March 07, 2013

Jeff Zucker Succeeds in Transforming CNN Into MSNBC White
— Ace

The network that once gave serious coverage to Code Pink (when Bush was president) now thinks Rand Paul is just a silly boringhead who's boring.

This is important to MSNBC White for several reasons. The most important reason is helping CNN's liberal audience -- which likes to consider itself enlightened and Deeply Concerned about civil liberties -- cope with the cognitive dissonance of supporting Barack Obama, who asserts the right to kill Americans on American soil even if there is no ticking-timebomb urgency and Dick Durbin, who objects to a Sense of the Senate Resolution stating that the president is not allowed to murder people.

The second reason is simply to support Obama. Obama always gets the Tone of Seriousness and Heroism in CNN's reporting; anyone who challenges him gets the Tone of Comedy, of Ridicule, of Triviality.

It doesn't matter what people do or say. We're accustomed to watching movies and TV, in which the what a character says or does is only incidental to his Heroism. The main determinant of whether someone's a hero or villain is simply how the movie treats him tonally.

Only the Designated Hero Wins Applause. AP edits out the standing ovation Paul received at the conclusion of his filibuster.

Even though Paul is making the same objections AP (and Erin Burnett) used to make -- and considered themselves quite Heroic for so objecting -- he can't be the Hero because we already know King Barack is the Hero.

So Paul must be the Clown or the Villain. A movie can only have one Hero.


Posted by: Ace at 09:26 AM | Comments (277)
Post contains 279 words, total size 2 kb.

1 The main determinant of whether someone's a hero or villain is simply how the movie treats him tonally. Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero? Lolita is the literary example I can think of, although I think it's the opposite direction, I think you're supposed to grow to hate him.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 07, 2013 09:29 AM (T0NGe)

2 >>>Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero? well James Bond isn't a terribly nice person.

Posted by: ace at March 07, 2013 09:30 AM (LCRYB)

3 In YOLT he kills a common security guard and doesn't even comment upon it.

Posted by: ace at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (LCRYB)

4 Killing us with healthcare aught to be the next topic of filibuster.

Posted by: sTevo at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (qptIN)

5 This plays right into Piers Morgan's wheelhouse.

Posted by: Fritz at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (UzPAd)

6 The gatekeepers of information. Just a little trickle is all that's needed.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (E7Qlq)

7 >>>well James Bond isn't a terribly nice person.

I also seem to recall John Rambo being, in fact, a hallucinatory, violent killer who blew up half a town because somewhere in his mind he was reliving Vietnam.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (bcLhD)

8 Communist News Network. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 07, 2013 09:31 AM (UOM48)

9 >  Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?

Han Solo was basically a drugrunner, but Star Wars makes him out to be a lovable rapscallion.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 07, 2013 09:32 AM (ZWvOb)

10 can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?

Every heist movie ever?

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 07, 2013 09:32 AM (vBSha)

11 Are we still in the complaining phase? Still whinning about how unfair it is? Let me know when we stop complaining and start organizing together to fight the root of our problems: the media. What problems are not exacerbated by the corrupt media?

Posted by: GardenGnome at March 07, 2013 09:32 AM (Io7hX)

12 Worship me moar please. NOW !

Posted by: Barack Obama at March 07, 2013 09:32 AM (AWmfW)

13 The Oceans movies?  The Godfather movies?  Goodfellas?

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 07, 2013 09:33 AM (ZWvOb)

14 Propaganda has always been a shameful thing.   And yet they sleep at night.

Posted by: Flaming Toaster of Dave Barry at March 07, 2013 09:33 AM (LYwCh)

15 Paul is white, Ogabe is black.  The science is settled.

Posted by: @PurpAv at March 07, 2013 09:33 AM (/gHaE)

16 Give CNN a break. They can only compete with those organizations in their weight class. They've spent years trying to punch above their weight and have only been bloodied and bruised for the effort.

Posted by: Ken in NH at March 07, 2013 09:33 AM (N9thc)

17 ace, they're not completely "white."  They have Don Lemon.  Black + ghey.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 07, 2013 09:34 AM (UOM48)

18 O/T again but too good not to share;

Paul Krugman Declares Personal Bankruptcy

http://tinyurl.com/atz3362

Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 09:34 AM (mCvL4)

19 The ball on that guy

Posted by: Two ton Tony from NJ at March 07, 2013 09:34 AM (0K4Xj)

20 By the way...


If Reince Preibus and the RNC have their shit together, they should now be putting together a training program for every elected Republican in the country on how to filibuster... with a reproduction of the Senate floor built underground to practice on and a medical team tasks with getting them acclimated to the cath'.

RNC donors should demand nothing less than that.

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 07, 2013 09:35 AM (UypUQ)

21 The whole anti-hero trope is the bad guy being a hero in cinema. You can go all the way back to the old Bogey hard-boiled detective movies for early examples.

Posted by: Clownf*cker at March 07, 2013 09:35 AM (+hPIb)

22 Lolita actually strikes me as tbe best possible example of showing over telling. Humbert spends all his time telling you how brilliant and attractive and not a rapist he is at first. You get the real story from the other characters reactions, like where Lolita jumps away from him "as if she were relieved to be interrupted" and the waitress who sees the scratches where Lolita fought back.

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at March 07, 2013 09:35 AM (qfMZe)

23 Worship me moar please. NOW !
Posted by: Barack Obama

Sigh. Ok, but the the record reflect that my jaw aches and my knees have given out.

Posted by: John McCain [/i] [/b] at March 07, 2013 09:35 AM (fMgJk)

24 18 O/T again but too good not to share;

Paul Krugman Declares Personal Bankruptcy

http://tinyurl.com/atz3362



I think I'll going to kill myself.

Posted by: Paul Krugman at March 07, 2013 09:36 AM (UOM48)

25 So CNN and MSNBC are Jem'Hadar addicted to "the white"? Then accept this gift from the MFM Founders. May it keep you strongly Dem.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 07, 2013 09:36 AM (ORGYc)

26 Ace, crawl up CNN reporters asses and demand their PERSONAL justification for domestic drone strikes, not Obama's

Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 09:36 AM (mCvL4)

27 Doesn't matter if he's boring. The longest filibuster since the 1960s... it's news, they should report it. But they don't report news, they report propaganda.

Posted by: Andrew at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (HS3dy)

28 Maybe not a movie, but Tony Soprano was a horrible person who came across as a hero to many.

IDK if Chase intended that entirely, but it happened.

Posted by: The Q at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (yVmMc)

29 "If Reince Preibus and the RNC have their shit together"

please. these guys performed a clusterfuck GOTV program in the middle of an election where a President who gets about 10% approval from Republicans was up for election. Micheal Steele of all people did better then him. I opposed his re-election as chair for a reason.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (yAor6)

30

Who needs CNN/MSNBC when we have Graham & Mc Cain shooting us in the back.

I do so hope that they had a lovely dinner with the SCOAMF while an actual conservative was doing the hard lifting.

Posted by: Cheri at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (G+Wff)

31 >Even though Paul is making the same objections AP (and Erin Burnett) used to make -- and considered themselves quite Heroic for so objecting -- he can't be the Hero because we already know King Barack is the Hero.<

We call this the denouement

And Lindsey Graham is false protaganist. A role which he will fight John McCain for.

Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (GGCsk)

32 18 O/T again but too good not to share; Paul Krugman Declares Personal Bankruptcy http://tinyurl.com/atz3362 Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 01:34 PM (mCvL4) ----- Sounds Onion-ish.

Posted by: As long as Mindy's little Barry-Boo is happy, that's what matters at March 07, 2013 09:37 AM (wk9P4)

33 18 O/T again but too good not to share; Paul Krugman Declares Personal Bankruptcy http://tinyurl.com/atz3362 Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 01:34 PM (mCvL4) _____________ that's a good one! Schadenboner worthy Maybe he'll get a bailout from Teh JEF since he's such an important propagandist.

Posted by: Two ton Tony from NJ at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (0K4Xj)

34 most people 'edit out' CNN.  If it weren't for airports and dentist's offices...

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (Dll6b)

35 Whiter than MSNBC? That's quite an accomplishment.

Posted by: Andy at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (C/NnJ)

36 By the way, where was your CAUTION PLOT SPOILER heading?

Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (GGCsk)

37 Let me know when we stop complaining and start organizing together to fight the root of our problems: the media.

What problems are not exacerbated by the corrupt media?

Posted by: GardenGnome at March 07, 2013 01:32 PM (Io7hX)

We'll let you know, sit tight sweetheart.

Posted by: Heralder at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (+xmn4)

38 BTW Noah Rothman is right over there on the sidebar. Rand Paul spoke out passionately for the American Revolution over the French Revolution, and made it an emotional plea that touched people's hearts.

This is why the culture is important.

Jacobins and their leftist successors hardest hit.

Posted by: PJ at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (ZWaLo)

39

 

The media did this to Newt, too...back in the 90's.

 

Newt used Cspan to reach the people, direct, without the media filter.

There was talk of 'Newt for President'.

So they systematically set out to destroy him.

 

Of course, it didn't help that Newt's own ego provided additional ammunition for them to use.

 

Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (QPnFm)

40 Who needs CNN/MSNBC when we have Graham McCain shooting us in the back front.
Fixed.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 07, 2013 09:38 AM (ORGYc)

41 Paul Krugman Declares Personal Bankruptcy

http://tinyurl.com/atz3362

Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 01:34 PM (mCvL4)



Just saw on twitter that the 'Daily Currant' is a satire site.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 09:39 AM (X6akg)

42 Ok I'm a fucking idiot

Posted by: Two ton Tony from NJ at March 07, 2013 09:40 AM (0K4Xj)

43 Vanity fair is "honest" with what they do, they say it's not news it's "narrative journalism".

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at March 07, 2013 09:40 AM (AWmfW)

44 I am pretty sure Graham is doinking the old man's dust hole.

Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 09:40 AM (GGCsk)

45 Sorry if this has already been posted, but looks like Rand won:


Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.



http://tinyurl.com/b9vdg7g

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 09:40 AM (X6akg)

46 just want everyone to know that in the last thread a reference back to the Civil War was made 1860's. Not bad, but I expected better. Like the 6th or 7th century.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 09:40 AM (xIzGn)

47 Wait, there's something whiter than MSNBC? Is that possible? I mean, even I'm not that white and you can uncover my legs at midnight and use the moonlight reflecting off of them to warn ships at sea of those upcoming reefs.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 09:41 AM (VtjlW)

48 AP edits out the standing ovation Paul received at the conclusion of his filibuster. CBS led this morning with the very end, where Rand has to excuse himself to hit the can. No ovation, no clapping, CUT IT NOW!!!!!! Apparently issues of the Constitution are not understandable to low information voters and need not be addressed. However, bathroom issues are an issue that must be broadcast. First.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 07, 2013 09:41 AM (feFL6)

49 Will ordering coffee at a Starbucks be a "combat situation"?

Posted by: andycanuck at March 07, 2013 09:42 AM (ORGYc)

50 Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  For some reason, a truant and his pals commit fraud, steal a car, cause property damage and are generally irresponsible for an entire day, and for some reason the principal is the villain.  You know, the guy who's supposed to make sure the kids are in school.


I really didn't like that movie. Broderick's character was a total d-bag.  (Granted, the principal was a jerk and all, but still.)


Also, The Blues Brothers, which was an awesome film.  Though part of the movie is that A) Jake and Elwood are doing this for a good cause, and B) they (spoiler!) do go to prison in the end.

Posted by: Lance at March 07, 2013 09:42 AM (0aMfR)

51 And lou's a girl on the ONT thought that there was something Rand Paul could do (such as, I guess, peeing and pooping himself on camera so he could keep standing in uncomfortable shoes till 10 AM) that would "force" the MSM to cover him fairly. Right.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2013 09:42 AM (6zgse)

52 That CNN lower third was some producer's idea clever wordplay.

Rand Paul ... DRONES ... on and on..

Get it?! This is why YOU are not qualified to tell the masses what's what. Because YOU are not this clever.

Posted by: Warden at March 07, 2013 09:43 AM (0DlnM)

53 Just saw on twitter that the 'Daily Currant' is a satire site.
Posted by: Tami at March 07, 2013 01:39 PM

Damn, happens to the best of us!

Posted by: kbdabear at March 07, 2013 09:43 AM (mCvL4)

54 CNN should just start adding those jokey banjo riffs from Duck Dynasty when a republican speaks.

Posted by: Rick Ellison at March 07, 2013 09:44 AM (KHo8t)

55 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (xN73L)

56


Archer?

Posted by: imp at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (UaxA0)

57 IIRC there is a curtain or something Senator's can duck behind to pee in a bottle while still being "on the floor". I think thats how they made it through in the old days.

Posted by: BSR at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (CBCxo)

58 AP edits out the standing ovation Paul received at the conclusion of his filibuster. I'm surprised they didn't edit in Boos.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (+paCV)

59 Well, he got Chris Cuomo. Cuomo even makes Erin Burnett nervous. She stutters in his presence. He knew and enormous amount about the Papacy. Too bad the Cardinals have imposed a media black out, he would have shined. In another note, according to the twitterverse a lot of folks stayed up late watching "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" as they'd never seen the movie and they'd drunk tons of coffee in anticipation of staying up with rand.

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (/b8+5)

60 Question for the Horde: How many times has Bill Ayers (who in fact, tried to blow up the Pentagon) visited the White House?

Posted by: navybrat at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (CgiRY)

61 We should bombard McCain's and Graham's offices with lollipops. A sucker for two suckahs.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 09:45 AM (b8TXQ)

62 The harvest of tyranny will come for them as it will us. They will reap chains and suffering from this field sown by the despot. They will then realize they had gleefully plowed that field ahead of him and took no note or interest of what was planted. Perhaps when the shackles clank shut, or the cell door slams, they will think about all that they did do wrong all of mankind. Or will they go into the oblivion of universal bondage and poverty believing the new world is the right way for humanity, and they had done the right thing? True believers to the end?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 09:47 AM (0q2P7)

63 61 We should bombard McCain's and Graham's offices with lollipops. A sucker for two suckahs. Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 01:45 PM (b8TXQ) They won't get it, they'll think you're trying to sabotage meggy's perpetual diet.

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 09:47 AM (/b8+5)

64 >Jeff Zucker Succeeds in Transforming CNN Into MSNBC White<

I thought the game in TV was to fight for the top ratings spot? Did I miss something?

Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 09:47 AM (GGCsk)

65

Guy, from Swimming with Sharks?

Posted by: imp at March 07, 2013 09:47 AM (UaxA0)

66 I mean, even I'm not that white and you can uncover my legs at midnight and use the moonlight reflecting off of them to warn ships at sea of those upcoming reefs. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. OK I laughed out loud and scared the cat.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (+paCV)

67 64 >Jeff Zucker Succeeds in Transforming CNN Into MSNBC White< I thought the game in TV was to fight for the top ratings spot? Did I miss something? Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 01:47 PM (GGCsk) Zucker will be the Ron Johnson of media.

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (/b8+5)

68 just want everyone to know that in the last thread a reference back to the Civil War was made 1860's. Not bad, but I expected better. Like the 6th or 7th century. Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 01:40 PM (xIzGn) Isn't there will be a Civil War reference as separate subsection of the stages of a comment thread? Also the Daily Currant is the satire site that has roped in more than one member of the MFM.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (VtjlW)

69 they're not completely "white." They have Don Lemon. Black + ghey.

I don't know who that is, but I know that gay = honorary white.

And white + gay = ultrawhite. That's why we all have to defer to them and watch the shitty TV shows they like.

--

I also seem to recall John Rambo being, in fact, a hallucinatory, violent killer who blew up half a town because somewhere in his mind he was reliving Vietnam.

In the first movie he wasn't heroic. He was fixed-idea crazy. But his antagonists' motivations were more irrational--and their ideas more madly fixed--than his.

That's sort of the point of the thing. It's a (belated) seventies movie. There are no good guys in it, just people stuck. You're not supposed to think he's cool.

Posted by: oblig. at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (cePv8)

70

Dexter?

Posted by: imp at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (UaxA0)

71 Are we still in the complaining about complaining phase? Because serious you guys, I'd like to hear one of the complainers about our venting tell us what to do other than to stop giving the MFM our dollars. They get nothing from me and I steal from them when I can. Short of targeted assassination, I'm at the end of my flowchart.

Posted by: toby928© presents at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (QupBk)

72 AP edits out the standing ovation Paul received at the conclusion of his filibuster.

I'm surprised they didn't edit in Boos.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 01:45 PM (+paCV)





NBC is working on the tape right now to edit in a lot of racial slurs

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (1Jaio)

73 61
We should bombard McCain's and Graham's offices with lollipops.

A sucker for two suckahs.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 01:45 PM (b8TXQ)


Lots of stuff you could send those a-holes...silver pieces, tiny fiddles(that could go 2 ways)...sky is the limit

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (FIDMq)

74

45 Sorry if this has already been posted, but looks like Rand won:


 

 

Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that
President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S.
soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.



 

http://tinyurl.com/b9vdg7g

 

-----------

 

Thanks, Tami.

 

But I think we need to get a definition of..."non-combat situation".

 

Some guy wearing camo?

That's a combat situation!

 

Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (QPnFm)

75 Serious You Guys, Obama's like our dad. If he needs to take out a bad guy with a drone strike, then we need to trust his judgement.

Posted by: Warden at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (0DlnM)

76 "I think thats how they made it through in the old days."

Huey Long wore black pants for a reason during his famous filibuster...

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at March 07, 2013 09:48 AM (yAor6)

77 Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?

There are lots of these.

Sadly, the one coming to mind most readily (because I *still* want those hours of my life back) is the Leonardo DiCaprio character in Titanic.  He's a con-man who seduces another man's fiance.  And we're supposed to be sad that he dies.

But, as ace mentions- you can really look at a bunch of Action Heroes.  James Bond, with slightly different tone, is one evil sonofabitch.  You could say Martin Riggs from the Lethal Weapon movies (at least the first one), too.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (xN73L)

78 Jayne Cobb is a villain I root for.

Posted by: toby928© presents at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (QupBk)

79 I thought MSNBC was the White MSNBC.

Posted by: gwelf at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (TJ8HB)

80 “The country needs more senators who care about liberty, but if Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. He needs to know what he’s talking about,” said Mr. McCain, Republicans’ presidential nominee in 2008 — who topped Mr. Paul’s father, former Rep. Ron Paul, in that year’s primary.








Posted by: "And turn down that damn rock and roll!" at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (MT+0i)

81 I mean, even I'm not that white and you can uncover my legs at midnight and use the moonlight reflecting off of them to warn ships at sea of those upcoming reefs.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 01:41 PM (VtjlW)

I sense some retirement opportunities for you.

Posted by: Heralder at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (+xmn4)

82 Piers Morgan has done so much deceptive and what would be illegal shit in the US that I can't believe anyone would employ him.

Posted by: Bubba from County at March 07, 2013 09:49 AM (5PMD3)

83

Walter White

Posted by: imp at March 07, 2013 09:50 AM (UaxA0)

84 I caught a little MSNBC just to see what they were reporting on last night. I don't remember know except how rediculous and the filibuster wasn't mentioned. They rag about FOX but those progressive assholes really live in a fishbowl. Swimming in their own feces.

Posted by: Bosk at March 07, 2013 09:50 AM (n2K+4)

85 Here's the rest of it wheatie:


White House Press Secretary Jay Carney quoted from the letter that Holder sent to Paul today. “Does the president have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on an American soil,” Holder wrote, per Carney. “The answer is no.”

Carney added that, “if the United States were under attack, there were an imminent threat,” the president has the authority to protect the country from that assault.


Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 09:50 AM (X6akg)

86 I really didn't like that movie. Broderick's character was a total d-bag. (Granted, the principal was a jerk and all, but still.) Posted by: Lance at March 07, 2013 01:42 PM (0aMfR) The scene where they explained that Ferris was skipping school to dodge the Howard Zinn Anthology Retrospective and Poetry Jam got left on the cutting room floor.

Posted by: alex® at March 07, 2013 09:50 AM (m9cpE)

87 "Expressions of approval or disapproval are not permitted in the Senate." I like the Brits and Taiwan where they get in each others faces.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 07, 2013 09:50 AM (feFL6)

88 The Pat and Stew show, your home for "russian dashcam crash videos" is considering a Wall of Shame, similar to the CEO Wall of Shame that Jim Cramer has on his program, only for politicians. Would be interesting if they decide to do it and who they put up on the wall right away. They are sandwiched between beck and severin and I tune in for the dash cam crash videos.

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 09:51 AM (/b8+5)

89 Of course President Barack Obama, who I and all correctly-thinking persons support completely, is the hero of this story just as he is our hero in real life. Rand Paul is just a creepy racist from a hillbilly state of cousin-fuckers. His father is a Nazi sympathizer with a gold coin fetish. The only thing I could agree with the Pauls on is the threat to American society brought about by the Wall Street machine and the international bankers. You know, people with last names that end in berg or stein and who bribe right-wing politicians to start illegal wars against brown people in order to make money, and to support the illegal outlaw state of Israel. Justice for Palestine! Social, economic, and environmental justice know no boundaries!

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at March 07, 2013 09:51 AM (jCQ+I)

90 How about Darth Vader?

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 07, 2013 09:51 AM (FIDMq)

91 I'm also fond of Boyd Crowder.

Posted by: toby928© presents at March 07, 2013 09:52 AM (QupBk)

92 Worst part for them? These media type think somehow they are succeeding. They get very wrapped up in their own little worlds and think somehow what they do is meaningful.

Meanwhile, we are mocking them and laughing at their abject ignorance and stupidity.

Did anyone ever tell them the media scores lower than anyone in the polls? One thing they do have is being resoundingly loathed, lower than lawyers. So they got that going for them.

Posted by: Marcus at March 07, 2013 09:52 AM (GGCsk)

93 meant to add...who didn't like Vader already though

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 07, 2013 09:52 AM (FIDMq)

94 Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.

And he's wrong.  The President does not have the authority summarily to kill a US Citizen at any time.  US Citizens are provided Due Process.

Now, if he dies because the only people who can stand up to him are SEAL Team 6, and they kill him trying to take him into custody, that's fine.  If he just decides "Nope, that guy has a machine-gun and is firing back: that's a combat situation!" bzzzt.  Wrong answer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 09:52 AM (xN73L)

95 I think the wording 'non engaged in combat on American soil' are the words Rand Paul used in his question to Holder.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 09:52 AM (X6akg)

96 Guy, from Swimming with Sharks? Posted by: imp at March 07, 2013 01:47 PM (UaxA0) I'd say Buddy even more than Guy. I do adore that movie so. Frank Martin from the Transporter movies. To move to tv, Guerrero from Human Target. Hell, Dumbledore is a manipulative fuck who is not above using 11 year old children as pawns. For the flip side of that, there's Snape.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 09:53 AM (VtjlW)

97 How many times has Bill Ayers (who in fact, tried to blow up the Pentagon) visited the White House? On the newsbreak after Rand's interview on Rush, they reported that a steel mill in Illinois had blown up. My first reaction was "does Ayers have an alibi?".

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (B/VB5)

98 CNN favoring Obama over any republican?


I think I just shit myself.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (w+Dvf)

99 Now, if he dies because the only people who can stand up to him are SEAL Team 6, and they kill him trying to take him into custody, that's fine. If he just decides "Nope, that guy has a machine-gun and is firing back: that's a combat situation!" bzzzt. Wrong answer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 01:52 PM (xN73L)


Instead of calling in a drone strike...call us instead!

Posted by: LAPD Housing Remodeling Unit at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (FIDMq)

100 86 I really didn't like that movie. Broderick's character was a total d-bag. (Granted, the principal was a jerk and all, but still.) Posted by: Lance at March 07, 2013 01:42 PM (0aMfR) And these days, the kids get busted for not eating their pop tarts in the right way... So. It really wasn't too far off from predicting the hyperactive over-watch of school officials, as ridiculous as it was at the time.

Posted by: alex® at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (m9cpE)

101 Yeah looks like Rand won that round, not even in the political sense.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (xAtAj)

102 He's a con-man who seduces another man's fiance.

Lol.  "Another man's fiance" hated the slimy bastard she was being forced to marry.

It's a stupid movie, but there's nothing shameful in treating a woman like she's not livestock.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (/kI1Q)

103 Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?

***

Bill Murray's character in Ghostbusters.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (XUKZU)

104 Darth VADER was white but his voice was BLACK

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 09:54 AM (KXm42)

105

Honestly, I literally want to know whether the applause was because they approved of the filibuster, or whether they approved of the fact that he had finally stopped talking.

 

I would LOVE to see Sen. Paul do this sort of thing for a REAL issue - and there are surely DOZENS, but from what I've seen of the facts,  he has chosen a non-issue to champion. Is the tactic, then, to start to behave like the Left now? Drum up excitement with the low-information voters on non-issues? This is just sad.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 09:55 AM (Mxt9o)

106 examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?

Silence of the Lambs? Dr. Lechter?

Posted by: real joe at March 07, 2013 09:55 AM (lTlc7)

107
[I'd say Buddy even more than Guy.]

I'm not your buddy, guy!

Don't call me guy, pal!

We're not pals, buddy!

I'm not your buddy, guy!

Posted by: Warden at March 07, 2013 09:55 AM (0DlnM)

108

#1 A Face in the Crowd

     All the King's Men

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at March 07, 2013 09:56 AM (wbmaj)

109 Is the tactic, then, to start to behave like the Left now? Drum up excitement with the low-information voters on non-issues? This is just sad. Why? A well run party can walk and chew gum at the same time. The secret to the LiV is saturation.

Posted by: toby928© presents at March 07, 2013 09:56 AM (QupBk)

110 Once again Ms Cloggenstein cuts through the matted fur to the crux of the cat.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 09:56 AM (+paCV)

111

Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that
President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S.
soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.

I'd send what ever hard copy he has to a lab to ensure that there is no invisible ink involved.

Do. Not. Trust.

Posted by: Cheri at March 07, 2013 09:56 AM (G+Wff)

112 I declare this thread unintelligible.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (fMgJk)

113 >>examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?


Dorothy in The Wizard Of Oz.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (w+Dvf)

114 It's a stupid movie, but there's nothing shameful in treating a woman like she's not livestock.

And that's exactly the point we're making.

If you treat him (the slimeball fiance) differently tonally, he's suddenly the good-guy.  You could even use (most of) the same lines, just delivered with a slightly different tone of voice, and then he's not "treating a woman like she's livestock," he's instead trying to protect his naive and sheltered fiance from a con-man who just wants to get into her petticoat.

It's all about the tone.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (xN73L)

115 nothing specific in the AoS Stages©, just a "historical reference/anectdote"

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (vanqS)

116 Honestly, I literally want to know whether the applause was because they approved of the filibuster, or whether they approved of the fact that he had finally stopped talking. If you listen to the actual tape, Dick Turban tries repeatedly to make them stop, at one point saying it's against Senate rules to express support for something, at which point they cheered LOUDER. I don't think they were glad it was over.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (B/VB5)

117 Sipping Jamaican Blue cowboy coffee I am.

Posted by: toby928© presents at March 07, 2013 09:57 AM (QupBk)

118 "...akes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?" The crew of Serenity.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (+paCV)

119 [can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?].

That annoying little piece of shit Rudy who thought he could fucking play football with the real players. Fuck that guy and his fucking enthusiasm.

What? We were all thinking it.

Posted by: Warden at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (0DlnM)

120 I declare this thread unintelligible.

You're not supposed to read it.

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (KXm42)

121 Honestly, I literally want to know whether the applause was because they approved of the filibuster, or whether they approved of the fact that he had finally stopped talking.

I would LOVE to see Sen. Paul do this sort of thing for a REAL issue - and there are surely DOZENS, but from what I've seen of the facts, he has chosen a non-issue to champion. Is the tactic, then, to start to behave like the Left now? Drum up excitement with the low-information voters on non-issues? This is just sad.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 01:55 PM (Mxt9o)

 

"You don't know very much, do you ? " 

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (nTgAI)

122 That movie is over 25 years old. Today, they would be dodging bullets.

Posted by: Bubba from County at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (5PMD3)

123 Bill Murray's character in Ghostbusters. Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2013 01:54 PM (XUKZU) Bill Murray's character in Groundhog Day. Bill Murray's character in Wild Things. Bill Murray's character in Lost In Translation. Or, you know, Bill Murray. Crappity. Now I want to watch Zombieland. Oh, hey, speaking of Wild Things, as we always should, one of the many many wonderful things about that movie is how it plays with who is the good guy and who is the bad guy and who is really the mastermind of it all.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 09:58 AM (VtjlW)

124 112 Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.I'd send what ever hard copy he has to a lab to ensure that there is no invisible ink involved.
Do. Not. Trust.

Posted by: Cheri at March 07, 2013 01:56 PM (G+Wff)


I would ask for a concrete definition of a 'combat situation' - as that, it seems, can bring down death from above.

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 07, 2013 09:59 AM (FIDMq)

125

The  Oberlin  College  campus  welcomes  drone  strikes!  We  will  not  tolerate  descent  and  encourage  President  Obama  to  decimate  those  bigots  who  disagree  with  us.  Tolerance  forever.

Posted by: Oberlin College at March 07, 2013 09:59 AM (wIgpo)

126 Rand is a vocal supporter of the Tea Party. It is therefore unpossible for him to be the hero.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 07, 2013 09:59 AM (ccXZP)

127 Rand Paul Wins Applause From GOP and Liberals

Rand Paul's nearly 13 hour live filibuster of John Brennan's nomination to head the CIA got support for the Kentucky Republican from some unlikely places.

"He's using the filibuster the way it's meant to be used," said Jon Stewart, whose satire carries some political weight from his perch at "The Daily Show."

"It was a courageous and historic effort by Sen. Paul and his colleagues to demand information from this administration on an issue where they have refused to give it," said Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel to the ACLU. He said he hopes the ultimate broad Republican support for the filibuster signals a change in Congress.

"This is part of Congress reasserting its constitutional role of checks and balances between the president and the Congress. For too long on national security issues we've had congress out to lunch," said Anders.




Barry must be livid because this has completely overshadowed his little political theater dinner. It shows him as the inconsequential little prick that he should be

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 07, 2013 10:00 AM (1Jaio)

128 I would LOVE to see Sen. Paul do this sort of thing for a REAL issue - and there are surely DOZENS, but from what I've seen of the facts, he has chosen a non-issue to champion. Is the tactic, then, to start to behave like the Left now? Drum up excitement with the low-information voters on non-issues? This is just sad.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 01:55 PM (Mxt9o)

American citizens being deprived of due process is not a "real" issue?

Posted by: Heralder at March 07, 2013 10:00 AM (+xmn4)

129 112 Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, ObamaÂ’s spokesman announced today.I'd send what ever hard copy he has to a lab to ensure that there is no invisible ink involved. Do. Not. Trust. Posted by: Cheri at March 07, 2013 01:56 PM (G+Wff) Problem is, if this is not clarified to the nth degree, some future administration, whose motives may not be pure, even a republican administration, might use this in a bad way. This was I think Paul's point. Not that the current president would do anything or the current AG but who can vouch for what future administrations might do if this is not carefully crafted for every eventuality?

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 10:00 AM (/b8+5)

130 Rand Paul on Meghan Kelly right now!

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 07, 2013 10:00 AM (GoIUi)

131 [You're not supposed to read it.
Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 01:58 PM (KXm42)]

Yeah, you're doing it wrong. Just take the computer screen and rub it all over your groin. It'll make your balls smell like wealth and women will want to perform oral sex on you.

Seriously, I do it all the time.

Posted by: Warden at March 07, 2013 10:00 AM (0DlnM)

132
I know you all passed this on your SAT tests:

Hagel is to Bagel as Zucker is to _________________.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2013 10:01 AM (p/cQy)

133 Rand Paul on Meghan Kelly right now! Posted by: Miss Marple at March 07, 2013 02:00 PM (GoIUi) It's sad that you don't mean that in the way my mind took it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 10:01 AM (VtjlW)

134 I saw a YouTube of a drone armed with a shotgun that fired like a hundred rounds. I told Jill, "that thing could end jaywalking once and for all."

Posted by: Sheriff Joe at March 07, 2013 10:01 AM (JQuNB)

135 Rand Paul on Meghan Kelly right now!

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 07, 2013 02:00 PM (GoIUi)

 

Is he going up and down ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (nTgAI)

136 American citizens being deprived of due process is not a "real" issue?

Posted by: Heralder at March 07, 2013 02:00 PM (+xmn4)


No topic is interesting unless it's interesting to me.


Duh.


I sort of get what Opt is saying, but the trick is to pick a topic that 3/4 of Americans can agree on, and use it as a wedge issue. It's politically brilliant, and makes JEF look like a SCOAMF.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (xAtAj)

137 >>The President does not have the authority summarily to kill a US Citizen at any time. US Citizens are provided Due Process.

If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been unconstitutional?

Posted by: angler at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (SwjAj)

138 "Is the tactic, then, to start to behave like the Left now? Drum up excitement with the low-information voters on non-issues? This is just sad."

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 01:55 PM (Mxt9o)



Take the high road, eh, Optimizer? Time to start wringing your hands. Any chance at feeling pleased that once, this month, it almost felt like we were going over to the attack? That the initiative had passed from them to us?

Why is it even necessary to have to get a sense of the Senate resolution over the question in the first place?

Posted by: Mike James at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (cgDgK)

139

85 Here's the rest of it wheatie:



 

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney quoted from the letter that
Holder sent to Paul today. “Does the president have the authority to use
a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on an
American soil,” Holder wrote, per Carney. “The answer is no.”

 

Carney added that, “if the United States were under attack, there
were an imminent threat,” the president has the authority to protect the
country from that assault.

 

---------

 

That all 'sounds' good.

 

But when you're dealing with weasels, who use weasel-words...it's hard to know what they mean.

 

"engaged in combat"..."under attack"..."eminent threat"

We think we know what these words mean.

 

But we have a Preezy who ran a website called "Attack Watch"...which called on citizens to report any verbal or written 'attacks' on him.

 

Many powerful Dems have called the Tea Party "terrorists".

They've also accused conservatives of waging a "War on Women".

 

So, when these same weasels have the power to determine what an "eminent threat" is...it is still a dangerous situation.


 

Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (QPnFm)

140 by the way, sometime soon we all need to have a talk about the AoS Barrel© and how it's being mis-used.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2013 02:01 PM (1WM2H)


FINE...you can have your stupid barrel back...and NOT sorry for the additional holes!

Posted by: Glory Hole Gramnesty at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (FIDMq)

141 Dexter the serial killer.

Posted by: kathysaysso at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (6H6o8)

142 124 That movie is over 25 years old. Today, they would be dodging bullets pop tarts. fifm

Posted by: Bubba from County at March 07, 2013 10:02 AM (5PMD3)

143 Still no jwest?

Posted by: Bubba from County at March 07, 2013 10:03 AM (5PMD3)

144
I am still pissed and McCain and Graham, especially saying the chances of drone strike on citizens is zero, hey dumbass? what about a bullet?  is it ok if the prez murders that way asshole.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2013 10:03 AM (p/cQy)

145 A movie where the villain can be portrayed as a hero by the tone?? Hmmm If they re released the movie Armegeddon and recut it to happen in the year 2013 I would root for the fucking asteroid.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 07, 2013 10:04 AM (g7xKU)

146 To move to tv, Guerrero from Human Target. Ok, I'm officially surrendering to the ATC fan club after her making *that* reference.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 10:04 AM (B/VB5)

147 If you listen to the actual tape, Dick Turban tries repeatedly to make them stop, at one point saying it's against Senate rules to express support for something, at which point they cheered LOUDER. hehe, yeah, I was laughing

Posted by: beach at March 07, 2013 10:04 AM (XYSwB)

148


Rand Paul on Meghan Kelly right now!
Posted by: Miss Marple



PHRASING!

Posted by: Megyn Kelly's husband at March 07, 2013 10:04 AM (UaxA0)

149 >>examples where a movie/television show actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?


The cast of The Big Bang Theory.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2013 10:04 AM (w+Dvf)

150 If Hitchcock were making movies today:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b8hcx8f

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2013 10:05 AM (XUKZU)

151 >>>who by any measure is a villain

Ever seen the libtard matubatory flick "On Deadly Ground"

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:05 AM (0q2P7)

152 Attorney General Eric Holder wrote Sen. Rand Paul,R-Ky., to confirm that President Obama does not have the authority to kill an American on U.S. soil in a non-combat situation, Obama’s spokesman announced today. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney quoted from the letter that Holder sent to Paul today. “Does the president have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on an American soil,” Holder wrote, per Carney. “The answer is no.” Carney added that, “if the United States were under attack, there were an imminent threat,” the president has the authority to protect the country from that assault. Actually I think that is a good beginning. I would add that on US Soil, an ordinary imminent threat, is handled by the appropriate Civilian Authority, not the Military. And it is ONLY with "Extra-Ordinary" situations ( such as an Airliner about to fly into a building) that I would think the President is authorized to use all possible force, including deadly Military Force, to protect life and property.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (9Bj8R)

153 >>>who by any measure is a villain

How about V for Vendetta?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (0q2P7)

154 Hadn't read all of the responses so someone may have already pointed out that The Professional was an example of bad guy being hero. 

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (m2CN7)

155 58AP edits out the standing ovation Paul received at the conclusion of his filibuster.

I'm surprised they didn't edit in Boos.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 07, 2013 01:45 PM (+paCV)

----

hmmm. We have several opening for senior editors...

Posted by: AP at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (SO2Q8)

156 I wonder if the sheriff in "walking dead" is going to use his quick-draw skills on the governor, for the eighty-nineth time.

Posted by: auldoux at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (Kxz3Y)

157 When white people get hit with a drone strike, they all go like THIS... you know with their arms out and they're all, "Aiiieee!"

But when black people get hit with a drone strike, the're all like THIS ... with their hips n' shit? And they're all, "Wasssup with THAT?!!"


Posted by: Time Traveling Black Comedian From 1987 at March 07, 2013 10:06 AM (0DlnM)

158 Villain as hero.

I must say that I find myself rooting for Boyd Crowder and even Ava on Justified.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (kXoT0)

159 By the way, Jeff Zucker is the guy who drove NBC into the current crater it's in. I'm amazed someone was dumb enough to hire him after that debacle.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (B/VB5)

160 Romantic comedies seem to lean on the "because I said so" thing. Sleepless In Seattle is about a woman who leaves her nice if dopey fiance for a stranger from the radio. Because, OMG, she saw signs!

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (qfMZe)

161 That all 'sounds' good.

But when you're dealing with weasels, who use weasel-words...it's hard to know what they mean.


==========


Not that I disagree with you, but I *think* the wording is Rand Paul's wording.....not Holder's or Obama's, i.e. The Weasels.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (X6akg)

162 >>>who by any measure is a villain

Dexter Morgan?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (0q2P7)

163 If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been unconstitutional?

First: I should have said "On American Soil" (not that such wording changes your question- I just realized I missed it).

Second: That's a very good question.  The question there, though, is not the targeting of US Citizens, but what level of "collateral damage" we're willing to accept.  As has been said before: the Constitution is not a suicide pact.

In general, I would say that on September 11, 2001, that would have been unconstitutional.  Until that day, we never imagined that someone would really hijack a plane full of innocent people and pilot them into buildings, including the Pentagon and (possibly) the Capitol or White House.

So firing on them then would have been killing a bunch of innocents to keep from having to negotiate with hijackers.

OTOH, if the same thing happened now, then I don't think it would be unconstitutional.  Now the tactic has been used, and we have to assume they would like to use it again.  So if someone hijacks a plane, then shooting that plane down could be justified.  However much it would suck.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (xN73L)

164 The cast of The Big Bang Theory. Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2013 02:04 PM (w+Dvf) Tea. All over.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 10:07 AM (VtjlW)

165 I agree with Allen I thought the guy from titanic billy Zane was the good guy. She used him to get rich with her shrew mother, cheats on him, and then has the gall to act surprised when he gets mad? Wtf she totally screwed him over in every sense other than the good way.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 07, 2013 10:08 AM (g7xKU)

166 An oldie but a goodie movie villain made hero by the tone, Michael Caine's character in The Eagle Has Landed.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2013 10:08 AM (XUKZU)

167 >>>who by any measure is a villain

Alex from Clockwork Orange?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:08 AM (0q2P7)

168 Ha!  Megan just read Holder's letter to Rand...who had not heard about it yet.

Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 07, 2013 10:09 AM (X6akg)

169

Can anyone come up with an earlier example then 'Bonnie and Clyde'.

Murderous bank robbers as romantic heros

Posted by: AP at March 07, 2013 10:09 AM (SO2Q8)

170 If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been unconstitutional? Not in my universe. It was, after all, an act of war (albeit declared on us by an organization and not a nation-state), not "workplace violence" or whatever this Administration might have attempted to define it as. Once we lost control of the planes, it is in retrospect quite clear that those planes wouldn't be landing. Those poor passengers were victims of their Government's inability (pre-911) to provide an infrastructure that secured the cabin doors on commercial aircraft (or anticipate such a situation would take place). Whoever would have had to make that call and pull that trigger would have had to live with themselves for the rest of their lives knowing what they'd done - but it most certainly would have been within the powers granted to the President (himself) to make that call to down the planes. I thank goodness that nobody within our military actually had to make that call that day - which is the same way I feel about those volunteers deep underground who would have had to turn the keys if we had ever decided decided to "exchange" city-slagging MIRVs with the former USSR.

Posted by: akula51 at March 07, 2013 10:09 AM (Vgn84)

171

As to movies with a perverse sense of heroism, there is no shortage. A kind of odd sort of example that comes to mind is the movie "Madagascar". I remember when I first saw it I was actually kind of confused at the end. I grew up on stories (even movies) where people sought freedom, and the end of the story - where justice is done, or they all live happily ever after - they achieve that freedom. In Madagascar, the main characters gain their freedom - despite themselves - and in the end literally seek to go back to being imprisoned!

 

The real heroes of the movie (and at least the public had the good sense to view them positively) were the penguins, who were the can-do, industrious types who had pulled off the escape in the first place. They were portrayed as comic relief.

 

So, the movie is hard-core Nanny-State propaganda, for programming kids. It really irks me - I can't watch it.

 

Oh, and somewhere in the mix the lion is demonized for becoming desirous of consuming one of his friends (who is some sort of animal that lions eat). In other words, he's evil for being a lion.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 10:10 AM (Mxt9o)

172 Can anyone come up with an earlier example then 'Bonnie and Clyde'.
Murderous bank robbers as romantic heros

***

There were bout a million Jesse James movies.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2013 10:10 AM (XUKZU)

173 Ace, your thoughts go along with something I've been thinking for a while, namely that a protagonist's greatness is also tied to the the strength or level of evil in their antagonist. If that's the case, then think of how ticked off Obama must be as not even having a decent villain! The White House/dems/media does their best to portray republicans as evil incarnate, but the repub old guard is really just a bunch of shuffling wussies. Who chooses Boehner as your archrival? No one. So maybe Rand and the new guard is coming along just at the right time; an opponent finally worthy of sparring with. Time will tell.

Posted by: LizLem at March 07, 2013 10:10 AM (8wqqE)

174 On V as H, in casablanca, Rick ran guns for the international, committed acts of an enemy combatant and espionage, and put Ilsa on a plane and just stood there watching it take off without a tear in his eye.

Posted by: auldoux at March 07, 2013 10:10 AM (Kxz3Y)

175 Since none of you are making a lick of sense Imma gonna blow your mind:

@codepink

We are Americans who want to see more transparency. @SenRandPaul is taking a stand, will Democrats??

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at March 07, 2013 10:10 AM (fMgJk)

176 >>>who by any measure is a villain

Natural Bork Killers?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:11 AM (0q2P7)

177 I guess that, unlike Ms. Lindsey, the WH thought Rand Paul's question deserved an answer. Stupid Ms. Lindsey.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2013 10:11 AM (6zgse)

178 175 Can anyone come up with an earlier example then 'Bonnie and Clyde'. There's that Robin guy...from the Hood.

Posted by: akula51 at March 07, 2013 10:11 AM (Vgn84)

179 Every ganster in every ganster movie ever.  And cable movie channel series.

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 10:11 AM (KXm42)

180 >>>who by any measure is a villain

Doctor Phibes?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:11 AM (0q2P7)

181 Now if a BLACK man was to filibuster, he'd be all, "Awww yeah, where my homies?" You know, hands up in the air... swayin' ... gettin that groove?

And they'd have that funky music playing and some booty shakin goin' on in the background. But they'd have to stop once the first of the month came. Awww, yeah. Haha! You know why. Look, all the white people out there got all stiff and uncomfortable.

It's true! It's true! How you think them booty dancers gettin paid?

Posted by: Time Traveling Black Comedian From 1987 at March 07, 2013 10:12 AM (0DlnM)

182 Say it loud, I'm white and I'm proud! 

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at March 07, 2013 10:12 AM (wbmaj)

183 @codepink We are Americans who want to see more transparency. @SenRandPaul is taking a stand, will Democrats?? Holy shit, they finally looked up 'hypocrisy' in Webster's.

Posted by: akula51 at March 07, 2013 10:12 AM (Vgn84)

184 Robin Hood always pisses me off.  fag

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 10:12 AM (KXm42)

185 2 >>>Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero? well James Bond isn't a terribly nice person. Posted by: ace at March 07, 2013 01:30 PM (LCRYB) Neither was Michael Corleone. He did kill a cop, after all. But who else in that film is worth rooting for?

Posted by: Joejm65 at March 07, 2013 10:13 AM (f7n8D)

186 After all, what fool would endeavor to keep the God King (of the lame brains)from killing whoever he wants to kill?

Posted by: maddogg at March 07, 2013 10:13 AM (OlN4e)

187 It was, after all, an act of war (albeit declared on us by an organization and not a nation-state), not "workplace violence" or whatever this Administration might have attempted to define it as.

True.  But we didn't know that at the time.  Not when it could have done any good.

If, theoretically, we could have gotten fighters on scene in NYC between the first hit and the second, shooting down the second WTC jet would have been okay.  But we were all still in shock, then.  It wasn't until that second airliner hit that everyone realized what had happened wasn't some monumental screw-up, but a deliberate attack.

You can't judge yesterday's actions with today's knowledge.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 10:13 AM (xN73L)

188 Ok, I'm officially surrendering to the ATC fan club after her making *that* reference. Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 02:04 PM (B/VB5) Opinions about the second season, I haz them. One of these days I'm going to write a Human Target/Harry Potter xover thing where Guerrero and Neville go around being the BAMFiest BAMFs that ever did BAMF.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at March 07, 2013 10:13 AM (VtjlW)

189 I thank goodness that nobody within our military actually had to make that call that day - which is the same way I feel about those volunteers deep underground who would have had to turn the keys if we had ever decided decided to "exchange" city-slagging MIRVs with the former USSR. Posted by: akula51 at March 07, 2013 02:09 PM (Vgn84) Actually that call was made. By the Vice President and on down the Chain of Command to the Pilot. Th Pilot never had to execute that order, but it was given and acknowledged. And properly so in my opinion

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 07, 2013 10:13 AM (9Bj8R)

190 lol @ time traveling black comedian

Posted by: fb at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (JVEmw)

191 If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been unconstitutional?

Posted by: angler at March 07, 2013 02:02 PM (SwjAj)

No, that would have been justifiable.  The hijacked plane had been turned into a weapon by foreign nationals.  Once the plane became a weapon, then due process was moot.  The example Paul was using was some US citizen is sitting at a sidewalk cafe drinking a cup of coffee.  That someone might be a known terrorist with plans to do great evil, but, right at that moment, it would be wrong for the POTUS to kill him w/o due process.  Due process implies arrest with the chance to surrender and a trial.



Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (kXoT0)

192 Can anyone come up with an earlier example then 'Bonnie and Clyde'.
Murderous bank robbers as romantic heros

***

There were bout a million Jesse James movies.

Robin Hood.

To a lesser extent: Gilgamesh.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (xN73L)

193

If Reince Preibus and the RNC have their shit together, they
should now be putting together a training program for every elected
Republican in the country on how to filibusters

 

 

 

 

 

First you gotta have balls.  Most Repubs are missing theirs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (DoZD+)

194 Does Chicago need drones? 

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (wbmaj)

195

There were bout a million Jesse James movies.

---

i expect he would be the 'star' of the movie, but was he treated as the hero?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 07, 2013 10:14 AM (SO2Q8)

196 Heh, booty dancers.

Posted by: Clownf*cker at March 07, 2013 10:15 AM (V40IZ)

197
I think its funny that oblather made mccain and graham look like fools again right after they went after Rand Paul.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2013 10:15 AM (p/cQy)

198 Jack and his BandE beanstalk.

Little bastard.

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 10:15 AM (KXm42)

199 Anti-hero?  Severus Snape.  Very nasty man, yet I cheered for him every step of the way.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 07, 2013 10:15 AM (DoZD+)

200

One who was a villian througout the movie and then did a 'heroic' gesture at the end was Alec Baldwin's character in The Cooler.

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:17 AM (m2CN7)

201

 

Let's get back to talking about what good head we both gave Obama under the restaurant table last night!

Posted by: Senators McCain and Lindsey at March 07, 2013 10:17 AM (ggRof)

202

Robin Hood.


----

 

Except you've got King John and the Sherriff as the true villians.

 

 

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 07, 2013 10:17 AM (SO2Q8)

203 >>>If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before
it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been
unconstitutional?

What was your target? The people on board or the plane? The plane obviously, the death of the people is incidental. The military calls it collateral damage. And yes it is permissible. It would be the same as shooting down a Pear Harbor raider over populated Oahu, knowing that people would die when the plane crashed.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:18 AM (0q2P7)

204

McCain's  relevance  was  gone  the  day  he  lost  the  election.  Sure  he  won  reelction  after  that.  He  could  have  hung  on.   He  could  have  served  a purpose  with  his military  background.  But  the  day  he  didn't  really  standup  against  Hagel  confirmed  for  me  what  has  been  obvious  for  years.  

Posted by: SH at March 07, 2013 10:18 AM (gmeXX)

205 Even Oskar Schindler was a bit of a cad and opportunist. Other than that, he was a pretty good guy. Dale Gribble? Cuckolded, paranoid, opportunistic, deceptive...yet he's everyone's favorite character.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 07, 2013 10:18 AM (Ec6wH)

206 Opinions about the second season, I haz them. I'd love to hear them, if you can keep 'em in Ace-friendly language.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (B/VB5)

207 But  could  this  have  worked  out  better  for  Paul?   Having  McCain  attack  you  really  improves  your  conservative  cred,  doesn't  it.

Posted by: SH at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (gmeXX)

208 CBS led this morning with the very end, where Rand has to excuse himself to hit the can. No ovation, no clapping, CUT IT NOW!!!!!!

Apparently issues of the Constitution are not understandable to low information voters and need not be addressed. However, bathroom issues are an issue that must be broadcast. First.

Posted by: Regular Moron at March 07, 2013 01:41 PM (feFL6)

 

Baby talk.  Just as Ace said in the last thread.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (zF6Iw)

209 "Jobless Recovery" was headline news during the Bush administration. Whatever happened to that?

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (JQuNB)

210 "Ace, you're a movie fan, can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero? "

Posted by: AmishDude at March 07, 2013 01:29 PM (T0NGe)

 

The 'Matrix' movies, where Keanu Reeves' Neo character and his pals kill more unwitting security guards, police officers, and innocent bystanders than the plagues of Egypt. Even though these people are stored in tanks somewhere in the real world and used as energy sources by the machines, we're told if you die in the Matrix, you die.

 

Eggs, omelets, whatever.

Posted by: troyriser at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (vtiE6)

211

Heh. Fuck you Bebee. Suck on that.

http://tinyurl.com/b97h3m2

Posted by: maddogg at March 07, 2013 10:19 AM (OlN4e)

212 Out of all that, I'm just still trying to figure out how to get Erin Burnett to sit on my face.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 07, 2013 10:20 AM (xmcEQ)

213 Headline from 2019:  Drone Strike Team Program reduces Federal Area of Detroit Murder Rate by 75%

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at March 07, 2013 10:20 AM (wbmaj)

214 Except you've got King John and the Sherriff as the true villians.

The Sheriff was a duly appointed official going about his duties.  They weren't very nice duties, but they were his duties.  And, again, we're talking "tone," here.  If you change the "tone" of how you deal with the characters in the story of Robin Hood, you have an outlaw who is stealing from the treasury to prevent the English Crown from paying the ransom for the rightful king.  That "John Wants to be King" stuff was kind of assumed.  There's also the part where at least once before the events of Robin Hood John had levied his vassals to pay the ransom for Richard. 

You've heard the term "A King's Ransom?"  Yeah.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 07, 2013 10:20 AM (xN73L)

215

can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this,
takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a
hero?

Every heist movie ever?

 

That's why as soon as I read that a movie's main storyline is a heist they've lost me.  I just have no interest in travails of career criminals.

Posted by: Decaf at March 07, 2013 10:21 AM (Dqox6)

216 Meanwhile - CNN unexpectedly remains irrelevant.

Posted by: akula51 at March 07, 2013 10:21 AM (Vgn84)

217 Not a  movie,  but  I always  thought  the  Soprano's  tried  to  walk  that  line.  

Posted by: SH at March 07, 2013 10:22 AM (gmeXX)

218 Erin Burnett...thought she was a lesbian...which is a bit of a presumption.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 07, 2013 10:22 AM (Ec6wH)

219 That's why as soon as I read that a movie's main storyline is a heist they've lost me. I just have no interest in travails of career criminals.

Posted by: Decaf at March 07, 2013 02:21 PM (Dqox6)

 

How can you not like Heat?

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:22 AM (m2CN7)

220 My favourite Jesse James was when he was in Bobby Brady's dream. BANG! BANG!

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 07, 2013 10:22 AM (Ju5ZD)

221

Jayne Cobb is a villain I root for.

 

 

 

 

 

Shoot, the whole crew is a bunch of pirates.  Speaking of pirates, Depp's band of murderers, rapists and thieves (including Barbosa's gang) are all anti-heroes.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 07, 2013 10:23 AM (DoZD+)

222

208Even Oskar Schindler was a bit of a cad and opportunist. Other than that, he was a pretty good guy.

----

I thought about him. At the beginning he's just a lesser villian. A parasite feeding off the dying jews of Kracow. He's an immoral profiteer, in it for the money and the free pussy.

He's a hero because he is transformed from all of that. He is redeemed by the lives he saves.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 07, 2013 10:23 AM (SO2Q8)

223 That's why as soon as I read that a movie's main storyline is a heist they've lost me. I just have no interest in travails of career criminals. That's too bad, because Leverage was intermittently really awesome for 5 seasons. Especially the episode where they tase Wil Wheaton.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 10:24 AM (B/VB5)

224 The 'Matrix' movies Still, a lot of people were mentioning cases when the hero is the hero because the villain is worse. What I'm thinking is that you can change the type of movie slightly and swap the roles of hero and villain. Kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfout_rgPSA

Posted by: AmishDude at March 07, 2013 10:24 AM (T0NGe)

225 Posted by: © Sponge at March 07, 2013 02:20 PM (xmcEQ)

She's not as light as you think....

Posted by: Mr. Burnett at March 07, 2013 10:24 AM (GsoHv)

226 134 I know you all passed this on your SAT tests: Hagel is to Bagel as Zucker is to _________________. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2013 02:01 PM (p/cQy) ----------------- Huh? I've taken the SATs three times and I don't get that. Doughnut maybe? Facebook? Is Zucker the Facebook guy?

Posted by: Current (No more analogies) SAT kid at March 07, 2013 10:24 AM (C8mVl)

227 Just saw on twitter that the 'Daily Currant' is a satire site.

Posted by: Tami at March 07, 2013 01:39 PM (X6akg)


Yeah, that name is so serious sounding, that anybody could be fooled.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 07, 2013 10:25 AM (673KB)

228

@141 "... Take the high road, eh, Optimizer? Time to start wringing your hands. Any chance at feeling pleased that once, this month, it almost felt like we were going over to the attack? That the initiative had passed from them to us?

Why is it even necessary to have to get a sense of the Senate resolution over the question in the first place?"

 

 

I would LOVE to partake in that feeling, but this "attack" is a big tease.  There is still no attack on real issues, just this fake one to try to feel good about. It reminds me of the media "bravely speaking truth to power" by taking swipes at the oh-so-dangerous George W Bush. It's a joke. Nobody has really stood up to anybody about anything real, just a show for suckers who want to feel good thumbing "the man", like some loser who does buys into Global Warming because it affords the opportunity to feel virtuous, even though it accomplishes nothing good, and actually causes harm.

 

Holder hasn't had to answer for his (real!) contempt-of-Congress, no answers have been had on Fast and Furious or Benghazi (where we were literally told, with even MORE contempt, "What difference does it make?" - by the most likely next presidential contender, no less), the march to Socialized medicine (which will undoubtly undermine my own health someday) carries on unabated, my wife's uncle's Delphi pension remains stolen, GM remains half-nationalized, and I'm not even half-warmed up yet.

Do any of you guys even have a quote from either Obama or Holder where they claimed to have the right you say they are asserting? I didn't think so.

 

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 10:25 AM (Mxt9o)

229 It has indeed been entertaining watching the lefties tie themselves up in ideological knots over the drone program. "We WANT to support Rand Paul but, REPUBLICANS!"

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at March 07, 2013 10:25 AM (7ObY1)

230 >>>someone who by any measure is a villain

Sweeny Todd?


Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 07, 2013 10:26 AM (0q2P7)

231

I guess that, unlike Ms. Lindsey, the WH thought Rand Paul's question deserved an answer.

Stupid Ms. Lindsey.

 

And speaking of Lindsey Graham, that is one horsy grin in the sidebar.  Tell me it's photoshopped, no-one has choppers that size.

Posted by: Decaf at March 07, 2013 10:27 AM (Dqox6)

232 Dennis Leary's character in Demolition Man is an anarchist an terrorist who bombs and robs Taco Bells.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 07, 2013 10:28 AM (g7xKU)

233 Are we still in the complaining about complaining phase? Because serious you guys, I'd like to hear one of the complainers about our venting tell us what to do other than to stop giving the MFM our dollars. They get nothing from me and I steal from them when I can. Short of targeted assassination, I'm at the end of my flowchart. ------------- Well glad you asked. For example, conservatives boycott the companies that advertise on the left wing propaganda sites. Conservatives all buy a couple of shares of some media companies. We buy out Target and have them not sell products from left wing businesses. School choice. That is just off the top of my head. Venting is fine. If all we do is vent and we don't fight then we deserve to be destroyed. Ghettos organized and we now pay their phone bills. Are we too stupid or lazy to organize? Are we too ignorant? Are we just the type that enjoy being walked over and the system just can't be beat?

Posted by: GardenGnome at March 07, 2013 10:28 AM (XwDPQ)

234 Do any of you guys even have a quote from either Obama or Holder where they claimed to have the right you say they are asserting? I didn't think so.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 02:25 PM (Mxt9o)

 

It was in a letter from Holder as an anwser to a series of questions posed to him by the committee.  Senator Cruz seized on that answer and made Holder backtrack. 

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:28 AM (m2CN7)

235 Shelley Duvall in The Shining.

Posted by: elevenwing Plover at March 07, 2013 10:29 AM (KXm42)

236 "can you come up with some examples where a movie actually does this, takes someone who by any measure is a villain and, tonally, makes him a hero?"

Not a movie, but am I the only who who, in the Looney Toons cartoons, always rooted for Wile E and Sylvester and Elmer and Daffy? All the antagonists basically. You knew they were never gonna succeed, and I always wanted them to get just one win. I REALLY hated Tweety Bird in particular, which maybe that ties back into the cuteness/rage thing?

Posted by: LizLem at March 07, 2013 10:29 AM (8wqqE)

237 Actually that call was made. By the Vice President and on down the Chain of Command to the Pilot. Th Pilot never had to execute that order, but it was given and acknowledged. And properly so in my opinion

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 07, 2013 02:13 PM (9Bj8R)

 

From what I recall she (the pilot in the F-16) was unarmed and planned to run into the other plane.

 

Probably for the best. The terrorists would just have taken her sidewinders and raped everyone.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 07, 2013 10:29 AM (t06LC)

238 American Beauty spent most of the damn movie telling us how evil Ricky's dad was. Because he'd prefer that his loser ass pothead son not be a loser ass pothead. Then they caught themselves and hastily started showing him as a villian by having him shoot Kevin Spacey even though literally anyone else in the whole movie would've made more sense as the killer. Because the ex military guy must be the villian, and also secretly gay.

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at March 07, 2013 10:30 AM (qfMZe)

239 "If we had shot down one of the planes on 9/11 before it hit one of the towers, killing all on board, would that have been unconstitutional?"

Can we all just take a moment to savor the irony of Holder et al using the 9/11 planes as an example of when drone force is necessary...after years of using Cheney's admitted willingness to shoot down one of the 9/11 hijacked planes as justification that he is, in fact, eeeeevil incarnate?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 07, 2013 10:30 AM (QEUX+)

240 Oh, were totally forgetting Fight Club.

Or are you all just not talking about it?

Posted by: elevenwing at March 07, 2013 10:30 AM (KXm42)

241 That's why as soon as I read that a movie's main storyline is a heist they've lost me. I just have no interest in travails of career criminals.

That's too bad, because Leverage was intermittently really awesome for 5 seasons. Especially the episode where they tase Wil Wheaton.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 02:24 PM (B/VB5)

 

OK then.  Wil Wheaton being tased is definitely worth watching.

Posted by: Decaf at March 07, 2013 10:31 AM (Dqox6)

242

I took this from the IMDB Errol Flynn version

"With King Richard the Lionhearted away fighting wars in the Holy Land, his brother Prince John seizes the Regency. The Normans are hard on the Saxon peasants, and when Prince John learns that Richard is being held for ransom in Vienna, he taxes them beyond all reasonable limits supposedly to pay for his release. Sir Robin of Locksley, a Saxon lord, rebels against the Prince and his principal henchman, Sir Guy of Gisbourne. Declared an outlaw, he takes up residence in Sherwood Forest and begins to surround himself with those who are loyal to King Richard: "

 

I don't see fighting against tyranny as making you a villain. How should the founding fathers (a bunch of traitors) be treated?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 07, 2013 10:31 AM (SO2Q8)

243 From what I recall she (the pilot in the F-16) was unarmed and planned to run into the other plane. Probably for the best. The terrorists would just have taken her sidewinders and raped everyone. Posted by: Jollyroger at March 07, 2013 02:29 PM (t06LC) I don't remember any female pilots being involved but I do specifically remember a male pilot being interviewed that he was given permission to launch his weapons and he was armed.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 07, 2013 10:31 AM (9Bj8R)

244 Honestly I think were all supposed to hate Tweety Bird.

Posted by: elevenwing at March 07, 2013 10:32 AM (KXm42)

245

Anti hero movies? Seriously? There is a metric shit ton of them.

 

Hell, Brando usually played one. There were classes of them in the 70s, Scarface in the 80s, anything Tarantino, Hannibal had his own show...

 

Hollywood loves the antihero.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 07, 2013 10:32 AM (t06LC)

246 I mentioned Heat above.  I think everyone was rooting for De Niro to get away with his girlfriend.

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:32 AM (m2CN7)

247 Doctor Phibes? He's insidious.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at March 07, 2013 10:33 AM (QupBk)

248

@246

 

I remember there was a chick who gave an interview a few years ago. I think it was linked here. She was on Wasington aircap that day.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 07, 2013 10:33 AM (t06LC)

249 243 Never talk about not talking about fight club.

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at March 07, 2013 10:33 AM (qfMZe)

250 Not a movie, but am I the only who who, in the Looney Toons cartoons, always rooted for Wile E and Sylvester and Elmer and Daffy? All the antagonists basically. You knew they were never gonna succeed, and I always wanted them to get just one win. I REALLY hated Tweety Bird in particular, which maybe that ties back into the cuteness/rage thing?

Posted by: LizLem at March 07, 2013 02:29 PM (8wqqE)

 

Me too, I found Tweety Bird dethpicable.

Posted by: Decaf at March 07, 2013 10:34 AM (Dqox6)

251 The Professional - assassin turned guardian

Posted by: Lizzy at March 07, 2013 10:35 AM (QEUX+)

252 Tweety Bird was nothing compared to the villany of the Road Runner.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 07, 2013 10:36 AM (B/VB5)

253 No Way Out - a surprise, but the Russian sleeper spy is portrayed as being more heroic than the Sec of Defense

Posted by: Lizzy at March 07, 2013 10:36 AM (QEUX+)

254

Jayne Cobb is a villain I root for. Shoot, the whole crew is a bunch of pirates.

----

Another case of the lesser villians. The Alliance is the Villian of the series and Serenity's crew is sort of freedom fighters. (not so much Jayne). I contrast that with the Bonnie and Clyde i mentioned. Simple criminals without any redeeming cause.

An interesting case might be John Brown, i could imagine making a movie casting him as hero or villian.

 

 

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 07, 2013 10:36 AM (SO2Q8)

255 240 From what I recall she (the pilot in the F-16) was unarmed and planned to run into the other plane.

"F-16 pilot was ready to give her life on Sept. 11"- http://wapo.st/nmBMSW

Posted by: 80sBaby at March 07, 2013 10:37 AM (YjDyJ)

256

Doctor Phibes?

 

 



He's insidious.

 

He's abominable.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 07, 2013 10:37 AM (zF6Iw)

257 231 ---"... just a show for suckers ...." Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 02:25 PM (Mxt9o) --------------- I am sorry to inform you that politics at the national level today mostly IS a "show for suckers." Images. Political theater. Soundbites. It is high time that people in the GOP grasped that. You CANNOT limit yourself to charts, math, logic, and common sense. You cannot rely on polite conversation. You need the stuff for grown-ups, yes, but you also have to fight the leftist drama with drama, feelings with feelings, wedge issues (real or imagined) with wedge issues.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 07, 2013 10:39 AM (C8mVl)

258 "237Do any of you guys even have a quote from either Obama or Holder where they claimed to have the right you say they are asserting? I didn't think so.
Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 02:25 PM (Mxt9o)

It was in a letter from Holder as an anwser to a series of questions posed to him by the committee. Senator Cruz seized on that answer and made Holder backtrack."   What's the quote? Make me feel stupid and uninformed - please! All I have seen is clips from Holder's actual testimony, and he does not assert any such authority. He actually asserts the contrary, IIRC.  At any rate, we're getting spun up over a hypothetical - because Obama has refused to tell us yet another bold-faced lie, as soon as we DEMAND it!! It's madness.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 10:40 AM (Mxt9o)

259 He's abominable. Ah, he is. I sit corrected.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at March 07, 2013 10:41 AM (QupBk)

260 Try this one. Sympathize with Lex Luthor. A billionaire genius, who uses his intelligence to rise from nothing to almost conquering the world. He violates many laws yes, but so does Superman every day. Yet he is reviled, when his machines and business employ thousands and enrich the lives of countless individuals. He uses his intelligence for his own benefit, and yes he is "evil" to his enemies. But superman is an egotistical moron, who uses godlike powers for what exactly? To save the lives of a couple hundred people a year, stop a series of petty crimes, and spy on millions of free law abiding citizens of metropolis. Superman is a douche illegal immigrant scumbag, always root for Luthor.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 07, 2013 10:41 AM (g7xKU)

261

@260

 

'... I am sorry to inform you that politics at the national level today mostly IS a "show for suckers." Images. Political theater. Soundbites. '

 

I'm sure it has been for longer than I've been alive. The point is for US - in this forum - not to be the suckers.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 10:42 AM (Mxt9o)

262 In "After the Wedding" (Danish film), the set up a do-gooder world traveler vs. a greedy capitalist. By the end of the film it's the capitalist who has a heart because he financially supports the do-gooder and steadfastly loves his family and the do-gooder who looks pathetic because he's never put any person above his need to save the world. 

Posted by: Lizzy at March 07, 2013 10:44 AM (QEUX+)

263 just listened to that AP video a bit closer- why is the audience heckling the sandy hook dad at the end?

Posted by: Nino at March 07, 2013 10:46 AM (eyuLr)

264 246 From what I recall she (the pilot in the F-16) was unarmed and planned to run into the other plane. Probably for the best. The terrorists would just have taken her sidewinders and raped everyone. Posted by: Jollyroger at March 07, 2013 02:29 PM (t06LC) I don't remember any female pilots being involved but I do specifically remember a male pilot being interviewed that he was given permission to launch his weapons and he was armed. Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 07, 2013 02:31 PM (9Bj8R) I remember the interview with the female pilot. Her plane wasn't armed and she was gonna ram the hijacked plane to bring it down if she had to.

Posted by: Joejm65 at March 07, 2013 10:49 AM (UZuc4)

265

This discussion had me consider just the opposite scenario.

 

John McCain was considered a hero for quite sometime for his service and POW conduct. 

 

John McCain now, at least to me,  is the diametric opposite of a hero.  His conduct is similar to betrayal in addition to being a whiney, arrogant snot.  He has no traits of heroism and he used up all  of  his  reserves.  

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:50 AM (m2CN7)

266 Falling Down- We know we shouldn't root for a guy who is busting up the local convenience store and shooting up a fast food joint but man, who has not had at least a twinge of similar fantasy.


Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 07, 2013 10:51 AM (WVMUQ)

267 Them very grateful! Scream with happiness!

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 07, 2013 10:51 AM (Ju5ZD)

268 But I thought MSNBC had a lock on reporter whiteness???

Posted by: Gmac - Waiting for the revolution at March 07, 2013 10:55 AM (IanLz)

269

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 02:40 PM (Mxt9o

 

Holder indicated that under extraordinary circumstances it a strike would be allowed.

 

 

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — Attorney General Eric Holder and Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, got into a heated discussion during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing about the use of drones against American citizens.

Questioning Holder about a letter he sent to Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., in which the attorney general said it would take an “extraordinary circumstance” to use a drone to kill an American on U.S. soil, Cruz asked if such lethal force would be constitutional.

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 10:58 AM (m2CN7)

270

People don't like to hear this, but being a POW doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you less lucky than the guy wasn't, and more lucky (usually) than the guy who was KIA. The heroism lies in going into combat, putting your life on the line for the country. The guys who came out OK were just as heroic as the ones who didn't. In SOME cases, there must have been guys who did something stupid, and got themselves in trouble that way - which is not heroic. The elevation of those who got hurt is basically survivor's guilt, more than actual heroism.

 

That being said, Sen McCain MEETS my criteria - he put himself at risk in service to the country. Shame on anyone who questions his heroism, regardless of his current shortcomings. It would have been refreshing to have a war hero in the WH again.

 

You're also forgetting about how he refused special treatment while he was a POW. Again, he may currently be a disappointment in many ways, but shame on anyone for questioning his character and downplaying his service.  He may not be heroic these days, but that doesn't take away from what he has done in the past. By the same token, "past results do not guarantee future returns"...

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 11:05 AM (Mxt9o)

271 "A movie can only have one Hero" Gotta take issue with that, Ace. Lots of movies have more than one hero. For example, the Dirty Dozen had twelve, and the Magnificent Seven had seven. Actually, there were more than seven if you count the villagers, but you get the idea. It's more accurate to say a movie can have only one heroic side, and we know which side the MFM designates the hero and which the villain. And the heroic side needs a leader, and that is King Barry.

Posted by: Pervy Grin at March 07, 2013 11:07 AM (OxKj2)

272 >>>People don't like to hear this, but being a POW doesn't make you a hero, it just makes you less lucky than the guy wasn't,

McCain, for as much as I despise him now, was not a hero for being a POW. He was a hero for being a heroic resistor in the face of repeated, actual torture. Read the accounts of the guys who were there.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 07, 2013 11:12 AM (WVMUQ)

273 "...but shame on anyone for questioning his [McCain's] character and downplaying his service. He may not be heroic these days, but that doesn't take away from what he has done in the past. By the same token, "past results do not guarantee future returns"...

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 03:05 PM (Mxt9o)

 

Agreed. I don't like attempts to denigrate McCain's character or downplay his service. He's wrongheaded much of the time and almost Bidenesque in his inability to understand what's going on around him and his daughter is a complete ditz, but I don't doubt his love of country.  

Posted by: troyriser at March 07, 2013 11:12 AM (vtiE6)

274 If Rand Paul is Mr. Smith gone to Washington, then Barack is Sen. Paine, who must be restrained from shooting himself at the conclusion.  I think we should step back in this instance and see how it plays out. 

Posted by: glide55 at March 07, 2013 11:14 AM (Z2aee)

275

Posted by: Optimizer at March 07, 2013 03:05 PM (Mxt9o)

 

I did not question his heroism in the past, but I question his character now and for the past twenty years.  He has done much to betray the things I believe in and his heroism in the past does not bind me to everlasting servitude.

 

I can name a few military men on the top of my head who showed great heroism who unfortunately made bad and immoral choices subsequent to that heroism.   They do not get the respect you demand for McCain.

Posted by: polynikes at March 07, 2013 11:30 AM (m2CN7)

276 Aren't you supposed to find the villains in some new show, I think it's called the Americans, palatable even though they are the enemy. I keep hearing people talk about this.

Posted by: Snarky the Bear at March 07, 2013 12:15 PM (/b8+5)

277 "Superman is a douche illegal immigrant scumbag, always root for Luthor." Grant Morrison's said something similar. Luthor does evil things for selfish reasons, but he's also the underdog. A lone human in open warfare against an alien with godlike powers. He can't win, but his pride won't let him stop trying. John Milton would understand this perfectly: Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.

Posted by: GalosGann at March 07, 2013 12:44 PM (T3KlW)

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