Ace of Spades HQ

October 16, 2013

ObamaCare's Rollout Failures Hurts the Case for Single Payer
— Ace

An often-expressed idea -- a fear on the right, a hope on the left -- is that the failure of ObamaCare will drive people towards the full leftist position, that of a Single Payer system, in which government completely, rather than 80%, takes over all health care.

Charles C. W. Cooke examines this idea and finds it unlikely. For obvious reasons.

[I]f Obamacare fails structurally, we will start to hear a drumbeat from the Left Â— and one based upon the argument that Americans canÂ’t have workable universal healthcare while maintaining a diffuse system of private health insurance. Advocates will contend, I suspect, that the for-profit model simply cannot be reconciled with Â“fairnessÂ” and Â“social justiceÂ” and whatever other silly and vague words they choose, and that the government must take over the payment system in consequence. How much success this approach will have is anybodyÂ’s guess.
But if Obamacare fails technically, too, and the memories of trying for weeks just to create a government account linger in the minds of the public Â— perhaps even leading to an embarrassing delay Â– opponents will have been presented with a strong hammer with which to whack the single-payer mole for years to come. Â“The government couldnÂ’t even run a website without it turning into the DMV,Â” they will be able to say. Â“Do you want them in charge of the whole damn thing?Â”

Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat. Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive.

Posted by: Ace at 01:13 PM | Comments (260)
Post contains 276 words, total size 2 kb.

1 First?

Posted by: Ian Galt at October 16, 2013 01:14 PM (QdOC1)

2 Gershwin? hit

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:14 PM (MhA4j)

3 The fed's fiscal house of cards will collapse long before we get to single payer.

Posted by: Ian Galt at October 16, 2013 01:15 PM (QdOC1)

4 http://tinyurl.com/lsggq76 don't mess with Mr. In Between

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:15 PM (MhA4j)

5 Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat. Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive.

Just posted to the now dead thread:

My take on all this is that this was the political equivalent of the Doolittle raid. Militarily, it was a catastrophe. We lost planes and pilots we couldn't afford, and risked valuable military assets we couldn't replace (aircraft carriers), not to mention a 1/4M dead allies (the Chinese). All for a militarily insignificant raid on a few Japanese factories.

However.

The country was in a defeatist funk, and needed a demonstration that we were in the war, and that could fight back against the Japanese, who at that point enjoyed an unbroken string of victories. The raid lifted spirits, and gave us renewed optimism, which was far more important than a few planes or factories.

This political fight was much the same. It would have been far worse if the GOP had simply punted. No, we didn't get much, and we've taken a short term hit in the polls, but I think in the long run this will turn out to have been a big net plus, because at least some Republicans put up a fight, and showed that not everybody was a defeatist or a Vichyite. That will be hugely important in the coming fights.

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:16 PM (6TB1Z)

6 He don't know me very well, do he.

Posted by: Democrat Bugs Bunny at October 16, 2013 01:16 PM (vH4YP)

7 Seriously? The goal was never to convince everyone to go to single payer. Hell, I have my doubts the goal was even to convince the LIVs, except to the extent of making them scream. After the last few years it should be *painfully* obvious the goal is to position themselves to be able to impose it *without a proper debate or vote*. They have succeeded in abusing the law and Constitution and arrogating power they do not rightfully possess, and shown contempt for the desires of the public or the arguments on their opposition. And they're getting away with it. You never know when you lost your freedom until well after the event, I don't even know if we've passed that line, but if we haven't we're hurtling toward it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at October 16, 2013 01:16 PM (qyfb5)

8 panzernashorn, you beat me to it. Love that version.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 16, 2013 01:16 PM (QF8uk)

9 I like his optimism, but soon the masses will be back to their inattentiveness only to get rick-rolled.

Posted by: dogfish at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (nsOJa)

10 I saw "Accentuate The Positive" open for Pat Benetar back in 1980.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (9jLim)

11 The thing that always scares me is the knowledge that our cousins, the British, voted for the NHS. And even today, there's no serious movement to eliminate it.

Posted by: toby928© at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (QupBk)

12 Yeah! This great leftard idea didn't work worth a shit. So double down on smart governmnet=======>WIN

Posted by: maddogg at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (xWW96)

13 There you go again, citing logic and reason as why the Left won't get what they want.

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (CMlD4)

14 Ace - I disagree. One thing that I've learned between 2010 and today is that the 'silent majority' just doesn't exist anymore.

It's Free Shit Army all the way, and their ranks are swelling. You may very well have republicans and conservatives screaming from the rooftops, pointing out precisely what Cooke posits here, but not enough people will listen. It won't matter.

"Free shit? I'm in."

That's as far as the majority of American voters think, and they've won.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (+YFcy)

15 Nice post, thanks no snark.

I am of two minds most of the time I agree with Cooke, but then I remember the Koos kids and Dede Jenital....

then I think we're doomed.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (9jfyN)

16 2. Inspired by Father Divine, music was written by Harold Arlen and the lyrics by Johnny Mercer, and it was published in 1944.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (MhA4j)

17 What scares me is Democrats will couch this in fiscal terms, such as they do with everything else.

If we simply "tax the rich" some more.

If people would only pay their "fare share"...

This resonates with the simpletons who vote for them.

Irrational and contra factual? Sure. But that doesn't matter to the Takers and filches.

Posted by: Marcus at October 16, 2013 01:17 PM (GGCsk)

18 Goverment can't fix a fucking pothole in the middle of the road.....yet...here we are......(just saying)

Posted by: Mr.KnowItAll at October 16, 2013 01:18 PM (uJK1E)

19
    Call me all done with the GOP.

    As far as Ocare is concerned?   I categorically refuse to have anything whatsoever with to do with this travesty.

    Fine me, jail me, don't give a wet shit.

     Done with it.

Posted by: irongrampa at October 16, 2013 01:18 PM (SAMxH)

20 Obamacare delenda est

Posted by: Pissed off taxpayer at October 16, 2013 01:19 PM (hfSl/)

21 Thanks for trying to accentuate the positive, ace. At some point perhaps we can have a "sucky" GOvernor contest and see which state wins. I think NJ is way up there-what with "I am a gay man" (who happened to get my cheating lover on the payroll) McGreevey I didn't care that McG was gay, just that he was a cheating scoundrel. Then there's "My company bilked millions out of people and I got off scott free" Corzine but I'm sure there are other states who have Governors who lived large in a corrupt way, I'm thinking of the good hair guy-Blago-from IL.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 01:19 PM (a4Omg)

22 "...opponents will have been presented with a strong hammer with which to whack the single-payer mole for years to come.

I also find this to be a little disingenuous coming from Cooke. He was never on board with the Cruz hammer and argued several times that we should just roll over and have our bellies rubbed.

Posted by: dogfish at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (nsOJa)

23 I know a couple people here have stated that the DMV analogy is meaningless now because it's really easy to go to the DMV!
I want to move where they live because the hell it is by me. Ask Jane about D'oh Boy's adventures in getting his license renewed. Ask me about how I had to go to three separate places, all of them fairly far apart, to get a new registration, license plate and license when I moved to NC. Oh and ask me about how there was a budget battle so no weekend hours or being open after 4:30 for those offices. Ask the guy who came into our office today looking like something the cat dragged in because he'd been in line for four and half hours at the DMV to get title transferred to his name and he wasn't any closer to being done. I think the DMV analogy holds but if not, I have a better one. Say it'll be like going to the Social Security office for whatever reason. That's always a joy and a half. Mention that it will be just like going to the Social Security office, up to and including sitting there wondering how it is that people with no appreciable knowledge of the English language are getting their Social Security cards.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (VtjlW)

24 Charles doesn't realize the people who vote for Democrats are the same people that went hog-wild at Walmart when the EBT limits were unavailable.

I believe that changes the argument somewhat.

Posted by: Marcus at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (GGCsk)

25 I would encourage anyone with Obamacare questions to call the help line and politely attempt to speak with the agent for as long as he or she will keep you on. Since the system is already tottering, imagine what a virtual sitdown strike would do.

Posted by: Carl at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (BiTm2)

26 >>But if Obamacare fails technically, too, and the memories of trying for weeks just to create a government account linger in the minds of the public Â— perhaps even leading to an embarrassing delay Â– opponents will have been presented with a strong hammer with which to whack the single-payer mole for years to come. This is what I have been saying for weeks. This is the hill to fight on and make them die on. But he only makes half the argument. Obamacare is an example of big government writ large. This is the point that needs to be made over and over again. Make it crystal clear to people that Obamacare is what you get when you support liberal big government. That is the rallying cry and it will be powerful. Pain is very clarifying.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (g1DWB)

27 10. http://tinyurl.com/mlvrtv3 Artie Shaw's Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate The Positive

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:20 PM (MhA4j)

28 Just wait until the EBT cards HAVE to be eliminated because there is no money. It will make the nonsense at the Wal-Marts in LA look like a... <insert appropriate metaphor>.

Posted by: Ian Galt at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (QdOC1)

29 You can stick your RINO positivity in a sack, mister!

Posted by: George Costanza at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (ruCZw)

30 They have succeeded in abusing the law and Constitution and arrogating power they do not rightfully possess, and shown contempt for the desires of the public or the arguments on their opposition.

And they're getting away with it.

You never know when you lost your freedom until well after the event, I don't even know if we've passed that line, but if we haven't we're hurtling toward it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at October 16, 2013 05:16 PM (qyfb5)

---------------------------------------------------

Agree. Dear Leader still has three more years. He'll find a way to "deem" single-payer healthcare into law.

And no one will do anything about it.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (3Mz5/)

31 The thing that always scares me is the knowledge that our cousins, the British, voted for the NHS. And even today, there's no serious movement to eliminate it. Posted by: toby928

TFW.

Posted by: dogfish at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (nsOJa)

32
But if Obamacare fails technically....

Then the sign-up process for Uni-O-care with be simplified. Just as voter registration was declared impossibly complex, so it became an easy check box on damned near every government form.

Mind you, might be a bit of fraud with non-citizens getting in, but amnesty will take care of that.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (kdS6q)

33 "Free shit? I'm in."

That's as far as the majority of American voters think, and they've won.
__________________________
It's also as far as the majority of our immigrants think as well (at least in S. Cal.) but soon they'll be voters too so we have that to look forward to.

Posted by: BuckIV at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (gedHR)

34 Obamacare's failure being a path to single payer... Is like claiming premature ejaculation is a path to anal.

Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (Fi00V)

35 No single payor will be more attractive because the premium will not be a check written by the LIV out of their bank account to an insurance company. It will be tucked away like your SS tax that you ignore every paycheck.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 01:21 PM (m2CN7)

36 As a retiree I have been able to get my insurance through my former employer at group rates. They've decided that retirees will now get insurance through the exchange. If I can't get that thing to work, I could find myself uninsured as of January 1st. I'm in my early sixties. I can't emotionally handle the risk of not being insured. I also can't afford to pay for something like a heart attack or cancer out of pocket. This whole thing is making me sick. I was perfectly happy to pay for my own insurance. Everything was fine until that bastard in the white house screwed it all up.

Posted by: nerdygirl at October 16, 2013 01:22 PM (TBLif)

37 I'm sorry. That was off topic. Just my black humor post for the day. Maybe a photoshop and caption contest? That would be fun.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 01:22 PM (a4Omg)

38 Agreed Cooke is probably a long term Kos plant at NRO. Good eye.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 01:22 PM (ZPrif)

39 Posted by: FenelonSpoke

We should have a "which Repub needs to die in a fire" contest and then send the "winner" matches, lighter fluid and a manual on self-immolation.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 01:22 PM (9jLim)

As I seem to be technically challenged: Type in "Seriously? the Republicans have no Health Plan?"( Avik Roy in Forbes) and see what percentage of uninsured would have been covered back in 2007 without a mandate...It links to an analysis slide show...

I don't want any part of it either IronGrampa!!

Posted by: DefendUSA at October 16, 2013 01:22 PM (S0aj8)

Cooke hits what once again I always was the flaw in Cloven Piven - it relies on people who can see what caused the crash to then insist on more of it.

"Well, the exchanges went down the turd hole and really sucked. Lets do it more" Of course, Obama voters have proven me wrong twice already....

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:23 PM (t06LC)

42 >>>Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive.

It IS true. This is what heartens me, and what makes me laugh at people who say "Obama's goal was always for Obamacare to be such a massive catastrophic failure that single-payer was the only option left!!"

The response to that is, "hey, are you gonna tell me that fire can't melt steel next?" Look, if Obamacare's rollout and execution had been a major success -- maybe a few bugs, but otherwise a smashing success -- then single-payer would be a real threat. But if you think that Democrats, having failed spectacularly and catastrophically with Obamacare, are going to be able to convince Americans that what we need is even more government-run healthcare, because look at how well the last time turned out, then you're checking your common sense at the door.

Leaving that aside, the Dems would need 60 votes in the Senate and control of the House. You think they'll get that?

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 01:23 PM (n/+FT)

43 Oh, goody! A Republican Platform Survey just arrived for me.

*rubs hands together giddily*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (lVPtV)

44 The failure of the Obamacare rollout means nothing to the LIV zealots. In their eyes, it's just proof that our country needs to throw more money at it because "social justice" and "health care is a human right."

Posted by: NR Pax at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (ODsL5)

45 Even the Brits don't have total single payer. The smart one buy additional private insurance and go to private clinics and pay cash to see private doctors.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (shXYq)

@35

Could be useful. Extra lube. Depends on how determined you are to keep thrusting on.

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (t06LC)

47 nah, leftists almost never admit that their plans and idea are wrong. It's always that we didn't go far enough.

Posted by: mallfly at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (bJm7W)

48 the Dems would need 60 votes in the Senate and control of the House. You think they'll get that?[u\/i]

Possibly.

Posted by: Susan Collins at October 16, 2013 01:24 PM (6TB1Z)

49 I know a couple people here have stated that the DMV analogy is meaningless now because it's really easy to go to the DMV!

I want to move where they live because the hell it is by me.

Rural Indiana. I lost my wallet at the biergarten last month (shuddup) and the next morning I checked in at the BMV at 9:07 and was back at my car with my temporary license at 9:14.

OTOH, my minion lives in the city and has been their twice for hours trying to transfer his plates from his home state, so there's that.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs to skip the beer and go straight to tequila at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (/kI1Q)

50 Say it'll be like going to the Social Security office for whatever reason. People get used to utter crap. I have some acquaintances in Los Angeles, we got into a discussion about it and other government programs. They said they had no problem signing up for their social security benefits on retirement. Well, the bureaucrat kept losing their paperwork for some reason, but all we had to do was call up our representativeÂ’s office and it got sorted out.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (QF8uk)

51 Charles doesn't realize the people who vote for Democrats are the same people that went hog-wild at Walmart when the EBT limits were unavailable. I believe that changes the argument somewhat. It does. Especially when the EBT'ers have to start paying for that shit.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (p9JxP)

52 Let me take this shiv out of my back and I"ll read the article.

Posted by: Ponce at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (Cs2tJ)

53 >>>At some point perhaps we can have a "sucky" GOvernor contest and see which state wins.

Maryland would like to have a word with you. Bob Ehrlich was a blessed respite from 30 years of Democrat failure, but Martin O'Malley and Parris Glendenning in particular are world-beaters in the "shite governor" sweepstakes.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (n/+FT)

54 Make it crystal clear to people that Obamacare is what you get when you support liberal big government. You and I, we understand that. But liberals will ALWAYS insist that the government just wasn't big enough and powerful enough YET. Obama's dad in Kenya published as if a fact that the government has every right to 100% of everyone's income in order to provide for whatever promised needs. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to figure anything. So far as they are concerned, their faults are always someone named Elsie's responsibility.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:25 PM (MhA4j)

55 All I can see single payer doing is taking more money from people and handing them even shittier healthcare -- unless you have $$$$.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 16, 2013 01:26 PM (shXYq)

56 Yeah and I bet you said there would never be an ACA type Federally run healthcare plan either based on how the government runs the post office and the VA system.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 01:26 PM (m2CN7)

57 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at October 16, 2013 05:16 PM (qyfb5) This.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at October 16, 2013 01:26 PM (zg42c)

I don't feel particularly defeated today. I'm not sure why anyone not connected to maintaining an R majority would be.

It's like we're living in the movie Die Hard 3, except we don't have a Bruce Willis. And Sam Jackson is working for Jeremy Irons. So the R party are the NYPD, running around after Irons blows up Wall Street, drives off with all the gold (with the help of dopey union guys), sends a ship into the harbor, with no intention of shipping anything overseas. And the R party guys are busy trying to evacuate kids from the crumbling public schools, defusing koolaid flavored bombs, and trying to determine who the 21st President was.

In other words, Irons wins. Except he's not busy afterwards enjoying the affections of the nasty dirty but hot German chick, he's playing 15 rounds of spades with Sam Jackson.

Bruce Willis (aka Ted Cruz) was not only suspended from the NYPD, they sent a couple rookie cops to put a bullet in his head.

The end.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 01:26 PM (TOk1P)

59 19
Call me all done with the GOP.

As far as Ocare is concerned? I categorically refuse to have anything whatsoever with to do with this travesty.

Fine me, jail me, don't give a wet shit.

Done with it.
Posted by: irongrampa

That is my position. There are no jobs here and I can't find work. I am attempting to survive on my wife's "death benefit." In a huge, expensive to operate Victorian house I can't sell.
They will enroll me at gunpoint. I simply do not have the money.
And Duh!1 is a fucking clown, and an idiot, at best. Like most of his followers are.

Posted by: backhoe at October 16, 2013 01:26 PM (ULH4o)

60 I don't think that writer gets the point. obamacare, as it is formulated now, WILL drive all the private insurance companies out of the market. It will not be profitable or worth all the aggravation. That will leave only one option and that is for the Federal Gov to step in and take it over. The argument will not be that the Federal Gov sucks at doing it, but that there is no one else around to do it. That has been the plan all along and anyone in the healthcare industry knew that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (UbDLm)

61 This whole thing is making me sick. I was perfectly happy to pay for my own insurance.

I was even happier when I didn't have to pay for coverage for prostate exams, abortions/maternity, accupuncture, and a whole bunch of other shit I will never need.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs to skip the beer and go straight to tequila at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (/kI1Q)

62 This whole thing is making me sick. I was perfectly happy to pay for my own insurance. Everything was fine until that bastard in the white house screwed it all up. Posted by: nerdygirl at October 16, 2013 05:22 PM (TBLif) First of all, I'm sorry you're facing that. A lot of other people are, too, and right now feeling pretty powerless. Unfortunately, as usual, the politicians see a problem, no matter how exaggerated, and they *have* to stick their fat grubbies in it and make it worse, no matter how much worse their last intervention was. It's the Lesson That Shall Not Be Learned.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (qyfb5)

63 >>>Agreed Cooke is probably a long term Kos plant at NRO. Good eye.

Better purge him preemptively just to be sure.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (n/+FT)

64 Leftism doesn't triumph because it has more coherent arguments. It triumphs because people are stupid, lazy, greedy, and proud and Leftists understand how to leverage that stupidity, laziness, greed, and pride and transmute it into victory, whereas Conservatives' only retort is to attempt to paint Leftists as well-intentioned buffoons who somehow managed to murder 300 million people and ruin the lives of literally billions more. 'Oops.'

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (P3dws)

65 Harry Reid was reportedly so giddy he ordered up a street urchin to strangle after the bill is signed.

Posted by: Beto at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (VWfCN)

66 I hate to be such a pessimist but if they haven't noticed already that government fucks most everything up, they never will. Plus, of course, the fifth column/fifth estate will propagandize in a way that would shame Joe Goebbels.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (Hx5uv)

67 Apparently Boehner has admitted he's waiving the Hastert rule. I assume he knows that he's done as speaker.

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:27 PM (6TB1Z)

68 I suspect Single payer will look like a EITC matching your Ocare costs. They might even do it by tweaking the EITC calculator within the IRS without even bothering to go to Congress.

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (CMlD4)

69 Yeah,let's see with the shutdown lifted and the debt ceiling pushed back how the media jumps all over the terrible Obamacare failure.

Posted by: steevy at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (9XBK2)

70 Apparently Boehner has admitted he's waiving the Hastert rule. I assume he knows that he's done as speaker. Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 05:27 PM (6TB1Z) He should resign NOW

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (UbDLm)

@58

Was that the one with the buckets of water?

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (t06LC)

72 I agree with Cooke. The Obamacare debacle will not lead to single payer.

That said.. the strictly go-it-alone system we have had for decades is also unsustainable. It's a mess.

I have advocated a simple safety-net system that provides all Americans with catastrophic protection - but through private insurers who would be free to sell you any level of insurance (or none) that covers anything between zero dollars and the amount where the catastrophic safety net kicks in. This is paid for by a very small payroll deduction.

It's the best of both worlds, and would be extremely cheap to implement and cheap for the consumer.

The GOP is going to have to come up with an alternative to Obamacare. Something like the above makes sense for all Americans including businesses. Those of you who think going back to "you are on your own, asshole" is a plank the GOP should have might as well start shopping for a new political party.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (f9c2L)

73 65. it's what's for dinner

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:28 PM (MhA4j)

74 Always look on the bright side of life.

Posted by: OCBill at October 16, 2013 01:29 PM (rFipM)

75 equivalent of the Doolittle raid.

---

I was thinking Bunker Hill but tomayto, tomahto.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:29 PM (Hx5uv)

76 Better purge him preemptively just to be sure.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 05:27 PM (n/+FT)

You mean like they purged Ann Coulter?

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 01:29 PM (m2CN7)

77 Say it'll be like going to the Social Security office for whatever reason.

SSA offices in Milwaukee have armed guards to protect the bureaucrats from people who have been denied free shit.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs to skip the beer and go straight to tequila at October 16, 2013 01:29 PM (/kI1Q)

78 Is there anyway we can help make the Obamacare roll-out even more pathetic than it already is?

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 01:29 PM (9jLim)

79 After seeing how the Soviet Union and China murdered millions of their own citizens we can be sure that no one will ever want a central planning all powerful government. After seeing how the East German STASI turned the entire Country into a horror no one will ever allow a surveillance State to exist. After WWII no one will ever want to exterminate the Jews. After his first failed nightmare of a term no one would vote for a second term for Obama.

Posted by: Daybrother at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (cQ2+g)

80 Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 05:22 PM (9jLim) I think my contest sounds a little bit funnier. ;^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (a4Omg)

81 He should resign NOW Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (UbDLm) Out of my cold, dead hands and over my dead body.

Posted by: Jankin Boner at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (MhA4j)

82 And John Derbyshire.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (m2CN7)

83 The positive in all this is that the GOP held the ball for 3 months with the clock running on the Obama Administration.

If we weren't getting beat up for the shutdown we would be getting beat up over immigration, gun control etc.

Instead the repubs stopped Obama from doing any more damage for 3 months.

Posted by: robtr at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (rTgOf)

84 44 Oh, goody! A Republican Platform Survey just arrived for me.

*rubs hands together giddily*
Posted by: Jane D'oh

I got one of those. I was tempted to put a sheet of roofing lead in it to cost them more postage....
Then I realized I may need the lead later....

Posted by: backhoe at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (ULH4o)

85 >>>Apparently Boehner has admitted he's waiving the Hastert rule. I assume he knows that he's done as speaker.

His primary rivals for the Speakership have already publicly announced that they support him continued in the position, strongly.

Honestly came as a surprise to me.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (n/+FT)

71 -

Yeah, that too. Figuring out how much water to put in one bucket, then transfer it to another... or something like that. They were in a park.

Surrounded by squirrels, no doubt.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (TOk1P)

87 >>But liberals will ALWAYS insist that the government just wasn't big enough and powerful enough YET. Obama's dad in Kenya published as if a fact that the government has every right to 100% of everyone's income in order to provide for whatever promised needs. So what? We are never going to get liberals to vote our way. Don't need 'em. What we need is the great unwashed middle which is bigger than we are and bigger than the liberals. Obama and the liberals love to promise free shit covered in skittles. Obamacare is shit covered in shit. It is the clearest, most proximate and most painful example of big government. And we can win on running on the reality of Obamacare which is far different than the promise of free shit.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (g1DWB)

23I know a couple people here have stated that the DMV analogy is meaningless now because it's really easy to go to the DMV!

---

Must depend on the state and what you're doing.

Getting my wife's driver's license and car moved over from Mississippi to Louisiana was a massive pain in the ass. Didn't help that it was a multi-purpose state office (DMV, registrar of voters, etc.) which added to the fun by jumping you from line to line with little rhyme or reason.

Getting my own license renewed? Less of an issue because they have storefront offices dedicated to that kind of thing.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 01:30 PM (/Crba)

89 17,000,000,000,000

Posted by: cajun caret at October 16, 2013 01:31 PM (UZQM8)

90 I agree with Cooke. The Obamacare debacle will not lead to single payer. That said.. the strictly go-it-alone system we have had for decades is also unsustainable. It's a mess. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (f9c2L) It was a mess? How so? We had the best health care system in the World. People from all over the world came HERE to care not to Canada or England? Was it perfect- no. Could and should it have been tweeked and improved, sure. But a mess? I don't think so

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:31 PM (UbDLm)

91

Quit talking about my ilk and start minding your own ilk. Nothin' wrong with my ilk.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:31 PM (OZmbA)

92 49 Susan Collins at October 16, 2013 05:24 PM (6TB1Z)

They don't know us very well do they?

//J McQueeg L Grahamnesty

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (9jfyN)

93 Look for the silver lining... http://tinyurl.com/kl6buue

Posted by: Marion Harris at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (MhA4j)

94 Single-payer is actually Medicare for all, which by all accounts is regarded as a success. How this assessment was arrived upon I couldn't tellya. But that's how they'll sell it.

Posted by: spongeworthy at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (r5w1L)

95
Wife wants me to stop off and get a quart of ilk.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (OZmbA)

96 I think my contest sounds a little bit funnier. ;^) Posted by: FenelonSpoke

Funnier? Yes. But my contest has fewer survivors.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (9jLim)

@85

Not really a surprise. No one wants it.

"Oh, so I have a new corner office and now I have to put up with all this shit and corral a bunch of people who cant agree while getting death threats that reek of patchouli? Thanks."

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:32 PM (t06LC)

85>>>Apparently Boehner has admitted he's waiving the Hastert rule. I assume he knows that he's done as speaker.

His primary rivals for the Speakership have already publicly announced that they support him continued in the position, strongly.

---

Yeah, I buy that about as much as a school or pro team's "statement of support" for an embattled football coach.

People are going to test the waters. If Boehner's truly bleeding support and someone can put together a solid coalition to win, he's gone. Problem is that this job doesn't have nearly the prestige it usually does, given that Obama controls the White House and the Searchlight Strangler controls the Senate.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (/Crba)

99 the Dems would need 60 votes in the Senate and control of the House. You think they'll get that?[u\/i]

Possibly.
Posted by: Susan Collins

Is that History I hear calling?

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (Hx5uv)

100 Anything that goes wrong with Obama Care (including insurance companies going bankrupt), will, in the end, be blamed on corporations, wreckers, kulaks, enemies of the people, and greed. The diagnosis will always be "not enough Government/Obama" and an increasingly-impoverished and ignorant population will cling to the Government ever more tightly. Because "Hope and Change." And demagoguery. And the Middle Class. And Ted Kruise. And the Media.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (P3dws)

101
Would've paid my taxes if it weren't for that ilk problem.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (OZmbA)

102

85 -

I suspect the sunrise surprises you every morning.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (TOk1P)

103 You're right, the deck I built for you is a piece of shit. I should totally build you a new house.

Posted by: Dang at October 16, 2013 01:33 PM (Hx2XA)

104 >>>Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat. Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive.

It's not just a day of defeat. To a lessor extent it's much like Wednesday November 7th. We are faced not only with defeat, but with a soul crushing feeling that we never really can win, at least the way things are aligned and trending now. Getting your hopes dashed is much more painful than simply losing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 16, 2013 01:34 PM (0q2P7)

105 Problem is that this job doesn't have nearly the prestige it usually does, given that ~~Obama controls the White House and the Searchlight Strangler controls the Senate.~~ Beohner has debased it power like a crying whore.

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:34 PM (CMlD4)

106
You know what goes with a good nap on the beach? Nice glass of ilk.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:34 PM (OZmbA)

107 104 You're right, the deck I built for you is a piece of shit. I should totally build you a new house.

Depends. Does it come with an Obamapho?

Posted by: LIV at October 16, 2013 01:35 PM (6TB1Z)

108 Blah blah blah blah enjoying the affections of the nasty dirty but hot German chick, Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 05:26 PM (TOk1P) blah blah blah blah FIFM.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 01:35 PM (VtjlW)

109 Anything that goes wrong with Obama Care (including insurance companies going bankrupt) ???? You guys don't get it. No Private Insurance Company is going bankrupt, at least not because of health insurance. They will get out of the field way way way before that happens and actually they are as we speak in every State in this Country, some faster than others. And that is what will drive us to a single payor system.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:35 PM (UbDLm)

110 The thing that always scares me is the knowledge that our cousins, the British, voted for the NHS. And even today, there's no serious movement to eliminate it. Posted by: toby928 --------- The difference is that when the NHS was created, it was right after WWII. Britain was severely weakened, financially and spiritually. Remember there was still food ration books being issued in 1954. There was no chance that there would be any resistance from the average citizen, who before the NHS got their care from charity hospitals or teaching hospitals. Flash forward to today and the system is so entrenched that even Maggie Thatcher, who de-nationalized nearly every industry in Britain, lamented many times that the only thing she was not able to touch was the NHS. America has lived too long with a semi-private system, and I don't think they'd take too kindly to the poor level of service that is the hallmark of the NHS.

Posted by: flmom at October 16, 2013 01:36 PM (nSjrf)

111 Ilk. I soak my eyebrows in it.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:36 PM (OZmbA)

112 43---"Leaving that aside, the Dems would need 60 votes in the Senate and control of the House. You think they'll get that?" Posted by: Jeff B. at October 16, 2013 05:23 PM (n/+FT) -------------------- Well, they did have that in 2009, which is how we got this monstrosity to begin with. They could easily get that much power again.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 16, 2013 01:36 PM (dfYL9)

113 "But if Obamacare fails technically, too, and the memories of trying for weeks just to create a government account linger in the minds of the public Â—perhaps even leading to an embarrassing delay" People's memories mostly consist of the last thing they saw on TeeVee. RED SKINS!!!111 Because Liberty.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:36 PM (P3dws)

114 Yeah ... Single Payer is dead now ... Just like Crime Statistics will stop the assault on the 2nd Ammendment .... Just like the Housing Bubble put the clamps on Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac ... Just like failing Public Schools will break the Teachers Unions .... Just like the Detroit Bankruptcy and Chicago Crime will open everyone's eyes ... Yeah ... Like that.

Posted by: ScoggDog at October 16, 2013 01:37 PM (9GkJE)

115

@104

Spot on.

Someone pointed out last week that we're always behind the 8 ball because we don't control the conversation and once the "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE" shrieking begins, we've already lost because we're the fuck no it doesn't caucus. By even engaging in negotiations we're moving towards what the lefties want. That was pretty insightful. Maybe that was ace, I don't remember.

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:37 PM (t06LC)

116

The single payer argument could only make sense if it was a federal system, and not 50 different state systems. The enemy of single payer is competition and diversity.

Posted by: Comrade Roberto Luongo at October 16, 2013 01:37 PM (wsLRF)

117

"Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat. Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive."

Forget it, Ace, this is China-Town.

Posted by: MtTB at October 16, 2013 01:37 PM (8E9QA)

118 That said.. the strictly go-it-alone system we have had for decades is also unsustainable. It's a mess. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (f9c2L) We didn't have a strictly go-it-alone system, we had a heavily regulated, largely designed-by-government system, that just depended on private entities more than currently. *Before* that, what we had was primitive, so comparisons are difficult, but *much* less expensive.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at October 16, 2013 01:37 PM (qyfb5)

119 And we can win on running on the reality of Obamacare which is far different than the promise of free shit. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:30 PM (g1DWB) Given that every taxpayer's taxes increase immensely, and the promises are hollow, victory still depends on who counts the votes. Btw, would you really be surprised if the "free shit" welfare recipients get Obamacare with subsidized payments -- for promotional "success" propaganda?

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (MhA4j)

120 House Repubs gave Boehner a standing ovation at their conference meeting. This was after he said he'd break the Hastert Rule (if necessary).

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (ZPrif)

121 The thing that always scares me is the knowledge that our cousins, the British, voted for the NHS. And even today, there's no serious movement to eliminate it. Posted by: toby928 They also have all the street sign in London in Arabic and people die waiting for care there. As a matter of fact there is a case right now in England that someone is suing the NHS for just that. And no-one goes to England for great medical care. Some model to emulate

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (UbDLm)

122 Well the gravity of the situation speaks for itself. That said; The only option is the appointment of a Blue Ribbon Commission. the Bi-partisan approval will determine the outcome. As long as the program shall address the inner city youth situation. We will end this post with an across the isle agreement.

Posted by: Jet Built Around Cannon at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (70CRT)

123
All these Confederate Tea Party people keep messing with my ilk.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (OZmbA)

124 The difference is that when the NHS was created, it was right after WWII. Britain was severely weakened, financially and spiritually. Remember there was still food ration books being issued in 1954. There was no chance that there would be any resistance from the average citizen, who before the NHS got their care from charity hospitals or teaching hospitals.

Every time I marvel at how quickly things have gone downhill here, I try to remember this example. The Brits went from the world's superpower to an afterthought in about 3 years. It must have been a horrible experience.

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:38 PM (6TB1Z)

125 Not to say this stuff isn't true, but I'm trying to accentuate the positive." Forget it, Ace, this is China-Town. +heh

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 01:39 PM (MhA4j)

126 >>???? You guys don't get it. No Private Insurance Company is going bankrupt, at least not because of health insurance. They will get out of the field way way way before that happens and actually they are as we speak in every State in this Country, some faster than others. And that is what will drive us to a single payor system. Medicare exists. And there are tons of companies in every state in the union that specialize in Medicare plus type plans. Insurance companies aren't going anywhere.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 01:39 PM (g1DWB)

127 More proof were living in Bassckwards World, the headline on Drudge:

STANDING OVATION FOR BOEHNER

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:39 PM (Hx5uv)

128 Obama and the liberals love to promise free shit covered in skittles. Obamacare is shit covered in shit. Posted by: JackStraw

You know how His Lowness gets around this? He favors the treatment and access and lower costs to his FSA at your expense.

Posted by: dogfish at October 16, 2013 01:39 PM (nsOJa)

129 Stop trying to cheer me up. The RINOs proved they are worthless. I knew they were, but the sudden but expected betrayal....

Posted by: blaster at October 16, 2013 01:39 PM (4+AaH)

130

@121

You forgot the price distorting effects of employer provided insurance, free riders, and the Medicaid/Medicare effect.

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:40 PM (t06LC)

131 I have advocated a simple safety-net system that provides all Americans with catastrophic protection Which is precisely why O'Care eliminates catastrophic policies unless you're under 30 or an impoverished 30-plus. It would make too much sense, and offers too little control.

Posted by: jakeman at October 16, 2013 01:40 PM (vH4YP)

132 The enemy of single payer is competition and diversity. Posted by: Comrade Roberto Luongo at October 16, 2013 05:37 PM (wsLRF) I guess you did not read the law? The Gov dictates what has to be in the coverage so not much differance between plans either than deductibles and co-pays. And with private companies getting the hell out as fast as their little feet can carry them, what competition? It's been rigged and fixed from the get go

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:40 PM (UbDLm)

133 STANDING OVATION FOR BOEHNER

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 05:39 PM (Hx5uv)

That's what my wife gives me.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:40 PM (OZmbA)

134 IT'S. THE. LAW.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 16, 2013 01:40 PM (oFCZn)

135

Beohner has debased it power like a crying whore.

---

That does not help matters, true.

The appeal of the Speaker position, IMHO, is that you get to take credit for all the good legislative things coming through the House.

Problem is that the GOP establishment, in general, wants a lot of the same stuff as the Democrats and gets upset that the "wacko birds" are trying to interfere with their plans.

A Speaker who could win this situation would be one with some iron balls and a spine. Problem is that balls *for dealing with the opposite party* are in short supply when it comes to the kinds of Republicans who have the juice to win a leadership spot. The ones we get are more f*ckers like Trent Lott who would rather cut the balls off one of their own guys who challenged them than to take on the Dims.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 01:41 PM (/Crba)

136 It must have been a horrible experience. ----------- Fortunately for me, I wasn't around until '58 so the suckiness seemed normal.

Posted by: flmom at October 16, 2013 01:41 PM (nSjrf)

137 You know what they'll give Boehner when they kick him out of the Speakership?; a Standing Ovation.

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:41 PM (CMlD4)

138
I can usually get one when I take my ilk.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:41 PM (OZmbA)

139 I always liked this soliloquy from blood Simple:

The world is full o' complainers. An' the fact is, nothin' comes with a guarantee. Now I don't care if you're the pope of Rome, President of the United States or Man of the Year; somethin' can all go wrong. Now go on ahead, y'know, complain, tell your problems to your neighbor, ask for help, 'n watch him fly. Now, in Russia, they got it mapped out so that everyone pulls for everyone else... that's the theory, anyway. But what I know about is Texas, an' down here... you're on your own.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (Hx5uv)

140

@127

I'd say that the UK was doomed after WW1. Too much money spent and a good portion of a generation of men lost. They never really recovered.

WW2 and socialized medicine just sped up the decline.

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (t06LC)

141 137 IT'S. THE. LAW. Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 16, 2013 05:40 PM (oFCZn) It applies to you. Not to us. American Exemptionalism

Posted by: Political Insiders at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (MhA4j)

142 If it fails technically, the Left will still blame private enterprise. They always do, and they always get away with it...

Posted by: The Political Hat at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (XvHmy)

143
And I don't feel a nap coming on.

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (OZmbA)

144 Medicare exists. And there are tons of companies in every state in the union that specialize in Medicare plus type plans. Insurance companies aren't going anywhere. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:39 PM (g1DWB) ???? Medicare is a Gov Run Program so not sure what your point is? And the supplemental plans are just that "Supplimental" not meant to stand on their own. And Private Companies are getting out of the Health Field left and right, faster in some States than others, but the hand writing is on the wall

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:42 PM (UbDLm)

145 From the link
Representative Peter King of New York urged more Republican officials to speak up about Senator Ted Cruz and Â“condemn him for what he did.Â”

Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats.

Can we cue the firing squad for these halfwits?

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:43 PM (6TB1Z)

146 "Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat." Sure. Obama won. Obama won the right to inflict Obama Care on everyone. Which is no victory at all. For anyone. Republicans, on the other hand, are on the record as having been willing to stand up to Democrats in order to delay Obama Care. Not that it matters, though, because the Media decides what's what.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:43 PM (P3dws)

147
But when that hot Caribbean sun hits you . . . and with all that extra change in your pocket weighing you down, you just want to lie down . . . and. Yawn . . . you, know?

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 01:44 PM (OZmbA)

148 Which is precisely why O'Care eliminates catastrophic policies unless you're under 30 or an impoverished 30-plus. It would make too much sense, and offers too little control.

--

Yep. The biiiiig push for Ocare was the pleading and wailing about the we-must-do-something-for-the-??uninsured!11!!

What happened was a complete upending of everyone else's policies so that they now have to be compliant. Effing with what 85% of the public already had is a very different thing that the zomg! we must do something for the uninsureds.

Posted by: Lady in Black at October 16, 2013 01:44 PM (XB5Ak)

149 >>You know how His Lowness gets around this? He favors the treatment and access and lower costs to his FSA at your expense. Sure, but its not just you and me. There are lots and lots of middle of the roaders who voted for Obama and other liberals because they seemed so wise and caring, giving free health care to all those poor people. Now reality is sinking in. We always knew this was coming but millions of people are just getting their sticker shock now. They will be persuadable in 2014.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 01:44 PM (g1DWB)

150 Something I don't get. Of all the universal health care systems out there, only Canada and a handful of others are single payer. All those european countries still have a private insurance network, regardless of how small it is; only Canada is single payer. So why the drum beat for single payer if much of the rest of the world isn't?

Posted by: h0mi at October 16, 2013 01:45 PM (zpJBl)

151 Now reality is sinking in. We always knew this was coming but millions of people are just getting their sticker shock now. They will be persuadable in 2014. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:44 PM (g1DWB) Yes that is our best hope.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:45 PM (UbDLm)

152 144 @127

I'd say that the UK was doomed after WW1. Too much money spent and a good portion of a generation of men lost. They never really recovered.
WW2 and socialized medicine just sped up the decline. Posted by: Jollyroger

And yet the Germans suffered even worse losses and managed to take on most of the rest of the world in 20 short years. I don't know if that was superior genetics or a death wish, or some combination of the two.

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:45 PM (6TB1Z)

153 Oh Ace you funny little ewok, trying to accentuate the positive on a day of crushing defeat. Obamacare, ACA or whatever you want to call it is here to stay, until the damn place burns. We are nothing more than mere serfs, peasants or slaves to the ruling class & their governmental minions/court jesters. We are now in the first or 2nd stage of a total dictatorship. To the left the ends justify the means. Look at the black robes, look at the EPA, look at the NSA, ad nausea, Thanks for trying to lift my spirits, nice try it is appreciated

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 16, 2013 01:45 PM (HVff2)

154 WW2 and socialized medicine just sped up the decline. ---------- Along with Harold Wilson and the Labour Party with an assist from the unions.

Posted by: flmom at October 16, 2013 01:45 PM (nSjrf)

155 I like Cooke, but he just does not get it. I don't know if it's because of his British-ness, and he that hasn't been in this country all that long.

The left doesn't operate under rational, sane, common sense principles.

Of course they will use this as an excuse for more government action, and single payer ultimately.

The fucking criminal establishment right will naturally go along. They are operating under the same fucking delusion that they are permanently isolated from the ramifications due to their elite, protected status

We're fucked

Posted by: Albie Damned at October 16, 2013 01:46 PM (Yhu4q)

156 off topic but interesting:
http://www.infowars.com/ chase-bank-limits-cash-withdrawals- bans-international-wire-transfers/

(take out spaces)

Posted by: mallfly at October 16, 2013 01:46 PM (bJm7W)

157
>>>His primary rivals for the Speakership have already publicly announced that they support him continued in the position, strongly.

That may be so. Waiving the Hastert rule is a thumb in the eye to the majority of the caucus. His top supporters will likely lose credibility for backing Boehner, not Boehner gain it. But Boehner *WILL* continue as speaker. Because the Dems will collude to support him as a coalition speaker rather than allow a potentially more conservative speaker to be elected by Republican party line vote. Knowing that, the Republicans, even if a majority won't support him, won't oppose him, because it's better to remain in line with a speaker of your party you can't ouster, than to oppose him. So Boehner is not in any real trouble until 2014 elections. Now if Boehner could be ousted, he would step down, because it would hurt him less to do that than suffer the loss. Right now Dems I bet *LOVE* our speaker of the house, so he isn't going anywhere. There is no need to play this game.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 16, 2013 01:46 PM (0q2P7)

158 What ever, we're 17.5 trillion in the hole.

We can't mathematically or politically pay it off so let's raise it to 24 trillion and give everyone "free" government run healthcare and destroy the country for reals.

As as former Secretary of State famously said. "What does it matter anymore!"

Posted by: Kreplach at October 16, 2013 01:46 PM (igI2x)

159 "149 From the link Representative Peter King of New York urged more Republican officials to speak up about Senator Ted Cruz and Â“condemn him for what he did.Â” Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats. Can we cue the firing squad for these halfwits? Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 05:43 PM (6TB1Z)" If teh Ted Cruz is the archetype/stereotype of farrightiness (sic), what's wrong with being far right? People simply cannot think any sufficiently-complex thought.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (P3dws)

160

No surprise, particularly here in California, after the Supreme Court's treatment of Prop 8, but...

I've just learned that a Pensions-related initiative that will be on the ballot here in California includes an interesting new clause. It states that in the event the governor and/or state attorney general decline to defend the initiative in court (assuming that it passes a popular vote), the act grants "... formal authority to the proponents to defend this Act in any legal proceedings..."

Posted by: junior at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (UWFpX)

161

At the last GOP conference meeting of the two-week government shutdown, no lawmakers went to the microphones to give their take.

Instead, after Speaker John Boehner told Republicans they had Â“fought the good fight,Â” they all rose up to offer a standing ovation. Â“It was one of the easiest meetings weÂ’ve ever had,Â” says Representative Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina.

Â“I think he has strengthened his position in leadership,Â” Representative John Fleming says about Boehner. Â“He hung in there with us. HeÂ’s been reluctant to go to these fights and now that we have stood up and fought for our values and heÂ’s been there with us, leading, I think his stock has risen tremendously. He has great security as our leader and our speaker.Â”

---

Yeah, they can all agree on surrendering with dignity.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (Hx5uv)

162 Make it crystal clear to people that Obamacare is what you get when you support liberal big government. That is the rallying cry and it will be powerful. Pain is very clarifying. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:20 PM (g1DWB) *********************************** This time next year, the marginal voter is not going to remember the ins and outs of who got what on the bill and the difference between a CR and the debt limit. But he or she will see that Obamacare is a disaster and remember vaguely that the Republicans shut down the government for 2 weeks trying to stop it. This is a win, big time.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (QVC7W)

163 "'The government couldn't even run a website without it turning into the DMV,' they will be able to say. 'Do you want them in charge of the whole damn thing?'"

And that's a load of crap. We can already make that argument about EVERYTHING the government operates. Every. Damn. Thing. And yet the programs continue to exist, get funding, and become yet more entrenched even as they become more unwieldy. And when ObamaCare becomes "too big to fail," single-payer will move right in whether voters want it or not.

My God is that a pathetic reed to grab.

Luv ya', Ace, and I'm not blaming you for the story. I blame the author.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (eHIJJ)

164 And Jane? The cute- or crazy- Cat Lady I might be seeing had a Criminal Trespass case against her dismissed on the trial date. That's the one I put my house up as "surety" to bail her out of jail last summer. I selected the lawyer who accomplished this, so maybe I haven't lost my touch.

And I'm pretty content with life. It goes where it goes....
"Cast my Fate to the wind...."

Posted by: backhoe at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (ULH4o)

165 Â“The government couldnÂ’t even run a website without it turning into the DMV,Â”

The DMV's websites work.

Posted by: DaveA at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (DL2i+)

166 >>???? Medicare is a Gov Run Program so not sure what your point is? And the supplemental plans are just that "Supplimental" not meant to stand on their own. And Private Companies are getting out of the Health Field left and right, faster in some States than others, but the hand writing is on the wall I thought my point was pretty self-evident. Medicare didn't kill the private insurance industry. Insurance companies found ways to work around it and they are still doing well. Obamacare could be crippled in a few months and ended if we can win the Senate in 2014. Insurance companies aren't going anywhere in the next 12 months.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (g1DWB)

167 I don't think that writer gets the point. obamacare, as it is formulated now, WILL drive all the private insurance companies out of the market.
Posted by: Nevergiveup

Key point: Drive them out of THE health care market not insurance altogether.

Also a few of the larger ones will still exist if only to be the DotGov contractor for the O-care mess.

Here's a Q: suppose a 2017 GOP Congress put together an option for interstate private insurance, do you think insurance companies couldn't have policies available within months?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (j149p)

168 HA HA HA Ha...this reminds me of when "conservatives" said Roberts was playing 4D chess and Obamacare being ruled Constitutional was actually great for conservatism! LOL You think this hurts the case for Single Payer!? When Obamacare fails, the media and the Left will say SEE THIS IS WHY WE NEED SINGLE PAYER! And guess what!? THEY WILL GET IT! It is just a matter of time. House members are being quoted RIGHT NOW saying that Dickless Boner should "CUT OUT" tea party reps and join with "centrist dems," to "get things done."

Posted by: Dan at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (m3gf3)

169 Medicare exists. And there are tons of companies in every state in the union that specialize in Medicare plus type plans.
*******
In fact, Obamacare is funded, in part, by taking away funding from the Medicare Plus programs. It's just that the Dems have postponed this several times because they know that it's a political loser for elections since old people vote. Obama hates, hates, these programs. Whether they actually ever go away is anyone's guess; their cancellation has been postponed at least twice already

Posted by: jeannebodine at October 16, 2013 01:47 PM (2LJqa)

170 Pointing to a giant pile of shit hasn't stopped any leftist nonsense yet has it?

Posted by: DaveA at October 16, 2013 01:48 PM (DL2i+)

171

That said.. the strictly go-it-alone system we have had for decades is also unsustainable. It's a mess.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (f9c2L)

-----------------------------------------------

WTF? I liked my insurance. I worked hard to get to a place where I could get that coverage. Just because some baby-mama can't get off her ass and start working to contribute to her own well-being doesn't mean that I and people like me have to be penalized with a system that's going to fuck up medicine beyond any repair.

And I'm not alone. 60% of Americans feel the same as me. IT WAS NOT A MESS! So fuck you.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 01:48 PM (3Mz5/)

172 Now reality is sinking in.

Reality came to me today in the form of a memo. It said that in order for me to meet my obligations under ACA, I needed to be enrolled in a Federal Employee health plan. Now I know that that's small beer for many folks who are experiencing much worse, but I fully expect my premium to skyrocket.

However, my point is that my first reaction was "who the FUCK are you to tell me what my health care obligations are?".

Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 01:48 PM (6TB1Z)

173 Everything the left does fails. But the public still votes en masse for the govt to do more. So Obamacare could be the absolute worst run program ever. And people will still vote for the govt to have more control over health care. People at the end of the day aren't very smart.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 01:49 PM (JhvwR)

174 Something I don't get. Of all the universal health care systems out there, only Canada and a handful of others are single payer. All those european countries still have a private insurance network --------- Look closely and you'll see those private insurance networks exist as a perk to upper management and CEO's of large corporations. Those who have those policies are able to jump to the front of the line and, in the case of Britain, have the ability to see the best specialists Harley Street has to offer. For the rest of the chumps, not so much.

Posted by: flmom at October 16, 2013 01:49 PM (nSjrf)

175 HA HA HA Ha...this reminds me of when "conservatives" said Roberts was playing 4D chess and Obamacare being ruled Constitutional was actually great for conservatism! LOL

---

The failure of Zerocare will lead to calls to, I can't say it, rhymes with "haze faxes."

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 01:49 PM (Hx5uv)

176 Mark Sanford still hasn't married his bimbo? What's he waiting for? I'ts been how many years now?

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 16, 2013 01:50 PM (shXYq)

177 Yeah, they can all agree on surrendering with dignity.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 05:47 PM (Hx5uv)

Boehner's biggest concern was how big a white flag to order to properly signal the cave!!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 16, 2013 01:50 PM (XdnQT)

178 Single payer is coming a lot sooner than you think... just as soon as I get the gavel back.

Obamacare is adding dozens of divisions to our Free Shit Army.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at October 16, 2013 01:50 PM (A+/8k)

179 The DMV's websites work. Posted by: DaveA at October 16, 2013 05:47 PM (DL2i+) ___________ Very true. And in the states that ran their own Obamacare exchanges, the rollout went fairly smoothly. State govt usually runs OK, not great, but a hell of a lot smoother than the feds.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 01:50 PM (JhvwR)

180 I don't know if that was superior genetics or a death wish, or some combination of the two.
Posted by: pep

Less buggery

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:51 PM (CMlD4)

181 173 I don't think that writer gets the point. obamacare, as it is formulated now, WILL drive all the private insurance companies out of the market. Posted by: Nevergiveup Key point: Drive them out of THE health care market not insurance altogether. ----------- See my post at 180. That's the business insurance companies will chase.

Posted by: flmom at October 16, 2013 01:52 PM (nSjrf)

182 Â“The government couldnÂ’t even run a website without it turning into the DMV...Do you want them in charge of the whole damn thing?Â” Are we talking about ORCA? That's a good question...

Posted by: t-bird at October 16, 2013 01:52 PM (FcR7P)

183 Whats the penalty if an insurance company offers a non-Ocare compliant policy?

Posted by: Jean at October 16, 2013 01:53 PM (CMlD4)

184 "155 Something I don't get. Of all the universal health care systems out there, only Canada and a handful of others are single payer. All those european countries still have a private insurance network, regardless of how small it is; only Canada is single payer. So why the drum beat for single payer if much of the rest of the world isn't? Posted by: h0mi at October 16, 2013 05:45 PM (zpJBl)" Single payer is "full Socialist." Leftists are... "purists." Fanatical purists. At least when it comes to health care. And Gayness. And abortion. And guns. And green jobs. And equality/fairness/whatever. And a whole bunch of other crap. But, it's true, they are ok with some sort of "mixed-market economy." Because Galbraith or whatever.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:53 PM (P3dws)

185 Single Payer is not the hill to die on, I'm tired of teaching the poodles to know that the tea party is going to screw everything up by going against single payer.

Posted by: Reality Man at October 16, 2013 01:53 PM (Cs9Ps)

186 Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 05:48 PM (6TB1Z) But we know what is best for you pep-the government On that note enough of this madness until ONT

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 16, 2013 01:53 PM (HVff2)

187 And in the states that ran their own Obamacare exchanges, the rollout went fairly smoothly. State govt usually runs OK, not great, but a hell of a lot smoother than the feds.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo

States like Hawaii hired the same contractor, CGI, to set up their exchange.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 16, 2013 01:53 PM (j149p)

188 What I am afraid of, however, is that they will also be persuadable to the idea of "reforming" Obamacare. Steyn has been talking in these terms for years. Once healthcare is under the feds, every election will simply be about politicians boasting they have a way to "make it work better." There's no way to bring a wrecking ball to it and start over.

Posted by: jakeman at October 16, 2013 01:54 PM (vH4YP)

189 72 I agree with Cooke. The Obamacare debacle will not lead to single payer. That said.. the strictly go-it-alone system we have had for decades is also unsustainable. It's a mess. I have advocated a simple safety-net system that provides all Americans with catastrophic protection - but through private insurers who would be free to sell you any level of insurance (or none) that covers anything between zero dollars and the amount where the catastrophic safety net kicks in. This is paid for by a very small payroll deduction. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (f9c2L) _________________ Oh a "very small deduction". Like what 1%? Great. Until it goes to 2%. Then 3, then 10, then 12.4. Think that can't happen? Think again. That's exactly what happened with Social Security. Started out as a "very small" deduction of 1%. Fast forward 75 years and that 1% is now 12.4%.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 01:54 PM (JhvwR)

190 161 off topic but interesting: http://www.infowars.com/ chase-bank-limits-cash-withdrawals- bans-international-wire-transfers/ (take out spaces) Posted by: mallfly at October 16, 2013 05:46 PM (bJm7W) *************************** I got one of those. Alex Jones of course thinks it's part of a big conspiracy to lock down the money Cyprus-style. I think it's because Chase has discovered that its anti-money laundering processes and software are weak, and they don't want to get hit with big fines like HSBC and Barclays, so they're proactively taking measures to protect themselves.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 16, 2013 01:54 PM (QVC7W)

191 . Started out as a "very small" deduction of 1%. Fast forward 75 years and that 1% is now 12.4%. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 05:54 PM (JhvwR) ________________ And the whole thing is still trillions in the red.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 01:54 PM (JhvwR)

192 I don't think Obamacare is going to get easier to repeal over time. Just the opposite, as we've seen with every government program out there. The constituencies that benefit from it will pour resources into protecting it. So, good luck.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at October 16, 2013 01:55 PM (p7BzH)

193 my conspiracy theory is that the government knows they have to go single payer because they'll go bankrupt (omg their pensions!) pretty soon if they can't steal a bunch of cream off the top of that 1/6th of the US economy.

Posted by: X at October 16, 2013 01:55 PM (KHo8t)

194 And the whole thing is still trillions in the red.

And I'm never going to see a penny of my 12.4%

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs to skip the beer and go straight to tequila at October 16, 2013 01:56 PM (/kI1Q)

195 I thought my point was pretty self-evident. Medicare didn't kill the private insurance industry. Insurance companies found ways to work around it and they are still doing well. Obamacare could be crippled in a few months and ended if we can win the Senate in 2014. Insurance companies aren't going anywhere in the next 12 months. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:47 PM (g1DWB) Medicare is aimed at the over 65 crowd, not the whole population. Huge difference. And sure they will get out of the Health Care Field and watch from the sidelines. If obamacare fails totally and is drastically modified or repealed then sure they can jump back in, but as it is now formulated there is NO way Private Insurance Companies can and will continue to function as usual. They will only be for the super rich

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:56 PM (UbDLm)

196 There's no way to bring a wrecking ball to it and start over. Posted by: jakeman at October 16, 2013 05:54 PM (vH4YP) ******************************* I'm pretty sure that at some point the credit markets are going to do that for us. The next 10 years are going to be all about dismantling.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 16, 2013 01:56 PM (QVC7W)

197 GOP Rep's Schock(IL) and Boustany(La) ripping on the Tea Party publicly today. Primary these idiots

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 01:56 PM (wr5oB)

198 One hill is as good as any. Just die already.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 01:57 PM (a6O1A)

199 Insurance companies aren't going anywhere in the next 12 months. Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 05:47 PM (g1DWB) Oh and I did not say the next 12 months. It is already happening but will play out over a few years

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:58 PM (UbDLm)

200 Until the GOP gets new leadership, none of this matters. They will fold every time, and the socialist party knows it

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 01:58 PM (wr5oB)

201 Unfortunately, as usual, the politicians see a problem, no matter how exaggerated, and they *have* to stick their fat grubbies in it

They see an Opportunity to stick their fat grubbies in and demagogue up a problem.

Posted by: DaveA at October 16, 2013 01:58 PM (DL2i+)

202 I'm pretty sure that at some point the credit markets are going to do that for us. The next 10 years are going to be all about dismantling. Heck, I hope you're right. I just feel like we're always Wile E. Coyote. There was a great article a few years ago that talked about how GenXers empathized more with him than the Roadrunner, and I resemble that remark.

Posted by: jakeman at October 16, 2013 01:58 PM (vH4YP)

203 "157 144 @127 I'd say that the UK was doomed after WW1. Too much money spent and a good portion of a generation of men lost. They never really recovered. WW2 and socialized medicine just sped up the decline. Posted by: Jollyroger And yet the Germans suffered even worse losses and managed to take on most of the rest of the world in 20 short years. I don't know if that was superior genetics or a death wish, or some combination of the two. Posted by: pep at October 16, 2013 05:45 PM (6TB1Z)" Genetics probably had very little to do with it. (A modern economy is too complex a system to be the sole product of, or limited solely by, or even influenced that much by, genetic determinism). But this sort of thinking is where a fanatical desire to popularize Darwinism seems to lead.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (P3dws)

204 Insurance companies are going to be like utility companies. They are still private companies technically, but they can't set rates without govt approval, they can't decide what service to provide without govt approval. They are just administrators of govt programs. Aside from the letter head, there is no difference between your local utility company and the govt.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (JhvwR)

205 The Insurance companies, along with Big Pharma, backed Obamacare in 2009. Why? No competition allowed across state lines or Canada. F them all, let them go bankrupt

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (wr5oB)

206 Leftists as well-intentioned buffoons who somehow managed to murder 300 million people

We really need a vaccine. Esp. if it'd work for Islam too.

Posted by: DaveA at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (DL2i+)

207 US: Iranian proposal most 'serious' US has seen As first round of nuclear talks reaches end, US says Iranian 'level of seriousness and substance' never seen before. Meanwhile, rumors emerge Iran offered to halt enrichment to 20% Hey is that Israel I see being sold down the river?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (UbDLm)

208 Applause for Comrad Boehner. Gude.

Posted by: Josef-Workers Party Enforcer at October 16, 2013 01:59 PM (Cs2tJ)

209

203GOP Rep's Schock(IL) and Boustany(La) ripping on the Tea Party publicly today. Primary these idiots

---

I think Boustany's still butthurt that, when Louisiana lost a Congressional district, Tea Party freshman Jeff Landry ran for re-election against Boustany rather than bow out and let Boustany take his seat.

The state is almost completely controlled by Republicans, but Landry got the hit because the Voting Rights Act protected a majority-minority district in Metro New Orleans.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 02:00 PM (/Crba)

210 "Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat."

I for one don't view the defeat as total.

If Obamacare turns out to be a complete national disaster, the GOP have now positioned themselves to be able to say to the public,

"Hey folks, this thing is a trainwreck, and we worked as hard as we could to stop it, but those darned Democrats said they'd turn off granny's Social Security check rather than change a single line of Obamacare. You want to know who this is on? It's on them."

That could turn out to be a politically productive line of palaver.

Note that if Obamacare is a complete national disaster, and if citing the shutdown showdown becomes politically advantageous, then I expect a huge herd of RINOs to be in there sanctimoniously claiming that they backed the showdown all along, and that they deserve credit for selflessly trying to slow the trainwreck. It's just what RINOs do.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 02:00 PM (gqT4g)

211 Count me as skeptical. This is because a large percentage of the population that thinks the only reason socialism hasn't worked is that the right people weren't in charge.

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 16, 2013 02:00 PM (nTgAI)

212 Obama can now nominate the most radical marxist to the Supreme Court, knowing the GOP does not have the balls to filibuster

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 02:01 PM (wr5oB)

213 I have advocated a simple safety-net system that provides all Americans with catastrophic protection - but through private insurers who would be free to sell you any level of insurance (or none) that covers anything between zero dollars and the amount where the catastrophic safety net kicks in. This is paid for by a very small payroll deduction. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 05:28 PM (f9c2L) I would outlaw insurance. This is where the shit creeps in in the first place.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 02:01 PM (bb5+k)

214 The state is almost completely controlled by Republicans, but Landry got the hit because the Voting Rights Act protected a majority-minority district in Metro New Orleans. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 06:00 PM (/Crba) ****************************** The "Cold Cash" Jefferson seat?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (QVC7W)

215 214. Right Brandon. Maybe Landry should run again against the RINO

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (wr5oB)

216 But this sort of thinking is where a fanatical desire to popularize Darwinism seems to lead.
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney

Once they're rid of us they will achieve Nirvana

There will be the Masters, the Sex Slaves, Domestic Geldings, and Field Geldings

Posted by: Beto at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (VWfCN)

217 When people see the new Obamacare prices, they won't blame Obama. They will blame the eeeeeevil health insurance companies. They don't understand that the insurance companies can no longer set rates. They are simply a pass through mechanism that collects a tax for the federal government. It's not called a tax, it's called a health insurance premium.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (JhvwR)

218 "The state is almost completely controlled by Republicans, but Landry got the hit because the Voting Rights Act protected a majority-minority district in Metro New Orleans."

Gee, and who do we have to thank for re-authorizing the expiring Voting Rights Act? The fucking SCOAMF again?

Nope. It was the George W. Bush administration.

Bushes delenda est.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (gqT4g)

219 I have a feeling that this new deal will fail also.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (a6O1A)

220 Genetics probably had very little to do with it. (A modern economy is too complex a system to be the sole product of, or limited solely by, or even influenced that much by, genetic determinism). But this sort of thinking is where a fanatical desire to popularize Darwinism seems to lead.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 05:59 PM (P3dws)

Hello, Culture ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (nTgAI)

221 "158 Oh Ace you funny little ewok, trying to accentuate the positive on a day of crushing defeat. Obamacare, ACA or whatever you want to call it is here to stay, until the damn place burns. We are nothing more than mere serfs, peasants or slaves to the ruling class & their governmental minions/court jesters. We are now in the first or 2nd stage of a total dictatorship. To the left the ends justify the means. Look at the black robes, look at the EPA, look at the NSA, ad nausea, Thanks for trying to lift my spirits, nice try it is appreciated Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at October 16, 2013 05:45 PM (HVff2)" It's not a defeat. Ted Kruise and his terrible defeat had nothing to do with any of those things. Nothing has changed. (And that's the tragedy.) Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at October 16, 2013 02:02 PM (P3dws)

222 Just trying to pump out the Optimism on a day of defeat. Thanks, but ... were we really defeated? Boehner's specialty is caving in to Hairy Reid, we all know this, and we expected it 2-3 weeks ago. ObamaCare was never going to be defunded, and the debt limit was going to go up, and we all knew this. That the tax on medical instruments was not repealed ... we now have a new ally or two. But consider the other results: 1. Very many more people see that it is the Democratic Senate that is being uncooperative and spending money like they were drunk, and that Teh JEF is clearly lying about his policies and plans. 2. ObamaCare is a modern-day Leftist government program version of the Titanic; the website fails to function, and no one has had any good news about health insurance rates. The Kossaks are almost unable to walk, due to the butt-hurt they are receiving ... from their Dear Leader. 3. The MSM is fracturing. It's one thing to cover for the minor foibles of a successful, or even mostly-successful program, policy, ... but when one fails as spectacularly as ObamaCare (registration and rates), a few of The Deciders simply have to reconsider their policies. The Brightness of The Halo is faltering, and the Press knows it, knows that everyone sees it, and know that they have to start telling the truth. 4. (this is the big one) The Tea Party is energized, and seen to be the only organization fighting for the American people. The important fight is Immigration. ObamaCare can be repealed in 2017, and the healthcare industry and the country can recover in a few months, but Immigration will affect us for 50+ years. I am interested in not adding another ~17 million benefit-receivers to the group of people who can decide on how my taxes are spent. This is the hill to fight on.

Posted by: Arbalest at October 16, 2013 02:03 PM (FlRtG)

223

I'm feeling quite optimistic. That's because I've accepted certain things as inevitable, allowing me to move on to new horizons.

Continued Social and Financial decline has become a certitude, so prepare and move on with life. Checked off.

The above means that politics can be used for entertainment and diversion since the Red-Blue power structure has no intention of doing the work required to arrest the Social/Financial decline. The days of worrying over who has the majority of congress and White House is over. Any minor adjustments needed due to which party is in power are easily accomplished. Checked off.

The horror of Obamacide is more than offset (so far) by my incredibly good health. Plus I'm 64 and don't make much earned income anymore. I should be on the mooch end from what I'm reading. Limbo, but checked off for the moment.

Life is good. I went flyfishing on a beautiful river today and will play rock and roll at a rather loud volume for drunken dancers on Friday night. What a country!

Posted by: Meremortal at October 16, 2013 02:04 PM (1Y+hH)

224 Say we won 51 Senate seats in 2014. What would it mean? Murkowski, Kirk, and Collins are liberals anyways. McStain, Croyn are worthless RINO's along with Corker the Porker.

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 02:04 PM (wr5oB)

225 >>>Something I don't get. Of all the universal health care systems out there, only Canada and a handful of others are single payer. All those european countries still have a private insurance network, regardless of how small it is; only Canada is single payer. So why the drum beat for single payer if much of the rest of the world isn't?

The reason why single payer is not popular is because its
1. Very expensive for the quality of care given.
2. Has a built in bias to *NOT* provide care with no inherent offsetting bias to actually provide it.

The results are truly grim and inhumane. It's where things like the liverpool care pathway get born and used A LOT. Lines for treatment are long with the system HOPING you die waiting for care because that way it doesn't need to be provided.

The problem is, the reason it is this horrible thing, is because it can never have competition. Any one stop no choices shop for healthcare would do the same thing, even if it was private. HMOs had this issue early on until they hemorrhaged customers to PPOs due to their bad reputations and cleaned up there act. But to admit competition is good and benefits health care is to admit a fundamental unfixable undeniable inherent flaw in socialism that betrays it as completely unworkable. And that will never be admitted. So single payer or bust for that crowd.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 16, 2013 02:04 PM (0q2P7)

226 Interesting reading on the failed Canadian gun registry. How it took four re-registrations before the RCMP finally noticed the weapon was stolen. Things like security breaches. Apparent thefts that seemed to know exactly what some gun owners had. A Liberal member on the public dime being paid as a private lobbyist to lobby for the gun registry. And even a polling organisation that seemed to get a hold of the names of everyone on the registry.

Of course the most damming part - how the initial price tag mushroomed from only $2 million to an apparent $2 billion.

http://www.gunsopedia.com/Canadian_gun_registry

Does any of the above sound familiar?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 16, 2013 02:05 PM (bfAee)

227 I saw an article somewhere about a woman in Germany who was in danger of losing her unemployment benefits because she turned down a job in a brothel.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 02:05 PM (a6O1A)

228 New Ace thread up.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 16, 2013 02:06 PM (bfAee)

229 >>Medicare is aimed at the over 65 crowd, not the whole population. Huge difference. And sure they will get out of the Health Care Field and watch from the sidelines. If obamacare fails totally and is drastically modified or repealed then sure they can jump back in, but as it is now formulated there is NO way Private Insurance Companies can and will continue to function as usual. They will only be for the super rich Negatory. Medicare is available to people under 65 and there are shitloads of people using it. Here is a list of Medicare plus insurance companies in just California. And this is the list for people under 65. There is another list for those over 65. http://tinyurl.com/p36wa4k My plan is still in effect through the same insurance company. Sure, my rates went up just like everyone else but they are still alive and kicking and in theory thanks to Obamacare they are getting even more customers. Don't forget, they helped write this piece of shit in exchange for their support.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 02:06 PM (g1DWB)

230 No, actually, outlawing insurance, is what Obamacare does,

Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at October 16, 2013 02:06 PM (Jsiw/)

231 227. Paul Ryan and Cantor want amnesty. If they allow a floor vote, it willbe the end of the GOP for certain

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 02:07 PM (wr5oB)

232 Jackj: "Until the GOP gets new leadership, none of this matters. They will fold every time, and the socialist party knows it"

They're both socialist. It's tough to accept but history is proving it. Both parties have expanded scope, breadth, and cost of government without restraint. Those occasional hiccups where the mere rate of growth dips? An illusion in practice.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 16, 2013 02:08 PM (eHIJJ)

233 >>>Thanks, but ... were we really defeated?

Yes, if Boehner could have held out for the Dems to flinch and actually offer something real. Sure. But what we learned is the dems are willing to go all the way, and we aren't. That means when push comes to shove they always win. What's worse yet, is now the dems know that for certain too. It was a dangerous gambit, but ultimately we had to know how far we could go. And now we do. Not nearly far enough.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 16, 2013 02:09 PM (0q2P7)

234

219The state is almost completely controlled by Republicans, but Landry got the hit because the Voting Rights Act protected a majority-minority district in Metro New Orleans.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 06:00 PM (/Crba)

******************************

The "Cold Cash" Jefferson seat?

---

You are correct, sir.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 16, 2013 02:09 PM (/Crba)

235 Except the media and the Democrats will chalk up technical failure up to the insurance companies. Rises in rates and reduction in coverage will also be the fault of insurance companies. We've done this song and dance before of "surely this colossal screw up of liberal policies will be attributed to liberals!" and been disappointed. Maybe this time will be different because ObamaCare was so highly praised and will be a monumental failure but I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Democrat's ability to convince the LIV's that the rich are to blame.

Posted by: gwelf at October 16, 2013 02:09 PM (+7Usq)

236 If it fails and there is consensus Something Else Must Be Done To Fix This, the usual suspects will blame the evil, greedy insurance companies and the other usual suspects will blame the incompetent big government. The battle for what's next will be won, as always, from the middle. The middle will be influenced by the marketing of why it failed from the usual suspects on both sides, as well as the marketing of the Solution offered for SEMBDTFT. The Right needs to focus on two things...1) make sure the public never forgets that this Solution was Obama's and the Democrats, and their solution failed. Don't let them blame Blame BLAME the failure on insurance companies and Republican obstructionism and every other shibboleth they will grasp for. 2) have our Solution in place, which must not be "back to the way things used to be". We need to show that both ObamaCare and what existed in the 40 or so years before was not Free Market, it was not even insurance, as the regulated and crony capitalized health care market tied to employers and state borders and intertwined with other government programs and entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid had been disconnected from free markets. The Dems will have their Public Option Solution ready to advertise...we'd better have ours ready this time. We certainly didn't have our shit together when ObamaCare sprung up from some speech writer's decision to have Obama say something that sounded meaningful, and the nation paid the price.

Posted by: MostlyRight at October 16, 2013 02:11 PM (w9AQ4)

237 If the following is true, then Cruz' gambit was all worth it

[BREAKING] GOP Rep Raul Labrador: #Immigration reform Is dead after shutdown, via

WASHINGTON -- The bad blood between House Republicans and President Barack Obama has only worsened since the fight over funding the government and paying its debts, and Rep. RaÃºl Labrador (R-Idaho) said Wednesday that it had doomed any chances for immigration reform.

After Labrador said during an event with conservative members that they could no longer trust the president on immigration, HuffPost asked him a simple question: Is it dead?

"I think it is," he replied. "For us to go to a negotiation, to the negotiating table with President Obama after what he has done over the last two and a half weeks, I think would be probably a very big mistake."

Posted by: phreshone at October 16, 2013 02:11 PM (Pr6hk)

238 I'm sure NH voters went with the other man in 2010 instead of Kelly Ayotte. I just put FNC on to hear a clip of her complaining. Didn't she run as Tea Party candidate? She made same mistakes, if not worse, than Scott Brown, started hanging with wrong group. Ayotte was with Graham & McCain last year. As my older brother said Sunday, they're all no good.. I still like Ted Cruz & Mike Lee.

Posted by: CarolT at October 16, 2013 02:12 PM (z4WKX)

239 There is an interesting thing with Obamacare. At first, calling it "Obamacare" was racist. Remember? Then, all of a sudden, the Dems embraced it. Why? Because Obama is far more popular than anything he supports. As such, there will always be something called "Obamacare" because he has nothing else. One thing that comforts me is that the MSM will be spending all of its time in 2016 and beyond keeping him propped up. Imagine...a 2-term president and THIS is his only legacy.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 16, 2013 02:13 PM (T0NGe)

240 "For us to go to a negotiation, to the negotiating table with President Obama after what he has done over the last two and a half weeks, I think would be probably a very big mistake."

And we're just the team to make it!

Posted by: Team GOP at October 16, 2013 02:15 PM (eHIJJ)

241 Maybe this time will be different because ObamaCare was so highly praised and will be a monumental failure but I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Democrat's ability to convince the LIV's that the rich are to blame. Posted by: gwelf at October 16, 2013 06:09 PM (+7Usq) I think what really hurts it is that all of the upper middle class suddenly realizes that, for the purposes of paying for all of the Democrats' risky schemes, they're the rich.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 16, 2013 02:16 PM (T0NGe)

242 It would never be a true single payer. It will be a two-teired system if anything. Those with cash can pay for the doctor and those without sit in a line up. Everyone in Hollywood hills has a doctor on speed dial. Unless the government goes all the way to send doctors to jail for practicing outside the single payer system those that can pay the doctor cash in full will get the care.

They is as movement to allow a two-teired system in Canada and there is on diagnosis. One can go to a private MIR within a week and pay $800 for the service and get great public Cancer treatment started within a few days. Or wait on the system for 8 months and go to the public MIR and be 8 months late in Cancer treatment and it might be too late to do anything.

Posted by: Trevor (@TJexcite) at October 16, 2013 02:18 PM (bkAvJ)

243 it's spelled tier

Posted by: jeanne at October 16, 2013 02:30 PM (WXMyZ)

244 it's spelled tier

Posted by: jeanne at October 16, 2013 06:30 PM (WXMyZ)

Naw, it's spelled "tee-er". Fore!

Posted by: Sir Golfsalot at October 16, 2013 02:33 PM (8Fl6F)

245 I, for one, can't wait for the promised avalanche of critical Obamacare news stories now that the government shutdown is over. I'm sure the New York Times and WaPo have their best writers working on it. They got 'em workin' in shifts.

Posted by: titipu at October 16, 2013 02:40 PM (0iXOG)

246 "We were totally right about Christine O'Donnell and Todd Akin and we could have won these elections if we had not been stabbed-in-the-back by The Establishment that engineered their failure. The Establishment did not engineer their failures. The Establishment predicted their failures, which is not the same thing as causing them." yeah, well judy baar topinka likewise "predicted" jim ryans defeat in illinois after the FUCKIN ASSHOLE thats in the white house right now got the la times to release jim ryans sealed divorce court records...and because of the that OBAMA IS FUCKING PRESIDENT NOW-HOW FUCKING LUDICROUS IS THAT

Posted by: sound awake at October 16, 2013 02:45 PM (wKPt0)

247 as assholish as they were about it, you didnt see any democrats acting like PUSSIES over bob filner UNTIL THERE WASNT ANY OTHER CHOICE BUT TO DROP HIM LIKE A BAD HABIT BECAUSE THEY KNEW BY THEN HE WAS GOING TO BE ARRESTED FOR THE SHIT HE DID

Posted by: sound awake at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (wKPt0)

248 I'm sure people on the left will pine for single payer in perpetuity. But for all practical purposes I can't see it happening, even if the majority of American voters decide it's what they want. Why? There is no money left. We can't borrow our way to single payer, and socialism itself is falling apart around the world because there is nothing left to prop it up. Reality will determine what we can do and it's going to be painful for many, probably for a long time. I am confident, however, that good people and the market will eventually find a way to straighten this out. The days of employer based insurance are probably about over, whatever comes next is going to look a lot different.

Posted by: Stephie at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (TkOOR)

249 our problem if you think about it can really be boiled down to this: TOO MANY OF US ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A BUNCH OF PUSSIES HIDING BEHIND AN ULTRA-THIN VENEER OF WOULD BE ELDER-STATESMANSHIP AND PHONY "POLITICAL WISDOM" *THAT NEVER EVER SEEMS TO WORK* democrats are warriors in the political arena and we are pussies A WARRIOR WILL ALWAYS DEFEAT A PUSSY IN BATTLE UNTIL WE LEARN THAT, WE WILL CONTINUE TO FLOUNDER

Posted by: sound awake at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (wKPt0)

250 Dude, enough with the fucking cap key!

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (shXYq)

251 ObamaCare's Rollout Failures Hurts the Case for Single Payer Only to those capable of rational and analytical thought. For the rest, logic means nothing; they'll still clamor for single-payer.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (vd7A8)

252 237 Jackj: "Until the GOP gets new leadership, none of this matters. They will fold every time, and the socialist party knows it" They're both socialist. It's tough to accept but history is proving it. Both parties have expanded scope, breadth, and cost of government without restraint. Those occasional hiccups where the mere rate of growth dips? An illusion in practice. Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 16, 2013 06:08 PM (eHIJJ) Shared socialist bipartisan values.

Posted by: pelosi put it at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (MhA4j)

253 Structural failure will never stop the left from pushing to expand the scope and power of the state.

Posted by: gm at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (/kBoL)

254 This argument (that failure of Obamacare will push people away from single payer) is based on he notion we have an informed, rational electorate. We don't or else Obama would never have been elected the firsttime, much les sthe second.. So while I hold out hope that it mat be true, it is by no means certain. especially with the treasonous MSM making excuses for the whole fiasco.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (oG53/)

255 Of course, the only reason BroncoBamaCare is failing is because the official title sucks. The 'Patient Peculation and Unaffordable Health Care Act' ? Who thought of that? It's way too long for starters -- none of my backers can remember it correctly or even read it. It's almost like damn thing is written in cursive or something.

Posted by: Bronco Bama at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (1I4sj)

256 George Orwell, we have an electorate that is made up of approximately 50%, maybe a bit more, that donÂ’t know or understand things and/or vote for free things. I believe our Founding Fathers thought that only property owners should vote. I canÂ’t say I agree with that, but there has to be a way to keep the LIVs and FSA from voting.

Posted by: CarolT at October 16, 2013 03:43 PM (z4WKX)

257 Bullshit. Obamacare rollout failures pave the way for single payer, just wait and see.

Posted by: Dirty Old Man at October 16, 2013 04:47 PM (AmJQd)

258 Ace your premise in wrong no one said, that I know of, the failure of Obamacare will cause people to demand single payer. The argument is Obamacare will cripple the private insurance market forcing a single payer system.

Posted by: bobbymike at October 16, 2013 04:53 PM (YFPAQ)

259 ** a drumbeat from the Left Â— and one based upon the argument that Americans canÂ’t have workable universal healthcare while maintaining a diffuse system of private health insurance. ** Point to Australia and tell them to go fuck themselves - what they call impossible has existed Down Under for decades. It beats Canada hands-down. If what they want is a government monopoly, they can go fuck themselves again, with an even more intrusive and damaging object than last time.

Posted by: perturbed at October 17, 2013 04:14 AM (TXq4O)

260 Hell, the DMV could run a better web site...

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at October 17, 2013 05:15 AM (1hM1d)

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