1 Kirsten Powers is not as hot as she used to be, so maybe now she has to start acting like a real journalist.

2 Kirsten Powers is old.

3 they're not against "extremism" so long as it's extremism of the left

Which to the left is an oxymoron.  You can't be left and too extreme. 

4 Damn.  A female liberal with a conscience and a mind.

Soon to be torn apart by the MFM in 3...2...1...

5 #1 and #2,  she is married to a Coptic Christian Egyptian,  so perhaps she has learned when life begins.

I appreciate her coming forward on this,  because I am sure she is going to get a lot of flack.

6 Kristen is starting to see the light.

7 I'm still horrified that Gosnell will walk.  And then Barry O will hire him to replace Kathleen Sibelious.

8
Kirsten Powers Fun Fact

Kirsten Powers briefly dated former Congressman Anthony Weiner in 2002, and remained his close friend after their romantic relationship ended.

9

KP: I never want to return to the days of gruesome back-alley abortions.

 

 

Don't tell me what went on in Gosnell's House of  Horrors isn't gruesome.

10

She is slowly seeing the light. She did date Anthony Weiner, pretty hard to live that one down. Why is her hair always orange ?

11 Keep your laws out of my vagina, wingnuts!!!!

12 the days of gruesome back-alley abortions.

Ugh. So tired of hearing this ignorant cliche.

13 The "using religion to take away choice!" chestnut, also, needs to be retired.

14 She will be back to her old prog self on the next subject. Blind squirrel, nut, etc.

15 That's Kathleen Syphilius

16 Don't want to be forced in to the days of gruesome back alley gun sales.

17 Ace, I'm surprised you passed on the "science is settled" layup.

18

I've been following the Kirsten Powers conservative transformation for a couple years now.  Her transformation is taking longer than most...but  she just mouths most liberal positions nowadays.  Probably  to maintain her paying gigs.

 

Always knew she was too pretty for a liberal.  

19 Ignore that unfortunate mess in Dr. Gosnell's abbatoir and just keep repeating, Safe, Legal and Rare.  Safe, Legal and Rare.

20

Barky, himself, is an extremist...by his own definition. 

 

His idea of 'compromise' is to do it his way, or not at all.

If you don't do what he wants...then you are labeled "unreasonable" and an extremist.

 

So if you copy his behavior, then he calls you an extremist.

 

21 I never want to return to the days of gruesome back-alley abortions. You don't need to. Nowadays, you can go into spiffy Planned Parenthood Clinics for gruesome abortions.

22 Pardon my French, but "the life of the mother" is a crock of Obama. Not only is it so rare that it isn't an issue whatsoever, it isn't an "abortion" if a doctor gets rid of it to save your life. No one walks into an abortion clinic with a prescription for an abortion to "save their life". They go to the hospital and it gets done as part of a regular medical procedure.

23 His idea of 'compromise' is to do it his way, or not at all.  If you don't do what he wants...then you are labeled "unreasonable" and an extremist.


Did somebody summon me again?

24 Kirsten slips up and lets her intelligence show every once in a while!

25 Kathleen says, just knock em in the head with a hammer and we're good to go. I think I'll be safer with the troop.

26

I think the gruesomeness of Gosnell's "practice"  should be recited to every single abortion-rights proponent. And I'm talking getting down and dirty with the descriptions, right to their faces.

 

Make them own the barbarity, the jars full of infants' feet, the snipped spines of newborns,  the babies flushed    down the toilets,   the deaths of the adults.

 

"This is what  you support?    How do you call yourself   human?"

 

I am so over being   civil to these people anymore.

27 If we could get MTV to televise just one  "late-term" abortion on Teenage Moms, the abortion debate would be settled in one day.

28 This is racism. Straight up.

29 We're for abortions at 52+ weeks, too, if it means ridding society of superfluous conservatives... just so you know.

30 They go to the hospital and it gets done as part of a regular medical procedure.

Posted by: U.W.P. at May 06, 2013 07:49 PM (o+Mtb)

Excellent point.  Any high risk mother to be that actually has her life on the line with a continued pregnancy is certainly going to look in the Yellow pages or Yelp to find the nearest abortion provider to keep her safe!

31 They pretend they're all in the fetal position, waiting for baby fetishists to roll back their rights to the 1950s, but we sure did go fast from "Don't like abortion? Don't have one" to "I don't give a f*ck what you think, you're paying for this sh*t" . . . because 'rights.'

32 I welcome anyone who sees that you can't just go around killing babies, even if they are your own.  Even if they're inconvenient.  I'm 100% pro-life, but I'm glad to work with anyone at any stage they may be along that spectrum, as long as they are heading in the right direction.  I think a good place to start is where both sides have common ground.  If the baby is big enough to walk to the school bus, then you can't murder it.  Agreed, Kirsten?

Now, onto the next step.

33 Good for Kirsten Powers. Gosnell is the face of abortion no matter how they want to play it. Who really thinks he is alone in "fudging" sonogram results so the "woman" can control the contents of her uterus? This is the reason there was little press before a full-court press and they could no longer ignore the facts of infanticide in PA.

34 Unsafe, illegal, and often!

35 If you really want to be disgusted, read the following: A man considers that his wife should terminate one of two twins she is carrying because it would be a inconvenience in this life: http://tinyurl.com/bvybdsx An older article where a woman with triplets has two of them killed in utero because she's have to end up shopping at Costco and stuff: http://tinyurl.com/cnj7ux4

36 It occurred to me today that you cannot buy a hamburger in a place that hasn't been inspected out the wazoo by the food inspectors, but you can have your baby pulled out or sucked out or flushed out fetus aborted in a place where inspectors are never allowed to go because that might interfere with a woman's right to kill her baby choose.

37 The analogy works on the "America is an outlier among the Wetsern world" level too. I.e, if Obama wants to tell Mexico that we should have guns laws like it... Then why not abortion laws like Mexico too?

38 Not a fan of the RINO, NJ's Chrispy Creme, but there now are ads running in this area in which he's accused of having defunded (or wanting to defund) Planned Eugenics (superimposed over a wide-eyed and mopey female of some ethnic persuasion), so he's "...not right for New Jersey".

39 "easonable and sincere people can disagree about when meaningful life begins."

Interesting. Having conceded the origin of life at conception in the first sentence, she then tacks on the subjective qualifier of "meaningful," a wholly subjective quality on the part of those whose desire it is to end that life. As I recall, the world "meaningful" doesn't appear in the list of unalienable rights appurtenant to the status of "human being."

40

Last week, on The Five, Greg Gutfeld had a great line: "The media didn't want to report on Gosnell because they were afraid what they would see in their own soul."  

It's time conservatives really make a stand against abortion. The facts are on our side, the emotions are on our side and there are a thousand ways to push back,  starting with such strict abortion clinic mandates that it makes them costly and near impossible to operate. 

41 Over at Business Insider, Grace Wyler argued that the lesson of Gosnell is we're not permissive enough, because of Brazil, and machismo and stuff. If you want to dump on her in the comments, go here.

42 http://www.businessinsider.com/illegal-abortions-2013-5

43 Not long after Gosnell was exposed, a state Rep from PA (from the T, I believe, not one of the cities) suggested that perhaps abortion clinics should be held up to the higher standards of any other medical facility. Planned Parenthood, of course, wigged out, subjecting these places to inspection might cause undue hardship and cause more Gosnells. Without irony, of course. Our state GOP backed down, of course. Their biggest priority is privatising liquor stores. A noble goal, indeed, but in true GOP fashion, have squandered their golden opportunity to make serious changes in many key areas. If only Scott Walker could be cloned.

44 Leftism is a mental disorder, not a real political ideology.  Once you accept that    everything else about politics becomes crystal clear.  And, yes,     Cassandra, it matters for whom you vote or don't vote.  Any ballot not in favor     of the "R" side is a de facto ballot in favor of NARAL, NOW, Emily's     List and Kermit Gosnell, M.D.,to be in charge of the entire country    and to be in charge of your future along with those of your kids and     grandkids. 

45 I never want to return to the days of gruesome back-alley abortions. ============== There were no such "days" It is all a myth.

46 A few weeks ago, Warren Myer made the exact same observation that abortion rights and gun rights are mirror image issues where you can't compromise, because the advocates want outright bans, not some sort of middle ground policy: http://tinyurl.com/churat2

47

I can't help but remember Justice Clarence Thomas'  reference to "natural rights." This  issue, IMO, fits    his     definition well.

 

Life at conception, if left alone to Nature  and Nature's God, results in a human. I'm of course discounting real diseases or other causes. I'm speaking in general.

48 huerfano - that is why the big outcry when VA voted to make these clinics head strict healthcare laws.  That means that clinics will have close because they don't meet these codes.

Restaurants have to close if they violate health laws and don't clean up their act.  But abortion clinics?  No problem says PP.

49

There's been more MSM coverage of "The Cicadas Are Coming"...than the Gosnell trial.

 

Which is only a story for the NE part of the county, because we get those noisy little buggers every summer, here in OK.

 

Yet another reason for Liberals to stay away from OK.

The Cicadas will getcha.

 

50 I'm okay with late term abortion  for  people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

51 Kristen Powers voted for infanticide enabler Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012. That more than anything else should illustrate the depth of he "pro life" convictions.

52 If you found out that you had a twin or triplet that that was killed in utero, how would you feel? How could you ever trust your mother who only let you live because perhaps you were positioned such that it was harder to stab you with a needle then you deceased twin or triplet?

53 Just put the facts out there in the most plain and simple terms,accompanied by the most graphic photos and descriptions. Maybe take some Liberal ass hat to to the clinic and let them see first hand what they're proponents of. Same goes for war. If more people saw it first hand, smelled it, got some on them there would be a lot less of it.

54 Pardon my French, but "the life of the mother" is a crock of Obama. ========= Get out! You mean if the mother is having serious complications and bleeding severely the doctor isn't going to order a partial-birth abortion procedure that includes "Some may keep dilators in the cervix for two days, while others use dilators for a day or less"?? LIAR!

55 44 Any ballot not in favor of the "R" side is a de facto ballot in favor of NARAL, NOW, Emily's List and Kermit Gosnell, M.D.,to be in charge of the entire country and to be in charge of your future along with those of your kids and grandkids. Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at May 06, 2013 07:59 PM (pmsMR) You know, you're really getting tiresome. That train left the station last November.

56 I'm wondering if a lot of these "back alley abortion" horror stories that allegedly happened prior to Roe v. Wade is just bunk. Was it really a common occurrence?

57 Sturmfurher Kathleen say's This is the next Black Cow"

58 Yeah, because Gosnell's abattoir was state-of-the-art.

59

47...Life at conception, if left alone to Nature and Nature's God, results in a human.

 

But Liberals claim to be all for Nature, and what is 'All Natural'.

 

There is nothing 'All Natural' about an abortion.

 

60
"middle ground" compromises are the mark of a dying culture

and "middle ground" compromises have a knack of always favoring the Left

61 If the left wanted abortion to always be safe they would gladly go back to the original Roe V Wade decision that said 12 weeks or fetus is viable (and I'm pretty sure most of them meant viable IN the womb not able to survive after induced labor BTW) and the viable as opposed to a hard 12 weeks was to make sure state's laws didn't interfere with procedures in cases where the fetus was not developing normally and was not going to survive. 

The fact that they fight for restrictions to catch and stop Gosnell type cases is proof that they'd just as soon those "urban trash" wimmens die.  

62 When I think of a pregnant woman having a complication where her "health" or "life" are in danger, this is totally like a sane response to said danger: After sufficient dilation the surgical operation can commence. The woman is placed under general anesthesia or conscious sedation. The doctor, often guided by ultrasound, inserts grasping forceps through the womanÂ’s cervix and into the uterus to grab the fetus. The doctor grips a fetal part with the forceps and pulls it back through the cervix and vagina, continuing to pull even after meeting resistance from the cervix. The friction causes the fetus to tear apart. For example, a leg might be ripped off the fetus as it is pulled through the cervix and out of the woman. The process of evacuating the fetus piece by piece continues until it has been completely removed. A doctor may make 10 to 15 passes with the forceps to evacuate the fetus in its entirety, though sometimes removal is completed with fewer passes. Once the fetus has been evacuated, the placenta and any remaining fetal material are suctioned or scraped out of the uterus. The doctor examines the different parts to ensure the entire fetal body has been removed. --GONZALES v. CARHART

63 [i[Leftism is a mental disorder, not a real political ideology. Once you accept that everything else about politics becomes crystal clear.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II[/i]

I prefer the pseudo-religion framework. Mental illness doesn't really require automatic gainsaying of demonstrably true elements of human nature; menz and wimmenz are interchangeable, high taxes don't discourage productivity, America's success is due to its evilness, etc.

The Left really come across as a broken and half-assed cult, defiantly standing in the face of our physical world and human nature.

64

*scribbles "Crock of Obama"  in the   margins of AoSHQ Style Manual*

65 While I can appreciate the times that Powers has come out against this Administration and some issues - I believe that she will always vote Democratic which endorses these policies.

Only if I see that she has a true epiphany will I believe her.

66 A few weeks ago, Warren Myer made the exact same observation that abortion rights and gun rights are mirror image issues where you can't compromise, because the advocates want outright bans, not some sort of middle ground policy: http://tinyurl.com/churat2 Posted by: Stirner at May 06, 2013 08:02 PM (Ytuz I don't think that that is true. With guns, the left could very well scare or brainwash people enough to push through a total gun ban (they only need on chance). Even when states restrict them, it is difficult for them to ban them outright (even before the Heller decision)... such as when Massachusetts tried to ban all handguns in the liberal dominated '70's... and failed miserably. With abortion, if it were left up to the states, would in probably end up with a more European style early limit on abortion, and most people would probably be fine with that. Getting rid of a fertilized egg will probably be something most people would allow, just as banning partial birth abortions is what most people would prohibit... Admittedly, an effect of Roe has been to divide people between each extreme, like guns, but with guns it is the left who have to tread softly.

67 44 Leftism is a mental disorder, not a real political ideology. Once you accept that everything else about politics becomes crystal clear. And, yes, Cassandra, it matters for whom you vote or don't vote. Any ballot not in favor of the "R" side is a de facto ballot in favor of NARAL, NOW, Emily's List and Kermit Gosnell, M.D.,to be in charge of the entire country and to be in charge of your future along with those of your kids and grandkids. AMEN. !!!!!!!!

68 Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness begins at conception.

69 51 Kristen Powers voted for infanticide enabler Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012. That more than anything else should illustrate the depth of he "pro life" convictions. Posted by: Ernie McCracken at May 06, 2013 08:04 PM (ZETiK) I don't think she voted for him in 2012.

70 I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where the Constitution says anything about abortion.

71 Ugh.  Sorry I really needed to proof read and edit at 61.
 
The fact that the left fights AGAINST inspections and sanitary standards should be thrown in their face as proof that they must want poor urban women encouraged to wait until that fetus is a baby (per Kirsten's words) and then going to a Dr Gosnell type horror shop where they will at minimum suffer serious mental distress and could very well wind up with serious infections, injuries or even death. 

72 SHE IS A TRAITOR AND A ENEMY OF PROGRESS AND MUST BE DESTROYED!!!!!

73 "Protection of the life of the mother as an excuse for an abortion is a smoke screen. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I have never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the mother's life. If toward the end of the pregnancy complications arise that threaten the mother's health, the doctor will induce labor or perform a Caesarean section. His intention is to save the life of both the mother and the baby. The baby's life is never willfully destroyed because the mother's life is in danger." -C. Everett Koop, M.D., former U.S. Surgeon General

74 I'm wondering if a lot of these "back alley abortion" horror stories that allegedly happened prior to Roe v. Wade is just bunk. Was it really a common occurrence? Posted by: The ACC Sucks at May 06, 2013 08:05 PM (Rk8LS) IIRC, Chile banned most abortions after they had been legal. They found that "back alley" abortions didn't result in increased death to the mother (quite the opposite, IIRC).

75 LOL... the NRA is nothing like the pro-choicers. The NRA tries to protect our constitutional rights. The pro-choicers try to infringe on states' rights (to be fair so do the pro-lifers).

76

There is nothing 'All Natural' about an abortion. 

 

Exactly.

 

These Leftarded idiots need to be confronted with their bullshit. Make them uncomfortable, prick their conscience, make them see  their confusions  and contradictions.  Some of them will wake up, as KP  is attempting to do.

 

The rest?  We'll deal with them later. They are the ones who should be marginalized. This Gosnell case is   good,  in that it gives us the opportunity to highlight the   inhuman practices   that our government has somehow  deemed  "legal."

 

"What the fuck is wrong with you?"  seems like a good retort to these people.

77 If you found out that you had a twin or triplet that that was killed in utero, how would you feel? How could you ever trust your mother who only let you live because perhaps you were positioned such that it was harder to stab you with a needle then you deceased twin or triplet? Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:04 PM (XvHmy) Speaking as a twin, I'd be pretty pissed and probably psychologically screwed up.

78 Can't find anything to back up my assertion that she didn't vote for him though.

79

I used to be like Kirsten on abortion--but all the scientific research supports "No Late-Term Abortion." (Progs love science, except when they don't, like on the abortion issue.)

The reason for no limits on abortion is STOP H8IN' WIMYN, U H8ERS.

80 Food producers under maximum government scrutiny = Good governmentZ!!!

Abortion providers under maximum government scrutiny = Bad, evil, wimmen-hating!!!

81 OT/But I see the Justice Dept. is going to monitor the SC election tomorrow....

82 >>>"Protection of the life of the mother as an excuse for an abortion is a smoke screen. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I have never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the mother's life. If toward the end of the pregnancy complications arise that threaten the mother's health, the doctor will induce labor or perform a Caesarean section. His intention is to save the life of both the mother and the baby. The baby's life is never willfully destroyed because the mother's life is in danger."


-C. Everett Koop, M.D., former U.S. Surgeon General

Posted by: U.W.P. at May 06, 2013 08:15 PM (o+Mtb)

 

***

 

THIS. I have always, always thought this.  If the mother's health is in danger, why in the hell would you try to pull the baby through the birth canal? Of course you would do a C-section,  if health of the mother was the concern.  The problem though is that at the end of the C-section you have a live baby. Hence the 'notion' that you protect the mother's health by delivering the baby through the birth canal and then killing it as it emerges.

 

It's the fucking lies that I can't abide.

83 Mark Levin slicing thru Benghazi like a boss. Wish he were the committee.

84 Furthermore, someone needs to tell the guy that multiples entertain each other. Comes in handy a lot.

85 Well, here's a new one- 'Imagine if you men were too poor to have children.. and had to get a back alley vasectomy.'

86

Posted by: U.W.P. at May 06, 2013 08:15 PM (o+Mtb)

 

 

I study a lot of these cases and I can't only point to one solitary case of this.  And it's the so called "phoenix case" that arose about 2 years back now.

 

But it was strange, bizarre, and probably could have been handled different before it reached the train wreck outcome it did.  (And there's still debate over whether labor could have been induced in that case.)

 

But, what also made it unique was the mother in that case was pro-life and wanted to carry the baby as far as possible before inducing labor to give it the best chance.  Then things went pear shaped in little more than 48 hours leading to the catastrophe it became. (And for what it's worth I'm not touching that case with a 10 foot pole.  I may oscillate between crazy and career suicidal, but I'm not THAT crazy or career suicidal.)

87 >>>Life at conception, if left alone to Nature and Nature's God, results in a human. I'm of course discounting real diseases or other causes. I'm speaking in general.

Oh if you want my to go ballistic on you, give me the liberal tripe "God aborts almost one in five of every child conceived" (or the like) God kills us all in time; You've just made an argument why that makes it OK for someone to kill YOU right now.

88 83 Mark Levin slicing thru Benghazi like a boss. Wish he were the committee. Posted by: thunderb at May 06, 2013 08:20 PM (EZYc I wish they'd put him in the gallery one time.

89 >>>"Protection of the life of the mother as an excuse for an abortion is a smoke screen. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I have never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the mother's life. If toward the end of the pregnancy complications arise that threaten the mother's health, the doctor will induce labor or perform a Caesarean section. His intention is to save the life of both the mother and the baby. The baby's life is never willfully destroyed because the mother's life is in danger." -C. Everett Koop, M.D., former U.S. Surgeon General Posted by: U.W.P. at May 06, 2013 08:15 PM (o+Mtb) *** THIS. I have always, always thought this. If the mother's health is in danger, why in the hell would you try to pull the baby through the birth canal? Of course you would do a C-section, if health of the mother was the concern. The problem though is that at the end of the C-section you have a live baby. Hence the 'notion' that you protect the mother's health by delivering the baby through the birth canal and then killing it as it emerges. It's the fucking lies that I can't abide. Posted by: LGoPs at May 06, 2013 08:19 PM (4x8W0) There are cases where an abortion may be necessary to save the life of a mother. Extopic (i.e. tubal) pregnancies are such an example: http://tinyurl.com/ccocgg3

90 meaningful news from Yahoo, about 20 minutes ago:

Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss didn't seem fazed by a rare congressional invitation to golf with President Barack Obama Monday, sinking a hole-in-one on the par-three 11th hole. The ace shot helped lead Chambliss and GOP teammate Sen. Bob Corker or Tennessee to victory over the Democratic duo of Obama and Colorado Sen. Mark Udall on an outing meant to strengthen ties between the president and Congress.

91

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:24 PM (XvHmy)

 

In fairness to Koop, they hadn't invented abortion pills yet, so abortion was not the treatment, Tube removal was.

92 >>>There are cases where an abortion may be necessary to save the life of a mother. Extopic (i.e. tubal) pregnancies are such an example:

http://tinyurl.com/ccocgg3

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:24 PM (XvHmy)

 

***

 

Then I stand corrected. I suspect the number requiring that is probably very small and in a sane society, would be  taken care of anyway.

93 I know enough people who are pro-abortion rights—indeed, I was one of them for most of my life—to know that reasonable and sincere people can disagree about when meaningful life begins. Hubris is the disease of our time.

94 Liberal illogic:

Killing puppies & kitties bad!  Unless your PETA - that's okay

Crazy people with guns killing people is bad - so take away the rights of legal gun owners under the guise of "It's for the children!"

Abortion on Demand - Great! Choice!  But taxpayers need to pay for it and the Catholic church and other religions must adhere to our abortion mandates!

Bush - War Criminal, Hitler, 9/11 inside job

Obama - President Gutsy Call!  Got OBL! Long Live our King!  Loved around the world

Bush - Dumbass!

Obama - Dreamy!

Actually I could keep going on this list but it is making me kind of sick.

95 Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:24 PM (XvHmy) In fairness to Koop, they hadn't invented abortion pills yet, so abortion was not the treatment, Tube removal was. Posted by: tsrblke at May 06, 2013 08:26 PM (GaqMa) Yes. I know someone who went through that. I was told she had a breakdown over it.

96 I wonder if Gosnell had yanked a tiny human out of a woman and shot it, would the leftist media then have a problem with it, or would they defend the second amendment in this scenario.

97 --GONZALES v. CARHART

Posted by: Jay in PA at May 06, 2013 08:07 PM (WSgyE)

Even the most hardened pro-abortion voter, when faced with this reality, has to cringe. I hope so, anyway...that they would want to save a puppy from a puppy mill...or gasp when Chris Christie kills a spider, then continue to believe in the "clump of cells fetus" and not cringe at the thought of infanticide and Gosnell's hell clinic. Kirsten is correct...I never once referred to the baby growing within me as a "fetus."

The "clump of cells" picture is what progressives cling to, that and their misshapen belief in "rights" yet denying the rights of a human infant. It is quite the conundrum for them, no? Yet they yap on. This, and other liberal causes, have become their idol and the altar upon which they worship. These "open-minded" people are only open-minded to their own repetitive lies which the media and politicians perpetuate.

When progressive issues invade churches, as it has, we have a problem...but it is a hill I may die on as I have stood up to our own denomination and left, a week ago, for a reformed church, created due to the differences and wishing to adhere to Biblical teachings. In fact, as I had no idea who the guy in the suit was at a recent meeting or I may have been shy, I laid bare my soul and challenged the suits. I told him (a head honcho of the state in our denomination) that I will someday answer to God and not these "leaders." Liberals have empowered me, and they had better get off my lawn.

98 Of course, the comparison to the NRA falls apart immediately.  The NRA is protecting a constitutional right that has already been severely infringed in the minds of many, including me. 

NARAL is fighting against the right of unborn babies to be born.  We have a right to life; there is not a right for someone else to kill us because we aren't convenient.

Of course, that argument won't work in real life because Look, Squirrels!

99

I'm sorry, I just can't deal with an argument that starts with "people can disagree about when life begins." No, they can't. It's a scientific fact. There's no personhood fairy.  We can mark the exact moment when the male and female pronuclei fuse to form a new, unique human being. Saying that people can disagree with this fact is like saying that people can disagree that water is H20.

 

 

100 I never want to return to the days of gruesome back-alley abortions.

So you're fine with Gosnell since he was out in the open? So noted.

101 OT Do you harbor unkind thoughts about lawyers? If so this will make your day. (with Star Trek references) http://tinyurl.com/cqng8hp

102 COAT HANGERS!

103

Posted by: Cheri at May 06, 2013 08:30 PM (EAgmr)

 

 

Posted by: wattyler1381 at May 06, 2013 08:31 PM (F2Vrz)

 

If we don't impose our will upon these "people,"  then they'll impose their will upon us.

 

A big part of the problem is that we didn't when we had the  opportunity. This whole abortion   issue just might get turned around with the right kind of societal pressure.

 

Maybe prefacing   my "WTFIWWY?"   with "You can't be serious, didn't you hear about Gosnell?"  would be prudent.  This is a big enough story to where only those who willfully ignore the news haven't heard    about it.

104 Also, fun fact. Who performed "back alley abortions"? Doctors. The same doctors who openly performed them when abortion was legalized. Do you know why they're called "back alley abortions?" not because they were literally performed in the alley. The were called "back alley abortions" because the women entered the doctor's office from the back alley to avoid suspicions. There were no coat hangers.

105 Weird story:


Two women who went missing as teenagers about a decade ago were found alive Monday in a residential area just south of downtown, within a few miles of where they disappeared.



CBS affiliate WOIO in Cleveland reports police arrested a 52-year-old man at the house where the three women were found.



http://tinyurl.com/c2p88qe

106

107 89:  But its very rare that an extopic pregnancy would not be so painful that it was terminated early.    I suspect a great many people are not extremist on this and would like us to be more like Europe on this particular issue.   If you don't want an abortion at all don't have one, but if you don't want a child and suspect you might be pregnant you must take action STAT, not wait until that fetus is clearly a tiny baby  -- and yup have the state set a time limit to counter the general  human tendency towards laziness. 

108 Oh nice, I just found out via twitter that the little wimpy metrosexual Mike Lupica attacked Palin and the NRA as "phony" and "nuts" What is it with these pipsqueak leftists wanting to control our lives?

109 Barrel  Amnesty? Just this once? I hear it's all the rage...

110 100 I never want to return to the days of gruesome back-alley abortions. I am sorry, but there have been no "gruesome back-alley abortions" in my lifetime. This is a fucking myth. Some liberal document a "gruesome" abortion after 1950. Never happened.

111 OT kinda.  Well here is one LTC who will be getting non-retained.  Gets drunk Saturday night and gropes a woman.  Woman calls the cops.  Guy arrested.  And oh yes he had just been put in command of the USAF Sexual Assault Prevention and Response unit, well not any more.

http://tinyurl.com/c6k4by9

112

A classic...

 

"I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion."

 
Rep. Maxine Waters of California

113 What is it with the sports columnists screeching about gun control anyway? Who gives a fig about what non-gun-owner lived in a city all his life Mike Lupica thinks about guns anyway?

114 Anybody think the picture of the new young bush looks like nixon? All these people I know who were around when Nixon was prez are saying he has nixon's mouth and teeth. How bizarre are those comments?

115 113 What is it with the sports columnists screeching about gun control anyway? Who gives a fig about what non-gun-owner lived in a city all his life Mike Lupica thinks about guns anyway? Posted by: Jay in PA at May 06, 2013 08:41 PM (WSgyE) I took the Daily News off my bookmarks today and who cares what that short shit says or thinks

116 OT kinda. Well here is one LTC who will be getting non-retained. Gets drunk Saturday night and gropes a woman. Woman calls the cops. Guy arrested. And oh yes he had just been put in command of the USAF Sexual Assault Prevention and Response unit, well not any more. http://tinyurl.com/c6k4by9 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 06, 2013 08:40 PM (GvZxI) I saw that earlier this afternoon and knew it was going to go viral within hours.

117 92 >>>There are cases where an abortion may be necessary to save the life of a mother. Extopic (i.e. tubal) pregnancies are such an example: http://tinyurl.com/ccocgg3
Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:24 PM (XvHmy)

***

Then I stand corrected. I suspect the number requiring that is probably very small and in a sane society, would be taken care of anyway.

Posted by: LGoPs at May 06, 2013 08:28 PM (4x8W0)

A tubal pregnancy is detected very, very early. It cannot be compared to a 24-30 week pregnancy in a uterus with a digoxin injected into the heart causing fetal demise. A tubal pregnancy is often detected before the mother even knows she is pregnant. The width of the fallopian tube is around 2mm---so this pregnancy is not viable. I have not heard this argument before.

118 I lurk, sorry but this guy killed his own career.  Not even TDY and playing grab the boobehs... 

119 The answer is in your question, Ace.

120 Nevergiveup, I never read that paper anyway, but that little twat seems especially annoying. He's used his time on Sports Reporters to call for gun control back in December after Sandy Hook and I haven't watched that program since.

121 I lurk, sorry but this guy killed his own career. Not even TDY and playing grab the boobehs... Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 06, 2013 08:45 PM (GvZxI) Not disputing that at all. He's finished. It's the irony of his job title that had me think it was going all over the internet in a hurry.

122 114 Anybody think the picture of the new young bush looks like nixon? All these people I know who were around when Nixon was prez are saying he has nixon's mouth and teeth. How bizarre are those comments? Posted by: Snarky the Bear at May 06, 2013 08:42 PM (/b8+5) Yes! I thought of Nixon too, especially the shape of his face.

123 If you don't want an abortion  don't have one

------------



If you are against slavery, don't own one.

124

Yes! I thought of Nixon too, especially the shape of his face.

 

 

Guilt by resemblance?

125 A friend of mine once said a civilization who slaughtered their offspring won't survive long. My only thought was.......should it.

126 Where's the media's interest in "extremism"? Oh right, they're goddamned liars and they're not against "extremism" so long as it's extremism of the left. Posted by Ace Well written, I don't think I can add anymore to his precise and measured observations.

127 A tubal pregnancy is detected very, very early. It cannot be compared to a 24-30 week pregnancy in a uterus with a digoxin injected into the heart causing fetal demise. A tubal pregnancy is often detected before the mother even knows she is pregnant. The width of the fallopian tube is around 2mm---so this pregnancy is not viable. I have not heard this argument before. Posted by: ChristyBlinky at May 06, 2013 08:44 PM (baL2B) I'm not arguing that Gosnell-style evil is ever necessary, only pointing out that there are cases where a woman's life is endangered by a continued pregnancy.

128 Plus there is no one in the prolife movement who opposes removing the tubes during a tubal pregnancy. The goal is to save the mother, not kill the child. The law of double effect applies.

129 AtC! You lurking?

130 And TPH that is why there is the loophole called 'if the life of the mother is endangered, then the mother's life will be saved.'

It may seem you are trying to parse a split hair.

131 Posted by: Backwards Boy

The hard left are too far gone.

But I do believe that if  pro-choice people who are not on the 'activist' side actually saw what goes on in these clinics - particularly after 9 weeks  - a majority of them would have a conversion.

132 There is a big difference between the NRA and NARAL, though. True, they are both "slippery slope" lobbying organizations, afraid that any legislation, no matter how minor, cedes ground to the opponents who have a larger agenda in mind. True enough. But the opposition to abortion is strictly moral. But those who support "common sense" gun legislation claim a particular outcome (lower crime rates, less violence) which study after study has debunked. They are down to claiming that if they got all they wanted, there would be less "gun" crime. Small comfort to British women who get raped at knifepoint. But even so, there is a perfect argument that this "common sense gun legislation" won't achieve anything and might create more problems rather than fewer. Abortion opponents don't make any such claims. They want fewer abortions and make no bones about it. They see it as a moral imperative. The only argument that NARAL can make is that the number of abortions would increase.

133 PP and their activist fight sonograms for this very reason.  To hear a heartbeat and to see a growing human being inside would seriously damage their "cause".

134 ChristyBlinky #97 - I can't take the people who can't condemn partial birth abortion seriously when they pretend to care about 20 dead school children in Connecticut. I just can't.

135 123 If you don't want an abortion don't have one
------------
If you are against slavery, don't own one.
Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 08:48 PM (P6QsQ)

And if you don't like guns, then don't buy one.

136 And TPH that is why there is the loophole called 'if the life of the mother is endangered, then the mother's life will be saved.' It may seem you are trying to parse a split hair. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 06, 2013 08:52 PM (GvZxI) I'm not splitting hairs. I'm agreeing with you and the other posters such as Lauren. The mother has a right to live and a right to defend her life, and the "loophole" you mentioned is just the exercise of that right.

137 If you don't want an abortion don't have one ------------ If you are against slavery, don't own one. Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 08:48 PM (P6QsQ) And if you don't like guns, then don't buy one. Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 06, 2013 08:54 PM (D00cy) If you hate America, Don't be President

138 Oh yeah I lurk, the schadefreude from this is just epic.

I knew of another LTC in old unit.  Uber dick to all so no one under his command liked him.  And then he fell on his own penis during a TDY.  Others had seen him and a female A1C being the only ones left at a bar.  Next morning the A1C was saying how wonderful he was.  To shorten the story, he got the boot at year 19 from the military and his wife divorced him after 19 years.

139 How can you be executed without being charged with a crime, without having been found guilty by a jury of your peers, without having legal counsel, without doing anything that warrants a death sentence?  How can these innocents be sentenced to death without a blink of an eye, and that's okay, yet convicted cop killers and terrorists on death row become heroes of the left who must not be touched? 

140 Pro-aborts are doomed by science, their own god. That is not a fact to be relished, but it is a fact. Life really does begin at conception, a Catholic view I've held my entire life through slings and arrows.  A fusillade (the 70's were particularly brutal). In an abortion, somebody dies. Every time. Inescapable. Yes, it's a nut of a problem measuring one life vs. another - it's Solomonic in that regard. But, measuring a life vs. a lifestyle?  Oh, please.

141 I'm not arguing that Gosnell-style evil is ever necessary, only pointing out that there are cases where a woman's life is endangered by a continued pregnancy.

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:49 PM (XvHmy)

Ah..but you are arguing a point that is not argued in the abortion battles. I have never heard of anyone thinking a "tubal pregnancy is viable and let the mother die." A tubal pregnancy is not taking a baby early to spare the mother----which is an incredibly rare event in a hospital. As the former surgeon general was quoted above: in that case the baby is born early but TREATED as a live, human premature baby, in a hospital. Not left to die in a utility closet or a shoebox or other horrors. This is a pointless argument on your part, as no one with any medical knowledge would go there, and it is not possible as 2mm is barely a 7 week pregnancy if attached to a fallopian tube, and if the tube ruptures the mother will bleed to death. I am not going to argue apples and oranges with you.

142 The reason the "life loophole" is a loophole is that the proponents extend it to "life and health" and extend that to "mental health". And there you go.

143 I'd hit it.

144

The aspect that infuriates me is the charge by leftists that we want capital punishment, but oppose abortion, and hence are hypocritical.

 

Which would be a great point, if only a baby and a convicted adult murderer were interchangeable morally.

145 136 And some mothers would die for their children.

146

The reason the "life loophole" is a loophole is that the proponents extend it to "life and health" and extend that to "mental health".

 

And from there to "financial health." Which gets them back to where they want to go.

147 I would gladly agree to the abolishment of the death penalty if they would agree to the abolishment of abortion. 

148 If you don't want an abortion don't have one ------------ If you are against slavery, don't own one. Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 08:48 PM (P6QsQ) And if you don't like guns, then don't buy one. Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 06, 2013 08:54 PM (D00cy) And if you don't like "marraige equality"... then tough s**t, you'll be punished at school, work, and elsewhere for daring to to celebrate it!!1!

149 Posted by: Jay in PA at May 06, 2013 08:39 PM (WSgyE) Lupica spouted bullshit back in Dec. as well.

150 BOR Keep it pithy, ok fuck you abortionists

151 The difference between NRA and NARAL?  Between fighting for abortion rights and the right to bear arms?  One was placed outside of legislative infringement by a narrow majority of an overreaching court interpreting on a penumbra of a right not mentioned in the constitution.  One was enshrined in the Friggin' Bill of Rights.

152 BTW, I've always thought the Euro argument was just devastating. Even Europe can't stomach mid-term abortions, let alone late ones.

153

But I do believe that if pro-choice people who are not on the 'activist' side actually saw what goes on in these clinics - particularly after 9 weeks - a majority of them would have a conversion.

 

Agreed. Perhaps that's what KP went through when she finally got a good  idea of what went on in the Gosnell case.

 

People can be persuaded. IMO,  this is a good time to start pressing the issue,  while this Gosnell  case is going, even afterwards. Keep  it going, keep presenting the  truth of what happened. He may get off in court, but there's also the court of public opinion.

154 Anybody seen Fuchs?

155 The leftists who are adamant about access to abortion right up to the last day know something that Kirsten Powers doesn't or doesn't want to admit: how to boil a frog.

They understand that is is extremely difficult to get something you don't like banned outright but quite attainable if you limit access a little bit more every year or so until you've gotten the desired result. "We're not talking about taking away your X, just reasonable limits on private ownership of the high-powered X that no individual should ever feel a need to own."

They've been running this scam in so many areas for so long, they know exactly what it means if any proposal is made to limit something they hold near and dear. I'd expect an increasing push to allow euthanasia of children born with severe defects, just to keep the goal post safely in distant territory. Although I have no doubt a lot of lefties would be very comfortable with post-natal abortions of those they deem defective and would take up the banner quite sincerely rather than view it as a means to an end.

156 If you love the country, don't frickin' try to fundamentally change it.

157 136 The Political Hat, Hat if the baby is healthy, and viable outside the mother with some reasonable level of care it is no longer a simple matter of protecting her life she's ending the baby's. I use the word "baby" pointedly. There is no argument that a preemie at post 6 months of gestation has a high probability of survival, and as such it has transcended "not having rights." If our nation will not protect our weakest citizens we need a new nation.

158 I'm not arguing that Gosnell-style evil is ever necessary, only pointing out that there are cases where a woman's life is endangered by a continued pregnancy.

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 08:49 PM (XvHmy)


An ectopic pregnancy will not continue.  It will either be discovered and removed (been there) or the tube will burst, ending the life of the fetus and potentially the mother. 

159 150 Posted by: Jay in PA at May 06, 2013 08:39 PM (WSgyE) Lupica spouted bullshit back in Dec. as well. Posted by: RWC at May 06, 2013 09:00 PM (Wl/Ht) When has he not?

160 Ah..but you are arguing a point that is not argued in the abortion battles. Posted by: ChristyBlinky at May 06, 2013 08:57 PM (baL2B) I admit that I am not familiar with the particulars of what is and is not commonly argued in abortion battles due to the fact that I really don't like having to think about such disturbing stuff. That it is disturbing is one of the major reasons why I am against it.

161 159 Tami,

Correct there is no "undiscovered third trimester tubals."

My wife's first failed pregnancy was a tubal we suffered we knew there was something very wrong within 4 weeks and got a pretty good briefing.

162 The fact that late term abortions occur in numbers greater than the occasional extreme event is bizzare when: a. we all know what causes pregnancy b. birth control is everywhere c. pregnancy is easily detectable So why? Are we just a bunch of animals who are unable to control our urges yet unable to figure out we are pregnant, and then unable to make up our minds whether to have a baby or have the cell clump removed? I don't get it.

163 156 Epobirs,

I can show you a charming film where a nice leader deeply in bed with the media was mainstreaming the notion of post term abortive procedures....

164 So why? Are we just a bunch of animals who are unable to control our urges yet unable to figure out we are pregnant, and then unable to make up our minds whether to have a baby or have the cell clump removed? I don't get it. Posted by: Justamom of the LiB camp at May 06, 2013 09:05 PM (Sptt "Surely it won't happen to me."

165 Lupica spouted bullshit back in Dec. as well. Posted by: RWC at May 06, 2013 09:00 PM (Wl/Ht) When has he not? Posted by: AmishDude at May 06, 2013 09:03 PM (T0NGe) All i know of him is the NRA rants. I guess he is a dumbass all the time. Speaking of dumbass sprts talkers, wheremthe hell is Olberdouche nowadays?

166 I know I've said this many times before, but I'll repeat it, as it is the dominant thought in my mind whenever the issue of abortion comes up: does Barack the Merciful ever reflect on the (imputed) fact that, had abortion been legal in 1960/1, he'd have ended his days in a metal pail on some physician's floor?

167 147 Jay Guevera,

properly translated from the liberalese it is "for whatever fucking reason the bitch wants the baby dead asshole"

and I'm sorry that standard is not good enough if the little darlings can go get plan B w/out a parent's input they sure as fuck can get a 1st tri abortion as well.

168
btw, don't give to Komen, there are other breast cancer groups actually using the money to do research and not fund planned parenthood.

169

Are we just a bunch of animals who are unable to control our urges yet unable to figure out we are pregnant, and then unable to make up our minds whether to have a baby or have the cell clump removed?

 

In some cases, apparently yes, for certain values of "we."

170 The Political Hat, Hat if the baby is healthy, and viable outside the mother with some reasonable level of care it is no longer a simple matter of protecting her life she's ending the baby's. I use the word "baby" pointedly. There is no argument that a preemie at post 6 months of gestation has a high probability of survival, and as such it has transcended "not having rights." If our nation will not protect our weakest citizens we need a new nation. Posted by: sven10077 at May 06, 2013 09:02 PM (LRFds) I am in full agreement with you. I'm afraid that I have been misconstrued. I apologize for that. An ectopic pregnancy will not continue. It will either be discovered and removed (been there) or the tube will burst, ending the life of the fetus and potentially the mother. Posted by: Tami at May 06, 2013 09:03 PM (X6akg) That's all I was trying to say. If I gave a different impression, then my bad for mispeaking.

171
I admit that I am not familiar with the particulars of what is and is not commonly argued in abortion battles due to the fact that I really don't like having to think about such disturbing stuff.

That it is disturbing is one of the major reasons why I am against it.

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 09:04 PM (XvHmy)

Ok. Trying not to insult you: but look up how large a uterus is in cm, and how large it can accommodate a growing baby, vs a (at the widest diameter) a 2mm fallopian tube. I am only asking you to get your facts straight, as this is not a valid argument on the incredibly rare "death of the mother" issue in the abortion pro or con.

172 "the decision whether or not to kill an already-born baby was between the mother and her doctor"

The decision whether or not to purchase African slaves is between the plantation owner and his supplier. Because Jefferson Davis fought for a white man's right to choose whether or not a black man is a human being.

173

>>>I know I've said this many times before, but I'll repeat it, as it is the dominant thought in my mind whenever the issue of abortion comes up: does Barack the Merciful ever reflect on the (imputed) fact that, had abortion been legal in 1960/1, he'd have ended his days in a metal pail on some physician's floor?

 

***

 

Oh, were it so. WERE. IT. SO.

174 Correct there is no "undiscovered third trimester tubals."

My wife's first failed pregnancy was a tubal we suffered we knew there was something very wrong within 4 weeks and got a pretty good briefing.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 06, 2013 09:05 PM (LRFds)

I knew I was pregnant and was at my first prenatal doctor's visit when I got what I thought was just a really severe gas pain in the waiting room.  While talking with the nurse, she said, 'Do you feel ok? You've gone completely pale...lay down.  I'm going to go get the doctor.'  They did an internal ultrasound and discovered there was nothing in my uterus.  Reran a pregnancy test which came up positive.  I went straight to the hospital and had surgery the next morning. 

175 171 The Political Hat,

Hat I bear you no deep grief.

The net is at the best of times a potnetially inelegant medium, add in the ill ease with this topic and misunderstandings can occur my friend.

Speak your mind you're amongst friends.

176

Speaking of dumbass sprts talkers, wheremthe hell is Olberdouche nowadays?

 

Still torturing me  with taco dinner  farts  in the bathtub.

 

Thanks for asking.

177 Shrug.   It would be a lot easier to convince LIVs that late term abortion is nasty and we should be like Europe than to get "life begins at conception" IMO.    *I think* plan B is 100% OK legally and morally (although I'm opposed to Plan B OTC to young dumb kids and to forcing ie the Catholic church to give it out if they have moral qualms with it) 

I think RU-486 or whatever equivalents there are now that will chemically abort at 4-6 weeks should also be legal--  and I think that early surgical abortion is acceptable for now to soothe the "christian theocracy" fears of LIVs who have taught to fear that imaginary bogey man. 

  Late term abortions -- no, no and hell no. -- and I suspect there are some dumb young women who think "BC pills are bad for me based on the lawsuits and the 'don't take if you smoke etc' and multiple abortions are also bad for me, so if I get pregnant its better to wait as long as I can before having an abortion." 

 So I really would like to have "We have to be like Europe on this one" as the law  --- and leave churches and parents to make the case that "legal does not mean moral" to their congregants and children as they wish.    

178 Aborting a baby past the age of viability is not merely deciding to you don't want a child, as there are laws that let a mother surrender a baby without question or liability.  It is not deciding "I don't want to raise a child."  It is deciding "This child must not live."

179 To make the "life of the mother" argument even stickier, it's worth pointing out that "ectopic" does not always mean "tubal". Occasionally, a baby who has implanted somewhere besides the tube, in the abdominal cavity itself, can grow well past the size of viability, and a precious few of these babies have been born alive by crazy intense surgery. But yeah, the sort of yank-it-through abortion that libs defend is never about the life of the mother. If a woman comes in with full-blown eclampsia, blood pressure so high her kidneys have shut down, her life depending on becoming un-pregnant NOW she gets an emergency CS. Happened to my own mother. A decent OB saved her life without ending my sister's.

180 175 Tami,

Happened in our case as well.

I think I aged a decade in about 36 hours.

181

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 07:55 PM (XvHmy)

 

OMG, those articles made me physically ill, and embarrassed  and ashamed for  my fellow human beings. I wish I hadn't read  either one of them, but I guess it helps me understand why they're so militant about it.

182 That's all I was trying to say. If I gave a different impression, then my bad for mispeaking.

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 06, 2013 09:09 PM (XvHmy)

Yeah, I think you just picked the wrong 'life of the mother' example.

183 I love you guys who say mothers are bound to die for their children sans abortion. You swing an appeal to the clinical, advanced nature of modern abortion. It can save a woman from the medieval hell of natural childbirth! Hasn't progress been made on the other side of the coin? Very few women die in childbirth these days. The primary culprit is ectopic pregnancies, which is quite outside the bounds of your typical abortionist's practice anyway. Truth is, there's very little excuse for abortion on medical grounds. It's all based on socio-political grounds, almost exclusively.

184

128 Plus there is no one in the prolife movement who opposes removing the tubes during a tubal pregnancy. The goal is to save the mother, not kill the child. The law of double effect applies.

---

Even the Catholic Church is on board with that. This is what the New Catholic Encyclopedia has to say:

“What is particularly noted in all cases of the discovery of a tubal pregnancy is that one is never permitted to remove or destroy the human fetus directly. The only legitimate surgical approach to any tubal pregnancy is based on the necessity of excising all or part of a seriously damaged fallopian tube in those circumstances in which the danger to the mother is already imminent and the chance for fetal survival is negligible.” (Vol. 5, pg. 8

The procedure in this case is not an abortion.

185 Although I have no doubt a lot of lefties would be very comfortable with post-natal abortions of those they deem defective and would take up the banner quite sincerely rather than view it as a means to an end.

Comfortable to the point they'd "abort" most of us, even though we've been living outside the womb for quite some time now. 


This is a fucking myth. Some liberal document a "gruesome" abortion after 1950.

Uhhh...not a liberal, but I expect the "back alley" abortions they whine about were no less unsanitary than Gosnell's place.

186 158 If our nation will not protect our weakest citizens we need a new nation. Posted by: sven10077 at May 06, 2013 09:02 PM (LRFds) I totally agree, just wait until Barry care is going full bore, look out senior citizens , your days are numbered, much like the innocent human life in the womb

187 I'm sorry, Tami.  That must have been terrible for you.

188 135 123 If you don't want an abortion don't have one ------------ If you are against slavery, don't own one. Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 08:48 PM (P6QsQ) And if you don't like guns, then don't buy one. If you don't like anal, tough shit bitch, bend over.

189 Ok. Trying not to insult you: but look up how large a uterus is in cm, and how large it can accommodate a growing baby, vs a (at the widest diameter) a 2mm fallopian tube. I am only asking you to get your facts straight, as this is not a valid argument on the incredibly rare "death of the mother" issue in the abortion pro or con. Posted by: ChristyBlinky at May 06, 2013 09:09 PM (baL2B) All I was doing was pointing out that occurrences of situations like ecoptic pregnancies can occur. I wasn't trying to compare it with anything else or justify hoovering out a woman's uterus.

190 3 in 10 American women have murdered their own children. 30% of American women. That's a fact. So keep talking about how the miniscule ectopic and tubal problem justify the whole of that rot. Keep on talking!

191 I think I aged a decade in about 36 hours.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 06, 2013 09:11 PM (LRFds)

My poor husband was in Canada on a business trip.  I had to call him and tell him what was going on.  I was doing ok until I heard his voice, then I just burst out crying in the ER. 

Add to this that my mom and sister were visiting and at home with our 4 year old son and our newly adopted daughter.  I hadn't even told either one of them I was pregnant.  Oy....that was a weird phone call. 

And my poor son had pitched a fit when I was leaving for the doctor's appt.  I promised him I'd be right back.   3 days later I was.

192 Sven and Tami...I am so sorry for what you went through. And, Political Hat, I am sorry if I tried to educate you with my sledgehammer.

193 Political Hat - I got what you were trying to say from the get-go,  no worries.

194  reasonable and sincere people can disagree about when meaningful life begins.

Sorry, but i'll never understand why it's "reasonable" to pretend that life doesn't begin as soon as an egg is fertilized and cells start dividing, if that's not life then what is it? And how is life at that stage any less meaningful than life at any other stage? It doesn't matter if your life is ended in it's first ten seconds or when you're 90 years old, dead is dead and last i checked that one life is all you have so every second of it is pretty dam meaningful.

195 188 I'm sorry, Tami. That must have been terrible for you.

Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 09:13 PM (P6QsQ)

Awww....thanks mama....it was a bit frightening. 

196 192 Tami,

You have my deepest sympathy I would not deign to imagine I understand a 1/5th of the pain and emotional hurt facing that is for the woman.  I know that it closed off a part of the wife and I for a half decade that enabled the greatest risk to our marriage we endured.  Forgive me that I don't recall if you've been blessed post the trauma with children but I pray God it is so and if not it may well be if it is your desire.

Thanks for sharing.

197 The main thing would be no woman ever *chooses* an ectopic pregnancy. They just happen.

Although now that I've typed that, there's probably some Ivy League art student collaborating with a biomed student on just that for a senior project.

198 Abortion is exactly analogous to gun control in terms of the place the issue holds within the ideologies of the parties. Gun rights are a foundational right for conservatives reflecting that ultimately each individual is fundamentally responsible for himself esp. at the basic level of protecting his life and the life of his family. The left knows how foundational this is and so legislates at the edges as a means of chipping away at and undermining the right. Abortion access is a foundational right for the feminist left which believes that a woman must be able to act exactly as a man, esp. in matters of sexual promiscuity, and suffer no consequences for it. Without full access to abortion at any level the feminists must admit that women and men are different, that sex affects them differently and there are sound rational bases for societal and legislative recognition of gender differences. The feminist left sees killing the unborn baby as a kind of self-defense, justifiable homicide to protect the absolute equality of the woman.

199 187 Minsantrhopic Humanitarian,

It's coming....Barky wants to control cost by controlling cessation dates as much as possible.

200 FWIW, I got to use the "If it's not really a baby, then you're not really pregnant"  argument in the comments of another site today.

201 193 Christy Blinky,

Wife bore the physical pain, and thanks for the thought.

She lurks here quite passionately and it means a lot.

202

All those medical shows on TV, infant skull surgery and such. I leave the room when my wife puts them on. But jeez I wash there was one showing what happens in a late term abortion.

I just cannot figure out why I've never seen one...

203
let's not quibble about when life begins

or who kilt who

204 199 Elizabethe,

Yup I suspect there's something to your posit.

God help us.

205 Oh if you want my to go ballistic on you, give me the liberal tripe "God aborts almost one in five of every child conceived" (or the like) God kills us all in time; You've just made an argument why that makes it OK for someone to kill YOU right now. 

Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at May 06, 2013 08:23 PM (0q2P7)


Unintentional implication by the liberal tripe.  "I am an equal to God, why can't I abort whomever I want?"  

206 ((((((((Tami))))))))) ((((((((Sven))))))))) Hug.

207 @198...Many mothers with tubal ectopic pregnancies are not aware they are even pregnant. Some are elated they are pregnant and then they have what Tami and Sven describe as a very painful and dangerous event with surgery. I have not experienced this but know friends who grieve as it is a miscarriage and the loss of a baby. Again, I am so sorry to read what people go through with their children. I was one of the lucky ones. I am sure this is painful for you to remember and I am sorry this happened to you.

208 The feminist left sees killing the unborn baby as a kind of self-defense, justifiable homicide to protect the absolute equality of the woman.
---------------------------



The logical flow of that would be to adjudicate each case then and have a jury render its verdict as to whether or not it is indeed justifiable homicide or merely homicide.  In other words, provide evidence that the child threatened you in some tangible way . 

209 206 Conservative Monster,

Dear lord allow me to resist the temptation to post on that particular logic exercise in the mood I've been is since the Gosnell case has neared fruition.

210 Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at May 06, 2013 09:21 PM (LRFds) Sven I used to be a feminist, I've taught gender studies classes. I know prominent feminist scholars who understand and respect the pro life position. This is the argument.

211 The trick was always when did "meaningful" life begin. For the ancient Roman a child had no value until he could speak. Then, the became "viable". So it was open season on killing kids long after birth. That makes sense, in abortionist thinking. They did not have the means to make the killing so neat and clinical. If you wanted to kill your infant, you could. No problem. Hardly anybody did, because that meant you had to raise your hand and bring it down on your own flesh and blood.

Fast forward till today. The situation is worse. Killing your kid is but a "medical procedure", and one couched in the wrappings of empowerment, rights, and individual choice. Rawr!

The one difference, the only difference, is the ease with which you can do it. Abortion today is medical. Back then, it was delivering a fatal blow, or tossing the unwanted kid in a river (as happened two weeks ago around here). In the end, exact same result.

212 What a poverty of soul it is that someone must die so that I might have a nicer life.

213

Unintentional implication by the liberal tripe. "I am an equal to God, why can't I abort whomever I want?"

 

I'd counter that that is, in no way, unintentional.

 

As  Toby mentioned upthread, the disease of our time is Hubris.

214 Meanwhile that paragon of womyn's rights, Sen Menendez [D-Hooker] has introduced a bill to arm the Syrian rebels.

http://tinyurl.com/cn3rxxu

215 Tami and Sven, My sympathies to you both, and your spouses. I look forward to the day Christ returns and death is no more, so that no one else may ever suffer as you have. I've decided i'm going to post this on every thread dealing with the abortion topic: I work for a crisis pregnancy center (i do data entry). Over 80% of our clients who are considering an abortion decide to carry their babies to term after seeing an ultrasound. You want to destroy the "clump of cells" lie? Show them video evidence of a living child. There is very likely a crisis pregnancy center near you. If this issue matters to you, find one and get involved. Donate, volunteer, whatever you can. If you decide to volunteer, they'll train you. A good place to start to find a crisis pregnancy center near you: optionline.org

216 OT- I listened to Malkin today on Hannity. I really don't know of anyone who so forthrightly articulates the case against the Left. Oh, for a double handful of Senators and Congressmen who were the same.

217 mama winger, they trade a future for immediate results.  For the LIV its almost akin to deciding between Burger King or a steak house.  They vote for Burger King because its quicker gratification.

218 Malkin rocks it. Strong woman. Warrior woman. From such a frail frame, too. She just steps ups and destroys her enemies. Doesn't care a whit.

219

Regarding all those "gruesome" back ally abortions abortion advocates are always talking about: My mother worked as an ER nurse in a South Florida hospital in the years before and after Roe.  Years later I asked her how many women she'd seen in the ER with botched abortions prior to Roe.  Her answer: "none", which is more than the ER nurses near Gosnell's clinic can say.   

 

 

And for those who don't know, Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of NARAL, admitted decades ago that the numbers they gave the press about illegal abortions and resulting fatalities were completely made up.  Anyone can probably find his book on Amazon.  He quit doing abortions when he watched a sonogram of a baby he was aborting. 

 

220 Posted by: mama winger, lemur-free at May 06, 2013 09:23 PM (P6QsQ) No, not really, Because the harm the baby does is not necessarily to the individual woman with the baby, it's to the abstract utopia in which women are equal in all ways to men. As all leftist believe, you have to be willing to kill a few million people on order to have your ideological lefty utopia.

221 195 I have never cared for the cluster of cells argument......Are we not all a cluster of cells. Sure we value certain clusters over others. A tree, cat, dog, everything that lives, but when it comes to humans: who the fuck are we to get to decide which ones get to survive. I know I would not want my fate decided by someone who didn't see me as human.

222 212 Cowboy,

There's a line in I, Claudius Where Livia laments Claudius not being exposed to Augustus and he says, "we've not done that for ages dear."

or somesuch....

http://youtu.be/_cnk5JJRxqg

Around I think Minute 13 in the piece there

223 Oh, for a double handful of Senators and Congressmen who were the same. Posted by: Mike Hammer at May 06, 2013 09:29 PM (aDwsi) Well, there's Cruz and ...... And that other guy from that one state...and... Cruz....

224 Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 06, 2013 09:27 PM (lpR33) This.

225 Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 06, 2013 09:27 PM (lpR33)


This.

Posted by: Elizabethe on the phone at May 06, 2013 09:36 PM (qPCAa)

-------------

Yes indeed.

226 why do doctors do this, I wonder? they most certainly know what they're doing. I'd bet they have PAs do the bulk of them if possible

227 BUZZER! TWO HOUR STALE ALERT!!!

228 Occam's Safety razor,

quite well said....

Gosnell changed something in me and I do believe I'd cheer if someone made Obama swallow teeth the next time he goes into "I uh just er want to ah protect the weakest" mode

229 pIs it a standard feature of NBA games for players to engage in any forms of sex ? I can understand the referees do all the screwing in NFL games.

230 228 why do doctors do this, I wonder?

they most certainly know what they're doing. I'd bet they have PAs do the bulk of them if possible

Posted by: BlackOrchid at May 06, 2013 09:38 PM (2up3Q)

I just don't know how people can do that day, after day, after day....and it has no effect on them.  How?  How black is their soul?

231 Sven I used to be a feminist, I've taught gender studies classes. Does. Not. Compute. Logic error. Logic error. Just curious....what changed you?

232 The clump of cells argument is to keep things abstract enough for a woman to not think she is killing another human being.

All the new technology that allows doctors and parents to see into the womb in real time destroy that argument.

233 I'd counter that that is, in no way, unintentional. 

As Toby mentioned upthread, the disease of our time is Hubris. 

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 06, 2013 09:26 PM (+z4pE)


Unintentional in that if you actually tried to nail them on the claim, they would evade rather than proudly claim the position - because it is absurd. 

It can't stand up to rational thought - so it is hidden away and snuck in under the radar.   

234 Hey Tami, so sorry about your loss, big hug

235 The disease of our time is The Belief that We Control. everything. our bodies, our fates, other people, our babies, the weather, etc it's because of Hubris, but the "life is a construct we control" thing is worse. yes I hated The Secret.

236
#216 I work for a crisis pregnancy center (i do data entry). Over 80% of our clients who are considering an abortion decide to carry their babies to term after seeing an ultrasound. You want to destroy the "clump of cells" lie? Show them video evidence of a living child.


Which is the very reason pro-abortion fans do not want the woman to have an ultrasound, much less be required to witness it through state law. Thank you for all you do.

237 I really can't get worked up over a woman seeking a back-alley abortion. She's woman desperately seeking to murder her child. How in the world such a person ever became a sympathetic figure is beyond me, and, frankly, beyond sense. Sympathy for a woman who has had or is seeking an abortion arrives in one way: she knows not what she is doing. Typically, she is young, impressionable, highly emotional, and really in a hard bind. It disgusts me to the core that our social solution is this: "Just kill that baby." I.N.C.R.E.D.I.B.L.E.

But that's liberal justice for ya.

238

The clump of cells argument is to keep things abstract enough for a woman to not think she is killing another human being.

 

Using an  admittedly reduced   form of that argument, those who   claim that   should be just fine without their brain or their heart if they were removed,  shouldn't they?

 

After all, it's just a clump of  cells...

239 Thanks everyone....I do appreciate your sympathies.  But God gave me two great children, one who grew under my heart, my son....and one that didn't grow under my heart but in it, my daughter. 

240 ONT is up. 

241 C'mon Bulls!

242 Sven, Thanks. I understand your frustrations with our President, and i certainly don't believe that he really seeks to protect the least among us. I share the impulse to cheer when someone who supports the monstrous policies our President does (BAIPA, for example) suffers, but Christ calls those who follow Him to a higher--and harder--way: to love our enemies, and to pray for those who persecute us.

243 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 06, 2013 09:39 PM (1XrHv) God. Lol! No seriously, it was this very issue. I realized that a fetus is a baby, that there's no justification for killing it and then the entire liberal worldview in my head collapsed and I became a hardcore conservative. I wish the anti-social con people would realize just how foundational an issue gender equality and abortion access rights is to the entire lefty ideology. Now, come to the ONT, I'm making drinks.

244 244 I meant the President's opposition to the BAIPA...

245 >>>The disease of our time is The Belief that We Control.

everything. our bodies, our fates, other people, our babies, the weather, etc

it's because of Hubris, but the "life is a construct we control" thing is worse.


Beautifully put. And we are willing to kill for our illusion of control.

246 Fuck Kristen powers what good is this shit? Wow omg Obama let those people die in Libya, but I'm still voting straight D! Partial birth abortion is murder...but I'll still vote for politicians who will continue it! That is the modern day democrat voter. Wonder why they talk about bullshit like binders full of women, big bird, and gay people? It's cause if they honestly examined their beliefs they would kill themselves

247 167 I know I've said this many times before, but I'll repeat it, as it is the dominant thought in my mind whenever the issue of abortion comes up: does Barack the Merciful ever reflect on the (imputed) fact that, had abortion been legal in 1960/1, he'd have ended his days in a metal pail on some physician's floor? Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 06, 2013 09:07 PM (IDSI7) Stop pointing out the positives of abortion!

248 Very late to this post, but I wanted to thank Ace for writing this. Even though you're not a prolifer, I appreciate that HQ has been covering Gosnell/abortion.

249 That is the modern day democrat voter. Wonder why they talk about bullshit like binders full of women, big bird, and gay people? It's cause if they honestly examined their beliefs they would kill themselves Posted by: Mr Pink at May 06, 2013 09:50 PM (00z4x) Cause that's who is putting food in her fridge and a roof over her head. Follow the money.

250 "meaningful life?"   Lot of devil in the adjective.

251 "She then analogizes NARAL to the NRA" The comparison is a mirage and dangerous. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is means to enjoy the right of self defense, which is an inalienable and preexisting right from the Creator. A firearm is but one of a number of means by which this right is exercised. The NRA is but one of several organizations devoted to protecting that right. The "right" for a woman to abort a pregnancy must by its very nature deny the right to life to the baby being aborted. It is a synthetic right that exists only because government states that it exists, much like when government declares a corporation is a person. Moreover, the right to abort is based on some of the same rights that were used in Scott v Sanford (1857) to justify slavery, another right that only comes by destroying the rights of another human being. So, while NARAL and NRA may appear to be similar in many respects, their foundations are as different as night and day.