Ace of Spades HQ

August 04, 2013

Gun Thread (8-4-2013)
— andy

SSK Brings Out The Big Guns

The .950 JDJ, the largest caliber center fire rifle ever made, looks and sounds like one shot would send a grizzly bear flying into the air.

Of course it won't, because physics, but the video of it being fired is entertaining nonetheless.

SSK Industries has a long history of innovative firearms and ammo, with the .375 JDJ offering for the T/C Contender being something I've been interested in for a long time. I really should pull the trigger on that one of these days.

Stopping Power and ~~High~~ Minimum Capacity Mags

Maet linked this story in the ONT a while back.

Sergeant Timothy Gramins fired 43 rounds at an assailant shooting at him and hit him 14 times with 6 shots in supposedly fatal locations. But the shooter just kept on coming.

Give it a read and keep it in mind next time some anti-gunner who's watched too much TV tells you you don't need more than X rounds in your gun.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)

Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - Georgia: Would-be Waffle House bandit shot by customer - http://t.co/ceV4JzK3H0 #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @AJC)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) July 29, 2013

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Heckler & Koch HK21 belt-fed GPMG in 7.62x51 NATO (.308 Win.)

What. In. The. F*ck?

I was hoping this was a late April Fool's gag, but, no, the military actually is looking to "go green" with its ammo.

The ArmyÂ’s Picatinny Arsenal is working on a Â“greenÂ” version of the M80A1 7.62 mm bullet, which troops are supposed to start being issued in 2014, according to an Army press release.
The Army has been looking to Â“greenÂ” small caliber ammo for some time now. In 2010, the Army switched to the greener 5.56 mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round.

It'd be one thing if we were experimenting with different bullet materials to more efficiently kill the enemy. I'm all for that. But replacing lead for environmental reasons is a solution to a non-existent problem (as is well described in the G&A piece linked in the article).

Armslist Suit Dismissed

Good.

Armslist.com isnÂ’t liable for the brutal murder of an Illinois woman shot to death by a man who used the online firearms marketplace to make an illegal gun purchase, a federal judge ruled this week.

The actual seller got jail time, but that wasn't good enough for the Brady Center's campaign of anti-second amendment lawfare and harassment.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 05:56 AM | Comments (106)
Post contains 501 words, total size 5 kb.

1 First and nothing to say except 1911A1!

Posted by: Hrothgar at August 04, 2013 06:00 AM (XdnQT)

2 Al Sharpton wants the name of the Picatinny Arsenal changed as it is blatantly racialist, or something.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 04, 2013 06:03 AM (+98Gb)

3 Nothing like experimenting with our troops lives to go green. Conventional ammunition has decades (and millions of rounds) of handling experience behind it. The green ammo will prove to be temperature sensitive or moisture sensitive, etc. and we will lose lives because of misfires/malfunctions, but at least our dead troops will have been sacrificed for a greener environment.

Posted by: Hrothgar at August 04, 2013 06:05 AM (XdnQT)

4 That green ammo shit has been going on for a long time Andy. It is the same for the damned "green" fuel for navy ships that costs 10 times as much as normal fuel.

But what is bad is even when Barky the enemy is finally out of office the shit will still be around.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:05 AM (lZvxr)

5 .950cal? How about I just go get a 20mm Oerlikon?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:06 AM (0WdQr)

6 2 Arsenal refers to Arsenio

Posted by: Bigby's Rope-a-Dope at August 04, 2013 06:07 AM (RLTt1)

7 Sorry men, the QM said we just ran out of approved green ammo and the Environmental Officer back at the rear HQ radioed in to say that the old ammo can't be used in this environmentally sensitive area, so the order of the day is "Fix bayonets!".

Posted by: Hrothgar at August 04, 2013 06:08 AM (XdnQT)

8 Good morning all, gotta go

Posted by: Bigby's Rope-a-Dope at August 04, 2013 06:08 AM (RLTt1)

9 Morning all. Green ammo to go with the Great Green Fleet. Military used as a vehicle for social change once again. Expect this stuff to be on your dealers shelves soon too when the EPA is done.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at August 04, 2013 06:09 AM (l3vZN)

Green ammo should be used only to shoot envirowhackos. Clean up a lot of smug pollution that way.

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 04, 2013 06:09 AM (vvk2F)

11 Daily reminder: The House GOP is gonna cave on amnesty unless we all go nuts at the town halls this month.

Posted by: Yep at August 04, 2013 06:10 AM (6sqK6)

12 The .950 JDJ, the largest caliber center fire rifle ever made Pussies. Why didn't they go for a full inch?

Posted by: rickl at August 04, 2013 06:10 AM (sdi6R)

13 The former Commie Bloc is now the Arsenal of Freedom. Discuss.

Posted by: toby928© at August 04, 2013 06:11 AM (QupBk)

14 Yeah different trajectories and higher pressure in the chamber... one will make you miss and possibly kill you while the other if it fails under pressure will not be pretty

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:12 AM (0WdQr)

15 >>I was hoping this was a late April Fool's gag, but, no, the military actually is looking to "go green" with its ammo.

And they're looking at ammo that won't cause any physical harm or injuries. It'll just cause hurt feelings...but in a very PC way, of course.

Posted by: Albie Damned at August 04, 2013 06:13 AM (Yhu4q)

16 I hate to see what the ammo cost for that rifle. The last time I saw a price quote .50 cal BMG was going for $5 a round and that was before all the shortages.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:13 AM (lZvxr)

17 And now the bad news. Eugene Volokh: Third Circuit Upholds New JerseyÂ’s Highly Restrictive Scheme for Gun Carry Licenses http://tinyurl.com/kb9dkfg

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:14 AM (zpNwC)

18 Pussies. Why didn't they go for a full inch? Posted by: rickl at August 04, 2013 10:10 AM I guess they are turning 1" bar stock for bullets and a 61/64 gun drill is way cheaper than 1"

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at August 04, 2013 06:14 AM (MhA4j)

19 I scored some .22LR at a Walmart in Harrisburg, PA at a reasonable price. I was in the same store the next day and the sales clerk said it was all gone in an hour. This shortage is keeping a lot of folks away from the range.

Posted by: die trying at August 04, 2013 06:15 AM (w7J/R)

20 Ammo is still the new gold I guess.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:16 AM (0WdQr)

21 Ammo was like 40 bucks a round they said. I wish they'd shown the rounds hitting something instead of just the firing. The .50 Cal range in Baumholder had a "short bus" out there as a target, it would start rocking back and forth if was getting hit enough.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 04, 2013 06:17 AM (ZshNr)

22 Eugene Volokh: Major Shift Coming in Pennsylvania Self-Defense Law? http://tinyurl.com/k8e466e "last year, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court seemed to signal that it might move back to requiring the defendant to prove self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence. In Commonwealth v. Mouzon (Pa. 2012), Chief Justice CastilleÂ’s majority opinion suggested that the 1975 Commonwealth v. Cropper decision, which shifted Pennsylvania to the Â“prosecution must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubtÂ” rule, was mistaken."

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:17 AM (zpNwC)

23 Why do I stop into Cabela's? They've got a Kar98k, 1940 manufacture, not a Russian rework, no importer marks, nice stock and bluing, Waffenamts up the wazoo, $900 bucks. Looks about 90%. I couldn't look it over too much because I'd have taken it to the counter, but the only thing that jumped out was a cupped buttplate instead of flat. I suppose it could have been a service-life replacement, so I'm not sure how big a red flag it was.

They also have a nice SMLE, also $900, but some quick browsing on Gunbroker shows that as a little too pricey.

So, what should I do? Assume it's your money and you don't make a whole helluva lot of it.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 04, 2013 06:17 AM (celt+)

24 Marksmanship Award.... Way to go dude! I thought that it was ironic that the perp was wearing a hoodie too. Heh!

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at August 04, 2013 06:17 AM (lbBsF)

25 Oh my god they've made a gun that could blow up a building!

Posted by: Dianne Feinstein (Packing) at August 04, 2013 06:18 AM (Aif/5)

26 Eugene Volokh: Third Circuit Upholds New JerseyÂ’s Highly Restrictive Scheme for Gun Carry Licenses http://tinyurl.com/kb9dkfg Posted by: BornLib It will be overturned on appeal, if they go on to the next level. But clearly, the forces of Big Government are against personal liberty on a variety of levels. 2nd amendment rights are just one.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at August 04, 2013 06:19 AM (v6hyJ)

27 With that .950 could we then treat Tawana like a rifle grenade?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:19 AM (0WdQr)

28 The .950 JDJ, sorry, I want to be able to eat what I shoot, not pick up pieces unless its some kind of miniaturized anti-tank gun although I really like AP's thoughts on the Oerlikon. The libtards have always used the armed forces as their little social experimentation toys because they would never be able to push that BS off on the general public.

Posted by: Gmac - Pondering the coming implosion at August 04, 2013 06:20 AM (IanLz)

29 Old bullshit laws that need to go away before some asshole prosecutor can use them. Losing Self-Defense Rights If You Refuse to Comply with AttackerÂ’s Demands to Abstain from Conduct? http://tinyurl.com/kvlt9k6 "the Â“duty to comply with negative demands,Â” an analog to the duty to retreat suggested by the Model Penal Code (based on the Restatement (First) of Torts) and implemented in Connecticut, Delaware, Guam, Hawaii, Maine, Nebraska, New Hampshire, and New Jersey. (Alabama and Pennsylvania had such a rule, but recently repealed it.) Under this doctrine, a defendant loses the right to use lethal force in self-defense if he knows that 'he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take.'"

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:21 AM (zpNwC)

30
Apparently these feculent shitweasels don't consider the military's task is to protect and defend in the most effective manner possible.

Time for the bat and some wall to wall counseling.

Posted by: irongrampa at August 04, 2013 06:21 AM (SAMxH)

31 Green Ammo: It's not so much that they are worried about the shooter, etc. OSHA has been on for years about getting Mercury, and now Lead, out of the workplace. Making normal rounds uses lead (obviously), and that's really where the pressure is coming from - the regulations on the manufacturing workplace.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at August 04, 2013 06:21 AM (v6hyJ)

32 The ad on the bottom of this thread (at least for me) is a hotel advertising their delicious free breakfast - with a picture of a huge waffle. Perfect for our Waffle House Hero of the Day

Posted by: Jade Sea at August 04, 2013 06:22 AM (P6s+c)

33
Maybe a few people need to suck start an M79.

Posted by: irongrampa at August 04, 2013 06:22 AM (SAMxH)

34 I'm currently waiting for my transfer to be approved in the Glorious People's Republic of Maryland. A friend gave me a 1911 and an AR15 as a birthday gift. It took me almost an hour to fill out the paperwork. Thankfully, I had a copy of my DD214 so I didn't have to sit through a safety video. The guess right now is that it will take about thirty days. So to sum up:

1. I am a former U.S. Marine with an Honorable Discharge.
2. I have a clearance.
3. I have no criminal record.

But it's still going to take a while to pick up these weapons. Thus the reason I'm pushing for a potential job out in Texas right now.

Posted by: NR Pax at August 04, 2013 06:23 AM (U+O64)

35 Blooper gun for blooper politicians?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:23 AM (0WdQr)

36 Here's the next thing to go in the Army, the depleted Uranium shells for tanks. They pollute the ground one hell of a lot more than lead.

But we don't use as much of them. The other thing I would like to see is a study that says firing lead bullets is a hazard to your health once they get into the ground. I don't know too may people above the age of 3 who eat dirt.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:24 AM (lZvxr)

37 File this under Truth is Stranger Than Fiction.

...has been in the slammer since July 7, when she was arrested after allegedly storming into her estranged husbandÂ’s home. She was dressed like a ninja and allegedly threatened him with a gun and a metal baton in a desperate bid for cash.

http://tinyurl.com/lr72vpn

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 06:25 AM (0WdQr)

38 Picanninny Arsenio. O-kayyyy....

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 04, 2013 06:26 AM (+98Gb)

39 But it's still going to take a while to pick up these weapons. Thus the reason I'm pushing for a potential job out in Texas right now.

Posted by: NR Pax at August 04, 2013 10:23 AM (U+O64)

Someone from MD posted on here a few weeks ago that he had been waiting months for his permit. I would not live in a State that required you to get a permit just to own a gun.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:26 AM (lZvxr)

40 "Thus the reason I'm pushing for a potential job out in Texas right now." Posted by: NR Pax ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And we would be damn happy to have you. Good luck and Semper Fi.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at August 04, 2013 06:27 AM (lbBsF)

41 OSHA is another one of those agencies that needs to be eliminated. If States want them let the States handle it. But OSHA is an unconstitutional org.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:28 AM (lZvxr)

42 Posted by: NR Pax Someone is building an Indoor Range next door to my machine shop. I love Texas

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at August 04, 2013 06:29 AM (MhA4j)

43 @40: One bit of good news though, Vic. There was a lawsuit filed back in June by a Pro-Second Amendment group on behalf of several people who had been waiting for several months for the transfer to go through. They basically demanded that the MD State Police either approve the transfers or document why they won't.

MD replied that there was already a policy in place that allowed weapons to be transferred after seven days if the State Police refused to get back to the dealer. The Plaintiff demanded that the policy be documented and put up in writing, which it was. So if the other moron from MD is reading this, I'd be happy to send you the relevant .pdf form to help you out.

Thankfully, I have a possible job in Texas. It's going to be a big pay cut but I don't care any more. So long as I get out of MD and somewhere more free.

Posted by: NR Pax at August 04, 2013 06:30 AM (U+O64)

44 BTW, I lived in MD for a while. Actually spent the night in jail in Havre De Grace because the wild drunken graduation party I was at got raided.

I would not move back there.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 06:30 AM (lZvxr)

45 I haven't been to the range in so long I'll need to clean the dust off my guns first. Fortunately there is a new indoor range opening here that will have 100 yd rifle lanes as well as the newest noise suppression systems to prevent muzzle blast from the lanes on either side. A bit pricey if you want a lifetime (5k) membership but I figure I'll only visit to knock the dust loose once a month so I'll just bite it and forgo the 'membership' of 4oo/yr.

Posted by: Gmac - Pondering the coming implosion at August 04, 2013 06:31 AM (IanLz)

46 @41: Thank you for the kind words. Hopefully I'll have some good news and soon.

@43: Statements like that just reinforce my decision to move.

Posted by: NR Pax at August 04, 2013 06:31 AM (U+O64)

47 @ 40

   Vic, here's a question you can ask gun control freaks--

   Why is it necessary to obtain a permit to exercise a constitutionally affirmed right?

    You're never going to get a logical answer (been my experience), but it's fun to watch them squirm.

Posted by: irongrampa at August 04, 2013 06:33 AM (SAMxH)

48 How Mike Bloomberg and his anti-gun group are deceiving hundreds of US mayors http://tinyurl.com/nygnqon "IÂ’m the mayor of Walden, NY, just starting my third term. In 2009, while attending a statewide mayoral conference, I was asked to sign a Â“petitionÂ” affirming my support for safer communities. I signed, because who would not be for safer communities? What I found out later is that my name was being used in anti-gun propaganda to further the personal agenda of Mayor Bloomberg."

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:33 AM (zpNwC)

49 Andy, iffin it's not too much trouble, could you add Jews for the Preservation of Firearms ownership to your list?

http://jpfo.org/

Thnx

Posted by: badanov at August 04, 2013 06:34 AM (gFy7w)

50 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:34 AM (ewXQL)

51 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:34 AM (ewXQL)

52 >>Someone is building an Indoor Range next door to my machine shop. I love Texas

I hear in Texas they have shooting ranges in bars instead of pinball machines

Posted by: Albie Damned at August 04, 2013 06:36 AM (Yhu4q)

53 More fake 2A groups exposed: American Rifle and Pistol Association Sporting Rifle Association of America http://tinyurl.com/m7sa42v

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:37 AM (zpNwC)

54 Sergeant Timothy Gramins fired 43 rounds at an assailant shooting at him and hit him 14 times with 6 shots in supposedly fatal locations. But the shooter just kept on coming.

This is why the term "Stop" rather than "Kill" is used in self-defense classes (including but not limited to martial arts and CHL classes). Since not everyone can effectively conceal a 1911, the next best solution is carrying a lot of bullets.

It doesn't matter that the one I used is fatal if you're still coming at me too hopped up on drugs and/or adrenaline trying to kill me. As a corollary, the point of shooting someone 17 times "because I didn't have 18 bullets, sir," is not to "make sure he's dead," but to make sure he's stopped and can't start again.

Yes, if everyone could shoot with Action Hero accuracy, we could limit ourselves to six-shooters, and always aim for the knee (it's really hard to chase someone when one of your kneecaps is in about 20 pieces). However, everyone does *not* have Action Hero accuracy.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:39 AM (ewXQL)

55 My hands are very weak. ItÂ’s a long story but itÂ’s from a number of things. Last year I asked my next door neighbor if he would teach me to shoot. He grew up on a farm in Illinois. HeÂ’s had guns since he was a teenager, if not younger. He let his MA license lapse. He told me tall the trouble he had to go through to get it reinstated, they made him take classes as if he never had one. I decided then it wouldnÂ’t be worth the time and effort, especially since my hands are so weak & hurt all the time. IÂ’m glad you have gun thread up. I can go outside and know IÂ’m not missing anything because I donÂ’t know a thing about guns. Roses are beautiful but they are a full time job. They need a lot of care and that heat wave we had two weeks ago caused a lot of damage. I have never seen so many roses have such odd growth. I thought I cut it all off, and then saw more the next week. Have a nice Sunday! Carol

Posted by: CarolT at August 04, 2013 06:40 AM (z4WKX)

56 1) I thought there wasn't going to be any math. 2) If we are going green ammo, I recommend pork bullets that are not Kosher. Get dead, do not pass go, do not collect 72 virgins.

Posted by: Liberty Lover at August 04, 2013 06:41 AM (OKmp0)

57 NRA ILA: Translating 10 anti-gun propaganda phrases into English http://tinyurl.com/llzcdns

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:41 AM (zpNwC)

58 >> I don't know too may people above the age of 3 who eat dirt.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 10:24 AM (lZvxr)

Wut? Why's everybody looking at me?

Posted by: Joe Biden at August 04, 2013 06:41 AM (Yhu4q)

59 I hear in Texas they have shooting ranges in bars instead of pinball machines

No, that's archery ranges- you're not allowed to have a shooting range in a bar, that's silly.

Of course, you know that carnival game with the ducks and plates and stuff, and you're supposed to shoot 'em? Yeah, we use real 10/22s for that one.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:41 AM (ewXQL)

60 @61: Let me guess: It helps keep the carnival workers honest?

Posted by: NR Pax at August 04, 2013 06:43 AM (U+O64)

61 Allen G. How is your vacation?

Posted by: CarolT at August 04, 2013 06:43 AM (z4WKX)

62 @61: Let me guess: It helps keep the carnival workers honest?

Well, yeah.

I mean, they might get away with one or two targets hit that don't fall ("whoops, I guess the spring is too tight on that one, I'll have to fix it tonight.") but after 8, there's still 2 bullets left to drive the point home.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:45 AM (ewXQL)

63 >>Posted by: CarolT at August 04, 2013 10:40 AM (z4WKX)

You could get a smallish gun with a light trigger pull weight

...and you can shoot the roses for practice

Posted by: Joe Biden at August 04, 2013 06:46 AM (Yhu4q)

64 How is your vacation?

So far, so good. Actually, I'm going to sign off here in a little bit to get Jr. Tenther ready to go fire his first .22.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:46 AM (ewXQL)

65 Remember, in Texas it is legal to carry a (concealed) pistol in your car - just don't drive onto Post Office property with one (federal - not state). Same goes for having a CHL - you are taking a legal risk if you carry on Post Office property. Even locking your pistol in a gun safe in your car is a no go at the Post Office.

Posted by: [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] An Observation at August 04, 2013 06:48 AM (ylhEn)

66 News From The Business Side Of The Firearms Industry http://tinyurl.com/m4rglyd ArmaLite of Geneseo, Illinois was bought out by Strategic Armory Corps (SAC) of Phoenix, Arizona. US Cavalry which declared bankruptcy in March has been purchased by ERMC Corporation of Chattanooga, TN. While the overall sales for ATK were flat for the second quarter of 2013, the sporting group [Savage Arms, etc] saw a 28.4% increase or $79,346,000. In terms of profit, the sporting group led ATK with a 112.2% increase compared to a single digit increase for the aerospace group and a loss for their defense group. This increase from the sporting group allowed them to beat stock analysts' expectations of profits. Ruger had another stellar quarter. Their earnings increased 79% for the second quarter when compared to the same quarter a year earlier. The earnings increase was driven by a 50% increase in sales for the quarter compared to a year earlier.

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:48 AM (zpNwC)

67 Posted by: An Observation at August 04, 2013 10:48 AM (ylhEn)

Which is a PITA for my CHL instructor, who also holds a (an? -stupid grammar rules) FFL and ships handguns across the country. Because you can ONLY use the USPS for such shipments. Which, further, means he has to take guns onto Post Office Property, which is legal as long as it's for official Post Office business (such as shipping one somewhere).

He says he usually avoids the problem by parking a block away, leaving his own weapon in his car, and then walking to the PO.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:51 AM (ewXQL)

68 That German machine gun looks like the thing we got to play with when I was over there. My unit got to "qualify" with the Germans, and frankly I was not impressed with their weaponry.

Their standard issue rifle is 7.62 as well, and has quite a kick, but I preferred the M16.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 04, 2013 06:51 AM (BeSEI)

69 http://tinyurl.com/m2zrerq "California Attorney General Kamala Harris, deemed by Obama to be "the best looking attorney general in the country", has changed the policy of the Department of Justice that previously exempted Federal law enforcement officers from Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. She determined California law had not carved out an exemption for them." Welcome to life as second class citizens Feds!

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 06:51 AM (zpNwC)

70 I would love to see the target that .950 JDJ was being fired at.

Posted by: sinalco at August 04, 2013 06:52 AM (7580N)

71 Why is it necessary to obtain a permit to exercise a constitutionally affirmed right? You're never going to get a logical answer (been my experience), but it's fun to watch them squirm. Posted by: irongrampa at August 04, 2013 10:33 AM (SAMxH) I like "If it is my Constitutional right to vote without presenting an ID or having a background check, why isn't it my Constitutional right to own and buy firearms without presenting an ID or having a background check?"

Posted by: Hrothgar at August 04, 2013 06:53 AM (XdnQT)

72 You know, part of me looks at that .950 and says "that's just stupid."

Then I realize that it could probably put a hole in a Bradley, and I think, "There may come a day when stupid ain't so stupid."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 06:54 AM (ewXQL)

73 However, everyone does *not* have Action Hero accuracy. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) on vacation at August 04, 2013 10:39 AM (ewXQL) Jed Clampett....great "ricochet shooter".....poor hunter.

Posted by: BignJames at August 04, 2013 06:55 AM (ZNQKl)

74 74 -

Good point. Hard to see what practical use it has other than piercing armor. Which we civilians shouldn't have to do, but you never know. One of these days.....

Posted by: BurtTC at August 04, 2013 06:57 AM (BeSEI)

75 I love how them-thar boys grip the .950 JDJ on a bench like it was a .22lr.

Then again, they can wear the bruising like a badge of honor.

Posted by: Fritz at August 04, 2013 07:00 AM (K7xnX)

76 Larry Correia: On Profiling and Stand Your Ground http://tinyurl.com/lohy449

Posted by: BornLib at August 04, 2013 07:03 AM (zpNwC)

77 Book Thread Up

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 07:06 AM (lZvxr)

78 Holy smokes, I don't know what they're shooting that .950 at, but I hope it's got a mountain behind it.

Posted by: t-bird at August 04, 2013 07:17 AM (FcR7P)

79 80 Holy smokes, I don't know what they're shooting that .950 at, but I hope it's got a mountain behind it. Posted by: t-bird at August 04, 2013 11:17 AM (FcR7P) How much eye relief would you need on a scope for that thing.....if you wanted to keep your eye?

Posted by: BignJames at August 04, 2013 07:22 AM (ZNQKl)

80 They also have a nice SMLE, also $900, but some quick browsing on Gunbroker shows that as a little too pricey.

So, what should I do? Assume it's your money and you don't make a whole helluva lot of it.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 04, 2013 10:17 AM (celt+)

Crap! I remember buying a SMLE, all drenched in Cosmoline, from 3Vets in Vancouver, B.C. for the princely sum of $25. Of course that was in the early '70's.

But I did go to Cabela's the other day, and bought me a Tradition Arms .50 caliber Hawken replica flintlock. Have yet to shoot it, but it is a pretty piece of workmanship.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 04, 2013 07:23 AM (fNpC1)

81 How much eye relief would you need on a scope for that thing.....if you wanted to keep your eye? The last guy is about two feet behind the little bitty scope. As a left-hander, though, I'd have the bolt handle buried in my face.

Posted by: t-bird at August 04, 2013 07:32 AM (FcR7P)

82 infringed:

1 to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <infringe a patent> 2 obsolete : defeat, frustrate

The phrase "shall not be infringed" was placed in the second amendment of the Constitution for a specific reason: under the Constitution - no government can legally limit the right to keep and bear arms in any way.

All gun control actions are Constitutionally forbidden.

That is what the founding fathers said, and that is what they meant; no other interpretation of that phrase is even possible.

Of course, The Supremes have ruled that the Draft is Constitutional despite the clear 13th amendment prohibition on "involuntary servitude" because the 14th amendment makes it ok. (Go ahead, find that in the 14th amendment, I dare you.) So I am sure that Roberts would rule that the 16th amendment overrules the 2nd; because its a tax.

Posted by: [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] An Observation at August 04, 2013 07:39 AM (ylhEn)

83 the sporting group led ATK with a 112.2% increase

I prefer the working group, myself, although the toy group are fun to watch and a real crowd pleaser. A Beretta .25 once took Best of Show.

Posted by: comatus at August 04, 2013 07:41 AM (JNUY4)

84 82 They also have a nice SMLE, also $900, but some quick browsing on Gunbroker shows that as a little too pricey. So, what should I do? Assume it's your money and you don't make a whole helluva lot of it. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 04, 2013 10:17 AM (celt+) Are you looking to fill a gap in your collection? Or is this just a 'because I can' purchase? Would love to have a SMLE but not for the price. Need to get some other stuff first.

Posted by: RWC at August 04, 2013 07:53 AM (8FeS+)

More evidence that "An Armed Society is a Polite Society." Heh, heh. This has to drive the Left nuts.

"Virginia Gun Crimes Drop Again As Firearms Sales Soar."

http://bit.ly/12RDAFM

Posted by: RushBabe at August 04, 2013 08:08 AM (idNGj)

86 Was that assailant a baby deer?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at August 04, 2013 08:11 AM (hqMfv)

87 "Are you looking to fill a gap in your collection? Or is this just a 'because I can' purchase?

Would love to have a SMLE but not for the price. Need to get some other stuff first."

------------------------

Actually, I'm passing on the Smellie, because yes, it's a bit pricey. It's the Kar98k I'm dithering on.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 04, 2013 08:13 AM (celt+)

88 remember folks Mom Nature can't handle lead and the lead in ammo is from outer space and an extraterrestial object out of place...

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at August 04, 2013 08:13 AM (LRFds)

89 He told me tall the trouble he had to go through to get it reinstated, they made him take classes as if he never had one. I decided then it wouldnÂ’t be worth the time and effort, especially since my hands are so weak & hurt all the time. Posted by: CarolT at August 04, 2013 10:40 AM (z4WKX) revolver that is how they want it make it PITA for good citizens to have weapons I'm not 100% on board with the NRA, but I do like their new slogan 'Stand and Fight' that works for alot of things now

Posted by: Jake in ID, lets get it over with and let it burn already at August 04, 2013 08:28 AM (DWF95)

90 Last toy purchased was a 309 JDJ barrel, I like it a lot.

Posted by: SpongeBob ReaverSaget at August 04, 2013 08:54 AM (kxSZr)

91 Is this something? http://tinyurl.com/munoyoc Found at Donald Sensing via Instapundit.

Posted by: rickl at August 04, 2013 09:20 AM (sdi6R)

92 93 Is this something?

--------------------

Probably not. That won't stop it from going viral. Infowars will be right on top of it.

This is the food equivalent of "the DHS is buying a hundred billion rounds of ammo."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at August 04, 2013 09:40 AM (celt+)

93 TC needs some special love for their support for experimentation and innovation. Without their early, low cost entry point many new chamberings would never get e range time needed to develop.

Posted by: Jean at August 04, 2013 09:44 AM (7tVNd)

94 Purchased a Remington 740 semi auto rifle in 30.06 yesterday at the gun show in Tampa. Got it for half the price my range was offering on the same gun. Can't wait to try it out on Friday. Quick question though: is paying $20 acceptable for 30.06? Saw it for larger prices, and I don't want to put bad ammo through my rifle just because it's cheap.

Posted by: FGCU_James at August 04, 2013 10:01 AM (hZ9YO)

95 "5 .950cal? How about I just go get a 20mm Oerlikon?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 04, 2013 10:06 AM (0WdQr)"

Because 20 mm is only .80 caliber.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 04, 2013 10:42 AM (31Nrp)

96 "Someone from MD posted on here a few weeks ago that he had been waiting months for his permit. I would not live in a State that required you to get a permit just to own a gun.

Posted by: Vic at August 04, 2013 10:26 AM (lZvxr)"

Do you think that it is a coincidence that California has been a reliably blue state since they passed the Roberti-Roos gun law? Passing laws at the state level that harass law abiding gun owners is one of the ways that Democrats guarantee that they will keep their phony baloney jobs as gun owners, who tend Republican, won't move there and will also move away when they get the chance.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 04, 2013 11:11 AM (31Nrp)

97 !!!!Happy Sunday & 22 Embassies Closing Day--!!!! I'm thinking we lost some heavy stuff in Benghazi--as in heavy weapons. It would explain BHO's reluctance to explain, AND the very un-typical " Uhhh-- Let's close a bunch of Embassies.

Posted by: rld77 at August 04, 2013 11:17 AM (z28Fp)

98 That .950 will come in handy when we start cloning dinosaurs.

Posted by: Tantor at August 04, 2013 02:12 PM (S4AQU)

99 I can't believe y'all went over to the book thread, thank God I never learned how to read... The H and K 21 is just a malformed G3 with pretensions.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at August 04, 2013 02:32 PM (pKG85)

100 "100 That .950 will come in handy when we start cloning dinosaurs.

Posted by: Tantor at August 04, 2013 06:12 PM (S4AQU)"

Maybe I'm kind of puny but a 110 rifle or even the light weight 50 pound rifle is a bit much for me to tote around. When we start cloning dinosaurs, I'll carry one of these. The nice thing is with the right holster, you can carry it concealed. I know some people will say I'm undergunned but if you pay attention to shot placement, it should be adequate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0keZr_2wbc

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 04, 2013 02:57 PM (31Nrp)

101 Going out for a burrito. I'm carrying $20.00, a KelTec P11, and a spare 10 round magazine. Life is good in Texas. Oh, yeah, a Kershaw folder.

Posted by: EROWMER at August 04, 2013 03:03 PM (OONaw)

102 Actually, that youtube video is of a single shot pistol which is probably not that practical as a personal defense weapon. This is actually a better choice. As ever, with the right holster and clothing choice you can inconspicuously carry anything concealed.

http://tinyurl.com/28qt62x

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 04, 2013 03:08 PM (31Nrp)

103 A lot of the comments about "Green Ammo" are really full of crap. As somebody who worked in the testing and engineering lab at the manufacturing plant where all the U.S. military small arms ammo was made I think I have a little more info on Green Ammo and standard ammo than the average commenter. I am not going to say why the Army's new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round is much better than the standard M855 ball round, but I can tell you this, it puts people you shoot with it on the ground either incapacitated or dead at least 10 times more often than the standard M855 ball round. If I were ever to get into a fire fight and I were using an A2 or M4 I would definitely want M855A1. I know from the ballistic gelatin tests that I did on both of these rounds, M855A1 is far superior. There were more than two reasons the Army developed M855A1, one was lead pollution in the ground water on military bases with rifle ranges. The other was an opportunity to produced a far more lethal round for the M16A2 and M4 carbine. The M855A1 not only is far more accurate it is also far more lethal. It was requested by Army combat forces in Afghanistan as soon as troops got experience with it, because it is flat out better. The Army does not make any available to our allies, and none is for sale on the civilian market. The M80A1 development program was well under way when I left that job. The same problems were reasons for an improved 7.62 ball round. I know the direction that the program was headed in when I left, I don't know if it continued in that direction.

Posted by: SargeantS at August 04, 2013 08:22 PM (KzG2w)

104 Posted by: SargeantS at August 05, 2013 12:22 AM (KzG2w)

The M855A1may well be significantly better than the M855 round. How does it compare to the old 55 grain M193? While there is plenty of hype written on the subject, the general impression that I have gotten is that the M855 has proven to be less effective in the real world than the old M193 round, especially when fired from the short barreled M-4 rifle.

I can understand why the Army would want something better than the M855 and given its disappointing performance, it may well be possible that the M855A1 is an improvement. If it also makes the Greens happy, that is all to the good, but is it the most effective round that we can supply to our troops and would a less green round be more effective?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at August 05, 2013 06:22 AM (31Nrp)

105 Another story with a happy ending (Fox News link):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kw2fze3

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at August 05, 2013 01:08 PM (91XRk)

106 The M855 was developed to improve on the performance of the old M193 round. I never fired the M855 in combat, the M855 came about in I believe 1985. Long after I left active duty. I can tell you the U.S. military doesn't much use it, it is however made for use by our allies who use the old M16A1 platform with the 1 in 12 twist rifling. All the 5.56 weapons in use now by U.S. military whether they are M16A2's, M4 carbines, or the HK416 or SCAR-L used by special ops have a 1 in 7 twist. The M855 and M855A1 both have a 62 grain bullet. It is longer, has a higher ballistic coefficient and requires greater stabilization which is why the 1 in 7 twist is needed. The M193 is over stabilized when fired with a 1 in 7 twist and accuracy, which was never all that great, suffers out of a 1 in 7 twist barrel.

Posted by: SargeantS at August 05, 2013 07:36 PM (KzG2w)

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