March 14, 2013
— Ace Allen G., who doesn't have a blog but probably should, wrote:
Actually, I like that idea of a speaking circuit [of sending conservatives out to speak on college campuses]. And specifically of bloggers and "minor players." Further, you need a group that is not directly linked to any of the Conservative players.Then, it's not "The College Republicans Hosting [Whomever]," rather it's "The Open Ideas Society* Hosting [Whomever]."
This is a hobbyhorse of mine. The left never brands itself as the Left or Liberal, does it? No, they brand themselves for everyone.
We need to start doing that. For example, we shouldn't have an organization named "League of Conservative Women." (There is no such league; this is a for-instance.) We should have a "League of Women," period. Not just for "conservative women." But for all women.
We tend to brand ourselves -- and worse yet, we've internalized this to the point where we think of ourselves this way -- as "the conservative alternative."
We need start branding ourselves as, and thinking of ourselves as, the Universal Default.
This is how leftists do it and they're quite effective at it. On every cable TV show we see a debate between an "expert" and a "conservative." The "expert" is actually liberal but he insists on not being branded as such, so he becomes just "the expert."
Just in terms of the introductions, who's winning that debate? The expert (nonpolitical and learned to such an extent as to be an "expert") or the conservative (a guy coming on TV to sell you on an ideology, who, gee whiz, isn't even an expert in the subject matter)?
Every decision point is a possible failure point. Every step in a seduction or a sale (pardon this analogy) which requires a yes or no response is a possible failure point in the process.
Right up front, right from Jump Street, we give the world its first yes/no decision/failure point by identifying as conservative (or permitting the media to so brand us). Right way, there's a potential failure point, because we're asking first "Do you like conservative ideas or don't you?" Some say yes, but others say No, and thus the sale/seduction fails at the "Can I talk with you a moment?" phase.
The liberal cruises right on by that point because he hasn't asked for a decision. He didn't introduce himself as a "Liberal" trying to make a sale or get you into bed. He's just an Expert giving you some Expert Opinion, you know.
How can you say no to that? Golly jeepers, usually you'd have to pay $200 per hour for that sort of thing, and this guy's giving it to you gratis!!!
Now, the "Expert" can fail later but he can't fail over the first decision point because he's avoided the decision point entirely.
On the other hand, we can fail before we even say a word.
I continue to think that Arnold Schwarzenegger -- whatever else you think of him -- gave one of the most persuasive speeches I've ever heard at the 2004 Republican National Convention. Notice he never asks a question here (well, he puts it in the "If you believe..." form, but that's essentially a question) that almost anyone could say "No" to. It's instead a series of questions which 90% of the public would say "Yes" to. He rhetorically avoids all the Decision/Failure points.
Posted by: Ace at
12:56 PM
| Comments (398)
Post contains 566 words, total size 4 kb.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 12:58 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 12:58 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 12:58 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 12:59 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Barry Soetoro: Expert at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (wIgpo)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Adriane loves the Classics but is Easily Confused at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (TvO05)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:00 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:01 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:01 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Austin in TX at March 14, 2013 01:01 PM (F9Hpt)
You seem to be forgetting the rule (I can't remember whose it is)
"Any organization not expressly constituted as conservative will become liberal over time."
Posted by: MikeTheMoose DOOMCASTER! at March 14, 2013 01:01 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 01:02 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:02 PM (IZIoZ)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:02 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:02 PM (DlaLh)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:03 PM (XkWWK)
Sorta like when I went to Students for a Democratic Society meetings in 1971-73?
There would be no democracy in their fascist plans and society be damned.
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 01:03 PM (+I8Mq)
I think we need a League of Hot Conservative Women. Sorta covers all the bases.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 01:04 PM (6TB1Z)
The newest threat to the Homeland, worse than man-made disasters, worse than elementary school bullying, worse than those people that insist on their Constitutional Rights........the Universal Default Movement.
Posted by: Miz Napolitano, wearing a flannel shirt at March 14, 2013 01:04 PM (TIIx5)
Thats a good way to explain what you've written about today.
Posted by: JarvisW at March 14, 2013 01:04 PM (E7Iyp)
Yeah, Ace.
The Left likes to condemn...'Stereotypes'.
They rail about it, and cluck about how "we shouldn't use Stereotypes!"
And yet...they always use conservative stereotypes.
We need a conservative show named: 'Stereotype Busters'
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 01:04 PM (2xMNt)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:04 PM (IZIoZ)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 01:05 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 01:05 PM (CRDPR)
Fix utube linky please...
Oh, and "duh". The worst opening line in sales is "can I help you" (or any other closed end Q), yet that's exactly how many on the right seem to approach pretty much everything.
And snark. Forgot about that, but the Right Wing needs to pick up it's game. If you're too shocked to throw out lines, or want to take the time to craft the perfect repartee, well, you'll seem stupid or dull.
You want to wrestle a pig? You're gonna get dirty. Trust me on that.
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:06 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:06 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:06 PM (EweV2)
The Orange Junk Society presents....
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 05:05 PM (CRDPR)
You'll get my Cheetos from my cold, dead hands.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 01:07 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:07 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:07 PM (xIzGn)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 01:07 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:07 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (QF8uk)
Posted by: Zyclon-B at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (yLuBK)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (QupBk)
Allen G doesn't have a blog? Why don't you reprobates TELL me these things?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 04:58 PM (TIIx5)
It's sensitive , we're trying to be discreet for his sake.
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (AWmfW)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 01:08 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (LCRYB)
You sorta touched on it in the last paragraph, but let me see if I can expound on this:
Right up front, right from Jump Street, we give the world its first yes/no decision/failure point by identifying as conservative (or permitting the media to so brand us). Right way, there's a potential failure point, because we're asking first "Do you like conservative ideas or don't you?" Some say yes, but others say No, and thus the sale/seduction fails at the "Can I talk with you a moment?" phase.
The liberal cruises right on by that point because he hasn't asked for a decision. He didn't introduce himself as a "Liberal" trying to make a sale or get you into bed. He's just an Expert giving you some Expert Opinion, you know.
What liberals excel at is "Training Them To Say Yes."
Don't you agree that people should be free to choose things for themselves? Yes.
Do you agree that people should be allowed to make their own health care decisions? Yes. Of course.
NOW GET IN THERE AND KILL YOUR UNBORN CHILD!!!
Okay, maybe the last one is a little hamfisted, but that's how they sell the harder stuff. You have to START with the things on which you agree. Why would you begin with an adversarial opening, whether you're selling cars or your philosophy? You've just positioned yourself as the enemy. Who the fuck wants to buy anything from their enemy.
How I discuss my beliefs here is definitely not how I do it in meatspace. Not that I never use the arguments, mockery or psyche-rape, I just don't *lead* with it. You catch more flies with honey. But if you don't, you can always swat them later.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 01:09 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: © Sponge at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (xmcEQ)
Posted by: akula51 at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (hNXHo)
The Foundation for the Betterment of Everything
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: soothsayer
Truth in Taxes Bill:
All Federal welfare programs are to be listed on each and every paycheck.
Are you against the truth? How could you be against the truth??!!
Only bad people want lies on the paychecks of the workers! You aren't a bad person, are you?
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (QF8uk)
>>okay, marketing geniuses, now explain how we're going to compete with the giveaways
Give money for the Children!
Posted by: Mama AJ, Concerned Citizens for the Children at March 14, 2013 01:10 PM (SUKHu)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 01:11 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 01:11 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (A7Wh1)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (XkWWK)
...
----------
To illustrate this point, Ace, we need a super-cut of many many examples of this happening during the last few years.. with a paused interjection of how and why the "expert" is really from a liberal institution.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (UypUQ)
Involved in
Nothing
Organizationally
Substantive Posted by: Regular Moron
People
United who
Resist
Improper
Thoughts
Yes!
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:12 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: Al Bundy at March 14, 2013 01:13 PM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:13 PM (HzhBE)
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 14, 2013 01:13 PM (IY7Ir)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:13 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 01:13 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (yhYn1)
The Foundation for the Advancement of Ideas that You Like Best
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (XkWWK)
The Empowerment Society.
The joke being, you empower people by giving them facts, instead of empowering them by hamstringing through government all other players.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (NJs1e)
featuring Ben Shapiro, Charles Cooke, and Dr. Benjamin Carson as guest speakers
*beer is not free
Posted by: The Q at March 14, 2013 01:14 PM (yVmMc)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 01:15 PM (NJs1e)
Congrats, Allen. That was a thoughtful comment.
I had a comment promoted to a post, once. It was something about how to get your wife to bang you when she's tired or not in the mood, or something.
My agent's already been giving me the talk about typecasting. FML.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:15 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 01:16 PM (/kI1Q)
The Irony Club
That would be like heroin for college kids.
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 05:08 PM (vl5mg)"
I suggest that chapters of College Republicans change their names to this immediately. Imagine if millions of PBR drinking hipsters had voted for Romney ironically?
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 01:16 PM (31Nrp)
Posted by: USS Diversity at March 14, 2013 01:16 PM (+bZOu)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 01:16 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:16 PM (XkWWK)
"Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong.""
This, this, this X 10,000.
I nearly got shot @ another site for pointing out this obvious (well, should be) point - "against Obama/beating Obama" was a losing proposition from day one - give people something to be FOR and you'll go much, much further. (and no, I don't buy into the "media hates us" drivel. Go cry in your oatmeal, 'kay?)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: toby928© Crypto-Fashionist at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (HzhBE)
Are you sure about that? I've always read that Hitler was convinced it would be at Calais, and that's why he refused to release the Panzers that Rommel wanted, and which might actually have pushed the invasion back into the sea.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (6TB1Z)
Independent Women's Forum:
http://www.iwf.org/
Posted by: derit at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (I88Jc)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 05:16 PM (/kI1Q)
Heh. How you doin'?
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (4OvDk)
I agree
CPAC: Is the ‘C-Word’ the Problem?
http://tinyurl.com/b6vsmhk
Posted by: kbdabear at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (mCvL4)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 01:17 PM (MMC8r)
Because that is Day One, Lesson One at the Recruiter Course.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (EweV2) :::
No, but that is definitely how my recruiter got his hooks into me. By the time he was done, he could have sold me a dose of the clap.
He ended up giving it to me for free, though.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: MJ at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (vl5mg)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (feFL6)
I had a comment promoted to a post, once. It was something about how to get your wife to bang you when she's tired or not in the mood, or something.
My agent's already been giving me the talk about typecasting. FML.
Enough with the emo "woe is me" crap. Make with the dick jokes.
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: 554th! down there at March 14, 2013 01:18 PM (7iLfu)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 01:19 PM (MMC8r)
The Council For Getting Attractive People To Have Sex With You
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:19 PM (HzhBE)
Just came in to repeat Mike the Moose
"Any organization not expressly constituted as conservative will become liberal over time."
And HeatherRadish, I think you nead a "sploosh" instead. YOu know. For the womyn.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 01:19 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: sven10077 at March 14, 2013 01:19 PM (0trJE)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:19 PM (EweV2)
Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong."
What I don't understand is why people should even be WRONG to want that. Who doesn't want to be smarter? More educated, competent?
It's a weird sort of reverse snobbery that denigrates people (even conservatives) who try to pitch their arguments on more intellectual levels. As if they should be ashamed to even be trying to compete on that plane.
We lose massive amounts of cultural cachet by conceding that area to the left. We're basically saying, by implication, that "liberalism is for smart educated people and conservatism is for more mediocre, salt-of-the-earth intellects." I know that's not the branding people WANT to think we're giving off...but it fucking is, and you only need to look at every single media representation of conservatives in the last forty years to realize this is the ghetto they've (more successfully now that WE have apparently given up on it too!) pushed us into.
This, incidentally, gets at the root of my problems with installing a person like Sarah Palin as the Avatar of Conservatism. Why do you think the left wanted her in that role so badly? Because they know something that her fans didn't perceive: that we get crushed nationally when that happens because her "brand" is Stupid, whether fair or not. (And you can't un-brand, so it's pointless to cry about how she ended up with that label or whether it was fair or not. It's fait accompli, and everything else is dicta.)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:20 PM (/Rmj0)
EFA
---
edit.
But its already been taken...
http://economicfreedomalliance.org
:\
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:20 PM (UypUQ)
No.
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 05:14 PM (DsPRa)
Splitters!
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 01:20 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: pep at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (6TB1Z):::
Back to my oar, then.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (CJjw5)
Posted by: Joe at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (7pOq5)
The Erudite Utopian Society
or for short The EruditeOpian
ooooor the The EruditeOpium Society
Whatever like.... blows your skirt up man.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: we can't say we are [i]Americans[/i] anymore at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (XYSwB)
You are conflating two Allied deception operations--Operation Mincemeat involved the floating corpse--supposedly indicating invasion of Greece and Sardinia and not the actual invasion spot which was Sicily. Operation Fortitude deceived Nazis regarding where invasion of Europe was involved. Fortitude was a huge operation even snagging Gen. Patton as the fictitious commander of a fake army.
See Bodyguard of Lies as a good description of Allied Deception in WWII.
Posted by: wg at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (Nos+Z)
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at March 14, 2013 01:21 PM (CRDPR)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 01:22 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:22 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:22 PM (XkWWK)
How do you make people be FOR something they don't want?
The thing I'm seeing is when we say "you should have an economy that provides opportunities to succeed" and "we think you should be able to keep the fruits of your labor" people hear "we're gonna make you work." How do you make that more appealing than "you should have more stuff, we'll take from those jerks and give it to you"?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 01:22 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: we can't say we are [i]Americans[/i] anymore at March 14, 2013 01:22 PM (XYSwB)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 01:23 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:23 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 01:23 PM (yLuBK)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:23 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:23 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:24 PM (CJjw5)
The Foundation for Making Good Things Even Better
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:24 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: BuddyPC at March 14, 2013 01:24 PM (jfUIE)
People Enlightened by Natural Intellect Society?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 05:24 PM (XkWWK)
-
We already have that, it is just nicknamed the teacher's union
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (TIIx5)
Hitler thought his super-weapons would destroy all enemies of the Riech
Mussolini had a weenie, but it wouldn't work
Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (XkWWK)
Conservative Blonds and Gingers for the Promotion of Pron, Chicken and Limited Government
Posted by: thunderb at March 14, 2013 01:25 PM (Dnbau)
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (P0ioy)
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Smokey the Voting Bear at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: John McCain's Desperation
Are you mad?
Such technology does not exist!
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: 554th! down there at March 14, 2013 05:18 PM (7iLfu)
------------------------------------------
Can't get anything to play for me today, but the singer's name sounds like this might be the one I was trying to remember.
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 01:26 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: zsasz at March 14, 2013 01:27 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 01:27 PM (H2u3i)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:27 PM (HzhBE)
We'll hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (pLvWv)
There have been multiple comments on the blog here that talk about forums about various subjects they used to read that have turned into liberal cesspools. So is there a good way to avoid this from happening?
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
Set in the bylaws that meetings are not valid unless the Chair has a shovel and a bag of quicklime sitting next to the gavel.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (dlAh+)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (yLuBK)
Unless somebody has already taken it.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (31Nrp)
The answer is that it's not really an ironclad rule. It's just an observed outcome (and one that isn't always true, either). Institutions are kept with a certain ideological positioning and valence by the people who run them. Vigilance and smart staffing will always solve that problem.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 01:28 PM (ZshNr)
"Can't sell that. People will not change their fundamental core just because you say "You're wrong."
What I don't understand is why people should even be WRONG to want that. Who doesn't want to be smarter? More educated, competent"
But we on the right seem to be stuck on "wrong" - sadly. Oh, and your last para on Ms. Palin? Spot on perfect.
"Enough with the emo "woe is me" crap. Make with the dick jokes"
That's the crux of the whole thing, and maybe why Ace is pounding this topic so - here is a group of fairly Right Wing folks who can slice & dice policy all day long and still throw down a dick joke or twelve - it's fun. Welcoming. In good cheer.
I promise that if the LIVs of the world were exposed to this they'd have a very different view of what "conservatism" means.
Or run screaming from their monitor...
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (EweV2)
People Who, You Know, Just Like Hanging Out And Having The Government Off Their Backs And Having Fun And Stuff
Posted by: fb at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (JVEmw)
Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (ZWvOb)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (4OvDk)
The Sith Society but Darth Cheney has to be head honcho.
Posted by: YIKES! at March 14, 2013 01:29 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Buzzion at March 14, 2013 05:26 PM (P0ioy)
Define the new groups as anti-progressive?
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (yLuBK)
Posted by: @PurpAv at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (/gHaE)
Posted by: fb going for the kill at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (JVEmw)
It's a weird sort of reverse snobbery that denigrates people (even conservatives) who try to pitch their arguments on more intellectual levels. As if they should be ashamed to even be trying to compete on that plane."
Congrats ace, you got Jeff B. validating you. Take this thread and the last and put it in context of the real world and it don't mean shit. We don't lose elections because we're turning off wannbe intellectuals. The whole culture has shifted and it ain't coming back. People want a big government, people want an entitlement government, people want a society of loose morals, etc. etc.
Emulate Chris Hayes and Rachael Maddox, don't use the word "conservative", good freak'n grief.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (7Nq2G)
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 01:30 PM (OlN4e)
Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society.
I think this is what they mean by a "secret society", as in, it doesn't exist.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (NJs1e)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (bxiXv)
We'll hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer
***
We'll lick 'em yet!
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (uhftQ)
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 01:31 PM (DsPRa)
The Foundation to Give Everyone Everything They Want.
That was actually an answer to a question by a 4th grader when asked "what should Prez Obama do to help people?" "Give everyone everything they want." Some other kid said first "give the homeless money" but that wasn't good enough I guess.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:32 PM (NQq8e)
"conservative." The "expert" is actually liberal but he insists on not being branded as such, so he becomes just "the expert."
--------------------------------------
Several years ago I saw Shelby Steele paired up with some douchewagon on some CNN-type cable news channel or another, and during the introductions the host (whoever it was) said something like, "Joining me now are Professor Douchewagon, from the (X) Center of (Y) Policy Advancement, and conservative author Shelby Steele...." At which point Shelby piped in and said, "Am I to assume that Professor Douchewagon is a political liberal?" Which somewhat stupefied the host, who said something like, "Why would you ask that?" So Shelby said, "Well, since I was readily identified as the conservative in this debate, I was confused as to why you didn't identify my counterpart's liberal credentials." It was BEAUTIFUL.
Posted by: Norman Bean at March 14, 2013 01:32 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:32 PM (EweV2)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 14, 2013 01:32 PM (jucos)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:33 PM (xIzGn)
I bet that would require an unusual initiation ceremony.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (EweV2) :::
I'll get the ice cubes and licorice whips.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 14, 2013 01:33 PM (CJjw5)
I have personal experience with many forums (some that might well surprise you!) having begun as ultra-liberal, where I have actually managed to shift the balance of power far more towards the right just by being there to take on all comers -- not with snark or shouting, but with thought-out answers (and yes, a supercilious preening tone oftentimes...but then that's just me). What happens is that lurkers on the right suddenly begin to step forward and feel like they can speak out, because hey here's this prominent smart guy who's made being conservative Intellectually Respectable on the forum. Then people on the fence get pushed off onto our side, people start thinking "huh, there ARE thoughtful arguments to be made for the right," etc.
Andrew Jackson once said "one man with courage makes a majority." It isn't exactly true, and lord knows being a Proud Internet Commenter ain't exactly what I'd define as "courage," but the analogy still holds: be bold but respectful, take time to discuss, refute, and be good natured about it...and you'd be shocked what kinds of things you can shake up in pretty much any given forum. I once got nearly half the people in a news section of a Radiohead forum to vote for Bush over Kerry through sheer bloody-minded persistence.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:33 PM (/Rmj0)
On a related note, I've been of the belief that we are long overdue for an attack campaign to smear the "progressive" affiliation. That has been the boulder the left ran to after they finally learned the "liberal" label was too dangerous.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2013 01:33 PM (UypUQ)
Ever been in Sales?
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 05:32 PM (lbiWb)
Yes, but I'm an Engineer, and I have sold to other Engineers. Bullshit and lies are not welcomed. Nor is pointless gas.
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 01:33 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (C8mVl)
Posted by: People's Front for Conservatism at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (DsPRa)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (qNGSj)
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (UCv7P)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (4OvDk)
But this is putting the cart before the horse: how will the branding matter if the announcer/writer introduces you as the 'conservative' Political Action Forum?
There's more to it than just the name, methinks. You need to pull some of Gary Johnson's tricks and push hard on issues left wingers typically think of as left wing but can be reconsidered from a right wing perspective. Drug enforcement is one of them; gay marriage can be worked this way, too. On the first, you may be simply ultimately against 4th amendment abuse by malevolent government narcs, you throw up a screen of being 'pro drug' when necessary. Likewise with gay marriage, you come across as being pro gay marriage, when in reality you're for letting the states decide the issue, and thus are not against it if a state decides to be for it. This is Robert E Lee level conservatism, "What's best for Virginia."
More ideas of that sort would be useful.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:34 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 01:35 PM (H2u3i)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer
***
We'll lick 'em yet!
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 14, 2013 05:31 PM (uhftQ)**************
Can we change "Terrifying Organisms" to "Terrifying Orgasms"? Then I think we got it.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:35 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:35 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (EweV2)
Okay, let's ignore the ad hominem (ZOMG JEFF B. AGREES WITH SOMETHING THAT MUST DELEGITIMIZE THE POINT...so what does that mean for conservative ideology, given that I subscribe to 99% of it?). Let's just address this: what is your actual point here? That's it pointless to attempt to sell conservative values and ideas on anything except a mindless "cultural identity" level? Or that we should give up on the republic entirely, and commit hara-kiri or consign ourselves to generations of darkness?
I don't get your point. It just seems like bilious anger.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (A7Wh1)
"Yes, but I'm an Engineer, and I have sold to other Engineers"
Well, that's your first problem...
(kidding. Sort of)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (C0ttM)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 01:36 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: polynikes at March 14, 2013 01:38 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 14, 2013 01:38 PM (EweV2)
"It just seems like bilious anger."
Probably is. OTOH, "Bilious Anger" would make a great name...
Posted by: Jess1 at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (lbiWb)
Posted by: Soona at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (Nm/Lp)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (XkWWK)
Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are heroes right now not just because they FIGHT, but because of the WAY they fight. It's not cultural-ID stuff. It's not anti-intellectual stuff. They get up there and make thoughtful, incisive, slashingly rational and logical arguments. They absolutely radiate intelligence and thoughtfulness, they don't come off as proud know-nothings.
Even the liberals were swooning about Rand Paul's filibuster, and you know one of their key refrains was? "My god, he spoke for 13 hours about substance. He didn't just read a phone book, he talked smartly about the issues."
THAT, I think is the real key to Paul's appeal right now. He isn't just a mindless "NO," he's a convincing, intellectually-pitched "FUCK NO." It's an approach that works!
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: branding at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (XYSwB)
Tonight, more shocking news about "The Open Ideas Society," the now-notorious right wing front group that I first exposed last Christmas Eve...
Posted by: Rachel Maddow at March 14, 2013 01:39 PM (w41GQ)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 14, 2013 01:40 PM (HDgX3)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 14, 2013 01:40 PM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 01:40 PM (qNGSj)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (NQq8e)
I'm not and have never been a conservative, but I was once identified as one. At work. The identification was a rival's cunning revenge for my...not lying. Long story. I face-value followed a rule and didn't pretend that if I ignored it what I was really doing was being sophisticated about what rules are really all about, maaan. So she called me "a conservative," with that oh-shit-dude-she-called-you-a-conservative tone. You know the tone. Your TV has it. Realizing the danger, I made the "What the hell?" face, said no, and explained my rule-following to our superior (the audience for that identification) in purely work-related, rule-following, we-have-a-rule-or-we-don't terms.
And I was soon fired by that superior, for being "conservative." The word was used. I can, could, and always will be able to prove that I'm no such thing. (I'll fist you right now.) But in that situation, as in many, I didn't have a voice in the What I Am determination process.
So, call yourself whatever. They'll call you "conservative," and then you're fired. Because they're the boss of you (and often of me).
"So what do you suggest, Your Smugness?"
Nothing. It's both too late and too soon to do anything that'll work.
Breed, buy guns, be hard, be amused, hoard porn.
Posted by: oblig. at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (cePv8)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (3lLli)
Posted by: Ronster at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (pDjY6)
Posted by: Tenderheart (ghey Care Bear) at March 14, 2013 01:41 PM (Bx3LA)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at March 14, 2013 01:42 PM (H2u3i)
Man I wish he hadn't screwed the pooch in '12...
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (FsUAO)
He must have done well...he's front and center at Drudge 'Perry Rocks The House'.
Posted by: Tami[/i] at March 14, 2013 01:42 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 01:43 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:43 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 14, 2013 01:43 PM (4OvDk)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:40 PM (HzhBE)
****************
Who fucking cares.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:43 PM (NQq8e)
Kidding, of course. Sort of. Maybe. Heh.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2013 01:43 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 14, 2013 01:44 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 01:45 PM (KeJAW)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 14, 2013 01:45 PM (qNGSj)
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at March 14, 2013 01:45 PM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Whatev at March 14, 2013 01:45 PM (A7Wh1)
I agree with the two other people who already suggested this: the word EMPOWER or versions of it should be used a lot and be part of any titles chosen.
First the word gives an impression that people have lost power and then you tie it in to how to get it back.
Progressive left likes to lump evereyone into the one-fits-all category where they will need govt assistance. We should make a big deal about that not being the case and describe the society as it actually is. Some people will need a lot of assistance, some will need a little help to move up and those who need no help should be left alone.
We should keep stressing the natural human urge for upward mobility and that society's responsibility is to let that happen.
Posted by: Decaf at March 14, 2013 01:45 PM (aqwxP)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:46 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Ben Lange at March 14, 2013 01:46 PM (rK8uk)
I do have an idea though. Imagine the confusions if we took back the term liberal.
Posted by: Nate in New Orleans at March 14, 2013 01:46 PM (lhX9P)
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:47 PM (NQq8e)
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 14, 2013 01:47 PM (wR+pz)
Posted by: wheatie at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (2xMNt
Same here. I still have my Rick Perry Bitches! bumper sticker.
Pain meds while debating are not your friend.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2013 01:47 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Jean at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (XwDPQ)
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2013 01:48 PM (ZshNr)
"Let's just address this: what is your actual point here?"
The point is, the right is drowning in self delusion. From our politicians to our media and punditry right down to the blogosphere. While talking about how we're going to shift public opinion and culture may be an interesting way to kill a few hours it doesn't change shit.
The inability for most of us to recognize the country we live in is staggering. After November it should have been obvious but it's right back to same old same old, if we just message better, if we just get the right candidate, if we just do this and just do that.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 01:49 PM (7Nq2G)
The Association of Independents, Dependents and Others
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: RamonAllones at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (3lLli)
Take Green issues. You could do a huge green thing from a conservative angle, but based all on the concept of self-limitation (and no gov't meddling.) My feeling is that if there will be successful Green movement it will be from the right, since sustainability can only be sustained by individual effort and discipline; self limitation and self discipline. The left is par excellence at wanting the results of these things without a person ever sweating blood over mastering themselves to achieve them.
Posted by: RiverC at March 14, 2013 01:50 PM (El+h4)
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 05:36 PM (HzhBE)
I have to take issue with that one. Not all things that suck, suck......
Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2013 01:51 PM (OlN4e)
"The first thing the MSM does is label you a front group for a) tea party, b) Republicans or c) evil racist conservatives."
Hey Billy Bob, maybe we should try going in from behind. Unfortunately I agree with you. Thye would tack on ..."and also a..."
Media Whore Fuckers.
Posted by: Guido at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (NQq8e)
Advance or advancement are neutral words that should be used in a positive way.
Upward mobility that I mentioned in my last comment is a concept that should be promoted as being able to move up if you work hard.
These concept resonate with everyone yet do not have a political signature.
Posted by: Decaf at March 14, 2013 01:52 PM (aqwxP)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s] at March 14, 2013 01:53 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: ace at March 14, 2013 01:54 PM (LCRYB)
low and slow,
Wither we convince the populace to take a better direction or we forcefully take that direction ourselves in a real way. I'm going to try to persuade first.
Reading Common Sense, it's the same as it was then. The eyes must be opened that the current state of affairs is unacceptable. That will only happen when services collapse and taxes skyrocket due to pension burdens. At best.
Posted by: imp at March 14, 2013 01:54 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at March 14, 2013 01:56 PM (Qxe/p)
So basically you've come in here to haughtily give us all the Counsel Of Despair: "don't bother trying to change things, we're all fucked. Here's a gun, end this tragic life now."
In that case, congratulations: you've made your stupidly fatalistic point. So what do you want to do now, stick around to sit up on your perch and tell us all how stupid we are for trying to think about how we can do things to save our country? That we should all just give up?
I think you'll find that we're not really interested in listening to your bullshit, in that case. Furthermore, once you've made your point once, what else is there to say? And why berate us for feeling different, if not to emphasize how morally/intellectually superior you must be for "realizing the truth" as opposed to all of us sad, lost souls?
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 01:57 PM (/Rmj0)
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (VjL9S)
Sound familiar? It should; you've seen it a thousand times on television.
Posted by: soothsayer at March 14, 2013 05:45 PM (KeJAW)
Kinda like The View but making the low info voter think a little bit more.
Posted by: GOP at March 14, 2013 01:58 PM (mETGQ)
Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 14, 2013 02:02 PM (8ZskC)
We don't have the power or numbers to persuade anymore, that the point. I'm sure the are literally hundreds of thousands of people a hell of a lot more conservative then you and I living in European nations but they don't spend every moment fantasing they're just one election away from changing anything. Maybe it's because it feels like conservatism fell out of favor here very quickly that people can't accept it, but it really has been happening over the past half decade.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 02:03 PM (7Nq2G)
Fine. I hope you've enjoyed your time on this site then. Be sure to leave some food and water out for the dog when you turn the car engine on in your garage, BTW.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 14, 2013 02:04 PM (/Rmj0)
"This is a hobbyhorse of mine. The left never brands itself as the Left or Liberal, does it? No, they brand themselves for everyone. We need to start doing that."
Hm.
No argument as to inclusion and coalitions making a larger impact than various factions' individual and uncoordinated efforts.
But then, every time you assign a tinfoil hat, offended by a conservative of a more [fill in the blank] streak than you'd rather defend, you've killed your hobbyhorse. Again.
As the Leftists brutally charge full steam ahead, have they coded lefty grassroots factions from within strung by uniforms like tinfoil hats and defeatist labels?
Posted by: William Wallace at March 14, 2013 02:05 PM (MhA4j)
You have to have a name that doesn't sound too appealing to the Left, else they will "flash mob" you out of the group.
The name has to sound neutral, with ideals that the Left claims to have but is really uncomfortable with actually adopting.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 14, 2013 02:06 PM (e8kgV)
I'm not living in despair, I know exactly what kind of country I live in and make the best of it. It's those that live in some fantasy world where they think conservatism is just in a slump that living in desperation.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 02:07 PM (7Nq2G)
Gee Jeff B., you're never going to pass yourself off as an intellectual with that horseshit. You better start working on faking a better argument then that.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 14, 2013 02:10 PM (7Nq2G)
Posted by: 'Ette in training at March 14, 2013 02:22 PM (zvxqj)
Posted by: Ken in NH at March 14, 2013 02:29 PM (N9thc)
Posted by: BigBoy at March 14, 2013 03:38 PM (EgHYq)
Posted by: JewishOdysseus at March 14, 2013 04:02 PM (FWwQD)
Posted by: Becky at March 14, 2013 07:49 PM (Xqyhu)
This is exactly what I have been arguing with conservative friends about. They think we can just preach our principles more robustly next election cycle and the people will listen. That isn't going to happen. You don't educate brainwashed people. We can turn this around but we have to take our culture back through the media and pop culture and that will take a couple generations of subversive activity like community organizing. That is how liberals took this country. That is how we will take it back. Like it or not, the majority of the electorate are sheep.
......we won't need to feel guilty about it because at least what we will be telling our youth is honest
.
Posted by: Trapperguy at March 14, 2013 09:07 PM (HP4bk)
We, as CONSERVATIVES, hail from a time and place where you first declared publicly who you are and what you stand for. Then you make your case and as part of your pitch you solicit support and try to indentify new people who might be interested in learning more.
They, the progs, lead with the promises and snake oil selling in the belief that once they have you on the benefit I.V., you will vote and march and do as they want you to do. At least you won't go running off to the other side. Equally important, we now have to approach you FROM THE OUTSIDE!
I agree, they've taken over the default position with the people by and large. However, I don't want just anyone joining the fray. Only 13% of the voting public actually voted in the last general. L'il barry's winning spread was less than 3% of that. Can you spell voter fraud? Yes, yes you can.
My stance today is we have a moral imperative to help the 4 million that stayed home get to a poll and begin to turn the tide in OUR COUNTRY.
Posted by: Blacksmith8 at March 15, 2013 02:33 AM (Yzu6e)
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 15, 2013 07:55 PM (g5wi5)
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I proposed the League of All Good Things last thread. My work is done.
Posted by: Warden at March 14, 2013 12:57 PM (HzhBE)