1

You get what you elect.

2 Yes, keep blaming the victims instead of the perp. People vote for politicians in congress that claim to be fiscal conservatives, but then turn around and spend all the money. At some point you need to realize that its not the people voting, its the politicians being sociopaths.

3 I think it was Milton Friedman who said, we don't need better politicians, we need better voters. Politicians will always act in their own political self-interest, and they will only start doing the right things when doing so becomes politically profitable.

4 It’s simply too much to expect a political party to stand up to voters and say, “no”. They don't seem to have much trouble telling me that. At this point I think we need to position ourselves for what comes next - making a vibrant political party with ideas and solutions to deal with the coming inflation and misery. Preventing it is highly unlikely at this point. You can only convince people by telling them the facts. The GOP doesn't do that. It prefers playing 'the game.' We need a party willing to attack the Democrats and the Vichy-GOP.

5

Burn you will let it.

6 2 Yes, keep blaming the victims instead of the perp. It's not their fault, it's society's! They can't help themselves! We dress too sexy!

7 "If conservative means whatever the respondent thinks it means..." 

Truer words were never spoken.  Great point.

8 Milton Friedman was wrong, because even when you vote the bastards out, the next group that promised to not be the same ends up being exactly the same.

9 "They don't seem to have much trouble telling me that. " Bevel is right, they tell the base "no" all the time.

10 Yesterday, I read a short comment on the editorial page that blamed EVERYTHING wrong in politics on the Tea Party.

Yep. People are just that stupid.

11 Well, I'm entirely with you on this Drew (I believe this government is a nearly perfect reflection of our stupid, selfish, celebrity-obsessed society).

I just don't think there will be any "reforming" of anything until it all burns to the ground.

12 We have professional politicians, so of course they will be governed by market pressures.

Perhaps the answer is a simple one: term limits.

13 Say it with me: The schools and the media, the schools and the media. The schools are not so much about political indoctrination as cultural indoctrination. You can slam people for the former, but the latter is more insidious. It's about molding impressions and emotions about basic vocabulary and ideas. How much of the "Obama cares more about me" crap is rooted in grade/high school mantras about the primacy of emotional expression? How much of the climate change crap is due to bullshit grade school notions? The Left's aim always has been to form the people into what they want them to be (read anything by Dewey), and they've largely succeeded.

14 At this point, I'm not so sure we can ever "shift" the culture to the extent needed to make even the most minor changes seem meaningful.  We've been growing up with the FSA since the early 1900's.  How the fuck do you counter that before a real collapse happens?  You can't.

Collapse first.  Rebuild later.

15 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

16 Is this the purity/RINO flame thread?

Your mother smells of elderberries!

17 At some point you need to realize that its not the people voting, its the politicians being sociopaths. Posted by: DocMerlin at January 16, 2013 10:22 AM (eQ/jF) Again. They only do this because they get rewarded. You can re-read the post(or read it for the first time) if you'd like.

18 Your mother smells of elderberries! --- Fetchez le vache.

19

Good piece, Drew.  Especially the part about who considered themselves conservatives.

 

20 Yes, the American voters in the last election suck.  But it IS the GOP's fault they could not offer a candidate who would inspire their voters to come out and vote.


The major problem is the shitty primary system put in place by the Party bosses that assures we get one GD moderate after another.


I have said it many times and I will say it again.  If they don't fix this shit by the next national election they can kiss my ass.  I will sit at home and let the communists burn it to the ground.

21 I concur with EC, there is simply no way to make this generation, or consequently, the next, understand what is at stake without letting them experience the consequences of the choices we have made in the past century.


They must understand poverty and uncertainty as previous generations did, or they will never change.  It's terribly grim and horribly saddening, but it is the truth.

22 It's like I keep trying to tell folks...forget politics, or at least stop making that your main focus. Shore up community groups with good values, church groups, youth organizations...find groups with good values, or start them if you have to. We can't laugh at "community organizing" anymore. We stopped doing it, and that's why we're screwed now.

23

A conservative country that claims to support smaller government doesnÂ’t elect Barack Obama not once but twice (no matter how awful Romney was).

 

That less than a monkey coblogger just can't help himself.

24 I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day. Or at least some of it. My fucking money. Which has been taken from me every fucking week since I started working at 16. Tell me again why this makes me and others bad conservatives.

25 Posted by: Vic at January 16, 2013 10:31 AM (53z96) Not a single GOP candidate was agitating for the dissolution of SS or Medicaid. That should tell you something.

26 If they don't fix this shit by the next national election they can kiss my ass. You have far more tolerance than I. The GOP is already dead to me.

27 I needed some news to pick me up this morning and got it... A classic cult favorite of mine, Repo Man, is getting a Blu-Ray release by the Criterion Collection.

28 Many voters are conservatively natured but the MFM is putting them to sleep. The Left Media Monopoly must be broken in the burning.

29 America is no longer a serious country. I blame the Progressives in and out of politics. I also blame a significant portion of the GOP. Functionally they are pretty much the same: meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

But, yes, our system has been utterly corrupted; so now it's just a matter of everyone for himself to grab what one can before the final collapse, a collapse which is already underway.

SID and LIB.

30 if I want MY social security money back some day

Lol.  Before I was born, the Supreme Court ruled that it's not YOUR money.

I'm sorry your parents and grandparents stole your wages, but that doesn't give you an inalienable right to steal other people's wages.

31 I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day. It makes you an idiot. It's not "your" money once you pay for it. It pays for someone else. Someone else lay out the facts for the umpteen bazillionth time. I'm fatigued from dealing with the chronically clueless.

32 This is why some of us have just given up and are just waiting for the fire.

33 24 I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day. Or at least some of it. My fucking money. Which has been taken from me every fucking week since I started working at 16. The money's gone, and it wasn't yours. That was a lie. That money went to bridges and the Robert Byrd memorial Hospital. That ship has sailed. The time to put a stop to that was thirty years ago. You'll get your check, but inflation will make it worthless.

34 It's very simplificated, and I'll use small words so you less itinerant whities can understandify: Conservative = Racist Rich Folk.

See? Simple. I hope you were not confusalated.

35 It¡¯s simply too much to expect a political party to stand up to voters and say, ¡°no¡±. At some point, you have to be the adult in the room and say "No. You can't have another piece of candy". That way, if you lose your elected, not appointed-for-life seat, you can go home with your head held high & be blameless when it burns. And it IS going to burn. Math is a bitch.

36 Damn, that's all we need. A cob writing movie reviews.

37

Any MA morons in here? Just saw on FB that Deville has introduced his own Massachusetts gun control thing. Looks pretty comprehensive. No more gun show/private sales (well, they'd have to do background checks, which would be about tthe same thing as I understand it), all sorts of other treats.

Attempt at link in name.

38 Nobody believes the burner is hot until they touch it.

Pain is the only teacher that offers a lasting lesson.

39 22 It's like I keep trying to tell folks...forget politics, or at least stop making that your main focus. Shore up community groups with good values, church groups, youth organizations...find groups with good values, or start them if you have to. We can't laugh at "community organizing" anymore. We stopped doing it, and that's why we're screwed now. Posted by: Brother Cavil, Ampersand Wrangler at January 16, 2013 10:31 AM (GBXon) ------ THIS!!! Community organizing filled the huge gaps left by the mid-century cultural discontinuities. And now look at where the Left is recruiting: They're all over hispanic and muslim groups. They're committed to forcing the GOP to be a white racial minority partially so that they can blame them for that outcome and use it as evidence to convert more non-white groups to their political faith and gain even more leverage to use race as a cudgel. It's a really sick & twisted game, but it's working.

40 I think there are two things that have to happen.

First, I like Drew's idea of Independent Conservative Senators and Representatives.  Folks like Rand Paul, and Jim Demint, and so on being able to say, "I'm not with them" would help.

But then, after they accept and even embrace their roles as political Cassandras, it all needs to burn.  The cancer has spread too far, it has metastasized to too many other organs.  The current incarnation of the American Experiment needs to let go, so something else can arise.

Yes, that will take a long time.  Historically speaking, 100 years or more.  Yes, it will be painful, and barbaric, and generally not-so-nice.  Yes, people will be reduced to slightly-better-than-subsitance living. 

Sometimes it's the only answer.

41 Complicity is not the GOP's fault, Drew?  Jesus, man, I've watched you be stone wrong on a lot of stuff but really, congratulations on this one.

I'll ask you the same question I used to ask Malor:  Why do you blog?

42 What the GOP and/or conservative/libertarian leaning parties in general need to to be LESS wonkish and didactic and policy orientated and more, dare I say it, TOUCHY FEELY.   Fifty percent of our population operate, by default, on emotion (that would be the female 50 pct). And I'd say 25 percent of the other half of the country does as well (that would be the young men and coming of agers and those males trying to score vag.).

GOP needs an army of PR experts, publicity agents, Madison Avenue veterans and young turks, attractive and sharp talking heads and yet another army of Facebook and comment stream Special Operators.  All these folks will build the brand. And the brand must not be old stogey monicle guy from Monopoly, nor three piece suit Senator, etc., etc.

The Brand needs to be Young, Hip, Caring, Involved, Progressive (but not in the sense you think I mean), Sharp, Social Network, Rebellious (to the status quo), and must be TOUCHY FEELY with POSITIVE VIBE, CONSTANT OPTIMISM, and YOUTHFUL HUMOR.

OF COURSE the foundation must be there, but the people you're trying to reach don't have the attention span to learn or comprehend the foundation of classical liberal thought.

Might even rethink the term "CONSERVATIVE" same as the Lefty's switched from Liberal to Progressive.  Really, what does the word Conservative evoke in your mind if you don't have a preconceived notion?

43 37 Any MA morons in here? Just saw on FB that Deville has introduced his own Massachusetts gun control thing. Looks pretty comprehensive. No more gun show/private sales(well, they'd have to do background checks, which would be about tthe same thing as I understand it), all sorts of other treats. Attempt at link in name. --- IMHO, all this will accomplish is making sure that New England can put up a Berlin Wall to keep its people from fleeing to the Tex-iana Alliance once the shit hits the fan.

44 Burn you will let it. Posted by: Yoda at January 16, 2013 10:23 AM (C2Y4l) You've got a mighty purty mouth.

45 Well thought out and written. HOW to get others to think that way will be difficult. It seems one needs to be raised (or have an epiphany) to believe the Government works for us and not the other way around.

46 You own a gun? Ooh, that's going to raise your premiums...

47 The ehanced background checks, which will be in compliance with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), would require the state's courts to transmit relevant mental health records to the criminal justice information system

Umm...that something they were already supposed to be doing...for like the past 17 years.  Doh.

48 Yes, the American voters in the last election suck. But it IS the GOP's fault they could not offer a candidate who would inspire their voters to come out and vote. The GOP could have put up the second coming of Christ and it wouldn't have mattered, unless He was willing to give away more free stuff than the chocolate messiah.

49 I am afraid the GOP need to burn with all the traitors to the charters that it used too stand for in the past. When Beohner cried you knew we needed somebody with a steel spine. And we get more capitulation fro RINo's and that feeds the erosion of the core values of the USA. Some people still live with Integrity, Justice and Forgiveness, but over time we have just been force fed tolerance as an excuse for you to accept something you know in your heart that is wrong.

50 The GOP could have put up the second coming of Christ and it wouldn't have mattered, unless He was willing to give away more free stuff than the chocolate messiah. --- He would have given away salvation to all and people would have been whining that they weren't getting their free Obamaphone.

51 Nobody believes the burner is hot until they touch it. Pain is the only teacher that offers a lasting lesson. Amen. That WOULD make a great reality show.

52

There is a pro-bono class action lawsuit versus NYS's a-hole gun control law starting up NOW

 

http://is.gd/99wr5F

53 I sit a few cubes away from three of our newest hires.  They are new CompSci grads and we employ them as Java programmers.  They happen to sit amongst some IT guys in their 50s and 60s, who are mainframe DBAs and Systems Programmers.  The newbies are just as Conservative as the older guys, which is very damn Conservative, particularly the DBAs.  It is true that they are graduates from two Oklahoma Universitys and one in Colorado (also an AF vet), so they did not get as much liberal indoctrination as a poli-sci major from a California school.  They give me hope.

OTOH, in the cube on the other side of me is another of our new Java hires.  He was born and raised in Marin, CA.  He is a failed lawyer who turned to programming to feed his family.  There is not a single Liberal idea that he does not embrace.

54 Yes! We're getting them to turn on each other. They've actually internalized the crap we print...

55 I'll say it again:

The GOP's primary function in American politics since the New Deal has been to (A) slow down the pace at which America moves down the trajectory set by the left without changing said trajectory in the slightest, and (B) to prevent a genuine opposition movement from taking root and rising up by channeling into the GOP the energies that would otherwise be spent building such a movement.

And this is why I'm joining the Libertarian Party.

56 The solution begins and ends in the schools and in the family. The left have sought to destroy both and by all accounts they have succeeded. Politics and elections are merely the end result of the brainwashing of at least 3 generations of America's children. Since there is no real way to take back the schools, and hence the culture, to change the mindset of Americans going forward, I do not see any way to solve the problem. America as it stands is finished. What comes after is anyone's guess.

57 Another problem, though, with the polling is that I would *never* identify as a conservative and yet I have been voting for republicans with a passion, because fiscally I am completely allied with the conservative position.  

58 The GOP could have put up the second coming of Christ and it wouldn't have mattered, unless He was willing to give away more free stuff than the chocolate messiah. --- He would have given away salvation to all and people would have been whining that they weren't getting their free Obamaphone. Exactly. Which is why it doesn't matter who the GOP runs. The public has realized that they can raid the public treasury. This country is doomed.

59 He would have given away salvation to all and people would have been whining that they weren't getting their free Obamaphone.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 16, 2013 10:43 AM (e0xKF)

This made me laugh, then I actually shed a tear when I realized how true it is. -.-

60 I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day. Or at least some of it. My fucking money. Which has been taken from me every fucking week since I started working at 16.

Tell me again why this makes me and others bad conservatives.

Posted by: BlueStateRepub at January 16, 2013 10:32 AM (7ObY1)
=============

It doesn't make you a "bad" conservative to want your social security money back- it just makes you a sucker in denial.  But you really should not feel bad about that because you, and me, and every other sucker since FDR swallowed the same lie.

The truth is that Social Security is a TAX.  And the government is not obligated to give back any money it takes in taxes.

That's the beginning, middle, and end of it.

61 The GOP in its current form may never again win the presidency.  Paul Ryan is damaged goods.  Marco Rubio couldn't help bring Romney Florida.  Rand Paul is Luap Nor's son.

Maybe there is hope in Ted Cruz, but that's a ways away. 

Let. It. Burn.

62 Bravo. Fucking Spot On. I finally stopped lurking here to agree with this article.

63 I've honestly never thought we were a majority conservative country. At least, not in the last 20 years or so at least. How many well-meaning idiots do you know that say "I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal"? They completely agree that we shouldn't spend more than we have, but they also want you to know they feel sorry for the poor and that Something Must Be Done!™ And they're completely unable to recognize the competition between the two.

64 OTOH, in the cube on the other side of me is another of our new Java hires. He was born and raised in Marin, CA. He is a failed lawyer who turned to programming to feed his family. There is not a single Liberal idea that he does not embrace.

At least he should be fun to mock.  And if you do it enough (since Liberals hate being mocked above all other things), he may just be forced to rethink some of his biases.

65 Yes, that will take a long time. Historically speaking, 100 years or more.

The Russians did it in under 20 years.  The Russian Federation is still a work in progress of course, but a damn sight better than the Soviets were.

The PRC transitioned from Maoism to a weird politically authoritarian yet economically (in the private sector) "chaos capitalism" in about 10 years.

In the span of only 40 years Germany went from Kaiser, to dysfunctional Wiemar, to Hitler, to modern Germany.

66 I'll ask you the same question I used to ask Malor: Why do you blog? Posted by: Ten at January 16, 2013 10:38 AM (56DAY) You comment maybe stupid but at least you have a nice hash.

67 Posted by: Vic at January 16, 2013 10:31 AM (53z96)

And what makes the primary system even sillier is that the fix is easy. The one you and others have suggested; state with the greatest percentage of votes for the Republican candidate goes first, is perfect. No fuss, no muss, no argument.

68

Step 1: change the argument from "Conservative" to "Federalist". Huge gap in understanding what Federalism means. (Hint: it does not mean that the States are administrative districts to the national government.)

Step 2:  aid programs currently run by Washington DC to be block granted to the States, complete with budgets, and without strings. Lather, rinse, repeat. After two or three years they are written out of the Code of Federal Regulations.

That defines what our argument is - is not Conservatism so much as Fedealism. It also places at State level the argument of government participation in the lives of its citizenry. Let the States do what they will. No programs need to be cut - unless the State cuts them.  No one gets bailed out - unless the State bails them out.

 

69 18 Your mother smells of elderberries! --- Fetchez le vache. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 16, 2013 10:30 AM (e0xKF) Qua?

70 @55 you have a point that is very justified...

71 38 Nobody believes the burner is hot until they touch it. Pain is the only teacher that offers a lasting lesson. Posted by: @PurpAv at January 16, 2013 10:37 AM (1Cuor) The burnt fools bandaged finger always goes wabbling back to the fire.

72 The meat hooks are in, you've all seen the 80% welfare number on interwebs over the past few days. We've crossed the rubicon. America no longer exists in the image that we think it should. Protect and provide for your friends, family and neighbors (if they deserve it and help out as well) as we always have.  Be strong. Make the statists eat the failures they have created every chance you get, do not offer them comfort or aide, they will only take advantage of your good nature. Pray.

73 The Democrat party has bought the votes of >50% of voters with their own money. You must convince a significant portion of these people that it is in their best interests to take less to have any chance at turning things around.

Good luck Jim.

74

Our 50% + 1 system will always come down to the forging of informal coalitions  of smaller interest groups within TWO major parties.  Third parties are nothing more than another interest group and their votes do nothing but decrease the margin of victory of one of the majors. 

 

Our  problem is the explosive growth of the Free Shit Army interest group and their enablers.  They make the divide between the two parties into a chasm that can't be bridged.

 

If we loved ourselves and truly didn't want to end up at each other's throats, we'd self-balkanize peacefully and in a planned manner to keep the pot from boiling over.  But we won't.  We're too stupid and hardheaded.   It's also not in the statists' nature to allow movement in that direction and we'll probably bleed  for it  before it's all said and done. 

75 I always bitch about the fact that we have no one who can articulate conservatism to the people and make it sound desirable. Hard work and delayed gratification and the concepts of the free market are less difficult to preach than screaming you're a victim and here's some free shit that belonged to you in the first place. Oh, and free sex! As the last of the senior citizens, who have a collective memory of what America should be, pass away, then America as founded will have died, if it has not done so already (and I think it has).

76

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people ...

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


Perhaps, we need to make this a requirement of office for our federal government.

77 But you really should not feel bad about that because you, and me, and every other sucker since FDR swallowed the same lie. I never swallowed the lie. Just never had a way to not be compelled to comply.

78 The Russians did it in under 20 years. The Russian Federation is still a work in progress of course, but a damn sight better than the Soviets were. Not really. The people aren't any freer and all the old bolsheviks are organized crime kingpins. Russia is experiencing hypermortality - the country is dying rapidly as people emigrate away. Its economy is weaker than Italy's.

79

I told my brother after this election that America is over.  In retrospect, it now seems to me that the Reagan revolt was just a brief respite on our long road to socialism that was begun under Teddy Roosevelt.   Democrats have successfully grown the government welfare programs to the point where there are more people who vote for a living than there are people who work for a living.  And the explosion of debt and seemingly permanent low interest rates have now convinced our politicians -- of both parties -- that they can in fact keep promising more and more largesse to everyone without making anyone pay for it. 

We all love to repeat Margaret Thatcher's comment that the only problem with socialism is that eventually you run out  of  other people's money.  But is that really true for America?  The USA is still the big dog and the rest of the world is the tail we wag.  If they stop paying our bills they are just shooting themselves. 

80 Our Behemoth state is already borrowing nearly half of what it spends, and our private sector is contracting under the weight of taxation and regulation. This is obviously unsustainable. We are just about where the Soviet Union was in 1989. So the question is, what will happen after the liberal model collapses in on itself? Historically, the next stage is either tyrannical fascism (Europe in the 1930′s) or dissolution (the USSR and Yugoslavia in the 1990′s). The latter course is definitely preferable, at least some parts of the former USA might have freedom.

81 75 Oy vey, I meant MORE difficult to preach. Sheesh.

82 So I take it that it is agreed that the Republican/Conservative voter turn out in the last election was optimal?  It would have to be in order for DrewM's thesis to be correct.  Otherwise, its not that the country is becoming more liberal but that the self declared conservative is becoming more apathetic.

83

"I just don't think there will be any "reforming" of anything until it all burns to the ground."

I think I agree with this. Reset is what will need to happen; unfortunately the last reset we had was WWII.

84 The Russians did it in under 20 years. The Russian Federation is still a work in progress of course, but a damn sight better than the Soviets were.

And sliding back, thanks to Putin and his puppets.

China is still the ChiComs.  Even if they're a slightly more "touchy-feely" type of ChiCom.

And Germany in the early 1900s was (largely) still working to find it's first national identity- Germany wasn't a unified country until the mid 1800s, IIRC.

More over, none of those involved a complete collapse of civil order.  I think we're looking at a complete collapse of civil order here, more along the lines of the fall of Rome than any of your examples.

85 @55 - Well, I'm a recovering former LP member myself. My principal criticism is they're little more than the part of The 3 P's - Pot, Prostitutes, and Pron. Now that may be a great plan for a long weekend but it's hardly a serious national political platform.

Yeah, they have a nice platform about "slashing government spending" and all that, but as an operational model, their candidates generally talk about The 3 P's early, often and almost exclusively.

Not many better options out there, I'm nominally a Constitution Party member but they're, well, tiny.

86 he may just be forced to rethink some of his biases. Someone from Marin? The stupid is very, very strong up there. I wouldn't bet on the "thinking" part.

87 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 10:52 AM (XkWWK)

Is it too early to start drinking?

It must be 5:00pm somewhere.

88 The latter course is definitely preferable, at least some parts of the former USA might have freedom. --- I think we'd have a better chance of it turning out well, if only because most industries are already in private hands and aren't being handed over to politically connected cronies *yet*. Give Maxine Waters et all a chance to write legislation though...

89 87 CBD: Drink up!

90 Soon I'll be selling flags bearing St. Andrew's Cross by the gross.  We are separating as a nation on Second Amendment grounds as well as other fundamental constitutional rights. 

91 Posted by: t-bird at January 16, 2013 10:55 AM (FcR7P)

I love Marin county. Rich liberals who will be the first to be eaten when the SHTF.

92 GOP=Lance Armstrong's now completely empty nutsack. 

93 Is it too early to start drinking? It must be 5:00pm somewhere. --- You have a choice between paying royalties or buying alcohol from my Parrot Bay line.

94 Maybe we're (GOP voters) the enablers.

95 Make the statists eat the failures they have created every chance you get, do not offer them comfort or aide, they will only take advantage of your good nature. Cut. Jibe. Print. Newsletter. (Oh, and print that on challenge coins so it can be carried daily)

96 "That's the problem with government — government is anonymous and so no one is accountable. The reason you want somebody to be accountable is that you don't want someone to make that decision again." 

97 One of the chief problems with libertarianism is libertarians. For people who ostensibly favor freedom, which must include the freedom to be wrong, they tend to be as off-puttingly authoritarian as the proggers. Deviant from the party-line and you are an instant pariah.

98 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 10:56 AM (XkWWK)

Speaking of that...how much of a pain in the ass is it to get to Hoboken from the City? WTC to Hoboken still isn't running.

99 88 Give Maxine Waters et all a chance to write legislation though... Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 16, 2013 10:56 AM (e0xKF) It's already baked into Dodd-Frank, at least for the financial sector. But I'm sure Justice Roberts will find a penumbra allowing the Fed to take over the Koch Bros. and sell it for a few shekels to Immelt, Gore and Buffet.

100

Rand Paul is Luap Nor's son.

 

BOOOOOOOSH. Kochtopus. George Soros. Illuminati.

101 GOP=Lance Armstrong's now completely empty nutsack. ^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^So Much This^^^^^^^^^^^

102 I never swallowed the lie. Just never had a way to not be compelled to comply.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 16, 2013 10:52 AM (GFM2b)
===================

True enough.  The only difference between Ponzi and FDR is that Ponzi didn't have the power to compel participation in his scam via taxation.

103 98 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 16, 2013 10:58 AM (GsoHv) PATH to Jersey City is still running, I think?

104 What the hell is all. this crybaby crap from Drew...?
He pisses on Mitt Romney and them blames everybody else because he lost.
Maybe he doesn't but I DO blame the GOP.
It was their job to recruit and to protect the vote and if they weren't so goddamed ashamed of the voters who gave them the House they might have had a better shot.

105 You are understating the responsibility of the Republicans in the current mess.

In 2004, for example, the Republicans could have seriously moved this country in a conservative direction. They refused.

And for the last 20 years or so the Republicans have only offered watered down Democrat policy (whatever they claim while running).

This helped move the Overton window dramatically left.

Being an echo instead of a choice may work in the short term, but the long term results have been catastrophic.

106 It must be 5:00pm somewhere. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 16, 2013 10:55 AM (GsoHv) Kinshasha West Africa http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

107

One of the chief problems with libertarianism is libertarians. For people who ostensibly favor freedom, which must include the freedom to be wrong, they tend to be as off-puttingly authoritarian as the proggers. Deviant from the party-line and you are an instant pariah.

 

Bullshit. The only line you can't deviate from as a libertarian is the Non-Agression Principle.

 

Deviate from that and you're a pariah. Don't, and you're in no matter if some cliques like it or not.

108 #93  It's never too early-or late for Boehner, the bleary eyed drunk.  Known Capitol Hill pub crawler---with the very expensive haircut. 

109 Came across this Peggy Noonan blog about Jack Lew's signature. Floating in this pool of drivel is one particular booger of interest (see, I can use metaphors just like Peggy does): "Half of America thinks the country is broke,". I must conclude that the other half does not believe so. Is our bottom line something that is determined by polls or by arithmetic? Which half is living in the matrix? It seems Peggy is living in a little matrix all her own. I checked her bio and was impressed to learn she was a consultant for "West Wing". Born in Brooklyn and now living in an apartment on the Upper East Side. Alternate universes now have zip codes.

http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/01/14/jack-lews-signature/

110 //Well, I'm a recovering former LP member myself. My principal criticism is they're little more than the part of The 3 P's - Pot, Prostitutes, and Pron.//

Well, quite possibly, but it's better than being the party of some lite version of whatever the Democrats are supporting, which is basically what the GOP is. I'll take my chances. And why not? We're going to be under a permanent Democrat majority for some time to come anyway. The LPs might, in that time, be able to emerge as genuine, pro-liberty, alternative. Maybe they'll even have candidates who can rebut obviously fraudulent talking points, and string to coherent sentences together. So far, the GOP has Ted Cruz and... yeah, pretty much just Ted Cruz. Rand has been kind of silent since he was elected two years ago.

111 82 So I take it that it is agreed that the Republican/Conservative voter turn out in the last election was optimal? It would have to be in order for DrewM's thesis to be correct. Otherwise, its not that the countryis becoming more liberal but that the self declared conservative is becoming more apathetic. Posted by: polynikes at January 16, 2013 10:53 AM (m2CN7) ---- But this is why I was so mad at the Libertarian "Romney's no different" crowd. Of course turnout wasn't optimal, but where do you think it will be after 4 more years of shithead in office with a media that doesn't even care to pretend anymore? And what if we lose another supreme court justice or two from the conservative end? The whole point of holding your nose for Romney wasn't that you thought he'd be any good, but that it was a chance to begin to turn things around after all the awfulness of Obama. LIB may be the only option now, but it should have always been a last resort due to the historical examples of the terrible stuff that happens when everything does burn. Hint: It's usually not the conservative/Libertarian types who get into power...

112 Deviant from the party-line and you are an instant pariah. Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 16, 2013 10:58 AM (evdj2) This is no different from the GOP. At least the Libertarian Party would appreciate the love, albeit temporarily.

113 108 #93 It's never too early-or late for Boehner, the bleary eyed drunk. Known Capitol Hill pub crawler---with the very expensive haircut. Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 16, 2013 11:00 AM (wbmaj) So he's the ugly version of John Edwards?

114 And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Perhaps, we need to make this a requirement of office for our federal government.

Posted by: Benjamin Rush at January 16, 2013 10:52 AM (e8kgV)

***********

As a contracts manager, I have been sorely tempted to end contract Signature Documents with those words. Make 'em think before they sign.

115 @110 May your journey with the LP be more fruitful than was mine, Mr. Estrada!

Cheers -

116 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 10:59 AM (XkWWK)

But nobody wants to go to Jersey City for a Moron Meetup!

33rd St. to Hoboken is running. Is that too out of the way?

117 Your arguments are far too intellectual.  In an affluence country with no visible problems (the debt problem is not visible) people vote according to fashion, i.e. according to what their sex organs tell them.  The only way for the Republicans to win is to get a bunch of sexy people to say they are going to vote Republican, or if the Democrats all become fat and ugly.

118 Many voters are conservatively natured but the MFM is putting them to sleep.

The Left Media Monopoly must be broken in the burning.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 16, 2013 10:33 AM (evdj2)

The Mfm plays a huge part of this shit. They lie all the day long about the intentions of the progressives actions. while they simultaneously, tell the citizens if you don't agree with what you see you are an extremist. Even to the if you are unemployed  and broke you should be grateful for the experience.

I have noticed with many former associates that otherwise are conservative in their personal lives : from overreach of govt to reliance on  other , hate the fact t citizens on the dole , with no hope of getting off, would agree with temp aid for those that fell on hard luck, but are aggravated by the  personal 'lifestyle' choice. Would like to see many citizens become self reliant  for the good of them personally and society at large. YET because they are union tribal won't vote  anything but Dem  . Ever.

Then of course we have many state, city, other workers also union.

so it goes back to the i might  say and live mainly   conservative but i want my bennies/ pension plan, 3 percent raises every year/ great health care . etc.

119 Drew said: "We need to stop trying to change the GOP and begin to change the American people. How can we do this?"

Well for starters, we could stop legally importing a million new voters every year who vote 3-1 Democrat. Return immigration to pre-1965 levels.

120 I have a better idea that will probably have more impact.

Play video games, don't let yourself be bullied in conversations by coffee house democrats go to a school board meeting and ask why Bill Ayers is picking your school's syllabus.

Drew if the GOP cannot give me anything other than "we are not Ogabe" after 25 years of effort....

I have literally wasted more than half my life.

"thanks"

121 Maybe he doesn't but I DO blame the GOP. Honestly, they're a center-left party. Have been for a generation or longer. All this did was make it blindingly obvious. It wasn't out of character for them. If anything, Reagan was.

122 116 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 10:59 AM (XkWWK) But nobody wants to go to Jersey City for a Moron Meetup! 33rd St. to Hoboken is running. Is that too out of the way? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 16, 2013 11:02 AM (GsoHv) I can pick it up at 9th Street or Christopher Street. Not a problem.

123 In the end the people are to blame, but when the GOP offers little different than the DNC there is no reason to vote for them. Do you remember when the GOP controlled Congress and the White House? Were they fiscally conservative? Nope! Because the people have acted like children for decades America will crash instead of coming to a soft landing.

124 #113  Yes, he is.  But I think their haircuts cost the same--about $400.00

125 It wasn't out of character for them. If anything, Reagan was.

And he drove the GOP kicking and screaming into true conservatism during his terms.

126 gak, wall of text, sorry.

127 124 #113 Yes, he is. But I think their haircuts cost the same--about $400.00 Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 16, 2013 11:04 AM (wbmaj) From Silky Pony to Silky nag.

128 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 11:03 AM (XkWWK)

Well, then I think Hoboken is still the best choice for a meet. I'll send out an e-mail in the next week or so.

129 IMHO, all this will accomplish is making sure that New England can put up a Berlin Wall to keep its people from fleeing to the Tex-iana Alliance once the shit hits the fan.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 16, 2013 10:39 AM (e0xKF)

 

You'd better let me through Checkpoint Charlie!

130 3 Dave G,

The beauty of Federalism was that it was in theory a way for the "better voters" to show that their ideas were better.

the more concentrated we've allowed the money cannon to become the less pain is felt by states for idiocy.

Detroit is the order of magnitude of idiocy an electorate MUST engage in to finally be told by king Math "no means no."

They still are not getting the message.

Run red, fight for the Xth amendment, elect the best you can, stop giving money to the national if your values won't allow it and finally and not lightly lay the groundwork for secession if need be.

131 Deviant from the party-line and you are an instant pariah.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 16, 2013 10:58 AM (evdj2)

This is no different from the GOP. At least the Libertarian Party would appreciate the love, albeit temporarily.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 16, 2013 11:01 AM (FsUAO)

 

To me that it no different than the pure conservative position.  Deviate in the smallest of matters contrary to what they believe is the only true conservative position and you are instantly labeled a RINO.  I've seen the most conservative of Republicans labeled as a RINOs when they deviated.

132 And sliding back, thanks to Putin and his puppets.

Putin polls very well these days (in the 70% range).  Mostly because he has managed to produce the progress people wanted, and has pretty vigorously attacked govt corruption.  The old Bolsheviks have been marginalized to insignificance.

Putin 2013 is not Putin 2004.

The Russian Federation has a flat 13% income tax.
flat 20% corporate tax, and 18% VAT.  That's a lower overall tax burden that the US has by quite a bit...and their unemployment is in the 5-6% range.

133 What ever happened to Beaver (Paul Ryan)?  I mean, ever since Wally lost, I haven't seen him or heard from him. 

134 Honestly, they're a center-left party. Have been for a generation or longer. All this did was make it blindingly obvious. It wasn't out of character for them. If anything, Reagan was.

Bravo - well stated.

The GOP has been a center-left part since, at least, the beat-down Goldwater suffered in 1965. But even then there were plenty of "Republicans for Johnson" so the seeds were probably sewn long, long before even then.

Personally, I blame the first "activist" President - Hoover.

135 Life is a lot better once you stop lying to yourself and realize that yes, we are fucked. 100+ trillion in unfunded liabilities with no stopping our spending in sight.

136 gak, wall of text, sorry.

Posted by: ette at January 16, 2013 11:05 AM (nqBYe)

Ahem.....

137 To me that it no different than the pure conservative position. Deviate in the smallest of matters contrary to what they believe is the only true conservative position and you are instantly labeled a RINO. I've seen the most conservative of Republicans labeled as a RINOs when they deviated.

^ RINO!

138 Rand has been kind of silent since he was elected two years ago. Posted by: Mr. Estrada at January 16, 2013 11:00 AM (qmOgr) No he hasn't. Just because he isn't throwing firebombs like Allen West doesn't mean he hasn't been trying to get pro-freedom bills passed and raising a ruckus when King Obama tries to subvert the Constitution.

139

Leadership:  The GOP primary system isn't producing candidates with leadership ability.

Charisma:  Same as above.  Obama has no leadership ability but good charisma.  People actually think he is fiscally moderate to conservative.

Messaging:  What's the GOP message?  I don't know.  "I'm going to cut spending and take your cookies" isn't a good message.  Where's the freedom and liberty message?  With one exception (abortion), the GOP supports more liberty in almost every facet of life.

 

140 What about midtown Manhattan or the Village for a meet-up? With the new and improved gun control, it's even safer!

141 And he drove the GOP kicking and screaming into true conservatism during his terms. No, they went along with the ride grudgingly. Please note the immediate reversion to form in '88. Otherwise Reagan would have handed the torch to, say, Kemp, and we'd be in a different place today.

142 133 What ever happened to Beaver (Paul Ryan)? I mean, ever since Wally lost, I haven't seen him or heard from him

He's trying to recover from the loss - of the election and his gravitas.

143

Reagan would be labeled a RINO or Dem Lite if his administration was judged by today's pure conservative's standards. 

144 They you are what you eat.  Did Obama just eat dog or was it dogshit? 

145 >>So far, the GOP has Ted Cruz and...

Not going to hitch my hopes and dreams to Cruz.  I supported Cruz in every way I could during the primary because the alternative was Doomhurst, but Cruz is still just a slimy lawyer politician.

146 125 Wyatt Earp,


Yup and without the American people's pride in our system and joy at our mission I do not think he would have happened.

Reagan without the Bear was a non starter, and the Multi-Culti Moonbat NEA death cult will not allow US pride to ever happen again.

The key is for us to run Red exert control on our schools locally, tell even the states "no means no" on moonbattery.

Act the fuck up and misbehave.

It gave a glib borderline retard the keys to the kingdom.

147 Personally, I blame the first "activist" President - Hoover.

Posted by: DocJ at January 16, 2013 11:06 AM (V20sy)

Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson might argue about that designation.

148 Posted by: ette at January 16, 2013 11:05 AM (nqBYe)

Ahem.....

Posted by: The Barrel at January 16, 2013 11:06 AM (GsoHv)

but, but, it is Cold in There! and and i have a cold, and can't breathe and , well

i'll never do it again!

or try not to ever do it again.

o hell,   shiver.

jump.

149 Not going to hitch my hopes and dreams to Cruz. I supported Cruz in every way I could during the primary because the alternative was Doomhurst, but Cruz is still just a slimy lawyer politician.

Then you're looking at virtually NO viable POTUS candidates in 2016.

Let. It. Burn.

150 At least he should be fun to mock. And if you do it enough (since Liberals hate being mocked above all other things), he may just be forced to rethink some of his biases.  Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 16, 2013 10:48 AM (/eBe

No, he is not fun at all.  He has zero sense of humor.  He is impossible to mock.  He is also sort of Hispanic (adopted--so he really does not know) and constantly hints that he is mistreated here in Tulsa because he has a darker complexion.  With my company's emphasis on DIVERSITY and his law background, he would love to have an excuse for a bias or discrimination complaint.  He will argue anything until your ears bleed.  He sits with the three older Liberals on my team including my ultra Liberal supervisor.  They all just love each other.  He is so smart that he managed to go through his third of the free and clear house in Marin that he and his siblings inherited from his Dad by doing day trading to the point of bankruptcy.  His credit cards are maxed out.  He and his wife were trying to flip a house in Tulsa with her doing the work on it while schlepping their four rugrats to the work site last summer in the heat.  It was so hot that she had to park the kids in the minivan and run the A/C while she painted or hammered--at almost $4 dollars a gallon of gas.  Oh, yes, he is a joy.  They ran out of money, so the house just sits there until they can scrape up the money to somehow "finish" it.

The best part of all of it...he can sit there in his threadbare and saggy khakis and think he is so damn smart...but thinking it does not make it so.

151 #142  Beaver needs some Eddie Haskell lessons. 

152 143 Polynikes,

Reagan would not.

That Reagan did what he did facing Tippy O'neill is a testament to his problems.

Ye donks are allowed to lurch towards Marxism we are not allowed to hold on to even fiscal sense let alone sanity.

Time to hit the reset button if need be.

153 We are fucked.

154 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjrthOPLAKM

155 147 CBD,

"Don't forget about us!"

//Andy jackson and "honest" Abe

156 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 16, 2013 11:07 AM (XkWWK)

It's easy for me, but some of the NJ Morons might find it difficult to get into the city.

Any ideas for a location? And...you are welcome to organize it; I'll forward the e-mails for you to the NY/NJ list.

157 I admire Vladimir Putin; he loves his country and he does what he thinks is in his country's best interest, and he doesn't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks. Wish we had a president with any of those characteristics.

158 @147 - Touche

Aside, I really don't understand the reverence TR gets from GOP circles.

159 He's trying to recover from the loss - of the election and his gravitas.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at January 16, 2013 11:07 AM (Agn5J)

-----

That..... and hiding from Eddie Barrack Haskell.

160 Jindal looks alright. Rand is still my guy. But you're kidding yourself if you think even a solid conservative president would change much. It'll take generations to change the American people's minds.

161 Born in Brooklyn and now living in an apartment on the
Upper East Side. Alternate universes now have zip codes.



Drunk before Noonan has to be within a car service drive to the Morning Schmoe set where she can have people believe she's Meeka's dotty mother with a bad facelift.

162 In the span of only 40 years Germany went from Kaiser, to dysfunctional Wiemar, to Hitler, to modern Germany.

No one's going to bomb the shit out of us to get TFG's puppetmasters out of power.

163 138 HoboJerky,

Yeah and helping dear old dad fuck the GOP as a hobby for its own sake.

Rand Paul may become my next hobby as far as donations goes.

164 Being an echo instead of a choice may work in the short term, but the long term results have been catastrophic.

Depends on how you define "working" and "results."

As Drew said (and I'm not sure how you can argue against this premise): A Politician's first goal is to continue to be a politician.  That means getting reelected.  Everything else, to them, is subordinate.  Oh, there are a few who reject that, but most of them got into politics because it was easy work that was indoors.

They are (as a rule) a wholly self-centered and selfish lot.  As such, they don't care much about each other.  It doesn't matter to Congressional Republicans that there aren't more of them, or that there isn't a Republican President.  Their power and perks are pretty well guaranteed- many of them for life.

You can't complain when a man doesn't want to be on fire, and you can't complain when a Politician doesn't want to be unemployed. 

Politicians vote for what they think will get them reelected.  I appreciate Jim Demint, not because he was conservative, but because he's resigning, which shows that he wasn't being conservative because it got him reelected.

165 Andy jackson
___
What he did to the Indians was terrible. I'm still surprised that they sell us delicious Slurpees after what he did.

166
I generally agree with Drew on this one, but one note:  I want the Republican Party to stop saying they are conservative.  No I don't expect to get that.

But upon that miracle happening, it sure would help our cause.

167 The GOP sucks compared to Reagan era, but it's still loads better than it was in the Nixon/Ford days. These things go in cycles. Reagan was for all intents and purposes the first "conservative" president since Calvin Coolidge. Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford were all pretty liberal. The idealized "GOP of the past" didnt really exist.

168 That..... and hiding from Eddie Barrack Haskell.

I love how the GOP "leadership" sits by and watches Obama trash them at every turn, but rarely - if ever - responds with a presser or other public (televised) statement.  Bunch of eunuchs.

169 162 Ms Radish,

Correct and we are not going to have a marshall plan offered to us, nor the unfettered growth of the USSR to Russia.

"Our" commies hate industry.

170 When we sit here online and enable the destruction of our conservative hopefuls by joining in with the trolls and plants in bashing them, we are never going to win anything. Public unity and private maneuvering win elections, not circular firing squads. These days, we only win by dumb luck or safe districts...then our betters gerrymander or bash real conservative firebrands out the door. We cannot win a long game using the methods we are using.

171 or if the Democrats all become fat and ugly. Ted Kennedy & Michael Moore fat & ugly?

172 Political parties and politicians are about winning elections. To me, this is the fundamental disconnect between, well, me and current politics. For a very long time, the point of politics has been winning for the sake of winning. I blathered about this yesterday, but what is the point of winning and obtaining some small measure of power if you are not going to use that power to attempt to accomplish a goal. Look, my motto is the point of having power is to abuse it but underneath the snark there is some theory, that theory being that I want to obtain power in order to achieve a result. Power should be a tool, not an end unto itself. Once power is its own reward, we end up where we are. As far as practical suggestions, I do not know. I know that I do try to explain to people why what they know about Social Security is wrong and why I want a smaller government and why I think the Department of Agriculture should be beset by rabid wolverines. Sadly, there is far too much nodding in agreement right up to the point I touch upon something that person wants. Then it's no no no don't take my stuff. It's to the point where I can barely be civil when discussing politics and so I just don't with people who live outside the magic box. It takes too much not to start screaming "stop stealing my fucking money you pathetic little twat" when talking to people after the service in church. Well. I'm just a bundle of cheery joy today. Here. Have this baaaaby lamb in recompense. http://bit.ly/jWTzdm

173 A Politician's first goal is to continue to be a politician. That means getting reelected. Everything else, to them, is subordinate.
***
You'll note that the left has managed to make the two things synonymous.

Deviate from the leftwing line more than absolutely necessary to get elected and they toss you.

Follow the line, and even if you do lose the election they will handsomely reward you afterwards.

174 principles boy, principles I tell ya.

175 or if the Democrats all become fat and ugly.

Barbara Mikulski just e-mailed to say she's free this Saturday and will pick you up at seven.

176

I know it's been mentioned, but you're not changing ANYONE'S hearts or minds any time soon without    taking back the schools and taking back the media.   There can be no progress until those institutions are ripped away from the    regressives and all of their fetid stink is removed.    We need more conservatives to become not just teachers, but more importantly administrators,   superintendents, and Dept of Ed commissioners at the state level,   not to mention   professors,   deans and college presidents at the postsecondary level.  

 

And the school boards -- it cna never be said enough how we need to re-take the school boards.

 

As for media,   I seriously wish to God I knew the first thing about starting a successful viral campaign.  I don't have the money or the talent or the time to undertake a huge media blitz, but I would do whatever I can to infiltrate and instigate via viral pathways.

177 or if the Democrats all become fat and ugly.

I'm not fat...

178 170 SurferDoc,

Like I said SD I am about to have my moment of clarity on politics I'd wager.

25 years of being a good GOP boyscout and backing the party no matter how far she strayed from me.

No matter how lean it got until the year my finances imploded I sent *something.*

I went into inner city schools and gave JA classes on capitalism, I talk to people, I canvassed.

They cave on fiscal sense, the bill of rights, AND foreign policy...

"why have a GOP?"

The media is defacto controlling the nation and that was not figured into the bill of rights at this level of pervasiveness ANY more than moonbats think "the evil rifles" were.

Something is gonna give, and frankly I am thinking that flag would look a LOT better with fewer stars.

179

Posted by: sven10077 at January 16, 2013 11:10 AM (LRFds)

 

sorry sven but he would.  Signing the Amnesty Bill,  having a deficit higher than W when compared to GDP, Sandra Day OConnor / Kennedy, Losing seats in Congress during his administration,  Bugging out of Lebannon, Not eliminating the Dept of Education as promised, compromising with O'Neil and a number of smaller issues that listing would be gilding the lily. 

 

That said, I have no problem considering him one of the greatest Presidents ever and the greatest conservative President ever.   But I'm not a 'pure' conservative so I can look at the overall record and effect.  

180 The Republican party's problem (it's no longer a "grand" party) is that it cannot explain its principles to the average voter in a way that the average voter can understand.

181 "In the end the best way to win an election is to give a majority of the people in the electorate what they want."

Or, I think the GOP or its successor needs to be like Steve Jobs: he never did marketing research, he created products that people did not even know they wanted until they saw them.

Reagan did that. He presented ideas and solutions that people wanted, only after he led them there.

But the present GOP won't do it. They are in it for the money and power and run around like a long suffering wife trying to save her alcoholic husband from getting fired for not showing up.

I note PJTV is starting a Next Generation program. It's a start.

182 Something is gonna give, and frankly I am thinking that flag would look a LOT better with fewer stars.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 16, 2013 11:18 AM (LRFds)

 

 

Myself, me and I agree.

183 it cannot explain its principles to the average voter in a way that the average voter can understand.

The average voter rejects them anyway.

184 Fukkin-A right I'm a conservative, and I support smaller government. Thats why Imma gonma vote for the fucking communist. Duh.

185

Leo Durocher:  Nice guys finish last. 

Nailed it. 

186
but what is the point of winning and obtaining some small measure of power if you are not going to use that power to attempt to accomplish a goal.

See now, I have been kicking myself for about a year and half now for not figuring our earlier that their goal (most DC politicians) is to enrich themselves, their families and friends.  So they are accomplishing that goal.

How quaint of me to believe a small majority cared about America, when maybe 5% actually do.

187 The GOP is so fucking gelded that Slick is out joking about Muffer Clot'em Stalin's "injury" being a fucking joke that didn't impede his cooter snagging at the Golden Globes.  Incredible that he's out making jokes related to her never having to answer for the deaths in Benghazi.

188 I'll throw in with the MFM is our biggest problem crowd. Friend of mine from Boston was around during Thanksgiving. He's relatively intelligent, fiscally conservative, was shocked that I wasn't pleased that Obama won. I asked him if he even gave a shit about trillion dollar deficits, to which he said it was the nation's most pressing issue. He even offered up that SS/Medicare need to be seriously reformed. My jaw dropped. So entitlement reform is one of your most important issues, yet you passed on competent money manager Romney and entitlement reformer Paul Ryan for Obama? Well yeah. You do know that Paul Ryan has been pushing reforms similar to what you've just described, right? Nope, I'm wrong and lying, he said, obviously he would have heard about that if it were true. When I asked where in the hell he gets his news from, he responded that he likes to get a variety of opinions so he reads the NYT, Boston Globe, WaPo, and occasionaly scans the WSJ. In other words, he's clueless.

189 Andy jackson ___ What he did to the Indians was terrible. I'm still surprised that they sell us delicious Slurpees after what he did. Those are dots, not feathers Joey. Here. Here's some tastey paste. Good boy.

190 "We"?  Drew, this isn't a GOP/Dem problem - this is a Ruling Class vs. Plebes confrontation.  The people of this country cannot - and will not - sit out the "next several elections" while the Ruling Class continues to plunder their pensions, their SS, their real estate, and their financial assets. The Dems, with their media allies, have done a pretty good job, so far, with their political decapitation schemes.  This hand-wringing on your part is exactly what they want.  "We" can help matters now by working on the state level to promote conservatives to the governorships and legislative offices.  And send money to the Heritage Foundation and the NRA.

191 or if the Democrats all become fat and ugly.

I'm not fat...

---

We are not ugly. 

Janets Reno & Napolitano, Madeliene Albright, Helen Thomas, Hillary Clinton, Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor.

192 Ace has been part of the problem. Conservatism is uncomfortable to ninnies that need the approval of polite society. Ron Paul is a racist, crazy, mean old isolationist derp! Hey look at me, I'm Ace! Ron Paul is dangerous! David Frum, call me?

193 167 Posted by: BSR: Live from Falls Church at January 16, 2013 11:12 AM (CBCxo) Lest anyone forget, it was Nixon that gave us the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) and of course the ever-popular EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). He also enacted wage and price controls unilaterally. The guy did almost as much damage as LBJ.

194 If the left, in a conservative country, claims that it was the conservative policies of the past that got us here in the first place, without any rebuttal by GOP leaders, it doesn't matter that the country is conservative. In 2012, a sufficient amount of Obama's 51% voted against George 'Mitt' Bush. It didn't have to be that way if the GOP had not ceded the left's phoney argument.

195
IMHO.... which isnt worth much.....  Im not sure conservatism's path to redemption runs through DC.   That path runs through the states.... the governors houses, state houses and mayors offices.

The most effective pushback against Obamacare was by suits brought  the states.  The biggest blows against Public Unions were delivered by governors.   Whether you are pro choice or pro life..... undeniably the biggest push back against abortion on demand have occurred at the State level.

Im not saying conservatism at the federal level is a totally lost cause.... but ..... we have had some important victories over battles fought outside of DC.

196

Posted by: mugiwara at January 16, 2013 11:22 AM (W7ffl)

 

 

 

 

He's me!

197

>>>it cannot explain its principles to the average voter in a way that the average voter can understand.

 

"We want OUR cronies to get the payola" How hard is that?

198 We live in a generation that was brought up on "The Credit you Deserve," and "Have it Your Way," and "You Deserve {insert stupid thing here}," and "Buy more to save more!"

And we expect them to respect frugality, personal responsibility, and a good work ethic?

What's that C.S. Lewis Quote: "We raise men without chests, and expect bravery?"

199 This hand-wringing on your part is exactly what they want. "We" can help matters now by working on the state level to promote conservatives to the governorships and legislative offices. And send money to the Heritage Foundation and the NRA.  Posted by: mrp at January 16, 2013 11:23 AM (HjPtV)

Concentrate on your state and local election boards.  Another part of Dim success is that we just allow them to control all big city elections by fraud.  In every Blue state, there are large cities that decide the vote.

200 Barbara Mikulski has the brain of a planarian and the body of a shmoo.

201

Posted by: Mopac at January 16, 2013 11:23 AM (bEWjs)

 

 

 

 

What you just said isn't worth a damn. Bullshit,pure and simple.

202 188 Mugiwara,

it is like the joke the moonbats used to snark on about texans.

"sophisticated moonbat character to big titted blonde Texan": You like any music?

"BTBT to Moonbat" Sure we do we have both kinds COUNTRY AND WESTERN!

Yeah well folks Foxnews be damned because its news team is pretty moonbatty if you are watching the media you are being fed Obama's cum.

203 There are certain ideas which, having been adopted, guaranteed our doom.  Among these ideas is the 24th amendment's notion that non-taxpayers ought to have a say in the makeup of the government.


I believe that no form of government can survive when people who do not pay for it get to demand services from it.

204 I do not believe this is a conservative country anymore.

205 Posted by: Mopac at January 16, 2013 11:23 AM (bEWjs)

Does the paste taste good?

206 204 I do not believe this is a conservative country anymore. Posted by: thunderb at January 16, 2013 11:25 AM (ci7xR) I don't know about conservative, but it sure as hell ain't America any more.

207 alex tea.

let's feel better.



shoes
 
or   http://tinyurl.com/afzxtay

208 Something is gonna give, and frankly I am thinking that flag would look a LOT better with fewer stars. Thirteen stars on it. To be exact. In an X pattern.

209 I believe that no form of government can survive when people who do not pay for it get to demand services from it.

So good, I just tweeted it.

210 Great post. This is the converse side to Milton Friedman's belief that we don't need good politicians who want to do the right thing we need to make doing the right thing politically profitiable for the even the wrong politicians.

211 192 Mopac,

To a degree perhaps, and hell am I at fault at 16 years old when I FINALLY was asked what i thought was important by the people I was volunteering for I answered "besides stopping Russia I'd get gays marrying off the table and give them maybe some compromise form so we can peel them off the democrats base."

Fact is we may have to mainstream some real assholes I do not like to gain back a vibrant caucus.

212 We need more conservatives to become not just teachers, but more importantly administrators, superintendents, and Dept of Ed commissioners at the state level,not to mention professors, deans and college presidents at the postsecondary level. Way back when Polly was just an egg and I was considering getting a PhD in Poli Sci and starting the long slog to be a professor, my advisor sat me down and told me point blank that I would starve to death. Why? Because even if I could find someone to support my dissertation work, no university would hire a female conservative. Since I refused to play the game of sit down and shut up and get the degree and get the job and oh by the way only publish Approved Thoughts, the end result would be starving in the street. Color me a bit cynical that we can ever retake the schools and universities.

213 There is no scenario where the current system does not collapse. Move to a safer place and prepare.

214 194 If the left, in a conservative country, claims that it was the conservative policies of the past that got us here in the first place, without any rebuttal by GOP leaders, it doesn't matter that the country is conservative. In 2012, a sufficient amount of Obama's 51% voted against George 'Mitt' Bush. It didn't have to be that way if the GOP had not ceded the left's phoney argument. Posted by: Ed at January 16, 2013 11:23 AM (7U7hA) THIS - and by agreeing that the "rich" should pay more in taxes, Boehner agreed with them and allowed the left to re-write history (and reality) going forward. But we shouldn't attack the GOP and the leadership.

215 208 RickB223,

I am a lot more loyal to the founding principles of this nation than that city on the swamp, and the flag.

If that makes me a traitor, make the best of it whatever comes next.

216 The Democrats have a compelling proposition that appeals to a lot of dumb voters: "We will take money away from people you don't like and spend it on you." It's very easy for a dumb voter to understand, the GOP counter-proposition, "We will offer you a chance to earn more and keep it" sounds too much like work.

217 GOP has been raped, stabbed and shot. Yet the party establishment is declaring it's only a flesh wound. They simply want more money and time. I told the last party hack that called that I am no longer identified with GOP. Someone will need to earn my next vote.

218 Posted by: polynikes at January 16, 2013 11:19 AM (m2CN7) I suspect Reagan would take our very dire deficit and debt problems more seriously than the current GOP. If he wouldn't, then he would not be particularly useful.

219
And again, the media denies the American people the ability to hear our side.  Topics which require a degree of thinking to comprehend do not lend themselves to simple sound bites like liberal ideas do.


"For the Children" may be a simple message,  but it is NOT an actual well-thought out answer to any sort of problem. 

220 What you just said isn't worth a damn. Bullshit,pure and simple. Posted by: maddogg at January 16, 2013 11:25 AM (OlN4e) Now, now, now, let's be fair. He did accurately describe Ron Paul.

221 Romney wasn't my first choice (Perry), but when you have Dems and the media (BIRM) freaking out about true statements like the GM plant closing, and Chrysler building Jeeps in China, or simple things no SANE person would have a problem with (binders of women applicants), YOU CANT WIN. The MFM is problem #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. If we can't get our message on the TV, it doesn't exist. Period. And the nice guy/adult act doesn't work. America now demands a fight, like Jersey Shore. Maybe Adam Baldwin can run next time. Animal Mother 2016!!

222 There is really no way out. No politician or party would ever get elected/reelected if they were honest about our financial situation. The dominoes will fall in this order: Japan, Europe and then us. It won't be pretty. The only result I see is a World War with the winner taking the spoils and the loser destitute. There has to be a reset and war is the way that will be accomplished. Listen to Kyle Bass for more on this.

223

182Something is gonna give, and frankly I am thinking that flag would look a LOT better with fewer stars.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 16, 2013 11:18 AM (LRFds)

 

Yup.  It wouldn't be necessary if Our Betters understood and abided by the 10th Ammendment.  But yup, time for a divorce.

 

Hey leftists, just think how happy you'll be to have us mean old  gun-toting, bill paying,  religious, and racist conservatives out of your lives forever.  You could go on fucking children (if you don't abort them first) in peace without hearing boo from us.  Win-win.

224 Son of a bitch. Now I'm pissed. "Oxygen halts development of 'All My Babies' Mamas' reality TV show" Don't know why this country is boned.

225 No one's going to bomb the shit out of us to get TFG's puppetmasters out of power

The "cold equations" are bombing us right now.  Almost every great empire that has fallen in the past was eroded from within.

226 Our true founding document is the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution is outline for a workable republic. It is a failure and to it I owe no loyalty.

227 I am a lot more loyal to the founding principles of this nation than that city on the swamp, and the flag. If that makes me a traitor, make the best of it whatever comes next. Amen.

228 212 AlexTheChick,

Yup.

"Now what?"

Well we have to go to the poor who will never get to go to that school and we need to take back the working poor and the disabled from the strawman that the left has built of us.

We need to do that by creating advocacy and intervention groups that show our flag and ARE soft partisan.

If I am being told by the national GOP I have to 'sacrifice my principles and accept that America has changed."

That to me does not mean I need to just shrug, I am against in principle using the community chest for transfer payments if I am to cave on that nationally perhaps I need to first cave on not playing patronage games locally.

It is time to outhustle the democrats and start breaking their mercenaries better than they are.

229

The Democrats have a compelling proposition that appeals to a lot of dumb voters: "We will take money away from people you don't like and spend it on you."

It's very easy for a dumb voter to understand, the GOP counter-proposition, "We will offer you a chance to earn more and keep it" sounds too much like work.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at January 16, 2013 11:29 AM (azHfB)

 

 

And as a follow up to my idiot fiscally conservative friend who thought Obama was the real entitlement reformer, after I got through ridiculing him, he came back with a, "well at least rich people are going to pay higher taxes." I asked him if screwing people who make more money than him will make his life better in any conceivable way. He finally gave up on the political discussions after that.

230 I do think that conservatives though need to ask themselves what their goal is with respect to electoral politics.

Do we want to run people that simply pontificate on how things "should be" that we know are going to lose?  Or do we want to agree on a few core issues that are enough to at least point the nation in a sustainable trajectory?

An example is someone like Rick Perry saying Social Security is a big Ponzi scheme.  Yes, I agree with that, but what good would it do for Republican to run on that and lose in a landslide?  It only pulls us in a more socialist direction because it elects more and more liberal Democrats.

We're never going to have a perfect government or perfect politicians, but I'll take a moderate Republican, even one as RINO as say Scott Brown over a Marxist like Obama any day.

231 Here's an idea. Political advertising now almost uniformly consists of emotional appeals, because emotions are easier to tap into than intellect. But EVERYONE is sick of the carpetbombing that happens in closely contested races. So, what if some Party were to run a timely series of short political ads that simply, clearly, and honestly showed how these emotional appeals are crafted, and why they are dangerous? (Hint: emotional appeals allow politicians to get elected without talking about real problems or real solutions) Using modern advertising techniques, point out an emotional advertising trick, point out a glaring inconsistency it glosses over (media bias/ignorance, spending, platform stupidity, whatever) and the lack of content the technique enables, and then fade to black on "Think about it." DON"T advertise for the party (except to say "paid for by the X Party" at the end). Call the campaign "Truth in Advertising," or something. The refreshing contrast alone might get more people to tune in. We must enlist as much of the public as we can, even at this late date, if we are to have any chance against the forces currently in power. Remember, most of the population is sick of politics as usual, but they have also given up because they have been brainwashed by our media and educational system. Teaching through BROADCAST advertising—using propaganda techniques to cultivate resistance against propaganda techniques—may be our last best chance. If we still have one.

232 Breaking news - 7 Americans grabbed by Alqueda in Algeria

233 White House quadruples number of signatures required on petitions for official response...


because SHUT UP PROLES



at drudge

234 #223  St. Andrew's Cross. 

235 Guys, THIS is a thread. Matt Yglesias says the president's kids are more important than yours: http://tinyurl.com/byxo7mz

236 Do we want to run people that simply pontificate on how things "should be" that we know are going to lose? Or do we want to agree on a few core issues that are enough to at least point the nation in a sustainable trajectory?

I dunno.  Do you want to die on your feet standing on hill, or on your knees beside a ditch?

237 And as a follow up to my idiot fiscally conservative friend who thought Obama was the real entitlement reformer, after I got through ridiculing him, he came back with a, "well at least rich people are going to pay higher taxes." I asked him if screwing people who make more money than him will make his life better in any conceivable way. He finally gave up on the political discussions after that.

Posted by: mugiwara at January 16, 2013 11:34 AM (W7ffl)

------

When my discussions with any of our liberal brethren get that far..... usually epithets and name calling ensues.

238 The brand has been damaged. The squishy, approval seeking, I wanna be kool folks are not going to "admit" they are conservative. No way. What is interesting, when I interact with the younger set who would never in a zillion years embrace conservatism, they still apply conservative principles to their daily lives, esp if parents. There has to be a way to get them to have their David Mamet moment. Watching Jon Stewart won't help. Watching a conservative Jon Stewart might.

239 We're never going to have a perfect government or perfect politicians, but I'll take a moderate Republican, even one as RINO as say Scott Brown over a Marxist like Obama any day. Posted by: McAdams at January 16, 2013 11:34 AM (lybWs) This is why you fail.

240 I know Lets blame the site's democrat for the GOP being teh suck Sniff sniff

241 My Obama-worshipping father who watches nothing but MSNBC considers himself a "true conservative". He also likes the idea of Communism, wants all guns banned, and loathes religion, Republicans, and the greedy rich.  Since he retired from the UAW, he's no fun to be around...

242 232 Breaking news - 7 Americans grabbed by Alqueda in Algeria Posted by: Vic at January 16, 2013 11:35 AM (53z96) I hope they voted for SCOAMF.

243 Why is it that Canada has managed to mend its fiscal ways and now, even with national health, is booming?

They cut spending and ended programs. They don't have government mortgages. When they were going broke, they fixed it.

Do we think of ourselves as "too big to fail"?  Why can't we do it?

244 An example is someone like Rick Perry saying Social Security is a big Ponzi scheme. Yes, I agree with that, but what good would it do for Republican to run on that and lose in a landslide? It only pulls us in a more socialist direction because it elects more and more liberal Democrats. When it does finally fall apart - like Ponzi schemes do - people may say, 'you know, that Rick Perry was right. He should be president.' Reagan called the Soviet Union an Evil Empire. Quite a few Republicans and all the Democrats were horrified. But it needed to be said, because it was true.

245 Posted by: Navycopjoe at January 16, 2013 11:37 AM (YcOel)

I still think you're just a Republican in denial.

246 240 NCJ,

Yeah well NCJ...

nevermind I like you too much.

I'll miss you when we're gone.

247 #232  Libya, Mali, Somalia, Algeria....The Caliphate is taking from and has alreay spread well into Western Europe.  I fear the Crusaders will arrive too late. 

248 Maybe its time to shuck the label and litmus test, and try to build a majority issue by issue. And this means not letting the MFM pick the issue for us.

249 243 PJ,

Canada is socialist at heart with a capitalist habit.

We are self-avowed capitalists with a communist habit.

next?

250 245. I'm a cubs and bears fan My whole life is denial

251 The problem with GOP "conservatism" is evident right here in this post. Note that the author's definition of "conservatism" begins and ends with government spending. No mention of so-called "social" issues, which are the actual root cause of our problems. How about this: A conservative country wouldn't try to force its women into the workforce and delay or forgo childbirth rather than encouraging them to raise families. A conservative country wouldn't allow 40 million aliens from all four corners of the earth to replace its native population. A conservative country wouldn't adopt various and sundry policies to bend over backwards for various dysfunctional minorities (blacks, gays, etc) and essentially let them dictate policy to the productive and healthy core of the population. The GOP's problem is that almost all of its milquetoast commentators like the author of this post have been too cowardly for the past 50 years to confront any of these issues, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. But no, let's talk more about government spending.

252 Even a candidate as flawed, unattractive, and venal as Lizzie Warren was able to oust Scott Brown--because in the final analysis, Massachusetts would rather have a real Dim instead of a faux Dim, even if that Dim was easily proven to have huckstered their vaunted Harvard by pretending to be a minority.  She cheerfully f@cked two of MassAss most cherished ideals--Harvard and minority entitlements and yet they elected her.

BTW, thanks ever so much, Mass for taking Lizzie off our hands...Oklahoma.

253 "This is the converse side to Milton Friedman's belief that we don't need good politicians who want to do the right thing we need to make doing the right thing politically profitiable for the even the wrong politicians."

It's tough to outbid the Federal Reserve. The idea that the MSM is a Ruling Class partner because of ideological compatibility is foolish.  The MSM made the decision long ago that long-term viability resides with the Ruling Class, because that's where the money is.  Barack Obama made that clear when he granted David Gregory an exclusive interview for the January 1, 2013 MTP - no matter what, the Ruling Class will take care of its friends, with your money, and the money earned by future generations.

254 National fault lines drawn on Second Amendment grounds. 

255 Matt Yglesias says the president's kids are more important than yours

Must be that "white privilege" I hear so much about.

256 http://tinyurl.com/byxo7mz Posted by: AmishDude at January 16, 2013 11:36 AM (T0NGe) We won't allow you to protect your children, but if they're predictably murdered in a gun-free zone, we sure will exploit it!

257  
243 ... They don't have government mortgages.

Are you sure?  They had a housing bubble which is bursting as we speak.

258 248 The Poster formerly known as Mr barky,

Good luck.

I studied Pravda in college and growing up.

Even Pravda was not this shameless about OVERT lying.

Pravda would simply ignore their nation's fuck ups as long as possible not actively mislead.

259 AllenG... If I win the house seat H-1 next year ill give you my first interview if you ever get your own blog

260 253 MRP,

The Fed is using the democrats to enslave us.

We may need to wreck the damn thing and start over for liberty and the enlightenment's sake....or accept being the "new jews"

261 Warning--long post ahead--feel free to mock at will.

If you want to understand how the GOP operates, think of a monopoly that practices perfect price discrimination.  The monopoly basis is built into our political system via state and federal laws favoring the party duopoly which makes third parties non-competitors for real power.  As a monopoly firm, the GOP wants to maximize vote totals, however, each voter has differing preferences on issues such as government spending and debt. 

Because the conservatives have no where else to go with their vote (other than stay at home), the GOP spends its time, money, and policy proposals, chasing the marginal low information voter (ie the moderate/GOP leaner/independent).  Thus, it is predictable that conservatives will lose intra-party fights on policy proposals such as the Sandy Porkfest Vote.  This also happens with candidate choices as well. 

The reason is because conservative ideologues value policy preferences so highly, they will vote Republican even with a small chance that actual conservative policy will occur.  Not voting or voting Democrat ensures no conservative policy.  So those are not options available to a conservative who values conservative policies.  So-called moderate RINO's value conservative policy or liberal policy much less and thus their options are larger.  They can vote and support Democrats rather than Republican or just go AWOL instead of voting Republican.  They do these things because they care about policy outcomes and conservative principles less than power or benefits. 

Thus, conservative votes are considered in the bag except for primaries, and campaign consultants focus on the moderates.  Look at how many GOP campaign consultants say non-conservative things.  That is because winning GOP politicians hire moderates to get moderate low interest, unprincipled, voters.  The greater the blue skew in a state, the more important the moderates will be etc. in determining the fate of your campaign thus a Susan Collins or a Scott Brown will always be unreliable from issue to issue. 

I don't believe that the same can be said for Democrats because the media effectively airbrushes even the most liberal Democrat as a moderate.  Thus, the low information voter probably perceives someone such as Barack Obama with a very liberal voting record in the Senate and someone who says very liberal things as a moderate.  Why, because the MSM tells you so because everyone know that fact.  Moderate Republicans, on the other hand, must define themselves as not conservatives in order to gain MSM semi-approval as a 'good' Republican so that low information moderate voters will continue to support them. 

So, we will always be disappointed in our system during normal times as a conservative because conservatives are not a majority as an ideology.  To the degree that conservatives and their values have been vilified by the MSM, academia, and entertainment, it is not surprising.  However, when the deluge comes, conservatism will make a comeback.  Why?  If you look at major crises of governments in the past, a time comes when the center cannot hold and radical change becomes necessary.  The U.S. Civil War, the American Revolution, The failure of the Articles of Confederation, the conflict between King Charles and Parliament, etc.

In our case, it may be a national emergency based national security threats, it may be a financial collapse of the welfare state, etc.  During such times, moderate low information are the ones with no where to turn and the politicians who tried to woo them find themselves on the outside looking in.  When our currency becomes valueless, then the government spending to buy votes becomes worthless.  If you are worrying about keeping alive, then you will support those keeping you alive regardless of your past sensitivities.  Crises tend to evolve to dichotomous choices--Us or Them.  Is it really surprising that the GOP did so well electorally when the Soviet Union was a real threat to everything?  Note--dichotomous choice 

Anyway, sorry about the long post but it is a hazard of the profession.  So I am off to teach undergraduates about the failures of the Articles of Confederation and the American Revolution. 

262 I wish I could express myself like this. All I can say is that I agree. Very sobering and powerful. From a poster on AR15 dot com: I fear for who I can trust, who I cannot trust, who will turn against myself and those like me. I know what must be done. I just don't want to be the first to do it, nor the only one to do it. And I know nobody does. For that reason I have a hard time blaming those who will choose inaction. I can only hope that when the time comes, I am not one of them.

263 I fear the Crusaders will arrive too late.  Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 16, 2013 11:40 AM (wbmaj)

Sadly, there are no Crusaders, France f@cked them over but good for being richer and more powerful than the King.  Now the Palestinians, a cesspool of diseased, ignoratn, illiterate, and angry Arabs that no Arab country will allow into their borders wields the political power in the Middle East.

264 If I win the house seat H-1 next year ill give you my first interview if you ever get your own blog

You want me to get me on the record as supporting a Democrat, don't you? /suspicious

265 Sadly, this thread is telling me that the Democrat Party is more principled than the GOP.  It's sad and scary.

Well then to hell with it, - legalize everything and let math, Darwin, and high velocity lead sort it all out.

266 Sorry, I do not celebrate Kwanzaa or the Winter Solstice.....Just the way it is in Clemenza Land...

267 The problem is the electorate. The electorate gets the leadership it deserves. Until the electorate changes, then minor squabbles over $620 billion for American algae are irrelevant. And I'm afraid the only way the electorate will change is if they start feeling serious pain from the government's policies. Yes, conservatives ceded control of the media and schools to liberals and we ought to take it back, but that's the work of decades and frankly the US won't last that long; economic reality is going to slam this country into the ground before then. Conservatives need to make sure their fingerprints are nowhere to be found on the wreckage. Liberals made this mess with the help of complacent, pandering, or foolish Republicans; make them own it. Conservatism will have to pick up the pieces.

268

In the end the best way to win an election is to give a majority of the people in the electorate what they want. What far too many Americans want (even some conservative Republicans in good standing) is other peopleÂ’s stuff.

 

Close, but wrong, I think. The voters who  would most likely vote GOP but  have not recently do not want other people's stuff. They don't need it. But they believe OTHER people need it, and if they can provide it to them without having their taxes raised - why the hell not?

 

Voters say, "Well, neither party is going to raise MY taxes. But the Democrats want to do all these great things. Why should  I vote Republican?"

 

Now, middle class taxes will have to go up to pay for what the Dems promise, but  voters don't know that. Because no one tells them. We didn't even make the case in 2012.

 

We are not losing elections because people want free stuff. We lose elections because voters believe other people need free stuff, and that it will cost them nothing to provide it.  

269 I dunno. Do you want to die on your feet standing on hill, or on your knees beside a ditch?
Posted by: AllenG

Dumb analogy, especially since "death" is losing elections if your goal is to actually change public policy.  But a lot of conservatives would rather be dead right and never win another election.  It's childish.  You'll have to explain the victory in that to me.  I'll take a Scott Brown if the alternative is Elizabeth Warren.

It would take very few election cycles to turn this country from a now center-left country to Venezuela if we decided we no longer wanted to run competitive elections and instead just ran dingbats from the Michelle Bachmann wing of the Party.

270

honest post, kinda victim-blamey though.

the american people can't make sound decisions about who they elect because they have no accurate information about those they vote for.

and that is on purpose.

271

243Why is it that Canada has managed to mend its fiscal ways and now, even with national health, is booming?

 

IMO, being a relatively sparsely-populated country with a  metric shit-ton of resources (you know, how WE used to be) allows Canada the luxury of turning on a dime compared to the US leviathan. 

 

Getting big makes you slow and stupid.  It happens with corporations and it happens with nations.

272 Capture the infiltrators and send them bagging,,,,

273

As I understand it, historically, all governments die, and for pretty much the same reasons. You can't hold back the tide. The peasants are what they are.

 

We, conservatives, should be coming together to support each other in the transition. Move south. Plan for a dollar collapse.

274 No, the voters who put obama over the top in NOV were voting for free stuff for themselves, not for other people


obamaphone lady's numbers are legion


and LBJ was an evil genius

275 262 rickb223,

Rick if you are in a community like I advocate for "run red" and YOU know that the guy being visited ain't bad folk and you hear gunfire?

You'll know what to do.

276 I have been thinking about "original sin."  I am thinking that the story in Genesis is an allegory.  How about this alternative?  When you choose to do something which your God-given reason tells you is wrong, that is sin. 

Yeah, we are a conservative nation.  But even Conservatives still want their free shit.

277

Sadly, this thread is telling me that the Democrat Party is more principled than the GOP. It's sad and scary.

 

There is not one iota of principle necessary to say "Vote for me and  I will see to it that government does a whole mess of great things and it won't cost you  anything."

278 I'll take a Scott Brown if the alternative is Elizabeth Warren. Either way you get Dodd-Frank. Oh, and Warren still trounces him in an election. So you've traded your principles for electability and wound up with nothing but the principle of electability.

279 It would take very few election cycles to turn this country from a now center-left country to Venezuela if we decided we no longer wanted to run competitive elections and instead just ran dingbats from the Michelle Bachmann wing of the Party.

Hmmm... Michelle Bachmann keeps getting re-elected.  Funny, that.

And, you know, if we did require some amount of adherence to "Conservative Orthodoxy" we might get more Jim Demints than we get Michelle Bachmanns.

But we've tried your way for at least the last 20 years.  All it has succeeded at doing is a) getting conservatives labeled as "crazy", and b) moving the country further left.

The at best it has slowed the fire; it hasn't stopped it.  I'm done using a residential water hose on a forest fire.  Either really start fighting the fire, or let it burn.

280 All this talk of the Founders has made me hungry for a box or two of Dolly Madison snack cakes. They're still around, right? The unions surely didn't shut down the Zingers too, did they? Of course, the Founders weren't sitting around eating snack cakes all day.

281 273 Invictus,

I'd perhaps alter that only by saying "run to the middle and the south" Frankly the real wealth potential in this nation in a reset are in the interior and south not the coasts anymore.

Texas would benefit from access to great lakes water and future commerce, and we'll need a stable breadbasket.

None of this is rocket science it is just a matter of accepting we are most likely kissing a corpse.

282

No, the voters who put obama over the top in NOV were voting for free stuff for themselves, not for other people obamaphone lady's numbers are legion

 

1. We were never going to get her vote. Forget her.

 

2. That phone program existed under Bush. And unless it's a different program, it was funded by the telecom industry. 

 

We don't lose suburban votes because they want free stuff.

283 It's the 'right wing extremists' in the GOP that are at fault. See, they vote in the manner their constituents sent them to Washington to do - against Bills that move us to the left. This results in even WORSE bills that are more left passing. Or something like that.

284 Oh good an Alex Jones wannabe is here.

285 I know Lets blame the site's democrat for the GOP being teh suck Sniff sniff Posted by: Navycopjoe at January 16, 2013 11:37 AM (YcOel) Pfffft. I blame you for the Cubs.

286 >>>How can we do this? ThatÂ’s a problem. I know thereÂ’s nothing worse than someone who complains about a problem but doesnÂ’t offer a solution. Yet thatÂ’s exactly what IÂ’m doing. I do know however that expecting to the GOP to act in a way that in the current environment is against its self interest is a waste of time.

So drew. Your officially on team LiB now? Reality is the only cure for the liberal disease? If so here's your cookie.

287 254National fault lines drawn on Second Amendment grounds.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 16, 2013 11:41 AM (wbmaj)

 

The 2A really is where the rubber hits the road regarding politicians' attitudes toward the  People.   We're either citizens with the rights God gave us or we're subject who will get what politicians allow us.

288 When it does finally fall apart - like Ponzi schemes do - people may say, 'you know, that Rick Perry was right. He should be president.'
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk

No they won't, especially since he later backtracked and repudiated it.  He was all over the place, he then said he wanted individual states to run Social Security?  How does that make it less of a Ponzi?

The point is, it's not viable political strategy to run on issues that you know you're going to lose on with the hope that maybe decades from now the country falls apart and you get to say you were right.

289 Posted by: McAdams at January 16, 2013 11:47 AM (lybWs) Then you're either a fool, or ignorant. You're satisfied with slowly ceding policy instead of winning. Your plan still goes to Venezuela, so what's the allure again?

290 We don't lose suburban votes because they want free stuff. Posted by: CJ at January 16, 2013 11:53 AM (9KqcB) Mortgage interest deduction. Refusal to means test for SS and Medicare. 99 weeks of unemployment. Child care tax credits. CHIP. Do you want me to continue?

291 243Why is it that Canada has managed to mend its fiscal ways and now, even with national health, is booming?

I also suspect that their schools and media are not as completely co-opted as ours are here in the States.  I saw a lot of common sense reporting quoted at various places from Canadian press. 

Here in America, the Press and Entertainment are one and the same with all the same players moving fluidly between the two incestuous arenas.  It does not always work--movie Promised Land seems to be an epic fail, but, generally the media (Press/Entertainment) present a unified meme that anything to do with the GOP is both bad and stupid and wickedly uncool.  We have reached a nadir in our country where it is worse to be thought uncool than almost any other personal failing. You can be fat, ugly, stupid, smell bad, acne ridden, and talentless and yet, if you are cool, you succeed--Mikey Moore laughs all the way to the bank as proof of this.

292 I don't know if it's been said yet, but Gabe thinks all we need to advance conservative ideas is to compromise more.

Or something like that.

I mean, passing Plan B was going to somehow advance conservative ideas . . . if it weren't for those darned "far right" conservatives we'd be lounging in a conservative paradise by now.

293 So drew. Your officially on team LiB now? Reality is the only cure for the liberal disease? If so here's your cookie.

I think Drew was one of the founding members of Team LiB.  He may be joining Team Throw Gasoline On It pretty soon.

294

Thoughtful piece, Drew. I take two issues with it.

 

(1) Perhaps voting with the Democrats if they offer something. Possible, but highly unlikely. Any "movement" must also recognize that the Democratic Party is the mortal enemy of these objectives and that they perceive conservatives and Republicans as their enemies and act on that basis. They need to be fought as a mortal enemy, not embraced as any sort of possible co-partner in governance. A vote that hurts the Democrats is almost as good as some sort of positive vote for the objectives. I'm an Eagles fan. I love it when they win. But, failing that, I love it almost as much when a division rival, let's just say the Cowboys, lose.

 

(2) The idea that we are all addicted to government and that none of us will give up our pet programs, so we're all kind of equally guilty here. There is some truth to that, sure. But (by way of example) I'm wary of the concept that someone who has worked hard, played by the rules all his or her life, bought a house based on those rules which were in effect, and now isn't happy to see the mortgage deduction go away, is somehow complicit in the problem at the same level as someone who has made a lifestyle on mooching from others via the government.

 

I have the sense that somehow, the dialogue could become a matter of "Let's start by cutting things like social security and the mortgage deductions from those who don't really 'need' them. Those people don't really need government help as much as the truly needy. We'll talk about welfare and food stamps 'later' ".  Sort of  like "Raise taxes from the productive now, we'll talk about spending cuts down the road".

 

How we reconcile the competing interests is beyond the blue skying we're doing here today. But there is a lot of good in these ideas.

295

Hmmm... Michelle Bachmann keeps getting re-elected. Funny, that.

 

Please don't compare gerrymandered districts to the US electorate. We can definitely elect a true conservative president, but I am  done defending candidates who say nutty shit.

296 Thirteen stars on it. To be exact. In an X pattern. You'll excuse me if I have no sentiment for symbols of failure.

297

There are three basic problems 1.)  Because most politicians (including the vast majority of Republican candidates) are incompetent to the extent they can not do anything else, the need to keep their job.  2.)  Politicians will do whatever is necessary to get elected, it is their job. 3.)  They must, therefore, pander to their electorate. 

None of them will stand up and do the right thing because it will cost them their jobs, and none of them has the balls to do what is right. 

Our nation is doomed.

 

298 Please don't compare gerrymandered districts to the US electorate. We can definitely elect a true conservative president, but I am done defending candidates who say nutty shit.

Not my point.  My point was that denigrating the "Michelle Bachmann wing" of the party is stupid.  You don't want Michelle Bachmann, fine.  Find someone else who is conservative to support.

And never, ever, vote for the Incumbent in the primary.

299 "You'll excuse me if I have no sentiment for symbols of failure."

Concur.

300

Mortgage interest deduction. Refusal to means test for SS and Medicare. 99 weeks of unemployment. Child care tax credits. CHIP.

 

That is not why we lost the last two elections. We haven't had a serious means test proposal in decades. These voters don't qualify for CHIP. And they don't use 99 weeks of unemployment.

 

But they think others need it. Which was my point. 

301 How can we do this? ThatÂ’s a problem. I know thereÂ’s nothing worse than someone who complains about a problem but doesnÂ’t offer a solution. Yet thatÂ’s exactly what IÂ’m doing.

Well that's the crux of it, isn't it?  Thread after thread, it's the same thing- I demand the GOP DO SOMETHING (but I don't know what or how and I'm very angry you're not doing it).

Yeah, I get it.  People are frustrated, and with good reason.  But the proper, constructive reaction to your cat pissing on the carpet does not entail shooting your dog.

302 Obama now letting us know that he gets his policy direction from children.

303 and LBJ was an evil genius  Posted by: Jones in CO at January 16, 2013 11:49 AM (8sCoq)

And he boasted about it by saying that the n*ggers would vote Democratic forever because of what he did.  He used the N word with impunity.

304

Obama:  If you won't be turned then you will die! Poor fool. Only NOW at the end do you understand. (Democrat lightning shoots from Obama's fingers. The GOP establishment stands stolidly in its black armor and does nothing except mumble about the tea party and insane paranoid idiots who won't play ball so they can't ever win.)

GOP base:  AAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!

 

305 The point is, it's not viable political strategy to run on issues that you know you're going to lose on with the hope that maybe decades from now the country falls apart and you get to say you were right. I don't think we're decades away from that. The point is trying to educate people.and actually effect a change in policy. Playing Eight-domensional chess demonstrably hasn't done that. If you think this is a problem that needs to be fixed, the best way to do that is to try to convince people. Because you ain't doing it in secret.

306 296 Cavil,

Indeed....I'd really like to have some stars from say North Dakota south....

I am not a neo-Confederate I am a paleo-American

307 The GOP is the weak horse...voters saw this during the 2012 elections, which was purely about tribalism. The GOP was painted as the "evil" party without being evil. The clueless pothead libertarians did more to reinforce the weakness of the GOP than the Dems. If the voters of the USA want tribalism, we had better damn sure be ready to deal with it. The political party now must be an instrument to drive fear into its enemies. I've said it before--for the anti-liberal movement to have any appeal (and lets dispense with the term "conservative" because it's a diluted concept), our side needs to establish an IRA-Sinn Fein relationship with the GOP. Let them direct the leviathan toward us (or at least toward punishing our enemies), while we target them with implied threats of violence. It's our country, not theirs, and we have to demonstrate that we are willing to seize it back, as our black friends would say, by any means necessary. And no, the IRA was not an "evil" organization. Their aims were not to many of our tastes, but their strategy was effective in breaking the British hold on Ireland.

308 Just a reminder that the GOP holds 30 governorships and the Dems hold 19.  Also Romney won half of the States.

309 And he boasted about it by saying that the ______s would vote Democratic forever because of what he did.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 16, 2013 11:59 AM (kXoT0)

He was not wrong

310 I like the part where, on this conservative website, as soon as someone says, "Them damned Boomers need their SS cut/eliminated" and the self-described conservative Boomers chime in, "Like hell!! That's not fair, I paid for it, it's MINE! I'm OWED!!"

Yup, conservative is in the eye of the beholder.

It's no more fair to chain your children and grandchildren to a life of economic drudgery and slavery that it is to take away your Social Security. Truth is, even though they won't admit it, chaining the future is worse because they didn't even get a chance to vote on it.

311

Red  curtains  or   blue  curtains   it's   still   the  Titanic.  In  the  end  one  math  shall  rule  them  all.

 

 

I'm   shocked  to  learn  that  you  can't  surrender  your  way  to  electoral   victory;  someone  should  tell   fucking  Karl  Rove.

312 Hmmm... Michelle Bachmann keeps getting re-elected. Funny, that.

And, you know, if we did require some amount of adherence to "Conservative Orthodoxy" we might get more Jim Demints than we get Michelle Bachmanns.
Posted by: AllenG

Yes, she barely gets elected in a HEAVILY gerrymandered Republican district and won by a single point.  Bravo, clearly that's the model for conservatives.  Only run candidates that can win in bright red spots of the country, and give everything else over to Democrats.

But the Michelle Bachmanns of the GOP are so super awesome that it all evens out.

313 >Just a reminder that the GOP holds 30 governorships and the Dems hold 19. Also Romney won half of the States.

Posted by: polynikes at January 16, 2013 12:00 PM (m2CN7)

not making me feel better

314 "And he boasted about it by saying that the n*ggers would vote Democratic forever because of what he did. He used the N word with impunity." Is there an actual, credible source for this? I've heard it repeated often, but never found the source. I'd love to quote this with impunity, but I want to make sure my ass is covered.

315 "The point is, it's not viable political strategy to run on issues that you know you're going to lose on with the hope that maybe decades from now the country falls apart and you get to say you were right."

Winston Churchill 1932-1939

316

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 16, 2013 11:57 AM (/eBe

 

Agreed.

317 I feel like I've landed on an alternate universe AOS

318 And never, ever, vote for the Incumbent in the primary.  Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 16, 2013 11:57 AM (/eBe

I seriously respect you AllenG, but, excuse me, I live in deep Red Oklahoma and I will vote for my proven Conservatives in the primaries.  James Inhofe has been fighting the good fight for a long time, especially on defense.  He did research on his own and was one of the first to say that Global Warming was hogwash.  He has written a book about it--The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future.  So, yup, I am going to vote for him in the primaries, Coburn too.  They are not perfect by a long shot, but, they have earned my support over the long haul.

319 304 Cackfinger,

Yeah pretty much how I feel about NCJ.

I like him, he and I would probably be fond friends as neighbors and his love of the (d) will not allow him to go to the party that better secures the majority of his values intersects and has him self-identify with the party of F$A.

I can't understand the people devolving back to the (d0 "well grandpa was a democrat" yeah so was mine until it became apparent they had a scarlet set of underwear going on in the 30s and 40s and don't look now 60s 70s and 80s 90s and 00s.....


well Abe Lincoln was a goddamned Republican eleventy!

Yeah yeah he was and.... LBJ was a democrat.

whatever....I am trying to get past caring anymore.

320 I have said it many times and I will say it again. If they don't fix this shit by the next national election they can kiss my ass. I will sit at home and let the communists burn it to the ground.
============
GWB, McCain, and Romney. You might even throw GHWB in there.

I'm pretty sure you'll keep waiting for them to change the primary system.

They--LIKE--the way the current system is set up; it keeps their guys winning.

321 The source of the LBJ n-word quote is a book by the former steward of Air Force One. Don't know the name off hand

322 Well that's the crux of it, isn't it? Thread after thread, it's the same thing- I demand the GOP DO SOMETHING (but I don't know what or how and I'm very angry you're not doing it). Yeah, I get it. People are frustrated, and with good reason. But the proper, constructive reaction to your cat pissing on the carpet does not entail shooting your dog. Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 16, 2013 11:58 AM (SY2Kh) Here is something the GOP could do. Boycott Meet the Press until David Gregory is gone. Go on TV and announce a Contract with America to gift the USA the unvarnished truth. Vote to freeze all spending at the 2007 level. Announce all negotiations with Democrats will be done in the open or not at all.

323 We're either citizens with the rights God gave us or we're subject who will get what politicians allow us.

At first glance, the constitution of the old Soviet Union resembled ours quite a bit, but with one very key difference - with the Soviets the state "granted" rights in their constitution, whereas the US constitution recognized them as intrinsic. 

Other than that, the language was really quite similar

324 310 Royal oil,

RO that was the epiphany that I had and was my as it turns out vain hope that America would allow us to wean it off the Ponzi scheme.....

nope no sir!

What we're gonna do instead is kill you with IPAB and slwoly devalue the dollar so we're paying you in shit paper!

I failed my kids and grandkids and it is devouring me.

Let it burn even a free dirt farmer has more chance for honest gain than a grandchild born in year 54 of the "obama paradise"

325

You know when the GOP will vote like conservatives? When we make it safe for them to vote  that way.

 

Democrats vote the way they do because  it wins elections. We have to change the minds of the voters, not the elected officials

326 >The source of the LBJ n-word quote is a book by the former steward of Air Force One. Don't know the name off hand

Posted by: BSR: Live from Falls Church at January 16, 2013 12:05 PM (CBCxo)

I'm employing my most powerful google-fu to authenticate

but the words were supposedly said to 2 governors while aboard AF1

327 There were more than enough fiscal conservative voters to have won the election, but too many of them were repelled by the SoCon lunacy of the Akin wing of the GOP.

328 Obama is going to use the Unaffordable Health Care & Stealth Communism Act to encourage doctors to help deal with guns rat out those with guns, like many here have predicted. As well as punish those with guns with higher premiums taxes. Thanks Roberts! You didn't meet your quota on reporting guns this month, your ObamaCare payments will be cut by 50%. If you can't find some, make some up.

329 320 Royal Oil,

I made a post at hotAir pointing out that even at 16 I felt burned by george HW Bush whom i volunteered for by age 18.

Then Bob Dole got his turn...

I am not fond of George "compassionate conservative you heartless Reagan jackass" Medicare-d Bush

Mccain and romney?


bwahahahahah


they have gotten their last high 4 figure payday from me.

Fuck you let the mule drive us over the cliff into slavery not my guy and money.

330 Is there an actual, credible source for this? I've heard it repeated often, but never found the source. I'd love to quote this with impunity, but I want to make sure my ass is covered.  Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 16, 2013 12:02 PM (ROv35)

His main biographers have cleaned up his life story.  I did find this:

"I'll have those ******* voting Democratic for the next 200 years." -- Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One Ronald Kessler's "Inside The White House"


at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100718060622AAKgnQH.

331 There is a certain type of Democrat I'd be willing to try to convince and ally with far more than a certain type of Republican--the type who is in it for money and power, and otherwise doesn't care.

332 327 cool breeze,

Horseshit but do go on.

SoCons are important, nay vital to the nation as well.

We did NOT get the wealth we have being immoral c*8ksuckers as our natural stated state of being.

Tard Akin sucked but if FiCon sat out because we have retards in our caucus then why doesn't a guy like NCJ sit out because well SCOAMF?

No and if so we deserve what's coming.

333 The point is trying to educate people.and actually effect a change in policy.

Playing Eight-domensional chess demonstrably hasn't done that. If you think this is a problem that needs to be fixed, the best way to do that is to try to convince people.

Because you ain't doing it in secret. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk

Will you at least concede that Reagan was a "worthwhile" conservative for us to elect?  Did you ever see him call SS a ponzi scheme or call to end it?  Should conservatives have demanded that of him? 

Hell, Romney is many ways was more conservative than Reagan, he actually pushed Ryan's voucher plan for Medicare that was a form of privatization.  Reagan never dared to get near something like that.

The perfect is the enemy of the good, and conservatives need to figure out either we become some sort of permanent minority party that gets to say "I told you so" if our country collapses or we try to score some wins where we can and at least point the country into a better place.

334

Historical causality is almost boring in its repetitive predictability: a republic is founded and at first it prospers but gives way over time to centralized tyranny. Over time, profligate tyrants steal from the public treasury, resulting in a moribund or declining economy, which in turn weakens national defense and invites foreign aggression and a breakdown of the social order, and so on down the spiral.

 

Anyway, we've adopted the unsustainable European welfare model. Note the word 'unsustainable'. After the now-nearly certain cataclysmic economic crash comes, probably within the next few years (or even sooner), our country will either return to its foundational first principles and rebuild (if our foreign adversaries allow it) or it will continue on its present course as a rapidly failing, increasingly bloated and authoritarian superstate rife with poverty and unrest.

 

You folks in the Let It Burn crowd? You act as if you have some control over events, as if you have been actively holding back and that you could put it out any time you want, like pissing on a candle.  How's that working out?

335

I see we're still  screwed. SNAFU.

 

I haven't received one single thing I voted for most of my adult life. At  this age, I'm truly  questioning   why what I want is so  bad I can't have it. I don't  feel as though my wants  are outrageous or "extreme" by any measure.

 

All I want is to be left alone, have a decent job  with some room for advancement as I get better at it, and the security in that job so I  make my own plans for  the future. I    want the truth from the places I go for information, so I can  make an educated vote and be a responsible citizen.  I want my kids and grandkids taught  about the real world   in school.  I want those   whom I send   to represent me (because I'm  busy working, theoretically) to be honest and to do what I want done, not what some lobbyist or party boss wants. I want the Constitution adhered to at all times, with the principles it embodies upheld so I  can remain a free citizen.

 

I  must  be a real oddball,  'cause I'll be damned if a single politician I've voted for  has supported or protected these things.

336 BTW, BurnTheWitch, that book is available on Amazon.

337 Oh, Canada does have government backed mortgages. But they are tightening up on them as people got in over the heads. Shorter terms, higher down payments, before the whole mess collapses -- what a concept! And the market is correcting.

http://tinyurl.com/8yw6rh3

I would like to hear what Mark Steyn says about it all.

338 327 There were more than enough fiscal conservative voters to have won the election, but too many of them were repelled by the SoCon lunacy of the Akin wing of the GOP.
Posted by: cool breeze

I actually agree with that.  People like Mourdock and Akin painted the entire GOP with a broad brush.  Same with people like Santorum wanting to make birth control and its dangers a major plank on his campaign.  The 2012 election was the largest gender gap in something like 50 years.

339 If we want to win again and actually accomplish something, we need a few conservative rich guys/gals to buy the media, or start their own media. We need to have women's pop culture magazines owned by conservatives etc. We need video game magazines owned by conservatives.

340 310I like the part where, on this conservative website, as soon as someone says, "Them damned Boomers need their SS cut/eliminated" and the self-described conservative Boomers chime in, "Like hell!! That's not fair, I paid for it, it's MINE! I'm OWED!!"

Yup, conservative is in the eye of the beholder.

It's no more fair to chain your children and grandchildren to a life of economic drudgery and slavery that it is to take away your Social Security. Truth is, even though they won't admit it, chaining the future is worse because they didn't even get a chance to vote on it.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 16, 2013 12:01 PM (imtbm)

 

you hit the nail right on the head, no one, not even so-called "conservatives" are willing to give up their own little piece of the socialist pie.

341 The 2A really is where the rubber hits the road regarding politicians' attitudes toward the People. The 2nd Amendment is where the Bill of Rights meets the road. Without the 2nd Am, the rest are just suggestions.

342 I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day.

You bought a lemon. Don't ask others to pay for it.

It's simply time to give up on the GOP. It's no use to us. The argument was we had to be moderate flexible to win anything. Well, we voted for moderates, and won nothing.

We didn't even get the mess of pottage.

The Hell with them.

343

As far as I can tell, conservatives are better at winning the small and local battles. The Dems are big at the national stuff. We got concealed carry one bite at a time. They get assault weapons bans in one quick bite.

344

The end game for democracy - all democracies - has ever been the same and recognized as such since the time of Plato.

Part of our problem is that the Democrats recognized that they could import voters without the self-control and long-term view of its conservative, largely white citizens.

The Democrats are not changing the outcome, only the schedule.

 

Fatalistic, I know.  I think I'll have a martini.....

345 "I actually agree with that. People like Mourdock and Akin painted the entire GOP with a broad brush. Same with people like Santorum wanting to make birth control and its dangers a major plank on his campaign."

Mourdock and Akin didn't "paint" anything.  Others not friendly to conservatives wielded the brushes, and not all of them were Dems.  The Establishment GOP wants our money, but they loathe our beliefs.  It's strange, isn't it, how the "moderates" cut former Senator Brown all sorts of slack because he ran for office in Mass., but let an Akin or a Mourduck say something unacceptable in a DC salon, and the Establishment GOP allies itself with the DNC and the MSM.  Ruling Class

346 "ItÂ’s Not The GOPÂ’s Fault It Is Useless..."

Oh hell yeah it is!

347 342I'm still trying to figure out why it makes me a bad conservative if I want MY social security money back some day."


because it isn't yours, the S.S. payroll tax is just a tax like any other tax, it isn't a "payment" into anything it is a tax and as such you are not entitled to get any of it back.

348 SS is deferred welfare. It is the perfect scam. Everybody has to play so everybody is corrupted by it.

349 348SS is deferred welfare.

It is the perfect scam. Everybody has to play so everybody is corrupted by it.

Posted by: eman at January 16, 2013 12:43 PM (tBnjP)

 

exactly

350 This was succinctly stated by someone long ago - I forget who - but to paraphrase: "all democracies are doomed to failure once the electorate discovers they can vote themselves stuff."

But, another piece of this puzzle is that the media does not accurately inform the electorate of the true costs and consequences.  this is for many reasons, one of the primary ones being liberal bias - but also because journalists are not that bright.  the best and the brightest students don't go into "journalism".  By and large, these aren't people who could have been mathematicians, doctors, engineers, or much of anything else that requires real analytical ability and brainpower.  Add to this time and budget constraints, and you get lousy news reporting.

If you ever read a story in which you are involved in some way, you will note that the reporter gets the facts and the analysis completely wrong almost every time.  Even on stories where liberal bias is not at all a factor.  Reporters usually don't more than superficially understand things they are reporting about and rarely take the time and effort to learn and also rarely take the time and effort to nail down the facts - instead accepting a superficial account of the facts from one or two sources - who may or may not know what they are talking about.

So, not only is the electorate voting for "free stuff", but it does so without any knowledge of the costs or consequences of those votes.

351 I found this post and its comments to be especially thoughtful even though it didn't appear so at first glance. And I think it's a lot less ridiculous then Jonah Goldberg's similar piece at NRO that tries to tell us that the GOP is, in fact, conservative.

As a resident of PA whose 2010-elected congressman voted for the pork-filled Sandy bill last night, I have to join the crowd dropping out of the GOP. I worked with my Tea Party group to get this bozo elected (not our first choice) and he has consistently voted against conservative values. The local GOP has been  despicable to our group despite the fact that we've provided the ONLY grass roots support & manpower over the past 4 years. Although PA has a GOP governor & legislature, the gov is extremely unpopular and may not win a 2nd term and capitol has brought nothing but additional taxes & more of the same.

I'd be willing to forgo my lifelong SS contributions or some portion if it would result in the country achieving some semblance of financial stability but I have to say that I don't know many people that feel that way.

Gee, I've depressed myself even further - didn't think that possible. Anyway, the GOP can go to hell.

352 Seriously, the only solution is to drive this motherfucker over the cliff and build anew.

353 And this is why your so-called "conservative" movement is a failure. A loosely defined coalition based on racism and right-wing hate is no basis for a system of government in a kinder and more enlightened era. Cast aside outmoded thinking and support Barack Obama as he moves us forward, returning us to the world community.

354 Dang, that "Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT" is the funniest liberal troll parody ever.

355

OregonMuse, the problem is you right-wing haters are so deluded that you mistake clear and rational thought and behavior for parody. Oregon as a whole supported our beloved multiracial President- why can you not embrace the normality of your community? Normal correctly-thinking people do not believe as you do. Therefore conservatism is a mental disorder and should be treated with mass institutionalization in new, quickly constructed facilities just to get you all off the streets and away from the rest of us.

356 "A loosely defined coalition based on racism and right-wing hate is no basis for a system of government" Stop with the lame bullshitting Mary. You are too stupid to understand what is going on and your slogans are empty and meaningless beyond their ability to mark you as a useful idiot who likes slogans more than thinking.

357 I'm with a lot of the others.  We've got to destroy the village to save it.

358 Keep it up, "Mary", I'm dying of laughter here.

359
"We've got to destroy the village to save it."

NO.
That would be wrong.
We let the village destroy itself.
The trick is not letting it destroy us along with it.

We've tried to save the ship and we failed.
It's time to get to the lifeboats.

360
"Seriously, the only solution is to drive this motherfucker over the cliff and build anew"

We left the edge of the cliff a while ago.
We are sailing through the air and we haven't hit the bottom of the chasm yet.

361 360 RayJ,

Yeah it's a pity that Captain Ted Kennedy is not still alive, we could use his advice on gliding a buick.

362 It is dumb politically to go after Social Security when you look at all the ridiculous things our government wastes money on.  I actually understand the sentiment of  someone who's paid their whole life into SS not wanting to see cuts there in order to balance the books for more worthless people to get their food stamps and Obamaphones.

Can we at least be smart enough to go after unpopular government programs first rather than cherished middle class entitlements like Social Security and Medicare?  Once we reform those, then let's take a look at shooting ourselves in the foot.

363

People get the government they deserve. November was our last chance to turn things around if that was even possible. We are now firmly on the road to "Let it burn". Sorry folks, but that's the truth. Maybe in the ashes there can be a re-birth, but there's going to be a lot of pain. You have about a year maybe two to prepare. God, guns and gold. There's nothing else you can depend on.

364 I like the idea of the R Senators leaving the party, but even better I like the idea of resigning from Congress all together. $1 trillion deficits are immoral, case closed, and anyone that remains in Congress while that travesty continues OWNS it. If you get dozens of R Congresscritters resigning as a collective citing a moral case related to the size of the deficit, the media will not be able to protect the Ds. People intuitively understand why this is wrong. The media has been able obfuscate this with bullshit (Bush is really responsible, Obama cut spending, if you adjust for 'normal' spending and receipts it's not a problem) and the Rs have utterly failed at cutting thru the bull.

365 Ordinary rational humans donÂ’t want to destroy their countriesÂ’ economy with government-owned healthcare and business, penalize wage-earners with more taxation, and mash constitutional freedoms into pulp.   But, thatÂ’s the goal of the class warfare neo-Bolsheviks in the White House and the Democratic party. Over half of the voting population reached the apex of stupidity and re-installed this SCOAMF to put more nails in America's coffin. If you think things are fucked up now, wait til you see what's next. The citizens of the United States of America will have to hit rock bottom before they are forced off their collective asses,  and do something about the way they get pushed around by Big Brother Obama.

366 Speaker Boehner would make great caulking material So how can you call him "useless"?

367 What?

368 365 Ordinary rational humans donÂ’t want to destroy their countriesÂ’ economy with government-owned healthcare and business, penalize wage-earners with more taxation, and mash constitutional freedoms into pulp. But, thatÂ’s the goal of the class warfare neo-Bolsheviks in the White House and the Democratic party. Over half of the voting population reached the apex of stupidity and re-installed this SCOAMF to put more nails in America's coffin. If you think things are fucked up now, wait til you see what's next. The citizens of the United States of America will have to hit rock bottom before they are forced off their collective asses, and do something about the way they get pushed around by Big Brother Obama. Posted by: SFC MAC at January 16, 2013 07:29 PM (TLbgU) ------ the useful idiots need to be woken up to the fact that the Donks are absolutely NOT on their side nor do they care about any of their identity groups.

369 Two words: Compassionate Conservatism The rest, as they say, is commentary..

370 useless rant

371 They are all Democrats now.

There is no difference.

They are all in it to manage the country's decline while they vote themselves as much gravy as they can before the train reaches the end of the line..

372 Why ressurrect this zombie thread?

373 Good essay on ZH;

A Message To The 'Left' From A 'Right Wing Extremist'

http://tinyurl.com/abrnolv

374 this rant is from same guy who two weeks ago was crapping all over 40 Tea Party congressmen for sticking to their conservative principles

375 The biggest problem we face is a Media that covers up for Democrats and their ideas while demonizing conservatives and their ideas.

If we had an honest Media, we would not be in the state we are in.  Criminals like Obama and fools like Biden would never be elected.

Until the current American Media is destroyed, we are not going to be able to change anything.  That may be sad, but like many sad things it is also true.

376 Mary Cloggenstein will you marry me?

377 Meh, Let it burn. The samrt ones are ready, the dumb ones will suffer, FK em.

378 Was there a reason for bumping this, or did Drew just want to get in on the stomping action?

379 The GOP may be useless, but it's fucking all we've got against this Marxist shithead. I admit LIB is attractive in light of the other options, but think about this: Obama himself wants the system to burn, too. He wants the system to burn because it's only the political and financial system that will burn. The media, however, will remain alive and kicking through it all. And who will have control of the media, i.e., control of the public's panicked mind, when everything is burning?

380 This entire thread makes me so depressed I want to stick my head in a plastic laundry bag.

What's the purpose?

381 The media, however, will remain alive and kicking through it all. Oh, I don't know about that. People get uber pissed when they discover they have been lied to.

382 "This entire thread makes me so depressed I want to stick my head in a plastic laundry bag.

What's the purpose?

Posted by: Jane D'oh"

 

Gee, I wish some depressed person would come visit me in my tank.

383

Reminds me of something Nixon once said...'Spending is a bogus issue, people ARE for spending".

Whatever you think of him, he might have had a point.

384 It's all over! It's all over! We won.

385 This entire thread makes me so depressed I want to stick my head in a plastic laundry bag. What's the purpose? Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 08:26 PM (UOM4 Well Hon, I reckon it's time to be like the lord. We love and covet those who love us, and the rest can go to hell.

386 A necessary, but not necessarily sufficient, condition is that conservatives really need to prioritize supporting conservative culture. If you see someone you know is a conservative in a movie, go watch it and tell other people how awesome it is (if you can do so without lying). Watch conservative tv programs. Tim Allen has a nice little sitcom called Last Man Standing. It's decently funny.

And network! Meet other conservatives! Hang out with people you want to be like.

And let's be realistic. America probably cannot be saved. So have a back-up plan.

387 >>>This entire thread makes me so depressed I want to stick my head in a plastic laundry bag.

>>>What's the purpose?

Drew's posts are like Opera. There supposed to be long overly embellished and make you sad.

388 383 Yep,the spending they are against is for the "other guy" just like they are for tax increases on the "other guy".

389 Stop whining about the Media.  There's nothing you can do about it.

390 Drew's posts are like Opera. There supposed to be long overly embellished and make you sad. Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 16, 2013 08:29 PM (0q2P7) Mission Accomplished.

391 386 Bravo, we have to start someplace!

392 The problem with us old farts sacrificing part of our social or other retirement is we know the asshats in D.C. will use that money to support other crap. Then we'll be broke and the country will be in worse shape.  Our representatives have forgotten their role. They're playing a game and the media is the referee.  And we're the fucking ball being kicked around

393 368the useful idiots need to be woken up to the fact that the Donks are absolutely NOT on their side nor do they care about any of their identity groups. Posted by: Lurkasaurus at January 16, 2013 08:19 PM (0K4Xj) --- If the useful idiots have not yet woken up, what makes you think that a crazy burning system will shock sense into them? Severe immediate hardship may make a few people wake up, but for most they will panic and look to blame someone else for an easy out. What makes you think they won't listen to the Fascist Media telling them exactly whom to blame? What makes you think they won't listen to the vulture Leftists telling them they can feed their kids and grandparents only if they kill the pigs who have selfishly accumulated "more than their fair share"?

394 Also, spend more time volunteering with local charities.

395 "Also, spend more time volunteering with local charities.

Posted by: JohnJ "

 

Kids...nice juicy kids. Mmmmmm.

396

"I don't blame them one bit"....What a load of crap. The moderators here are reading more and more the like the Democratic Underground dumbos. The GOP sucks. The only way out is thru the States reasserting themselves. Get the hell off the Gopjuice you jugheads. Forget about jingo "conservatism" - first learn yourself some republicanism.

 

397 393 Yep,the left see's all wealth as zero sum.A limited amount of slices that must be divided.If someone is rich another must be poor.If one is well fed,well,you get it.

398 Oh, I don't know about that. People get uber pissed when they discover they have been lied to. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 16, 2013 08:27 PM (l86i3) ---- Yeah, but that's only a fraction and only if they operate from a position of security. Look at all the "conservatives" who voted for Obama because their families were in trouble and they were worried that the GOP would cut off their aid. People get uber-shrewd when push comes to shove.

399 Fuck the original 52%.

400 Drew's post is in the Headlines postings @ Hotair.

I'm banned over there so I guess this is a work around.

401 My upbeat, glass half-full, small business-owning husband came home tonight despondent.

He thinks the whole country is going down the toilet.  (He's slow to catch on, as he's actually working 12+ hours a day, but he's starting to understand.)

I'm depressed.  I mean, really depressed.

402 @53: you will find very few people who are serious about IT who have liberal values.

403 >>>Look at all the "conservatives" who voted for Obama because their families were in trouble

If you can't place what's right for the country ahead of what's right for you, you're not conservative, and you don't deserve to be free.

404 398 Oh, I don't know about that. People get uber pissed when they discover they have been lied to. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 16, 2013 08:27 PM (l86i3) --- ...so where's all the outrage against Obama for all the clear lies he's told? Where's the outrage on Benghazi? Read your Rousseau: Most people want to be lied to.

405 "I'm depressed. I mean, really depressed.

Posted by: Jane D'oh "

 

Swimming with a killer whale cures that.

On a serious note, he has lots of company.

406 394 Also, spend more time volunteering with local charities.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 16, 2013 08:31 PM (Tt6ky

Many of us have been doing exactly that for years and years.

It's the Obamabots and their fellow travelers who have to be "commanded" by Queen Mooch (for this Saturday...National Day of Service).

407 I admit LIB is attractive in light of the other options, but think about this: Obama himself wants the system to burn, too. Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 16, 2013 08:25 PM (Y5I9o) I can't speak for anyone else, but my reasoning in explaining LIB was "don't stroke out trying to stop a tidal wave with a soup spoon." Doesn't mean you don't fight, just stop screaming and pull your chute when you're falling from a plane. Or, failing that, aim for deep snow or water. The internet, the 24-hour news cycle, and marketing all give people a sense that they have more control or influence than they really have. The obvious problem with that is trivial, the real problem is that we never know when we *do* have control or influence because of all the false signals. And here I am, saying this on a *blog* - how's that for irony. The ultimate point not being spend your limited resources where they can do some good (though I understand that), it's about refocusing on less self-destructive things. As a related aside, the left has been running up so many scandals we can't effectively respond, because before we can act there's a new scandal. We have to break that cycle before we can do anything else.

408 Yeah, but that's only a fraction and only if they operate from a position of security. Look at all the "conservatives" who voted for Obama because their families were in trouble and they were worried that the GOP would cut off their aid. People get uber-shrewd when push comes to shove. Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 16, 2013 08:33 PM (Y5I9o) Agreed, but when the babies ribs start showing, it's a whole new ballgame. We are out of money, those that want free shit? it's almost gone. When it goes they will have to bkame somebody and the rich will already be out of the country. We will be left to fight the war.

409 Told our son today on e-mail, any military doc who tries to get you to say you're suffering from PTSD, if you say "yes" you've just given up any and all rights to own or purchase a gun.

They're going after vets big time.

410 They're going after vets big time. Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 08:40 PM (UOM4 Thats ok, they can use some of mine.

411 "Told our son today on e-mail, any military doc who tries to get you to say you're suffering from PTSD, if you say "yes" you've just given up any and all rights to own or purchase a gun.

They're going after vets big time.

Posted by: Jane D'oh "

Of course. They are trying to disarm potential future revolutionairies.

Next up, people who take anti-depressants.

412 Don't expect people to suddenly decide they hate being lied to and made poor. Many great countries have been destroyed by demagogueing class warriors. Plato says it's inevitable in any majoritarian system.

413 Okay not going to read the whole thread, not sure why it got bumped.

But my position on this is that it is up to us to change what is within our power to change.  Stop focusing on DC *so much*.  Change ourselves to be more consistent with our own values.  If we don't want our government to be so far in debt, then we should forswear so much debt in our own lives.  Be an example of the citizen we want others to be, and lead by example.

414 Apologies if this already got mentioned.

415 403 If you can't place what's right for the country ahead of what's right for you, you're not conservative, and you don't deserve to be free. Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 16, 2013 08:35 PM (0q2P7) --- Can we cut the sanctimonious crap about who "deserves" to be free? This is the mirror image of Liberal holier-than-thou statements about other people/countries not knowing what's in their own best interests. I get the point that freedom entails responsibility. But when you're fighting against an actively hostile government, that makes it hard. Old people are terrified that Obama is going to delay/withhold social security checks. Do they not "deserve" to be free, just because their kids (who are probably Liberals) won't help tide them over to stand up to this kind of political economic bullying? Look at what Liberals have done: They've attacked society at its most vulnerable levels (kids, elderly, poor) in order to extort votes. And what do these people see from you? They see stinginess and grumpiness and the words "you don't deserve to be a free conservative". That's a great way to pat yourself on the back, but it's why we're losing.

416 Don't expect people to suddenly decide they hate being lied to and made poor. Many great countries have been destroyed by demagogueing class warriors. Plato says it's inevitable in any majoritarian system. Posted by: JohnJ at January 16, 2013 08:42 PM (Tt6ky) Fuck Plato. We have 40-50 million armed rednecks. It's not going to crack slowly, it will shatter all at once.

417 >>>Plato says it's inevitable in any majoritarian system.

Plato used that observation to promote authoritarian collectivism ruled by the intellectual elite as an alternative so pardon me if I take his opinion with a salt lick.

418

Jane,

Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

Romans 8:31

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?

Take heart, all is certainly not lost.

Take care -

419 Was there something new added to this post?

420 >>"I'm depressed. I mean, really depressed.
Posted by: Jane D'oh "


SCOAMF is trying to demoralize you Jane.

Do not give in.

No matter what comes.

They are made of lesser stuff.

......and in the long run - THEY WILL

421 @Mike

Sure, but that was a different mistake that had little to do with his explanation of how majoritarianism becomes mob rule.

422
If we don't want our government to be so far in debt, then we should forswear so much debt in our own lives. Be an example of the citizen we want others to be, and lead by example.

Posted by: chemjeff




And when the government comes to you and takes what you saved, using force if need be, to pay for the Feds' debt, the Blue States' debt, and the debts of all the Obama-phone, student loan. farm bill layabouts?

Then what?

423 >>>That's a great way to pat yourself on the back, but it's why we're losing.

I tried nice. It didn't work. At this point I have no hope and I simply don't want to be accused of not giving it to them straight. I stand by what I said. Asshole and all. It's the brutal reality. That is coming....very soon. To mug us all.

If you've got freedom, and aren't willing to die for it. You won't keep it.

424 Fuck Plato. We have 40-50 million armed rednecks. It's not going to crack slowly, it will shatter all at once. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 16, 2013 08:44 PM (l86i3) ---- That's why the next step is to culturally convert the rednecks. Remember when MTV's the Real World came out 20 years ago? It was cultural bullshit then, but it gave a generation of kids a model of behavior to mimic, so now it's the norm. And what's MTV doing next? Google "Buckwild". Look at how Lena Dunham's show is going to have a "Republican" character. All of this is aimed at culturally subverting the main opposition demographics. I am willing to bet that within 15-10 years of this bullshit, just in time for the system collapse, we will not be able to count on those armed rednecks to fight for our cause.

425 American hostages in Mali too. The difference btwn Carter serving one term and BHO getting a second is that the media was embarrassed of Carter and highlighted his failures.

426 I could explain the problem to you, but I'll probably be banned for it once again. I mean, I was last time. (And no, I'm not talking about changing demographics at this point. I'm talking about how, inevitably, the most free nations and economies eventually become overregulated empires. Rome, Britain, America. All the same, really. There is a viable solution, but all of you here hate it.)

427 Hope our son takes his shit down off Facebook.

He's such a great kid, loves his country, the Corp(se), can't stand the SCOAMT.

I e-mailed him, "Dammit, take that shit down.  You've only got a few more months.  Dammit."

It's not horrible, a pic of Dear Leader and some crap about the right to bear arms.  However, it's forbidden in the military to diss our Precious CiC.  The same douche who was so heart-broken over the Ft. Hood massacre and Benghazi.

Jeebus.  Glad I didn't decide to give up alcohol this week.

428 There is a liberal party and there is a socialist party. There hasn't been a conservative party since sometime in the late 90s.

429 I turned off the laptop and the TV and went outside and had a nice day


it's quite breathtaking I suggest you try it

430 409 Told our son today on e-mail, any military doc who tries to get you to say you're suffering from PTSD, if you say "yes" you've just given up any and all rights to own or purchase a gun.

They're going after vets big time.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 08:40 PM (UOM4

_____________________

They're going after everyone. They are going to invent mental diseases that only gun owners have.

431 #426:There is a viable solution, but all of you here hate it.) Posted by: Samwise Gamgee's bastard spawn at January 16, 2013 08:53 PM (ZIkmx) --- Remind me what your solution is again? Seriously.

432 >>>Sure, but that was a different mistake that had little to do with his explanation of how majoritarianism becomes mob rule.

It's a linked discussion for Plato. His rejection of democratic process because of his observation on the problems of majoritarianism causes him to reject the Republican form of government outright as flawed beyond usability. He imagines building a perpetual governance by completely eliminating all democratic processes. Aristotle takes a much more practical and ultimately usable approach, it starts with the idea that not everybody has a Citizen's heart in them but MOST do; Those that don't should not be allowed to participate. By keeping the electorate somewhat selective, a Republic founded on Democratic processes could enjoy a long life. Aristotle realizes the method is flawed, BUT also that other methods are flawed in worse ways and seeks to make the imperfect functional. Plato is the original progressive (Actually Pythagoras was but that's really another story) and imagines a perfect society made up of a two classes filled with the perfect humans for each class. One class mindless laborers, the other, elite rulers.

433 423 I tried nice. It didn't work. At this point I have no hope and I simply don't want to be accused of not giving it to them straight. I stand by what I said. Asshole and all. It's the brutal reality. That is coming....very soon. To mug us all. Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 16, 2013 08:51 PM (0q2P7) --- Well...yeah. I guess we're fighting against years of scholastic/media indoctrination that makes people instinctively recoil when they hear arguments like ours. Eh, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither did it fall in day. This was long prepared for throughout this century. Fuck.

434 And when the government comes to you and takes what you saved, using force if need be, to pay for the Feds' debt, the Blue States' debt, and the debts of all the Obama-phone, student loan. farm bill layabouts?

Then what?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 16, 2013 08:50 PM (kdS6q)

If that happens at all, if it takes place within the next 2 years or so, then there is nothing (legally) you can do about it anyway, except fight it in court.

To forestall that possibility from happening in the future, persuade others via your example to not tolerate such debt-laden nonsense from politicians.

That's my point.

435 Coming late to the thread below regarding doctors - patients - gun control:

We (federal healthcare providers - Veterans Administration)  were sent a letter today via email telling us that HIPPA rules do not apply if a doctor suspects that a patient may be a harm to themselves or others.  The doctor has a moral and ethical duty to report such suspicions to law enforcement, relatives, etc. Although the letter doesn't specifically mention guns....you can bet your bottom dollar that this is what it is all about.  What a coincidence that this letter was sent to us all today.

So be on notice - you tell your doctor that you are a gun owner, and said doctor is 'anti-gun' he/she can report you and justify it by saying that they believed that you may be a threat for whatever reason.  Choose your physicians wisely.  If your doctor starts asking you about guns....you've been warned.

436

Let it burn.  I also endorse MIB.  Better that the whole world be destroyed than allow the Left to win out. 

My so-called fellow Americans rob me.  They take nearly half of my income when the hidden and indirect taxes are calculated in.  I owe them nothing.

I'm taking what I can get and once I have enough I'm taking it with me.  If they try to rob me again on my way out, steal my property, then I'll burn it first.

 

437 >>They are going to invent mental diseases that only gun owners have.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 16, 2013 08:56 PM (HDgX3)

It's called Liberty.

It presents as a response to Liberal Delusion Disorder.

438 "To forestall that possibility from happening in the future, persuade others via your example to not tolerate such debt-laden nonsense from politicians.
That's my point.

Posted by: chemjeff "

 

Yes, that will work with the Honey Boo Boo crowd.

Too many people have neither the desire or discipline to live the way you suggest.  

439 It's not going to "burn to the ground." It's going to slowly rot - with you in it.

440 They're going after everyone. They are going to invent mental diseases that only gun owners have.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 16, 2013 08:56 PM (HDgX3)

and bible or torah thumpers. or those that oppose killing infants, or those that don't support govt over-reach.

or those that think Obama is dead wrong on policy.

441 I'm physically and emotionally tired.  Have never felt like this in my life.

Husband has gone to bed early.  I just doubled down on melatonin. 

I consider myself to be a pretty tough woman.  Damn, this Age of Obama is killing my spirit and soul.

442 >>> Remind me what your solution is again? Seriously. Alright, I'll assume you're being sarcastic. As you may know, I supported the GOP for the past several elections, but was on the center-right side of things, rather than being a conservative. Basically a libertarian. However, I've become convinced of a few unpleasant ideas (although others on other topics which bring some hope, but we're talking about the government and state control of the economy). One of which is these. Largely free countries with small governments and free trade create a shit-load of wealth. But then. Politicians get their hands on it and use it to buy votes, growing the state. Eventually, it occurs to them they can use these fantastically large revenues as collateral to borrow money from future generations. I.e., creating debt through fiat currency and outright borrowing from foreign states. That is the situation you're in now. So the smallest governments inevitably become the LARGEST. The only viable solution is no government. Alternatively, you can aim for a middle-sized government, but an extremely limited government will ALWAYS lead to a very large, very powerful government, and if the country has a sufficient population base, a quasi-Empire with overseas bases.

443 @Mike

I totally agree with you. That's a very good, succinct explanation. However, my point was that his endorsement of total communism doesn't diminish the veracity of his criticism of majoritarianism, criticisms which we've actually seen played out in reality over the last 100 years or so.

444 *Alright, I'll assume you're NOT being sarcastic.

445
To forestall that possibility from happening in the future, persuade others via your example to not tolerate such debt-laden nonsense from politicians.
That's my point.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 16, 2013 08:59 PM (BBWjt)

I will point out that it is the 24th amendment which made a sudden and decisive change in FedGovs policies regarding giving away public money. 

The number one financial problem facing us is entitlements, and Welfare/Foodstamps is a large part of that.  The last three words of the 24th amendment made it possible for non-taxpayers to elect people who would promise them financial goodies from the US Government. 

When non-taxpayers are electing spendthrifts, it eventually dies.

446
Ha! Bumped, so we can punch the repubs in ball sack again.

447 Jane* i know it's demoralizing, but we have to hope enough people wake up soon and dislike the liberty  killing that is happening , that they see we must stand up and say No, vote no. that the individual  has rights no administration  should have the power to take away.

remind people of once having a great job, a nice home,  without fear of the future and debt or collapse.

anyway Jane, i know,  but as the name here says rightly.

nevergiveup!

448 If I was going to be truthful to a doctor about firearms, my answer would that I only possess family heirlooms handed down from three generations.

Realistically, this covers everything from a 1911 to a Ma Deuce to a M134 minigun, biznitches.

449 Re#271 Jaws
"Why is it that Canada has managed to mend its fiscal ways and now, even with national health, is booming?"

You want the ugly truth?
1) Canada never had slavery
2) The nation to their south is us

450

Sorry... but I absolutely blame the GOP for this debacle...

 

'IF' they had kept their prior promises of basic fiscal consertaism... IF they had cut even a little bit, not to mention the 100 BILLION in REAL cuts they had promised the prior election cycle...

 

THAT would have gotten more of the MILLIONS of Republican Registered voters who STAYED HOME OUT OF APATHY to vote.

 

We Fiscal Cons keep electing the SAME folks... who then piss on our boots and tell us its raining.... they do NOT keep their promises... so after awhile folks stop being excited about supporting them....

 

You CANNOT run EVERY stinkin Election on the idea that 'THE OTHER GUY IS WORSER!"

451
I consider myself to be a pretty tough woman. Damn, this Age of Obama is killing my spirit and soul.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 09:05 PM (UOM4

Sauron casts a shadow across the land.

452 The only viable solution is no government. Posted by: Samwise Gamgee's bastard spawn at January 16, 2013 09:06 PM (ZIkmx) Viable? It's not even possible. The first thing that happens when more that two people exist in one place is a pecking order, basically they try to form a government, establish rules and responses... It is an inevitable as it is destructive. Our answer was strict limits that were hard to change, but that didn't work. "The answer," a million years from now, is for each person to be so individually powerful that no one can harm anyone else. That probably won't work either.

453 Your side of America's political argument is IMPLODIING...Good riddance! Love, Jimmy-Joe.

454 Yes, that will work with the Honey Boo Boo crowd.

No, it won't.  At least not initially.  But to some extent even the Honey Boo Boo crowd doesn't want to go bankrupt due to debt in their personal lives.  So, show them how that's possible via example. And then illustrate, if that's possible for individuals, then demand the same level of discipline and responsibility from our government.

455 and fgs i hope that the next election we see a liberty loving candidate!

i can hope.

456 Romeo13 - Spot on.

Also, those annoying forms you have to fill out when starting with a new care provider....Watch for the question "Are there any firearms in the home".....answer what you will but mine will be a NO.

457 George W. Bush betrayed limited government more than Obama ever will.

Patriot Act
TSA/DHS
Medicare Part D
TARP
Iraq War
Afghan War
Mortgage Downpayment Act
AIDS in Africa gift
Sarbanes-Oxley

458 Jane, don't be so depressed and demoralized
you deserve a kitteh, here is a kitteh
http://tinyurl.com/2bty8d2

459 Romeo,  well when folks in Iowa pick our candidates

460 Politicians get their hands on it and use it to buy votes, growing the state. Eventually, it occurs to them they can use these fantastically large revenues as collateral to borrow money from future generations.

I.e., creating debt through fiat currency and outright borrowing from foreign states.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee's bastard spawn at January 16, 2013 09:06 PM (ZIkmx)

This is why I say the 24th amendment was a suicide pill.  That is what made it possible for politicians to buy enough votes to beat out more sensible leaders.  The poor vote for free money.  It's easier than working. 

Before the 24th amendment, politicians weren't concerned about non-taxpayers because they couldn't vote.

461 So glad our son has decided to leave the Corps.  God help him, he loves it, but can't bear another three years serving under this SCOAMT. 

Do. Not. Want. the Marxist in Chief having the power to send our son and others off to whatever "adventures" he sees as worthy.

Any of you 'rons and 'etts out there, please discourage loved ones from joining during the Age of Obama.  They're nothing but cannon fodder, or, in the case of Ft. Hood, "work place violence victims."

He's beyond despicable.

462 disagree about fghan war

463 Boo!

464 >>>doesn't diminish the veracity of his criticism of majoritarianism, criticisms which we've actually seen played out in reality over the last 100 years or so.

He identified the FSA first (Or was at least the first to write it down). It doesn't take a great philosopher to do that; my redneck friends who can't pronounce Plato can identify the FSA and describe how they are dangerous to a country. It takes a great philosopher to come up with a solution. I'm not saying that Plato didn't contribute a LOT to philosophy. But as far as his views on humanity the only thing that seems salient (and great philosopher good observation) is the gyges dialogue (Or as I call it Platolkein dialogue) wherein he observes that power is an irresistible corrupting influence. GREAT OBSERVATION!!!!! Goes on to say will solve that by giving all power to a small group of people, and thereby since they have all the power that exists they can't be corrupted by it. SHITTY CONCLUSION!!!! So yeah not a fan of his supposed genius in the area of politics.

465 >>>Viable? It's not even possible. The first thing that happens when more that two people exist in one place is a pecking order, basically they try to form a government, establish rules and responses... You might actually be right. Evolutionary biology may make complete non-aggression impossible (although peaceful parenting practices, not hitting children, might make it more conceivable in the long run). But anyway, a very small free-trade democratic government will always produce so much wealth that politicians will first tax it, then use it as collateral for further taxing and currency devaluations through, er, "trillion dollar coins" and other inflationary measures, with debt passed on to the unborn for the benefit of the current crop of voters, but really the politicians' election chances. Democracy guarantees unsustainable debt. I was indoctrinated to believe in democracy as much as you were, but economically, it just doesn't work long term. It can't. Not with human nature being as it is. Really small governments don't work because they become really big governments. I think you pretty much have to aim for a middle-sized, not particularly democratic government (i.e., the elected Senate was a mistake). If you create a really small government, you create so much wealth you set in motion a boom and bust cycle, with the bust being massive tyrannies, basically empires.

466 Awww, chemjeff....that kitteh made me sad.  Looked homeless....

*sigh*

467

Romeo13 @ 450

 

It is all about who is doing the voting.

 

If you are voting out of "fear", then you can be tormented into voting for a less satisfactory candidate because the "other guy" is worse.

 

If you vote out of conviction of principle, you can be offended by either or all candidates and withold you vote, because they are all rotten bastards.

 

I did not think Romney was a rotten person.  I knew he was less than ideal in many ways, but what man does not fall short in some way?

Yet living in a battleground state (Ohio) I saw the full spectrum of the Obama fear campaign, and while that drove down the turnout, it also got his base of remoras fired up, because of fear of losing their stuff and government handouts (at all levels).

468 >Awww, chemjeff....that kitteh made me sad. Looked homeless....

*sigh*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 09:17 PM (UOM4

DAMMIT CHEMJEFF

469 I consider myself to be a pretty tough woman. Damn, this Age of Obama is killing my spirit and soul.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 16, 2013 09:05 PM

Me too Jane.  The communists in this country want our spirits crushed and demoralized.  So in that vein, don't give in or as our illustrious poster nic has said - NEVERGIVEUP. 

The comments from the left are so predictable  - we are Nazi's, Fascists, bible-thumping, women hating, creationists.  The more they scream these attacks - the more that we have to fight back with facts, mockery and a good dose of fuck you lunatics!  You know that you are over the target when you start taking flack.

470 George W. Bush betrayed limited government more than Obama ever will.

Patriot Act
TSA/DHS
Medicare Part D
TARP
Iraq War
Afghan War
Mortgage Downpayment Act
AIDS in Africa gift
Sarbanes-Oxley

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at January 16, 2013 09:14 PM (zkWV6)

There is much to say for this point.  George Bush set a crazy speed in the Federal expansion of spending and programs.  The Democrats figured that if the Republicans were going to go loony toons crazy, then the public wouldn't mind four times as much.

George and his Father have been very bad for this nation.

471 >>>George W. Bush betrayed limited government more than Obama ever will.

Two things.
1. Unless you can see the future of the next four years that is just an opinion.
2. Bush is no longer in any way influencing policy nor is he projected to do so in the future (22nd amendment and all) . The extent to which he did or did not betray the concept of limited government is not pertinent to the political debate on limited government we are having in the here and now, not 9+ years ago when we were choosing who to run on the Republican ticket in 2004.

472 Cheri, I won't give up.

Our son lost friends in A-Stan, and our kid came away different, yet his same amazing self. 

And FUCK any doctor who says our brave kid can't have the right to buy/own firearms.

So.  Tired.

473 okay, here are some kittehs who are definitely not homeless
http://tinyurl.com/98m3su9

474 Posted by: Samwise Gamgee's bastard spawn at January 16, 2013 09:17 PM (ZIkmx) I don't think your plan has teeth. Or really any rigid skeletal analogue. I mean, you've identified that "things suck," but that was kind of the starting point here. Frustrating, isn't it? Also, might not want to make assumptions about what I was "indoctrinated to believe." World is full of surprises.

475

 

Plato and Aristotle: remember that the Greece (Athens) they were born into and grew up in was in a large part ruined by the Peloponesian War, and the fickle idiocy of the Athenian "polis" during that time.  It was heartbreaking to their previous ideals.  And then they were conquered and ruled by those hillbillie Macedonians from up north.

 

So yeah, I wouldn't draw too may conclusions from the dialogues between Aristotle and Plato, because they were both bitter about the death of the traditions of Athens.  Democracy, limited though  it was in Athens, failed them because of greed, stupidity their loss of proportion.

 

Sound familiar?

476 471 okay, here are some kittehs who are definitely not homeless
http://tinyurl.com/98m3su9

Posted by: chemjeff at January 16, 2013 09:23 PM (BBWjt

OMG.  Want to become a cat lady....that's a Starter Pack....

Thanks, chemjeff!

477 @442 osted by: Samwise Gamgee's bastard spawn at January 16, 2013 09:06 PM (ZIkmx) -- Hm...interesting. I wasn't being sarcastic, and you certainly have a point. I don't know if I agree, but it doesn't sound idiotic.

478

I turned off the laptop and the TV and went outside and had a nice day


it's quite breathtaking I suggest you try it

 

I would, except that it is raining and has been for a week - keeping the fire going is a major hassle, since all the firewood is wet to some degree. The alternative is reading about Ancient Egypt, which also doesn't help, since the auther presents a pretty good argument that the Egypt pharaonic system was one of the longest-lived totalitarian despotisms in history...

479 There is much to say for this point. George Bush set a crazy speed in the Federal expansion of spending and programs. The Democrats figured that if the Republicans were going to go loony toons crazy, then the public wouldn't mind four times as much. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 16, 2013 09:22 PM (bb5+k) GW was certainly very flawed, but take a look at the deficits between say 2002 and 2006. Then look at what happened in 2007 when the Dems took both houses. Then look at how many budgets reached the President after that. The GOP, for all their flaws and bizarre notions, were doing grunt work to reduce the deficit for a few years there, and while they deserve some blame for what happened after, the tidal wave was blue not red.

480 FOR all the morons feelin' blue

Kitty Laffs At You

http://is.gd/oQFRer

481 I know Jane and God bless you and your very loved son.  He, you and your family are patriots.

I don't blame him for not wanting to re-up under this regime.  I served first under Reagan and then Clinton.  Talk about a sea change.  These people are very dangerous and don't give a shit about our children. 

482 FOR all the morons feelin' blue Kitty Laffs At You http://is.gd/oQFRer Posted by: Jones in CO at January 16, 2013 09:26 PM (8sCoq) Sigh, even kitty is laughing at me...

483 >I turned off the laptop and the TV and went outside and had a nice day


it's quite breathtaking I suggest you try it

I would, except that it is raining and has been for a week -



we have been below freezing since last Friday- today it got up in the 50s


open road+motorcycle+speed= feeling good

484 I'm reading "Julia's Cats" about Julia Child's early years in Paris with husband (and love of her life) Paul, and their introduction to kittehs.

What jumps out, is the love Julia and Paul had for one another, to the point they could barely stand to be apart for so much as one night.

You know what's awesome?  There was a time when people kept actual, written letters.

I have my late Daddy's from WWII. 

Sad, our generation has lifeless e-mails.  And Twitter.

485 Rand Paul on Hannity talking about introducing legislation next week to squash Obama's actions today.

486 Merovign, the thing i became agitated about re Bush  was the patriot act, i srsly thought as the sunset provision  had been also a part of it i thought ok maybe it won't open the door for worse.

most of the debt re after 2006 i expect was from trying to  make deals to fund the war,  which i still believe were in  our interest.

time will tell, but hee mideast going topsy turvy doesn't look promising.

487
The GOP, for all their flaws and bizarre notions, were doing grunt work to reduce the deficit for a few years there, and while they deserve some blame for what happened after, the tidal wave was blue not red.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 16, 2013 09:26 PM (bxiXv)

My point is, George Bush wasn't a deficit Hawk.  He just didn't care about limiting spending. He was too busy doing it himself. His Prescription drug program is an example of an UnNecessary increase in Federal Spending, and all it did was encourage the Democrats. 

My recollection is that attempts to limit spending during the Bush years were pretty much the efforts of fiscal conservatives in Congress.

He also agreed to Federalize the TSA as a sop to the Democrats, and now they are slowly trying to evolve into American Stasi.

488 Sad, our generation has lifeless e-mails. And Twitter. **** It's making a comeback, just like wrist-watches and thank you notes. The youngsters are beginning to long for the nostalgia and the connection. Of course, if schools keep eliminating cursive writing from their curriculum, then writing them is going to prove much more time-consuming.

489 That pic of Barky on Drudge is disturbing.

Doesn't it look like Dear Leader is looking right at that little boy's crotch?  Barry must have been wearing a Hairy Reed earpiece.

490 I don't watch news on TV anymore - no more FOX or anything.  My spirit and piece of mind can't take it anymore under King Barry's regime.  I read news on the internet to keep updated but I even limit that now.

I will not let them demoralize me.  The liberals in my life through family and marriage I keep at a distance.  They know why. I can't take their delusional rantings about conservatives or any criticism of their boyfriend.

491 i forgot, sunset provision didn' help, give a govt an inch well...

492 The right problem is Islam, the right answer is force. The one issue that the Republican Party could focus upon, and gain sympathy (either overt or covert) upon would be the obvious threat that tribes and strange totalitarian religions present to our way of life. Grow a beard, turn off the music, break the booze bottle, or die. Pretty simple.

493 488 I don't watch news on TV anymore

Same here.  And moreover I refuse to blow my shit over this.   Remember when conservatives were supposed to be naturally happy?  That's because we have lives, and can keep it all in proportion.   No the USA is not going to end if I turn my attention to personal life.

494 Of course, if schools keep eliminating cursive writing from their curriculum, then writing them is going to prove much more time-consuming.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 16, 2013 09:33 PM (piMMO

I was shocked that our son's elementary school didn't teach cursive in Illinois.  To this day, he prints (badly). 

I watched him sign his signature to his absentee voting form (hahahahahahah! that he never got) and he used his four initials.

The other day I saw Tucker Carlson uses his initials as well.

Weird.

495 >>>Sad, our generation has lifeless e-mails. And Twitter.

I know the nostalgia for the long hand is strong. But all is not bad in the modern world. The use of paper and pen was popular so much so as it was affordable, and convenient for its day. But too was it time consuming. If I were to die today. My son would have few hand written words by which to see the idiosyncrasies of my writing. Most of those would be notes on engineering. But he would grow up knowing far more about who I was and what I thought. All that I have committed in hours of convenience key clicking along side the other things of my life is a far greater volume about "Who is MikeTheMoose" than what most any kid of the pen and paper era would enjoy. He would not have the personal memento but he would have the much of the knowledge and ideas. What is really more important?

496 Cheri, i don't watch tv at all.

every now and then netflix with kids

books and cleaning, preparing soil for veggies  are my attempts at saving my mind.

497 finally, sanity. The other problem is that the people with the money in the GOP, while they may actually be conservative, are uncomfortable with emotionalism and politicing. They are refined latitudinarians and they simply don't want to be associated with people who have an extremist tone, even if they would actually agree with them in principle.

498 The other day I saw Tucker Carlson uses his initials as well **** Tucker Carlson is a complete moron on the issue of handwriting in schools. You should have heard him going off on what a waste and a brutality it is to require children to learn it.

499 Same here. And moreover I refuse to blow my shit over this. Remember when conservatives were supposed to be naturally happy? That's because we have lives, and can keep it all in proportion. No the USA is not going to end if I turn my attention to personal life.

Posted by: jeanne at January 16, 2013 09:36 PM (I7f+d)

I think it's going to end regardless of to what we turn our attention.   Hyperinflation is coming, and unless I am mistaken, so is a lot of killing. 

Great Depression Americans were hardy, reverent and ethical.  Today's lot are helpless,  agnostic and dishonest.   They will not be peaceful in their suffering.

500 484 Merovign, the thing i became agitated about re Bush was the patriot act, No argument here. time will tell, but hee mideast going topsy turvy doesn't look promising. Posted by: ette at January 16, 2013 09:32 PM (nqBYe) Iraq was a gigantic gamble, and I honestly think the way it ended sabotaged it, though whether there was ever any chance of success in the "larger mission" is crystal ball stuff. The "smaller mission" of killing bad guys racked up quite a total. And Afghanistan had good and bad days but ultimately mission creep and political BS, I think, killed it. My recollection is that attempts to limit spending during the Bush years were pretty much the efforts of fiscal conservatives in Congress. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 16, 2013 09:32 PM (bb5+k) Which is why I get so pissed at everyone's "Bushes' budget / Obama's budget" thing. It's fuckin' Congress. Now, the Senate has to agree, and the President can propose and interfere a lot, but all the focus on the President kind of gives the House a pass. A Republican House and Senate, with a Republican President, did cut the deficit to a small portion of what it had been. A Democrat House and Senate, with a weak Republican President, sent spending and deficits back to the stratosphere, and a Weak Republican House a few years later has proven inadequate to stop it with the Senate and President against them. But all people hear is "Bush budget Obama budget!"

501 Well, I still write thank-you notes.  And most of the people I know do as well.  My husband's socialist family members don't believe in thank-yous at all.

I'm Southern, so maybe that has something to do with it.  No decent young woman or man would dare to receive a gift for any celebration without writing a nice note.

Our son did for Eagle Scout and High School Grad.

502 I know the nostalgia for the long hand is strong. But all is not bad in the modern world. The use of paper and pen was popular so much so as it was affordable, and convenient for its day. But too was it time consuming. If I were to die today. My son would have few hand written words by which to see the idiosyncrasies of my writing. Most of those would be notes on engineering. But he would grow up knowing far more about who I was and what I thought. All that I have committed in hours of convenience key clicking along side the other things of my life is a far greater volume about "Who is MikeTheMoose" than what most any kid of the pen and paper era would enjoy. He would not have the personal memento but he would have the much of the knowledge and ideas. What is really more important? ***** The thing is, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

503 fwiw, I use cursive every day

504 Oh and if I find that the school doesn't teach him copperplate, he's going to learn what a copybook is.

505 Re#485 DiogenesLamp
"His Prescription drug program is an example of an UnNecessary increase in Federal Spending, and all it did was encourage the Democrats."

IIRC, Bush was faced with two bills: the Republican bill which represented the largest spending increase in the history of our country and the Democratic bill which was much worse.
There was never any question as to whether the Drug bill would pass, only how much it would cost.
Americans, including a lot of Republican voters, drove this.

The whole point of this post is to remind us that, ultimately, we are responsible for what our representatives do.

506

Never mind how they spend, etc. etc. can't some of the GOP fagettis even just publicly criticize the JEPOS? Just to make it sound good?

507 >The whole point of this post is to remind us that, ultimately, we are responsible for what our representatives do.



what if he's a gibbering leftwing dickhead?

508 We've just recently received written thank-you notes from friends for our hosting various functions.

And the wife is a native Chicagoan!  heh

509 >>>The thing is, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Well in the end, time is a opportunity cost type commodity. Sure I can do both *some* but every time I do one, it takes away from the other.

510 fwiw, I use cursive every day *** Despite my love for my Iphone, I strongly prefer to keep a notebook for my lists and projects.

511
   Don't be ashamed of feeling down and expressing it.  It's okay for a bit. 

   But you must never lose sight of the fact that WE are the makers, shakers, doers--whatever definition you care to use--and it is ultimately up to us to resolve the problem.

   Like most of you, I've no idea what will happen on the journey, only that I hold a clear vision of what my country was and WILL BE AGAIN.   Probably won't live long enough to see the resurrection,so sad .

  But as long as I breathe, the fight will continue.  Because I am an American, there is no other way.
 
   Laugh and call me corny or whatever else, but there it is.

512

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 16, 2013 09:32 PM (bb5+k)

 

The ONLY time the Repubs have been fiscaly conservative was when they had a viable THREAT to their Conservative power base, named Ross Perot and the Reform Party...

 

When they existed?  Repubs Governed as Fiscal Cons... Once Perot's rep had been ruined and the threat to their stranglehold on power was gone?  They went back to their overspending ways.... as exhibited under the Repub Congress's under the Bush Administration.

513 Tucker Carlson is a complete moron on the issue of handwriting in schools. You should have heard him going off on what a waste and a brutality it is to require children to learn it. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 16, 2013 09:39 PM (piMMO) I miss the old days...

514 I bow to you Iron Grandpa. Sometimes we need a gentle reminder.

515 Of course, if schools keep eliminating cursive writing from their curriculum, then writing them is going to prove much more time-consuming. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 16, 2013 09:33 PM (piMMO) This kind of stuff makes me so mad and is one reason we homeschool. Schools fail at their basic job -- basics!!! and then ask for more money and try to teach every other damn thing under the sun.

516 Think I will just go dial up the Book of Eli on Amazon .... via the Ace  Amazon widget, naturally, and hope for that sepia tone future to come swiftly. Have you remembered to hug your "Burn It All" sign  today?

517 I feel sorry for people who have the handwriting skills of Mongo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ciVBQixpU

518 "what if he's a gibbering leftwing dickhead?"

Then the idiots in your district are fault.
We can piss and moan about the politicians all we want, but when they get reelected then they're no longer the real problem.

519 my Mother and I used to send long missives before her death, and while i was newly married with babies ,  I have them in a box for the children, a couple of the children have actually read them and smiled at the advice and my responses.

telephoning was nice but extremely expensive , and would only be done  if we needed a fast response . back in the day.... (80s) heh

520 This kind of stuff makes me so mad and is one reason we homeschool. Schools fail at their basic job -- basics!!! and then ask for more money and try to teach every other damn thing under the sun. **** At one point I was working night shift and my daughter had primary residence with her dad and step mom. They enrolled her in a "performing arts" school. I was livid. I asked the principal what the other, non-performing students were doing during the day while my daughter took dance for two hours. Her response: Math and science.

521 you know what's amazing now , calling anywhere  u.s.a for 35 dollars a month!

522 I asked the principal what the other, non-performing students were doing during the day while my daughter took dance for two hours. Her response: Math and science. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 16, 2013 09:48 PM (piMMO) I don't believe it. They don't teach those things in school. They teach multiculturalism and sex ed.

523 I feel sorry for people who have the handwriting skills of Mongo *** HA!

524 New post up.  Thank Xenu.

525
Iraq was a gigantic gamble, and I honestly think the way it ended sabotaged it, though whether there was ever any chance of success in the "larger mission" is crystal ball stuff.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 16, 2013 09:40 PM (bxiXv)

Iraq is an example of where we very badly shot ourselves in the foot, and the mission very nearly died.  The Absolute STUPIDEST thing we did in Iraq was to announce that we were disbanding the Iraqi Army (Youse guys are now unemployed) and that anyone who had been a member of the Bath party (everyone in the existing and previous government structure) would not be allowed in the new government.  (The Entire Sunni and much of the Shia Tribe.)

With a few words, we took Millions of the most Dangerous people in that Nation, made them our enemy, and convinced them the only way they would ever prosper is to wipe out we Americans and push us out of the country.  That decision galvanized virtually all the Sunis against us, and dedicated them to our destruction.

A more militarily stupid decision could hardly have been made.  We didn't even do that to the Nazis after WW II.  I can't believe Paul Bremer thought up this bit of stupidity, and I also couldn't believe that all those War College Military officers did not scream bloody murder at what an idiot decision it was before he made the announcement.

The Consequences were absolutely predictable.  At the time, I told anyone who would listen that Iraq was about to get very ugly, and shortly thereafter the first bombs started going off.  What a clusterfucked up opportunity.

526 you know what's amazing now , calling anywhere u.s.a for 35 dollars a month! **** For all the bitching and moaning people do, I am still appreciative that for less than 50 cents you can mail a letter to anyone in the country within just a few days. I've always received great service from the USPS.

527 I don't believe it.

yeah I don't believe it either

if they were learning math and science for 2 hours a day in highschool, they wouldn't be such dumbshits when they got to my classes

528 if they were learning math and science for 2 hours a day in highschool, they wouldn't be such dumbshits when they got to my classes **** Elementary school! I always had the feeling the principal was displeased with what her school had become.

529
For all the bitching and moaning people do, I am still appreciative that for less than 50 cents you can mail a letter to anyone in the country within just a few days.

I've always received great service from the USPS.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 16, 2013 09:52 PM (piMMO)

yes

530
When they existed? Repubs Governed as Fiscal Cons... Once Perot's rep had been ruined and the threat to their stranglehold on power was gone? They went back to their overspending ways.... as exhibited under the Repub Congress's under the Bush Administration.

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 16, 2013 09:44 PM (lZBBB)

Correlation is not Causation.  I think there was a lot more to it than Perot.

531 One full week after paying through Zpaypal for my item, I am still waiting for it from UPS ground. While a shirt from Malaysia with half the shipping charges is here already.

532 Read your Rousseau: Most people want to be lied to. I actually think that's a part of mainstream conservative reaction to Ron Paul. He won't tell them they can be solvent and prudent and responsible just by cutting PBS, and they can still bomb Timbuktu and get their social security checks they're entitled to. We all know what Mitt Romney is liable to do but damn he sure talked a good game there. Quite seductive. We sometimes talk about how seductive it is, for the average idiot, to want to believe they're saving the whole fucking world and eliminating injustice by driving an electric car to the organic food market. How bad do you want to save the country, save the dream of freedom and meritocracy and rule of law? Do it while sitting on your couch? If you think opium is dangerous you should ban politics.

533 Timbuktu is in Mali, by the way. Don't be sure we won't literally.

534 We'll drop bombs on them that cost more than their GDP, keep interest rates at 0% and print money for the private defense contractors.

535 389 Stop whining about the Media. There's nothing you can do about it.

Thank you, SFGoth.  I guess we just need to roll over and die, then.  Since the Betters in the Media pretty much decide everything, let's not hinder them in any way whatsoever.  Let's let cretins like Piers Morgan and George Stephanowhatever frame every question, so that the Progressive-Liberal-Communist viewpoint is always, ALWAYS given the prefrential treatment.  We can't do ANYTHING about the media!  After all, they support gay marriage, and that's the litmus test for REAL constitutional governance, right?

I wish I hated the US as much as you do, SFGoth.

536 Because, you know, the Nicene Creed is clearly the epitome of evil. Or, wait....

537 For all the bitching and moaning people do, I am still appreciative that for less than 50 cents you can mail a letter to anyone in the country within just a few days. I've always received great service from the USPS. You pay more than 50 cents. The USPS operates at a loss and gets bailed out by the government constantly. They have almost no market wherever they have competitors. E-mail is ending them, but the only reason you can still send personal letters USPS at all is because companies like UPS and FedEx are legally banned from competing on letter carrying, the USPS has a literal monopoly on it, at least to the extent you don't count faxes and email. Also all their employees are unionized and a portion of every one of their salaries goes to electing machine democrats.

538 A Republican House and Senate, with a Republican President, did cut the deficit to a small portion of what it had been. When?? Eisenhower?

539 There is nothing wrong with the conservative movement.

On the other hand, the Republican Party has a whole lotta problems...

540 Call me a rebel nut if you will, but when conservatives are lauding movies like Lincoln they are not at all conservative and are totally clueless about the constitution and our history. People are acting like this all just snuck up on us. The GOP has not been conservative for a long time. Since long before any of us were even born.

541

The GOP's leadership stands up to the voters on occasion. Take the ever-present, above- and below-the-table push for amnesty, for example. Or in dumping tens of billion dollars to support government health programs and corrupt governments in Islamic and third-world shitholes in the name of "national security."

Or did you want examples of them actively opposing the voters for a conservative aim?

That's a different story.

542

Or take the bailouts.

They aren't just harmful in a benevolent, passive sort of way.

They will actively throw away conservative causes, even when they are overwhelming winning issues.

It is often malice, not merely incompetence.

543 Raise taxes on everybody, not just the rich, and all of sudden Republicans are cool again.

544 I agree that the few conservatives in Congress need to break from the GOP and create a third party that can form coalitions with either party that seeks similar objectives. Sadly, the GOP will kill them off politically because survival as a party is crucial to their world view and ability to remain "important men".

545
What purpose does the Democrat party serve?
I mean, other than to divide and conquer, harm our nation's soul, take from the productive to give to the politically connected, etc.?

The problem ultimately is with a system of rent-seeking that both voters and special interests are in on, and the Republican party is loathe to resist TOO much because they get punished by both. And yet, it was the trillions in spending money we dont have which gave the Democrats the very electoral edge.

Brilliant point to get voters to think like OWNERS, as those pulling the wagon and not riding it... but how?

Its a win/win for Republicans to bring the spend-money-we-dont-have game to a halt. How do we convince voters to think like owners not customers? How to get people to realize the cost of Government?

SPEND-GO. A simple rule that we stop spending money we dont have by limiting spending to $3.8 trillion this year, next year, every year.

The End.

546

You are wrong it is the GOPs fault that it is useless.

 

Think of all the leaders that have been effective even when in a far greater minority during our history and then look at the RINO leadership today.

 

Most of the current leadership is ashamed to be called conservative and they do not plan or even think about defending those values.  They play the "go along to get along" game.  They are like a gambler that folds his hand while holding three aces because the guy a crossed the table MIGHT be angry at them.

They allow the liberal socialist to intimidate them out of their socks rather than stand up to them.  The DNC has been doing this to them for the last decade usually whining about being “bipartisan” which the morons in the RNC leadership take to mean give us what we want and they do.

The conservative have become so timid that they allow the propaganda media to portray them as stupid or racist or bigots and they just go to their offices an suck their thumbs.  Because to them it is more important to be on the national news (for the folks back home) and getting re-elected than showing a shred of integrity or credibility.  Following the pattern they then go back to the home folks and say that instead of voting for a tax increase that they actually voted for tax reduction proving to the folks that they have had the Kool-Aid and turned into brain-dead eunuchÂ’s  of the Washington administration.

 

Do you wonder why the Congress of the United States are rated lower than pedophiles because the pedophiles are more trust worthy because you know what they are but you can never tell what a politician will turn into once the ego, privilege,  and corruption is met in Washington and you know they do not have the morals to do what is right just what looks good and pays well.  The longer they stay the worst they get, and the examples are endless.

 

547 If you want to see a tax deduction that moves America from a consumer of government to an ownership of government, please go to the web site www.problemsolvingforamerica.vpweb.com and read "A Vision for America". The first paragraphs are copied below. There are two possible visions for America. Imagine two major league baseball stadiums. In one stadium there are billionaire owners in sky boxes, millionaire players on the field and in the stands there are people at work selling soda, popcorn and peanuts and working for peanuts. The workers in the stands live in public housing, send their kids to public schools, have public health care, take public transportation, live on food stamps with government subsidized utilities and retire onto public pension plans. The billionaire owners and millionaire players pay taxes to support all those government programs. In another stadium there are billionaire owners in sky boxes, millionaire players on the field and in the stands there are people at work selling soda, popcorn and peanuts, but they are not working for peanuts. The billionaire owners and millionaire players pay the workers in the stands enough money to live in private housing, send their kids to private schools, have private health care, use private transportation, buy their own food and pay for their own utilities and retire onto private pension plans. Which one is your vision for America?

548 It's called democracy. Which means voters have a right to expect policies they favor will be enacted by politicians they elect. You got a problem with that? Fine. But don't expect much in the way of change. We're not going to become a dictatorship just because you don't like gun control.

549

For all the gripping about the post office, it is in the Constitution:

 

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".

 

Leave it to government to take a good idea and mke it stink.

550 Ran across this today and it makes sense to me. Take a page from their playbook. Balls, they work: “They hate me, and I welcome their hatred,” said FDR in the 1936 campaign. He believed that if a slice of the electorate was incorrigibly hostile, one ought not appease or court them, but use them as a whipping boy to rally the majority.

551 The only thing that we learn from history.... It was the Republicans under Reagan with the so called Reaganomics when the US economy started down ever increasing slippery slope from creditor to debtor nation. In 1981, shortly after taking office,The Gipper complained of "runaway deficits" that were then approaching US$80 billion, or about 2.5% GDP. But within only two years his policies had succeeded in enlarging the deficit to more than US$200 billion, or 6 % GDP. At the end of the Reagan/Bush era it was down to US$150 billion, still almost double what it had been under Carter. However the National Debt had  climbed from US$995 billion, when Reagan took office, to $4 trillion by the end of Bush1's presidency. Reagan and Bush Administrations increased it as a % GDP from 26% to 42%., Clinton managed hold/wind back both of them in returning the budget to a surplus of some US$280 billion and reducing the National Debt to 35% GDP.. But George, The Faux Texan and late encumbrance in the White House, even managed to outdo "The Gipper" and his own Dad. He set another unenviable record. The deficit was to be $482 billion in the 2009 budget moving from black to red ink in the order of US$750 billion from the end of Clinton's term. Partly caused by the Iraq Fiasco and the Afghan Imbroglio, The Three Trillion Dollar War. This the only conflict since the War of Independence to be fought on credit. Next came the Wall Street Tsunami which washed over the world and led to the GFC, the Global Financial Chicken that came home to roost. It was also under The Faux Texan that the US debt limit was raised seven times. All of which left a huge and noisome pile of financial and fiscal chicken ordure for any incoming Administration, Democrat or Republican. So much so that currently the USA needs to borrow about 40% of the funds needed to keep the it running. It is interesting to note that from 1978-2005 with 2 Democratic and 5 Republican Administrations these figures. Democratic  Federal Spending up by 9.9%. Federal Debt by 4.2%, GDP by 12.6%. Republican Federal Spending up 12.1%, Federal Debt by 36.4% , GDP by  10.7%