March 14, 2013
— Ace I was wondering about this, having written about running from the c-word ("conservative") like liberals do. (Although they hide from it less now-- a sign, perhaps, they're on the upswing, or at least believe they are.)
This got me to wondering why I would possibly suggest that we run from the c-word. Is it that I, unbeknownst to myself, now think the term is unpopular, almost as unpopular as "liberal" was from 1983-1991?
I'm not sure, but I do have suspicions that might be the case.
Posted by: Ace at
01:44 PM
| Comments (256)
Post contains 100 words, total size 1 kb.
Susan Collins of Maine to run again 2014. That seat was likely Dem if she retired. At least she voted against Obamacare
Posted by: JackJ at March 14, 2013 01:46 PM (4WesI)
----------------------------------
Try it out on the nearest female and see how she reacts.
Oh, you don't mean THAT C-word....
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 01:47 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:47 PM (4OvDk)
It's because the Left has stereotyped what a 'Conservative' is.
While they condemn others...for, you know, using stereotypes.
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (2xMNt)
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (Cnqmv)
Posted by: AmishDude at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (y15sM)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:49 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 01:49 PM (yVmMc)
We need a better label.
Posted by: NeoKong at March 14, 2013 01:49 PM (JWLwG)
Posted by: JackJ at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (4WesI)
Posted by: MtTB at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (8E9QA)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (4OvDk)
It's a great (and apt) term for all sorts of reasons: we're the ones actually trying to think about our country's long-term future, and not just live destructively for today; it identifies us with technology and advancement; it moves us towards the libertarian brand and away from the Akin/Palin brand, etc.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (7qVSn)
---------------------------
The Party-Til-You-Puke Party
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 01:51 PM (sTS/8)
"Conservatism proper is a legitimate, probably necessary, and certainly widespread attitude of opposition to drastic change." -- Hayek
That's what Hayek meant by saying he wasn't conservative. . He would almost certainly identify as conservative under the modern POLITICAL definition.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 01:51 PM (UaxA0)
Too many right-wingers are so angry that they just want to fight fight fight instead of learning a lesson about what does and what doesn't reach low-information voters.
I mean, don't they even know any low-information swing voters? Any liberals?
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 01:51 PM (y15sM)
But Hayek wasn't really writing about American conservatism, he was disclaiming the (very different) European usage of that term. So it's an inapt comparison.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:51 PM (/Rmj0)
Oh, you don't mean THAT C-word....
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 05:47 PM (sTS/
Moronettes, please explain to a clueless male why that particular word is so offensive. I honestly don't understand. There are lots of offensive words; why is that particular term so offensive?
Posted by: Ombudsman at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (HqXYa)
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (8ZskC)
Ever wonder what goes through Vice President Joe Biden's head? The White House has just launched an audio series called "Being Biden," where the vice president will share his story of a photograph in which he appears.
The first picture featured in the series is of Biden's serving rolls at a wild game dinner in Delaware earlier this month. The vice president is shaking hands with a man wearing a hunting-style shirt featuring deer in the woods as Biden carries a tong in his other hand.
"Hey folks, I want to tell you about this picture you're looking at," Biden said about the picture. "These are a couple of guys in their hunting shirts that I'm serving a meal to, along with the folks you see in the back gourd and the occasion is once a year the Whitehall Neck Sportsman Club holds a dinner.
[oh boy]
Posted by: mallfly at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:53 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:53 PM (4OvDk)
>> he was disclaiming the (very different) European usage of that term
But, to low-information voters, is the usage really "very different"? I doubt it.
Conservative = scoldy prudes, Scarlet Letter, etc
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 01:54 PM (y15sM)
Posted by: Peaches at March 14, 2013 01:54 PM (VISKy)
People have been brainwashed, since the 70's, to believe that conservative beliefs are not cool: anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-amnesty, anti-large government control for the "socially unjust." They have succeeded in their message, especially to young people.
In my own book, conservative is fine. I can see where people, afraid of taking a stand against the tide, run from this word.
I am not afraid to be a conservative.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 14, 2013 01:55 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:55 PM (kEj+5)
Posted by: BuddyPC at March 14, 2013 01:55 PM (jfUIE)
No matter how many whiteboards and white papers you present, the Left has successfully cause a Rorschach reaction to "conservative" and "Republican" as ... "ICK!!!"
How else could pallid elitists with millions in the bank convince you that Republicans are a white elite party while the Dems are Inclusive Friends of the Poor
Posted by: kbdabear at March 14, 2013 01:55 PM (mCvL4)
Posted by: Stu-22 at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (AiYlm)
On a related note, I've been of the belief that we are long overdue for an attack campaign to smear the "progressive" affiliation. That has been the boulder the left ran to after they finally learned the "liberal" label was too dangerous.
----
Seriously, perhaps it would be more effective, and fun!, to attack their labels than try to defend our own.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (UypUQ)
#34, it's a first step. "Fiscal Conservative" sounds good. Noble. Forthright. Might even be a decent human being.
Now would a Fiscal Conservative pick up a round or two?
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (lbiWb)
i.e. almost everybody under the age of 40.
We kinduv need a few of their votes.
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (y15sM)
If the C-word is so horrible, then it's over anyway. LIB.
Re-branding is pointless - the liberals in the media will just re-focus their hate and "expose" us as the dreaded conservatives, only WORSE because we try to hide it like part of some kind of conspiracy.
Leftist ideas are about to bring doom. Let them own it, and let us be disassociated from it. And again - if America hates conservatives now, then America deserves destruction - Let It Burn. The ideas of the Right are more important than any artifical national construct. If America turns red, then let it be wrecked utterly. It can be argued that the US should be broken up anyway. We're no longer a united country, and many of us are sick of being stuck with each other.
Posted by: Reactionary at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (jfeoD)
You never hear Chris Matthews described as a "liberal pundit"- the implication is that "liberal pundit" is the norm. (Well, yes, it is, but...)
Posted by: Ombudsman at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (HqXYa)
Paleo-con
Neo-con
And the absolute stupidest, gayest attempt at a brand:
Crunchy con.
-----------------------------------
I suppose "Keg-Tapping - con" is too unwieldy to ever catch on.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 01:57 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 01:57 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:57 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: akula51 at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (hNXHo)
Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: Peaches at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (VISKy)
The Society for Economic Justice...
The League for Better Government...
Students for Academic Success...
either that or just "borrow" words the lefties have ruined: imagine a college has announcements for a presentation by the " Progressive Academics Society" and the speaker is Allen West. (He should open with his imitation of Harry Reid.)
Posted by: mallfly at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (3lLli)
You usually hear him described as a "blithering idiot," even by his co-workers and people believing the same things he does.
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (feFL6)
Constitutionalist doesn't sound much better than conservative. Do you have any idea how old that thing is?
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (8ZskC)
So the association with "conservative" amongst the young is that it's for people who don't take risks and therefore don't have any fun.
It's probably always been this way.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (QTHTd)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (9Bj8R)
"How else could pallid elitists with millions in the bank convince you that Republicans are a white elite party while the Dems are Inclusive Friends of the Poor"
Oh, I don't know - perhaps the titular head of the "right wing" party spent the better part of a decade avoiding media of all types?*
"Seriously, perhaps it would be more effective, and fun!, to attack their labels than try to defend our own"
Works for me. * Yeah, that's right. I blame Bush.
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (LCRYB)
***
A better title than Being Biden would be Biden Boo Boo.
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:59 PM (4OvDk)
"Conservatives don't need to rebrand, they just need to email 30 minute Youtube presentations to their friends, link 15 page policy papers on Facebook and Twitter, and start a college organization called "kids with perfectly combed hair and Farah slacks are cool too"
Posted by: kbdabear at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (mCvL4)
What exactly are we trying to "conserve"? Social security? No Child Left Behind? The New Deal? HUD? ObamaCare?
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (y15sM)
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (QTHTd)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: BSKB at March 14, 2013 02:00 PM (4KWOY)
Posted by: akula51 at March 14, 2013 02:01 PM (hNXHo)
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 14, 2013 02:01 PM (Cnqmv)
What exactly are we trying to "conserve"? Social security? No Child Left Behind? The New Deal? HUD? ObamaCare?
Again: "futurist." It works! C'mon, can I get a bandwagon rolling for this?
(Answer: no.)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 02:01 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 02:01 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:02 PM (kEj+5)
We always make fun of the Dems for this "branding" shit. It's not the means, it's the message. the Free Shit Army is on the ascendancy, and there's nothing we can do about it. Relentless indoctrinization, historical illiteracy, and imposed stupidity in the schools have given us two and a half generations of myopic, self-indulgent, feckless retards.
There is no "message" that is going to resonate with this vampiric dependent class of ignoramuses.
Only the sudden imposition of reality will be sufficient to jar these lotus eaters form their slumber.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 02:02 PM (UaxA0)
Your problem is you're trying hard to be reasonable because you think being seen as reasonable is the good thing. But if you accept that conservatism is right-wing lite and right wing lite in this society is really just saying-no-for-awhile-but-then-giving-in-to-the-left it's time to break out the hard stuff.
I'm not a conservative. I'm a Traditionalist.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (9Bj8R)
--------------------------------------------------
The ideals behind the American Revolution, as articulated in the Constitution.
And boobehs.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: akula51 at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (hNXHo)
Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Shoot Me at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (qiXMt)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (GHpOB)
Posted by: Ombudsman at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (HqXYa)
Posted by: coondawg68 at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (VhcOZ)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Leigh Scott at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (BRhVY)
I think its alot easier to attack than defend, let alone rebrand,... with that in mind, lets run a scorched-earth campaign that makes independents perceive democrats/progressives as bureaucratic control-freaks. With the implication that you can better trust conservatives to leave you alone.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 02:05 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: L, elle at March 14, 2013 02:05 PM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at March 14, 2013 02:05 PM (Qxe/p)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 05:59 PM (LCRYB)
Meh. Between cultural balkanization and the very successful Democrat underclass breeding program, this was inevitable. The blessing of universal suffrage (worst idea ever) are finally becoming apparent.
Scum and grievance mongers can't be won over by anything other than propaganda focused on stoking their hate and envy of everyone else. That's not the conservative ideology, so we're not going to have much luck with things as they are, no matter how we try to re-brand or re-focus or whatever else.
Posted by: Reactionary at March 14, 2013 02:06 PM (jfeoD)
Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 14, 2013 02:06 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:06 PM (El+h4)
Howzabout we counter the Left's gross mischaracterization of us, turn the tables on them and start calling them Progressive Communists?
It's what they really are. Additionally, they're promoting an ancient ideology that has never failed to fail. Forget the deaths under those regimes, concentrate on the very real damage that this sort of "thinking" has wrought in recent American history: record numbers of Americans on food stamps, unemployed, a stagnant economy, massive overregulation strangling businesses, the Green Failure.
The evidence is all around us every day. We'll start winning when we find someone with the balls to start pointing it out and calling bullshit on anyone who says "You're RACIST!"
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 14, 2013 02:07 PM (+z4pE)
Posted by: USS Diversity at March 14, 2013 02:07 PM (+bZOu)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 02:07 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:08 PM (kEj+5)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 14, 2013 06:04 PM (GHpOB)
I want to be Sister Boom Boom. Boom Boom meaning economic boom, of course.
Posted by: Ombudsman at March 14, 2013 02:08 PM (HqXYa)
Scum and grievance mongers can't be won over by anything other than propaganda focused on stoking their hate and envy of everyone else. That's not the conservative ideology, so we're not going to have much luck with things as they are, no matter how we try to re-brand or re-focus or whatever else.
So if I understand you correctly, your solution is to either 1.) revoke universal suffrage; 2.) give up and cry in your darkened bedroom.
Seriously, why even bother making this point, then? It's like saying "you can't win, don't bother playing." Are you an adult, or are you a whipped cur? You fight ANYWAY. I don't buy what you're selling, but even if I did I wouldn't be sitting around counseling despair, I'd still be trying to do my best.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 02:08 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: toby928© sips the sweet tea of despair at March 14, 2013 02:09 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 14, 2013 02:09 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 02:09 PM (bxiXv)
***
Is this the country I was born in?
Is this the government today?
I don't remember going crazy.
When did they?
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 14, 2013 02:09 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 05:56 PM (y15sM)
Then the party needs to run a youngish person who speaks clearly of these values. Odd that my two sons are conservative and hung onto these values in the midst of university-domino-thinking-libs. There are more conservatives than you think, who finish college and cannot find a job. Per one son, who is a Facebook dude, said the "47%" Romney speech brought them out of their computers like a swarm when fireant hills are kicked. Until then they were---sort of---thinking Paul Ryan was a cool dude and YOUNG.
You give people too much credit. I am talking the un-educated college student, swayed (so they think) by free Ramen noodles and Fruit of the Loom underwear (Michael Moore). Many have no freaking idea who is even the Secretary of State, or when WWII ended. They vote en-mass for an image.
You will not persuade a generation with bs. Pendulums swing. I was more liberal in college---and was influenced by both the media and other college students who had a liberal agenda. I repeat, pendulums swing. If the country continues to go downhill with jobs, you bet this pendulum is going to swing conservative...and I do not want that to be the reason, but that is what history teaches.
If they want to change a word, and find a more catchy word, fine. PR is everything, and, I agree, conservatives and the GOP stink at this.
While admitting that I cannot stand The Won and the thought of another four years of his prancing ninny-crap, and I pay very little attention to him in my life and turn off TV and have never listened to a speech by him...I remain an eternal optimist that the pendulum will swing back to conservatism. I hope and pray in 2014.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: SFGoth at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (dZ756)
Instead of trying to be liked, try to be demonic. Not really demonic, but people in this society give power to the things they really fear and hate. Just be slightly sketchy enough to create that aura of... conservatism.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Frank Underwood, D-South Carolina at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (fscec)
Posted by: Update5 at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (taaCl)
My bad words of the day are "Bill" and "Gates." A worthy investigative reporter would likely have a field day examining the true motivations of the Gates Foundation and their education reforms. Would pay to have a reporter, instead of sucking on his dick (rather reminiscent of their Obama treatment) directly ask Gates "why do you feel you are qualified to meddle in public school education when you and your wife went to private schools and you send your kids to private schools?" And don't let him get away with the "making better employees" whine. He knows nothing about education, yet he is the Father of education reform in this country right now.
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (RZ8pf)
the phrase "True Progressive"
You mean like Teddy Roosevelt?
Pro-eugenics, pro-big government activism, pro-foreign war?
That kind of "true progressive"
TR was no different from today's progressives, he just lacked the marxist veneer.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (UaxA0)
1.) Your political instincts are pretty awful too, so you're nobody to preach, buddy.
2.) You're right, it's not a perfect word. But we are going to lose and lose again if we are simply identified, in a demotic and technologized society, as the movement of The Stultifying Past. There has to be a brand that captures our defense of Constitutional values with a belief in the future, not simply fighting a rear-guard action against history.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: bugle boy at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (3A16Y)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (3lLli)
-----------------------------
I'm hip. As a subset of the early 20th century Modern Art movement, "Futurist" is fine. As a political identifier -- not so much.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 14, 2013 02:11 PM (+z4pE)
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at March 14, 2013 02:13 PM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 02:13 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:13 PM (9Bj8R)
Since when have I denied that? Cutting entitlement spending = not popular. But...it can be sold if pitched in terms of absolute necessity. You have to find an appealing jar to sell the castor oil in.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 02:13 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (kEj+5)
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: Bosk at March 14, 2013 06:08 PM (n2K+4)
I like this one! Thanks.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (baL2B)
Liberty, on the other hand, is timeless, and is, or should be, our goal.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (U+vgB)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (ZshNr)
As has been said before and will have to be said again, the cretinous Bush family destroyed the hugely important post-Reagan legacy. Rebuilding from that disaster will take a generation. We should start by burning every living Bush family member at the stake, and firing the ashes into the Sun on a huge rocket. (Only mildly tongue in cheek here.)
Posted by: torquewrench at March 14, 2013 02:14 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:15 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at March 14, 2013 02:15 PM (RZ8pf)
-------------------------------------------------
It's given Bill O'Reilly a helluva career, too.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 02:16 PM (sTS/8)
As has been said before and will have to be said again, the cretinous Bush family destroyed the hugely important post-Reagan legacy. Rebuilding from that disaster will take a generation. We should start by burning every living Bush family member at the stake, and firing the ashes into the Sun on a huge rocket. (Only mildly tongue in cheek here.)
Posted by: torquewrench at March 14, 2013 06:14 PM (gqT4g)
---
^^^THIS^^^
Posted by: Craig Poe at March 14, 2013 02:16 PM (BVkEs)
>> Until then they were---sort of---thinking Paul Ryan was a cool dude and YOUNG.
Yeah, I totally agree. Paul Ryan was not the problem.
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 02:16 PM (y15sM)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 14, 2013 02:17 PM (+z4pE)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:17 PM (kEj+5)
Posted by: stickety at March 14, 2013 02:17 PM (+Vm+w)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:17 PM (9Bj8R)
Remember who the choices were after 8 years of Democrat governance?
Bush and McCain.
Real conservative choices there.
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 02:18 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 14, 2013 02:19 PM (C8mVl)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 02:19 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:19 PM (El+h4)
------------------------------------
And by "love" you mean, "Appreciate the fact that I don't beat them if they scrub the skid marks out of my skivvies."
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 02:19 PM (sTS/8)
if you throw in "Moderate" as a third choice, you get a 2-2-1 ---- two out of five are cons, two of five are moderates, one is liberal
Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at March 14, 2013 02:20 PM (Dll6b)
important post-Reagan legacy
America would actually be a freer and more prosperous country today if Michael Dukakis had won that election, God help us all.
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 02:20 PM (y15sM)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 02:21 PM (feFL6)
My biggest beef with the Bushes...is that they don't *defend* conservatism.
They ride on it.
They depend on others to defend it...while they ride on it, and ride it into the ground.
Rick Perry today, in a short speech, defined and defended conservative principles more than I have ever heard the Bushes do.
Perry did this, while openly mocking Barky too.
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 02:21 PM (2xMNt)
How about Comb-over Conservatives? Desperate to connect with a youthful generation that has no interest in them other than as a wallet to pay for their rent/drugs/obamaphones?
This really recalls the futile attempts by the Greatest Generation to connect with the Free Love culture of the 60s and Cocaine Summer of the 70s.
The result, Sammy Davis in a Nehu jacket and love-beads instead of a proper tux.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2013 02:21 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 06:08 PM (/Rmj0)
Fair enough. Sometimes my old enthusiasm for the struggle flares up a bit and I spout off. And I am grateful for your efforts - you and those like you may help buy extra time for others among us to strip all we can out of this place before the collapse. But an ever increasing share of your "fellow Americans" resent/hate you. They're the ones breeding the slums to overflowing, teaching the kids in public schools and universities, running the bureaucracies. You are fighting to save a nation that doesn't want to be saved.
So, if it's true that we've hit the point that "conservative" really is a bad word, then screw 'em all. LIB.
Posted by: Reactionary at March 14, 2013 02:21 PM (jfeoD)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (uvjrz)
>> I dunno about re-branding conservatism, but I do think we need to rebrand "liberalism." Never call them "liberals." Call them leftists. Call them left-wing. Call them statists. Above all else, call them the ESTABLISHMENT, the ruling class.
Amen, sister.
Posted by: sandy burger at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (y15sM)
consistent results, they demonstrate...
Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (Dll6b)
Only ZULU
Posted by: weft cut-loop
***
It's Zuul darn it. I am so going to fire my PR guy.
Posted by: Zuul the Gatekeeper of Gozer at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (uhftQ)
---------------------------------------
Oh Jesus fucking Crawfish -- what "establishment" chose our candidates for us? Who "made" the individual candidates decide to run or not run?
Talk about populist bullshit....
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (kEj+5)
I got called 'dirty' by a black kid today walking through a Giant food market.
To be fair, I was wearing a bowtie, vest, and matching navy pants/coat/hat.
But still.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:23 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: The Dude at March 14, 2013 02:23 PM (vJdyz)
Here's another point we're not selling: The bigger Washington becomes, the less you have.
So much low-hanging fruit, so many unwilling to grasp it.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 14, 2013 02:23 PM (+z4pE)
Posted by: TexasDan at March 14, 2013 02:24 PM (Fa3Hi)
Posted by: navybrat at March 14, 2013 02:24 PM (CgiRY)
1. federalized local public education via NCLB
2. turned budget surpluses into large deficits
3. incompetently managed two war / nation-building missions"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And he did (3) after having pledged, as a candidate, that once President, he would have nothing to do with nation-building, saying that it was a fundamentally flawed concept!
So: taking one strong public position while a candidate, and then in office turning around and doing precisely the opposite thing, and having it be a total disaster, and selling all this crap to the ordinary public as "conservatism", and then wondering why "conservative" has become a bad word.
This is, of course, Bush family tradition.
Bush the Lesser (that is, Bush 41, distinguished from his son Bush 43, or Bush the Even Lesser), went out on the campaign trail and said, "Read my lips, NO NEW TAXES". Then in office, Bush the Lesser promptly socked Americans with a fat new tax hike. Then BTL was completely surprised when the electorate responded to his inconsistency by saying, "If this is 'conservatism', we want no more of that shit," and threw his ass out of office, replacing him with a liberal.
Bushes delenda est. With extreme prejudice. Sow the earth of Kennebunkport with salt afterward.
Posted by: torquewrench at March 14, 2013 02:24 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 14, 2013 02:24 PM (GVxQo)
This argument is a little bacwards. People vote for persons, not party labels. Get more attractive and interesting voices like Rubio, Rand P., Cruz, Dr. Carson out talking up conservatism and these voices will gradually re-define the party label and philosophy. Its about the Person You Guys.
Much like the nonsensical "Wii" brand-name, which was panned the moment Nintendo revealed it for the first time, the product ended up defineing the name than the name did the product.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 02:24 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:25 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 02:25 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 14, 2013 02:25 PM (mNCbk)
Posted by: Soothsayer, of the Righteousness and Harmonious Fists at March 14, 2013 02:26 PM (oxIUw)
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 14, 2013 02:27 PM (mNCbk)
Posted by: Zippity Doo Dah at March 14, 2013 02:27 PM (E55AK)
As long as leftists hate it it should work out fine.
Us dirty folks will keep the dirt real over here for ya.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (kEj+5)
With Vice President Joe Biden attending the pope's investiture in Rome Tuesday and President Obama leaving for the Middle East the same day, there is potential for a very rare occurrence: That both may be out of the country at the same time.
At least I get a day off.
Posted by: The Chicken at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (+z4pE)
is McCain a conservative, is Graham, is Cantor or Boehner?
no, they aren't but they claim to be.
this causes all kinds of confusion, especially amoungst the low-info types on our side who go around calling themselves conservatives but support nanny-state programs like S.S., Medicare/Medicaid, and others.
if you support Big Gov. programs, you are a Big Gov. statist, not a conservative.
Posted by: Shoey at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (jdOk/)
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 14, 2013 06:27 PM (mNCbk)
that's a good one
Posted by: The Dude at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (vJdyz)
Posted by: wooga at March 14, 2013 02:28 PM (76Gx5)
Posted by: rickb223 at March 14, 2013 02:29 PM (d0Dmj)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 06:28 PM (kEj+5)
I hate it when the local kids do that.
Posted by: Reactionary at March 14, 2013 02:29 PM (jfeoD)
Here's the ugly truth: unless we are picking off at least one of Gore's states, we aren't winning in 2016 or 2020 or 2024 or any future date. Since the pendulum-swing required to force out an existing party is strong enough to reflect shifting attitudes in the various states, my #1 rule with elections still holds and has held since the 18th century. It holds because for an electorate to toss out one party there are "canary in the coalmine" states that indicate as such. WV in 2000. NC, VA, CO in 2008. MA in 1980. CA in 1992. And so on and so on... If we aren't looking at really flipping states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc, we're fucked. The demographic and partisan shifts during Presidential elections have been so substantial that a state like Wisconsin that became redder in state governance than South Carolina in 2010 still voted for Obama by 7 points.
Until those lost suburban voters and the younger vote is played for we're the minority party for at least another decade.
Posted by: CAC at March 14, 2013 02:30 PM (p7Xiw)
That's because conservatism is a chimera except in limited scopes and circumstances. If homosexuality became the norm, conservatives would be pro-gay.
Conservatism, like many of the assumptions in our founding documents, works right when society is at least partly sane and partly barbaric. When it's crazy and whipped, forget it.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:30 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 02:30 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: angel with a sword at March 14, 2013 02:30 PM (3RiPs)
Posted by: Marmo at March 14, 2013 02:31 PM (pcgW1)
It is, big time. If they election were held today, they'd lose 100 seats with Labour holding an 84 seat majority.
Cameron's done half-assed austerity and sullied the name of that policy.
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 02:31 PM (yVmMc)
nah i think if Rubio offers aspirational stories but his politics are identical to McCain/Romney people're gonna notice
Posted by: JDP at March 14, 2013 06:29 PM (60GaT)
... all ready have noticed.
(nice Amnesty bill you got there Senator Rubio.)
Posted by: Shoey at March 14, 2013 02:31 PM (jdOk/)
I say unite the rightwing voices and let them talk to each other. Don't kick anyone out; don't set or force a party line or agenda. At some point a party line will form, but it needs to do so organically.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:32 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: wooga at March 14, 2013 02:32 PM (76Gx5)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 14, 2013 02:33 PM (GHpOB)
In the movie ratings, 'R' stands for...Realism.
People say..."get real"...when someone is being foolish.
The Left claims to love 'reality', but they ignore it and live in their fantasy world for most of the time.
Which is why I think we should use the word 'Reality' in our re-branding.
If you look at conservative principles...they embrace the reality of common sense.
So again, I suggest Reality-Con...or Re-Con...as a way to convey what conservatism is really about.
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 02:34 PM (2xMNt)
When you think you actually could credibly get beat or shot by an ordinary person for doing something - not something deadly, but maybe just something dumbass - society is the right amount barbaric.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:35 PM (El+h4)
"Oh please stop blaming the Bush Family. I hear enough of that from obama"
We blame the Bushes for the polar opposite reason that TFG does.
Additionally, TFG's blame is built on the lie that the Bushes were *actually* conservatives (or whatever the label is now). They most certainly were not in anything much more than their claim to be so. The balance of the their records screams Big Government. TFG is happy to hang the label "conservative" on those failures.
Of course I'd prefer GHWB and GWB to TFG. I'd be an idiot or a capital L-Libertarian (same difference) to say there's no difference. But we must, must, must very soon get Constitutionalist, small-government, small-l-libertarians into offices or it Will Be Over.
Posted by: Jaws at March 14, 2013 02:35 PM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 14, 2013 02:36 PM (C8mVl)
Posted by: CAC at March 14, 2013 06:30 PM (p7Xiw)
---
How about we flip the script and for the urban voters? Call me a dreamer, but I think a Dr. Carson candidacy could play very well in city precincts. Such as Philadelphia... Detroit.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 02:36 PM (UypUQ)
Social cons get upset if the wrong thing goes in your butt.
So do we. It's an exit, not an entrance, dumbshit.
And ignore me too while you're at it.
Posted by: The Concept of Mating Parts at March 14, 2013 02:36 PM (+z4pE)
I've said it a million times, but it's still true, lots more wingnuts putting their kids in a position to get into good schools and get good jobs is the only way things change.
Posted by: Zippity Doo Dah at March 14, 2013 02:37 PM (E55AK)
Even when confronting the Dem's on bizarre lists of prohibited guns, Repub's are always *not* taking that extra step into Reaction. Some of them are intelligent enough to do it with a deadly calm and wit, but don't. That's because they're conservatives mentally and not reactionaries.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:37 PM (El+h4)
it's not a completely accurate description of my political philosphy but it does capture the essense of it.
Posted by: Shoey at March 14, 2013 02:38 PM (jdOk/)
Read 'The Last Psychiatrist's blog. He talks about the scam that college has become.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:39 PM (El+h4)
She voted for Obama. She is a very devout Catholic who has become liberal in her old age due to liberal family members who have her ear, plus watching CNN around the clock and only reading news in the paper. No way, no how, would my father-in-law have voted for Obama. He was a director of a defense contracting company, a conservative to the core when his son (and I) were more liberal in college. I married into this very Catholic family to a son who had Protestant beliefs before I met him. I did not influence him, much to her disbelief.
In addition to the media and liberal bent of other family, her own brother came out of the closet as a middle-aged widower with grown children. In order to accept him and his partner (also formerly married middle-aged guy) into the fold, and, in her mind, believe her brother will be in heaven, she now believes he was born this way. Her liberal thinking started with this. Since the 70's this has been the message for gay-rights (they were born this way, and God approves of sinning...the same as He would approve of me committing adultry while going to church and proclaiming to be a Christian), in addition to blurring over scripture vs sodomy...that the word "homosexual" was not addressed in the Bible. In that aspect, like Clinton's definition of "is" during his impeachment proceedings, they are correct. The gay-rights movement attached themselves to the coattails of civil rights. It became very unpopular, over the last few decades, to be against gay-marriage or conservative values like being anti-abortion. Churches are dividing, today, over these issues.
As I said, over time, as an adult and parent, I became more conservative. I asked my mother-in-law (again, a staunch Catholic in her own eyes, attending mass daily) how she could vote for pro-abortion candidates. She could not answer this question...yet her vote goes with the tide and admits to voting for The Won.
We, the collective body of conservative constitutionalists, are not only going against the tide of popular thinking but against the media. That is the main problem: the biased media. I do not know how that message will change.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 14, 2013 02:39 PM (baL2B)
Y'all are flailing. You were in the last post and no less in this effort.
It's evident what the other side is.
We, on the other hand, are Americans. They aren't.
If some don't want to be Americans, fine.
Can't stop believing in America and it's advantages so get confrontational with these assholes and ridicule the living shit out of them.
Do that enough and we win.
Posted by: irongrampa at March 14, 2013 02:40 PM (SAMxH)
Tell them you're fiscally conservative, I'd say 65 will nod in agreement.
Tell them you're socially conservative, 65 of them will either frown or roll their eyes.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 14, 2013 02:41 PM (HDgX3)
Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2013 02:42 PM (tOkJB)
As an Orthodox Christian I often have to make the distinction between homosexual activity (which is what the scripture considers abhorrent) and homosexuality, which is not mentioned at all. 'Sexuality' as such is not a topic; you're expected to be responsible with your parts regardless of how you feel about another person, man, woman, space alien, end of story.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:42 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 02:44 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 06:24 PM (UypUQ)
_________
I disagree. In general people vote for the party. This is especially true at the state/local. I have no clue who my state rep/senator is or who my county commissioner is. I just always vote for the (R) and hope for the best.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 14, 2013 02:45 PM (HDgX3)
but really political labels are meaningless...
"Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
- Robert Heinlein
Posted by: Shoey at March 14, 2013 02:47 PM (jdOk/)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 14, 2013 06:45 PM (HDgX3)
I want to slap you, and then never stop slapping you, not because you vote for R's but because you do so in such an unthinking and fatalistic manner, good God man!
use your brain!
Posted by: Shoey at March 14, 2013 02:49 PM (jdOk/)
Posted by: angel with a sword at March 14, 2013 02:51 PM (3RiPs)
80-ish percent of people do, nowadays. The others pick the...how do I put this discreetly?!...the less unfuckable guy (if the candidates are two guys). The "R" on the "R" guy is a blinding halo of unfuckability. He can take it off and horseshoe it onto the other guy's head if he wants, but...he won't.
Bush managed it just by being an actual guy (who sucked and was hated but was a guy), then the last two were these nervous weirdos who can't handle themselves, and Rubio and Jindal and Bush MXMLXXXIV are weak creeps nobody can trust, and there's no way Cruz or Paul will ever make it near the head of "the line"...
I'm looking forward to President Weiner. I think he'll be our last.
Posted by: oblig. at March 14, 2013 03:00 PM (cePv8)
Given that Barack Obama's election and reelection largely consisted of getting politically uninvolved people to vote for him for trivial reasons, it seems that the winning strategy may well be to persuade the under 40 crowd to vote for equally trivial reasons. Wearing flannel and drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon is an ironic statement. So is wearing those silly skimpy brim hats.
Perhaps the only chance a conservative has any more is to be the ironic choice. If that is the case, Ron Paul, Pat Buchannan or Newt Gingrich might have a better chance than Bobby Jindal or Paul Ryan. Sara Palin might actually be the most electable candidate in an irony campaign.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 03:08 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 03:19 PM (HzhBE)
Liberal is always the dumb ass dirty word. Conservative, oh they are trying their darndest, still rules the most.
Posted by: Prescient11 at March 14, 2013 03:19 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Herronblade at March 14, 2013 03:24 PM (gqLBw)
Posted by: Dave M at March 14, 2013 03:58 PM (tveBH)
Posted by: troyriser at March 14, 2013 04:08 PM (ptcFO)
Note that, even now, "fiscal conservative" is a label most people claim (often falsely.)
Posted by: George LeS at March 14, 2013 04:09 PM (C4s3i)
Posted by: ExSnipe at March 14, 2013 04:25 PM (PBm/l)
Posted by: halodoc at March 14, 2013 05:56 PM (Fzbp3)
Posted by: Ostral B Heretic at March 14, 2013 07:01 PM (79AXR)
Posted by: andrew breitbart at March 15, 2013 06:24 AM (xsG+Y)
Posted by: andrew breitbart at March 15, 2013 06:49 AM (xsG+Y)
Posted by: Cackfinger at March 15, 2013 12:48 PM (CCHli)
Posted by: karl at March 15, 2013 08:29 PM (01IIz)
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 16, 2013 06:27 AM (g5wi5)
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 16, 2013 06:36 AM (g5wi5)
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Posted by: Dresden at March 14, 2013 01:46 PM (7aSZR)