Ace of Spades HQ

July 25, 2013

Investigation Opened into Conductor of Derailed Spanish Train
— Ace

As you can imagine. Of the 247 passengers, 78 were killed.

The impact was so huge one carriage flew several meters into the air and landed on the other side of the high concrete barrier.
"We heard a massive noise and we went down the tracks. I helped get a few injured and bodies out of the train. I went into one of the cars but I'd rather not tell you what I saw there," Ricardo Martinez, a 47-year old baker from Santiago de Compostela, told Reuters.
The train driver was under formal police investigation, a spokeswoman for Galicia's Supreme Court told Reuters, without naming him. The train had two drivers and one was in hospital, the Galicia government said.

The driver took the sharp turn at a very high rate of speed-- 120mph. The speed limit was 80mph (which itself seems pretty fast). I don't see how anyone could blow through this turn at 120mph thinking he'd somehow stay on the tracks.

I think the drivers may have survived because there was nothing to slow the engine from skidding along the track on its side; they wouldn't have gotten the massively fast stoppage that could kill a man. But the cars behind them, the ones whose momentum was blocked by overturned cars, would have gotten the worst of it, the sudden stop that's little different than falling from 70 feet (or whatever the math works out to).

I'm really linking that as an excuse to relink the video of the derailment that @benk84 linked in the headlines. It's incredible, awful. It's not gory in the tape itself, as you see no human beings, but it's terrible in the imagination, as you can visualize in your mind what a crash of this speed could do to a human body.

Posted by: Ace at 09:19 AM | Comments (300)
Post contains 315 words, total size 2 kb.

1 first

Posted by: Mallfly at July 25, 2013 09:22 AM (bJm7W)

2 Driver took it at 190 klicks. Turn was rated for 80 klicks. Per Daily Mail.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:22 AM (3ms7d)

3 The driver took the sharp turn at a very high rate of speed-- 120mph. The speed limit was 80mph (which itself seems pretty fast). I don't see how anyone could blow through this turn at 120mph thinking he'd somehow stay on the tracks. So, why would he do it? It's not gory in the tape itself, as you see no human beings, but it's terrible in the imagination, as you can visualize in your mind what a crash of this speed could do to a human body. I'll admit that I wondered what that guy who crashed going over 300 miles an hour on a motorcycle looked like afterwards.

Posted by: Dah Duke! at July 25, 2013 09:23 AM (ECoxZ)

4 The driver took the sharp turn at a very high rate of speed-- 120mph. The speed limit was 80mph (which itself seems pretty fast). I don't see how anyone could blow through this turn at 120mph thinking he'd somehow stay on the tracks. Those Sexts require concentration and they aren't gonna send themselves

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at July 25, 2013 09:23 AM (MhA4j)

I'm not sure if the rail lines are state owned monopolies over in Spain but I'd imagine they are.

Posted by: Ben at July 25, 2013 09:24 AM (rYSAQ)

6 120 mph in a 50 mph zone.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:24 AM (3ms7d)

7 God bless the victims and their loved ones.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:24 AM (4df7R)

8 You know what this country needs? High-speed rail. Operated by the government.

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:25 AM (0Rwpi)

9 High Speed trains don't crash often. But when they do, they crash the fuck out of that shit.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:25 AM (KXm42)

10 This happened in Japan before. A driver was 28 seconds behind schedule and decided to go to full throttle. He tried to brake before a sharp turn and ended up jumping the tracks into an apartment building.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:25 AM (GQ8sn)

So, why would he do it?

He didn't do it on purpose - he was still sleeping off the ganja.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (54/YX)

12 There was a bad train crash in 2008 in LA. The guy was texting. But, I'm not sure that was the cause or the sole cause of the crash.

Posted by: Dah Duke! at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (ECoxZ)

13 Hey, what happened to Drew of Spades?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (eHIJJ)

14 Asiana Airlines First Officer Wing Tu Lo sends his condolences and points out that he only killed two people.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (8ZskC)

Ace, the speeds from the Reuters story are 190kmph (120mph), and 80 kmph.

El Pais newspaper said one of the drivers told the railway station by radio after being trapped in his cabin that the train entered the bend at 190 kilometers per hour (120 mph). An official source said the speed limit on that stretch of twin track, laid in 2011, was 80 kmph.

80km/h is approximately 50mph.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (4df7R)

16 Anyone want to bet that the driver was Muhammad squared?

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (ELdpj)

17 "Investigation Opened into Conductor of Derailed Spanish Train"

Conductor?

The ticket-taker?

Perhaps "Driver" or "Operator" or "Engineer" would be more apposite.

Posted by: torquewrench at July 25, 2013 09:26 AM (gqT4g)

Well put

Posted by: Ben at July 25, 2013 09:27 AM (rYSAQ)

19 Horrible. How dangerous are trains in general, compared to less-socialist means of transportation?

Posted by: Jenny Hates All The Things at July 25, 2013 09:27 AM (vgyox)

20 Word is that the train just came out of maintenance so maybe sabotage is at play here.

Posted by: exurbanDoug at July 25, 2013 09:27 AM (YUaw+)

21 Awful.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (lVPtV)

22 OT: Anthony Weiner the peter tweeter: you'll never know where he will pop up! h/t jay leno

Posted by: Dah Duke! at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (ECoxZ)

23 Speaking of crashes, in PPP's national 2016 poll out today, Rubio has fallen from 1st to 6th place, and is now behind Cruz.

Rand Paul- 16%
Bush, Christie, Ryan- 13%
Cruz- 12%
Rubio- 10%.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (7tgPV)

24 8 You know what this country needs? High-speed rail. Operated by the government. Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 01:25 PM (0Rwpi) Maybe an airline, too.

Posted by: BignJames at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (ZNQKl)

25 "Investigation Opened into Conductor of Derailed Spanish Train" Conductor? The ticket-taker? Perhaps "Driver" or "Operator" or "Engineer" would be more apposite. Unfortunately at this point, "undertaker."

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (0Rwpi)

26 And no -- I can not will not watch. I have a vivid imagination. Which is a blessing and a curse.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (KXm42)

27 and I saw the video. It looks like a car behind the engine slammed into something (perhaps tilted too far to one side) on the side. I would think that high speed trains are not meant to run at high speeds all the time, but I guess no one has figured out how to make sure trains stay within their limits. And now that I think of it, is Spain really large enough to need trains that move that fast?
Can one imagine that, if a Repub Admin wanted to build high speed trains, the Dems would endlessly use this video to oppose it? Kind of like that pipeline that's supposed to every day carry 700,00 gallons of rocks?

Posted by: Mallfly at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (bJm7W)

28 Idiocy.

Posted by: Cato at July 25, 2013 09:28 AM (KJnit)

29 How dangerous are trains in general, compared to less-socialist means of transportation?

Posted by: Jenny Hates All The Things at July 25, 2013 01:27 PM (vgyox)

Trains aren't dangerous at all. Just cost about 8x more per passenger mile than automobiles, and pollute at a much higher rate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:29 AM (54/YX)

30 OK, so who's the asshole that let Biden take the controls?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 09:29 AM (SY2Kh)

31 I love traveling by train overseas. I do hope the "engineer" is going to prison for a long, long time. I want to know his name and if he mentioned "snack bar" before hitting the gas.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Redneck Queen at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (baL2B)

32 4 The driver took the sharp turn at a very high rate of speed-- 120mph. The speed limit was 80mph (which itself seems pretty fast). I don't see how anyone could blow through this turn at 120mph thinking he'd somehow stay on the tracks. I don't think that is right. That should be 80 KPH (kilometers) which would be about 50 mph. And he took it at 120 kph.

Posted by: Ma Bell at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (RLdcX)

I'd note ace, I've ridden the AVE before in Spain.

And although this is not the same set of trains, I am to understand that the Avelia is a variable high speed line.

The AVE had some pretty high tech in it designed to allow the train to take curves at high speed, I'm guessing the Avelia doesn't (hence the "variable" part)

I'd note that when I rode the AVE, and it banked, you could seriously feel it, and had to grab your drink lest it start to slide off your tray.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (GaqMa)

34 Is this guy related to the jerkoff captain of the Costa Concordia?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (4df7R)

35 California officials predict that the odds of a fatal crash on the planned Fresno-to-Bakersfield high-speed rail route are extremely low because the trains are expected to usually be empty.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (8ZskC)

36 Obama has nominated him to head the NTSB.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:30 AM (MMC8r)

37 I bet google has a robot that could drive the train better than that and wouldn't haven to pay union dues

Posted by: tmitsss at July 25, 2013 09:31 AM (Pa9vP)

38 I'm not a railroad engineer but I have seen the movie Unstoppable. It seems to me if you're doing 120mph thru a curve designed for 80mph, Newton's laws of motion will rise up and bite your ass

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:31 AM (8sCoq)

39 I bet google has a robot that could drive the train better than that and wouldn't haven to pay union dues

Posted by: tmitsss at July 25, 2013 01:31 PM (Pa9vP)

If that robot can vote, we have a viable candidate

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:31 AM (54/YX)

40 On time.

Not late. Not early. On time.

Sheesh-issimo.

Posted by: Zombie Benito at July 25, 2013 09:31 AM (eHIJJ)

41 Wait, wait, hold it a minute... Trains have drivers? What the hell is this, 1880? Has nobody heard of those fancy adding machines?

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 09:31 AM (T0NGe)

42 Why do high-speed trains have humans at the controls anyway? Besides unions, I mean.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (8ZskC)

43 Train accidents are horrific for passengers. My dad had a book about 19th century wrecks with early photography. It's tough to see how anyone could survive.

Posted by: RS at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (YAGV/)

44 It's remarkable how climate change can cause so much tragedy and death. Just wait. Someone will blame it.

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (0Rwpi)

45 The description of O'BumbleCare as a "Train Wreck" now has a "thousand word" photo to go with it. RIP x 80.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (ndlFj)

46 I would make a Thomas The Tank Engine joke here, but I won't.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (GQ8sn)

47 Trains have drivers because Unions.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (ZshNr)

48 "The driver took the sharp turn at a very high rate of speed-- 120mph. The speed limit was 80mph (which itself seems pretty fast). I don't see how anyone could blow through this turn at 120mph thinking he'd somehow stay on the tracks." The speed limit for that corner, according to the Reuter's article you linked, is 50 mph (80 kmph). Not 80 mph. So if the train was doing 120 mph (190 kmph), as reported, then we are talking about the train being 140% over the speed limit instead of 50% over the speed limit.

Posted by: NotCoach at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (rsudF)

49 42 Why do high-speed trains have humans at the controls anyway? Besides unions, I mean. You would prefer Windows Vista?

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:32 AM (MMC8r)

50 Why do high-speed trains have humans at the controls anyway? Besides unions, I mean.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 01:32 PM (8ZskC)

The same reason airliners do. Starting and stopping, plus the occasional Holy Shit moment.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:33 AM (54/YX)

51 So criminal conspiracy or the Hispano Version of Idiocracy? "Yeah my ex-wife was retarded she's a pilot now..."

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:33 AM (+MBHz)

52 Fresno to Bakersfield? Shirley you jest.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (KXm42)

53 "42 Why do high-speed trains have humans at the controls anyway? Besides unions, I mean. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 01:32 PM (8ZskC) " Seriously? No thank you to totally automated passenger vehicles.

Posted by: NotCoach at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (rsudF)

54 If Google has that robot, it'll know where all the camps are. Well, the Evil ones anyway.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (eHIJJ)

55 There had to at least be warning lights/sirens going off, right? It's not like the route varies. Train always has to slow down.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (ZshNr)

56 >California officials predict that the odds of a fatal crash on the planned Fresno-to-Bakersfield high-speed rail route are extremely low because the trains are expected to usually be empty.

we have light rail here in Jefferson County! Every time I am stopped at a crossing as the train goes by, I can't help noticing that the occupancy seems to be about 1 person per train car.

We're talking a four car train that has four people plus the operator. I am guessing this is not cost-effective.

But light rail!

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (8sCoq)

57 47 Trains have drivers because Unions. A decent union would have a "driver" who does nothing but sit in the cockpit watching the blinking lights. Also a co-pilot and navigator. They need a better class of corrupt union.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (T0NGe)

58 Just read the article and the line "firefighters came off of strike" caught my eye. Eeeek. Glad they did the right thing and stopped their strike for now but geeze, is there ever a time when some public employee union in Europe isn't on strike?

Posted by: Jenny Hates All The Things at July 25, 2013 09:34 AM (vgyox)

59 Anthony Weiner reveals he had online relationships with three women after he left Congress as nude and lewd photos emerge of their sexcapades So, we can expect two more bimbos to come forward? Yeah!

Posted by: Dah Duke! at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (ECoxZ)

60 Yeah, a computer COULD run a train. But I don't know if you'd want it to-- a human decision-maker (well, one who isn't the engineer equivalent of Anthony Weiner) would be a minimal expense and a less failure-prone option than an automated system.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (MMC8r)

61 Conductor's name? Paul Hazelwood Schettino Rodriguez.

Posted by: soothie at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (uaJ2E)

62 Why do high-speed trains have humans at the controls anyway? Besides unions, I mean. You would prefer Windows Vista? Can you imagine an auto-update while traversing a switching yard?

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (0Rwpi)

63 The driver had to pee. What would you do? Hold it?

Posted by: bonhomme at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (J79eW)

64 cue "Casey Jones"

Posted by: BignJames at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (ZNQKl)

65 48 Not Coach, You can count I like you! Choo Choo! //Joey Plugz

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (+MBHz)

Yes, by all means. We must spend several trillion dollars to link LA and SF so choomed-up quasi-government employees can skirt the CA coastline at 120mph.

Posted by: Jaws at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (4I3Uo)

67 Paul Hazelwood Schettino Rodriguez. So, white Hispanic?

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (0Rwpi)

68 @42 good point. An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at July 25, 2013 09:35 AM (9eDbm)

69 There should be a guy monitoring it all, but limits can be set in what he can do. Like manually crank it up to double-speed around a sharp turn.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 25, 2013 09:36 AM (ZshNr)

70 Can you imagine an auto-update while traversing a switching yard? Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 01:35 PM (0Rwpi) Do Not Turn Off Computer While Updates Install... ...33% Complete...

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:36 AM (GQ8sn)

71 we have light rail here in Jefferson County! Every time I am stopped at a crossing as the train goes by, I can't help noticing that the occupancy seems to be about 1 person per train car.

We're talking a four car train that has four people plus the operator. I am guessing this is not cost-effective.

But light rail!

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 01:34 PM (8sCoq)

Pick up a copy of Gridlock by Randal O'Toole to find out just how badly we are getting screwed by light rail (and even bus service). But, warning, grab some gum before you start to read, to limit the damage from tooth grinding.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:36 AM (54/YX)

72 Mass transit. When a person makes a mistake in a car, chances are he'll kill whoever is in the car and maybe another car he hits. Average 4 people killed let's say, maybe less. Tragic and terrible to be sure. Make a mistake on mass transit and hundreds die. I'm not saying get rid of planes/trains/buses. But libs, stop forcing it down our throats. I'd rather have the global warming.

Posted by: Solo4357 at July 25, 2013 09:36 AM (NBOA5)

73 #59 Walid Shoebat says Huma's mission is to become the Muslim First Lady of New York, which would be one of those things the Muslims delight in.

I assume even these revelations will not cause Weiner to withdraw. (Sorry for the pun, I denounce myself.)

Posted by: Miss Marple at July 25, 2013 09:36 AM (GoIUi)

74 60 Zsasz, Heh folk forget humans program the droids... "Beep bee bep pull my finger!" // Kase E Jonze

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:37 AM (+MBHz)

75 I'm not a railroad engineer but I have seen the movie Unstoppable.

More like "Unwatchable".

They spend most of the movie trying to stop the train, and the final solution that nobody previously thought to try was to drive alongside in a truck and have someone jump on the train?

That's your big finale? Really?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 09:37 AM (SY2Kh)

76 When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle I always see those electronic signs- you know, "SPEED LIMIT 35 YOUR SPEED 70"

don't they have similar on railroads?

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:37 AM (8sCoq)

77 The same reason airliners do. Starting and stopping, plus the occasional Holy Shit moment. They're on a TRACK. Planes aren't on a track. Trains aren't supposed to leave the track. They have to stay on the track. They can't go anywhere that's not on the track. Like a roller coaster. Which, by the way, does not require a pilot to either stop or start.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 09:38 AM (T0NGe)

78 "You would prefer Windows Vista?"

The Blue Track of Death would be a bitch.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at July 25, 2013 09:38 AM (ndlFj)

79 I think the drivers may have survived because there was nothing to slow the engine from skidding along the track on its side; they wouldn't have gotten the massively fast stoppage that could kill a man. But the cars behind them, the ones whose momentum was....
-------------------------

I love Ace like a BIL, but phrases like ".. the drivers.." and "..massively fast stoppage..." need a little attention. THAT sounds like an AP intern.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 09:38 AM (aDwsi)

80 When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle I always see those electronic signs- you know, "SPEED LIMIT 35 YOUR SPEED 70" don't they have similar on railroads? If it's like Pelham123, then there's a control room that monitors everything, including position and speed. They would know instantly who was speeding and could signal the driver or put up the warning lights.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (GQ8sn)

81 Poor Huma. So much political ambition lost because the politician she attached herself too has the sexual maturity of a 12 year old.

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (ELdpj)

82 Automated? Gives BSOD a whole new meaning.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (eHIJJ)

83 When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle I always see those electronic signs- you know, "SPEED LIMIT 35 YOUR SPEED 70" *reminds self never to ride a motorcycle with Jones in CO*

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (0Rwpi)

84 I don't think that is right. That should be 80 KPH (kilometers) which would be about 50 mph. And he took it at 120 kph.

Posted by: Ma Bell at July 25, 2013 01:30 PM (RLdcX)

According to the story, he took the curve at 190km/h, which equals 120mph.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (4df7R)

85 The Article at Fox calls this a "State owned" train line.

Posted by: Vic at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (lZvxr)

86 good point. An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor. Until it decides to sext that cute little cargo train.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (3ms7d)

87 Stupid metric system. I read elsewhere that the train was going 180 kph (120 mph) in a 80 kph (50 mph) zone. And where the hell was Spider Man?!

Posted by: somebody else, not me at July 25, 2013 09:39 AM (29vnO)

88 Here in America, the driver would end up being someone related to Joe Biden.

Posted by: Fritz at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (bWoh5)

89 75 I'm not a railroad engineer but I have seen the movie Unstoppable. More like "Unwatchable". They spend most of the movie trying to stop the train, and the final solution that nobody previously thought to try was to drive alongside in a truck and have someone jump on the train? That's your big finale? Really?
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 01:37 PM (SY2Kh)

They designed a train that requires positive feedback to stop?

Systems engineering fail.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (oY6Yp)

90

Ace, the speed limit there was **50 mph**. The "80" is km/h. So this guy was almost going 3 X the speed limit.

He will be going to jail.

Posted by: dan-O at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (D0bIN)

91 Who wants to bet the driver is some politicians retarded cousin? Poor little guy just can't catch a break.

Posted by: bonhomme at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (J79eW)

92 "76 When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle I always see those electronic signs- you know, "SPEED LIMIT 35 YOUR SPEED 70" don't they have similar on railroads? Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 01:37 PM (8sCoq) " So he can know for certain he was doing twice the speed limit just like you on your motorcycle?

Posted by: NotCoach at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (rsudF)

93 Trains aren't supposed to leave the track. They have to stay on the track. They can't go anywhere that's not on the track.

Like a roller coaster.

Which, by the way, does not require a pilot to either stop or start.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 01:38 PM (T0NGe)

Roller coasters have a pilot as well, he just sits in a stationary control booth, where he can watch the entire circuit.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (54/YX)

94 I love Ace like a BIL, but phrases like ".. the drivers.." and "..massively fast stoppage..." need a little attention.

So I should take "massively large dickage" off my resume?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (8ZskC)

95 I would actually think that a modern train system would already be a human driver overseeing a largely-automated system. I'd be interested to know if this guy was doing this over a bunch of warning buzzers...

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (MMC8r)

96 Just horrible.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (WRnYo)

97 Poor Huma. So much political ambition lost because the politician she attached herself too has the sexual maturity of a 12 year old. So much political ambition and so little cunning. Pushing him to run again while she knew he was still sexting, and putting on a phony photo op for People.

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (0Rwpi)

98 85 Vic, One of the enduring leftovers of the glorious Franco era... Hey at least the trains ran...insert wit here

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (+MBHz)

99 here's another of my classic understatements:

I'm convinced 'light rail' is just a taxpayer-funded 'make work' project to pay back construction companies and transportation unions that donate money to politicians

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (8sCoq)

100 Mike Hammer@79,

What, and mess up a perfectly good, smart military blog?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 09:40 AM (eHIJJ)

101 Here in America, the driver would end up being someone related to Joe Biden. Posted by: Fritz at July 25, 2013 01:40 PM He said you can't drive that thing unless you have a middle east accent

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at July 25, 2013 09:41 AM (MhA4j)

102

How dangerous are trains in general, compared to less-socialist means of transportation?
Posted by: Jenny Hates All The Things at July 25, 2013 01:27 PM (vgyox)
-
Trains aren't dangerous at all. Just cost about 8x more per passenger mile than automobiles, and pollute at a much higher rate.

Very safe, but impossible to make a profit from. This has been true of pretty much every railroad since the early 19th century - railroads provided passenger service as a public-relations ploy and subsidized it out of the profits they earned from shipping freight.

One of the first "High Speed Rail" lines was the Hudson River Railroad built in the 1840s to compete with the passenger boats - very cool little woodburning steam engines with huge spidery driving wheels that could go very fast (almost 50mph average run!) - but it lost money steadily until the Vanderbilts got ahold of it and incorporated it into the NY Central in 1869.

Posted by: Grey Fox at July 25, 2013 09:41 AM (uSqr3)

103 94 Cicero, Depends on the job.....

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:41 AM (+MBHz)

104 So the NY subway, even back when they made Pelham 123, ( in 1974) had sensors ...that showed a train was going too fast.... but Spain? Not so much. Was there recently a labor strike in Spain for railway engineers or something? Hmmm

Posted by: Yip at July 25, 2013 09:42 AM (/jHWN)

105 I'm convinced 'light rail' is just a taxpayer-funded 'make work' project to pay back construction companies and transportation unions that donate money to politicians

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 01:40 PM (8sCoq)

Don't forget land developers. Pick up O'Toole's book.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:42 AM (54/YX)

106 I don't always take the train, but when I do, I wear a crash helmet. I denounce myself.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:42 AM (0Rwpi)

107 Roller coasters have a pilot as well, he just sits in a stationary control booth, where he can watch the entire circuit. (a) Yep. That's the idea. (b) You do know that that highly-trained professional is a pimply-faced teenager, right.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 09:42 AM (T0NGe)

108 Wang Wang Wang de duh Wang Wang Wangggggg!

Posted by: The Guy Who Wangs! at July 25, 2013 09:43 AM (ECoxZ)

109 I attribute this accident to the metric system.

Posted by: Vinman at July 25, 2013 09:43 AM (nEvyg)

110 So, we can expect two more bimbos to come forward? Yeah! Posted by: Dah Duke! at July 25, 2013 01:35 PM (ECoxZ) And Huma will 'stand by him'. She's creepier than he is.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 25, 2013 09:43 AM (X6akg)

111 When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle...
------------------

I've noticed the same when riding my small British motorcycle...., so apparently there is no size/nationality bias in the laser/radar units.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 09:43 AM (aDwsi)

112 And ~~Huma~~ Lady MacBeth will 'stand by him'. She's creepier than he is. Posted by: Tami at July 25, 2013 01:43 PM (X6akg) Fixed.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (GQ8sn)

113 I'll admit that I wondered what that guy who crashed going over 300 miles an hour on a motorcycle looked like afterwards. ------------------ Like Slim Goodbody.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (smZlS)

114

I want a person up front even if automation is in control. Just listening to the computer geeks on this blog is enough to convince me of that.

Posted by: Soona at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (s7bJ6)

115 Ace, speed limit was 50mph, not 80.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (FcR7P)

116 106 George Orwell, They made me wear a crash helmet in law school! //Joey "smarter than you" Biden

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (+MBHz)

117 This crash didn't happen on the Kessel run, did it?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (8ZskC)

118 Speaking of trains and corporate welfare...I'm liking Hell on Wheels, though I'm only about 4 episodes in.

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (ELdpj)

119 What? You guys never heard of Knight Train? If a computer can fly a freaking plane it can fly a train. Use just have to use the Don't Kill Passengers setting in the Preferences menu.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (KXm42)

120 There were actually two drivers on this train.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (4df7R)

121 >>>When I'm riding my large American made motorcycle I always see those electronic signs- you know, "SPEED LIMIT 35 YOUR SPEED 70"
>>>don't they have similar on railroads?

Yeah this does raise some questions about the train systems there. You are right that there must have been some warning for the driver that he was going way too fast.

But the thing is, he wasn't just going a little too fast. He was well over 2 X the speed limit for that turn. Gross negligance.

It makes me wonder it there are other factors in play, like perhaps too much pressure on the train drivers to make their stops on schedule?

Posted by: dan-O at July 25, 2013 09:44 AM (D0bIN)

122 We, uh, need, uh, let's be clear, we need high speed trains.

Posted by: King Barack Obama at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (7ObY1)

123 (b) You do know that that highly-trained professional is a pimply-faced teenager, right.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 01:42 PM (T0NGe)

Yes, but he does start and stop it. He also faces very little in the way of potential cross traffic in a 1/2 mile closed circuit.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (54/YX)

124

O/T: Anna, what do you think of these shoes?

http://tinyurl.com/kgl3ajn

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (zF6Iw)

125 What all these light rail fetishists ignore or can't comprehend is that Americans generally love freedom- including the freedom to DRIVE THEMSELVES wherever they want to go

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (8sCoq)

126 There were actually two drivers on this train. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (4df7R) They were arguing?

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (GQ8sn)

127 So the conductor has more of a say on how fast a train can travel and can tell the engineer to ignore speed limits? I don't get that.

Posted by: YIKES! at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (mETGQ)

128 I'll admit that I wondered what that guy who crashed going over 300 miles an hour on a motorcycle looked like afterwards. ------------------ Like Slim Goodbody. He went home in a Wet/Dry-Vac.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (0Rwpi)

129 Like Slim Goodbody.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (smZlS)

But with more blood and less leotard.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (4df7R)

130 This crash didn't happen on the Kessel run, did it? Return trip. Chewy was driving.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:45 AM (3ms7d)

131 O/T: Anna, what do you think of these shoes? http://tinyurl.com/kgl3ajn Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 25, 2013 01:45 PM (zF6Iw) *wonders what the rest of the outfit would look like to match*

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (GQ8sn)

132 and I was kidding about doing 70 in a 35

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (8sCoq)

133 An important distinction for roller coasters, the wheels are captive on the tracks.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (aDwsi)

134 can't find any labor issues... maybe the throttle got stuck on ludicrous speed...

Posted by: Yip at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (/jHWN)

135 Driver/conductor should fucking hang. Asshole previously posted pics of the trains speedometer going 125. ps - ace, Daily Mail has it as an 50 mph zone that they were in.

Posted by: RWC at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (fWAjv)

136 I attribute this accident to the metric system.

Posted by: Vinman at July 25, 2013 01:43 PM (nEvyg)

Air Canada Gimli Glider

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (54/YX)

137 Note to self- don't ride mass transit in Spain during siesta time.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (SY2Kh)

138

41 Trains have drivers?

What the hell is this, 1880? Has nobody heard of those fancy adding machines?

Nice fancy adding machine you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Posted by: Train Drivers' Union at July 25, 2013 09:46 AM (xGZ+b)

139 It makes me wonder it there are other factors in play, like perhaps too much pressure on the train drivers to make their stops on schedule?

In Spain? That's a joke, right?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (8ZskC)

140 At some point the engineers are going to stop putting pilot seats in these things.

Posted by: Jean at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (CMlD4)

141 What all these light rail fetishists ignore or can't comprehend is that Americans generally love freedom- including the freedom to DRIVE THEMSELVES wherever they want to go Don't know if it's a forced meme, but have you noticed a number of stories lately about how younger people have a diminished interest in cars and driving? Don't want to drive, in fact.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (0Rwpi)

142 t makes me wonder it there are other factors in play, like perhaps too much pressure on the train drivers to make their stops on schedule? It happened in Japan.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (GQ8sn)

143 There were actually two drivers on this train. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (4df7R) They were arguing? Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 01:45 PM (GQ8sn) Remember were talking Europe here. They were probably on strike.

Posted by: YIKES! at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (mETGQ)

144 It makes me wonder it there are other factors in play, like perhaps too much pressure on the train drivers to make their stops on schedule?

Posted by: dan-O at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (D0bIN)

If this train was running so far behind that they had to go more than double the speed limit to make it to the next stop on time (or close to), then I'd say there has to be some serious questions asked about what the hell would cause such a delay and how to ameliorate it.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (4df7R)

145 and I was kidding about doing 70 in a 35
Posted by: Jones in CO
-------

Yeah..., me too. I was just repeating a story told to me by a stranger in a bar.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (aDwsi)

146 125 Jones in CO, Eh "maybe" the youngsters are a lot less road warrorish tham I was at their age... I think Ogabe's war on the US Dollar is working.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (+MBHz)

147 There were actually two drivers on this train. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (4df7R) They were arguing? So they were married?

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:47 AM (3ms7d)

148 God be with the victims and their families.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (GTpeb)

149

"Poor Huma. So much political ambition lost because the politician she attached herself too has the sexual maturity of a 12 year old."

Poor Huma? Feh.

She's learned from her gag-inducing mentor HRC that she can ride this notoriety and predictable MSM sympathy as far as Mr. Danger can get her, jettison him in every real sense, and then shimmy her ass into the Senate, Foggy Bottom, and beyond.

This little "problem" they're having is not a problem. It's a strategy. And it's going to work - again.

Posted by: Jaws at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (4I3Uo)

150 Is there a chance the track could bend? Not a chance my Spanish friend.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (7ObY1)

151 This engineer was fairly new. He'd just come to the rail service after 10 years as a pilot for Asiana Airlines.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (MMC8r)

152 @71 Another problem with light rail which no one discusses is that they travel in two directions. That is, lines which go to the suburbs to downtown, inevitably wind up bringing the "yoots" to the burbs with the inevitable increase in crime. As you might imagine however, such statistics are quite "hush-hush."

Posted by: RS at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (YAGV/)

153 What all these light rail fetishists ignore or can't comprehend is that Americans generally love freedom- including the freedom to DRIVE THEMSELVES wherever they want to go

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 01:45 PM (8sCoq)

That is the very reason they are pushing rail - to take that away, along with your right to live where you want.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (54/YX)

154 He had one job, ONE JOB: move the little speed lever up and down.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (FcR7P)

155 Remember were talking Europe here.
They were probably on strike.

Posted by: YIKES! at July 25, 2013 01:47 PM (mETGQ)

I'm going with drunk.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (4df7R)

156 Huma was entering the text in order to keep Danger's hands free.

IOW, guilty as Carlos.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 09:48 AM (eHIJJ)

157 But with more blood and less leotard. And less Jew-fro.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (MMC8r)

158 State owned and Spain is a of the Detroit of countries.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (XUKZU)

159 This engineer was fairly new. He'd just come to the rail service after 10 years as a pilot for Asiana Airlines.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 01:48 PM (MMC8r)

I guess he was trying to fly the train.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (DrWcr)

160 If this train was running so far behind that they had to go more than double the speed limit to make it to the next stop on time (or close to), then I'd say there has to be some serious questions asked about what the hell would cause such a delay and how to ameliorate it. Fapping

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (3ms7d)

161 139 Cicero, Heh a funny one whether intentional or not...they took the siesta to Mexopolis not the other way around.

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (+MBHz)

162 There are gizmos on these modern trains that are supposed to hit the brakes when they cross certain points on the tracks going over a certain speed. (They'll also hit the brakes if the train runs a red signal.) Apparently they didn't have one on this train and this track, which surprises me considering it's a very new high-speed train and a new section of track.

Posted by: Moose4 at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (W15Fy)

163 ace - you put in 'MPH' when the article has 'KPH.'

Posted by: RWC at July 25, 2013 09:49 AM (fWAjv)

164 Driver took it at 190 klicks. Turn was rated for 80 klicks. It's not impossible. He used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home, they're not much slower than 190 klicks.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (MhA4j)

165 "126 There were actually two drivers on this train. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at July 25, 2013 01:44 PM (4df7R) They were arguing? Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 01:45 PM (GQ8sn)" Train driver 1: Yes it will do 200kmph! Train driver 2: No it won't! The speedometer lies! I'll show you!

Posted by: NotCoach at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (rsudF)

166 " Poor Huma? Feh." It was mock pity. She can get bent.

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (ELdpj)

167 *Until it decides to sext that cute little cargo train. Watch my show real closely again and you'll know why I make those O faces,

Posted by: Thomas the Tank Engine at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (X866z)

168 In Spain? That's a joke, right? But seriously -- why does Spain need high-speed anything? It's freaking Spain.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (KXm42)

169 You do know that that highly-trained professional is a pimply-faced teenager, right.

That teenager probably takes his job more seriously than the genetic reject who ran this curve at 140% the recommended speed.

Posted by: bonhomme at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (2hTlI)

170 like perhaps too much pressure on the train drivers to make their stops on schedule? Have you ever seen a gov't worker rush? Try to imagine a mailman busting thru the speed limit just to deliver your mail.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (FcR7P)

171

79 I love Ace like a BIL, but phrases like ".. the drivers.." and "..massively fast stoppage..." need a little attention. THAT sounds like an AP intern

But "high rate of speed" is A-OK?

(hint: speed is rate of travel. rate of speed would be acceleration)

Posted by: Anachronda at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (FzhYM)

172

Posted by: AmishDude at July 25, 2013 01:38 PM (T0NGe)

The Seattle Monorail has 2 stops, that's it.

And each train runs on a separate track.

Nevertheless they have drivers.

And they managed to crash into each other once (going around a curve, they both tilted together and hit.)

I'd note that there are driverless metro systems somewhere IIRC (it might even be Spain) I think the concern is when you're dealing with a system that has to cross streets, you want someone there to pull the plug as needed in case of an unexpected situation.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (GaqMa)

173 He'd just come to the rail service after 10 years as a pilot for Asiana Airlines. Mr. Fry Off Trak.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (0Rwpi)

174 Don't know if it's a forced meme, but have you noticed a number of stories lately about how younger people have a diminished interest in cars and driving? Don't want to drive, in fact.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 01:47 PM (0Rwpi)

Which is all mule muffins, they want to drive just like every other generation of Americans, however, with high unemployment, high gas prices, and sky high student loan bills, they can't afford to drive.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (kXoT0)

175 155 T-bird, The Spaniards get SHIRTS! You're on notice EU!

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:50 AM (+MBHz)

176 I attribute this accident to the metric system.
Posted by: Vinman at July 25, 2013 01:43 PM (nEvyg)
-
Air Canada Gimli Glider Posted by: Vashta Nerada
---------

$125 million Mars Climate Orbiter spacecraft

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 09:51 AM (aDwsi)

177

So the conductor has more of a say on how fast a train can travel and can tell the engineer to ignore speed limits?
I don't get that.

At least in the US, the conductor is the train's commander (as a matter of fact, some held the title "captain" at least in the early days), so he tells the driver how fast to go, etc. I think that Ace is getting "driver/engineer" and "conductor" mixed up a bit, though. These days, I am not sure that the old distinctions between the two jobs even exists in the same way - we don't even use cabooses any more.

Posted by: Grey Fox at July 25, 2013 09:51 AM (uSqr3)

178 Another problem with light rail which no one discusses is that they travel in two directions. That is, lines which go to the suburbs to downtown, inevitably wind up bringing the "yoots" to the burbs with the inevitable increase in crime. As you might imagine however, such statistics are quite "hush-hush." Same with bus service.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 25, 2013 09:51 AM (3ms7d)

179 What all these light rail fetishists ignore or can't comprehend is that Americans generally love freedom- including the freedom to DRIVE THEMSELVES wherever they want to go

That's *why* they're fetishists. They're all frustrated "Sims" players who don't understand why they can't just click on their neighbors and make them do what they know is right.

Posted by: Ian S. at July 25, 2013 09:52 AM (B/VB5)

180 She's learned from her gag-inducing mentor HRC that she can ride this notoriety and predictable MSM sympathy as far as Mr. Danger can get her, jettison him in every real sense, and then shimmy her ass into the Senate, Foggy Bottom, and beyond. This.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:52 AM (0Rwpi)

181 In the Way Guy was blocking the speedometer.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 25, 2013 09:52 AM (ZshNr)

182 >>>68 @42 good point. An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor.<<<
.
There was supposed to be a safety device that would not allow these speeds in a curve. May have been going too fast for it to work in time.

Posted by: Javems at July 25, 2013 09:52 AM (nTgAI)

183 You do know that that highly-trained professional is a pimply-faced teenager, right. I'm guessing a career civil servant, twenty-five years on the job so far, with a callus on his index finger from pushing a single button.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 09:52 AM (FcR7P)

184 All I know is that when one of those babies hits 88 miles per hour, you are going to see some serious shit.

Posted by: Doc Brown at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (8ZskC)

185 An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor.
Check out the exhaust unit on that, Dave.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (BQ10H)

186 Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my train. Prepare to die.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (SY2Kh)

187 And I'll take the over on they were drunk MWR.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (KXm42)

188 I really REALLY need to start reading the comments first.

Posted by: RWC at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (fWAjv)

189 however, with high unemployment, high gas prices, and sky high student loan bills, they can't afford to drive. Which suits the high-speed rail evangelists just fine.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (0Rwpi)

190 Planes seem safer and safer to me

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (9Xc5j)

191 12 Yes, that was the cause. And the solution the union proposed was to hire another guy to sit in the locomotive and watch the driver

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (albkL)

192 Seems reasonable to me.

Posted by: Carlos Danger at July 25, 2013 09:53 AM (kQ0pI)

193 "58 Just read the article and the line "firefighters came off of strike" caught my eye. Eeeek. Glad they did the right thing and stopped their strike for now but geeze, is there ever a time when some public employee union in Europe isn't on strike?"

Jenny, you should'a been around in the 60's and 70's. It was worse. The UK in particular, and Europe in general was always paralyzed by one strike or another.

Posted by: West at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (1Rgee)

194 Planes seem safer and safer to me Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 01:53 PM (9Xc5j) Yes, they are!

Posted by: Capt. Ho Lee Fuk at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (GQ8sn)

195 >Don't know if it's a forced meme, but have you noticed a number of stories lately about how younger people have a diminished interest in cars and driving? Don't want to drive, in fact.

I wonder why that is... when I got my DL at age 16 I considered it the ultimate freedom

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (8sCoq)

196 Scene:

COMES IN--NOTHING TO SAY, FOR NO TARGET IN SIGHT--BREATHES FIRE IN GENERAL DISGUST---EXEUNT STAGE RIGHT, ORNERY

Posted by: "Tales of the Red Dragon" at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (FDR2g)

197 If the investigation goes anything like Issa's investigations, the conductor has nothing to worry about.

Posted by: soothie at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (qpM85)

198 That is, lines which go to the suburbs to downtown, inevitably wind up bringing the "yoots" to the burbs with the inevitable increase in crime.

Which is why the Baltimore-area light rail was never completed beyond the initial north-south run. White liberal voters turned out not to like it when they got rape-raped in a mall parking garage by the cast of "The Wire".

Posted by: Ian S. at July 25, 2013 09:54 AM (B/VB5)

199

People talking about train automation need to keep in mind that these are trains that are running on legacy systems that predate computers by a lot. Trains have been around in Europe for a long time. Yes, they are upgraded all the time, and undoubtedly computers and automation play a much more important part than they used to, but these are still legacy systems, maintained either by the government, or by heavily-government-regulated business. You can't expect state of the art for such a massive system.

If a train system was built from scratch *today*, then it could *probably* be fully automated. But that isn't the case here.

Posted by: dan-O at July 25, 2013 09:55 AM (D0bIN)

200 So the NY subway, even back when they made Pelham 123, ( in 1974) had sensors ...that showed a train was going too fast.... but Spain? Not so much. Was there recently a labor strike in Spain for railway engineers or something? Hmmm

***

I'm thinking Marx is his co-pilot.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 25, 2013 09:55 AM (XUKZU)

201

I'll admit that I wondered what that guy who crashed going over 300 miles an hour on a motorcycle looked like afterwards.

Go out and look under your car.

See that little greasy spot?

Still can't believe that motorcycle guy was from the bustling metropolis of Wimauma. And that I hadn't met him. That place was so small, when you reached the city limit, the sign said "Welcome to Wimauma." It said the same thing on the back side.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 25, 2013 09:55 AM (0HooB)

202 Say hello to my little fren.

Posted by: Carlos Danger at July 25, 2013 09:55 AM (kQ0pI)

203

Conductors take tickets

Porters carry bags

Drivers manage motor vehicles

Engineers drive trains

Posted by: The Drill SGT at July 25, 2013 09:55 AM (M6nb5)

204 An important distinction for roller coasters, the wheels are captive on the tracks.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 01:46 PM (aDwsi)

------------------------------------------

Saw a movie about that. Shit still happens.

Posted by: Soona at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (s7bJ6)

205 Â“I donÂ’t believe I had any more than three*,Â” he said when asked at a press conference how many relationships since his resignation were sexual in nature.

*Which means "more than three, but so many I do not recall." Upstanding dood. The only person I feel sorry for is his son. What a legacy he is leaving for him to read about someday.

Sort of like asking a drunk at a DUI how many drinks have they consumed? The answer is always "two."

Also, Huma seems Elvira-ish to me. What a loyal wife. pfft

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Redneck Queen at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (baL2B)

206 I wonder why that is... when I got my DL at age 16 I considered it the ultimate freedom

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 01:54 PM (8sCoq)

Too expensive. Too expensive to buy a car. Too expensive to register and maintain a car. Too expensive to insure a car. Too expensive to put gas in a car.

If young people could find jobs it would be different.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (4df7R)

207 Definitely $3.50/gal. puts the kybosh on teen driving. No doubt about it.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (KXm42)

208 Several years ago I looked into the option of taking the train from Shitcago to New Orleans vs flying. Besides taking 4 times as long, the ticket was MORE expensive than airfare. Factor in the fact that teh gubmint massively subsidizes passenger trains, and there is only one one conclusion:

Without getting Rebecca De Mornay as part of the deal, forget the train.

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (ccXZP)

209 I'm sticking to my 'sleeping off the ganja' theory.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 25, 2013 09:56 AM (54/YX)

210 Yes, that was the cause. And the solution the union proposed was to hire another guy to sit in the locomotive and watch the driver

***

But who will watch the watchers?

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (XUKZU)

211 64 cue "Casey Jones" --- Drivin' that train High on cocaine Casey Jones you better Watch your speed Trouble ahead Trouble behind And you know that notion Just crossed my mind I swear, this is one of only about three Grateful Dead songs I can stand...

Posted by: Braond In Baton Rouge at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (/Crba)

212 Until it decides to sext that cute little cargo train.
She's a whore, Dave. Too much caboose action.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (BQ10H)

213 Without getting Rebecca De Mornay as part of the deal, forget the train. Don't you mean a young Katherine Heigl?

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (GQ8sn)

214 But seriously -- why does Spain need high-speed anything? It's freaking Spain.

Have they managed to keep a schedule yet? My buddy and I took some trains in Spain and they almost seemed to be coming and going at random.

Posted by: bonhomme at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (9PrpA)

215 Anthony Weiner was a train engineer for a while, but got fired because every time he came to a tunnel, he'd enter it, back out, and repeat for 10 minutes.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 09:57 AM (MMC8r)

216 200 Ian S, In a fit of kamikaze Impulsiveness I once navigated the rail system down to DC from Aberdeen..... I considered it upon reflection more dangerous than when I went Kayaking on the Chesapeake in the Tropical Depression that wrecked Havre De Grace's boardwalk while we were there.... FWIW

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 09:58 AM (+MBHz)

217 187 An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor.
Check out the exhaust unit on that, Dave.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at July 25, 2013 01:53 PM (BQ10H)

Let us all hope he was not taking photos of his privates.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Redneck Queen at July 25, 2013 09:58 AM (baL2B)

218 The stereotype of German trains being on time is 100% true.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 25, 2013 09:58 AM (ZshNr)

219 Planes seem safer and safer to me Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 01:53 PM (9Xc5j) Yes, they are! Posted by: Capt. Ho Lee Fuk at July 25, 2013 01:54 PM (GQ8sn) I was referring to planes with pilots with straight eyes

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 09:58 AM (9Xc5j)

220 Anthony Weiner was a train engineer for a while, but got fired because every time he came to a tunnel, he'd enter it, back out, and repeat for 10 minutes. Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 01:57 PM (MMC8r) Reading the Horde beats working.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 09:58 AM (GQ8sn)

221 > Definitely $3.50/gal. puts the kybosh on teen driving.

Oh, I'm not complaining! The fewer immature nitwits on the road, the safer I am.

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (8sCoq)

222 Grey Fox: "...we don't even use cabooses any more."

Of course we do, silly.

Posted by: J-Lo at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (eHIJJ)

223 " repeat for 10 minutes." You mean 30 seconds.

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (ELdpj)

224 Conductors take tickets Porters carry bags Drivers manage motor vehicles Engineers drive trains NY Congressmen tweet junk.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (0Rwpi)

225 According to the article, the train was built only 5 years ago. Also:

Investigators were trying to urgently establish why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to keep speed within permitted limits had not worked.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (SY2Kh)

226 Definitely $3.50/gal. puts the kybosh on teen driving. It's the insurance.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 09:59 AM (FcR7P)

227 Investigators were trying to urgently establish why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to keep speed within permitted limits had not worked. I'll take government quality control workers for $200, Alex.

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (GQ8sn)

228 >I swear, this is one of only about three Grateful Dead songs I can stand...

that's 3 more than me

Posted by: Jones in CO at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (8sCoq)

229 You try randing a jet airplane with your eyes three quarters closed.

Posted by: Captin Wi Tu Low at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (kQ0pI)

230 Huma stays with Weiner out of love. Of power.

Posted by: zsasz at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (MMC8r)

231 Another problem with light rail which no one discusses is that they travel in two directions. That is, lines which go to the suburbs to downtown, inevitably wind up bringing the "yoots" to the burbs with the inevitable increase in crime. As you might imagine however, such statistics are quite "hush-hush." >>

Did you know that Minneapolis light rail runs out to the Mall of America?

<<Mall of America officials released a statement saying that around 4:20 p.m. 50 juveniles caused a large disturbance in the north food court.

Witnesses said the fights started after there were reports that rappers LilÂ’ Wayne and Drake were visiting the Mall. Police, however, did not comment on these rumors.>>

http://tinyurl.com/chl5we3

Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (tf9Ne)

232 Definitely $3.50/gal. puts the kybosh on teen driving.

It's the insurance.

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (FcR7P)

And you can thank Cash for Clunkers for the dearth of inexpensive used cars.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 10:00 AM (4df7R)

233 Investigators were trying to urgently establish
why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to
keep speed within permitted limits had not worked.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (SY2Kh)

That word, failsafe. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (54/YX)

234
Investigators were trying to urgently establish
why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to
keep speed within permitted limits had not worked.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (SY2Kh)

They need to talk to the Quebec train peoples. Lots of weird "unexplained" derailings and stuff.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Train detective at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (baL2B)

235 Francisco Jose Garzon, one of the drivers on the train which crashed, leaving up to 141 people injured including one Briton, is reported to have posted a picture on the site of a train speedometer at 125mph last year.

Posted by: UWP at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (r98SZ)

236

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 25, 2013 01:56 PM (ccXZP)

If you accept Mass transit in general, there's a zone for which trains make sense. For example, the train from St. Louis to Chicago takes about as long as driving and is cheaper than flying (and I get to do other things during the ride).

Much past that tough and the time/cost ratio starts to change pretty substantially.

Posted by: tsrblke at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (GaqMa)

237 I'm going Sabotage By A Religion of Peacer,Alex.

Posted by: Lauren at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (ELdpj)

238 221 NGU, We're hiring. //ntsb

Posted by: Miguel Ambivalence at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (+MBHz)

239 Investigators were trying to urgently establish why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to keep speed within permitted limits had not worked. Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (SY2Kh) Failsafe huh? I do not think it means what they think it means.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (X6akg)

240 It's 80 KPH Ace brother. That's about 50MPH. He is alleged to have been traveling at 190 KPH, which is about 118 MPH

Posted by: Marcus at July 25, 2013 10:01 AM (GGCsk)

241 RWC: "I really REALLY need to start reading the comments first."

And then, the next thing you know, you'll start reading the post. All addictions start innocently enough.

Don't do it.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 25, 2013 10:02 AM (eHIJJ)

242

Investigators were trying to urgently establish
why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to keep speed within permitted limits had not worked.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (SY2Kh)

Which is why I say ixnay on the full-automation-ay.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at July 25, 2013 10:02 AM (4df7R)

243 Choo choo?

Posted by: Slow Train Biden at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (kQ0pI)

244 So much political ambition and so little cunning. Pushing him to run again while she knew he was still sexting, and putting on a phony photo op for People.

Posted by: George Orwell crosseyed and painless at July 25, 2013 01:40 PM (0Rwpi)

In fairness to Huma, the only 'open' Dem spot Weiner could run for was Mayor. He couldn't run the risk that whoever wins this year would be competent, or at least not a f'n trainwreck ala Dinkins and get shut out for the next 8 years. Schumer isn't going anywhere, and the junior senator(whatever her name is) is even less likely to leave. He ain't running for the House of Reps again, and he can't step back into a minor city function, nor does he have any particular viable skill to take on an actual job. So it was mayor this year or bust.

Posted by: Joe at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (7pOq5)

245 Investigators were trying to urgently establish why the train was going so fast and why failsafe security devices to keep speed within permitted limits had not worked. The nice thing is, YOU (EU taxpayers) pay for the investigation, the findings, the revamped 'training' and control systems, the forced retirements with full pay, the damages, everything!

Posted by: t-bird at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (FcR7P)

246 Which is why the Baltimore-area light rail was never completed beyond the initial north-south run. White liberal voters turned out not to like it when they got rape-raped in a mall parking garage by the cast of "The Wire". Here north of Baltimore we call it the rob and ride. Baltimore county had to build a police station at the Lutherville stop.

Posted by: Timon at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (3tFLC)

247 237 Francisco Jose Garzon, one of the drivers on the train which crashed, leaving up to 141 people injured including one Briton, is reported to have posted a picture on the site of a train speedometer at 125mph last year. --- "Francisco Jose Garzon" is apparently Spanish for "Francesco Schettino".

Posted by: Braond In Baton Rouge at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (/Crba)

248 Don't know if it's a forced meme, but have you
noticed a number of stories lately about how younger people have a
diminished interest in cars and driving?
------------

Exihibit A - A 1965 Pontiac GTO, observed with lust by most teenagers.

Exhibit B - A 2013 Toyota Prius, not noticed by anyone.

Question in 1965 - How much horsepower?

Question in 2013 - Can it park itself?

Comment in 1965 - "I'm considering a different cam."

Comment in 2013 - "I'd like a back-up cam."

No wonder they aren't interested. The nanny state has stripped the fun/interest out of automobiles.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 10:03 AM (aDwsi)

249 Jose Werspeedin

Posted by: garrett at July 25, 2013 10:04 AM (1t9Zx)

250 Nood

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 25, 2013 10:04 AM (X6akg)

251 If one more person says "..train driver..", I'm going to go on a curmudgeonly rant.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 25, 2013 10:04 AM (aDwsi)

252 At least in the US, the conductor is the train's commander (as a matter of fact, some held the title "captain" at least in the early days), so he tells the driver how fast to go, etc. I think that Ace is getting "driver/engineer" and "conductor" mixed up a bit, though. These days, I am not sure that the old distinctions between the two jobs even exists in the same way - we don't even use cabooses any more.

Posted by: Grey Fox at July 25, 2013 01:51 PM (uSqr3)

------------------------------------------------

Please! Everyone! Stop with the driver shit. Railroad locomotives do NOT have steering wheels. In the US they're called locomotive engineers or in the case of semi-automated systems, operators. One can't fucking drive a locomotive.

Posted by: Soona at July 25, 2013 10:04 AM (s7bJ6)

253 This was the first iteration of the Running of the Trains. Too soon???

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:04 AM (albkL)

254 Juan A. Slowdownabit

Posted by: garrett at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (1t9Zx)

255 Conjunction Junction what's your function?

Posted by: Slow Train Biden at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (kQ0pI)

256 Israeli official: Turkey looking to humiliate Israel, not reconcile with it By HERB KEINON07/25/2013 20:30 As Turkish deputy PM blames Israel for stalemate in reconciliation talks, Israeli official says Netanyahu did what the Americans expected him to do, and from Jerusalem's standpoint episode should now be over. The comments came after Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told the Turkish media that the reason for the deadlock in compensation talks with Israel over the Mavi Marmara incident was that Jerusalem was not willing to admit that the compensation payment was the result of a wrongful act. On March 22, just as US President Barack Obama was leaving Israel after his visit and at his urging, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu called Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and offered an apology for any operational errors that might have led to the death of nine Turkish activists on the Mavi Marmara ship trying to break the blockade of Gaza in 2010 And once again obama is trying to fuck Israel

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (9Xc5j)

257 Francisco Jose Garzon, one of the drivers on the train which crashed, leaving up to 141 people injured including one Briton, is reported to have posted a picture on the site of a train speedometer at 125mph last year.

It's very well possible that the speed limit was 125mph or more for the stretch he was on at the time.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (SY2Kh)

258

An automated engine can be trusted to go at the recommended speed around turns, and distractions would be a non-factor.

---------

You still want a crew member, though. You want to have at least one "live" authority-type on the train in case one of the passengers starts to cause problems. Either the crew member can step in as the authority figure to reprimand the trouble-maker, or the crew member can call the cops to deal with them.

I ride the Gold Line in LA County occasionally, and everything is as automated as they can make it. You buy a ticket from an automated machine, board the train without anyone to check your ticket, and the only crew member is the driver who sits at the front presumably to monitor the track and make sure that no one tries to cause trouble while the train is running.

However, the lack of someone to check your tickets doesn't mean that they're clueless about how people will abuse that. The County Sheriff's Department routinely sends deputies down to stand at the platform exits and check the tickets of those who are leaving the train...

Posted by: junior at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (UWFpX)

259 Here north of Baltimore we call it the rob and ride. Baltimore county had to build a police station at the Lutherville stop. --- The version in Atlanta, MARTA, is reputed to stand for "Moving Assholes Rapidly Through Atlanta", amongst other versions.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at July 25, 2013 10:05 AM (/Crba)

260 "Francisco Jose Garzon" is apparently Spanish for "Francesco Schettino".

***

Which is Greek for 'Up Shit Creek."

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 25, 2013 10:06 AM (XUKZU)

261

'Once upon a time

there was an engineer

drove a locomotive

both far and near...'

Posted by: Bobby Weir at July 25, 2013 10:06 AM (1t9Zx)

262 The bizarre part? Saw a CNN graphic today showing Carlos Danger in second place in a four candidate race in NY. Still, he's nine points behind the front runner, so he's probably not gonna sext from Gracie Mansion.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 10:06 AM (0Rwpi)

263 And once again obama is trying to fuck Israel --- So, it's a day ending in "Y" after all?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at July 25, 2013 10:07 AM (/Crba)

264 Juan Tugetoff

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:07 AM (albkL)

265 The primary is not until 9/10, so there is plenty of time to turn it around.

Posted by: The Guy Who Wangs! at July 25, 2013 10:07 AM (ECoxZ)

266 The version in Atlanta, MARTA, is reputed to stand for "Moving Assholes Rapidly Through Atlanta", amongst other versions. In Toronto, we had the TTC, the Toronto Transit Commission. Or, as we called it, "Take The Car".

Posted by: EC at July 25, 2013 10:07 AM (GQ8sn)

267 I wager the driver was a little rat-faced dude named Gonzalez.

Posted by: Joey Biden at July 25, 2013 10:07 AM (UzPAd)

268 If one more person says "..train driver..", I'm going to go on a curmudgeonly rant. Fine. Train person then.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 10:08 AM (KXm42)

269 262 "Francisco Jose Garzon" is apparently Spanish for "Francesco Schettino". *** Which is Greek for 'Up Shit Creek." --- Did anyone say where Shit Creek was? Perhaps near Mianus, CT?

Posted by: Bawney Fwank at July 25, 2013 10:08 AM (/Crba)

270 The train in Spain lies mostly on the plain.

Posted by: Slow Train Biden at July 25, 2013 10:08 AM (kQ0pI)

271 Here north of Baltimore we call it the rob and ride. Baltimore county had to build a police station at the Lutherville stop.

*nod*. When I first got up here I briefly considered taking it to BWI, because that's a fairly annoying drive from anywhere north of 695. Then I found out 1) unless it's rush hour, it's faster to drive and 2) "rob and ride".

Posted by: Ian S. at July 25, 2013 10:09 AM (B/VB5)

272 Posted by: tsrblke at July 25, 2013 02:01 PM (GaqMa)

Fair enough, and I did take the train from the burbs to downtown Chicago for a few months. As long as you caught the expresses, it wasn't bad time wise and cost wise vs. driving, especially when you include the parking fees.

I'm still not a fan in general.

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 25, 2013 10:09 AM (ccXZP)

273

In Britain they are called drivers, though, and we are discussing a European train. The term driver was applied to locomotive engineers before it did to automobiles. Also, the word "driver" just means someone who makes it go - there is nothing in the etymology to suggest that steering is a vital component.

Posted by: Grey Fox at July 25, 2013 10:09 AM (uSqr3)

274 I suspect George Zimmerman was somehow involved

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:09 AM (albkL)

275 I'm listening to Geraldo and they are still trying to blame Detroit's downfall on rich people leaving the city. He is clueless. He's also blaming speculators. Again, he's clueless.

Posted by: The Guy Who Wangs! at July 25, 2013 10:10 AM (ECoxZ)

276 They keep saying it took a sharp turn, it's a goddamn train. The turns are built in, I'm shocked the conductor even has power over how fast it goes.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 25, 2013 10:11 AM (b9K4P)

277 This is the EXACT design of "high speed train" that California is currently building from SF to LA and spending countless billions on. I think a side effect of this Spanish disaster is further erosion of any lingering support for high-speed rail in California. It was promoted as "safer than flying," but as the video shows, it doesn't seem to be safer than flying at all. Just because you're on the ground doesn't mean you can't crash. And as with cars, the speed you're going when you crash is the primary factor in the likelihood of fatality. This Spanish train was only going 120mph at the time of the crash, but that's the slow part of the route -- it goes up to 180mph (or faster -- not sure) on the straightaways. I've taken these high speed trains in Europe several times and to be frank I'm just as nervous on them as I am on an airplane (i.e. pretty nervous). Once while rocketing through the French countryside we whizzed past two Middle-Eastern looking guys standing near the track just observing the train. They were right next to an area where the fence along the track has fallen over, so there was nothing stopping anyone from reaching the track. Right next to them was a pile of huge concrete chunks from a construction project. I thought to myself, "Nothing is stopping those guys from dragging a couple of those concrete chunks and putting them on the tracks right here at the beginning of a curve. Then they could just sit back and watch the carnage as the train's momentum does the rest." A very easy way to commit an act of terror -- no bomb required. Just a timetable, a pair of wire snippers, and a strong back. That's the downside of high speed trains no one wants to mention.

Posted by: zombie at July 25, 2013 10:11 AM (+cx5n)

278 Those people on Hardcore Pawn are responsible for the Utopia that is Detroit.

Posted by: Slow Train Biden at July 25, 2013 10:12 AM (kQ0pI)

279 I. Carumba

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:12 AM (albkL)

280 270 If one more person says "..train driver..", I'm going to go on a curmudgeonly rant.

Fine. Train person then.

Posted by: eleven at July 25, 2013 02:08 PM (KXm42)

Choo-choo man with stripy hat?

Posted by: Joey Biden's scrambled egg at July 25, 2013 10:13 AM (baL2B)

281 Palestinian leadership lauds infamous terrorist as peace talks loom with Israel Just as hopes emerge for new Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, the official Facebook page of Palestinian President Mahmoud AbbasÂ’ Fatah political party is lauding a convicted terrorist for killing 61 Â“ZionistsÂ” in a series of attacks. The two sides' perceptions of Abdallah Barghouti, the bomb-making mastermind behind the infamous 2001 Sbarro attack and at least four other suicide bombings, is as good a measure as any for how far apart they are. Arrested in 2003, Barghouti is serving 67 life terms in solitary confinement in an Israeli prison. But to the party that rules the West Bank, Barghouti is a hero. "The brave prisoner, Abdallah Barghouti, who has the longest [prison] sentence in the history of the Palestinian cause," reads the Facebook page, first reported on by Palestinian Media Watch. Through its social media presence, Fatah glorifies five of the suicide bombings Barghouti organized between 2000 and 2003, including the attack at a Sbarro restaurant in Jerusalem that killed 15 people on Aug. 9, 2001. Â“This just underscores the questionable commitment to genuine peace by Palestinian organizations that some say are ready for peace.Â” - James Phillips, Heritage Foundation The bombings were Â“self-sacrificing activityÂ” and Â“martyrdom-seeking operations,Â” according to the Facebook page. Animals

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 25, 2013 10:13 AM (9Xc5j)

282 If you're not a racist before you watch Hardcore Pawn you will be after

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:14 AM (albkL)

283 The train driver was probably either a white Hispanic or a creepy ass cracker.

Posted by: Slow Train Biden at July 25, 2013 10:14 AM (kQ0pI)

284 Engineer I. Diosmio

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:14 AM (albkL)

285

201 People talking about train automation need to keep in mind that these are trains that are running on legacy systems that predate computers by a lot.

I've got some books from the '40s (if I look in the right boxes in my storage shed) that discuss automated systems that had been deployed *then* to deal with things like making certain trains don't get too close to each other or run red lights. I don't recall anything about enforcing speed limits, though...

Posted by: Anachronda at July 25, 2013 10:15 AM (IrbU4)

286

270 Fine. Train person then.

"son" is sexist. it needs to be "train perchild".

Posted by: Anachronda at July 25, 2013 10:16 AM (IrbU4)

287 275 Please! Everyone! Stop with the driver shit. Railroad locomotives do NOT have steering wheels. In the US they're called locomotive engineers or in the case of semi-automated systems, operators. One can't fucking drive a locomotive In Britain they are called drivers, though, and we are discussing a European train. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4iHLOt2DZU

Posted by: rickl at July 25, 2013 10:17 AM (zoehZ)

288 Real-life Mario Train

Posted by: DAve at July 25, 2013 10:17 AM (albkL)

289 Watching the video the mechanics of the incident are fairly obvious. And a classic example of why you simply must slow a train either from the back, or along it's entire length equally.

Yes, the train entered the turn too fast.

As the engine went around the turn it slowed. The cars behind did not slow as fast. So you end up with a situation where the cars further back are effectively 'pushing' (trying to pass, really) the cars ahead of them.

The strong push from behind the front end of car immediately behind the engines to rise up and it's front trucks left the tracks, bringing the rest of the train with it.

Posted by: ThomasD at July 25, 2013 10:18 AM (a1gWX)

290 I really REALLY need to start reading the comments first.

Posted by: RWC at July 25, 2013 01:53 PM (fWAjv)

Ace doesn't. Why should you?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 25, 2013 10:19 AM (zF6Iw)

291 9 I really need to laugh at ugly people having oral sex and giving each other salad dressing enemas onstage.>>>

.

Mayo or Miracle Whip?

Posted by: Javems at July 25, 2013 10:20 AM (nTgAI)

292

Also, Huma seems Elvira-ish to me. What a loyal wife. pfft

Elvira's got a sense of humor. And boobehs. And a firecrotch.

But otherwise, just like Huma.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 25, 2013 10:21 AM (zF6Iw)

293

Conductors take tickets
Porters carry bags
Drivers manage motor vehicles
Engineers drive trains

NY Congressmen tweet junk.

Posted by: George Orwell the least interesting commenter in the world at July 25, 2013 01:59 PM (0Rwpi)

Former Secretaries of State munch carpet.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 25, 2013 10:23 AM (zF6Iw)

294 @291 ThomasD..

Excellent. I was wondering the physics behind the way the vid shows the derailment happening 3/4 of the way back on the train... makes sense now. AoSHQ comments... clarity and hilarity .... and with wisdom mixed in.

Posted by: Yip at July 25, 2013 10:25 AM (/jHWN)

295 #141

Dismaying as it may be, it's true. I've seen it among my nieces and nephews. In my generation, getting your driver's license was one of the most intensely anticipated events of a teenager's life. OTOH, a lot of these kids are growing up very differently than I did.

By the time I was eight or nine years old, I could get on my bike and disappear for hours without any hysterics from my parents. As long as I didn't get in trouble or not show up for dinner, how I spent a summer day with nothing scheduled was entirely my business. This was pretty much unheard of for my siblings' kids. I don't think my nieces ever went more than a mile from home without adult supervision until they were well into their teens. Between that and the internet, is it any surprise they don't regard driving the same way we did?

Posted by: epobirs at July 25, 2013 10:32 AM (kcfmt)

296 Coming sooner than you think to the CA High Speed Rail network:

Deadly crash caused by an inattentive, poorly-trained, unionized train driver falling asleep at the switch, and who in a recent prior life was an unemployed high school dropout with a criminal record, but related to a well-connected Democrat & who cannot be fired for incompetence or malfeasance because, worker's rights.

Posted by: miked at July 25, 2013 10:59 AM (iZiIb)

297

FWIW, the posted speed was 80 KH, which is 50 MPH (might want to fix that in the post).

The train was traveling at 190 KH (120 MPH), so the train took the curve at almost 2 1/2 time the posted rate of speed.

Anyone who has ever studied transportation engineering - especially when it comes to trains - can tell you that those speeds are limited FOR A REASON.

Physics takes no prisoners......

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 25, 2013 11:03 AM (ADnWI)

298 It's like watching a train wreck.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 25, 2013 11:16 AM (bYRF2)

299 Did the engineer yell that Akbar thing as he goosed the power plant?

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at July 25, 2013 11:48 AM (qwK3S)

300 Well, there is a fully automated train in the US and it is located...you guessed it...in Detroit, LOL. Called the People Mover, it is a window on the world of the city of Detroit, including many vacant boarded up buildings piled with trash. Very cost effective too...without subsidies, it would not exist as it costs .75 to ride, but actually costs close to $5 to maintain per mile. Cost-effectiveness and use[edit] The Mover costs $12 million annually in city and state subsidies to run.[9] The cost-effectiveness of the Mover has drawn criticism.[10] In every year between 1997 and 2006, the cost per passenger mile exceeded $3, and was $4.26 in 2009,[11] compared with Detroit bus routes that operate at $0.82[11] (the New York City Subway operates at $0.30 per passenger mile). The Mackinac Center for Public Policy also charges that the system does not benefit locals, pointing out that fewer than 30% of the riders are Detroit residents and that Saturday ridership (likely out-of-towners) dwarfs that of weekday usage.[12] The system was designed to move up to 15 million riders a year. In 2008 it served approximately 2 million riders. In fiscal year 1999-2000 the city was spending $3 for every $0.50 rider fare, according to The Detroit News. In 2006, the Mover filled less than 10 percent of its seats.[12] Among the busiest periods was the five days around the 2006 Super Bowl XL, when 215,910 patrons used the service.[13] In 2008, the system moved about 7,500 people per day, about 2.5 percent of its daily peak capacity of 288,000.[14][1

Posted by: Jen at July 25, 2013 11:49 AM (QjuH0)

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