Ace of Spades HQ

May 05, 2013

Gun Thread (5-4-2013)
— andy

4th Circuit Rules Open Carry Isn't Probable Cause

Interesting case. The person whose sentence was vacated was actually violating some laws (at least possession of a firearm by a convicted felon and concealed carry with no license), but the court held that he was illegally searched.

You mean the police just can't frisk you because you look suspicious? Who knew?

WaPo's Lame Hit Piece On Wayne LaPierre

Obviously timed to coincide with the NRA Annual Meeting, the Washington Post trotted out a ridiculous hit on Wayne LaPierre on Friday.

The legislative changes that LaPierre supported as the NRAÂ’s chief lobbyist in the mid-1980s opened the door to the import of military-surplus weapons, which effectively had been banned for two decades. The legislation helped make a new, more powerful class of firearms more readily available to civilian gun owners and begin to shift the profile of American gun ownership.

You know what gun the eeevillll Wayne LaPierre was trying to import? The M1 Garand.

The federal government has, for decades now, sold M1 Garands and other guns to the public through the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The legislative changes LaPierre supported were simply to allow a bunch of Garands stranded in Korea after the war to be brought back to the U.S. and sold to collectors here.

Go and read the whole thing for an example of a really shitty piece of anti-gun advocacy masquerading as journalism.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - FL: Armed robbers exchange gunfire with gas station manager - articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-29/newÂ… #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @sunsentinel)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) April 30, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Model 1873 "Trapdoor" Springfield in .45-70. Or, as liberals call it, an AR-15.

3D Printed Gun Arrives

Defense Distributed will be hanging the files for its prototype on the web soon. They need to be downloaded heavily by everyone and tinkered with if you have an aptitude.

"Gun control" is idiotic. A gun is just a simple machine, and anyone who wants one will always be able to get one. Kudos to Cody Wilson for pushing this point to the next level.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 06:14 AM | Comments (173)
Post contains 432 words, total size 5 kb.

1 aaaaah. Finally lemur free content. Happy Sunday Andy

Posted by: L, elle at May 05, 2013 06:19 AM (0PiQ4)

2 WaPo links??? Really? No thanks, I've encountered enough dog shit today already.

Posted by: My Sharia Moor at May 05, 2013 06:19 AM (liORJ)

3 I want an Ar-15 in .45-70....

of course rather than the '73 TD S Ar-15 I am leaning towards a Marlin '95 AR-15

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:20 AM (LRFds)

4 1 Elle,

Blasted King Julian keeps getting *my* press....

Raccoon powers activate

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:21 AM (LRFds)

5 re:You know what gun the eeevillll Wayne LaPierre was trying to import? The M1 Garand.

From what I've read those M1s were shot out, shot up, used up, worn out left overs, not new. Is that true?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at May 05, 2013 06:22 AM (Mf3pg)

6 5 Skandia Recluse,

absolutely true but they are historical keepsakes and could be civilian FTRd....

Same with M1 carbines.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:24 AM (LRFds)

7 Good morning fellow gun nutz.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 05, 2013 06:24 AM (tOkJB)

8 I wouldn't go to WaPo for any reason. They don't deserve the page views, and I have no interest in what they've got to say, on Any Subject.

Posted by: TheTruth at May 05, 2013 06:24 AM (iHeMr)

9 so I was at Wright-Patt's gun counter yesterday....

They have Walther PPXs on sale for 445 bucks...

and a Steyr M-9 for ~525...

gotta admit I am digging the Steyr's sight picture.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:26 AM (LRFds)

10 Guns? Woke up next to one. Two, actually.

Posted by: Socktopus at May 05, 2013 06:26 AM (1FLBb)

11 What you got on my watermelon, homie?

Posted by: Lemur at May 05, 2013 06:26 AM (p+INL)

12 11 Lemur,

enjoy the limelight imposter...my sugar cube silliness had them in stitches for years...

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:27 AM (LRFds)

13 My go-to caliber for monkey-rats is .45-70.

Posted by: Fritz at May 05, 2013 06:28 AM (G9Mmf)

14 Gun thread before book thread? Or is it book thread before gaming thread? I'm confused

Posted by: Tuna at May 05, 2013 06:29 AM (M/TDA)

15 13 Fritz,

Heh and a fine one it is... I like the Modern Marlin with the Picatinny on top....

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:29 AM (LRFds)

16 Please don't omit JPFO when it comes time to join up. Their videos, "No Guns for Negroes", and "No Guns for Jews" should shut the mouths of the banners so hard their teeth will rattle. jpfo.org

Posted by: Thorvald at May 05, 2013 06:30 AM (1V6Pv)

17 I just learned from the ABC Radio report on the NRA convention that they sell all sorts of automatic weapons there.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 06:30 AM (/WLC3)

18 Unfortunately Fair Use doesn't allow copying the whole POS, but they hit all the high points: 1) A quote from the Violence Policy Center that *shock* disagrees with what LaPierre & Co. did. 2) They conflate the M1 Garand with the M1 Carbine and claim that the latter is being used in crimes a lot, which I'd find shocking. 3) They falsely imply (and you can see the beginnings of this in the quote above) that the demand for EBRs and other semiauto firearms was somehow created by the supply. People have been buying surplus military weapons forever (all those Mauser and Springfield 1903-based hunting rifles come to mind).

Posted by: Andy at May 05, 2013 06:32 AM (OZPoa)

19 Glenn Reynolds just posted this link:

Newspaper Editor Wants NRA Members Sent To Guantanamo

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/168325/

Posted by: mrp at May 05, 2013 06:33 AM (HjPtV)

20 17 CBD,

well if you follow the law and get your stamps yeah you can buy class III weapons there....

"so?"

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:33 AM (LRFds)

21 OTOH, I just looked at the editorial's date stamp (4/25) so it has probably been posted and linked here about 300 times.

Posted by: mrp at May 05, 2013 06:34 AM (HjPtV)

22 From what I've read those M1s were shot out, shot up, used up, worn out left overs, not new. Is that true? Posted by: Skandia Recluse at May 05, 2013 10:22 AM An M-1 is never shot up or used up. They can be re-arsenaled with new barrels and misc parts for cheap. They are the best battle rifle ever conceived.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 06:35 AM (MhA4j)

23 A grand, garand morning to each of you. Tomato planting tip at 277? last thread. Sorry I got here late. While that trap door was cool for it's time, the lever action that followed was a God send for Calvary and home owners alike.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 06:35 AM (L7JQT)

24
Nothing really to comment on, save that this is a welcome change from the unrelenting barrage of gay bullshit.

So entertain me.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 05, 2013 06:35 AM (SAMxH)

25 One of the sweetest military surplus rifles was the Swedish Mauser. Not buying one is one of my regrets.

Posted by: mrp at May 05, 2013 06:36 AM (HjPtV)

26 well if you follow the law and get your stamps yeah you can buy class III weapons there.... "so?" Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 10:33 AM My Class III guy told me Friday stamps are taking six months minimum now.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 06:36 AM (MhA4j)

27 Visiting the Oregon Coast. Popped into a BiMart on a crazy hunch. Four 100 round bricks of .40 still on the shelf. Only bought one even though non-gouge pre-panic price. Thought I'd leave some for the rest of you. Checker said I was lucky.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at May 05, 2013 06:41 AM (SBNUw)

28 25 MRP,

If I ever get a case of the dummies and decide to sell mine again I'll post it here first and send it to a FFL through my FFL

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:44 AM (LRFds)

29 26 Dept of Accuracy,

either another 'fuck uh you" from BHO or raw volume is through the nose

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 06:44 AM (LRFds)

30
   Took Basic with the Garand and carried it into my usaeur tour. Those weapons are simple as a rock and just as tough.

   In 62(?) we were issued the M14--my TRUE love. (It was the 20rd capacity that did it).

   Now, I own one of each. These, plus the 12ga and the 1911 make the basic arsenal for homeowners, imho.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 05, 2013 06:44 AM (SAMxH)

31 Good morning my fellow gun nuts!

Here's a pic of my lovely wife taking a SA .45 Long Colt out for a spin.

http://i40.tinypic.com/5p24v7.jpg

Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 06:45 AM (doBIb)

>>>A grand, garand morning to each of you.
Tomato planting tip at 277? last thread. Sorry I got here late.

BRB.

Posted by: Shaggoth at May 05, 2013 06:46 AM (JMEn3)

33 Wow, kinda slow for a gun thread. And it's cold and dreary here. Thanks to an email I woke up to though, "I've got sunshine,, on a cloudy day"

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 06:48 AM (cWpCn)

34 That Keynes sex diary was crazy. If Milton Friedman or Adam Smith kept a sex diary of all the times they buggered teenage boys, we'd damn sure well know about and be told that free market capitalism was the fevered dream of boy-raping pedophiles. But Keynes did just that, kept a sex diary of his pederasty .... and nobody thinks it's a fact that needs mentioning. No wonder the Left freaked out by the mention Keynes was gay ... the problem isn't that he was gay. Keynes was pretty much an open advocate of NAMBLA. Jesus.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 05, 2013 06:48 AM (ZPrif)

35 whoops, wrong thread. Last thread was the gay Keynes thread.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 05, 2013 06:49 AM (ZPrif)

36 I absolutely love my Garand. Mine is ser numbered in the 6 millions Shoots nice tight groups Purchased through the CMP.

Posted by: Boomer at May 05, 2013 06:49 AM (9E2pu)

37 "so?"

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 10:33 AM (LRFds)

You and I know that, but the LIV think that the NRA is selling machine guns to baby killers.

The fucktards at ABC did it quite consciously.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 06:49 AM (/WLC3)

38 Thanks, Sven. I shot one of the Swedes (the Mauser, that is) at the range. The owner had an original and a sporterized version for hunting. He said it was the best deer rifle he owned.

Posted by: mrp at May 05, 2013 06:51 AM (HjPtV)

39 Anyone w/netflix I recommend a movie which has finally made it into their streaming side. The Castle, an Aussie movie about a family who fights eminent domain when the airport they live next door to wants to expand. I first heard of the movie when Cato did an article on movies that promote liberty and they write a better review than me: Lawyers play an important role in two other fine libertarian films. The Castle was produced in Australia in 1997 but reached the United States in 1999. ItÂ’s a very funny film about a character who thinks that living near the airport is just great. He even likes looking up at the massive power lines near his house because they remind him of what man can accomplish. Shades of Ayn Rand! Anyway, a manÂ’s home is his castle, and the protagonist is shocked when the airport decides to seize his property to extend its runway. He fights the system to no avail until a smooth, well-dressed lawyer Â— way out of the lead characterÂ’s league Â— shows up and offers to take his case. Again we see powerful interests forced to defend themselves in a law-governed society. A nice defense of private property, and very funny to boot.

Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 06:51 AM (FmFB3)

You mean the police just can't frisk you because you look suspicious? Who knew?

The hell you say!

Posted by: Emperor Bloombucks at May 05, 2013 06:52 AM (6BnTn)

41 My buddy got a free trip to the NRA Meeting. Lucky SOB. (PI inestigating some iffidelity, so some isn't so licky.) Regarding new gun purchases, does the Bug-A-Salt count

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 06:52 AM (Wl/Ht)

This is just the sort of insanity we DO NOT NEED!

45 millimeters is very nearly two inches! Why would anyone need a shoulder fired weapon that fires a two inch diameter bullet?! And no doubt the bullets are explosive as well!

And "70" !!!!, a Seventy round magazine! What in the world would you need that for? Rampaging gangs of rogue elephants with white whales?

Even the vice president knows two shotgun rounds, fired safely in the air is more than sufficient to stop a rampaging gang of rogue elephants, with or without white whales!

Posted by: Demotard at May 05, 2013 06:53 AM (cCtpI)

43 Thorvald, thanks for mentioning jpfo. They'll never get the coverage, the news interviews and such, that would help them grow, because they're the best.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 06:54 AM (cWpCn)

44 Posted by: irongrampa at May 05, 2013 10:44 AM (SAMxH)

It's a good start.

But.....I have been convinced that a truly complete home collection needs a .223 in a scary configuration.

1. Light recoil for the ladies (and BCochran).
2. Ammo is light.
3. Shorter and more maneuverable than the M1.
4. More is always better.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 06:54 AM (/WLC3)

45 Late to the thread. Mornin' all. Question. Anyone here ever had occasion to shoot both a Colt 1911, and a Ruger SR 1911?

I have a Colt that is one sweet shooter. It's a Series 80 Govt Model. I've just about decided that for "carry" I'm going with a full sized pistol. Don't want to wear out the blue on this Col,t as it was my dads.

Thinking Ruger in stainless, and it's also a lot less expensive than a Colt. . Opinions, compare, contrast? Thanks.

Maybe even a Springfield 1911, too.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 05, 2013 06:54 AM (4Mv1T)

46 Posted by: Emperor Bloombucks at May 05, 2013 10:52 AM (6BnTn)

What kind of country are we living in when you don't have to tug your forelock when your betters walk by?

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 05, 2013 06:55 AM (Cnqmv)

47 Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 10:45 AM (doBIb) Where's that EC?

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 06:55 AM (Wl/Ht)

48 No wonder the Left freaked out by the mention Keynes was gay ... the problem isn't that he was gay. Keynes was pretty much an open advocate of NAMBLA. Jesus. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 05, 2013 10:48 AM (ZPrif) Seems leftys don,t have skeletons in their closet, they have cemetaries. Good mornin rons. It's a crappy weather day here just south of geenville, 52 and thunderstorms. OSPs, Edition #2 of this new house. Cleaned the gutters yesterday, massivly impacted, the corcksuckers that owned this place never cleaned them once in 5 years. Cork suckers. Yesterday, my neighbor and I sat on his back porch with his impressive collection of pellet guns, He had multiple targets set up on the trees behind our houses. He kicked my butt. He's really good. Time fot first cup o Joe.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Walker 2016 at May 05, 2013 06:56 AM (XIxXP)

49 Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 10:51 AM (FmFB3) I haven't heard of anyone else ever seeing "The Castle" since I saw it in 1999/2000. Rather funny and deeply silly. Australian flick. For those who like rom-coms Australian-style: "Hotel de Love" is a great one from the same era.

Posted by: Staff at May 05, 2013 06:57 AM (G9qZk)

50 Where's that EC? In the woods somewhere on a friend's land.

Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 06:57 AM (doBIb)

51 I absolutely love my Garand. Mine is ser numbered in the 6 millions Shoots nice tight groups Purchased through the CMP. Posted by: Boomer at May 05, 2013 10:49 AM I have two CMP that are very good but my treasure was rebuilt by this guy http://dgrguns.com/index.htm Serial # puts it manufactured on my birthday week. Kismet

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 06:57 AM (MhA4j)

52 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 10:54 AM (/WLC3) A 10-22 Bullpup conversion looks scary fun.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 06:58 AM (Wl/Ht)

53 Benghazi is flying apart - CBS covering it well on Face the Nation. It really hurts those liberals to do this but it looks like actual journalism on their part.

This is a scandal the Demoncrats aren't going to be able to contain - the changes in the talking points in the early days have no possible explanation - other than being exactly what they were. Best case for them: misinformation that directly contradicted and embarrassed the Libyan president - worst case (the truth) : a blatant conspiracy to cover up what happened.

What did the President know, and when did he know it?

Posted by: An Observation at May 05, 2013 06:59 AM (ylhEn)

54 Posted by: Staff at May 05, 2013 10:57 AM (G9qZk) ---- "I realize its unfair to compare anywhere to Bonnie Dune (their half empty lake, vacation lot) but what was Bankok like?" LOL

Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 07:01 AM (FmFB3)

55 Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 10:57 AM (MhA4j)

Tell, tell!

I have a Korean M1 that I was thinking of redoing.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 07:04 AM (/WLC3)

56 In the woods somewhere on a friend's land. Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 10:57 AM (doBIb) Always nice to have. Regarding Aussie flicks I remember one that I loved as a kid. Pretty sure the name was 'Fortress' - bank robbers take a school house hostage into the Outback. By the end the little kids go savage on them with their school equpment (compasses, sharpened rulers, etc.).

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 07:04 AM (Wl/Ht)

57 Now back on target - so to speak. As I have said in an earlier post I have one of their 45 pistols, and I'm thinking about getting a Hi-Point 45 carbine - any one here have experience with the carbine?

Posted by: An Observation at May 05, 2013 07:04 AM (ylhEn)

58 I have two CMP that are very good but my treasure was rebuilt by this guy http://dgrguns.com/index.htm Serial # puts it manufactured on my birthday week. Kismet Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 10:57 AM (MhA4j) I've seen DGR's work before. Great looking stocks I got lucky on my M1. Got it when CMP was still doing luck of the draw. Just happened to get a 6 mil with the original barrel. Very tight rifle. No slop at all.

Posted by: Boomer at May 05, 2013 07:04 AM (9E2pu)

59 Guy next to me at the range last week had a rearsenaled Garand, Korean era I belive. Looked new. He's at the Camp Butner games this weekend.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 05, 2013 07:06 AM (4Mv1T)

60 3 I want an Ar-15 in .45-70.... Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 10:20 AM (LRFds) 458 SOCOM. 45-70 ballistics in a 5.56 length cartridge to work in an AR. The normal 30 rd GI magazine holds about 7-8 of the big cartridges. Semiauto buffalo gun. Fapfapfap.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 05, 2013 07:07 AM (MBqvE)

61 remember to check out gunssavelives.net everyday for new stories on how guns saved lives in the self defense section

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 05, 2013 07:08 AM (GVxQo)

62 >>"Wright Patts gun counter" Where the hell you at sven? That's my beer -buying territory.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at May 05, 2013 07:08 AM (y+cy4)

63 TR- I don't care for how most of the Rugers fit my hand. But if the one you're looking at feels good to you,,, well, that company doesn't sell junk.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 07:09 AM (Nsomq)

64 @30 My nominee for homeowner's 12ga: Saiga 12. http://preview.tinyurl.com/cfk6fsv The shooting starts at about 30". (Btw, I've never seen the point of letting newbies hurt themselves recoil. I try to check, for lack of a better term, firmness, before even bringing up the subject. A USAF technical sergeant, larger than life and truly an amazing shot with his M9, coaching me the first time I ever shot a handgun, told me, among other things, not to sweep anything with the muzzle. "No one is going to die on my range today!")

Posted by: Thorvald at May 05, 2013 07:10 AM (1V6Pv)

65 Posted by: An Observation at May 05, 2013 11:04 AM (ylhEn)

I don't hold Hi-Pernt pistols in very high regard, but I've heard good things about their carbines.

Posted by: Country Singer at May 05, 2013 07:12 AM (cnmE6)

Gunbot.net if you haven't heard of it. Ammo, mags, primers, it searches many other sites for stuff in stock and gives price. I successfully ordered small rifle primers from Midway using the gunbot lead.

USPSA. United States Practical Shooters Association. We had a local club start up in the area this year. Heard about it from a buddy, went and watch him shoot his very first pistol match yesterday. Very Cool. Any skill, any pistol, very low key. I intend to try my first match in two weeks. FYI, it took about 150 rounds to do the course, and you get your empties back.

Posted by: Simon Jester at May 05, 2013 07:14 AM (EhSF0)

67 Tell, tell! I have a Korean M1 that I was thinking of redoing. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 11:04 AM My receiver gauged a 1.5 and crown was 1 so I had him Parkerize, springs, op-rod and piston and a Super Extra Fancy fitted stock for $1000 It stays in the display case.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 07:15 AM (MhA4j)

68 Hey OSP, we will have to meet downtown some Saturday, maybe at the Carolina Ale House on Main some Saturday for a lunch. I work in downtown Greenville but live northeast of there in a town that makes Newberry look like one of the futuristic mega-citys.

Posted by: Taiwan_Joe at May 05, 2013 07:15 AM (O7aw+)

69 that company doesn't sell junk.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 11:09 AM (Nsomq)

Their mid 1990s 9mms were pretty close.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 05, 2013 07:15 AM (/WLC3)

70 Thanks Teej. I started this search for a "carry" piece with a subcompact .45, sold it, now a compact .45, getting ready to sell it, and trying to figure out how to get into a 1911 that I can depend on, but doesn't cost a grand new. Dad's doesn't have any war time significance. It's a late 80's purchase. I just imagine that carrying a blued gun will cause some significant holster wear in no time

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 05, 2013 07:16 AM (4Mv1T)

71 It stays in the display case.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 11:15 AM (MhA4j)

Break in case of emergency.

Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 07:16 AM (doBIb)

72 Hey OSP, we will have to meet downtown some Saturday, maybe at the Carolina Ale House on Main some Saturday for a lunch. I work in downtown Greenville but live northeast of there in a town that makes Newberry look like one of the futuristic mega-citys. Posted by: Taiwan_Joe at May 05, 2013 11:15 AM (O7aw+) Sounds good, I have yet to investigate down town, been busy unpacking. We live in Fountain Inn.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Walker 2016 at May 05, 2013 07:18 AM (XIxXP)

73 Tobacco Road, FWIW I've heard nothing but glowing reports on the SR 1911.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:18 AM (celt+)

74 @67- Dept. of Accuracy Please tell me I'm in your will. Kidding, I hope you outlive me by a hundred years.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 07:19 AM (Nsomq)

The M1 carbine--sweet little rifle--took the 30-rd mag made for the later M2 (auto select avail) and was thus an assault weapon. Mass shootings involving the M1 carbine, or any other back then?

Had a friend who reloaded his 45.70. Molded his bullets with a big hollow point. For a .22 short to be inserted butt end first. Didn't kill him, much to our surprise.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at May 05, 2013 07:19 AM (dmbXR)

76 My proposed theme song for the gun thread: http://youtu.be/-TC2xTCb_GU

Posted by: Boomer Redneque, shooty boom-boom edition at May 05, 2013 07:20 AM (eQnzo)

77 Crazy Horse preferred the Henry repeater.

Posted by: deepred at May 05, 2013 07:21 AM (rUiSC)

78 Btw, repeal the NFA of 1934. It is unconstitutional. SMG for home defense. http://preview.tinyurl.com/y8nfvnl

Posted by: Thorvald at May 05, 2013 07:21 AM (1V6Pv)

79 You're right about the mid 90's 9mm of course CBD. There are exceptions to every rule.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 07:22 AM (Nsomq)

80 Book thread up.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 05, 2013 07:22 AM (X6akg)

81 Anybody ever fired a 45-70 revolver? Impressions?

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:23 AM (H9MGI)

82 I'm hoping y'all can toss me some learnin' here. When I see two numbers together, like say 30-06, what the hell do they mean? I'm pretty sure the above is a .30 caliber weapon, but what does the "ought six" mean? Same for the 45-70 up thread. I'll assume it's a .45 caliber, bot I don't know what the "-70" is telling me.

Posted by: Boomer Redneque, shooty boom-boom edition at May 05, 2013 07:24 AM (eQnzo)

83 I was looking at a Trapdoor Springfield rifle a few months back and I was taken aback by the rear sight mechanism. The elevator was eccentric, that is, rather than moving the sight simply back and forth to raise and lower it, it was angled fore and aft so the sight also moved to one side as you raised it (can't remember if it was to the left or right.) That's because the big, slow, heavy .45 bullet drifts to one side due to its rotation. Raising the sight not only compensates for trajectory but for that rotational windage as well.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:24 AM (celt+)

84 My proposed theme song for the gun thread: http://youtu.be/-TC2xTCb_GU Posted by: Boomer Redneque, shooty boom-boom edition at May 05, 2013 11:20 AM (eQnzo) watched the whole thing. pretty cool.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Walker 2016 at May 05, 2013 07:24 AM (XIxXP)

85 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield

Posted by: EC at May 05, 2013 07:26 AM (doBIb)

86 Posted by: Taiwan_Joe at May 05, 2013 11:15 AM (O7aw+) Must be in Greer.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:26 AM (H9MGI)

87 For the 30-06, it's referring to the year of adoption 1906. 45-70 is rather different, a 45cal bullet behind 70 grains of black powder.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 05, 2013 07:27 AM (MBqvE)

88 82 I'm hoping y'all can toss me some learnin' here. When I see two numbers together, like say 30-06, what the hell do they mean? I'm pretty sure the above is a .30 caliber weapon, but what does the "ought six" mean? Same for the 45-70 up thread. I'll assume it's a .45 caliber, bot I don't know what the "-70" is telling me.

---------------

There's no stadardization of cartridge nomenclature. The -06 is for 1906, the year when it was adopted. 70 is for 70 grains, the volumetric measurement of the powder in the case (that measurement no longer used). The precurser of the .30-06 was the .30-40 Krag, which used 40 grains of powder.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:28 AM (celt+)

89 87 For the 30-06, it's referring to the year of adoption 1906. 45-70 is rather different, a 45cal bullet behind 70 grains of black powder. Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 05, 2013 11:27 AM (MBqvE) That's my understanding....what about 7mm08?

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:29 AM (H9MGI)

90 Thanks, ITC. How does one know which is which? Just experience?

Posted by: Boomer Redneque, shooty boom-boom edition at May 05, 2013 07:29 AM (eQnzo)

91 @77- would love to own a Henry. If I ever get back to making a decent wage, probably one in 22mag. @78- Agree 100% Thorvald. Have never held or fired one. Don't know anything about them. But as a kid watching Vic Morrow in "Combat", I've always wanted a Thompson. And the ammo would have matched that M1991A1 I lost in my oft mentioned, tragic ice fishing incident.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 07:30 AM (e0nsQ)

92 what about 7mm08?

--------------

7mm bullet in a necked-down .308 case.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:30 AM (celt+)

93 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:30 AM (celt+) Thanks.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:31 AM (H9MGI)

94 Thanks to the others that answered, too. So it looks like you need to understand this on a case-by-case basis.

Posted by: Boomer Redneque, shooty boom-boom edition at May 05, 2013 07:31 AM (eQnzo)

95 Boomer - US Army nomenclature

30-06 = .30 caliber round of 1906

45-70 = .45 caliber of 1870

Posted by: butch at May 05, 2013 07:33 AM (EV3Uf)

96 friend who reloaded his 45.70... **** At the range my son and I were shooting my Izhmash Tiger and the guys next bench had a 1934 Winchester 1886 45-70. I let them have a turn with mine and I shot theirs. They had holes all over the paper but nothing in the ten ring and when I sighted I was amazed with the crispness of the sight picture. Fine milling that was. So I put it right in the middle and, boom, almost perfectly dead center. They were really pissed off.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 07:36 AM (MhA4j)

97 "So it looks like you need to understand this on a case-by-case basis."

---------------------

Yep, it's chaotic. Once you learn that a .38 Special can be shot in a .357 Magnum revolver because the bullet diameter is EXACTLY THE SAME, all bets are off.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:37 AM (celt+)

98 Congressman Steve Israel (D-Huntington) haftin to be uproared over the printable gun quickly introduced legislation to make them illegal. reason.com/blog/2013/05/04/3d-printed-handgun-prompts-congressman-t

Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 07:39 AM (FmFB3)

99 Yep, it's chaotic. Once you learn that a .38 Special can be shot in a .357 Magnum revolver because the bullet diameter is EXACTLY THE SAME, all bets are off. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:37 AM If you put the .38 Special in a heavy .357 revolver you will hit everything you deliberately point it at. Just sayin'

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 07:41 AM (MhA4j)

100 Actually, now that I think about it, modern military cartridge designations have become pretty standardized, with the bullet diameter (in millimeters) followed by the cartridge case length. So you've got 7.62x51mm (NATO), 7.62x39mm (Soviet AK), 9x19mm (standard 9mm Parabellum), etc.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:43 AM (celt+)

101 If you put the .38 Special in a heavy .357 revolver you will hit everything you deliberately point it at. Just sayin' Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 11:41 AM (MhA4j) That's what I do...or .38+p

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:44 AM (H9MGI)

102 I'm commenting in between careful filing to open my Ruger Vaquero rear sight. I'd really like to re-blue as little as possible. Lots of masking tape and small motions...

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 07:46 AM (celt+)

103 62 Herr Morgenholz,

I'm in Franklin IN, I'm from Fairborn OH.

I went to visit mom's burial ground and eat local food on the way back on I-70 from points east.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 07:46 AM (LRFds)

104 Tobacco Road, I've only fired Kimber 1911's in 9mm and .45ACP. Would recommend any of the Kimber 1911's. Plus they are beautiful to look at, if your into that sort of thing and all, not that I'm saying you are or anything. I use to have an Aegis myself until it got lost camping a while back. Fits real nice in my wummins hands, real nice.

Posted by: LindaFell at May 05, 2013 07:52 AM (PGO8C)

105 Posted by: LindaFell at May 05, 2013 11:52 AM (PGO8C) Oh, I never consider aesthetics....only utility...heh.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 07:55 AM (H9MGI)

106 Here's a question for you morons: If you're old enough you'll remember all the stories about spree killers (with the middle name "Wayne") used to mention the killer was "a bedwetter until the age of 14." How come we never see this anymore? Better potty training? I'll bet Jared Loughner wet the bed until he was a teenager.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 05, 2013 08:00 AM (tOkJB)

107 I have second generation Taurus PT-1911s $525 and shoot like a pistol costing much more. Range buddy has STI and Kimber and we shot for $ once. He never wanted a rematch. I was hitting bulls @ 40 yards

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 08:01 AM (MhA4j)

108 Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 11:39 AM (FmFB3) Great. The level of stupidity in the debate is going to go nuclear. Undetectable guns OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 08:04 AM (Wl/Ht)

109 I guess the gun IS detectable because the guy built it around a piece of metal just to make it detectable. Kind of ruins the argument, plus it uses a nail for a firing pin.

Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 08:07 AM (FmFB3)

110 Posted by: Up With People! at May 05, 2013 12:07 PM (FmFB3) But an unscrupolous person will omit the 6 oz slug. 'Not if we put words on paper!!!'

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 08:09 AM (Wl/Ht)

111 Actually, now that I think about it, modern military cartridge designations have become pretty standardized, with the bullet diameter (in millimeters) followed by the cartridge case length. So you've got 7.62x51mm (NATO), 7.62x39mm (Soviet AK) The NATO bullet is not the same size as the Soviet bullit be very careful, they don't interchange

Posted by: jake in ID at May 05, 2013 08:11 AM (zzeVM)

112 be very careful, they don't interchange Posted by: jake in ID at May 05, 2013 12:11 PM One of my favorite move scenes is George Burns "Going in Style" and they're trying to match ammo to the revolvers and the .32s are falling through the cylinders.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at May 05, 2013 08:25 AM (MhA4j)

113 But as a kid watching Vic Morrow in "Combat", I've always wanted a Thompson.

Had one in Vietnam - very heavy as I remember. Mine had the 30 round straight magazine - not the 50 round drum. Wasn't supposed to have it and as a result I never fired it. The indoor gun range where I shoot has a Thompson for rent - burns through a box of 45ACP pretty quickly though - so kind of expensive to shoot.

Posted by: An Observation at May 05, 2013 08:36 AM (ylhEn)

114 113 an Observation,

of course the heaviness is what allows a trained Thompson operator to whhibit such control....

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 08:55 AM (LRFds)

115 Greetings: As a follow-on to your "Gun (Rifle ???) of the Week", I just finished reading "The Last Stand" by Nathaniel Philbrick about George Armstrong's demise which involved a large number of those "Guns". The book was pretty close to excellent. The author kept his inner progressive mostly under control until near the very end. The maps of the battle were the best I've come across in over a handful of years of reading mostly military history. As some are no doubt aware, many of the Cheyenne and Lakota warriors involved had already upgraded to Henry and Winchester repeating (assault weapon")rifles except for the retrograde conservative minority which proclaimed, "You'll have to take my bow and arrows from my cold dead hands."

Posted by: 11B40 at May 05, 2013 09:04 AM (5wcN0)

116 I may be wrong, but I believe the Gun Of The Week, the 1872 cavalry carbine, was a .45-55. Its infantry rifle counterpart was the .45-70. The advantage they had over the repeaters was range and stopping power, although many a cavalry troop passed the hat to buy Spencers for all hands until Chief of Ordnance, Steven Vincent Benet (who later wrote the line, "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee") ordered them confiscated and replaced with Springfields; something the 7th Cavalry said would have been the measure of victory at Little Bighorn. Needless to say, they never forgave him.

Posted by: formwiz at May 05, 2013 09:11 AM (Kv1kb)

117 The Last Stand was a good read. The stuff at the end raised my detector a tad, but not where I couldn't finish and overall be happy with the book. Late start to the thread... hard to catch up! Morning!

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 09:11 AM (/jHWN)

118 PS The carbine was chambered to take the same cartridge the Colt SAA.

Posted by: formwiz at May 05, 2013 09:12 AM (Kv1kb)

119 A good book that talks about firearm development and its' effect is a book about fighting the Comanche in Texas and Oklahoma in the 1830 to 1900 book titled Empire of the Summer Moon, http://amzn.to/10gQ176

Talks about how hard it was to fight back against the Comanche until the Walker Colt and the Texas Rangers learned to shoot on the run on horseback , that an other later stuff after the civil war turned the tide. Good book.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 09:15 AM (/jHWN)

120 I think everyone that enjoys firearms should buy a Garand. Just saying, I've bought two and love them. One is completely reworked with new barrel and wood and , well, it's like new, but from 1945. My other one is 1954 Korean era and it's not redone, but in great shape. the wood has a great patina and cartouches. Love 'em.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 09:18 AM (/jHWN)

121 114 113 an Observation, of course the heaviness is what allows a trained Thompson operator to whhibit such control.... Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 12:55 PM (LRFds) i don't care. That should be a real word.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 09:28 AM (Wl/Ht)

122 Have not read comments, glad to see the guy in CLT got off. The cops were way over bounds telling someone they could not leave. They had no probably cause. Maybe he should sue for kidnap?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at May 05, 2013 09:31 AM (wR+pz)

123 >> That's the Model 1873 "Trapdoor" Springfield in .45-70. Or, as liberals call it, an AR-15.

There you knuckleheads go again--running your mouths without the benefit of our layers and layers of fact-checking. that's clearly a Glock AK-47 with an extended magazine clip.

Posted by: The MFM at May 05, 2013 09:32 AM (7xeJQ)

124 121 RWC,

my only defense is that I have ten mangled fingers and one functioning braincell

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 09:33 AM (LRFds)

125 Hat tip to Arthur Kimes @ComradeArthur on twitter:

http://tinyurl.com/ccsf63j

A very good and thoughtful piece of writing.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 05, 2013 09:54 AM (Cnqmv)

126 I got lucky and found an original 45-70 at a reasonable price. Fun to shoot, and accurate. Ammo hard to find and pricey. Modern ammo a little to much for the old gun. Have a modern replica for shooting. Shot the M-14 in basic, just before the M-16 replaced it. So I have a rebuilt match grade M-1A. Finally, have the old Viet vet bias against the M-16 (I know, the modern versions are a whole new ball game), my M1 Carbine fits that niche very nicely. No, I am not going to hit out at AR-15 ranges, but as a home defense rifle, I think I got the better deal.

Posted by: Dustoff 28 at May 05, 2013 09:56 AM (Z3Snn)

127 my only defense is that I have ten mangled fingers and one functioning braincell Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 05, 2013 01:33 PM (LRFds) 1! You lucky! You lucky bastid! Speaking of Garand's, anybody heard of 'international harvester?'

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 09:59 AM (Wl/Ht)

128 Speaking of Garand's, anybody heard of 'international harvester?' Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 01:59 PM (Wl/Ht) Yeah...and Rock-Ola....and Singer......

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 10:14 AM (H9MGI)

129 Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 02:14 PM (H9MGI) So they're reputable?

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 10:18 AM (Wl/Ht)

130 So they're reputable? Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 02:18 PM (Wl/Ht) Garands were produced by many manufacturers....collectors will argue which is best made/most accurate etc. but they're all mil spec afaik

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 10:26 AM (H9MGI)

131 Thanks. On gunbroker IH are going for almost double than a couple of Springfields i've been looking at.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 10:40 AM (Wl/Ht)

132 Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 02:40 PM (Wl/Ht) I've heard Winchesters get top$$ too...don't know myself. If you get one thru CMP it could be anything.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 10:45 AM (H9MGI)

133 The legislation helped make a new, more powerful class of firearms more readily available to civilian gun owners I laughed out loud. My 700 can put you in your grave at 1500 yards if I had the hands for it. 300 and in no whitetail is safe.

Posted by: toby928© at May 05, 2013 10:47 AM (QupBk)

134 Oh, yay, gun thread! I have a couple of questions for you guns & ammo morons. Just came back from the local gun shop, where I was shown and dry-fired a Ruger SP101, that seemed like it might be a pretty good gun for me. Any thoughts, you guys?

I also looked at a S&W 360 38 special which was so tiny and so lightweight, but the guy though the Ruger would be better, as it will fire either .38 or (I think he said) .45 magnum. It was heavier, however.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 10:51 AM (8lmkt)

135 Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 02:45 PM (H9MGI) Ha. Totally forgot to check CMP.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 10:52 AM (Wl/Ht)

136 I also looked at a SW 360 38 special which was so tiny and so lightweight, but the guy though the Ruger would be better, as it will fire either .38 or (I think he said) .45 magnum. It was heavier, however. Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 02:51 PM (8lmkt) I hope he said .38/.357mag.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 10:53 AM (H9MGI)

137 Ha. Totally forgot to check CMP. Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 02:52 PM (Wl/Ht) You have to compete in 2 sanctioned high power events as well as belong to your states rifle org. to purchase a CMP Garand....unless rules have changed in the last 20 yrs.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 10:56 AM (H9MGI)

138 Peaches, they're both good. It's what is your price-point and which one feels better to you. Are you going to carry in your purse or car? Then you'll want a hammerless version. ( no snag ) .357 will shoot .357 and .38, important for a small pistol, but a modern .38 that will shoot +P ammo is good to go.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 10:57 AM (/jHWN)

139 118 PS The carbine was chambered to take the same cartridge the Colt SAA.

---------------

If you're still talking about the Springfield Trapdoor carbine, no. The .45-55 round used in the carbine was a downloaded .45-70. The .45 Colt in the SAA is a whole different animal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 10:58 AM (celt+)

140 The CMP rules aren't that tough. Belong to a rifle club or state assoc, etc, you have to show you've received some sort of firearms training, ie, a CHL, and then be able to pass fed background checks.

Go to their site and it has a FAQ that will lay it all out, and if you have questions you call them and they are very helpful on the phone.

Know this though, they are super-backed up on orders since the reelection of the SCOAMF.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:00 AM (/jHWN)

141 CMP: http://odcmp.com/

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:01 AM (/jHWN)

142 134 Oh, yay, gun thread! I have a couple of questions for you guns ammo morons. Just came back from the local gun shop, where I was shown and dry-fired a Ruger SP101, that seemed like it might be a pretty good gun for me. Any thoughts, you guys?

I also looked at a SW 360 38 special which was so tiny and so lightweight, but the guy though the Ruger would be better, as it will fire either .38 or (I think he said) .45 magnum. It was heavier, however.

--------------

The SP-101 is a .357 Magnum, and will fire .38 Specials. It's a fine revolver, more controllable than the 360. Lighter, smaller guns are nicer to carry, heavier guns are nicer to shoot. You need to decide on the trade-off. FWIW, I doubt you'd ever feel the need to fire .357's out of the SP-101, but it will definitely handle hotter .38 Specials, and that's a good thing.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:02 AM (celt+)

143 You have to compete in 2 sanctioned high power events as well as belong to your states rifle org. to purchase a CMP Garand....unless rules have changed in the last 20 yrs. Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 02:56 PM (H9MGI) May have. Instead of the competition there is this- Proof of Marksmanship or Other Firearms Related Activity Ehh, just looked again. I thought a CCW would be enough, but it's not. Well, back to gunbroker.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 11:03 AM (Wl/Ht)

144 And dammit, the left said I could purchase assault rifles with no background checks or any hurdles. Why does CMP make it so hard! /s

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 11:04 AM (Wl/Ht)

145 RWC, my CHL was enough for me on that requirement..

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:05 AM (/jHWN)

146 Also, check out Judge Jeanne at the NRA... pure awesomeness!!

http://bit.ly/15layyJ

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:07 AM (/jHWN)

147 Proof of Marksmanship or Other Firearms Related Activity Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 03:03 PM (Wl/Ht) The proof of marksmanship is the NRA rating you receive from the competitions.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 11:10 AM (H9MGI)

148

Yip is correct, access to CMP sales is not that hard, their site has all the answers. If you are one who is thinking they'd like to collect some milsurp or other older firearms in the next 3 years, look into getting your FFL-03 license, for Curio & Relics collectors (an ATF license). Simple and easy to get, $30 for 3 years. (BTW, an FFL-03 also ticks one of the boxes for CMP sales access)

The discounts for FFL-03 holders at major distributors such as Midway and Brownells alone will cover the $30 cost very quickly if you are a shooter who needs supplies/tools/stuff. And depending on your state/city, a C&R license will allow you to receive milsurp rifles directly in the mail (the savings from no involvement of an FFL - a regular gun dealer - in just one such transaction will also likely more than cover your $30 license fee). In most states, it also allows you to buy/sell milsurp (or other qualified older firearms) privately, face-to-face or even through the mail, to other individuals. (In other words, for a certain class of guns, an FFL-03 makes things sort of like they were, everywhere in the USA, 40 years ago ....)

Highly recommend looking into the FFL-03/C&R license for those in the market for milsurps or older firearms over the next several years. AFT website has the info and downloadable forms.

Posted by: non-purist at May 05, 2013 11:12 AM (afQnV)

149 Posted by: non-purist at May 05, 2013 03:12 PM (afQnV) Good info. Thanks.

Posted by: BignJames at May 05, 2013 11:15 AM (H9MGI)

150 Thanks so much for the advice, Yip and Taro! I did like the Ruger. And, no, I won't be carrying it around in my swanky purse or in my car -- at least not in the immediately foreseeable future, although the way things are going, that could change (I do not have a concealed carry permit and no way I could get one in Commiefornia). Just something for in the house in case of unwanted intruders and for the future -- I do cling to the thought of busting a move from LA to a more rural area and could end up out in the middle of nowhere with just myself to depend on.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 11:21 AM (8lmkt)

151 Greetings: especially "Yip" at 118 If you enjoyed "Empire of the Moon", you might want to give "Comanches: The History of a People" by T.R. Fehrenbach a going over. By far, it's not only my favorite Comanches vs. Texicans book, but my all time favorite book about American Indians. It's struck me as more historical and less journalistic than the former as it covered the Comanche from their Rocky Mountain, ore-horse days. Not really nice guys, those Comanche.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 05, 2013 11:22 AM (5wcN0)

152

There was one of "trap door" Springfield rifles around our house when I was a teenager. Don't recall where it came from, but it could fire a 28 gauge shotgun shell.

It may not have been even chambered for a 28 gauge shotgun shell because it was hard to eject the shell after it had been fired. In fact, no one was sure it was even safe to fire. I did it first by lashing it to a tree and pulling the trigger with a length of heavy cord. It didn't explode so we assumed it was okay to hunt with. That didn't last long either because it was a lot heavier than the modern shotguns available to us and the recoil was all out of proportion to the size of the shell.

Posted by: TOF at May 05, 2013 11:23 AM (PV2IU)

153 Heh, I also asked the guy about the Taurus Judge, which has always intrigued me and I just wanted to hold one and check it out. He told me they are not legal to sell in California. What a surprise! They had the cutest little SW Ladysmith there, used, with a price tag of $2,095. Tag was marked "scarce." I didn't both to even hold it, but it was pretty darn cute.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 11:24 AM (8lmkt)

154 >>>anybody heard of 'international harvester?'

They made farm equipment (farm tractors and Cub Cadet you'll recognize), trucks (Travelall, the ultimate SUV) and appliances for a gazillion years. My dad worked for them in 50's and 60s.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at May 05, 2013 11:25 AM (4Mv1T)

155 anybody heard of 'international harvester?'

My brother-in-law had a Scout for years. Pretty basic, but very well-made and damn-near indestructible.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 11:28 AM (8lmkt)

156 152
There was one of "trap door" Springfield rifles around our house when I was a teenager. Don't recall where it came from, but it could fire a 28 gauge shotgun shell.
It may not have been even chambered for a 28 gauge shotgun shell because it was hard to eject the shell after it had been fired.

-------------------------------

There were rare "Forager" models made in 20 gauge for use by soldiers in western outposts for hunting. Because of their scarcity, they'te often faked. If you had a real one, maybe the undersized 28-gauge shell was bulging on firing? I'm not sure if a 28-gauge would sit in a 20-gauge chamber without falling down the barrel. Maybe you had an old reamed-out hillbilly's gun.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:30 AM (celt+)

157 Filing open the sight on my blued .44 Special Vaquero and haven't slipped and scraped the file across the frame yet. But there's still time.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:33 AM (celt+)

158 Thanks for the info all. Damn wallet is itching to be opened.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 11:37 AM (Wl/Ht)

159 Taro, I've got several Vaquero's in .45LC, but no .44 sp. Why did you choose that caliber if you don't mind me askin? I don't CC but once I shot a Vaquero, I loved it. I started buying them whenever I could find one at a good price, ie, under $450. Now I fear I have too many, heh.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:40 AM (/jHWN)

160 So what gun for punks ass little shit kids? (obviously kidding.) But two cars/tires got flats from the same type of finishing nail within a week. No construction going on around the house and have had them, not broken into because they were unlocked, but gone through and glove box broken before.

Posted by: RWC at May 05, 2013 11:40 AM (Wl/Ht)

161 Peaches, my advice is buy what you like, what fits in your hand well and you can control. Confidence is a big deal and can be gained regardless of what you buy. I prefer as many rounds as you can get, so a six shot instead of a fiver. And others have said, a pistol is only a good defensive weapon to buy you time to get to your shotgun or rifle.

A .38 that is rated for +P at a minimum then if a revolver, and a .357 qualifies. They're just heavier... and that has advantages.. easier to control, less felt recoil with lighter loads, etc. You can practice with light .38 rounds and heavier defensive loads and build familiarity and bond with your pistol. It's a tool after all, allowing you to extend force and your will beyond your reach... not a boogy-man scary thing.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:45 AM (/jHWN)

162 Comanches: The History of a People" by T.R. Fehrenbach

thanks for the tip. I found it on Amazon. I'll look into it. As long as they don't idolize the Comanche. One thing I really liked about Moon was the honest reflection of the Comanche , not the idolization that was de rigueur of the last 50 years.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:50 AM (/jHWN)

163 159 Taro, I've got several Vaquero's in .45LC, but no .44 sp. Why did you choose that caliber if you don't mind me askin?

--------------------

Well, I'm going to be getting into Cowboy Action Shooting this summer, so I needed two revolvers. The standard is a Ruger New Vaquero stainless .357 with 4.62" barrel, so I got one of those right away. I didn't want two of the same gun, so I waited until I saw something that tickled my fancy. One week I was at Cabelas with a $65 gift card, they had all Vaqueros on sale at $50 off the tag price, and they had two .44 Specials, one with a 4.62" barrel and one with a 3.75" ("Sheriff's Model") barrel, with $499 tags on them. Great deal! I thought the Sheriff's Model looked neat, and being a fan of old guns and old cartridges, I figured on shooting .44 Russian out of it.

After 20 years of grousing, "Why can't Ruger make a traditional SA out of the old small Blackhawk frame?", they finally did, and I couldn't be more tickled. I love my new Vaqueros. I always keep my eyes peeled for a 7.5" barrel .45 Colt.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:50 AM (celt+)

164 So, Yip, you really think I'd be better off with a shotgun? I keep going back and forth. It seems like the handgun would be easier to grab, but I can definitely get a shotgun for a lot cheaper. And, of course, much easier to shoot at somebody. In LA, there is no way I will be doing any practicing with it, all the ranges are a good hour away and my friends who go all like to leave at 6:00 on Sunday morning. No way in hell I'm doing that.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 11:53 AM (8lmkt)

165 69 that company doesn't sell junk.

Posted by: teej at May 05, 2013 11:09 AM (Nsomq)

Their mid 1990s 9mms were pretty close.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Hmmm, I musta got lucky then because my KP 89 runs flawlessly. Bought it NIB in 94 and I've run my reloads, cheapo ball, LRN, white box and +P and never have had a malf with any of it over the years.

Posted by: gmac - Pondering the implosion at May 05, 2013 11:53 AM (IanLz)

166 You'll have to look hard for the 7.5 cause they stopped making them as far as I can tell. I want one too. Have you seen the Vaquero in 30 carbine with huge barrel? Look on youtoob and you'll find vid. Wicked... but no way I'd shoot one. Good grief.

I like those sheriff models, but I really want a 4+inch birds eye in .45LC. I also still want one with the dual 45ACP/45LC, but they never really go on sale.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 11:54 AM (/jHWN)

167 164 So, Yip, you really think I'd be better off with a shotgun? I keep going back and forth. It seems like the handgun would be easier to grab, but I can definitely get a shotgun for a lot cheaper.

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Peaches, there is no one answer. There's a compromise with any gun. I personally think most people are best served with a bright flashlight and a double-action revolver loaded with good self-defense .38 Special ammunition. Just my opinion, but I think you're on the right track. Others will say different. Whatever you choose, practice with it.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at May 05, 2013 11:58 AM (celt+)

168 Peaches, there is a lot of opinion on what is best, but everything I've read says, shotguns are best a a sole defensive weapon. Now, I even take that further to say a 20 ga cause they kick less and are easier to control, but they'll be opinions on that too. The number of intruders that will continue an assault with any weapon being fired at them would have to be statistically tiny. What are the odds.

A pistol AND a shotgun would be a good goal. You could start with the pistol, that way easier to grab and hide with but really, it's about comfort and surroundings, etc. Once you have those two, then add the AR or a M-1 Garand heh, for a stand off rifle.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 12:01 PM (/jHWN)

169 Yip, LOL!!! Maybe a flamethrower or some kind of surface-to-air missile, too, just to round out the collection.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 12:10 PM (8lmkt)

170 hehe.. Just need to fight back till the help arrives. Plan a safe spot to hide too. A locking bathroom or bedroom.. somewhere you can shelter and call for help and be ready to defend yourself.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 12:13 PM (/jHWN)

171 Greetings: especially "Yip" at 162 In my opinion, Fehrenbach plays it straight on the Comanche. He's up front about the limitations and drawbacks of "tribal" culture and cultures. One of the things that was new to me was how the acquisition of horse technology saved them so much hunting time which they then turned into raiding time. Another thing that struck me was the similarities between the Comanche and our Muslim brothers and sisters.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 05, 2013 02:23 PM (LQb43)

172 "Another thing that struck me was the similarities between the Comanche and our Muslim brothers and sisters."

THIS. Very much this. I had the same epiphany reading Moon. I'll check out your book rec asap. Thanks.

Posted by: Yip at May 05, 2013 03:05 PM (/jHWN)

173 "164 So, Yip, you really think I'd be better off with a shotgun? I keep going back and forth. It seems like the handgun would be easier to grab, but I can definitely get a shotgun for a lot cheaper. And, of course, much easier to shoot at somebody. In LA, there is no way I will be doing any practicing with it, all the ranges are a good hour away and my friends who go all like to leave at 6:00 on Sunday morning. No way in hell I'm doing that.

Posted by: Peaches at May 05, 2013 03:53 PM (8lmkt)"

A .38 revolver is perfectly adequate for the range you will encounter inside your house unless you live in a really big house. One advantage of a handgun is that although you should shoot it with both hands, you can shoot it with one hand. This allows you to do things like open door knobs or dial 911 on your cell phone while pointing a gun at an intruder who is not dead.

If you decide to get a long gun as well as a hand gun a shotgun is not a bad choice. I would suggest a 20 gauge semiautomatic shotgun because the recoil of a 20 gauge is less than a 12 gauge and the semiauto spreads the recoil out over a few more milliseconds so that the perceived recoil is lower. Another possible long gun is a lever action .357 which will be able to shoot the same ammunition as your revolver. Despite what some people say, you have to aim a shotgun just like you aim a rifle. At the distance you will encounter inside a house, the shot will only spread out to about the size of a baseball. That also means that it is not that important what kind of load you use since a baseball sized cloud of tiny birdshot will make a hole that looks like an angry squirrel gnawed a hole in whatever it hits.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 05, 2013 04:42 PM (31Nrp)

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