Ace of Spades HQ

October 11, 2013

Jay Cost on the Shutdown: Fight or Fold
— Ace

He seems to emphasize the "fold" option a bit more.

The findings of the newly released NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll are simply brutal for congressional Republicans. Not only are they getting the lion's share of the blame for the government shutdown, but President Obama's numbers have actually improved. Worse, Obamacare's numbers are improving, as well.
That poll caused quite a sensation on Twitter last night, and while it is worse for Republicans than recent readings from the Associated Press's poll, NBC News/Wall Street Journal has a long track record of solid readings. This is not a result to be taken lightly.
...
It was supposed to be a shutdown about Obamacare, but Republican leaders were quickly sidetracked by low-hanging fruit like the closure of the National Mall, Harry Reid's gaffes, and Obama's refusal to negotiate. Tactically, this might have made sense, but strategically it was a terrible move. If the shutdown was supposed to be about Obamacare, then that should have been the only topic Republicans discussed.

I, obviously, don't agree with that at all. If the Shutdown is supposed to "hurt Republicans," then Republicans gain by making it not hurt as much.

But the below is true:

Moreover, insofar as Republican leaders have discussed Obamacare, they have done so ineptly, and have repeated Mitt Romney's grievous mistakes from 2012. Looking at the topline numbers on Obamacare, we can see it is very unpopular, but dig a little deeper and only about 30 to 40 percent of people believe that the law will make them worse off. This is a significant failure in political communication by the Republican party. Government agencies like the Congressional Budget Office and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services have warned since 2010Â—in their dry, technocratic rhetoricÂ—that Obamacare was going to harm middle class families. For weeks now stories have been trickling out about people receiving letters from their insurers notifying them that their rates are being doubled. For over a year we have similarly heard stories about hiring freezes or hours being cut because of Obamacare. And yet despite all this hard data, the public still has not connected the dots.

Yup. This I don't get.

Meanwhile, believe it or not, Peggy Noonan now thinks it's the time to strike.

The Obama administration has an implementation problem. More than any administration of the modern era they know how to talk but have trouble doing. They give speeches about ObamaCare but when it's unveiled what the public sees is a Potemkin village designed by the noted architect Rube Goldberg. They speak ringingly about the case for action in Syria but can't build support in the U.S. foreign-policy community, in Congress, among the public. Recovery summer is always next summer. They have trouble implementing. Which, of course, is the most boring but crucial part of governing. It's not enough to talk, you must perform.
...
That gets us to the real story of last week, this week and the future, the one beyond the shutdown, the one that normal people are both fully aware of and fully understand, and that is the utter and catastrophic debut of ObamaCare. Even for those who expected problems, and that would be everyone who follows government, it has been a shock.
They had 3Â½ years to set it up! They knew exactly when it would be unveiled, on Oct. 1, 2013. On that date, they knew, millions could be expected to go online to see if they benefit.
...
Where does this leave us? Congressional Republicans and the White House may soon begin a series of conversations centering on the debt-ceiling fight. Good: May they turn into negotiations. Republicans are now talking about a grand bargain involving entitlement spending, perhaps tax issues. But they would make a mistake in dropping ObamaCare as an issue. A few weeks ago they mistakenly demanded defundingÂ—a move to please their base. They will be tempted to abandon even the word ObamaCare now, but this is exactly when they should keep, as the center of their message and their intent, not defunding ObamaCare but delaying it. Do they really want to turn abrupt focus to elusive Medicare cuts just when it has become obvious to the American people that parts of ObamaCare (like the ability to enroll!) are unworkable?
The Republicans should press harder than ever to delay ObamaCareÂ—to kick it back, allow the administration at least to create functioning websites, and improve what can be improved.
In the past the president has vowed he'd never delay. But that was before the system so famously flopped when people tried to enroll.

Eh.

See, here's one thing I definitely disagree with the Tactically Savvy (supposedly) folks on: They keep claiming-- agreeing with Obama and Jon Favreau -- that if only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss the colossal failure of ObamaCare, and the skyrocketing prices for health insurance.

Does anyone believe that? I can't imagine the people offering this dreck actually believe that. It sounds to me an awful lot like a Helpful Claim to Make, and not one that is actually believed.

Posted by: Ace at 02:13 PM | Comments (152)
Post contains 869 words, total size 6 kb.

1 I don't even fold my fitted sheets.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:15 PM (IXrOn)

2 They're just folding in the cowardice and clinging-to-power powder.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:16 PM (IXrOn)

3 This is so depressing. WTF!

Posted by: Puttanesca, the sauce at October 11, 2013 02:16 PM (1ThpN)

4 Why, am I talking to myself, here?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:16 PM (IXrOn)

5 Oh, hey Putta!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:17 PM (IXrOn)

6 6 olives ! At some point you've had enough olives, comrade

Posted by: Roman Maroni at October 11, 2013 02:18 PM (fJS4a)

7 that if only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss the colossal failure of ObamaCare, ************ Well I think something close to that argument. I think the news of ObamaCare gets drowned out by the shutdown theatre. The media can distract from the failure of ObamaCare more.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:18 PM (r2PLg)

8
Well, it appears they went ahead and said "OK, we fold".

It appears they are giving them everything plus more.

But they are teaching those T-partiers a lesson, so they feel good about themselves.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2013 02:18 PM (N8z9m)

9 I just don't believe R's are sincere, i think they're much more interested in using Obamacare as a tool to get out the vote for years to come, the same way they use abortion, social security and taxes, but never really do anything about them. i think the cloture vote that they all willingly lied about was proof that they're just not sincere. So it shouldn't come as any surprise that a party that never really wanted to get rid of Ocare (save for a few like Cruz) didn't sell it to the public and now the polls reflect their disinterest and i have no doubt they're all secretly happy about it.

Posted by: booger at October 11, 2013 02:19 PM (xRDdL)

10 For Chrissakes just fold and get it over with. We know you're going to.

Posted by: rrpjr at October 11, 2013 02:19 PM (GA5CS)

11 "Does anyone believe that? I can't imagine the people offering this dreck actually believe that. " They don't, but it's a useful club with which to beat up conservatives.

Posted by: holygoat at October 11, 2013 02:19 PM (HYFht)

12 Yup. This I don't get. Headlines.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:19 PM (IXrOn)

13 6 olives means I've had six martinis- With scotch I never how much I've had. *urp* 'scuse me.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at October 11, 2013 02:20 PM (4Mv1T)

14 All trolls are Average Joe and all polls are push polls, this one especially.

Posted by: Lauren at October 11, 2013 02:20 PM (ELdpj)

15 1 I don't even fold my fitted sheets. Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 06:15 PM (IXrOn) ************ Martha Stewart rolls hers. And Navy sub guys might--I think they roll their underwear--which is why both Montel Williams and Jimmy Carter are a little squirrelly.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:20 PM (r2PLg)

16 Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2013 06:18 PM (N8z9m) Boy, did we teach those TEA Party people a lesson they won't soon forget!

Posted by: J Bonaire at October 11, 2013 02:21 PM (XdnQT)

17 maybe I should add-- "more legitimately."

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (r2PLg)

18 How about 6 martinis and one olive? That"s what these losers make me want ! All this to just fold in the end?

Posted by: Puttanesca, the sauce at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (1ThpN)

19 How about 6 martinis and one olive? That"s what these losers make me want ! All this to just fold in the end?

Posted by: Puttanesca, the sauce at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (1ThpN)

20 Wait, Peggy Noonan has the Republican's best interests at heart right?
Right?

Posted by: Roman Maroni at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (fJS4a)

21 Wait, Peggy Noonan has the Republican's best interests at heart right?
Right?

Posted by: Roman Maroni at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (fJS4a)

22 YO JAY!! That poll's sample had 20% govt workers. The population as a whole is 5% govt workers.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (HDgX3)

23 YO JAY!! That poll's sample had 20% govt workers. The population as a whole is 5% govt workers.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (HDgX3)

24 As for messaging on Obamacare, all the GOP needs to do is pull comments off the healthcare.gov facebook page. They're brutal. A lot of people trying to sign up and failing, a lot of people being forced to buy expensive plans that they can't afford, just a big mess. It's a freaking gold mine for the GOP.

Posted by: Lauren at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (ELdpj)

25 As for messaging on Obamacare, all the GOP needs to do is pull comments off the healthcare.gov facebook page. They're brutal. A lot of people trying to sign up and failing, a lot of people being forced to buy expensive plans that they can't afford, just a big mess. It's a freaking gold mine for the GOP.

Posted by: Lauren at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (ELdpj)

26 The Republicans should press harder than ever to delay ObamaCare Yep. It's now or never. Cruz was right.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (IXrOn)

27 The Republicans should press harder than ever to delay ObamaCare Yep. It's now or never. Cruz was right.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (IXrOn)

28 Looking at the topline numbers on Obamacare, we can see it is very unpopular, but dig a little deeper and only about 30 to 40 percent of people believe that the law will make them worse off. The reason being is that the implementation is staggered across a number of years. People seem to believe they are going to be the last one eaten by the alligator. First they came for the unemployed, but I was employed, and I said nothing. Next they came for the employed, and cut their benefits and made them pay taxes on that benefit, but I made a lot of money and said nothing. Next they came for the union members, and cut their benefits and made them pay a lot of taxes on that benefit, but I made a lot of money and said nothing. Next they came for the employed, and cut their benefits and made them pay all the money they earned on that benefit, but no one was left to speak up for me.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (U2UQk)

29 Looking at the topline numbers on Obamacare, we can see it is very unpopular, but dig a little deeper and only about 30 to 40 percent of people believe that the law will make them worse off. The reason being is that the implementation is staggered across a number of years. People seem to believe they are going to be the last one eaten by the alligator. First they came for the unemployed, but I was employed, and I said nothing. Next they came for the employed, and cut their benefits and made them pay taxes on that benefit, but I made a lot of money and said nothing. Next they came for the union members, and cut their benefits and made them pay a lot of taxes on that benefit, but I made a lot of money and said nothing. Next they came for the employed, and cut their benefits and made them pay all the money they earned on that benefit, but no one was left to speak up for me.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (U2UQk)

30 Post needs more TruCon cat.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (Gk3SS)

31 Post needs more TruCon cat.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (Gk3SS)

32 WTF is Drudge talking about

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (CMlD4)

33 WTF is Drudge talking about

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:22 PM (CMlD4)

34 I am soooo sick of that stupid NBC/WSJ poll...and I'm sick of the media that keep quoting it. We're suppose to boycott NBC because they're Obama's media arm but 'all hail' their stupid 20% gov't. worker poll.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (bCEmE)

35 I am soooo sick of that stupid NBC/WSJ poll...and I'm sick of the media that keep quoting it. We're suppose to boycott NBC because they're Obama's media arm but 'all hail' their stupid 20% gov't. worker poll.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (bCEmE)

36 The American people want this shit. They wanted to swing left, they wanted higher taxes, higher spending, free shit from their government. They wanted to trade their freedom for security, and by God they will.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (8719b)

37 The American people want this shit. They wanted to swing left, they wanted higher taxes, higher spending, free shit from their government. They wanted to trade their freedom for security, and by God they will.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (8719b)

38 Peggy Noonan? The Peggy Noonan who gushed over TFG in '08 because of his "eloquence" and sophistication and towering intellect? That Peggy Noonan?

*yawn*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (lVPtV)

39 Peggy Noonan? The Peggy Noonan who gushed over TFG in '08 because of his "eloquence" and sophistication and towering intellect? That Peggy Noonan?

*yawn*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (lVPtV)

40

Jennifer Rubin ‏@JRubinBlogger

Trading is not negotiating!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (kdS6q)

41

Jennifer Rubin ‏@JRubinBlogger

Trading is not negotiating!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (kdS6q)

42
I will admit to this though, I believe the media can totally ignore Odeathcare and it will still be a problem for the dems. I think it is the one singular issue that that is the case.

When the low info young voters have figured out that "its a tax" on them and not free and they are pissed, then the media can't stop it.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (N8z9m)

43
I will admit to this though, I believe the media can totally ignore Odeathcare and it will still be a problem for the dems. I think it is the one singular issue that that is the case.

When the low info young voters have figured out that "its a tax" on them and not free and they are pissed, then the media can't stop it.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2013 02:23 PM (N8z9m)

44 Some analysis on the poll that killed republicans... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3077633/posts I cannot believe people like Jay Cost are falling for this shit.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (HDgX3)

45 Some analysis on the poll that killed republicans... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3077633/posts I cannot believe people like Jay Cost are falling for this shit.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (HDgX3)

46 Media obviously favors Obama and wouldn't be happy to highlight the failures. But they ARE covering them now, it's just lost in the shutdown hype.

The shutdown is sucking oxygen out of the story. Without it, they would have to find many other stories to fill the air time, and few would resonate with the public.

Posted by: Adjoran at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (473jB)

47 Media obviously favors Obama and wouldn't be happy to highlight the failures. But they ARE covering them now, it's just lost in the shutdown hype.

The shutdown is sucking oxygen out of the story. Without it, they would have to find many other stories to fill the air time, and few would resonate with the public.

Posted by: Adjoran at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (473jB)

48 The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has agreed to reopen more than 288,000 acres of wildlife lands in North Dakota that have been closed to public access since the federal government shutdown began on October 1.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Dan Ashe announced the reopening of Wildlife Service lands nationwide late today after he was informed of North DakotaÂ’s intent to file a complaint in U.S. District Court. The complaint, already completed and within minutes of being filed, requested a federal judge require the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to reopen more than 288,000 acres of wildlife lands closed to hunters and other public uses.

Posted by: President Barack “Unexpectedly Humble Thug” Obama at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (e8kgV)

49 The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has agreed to reopen more than 288,000 acres of wildlife lands in North Dakota that have been closed to public access since the federal government shutdown began on October 1.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Dan Ashe announced the reopening of Wildlife Service lands nationwide late today after he was informed of North DakotaÂ’s intent to file a complaint in U.S. District Court. The complaint, already completed and within minutes of being filed, requested a federal judge require the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to reopen more than 288,000 acres of wildlife lands closed to hunters and other public uses.

Posted by: President Barack “Unexpectedly Humble Thug” Obama at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (e8kgV)

50 6 olives means I've had six martinis- With scotch I never how much I've had. *urp* 'scuse me. Posted by: Tobacco Road at October 11, 2013 06:20 PM (4Mv1T) ha ONE martini, 6 olives, and I'm under the table. 3 oz vodka

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (IXrOn)

51 6 olives means I've had six martinis- With scotch I never how much I've had. *urp* 'scuse me. Posted by: Tobacco Road at October 11, 2013 06:20 PM (4Mv1T) ha ONE martini, 6 olives, and I'm under the table. 3 oz vodka

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (IXrOn)

52 Posted by: booger at October 11, 2013 06:19 PM (xRDdL) Remember they couldn't even cancel the 100 watt incandescent ban in spite of the global warming scam, the dangers of mercury in the home, and the loss of American jobs to China

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (XdnQT)

53 Horseshit, if it weren't for the shutdown theater, then media would be running cute stories of how many people wanted Obamacare - it crashed.

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (CMlD4)

54 I am just so damn tired of being ruled by the polls.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 02:24 PM (DmNpO)

55 I think the news of ObamaCare gets drowned out by the shutdown theatre. Aww baloney. They do the full-court press on any subject they want. Was Abu Gahraib worth however many weeks on the front pages? Was Trayvon Martin? Dr Gosnell should have been front page material for weeks. Crickets. They're Card Stacking. They know what they're doing. They'd be over reporting some other story if it weren't for the shutdown.

Posted by: bonhomme at October 11, 2013 02:25 PM (yETln)

56 "37 Horseshit, if it weren't for the shutdown theater, then media would be running cute stories of how many people wanted Obamacare - it crashed." Exactly. There is nothing that we can do or not do that will result in favorable media coverage. We have to bypass the media.

Posted by: Lauren at October 11, 2013 02:26 PM (ELdpj)

57 Look, who knows what the GOP is saying about all this because we only get 3 hours every 4 years to make our case to the American people. Even with FoxNews and Rush, the GOP is basically silenced. So maybe Boehner and company are making great points. It's never reported if they do.

Posted by: joeindc44 is totally not on Soros's pay now...right? at October 11, 2013 02:26 PM (QxSug)

58 More fun stuff from that ***NBC*** poll Sample was 43-32 Democrat. So it's 43-32 Democrat with 20% govt workers. And it's an NBC poll. And this is the poll that the GOP is caving for. Unreal.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:26 PM (HDgX3)

59 WTF is Drudge talking about *** Can you be more specific?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 02:26 PM (DmNpO)

60 Legislating in the hopes of approval by the MSM is too stupid to be called stupid.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 11, 2013 02:26 PM (ZshNr)

61 You know what?I really don't gove a shit anymore.I'm done caring about which party is fucking up the country more than the other.

Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2013 02:27 PM (9XBK2)

62 Speaking of bypassing the medai, what we really need is a moronPAC to start distributing our own ads and messaging. Surely we can make this happen.

Posted by: Lauren at October 11, 2013 02:27 PM (ELdpj)

63 WTF is Drudge talking about

He thinks we've surrendered. Fat lot he knows, I've only just begun to give up.

Posted by: Johnny B. at October 11, 2013 02:27 PM (2DunM)

64 The Republicans should press harder than ever to delay ObamaCare A delay is the worst of all possible outcomes, especially if it delays the pain until after the midterms.

Posted by: toby928© at October 11, 2013 02:27 PM (QupBk)

65 Jeebus H. Krust, you don't get into a major fight with a Marxist if you don't have the guts to fight to the bitter end. The symbol for Republican Party might as well be the fleur-de-lys. You know, tough on wimps but runs like hell from a good fight.

Posted by: SFGoth at October 11, 2013 02:27 PM (sXKCc)

66 We do need a clear strategy to crush the media. I favor a plan to auction off their spectrum. Make them fear us ...

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:28 PM (CMlD4)

Tea partiers need to really focus in 2014 on winning those 5-7 red state seats that currently have a dem Senator in them.....

...and we need to replace McConnell and Graham and whatever other mealy mouthed establishment types that are up for reelection in 2014. That asshat McCain started all this shit by calling Cruz Paul and Lee wacko birds.... time for the Tea Party to finish it.

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at October 11, 2013 02:28 PM (oAVHN)

68 I got in a fight with one of my husband's friends a few weeks ago over the upcoming Obamacare rollout. He insisted it was all ready to go (California, New York, and Massachusetts already had exchanges running, according to him), and most rates were going down (had already gone down in California and New York, according to him). He said the only thing wrong with Obamacare was that it was "nerfed" and should have been single payer from the beginning. He also insisted that the only thing wrong with government was the influence of "special interests," which he then explicitly defined as "the Koch brothers." I argued with him so angrily he finally went home angry and we haven't seen him since. He's supposed to come over Sunday to watch the ball game. If politics come up (which I really hope they don't) he will never admit the obamacare rollout is a disaster, even though he works in software and anybody with any background in software can see what a steaming pile of crap the exchange software is.

Nothing is going to convince Obama supporters they were wrong about him or his horrible "affordable" care act. They are too heavily invested. They're all in.

Posted by: not the mama at October 11, 2013 02:28 PM (5dxeo)

69 Okay-- Can someone on twitter ask Jay Cost to scroll to the bottom of the WSJ/NBC poll pdf- where it states-- 20% of the respondents are government workers Also ask Jay Cost if he believes the result at Q 15 where they find 31% of the respondents claim to be affected by the shutdown and they show that back in 1995 and 1996 only 18% claimed to be affected. I can see missing that 20% government worker thing because they buried it at the very bottom of the pdf.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:28 PM (r2PLg)

70 The GOP just does not understand that a strong stance, and a fight is what America wants and needs. With this fleeting/influx media headline era, it's tough to understand slogging it out to a long term goal, but it's needed. No one is really standing up for the country anymore. It's such a selfish Congress.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:29 PM (IXrOn)

71 The worst possible outcome is Obamacare.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 11, 2013 02:29 PM (ZshNr)

72 I have been a Republican my whole life, but I'm done. The Republican Party has become spineless and useless. They made a stand, and instead of standing firm, they have folded ridiculously.

Posted by: Pat at October 11, 2013 02:29 PM (agmR/)

They keep claiming-- agreeing with Obama and Jon Favreau -- that if only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss the colossal failure of ObamaCare, and the skyrocketing prices for health insurance.

Does anyone believe that?

No. It does give them an easy, bullshit excuse to blame Republicans for their own bias though.

Without the shutdown the Major Story would be the dissension within the Republican Party and the debt ceiling fight.

Would the failings of Obamacare get a bit more press if not for the shutdown? Maybe a little, but not enough to move the needle.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 11, 2013 02:29 PM (SY2Kh)

74 A delay is the worst of all possible outcomes, especially if it delays the pain until after the midterms. *** A one-year delay would roll out just prior to the midterms. Americans tend to have a short memory span. Hitting them immediately before they vote might not be a bad thing.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 02:30 PM (DmNpO)

75 A one-year delay would roll out just prior to the midterms. Except that if a one-year delay looks likely, due the the steaming clusterfuck that is the roll-out, Harry Reid could just offer up a two year delay. How could the Republican's refuse?

Posted by: toby928© at October 11, 2013 02:32 PM (QupBk)

76 I should say nothing is going to convince Obama supporters they were wrong about him or his horrible "affordable" care act *except* maybe actually feeling it in their pocket book when the whole plan gets implemented. Even then, I predict it will all be the Koch brother's fault.

Posted by: not the mama at October 11, 2013 02:32 PM (5dxeo)

77 Sorry I overshot with the bold. and actually it is this outfit that did the polling. Hart Research Associates/Public Opinion Strategies Hell we can't even get Ace to notice that 20% of the respondents were government workers-- self reporting government workers.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (r2PLg)

78 Posted by: Hrothgar at October 11, 2013 06:24 PM (XdnQT) Yeah i do, and that's a repeating theme with them, now is never the time to fight, this isn't the hill to die on etc, they always say that sometime in the future it'll be time ti fight but that day never comes with them. Their super smart strategy always boils down to give up now for a fake promise of something at an untold date in the future.

Posted by: booger at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (xRDdL)

79 He's supposed to come over Sunday to watch the ball game. If politics come up (which I really hope they don't) he will never admit the obamacare rollout is a disaster, even though he works in software and anybody with any background in software can see what a steaming pile of crap the exchange software is. Nothing is going to convince Obama supporters they were wrong about him or his horrible "affordable" care act. They are too heavily invested. They're all in. Posted by: not the mama at October 11, 2013 06:28 PM (5dxeo) oy people really need to feel the pain to get it, but, then, like you said, they find other reasons/excuses for the failure We need someone who does the opposite, and pleases them. Really makes their life better and explains why. Picard: Make it so.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (IXrOn)

80 If only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss ~~the colossal failure of ObamaCare~~ ~~and the skyrocketing prices for health insurance~~ illegal high school valedictorians living in the shadows; AR15 rifles, AR15 handguns, and AR15 shotguns; crazy superstitious Tea Partiers who hate homos and black people; and Todd Akin's views on rape

corrected

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (8ZskC)

81 "Even then, I predict it will all be the Koch brother's fault." Nope, evil insurance companies based in the Bahamas. Koch brothers are to blame for global warming.

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (CMlD4)

82 screw it.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 11, 2013 02:33 PM (8ZskC)

83 if only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss the colossal failure of ObamaCare, and the skyrocketing prices for health insurance. Does anyone believe that?

No. I do not believe the Media would, or will ever, discuss something harmful to Democrats. It will not happen, ever. The Media got a very painful lesson in 2010 and, no matter what else you can say about them, they learned from that lesson. No criticism of Democrats at all (unless they self-destruct like Weiner).

Posted by: Null at October 11, 2013 02:34 PM (DuH+r)

84 Sorry I overshot with the bold. Easier for me to read!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:34 PM (IXrOn)

85 Republicans retreat from US budget hard line. But of course, darling.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 11, 2013 02:34 PM (MhA4j)

86 64. If only there was no shutdown, the media would be eager to discuss their own awesomeness

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 11, 2013 02:35 PM (MhA4j)

87 52. Does he know anyone with insurance in those states. I live in mass and rates have gone way up since romneycare kicked in. A least ours has but it's through the employer. For now. Waiting for that ball to drop soon.

Posted by: Puttanesca, the sauce at October 11, 2013 02:35 PM (1ThpN)

88 Should the Catholic church embrace abortion? How 'bout the Mormons and gay marriage? How far is one willing to capsize one's principles in order to be liked by the cool kids?

Will the Republicans lose? Yeah, but they'll lose anyway. The commies are in too deep at this point. Might as well go down with honor and integrity and wait for the spring buds of a new national movement (third party? Secession? Revolution?) to clean house top to bottom.

Enough with the band-aids on a gaping chest wound. Never give up, never surrender!

Posted by: Kate58 at October 11, 2013 02:35 PM (oLZsm)

89 68 Sorry I overshot with the bold. Easier for me to read! Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 06:34 PM (IXrOn) *********** Man you don't know how many errors I make because I refuse to wear my glasses--it's stupid of me.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:35 PM (r2PLg)

90 Posted by: booger at October 11, 2013 06:33 PM (xRDdL)

By the time the ruling RINO class has identified the right "hill to die on", the rest of us will be in the camps, comrade!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 11, 2013 02:36 PM (XdnQT)

91 This poll oversampled not only Democrats but govt. workers.A dodgy poll is all it takes to make the establishment GOP piss its collective pants? The one question that indicates a bit more favorability towards Obamacare was really strange considering the govt can't even verify anybody signed up for it.

In 2014 the shutdown will be a memory but the reality of the Obamacare shit sandwich will be with us. More people will see it does impact them: wait until people start getting 'denial of care notices,' doctors who won't take their shitty plans, and massive out of pocket costs.

Posted by: Kim at October 11, 2013 02:36 PM (ICqvM)

92 Yeah, fuckitall....just give 'em everything they want and be done with it. We can't beat the media/education system and no one is even trying.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 11, 2013 02:37 PM (bCEmE)

93 This is a significant failure in political communication by the Republican party.

HAHAHAHAHAHA No! The Republicans fail at communication? The deuce you say!

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 11, 2013 02:38 PM (xm1A1)

94 Obamacare is polling better? How is that possible? Who're they polling, the dead? If the dead can vote for democrats, they certainly poll positively for obamacare.

Posted by: boned to the bone at October 11, 2013 02:38 PM (Ph479)

95 Yeah, fuckitall....just give 'em everything they want and be done with it. We can't beat the media/education system and no one is even trying.

Posted by: Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 11, 2013 06:37 PM (bCEmE)

Now there's a plan I can have my clients support!

Posted by: Karl Rover at October 11, 2013 02:38 PM (XdnQT)

96 We really need to understand the media is our enemy, and at this point the Democratic party is just its shadow puppet. They need to understand that their refusal of their traditional role in the 4th estate will bring them political and economic pain. Not just being locked out of a few debates - you've gotta hit them in their pocketbooks.

Auction off their spectrum, make the networks compete against Verizon. Lets see if they can pay barely literate whores millions when Verizon and AT&T are bidding up their broadcast rights by billions. Ben Franklin had to pay for his own ink - the government didn't provide it to him.

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:39 PM (CMlD4)

97 77 This is a significant failure in political communication by the Republican party. HAHAHAHAHAHA No! The Republicans fail at communication? The deuce you say! Posted by: OregonMuse ********* even with media embargo, Obama still dropping to 37%

Posted by: joeindc44 is totally not on Soros's pay now...right? at October 11, 2013 02:39 PM (QxSug)

98 Jezzuz gawd I swear every blogger should take one course in statistics--then they would know-- a sample that found 20% self reporting government employees--has problems with randomization or something else. Honestly why the hell is this not making past the J school wall.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:40 PM (r2PLg)

99 People don't vote for "Congress", they vote for a person. Congress' poll numbers are always shit yet incumbents win an inordinate number of elections.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 11, 2013 02:40 PM (9jLim)

100 Honestly why the hell is this not making ^it^ past the J-school wall.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:41 PM (r2PLg)

101 The grand bargain only makes sense if part of the grand bargain is Obamacare. The donks have made it clear.....it won't be. So, we are fighting to reform Social Security so that can be used against us? --- Maybe it's a reverse psychology thing and they think this way Hairy and 'Bammy will be begging us to end Zerocare. That makes as much sense as anything else.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 11, 2013 02:41 PM (PjgvN)

102 @75

And the cherry on top of the shitcake is they are going to undue the sequester "cuts!"

So not only does Obama/dems get everything they want, they get something that wasn't even on the table.

Boehner is one wicked smart operator.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 11, 2013 02:42 PM (hmUex)

103 time for dancin' with hubby have a great weekend, all *cheers

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: dancin' & sippin' martini w 6 olives! at October 11, 2013 02:42 PM (IXrOn)

104 "
a sample that found 20% self reporting government employees--has problems with randomization or something else. "

You would have trouble getting those numbers in the Pentagon City food court

Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2013 02:42 PM (CMlD4)

105
Yes citizens, we're gonna take it up the ass, but it's good for the country!

Posted by: House Republican's at October 11, 2013 02:42 PM (pJF+c)

106 George Will is so boring.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 02:43 PM (ZPrif)

107 People don't vote for "Congress", they vote for a person. Congress' poll numbers are always shit yet incumbents win an inordinate number of elections.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 11, 2013 06:40 PM (9jLim)

The deuce you say!

Posted by: Gerry Mander at October 11, 2013 02:43 PM (XdnQT)

108
Ben Domenech Ã¢Â€Â@bdomenech

Greatest deal ever: K Street gets the medical device tax rollback in exchange for raising your taxes/premiums.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 11, 2013 02:43 PM (kdS6q)

109 "And yet despite all this hard data, the public still has not connected the dots." I disagree with you Ace. I think that people realize they've been sold a load of crap and that it's gonna cost them financially and in terms of their doctor/health care arrangements. People are pissed. So now the media whores are screeching about what a dismal failure the rollout was and how drastically the changes in health premiums and services are going to be. Where was all of this 'investigative journalism' and questioning during the debate leading up to the passage of the Act? I think this is just the MSM trying to distance itself from the ghastly consequences of their complicity in this crap sandwich. And furthermore, this whole government shut down act is nothing more than a screen to give the GOP leadership cover for their feckless, spineless lackadaisical efforts to 'defund' Obamacare.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 11, 2013 02:43 PM (P/47D)

110 George Will is Krauthammer without the wit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 02:43 PM (ZPrif)

111

of course they're going to fold..........

like eli manning against the awesome defense of Da BEARS!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: navycopjoe at October 11, 2013 02:44 PM (FDSEc)

112 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right? Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 02:45 PM (ZPrif)

113 Boehner is one wicked smart operator.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 11, 2013 06:42 PM (hmUex)

Playing 13 dimensional chess, again!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 11, 2013 02:45 PM (XdnQT)

114 there goes the GOP again, trying to win Jon Stewart's approval...well, if he doesn't like us, may as well give up.

Posted by: joeindc44 is totally not on Soros's pay now...right? at October 11, 2013 02:47 PM (QxSug)

115 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right? Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased? *** I am just flat out fed up with the fucking polls.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 02:47 PM (DmNpO)

116

OT: Canadian IT company CGI built the Obamacide website. Yes, they outsourced it.

For us, special price, $515 million.

I now return you to your regular snark.

Posted by: Meremortal at October 11, 2013 02:47 PM (1Y+hH)

117
We're folding like a Japanese origami vagina.

Posted by: Republican Tipster at October 11, 2013 02:47 PM (pJF+c)

118 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right?
Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

Is a poll with a 20% government worker cohort an honest representation of the voting public?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 11, 2013 02:47 PM (jo069)

119 Great. New poll thread up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 02:48 PM (DmNpO)

120
Update: 2 year old son of Adrian Peterson has died.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2013 02:48 PM (N8z9m)

121 I am just flat out fed up with the fucking polls. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 11, 2013 06:47 PM (DmNpO) Well don't go to the new thread then....ARGH!

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami - GO CARDS!!! at October 11, 2013 02:48 PM (bCEmE)

122 the bullshit poll just gave cover, gave the sellout fucktards an excuse. they were going to cave anyway. fuck. them. all. Let It Burn

Posted by: ghostofhallelujah at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (XvrTA)

123
The Kraut is as flat today as Rachel Corrie's liver.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (pJF+c)

124 67 ---No. I do not believe the Media would, or will ever, discuss something harmful to Democrats....No criticism of Democrats at all (unless they self-destruct like Weiner)." Posted by: Null at October 11, 2013 06:34 PM (DuH+r) ---------------------- THIS. And if it had not been a primary situation, if Weiner had been facing even a RINO, the media would have smoothed over that story.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (dfYL9)

125 It's all coastal elitist propoganda. In the simpliest demographic terms who does this law help? It helps over budget left wing states, states owned lock stock and barrel by lawyers, not businessmen, and these lawyers found a way to stick it to the conservative less fiscally and reckless and more pro business states. Texas insured are going to underwrite California insured. Texas has tort reform. California does not. MY 185/mont policy in Texas costs 335/month in California today. They are on an unsustainable trajectory. This is territorial theft through taxation. Think about that.

Posted by: pc at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (zeWyX)

126 Yeah i do, and that's a repeating theme with them, now is never the time to fight, this isn't the hill to die on etc, they always say that sometime in the future it'll be time ti fight but that day never comes with them. Their super smart strategy always boils down to give up now for a fake promise of something at an untold date in the future.

Posted by: booger at October 11, 2013 06:33 PM (xRDdL)

not Only That, but when they solicite for Funds, it is to Fight for ___! help us fight for____!

Posted by: willow at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (nqBYe)

127 Gosh, for a minute there I was actually feeling like a citizen of free republic instead of a subject of a god-king.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (PjgvN)

128 solicit

Posted by: willow at October 11, 2013 02:49 PM (nqBYe)

129 I don't understand the vitriol directed at ObamaCare. Sure it took me many hours to create an account and choose a plan that mom could somehow pay for out of grocery money, but in the end I got a nice email from someone named 'Barry' who noticed my name, thanked me for doing the responsible thing (I did not mention my mom) and suggested we 'hook up' some night.

Posted by: Dixie Normous at October 11, 2013 02:51 PM (U2UQk)

130 The polls matter. You can't just ignore them. There was lots of "f the polls" talk in the 08 and 12 elections. That didn't work out well for us. It's important to pay attention to the polls so you know when you are losing so you can adjust your tactics.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 02:51 PM (ZPrif)

131 96 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right? Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased? Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 06:45 PM (ZPrif) ************* Have you looked at the pdf? Hell I have been reading them for years--and I missed where they buried the demographic information about-- where the respondents work. Let me ask you this? Do you understand the theory of randomization and modeling in polling? Basically you want to get a random sample yet also at the same time have that sample reflect the larger population that you are trying to draw conclusions about- as a whole. So now--ask yourself this-- do you believe that 20% of the US population is employed by the government? Also--go to the pdf at Q 15 and ask yourself if you believe-- at the time when the poll was conducted if -- 31% of the respondents should truly be 'affected by the shutdown." Then---look at the results to that same question that Hart found back in 1995, and 1996--when only-- 18% said they were affected by the shutdowns at that time. Then ask yourself if that is a significant--outside the margin of error result---that you should at least mention in your write up of your findings and/or conclusions.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)

132 96 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right? Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased? Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 06:45 PM (ZPrif) ________ Dude a poll that has 20% of the respondents as govt workers? If that's not biased I don't know what is.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:52 PM (HDgX3)

133 McCain, Boehner, Rove ....

FUCK YOU TOO !!!

Posted by: Lt Col Frank Slade at October 11, 2013 02:52 PM (aTXUx)

134 Nothing is going to convince Obama supporters they were wrong about him or his horrible "affordable" care act. They are too heavily invested. They're all in.

Democrats like to think they are well informed, but they are not, and liberalism makes them incapable of being informed. They look at the candidates, see which one has a (D) after his name, and their decision is made.

In terms of messaging, they like hearing what Democrats say, which is "We want to help people." The makes them feel like they're doing something. Republicans too often say "We want to help people. Here's how..." and the Democrats simply cannot deal with the "here's how" bit, because that implies having to do something other than have nice thoughts.

Posted by: Null at October 11, 2013 02:52 PM (DuH+r)

135 Follow the money.
1. Which industries and political entities have the most to gain out of keeping ObamaCare the law of the land?
2. Those who have the most to gain will lavish money on ObamaCare-supporting politicians of both parties
3. Those politicians will scorn and scold anti-ObamaCare politicians because self-preservation
4. Politicians at the federal level find it much easier to accept money from K Street bundlers (industrial lobbyists) than ask "the people" for financial support.
5.Politicians will be very sympathetic to the wishes of those who paid for their campaigns.

Posted by: mrp at October 11, 2013 02:53 PM (HjPtV)

136

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 06:45 PM (ZPrif) ..... .....

We are supposed to be poll driven? ....

In a country that reelected Obama? ......

No thanks.

Posted by: Meremortal at October 11, 2013 02:53 PM (1Y+hH)

137 "96 We can admit the Repubs are getting crushed in the polls, right?
Or are we denying the polls and claiming they are biased?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 06:45 PM (ZPrif)"

This thing was always going to lower Republican poll numbers, given that the MSM narrative is, was and always will be that this is all their fault. In the long term, though, Republicans could benefit if they could hold out. That was the lesson of 1995 if the Republicans could remember it. When the Obama Administration memoirs come out in a few years, all of them will have a section about how they were on the point of collapse when the Republicans gave up. Just like all the Clinton Administration memoirs.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 11, 2013 02:53 PM (q1sF4)

138 General population: 5% of people works for the govt NBC poll: 20% of the population works for the govt Nothing to see here folks, keep moving.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:53 PM (HDgX3)

139
But they are teaching those T-partiers a lesson, so they feel good about themselves.

They're going to feel just super fab when they start begging me for money and support in a few months.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 11, 2013 02:54 PM (0IhFx)

140
What say we call the shutdown what it in fact is--a PARTIAL closure of selected government functions, designed to inflict pain on the citizenry.

In the name of accuracy, you understand.

Posted by: irongrampa at October 11, 2013 02:55 PM (SAMxH)

141 It's important to pay attention to the polls so you know when you are losing so you can adjust your tactics. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 11, 2013 06:51 PM (ZPrif) ************* Well I agree with that. And I was at the same place you are until people started commenting about the 20% government workers. Then I looked at the pdf---got hung up on what looks like an anomaly or outlier at Q 15 and missed-- the 20% government worker fact because they buried it at the very bottom of the report--when it should be more properly placed at the beginning screening demographic questions at the start of the report. Go take a look at it.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)

142 The only thing that will connect with the average voter is the giant bill & 5000 dollar deductible they're going to get in a few months for their "new" health plan. The GOP should have let it happen and then struck hard on the next CR...but then that would have required strategy.

Posted by: jjshaka at October 11, 2013 02:55 PM (Y3YH6)

143 Lets just say for the moment that 'the polls' are correct. They're nothing but a snapshot in time, a point on the secant line for the given domain of a function. If the GOP leadership only cares about is raising donor money and retaining seats, then they're nothing but useless parasites. If they're serious about getting this crap sandwich off the table they're nothing but miserable failures. Either way they need to go.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at October 11, 2013 02:56 PM (P/47D)

144 If the republicans fold on this, I am DONE with them. I've been a registered Republican for almost 50 years, but the present crop of useless pieces of human shit have finished me. Fucking idiots.

In any case, both NBC and the Wall Street Journal are blazing liberals and serial liars. So their poll is worse than useless anyway. So if Boehner is stupid enough to fall for this crap, and lacks even any wisp of dignity or personal honor, I guess we're going down the tubes.

Besides that, this is a republic and if 57 % of the population want starvation, slavery, unlimited misery and death, I guess the few remaining sane people cna't do much about it.

I get up in the morning and when I get to my office, look at the news, hoping against hope that an asteroid has utterly pulverized Washington DC and environs. And no, I'm not joking.

Posted by: GaryS at October 11, 2013 02:56 PM (B+OH+)

145 Election polls were said to be biased because people though no way could the same D+7 that happened in 2008 happen in 2012. Well it did. OK. Nobody knew for sure what the D+ would be. But we know for sure, 100%, that 20% of the population does NOT work for teh govt. We have census data that tells us very clearly the number is 5%. This poll over-sampled the very people who have an incentive to say I LOVE GOVT. It didn't over sample left handed people with green eyes. It over sampled GOVERNMENT WORKERS. This is simply not a coincidence. Flatbush, if you don't see this, you're not looking.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 11, 2013 02:57 PM (HDgX3)

146 I'm pretty sure the rinos have or soon will clobber the shutdown. I can't say they don't have some legitimate concerns that Barky might use a debt ceiling limit to try to cause a real crisis although Putin has shown that all it takes to get Barky to cave is firm resolve on the real issue and giving him some kind of phony win. So the GOP could probably win this with "delay for 1 year and we give 700 million to fix the problems with the 683 million dollar web system" At less than one billion that would be a damn cheap way to win.

What I'd like to see is a 'private sector shutdown' Get Beck and other folks to sponsor a pledge that "I will shut down my business or take leave and make zero purchases the week or day(s) of (pick a target) unless a budget deal that cuts the 2014 projected deficit to xxx amount and/or delays Obamacare for one year is reached by then" I know a lot of people would go "but *I* cant afford to do that, I have to pay for the kid's dancing lessons" but imagine the effect if 10% of the productive class did this and the MFM and pols were confronted with what will happen if the people that fund their vote buying schemes go on strike.

Posted by: palerider at October 11, 2013 02:58 PM (dkExz)

147 IMO the repubs in the house should send the senate a bill that does NOT allow any exemptions for Ocare and forces congress critters and their minions to pay 100% of their insurance costs. It needs to be made clear to all but the dumbest of the LIV that everyone suffers when you vote for whores, thieves, and assorted sociopaths. Now, excuse me I have an incoming call on the Obama smart phone.

Posted by: angel with a sword at October 11, 2013 02:58 PM (hpgw1)

148 Flatbush Joe here is a link to the internals of the poll the pdf You know how to close the gap. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/ A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/Oct_poll.pdf

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 03:01 PM (r2PLg)

149 New thread-- sort of same subject and I think they are still missing the 20% government workers thing--above the fold.

Posted by: tasker at October 11, 2013 03:02 PM (r2PLg)

150 Meh As soon as soon as the shutdown ends the Dims will dangle another shiny toy in front of the MFM like the war on Women or something equally stupid And the MFM will run with it. The Dims hate the shutdown because it's harder to control the narrative Just wait for the new shiny meme about the evil reps

Posted by: Cachaca at October 11, 2013 03:25 PM (0cMkb)

151 Something I learned over 16.5 years of litigating: when you think you're being really, really, rilly clever, you're being stupid.

Posted by: SFGoth at October 11, 2013 04:00 PM (sXKCc)

152 ...but President Obama's numbers have actually improved. Worse, Obamacare's numbers are improving, as well. That's reason enough to believe that this "poll" is nothing more than a pile of shit.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 11, 2013 07:06 PM (/IXKu)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.

155kb generated in CPU 0.1014, elapsed 0.2937 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.2544 seconds, 280 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.