1 You want a slogan? How about: Kiss Our Capitalist Ass, Ruskies!

2 Just skimmed it, but I don't see a 'Middle Class' in there.

3 I explained before how conservatism is a hard sell. "Change" and "progress" is a lot easier to peddle than the "same old shit," even if it's true that the same old shit is the better way.

4 I think our elections have hinged on nothing but the personalities and "looks" of the candidates since the advent of TV.  The American voting public  has two large constituencies, those who vote the Party and those who vote for who "impresses" them for what ever reason.



The Republicans have insisted on running lack-luster moderates in almost every election since Reagan.  The only reason Bush won was because Gore was a bigger boring asshole and Sept 11 after that.



If they don't change soon they will be history. And no "slogan" can prevent that.

5 The GOP leadership and Establishment-types need to stop telling the conservatives to "shut up and color." It's odd, and by odd I mean fucking outrageous, that conservatives are told to hold their nose and vote for RINOs, when the opposite is never offered, let alone expected.

6 Seriously, why would anyone not a conservative want conservatism? It offers absolutely nothing to a person. It only promises to take away things from people's daily lives.

7 How does Obamacare get stopped when El Presidente has a veto?

8 The problem is that Republican priorities--low taxes, less spending, less regulations--are not relevant to the problems the American people face. Republicans have nothing to say about mass unemployment, huge trade deficits, and high health care costs. So why would anyone listen to them?

9 You have to destroy the Republican party in order to save it.

10 >>>Seriously, why would anyone not a conservative want conservatism? It offers absolutely nothing to a person. It only promises to take away things from people's daily lives.

right, it promises to take away limitations on freedom. Who'd want that?

11 "Optimism is a kind of a dumb thing."

Which is why we founded a country built on the principles of protecting individuals from power-hungry charlatans who promise such things in exchange for liberty.

Right now you need a party who believes that too.

12

I posted this last night, but it bears repeating:

 If my account of our moral condition is correct [one characterized by moral incoherence and unsettlable moral disputes in the modern world], we ought to conclude that for some time now we too have reached that turning point. What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual and moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us. And if the tradition of the virtues was able to survive the horrors of the last dark ages, we are not entirely without grounds for hope. This time however the barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time. And it is our lack of consciousness of this that constitutes part of our predicament. We are waiting not for a Godot, but for another—doubtless very different—St. Benedict.”

- Alasdair MacIntyre

 

Yeah, we're there.

13

My slogan;

 

What difference does it make? 

14 But you have to actually leave that possibility open. If you slam tight every door in every plausible pathway to hope, people just start giving up.

Hence Let It Burn, or as I have been hearing recently, It Must Burn.

15

This sentence made my brain hurt. And oddly, I understood it.

"I also think that idealism -- and its frequent dance partner, Optimism -- is, as stupid as it is, absolutely essential for a winning electoral coalition."

16 The moronic GOP leadership seems to believe that if they aggressively do what they were elected to do, aggressively argue and seek to implement a vision based on core American values and conservative principles, they will be repeatedly ravaged by the lamestream media.

They also seem to believe that if they are nice to the lamestream media, and adopt a progressive-lite agenda and vision that still expands government and is based on social justice, the media will be nice and fair to them.

What these idiots don't understand and didn't learn at all in either the 2010 or 2012 election season is that when it comes down to elections - the lamestream media will lie and shill for the progressives and castigate conservatives.  No matter what they do, short of changing parties, GOP and conservative candidates will be the primary targets for defeat at the ballot box.

Furthermore, if these idiots aren't willing to stand for their principles, they don't have any principles. 

The American voter / taxpayer in the center and right is rapidly tiring of the feckless GOP leadership and 2014 could be a real unpleasant surprise for them.

17 The one thing liberals, moderates, and conservatives can agree on is that we all hate, loathe, and despise the GOP.

The Democrats try to be all things to everyone; the GOP tries to be nothing for nobody.

18

Methos @ 14 - It's gonna burn, nothing we can do to stop it. 

 

Just be prepared to survive and rebuild.

19 Without hope and optimism- what exactly do you have?

If you are bereft of those qualities, you have only despair. That;s what pessimism is. Despair cloaked in doubt and uncertainty.

Optimism is an existential human condition. It's actually a part of realism. It acknowledges the difficulty of endeavors, but seeks to overcome.

The problem or missing part is, partially, leadership. Good leadership provides a plan based on achievable goals and surrounded by principles.

The GOP has no principles they speak of consistently. They have anarchy and a fundamental lack of leadership skills which helps participants understand the limits of their optimism and facilate a compromise.

This, in my estimation, is worse than the feckless, imperial nonsense Obama offers because it crushes optimism.

So I believe the GOP's issues is not that it lacks a catchy theme or strategy.

It lacks sagacious, principled, strong leadership that can forge compromises out of the light of day and speak with one voice on the most important issues.

That's going to kill the party. Weak, feckless so-called "leaders" whose concerns have no basis in the desire of the people they lead.

20

was because Gore was a bigger boring asshole

 

That really wasn't very nice.

21 The problem is that Republican priorities--low taxes, less spending, less regulations--are not relevant to the problems the American people face.

Republicans have nothing to say about mass unemployment, huge trade deficits, and high health care costs. So why would anyone listen to them?

Posted by: KJC at September 12, 2013 02:10 PM (LmD/o)

You forgot the /sarc.

22

Political movements need an animating myth, a story that members tell themselves about themselves.  Obama was off the charts fantastic in that regard.

 

For a GOP 2.0, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is not a bad place to start.

 

the current myth of cagey obstructionism, quarter-loaves that you should be thankful for, and "it coulda been worse"...not so much.

23 I'm done clinging to the hope that the next hill is the hill to take a stand.  Boner and Co. have pulled the ol' Lucy football trick on us one too many times.

24 BBA @ 22 - How about "Gore had a really nice truck"?

25

>>How does Obamacare get stopped when El Presidente has a veto?

.

.Only one way, deny funding.  But as we have seen, that is not going to work with the current crop of marginal Conservatives in DC.

26 Optimism = skittle shitting unicorns

27 What I think they're failing to take into account is the effect that removing almost all Hope of actual Change will do to the morale of a party.
----

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

But, seriously, in the last thread someone argued on behalf of the wisdom of a certain co-blogger because that cob had predicted Romney's loss. Setting aside how impressive that prediction was given what we know about the mass delusion running through Team Romney, I think it misses a big point.

The problem is that after we lost last year, both the WH and the Senate, lots of fingers got pointed at why. And from what I've seen the vast majority of fingers were pointed at, first, the 47% "on the dole," but after that they've been pointed at the conservative "base." Normally, base seems to mean "socons" and Tea Partiers.

And what we've seen since then is money and effort spent to recruit Latinos, women, pot-smokers, and whoever else the GOP has deluded themselves into thinking they can get.

All while chastising "the base" for losing the election.

I honestly don't see how we get out of this.

28 So, in the midst of all their courageous votes, what do I get in an email? Krebs, this canÂ’t be right. Chairman Walden just emailed me a list of NRCC members for 2013, and I don't see your name. You've been one of the NRCCÂ’s most loyal supporters in the past so I know this must be a mistake. It's not too late to join our efforts to create jobs, stop reckless Washington spending, and repeal the President's train wreck of a health care law: nrcc.org/renew. Please don't wait another moment. Renew your 2013 NRCC membership today with a gift of $45. The "writer"? John-Boy Boehner.

29 Again, hope and optimism are key parts of the Survival Instinct. Without those, where is the Survival Instinct? Might as well pick a nice patch of sand and beach oneself and wait for the seagulls to start picking at the blubber. Exactly. But hey, Let It Burn is a great idea folks!

30 Somewhere along the way I heard the phrase "losing slowly is still losing" and that's shaped my thinking ever since. The GOP is all about managing decline and slightly slowing up the progressive transformation, rather than reversing a trend. Without that sense of change, why bother? Let it burn.

31 Fraud and an overwhelmingly hostile,and powerful,bureaucracy, almost half a country that pays no taxes.I don't think our problem is tactical.

32 I know a great many corporations paid a great deal of money for it, but huge hunks of the CFR must be changed burned.  Sorry we can't afford to give you a refund.

33 Shit. The only thing that would get me to vote for Hillary would be a promise to repeal Obamacare. And I sincerely meant that.

34 Whatever man, we still get paid.

35 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

36 Well, the choice is pretty clear:  K Street Republicans desperate for even more cash flowing in the Washington, DC pipeline, or - an Andrew Jackson-style repudiation of the Establishment, led by a Person with a finger on the pulse of the electorate.  That Lady Up North.

37 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood.

38

Ace believes the tea party is wrong on most things?   So, Ace, let's take a look at the Tea Party Movement Platform (well at least the one on the website that purports itself to be

 

1)  Eliminate Excess Taxes

2)  Eliminate the national debt

3)  Eliminate deficit spending

4)  Protect free markets

5)   Abide by the constitution

6)   Promote Civic Responsibility

7)  Reduce the size of the government

  Believe in the People

9)  Avoid the pitfalls of politics

10)   Maintain Local independence.

 

As a tea party supporter, I agree with all of them except for number 2 and 3.   I believe there are times to do deficit spending (for example during war), and I don't think that the national debt should be zero at all times for similar reasons.

 

The establishment GOP likely disagrees for the most part on 2 and 3, also 4 (as they want to protect their friends at the expense of free market), 7 (they just want to have the power over the biggest government they can get), 8, 9 and 10.

So then, Ace, I know your blog spent a good part of the presidential campaign trying to crush any notRomney Tea Party folks who disagreed with the establishment, I just want to know, are you just like the establishment GOP, disagreeing with most of what the Tea Party stands for, which of those 10 are you in disagreement with?

 

39 >>>Fraud and an overwhelmingly hostile,and powerful,bureaucracy, almost half a country that pays no taxes.I don't think our problem is tactical.

well of course it is if you're losing elections but still entertain notions about winning them.

40

Conservatism is a hard enough message to convince the masses  without conservatives  always having  dick  measuring  fights. 

 

 

41 Why would anyone not a leftist want leftism? They promise to put so many regulations in place that they take away your job (if you still have one after the past five years), control of your health care choices ,freedom of speech and your ability to start a small business.

42 "Change" and "progress" is a lot easier to peddle than the "same old shit," even if it's true that the same old shit is the better way.

Ahh, but conservatism hasn't been the "same old shit" for 50+ years.

The Left has won, completely.  They control everything, to within a small margin of error.  Conservatives are the radical outsiders now, as Breitbart (PBUH) liked to explain.

So, in fact, it's possible to pitch conservatism as change and progress.  I don't expect the GOP to do so, but I live to be surprised.

43 Methos @ 14 - It's gonna burn, nothing we can do to stop it.

Just be prepared to survive and rebuild.

Posted by: butch at September 12, 2013 02:13 PM (0APJ3)

I'm agreeing with both you and ace. There is little interest in the GOP to even consider the hard choices that would hasten the days of consequences making them less severe than the "we've done everything we can to put this off and now no one has any influence for how this shit breaks" path we are currently on.

44 >>>Ace believes the tea party is wrong on most things?

reading is a lost skill

anger is the new reading

45 Spot on, Ace. But I'll add that the GOP hasn't exactly shown its immense prowess at strategic thinking either, so that's not an advantage over the Tea Party. The GOP is making a big mistake. They think their base is like the African-American community. That they can screw their base over and over again and openly show contempt toward them (as Obama has done with the AA community), and the base will keep coming back for more. But we're not like that. We don't believe they are our betters. We don't believe we are obligated to support them just because they have R's after their name. They should be trying to woo us, those of us that are actually inclined to support them, instead of wooing people who will take what the GOP can give them (e.g., amnesty) and laugh at them while they vote donk. I have no obligation to keep a Republican in office just because. Yes, I know that the worst Repub, generally speaking, is better than the best Dem. But if the Repub is just going to go there to be a bench warmer, what's the point? The Dems are fighters, as reprehensible and unpopular as a lot of their platforms are. The GOP operates from a standpoint of cowardice and thus will not attract any passion from anyone except themselves and others who benefit directly from them being in office. GOP, keep telling your base to shut up and keep quiet and let their betters take care of things. Keep assuring us by your actions you are not willing to fight for anything. See where that gets you. Sorry for the long rant, but this has been on my mind for a while, since the podcast that discussed defunding Obamacare.

46 The Progressives and Socialists are winning because they took over the Democrat Party. That's how you win in America. That's how you get your ideas implemented.

47

But one thing the Tea Party understands, on a gut level, is that there must be a sense of idealism and optimism about the future, and idea that things could change if we just make them change.

 

 

The GOP needs to understand why the Tea Party has the heart of the party, or its own heart will begin failing.

 

-------------------------

 

"Fuck.  THAT.  You're  just too  stupid to understand the magnificence of parliamentary maneuvering  and electoral  politics."

 

-  excerpted  from  EVERY Gabriel  Malor post  and JeffB.  comment.

 

Incidentally, JeffB. - this is why everyone thinks  you're an asshole.  Because you're an asshole.

48 Conservatism doesn't hold to the idea that things can't change for the better; it merely holds that it is unlikely that political changes of a radical nature can make things better and that certain things, such as human nature, are unalterable and any attempt to build or plan based on the idea that you will alter them will fail and is useless.

In an era where all such hope is placed on such human-nature-defying schemes, conservatism will seem like an ultimate killjoy.

However, conservative radicalism is possible; one form of this is the idea that we should permit tragedy to occur. That we should let people fight it out. That we should give people the freedom to become what they desire, but not be free from the consequences of their choices. That people are not equal beyond having a human nature and equalizing them does nothing but harm.

In an era where all of the Progressive and Liberal schemes, all vested in the ultimate belief in either true equality or complete mutability of persons, are failing, conservatism is no longer a hard sell, it is a hope that things might return to being human and sane again, and that human tragedy is better than divine farce.

49 i don't understand people who either don't read, or badly misread and don't bother re-reading when they realize their interpretation makes no sense, just to get to the joy of telling someone he's wrong.

doug, read more slowly and read more carefully and take note of who the subject is in a sentence.  Don't just skim and read the verbs.

Subjects are important.

50

A little ray of sunshine:

 

The Legislative District 26 Republican Party in Arizona has passed a formal rebuke of Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) for abdicating GOP principles in helping Senate Majority Leader Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) secure votes to approve several of President Barack Obama’s controversial nominees. “Senator John McCain unilaterally negotiated with the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to secure Republican votes necessary to pass a number of controversial Presidential nominees,”

51 Leftists didn't just shit on the Demcrats and say to hell with them. They said, from their perspective, we need better, more left-wing Democrats. And they worked on how to fund and elect them and how to purge those not left-wing enough.

52 I have hope America will change...

I for one favor the coming Aztlan overlords

53 Enter Hollowpoint, to tell Ace that he just doesn't "get it." Ideology just doesn't matter. Numbers, polling, and winning elections do though! Even if nothing actually changes!

54 Cone on, like you're gonna vote for Hillary.... Don't forget to donate!

55 Incidentally, JeffB. - this is why everyone thinks you're an asshole. Because you're an asshole. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 12, 2013 02:20 PM (CJjw5) Well, no, see you're wrong. It's not being an asshole. You're an asshole. You're pretty well liked. I'm an asshole. I'm, to a lesser extent, fairly well liked. The problem is being an unfunny asshole.

56 But I'll add that the GOP hasn't exactly shown its immense prowess at strategic thinking either, so that's not an advantage over the Tea Party. --------- ^This BTW, I'm not a socon, nor do I consider myself a member of the Tea Party. I'm just someone who has worked for, donated to, and/or voted for GOP candidates since she was 10 years old. And I don't recognize my party.

57 I would paraphrase the comment on velociraptors  from Jurassic Park.

People don't want to be fed. They want to work.

How's that GOP. Even the village idiot knows what that metaphor means.

But instead they want to shovel more money into the feeding trough.

They are idiots.

58 But I'll add that the GOP hasn't exactly shown its immense prowess at strategic thinking either, so that's not an advantage over the Tea Party.

Lee Atwater was the last really good GOP strategist.  I don't know who the next one is, but he/she had better show themselves soon.

59
The GOP needs to understand why the Tea Party has the heart of the party, or its own heart will begin failing.

----

The GOP needs to stop opposing Tea Party candidates.

60 Hey, I'm optimistic. Then again, I had three high balls before noon...

61 The GOP needs to understand why the Tea Party has the heart of the party, or its own heart will begin failing." Begin??? More like has.

62 53Flatbush Joe,

Uh...

no basically the left decided post 1994 and 2000 the YellowDogs were done.

IE they purged the DINOs as they said...and cut deals with the money donor corporate mules and schools.

63 Well, hell, Empire of Jeff beat me to it, although I went after Hollowpoint and he went after Jeff B. and Gabe, so I guess it works.

64 This was Romneys essential weakness: Reoublicans were suspicious that he was not at heart ideologically opposed to Obamacare. Ace is more in tune with Republicans than the RNC.

65 "...if your strategy does not include some sort of pathway by which people can continue to cling to the illusion of Hope, it's an unsound strategy."

And if your strategy does not include some set of pathway by which your candidate can win more votes than his opponent, it's an unsound strategy.

Like it or not, there aren't enough true believers to win national elections.  The candidate who wins is the candidate who can reach a mix of base and mushy middle.  And the more a candidate plays to the base, the less appeal they will have to those in the middle.

If the base insists on purity tests, then the base will continue to be disappointed come the first Wednesday in November.  The base has to accept that they have to give us chasing some of what they want in order to form alliances with those in the middle.  Better to settle for some than get nothing at all.

And Romney doesn't disprove the above.  Candidates still have to run competent campaigns. 

66 @12 Damn straight. I have no hope for the country if that hope is based inside the Beltway. It is only locally, where we can begin to change things, and then, only if we return to the Cardinal Virtues as our animating principle. Whether we can sell it or who will be left to buy it are different questions, which currently animate my melancholy.

67
   So stop letting DC control your actions.

   Concentrate on the state and local level--disregard DC, save those few who are worth the support.

    Give financial aid to the INDIVIDUAL candidate--and let the party know why.

   Given the present situation, this is the only way to effect ANY beneficial change, IMHO.

68 I'm a registered Democrat. In Philadelphia,there's always a Democrat on the primary ballot who I want less. There's barely one Republican on the primary ballot, and if there are two I probably want neither -- douchebag vs. turd sandwich. By the time Pennsylvania's presidential primary rolls around, the candidate is all but certain anyway. The GOP protects the Arlen Specters and John McCains. How, exactly, have they earned my membership, efforts or money?

69 Here's the political problem with the GOP: They can take all the polls they like, and compose all the spreadsheets they can, and can have expert consultants (Caveat: consultants are not experts in anything except consultation) type up white papers explaining all the reasons the base can't have what the base wishes to have. This is what some of us call gambling.

70 can we stop pouncing on people who aren't even here?

Jesus.

71 Eye of the Tiger, Baby!   Or not.

72 Remember 30+ years ago when Reagan said he didn't leave the Democrats, the Democrats left him? I never really grokked how that worked...until now.

73 57 Incidentally, JeffB. - this is why everyone thinks you're an asshole. Because you're an asshole. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 12, 2013 02:20 PM (CJjw5) Well, no, see you're wrong. It's not being an asshole. You're an asshole. You're pretty well liked. I'm an asshole. I'm, to a lesser extent, fairly well liked. The problem is being an unfunny asshole. Posted by: BCochran1981 at September 12, 2013 02:22 PM (da5Wo) ***************** No. The problem is hoovering Ace's ass so hard--that you make ace look stupid. That there --takes talent!

74 Seriously, why would anyone not a conservative want conservatism? It offers absolutely nothing to a person. It only promises to take away things from people's daily lives.

 

 

Posted by: Mark at September 12, 2013 02:09 PM (EPEUz)

 

------------------------

 

Well,  you're half right.  Conservatism doesn't offer you anything.  It simply  stands aside and lets you do your thing.

 

Liberalism  offers you everything,  so that you don't have to bestir  yourself to provide  for your sustenance.  And that is absolutely  an  easy sell for a large number of people.

 

So large  a number, in  fact,  that  you will  see President  Hillary Clinton.

 

 

75 Nice essay.

76 60 Ian S,

Atwater would already have destroyed Jugears...

and a few newsies....

we need plumbers and we need to use our corrupt members of the Federal Maze to play Joe the Plumber in reverse...

77 There is a strong cultural split within the Party. And the big money Repubs often are not culturally aligned with the majority of Republican voters. This creates a big problem. Democrats mostly have lined up behind their big money donors.

78 72 can we stop pouncing on people who aren't even here? Jesus. Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:24 PM (/IWYB) *********** He's still in the other thread. He'll catch up.

79 The problem is being an unfunny asshole.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at September 12, 2013 02:22 PM (da5Wo)

----

My Dad used to say there are two kinds of assholes.

Assholes who know they're assholes.

And assholes who have no earthly idea they are assholes.

The second one will give you fits.

80 Obama's "hope and change" slogan was simple, but it worked.

I will say in retrospect, it didn't help to have 2 of the worst candidates and campaigns against him in the modern history of politics.

Now I'll go read the rest.

81 I don't really get the leaving the Party to fix it strategy. I assume some of the people who got fed up and quit live in States that won't allow them to vote in Primaries.

82 >>>
The problem is hoovering Ace's ass so hard--that you make ace look stupid.

please stop with the endless shit-talk

this isn't debate, it's playground abuse.

83 Posted by: Y-not

Given that I was the one to whom you refer, I will also offer up my other comment from the last thread as I believe it partially goes to addressing the 2nd half of your statement.


Here's my theory why. Party Repubs don't want your conservative ass. This is also why they are all up in it vying for illegal aliens via amnesty. They want to horn in on their natural big government position which is the shared ground of the Dems. Then the Repubs can be like current Dems as the Dems are clearly looking to become the Marxist party.

84 The GOP is establishment and has power and therefore concludes that it understands strategy. To some extent it might understand the strategy of how to get in office.

It's like the game of chess you play where you are only able to get your enemy's pieces by giving up a piece of slightly greater value. You comfort yourself in saying, "Oh, but I'm eliminating useful pieces of his!"

The GOP is essentially this; a second rate chess player who thinks he is hot stuff because he doesn't lose horribly against a master.

That's how they define 'strategy'.

85 Just be prepared to survive and rebuild. Much easier said than done, I'm afraid.

86 I can tell you that President Michael Jackson did not get elected on his merits, but you won't believe me.
Some of the reasons you won't believe me are some of the same ones that got got President Michael Jackson elected for reasons other than his merits.
If you want to ensure non-Dem.-Commie majorities forever, all you really need to do is true the vote.








JFK beat Nixon in Chicago's graveyards.

87 "So large a number, in fact, that you will see President Hillary Clinton."

No, we won't.

88 The law must be reestablished.Without law everything else is worthless.The goverenment must be brought back under the law.A start is to take away there money.It's going to have to be done or else just continue on doing what we're doing until it explodes.That's a plan of sorts.

89 But hey, Let It Burn is a great idea folks! You misunderstand "Let it Burn" (or: better: "Burn it down."). Or you pretend to. Ace also misunderstands (partially) the nature of Optimism. Very few people are "Optimistic" about their own lives in general. We all know that life sucks, and you work hard, and you get less reward than you think you deserve, and on and on. People are optimistic about the future- that is, future generations. They're optimistic that "If I sacrifice, my kids can have a better life." They're optimistic that, "If I accept this burden now, down the road it will never burden anyone else." The Prog/Commies seek to shortcut that by saying, "What? Sacrifice? No, my friend, you can have the reward *now*! And we'll make sure it's around for your kids, too!" And who doesn't want that? LiB/BiD are about that far-reaching optimism. They are about the Hope for future generations, and the acknowledgement that a burning is coming. We can accept it and Hope that our children (or our grandchildren) don't have to deal with it, or we can continue to delay it and foist that sacrifice on our descendents. You already know which one I prefer.

90 We are the stupid party. Our "leaders" are complete imbeciles. Michael Steele as chairman anyone? Romney's convention practically ignoring the economy? GOP establishment demanding amnesty which will destroy their own party? The problem is that the party is so identified with stupidity that all the intelligent elitists become Democrats by default.

91 Anger is ultimately not a motivator. I suppose the GOP hasn't learned that yet after two elections of a strategy which tells us how bad everyone else is, as they stink up the place.

The one thing people hate more than the president is still Congress. They even like root canal more than Congress.

But you go, GOP. Keep ridin' the hate as a strategy and trying to attract voters who wouldn't vote for you threatened to lite their dicks on fire.

People show up to vote when there is a credible effort to get their support. When the ideas and articulation motivate them.

92 72 can we stop pouncing on people who aren't even here? ...hic!

93 can we stop pouncing on people who aren't even here? Jesus. ------- They're here. At least two of them were here just a little bit ago. They're big boys who fancy themselves as, at all times, the smartest men in the room. I'd assume they could handle a little pouncing.

94 91 Allen G,

the guys mocking letting nature take its course are of course just pissed we don't blindly follow Operation Just the Tip Swaersies and let them get their graft on

95 84 >>> The problem is hoovering Ace's ass so hard--that you make ace look stupid. please stop with the endless shit-talk this isn't debate, it's playground abuse. Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:25 PM (/IWYB) ********* All right--all right. He drives me nuts. He's intelligent. He's funny. But he alienates everyone so much--that he ends up being a uniter. So...... I'm out.

96 As we say in the Biz-business, "Hope is not a strategy"

97 Yeah, nobody wants to join the Let It Burn Party. Mainly because it's a terrible, evil idea.

98 The GOP leadership and Establishment-types need to stop telling the conservatives to "shut up and color."

That's a deal, provided the conservative base decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys that publicly engage in masturbatory fantasies and idealistic poo-flinging.

When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored.

99

can we stop pouncing on people who aren't even here?

 

-------------------------------

 

Well, I've  posited my rebuttals to their arguments  and asked for clarifications, but all I get is fucking snobbery thrown back in my face.

 

I love you like a mirror, Fake Internet Friends.

100 You really think the Tea Party is wrong about most things? Jeebus. No wonder you kept Rah-Rahing for the GOP for so long.

101 Everybody's goin' nowhere slowly They're only fighting for the chance to be last There's nothin' wrong with goin' nowhere, baby But we should be goin' nowhere fast

102 So large a number, in fact, that you will see President Hillary Clinton.

See, that, I doubt.  If the rumors hold up and Elizabeth Warren throws herself into the Dem primary, I think she'd beat Hillary because Warren is a near-perfect specimen of the modern DNC base.  And she'd be very very defeatable in the general - you could probably run Romney again and win.

103
THEORY: Loose Change 9/11 = Hope and Change without the overt conspiracy theories.

Barack Obama's campaign was a Ron Paul styled political book tour that grew until he ended taking the Democrat nomination. So he hired Hilary Clinton to be the "power behind the throne" like Pepin the Short. Now that she stepped down, he hired the failed candidate, John Kerry, to be the power broker in Washington while he sticks to enjoying the royal treatment.

104 Ace believes the tea party is wrong on most things? Really? Go read again. Ace's statement was that the GOP believes the Tea Party is wrong on most things.

105 Of course, the First 'Let It Burn' guy was Carlyle

And I quote... (Wagner Quoting Carlyle)...

THOMAS CARLYLE, in his History of Frederick the Great, characterises the outbreak of the French Revolution as the First Act of the "Spontaneous Combustion" of a nation "sunk into torpor, abeyance, and dry-rot," and admonishes his readers in the following words:—

"There is the next mile-stone for you, in the History of Mankind! That universal Burning-up, as in hell-fire, of Human Shams. The oath of Twenty-five Million men, which has since become that of all men whatsoever, 'Rather than live longer under lies, we will die!'—that is the New Act in World-History. New Act,—or, we may call it New Part; Drama of World-History, Part Third. If Part Second was 1800 years ago, this I reckon will be Part Third. This is the truly celestial-infernal Event: the strangest we have seen for a thousand years. Celestial in the one part; in the other, infernal. For it is withal the breaking-out of universal mankind into Anarchy, into the faith and practice of No-Government,—that is to say (if you will be candid), into unappeasable revolt against Sham-Governors and Sham-Teachers,—which I do charitably define to be a Search, most unconscious, yet in deadly earnest, for true Governors and Teachers. . . . . When the Spontaneous Combustion breaks out; and, many-coloured, with loud noises, envelopes the whole world in anarchic flame for long hundreds of years: then has the Event come; there is the thing for all [24] men to mark, and to study and scrutinise as the strangest thing they ever saw. Centuries of it yet lying ahead of us; several sad Centuries, sordidly tumultuous, and good for little! Say Two Centuries yet,—say even Ten of such a process: before the Old is completely burnt out, and the New in any state of sightliness? Millennium of Anarchies;—abridge it, spend your heart's-blood upon abridging it, ye Heroic Wise that are to come!"

106 @88 And if you want to send some of those creatures from the 111th, 112th, and 113th Congresses to their luxury high-rise condos in Shanghai, whence they'll watch the U.S. news on Al-jazeera and recall fondly the oligarchy they used to have, true the vote and only run on the U.S. Constitution.








Bring it on, h8trs. The DFL here in MN just called saying they've got a pair of those tiny hirsute hermaphrodites I fancy, and they're buying me popcorn.

107 >>>You really think the Tea Party is wrong about most things?

another genius who can't spot the Subject in a sentence

108 That's a deal, provided the conservative base decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys that publicly engage in masturbatory fantasies and idealistic poo-flinging. When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored. Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 12, 2013 02:28 PM (SY2Kh) ---------------- So in other words.... "we'll stop telling you to shut up and color when you shut up and color." The Establishment RINOs aren't the solution. They are the problem.

109 >>>Really? Go read again. Ace's statement was that the GOP believes the Tea Party is wrong on most things

nah why should he? 

being angry is better than being smart

110

>>>Again, hope and optimism are key parts of the Survival Instinct. Without those, where is the Survival Instinct? Might as well pick a nice patch of sand and beach oneself and wait for the seagulls to start picking at the blubber.

 

Stretch out and wait

Stretch out and wait

Let your puny body, lie down, lie down

111

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 12, 2013 02:29 PM (CJjw5)

 

Trust me, you don't want that, you have no idea how I love my mirror .

112 The social causes promoted on the left -- legal pot, gay marriage, more abortions, more affirmative action racist discrimination -- attract both the grass roots activists and the big money on the Left. On the right there is more of a split.

113 I think this is where some of the anger is coming from: The GOP is not even permitting its True Believers to believe. It's not even leaving them the illusion of hope. Ouch. You win, Ace, for the most depressing statement of the day. This makes me worry about you. Letting your mind go there. Fight out of it.

114 That's a deal, provided the conservative base decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys that publicly engage in masturbatory fantasies and idealistic poo-flinging. Okay, I'll pretend to bite. Fine- what victories *can* we win? Name 3.

115 When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored. -------- Those impossible things! Like deciding to fight a battle in which the public actually supports you, Obamacare! May not win EVERYTHING. May not even win most of it. But they can win SOMETHING, and in doing so, will have the public's backing. IMPOSSIBLE THOUGH!

116 If the base insists on purity tests, then the base will continue to be disappointed come the first Wednesday in November. The base has to accept that they have to give us chasing some of what they want in order to form alliances with those in the middle. Better to settle for some than get nothing at all.

And Romney doesn't disprove the above. Candidates still have to run competent campaigns.

Posted by: steve

It's not about purity, so just drop it. It's entirely about offering something that opposes the Dem-socialists. If you're not going to distinguish your policies from those of the opposition you have nothing to offer the base, the independents, and the potential Reagan democrats.

Romney embodied this problem quite thoroughly; his attempt to differ from Obama made no impression on the electorate. He was not Obama's foil.

If the entire plan of the establishment crew revolves around 'winning,' and they don't, their opinions are less than worthless.

Quiet frankly after losing two in a row the centrists have earned the right to shut the fuck up while someone else drives.

117 111 Ace,

Well nouns, pronouns, and subject predicate interaction are tough concepts to the linguistically impaired Ace...

Like I often say of my cryptic gibberish...it is well written if not well grammarized.

118 Is this where the 'Assholes Anonymous' meeting is being held?

119 The crisis is coming,sooner or later.It can only be put off so long.Defund the government,cause a crisis,focus minds.It's not a partisan thing anymore,it's about the survival of the USA as a going concern.Or,just wait until the crisis comes on it's own.

120 The GOP needs to stop opposing Tea Party candidates.

Then the Tea Party needs to stop putting up shitty candidates.  They've admitted doing as much, so that's a start.

There's no such thing as a noble loss when it comes to handing the Dems a seat that should've been winnable.

121 >>>When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored.

how is it infeasible to press for the delay of a law that the public wants outright repealed?

Riddle me this: boehner's going to demand cuts in spending for the debt ceiling -- and those cuts are unpopular -- but he won't demand stopping spending on ObaamCare, a cut which actually is popular?

What to you is "feasible"?  If we're pretending we're going to insist on cuts, why not pretend to insist on cuts to ObamaCare?

122

I believe the GOP thinks they  (the Tea Party)  are wrong about most things, especially strategy.

 

No doubt.  But here's the thing: the GOP acts as if the very fact of their being in government places them in a superior position.  How many times have you heard one of the national spokesholes or their consultants say, "well, things aren't as simple as that (you sister-humping rube), chuckle, chuckle?"  Neither John Boehner nor Hairy Reid nor Nasty Pelosi have any more native intelligence than I do.  But they see me - when I demand they follow the Constitution, balance the budget and protect the borders -  as a simpleminded stooge who doesn't understand the sheer complexity, the fourth-dimensional challenge of governing.

 

The GOP lost me because they're spineless Vichy shitweasels.  But they also lost me because they would rather die than soil their hands sitting over a cup of coffee with the likes of me for anything other than a grip and grin.

 

The GOP needs to die.

123

Conservatives / Republican politicians have been at the forefront of  positive changes to the 2nd amendment .   The map of carry states has been posted here before.  Conservatives / Republicans have carried on the fight regard to abortion and has made in roads in slowing that trainwreck.   Conservatives / Republicans continue to lead the way for less taxes and will be the one's who finally push reform ( okay that might be a pipe dream) .    Conservatives / Republican politicians are still the one's fighting for valid immigration reform (if they weren't amnesty would have already been a done deal.) There are many other more wonkish issues that Republicans have passed.  

 

They are far from perfect and need to be prodded , but prodded  does not mean demonized.  

 

And I realize that social issues are not  at the top of ace's list. 

 

  

 

 

124 #112

In other words, the Citizens are children now and it's not just the Dems who feel this way.

Is it any wonder why we don't go out and vote?

It's a testament to our actual maturity that it's safe for these people to come home on the weekend to their home states. If we truly were as childish as they (and Hollowpoint) suggest, there would be plenty of dead senators and reps by now.

125

The GOP is analogous to the Church of England:

 

There are some good people in the organization trying to do the right thing hampered by a leadership does not seem to really believe the message.

126 Ace, You touch on the central nervious system of every successful conservative campaign: One must unequivocally stand for SOMETHING and be consistent about it on a core set of issues. If the GOP cannot get itself orientated to hammer the disastrous aspects of Obamacare and then offer solutions, then they do not deserve support. The same thing goes for the sorry state of congressional behavior on spending, defense, and the general idiocy that this administration exhibits on a daily if not hourly basis. QUIT BEING AFRAID OF BEING CALLED NAMES AND STAND FOR SOMETHING.

127 100 Yeah, nobody wants to join the Let It Burn Party. Mainly because it's a terrible, evil idea.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:28 PM (ZPrif

 

 

I think your spot on with the swing vote and undecided but the 'low information' voters may bite on it if you put it too a Rap Beat...

128 The government is already lying.The government is already vbreaking the law.What more do we need?Do the States have any power to clean up this mess?Does anyone?

129 Most on the right seem to think that government is a "necessary evil" that ought to be generally non-intrusive, perform competently a couple of tasks that are best handled collectively, and generally leave people alone.

Most on the left seem to think that government is the fundamental tool for implementing societal change, that it needs to be used aggressively, comprehensively, and for all and every manner of real and perceived societal need.

So, you tell me - who is more likely to attract "the best and the brightest" to the cause of serving in government? And especially in the "business" of serving in government?

Point being - the right is at a constant structural disadvantage the instant it becomes electorally viable to rob from Peter to pay Paul - and that's been the electoral state of play in the USA since, at least, Hoover.

Hence, let it burn.

130 being angry is better than being smart Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:31 PM (/IWYB) ------------------ Being pretty is better than both of those. I tell my daughters that every time they ask me questions about their homework.

131 Except McCain.   Have at him. 

132 What exactly am I supposed to believe these GOP pussies are going to do assuming they can convince anyone to give them the Senate, too?

Don't matter how big your stick is if you are a wimp.

133

I think the Democrats of 2000 and 2004 were exactly in the same place, completely bereft of the rallying cry and it showed.  Obama became their inspiration, and that energy and enthusiasm carried them forward.

 

Will the Republicans find an inspiring candidate?  Possibly, although the likliehood is both parties will find candidates that are tolerable to run in 2016.*

 

*Inspiring candidates like a Reagan or an Obama are not the norm.

134

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 02:32 PM (/PCJa)

 

Heh, I'll confess, I can't even name 1.

I can name several we *should* be able to win, but we won't:

Corporate Tax restructuring,

Personal tax restructuring

Hell even government spending is theoretically winnable (but no one wants their own ox gored, so we always fuck up.)

135 124 Hollowpoint,

You know what HP...like Gus said in Lonesome Dove...

"the GOP is the kind of party I am gonna enjoy hanging"

136 Then the Tea Party needs to stop putting up shitty candidates. They've admitted doing as much, so that's a start. ------------ Romney. When will you admit it?

137 "The problem is that Republican priorities--low taxes, less spending, less regulations--are not relevant to the problems the American people face. " No, the problem is that they are only relevant to taxpayers, of which there are fewer every day, than to the multinational corporations that fund both parties.

138 EoJ,

I really liked your "backhair/KSM" slam on Sydney Leathers yesterday.

139 #125

Because the Establishment narrative is that Socialized Medicine Wins Votes and Is Popular, regardless of polling. The Narrative always trumps polls, and polls are generally only utilized if

1. The Narrative does not provide any guidance
2. The Narrative needs to be shown to be popular for some reason

140 Left-wingers have been pushing pot legalization for how many decades? And, until very recently, they were just laughed at and mocked and called crazy, stupid hippies and druggies. But the idealism motivated during the decades of being a fringe movement with no chance of winning. But now they are winning. Same thing with gay marriage.

141

>>>reading is a lost skill

>>anger is the new reading

 

You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you DIE

 

wait whut

142 It's not enough to be pretty, they should be thin, too.  

143 The two politically exploitable emotions are hope and fear.  In 2008 Obama ran on hope for unicorns.  In 2012 Obama ran on fear the dog torturing women binder.  Both McCain and Romney explicitly did not run on fear of Obama, a very real and powerful motive to vote for them, and instead ran on hope for ... OK, I give up.

Running on hope is easier for Democrats because they live in Big Rock Candy Mountain land.  Republicans feel compelled to tell the truth and therefore will not promise that capitalism will buy everybody silk underwear and a flying car.   

144 Fine- what victories *can* we win? Name 3.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 02:32 PM (/PCJa)

-----

***raises hand***

ooo oooo oooooo...... Mr Kotter!!!

1.  Immigration Reform

2.  Sensible Gun Control

3.  ummmm..... ah..... errrrr....  ummm....... uhhhhh......   lemme get back with you on #three

145 Yeah, look what happened in Colorado when people stood for something. Why can't we get rid of the GOP leadership? Why are these cowards in charge? What victories have they won for us? How have they rolled back statism and promoted freedom?

146 this is interesting

somebody punch somebody

147 No one ever reads the back of the lotto tickets that calculate the odds, only the front that tells you how much youcould win

148

Is this where the 'Assholes Anonymous' meeting is being held?

 

Blow me.

149 Then the Tea Party needs to stop putting up shitty candidates. They've admitted doing as much, so that's a start. ----------- Yep, because Macaca was a much better candidate in VA than Jamie Radtke. Really ran roughshod over Tim Kaine.

150

Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:35 PM (/IWYB)

 

He has a nice truck as well?

151 There's no such thing as a noble loss when it comes to handing the Dems a seat that should've been winnable.

Are you stupid or just dense?

How much difference would, say, Mike Castle have made over the generic dickbag that actually won the election?  I'm going to go with "0".

152 It upsets me when ace attacks the Tea Party.

153 So where is the future? Can we agree that Ted Cruz is an extremely promising future* standard-bearer? He has the "right" credentials, is well-spoken, and charismatic. If so, why haven't I seen any evidence of the GOP grooming him for a Bright Future as they did with Barack Obama? Or maybe it's happened and I haven't seen it. *If not for 2016, perhaps for a later date.

154 I'll be optimistic when I finally get my flying car.

A chicken in every pot, and a flying car in every garage!

155 Structural advantage is key. Democrats don't require inspiring candidates to win in most blue states.

156

I think it's all going to burn.  Pessimism?   Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

I  really do think the nation is going to split some time or another  into political  or racial  enclaves.  We used to call them states.  But after the chaos (oh, yes.   There will be  more chaos than we can now imagine) I don't know what we'll call them.   It's  unavoidable now.  Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will eventually happen.   

157

LIP SERVICE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLPoukOg0lk

158 I don't really get the leaving the Party to fix it strategy. I assume some of the people who got fed up and quit live in States that won't allow them to vote in Primaries.

I think the answer lies in believing it is unfixable.  I and many other people were shut out by "party rules" that totally prevented a majority from challenging RINOes.

So I was done with them.

159 Seriously, why would anyone not a conservative want conservatism? It offers absolutely nothing to a person. It only promises to take away things from people's daily lives. Posted by: Mark at September 12, 2013 02:09 PM (EPEUz) Weird. It promises self-respect, dignity, productivity, and responsibility. What does it take away? The individual.

160 >>>Is idealism stupid? It is stupid. I frequently fulminate against idealism. I think it's silly.

This is kind of illogical on its face. Either we have achieved better standing in the past, in which case we have room to improve from where we are now, and therefore the concept of ideas to improve cannot be categorically invalidated, OR, we are better now than we have ever been, which means we have a history of going beyond past achievements, which in general means you can't categorically invalidate the idea we can be better yet... Unless you honestly believe, that we, right now, this second, have achieved the zenith of human potential then there is room for improvement. If we have any room at all to become better, that potential improvement, in whatever form it takes, is predicated on an idea of a better mankind. Idea hence idealism. If you don't have an idea that we can be any better than we are RIGHT THIS SECOND, and the only function we have in societal participation is slowing regression. If that's the case, and we *HAVE* in fact reached our zenith, Mankind's purpose, if it can be said to have one has run its course. There is no rational course of action beyond retreating and gathering as much as you can for yourself along the way by whatever means is accessible.

Hinged into all of this is Optimism. Which while irrational, allows irrational behavior. If we did not have the capability to be irrational then we will act rationally. And again that would be retreating and gathering as much as you can for yourself along the way by whatever means is accessible. Life and morality and living are basically one big complicated prisoners dilemma played over and over again by billions of people, where acting immorally constitutes defecting. Mankind plays and "wins" (finds the optimal solution) to this game every day because of our ability through faith and optimism to act in an irrational manner while playing the prisoners game of life. Rob a people of the ability to act irrationally and the death spiral of immorality in life is alarming in its swiftness in destroying a society.

In short, if you think Idealism is stupid, you are a light thinker who needs an excuse not to have ideas.

If you think optimism is stupid, that's fine, it likely (although not certainly) is, but that's some sh*t you need to keep under wraps because society desperately needs it to function and not send us all back to the stone age.

Other than that. Spot on ace. Spot on.

161 If they don't change soon they will be history. And no "slogan" can prevent that.
Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2013 02:08 PM (zZbNF)
How about "My dog's better than your dog?"

162 Then the Tea Party needs to stop putting up shitty candidates. They've admitted doing as much, so that's a start. ---- Of ffs, there are shitty candidates from the Establishment, too.

163 Again, go through who was running in 2008 and 2012 and tell me which one would have beat Obama under the situations presented In 2012 I think Mitt could have won, but he got very bad advice from a lot of people who are still mapping out the GOP's strategy.

164 I skipped all the earlier threads so I have no idea why everybody is so angry at each other.

165 Solutions require pain,pain that is coming in any case."LIB" isn't a desire to see it happen,it is resignation that it will happen,because no one is willing to make the hard choices necessary to keep it from happening on it's own.

166 "The problem is that Republican priorities--low taxes, less spending, less regulations--are not relevant to the problems the American people face. " Except that they are, you just have to speak to people in their own language. You talk to business owners about "fewer regulations." You talk to corporations (and the eeeevil rich) about lower taxes. You talk to "the middle class" about lower spending. But to the poor? You talk about that factory the next town over that closed. You talk about "white flight" and that people won't stay where it is disadvantageous for them to stay. You talk about government not being able to meet current obligations- and the need not to accept new ones.

167 >>>How much difference would, say, Mike Castle have made over the generic dickbag that actually won the election? I'm going to go with "0".

all gop senators including the squishes voted against ObamaCare

Castle would not have been part of that vote, but stop with the "no difference" line.  It's just an excuse for failure.

168 #145

Right, but we can't do that because we are supposed to lose and our ideas will never amount to anything.

Hollowpoint is starting to remind me of that scared pissant in your class who was popular enough to try to intimidate anyone he didn't like into failure.

A-hole. We'll show you who is a failure, you defeatist whelp.

169 Sock again. I give up.

170 If they don't change soon they will be history. And no "slogan" can prevent that. Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2013 02:08 PM (zZbNF) I think you are an optimist.

171 I'll be optimistic when I finally get my flying car.

I will be for 5 seconds until I realize that Obama voters also have them.  Then I'll start building a titanium dome over my house.

172 I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. But I think way too much emphasis is placed on stategery and not enough on facts. For example, incumbent presidents almost never lose. This has been even more true since the advent of TV. The only way an incumbent loses, as Carter did, is when the incumbent becomes so unpopular not even incumbency can carry them. Romney actually got more votes in deep red states than Bush in 2004. Where he lost was in the swing states. http://tinyurl.com/o9x8fbl This myth that the base didn't turn out for Romney is just that, a myth, and it needs to die. The idea that all people have to do is present conservative ideas and they will win is also a myth. If it was true, MA would be a red state. It isn't. If we want to win we need to start bringing more people on to the team. Demographics are working against our message whether people like hearing it or not.

173 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHiAZMKG5Q Hey GOP! How would you like to suck my balls?

174 I really liked your "backhair/KSM" slam on Sydney Leathers yesterday. Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:35 PM (/IWYB) ----------------- Thanks. I had another graf riffing on her "rich, lustrous pelt" but at the last second figured less is more and zapped it.

175 If you think GOP voters are depressed now wait until these tools pass #Amnesty Big Club, we ain't in it - George Carlin

176 79 There is a strong cultural split within the Party. And the big money Repubs often are not culturally aligned with the majority of Republican voters. This creates a big problem. Democrats mostly have lined up behind their big money donors. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:25 PM (ZPrif) That's what I see as well.

177 When the opposing political party cannot remotely begin to explain the economic slogans and positions it pushes, "H & C" goes a long way.

178 I think this sort of fatalism is becoming the problem, more than the problem.  It's hard to think that we'll win another election when the MSM and even right-leaning pundits keep saying we won't unless we do x, where x is whatever they always wanted to do anyway.  We'll all have to gay marry Hispanic abortion doctors or something, and then we'll win.

The flip side is this sad sack of shit President who can't get out of his own way, has really only succeeded in availing himself of the expertise of SEAL 6 and keeping the economy perpetually fucked. After 2012 I got the feeling that we were living in a mirror universe of 2004 - it just had the same feeling - Bush barely squeaked by for a second term, which was the beginning of the end for the GOP for the next few cycles, beginning with the slaughter that was 2006, SanFranGran as speaker, etc.  In retrospect it felt like we lost by winning in 2004 - if the economy continues at its current clip, will any Democrat be able to convince the electorate that he or she knows how to steward the economy?  Can they really run against Obama?  Against Congress? 

179 143 EoJ,

I really liked your "backhair/KSM" slam on Sydney Leathers yesterday.


Posted by: ace


What was it?

180 Christine O'Donnell didn't lose because she was a TrueCon. Well, she did, but that's not the main reason she lost.

She lost because she was a fucking dummy, which people attempted to warn people about, and were ignored, and people made up crap like "people will like her because she's 'one of them'" or something.

I suppose this is that "pathway to hope" thing I'm talking about.

But sometimes it's just fucking stupid.

181 #173

It's always possible for them to make a difference, though perhaps unlikely. If the Democrats can get people out to vote because 'one vote counts' amount millions, CERTAINLY it's not a stretch of the imagination to claim that one vote among 100 or 500 can make a difference.

182 >?A chicken in every pot, and a flying car in every garage!

Posted by: Fritz at September 12, 2013 02:37 PM (UzPAd)

and Free Weed

183

I left the GOP many years ago, when I realized their Actions did not follow either their rhetoric, or even written platform.

 

There is a large component of the GOP who are big Government types... who see Governmental Action as the way to solve everything... and sadly they have run the Washington GOP for a lot of years.

 

Compassionate Conservatism, and the entire NeoCon Foreign Policy, are just two examples.

 

Lets see.... EPA?  which is killing jobs?  created by Repubs.

ADA?  Repub...

DHS?  Repub...

Dept. of Education?  signed into law by Carter, but actually started operations after Reagan was in office...

 

I can go on and on... but the fact is that the Repubs have partnered with the Dems to grow the size and power of the Fed Government.

184 According to a link at Insty today, 60% of the country doesn't want more debt. A majority hates O-care. The Prez just embarrassed himself on the world stage and everybody knows it. Yet the GOP can't make a stand in this political environment? If not, they're traitors, too. LIB. It's going to anyway. Maybe my kids can start over.

185 "Change" and "progress" is a lot easier to peddle than the "same old shit," even if it's true that the same old shit is the better way. As Ian S said, conservatism is actually change now. Obamacare is a prime example: it takes the worst part of our health insurance/health care systems, and makes them required. Health care is too expensive because the patient isnÂ’t the one paying for it, their employer is? Keep their employer in the mix and add another level of indirection. ThereÂ’s little ability for people to choose what health insurance they want because of arcane rules about which state to buy in? Keep the state involved and add more arcane rules at the federal level about dealing with an exchange. ItÂ’s too expensive because patients canÂ’t see prices and canÂ’t really change them even if they could? Set prices at the federal level on the basis of who can lobby the best. ThatÂ’s sure to bring prices down. And so on. The biggest failure was in not providing the hope and change for conservatism well before 2008. ItÂ’s insane not providing hope and change now.

186 173 Ace,

Eh...Scoot Brown may have been bought if his later deference to the Donkey party was an indication.

I think Reid panicked.

187 What was it?


EoJ like shagging fat chicks.


*runs*

188 #188

Right, it's just that most GOP'ers are actually TOO LAZY to figure out what guys like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz did; how to balance speaking with tact and speaking with force.

189 Castle would not have been part of that vote, but stop with the "no difference" line. It's just an excuse for failure.

No, it's the fucking truth.  *no difference*.  Not one bit.  Another RINO squish as bad or worse than McCain.  He'd have been been used as a lever to beat the GOP with by the MFM and the Dems.

190

Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:39 PM (/IWYB)

All GOP senators could vote against it, it wasn't really a hard vote for them, they knew it was going to pass.

Just like if the Syria resolution had gone to the house we could be sure the squish dems would have voted to support Obama.

In effect, their vote didn't matter. The problem is on the margins, when the votes do matter, that's when we lose our squishes.

191 The only way an incumbent loses, as Carter did, is when the incumbent becomes so unpopular not even incumbency can carry them. ----------- Bush 1. You can win against an incumbent if you can carry a solid message.

192
   Screw this. I made what I thought was a sensible suggestion, and all y'all seem to want to do is nit pick each other.

   So pick apart what I wrote and show me where I am in error.

193 Romney actually got more votes in deep red states than Bush in 2004. Where he lost was in the swing states.

Which is why Romney's more frustrating than McCain.  I think everyone knew privately in their hearts that McCain was ultimately a novelty candidate, like Bob Dole with a crazier daughter.  If Romney had campaigned a bit harder in the direction of blue-collar voters he could've won Ohio and a few other swing states.

194 "You talk to business owners about "fewer regulations." You talk to corporations (and the eeeevil rich) about lower taxes. You talk to "the middle class" about lower spending."

They don't.  They can't.  They can't explain which regulations are bad, and why, and they can't explain lower spending in a way that doesn't sound like Marie Antoinette.  These are professional politicians, not competent people making their way through life.

195 I'll just repost my #415 in the other thread, as it's on-point here.  It's a real request for debate on this matter.  Please don't just dismiss it as "Oh look at that establishment suck-up" and actually address the point?

>>>Please explain how the fuck they are maneuvering to gain legislative
majorities by sitting on their asses and playing with themselves.

No, I'm sorry, this gets it precisely backwards. We always say -- because it's true! -- that a key mistake of the squishy liberal mindset is the sense that when something tragic happens in the real world then the government needs to act and act now because "hey, we need to do SOMETHING!" Regardless of whether or not that 'something' actually accomplishes jackshit, or may have blowback consequences that people are ignoring at the moment, etc...the impulse to act is overwhelming.

Well congratulations: you've proven that this impulse is a human one, and not limited exclusively to liberals. You're saying "the status quo is intolerable! We must act! Even if our actions accomplish nothing and are self-defeating and put us in a deeper hole than we already are! We will have the consolation of having acted!"

But it doesn't work that way. As the person counseling a radical action with seemingly catastrophic political consequences, it is incumbent upon YOU to explain to me why, unlike in the past and in violation of all common sense and polling (we made fun of the polls in September and October of 2012...and in November of 2012 found out that the polls were right and we were whistling past the graveyard), a government shutdown in order to accomplish a goal that everyone knows is impossible (defunding Obamacare) is in our best interests.

I'm not being facetious here, or trying to indulge in my typical withering arrogance/"JeffB-ness." Seriously: convince me. What is the endgame you seek here? We threaten to shut down the government unless Obamacare is defunded. Barack Obama say "fuck you, loser, this'll be just the shot in the arm my demoralized administration needs." We then shut down the government. Obama isn't going to agree to eliminate his one single legislative achievement of any consequence merely because the GOP is shutting down the gov't. Especially given how unpopular the last GOP shutdown was for the GOP.

Explain how it'll be different this time. And don't say "well this time Americans hate Obamacare!" Yes, and Americans hate the war in Syria but they wouldn't want the GOP to shut down the DOD either. "Shutting down the government" means something extremely hugely drastic in the minds of the American public and your protestations that "oh in reality it isn't such a big deal, important services would still function" is silly given the fact that it doesn't matter what you know, it matters what LIVs know and what the media tells them.

You think the GOP can shut down the government as a purely gestural move with no achievable goal in mind, AND simultaneously engage in a massive, national educational campaign about how "a government shutdown isn't really such a bad thing, actually" in the teeth of massive MSM resistance? And somehow come out ahead on this with the voters? This is a party that people around here regularly claim is too stupid to walk and breathe simultaneously, let alone pull off the single most improbably bravura political stunt in American political history.

196 I think the national GOP doesn't want to do a whole hell of a lot beyond keeping their jobs

keep that government gravy train rolling, boys

197 McCain's "strategist", Steve Schmidt, and Michael Steele, the goddamn head of the RNC, appear on MSNBC and stab R's in the back and buy into Dem smears. Gee, why aren't people jumping into the pit with these leaders?

198 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 02:26 PM (/PCJa) Ah, yes. I'm too stupid to understand. Thanks Allen, that's what I needed in my day.

199 90 The law must be reestablished.Without law everything else is worthless.The goverenment must be brought back under the law.A start is to take away there money.It's going to have to be done or else just continue on doing what we're doing until it explodes.That's a plan of sorts. Posted by: steevy at September 12, 2013 02:25 PM (9XBK2) What gives law moral imperative? "The use of force alone is but temporary. It may subdue for a moment; but it does not remove the necessity of subduing again: and a nation is not governed, which is perpetually to be conquered." ---Edmund Burke.

200 You guys do know the Democrats played plenty of tricks to keep out the radical campus Left as it started taking over their party over the last 40 years, right? It took the Obama-left decades to take over the Democrats. With many humiliating, seemingly devastating defeats. But they won in the end. Of course, the Libertarians have tried for decades to take over the Republican Party and they have only ever suffered humiliating defeat. Sometimes you struggle for decades and win. Usually, though, you probably struggle for decades and keep losing until you finally lose completely.

201 Personally, I more wary of RINOs more than of the Mescaline Left.
A non-trivial segment of RINOs are not insane.
When a mescalero de la izquierda sees a RINO when far, far beyond the precipice of unreason, the m. de la i. sees a benevolent teletubby. When he sees us Tea Partiers, he sees the jaguar god.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/n7zqugx

202

"Well, hell, Empire of Jeff beat me to it, although I went after Hollowpoint and he went after Jeff B. and Gabe, so I guess it works."

 

 

After all, what is a fire without a few heretics piled on top?

203 "The problem is that Republican priorities--low taxes, less spending, less regulations--are not relevant to the problems the American people face. " -------- NO, the problem is that they aren't sincere about it. A Republican pushed the lightbulb ban. Our nominee's Hill to Die On was to not raise taxes on the top earners, while he was simultaneously signaling being open to other sorts of revenue collection schemes that would hit the middle class. Republicans love ethanol subsidies and all sorts of government spending. Republicans like taxing and regulating and spending as much as the Dems do.

204 193 Stephen Price Blair,

Let it Burn *is* hope and change.

Basically the media's Potemkin building means we're not going to win with King Debate or Queen Procedure so we'll have to let Emperor Math do his thing....

buckle up and prepare for impact.

205 >>>
No, it's the fucking truth. *no difference*. Not one bit. Another RINO squish as bad or worse than McCain. He'd have been been used as a lever to beat the GOP with by the MFM and the Dems.

upon her being crushed at the polls the argument transformed from 'she can win" to "we knew she would lose but we meant to lose.'

206 Also there are 30 Republican governors.  The comments act like the GOP has lost everything. 

207 Lets not attack fat chicks, they need loving to.

208

Time to let the Republican Phoenix burn up and reform as the Tea Party. They decided this when they sacked all the Tea Party Chairmen. It's cut and rip from here on out.

209 #191

Yeah, once you figure out that both the Democrats and the Republicans are correct in their excoriation of their rivals, you can decide to become 'unaffiliated' without even a tinge of conscience.

210 A chicken in every pot, and a flying car in every garage!


Posted by: Fritz at September 12, 2013 02:37 PM (UzPAd)


and Free Weed

***

Weed will get you through a period of no job better than a job will get you through a period of no weed.

211 Okay, I'll pretend to bite.

Fine- what victories *can* we win? Name 3.


We've already won on gun control, the sequester and stopping the Senate amnesty bill, but in the future:

Provided the GOP plays it smart (and that means ignoring most of you), control of both the House and Senate in 2014 for starters.

Then and only then:

Reversing some of the spending hikes Obama pushed through.

Delay or weaken Obamacare before it becomes permanently entrenched.

Republican President in 2016 who takes advantage of the expanded Presidential powers newly minted by Obama (teaching the Dems that precedent is a bitch).

In the meantime, the best we can hope for is to limit the damage.  That's all the minority party can do.

212 > Republicans have nothing to say about mass unemployment, huge trade deficits, and high health care costs. So why would anyone listen to them?

Honestly, running against amnesty, against Obamacare, and against free trade with nations who exploit the welfare of their citizenry and the environment of their country is a winning strategy.  I'm all for free trade with Europe. China, not so much.

213 "How much difference would, say, Mike Castle have made over the generic dickbag that actually won the election? I'm going to go with "0"."

Concur. The K Street GOPsters are just sitting there, waiting for their turn at the wheel, a chance to cut their deals, squeeze cash on an industrial scale, find jobs for relatives, etc. while Main Street remains shuttered and the nation's workforce makes do with part-time jobs. Folks out in the country don't see Democrats and Republicans, they see an entrenched Ruling Class carving the flesh out of working people.

214 Wait a minute. Didn't the GOP ass rape the democrats in historic fashion in 2010? No doubt we're the stupid party, but so is the other one. They're a bunch of dumbshits just like our guys. So, it all works out in the end. We're governed by irredeemable morons no matter who's in charge.

215 Is this where the 'Assholes Anonymous' meeting is being held?

I'm just here for the donuts.

216 The idea that all people have to do is present conservative ideas and they will win is also a myth. If it was true, MA would be a red state. It isn't. There haven't really been any conservative candidates that I can recall in MA. MA is a demographics problem - people aren't going to vote for the party that takes away free shit and state jobs when over half the state gets free shit or state jobs.

217 In any case,corporations LOVE regulations that hurt their competitors.It's not about a level playing field anymoe.

218 Very Cool Official One World Trade Center Time Lapse video. 2004-2013 in 2 minutes! http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2013/09/official-one-world-trade-center-time.html

219 1,000x this! Like I said on one of the podcasts, the GOP seems to go out of its way to piss on the people who should be its most enthusiastic, active supporters. It's no wonder they increasingly have no confidence in the party's leadership. Oh, sure, they'll still vote GOP, but they won't phone bank, work polls, contribute (time or money) or talk up the party to their friends & neighbors. Or, you know, do all the little things it takes to get the votes at the margins that are necessary for electoral victory.

220 100 Yeah, nobody wants to join the Let It Burn Party. Mainly because it's a terrible, evil idea. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:28 PM (ZPrif) LIB = Those Who Do Not Vote = 40% of Americans

221 She lost because she was a fucking dummy, which people attempted to warn people about, and were ignored, and people made up crap like "people will like her because she's 'one of them'" or something. One of the great fallacies is that politicians are smart. They are a bell curve just like any other sampled group. We have to get over that idea. As far as the dream candidate thing...I'd settle for pure, old-fashioned chief executive competence and a move away from cults of personality.

222 Please don't just dismiss it as "Oh look at that establishment suck-up" and actually address the point? ---------- The point is you surrendered the battle before even fighting it, as evidenced by your rhetoric. "We" won't be shutting down the government...Obama would be refusing to sign a CR because Obamacare isn't bundled into it. That's why Ace's essay above hits the right notes...why should we have hope that the Establishment GOP will fight for first principles when they are surrendering before the debate is joined?

223

124 -

 

Apparently you're not listening, Hollowpoint.  People are saying they are done with the GOP.  Putting somebody with an R behind their name is not considered winning by many of us. 

 

Or do you think  it's just talk?  The GOP can screw us, and we won't really quit them? 

 

Test the theory, smartypants.  Go ahead. 

224 LiB/BiD are about that far-reaching optimism. They are about the Hope for future generations, and the acknowledgement that a burning is coming. We can accept it and Hope that our children (or our grandchildren) don't have to deal with it, or we can continue to delay it and foist that sacrifice on our descendents. You already know which one I prefer. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 02:26 PM (/PCJa) I see a reckoning coming. (Economic Gravity reasserts itself.) Better it should arrive while I can help my Children Fight than after I am no longer able to do so.

225 202 SFGoth,

Eh the shale/NG boom we're shitting on is "real" and simple and matters across the board.

Of course the media in bed with the Tech Company Rick Enviro nuts will demonize the GOP but a welfare mom who can't afford an I-Pad understands her ghas and heating bill...

but the GOP refuses to do the work of talking to the poor about improvement and thus we let Donkey buy them for peanuts.

226 fxerupper: "The GOP needs to stop opposing Tea Party candidates."

That would mean inviting actual reform and the reduction of centralized power. That will not happen. That is exactly against its interests.

The GOP probably hates the Democrat Party less than the Tea Party Caucus. Again, not hyperbole. Trent Lott, before he left, said that the GOP's first task was to co-opt the Tea Party insurgents. The GOP itself was not to change; the GOP was to absorb and control the up-n-comers so as to kill the baby in the crib. I have seen nothing different since Lott left to lobby.

Conservatives are an enemy to this GOP. It's the new pragmatism, you see.

227 232 Diogenes Lamp,

Correct...

better the crash happen when I am 41 than 81 so so long GOP....

thanks for not being part of the solution and making the rebuilding harder.

228 190 >?A chicken in every pot, and a flying car in every garage!

Posted by: Fritz at September 12, 2013 02:37 PM (UzPAd)

and Free Weed
Posted by: Jones

That would be "pot in every chicken".  First there was the Square Deal, then the New Deal, and now the Groovy Deal, because weed will get you through tough times without $ better than $ will get you through tough times without weed.

229 Bush 1. You can win against an incumbent if you can carry a solid message.

Posted by: Rich at September 12, 2013 02:42 PM (X3jCZ)

 

The Press and Perot.   Bush Sr. got peed on. 

230

Lets not attack fat chicks, they need loving to.

 

Thank you.

231 OT

BREAKING: Illinois Supreme Court Rules Right to Keep and Bear Arms Extends Outside the Home

232

It seems simple enough to me. You take back the schools and MFM and poof

in 60 years things are humming again....

233 "How much difference would, say, Mike Castle have made over the generic dickbag that actually won the election? I'm going to go with "0"." Really? Because the bitch we nominated was an idiot and made a national laughingstock of the party.

234 upon her being crushed at the polls the argument transformed from 'she can win" to "we knew she would lose but we meant to lose.' To be fair, she did outperform Mike Castle. And someone was nervous enough about her to illegally access her tax records and lie about them.

235 Bush 1. You can win against an incumbent if you can carry a solid message. Posted by: Rich at September 12, 2013 02:42 PM (X3jCZ) Clinton didn't beat Bush 41, Perot did.

236 upon her being crushed at the polls the argument transformed from 'she can win" to "we knew she would lose but we meant to lose.'

That's not what *I'm* currently arguing though.  I'm simply saying that the gamble was effectively *low cost*.  If she'd won, it would be a huge pay off, but if she lost, it didn't hurt much (maybe a little pain, but not much).

237 They don't. They can't. They can't explain which regulations are bad, and why, and they can't explain lower spending in a way that doesn't sound like Marie Antoinette. These are professional politicians, not competent people making their way through life. Oh, I know that. I'm simply pointing out how they *could* (if they were capable). Ah, yes. I'm too stupid to understand. Not what I said, but if you want to read it that way go ahead. My point was that LiB/BiD is not inherently pessimistic, which was (or at least seemed to be) your point. I'll further qualify by saying LiB/BiD is for us, in this little quiet corner of the internet (and other Conservative blogs). It is by no means the message we should be delivering to the masses.

238 You know, for everyone who likes to talk about how I can't stop "hoovering the shit out of Ace's ass" and whatnot, has it occurred to you for even one moment that we are on opposite ends of this issue?  He thinks this whole "shutdown the government over Obamacare" thing is a good idea (even if only on a level of principle).  I think it's real retarded.  I make no bones about my disagreement.  And yet I'm supposed to be nothing more than a toadying flatterer?  C'mon people, it doesn't even fucking make sense.  It's just a cheap shot.

239 someone is dancing between raindrops?

240 #208

The Libertarians are going to have to lose their 'gussied up libertinism' and grow a pair of balls regarding stupid sexual / cultural liberation nonsense. They're going to have to finally admit that you can't claim that philosophy while having a kneejerk reaction against 'hate crimes' (really, thought crimes) against the Designated Victim Group.

They're going to have to be able to say, "Actually, some people have a principled position against homosexual behavior which needs to be respected. The only solution that is libertarian is to permit these people to reject homosexuality over here, while allowing these people over here to permit it."

If that ever happens Libertarians can join up with Traditionalists and reforge the Right Wing of our politics anew.

241

222 -

 

But it's all about putting OUR irredeemable morons in charge. 

 

I keep hearing the Who song in my head... "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

242 >>>>Then the Tea Party needs to stop putting up shitty candidates.<<<<<

Wee ain't that the pot callin' the kettle "dirty-arse."


Maybe the GOP should work on that as well. McCain and Romney were as lousy choices as anyone the Tea Partiers have ever gotten behind.

243 I honestly think that in 2016 the presidential election will be at most a dead heat, because the Dems will field Uncle Feeble minded Joe, Hilary 'Cankles' Rod-him Clinton, and Sen. John Franken-Kerry and the Repubs will have at least a couple of young contenders. God help us if one of the perennial re-run candidates wins the primary.

But the 2014 and 2016 congressional elections are where the action is and if Repubs continue to drift to being Dem-Lite, then our only hope will be Tea Party type candidates who don't conform to Washington once they get the brass ring.

The voting public is maybe 20% in the know, 70% LiVs and 10% don't know shit and never will but vote anyway. 

The LiVs are the key. Dem wonks will vote Dem; Repub wonks R, without fail. LiVs tend to vote on sound bites or appearance or what they're going to do for me.

244 The Left is also very good at targeting cultural centers of power that oppose them and destroying them. The Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, any mention of God in public, that sort of thing. Did you know the % of American kids in public schools i rising? All the success of home-schooling and charter schools ... and yet the % in private schools has gone down. That's mainly due to a sharp decline in parochial school attendance. Especially Catholic schools.

245 228 Tatoo De Plane,

soon to be 51%...

FreeShit Army votes for its paycheck...

the disenfrachised "muddled" would like to vote for their kids' future.

246 A well regulated militia would need to be able to go out side.

247 Focus Jeff B., focus.

248 "We've already won on gun control..." ------------- What do you mean "we?" That was a grassroots campaign in which the establishment GOP didn't have any part in organizing. What support in that effort did the milquetoast CO GOP establishment offer, other than bitch that it was a lost cause because no way was the President of the Senate going to be ousted? Credit where credit is due. Establishment types saying "we won" is like Russia claiming victory in its war against Japan in WWII since they declared on August 7. J

249 233 202 SFGoth,

Eh the shale/NG boom we're shitting on is "real" and simple and matters across the board.

Of course the media in bed with the Tech Company Rick Enviro nuts will demonize the GOP but a welfare mom who can't afford an I-Pad understands her ghas and heating bill...

but the GOP refuses to do the work of talking to the poor about improvement and thus we let Donkey buy them for peanuts.
Posted by: sven10077

Can any Republican get up on TV and explain why this is a good idea other than by yelling JOBS!  MONEY!  CHEAP GAS!  Send somebody up there to explain what it is, how it works, and why it's a good idea.  Ross Perot didn't get 24% of the vote just because he was a protest candidate (and a really funny-looking one at that).  People ate up his pie charts and down home explanations.

250 BREAKING: Illinois Supreme Court Rules Right to Keep and Bear Arms Extends Outside the Home

Nice.  I look forward to the arming of the lawful citizens of Chicago.

251 Speaking of delusion, I was shaking my head the whole time people were talking about how Romney was going to win women because he'd give them strong fine sons with his mighty seed.

252 >>Bush 1. You can win against an incumbent if you can carry a solid message. You forgot Ross Perot.

253 I'm just going to put it here: a real, non trolling, non sarcastic comment at WaPo artificer_1 6:40 PM GMT+0300 Another success for President Obama, the best Commander in Chief we have had for a very long time. Not only has he prevented further large-scale use of chemical weapons, but he has shut up McCain and the other nutjobs clamoring for the US to bombbombbombIran. Consider-- he was the guy who ordered the BinLaden mission and oversaw the Libya campaign, both of which achieved their goals with no loss of US lives and the expenditure of a tiny fraction of our massive defense budget. This is obviously an intelligent, cautious leader who makes tough decisions when needed. And has done pretty well at roping in other international actors to do his bidding-- Europe in Libya, and Russia in Syria. Can't say any recent president other than the elder Bush is even in his league as CINC.

254 Now, you may very well have a prolonged stretch of something similar to Japan's Lost Decade. But it won't crash. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 12, 2013 02:28 PM (OWjjx) I dare say much of the American population will not be so tolerant of a Lost Decade as has been Japan's. In their nation, compliance is regarded as a virtue. I say that in THIS nation, at some point in the decline, fires will ignite spontaneously everywhere. We are not the people who lived in the thirties. We share the same name, but not the same virtues.

255

247 -

 

Coming from a guy who knows cheap.

 

It may be a cheap shot, but if it's the only shot you got, you shoot it. 

256 "Really? Because the bitch we nominated was an idiot and made a national laughingstock of the party."

I think the Republican primary voters in Delaware nominated her.  And CO'D and the voters made Mike Castle the laughingstock of Delaware.

257 "Learning to campaign, learning to handle hostile media, etc." And Christine O'Donnell made a career of appearing on Bill Maher's show denouncing masturbation before she became a political gadfly and ultimately liability.

258

Anyone up for a futile gesture to soothe our impotent rage?

259

What would make me optomistic?  Reforming the GOP primary system.  Have one day of everyone voting for the candidate of their choice instead of the piecemeal bullshit we have now.

 

Another biggy with me would be to eliminate open  state primaries.  If states still insist on having these abortions, then the GOP needs to set rules that say their  delegate votes will not  be counted.

260 DC is simply a magnet for all of the worst kinds of behavior, changing old guard representatives helps but the nature of the thing - the essence that is Washington - is an enduring drag on moving our agenda forward.

261 The GOP needs to understand why the Tea Party has the heart of the party, or its own heart will begin failing. And, the joke: The Democrats/Left know exactly who the Tea Party is, and what they stand for, and why they are so dangerous. Every day Harry Reid trashes the Tea Party. Every day. They've always got one grandstander targeting their greatest fears each day. It's harry's job to target the tea party when he's at the nation's podium.

262 I've pretty well diserned by now that the vast middle that everyone says must be appeased are basically left liberals who don't foam at the mouth

263 All the success of home-schooling and charter schools ... and yet the % in private schools has gone down. That's mainly due to a sharp decline in parochial school attendance. Especially Catholic schools.

This is because Catholic schools and churches are often just as leftist as the public schools nowadays (not all are, but depressingly many).  So why pay more when you can get it for free?

264 This is why the Tea Party continues to inspire passion while the GOP inspires little else but resignation. The Tea Party might be wrong about most things. I believe the GOP thinks they are wrong about most things, especially strategy. Yeah, OK. Telling the reader to STFU clears the misunderstanding right up.

265 And CO'D and the voters made Mike Castle the laughingstock of Delaware. Posted by: mrp at September 12, 2013 02:50 PM (HjPtV) I don't remember Castle cutting an ad about whether or not he practiced witchcraft.

266 if only those asshole RINOs hadn't sabotaged Sarah Palin!

267 Stop demonizing Perot.  Bush defeated himself.  Had he not been Reagan's VP, he'd have been crushed.  If it were Perot v. Clinton, Perot would have won -- had he wanted to.  He never expected to do more than steer the debate, and when he realized he might actually catch the car he was chasing, he bailed out.  For all the hating of RINOs some of you display, you sure love one of the biggest (ADA and taxes anyone?).

268 If Mike Castle was so awesome, how did he lose in the primary to an idiot?

269

"Is idealism stupid? It is stupid. I frequently fulminate against idealism. I think it's silly.

I also think that idealism -- and its frequent dance partner, Optimism -- is, as stupid as it is, absolutely essential for a winning electoral coalition."

I disagree. SOME degree of idealism isn't stupid. The idea that you're more likely to get some of what you want if you commit to fighting for it than if you don't put in any effort is not stupid. It's the truth.

The GOP's problem is that they're not even willing to try, they're terrified of trying, and they've made that clear. They have made it clear that they will never put forth any effort or sacrifice to serve their constituents' interests, and hence there is no hope in supporting them.

270

"We're governed by irredeemable morons no matter who's in charge."

 

 

You forgot they are also vain and greedy.

271 My point was that LiB/BiD is not inherently pessimistic, which was (or at least seemed to be) your point. Yes it is. And yes, it is. It's a refusal to act. It's quitting. It's walking away out of anger and frustration. Which I understand, but don't agree with and don't respect. Maybe it's just me. If so, fine. But I'll bet irongrampa and a few others are with me. I was taught that you never quit. No matter the odds, no matter the situation, you don't stop fighting. If you think you're right, if you think you're doing the right thing, then you never quit. Retreat? Retool? Rethink? Sure. But walk off the playing field? No sir.

272 You know, for everyone who likes to talk about how I can't stop "hoovering the shit out of Ace's ass" and whatnot, has it occurred to you for even one moment that we are on opposite ends of this issue? He thinks this whole "shutdown the government over Obamacare" thing is a good idea (even if only on a level of principle). I think it's real retarded. I make no bones about my disagreement. And yet I'm supposed to be nothing more than a toadying flatterer? C'mon people, it doesn't even fucking make sense. It's just a cheap shot. ---------- That's exactly why people say it. Because even though you disagree with Ace, you'll go out of your way to compliment him. To make it civil. On the other hand, you like to insult everyone else who disagrees with you with your admittedly arrogant tone.

273 259 SFGoth,

the 1992 electorate is NOT the 2012 one...
that said yes they suck...

basically the GOP cannot sell water to a dehydrated man in the desert...

this nation is atop 1.5 quadrillion in shale potential...

so the math...we're not broke we're lazy and entitled.

274

WITCHCRAFT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIZIBm2QGaM

275 whatup at #7 said, "How does Obamacare get stopped when El Presidente has a veto?"

Simple actually, but impossible for the GOP.  Refuse to accept the prog's frame of reality.  In their version you do one man one vote one time, you heave everything ya got, lie, cheat and steal to get ObamaCare (or any other big prog project) passed one time and then it IS.  It would take another fillibuster proof vote + a POTUS to undo.

But if we were willing to reject that frame entirely and substitute our own we could say something like this:

"Fie on that.  The POTUS gets to fly around and do his golfing and presidentin' stuff, the Senate debates endlessly, advises and consents and ratifies treaties... but taxing and spending is the special power of the House.  And we refuse to continue spending money we don't have and have no realistic hope of repaying.  We especially refuse to add new spending for Obamacare.  So as of today it is done.  Kaput.  There will be zero dollars budgeted for it.

There will be no continuing resolution including it because there will be no continuing resolution other than a short month to month affair that will include across the board cuts to everything and get worse each month.  We WILL have a budget and that budget will project a balance in ten years and it will not include a dollar for Obamacare.  If this country's government has become so bloated and screwed up we can't even budget it anymore that in itself is reason enough to drastically cut it back.

There will also be no omnibus budget.  There will be at least a dozen funding bills this year and each year after it shall be broken into smaller and smaller parts so that members aren't forced to vote for things no majority supports simply to fund vital functions of the government.  And forget baseline budgeting.  Forget even flat baseline.  As of next budget cycle we will have zero baseline, each department will be required to justify anew every dollar it seeks each and every year.

In short, we entirely reject the old way of doing things where the end result was government always grows and liberty retreats.  It is over, get over it."

276 #268

Right. Know your audience...

Masturbation may be self abuse, but if you're dealing with a nation full of semi-guilt-ridden wankers, take it from me that the Anti Masturbation Platform ain't the winner.

277 The left isn't burdened with shucking idealism, we shouldn't either. What they do well is channeling and managing the idealists. It helps that their goals are generally the same, for them its figuring out how to get there. The left incorporates their hardcore into working for them in turn they actually deliver. This is the right's problem, they don't allow people in and they don't try to accomplish ideals and goals. A true believer on the right is a naïf, on the left a saint. I'm not saying certain ideas and means aren't problematic but when you have this disconnect you are going to have problems.

278 Frankly, a political party that won't fight for anything and won't take any measures it legally can to stop unconstitutional obscenities from becoming law is useless, no matter what their polling says.

279 C'mon people, it doesn't even fucking make sense. A. Yeah, I don't Hoover. Reams of examples. B. In what way? I've been hearing this kind of reasoning forever, Jeff. We had to go along with TARP because CATASTROPHE (oh, and on that one Ace was, in fact, thoroughly wrong). We have to give the President a green lgiht on a completely unmoored Syria policy becasue it will weaken the country or something (how many times has that lightweight told his own party that they have to do x or y to "save his presidency"?). Conservatives have to start somewhere. So until you have a somewhere to suggest, please belay the guidance on courses of action. Going along with the status quo (and that is what any continuing resolution will be) is a defeat. That is what got us here.

280 "This is because Catholic schools and churches are often just as leftist as the public schools nowadays." That and because the schools churn out whore daughters and gay sons.

281 We've already won on gun control, the sequester and stopping the Senate amnesty bill, but in the future: Huh... Funny, those all seem to be things where they agreed with us. Almost as if it was the "purity" position which won out in the end. But I must be misremembering. Provided the GOP plays it smart (and that means ignoring most of you), control of both the House and Senate in 2014 for starters. Then and only then: Reversing some of the spending hikes Obama pushed through. Delay or weaken Obamacare before it becomes permanently entrenched. Republican President in 2016 who takes advantage of the expanded Presidential powers newly minted by Obama (teaching the Dems that precedent is a bitch). In the meantime, the best we can hope for is to limit the damage. That's all the minority party can do. Nope, sorry. Does not work. Saying "Oh, if something *in the future which we do not control* happens, then we can win!!!" doesn't work. You named 3 things that the GOP won- and all of them were things where so-called "purity" Republicans fairly melted the DC phone lines. The GOP "won" those by sticking to what the "purity" crowd wanted. Then your next statement is "ignore" the base? Seriously? Do you honestly expect me to believe that Boeher would have stood against Gun Control if polls had come out showing 55% in support of it (however contrived said poll would be)? Your own three "successes" refute your own following argument.

282 283 BC1981,

and BC if this were a military exercise where I could kill my opponent I'd be game...


politics in this nation is the equivalent of a gaggle of retards fucking the economy's doorknob....

I uh have socks to organize thanks...you play that game.

283 @238 et seq. "Read my lips: no new taxes."
Bush-the-first beat Bush-the-first.
(Of course, politics was predictably turning weird about that time as the psychedelic sybarites realized they could get elected, or support weirdos. Jesse Ventura was a MN mayor, and later governor, for example. So a "hand-grenade with a bad haircut" could peel of some of the PT Barnum electorate.)

284 Let It Burn is not for us, AllenG. It's for you. I'll be very surprised if most people who read Ace agree with that sentiment. I think most thought it was a funny joke. Some good SMOD level dark humor. Something somebody might say in a moment of anger or depression, but they wouldn't really mean it. But it's clear you actually mean it. Which is horrible and evil. Preserving civilization is a worthy goal. Wishing for things to burn and society to crumble is profoundly immoral.

285 people aren't going to vote for the party that takes away free shit and state jobs when over half the state gets free shit or state jobs.

Yeah.  I think we're already past the point of no return there.  Even the people who pay in are getting enough shit--skrewls with free lunch regardless of family income, bike trails and teapot museums, "free" IUDs--that they don't want to turn off the spigot.

286 A chicken in every pot, and a flying car in every garage!

Posted by: Fritz at September 12, 2013 02:37 PM (UzPAd)

 

 

 

Hey, leave me out of this!

287 106 So large a number, in fact, that you will see President Hillary Clinton.

See, that, I doubt. If the rumors hold up and Elizabeth Warren throws herself into the Dem primary, I think she'd beat Hillary because Warren is a near-perfect specimen of the modern DNC base. And she'd be very very defeatable in the general - you could probably run Romney again and win.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 12, 2013 02:29 PM (B/VB5)

The rumor I heard is that if Hillary thinks she herself can't win, then she'll defer to Kirsten Gillibrand and support her. 

288 I don't remember Castle cutting an ad about whether or not he practiced witchcraft.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 12, 2013 02:51 PM (Y92Nd)

And I don't remember Mr. Republican Mike Castle endorsing the GOP nominee, either.  As for the "witchcraft" BS, well, the Del. primary voters must've really hated Mikey.

289 It's always the amount and kind of idealism, and that the idealism be tempered with realism, that is important.

Basing an ideal on an impossibility is patently idiotic. This is why Marxism -> Communism fails. Its basic premise is impossible, ergo, no amount of hope and change in that direction will make it so.

290 "It helps that their goals are generally the same." Their goals are tearing everything decent in society down. Wrecking shit is easier than building, and most humans are lazy. It's the curse of the species.

291 how is it infeasible to press for the delay of a law that the public wants outright repealed? Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:32 PM (/IWYB) Obamacare should be repealed, or implemented on schedule. Possibly a sufficiently large enough dose of poison will induce vomiting, thereby saving the patient from a fatal dose. You mitigate it, you give it better chance to be absorbed.

292 The GOP needs to die. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at September 12, 2013 02:33 PM (zF6Iw) Well, some of it anyway.

293 "And I don't remember Mr. Republican Mike Castle endorsing the GOP nominee, either." You say that like it's a bad thing. How many Dems endorsed Al Greene?

294 That and because the schools churn out whore daughters and gay sons. Posted by: Tattoo De Plane


What?

295 #299

Vox Day has a habit of reminding people of the following:

"Men reliably fail to understand that which it is in their financial best interest not to understand."

The dependent will almost NEVER understand why the dependency needs to stop, until there is no more gravy.

296 I thought Festivus was a one day deal. I didn't know it went on forever.

297 298 Flatbush Joe,

What civilization?

The one that ignored Gosnell and rewarded the guy who had his back with reelection?
Yeah show me a "society" south of Canada and North of Mexico extant worth preserving 'cause I'm plumb out.

298 Let It Burn is not for us, AllenG. It's for you. I'll be very surprised if most people who read Ace agree with that sentiment. I think most thought it was a funny joke. ...maybe the first 400 times

299 how is it infeasible to press for the delay of a law that the public wants outright repealed? Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:32 PM (/IWYB) Delaying is de facto complicity.

300 Wishing for things to burn and society to crumble is profoundly immoral.

As opposed to the morality of maintaining our totalitarian regime, I guess.

301 >>>That's a deal, provided the conservative base decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys

I'm afraid if I were to "grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys" my intellectual nature will conclude that I can delay but not prevent the trend in politics, and therefore, my most reasonable course of action is to hasten it, because my odds of a favorable outcome in the long run are much better if I hurry the implementation of coercive collectivism than if I slow it and make it bearable. If you still believe in a political solution to this problem I have to conclude you are delusional. It's a classic Northeast Idiom. "You can't get there from here" which is kind of confusing. It doesn't mean you can't get there period. It means you can't get there directly from here, you have to go someplace completely different then you can get to where you want to go. If I were to 'grow up and be mature' I'd start placing my chips heavily on that different place, and that doesn't involve politicians with 'R's after there name.

302 This piece hits me where I live, Ace. I want to "feel" better. Desperately. I must "feel" better before I can "be" better. It's just a pre-requisite. And you're right, the establishment won't indulge me that little bity no-skin-off-their-nose pleasure. So I won't buy a ticket to their production. Dumb of them.

303 Let It Burn , to me,  is like saying Let the Sun Rise.

304 299 Heather Radish,

I choose not to take the ride on "free"...

buckle up and get ready for impact.

305 And, I should say, I don't think you are bad person AllenG, but I think this "Let it Burn" meme you work so hard to spread is a profoundly evil and immoral idea. Sometimes good people have terribly immoral ideas.

306 As an Illinoisian, I can tell you that the theory that "run the most conservative candidate and they will win" is not always true. Which is why you have not heard from Senators Al Salvi and Alan Keyes in quite a while. Not hearing from Senators Gomez and Brown from MA, either... If you ran Obama with an R after his name he'd likely lose in MA. And if he wins, you haven't really gotten anything.

307 Btw, I am taking orders for flying cars. You'll need a deposit and some patience, and some mechanical aptitude (or a handy friend) b/c I can only sell them in kit form ("Hi, plaintiff bar! *waves*)
They'll only come in one color.

308 ==> "A Republican pushed the lightbulb ban."

This Republican is the current chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, which indicates where the GOP establishment falls. Also is running reelection ads referring to himself as a "regulation fighter".

309

Posted by: RiverC, White Chocolate Emancipator at September 12, 2013 02:48 PM (El+h4)

 

Actually, Libertarians are all about believe what you want...

 

It just stops when one group can use Governmental Power to enforce their beliefs...

 

Thus, you are free to say Gay Marriage is an oxymoron, and heck, you can even NOT do business with them.... that's your Freedom of Association, and Property Right...

 

And Hate crime laws are an abomination... as it does not matter WHY you do something... its the ACT that should be outlawed.

 

Its the Libertarian Position that the Government should not be making rules about who can be with who... and no one should get an advantage over others because of their choices....

 

Thus.... following the Libertarian ideal... its not that Gays should get the same Tax and Legal Advantage as Hetero married couples.... its that there should be NO advantage for Married couples.... as this discriminates against those who are single.

 

If you want to tie someones life to yourself... it should be via a contract.... and leave Marriage to your religious institutions...

310 Jeff B. and Ace I apologize--seriously. My dad had a real issue with that--it was his bete noire or whatever. And--he was probably wrong. I once took a class where the teacher said every day-- "bring me a jelly donut!". And I refused to bring him the jelly donut. And the best lesson was--sometimes you have to bring the jelly donut. And he told me that after the grade. B instead of an A. And that teacher was right. (Yes I am still sort of...eh forget it.)

311 Regular people in comments sections and on twitter are getting more and more bold.  I've heard people say things like "wonder what they'll surprise us with for the holidays, we got Syria for labor day" and be annoyed and mean it and not care that everyone on the target line heard them say it.

312 As opposed to the morality of maintaining our totalitarian regime, I guess. Posted by: HeatherRadish™, BFD, ZOMG, WTF, BBQ, QED at September 12, 2013 02:58 PM (/kI1Q) That's not an either/or and you know it. One can oppose both LiB and the status quo quite easily.

313 Gabriel Malor could do with reading this article, but he's too busy saying that idealism is not only silly, but stupid and suicidal, and that if we're not following the mainstream rules of politics, we'll never win anything.

Just like President Romney.

314 AOSHQ Style Manual, Chapter 7 (Memes), Paragraph 4.

If a joke is funny once, it is funny forever.



Never heard of that one.  Better leave it to the cablers.

315 I suppose that there is room for a campaign of hope among the poor.  Vote for Obama and get a pittance.  Vote for me and become a free, rich man.

316 Another biggy with me would be to eliminate open state primaries. If states still insist on having these abortions, then the GOP needs to set rules that say their delegate votes will not be counted. Posted by: Soona at September 12, 2013 02:50 PM (3Mz5/) and get rid of the caucuses. why do we let Iowa make a hash of things every year?

317 315 Heather Radish,

Quite...

Syria you guys we have to support Choom or we lose the national prestige internationally!

Ever notice shit like that is a strictly one way river?

Fuck it Donkey undermined the GOP in power my whole life...time to counter battery or let the mules win it all.

318 You know what HP...like Gus said in Lonesome Dove...

"the GOP is the kind of party I am gonna enjoy hanging"

Then you have nothing to say when the Dems regain complete control of the federal government and push through the gun control, amnesty, and spending bills they wanted but couldn't due to Republican opposition.

319 Flatbush Joe.  I don't think you understand the math.  It is going to burn.  The financial math cannot be stopped.

320 No matter the odds, no matter the situation, you don't stop fighting. If you think you're right, if you think you're doing the right thing, then you never quit. Retreat? Retool? Rethink? Sure. But walk off the playing field? No sir. Except sometimes the game is rigged in such a way that you can't win, even if you're doing the right thing. And what is more right? Propping up a failing system that will slowly force more and more of the population into misery, or allowing it to collapse under its own weight so that future generations can have the freedom that our grandparents and great-grandparents had? That right there is something to think about. Had our great-grandparents in FDR's age accepted "Let it Burn" during the down-turn that became the Great Depression, the national economy would have turned around quickly (as it always had before) and we wouldn't have the New Deal or its descendents (the Great Society & ObamaCare to name two).

321 "You say that like it's a bad thing. How many Dems endorsed Al Greene?"

Hahaha.  The next time Tea Party types are accused of conducting "Purity Tests", let's remember Lugar and Castle.  Was Al Greene in a primary, running against an incumbent Dem Senator in that SC election cycle?  I think not.

322 >>>That's exactly why people say it. Because even though you disagree with Ace, you'll go out of your way to compliment him. To make it civil. On the other hand, you like to insult everyone else who disagrees with you with your admittedly arrogant tone.

1.) It's his fucking blog.  You show some respect for the proprietor of the home you're staying in, regardless of your opinion

2.) And it's not even entirely true anyway -- how soon the 2012 primaries have been forgotten.  I well remember accusing Ace of being an intellectually dishonest hack for shilling for Perry and attacking Romney on what I thought were totally bullshit grounds (still do!) back then.  Pretty harsh rhetoric.  Not proud of it or anything, but I'm just saying.

Also, I tend to meet people at the level they post at.  There are guys out there (a lot of whom haven't been around lately) like Knemon whom I disagree with on most everything, but who make their arguments measuredly, with a lack of heat and insults and childish LiB-posturing.  I try to respond in similar fashion.  But to the people who call me a pussy faggot RINO establishment shit-hoovering ass-kisser?  Yeah, I'm a lot less concerned about being rude to them. 

This isn't even a defense of my behavior -- a better man would be more polite, and use a more consistent tone regardless of whom he was addressing -- so much as it is an explanation of the reason why I alternate between a reasoned tone and insufferable stridency. 

Also, I tend to write immensely long blocks of text, and figure that nobody will even bother to read them unless I throw a few "fucks" and ALLCAPS PHRASES and emphasized italics in their for visual variety.  ;-)

323 321 And, I should say, I don't think you are bad person AllenG, but I think this "Let it Burn" meme you work so hard to spread is a profoundly evil and immoral idea. Sometimes good people have terribly immoral ideas.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:59 PM (ZPrif)

I don't really think AllenG has any control over whether 'it' 'will burn' or not. It's just a sentiment of exasperation.

It's the stupidity emanating from Washington like so many hot rays that will cause the burning.

324 @299. Exactly. My answer to the Let It Burn crowd has long been "it's going to whether we let it or not". When the freebies run out, and they will run out precisely when everyone else decides our debt is not worth owning, there will be riots.

325 280 If Mike Castle was so awesome, how did he lose in the primary to an idiot? He would have run a much better campaign in the general.

326 The Deuce @281 said, "they're terrified of trying"

It is even worse.  They aren't terrified of trying.  They are terrified that if they tried they might succeed.  They would hate 'winning' far more than they would 'losing.'  Meaning that given a choice of living in modern prog reality or America they agree more with the progs and really really fear and loath 'the base' and it's customs and morals.

327 Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 02:42 PM (n/+FT)

tl;dr

328 328 BC1981,

Right BC by continuing to pretend that voting for the McCain gang is "fixing things"...

No I am gonna stop trying to keep the nation from drunk driving....

call me evil, call me retarded, but you won't call me "in the car with a drunk dad."

329 Who led the light bulb ban?

330 AOSHQ Style Manual, Chapter 7 (Memes), Paragraph 4. If a joke is funny once, it is funny forever. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 12, 2013 02:59 PM (OWjjx) I remember when you had such bold comments...

331

Republican President in 2016 who takes advantage of the expanded Presidential powers newly minted by Obama (teaching the Dems that precedent is a bitch)

 

And who then  instantly  backtracks in the face of massive protests by the Dems, the MFM and astroturf screaming "Hitler!"  Sydney Leathers will piss rosewater before a GOP president will stand up to those clowns.

332

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 12, 2013 02:58 PM (0q2P7)

 

There is a point in Damage Control, where you KNOW the ship is going to sink...

 

You can continue to bail water... but all you are doing is putting off the inevitable... hoping for a miracle...

 

So you must decide to abandon ship....

 

Some of us are at, or past, that decision point...

333 344 Me either.

334 how bad is the CO flooding?

Coast Guard assets are on the way to assist

335 You know, I shouldn't have to care that Republicans in Massachusetts are essentially Democrats. It shouldn't matter. Unless Massachusetts has turned over to straight cannibalism I don't see how I should care what goes on there.

336 "run the most conservative candidate and they will win" is not always true. That's because some states are simply beyond redemption on a statewide basis. The list is finite: California, Illinois, Mass, Maryland, Hawaii, and increasingly Rhode Island, Oregon, and Washington. Outside of that, you've got a chance--yes, even in New York occasionally.

337 Nope, sorry. Does not work. Saying "Oh, if something *in the future which we do not control* happens, then we can win!!!" doesn't work.

If reality doesn't work for you, then perhaps you should consider stocking up on LSD.

338 Posted by: steve at September 12, 2013 02:23 PM (L9End) Marketing...marketing....marketing.. Does no one believe in salesmanship anymore? Why not try selling them to become the base? Our ideas are historically winning ideas, its a good product. Our product, which the country was founded upon, does not need to be watered down to market...it needs to be sold. The GOP is lazy, it wants to place ads, sit back and let the number crunchers make it all happen...how's that been working out? How about this novel idea, sell your ideas and convert the pricks to becoming the base....I know, I know...it's much harder work and requires much more talent.. I'm to saying its going to be easy, I'm saying its worth it.

339 If we want to win we need to start bringing more people on to the team. Demographics are working against our message whether people like hearing it or not. Posted by: JackStraw at September 12, 2013 02:39 PM (g1DWB) That and the ever present onslaught of liberal propaganda disguised as news and entertainment. Hell, even non propaganda entertainment works to their advantage by depriving people of time that could have been spent living an actual life. People have so few actual life experiences of their own nowadays.

340

>>>I'm just going to put it here: a real, non trolling, non sarcastic comment at WaPo

 

THAT kind of shit is part of why I keep saying there will be no revolution every time somebody brings that crap up. Yeah, the militia types are riled up - and so what? A fringe of a fringe.

341 http://preview.tinyurl.com/kxywhzx

342 "My friends, you have nothing to fear from an Obama Presidency."
--John McCain, 2008

"Folks, Obama is a good man he just has the wrong policies"
--Mitt Romney, 2012

You want to talk about sucking all the life and will to fight out of your base?

343 #348

Not when the NSA says 'yes sir!' to all of his requests to blackmail them.

344 how bad is the CO flooding?<<<

3 dead.  still raining.

345 It occurred to me today that Gabe has to get up uber early to post his comments.  Maybe it's better if he surprises everyone with his comments sometime later in the day. 

I seriously don't know how ace and the bloggers do it.  When you have to do something every day that which was once fun becomes a chore and eventually a job one tries to avoid.  It's a rare person who can keep it all fresh day after day. 

I think Gabe could use a break from having to post that first post and he doesn't even realize he could use a break.

346 Jeff B. Plus--in case you missed it I replied to you in the other thread-- 416 415 I very much wish I was as polite and thoughtful as rockmom. She makes most of the same points as I do, but is far more likable in doing so. On the other hand, she gets ignored every bit as much, so it's an open question as to what difference it ultimately makes. Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 02:32 PM (n/+FT) ************* Shit. Good point. Posted by: tasker at September 12, 2013 02:34 PM (r2PLg)

347 Colorado doesn't have a coast? The flooding must have been really bad.

348 334 HolloPoint,

Yeah?

Amigo Grande! A Schumer/Rubio/Graham/McCain production that Ryan, Boner, and Cantor loved...

I don't think cause and effect works like you think Tiger...

I am throuigh voting for politicians and consultants getting their turn at the trough.

349

Posted by: sven10077 at September 12, 2013 02:54 PM (9jfyN)

 

Oddly though, those of us who go "play that game" straight into the fucking hornets nest to point out "you're all crazy and wrong" to the academics who will become the next regulators, spend our time without support and being endlessly mocked by those of you with "real lives."

You think I like it in here trying to ward off secularism and progressivism (BIRM)?

Fuck no,

Give me a test tube and some mice to cut open, I'd probably be happier (as I'm slowly starting to realize.)

But it's a necessary evil of sorts, if we aren't here agitating against the borg that is the left, we're screwed 110% (as opposed to 99, I guess.)

350 >>>Preserving civilization is a worthy goal. Wishing for things to burn and society to crumble is profoundly immoral.

I've tried to fix it. I can't. I prayed to God to fix it. He won't. So now I'm left with near certainty that the only thing that keeps 1984 from becoming 2084 is a complete collapse.

If we have to give up everything we've accomplished so far to salvage any hope of being something better in the future then that's what has to be done. In short, not "Better red then dead." as you have stated Rather "Give me liberty, or give me death! "

351 Well, Brown actually did win an election. Which is more than can be said for Alan Keyes. Keyes didn't have national backing like Brown did either. The honorable Senators McMahon and Fiorina may be a better analog.

352 Except sometimes the game is rigged in such a way that you can't win, even if you're doing the right thing. And? No really, and what? Whether or not the other side is playing fair has nothing to do with the rightness (or wrongness) of the underlying fight. And what is more right? Propping up a failing system that will slowly force more and more of the population into misery, or allowing it to collapse under its own weight so that future generations can have the freedom that our grandparents and great-grandparents had? Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 03:01 PM (/PCJa) That's a bullshit strawman argument. Show me once where I have ever supported the status quo. Show me where I support the bullshit we see now. You believe that the fight is over and isn't worth fighting. I believe in continuing to fight. That's the difference.

353 >>He would have run a much better campaign in the general.


Give me lottery numbers, Karnak.

354 "run the most conservative candidate and they will win" is not always true.

***

It never was.  LBJ was a corrupt scumbag and I hope he's getting the barbed cock of Satan several times a day, but he still beat Goldwater.

355 Anyway, the real lesson of the CoD fiasco is that Delaware is somehow an actual state and that shouldn't be tolerated.  Exhibit A: Joe Biden.

356

I think as conservatives/Tea Partiers we need to recognize that that there are certain elections that supporting moderate Republicans is allowable (see Delaware Senate race in 2010).   As a Pennsylvanian, I recognize that Pat Toomey is probably as close to conservative that we are going to get (and be able to win a statewide election).  My belief is that we should push for Tea Party-like candidates in deep red states and in red congressional districts.  If we do that, conservatives/Tea Partiers will control the caucuses (and you will no longer have leaders like Boehner, Cantor and McConnell).

357 Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 02:42 PM (n/+FT) I see this long winded post and conclude i'm not going to read it, and I find this nic attached after I scroll past. Funny that.

358

Posted by: caustic at September 12, 2013 03:00 PM (/b8+5)

 

 

Not just in comment sections.... I'm hearing Political things said in offices that I never thought I'd hear...

 

Everyone has been thinking these things for years.... but now people ARE starting to talk...

359 LIB is not about wishing for the end of civilization. It is about acknowledging facts as they exist and where those facts are likely to take us. Some of us have watched our betters inside the Beltway take our money and time for years and then sell us down the river. We're not stupid. We've been hoodwinked too many times. LIB is about concentrating on our families and our home communities. It's about practicing virtue so that when things go south, and they most definitely will, given the current state of things in D.C. we will be prepared. Allen G. doesn't need my defense, but there it is, anyway.

360 3,000 people being evacuated from Commerce City

361 @67
"And if your strategy does not include some set of pathway by which your candidate can win more votes than his opponent, it's an unsound strategy.

Posted by: steve at September 12, 2013 02:23 PM (L9End)"

This is so true.

According to the -- I hope -- soon-to-be Lt. Governor, we have the most effective Tea Party in the state of Texas because the leader of our Tea Party is focused solely on winning elections.  She hates rallies.  Hates parades.  Hates anything that distracts from winning elections.

Because nothing else matters.

This is why her PAC is something like 9 out of 11 on candidates and issues over the last three primary and special election cycles, even though they were generally opposed by the local Republican party.

She will not even aid any prospective candidate unless he understands that he must have a credible path to victory -- not a guarantee, but a credible plan.  He must understand campaigning.  He must actually campaign.

It is not all that difficult and not all that expensive to win a local election, so long as you have a clear message, and you do the work to convince people to vote for your message.

She is sick of the hard-core, Christian, Conservative Champions who come to her with no idea even of what block walking is.  And expect her to win the election for them.  If you don't know what you're doing and you're unwilling to learn, she won't support you, because you are a waste of her time.

Freedom Works (IIRC... somebody like them anyway) provides free classes on how to organize and run a campaign.  It is really good.  And its free.   And they'll come to you, if you gather enough people.

362 A guy who couldn't beat a witch who doesn't fap would have lost the general.

363 One more thing and then I'll shut up. Reublicans have an opportunity RIGHT NOW that needs to be exploited. The Dem leadership is old. There is a viable strategy of contrast avaialble for those that would avail themselves of it. Please sit down Senator McCain.

364 Coast Guard to Colorado.

Lex Luthor wins in the end.

365

The other thing that Teh Won has going for him is the Cult of Personality and the absolute complicity of the MFM.  Remember to take that into account as well as to why this jackass won two elections.  (As well as the whole race thing).  It's absolutely disgraceful that the Republican Party is not taking any principled stand against anything Obama does, and it's why people are so disgusted with them.

Breitbart has an awesome SCTV skit up, mocking the LIV, Obamabots.  I was shocked that they even did this, but it's really true, and it humorously shows what we are up against:

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/k4hl9f2

366 Let it Burn *is* hope and change. Basically the media's Potemkin building means we're not going to win with King Debate or Queen Procedure so we'll have to let Emperor Math do his thing.... buckle up and prepare for impact. Posted by: sven10077 at September 12, 2013 02:43 PM (9jfyN) Good turn of phrase.

367 One can oppose both LiB and the status quo quite easily. Not right now, no you can't. Because the very levers of power serve only to protect that status quo. When the Federal Government has been reduced in power to what it is supposed to have (based on the Constitution) then you'll be right. Until then, helping prop up the system *is* supporting the status quo. All of DC is corrupt. For all he seems to be on my side, I trust Ted Cruz about as far as I could throw him. I have no doubt he'd sell me down the river if he thought it would be better for him. For now that's not the case.

368 Saying "Oh, if something *in the future
which we do not control* happens, then we can win!!!" doesn't work.

***

Boehner is hoping for change.

369 #374

A turn towards Constitutionalism is going to take a while; in the same way that progressivism started in the deep blue of college campuses and spread from there, the deep red of Constitutionalism is going to have to start in the 'boons and spread from there.

Will be ironic when rednecks are better educated than urbanites.

370 Lex Luthor would be a let it burn kind of guy.

371 Twitter seems to have crashed

372 It's time to go libertarian.  Sure you might find a few of their positions off-putting, but they're consistent, they're consistently angry, and they're the only people who actually believe in the change that has to happen to avoid certain disaster. 

Plus it's really, really, awesome for arguing with urban liberals, most of whom are only capable of talking about social issues.  You can sometimes even outflank them on the left which makes their heads explode. 

373 51 i don't understand people who either don't read, or badly misread and don't bother re-reading when they realize their interpretation makes no sense, just to get to the joy of telling someone he's wrong. doug, read more slowly and read more carefully and take note of who the subject is in a sentence. Don't just skim and read the verbs. Subjects are important. Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:21 PM (/IWYB) Doug isn't interested in reading ace. He's interested in trolling. Why should he read when he has assured himself that everything written here is actually an effort to tear down conservative candidates and prop up the liberal wing of establishment republicans.

374 Preserving civilization is a worthy goal. Wishing for things to burn and society to crumble is profoundly immoral.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:54 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

 

Not necessarily.  If one wants things to burn just for the sake of the burning, then it's immoral. 

 

But if one wants to use the fire to cleanse,  much like people did  against the black plague,  then it's purpose has a moral justification.

375

But at the end of the day, people need Hope that things will actually Change if they undertake the efforts the party asks them to undertake.

 

Very well said, Ace.  We can sit here and have our battles between "purists" and "RINOs" all day long and to no avail.  Until the "establishment", "party",  or whatever realizes that we "purists" ( I mean, I'm only talking about the freaking base for God's sake) feel as though we are being lied to, taken advantage of, mocked, and ignored the R's are going nowhere.  We no longer even have "hope" that they might actually keep their promises this time.

The resevoir of trust is empty.

376 http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.comyear. Vote for Ted Cruz!

377 AllenG @ 336 said, "allowing it to collapse"

You are making one mistake.  The progs want it to collapse even more than you do.  You seem to thing we will be allowed to rebuild after the Kaboom! But the progs aren't bringing on the Kaboom because they are stupid, they are carefully bringing about the Kaboom because they want the Kaboom.  They need the Kaboom.  Kaboom is part of the plan.

No country at peace at home and abroad, prosperous and moral, everything looking good for the future, etc. has had 'the revolution.'  So they are creating the conditions of fear, poverty, class envy, race riots, war and famine required for us to, in panic and hopelessness, turn to a 'strong man on a horse' who they will have ready at the exact right time.

We lose when the Kaboom comes.

378 Just read it again -- excellent writing. What the article ultimately leads me to conclude, however, is that the GOP has completely abandoned their ideals as much as the Democrats...to an extent that suggests that replacement, not reform, is the only option. Even when that idealism restored their political power, they forsook the values and the goals of whose who put them in office. We tried. Unless there is some way to dissolve the Republican leadership from scratch and start with people more interested in principle than in "reaching across the aisle"...the GOP is a dead husk that we should stop trying to revive.

379 "Unless Massachusetts has turned over to straight cannibalism I don't see how I should care what goes on there."

A cannibal is chewing on the corpse of an Massachusetts liberal.

Another cannibal turns to him and says, "Dude. Do you know what's IN those things?"

380 380 A guy who couldn't beat a witch who doesn't fap would have lost the general. Posted by: Boss Moss at September 12, 2013 03:07 PM (0axsw) And that comment right there is high on the list of reasons why I keep coming back here. Bravo sir, bravo.

381 Reublicans have an opportunity RIGHT NOW that needs to be exploited. The Dem leadership is old. There is a viable strategy of contrast avaialble for those that would avail themselves of it.

Yes.  Which is why a lot of people took it hard when Rubio decided we need 30 million more on welfare.

382 Twitter seems to have crashed[[/i]


Let It Burn.

383 Wow, it's interesting that people are taking AllenG's LIB/BID to heart. I don't think anyone really relishes the prospect of everything burning down, but I can understand looking around and feeling things need to hit rock bottom for real change to take place. Some of the biblical prophets were LIB types, IIRC. I certainly don't think it's evil or immoral.

384 214 Also there are 30 Republican governors. The comments act like the GOP has lost everything. Posted by: polynikes at September 12, 2013 02:43 PM (m2CN7) Got one of those governors which can veto creeping communism disguised as Obamacare?

385 #383

Although he is definitely losing steam. I think at this point he has probably lost everyone's undying fealty except for MSNBC, which he will never lose. MSNBC is that guy who killed someone with you back in the day and will not betray you because he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail.

386 370 BC1981,

Yup you keep loving that door knob...

the GOP just saw how you ratfuck Bronko Bama but it won't do it...

you let him look like the fucking retard he is and laugh at him.

Putin may be a dictatorial asshole but he loves his nation more than he loves blowjobs from the M$M...

387 The fight isn't over.That's the whole point.Is the GOP going to fight or just let things continue until the crisis comes of it's own momentum?I think we know the answer.

388 There's no amount of bailing and pumping that'll keep this ship afloat at this point, all we can do is wait for the inevitable or grab a life preserver before the chaos erupts on deck.

389 We have no reason to be optimistic, really. If we were more level-headed about things, we'd be more pessimistic, and understand that we're going to get older, and pieces of us will stop working, and then we'll die.

Thanks Ace!  I really needed that.  And people wonder why I only have one mirror in the whole house. 

390 and hell it is not even "blowjobs from the M$M" with regularity the GOP sells out its base for "blowjobs to be given later"...

and later never comes.

391 A guy who couldn't beat a witch who doesn't fap would have lost the general.

This is an alleged state where Joe Biden won the general a million times.

392 Not right now, no you can't. Because the very levers of power serve only to protect that status quo. When the Federal Government has been reduced in power to what it is supposed to have (based on the Constitution) then you'll be right. Until then, helping prop up the system *is* supporting the status quo. All of DC is corrupt. For all he seems to be on my side, I trust Ted Cruz about as far as I could throw him. I have no doubt he'd sell me down the river if he thought it would be better for him. For now that's not the case. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 03:08 PM (/PCJa) If you can't see anything between "Burn It Down" and "Prop It Up" then there's no point in continuing to talk to each other about it. That's just a fundamental disconnect between us.

393 MA is a demographics problem - people aren't going to vote for the party that takes away free shit and state jobs when over half the state gets free shit or state jobs. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 12, 2013 02:44 PM (icMTF) With this socialist juggernaut in play, most states are slowly evolving into free shit and state jobs demographics.

394 Louis Gohmert takes on this same issue http://bit.ly/17SMMcz

395     Romney called for U.S. to arm Syrian rebels without regard to where those weapons might end up.
    —
    OFA TruthTeam (@OFATruthTeam) October 23, 2012

396 225 In any case,corporations LOVE regulations that hurt their competitors.It's not about a level playing field anymoe. Posted by: steevy at September 12, 2013 02:44 PM (9XBK2) Moral imperatives only work on moral societies.

397 Well I'm off to a 4 hour tailgate party and then to watch those noble young men from NJ thrash those evil bastards from Foxboro. If I can still be an optimist after a life of being a Jets fan I can sure as hell remain optimistic that we can turn this thing around. Later all.

398 413 Lets compromise. Can we just let Delaware Burn? Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 12, 2013 03:12 PM (OWjjx) I'd rather we go with Massachusetts. Kennedys and Kerrys.

399 #401

Carlyle being unironically quoted by Wagner is very funny; Wagner was essentially a progressive type while Carlyle only hoped that the ashes of everything modern and that which proceeded it immediately (Ancien France for instance) would fertilize the soil of a new age.

While Wagner is hoping for that true revolution that will make everyone happy shiny people, Carlyle is counting the days until each revolution proceeds into its final phase: a great conflagration which destroys not merely what was before, but what the idiot revolutionaries tried to build, in their hubris, on top of it.

400 Late to the party, but if you watch a few videos of Bill Whittle on YouTube, it seems to me that he has the right idea about these sorts of things.

401

135 being angry is better than being smart
Posted by: ace at September 12, 2013 02:31 PM (/IWYB)


------------------

"Being pretty is better than both of those."

 

Yes, but I can't keep relying on that.  One of these days, my good looks are going to fade.

402

Progressives view life through the same lens as primitives, seeing a god, fairy, or demon behind every phenomenon. Few progressives have ever accomplished much of actual value in life. Even when they have achieved some mild success, their village shamans and elders have drummed into them that they didn't didnÂ’t actually accomplish anything; it was simply the result of the tribe bequeathing them with whatever they have. Failure is likewise excused as being the fault of non-believers who pray to false gods or worship the demon Bush.

They never examined their miserable existence; never felt the pride of accomplishment or character. In turn, the village elders had succeeded masterfully in hiding their own fat bellies, telling them that it was for the good of the tribe that they starved while their masters gorged themselves on food they didnÂ’t sow and lived in huts they didnÂ’t build. Somehow, theyÂ’re believed.

Conservatives were too wise to believe these superstitions. Or perhaps they were simply too skeptical to believe that a Bush could be to blame for all oneÂ’s woes. Maybe they planted a garden one year and resented the fat, pushy tribesman who helped himself to the crop. Maybe they spent every night for a year polishing a dull rock into a shiny gem and saw no reason why it should be used as a jewel in the chiefÂ’s crown.

In the end, the conservative farmerÂ’s realized that when the villagers had no incentive to learn to farm but could grow quite fat on the farmerÂ’s labor, the village began a quick march to extinction.

403 395 John Morris,

Take your word as gospel....

you think the Malor "well we can't do anything until we own 75% of the levers" schtick will keep Donkey from wreckin g the car?

I don't.

The answer is let them go over the cliff at 185 or stop the damn car.

I am done supporting the "we'll go over at 5 MPH and WIN!" routine from the GOP

404 We need a Sons of Liberty Party

405 right, it promises to take away limitations on freedom. Who'd want that?
Posted by: ace
.......................
Oh yeah.. right.. except the more conservative the candidate, the more they espouse taking away rights to abortion, etc., make it their hill to die on about who can marry who, sexual orientation in the military.

The shit that comes out of the mouths of these old white conservative guys is what kills us.

You and I know that conservatives mainly want less government interference.  But that is not how we are perceived by a good portion of the general public.  The areas conservatives focus on to limit freedoms are very popular issues with majorities of the public.

These stands poison the well, so to speak.

It's hard to convince someone that taking your side will lead to more freedoms when your colleague is proposing forced vaginal probes.

406 Lets compromise. Can we just let Delaware Burn? Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 12, 2013 03:12 PM (OWjjx) ---------- Yes. Yes, we can. Matches, gasoline, ready to go.

407 @411 BC Not a snarky question, but what is the magical third way? The GOP isn't giving us one. Starting a third party is the way to defeat, we're told. I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason.

408 >Is the GOP going to fight or just let things continue until the crisis comes of it's own momentum?I think we know the answer.

Posted by: steevy at September 12, 2013 03:10 PM (9XBK2)

their main concern is reserving good seats in the lifeboat

409 how is it infeasible to press for the delay of a law that the public wants outright repealed?

Riddle me this: boehner's going to demand cuts in spending for the debt ceiling -- and those cuts are unpopular -- but he won't demand stopping spending on ObaamCare, a cut which actually is popular?

There's nothing wrong with demanding it as a negotiation tactic and to make a political statement, so long as everyone understands that is the real purpose.

Unfortunately, the end result will be another stream of invectives over how the GOP 'caved' when the effort almost inevitably fails.

The public is schizophrenic.  You know this.

They say the government is too big and spends too much, but try to make cuts and they'll scream bloody murder.  They'll say they're against Obamacare, but will get angry (at Republicans) their favorite park temporarily closes due to a govt shutdown or if their 25 year old "child" is no longer covered by their insurance policy.

Make demands?  Sure, go ahead.  The public is also opposed to giant pythons eating kittens, but no amount of pleading by the kitten is going to convince the snake not to eat it.

If there's an argument to be made that Obama and Reid would agree to an Obamacare delay, it's going to take more than citing a couple polls to convince them.

410 >>>One can oppose both LiB and the status quo quite easily.

And quite delusionally.

The majority rules, and the majority is against us, and the majority is growing, and the only way to change that in any run of time is to make that majority suffer, a lot, at the hands of their own machinations; So they relearn what was lost in the decades of ease following WWII.

Let the Gods of the Copybook Headings have their way for a while. And bring with them the implements of their lessons. I can logically and rationally see no other way to shift society back to the values that built this civilization. So my only chance at saving it in the long run, is let it burn in the short run.

411

The national Republican Party is merely a wing of the Statist Party.  The national Republican Party essentially stands for everything the Democrat Party stands for.  Except they lie to their constituency about what they stand for.

 

In that act of deception they are more insidious than the Democrat Party.

 

All my efforts will be towards an Article V convention.  The national Republican Party is the enemy.   

412 >Not a snarky question, but what is the magical third way? The GOP isn't giving us one. Starting a third party is the way to defeat, we're told. I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason.

Posted by: RS at September 12, 2013 03:14 PM (YAGV/)

nah, this is just a pie fight right now

413 Flatbush Joe: "...Sometimes good people have terribly immoral ideas."

The thing is it's just a way of cutting to the chase. "That which cannot continue, won't." The Democratic Republic we have cannot continue at its current trajectory. Maybe you can slow it down a bit, but the path is indelible. The fix, as it were, is to speed up to get to the destination ASAP and rebuild.

"Immoral" is in the eye of the beholder. Some might argue - and AllenG has - that crashing and burning now gives him and his generation the opportunity to fix things for his children so they don't have to suffer the crash. The crash is coming; who gets to fix it is the only question.

Conclusion: Not so immoral after all.

414 Okay, back to the topic:

I'm not opposed to Hope and Change in our movement.  Ace is surely right in the sense that a party without a positive 'dream' is a party without an animating rationale save being "the other guy."  (This is what the GOP essentially was reduced to between FDR and Reagan.)

Which is why I ask Ace, and others here: why then is the #1 Meme of Conservatives currently "Let it burn, salt the earth, we're doomed, fuck it all?"

Can someone explain to me what prospect of hope pushing THIS angle offers to either the base or the larger voting public?  Because, near as I can tell, this isn't a positive program for change so much as it is a statement that conservatives hate this country, its voters who cast a vote for Obama, and would rather see us all suffer painfully for the sins of their stupidity than try to win back the fight step-by-step. 

It's part and parcel in my mind with this newfound belief that only Drastic Win Everything Instantly Permanently solutions are acceptable (even though they're impossible, except when Mark Levin or Ted Cruz needs to increase conservative mindshare), whereas incrementally moving the ball downfield (which can be accomplished, but requires discipline) is merely a sellout.  I get it in a sense: people think we're "so far behind in the game" that only Hail Mary passes are going to work.  Simply rushing for five yards is the same as losing to these people. 

Except here's the thing: American life isn't football.  Forget what people are saying about "inevitable demographic change" or even the ruthless math of our debt issues: the American polity doesn't have a game clock like football does.  EVERYTHING has to be done, save great and historically unpredictable anomalies (e.g., sadly, Obamacare - whose catastrophic memory is perhaps distorting historical understanding because of its recency), on a more incremental level.

The Big Dream is something a party and a movement needs -- I have it and believe in it myself -- but being panicked, angry, and unrealistic about the field of play, and how to advance the ball downfield is merely a recipe for further apocalyptic defeats...especially when you're already down by a couple of touchdowns. 

That, to me, is what is happening with this "government shutdown" crap.  We actually have a situation where Obama and his cadres are demoralized and drained.  The party and the media have lost confidence - finally! - in the competence of Team Obama.  They're already writing off the chances of any significant legislative action for the rest of his term.  The goal now should be to maximize gains in 2014 and set up the best shot at 2016.  Everything else is a distraction from that.  Win big in those two elections, and then we can do what Obama and Dems did to us in 2008-2009: rape the Dems in reverse.  (Of course, we'll probably end up suffering huge losses in 2018 if we do that, just as they did -- the fact is, drastic unilateral political moves inevitably invoke backlash.)  

But anything which makes good outcomes in 2014/2016 -- or the prevention of an immigration/amnesty bill in 2014/2015, for that matter -- less likely is something I will oppose vehemently.  That includes a government shutdown which even its own proponents acknowledge is being done purely for purposes of theater.

415

I see no way to mitigate the disaster that is coming at us like a runaway train. The dems have already told us that ACA is a planned failure that is just looking for a place to land and the GOP are standing around watching. As for me I see no redeem qualities in todayÂ’s GOP. Yes, was see glimmers of hope from time to time, faint heartbeats of the GOPÂ’s old conservative movement, but too few and far between.  The only prudent route I see anymore is preparation to weather the storm as chaos will be the governing factor with what is left. And be prepared as best I/we can to pick of the pieces of what is left and move forward with our lifes.

416 Those limitations on murders, man, all those old white KILLJOYS want to enact, are killing us in elections.

People fundamentally don't like abortion, but are afraid to oppose it because of the ferocity and clout of feminism. But their strength will wane.

417 It's just a cheap shot. Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 02:47 PM (n/+FT) And it's a hoot that you would to object to such a thing!

418 The progs only think they can control the results of Kaboom. The problem with that thinking that Chaos is the oldest thing in the universe and old age and treachery beat youth and beauty every time.

419 And? No really, and what? Whether or not the other side is playing fair has nothing to do with the rightness (or wrongness) of the underlying fight. Sometimes you elect not to fight now, so that you have strength to fight when you have hope of winning. See also: Houston, General Samuel. But that choice not to fight now *will* lead to it burning. As I've said. To me it's not a choice of *if* it will burn, but when. And I'd rather it be a controlled burn- with us deciding when- so that our kids and grandkids have a better chance of a better life. Do you want to see your daughters subjects under ObamaCare, begging their Government Lords for healthcare? Because that's where this is going, and the reversal requires a conflagration.

420 is anybody else having problems on Twitter or is it just me?

421 Posted by: JackStraw

Have fun, hippie.

422 OT:  John Kerry making a horse of himself.

http://tinyurl.com/krwcxch

423 Not a snarky question, but what is the magical third way? The GOP isn't giving us one. Starting a third party is the way to defeat, we're told. I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason. Posted by: RS at September 12, 2013 03:14 PM (YAGV/) There's nothing magical about it. It's down in the mud, brawling, thankless hard work. It's the kind of shit that Truman North is doing right now. It's working from the local level on up. Removing financial support of the part in general and applying specifically to candidates. It's about being involved and finding and supporting the candidate that most squarely matches up with your own beliefs. It's all the stuff that's talked about around here all the time. It's not sexy, it's not quick and there's no guarantee of success. But I'll take it over what we've got now or quitting.

424 The main Twitter page loads up.

425 I understand the anger. We are losing. And the demographic trends suggest we will, most likely, continue to lose. But we might not. And even if we keep losing at the national level it worth it to fight to preserve as much as we can of liberty and civilization at the state, city, town, and neighborhood level. It sucks being a hated minority. But that just might be our lot in life. Things can always get worse. I believe we have a moral responsibility to do what we can to make things better, or at least try to prevent them from getting even worse. Sometimes the best you can do is limit damage. That's still worthwhile and noble. If a museum burns down, it's still noble when some people rush in to save what they can. It's still noble to fight the fire so only 90% or 50% or 30% of the the treasures inside are destroyed. People naturally respect the firefighter for preserving what he can.

426 Change "Let it Burn" to "What Can't Go On, Won't." LiB is the acceptance that government at all levels are broke, ($$$) & no one cares to fix it. $123 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. I can't cut a check to pay it off. Can you? At this point, it can't be fixed. The math is too great. Therefore, the pension checks that are written that can't be paid for, eventually, won't be paid for. You can get out there, stamp your feet, whine, & piss & moan about how unfair it is, (& get plowed over), or you can get out of they way & take steps to protect you & yours. Hence LiB.

427 Hella of a knife: http://goo.gl/587J07 Yet the top online story is Terry Jones. How many heads did Jones cut off? None!

428 We need a Sons of Liberty Party

Posted by: imp at September 12, 2013 03:14 PM (L9AnB)

 

Unfortunately, I think we will end up with a Sons of Anarchy party

429 Maybe a server farm flooded?

430

damn sock

 

431 The whole we can't fight we'll only lose attitude is pathetic. You might lose some fights but you still make the bastards bleed for ground. Make Obama go on TV and explain that he is not going to sign a continuing resolution because it doesn't fund Obamacare. Make him the bad guy because he he is going to do something unpopular because he insists on having his way on an even more unpopular issue. This should not be hard to do even with dem control of the press. And people are starting to realize that Obama is basically a dick with ears, so now is the time to make him do some unpopular shit.

Undermining your opponents strengths is always a good idea. That's why the dems blew so hard on the Bush lied horn--he scored high with people on honesty, so the dems had to take that away from him. Obama's strength is "likeability" (I don't see it myself but whatever) take that away from him. Make him be a prick to the public at large and then watch the dems implode.

432

Some interesting points.  The GOP dream is what?   Our last two candidates basically said, "sure flip a coin, the other guys not that bad" and were constantly forced to disown the more embarrassing members of the movement.

 

I always bitch about the mechanics though:

The last two guys had terrible GOTV.

For some reason, the mass importation of naturally conservative 3rd world welfare recipients has only caused red states to turn hard blue.

For some reason, the GOP is cool with the illegal harassment of conservatives and conservative groups by the public sector unions, notably whatever it was the IRS did to the tea party.

cough cough, voter fraud (which doesn't exist, except apparently in rural Colorado).

If the GOP doesn't take care of these little things, then the big things start slipping away.

I've mentioned that, gee, the GOP of the 80's had ideas, ideas that people could reflexively spit back in the face of hate filled liberals.  At least W in 2004 had the quote "voted for it before I voted against it" to use.  Now, you have to be the one true conservative out there to even understand basic GOP positions.

That's a problem you guys

433

Posted by: Cato at September 12, 2013 03:16 PM (oixKh)

 

 

Worse, they don't understand that in almost every revolution, its the ARMED who make the decisions as to what comes after...

 

But, IMO, that's why they have actively sought to destroy any Conservative types in the Military... (think about it, we went from No Gays at all, to a Gay Celebration Month in the Military, in ONE YEAR).

434 >>Which is why I ask Ace, and others here: why then is the #1 Meme of Conservatives currently "Let it burn, salt the earth, we're doomed, fuck it all?"


If your premise is retarded why read the rest?

435 53 Leftists didn't just shit on the Demcrats and say to hell with them. They said, from their perspective, we need better, more left-wing Democrats. And they worked on how to fund and elect them and how to purge those not left-wing enough. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:21 PM (ZPrif) Right on. That's why many of us--tea partiers, Republican Liberty Caucus members, conservative activists, libertarians--have held our nose and joined our local party hierarchies to change the party from the inside out, and from the bottom up. The GOP wants a new base. Well, the base wants a new GOP.

436 Not a snarky question, but what is the magical third way? The GOP isn't giving us one. Starting a third party is the way to defeat, we're told. I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason.

Posted by: RS at September 12, 2013 03:14 PM (YAGV/)

 

You can go to the 'everyman for themselves'   way which I have embraced for the last year and a half.   Prepare for the worst,  hope for the best.  

437 440 is anybody else having problems on Twitter or is it just me?

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 12, 2013 03:17 PM (8sCoq)

I got right on but "Is it down now" will give you more information based on the url you enter.

http://tinyurl.com/7v8d5ka

438 Not a snarky question, but what is the magical third
way? The GOP isn't giving us one. Starting a third party is the way to
defeat, we're told. I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason.

***

Always before in American history, a leader has arisen to meet the need.  That's all I've got.  Naked optimism.

439 >>> A guy who couldn't beat a witch who doesn't fap would have lost the general.

sure... he was ahead by 15 points and was so strong that top contenders didn't bother running (allowing a no-name state senator to run), but it's fun to Deny Reality, because Denying Reality is how we Demonstrate Our Fidelity to Principle.

440 #438

This is why Alinksy is an idiot. Such radicals can figure out how to work the system to gain power and a strong arm to coerce, but what they are doing is basically digging with nuclear bombs. Yes, if you do the most undermining, vicious and unprincipled things you can seize power and defeat your political opponents. But can you control the results? No, you can't. This is the same reason why the cops don't use a brick of TNT to open someone's door.

441 As I've said. To me it's not a choice of *if* it will burn, but when. And I'd rather it be a controlled burn- with us deciding when- so that our kids and grandkids have a better chance of a better life. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 03:16 PM (/PCJa) The fact that you think you, or anyone else can control the burn, is far more delusional than anything I've said.

442 247 - Coming from a guy who knows cheap. It may be a cheap shot, but if it's the only shot you got, you shoot it. Posted by: BurtTC at September 12, 2013 02:50 PM (TOk1P) The Sum total of my experience with JeffB is his usage of the cheap shot. Out of the blue, stab you in the back sorts of attacks are his specialty. Fuck any consideration for him.

443 Lets compromise. Can we just let Delaware Burn?

Works for me.  It's a big eyesore on I-95 that charges you toll in both directions.

444 Immigration is the last stand. Hard to come up with an effective strategy when a plurality of the electorate is LIV + Third World. I denounce myself.

445 There's nothing wrong with demanding it as a negotiation tactic and to make a political statement, so long as everyone understands that is the real purpose. If everybody knows it's an empty gesture that is only for negotiation, that's useless. It's not going to make a political statement or get you a better deal. It's just a waste of everybody's time.

446 "...the reversal requires a conflagration."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 03:16 PM (/PCJa)

Absolutely not. And by saying that you do a disservice to those who believe that "Let It Burn" is a rational belief.

The reversal of the declining fortunes of America could be accomplished in a decade, with a competent president and a compliant congress.

The conflagration is undoubtedly coming because we are insufficiently organized and motivated to elect such a man.

But it is not a fait accompli.

447 >>>I'd love to leave Team LIB if I heard a good reason.

LiB
Because Fuck It! That's why!

Seriously. It has some chance of success in the long run. Other options have much less or no chance of success in the long run.  There are only three negative end states for me that I consider worth weighing.

1. I'm dead.
2. My family is dead.
3. We live in totalitarianism for the next X years.  Were X is beyond my, or anyone I know's, lifetime.

If you put number 3 at the least desirable, LiB becomes the preferable option as it has the best chance to avert that outcome. Albeit not a good chance, just better than the alternatives.

448

Burn it down
Scatter the stones
Salt the earth where it once stood

and the middle class

449 But anything which makes good outcomes in 2014/2016 -- or the prevention of an immigration/amnesty bill in 2014/2015, for that matter -- less likely is something I will oppose vehemently. That includes a government shutdown which even its own proponents acknowledge is being done purely for purposes of theater.
Posted by: Jeff B.
..........
Well said.

450 451 The whole we can't fight we'll only lose attitude is pathetic. You might lose some fights but you still make the bastards bleed for ground. Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at September 12, 2013 03:19 PM (QcHDq) ------------ Just bears repeating.

451
Always before in American history, a leader has arisen to meet the need. That's all I've got. Naked optimism.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 12, 2013 03:20 PM (XUKZU)

The leaders have tried to arise but people don't want them.

ie Palin, Bachman, Rand Paul

452 You can go to the 'everyman for themselves' way which I have embraced for the last year and a half. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Posted by: polynikes at September 12, 2013 03:20 PM (m2CN7)

 

 

That's where I am.

453 You are making one mistake. The progs want it to collapse even more than you do. You seem to thing we will be allowed to rebuild after the Kaboom! But the progs aren't bringing on the Kaboom because they are stupid, they are carefully bringing about the Kaboom because they want the Kaboom. They need the Kaboom. Kaboom is part of the plan. Yes, but they need the Kaboom at a certain time, and in a certain way. Thus "burn it down" rather than "let it burn." If it all blows up before they're ready, we have a chance. If they're allowed to dictate the time and nature of the coming conflagration, then we don't.

454 @451. Oh, it's a lost cause. Our current government, anyway. Liberty and the Republic... Those are forever, even if under different flags. Pick what you're fighting for and what you're trying to preserve, you can't have it all.

455

 I understand the anger. We are losing. And the demographic trends suggest we will, most likely, continue to lose.

again,  we have 30 governorships and the House.  We expect to pick up more seats in the Senate.  If we keep saying we are doomed, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.  

456 #465

I prefer to own the labels. I'm as sexist as my wife will let me get away with (which is pretty much!) I'm as racist as I feel the need to be, and as ageist as anyone's business.

Since when were such thought crimes worthy of fear?

457

A guy who couldn't beat a witch who doesn't fap would have lost the general.

 

That's a funny line, but Castle was a former governor and rep.  He already had won  statewide elections, and would have won again. 

458 443 BC1981,

Hello the Tea Party called...

you know what fuck it...

The chicken is getting screwed by other folk I am just gonna spend the rest of my life protecting what I can for the boy...here or abroad...

we are a "party" that can't sell cheap energy....

MP4 was correct on how the media needs handled it is not polite, nor proper but is doctrinally sound according the CoIn playbook....

the media musty pay a price for their lies or we will never win.

Since too many on our side enjoy the media's double bind on our party we're doomed...

since we're doomed I aim to start making what firebreaks I can....

you ask we protect the entire nation from the fire by doing the same failing thing over and over again never once attacking the structural force multipliers the media and schools give donkey....

I'd prefer to start preparing for the "reward" of their retardation being made policy at full speed.

459 @474. Good thinking, but I still think they've vastly overestimated their ability to control chaos.

460 #474

Timothy Leary.

Wanted to go out with a bang, commit suicide in a big event.

Died 'randomly' before he could do the deed.

461 But it's clear you actually mean it. Which is horrible and evil. Preserving civilization is a worthy goal. Wishing for things to burn and society to crumble is profoundly immoral. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 12, 2013 02:54 PM (ZPrif) I see burning down the rot as the only means of saving the good.

462

But we might not. And even if we keep losing at the national level it worth it to fight to preserve as much as we can of liberty and civilization at the state, city, town, and neighborhood level.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

This we much!  It's really up to the states now to keep  the Constitution and it's freedom alive.  CO just proved that this week.

 

DC, as it is now, is hopeless.  There!  I said it!

463 People naturally respect the firefighter for preserving what he can.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

We're not being ask to save inanimate objects; we're being asked to save pyromaniacs from their own pathologies.

It can't be done without destroying ourselves in the process.

Look how well Compassionate Conservatism turned out for Bush.

The only immoral act here is to believe that we must save the Left from the consequences of their own actions.

Dems: Hey kid, look at this fire.
Child Electorate: Oo, pretty fire! Wanna touch.
GOP: Wait! Lemme get you a step stool first!

464

I just don't get how conservatives are both a) quitting the party and encouraging others to do the same, and b) wondering why and getting angry about the fact that the party is becoming less conservative.

 

 

465 "that comes out of the mouths of these old white conservative guys is what kills us." OT: I am so sick of this being the one racist, sexist, and ageist that you can openly say anywhere and no one bats an eye at it. How have we let "Old White Man" become something that immediately insults and discounts your position? Can you imagine writing off someone's policy position with simple phrases like "Well, she's a woman, so..." or "Well what do you expect from an Asian, amIrite?" At the very least, everyone would stare at you and say: "Um... Go on." Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 12, 2013 03:21 PM (tWmgi) Yeah, I've never understood this. Like there's something inherently wrong in being old (we all want to die young, right?) or white. Plus there's lots of old white men on the left, too. It's just so stupid, especially when it's said by white males. Dissing your race doesn't make you seem cool or garner respect from others.

466 You know what, fuck this. 

I write short, snarky posts where I substitute constructive arguments for quick, high-handed insults of people who can't see what I view as common sense -- and people justifiably think I'm an arrogant asshole who hurts his own arguments by being too rude.

I take the time to write out longer, reasoned, posts where I consciously avoid insulting people and make my arguments carefully -- and the same fucking assholes who tell me I'm too brusque and rude instead write "tl; dr" and "I saw a long post and I skipped it, no surprise it was by you."

Such bullshit.

467 Yeah?

Amigo Grande! A Schumer/Rubio/Graham/McCain production that Ryan, Boner, and Cantor loved...

I don't think cause and effect works like you think Tiger...

Simple question:  Did it reach Obama's desk, or did it not reach Obama's desk.

Followup question:  Are Republicans or Democrats primarily responsible for that result?

468 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 12, 2013 02:58 PM (0q2P7) Well said.

469 Also, I tend to write immensely long blocks of text, and figure that nobody will even bother to read them unless I throw a few "fucks" and ALLCAPS PHRASES and emphasized italics in their for visual variety. ;-)
Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 03:01 PM

No, it's not caps or lack thereof

My brain functions in a flowchart like a Terminator

1. Reading long text is laborious
2. Will I find the text profound? Yes No
3. Will I find the text funny Yes No
4. Is it another my party right or wrong post from JeffB? Yes No

Come down off the cross, people need the wood

470 318 Let It Burn , to me, is like saying Let the Sun Rise. Posted by: eleven at September 12, 2013 02:58 PM (KXm42) "Let there be light!" ?

471 #487

It takes some effort to be concise and yet not flippant, but it is worth it.

472 sure... he was ahead by 15 points and was so strong that top contenders didn't bother running (allowing a no-name state senator to run), but it's fun to Deny Reality, because Denying Reality is how we Demonstrate Our Fidelity to Principle. There was a time period where no Democrat wanted to run against incumbent Scott Brown - his approval rate was sky high and he had a massive warchest. He lost to a fake Indian from Oklahoma. Reality is that Castle lost the primary. He wasn't as strong a candidate as people supposed.

473

maybe push back against the hate against old white males.  Hey, we built the country you fuckers.

you don't see us trying to move to your piece of shit countries.

474  GOP, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?

475

Excellent piece, ace.   I haven't read all the comments, but I wanted to respond to this passage in particular:

 

This is why the Tea Party continues to inspire passion while the GOP inspires little else but resignation. The Tea Party might be wrong about most things. I believe the GOP thinks they are wrong about most things, especially strategy. (And, honestly, the Tea Party's strategic thinking is not its strongest attribute.)

 

I think we all need to remember that "The Tea Party" is not a party at all.  It is a movement.   There may be "Tea Party" organizations, but there is no central Tea Party structure.    It's not even the "Tea Party;"   it's the "TEA Party," as in    the acronym for     "Taxed Enough Already."   It started as a bunch of likeminded individuals, and while it has gained more structure over the years,   with individual groups coming together on a regional basis -- and less so nationally -- it is still a movement, not a party.     The "Tea Party Caucus" in Congress purport to be members of this likeminded group of individuals, but that's as far as the    affiliation goes.

 

Where you critique its strategic thinking I think you're neglecting to remember that this is not a cohesive unit with a single central platform.     The Tea Party movement    IS    the  Hope for Change of the fiscally conservative portion of the GOP (and Democrat!) base.    What both parties are doing    is   calling that    strident portion of their bases      "extremists"    and      "zealots"      rather than     idealists.     This is expected of the blinkered Dems, but from the GOP it's tantamount to the Salem Witch Trials.   The GOP does not like    its conservative base; it wants a new base; and so it sends the loud, idealistic members of its current base to    be   burned at the stake    out of spite, greed and hubris.   "Once those loudmouths are out of the way we can gobble up their sympathetic voters.  Where else are they going to go?"

 

It's frustrating and    infuriating.

476 I just don't get howconservatives are both a) quitting the party and encouraging others to do the same, and b) wondering why and getting angry about the fact thatthe party is becoming less conservative. Good point.

477

Just think, if we had Mike Castle this would have been avoided.

 

Those Tea Partiers just can't get with the program and send up winners like Romney and McCain, and leaders like Boehner and McConnell. 

478 I believe in continuing to fight. That's the difference.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at September 12, 2013 03:05 PM (da5Wo)

Shit's gonna happen whether you fight or not.

479 Jeff B., I'm being a busybody here, but you somehow come across as really arrogant on almost all your posts, even the ones I agree with. If you toned that down, people may not dislike you so much. But then you may not care about not being disliked, which is fine.

480 There's room on the cross for you.....

481 I see burning down the rot as the only means of saving the good.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 12, 2013 03:24 PM (bb5+k)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

It's why farmers and ranchers burn pastures in the winter.  The new growth in the spring comes back  two-fold. 

 

There are many references throughout the ages about the cleansing power of fire.  Sometimes shit just has to burn.

482 488 Hollowpoint,

Uh hey "genius" you may have an eleventy point IQ but uh...

I can read a fucking story.

http://tinyurl.com/omesawm

so yeah there's the GOP fucking a doorknob....

483 >>>The fact that you think you, or anyone else can control the burn, is far more delusional than anything I've said.

Controlled burn is possible. But not by our side. That's the prog plan. They plan to burn unemployment to permanently high rates and therefore State dependence, get rid of Aristotle, Locke and Madison, erase the history of the free world and rewrite it as one of oppression. All the trappings of a collapsed civilization from want and suffering, to ignorance of the past and present to the loss of wisdom are there, just implemented slowly. A controlled burning of Western Civilization.

LiB is conceptualized as we make it into a wildfire while

1. Our numbers are at their highest (Yes they are a bigger % now than they will likely be any time in the future)
2. While the nature of the loss *may* motivate some of the rest of the people to take notice of what the ramifications of the death of the Western way of life means for the future, because they have first hand knowledge of the Western way of life, something that will be endangered in 20 years and extinct in 40.

It's a huge gamble yes. But when facing certain defeat on one path, uncertainty is a bargain.

484

Look how well Compassionate Conservatism turned out for Bush.

 

He won twice.   It was a slogan that was created to attract independents that have been brainwashed to believe Republicans were hard hearted.    Conservativsm is a hard sell.   It requires some immediate sacrifice for future prosperity.   

485 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 12, 2013 03:15 PM (0q2P7) Once again, well said.

486 #504

I'm just hoping for clean water and heat in the winter in 20 years.

I wonder what my parents aspired to at my age?

487
Incidentally, JeffB. - this is why everyone thinks you're an asshole. Because you're an asshole.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 12, 2013 02:20 PM (CJjw5)

 

 

This is why I'm proud to be a basic recruit in the Jeff Imperial Army and would never take a Flag level position in the JeffB Army.

488 495 Michael Corleone,

I think amnesty is when we'll release Al Neri....

489 Posted by: Paul at September 12, 2013 03:25 PM (JM48I)

I think that is backwards, I think that it is that conservatives realized that the repubs finally had left them for different pastures.

490 505 Polynikes,

Uh it is why we are fucked...he spent like no one except well Obama

491 If the GOP had ever won a government shutdown battle - hell, if we had ever broke even, or even lost a close one - it would be one thing.  But we haven't, we won't, and we can't, and it is frankly just stupid to try to do it over ObamaCare.

Obama and the Senate will never go along with defunding.  It's their ONLY "achievement" in five years.  Obama will shut down essential services before he ever concedes, he doesn't care who suffers.  We cannot win, and it only damages us to try because we ALWAYS get the blame.  Every.  Single. Time.

If you think Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are out spending millions on ads to get you to "sign a petition" and not just building their mailing lists for future fundraising, well, don't leave home without your helmet.

492 I saw a comment the other day about how a delay with Immigration Reform was as good as a win.

No it isn't. A goddamn win is a win.

A delay or an escape has value only if you take the opportunity to get your shit together and come back and win. Dunkirk was not a victory.

493 "Jeff B., I'm being a busybody here, but you somehow come across as really arrogant on almost all your posts.... But then you may not care about not being disliked, which is fine."

Of course, being a combative jerk who doesn't care what anyone thinks works better when you're urging other people to stand up and fight for their principles without caring so much what anyone thinks, and not so much when you represent The Chickenshit Gang.

494 >>>487

Welcome to "Writing For An Audience On The Internet 101". Skip class if you find the material too hard.

495

The primaries determine who the best candidates are. If you don't like the system change it. The New England Patriots lost in the Playoffs, but they would have been a much better team to represent the AFC in the Superbowl. But they lost in the playoffs. 

496 >>>But then you may not care about not being disliked, which is fine.

I don't want to be disliked.  Nobody wants to be disliked (except, I dunno, sociopaths or people who truly have no use for other human beings).  I want to be as liked as much as the next person out there. 

But.  But.  I'm not going to change or hide my views about things in order to be liked.  (If we were all at a party I wouldn't hammer on about things I disagree with, obviously, but this is a forum for conservative political debate not a social event.)  What's the point of that?  So I figure that, since the positions I've taking on a lot of issues of long-term strategy around here since 2008 or so have more or less guaranteed hatred and attacks and isolation, then why bother trying to be all beta and please-don't-hurt-me? 

The arrogance which you perceive is one part Authentic Jeff B. Internet Style, and three parts Defensive Posture Of A Guy Who Knows He's Walking Into A Group Pounding On Any Given Thread.

I mean, seriously, chique: people regularly insult me in the most vulgar terms on threads where I don't even post and have no relation to whatsoever.  That's been going on for years here.  I live with it, but really now -- you think that isn't going to make someone a little more prickly? 

497 510 Posted by: Paul at September 12, 2013 03:25 PM (JM48I)

I think that is backwards, I think that it is that conservatives realized that the repubs finally had left them for different pastures.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 12, 2013 03:32 PM (sj9LN)

Well, in the absence of some kind of voter fraud, it sure does seem as though quite a few people didn't vote last go round.  Maybe the republicans analyzed this and decided to dump the Conservatives.

I didn't read much after the election, turned off all the talk radio hucksters and I wasn't alone.  A lot of folks found the sports call in shows again and began ignoring politics.  People were emotionally demolished.  Some have only ventured back recently.  They don't want to fight the republicans, they want to break from them completely.

Wonder how much money they've lost from this sentiment?

498 Yeah, the Tea Party is a movement.  A movement our government is still trying to destroy.  Lois Lerner and all her pals, busy as beavers they are.

499 If it all blows up before they're ready, we have a chance. If they're allowed to dictate the time and nature of the coming conflagration, then we don't. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 12, 2013 03:22 PM (/PCJa) If they achieve sufficient time to indoctrinate the army.

500

500 -

 

He's starved for attention.  He gets it whatever way he can.  Self-respect, or any respect for anyone else doesn't seem to enter into the equation. 

501

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 03:38 PM (n/+FT)

 

Come on Jeff.  Even your self deprecating  attempts are arrogant sounding.  That's a talent right there.   But I agree,  internet interaction  is  not  the best judgement  of someone's real life persona .

502 I take the time to write out longer, reasoned, posts where I consciously avoid insulting people and make my arguments carefully -- and the same fucking assholes who tell me I'm too brusque and rude instead write "tl; dr" and "I saw a long post and I skipped it, no surprise it was by you." Such bullshit. Posted by: Jeff B. at September 12, 2013 03:26 PM (n/+FT) A bon chat bon rat.

503 Somebody get a ladder and a pair of pliers.

504 I understand and sympathize with the impulse to quit the party. I am more disgusted with the GOP than anyone else. But starting a new national party is a huge undertaking. It's like opening your Tucker plant in Detroit in the 40s next to GM and Ford, flush with cash after WWII. Anybody stop to think of what the GOP would look like if the defectors joined the party apparatus, instead of just registering?

505 >>>Come on Jeff. Even your self deprecating attempts are arrogant sounding.

C'mon, Polynikes -- wouldn't you actually be just a little bit disappointed if they weren't?  True humility from me would be more jarring and whiplash inducing than every heel-turn in the history of professional wrestling combined.

506 504>>> The fact that you think you, or anyone else can control the burn, is far more delusional than anything I've said.

Controlled burn is possible. But not by our side. That's the prog plan. They plan to burn unemployment to permanently high rates and therefore State dependence, get rid of Aristotle, Locke and Madison, erase the history of the free world and rewrite it as one of oppression. All the trappings of a collapsed civilization from want and suffering, to ignorance of the past and present to the loss of wisdom are there, just implemented slowly. A controlled burning of Western Civilization.

LiB is conceptualized as we make it into a wildfire while

1. Our numbers are at their highest (Yes they are a bigger % now than they will likely be any time in the future)
2. While the nature of the loss *may* motivate some of the rest of the people to take notice of what the ramifications of the death of the Western way of life means for the future, because they have first hand knowledge of the Western way of life, something that will be endangered in 20 years and extinct in 40.

It's a huge gamble yes. But when facing certain defeat on one path, uncertainty is a bargain.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at September 12, 2013 03:30 PM (0q2P7)


agreed

507 He won twice.

Posted by: polynikes

Oh, right. All that matters is winning ... and leaving office with the national party completely discredited and toxic.

I'm not seeing the good part.

508 ...Well, in the absence of some kind of voter fraud,..." The other thing you can do is join your local/state "True the Vote" organization, or Voter Integrity Project, or whatever the call it in your area, to get the dead people, pets, and illegals off the voter rolls. Self-government is not something that can be outsourced. We're going to have to get involved and get our hands dirty ourselves, whether in the GOP or in a third party.

509 Oh, right. All that matters is winning ... and leaving office with the national party completely discredited and toxic. I'm not seeing the good part. Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 12, 2013 03:45 PM (s9AKD) He won HIS political battles by sacrificing the rest of us. Thanks George.

510 When I  have adverse interactions with my fake internet friends I never try to judge them by those interactions because I have a couple of great  friends who I can imagine we would end up threatning to kill each other if unknowingly we interacted on  an aos  comment  thread.     The reason being they are some of the best string pullers  I know.

511 Ace:  "This is why the Tea Party continues to inspire passion while the GOP inspires little else but resignation. The Tea Party might be wrong about most things. I believe the GOP thinks they are wrong about most things, especially strategy. (And, honestly, the Tea Party's strategic thinking is not its strongest attribute.)

But one thing the Tea Party understands, on a gut level, is that there must be a sense of idealism and optimism about the future, and idea that things could change if we just make them change."

 

 

I have read and re-read the post as you suggested, It still says "the tea party might be wrong about most things."  That would be your words.

 

On top of that, especially on top of that, after the posts from yesterday where great complaint was made about Obama's speech on how he handled Republicans, you did the exact same thing to Tea Partier's in yours, namely, you pooh-poohed their beliefs and instead focused as their best quality their sense of idealism and optimism about the future.

 

Equating that to your blog's posts from the other day, that would be like saying, I disagree with what you stand for but I applaud you on your strong belief of what you stand for.

This whole post is really a backhanded slap on the Tea Party in the same way Obama backhanded the bitter clingers the other day.  It's the same way the establishment GOP have been treating the Tea Party the last couple of years.

 

Propping up the Tea Party, as your post facially does, it says I disagree with the Tea Party and what they believe, but I believe they are needed for the GOP because the things I like about them are their passion for what they believe in......General drivel you can easily get from those in leadership of the Establishment right now.

 

 

512 The Twitter log in page comes up for me.

513 Maybe it's time for a re brand, look it worked for the libs, deblasio is calling himself a progressive and he's winning.

Perhaps conservative republicans should call themselves the "common sense wing of the republican party".   Or something like "the brass tacks wing of the republican party" cause "when it comes down to brass tacks, if you don't have a job, nothing else in your world is possible"

514 That's a deal, provided the conservative base decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys that publicly engage in masturbatory fantasies and idealistic poo-flinging.

When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored.
Posted by: Hollowpoint

Wrong, Insulting and Unfunny.  Where's that ignore script?

515

Everyone just wants to talk about futile gestures and no one actually wants to engage in one?

 

 

Come on guys!  Where's the old 'Can-Do' Moron Horde spirit!  When we get going on futile gestures epople head for the fallout  shelters!  Someone, grab the chicken!  We can do this!

516

there are two major things that will influence my vote in Nov.

1. ObamaCare - if the GOP does not defund this, if they give the Senate Dems their out, I'm done with the GOP for good.

 

2. Amnesty for illegals - if the GOP passes any form of what I think is amnesty, I'm done with them for good.

 

since the GOP does nothing to stop the progs. then they are progs as well.

I don't care if the GOP vanishes, fades, implodes or whatever, it can and will be replaced, the people running the Party now do not represent me and I am in the mood to punish them harshly for that.

what difference would it make now if the Dems control both houses of Congress and the WH for an election cycle or two?

not much

punish the GOP until it get's it's mind right, there is NOTHING left to loose.

517 535 That's a deal, provided the conservative base
decides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like zoo monkeys that
publicly engage in masturbatory fantasies and idealistic poo-flinging.

When elements of the base keeps demanding the impossible or unfeasible, of course they're going to be ignored.


Posted by: Hollowpoint

Wrong, Insulting and Unfunny. Where's that ignore script?

Posted by: DaveA at September 12, 2013 03:53 PM (DL2i+)

Sometimes it's better to know exactly how your are viewed, no holds barred.  It's actually quite freeing because it allows you to plan accordingly.  This is probably how McCain, Ms. Lindsey and Boehner and Cantor and probably some you'd be shocked to see, view the annoying conservative base who are constantly making them worry about their jobs despite the very successful gerrymandering they've accomplished.  (which, btw, I was taught in history class that gerrymandering was against the law but I guess since they realized they just can change the laws to suit their fancy, all bets with them are off)

518

Posted by: doug at September 12, 2013 03:51 PM (uJ8q7)

 

I think he's got you there ace.   You did say the Tea Party is wrong about most things. 

519 punish the GOP until it get's it's mind right, there is NOTHING left to loose.

Posted by: Shoey at September 12, 2013 03:56 PM (jdOk/)

I think most people left the GOP in the run up to the election.  We are becoming a county of independents as most people view us as having lost the two party system.  Yeah, the regular hard working exhausted joe and janes see this and abandon both parties, it's just that the dems are doing a much better job of covering it up.

520  (which, btw, I was taught in history class that gerrymandering was against the law but I guess since they realized they just can change the laws to suit their fancy, all bets with them are off)

Posted by: caustic at September 12, 2013 03:58 PM (/b8+5)


I seem to remember being taught that as well... we don't have a two-party system anymore, we are ruled by a single party - the Big Gov. Party.

time to break that party up.

521

I think "Let It Burn" tells a lot about a person.

 

 

It tells me that person comes from such a comfortable upbringing that person can afford to despise security and stability and embrace chaos and anarchy.  It is the opposite side of the coin to the "Ocuppy Wherever" crowd.  The fire will end up burning away the good as well as the bad.  Anyone who thinks it can be controlled or that it will lead to a Great Renewal or anything other than it would be a bloody, miserable disaster isn't thinking.

 

 

I usually scroll past the "LiB" posts because they are so self-refutingly stupid it isn't worth my time to look at them.  And now that I've had my say I will still scroll past those posts.

522

It tells me that person comes from such a comfortable upbringing that person can afford to despise security and stability and embrace chaos and anarchy

 

Either that, or it COULD  tell you that a person has enough wherewithal to make it on his own without the fear of losing the "safety net" kindly provided by our slave masters. 

523 I like how most of the things the establishment tells us are "impossible" and "unfeasible" are only impossible and unfeasible given that they are too unprincipled and cowardly to attempt them.

"Guys, guys, be reasonable! You need to think more strategically! Can't you see that we're a bunch of quivering ninnies who are terrified of confrontation and get cold sweats at the very thought of doing anything challenging or requiring any sort of sacrifice? What kind of unsophisticated bumpkin ideologues are you that you think we're even capable of such a thing? You really need to grow up!"

524 The tea party saw all of this coming, something about all those old wise grandmas being able to predict the future and for the most part be maddeningly right.

The young people, working at a job at a fraction of what their parents made, first job out of college and having the mortification of having to live at home and be on your dad's /mom's health insurance until you are 26 years old when you watched little house on the prairie and at 15 they had their own household and farm.  Looking at your college/graduate school/ professional school loans and realizing that they might take your entire life to pay off and having snarky conservatives say "it's your responsibility, why did you take the loans, you could have worked your way through, you are a dolt" when they know that you get a better job with a college education and they had no idea the economy wasn't coming back plus their college administrators convinced them it was worth taking on the loans as they would make so much money it was easy peasy to pay the loans off. They heard many of their parents professional friends brag about defaulting on their student loans and there being no consequences.  So GWB slipped in that little law saying your heirs are responsible for that debt, it cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy and then BO bought up all the student loan debt cause hey, it's a constant stream of income that cannot ever be discharged.

So yeah, they are starting to learn a valuable lesson and a lot of the dem emails are going into the trash bin so that's why the dems have started posting to fb pages.  A sign the dems aren't exactly having fun within their party either.

This is a golden opportunity for the republican party and the conservatives.  As I watch them leave these people out there, flapping in the wind, I realize they either don't care or they shouldn't call themselves the republican party, rather they should just label themselves as conservative democrats and move to the one party, take it or leave it, we'll give you two candidates from each wing, party.

525 Compliance and collaboration against the wishes and interests of your base is not a political strategy. It is a 'fucking gullible people over'. It is not intelligent in the short teem because the party is still losing and reviled. The middle ground is not attractive. Seeking it out is a waste of resources and moving left is a waste of party member's confidence and money. It is not intelligent in the long term because it shrinks the party and its influence. It is simply looting the slower and more fuzzy thinking end of the party base (the gullible and easily confused who vainly HATE to think of themselves as easy marks and suckers)of valuables before they too catch on and leave. It is betrayal.

526

I'm there.

I am sick to death of being screwed by the people who are supposed to be arguing our side.  But on issue after issue, our side gets screwed by our own people.   Most of the most radically liberal Supreme Court justices in the last fifty years were put there by Republicans:  Warren, Brennan, Stevens, Kennedy, Souter.

Health care and immigration are next issues the GOP leadersship will betray us on .  I know it in my marrow.

Boehner, McCain, McConnell?   Useless.

I had hope for Ryan and Christie.  Not anymore. 

Cruz and Rand are about it.  They are bound to disappoint.

There's only one party -- the incumbent party.

527 Nothing to LOSE. L-O-S-E.

Not "loose".

God, I hate that.

528 Was Al Greene in a primary, running against an incumbent Dem Senator in that SC election cycle? I think not. Posted by: mrp at September 12, 2013 03:01 PM (HjPtV) Mike Castle was not the incumbent. He was the only Republican who had successfully won elections in blue Delaware, but not an incumbent. He was punished for votes he had not taken, because O'Donnell was cute.

529 I haven't seen ace right about much since...2008 at least. And I still don't really understand the I'M EDGY IN YOUR FACE!... I'M EDGY IN YOUR FACE... I'M EDGY IN YOUR FACE!... WHOAH! SHOW SOME COMMON RESPECT YOU JERK! THIS INCIVILITY IS INTOLERABLE!...I'M EDGY IN YOUR FACE! beat the blog seems to follow.

530 I have no faith in Cruz or Paul. The party passed my red line long ago. I'm just biding my time till I can get out of the US. Stuck here for work for the moment.

531 548 Nothing to LOSE. L-O-S-E.

Not "loose".

God, I hate that.

Posted by: The Grammar Nazi at September 12, 2013 04:18 PM (YmPwQ)

I blame the spell checker

532 The night that Castle lost, the first person to call him for consolation was Obama.

"Nuff said.

533 If everything was fine among the dems/libs/left then second city would not have felt compelled to bring out the kickstarter video.  Help Kickstart World War III!  http://tinyurl.com/o3bhbca

After a while even the dullest bulb in the bunch realizes they've been had.

534 It tells me that person comes from such a comfortable upbringing that person can afford to despise security and stability and embrace chaos and anarchy Either that, or it COULD tell you that a person has enough wherewithal to make it on his own without the fear of losing the "safety net" kindly provided by our slave masters. Posted by: FITP at September 12, 2013 04:15 PM (zwQFM) Or that they just don't give fuck.

535 " 548 Nothing to LOSE. L-O-S-E. Not "loose". God, I hate that. " The ship is going down...the lifeboats are almost all gone, and OH MY GOD! man. These deck chairs are a huge mess! Stop lowering yourselves into the water! We have to do something!

536

Americans First.

 

Immigration? America First.  What does it do for Americans, how does it hurt Americans.

 

Foreign Policy? America First.  What does it do for Americans, how does it hurt Americans.

 

Economy? Americans First.  Does Obamacare, welfare, etc. do for Americans, how does it hurt.

 

Do it for the (American) children.

 

537 Oh, well, Obama called him. That says everything.

538

How can a member of the US Congress claim to represent illegal immigrants? Americans First.

 

539 Or that they just don't give fuck.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 12, 2013 04:30 PM (Y92Nd)

 

bingo!

540

Or that they just don't give fuck.

 

Or that their "give a fuck" has been relentlessly burned out by the people who were supposed to represent them.

541 Dogbert: I like to con people, and I like to insult people. I'll combine them! Dogbert (to the PHB): I'm here to consult you. PHB: Sounds demeaning and expensive. OK!

542 How can we let low skilled labor into a country where real unemployment is like 15-20%?  Americans First.

543 @557 I totally, totally agree. But Chuckie Lindberg and the America Firsters pretty much ruined the phrase. Other ways to brand this?

544

Everything needs to posed in through the lens of Americans First.  the GOP is the party of Americans First, so the Democratic Party is not the party of Americans First.  They are the party of "my group" first.

Americans First, new slogan.  Dumb.  Brief.  Pointed.  Accurate.  Fits on a bumper sticker.  End every observation of how the Democratic party's policies are killing America with "America First."

545 542 Mikey NTH,

I grew up poor, my family has a two combat tour deployment soldier for "comfortable easy security."

I know that I could drive across the country on minimum wage easy in 1989 and can't see the kids doing the same today....

Letting the mega Keynesian freeshit cannon melt down is my gift to my son's son to be.

546 Immigration will be your signal. Folks who give in when the Left flat out is in violation of the law will give in on any case where the media can make emotional pitches. And the media is always going to make emotional pitches. All there is to it.

You really need to just go ahead and cut the GOP's balls off *now*, in 2014, as a way to minimize the overall long term damage. They aren't going to be able to do much 2014-2016 anyway, so just give the national brand bare steerageway, and a clear indication they can go to blazes if they keep on the path they are. An intervention is required.

The GOP of today, as a national establishment (as much as such a collection of individuals is an establishment), is simply not up to this moment in history. Unfortunately, they are what can be immediately fielded, and so must be supported to a certain extent, but long term, they must be superseded as a brand, in whatever way that happens. Once again, really all there is to it.

547 It was not the slogan. IT WAS MCCAIN! “wacko birds” John would have lost to ANYONE other than JFK. The Reagan Democrats aka “swing voters” look for integrity! He only “GOPer” in the Keating 5 has had none for decades. He is and has always been a “slll out” to the GOP ruling Class. Hen the “Ruling Class” needed someone to front for AMNESTY 10 years ago they called 'ALLAHU AKHBAR!' John front and center. I know there are folks who will vote for the Devil if he has an “R” after his name. But not the Reagan Democrats!

548

O-bah-muhh and the DemocRats are the gods of the marketplace.

Conservatives are the gods of the copybook headings.

549 conservatism is not a hard sell, but no one is selling it.   No movies show heartwarming conservative stories where the hardworking business man overcame a small town political machine.   But we get 15 million stories about the tree huggers winning over the cold heartless corporation, or otherwise defeating it.

    There are no stories about the rugged individualists living free without 15 supporting bureaucracies.  But we get the whistle blower stories or the lawyers bringing in the government on some corporate polluter.

      Plenty of puff pieces on  the harvey milks, only hatchet jobs on the sarah palins.

      Casino Jack, yes,  John Corzine no.  W yes,  Clinton nooo.  Hell they couldnt even distribute an already made Kennedy mini-series because it did not deify the bastard.

   we get plenty of movies about the horrors of the military industrial complex.  no movies about actual conditions in the soviet union or east germany. 

        Go watch Deja Vu, there are a million movies with those types of villians, that is why it is so easy to shorthand an attack on a white conservative.   No cultural shorthand exists for crony capitalist democrats or race pimp black activists.

         Until we fundamentally change the pop media culture in America, we will be fighting up the hill with them shooting down into our ranks.

550 It's not that the GOP establishment won't go all in on Obamacare, it's that they won't play offense. 
Ever. 
At all.

IF the GOP leadership decided not to take on OCare at the moment, they could still get the rest of us behind them by attaching the following to the debt limit increase, and making it non-negotiable: "No Executive Order has the binding force of law unless it is ratified by both houses of Congress".
You'd better believe that we'd fall in. 
Constitutionally, this is a layup.  Politically, a supermajority of the population would support it.  Economically, it's a lifesaver.  It's basic enough for even the lowest of LIVs to grok.
It's also a direct attack on the Democrat's base.  They'll scream bloody murder.  And if they're willing to shut down the government over it, that's there choice.  Non-negotiable.

Do you think that the GOP leadership would hold the line?
I don't.  Not even for a second.

As for Let It Burn, I'm solidly in that camp.  The math is inescapable.  We're going to crash.  There isn't enough funding to meet entitlements and service the debt (much less do the things that governments are actually supposed to do).  It's only going to worse.  It's too late to forestall this.  There are only a couple of ways to deal with it, and they're horrible. 
Not to mention the reaction the populace will have when their entitlements are either not paid, or reduced to a pittance by inflation.  *That's* where the flames are going to come from.  Not those of us who see it coming, but can't do a bloody thing about it. 

551 Optimism is not stupid. If you can't win, it doesn't matter what you do, so it makes sense to start with the assumption that you can win, even if you don't really believe that. If your assumption is wrong you will not be any worse off for having made it.

552 >>>I think "Let It Burn" tells a lot about a person.
It tells me that person comes from such a comfortable upbringing that person can afford to despise security and stability and embrace chaos and anarchy.

Your lack of reasoning capability is duly noted. The very best way to gain respect for your opinion is telling others that you think theirs is so wrong you didn't even bother to read it, and summarizing totally inaccurate things about their life from their stance. You know, I know others that argue in this way.

1. Summary dismissal of argument based on category rather than content.
2. Personal attacks to discredit arguer rather than grapple with pertinent issue.

Usually they are over at KOS though, not here. Why don't you just call me a racist angry white man while your at it?

Seriously I'm open to *ANY* other plan which has a better chance at actually, you know, working. When you come up with something more productive than "you're all wrong and a bunch of poo poo heads" please, I'm all ears.

553 "Man's reach must exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for?"

--Robert Browning

554 Also, as well be hanged for a sheep as hanged for a lamb, Republican politicians!

You are going to be hanged anyway, so Make the Most of It.

555

Rebrand the Democratic Party in exactly the same way as they rebranded the GOP.  The Democratic Party is not the Americans First party, they are the "evil, binding and blinding, mean people" party:  "Seriously, who else do people think are behind efforts to ban big sodas or sue hairdressers for charging women more than men? Who harasses little kids for making toy guns out of sticks, Pop Tarts, or their own fingers? Who wants to regulate the air you breathe, the food you eat, and the beverages you drink? Who wants to control your thermostat? Take your guns? Your cigarettes? Heck, your candy cigarettes? WhoÂ’s in favor of speech codes on campuses and “hate crime” laws everywhere? WhoÂ’s in favor of free speech when it comes to taxpayer-subsidized “art” and pornography (so long as you use a condom, if liberals get their way) but then bang their spoons on their high chairs for strict regulations when it comes to political speech? Who loves meddling, finger-wagging billionaires like Michael Bloomberg when they use state power and taxpayer money to herd, bully, and nudge people but thinks billionaires like the Koch brothers who want to shrink government are the root of all tyranny? -- J Goldberg, Myth Live and Let Live Liberalism.  Americans First.