January 24, 2013
— Ace Ever notice that it's always the biological technology that's freaky? We have no problems with remote-controlled planes with frickin' laser beams but the second someone starts talking about organs it's weird. Technology is metal and plastic, not flesh, and when it's flesh, it's just strange.
At least for me. But videogame developers seem to agree (hey, we're going to freak you out with a biological gun that shoots out pieces of the user's bones) and so did (MACABRE/VIOLENT CONTENT WARNING) David Croenenberg.
Anyway, this is, I guess, potentially life-saving technology that just wigs me out.
Bio-printers, Wired reports, “have the potential to change the way medical research is conducted, even print living tissue and replacement organs, but they are expensive and highly specialized. They literally build living structures, like blood vessels or skin tissue, cell by cell, revolutionizing biomedical engineering.”The bioprinters available today are expensive and extremely complicated to operate, but BioCurious may change that. A talented team of hobbyists and scientists, led by Patrik D’haeseleer, who has worked at Harvard Medical School and the Lawrence Livermore National Lab, salvaged parts from ordinary printers and figured out how to print sheets of cells for experiments, all for about $150. One day, D’haeseleer hopes, these printers will churn out intact human tissue.
Imagine the revolution in medical care if affordable 3D printers can make replacement organs on demand. No longer will the grievously ill need to wait months or years for one to become available.
Your Mouth
...is 77% complete; installing Dentation sub-routine.
Rumors, etc.:
Print is not dead!-- Dr. Varno
Posted by: Ace at
12:58 PM
| Comments (159)
Post contains 272 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: Arbalest at January 24, 2013 01:00 PM (N2Nls)
....Are the cells already in sheets and being printed upon, or are they loading up stuff into the ink/toner tanks and getting cells out?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:01 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 24, 2013 01:02 PM (RWS3b)
Posted by: Anthony Weiner at January 24, 2013 01:03 PM (FcR7P)
Sheets of cells is one thing.
Tissues are let's say an order of magnitude harder to accomplish. (estimate)
Organs (which are multiple types of tissues) would be an order of magnitude harder than that I'd imagine.
Similarly, we can culture cells like crazy these days.
Tissue culture is becoming easier.
Organ culture is almost entirely nonexistent minus a few fluke cases (we can grew new windpipes and bladders regularly now, I think a few have even been used in transplants)
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 24, 2013 01:04 PM (Dcokn)
..."The bioprinters available today are expensive and extremely complicated to operate, but BioCurious may change that. "
The company is called...'BioCurious'?
Heh.
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:04 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:04 PM (LCRYB)
The Obamanites have halted the use of animal testing to sooth their PETA friends.
Posted by: Vic at January 24, 2013 01:05 PM (53z96)
Posted by: maddogg at January 24, 2013 01:05 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: mr_jack at January 24, 2013 01:05 PM (TMG3G)
Jaded.
Notice how the Federation abandoned the concept of money? TNG harped on that in several episodes.
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:07 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: garrett at January 24, 2013 01:07 PM (nvIEZ)
So that's another problem they'd have to solve.
I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying the headline and the American-Interest article has overstated the current level of technology. It's still pretty cool. (I mean the fact the the cell can survive that printing.)
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 24, 2013 01:07 PM (Dcokn)
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-BioPrinter/
"(Stay tuned for an instructable on how to make your own GFP-expressing E. coli)."
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:08 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:08 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: tasker at January 24, 2013 01:09 PM (r2PLg)
Leeloo gets "printed" up when she's revived.
MULL TEE PASS!!!!
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:09 PM (GQ8sn)
15...Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 05:04 PM (LCRYB)
They got into 'replicator technology' in more depth, in some episodes of Star Trek Voyager...
Because they were running out of raw materials to feed into their replicators.
It made more sense to me after that.
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:09 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:10 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 24, 2013 01:10 PM (RWS3b)
Posted by: Vic at January 24, 2013 05:05 PM (53z96)
WAIT WHAT?! I assume you're referring to the chimp thing. I could discuss that at length another day (I have to go soon.)
The TL;DR of it would be "well it's bad policy, but at least it's not the worst policy, but it's definitely a foot in the door for PETA. Good news is it won't slow down science, bad news expect them to push harder."
But if they're already pushing hard, that's bad bad bad news. I'll need to speed up on my dissertation (which somewhat ironically is on the negative effects of slowing animal research on both science in general and human subjects research safety.)
My department is telling me it'd be one of the few Pro-Animal research books to come out of the academy since Singer co opted the entire argument.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 24, 2013 01:10 PM (Dcokn)
I thought it was transferring energy into matter and back again, and not constructing something out of other raw materials.
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:11 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:11 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Bio-Curious, Inc. at January 24, 2013 01:11 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: maddogg at January 24, 2013 01:11 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 24, 2013 01:12 PM (QKKT0)
Ironically in DS9 there were still restaurants on earth (Sisko's dad owned one) because you couldn't replicate decent food apparently.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 24, 2013 01:12 PM (Dcokn)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 24, 2013 05:11 PM (p/cQy)
Nah. Vagina's themselves are disgusting
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at January 24, 2013 01:12 PM (FKQng)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 24, 2013 01:12 PM (GBXon)
Posted by: Tuna at January 24, 2013 01:13 PM (M/TDA)
Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at January 24, 2013 01:13 PM (J6kXj)
Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at January 24, 2013 01:13 PM (J6kXj)
Picard's family still owned a vineyard...because for some reason, they could replicate everything but alcohol.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:14 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 24, 2013 01:14 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 24, 2013 01:14 PM (BVNTz)
Posted by: dantesed at January 24, 2013 01:14 PM (++FkS)
34 Because they were running out of raw materials to feed into their replicators.
I thought it was transferring energy into matter and back again, and not constructing something out of other raw materials.
---------
Weren't they canibalizing parts of their ship...Voyager...to feed into their replicators?
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:15 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:16 PM (LCRYB)
I don't remember them doing that.
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:16 PM (GQ8sn)
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-BioPrinter/step7/Success/
Kind of a big step from that to "print organs at home!" but science journalists are just as dumb as regular journalists.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:16 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 24, 2013 01:16 PM (GBXon)
Posted by: Bawney Fwank at January 24, 2013 01:17 PM (uRumV)
>>>I keep hearing good things about With the Lightnings. maybe I'll try that.
Outland (Stars Sean Connery)
Soylent Green (Stars Charlton Heston)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 24, 2013 01:17 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: MoJoTee at January 24, 2013 01:17 PM (e1kfW)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 24, 2013 01:17 PM (GBXon)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:18 PM (LCRYB)
49...Picard's family still owned a vineyard...because for some reason, they could replicate everything but alcohol.
Rigellian Ale was haled as being much better than the 'synthehol' that came out of the replicators.
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:18 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 24, 2013 01:19 PM (BVNTz)
Is that why the Voyager used those gel packs? I never understood what those were for.
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:19 PM (GQ8sn)
Does she have a sister named Dee?
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 05:15 PM (GQ8sn)
No.... but there is Deedee
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 24, 2013 01:19 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Bio-Curious, Inc. at January 24, 2013 01:20 PM (r2PLg)
Forbidden Planet
The original "Alien"
2001 AND 2010 (You can't watch just one)
Blade Runner
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 24, 2013 01:20 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 24, 2013 01:21 PM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at January 24, 2013 01:21 PM (1hekh)
Later shows, especially Deep Space 9, made it quite clear that the concept of money was alive and well in the galaxy and even within the Federation. It was more of a Starfleet thing than a Federation thing. But career military has always had that problem. You won't get rich spending a couple decades in Starfleet but where else are you going to get access to such toys as a Sovereign class heavy cruiser or whatever they designate the latest iteration of the Enterprise.
Imagine the heavily filtered subset of the military is the first, and for a good while only, portion of Earth's populace you encounter. You might get a very distorted idea of what civilian life on Earth is like.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:21 PM (kcfmt)
Bio-computation. Living cells are a much more compact form for massively parallel computation than say microchips.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 24, 2013 01:22 PM (0q2P7)
Raw materials and printing templates will be the new gold.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 24, 2013 01:23 PM (eHIJJ)
64 Weren't they canibalizing parts of their ship...Voyager...to feed into their replicators?
They needed organic 'raw material' to work with. One episode had that as a plot point, complete with Janeway making a comment about 'There's coffee in that nebula!'
--------
Yep.
And also, wasn't there an episode where the ship was all beat up...and they needed to make some crucial parts to get under way?
So they were using 'non essential' pieces of the ship to feed into the replicators.
It's been a while, so maybe I am mis-remembering.
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:23 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 24, 2013 01:23 PM (NzBQO)
Posted by: Bio-Curious, Inc. at January 24, 2013 01:23 PM (r2PLg)
The Ferengi were supposed to represent the Jews?
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:24 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Lance Armstrong at January 24, 2013 01:24 PM (jVAw4)
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:25 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: NBC at January 24, 2013 01:25 PM (jVAw4)
There's what, $10 worth of chemicals in the human body?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:26 PM (ZKzrr)
That was the writers trying to be ahead of the curve. At the time the show was being developed there were articles appearing about using DNA as a computational platform. (And it is still being explored for applications such as this: http://tinyurl.com/ar22yje ) So they thought they'd be clever by making a highly speculative area of technology a standard part of the ship's design.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:26 PM (kcfmt)
Print is not dead!
Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 24, 2013 05:02 PM (OzEdP)
Whatever you say, champ.
Posted by: Dr. Spengler at January 24, 2013 01:26 PM (7xeJQ)
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 05:21 PM (kcfmt)
Yes.... the Federation still used money.... otherwise they would not be following the Rules of Acquisition!
So... pay up there Ensign.... that Romulan Ale is 7 Quatloos...
Posted by: Quark... Ferengi is good Standing at January 24, 2013 01:26 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: wooga at January 24, 2013 01:26 PM (zqbIA)
"Set up a computational problem as a 2D pattern of engineered microbes on an agar plate."
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 24, 2013 01:27 PM (ZKzrr)
So yeah, there's no scarcity in the Star Trek universe except for outside of Starfleet.
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:27 PM (GQ8sn)
So... pay up there Ensign.... that Romulan Ale is 7 Quatloos...
or three ounces of Pressed Latinum...
Posted by: Quark... Ferengi is good Standing at January 24, 2013 01:27 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Armed Kulak at January 24, 2013 01:27 PM (fR6i8)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:27 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:28 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:29 PM (LCRYB)
49...Picard's family still owned a vineyard...because for some reason, they could replicate everything but alcohol.
Rigellian Ale was haled as being much better than the 'synthehol' that came out of the replicators.
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 05:18 PM (fH4X9)
That's Romulan Ale you heathen.
Posted by: Austin in TX at January 24, 2013 01:29 PM (GBY9g)
A matter of perspective. Every culture has an ethnic group it characterizes as manically avaricious. Roddenberry was still around when the Ferengi were introduced and he was Jewish himself, so it had to pass muster with him.
Between Roddenberry, Shatner, and Nimoy, the original show had Mel Brooks beat by many years, as Star Trek really was Jews in space!
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:30 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: polynikes at January 24, 2013 01:31 PM (m2CN7)
How far did you get?
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:31 PM (GQ8sn)
Try "The Lost Fleet" Series, Military Sci Fi with relativity being a serious consideration in planning. Also doesn't fall into the Carrier in Space cliche.
Posted by: Armed Kulak at January 24, 2013 05:27 PM (fR6i
I second that recommendation.
Posted by: Austin in TX at January 24, 2013 01:31 PM (GBY9g)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 24, 2013 01:32 PM (xSegX)
Space toilets clean themselves!
Posted by: EC at January 24, 2013 01:32 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: rdbrewer at January 24, 2013 01:33 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Jean at January 24, 2013 01:34 PM (Io7hX)
Posted by: ace at January 24, 2013 01:34 PM (LCRYB)
BioCurious??
We had a receptionist once that was doing things on the internet she should not be doing. Found out she put up a post on C.L. that said she was BiCurious.... guessing its not the same.
Posted by: AndrewsDad at January 24, 2013 01:34 PM (C2//T)
"These people are still using money."
Kirk said this in that movie about saving the Whales...
Which one was that? Star Trek VI?
Posted by: wheatie at January 24, 2013 01:35 PM (fH4X9)
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 24, 2013 01:35 PM (29+x5)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 24, 2013 01:36 PM (OzEdP)
Posted by: Dr. Peyton Westlake at January 24, 2013 01:36 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: The Strogg at January 24, 2013 01:37 PM (twze8)
Posted by: polynikes at January 24, 2013 01:37 PM (m2CN7)
If Full Metal Alchemist is to be trusted.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 24, 2013 01:39 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: CAC at January 24, 2013 01:39 PM (GdFam)
>>>by the way, can anyone recommend some sci-fi? I'm getting bored with my spy kick and am ready to move on.
I'm not into Sci-fi but when the subject comes up I always recommend Armor by John Steakly. Loved the beginning of that book. The rest is pretty good also.
Posted by: polynikes at January 24, 2013 01:39 PM (m2CN7)
Perhaps they meant "physical" money, as in dollars and coins, and not something like a "debit" card. That's always be an undercurrent of certain strains of SF, the disappearance of "money".
How does any economy operate without some means of exchange? How about dilithium miners, and building ships from alloys? Who pays them?
There was an early episode in Star Trek TOS when the Enterprise makes orbit around a world where the dilithium crystals were mined, and a lot of hokum about buying them, because all of the crystals on Enterprise got ruined saving Harry Mudd's backside.
The premise of "no money" is ridiculous on its face. It's just SF writers mentally masturbating.
Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes...... at January 24, 2013 01:40 PM (RFeQD)
There's a saying amongst the officers: If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. If it's not worth doing, give it to Rimmer.
Posted by: Holly at January 24, 2013 01:42 PM (ZKzrr)
I think that was one of the occasions where they brought in time travel as a device that let them kill people and break stuff like crazy because by the end reality would get reset and none of it would be part of the new timeline.
Those episodes are fun in terms of the FX crew going nuts but after a while you learn to see them coming and stop feeling any engagement with the characters, as they'll only be inconvenienced rather than truly dead.
There was a lot of stuff they talked about in the original show bible that they didn't get to do in most of the series. The idea was that they'd be perpetually hard up for resources. The replicators could reconfigure matter to be anything you wanted, provided you had the necessary information but the energy cost was quite high. This meant there was never enough power to get everything done, and a lack of trained personnel to do it all besides.
So a lot of the crew would be living in crappy quarters because the ship was being perpetually repaired. But like the California freeways it was very difficult just to keep up with normal maintenance of trying to cover a distance in a reasonable time frame that was many time greater than the distances the ship was expected to travel in its entire operating life, including stays in dry dock for major overhauls. Add to that damage from attacks and other mishaps.
The designers wanted to have things really rough on Voyager but all too soon they decided it would just be another outlet for the Trek formula while DS9 got most of the good jobs.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:42 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: Tantor at January 24, 2013 01:43 PM (659DL)
Posted by: Tuna at January 24, 2013 01:44 PM (M/TDA)
Printing up Kate Upton is an idea, but would she come with Kate Upton's memories, or would she be a blank slate? If the latter, you have essentially a 20-something that has to be taught how to walk, feed herself, use the toilet, speak a recognizable language, etc., etc.
Interesting sci-fi question, I think. Apply it to cloned soldiers as well...
Posted by: Grey Fox at January 24, 2013 01:44 PM (4vofC)
A couple of offbeat sci fi recos -- James Sheffield for sciencey sci fi and John Varley for well written prognostication.
Posted by: GnuBreed at January 24, 2013 01:45 PM (ccXZP)
Larry Niven suggested a long time ago that the likely basis of a future economy would be applicable energy. When you can do whatever you want with matter and there is no shortage of it thanks to asteroid mining and fusion to produce whatever elements you cannot find in sufficient quantity, there remains the one input you cannot do without.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:46 PM (kcfmt)
The premise of "no money" is ridiculous on its face. It's just SF writers mentally masturbating.
Somewhere out there on the internetz is a pretty good article on how fascist Star Trek often is, particularly the Next Generation.
Posted by: Grey Fox at January 24, 2013 01:46 PM (4vofC)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 24, 2013 01:49 PM (GBXon)
I look forward to the day I can purchase a bio-printer on Amazon that prints out exact, living copies of Megan Fox.....I'll need at least a dozen.
It's the damn cartridges that are going to be ball busters though...we all know it. And if you try to use a generic no name refilled cartridge, you end up with multiple copies of Helen Thomas running around your house.....naked. And asking for a little loving.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at January 24, 2013 01:50 PM (L7hol)
That becomes a matter of understanding how knowledge is encoded and selectively having those patterns in place when your new organism becomes active.
Stephin Goldin, IIRC, had a novel entitled The Eternity Brigade. A soldier becomes increasingly detached from his era of birth as first the technology is developed to freeze time around an object, allowing combatants and colonists to be shipped across interstellar distances. Then another technology makes it possible to perfectly duplicate any object including living beings, memories and all.
This leads to a battle where the protagonist finds himself fighting on both sides.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:50 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 24, 2013 01:53 PM (e0xKF)
If you have replicators you don't even need to clean the toilet. So long as energy isn't a problem, your cabin's replicator produces a chamber pot, you do your business, then the whole thing, chamber pot and all its contents, is converted back into energy patterns until somebody needs something else made up using the same elements.
Given the energy, it's a very efficient recycling system. Very frustrating for archeologists of a later era who'd have no trash to examine.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:56 PM (kcfmt)
Nah, remarkable as it seems, they're made of the same stuff. It's all in the data file and the RIP in your printing software.
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 01:58 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: Grey Fox at January 24, 2013 05:44 PM (4vofC)
Egads, pedophilia in spirit.
Always bothered me that there's this DS game (Hotel Dusk) where you save this girl who went into a coma at 13 and woke up at 18. She's treated as a love interest of sorts, but she's mentally 13.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at January 24, 2013 02:15 PM (xGZ+b)
Posted by: epobirs at January 24, 2013 05:58 PM (kcfmt)
Future DRM. Instead of Batman being unable to glide from building to building, you print something that requires Brain Bleach to un-see.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at January 24, 2013 02:18 PM (xGZ+b)
Posted by: CraigPoe at January 24, 2013 02:23 PM (BVkEs)
Posted by: The Great Oz at January 24, 2013 02:24 PM (2+bRt)
Posted by: Steff McKee at January 24, 2013 02:40 PM (ayotl)
Posted by: simpleton at January 24, 2013 03:05 PM (NGsLN)
Posted by: mojo at January 24, 2013 06:50 PM (B/weO)
Posted by: Brian at January 25, 2013 07:05 AM (wTSvK)
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Posted by: Flapjackmaka at January 24, 2013 12:59 PM (FKQng)