Ace of Spades HQ

May 12, 2013

Gun Thread (5-12-2013)
— andy

Every Time The Mask Slips

An NJ senator was caught on a hot mic saying they needed a bill that was going to confiscate guns and demeaning the efforts of gun rights groups that want to focus on effective crime prevention measures.

The discussion reveals absolute contempt for the Second Amendment and those who exercise it, as well as complete ignorance of the fact that gun rights organizations like ANJRPC have long advocated for clear and specific legislation punishing criminals who misuse firearms, instead of misguided legislation (like the bills currently being pushed by Senate Democrats) that demonizes hardware.

The bill's being considered tomorrow. If you're in NJ, you might want to lob in a call to your senator.

Westford MA Anti-Gun Selectman Unceremoniously Dumped

You may remember this story from a few months back, when a loony left selectman proposed an "assault weapons" and magazine ban in the wake of Newtown. The resulting backlash kept the ban from moving forward, but it seems the good citizens of Westford weren't quite done.

Jefferies [the gun grabber --andy], who has served the town for more than 20 years, received the least number of votes -- 1,206.

Also from here in MA, the Town of Sudbury soundly defeated an anti-2A town bylaw proposal, and the Massachusetts Gun Owner's Action League (GOAL) is seeing significant membership growth.

Lesson for progtards everywhere: you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - New York: Off-Duty Police Officer Shoots Alleged Intruder - wgrz.com/news/article/2Â… #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @wgrz)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) May 10, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Smith & Wesson Model 1, which was introduced in 1857. Little did those folks in Springfield, MA realize that in a short 150 years their company would be headquartered in one of the most anti-gun states in the country.

Marriage Proposal At The Range

Ring, hell. Slip a trigger on that finger ...

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 06:07 AM | Comments (154)
Post contains 401 words, total size 5 kb.

1 We need a bill here making it a felony to be a Democrat or vote for a Democrat.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 06:11 AM (53z96)

2 Bang!

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 06:12 AM (sdi6R)

3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrMqpfgTN0M Alex Jones is brilliant!

Posted by: biscuits mahoney at May 12, 2013 06:13 AM (avEon)

4 Thanks Andy.

Went to the range yesterday to break in the newly acquired shootin iron. Even walked in by happenstance with the guy who had bought a rifle from me the day before. And other than the classrooms, the range was CLOSED for the weekend, for repairs.

No one could have been more disappointed.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 06:16 AM (4Mv1T)

5 Deselectman. Perfect

Posted by: scampydog at May 12, 2013 06:17 AM (2SXc9)

6 Â“We needed a bill that was going to confiscate, confiscate, confiscate.Â” - And the same for your other rights if they can do it.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 12, 2013 06:18 AM (DF1T9)

7 that hot mic slip is about the same kinda thing they say about taxes too. "what are they gonna do? not pay? fk it, raise it"

Posted by: Bigby's Whistling Fingers at May 12, 2013 06:18 AM (7a3kZ)

8 aw that was so sweet.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 12, 2013 06:18 AM (GVxQo)

9 "The bill's being considered tomorrow. If you're in NJ, you might want to lob in a call to your senator."

Why would they have to? They got a Republican Governor that will veto it right?

Posted by: lowandslow at May 12, 2013 06:18 AM (Fz2C7)

10 Karina is cute. And a pretty good shot, apparently.

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 06:18 AM (sdi6R)

11 remember to check out gunssavelives.net daily for information on how guns save lives & how the left is trying to take away our 2nd amendment right

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 12, 2013 06:20 AM (GVxQo)

12 Alex Jones is brilliant!

If by "brilliant" you mean "violent, opportunistic, and unethical" then sure.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at May 12, 2013 06:20 AM (QTHTd)

13 Range day here! The Grumpy Grandma is gonna try her hand at shooting clays. The Cranky Girl is all pissy cause she's too broke to buy a couple of boxes of .40 to shoot so shes stuck shooting clays. Bwahahahahahahahaha...

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 12, 2013 06:21 AM (2aCBB)

14 So. Got a new Glock. First one actually. Comes with a synthetic brush, as did my recent Springfield acquisitions. Any issues using a conventional wire bore brush instead?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 06:22 AM (4Mv1T)

15
If you're in NJ, you might want to lob in a call to your senator.

Why? New Jersey has a conservative Republican Governor. He told me so.

Surely he'll veto the bill?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 12, 2013 06:23 AM (kdS6q)

16 After "gun crime" comes "knife crime" as in the UK. After "knife crime" comes "hand crime". And thought crime. Of course they already do go after that as much as they can. Social peace though "reasonable, common sense" concessions to liberals is a plan that regularly fails. Because they don't want peace. They want to drive us into a ghetto socially and end us physically. (With mass immigration and forced integration to eliminate the conservative base as an identifiable group.) When people have a vision of a future without you, they're not interested in peace. Peace means no more opposition to them. That's where they are at. They want to "confiscate, confiscate, confiscate," and never mind anything that says they can't.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 12, 2013 06:28 AM (DF1T9)

17 Really mess with the gun grabbbers. Ask them their stance on the Wave Motion Gun. Bet DiFi and others will start babbling about how dangerous it is and should not be in civilian hands. Record and act like a serious reporter. Get that drivel on tape. And then tell the idiots its just a science fiction weapon from an anime - Space Battleship Yamato.

http://youtu.be/0f3g3kj3Xp8

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2013 06:29 AM (k9TQr)

18 7 that hot mic slip is about the same kinda thing they say about taxes too. "what are they gonna do? not pay? fk it, raise it" - Exactly.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 12, 2013 06:29 AM (DF1T9)

19 The Fat Man is big gun grabber so he will veto nothing.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 06:30 AM (53z96)

20 Happy Mother's Day. http://tinyurl.com/cez4own

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 06:30 AM (sdi6R)

21 ...Bwahahahahahahahaha... Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead

That's funny. Hope there's a happy Mothers Day at the Jarhead family range outing.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 06:31 AM (4Mv1T)

22 Man with a knife takes man with gun within twenty feet. Fact. Sure guns sound all cool, and hell are just awesome in games and on film. But the reality just ain't so great. Just how many times did those TRAINED NY police officers miss in the last shoot out? Once again, man with a knife takes out man with a gun within twenty feet. Which makes me wonder how true to life the James Coburn knife gun scene was in the Magnificent Seven. Don't even have to throw a knife or shuriken, they are really distraction weapons not death stars, just a handful of coins gives enough time to move due to the flinch reaction. Guns are nice toys at best.

Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 06:31 AM (G6kli)

23 Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 12, 2013 10:21 AM (2aCBB)

Good price for .40 S and W.

http://tinyurl.com/clmadcl

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 12, 2013 06:32 AM (O6Tmi)

24 Gun control? Let me tell you someth- Ooo! Donuts!!!

Posted by: The Fat Man at May 12, 2013 06:33 AM (G9qZk)

25 Any issues using a conventional wire bore brush instead? Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 10:22 AM (4Mv1T) Wire brushes can damage the bore. Use them ONLY if you have serious fouling to deal with and use them ONLY IN ONE DIRECTION. All of my cleaning kits (I'm over 55) have come with non-metallic brushes for normal cleaning.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 06:33 AM (tOkJB)

The only way to ever protect YOUR rights as a citizen is for YOU to stand up and protect them.

The political class these days could care less about what you really think, and will only react out of fear of losing their phoney-baloney jobs.

We now live in a country where a good part of the population WANTS a velvet straightjacket put on, and to be fed pablum 3 times a day and watch blithering idiocy on a big screen TeeVee. And to talk to their fellow blithering idiots on their cell phones.

Irrefutable evidence: Joe Biden is Vice - President.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 06:35 AM (I2uSp)

27 "Because they don't want peace. They want to drive us into a ghetto socially and end us physically. (With mass immigration and forced integration to eliminate the conservative base as an identifiable group.)" Somebody is all ginned up this fine morning. Your own politicians want to eliminate you, except as voting block. YOU ARE IN THE SAME FUCKING BOAT AS LIBERALS AND MINORITIES! Face it, we the people don't mean shit, to our political and corporate masters.

Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 06:35 AM (G6kli)

Meet the Depressed with David Gregory is flaming skull worthy. Pickering said they were only mandated to look at security levels at the consulate and nothing else . His nose is out of joint and he is being used by the Administration. He was under the impression that Congress had access to all the interviews and names the report he generated created, and they did not. He looked genuinely surprised when Issa told them he did not have that.

Remember the White House had an "off the record" meeting with the press last week about Benghazi. I think they were getting their story straight with the press.

The press is only covering this now because they are going to sacrifice Nuland to save Clinton. That will be the story.

Some please wake Boehner the fuck up. This is worse than Watergate because there is a body count. But it is not like Watergate because his own political party is giving cover and so is the press

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:35 AM (nH8jP)

29 Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 10:31 AM (G6kli) Yeah, yeah. Let's stand twenty feet apart. I'll point a gun at you. You point a knife at me. Let's see who- Ooo!!! Chili cheese fries!

Posted by: The Fat Man at May 12, 2013 06:36 AM (G9qZk)

Pickering admitted they never looked at the talking points, the purposeful misinformation or the reason for it.

They never looked at the cover up, of why Stevens was in Benghazi

they only looked at if security at the consulate was sufficient, it wasn't and they recommended two people be fired

they never looked at why it was not sufficient, or the cover up or why there was a cover up

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:37 AM (nH8jP)

31 Cute how the 'Yes' target was so much bigger than the 'no' target. The Brady Campaign just released a study that when both partners in a marriage are armed they 2,122 percent more likely to be shot with their own guns. Proposal at the range is double plus ungood. Or something. Mornin' all.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 06:38 AM (Wl/Ht)

32 Just how many times did those TRAINED NY police officers miss in the last shoot out?

Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 10:31 AM (G6kli)

NY cops are not trained. If you knew anything about how they qualify you wouldn't have written this ignorant comment.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 12, 2013 06:38 AM (O6Tmi)

33 Just how many times did those TRAINED NY police officers miss in the last shoot out? I think that modern hiring practices may have played a part in that. Plus, I'm sure there's lots of NYC cops who stay on the job without the required range time. After all, we're talking NYC.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 06:38 AM (tOkJB)

34 BTW anyone know where that Libyan stockpile of Uranium yellowcake went? Or those drums of mustard gas? Or all those MANPADS [SA-7 and SA-14]? From the bad old Gaddafi days? Someone ask Nuland that before she falls in an elevator shaft.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2013 06:38 AM (k9TQr)

thunderb, you are watching NBC.

Bad , bad girl.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 06:39 AM (I2uSp)

36 Any issues using a conventional wire bore brush instead? Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 10:22 AM (4Mv1T) Have never needed a wire brush for my Glock or any other wrenches in the safe. Should be good to go with the brush you have. Congrats on the acquisition.

Posted by: scampydog at May 12, 2013 06:39 AM (2SXc9)

37 NJ gun ban?
I'm sure Chris Christie will veto this legislation. Oh, wait...

Posted by: Attila at May 12, 2013 06:39 AM (Cs2tJ)

doing the jobs Americans won't do I guess

somebody has to keep an eye on the enemy

they will tell you what they are going to do

they are going to sacrifice Nuland to save Clinton and as for the rest they are going to yell "SHUT UP"

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:40 AM (nH8jP)

39 >>>Wire brushes can damage the bore I am wondering why so many are still commercially available in the shops?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 06:40 AM (4Mv1T)

40 and I am a bad bad girl ;0

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:41 AM (nH8jP)

All that stuff from the Khaddafy, Gaddafi (whatever!) days?

Why, it's all gone down the memory hole.

Forward!!

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 06:41 AM (I2uSp)

42 Have never needed a wire brush for my Glock or any other wrenches in the safe. Should be good to go with the brush you have. Congrats on the acquisition.

Posted by: scampydog at May 12, 2013 10:39 AM (2SXc9)

This. Use the nylon bush NOT a wire brush in yo'Glock.

Posted by: Attila at May 12, 2013 06:42 AM (Cs2tJ)

comparing the bombing to the Marine barracks in Lebanon to Benghazi now

he is their Reagan

they are going to smother the story

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:42 AM (nH8jP)

44 I love that proposal. Made OSP tear up a bit.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at May 12, 2013 06:42 AM (XIxXP)

45 Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 10:31 AM (G6kli) Those 'trained' officers may go high speed low drag elite tactitcal training with about 200 rounds per year. Average CCW holder burns through that before their first cup of coffee during their multiple visits to the range.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 06:42 AM (Wl/Ht)

Irrefutable evidence: Joe Biden is Vice - President.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 10:35 AM (I2uSp)

-------

Which also proves the fix was in-- if you were worried about getting re-elected, would you leave that idiot on the ticket?

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 12, 2013 06:43 AM (5wHPS)

47 Did y'all notice whose photo the pistol-photo on this article points at on the Blog front-page? Delicious!

Posted by: MtTB at May 12, 2013 06:43 AM (xehjI)

48 Is Ace missing us yet?

Posted by: Waldo at May 12, 2013 06:43 AM (sXWmd)

49 Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 10:42 AM (nH8jP) In "83" they didn't know any better or at least they can pretend like they didn't. "2013?" yeah, they knew better.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at May 12, 2013 06:44 AM (XIxXP)

50 44 I love that proposal. Made OSP tear up a bit. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at May 12, 2013 10:42 AM (XIxXP) RWC consults AoSHQ stylebook. RWC sees no rule against referring to yourself in third person. RWC is sad. RWC moves to make a motion.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 06:45 AM (Wl/Ht)

51 @9

lol

Mosin update: both rifles (91, 44) still covered in cosmoline. I know it's no excuse, but I've been sick as a dog for the past several days. Maybe next week.

The cock-gobbling troll makes its first appearance within 25 minutes of the front-page post--during a weekend post, no less. Is that some sort of record?

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's hi-cap assault diaphragm at May 12, 2013 06:45 AM (7xeJQ)

52 OK, that Alex Jones video is fucking hilarious.

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 06:45 AM (sdi6R)

53 Anyone report the bad, sad news that "1600 Penn" got cancelled?

Ha! That was a trick question: It is neither sad nor bad news.

I said even before a single episode aired that it was going to be a cold pile of dog diarrhea. A thinly-disguised, wish-casting biopic of how clever, hip and funny life in the JEF's White House is.

Posted by: RoyalOil at May 12, 2013 06:46 AM (VjL9S)

54 ...I am wondering why so many are still commercially available in the shops? Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 10:40 AM (4Mv1T) Me too, after the many, many places I've read they can cause bore damage. I guess it's there for the person who fires of a thousand rounds and puts the weapon away without cleaning it. Months later they have a serious crud problem to deal with. Apparently the easiest way to damage the bore with a metal brush is to use it in a back-and-forth motion, like a scrub brush. From what I've read a metal brush is the last resort and bore damage can be minimized (maybe eliminated?) by using the brush IN ONLY ONE DIRECTION.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 06:47 AM (tOkJB)

can David Brooks be dropped into a volcano

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:48 AM (nH8jP)

thunderb, you have corrupted me. Now I am watching "Meet the Press".

It's fascinating watching this unravel.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 06:48 AM (I2uSp)

57 he is advising the JEF on what to do, cause he is helpful and shit

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:49 AM (nH8jP)

58
There was an interesting infographic in an otherwise hysterically anti-gun article in Wired a few months ago.

The graphic looked at US ammo imports and exports. Russia is the largest exporter to the US, AK ammo I assume. But right behind is South Korea. In which case, why hasn't South Korean ammo flooded in to supply the current ammo feeding frenzy? They can do it with cars and cellphones, what's holding up the brass?

Second slide: "America the Ammo Dealer"
http://tinyurl.com/abfocmt

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 12, 2013 06:49 AM (kdS6q)

59 sorry. I was sacrificing myself, save yourself

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:49 AM (nH8jP)

In 1983, the Reagan administration SHOULD have know better, after the Embassy seizure in Tehran. in 1979.

We keep making the same mistakes, for the same reasons.

The appearance of normal.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at May 12, 2013 06:51 AM (I2uSp)

61
    Wire is used on bore brushes because it is ridiculously cheap.   However, nearly all modern brushes are brass (in the better gun kits).

   It is not necessary to brush a barrel each time after shooting, just a couple of patches saturated with Hoppes will do just fine. Maybe ONCE yearly with the bore brush should be done.

   Been doing it that way since forever, I've never had any issues.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 12, 2013 06:51 AM (SAMxH)

I posted this earlier in the week, but it is worthy of the gun thread as well. This interview with the parents of one of the Seals killed in the helo crash last year in Afghanistan is amazing.

http://tinyurl.com/cewegqd

If the father isn't part of the horde, then we need to do some outreach here. Its the best interview I've seen on the news in a long time.

Posted by: BunkerintheBurbs at May 12, 2013 06:52 AM (X3xYu)

63 Gun barrels (and therefore the bores) are made from machined steel, usually the tempered and hardened flavor. How does running a fine steel wire brush through it damage it?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 12, 2013 06:53 AM (XFYiQ)

64 One of the beefs at my range, is that it must be open to the public because it is on public land - "the public" signs out a key from the Police Dept for a day. Unfortunately, as there is no on-duty range officer, this leads to a lot of vandalism and trash... outhouse shot full of holes, handicapped parking signs used as targets, steel target frames shot to pieces and left lying, wood target backers shot to pieces with shotguns and the hulls left all over even though shotguns are not to be used in the rifle and pistol ranges, household garbage overflowing from our range garbage cans, etc. All the other bitches aside, the serious club members (like me) can be challenged just to go out to the range on a Sunday and put up a target for some practice or sight-in.

One thing I did was to make my own cheap, portable target stand from 2" PVC pipe. You can make it from cheaper ABS too, but it can be hard to find if your locality has "banned" ABS pipe, like mine has. This type of stand is really easy to put together, and if you glue it securely you can fill it with water to weigh it down if you are in a windy locality. Use 2"x2"s in the uprights. Directions are easy to find, here is one :

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/02/ build-a-simple-portable-pvc-target-stand/

Just remember to use 2" instead of 1 1/2", and glue it well to make it water-tight... and remove the space between / and build in the link.

Posted by: Avuncular Buckular at May 12, 2013 06:53 AM (qpKel)

65 >>>minimized (maybe eliminated?) by using the brush IN ONLY ONE DIRECTION.

The old man taught me that long ago so I am good to go. It is damn near impossible to change direction mid bore with a wire brush anyway.

Maybe this explains why I think my guns are nver clean. If I run the wire brush through a "clean" bore, the patches always come out dirty on the next pass. Maybe it's not residue from the fired rounds, but I'm scrapping away at the actual BORE??!!

Egads.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 06:53 AM (4Mv1T)

66 I don't recall a cover-up over the Beirut Barracks Bombing. Or people in the process screaming 'we need air support' and getting denied.

Posted by: zsasz at May 12, 2013 06:54 AM (MMC8r)

67 I thought the wire brushes are made of bronze, which is softer than steel.

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 06:56 AM (sdi6R)

68 @54

I think the trick with the wire brush is to twist while pushing/pulling through the barrel and maintaining that direction of twist from beginning to end.

I'm too much of a fraidy cat to use bore brushes. In fact, I've screwed up the blueing a the end of the barrel of my almost new 22/45 the one damn time I've used one.

So, I've procured some GunSlick foaming bore cleaner and the appropriate size bore snakes for my next outing. The combination of the foaming cleaner (which penetrates for ~15 minutes) and the bore snake (which has some interwoven brass strands which act as a brush) is supposed to do the trick.

Whenever I get back to the range, I shall make a full report.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's hi-cap assault diaphragm at May 12, 2013 06:59 AM (7xeJQ)

69 Ahhhh. That proposal was sweet.

Posted by: Tuna at May 12, 2013 06:59 AM (M/TDA)

David Gregory had a nice dramatic slide show of terrorist attacks over the years with a body count on each one and was basically asking, "whats the big deal, it was only four dead people!"

Pickering started to ssay this, but his belief was that the plan for the guys in Tripoli worked. He didn't expand his remarks, but I guess he believes that since they stayed in Tripoli instead of going to Benghazi as requested, they didn't loose anybody in Tripoli.

The argument is like the "jobs created/saved" metric. They aren't going to look at who died, but who didn't die. The new argument is this happens in every administration, it wasn't a lot of dead people, and it could have been worse. And sacrifice Nuland for the talking points coverup, as if the JEF had nothing to do with that and couldn't directed her to tell the truth

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 06:59 AM (nH8jP)

71 All the wire brushes I have owned, and I have some OLD ones in multiple calibers from dad and grand dad are all copper/brass/possibly bronze in appearance. None steel.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 07:00 AM (4Mv1T)

72 @ 65

Nah, TR--just residue from the lands. Takes several wet patches to get it all. Relax.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 12, 2013 07:01 AM (SAMxH)

73 I don't think I have ever seen a steel bore brush.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 07:03 AM (53z96)

74 What we have this week is the fullest realization of the Left's Grand Unified Theory of Statecraft--they will do as they damn well please. One principle has already been established with the IRS and Benghazi--that Democrats in government can launch the Spanish Inquisition on you anytime they care, but their administrations will be and must be taken at their word, always, and that is just the way it is going to be. Period. But there is another principle we might see play out, and it regards DD and the 3-D printer gun. I have little doubts there is or was at least one State Department staffer desiring to see if criminal prosecution could be made for ITAR violations, even though I do not believe in this case DD was involved in foreign commerce. My belief behind this is that, just like with the IRS questions, State wishes to know how DD arrived at its decision making process for releasing the blueprints, a possible prelude to ITAR charges even though DD may not have been involved, as I said, in foreign sales. And this brings up the second principle of Democratic governance--the common people will be responsible, all the time, for obeying whichever of the thousands and tens of thousands of laws a bureaucrat might think applicable, even if arbitrary and fanciful in jurisdiction, but if a Democrat in government violates the rules--says harasses whistle-blowers--nothing will happen. Ever. Period. In other words, in Barack Obama's America, you are guilty until you can prove to a bureaucrat you are innocent, and a Democrat in government is always innocent. Period.

Posted by: T. at May 12, 2013 07:04 AM (VjdcT)

75 @64

Thanks for the links. Building a collapsible PVC stand is yet another project I've been putting off.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's hi-cap assault diaphragm at May 12, 2013 07:05 AM (7xeJQ)

76 Actually found some 45 ACP ammo at Academy yesterday. First time they haven't been out when I checked. I had to explain to the clerk that ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol and that full metal jacket means that the lead isn't exposed when you look at the round.

Posted by: An Observation at May 12, 2013 07:06 AM (ylhEn)

Enemies list? Z Street, the pro-Israel PAC just filed suit against the IRS for the same scrutiny and prosecution as the tea party groups

He has an enemies list and is using the IRS to attack them. Nixonian, but with press cover and a party that does not care

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 07:07 AM (nH8jP)

78 Karina & Dean - Gun Love.

Posted by: dissent555 at May 12, 2013 07:09 AM (yR6A1)

79 44 I love that proposal. Made OSP tear up a bit. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at May 12, 2013 10:42 AM (XIxXP) RWC consults AoSHQ stylebook. RWC sees no rule against referring to yourself in third person. RWC is sad. RWC moves to make a motion. Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 10:45 AM (Wl/Ht) You know, OSP never talks about OSP in third person. I don't know why OSP would do that. Osp won't do that anymore, OSP promises. I'm leaving for an advance Ultrasound testing nuke school for a couple of weeks. I will be out circulation. Happy Mothers day to the Ettes, Miss use guys, Later.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at May 12, 2013 07:09 AM (XIxXP)

80 Oh, and not sorry to see that Rock Center is going buh-bye. I never really watched it though. It seemed to me that that name of the show was just too pretentious. And the fact that Brian Williams helmed it didn't help either.

Posted by: dissent555 at May 12, 2013 07:12 AM (yR6A1)

81 Thunderb gonna miss OSP. Thunderb always reads what OSP write. Thunderb will eagerly await OSP's return. Why does Thunderb sound like Tonto.

Posted by: thunderb at May 12, 2013 07:13 AM (nH8jP)

82 Later OSP. Safe travels. Come back smart. ..er.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 07:13 AM (4Mv1T)

83 79 -

That was Karina and Dean, with an ampersand. What, is the ampersand an outlawed character now?

Posted by: dissent555 at May 12, 2013 07:14 AM (yR6A1)

84 My basic perusal of the news shows this morning just confirms my belief that the networks and the journalists are the enemy. I will no longer watch them. My 9 year old lies to me better than these asshats. The burning times cannot come quick enough for me.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 12, 2013 07:16 AM (jucos)

85 >>>What, is the ampersand an outlawed character now?

The ampersand opens an inter-dimensional portal to ancient CAC posts at the HQ.

So its use has been restricted.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 07:17 AM (4Mv1T)

86 Book thread up, for the more cerebral morons.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 07:18 AM (4Mv1T)

87 Truck Monkey is also concerned about commenters referring to themselves in the third person. Truck Monkey will endeavour to NOT refer to himself in such a manner.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 12, 2013 07:19 AM (jucos)

88 As regards the "knife vs. gun within 20 ft." debate, here is a relevant article about kukri bearing Nepalese gurkas. Some have been known to cut off a leg or even a head with this type of knife. One got in to trouble when he decapitated a Taliban chief recently, and thus fell afoul of Geneva conventions.

http://tinyurl.com/cjl2m6d

Posted by: navybrat at May 12, 2013 07:20 AM (+Nm5c)

89 I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, but I'm currently doing an interesting project at work. I'm scanning pages from a book of drawings by Edward M. Boxer from the 1860s. They look like they may be patent drawings or something. They're all about fuzes, cartridges, shells, signal rockets, powder magazines, and all kinds of splodey stuff. I'm really enjoying it. The book has no title, and the owner thinks that it may be the only copy in existence. It's about 10" tall and 24" wide, so I have to scan each page in pieces and assemble them in Photoshop. Edward M. Boxer does not have a Wikipedia page of his own. I have found a couple of mentions, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_primer#Boxer_primer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell#British_artillery_adoption Hello? Boxer primer?

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 07:21 AM (sdi6R)

90 It is damn near impossible to change direction mid bore with a wire brush anyway. You can, with effort. Maybe that's why the barrel of my old .22 is shot out. ANYWAYS, you can push the brush down the bore from the breech end and after it pops out of the end of the barrel pull it back through in the opposite direction. THAT'S the way you're NOT supposed to do it. And most (if not all) bore brushes are mounted on a sleeve that allows it to rotate with the rifling as you push it down the bore. I don't think they'd do much good otherwise.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 07:21 AM (tOkJB)

91 Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 11:00 AM (4Mv1T) All the Hoppes pistol cleaning kits I have include a bore brush made with nylon bristles. I'll go 800 to 1,000 rds between cleanings and the nylon brushes clean everything up good as new FWIW

Posted by: Jake in ID at May 12, 2013 07:21 AM (zzeVM)

92 &&&&&&&&&&&&

Posted by: zsasz at May 12, 2013 07:28 AM (MMC8r)

93 My guns probably suffer more wear from cleaning than from actual use. I clean them ever time I shoot them, 'cause one time they went in the safe and didn't come back out for fifteen years. Which is another story.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 07:29 AM (4Mv1T)

94 Good travels OSP.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 07:30 AM (Wl/Ht)

95 The ampersand opens an inter-dimensional portal to ancient CAC posts at the HQ. So its use has been restricted. Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 11:17 AM (4Mv1T) &&&&& Opens inter-dimensional portal. Steps through. &&&&& Closes portal upon return. 'nope, they're just as screwed as we are. Except in that dimension I look like Scott Bakula and my iPad is named 'Ziggy.'

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 07:36 AM (Wl/Ht)

96 Edward M. Boxer does not have a Wikipedia page of his own. I have found a couple of mentions, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_primer#Boxer_primer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell#British_artillery_adoption Hello? Boxer primer? Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 11:21 AM (sdi6R) Good link to shrapnel shell. Most people don't know the origin of the term. And by most people, I'm including Air Force EOD techs, who told me I was full of shit when I explained it to them. They also told me I was full of shit when I told them the old WWII grenade looked like a pineapple so it would be easy to grasp in muddy conditions and the outside pattern did shit for fragmentation. I told them that only a pattern on the inside of an explosive will control fragmentation. So after they told me I was FOS I countered with the question "then why is the current issue grenade turned into a fragmentation grenade by covering it with a metal coil with scoring on its inside?" They grumbled as they told me I was still FOS, but a while later one tech took me aside and told me I was right and I should just ignore his fellow techs. EOD techs are taught tons of stuff (they have to have fantastic memories). Which makes me wonder why they apparently don't even mention the basics of fragmentation and how the term shrapnel came about during their training.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 07:36 AM (tOkJB)

97 Let me see... a bore brush made of bronze will damage a pistol bore - but shooting a box of FMJ through the same bore is no problem. Does no one see the cognitive disconnect here? Hello is this mike on?

Posted by: An Observation at May 12, 2013 07:39 AM (ylhEn)

98 @91

Makes sense. I think the only bore brushes I've ever used had fixed sleeves, though my newest one has the sleeve attached to a flexible cable.

My mistakes with my 22/45 were: a) going in muzzle-side (bad bad bad) and b) using a brush for .223 rather than .22. So, nobody do those things!

A) was due to my fear of disassembling my 22/45 following many, many horror stories (both from the Internet as well as meatspace) of getting this damned thing back together. This is why I'm hoping the foaming bore cleaner/bore snake/Ballistol swab combo will be my panacea.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's hi-cap assault diaphragm at May 12, 2013 07:49 AM (7xeJQ)

99 > 98 ... Does no one see the cognitive disconnect here? Hello is this mike on? Posted by: An Observation When you ask a gun question half the time the answer is a legend. The other half is false.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 12, 2013 07:50 AM (vHxiM)

100 Morn morons. I scored five pistols from an lawyer friend this weekend for a reasonable, not cheap, amount. A Walter 38 P-1, perfect condition, a SW 10 MM, SW 45, SW 357 and a Colt 22 Woodsman, which was over priced, but really cool! What I bought a 10mm for is beyond me, but alcohol was involved.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 07:55 AM (wR+pz)

101 I'm not going to did up my Glock manual....... but I think the barrels are polymer coated and they don't want that scrubbed off

Posted by: Jake in ID at May 12, 2013 07:56 AM (zzeVM)

102 Damn shame about that boating accident immediately afterwards, Billy Bob.

Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2013 07:57 AM (sdi6R)

103 Good morning RINOs I was thinking (yeah crazy huh) for those of you in the gun grab states..... Send your guns to me!! I'm a democrat, ill safeguard them for you Like I said, I'm a dem with aspirations for government office...YOU CAN TRUST ME Kimbers to the head of the line

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:01 AM (Yu5xN)

104 "When you ask a gun question half the time the answer is a legend. The other half is false.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 12, 2013 11:50 AM (vHxiM)"

--------------------------------

Words of wisdom, Lloyd. Words... of... wisdom.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 12, 2013 08:02 AM (celt+)

105 >>>but I think the barrels are polymer coated and they don't want that scrubbed of

I'm going to use the brush that came with the Glock and avoid issues. But I use new wire bore brush on my Colt 1911, and my AR, and 12 ga..

Can start using the Glock brush on my 1911 I imagine. The AR barrel is Montana stainless steel match barrel, so how bad could I screw that up?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 08:02 AM (4Mv1T)

106 A knife beats a gun under 20 feet? Pah!

Now, a crossbow, on the other hand...

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 12, 2013 08:04 AM (celt+)

107 Colt 22 Woodsman, which was over priced, but really cool!

If you got it for less that $1,200 you got,a deal.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 08:04 AM (53z96)

108 On bore brushes I've never heard of a steel one, only seen brass or copper I think it has to do with scratching and maybe sparks? Gunpowder and sparks? If I remember correctly they couldn't use steel near the 5" guns on the ship for that reason

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:05 AM (AsiVD)

109 Oh Happy back rub/orgasm day to the ettes

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:07 AM (AsiVD)

110 98 Let me see... a bore brush made of bronze will damage a pistol bore - but shooting a box of FMJ through the same bore is no problem. Does no one see the cognitive disconnect here? Hello is this mike on? Posted by: An Observation at May 12, 2013 11:39 AM (ylhEn) Both will do some damage to the bore. The question is, do you want to maximize or minimize the wear and tear on your barrel?

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 08:09 AM (tOkJB)

111 Nice haul Billy Bob. So are we now buying a larger house to contain all these ADDITIONAL weapons that were sadly lost at sea?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 08:09 AM (4Mv1T)

112 Hey Vic I'm going to break my personal barrier and go for a 1911 What should I expect to pay give or take $100

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:09 AM (AsiVD)

113 I got my "officer's model" used for $500 several years ago before I lost it in a tragic boating accident. Current prices will probably set you back $1,000 or more.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 08:14 AM (53z96)

114 >>>I'm going to break my personal barrier and go for a 191

Been pricing them very recently till I bought a G21, since I already have a Colt.

...if I may jump in.

Depending on bells, whistles... and just generally speaking.
Colt $1200
Ruger $750
Springfield $800?
Rock Island, Para, etc. ...less

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 08:14 AM (4Mv1T)

115 Thanks guys I'm going for a colt and it looks like it'll be a lot cheaper than the wife's Kimber We're switching over to .45 at casa de joe Except for her sig and a XDM of course 9mm is running out big time here and we have met guys at the range who are trading us a box of .45 for a box of 9mm It's insane

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:18 AM (mL7EQ)

116 If you got it for less that $1,200 you got,a deal. Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 12:04 PM (53z96) Well, shit Vic, I FEEL GOOD. I got it for $900.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 08:20 AM (wR+pz)

117 Well, shit Vic, I FEEL GOOD. I got it for $900.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 12:20 PM (wR+pz)

Those things are big time collector's items now and they are hard to find.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 08:23 AM (53z96)

118 112 Nice haul Billy Bob. So are we now buying a larger house to contain all these ADDITIONAL weapons that were sadly lost at sea? That's pretty close to true. Ten years ago I built a two car, two story, garage with a secret gun room and lots of space for my shit. Sons came home from grad school and promptly filled the entire place up. I have two much shit, even after the "Tragic Boat Accident".

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 08:24 AM (wR+pz)

119 Too much shit? As in too many guns? Is there such a thing? That's like too much bacon Doesn't exist

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:27 AM (mL7EQ)

120 114 I got my "officer's model" used for $500 several years ago before I lost it in a tragic boating accident. Current prices will probably set you back $1,000 or more. Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 12:14 PM (53z96) Holy smokes! I bought mine new, about 25 years ago, for around $450. To think it's worth $1,000 or more now boggles my mind.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 08:28 AM (tOkJB)

121 Son took an account, we have close to 100 weapons, so when they come to my house you will undoubtedly hear that I was a right wing gun nut. That will be pretty close to true. Did I mention I have one room just for ammo, which my worthless son has been stealing from me an shooting?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 08:28 AM (wR+pz)

122 insensitive qvc is selling pressure cookers.....i'm speechless

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 12, 2013 08:30 AM (GVxQo)

123 Vic got a discount on his 1911 since he was one of the original 'beta testers' for JMB.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 08:31 AM (Wl/Ht)

124 Did I mention I have one room just for ammo, which my worthless son has been stealing from me an shooting? Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 12:28 PM (wR+pz) Better than having a worthless son who steals your stash and smokes it.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 08:32 AM (tOkJB)

125 122. Damn, my hillbilly wife would leave me to live in your garage Steals your ammo? Hmmmm, wire coat hanger + his back? Works on my 11yo (For the record no I don't beat my kid)

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 12, 2013 08:32 AM (BKR67)

126 I bought mine new, about 25 years ago, for around $450. To think it's worth $1,000 or more now boggles my mind.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 12:28 PM (tOkJB)

And that is used.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 08:35 AM (53z96)

127 I got a "discount" because I bought it from my brother.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2013 08:36 AM (53z96)

128 Both will do some damage to the bore. The question is, do you want to maximize or minimize the wear and tear on your barrel?

Using a wire bore brush every 300 or so rounds is not going to make even one shot's difference in the life of the barrel. The damage of a low speed flexible wire brush through the bore is minuscule compared to the damage of an inflexible bullet at a thousand times the speed.

Don't agree? OK here is a conceptual test. Close your fist to leave an opening about the inside diameter of a pistol barrel. Run a bore brush through it. That is uncomfortable - but you aren't going to bleed from it. Now consider what shooting a bullet through that same bore would do to your hand.

Note for any KOS kids reading this post - don't actually shoot the bullet through your hand. You will have to have your hand amputated - which will mean you will have lost half of your potential sex partners if that happens.

Posted by: An Observation at May 12, 2013 08:37 AM (ylhEn)

129 Don't even have to throw a knife or shuriken, they are really distraction weapons not death stars, just a handful of coins gives enough time to move due to the flinch reaction. Guns are nice toys at best. Posted by: Bob Dole at May 12, 2013 10:31 AM (G6kli) Late to the party. A retired TX sheriff told us the same thing drunk one night. He feared a knife more than any gun. Said they trained with guys trying to get their guns out of their hostlers before a guy getting out of a car with a knife could kill them. Mostly they lost.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 08:37 AM (wR+pz)

130 Better than having a worthless son who steals your stash and smokes it. Posted by: Ed Anger at May 12, 2013 12:32 PM (tOkJB) Ha Ha. I have a friend who's son does that and he can't bitch cause he's not suppose to have the stash.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 08:38 AM (wR+pz)

131 Navycopjoe- Go for a Rock Island Arms mil-spec 1911. Usually under 500. 3 sizes, very good build. Very basic, but, dependable. Read good things about them, and do a search on youtube. Its all there. Best price on a 1911 I've seen yet...

Posted by: Mr Wolf at May 12, 2013 08:53 AM (UIAT6)

132 Regarding Kimber, i shot one and they're a dream. But i've heard that your paying a lot for the name. No dog in the fight, just commenting.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 09:05 AM (Wl/Ht)

133 Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 12, 2013 12:37 PM (wR+pz) Had a buddy (a cop) tell me once..."The only place I'll ever be cut is the cheeks of my ass."

Posted by: BignJames at May 12, 2013 09:13 AM (Sg0G/)

134 Alright all, grillin' time. Gotta love shrimp you havento cut with a knife. Happy Mothers Day all.

Posted by: RWC at May 12, 2013 09:17 AM (Wl/Ht)

135 A question for collectors. I got another couple of P64s, a 1968 and a 1970, (both with the smaller round hammer, but that's not important right now). The bluing on the the 1970 has developed a strong reddish patina on the slide. Not on the frame, interestingly enough. The finish is not pitted or scratched, just more reddish than black. Is this a bad thing? Good? Or irrelevant?

Posted by: toby928© at May 12, 2013 09:31 AM (QupBk)

136 Only thing that hangs me up about RIA 1911's is I think they are made in the Phillipines. Ruger made here for $750.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 09:36 AM (4Mv1T)

137 I'm thinking of getting a Sig Sauer P290 - any opinions/thoughts/comments?

Posted by: Former Lurker at May 12, 2013 09:46 AM (Yoym7)

138 >>>Sig Sauer P290 - any opinions/thoughts/comments?

Not familiar with that Sig. specs say 2.9" barrel and 6 shot 9MM.

Shoot some subcompacts before you buy, if you can.

I got an XDS in trade and was all jazzed since it is the latest greatest single stack subcompact.

3.3 " barrel, five shots .45acp. I hated it and sold. Bought an XDm compact 45 with 3.8" barrel, and 9 or 13 shots. Felt more confident with more mag capacity. Took it to the range and couldn't hit squat. It was me, not the gun. Traded it, too. I am carrying full sized Glock

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 09:59 AM (4Mv1T)

139 Thanks, TR. I've got a Glock 22 but want something a little smaller for ccw. I'm thinking about the Glock 26 or 27, but also considered the P290 and the Berretta Nano. But, you're right - I need to see if I can at least get my hands on them - shooting them would better - before buying. Thanks!

Posted by: Former Lurker at May 12, 2013 10:30 AM (Yoym7)

140 Lurker- I think my problem is I am not used to those triggers. I have shot primarily SandW revolvers, and Colt 1911.

The safe action triggers are just different and I need to warm up to them.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 10:34 AM (4Mv1T)

141 if you're shooting solid lead bullets, running a few jacketed ones through at the end of the session makes cleaning the barrel much easier

embarrassed how long it took me to figure that out

Posted by: steve l. at May 12, 2013 10:36 AM (R0MFk)

142 @140

You may want to investigate the Ruger LC9 which I plan to use as my CCW piece. I've not yet fired +P hollowpoints through it but it feels fine with standard 115gr ball ammo.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's hi-cap assault diaphragm at May 12, 2013 11:14 AM (7xeJQ)

143

Thanks, Sandra - I'll look into that one, too!

TR - yeah, those Glock triggers take some getting used to. I'm new at this and have run less than 500 rounds through mine, but I'm getting better! I find myself anticipating the trigger release though, and that's screwing up my aim. Practice, practice, practice...

steve l - Wow - I didn't know there was anything but FMJ rounds made. I learn something new every day!

Posted by: Former Lurker at May 12, 2013 01:50 PM (Yoym7)

144 >>>Wow - I didn't know there was anything but FMJ rounds made. I learn something new every day!

Primarily reloads, I believe.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 12, 2013 02:01 PM (4Mv1T)

145 Oh - I haven't bought any of those, though with the cost of new .40S&W rounds, I've been thinking about it. That's good to know. Thanks!

Posted by: Former Lurker at May 12, 2013 02:23 PM (Yoym7)

146 Chromoly Many @ 16-
I have never heard it said better. That little paragraph should be in every home, office, classroom, and public place in America. What you wrote is exactly what the left plans for us.

Posted by: EROWMER at May 12, 2013 02:39 PM (kxlCQ)

147 An Observation @ 77-
Was that on South Broadway between (here) and Jacksonville? 100 rounds for about $44?

Posted by: EROWMER at May 12, 2013 02:49 PM (kxlCQ)

148 So, no knowledge on the red patina? I always figured I could moron-source any question.

Posted by: toby928© at May 12, 2013 05:05 PM (QupBk)

149 Googling around seems to suggest that the correct term is plum patina.

Posted by: toby928© at May 12, 2013 05:19 PM (QupBk)

150 Why? New Jersey has a conservative Republican Governor. He told me so.

Surely he'll veto the bill?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 12, 2013 10:23 AM (kdS6q)

Does he have enough votes in the legislature to prevent an over ride. I don't know much about NJ, but that is a pretty common feature of constitutions.

Posted by: jbarntt at May 12, 2013 05:42 PM (UNFot)

151 149 So, no knowledge on the red patina?

Basically a slooooow rust. Either a bad bluing or poor surface prep.

It's only going to get worse, but slooooow.

Posted by: trainer says LIB at May 12, 2013 05:48 PM (eVgJn)

152 Basically a slooooow rust. Interesting. It's as shiny as any weapon I own though. Not even a tiny pit to be seen. And it's perfectly uniform, save for the anti-glare hashing on top.

Posted by: toby928© at May 12, 2013 05:54 PM (QupBk)

153 Note for any KOS kids reading this post - don't actually shoot the bullet through your hand. You will have to have your hand amputated - which will mean you will have lost half of your potential sex partners if that happens.

Posted by: An Observation at May 12, 2013 12:37 PM (ylhEn)

Now you tell me.

Posted by: Lefty at May 12, 2013 05:56 PM (UNFot)

154 Gun Tests reviewed the Sig Sauer P290RS-9-BSS 9mm Para, $758, in the Nov 2012 issue. Our Team Said: We didnÃ•t really like the Sig, but you might. The make has a reputation for good workmanship and decent accuracy, but you sure pay for it. This gun cost well over twice the price of the Kel-Tec. Is it twice the gun? We donÃ•t think so. The ergonomics of this one left us in the lurch with one exception. With the 8-round magazine in it, we could get all our fingers onto the grip, and that gave us superior control. However, as noted, there goes your concealability. In light if its extra cost, extra weight, and our intense dislike of its grip, weÃ•d pass on it.

Posted by: GT-Editor at May 13, 2013 11:45 AM (YuPw1)

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