1 I don't get that, either.  Forget the delay - in implementation and mandates.  If this is bad as it's supposed to be, let America know it... before the 2014 elections.

2 What a fucking idiot Rubio is.

We OFFERED to delay Obamacare rollout.. we actually INSISTED on it as a demand.

The Dems and Obama specifically rejected it.

Fuck 'em.  They OWN it.

3 I vote that they "fix" it the same way they  fix dogs at the vet.

4 Moron.

5 And seriously, enough with Rubio already. 

6 Why does grilled cheese and tomato soup go so well together?

Also, RINO!

7 Just change your name to Marco McCain, already, asshole.

8 The Republicans should just hammer the repeal drum and then offer their own plan. Let the current disaster keep rolling until the Democrats start peeling off.

9 The Florida senator discussed the plan Tuesday morning in an interview with Fox News.


Did someone say something?  Or was that just the wind blowing?

10 Fuck Marco Rubio. Let the people get a good taste of this shit sandwich before they go to the polls in 2014. Letting the sheeple know just how little the Democrat party and their healthcare bill care about them is the only cure here. There is not one Republican vote for the AHCA, and the GOP needs to sit back and let the suck flow.

11 I just want to see impeachment and resignations from both sides.

I know, I might as well wish for healthcare.gov to work. What a cluster.

Whose fault is all of this? Ours

12 I vote that they "fix" it the same way they fix dogs at the vet.>>

Cut it's balls off or the Old Yeller fix?

13 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer".
..........
This is the wrong approach.

You now say:

We wanted to delay Obamacre.  the Dems rejected it.  Obama refused to even talk about it.

We shut down the government to force shutting it down.  The Dems wouldn't budge.

You say that every day until the elections next year.  Every. Day.

14 Delaying ObamaCare is all extreme and stuff.  It's politically impossible, I'm told.

It most certainly shouldn't be tied to 'fixing' the website, because when the website is fixed that declares that ObamaCare is fixed (which the GOP is inching toward that position anyway).

15 If there's an alternative that will damage the GOP, do no good for the country, and benefit the Democrats, that's the one the GOP will choose. It's like a unidirectional flow chart.

16 You say that every day until the elections next year. Every. Day.


Two Words: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell.

17 That's just basic politics. You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". Why not? You are never going to win those votes anyway. 8 yr old's stupidity in an adult SHOULD be painful. As painful as possible. Hopefully they will learn from it.

18 Hey, I'm willing to throw them an anchor.

I'm a giver.

19 Mitch McConnell, lousy corrupt hack.

It is despicable that the GOP has him in a position of power.

20 Here's another thing..  Saying you can "fix" Obamacare admits there is some good in it.

You give voters one choice:  If you want to get rid of Obamacare, elect Republicans.  We can do nothing until we get back into power.

21 Whose fault is all of this? Ours

Truth.

22 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this.

23 Marco RINO Rubio has been dead to me since he jumped on the amnesty bus.  He can kiss my ass. He represents everything that is wrong with the Republican Party.

24

Repeal and replace with free markets, make personal health insurance like car insurance (portable across  state lines), clamp down mercilessly on frivolous lawsuits and then create some  sort of mechanism to accommodate the high-risk pool. Make the laws clear so   everyone knows what the rules are and enforce them vigorously. (This'd  also reduce the cost of compliance).

 

This  should not be construed as giving insurance companies carte blanche to do as they wish,   either.  There's no way I want any insurance companies writing any legislation.

 

 

Unleash  common  sense, reality-based     capitalism and watch what happens.

25 The truth of the matter is that the Republican party LOVES Obamacare. They arent going to get rid of it anymore than the Dems are. Their "opposition" isn't sincere, just a tactic for political gain.

26 Ever notice that every time McCain and Schumer wiggle their fingers, Rubio's lips move?

27

This was always the problem with the "delay" strategy. Obama needs a delay. Why in the world would you give him what he needs?

 

wouldnt a delay mean that the healthy people would stay away because they dont need insurance, while the sick and expensive sign up? how can this be good for the system? i really loath rubeo, but im not seeing him doing obummer any favors here, drew.

28

Keep an eye on the GOP as talk will increasingly be about "fixing" ObamaCare. The question is, will they "fix" it within the current framework of the ACA or demand that the "fix" be repeal and replace?

 

Drew, you know the answer to this one. Fast-forward 8 years (I would say longer, but the collapse of the whole of the welfare state is only 10 years out). El PRL will be clamoring to add vision and dental to PlaceboCare.

 

Doubt me? Look no further than Medicare Part D.

29 There's no winning this fight. I hope I'm wrong, but there is no way to square the circle. Republicans would have to propose some kind of alternative healthcare entitlement, and what kind of a plan is that? In the end the Math will come for us all.

30 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this.

Almost the entire GOP Senate demanded it too, said a delay was reich-wing extremism and that the TEA party was purely evil.

31 I really don't like those three words "repeal and replace".  It's a lousy message, congress can't be trusted to design a replacement.  Repeal is the only word you need. 

32 It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

33 My Obamacare website isn't working. Let's get a cell phone company on this problem stat.

34 Shouldn't a party that constantly shoots themselves in the dick sooner or later run out of dick ? I think the nicklefuckers must be related to starfish.

35 Of course. Why do I get the sense that within a week the screw up of Obamacare will rest firmly at the GOPs feet. I mean I know some in the media are already writing stories intimating it is all the GOPs fault, but now I sense that our representatives are willing to put on that yoke and run with it.

36 and Rubio, McCain, McConnell, wherever you are out there ....

FUCK YOU TOO!!

37

Cut it's balls off or the Old Yeller fix?

 

Well, considering what  we're  dealing with, maybe the Old  Yeller fix   would be better.

38 wouldnt a delay mean that the healthy people would stay away because they dont need insurance, while the sick and expensive sign up? how can this be good for the system? i really loath rubeo, but im not seeing him doing obummer any favors here, drew. With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich.

39 Rubio turned Rovian in what seems to be record time. Probably better than Crist, but that ain't saying anything.

By the by, got an email from the Hillary! for Presnident people. Next week is Hillary!s birthday, so let's all practice:

"Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
I hope it's your last one
Happy birthday to you"

40 Marco's sekrit skeletons in his closet must be the dangling horse head he wakes up to each morning. Something changed him...or, he lied to us from the start. Either way, I think he will not be re-elected due to his crossing the aisle and amnesty drum. Fool me once...

41 When do the GOP Establishment shills come on to tell us that Rubio is a fuckin' genius?

42

2 -

 

No, Jerry. 

 

The fact that you don't want them to  does not change the fact that Republicans are ALREADY part owners of Obamacare.  Rubio is indeed an idiot, but he also realizes if they don't fix this, it will be hung  around his neck as much as it will the Dems.

 

You can rail against it, gnash your teeth all you want.  Doesn't change reality. 

 

You  bought Obamacare.  You own it.  Enjoy! 

43 32 It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Posted by: Guy trying to buy Healthinsurance at Healthcare . gov... at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB)

Pick up hammer of smiting.

44 Whose fault is all of this? Ours

Posted by: JB

You're a Democrat?

45 The GOP obviously doesn't really oppose Ogabecare like the mules opposed Iraq....

good to know

46 I'll just reiterate Iowahawk's twitter comment about Washington, D.C.: "Washington is a horde of attacking zombies. Republicans are just the slow-moving ones."

47 I think Rubio is trying to be strategic.  He knows there no chance in hell this will work, and is just grinding the point about the individual mandate delay into everyone's minds.  That the WH will never go for it makes them look like unreasonable jackholes. 

I think that's the point Rubio's trying to make.


Plus....if by any chance this DOES happen, the money that was supposed to come in with the mandates to prop up o-care never happens which causes the whole thing to collapse. 

Either way, I think we have the advantage.

48

Rubio   wants to reward the democrats who just humiliated him    by giving them the one thing they need to prevent a    debacle next    November.   Man, this guy is a brilliant strategist.

49 I thought the posts during Ace's vacation were supposed to be light?

50 I see Rubio's strategy as sound. After all, any delay that Obama wants, Obama will get, simply because he can. This way Obama is forced to either sign legislation admitting the huge cock-up Obamacare is (which will be especially groovy to see), or veto it and come across as the selfish self-centered child that he is. Rubio is dong nothing more than proposing to discomfit Obama and the Dems in Congress. I hope he doesn't over reach on this as it has the potential of putting them all in a bind.

51 I've introduced legislation to make the FEMA camps a much more enjoyable experience!

52

ahhh

 

the ole "reach around"

53 "How are you going to go after people next year ... if the thing you're forcing them to buy isn't available to buy?" he asked And his solution to this is to fix it so you CAN force them to buy? That speaks volumes about Marco Rubio.

54 With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (h1D+w)

 

dont underestimate the power of free shit. there are still subsidies to be had for high cost, ill people.

55

Dondi betrayed me.

 

I will not forget that.

56 I thought the posts during Ace's vacation were supposed to be light? Nope. Just non-controversial.

57 Of course. Why do I get the sense that within a week the screw up of Obamacare will rest firmly at the GOPs feet. I mean I know some in the media are already writing stories intimating it is all the GOPs fault, but now I sense that our representatives are willing to put on that yoke and run with it. Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle ---------------- Well..., sure. I mean, it's like the debt, because Republicans.

58 Marco RINO Rubio has been dead to me since he jumped on the amnesty bus. He can kiss my ass. He represents everything that is wrong with the Republican Party.

 

Posted by: Vic at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (zZbNF)

 

And Vic should know.  After all, if it wasn't for him, ol' Honest Abe would still be known as "Hard Drinkin' Lincoln."

59 I think Rubio is trying to be strategic. He knows there no chance in hell this will work, and is just grinding the point about the individual mandate delay into everyone's minds. That the WH will never go for it makes them look like unreasonable jackholes. Unless you give them an out by offering to wear this albatross...

60 Democrats have demographics and the media to win elections.  Republicans have only reality.

If people vote for this shit...(and they did, by re-electing Obama), then the only way to get them to learn is crash and burn.

Don't delay Obamacare.  Let it charge, full steam ahead.

61 How much is the "fix" to something that was supposed to be working -- after 3 years and 7x the original budget spent -- costing taxpayers?
That point isn't being brought up enough IMO. Just because Bernanke still has checks doesn't mean there is money in the account.  

62

Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something?

 

There's got to be more to this than meets the eye.

63 the genius of Obamacare is that requires young people to choose to forego the equivalent of a new care to pay for the sick and the old. it's foolproof.

64 13: Agree, except we didn't shut down the government. The republicans wanted to negotiate with the dems over Obamacare, including specifically a delay of the individual mandate. Because Reid and Obama refused to even talk about it, the government was shut down. Hopefully, more people will get it now. Senator Rubio - please do not offer another escape hatch to the dems on this.

65 Lemme guess, Rubio's bill is co-sponsored by Jeff Flake, Juan McCain and Pretty Lindsey Graham?

66

If people vote for this shit...(and they did, by re-electing Obama), then the only way to get them to learn is crash and burn.

 

The last one   was stolen.

67 "22 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this.

Posted by: blaster at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (4+AaH)"

That is right.  Republicans were even willing to take the politically unpopular act of letting Obama shut down the government in order to delay Obamacare but Obama refused to negotiate.

It is really a shame that Obama never had any executive experience before he became President.  He might have learned better how to negotiate.  Being in charge is different than being a Community Organizer.  It requires a different set of skills which President Obama is having to learn on the job.  But he's doing the best that he can, bless his heart.

Stuff you can say to your relatives at Thanksgiving.

68

People voted for these assholes, so let them get it good and hard. Reminds me of a classic.

 

Captain: You gonna get used to wearing them chains after a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listening to them clinking, 'cause they gonna remind you what I been saying for your own good.

 

Luke: I wish you'd stop being so good to me, Cap'n.

 

Captain: Don't you ever talk that way to me. (pause, then hitting him) NEVER! NEVER! (Luke rolls down hill; to other prisoners)

 

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

 

 

 

 

 

69 Don't delay, keep expectations cranked way up so they keep throwing more and more programmers at the problem. Because they (the Democrats as project managers) are SO smart.

70 Once again, a RINO snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. Somebody remind me again why I'm supposed to back this party.

71 "How are you going to go after people next year ... if the thing you're forcing them to buy isn't available to buy?" he asked, saying the site is "not working."

... this hasn't been a problem for the EPA.

Federal regulations can be maddening, but none more so than a current one that demands oil refiners use millions of gallons of a substance, cellulosic ethanol, that does not exist.

"As ludicrous as that sounds, it's fact," says Charles Drevna, who represents refiners. "If it weren't so frustrating and infuriating, it would be comical."

And Tom Pyle of the Institute of Energy Research says, "the cellulosic biofuel program is the embodiment of government gone wild."

72 Offer a delay in the mandate.

But make it's reinstatement conditional on a yes vote from both Houses of Congress.

73 This is just absurd. You can't fix a ship that is listing 40 degrees to port, on fire, with the cpatain practicing his wedge shots. President Awesome and his Enlightened Clown Posse own this thing, lock, stock and barrel. Let them deal with it. And Sen. Rubio--yeah, you kinda blew it there rubbing elbows with the gargoyle from New York. Sit down. You're done.

74 62
Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something?

There's got to be more to this than meets the eye. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM

No, Rubio smashed through the whole kennel with a bus

75 Can Rubio be this stupid? I don't think so. The only other possibility is he's playing for the other side.

76 You can't fix stupid.

77 *** You have died ***

Would you like to start over, restore a saved position or end this session of Zork? (Type RESTART, RESTORE or QUIT)

 

/Restore

 

I don't understand that

 

/Restart

 

I don't understand that

 

/Quit

 

Be advised that under Federal Law, not having Health insurance will lead to fines and other penalties.  Thankyou; HHS

78 I'm torn between letting it run in full and letting it implode on it's own, HOWEVER, with most Federal Programs if we don't get rid of it ASAP we will be stuck with it for ever. Damned of we and Damned if we don't.

79

Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something?

 

There's got to be more to this than meets the eye.

 

Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (u2a4R)

 

That was his dog?  I thought that was his cat.

 

Here, let me back up and run it over agai...er...check to see what it is.

80 But make it's reinstatement conditional on a yes vote from both Houses of Congress. 2/3s of both.

81 WTF ails these people?

82 You can't fix stupid. Posted by: wth at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (wAQA5) No but apparently you can elect it President. Sigh

83 What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 22, 2013 12:25 PM

Now I can be a nice guy or I can be one mean sumbitch. It's all up to you

84 70 ScoggDogg,

because if you don't the soialist program slinging, amnesty loving retards will have won.....

or something.

85 Being in charge is different than being a Community Organizer Agitator. It requires a different set of skills which President Obama is having to learn on the job. But he's doing the best that he can, bless his heart.

Stuff you can say to your relatives at Thanksgiving.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole

An 'umble suggestion, m'lord.

86 The faster you dummies realize this is what we want for you, the better off you will be.

87 Zero & Reid won't allow a Republican to delay "0"care and I suspect Reid and Cruz know this. What better way to guarantee that the Dems ride this all the way to the bottom?

88 Rubio shot himself in the ass with    amnesty,  and now he's shooting himself in the foot with this.  All he's got to do is shoot himself in the other foot with gun control and he'll have the RINO trifecta!

89

I'm torn between letting it run in full and letting it implode on it's own, HOWEVER, with most Federal Programs if we don't get rid of it ASAP we will be stuck with it for ever.

 

Damned of we and Damned if we don't.

 

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (t3UFN)

 

Or as the great prophet of DOOM, Monty, would say if I were he, "We are terminally Bo(eh)ned."

90 Drew you are so remarkable dense sometimes...and prone to contradiction earlier positions. Or perhaps you are so committed to the ideological side of politics that your spurn matters of strategy and tactics as a kind of moral pollution or something. The Dems cannot accept a delay of the mandate because that funds Obamacare. They will thus have to vote no. Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness.

91 No delay!  No "fixes"!  Make the Democrats own the whole mess before the 2014 elections.

92 What a total buffoon.

By the way- feeling flaccid GOP? You could not get Obama to give this up in the debt/shutdown negotiation.

But now its a GOOD idea?

Good luck selling that to all the people with a WTF look on their faces.

93

When all you have is a Hammer, everything looks like a Nail...

 

 

When all you are is a Legislator, everything must be fixed through Legislation...

 

 

Republicans have failed... they are looking for a Win... proof that they could do SOMTHING....  Even if it helps put chains on us...

 

Next up?  Amnesty....

94

I kind of like the idea of delaying Obamacare for a year.

 

In private industry, a major mistake by management hurts because it costs money.  For government, it doesn't matter because they can just throw money at it.

 

That's our money.

 

Delay this by a year and we'll have a new Senate.  Then we can work on getting rid of this.  If we insist it gets pushed through now, people will think they're past the worst of it and start to find things they like about it.

 

 

95 The plane boss, the plane.

96

Jason you are dense

 

you think they care about going into the red over it?

 

wake up

 

they want this to fail

 

for single payer

97

This is just absurd. You can't fix a ship that is listing 40 degrees to port, on fire, with the cpatain practicing his wedge shots.

 

Hey now,  I need the practice!  I told Tiger I'd be able to break 110 by the end of my second term.

 

 

98 "With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (h1D+w)"

You know what is the problem with this shit sandwich?  There is no cilantro.  I'm going to make sure that you get plenty of cilantro with your shit sandwich.

99

The faster you dummies realize this is what we want for you, the better off you will be.

 

Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (oFCZn)

 

And by "better off", we mean "earlier to your deaths".

 

OINK!

100 90 Jason,

right Marco "mini McCain" Rubio is backing what led to the shutdown...which uh McConnell swore he'd never back ever...

Ogabe shut down the govt rather than delay...

"smart"

101 You see, when the businesses took American jobs overseas they were astonished how the could offer zero benefits to workers. After a decade or so they got cranky they still had to do it here. That's where we came in. They paid us to shaft you up the ass with this healthcare bill. They get to dump you on the exchange, we get more power and a bigger government, and you get a shit sandwich. It's working out pretty well so far.

102 By the way- feeling flaccid GOP? You could not get Obama to give this up in the debt/shutdown negotiation. But now its a GOOD idea? Because the GOP is impotent, they are going back to peanut gallery mode.

103

86 -

 

Wuh???  Republicans and Democrats working together for their own self-interests, with no regard for the actual people of this nation?

 

That's crazy talk, that is. 

104 Would you like a refill Senor?

105 "91 No delay! No "fixes"! Make the Democrats own the whole mess before the 2014 elections.

Posted by: cool breeze at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (A+/8k)"

As they like to tell us, it's the law!

106

jwest

 

awesome plan

 

lets take it off the table so it wont be a factor in the 2014 elections

 

WIN!!!!

 

why I see it now

 

I am sure the media will cooperate with this genius strategy

107 Look out! We're pulling up the ladder!

108

Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness.

 

Uh sure, absolutely.  Hey, did you see what Kim Kardashian wore last night?

109

Perhaps talk of  'fixing it' it is to help to fix in the mind of the people that it is actually broken. You don't have to pass anything. You just make attempts to fix it that are unpalatable to the Dems.

Then you are pragmatic and they are obstructionist defenders of a broken system.

110 Zero & Reid won't allow a Republican to delay "0"care and I suspect Reid and Cruz know this. What better way to guarantee that the Dems ride this all the way to the bottom? As an "R"? Keep your mouth shut & stay out of the way. The embodiment of Let. It. Burn.

111 Just do what we tell you. It's not like you're going to do anything anyway you fat, ball cap wearing pigs. Just sit in front of the television and watch your little shows. We're in charge now.

112 The game is full on fascism. See nakedcapitalism.com for details.

113 I lost my shinebox again.

114

90 -

 

Could someone translate this into English?  I  tried plugging  it into Google Translate, but  they don't have a button for "stupid." 

115 Is DrewM laying down another Grand Inquisition of Conservatism?

It must be a weekday.

116 mark o rubio needs to go away-e-o

117 Can we have a thread where we just bash Dems?

118 Voters in Flori-dah need to make Marco a one-term Senator... Mac and Lindsey have gotten to him and made him into a RINO

119 I'm pretty much done with the GOP.  Unless there's a truly massive sea-change in the party, I can't see supporting them.  Stab in the front or stab in the back?  You still get stabbed either way.

120

117 -

 

No.

121 "94
I kind of like the idea of delaying Obamacare for a year.

In private industry, a major mistake by management hurts because it costs money. For government, it doesn't matter because they can just throw money at it.

That's our money.

Delay this by a year and we'll have a new Senate. Then we can work on getting rid of this. If we insist it gets pushed through now, people will think they're past the worst of it and start to find things they like about it.

Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:31 PM (u2a4R)"

We tried to delay it for a year.

Remember?  That was one of the options that Congress proposed and that Obama rejected.  Then the wiser heads among the GOP prevailed over the wacko birds and ended all that government shutdown nonsense.

122

"lets take it off the table so it wont be a factor in the 2014 elections"

 

You think everyone, including the republicans, are going to forget about this through the election?

 

Why do you think the liberals are pushing so hard to get this thing going?  They know that once you give someone something, you can never take it away.

 

Yes, a lot of people are getting fucked on Obamacare, but a lot of other people are getting onboard the gravy train.

 

I think we can remind the right group at election time how this program was managed. 

123 Look, the American people just want free gub'mint shit. You can't fight city hall!

124

Lets see two alternatives occur

 

1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate hikes and the law's implosion. Republicans claim victory and ask why shutdown occurred if this was to happen anyway

 

2) voted down. Republicans get to rub in that little people get no waivers. I don't see how it works before penalty comes due. By republicans proposing they make a waiver less likely and further tie Obama to it politically.

125 Aw, don't fret, little wingnutz. Soon as I'm up for re-election, I'll start talking your Tea Party language again. Long as you send me those sweet, sweet donations. Adios for now!

126 Oh, and by the way - you know who also opposes letting Obamacare go into effect unhindered and doing incredible damage to the Democrats?

That goddamn liberal RINO traitor Ted Cruz.

127

jwest you seem to have forgotten that when is comes to elections, we don't control the narrative.

 

War on Womyn!!!!!

128 115 Lou,

nope...this is a genius "Republican" move

129 The Dems cannot accept a delay of the mandate because that funds Obamacare. They will thus have to vote no. Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness.

Posted by: Jason

As our betters on the Left reminded us just last week, the ACA is already funded. And the results of the cave-in give O-ring a blank checkbook until Feb.

That $500 billion taken from Medicare wasn't just a bug.

130 There's some strategic ambiguity (at least for now) in Cruz's statement that Rubio's action lacks.

Gee, what a surprise.

131 The last one was stolen.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (0HooB)

************************

Agreed. But enough idiots not only voted for him to enable the theft, enough accepted unquestionably the "results" as the MSM dictated them.

132 C'mon, it's over. The only way you're getting rid of us or this thing is through a revolution and it's not going to happen. You're too fat, too old, and too distracted by bullshit we've foisted on you over the last 50 years. We own every institution in this country. The first one of you old farts that starts trouble will be destroyed in seconds. Now pay for your fucking insurance or we'll take all of your shit.

133 damned sock

134 Marco has really been a disappointment after joining that nasty gang. Parents should warn their children not to hang out with guys like McCain and Graham.

135 114 90 - Could someone translate this into English? I tried plugging it into Google Translate, but they don't have a button for "stupid." Just remember...your spurn matters. A lot.

136 This post was just the sort of bland I was looking for. Like a 3pm trip to Bob Evans.

137 thunderb, #127: "we don't control the narrative. "War on Womyn!!!!!" Hell, binders full of' em.

138 Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything?  The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop.  If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless.

Also, is there not a separate failure mode for Obamacare which no one is mentioning... namely that insurance companies will all opt out of the exchanges as the death spiral becomes apparent?  Apparently they are not forced to participate in the exchanges.  I am not sure if they can continue signing up people outside the exchanges or if the ACA rules still apply in that case, but they could certainly sit on their customer base and not sign anyone new up as they watch their competition burn to the ground.  Many companies are not participating so there must be some reason they chose not to do so.

I suspect many of the participating companies have been promised a bailout if things go badly.  This is the usual method of getting companies to act against their interest as we saw with the mortgage market.  Fascist countries always have these sorts of backstops for regime cronies.

139 Rubio and all the other establishment Republicans are the kind of guys who think if they pay the hot blonde's credit card bills and take the humiliating jobs in silence, she'll love them for their kindness. But she keeps hitting on the stud or cool guy right in front of you, knowing that if she doesn't end up going home with him, you'll still give her a ride

140

1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate hikes and the law's implosion. Republicans claim victory and ask why shutdown occurred if this was to happen anyway

2) voted down. Republicans get to rub in that little people get no waivers. I don't see how it works before penalty comes due. By republicans proposing they make a waiver less likely and further tie Obama to it politically.

 

Posted by: Jollyroger

 

 

this is a better argument.  However, even if it were to pass, I don't think McConnell or Boehner would be smart enough or articulate enough to ?claim victory".

 

as to number 2, Carney said no less than six times yesterday that the administration will be pursuing "de facto" waiver by not assessing penalties until the website works

141

Oh..... and Rand Paul has submitted a Constitutional Amendment to Congress....

 

That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry....

 

I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly.

142 SCREW RUBIO!  Saw yesterday that he's backing and endorsing Mitch McConnell's reelection.  Just stack one more brick in the wall against Rubio. 

143 Thing is you can't just delay O-care and the day after it's delayed everything goes back to normal. All existing policies that were illegal under O-care won't all of a sudden be brought back for a year and then removed again. Insurance companies have been planning for this for years and won't unwind everything for a 1 year delay.

144

Rubio needs to sit down and shut up.

 

Republicans didn't vote for this CF; they have absolutely no reason whatsoever to try and  "fix" it.

 

The Democrats' fingerprints are all over the original bill - they own it; let them deal with the fall-out.

 

The only "fix" I want to see from  the Republicans is a full-out repeal of this disaster.

 

Anything  else can be proposed and implemented by the Democrats.

 

Nancy and Harry wanted this - now they can choke on it.

145

"Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything? The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop. If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless."

 

BRAVO!!!!!!!!

146

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:45 PM (0LHZx)

 

We are already seeing lawsuits based on them delaying the Company mandate.... as the decision to delay it hurt companies who were already trying to comply with it...

147 135 114
90 -

Could someone translate this into English? I tried plugging it into Google Translate, but they don't have a button for "stupid."



Just remember...your spurn matters. A lot.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (7ObY1)

Oh yeeees...it must be saved for my little...friends...[insert maniacal laughter]

148

1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate tax hikes and the law's implosionsuccess.

 

This clusterfark will create more dem voters thus locking in a perpetual voting block of people getting free stuff.

149 Just like Democrats threw Bush a lifeline on the Iraq war, huh Marco?

150 Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything? The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop. If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless.

Posted by: Thatch

To get DotGov out of HC, legislation has to be passed. Want an interstate insurance market? That's legislation.

Want tax-deductability of HSA's? That's legislation. Ditto med malpractice caps and a host of other problems with the previous set of laws that turned our HC into a mess.

That's what we mean by replace.

Overturning O-Care doesn't change our HC system into a land of fucking sunshine.

151 134 Marco has really been a disappointment after joining that nasty gang. Parents should warn their children not to hang out with guys like McCain and Graham. Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM

Hey Marco, is that Lindsey's ring you're wearing?

My folks were always putting him down,
They said he came from the wrong side of town
They told me he was bad,
But I know he was sad
That's why I fell for The Leader of the Gang

152 A better PR move would be to introduce a repeal bill. Simple 1 sentence bill. It won't go anywhere of course, but a lot more people will agree with it than 6 months ago. And this is what counts now, the PR, not actual bills passing or not passing.

153

That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry....

I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly.

 

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:44 PM (lZBBB)

 

 

Of course, the REAL story shouldn't be that he's proposed the amendment, but that he felt the amendment needed to be proposed.      After all,   the Constitution    already    covers this.     "Equal rights under the law" doesn't mean   "Except for the people who   make the laws, because they're special."    It shouldn't be necessary to amend the Constitution to remind the elected and appointed officials in our gubmint that they're bound by the law, too.

154

147 -

 

That's funny cuz Harry Reid is a pedophile. 

155 EL PARTIDO STUPIDO

156

"The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop."

 

Realistically, we can't do that.

 

Part of the reason is that half the republicans would revolt if you tried to take away their Medicare.

 

The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic.  In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment.

 

All we are giving up is the tiny slice of the catastrophic pie that isn't already paid for by Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Admin.  People who need catastrophic care who are below 65 (or 62), employed in a well paying job and are covered by private insurance is too small a group to fight over.

157 Marco Rubio can kiss my lovely rear-end.

158

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (4df7R)

 

Agree.... but he seems to understand some of the anger out here... and its a VERY astute Political move...

 

One the GOP insiders will hate...

159 Obama won't take the lifeline....he was willing to send the country past the debt limit and shut the government down forever for his "achievement". It is named after him, he will never defund it, he will never delay it (no matter how many lifelines you give him), and he will never change it (unless only Obama does the changing). It is on....ObamaCare or bust.

160

Oh..... and Rand Paul has submitted a Constitutional Amendment to Congress....

That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry....

I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly.

 

I'm all in favor of  this,  too.   I   really want to hear Dims and RINOs defending their vote against this.

 

After all, isn't it only fair?

161 157 Marco Rubio can kiss my lovely rear-end. Posted by: Y-not at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM

You know the rules!!!

162 If the GOP goes for tinkering  with ACA to shore it up, then I'm going to have better things to do come  November 2014.  Sorry, am not interested  in the dog food you are peddling.

163

Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R)

 

 

My..... you mean just give them a little of what they want, and add to entitlements....

 

What a .... Progressive.... solution....

164 If the GOP regains control of the Senate, who will the next Jim Jeffords be? Auditions are ongoing.

165 Oh goodie! Another DremM post. Let's see what the #burnitdown folks are saying today....

166

The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic. In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment.

 

GTF out

 

"Grand Bargains" are neither

 

and how, pray tell, are you going to get Reid and the JEF to negotiate?

167 The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic. In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) ___________ I've supported this idea for a long time. If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills. If you have a broken arm or have the flu or need birth control, you pay for it yourself or you have an insurance policy - PRIVATE INSURANCE - that pays for it.

168 Let it burn. IF the GOP helps with fixes they also want Obamacare so that they can control you if they ever take back power.

169 Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) Fuck off you big government loving socialist.

170 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". >>> Except in the long run.....you do. BECAUSE THE SUFFERING IS THE LESSON. Let the voters suffer, even the low-info wastes of life in this country can put two and two together. It's called playing the long game.

171 Is Rubio forgetting that at least half the nation did not want this clusterfark in the first place? What planet is he living on? I really cannot figure him out. I don't see him politically "positioning" himself (for who? Independents?), so what is he really doing? Some will say he's staying true to his gut feelings, but they are all over the place, and inconsistent with what the people want - regardless of dem or repub. I'm lost on Rubio.

172 If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills.

---------------




Why?

173 The only way to fix Zerocare is to ditch Zerocare.

174

Dear Rube-io,

 

You might want to start by saying, "So, before the shutdown we'd offered the Senate and President a continuing resolution that funded the    entire government with the exception of Obamacare,   the    full    implementation of  which we would have delayed for a year.   They repeatedly said no, leading to the   lengthy shut down of the federal government.  After seeing the ineffective and ultimately unuseable state of the    Obamacare  infrastructure,    I    want    to ask Senator Reid and President Obama if they'd like to rethink their earlier decision."

175 It is on....ObamaCare or bust. Mr. Maths says "bust".

176 164 If the GOP regains control of the Senate, who will the next Jim Jeffords be? Auditions are ongoing. Posted by: Furious George at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (yFb77) _____________ You mean besides Juan McCain? I'm betting on either Flake or Rubio.

177 "You think everyone, including the republicans, are going to forget about this through the election?"


Yes.


The media can't tell people what to think but by flogging and spiking stories they can tell people what to think about.

178 Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) Ah, here we go again with the "catastrophic government insurance." Remember though that this was the original goal of Social security, a catastrophic retirement insurance if you will. Just like SS, this would eventually be whittled down to single payer.

179 No, Jerry.

The fact that you don't want them to does not change the fact that Republicans are ALREADY part owners of Obamacare. Rubio is indeed an idiot, but he also realizes if they don't fix this, it will be hung around his neck as much as it will the Dems.

You can rail against it, gnash your teeth all you want. Doesn't change reality.

You bought Obamacare. You own it. Enjoy! Posted by: BurtTC
.......
You're daft.  Not one Republican voted for Obamacare.

The Republican budget has voted to defund Obamacare for 3 years.

The House has voted to repeal Obamacare for 3 years.

That fact none of these efforts were successful makes not one bit of difference - we didn't have the numbers.

The Dems own it, and no one else.

180

"and how, pray tell, are you going to get Reid and the JEF to negotiate?"

 

If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up.

 

 

181 You know, the 'compare plans' part of the O-Care website already existed. It's called ehealthinsurance.com

But there's no control freak IRS connection on that site, and it's mostly free market. Heaven knows, we can't have that.

I think Rush Limbaugh is correct. Just about every program the progressives undertake just becomes a big money maker for the gov't and a way to control the population or exercise control.

See Carbon Credits.  See Obamacare.  etc.

182 When Drew says some in comments are arguing that this is smart politics we all knew who the fuck he was talking about.

183 166 thunderb,

Uh er thanks so uh singlepayer it is JWest?

//Ogabe

184 Why? Posted by: mama winger at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (P6QsQ) _____________ Because I said so!

185 so, anyone hoping boehner or someone is putting a little risk management into their thought process before flying all of congress to fl? I did not see if it is the USAF flying them or if they chartered reichstagair, anyone know?

186

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (0LHZx)

 

Please point out anywhere in Human History.... where when a Government gets partial control of something.... that control does NOT grow?

 

 

187

If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills.

WTF?   Why?

188

the left couldn't pass it up?

 

 

bwhwhahahahahhahhahhahahahahah

 

where the fuck have you been?

189 How could Rubio talk with McCain's schwantz in his mouth? Sorry Marco McCain. FUCK YOU.

190 Now pay for your fucking insurance or we'll take all of your shit.

I don't mind paying for my insurance; it's paying for the this fucking guys' insurance that I mind.

http://is.gd/JGSc8p

191 If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up.

---------------



Brilliant!  Let's just offer up leftist bills then!  Problem solved. 

192 I think there could be a role for a govt insurance deal that works like medicare, but only for catastrophic items. The problem is of course, that as soon as that's implemented, the left will be fighting to define a hang nail as catastrophic.

193 >>>I'm lost on Rubio. He's flailing about desperately trying to gain back his popularity. Trying to do everything he can think of to get it back. And since a lot of the republican establishment media loves them some amnesty they keep trying to help him with it too.

194 universal single payer catastrophic coverage

Watch how fast every single routine checkup becomes "catastrophic".

195

Just as we Morons were talking about yesterday...

 

The neo-statist Establishment Republicans want big government - they just want to be running the show.

196 A better PR move would be to introduce a repeal bill. Simple 1 sentence bill. It won't go anywhere of course, but a lot more people will agree with it than 6 months ago. And this is what counts now, the PR, not actual bills passing or not passing.

You're right that the PR battle is very important, but passing yet another House bill to repeal Obamacare isn't going to get any press.  It wouldn't move the needle at all.

At this point I think the LIB strategy (as it relates to Obamacare) is about the best we can do.  It'll be a lot easier to convince voters that Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster after they experience said disaster firsthand.

Nobody pays attention to the crazy guy holding a "REPENT THE END IS NEAR" sign until they see the flaming meteors falling from the sky.

197 Please point out anywhere in Human History.... where when a Government gets partial control of something.... that control does NOT grow? Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (lZBBB) _____________ I know. I said so above #192.

198

jwest you have finally been revealed

 

GTFO

 

switch parties already.  Share your wisdom with them

199 rubio is an idiot. know who else is an idiot, obama. if he had a single iq point to his name he would have given the republicans the delay for funding the government and ending the shutdown. nope. instead of giving away nothing and getting the optics of negotiating he indulged his ego and now has to choke on his website. jedichessmaster indeed. affirmativeactionadministration.com

200 If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills.

Hemorrhoids, too.

201 "Unless conservatives believe there will be real changes in the GOP the next time they get control, they aren't going to get behind the idea of playing ball with Team GOP."

Sarah Palin was right. And the iron-fisted mandates against faith-based health care facilities are still part of the package, too.

Glenn Reynolds:

OLD SPIN: Death Panels are just some crazy thing Sarah Palin made up.
New Spin: Hey, Death Panels Are Actually A Good Thing!

202 You could structure the definition of catastrophic to be % based. Something like catastrophic = treatment that is more than 100% of national median income. And institute a rule that the definition can only be changed by a 2/3 vote in the Senate....just like Obamacare has. If the GOP were smart - LOL, I know, I know - it could be workable.

203 LIB  is the only way forward.  Because  nothing can stop   the burning times    now.

204 Watch how fast every single routine checkup becomes "catastrophic".

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (/kI1Q)

 

 

 

 

Thats not the worst of it. See how long it takes them to set up guide lines for how you have to live your life to bet catastropic coverage.

205 Once again I find myself on the DrewM bandwagon. Pass me a kazoo today.

206 Single payer catastrophic food insurance. I desperately need a cheeseburger.

207 universal single payer catastrophic coverage Watch how fast every single routine checkup becomes "catastrophic". Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (/kI1Q) exactly And Jullia will want tampon coverage. That's pretty catastrophic. High out of pocket monthly expense and you pay taxes on them! wtf?

208 rubio is too impatient. he is lucky he is where he is. whoever is telling him to make a play for the nomination n 2016 is also not his friend. he should bide his time, establish some creds and make a play later. he also needs to quit sipping the amnesty kool-aid.

209 Soooo why exactly is Congress being flown to Florida?   And by the Air Force? 

210 Single payer catastrophic food insurance. I desperately need a cheeseburger. Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at October 22, 2013 01:00 PM (WLywR) only good thing about winter is SOUP!

211 See how long it takes them to set up guide lines for how you have to live your life to bet catastropic coverage.

I'm pretty sure they already have.  Age, race, ZIP code, party affiliation.  Probably not in that order.

212 catastrophic will include birth control, abortion, fertility treatments, and sex change operations

213 Posted by: maddogg at October 22, 2013 01:00 PM (xWW96) The power to control healthcare is the power to control a populace. Hell even Prog King Foucault saw that.

214 Given this latest example of Nicklefuckery ... Please oh please don't let the Dem/GOP alliance decide that Beer and Golf are a Human Right.

215 118 Voters in Flori-dah need to make Marco a one-term Senator... Mac and Lindsey have gotten to him and made him into a RINO Posted by: Pimp Daddy Welfare at October 22, 2013 12:37 PM (Jls4P) Rubio was never a conservative. He is and always has been a Republican first. We need to face the facts that Rubio isn't the RINO. WE are the RINOs. The Republican party is not a 'conservative' party in any sense of the word. They area the party of Go-along-get-along (GAGA).

216 Whether we like it or not, American society is moving towards a "government should pay for everything" mentality. Single payer is likely within my lifetime. The way to avoid a 100% single payer system is something like catastrophic single payer coverage. We will never have a 100% free market based insurance system again. That's just reality.

217 We should put out the Ewok Signal - just for kicks. Every day this week. Then, go Pysch!.

218 205 dogfish,

yup...last year Drew and I got into it...

post election he's dead on...

I want catastrophic video game insurance...


Marvel came out today...

219 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:02 PM (0LHZx) Then all is lost. Well it's been a good run.

220 Soooo why exactly is Congress being flown to Florida? And by the Air Force?

They're being inducted into the clown section at the Ringling museum.

221 216 Mr Mau Mau,

thanks for arguing for secession

222 Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 01:03 PM (9jfyN) According to my email my copy of Bioshock infinite shipped today. Yippee!

223

This would be    a   good  for the Pubbies to remind  everyone that we could have something  better, more efficient, lest costly, less intrusive. And then  propose their  free market    plan.

 

 

224 Then all is lost.

Well it's been a good run.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 22, 2013 01:03 PM (GaqMa)

 

 

 

 

Not hardly. The war hasn't been fought yet.

225 I don't know what I think about Rubio's suggestion, mainly because impossibility should be a defense to the penalty and I'm not convinced it will be. Having a statutory direction that impossibility is a legitimate defense at least strikes me initially as being a good idea. I do think the counter arguments are solid as well. Shall ponder. Their track record isn't very good. Unless conservatives believe there will be real changes in the GOP the next time they get control, they aren't going to get behind the idea of playing ball with Team GOP. I know this has been beaten into the ground but I will reiterate that if I already have teams for which I root despite their utter futility. I don't need to port that over to politics.

226 The Democrats will never agree to any legislative modification of Obamacare.

They will only consider illegal, unilateral "fixes" by Obama.

The reason is simple: Once they've agreed to "open the books" they have no power to stop the GOP from adding other "fixes."

And that's what they are most scared of.

Look at the political damage they are suffering from it as it is now.

And yet, there is something even more frightening to them in the GOP getting a chance at "fixing" it.

That's what should scare us, the "I'd rather take the rape charge than tell the truth" that the Dems are engaged in here.

227 If you guys don't stop bashing my goofy ideas ima gonna copy and paste the entire thread into my next comment!!11!!

228 thanks for arguing for secession Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 01:04 PM (9jfyN) __________ 1 thing less likely than a return to free market insurance is secession by states. But hey, keep dreaming if you must.

229 http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/177916/

Hrm.


Whether we like it or not, American society is moving towards a "government should pay for everything" mentality.

I'm pretty sure we're already there.  Gov't pays for everyone's K-12 education; and food, shelter/energy, medical care, and fucking cell phones for a very significant fraction (and even throws in cash so you can get fashion and tattoos without having to miss a meal). 

230 The only fix Obamacare needs is an open space, a match, and a bonfire permit.

231 I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly. Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:44 PM

See: Hell, snowball's chance in.

Can you imagine ANY of those self-entitled fucksticks allowing themselves to be hindered by rules intended only for the mouthbreathing voters? Shit, Reid, Pelosi, McCain, Bitch McConnell and the rest (I'm not gonna list all 535 of 'em here) would feel themselves somehow hindered in Doing the People's Work if they had to worry about obeying laws.

Of course Baby RuPaul didn't extend this mandate to Choom Boy. He knows there are limits....

Fuck all of these worthless, resource-draining looters. Especially Rubio.

232 *clicks on Healthcare.gov* *welcome to healthcare.gov! Would you like to apply for health insurance? Y/N* *Y* *thank you! Please enter your age.* *39* *Your party nears a river, do you attempt to cross? Y/N* *huh?* *Your party nears a river, do you attempt to cross? Y/N* *Y* *The river is too deep and current too strong. Your party drowns.* *what??* *Your party runs out of bullets and is eaten by a pack of wolves.* *??!!!* *Your party gets caught in a blizzard and is forced to eat each other. Thank you for using healthcare.gov. Have a healthy day!*

233 so, obama is hiring verizon, is someone going to start 'can you hear me now" parodies? can you register now? can yo log in now? am I covered now? is it ringing now? can I haz healthcare now?

234 1 thing less likely than a return to free market insurance is secession by states. But hey, keep dreaming if you must.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:07 PM (0LHZx)

 

 

 

Yeah , you would get the impression there was a precedent or something.

235 We will never have a 100% free market based insurance system again. That's just reality. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo
====
Huh?  Idiocy.  Health insurance has always been regulated.  In some states more heavily than others.  Blue Cross and Blue Shield, for instance.  Each state has a separate corporation because the insurance companies can't sell policies out of state.  Heck, insurance agencies are regulated.

236 219 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:02 PM (0LHZx) Then all is lost. Well it's been a good run. Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 22, 2013 01:03 PM (GaqMa) __________ Dude don't shoot the messenger. Are you disputing the fact that the country has taken a decidedly left turn over the past decade or so? People want more govt free shit. I didn't realize this was up for debate.

237 What have we actually got a free market in? Not milk, grain, sugar, education, or healthcare. Our rulers over at Goldman Sachs don't believe in free markets.

238

Going back to "start" to let some of the people here catch up with the conversation.

 

The left's goal is total, universal, government run single payer healthcare.

 

The right's (us) goal is total free market, deregulated, personal responsibility healthcare.

 

Right now, after years of wrangling, we're stuck with Obamacare, which is more towards the left side of the scale.

 

The question is:  How do we swing things back around and get as much of a free market system  as possible?

 

First, we need to recognize certain facts.  As far as treatment, there are two catagories:  catastrophic and everyday.  Everyday healthcare is everything you can foresee, like checkups, regular care, colds, cuts, broken limbs, pretty much what you would go to a doctor for.

 

Catastrophic is the stuff you can't foresee.  Cancer, heart attacks, major accidents, real expensive stuff. 

 

In this category, most of the money paid out right now is for people over the age of 62 and falls into Medicare.  Next in line is the spending for the poor, which is covered by Medicaid.  Then the payments for treating all the veterans through the VA. 

 

The private spending for catastrophic illness being paid by private insurance companies for people younger than 62 that don't qualify for any government program is (relatively) small.

 

That's why a catastrophic policy for younger people is cheap.  It's not used that often.

 

My plan is to give the democrats a victory by getting total, universal single payer catastrophic coverage for everyone.  In exchange, we get a free market HSA system that is majorly deregulated. 

 

We give up a tiny slice for a major market segment. 

 

If you look at it fairly, it's a pretty good deal for us.

239 Leader of the...GANG???

240 Have not read the comments. We need to one thing. STFU and repeat over and over again.. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN VOTED FOR THIS PIECE OF SHIT. NOT ONE You vote for democrats you get this shit. Have a nice day, and vote Republican next time.

241 As far as getting the federal government out of healthcare completely- that's idealist silliness.  That ship sailed decades ago.

The GOP and conservative movement aren't going to win with a "fuck the poor, let them die in the streets" platform.

Yes, I know that the poor and uninsured weren't denied health care, but that was because of a government mandate.

Like it or not, any effort to repeal Obamacare is going to have to be coupled with a Republican alternative.

242 222 tsrbike,

nice...the middle fingers against the tea party had me sit that one out....

Mau Mau says that the nation is trending commie..."ok"...

so he'll help fight to cleanse the schools?

Nah bro just vote for McModerates...

yeah "no"....

the GOP will be better off without me...and all 25-37.5% conservatives....

"winning!"

243

233 so, obama is hiring verizon, is someone going to start 'can you hear me now" parodies?  

----

Can you heal me now?

244 The reason people need free shit to survive is the rejection of free market capitalism by our owners.

245 I envision the future GOP as a shining sea of people in red shirts -- Republicans of every stripe, whether libertarians, statists, hawks, doves, socialists, environmentalists, free marketers, communists, trade unionists, country clubbers, illegal immigrants, emo chicks, rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.

When they're all wearing red shirts, then my work here is done.

246 If you look at it fairly, it's a pretty good deal for us. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 01:09 PM (u2a4R) _________ FUCKING COMMIE!!! I agree with you. The problem though is how do you keep the separation between routine and catastrophic at a reasonable level. The left will want the flu to be labeled catastrophic. It has to be a rigid separation that can't be changed easily.

247 Whether we like it or not, American society is moving towards a "government should pay for everything" mentality. I'm pretty sure we're already there. Gov't pays for everyone's K-12 education; and food, shelter/energy, medical care, and fucking cell phones for a very significant fraction (and even throws in cash so you can get fashion and tattoos without having to miss a meal). Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at October 22, 2013 01:07 PM (/kI1Q) dunno unions are going bust is there more home schooling? It seems like it, but, I do not know the stats. the tea party movement was one example how a small flame can grow pretty quickly honestly, time will tell, and it's understood if we continue to (illegally or not) import 3rd world people who are used to freebies, and have no clue about American's foundation and historical work ethic, the tide will turn for good yeah, I think we are at the tipping point, but I won't give up "S"* *bs hope reference from man of steel /spit

248 My folks were always putting him down,
They said he came from the wrong side of town
They told me he was bad,
But I know he was sad
That's why I fell for The Leader of the Gang

Posted by: Marco and the RINO-La's at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (aTXUx)

 

No.  The song for all these RINO  assholes is He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss)

249 #223, BaBo

The only "plan" the Republicans could offer that would make sense -- if they had the necessary Dangling Courage Units, which they don't -- is a total government walk-away from national healthcare, a restoration of the competitive free market, not clouded by billows of choom smoke or tainted by the grubby fingers of various D.C.-selected hustlers.

Anything else is unacceptable.

250

You now say:

We wanted to delay Obamacre. the Dems rejected it. Obama refused to even talk about it.

We shut down the government to force shutting it down. The Dems wouldn't budge.

You say that every day until the elections next year. Every. Day.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (f9c2L)

 

This +1000.  Chi-Town Jerry for RNC Chair!

251 Hear that folks? Moo moo says the science is settled. I feel I must surrender as resistance is futile.

252

"American society is moving towards a "government should pay for everything" mentality."

 

 

To the extent that it is, it's people not wanting to grow up and take on the hard adult responsibilities of life.  Let paternalistic  "Big Pappa"  make all the hard choices  for you and do the heavy lifting.  That man over there behind the tree can pay for it.

 

 

This is NOT my vision for America.

253 is it ringing now?

can I haz healthcare now?

Posted by: yankeefifth

Normally I'd just flick your ear for the reaching for obvious and already dead joke but this is actually what they created:

DoYouGotInsurance.com  leads to a marketing hub.

254 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:08 PM (0LHZx) Eh, I know I know. I like to pretend there's still hope.

255

The problem though is how do you keep the separation between routine and catastrophic at a reasonable level. The left will want the flu to be labeled catastrophic. It has to be a rigid separation that can't be changed easily

 

 

 

riiiigggghhhhhttt

 

birth control, abortion, fertility treatments, sex change operation will allll be catastrophic

256 The idea has to be put in terms of car insurance....your insurance company doesn't pay for oil changes and new tires. It pays if you have an accident and someone sues you for $1M. That's how health insurance should work too. You pay for check ups, you pay for minor ailments. If you get cancer, insurance pays.

257 Yes, we must go to Florida for the Funerary Games.... alert the Legions, tell them we need transport...

258 233 so, obama is hiring verizon, is someone going to start 'can you hear me now" parodies? Can you heal me now?

259 WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME WITH YOUR HEALTH COVERAGE?

260 251 Whatever you do, don't make him copy paste again.

261 birth control, abortion, fertility treatments, sex change operation will allll be catastrophic Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (zOTsN) __________ They don't have to be if the law is structured right. That's my fucking point.

262 If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up.

Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (u2a4R)

 

 

 

And who, pray tell, is going to PAY for "Universal Single Payer" coverage?

 

It's really great to talk about Belling  the Cat - until  it comes time to figure out who is actually going to be the one to  get out there and do it.

263

This is OT, but important.

 

Remember, only law enforcment officers should be allowed to carry guns, because they're responsible.

 

Police Officer Fired after    Pepper Spraying,   Shooting   Squirrel

 

Breitbart: http://tinyurl.com/pgvmfmy

 

 

 

MOUNTAIN CITY, TN (WBIR) - A Tennessee police officer has been fired after displaying heavy force in an attempt to rid a Dollar General Store of a squirrel.  The incident occurred last Thursday in Mountain City, when according to police documents, now-former Officer Jody Putnam found himself at the right place at the right time. Or the wrong place at the wrong time. Documents state that Putnam happened to be inside the Dollar General Store at the same time employees noticed a squirrel. That's when Putnam sprang into action, discharging his firearm at the squirrel inside the store. Unsuccessful, he moved on to option 2: pepper spray...

 

 

Now if you read the   actual    incident    details    as reported at the Mountain City Tomahawk   (http://tinyurl.com/m2zscms),       the officer    maced the squirrel FIRST, then shot it.     It's important to get details right, or else this looks not only fucking stupid, but fucking ass backward stupid.

264 That's how health insurance should work too. You pay for check ups, you pay for minor ailments. If you get cancer, insurance pays.

 

 

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (0LHZx)

 

 

But Birth Control is a RIGHT!!!

265 Normally I'd just flick your ear for the reaching for obvious and already dead joke but this is actually what they created: DoYouGotInsurance.com leads to a marketing hub. Posted by: weft cut-loop it has already been done? it is obvious but I had no idea it was also already done. DoYouGotInsurance.com leads to a marketing hub. Posted by: weft cut-loop makes sense, obama said 150 languages, ebonics has to be one.

266 What's the time delay on new threads under the Reign of the Cobs?

267 "a lot of the republican establishment media"

Who would this include outside Medved and Hewitt?

268

and of course all childhood pediatric visits are catastrophic

 

its preventative, and its for the children!!!!!!

269 And who, pray tell, is going to PAY for "Universal Single Payer" coverage?It's really great to talk about Belling the Cat - until it comes time to figure out who is actually going to be the one to get out there and do it. Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (PZ6/M) _________________ You're paying for it already.

270 Marco Rubio...Hey, We Should Throw Obama A Lifeline On ObamaCare

Hey, we should throw an anchor to Marco Rubio's backstabbing career in government.

271 Has anybody suggested he change his name to Marco Rube ?

272 Rubio sings Katy Perry ... "I kissed Dem Ass and I liked it. Hope Conservatives don't mind it ..."

273 Please don't take away my Affordable Care Act insurance Senator Rubio.

274 So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the True Patriot Heroes?

275 birth control, abortion, fertility treatments, sex change operation will allll be catastrophic Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (zOTsN) __________ They don't have to be if the law is structured right. That's my fucking point. What they are saying is the the law won't STAY structured properly.

276 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:11 PM (0LHZx) The left understands incrimentalism. We don't. This is a bad idea because of incrimentalism. I'd also point out that the only realistic way to keep the separation in check is to put either a lifetime or annual out of pocket expenditure cap, which of course will require more reporting to government on your spending. The other option is to declare certain treatments to be covered instead. Kinda like we did with medicare and End stage renal disease. While this solved one problem (the lack of access to dialysis) it created many more (see also: the number of people on dialysis who are dying regardless of the dialysis, but the dialysis pays, so let's do it.)

277 "Unless conservatives believe there will be real changes in the GOP the next time they get control, they aren't going to get behind the idea of playing ball with Team GOP."

Message from conservatives: "You better convince us you are going to change Team GOP or we won't come out and play."  Protip: People don't change. Go find another game and stop trying to burn down ours.

278 Early in the comments it was said this is our fault. Speak for yourself. Like BackwardsBoy, I didn't vote for this shit. And I do the best I can to educate people. Problem is, you can lead a horse to water...

279 That's when Putnam sprang into action, discharging his firearm at the squirrel inside the store. Unsuccessful, he moved on to option 2: pepper spray... Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (4df7R) He thought he was in an episode of Justified.

280

the penalty for not buying health insurance cannot be enforced...

http://tinyurl.com/mrdv4kf

 

281 No thanks. The reason they need to make this mandatory is the policies were written to be entirely worthless. If you could say no, the policies would have to be better.

282 Now if you read the actual incident details as reported at the Mountain City Tomahawk (http://tinyurl.com/m2zscms), the officer maced the squirrel FIRST, then shot it. It's important to get details right, or else this looks not only fucking stupid, but fucking ass backward stupid. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (4df7R) *rests head on shoulder* Fox pushed Almost Human premiere back two weeks.

283 why would anyone have any faith that an "entitlement" law would be "properly constructed"

284 What's with all these ads referring to it as "Obamacare"?  The term "Obamacare" is racist, you crackas!

285 Just wait until you see IAintGotNoInshizzle.com

286 So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the True Patriot Heroes?


Yes.  Absolutely.
Next question.

287 I'd also point out that the only realistic way to keep the separation in check is to put either a lifetime or annual out of pocket expenditure cap, which of course will require more reporting to government on your spending. The other option is to declare certain treatments to be covered instead. Kinda like we did with medicare and End stage renal disease. While this solved one problem (the lack of access to dialysis) it created many more (see also: the number of people on dialysis who are dying regardless of the dialysis, but the dialysis pays, so let's do it.) Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 22, 2013 01:16 PM (GaqMa) ____________ That's too detailed. I'd do it purely on a $ basis. Catastrophic = $50K a year let's say. And $50K a year increases every year at the rate of inflation. Up to $49,999 you're on your own. At $50,000, the govt covers the bills. And you don't get into the weeks of what's covered or what isn't covered.

288 There's also no reason why a private insurance company wouldn't be able to provide catastrophic plans.  Why does the gov have to provide single payer catastrophic?  Why give that to the libs?

289 Moo moo trusts his government. His other name is Charlie Brown, and he wants Lucy to hold the football for him.

290 They don't have to be if the law is structured right. That's my fucking point.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (0LHZx)

 

The law can never be structured to such an extent that things like thunderdb listed WON'T be able to fit through the cracks.  There will always be someone who says, "I can't have this baby.  If I do, it will be catastrophic."   Or,  "I can't get pregnant.  If I do, it will be    catastrophic."   Or,  "I'm a    woman living in a    man's    body.   I need gender reassignment surgery     or I'll do something catastrophic."

 

It WILL happen.  

291

Well, that didn't work - let's try this again:

 

If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up.

Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (u2a4R)

 

 

 

 

And who, pray tell, is going to PAY for "Universal Single Payer" coverage?

 

 

It's really great to talk about Belling the Cat - until it comes time to figure out who is actually going to be the one to get out there and do it.

292 IT WASN'T MEANT TO WORK. QUIT TRYING TO HELP THEM. JUST BEAT THEM, LOSERS.

293 But Birth Control is a RIGHT!!! Posted by: Screaming Liberal Skank

Here's a jellybean.  Hold it between your knees.

294 What's with all these ads referring to it as "Obamacare"? The term "Obamacare" is racist, you crackas! Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama Obamacare #whitehalf Better, snowflake?

295 Fox pushed Almost Human premiere back two weeks.

 

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 22, 2013 01:16 PM (VtjlW)

 

Noooooooooo.   Why?

296 So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the True Patriot Heroes? Back? He never left.

297 Don't you DARE rescue this.

298 I bet LauraW's   hump  is as smooth as  a baby's   ass  by  now.

299 And where in the Constitution is this theft of private property allowed?

300 Moo moo trusts his government. His other name is Charlie Brown, and he wants Lucy to hold the football for him. Posted by: maddogg at October 22, 2013 01:18 PM

Seems like we're getting a larger-than-normal influx of Rubioheads, underultilized Kos Kidz and Poppin' Fresh-style "conservatives" around here today.

Was getting them here part of Ace's plan to keep us all docile and unfocused while he's gone? If so, it's absolute freekin' GENIUS!!11!!

301

Rubio's idiocy is so earnest, its almost not fully and completely aggravating.  Almost.

302 Noooooooooo. Why? Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 01:20 PM (4df7R) *sniffles* Because Fox sucks and is now attempting to kill shows I wanna see even before the show starts? *sniffles more*

303 The law can never be structured to such an extent that things like thunderdb listed WON'T be able to fit through the cracks. There will always be someone who says, "I can't have this baby. If I do, it will be catastrophic." Or, "I can't get pregnant. If I do, it will be catastrophic." Or, "I'm a woman living in a man's body. I need gender reassignment surgery or I'll do something catastrophic." It WILL happen. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 01:18 PM (4df7R) ___________ For the 10th time....you get around this by defining catastrophic in terms of money, not in terms of procedures. You set a limit. $10K a year, $20K, whatever. Up to that limit, you are responsible for the cost, either by paying cash or having insurance. Above that limit, the govt pays for it. So birth control, unless it costs $21K a year, will not be covered.

304 Don't you DARE rescue this. #toolate & #inprogress!

305 So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the True Patriot Heroes? Who listed him there? Joe Manchin voted against the gun bill. Do you think we listed him as a Patriot Hero?

306 Delaying Obamacare until just before the midterm elections woudn't be a bad thing at all, especially considering that some tea party Republicans just put themselves solidly on record as opposing Obamacare.

307 This should not be construed as giving insurance companies carte blanche to do as they wish, either. There's no way I want any insurance companies writing any legislation. Unleash common sense, reality-based capitalism and watch what happens. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:15 PM (0HooB) My own opinion is that Medical "Insurance" should be outlawed. Make people pay their own bills and watch what happens to cost.

308 And where in the Constitution is this theft of private property allowed?


My chambers are the third door down the hall, on the right.

309

wouldn't it be funny if Rove learned a thing or two from the progs and is having posters troll conservative websites to astroturf for establishment positions and candidates

 

and by funny I mean fucked up

310 For the 10th time....you get around this by defining catastrophic in terms of money, not in terms of procedures.

Oh, like the AMT.    Yeah, that won't get out of hand, ever.

311

So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the
True Patriot Heroes?

 

Stopped clocks, etc.

 

One vote and some pretty words that make the right conservative sounds aren't enough to get out of RINO Hell.  We've had enough of that shit from the likes of Juan McLame and Grahamnesty.      Sure,    they   say pretty things and get us all buttered up    so we vote for them,    but   then    they    stab us in the back   when they're comfortably elected.

 

Fuck that.

312 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:18 PM (0LHZx) Disaster waiting to happen. We already have a populace who confuses "health care" with "health financing." And leaders who continue this confusion such as Sec. of HHS who says "that's not health insurance it's mortgage insurance." No shit Sherlock, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Insurance is risk hedging. So you set the number at $50k. 6 months later a sob story comes along and says "but that bankrupted me." So the voters lower it to $40k. Lather, rise, repeat, single payer.

313 And where in the Constitution is this theft of private property allowed? My chambers are the third door down the hall, on the right. Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts, Still Growing In Office at October 22, 2013 01:24 PM (8ZskC)
According to Kelo, the Fifth Amendment.

314 For the 10th time....you get around this by defining catastrophic in terms of money, not in terms of procedures. You set a limit. $10K a year, $20K, whatever. Up to that limit, you are responsible for the cost, either by paying cash or having insurance. Above that limit, the govt pays for it. So birth control, unless it costs $21K a year, will not be covered. To be bumped down to $1k a year. BET. ON. IT.

315 My own opinion is that Medical "Insurance" should be outlawed. Make people pay their own bills and watch what happens to cost. Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 22, 2013 01:24 PM (bb5+k) _____________ People forgo medical treatment? Do I win a prize?

316 305 Bevel L,


you'd think they'd grasp "no means no" eh?

317

So is Rubio now officially back to being a RINO Enemy of The People a
mere month after voting for Defund and having his name listed among the
True Patriot Heroes?

 

 

Yes. Absolutely.
Next question.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 22, 2013 01:17 PM (8ZskC)

 

Ditto.  I think shock collars to stop dogs barking is horrible and cruel.  I, however, have no problem with blowtorching a GOPer who steps out of line.  Maybe it'll learn the bastiches a lesson.

318 I am completely comfortable with a person ,who can't master the treacherous waters of the copy paste, dictating healthcare policy to me. 

319 216 Whether we like it or not, American society is moving towards a "government should pay for everything" mentality. Single payer is likely within my lifetime. The way to avoid a 100% single payer system is something like catastrophic single payer coverage. We will never have a 100% free market based insurance system again. That's just reality. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:02 PM (0LHZx) ------------------------ The big problem with that is the definition of "catastrophic," which will expand rapidly. Also, there will be a huge bureaucracy "needed" to manage this. How about a simple rule that anyone who spends more than 10% of their income on healthcare in any year will be reimbursed via the IRS? There would be a list of excluded items (such as purely elective cosmetic surgery.) Very simple to manage. Anything else can be handled by the free market. If anyone wants to buy insurance or a health-care-plan, fine. Let the states take over Medicaid.

320 Marco Rubio...Hey, We Should Throw Obama A Lifeline On ObamaCare As I said on a recent podcast, the GOP message is going to become "fix" ObamaCare. Here's Marco "Amnesty" Rubio. The widespread problems with the ObamaCare website are generating a new backlash in Congress, with Sen. Marco Rubio planning to introduce legislation that would delay the health law's individual mandate until the technical failures are addressed. The Florida senator discussed the plan Tuesday morning in an interview with Fox News. He said it would be "prudent" to delay the requirement on individuals to buy health insurance -- set to kick in early next year -- until users can consistently access the main website. "How are you going to go after people next year ... if the thing you're forcing them to buy isn't available to buy?" he asked, saying the site is "not working." This was always the problem with the "delay" strategy. Obama needs a delay. Why in the world would you give him what he needs? Allah had a post last night saying Ted Cruz is rejecting the "let it burn" approach to ObamaCare. Watch the clip at the end of the post, I'm not sure where Cruz stands on this. Yes, he rejects the notion that the GOP should try an profit politically from the suffering ObamaCare is imposing. That's just basic politics. You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". What Cruz doesn't do in that quote (though he may later) is what Rubio does...suggest an affirmative course of action to make ObamaCare "better". There's some strategic ambiguity (at least for now) in Cruz's statement that Rubio's action lacks. As for the individual mandate, Conn Caroll makes the case that unlike the employer mandate, the administration probably does have the legal authority to delay it unilaterally. Delaying the mandate is more a political problem than a policy one. It was never going to be strong enough to force enough young people into the system to prevent the actuarial "death spiral" of poor and sick people signing up, while not enough young and healthy ones paid the bills. Keep an eye on the GOP as talk will increasingly be about "fixing" ObamaCare. The question is, will they "fix" it within the current framework of the ACA or demand that the "fix" be repeal and replace? The GOP better choose wisely. The wrong choice (fixing the ACA) will do far more damage to their chances of keeping the House and winning Senate seats in 2014 than the shutdown ever could. Added: People are arguing in the comments that this is smart politics from Rubio because he knows the Democrats will never agree to it and it makes the GOP look like the good guys. I disagree. The GOP already wanted to delay this but was told it was a bunch of "anarchists" and "you can't change the law of the land". Rubio's concession won't win over any converts who don't already know the GOP opposes ObamaCare and wants it delayed. What will happen is the Democrats will come back and say, "Of course there are problems and we need to work in a bi-partisan way to improve the ACA. The GOP should help us do that". Then the ball will bounce back to Rubio who already has admitted people are being hurt and the question will be, "You only propose delaying things, why not help fix it? By your own admission not doing so will hurt people. Why are you and the GOP putting your political goals ahead of helping people?" Once the GOP gets involved in "fixing" or "helping" with ObamaCare the question is how and the onus goes to the GOP to "do something". Just stay out of it. As the saying goes, when your opponent is making a mistake, let them. Related(ish) because I don't want to write a whole post on it: There are some in the GOP that simply do not get the goal is not to create "a governing majority" if the policy results are going to be like they were from 2001-2006. If Republicans think that acting like an opposition party when they are in opposition, why would anyone think they will be a truly conservative majority? Their track record isn't very good. Unless conservatives believe there will be real changes in the GOP the next time they get control, they aren't going to get behind the idea of playing ball with Team GOP. Posted by: DrewM. at 12:05 PM Comments 1 I don't get that, either. Forget the delay - in implementation and mandates. If this is bad as it's supposed to be, let America know it... before the 2014 elections. Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 22, 2013 12:07 PM (gA69l) 2 What a fucking idiot Rubio is. We OFFERED to delay Obamacare rollout.. we actually INSISTED on it as a demand. The Dems and Obama specifically rejected it. Fuck 'em. They OWN it. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:07 PM (f9c2L) 3 I vote that they "fix" it the same way they fix dogs at the vet. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:07 PM (0HooB) 4 Moron. Posted by: NCKate at October 22, 2013 12:09 PM (83KrV) 5 And seriously, enough with Rubio already. Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 22, 2013 12:09 PM (gA69l) 6 Why does grilled cheese and tomato soup go so well together? Also, RINO! Posted by: ASK21 at October 22, 2013 12:09 PM (hppbQ) 7 Just change your name to Marco McCain, already, asshole. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at October 22, 2013 12:09 PM (zF6Iw) 8 The Republicans should just hammer the repeal drum and then offer their own plan. Let the current disaster keep rolling until the Democrats start peeling off. Posted by: Chris at October 22, 2013 12:09 PM (lS0gj) 9 The Florida senator discussed the plan Tuesday morning in an interview with Fox News. Did someone say something? Or was that just the wind blowing? Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (wOFj+) 10 Fuck Marco Rubio. Let the people get a good taste of this shit sandwich before they go to the polls in 2014. Letting the sheeple know just how little the Democrat party and their healthcare bill care about them is the only cure here. There is not one Republican vote for the AHCA, and the GOP needs to sit back and let the suck flow. Posted by: OldSailor88 at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (2oNjs) 11 I just want to see impeachment and resignations from both sides. I know, I might as well wish for healthcare.gov to work. What a cluster. Whose fault is all of this? Ours Posted by: JB at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (K/J3u) 12 I vote that they "fix" it the same way they fix dogs at the vet.>> Cut it's balls off or the Old Yeller fix? Posted by: The French at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (wrS2o) 13 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". .......... This is the wrong approach. You now say: We wanted to delay Obamacre. the Dems rejected it. Obama refused to even talk about it. We shut down the government to force shutting it down. The Dems wouldn't budge. You say that every day until the elections next year. Every. Day. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (f9c2L) 14 Delaying ObamaCare is all extreme and stuff. It's politically impossible, I'm told. It most certainly shouldn't be tied to 'fixing' the website, because when the website is fixed that declares that ObamaCare is fixed (which the GOP is inching toward that position anyway). Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 22, 2013 12:10 PM (uhAkr) 15 If there's an alternative that will damage the GOP, do no good for the country, and benefit the Democrats, that's the one the GOP will choose. It's like a unidirectional flow chart. Posted by: joncelli at October 22, 2013 12:12 PM (RD7QR) 16 You say that every day until the elections next year. Every. Day. Two Words: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 22, 2013 12:12 PM (wOFj+) 17 That's just basic politics. You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". Why not? You are never going to win those votes anyway. 8 yr old's stupidity in an adult SHOULD be painful. As painful as possible. Hopefully they will learn from it. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:12 PM (h1D+w) 18 Hey, I'm willing to throw them an anchor. I'm a giver. Posted by: Parker at October 22, 2013 12:12 PM (YkW3i) 19 Mitch McConnell, lousy corrupt hack. It is despicable that the GOP has him in a position of power. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 22, 2013 12:13 PM (uhAkr) 20 Here's another thing.. Saying you can "fix" Obamacare admits there is some good in it. You give voters one choice: If you want to get rid of Obamacare, elect Republicans. We can do nothing until we get back into power. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:13 PM (f9c2L) 21 Whose fault is all of this? Ours Truth. Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 22, 2013 12:13 PM (gA69l) 22 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this. Posted by: blaster at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (4+AaH) 23 Marco RINO Rubio has been dead to me since he jumped on the amnesty bus. He can kiss my ass. He represents everything that is wrong with the Republican Party. Posted by: Vic at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (zZbNF) 24 Repeal and replace with free markets, make personal health insurance like car insurance (portable across state lines), clamp down mercilessly on frivolous lawsuits and then create some sort of mechanism to accommodate the high-risk pool. Make the laws clear so everyone knows what the rules are and enforce them vigorously. (This'd also reduce the cost of compliance). This should not be construed as giving insurance companies carte blanche to do as they wish, either. There's no way I want any insurance companies writing any legislation. Unleash common sense, reality-based capitalism and watch what happens. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:15 PM (0HooB) 25 The truth of the matter is that the Republican party LOVES Obamacare. They arent going to get rid of it anymore than the Dems are. Their "opposition" isn't sincere, just a tactic for political gain. Posted by: Mr Green Jeans at October 22, 2013 12:15 PM (ugAvG) 26 Ever notice that every time McCain and Schumer wiggle their fingers, Rubio's lips move? Posted by: kbdabear at October 22, 2013 12:15 PM (aTXUx) 27 This was always the problem with the "delay" strategy. Obama needs a delay. Why in the world would you give him what he needs? wouldnt a delay mean that the healthy people would stay away because they dont need insurance, while the sick and expensive sign up? how can this be good for the system? i really loath rubeo, but im not seeing him doing obummer any favors here, drew. Posted by: The Awkward Turtle at October 22, 2013 12:15 PM (aKT+H) 28 Keep an eye on the GOP as talk will increasingly be about "fixing" ObamaCare. The question is, will they "fix" it within the current framework of the ACA or demand that the "fix" be repeal and replace? Drew, you know the answer to this one. Fast-forward 8 years (I would say longer, but the collapse of the whole of the welfare state is only 10 years out). El PRL will be clamoring to add vision and dental to PlaceboCare. Doubt me? Look no further than Medicare Part D. Posted by: steveegg at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (o44nj) 29 There's no winning this fight. I hope I'm wrong, but there is no way to square the circle. Republicans would have to propose some kind of alternative healthcare entitlement, and what kind of a plan is that? In the end the Math will come for us all. Posted by: Eton Cox at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (QCc6B) 30 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this. Almost the entire GOP Senate demanded it too, said a delay was reich-wing extremism and that the TEA party was purely evil. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (uhAkr) 31 I really don't like those three words "repeal and replace". It's a lousy message, congress can't be trusted to design a replacement. Repeal is the only word you need. Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (epxV4) 32 It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. Posted by: Guy trying to buy Healthinsurance at Healthcare . gov... at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB) 33 My Obamacare website isn't working. Let's get a cell phone company on this problem stat. Posted by: President Dumbass at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (KHo8t) 34 Shouldn't a party that constantly shoots themselves in the dick sooner or later run out of dick ? I think the nicklefuckers must be related to starfish. Posted by: ScoggDog ... LiB at October 22, 2013 12:17 PM (uRcOW) 35 Of course. Why do I get the sense that within a week the screw up of Obamacare will rest firmly at the GOPs feet. I mean I know some in the media are already writing stories intimating it is all the GOPs fault, but now I sense that our representatives are willing to put on that yoke and run with it. Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at October 22, 2013 12:17 PM (RZ8pf) 36 and Rubio, McCain, McConnell, wherever you are out there .... FUCK YOU TOO!! Posted by: Lt Col Frank Slade at October 22, 2013 12:17 PM (aTXUx) 37 Cut it's balls off or the Old Yeller fix? Well, considering what we're dealing with, maybe the Old Yeller fix would be better. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:17 PM (0HooB) 38 wouldnt a delay mean that the healthy people would stay away because they dont need insurance, while the sick and expensive sign up? how can this be good for the system? i really loath rubeo, but im not seeing him doing obummer any favors here, drew. With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (h1D+w) 39 Rubio turned Rovian in what seems to be record time. Probably better than Crist, but that ain't saying anything. By the by, got an email from the Hillary! for Presnident people. Next week is Hillary!s birthday, so let's all practice: "Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you I hope it's your last one Happy birthday to you" Posted by: mallfly at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (bJm7W) 40 Marco's sekrit skeletons in his closet must be the dangling horse head he wakes up to each morning. Something changed him...or, he lied to us from the start. Either way, I think he will not be re-elected due to his crossing the aisle and amnesty drum. Fool me once... Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Redneck Queen of Tea Party, Eleventy District at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (baL2B) 41 When do the GOP Establishment shills come on to tell us that Rubio is a fuckin' genius? Posted by: kbdabear at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (aTXUx) 42 2 - No, Jerry. The fact that you don't want them to does not change the fact that Republicans are ALREADY part owners of Obamacare. Rubio is indeed an idiot, but he also realizes if they don't fix this, it will be hung around his neck as much as it will the Dems. You can rail against it, gnash your teeth all you want. Doesn't change reality. You bought Obamacare. You own it. Enjoy! Posted by: BurtTC at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (TOk1P) 43 32 It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. Posted by: Guy trying to buy Healthinsurance at Healthcare . gov... at October 22, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB) Pick up hammer of smiting. Posted by: joncelli at October 22, 2013 12:19 PM (RD7QR) 44 Whose fault is all of this? Ours Posted by: JB You're a Democrat? Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 22, 2013 12:19 PM (cb5D2) 45 The GOP obviously doesn't really oppose Ogabecare like the mules opposed Iraq.... good to know Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 12:19 PM (9jfyN) 46 I'll just reiterate Iowahawk's twitter comment about Washington, D.C.: "Washington is a horde of attacking zombies. Republicans are just the slow-moving ones." Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at October 22, 2013 12:19 PM (PMGbu) 47 I think Rubio is trying to be strategic. He knows there no chance in hell this will work, and is just grinding the point about the individual mandate delay into everyone's minds. That the WH will never go for it makes them look like unreasonable jackholes. I think that's the point Rubio's trying to make. Plus....if by any chance this DOES happen, the money that was supposed to come in with the mandates to prop up o-care never happens which causes the whole thing to collapse. Either way, I think we have the advantage. Posted by: EC at October 22, 2013 12:19 PM (GQ8sn) 48 Rubio wants to reward the democrats who just humiliated him by giving them the one thing they need to prevent a debacle next November. Man, this guy is a brilliant strategist. Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 22, 2013 12:20 PM (79zi+) 49 I thought the posts during Ace's vacation were supposed to be light? Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 22, 2013 12:20 PM (23Kgq) 50 I see Rubio's strategy as sound. After all, any delay that Obama wants, Obama will get, simply because he can. This way Obama is forced to either sign legislation admitting the huge cock-up Obamacare is (which will be especially groovy to see), or veto it and come across as the selfish self-centered child that he is. Rubio is dong nothing more than proposing to discomfit Obama and the Dems in Congress. I hope he doesn't over reach on this as it has the potential of putting them all in a bind. Posted by: Pigilito at October 22, 2013 12:20 PM (yw6Yn) 51 I've introduced legislation to make the FEMA camps a much more enjoyable experience! Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:20 PM (aTXUx) 52 ahhh the ole "reach around" Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (zOTsN) 53 "How are you going to go after people next year ... if the thing you're forcing them to buy isn't available to buy?" he asked And his solution to this is to fix it so you CAN force them to buy? That speaks volumes about Marco Rubio. Posted by: t-bird at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (FcR7P) 54 With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (h1D+w) dont underestimate the power of free shit. there are still subsidies to be had for high cost, ill people. Posted by: The Awkward Turtle at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (aKT+H) 55 Dondi betrayed me. I will not forget that. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (0HooB) 56 I thought the posts during Ace's vacation were supposed to be light? Nope. Just non-controversial. Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (PMGbu) 57 Of course. Why do I get the sense that within a week the screw up of Obamacare will rest firmly at the GOPs feet. I mean I know some in the media are already writing stories intimating it is all the GOPs fault, but now I sense that our representatives are willing to put on that yoke and run with it. Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle ---------------- Well..., sure. I mean, it's like the debt, because Republicans. Posted by: MSM at October 22, 2013 12:21 PM (aDwsi) 58 Marco RINO Rubio has been dead to me since he jumped on the amnesty bus. He can kiss my ass. He represents everything that is wrong with the Republican Party. Posted by: Vic at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (zZbNF) And Vic should know. After all, if it wasn't for him, ol' Honest Abe would still be known as "Hard Drinkin' Lincoln." Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at October 22, 2013 12:22 PM (zF6Iw) 59 I think Rubio is trying to be strategic. He knows there no chance in hell this will work, and is just grinding the point about the individual mandate delay into everyone's minds. That the WH will never go for it makes them look like unreasonable jackholes. Unless you give them an out by offering to wear this albatross... Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:22 PM (h1D+w) 60 Democrats have demographics and the media to win elections. Republicans have only reality. If people vote for this shit...(and they did, by re-electing Obama), then the only way to get them to learn is crash and burn. Don't delay Obamacare. Let it charge, full steam ahead. Posted by: Mike at October 22, 2013 12:23 PM (r/L31) 61 How much is the "fix" to something that was supposed to be working -- after 3 years and 7x the original budget spent -- costing taxpayers? That point isn't being brought up enough IMO. Just because Bernanke still has checks doesn't mean there is money in the account. Posted by: Dancing Queen at October 22, 2013 12:23 PM (FDGeg) 62 Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something? There's got to be more to this than meets the eye. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (u2a4R) 63 the genius of Obamacare is that requires young people to choose to forego the equivalent of a new care to pay for the sick and the old. it's foolproof. Posted by: X at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (KHo8t) 64 13: Agree, except we didn't shut down the government. The republicans wanted to negotiate with the dems over Obamacare, including specifically a delay of the individual mandate. Because Reid and Obama refused to even talk about it, the government was shut down. Hopefully, more people will get it now. Senator Rubio - please do not offer another escape hatch to the dems on this. Posted by: LASue at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (gjIQF) 65 Lemme guess, Rubio's bill is co-sponsored by Jeff Flake, Juan McCain and Pretty Lindsey Graham? Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (0LHZx) 66 If people vote for this shit...(and they did, by re-electing Obama), then the only way to get them to learn is crash and burn. The last one was stolen. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (0HooB) 67 "22 Republicans should say that they tried to get a delay but that the President and Democrats demanded this. Posted by: blaster at October 22, 2013 12:14 PM (4+AaH)" That is right. Republicans were even willing to take the politically unpopular act of letting Obama shut down the government in order to delay Obamacare but Obama refused to negotiate. It is really a shame that Obama never had any executive experience before he became President. He might have learned better how to negotiate. Being in charge is different than being a Community Organizer. It requires a different set of skills which President Obama is having to learn on the job. But he's doing the best that he can, bless his heart. Stuff you can say to your relatives at Thanksgiving. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 22, 2013 12:25 PM (q1sF4) 68 People voted for these assholes, so let them get it good and hard. Reminds me of a classic. Captain: You gonna get used to wearing them chains after a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listening to them clinking, 'cause they gonna remind you what I been saying for your own good. Luke: I wish you'd stop being so good to me, Cap'n. Captain: Don't you ever talk that way to me. (pause, then hitting him) NEVER! NEVER! (Luke rolls down hill; to other prisoners) What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. Posted by: The Jackhole at October 22, 2013 12:25 PM (nTgAI) 69 Don't delay, keep expectations cranked way up so they keep throwing more and more programmers at the problem. Because they (the Democrats as project managers) are SO smart. Posted by: t-bird at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (FcR7P) 70 Once again, a RINO snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. Somebody remind me again why I'm supposed to back this party. Posted by: ScoggDog ... LiB at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (uRcOW) 71 "How are you going to go after people next year ... if the thing you're forcing them to buy isn't available to buy?" he asked, saying the site is "not working." ... this hasn't been a problem for the EPA. Federal regulations can be maddening, but none more so than a current one that demands oil refiners use millions of gallons of a substance, cellulosic ethanol, that does not exist. "As ludicrous as that sounds, it's fact," says Charles Drevna, who represents refiners. "If it weren't so frustrating and infuriating, it would be comical." And Tom Pyle of the Institute of Energy Research says, "the cellulosic biofuel program is the embodiment of government gone wild." Posted by: Rachel Carson at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (e8kgV) 72 Offer a delay in the mandate. But make it's reinstatement conditional on a yes vote from both Houses of Congress. Posted by: ThomasD at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (FA+FN) 73 This is just absurd. You can't fix a ship that is listing 40 degrees to port, on fire, with the cpatain practicing his wedge shots. President Awesome and his Enlightened Clown Posse own this thing, lock, stock and barrel. Let them deal with it. And Sen. Rubio--yeah, you kinda blew it there rubbing elbows with the gargoyle from New York. Sit down. You're done. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (659DL) 74 62 Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something? There's got to be more to this than meets the eye. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM No, Rubio smashed through the whole kennel with a bus Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:26 PM (aTXUx) 75 Can Rubio be this stupid? I don't think so. The only other possibility is he's playing for the other side. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (0LHZx) 76 You can't fix stupid. Posted by: wth at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (wAQA5) 77 *** You have died *** Would you like to start over, restore a saved position or end this session of Zork? (Type RESTART, RESTORE or QUIT) /Restore I don't understand that /Restart I don't understand that /Quit Be advised that under Federal Law, not having Health insurance will lead to fines and other penalties. Thankyou; HHS Posted by: Guy trying to buy Healthinsurance at Healthcare . gov... at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (lZBBB) 78 I'm torn between letting it run in full and letting it implode on it's own, HOWEVER, with most Federal Programs if we don't get rid of it ASAP we will be stuck with it for ever. Damned of we and Damned if we don't. Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (t3UFN) 79 Did Rubio run over Drew's dog or something? There's got to be more to this than meets the eye. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (u2a4R) That was his dog? I thought that was his cat. Here, let me back up and run it over agai...er...check to see what it is. Posted by: Sen. Rube at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (o44nj) 80 But make it's reinstatement conditional on a yes vote from both Houses of Congress. 2/3s of both. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 22, 2013 12:28 PM (/g5vp) 81 WTF ails these people? Posted by: backhoe at October 22, 2013 12:28 PM (ULH4o) 82 You can't fix stupid. Posted by: wth at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (wAQA5) No but apparently you can elect it President. Sigh Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 22, 2013 12:28 PM (t3UFN) 83 What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. Posted by: The Jackhole at October 22, 2013 12:25 PM Now I can be a nice guy or I can be one mean sumbitch. It's all up to you Posted by: Warden McCain at October 22, 2013 12:28 PM (aTXUx) 84 70 ScoggDogg, because if you don't the soialist program slinging, amnesty loving retards will have won..... or something. Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 12:28 PM (9jfyN) 85 Being in charge is different than being a Community Organizer Agitator. It requires a different set of skills which President Obama is having to learn on the job. But he's doing the best that he can, bless his heart. Stuff you can say to your relatives at Thanksgiving. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole An 'umble suggestion, m'lord. Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (cb5D2) 86 The faster you dummies realize this is what we want for you, the better off you will be. Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (oFCZn) 87 Zero & Reid won't allow a Republican to delay "0"care and I suspect Reid and Cruz know this. What better way to guarantee that the Dems ride this all the way to the bottom? Posted by: rwven at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (sKdrw) 88 Rubio shot himself in the ass with amnesty, and now he's shooting himself in the foot with this. All he's got to do is shoot himself in the other foot with gun control and he'll have the RINO trifecta! Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (4df7R) 89 I'm torn between letting it run in full and letting it implode on it's own, HOWEVER, with most Federal Programs if we don't get rid of it ASAP we will be stuck with it for ever. Damned of we and Damned if we don't. Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 22, 2013 12:27 PM (t3UFN) Or as the great prophet of DOOM, Monty, would say if I were he, "We are terminally Bo(eh)ned." Posted by: steveegg at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (o44nj) 90 Drew you are so remarkable dense sometimes...and prone to contradiction earlier positions. Or perhaps you are so committed to the ideological side of politics that your spurn matters of strategy and tactics as a kind of moral pollution or something. The Dems cannot accept a delay of the mandate because that funds Obamacare. They will thus have to vote no. Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness. Posted by: Jason at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (6VB4r) 91 No delay! No "fixes"! Make the Democrats own the whole mess before the 2014 elections. Posted by: cool breeze at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (A+/8k) 92 What a total buffoon. By the way- feeling flaccid GOP? You could not get Obama to give this up in the debt/shutdown negotiation. But now its a GOOD idea? Good luck selling that to all the people with a WTF look on their faces. Posted by: Marcus at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (GGCsk) 93 When all you have is a Hammer, everything looks like a Nail... When all you are is a Legislator, everything must be fixed through Legislation... Republicans have failed... they are looking for a Win... proof that they could do SOMTHING.... Even if it helps put chains on us... Next up? Amnesty.... Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:31 PM (lZBBB) 94 I kind of like the idea of delaying Obamacare for a year. In private industry, a major mistake by management hurts because it costs money. For government, it doesn't matter because they can just throw money at it. That's our money. Delay this by a year and we'll have a new Senate. Then we can work on getting rid of this. If we insist it gets pushed through now, people will think they're past the worst of it and start to find things they like about it. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:31 PM (u2a4R) 95 The plane boss, the plane. Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:31 PM (ujMoa) 96 Jason you are dense you think they care about going into the red over it? wake up they want this to fail for single payer Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:32 PM (zOTsN) 97 This is just absurd. You can't fix a ship that is listing 40 degrees to port, on fire, with the cpatain practicing his wedge shots. Hey now, I need thepractice! I told Tiger I'd be able to break 110 by the end of my second term. Posted by: Captain Hosel Rocket at October 22, 2013 12:32 PM (BrQrN) 98 "With a delay, NO ONE signs up. No one tastes the shit sandwhich. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:18 PM (h1D+w)" You know what is the problem with this shit sandwich? There is no cilantro. I'm going to make sure that you get plenty of cilantro with your shit sandwich. Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:32 PM (q1sF4) 99 The faster you dummies realize this is what we want for you, the better off you will be. Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:29 PM (oFCZn) And by "better off", we mean "earlier to your deaths". OINK! Posted by: The Bipartisan Party-In-Government at October 22, 2013 12:32 PM (o44nj) 100 90 Jason, right Marco "mini McCain" Rubio is backing what led to the shutdown...which uh McConnell swore he'd never back ever... Ogabe shut down the govt rather than delay... "smart" Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 12:32 PM (9jfyN) 101 You see, when the businesses took American jobs overseas they were astonished how the could offer zero benefits to workers. After a decade or so they got cranky they still had to do it here. That's where we came in. They paid us to shaft you up the ass with this healthcare bill. They get to dump you on the exchange, we get more power and a bigger government, and you get a shit sandwich. It's working out pretty well so far. Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:33 PM (oFCZn) 102 By the way- feeling flaccid GOP? You could not get Obama to give this up in the debt/shutdown negotiation. But now its a GOOD idea? Because the GOP is impotent, they are going back to peanut gallery mode. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 22, 2013 12:33 PM (/g5vp) 103 86 - Wuh??? Republicans and Democrats working together for their own self-interests, with no regard for the actual people of this nation? That's crazy talk, that is. Posted by: BurtTC at October 22, 2013 12:33 PM (TOk1P) 104 Would you like a refill Senor? Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:34 PM (ujMoa) 105 "91 No delay! No "fixes"! Make the Democrats own the whole mess before the 2014 elections. Posted by: cool breeze at October 22, 2013 12:30 PM (A+/8k)" As they like to tell us, it's the law! Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 22, 2013 12:34 PM (q1sF4) 106 jwest awesome plan lets take it off the table so it wont be a factor in the 2014 elections WIN!!!! why I see it now I am sure the media will cooperate with this genius strategy Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:34 PM (zOTsN) 107 Look out! We're pulling up the ladder! Posted by: The GOP at October 22, 2013 12:34 PM (Dwehj) 108 Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness. Uh sure, absolutely. Hey, did you see what Kim Kardashian wore last night? Posted by: The Average Vote at October 22, 2013 12:34 PM (BrQrN) 109 Perhaps talk of 'fixing it' it is to help to fix in the mind of the people that it is actually broken. You don't have to pass anything. You just make attempts to fix it that are unpalatable to the Dems. Then you are pragmatic and they are obstructionist defenders of a broken system. Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at October 22, 2013 12:35 PM (SO2Q 110 Zero & Reid won't allow a Republican to delay "0"care and I suspect Reid and Cruz know this. What better way to guarantee that the Dems ride this all the way to the bottom? As an "R"? Keep your mouth shut & stay out of the way. The embodiment of Let. It. Burn. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:35 PM (h1D+w) 111 Just do what we tell you. It's not like you're going to do anything anyway you fat, ball cap wearing pigs. Just sit in front of the television and watch your little shows. We're in charge now. Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:35 PM (oFCZn) 112 The game is full on fascism. See nakedcapitalism.com for details. Posted by: Huggy at October 22, 2013 12:35 PM (o00SF) 113 I lost my shinebox again. Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:36 PM (ujMoa) 114 90 - Could someone translate this into English? I tried plugging it into Google Translate, but they don't have a button for "stupid." Posted by: BurtTC at October 22, 2013 12:36 PM (TOk1P) 115 Is DrewM laying down another Grand Inquisition of Conservatism? It must be a weekday. Posted by: Lou at October 22, 2013 12:37 PM (VrJUC) 116 mark o rubio needs to go away-e-o Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at October 22, 2013 12:37 PM (8JJ6O) 117 Can we have a thread where we just bash Dems? Posted by: blaster at October 22, 2013 12:37 PM (4+AaH) 118 Voters in Flori-dah need to make Marco a one-term Senator... Mac and Lindsey have gotten to him and made him into a RINO Posted by: Pimp Daddy Welfare at October 22, 2013 12:37 PM (Jls4P) 119 I'm pretty much done with the GOP. Unless there's a truly massive sea-change in the party, I can't see supporting them. Stab in the front or stab in the back? You still get stabbed either way. Posted by: Null at October 22, 2013 12:38 PM (xjpRj) 120 117 - No. Posted by: BurtTC at October 22, 2013 12:38 PM (TOk1P) 121 "94 I kind of like the idea of delaying Obamacare for a year. In private industry, a major mistake by management hurts because it costs money. For government, it doesn't matter because they can just throw money at it. That's our money. Delay this by a year and we'll have a new Senate. Then we can work on getting rid of this. If we insist it gets pushed through now, people will think they're past the worst of it and start to find things they like about it. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:31 PM (u2a4R)" We tried to delay it for a year. Remember? That was one of the options that Congress proposed and that Obama rejected. Then the wiser heads among the GOP prevailed over the wacko birds and ended all that government shutdown nonsense. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 22, 2013 12:38 PM (q1sF4) 122 "lets take it off the table so it wont be a factor in the 2014 elections" You think everyone, including the republicans, are going to forget about this through the election? Why do you think the liberals are pushing so hard to get this thing going? They know that once you give someone something, you can never take it away. Yes, a lot of people are getting fucked on Obamacare, but a lot of other people are getting onboard the gravy train. I think we can remind the right group at election timehow this program was managed. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:38 PM (u2a4R) 123 Look, the American people just want free gub'mint shit. You can't fight city hall! Posted by: The GOP at October 22, 2013 12:39 PM (Dwehj) 124 Lets see two alternatives occur 1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate hikes and the law's implosion. Republicans claim victory and ask why shutdown occurred if this was to happen anyway 2) voted down. Republicans get to rub in that little people get no waivers. I don't see how it works before penalty comes due. By republicans proposing they make a waiver less likely and further tie Obama to it politically. Posted by: Jollyroger at October 22, 2013 12:39 PM (t06LC) 125 Aw, don't fret, little wingnutz. Soon as I'm up for re-election, I'll start talking your Tea Party language again. Long as you send me those sweet, sweet donations. Adios for now! Posted by: Marco Rubio at October 22, 2013 12:39 PM (7ObY1) 126 Oh, and by the way - you know who also opposes letting Obamacare go into effect unhindered and doing incredible damage to the Democrats? That goddamn liberal RINO traitor Ted Cruz. Posted by: Lou at October 22, 2013 12:40 PM (VrJUC) 127 jwest you seem to have forgotten that when is comes to elections, we don't control the narrative. War on Womyn!!!!! Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:40 PM (zOTsN) 128 115 Lou, nope...this is a genius "Republican" move Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 12:40 PM (9jfyN) 129 The Dems cannot accept a delay of the mandate because that funds Obamacare. They will thus have to vote no. Rubio is simply playing smart politics: forcing the Dems to circle the wagons and vote against something that, to the average voter, seems to be a point of fundamental fairness. Posted by: Jason As our betters on the Left reminded us just last week, the ACA is already funded. And the results of the cave-in give O-ring a blank checkbook until Feb. That $500 billion taken from Medicare wasn't just a bug. Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 22, 2013 12:40 PM (cb5D2) 130 There's some strategic ambiguity (at least for now) in Cruz's statement that Rubio's action lacks. Gee, what a surprise. Posted by: Bethesda Game Studios at October 22, 2013 12:40 PM (SY2Kh) 131 The last one was stolen. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:24 PM (0HooB) ************************ Agreed. But enough idiots not only voted for him to enable the theft, enough accepted unquestionably the "results" as the MSM dictated them. Posted by: Dancing Queen at October 22, 2013 12:41 PM (FDGeg) 132 C'mon, it's over. The only way you're getting rid of us or this thing is through a revolution and it's not going to happen. You're too fat, too old, and too distracted by bullshit we've foisted on you over the last 50 years. We own every institution in this country. The first one of you old farts that starts trouble will be destroyed in seconds. Now pay for your fucking insurance or we'll take all of your shit. Posted by: The GOP/DEM Alliance at October 22, 2013 12:41 PM (oFCZn) 133 damned sock Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 22, 2013 12:41 PM (SY2Kh) 134 Marco has really been a disappointment after joining that nasty gang. Parents should warn their children not to hang out with guys like McCain and Graham. Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (oDCMR) 135 114 90 - Could someone translate this into English? I tried plugging it into Google Translate, but they don't have a button for "stupid." Just remember...your spurn matters. A lot. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (7ObY1) 136 This post was just the sort of bland I was looking for. Like a 3pm trip to Bob Evans. Posted by: Warden at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (bmp0d) 137 thunderb, #127: "we don't control the narrative. "War on Womyn!!!!!" Hell, binders full of' em. Posted by: JPS at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (qOHaT) 138 Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything? The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop. If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless. Also, is there not a separate failure mode for Obamacare which no one is mentioning... namely that insurance companies will all opt out of the exchanges as the death spiral becomes apparent? Apparently they are not forced to participate in the exchanges. I am not sure if they can continue signing up people outside the exchanges or if the ACA rules still apply in that case, but they could certainly sit on their customer base and not sign anyone new up as they watch their competition burn to the ground. Many companies are not participating so there must be some reason they chose not to do so. I suspect many of the participating companies have been promised a bailout if things go badly. This is the usual method of getting companies to act against their interest as we saw with the mortgage market. Fascist countries always have these sorts of backstops for regime cronies. Posted by: Thatch at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (qYvEa) 139 Rubio and all the other establishment Republicans are the kind of guys who think if they pay the hot blonde's credit card bills and take the humiliating jobs in silence, she'll love them for their kindness. But she keeps hitting on the stud or cool guy right in front of you, knowing that if she doesn't end up going home with him, you'll still give her a ride Posted by: kbdabear at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (aTXUx) 140 1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate hikes and the law's implosion. Republicans claim victory and ask why shutdown occurred if this was to happen anyway 2) voted down. Republicans get to rub in that little people get no waivers. I don't see how it works before penalty comes due. By republicans proposing they make a waiver less likely and further tie Obama to it politically. Posted by: Jollyroger this is a better argument. However, even if it were to pass, I don't think McConnell or Boehner would be smart enough or articulate enough to ?claim victory". as to number 2, Carney said no less than six times yesterday that the administration will be pursuing "de facto" waiver by not assessing penalties until the website works Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:43 PM (zOTsN) 141 Oh..... and Rand Paul has submitted a Constitutional Amendment to Congress.... That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry.... I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly. Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:44 PM (lZBBB) 142 SCREW RUBIO! Saw yesterday that he's backing and endorsing Mitch McConnell's reelection.Just stack one more brick in the wall against Rubio. Posted by: Just me at October 22, 2013 12:45 PM (JpyJ1) 143 Thing is you can't just delay O-care and the day after it's delayed everything goes back to normal. All existing policies that were illegal under O-care won't all of a sudden be brought back for a year and then removed again. Insurance companies have been planning for this for years and won't unwind everything for a 1 year delay. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:45 PM (0LHZx) 144 Rubio needs to sit down and shut up. Republicans didn't vote for this CF; they have absolutely no reason whatsoever to try and "fix" it. The Democrats' fingerprints are all over the original bill - they own it; let them deal with the fall-out. The only "fix" I want to see from the Republicans is a full-out repeal of this disaster. Anything else can be proposed and implemented by the Democrats. Nancy and Harry wanted this - now they can choke on it. Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at October 22, 2013 12:46 PM (PZ6/M) 145 "Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything? The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop. If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless." BRAVO!!!!!!!! Posted by: Just me at October 22, 2013 12:47 PM (JpyJ1) 146 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:45 PM (0LHZx) We are already seeing lawsuits based on them delaying the Company mandate.... as the decision to delay it hurt companies who were already trying to comply with it... Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:47 PM (lZBBB) 147 135 114 90 - Could someone translate this into English? I tried plugging it into Google Translate, but they don't have a button for "stupid." Just remember...your spurn matters. A lot. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM (7ObY1) Oh yeeees...it must be saved for my little...friends...[insert maniacal laughter] Posted by: Harry Reid at October 22, 2013 12:47 PM (RD7QR) 148 1) this is voted on and passes. No mandate for a year, and because healthy people don't have to sign up they won't, leading to rate tax hikes and the law's implosionsuccess. This clusterfark will create more dem voters thus locking in a perpetual voting block of people getting free stuff. Posted by: Cicero Kid at October 22, 2013 12:47 PM (DHQv9) 149 Just like Democrats threw Bush a lifeline on the Iraq war, huh Marco? Posted by: Lizzy at October 22, 2013 12:47 PM (JRmiD) 150 Why are these idiots talking about replacing Obamacare with anything? The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop. If the Republicans think we want their version of oppression and market meddling more than the Democrat's version they are delusional and worthless. Posted by: Thatch To get DotGov out of HC, legislation has to be passed. Want an interstate insurance market? That's legislation. Want tax-deductability of HSA's? That's legislation. Ditto med malpractice caps and a host of other problems with the previous set of laws that turned our HC into a mess. That's what we mean by replace. Overturning O-Care doesn't change our HC system into a land of fucking sunshine. Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (cb5D2) 151 134 Marco has really been a disappointment after joining that nasty gang. Parents should warn their children not to hang out with guys like McCain and Graham. Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 22, 2013 12:42 PM Hey Marco, is that Lindsey's ring you're wearing? My folks were always putting him down, They said he came from the wrong side of town They told me he was bad, But I know he was sad That's why I fell for The Leader of the Gang Posted by: Marco and the RINO-La's at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (aTXUx) 152 A better PR move would be to introduce a repeal bill. Simple 1 sentence bill. It won't go anywhere of course, but a lot more people will agree with it than 6 months ago. And this is what counts now, the PR, not actual bills passing or not passing. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (0LHZx) 153 That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry.... I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly. Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:44 PM (lZBBB) Of course, the REAL story shouldn't be that he's proposed the amendment, but that he felt the amendment needed to be proposed. After all, the Constitution already covers this. "Equal rights under the law" doesn't mean "Except for the people who make the laws, because they're special." It shouldn't be necessary to amend the Constitution to remind the elected and appointed officials in our gubmint that they're bound by the law, too. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (4df7R) 154 147 - That's funny cuz Harry Reid is a pedophile. Posted by: BurtTC at October 22, 2013 12:49 PM (TOk1P) 155 EL PARTIDO STUPIDO Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (0LHZx) 156 "The entire point is to get the government out of healthcare, full stop." Realistically, we can't do that. Part of the reason is that half the republicans would revolt if you tried to take away their Medicare. The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic. In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment. All we are giving up is the tiny slice of the catastrophic pie that isn't already paid for by Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Admin. People who need catastrophic care who are below 65 (or 62), employed in a well paying job and are covered by private insurance is too small a group to fight over. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) 157 Marco Rubio can kiss my lovely rear-end. Posted by: Y-not at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (5H6zj) 158 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:48 PM (4df7R) Agree.... but he seems to understand some of the anger out here... and its a VERY astute Political move... One the GOP insiders will hate... Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (lZBBB) 159 Obama won't take the lifeline....he was willing to send the country past the debt limit and shut the government down forever for his "achievement". It is named after him, he will never defund it, he will never delay it (no matter how many lifelines you give him), and he will never change it (unless only Obama does the changing). It is on....ObamaCare or bust. Posted by: William Eaton at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (rLRIj) 160 Oh..... and Rand Paul has submitted a Constitutional Amendment to Congress.... That will force Congress, the President, and Judges, to obey and follow the Laws they force on the Citizenry.... I REALLY like this idea.... and it could bring Millions of angry voters to the polls next election if done correctly. I'm all in favor of this, too. I really want to hear Dims and RINOs defending their vote against this. After all, isn't it only fair? Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (0HooB) 161 157 Marco Rubio can kiss my lovely rear-end. Posted by: Y-not at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM You know the rules!!! Posted by: kbdabear at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (aTXUx) 162 If the GOP goes for tinkering with ACA to shore it up, then I'm going to have better things to do come November 2014. Sorry, am not interested in the dog food you are peddling. Posted by: Count de Monet at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (BAS5M) 163 Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) My..... you mean just give them a little of what they want, and add to entitlements.... What a .... Progressive.... solution.... Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (lZBBB) 164 If the GOP regains control of the Senate, who will the next Jim Jeffords be? Auditions are ongoing. Posted by: Furious George at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (yFb77) 165 Oh goodie! Another DremM post. Let's see what the #burnitdown folks are saying today.... Posted by: Jam at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (mJtuT) 166 The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic. In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment. GTF out "Grand Bargains" are neither and how, pray tell, are you going to get Reid and the JEF to negotiate? Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (zOTsN) 167 The better solution is to strike a grand bargain, giving the dem's their single payer system for catastrophic. In exchange, we get a free market HSAs for all non-catastrophic treatment. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) ___________ I've supported this idea for a long time. If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills. If you have a broken arm or have the flu or need birth control, you pay for it yourself or you have an insurance policy - PRIVATE INSURANCE - that pays for it. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (0LHZx) 168 Let it burn. IF the GOP helps with fixes they also want Obamacare so that they can control you if they ever take back power. Posted by: genew at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (Al3QW) 169 Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) Fuck off you big government loving socialist. Posted by: Buzzion at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (JfzEh) 170 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". >>> Except in the long run.....you do. BECAUSE THE SUFFERING IS THE LESSON. Let the voters suffer, even the low-info wastes of life in this country can put two and two together. It's called playing the long game. Posted by: trump at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (FbbJc) 171 Is Rubio forgetting that at least half the nation did not want this clusterfark in the first place? What planet is he living on? I really cannot figure him out. I don't see him politically "positioning" himself (for who? Independents?), so what is he really doing? Some will say he's staying true to his gut feelings, but they are all over the place, and inconsistent with what the people want - regardless of dem or repub. I'm lost on Rubio. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (IXrOn) 172 If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills. --------------- Why? Posted by: mama winger at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (P6QsQ) 173 The only way to fix Zerocare is to ditch Zerocare. Posted by: maddogg at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (xWW96) 174 Dear Rube-io, You might want to start by saying, "So, before the shutdown we'd offered the Senate and President a continuing resolution that funded the entire government with the exception of Obamacare, thefull implementation of which we would have delayed for a year. They repeatedly said no, leading to the lengthy shut down of the federal government. After seeing the ineffective and ultimately unuseable state of the Obamacare infrastructure, I want to ask Senator Reid and President Obama if they'd like to rethink their earlier decision." Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (4df7R) 175 It is on....ObamaCare or bust. Mr. Maths says "bust". Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (h1D+w) 176 164 If the GOP regains control of the Senate, who will the next Jim Jeffords be? Auditions are ongoing. Posted by: Furious George at October 22, 2013 12:51 PM (yFb77) _____________ You mean besides Juan McCain? I'm betting on either Flake or Rubio. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (0LHZx) 177 "You think everyone, including the republicans, are going to forget about this through the election?" Yes. The media can't tell people what to think but by flogging and spiking stories they can tell people what to think about. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (q1sF4) 178 Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:50 PM (u2a4R) Ah, here we go again with the "catastrophic government insurance." Remember though that this was the original goal of Social security, a catastrophic retirement insurance if you will. Just like SS, this would eventually be whittled down to single payer. Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 22, 2013 12:53 PM (GaqMa) 179 No, Jerry. The fact that you don't want them to does not change the fact that Republicans are ALREADY part owners of Obamacare. Rubio is indeed an idiot, but he also realizes if they don't fix this, it will be hung around his neck as much as it will the Dems. You can rail against it, gnash your teeth all you want. Doesn't change reality. You bought Obamacare. You own it. Enjoy! Posted by: BurtTC ....... You're daft. Not one Republican voted for Obamacare. The Republican budget has voted to defund Obamacare for 3 years. The House has voted to repeal Obamacare for 3 years. That fact none of these efforts were successful makes not one bit of difference - we didn't have the numbers. The Dems own it, and no one else. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (f9c2L) 180 "and how, pray tell, are you going to get Reid and the JEF to negotiate?" If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up. Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (u2a4R) 181 You know, the 'compare plans' part of the O-Care website already existed. It's called ehealthinsurance.com But there's no control freak IRS connection on that site, and it's mostly free market. Heaven knows, we can't have that. I think Rush Limbaugh is correct. Just about every program the progressives undertake just becomes a big money maker for the gov't and a way to control the population or exercise control. See Carbon Credits. See Obamacare. etc. Posted by: Sphynx at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (OZmbA) 182 When Drew says some in comments are arguing that this is smart politics we all knew who the fuck he was talking about. Posted by: maddogg at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (xWW96) 183 166 thunderb, Uh er thanks so uh singlepayer it is JWest? //Ogabe Posted by: sven10077 at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (9jfyN) 184 Why? Posted by: mama winger at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (P6QsQ) _____________ Because I said so! Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (0LHZx) 185 so, anyone hoping boehner or someone is putting a little risk management into their thought process before flying all of congress to fl? I did not see if it is the USAF flying them or if they chartered reichstagair, anyone know? Posted by: yankeefifth at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (Z9EHQ) 186 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:52 PM (0LHZx) Please point out anywhere in Human History.... where when a Government gets partial control of something.... that control does NOT grow? Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (lZBBB) 187 If you get cancer, the govt should pay the bills. WTF? Why? Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (4df7R) 188 the left couldn't pass it up? bwhwhahahahahhahhahhahahahahah where the fuck have you been? Posted by: thunderb at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (zOTsN) 189 How could Rubio talk with McCain's schwantz in his mouth? Sorry Marco McCain. FUCK YOU. Posted by: Minnfidel at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (ixf9H) 190 Now pay for your fucking insurance or we'll take all of your shit. I don't mind paying for my insurance; it's paying for the this fucking guys' insurance that I mind. http://is.gd/JGSc8p Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (/kI1Q) 191 If the republicans offered to pass a bill giving everyone universal single payer catastrophic coverage, the left couldn't pass it up. --------------- Brilliant! Let's just offer up leftist bills then! Problem solved. Posted by: mama winger at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (P6QsQ) 192 I think there could be a role for a govt insurance deal that works like medicare, but only for catastrophic items. The problem is of course, that as soon as that's implemented, the left will be fighting to define a hang nail as catastrophic. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (0LHZx) 193 >>>I'm lost on Rubio. He's flailing about desperately trying to gain back his popularity. Trying to do everything he can think of to get it back. And since a lot of the republican establishment media loves them some amnesty they keep trying to help him with it too. Posted by: Buzzion at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (JfzEh) 194 universal single payer catastrophic coverage Watch how fast every single routine checkup becomes "catastrophic". Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (/kI1Q) 195 Just as we Morons were talking about yesterday... The neo-statist Establishment Republicans want big government - they just want to be running the show. Posted by: @JohnTant at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (PFy0L) 196 A better PR move would be to introduce a repeal bill. Simple 1 sentence bill. It won't go anywhere of course, but a lot more people will agree with it than 6 months ago. And this is what counts now, the PR, not actual bills passing or not passing. You're right that the PR battle is very important, but passing yet another House bill to repeal Obamacare isn't going to get any press. It wouldn't move the needle at all. At this point I think the LIB strategy (as it relates to Obamacare) is about the best we can do. It'll be a lot easier to convince voters that Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster after they experience said disaster firsthand. Nobody pays attention to the crazy guy holding a "REPENT THE END IS NEAR" sign until they see the flaming meteors falling from the sky. Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 22, 2013 12:56 PM (SY2Kh) 197 Please point out anywhere in Human History.... where when a Government gets partial control of something.... that control does NOT grow? Posted by: Romeo13 at October 22, 2013 12:55 PM (lZBBB) _____________ I know. I said so above #192. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 12:57 PM (0LHZx) 198 jwes

321 Moo moo should take a mighty dump, afore he explodes.

322 For the 10th time....you get around this by defining catastrophic in terms of money, not in terms of procedures. Oh, like the AMT. Yeah, that won't get out of hand, ever. Diddling money/costs is infinitely easier than playing with medical conditions.

323 FUCK ME

324 According to Kelo, the Fifth Amendment. Posted by: alexthechick Thanks for that kick in the sac to remind me about Kelo, AtC.

325 Mr. Moo Moo, your Agonizer please.

326 Ball Hairs in my soup!!

327

"I agree with you. The problem though is how do you keep the separation between routine and catastrophic at a reasonable level."

 

This is where the Death Panels come in.

 

Or perhaps I should say it in the singular form - Death Panel.  As some here will tell you, I'm a big fan of the Death Panel.

 

I believe that we can't use unlimited taxes and borrowing to provide every option of medical science to everyone, regardless of how effective that treatment is.  In practice, I don't believe that taxpayers should have to pay a couple hundred thousand for a lung transplant in a 86 year old alcoholic with a bad liver.

 

A Death Panel would use a system akin to Oregon's system of scoring outcome probability and come up with list of what would be paid for and what wouldn't. 

 

In their system, there is a pretty clear line drawn between everyday treatment and scored illness that would provide a good line for any new system.

 

One thing additionally,  in my plan, no one is prevented from paying for and receiving any type of treatment they want.  If you want to keep grandma alive past what the government will pay for, get your checkbook out and go for it. 

328 That fact none of these efforts were successful makes not one bit of difference - we didn't have the numbers. The Dems own it, and no one else. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 22, 2013 12:54 PM (f9c2L) The Media (Liberal Democrat Propaganda agents) won't tell the story that way.

329 FUCK ME Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (0LHZx) Oh, don't you worry, pumpkin, that's on The List.

330 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (0LHZx)


Nice recap of the thread.  Thanks.

331 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (0LHZx)

You need a new hobby. This collage thing isn't your bag.

332

For the 10th time....you get around this by defining catastrophic in terms of money, not in terms of procedures. You set a limit. $10K a year, $20K, whatever. Up to that limit, you are responsible for the cost, either by paying cash or having insurance. Above that limit, the govt pays for it.

So birth control, unless it costs $21K a year, will not be covered.

 

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:23 PM (0LHZx)

 

Uh-huh.  Until magically it is.    Because forcing  poor people to pay for up to X-dollars per year for their insurance before sugar daddy gubmint swoops in to help is RACIST, dammit.  And sexist, too,   because    men   don't have babies but women do,  and you expect women to pay for their full pregnancy expenses?   Do you know how expensive that   is?    Why don't men have to pay for that, too?    You expect    only women to have to buy   insurance with that included?      Or     do    you expect them to go get backalley abortions because they're cheaper than getting them through a recognized clinic, and they don't have the money to pay for anything better than a coat hanger up the twat?     WHY ARE YOU SO EVIL?

 

 

333 Dr. Moo Moo, report to the barrel.

334

wow

 

hostile intentional copy paste fail

 

that's a first

335

You know, I saw things like "GOP" and "smart" in the same sentences in this post, and thought it was High Comedy......

Actually, the Democrats standing firm and declaring "this is the law of the land!" should remind folks of the last time they did that, sometime in 1860, I believe.

336 JWest.....barrel

337

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (0LHZx)

 

To quote Doug McKenzie, "It was funny at first, but now it just bugs me."

338 Seeming to be willing to compromise is a good strategyÂ… but fails here for two reasons: 1). The media will blame the GOP for being non-compromising extremists regardless of the truth; 2). Many in Congressional GOPers really want to compromise sell-out.

339 The incident occurred last Thursday in Mountain City, when according to police documents, now-former Officer Jody Putnam found himself at the right place at the right time.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM


Ain't no use in goin' home
Jody shot your squirrel and gone
Ain't no use in feelin' blue
Jody shot your kitteh too

340 Thanks for that kick in the sac to remind me about Kelo, AtC. Posted by: Countrysquire at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (LSJmV) *blows kisses*

341 I am completely comfortable with a person ,who can't master the treacherous waters of the copy paste, dictating healthcare policy to me.

 

 

Posted by: Boss Moss

 

 

moo moo, was that in response to this?

342 sorry JWest.....that was Mau Mu.....


awesome recap Moo Moo

343 I think both sides - Conservatives and Republicans - agree that we are in a battle for the party.  People like Rubio will run as conservatives and then immediately upon election vote as liberals or at least vote in ways that help the liberal agenda. So, we can't trust them when they claim to be conservative.

Unfortunately, the only way for conservatives to win that battle is to show that Republicans can't win without our support.

Conservatives have tried pressure, primaries and other such tactics and it doesn't move the party to the right.

The only way that conservatives can send the message that the GOP can't ignore us or lie to us is to refuse to vote for them and let the cards fall where they may.

My suggestion is that in the 2014 mid-term elections, conservatives vote in state and local elections, but refuse to cast a vote in any federal election.  This way, republicans will have real evidence of the conservative anger at republicans.  It can be counted and analyzed. 

The counter, as always, is "but democrats will win if we don't vote".  And to that I say - so what?  What difference, policy-wise, will that actually make?  For one, Obama will still remain president.  So even if congressional republicans were wont to pursue conservative policy (they aren't), they could not do so. Even if republicans wanted to repeal Obamacare (they don't), they couldn't do it. Republicans have proven unwilling to fight the left on anything and have demonstrated a willingness to fight conservatives on everything.  I for one don't think having a GOP majority in the house or senate means much, if anything.  At best, the rate of gov't growth is slowed with GOP majorities.  At worst, it increases the rate of Gov't growth (see 2000 - 2006).

It is in conservatism's interest for the GOP to suffer defeats in the mid-terms with evidence establishing that it was conservative refusal to vote for GOP candidates that caused defeats.  Otherwise, we are never going to get anything worthwhile out of the GOP.  Anyone who believes otherwise is ignoring the last 30 years of history. 

344 FUCK ME Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM (0LHZx) Oh, don't you worry, pumpkin, that's on The List. Posted by: The Barrel LOL like the entire shortbus at that reply.

345

336 JWest.....barrel

 

It wasn't me.

346 People forgo medical treatment? Do I win a prize? Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:25 PM (0LHZx) "Insurance" is not treatment. Medical "Insurance" is the proximate cause of insanely high medical expenses. If people payed their own bills, the prices charged by Medical providers would be somewhere in the vicinity of reasonable, but the Medical industry has had many of the normal free market mechanisms stripped out of it because of "insurance."

347 345 Jwest,

I acknowledged that to avoid a turn....

carry on

348 hey moo moo, was that really an accident, or a retort?

349

Could someone copy paste the Library of Congress for me?

350 343 monkeytoe,

I held my nose a quarter century....

no more

351 I'm a bit torn by this whole thing actually. As much as I hate Obamacare and want to see it abolished, I also hate to see the harm that it will do to so many families with its implementation. OTOH, I eagerly await the damage that it will do the the Dims in 2014. All that said, I'll defer to someone much wiser than me (even though he wasn't a Texan) said: "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." I do wonder if in Abe's day that he could even imagine congress exempting itself from laws.

352
And who, pray tell, is going to PAY for "Universal Single Payer" coverage?

It's you suckers who aren't smart enough to become a member of the 47% who pay no taxes.  We fucked you and it felt good.

353 If people payed their own bills, the prices charged by Medical providers would be somewhere in the vicinity of reasonable, but the Medical industry has had many of the normal free market mechanisms stripped out of it because of "insurance." having to pay for the FSA's & illegals.

354 awesome recap Moo Moo
Posted by: sven10077

LOL

355 Do we have a permanent resident for the barrel?

356

Laws only apply to the Proletariat.

357 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer". But we can still think it, right?

358 Newd.

359 I like cats. And Ouija boards.

360 Nood.

361 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:27 PM

The Barrel ain't gonna do it

We're going to have to bring in the water tower

362 Posted by: Monkeytoe at October 22, 2013 01:31 PM (sOx93) The argument that we should vote for a Democrat instead of a back stabbing Republican is a valid one. The NRA has great success because both parties know that if you cross the NRA, it will back your opponent. It will go OUT OF IT'S WAY to back your opponent. If we EVER want those bastards to be scared of us, we are going to have to chop off a few Republican heads.

363 But we can still think it, right? The point is not to get them to change their vote or the way they think. The point is to make them fear ever participating in the process again. Self-suppression.

364 damn Florida RINO's

365 350 Sven,

That's mostly my point.  The trick is getting other conservatives to see the tactical purpose of a general strike from voting republican.  There has to be consequences for their actions.  The fact that both Boehner and McConnel retain their leadership positions demonstrates that the GOP wants to help liberalism.

We can't vote for even the most conservative talking GOP candidate any longer.  They need to lose elections across the board.

I understand the argument some make for voting for "the most conservative electable candidate" and therefore voting for whatever idiot the GOP nominates.  But that only makes sense in some situations.  If the most conservative electable candidate is from a party that does everything the DNC wants, why bother?

At some point conservatives have to perform a real soul-searching and decide whether they simply want to "win" elections by electing GOP candidates or actually push conservatism.  If it is the former - go ahead and keep voting for the GOP no matter what it does.  If it is the latter, the only way forward is to punish the GOP and force it rightward or else allow it to die altogether so a new party can form.  That will entail election losses for the GOP.  But, often, the short-term sacrifice leads to the greater long term gain.

366 320 cut and paste courtesy of Healthcare.gov

367 Could someone copy paste the Library of Congress for me? Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 22, 2013 01:34 PM (ujMoa) lmao

368 John McCain told me this bill would be a great idea! I'm sure he must be right, even though his last idea for me on immigration was terrible. I mean to say, how many times can one guy be so unbelievably wrong?

369


Why would you trust your healthcare to the same people who provided my security?

370 having to pay for the FSA's & illegals. Posted by: rickb223 at October 22, 2013 01:36 PM (h1D+w) That would also likely change if people paid their own bills. If Medical facilities operated on a more for-profit basis, they wouldn't be able to get away with that shit. If the state tried to force them, they would scream bloody murder about it until they got their way. With so much money floating in the system they can afford to put up with it so they do. An Added benefit is that the increased pressure on the state from the medical communities as regards illegal aliens might stir the governing leviathan to do something about it.

371 My friend Leader Reid suggested I introduce a one time tax on 401-K savings to reduce the deficit. Right now I don't think that's the right way to go.

372

Rubio,

remember when he was the cute little puppy of foxxy news and the then Republican Party ( Now Known as The Knee Pad Party) ?

I called that mutt out years ago...

Now it is finally sinking in, the Old Guard..

Speaking of sinking in,

 the Veiss House just announced that the 7.2 % unemployment rate was proof of a firmer economy.

I had a firm stool this morning , but I would not walk on it.

In OT, old Col McConell said the 2.5 Billion Pork add on this month  to the Budget Bill, for his Kentucky Locks and Damns saved the tax  payer 135 million,

Thats pure Government Math..

373 People have been saying that we have to be "for" something in addition to being "against" the liberal agenda. Which is hard for us because we're for less. So I think Rubio is falling into the Jeb Bush trap that "for" is liberal lite instead of a small government solution. Rubio should propose scrapping O-Care and proposing moderate reforms, like tort-reform, cross state insurance, medical savings plans, and transparency in healthcare.

374 So the republican civil war over tactics has come to an armistice, and now we're actively aiding and abetting the enemy of my enemy?

375 Do you guys know Alan Grayson? It might surprise you, but he's really a good guy. He's taken me to dinner many times, and we've had some great conversations. He reminded me the other day how poor we were growing up and he suggested maybe Washington should guarantee everyone a reasonable minimum income. I'm thinking of introducing the bill; what does everyone think?!

376 If we EVER want those bastards to be scared of us, we are going to have to chop off a few Republican heads.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 22, 2013 01:41 PM (bb5+k)

A few heads isn't sufficient.  We have done that with primary challenges, defeating the party favorite in other primaries, etc.  that has accomplished nothing.

We have to be willing to let republicans lose across the board - even in red states.  Particularly in red states as that is where we get the worst betrayal from (Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Mitch McConnell).  A few primaries here and there changes how GOP politicians talk for a few months, but ultimately does not change how they act.  And it has not effected the establishment whatsoever.  And - for the most part - even those insurgent candidates are eventually co-opted by the establishment.  

To shake up the establishment, we need an across the board shock.  We need conservatives by the millions to sit out an election and let republicans lose even winnable elections.  It's one thing for a few conservatives to sit out a close-election in a purple state - that isn't going to change the party's behavior.  They can always spin that away because there is going to be a lot of conflicting data.

We need to show demonstrable drops in republican voting across the board that is directly attributable to conservative dissatisfaction.  To me, the best way to do that is for conservatives to vote as they normally would in state and local races, but not vote for anyone in federal elections.  That way, it is measurable.  It is not simply conjecture as to what happened, it is clear that "X" number of people who normally vote GOP across the country refused to vote because of dissatisfaction with the GOP.

377 367 Could someone copy paste the Library of Congress for me?
Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 22, 2013 01:34 PM (ujMoa)

Give me a few days and I'll post the entire Obamacare Bill

378 Then the ball will bounce back to Rubio who already has admitted people are being hurt and... Doesn't it always seem that a fair amount of Republican set themselves up for this kind of shit by opening their mouths before thinking?

379 Marco Rubio...Hey, We Should Throw Obama A Lifeline On ObamaCare

 

John McCain... Even better, let's let him ride across the river on our back?

380 365 Monkeytoe,

Yup.

I made up my mind, I am leaving the party.

381 Marco Who? I'm already done with the GOP so who cares. Obama is a joke. GOP is a bigger joke. Tea Party is the biggest joke of all. If the Tea Party doesn't primary Rubio they are done to me also.

382 You don't win votes by calling people idiots for voting for this and then say, "now you must suffer".







Yes, but it's a whole lotta fun rubbing it in the noses of the idiots who voted for Barry that all of this pain and grief is because they were dumb enough to vote for him

383 380 Sven, Bolted from the republicans over Medicaid expansion and bushy amnesty. Enough.

384 To: Marco Rubio
From: Me

No.....

The nice man from the GOP Senate reelection campaign that called me earlier wasn't happy about my response for donations.

While I'm not one of those "both parties are the same" types, I definitely find myself getting there really quick. At the point, the GOP party must cease to exist as a political force and a new party takes the place. The establishment Republicans refuse to follow their constituents desires so it's time to find a political party that will.

Since we all know the GOP fund-raising is "raising the roof" so they don't need the money. 

385 From 2001-2006, the congressional party was working in support of a Republican President who was elected on a platform including No Child Left Behind, Medicare D, and "compassionate conservatism."  Undermining him would have certainly led to President Kerry and far worse policies and an immediate withdrawal from Iraq.  Or maybe you would have preferred President Al Gore?

There is no joy for anyone in malcontents who think themselves entitled to their preferred outcomes even as a distinct minority even in the GOP.  If you hate "Team GOP" so much, LEAVE.  You will never take over this party because you are absolutists with no leadership skills at all.  Go form your own fringe party where you can rant and rave in obscurity forever.

386 @385.....Not 'fixing' the problem sooner than later will result in more pain, not less. As for "Team GOP," the establishment wing of the party is very much for the growth of government, the control over more of YOUR life and your neighbor's. As for the "don't let the democrats win," tell me what's the difference?

What's the difference between say President Hillary or President Jeb Bush/Chris Christy? Maybe Jeb or Chris wouldn't spend slightly as much as Hillary? What's the difference between Bohner vs Pelosi? How 'bout McConnell vs Reid? Government needs to go on a very serious and very strict diet, NOW but I don't see that happening with the players I mentioned. Do you?

387 Delaying the IM until after the next election will guarantee no felt pain while the Lyin kINg proclaims rainbows and free stuff are just over the horizon for this abomination!
Delaying the IM will guarantee the Senate remains in Reids control and full implementation will be a Fait accompli!

388 If this disaster can be front and center for a full year the Repunks have their issue to return them to power in both Senate and House whereupon they can begin to at least block and defund, investigate and litigate this disaster of an abortion of a bill, BUT the American Sheeples must feel the pain PERSONALLY!

389 Well, it would make Gabe feel better if we gave the JEF what he wants...

390 "Delay" is stupid. From the political side, I agree with (and I can't believe I am typing this) Boehner. They fought this fight (sort of). They lost. The Media and Democrats have spoken (the people? pfftt... they don't matter anymore)- It's the LAAAAW!!! Fine. From the practical side: Delay does nothing to help anyone at this point. Oh sure- the IRS won't be chasing anyone down on April 15th for $90. Goody goodie gumdrops. The consequence is: a) already skyrocketing rates skyrocket more, since NO ONE is paying the insurance bills, people are still getting sick, and 52% of the country thinks that, as of Oct. 1st, they got more free shit and will flood hospitals this flu season demanding their Free 'BamaCare and Birf Control. The train has left the station. LIVs voted for this shit, Dread Justice Roberts upheld it, and the Republicans failed to do their job for 3 years. The ONLY option at this point is Let.It.Burn. Politically: LIB means that the Republicans can universally plead the Boehner any say "We fought, we lost, as the minority we will go along with the program AS WRITTEN because IT"S THE LAW). It ain't about punishment. People VOTED for this shit. Too late to save them from themselves. In 2014, they can campaign on "We did our best, but majority rules. Oh... that ain't working out? Vote for us and we'll get rid of it." Practically: It beats the alternative. At least the 1% of the 1% of people who are want to and are able to sign up on the ridiculous website might pay something. I hate that fact, but it is a fact. Common sense lost. Fine. Going half-assed now only makes it worse for everyone. Personally, I'm not buying anything and I am not paying the tax (There are plenty of loopholes. One fun one is "I am Muslim and taxes are against my religion"- really, look it up) , so it makes no difference to me either way.

391

"Obama needs a delay. Why in the world would you give him what he needs?"

 

They did throw him the lifeline.  He didn't take it.  His vanity wouldn't let him.

392 The left's goal is total, universal, government run x ...Posted by: jwest at October 22, 2013 01:09 PM (u2a4R) x = whatever you want.

393 They don't have to be if the law is structured right. That's my fucking point. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 22, 2013 01:13 PM (0LHZx) Or you could just let, you know, the people buying it decide. That always seems to work pretty well, since your needs and mine aren't the same, and your risk tolerance and mine aren't the same.

394 I'll gladly toss Obama a lifeline. Providing it's a 10" hawser.

395 Of course amnesty has to be part of the deal. It's the other half of the wealth transfer (ubamacare).

396

Monkeytoe, who are you going to teach a lesson?  Do you think getting rid of say a Susan Collins is going to open the door for a more conservative candidate?  That's nuts, it's not going to happen UNLESS, the more conservative candidate also happens to be a world class communicator with a message of optimism and a set of policies that address the concerns that most Americans share.

And you know how you are going about doing this?  Threatening the people on the right side of the aisle.  Sorry, but this is the same shit the left does.  A black isn't a black unless they agree with them politically.  For you, a person on the right isn't on the right unless they agree with you.  

We are being rolled and the best you got is to lecure on how to make sure the load is heavier and our remants thinner on the pavement of your path. 

397

Simple.

 

Marco Rubio wants to take the spotlight from Cruz, since he also wants to run for President.

 

He said little or nothing when McConnell tried to crucify Cruz so that McConnell could rush his snout to the 2.9 B dam deal, the one he took to betray his country.

McConnell knows that it's his state who'll re-elect him, not America.