1 First Was Ace serious that we had to read the posts?

2 We need to decide who we want to allow to immigrate to this country.  Until we do that faceless bureaucrats and illegals will decide.

Tall fences and wide gates.  We need control of the gates

3 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

4 Don't think we need a fence along the entire border?

Assume your proposed fencing just at "key locations" works perfectly at those locations.  The result?  The flow finds the next weakest point.  I don't think the flow will diminish[i\] that much.  (How may times do you read about a semi-truck/car trunk/etc.full of illegals almost half-dead? Do you think a little bit of desert will stop them?) So your "secondary" routes become the primary routes, whether they are "dangerous" or not.

Time for more fence!

5 Was Ace serious that we had to read the posts? I was assuming he only meant his own posts. The Cobs should be fair game. Also, he was only saying you had to read the post if you were going to say something along the lines of "but you didn't say..."

6 OH CRAP....

How deep is the barrel?....

7 Dems would trade 1000 Boston bombings to get their amnesty passed. Let's be real.

8 OT, but check out the photo at Drudge.

9 Umm...no more muslims...maybe start there? Thats not an indefensible position...at all...

10 Also, he was only saying you had to read the post if you were going to say something along the lines of "but you didn't say..." Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 05, 2013 10:42 AM (/PCJa) Well, in my non reading of the post, I didn't notice drew mention the Xmillion illegals already here....

11

China seems to be a large producer of people who arrive here under visa and then move to Chinatown or some other enclave and just never leave.  Interestingly, going to Chinatown in NYC or some of the neighborhoods out in Brooklyn and you'll find people that have lived in this country for 30 years and still do not speak English.  At all.

12
A fair plan Drew.  I always put border security first, just because the feds always put it last.

13

I just wanted  a cold glass of horchata.

14 Right now most immigrants come here because they are sponsored by a family member, someone who is often a naturalized US citizen.



Does this include "anchor babies"?  That needs to be rectified too.  A pregnant foreigner simply cannot just cross the border, have a kid, and then automatically grant them citizenship.  One parent must be a US citizen.

15 What good are new laws when they ignore the old ones?

16 >>Sen. Marco Rubio, the leading Republican behind the Gang of Eight comprehensive immigration reform bill, says he will not vote for the legislation he helped write and has staked his political future on, unless substantial changes are made before final Senate consideration. >>Speaking with radio host Hugh Hewitt Tuesday, Rubio said the Senate should “strengthen the border security parts of this bill so that they’re stronger, so that they don’t give overwhelming discretion to the Department of Homeland Security.” He said he was working with other senators on amendments to do just that. >>Then Hewitt asked: “If those amendments don’t pass, will you yourself support the bill that emerged from Judiciary, Senator Rubio?” >>Rubio answered, “Well, I think if those amendments don’t pass, then I think we’ve got a bill that isn’t going to become law, and I think we’re wasting our time. So the answer is no.” http://tinyurl.com/kol9bte

17

On the fence.

Ironically forcing people to the most dangerous areas to border jump (I use the term force loosely here out of laziness) is the next big "rights" issue.

I've already seen grumblings about this in various places as I survey the state.

It's remarkable, people think that immigrating to the US is a freaking human right.  I'm stunned, floored, completely beside myself by the stupidity.

(I'm all for "high fences and wide gates" but we do have to admit that letting in people with the wrong skills, or no skills at all could have a horrific effect on the economy, and the nation as a whole.)

18 OT but since it deals with electric vehicles...  I present to you Tinkerbell the Karmann Ghia.  Every Tweet, text, or photo about this car allegedly charges up the batteries that replaced the gasoline engine.  So you better keep clapping your hands  ...  oohh wait Tweet or text ...  to keep this car moving and alive.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/students-create-car-runs-social-204645307-cbs.html

P.S. An electric motor is not the same as an engine TV reporter lady.

19 This is reasonable and rational and focused on the concept that the United States is a sovereign nation that has an inherent right and duty to enforce it's borders. That's an auditing, you racist racist. Serious you guys, I think this is at least a good starting point for discussions about what immigration reform should be. I have a particular distaste for H1-B process because it is modern day indentured servitude. I don't know what I think about burden shifting on employment verification. I do think that the employer should share some responsibility for obtaining verification. I'll have to think further on the balance of penalties on employer v. employee. I do think those employers who knowingly hire multiple illegal aliens should have stiffer penalties.

20 18 check out the photo at Drudge



That's up there with the girl's bike pic.


*sigh*


Our enemies tremble in fear.

21 We really should slow (as close to a stop as we can) immigration from Mexico. That will solve many problems. To Mexicanize the US is to destroy it.

22 You will never move up in the ranks of the GOP Establishment with that ind of attitude, Drew.

23 Sorry, you are only allowed to choose "more immigration" or "wayyyyy more immigration". Enforcement/restriction is not on the menu.

24 I present to you Tinkerbell the Karmann Ghia. Every Tweet, text, or photo about this car allegedly charges up the batteries that replaced the gasoline engine. So you better keep clapping your hands ... oohh wait Tweet or text ... to keep this car moving and alive.


IOW, the car that runs on spam.

25 IOW, the car that runs on spam.

Posted by: EC at June 05, 2013 10:48 AM (GQ8sn)

Exhaust would smell nice

26

Regarding my previous post about overstaying visas, I think the visa process has already tightened some do to this, but I'm not sure if it was done country specific or as a whole.

27 I don't know what I think about burden shifting on employment verification. I do think that the employer should share some responsibility for obtaining verification. I'll have to think further on the balance of penalties on employer v. employee. I do think those employers who knowingly hire multiple illegal aliens should have stiffer penalties.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at June 05, 2013 10:48 AM (VtjlW)

 

If I'm reading Drew correctly, I think by shifting burden he means making the system easier for employers and then only going after them if they aren't acting in good faith.

So if someone comes to me with a drivers license and a SS card, I check them, they seem legit, I run them through the system and they check out, then there's no reason I (as an employer) need to get my ass handed to me because the guy showed up with really good fakes.  Punish the faker.

 

On the other hand, if I just run down the line and say "gimme your SSN" and accept 123456789 and say "well they gave me a number, so it must be legit" then I'm in trouble.

28 That's up there with the girl's bike pic. *sigh* Our enemies tremble in fear. Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2013 10:48 AM (lVPtV) Nah, I give this one a pass. The girls bike was just him being a douche. Here he's playing with his kid. I can't even imagine how horrifically stupid I would look if some random person was around snapping pics of me goofing with my kids. Like Sunday, when I was chasing my kids around the backyard with my shirt pulled up over my head.

29 The Left would gladly give up all of this if we just allow Mexicans to vote in our elections.  They care about the vote, not the people.  They care care about the 40 years of unfettered Liberalism, not the after-effects on Americans.

30 Oh, and no voting rights or benefits for anyone ever caught as an illegal.

Ever.

31 I'd like to point out that the US has millions of leftover land mines from previous wars.

32
You will never move up in the ranks of the GOP Establishment with that kind of attitude, Drew.
Posted by: eman




Looks like someone isn't interested in writing op-eds for the Wall Street Journal.

33 And folks, employers that are currently hiring illegals, know they're hiring illegals. Unless they have a shitton of faked paperwork. We hire and fire people often enough that I'm familiar with the process. They know.

34 Also - get rid of/reform birthright citizenship. A child born in the US should only be considered a citizen if at least one of the parents is a citizen.

35 I'd like to point out that the US has millions of leftover land mines from previous wars.

But...but...the endangered insects!  That's their habitat!

36 Amnesty is a Latin word that means "obeying the law is for suckers"

37 37Also - get rid of/reform birthright citizenship. A child born in the US should only be considered a citizen if at least one of the parents is a citizen.

Posted by: unf-ing-believable at June 05, 2013 10:52 AM (EXsuU)

I agree with this.

 

38 Like Sunday, when I was chasing my kids around the backyard with my shirt pulled up over my head.


The first event of the NoVaMoMee will be "Chasing the Ettes".  All morons must pull their shirts over their heads and chase the ettes around the bar.

39 EC and Red Shirt.  The sheer non awareness of these people.  From the video it seems they think this is 'free' power.  And all I am thinking of is how much energy is consumed by them charging their phones along with running the telecommunications infrastructure to route their insipid traffic.

40 Part of immigrating to Canada is that you have to show a current bank statement from a Canadian bank proving that you have enough cash on hand to support you for a year.

41 The first event of the NoVaMoMee will be "Chasing the Ettes". All morons Ettes must pull their shirts over their heads and the Rons will chase the ettes around the bar. Posted by: EC at June 05, 2013 10:53 AM (GQ8sn) C'mon man. You're better than that.

42 Also - get rid of/reform birthright citizenship. A child born in the US should only be considered a citizen if at least one of the parents is a citizen.

Posted by: unf-ing-believable at June 05, 2013 10:52 AM (EXsuU)

-

One would think that a half-decent lawyer could make the case that there should be no benefit from an illegal act, and therefore a child born in the US to an illegal parent has no US citizenship.

43 What would a system like that look like? Enforcing our current laws.

44 Assume your proposed fencing just at "key locations" works perfectly at those locations Straw-man down! Look, I'm about as much of a fan of "we don't actually need a fence because Drones!" as the next Conservative, but there really are places where a fence is... impractical. Our southern border is not Israel. So, yes, a border fence is essential in those areas where one is practical, but it's just not practical everywhere.

45 I don't see how an employer running a potential employee through e-Verify constitutes a significant burden.  I wouldn't expect the employer to place a suddenly-discovered illegal migrant under house arrest or anything.  I *would* expect the employer not to hire him, though.

46
     Once more.


     Reform is BULLSHIT.


      Lock down the border and STRICTLY enforce EXISTING immigration law.

      Radical solution?   Why of course. 

    

47 "Border Enforcement That Goes Beyond A Fence" My Time Has Come Posted by: Skynet NOW with Hellfire Missles!

48 But, but, people living in the shadows, afraid to call the Police, is a threat to us all. Sure, they might vote Democrat for a few generations, um, I mean, years, but they'll come around to vote GOP. Especially when the GOP stops acting all scary and shit.

49 Will Gabe be along shortly to call us all racists for not supporting amnesty?

Via a load of snappy, witty snark delivered by the Strawman Teamsters?

50

A fence? No. A double fence with sensors, towers, and airborne platforms. And make it the entire length of the border. The smugglers have already figured out how to make sensors trigger all across a sector, making it impossible to determine where the crossings are actually taking place.

 

Further, we can only have so many drones up at once. The uplink to control the drone is fairly narrow. The downlink is massive, and getting bigger. We only have so much frequency spectrum to work with. Right now the Tucson Sector can run two at once and that is it. Not nearly enough to observe the length of the sector's border.

 

The USBP has a very large portion of its personnel deployed along highways far north of the border to catch 'leakers'. Well, there are a lot of leakers because the border itself is nearly undefended now. That needs to change. Patrol the fenceline and leakers will become nonexistent.

 

And to paraphrase Tina Fey, I can see Mexico from my house. And I hardly see the USBP anymore.

51 EC and Red Shirt. The sheer non awareness of these people. From the video it seems they think this is 'free' power. And all I am thinking of is how much energy is consumed by them charging their phones along with running the telecommunications infrastructure to route their insipid traffic.

Might as well put in a perpetual motion "machine" into the engine.

Reminds me of a story a while ago about a Burger King installing a small ramp that cars could push down as they drove up to the window to collect their food.  The ramp was attached to a device that could drive a small flywheel and charge up some lights that were hooked up to a panel in front of the drive-through window that the customer could see.  The point of the test project was to show that BK could get some "free" energy from customers driving through and make the system "green".

Ofcourse, they completely forget the source of that energy driving the lights.

52 43Part of immigrating to Canada is that you have to show a current bank statement from a Canadian bank proving that you have enough cash on hand to support you for a year.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 05, 2013 10:54 AM (q0g+C)

They asked about my bank balance when I went to visit Denmark.  They were not satisfied with my answer, saying that wasn't enough for my visit.  Unfortunately, it took me a while to explain I was staying with my wife's family for my visit so they could let me in.

I wonder for immigration purposes if they actually check your bank balances there too, like Canada.

53 Where a fence on the southern border is impractical is places with mountains to climb.  So fence off the easy flat open spots.  Channel the illegals into the harsh routs.  Put ICE in over watch on those routes.  And scoop them up to be sent back to Mexico.

54 C'mon man. You're better than that.


LOL!!!   I approve your plan! 

55

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 05, 2013 10:56 AM (/PCJa)

 

Can't build a fence every where at once anyway.  If we prioritize and keep shifting priority as we see the changes fences create we might find there are places that are literally impassable (or so close to that, that a fence isn't worth the cost.)

 

No plan is perfect.

When I was in Hawaii, I heard a guy on a pay phone hatching a plan to sneak into Australia.  Now last I checked, that's an island, so it should be pretty damned defensible, but nothing is perfect.

56 One would think that a half-decent lawyer could make the case that there should be no benefit from an illegal act, and therefore a child born in the US to an illegal parent has no US citizenship. Fruit of the poisoned tree. It works for illegal searches.

57

One would think that a half-decent lawyer could make the case that there should be no benefit from an illegal act, and therefore a child born in the US to an illegal parent has no US citizenship.

 

 

This!

58 There can be no meaningful immigration reform without welfare reform.  The European immigrants of the 19th and early 20th century didn't take welfare because it didn't exist.  Thus their hard work and determination to assimilate made America successful.  While modern immigrants usually aren't eligible for welfare, their children and grandchildren almost always are, which creates a permanent underclass and a culture of dependency at odds with a healthy America.

59

We're getting amnesty good and hard whether we like it or not.   The  politicians   have layers of taxpayer-provided security.  They don't give a shit.    

60
"Path to Citizenship" ==> DO_NOT_WANT.JPG

"Legalization Status" ==> i_can_live_with_that.jpg

Seriously, conservatives ought to reject any notion of citizenship and instead promote the idea of an orderly enrollment of the illegal immigrants into a system of work/study visas.

61 I don't know what to say about the H1-B visa part of your post, Drew. Wages are dropping in the STEM fields all the time; making it easier to bring in foreign workers at lower wages is only going to make that worse. It's constantly pointed out on this blog that bringing in a flood of low-skilled workers does nothing but hurt the already unemployed low-skilled workers of this country. Why on earth would applying that "solution" to high tech fields be positive?

62

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at June 05, 2013 10:57 AM (cyKNf)

 

The drug smugglers also have huge tunnels underneath the boarder.  A fence won't exactly help against that.

63 100 buses carrying 50 people each making two trips per day for 300 days can deport 3 million illegal trespassers. Quite doable, except for the sob stories in the media. That's why the politicians wanted the problem to reach this scale. They figured the only solution people could stomach was surrender.

64 Part of immigrating to Canada is that you have to show a current bank statement from a Canadian bank proving that you have enough cash on hand to support you for a year.


That's also part of the immigration process in the US too.


You have to prove, with bank statements, that you are able to support yourself and your dependents (if any) at a level that is above the poverty line, and that you will not take any govt benefits or support.

65 You misspelled 'for Canada to tax the crap out of'. Posted by: Skynet at June 05, 2013 10:56 AM (tWmgi) Wrong. Canada only taxes my Canadian-sourced income. Two-thirds of my family's income is U.S. based. Canada doesn't touch that. The U.S. taxes ALL of your worldwide income, being the only country on the fucking planet that taxes you based on your citizenship, instead of where you hold residency. Now I return you to your misconceptions in progress.

66 My idea of immigration reform is to arrest every damn illegal in the country and put them on cargo ships. Destination: Australian outback. Then landmine the border at least 5 miles deep.

67 tsrblke, well a double fence.  With at least 500ft of no-man's land loaded with deadly endangered wildlife between the fences.

68 Is this one of the those threads where someone hurts Drew?

69 We lost this debate back in the eighties when Reagan made a deal with the Democrats and the Democrats welched on the deal.

Actually, one could make the case that we lost this debate back in Nixon's day when the Democrats learned they could roll the GOP and get away with it, repeatedly.

70 The fact is that I am not convinced that the US government is serious about doing the first damn thing about making our lives better. Everything they have done for the last 25 years or so has made our lives worse. I have tons of instances that I can cite, but you all know that this is true. The laws currently on the books are not being enforced except in the most extraordinary cases where no other alternative is available. Call me a malcontent, or a realist. Even when I vote for the good guys I get back stabbed and always regret it. This political construct is not sustainable in present form. Why? Because it is designed to fail and has fail built in by the very designers who strayed far afield from the document they swore to uphold, the US Constitution.

After it fails is when things get really interesting. I give it another couple of years.

71 How about including this: no more sanctuary cities?
In exchange for this bill, cities have to stop any policies that either ignore current immigration policies, or give illegals benefits not granted to citizens. For example, LA not impounding the cars of illegals arrested for DUI or in-state tuition to illegals (when out of state students pay a higher rate).

72

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 05, 2013 11:03 AM (q0g+C)

 

Heh, I need to get a job that involves telecommuning and move to Canada I guess.

73 Every one of these people who want open borders should remove their front doors    immediately.

74 Oh and I'm one of those in the minority that thinks all legal immigration should be completely halted for at least 40 years. That's two generations. That's what happened before and it's a good idea.

75 I don't know what to say about the H1-B visa part of your post, Drew. Wages are dropping in the STEM fields all the time; making it easier to bring in foreign workers at lower wages is only going to make that worse. It's constantly pointed out on this blog that bringing in a flood of low-skilled workers does nothing but hurt the already unemployed low-skilled workers of this country. Why on earth would applying that "solution" to high tech fields be positive?

Posted by: Hal at June 05, 2013 11:02 AM (MftY/)

This is only anecdotal, but I used to work for a govt. contractor doing IT work at Veteran Affairs and 75% of the people on out team had Indian or Pakistani accents.

76

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 05, 2013 11:04 AM (HwCJV)

 

My point was, any fence by itself will be insufficient to cover many many cases.

 

Use the fence where it makes sense, use something else in other places.

77 Tie immigration to employment rate. Require a system where burqa wearers and bombers and those who think I can't criticize Islam are not allowed to even visit. No more anchor babies. Allow people to be guest workers and then go back home.

78

Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:02 AM (GaqMa) 

 

 

Tunnels never go very far beyond the border. And we got pretty good at detecting tunnels on the DMZ in SK. It isn't rocket surgery.

 

And a deep foundation on the trail fence helps deter that. Like the West Bank fence in Israel. We could take a page from their book.

79
They know.
Posted by: BCochran1981



Not HR, but I swim daily in I9 infested waters.

A few hundred bucks for basic fake documents, a couple of thousand for stolen original documents. Reasonably easy to get thru that gate.

Once in, people typically only get tripped up by an e-verify audit or getting ratted out by someone with a grudge.

There's "knowing" someone is illegal in a practical way and "knowing" in a legal sense,

80 No path to citizenship for illegals, green cards and work permits, absolutely. 

Kill the H1B program and start paying technical workers a decent wage again.  The reason we "need" H1B workers is because many IT salaries are depressed to the point that you can't support a family on the rate.  Then the company screams that they can't find talent.  There's plenty of talent out there, there just isn't any talent out there at Home Depot hourly rates.

How about we start with enforcing the laws already on the books?

81

Meanwhile, in the real world, the government-media complex plans to slowly strangulate any discussion of this topic. 

 

The European playbook  page-by-page.       

82 This is only anecdotal, but I used to work for a govt. contractor doing IT work at Veteran Affairs and 75% of the people on out team had Indian or Pakistani accents.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 05, 2013 11:07 AM (UypUQ)

 

I used to work for a lab, and our lab manager called it "Insourcing."  Hiring foreign post docs for a fraction of what a US one would want (and usually less than a standard research assistant makes.)

It's well known to be a fairly common practice.  In my newest job search I know that there's no such thing as "salary negotiation" I put down a number in the 30's and take what I'm offered, (even if it's less than that) because if I try to negotiate they'll just hire someone else on a visa .

83 I *would* expect the employer not to hire him, though.

I trump your expectations with reality.  To have employees that accept less than minimum wage, in cash without benefits, that don't join unions, and don't squawk about sexual harassment is heavenly.

84

Since your immigration plan doesn't even come close to addressing the main driver of immigration I would toss it out and start over.  Let me help you a little:

 

First off, when you address the issue of skills of the immigrant, don't start talking about doctors and those folks.  If anything over 90% of the illegal immigrants in this country do not have skills that come close to that.

 

Immigration has been and always will be mostly a function of despair, the need to feed oneself or family, the need to get that fresh start.

 

Secondly, understand that the reason we have so many illegal immigrants is because there is sufficient work for immigrants to provide them with jobs.  On the other hand, at the federal govt. level, they have not legally allowed enough immigrants in to fill the supply of jobs that are available.

 

The high and mighties spit out that they want to bring in more educated and high valued immigrants....well, that's nice, I'm sure they would try to come in if the demand for their services was high enough.  However, right now, the largest demand that needs filled is for low cost labor.

The states and federal government are trying to do everything they can to make low cost work more expensive, demanding higher wages and benefits for those workers, while regulating those jobs to death.  As a result, the demand for workers who cost less than the artificially high price the government is setting for that work, is exceptional.

 

So, if you want to reform the immigration system, stop acting like a Harvard educated liberal by assuming our immigration system only needs to address those foreigners who have earned Masters degrees and doctorates, and start acting like you are in the real world.

85 OT: $1 Trillion farm bill to be passed. BOHICA my friends.

86 Susan Rice as National Security Adviser! Samantha Power to the UN! Immigration bill? Hell, we could use a little machismo...

87

I would think that control of the borders would be preeminent and that determining who can enter the US based on skills rather than relationship would be second.

 

Also, ban people from countries that seek to immigrate because of refugee status. Let them live in a country close to theirs so they can go back home.

 

Anyone from the ME needs to go through a rigorus background check to ensure no ties to religious extremism or terrorist organizations...

 

I denounce myself for exhibiting signs of rationality.

88 Heh, I need to get a job that involves telecommuning and move to Canada I guess. Damn hippies.

89 >36 And folks, employers that are currently hiring illegals, know they're hiring illegals. Unless they have a shitton of faked paperwork.

We hire and fire people often enough that I'm familiar with the process. They know.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 10:52 AM (da5Wo)<<

When I first became an employer, one of the biggest surprises I had was when I was told it was illegal for me to verify a person's SSN prior to hiring them.  So, it is illegal for me to hire an illegal alien, yet if I suspect a potential hire has phony papers, I can be prosecuted by the Dept of Labor for checking before hiring?  Wow.

90 Hiring foreign post docs for a fraction of what a US one would want (and usually less than a standard research assistant makes.)


My old boss did his post-doc at Duke.  They paid him just a hair over the dollar amount for govt benefits so he couldn't qualify.

This is the same school chock full of social justice agitators.

91 Posted by: Hal at June 05, 2013 11:02 AM (MftY/) 3 reasons- 1- High skilled workers are more likely to create actual products and wealth. There's a legitimate economic boost from that. 2- A lot of that high skilled work is mobile. You con't have to do that work in this country to hire those kinds of workers. In a lot of fields they can work remotely from anywhere in the world. 3- Those kinds of workers are in high demand around the world. No one is competing for low skilled workers but they sure as hell are for STEM types. They are going to wind up somewhere, it's in our interests that they be here. Do we need to import more lawyers or CPAs? No. Do we need more engineers, creative product designers and doctors? Yes, yes we do. I don't deny there are going to be some costs to bringing in some classes of high skilled types but because much of it is creative in nature, the potential rewards are higher and worth it.

92 Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:09 AM (GaqMa)



I'd much appreciate it if you could hit 'return' a couple more times between the post you're responding to and your reply.  My eyes cross!

93 Good post, Doug
"If anything over 90% of the illegal immigrants in this country do not have skills that come close to that."

Where I live most of the illegals are illiterate. In their OWN language, forget about English.

94 EOJ - where in Canuck Land do you live?

95

Drew, you're bass-ackwards.  E-Verify with extremely draconian fines to the employer hiring an illegal alien while failing to use the system is the first thing we need.  The illegal alien has little connection to this country, you take away the economic benefit of being here and they won't want to be here.

Do that and we probably don't need to build a fence, at least until Mexico spirals out of control as it is forced to confront all of the disfunction it has been exporting to the US for the past 30 years.

96 I like the idea of for anyone who comes in, a lib has to leave.

97

Posted by: EC at June 05, 2013 11:12 AM (GQ8sn)

 

Lots of this is on NIH grants too.  And then they take what they've learned (and any status gained) and go back to their country (in my experience at least.)

 

 

Some stay, but for the most part we're exporting the skills we've paid to teach back to other countries.

98

Doug, with so many OUT of work there are certainly enough Americans to fill the unskilled labor force.

 

Teens and low skill Americans are prevented from working by illegals taking those jobs.

 

Fuckwit...

99 Many of us support "immigration reform", we are not, as implied, xenophobes or racists. So your headline is misleading.

What most of us don't want is "comprehensive immigration reform", which is a basket of stupidity wrapped up in a 1,000 page pile of dung that nobody understands or has read.

Washington and especially the Democrats, gleefully want the current deal because of the aforementioned. They know it's stuffed with free-stuff, a citizenship giveaway and less security for the border. They realize DHS and Obama can continue their open borders policy unabated. What's the calculus? Well, the people who currently benefit, who vote Democrat, will be rewarded. And their will be more of them.

Republicans, stupidly, believe if they provide these benefits, people, mostly Hispanics, will love them. Like the "I miss my mommy love" they crave so much. Then by the magical unicorn power, those beneficiaries will suddenly vote for them. By the way, that chortling you hear are Democrats laughing at the very suggestion people will vote for Republicans because of this legislation. They are happy that stooges like Rubio and Priebus have bought their ruse and are running with it. Repeating the stupidity without even interjecting a cogent analysis. In fact, I am laughing with them. Or crying- I can't tell.

So do me a favor; get off the high-horse, I am the benighted, reasonable sage over you lowly serfs routine. It's old and Chris Christie plays that type of dishonesty better than anyone. You can't compete.

100 95,
Isn't that what E-Verify is supposed to do?

101

Posted by: Tami at June 05, 2013 11:13 AM (X6akg)

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I usually put in 5, is that seriously not enough?

102 Mark Levin or Rush had an idea. Let them in, but no voting for 20 years.

103

EOJ

Canadian citizens also have to pay taxes on earnings outside Canada,

"Residents of Canada have to pay tax on their worldwide income to Canada no matter where they earn it," says Georgina Tollstam, an accountant and Partner with KPMG.

104

When I first became an employer, one of the biggest surprises I had was when I was told it was illegal for me to verify a person's SSN prior to hiring them. So, it is illegal for me to hire an illegal alien, yet if I suspect a potential hire has phony papers, I can be prosecuted by the Dept of Labor for checking before hiring? Wow.

 

I'm fairly certain that if an individual was  to exhibit that type of behavior, there'd be a clinical diagnosis  followed perhaps by medication   for it.  But then again, I see mass psychosis nearly everywhere I look on this planet.

105 I would also add to this discussion the need for deporting people who commit various crimes besides overstaying visas (whether they came here illegally or not).  These could be street crimes, white collar crimes, illegal voting, etc.  Maybe add a provision that no person may vote in any public election in the U.S. at any level unless they are a citizen.

106

I know this is OT, but I swear if I start talking about amnesty I'm going to lose all my ability to    communicate rationally.  THAT is how incensed it makes me.

 

So, here - have some other stories    that incense me, too.

 

11-Yr-Old    Maryland Boy   Suspended From School For Merely TALKING About Guns

WMAL: http://tiny.cc/obo7xw

 

No heroes allowed: Calgary student, 13, reprimanded for defending his classmate against a knife-wielding bully

National Post: http://tiny.cc/8fo7xw

 

And my personal favorite:

 

Stephanie Cutter,   Obama's    Deputy    Campaign Manager,    Attended WH Meetings With IRS Chief    

Investor's Business Daily: http://tiny.cc/kno7xw

 

The president's deputy campaign manager attended the "nonpolitical" ObamaCare implementation meetings with the former IRS commissioner at the White House. She wasn't there to discuss the Easter Egg Roll.

 

A clue as to whether the targeting by the IRS of Tea Party and other conservative groups was discussed at the 157 meetings that former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman had at the White House may be found in remarks by Stephanie Cutter, deputy manager for President Obama's 2012 reelection campaign, in a recent appearance on Jake Tapper's show "The Lead" on CNN.

 

As reported by Gateway Pundit, Cutter attempted to dismiss charges they were political meetings but admitted she had attended meetings with Shulman at the White House. "I was in them with him," Cutter said. "So there was nothing nefarious going on."

 

Well, if they were not political meetings, why was she there at all? Was she there to offer her health care or tax code expertise?...

107 Sorry, I usually put in 5, is that seriously not enough? Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:15 AM (GaqMa) Typically, your posts have your comment slammed right up against what you copied and pasted.

108 Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:00 AM (GaqMa) I have a friend in Australia and she posts often about the issues they are having with immigration, legal and illegal. It's quite the hot button topic over there and worth paying attention to while we deal with it ourselves.

109 I'm listening to a guy on the radio who says he saw people selling animals on the street illegally. The animals were in terrible shape. He flagged down cops, they did nothing, and when the guy, his wife,and kids walked away, they were surrounded and beat up, including the kids, by the street vendors. It turns out that these illegal animal venders have been arrested numeruos times before and deported 3x. It's bullshit.

110 >>106 95,
Isn't that what E-Verify is supposed to do?

Posted by: Dax at June 05, 2013 11:15 AM (Pson9)<<

My point is that it is illegal for me to check until after I hire them.  I remember when I got the memo form the Labor Dept clarifying to all employers that they would prosecute employers for checking prior to hiring.

111 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 05, 2013 11:16 AM (4df7R)


Ooooh!!!  So, so close!!!

112 Sorry, I usually put in 5, is that seriously not enough?

Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:15 AM (GaqMa)

You put in 5 returns and it butts your response right up at the end of the previous post zero?!

113

We need to also come to grips with illegal immigrants use of government services.

Currently, it is easier for a school district to throw out a legal US citizen who doen't resident in the school district than it is to throw out an illegal immigrant who shouldn't be in the US at all.

114 Some stay, but for the most part we're exporting the skills we've paid to teach back to other countries.


Well, that is sort of the point.  Our schools are the most kick-ass, so people come here to learn from the best and then take those skills and bring it back to their home countries to better themselves.  I'm not against sharing knowledge and information like that.

115 O/T  John McCain says he can't recommend women join the military until they get a handle on the sexual misconduct crisis.  I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I would like to see the rates in comparison to the general public.  I would also like to know what other jobs McCain thinks women should shy away from because they may be sexually assaulted or harassed.  http://tinyurl.com/mpvqp4r

116 My point is that it is illegal for me to check until after I hire them. I remember when I got the memo form the Labor Dept clarifying to all employers that they would prosecute employers for checking prior to hiring.

Good lord, it's Bizarro world. 

117 I'm not a total bastard. I don't want to hurt people or break up families. I realize some people have been here for a long time and are acting like citizens in all ways except paying taxes and seeding long-term benefits. But the immigration plans being discussed are lies. Close the fucking border for real and we can talk. Deport the criminals, the folks overstaying their visas and work permits, and end the anchor baby nonsense. End the payment of bennies to illegal;s using my tax dollars. Kick out the gang members, the drunken beaners with 15 DUIs and the esses breaking into our homes. In short, secure this country and demonstrate there will be no more waves of this bullshit, and I will agree that the rest of the law abiding illegals can stay. There, I've just met them half-way, far more in fact, maybe 75% of the way. And what will I get in return to address my concerns? Not a goddaman thing, Not now, not ever. Again, they will NOT close the border and put a stop to the influx of aliens. They want them here, and they are transparently lying to us. So put me down as a "no" on the so-called immigration reform.

118 So, if you want to reform the immigration system, stop acting like a Harvard educated liberal by assuming our immigration system only needs to address those foreigners who have earned Masters degrees and doctorates, and start acting like you are in the real world. Posted by: doug at June 05, 2013 11:10 AM (uJ8q7) Do you agree that a sovereign nation has a right to set the parameters for immigration into its territory? Do you agree that a sovereign nation has a solemn duty to place the welfare of its citizens before those who are seeking to immigrate here? Do you agree that it is incumbent upon the immigrant to show why immigration should be permitted rather than on the sovereign nation to show why the immigrant should be denied immigration into that sovereign nation?

119 Look, we've got a guy sitting in the Oval Office who could not pass even the most rudimentary security clearance for any lower governmental position, had his records sealed, has a Connecticut Social Security number despite being ostensibly born in Hawaii, even had a name change that no one can track, so take all of that talk about verify this and that and stuff it where the sun don't shine, know what I mean?  It is all so much noise.

120 MWR, did you see the story about the little deaf boy who was told by his school to change his name because the sign for it looked like a gun, and it violated the schools weapons policy? 

121 You put in 5 returns and it butts your response right up at the end of the previous post zero?!

Posted by: Tami at June 05, 2013 11:19 AM (X6akg)

 

 

 

 

Apparently, sometimes, I'll try to figure it out.

Maybe I've only been putting in 3. I've notice that sometimes it drops every one in my post.

122 My point is that it is illegal for me to check until after I hire them. I remember when I got the memo form the Labor Dept clarifying to all employers that they would prosecute employers for checking prior to hiring.

Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:18 AM (KjlbF)

Can't you get around that by requiring the Selective Service number for all new applicants?

123 O/T John McCain says he can't recommend women join the military until they get a handle on the sexual misconduct crisis. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I would like to see the rates in comparison to the general public. I would also like to know what other jobs McCain thinks women should shy away from because they may be sexually assaulted or harassed. http://tinyurl.com/mpvqp4r

Posted by: no good deed at June 05, 2013 11:20 AM (mjR67)

Back when I was in ROTC, we had one female cadet that all the males (and some other females) hated.  She barely possessed any leadership or personable skills needed to become an officer.  After she was commissioned, I heard stories of other male officers turning around and walking away at the sight of her.  The word was that she was scheming to accuse one of sexual harassment and worm her way up.

124

Mark Levin or Rush had an idea. Let them in, but no voting for 20 years.

 

And no ballots in any other language other than English. In fact, there should be no official communication with the public in any other language other than English.  By  using other languages,   the  gubmint is perpetuating the problem of assimilation.

 

But if you suggest that, you're some sort of racist/xenophobe/h8ter.

125 Can't you get around that by requiring the Selective Service number for all new applicants?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 05, 2013 11:23 AM (UypUQ)

 

 

What if they're female?

126

A well thought out piece and well written Drew.

 

Now only if our "elected leaders" would think things through. But they won't. What is going on now is nothing more than bullshit to figure out what to do with the illegals that are here now. There won't be tough enforcement. The current plan is a pathway to build a society that the majority lives on the dole and will be a the government teat forever and ever, amen.

 

If we are serious about illegals we should amend the constitution regarding anchor babies as well. Yeah, that will happen as soon as I and JEF go golfing.

127

Case in point.

There were 5 there, and one after the number "3" as well as at the end of the sentence.

 

:sigh:

128 Well, that is sort of the point. Our schools are the most kick-ass, so people come here to learn from the best and then take those skills and bring it back to their home countries to better themselves. I'm not against sharing knowledge and information like that. We have the internet & robotics. They can stay home & we can share. We don't need to teach them Water Purification & Mechanical Engineering & Chemistry & let them walk around resevoirs at night.

129
Isn't that what E-Verify is supposed to do?
Posted by: Dax



E-verify is offered by the Feds, but whether you can use it depends on your state and local laws.

I think part of the amnesty bill last time I checked was a national mandatory e-verify rule for large companies.

130 MWR, did you see the story about the little deaf boy who was told by his school to change his name because the sign for it looked like a gun, and it violated the schools weapons policy?

Posted by: no good deed at June 05, 2013 11:22 AM (mjR67) ]

 

 

No.

 

brb,    having ragestroke.

131 You would be amazed by the number of refugees we allow in this country.  In some areas of San Diego it's turning into Little Baghdad, Little Somalia, etc. These people are NOT acclimating to our country.  I drive through neighborhoods I don't even recognize as America anymore.   I know how large the numbers are because I work in a program that handles refugees.

This is not what our asylum process should be about.  The floodgates have been wide open for a while now.  Between the illegals flowing from Mexico and Central America plus the refugees from the Middle East and Africa we are sitting on a cultural time bomb.

132 Oh by the way, I DONT GOLF.

133 What if they're female?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 05, 2013 11:23 AM (4df7R)

True, ff course, but you've solved half the problem.

134 Deport them all.

135

How about nobody.

Get away from my rice bowl and fix your own damn country.

136 My point is that it is illegal for me to check until after I hire them. I remember when I got the memo form the Labor Dept clarifying to all employers that they would prosecute employers for checking prior to hiring. Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:18 AM (KjlbF) If I had that much of a concern, hell if I had pretty much any concern, that they weren't legal...I wouldn't hire them.

137 We have the internet & robotics. They can stay home & we can share. We don't need to teach them Water Purification & Mechanical Engineering & Chemistry & let them walk around resevoirs at night.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 05, 2013 11:24 AM (cB3Ay)

There are some things you can't do over the internet.  A class or lab is needed to provide the hands-on education you have to do in person.

And yes, no foreign chemical engineering student needs to be casing reservoirs at midnight without good cause.

138 Bad plan. No more immigration. Period. I'm serious. I'm libertarian on everything--but this. (Until someone can tell me how the welfare and preventive state will be deconstructed by importing new statists, this will continue to be my position.) Once there is a liberty consensus among the overwhelming majority of people currently here, we can discuss letting more people in. If we can identify some demographic somewhere that is pro-liberty, we should let them in en masse. (Cubans? Vietnamese? I don't know.) Otherwise, we need an immigration moratorium.

139 >>Can't you get around that by requiring the Selective Service number for all new applicants?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 05, 2013 11:23 AM (UypUQ)<<

That would only work for males, right?  And it still amounts to verifying prior to hiring, which is illegal.  You can do all the checking you want after, however you want to do it.  If you find out they are illegal, you are supposed to fire them. 

140

Posted by: rickb223 at June 05, 2013 11:24 AM

 

 

 

 

I'm not against people coming here to learn, what I was saying though is often the learning is directly funded by the US taxpayer.

 

We have great schools, let people come and learn, doesn't mean we have to pay for it.

141 Do you agree that it is incumbent upon the immigrant to show why immigration should be permitted rather than on the sovereign nation to show why the immigrant should be denied immigration into that sovereign nation? Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at June 05, 2013 11:21 AM (VtjlW) FLEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

142 Here is the link to it.  http://tinyurl.com/mfhdvq4

143 If I had that much of a concern, hell if I had pretty much any concern, that they weren't legal...I wouldn't hire them.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 11:25 AM (da5Wo)

^
^
^
No oblis English? Then go back to your 3rd world country Juan.

144

I am getting tired of the ten-foot fence idea.  That isn't a solution, especially in Texas.  Our southern border is a river, which is not only an international waterway, it is also     a source of water for everyone on our side.  You can't put the fence in the middle of the river, and you can't put it on the US    side without denying water to our own citizens.

 

The answer is enforcement and deportation,  which isn't happening at all.

145

Well I am in favor of sharply curtailing legal immigration, given the "multicultural" multi-communist poision in the bloodstream of the body politic. Moreover, certain categories of *legal* immigration are grossly abused.

1. “Refugee” status. Has been abused too often and the people who use it tend to become welfare junkies. Look up the Hmong people for a very sharp case in point. Sure from 1975-1990 they could claim justifiable persecution from the communists. But today, the Soviet empire is gone and Vietnam and Laos are trying to curry favor with the West. And even our vets are returning there for visits.

2. Family immigration “daisy chains”. The result here was bringing in Grandma and Grandpa to get on SSI.

3. H-1B visas. Indentured servants for the tech industry, and sometimes it does not stop there. These are the least objectionable because they are skilled and English speaking. However, if you are an American student who studied your engineering and programming hard and played by the rules, doesnÂ’t it just annoy you that your hard work was just devalued? And they want American kids to work and study hard? When something pays less, you get less of it.

4. The “diversity lottery”. This asinine program does not select immigrants on the basis of skills or even family reunification, but on the utterly false premise that “Diversity is Strength” (War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery). It also treats US citizenship like it is a lotto prize.

And frankly, culture ad especially language does matter, immgrants from cultures more similar to ours, and already speaking the language, are a better pick, given that we just canÂ’t open the flood gates to anybody.

146 MWR, did you see the story about the little deaf boy who was told by his school to change his name because the sign for it looked like a gun, and it violated the schools weapons policy? Posted by: no good deed at June 05, 2013 11:22 AM (mjR67) I gotta nitpick here. It's not his "name", it's his name sign. Big difference in the deaf culture. And yes, it's utterly absurd.

147 I'm in the more restrictive immigration overall camp.  We need a 10-20 year pause (i.e. maybe 5K exceptional people per year).  That will give us some time to get some assimilation going.

Importing STEM's is not a good idea.  It helped kill the tech boom of the 90's.  The flood of H1-B's that took place starting in the late 90's depressed wages and sent students looking for other careers.  Most of the H1-B's are wonder kids from overseas, they mainly are low level grunts that are cheaper than native citizens.  Simple solution is to limit H1-B's to some low number and then let companies bid on the people.  Then you'll get people who are truly needed.

Two words for visa overstays:  Bounty Hunters

148 However we resolve the legal status of people who now live here without permission, it MUST NOT include giving them the right to vote. This is for two reasons: 1) as one of the several costs of violating the law; 2) to not reward those in the government class who looked on such people as future supporters and votes.

149

Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:26 AM (KjlbF)

 

good to see you Muad'dib your fields must be a muddy mess?

150
That would only work for males, right? And it still amounts to verifying prior to hiring, which is illegal. You can do all the checking you want after, however you want to do it. If you find out they are illegal, you are supposed to fire them.

Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:26 AM (KjlbF)

Are you sure about checking stuff like SS#s?  I know for a fact that my credit background has been checked out prior to being hired, so I don't see how something like whether I've registered for Selective Service is any more intrusive.

151 Do you agree that it is incumbent upon the immigrant to show why immigration should be permitted rather than on the sovereign nation to show why the immigrant should be denied immigration into that sovereign nation?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at June 05, 2013 11:21 AM (VtjlW)


Come on My Queen, now you're making sense.
If it makes sense then our government will ignore it.

152 >>If I had that much of a concern, hell if I had pretty much any concern, that they weren't legal...I wouldn't hire them.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 11:25 AM (da5Wo)<<

Well, don't tell anyone then.  Because it is illegal to make hiring decisions based on country of origin, immigration status, or if they are work authorized.

http://tinyurl.com/67c3nv8

153 Posted by: tsrblke at June 05, 2013 11:23 AM (GaqMa)

You can edit out the crap that causes this by clicking on the far-right icon.

154 You. Have. To. Be. Kidding. Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at June 05, 2013 11:24 AM (tWmgi) Nope. That actually happened. I would be in jail for a very long time for what I did to the people who told me that had to be done. FLEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 11:26 AM (da5Wo) I see someone was paying attention.

155 Well, don't tell anyone then. Because it is illegal to make hiring decisions based on country of origin, immigration status, or if they are work authorized. http://tinyurl.com/67c3nv8 Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:29 AM (KjlbF) Read the rest of it: U.S. citizens, recent permanent residents, temporary residents, asylees and refugees are protected from citizenship status discrimination. Exceptions: permanent residents who do not apply for naturalization within six months of eligibility are not protected from citizenship status discrimination. Citizenship status discrimination which is otherwise required to comply with law, regulation, executive order, or government contract is permissible by law. Seeing as how it is illegal to hire illegals....

156 Posted by: Muad'dib at June 05, 2013 11:29 AM (KjlbF)

We started to do the initial interviews because HR fucked them up so badly.

We got tired of getting 300 pound fat lazy fucks to do manual labor that required dexterity and agility.

One thing they did screen for was eligibility. If the applicant wasn't legal, there was no way he was going to get a job.

It can be done.

157 Importing STEM's is not a good idea. It helped kill the tech boom of the 90's. The flood of H1-B's that took place starting in the late 90's depressed wages and sent students looking for other careers. That's actually a feature, not a bug. By depressing those wages, you make the overall cost of IT (especially software development/maintenance) go down- which, while bad for specific developers- is good for the rest of economy overall.

158 >>good to see you Muad'dib your fields must be a muddy mess?

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian at June 05, 2013 11:28 AM (HVff2)<<

No corn in our fields this year.  If it stops raining today, I could plant in maybe 10 days.  Even with 85 day corn, chances are I would lose it all with the first killing frost.  Last data I saw had only 60% of the corn in State wide.

159 Smooth move Blue-boy.

160 HTML hero.

161 Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 11:32 AM (da5Wo) Barrel. Also, I'm reinstituting the 1 internetz fine for failing to close formatting tags.

162

"Clearly the family [of the Boston bombers] was not well vetted since their subsequent actions show they had no reason to fear persecution in their homeland."

 

 

That does not necessarily follow, logically. It could be that it was unsafe for them to live there when they left, but that the situation changed by the time they returned. Things can change pretty quickly over there, and there were years inbetween.

 

 

That being said, that episode speaks to the unwise practice of allowing immigrants based on what the IMMIGRANT needs, vs. what they would do for US. The whole thing reeks, in fact, of the communist phrase (by Marx, I thonk), which goes something like "from each according to their ability; to each according to their need."

163 Excellent work on my previous comment. Fucking dolt. And screw you Pixy. I see someone was paying attention. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at June 05, 2013 11:32 AM (VtjlW) Ma'am, I've been married ten years this month. I'm not stupid. When a woman actually tells you the danger signs for an imminent explosion...you pay fucking attention.

164

Without A border wall, more enforcement, means hiring more public servants to enforce, more money required to pay enforcement, higher taxes to businesses for enforcement, less profit because of higher taxes, lower starting wage, fewer candidates for lower paying job because of higher taxes, more illegals to fill lower paying jobs, dog chasing tail. Build the fence first.

 

When there is a hole in a boat, does it make sense to bail out water without fixing the leak? That is what is being done when we surrender on building the great wall/fence border security and focus on internal employment enforcement. To say nothing of the underground economy.

 

Building a wall reduces the flow, which in turn allows employment enforcement to be less overwhelmed and have a more focused effort.

165 BC ----->  Barrel. 

166 Importing STEM's is not a good idea. It helped kill the tech boom of the 90's. The flood of H1-B's that took place starting in the late 90's depressed wages and sent students looking for other careers.

Two words for visa overstays: Bounty Hunters  Posted by: Chris at June 05, 2013 11:28 AM (Y90kj)

Exactly, I have been in IT for decades and have observed the H1B visa shenanigans first hand.  When you add in the language difficulties and their cultural biases--which are not all unicorn skittles, their usefulness goes way down.  Hiring managers love them because they work cheap--UNTIL--they get that magic 3-5 years experience.  Why not hire American kids who grew up on computers rather than wail that you must have these third worlders?

167 Start! Barrel time!

168

I know others will tell BC where to go, so I'll abstain.

169 *sigh* Dammit.

170 Bcochran please report to the Barrel. Bcochran please report to the Barrel.

171 tsrblke, try 2. I think it cuts more than that.

172 "Yes, these workers compete with Americans for high paying jobs but they are also the people who bring the highest skills that are likely to create the greatest spin off value to the wider economy."

In regard to H1-B's, it is disheartening to see people on "our side" who repeat this dogma without questioning it. Normally the people who do so have never worked in the industries in which H1-B's are most prevalent.

I have been a software engineer for 20 years and have worked with dozens of H1-B's. The vast majority of them are average, run of the mill folks who are doing work that 90% of American programmers can do.

When people like Zuckerberg and Gates are making claims that only foreign nationals have the skills and education to fill certain jobs, they are basically lying. Nothing Facebook is doing is rocket science and there are no shortage of citizens who can handle it.

In general, there is really no justification for bringing in millions of workers when 10's of millions of qualified Americans sit on the sidelines.

173 Enforce the laws that are on the books, then come back and talk about reform.

174 Sonofabitch!!!! Who fucking ate Mexican right before getting in this thing???

175 You can edit out the crap that causes this by clicking on the far-right icon.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 05, 2013 11:29 AM

 

 

 

 

Precisely 0 buttons on my bar work.  In fact until IE9 I didn't see any buttons at all (y'all can mock me for using IE all you want, but I happen to like it.)

176 Canadian citizens also have to pay taxes on earnings outside Canada, "Residents of Canada have to pay tax on their worldwide income to Canada no matter where they earn it," says Georgina Tollstam, an accountant and Partner with KPMG. Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 05, 2013 11:16 AM (R8hU You misunderstand the difference between citizenship and residency. If a Canadian citizen is not a RESIDENT of Canada, he doesnt pay Canadian taxes on non Canadian-sourced income.

177 tsrblke, try 2. I think it cuts more than that.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 05, 2013 11:35 AM (SUKHu)

 

Sigh, we'll try that then.

178 Let me try to post this again. U.S. citizens, recent permanent residents, temporary residents, asylees and refugees are protected from citizenship status discrimination. Exceptions: permanent residents who do not apply for naturalization within six months of eligibility are not protected from citizenship status discrimination. Citizenship status discrimination which is otherwise required to comply with law, regulation, executive order, or government contract is permissible by law. Seeing as how it is illegal to hire illegals....

179 @155 The Hmong have been treated horribly in Laos long after 1990. A BBC crew found some in a forest eating leaves maybe ten years ago. Of all the examples you could have used you picked allies we betrayed. And again.

180 Why the hell should/can we not build a fence along the entire border??  We're America, dammit!

You are naive about the sponsorship program.  There are certain "Asians" here in Dixie abusing that system.  One example: The applicant wants to come to US. They have a friend or usually, a family member already here; but that family member can't get his employer to be the sponsor (nepotism, etc.), so they ask a "favor" of one of their local Asian business suppliers.  Well, this supplier needs to keep selling his product to that company, so of course, they are happy to help.  So, they sponsor the applicant and pay the fees which are then REIMBURSED secretly by the applicant himself.  Later, when the application is approved, sometimes he will go on the payroll of the small company and sometimes not.  He might be on the payroll but working somewhere else--while funny money exchanges hands.

The application process is a complete joke.  You advertise in some no-name newspaper in order to prove you can't find a qualified applicant here in the US.  Complete hogwash!

Oh, if an applicant needs to show $X in the the bank, they just get someone to loan them the money, say about $25K to $30K, and let it sit in the bank until the process is approved, then they reimburse it back.

181

You know what, fuck it, I'm just going to start saying "@Person X"

So much easier.

182 >>Posted by: Mama AJ at June 05, 2013 11:35 AM (SUKHu)Sigh, we'll try that then. Snort. But the one that's there doesn't count. Delete it and put in two fresh ones. While standing on one foot.

183 :sigh: it seems the tuckpointers have not tarped my AC as promised, I hope there is no long term damage from this....

184 I am so happy I am moving out of SoCal.  I know things change but the changes here, culturally, have been a disaster.  Its only going to get worse.

185

@MamaAJ,

 

I did delete it, in fact in several of these I've deleted everything back to the "AM" part, just to be sure.

186
My point is that it is illegal for me to check until
after I hire them.

Posted by: Muad'dib




The Federal rule is you may e-verify only after employment has been offered and accepted, but you may use it before they start work.

That Federal may might be superseded by your state or local laws into a must or may not. Depends on where you are and what your company does.

187 177 Why not hire American kids who grew up on computers rather than wail that you must have these third worlders?   -----------   See? *This* is why we need things like OLPC. So the third-worlders can grow up on computers just like Americans and make more effective H1Bers.   It's a national security issue, folks!   (do I really need a [/sarc] tag?)
 

188

@158

 

 

Exactly.  It's societal suicide to accept immigrants who have habitually violated our law (by definition!).  Accepting their residence here is a practical necessity, and so making it legal to stay makes sense - but at the cost of surrendering any claim to ultimate citizenship.

 

 

If anything, we should amend the Constitution so that the children of people who are here illegally do not automatically become citizens, either. That policy rewards illegal behavior.

 

189 If we're talking about the economic impact of an immigrant as the sole or primary reason for allowing their immigration, we're doing it wrong. Look, basically the US can take 1 of 2 positions on (legal) immigration. We can allow it, or we can not allow it. Now, if you want not to allow it, that's certainly a position you can take. Good luck convincing the majority of Americans. If you want to allow immigration, then the question is not "which one benefits US workers more," because more competition for the same jobs will always hurt American workers. Whether it's low-skilled labor jobs or highly skilled technical jobs- more applicants for the same number of jobs depresses wages. Film at 11. So that cannot be the question, or you have to go back to "don't allow immigration." The question then must be: "which immigrants are most likely to add something to society? Which ones are most likely not to sponge off of our largesse, and are most likely to be able to take care of themselves?" And the answer to that is: "Highly skilled technical workers." It's that simple. Are there some real block-heads who get here on H1-B? Yes. I've worked with them. There are also some amazing folks who I'm glad I've worked with.

190 Well, then giving up is probably the best course of action.

191 "There are amnesty supporters who want to paint people who disagree with them as “anti-immigration”"

True but too many are quick to call people "amnesty lovers" for wanting immigration reform of any tyoe. As has happened to me on here any time I back the idea of having immigration reform.

Also, whenever I've brought up the language used at times by our side to describe immigrants being something that hurts us I'm automatically shouted down as an "amnesty lover".

People have been quick to call Rubio a RINO! and a traitor because he dared take this issue on, regardless of his otherwise 99% conservative voting record. I'm glad he's recognized that this bill has become an Obamacare-like monstrosity and it won't fix the problems it wants to adress and thus his likely "no" vote.

So while I appreciate Drew's post in trying to explain that Republicans and others on the right aren't anti-immigration, it doesn't negate where I have been dissapointed with my side on this issue.

192 How about no immigration at all for a generation or so?  Is none good for you?

Toss out the criminals and don't let in any more (Islamists especially), and cut immigration to zero for, say, two decades.  This country is too crowded as it is.

193 Ma'am, I've been married ten years this month. I'm not stupid. When a woman actually tells you the danger signs for an imminent explosion...you pay fucking attention. Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 05, 2013 11:34 AM (da5Wo) Thus explaining how you managed to be married for ten years. Congrats btw.

194 @183. I beg to differ. I had an H1-B visa until a few years ago when I got my permanent residency. My experience is that most graduate students (esp. PhD students) in engineering and probably Physics and Math are foreigners. While I was getting my PhD, there was a class that came in that had just one white guy, who was a Canadian. I can tell you that the research divisions of Pharma companies would be doomed without foreign workers. Part of what enrages me about the whole amnesty debacle is that I know how difficult it has been for highly educated family members who are following the rules to get permanent residency or even H1-B visas. When my dad died, I got word from that my H1-B visa was denied because it got there too late. (It got there well before the deadline, in fact, just a few days after applications had started being accepted, but the quota had been reached already.) Unlike the illegals here, I was fully prepared to go back home for my dad's funeral even if it meant not coming back. Luckily things worked out in the end. Sure, we foreigners don't have a right to be here, but I think America would be a lot better off if, as Drew mentioned, they adopted a sensible immigration policy like Canada where the goal is to improve the quality of people in the country and import the cream of the crop.

195 Oh, and implement severe penalties for hiring or renting to illegals, knowingly or unknowingly.  The "unknowingly" part will make employers/landlords less likely to take a chance; they won't be able to say, "We had no idea he wasn't a U.S. citizen!!"  (Did the fact he couldn't speak any English make any impression on you?)

Severe penalties?  We take, say, half your company's assets and profits for one year.   Do it again, the punishment goes up to 75%.  (After that the company won't be able to hire anybody.)  And be sure to publish the results, to "encourage the others."

196 "This country is too crowded as it is."

From a pure population standpoint this is nonesense. From an economic standpoint in regards to the monster we've created with the entitlements I would say you have a good point.

197 Oh- another thing - we have been flooded with Chinese. Many of whom are spies. Between Mexicans who hate us, and Chinese spies, and muslims... After 9/11, it seems the floodgates opened. More and more I see muslim women, surly muslim and mexican men... LOTS of alien people with scowls on their faces. What the heck?

198 Why do you idiots continue to parrot the liberal media by referring to these people as immigrants? The vast majority are anything but. Like those refugees currently choking Jordan to death, they're transients and economic refugees from failed states who will go and come wherever their interests get served best.

Just imagine how vastly different this whole debate would be, including all the free goodies these refugees can gobble up, if instead of the Orwellian "immigration reform" the discussion was properly referred to as "the economic refugee problem".

199

The Hmong have been treated horribly in Laos long after 1990. A BBC crew found some in a forest eating leaves maybe ten years ago.

Of all the examples you could have used you picked allies we betrayed. And again.

I use the Hmong as an example of welfare dependency.

 

Perhaps I should have been clearer what I meant about recent Vietnamese immigrants today, who don't have the anti-communist sensibility their forebears of a generation or two ago did.

And I have nothing but loathing for the Left, believe me.

200 I'm one that would suspend or limit even legal immigration while we have an unemployment rate above 7%. Nothing personal, just business.

201 207 "This country is too crowded as it is."

From a pure population standpoint this is nonesense.
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Have you been in rush hour traffic in a big population center recently?  Or stood in line anywhere?  No, not out in the wide open spaces of New Mexico or Utah -- and if I could afford to live there I'd head out in a second -- but in the cities, we have too many humans.  Partly because of the illegal immigrants, of course.

202 "Have you been in rush hour traffic in a big population center recently?"

no one is forcing you to live in the crowded city

203

Current LEGAL immigration is 1 Million a year.

 

This bill would legalize 11 Million... that they admit to... more like double to triple that number...

 

This bill would also clean up the backlog by as much as Tripling the Legal immigration rate...

 

So in a decade... we could have 50-60 million new immigrants... dropping into the existing already overextended Social Support infrastructure.... that's 15% to 20% of the entire population.

 

 

But the only choices you give us.... are MORE immigration... or UNLIMITED immigration...

Now, in many parts of the country, like where I live in Central California, we already HAVE a huge assimilation problem... Billboards... radio stations... businesses... Drs... all in Spanish...

204

When I was in Hawaii, I heard a guy on a pay phone hatching a plan to sneak into Australia.

 

It's simple, really.  He should head over to Bali, find an Arab people smuggler, pay him $10,000, get on a leaky boat and throw away his passport.  The boat get's picked up by Australian Navy vessell and towed into an Australian off-shore processing centers which are so crowded that the illegals are flown onto the mainland and once there just disappear into the general population. 

 

That's how most of the Middle East and Sri Lankans do it.

205 MWR, I am now suffering from a rage stroke upon reading the nood. 

206 As much as we might want to prohibit birthright citizenship for children born in the U.S. to illegal alien parents, I don't see that happening. It would take a constitutional amendment, and we have no chance of getting that, at least not as politics stand now. A constitutional amendment requires 2/3 votes in both houses of Congress. We'll be lucky to get 41 senators who don't want to establish amnesty on the Gang of Eight bill.

But even if we got a constitutional amendment through Congress, we'd need 38 state legislatures to approve the amendment. Please let me know which four of the following legislatures you expect to pass an amendment to stop citizenship for children of illegal aliens: Hawaii, California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine. And once you get four of those states, you still need to get all 34 of the others, too.

207

"177 ... Exactly, I have been in IT for decades and have observed the H1B visa shenanigans first hand. When you add in the language difficulties and their cultural biases--which are not all unicorn skittles, their usefulness goes way down. Hiring managers love them because they work cheap--UNTIL--they get that magic 3-5 years experience. Why not hire American kids who grew up on computers rather than wail that you must have these third worlders?"

 

 

 

I'm somewhat surprised at the anti-capitalistic comments I'm seeing here.  If these guys start getting paid a lot, it's partly (or mostly) because they are productive. Those are the people you want as immigrants. If that depresses the price of that kind of labor, it makes the country as a whole richer in exactly the same way as if the price of oil were to drop.

 

"American kids who grew up on computers"?  Playing video games and doing science, technology, engineering, and math are VERY different things.  Hell, when computers were first coming on the scene I started seeing High School kids learning to program. Then they started to require programming as part of an engineering curriculum. Programming is something a high-schooler should be able to handle, but nobody does. It's like they think actually programming is only for people in India, and "using computers" means using the code written by said Asian Indians.

 

Likewise, "technology" and "IT" mostly means "learning to use whatever the current hardware and software is commonplace", doesn't it? Which is the least difficult of the four things that "STEM" means.

 

208

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at June 05, 2013 11:47 AM (BDU/a)

 

Its already a FELONY to knowingly hire an illegal...

 

Its just not enforced.

 

The problem is not that we don't have laws... its that they are not enforced...

 

Thus... they say... to fix the problem we need MORE Laws...

 

/facepalm

209 20% unemployment, and fools want to import more illiterates. Gov. going broke and compassionate souls want to add more to the rolls. What could go wrong?

210 213 "Have you been in rush hour traffic in a big population center recently?"

no one is forcing you to live in the crowded city
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One word:  Jobs.  That's where they are.  Thanks in part to JEF, my chances of finding something at my age in a smaller town are slim and none, and Slim left town in the winter of '92.

Still, when you call a company on the phone and have to wait for what feels like hours before someone gets to you, you begin to realize there are far too many people.

211

Currently high-skilled workers compete for a relatively few visas that are tied to the immigrant's ability to find a company to sponsor their application.

 

Just hold an auction every year.  Heck, throw the 'high skills' folks and the family reunification folks into the auction too.  If you want your foreigner daddy or your filipina bride to live with you bad enough, pony up.

212   219 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at June 05, 2013 11:47 AM (BDU/a)

Its already a FELONY to knowingly hire an illegal...

Its just not enforced.

The problem is not that we don't have laws... its that they are not enforced...

Thus... they say... to fix the problem we need MORE Laws...

/facepalm
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No, not more laws.  This would simply be a way to enforce the existing ones.

213 "and fools want to import more illiterates."

I can actually read pretty damn well brother.

214

Wolfus @206 --- go to hell.

 

It isn't the job of a business to patrol this country's border.  Every business in this country should be able to hire whoever they want to that asks for a job.  They should be secure in knowing that the federal government did their job in only allowing into the country those who they want to and the businesses should be secure in knowing that the state governments have incarcerated all the criminals.

If anything, when a business hires an illegal knowingly or unknowingly, the only person that should be prosecuted is the government official who put that company at risk by letting an illegal into the country.

 

Just what we need a federal government that goes to court to sue states like Arizona because the feds say it is solely their responsibility to enforce immigration, then turn around and prosecute private citizens because now they say it is the private citizen's job to enforce immigration laws.

 

Go to hell

 

 

215

Posted by: Optimizer at June 05, 2013 11:54 AM (Mxt9o)

 

In Denver... I know for a FACT that there are closed shops... where if you don't speak the requisite language (Farsi or whatever)... you will NOT get a job.

 

There was even a legal group that did Seminars on how to bypass the Legal requirements needed to get H1B workers...

 

What folks don't understand is that its all well and good for US not to be Racist... and not disadvantage other Races/ Societies... but THEY do not do the same for us... therefore putting us at a disadvantage in our own dam country.

216

People have been quick to call Rubio a RINO! and a traitor because he dared take this issue on, regardless of his otherwise 99% conservative voting record. I'm glad he's recognized that this bill has become an Obamacare-like monstrosity and it won't fix the problems it wants to adress and thus his likely "no" vote.

 

Only a likely 'no' vote?  Even after all the kerfuffle his 'no' vote is not assured?  He's lost the shot at even RINO status with that.

217 doug #225. I was about to tell Wolf #206 that the problem with asking employers/landlords to enforce immigration laws is that then they get whip-sawed by discrimination lawsuits. I think that is a more polite way to get your point across?

218

"217 As much as we might want to prohibit birthright citizenship for children born in the U.S. to illegal alien parents, I don't see that happening. ... "

 

 

What should be done and what can be done as a practical political reality are certainly two different things, but if you're going to argue on principle, which is the only legitimate argument, denying US citizenship to the children of illegal aliens (even if they grow up here unaware of their status - that's on their parents, not us) is part of what makes sense.

 

219

@225

 

Amen!

220 Posted by: DrewM. at June 05, 2013 11:12 AM (AFi9e) Here's the problem, as I see it: We already have a model for the "more skilled workers" angle in the biotech industry, and it's not particularly positive. Politicians have been beating the drums of "More scientists!" for decades. "More scientists means more innovation!" And we have more scientists now; we graduate thousands of scientists every year. But what's happened in the mean time? A vicious feedback loop. More scientists meant more competition for jobs and lower wages. More people went to grad school, either to escape that cycle or just because they felt the passion for the field. Too many PhDs resulted in the creation of the "Postdoc" position, in which someone with a PhD gets paid peanuts to do grunt work under the guise of "training." Now the entire academic research industry would collapse if you changed anything. Schools bring in graduate students and postdocs to cheaply perform the research for the professors. These folks graduate only to find there are no jobs, or that their wages are severely depressed. For as many people are getting advanced degrees in the biotech field, many are leaving because it's just not feasible to stay. The average time between graduating with a PhD in a biotech field and getting a non-postdoc job is ~10 years. The point in all of this is that simply shoving more creative people into the room might result in more creation and better results. It might not. But given that there are already a lot of people present, all you've done is made them even more uncomfortable than they were before. And just to illustrate this personally: I have multiple advanced biotech degrees, and I make the same as the secretary across town. You can argue that making me compete with foreign nationals for a job will bring economic benefit to the country as a whole, but all I'm left to wonder is whether I'll ever be able to buy a house or start a family with my paltry salary.

221 " He's lost the shot at even RINO status with that."

You're right, let's ignore all those times he voted the way you wanted him to because he dare touch something you want to keep ignoring

222 228 doug #225. I was about to tell Wolf #206 that the problem with asking employers/landlords to enforce immigration laws is that then they get whip-sawed by discrimination lawsuits. I think that is a more polite way to get your point across?
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Why should illegal immigrants be able to file a discrimination lawsuit?  They should be in jail or tossed back to their original country.  Would they have standing to file such a lawsuit?  Should they?

What did America do in the Fifties, before the machinery of government became so huge and clanking?  I've heard about Operation Wetback, which is an idea whose time has come again.  What else did we do?  Nothing?

223

You're right, let's ignore all those times he voted the way you wanted him to because he dare touch something you want to keep ignoring

 

He's condoning Schumer's Fraud. Sorry, we don't like it.

224 Besides, I'm not suggesting employers and landlords have to "enforce immigration laws."  All they need to do is look at a prospective employee.  If he clearly does not speak English, strike one.  If he doesn't have the immigration documents of a legal immigrant, that's strikes two and three.  "Sorry, we can't hire you.  Next."  Of course it would be an onerous burden for the employer to have to examine the applicant's papers, make sure they were correct and legal and authentic (which employers have to do some of now, don't they?). 

225

<i> Why should illegal immigrants be able to file a discrimination lawsuit? They should be in jail or tossed back to their original country. Would they have standing to file such a lawsuit? Should they? </i>

 

Lawfare. It is what the Commiecrats do. :-(

 

We need to change that first.

226 225 Of course it would be an onerous burden for the employer to have to examine the applicant's papers, make sure they were correct and legal and authentic (which employers have to do some of now, don't they?). Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius.

Wow, you have no idea.  Obviously NOT an employer.

227 Why do we all any immigration? The real unemployment rate is very high and immigrants do nothing more than drive down wages for Americans. Immigration should be shut off entirely until we get back on our feet. Anything else is just taking money from our pockets and further balkanizing our country.

228 237 225 Of course it would be an onerous burden for the employer to have to examine the applicant's papers, make sure they were correct and legal and authentic (which employers have to do some of now, don't they?). Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius.

Wow, you have no idea. Obviously NOT an employer.
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Ah, but I see what HR has to go through, and the hoops they make us jump through, to hire even a part-time person; so yes, I do have an idea.  I'm not suggesting that employers have to test the applicant's documents for authenticity (nor should they).  But there's a million forms, it seems, and they grow and change every year (which is part of what we're complaining about, the massive bureaucracy of the Fed Govt.).  Every time a bureaucracy "reinvents" itself, its name gets longer and all the forms go through a revision. 

229

 have a suggestion. I live along the northern border and we have heard in the past week that there is a move afoot to tax people crossing the borders to pay for maintenance and upgrades. At the same time I understand that the fine the illegals are being asked to pay is $500 which is 5% of the fine assessed for a Class III Federal Misdemeanor. Why not make it hurt a little more than that. Take the cost for constructing, maintaining and operating a fully secure border, which is currently estimated at about $25 billion (and triple that because, you know, Government) and then divide that by the number of illegals in the country, currently estimated at 12 million. The resulting number ($6250) should be the cost for the illegals to buy into the start of a procedure to give them some form of legality. No guarantees, just the opening ante.

230 what do you call: 100 buses carrying 50 people each making two trips per day for 300 days can deport 3 million illegal trespassers. - A good start! - Also, deport the HR person that hired them...

231 We also need to strengthen laws around the use of fraudulent identity documents such as Social Security cards. Conviction on any of these types of charges would mean automatic deportation. ___________________________ In the current "gang of 8" amnesty bill, there is a provision that says NO illegal alien can be denied amnesty because the illegal alien has committed identity theft, Social Security fraud, document fraud or perjury (such as falsely claiming to be a U.S. citizen on a voter registration or welfare application form). If that were not bad enough, the amnesty bill also says that amnestied illegal aliens who've committed crimes in the U.S. such as identity theft, Social Security fraud, document fraud, etc., can NOT be criminally prosecuted for those crimes!

232 Posted by: Hal at June 05, 2013 12:04 PM (MftY/) I disagree with how you look at that job market. When you're talking about scientists, design engineers, etc you're talking about people who create new products, new technologies, new industries. Of course not everyone creates something spectacularly new but you can't just say, "oh well take the ones that will be rock stars". You have to take 1,000 to find 1 who changes things but the payoff is worth it. As someone pointed out up thread, we're not going to shut off all immigration so we're really talking about the kinds of people we want. Highly educated, creative and skilled people seem to fit the bill. And again, American high-tech workers are for the most part competing with the same people regardless of where they live. Better to have them here and reap the benefits than have them build and create things elsewhere.

233 #225 - Letting employers continue to knowingly hire illegal aliens is making life hell for thousands of unemployed Americans. "The H1-B Visa system needs to be completely replaced. Currently high-skilled workers compete for a relatively few visas that are tied to the immigrant's ability to find a company to sponsor their application. The worker then essentially becomes tied to that company in a form of expensive indentured servitude. Yes, these workers compete with Americans for high paying jobs but they are also the people who bring the highest skills that are likely to create the greatest spin off value to the wider economy. A system that enables creative people freedom to utilize their skills and create more opportunity for others is one we need to embrace to grow our economy and compete in the global market. These types of workers are in demand around the world; itÂ’s silly not to be competitive for them. They are going to go somewhere and crate value; it might as well be here." NO. We need to exploit the native American labor force. Let's be clear - nobody on Earth is importing America's unemployed. They are developing their own populations to the point they can export labor to the United States at a time when only 60% of working-age Americans are employed. We do not need to bring the best and brightest here and let them wander around taking jobs from Americans. More than ever before, probably to a greater degree than at the end of WW2, we need to make it easier for adults to obtain high-level training.

234 No. No. And fuck no.

235   245  NO. We need to exploit the native American labor force. Let's be clear - nobody on Earth is importing America's unemployed. They are developing their own populations to the point they can export labor to the United States at a time when only 60% of working-age Americans are employed. We do not need to bring the best and brightest here and let them wander around taking jobs from Americans. More than ever before, probably to a greater degree than at the end of WW2, we need to make it easier for adults to obtain high-level training. 
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This.  I'd more than cheerfully go back to school if it meant I could get back into the computer field, or any other high-level position. 

236

The H1B system is terrible. I remember working with a guy from India who had two advanced degrees in IT. He could do anything: programming, project management, business analysis, architecture. He literally saved us $500K on one phase of a project just because he knew how to solve a problem and we didn't have to use a 3rd party.

He wasn't saving us money. The company he ultimately worked for was paying $90 / hr for his labor. (I know this because I was the project manager.) This was paid to a 3rd party staffing company common in IT. They, in turn, paid his company about $60 / hr. for his labor and also sponsored his H1B visa.

Ravi only grossed about $30 / hr.! For a highly skilled IT worker, this was less than half what the market would pay for someone of his level. He made so little because there were two companies taking their cut of his profits. I also know for a fact that he wasn't displacing any American's because I did the hiring. I couldn't find anyone who even came close to his skill level. They just weren't available at any price.

He worked under these conditions for 10 years until he finally got his Green Card and is now a U.S. Citizen. Good for him. He earned it.

I would hire Ravi and anyone like him every day of the week. I hate the fact that we put highly skilled labor in the same category as unskilled peasants from 3rd world shitholes. Guys like Ravi should get a fastpass to the front of the line, not have to work for 10 years in sweatshop conditions while landscapers and chicken processors slink across the border. We penalize the folks with skills who follow the rules and give those with limited ecomic value a pass. It isn't fair. It is a form of corporate slavery and is injust.

237 >>>They are developing their own populations to the point they can export labor to the United States at a time when only 60% of working-age Americans are employed.>>> They are developing their own populations? Those Chinese national students aren't being grown in vats, you know. They come to universities here because they see opportunity. American protectionism doesn't make much sense considering that if America is really, truly the land of opportunity, the kinds of immigrants we attract are going to tend to stick around.

238 American protectionism doesn't make much sense considering that if America is really, truly the land of opportunity, the kinds of immigrants we attract are going to tend to stick around.
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We used to think that would work, because the new immigrants would assimilate and become "Americans."  Nowadays, it doesn't seem like they want to bother.

239

<i>We used to think that would work, because the new immigrants would assimilate and become "Americans." Nowadays, it doesn't seem like they want to bother. </i>

 

This. Until we purge the "multicultural" / multicommunist poison from the body politic, we need to curtail immigration.

240 FYI for those who still want a solid wall, in Texas any fencing has to be built well north of the border, often on private land, which has to be condemned. A wall in TX fences off US citizens and their land from the rest of the US. Also, it just slows them down, so you still need patrols. They go over the new fencing pretty easily and they cut through the older fencing, although some of that has been replaced with cut-resistant material.

241 Throw 50,000 volts at a few hundred KVA in that fence and bolt cutters don't work so well.

242 As long as we pimp out the K12 system to the indoctrinators we'll wind up at the back end with a real shortage of locals who can make shit work. The H1B system lets us survive this idiocy just a little longer. After I seize power I'm going to make H1B to greencard take about 3 months and shut down unskilled completely.

243 253 & 254 In the 1950s, when they weren't impressing anybody with their resources, the French put up an electrified fence between Tunisia and Algeria. It worked even though the fellagha learned to put rubber mats and planks over the lines. The point of the fence was not to be an impenetrable barrier. The point was to enable the patrol force to spot a breach quickly and respond from all sides to the people walking over the border. The concept of a real fence includes a real force to contain it. And if we end up taking a zone a half-mile wide along our border in eminent domain, so be it.

244   254  254 Throw 50,000 volts at a few hundred KVA in that fence and bolt cutters don't work so well.
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We'll need big signs in English and Spanish saying "If You Touch This Wall You Will Die."  If anybody complains, we point to the sign: "We warned 'em, didn't we?"

245 I'd prefer one of those warning signs with the international symbols. You know, the ones with round heads and no neck? Do something that looks like a round head on a body of bacon, touching an electric fence. Get the guy who designs Ikea instructions to work on it. That should do.

246 Make wire transfers of funds to all latin american countries a federal offense. Bye-bye Jose and Consuela!

247 I would make a condition of amnesty that any chance of full citizenship and voting rights be foregone forever for the illegal and all their dependents (including in-utero). This would prevent the importation of a loyal electorate by one or the other party. Also - conviction for any criminal offence at all should = immediate deportation without appeal.

248

Border Warning Sign, Revision 1.

http://flic.kr/p/eDZLg1

249

Thankyouverymuch for the H1B visa, my good friend! I am too terribly scared that you may teach your young ones how to work, I am praying to Vishnu that your government will control your schools for a loooong time ho ho ho ho ho!

 

Do you know how many rupees a dollar can buy veryvery many I can tell you that. With the $15.00 I am sending home every month, my mother and twelve sisters may be able to live one day without needing to sweep strangers' feces out of public toilets.

 

And I must tell you that even when I am working with my three other H1B brothers in a cubicle meant to hold only one of you cow-like Americans, it is still veryvery spacious compared to our shack in Calcutta oh yes indeed.

250 Good stuff Drew, well said.

251 "American protectionism doesn't make much sense considering that if America is really, truly the land of opportunity, the kinds of immigrants we attract are going to tend to stick around." Yeah, I've heard the shibboleths about "protectionism". Thing is, in this country, the commodity of labor is also the primary political clay. We can probably get by without fully exploiting our land, petroleum, broadcast frequencies, mineral ore and software copyrights. Letting our labor rot because it's just not commercially viable in the global economy, is going to rot our country. Or as our great-grandparents loved to say, Idleness is the Devil's Playground.