Ace of Spades HQ

November 15, 2013

Oh, My: Rubio Wants to Repeal Obamacare's Pre-Planned Bailouts for Insurance Companies
— Ace

I guess when I said that Republicans have to make the insurance companies fear them more than they fear Obama, Republicans were already thinking along those lines.

Make the Democrats vote to affirm each and every egregious and unpopular part of this bill.

Make them own it, until they beg us to let them repeal it.

Nutshell version: An insurer whoÂ’s offering a plan on the ObamaCare exchange sends a cost projection for that plan to HHS. If it comes in a bit under cost, they cut a check to HHS for the difference; if it comes in a bit over cost, HHS cuts them a check to make up the shortfall. ItÂ’s a way for insurers to spread the risk of cost miscalculations among themselves. Adrianna McIntyre, the economist who inspired FreddosoÂ’s post, calls it Â“insurance for the insurers.Â” So far, so good. Problem is, thereÂ’s no cap on losses that HHS might be forced to cover if lots and lots of individual plans end up costing way more than the insurers projected. If a planÂ’s actual cost exceeds 103 percent of the projection, Uncle Sam covers half of the overrun; if actual cost exceeds 108 percent of the projection, Uncle Sam covers 80 percent.

This was of course a bribe to insurance companies, to get them to sign on to Obamacare. It's not that it put money in their pockets, exactly; but it did indemnify them against Obamacare losses.

Hm. Just like the President guaranteed the public they'd also be indemnified against harms caused by Obamacare.

However, unlike the promise Obama made to citizens, which he never intended to keep, Obama does intend to keep this promise to insurers -- "If you like your profits, you can keep your profits."

But now Rubio wants to put insurers in the same place as citizens -- fully exposed to the wrecking-ball harms of Obamacare.

I'm in favor of it. We need a crystallization of opinion on this. I am tired of delays. We need the thing wiped off the books, and if that requires nearly bankrupting insurance companies until the exit the markets entirely, then we'll just have to do that.

By the way, a good point from health care executive Bob Laszewski.

Megyn Kelly teed up Laszewski with a series of video clips of various White House surrogates suggesting the cancellation letters are a merely a business decision being made by insurance companies. But as Laszewski pointed out, that claim is completely undercut by the President's offer of a "fix."
"If the insurance companies didn't have to cancel people then why did the President give a press conference and announce that insurance companies don't have to cancel people?" Laszewski asked. "The administration just changed the rules so the insurance companies don't have to cancel people" he continued, adding "Well, I guess they had to before then, didn't they Megyn?"

Posted by: Ace at 10:25 AM | Comments (230)
Post contains 504 words, total size 3 kb.

1 the president is a scoamt

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 15, 2013 10:25 AM (8JJ6O)

2 Thank you, Cuban Combover. Now, go get your shine box.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:26 AM (olDqf)

3 One shit sandwich on toast coming right up.

Posted by: Roy at November 15, 2013 10:27 AM (VndSC)

4 The Insurance Cos are all but guaranteed to lose money after His Emptiness waved the Royal Pinky and turned all the regulations on their head yesterday.

Posted by: --- at November 15, 2013 10:27 AM (MMC8r)

5 "I, the Emperor God-Child of the New Age, declare that insurance companies no longer have to follow the law I said they never really had to follow except when they did except when it made me look bad."

Posted by: Long-time Commenter, First-time Reader at November 15, 2013 10:27 AM (pl1y3)

6 And the NRCC wants to take up amnesty before the midterms. The GOP is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:28 AM (Y92Nd)

7 We write today in reconsideration of Â“The Gettysburg Address,Â” delivered by then-President Abraham Lincoln in the midst of the greatest conflict seen on American soil. Our predecessors, perhaps under the influence of partisanship, or of strong drink, as was common in the profession at the time, called President LincolnÂ’s words Â“silly remarks,Â” deserving Â“a veil of oblivion,Â” apparently believing it an indifferent and altogether ordinary message, unremarkable in eloquence and uninspiring in its brevity.

In the fullness of time, we have come to a different conclusion. No mere utterance, then or now, could do justice to the soaring heights of language Mr. Lincoln reached that day. By todayÂ’s words alone, we cannot exalt, we cannot hallow, we cannot venerate this sacred text, for a grateful nation long ago came to view those words with reverence, without guidance from this chagrined member of the mainstream media.

Posted by: Ghost of Abe Lincoln at November 15, 2013 10:28 AM (e8kgV)

Schadenboners galore and we keep talking about Kate Upton and Megyn Kelly.

I'll be in my bunk.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at November 15, 2013 10:28 AM (A0sHn)

9 One shit sandwich on toast coming right up. There's TOAST?

Posted by: --- at November 15, 2013 10:28 AM (MMC8r)

10 But I thought the whole point of Obamacare was to bankrupt insurance companies or else drive them out of the market, so that people would clamor for single payer.

Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2013 10:28 AM (zoehZ)

11 >>>But I thought the whole point of Obamacare was to bankrupt insurance companies or else drive them out of the market, so that people would clamor for single payer. well it's my desire now to make them clamor for repeal.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2013 10:29 AM (/FnUH)

12 I want every last page, SINGLE-SIDED, of this abomination of a law SHOVED UP EVERY DEMOCRAT'S ASS.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 15, 2013 10:29 AM (wtvvX)

13 Rubio doesn't know his head from his ass on immigration, but this is a smart move on his part.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 10:30 AM (/Crba)

14 Sounds like he just called TFG a liar -- which, of course, he is.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2013 10:30 AM (cHZB7)

15 Moar Popcorn is necessary. I recommend using real butter and lots of salt. Makes you kind of crave a beer or two to go with it.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 15, 2013 10:30 AM (ndlFj)

Keep the hits coming, keep splitting the Democrat caucus in the House. Keep bringing pressure on Reid to do something to save his leadership office. Keep bringing pressure on Obama to continue to threaten veto of any fix to help the Americans that his lies have hurt.

Keep removing the thought of any other escape hatch from teh Democrats in Congress. "Nope, that way is blocked. Sorry, no exit there. Reid locked that door. Obama bricked that doorway up. Look, you know there is only one option, don't you? You need new leadership or you are toast; you know that."

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 15, 2013 10:30 AM (hLRSq)

17 Rubio, you can buy us flowers and chocolates till doomsday, the love is gone.

Posted by: irright at November 15, 2013 10:31 AM (pMGkg)

18
And the Democrats counter with - insurance companies collapsed? -- Government run single payer plz.

Which is pretty much what they did with student loans and low end real estate mortgages.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 15, 2013 10:31 AM (kdS6q)

19 OK, Rubio. This may be a good move.

But I still don't trust you. Period.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 15, 2013 10:31 AM (wtvvX)

20 One shit sandwich on toast coming right up. There's TOAST? Crust optional...

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (p9JxP)

Pain is the only prescription that will kill the disease known as ObamaCare. Wanna support the disease? Pain. Sooner or later enough will tire of the pain and change the behavior that is causing it.

Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (ugAvG)

22 However, unlike the promise Obama made to citizens, which he never intended to keep, Obama does intend to keep this promise to insurers -- "If you like your profits, you can keep your profits." *********************** Wrong. Obama can't afford to lose the insurance industry's support, but he would love to paint them as the bad guys while Obamacare is seemingly failing. Remember, the goal all along was single payer, and the insurance lobby has always been down.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (Y92Nd)

23 Just wound up a excruciating, stupifyingly convoluted seminar regarding Obumbler's MAP-21 interstate transportation bill. Even the attorneys running the seminar were outright laughing over the length and inscrutability of the bill. Nice to know that my company has to purchase additional and very expensive liability because if we arrange delivery on behalf of our customers and the delivery company is in any way in violation of Obumbler's arbitrary rules, not only can MY company be sued, but we employees as INDIVIDUALS can be sued. It's all for the roads and bridges, you know. Fuck fuckity fuck fuck. This deserves a guest post, but I'm too brain-fried right now to even attempt it. Buck Ofama.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (7ObY1)

24 11 But I thought the whole point of Obamacare was to bankrupt insurance companies or else drive them out of the market, so that people would clamor for single payer. Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2013 02:28 PM (zoehZ) Still is the purpose. But for all his supposed brilliance, Saul Alinsky did not live in the real world. Oh, he had some insights into human nature, but once the shit hits the fan, all bets are off. The insurance companies are not getting blamed; it's SCOAMF who is looking (deservedly so) like a jackass. I do not feel sympathy for the Insurance Companies, since they thought they would be immune from the regime (Krupp to Hitler, etc.). But then, SCOAMF pulled an Otter on them. In any case, how they did not see this coming is beyond me, unless they did and as I said earlier, they just got greedy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (olDqf)

25 Which is pretty much what they did with student loans and low end real estate mortgages.

And how did those work out?

Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 15, 2013 10:32 AM (wtvvX)

"Make them own it, until they beg us to let them repeal it."

Roger that. "You have no options left. It is either your political career or Obama's Legacy. Now, go put on your strangling gloves and go smother little Legacy in its crib before it grows up and gets you."

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (hLRSq)

27 yeah i'd always gotten the stumble at the insurance companies being backed by the Too Big to Fail routine .
So they were help writing the laws, We saw those such as aarp /kaiser. etc helping this aca bill along and i'd wondered why.

so you get the govt to only play middle man raking off extra profits if they exist and insurance companies started raising their policy prices how many years ago?

is this somewhere in the ball park?

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (nqBYe)

28 Because the historic fuck-up of BarryCare is just the recommendation for letting the bureaucrats run EVERYTHING.

Posted by: --- at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (MMC8r)

29 and this partial repeal would pass and not be vetoed where a full repeal wouldn't because...?

Posted by: X at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (KHo8t)

30 "OK, Rubio. This may be a good move." If it's coming from Rubio, you can guarantee it isn't. He's already shown his stripes.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (Y92Nd)

31 Holy shit, the GOP suddenly flipped their switch from dumb to smart? Someone check Rubio's bed for a pod.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (doBIb)

32 And I thought things were tense around the Insurance Company water cooler an hour ago. They're in full panic mode at this point.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 15, 2013 10:33 AM (ZshNr)

33 15 Rubio doesn't know his head from his ass on immigration, but this is a smart move on his part. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 02:30 PM (/Crba) Glad he is all over this, but I will NEVER trust him because of the Amnesty sell-out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (olDqf)

34 Nice to know that my company has to purchase additional and very expensive liability because if we arrange delivery on behalf of our customers and the delivery company is in any way in violation of Obumbler's arbitrary rules, not only can MY company be sued, but we employees as INDIVIDUALS can be sued.

----

Yup..... thats a tax too....

Posted by: Chief Justice Roberts at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (nELVU)

35 13 I want every last page, SINGLE-SIDED, of this abomination of a law SHOVED UP EVERY DEMOCRAT'S ASS.

The "Most Holiest Catholic in all the Land" has plenty of room for that. She is one giant a**.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (ndlFj)

36 Because the historic fuck-up of BarryCare is just the recommendation for letting the bureaucrats run EVERYTHING. Posted by: --- at November 15, 2013 02:33 PM (MMC8r) THIS.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (Y92Nd)

37 anyway add vitter amendment to it all.

just to be sure we ALL share the fun of fightingobamacare

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (nqBYe)

38 Inuring the insurers was discussed back on Nov. 6th at legalinsurrection.com if you want more info. Obamacare: insuring the insurers http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/11/obamacare-insuring-the-insurers/

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (IXrOn)

39 [Ace:] ..."Make the Democrats vote to affirm each and every egregious and unpopular part of this bill.

Make them own it, until they beg us to let them repeal it."

This!!

Most people don't even know about the Bailout for Ins Companies.

This would at least expose it.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (c87DZ)

40 WOLVERINES!!!

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (n/ogz)

41 36 15 Rubio doesn't know his head from his ass on immigration, but this is a smart move on his part. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 02:30 PM (/Crba) Glad he is all over this, but I will NEVER trust him because of the Amnesty sell-out. --- This. I trust him about as far as I can throw him, but he's proving himself to be more useful than a fucking snake like McCain.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 10:34 AM (/Crba)

42 well bureaucrats and their chosen to win cronies.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (nqBYe)

43 Pain is all I can see in the immediate future for the Democrats in Congress.....

Posted by: Magic 8-Ball at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (ugAvG)

44 34 Holy shit, the GOP suddenly flipped their switch from dumb to smart? Someone check Rubio's bed for a pod. Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 02:33 PM (doBIb) Maybe SCOAMF and the Dems are in such a pickle that even the GOP can't fuck this up. In any case, I'm glad this seems to be going our way for a change.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (olDqf)

45 BlueStateRebel, what did you expect...MAP-21 is a blank check to the infrastructure/AEC lobby...if they are not getting paid to build more, they are getting paid to 'study alternatives'.

Posted by: anon at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (rsPKs)

46 SPARTANS!!!! PREPARE FOR ~~DISAPPOINTMENT~~ GLORY!!!!

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (doBIb)

47 @26 BlueStateRebel: Once you are unfried, I for one would like to hear about that. (Thay bringing back the metric requirement?

)

Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (wtvvX)

48 I don't want to kill the insurance companies but I wouldn't be against singeing their hands a little. They need to learn not to indulge in corporatism and to act more like businesses than arms of the government.

Posted by: joncelli at November 15, 2013 10:35 AM (RD7QR)

49 The bill needs to be written so that insurance companies cannot share expenses between exchange and non-exchange policies. That is, if this bill passes, then the insurance companies are going to have to be extra sure that what they charge on the exchange will cover what they pay out under the exchangeÂ—thus making the true cost of Obamacare that much more visible. I wonder if any of them were lowballing just to keep the exchange prices from looking too ridiculous?

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (QF8uk)

50 Rubio positioning himself for some of that sweet, sweet fat man running mate love.

Posted by: Havedash at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (gvqyH)

51 Are we in a Meltdown yet, or still in the Quagmire stage? Does Malaise come later, after everything has collapsed? We really need a new word to summarize "Obama Dysfunction" affecting the govt. and nation. Obamalaise? Quagma? Barachaos?

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (+cx5n)

52 I don't want to kill the insurance companies but I wouldn't be against singeing their hands a little. They need to learn not to indulge in corporatism and to act more like businesses than arms of the government.

Posted by: joncelli at November 15, 2013 02:35 PM (RD7QR)

yep.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (nqBYe)

53 One shit sandwich on toast coming right up. Posted by: Roy at November 15, 2013 02:27 PM (VndSC) ****** That's disgusting. Now Paste on toast. Hmmmmmm

Posted by: Vice President McTardo at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (mETGQ)

54 Any time TFG is giving a speech, it's a safe bet you can just put on Queen's Liar and get the gist of his message. You'll have to put it on auto repeat, cuz he do go on and on.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2013 10:36 AM (cHZB7)

55 Well the Marco has gained a grain of respect with this proposal. I'm still pissed at him about immigration. But, right now Obamacare is front and center and it needs to be thrown into the trash heap of history. Good job, keep it up do not relent.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (HVff2)

56 is this somewhere in the ball park? Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 02:33 PM (nqBYe) Right, they want to be thrown into the bailout briar patch, and the feds are down, because that is what our economy has become, bond bundlers and exporters of inflation. This will not end well.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (Y92Nd)

57 We really need a new word to summarize "Obama Dysfunction" affecting the govt. and nation. SCOAMF-Freud.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (doBIb)

58 >>> I don't want to kill the insurance companies but I wouldn't be against singeing their hands a little. They need to learn not to indulge in corporatism and to act more like businesses than arms of the government. yup. Dog won't learn lest you rub its nose in its shit.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (/FnUH)

59 and the insurance companies get the subsidies.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (nqBYe)

60 I'm in favor of it. We need a crystallization of opinion on this. I am tired of delays. We need the thing wiped off the books, and if that requires nearly bankrupting insurance companies until the exit the markets entirely, then we'll just have to do that. I believe in failure. The cleansing power of failure. (And not just because I teach calculus.) Failure is good. Failure is right. Failure works. I didn't believe the banks or the car companies should have been bailed out in 2008. Our banking system would collapse? Hogwash. Our banking system should be based on free exchange. It would go just fine as long as there are sellers and there are buyers. As my father told me, "You'll learn better for next time." Obamacare's subsidies to the corporations are just another example of why socialism always devolves to fascism. Soon everybody becomes too big to fail and we run around trying to prevent failure.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (T0NGe)

61 Since I was so popular surely a bailout for the cherished insurance industry will go over even better right?

Posted by: Wall St. Bailout at November 15, 2013 10:37 AM (ugAvG)

54 We really need a new word to summarize "Obama Dysfunction" affecting the govt. and nation.

Shitville?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (HVff2)

63 Has McCain puffed himself up yet and exclaimed, "We'll give them their goddamned repeal"? What does Meghan McCain think about these issues?

Posted by: ejo at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (GXvSO)

64 48 BlueStateRebel, what did you expect...MAP-21 is a blank check to the infrastructure/AEC lobby...if they are not getting paid to build more, they are getting paid to 'study alternatives'. Posted by: anon at November 15, 2013 02:35 PM (rsPKs) Exactly. The bill is full of language about "revenue enhancement" and "job creation" when the only revenue being enhanced and the only jobs being created are that of the infrastructure lobby, the surety companies and the gubmint.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (7ObY1)

65 Yeah, the insurance companies got in bed with the regime and deserve to get a strong whack on the knuckles. However, we're going to need them once the dust settles and this law (please G-d) disappears.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (olDqf)

66 Wow, good move from Rubio. It's hard to explain why the insurance companies are evil even as you're bailing out.

Posted by: MTF at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (F58x4)

67 See: GM Chevy Volt Solyndra... taxpayer bail outs paying for votes laundering campaign funds

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (IXrOn)

68 Tattoo De Plane.

I hope this time people can see it for what it is.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (nqBYe)

69 15 Rubio doesn't know his head from his ass on immigration, but this is a smart move on his part. The worst thing about Rubio on immigration is that he got pwned. He was easily outmaneuvered and made to look like a fool. It makes me very concerned about his strategic acumen.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (T0NGe)

70
And how did those work out?
Posted by: Tex Lovera

Not great.

But then, effectiveness and financial responsibility aren't Democratic metrics. Number of laws passed and amount of money spent.are.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 15, 2013 10:38 AM (kdS6q)

71 Posted by: Havedash at November 15, 2013 02:36 PM (gvqyH) Or maybe he just thought such a bill is the correct way to go.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (23Kgq)

72 67 What does Meghan McCain think about these issues? Posted by: ejo at November 15, 2013 02:38 PM (GXvSO) Fat, vapid and betitted is no way to go through life, kid.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (olDqf)

73 Because the historic fuck-up of BarryCare is just the recommendation for letting the bureaucrats run EVERYTHING.
Posted by: --- at November 15, 2013 02:33 PM (MMC8r)

----

Yup.... I think Krauthammer has it more or less right....

A failure of Obamacare strikes at the heart of modern liberalism. Its failure will give conservatives a club to swing for at least a decade. "You want to have DC run ________ (fill in the blank). Remeber how well Obamacare worked????"

That is.... if we live that long. Those of us that dont die in the streets from lack of healthcare and then those survivors dont die from the Iranians getting nukes.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (nELVU)

74 When Harry Reid block this, like he always does, he needs to become the issue. The appearance that the dems are a monolithic entity needs to be demolished by putting heat on him so reasonable and honest debate can be restored to the Senate.

Posted by: Fawkes at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (/fhBu)

@21 And the Democrats counter with - insurance companies collapsed? -- Government run single payer plz.

Except if the insurance companies actually COLLAPSE, there won't be anything for the gubmint to take over - they'll have to start from scratch.

And the preznit already said, "Insurance is hard".

If there aren't any insurance companies around, it'll be kinda hard to buy insurance, so Sugar Daddy won't be able to collect any "shared responsibility fines".

Works for me.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (PZ6/M)

76 >>>If it's coming from Rubio, you can guarantee it isn't. He's already shown his stripes.

Man but is that a dumb way to view things.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (n/+FT)

Methinks Rubio himself is more than a little scared of being primaried in 2016, which isn't so very far away.

Good.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (4df7R)

78 Posted by: Ghost of Abe Lincoln at November 15, 2013 02:28 PM (e8kgV) BTW, Obama had been invited to give an address at Gettysburg commemorating the 150th anniversary. He declined.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (T0NGe)

79 Say, I like this fellow Rubio. I sure hope he doesn't turn around and do something stupid like lead an amnesty effort or something.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (0LHZx)

80 Just wound up a excruciating, stupifyingly convoluted seminar regarding Obumbler's MAP-21 interstate transportation bill. What industry?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 10:39 AM (p9JxP)

81 anyway some call it corporatism but i believe this is closing the gap to fascism.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:40 AM (nqBYe)

82 Just call him "Ol' Bailout Barry".

That Fucking Guy is That Fucking Stupid.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at November 15, 2013 10:40 AM (wtvvX)

83 But, but, but evil GOP loves the evil big insurance companies!!!!!!!

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2013 10:40 AM (fWAjv)

84 Where is the bill coming from? It's dead in the water in the Senate.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 10:40 AM (oFCZn)

85 Wow, good move from Rubio. It's hard to explain why the insurance companies are evil even as you're bailing out. Good point and one which should be brought up continually when Obama goes on about the evil insurance companies.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 10:40 AM (23Kgq)

86 83 Say, I like this fellow Rubio. I sure hope he doesn't turn around and do something stupid like lead an amnesty effort or something. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 02:39 PM (0LHZx) I would think he would be far, far away from that thing. Methinks Eddie Munster Ryan is the one to watch for that sellout.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:41 AM (olDqf)

87 my brain is turning to goo .

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:41 AM (nqBYe)

88 In any case, I'm glad this seems to be going our way for a change. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 02:35 PM

Do you really think it is?

Rubio's broken-clock "awareness" of Choom Boy's little crumb to the insurance companies is not going to pass, let alone be signed into law. It's a "if I do this, maybe the proles will forget about my stance on amnesty" move, and even if Reid lets it be considered (ha!) President Historic FirstÂ© isn't going to go for it.

We are making a bad situation infinitely worse. CoomCare is now fully legitimized, 'cause those eeeevil Republicans are working to make it better.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 10:41 AM (kaGpp)

89 Shit just got real.

Posted by: OregonMuse at November 15, 2013 10:41 AM (xm1A1)

90 What industry? I'm in customs brokerage, but we have to arrange delivery to final destination in a lot of cases, dependent upon the freight terms. When we do, we are considered a freight forwarder even if we farm out the business.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 10:42 AM (7ObY1)

"Insurance is hard".

So is my Dick

Posted by: reggie loves the tfg at November 15, 2013 10:42 AM (HVff2)

92
Surely somebody, somewhere.... is working on the Obamacare version of the "Hitlers Bunker" Youtube.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 15, 2013 10:42 AM (nELVU)

93 91 my brain is turning to goo . *sops up willow's brain*

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:42 AM (doBIb)

94 Seriously though -- you know the stupid joke about "three-dimensional chess" and whatnot?

THIS is a 3D chess move here. Rubio's bill is smart. The House needs to take it up on Monday, and the GOP needs to get it tacked onto the Landrieu Bill in the Senate. Force the D's to filibuster that. Just FORCE THEM.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 10:42 AM (n/+FT)

95 EC , while you have it could you add some vitamins and a few brain cells to the mix?

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:43 AM (nqBYe)

96 I feel like we're being played. The one thing the Dems need more than ANYTHING (besides Obamacare magically working, of course) is political cover. Even Obama understands this. I think he knows his law (which he never wrote or even showed interest in writing) is totally unworkable, must eventually be dismantled, and will be his legacy.

So now, Republicans who futilely wasted time with 4 (or more) repeal votes back when Obama had all the political capital, have a chance to repeal while the iron is hot, and we're writing legislation to FIX Obamacare?!?

Oh yes, it will pass both houses. But Obama's threat about vetoing? It's Lucy with the football, people. He means the Upton bill in its entirety. Once it is reconciled with the Ladrieu bill, he will absolutely sign it, and act magnanimous while he does it, and THEN he will crow about what a great uniter he is by rallying the entire Republican Party around fixing Obamacare. He'll talk about how "after 5 years of intransigence, Republicans have finally come to the table and are interested in helping Americans with heir healthcare". Chrissy Matthews will say, "Finally they love their country more than they hate a black man." And that will be that. Obamacare will officially be a BI-PARTISAN clusterfuck.

They owned it. Not anymore. Yay Bohner.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 15, 2013 10:43 AM (MMDO6)

97 92 Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 02:41 PM (kaGpp) I dunno. I see Drew M.'s name on a post and I tend to like the way his mind works. Unlike Mabel Galore in the morning. In any case, SCOAMF is going to veto this and all the LIV's will see is "they tried to fix it and Obama said no." That's kind of a win in my estimation.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:43 AM (olDqf)

98 Just got my latest update from our insurance company (sent last week). Our agent had already moved us out of our high deductible, major medical policy earlier this year so that we would have control over the plan we would be forced into on Jan 1. That moved us from $1600 a year to $1200 a month.

Today's reminder was that the "hidden" tax and fees on our policies will be added starting Jan 1 - $45 a month - $540 a year. That's money that is non-productive. It doesn't contribute towards coverage in a policy that we barely used to begin with.

It is discretionary income that we won't be spending eating out or on the occasional mani/pedi.... or even on taking a day trip to somewhere touristy to enjoy our semi-retirement.

For those who are still working their rears off to get to retirement - it's less groceries, more economizing on their automotive expenses, settling for less coverage on their car insurance, making due with their 5 year old winter coat one more year.

The economic impact is going to be mind boggling - especially for those in the service industry where most consumption is discretionary.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at November 15, 2013 10:43 AM (L4CWX)

99 >>>We are making a bad situation infinitely worse. CoomCare is now fully legitimized, 'cause those eeeevil Republicans are working to make it better.

You are living in another fucking universe, buddy. No offense, but you seem to think that if the GOP sits back and says to America "suffer, little children that they will somehow benefit from that. No. You have to look like you're trying to help.

THERE IS NOT ONE PERSON IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY OUTSIDE OF MAYBE ERICK ERICKSON WHO THINKS THE GOP WANTS TO KEEP OBAMACARE AND THIS WILL NOT CHANGE THAT.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (n/+FT)

100 Just FORCE THEM.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 02:42 PM

I disagree with you, Bunky.

This is Three-Dimensional Bullshit.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (kaGpp)

101 EC , while you have it could you add some vitamins and a few brain cells to the mix? *turns on Hobart mixer*

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (doBIb)

102 The worst thing about Rubio on immigration is that he got pwned. He was easily outmaneuvered and made to look like a fool. It makes me very concerned about his strategic acumen. I think Rubio is probably fairly liberal on Immigration but conservative on other issues. My issue is that he tends to say different things to different audiences, as in very different things, about Immigration. It makes you wonder exactly what this guy is up to. But I like this idea.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (uhAkr)

103

"It is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false."

-Stuff H.L. Mencken wrote, c. 1926

In other words, we have to keep pressing not only the real world effects of this monstrosity of a "law," but KEEP REMINDING PEOPLE about the baldfaced lies the Demonrats have been spreading since day one. Don't play nice. Call them liars. Filthy, miserable liars. Don't apologize for it -- just keep doing it.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (4df7R)

104 Rubio is still down - WAY down- but this is a smart move.

Posted by: LASue at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (gjIQF)

105 Rubio finally does something right. This is brilliant politics. And great protection for the folks, as O'Reilly calls us.

Posted by: truth fairy at November 15, 2013 10:44 AM (ue2Nm)

106 The GOP needs to get out with the message that the only thing that can prevent massive disruption in the healthcare system, the insurance markets, and a complete meltdown of the economy is full repeal. People have had enough of a taste of it now that they are realizing what a total complete clusterfuck the whole thing is.

In the meantime, while they are waiting for the pressure for repeal to build they need to fight it the same way the Sierra Club goes after nuke plants. Hit it from every angle using whatever means to delay and cripple the implementation and operation as long as possible.

It will be easier to achieve repeal if Obamacare never becomes the new "normal'.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (P/gm7)

107 ack careful with the scrambling there are only a few left!

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (nqBYe)

108 zombie-
Obamalaise sounds like a condiment.

Posted by: CozMark (Platinum Member) at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (BjOkm)

109 The GOP needs to make sure that they use the word "bailout" when they hit the airwaves with this.

Posted by: Messaging Nazi at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (ugAvG)

110 Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 15, 2013 02:43 PM (MMDO6) Well, there is that. I have always said FULL REPEAL. Hell, even the Chicago Tribune is calling for that (see sidebar).

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (olDqf)

111
Just as long as everybody understands we are changing tax law here.

Posted by: Dread ButtPirate John Roberts at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (iGPSR)

112 OK, Rubio. This may be a good move. But I still don't trust you. Period. *** I'm right there with you.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2013 10:45 AM (DmNpO)

113 Upton bill in its entirety. Once it is reconciled with the Ladrieu bill, he will absolutely sign it, and act magnanimous while he does it, and THEN he will crow about what a great uniter he is by rallying the entire Republican Party around fixing Obamacare. What will a merged Upton/Landrieu look like? Because if the end result is a bill that allows insurers to continue selling off the exchange forever, Obamacare is dead.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 15, 2013 10:46 AM (QF8uk)

114 >>>It's dead in the water in the Senate.

The Senate is not the House. In the House, the Speaker for the majority is a dictator in terms of what bills he allows to come to a floor vote. Not so in the Senate, where the minority can force votes on bills. So let the D's vote it down. Let them filibuster it. Let them explain to people why they're defending the very insurance companies that Obama is now setting up to take the heat off of his own failures.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 10:46 AM (n/+FT)

115 ack careful with the scrambling there are only a few left! *turns dial to 'low' *

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:46 AM (doBIb)

116

When Harry Reid block this, like he always does, he needs to become the issue. The appearance that the dems are a monolithic entity needs to be demolished by putting heat on him so reasonable and honest debate can be restored to the Senate.

Posted by: Fawkes at November 15, 2013 02:39 PM (/fhBu)

Precisely. GOP to Democrat Senator: "Look, you join us on this and we won't target you too hard next year. You know Obama and Reid don't care if you get voted out, and you know that we'll keep our word to you on something this big."

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 15, 2013 10:46 AM (hLRSq)

117 Admittedly I know next to nothing on Healthcare Insurance Underwriting but I do know that all other lines of the insurance business, Insurance companies do have reinsurance to cover risks that exceed X dollars. That reinsurnace though also has a cap.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 10:47 AM (m2CN7)

118 Its about time the RNC & Ins companies plastering the tv with ads aimed at the LIVs about what they want to do but what Harry Reids senate wont even bring to a vote, let alone give TFG a chance to veto it. C'mon put the pressure on

Posted by: Harry & Loiuse, circa Hillary Clinton at November 15, 2013 10:47 AM (HVff2)

119 A declaration : behold all ye that hence forth The calendar day Sunday will be replaced with the word Choomsday because Catholics

Posted by: Wonderfully Delicious at November 15, 2013 10:47 AM (G+5Ys)

120 You are living in another fucking universe, buddy. No offense, but you seem to think that if the GOP sits back and says to America "suffer, little children that they will somehow benefit from that. No. You have to look like you're trying to help. In terms of actual effect, I think repeal is the only way to help people. This thing is too screwy to fix.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 10:47 AM (uhAkr)

121
Except if the insurance companies actually COLLAPSE, there won't be anything for the gubmint to take over - they'llhave to start from scratch.
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX

Fannie/Freddie collapsed right into the Federal Housing Finance Agency arms. From the consumer viewpoint, they probably didn't see any changes on their loans.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 15, 2013 10:47 AM (kdS6q)

122

If you like a liberal president, you can keep a liberal president,,, .... Period....

Vote Hillary! 2016...

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at November 15, 2013 10:48 AM (GjPnA)

123 Yeah, if the Senate passes Landrover's bill, the House should take it up, add the Rubio and Vitter language, pass it, and send it back to the Senate.

Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2013 10:48 AM (HjPtV)

124 Fat, vapid and betitted is no way to go through life, kid. Easy there, fat and vapid are one thing but there's nothing wrong with betitted.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 10:48 AM (7ObY1)

125 osted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 02:43 PM (olDqf) How's your asshole? Sore? Gaping? Are you hungry?

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (kkbgQ)

126 128 Easy there, fat and vapid are one thing but there's nothing wrong with betitted. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 02:48 PM (7ObY1) This is true.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (olDqf)

127 126
If you like a liberal president, you can keep a liberal president,,, .... Period....
Vote Hillary! 2016...

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at November 15, 2013 02:48 PM (GjPnA)

Oh God...not Hillary....no...

Posted by: Cthulhu at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (RD7QR)

128 What took the GOP so long to start playing some smart moves?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (doBIb)

129
Neither version of the bill gets to obama's desk.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (iGPSR)

130 Repeal and Replace Obama

Posted by: Ed in Bloomington at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (W2qJe)

131 >>>But Obama's threat about vetoing? It's Lucy with the football, people. He means the Upton bill in its entirety. Once it is reconciled with the Ladrieu bill, he will absolutely sign it, and act magnanimous while he does it, and THEN he will crow about what a great uniter he is by rallying the entire Republican Party around fixing Obamacare.

That you could have written this sentence just demonstrates that you don't understand how Obamacare, or health insurance markets, work. You should fucking hope and pray every hour of the day that the LANDRIEU bill becomes law. Because if that happens Obamacare dies. It doesn't just 'get weak' or 'make things work.' It ceases to fucking exist within one year. Do you not understand this?

Obama has no good moves. We are playing this fantastically so far. The reflexive "if the GOP is doing something, it must be a TRAAAAAAP" is a silly lens through which to view the world.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 10:49 AM (n/+FT)

132 I think Rubio is probably fairly liberal on Immigration but conservative on other issues. I think it's simpler. I think Rubio, for a lot of reasons, has a romantic view of immigration.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 10:50 AM (T0NGe)

133

" This thing is too screwy to fix..."

Zackly. Anything done to it throws it off its axis and it begins to wobble. Do enough to it and it collapses of its own accord.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 10:50 AM (LA7Cm)

134 Nice try, Marco, but you're still going to have to fuck your own garbage.

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 10:50 AM (FcR7P)

135 129 osted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 02:43 PM (olDqf) How's your asshole? Sore? Gaping? Are you hungry? Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at November 15, 2013 02:49 PM (kkbgQ) I feel like I got pulled over by the New Mexico Highway Patrol. Feeling pretty decent actually. No porno ass-gape *-) Will order in tonight.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 10:50 AM (olDqf)

136 " I think repeal is the only way to help people. This thing is too screwy to fix." Agree 100%, however I'm torn on if these small fix monkey wrenches should be thrown in or if we should just sit back, LIB, and come back in January with another repeal bill.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (hFL/3)

137 Haven't seen none of this on CNN or MSNBC so it ain't sh*t. Obama gave us more stuff yesterday's all I know. He's the sh*t tho.

Posted by: Hipster Douche LIV at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (W2qJe)

138 In the House, the Speaker for the majority is a dictator in terms of what bills he allows to come to a floor vote. Not so in the Senate, where the minority can force votes on bills. So let the D's vote it down. Let them filibuster it. Let them explain to people why they're defending the very insurance companies that Obama is now setting up to take the heat off of his own failures.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2013 02:46 PM

Ever heard of Harry Reid? He seems not to have accepted your anal-ysis of how the House and Senate procedures differ.

We won't even go into the many patriotic ways Boner has used his Awesome Authority in the House....

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (kaGpp)

139 In terms of actual effect, I think repeal is the only way to help people. This thing is too screwy to fix.

---

Yes.... but.... full repeal wont garner any D support at this time. This fix may just kill Obamacare.

I do not care which route we go, full repeal, or a fix that actually kills Obamacare.

As long as "its dead, Jim".... either way works for me.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (nELVU)

140 Put a zero next to this line item in the budget talks, make sure the insurance companies understand this is not funded.

Posted by: Insurance excutive in posh Bahamian suite at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (CMlD4)

141 Â“We need to protect taxpayers from having to bail out anyone as a consequence of Obamacare," Conant said in an email exchange with the Washington Examiner. "Rubio's bill will fully repeal the 'risk corridor' provision in Obamacare, preventing a bailout." 50% of the country does not even understand that taxes exist, let alone, some complex bill that might up them, for someone else, that they don't care about. Why not write the the bill to tax Hollywood the full amount to bail them out? At least someone would wake up.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (IXrOn)

142 As it stands now, even without 404Care on the books the health insurance industry is screwed up (mainly by gubmint meddling ofc) -- With the collapse of OCare, it may be time to look at actually turning insurance back into insurance. Catastrophic coverage, with most routine expenses out of pocket. This would encourage competition between providers of services. Frankly, with the super high deductibles being reported on the exchange plans you're already mostly there.

With businesses bailing out of the health plan offerings for their employees too, the tax incentive for individuals is also disappearing (it's pretax if your company provides it right now). So 'adjust' the tax law to allow a certain amount of deductability for out of pocket expenses. btw this is another hidden tax in OCare -- higher deductibles mean more after tax expenditures. It's a use tax.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (cHZB7)

143 That you could have written this sentence just demonstrates that you don't understand how Obamacare, or health insurance markets, work. You should fucking hope and pray every hour of the day that the LANDRIEU bill becomes law. Because if that happens Obamacare dies. It doesn't just 'get weak' or 'make things work.' It ceases to fucking exist within one year. Do you not understand this? How so? If it really does this I'm all for it. (No lie).

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 10:51 AM (uhAkr)

144 There is nothing unreasonable about assuming the GOP is doing something stupid.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (P/gm7)

145 20Gee, just think, if Rubio hadn't stepped in the amnesty pile where he would be right now.........................................He didn't just step in it. He rolled around in it like a rabid dog.

Posted by: drill_thrawl at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (znT2j)

146 Except if the insurance companies actually COLLAPSE, there won't be anything for the gubmint to take over - they'llhave to start from scratch.

The health insurance industry is not going to collapse in one year. They'll have to ratchet up premiums to compensate for the additional downside risk, which is when the whole thing comes flying apart. Democrats don't care about costs to the government going out of control, but costs felt directly by voters scares the shit out of them.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (+lsX1)

147 isn't this what we did during the shut down and budget fiasco?
keep offering little bills/payment to attempt to lessen the damage dems were doing?

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (nqBYe)

148 Jeff B. and "Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan", I think that the Dems have done the math and see that Obamacare will implode NO MATTER WHAT. So now their only hope is to not be the only ones without a chair when the music stops. Oddly, that calculation includes Obama, who needs Obamacare to fail "gently" more than anyone at this point.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (MMDO6)

149 Insurance companies, unions, big donors, employees, public-sector workers... Everyone else is getting a bribe, where's mine?

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 10:52 AM (FcR7P)

150

RE: the latest Jonah Goldberg article in the sidebar, i agree with just about everything except this:

"[E]ven though the legislation may go by the moniker 'Obamacare,' the fact is the president didnÂ’t write the law. Congress did, specifically congressional Democrats, with virtually no Republican input."

Not true. Even the Demonrats didn't write this piece of shit. Their lobbyists and special interest whackjobs wrote it. I've no doubt they're as surprised as Obammy is that it's turned into SUCH a clusterfuck so quickly, because Demonrats (and most Pubbies) are too stupid to tell their right shoe from their left without explicit written directions, let alone understand the minutia of a monster piece of legislation written by a bunch of commie assholes.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:53 AM (4df7R)

151 I think Rubio, for a lot of reasons, has a romantic view of immigration. Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 02:50 PM (T0NGe) yes

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 10:53 AM (IXrOn)

152 "He means the Upton bill in its entirety. Once it is reconciled with the Landrieu bill, he will absolutely sign it, and act magnanimous while he does it, and THEN he will crow about what a great uniter he is by rallying the entire Republican Party around fixing Obamacare." There's a few people who get it on this thread. Of course, he wants to save Landrieu's bacon. Dems want to turn AZ, LA and TX blue.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:53 AM (Y92Nd)

153 How so? If it really does this I'm all for it. (No lie). Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 02:51 PM (uhAkr) Landreu bill has no expiration date. To a lesser degree, it creates both a government and private insurance sector.

Posted by: jwb7605[/i][/u][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:53 AM (Qxe/p)

154 Everyone else is getting a bribe, where's mine?

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 02:52 PM (FcR7P)

i know right?!

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:53 AM (nqBYe)

155 Help me! I've been up for 4 days and I can't get down!

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg's Giant Raging Boner at November 15, 2013 10:54 AM (xm1A1)

156 We need the thing wiped off the books, and if that requires nearly bankrupting insurance companies until the exit the markets entirely, then we'll just have to do that.

Don't kid yourself about that "nearly" part. If you have any investments that could be touched by the collapsing health insurance industry, get out of them now.

This needs to be done and it will be unpleasant.

Posted by: Methos at November 15, 2013 10:54 AM (hO9ad)

157

Isn't it just damn funny (or tragic, perspective) that a law that's been in affect for just 45 days...............already needs to be "fixed?"

Think about the idiocy of that by itself. People have shit in their fridge for more than 45 days.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 10:54 AM (LA7Cm)

158
Posted by: J.J. Sefton

Sore? Gaping? Are you hungry?
Posted by: Jesse Pinkman

Wants to cuddle?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 15, 2013 10:54 AM (kdS6q)

159 I think Rubio, for a lot of reasons, has a romantic view of immigration. Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 02:50 PM (T0NGe) He would like you to think so, and the Chamber of Commerce recruited him for exactly this purpose.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 10:54 AM (Y92Nd)

160 In terms of actual effect, I think repeal is the only way to help people. This thing is too screwy to fix.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 02:47 PM (uhAkr)

We don't disagree as to the destination, just on how to get there. There has to be enough pressure bult up to get either Reid replaced or have him fear replacement so that the Senate can vote. Then enough pressure to have an effective counter to the veto threat. That takes time and that takes convincing people, and closing out options puts them more favorable than not to full repeal.

That's my take.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 15, 2013 10:55 AM (hLRSq)

161

Isn't it just damn funny (or tragic, perspective) that a law that's been in affect for just 45 days...............already needs to be "fixed?"

And not just fixed. Completely gutted and warped into something totally different.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:55 AM (4df7R)

162

Everyone else is getting a bribe, where's mine?

Check is in the mail, buddy.

Posted by: insurance guy at November 15, 2013 10:56 AM (HVff2)

163 Landreu bill has no expiration date. To a lesser degree, it creates both a government and private insurance sector. I guess the risks there are that the government sector isn't going to play nice with the private sector.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 10:56 AM (uhAkr)

164 That you could have written this sentence just demonstrates that you don't understand how Obamacare, or health insurance markets, work. ------------------ Wow. A career as a spook, a career as an insurance company executive, a career as a health policy expert, and of course, a career as a lawyer. You sure pack a lot of living into just 32 years.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 10:56 AM (CJjw5)

165
Everyone else is getting a bribe, where's mine?

----

About that $2500.00 I promised you.......

Posted by: King Putt at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (nELVU)

166 Easy there, fat and vapid are one thing but there's nothing wrong with betitted.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 02:48 PM (7ObY1)

Unless you are talking Michael Moore

Posted by: tofer732 at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (z3MpN)

167

165 Isn't it just damn funny (or tragic, perspective) that a law that's been in affect for just 45 days...............already needs to be "fixed?"

Actually its been in effect longer with the "free" check ups "free" colonoscopies, kids on the plan until 26, acceptance of pre-existing conditions., etc. etc.

Posted by: insurance guy at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (HVff2)

168 >>Maybe SCOAMF and the Dems are in such a pickle that even the GOP can't fuck this up. Posted by: J.J. Sefton Oh, yee of little faith.

Posted by: Aviator at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (DI+ja)

169 Â“I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period.Â’

- President Barack Obama before a Joint Session of Congress, 09.09.09

Any insurance bailout would certainly do that' thus, Rubio should name his bill the Â‘Helping President Obama Keep His Promise Act.Â’

Rub some more salt in the wound.

FTR: The GAO has projected that Obamacare will add $6.2 trillion to the countryÂ’s long-term deficitÂ…and that was when they were expecting everything to go perfectly.

http://tinyurl.com/bgwdqqv

Posted by: Predictable History at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (y/pEK)

170

And, all of this angst so far is just over 5% of the population. Cats and dogs living together, etc., etc.

Can you imagine what it's going to be like when 90-100 million Americans get it next year?

H.O.L.Y S.H.I.T

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 10:57 AM (LA7Cm)

171 It's totes uncanny how nobody on the left or in the MSM saw this coming from the most transparent administration evar!

Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (UzPAd)

172 and i still don't get free BC.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (nqBYe)

173 Of course this won't get passed Harry Reid. No one thinks it will. That is obvious. This move, like todays, is just designed to get Dems on the record as supporting unpopular aspects of the law before the election. This thing will not repealed without the votes to override. You get those votes by pressuring Dems to cross the aisle and/or a bloodbath next November. These tactics are steps designed to improve the number needed for repeal.

Posted by: Use your heads at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (ugAvG)

174

Whatever happens -- if Obammy vetoes Upton or Landrieu's bills, or if he doesn't; if Rubio's bailout repeal gets through or it doesn't -- the next year or more is going to be VERY VERY BAD. Not just for those already impacted, but for everyone. Health insurance is going to be insanely expensive and it's going to be a nightmare getting anything done, be it a minor procedure or a major surgery.

Take care of each other. That's teh only way we'll all get through this.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (4df7R)

175 Whenever I see Ace's Oh My, I visualize him wearing a HotAir mask.* *a bit old and shelved Ed's; or new and shiny, although dark, Allah's

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (IXrOn)

176

So we're going to destroy insurance companies in order to save them?

That's a good thing... how??? I can't imagine how the end result is anything other than single payer, which is the ONE thing they wanted all along.

Looks to me like Rubio is handing it to them. Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks to me like more of the same. Us against them. The "them" is everybody in Washington, protecting the government class.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (TOk1P)

177 when your enemy is strangulating himself, extend the procedure to produce maximum damage ( rather than getting it over with quickly )

Posted by: stuff Sun Tzu said but didn't write down at November 15, 2013 10:58 AM (omBWL)

178 You sure pack a lot of living into just 32 years. Maybe he's a lawyer for the CIA, covering health issues undercover as an insurance executive. You never know.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at November 15, 2013 10:59 AM (i2Lsf)

179 Landreu bill has no expiration date. To a lesser degree, it creates both a government and private insurance sector. This is the German model, as I remember it. So, they grab the whole industry and end up with half of it. Did we win?

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 10:59 AM (FcR7P)

180 Also, could someone paste the part where this country full of Free Shitters demands a free-market healthcare system after the inevitable collapse of Obamacare, instead of then clamoring for single-payer? Because I missed that part.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 10:59 AM (CJjw5)

181

The only LIV people who are paying attention to this particular legislative fight are the people who had their insurance policies cancelled. All they are hearing is that the Republican's just passed a bill that could help them retain that insurance. The democrats and Obama can do nothing except prevent that or go along with it. If it doesn't work its because Obamacare is to broke to fix. It will remain on Obama and the Democrats.

There is no downside.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 10:59 AM (m2CN7)

182

176 and i still don't get free BC.

Hey, I'll slide you some good stuff through your port

Posted by: honest dependable guy at November 15, 2013 10:59 AM (HVff2)

183 This is one helluva nasty war we've got going on in DC. It's sickening. Any, wearying.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 11:00 AM (IXrOn)

184 well i guess the Insurance companies and Lawyers will make out great on this deal if no one else does.

Lawyer sues Insurance govt/WE pay out.
repeat as needed.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 11:00 AM (nqBYe)

185 184 Also, could someone paste the part where this country full of Free Shitters demands a free-market healthcare system after the inevitable collapse of Obamacare, instead of then clamoring for single-payer? Because I missed that part. Our best bet is to promose them the Before-Time.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (uhAkr)

186 Code Name: Speculum

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (ZshNr)

187 I wonder if any of them were lowballing just to keep the exchange prices from looking too ridiculous? Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 15, 2013 02:36 PM (QF8uk) The insurance commissioner in Md. forced companies to do just that. Aetna left the state because of it.

Posted by: Weirddave at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (N/cFh)

188 >>What does Meghan McCain think ... Well, nothing. There is only a slight buzzing noise in the background, other than that no one is home.

Posted by: Aviator at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (DI+ja)

189 honest dependable guy..

o sure.

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (nqBYe)

190 Nice of Rubio to hang this one out there before Obama's Downfall-scene with the insurance execs. Dear Big Health - If you like that administration vibrator hanging out of your anus, you can keep that administration vibrator hanging out of your anus. But in the end it won't save you.

Posted by: JEM at November 15, 2013 11:01 AM (o+SC1)

191

187
This is one helluva nasty war we've got going on in DC.

It's sickening.

Any, wearying

True, but for once our guys aren't squatting in the latrine

Posted by: Beatle Bailey at November 15, 2013 11:02 AM (HVff2)

192

161
Isn't it just damn funny (or tragic, perspective) that a law that's been in affect for just 45 days...............already needs to be "fixed?"

45 days?

No no...it has been doing damage since it was passed.

Our insurance premiums have nearly tripled since 2010.

People have lost their jobs, or had their hours cut back.

Some small businesses have closed because of this law.

It's because of the 'Lookback' period that is mentioned in the law...that is causing things to be done in advance of its implementation date.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2013 11:02 AM (c87DZ)

193 So we're going to destroy insurance companies in order to save them? If Upton/Landrieu passes, then insurance companies donÂ’t need to be on the exchange to survive.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 15, 2013 11:02 AM (QF8uk)

194 "You are living in another fucking universe, buddy. No offense, but you seem to think that if the GOP sits back and says to America "suffer, little children that they will somehow benefit from that. No. You have to look like you're trying to help." What the GOP should say is, "We keep trying to repeal it, but we don't have the votes. It is bad legislation that is hurting Americans who were lied to by a president they wanted very much to trust. We tried to warn you, but elections have consequences." Democrats didn't want help writing or passing the bill. Until the death spiral began, there were enough koolaid drinkers saying Republicans were afraid it would be successful and popular. You -- and they -- are the delusional ones. There is nothing the GOP can do to help right now, because the only thing that helps America is the full repeal of this POS, not repeal and replace or any other tinkering. Leave it alone till then.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 11:02 AM (Y92Nd)

195

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 02:59 PM (CJjw5)

The FSAs are either on Medicaid already or they don't care enough about the subject to sign up for it. Obamaphones are nice and shiny and you can touch them; insurance is none of those things and was never high on the FSA agenda because it doesn't deal with an immediate gratification.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 15, 2013 11:02 AM (hLRSq)

196 You sure pack a lot of living into just 32 years. Maybe he's a lawyer for the CIA, covering health issues undercover as an insurance executive. You never know. Sounds legit. /s

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 11:03 AM (p9JxP)

197 Can you imagine what it's going to be like when 90-100 million Americans get it next year?

H.O.L.Y S.H.I.T

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 02:57 PM (LA7Cm)

---

it's already starting.

The guy that does our employee plans got a notice from our current carrier of a 80% increase in premiums.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 15, 2013 11:03 AM (nELVU)

198

194 honest dependable guy..

o sure.

I promise!!! It won't be a mistaken promise either..........

Posted by: honest dependable guy at November 15, 2013 11:04 AM (HVff2)

199 It's totes uncanny how nobody on the left or in the MSM saw this coming from the most transparent administration evar!
Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2013 02:58 PM

I think the Democrats, tutored by old, drug-warped hippies from the '60s who became college professors, Black Panthers and endless books on Marxism, socialism and one-worldism, all wanted what Choom Boy was promising, in a theoretical "what a wonderful world it would be" way.

Now, some of them are realizing that, holy shit, he REALLY MEANS IT!

Kinda scares 'em a wee bit.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 11:04 AM (kaGpp)

200 and i still don't get free BC. Hey, I'll slide you some good stuff through your port That'what they all say. IT'S A TRAP!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 11:04 AM (p9JxP)

201 I'm with Tattoo on this.

and now i need to knead the bread. bl

Posted by: willow at November 15, 2013 11:04 AM (nqBYe)

202 "I can't imagine how the end result is anything other than single payer, which is the ONE thing they wanted all along. Looks to me like Rubio is handing it to them. " Winner winner chicken dinner.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 11:04 AM (Y92Nd)

203 @201 - yeah, our deductibles doubled this year and a whole lot of other little niceties flew the coop.

Posted by: JEM at November 15, 2013 11:05 AM (o+SC1)

204 Weirddave, thanks for that tip RE Maryland.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 15, 2013 11:05 AM (QF8uk)

205

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 03:04 PM (p9JxP

Hmmm have we attended the same trapping school?

Posted by: honest dependable guy at November 15, 2013 11:06 AM (HVff2)

206 People will want to flee to a Government based system after the Government imposed plan destroyed health insurance? Not likely. Could even lead to a boon in deregulation, but that's just me dreaming.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 15, 2013 11:06 AM (ZshNr)

207

184 -

I'm scanning the comments here, and other than you, I'm not sure who the sane people are around here anymore. Including the host. Those people up in Washington suddenly finding solutions to this doesn't scare you all?

Then I see Jeff B creaming himself over this, and if THAT isn't enough to make people around here suspicious, I don't know what will.

Single payer, it is. Sponsored by, your buddies Mark Ruby and Mary Landrow.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2013 11:06 AM (TOk1P)

208

Maybe SCOAMF and the Dems are in such a pickle that even the GOP can't fuck this up.

Well, then, I guess we're going to have to go right to Ludicrous Speed!

Posted by: The GOP! at November 15, 2013 11:07 AM (NF2Bf)

209 >> This was of course a bribe to insurance companies, to get them to sign on to Obamacare. It's not that it put money in their pockets, exactly; but it did indemnify them against Obamacare losses. Actually, no. Insurance companies had no way to price premiums for the plans on the exchange, since they're dramatically different than pre-ACA plans. So to hold the premiums down from what they'd otherwise be in a "we can't accurately gauge this potentially bankrupting risk" scenario, the ACA put in temporary risk corridors (as did Medicare Part D) to give insurers time to develop accurate pricing data. The intent of the risk corridors isn't Insurance Company Bailout!!11!, it's "Make Plans Affordable so we can show how awesomez the Obamacare is". And look how well it worked. That's the real story here ... even with the short-term risk capped for insurers, the premiums are eye-popping.

Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2013 11:07 AM (r7Gg5)

210 Single payer will not be proposed by any GOPer. However, yesterday I predicted it will be brought up in less than 18 months.

Posted by: honest dependable guy at November 15, 2013 11:07 AM (HVff2)

211 Just sent Rubio an e-mail encouraging this. Yeah, I know, he'll never live down his amnesty flip, but this "fix" should at least bring this little known aspect involving perverse incentives and tax bail-outs to the cronies into the light. Keep hitting them.

Posted by: Trotsky with an ice-pick in his head at November 15, 2013 11:07 AM (MAlP4)

212 So we're going to destroy insurance companies in order to save them?

They're going to be destroyed anyway, covering 80% of their losses wasn't going to change that, just take longer. Allowing Obamacare to destroy a few quickly will serve to get the rest properly motivated.

Unless you like putting the taxpayer on the hook for postponing the inevitable.

Posted by: Methos at November 15, 2013 11:08 AM (hO9ad)

213 stinky sock off

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 15, 2013 11:08 AM (HVff2)

214 Red headline nood up!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 11:09 AM (p9JxP)

215 Nice talking with you, Willow. Have a good day.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 11:09 AM (Y92Nd)

216 @203 - There's a whole lot of Democrats who really believe there's always money for everything, that all they have to do is cut a few F-35s or something (hey, anyone wanna buy an LCS, cheap?) and they can pay for anything. They really don't get the idea of things actually being paid for.

Posted by: JEM at November 15, 2013 11:09 AM (o+SC1)

217 217 stinky sock off Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 15, 2013 03:08 PM (HVff2) picks up stinky sock Sock. Sock for sale. Only a buck.

Posted by: Mayor Rob Ford jonesin' for a fix at November 15, 2013 11:11 AM (fWAjv)

218 New one! Someone fetch willow!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 15, 2013 11:11 AM (4df7R)

219

216 So we're going to destroy insurance companies in order to save them?

It was all in the plan. The insurance company bailout was designed to get on board and over the implementation hump. Then after their usefulness was exhaulsted, they would be allowed to sink to give rise to single payer.

Posted by: Havedash at November 15, 2013 11:13 AM (gvqyH)

220 That's the real story here ... even with the short-term risk capped for insurers, the premiums are eye-popping. Posted by: Andy +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And what happens when the insurance companies step from the end of the corridor? Cheaper rates? Hot, ass thumping unicorn sex? Liberty? Or, none of the above?

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 11:14 AM (LSJmV)

221

Landreu's bill does gut Obamacare's funding and solvency mechanisms and will lead to it's death, but not quickly. Rubio's bill in conjunction with Landreu's will be the coup de gras that will put it down for good.

Posted by: truth fairy at November 15, 2013 11:21 AM (ue2Nm)

222 >> And what happens when the insurance companies step from the end of the corridor? Cheaper rates? Hot, ass thumping unicorn sex? Liberty? Or, none of the above? I'll take that last option. Especially as to the Liberty choice, which looks deader than a doornail these days. On the topic at hand, though, remember that health insurers effectively became a government regulated utility under ACA, which now controls premium increases and requires medical loss ratios of 80%-85% (meaning they have to spend that percentage of premium dollars on claims, and not on "fat cat executive salaries" or whatever).

Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2013 11:25 AM (AJNIf)

223 206 "I can't imagine how the end result is anything other than single payer, which is the ONE thing they wanted all along. Looks to me like Rubio is handing it to them. " Winner winner chicken dinner. Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 03:04 PM (Y92N) -------- As someone stated up thread, if the dems revert to this route, they'll have to start all over from scratch.

Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2013 11:25 AM (GVvVl)

224 As someone stated up thread, if the dems revert to this route, they'll have to start all over from scratch. Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2013 03:25 PM (GVvVl) But it seems they know how to play the long game. This is going to be the campaign issue for America's historic first woman president.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (Y92Nd)

225

Thanks for the help, conservatives. You are going to make happen what I failed to make happen.

Posted by: Fat Ghost of Ted Kennedy at November 15, 2013 12:41 PM (yHRnI)

226 Good for Rubio, but he's still disqualified himself for the Presidency with Schumer's immigration bill.

Posted by: McAdams at November 15, 2013 12:48 PM (DroxO)

227 The Repubs should also pass a law reversing ALL of the exemptions given to unions, companies, government employees, and executive and congressional staff. What's good for one is good for ALL. Make the wOn veto that!! Any changes to the original law should ONLY be done through the normal legislative process!!!

Posted by: Hangtown Bob at November 15, 2013 03:00 PM (j2K+S)

228 Yeah, they should demand enforcement of the law as is, and demand all changes happen through the legislative process. Plus every time Harry Reid prevents a vote, trot out more of O-Care's victims. These people are more important than the 800,000 "furloughed" Feds the media was crying about last month.

Posted by: Iblis at November 15, 2013 03:35 PM (2EQwu)

229 But now Rubio wants to put insurers in the same place as citizens -- fully exposed to the wrecking-ball harms of Obamacare. Interesting, but no redemption.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 16, 2013 06:04 PM (VVsZ2)

230 Anyone know the Section of HR 3590 where this appears?

Posted by: VT-Rider at November 20, 2013 12:46 PM (u1klS)

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