August 25, 2013
— andy ICYMI
Cam Edwards of NRA News was the invited guest on this week's podcast. He left the door open or something and NR's Jim Geraghty slipped in behind him for the podcasting version of a photobomb. There's a good discussion of guns, "gun safety" as gun control and other on-topic material for the gun thread in there, so give it a listen.
Consequences
NRA-ILA has a nice recap of gun manufacturers fleeing gun control states over at the DC.
Additionally, Jim Chelsea Geraghty reports that the Colorado recalls continue apace. Gabby Giffords' illegal-contribution-accepting PAC (DKos link) is supporting the gun-grabbing Dems.
Gun Of The Week
(answer below) Marksmanship Award
Hero of the Day - Florida: Shots fired during robbery in Leighton Estates - http://t.co/718nq2O9oM #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @OcalaStarBanner)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) August 23, 2013
Gun Of The Week - Answer
That's the Remington 3200, with its telltale gap between the top and bottom barrels.
The Atlantic doing what The Atlantic Does
I'm mostly going to link this, since the author at the first link did all the work. First, The Atlantic published a piece written by a convicted felon in which he argues for gun control.
Or did he? Because a comparison of the piece in The Atlantic to the author's profile on an online (prison!) dating site is striking, to say the least.
I guess next we'll find out that Elspeth Reeve, formerly of The New Republic and currently at The Atlantic, is secretly carrying on with the convict.
Coming Attractions
I've received some requests via the tip line for topics that would be better addressed via podcast or YouTube. Both channels are in the works now and should make for a good addition to the thread.
Tips
If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.
The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense
Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.
Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.
Posted by: andy at
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| Comments (143)
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Posted by: Vic at August 25, 2013 06:09 AM (lZvxr)
Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPhone at August 25, 2013 06:10 AM (wKT53)
Posted by: steevy at August 25, 2013 06:11 AM (9XBK2)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at August 25, 2013 06:13 AM (PpviT)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:13 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Andy at August 25, 2013 06:16 AM (li+aS)
Posted by: steevy at August 25, 2013 06:16 AM (9XBK2)
Posted by: Ragamuffin at August 25, 2013 06:17 AM (fzFF6)
For 47 of her (21) 48 years on this earth, she has been deathly afraid of firearms in any form fashion or condition.
Pretty proud of her.
Just felt like saying that out loud.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at August 25, 2013 06:20 AM (SfGRU)
Posted by: RoyalOil at August 25, 2013 06:21 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:21 AM (MnSla)
What is that thing on top of the 3200? I bet it's some kind of assault weapon feature, or I'll eat my tinfoil hat.
Posted by: GnuBreed at August 25, 2013 06:24 AM (cHZB7)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at August 25, 2013 06:24 AM (PpviT)
Posted by: naturalfake at August 25, 2013 06:24 AM (ZR4Xh)
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:24 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: backhoe at August 25, 2013 06:24 AM (ULH4o)
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at August 25, 2013 06:25 AM (ymovd)
Don't shoot at the ceiling, shoot at the guy with the gun.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at August 25, 2013 06:25 AM (E3gqr)
Posted by: Andy at August 25, 2013 06:25 AM (li+aS)
Posted by: EC at August 25, 2013 06:27 AM (doBIb)
Clower was a hoot. But I like Justin Wilson better.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:27 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: EC at August 25, 2013 06:28 AM (doBIb)
http://tinyurl.com/lkh58bm
And I had to find that story on Drudge.
We be famous and sh*t.
Aahhh...life in my little slice of heaven.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at August 25, 2013 06:29 AM (SfGRU)
Just shoot up in here amongst us. One of us gotta get some relief.
Kudos for the Jerry Clower reference, Andy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:29 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: EC at August 25, 2013 06:29 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: naturalfake at August 25, 2013 06:32 AM (ZR4Xh)
Won't hey put you in jail for shooting Clay? I mean sure Clay Aiken is weird, but shooting him is still wrong, ain't it? Besides just how many times can you shoot him before someone notices.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:32 AM (MnSla)
Every day I feel I've woken up in bizzaro Earth.
Want some pre-DOOM! to go along with that feeling? Click my nic.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:32 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: 85-pound, 4-foot grey tabby named "Pierce" at August 25, 2013 06:34 AM (6xhLc)
Posted by: Andy at August 25, 2013 06:35 AM (li+aS)
Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at August 25, 2013 06:36 AM (lpR33)
OK, since everyone is here, I have a technical-type question: how do you know if you have a revolver that can be safely dry-fired?
I'm, um, asking for a friend who lost his in a boating accident.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:36 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: steevy at August 25, 2013 06:36 AM (9XBK2)
Posted by: nothinglefttolose at August 25, 2013 06:36 AM (ma+gB)
Posted by: Yank on a Hill at August 25, 2013 06:38 AM (tFiBA)
Posted by: irongrampa at August 25, 2013 06:39 AM (SAMxH)
Yes I do, but I could not remember his name. Thanks for that. But mostly I remember it as sea food, and I'm not into sea food.
Posted by: Sort your trash, for the children at August 25, 2013 06:41 AM (ymWUa)
I may just have to buy one of those raffle tickets. And Conroe ain't but an hour or so away.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:42 AM (MnSla)
The lady in Ocala was following a modified Mozambique drill.
"One in the ceiling, one through the door. "
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 25, 2013 06:43 AM (pxDth)
Posted by: nothinglefttolose at August 25, 2013 06:43 AM (Nsomq)
Posted by: Vic at August 25, 2013 06:44 AM (lZvxr)
Posted by: herd mentality at August 25, 2013 06:44 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at August 25, 2013 06:44 AM (PpviT)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 06:45 AM (XruKb)
Posted by: traye at August 25, 2013 06:45 AM (OwD4A)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:45 AM (0HooB)
I'm, um, asking for a friend who lost his in a boating accident.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
If he firing pin is not hammer mounted than it is fine. I still cant do it, though. I use snap caps When I dry fire (or would if my revolvers hadn't been lost when my canoe capsized). With anything semi-auto, military training takes over and I magically have confidence in dry firing. Go figure.
I used to have a neat little setup with "cartridges" that "fired" beams of light at a target with a photocell. Nice cheap, quiet practice.
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at August 25, 2013 06:45 AM (ymovd)
Posted by: The Fonz' Elvis at August 25, 2013 06:46 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:46 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: Jim at August 25, 2013 06:48 AM (vvk2F)
If anyone wants me to price out a budget AR this week let me know....
Posted by: Chelsea10077 at August 25, 2013 06:49 AM (A4hKL)
Posted by: naturalfake at August 25, 2013 06:50 AM (ZR4Xh)
Back when St Gabby could think she was smart enough to feign being a pro-gun donkey...
I think she is smarter than her PAC
Posted by: Chelsea10077 at August 25, 2013 06:50 AM (A4hKL)
We refused to take seriously the current Donkey Torchbearer class' reading of the little red book....
reap what you sow
Posted by: Chelsea10077 at August 25, 2013 06:51 AM (A4hKL)
Actually, if you own a surplus ugly-ass CZ-52 (7.62x25) with an original firing pin, I don't recommend doing that. The original military pin has been known to shatter on dry fires.
Posted by: Yank on a Hill at August 25, 2013 06:53 AM (tFiBA)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:53 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at August 25, 2013 06:53 AM (lpR33)
Posted by: Fritz at August 25, 2013 06:54 AM (KIHQS)
Don't know about those, but I got some Monarch 9mm from Academy the other day and it was dirty as all get out. But $13 for a box of 50 and no clinkers, I'll clean the pistol more. Too bad they had a 2 box limit though.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 06:55 AM (MnSla)
The original military pin has been known to shatter on dry fires.
That's shoddy heat-treating and QC. When you don't temper a part, it stays too hard and will shatter.
And yeah, I used to do a lot of heat treating in my toolmaking days.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 06:56 AM (0HooB)
Sounds plausible. Might be done. Mind open. Checking calender. That's a Friday. Gotta check with SWMBO.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 07:00 AM (MnSla)
OK, since everyone is here, I have a technical-typequestion: how do you know if you have a revolver that can be safely dry-fired?"
--------------------
I like the extra peace of mind of using A-Zoom Snap Caps. I've got them for my Ruger Vaqueros. Amazon sells 'em. Buy two sets and a speedloader or two and you can practice reloading drills.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 25, 2013 07:01 AM (celt+)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:01 AM (Rc23U)
If you are really concerned about damage place cartridges in the cylinder that have already been discharged and that will prevent over-travel of the firing pin.
Posted by: Vic at August 25, 2013 07:04 AM (lZvxr)
Posted by: traye at August 25, 2013 07:05 AM (OwD4A)
Posted by: PabloD at August 25, 2013 07:11 AM (MD5Qm)
Posted by: Henry VIII , Ladies Man at August 25, 2013 07:11 AM (VrVBw)
OK. Thanks, all youse guys.
I knew I could count on the Horde for accurate advice. Now, if my friend could just find that gator that ate his pistols in that boating accident...
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at August 25, 2013 07:11 AM (0HooB)
I dry fire nothing unless there is either a spent round or snap cap chambered.
22's NEVER get dry fired.
OTOH, I broke the hammerspring on my original Remington Army cocking it prior to cleaning it, so go figure.
Posted by: irongrampa at August 25, 2013 07:13 AM (SAMxH)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at August 25, 2013 07:14 AM (V3kRK)
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 07:14 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at August 25, 2013 07:16 AM (iReEb)
Go back to Media Matters... DWS needs her anal glands expressed.
Posted by: LC LaWedgie at August 25, 2013 07:17 AM (6xhLc)
It's a lot easier to become a workable shot with an AR than an AK...
I'll feel manly when I hit when I aim at something...
m'lord.
Posted by: Chelsea10077 at August 25, 2013 07:18 AM (A4hKL)
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 07:22 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:22 AM (Yu5xN)
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 07:24 AM (ymovd)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:24 AM (Yu5xN)
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at August 25, 2013 07:26 AM (UeUjL)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:28 AM (Yu5xN)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:31 AM (Yu5xN)
I'd be more concerned about using steel case ammo versus brass, personally. Talking with various guys it seems the steel is tough on extractors. Have not had this problem, when I purchased the M14 it came with a crapload of Tula.
It shoots okay, groups are not as tight but the extractor thing made me decide against using it.
Posted by: irongrampa at August 25, 2013 07:37 AM (SAMxH)
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at August 25, 2013 07:37 AM (UeUjL)
Posted by: awkward davies at August 25, 2013 07:47 AM (WK8VM)
Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at August 25, 2013 07:54 AM (7RYJR)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 07:58 AM (8sFfo)
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at August 25, 2013 07:59 AM (UeUjL)
Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 25, 2013 08:02 AM (YNK3y)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:02 AM (igDix)
Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at August 25, 2013 08:03 AM (7RYJR)
I saw this posted at pagunblog.com and what you were saying about ammo storage brought it to mind.
http://youtu.be/3SlOXowwC4c
Long vid but it is interesting. Keep in mind they used 400,000 rounds in these tests.
That still hurts.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 08:05 AM (MnSla)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:06 AM (dqux0)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:07 AM (dqux0)
Hold a piece of history in your hand, defend the back 40!
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I've heard the recoil on those babies is a bit robust. Though, that's mostly a matter of personal geometry. I did a fair amount of shooting with a Sako L61R in .300 Win Mag and she barely mussed my hair. The '03 Springfield, on the other hand, turned my shoulder to puddin'.
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 08:08 AM (ymovd)
Posted by: DAve at August 25, 2013 08:10 AM (OksBo)
Posted by: Bill R. at August 25, 2013 08:10 AM (QnRSM)
Posted by: DAve at August 25, 2013 08:11 AM (OksBo)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:12 AM (dqux0)
Posted by: Bill R. at August 25, 2013 08:14 AM (QnRSM)
Posted by: Agitator at August 25, 2013 08:14 AM (kH8bP)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:15 AM (dqux0)
Posted by: Bill R. at August 25, 2013 08:15 AM (QnRSM)
Posted by: DAve at August 25, 2013 08:17 AM (OksBo)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at August 25, 2013 08:18 AM (dqux0)
Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 25, 2013 08:18 AM (YNK3y)
Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 25, 2013 08:20 AM (qvify)
Posted by: DAve at August 25, 2013 08:20 AM (OksBo)
Posted by: EC at August 25, 2013 08:22 AM (doBIb)
http://tinyurl.com/lkh58bm
And I had to find that story on Drudge.
We be famous and sh*t.
Aahhh...life in my little slice of heaven.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at August 25, 2013 10:29 AM (SfGRU)
Time to cue up "Stagger Lee" by Lloyd Price, or any of the hundreds of other folks who have covered that chestnut.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 25, 2013 08:23 AM (8Fl6F)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Hypothetically, any justification for self defense would make that possible. If the only other witness is dead, and your story jibes with the evidence, then you likely walk. I'm sure it's happened before (and will again) but it's probably not common.
You never watched Columbo?
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 08:26 AM (ymovd)
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 12:08 PM (ymovd)
I have owned one of these for several decades. It does give your shoulder a pretty good whack. I fired about a box of ammo, and my shoulder was black and blue the next day. And the jungle carbine has a very loud bark, too.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 25, 2013 08:37 AM (8Fl6F)
------------------
As DAve said above, the Carbon 15 has a polymer lower receiver. Polymer may be the future of AR lowers, but the future is not now.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 25, 2013 08:40 AM (celt+)
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 25, 2013 08:41 AM (celt+)
Posted by: DAve at August 25, 2013 08:42 AM (OksBo)
"Do you think we'll win the gun debate in the end?"
No. Because the forces of tyranny never quit. We have to win every single time, while they have to win only once. And sooner or later, they will.
Posted by: Brown Line at August 25, 2013 08:44 AM (a5bF3)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I have a couple of Mosin M38s (shorty) and find it not unpleasant to shoot. But yeah, LOUD and a nice fireball when it starts getting near dark. One has a scout type scope/mount with a LER handgun scope. That is a fun piece to shoot and decent hunting accuracy. That's definitely coming with when it's TEOTWAWKI time.
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 08:47 AM (ymovd)
Especially if:
There have been any high profile violent crimes recently.
The mayor, sheriff or DA have an election coming up.
You manage to comvince them you're a gun-owning conservative in the wrong city or state.
Your city or state has just passed new antigun legislation and is looking to make an example.
Now that we're leaving CA, the ammo sitch seems to be loosening up a skosh. At the last Crossroads show I was able to score 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo (I now have a mix of Winchester FMJ, Pervy Partizan FMJ, and Wolf JHP, plus one scary looking box of Chinese surplus), .40, and .44 Spec in LSWC and modern hollowpoints. Have a big can of .44 Mag range loads and a couple of boxes of HP.
Gonna be switching "Civility," my .44 Mag Uberti, to mostly .44 Special. It's accurate and controllable with full-bore magnums but they rattle the gun pretty good after 300-400 rounds. Best to treat it as a .44 Special with privileges, I think.
I've also scored some 7.63 Mauser for my Tokarev,"Comity", mostly to use the brass for reloading 7.62x25.
I'm liking the Tokarev although I have now learned that "used, very good condition" means in guns pretty much what it means in cars and boats.
Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 25, 2013 08:52 AM (qvify)
Posted by: Bill R. at August 25, 2013 09:01 AM (QnRSM)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I once had a cop (an uncle who was dumber than mayo on pastrami) tell me that "if you shoot someone in your yard, drag him into the house and say he broke in". I was like 12 and could see that was totes retarded. And decades before all the CSI booshwah.
I did have a family friend (former ADA, former defense attorney, at the time State Assemblyman) tell me to use a plain-Jane shooter for home defense. An unfuckedwith pump shotgun is best. He said if it comes down to a coin-toss as to whether to prosecute, the Arnold Schwarzenegger Terminator Fantasy Pistol with laser sights etc...will weigh the scale against you being a beleaguered homeowner and towards you being a lunatic who just can't wait to shoot somebody--anybody.
Don't know if the advice was good, but it sounded reasonable and I've stuck with it.
Posted by: Chelsea Johnson (Blazing Saddles reference) at August 25, 2013 09:06 AM (ymovd)
Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at August 25, 2013 09:58 AM (BWlrj)
And this year I got a true pair with one shot - hit one bird and the fragments brought down the other. Yep, planned it that way. Honest.
Posted by: The Last One at August 25, 2013 10:19 AM (8HiDF)
Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at August 25, 2013 11:54 AM (yL0v8)
Posted by: PabloD at August 25, 2013 12:35 PM (vg94N)
Posted by: Joethefatman� (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 11:14 AM (MnSla)"
That birdshot ammunition may be more versatile than you had thought. Have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 25, 2013 01:06 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: Jared Loughner at August 25, 2013 01:33 PM (q2b5x)
An EMP causes charge to build up on the outside of metal (like a bullet) this charge gets significant. Turns out primers can be ignited with enough charge. Sympathetic detonation occurs and suddenly your case of ammo in the card board box becomes your enemy instead of your friend . . .
I highly recommend having all ammo in sealed steel cans or a metal vault of some type. You know, just in case
Posted by: Hammer at August 25, 2013 02:01 PM (96zHV)
Posted by: toby928© at August 25, 2013 02:18 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 25, 2013 02:24 PM (31Nrp)
This shows rounds in a fire and if fire this intense can't get sympathetic detonation I doubt an emp could either. That being said, I have no idea if what you say is or isn't in someway possible for indiviual cartridges. But it would be interesting to see a study done on it.
OA
I've seen that vid and there ain't no way no how I'm trying to shoot cut shells. It seems too chancy.
Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at August 25, 2013 04:31 PM (MnSla)
I'm not trying to do anything more than give a heads up. EMP testing and lightning testing can be far more exciting then you want it to be. Just saying ;-)
EMP weapons may never be used same as the bombs that create them but then again . . . why take unnecessary risks? Turns out it is your call !!
Posted by: Hammer at August 26, 2013 05:09 AM (96zHV)
Posted by: What Farragut actually said at August 26, 2013 08:55 AM (QupBk)
EMP effects are all theory. Real world testing results are classified. Assuming a more advanced military doctrine then the 1960's you will probably see "Chain Lightning" or "Rolling Thunder" type attacks. Meaning multiple weapons over a short period of time. This is to set up pulses with different frequencies and durations. The end result intended to be the disruption of even hardened military equipment.
Ammunition is dangerous and classified as an explosive :-) If you could detonate an enemy ammo dump from a distance imagine the advantage. I'm guessing I'm not the first person to think that through to conclusion ;-)
Again it is your call . . .
And no I personally don't plan on being that close to EMP when triggered but I'm not sure my planning has anything to do with how close I end up being. They probably will not consult with me about my personal safety before they do what they are going to do.
BTW - if they use a standard bomb the EMP is x . . . if they use a non-standard or especially designed weapon (sic) that is basically a bomb pumped EMP device then you may see voltages go far higher than experimental models have ever even considered. x*x*x*x etc.
On another note if a foreign power were to use such a device they would probably be pretty sure that it would be a knockout punch else why tempt fate. ( I'm assuming a fair level of intelligence here which is not always the case ;-)
Posted by: Hammer at August 26, 2013 10:14 AM (96zHV)
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Every day I feel I've woken up in bizzaro Earth.
Do you think we'll win the gun debate in the end?
Posted by: Invictus at August 25, 2013 06:09 AM (OQpzc)