Ace of Spades HQ

September 15, 2013

Sunday Morning Open Thread
— andy

Well Done, Colorado

Here's Charles C. W. Cooke's rundown of the Colorado recall elections. It's a must-read.

Guns are a notoriously touchy subject in America Â— a supercharged third rail, if you will. But so too is the notion of accountability. The country was founded, after all, by men with guns grumbling about the nature of their political representation. It was in this proud tradition that the disgruntled banded together in Colorado to try to recall two sitting state senators who had not just voted to pass new restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, but had steadfastly refused to listen to the opposition. The new gun laws, locals in both Colorado Springs and Pueblo told me repeatedly, were Â“the straw that broke the camelÂ’s back.Â” Their more fundamental message: Â“Listen to me, goddamnit!Â”

Still not listening: Angela Giron

Meanwhile, In New York City ...

... where it's difficult for anyone but law enforcement to get a gun permit and civil rights have been wantonly violated under "stop & frisk", the NYPD continues to blaze away at unarmed suspects but only manages to hit innocent bystanders. There's a pattern here.

Perhaps Ray Kelly and Mike Bloomberg could focus less on taking my guns from me and more on teaching their employees what to do with their own.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

From the NRA's Armed Citizen page this week:

Pharmacist protects himself and employee from machete-wielding robber, KATV, Little Rock, Ark. 09/05/13

Owner Andy Blansett and employee Melanie Miller were working at the Medicine Shoppe pharmacy in North Little Rock, Ark. when a man came in and demanded painkillers. The man then drew a machete, intimidated Miller and attempted to climb over the pharmacyÂ’s counter. In response, Blansett retrieved a .45-caliber pistol and pointed it at the thief, causing him to flee. Drug thieves beware, in an interview with a local media outlet Blansett noted, Â“All of the independently owned pharmacists I know carry a concealed [weapon] on them or have one in the store.Â”

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's a pair of Holland & Holland doubles. Here's a segment from How It's Made showing one of these beauties being built.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Note: The first 26 comments are carried over from the double-posted morning thread.

[Update/Purp]
CBS practices rare (relatively) unbiased journalism in a (largely) straight reporting piece on the Glock, its history, and how it became "America's gun". There's a couple of gratuitous swipes, but there's also a very unexpected defense related to the Glock's NOT being at the top of gun crime lists. All in all, a fairly balanced piece. Worth a read.

Posted by: andy at 05:55 AM | Comments (109)
Post contains 525 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Good morning, everyone.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 15, 2013 03:35 AM (0IhFx)

2 Good morning, assorted morons! The sun is shining, it's pleasantly cool in the Glorious People's Republic of Maryland and I'm absorbing my second cup of coffee. Life can get better than this, but I don't care right now.

Posted by: NRPax at September 15, 2013 03:35 AM (ODsL5)

3 DAY 313 1,150 to go (1,221 to Inauguration Day 2017) Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Mau-Maus, MFM's, Moochelle, McCain's, MIRV's, mutants, malcontents, malthusians, maniacs, malignant medical mandates, martial law, miscreants, maladjusted masochistic multiculturalists, momzers, mamalukes, mooks, mopes, mariuoli, meeskeits, maricons, marauders, malodorous militants, menstruating mons veneri and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:35 AM (WjLUf)

No cash! you take credit card, yes?

Canadian Express! Don't go south without it!

Posted by: 5Cats at September 15, 2013 03:36 AM (EbYrW)

5 Someone please hit the snooze button. Too early.

Posted by: Everyone at September 15, 2013 03:36 AM (eHIJJ)

6 Is it me or does Putin look like a cross between Phil Collins and 60's/70's character actor Vladek Sheybal (Kronstein/Spectre #6 from "From Russia With Love)?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:37 AM (WjLUf)

7 The kittehs start yowling and growling around 4:30 for breakfast. They get locked out of the room until at least 5:00.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:38 AM (WjLUf)

8 Hope all my fellow members-of-tribe had a good fast and an even better break of the fast. Now, breakfast.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:39 AM (WjLUf)

9 Thread stomping, it's what's for breakfast.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at September 15, 2013 03:39 AM (u82oZ)

Double morning threads, what does it mean?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 03:39 AM (sQ0LB)

11 @7: One of my cats has a purr box that goes to eleven. He's happy to share that fact with me at around 0530 and wonders why he suddenly flying again.

Posted by: NRPax at September 15, 2013 03:40 AM (ODsL5)

12 Heh, good point JJ. Best Bond movie of them all as well IMO.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 03:40 AM (sQ0LB)

13 Two morning threads? Okay, pistols at 20 paces and let's get this thing organiz-ized.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:41 AM (WjLUf)

14 This thread is newer and hipper. On the other hand, the other thread has Vic. Tough call.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 03:42 AM (sQ0LB)

15 Thanks for the reach around, Vladimir.

Posted by: Barack Obama at September 15, 2013 03:43 AM (sr1hv)

16 12 Heh, good point JJ. Best Bond movie of them all as well IMO. Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 07:40 AM (sQ0LB Agreed. Fewest gadgets, no campy schtick, good scenery. Although, I have always liked "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." If Lazenby wasn't such a schmuck in real life, he would have gone on to do at least a few more. And the skiing sequences were amazing. Plus Diana Rigg. FAP!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:43 AM (WjLUf)

17 15 Thanks for the reach around, Vladimir. Posted by: Barack Obama at September 15, 2013 07:43 AM (sr1hv) A reach-around from Vladimir scissorhands-ski.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:44 AM (WjLUf)

18 Can someone please copy Vic's bits and paste here? I'm committed.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 15, 2013 03:45 AM (WjLUf)

19 I came here to get my NFL cheerleader pointy elbows fix! Where's the pointy elbows?!

Posted by: Pakimon at September 15, 2013 03:45 AM (vlq6f)

20 >>>Vic's bits Paging Reggie.

Posted by: Barack Obama at September 15, 2013 03:47 AM (sr1hv)

21 Andy, Ben already posted

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 03:47 AM (zZbNF)

22 whoa whoa whoa--what you want to do with Vic's bits is your business, but I'll have no hand in that, IYKWIM.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 03:47 AM (sQ0LB)

23 Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 07:42 AM (sQ0LB) Yes but this cash only thread is being closely monitored by the IRS!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 15, 2013 03:48 AM (XdnQT)

24 dueling open threads?

i'm going back to bed while someone sorts this shit out... it's not even 5AM yet.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 15, 2013 03:49 AM (q+fqH)

25 kittehs picture
http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ufunk-selection-du-week-end-21-20.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 15, 2013 03:50 AM (0NQnn)

26 pulled a fast one

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 03:58 AM (MnSla)

27 Thanks Andy.

Those are some pretty scatter guns.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 06:00 AM (MnSla)

28 I could have me one of those HnH doubles if I sold my house.

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 06:05 AM (zZbNF)

29 One week, RG10 revolver. Next week, Holland and Holland shotguns for shooting grouse in the moors. Variety. Not mentioned in the video is the rental program for bearers and beaters.

Posted by: Bill at September 15, 2013 06:05 AM (uvyrw)

30 I'll take any win these days. And, if you haven't read the details of this, you should. This is why we need to keep our guns. Former Muslim Brotherhood Member Walid Shoebat Â‘Being Harassed By U.S. Govt For Investigating ObamaÂ’s Family TiesÂ’ http://tinyurl.com/op8monq excerpt: Shoebat said his phone is being tapped so they can listen into his house even when he is not on the phone. He said he has received harassing phone calls over and over and that a pre-taped, un-aired phone interview he had just recorded was played back to him on his phone just after he had finished recording it and hung up. Just unbelievable.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 15, 2013 06:06 AM (IXrOn)

31 Hey, I remember these comments!

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 15, 2013 06:06 AM (sQ0LB)

32 Note: The first 26 comments are carried over from the double-posted morning thread.

I didnt know that was a capability in the mods toolbox!

Posted by: Jean at September 15, 2013 06:07 AM (CMlD4)

33 I wish we actually knew how to do this "voter suppression" thing, if it works that well we should be doing it everywhere.

Posted by: Jean at September 15, 2013 06:09 AM (CMlD4)

just read that in Chicago, you know where Da BEARS!!! play later today, the Illinois supreme court is throwing out all arrests of people who were busted outside their homes with their legal weapons

just a reminder to all my homies though, the weapons can't be CONCEALED yet

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:11 AM (M1wQA)

35 Looks like a rain day. Guess that makes it loading day.

Posted by: RolandTHTG at September 15, 2013 06:11 AM (qyoyx)

36 Can't an innocent man [of no racial description] with a machete get a refund on his way to choir practice without having a gun pointed at him by a greedy honky racist white cracka?

Posted by: Al Sharpton at September 15, 2013 06:13 AM (SM8RA)

37 Â“All of the independently owned pharmacists I know carry a concealed [weapon] on them or have one in the store.Â” On the other hand, if you want to hit a big chain like Wallgreens or CVS, go nuts. Those idiots are "gun-free zones".

Posted by: Socrateae at September 15, 2013 06:14 AM (6uy7v)

38 I think that if I had the money I'd have no problem waiting for one of those. But since I don't, I'll just keep my Marlin bolt action 12ga. It still works just fine.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 06:14 AM (MnSla)

39 >> One week, RG10 revolver. Next week, Holland and Holland shotguns for shooting grouse in the moors. Variety. Anything that'll push a piece of lead out of a tube is fair game.

Posted by: Andy at September 15, 2013 06:15 AM (li+aS)

on cops hitting innocent bystanders, I was talking to the drop dead maria about it and she says it a combination of lack of meaningful practice and fear

when shooting starts most cops just blow off all their rounds as fast as they can

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:16 AM (M1wQA)

41
My wife, son, and I went trap shooting yesterday. Lovely weather, great time. A range officer suggested that I try shooting left-handed: though I am right handed, I am left-eye dominant. At first, it felt clumsy, but as I got into my second box of shells, it felt more and more comfortable: I could see the bird much better, and toward the end I was "in the zone". It looks like I'm a southpaw shooter after all: go figure!

By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop? I live in Chicago - which is being dragged, kicking and screaming, back into America.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 15, 2013 06:16 AM (a5bF3)

42 This is Bears football weather!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 15, 2013 06:16 AM (AYOav)

43 Gun of the week is a Glock AK15.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 15, 2013 06:17 AM (MBqvE)

44 The HnH 12-bore 'Round Action Sidelock' Paradox only sells for $95,000 and that is one of their cheaper models.

I'll keep my old model 870

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 06:18 AM (zZbNF)

45 Per Wikipedia, on this day: 1966 Â– U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson, responding to a sniper attack at the University of Texas at Austin, writes a letter to Congress urging the enactment of gun control legislation. Asshole.

Posted by: rickl at September 15, 2013 06:19 AM (sdi6R)

46 Brown Line - there are others of course, but ya can't hardly go wrong with a Remington 1100. I loved my 1100 LT-20, before it got swallowed up by a sinkhole.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at September 15, 2013 06:20 AM (JCIjD)

43 This is Bears football weather!

any weather where you can light the grill is BEARS weather: my dad

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:20 AM (M1wQA)

hmmm

50 comments and the glock fanbois aren't here yet?

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:22 AM (M1wQA)

49 @11 My cat was patting my nose at 5AM. I finally told him to knock it off. Best wake-up call was courtesy of Vincent (R.I.P.). He'd go downstairs to the ice-cold water bowl, come back to bed, and stick his cold, wet muzzle in my ear.

Posted by: Socrateae at September 15, 2013 06:22 AM (6uy7v)

50 Even more of an asshole when you remember that Whitman was taken down in part by regular citizens using their privately owned weapons.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 15, 2013 06:22 AM (MBqvE)

51 By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop?

Benelli M1 Super 90 for home defense and zombietime

for an upland gun, any of the Benelli or Berrettas are nice - if your willing to sacrifice a mortgage payment. I think Obama has a program where you get to skip payments - skipping one to buy guns would be ironic.

Posted by: Jean at September 15, 2013 06:24 AM (CMlD4)

51 my 20lb cat will walk on top of me and stare at me to wake me up when he's hungry

he never does it to my wife.....then again, he was around before she was

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:25 AM (M1wQA)

53 I wonder how Angela would have done in the next election (because these people NEVER just go away) had she simply said, "The electorate have spoken."

Posted by: mare at September 15, 2013 06:25 AM (A98Xu)

54 Brown Line, I'm left eye dominant as well. I shoot pistols right handed and rifles left handed. Shame, cause all my old Mossberg 22 rifles have cheekpads for right handed shooters.

Posted by: JimK at September 15, 2013 06:26 AM (+R7VH)

53 Benelli M1 Super 90

I would love to get one to add to the armory but for that cost i'd rather get a custom kimber

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 06:26 AM (M1wQA)

56 42 Living in Chicago must be tough as far as buying a firearm (long drive, etc). Now, one of the best places to buy a lefty is at one of the horrible gunshows that do ask for ID and do call in the background check. The reason for this is that the dealers load up the stuff they want to sell. Pay no attention to prices shown. Usually, most dealers are very negotiable. Lefty guns only appeal to a smaller percentage of the market, so, if you see a Remington 1100 right handed, and the guy says the left hand next to it is a valuable collectors item, tell him to think that you are willing to take it off his hands for maybe 10% less than the right hand.

Posted by: Bill at September 15, 2013 06:32 AM (uvyrw)

57 Did anyone see the gun law Missouri's house and Senate passed but then got vetoed by the D (c) governor? It was almost perfect. No LAWs or M1A1 Abrahms, to my knowledge, but everything else was fair game. And if feds tried to arrest someone for a silencer etc., those feds would be arrested. Gov said unconstitutional due to supremacy clause. I hate commie statists.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at September 15, 2013 06:33 AM (/BwGa)

58 Wouldn't it be nice if voting districts were designed to force each representative to listen to and attempt to balance a wide range of interests, or lose their seat? The exact opposite of the ruling party (doesn't matter) carveup into safe seats? I believe it would have to be done algorithmically, with fearsome supermajority guards on the algorithm. But some blend of maximum uncertainty in the outcome of the last election were it to be held in the new districting and {other features to be discussed} could do it. And for lagniappe we could call it "marrygendering". Hoo boy! There's probably something ridiculously stupid about this, help me out and tell me what it is.

Posted by: phunctor [/i][/b][/u][/s] at September 15, 2013 06:36 AM (5TH5k)

59 On a related note look at this story. Assholes are breeding deer with big antlers and of a huge size and the letting them out in enclosed spaces to "shooters" to get them a prize buck.

It is pissing real hunters off.

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 06:38 AM (zZbNF)

60 Our first cat as a married couple would get on top of the very tall headboard of our bed and jump off to land on my chest. the little perv never did that to my husband. Fortunately he was a smallish kitteh.. I still have the 1100 Lt20 my parents gave me decades ago. How would any of the federal gun control laws have stopped Whitman? His rifle wasn't affected. Typical illogical gun grabbing: some bad thing happens, so pass a law that couldn't have prevented the bad thing. It's not about safety, obviously.

Posted by: stace at September 15, 2013 06:39 AM (nETWY)

61 Link

http://tinyurl.com/ofdhwkv

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 06:39 AM (zZbNF)

62 Naw. As a condition for taking office, Congress critters must have a remote controlled cattle prod surgically implanted in their rectum. The button to be held by Zombie Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 15, 2013 06:43 AM (MBqvE)

63 I've never read a news story about armed citizens shooting innocent bystanders. The French jeweler went overboard in defending himself (according to law, at least), but he shot an armed robber.

Posted by: fluffy at September 15, 2013 06:44 AM (z9HTb)

64 Another dominant left eye here. Pistols I can shoot with either hand, rifles or shotguns I shoot off the left shoulder. You get used to reaching around cheekpads and that kind of thing. And you learn to appreciate the ambidextrous nature of the Mossberg safety. Bolt actions are a bitch. Winchester style lever actions are your friend. Watch out for Browning .22 semi-autos--the ones that eject out of the bottom--they kick the spent round out down and to the right. If you shoot lefty and you are wearing long sleeves you can end up with hot brass in your shirt.

Also you get to anchor the right flank....

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at September 15, 2013 06:44 AM (QcHDq)

65 Well Vic, I've always been more of a meat hunter but if the first deer I see is a really nice buck instead of a big doe, he'll be hangin' in a tree that night. So, real hunter I guess. But if a farmer/rancher or just someone can make some good $ (and I imagine they charge the rich folks a pretty penny for the "braggin' rights"), more power to em.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at September 15, 2013 06:48 AM (SFZtG)

66 ...just someone "with a lot of land"...

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at September 15, 2013 06:50 AM (SFZtG)

67 Well, slow for a gun thread. Guess I'll go make some sausage gravy and eggs. At least the comment # where I left off will be easy to remember.

Posted by: nothinglefttolose at September 15, 2013 06:55 AM (SFZtG)

68 >>> I've never read a news story about armed citizens shooting innocent bystanders Poorly phrased. "...armed citizens defending themselves against criminals..."

Posted by: fluffy at September 15, 2013 06:59 AM (z9HTb)

69 >> By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop? I had a Benelli Super Black Eagle II until that tragic boat accident and loved it.

Posted by: Andy at September 15, 2013 07:00 AM (li+aS)

70 ..just send me to hell or new york city .. it would be about the same to me

Posted by: Big Ben at September 15, 2013 07:06 AM (I5Htn)

71 I had a Benelli Super Black Eagle II until that tragic boat accident and loved it.

where were you boating?

****readies dive gear****

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 15, 2013 07:07 AM (M1wQA)

Off Topic:

Another leftist narrative fails:

http://alturl.com/eek5y

Posted by: Frankly at September 15, 2013 07:08 AM (Q7JyQ)

73 How would any of the federal gun control laws have stopped Whitman? ***** That happened down the street from my house on Whitis. We wanted to shoot back but my .243 was out of effective and accurate range. My Dad and some State Troopers went to Memorial Stadium and shot at the Tower with .300 Weatherby Magnums. It was Texas after all. It was another firearm that stopped Whitman. Not a rule or a law. Those are for civilized people.

Posted by: Beto at September 15, 2013 07:10 AM (MhA4j)

74 So I checked out a gun shop I've never been to before. Part of me was hoping "no selection, high prices" just because another gun isn't in the budget for a while.

What do I see in the case? My dream wheelgun - a TALO Wiley Clapp Ruger GP100. Blued, de-horned, Lo-Mount Novak fixed sights, 3" barrel, rosewood grip panels. A beautiful fighting handgun. And I don't currently own a double-action wheelgun (unless you count a couple of Nagant revolvers, and I don't. Those are triple-action.)

I walked away. But dammit, it's calling to me.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at September 15, 2013 07:14 AM (celt+)

75 I had a Benelli Super Black Eagle II until that tragic boat accident and loved it.

Posted by: Andy at September 15, 2013 11:00 AM (li+aS)

I wonder if the metal levels in water have gone up due to the shocking amount of firearms lost to the deep

Posted by: Red Shirt at September 15, 2013 07:14 AM (FIDMq)

76 Semi-auto shotgun
I've got a Mossberg 930, a tactical shotgun with a nice fiber/ ghost ring site combination. Scary looking.

Posted by: Rule #2 at September 15, 2013 07:16 AM (/J6m8)

77 Colorado Gov. not so hard-core on gun control all of a sudden. https://twitter.com/Sultanknish/status/379261294483738625

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 15, 2013 07:17 AM (83xuc)

78 76 GP-100
My first gun ever was a GP-100 in stainless. I love the large frame and the way it shoots, but I keep kicking myself for getting it with a 6" barrel. If I had 4" I'd carry it.

Posted by: Rule #2 at September 15, 2013 07:19 AM (/J6m8)

79 I am blessed to have inherited a Winchester Model 12 It is a Police Issue and spent it's life in the trunk or in the locking rack. It's rough on the outside but the guts are like new. It wasn't even broken in.

Posted by: Beto at September 15, 2013 07:23 AM (MhA4j)

80 Is it me or does Putin look like a cross between Phil Collins and 60's/70's character actor Vladek Sheybal (Kronstein/Spectre #6 from "From Russia With Love)? He looks like Harry Potter's elf Dobby to me.

Posted by: t-bird at September 15, 2013 07:24 AM (FcR7P)

81 Is it me or does Putin look like a cross between Phil Collins and 60's/70's character actor Vladek Sheybal (Kronstein/Spectre #6 from "From Russia With Love)? He looks like Harry Potter's elf Dobby to me. **** He's a Lizardoid shape shifter like Val Jarrett

Posted by: Beto at September 15, 2013 07:26 AM (MhA4j)

82 71 By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop?

The Remington Model 1100 is one of the best on the market at a very competitive price. (None of them are cheap BTW)

Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 07:29 AM (zZbNF)

83 Posted by: Vic at September 15, 2013 11:29 AM (zZbNF)

Seconded!

Great, simple design, and cheaper than the newer 11-87.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 15, 2013 07:35 AM (gqgiP)

84 I looked up those Holland & Holland shotguns. Pretty easy to get a good one for $100,000. They don't accept lottery tickets in lieu of payment, though.

Posted by: t-bird at September 15, 2013 07:37 AM (FcR7P)

85 65 I've never read a news story about armed citizens shooting innocent bystanders. The French jeweler went overboard in defending himself (according to law, at least), but he shot an armed robber.

Posted by: fluffy at September 15, 2013 10:44 AM (z9HTb)

Victims of crime are seldom accosted in a crowded area with lots of witnesses. Burglars don't break in to homes during parties, and liquor store robbers usually wait until the store is almost empty.

Police don't have the luxury of only responding when there are no bystanders around.

Posted by: elliot at September 15, 2013 07:52 AM (8zGOf)

" By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop? "

I have a couple of Browning A5s. Damn fine semi-auto shotgun.

Posted by: Invictus at September 15, 2013 07:53 AM (OQpzc)

87 NYPD only hit two innocent bystanders?

Pikers!

Posted by: LAPD at September 15, 2013 08:21 AM (/9IC1)

88 Someone asked me to post this vid at my site. It's about gun ownership and the gun industry. Take a look and let me know what you think in the comments section. Link is also in my name.

http://is.gd/pW2nnM

Posted by: Jay in Ames at September 15, 2013 08:35 AM (sBwRF)

89 The thing to remember about semi-autos is that all but the 20 gauge are shell exclusive. No going from 23/4 to 3" without altering the gun.

Posted by: pat at September 15, 2013 08:36 AM (KCg4m)

90 Posted by: pat at September 15, 2013 12:36 PM (KCg4m)

Not true.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 15, 2013 08:50 AM (gqgiP)

91 88 "By the way, I lust after a semi-auto shotgun. Any suggestions as to models, or places to shop? "

I have a couple of Browning A5s. Damn fine semi-auto shotgun.

Posted by: Invictus at September 15, 2013 11:53 AM (OQpzc)

I'm just as much a gun nut as the next guy but seriously who do you want a semi-shotty? I say this as the owner of 12 handguns and 5 long guns. I edited Navy SEAL Sniper. I'm a shooter at heart so... I feel ya on some level.

But still... 00 buck cycling at 1/0.4s? Unless you're in combat in a cave, why?

Posted by: tangonine at September 15, 2013 08:53 AM (x3YFz)

92 "No going from 23/4 to 3" without altering the gun."

--------------

Off the top of my head, the Remington Versa-Max and Benelli M4 will. I'm sure there are others.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at September 15, 2013 08:54 AM (celt+)

93 if you're shooting sporting clays, semi-autos are the shit...

either that or O/U...so you can get the 2nd shot off.

that being said, i was on a round with one guy who had an 870 with an adjustable choke on a fairly short barrel: he out shot everyone else in the group. %-)

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 15, 2013 09:10 AM (q+fqH)

94 that being said, i was on a round with one guy who had an 870 with an adjustable choke on a fairly short barrel: he out shot everyone else in the group. %-) ***** I shot a Rem 1100 16ga and have a lot of 75 & 100 patches. My old man shot an 870 12ga with a custom brake choke set and a LOOOONG barrel. He was in the top ten in the world in 1957.

Posted by: Beto at September 15, 2013 09:26 AM (MhA4j)

95
"I'm just as much a gun nut as the next guy but seriously who do you want a semi-shotty? I say this as the owner of 12 handguns and 5 long guns. I edited Navy SEAL Sniper. I'm a shooter at heart so... I feel ya on some level."

For sport shooting, the semi-auto has less recoil. Also, I'd like to move up to skeet and sport shooting, and the semi-auto is *much* less expensive than a good over-under shotgun.

I should add that I am a novice shooter - I took up shooting in my late 50s - so any advice from experienced shooters is much appreciated. And many thanks to the Moron-verse for the helpful responses to my questions.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 15, 2013 09:57 AM (a5bF3)

96 Just as a matter of design, an auto-loader will have less recoil than an OE. However, many of the new OE's have re-designs that really remove a lot of the kick, so they are lessening that gap. They are more expensive though.

One of the more popular semi-auto's is a Remington 11-87 - a newer design of the 1100, and they run around 6-700 bucks, so not really that expensive - certainly less than a Browning Citori XT Trap or Beretta - around 2500-3000

And the 11-87 and 1100 are very popular with Clays shooters, trap and sporting clays, so you won't be alone shooting one.

Even the fancier semi-autos from Beretta like the A5 are in the 1000-2000 range, so even those are less than an OE.

My only gripe with the semi-autos is they are a little harder to clean because of using the ejection gas for cycling the shells, but it's not that bad.

Posted by: The Last One at September 15, 2013 10:10 AM (8HiDF)

97 Uhh, by OE, I meant Over/Under - my U's became E's - damn, getting old is tough

Posted by: The Last One at September 15, 2013 10:14 AM (8HiDF)

98 I'm just as much a gun nut as the next guy but seriously who do you want a semi-shotty? I say this as the owner of 12 handguns and 5 long guns. I edited Navy SEAL Sniper. I'm a shooter at heart so... I feel ya on some level. But still... 00 buck cycling at 1/0.4s? Unless you're in combat in a cave, why? Posted by: tangonine at September 15, 2013 12:53 PM (x3YFz) 3Gun!

Posted by: hack at September 15, 2013 10:22 AM (CwqiX)

99
I should add that I am a novice shooter - I took up shooting in my late 50s - so any advice from experienced shooters is much appreciated. And many thanks to the Moron-verse for the helpful responses to my questions.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 15, 2013 01:57 PM (a5bF3)

Brown Line, if you're still here ... a trip to GAT Guns in Dundee is very much worth the trip. Drive straight out I-90, then take 25 north for a mile or so.

Posted by: Steck at September 15, 2013 10:34 AM (RL7U1)

100 Love those H and H works-of-art. It would truly be a shame to be forced to put steel shot down the pipe of one of these beauties by some eco-lunatic.

Posted by: Fritz at September 15, 2013 10:58 AM (4u+Q5)

101 Several reasons why you are more likely to be shot by The Only Ones (i.e., cops) rather than a civilian CCW holder.

Cops are trained to empty their magazines until the threat is ended. Civilian CCW holders tend to use the Mozambique drill.

Most cops don't spend a lot of time at the range: once a year to qualify. The civilian CCW holder will be at the range weekly or monthly.

Think of a two-by-two matrix. On one axis is Authority (low and high), on the other is Personal Accountability (also low and high). The Only Ones operate in the high authority, low accountability box. The civilian CCW holder in the low authority, high accountability box. Who do you think will be more careful before putting his booger hook on the bang switch?

Oh, and elliot @ 87, one of the cardinal rules of gun safety is to be aware of what is behind the target before shooting. The Only Ones tend to ignore that rule.

Posted by: butch at September 15, 2013 11:01 AM (EV3Uf)

102 Comments like Butch's at #103 make me wish the comments were "Like"-enabled.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at September 15, 2013 11:04 AM (celt+)

103 Thank you, Taro.

Posted by: butch at September 15, 2013 11:09 AM (EV3Uf)

104 And in the formally great state of California, Gov Jerry Brown has a bill on his desk that would designate every simi-auto rifle that can accept a magazine over 10 rounds as an assault rifle including rim fire rifles. Yep a Rugar 10/22 will will be considered an assault rifle.

Posted by: RobD at September 15, 2013 12:01 PM (/VmES)

105 "I'm just as much a gun nut as the next guy but seriously who do you want a semi-shotty? I say this as the owner of 12 handguns and 5 long guns. I edited Navy SEAL Sniper. I'm a shooter at heart so... I feel ya on some level.

But still... 00 buck cycling at 1/0.4s? Unless you're in combat in a cave, why?

Posted by: tangonine at September 15, 2013 12:53 PM (x3YFz)"

Recoil is the main reason. This is particularly important for a small woman in a defense situation. You want a repeating weapon which is why most people don't recommend a break action single shot or muzzle loader for defense but if the recoil of the first shot stuns the person shooting to the point that they cannot fire a second shot in a timely manner, they might as well be holding a one shot blunderbuss.

Milder felt recoil and simpler operation are real advantages for someone who does not have enormous amounts of experience but who is still willing to defend themselves. My recommendation for such a person would not be a 12 gauge pump but a 20 gauge semi auto.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at September 15, 2013 01:12 PM (31Nrp)

106 RobD

I'm not surprised at Cali doing that. What surprised me was NJ listing some air rifles as "assault" rifles. The Gamo Whisper is now an assault rifle in NJ because it has a sound suppressor.

I guess they're more deadly that way.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 03:01 PM (MnSla)

107 For reference to my prior post see:

New Jersey Adds Several AIR RIFLES to Its Banned Gun List

http://tinyurl.com/kbd736s

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 03:20 PM (MnSla)

108

Here's one for your Concealed carry story of the week:

http://tinyurl.com/q27xozb
Guy in Houston takes out a couple of thugs who try to car jack him.
Justice...Texas style

Posted by: Bro. Bill at September 15, 2013 05:55 PM (2ewHE)

109 109 For reference to my prior post see: New Jersey Adds Several AIR RIFLES to Its Banned Gun List http://tinyurl.com/kbd736s Posted by: JoethefatmanÂ™ (@joethefatman1) at September 15, 2013 07:20 PM (MnSla) Yeah, justifies why I didn't consider our "vacation" to NJ a vacation and I couldn't wait to get back to Texas even with its faults. At least I can own a scary weapon and actually carry it around if I so desire, especially if I happen to have a license to do so. The things you do for family.

Posted by: lindafell at September 15, 2013 05:55 PM (PGO8C)

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