Ace of Spades HQ

December 09, 2013

Overnight Open Thread (12-9-2013)
— Maetenloch

Most mammals are unable to drink milk after weaning because their bodies stop producing the enzyme lactase which allows them to digest it. But humans are the exception - with most people producing at least some lactase as an adult. But the amount varies quite a bit across different groups as the map below shows.

Most human populations, however, have developed some degree of lactase persistence, enabling them to digest milk beyond the breast-feeding stage. It is estimated that 75% of the overall world population undergoes some decrease in lactase production, but that figure varies widely, in accordance with the genetic heritage of particular populations. Northern Europeans show only a 5% decrease in lactase production throughout their adult lives, whereas that figure is over 70% in Southern Europe. The fraction of adult lactose intolerance can be as high as 90% in some African and Asian countries.

This lactase persistence is due to a genetic mutation that appeared sometime after the last ice age as humans were switching from hunting-gathering to farming. In fact looking at the above map there are clearly several lactase-persistence hotspots and it's believed that multiple lactase-related mutations appeared independently and began to spread outward based on the advantage that a diet supplemented with milk and milk-products gave.

This map shows the lactase hotspots of the Old World [1], with the Lands of the Milk Drinkers marked in the darkest hues. There are four core areas with a population over 90% lactose-tolerant: western Africa (in an area roughly contingent with modern Mauritania), the middle part of the Arabian peninsula, the Indus estuary (in southern Pakistan) and the north west of Europe (including the British Isles, southern Scandinavia and the coastal areas of the continent, with one deep jut into central Europe). The layer-like distribution of consecutive zones of decreasing lactose tolerance seems to indicate that the Milk Drinkers, in each of these four zones, were able to progress deep into the territories of their lacteally challenged neighbours.

Lessons From Sandy Hook

Lanza may have had Aspergers but he was also very likely a psychopath. And that plus an enabling mother is what made him so dangerous.

The mother did the shooter's laundry on a daily basis as the shooter often changed clothing during the day. She was not allowed in the shooter's room, however, even to clean. No one was allowed in his room.

The shooter disliked birthdays, Christmas and holidays. He would not allow his mother to put up a Christmas tree. The mother explained it by saying that shooter had no emotions or feelings.

Given his long obsession with serial killers and killing in general it's not clear that anything short of institutionalization would stopped him.

Lying Gay Waitress Fired by Dishonest Restaurant

Even though they describe their investigation as 'inconclusive'.

The Gallop Asian Bistro has taken seriously the allegations made by Ms. Dayna Morales, and those made against her. Despite news reports to the contrary, this is not a simple, straight-forward matter and we have conducted our own internal investigation. The results of that investigation are inconclusive as to exactly what happened between Ms. Morales and the customers that night. However, in light of the investigation and recent events, both Ms. Morales and Gallop Asian Bistro have made a joint decision that Ms. Morales will no longer continue her employment at our restaurant. We wish her well in the future.

Oh and the Wounded Warrior Project says that there's evidence of any donation from Dayna Morales despite her asking for donations for it.

Okay she's a serial liar who's probably been lying and scamming people for a long time and hopefully this story will make it harder for her to play her games in the future. But my real anger is at the restaurant. They basically chose a lying waitress over one of their paying customers.

Once she posted a picture of the note with the amount on it it would have been trivial for the restaurant management to check it against all credit card charges during the night and see if any ticket matched it. So they probably knew within a day that her story was BS but they stuck by her even after the completely innocent customers came forward and showed that they had in fact included a tip on their ticket. The Gallop Asian Bistro has made it clear where they stand regarding their customers so why should anyone ever eat there if they had any other choice?

BS Jobs and BS Economics

David Graeber is upset that some 'important' jobs don't seem to pay as much as he thinks they should:

.in our society, there seems a general rule that, the more obviously one's work benefits other people, the less one is likely to be paid for it. Again, an objective measure is hard to find, but one easy way to get a sense is to ask: what would happen were this entire class of people to simply disappear? Say what you like about nurses, garbage collectors, or mechanics, it's obvious that were they to vanish in a puff of smoke, the results would be immediate and catastrophic. A world without teachers or dock-workers would soon be in trouble.

And Alex Tabbarok sets him straight:

This, of course, is just the diamond-water "paradox"-why are diamonds, mere baubles, so expensive while water, a necessity of life, is so cheap?-the paradox was solved over a hundred years ago by.wait for it.can you guess?..the marginal revolution. Water is cheap and its value low because the supply of water is so large that the marginal value of water is driven down close to zero. Diamonds are expensive because the limited market supply keeps the price and marginal value high. Not much of a paradox. Note that, contra Graeber, there is nothing special about labor in this regard or "our society."

Moreover, it's good that prices are determined on the margin. We would be very much the poorer, if all useful goods were expensive and only useless goods were cheap.

And as one commenter points out Lebron James can always haul garbage but the reverse is not true of a garbage man. In general you're not paid what you're 'worth' - you're paid what it would take to replace you.

4 Common Morals Designed to Keep You Poor

My ex-mother-in-law used to help us out quite a bit, just out of the blue. Usually it was in odd ways, like buying a swing set for the kids or bringing us unnecessary things she found while shopping. Mostly dildos. Sometimes things that weren't dildos but were shaped very much like dildos. But it was always useful in some way, even if we brought the unnecessary items back for store credit. We were always thankful for it, but the second we asked her for help, she blew up.

Honestly, I understand why, and I don't blame her for it one bit. Giving something freely to someone feels pretty awesome. But if that person asks you for more on top of what you've already given them, it's pretty easy to feel like you're being taken advantage of.

What It's Like Being a Military Linguist

You got bad gouge about the Army guaranteeing you a job. The Navy can too, provided you get it on paper. I entered the Navy with my job as a linguist guaranteed. The only thing that would have stopped me- if I had not passed my security clearance or had failed out of DLI. Trust me, I've seen both. It is a little scary, but you will be fine. (Provided you don't have too many skeletons in your closet. . . (Grin.) One guy had a vindictive girlfriend who lied about him and drugs, so he never completed DLI.)

...Last thought on women: I really appreciate having females in the Navy. And on the ship. (Even subs if you guys want to. I certainly don't want to be in one of those sinkers.) Trust me, the Navy is like a really cool, slightlllllllllllly miserable club where you work hard. Or sometimes, you completely screw off. (Don't tell anyone about the last thing.)

Saying 'Merry Christmas' Is Worse Than Killing Someone

Or even worse - fornicating. The beard has spoken.

You Should Hire This Guy

Well just based on the names alone on the letters of recommendation I would have hired the former patent clerk.

From Henri PoincarÃ©:
Nov. 1911

My dear colleague,

Mr Einstein is one of the most original thinkers I have ever met. In spite of his youth, he has already achieved a very honourable place among the leading savants of his age. What one has to admire in him above all is the facility with which he adapts himself to new concepts and knows how to draw from them every possible conclusion. He has not remained attached to classical principles, and when faced with a problem of physics he is prompt in envisaging all its possibilities. A problem which enters his mind unfolds itself into the anticipation of new phenomena which may one day be verified by experiment. I do not mean to say that all these anticipations will withstand the test of experiment on the day such a test would become possible. Since he seeks in all directions one must, on the contrary, expect most of the trails which he pursues to be blind alleys. But one must hope at the same time that one of the directions he has indicated may be the right one, and that is enough. This is indeed how one should proceed. The role of mathematical physics is to ask the right questions, and experiment alone can resolve them.

The future will show more and more the worth of Mr Einstein, and the university intelligent enough to attract this young master is certain to reap great honour.

Your most devoted colleague,
PoincarÃ©

The Yahoo AoSHQ group. Bla bla bla.

And my twitter thang.

Tonight's post brought to you by a 5,000 year old Sumerian star map:

Notice: Posted by permission of AceCorp LLC. Please e-mail overnight open thread tips to maetenloch at gmail. Otherwise send tips to Ace.

Posted by: Maetenloch at 06:19 PM | Comments (480)
Post contains 1708 words, total size 16 kb.

1 First!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 09, 2013 06:21 PM (oJ5Fd)

2 'Evening, Infidels!

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 09, 2013 06:21 PM (4Mv1T)

3 It was the Sumer of '69

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at December 09, 2013 06:22 PM (MhA4j)

4 Democrat Civil War? There has been rumblings, as of late, from the Democratic Party over political direction: The Â“moderateÂ” 3rd Way vs. the Â“Elizabeth Warren is a great tonic for the Democratic PartyÂ” that is far more open about being for socialism and statism. More: http://politicalhat.com/?p=4280

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 06:22 PM (Vk2pI)

5 Howdy, y'all!

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 06:23 PM (T1005)

6 Common Core Sticker Fail More: http://politicalhat.com/?p=4286

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 06:23 PM (Vk2pI)

7 Damned serendipitous!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 09, 2013 06:23 PM (oJ5Fd)

8 NINE!

Posted by: Slapweasel at December 09, 2013 06:25 PM (lq3Ak)

9 Milk was always good straight from the cow this stuff they sell now doesn't even taste like milk.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 06:25 PM (KuZ6A)

10 "David Graeber is upset that some 'important' jobs don't seem to pay as much as he thinks they should:"

This is what continually amazes me about liberals.

Some of them go to the best schools, and I'm not talking about just college. The best elementary schools the best public high schools or the most prestigious private schools, and then on to the best higher education.

And yet this fucking retard doesn't understand the most basic of economic principles. And he is typical of the breed.

The world and its immutable laws should conform to their silly, ignorant opinions of how things should work.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 09, 2013 06:26 PM (oJ5Fd)

11 I hope the dems do have a civil war.

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 06:28 PM (z4WKX)

12 I don't think you're considering the legal liability the restaurant risked with an irate ghey employee. Hostile work envitonment and all that. They had to move slowly. She's gone for a reason.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 09, 2013 06:30 PM (zDsvJ)

13 Carol, Me too I think there would be even more bloodletting than the RInos going after the Tea Party.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 06:30 PM (KuZ6A)

14 I swear to doG, if I ever find the fcuker what invented these doG-Damn "icicle lights", I'm gonna kick him in the nuts so hard that his grandfather will be pissing blood for the next three weeks... Two+ hours of stringin' lights in 12Â° with a howlin' wind; just to be told "they're not all hanging down evenly" My reaction could have been seen from space g'evenin', 'rons I still can't feel my fingers or toes...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 06:31 PM (JMmQ9)

15 My brother was a DLI grad in Bulgarian in the 70's. A couple flights a month over Europe after 2 years studying in Monterrey was a nice gig! (especially during the Nam years!)

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 09, 2013 06:31 PM (b/lt+)

16 Will milk double in price if the "farm bill" is not passed soon?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 09, 2013 06:31 PM (S+wJC)

17 I want to say Merry Christmas twice as much just to piss off the Moose Limb.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 06:32 PM (hFL/3)

18 #16 Better be buying that cow.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 06:33 PM (KuZ6A)

19 Ah, my Sumerian star map. I've been looking for that. OK, which one of you morons purloined my star map? I bet you have my missing cognac too.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 09, 2013 06:33 PM (zyPTC)

20 Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 09, 2013 10:31 PM (S+wJC)

Farm subsidies are the very backbone of the family farm!

And we've paid our Congressional flunkies a pretty penny to keep them coming!

Posted by: Archer Daniel at December 09, 2013 06:33 PM (XdnQT)

21 Ah, my Sumerian star map. I've been looking for that. OK, which one of you morons purloined my star map? I bet you have my missing cognac too. Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 09, 2013 10:33 PM (zyPTC) My bad.

Posted by: Dagon at December 09, 2013 06:34 PM (Vk2pI)

22 I learned dog were lactose intolerant a couple of months ago. I did not know that....not that I gave my dogs dairy.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 06:35 PM (bCEmE)

23 Milk was always good straight from the cow Until she steps on your head.

Posted by: toby928© at December 09, 2013 06:35 PM (QupBk)

24 If you go several years without drinking milk ... do you lose the ability to digest it? Does your lactase production turn off due to lack of use? Would seem dumb for your body to keep producing an enzyme you never use. And if you start drinking it again does your body ramp production back up?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2013 06:37 PM (ZPrif)

25 I've said before that I will miss dairy products most in the Burning. Cows are just too tasty and too stupid to survive in any kind of numbers.

Posted by: toby928© at December 09, 2013 06:37 PM (QupBk)

26 Well, we all know milk is liquid meat. And meat is murder. Therefore milk is liquid murder.

Posted by: Anachronda likes the taste of sea kittens at December 09, 2013 06:37 PM (U82Km)

27
Christmas Toys 1957

Girl http://www.shorpy.com/node/16641

Boy http://www.shorpy.com/node/16626

*sigh* Used to be such a nice country.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 09, 2013 06:37 PM (kdS6q)

28 Sumerian food always tastes a bit stale.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 09, 2013 06:37 PM (GgPam)

29 Aren't humand the only animals on the planet that drink the milk of other animals (past babyhood, I guess)? I remember reading somewhere how strange it was that we drink cows milk while no other animal makes a habit of drinking milk.

Posted by: Colorado Voter at December 09, 2013 06:38 PM (jGQEO)

30 dogs love cheese, but it does not end well I should know, I have to clean the dog run...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 06:38 PM (JMmQ9)

31 Representative Steve Stockman of Texas(36th District) has announced a primary challenge to Senator John Cornyn

Posted by: phreshone at December 09, 2013 06:38 PM (Pr6hk)

32 Therefore milk is liquid murder. Posted by: Anachronda likes the taste of sea kittens at December 09, 2013 10:37 PM Tasty, tasty liquid murder.

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 06:39 PM (JMmQ9)

That's not a Star Map. It's Helen Thomas' first diaphragm.

They put the instructions right on them, back then.

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 06:39 PM (jC1HX)

34 Say what youlike about nurses, garbage collectors, or mechanics, it's obvious that were they tovanishina puff of smoke,the results would be immediate and catastrophic. -- Graeber Why would I say anything about them, David? They provide valuable services. They're usually just trying to get along, just like the rest of us. It's statements like this that tell you a lot about people. David G. seems to be someone who keeps company with those who habitually talk shit about the Little People who oil society's gears and keep it running. So fuck him.

Posted by: Reggie Love at December 09, 2013 06:39 PM (fAFoE)

35 Wait, didn't the sperm just say, "Merry Christmas?"

Posted by: Rob in Katy at December 09, 2013 06:40 PM (PiTBB)

36 My old dog loved milk. We made the mistake one Christmas Eve of leaving our glasses of eggnog on the floor and stepping out of the room. When we returned, both were empty and the dog drunk. After that, she wan't so keen on milk. But she still loved ice cream.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse Pinkman at December 09, 2013 06:40 PM (h4eud)

37 I'd love to go up to that guy and say "Merry Christmas." Then point to my chin and tell him he missed a spot.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 06:40 PM (J87gl)

38 Hello, folks.

Garrett, you owe me a new keyboard. I've never laughed and vomited at the same time. It's not good for the electronics.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 06:41 PM (Vvg+J)

39 Hmmm..... that Star map... Abados? Top left corner?

Posted by: Dr. Daniel Jackson at December 09, 2013 06:42 PM (lZBBB)

40 Some music and I am out. Need to be writing. Have fun.
http://youtu.be/CYL3DnyA4e0

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2013 06:42 PM (27gH7)

41 It's icecream, I swear.

Posted by: The Penguin at December 09, 2013 06:42 PM (QupBk)

42 Just read at WZ that Barky ,mooch,weasel and jar jar binks are all going to mandelas funeral couldn't we revoke their passports or close the border or bribe the Africans to keep them.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 06:42 PM (KuZ6A)

43 Shouldn't the map show the milk-drinking areas in white?

Posted by: rickl at December 09, 2013 06:42 PM (sdi6R)

44 Off, Reggie sock. And milk is awesome.

Posted by: Secundus at December 09, 2013 06:43 PM (fAFoE)

45 If Poincare was that effusive of Einstein, just think if he would have had the good fortune of writing a recommendation letter for a young Barry Soetoro.

Posted by: Brass Bancroft at December 09, 2013 06:45 PM (niuxr)

46 Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 10:42 PM (KuZ6A) Well.... if Obama really is a citizen over there, he owes a Metric Fuckton of Back Tax's

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 06:45 PM (lZBBB)

47 So, Bush hitched a ride on Air Force One. The JEF AND Mooch (on the same plane for once) stayed in their cabin the whole flight, along with Va-Jart, Rice-in, & Thug-older. Bush and Laura on the other hand spoke to the press pool a few times for a total of about an hour and a half. I guess it's hard to blame Bush for everything when he is right there.

Posted by: lindafell at December 09, 2013 06:46 PM (PGO8C)

48 'I wish they all could be Mauritanian Giiiirls.'

Posted by: Mike Love at December 09, 2013 06:46 PM (jC1HX)

49 Infidel? I'm a moron, hey horde

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 06:47 PM (HVff2)

50 Star Map[\s]? Who translated this? Star gate[\i].

Posted by: Jackson at December 09, 2013 06:47 PM (xgvvD)

51 Hubby says once they are outta the country shut the damn door.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 06:47 PM (KuZ6A)

52 Well.... if Obama really is a citizen over there, he owes a Metric Fuckton of Back Tax's
Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 10:45 PM
--------------------
Get in line.

Posted by: Peruvian Treasury Dept. at December 09, 2013 06:47 PM (Ynff8)

53 oops. where's that other tablet?

Posted by: Jackson at December 09, 2013 06:48 PM (xgvvD)

54 Bush and Obama on the same plane? And Obama didn't take him out? WTF? I thought Bush was the devil and Obama was Jesus and and and... OMGZ I just don't... can't... augh!

Posted by: That's Mister Low Information Voter, to you at December 09, 2013 06:48 PM (Vvg+J)

55
   Grew up drinking milk--mostly straight from the cow. Best milk was in June, when the cows were first on the grass and a quart would be half cream.

   Wild strawberries, Ma's biscuits and whipped cream. Not a lot better than that.

   I still drink WHOLE milk--none of that 2% shit.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 09, 2013 06:48 PM (SAMxH)

56 Posted by: Peruvian Treasury Dept. at December 09, 2013 10:47 PM (Ynff

Didn't you get the memo? We don't claim this idiot!!! He's got no documentation!

Posted by: Peruvian Immigration dept. at December 09, 2013 06:49 PM (lZBBB)

57 Clearly we have a lactase inequality problem. Who's up for another government program?

Posted by: rickl at December 09, 2013 06:49 PM (sdi6R)

58 @31 pheshone, as a Texas voter (by absentee ballot) I find that interesting. Thanks for the heads up on the Stockman primary challenge to Senator Cornyn. @ 21 Dagon, I am sure you drank the cognac already, but could you please return my Texas absentee ballot. Those are a real bitch to get.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 09, 2013 06:49 PM (zyPTC)

59 Why does Bush and Obama on the same plane sound like the start of a bad God Joke?

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 06:50 PM (lZBBB)

60 rickl -

Just wait until Mooch gets wind of this. Milk will be banned everywhere, since we don't want to offend the "lactaseally challenged"

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 06:51 PM (Vvg+J)

61 It's okay, Mr. Bush. The Smartest President Ever just jumped out with my backpack.

Posted by: Just the Punchline at December 09, 2013 06:51 PM (QupBk)

62 Lanza's mom gets a lot of heat, obviously, but his father gets almost none - he who abandoned his wife and child for a better life and apparently had almost no contact with kid. It's easy to blame the mom, but the father's impact could have been a positive for the kid, and he gets off scot free for his failure as a parent ...

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 06:51 PM (B+xcR)

63 "The future will show more and more the worth of Mr Einstein, and the university intelligent enough to attract this young master is certain to reap great honour."

Blah blah blah. Can this lad empty a wastebucket?

Posted by: David Graeber at December 09, 2013 06:51 PM (eHIJJ)

64 14 I still can't feel my fingers or toes... Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 10:31 PM (JMmQ9) But, is the significant other happy?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 06:52 PM (HVff2)

65 Sumerian star map??? (Insert History Channel Freakboy with the bizzaro 'do) ANCIENT ALIENS.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 06:53 PM (0SmH0)

66 If saying "Merry Christmas" is worse than killing somebody, how bad is wishing someone Happy Hanukkah?

Posted by: Hepcat at December 09, 2013 06:54 PM (Q4mug)

67 Joe -

I wondered about the same thing. The only thing is, I dunno what the guy could have done. Seems like mommy and psycho teamed up, and you can't do much when something like that happens. Can you really hold him responsible for anticipating something like this?

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 06:55 PM (Vvg+J)

68 I still can't feel my fingers or toes...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 10:31 PM (JMmQ9)

Why did you wait till the bottom dropped out? It was pretty still decent in late November

Posted by: Red Shirt at December 09, 2013 06:55 PM (FIDMq)

69 Lanza's problem was a head full of bad wiring. Some people can't be fixed. He should have been put away or put down.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2013 06:56 PM (ZPrif)

70 Any thoughts why tfg asked the Bush's to fly on AF1? It doesn't make any more sense that having Ted Cruz be the only senator on this trip. I still can't believe Schooooomer and Reid are allowing such a plum opportunity for camera time to pass. Something is up, I am not sure what.

Posted by: Museisluse at December 09, 2013 06:56 PM (HsXTx)

71 Maet- This is a very engaging ONT you have posted, except for the idiot Arab. Somebody please shoot him. He talks about fornication and drinking alcohol... like it's a bad thing.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 09, 2013 06:56 PM (4Mv1T)

72 Thanksgiving & Hanukkah fell on the same day this year. I wonder if heads blew up over that?

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 06:57 PM (z4WKX)

73 54 Bush and Obama on the same plane? And Obama didn't take him out? WTF? I thought Bush was the devil and Obama was Jesus and and and... OMGZ I just don't... can't... augh! Posted by: That's Mister Low Information Voter, to you at December 09, 2013 10:48 PM (Vvg+J) I'm betting that in a one on one, Bush will kick little Barry's scrawny ass. This is why we need President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho!

Posted by: Brawndo's Got Electrolytes! at December 09, 2013 06:57 PM (bb5+k)

74 This is why we need President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho!

Posted by: Brawndo's Got Electrolytes! at December 09, 2013 10:57 PM

Fuck yeah!

Posted by: prez comacho in the house of representin' at December 09, 2013 06:59 PM (9gNQd)

Ahem-

**sings**

Sumer, over the rainbow...way up high.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 09, 2013 06:59 PM (N/Sup)

76 **stops singing**

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 09, 2013 07:00 PM (N/Sup)

77 "2 Lanza's mom gets a lot of heat, obviously, but his father gets almost none - he who abandoned his wife and child for a better life and apparently had almost no contact with kid. It's easy to blame the mom, but the father's impact could have been a positive for the kid, and he gets off scot free for his failure as a parent ..." YES! This makes me so furious. The kid obviously had very severe problems and needed to be institutionalized, but at least the mother was there trying, the father just completely abandoned them both.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:00 PM (hFL/3)

78 Lanza's problem was a head full of bad wiring.
Some people can't be fixed.
He should have been put away or put down.>>

And a society of throw away dads. That list of crap he got away with (running the house like a lord) would of never flown with my dad growing up regardless if I was crazy.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 07:00 PM (TI3xG)

79 69- here here. When our society refuses to acknowledge that some men are created differently, ala crisscrossed circuitry in the head that causes them psychopathic tendencies, our choices are quite limited. we lock em up, fix em, or put em down. Seattle is learning about mental illness the hard way. the leftist, hipster condo dwellers who live in the choice parts of the city and drive eco-efficient Land Rovers refuse to address the problem, because, you know, civil rights, dignity and the struggle and what not. So tourists and others get mugged, attacked or yelled at for spare change by homeless crazies. I, for one, am willing to give a few more tax dollars to institutionalize these nutburgers.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:00 PM (0SmH0)

80 Looks like another Texas coach going to be losing his job soon

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 07:01 PM (HVff2)

NCJ is going to be insufferable this week.

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 07:01 PM (jC1HX)

82 I wouldn't blame him for not anticipating, but, rather, for not being a father - could have been a positive influence and I'm sure his departure made the situation much worse.

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 07:01 PM (B+xcR)

83 80 Looks like another Texas coach going to be losing his job soon

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 11:01 PM (HVff2)

haha...I think Jones just extended his contract

Posted by: Red Shirt at December 09, 2013 07:01 PM (FIDMq)

84 That slab the Annunaki types are hyping as a Sumerian star map from 3300 BC wow! was actually excavated in Nineveh, as a part of Assurbanipal's library, and dates to around 650 BC, i.e. it's Neo-Assyrian. On Pinterest some people are claiming it was a "computer analysis" that matched the inscribed map to the sky over Sumer over 2600 years earlier (right), but meh, I must wonder if such an analysis was maybe sort of on the level of the AGW computer shit. Oh look, Aliens!

Posted by: Trotsky with an ice-pick in his head at December 09, 2013 07:02 PM (TuFuO)

85 YES! This makes me so furious. The kid obviously had very severe problems and needed to be institutionalized, but at least the mother was there trying, the father just completely abandoned them both. Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:00 PM (hFL/3) Pffft! If he had two Mommies he would have been fine. Of course "he" would have been a a "she" or even a "ze" and things would have been wonderful!!1!

Posted by: "Marriage Equality" advocate at December 09, 2013 07:02 PM (Vk2pI)

86 "I dunno what the guy could have done. " Oh, I don't know, not completely abandon the situation? At the very least he could have started the process of involuntary commitment.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:03 PM (hFL/3)

87 And a society of throw away dads. That list of crap he got away with (running the house like a lord) would of never flown with my dad growing up regardless if I was crazy. Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 11:00 PM (TI3xG) This is why Children with fathers are less likely to end up as dangerous little pricks. Fathers instill a sense of order and discipline in young men. They make them all too aware of the fact that there will be retaliation for obnoxious behavior.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:03 PM (bb5+k)

88 #70: I can think of a couple of possible reasons.

President Obnoxious did recently accuse MSNBC of being some sort of crazy whacko-bird far-right hobbit network that was just out to get him, so maybe he felt that bringing the evil Boosh along with him would blunt some of their "criticism".

Or, maybe he's well aware that that's not really the case, and just wanted the evil Bushitler along to give him a patina of bipartisanship, for the benefit of serious you guys The Middle Class.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 07:03 PM (RGQmh)

89 My mistake...Jones said he will be the coach next season regardless of what happens. The dreaded 'vote of confidence'

Posted by: Red Shirt at December 09, 2013 07:04 PM (FIDMq)

90 59 Why does Bush and Obama on the same plane sound like the start of a bad God Joke? Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 10:50 PM (lZBBB) Obama, Clinton and Bush are riding on Air Force One when all the engines suddenly fail and the plane begins to plunge. Clinton looks at the others and says, "We're about to die. I'll admit it: I did have sexual relations with that woman." Bush says, "We made a lot of mistakes in the Middle East. I own that." They both look at Obama. He glances back and says, " Don't blame me. The Air Force mechanics screwed things up so badly even I couldn't fix them."

Posted by: Secundus at December 09, 2013 07:04 PM (fAFoE)

91 81 NCJ is going to be insufferable this week why yes, yes I am

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 09, 2013 07:04 PM (JFrBt)

92 Any thoughts why tfg asked the Bush's to fly on AF1? It doesn't make any more sense that having Ted Cruz be the only senator on this trip. I still can't believe Schooooomer and Reid are allowing such a plum opportunity for camera time to pass. Something is up, I am not sure what. Posted by: Museisluse at December 09, 2013 10:56 PM (HsXTx I have wondered that myself. If I was GWB I would have refused to be seen with him after all the things he said & continues to say about him. Perhaps TFG is going to ask GWB how to handle the stress of low popularity? Bush didnÂ’t care, he used to say history would be the judge. The JEF canÂ’t stand the blow to his ego.

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 07:04 PM (z4WKX)

93 The nut burgers definitely need to be institutionalized. The illness itself often convinces them they are ok, why take the meds? They could use monitoring to make sure they take their meds.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 07:05 PM (KuZ6A)

94 the leftist, hipster condo dwellers who live in the choice parts of the city and drive eco-efficient Land Rovers refuse to address the problem, because, you know, civil rights, dignity and the struggle and what not. So tourists and others get mugged, attacked or yelled at for spare change by homeless crazies. I, for one, am willing to give a few more tax dollars to institutionalize these nutburgers. Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 11:00 PM (0SmH0) I would favor laws making the leftest hipster-condo-dwellers stay in close proximity to the crazies. Could we handcuff them together or something?

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:05 PM (bb5+k)

95 It's gonna be all reach-arounds and mojitos in Boystown, tonight.

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 07:05 PM (jC1HX)

96 But, is the significant other happy? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 10:52 PM No. Quite displeased. I hate this fcuking time of year; I do the shit for the kids. I do not need to be knit-picked.

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:05 PM (JMmQ9)

97 Meh, Bush is on board with half of Obama's policies anyway. He'd just execute them more competently. Anyway, this seems like the right time and place to tell my favorite religious joke. I'm sure some of you have heard it before, but that's OK. Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. And Protestants don't recognize the Pope as the head of the church. And Southern Baptists don't recognize each other at Hooters.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 07:05 PM (J87gl)

98 I would favor laws making the leftest hipster-condo-dwellers stay in close proximity to the crazies.

Could we handcuff them together or something?

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 11:05 PM (bb5+k)

*****

Presupposes distinguishable differences

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 09, 2013 07:06 PM (N/Sup)

Any thoughts why tfg asked the Bush's to fly on AF1?

Maybe he wants to be welcomed when he lands in Africa?

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 07:06 PM (jC1HX)

100 Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:03 PM (hFL/3) Once a divorce hits... and Judges get involved... its impossible to tell if the Father had any Legal Authority to do ANYTHING. I could just see him going to the house to even talk about this, and getting thrown in Jail for a bogus charge by a vindictive semi crazed Ex Wife.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 07:07 PM (lZBBB)

101 Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 11:05 PM (JMmQ9) Bummer Alton. Guess I'm very lucky that the Mrs. never got into the exterior decorating

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 07:07 PM (HVff2)

102 did lanza have a prius?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:08 PM (rDidD)

103 Fathers instill a sense of order and discipline in young men. They make them all too aware of the fact that there will be retaliation for obnoxious behavior. Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 11:03 PM (bb5+k) It is also important for daughters as well. Having a positive male role model will help them avoid the scum and not run to "bad boys" for a bit of male approval. Having an example of both physicality and restraint is also important. Guys tend to be more physical. then gals. I don't mean that they are simply stronger, but that in men tend to communicate more physically and bond more physically (rough sports, for example). To that end guys tend to understand the nuances a little better when it comes to physical altercations. Without that role model, the girls will have a greater tendency towards unrestrained violence because there is less a limitation that boys are capable of working out between them. Seriously, nothing more vicious than a good cat fight.

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 07:08 PM (Vk2pI)

104 Maybe he wants to be welcomed when he lands in Africa? Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 11:06 PM (jC1HX) They loooooove GWB in Africa. This is gonna be interesting....

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 07:08 PM (bCEmE)

105 obama wants to see if he can get Bush to do his last two years for him.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:09 PM (rDidD)

106
Perhaps TFG is going to ask GWB how to handle the stress of low popularity? Bush didnÂ’t care, he used to say history would be the judge.

The JEF canÂ’t stand the blow to his ego.

Bush is more popular in parts of Africa than TFG. He's hoping to ride that popularity through the trip.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 09, 2013 07:09 PM (lr3d7)

107 I don't know about now, but when I joined the Air Force in '96 I was guaranteed a linguist AFSC. I knew I wanted intel, and originally had another intel AFSC as my guaranteed job, but when my ASVAB scores came back, my recruiter asked me if I wanted to take the DLAB. I did, and I passed. DLI was too much fun. The male to female ratio was almost 50/50. It's pretty much the only AFSC with that demographic or at least it was when I was active duty.

Posted by: no good deed at December 09, 2013 07:09 PM (HsJeN)

108 I'm both a female and a CTI (linguist) in the Navy. My rating is manned mostly by women. I've been in 18 years and have had a very successful career. I've both worked LOOOONG hours on shift and had plenty of fun in the process. It's nothing like the lefties say it is or try to make it out to be. I've run into very few men who have issues. Most were when I first came in right post-TailHook.

Posted by: NavyChief at December 09, 2013 07:09 PM (uhuPK)

109 94- Spot on. Funny thing. Seattle just elected its first Socialist city counsel member. Of course, she is married to a mircrosoft exec, so you know, she knows what its like to struggle and eke out an existence and all that. on the radio, i recently heard her speaking at a rally with the Boeing machinists union (who are perpetually on strike) about how the union didn't need Boeing, didn't need the large profits, and should take over the factory and build the planes themselves. I laughed. Boeing execs are gonna laugh when they move the factory lines out of Washington. The union assholes may finally get it when the start drawing their unemployment checks.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:10 PM (0SmH0)

110 Lauren -

I lived through something analogous with a relative. She definitely didn't have "no emotions" like Lanza, but she really enjoyed manipulating and hurting people, and she had absolutely no love in her heart for anyone. Until you can demonstrate that people like these are mentally incompetent, you can't really do anything about them.

I think the father has some fault for walking away from his son. But considering he seems to have a relationship with his other son, and the mental illness the shooter had, you have to wonder who pushed who away. Especially with the mother being oh-so-accommodating of his craziness.

You can't "parent" love into someone who doesn't have it. Either you have empathy for others, or you don't.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:10 PM (Vvg+J)

111 93 The nut burgers definitely need to be institutionalized. The illness itself often convinces them they are ok, why take the meds? They could use monitoring to make sure they take their meds. Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 11:05 PM (KuZ6A) I read an account a few weeks ago which asserted that the movie "One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest", by dramatizing abuses in involuntary confinement facilities, led to legislation which closed such facilities, and thereby leading to a mass exodus of crazies into the streets. In any case, the one occurrence was subsequent to the other.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:10 PM (bb5+k)

112 Oh can you imagine the glorious suckiness of having to take GWB along because you're afraid the Mandelas won't let you in to the funeral. After all the bad he's blamed on Bush it's no wonder he and mooch stayed in their room.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman RN now your Dr under obummer care at December 09, 2013 07:10 PM (KuZ6A)

113 Posted by: Secundus at December 09, 2013 11:04 PM (fAFoE)

Nice.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 07:11 PM (T1005)

114 Fathers instill a sense of order and discipline in young men. They make them all too aware of the fact that there will be retaliation for obnoxious behavior. Posted by: D-Lamp ----------------------- By all means. I would happy to pay you for lessons. All I manage to do is threaten to kick some asses and take some names. Now I have Cain and Able. At least they like each other.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 09, 2013 07:11 PM (4Mv1T)

115 mandelas do not like obama?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:11 PM (rDidD)

116 Presupposes distinguishable differences Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 09, 2013 11:06 PM (N/Sup) Oh yes, that might indeed be a problem.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:11 PM (bb5+k)

117 Bush is more popular in parts of Africa than TFG. He's hoping to ride that popularity through the trip.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 09, 2013 11:09 PM (lr3d7)

Probably be some shady reporting showing throngs of cheering people(for Bush) and then showing TFG waving to all his 'believers'

Posted by: Red Shirt at December 09, 2013 07:11 PM (FIDMq)

118 I could eat about eleven pounds of bacon right now...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:12 PM (JMmQ9)

119 109 CTI (linguist) in the Navy coughcoughconstantshoredutycoughcough

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 09, 2013 07:12 PM (JFrBt)

120 Biden has lined up the chairs in the White House and is playing "train".

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2013 07:12 PM (AO9UG)

121 Well, Bush has done more and saved millions of lives in Africa then the JEF has even pretended to.....

Posted by: lindafell at December 09, 2013 07:12 PM (PGO8C)

122 and wash it down with some whole milk...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:12 PM (JMmQ9)

123 Having a positive male role model will help them avoid the scum and not run to "bad boys" for a bit of male approval. in my experience, having a father who was a womanizer, gambler, and left my mother in the lurch cured me of any desire for "bad boys." but maybe that was just me. in my experience, the girls that do go for the thug-boys? they have GOOD dads, lots of support or they wouldn't effing dare. altho nowadays they all have a Good Dad. Named Barry Soetero.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 09, 2013 07:13 PM (EZNxq)

124 Did not watch neckbeard, but if he claims that saying "Merry Christmas" is worse than murder, then this just highlights that muslims don't really believe that Christ was a prophet of God.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 09, 2013 07:13 PM (Zswg6)

125 Wait a sec, you guys aren't really saying that a more forceful father was going to discipline the psycho out of the kid, are you? I mean, I agree with strong parental authority in a kid's life, but that's taking it a bit far.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:13 PM (Vvg+J)

126 99 Any thoughts why tfg asked the Bush's to fly on AF1? Maybe he wants to be welcomed when he lands in Africa? Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 11:06 PM (jC1HX) Maybe he wants someone who actually knows what the hell is going on and who is who. "Who are are these disgusting poor people?" "Africans. Your base thinks you care about them. Smile and wave, smile and wave..."

Posted by: Secundus at December 09, 2013 07:13 PM (fAFoE)

127 It is also important for daughters as well. Having a positive male role model will help them avoid the scum and not run to "bad boys" for a bit of male approval. Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 11:08 PM (Vk2pI) Didn't intend to ignore the fatherly influence on Daughters. I was just more concerned about the more serious problem of a crime ridden society being the result of feral boys. Yes, feral girls create more feral boys.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:13 PM (bb5+k)

128 I could eat about eleven pounds of bacon right now...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 11:12 PM (JMmQ9)

_______________

Me too..... If I only had an extra $99

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at December 09, 2013 07:14 PM (jucos)

129 Did not watch neckbeard, but if he claims that saying "Merry Christmas" is worse than murder, then this just highlights that muslims don't really believe that Christ was a prophet of God. Posted by: Darth Randall at December 09, 2013 11 you've never seen me wish someone Merry Christmas, you only see some stuff once.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:14 PM (rDidD)

130 That is a good point; I'd forgotten about how popular Bush is in Africa.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 07:14 PM (RGQmh)

131 Yes, feral girls create more feral boys. see I see more feral boys being created by spoiled, spacey, selfish girls. feral girls have to at least be able to deal with life. the real monsters get made by Airheaded Princesses

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (EZNxq)

132 It is also important for daughters as well. Having a positive male role model will help them avoid the scum and not run to "bad boys" for a bit of male approval. Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 11 hey, stop that, you are gonna wreck the stripper industry.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (rDidD)

133 128- feral boys and girls make things like "Knockout Game" a national past time.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (0SmH0)

134 115 TR laughed hard on the Cain & Abel reference. And Hat, you are right about a good cat fight.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (HVff2)

135 speaking at a rally with the Boeing machinists union (who are perpetually on strike) about how the union didn't need Boeing, didn't need the large profits, and should take over the factory and build the planes themselves.>>

Would the union be willing to bet their pensions on it I wonder. Cause that would be a win win for Boeing to sell them the plant If they were released from all pension obligations.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (TI3xG)

136 obama wants to see if he can get Bush to do his last two years for him. Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 11:09 PM (rDidD) ItÂ’s THREE years. Sorry for the caps but I canÂ’t format on my Mac.

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (z4WKX)

137 Link to Stockman challenging Cronyn article: http://tinyurl.com/nx9jed6

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 07:15 PM (Vk2pI)

138 " its impossible to tell if the Father had any Legal Authority to do ANYTHING. " Well, apparently in Connecticut "Anyone may begin the commitment process by filing with the probate court an application alleging that someone has psychiatric disabilities and is dangerous to himself or others or gravely disabled." So the even if the father was pushed away by the mother and son in the divorce, he could have done the decent thing and tried to protect society from someone he knew was dangerous. Our family has also been through this with my schizophrenic uncle. After he beat my grandfather nearly to death my mother and my other uncle had to twist the psychiatrists arms and threaten legal action to get the schizophrenic uncle committed. He ended up killing himself while in a mental institution, and while tragic and absolutely devastating to my poor grandparents, it was far better than many imaginable alternatives that could have happened had my family buried their heads in the sand ala the Lanzas. All the Lanzas.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:16 PM (hFL/3)

139 I read an account a few weeks ago which asserted that the movie "One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest", by dramatizing abuses in involuntary confinement facilities, led to legislation which closed such facilities, and thereby leading to a mass exodus of crazies into the streets. That's true, but the state-run (natch) institutions were hideous. They were started by that fascist douchenozzle Woodrow Wilson as part of his insane eugenics program. Some of the stories of what they did to people will make your stomach turn. Don't forget that the Soviets loved throwing dissidents into mental institutions. Giving the state power over this stuff is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 07:17 PM (J87gl)

140 I'm watching WWF!

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 07:17 PM (nNSfm)

141 in my experience, the girls that do go for the thug-boys? they have GOOD dads, lots of support or they wouldn't effing dare. Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 09, 2013 11:13 PM (EZNxq) Good Dads, or "Cool" Dada?

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 07:17 PM (Vk2pI)

142 135 115 TR laughed hard on the Cain & Abel reference. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian -------------------------------------- We aim to please.

Hope your knee is improving.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 09, 2013 07:18 PM (4Mv1T)

143 126 Wait a sec, you guys aren't really saying that a more forceful father was going to discipline the psycho out of the kid, are you? I mean, I agree with strong parental authority in a kid's life, but that's taking it a bit far. Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 11:13 PM (Vvg+J) Might not have turned psycho had he been getting corrective action from the beginning. The Human brain has wonderfully dynamic reprogramming capabilities if stimulated correctly.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:19 PM (bb5+k)

144 4 Democrat Civil War? There has been rumblings, as of late, from the Democratic Party over political direction: The Â“moderateÂ” 3rd Way vs. the Â“Elizabeth Warren is a great tonic for the Democratic PartyÂ” that is far more open about being for socialism and statism. More: http://politicalhat.com/?p=4280 Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 10:22 PM (Vk2pI) You better bet there is one. Here in Roanoke, VA, our Dem House of Delegate resigned because he was chasing the dragon again, and we are having a special election in January. The GOP is putting up the sheriff that was just defeated in the November election, and the Dems are putting up an OWSer. 2 city council members split the white "establishment" vote with a black female splitting more away while the OWSer barely won. The GOP candidate, black female, just defeated by a black male Dem for sheriff. Good chance the GOP picks this seat up for the first time, ever. If so, the VA House of Delegates will have 67 GOP members. The far left Dems are fapping themselves raw thinking that they have this sewn up, and WHITE women are commenting on how they can't believe that a black woman could be a Republican.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 09, 2013 07:20 PM (BXLPR)

145 Our family has also been through this with my schizophrenic uncle. After he beat my grandfather nearly to death my mother and my other uncle had to twist the psychiatrists arms and threaten legal action to get the schizophrenic uncle committed. He ended up killing himself while in a mental institution, and while tragic and absolutely devastating to my poor grandparents, it was far better than many imaginable alternatives that could have happened had my family buried their heads in the sand ala the Lanzas. All the Lanzas. Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:16 PM (hFL/3) I'm sorry this happened Lauren but they had the unfortunate warning of him beating your grandfather almost to death. The Lanzas had....Sandy Hook. I never heard any story that Adam went off on anyone prior to that happening. I don't know what was happening with the father and other brother so I'm hesitant to judge them. I think the mother was a tad off herself and that may have made it more difficult for the father to do anything.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 07:20 PM (bCEmE)

146 And Hat, you are right about a good cat fight. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 11:15 PM (HVff2) Speaking of catfights, I give you G.L.O.W. - the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4hp1qYdwdw

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 07:20 PM (Vk2pI)

147 I suspect wife's handling of Adam May have been a major factor in the divorce. Is the doctor who failed to report his violent abuse of his mother and a tutor named in the report?

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 07:20 PM (4JkHl)

148 yep followers of mohamed have some crazy rules. For instance you can to sex to your wife for up to 6 hours after she died and still not do a sin. But 8 hours after she dies SINNER! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 07:21 PM (aBQSE)

149 Might not have turned psycho had he been getting corrective action from the beginning. The Human brain has wonderfully dynamic reprogramming capabilities if stimulated correctly. Posted by: D-Lamp ----------------------------------------------- I am no advocate for the absent dad, but I have a loon son, and I cant seem to fix him. I alternately weep, and want to bury him in the back yard. Unless you have one, you have no idea.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 09, 2013 07:21 PM (4Mv1T)

150 ItÂ’s THREE years. Sorry for the caps but I canÂ’t format on my Mac. Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 11 yeah but Bush can only do two more and it is gonna take some time to do the papers.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 09, 2013 07:21 PM (rDidD)

151 Would like to stay longer, but I have to go. A responsibility just called.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 09, 2013 07:22 PM (bb5+k)

152 Would the union be willing to bet their pensions on it I wonder. Cause that would be a win win for Boeing to sell them the plant If they were released from all pension obligations. Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 11:15 PM I'm a "white collar" guy in The Stoopid BusinessÂ™ (the automotive business). Don't get me started about the unionized folk...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:22 PM (JMmQ9)

153 I read in one of the rags that reported on Lanza that the dad and young Lanza had regular contact after the 2001 divorce, but that when the son turned 18, the relationship "deteriorated" and the dad had not been in contact since then.

Posted by: Elinor at December 09, 2013 07:22 PM (TCqhy)

154 128 It is also important for daughters as well. Having a positive male role model will help them avoid the scum shit guess I should go ahead and get nck a pole so she can start practicing early

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 09, 2013 07:22 PM (JFrBt)

155 Ashley, when is the special election for the Lt gov district coming up. He was a conservative dim and that area was red before him.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 07:23 PM (4JkHl)

156 And yes, mental institutions were awful in a lot of ways, I'm not denying that. However, as a society we do have to accept that there are some people who can not live freely among us because of severe mental illness. I tend to favor allowing the family to make that determination, in general, because it is less likely to be politically motivated. However, that system is obviously not perfect because you do have situations like this in which the family either a) pretends there is no problem or b) runs away. Of course, in this particular instance *anyone* in the community could have started the commitment process, but apparently no one thought to do so, despite all the flaming, flashing warning signs. So that's where I throw my hands up and say that there is a lot of blame to go around, but no real workable solution to prevent another such incident, but to come back to my first point, it does piss me off that the mother gets more blame than the father when they are at least equally culpable.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:23 PM (hFL/3)

157 Don't get me started about the unionized folk... Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 11:22 PM at least not tonight...I'm past my expiration date...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:23 PM (JMmQ9)

158 #140: Also, look at all those left-wing psychologists who dedicate their careers to getting conservatism classified as a mental illness.

This is also why I'm personally skeptical of efforts to deny gun ownership to the mentally ill. Given the incrementalist strategies favored by communists, I don't recognize the so-called slippery slope as a fallacy.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 07:24 PM (RGQmh)

159 That's not a map; it's my old playbook!

Posted by: Pat Sumerall at December 09, 2013 07:24 PM (R6JT1)

160 shit
guess I should go ahead and get nck a pole so she can start practicing early
Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 09, 2013 11:22 PM (JFrBt)

Start buying her Motley Crue records so she can get used to the music...

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 09, 2013 07:24 PM (lr3d7)

161 I am no advocate for the absent dad, but I have a loon son, and I cant seem to fix him. ohÂ… TobaccoRoad . .Â… I don't know much about the Human Brain I guess but I do know that I DON'T know - and neither does ANYONE else (including neurosurgeons, they might "know" maybe 1 percent of something) it's like Â… we can't control life, you know? so many things we can't control. lots of people just don't understand or believe that yet. but one day they will

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 09, 2013 07:25 PM (EZNxq)

162 I am a divorced father who ended up with custody of my 2 girls. I at the time of this indecent lived in suburbia (now live way out in the country). But the ex had just birthed another kid and I took my girls to the hospital to see the new baby. It was after 10 pm and the hospital was downtown Minneapolis. I was freaked out to find the number of little kids (4-6) that were wandering without supervision that time of nite. No wonder they are feral. They were still out there at 11:30 pm when we left.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 07:25 PM (TI3xG)

163 147 Speaking of catfights, I give you G.L.O.W. - the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. There is a blast from the past

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 07:26 PM (HVff2)

164 D-Lamp -

I'm no psychiatrist, so what the hell do I know, but having dealt intimately with two people with serious personality disorders that made them lets say, less than empathetic, I have serious doubts that anything can be done to change them, even in childhood. I don't think you can teach a person with no love in his heart for other people to suddenly develop some.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:26 PM (Vvg+J)

165 Feral or self-sufficient, it's a fine line to manage.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 07:26 PM (4JkHl)

166 Feral or self-sufficient, it's a fine line to manage. ha ha good point!

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 09, 2013 07:27 PM (EZNxq)

167 150- Tobacco- I can only imagine. I have to deal with a variety of mentally ill people in my line of work. Unfortunately, the State of WA has such loose mental health commitment guidelines, families such as those like yours suffer when they have a member or a friend who torments them. Or if a loon goes nuts on the street then has a "better day" , sorry, the state can't commit them. It's a terrible system that is going to lead to another sandy hook or some other crazy doing something horrible. the worst part will be the aftermath when the social scientist bureaucrats, talking heads and others of their ilk asks why did this happen? and then the realization after the medical and treatment records review and friend and family interviews occur will they realize that the problem had been going on all along and no one either could or would address it.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:29 PM (0SmH0)

168 Lauren -

Really? You have a problem giving more blame to the mother who enabled the kid, who prevented anyone from getting him help, and who GAVE HIM GUNS AND TRAINED HIM TO SHOOT than the father who simply threw his hands up at the situation and left?

I dunno, one seems a helluva lot more culpable than the other to me.

I'm usually not one who says that guns are dangerous and that they shouldn't be in the home, but in THAT home... guns were dangerous and shouldn't have been in the home.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:29 PM (Vvg+J)

169 Obamacare is not the hill to fight on

Posted by: Mitch The Bitch McConnell at December 09, 2013 07:30 PM (Pr6hk)

170 "I don't think you can teach a person with no love in his heart for other people to suddenly develop some." There was a story a few days ago about a professor who realized that his own brain scan matched that of a sociopath, but he (claims that he) never killed or raped or greatly harmed a soul. Why not? Well, he credits his parents' guidance. While I don't think that good parenting can solve all, or even most, cases of bad wiring, I do find it intriguing.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:30 PM (hFL/3)

171 100 Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:03 PM (hFL/3) Once a divorce hits... and Judges get involved... its impossible to tell if the Father had any Legal Authority to do ANYTHING. I could just see him going to the house to even talk about this, and getting thrown in Jail for a bogus charge by a vindictive semi crazed Ex Wife. Posted by: Romeo13 at December 09, 2013 11:07 PM (lZBBB) This is quite perceptive, IMHO. Once a divorce proceeding starts, there are often very few if any things the noncustodial parent can do to right any wrong. Even with lots of money and countless emotional resources to put into the effort.

Posted by: My Name is Nobody at December 09, 2013 07:30 PM (5Q1ZU)

172 Having divorced parents doesn't cause kids to go psycho. There is some evidence that severe early childhood trauma and abuse can distort the brain's development. But mostly it's just bad genes and bad luck. Brain wiring goes wrong. For normal kids with normal brains, it's actually remarkable the amount of bad things that can be endured and remain a healthy, normal human. Divorced parents can cause problems -- but they are minor problems compared to becoming a psycho. There probably was nothing his parents could have done other than institutionalize the dude. He probably would have grown up to be a psycho no matter what.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2013 07:31 PM (ZPrif)

173 I'm calling Lanza a Sociopath, as opposed to a Psychopath. ----- http://www.helpingpsychology.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath-whats-the-difference

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 09, 2013 07:32 PM (aDwsi)

174
   Unionized auto industry? There's a major fuckup.

   I worked as a tech, and we're one of the largest non union groups out there.

   Actually thought about advocating for unions when I retired, until I sat down and really thought it over.

    Bad move. If you think mechs are overpriced now, imagine a union setup.

   Scary.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 09, 2013 07:32 PM (SAMxH)

175 But mostly it's just bad genes and bad luck. Brain wiring goes wrong. Or a unlucky cosmic ray

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 07:32 PM (4JkHl)

176 And furthermore, all you guys saying that all you have to do is start proceedings are not thinking about the legal practicalities. Involuntarily institutionalizing someone is the legal equivalent of putting him in jail. Courts do not take your liberty away lightly. (well, freedom of movement, anyway AHEM JOHN ROBERTS!)

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:32 PM (Vvg+J)

177 A very close friend of mine had a son who was loony tunes and clearly needed to be committed. As bright and ordinarily sensible as my friend was, she just wouldn't do it. She always had some excuse. There are a lot of mothers who just can't believe anyone can take care of their baby as well as they can. I guess that's it. I thank God that I've never been tested.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at December 09, 2013 07:34 PM (dfYL9)

178 Lauren -

Well, as to that professor who self reports as a non-harmful sociopath, I'd probably want to hear from the people he lives with on a daily basis before coming to a judgment on his virtue. Sociopaths/psychopaths almost by definition refuse to take blame for anything, even in the face of overwhelming proof.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:34 PM (Vvg+J)

179 "than the father who simply threw his hands up at the situation and left?" ...And did nothing to alert anyone to the situation that he was fully aware of regarding both the crazy and the guns. Nope, he just moved away and washed his hands of the whole mess. Yes, I consider that equally culpable. He wasn't some random uncle with a vague knowledge of the situation. He was Adam's father. He had a duty, not just to Adam, but also to the community and he chose to do nothing at all. He could have easily, easily said "Wow, this situation is not good, my son is really sick" and tried to get him help, even over the mother's objections. But he didn't do that. He did nothing.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:35 PM (hFL/3)

180 Fourth Horseman, There are going to be to civil wars, RINOs vs Tea Party/Conservatives McConnell wants to punch the SCF in the face. Dems should start abandoning TFGcare, except in safe places. Unfortunately for me, I live in Massachusetts. They are 99.9% safe. .

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 07:35 PM (z4WKX)

181 ...And did nothing to alert anyone to the situation that he was fully aware of regarding both the crazy and the guns. Nope, he just moved away and washed his hands of the whole mess. Yes, I consider that equally culpable. He wasn't some random uncle with a vague knowledge of the situation. He was Adam's father. He had a duty, not just to Adam, but also to the community and he chose to do nothing at all. He could have easily, easily said "Wow, this situation is not good, my son is really sick" and tried to get him help, even over the mother's objections. But he didn't do that. He did nothing. Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:35 PM (hFL/3) Do we know this for sure?

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 07:35 PM (bCEmE)

182 " Courts do not take your liberty away lightly. " No, but they didn't even try, and honestly, you could take one look at that kid and see that he was very mentally ill. I don't think they'd have had trouble in the courts.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:36 PM (hFL/3)

183 All I know is this. Putting guns in the hands of mentally ill people is dangerous. Lanza is a prime example. I read the entire report that was released about the Sandy Hook investigation. The mom's rationale for purchasing all of the weapons was that she enjoyed weapons and shooting, and it was a minor bond that she shared with her unemotional son- yeah he liked guns too. And apparently between his study of psychos, killers and endless playing of first person shooter games, he became quite adept at using said weapons momma provided. Also, the guy that killed Navy Seal Chris Kyle is another example. I read an article on Kyle's killer in Mens Journal and that man was a ticking time bomb. Gun therapy with him was probably the last thing that he needed.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:37 PM (0SmH0)

184 BEARS WIN!!!!!!!!!! BEARS WIN!!!!!!!!!! bring on AtC's scrubby ass team

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 09, 2013 07:37 PM (JFrBt)

185 Good night Horde, be well..

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 09, 2013 07:38 PM (HVff2)

186 "Do we know this for sure?" Well I've never seen anything that says either parent tried to have him committed, and everything I have read has said that the father was no longer in contact with his ex-wife or Adam and hadn't been for several years. Obviously we don't know all the details, but it just pains me to see one parent completely (and probably deservedly) demonized, even after her death, while the other just scoots away without a sideways glance.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:39 PM (hFL/3)

187 Hmmm. Nuts talking about nuts. This should be interesting. /jk Evening all.

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2013 07:39 PM (Q6HBD)

188 183 " Courts do not take your liberty away lightly. "
No, but they didn't even try, and honestly, you could take one look at that kid and see that he was very mentally ill. I don't think they'd have had trouble in the courts.
Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:36 PM (hFL/3)

Do you know this for sure? At some point there were reports that the mother was looking into putting him into a facility and this is what set him off.

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 09, 2013 07:40 PM (XkotV)

189 And yes, mental institutions were awful in a lot of ways, I'm not denying that. However, as a society we do have to accept that there are some people who can not live freely among us because of severe mental illness. It wasn't that mental institutions were awful, though they were. It's that the state had the power to declare someone a threat and institutionalize them in a state-run facility. That's a door you DO NOT want to leave open. Period. By the way, you've hit one of my buttons with this "as a society, we" stuff. I don't know anyone named "society" and "society" doesn't have a free will, or an intellect, or accountability. That's a road to perdition as well.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 07:40 PM (J87gl)

190 "I'd probably want to hear from the people he lives with on a daily basis before coming to a judgment on his virtue" True, but the fact that he's not out killing people is at least some measure of comfort.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:40 PM (hFL/3)

191 -16 outside with the windchill

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2013 07:40 PM (vJdyz)

192 156 Ashley, when is the special election for the Lt gov district coming up. He was a conservative dim and that area was red before him. Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 11:23 PM (4JkHl) Unknown. They won't set the date until there is a resignation of the Senate seats, and the Lt Gov elect has not done so yet. If they wait until after the General Assembly convenes, then the President ProTem of the Senate, currently a Republican will then set the date. Up until that part, McDonnell will set it. After the General Assembly is out of session, McAuliffe will set it.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 09, 2013 07:42 PM (BXLPR)

193 This ONT is making me even more depressed. Looks like I'm splitting up with my GF of about 3 years. She brought 2 beautiful kids into my life (now 7 and 10), and I'm the only father they have ever known. Sperm donor doesn't pay and almost never calls - including holidays. The fact that she is going to keep me from them (obviously no legal rights) makes me sick. Literally. I haven't eaten a bit in 3 days. I can't sleep at night. Is it any wonder I've been single for half a century? Sorry, 'ettes, but most girls are crazy IMHO. Back to your regularly scheduled ONT - somebody post some kitteh videos or something.

Posted by: Colorado Voter at December 09, 2013 07:42 PM (jGQEO)

194 Lauren -

I dunno, I agree that the father has responsibility for his kid. But the mother armed the twisted psycho. And I may be mistaken, but I think the arming occurred after the father left.

Not taking a big "abandon your kids without guilt" stance here, in case its coming across that way. I just hesitate to place equal blame on family who can't take it anymore and get out. If the mother was a sane person (she sounds almost as crazy as the kid), I'd be 100% on your side. But to me, it sounds like both the mom and the kid were just crazy enough to pop and do something like this, but not crazy enough for anyone to stop them beforehand. Which puts the rest of the family (father, brother, grandparents) in a terrible position. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Been there. You can't walk away (he did, but look at the cost), and you can't do a single damn thing in the world to either a) help people you love, or b) help yourself.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:42 PM (Vvg+J)

195 Adam Lanza would be a nobody if someone started shooting the fuck back Psycho mofo's are not immune to terminal ballistics.....

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 07:42 PM (aBQSE)

196 There probably was nothing his parents could have done other than institutionalize the dude. He probably would have grown up to be a psycho no matter what.>>

My point a long time ago in the thread was that his mother fed his crazy. Let him have complete control and that maybe a father (and I knew houses where bad cop was Mom) that didn't bow down to him might have mitigated it some. I know there are some that can't be saved/stopped but I believe the odds go up when a team of 2 (or more with close family) can drive up the statistical chances this kind of violent explosion wouldn't have happened.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 07:43 PM (TI3xG)

197 165 D-Lamp - I'm no psychiatrist, so what the hell do I know, but having dealt intimately with two people with serious personality disorders that made them lets say, less than empathetic, I have serious doubts that anything can be done to change them, even in childhood. I don't think you can teach a person with no love in his heart for other people to suddenly develop some. Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 11:26 PM (Vvg+J) Lots of wisdom in what Wolf says above. I would add that even when there's a diagnosed personality disorder and proven physical and psychological abuse having been done by the mother to the children, the cards are still very stacked against even a joint custodial father who tries to get sole custody and meaningful restrictions on contact with the kids by the abuser. Rarely the dad can win, but it is very very expensive in money, time, and emotions, and can involve slander by the mother against which the dad can't effectively counter. But for the sake of the kids, who have been damaged, it is essential to fight if the dad can and has the needed resources to do so. Been there, done that. Am one of those rare winners, but the kids have PTSD after effects, years later, and odd relations with the abuser.

Posted by: My Name is Nobody at December 09, 2013 07:43 PM (5Q1ZU)

198 Well I've never seen anything that says either parent tried to have him committed, and everything I have read has said that the father was no longer in contact with his ex-wife or Adam and hadn't been for several years. Obviously we don't know all the details, but it just pains me to see one parent completely (and probably deservedly) demonized, even after her death, while the other just scoots away without a sideways glance. Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 11:39 PM (hFL/3) So we don't know if the father had tried to do something and was pushed back by the mother? We don't know and I wouldn't rely on 'news reports'. No news reports know what transpired between the father and the mother re Adam.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 07:44 PM (bCEmE)

199 189- Maet- The entire report is pretty fascinating, but the bottom line is that investigators couldn't come up with the "why." There were a lot of factors to point to, but not a definitive answer. Sadly, any answers that might have been discovered on his computer hard drives were destroyed by Lanza and deemed unrecoverable.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:45 PM (0SmH0)

200 Lauren -

As to the professor, there are things you can do to a person short of killing them that wound them almost as bad. Again, seen it first hand. Sounds like you have too.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:45 PM (Vvg+J)

201 Darn, that fly shotgun shoots salt, not nut shells. I'm confusing blasting media again.

Posted by: Zero Tolerants at December 09, 2013 07:45 PM (R6JT1)

202 I saw that Sumerian Star Map. Where's Cher's house?

Posted by: vivi at December 09, 2013 07:45 PM (+/8mE)

203 I see we have a couple of fellow Coloradans here tonight. Are you guys in the Yahoo group? There's a Moron Meet-Up this weekend.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 07:45 PM (RGQmh)

204 Posted by: Colorado Voter at December 09, 2013 11:42 PM (jGQEO) that is sad dude. Tomorrow is a new day

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 07:46 PM (aBQSE)

205 " I don't know anyone named "society" and "society" doesn't have a free will, or an intellect, or accountability. That's a road to perdition as well." Ok, but we do live in a society and we do live in a nation of laws so there is a collective conscience that governs our lives, rightly or wrongly, in the form of those laws. Further, I don't think that it is a stretch to say that the vast majority of individuals realize that there are other individuals who have dangerous mental illnesses. Like I said before, I think that families should be the ones who initiate the process because it allows for individual reasoning rather than government dictate, but there MUST be a process to both allow for help for those who would otherwise refuse it, and protect innocent bystanders.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:46 PM (hFL/3)

206 Unionized auto industry? There's a major fuckup. I worked as a tech, and we're one of the largest non union groups out there. Actually thought about advocating for unions when I retired, until I sat down and really thought it over. Bad move. If you think mechs are overpriced now, imagine a union setup. Scary. Posted by: irongrampa at December 09, 2013 11:32 PM good seeing you, IG. I'm still trying to weasel a trip to out plant in Bennington, VT so that I can buy you beers and you can tell me stories... My maternal grandfather was an actual "union organizer"; helped set up the Operators Union at the Alton Box Works back in the 1930's. Back then, it was all health and safety concerns; they were having one OTJ death per month, they had to do something. By the time he retired, he said he was ashamed to be associated with the union he helped found.

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 07:46 PM (JMmQ9)

207 My only comment vis-a-vis the 35M vs CTI thing:

Better a dog-faced 35M than a Lightning Fast Chicken Fucker!

Then again, I was a Navy Elite Warrior before EWs got sucked into the LFCF world who went to work with a lot of 97E/35M types in the Army. Our only satisfaction from the EW/CTT merger was making all those pussies go to sea duty.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 09, 2013 07:48 PM (LUkGY)

208 Daniel, It's upside down.

Posted by: Sam at December 09, 2013 07:48 PM (XFTOV)

209 Lauren -

You know, about 50% of me agrees with you that there ought to be some lowered standards for institutionalization when the person filing for it is the parent/family of the crazy person.

The other 50% of me shudders at the horror that could occur when the crazy person IS the parent/family.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 07:48 PM (Vvg+J)

210 Here are the final ten contenders for TIMEÂ’s Person of the Year (listed alphabetically):

Bashar Assad, President of Syria

Jeff Bezos, Amazon Founder

Ted Cruz, Texas Senator

Miley Cyrus, Twerker

Pope Francis, Leader of the Catholic Church

Barack Obama, Pres**ent of the United States

Hassan Rouhani, President of Iran

Kathleen Syphilis, Secretary of Health and Human Services

Edward Snowden, N.S.A. Leaker

Edith Windsor, Gay rights activist

Posted by: Groundskeeper Willie at December 09, 2013 07:48 PM (e8kgV)

211 203 I saw that Sumerian Star Map. Where's Cher's house? Posted by: vivi at December 09, 2013 11:45 PM (+/8mE) Which is that planet from MIB that's the home to the massive cockroaches?

Posted by: Thrawn at December 09, 2013 07:49 PM (ZyqBH)

212 "So we don't know if the father had tried to do something and was pushed back by the mother? We don't know and I wouldn't rely on 'news reports'. No news reports know what transpired between the father and the mother re Adam." That's true. And maybe he was advocating for commitment but couldn't convince the mother, but also couldn't bring himself to do it on his own. We'll never know,and I'm sure that if he had a do-over he would have acted differently. It's just curious that the blame focuses so heavily on the mother who is dead and thus unable to defend herself vs the father who is very much alive and could be asked these questions were anyone curious. Putting on my political hat, I'd say that the reason for this is because it's easy to paint the dead mother as a gun-toting extremist, where as the father is harder to peg to any caricature.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:50 PM (hFL/3)

213 OT- when does the death clock expire for Rove? Ok, not death, just shunned.

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2013 07:51 PM (Q6HBD)

214 http://tinyurl.com/l5ku7wy The above is from tonightÂ’s Powerline Blog email. Democrats coming meltdown! I wish they would let people comment with something other than FB.

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 07:52 PM (z4WKX)

215 Which is that planet from MIB that's the home to the massive cockroaches?

Posted by: Thrawn at December 09, 2013 11:49 PM (ZyqBH)

Chicago.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at December 09, 2013 07:52 PM (FMbng)

216 "The other 50% of me shudders at the horror that could occur when the crazy person IS the parent/family." I totally understand that risk too. I think that having a solid due process is important regardless of who is referring the individual for just that reason. I like the model of a temporary hold (say 10 days) so that the person in question can be removed from immediate danger, followed by a court hearing, and then frequent hearings thereafter. That way you can't just throw Uncle Fred into the loony bin for his collection of antique rifles. Well, unless the doctors and judges all agree...in which case well we're so far gone that crazy Uncle Fred is the least of our worries.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:54 PM (hFL/3)

217 Posted by: Groundskeeper Willie at December 09, 2013 11:48 PM (e8kgV) 5 bucks on Obama. All the other stories are what he navigated through. He is that awesome.

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2013 07:54 PM (Q6HBD)

218 The problem with the Lanza kid in CT, and the Deeds kid in VA is that the parents don't do anything. They don't want the stigma attached to them that their snowflake was not "normal". So they do everything in their power to make sure that their kid looks normal and is not in any way going to be found out as having a problem. The parents fail by not getting them the help because they don't want to be embarrassed.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac at December 09, 2013 07:55 PM (BXLPR)

219 211 Here are the final ten contenders for TIMEÂ’s Person of the Year (listed alphabetically): Posted by: Groundskeeper Willie at December 09, 2013 11:48 PM (e8kgV) Well, Ted Cruz is the only possible sane choice, but since it's Time magazine we're talking about, I'm betting he's the first one eliminated.

Posted by: rickl at December 09, 2013 07:55 PM (sdi6R)

220 Which is that planet from MIB that's the home to the massive cockroaches?

Posted by: Thrawn at December 09, 2013 11:49 PM (ZyqBH)

Chicago.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at December 09, 2013 11:52 PM (FMbng)

Actually I may be wrong about that. TFG is from there, and as far as I'm concerned he's a fucking Ballchinian.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at December 09, 2013 07:55 PM (FMbng)

221 Off, you damned sock. And thanks, 205, but honestly, from here it just looks like another day of desperation. My only real regret in life was not having kids, and now my last, wonderful hope of that is being taken away. With no real regard to their welfare, apparently. Whole family knows that I'm the best thing that ever happened to them. It's worse than sad. She's a real bitch (and if pushed, would admit it) but I never expected to be shut out like this. At Christmas, no less.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 07:56 PM (jGQEO)

222 It's just curious that the blame focuses so heavily on the mother who is dead and thus unable to defend herself vs the father who is very much alive and could be asked these questions were anyone curious. ===== This is what the mother was living with and so yeah I place most of the blame on her: Nobody was allowed into his bedroom, not even to clean, according to the report. The windows of the room were covered with black trash bags. The report also said Lanza also disliked birthdays, Christmas and holidays and did not like to have his hair cut. He also wouldn't touch doorknobs, his food had to be arranged on the plate in a certain way, and he changed clothes and washed his hands often during the day. He was a loner at school and was repelled by crowds and loud noises. His mother got rid of a cat because her son didn't want it in the house. Weeks before the Newtown shooting, Nancy Lanza was concerned about her son and said that he hadn't gone anywhere in three months and would communicate with her by email only, even though they lived in the same house, according to the report. ===== This is not something the father may have know....but the mother sure as hell did. You only communicate with your adult son via e-mail WHILE HE'S LIVING IN YOUR HOUSE?! Umm....yeah, you need to bring in help to have him committed. She didn't do that.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at December 09, 2013 07:56 PM (bCEmE)

223 On A lighter note Boobs and Beer.

http://tinyurl.com/lsw8nu6

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 07:56 PM (TI3xG)

224 My $2 is that the family the kids grow up in has a huge influence on how the kids turn out. Including Grandparents, Aunts and uncles, cousins. Few people can break the chains of the buble they grew up in. Alot of the dumbshits I've come across had dumbshit parents.

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 07:56 PM (aBQSE)

225 Good evening, Horde. I have spent the day knitting some colorwork hats and snuggling with Little - he and I both have some upper respiratory ick. Now I've read the ONT and the comments, I'm going to bed. I have my piano final in the morning, if they don't close school for snow. Again.

Posted by: Gingy @GingyNorth at December 09, 2013 07:56 PM (N/cFh)

226 So much to do, it's the busy season. Busy. Busy. Busy. The days are short and the streets are frozen. Busy. Busy. Busy. I haven't had time to read AoS, not the posts, not the comments. Busy. Busy. Busy. Help! My life is a twisted nightmare! Busy. Busy. Busy. I'll try to catch up later. BsyBsyBsy BUT! Purely in the course of busy-ness, I ran across a picture of a lady in a bikini with a bow. So I thought it would look good here on the buffet. Best I could do on short notice. Busy. etc. http://bit.ly/bowfishin Oh, my mistake. That was no lady. That was Melissa Bachman, netwidely-infamous killer of lions and zebras and cuddly little alligators. IJReview: http://bit.ly/lionkilr

Posted by: Brassy McDingleberries the mindful webworker at December 09, 2013 07:57 PM (U13jb)

227 Bashar Assad, Smartest Man in the Negotiating Room

Posted by: Groundskeeper Willie at December 09, 2013 07:57 PM (e8kgV)

228 How about a palette cleanser, horde? This should make you smile: Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson lost $18 million in a scheme by a Virginia man that involved over a 100 victims, the congressmanÂ’s office confirmed Monday. The man who ran the scheme, William Dean Chapman, was sentenced Friday in federal court to 12 years in prison. Prosecutors say Chapman used the money to fund a lavish lifestyle including a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a $3 million home.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 07:58 PM (0SmH0)

229 "Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson lost $18 million in a scheme by a Virginia man that involved over a 100 victims, the congressmanÂ’s office confirmed Monday." Ha. Best news I've heard all day.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 07:58 PM (hFL/3)

230 >>>211 ; "> Here are the final ten contenders for TIMEÂ’s Person of the Year (listed alphabetically):<<< ; ">
; ">
; ">Time? Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charles Gibson at December 09, 2013 07:59 PM (uakI+)

231 Lauren -

Heh, poor Uncle Fred. You're probably on the right track with a temporary stay, something like that sounds reasonable, and might help prevent things like Newtown. Which is precisely why no government anywhere will adopt it.

BTW, curious if you've noticed this too, but people who have to deal with mentally ill family members usually tend to be conservative? For me, the Democratic/Marxist line reminds me WAY too much of my insane grandmother. Create a crisis and then use it to your benefit (even if the benefit is just enjoying watching other people hurt).

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:01 PM (Vvg+J)

232 #24

For me, as an only occasional milk drinker, it was a gradual change. Once in a while I'd get an urge for some chocolate milk. Maybe once every couple of months. I noticed that I was getting increasingly flatulent after consuming a pint and eventually the cause and effect became undeniable as I be farting like a Saturn V booster the rest of the day. But if I drink the Lactaid or other lactose free product, no problem.

It happens in early middle age in my family.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 08:02 PM (bPxS6)

233 time to get my stuff ready for work tomorrow, horde. and to watch ANCIENT ALIENS. The Sumerian star map thing got me in the mood. later gaters

Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 08:02 PM (0SmH0)

234 As one of the filthiest Skandis around, I am very tolerant towards lactose.

Posted by: fluffy, ice wop at December 09, 2013 08:03 PM (Ua6T/)

235 226 Good evening, Horde. I have spent the day knitting some colorwork hats and snuggling with Little - he and I both have some upper respiratory ick. Now I've read the ONT and the comments, I'm going to bed. I have my piano final in the morning, if they don't close school for snow. Again.

Posted by: Gingy @GingyNorth at December 09, 2013 11:56 PM (N/cFh)

Sounds like they should close the school for medical quarantine....so you don't pass your upper respiratory thing around. Get better!

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 08:04 PM (T1005)

236 229 How about a palette cleanser, horde? This should make you smile: Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson lost $18 million in a scheme by a Virginia man that involved over a 100 victims, the congressmanÂ’s office confirmed Monday. The man who ran the scheme, William Dean Chapman, was sentenced Friday in federal court to 12 years in prison. Prosecutors say Chapman used the money to fund a lavish lifestyle including a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a $3 million home. Posted by: Secret Squirrel at December 09, 2013 11:58 PM (0SmH0) Piker.

Posted by: Kathleen Sebelius at December 09, 2013 08:04 PM (BXLPR)

237 Prothonotary Warbler! Nice to see you and thanks for helping to spread the word about the Colorado Morondezvous on Saturday. Sounds like Colorado Alex and PaleRider will be joining us. Not sure about Infidel.

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:04 PM (GRLuN)

238 .....It's worse than sad...... Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 11:56 PM (jGQEO) yep, I've talked to other guys who later in life regretted never having kids..... Meanwhile captain sperm doner is a fucko who does not appreciate. good luck

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:05 PM (aBQSE)

239 "Create a crisis and then use it to your benefit (even if the benefit is just enjoying watching other people hurt). " Yep. Coupled with doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 08:05 PM (hFL/3)

240 #29

There are ants that herd a particular species of aphid to consume a substance they exude. It's pretty comparable to us keeping other mammals for milking.

There is a vast array of things we do that other animals do not or rarely do. This is why we aren't just another animal.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 08:05 PM (bPxS6)

241 I'm actually a little more disturbed by the fact that Congressman Grapeape had $18 million to burn than I am happy that he lost it.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 08:06 PM (RGQmh)

242 Posted by: Groundskeeper Willie at December 09, 2013 11:48 PM (e8kgV) Ted Cruz is my choice. Time will pick Bashar,sorry i I misspelled his name.

Posted by: Carol at December 09, 2013 08:06 PM (z4WKX)

243 My Name is Nobody -

PTSD is a terrible thing. I'm sorry your kids are going through it, and you're to be applauded for fighting for your kids like that. I don't have much of a totalitarian side, but it tends to come out when dealing with crazy people who like to hurt others. Lock those MFers up and throw away all the keys. Especially the ones who hurt their own kids.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:06 PM (Vvg+J)

244 #238: Good to see you here, Mindy! Looking forward to the Meet-Up! You know, though, I do like the sound of Morondezvous; it's got a nice ring to it.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 08:07 PM (RGQmh)

245 I suppose I should add, for those of you not familiar, that in the Navy it is common to create and comment upon someone's rate, i.e. their specialty, in a derogatory manner. This often involves either the "initials" associated with that rate, the graphic symbol of that rate found on insignia, or the nature of the job function.

For instance, it is common to refer to Operations Specialists as "Oscillating Shitheads," a double entendre regarding both the "OS" designation as well as the job function of operating radars, which by their design oscillate.

Another example would the Hull Technician rate, referred to as HT. These individuals are typical referred to as "Turd Chasers," as their job function often involves plumbing.

In the case of Cryptologic Technicians, known generically as "CTs," but actually broken down by their sub-specialties such as CTI (Cryptologic Technician, Interpretive), CTM (Crypto Tech, Maintenance), CTT (Crypto Tech, Technical), etc. the members are often referred to as "Lightning Fast Chicken Fuckers" based upon their rate insignia, a crossed feather quill and lightning bolt: https://tinyurl.com/n2qbsqx

Posted by: Country Singer at December 09, 2013 08:07 PM (LUkGY)

246 We've transitioned to goat's milk. Took awhile to get used to it, but now we prefer it. I've heard that it makes great ice cream due to being naturally homogenized, but I haven't tried making ice cream with it yet. Oh, and if you get a stinky batch of goat's milk, it's just plain nasty!

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:08 PM (GRLuN)

247 As one of the filthiest Skandis around, I am very tolerant towards lactose. Posted by: fluffy, ice wop at December 10, 2013 12:03 AM (Ua6T/) I've got 2 scandi grandparents. I can drink a gallon of milk in 10 minutes

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:08 PM (aBQSE)

248 Time will pick Bashar,sorry i I misspelled his name.

Posted by: Carol at December 10, 2013 12:06 AM (z4WKX)

Nah, it will be Francis, as the first progressive Pope. Though Miley would be a better pick as a reflection of the culture.

Posted by: cm9000 at December 09, 2013 08:10 PM (3qZbZ)

249 What a shame that Pope Francis and Ted Cruz have to be in the list with people like Miley Cyrus and some of the others.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:12 PM (BC6cY)

250 Scusi, but don't forget me! Make that the 2nd progressive Pope.

Posted by: Pope Paul VI at December 09, 2013 08:12 PM (Vvg+J)

251 I can drink a gallon of milk in 10 minutes Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 10, 2013 12:08 AM Piker. I can drink a gallon of cream in eight minutes...

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 08:14 PM (JMmQ9)

252 Pope Francis is not really of progressive. The MSM takes everything he says out of context.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:14 PM (BC6cY)

253 Never have had problems with drinking milk. But I am a euro/American mutt. German, English, Welsh, Irish, and probably some ?

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:15 PM (TI3xG)

254 I'm sure this has already been done. But so what?

Got Milk?

Them European American genes are looking better and better every day.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 09, 2013 08:15 PM (LSDdO)

255

Right and she paid with her life. My original point was that the father is getting off with no accountability, not who has more accountability.

After Columbine here in Colorado there was a concerted effort to not place any of the blame on the parents, who, by all accounts, provided stable if unsupervised environments. As these tragedies have continued, it seems that more are willing to hold the parents accountable to some degree.

I've been the heroic divorced dad, and was somewhat abandoned as a child, so I know what it takes, it takes being involved regularly - it offends me when others do not do that and then blame the courts or crazy ex's etc. All I know, if I had a son with problems, obsessive playing of FPS games would not be allowed.

I am looking forward to meeting some hoomans this weekend at the meetup - expect social awkwardness, lol ...

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 08:16 PM (B+xcR)

256 I'm pretty strongly lactose-tolerant. It looks like my Scandi and Ashkenazi ancestors won out over my AmerInd ancestors in that department, like they did in several other departments.

You know what does give me weapons-grade gas, though? Hummus. It's like bean concentrate enriched in an Iranian centrifuge.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 08:16 PM (RGQmh)

257 Yeesh, tried to watch the Great Christmas Light Fight for ideas, they are just reshowing all the houses that have been on TLC, Travel, and HGTV for years.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 09, 2013 08:17 PM (WdbF7)

258 This.Thread. Dammit! I'm in need of quaffing a half gallon of whole milk, but not quite sober enough to go fetch it.

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 08:17 PM (JMmQ9)

259 FenelonSpoke -

You're right about Pope Francis. I think the contrast with Pope Benedict also makes him look like a flaming liberal, which he really isn't, to be fair.

That being said, I keep wondering if the Cardinals can have a recall and put Papa Ratzinger back in office.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:18 PM (Vvg+J)

260 225Â My $2 is that the family the kids grow up in has a huge influence on how the kids turn out Agree 100%. I don't want to harsh the mellow of the ONT, so last post on the topic. I'm sure I'm not alone out there , tho... Kids and GF live at her mom's. Who is on husband #5 (at 62). Her and latest man live off unemployment as long as possible ( he's RETD chief from USN). Lived in house for decades and have about 1/2% equity. My home (sitting on an acre in Norfolk, VA) will be paid off in about six months. I'm 46. Not good enough. Uncles and aunts are drug dealing hippies. Literally. I thought the bubble would by easy to burst, but it's going to be the death of me if she can't get them out of it. I'm not perfect, but I thought I was better than the status quo. Again - Somebody post some happy fucking videos, please.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 08:20 PM (jGQEO)

261 245 #238: You know, though, I do like the sound of Morondezvous; it's got a nice ring to it. Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 10, 2013 12:07 AM (RGQmh) Back east, they call it a MoMe.

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:23 PM (GRLuN)

262 #112

No. That happened years earlier. In CA they tried to blame Reagan, who was Governor at the time but he was opposed to turning out thousands of mentally people to wander the streets. The scenario he believed would result was proven accurate.

A more influential film relative to the era when patient's rights became an issue was the documentary 'Titicut Follies' in 1967.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062374/?ref_=nv_sr_1

The book 'One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest' was published in 1962 and also had a lot more to do with the patient's right movement than the 1975 movie version.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 08:24 PM (bPxS6)

263 Joe, are you referring to the Colorado meetup? Do you have the details?

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:27 PM (GRLuN)

264 Never have had problems with drinking milk. But I am a euro/American mutt. German, English, Welsh, Irish

Posted by: The Hickster at December 10, 2013 12:15 AM (TI3xG)

German, English, Welsh, Irish. Got all those. If you can find any Scottish in your ancestry we might be related.

Posted by: cm9000 at December 09, 2013 08:28 PM (3qZbZ)

265 I shoot Buttermilk straight into my eyeballs.

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2013 08:28 PM (eNGHM)

266 So I watched the first episode of Mob City this weekend. Really about all I could say I was impressed with was Simon Pegg's American accent.

Posted by: buzzion at December 09, 2013 08:28 PM (LI48c)

267

Thx to RD on twitter:

http://tinyurl.com/l4pleuy

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 08:29 PM (B+xcR)

268 One important thing to keep in mind about psychopathy/sociopathy is that, it's not exactly a black-and-white thing. There are borderline cases, and there are full-blown cases who still manage to keep their worst impulses in check.

I really think the stability of the classic nuclear family makes a huge difference for people in those situations. At any rate, you have to admit a "broken home" situation doesn't help them.

I also feel like the modern video games and easily accessible porn we have today also blunt their darker impulses a bit. These things may have to take the place of Dad now that we're pretty much discarding that whole nuclear family thing.

But then, that big push to replace tobacco with marijuana is also a pretty serious blow to their self-control.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 08:30 PM (RGQmh)

269 Yes I saw email in the group

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 08:30 PM (B+xcR)

270 I've heard of people mixing scotch and milk....and actually drinking it.

Posted by: BignJames at December 09, 2013 08:30 PM (HtUkt)

271 That being said, I keep wondering if the Cardinals can have a recall and put Papa Ratzinger back in office. I don't think it works that way. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:31 PM (BC6cY)

272 Again - Somebody post some happy fucking videos, please. Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:20 AM (jGQEO) funny, crazy, hot russian chicks and cars?

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:31 PM (aBQSE)

273 shredded chi>>

I am 51 and have been divorced twice. I have come to the conclusion I suck at chosing women. And like you I have a house mostly paid off and a decent job. It should be easy to find "The One" But I've given up on that and am just going to find hobbies and pay hookers.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:31 PM (TI3xG)

274 273 Again - Somebody post some happy fucking videos, please. Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:20 AM (jGQEO) funny, crazy, hot russian chicks and cars? Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 10, 2013 12:31 AM (aBQSE) der link in nic

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:32 PM (aBQSE)

275 Dammit! I'm in need of quaffing a half gallon of whole milk, but not quite sober enough to go fetch it I have about 1/4 gallon left, but you'll have to mix it with Valu-Rite and Kahlua. Your call.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 08:32 PM (jGQEO)

276 17 I want to say Merry Christmas twice as much just to piss off the Moose Limb. Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 10:32 PM

Here's a South Park favorite from Mr Garrison ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ2MEYzH_-I

Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2013 08:33 PM (aTXUx)

277 Ok, but we do live in a society and we do live in a nation of laws so there is a collective conscience that governs our lives, rightly or wrongly, in the form of those laws. What can I say, besides THAT is insane? That's the corrupt 19th century German philosophy of Hegel that spawned the murderous statist philosophies of the 20th century. There is NO "collective conscience." To say that there is dispenses with personal responsibility and lays the groundwork for the state-run machinery of death that created rivers of blood. Please stop believing this nonsense.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 08:33 PM (J87gl)

278 I suppose I should add, for those of you not familiar, that in the Navy it is common to create and comment upon someone's rate, i.e. their specialty, in a derogatory manner. This often involves either the "initials" associated with that rate, the graphic symbol of that rate found on insignia, or the nature of the job function.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 10, 2013 12:07 AM (LUkGY)

AT. Almost Trainable.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 09, 2013 08:33 PM (xa1/W)

279 But I've given up on that and am just going to find hobbies and pay hookers.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 10, 2013 12:31 AM (TI3xG)

This sounds like a good plan.

Back to work. Later roonz and roonettez, fear no evil.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 09, 2013 08:35 PM (xa1/W)

280 I am sorry for your trouble, chi. Here is a talking dog video. I think it was posted before but it's a good one. It's not the dog with a kitten video : http://tinyurl.com/llk4l2r

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:35 PM (BC6cY)

281 270 Awesome, Joe! I look forward to meeting you. Any awkwardness disapates quickly.

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:36 PM (GRLuN)

282 you know who has daddy issues? The JEF

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:36 PM (aBQSE)

283 German, English, Welsh, Irish. Got all those. If you can find any Scottish in your ancestry we might be related.>>

How did I leave out my grandpa Stewart (it's my dads middle name). So yes I have Scottish in there too.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:37 PM (TI3xG)

284 #163

Reminds me of one of the reasons I stopped going to movie theaters. I was at a midnight show of R-rated 'Johnny Mnemonic' (ugh) with a friend at the Hollywood Galaxy. There was a family behind us with at least three small children.

Not only was this rude as hell for the rest of the audience, this was definitely not suitable viewing for kids.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 08:37 PM (bPxS6)

285 You're welcome America

Posted by: William Dean Chapman at December 09, 2013 08:37 PM (qCtp4)

286 I hope Peaches found a way to get warm, she said no heat in her apartment and it's cold in L.A. tonight

Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2013 08:37 PM (aTXUx)

287 272 That being said, I keep wondering if the Cardinals can have a recall and put Papa Ratzinger back in office. I don't think it works that way. :^) Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 10, 2013 12:31 AM (BC6cY) Well the way it usually works is that we don't get a new pope until the old one kicks the bucket so why not go for the do over if it becomes necessary.

Posted by: Buzzion at December 09, 2013 08:37 PM (LI48c)

288 FenelonSpoke -

Hehe. Too bad, cuz the Church needs Benedict's hard-identity Catholicism more than it needs Francis' feel-good platitudes.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:39 PM (Vvg+J)

289 That's the corrupt 19th century German philosophy of Hegel that spawned the murderous statist philosophies of the 20th century.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 10, 2013 12:33 AM (J87gl)

Its regrettable that hundreds of millions of people were slaughtered. But we are going to get it right this time.

Posted by: The Left at December 09, 2013 08:39 PM (3qZbZ)

290 283 you know who has daddy issues? The JEF Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 10, 2013 12:36 AM (aBQSE) He's got more daddy issues than a strip club on a Saturday night.

Posted by: Buzzion at December 09, 2013 08:39 PM (LI48c)

291 Hitting the hay early tonight, so goodnight, all.

Posted by: Mindy at December 09, 2013 08:40 PM (GRLuN)

292 The Cardinals who picked Francis knew him pretty well. I really think he's conservative in basic theology of the church. He just doesn't have the media saavy that say John Paul II had so it comes out sounding whatever way the media wants to portray it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:40 PM (BC6cY)

293 Yes, there is, rfichoke. Although our laws are often flawed and obviously often not reflective of the desires and morals of even a majority of our population, there are certain social constructs that are near universal. Though shalt nots and the like. There are also practical understandings that are near universal in scope. You don't give a toddler a chefs knife and you don't pick up hitch hikers near the federal prison. Or, you know, ever. There is a social construct. Yes, we are all individuals, and yes obviously we are all moral agents, but to deny that we exist within the a social construct denies reality. There are times when a society completely loses its way. Not just individuals within the society, but the entire society. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't individuals within that society who ARE still moral beings, but one look at Nazi Germany shows a sickness deeper than a few bad actors. I'd say our own society is much sicker than a few bad actors. As conservatives, we're often in the Biblical position of "of the world, not in the world". But "the world" exists. Acknowledging that fact doesn't diminish the individual.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 08:41 PM (hFL/3)

294 It'll be both Miley Cyrus and His Emminence. Or...Ted Cruz (in a really dark photo) as "The Man Who Shut Down The Government"

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 08:42 PM (nNSfm)

295 In our society, there seems a general rule that, the more obviously one's work benefits other people, the less one is likely to be paid for it. The butthurt, it is strong with this David Graeber: his work is worthless to others and it would appear he feels that his compensation is too low. Sucks to be the outlier, don't it, Davey?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at December 09, 2013 08:42 PM (jPh+G)

296 A buddy of watched a 5/6 year old boy come out of Black Hawk Down with his 'dad' while my buddy was going into the theater. that was 10+ years ago

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:42 PM (aBQSE)

297 Well, I'm out for the evening. Here's a classic tune that comment #3 got stuck in my head (to be more precise, it's a much better song than DoRD referenced, but it's done by the same guy)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQRB5h0YKKI

Good night, everyone!

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at December 09, 2013 08:43 PM (RGQmh)

298 Or...Ted Cruz (in a really dark photo) as "The Man Who Shut Down The Government" >>

They got paid it was a fucking extra vacation.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:43 PM (TI3xG)

299 Posted by: The Hickster I've read your a lot of your posts, And it seems like we're on the same page... Sometimes, anyway. Hookers ain't a hobby, and won't be anytime soon. Even as a joke. Thanks, FS, everyone else. I'll watch some funny, and maybe try to come back. Truly sorry if i ruined the spirit of the ONT this evening. Wasn't my intention. I guess that's what therapists are for.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 08:44 PM (jGQEO)

300 Anyway, I'm headed to bed. G'night horde. Sorry for bringing down the ONT with decidedly unfun topics. Here's a sleepy mouse to make amends. https://www.myptsd.com/c/attachments/80631158-jpg.9914/

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 08:45 PM (hFL/3)

301 OK, I'm out tomorrow night,mi amigos

Posted by: AltonJackson (@SupSidePolitics) at December 09, 2013 08:46 PM (JMmQ9)

302 Link in my nic is a hilarious video

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at December 09, 2013 08:46 PM (/7Xis)

303

I am holding zees sno tyre ...

Such hot chicks, such lame cars

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 08:46 PM (B+xcR)

304 You didn't ruin anyone's evening, chi. I think the people here are concerned with each other. Take care of yourself.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 08:46 PM (BC6cY)

305 My son is a lactose consuming specimen............four gallons a week. When I was growing up, Mom mixed dried milk with fresh to stretch the dollars. Have never been able to drink milk since. Colorado moron here. Don't know how to use the yahoo group?

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at December 09, 2013 08:47 PM (WBJeV)

306 FenelonSpoke -

You're right about Francis' stance on the basic theology of the Church; he's probably orthodox/mainstream. But still, it's sad that we might debate whether the Pope is orthodox on basic theology. Also, is mainstream even cutting it these days? The Church needs a renaissance, and it ain't gonna come from lefty, liturgical dancing, guitar strumming priests and bishops.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:48 PM (Vvg+J)

307 McLEAN, Va. Â— U.S. Rep. Alan "Sucker" Grayson of Florida lost $18 million in a scheme that cheated him and about 120 other investors out of more than $35 million, according to court papers.

The Virginia man who ran the scheme, William "Bernie Madoff" Chapman, was sentenced Friday in federal court to 12 years in prison. Prosecutors say Chapman used the money to fund a lavish lifestyle including a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a $3 million home.

... I pity the fool who has such poor judgement.

Posted by: Mr. T at December 09, 2013 08:48 PM (e8kgV)

308 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 10, 2013 12:33 AM (xa1/W)

Heh. I originally enlisted to be an AT, but I would have been in DEP for 11 months and that wasn't going to cut it. So on my Dad's advice (Retired USNR TAR Recruiter) I pestered the shit out of my recruiter for something that shipped sooner and got an EW slot.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 09, 2013 08:48 PM (LUkGY)

309 Lauren -

Good night! And I add my apologies for being a kill-joy. I tend to do that sometimes. :-(

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:49 PM (Vvg+J)

310 In our society, there seems a general rule that, the more obviously one's work benefits other people, the less one is likely to be paid for it. >>

There is a logical argument to this but it's too long and you all get it. So my response to this is What the fukity fuckity fuck keeps those idiots in those jobs? Lack of skills or getting their ego stroked.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:50 PM (TI3xG)

311 Lauren, the idea of a "collective conscience" is what CREATED Nazi Germany.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 08:50 PM (J87gl)

312 forgot Mob City started

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2013 08:52 PM (vJdyz)

313 shredded chi -

You didn't bring anyone's head down. Sounds like you're going through some horrible stuff right now. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 08:52 PM (Vvg+J)

314 Truly sorry if i ruined the spirit of the ONT this evening. Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:44 AM (jGQEO) dude, it's cool, no worries There are good peeps here, even if they are fuckin morons....

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:52 PM (aBQSE)

315 If you think that "together we can" bullshit is going away with obama, it's not. The NFL has even adopted the "together we can" crap.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 08:52 PM (nNSfm)

316 You've got to kidding me, somebody actually dragged a Crossfire all the way to Russia

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 08:55 PM (4JkHl)

317 *grumble*

Posted by: Kicker at December 09, 2013 08:56 PM (R6JT1)

318 Ted Cruz (in a really dark photo) as "The Man Who Shut Down The Government"
>>

They got paid it was a fucking extra vacation.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 10, 2013 12:43 AM (TI3xG)

and no one noticed, except for the fences around the monuments

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 08:57 PM (4JkHl)

319 If you think that "together we can" bullshit is going away with obama, it's not.

The NFL has even adopted the "together we can" crap.

Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 12:52 AM (nNSfm)

I think it was just a competition run by the NFL for people to tell their stories about their love of football to win free trips to the Superbowl. The NFL is on a massive PR push since all the concussion problems that have come out

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 09, 2013 08:57 PM (WdbF7)

320 If you think that "together we can" bullshit is going away with obama, it's not.

The NFL has even adopted the "together we can" crap.

Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 12:52 AM (nNSfm)

We call this collectivism and we have racked up a body count of hundreds of millions.

Posted by: The Left at December 09, 2013 08:57 PM (3qZbZ)

321 You've got to kidding me, somebody actually dragged a Crossfire all the way to Russia Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2013 12:55 AM (4JkHl) I caught that too bet parts are a turkey to find.

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 08:58 PM (aBQSE)

322 And on the subject of sperm donors........my son's bailed when he was four. Thought I raised him pretty well but when I met my SO.........knew that there were Fatherly parenting there that I could have never given him.

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at December 09, 2013 08:58 PM (FzKdW)

323 Truly sorry if i ruined the spirit of the ONT this evening. Wasn't my intention. I guess that's what therapists are for.>>

You can't afford a therapist at this hour. No I don't really consort with hookers but I'm laying back and not trying to force an new relationship. Cause I fuck up when I do that. Get comfortable in your own skin for awhile. And keep links to those kids through extended family so they can contact you later if they want. They may need you someday.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 08:59 PM (TI3xG)

324 Argh, ok one more thing and then seriously. Sleepy mouse. No the thing the created Nazi Germany was the devaluation of human life and the idea that people were simply means to an end. The idea of a set of values written upon the hearts of all men dates back at least to Romans and does nothing to diminish individual culpability and responsibility as both a moral agent and an ethical end in of themselves. It is when to many within a society turn away from these values that a society begins to decay. But honestly this is all going well beyond any point that I was making regarding the fact that nearly everyone recognizes that there are some people who are a danger to themselves and others and that as a nation or state or whatever body gives authority, we must have a way to deal with this situation.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 09:00 PM (hFL/3)

325 The Church needs a renaissance, and it ain't gonna come from lefty, liturgical dancing, guitar strumming priests and bishops. LOL. I see your point. My suggestion is a to keep praying. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 09, 2013 09:01 PM (BC6cY)

326 Colorado moron here. Don't know how to use the yahoo group? Posted by: westminsterdogshow at December 10, 2013 12:47 AM (WBJeV) go here http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AceOfSpadesHQ/info

Posted by: Submit a New Request... at December 09, 2013 09:06 PM (aBQSE)

327 But honestly this is all going well beyond any point that I was making regarding the fact that nearly everyone recognizes that there are some people who are a danger to themselves and others and that as a nation or state or whatever body gives authority, we must have a way to deal with this situation. The idea that there is a "nation or state or whatever body" giving authority is exactly the foundation for every instance of tyranny. In every case, this is mankind reaching for a power that he cannot rightfully claim. This is what Hitler and Stalin claimed. The Aryan race or the Party was responsible for dictating truth and falsehood, right and wrong. This is the wrong way to go.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 09:09 PM (J87gl)

328 @327 Thank you!

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at December 09, 2013 09:11 PM (dC60f)

329 The Japanese derived their moral authority from the god-emperor. That seems to be an approach Obama could get behind.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 09:11 PM (4JkHl)

330 FenelonSpoke -

Yep, keep calm and pray on.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 09:13 PM (Vvg+J)

331 I'm not tired now but know having to get up 6 hours from now is going to suck. I'll do it and suffer through the day. But as a reasonably intelligent guy why cant I just sleep now? And I know I'll just lay awake if I try.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 09:13 PM (TI3xG)

332 Good night, horde. Take 'er easy.

Posted by: WolfinNC at December 09, 2013 09:13 PM (Vvg+J)

333 I think we are talking past each other. There clearly is a body of government that legislates what we can and can not do. However, they do not dictate to us, we allow them to represent us, and we remove them if they do not represent us. We cede authority to them to act on our behalf to accomplish certain roles such as public safety. Acknowledging this isn't inviting tyranny.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2013 09:14 PM (hFL/3)

334 I am no advocate for the absent dad, but I have a loon son, and I cant seem to fix him. I alternately weep, and want to bury him in the back yard. Unless you have one, you have no idea. Posted by: Tobacco Road There are many of us in the same situation. Keep on keeping on. You are in our prayers. T & J

Posted by: The Farmer at December 09, 2013 09:15 PM (eBupg)

335 >>>288 272 That being said, I keep wondering if the Cardinals can have a recall and put Papa Ratzinger back in office.

I don't think it works that way. :^)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 10, 2013 12:31 AM (BC6cY) <<<

Yes. And you better eat your waisins before they turn into gwapes.

Posted by: some little girl trying to be cutest kid in the world at December 09, 2013 09:16 PM (uakI+)

336 I think I might have to drop pull-ups from my routine. Something is killing my shoulders and its probably that.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:19 PM (nNSfm)

337 I think I might have to drop pull-ups from my routine.>>

Just don't fill them before your routine might help.

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 09:21 PM (TI3xG)

338 #334

Yes, but this is changing. Consider the EPA, which has unelected bureaucrats given the power to impose new regulatory regimes upon us on the basis of highly dubious scientific claims.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 09:21 PM (bPxS6)

339 It might be the weight your pulling up.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 09:21 PM (4JkHl)

340 Eye Of The Tiger is on the radio right now. I'm 14 again.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:23 PM (nNSfm)

341

My father became completely lactose intolerant several years ago (he's 85, now). Basically, he get up in the middle of the night and couldn't make it to the terlet and would make an indescribable mess. His doctor had no idea and one of his friends mentioned lactose intolerance and that turned out to be it. The folks have been drinking lactose-free milk ever since.

And the lactase pills will work for him. He's so intolerant that the slightest amount, even a bite of cheese, will have him shitting uncontrollably within 10 hours or so.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at December 09, 2013 09:23 PM (M5Os+)

342 brb, punchin stuff

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:23 PM (nNSfm)

343 Yes, but this is changing. Consider the EPA, which has unelected bureaucrats given the power to impose new regulatory regimes upon us on the basis of highly dubious scientific claims.
Posted by: Epobirs

Not just imposing new regimes, but actively courting, colluding, and paying outside attorneys to use the court system to subvert the legislative branch. Why any funds are appropriated for this is beyond me - just from a perspective of political power?

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 09:24 PM (4JkHl)

344 Yup, that's great publius, thx for sharing ...

Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2013 09:26 PM (B+xcR)

345 Time also likes to do "Is (Republican name here) Dangerous For America?" That'll be Ted Cruz's cover next year just to torpedo his candidacy.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:27 PM (nNSfm)

346 Submit, Wolf, Hick, FS, everybody. Thank you. Really, I'm touched. I didn't realize how much this hurt until I read your posts. I'm literally in tears right now. Thank you, morons. 100% great people here. Submit, since I think you started the dialog, I'm holding you equally responsible for bringing it down here. You owe us moar boobies pics. FS - don't even try to make me start reading my Bible again: " The wind of God is always blowing... but you must hoist your sail. Ok, I get it... My contribution to the funny: http://tinyurl.com/ksfcw9x NDH and Maet both rejected it for ONT material, for some reason. I think it's hilarious.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 09:27 PM (jGQEO)

347 About Lanza's dad -- Soemtimes there is a clash of wills between two parents about the proper path to go on over a child, and it cannot be resolved. The dad in this case may have finally thrown up his hands and said 'you win'. He did leave the wife and child well off financially, so money wasn't the issue.

As to her gun hobby, isn't it at least possible that the son's interest in guns (and not much else) spurred her to pursue that line? A way to reach out to him. Well, that and she probably got a lot of feedback from gun friendly males about how 'hot' it was.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 09, 2013 09:27 PM (wNF3N)

348 In other news, Zimmerman's gf says she made it all up, that one of the guns seized at her apartment is hers, and that he never threatened her with a gun. http://tinyurl.com/kmtc49k

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 09:28 PM (T1005)

349 Rising up to face the challenge of our rivals or something. From Rocky III, right?

Posted by: The Left at December 09, 2013 09:29 PM (3qZbZ)

350 Yep Rocky III with Mr T.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:30 PM (nNSfm)

351 http://tinyurl.com/ksfcw9x NDH and Maet both rejected it for ONT material, for some reason. I think it's hilarious. Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:27 AM (jGQEO) Reminds me of good times!

Posted by: Barack Obama, Hole in the Wall fan at December 09, 2013 09:30 PM (Vk2pI)

352 Anyone have any ideas how the Republicans (or Conservatives) are going to be able to defuse the political power of the QE pump. If the Dims get in a tight spot, they can dial back the cash, and the market will tank - OMFG the press with blame it on Republican fiscal austerity and John McCain will propose another Gang of Clowns.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 09:31 PM (4JkHl)

353 There clearly is a body of government that legislates what we can and can not do. However, they do not dictate to us, we allow them to represent us, and we remove them if they do not represent us. Those two statements are incompatible. They either legislate what we can and cannot do (and in so doing, dictate to us), or they do not. You cannot have it both ways. You either delegate the power of conscience or you don't. There's nothing in between.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 09:34 PM (J87gl)

354 GnuBreed, I'm sure different viewppoints on how to handle Adam were a factor in the divorce - unless somebody was banging another. At some point his brother is going to say something ...

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 09:34 PM (4JkHl)

355 Boobehs dance

http://tinyurl.com/m2hs7rd

Posted by: The Hickster at December 09, 2013 09:37 PM (TI3xG)

356 Do you guys remember how Reagan got us out of Carter's economic slump? I'll let a Harvard econ prof explain: " What Volcker and the Fed did in the early 80s was to fight inflation by tightening monetary policy and raising interest rates. This actually caused (or was a major contributing factor to) the recession of 1981-82, but did accomplish the goal of reducing inflation, which has not really been a problem since. So, the Fed raised interest rates, which shifted AD to the left, which caused a recessionary gap, but lowered inflation, just as theory would predict." *AD = aggregate demand The economy, as you remember snapped back like an elastic band and *boomed*. Do you think any Republican would have the balls to do that today? No way.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:38 PM (nNSfm)

357 Anyone have any ideas how the Republicans (or Conservatives) are going to be able to defuse the political power of the QE pump. Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2013 01:31 AM (4JkHl) Hide posts from (4JkHl) I think you mis-spelled "survive" as "defuse." Oh, I see what you mean. Seriously, that's SMOD you're talking about right there. Admiral Josh Painter just looks, shakes his head, and slowly turns away.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at December 09, 2013 09:38 PM (qyfb5)

358 You're right, soothie. There's an interview with Milton Friedman in which he talks about Reagan's wisdom with regard to the Federal Reserve and raising interest rates. It had at least as much to do with the boom of the 80s as the tax cuts, if not more.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 09, 2013 09:44 PM (J87gl)

359 353 Anyone have any ideas how the Republicans (or Conservatives) are going to be able to defuse the political power of the QE pump. If the Dims get in a tight spot, they can dial back the cash, and the market will tank - OMFG the press with blame it on Republican fiscal austerity and John McCain will propose another Gang of Clowns.

Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2013 01:31 AM (4JkHl)

The QE pump will defuse itself. Already, each dollar QE'd creates less than a dollar of GDP in the current period -- and the Fed already owns about $4T of the entire national debt of $17.2T, and is buying another $85B each month.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 09:45 PM (T1005)

360 Anyone have any ideas how the Republicans (or Conservatives) are going to be able to defuse the political power of the QE pump.

Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2013 01:31 AM (4JkHl) Hide posts from (4JkHl)

We are living in the age of the government bubble. Its end will be spectacular and catastrophic.

Posted by: cm9000 at December 09, 2013 09:48 PM (3qZbZ)

361 and the Fed already owns about $4T of the entire national debt of $17.2T, and is buying another $85B each month. Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:45 AM (T1005) Hide posts from (T1005) That's actually the potentially clever part about the otherwise disastrous plan. You might as well get the arrangement of the deck chairs just right when you aren't sure if you're on the Titanic or not.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at December 09, 2013 09:48 PM (qyfb5)

362 Re: Pope Francis: The Catholic Church was always fairly lefty when it came to economics--against communism, sure, but it's a lot easier to spout off the list of clergymen in the 20th century who became prominent advocates of economic policies bordering on socialism than ones who were Ayn Rand fans. That said, there's usually a distinction in official theology between on how you should act as an individual (ignore everything Ayn Rand ever said and piss on her grave while you're at it) and the idea that you should force other people to be more charitable through the policies you advocate--the Pope is crossing the past boundaries there.

On the other issues, the people who have been painting the pope as some sort of new age hippie simply aren't that familiar with Catholic theology. He is stretching it a bit, but there are a lot of distinctions in what he's saying that have been tenet of the church for decades if not centuries.

Posted by: AD at December 09, 2013 09:49 PM (w/jT+)

363 Shutting off (or even turning down) the government spigot today is political suicide. It will not happen.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 09:50 PM (nNSfm)

364 Mero, If it wasn't for the pointy elbows, that last video you posted was pretty hot. I like a girl that can take a punch. Whoever used the words Republicans and Conservatives in the same sentence, please stop. And Cth... Zimmerman had a GF. Girl is part of the word - one cannot assume anything sane after you hear that. 3 words: Bitches.Is. Crazy.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 09:55 PM (jGQEO)

365 It will not happen. Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 01:50 AM (nNSfm) hey bro, I'm just lurkin

Posted by: Math at December 09, 2013 09:55 PM (aBQSE)

366 The problem with raising interest rates for much of the world (US, Japan, EU, Britain) is the death spiral that would come from even more massive deficits. For the US, I think it adds about $100 billion/yr to the budget per 1% interest rate increase. And of course that particular cost keeps going up every year with the increased national debt.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 09, 2013 09:59 PM (wNF3N)

367 The economy, as you remember snapped back like an elastic band and *boomed*. Do you think any Republican would have the balls to do that today? No way. Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 01:38 AM (nNSfm) Considering the plethora of crushing regulations and anti-discrimination laws that are taken to insane extremes, the economy is not capable of "snapping back." Why do you think all the economic downturns for the past couple of decades been ones that we only slowly recovered fromÂ… or not at all?

Posted by: The Economic Hat at December 09, 2013 10:01 PM (Vk2pI)

368 50 yrs from now they'll look back at the US collapse and identifty the father (or architect) of the downfall. And that man's name is... any guesses?

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 10:03 PM (nNSfm)

369 Wong! That man's name is... Alan Greenspan.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 10:04 PM (nNSfm)

370 Night all. Here is "Dissident Aggressor" by Judas Priest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjsn7aLPgCM

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 09, 2013 10:05 PM (Vk2pI)

371
In other news, Zimmerman's gf says she made it all up, that one of the guns seized at her apartment is hers, and that he never threatened her with a gun.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:28 AM (T1005)

This is one of those thing that I'm not even going to bother to look up. Why? Because I always assume the Left are lying. Why do I assume that? Because they almost always lie.

Posted by: cm9000 at December 09, 2013 10:06 PM (3qZbZ)

372 Krugman

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:06 PM (4JkHl)

373 >>>50 yrs from now they'll look back at the US collapse and identifty the father (or architect) of the downfall.<<<

Nobody can go down like Alan!

Posted by: Andrea Mitchell at December 09, 2013 10:06 PM (uakI+)

374 From the beginning obama said he'd do away with the "booms and busts" in the economy, and he did.

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 10:08 PM (nNSfm)

375 365
Shutting off (or even turning down) the government spigot today is political suicide.

It will not happen.

Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 01:50 AM (nNSfm)

You evidently missed my note at @361. As currently constituted (with the Federal Reserve system), money is created when the Fed buys treasuries. [Obviously, this system was set up by and is maintained by someone who wants treasuries bought.] The QE program is all about creating additional money in excess of the amount needed to keep up with the economy (which is in the toilet) in order for it to flow around and be counted as GDP -- but the mechanism is the same.

Now take a look at http://tinyurl.com/atevc65 -- unless the Fed is going to monetize social security trust bonds, 1/3 of that $17T is unbuyable. Another 1/4 is unbuyable because the Fed already owns it. Another 1/3 is owned by foreigners.

So the QE road runs into a wall when there are no more buyable bonds, and we're already 1/3+1/3+1/4 of the way there.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:09 PM (T1005)

376 I don't get the whole pointy elbows thing, but then I am not picky like some people.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 09, 2013 10:11 PM (qyfb5)

377 Whoever took us off of the gold standard (Nixon?). That tuned our money into fiat, backed by nothing.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 09, 2013 10:12 PM (wNF3N)

378

I don't think the Fed can end QE even if it wanted to. They've moved themselves into the coffin corner of monetary policy. By all theory up until now, all that money should've done something. But it hasn't, which demonstrates just how bad the economy was (debt bubble collapsing). Basically, they've been trying to keep the debt bubble Ponzi going by shifting the private debt onto federal govt. (this doesn't happen directly, but it is the indirect effect, the feds borrowing ridiculous amounts to try to make up for collapsing private sector demand).

With $17T in debt, if the Fed let interest rates rise, Uncle Sam is screwed. So even if all that new base money does ever catch fire, they can't do a Volcker and pull it back out without destroying the federal budget, with interest payments skyrocketing. Debt held by the public is about $13T. Volcker had to raise rates to nearly 20%. Imagine what that would do to $13T.

I keep thinking it's got to collapse soon. It will, but look at Japan, they've been doing this for nearly 20 years. T

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at December 09, 2013 10:14 PM (M5Os+)

379 cthulhu: We are then, 1/12 away from the wall? Which is better: being all cash, being invested in gold, being invested in property.buildings, or being invested in land? It looks like stocks are about to become expensive toilet paper.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 09, 2013 10:16 PM (FlRtG)

380 368 The problem with raising interest rates for much of the world (US, Japan, EU, Britain) is the death spiral that would come from even more massive deficits. For the US, I think it adds about $100 billion/yr to the budget per 1% interest rate increase. And of course that particular cost keeps going up every year with the increased national debt.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 10, 2013 01:59 AM (wNF3N)

This nicely dovetails into my formatting fail @377. Each treasury bond purchased is the implicit promise to tax the crap out of someone to pay it off when it matures. The Federal government (the Feds) are currently spending >$1T more than they take in from tax revenues each and every year -- which counts in GDP as a positive. They can do this because they've got the Fed[eral Reserve System] buying treasuries like gangbusters. But the Fed is running out of bonds to buy -- and when they do, the folks who are left in the marketplace to buy them are going to want to see real returns.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:18 PM (T1005)

381 Yikes! Watching my local NBC affiliate, and apparently WA healthcare finder website is down, and there are people complaining that the website debited their bank accounts earlier than they were suppose to and double billing as well! People are finding their checking accounts overdrawn because the health plan finder drafted their accounts earlier than the date they designated when they set up their accounts in October!! They were only able to contact the healthcare finder via it's Facebook page because the website is down! WA was touted (by Obama and our mental midget in tennis shoes, Patty Murray) as the epitome of Obamacare success! This is HUGE! People with overdrawn accounts right during the Christmas shopping season! The other thing in this story: the family of 3 that was featured paying over $800/month. That's crazy!

Posted by: runningrn at December 09, 2013 10:20 PM (PLOz8)

382 378Â I don't get the whole pointy elbows thing, but then I am not picky like some people I think it's meant to be a self deprecating joke, man. Kinda like " she is so out of my league, she wouldn't look at me if I ran down the street while on fire." Hence, we need to be better than her, so "she has pointy elbows - I wouldn't hit it." Something like that. Or pointy elbows are really ugly - I'm not sure which.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 10:21 PM (jGQEO)

383 So, in a way, the bond purchases are creating the same debacle as the govt pensions?

Posted by: soothie at December 09, 2013 10:23 PM (nNSfm)

384 Actually QE can't ever stop. It is one of those things that once started cannot ever end. It is the Western World losing it's job and instead of getting another, applying for 50 credit cards and maxing out each one hoping SMOD happens before it gets to the last one.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 10:26 PM (2pUoC)

385 Actually, there was plenty of inflation but it was hidden by the China Discount. If it wasn't for the flood of cheap consumer goods out of China (and far lower labor costs for somewhat expensive consumer goods that would be unattainably costly if made in the US) we would regard the last decade or so as painfully inflationary.

Another difference is that a number of products would have been delayed several years until their cost to produce put them within reach of their target market. Imagine what a first gen iPhone would have cost if produced in a US factory with a supply chain largely located in developed nations.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 10:27 PM (bPxS6)

386 Nobody can go down like Alan!
Posted by: Andrea Mitchell

But can he get up

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:29 PM (4JkHl)

387 So, in a way, the bond purchases are creating the same debacle as the govt pensions?

Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 02:23 AM (nNSfm)

Sure. In the sense that some theoretical grand children will pay for it.

Posted by: cm9000 at December 09, 2013 10:29 PM (3qZbZ)

388 The Fed can't keep this up. I has to collapse as it is unsustainable. It won't be pretty when it does.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 10:30 PM (6bvBO)

389 I think it's meant to be a self deprecating joke, man. Kinda like " she is so out of my league, she wouldn't look at me if I ran down the street while on fire." Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 02:21 AM (jGQEO) Hide posts from (jGQEO) Well, that's pretty much everybody. Shoot for the moon anyway.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 09, 2013 10:31 PM (qyfb5)

390 Which is better: being all cash, being invested in gold, being invested in property.buildings, or being invested in land? It looks like stocks are about to become expensive toilet paper.
Posted by: Arbalest

Commodities and Energy
Farmland
and ammo

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:32 PM (4JkHl)

391 I believe ZH had an article explaining the Fed owns ~34% of the bond market now.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 10:33 PM (WVwyq)

392 381

cthulhu:

We are then, 1/12 away from the wall?

Which is better: being all cash, being invested in gold, being invested in property.buildings, or being invested in land? It looks like stocks are about to become expensive toilet paper.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 02:16 AM (FlRtG)

I wish I knew. Incidentally, there is a certain logic involved with owning stocks -- which I used, myself, through a bunch of the 80's-00's. The idea is that, unlike other assets (gold, treasury notes, cash, real estate), stocks represent the value of an active company that is constantly turning over. So, who cares if it's buying widget parts at $10, using $2 of labor to put 'em together, and selling widgets at $15, or buying the parts at $100, paying people $20, and selling for $150? So long as the ratio remains the same, the general inflation serves as a divisor on revenues and expenditures alike.

Unfortunately, the Obama economy isn't regular business like has been studied for the last 100 years -- it's crony capitalism. A business doesn't succeed or fail through providing services and things that people want -- it succeeds by forcing people to take what the government wants them to have. Why is Tesla a success? Why don't we have incandescent light bulbs? Why isn't power cheap? Why are farmers in the Central Valley watching their farms blow away while supermarkets are full of Mexican produce? So stocks have become divorced from traditional measures of value and react to how they are viewed by the political class.

If I had my druthers -- as I've mentioned a few times here and there -- I'd be invested in a comfortable amount of real estate in some other state.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:35 PM (T1005)

393 "The Fed can't keep this up. I has to collapse as it is unsustainable. It won't be pretty when it does."

I have often ruminated on this. Please explain. I am all ears. While I agree with you, and have for at least 20 years, such comeuppance has yet to appear. That one thing has proven me wrong any number of times.

Posted by: navybrat at December 09, 2013 10:36 PM (AW7Gr)

394 If I had my druthers -- as I've mentioned a few times here and there -- I'd be invested in a comfortable amount of real estate in some other state. Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 02:35 AM (T1005) Hide posts from (T1005) Own land somewhere a crony billionaire will want to buy, but somewhere it's hard for them to confiscate. Tricky.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 09, 2013 10:40 PM (qyfb5)

395 #390

Bingo. This is the real Singularity. Not some techno-orgasm that defies prediction for what comes after, but rather a financial calamity so immense and far reaching nobody has any basis for suggesting how it unfolds. The only thing that can be said with any certainty is that things get very ugly for a while.

I can imagine a scenario in which nukes fly, where national leaders conspire with each other to eliminate the most useless portion of each others' population. Just imagine how easy it is to cut the budget if a million welfare dependents go poof overnight.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 10:40 PM (bPxS6)

396 "Â That one thing has proven me wrong any number of times. " We haven't had TFG in the Whitehouse before. We haven't lost $10b bailing out GM before. We haven't tried to pay for the entire country's healthcare before... Give it a little while. You'll be proven right.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 09, 2013 10:41 PM (jGQEO)

397 So they ways out:

Some sort of austerity/interest rate pump fake; that would result in every incumbent politician in Washington getting bounced, so their replacements could enjoy the resulting economic boom.

Just keep on printing, in the hope that Japanese find out where the bottom of the well is before we do.

Invent some new commodity (Fusion power, Superfood/BioFuel, bottled Obama ball sweat ) that re-shapes the world's economy.

New currency, we used up the last one

SMOD, Ice Age, WW3, Iran-Israel Cage match

Just fade away

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:41 PM (4JkHl)

398 Seems like usually this sort of thing ends in War.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 10:43 PM (NzzEs)

399 #394

The problem is that the major precedents, Fascist Germany and Italy, Imperial Japan, didn't last long long to draw much useful information. Which may be frightening in of itself if we find the way they ended is the natural course of fascism.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 10:44 PM (bPxS6)

400 385
So, in a way, the bond purchases are creating the same debacle as the govt pensions?

Posted by: soothie at December 10, 2013 02:23 AM (nNSfm)

Yes in several ways. Note from my linked national debt article how much outstanding bonds ARE government pensions.

But, also, in a deeper sense -- there is the promise to tax the crap out of someone in the future.....who is not here today to say, "oh, no you fucking won't!" The bigger the number, the more probable the rejection.

Already, the national debt is $17T. There are only about 317M people in the US. Divide one by the other, and a baby that pops out today owes about $54,000 at birth [or when they become citizens, which helps explain the clamoring for amnesty among the political class]. Assuming they have a 72 year lifespan, that's $1000 for every year after they turn 18, just for the past indiscretions of the government. A thousand bucks/year that won't pay for anything they get in their lifetime, unless it's left over from somebody else....

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:44 PM (T1005)

401 The Fed may go bust.
I get it.
Except for the fact that they seem to manufacturing money out of thin air for the last 4 years without any real, palpable consequence I agree, it can't continue.

Except that it has.

Posted by: navybrat at December 09, 2013 10:45 PM (AW7Gr)

402 Seems like usually this sort of thing ends in War. Posted by: Name:*

Traditionally, yes.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:45 PM (4JkHl)

403 386 Actually QE can't ever stop. It is one of those things that once started cannot ever end. It is the Western World losing it's job and instead of getting another, applying for 50 credit cards and maxing out each one hoping SMOD happens before it gets to the last one.

Posted by: Name:* at December 10, 2013 02:26 AM (2pUoC)

We're in great shape then -- it can't stop and it cannot continue.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:45 PM (T1005)

404 390 The Fed can't keep this up. I has to collapse as it is unsustainable. It won't be pretty when it does.

Posted by: Infidel at December 10, 2013 02:30 AM (6bvBO)

Well, yeah.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:47 PM (T1005)

405 cthulhu: I've been looking at 20+ acres of farmland in another state for quite some time. It's close enough to a major metropolitan area, such that I have access to various resources, and a vote. But I have other assets now, and wish to protect them from the current reality and several potential future realities. It isn't possible to simply make an exchange all at once. Then there is the question of how to weather a real financial catastrophe. A big wad of cash is only valuable as long as people believe it's valuable; otherwise, it's paper (or cloth). A similar truth holds for gold; it's only valuable as long as there is trade, or when trade resumes. But, if/when we hit the wall, aside from farmland and water, and some gold, what will best account for inflation, or whatever happens during and after impact?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 09, 2013 10:47 PM (FlRtG)

406 Arbalest:

mixed silver dimes
ammo
skills - medical, machinist, vet

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:49 PM (4JkHl)

407 friends
esp. friends with guns

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:51 PM (4JkHl)

408 396 If I had my druthers -- as I've mentioned a few times here and there -- I'd be invested in a comfortable amount of real estate in some other state.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 02:35 AM (T1005) Hide posts from (T1005)

Own land somewhere a crony billionaire will want to buy, but somewhere it's hard for them to confiscate.

Tricky.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 10, 2013 02:40 AM (qyfb5)

I'm throwing in the towel for being where people want to be. I just want to be away from the stadiums, the trains to nowhere, the highest taxes in the nation, a place where a guy who paints cars has to change 100% of his equipment every 3 years, the 1200 state agencies who employ every nephew and cousin of the ruling class.....

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 10:51 PM (T1005)

409 The Fed won't go bust. It already did that many years ago. What happens is that a major player refuses to accept the consensual delusion any longer. When China stop taking $US in exchange for finished goods, the Fed stops having any power.

Someday soon there may be a headline on Zero Hedge about Apple stockpiling commodities through a shell company, or perhaps Apple will merge with Exxon to assure a supply of trade goods China actually wants instead of our pretend money.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 10:53 PM (bPxS6)

410 I have heard of a theory that a reserve currency cannot achieve hyperinflation unless or until other lesser currencies crap out. It seems like investing something in whatever the basket reserve currency of the future is going to be would be a good play. The problem is figuring out what that might be. What did the World use for coins after Rome fell? I've noticed that there are about 5 Countries buying all the gold in the world.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 10:53 PM (79IuU)

411 I see an external event crashing the financial system - a general war in the middle est spiking gas prices and reducing supply. The resulting hit against disposable income, hammers the retail industry. Leading to massive layoffs coming out of the Christmas hiring boom. Concurrently, Obamacare stifles any job growth, so unemployment starts going back up again.

Dims read the tea leaves and just go nuts trying to pass anything - I can see Reid taking House bills, stripping out the content, filling in some Marxist crap, passing them without the possibility of filibuster for Obama to sign.

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2013 10:57 PM (4JkHl)

412 After Rome fell the coinage remained in usage for quite a long time. The old coinage that wasn't made up of part this and part that. I recall reading that Roman coinage was still in wide use in some regions for centuries after Rome itself ceased as a power.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 10:57 PM (bPxS6)

413 Have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation, so Good Evening to all and Good Night to all ...

Posted by: Adriane... at December 09, 2013 10:58 PM (jdRXP)

414 Jean: I'm considering silver bar, as silver dimes are technically still currency and only worth 10 cents. Actually, metal stock; copper wire, plate, bar and rod, nickel, various alloy steel, etc., might be a better idea, They can be used for things, where silver and gold cannot. Ammo: this is a reloading issue. 5000 rds is good to have, but rather immobile, particularly if one has 5000 rds each of several calibers. I've been looking at machine tools for a few years. Currently I have no place to store such items. They do not move easily. The smaller mills and lathes are not too tough to move, but they have limited capacity. A Cincinnati, Van Norman, K&T, etc., start at 6000lb, and really require riggers and semi-tractors to move. Then there are the CNC machines, which might be lighter or heavier, but require more volume. Add in tooling and power requirements ... I'm still contemplating ... and watching the clock.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 09, 2013 10:59 PM (FlRtG)

415 The Einstein letter of recommendation was more than just pure conjecture.

Posted by: scottst at December 09, 2013 11:00 PM (Fp9Vt)

416 407
cthulhu:

I've been looking at 20+ acres of farmland in another state for quite some time. It's close enough to a major metropolitan area, such that I have access to various resources, and a vote.

But I have other assets now, and wish to protect them from the current reality and several potential future realities. It isn't possible to simply make an exchange all at once.

Then there is the question of how to weather a real financial catastrophe. A big wad of cash is only valuable as long as people believe it's valuable; otherwise, it's paper (or cloth). A similar truth holds for gold; it's only valuable as long as there is trade, or when trade resumes.

But, if/when we hit the wall, aside from farmland and water, and some gold, what will best account for inflation, or whatever happens during and after impact?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 02:47 AM (FlRtG)

Jean makes good points with "skills" and "friends". I should also mention that you should keep a strategic mindset.

For instance, let's say you gain skills as an electrician, and TSHTF. Where are you going to get romex and junction boxes? How are you going to get to job sites? If you do better than your friends, how will you borrow a generator or a ladder if they've gone bust and moved out-of-town? So, you'll want to be just a tad more self-sufficient, in greater ways and small.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 11:02 PM (T1005)

417 "...The old coinage that wasn't made up of part this and part that. I recall reading that Roman coinage was still in wide use in some regions for centuries after Rome itself ceased as a power. I guess that's a vote for metals or currencies backed by the same. I suppose Plutonium would be a valuable commodity. Personally I'd hate to dismantle any of my personal weapons though.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 11:05 PM (mWKog)

418 http://tinyurl.com/mowht5j

Jonah Goldberg linked this a few days ago. It discusses the early push for minimum wage laws was from those pushing eugenics. The idea wasn't to assure the survival of those at the bottom of the economic ladder but rather to price them out of the market and have them starve so that those of superior stock would be rid of them.

I'm not sure which would be creepier, for Obama and his cronies to be completely ignorant of this history or the opposite. The modern welfare state breaks the process but an orderly collapse of the welfare system while the functioning parts of the economy are kept running would be a workaround.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 11:06 PM (bPxS6)

419 Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 02:51 AM (T1005) Hide posts from (T1005) Yeah, I get that. The beautiful house with the rotten foundation and termites in the beams. I hate to give up, I usually wait too long. *sigh*

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at December 09, 2013 11:09 PM (qyfb5)

420 I have to watch RedEye. Kinda drab since Bill quit but it's all there is. Nite.

Posted by: Name:* at December 09, 2013 11:09 PM (x+XSf)

421 416
Jean:

I'm considering silver bar, as silver dimes are technically still currency and only worth 10 cents. Actually, metal stock; copper wire, plate, bar and rod, nickel, various alloy steel, etc., might be a better idea, They can be used for things, where silver and gold cannot.

Ammo: this is a reloading issue. 5000 rds is good to have, but rather immobile, particularly if one has 5000 rds each of several calibers.

I've been looking at machine tools for a few years. Currently I have no place to store such items. They do not move easily. The smaller mills and lathes are not too tough to move, but they have limited capacity. A Cincinnati, Van Norman, K&T, etc., start at 6000lb, and really require riggers and semi-tractors to move. Then there are the CNC machines, which might be lighter or heavier, but require more volume. Add in tooling and power requirements ... I'm still contemplating ... and watching the clock.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 02:59 AM (FlRtG)

I might actually note http://dutchman.rebooty.com/temp/Prison-Camp-Lathe.pdf -- where POWs during WWII managed to run a lathe while they were prisoners.....machine tools didn't spring forth from the head of Zeus -- they were constructed by other machine tools. You might not need a Bridgeport mill if you have the tools it takes to build one....because then you're a source of spares when the guy with the Bridgeport is broken down.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 11:14 PM (T1005)

422 419 "...The old coinage that wasn't made up of part this and part that. I recall reading that Roman coinage was still in wide use in some regions for centuries after Rome itself ceased as a power.

I guess that's a vote for metals or currencies backed by the same. I suppose Plutonium would be a valuable commodity.
Personally I'd hate to dismantle any of my personal weapons though.

Posted by: Name:* at December 10, 2013 03:05 AM (mWKog)

I actually considered buying a chunk of erbium a while back. Problem is, (a) the Chinese are manipulating the market for it, and (b) the US could reopen a mine and transform the market overnight. So......cronyism.

Erbium is used in 1550nm fiberoptic amplifiers, so the more data transmitted over fiber, the greater the demand.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 11:20 PM (T1005)

423 Some days are just too depressing.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 11:23 PM (6bvBO)

424 A bit warmer tonight, in the 40s.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 11:24 PM (bPxS6)

425 cthulhu: To build parts for machine tools, like a Bridgeport, requires a mill at least the size. An 11" lathe might be large enough for turned or bored parts, but a 14" lathe is very much more likely to be necessary. Making a 1/2" endmill really requires a Bridgeport, or something very close to it, as a universal dividing head is needed, and they are usually around 150lb. The much shorter answer is that this is a Pareto issue: several potential solutions appear to exist, but which one or ones is/are satisfactory solutions? My question about gold/stocks/etc. was geared to trying to preserve "wealth" through a potential crisis, as previously discussed. This too is a Pareto issue; I see several potential solutions, but which ones will work, and of those, which are better?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 09, 2013 11:24 PM (FlRtG)

426 It all seems to be a crap shoot. Food, metals, ammo seem to be the best choices. No one can predict what tfg is going to do to try to fuck us over.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 11:28 PM (6bvBO)

427 First you have to decide how severe the crisis will be. WWIV? Mad Max? Are you just expecting the grocery store shelves to go bare for a few weeks or are you expecting the end of supermarkets for your lifetime?

A lot depends on the reactions of people that won't follow any rational course and in turn the reactions of other people. Even if the disruption is very contained, there can be a lot of repercussion forcing hard decisions. Imagine if the EBT system goes down and stays down. Does it become open season on government dependents turned marauding looters?

We've truly never been here before. Nothing in history is really a model for this.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 09, 2013 11:35 PM (bPxS6)

428 Luckly I have a few friends locally. Between us we have many talents.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 11:42 PM (6bvBO)

429 I have been having some fun thoughts thinking of ways to troll lefty sites with why Oblamer took Bush on a trip.

Posted by: jc at December 09, 2013 11:43 PM (PlzOe)

430 427
cthulhu:

To build parts for machine tools, like a Bridgeport, requires a mill at least the size. An 11" lathe might be large enough for turned or bored parts, but a 14" lathe is very much more likely to be necessary. Making a 1/2" endmill really requires a Bridgeport, or something very close to it, as a universal dividing head is needed, and they are usually around 150lb.

The much shorter answer is that this is a Pareto issue: several potential solutions appear to exist, but which one or ones is/are satisfactory solutions?

My question about gold/stocks/etc. was geared to trying to preserve "wealth" through a potential crisis, as previously discussed. This too is a Pareto issue; I see several potential solutions, but which ones will work, and of those, which are better?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 03:24 AM (FlRtG)

Ummm.....yes and no. You cannot use a mini-mill to create a Bridgeport table, sure.....but you can use a mini-mill to create a zillion spare parts for a much larger mill -- and the folks with much larger mills are going to be using them to make machined tables....up until some small part breaks. So what "small machining" makes sense to hoard? I just got a small rotary table, for instance....

Fundamentally, though, it's a crapshoot. Prior to this, everyone has used common sense to stay far, far, far, far away from this level of idiocy.....it can either be "brilliantly innovative", and have no repercussions -- or it will fail in ways not previously experienced.

There are a lot of similarities to Weimar Germany or Argentina -- but we weren't previously defeated in a world war or off on the ass-end of a lesser continent. There's a certain echo of Japan's fall after 1989 (when they bought Rockefeller Center) and early 90's (when they bought Pebble Beach).

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 11:46 PM (T1005)

431

lol. No such luck here. Home with bum ribs and the flu. Not a good combo.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 11:46 PM (6bvBO)

432 431 jc "... why Oblamer took Bush on a trip." The Africans WON'T blame Bush. They remember his work to fight AIDS. Thus, anyone in the company of GWB ...

Posted by: Arbalest at December 09, 2013 11:47 PM (FlRtG)

433 Why Bush would would lend his credibility in Africa to tfg baffels me. Especially they was he has been treated by this admin.

Posted by: Infidel at December 09, 2013 11:50 PM (6bvBO)

434 434 431 jc

"... why Oblamer took Bush on a trip."

The Africans WON'T blame Bush. They remember his work to fight AIDS.

Thus, anyone in the company of GWB ...

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 03:47 AM (FlRtG)

===

Will that make a lefty cry? dunno. I was toying with stuff like "Oblamer has always been a Bush puppet and still is, he is just doing what he has been told."

Oblamer wanted a chance to get Bush somewhere for a few hours so he could ask him how to actually be Preznit.

Posted by: jc at December 09, 2013 11:51 PM (PlzOe)

435 actually the most fun would be if I could dream up some truly paranoid shit and start a lefty meme.

maybe something like: Oblamer wants to know how to successfully start a war so he can do his own Halliburton thing.

Posted by: jc at December 09, 2013 11:56 PM (PlzOe)

436 429 First you have to decide how severe the crisis will be. WWIV? Mad Max? Are you just expecting the grocery store shelves to go bare for a few weeks or are you expecting the end of supermarkets for your lifetime?

A lot depends on the reactions of people that won't follow any rational course and in turn the reactions of other people. Even if the disruption is very contained, there can be a lot of repercussion forcing hard decisions. Imagine if the EBT system goes down and stays down. Does it become open season on government dependents turned marauding looters?

We've truly never been here before. Nothing in history is really a model for this.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 03:35 AM (bPxS6)

While it is absolutely true that this particular SCoaMF is unprecedented, there are a number of historical incidents where civil order has broken down -- even a few in the US. Society turns out to be quite resilient once the bullshit is burned away.

As an example, gangs of bandits/looters start out as http://tinyurl.com/mwqxhwj and end up as http://tinyurl.com/kemxxq2 -- and don't last long.

Americans are generous people and live in a land of plenty -- I don't foresee mass starvation being an issue.....but I see a whole lot of pain and gyrations when people learn that you can't always order off a menu.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 09, 2013 11:59 PM (T1005)

437 cthulhu "There are a lot of similarities to Weimar Germany or Argentina .." I see a lot of similarities with the Western Roman Empire, between ~350AD (much barbarian influence) and ~430AD (the Rhine has fallen, and the Huns are not yet a big problem). There was still time; perhaps Stilicho or Aetius could have saved the Empire if they had taken a different course of action. I think we still have time, more than we thought 6 months ago, as ObamaCare is a disaster of historic proportions, and I think the 2014 elections will show this. I think we, the US, are not going to crash, and that we will find a way out, painful as it will be. Perhaps negotiating a separate interest rate with the Chinese will do it, perhaps other things. But I think we are uncomfortably close to a real crash, so some planning and preparation seems a very good idea.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 12:00 AM (FlRtG)

438 Some early morning DOOM up if you're so inclined.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at December 10, 2013 12:01 AM (UVadJ)

439 Wow, this is the second time Alan Grayson has been scammed out of millions of dollars but FL voters think he should have input on how taxpayer funds are spent.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 12:01 AM (bPxS6)

440 426 A bit warmer tonight, in the 40s.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 03:24 AM (bPxS6)

It didn't get out of the 40s very promptly (consults clock) yesterday morning, so I'd expect another cool one tonight....but it's supposed to get better after.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:02 AM (T1005)

441 440 Some early morning DOOM up if you're so inclined.

Posted by: Purp at December 10, 2013 04:01 AM (UVadJ)

We're doing fine over here, thanks....

Hey, isn't that Monty's DOOM logo?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:06 AM (T1005)

442 439 cthulhu

"There are a lot of similarities to Weimar Germany or Argentina .."

I see a lot of similarities with the Western Roman Empire, between ~350AD (much barbarian influence) and ~430AD (the Rhine has fallen, and the Huns are not yet a big problem). There was still time; perhaps Stilicho or Aetius could have saved the Empire if they had taken a different course of action.

I think we still have time, more than we thought 6 months ago, as ObamaCare is a disaster of historic proportions, and I think the 2014 elections will show this.

I think we, the US, are not going to crash, and that we will find a way out, painful as it will be. Perhaps negotiating a separate interest rate with the Chinese will do it, perhaps other things.

But I think we are uncomfortably close to a real crash, so some planning and preparation seems a very good idea.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 04:00 AM (FlRtG)

What are you talking about with "separate interest rate with the Chinese"?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:08 AM (T1005)

443 What are you talking about with "separate interest rate with the Chinese"? The Chinese hold a lot of our debt. If interest rates go up, we have to pay them very much more than we do currently. My recollection is that we cannot afford this. If we get them to agree to a fixed rate, no matter what our interest rates do, then we limit our risk, and theirs. We can then let rates rise, and the market handle things. This will happen eventually; remove the Chinese (and maybe some others) from the equation, and our risk and pain are less.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 12:18 AM (FlRtG)

444 I think we, the US, are not going to crash, and that we will find a
way out, painful as it will be. Perhaps negotiating a separate interest
rate with the Chinese will do it, perhaps other things.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 04:00 AM (FlRtG)

Its the "perhaps other things" that is the scary part, because with this pack of douche nozzles running things anything is possible. I wouldn't put it past these assholes to start seizing bank accounts and assets, because you know how leftists are. They already carry on as if ts not your money anyway, its the state's money, its the people's money. Pricks that they are.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at December 10, 2013 12:18 AM (FMbng)

445 What are you talking about with "separate interest rate with the Chinese"?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 04:08 AM (T1005)

....and, to be maximally specific, have you seen this? http://tinyurl.com/l69r29a

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:19 AM (T1005)

446 445
What are you talking about with "separate interest rate with the Chinese"?

The Chinese hold a lot of our debt. If interest rates go up, we have to pay them very much more than we do currently. My recollection is that we cannot afford this.

If we get them to agree to a fixed rate, no matter what our interest rates do, then we limit our risk, and theirs.

We can then let rates rise, and the market handle things. This will happen eventually; remove the Chinese (and maybe some others) from the equation, and our risk and pain are less.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 04:18 AM (FlRtG)

The Chinese don't have that much of our debt left -- much of it, they sold to the Federal Reserve in return for greenbacks that they purchased just prior with freshly-printed renmimbi.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:23 AM (T1005)

447 The Chinese don't have that much of our debt left ... I take this to mean that we now owe ourselves a bunch of money. From your previous link, should I assume that the Chinese will try to buy the US, much like the Japanese did years ago?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 12:30 AM (FlRtG)

448 Jeez. I thought I was depressing earlier tonight - you guys are worse that a moron that lost his kids and girlfriend. I'm going to go hang out at Buzzfeed.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:32 AM (jGQEO)

449

"There are four core areas with a population over 90% lactose-tolerant: western Africa (in an area roughly contingent with modern Mauritania), the middle part of the Arabian peninsula, the Indus estuary (in southern Pakistan)..."

*COUGH* slavery *COUGH*

Posted by: Lizzie at December 10, 2013 12:38 AM (3hJcU)

450 450 Jeez. I thought I was depressing earlier tonight - you guys are worse that a moron that lost his kids and girlfriend.

I'm going to go hang out at Buzzfeed.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 04:32 AM (jGQEO)

You weren't depressing, shredded.....you were sad. We all sympathized with your sad (and still do) and hope that you can make the best of it. On the flip side, Obamanomics isn't sad.....it's puzzling. It's a disaster of an entirely new flavor, with global repercussions not previously seen. Some people will do relatively well with it; many will do poorly.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:39 AM (T1005)

451 449
The Chinese don't have that much of our debt left ...

I take this to mean that we now owe ourselves a bunch of money.

From your previous link, should I assume that the Chinese will try to buy the US, much like the Japanese did years ago?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2013 04:30 AM (FlRtG)

Well, here's the thing....neither "we" is really "us" in your statement "I take this to mean that we now owe ourselves a bunch of money." The Federal Reserve is a consortium of banks, and the Federal Government is a bunch of telephone sanitizers with an army and tax collectors. And, yes, the Chinese are buying the US as fast as they can.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:43 AM (T1005)

452 And, yes, the Chinese are buying the US as fast as they can.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 04:43 AM (T1005)

====

and like the Japanese before them they will find out there is no way to take it back home.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 12:44 AM (PlzOe)

453 I'm just trying to make light, Cth. I think you got that, tho. Thanks for encouraging words. Just Can't sleep and came back here ("home away from home"). I might be pretty bad off, but even then I wouldn't go to Buzzfeed.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:46 AM (jGQEO)

454 Fookin' temp is 28 and headed southbound. We have a bunch of plants that are rated for 25 that could get challenged. I pulled a bunch of Aussie dendrobiums inside the house, and covered the citrus.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:48 AM (T1005)

455 455 I'm just trying to make light, Cth. I think you got that, tho. Thanks for encouraging words. Just Can't sleep and came back here ("home away from home").
I might be pretty bad off, but even then I wouldn't go to Buzzfeed.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 04:46 AM (jGQEO)

If you can't sleep, you need to be chatting up something trivial. Not family; not work; not economy....do you have any hobbies?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 12:52 AM (T1005)

456 Leftist like to claim that capitalism is a religion. If that were so, we'd have one commonsense commandment against mortal sin: Though shalt not issue money backed by nothing of substance.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 12:52 AM (bPxS6)

457 ..do you have any hobbies? Doubt anything you Mensa members care about. Somebody mentioned chili way unthread... Anybody got a kickass recipe?

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 12:58 AM (jGQEO)

458 458 Leftist like to claim that capitalism is a religion. If that were so, we'd have one commonsense commandment against mortal sin: Though shalt not issue money backed by nothing of substance.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 04:52 AM (bPxS6)

===

all money is backed by the same thing -- shared willingness to exchange the limited hours of one's life to get it.

In short -- time coupons. Nothing more, nothing less.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 12:59 AM (PlzOe)

459 Who knows a decent online source for old vinyl LP values? I know condition will be a factor, but where should I start? I have about 400 to go through...

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:02 AM (jGQEO)

460 458 Leftist like to claim that capitalism is a religion. If that were so, we'd have one commonsense commandment against mortal sin: Though shalt not issue money backed by nothing of substance.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 04:52 AM (bPxS6)

Ain't that the truth?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:08 AM (T1005)

461 461 Who knows a decent online source for old vinyl LP values? I know condition will be a factor, but where should I start?
I have about 400 to go through...

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 05:02 AM (jGQEO)

Because condition is such a factor, it's all about in-person estimation.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:11 AM (T1005)

462 Cleaning out my office lately, making a bedroom out of it for my little man. came across a stack of magazines some of you nerds would probably get a kick out of... I have "Heavy Metal" from 1981 -1982. Maybe a full year of '81. I haven't looked through them yet, but I used to love that rag when I was a teen.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:13 AM (jGQEO)

463 464 Cleaning out my office lately, making a bedroom out of it for my little man. came across a stack of magazines some of you nerds would probably get a kick out of...
I have "Heavy Metal" from 1981 -1982. Maybe a full year of '81. I haven't looked through them yet, but I used to love that rag when I was a teen.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 05:13 AM (jGQEO)

====

any old Mad's?

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 01:16 AM (PlzOe)

464 462 458
Leftist like to claim that capitalism is a religion. If that were so,
we'd have one commonsense commandment against mortal sin: Though shalt
not issue money backed by nothing of substance.

Posted by: Epobirs at December 10, 2013 04:52 AM (bPxS6)

Ain't that the truth?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 05:08 AM (T1005)

===

Weird thought of the moment --

If you think about it, (since money is inedible, you can't live inside it, it makes shitty clothes, you can't drink it, and it won't keep you very warm for very long) money is actually defined by what people are willing to do to get it.

So, when the welfare state gets to be large enough -- where too many people are actually unwilling to do anything at all to get money -- there is no way to make money backed by anything of substance.

No willingness = no value.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 01:19 AM (PlzOe)

465 I thing so, JC. And some Cracked. Probably the same time frame or even earlier. I know few years back I let a buddy "borrow" some of my comics. And I'm talking very early, plastic-protected Spider Man type shit. Bad mistake. Give me a sec...

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:21 AM (jGQEO)

466 Just as a random comment.....our house was originally built in 1955. It was in the shape of a rectangle, with a garage that made it an 'L', and wasn't insulated for crap. In 1986, the original rectangle was extended by 6' and the garage was turned into a family room with standard 1986 insulation (and a new garage built).

Since we bought the place, we've removed all the blown-in crap in the attic and laid in fiberglass batts, removed the short wall of the rectangle where it wasn't extended and insulated it, and insulated between the floor and the crawlspace. In 2004, we rebuilt the kitchen and insulated that.

To summarize, we probably have the most insulated home in our subdivision.....and I can feel "echoes" of how cold it is outside.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:23 AM (T1005)

467 JC A couple Mads from '79. Mostly Cracked from '78 -'80 ( looks like I have a Star Wars issue).

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:31 AM (jGQEO)

468 So, when the welfare state gets to be large enough -- where too many people are actually unwilling to do anything at all to get money -- there is no way to make money backed by anything of substance.
No willingness = no value.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 05:19 AM (PlzOe)

=====

and, in a weird way, this is one of the reasons why TFG's minions think everything is racism.

Thinking goes like this -- everything is a scam and a ripoff at all times anyway (in their minds and by their projection of their morals onto everyone else)-- so if people willingly participate in an economy and try hard during the time of one regime, and then become unwilling during the time of another regime -- there cannot be a valid explanation that would be -- 'I quit producing when that asshole took over because it was obvious that someone was going to steal everything I made' --

That explanation simply cannot be real (to them) because all regimes steal everything anyway (in their minds because they project their own morals onto everyone else). Therefore, the answer must be racism (ie. you let your asshole steal from you, but you are too racist to let my asshole steal from you), since your refusal to take risks during leftist regimes cannot be your honest aversion to theft by that leftist regime.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 01:35 AM (PlzOe)

469 Have you insulated the crawlspace, Cth? I've been working on that this last year. It makes a big difference. I know what you mean about the cold spots. I get free leftover insulation sometimes from jobsites (double up the wall stuff for the floors). Mine was built in '53, I just laid batts across the old stuff in the attic.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:36 AM (jGQEO)

470 469 JC

A couple Mads from '79. Mostly Cracked from '78 -'80 ( looks like I have a Star Wars issue).

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 05:31 AM (jGQEO)

===

I don't know if those have monetary value or not. I used to love Mad. It treated kids like they could think. Stupid humor, but you had to know something to get it.

Posted by: jc at December 10, 2013 01:38 AM (PlzOe)

471 Duh - I see your crawlspace comment. (I was distracted by 25 year old Cracked magazines!)

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:43 AM (jGQEO)

472 Math is hard. Maybe that's my clue to kick the dog out into the rain and try once again to get some sleep.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 01:48 AM (jGQEO)

473 471 Have you insulated the crawlspace, Cth? I've been working on that this last year. It makes a big difference. I know what you mean about the cold spots.
I get free leftover insulation sometimes from jobsites (double up the wall stuff for the floors).
Mine was built in '53, I just laid batts across the old stuff in the attic.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 05:36 AM (jGQEO)

There's insulation under the floors -- but, as is usual, some has fallen. It's a crawlspace, and it's not rigorously policed.

Before we bought this house, we'd found this guy for odd jobs. He's like a force of nature in terms of getting things done, and will launch into anything you can describe to him. I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that getting him the tools and supplies he needs and getting out of his way are a major challenge -- and when we do, he usually manages to end up in better shape after getting things actually done than I do in working out logistics and helping things.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 01:49 AM (T1005)

474

Slow even for a Monday night...

Lost a patient in the ER tonight. Did everything I could, but this time the Reaper won. Only 17 more working days for me this month (full time for an ER doc who works 12 hour shifts is generally 10 days/month).

Posted by: Conservative Crank at December 10, 2013 01:55 AM (b2cFu)

475 Sad news, Crank. I guess you kind of get used to that, tho. Another family that will hate this season for the rest of their lives.

Posted by: shredded chi at December 10, 2013 02:05 AM (jGQEO)

476 I've shut down the house and was actually getting into bed before I thought to come back and emphasize one thing -- "crony capitalism" is at least as dangerous as the QE/national debt issue.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 02:07 AM (T1005)

477 476
Slow even for a Monday night...
Lost a patient in the ER tonight. Did everything I could, but this time the Reaper won. Only 17 more working days for me this month (full time for an ER doc who works 12 hour shifts is generally 10 days/month).

Posted by: Conservative Crank at December 10, 2013 05:55 AM (b2cFu)

Sad to hear, Crank. I'm glad you're fightin' 'im, though

Posted by: cthulhu at December 10, 2013 02:10 AM (T1005)

478 "What It's Like Being a Military Linguist"

This is a description of what it's like to be a military linguist? Don't think so. More a description of what's it like to try and become a military linguist and pretty slim info at that.

Signed 25 year veteran miltary linguist

Posted by: Lost in Maryland at December 10, 2013 02:33 AM (pcQ7s)

479 @109 What?! You're rating is manned mostly by women? What are you talking about? A particular language? What?

Posted by: Lost in Maryland at December 10, 2013 02:36 AM (pcQ7s)

480 Doctor have been at war with milk for a long time, but they are not the smartest people around; they voted for Obama.

Posted by: burt at December 10, 2013 06:51 AM (1+kJ5)

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