November 19, 2013
— Ace This won't be horrible at all.
I have no idea how this impacts the global economy, or if this would cause a disastrous pullback in Chinese purchase of American debt.
But it seems bad.
So, before getting into the article, let me link this:
Okay, that should make you feel pretty good and balance out the below excerpts.
A $6.6 trillion credit binge during the past five years, encouraged by Beijing policy makers as stimulus to combat a global economic slowdown, now threatens to stoke a debt crisis. At stake are trillions of yuan in bank loans that companies producing everything from ships to steel to solar power are struggling to repay as the worldÂ’s second-largest economy heads for the weakest annual expansion since 1999....
“The 2008 stimulus exacerbated an industrial glut that has been in existence since 2003,” S&P’s Liao said. “We expect the government to take measured steps in a crackdown on overcapacity because they need to weigh the impact on financial stability.”
....
ChinaÂ’s lending spree has created a debt burden similar in magnitude to the one that pushed Asian nations into crisis in the late 1990s, according to Fitch Ratings.
As companies take on more debt, the efficiency of credit use has deteriorated. Since 2009, for every yuan of credit issued, ChinaÂ’s GDP grew by an average 0.4 yuan, while the pre-2009 average was 0.8 yuan, according to Mike Werner, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co.
“If credit allocation in China improves, the ultimate credit cycle and economy downturn will be mitigated,” Werner wrote in an Oct. 21 note to investors. “However, if China continues to rely on debt to fund its economic growth, the country’s ultimate credit cycle will be more severe.”
Posted by: Ace at
10:58 AM
| Comments (289)
Post contains 352 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: lurker_above at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (NSE+f)
that said Ace if you look into it the Chinese have cranked back their US debt buying so we'll just print even more unbacked paper...
the Ben Bukkake way.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (9jfyN)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (bCEmE)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at November 19, 2013 11:01 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Roy at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (eaIpn)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Teh First Lady at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (pMGkg)
Posted by: Muad'dib at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (KjlbF)
Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (sCO74)
Posted by: --- at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Paul Krugman at November 19, 2013 11:02 AM (yFb77)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 19, 2013 11:03 AM (/Crba)
I recall reading articles that mentioned China's empty cities and how China was just building stuff because they didn't know what else to do to keep their economy going. So now the reckoning is coming.
Fun times ahead, fun times ahead.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 19, 2013 11:03 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:03 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Chairman of GM and Inventor of the Volt at November 19, 2013 11:03 AM (j0wOO)
Which is sad I am a bit of a Sinophile at heart actually.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:03 AM (9jfyN)
Posted by: toby928© insists on talking about robots at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (XUKZU)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Chairman of GM and Inventor of the Volt at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Roy at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars [/i] [/b] [/s] at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (ic+2p)
I dream about being Chinese for a day.
Posted by: Thomas Friedman at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (yFb77)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 11:04 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 19, 2013 11:05 AM (f9c2L)
Posted by: The Governor at November 19, 2013 11:05 AM (R6JT1)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 19, 2013 11:05 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Roy at November 19, 2013 03:04 PM (VndSC)
They will find somebody to put the blame on, but fault and blame are not synonyms.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 19, 2013 11:05 AM (hLRSq)
That puppy looks like the what they use for boshintang. I've eaten boshintang a bunch of times when I lived in South Korea. No, I didn't feel invigorated. I've been haunted by those experiences ever since.
Posted by: fastfreefall at November 19, 2013 11:06 AM (5Vw04)
A $6.6 trillion credit binge during the past five years, encouraged by Beijing policy makers as stimulus to combat a global economic slowdown, now threatens to stoke a debt crisis. At stake are trillions of yuan in bank loans that companies producing everything from ships to steel to solar power are struggling to repay as the worldÂ’s second-largest economy heads for the weakest annual expansion since 1999
Why, it's almost like all the talk of "China's going to be the next world superpower" were just a bunch of bullshit or something. LIke maybe everyone (*cough**points at self, among others**cough*) who said that China's "booming" economy was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing were correct. Like maybe all this saber rattling they've been doing lately with Japan is an attempt to distract the population from the impending collapse of their paper-thin economy.
Whoda thunk it?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:06 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: toby928© insists on talking about robots at November 19, 2013 11:07 AM (QupBk)
>>>PBS in Pravda mode over Obama's no-God Gettysburg address.<<<
Nice work by the jagoff. What would have been a side-note now is a big deal because of his f-up. The guy can't even read something schoolkids read correctly.
Posted by: Roy at November 19, 2013 11:07 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Washington Nearsider at November 19, 2013 11:07 AM (fwARV)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 19, 2013 11:07 AM (OCBPC)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Chairman of GM and Inventor of the Volt at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Gary Hartpence at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (yFb77)
I don't mean that metaphorically. It's a serious question...
Posted by: Washington Nearsider at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (fwARV)
Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (GaqMa)
China hasn't been buying our debt since Obama started indiscriminately printing money and that was early in his reign. In fact they started selling off our debt.
I posted a link several months ago to a chart showing the top holders of American debt. The Fed is now the major holder of debt by almost double the next one one the chart.
IOW the Treasury is selling the Fed T-Bills. Otherwise known as monetizing the debt. Currently at the rate of $80B per month. Which is why real inflation is about 20%.
Posted by: Vic at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (FTQyq)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Caliban at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (DrC22)
ESPECIALLY to China.
The Chinese government games the figures on inflation just as every other goddamned government in the world does.
But you can bet that your typical ordinary Chinese worker who is working incredibly hard for insanely long hours to get a paltry paycheck surely does notice that the costs of food and of housing are rising out of sight for them. I've seen occasional estimates of Chinese food price inflation up in the 20% range.
Eventually, Stein's Law will out, and this will stop. I suspect it will stop because the Party has to stop it in order to keep a lid on popular unrest in the PRC.
There will then be large second-order effects in the rest of the world, and especially in the USA.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (gqT4g)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (f9c2L)
Posted by: Curmudgeon, all of the time at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars [/i] [/b] [/s] at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (ic+2p)
Posted by: Vic at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (FTQyq)
Posted by: Jim Scrummy at November 19, 2013 11:08 AM (6T8Ay)
Posted by: joncelli at November 19, 2013 11:09 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 19, 2013 11:09 AM (r+7wo)
Posted by: Killerdog at November 19, 2013 11:09 AM (j3ogR)
Posted by: Mainah at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (659DL)
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 19, 2013 03:09 PM (wNF3N)
Is there a Kaiju Class 3 sighting?
Posted by: EC at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (VtjlW)
The solar panel con job companies are *my* favorite...BUT let's not gloss over a few disquieting things.
1) the Chinese have western trained engineers now, and have gotten a lot of free R+D
2) the factories are real and if they get their Mao on they can turn out a lot of shit through forced labor.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (9jfyN)
Posted by: tcn at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (3kDQa)
Posted by: Soona - Navigator/wants to retire to the Grand Cayman Island at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (66ULQ)
Posted by: Shrillary at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (yFb77)
54 When will Barky O'DoucheCanoe do something properly?
--------------
Do something properly?? Let me introduce my balloon-knot.
Posted by: Reggie L. at November 19, 2013 11:10 AM (8GKDa)
Posted by: Mainah at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (659DL)
Posted by: Jim Scrummy at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (6T8Ay)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: Severe Conservative riding Orca at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (QF8uk)
as I said then "get back to me when they can consistently offer their people socks, BUT *we* are being ran by Kremlin types these days
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:11 AM (9jfyN)
Posted by: Barky at November 19, 2013 11:12 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:12 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: bicentennialguy at November 19, 2013 11:12 AM (vg8iE)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 19, 2013 11:12 AM (71LDo)
So the stimulus made it measurably, empirically worse?
Awesome. Go team.
Posted by: Washington Nearsider at November 19, 2013 03:07 PM (fwARV)
It's not ALL bad. They used a lot of that money to build enormous cities where nobody lives, military equipment that falls apart, high speed trains that go slower than the bus, and bridges that tend to collapse.
I mean, we've got all that stuff, too, but it took us YEARS to get there.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: Barky at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 03:08 PM (VtjlW)
His very existence is an insult to me and my fellow Hobbits.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (4df7R)
No longer satisfied with trillions Japan has moved into the quadrillion territory with their yen printing. They're so far past fucked they couldn't catch a bus back to fucked.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (rXcBX)
Posted by: the baltic dry index at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (fIgFc)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars [/i] [/b] [/s] at November 19, 2013 11:13 AM (ic+2p)
Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (QF8uk)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: President Romeo13... at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 03:10 PM (VtjlW)
It is! Especially the big, dewy brown eyes alight with wonder. ^_^
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Oceania at November 19, 2013 11:14 AM (Kxz3Y)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (t+DWU)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (hmRNA)
eh...or they can start relaxing it...which they are.
Cultures that demonize having babies have admitted they suck....
America<----like that guy
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (9jfyN)
>>Why, it's almost like all the talk of "China's going to be the next world superpower" were just a bunch of bullshit or something. LIke maybe everyone (*cough**points at self, among others**cough*) who said that China's "booming" economy was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing were correct. Like maybe all this saber rattling they've been doing lately with Japan is an attempt to distract the population from the impending collapse of their paper-thin economy.
.
.
.For some reason China seems to implode about every 50 years. 1900s and the Boxer Rebellion, 1950s and the Communist take over and attempted exploitation of the Korea issue. They are a decade overdue for this one.
Posted by: Registered Voter at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (kYfFr)
Posted by: Mainah at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (659DL)
Posted by: Wal Mart at November 19, 2013 11:15 AM (LA7Cm)
So what do one-party dicatorships with a historical track record of genocidal insanity usually do when facing the possibility of economic catastrophe and domestic turmoil?
Yeah, that. Maybe Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines should start intensifying their respective military expenditures. I doubt they think they can count on us to honor longstanding treaty obligations.
Posted by: troyriser at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (2jF2B)
Posted by: toby928© insists on talking about robots at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803), sucks! at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (1/4XQ)
Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (zqvg6)
Man this would be a financial abyss if the PRC does implode. Not even tossing the Krugtron into a volcano will appease this mess.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: President Romeo13... at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 03:12 PM (zqvg6)
Didn't think of that but it makes sense. And the Chinese people will happily fight the Japanese. (Maybe not so much the Indians. Pretty damn cold on their mutual border.)
Posted by: joncelli at November 19, 2013 11:16 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (f9c2L)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (t+DWU)
Posted by: Registered Voter at November 19, 2013 03:15 PM (kYfFr)
Only because we managed to go pinwheeling into economic freefall ourselves c.2008. It kind of took the edge off so the rest of the world could just blame us for a while.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 03:12 PM (zqvg6)
--------------------------------------------
What? Me worried?
Posted by: Fauxchahontas -- senate princess at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (66ULQ)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (t3UFN)
Do you know how many years I've been telling him "no teeth"? That's what made Kal Penn flee back to Hollywood.
Posted by: Reggie Love at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (659DL)
But Obama hasn't negotiated a single trade agreement while in office.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 19, 2013 03:15 PM (ZPrif)
I posted a link to a major agreement they have recently negotiated in secret this morning. It includes all kinds of shit and he has pulled an international Boner and sold us out for a bag of juju beans and a promise.
http://tinyurl.com/kfopbx5
Posted by: Vic at November 19, 2013 11:17 AM (FTQyq)
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 03:12 PM (zqvg6)
Fauxcahontas: White man give us many beads, shiny things and fire water for our land. We...wait wrong Indians
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars [/i] [/b] [/s] at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (u6nf+)
-
My last fortune cookie said, "We're Screwed." I guess the fortune cookie guy watches Fox News, too.
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (XUKZU)
Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (sCO74)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 03:16 PM (5tMRX)
What if we added in Thomas Friedman and Matty "Turnipthulu, the Bouncing Turnip" Yglesias gratis?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (4df7R)
Looting and pillaging is a quick way to acquire fresh assets.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 19, 2013 11:18 AM (wNF3N)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Call me Ishmael at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (O7OxF)
Posted by: Low Information Senator at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (t+DWU)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:19 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at November 19, 2013 11:20 AM (sCO74)
Posted by: Rip Van Winkle at November 19, 2013 11:20 AM (aDwsi)
Plus, they get Jugears McFuckstick to run their healthcare.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 19, 2013 11:20 AM (wtvvX)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:20 AM (zqvg6)
"By the way, when I talked about priming the pump, I didn't mean THIS shit."
- Even Keynes is spinning in his grave
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: toby928© insists on talking about robots at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (t+DWU)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: wooga at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (cgX+7)
Posted by: the Krugster at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (fIgFc)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 19, 2013 03:15 PM (ZPrif)
He shows no interest in doing anything because he is incurious by nature and too immature to be told bad news.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 19, 2013 11:21 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at November 19, 2013 11:22 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Kodos at November 19, 2013 11:22 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:23 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 19, 2013 11:23 AM (oDCMR)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 03:16 PM (5tMRX)
That is no reason, however, not to throw the Krugtron into a volcano. And Friedman. And just about every socialist you can lay your hands on.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 19, 2013 11:23 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: The Political Hat at November 19, 2013 11:23 AM (XvHmy)
I occasionally follow links that leave me saying "What a world!"
There was one a few days ago about how the Chinese internet is absolutely chock full of gay slash fiction about Benedict Cumberbatch. Especially his modern-Sherlock character.
The Party are real damn quick to stamp out anything behind the Great Firewall that they don't like. (Insanely enough, ducks are currently not something you can allude to.) Whereas by contrast the censors seem to be completely ignoring all this amateur gay Internet fiction. Interesting. There was once a time in the PRC when gays were not thus allowed any latitude, but that has changed.
I figure it's the Party's way of giving at least some of the unmarried men something to keep them busy and quiet and not causing trouble. Second look at Chinese gay weddings?
Posted by: torquewrench at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (gqT4g)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 03:19 PM (zqvg6)
I doubt China cares. They have oodles of young men they need to get rid of, and FAST, before they start boiling over in full-fledged revolution. A little nationalistic fervor coupled with some otherwise fruitless attacks against an old enemy, using substandard equipment manufactured in corrupt government military factories, should use up plenty of them.
Meanwhile Japan's population gets smaller and older by the day.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (4df7R)
(pssst, I have blue eyes but I'll forgive you, what with being a delicate flower of innocent virture)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (VtjlW)
same "fuck having babies" dynamic at work Steevy...
if Russia wised up and let people be free there they'd have a golden age
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (9jfyN)
Not even tossing the Krugtron into a volcano will appease this mess.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 03:16 PM (5tMRX)
-------
Definitely worth a try.
Posted by: meh at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (W2qJe)
Posted by: Methos at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (hO9ad)
Works every time and fortunes are much more entertaining that way.
Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 19, 2013 03:21 PM (j0wOO)[/i]
Or "between the sheets."
E.G, "We're screwed between the sheets."
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:24 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No really!) at November 19, 2013 11:25 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Guy Fieri at November 19, 2013 11:25 AM (Pr6hk)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 19, 2013 11:25 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 19, 2013 11:25 AM (8JJ6O)
It's Lent already???
Posted by: president o'bumbles at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (fIgFc)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars [/i] [/b] [/s] at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (oPVx2)
.............
While that would be fun to watch, one must remember the Norks have a 1 million man army, and artillery close enough to Seoul to level it in a couple hours.
The fun part might be lobbing a few tactical nukes into the DMZ against those artillery positions!
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (f9c2L)
>>Things that won't be discussed at White House. Their lack of future appetite for US debt may put a dent in our five year plan.
.
.
.To QE Infinity and Beyond!!!!
Posted by: Janet Yellen at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (kYfFr)
Posted by: Ben Bernanke at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (aN78T)
"Fear is interest paid on a debt you may not owe."
This one makes me think of Krugtron - "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."
This fortune cookie probably inspired Marco Polo - "Travelling to the east will bring you great rewards."
"If there is no wind, there will be no wave."
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:26 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 03:21 PM (5tMRX)
Stuff a few rolls of Tums in his pockets first and it'll be smooth sailing from there out.
(pssst, I have blue eyes but I'll forgive you, what with being a delicate flower of innocent virture)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 03:24 PM (VtjlW)
Darn it! I couldn't remember if they were blue or brown. I think "brown hair" and automatically give the individual brown eyes. Gomen!
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:27 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Russia at November 19, 2013 11:28 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:28 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Soona at November 19, 2013 11:28 AM (66ULQ)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 19, 2013 11:29 AM (/Crba)
When the Chinese stop backing the Norks, do you think the South Koreans will do a little house cleaning?
Posted by: bonhomme
Not right away. Without China there to boost them up, all SoKo would have to do is give it a year or so and the Norks would starve themselves out completely. Then the Sorks could go in and clean house.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:29 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Dan Shore at November 19, 2013 11:29 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at November 19, 2013 11:29 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: President Romeo13.... at November 19, 2013 11:29 AM (lZBBB)
How to stop the PRC PLA from invading? Blow-up dolls.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:30 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 19, 2013 11:30 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: the littl shyning man at November 19, 2013 11:30 AM (tmFlQ)
Posted by: The Political Hat at November 19, 2013 11:30 AM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Marty McFly at November 19, 2013 11:30 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 03:28 PM (zqvg6)
Yes, but in my HEAD I see brown.
It's like when a book tells you that a character has blond hair, but you'd already decided their hair was black. I know AtC's hair is ginger, but dammit, I can't stop picturing it as brown.
My head's a weird place.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:31 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Ammo Dump at November 19, 2013 11:31 AM (GgPam)
http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Tim-Walker-photography-18.jpg
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:32 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:32 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: President Romeo13.... at November 19, 2013 11:32 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:32 AM (naUcP)
http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Tim-Walker-photography-18.jpg
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 03:32 PM (5tMRX)
...
Not gonna lie - that gave me deja vu.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:32 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: KRUGATRON at November 19, 2013 11:33 AM (32Ze2)
>>I'd be more worried about the artillery, though I figure that good targeting and either some bunker busters or daisy cutters could minimize those issues.
.
.The North's Artillery is dug in deep and concealed all along the DMZ and it would be a cold plated bitch to target and destroy it before they get off a few volleys.
Posted by: Registered Voter at November 19, 2013 11:33 AM (kYfFr)
Posted by: Ben Bernanke at November 19, 2013 11:33 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Killerdog at November 19, 2013 11:33 AM (j3ogR)
Speaking of doggies and the Chinese.....I am finding dog treats that specifically say 'Made in America' on them due to the Chinese use of God knows what that is killing dogs.
My 4 year old yellow Lab makes it really hard to get out of bed in the morning. They are like living, breathing, very warm pillows that snuggle with you.
Posted by: Cheri at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (G+Wff)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 03:32 PM (naUcP)
Dammit, you're right.
229, I curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (4df7R)
And lots of very small spoons.
Posted by: Milton Friedman at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:34 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: the rev. al sharpton at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (fIgFc)
Posted by: Hank Johnson at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (659DL)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 03:24 PM (9jfyN)
-------------------------------------------------
They had a golden opportunity, but they themselves decided they didn't want that kind of freedom. Socialism runs deep in the Russian psyche.
Posted by: Soona at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (66ULQ)
You're too linear, Ace.
1. North Korea declares it bought the debt from China, and China agrees. They sign a 100-year debt contract.
2. North Korea declares it sells the servicing of the note to Iran, and Iran signs a contract to buy it over 100 years.
3. Their UN ambassadors bank the contracts in a safety deposit box in New York City.
4. The U.S. government seizes these "assets" and freezes them.
5. From now until the next world war, China refuses to pay anybody for debts it sold to North Korea; North Korea insists Iran is responsible; Iran demands its liability be litigated in US federal court; the US government acknowledges the existence of the impounded "assets" but denies liability or jurisdiction for the transfers described within the contracts.
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (5xmd7)
/crosses fingers for 230
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 03:34 PM (naUcP)
It would tip over...dummy!
Posted by: Hank Johnson at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (gvqyH)
/crosses fingers for 230
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 03:34 PM (naUcP)
**
The Island would tip. Duh.
Posted by: dananjcon at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (wmU4G)
Posted by: Ammo Dump at November 19, 2013 03:31 PM (GgPam)
Instead they built vast new cities in the middle of nowhere that have no people living in them.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 19, 2013 11:35 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:36 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: Krugtron the Invincible at November 19, 2013 11:36 AM (TKFmG)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 11:36 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Killerdog at November 19, 2013 03:33 PM (j3ogR)
Any chance to throw Juan McLame anywhere is a chance to be savored and then exercised with extreme prejudice.
For example, I would recommend we add McLame to our list of worthless statists who we will sacrifice to the volcano to appease the global economic DOOM dragon. He can go in between Reich and Krugtron the Invincible.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:36 AM (4df7R)
I get a feeling that I never never had before, no no
I get a feeling, yeah
Oh oh, sometimes I get a good feeling, yeah
I get a feeling that I never never had before, no no
I get a feeling, yeah
... this story isn't one of those moments
Posted by: Kathleen "ObamaDoesn'tCare" Sebelius at November 19, 2013 11:37 AM (e8kgV)
One of them would eat for a day?
Posted by: joncelli at November 19, 2013 11:37 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: President Romeo13.... at November 19, 2013 11:37 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Methos at November 19, 2013 11:37 AM (hO9ad)
Also motherfucker, I cancelled the regingering for Tuesday because we were supposed to start trial but didn't and rescheduled it for tomorrow and now trial is starting tomorrow. Fuck it, I'm not rescheduling that yet, hopefully we'll be done tomorrow.
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 03:36 PM (VtjlW)
BTW, I still refuse to believe you're ten years my senior.
Will your lack of regingering anger the judge?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:39 AM (4df7R)
It was an absolute mess..... and this was a long time ago. Think about the magnitude of the lending that has happened in the last 10 years using this same "system" of lending.
Posted by: smellbo at November 19, 2013 11:39 AM (ascb8)
Posted by: blaster at November 19, 2013 11:39 AM (W6bkf)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 11:40 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: Comrade Jesse, not welcoming our socialist overlords at November 19, 2013 11:40 AM (kkbgQ)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at November 19, 2013 11:41 AM (HVff2)
I had a colleague travel to China at least 10 years ago (probably longer) to value some portfolios of Chinese debt. They said it was unbelievable the lack of paperwork underlying millions of dollars worth of loans. No underwriting, no security instruments, no idea who loaned who, how much exactly, and when. Many loans were made because a government official told a bank to do so, oftentimes to a family member of that official or someone politically connected.
There is a LOT of corruption in China. A LOT. Huge gubmint contracts get handed out to friends, family and cronies, and most of the money goes right into the bigwigs' pockets.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:41 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:41 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:41 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 19, 2013 11:42 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 19, 2013 03:41 PM (4df7R)
if they keep it in country, their money will go boom!
If they have it outside China they may keep it
Posted by: Fred Q. at November 19, 2013 11:42 AM (q+zA9)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:42 AM (zqvg6)
I have a feeling that if this persists with China, then Hong Kong is going to be sold to the highest bidder.......again.
Wish the US had it's shit together. Hong Kong would be a bitchin' purchase.
Posted by: Soona at November 19, 2013 11:43 AM (66ULQ)
Posted by: the littl shyning man at November 19, 2013 11:43 AM (8X0By)
Not quite off topic.
This Chinese debt thing reminds me of Blade Runner where it appears China and robots have taken over which reminds me of almost human robots which brings up the new show, Almost Human.
Watched it last night. Liked it. Think it has a lot of potential.
Posted by: polynikes at November 19, 2013 11:43 AM (m2CN7)
Though really chaps. Making a movie on how Doctor Who was created? The industry is truly turning in on itself.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 19, 2013 11:44 AM (5tMRX)
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 19, 2013 11:44 AM (0FSuD)
I've worked for a Chinese company (begun and based in China, not a company that built plants there to ship stuff back here) for years. Not a single word in any of the article or post surprises me, the whole place is a potemkin country. I've been saying this to anyone who will listen for years, but I'm not a lib and don't have a talk show. I will wager a good bet that it's far worse than stated, because if it were "just" this, then there'd be no reporting at all.
It's the Chinese way.
Posted by: Biblio at November 19, 2013 11:44 AM (7o8VY)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 11:44 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:45 AM (4df7R)
"A 1 million man army doesn't really mean shit if they're malnourished, ill-trained, and inexperienced. I'd be more worried about the artillery, though I figure that good targeting and either some bunker busters or daisy cutters could minimize those issues."
The problem with the Nork artillery is that it's in superhardened bunkers (including rollout-rollback gun carriages on rails) and that there's so damn much of it.
Surely the US and the South Koreans working jointly could put the hurt on most of those sites, but it would take perhaps the better part of two weeks. That much tube artillery, running fire missions at their max duty cycle, into a dense urban core such as Seoul where damn near everything is a valuable target, could do absolutely immense damage in that much time.
However, all of that huge investment by the Norks is probably going to get technologically neutered in the next decade or so, by frickin' lasers. Which are getting good enough that the realistic engagement of artillery shells in flight will be feasible. Doesn't matter how much metal the North puts in the air if none of it gets to the ground intact.
Hence the Nork push for more and more nuclear capability. They've got to have some other way to hold the South at risk than with conventional artillery barrages. I would guess that they'd be trying to fire nuclear torpedoes into the South's ports from submarines to avoid having missiles similarly intercepted in flight. (The Soviet navy had port-killing with nuke torpedos as doctrine for a while, and a lot of Nork doctrine is warmed over Soviet thinking.)
Posted by: torquewrench at November 19, 2013 11:45 AM (gqT4g)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 19, 2013 03:41 PM (4df7R)
-----------------------------------------------
This all sounds very familier. Hmmmm.
Posted by: Soona at November 19, 2013 11:45 AM (66ULQ)
Didn't we just discuss that a Chinese billionare is funding another Pac / Atlantic canal? Might want to put a hold on that investment if you were thinking about it.
Posted by: polynikes at November 19, 2013 11:46 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:46 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at November 19, 2013 11:46 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: steevy at November 19, 2013 11:46 AM (zqvg6)
>>But getting past those dug in positions would be a problem 'short' of an Amphibious landing North of the DMZ to cut them off.... and even then the South would get pounded for a long time with the ammunition stockpiled there...
.
.I hear Inchon is nice this time of year.
Posted by: Douglas McArthur at November 19, 2013 11:48 AM (kYfFr)
Posted by: Havedash at November 19, 2013 11:48 AM (gvqyH)
Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at November 19, 2013 11:48 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at November 19, 2013 11:48 AM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: Lincolntf at November 19, 2013 11:49 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:49 AM (sByIH)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 03:40 PM (da5Wo)
RIGHT???
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 19, 2013 11:50 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Methos at November 19, 2013 11:50 AM (hO9ad)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, upholstering his throne of skulls at November 19, 2013 11:50 AM (naUcP)
He was not optimistic.
Posted by: Nip Sip at November 19, 2013 03:44 PM (0FSuD)
---------------------------------------------
I keep saying that the fed reserve gun is cocked and ready to fire. All it would take is a phonecall from Dear Leader if the repubs keep the House and win the senate in 2014, telling the chairman to stop the presses and raise interest rates.
Posted by: Soona at November 19, 2013 11:51 AM (66ULQ)
If nothing else I welcome it.
We'd finally know if Ogabe ran the Fed or Bukkake/Yellen ran Ogabe
Posted by: sven10077 at November 19, 2013 11:57 AM (9jfyN)
Posted by: Dan at November 19, 2013 12:07 PM (gR5OX)
The idea that "China has a mortgage on the US/our future" was never true, and the sort of thing only people ignorant of finance say. When you buy a bond, you buy a promise to repay that bond with the specified interest at a specified future time. Want your money back early? Too freakin' bad, Hop Sing. That's not the way it works. Try selling it on the open market at a discount. "Foreclose?" ON WHAT? Our bonds are backed by the "full faith and credit of the United States" which means you'll get your money back when it's due and not a day before. IF we decide to pay you. Your ONLY security is our word. Heh.
Will the Chinese economic crisis affect us? Sure, but our own problems are more germane. And it certainly helps us by weakening China. The best possible outcome is it causes the Communists to be overthrown, the Army's corrupt leadership to be imprisoned, and China to break into several autonomous regions. Look on the bright side.
Posted by: Adjoran at November 19, 2013 12:21 PM (473jB)
Essentially, they've been holding.
By far the biggest buyer of US debt, >100% of the increase in debt, in fact, is the Federal Reserve.
Treasury creates the bonds, the Fed buys them, and the money goes out the door to pay for Obama's deficit spending.
Posted by: Callawyn at November 20, 2013 12:20 AM (+7Wfv)
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Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 19, 2013 11:00 AM (da5Wo)