July 14, 2013

Gun Thread (7-14-13)
— andy

The Zimmerman Trial

This case should serve as a cautionary tale for concealed carry practitioners.

First, the media insists on referring to Martin as "unarmed", while glossing over the danger Zimmerman's own gun presented to him in a close-quarters confrontation like the one he was involved in. If you carry, the last thing you want to have happen is to become involved in a scuffle.

Second, it can be extremely painful to be a law-abiding citizen in today's media environment. Around 500 murders have happened in Chicago while the Zimmerman fiasco has been going on, yet there's no attendant media circus. And we all know why ... it's largely black-on-black crime, so the race hustlers can't get a foothold.

And of course the media hates concealed carry, stand-your-ground laws (which had nothing to do with this case) and other elements that were present here so much that they coined the term "white Hispanic" and turned Obama-voting Hispanic Zimmerman into a lily white, NRA-supporting GOPer for the purpose of the pushing their narrative. I've said from the beginning that if he were named Jorge Zapata, he'd have never been charged.

As a lily white, NRA-supporting GOPer, this has not gone unnoticed by me.

Andrew Branca, who's been tweeting and blogging the case at Legal Insurrection, is the author of a book called The Law of Self Defense. It's pretty pricey, but I plan on picking up a copy once they get their Kindle version released, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper than attorney's fees, etc., in the event that you find yourself in a situation similar to Zimmerman's. I'll review it in an upcoming gun thread. [Update: Kindle version released]


The Guns of John Moses Browning

browning.jpg

Via ITC. Click to view full-size.


Tagging Gun Owners

There's an app for that, I guess.

A new Android app asks users to expose the home addresses of gun owners they deem “potentially unsafe” -- and share that information with the world.

Whatever. Knock yourselves out, lefties, but here's what you're really doing:


Gun Of The Week


(answer below)

Marksmanship Award


Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the M6 aircrew survival weapon in .22LR/.410. (also .22 Hornet/.410)


2 Guns, 1 Cartridge

This suggestion came in on the tip line, and it'd be a good discussion in the thread. The idea of sharing a common cartridge between a rifle and a handgun is as old as the metallic cartridge itself, with a famous historical one being the Colt SAA and Winchester rifle chambered in .38-40 or .44-40. And who among us doesn't have experience with a .22LR rifle and handgun?

The advantages of having a rifle and handgun chambered for the same round are pretty obvious. With today's tight ammo supplies, streamlining the supply chain makes sense, and there are some really good pistol-chambered carbines available out there these days. On the AR platform, there are also conversion kits that can be used to convert an existing rifle or build a new one in 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP.

So, apart from the ubiquitous .22LR, do any of you have experience with rifle/handgun combos to put us some f'n knowledge on this topic?

Also, here's a good article comparing ballistics for various handgun/rifle combos if you're interested.


Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

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Posted by: andy at 06:11 AM | Comments (270)
Post contains 640 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Yay, welcome back, gun thread!

Posted by: @johntant at July 14, 2013 06:15 AM (GLTPR)

2 Mia Farrow's seven stages of Twitter grief is a hoot.

http://tinyurl.com/qzbychr

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 14, 2013 06:16 AM (VlXYw)

3 Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.(I know the jury was 6 but the thought still applies).  The whole zimmerman trial was a fiasco and zimmerman's name is mud to 1/2 the population but it is certainly better than the alternative of brain damage or death.

Posted by: Shtetl G at July 14, 2013 06:16 AM (YghO6)

4 Well, looky here! There were riots last night, and not just in Oakland: BELFAST, Northern Ireland -- Hundreds of police reinforcements from Britain were deployed on Belfast's rubble-strewn streets Saturday after Protestant riots over a blocked march left 32 officers, a senior lawmaker and at least eight rioters wounded. Lucky the Leprechaun must've been jumped by a crazy ass soda-breadcrumb.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 06:17 AM (+98Gb)

5 My favorite Browning design was his first machine gun, disaffectionately known at the "Tater Digger" because it was actually an adaptation of his lever action designs that operated via an actuating arm situated over a gas port drilled in the bottom of the barrel. This arm swung quite an arc, making it rather dangerous, and when fired from a bipod, the recoil tended to cause the bipod legs to work their way into the ground until the actuator arm made contact with the ground and began kicking dirt up in the faces of it's operators. Thus "Tater Digger". Pretty much John's worst design, and I think, preferrably forgotten by him.

Posted by: maddogg at July 14, 2013 06:19 AM (AYijY)

6 Mia Farrow's seven stages of Twitter grief is a hoot.

http://tinyurl.com/qzbychr




That's pretty much what she was like after sex too.

Posted by: Woody Allen at July 14, 2013 06:19 AM (Aif/5)

7 Still waiting on my Glock at the FFL. 20 days and counting.

Posted by: HoboJerky at July 14, 2013 06:19 AM (X4HxX)

8 I liked FN's 5.7 idea but the weapons built around it, the P(S)-90 and Five-SeveN where the 90 really only is useful in CQC and the Five-seveN is an expensive and very large pistol.

Posted by: wheelmanforhire at July 14, 2013 06:19 AM (ptf90)

9 One has to wonder if the Democrats were deliberately trying to cause a national crisis in the form of rioting in the cities to justify some new grab at civil liberties..."never let a good crisis go to waste".

Posted by: Canadian Citizen at July 14, 2013 06:20 AM (XHpys)

10 Injustice.

http://tinyurl.com/pqnwyne

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 14, 2013 06:20 AM (VlXYw)

11 I had a rifle and revolver both chambered in .44 mag, but in my experience the supply chain advantage wasn't there. I would load pretty hot rounds for the rifle with comparatively softer rounds for the pistol. The rifle just shot better with rounds that would have broken my wrist if I used them in my revolver.

Posted by: @johntant at July 14, 2013 06:21 AM (GLTPR)

12 I've always wanted a .45 ACP lever action rifle, and thought it would make a wonderful truck gun. No current manufacturer makes 'em though.

Posted by: Sight alignment. Sight picture. at July 14, 2013 06:21 AM (1fe4V)

13 Stand your ground law?  The politicians hate it even here in SC.

Repeat

This is the most idiotic thing I have ever seen the SC Supreme Court do in my 3 decades living here. They have halted a murder trial at the request of the defense based on the SC “Stand Your Ground” law. A home invader shot and killed the homeowner who was pulling a gun. The defendant claimed stand your ground self defense. The trial judge thought that was ridiculous so the lawyer filed for a stay with the SC Supremes. They granted a rare mid trial stay! We truly are living in a land of idiots and it is not just in CA and NY. I have a feeling that they actually don’t give a shit about the trial itself, they want to kill “stand your ground”.

http://tinyurl.com/kfmfe7j

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 06:22 AM (lZvxr)

14 Hey Andy: Any more info about that Mosin Nagant stock conversion kit? Also, with said rifle, do you have to pull the bolt back each time to reload from the magazine or just pull the trigger?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 06:23 AM (+98Gb)

15 Posted by: Canadian Citizen at July 14, 2013 10:20 AM (XHpys)

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 06:24 AM (U22Yw)

16 Andy,

One of the easiest cartridge to find a modern handgun/long gun combo for is the .357 Magnum.  At one time, I remember seeing huge numbers of revolvers chambered in it and there are always lever action rifles in it as well.  I think someone even made a carbine and handgun that used interchangeable mags.

Posted by: MunDane at July 14, 2013 06:24 AM (dH40Z)

17 Don't brink skittles to a gun fight.

Posted by: Travon Martin at July 14, 2013 06:26 AM (rCS6C)

18 Here's one for the horde - what gun can shoot approximately 25 different different cartridges?

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 06:26 AM (8FeS+)

19 12>> I have been looking for a pistol/rifle combo and have settled for a .357; pretty good for short range and ammo is easy enough to come by.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 06:26 AM (57bzg)

20 Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hatchcock. Now THAT'S one crazy ass crack-shot! BTW: Wasn't the BAR sort of notorious for jamming?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 06:27 AM (+98Gb)

21 You can get a 44 mag lever action

http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-big-boy.cfm

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 06:27 AM (lZvxr)

22 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 10:23 AM (+98Gb)


You have to work the bolt after each shot in order to eject the shell casing and load the next round.


http://youtu.be/rmVJYB3uDkc

Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 06:28 AM (U22Yw)

23 18 Here's one for the horde - what gun can shoot approximately 25 different different cartridges? Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 10:26 AM (8FeS+) A 9 iron - but you have to hit it right on the sweet spot.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 06:28 AM (+98Gb)

24 22 Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 10:28 AM (U22Yw) Thanks for the info. Still wanna get one.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 06:28 AM (+98Gb)

25 I just ordered the Remora holster in anticipation of my CC Permit. Anyone here have experience with it? I'm female & it really appealed to me. I don't wear belts and holsters tend to pull my pants down.

Posted by: HungryKitty at July 14, 2013 06:29 AM (+11Gt)

26 So, Reid is ready to have the Federal government enter the Zimmerman fray. I think when the DOJ decides for show trial number two, people just need to decide what they are going to do if they have to. Just decide. Because keeping the marriage may not be possible. Americans should not get put on show trials just to appease chattering classes. And it is something worth fighting for. Especially with this gangster government.

Posted by: T. at July 14, 2013 06:29 AM (VFF1p)

27 Do pistol caliber carbines count?

Posted by: traye at July 14, 2013 06:29 AM (RCSeq)

28 "Around 500 murders have happened in Chicago while the Zimmerman fiasco has been going on, yet there's no attendant media circus. " I understand this from a political level. But it still amazes me that "know it alls" like Jamie Foxx aren't in Chicago, walking the streets, bringing the love and making the hood safe for the brothers. You, know, because Foxx cares or something.

Posted by: mare at July 14, 2013 06:29 AM (A98Xu)

29 The black scary ones.

Posted by: traye at July 14, 2013 06:29 AM (RCSeq)

30 Mia Farrow's seven stages of Twitter grief is a hoot.

Interesting that in short order liberals turn to drugs to deal with life.

Posted by: zsasz at July 14, 2013 06:30 AM (MMC8r)

31 Sefton, the Mosin is a bolt action weapon, meaning that you must operate the bolt after each round to eject the spent casing and load a new cartridge from the 5-round internal magazine.

Posted by: DC in Towson at July 14, 2013 06:31 AM (jIaZt)

32 Does GZ get his CC back and do you think he will be voting Democrat?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 14, 2013 06:31 AM (R8hU8)

33 27 Do pistol caliber carbines count? Posted by: traye at July 14, 2013 10:29 AM (RCSeq) Only the very smart ones.

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 06:32 AM (8FeS+)

34 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 14, 2013 10:28 AM (+98Gb)

They are exceptionally fun to shoot.  Nothing quite like a 3-foot flame from the muzzle when you shoot.  Plus, they almost always come with the bayonet, so if you run out of ammo, you can stab your opponent from across the battlefield.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 06:32 AM (U22Yw)

35 Wish I had stayed up for the Zimm verdict.  It's what I expected, but I was also bracing for the possibility. 

My daughter is pissed at me because I didn't let her go to the mall yesterday evening.  So be it.  What I  need to do to make it up to her is get her to the range with her 9, so she can get more comfortable with it. 

Posted by: BurtTC at July 14, 2013 06:32 AM (BeSEI)

36 Being a CAS enthusiast I have several combinations: 44 Mag in a Ruger SA and Henry Lever,  .357 in S&W DA Revolver and Rossi 92 lever gun, 32-30 in a S&W DA and Winchester 1892 lever gun.  Shooting common ammo between the pairs is fairly easy with light loads with cast bullets.  Of course, I am a reloader who casts his own bullets which has greatly alleviated my supply issues during the past months.  However, if you want to get maximum performance out of your guns you'll probably want to tune them to what ammo works best.  For factory loads, the Hornady Leverevolution works great in the long gun, while I like the Hornady XTP for the handgun.  On the other hand, a 44 caliber 240 grain piece of lead in a light load out of either a handgun or long gun is going to ruin the day of any target which gets hit.  You can find a common load for both guns which will do a decent job.

Posted by: tonycc at July 14, 2013 06:33 AM (wnntm)

37 So what can the DOJ do to Zimmerman now?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 14, 2013 06:34 AM (ZPrif)

38

Regarding the handgun/rifle combo:

I have a Hi-Point 40 S&W Carbine and it is a fun weapon to shoot. Awesome plinking gun.

Like most Hi-Points, it's reliable, heavy and cheap (I also have the Hi-Point 40 S&W pistol).

Posted by: Phat at July 14, 2013 06:35 AM (67fLb)

39 Plenty deer rifles chambered in .44 mag. Legal for use in Indiana.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at July 14, 2013 06:35 AM (qLYdI)

40 I've got 2 pistol caliber carbines, and my favorite by far is the kel-tec sub2k. Not only shares rounds with the glock, but also shares mags. And it folds in half, which is a neat little trick. The hi point is fine, but not as nice.

Posted by: DC in Towson at July 14, 2013 06:35 AM (jIaZt)

41 I'm grateful for the NG verdicts. And I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that GZ would agree that he should've called the police, made his report, then driven away. Make a list of the people for whom you're willing to risk your life and your freedom. If a situation doesn't involve them, its best to avoid it.

Posted by: PabloD at July 14, 2013 06:35 AM (qWANQ)

42 As a white, gun-owning, soon to be concealed-carry holder, I have one big takeaway from the GZ trial. If I have to defend myself, do NOT speak to the cops. GZ was forthcoming with the police, and even though they found him credible and didn't want to charge, they still testified against him.

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at July 14, 2013 06:36 AM (CrJzY)

43 The advantage of carbines is that they shoot "handgun" rounds. Carbines also get a speed increase (because of the longer barrel) of 10 - 20% of the bullet as it leaves the barrel. The disadvantage is that it isn't a rifle round, with the inherent increased energy delivery to target. I've a .40 Shield (small barrel) and will be adding a full size .40 and a carbine in .40 as well. I am thinking that the full size and the carbine will be able to share magazines as well...one advantage of choosing the right combo of handgun & carbine. Carbines increase the effective accuracy and distance of the handgun round, but if you really want to take down large game, you need a good rifle round. -- NB: I did sell off a lot of firearms lately to decrease my dependence on multiple sizes of ammo, though I knew it also meant that I'd also be decreasing my chances of finding ammo. Down to just five different calibers now, though I am thinking I'll add back a sixth soon. IF reloading supplies ever get a little looser, I'm going to start doing that. And I'm thinking I might just have to get a black powder rifle so that junkyard wheel weights, fishing weights and other sources of lead could produce some nice .50 - .70 cal rounds.

Posted by: ProfShadow at July 14, 2013 06:36 AM (Bf1lo)

44 I've fired two different bolt action Mosin Nagants, and they reloaded from the mag by doing the full bolt retract, which also ejects the spent cartridge. Nice old guns. One was a sniper model, very accurate, scope-equipped, a real picket-killer. I'm in TX, lookin at property here, the NY property is sold. Carryin using a Bulldog fanny-pac kit, outfitted with a sideways soft holster fixed inside what looks like an ordinary fanny-pac. All legal, as TX recognizes my NY CCW permit.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at July 14, 2013 06:36 AM (0bmtA)

45 >> Hey Andy: Any more info about that Mosin Nagant stock conversion kit? Not yet. I'll probably put it in next week's thread. The rifle's still a bolt action after the upgrade.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 06:37 AM (li+aS)

46 It is my personal opinion there is a better than even chance Martin in fact was profiled. Correctly. Caught with (most likely) stolen goods at school? Check. Lifestyle and attitudes consistent with slide towards crime? Check. Behavior problems and troubles with authority? Check. Thefts actually occuring in neighborhood? Check. Martin returns for confrontation? Check. So if Zimmerman says Martin appeared to be acting in a manner consistent with someone casing a break-in target, I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt. Political correctness be hanged. I look forward to the DOJ doing round three (the first being the time no charges were filed), because just as the Left views this as a civil rights issue, so do I. The right to be free of withcraft trials.

Posted by: T. at July 14, 2013 06:39 AM (VFF1p)

47 My rifle/handgun combo of choice is the Henry Big Boy/Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag. I generally use the Remington 180 gr. JSP in both.

Posted by: Braineaterbob at July 14, 2013 06:40 AM (o5nuO)

48 Posted by: BurtTC at July 14, 2013 10:32 AM (BeSEI)

Had an argument last night with my wife. Our 21-year-old retard was in Hoboken, and I said he should probably come home early, because the train goes through some very bad places, and it might be smart to get out of the way before the yoots decided to liberate the flat screens and whitey's teeth.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 06:40 AM (gqgiP)

49

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 10:22 AM (lZvxr)

Don't most/all Stand Your ground laws specifically require you be a) legally occupying the space and/or b) Not currently committing unlawful activity?

IANAL, but I think that's a "yes."

 

(I also suspect your average person is going to try to find a way to flee first anyway, as we've pointed out, guns are rarely "one shot, one kill" and never instantaneous, so if your chances of fleeing are better, take them.)

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 06:40 AM (GaqMa)

50 That asshole whoremonger Spitzer just said the justice system failed in the GZ case. There's a massive amount of butthurt this morning among the race grievance industry too. ALL of them are really pushing this Trayvon=civil rights martyr bullshit.

Posted by: stace NOW what?! at July 14, 2013 06:41 AM (DX63t)

51 >> Here's one for the horde - what gun can shoot approximately 25 different different cartridges? One is the T/C Contender. I have one but I'm kind of ignoring it for the purpose of this discussion. I have a Colt SAA in .45 LC and would love to pick up a little lever-action for a cowboy nostalgia combo, although this is pretty half-ass since .45 LC wasn't chambered in rifles back then (at the factory, anyway).

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 06:41 AM (li+aS)

52 Oh boy early gun thread. I guess last weeks MIA got Andy working! I have SEVEN of the Browning guns on the chart. Anyone beat me?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 06:42 AM (wR+pz)

53 Currently looking to add a .308 to the armory. Any suggestions?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 06:43 AM (57bzg)

54 Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 10:43 AM (57bzg)

Remington 700

Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 06:45 AM (U22Yw)

55 Sadly, I doubt the Left and professional racists (Sharpton, Jackson, Obama) will let this go. They are going to repeat this lie and make Trayon Martin's name synonymous with racist America. Hell, a few years from now people will forget that Zimmerman was a hispanic Democrat Obama voter and he'll become a white, right-wing Republican Tea Partier. I sadly expect Democrat politicians to campaign on this for the next decade to stir up the black vote. I predict polls in 2016 will show the LIV believing Zimmerman was a racist white Republican who got off cause racist whites on the jury hate black people cause America=teh racist.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 14, 2013 06:45 AM (ZPrif)

56 Phat, if you're still here, the Mosin stock Sefton was asking about is the one you used on yours and posted at H2. Can you post the details on the stock here?

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 06:46 AM (li+aS)

57 The John Moses Browning Museum in Ogden is excellent. Morons that find themselves in the neighborhood should check it out.

Posted by: Mark formally in Spokane, now in Sandy Ut at July 14, 2013 06:47 AM (xGX1p)

58 With one exception, ALL of my instruments are tuned to use more than one octave- from my Colt LE6620 to my G 9x19; all have a common .22LR capability. True, 22LR has been quite scarce, but overall it's stil one of the cheapest rounds to acquire and most plentiful. My one exception? Remington 870 tactical. Just haven't found a way to fire .22 out of it yet...

Posted by: Mr Wolf at July 14, 2013 06:47 AM (6N1Il)

59 Well, lets make this a gun thread. The M6 shown was a pretty good survival gun if your plane went down and one needed protein. During WWII, the good old fashioned Savage (Stevens) over/under in .22/.410 was provided to bomber crews in the Pacific. Most of these folks were involved in anti sub recon or just plain old recon, and the possibility of ditching while going bingo on fuel was real. The little old Stevens over/under was a logical choice. I have seen them with USAAF markings, and with the Tenite stocks. The tenite had a bad habit of breaking down through the years.

Posted by: Bill at July 14, 2013 06:47 AM (uvyrw)

60 8 I liked FN's 5.7 idea but the weapons built around it, the P(S)-90 and Five-SeveN where the 90 really only is useful in CQC and the Five-seveN is an expensive and very large pistol. I never thought about that. I have a Five-Seven pistol and a PS-90. Nothing like 30 rounds in a pistol. Pistil is not much bigger that 1911 and half the weight. Now IF I could just find some Ammo. Son shot up all my cheap ammo last year,

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 06:47 AM (wR+pz)

61 41 -

Yeah, that's nice, but by the time the guy is on top of you, pounding your head into the pavement, and reaching for your firearm, he's on the list. 

Coulda, shoulda, wouldas at that point don't mean jack. 

Posted by: BurtTC at July 14, 2013 06:47 AM (BeSEI)

62 Don't most/all Stand Your ground laws specifically require you be a) legally occupying the space and/or b) Not currently committing unlawful activity? IANAL, but I think that's a "yes." In black-and-white, no less: http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c011.php Search on 16-11-440 and read (C).

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 06:49 AM (V3kRK)

63

Andy, here's a link to a post I did at the Hostages documenting my Mosin stock conversion:

http://tinyurl.com/q7hlgru

It is the Archangel stock and it is now one badass looking rifle.

Very easy conversion, no gun smithing required. Barrel is a free-float, but they do include a tensioner if you're not happy with the accuracy.

Posted by: Phat at July 14, 2013 06:49 AM (cSDPa)

64 All legal, as TX recognizes my NY CCW permit.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at July 14, 2013 10:36 AM (0bmtA)


You got CC in NY?

1% er

/s

Posted by: real joe, PHD, grievance studies at July 14, 2013 06:50 AM (/RXPS)

65 51 >> Here's one for the horde - what gun can shoot approximately 25 different different cartridges? One is the T/C Contender. I have one but I'm kind of ignoring it for the purpose of this discussion. Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 10:41 AM (li+aS) It can???

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 06:51 AM (8FeS+)

66 Les get our chimp on and start a mothafuckin' RIOT!!!!!11!!!!!

Posted by: Chimpgasm at July 14, 2013 06:51 AM (baF46)

67

As entertaining as it is to watch/listen to the Race Industry, its still a shame that hundreds of youts die every year unnoticed.

Glad the jury had the stones to do the right thing.

Posted by: toodles at July 14, 2013 06:51 AM (lsau0)

68 @64 A CC in NY? How much money did you have to give to Cumo?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 06:51 AM (wR+pz)

69 Posted by: real joe, PHD, grievance studies at July 14, 2013 10:50 AM (/RXPS)


A NYS carry permit does not grant CC in NYC.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 06:51 AM (gqgiP)

70 Jesus SC! in most other states you have no right to self defense in the commission of a crime.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at July 14, 2013 06:52 AM (rAuKJ)

71 My one exception? Remington 870 tactical. Just haven't found a way to fire .22 out of it yet... http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 06:52 AM (V3kRK)

72 do any of you have experience with rifle/handgun combos to put us some f'n knowledge on this topic? **** I like .357 Mag with 110 grain bullets. Load very hot. S&W 626 with 4" is firebreather and the performance in my .357 Winchester Lever is outstanding.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at July 14, 2013 06:52 AM (MhA4j)

73 Marlin made a lever action chambered for the .357, and while legal for deer, I've always considered them to be borderline. Still, I am fortunate to have the luxury of being able to afford ammo for different firearms, so I can't say too much bad about the idea for someone who isn't.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 14, 2013 06:52 AM (xz20X)

74 Am about to order a Walther PPK .32 or .380 for CC.  Moron thoughts?

Posted by: toodles at July 14, 2013 06:53 AM (lsau0)

75 I'm still shocked GZ was found not guilty. I guess I have zero faith in Americans these days. It's nice to be proven wrong every now and then.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at July 14, 2013 06:53 AM (HDgX3)

76 Thanks, Phat. How'd the scope mounting go?

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 06:53 AM (li+aS)

77 48 -

The sun is shining today.  We'll still be on the lookout though, as we head on out the door.  I'm really looking forward to tomorrow, when I show up to work the ignorance will be on display.  I've learned to let it flow, then ask specific questions I know can't be answered.  It's fun. 

Posted by: BurtTC at July 14, 2013 06:53 AM (BeSEI)

78 Son has a 44 mag pistol, waiting, now six months for his 44 rife. Reminds me to call walmart.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 06:54 AM (wR+pz)

79 Don't most/all Stand Your ground laws specifically require you be a) legally occupying the space and/or b) Not currently committing unlawful activity?
IANAL, but I think that's a "yes."

(I also suspect your average person is going to try to find a way to flee first anyway, as we've pointed out, guns are rarely "one shot, one kill" and never instantaneous, so if your chances of fleeing are better, take them.)

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 10:40 AM (GaqMa)



Evidently not in SC or it would not have gone to the SC supremes. 


(A) It is the intent of the General Assembly to codify the common law Castle Doctrine which recognizes that a person's home is his castle and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person's place of business.

(B) The General Assembly finds that it is proper for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others.

(C) The General Assembly finds that Section 20, Article I of the South Carolina Constitution guarantees the right of the people to bear arms, and this right shall not be infringed.

(D) The General Assembly finds that persons residing in or visiting this State have a right to expect to remain unmolested and safe within their homes, businesses, and vehicles.

(E) The General Assembly finds that no person or victim of crime should be required to surrender his personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person or victim be required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or attack.

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 06:54 AM (lZvxr)

80
A NYS carry permit does not grant CC in NYC.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 10:51 AM (gqgiP)



NYC is like their own little kingdom. Not required to follow the US constitution in any respect.

Posted by: real joe, PHD, grievance studies at July 14, 2013 06:56 AM (/RXPS)

81 Am about to order a Walther PPK .32 or .380 for CC. Moron thoughts? Posted by: toodles at July 14, 2013 10:53 AM (lsau0) .380 is nice, Mrs. sailor has a Sig. It's basically a 9mm short. More stopping power than a .32. However it is bigger not as easily concealed.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at July 14, 2013 06:57 AM (XIxXP)

82 I agree completely regarding the implications of State v. Zimmerman on 2nd Amendment and self-defense issues. The (bogus) race component gave the worthies the excuse for a show trial, but you can bet those same worthies were gleefully considering how many CCW permit holders or others would think twice about self-defense should the situation warrant it. After all, how many of us would want to risk a Murder conviction even if we did everything right. All it takes is for the DOJ and MSM to get involved and hello, insolvency at best.

Posted by: RS at July 14, 2013 06:57 AM (YAGV/)

83 Regarding the 25 different calibres - it is the Medusa Model 47 Revolver.

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 06:58 AM (8FeS+)

84 I've got a Marlin 1894sc in .357 matched to a Colt Trooper. I also have a 9mm Luger with an HP 995ts in 9. My wife has a 1022 with an International stock matched to a Walther P22 with a laser sight. Nothing yet to match the .45 Kimber or .380 Makarov. I've got an AR as well, shotgun, SKS, and SMLE. I could use a rifle in 30-06.

Posted by: Trainer says Hi NSA at July 14, 2013 06:58 AM (+8dqP)

85 I could use a rifle in 30-06. Posted by: Trainer says Hi NSA at July 14, 2013 10:58 AM (+8dqP) Very nice, your third world dictator starter set is almost complete.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at July 14, 2013 06:59 AM (XIxXP)

86 Same round: the 1911 Colt, and the Thompson Submachine Gun. Obviously, the latter requires a full-auto license; but they do use the same .45 round.

I've also heard tell of a AK-47 that's been rechambered to take a 12-gauge shell; it's nicknamed the "street-sweeper".

Posted by: Brown Line at July 14, 2013 07:00 AM (a5bF3)

87 On FL vs GZ, rapper Lupe Fiasco had a twitter feed that was a sight to behold. Basically chastised his own for their outrage over a verdict and then the fun started.

Posted by: CAC at July 14, 2013 07:00 AM (TJHn3)

88 "I've got a Marlin 1894sc in .357 matched to a Colt Trooper." I am envious..........

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 07:00 AM (57bzg)

89 >> Currently looking to add a .308 to the armory. Any suggestions? Springfield Armory M1A. No need to even think twice about this. Unless you mean a bolt action, in which case I'm partial to the Remington 700.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 07:02 AM (li+aS)

90

Andy,

I ran into a problem getting the 'Brass Stacker' scope mount to attach over the existing iron sights.

On some Mosin's getting the old iron sights off was a simple matter of tapping out two pins, but in some factories the pins were welded in. Mine were welded.

Have to wait until I can get a machinist bud of mine get them out. Maybe next week.

Posted by: Phat at July 14, 2013 07:03 AM (3cY3/)

91 We all know Eric Holder is the biggest pussy Uncle tom there is. there is no way in hell bhe has the balls to prosecute Zimmerman on a federal civil rights charge. Because he is stupid. C'mon Eric, grow some nads and prosecute George Zimmerman.

Posted by: NAACP at July 14, 2013 07:03 AM (baF46)

92 Gun threads need arty. I think the basic takeaway from the Zimmerman trial that the African-American community of certain strata need to take to heart is that regardless of whatever issues some black youth have, no one else's rights are going to be reduced to accommodate those issues. Because that is basically what the activists are asking for. Ignoring some realities. We have simply got to assume George Zimmerman saw something of a level that the reasonable man would say was suspicious. Everything else we know of Martin supports this. Period. Black men have also got to realize they have no right to attack others because of whatever "disrespect" they think they are getting from society. Because I am having a hard time not thinking Martin came back looking for a fight.

Posted by: T. at July 14, 2013 07:04 AM (VFF1p)

93 That poster of "The Guns of John Browning" is all the more spectacular when you realize it is not even a complete list.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 14, 2013 07:05 AM (xz20X)

94 >> It can??? Yes. I have .22LR, .30-30 and .223 barrels. The options are essentially unlimited, from .17 HMR to .45-70 (and a shitload of wildcat calibers to boot).

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 07:06 AM (li+aS)

95

9 One has to wonder if the Democrats were deliberately trying to cause a national crisis in the form of rioting in the cities to justify some new grab at civil liberties..."never let a good crisis go to waste".

 

I know. Dang Whats it going to take?

Posted by: Charlie Manson at July 14, 2013 07:07 AM (N3Al8)

96 M1A

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 11:02 AM (li+aS)

I'm a lefty, so my preference is a modern reversible bolt rifle.

http://tinyurl.com/oqlnv4f

FN SCAR 17

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:07 AM (gqgiP)

97 Toodles the PPK/PPKs has a worrisome rep as a jammer.  IIRC Prince Charles' junked theirs after every single one of them drawn jammed during a single incident.

So if Los Angeles isn't going to go up in flames can I shoot off some of this ammo I've been stocking up?  I could really use the bedroom back and the cat is getting majorly twitchy with all the secondaries when he knocks shit over...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at July 14, 2013 07:08 AM (qvify)

98 Am about to order a Walther PPK .32 or .380 for CC. Moron thoughts? Posted by: toodles at July 14, 2013 10:53 AM (lsau0) Bought a PPKS in .380 a couple of years ago. Has the same safety as my S&W 9mm. Nice gun a s far as I am concerned. The PPK can fire with the magazine removed, the S&W will not fire with the mag. removed

Posted by: Cicero Skip at July 14, 2013 07:08 AM (7kEYw)

99 Anyone heard of MechTech before? They make carbine uppers for 1911 and Glock pistol lowers. Possible alternative to the Hi-Point carbine.

Posted by: Rule #2 at July 14, 2013 07:09 AM (eNk8l)

100 BTW, 4 guns in 7 calibers.  Not sure how that happened.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at July 14, 2013 07:09 AM (qvify)

101 94 >> It can??? Yes. I have .22LR, .30-30 and .223 barrels. The options are essentially unlimited, from .17 HMR to .45-70 (and a shitload of wildcat calibers to boot). Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 11:06 AM (li+aS) Oh, I should have worded the question better. What firearm can shoot approximately 25 different cartridges with no changes to the firearm.

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 07:10 AM (8FeS+)

102 Toodles: sorry, Prince Charles' SECURITY DETAIL

Posted by: richard mcenroe at July 14, 2013 07:11 AM (qvify)

103 , do any of you have experience with rifle/handgun combos to put us some f'n knowledge on this topic? No personal knowledge but I like the Kel Tec sub 2000 in .40 The .40 is quite powerful with the long barrel carbine and is very good in a pistol.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 14, 2013 07:11 AM (5YUSx)

104 I have a ppk 32. Nice gun, but heavy. My Seacamp 32 has as many rounds is half the size and weight. Course, hitting something with a pp will be a hell of a lot easier if they are more that five feet away. Ths Seacamp? Better be next to them.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 07:12 AM (wR+pz)

105 Posted by: real joe, PHD, grievance studies at July 14, 2013 10:56 AM (/RXPS)

It might be an interesting court case however. NYS grants a CC permit, but a city doesn't recognize it? I'll bet there is something in the NYS constitution that says something about the supremacy of state law.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:12 AM (gqgiP)

106 Coming up next on MSNBC (I swear this is real): MH-P will share the test for determining whether you are motivated by race even if you don't know it. I can't wait to hear the dogs listening to this whistle.

Posted by: Blacksheep at July 14, 2013 07:13 AM (bS6uW)

107

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 10:52 AM (V3kRK)

 

Yeah...that just seems like a bad idea for the Mossberg (although the weight of it means I'd get zero kick on a .22 round.)

 

@Vic,

Front Toward left linked the code up above, it seems like it does in fact cover "lawfully present to be."

And intruder is not that.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 07:13 AM (GaqMa)

108 @103 ha ha. You think NYC cops give a shit about the NY or US constitution? What are you smoking.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 07:13 AM (wR+pz)

109 Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 11:10 AM (8FeS+)

.357 Magnum revolver.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:14 AM (gqgiP)

110

A lot of democrats this morning are calling for a federal civil rights prosecution against Zimmerman.

I'm getting sick and tired of the democrats and black community constantly attacking this Hispanic guy.

War on Hispanics!

Posted by: uncle jj at July 14, 2013 07:14 AM (J04bt)

111 Holder will do what "his people" tell him to do. Because of the "conversation on race" in it. Cowards.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 14, 2013 07:14 AM (ylG8S)

112 My favorite gun right now is a Kel tec .380 I carry like it's a wallet. I carry it with me everywhere and at all times. Running , gym , etc. Only time I don't have on me is the pool or shower.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at July 14, 2013 07:15 AM (j2X6g)

113 DA's still defiantly stating Z killed M and profiled him. They won't give it up. Dickheads

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 07:15 AM (wR+pz)

114 Marlin and others make lever guns in 357, 41 and 44 mag, plenty of revolvers that shoot the same.  44 mag with Hornady Leverevolution in a Marlin 1894 will take a whitetail down past 150 yards (from personal experience)

Ruger used to make a PC9 and PC4 carbine in 9mm and 40 cal that used the same mag as their P series pistols.  You can find someused  at gun shows, the cops used to use the PC4 before they went the AR15 route.

Just Right Carbines has 40 cal and 9 mm carbines that use Glock mags

Hi Point makes 9 and 40 carbines, but not sure of what type of mag they use..

Posted by: Edd Zachary at July 14, 2013 07:16 AM (A4q00)

115

Posted by: Blacksheep at July 14, 2013 11:13 AM (bS6uW)

 

Thinking all whites are racists: somehow not an unjust stereotype.

I've said it before, I certainly am motivated by *appearances* but this does not equal "race."

I see a white dude dressed urban gangster like, I'm more likely to be cautious of him than I am of a black due in a nice looking three piece suit.

That's just life though.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 07:16 AM (GaqMa)

116

Zimmerman needs to get out of the USA right now. Get himself to a country that does not have an extradition treaty with us. Then write his book and live comfortably.

 

I don't see how he can possibly stay here. The race hustlers will never let him go.

Posted by: uncle jj at July 14, 2013 07:16 AM (J04bt)

117 Smith and Wesson .357 mag. revolver + Winchester Mod 1873 rifle.  Great "ranch" combo, - perfect for short range hunting and varmint control.

Also shoots .38 special.

Posted by: Fritz at July 14, 2013 07:17 AM (G9Mmf)

118 Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 11:15 AM (wR+pz)

This crap about profiling is ridiculous. Where does it say that it is illegal to profile? Zimmerman isn't the state, he is a private citizen.

Of course Zimmerman didn't profile anyone...he examined Traytable's behavior and found it suspicious.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:18 AM (gqgiP)

119 So, according to Corey, going to Target is grounds for Murder 2 and civil rights violations.

Posted by: Fox2! at July 14, 2013 07:18 AM (XFTOV)

120 Had an argument last night with my wife. Our 21-year-old retard was in Hoboken, and I said he should probably come home early, because the train goes through some very bad places, and it might be smart to get out of the way before the yoots decided to liberate the flat screens and whitey's teeth.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 10:40 AM (gqgiP)


Good advice. I call the train routes in north jersey "the intestines" because you see lots of shit on the journey.

Posted by: Berserker at July 14, 2013 07:18 AM (FMbng)

121 One has to wonder if the Democrats were deliberately trying to cause a national crisis in the form of rioting in the cities to justify some new grab at civil liberties..."never let a good crisis go to waste". Even ignoring the policy angle, leftard actors stand to gain a shitload on a personal/individual basis by fanning these flames. Sharpton (Freddie's Fashion Mart) and Jackson (smeared MLK's blood on himself) have done really well for themselves at this game. There are plenty of people who would kill to be agitating in the right place at the right time with enough intensity to secure themselves just such a lifestyle.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 07:19 AM (V3kRK)

122

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 11:18 AM (gqgiP)

 

Heh this sounds exactly like when my dad followed a guy through his neighborhood.

There were 2 of our neighbors up on a roof screaming at each other while trying to do repairs and this guy walked and didn't even look up at it (and it was a sight of weirdness.)

My dad said "huh, that's suspicious."  Guy made 2 more trips around our cul-de-sac and so dad followed him.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 07:19 AM (GaqMa)

123

Skittles and iced tea are often mixed with cough syrup to make a mixture called "purple drank" used by some to get drunk/high. The tea and Skittles bought by Trayvon had not been consumed.

 

I actually like Skittles, and when I buy them I eat them immediately.

 

I never save them to mix with cough syrup.

Posted by: uncle jj at July 14, 2013 07:20 AM (J04bt)

124

Andy, I looked at an M1 and a Remington 700. Not entirely outta my price range but the diversity of quality is well....diverse. I haven't seen a well maintained, high quality M1 for less than $1200 but if I'm gonna spend that coin, I wanna hold it, tear it down and inspect it, then go shoot it.

 

The Remington looks classic and shoots well but its bolt action. I'm shooting deer and hogs so I am wavering towards the Remington, but i would like to hear some more input.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 07:21 AM (Os+6p)

125 101 94 Oh, I should have worded the question better. What firearm can shoot approximately 25 different cartridges with no changes to the firearm. Posted by: RWC 12 gauge shotgun. probably more than 25.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 14, 2013 07:21 AM (5YUSx)

126

Regarding the Walther:

I recently acquired a Bersa Thunder 380. It's a Argentine copy that is very nice little shooter. Look through YouTube for some clips.

I like it because it has the same safety as my Mil-issue M-9.

Posted by: Phat at July 14, 2013 07:21 AM (cSDPa)

127 @Vic,
Front Toward left linked the code up above, it seems like it does in fact cover "lawfully present to be."
And intruder is not that.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 11:13 AM (GaqMa)



I posted the SC code at #78. Home, buisness, and vehicles.  However, the SC supreme court has taken the case for the intruder shooting the home owner.  The trial court threw it out originally and one wonders how an intruder got "home, buisness, or vehicle:.

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 07:22 AM (lZvxr)

128

I agree with the comment on profiling above.

 

If it's a problem to "profile" then a neighbor watch guy (or cop, whatever) can only follow suspicious white males. Any other action is a civil rights violation.

Posted by: uncle jj at July 14, 2013 07:22 AM (J04bt)

129 Yay! I get a hat tip! I'd love to get my hands on a Marlin Camp 45 (discontinued) although I understand that the plastic trigger housing is a bit fragile. Also, Ruger used to make semiauto carbines in 9mm and .40 (PC9 and PC4), as well as 44 Mag. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Police_Carbine http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/99/44

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 14, 2013 07:22 AM (MBqvE)

130

@Vic,

 

Well if the intruder had had a few more minutes the vehicle in the garage was about to be his .

And for a thief someone else's home is their place of business.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 07:23 AM (GaqMa)

131 Oh, man, this would make a great .308 hog gun: http://goo.gl/456wQ

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 07:24 AM (li+aS)

132 Best value on a long gun that can be used as a sniper or hunting or defense is a Remington 7600 pump in .308.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at July 14, 2013 07:24 AM (KdfFa)

133 Protests today in NYC, Boston, Chicago and San Fran Not heard about LA, Miami or Houston

Posted by: Thunderb at July 14, 2013 07:24 AM (zOTsN)

134 Anybody know if that "gun denouncer" app screens info at all? Because someone *could*, y'know, swamp it with false data. Signal to noise and all that. I can think of some specific addresses where the residents have been very unsafe with guns, IYKWIMAITYD. More importantly, I'm interested in getting a reflex sight, like the Aimpoint Micro T-1 but I'm leery of AimPoint's >$600 prices. Anyone know of something decent but not as expensive? (I'm also leery of sub $100 reflex sights, probably made of melamine and radioactive steel from China)

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at July 14, 2013 07:25 AM (wfSF5)

135 Thanks for sending that, ITC. I had to call my doctor after 4 hours.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 07:25 AM (li+aS)

136 I would not be near or through Newark this weekend

Posted by: Thunderb at July 14, 2013 07:26 AM (zOTsN)

137 "Obama needs to get involved" now that Zimmerman is not guilty. Barry got involved with his stupid comment before. You know, I wish the decent people in this country had the unity and cajones to say, "If this goes further, there's going to be trouble" and mean it.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 14, 2013 07:26 AM (V1ZIU)

138 Oh, and if anyone was wondering - BB made it through the night unscathed. Popped in late, late last night.

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 07:26 AM (8FeS+)

139 Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 11:21 AM (Os+6p)

There are a few aftermarket M1 shops that will clean up a clunker with new furniture, operating rod, trigger job, etc. They are pricey, but it may be worth it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:26 AM (gqgiP)

140 Oh, and if anyone was wondering - BB made it through the night unscathed. Popped in late, late last night.



Thank God.

Posted by: Adam at July 14, 2013 07:27 AM (Aif/5)

141 Posted by: Thunderb at July 14, 2013 11:26 AM (zOTsN)

Why is this weekend different than all other weekends?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:27 AM (gqgiP)

142 Sabrina @132: eotech sights. Cant beat em.

Posted by: Mr Wolf at July 14, 2013 07:28 AM (6N1Il)

143 There were 2 of our neighbors up on a roof screaming at each other while trying to do repairs and this guy walked and didn't even look up at it (and it was a sight of weirdness.) My dad said "huh, that's suspicious." Guy made 2 more trips around our cul-de-sac and so dad followed him. Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 11:19 AM (GaqMa) Wow. You're just going to leave us hanging like that??? What happened?

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 07:28 AM (8FeS+)

144 133 Thanks for sending that, ITC. I had to call my doctor after 4 hours. Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 11:25 AM (li+aS) Funny, I had about the same reaction.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 14, 2013 07:29 AM (MBqvE)

145 119 Jackson (smeared MLK's blood on himself) Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 11:19 AM (V3kRK) ----------------- Actually, eyewitnesses said that Jackson never was anywhere near MLK's body. The blood or blood substitute had to have been obtained elsewhere. I recall Jackson had a white cotton sweater on for maximum visibility of the blotch.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 14, 2013 07:29 AM (LJ2uj)

146 However, the SC supreme court has taken the case for the intruder shooting the home owner. The trial court threw it out originally and one wonders how an intruder got "home, buisness, or vehicle:. "Stand your ground" is in addition to castle. The problem is that the stand-your-ground part of your code explicitly says (bolding mine): A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60. It would take a black robe to make an idiot dumb enough to claim the intruder was not engaged in unlawful activity or in a place where he has a right to be. If I had access to the trigger button for that bomb those mutants were worshiping in Beneath the Planet of the Apes, I'd be standing on it.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 07:29 AM (V3kRK)

147 $558

http://tinyurl.com/qxdfpxy

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 07:30 AM (lZvxr)

148 So if zimmerman was found guilty would that mean if I was walking down the street and some guy was behind me I could just turn around and beat the crap out of him?

Posted by: Cicero Skip at July 14, 2013 07:30 AM (7kEYw)

149 I live in Mexifornia  where DR. Funstein say's....you can not have a Pistol that shoots a Rifled Cartridge...
Example that wonderful snake charmer Pistola called The Judge in 45LC and 410...

Posted by: Milkey the Clown at July 14, 2013 07:30 AM (xVcsd)

150 I have an M6 -- chambered .410 and .22 Hornet

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 14, 2013 07:31 AM (lm0Rv)

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 07:31 AM (4+PCd)

152 What Obama needs to do to bring the country together.

http://tinyurl.com/nn2jk8h

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 14, 2013 07:31 AM (VlXYw)

153 40 I've got 2 pistol caliber carbines, and my favorite by far is the kel-tec sub2k. Not only shares rounds with the glock, but also shares mags. And it folds in half, which is a neat little trick.

Posted by: DC in Towson at July 14, 2013 10:35 AM (jIaZt)


----------------------------


You have a SUB2000? I thought they were a myth, like unicorns. I badly want a Beretta 92-compatible one.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 07:31 AM (celt+)

154 Andy, I looked at an M1 and a Remington 700. Not entirely outta my price range but the diversity of quality is well....diverse. I haven't seen a well maintained, high quality M1 for less than $1200 but if I'm gonna spend that coin, I wanna hold it, tear it down and inspect it, then go shoot it.

The Remington looks classic and shoots well but its bolt action. I'm shooting deer and hogs so I am wavering towards the Remington, but i would like to hear some more input.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 11:21 AM (Os+6p)


I love the heavy barreled 700 they make, you can practically go in the same hole at 100 yards all day long.

Posted by: Berserker at July 14, 2013 07:34 AM (FMbng)

155 Great poster/JPG and it blows up real good!

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at July 14, 2013 07:34 AM (9zx9u)

156 Anyone know of something decent but not as expensive? I went with a Trijicon reflex (fiber + tritium) a few years back after doing a lot of research, but appears that pricing is not that much less.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 14, 2013 07:35 AM (V3kRK)

157

Actually, eyewitnesses said that Jackson never was anywhere near MLK's body. The blood or blood substitute had to have been obtained elsewhere. I recall Jackson had a white cotton sweater on for maximum visibility of the blotch.

 

 

That Jesse Jackson story is like the  Kurt Schilling  Bloody Sock Story (in Boston).   

Posted by: garrett at July 14, 2013 07:35 AM (6rptg)

158 @120 Posted by: tsrblke at July 14, 2013 11:19 AM (GaqMa) Were you a writer for The Sopranos?

Posted by: Gran at July 14, 2013 07:35 AM (0pcT0)

159 Incidentally, the gun-grabbers are trying to play "Coffee Party" again:
https://tinyurl.com/obasgqt (links to U.S. News and World Report)

Here's another link, this time to Truth About Guns:
https://tinyurl.com/m4g59yn

Evidently the "American Rifle and Pistol Association" is a leftard front group.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 14, 2013 07:36 AM (U22Yw)

160

I think we should employ the race whores' tactics and show how ridiculous they are.

 

Marches, boycotts, etc.

 

Today's march: white people against black vs. Hispanic violence in  our communities.

Posted by: uncle jj at July 14, 2013 07:37 AM (J04bt)

161 Top middle of the Browning chart - the Remington Model 17 is a semi-auto rifle? Who knew? I guess the pump is for clearing jams or something.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 07:38 AM (celt+)

162 I'm too lazy to read all the comments but in case no one else has pointed this out the M6 was .22 Hornet not .22 Long Rifle.

Posted by: FADAC at July 14, 2013 07:41 AM (PpzIB)

163 I have SEVEN of the Browning guns on the chart.

Anyone beat me?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 10:42 AM (wR+pz)


--------------------

Only two - the 1911 and the Hi-Power, and the Hi-Power really is more of a Dieudonne Saive effort.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 07:42 AM (celt+)

164

"I love the heavy barreled 700 they make, you can practically go in the same hole at 100 yards all day long."

 

I try to snipe the hogs from 200 yards max. Anything more requires a scope...at least for me at this age. I would be OK with a bolt, but man it would be sport to take down more than 1 or 2 before they scatter.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 07:42 AM (4Vr+0)

165 finished justin halpern's "i suck at girls" there were some funny parts but i wouldn't recommend it...on the whole it was meh started Chris Kyle's "American Gun, A History of the US in Ten Firearms"

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at July 14, 2013 07:43 AM (8JJ6O)

166

I have SEVEN of the Browning guns on the chart.

Anyone beat me?

 

My dad.  But alas, he's no moron.   I only have 3.

 

 

Posted by: garrett at July 14, 2013 07:43 AM (6rptg)

167 dear God, my post was only half appropriate....thought it was the book thread

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at July 14, 2013 07:44 AM (8JJ6O)

168 125 @Vic,
I posted the SC code at #78. Home, buisness, and vehicles. However, the SC supreme court has taken the case for the intruder shooting the home owner. The trial court threw it out originally and one wonders how an intruder got "home, buisness, or vehicle:.
   He was a burglar : he was in his place of business????

Posted by: PMRich at July 14, 2013 07:47 AM (KDUNf)

169 I think Ruger used to make a single action revolver in .30 carbine.  With an M1 carbine, prolly a good combination for close-in coyotes.  By "close-in", I mean: round the corner of the house and catch one chowing down on the garbage can he just tipped over.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at July 14, 2013 07:51 AM (ymovd)

170 121 Hm, why is this not surprising to hear? /charge the state prosecutor whose argument qualifies HIM as a propagandist promoting “child wreckless endangerment” -- hey kiddies, go buy yourselves Skittles and Tea... it's harmless, it's fine, it's good...it's ALL AMERICAN. Here comes Insanity McCain, "We MUST make ALL over the counter purchases illegal without a Doctor's Prescription!" ... Comprehensive Legislative Reform Packages are FOR THE CHILDREN!" as if that prevents kids/adults from abusing medicine out of the home cabinet.

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 07:54 AM (MhA4j)

171 - Pepper spray - Stun gun - 30" walking cane I think Zimmerman's actions were correct, but having to start with hand-to-hand, and the next step being a firearm ... ... pulling out and using a can of pepper spray is real easy, compared to a .45, and much less traceable, in case continuing on one's way is determined to be preferable. The cane is for emphasis, should it be needed, and to make the carrier look "creaky". The stun gun is for real-close backup.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 14, 2013 07:54 AM (FlRtG)

172 "So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 07:54 AM (gqgiP)

173 In my collection I have a Winchester 94 & SW65 (38/357). The Winchester is very accurate plinker. Load a 357 case with a 180 grain semi-jacketed soft point and it is a white tail slayer out to 75- 100 yards. IMO, its unlikely Team Obama will pursue charges against GZ. Them 6 wise women would be tainted by such a move and white hispanics would be pissed.

Posted by: angel with a sword at July 14, 2013 07:58 AM (EO34X)

174 Of course Zimmerman didn't profile anyone...he examined Traytable's behavior and found it suspicious. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 14, 2013 11:18 AM (gqgiP) That is why I wanted them to bring in the THC to show St Trayvon was stoned, just like Z thought.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 07:59 AM (wR+pz)

175 162 "I love the heavy barreled 700 they make, you can practically go in the same hole at 100 yards all day long." Son shot a 428 Lb Bear with one, 308. Has Zeiss scope, which cost more than gun. Why not have the best? It will last his lifetime.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 08:03 AM (wR+pz)

176 Despite the lack of immediate riots, I don't think the acquittal backlash has been averted. It will happen in many places, at many times in the future. A small part of a diffuse, on-going retaliation can kill you just as dead as a massive riot. The immense damage sought by race-baiting charlatans, political operators and the media has been inflicted according to plan. This is a lasting change. Vigilance and caution should not be relaxed at this time.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 14, 2013 08:04 AM (LJ2uj)

177 Morning gang...

I'm debating getting sweetheart grips made for the FEG 9mm or the S+W 5906 I'm looking at....

Sweetheart Grips were made from Lucite from downed planes in WW2 and Korea mostly and allowed the user to see their magazine or....more often...pretty up their sidearm with a photo...

http://tinyurl.com/oa7vl9a

An example on a 1911 with a bombshell...

of course some guys were a little more focused....

http://tinyurl.com/no85vun

I hope he made it home to her ok...

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 14, 2013 08:07 AM (LRFds)

178 Here's one for the horde - what gun can shoot approximately 25 different different cartridges?

Posted by: RWC at July 14, 2013 10:26 AM (8FeS+)


I suspect you are talking about the Phillips and Rogers Medusa 47.


Interesting facts Jonathan Phillips (the gun's designer and the  Phillips in Phillips and Rogers) played right tackle on the Red Elementary football team in 1958 - I played right guard, next to him.

Both of us wound up working as engineers at Nasa - not only in the same building, but across the hall from each other.

According to Jonathan: his partner had around 190 million dollars. His accountant suggested that he diversify his investments - maybe buy some shares in a bank - for example. So he bought about $10,000 worth in a local bank. What he didn't realize is that the shares made him a partner in the bank. The other partners immediately stole all the banks assets and fled the country - leaving Jonathan's partner holding the bag. The Feds moved in and seized his entire 190 million dollar fortune to pay the debts of the bank. This is why the Medusa is no longer in production.


Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] . An Observation at July 14, 2013 08:09 AM (ylhEn)

179 Most of the people in my FB feed who are upset about the verdict are white women. I think I'm going to tell them what happened to their chances of being helped by a good Samaritan should they be attacked by anyone darker than Ron Howard.

Posted by: Oschisms at July 14, 2013 08:10 AM (pfVS8)

180 I want that Browning poster!

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of Sir Robert of Cheshire available on Amazon Kindle at July 14, 2013 08:10 AM (0SmH0)

181 Greetings: My dear departed father had a love affair with Mr. Browning's Automatic Rifle from 1942-1945. He called her Barb.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 14, 2013 08:17 AM (imo+W)

182 "I think Zimmerman's actions were correct," He did nothing illegal. As for correct? Hm, with a few points to avoid. Who the hell, after a horrible experience, doesn't learn something to prevent the worst from happening again, but stays stuck on stupid thinking they'd do it exactly the same if they had it to do over again? And that certainly includes saying ANYTHING without your defense attorney present. Everyone concerned with him told Zimmerman to button it up, but he wouldn't listen to his legal counsel, or his dad or uncle, to remain silent and have your attorney present always, following legal counsel before answering ANYTHING for anyone, including Sean Hannity. Whenever you call 911, don't use ugly "hate crime" language that will make you out to be racist should the recording be used against you by the police, or in a court of law. Every word you say will be twisted by police and prosecutors in order to frame you with guilt, especially if they belong to a political cohort determined to MAKE you guilty of murder. If you are following a stranger that you're pretty sure doesn't belong in your apt. complex, and lose sight of the stranger whom you think is likely a burglar or thug, beware of your surroundings. Don't ignore the shrubs, shadows, corners hiding places; they're your blind spots. It isn't as if you don't see the bush, tree, whatever as you approach and pass it. Give yourself more room passing potential points of ambush. You know better than to let someone come at you out of the blue if indeed you think that the stranger is up to no good. If you're on neighborhood watch patrol, have a partner to verify your account. If you're alone, bear in mind it will be your word against a bunch of assholes should something go amiss. People leave you twisting in the wind when it comes to doing the right thing for another person suffering an act of violence. NO ONE CAME OUT TO HELP. They never do, as a rule. So much for the neighbors in the watch group living withing the sound of the commotion, suddenly deaf blind and mute. And expect the police to be confrontational with whomever is on the scene of a commotion, especially a shooting. Expect the worst case scenario in advance. Then take "correct" actions, all things considered. Yes, hind sight is 20/20. But only a fool refuses to learn by anything but his own experience /misadventures.

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 08:20 AM (MhA4j)

183 179 11b40,

Heh my M-203 was Elizabeth Ann

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 14, 2013 08:20 AM (LRFds)

184 Harry Reid has weighed in on the verdict saying it isn't over... Fed will be looking into to this "travesty." On what grounds Harry you miserable little piece of shit? Makes me sick...

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at July 14, 2013 08:24 AM (9+ccr)

185 Of course Zimmerman didn't profile anyone...he examined Traytable's behavior and found it suspicious. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo I would be surprised if Zimmerman hadn't already made it a point to know his neighbors by sight. That was his thing. To know his neighbors, and try to make his neighborhood safer. Trayvon was not a resident. Neither was his dad. Trayvon was visiting his dad's girlfriend's apt. while she wasn't even home. No one in Trayvon's "Martin" family was on the lease. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. But that was what was reported early in Zimmerman's defense.

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 08:26 AM (MhA4j)

186 Cheap reflex sights: I have a Sightmark reflex sight on my FS2000. It works quite well, but I don't bang it around all that much. It's definitely a cheaper alternative to the Eotechs and Aimpoints. http://www.sightmark.com/catalog/reflex-sights .308 rifles: Remington 700s are the standard by which everyone measures. The Savage 10 rifles are a little easier on the wallet and will get the job done. If you've got the funds, look into a Steyr Scout. I have one and it's a work of art. It is, however, limited to about 300 yards while the Rem 700s and Savages can do 1k with the right work done to 'em. Of course, if you want to really spend the bucks... I drool over a DTA Covert in .308. But I don't have $4k to spend on a rifle. Pistol/rifle combos: Years ago, I took a class with a borrowed Special Weapons SW45. It was basically an MP5 clone chambered in .45 cal. They have a reputation for not being reliable, but this one did great except for one magazine not wanting to stay in. It ran circles around the other guns in the class using the AR platform (but we were shooting no further than 50 feet). I always did like the MP5 platform. I suppose the P90/FN57 is the new version of the interchangeable ammo platform. If they could solve the lack of 5.7mm ammo problem that would make a lot of sense.

Posted by: Darkmage at July 14, 2013 08:27 AM (OzlnR)

187 73  ABSOLUTELY.  Get an XD9sc or an XDs instead

Posted by: DAve at July 14, 2013 08:27 AM (albkL)

188 182. Fed will be looking into to this "travesty." Feds paid good money to see Zimmerman MADE guilty as charged. /they want a refund? Nah, "reset".

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 08:27 AM (MhA4j)

189 In this post-Constitutional era, you don't need grounds.

"Show me the man, I'll find the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 14, 2013 08:28 AM (lm0Rv)

190 Johnathan also pointed out some interesting facts about pistols. Revolvers have to be made to extremely tight tolerances. The gap between the cylinder and the barrel has to be very small to keep too much power from escaping. The cylinder machining has to be very precise so that the mechanism for turning the cylinder exactly lines up the round to be fired with the barrel. This means the mechanism also has to be machined to very tight tolerances.


An automatic has to be made to loose tolerances - on the other hand - or otherwise it won't work, the friction will keep it from functioning properly if the parts fit tightly like a revolver.


This is also true of lens in cameras. Auto focus lens have to be made with sloppy fit compared to a manual focus lenses; the motor that focuses an auto focus camera lens is very weak compared to a hand. As a result modern auto focus lens feel "cheap" compared to manual focus lenses from the 1970's.

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] . An Observation at July 14, 2013 08:30 AM (ylhEn)

191 @167 Yep, Ruger made the Blackhawk (or was it the Super Blackhawk?) in .30 carbine. I had a case of the wants for that gun back in the 80's.

Posted by: Braineaterbob at July 14, 2013 08:34 AM (o5nuO)

192 Looks like my seven on the chart is going to win! I am surprised.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 08:37 AM (wR+pz)

193 185 Darkmage,

http://youtu.be/U_-GPNTxiBo

See All Open Sight...

I purchased one of these and am planning on testing it on the wife's 16" AR Carbine....

Then probably my Rem 870P

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 14, 2013 08:40 AM (LRFds)

194 184 sven, thanks for the brief: Be first to call 911. First call assumed by police to stipulate the victim. 1. Point out your assailant. 2. Tell Police you will "sign the complaint". 3. Point out evidence. 4. Point out witnesses. 5. Will give full cooperation in 24 hours after speaking with legal cousel. TX Carry Permit Course advice, "Officer, I was afraid for my life."

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 08:40 AM (MhA4j)

195 The FN 5.7 is a carbine specific round that the built a pistol to fire. 50 round in the carbine and 30 in the pistol. The ammo is compact and light so carrying extra is no problem. Penetration is excellent if the "cop killer" hysteria is ever lifted you can use ammo specifically designed to defeat light body armor.

Any discussion about "2 gun, 1 caliber" that doesn't address the FN 5.7 seems like someone is afraid of exposing their favorite to competition from something specifically designed to address that very issue.

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 14, 2013 08:46 AM (af5xa)

196 Sadly [Rather, to his credit] Zimmerman did MOST post shoot things correctly. sven, hence, despite the odds set by Obama, the Feds and State against Zimmerman, he won the case. And btw, re: "post-Constitutional era" don't feed the line. Starve it rather than feed it, purp. The JURY of citizens still managed to exercise blind justice rather than play post-constitutional dupes of authoritarians running their circus.

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 08:46 AM (MhA4j)

197 What if Trayvon's dad was the guy responsible for all the breakins that led up to this incident?

Posted by: DAve at July 14, 2013 08:51 AM (albkL)

198 Any discussion about "2 gun, 1 caliber" that doesn't address the FN 5.7 seems like someone is afraid of exposing their favorite to competition from something specifically designed to address that very issue. Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 14, 2013 12:46 PM (af5xa) You are late to the party see @8 and @60

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 08:56 AM (wR+pz)

199 2 guns, 1 cartridge: 38 Special / 357 Magnum Marlin 1894C and S&W M27 (5 inch)

Posted by: csmats at July 14, 2013 09:00 AM (9yxBr)

200 their chances of being helped by a good Samaritan should they be attacked by anyone darker than Ron Howard.

I must say, that fellow is dark as the Ace of Spades.

Posted by: Edgar Winters at July 14, 2013 09:01 AM (9idAB)

201 "73 Am about to order a Walther PPK .32 or .380 for CC. Moron thoughts?

Posted by: toodles at July 14, 2013 10:53 AM (lsau0)"



The PPK has been around since the 1920s and is still being manufactured so that speaks well of the design.  The .32 ACP cartridge, although denigrated by many self proclaimed experts, has actually performed reasonably well in real world shootings.  On the other hand, the PPK in .380 ACP is exactly the same size and I have not noticed that the .32 recoils any less than the .380 if that is your concern.  The .32 version holds one more cartridge in the magazine than the .380.  In the United States it is generally easier to find .380 ammunition than .32.



The PPK fits well in the hand of many people and a lot of shooters like it because of that.  There is also the coolness factor that it is the pistol carried by James Bond and Adolf Hitler if that matters to you.  I am not sure that coolness ought to be that high on the considerations for a concealed carry handgun.  Within the last few years, gun makers have been able to make full powered 9 mm pistols that are the same size as a PPK and both the Kel-Tec P-3AT and Ruger LCP shoot the same .380 round from a significantly smaller gun which makes it easier to carry and easier to conceal although a bit more challenging to shoot accurately.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 14, 2013 09:02 AM (31Nrp)

202 "25 I just ordered the Remora holster in anticipation of my CC Permit. Anyone here have experience with it? I'm female & it really appealed to me. I don't wear belts and holsters tend to pull my pants down.

Posted by: HungryKitty at July 14, 2013 10:29 AM (+11Gt)"



You might also want to consider the Flashbang holster which was invented by a woman with similar concerns.


http://flashbangholsters.publishpath.com/



There seem to be a number of reviews of this holster on youtube.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 14, 2013 09:07 AM (31Nrp)

203 One has to wonder if the Democrats were deliberately trying to cause a national crisis in the form of rioting in the cities to justify some new grab at civil liberties..."never let a good crisis go to waste".

Posted by: Canadian Citizen at July 14, 2013 10:20 AM (XHpys)


Of course they were. Much of the Obama technique is to attempt to press the right into doing something - anything - in order to justify an increase in martial law. And - by the way - the martial law put into place after the Civil War has never been ended.



Remember in order for thug politics to work Union goons have to push people around at the street level. That doesn't work against an armed populace. The first gun control activity in the US in the early 1900's had Union backing - couldn't have goons without gun control.


Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] . An Observation at July 14, 2013 09:08 AM (ylhEn)

204 @200 Another nice thing about a PPK is that there is a pin in front of the hammer that shows you if there is a round chambered. The safety is also very well placed. It's double action and it does feel damn good in your hand. I wish I had a 380 instead of 32.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:11 AM (wR+pz)

205 2012 listing of homicide totals in selected US cities, none of whom were murdered by Neighborhood Watch volunteers;

Atlanta - 85, Chicago - 506, Detroit - 386, St Louis - 193, Baltimore - 217, Birmingham - 72, Oakland - 131, Cleveland - 97, Memphis - 157, Philadelphia - 331, Washington DC - 92, Houston - 217, Miami - 68, Las Vegas - 84, Los Angeles - 293, Kansas City - 108, Charlotte - 61, Orlando - 18, Milwaukee - 92

Posted by: kbdabear at July 14, 2013 09:13 AM (/9IC1)

206 WSJ mentioned something that no one else is mentioning. FL law shields self defense cases against civil suits. Z can ask for immunity and get it.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:13 AM (wR+pz)

207 I believe that model 1908 in the chart is wrong. It's the model M hammerless that came out in 1903.

Posted by: The mayor of Candor at July 14, 2013 09:14 AM (c4IBC)

208 Two guns, one caliber: Marlin 1894 and S&W M629 in .44 Magnum. The Marlin lever slammed my middle finger in a most unpleasant way. I made the mistake of firing a few lead semi-wadcutter through the Marlin and got a horrendous case of barrel leading that took a long time to get out. Otherwise it was fun.

Posted by: SurferDoc at July 14, 2013 09:14 AM (F+av1)

209 148 I have an M6 -- chambered .410 and .22 Hornet Posted by: Purp at July 14, 2013 11:31 AM (lm0Rv) That figures Purp -- you have tons of the best toys. And fellow morons, the cob loggers can use your help. I'm the one who sent in today's gun of the week, saving Andy from pulling something interesting out of his ass. NTTAWWT. I was kinda shocked Andy used it but that smart fucker even figured out a way to tie a discussion to it. I'm surprised that no morons claim to have seen/been issued the M6 during their military service. That's one reason I sent it in. So be kind and help the cobs out, I'm sure they appreciate it. Plus, you'll get a pleasant surprise of actually seeing your suggestion rendered in electrons on this smart military blog. Don't be shy!

Posted by: Ed Anger at July 14, 2013 09:14 AM (tOkJB)

210 >> I'm too lazy to read all the comments but in case no one else has pointed this out the M6 was .22 Hornet not .22 Long Rifle Oh, crap. They made both, actually, but I forgot about the .22 Hornet.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 09:19 AM (li+aS)

211 Is it wrong to smile to yourself while contemplating perforated union goons?

Posted by: SurferDoc at July 14, 2013 09:21 AM (F+av1)

212 Ruger still lists a .30 carbine Blackhawk single action revolver on their website. http://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkBlued/models.html

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 14, 2013 09:28 AM (LJ2uj)

213 Damn the price on that Ruger Blackhawk sure has gone up.  I remember when you could get the .357 for less than $100.

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 09:33 AM (lZvxr)

214 @212 Welcome to the club. EVERYTHING has gone up. If I wasn't worried about having guns, I might be a seller now. Still buying select guns from friends caught up in "Hope and Change", but sort of feel guilty trying to beat them down when they are broke. Guess I am better that a pawn shop.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:37 AM (wR+pz)

215 That was the big draw for the Ruger.  It was cheaper than the SnW.

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 09:40 AM (lZvxr)

216 Saw a great show on sci, how they make Leatherman tools. Really cool. And there is still a Leatherman that owns the place, Tim. Great sales piece. The knife blades are specially made, blah blah blah.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:42 AM (wR+pz)

217 NY Slime is actually running photos of memorial services for St Tray. These guys won't give it up.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:44 AM (wR+pz)

218 Folks still here?  Got a question.

Someone gave me an adjustable gas block to try on an AR-15.

WTF?

Where the heck would that get installed?

Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 09:48 AM (RL7U1)

219 "So be kind and help the cobs out, I'm sure they appreciate it. Plus, you'll get a pleasant surprise of actually seeing your suggestion rendered in electrons on this smart military blog. Don't be shy!"

---------------

Love to, but I have no idea how to contact Andy or anybody else at AoS.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 09:49 AM (celt+)

220 There is a youtoob vid of a guy shooting a Ruger blackhawk in 30 carbine...   no fun.  Good god, sharp crack and pow. 

Posted by: Yip at July 14, 2013 09:51 AM (/jHWN)

221

Greetin's and salutin's, y'all.

 

Last night's gig was pretty uneventful. The whole bar   stopped for the verdict.   Several  music lovers bought us shots of Jaeger   and as a result, I have   my first    hangover in many years,  so y'all  don't type too loud, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 14, 2013 09:51 AM (0HooB)

222 Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum was my first center fire caliber handgun. I think it was around $90.

Posted by: SurferDoc at July 14, 2013 09:52 AM (F+av1)

223 @220 Nothing like a Jagger hang over. The only cure? More Jagger!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 09:54 AM (wR+pz)

224 2nd photo. Great 1862 picture of a Union ironclad with canons. Link from Instapundit. Scroll through all the pics. Wonderful. http://tinyurl.com/nxlk79w

Posted by: Tuna at July 14, 2013 10:01 AM (M/TDA)

225 Glad to bear from ya BWB.  Sounds like the bar was pretty jubilant.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at July 14, 2013 10:04 AM (ELs9k)

226 217  It goes where the old gas block goes.  Right above the hole on top of the barrel

Posted by: DAve at July 14, 2013 10:06 AM (albkL)

227 223 Also, what kind of rifle does the lady in photo 16 holding and what is she aiming at?

Posted by: Tuna at July 14, 2013 10:08 AM (M/TDA)

228 The inevitable Angela Corey Downfall http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=svjISYrTMyk

Posted by: toby928© at July 14, 2013 10:11 AM (QupBk)

229 Not to be anal or anything, but did anyone else notice the obvious mistake, less obvious mistake, and the glaring omission on the Browning poster?

On the subject of  rifle / pistol combos, I have a 92 Winchester and a Ruger Blackhawk  both chambered to 32-20.  An old, originally blackpowder cartridge, with modern powders and judicious handloading 115 g flatnoses can be driven to around 2000fps in the rifle and 1500 in the revolver.  Nice combo.

Posted by: Alamo at July 14, 2013 10:18 AM (C0alm)

230 217 It goes where the old gas block goes. Right above the hole on top of the barrel

Posted by: DAve at July 14, 2013 02:06 PM (albkL)


OK, not to be a total dork, this means the handguard and front sight have to come off, slip old gas block out, slide this one in?


I've taken many things apart before but never this.  Thanks!



Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 10:19 AM (RL7U1)

231 My father had an old SnW 32-20.  I think my younger brother has it now.

Posted by: Vic at July 14, 2013 10:20 AM (lZvxr)

232 Ditto on the old black powder cartridges.  Besides 22 only rifle/handgun cartridge match I have is 45-70.

Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at July 14, 2013 10:20 AM (kxSZr)

233 Let's see Sunday, Gun thread, Book thread and Gaming thread. What about a Pron thread? Think of the hits!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 10:24 AM (wR+pz)

234 OK, not to be a total dork, this means the handguard and front sight have to come off, slip old gas block out, slide this one in?

-------------------------------

I believe so, and I believe it can be a bitch.

Why do you need an adjustable block?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 10:25 AM (celt+)

235 I've got a Marlin 1894CL in .32-20, slicked up by a CAS smith. I would dearly love for Davidson's or Lipsey's to commission a run of Ruger New Vaqueros in that caliber. No practical reason, I just think it would be neat to have.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 10:28 AM (celt+)

236 I believe so, and I believe it can be a bitch.

Why do you need an adjustable block?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 02:25 PM (celt+)


Taro, I don't need it - need it, but someone wants me to try it and test it out.  Part of what he wants me to test out is the installation process.  I hadn't looked at the AR too closely and (like an idjit) sort of assumed it'd be in a more obvious spot, like on my M1.

Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 10:32 AM (RL7U1)

237 Question:  do you now have a one piece front sight gas block and is this new part an adjustable gas block without a front sight? 

I had a gun with extraction problems and an adjustable gas tube did serve as a band aid until I fixed the real problem.

Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at July 14, 2013 10:35 AM (kxSZr)

238 From what I was told in my aircrew days, the M6 was pulled from survival kits because of epidemic pilfering. It certainly wasn't there from 1967 on.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at July 14, 2013 10:36 AM (K2Y5N)

239 Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 02:28 PM

I had a Marlin 1894 CL before the 92.  Great little rifle; the one I originally developed 32-20 loads in.  Strong action and very accurate.  There have been some folks inquiring with Lipsey's so I wouldn't be surprised if they did commission a run of Vaqueros or maybe flat tops.

Posted by: Alamo at July 14, 2013 10:37 AM (C0alm)

240 217 Folks still here? Got a question. Someone gave me an adjustable gas block to try on an AR-15. WTF? Where the heck would that get installed? Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 01:48 PM (RL7U1) I believe that adjustables on ARs are largely used by folks that run supressors (where legal).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 14, 2013 10:46 AM (MBqvE)

241 >> Love to, but I have no idea how to contact Andy or anybody else at AoS. Instructions are at the bottom of the post. >> Not to be anal or anything, but did anyone else notice the obvious mistake, less obvious mistake, and the glaring omission on the Browning poster? It was a solid effort, but, yeah, there are a few issues.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 10:50 AM (li+aS)

242 239 ITC,

Yup, you also combine a legal silencer with a gas buster charging handle...

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 14, 2013 10:52 AM (LRFds)

243 Question: do you now have a one piece front sight gas block and is this new part an adjustable gas block without a front sight?

I had a gun with extraction problems and an adjustable gas tube did serve as a band aid until I fixed the real problem.

Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at July 14, 2013 02:35 PM (kxSZr) 




This new part definitely has no front sight, it looks like a tube  Old front sight looks nothing like this.  http://scoamf.us/woak is what the upper looks like.



I see no good way to even get the handgard off, that might've been fused together.  Is that possible?

Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 11:03 AM (RL7U1)

244 "234 I've got a Marlin 1894CL in .32-20, slicked up by a CAS smith. I would dearly love for Davidson's or Lipsey's to commission a run of Ruger New Vaqueros in that caliber. No practical reason, I just think it would be neat to have.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 02:28 PM (celt+)"



To continue with the theme of multiple firearms using the same caliber, the Russian Nagant revolver will fire .32-20 cartridges.  You don't get the vital cylinder gap sealing function but they do work and they are accurate.  I don't think that you can find a reconditioned/new in box Nagant for $65 any more but I have seen one for sale recently for $99.  The 25 pound double action pull also works well as a hand exerciser.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 14, 2013 11:06 AM (31Nrp)

245 Like a model 12 on the poster?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 11:11 AM (wR+pz)

246 Zimmerman's biggest mistake was talking to the cops without a lawyer present. The correct response was "Officer that man attacked me, I was in fear for my life, I want to press charges. I require medical attention for my injuries. I will gladly answer all of your questions after I have been treated and my attorney is present." Then just STFU.

Posted by: LTC F at July 14, 2013 11:13 AM (PlsVW)

247 Like a model 12 on the poster?

?

Posted by: Alamo at July 14, 2013 11:18 AM (C0alm)

248 "220
Greetin's and salutin's, y'all.

Last night's gig was pretty uneventful. The whole bar stopped for the verdict. Several music lovers bought us shots of Jaeger and as a result, I have my first hangover in many years, so y'all don't type too loud, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 14, 2013 01:51 PM (0HooB)"



Out of consideration for your hangover I will type in cursive.  I hope this will not inconvenience Rachel Jeantel too much.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 14, 2013 11:20 AM (31Nrp)

249 @246 There isn't one, only a 17.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 14, 2013 11:27 AM (wR+pz)

250 stand-your-ground laws (which had nothing to do with this case) is that true? Was the language in the jury instructions about murder/manslaughter really not related to the Florida Stand Your Ground law?

Posted by: OneTimePoster at July 14, 2013 11:28 AM (QFvZG)

251 this thing on? yoo! hoo!

Posted by: Jake in ID at July 14, 2013 11:28 AM (6LImX)

252 Like a model 12 on the poster? ? Posted by: Alamo at July 14, 2013 03:18 PM (C0alm) ** I think he's mistaking the 1897 with a 12. The 12 had side ejection...not pictured

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 11:30 AM (MhA4j)

253 Zimmerman's biggest mistake was talking to the cops without a lawyer present. The correct response was "Officer that man attacked me, I was in fear for my life, I want to press charges. I require medical attention for my injuries. I will gladly answer all of your questions after I have been treated and my attorney is present." Then just STFU. Posted by: LTC F at July 14, 2013 03:13 PM (PlsVW) Never ever trust the police with your life.

Posted by: panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 11:31 AM (MhA4j)

254 I see no good way to even get the handgard off, that might've been fused together. Is that possible? Posted by: Steck at July 14, 2013 03:03 PM (RL7U1) wait what?

Posted by: Jake in ID at July 14, 2013 11:39 AM (6LImX)

255 GZ was carring a Kel-Tec PF9 in 9mm

Posted by: Jake in ID at July 14, 2013 11:40 AM (6LImX)

256 panzernashorn at July 14, 2013 03:31 PM

That is a model 97 in the picture.  You can barely see the exposed hammer.  The lack of a Model 12 is a surprising omission, but the most glaring is no mention of the 1894 Winchester, Browning's most successful commercial design with some 7 million sold (last I heard).

Posted by: Alamo at July 14, 2013 11:43 AM (C0alm)

257 "The lack of a Model 12 is a surprising omission, but the most glaring is no mention of the 1894 Winchester"

--------------

Browning had nothing to do with the Model 12. Can't believe I didn't notice the 1894 was absent. D'oh!

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at July 14, 2013 11:56 AM (celt+)

258 223 2nd photo. Great 1862 picture of a Union ironclad with canons. Link from Instapundit. Scroll through all the pics. Wonderful. http://tinyurl.com/nxlk79w Posted by: Tuna at July 14, 2013 02:01 PM (M/TDA) Those are some great photos. I don't know what kind of rifle the woman in #16 has, but I'd assume she's just test-aiming it. Maybe they were going to do some shooting once they got off the boat.

Posted by: rickl at July 14, 2013 12:01 PM (sdi6R)

259 "254 GZ was carring a Kel-Tec PF9 in 9mm



Posted by: Jake in ID at July 14, 2013 03:40 PM (6LImX)"



I was kind of surprised that this was not the Gun of the Week.



Does anybody have any experience with one of these?   What do you think of it?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at July 14, 2013 12:35 PM (31Nrp)

260 Another problem with the otherwise excellent Browning poster is JMB's model 1905 Colt was not a revolver!

Posted by: Leftcoast on a iPhone at July 14, 2013 12:38 PM (DiU4I)

261 I was wondering about the Model 94. Thanks for letting me know I wasn't wrong.

Posted by: Ed Anger at July 14, 2013 12:52 PM (tOkJB)

262 >> is that true? Was the language in the jury instructions about murder/manslaughter really not related to the Florida Stand Your Ground law? It was a recitation of the law in layman's terms. But in this case, when the defendant was pinned on his back by the deceased and in fear of his life, the standard is inoperative. The self-defense laws in most states would've covered that situation. Also, keep in mind that Zimmerman's defense team waived a "stand your ground" defense early on.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 03:45 PM (li+aS)

263 Posted by: LTC F at July 14, 2013 03:13 PM (PlsVW) People assume that when cops read a suspect his or her rights and say, 'Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law', they think (logically enough) that it also means that anything the suspect says in can be used for him or her, in their defense. That isn't true. If a suspect, never talk to police without representation. Ever. There was a link on AoS in the sidebar awhile back that led to a videotaped lecture dealing with this exact subject. It was given by a law professor with several years of experience as both prosecutor and defense attorney, along with his guest speaker, a police detective. When it was his turn to speak, the detective casually asked the students if any of them had exceeded the speed limit on their way to class. Several raised their hands. The cop said, 'You know you've just admitted to a crime, right?' Say nothing.

Posted by: troyriser at July 14, 2013 04:12 PM (ptcFO)

264 Favorite Rifle/Pistol combo's that chamber the same cartridge. 1.) Yugo M 70 underfolder (semi auto AK variant) and the chopped AK pistols - M92PV or Draco pistol all in 7.62 x 39 mm. Downside is that the "pistols" are challenging for CC. 2.) PPS 43 semi auto rifle (you can make one from the PPS 43C "pistol" by replacing the welded down folding stock). It will require SBR paperwork from the BATF- and any Tokarev pistol. All of them chamber the peppy - 7.62 x 25 mm

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at July 14, 2013 04:52 PM (Sedwk)

265 Actually, I just found out that jury instruction is a standard jury instruction in Florida in any case in which self-defense is asserted as a defense to a homicide.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 04:53 PM (li+aS)

266 I have a Hi-Point 995TS carbine  that shoots 9mm. Inexpensive, accurate up to a 100 yards, reliable with a life time warranty on the gun itself that carries forward to any number of owners. Berrrett

Posted by: Popsracerx at July 14, 2013 04:56 PM (lzlfw)

267 I have a Colt SAA in .45 LC and would love to pick up a little lever-action for a cowboy nostalgia combo, although this is pretty half-ass since .45 LC wasn't chambered in rifles back then (at the factory, anyway). Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2013 10:41 AM (li+aS) I've got a Henry "Big Boy" in .45LC....never fired it.

Posted by: BignJames at July 14, 2013 05:09 PM (20Mmk)

268  For half my career I carried a Marlin 1894C .357 Magnum carbine to go with my .357 service revolver. Living and working in a rural department the added range made more sense than the issue shotgun. I was lucky enough to have never had to fire at a human but it worked very well putting down deer and cows that had been hit by cars. Along with a few rabidy skunks and coyotes.
 Now that Im long retired that carbine lives with one of the boys as a house gun and I now have Navy Arms (Rossi) clone of the Winchester Model 92 in .45 Colt to go along with my two Italian clones of the Colt single Action Army. Depending on how I load that it can go anywhere between the old black powder ballistics of a 250 grain lead alloy bullet at around 900 fps all the way to surpassing the old black powder 300 grain lead .45-90 pill.

 The limit s not really the cartridge or the rifle but that crescent steel buttplate. It'll flat loosen yer fillings wen you go to the heavier, over tree hundred grain bullets at north of 1500 feet per second.

Posted by: Peter at July 14, 2013 08:07 PM (mIcNy)

269 267 I now have Navy Arms (Rossi) clone of the Winchester Model 92 in .45 Colt to go along with my two Italian clones of the Colt single Action Army. --------------- Exact same here. A brace of Italian SAA's and a Rossi '92 in .45 LC is my favorite combo. Eventually, I'd like to get a Magnum Research BFR in .45-70 to carry with my 1895 Marlin, but that's for another (wealthier) day.

Posted by: pennsyltucky at July 14, 2013 08:45 PM (ZrH1L)

270 John M. Browning is one of the many people who make me proud to be a Mormon.  Harry Reid, though, not so much.

Posted by: emaughan at July 15, 2013 09:04 AM (dkUke)

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