1 not first

2 heh

3 Republican leadership in  Congress have one job: get themselves reelected. NOTHING else matters.

4 Amen, brother!

5 Amen. It's time that conservatives start being the dirty-tricksters we are constantly accused of being. It's time we start stealing pages from the Democrat playbook, because they've been kicking our asses since 2006.

6 Rush said it best yesterday. Obama will never be held accountable because he doesn't govern. I want to know when he actually sits behind a desk and reads reports, takes briefings and consults with experts on the issues of the day. I read his schedule for yesterday and it consisted of flying on air force 1, sitting in a kindergarten class and flying back to D.C. where he did a Facebook thingie. This is what a president does with his time?!
I always thought that Bush got up at 5:30, exercised and then went to work. When he made a decision, everyone knew that he had taken consul and then made the hard choice. This guy looks everyone in the eye and then votes present. the jets off the play golf or vacation or deliver another vacuous speech.

7

But he has mastered one thing all too well:

He manipulates the Republican party extremely effectively.


==============


That's like mastering taking candy from a baby.  Not his strength but their weakness.

8 >If we have to take off the gloves, hit below the belt, play dirty pool, or whatever metaphor you prefer for playing dirty...and winning....then I am all for it.

Me too. Let's tear into them. Let us cut out their living guts, and use them to grease the wheels on our campaign buses.

Also, NBC Sports Network is covering curling LIVE.


Dammit, man PEOPLE ARE CURLING

9 Can't be done without a cleansing burn. I would prefer a divorce, but that won't happen. You have the Dims, the Rinos, the Media, the FSA, and an apathetic population to overcome. Not going to happen. Burning us our only hope.

10 The first step should be the easiest. Go after the quislings like Rove, Scarborough, Christie, Brooks, etc

The MSM won't protect them like they do their boyfriend and their fellow traveler socialist Dems

11 The next generation has been raised to believe that Republicans are basically the KKK. Most younger people are also pro gay marriage and pro choice. Until Republicans can shed their White Party image and scrap platforms that turn off single issue voters, they are going to continue to slowly slide into the dustbin of history.

12 I'm still pissed as hell at SMOD.

13 Someone should tell Boehner that there's no crying in politics.

14 The way to handle it in discussion with lefties is to toss a blank piece of paper on the table in front of them. Then draw a line across the sheet, put 0% at one and and 100% on the opposite side. Then ask them where government should end, just how much they should control our lives, our ability to make a living, and every other variable you can think of. Just where do they place the dot on that line.

They won't be able to do it. They'll call you an extremist for even insinuating that a thoroughly unsustainable level of spending or control is something that should be debated.

15 Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2013 11:03 AM (X6akg)

"Then we're stupid and we'll die."

[free platinum upgrade to your AOSHQ membership for the first one to identify the quotation]

16 I don't know about you folks, but I am tired of losing to these ignorant, race-baiting, anti-Semitic, anti-freedom bastards. If we have to take off the gloves, hit below the belt, play dirty pool, or whatever metaphor you prefer for playing dirty...and winning....then I am all for it. America is was the greatest country in history, and I would prefer to see it return to its former glory before I die. Amen- And yes we haver to get down and dirty to fight these bastards. The Joosey way

17 It bears repeating: "Where would we be without Charlie Brown's Dildo?"

18 This guy looks everyone in the eye and then votes present. the jets off the play golf or vacation or deliver another vacuous speech.
Posted by: Sharon at February 16, 2013 11:01 AM

TFG's modis operandi has always been "lead from behind". Every step of the way on his career path starting with this "editor of the Harvard Law Review" has been to let others do all the hard work, then step in when it's done to grab the credit for all of it.

19

Excellent post sir.  We all have to work on overcoming the bias in the media on a daily basis it seems, the way the MSM fawns over every lefty but especially Obama is sickening.... every conversation I have with a lefty is filled on their end with strawmen and DNC talking points that are constantly spread as "truth" by the MSM.  You can point out where they are wrong, you can point out the history of death and misery by big governments throughout the world and yet, that night/week etc, on the news, you'll hear lefty after lefty pushing big government "solutions" to every problem under the sun.  The media is the enemys propaganda attack dog and we have to defeat them somehow someway.

 

Frustrating at times, beyond measure.

20 "Then we're stupid and we'll die." [free platinum upgrade to your AOSHQ membership for the first one to identify the quotation] Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 16, 2013 11:07 AM (GsoHv) Blade Runner

21 All you need to know about 21st century America is Rahm Emmanuel may be considering a run for president.

22 Also, NBC Sports Network is covering curling LIVE.


Dammit, man PEOPLE ARE CURLING

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 16, 2013 11:04 AM (8sCoq)

Bless you!  (I'm serious!)

23 We either take off the gloves and embrace Alinsky, -- because after all, WE are the radicals now -



Do we have to dress ironically and stop bathing?

24 8 Dammit, man PEOPLE ARE CURLING

------------

Everyone knows that one of the more subtle effects of Global Warming Weirdening is a temporary sharp increase in curling as the ice cap adjusts to the new normal.

25
Blade Runner

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 16, 2013 11:08 AM (GEICT)

Tell the man what he's won, CBD!!!

26 12 I'm still pissed as hell at SMOD.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 11:05 AM

Actually we don't need the whole SMOD, just a SMOD Jr like the Russian meteor.  A few seconds later on that explosion and a whole city is nuked.

One of those blowing up over DC would sure do some good without sending the whole world back to the Stone Age

27 jane i'm disappointed in smod too....and the the mayans.....and myself for believing in them....

28 All you need to know about 21st century America is Rahm Emmanuel may be considering a run for president.

You might also need to know is that if he runs, he'll win. He makes the ladies all wet.

(I know, not the ones here. Not those...eight.)

29 "10 The first step should be the easiest. Go after the quislings like Rove, Scarborough, Christie, Brooks, etc

The MSM won't protect them like they do their boyfriend and their fellow traveler socialist Dems"


Yes they will. They will fight even harder for them because they provide the veneer of credibility to their liberal activism.

30 "You're our only hope, CBD-ken-obi."

31 Blade Runner

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 16, 2013 11:08 AM (GEICT)

Nicely done (no googling I hope).

1. An all-expenses paid tour of the underground bunker (his mom's basement) where Ace keeps his most prized pelts.

2. A foot massage from Sean Bannion

3. A free upgrade to the Platinum membership, which includes (if supported by your AOL account) 10 free ampersands/month.

32 You might also need to know is that if he runs, he'll win. He makes the ladies all wet. Posted by: oblig. at February 16, 2013 11:13 AM (cePv Were they puking so hard they pissed themselves?

33 You can point out where they are wrong, you can point out the history of death and misery by big governments throughout the world and yet, that night/week etc, on the news, you'll hear lefty after lefty pushing big government "solutions" to every problem under the sun. The media is the enemys propagandaattack dogand we have to defeat them somehow someway.

Frustrating at times, beyond measure. Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at February 16, 2013 11:08 AM

It's futile, trust me. All you'll get from them is a dismissive; "that's just Faux News propaganda paid for by the Koch Brothers". You can't debate the obtuse

It would be easier to train Chris Christie to win the New York Marathon than reason with a lefty drone

Some people just have to learn the hard way, and even then more than half of them will reach the wrong conclusion

34 3. A free upgrade to the Platinum membership, which includes (if supported by your AOL account) 10 free ampersands/month. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 16, 2013 11:14 AM (GsoHv) You can donate those to a needy child. &&&&&&&&&&&

35 2. A foot massage from Sean Bannion Yup, got the peppermint foot lotion, 100 grit sandpaper and belt sander all set to go.

36 No, these fuckers are just playing dumb. They want to keep their jobs and all their perks, but they don't want their constituents to know that. So, they are extremely vulnerable to blackmail, which is how this Resident cut his teeth, shaking down banks and other old white guy institutions "for social justice." The Republican leadership is out of its depth with scum like the Chicago crime syndicate. They have gotten fat, lazy, complacent and obsolete, much like the electorate itself, which is happy to just kick the can down the road and live irresponsibly. Tea partiers yell, "Think of the children!" But they don't have a lobby in DC. No one gives a eats ass about children, just looking good caring about the right things.

37
&&&&&&&&&&&

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 16, 2013 11:16 AM (GEICT

Stop showing off.

38 bc, when i did that i broke the blog, you have mad skills &

39 29 All you need to know about 21st century America is Rahm Emmanuel may be considering a run for president.

You might also need to know is that if he runs, he'll win. He makes the ladies all wet.

(I know, not the ones here. Not those...eight.) Posted by: oblig. at February 16, 2013 11:13 AM

What's interesting is Rahmbo vs Cankles.  Each know where the other has the bodies buried

40

Do we have to dress ironically and stop bathing?

 

Heh, soon we won't be able to afford clothes  or water, so it's possible.

 

We could, however, dust off some old bumper stickers like "Question Authority" and "If you aren't outraged, you're not paying attention."

41 9 Can't be done without a cleansing burn. I would prefer a divorce, but that won't happen. You have the Dims, the Rinos, the Media, the FSA, and an apathetic population to overcome. Not going to happen. Burning us our only hope. ----- LA Sheriff Department

42 You can donate those to a needy child.

&&&&&&&&&&&

Now you're making Sally Struthers hungry.

43 We look at the other side and we call them liars and demagogues and we decry all their tactics, their bullshit appeals to emotion and 'fairness' and what not, but guess what-

they're winning

You wanna be a radical conservative? You wanna beat those leftist cocksuckers?

Steal their playbook. And escalate.

We have all at one time or another bandied about the quote, 'they bring a knife, we bring a gun. They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue.' Well, this is how we will win. Not by being mushy moderates, but by being firebrands. First we shock our enemy by fighting back in the press, then we split him open from throat to crotch by attacking everything they believe in, relentlessly. Name names. State fact. Challenge them to prove us wrong, then declare they have failed. Shame them. Insult them. Demagogue THEM.

The other side is playing dirty and playing for keeps. This is what it takes to win in American politics. Always has. But the current GOP leaders are by and large a bunch of pussies. All this shit about 'the comity of the Senate' and 'my distinguished colleague this' and 'my distinguished colleague' that has to go. We need to be shivving our opponents in the ribs, from behind, without warning, at every available opportunity.

It takes discipline. The other side has discipline. Always on message, always attacking, always protecting their own. IT WORKS.

Steal their playbook. Play not only to win, but to crush. We want heads on pikes, as a warning to the others.

Because we're getting our asses handed to us right now.

44 Some douchebag "writer" at Esquire wants to "cockpunch" Bill Hemmer at Fox:

http://tinyurl.com/bpp57vj


The guy looks like he's more suited to a hipster slap fight, and he'd lose.

45 But what about BEYONCE???

46 The media is an in winnable fight and has been since Capra filmed Me. Smith Goes To Washington. Yesterday's news. Busy up the union grip on education. Take out academia, and that's the first domino. I hate Christie, but I like that he went after the teachers. I like Walker better, because he has bigger balls than Christie and Kasich combined. Watch both of those sellouts run in 2016 with this Dr. Token Black With No Political Career reprising the Herman Cain role.

47 It's all accidental. No connections. How much were the House budget "cuts" again? 1.5 trill budget and what were the "cuts"? 1 to 2 million? Can not wait for Amnesty. Which is also accidental. Ignorant voter is right. Dense, too.

48 Yes, please!

49 "or resign ourselves to our and our children's fate; living in the socialist/statist utopia that Obama has dreamed of for his entire life."

When writing a serious and well-crafted post, as above, tell it like it is. We all know it won't be a utopia, it will be a nationwide hellhole. Sarcasm works in comments, but not in posts that should be read throughout the blogosphere.

Another point is that the Republican Party seems adrift because it doesn't have a standard bearer. Barry's Dem Party and their MSM hatchet persons have perfected the politics of personal destruction. The recent attack against Sarah Palin by a WP journalist (now "blogger") using a satire website as a "source" is a good example of the lengths they will go in order to prevent a coalescence around an political leader.

50 YES! THIS! THANK YOU! The current GOP elite are willing accomplices in the battering of America. The two parties are running a game where a woman yells "rape!" And when you rush to save her, both victim and the rapist stab you in the kidneys and steal your gold fillings for crack money. Supporting these assholes in the GOP leadership is asinine and suicidal. But what is the alternative? These assholes aren't going to change. And even if we throw these assholes out in primaries or whatever, the party bosses will just hand us the same assholes with a different name and face. So we need to change the party bosses. I know how to do this. Its going to be shitty and painful and take a rather long time. But everything is already going to be shitty and painful for a long time, so you have nothing to lose. My new PAC is my first major attempt to change the MA GOP. If I am successful, then what we do here can be replicated all over the country. Do you want to know more?

51 Does this Big Tent make my ass look big?

52 I'm in

53 The best analogy I can come up with is that the American people need an intervention.

54 You have the Dims, the Rinos, the Media, the FSA, and an apathetic population to overcome. Not going to happen. Sure it is, we just need an alternate route to the apathetic population. Could probably start with a sports network for a core. There's somebody out there who wants the media dollars of half the country.

55

I was just thinking about this in the shower.

 

How else did you think it was going to turn out?

 

 

How else did you think the Left would react?  The idealogical Left lives inside the host body of the Democratic Party.

 

After Reagan, after the end of the Cold War, after the Republicans surprised the Democrats in 1994 and took the House and Senate?  Did you think they would lay down and quit?

 

People recently quoted Milton Friedman (paraphrasing): We don't need to elect better people, we need to make the system work so that even bad people are compelled to do the right thing.

 

Think about this and reflect that it is actually working in reverse, where we can elect people we think are good Americans, and the system makes them do the wrong thing.  And of course the Media controls the narrative.

 

These guys (the Democrats and the Left inside) are playing for keeps and staying after it 24/7/365.   That's what we are up against. They control most of the Media, entertainment, the academy, education, the permament bureaucracy in the Federal government and most State governments (and I don't care if you live in Texas or any other "red" state - the Democrats are all over the permanent bureaucracy).

 

Their preferred candidate for the Republicans in 2016 is Chris Christie.  They will pimp for him the next few years, and deprecate any other candidate.  It remains to be seen how the Republican primaries will shake out, but that's the way the Democrats and the Media have ALREADY gamed it out.  They may even let Christie  WIN, and let the "Republicans" govern for four years, just to make it look  "fair" and keep fooling us that we have a real chance at changing anything.

 

 

CBD, nice post, but one change.  It is not a "socialist utopia" but a socialist dystopia that is our future.  We will be poorer, less free and worse off in the future, and even letting it burn will not change any of that.

56 Well, that might just piss off all of twitter. Good times.

57 SCOAMFy D is a loser shitbag, the strength such as it is is in the MFM telling LiV that reality is "x" without the cocksucking press he'd still be "WINNING!" Charlie Sheen style at pacifying his little corner of the fuckhole known as Shitcago.

58 Iranian Elites, Scholars Urge Morsi To Implement Sharia Law In EgyptÂ… Do they not read the news in Iran? They passed a sharia-based constitution weeks ago. Weasel Zippers. Another foreign policy victory for obama

59 The Republican response to the SOTU speech shouldn't be another speech.  It should be something people would want to watch, and that is comedy.  The 'response' to the SOTU speech should be a SNL - Monty Python type of mockery of the presidents points.  If done well, people would watch for the laughs and you would get your point across is a subtle way.  It would be refreshing since the SOTU event is so dry.

This is what the Left does, I meet so many people who get their political info from Lettermen, etc.

60 Posted by: mrp at February 16, 2013 11:23 AM (HjPtV)

Read Charles Fourier. "Socialist Utopia" is an old, old phrase.

I am not being sarcastic...I am being accurate.

61 To repeat my question from the dead thread:  Does anybody know where the source of animosity that McRINO has for Rove comes from other than McStain can be a dick 24/7?  As much as I hate Pudgy Karl, I always thought his involvement in some bogus accusations in South Carolina that Juan fathered a mulatto child was just the Maverick's diarrhea of the mouth whenever he gets around "his friends" in the MFM.

62 When a politician says "cuts", you have to remember Inigo Montoya; "you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

A "cut" is always a lower amount in the hike.

Obama wants 1 trillion more in "investments" but the GOP says they'll only agree to 900 billion more

That's your "100 billion dollar cut" that leftists wail will cause massive pain and suffering

63 Of course barky wants worldwide shari'a. He could make mooch keep her face covered.

64 "Read Charles Fourier. "Socialist Utopia" is an old, old phrase.

I am not being sarcastic...I am being accurate"

Sigh.

65 62 To repeat my question from the dead thread: Does anybody know where the source of animosity that McRINO has for Rove comes from other than McStain can be a dick 24/7? As much as I hate Pudgy Karl, I always thought his involvement in some bogus accusations in South Carolina that Juan fathered a mulatto child was just the Maverick's diarrhea of the mouth whenever he gets around "his friends" in the MFM.
Posted by: Captain Hate at February 16, 2013 11:30 AM

Rove pulled out all the stops and kicked constantly below the belt in the 2000 primaries.

Then he forgot how to do that against Democrats

66 10 The first step should be the easiest. Go after the quislings like Rove, Scarborough, Christie, Brooks, etc

The MSM won't protect them like they do their boyfriend and their fellow traveler socialist Dems

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 11:05 AM (mCvL4)

This , break the republican enablers first.

67

Some rich sumbitch should put up three or four billboards in Chris Matthews neighborhood calling him a leftwing biased hack and listing all the democrats he worked for after college ( I believe he was on five different staffs) and how he gets a thrill up his leg everytime he hears Obama speak and how he gets all his talking points from the DNC. 

 

Nail that f*cker good.

 

  CHRIS "TINGLES" MATTHEWS

 

  That would be pretty funny...... and piss tingles off big time...... which would be even funnier.   

*sigh*

  Why can't I win that powerball?  I'm not greedy.... I only want to win it once.  

68 I'm not Canadian, but I think curling is the greatest sport in the world, after baseball.

69 He could make mooch keep her face covered. Could be almost any six-foot tall black man inside that burqa...

70 An excellent post. Along those same lines, David Horowitz has this solid advice: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/02/david-horowitz-how-republicans-can-win.php

71 Public Populist...Private Tyrant In political science we have a term for that... It is called 'Fascist' Just sayin'

72 56
I was just thinking about this in the shower.

How else did you think it was going to turn out?

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 16, 2013 11:26 AM

When I'm in the shower, I'm thinking about what it would be like to have Kate Upton in there with me

But, whatever floats your boat

73 Contact the GOP official site and tell them it is time to get out of the way, and explain their failures since LBJ and to get to the back of the bus, slap em verbally like a rented mule...
And that fool Rove and his ORCA BS can move along as well.

74 Could be almost any six-foot tall black man inside that burqa... Posted by: t-bird at February 16, 2013 11:33 AM (FcR7P) And after he leaves office. it prolly will be.

75 Actually, the line is from Pris in Blade Runner and probably my favorite quote from the movie. I was just stuck over in the Overnight thread

76 Mornin' all. About to sit down and watch the Dr. Carson show from last night. Now, as I obviously hate TFG 'cause of his skin color (that's what they keep telling me) I should be seething with rage during this program.

77 Now, as I obviously hate TFG 'cause of his skin color (that's what they keep telling me) I should be seething with rage during this program. Posted by: RWC at February 16, 2013 11:34 AM (sqp6o) I guess white conservative people are the only ones that bought into the content of charecter not the color of the skin thing

78 One major appeal of watching curling is the avg wanker can watch it and say "I could totally do that. Give me that farkin' stone and let show you how it's done!" etc etc. Can't really do that with most other sports. Plus, a couple Olympics ago, we had some cute gals on our curling team

79 Updated to explain "socialist utopia."

80 The simple way to confound, confuse, and enrage a Democrat or a RINO is to say anything logical.

In the meantime, I just intend to watch it burn.

81

Obama is not a Muslim, but like many on the Left, think they can use it to forward their own agenda.

 

Islam is a Third World religion that is four square against Western traditions and Western intellectual thought.  It is four square against Christianity and Judaism.   And that is why Leftist intellectuals and a political hack like Obama give it lip service from time to time.  The Red Rider on the Green Horse of Islam.  They think they can use the religious energy of Islam to bring about some kind of worldwide revolution against the hated Western influences.

 

More like the Green Tiger.  It will devour them if given the chance.

82 I guess white conservative people are the only ones that bought into the content of charecter not the color of the skin thing Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 16, 2013 11:36 AM (l86i3) Well OSP, that is obviously,...wait for it.. RACIST!!! I do hope G*d grabs him by the collar and pushes him into service.

83 In case you missed this last night, Dr. Carson on w/ Hannity....full hour, live audience.



http://tinyurl.com/ceewfr9

84 Rove pulled out all the stops and kicked constantly below the belt in the 2000 primaries.

Then he forgot how to do that against Democrats

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 11:31 AM (mCvL4)

So are you saying that the accusations are possibly correct?  I don't think I've ever seen a link to substantiate them so was it a word of mouth thing?

85 Nobody in the GOP hierarchy is listening or is going to listen to you. Stop thinking big. If every goddamned regular and lurker on this blog all got together and spet all our time trying to challenge the national GOP, we'd make absolutely no dent whatsoever. There are too many of them and they know how to beat back republicans too well. Work locally. It's not as sexy and it's not as "important" but that's where things start changing. The national scene is seductive and quick, but it leads to ruin.

86 John Adams:"I must study Politicks and War that my sons may have liberty to study Mathematicks and Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematicks and Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce and Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry and Porcelaine." Cal Thomas can suck a fat one. Ben Carson for president!

87 I wonder how many ski slopes have been closed down this weekend for Mooch's private use? 

I'm trying hard not to picture her in ski pants.

88 "An uninformed populace is very easily manipulated." Such hateful remarks.

89

kbda @ 73

 

Kate Upton is a doll, but I am also old enough to be her Dad.  That just seems weird to me, but there is no doubt that she's a dish.  I do some of my best thinking in the shower.  I just thought it was weird that I was thinking about this and then come back here and , VOILA!, CBD has posted an essay about this very subject.

90 John Adams was one naive motherfucker, huh?

91 Am I the only one who notices when Bammy speaks off prompter, that dialic is suddenly Ebonics?

92 If only, from your lips to the r's ears, CBD, but your apt description of them is so true. I remembered seeing an interview w one of the LIV who commented that BO was "okay", but those vacations bothered her: IOW, her vote was in play. If Romney had someone intelligent working for him, those ads would been have running 24/7 on FX, Spike, and HGTV of the multiple vacations and how it cost taxpayers: you get a staycation; he gets a palace on the beach. Nothing like a little envy to make someone a lot less palatable. But, Romney tolerated being called a felon and murderer, unable to actually respond w some facts because he was above the fray. I am sick of this "nice guy" crap, while we have a bewildered, confused, senile old anti-Semite soon to be in charge of the military, which I fear will be the death of many of them. Every Senator that votes for Hagel will have blood on his or her hands and should be reminded of that daily.

93 Don't the actual Religions get to choose their rules? Jewish mother = jewish. Muslim father = muslim. Barky's dad was muslim, Barky went to muslim school. Barky was raised in a muslim country. FYNQ.

94 Form a Ward Committee in your ward with TWO other people. You immediately have the ability to fundraise and a share of the control of your town RTC. And LEGITIMACY within the GOP. Ward, town, county, state. It's a long slog. But the alternative is... Well, doing nothing productive.

95

"I don't know about you folks, but I am tired of losing to these ignorant, race-baiting, anti-Semitic, anti-freedom bastards. If we have to take off the gloves, hit below the belt, play dirty pool, or whatever metaphor you prefer for playing dirty...and winning....then I am all for it."

THIS by CBD

--------------------------------------

and THIS. Is why I come here.

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." HL Menken

 

96

Yes. But how? How do the "gloves come off" and who among these congenitally impuissant Republicans will do it?

A friend and I were discussing this last night. We're close to despair at the totally perverse and untenable world of discourse and politics the Left has created and imprisoned us all in. But we agreed it is a prison of the mind. We agreed that it would take just one person -- ONE mainstream political figure or Republican -- to confront a major media figure on national TV with such a determined, relentless and revelatory line of challenge that it turned the whole interrogatory paradigm of the media on its head. It would be a simple, unemotional but unwavering line of questioning that got to the heart of the corruption and ideology of the MSM. "Unwavering" would be the key. It would have to go further than ever before, show an absolute iron refusal to be diverted from its objective. Of course the media would then go after this villainous threat, but at the same time, they'd invite him on every one of their shows to attack him. Then he would just repeat the strategy -- calm, relentless challenge and revelation. Cascade effect. The base would be exhilarated, the media would unravel in rage, a new paradigm would begin to take shape.

97

Truman @ 86

 

That is exactly right.  It is a big seduction to think we can fix everything with just one turn of the election cycle.  What is wrong is rooted way down deep, and it will not turn our way again for many years, if ever.

98 To Truman North:
I'm in Mass and have given up hope. What are you doing and how can I help?

99 When it comes to most people's opinion of Big Government, they'll be like Matty Yglesias was last week when he complained about how hard it was to open a simple small business.

No matter how frustrated they get, no matter how many forms they have to fill out, no matter how many fees they have to pay and how much time they have to spend, they'll still conclude as Matty does that Big Brother knows best

They'll never learn that even if a government program is conceived by geniuses, it'll be administered by idiots

100 1. I was just mentioning in the last thread about how the RNC has been neutered, and is legally forbidden from challenging Democrat vote fraud in minority areas: http://tinyurl.com/cfjgvzc This, more than anything, is why we need a new party to replace the Republicans. A new party will not be bound by that agreement. 2. It doesn't matter what we do, as long as we have a universal franchise. Pure democracy is not a stable form of government. The Founders were well aware of that, which is why they created a republic, not a democracy. In a rational world, people who are receiving government assistance would not be allowed to vote. You can get welfare or you can vote. Pick one. The same goes for Social Security and Medicare. Once the amount of benefits you have received exceeds what you have paid in, it's welfare. Voting must become an earned privilege, not a right. If we don't do that, we're doomed.

101

<i>But the voters are more ignorant than ever, and they are being manipulated more effectively than ever.</i>

  

Remember the triumphalism of the New Media after Bush won in 2004?  How the Old Media had been toppled bloggers in pajamas and the Liberal Death Star no longer controlled the narrative?  What happened?

 

I remember realizing the resilient power of the mainstream media after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Bush's winning theme in 2004 was that he had kept us safe after 9/11.  It seemed to me the media and democrats had a pre-packaged propaganda plan ready to go should there ever be another terrorist attack, designed to disprove the premise that the Republicans could keep us safe.  When Katrina happened, this plan was opportunistically adapted to  a natural disaster in order to shatter the perception of competence of the administration.  After the stunning success of blaming Bush for the weather, the media smelled blood in the water and redoubled efforts to portray all of the War on Terror as a failure.  By the 2006 elections, the Republican brand was destroyed, and it has never recovered.  The media was then able to pin the 2008 financial crisis, caused in fact by the democrat slush fund operations at Freddie & Fannie, squarely on the Bush administration, effectively burying the Republicans for a generation.

 

The Death Star survived the internet, and stills reigns over the universe.  Today they look stronger than ever.  Any ideas?

 

102 For those who love Jpop girl-group fluff: "4th Ikimasshoi" -- Morning Musume.

103 LOL! Oops! Wrong thread!

104 95 Form a Ward Committee in your ward with TWO other people. You immediately have the ability to fundraise and a share of the control of your town RTC. And LEGITIMACY within the GOP.

Ward, town, county, state. It's a long slog. But the alternative is... Well, doing nothing productive.

Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 11:45 AM (ZhoXI)

Would like to know more.  Do you have a platform on which to inform?  Perhaps a guest post?

105 There is a simple reality that underlies this entire matter. The Republic can not function as a secular state. This Republic can only flourish in a Christian society, with a Christian people. All attempts to do otherwise will fail. Ace is a great example of why this is so. As a professed atheist he is unable to accept that there are moral absolutes, and so even when he advocates for conservatism, he advocates for soft-leftism. It's that very rot, even a little bit of moral relativism, that enters the field and spoils the whole crop. What is necessary is to recognize where we went wrong as a society morally, and correct those mistakes. Prayer must be returned to public schools. Abortion must be banned and those that practice it (the doctors, not the women) jailed. Government promotion of immorality must cease. The "no religious test" for public office was originally viewed to mean "no particular denomination", with an understanding that atheists were still barred. Just as atheists were prohibited from being members of the bar, judges, and also from giving testimony in court. It was understood that without God no morality or republic was possible. Our problem, at it's root, is a religious one. And now we see it's fruit as this new secular religion turns on the Catholic Church.

106

We need to start focusing on  the lies that Dims promote as the truth. The low hanging fruit is everywhere, just waiting to be picked and thrown at the nearest leftard.  How about asking why we should settle for a  negative GDP when we were experiencing good growth as recently as  ten years ago? Why are millions of Americans out of work who were working just five  years ago?

 

We have the figures and the truth on our side,  we just need    to start speaking up.

107 http://tinyurl.com/ceewfr9

Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2013 11:39 AM (X6akg) 

Tami, I really liked one of his opening lines in that discussion.

Where he states He wants to get the populace educated , because they cannot make decisions without being such. (not his exact wording)  and stated without doing so we would end up like all fallen nations in history.

108 Then he would just repeat the strategy -- calm, relentless challenge and revelation. Cascade effect. The base would be exhilarated, the media would unravel in rage, a new paradigm would begin to take shape. Posted by: rrpjr at February 16, 2013 11:46 AM

Then Kate Upton would appear in my shower. Desirable but not very likely

109 asking why we should settle for a negative GDP when we were experiencing good growth as recently as ten years ago? Why are millions of Americans out of work who were working just five years ago?

We have the figures and the truth on our side, we just need to start speaking up.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 16, 2013 11:51 AM (+z4pE)

If I may....

Still Bush's fault

110

If we don't fight back effectively, look at Detroit and see our future.

 

111 Ward, town, county, state. It's a long slog. But the alternative is... Well, doing nothing productive. Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 11:45 AM (ZhoXI) When the wife and I moved here to NC 5 years ago, there were 4 people at the GOP County meetings. These were old gaurd if you aint from here you ant shit people. No facebook page, no electronic communication, nothing. My wife stepped in and started a facebook page, slowly the crowds grew to a point where finding a place to hold the meetings was an issue. She was eventually elected Vice Chair and then had a small insurrection by Paulbots to deal with. They got pissed and formed there own org which quickly fell apart. Because of the effort of my wife and others that stepped up, they changed the schoolboard, elected 3 coservative Judges, turned the county board conservative, unseated Bev Perdue, the Gov. and kept the conservative NC house and senate seats red. Tru is right. It starts at the bottom.

112 There is hope ... and opportunity. (link via Glenn Reynolds)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c83d3nt (The American Interest)

Excerpt: (Key Democrats Turn on Obamacare)

Powerful Democrats who helped write and pass Obamacare subjected the new law’s chief administrator to withering criticism at a Senate hearing yesterday. Gary Cohen, the director of the Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight, testified before the Senate Finance Committee, and the Democrats on the committee—from its Chairman Max Baucus to Senators Ron Wyden, Bill Nelson, and Maria Cantwell—tore into him.

113 I don't think I have standing to run a guest post, but let me explain, my new PAC. The purpose of The Bristol County Republican Committee is simple: to give us the government we always wanted. Our mission is as follows: Our primary purpose is to recruit and fund conservative and/or libertarian Republican candidates for offices whose districts are in, or whose districts overlap Bristol County. For instance as of 2011, there are seven State Senate seats, fourteen State Representative seats, two Congressional seats, and several more local seats specific to the several cities and towns. Capturing and holding these positions with individuals who will work for limited government and individual liberty will be our primary purpose. To that end, we will engage in the following activities: · We will run regular, convenient training sessions open to the public to train candidates, campaign managers, and supporters to run effective races. · We will recruit people who have conservative and libertarian sensibilities but who are not fans of the current GOP (like us) to come enroll in the Party, to establish or take over their town and city Republican committees, and eventually help to transform the state Republican Committee for the 21st century. In essence, we will find the engaged citizens of the Commonwealth to "Be the Republican Party." · We will keep pressure on those legislators already in office by organizing coordinated phone, email, and mail campaigns, in order to ensure they remember who they work for, and what we want. It doesn't take long for someone to be in power for too long. We can't just send them and forget them. They will forget about us, too. · We will use the power of the revitalized Bristol County Republican Committee to gain and exercise standing in the various cities and towns, and use that standing to make changes to the nuts and bolts of the electoral process to minimize voter fraud. This includes supporting legislators who support Show ID to Vote initiatives. It also includes making sure that there are trained poll watchers at the polling places. And it involves making municipalities listen to their constituents, and move polling places to neutral locations. For instance, several polling places in Fall River and New Bedford are physically inside housing projects. This is obviously wrong. They need to be moved, and "The Bristol County GOP" has more cache and standing than "A couple of fellows from out of town" would have. · We will raise funds for these activities as well as for direct funding of candidates through phone, mail, and email campaigns. · We will make telephone facilities and other resources available to Republican candidates to get their message out to the public at election time.

114  I think  why Carson is admired from many of us Is he speaks of things We Knew but haven't ben given any chance to say in discussions because  To argue gaionst the statists push is
racist
ignroant hillbilly
hateful  and uncaring .
(and see he shows why not arguing against the statist push is actually  defeatist to  staying a country of strength and original purpose , freedom, opportunity, etc)

115

Mathematics, arithmetic, accounting  and your "truth" are all artificial constructs of the white Patriarchy.

 

The revolutionary truth of Obama is all that matters, and we will say "nyah! nyah!" and stick our tongues out at you in public.

 

Which is pretty much what is said on MSNBC every night.  CNN is not much different.  And if you think CNN here is bad, you should travel to Europe and watch CNN there.    These are the tools of the propaganda machine.   Was it a fluke that Candy Crowley said what she did to Romney in the debate last fall?

116 We have the figures and the truth on our side, we just need to start speaking up. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 16, 2013 11:51 AM

Faux News propaganda! You're just a stupid sheep brainwashed by Limbaugh and Beck!

Oh, and you're a homophobic racist making war on women!

117 We have the figures and the truth on our side, we just need to start speaking up.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 16, 2013 11:51 AM (+z4pE)

***

yes. we can and do do it face to face with libtards at work et. al. but will out old crony reps do it?

118 OSP, that's freaking inspiring man.

119

Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 11:45 AM (ZhoXI)

 

That reminds me Truman, according to AllenG, you and I need to talk.

120 Sat in on a Toastmasters meeting. One of the cliche phases you aren't supposed to utter: With all due respect.

With all due respect Mr Dildo, fuck you* for suggesting I listen to TFG on a Saturday, on my own time.

*That's not a fuck you - fuck you.

121 I'm in Mass and have given up hope.

Posted by: Sharon at February 16, 2013 11:47 AM (DtEq4)

Put your phone down! Show a little respect.

Wait....what?

122 If rights come from God, but there is no God, where do rights really come from? Atheists suck. They undermine the Constitution, and the Unites States of America.

123 Posted by: sTevo at February 16, 2013 11:57 AM (VMcEw)

My apologies. I should have added a warning.

124 but will out old crony reps do it?

Posted by: Guido at February 16, 2013 11:56 AM (XLuH2)

few have the desire it seems for whatever reasons. They like their positions, they are intimidated, they really don't give a shit as long as they have some Pie?

newt , walker, cruz, perry. stands up and does well most of the time.  but they really are marginalized as What's wrong with the party by media.

sigh

125 Julius Caesar would not have become a dictator if the Roman people had not rolled over for him. I cannot stand Obama, but part of me wants those who supported Obama to suffer. Is that wrong of me?

126 This, more than anything, is why we need a new party to replace the Republicans. A new party will not be bound by that agreement. A party with balls would hold a press conference and tear up the agreement with gusto on national TV. Fuck agreements with the enemy. That reminds me Truman, according to AllenG, you and I need to talk. Ugh. Whad I do now!?

127 I like that Truman.  We need a few more Ted Cruz's in the Senate.

128 Why am I unable to post this morning?

129 111
If we don't fight back effectively, look at Detroit and see our future.
Posted by: Boots at February 16, 2013 11:53 AM

If you look at the situation in Argentina right now, you're seeing our future.

Cristina Kirchner has run a well off country into a hyperinflationary banana republic. But no matter how badly her heavy handed tactics drive Argentina into bankruptcy, she'll probably be handily re-elected this Autumn

It's not for nothing that I call her "Obama with Tits"

130 Well that worked:-) tried two times before....

131

Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 12:00 PM (ItWCD)

 

You're far too good at what you do is the problem .

 

And I'm thinking of doing something stupid and he thought you might be just the person to talk me deeper into it .

132 I expect something bad to happen to Cruz. He is fighting back. I expect the National GOP to turn on him.

133 I still think its possible that the election was stolen... I wouldn't put anything past this administration... Someone needs to do a full-bore rectal exam of the electronic voting systems and their owners ties to Obama.  Its the elephant in the room that no one is talking about...

Until we have some way to physically check individual votes against the electronic database (i.e. some type of vote "receipt" system), then we can never trust the integrity of our voting system...

Remember, in a communist system, its not who votes that's important, its who COUNTS the votes that matters...

134 Remember, in a communist system, its not who votes that's important, its who COUNTS the votes that matters... Posted by: Josh at February 16, 2013 12:02 PM (/kaf3) Thats why state by state voter ID is critical.

135 >>> "...bastards. If we have to take off the gloves, hit below the belt, play dirty pool, or whatever metaphor you prefer for playing dirty...and winning....then I am all for it." Dildo, are you Sybil's brother Bybil?

136 "Remember, in a communist system, its not who votes that's important, its who COUNTS the votes that matters..."

HA!  It is good to be General Secretary.

137 123, We have a winner. Where do rights come from? What is the source of all honor? Atheism in all forms is a type of leftism. The start to solving our problems is recognition of this. Without God, we will always lose, because it is only He who gives the victory over the forces of this world. The reason the left, homosexuals, Muslims, and feminists all unite under a shared banner us because they are all forces of this world, and all share the same goal of elimination if Christianity. The Republic can only survive as a Christian nation.

138 @ 111 yeah but we have mini Detroit luvin fan clubs along every MLK avenue in the nation, when you want nothing more than the sustainable to defecate in a place with a warm roof over your head "Whats the difference?"

139 Sharon, I have some great news for you! At the January State GOP meeting, the establishment candidate beat the libertarian by a vote of only 41-39. Furthermore, 15 of the 80 committee members and about 25 town republican committees are demanding an investigation into what was a controversial parliamentary process leading to that vote. The old guard is already dead, Sharon. They're extinct. We're gonna have new energy, new tactics, and more wins here in mass over the next decade. Nothig left to do but topple the assholes. Get involved. Got to GOP meetings. Yell real loud. Tell the truth and make it uncomfortable. The old guard all have country clubs or whatever where they'd be much more comfortable. Make them uncomfortable hanging around and ruining our future. Make sure they seriously consider retiring, and then make them do it.

140

If I may....
Still Bush's fault

 

This would be a good place to start. There are several prominent   financial people  and organizations who are stepping forward  to say that Bush didn't cause the housing crash, the CRA did. If this idea were to gain a bit of traction (which shouldn't be hard to do because it's the truth), then a lot   more people would come forward with their experiences.

Faux News propaganda! You're just a stupid sheep brainwashed by Limbaugh and Beck!

Oh, and you're a homophobic racist making war on women!

 

And the  reply to that should be pointing and laughing. 

141 I've been saying this for a long time. Either the GOP learn how to fight or they will keep getting B**** Slapped and made to look like foools. 

142 @106

You can't be serious!?  The one common theme I hear in a deep blue western county and from the "educated" left is that there should less religion in politics and governance.  Not only that, but by advocating for more religious-based morality in legislation and governance, you are handing the left the tools that they have successfully beat us over the head with since as long as I can remember. 

I might be able to agree with you on some policy points, but its a bad idea to go about it from the lead from the bible perspective.

Fiscal conservatism, national defense, and individual liberty.  That's it, as far as the scope of national governance.  We need rebranding as the party of liberty through such Alinsky-esque tools as mockery of the lefts' fascination with controlling every mundane detail of our lives.

This appears to be a good piece that shows how everyone can be an unwitting criminal ("Ham Sandwich Nation: Due Process When Everything is a Crime").  I don't recall if I got it here, first.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2203713

The point is that this is a message that can win.  The busybodies in DC and elsewhere (R and D, both) are continually moving toward legislating every aspect of our lives, and the abuses abound. Enough!  Let's be the party of "leave me the hell alone!"  Arguing from the bible is only going to get us more of the same, IMO.

143 That's Massachusetts. My phone only tells me what time it is. Besides that, I'm Jewish

144 56 ---"We will be poorer, less free and worse off in the future, and even letting it burn will not change any of that." Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 16, 2013 11:26 AM (Md8Uo) Letting it burn will make it even worse. The bigger the crisis (real or imagined,) the bigger the government intervention to "solve" it. Good grief, people today cry out to Caesar to save them from skinned knees and hurt feelings. Imagine what they'll beg for when things really get bad.

145 >>>Ugh. Whad I do now!? You left the seat up again.

146

As Orwell said, whoever is winning at the moment looks invincible. The media is not invincible. They're so fat and arrogant and exposed and ready for a fall it isn't funny. But it just takes one courageous and incisive national figure who sees the sham of their power and is willing to challenge and define the Narrative itself, i.e., the inner-workings of the process of forming Narratives, to their faces. The conversation then becomes about the Narrative, which they're forced to deny as this person presses, using specifics -- always keeping it specific and inquisitional, ALWAYS putting them on the defensive.

Occasionally those like Gingrich and Palin indulge brief riffs and put-downs, sometimes effective and funny, but really, has anybody ever confronted the media to its face in their bailiwick over the essential nature and workings of their corruption?

147 133 I expect something bad to happen to Cruz. He is fighting back. I expect the National GOP to turn on him.

Posted by: nip at February 16, 2013 12:02 PM (11Tdq)

Yep...no more party invites for him at the good ol boys club....which I hope has a brazil like fire one of these days.

I do not denounce myself.

148

Thats why state by state voter ID is critical.

 

 

Agreed.  But what to do about illegals getting drivers licenses?  This is a huge problem and now we aren't deporting anyone and TFG wants amnesty.

149 134 I still think its possible that the election was stolen... I wouldn't put anything past this administration... Someone needs to do a full-bore rectal exam of the electronic voting systems and their owners ties to Obama. Its the elephant in the room that no one is talking about...

Until we have some way to physically check individual votes against the electronic database (i.e. some type of vote "receipt" system), then we can never trust the integrity of our voting system...

Remember, in a communist system, its not who votes that's important, its who COUNTS the votes that matters...

Posted by: Josh at February 16, 2013 12:02 PM (/kaf3)

Stolen from the voters , in agreement with GOP.

150 Fiscal conservatism, national defense, and individual liberty. That's it, as far as the scope of national governance. We need rebranding as the party of liberty through such Alinsky-esque tools as mockery of the lefts' fascination with controlling every mundane detail of our lives.

Posted by: assault flounder at February 16, 2013 12:05 PM (Kkt/i)

this

151 The election WAS stolen. I'm 90% sure. Which means, in all truthfulness, we need to get better at stealing votes than they are. The only way by will be interesting in taking the margin of fraud out of the system is if we're beating the shit out of them at vote stealing.

152

The 19th century philosophers who built the intellectual (hah!) bulwark for Marx were often referred to as "Utopian Socialists."

 

Actually himself from the "Utopian Socialists," whom he viewed as hopeless dreamers (!), and characterized his proposals as "scientific socialism." This because science was in its first full blossom in the 19th century, and he wanted to associate his proposals with something on the ascendant.

 

I guess a latter-day Marx would call his rubbish "Facebook socialism," although "Facebook Fascism" would be more accurate, and alliterative to boot.

153

few have the desire it seems for whatever reasons. They like their positions, they are intimidated, they really don't give a shit as long as they have some Pie? newt , walker, cruz, perry. stands up and does well most of the time. but they really are marginalized as What's wrong with the party by media.
sigh

Posted by: willow-ette at February 16, 2013 11:59 AM (nqBYe)

******

Whats wrong with a good schoolyard scrap? I had plenty when I was a kid and even the ones I lost i built some cred and respect and even maybe made a friendship from it. AND I daresay I've been knoecked around pretty good here at times ( i fondly remember being called a shitweasle. lol. and Mrs. Guido is fond of it too) and when it's over I've learned something even from you assholes.

AND we should always stand up to fucking BULLIES which we are facing now. I don't GET it!

154 I usually don't take posts seriously by people other than ace, but with a name like CharlieBrown'sDildo you know it's solid.

155 If I may....
Still Bush's fault

Brings to mind a quote from Fight Club...

'A generation of men raised by women. IÂ’m wondering if another woman is the answer we really need.'

In current society I'd change it to -- a generation of voters willing to continually blame Bush. I'm pretty certain another Bush is not the answer we really need.

156 I had a hunch when I saw the tools Romney and the GOP used vs Obama last year.

From Obama I saw constant ads on every cable tv show, every regular broadcast, and all over the internet

From Romney? Direct mail flyers and robocalls

I read constant complaints about that here last summer, yet we died inside on 11/6/12 because we still had hope.

157 any election in which a Democrat won by 5 points or less was probably stolen

158 152 The election WAS stolen. I'm 90% sure. Which means, in all truthfulness, we need to get better at stealing votes than they are. The only way by will be interesting in taking the margin of fraud out of the system is if we're beating the shit out of them at vote stealing. Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 12:08 PM (ItWCD Even though the libs have been on camera confessing that they voted multiple times the only time the boot will come down hard is when a conservative does it and gets caught.

159 My apologies. I should have added a warning.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
---

Accepted, now I have apologize for being a douche, which come natural for me.

Thanks for putting up a thread. If TFG is the topic, I get to swear at him.

May the golf coach worsen the JEF's swing. Golf is something he will never master. Damn, he should be better than Tiger, for all he plays.

160 When opposing a stealth Marxist socialist takeover of the United States, all that is legal is allowable. I have written that phrase a few times before on here in various contexts and was lambasted for it, but either we get it in our heads that these are not traditional Democrats and dispense altogether with notions of fair play and common courtesy or we continue to lose honorably. One of the most difficult things on the planet is convincing honest, ethical, kind-hearted people to perform acts which, on the face of it, seem ruthless and wrong. It is, for example, a fact of combat that some soldiers are unable to bring themselves to kill the enemy because of moral conflicts or acute empathy and heightened emotional sensitivity. Their inability to do so does not make them cowards. It does, however, make them useless in combat.

161 assualt, I think many of us agre these are our first issues.


however we are always playing defense  against the political wonks in the media and on the left.

They set the discussion.  Newts way of answering a question  work.

don't let them choose the discussion and us have to fight by terms they made .

Free BC agree or hate women- (we want self responsibility  leanrned and encouraged)

keep everyone on welfare  (our concern is then people are not given encouragment to break away and be free or their bonds

anywway the discussions never work out

so  don't let them set the terms

162 108 http://tinyurl.com/ceewfr9


Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2013 11:39 AM (X6akg)

Tami, I really liked one of his opening lines in that discussion.Where he states He wants to get the populace educated , because they cannot make decisions without being such. (not his exact wording) and stated without doing so we would end up like all fallen nations in history.

Posted by: willow-ette at February 16, 2013 11:52 AM (nqBYe)

Education is long game stuff, and we need to focus there. The points in the OP re:messaging and tactics can happen now (and can be useful re:education) and can have near term effects. 

Demonize, divide, and conquer.  A local example is a school superintendent of a local mid-size municipality makes about $300K, while the State AG makes about $140K.  What would happen if a bunch of people protested at the home of the superintendent jackass that he is making $300K while students suffer <insert any number of faux or real concerns>?  Media picks it up (maybe), and people are informed about the big lie over needing more money, for the children.  I would guess that eliminating this one jackass could save 3+ teacher jobs and some money to boot, and the children would not suffer as a result.

163

"I expect something bad to happen to Cruz. He is fighting back. I expect the National GOP to turn on him."

 

If his last name was spelled "Cruise", they already would have.

164 I have to screw for a while. My email is Sanderson 2208 @ gmail . com

165
May the golf coach worsen the JEF's swing. Golf is something he will never master. Damn, he should be better than Tiger, for all he plays.

Posted by: sTevo at February 16, 2013 12:11 PM (VMcEw)

 

I hate golf, does this make me ineligible to run for any political office? (apparently it hurt my med school application.)

166 5 points is a conservative estimate for any Democrat-run big city to account for illegal votes, dead votes, multiple votes, and felon votes.

167 CRAP.

168 "...now I have apologize for being a douche..."

Posted by: sTevo at February 16, 2013 12:11 PM (VMcEw)

Um....this is AOSHQ, and I posted this with the name "CharlieBrown'sDildo."

Explain why you have to apologize?

169 Does all this mean I have to dress up in a vagina suit, march in circles, and shout badly written slogans?

170 >>From Obama I saw constant ads on every cable tv show, every regular broadcast, and all over the internet

>>From Romney? Direct mail flyers and robocalls


Whoever Romney paid to run his campaign did a terrible job. I also saw Obama ads everywhere including during a lot of sports programs, nothing from Romney.

171 Posted by: tsrblke at February 16, 2013 12:13 PM (GaqMa)

Come to me......

172 #102  ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!  Remember how Kerry kept talking about how we didn't have enough security in the ports and how Bush had ignored port security despite his suggestions?  Kerry obviously had picked up on some report and was hoping there would be an attack,  and they were ready when Katrina hit.

That is why Blanco didn't request help even though Bush was begging her to.

You are right and it is something that people need to think about right now.  Whoever is the nominee,  they will have a game plan to destroy that person.  We had better be prepared to fight fire with fire.

173 If something is done to stop the total remaking of America, it won't be the GOP who does it. The GOP, in it's current form, are Democrats. Same-same.

174 What's more useless than complaining about the GOP? Complaining about voter fraud. The Democrats have cheated for the last century. Big whoop.

175 Posted by: tsrblke at February 16, 2013 12:13 PM (GaqMa) Hating golf shouldn't hurt your chances. Now, time in the barrel is another story.

176 157 I had a hunch when I saw the tools Romney and the GOP used vs Obama last year.

From Obama I saw constant ads on every cable tv show, every regular broadcast, and all over the internet

From Romney? Direct mail flyers and robocalls

I read constant complaints about that here last summer, yet we died inside on 11/6/12 because we still had hope.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 12:10 PM (mCvL4)

It's hard to believe that Romney could fail so bad, he's been running for president since his dad lost. It's like GOP made a deal with Obama behind his back.

177

Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 12:13 PM (ItWCD)

 

I'll give you 5 minutes to finish screwing before I email

178

 

Fight? Alinksy tactics?

 

 

No, no.

 

Wouldn't be prudent.

179 If we were winning in the war of ideas, we'd be winning the presidency and moving the Democrats to the right. Guess what. We aren't.

180 Flounder, I am not advocating for it as a political approach. What I am doing is trying to focus some of our thinking so we can understand the origins of the problems we face, so as to bring about solutions. Our own lukewarmness in our own lives is in many ways responsible for the moral rot found in our society. How can we expect to renew America when many if us ourselves do not properly honor God? There are certain things that can be addressed on our individual levels, and they should be. A lot of filth comes through television. And the media companies are trying to destroy us. Maybe individuals should stop waiting for leadership to announce the "plan" and just cancel their TV subscriptions and starve the beast. Same with local newspapers. "but how will I be entertained by the flashy box?!?!". Suck it up. Our own weakness and "need" for entertainment contributed greatly to the rise of these problems.

181 The Republican party has proven that it is now worthless.  I suggest we all join the Democrats, at least then we can vote in primaries for the least-lefty ones.

182

Posted by: RWC at February 16, 2013 12:14 PM (sqp6o)

 

Can I cash in "fixed other people's barrel" for a get out of the barrel free card?

183 Moral victories are for losers.

And the Republican Party has been claiming a lot of moral victories the last five years.

The one and only thing that gets their attention is when their reelection is threatened.

Third party will do that very well.

They either start sucking up to us or they don't have a job.

The alternative of "well, then the Democrats will always win" isn't any worse than what we are getting now.

184 164
"I expect something bad to happen to Cruz. He is fighting back. I expect the National GOP to turn on him."

If his last name was spelled "Cruise", they already would have.

Posted by: Beef at February 16, 2013 12:12 PM (mb1uj)

*****

And yes...THIS is what pisses me off to no end. You get someone who is willing roll up his sleeves and bloody soem noses and he gets hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat by his own fucking party. Pathetic.

185 If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.   - Winston Churchill

186 OK, quick gut check time

How many of us back down in a Facebook argument to "save a friendship" but let the lefty friend skate and dictate the terms of continued friendship?

Last week I reached my point and told my lefty brother in law whom I've always liked and can agree on lots of things other than politics that if what I was saying pissed him off that much, he's welcome to click on the unfriend button

He didn't and I'm glad he didn't, but I'm tired of punting just to keep the peace. I've had enough

187 Posted by: RoyalOil at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (VjL9S) What moral victories? Nominating McCain and Romney?

188 History has a show called Sold!.....auction in Missouri.  They're getting ready to auction one man's gun collection.   Lots of guns!

189 I'll give you 5 minutes to finish screwing before I email Posted by: tsrblke at February 16, 2013 12:15 PM (GaqMa) If he's anything like me, there will be time left over.

190 Posted by: RWC at February 16, 2013 12:14 PM (sqp6o) Can I cash in "fixed other people's barrel" for a get out of the barrel free card? Posted by: tsrblke at February 16, 2013 12:16 PM (GaqMa) Actually, recent polling shows that 'time in the barrel' is a winner with the electorate. It brings you closer to the common moron.

191 If we can't beat SCOAMF, we can't beat anyone. We need more people like Rand/Cruz/Carson. Instead we have copies of Boner.

192

It's hard to believe that Romney could fail so bad, he's been running for president since his dad lost. It's like GOP made a deal with Obama behind his back.

 

 

In hindsight, I think it was worse than that.  I think Romney may have been in on it.  He sure didn't show any fight at all.  His campaign made no sense at all. 

 

I still think Dick Morris is a traitor.

 

/tinfoil hat off

193
If his last name was spelled "Cruise", they already would have.Posted by: Beef at February 16, 2013 12:12 PM (mb1uj)*****And yes...THIS is what pisses me off to no end. You get someone who is willing roll up his sleeves and bloody soem noses and he gets hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat by his own fucking party. Pathetic.

Posted by: Guido at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (XLuH2)

and he gets hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat by his own fucking party. Pathetic

someone said something like' keeping the status quo  going.'

That's probably the easiest and simple truth.

194 Posted by: RWC at February 16, 2013 12:14 PM (sqp6o)

Can I cash in "fixed other people's barrel" for a get out of the barrel free card? Posted by: tsrblke at February 16, 2013 12:16 PM

Nope, you know the rules. Anyone using eye-talics will close their eye-talics. Anyone caught not closin' their eye-talics will spend the night in The Barrel

You got any questions, you come to me. I'm Carr the Threadwalker

195 "...but I'm tired of punting just to keep the peace. I've had enough."

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (mCvL4)

Bingo!

196 123 If rights come from God, but there is no God, where do rights really come from?

Atheists suck. They undermine the Constitution, and the Unites States of America.

Posted by: nip at February 16, 2013 11:58 AM (11Tdq)

Bite me.

197  just need to go find a Libtard and punch him in the fucking face today. Really. except I'm stuck in bed with a broken fucking leg. maybe Ms. Guido will bring one to me.

198 How many of us back down in a Facebook argument to "save a friendship" but let the lefty friend skate and dictate the terms of continued friendship? Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (mCvL4) Hell no I don't back down. i thoroughly enjoy pissing them off. Even with coworkers face to face i won't stop. It's too easy to point out the flaws in their arguments (and most don't get it, but for the people listening in they'll ask me questions later on.)

199 186 If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if
you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to
the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a
precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to
fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to
live as slaves. - Winston Churchill

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (Md8Uo)

Barbaric!

200 I had a hunch when I saw the tools Romney and the GOP used vs Obama last year.
---

I'm not convinced Rombley and the like didn't vote for TFG.

201 All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

202 152 The election WAS stolen. I'm 90% sure.

Which means, in all truthfulness, we need to get better at stealing votes than they are.

The only way by will be interesting in taking the margin of fraud out of the system is if we're beating the shit out of them at vote stealing.

Posted by: Truman North at February 16, 2013 12:08 PM (ItWCD

yes it was. i'm more than 90% sure. we screwed with elections in Australia in the 70s because of our facility at Pine Gap and certan politicians being against it, they're our ALLY for fucksake . Our capabilities have not decreased, what makes anyone believe these scumy Chicago cocksuckers that have access to 80 years of Allied work in humint why wouldnt they use that along with the ground work done by Gramscian disciples in Academia and the media?

203 5 Syrians hurt near border receive care in Israel Border area affected yet again by battles between Syrian army, rebels. IDF confirms five Syrians hurt in Syrian Golan taken to Ziv Medical Center in Safed Somehow this will be Israel's fault?

204 I'm trying hard not to picture her in ski pants.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 11:42 AM (UOM4

 

******

 

It's okay Jane.  Someone's got it covered.

 

http://tinyurl.com/cmxl9p2

205 Really though, the election was stolen at the primaries.

206 Taking a page from the dems,  we need targeted hot button issues to certain segments of the population.

Here is one directed to college students:

The federal government and the universities are conspiring to sentence you to a lifetime of debt and poor employment or NO employment in order to puff up professor's and administrator's life styles.

An add with graphics, good actors,  great camera work could easily protray both the feds and the universities as fat cat enemies of the poor college kids.

An added benefit is that they would look askance at those lefty hypocrite professors.

207 @138,123

Bullshit, to you and your reference.  Whether rights come from a God is a moot point.  Rights are respected as a pact between men (and women) and the government they allow to govern. In the end, that's all that matters.

Call it leftist or whatever you will.  But governments are instituted among men, not through divine intervention.  Adding more god to the equation will only strengthen the left's grasp on the reigns.

208 Questions like, "where do rights come from?" And "what is the source of all honor?" Are very important for internal renewal of conservatism. It is an internal drumbeat that must be constant, otherwise leftism, secularism, and atheism quickly take hold and destroy love of liberty. If rights do not come from God, or if there is no God, then the state can do whatever it pleases and there will be no Republic. If a man believes that honor is relative, or merely a social construct, or even worse, non-existent, he can be trusted in nothing big or small, and should likely be shunned.

209 "From Obama I saw constant ads on every cable tv show, every regular broadcast, and all over the internet From Romney? Direct mail flyers and robocalls" I'm still pissed off that I drank the Rombley Kool-Aid. Lots of posters here telling me not to worry about the lack of ads from Romney. "This is how it's done in the 21st Century! Stay cool, keep your powder dry, don't be high maintenance." Actually, "pissed off" doesn't accurately describe the degree to which I am seething over the GOP's utter incompetence since 2006. I mean, the GOP hass been failing for longer than that on a few levels, but total incompetence is describing the GOP charitably these days.

210

If we were winning in the war of ideas, we'd be winning the presidency and moving the Democrats to the right.

Guess what. We aren't.

 

We aren't winning the war of ideas because nobody in the GOP is even addressing them.

 

Who, among the most recent crop of candidates, asked the question, "Why shouldn't every American have a good job, a stable future,  and money in  their   pocket?"

 

Show some "before" and "after" pics of  California's Central  Valley and ask, "Is this a government that's working for you?"  Show a big group of recently unemployed   coal workers and ask the same question.

211 How many of us back down in a Facebook argument to "save a friendship" but let the lefty friend skate and dictate the terms of continued friendship?



There are only a couple people I'll discuss politics with on Facebook; believe it or not one of them is one of the few lefties with integrity I know.  Actually I'm kind of embarrassed to be on FB at all since Suckerberg has the ethics and humanity of the Stasi.

212 Cuba, too, reports powerful meteorite explosion Published: 02.16.13, 18:33 / Israel News Cuba apparently experienced a phenomenon similar to the meteorite that detonated over Russia this week, island media reported, with startled residents describing a bright light in the sky and a loud explosion that shook windows and walls. There were no reports of any injuries or damage such as those caused by the Russia meteorite, which sent out shockwaves that hurt some 1,200 people and shattered countless windows. (AP) Hum? memo to obama: maybe G-D doens't like commie bastards?

213 anyway Truman seems set to attempt to change the direction of  who gets a chance at being elected.

i guess this is what we do continually
tea party helped even if they had lost a round or two,  and it was imperfect
the desire is there, we need more

214 If his last name was spelled "Cruise", they already would have.Posted by: Beef at February 16, 2013 12:12 PM (mb1uj)*****And yes...THIS is what pisses me off to no end. You get someone who is willing roll up his sleeves and bloody soem noses and he gets hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat by his own fucking party. Pathetic.

Posted by: Guido at February 16, 2013 12:17 PM (XLuH2)

The kept prostitutes dont want anyone to fight back.

215 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 16, 2013 12:26 PM (+z4pE) I'm responding to the crying an wailing about voting fraud stealing the election. It's Beta Male stuff, pointless at best, delusional at worst.

216 >>>Does all this mean I have to dress up in a vagina suit, march in circles, and shout badly written slogans?

If you can do it better than Obama?  Yes.

217 196 "...but I'm tired of punting just to keep the peace. I've had enough." Punting, to the Lib and Muz is a sign of weakness to be exploited. FYI. I am also a BIG fan of Projection. My family is quite good at it. All Libs, who call themselves conservative.

218

"...but I'm tired of punting just to keep the peace. I've had enough."

 

I've lost very good friends over the years over politics.  People that I shared many interests with - music, sports, literature, drinking - couldn't handle the fact that I might not buy into everything that was being sold.  I am perfectly able be in a relationship where people express different, sincere beliefs and not insist that they agree with me. But leftism demands conformity. Liberalism is a disease.

219 >>>Does all this mean I have to dress up in a vagina suit, march in circles, and shout badly written slogans? If you can do it better than Obama? Yes. Posted by: Fritz at February 16, 2013 12:28 PM (UzPAd) When I was marching in protest in front of the congressmans office I had the old folks chanting, Help to save the human race Punch a hippy in the face.

220 Rah-rah. But last election showed we've tipped. It should not have been close even.

The only cure involves pain. We will not convince anyone by talking and campaigning. Especially with a complicit media.

Burnage and pain, media destroyed, GOP destroyed, then rebuild when people realize what happened and what things are supposed to be like in this country.

221 If something is done to stop the total remaking of America, it won't be the GOP who does it. The GOP, in it's current form, are Democrats. Same-same. Posted by: EROWMER at February 16, 2013 12:14 PM (kxlCQ) No, they're not the same, although some blue and purple state Republican politicians are practically indistinguishable from Democrats. However, we live in a big country with differing perspectives from one region to another. One cannot expect a Massachusetts Republican to run as a Texas Republican and win, at least not in Massachusetts. I take it you stayed home in the last election--you know, since the two parties are the same and all? That particular voting strategy doesn't work, of course, but it does allow you and yours to feel smug and morally superior, with your purity intact. Hold onto that feeling, but here's a clue: feelings don't matter. Results matter.

222 Flounder, Not according to the preamble to the Constitution. If they come from men then they can be denied by men, and we return to might makes right. Such sloppy thinking us fucking pathetic, and the desire to be free from the moral constraints of natural law is the very rot that has so harmed the Republic.

223 Does all this mean I have to dress up in a vagina suit, march in circles, and shout badly written slogans?

If you can do it better than Obama? Yes.

Posted by: Fritz at February 16, 2013 12:28 PM (UzPAd)

hell i might wear one and ask the govt to stay OUT of my womb and personal decisions !

like back in the day

now it has become, govt hands in my womb, my child's life and  I am nothing with out sugar daddy  "keeping me'

224

"...but I'm tired of punting just to keep the peace. I've had enough."

 

Closely related to this phenomenon is the tendency of fellow travelers to insert their politics into inappropriate situations as though they're certain all present will necessarily agree with them.

 

This really pisses me off no end. For example, I had some liberal bitch come to pick up our son to play with hers, and right in my house went off on a rant about Bush.

 

The same thing just happened at a neighbor's get-together. Some asshole told, out of the blue, a story about a woman who parked in a red zone before rushing into the post office. He chided her about it, and she went off on him. Turns out she had a Romney sticker, and he had a Jugears one, from which he drew a conclusion about Romney supporters. I thought, "She parked in the red; you voted for the Red," but being better bred than said asshole, kept my mouth shut. I did point out that his wife gives great head, though. /kidding!

225 Help to save the human race
Punch a hippy in the face.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 16, 2013 12:30 PM (l86i3)

laughing.

watch that swing though ok? i still wear hippy flower skirts, potato sack shirts and Birkenstocks on days i'm just hanging out!

226 I received so many robo calls from Rombley I was tempted to not vote for him.

It was harassment and an invasion of privacy.

227

toyrisr: " One cannot expect a Massachusetts Republican to run as a Texas Republican and win, at least not in Massachusetts."

 

That's agood point. In a nation of 300 million with a two party system, you need to get a representative sample of 150 million people on your side to win. For any one person to expect that they get their very own perfect candidate is infantile.  You have to make some compromises when trying to agree with 149,999,999other people.

228 State lawmakers are working on legislation that would permit physician assistants and nurse practitioners to set up independent practices. Pharmacists and optometrists could now act as “primary care” providers. ----- And the ambulance chasing lawyers just had a collective orgasm. 'Oh, so you aren't certified/licensed to do that procedure.' Nice.

229 Willow, I live in a very hippie part of Cali. The great irony is how conservative many pot smoking hippies actually are.

230

like back in the daynow it has become, govt hands in my womb, my child's life and I am nothing with out sugar daddy "keeping me'

 

The dumb asses who want the government to pay for everything apparently have failed to figure out that he who pays, controls.

 

You don't want others to interfere with your life and your decisions? Pay your own way. Otherwise, whoever is paying has bought a say in what you do, whether you realize it now or not.

231 207 Taking a page from the dems, we need targeted hot button issues to certain segments of the population.

Here is one directed to college students:

The federal government and the universities are conspiring to sentence you to a lifetime of debt and poor employment or NO employment in order to puff up professor's and administrator's life styles.

An add with graphics, good actors, great camera work could easily protray both the feds and the universities as fat cat enemies of the poor college kids.

An added benefit is that they would look askance at those lefty hypocrite professors.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 16, 2013 12:25 PM (GoIUi)

Easy one , but above GOPs pay grade..

232 The federal government and the universities are conspiring to sentence you to a lifetime of debt and poor employment or NO employment in order to puff up professor's and administrator's life styles.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 16, 2013 12:25 PM

Obama is proposing a program of student loan forgiveness with the taxpayer picking up the tab

Guess who the students will think is looking out for them

233 It just goes to show you how brilliant the Founding Fathers were.
It took over 225 years of diligent work to circumvent them.

After a sincere "well played gentlemen", they would be the first to root SMOD on.

234 174 ---"The GOP, in it's current form, are Democrats. Same-same. " Posted by: EROWMER at February 16, 2013 12:14 PM (kxlCQ) Bull. Whatever weakness, self-interest, and cowardice we can (rightly) ascribe to the GOP, the Dems are far worse. It took a Pelosi Congress to pass the massive porkulus bill, not to mention the horror we call Obamacare. The GOP stood firmly against them as a block. There is NO chance Obamacare would even have made it to the floor under Boehner. I share everyone's frustrations with the GOP and especially with the GOP leadership, but this talk of equivalence is absurd. BTW, there actually are some real conservatives in Congress (close to 100 of them) and ALL of them are in the GOP. Their influence over the RINOs may be sadly limited but it is not nonexistent.

235 Like the old fashion duels of old (ex. Burr vs. Hamilton), if Republicans take the first shot they honorably miss. Obama the aims for the heart.

236 If I forget one more time to take off my socks, I'm putting myself in The Barrel

237 Oh yeah, it's almost 9:40am on the west coast - which means that tequila ain't gonna drink itself.

Adios!

238

215-The kept prostitutes dont want anyone to fight back.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 16, 2013 12:28 PM (AWmfW)

You're right. just corrupt, robbing, dirty rotten stinking fucking whores. and there are some great posts here today but have no rational thought. I am so enraged. I am going to drop out, sit in bed and dry fire my 38 until I get some perspective. later all.

239 236 Like the old fashion duels of old (ex. Burr vs. Hamilton), if Republicans take the first shot they honorably miss. Obama the aims for the heart. Posted by: deepred at February 16, 2013 12:39 PM

Thanks for the advice pal, I might have been able to use it if you'd told me 200 fucking years ago

240

"The great irony is how conservative many pot smoking hippies actually are."

 

Reality is conservative.  The hardest core liberals live in gated communities far from the consequences of their beliefs.

241 You don't want others to interfere with your life and your decisions? Pay your own way. Otherwise, whoever is paying has bought a say in what you do, whether you realize it now or not.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 16, 2013 12:36 PM (IDSI7)

yes. They now own you.  and threaten to have those things you are beholden to away if you don't vote their way.

dependency =owned!

it's hateful

242 >>>The dumb asses who want the government to pay for everything apparently have failed to figure out that he who pays, controls.

You don't want others to interfere with your life and your decisions? Pay your own way. Otherwise, whoever is paying has bought a say in what you do, whether you realize it now or not.<<<

Wait a minute.  Are we allowed in their vagina or not?

I guess it never hurts to ask again.   Is three times considered harrassment?

243 @181

Our own lukewarmness in our own lives is in many ways responsible for the moral rot found in our society. How can we expect to renew America when many if us ourselves do not properly honor God?

There are certain things that can be addressed on our individual levels, and they should be.

A lot of filth comes through television. And the media companies are trying to destroy us. Maybe individuals should stop waiting for leadership to announce the "plan" and just cancel their TV subscriptions and starve the beast. Same with local newspapers. "but how will I be entertained by the flashy box?!?!". Suck it up. Our own weakness and "need" for entertainment contributed greatly to the rise of these problems.

- - -

Just saying.  I see a lot of push back from people who should be solid conservatives (e.g., 2A supporters) that, whether rational or not, believe that religion in politics is destroying science, wants to keep you barefoot and pregnant, etc.  More of this same morality-based push, ESPECIALLY ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, freak these people out.

Instead, the new party should be about individual liberty.

Agree, starve the beast. I am (no cable, no newspaper, etc.). Teach your own and advocate for local religious-based morality plays, if you feel compelled.  As a national strategy, its going to hurt us, IMO.

244

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 16, 2013 12:25 PM (GoIUi)

 

Excellent.

 

Puts me in mind of Conan Doyle's "The Speckled Band," where the villain kills his victims by sending a snake from his room into their room by way of a bell pull. Holmes whacks the snake with his stick as it descends into the victim's room, whereupon it slithers back up the bell pull to the villain's room and bites him.

245 How many rallying cries are going to appear in the conservative blogosphere before you people get it? It's always "our message isn't strong enough! We're not big enough bullies! The media must be dismantled! Enough is enough is enough is enough, etc." Why can't you cons just accept that America is summarily rejecting you stale ideas and failed policies one election after another? Oh well. You can lead jackasses to water... I can't wait to see the collective meltdown when Hillary is elected in '16.

246 you become* beholden

247

Wait a minute. Are we allowed in their vagina or not?

 

If you pay your own way. Try to keep up, OK? /kidding

248

"But leftism demands conformity"

A truism that lies at the heart of the current debate - today's "left" is a monolith in so many aspects of day to day life - not unlike the religious oversight of day to day medieval life, thus today the local "government building" is the "community center" to which the populace goes for advice, favors, promotion of interests, and more, and as that influence grows, so do the structures, thus the modern American Cathedral in so many small towns...

249
Obama is proposing a program of student loan forgiveness with the taxpayer picking up the tab

Guess who the students will think is looking out for them

Posted by: Carr the Threadwalker at February 16, 2013 12:37 PM (mCvL4)

That's where GOP should say that it's the colleges that took their money and gave them a clunker education, not the banks or the taxpayers.

250

yes. They now own you. and threaten to have those things you are beholden to away if you don't vote their way. dependency =owned! it's hateful

Posted by: willow-ette at February 16, 2013 12:41 PM (nqBYe)

 

Yep. And it starts insidiously, with "subsidies." The Feds take tax money from states, and then dole it back (after taking their cut), but with strings attached, even though the money originally came from the state.

 

I first realized this during the Carter (mal)Administration, when the Feds withheld highway funds unless a state enacted that moronic 55 mph speed limit nonsense.

251 bl

252

So I'll step into this.....less than lightly

Don't wait for (as someone said on an earlier post) the "Knock at the Door"

Because my dear M+M's, it is far past late maybe to do a single DAMN thing that will may any deference. Time is now or time to plow.
Who do you swear your rifle, pistol, sword or pitchfork to? What Flag will you post to? Who will you rally to? Given the current status of the party that is "THE" MARXIST FREELOADING CORRUPT BASTARDS who wish to hang the free market with a rope made in our own factories and just for the record are lead by the cabal of the JUG EARS....are you waiting for........what.......exactly? The REPUBLICANS?

BONED we be...

Still I ask you.....what will you do?

Republicans????....Enablers....hopeless flacid white boys just trying to protect the pension......eyein the exit door 24/7....and FUCK u too...

 

jus sayin.........jus sayin  

253 Yep. And it starts insidiously, with "subsidies." The Feds take tax money from states, and then dole it back (after taking their cut), but with strings attached, even though the money originally came from the state. The Feds are no better than the Supranos.

254 Closely related to this phenomenon is the tendency of fellow travelers to insert their politics into inappropriate situations as though they're certain all present will necessarily agree with them.

This really pisses me off no end. For example, I had some liberal bitch come to pick up our son to play with hers, and right in my house went off on a rant about Bush.
 
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 16, 2013 12:32 PM

That's why I prefer the company of my kittehs to most people. Teh kittehs don't bring politics into every conversation, just food

255 When the results always lead in a leftward direction, there is no effective difference between the parties. You can delude yourself with comforting lines about the Dems being worse, but the result is the same. You can't argue against results. I can't believe some people are still asleep after November.

256 I can't wait to see the collective meltdown when Hillary is elected in '16.

Posted by: truth at February 16, 2013 12:42 PM (VbTKR)

Word!!

257 Still I ask you.....what will you do?
Republicans????....Enablers....hopeless flacid white boys just trying to protect the pension......eyein the exit door 24/7....and FUCK u too...

jus sayin.........jus sayin Posted by: Richard at February 16, 2013 12:47 PM

Hoooo-wahhhhh!

258 *whine*

It's turning cold, wet, and windy here.  Down to below freezing tonight, after days of warm weather.  Azaleas coming into full bloom, and the citrus trees are beginning to bloom.

*whine*

259 Jay  I agree. cannot believ ethe population  doesn't recognize the downfall of selling themselves out for  bullshit.

it really is like staying a child under mothers roof but without  the " this is what is Really good for you "


dependance without a day when you know you are free to make your own decsions  and also to take responsibility for those.
the good and the bad.

anyway off to grocers.

260 This really pisses me off no end. For example, I had some liberal bitch come to pick up our son to play with hers, and right in my house went off on a rant about Bush. Please tell me you said something.

261 That's where GOP should say that it's the colleges that took their money and gave them a clunker education, not the banks or the taxpayers.
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 16, 2013 12:46 PM

As much as they insist that they're "thinking" types, they don't think in hypotheticals and abstracts.

It's not the colleges calling them up and demanding payment. They go by who is responding to their tales of woe with "fuck you, pay me"

262 Alinsky will never work for the GOP because Alinksy only works when there is complete unity. See the 2012 election for example -- no matter what stupid or outrageous thing Obama said ("You didn't build that") or did (flew to Vegas day after 4 American deaths in Benghazi) every single person with a D after their name from Debbie Wasserman Shultz to Harry Reid were on TV lying their asses off to protect Obama.
Meanwhile, on the right, there were PLENTY of people taking their cue from the NYT to bitch at Romney's "timing" of his Cairo embassy statement. And if you pointed out that we should be presenting a united front you were not only attacked and derided as a "Mittbot" but loudly scolded  that we shouldn't have a nominee whom we have to defend in the first place (never mind that defending Obama is the full time job of the NYT, WaPo & the DNC).
Need a more recent example to believe me? Look at those on the right who "agreed" that Rubio's sipping water was "awkward" -- eff that shit -- Alinksy calls for us to be labeling Chris Matthews a racist for implying Rubio is a wetback, NOT "conceding" that the moment was awkward and then laying out a rational analysis that the only reason Matthews wants to focus on that is because he can't address Rubio's arguments. Ridiculing them on their focus on trivial b.s. doesn't work because they have no SHAME; laying out rational arguments in response to them doesn't work because they can't THINK; attacking them in a way in which they can't defend (such as the "racist" argument they've been using on us for the last 4-5 years) is the only way to go. But that isn't happening on the right -- instead we've got SE Cupp going to the NYT and denouncing Rush Limbaugh as "dangerous."
Now the newest victim seems to be Dr. Ben Carson -- pray God loves the man enough for him *not* to run for public office, because the moment he does is the moment people on the right start loudly complaining that he "isn't a good politician" and he "doesn't have enough experience" etc. while the left denounces him as an Uncle Tom -- and that man doesn't deserve that.
Until the clown show on the right gets itself together, it will keep getting rolled by OFA.

263 I actually had a neighborhood lady refuse to let her kids play with my kids because of the McCain Palin sign in our yard. Spiteful ugly little troll she was. I told her to piss off. The wife wasn't happy with me.

264 226 laughing. watch that swing though ok? i still wear hippy flower skirts, potato sack shirts and Birkenstocks on days i'm just hanging out! Posted by: willow-ette at February 16, 2013 12:32 PM (nqBYe) Pics plz.

265 *sniff sniff*  I smell a libtard.

266 Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at February 16, 2013 12:54 PM (jucos) ------------------------------------------ Stinky sock

267 As much as they insist that they're "thinking" types, they don't think in hypotheticals and abstracts. It's not called "thinking" when you spit back exactly what you were spoon fed.

268 You , Open Blogger and CBD fail to realize there is an  Achievement GAP with minorities, and we as a Great Society are privileged to share that gap...
foolish Conservatives!!!!

269 I saw somewhere that a majority of Hispanics who voted for Obama thought he was prolife.

270 Please tell me you said something. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 12:52 PM (1Aqe2) I wanted to hear the end of it too. I just imagined myself in the scenario and how those sorts of exchanges usually end in my experience with the other person either a) apologizing profusely, b) weaseling out with "I'm not really into politics", or my personal favorite c) in tears.

271

Please tell me you said something.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 12:52 PM (1Aqe2)

 

Once again, as on the thread the other night, alas, no. Mrs. Guevara again was the stumbling block. She glared at me not to, as she was concerned that our son would lose a friend, and I kept the peace.

 

The irony is that the fellow traveler's kid dropped our son as a friend shortly thereafter anyway.

 

I'm always torn on these issues, because as in the case of the teacher with the Jugears cutout in the classroom, it's cheap for me to tee off, but my kids will pick up the tab. OTOH, I hate letting this kind of bullshit go.

272 Apophis is SMOD, it's not scheduled for some 15 years from now, this one was just the 'Scrappy Do' of asteroids, and it's taking in the sights.

273 Me and willow-ette are going to try to rehabilitate the image of Birkenstock-wearers.

274 But that isn't happening on the right -- instead we've got SE Cupp going to the NYT and denouncing Rush Limbaugh as "dangerous."

Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 12:54 PM (w3JGl)

Whut?! Why did she think so?

275 Encourage cement shoes when swimming in the ocean

276

I just imagined myself in the scenario and how those sorts of exchanges usually end in my experience with the other person either a) apologizing profusely, b) weaseling out with "I'm not really into politics", or my personal favorite c) in tears.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 16, 2013 12:56 PM (DvVVN)

 

Actually, left to my own devices, I'd apply Socratic method. Becoming obnoxious, always an early choice for me, doesn't do any good. But asking questions that gradually point out the inconsistencies in the fellow traveler's views, might plant the seed of doubt.

 

And in my defense, whenever this situation arises and I'm on my own tab, I do speak up. I just don't want to put my kids behind the eight-ball, especially with Comrade Teacher.

277 "The Speckled Band" was based on false science:  The bell pull alerted the snake, who then wiggled down to bite the victim


snakes don't have ears--can't hear.  Conan Doyle, he didna know that

278 It's not called "thinking" when you spit back exactly what you were spoon fed. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 12:55 PM

My lefty brother called himself a "thinking person" after reciting to me every piece of prefabricated lefty dogma that the MSM manufactures.

He's my brother and I love him, but sometimes I think Michael Corleone had the right idea

279 Want to see the ill effects of Obama-style utopian immigration?  Look at Colorado and their latest gun-grabbing legislation.  And you can thank California for that.

280 Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 16, 2013 12:59 PM (AWmfW)

It was a general denouncement -- no specific examples given and she doesn't think she need to give any. I read about it on Twitchy (link):

http://tinyurl.com/cmzqqul

281 Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 16, 2013 12:42 PM (IDSI7)

The Complete Sherlock Holmes is available on Kindle..for free!

282 Hispanics prefer and vote for big government and high taxes.  As they stay longer in the USA, they get married less and go to church less


chasing after them is pointless, fruitless, and f*ckin stupid

283 275 But that isn't happening on the right -- instead
we've got SE Cupp going to the NYT and denouncing Rush Limbaugh as
"dangerous."


Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 12:54 PM (w3JGl)

Whut?! Why did she think so?
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 16, 2013 12:59 PM

SE Cupp works for MSNBC now as their latest "token conservative" and I can tell from her tweets that she's starting to "turn Injun".  Any day now, you'll hear compliments from Mika on how SE has "grown"

284 I'm still pissed off that I drank the Rombley Kool-Aid. Lots of posters here telling me not to worry about the lack of ads from Romney. "This is how it's done in the 21st Century! Stay cool, keep your powder dry, don't be high maintenance." Guilty. I believed they were doing the ground work because they told us they were doing the ground work and its SO FUCKING SIMPLE to do it. Fuck October 2012 me

285 249 --- THIS. Within leftism there are some competing interests, such as the environmentalists vs. unions. But ideologically (or religiously, as you suggest) there is great conformity. The fundamental principles and propositions are shared by everyone.... or else! The "Right" is not a mirror image of the Left in that respect. To take an admittedly extreme example, Ayn Rand and John Paul II do not start from the same premises. What we on the Right share is a loathing of big, unlimited government, the theocracy of Caesar worship. Being of Central-American origin, I naturally like to call us "Contras," counter-revolutionaries. We are a rather diverse and contentious lot, unified by a loathing for the enemies of ordered liberty, i.e., the Left.

286 I'm still pissed off that I drank the Rombley Kool-Aid. Never drank it, felt like Jones town. Worked my ass off anyway and here we are.

287 Cupp, Scarborough, Meggie McBoobs, etc never learn from history that things always end far worse for the collaborators than for the oppressors or occupiers

Maybe Meggie thinks she'd look hip with a shaved head

288 "Closely related to this phenomenon is the tendency of fellow travelers to insert their politics into inappropriate situations as though they're certain all present will necessarily agree with them." Facts not in evidence. It's all in your head. Projection.

289 SE Cupp works for MSNBC now as their latest "token conservative" and I can tell from her tweets that she's starting to "turn Injun". Any day now, you'll hear compliments from Mika on how SE has "grown"

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 01:04 PM (mCvL4)

I agree, but that is irrelevant to my point, which is that we don't present a united front to the public and unless and until we do the right will keep getting rolled by OFA. 

290 I agree, but that is irrelevant to my point, which is that we don't present a united front to the public and unless and until we do the right will keep getting rolled by OFA. Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 01:09 PM (w3JGl) When SE started fuckin a libtard, I knew the end was near.

291

 

138...The Republic can only survive as a Christian nation.

 

Posted by: Hopeless at February 16, 2013 12:04 PM (D90Db)

 

 

But it is our 'Christian principles' that have led to the problems that we have...because they have been used against us.

 

"Turn the other cheek"

"Freedom of Religion"

"Free Will" has given rise to 'freedom of expression' and has been parlayed into a widespread exploration of depravity.

 

So, unfortunately...one could argue that this 'experiment' of basing a Republic on Christian principles, is flawed.

Because it is failing.

 

292

The Complete Sherlock Holmes is available on Kindle..for free!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 16, 2013 01:02 PM (GsoHv)

 

Yep. I got it from archive.org, and re-read 'em. Great stories.

 

I got a Sony e-reader some time ago, and have yet to buy a book for it. Just reading or re-reading the classics, and various out of print books available for free, has kept me well-stocked in reading material.

293 When SE started fuckin a libtard, I knew the end was near.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 16, 2013 01:10 PM (l86i3)

Brooks or Frum?

294 I'm not Canadian, but I think curling is the greatest sport in the world, after baseball.

Posted by: rickl at February 16, 2013 11:32 AM (sdi6R)

Curling is a sport that is open to practically anybody. You don't need to be a super athlete to play competitively, but you do have to develop skills. And since a large feature of the game is the drinking in the bar afterwards, it is Moron-friendly!

Incidentally, curling is of Scottish origin, and they brought it to Canada. But it is now enjoyed world-wide.

295 osp se is young....and foolish...

296 hey aop

297 263 --- Excellent point and well said.

298 I always knew Romney would lose, because that 's who he is. "Mendoza line" boring Mormon horse-dancing wife dog on the roof if the car elevator Cayman Islands account -- bottom line he sucked, and we got stuck with him. Conservatives let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Yes, brain-farting ninja rock amnesty loving Texan Perry would have been better, but he said Oops during a debate once. So, we got Romney, who agreed with Obama on everything and quit debating him after the first one.

299 se is young....and foolish... Posted by: phoenixgirl waiting for spring training at February 16, 2013 01:12 PM (GVxQo) Yep, I guess at one time most of us were.

300 My lefty brother called himself a "thinking person" after reciting to me every piece of prefabricated lefty dogma that the MSM manufactures. I do what Jay does on his own dime, I ask simple questions. Demolishing lefty arguments is so pitifully easy because they don't even know the other side of any given argument, because they're never permitted to hear it. Whereas, we have all suffered through that shit and thought our way out of it, each after some personal epiphany. I work with very nice woman an undergrad from Cornell and a Masters from MIT who - allegedly - understands economics. One day I made a reference to Milton Friedman in a meeting and she comes up to me afterward and asks who that was. I just laughed because I thought she was making a joke. She wasn't. She had never heard of Bastiat, Hayek, or Von Mises either. She had never heard of Eric Hofer. After some minor pleasantries, I just said to her that I was very sorry she had been so shortchanged in her education. We don't talk much anymore.

301 I support any conservative activist group that the left screams about. The NRA is very effective. Freedom works has been getting a lot of negative left attention. These groups keep voters engaged. It's what the left does with their infinite special interest groups.

302

So, unfortunately...one could argue that this 'experiment' of basing a Republic on Christian principles, is flawed.
Because it is failing.

Posted by: wheatie at February 16, 2013 01:10 PM (DZbQ0)

 

Yep. And Christianity contains more than a streak of socialist thinking, which the Reds highlight and use against us (the "help the poor" business), notwithstanding that most of the poor are so because of their own decisions.

303 I wonder how many ski slopes have been closed down this weekend for Mooch's private use?

I'm trying hard not to picture her in ski pants.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 11:42 AM (UOM4

Look for a rash of Bigfoot sightings in Colorado.

304 #111 "If we don't fight back effectively, look at Detroit and see our future." Chicago, with its Democrat domination of politics and its therefore unavoidable violence and corruption, is now the new Detroit. Obama wants to bring that model to the entire nation.

305 Associated Press shows they know as much about WW II fighter planes as they do about fucking;

Global video gaming company that backed search for WWII fighter jets says no planes in Myanmar

http://tinyurl.com/ct7vybw

A global video gaming company that funded a search for dozens of World War II-era British fighter jets in Myanmar says none of the legendary planes are buried in the Southeast Asian country.

Aviation enthusiasts hunting for the lost planes believe as many as 140 Spitfires were hidden in crates in pristine condition in three Myanmar locations.

Masses of LIVs will "know" that Spitfires are jets because "experts" told them so

This is what we're up against

306 And Christianity contains more than a streak of socialist thinking, which the Reds highlight and use against us (the "help the poor" business), notwithstanding that most of the poor are so because of their own decisions. They're down with the "solidarity" part of Christianity. However, they always leave out the "subsidiarity" part. They do that because they are lazy....and prefer to subcontract virtue.

307 The Republic can only survive as a Christian nation.

Posted by: Hopeless at February 16, 2013 12:04 PM (D90Db)

So the Jews are right out, then?

308

Ya know, this is going to sound cold and heartless, but I am sick and tired of hearing about monuments, playgrounds, $ donations for Sandy Hook victims. Blah, blah, blah.

 

How about condeming the damn freak that did this and doing something about the mentally ill running all over the place?

309 A global video gaming company that funded a search for dozens of World War II-era British fighter jets in Myanmar says none of the legendary planes are buried in the Southeast Asian country.

Aviation enthusiasts hunting for the lost planes believe as many as 140 Spitfires were hidden in crates in pristine condition in three Myanmar locations.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 01:16 PM

Excuse me, could you tell me why the jets have those propeller thingies on the front?

310

I do what Jay does on his own dime, I ask simple questions. 

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 01:13 PM (EpY2d)


 

One of my favorite techniques is to elicit substantive information, rather than make assertions or even asking yes/no questions.

 

So for example, I might ask, "How would you characterize the Obama Administrations fiscal policies - as inflationary, deflationary, or neither, and why?" Or, "What would you consider to be the beneficial, and what the deleterious consequences of inflationary policies?"

 

That forces them to consider the substantive issue, rather than regurgitating leftist talking points. As an aside, it's amazing how few lefties actually have ever thought about things this way.

311 So the Jews are right out, then? Jews have been a part of this action since before the Revolution....and Christianity is built upon Judaism. So no....they're good to go.

312 I was listening to Hannity in the car yesterday (don't judge) and he had some smug lib on mocking Rubio for the water drinking.

Hannity asked him if he'd ever heard his "brilliant" messiah pronounce "corpsman."  The guy was silent for a couple of seconds and said, "no."  Hannity then played audio of TFG saying "corpseman" several times. 

The libtard's reply was, "Well, plenty of people probably wouldn't know how to pronounce it." 

Hannity:  "He's the commander-in-chief."

Then Hannity played other clips of TFG fucking up facts, etc. 

The lib really didn't have any smug comebacks.  It was a thing of beauty.

313 Another good example -- the left has decided to label Ted Cruz "Joe McCarthy" -- and how does the right respond? By defending Joe McCarthy as being proven right! WTF -- who gives a sh!t? Attack the left for being so scared of a Hispanic man that they are reduced to trying to link him to a Mick from Wisconsin.

314

Excuse me, could you tell me why the jets have those propeller thingies on the front?

 

To keep the jet engines cool, silly.

315 No, she married a former lobbyist for the NRA, which makes her denunciation of Rush, kind of off key.

316 se cupp wants to be liked.....and bashing rush is a step in that direction....

317 Aviation enthusiasts hunting for the lost planes believe as many as 140 Spitfires were hidden in crates in pristine condition in three Myanmar locations.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 01:16 PM

I'm not an historian, but could someone tell me if the RAF even deployed Spitfires in the CBI theater of the war?

The "fighter jets" bit is beyond stupid even for an intern

318 As an aside, it's amazing how few lefties actually have ever thought about things this way. Oh, that's not an aside. That's the very operational definition of being of "the left". I cannot tell you how many of those Socratic discussions I have had that ended with me saying "Well, I've asked you your position on 10 issues and with the exception of abortion you've given me the Republican Party platform every time. Welcome". One woman I did that to never spoke to me again. Sad. She was the cutest ginger I ever knew.

319 No, she married a former lobbyist for the NRA, which makes her denunciation of Rush, kind of off key. Posted by: archie goodwin at February 16, 2013 01:25 PM (Jsiw/) There are plenty of libtards associated with the NRA, which is kind of hard to understand. Of course I spent 20 years working for a Motorcycle Co. and I don't like the things so there is that.

320 Excuse me, could you tell me why the jets have those propeller thingies on the front?

Posted by: Thinking Reporter Asking Hard Questions at February 16, 2013 01:22 PM (mCvL4)

Primitive deflector dish.

321

So, before I nach off to bed after my night shift 3of 5 16 hour days with 2 other jobs to tend to....ask yourself.....you better off than.....1985?..95?...2005?

if you say "OH HELL YA!!"...you are probably suckin the state tit for disability, welfare, or "FUNEMPLOYMENT or all of the above and drivin an MB with a distinct Eastern EURO dialict.....COMRADE??? or you may be just from DETROITKA!!....or Glendale Ca.

yeah...it's like that bitches.....and they are laughing in yo faces all the way to da races....unless they be south of...then they be all driving Escalades with the RAIDERS window wraps.........

 

.....WORD!

322 Hannity asked him if he'd ever heard his "brilliant" messiah pronounce "corpsman." The guy was silent for a couple of seconds and said, "no." Hannity then played audio of TFG saying "corpseman" several times.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 01:23 PM

That's a problem I have with HANNITY! , he uses the same old tired comebacks, he's like a pitcher who is easy to hit because he always throws that pitch in a situation and he always tips his pitches

Let's face it folks, he's just not very bright

323 317 se cupp wants to be liked....



...and invited to all the "smart" cocktail parties.


She's been sitting at a table with Toure, Krystal Ball (gah) and that other lib douche for too long.

324 "So for example, I might ask, "How would you characterize the Obama Administrations fiscal policies - as inflationary, deflationary, or neither, and why?" Or, "What would you consider to be the beneficial, and what the deleterious consequences of inflationary policies?" Hell, anytime I go socratic on a lefty I have to get waaaay more basic than that. You're going over the average lefty college-educated head there. I've exposed them on something so easy as "How would you characterize Obama's fiscal policy?" and watched them squirm and bullshit. It's so easy to get them to change the subject by going socratic that it takes the fun out of it.

325 se cupp wants to be licked....

326 Let's face it folks, he's just not very bright

Posted by: kbdabear at February 16, 2013 01:30 PM (mCvL4

Agreed.  The purpose of the post was to illustrate that the lib had never heard "corpseman, 57 states, etc. etc."  He was shocked into silence.

327 se cupp wants to be licked.... Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2013 01:32 PM (j6Z29) Where does the line start?

328 Don't make Gabriel Malor cry.

329 you know what hannity needs? more phone conversations with velma ......dear God

330 Yesterday was just another typical day for the fucknuttery known as leftism on facebook

Some leftard posted a vid of the Russian meteors and said "NOW what do you think of cutting government spending on research!"

I would have countered with "no one says cut ALL government spending, just the idiotic stuff"

I didn't bother, it would have been as effective as pouring water on a bocci ball

331 219 Many on the left might not see which way the long march eventually goes. Example, we used to share Gary Null's vegetarian recipes. Now he has a radio show where he preaches against global watmrming. Maybe you thought yoga was a nice way to relax your body and mind, but now there is a Facebook group that targets heterosexual whites as enemies of social justice. (Decolonizing Yoga, and their symbol is the Fist For Wisconsin Unions Against Walker.) The left is rarely honest, but always organized.

332 If Hillary is elected in 2016 the collective meltdown (of our economy, that is) will have al;ready happened and Hillary would be running as far from Obama she can will still trying to sound like a Democrat. Given that she ran against him before doing the "You should have nominated me before" won't be too hard.

333 Never was a big Rush fan, but I've listened to him enough to know that anyone who says he's "dangerous" either hasn't listened to him or is lying, or both.

334 Mary Katherine Ham married a lib, Jake Brewer.

I don't understand falling in love with someone who pretty much believes in the polar opposite of one's beliefs. 

Kind of like someone who hates Joooos marrying a Jew.

335 "I'm not an historian, but could someone tell me if the RAF even deployed Spitfires in the CBI theater of the war?"

The RAF wasn't going to lose even a 140 Auster's, it's idiotic to think they just forgot about a 140 Spitfires. The whole story is boogus. You don't misplace a 140 airplanes.

336

Never was a big Rush fan, but I've listened to him enough to know that anyone who says he's "dangerous" either hasn't listened to him or is lying, or both.

 

2112 is  still a great record.

337

 

Hannity is FoxNews' token conservative, in their evening lineup.

He's better than nothing...but, he does telegraph his punches.

And he is very repetitive in his use of phrases.

 

The FoxBusiness channel has more conservatives than FoxNews channel.

Varney, Dobbs, Asmin, Cavuto...those guys bring the good arguments, complete with hard facts.

 

Eric Bolling is a good guy, too.

He had a good show on FoxBusiness...'Follow The Money'.

Shame they cancelled it.

 

338 "If Hillary is elected in 2016 the collective meltdown (of our economy, that is) will have al;ready happened and Hillary would be running as far from Obama she can will still trying to sound like a Democrat." Wanna bet?

339 2112 is still a great record. Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2013 01:38 PM (j6Z29) Snakes and Arrows isn't bad either.

340 Jews have been a part of this action since before the Revolution....and Christianity is built upon Judaism.

So no....they're good to go.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 01:23 PM (EpY2d)

Yeah, I know that, and you know that, but I wonder if Hopeless knows that? He keeps pushing that false dichotomy, that if you're not a Psalm-singing Bible-thumper, then you're a fucking commie. It's the crap like his that the Progressives cherry-pick and then use to slander all Conservatives.

341 Kind of like someone who hates Joooos marrying a Jew. Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 01:37 PM (UOM4 Maybe it's the hot Makeup sex after the fights.

342 314 I actually think it's a fair point that McCarthy was right. We should be talking more about Obama's ties to the New Party and communist proclivities, but we're afraid of being called racists. He's in his second term now, anyway.

343 She had never heard of Bastiat, Hayek, or Von Mises either. She had never heard of Eric Hofer. After some minor pleasantries, I just said to her that I was very sorry she had been so shortchanged in her education.

Posted by: Sean Bannion

One of my favorite techniques is to elicit substantive information, rather than make assertions or even asking yes/no questions.
...
That forces them to consider the substantive issue, rather than regurgitating leftist talking points. As an aside, it's amazing how few lefties actually have ever thought about things this way.

Posted by: Jay Guevara

This x1000.

If you are engaging co-workers or family or neighbors this is the best method of having political discussion if you must have them.

Asking questions is the rhetorical equivilant of aikido; you're not directly confronting someone, turning their defenses on. You're stepping aside so the other person gets caught on their ideological hand-holds.

After listening to them bumble through an explanation of what the lefties want, follow it up with something like;

"Well, since there is often another side to debates and we aren't always able to see everything relevant to an issue, what is the conservative argument?"

Of course their natural instinct is to go full-blown insult mode and regurgitate the "Meany McHatey Rethuglikkkans!" line of nonsense. You then gently interrupt and ask them if that's what the Right really believes to be its own position. Get them to actually try to describe the Right's position in neutral as possible terms.

The Left operates in that close-minded sphere that they accuse us of operating in. They really don't *want* to understand the arguments from our side, mostly because we're right a lot of the time and those arguments leave them open and exposed.

344 Wann bet what? That Hillary wouldn't repudiate Obama somewhat if the economy is in a complete shambles? She loathes the man. if she can get away with saying "I'm the REAL Democrat" to win she'd do it in a heartbeat.

345 Mary Katherine Ham married a lib Wow, they really take The Long March seriously don't they? We've got a few morons here that are paired up with polar opposites. I dated a lib once for about a month. She was astounded to hear opinions different from her indoctrination.

346

335...I don't understand falling in love with someone who pretty much believes in the polar opposite of one's beliefs.

 

Yeah, like Mary Maitlin and James Carvell?

 

Talk about 'sleeping with the enemy'.

She was a high level campaign strategist, for Pappy Bush...and was sleeping with Carvell.

 

347

Good Morning...

Sleep now.

348 O/T

Just got back from gun show.  Got there before it opened and had to wait 45 minutes to get in. 

Not much to be had and all way overpriced.  Ammo was simple ridiculous.  I guess Big Sis buying up all the shit is working.  No shells for less that a buck a piece, 556, 223, etc.  5.7 $1.20 a shell.

After an hour they announced that the Fire Marshall would not let any more people in.  We left about an hour later and there were over 700 people standing in 30 degree rain waiting to get in.  This was at noon.  When we left the parking lot there was a line of cars almost a mile long trying to get into the lot.

Amazing.  Lots of guys trying to sell their AK's for ridiculous prices. There seems to be plenty of supply if you wanted to get fucked.  Now they are souping up $250 10/22 with rails etc and selling them for $500.

My son and I bought a gun sleeve, hard to mark those up, and laughed our way home.

349 I realize the initial post sounded a little unclear' Sorry. I think in running Hillary would run away from Obama if we had already experienced meltdown. How she'll actually GOVERN.-No substantial difference as far as wanting to make America into the perfect socialist state

350 Mary Katherine Ham is no better then Cupp. She actually posted a video of herself yesterday claiming she outwit Juan Williams by getting upset when he claimed she didn't care (about gun deaths), her big counter argument was that she does care about people. I'm sure she thought she was going to be basked in praise by this, but even the Hot Air commenters turned on her for her shitty argument and the fact she is friends with Williams. She dug her hole deeper by claiming she doesn't want to live in a world were she can't be friends with liberals.

351 Many on the left might not see which way the long march eventually goes. Example, we used to share Gary Null's vegetarian recipes. Now he has a radio show where he preaches against global watmrming. Maybe you thought yoga was a nice way to relax your body and mind, but now there is a Facebook group that targets heterosexual whites as enemies of social justice. (Decolonizing Yoga, and their symbol is the Fist For Wisconsin Unions Against Walker.) The left is rarely honest, but always organized.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at February 16, 2013 01:36 PM (7h5MH)

One of the things the Left does is to form hundreds of interlocking organizations. Most of these have shared directorships amongst a relative small group of individuals. It gives the impression of there being a huge number of like-minded people, but it's really nothing more than the same gangs flying different flags.

352 Yo, nice rant.  But seriously, you want to get Ace shut down or something?  You can't post direct links to scanned PDF copies of books that aren't in the public domain, i.e. out at Project Guttenberg.  You just can't.  It's illegal, it is felony copyright infringement.  Post a link to Amazon with Ace's referrer code and help feed the head Ewok instead of trying to bring down a plague of assault lawyers upon him, K?

That said, I do think everyone who reads here should read Rules for Radicals.  I know I consider my own copy money well spent.  Of course new copies just aren't the same without the original dedication to Lucifer, I hear they took that out of the new reprints.  It is like reading The Prince, small book packed tightly with pure Truth and pure Evil.  It is possible to be both; and when somebody does it it is really unsettling.

353 301 --- "She had never heard of Bastiat, Hayek, or Von Mises either. She had never heard of Eric Hoffer." Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 16, 2013 01:13 PM (EpY2d) I can't tell you how many lefties I run into who sincerely believe that the only reason anyone believes in conservatism is because of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. With the older ones, you can point out that Rush and Fox did not exist when Reagan was elected. You can remind them that there were eeeeevil conservatives polluting our politics and obstructing the Movement long before they had that tiny sliver of the mass media. IIRC, Aristotle, Cicero, Aquinas, Augustine, Burke, Adam Smith, Tocqueville, and all of our Founding Fathers ( to name but a few) preceded Fox News too!

354 john morris i'm too lazy to look up thread, what are you talking about?

355 She dug her hole deeper by claiming she doesn't want to live in a world were she can't be friends with liberals. Posted by: lowandslow at February 16, 2013 01:46 PM (Fz2C7) Well then, I guess miss priss can live in a world where she wears a burqua. I really had high hopes for her.

356 ugh.....i'm proud i don't have any lib friends....i have some as acquaintances but that is it.....

357 The Left operates in that close-minded sphere that they accuse us of operating in. They really don't *want* to understand the arguments from our side, mostly because we're right a lot of the time and those arguments leave them open and exposed. Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 16, 2013 01:41 PM (Ipj15) ---- Yup...US Liberalism is the most prevalent form of psychological projection ever.

358 We've got a few morons here that are paired up with polar opposites. I dated a lib once for about a month. She was astounded to hear opinions different from her indoctrination.


My lovely wife was a lib when I met her.  She claimed the usual lib positions, but since her time with me, I've turned her into a small L libertarian, soft-rightwing.  She's usually apolitical but like most LIV, gets caught in libtard momentum and doesn't know any better.  Now, she's asking questions about everything and isn't just blindly voting like she used to.

359 314 I actually think it's a fair point that McCarthy was right. We should be talking more about Obama's ties to the New Party and communist proclivities, but we're afraid of being called racists. He's in his second term now, anyway.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at February 16, 2013 01:40 PM (7h5MH)

You would think that's a good point to focus on.

No one gives a shit that McCarthy was eventually proven right and with the MSM protecting Obama you will never break through to the LIVs on his past associations -- everyone who cares already knows.

But screaming about how racist Sen. Boxer and Chris Matthews are  for being so scared of a Hispanic man in the Senate that they try to smear him by linking to an Irish guy from WI from 50 years ago -- now that's Alinsky.

The fact that you refuse to and/or can't see that makes you part of the problem on the right that I've been talking about.

360 Hey, my wife watches HL news and wanted me to explain why we shouldn't ban "Assault guns".  She didn't even know what one was, but CNN and the MSM say they are bad.

We own about ten.  I tried to show her the difference, but it was like talking to a brick wall.

Thus does the MSM indoctrinate the womyns.

361 Just got back from gun show. Got there before it opened and had to wait 45 minutes to get in.

Where was this show?  Fairgrounds?

362 352 Mary Katherine Ham is no better then Cupp. She actually posted a video of herself yesterday claiming she outwit Juan Williams by getting upset when he claimed she didn't care (about gun deaths), her big counter argument was that she does care about people. Posted by: lowandslow at February 16, 2013 01:46 PM (Fz2C7) ---- Saw this. It made me throw up a bit in my mouth. Protip: People who accuse you of "not caring" about children being shot are not your friends.

363 Miss Margarita - RE "contrast" In "Liberty & Tyranny", Levin referred to today's progressives as counter revolutionaries. I had to think about that one for a minute. He was right. The Founders were the true revolutionaries. They freed us from the European aristocracy which is the system the so called progressives of today want to take is back to.

364 Eric Bolling is a good guy, too.
He had a good show on FoxBusiness...'Follow The Money'.
Shame they cancelled it.

Posted by: wheatie at February 16, 2013 01:39 PM (DZbQ0)

He's now hosting their 'Cashin' In' show.

365 "Wann bet what? That Hillary wouldn't repudiate Obama somewhat if the economy is in a complete shambles?" Precisely that. Hillary is a leftist. She will have the same complicit media providing cover. Obama's approval ratings seem to be divorced from his performance and I see no reason to believe they will tank to a level where she will need to run away from him. She may hate him, but she's no political dummy. The media and Dems (BIRM) have spent over 4 years blaming Bush, so you think they're going to suddenly reverse course and heading back toward him?? Tell me which sounds more plausible coming from campaign Hilary, keeping in mind where the media mouth has been the past 5 years: "We need to distance ourselves from the policies of the previous administration. The policies of failure." or "A vote for a Republican is a vote to return to those failed policies we've been working so hard to correct these past 8 years." So...wanna bet?

366

366...He's now hosting their 'Cashin' In' show.

 

I thought he was just filling in for David Asmin.

He subs for Cavuto a lot, too.

 

367 I have liberal friends which is not a surprise after being a liberal for 30 years before a political conversion. However, one I walked out on and we don't ever talk about politics anymore. and the other one heard that I didn't vote for Obama in 2008 and didn't in 2012 either and doesn't bring it up with me.

368 "358 ugh.....i'm proud i don't have any lib friends....i have some as acquaintances but that is it...."

It isn't like we have cut ties with a golfing buddy or childhood friends or neighbors because of their liberalism, but we don't have to talk politics with them either. People like Ham and Cupp link their value with their ability to be "friends" with the media and beltway masses. Who the fuck starts socializing with Juan Williams and people like him in the first place?

369 The fact that you refuse to and/or can't see that makes you part of the problem on the right that I've been talking about.

Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 01:51 PM (w3JGl)

 

 

--- You are correct but you are wasting your breath

370 I thought he was just filling in for David Asmin.
He subs for Cavuto a lot, too.

Posted by: wheatie at February 16, 2013 01:56 PM (DZbQ0)

I thought he was too but last week I heard his other hosts on The Five congratulating him on getting that show.

371 Building my new utopia right now. Moving into my new place in DT FW. Moving is hell but there are many beers on ice for later. CBD, I agree with you but I can't deal with TFG. Not today.

372 The GOP leadership will so totally not get invited to the right parties in Georgetown, should they go boomerang Alinsky on the Democratic Party. So, count the Boehners, Roves, and McConnells out of any such counter-offensive against the left as that called for in the OP.

373 Damn auto correct. "contrast" = contras Margarita.

374 "He manipulates the Republican party extremely effectively."

That certainly applies to the old fuddy duddy roll over and play possum Graham and McCain Republican "leadership".

Not every Republican is gaga over Bambi. Time has come to replace the Big Gov Republicans with the 'less is more' newcomers into party leadership. The GOP voters have been turning in the ballots to deaf national leadership since 2008: Out with the old.

Barbara Boxer and Claire McCaskill offered a biting label for Texas Senator Cruz: McCarthy. Funny, Boxer/McCaskill thus parallel themselves as communists in their own analogy.

375 Yep, Metrolina.  It was wild.  If you want to go, I would go Sunday morning.  Not much out there, but on Sunday they may be cutting some prices.  All the suckers have gone through.

I was amazed at how many rednecks were trying to sell their guns.  Times are tough and momma probably told them to get rid of that shit so we can buy some food, gas, etc.

I wasn't in the market, but if you want to drop $1500 on a $800 AK, there are plenty of them.   Most every gun was marked up double the real price.  They wanted $120 for a $50 folding stock. 

I don't think they will deal much either.  This spring, it will clam down. Until then, I am not buying shit.

376

 

I can't believe that the Left has the nerve to even bring up McCarthy...

Since *they* are the ones who are openly practicing 'McCarthyism' these days.

 

The way that the Left demonizes conservatives...and persecutes them...is exactly the way that McCarthy went after communists.

 

 

377 The Founders were the true revolutionaries. They freed us from the European aristocracy which is the system the so called progressives of today want to take is back to.

Posted by: teej at February 16, 2013 01:53 PM (4Zmpq)

Its a huge uphill battle to waken a generation that has been brainwashed to march eyes wide open into slavery.

378 Perhaps the GOP should start reading this: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1232

379 One of the things the Left does is to form hundreds of interlocking organizations. Most of these have shared directorships amongst a relative small group of individuals. It gives the impression of there being a huge number of like-minded people, but it's really nothing more than the same gangs flying different flags.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 16, 2013 01:46 PM (673KB) 

ABC , CBS , CNN , NBC.

380 You are correct but you are wasting your breath.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at February 16, 2013 01:57 PM (R8hU

Ayup. :-)

381

372...I thought he was too but last week I heard his other hosts on The Five congratulating him on getting that show.

 

Ah. Thanks, Tami...I missed that.

Cool.

I'll have to watch him, I love Eric Bolling.

 

382 If the economy is in a complete shambles people will not hear what she says about not repudiating the policies of Obama the same way they heard the words of the faux messiah the first time. Personally. I think it's a moot point. The economy will tank and we will have martial law under Obama.

383 The Founders were the true revolutionaries. They freed us from the European aristocracy which is the system the so called progressives of today want to take is back to. Posted by: teej at February 16, 2013 01:53 PM (4Zmpq) I'd argue the opposite was true. The colonies had generally self-governed, or at least had decisions ratified by the popular assemblies. It was the British that wanted to change that and interfere. The colonies fought for their traditional English liberties. They were the conservatives, while it was the British who were the revolutionaries, in this sense. This is why the American Revolution brought forth a good nation, while other revolutions (e.g. French, Russian, Chinese, &c.) resulted in chaos and death.

384
It isn't like we have cut ties with a golfing buddy or childhood friends or neighbors because of their liberalism, but we don't have to talk politics with them either. People like Ham and Cupp link their value with their ability to be "friends" with the media and beltway masses. Who the fuck starts socializing with Juan Williams and people like him in the first place?

Posted by: lowandslow at February 16, 2013 01:57 PM (Fz2C7)

But Rush is dangerous.

385 335 --- "I don't understand falling in love with someone who pretty much believes in the polar opposite of one's beliefs. " Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2013 01:37 PM (UOM4 I don't either. I especially don't understand the lefty man with the conservative woman. It's too much like the stupid guy with the smart woman. Doesn't compute. Now, I'll concede there is a certain kind of lefty guy that used to appeal to me when I was young. I was very artsy and ran in an artsy crowd. The poetic type of Bohemian rang my chimes, if (and only if) he was also good-looking in a masculine way. But I never thought of marrying such a type.

386 yeah, i haven't cut ties with childhood friends...and in my blood family there is only one full on lib....and i'm not going to cut ties with him over that....but i'm careful about the people i let into my life as a general rule and if they are liberal that door is shut...

387 But yes, I agree, that of course, Pravda American style will continually provide cover for the Obama administration. As long as they get their big money they don't care what happens to the US.

388 Yeah, I know that, and you know that, but I wonder if Hopeless knows that? He keeps pushing that false dichotomy, that if you're not a Psalm-singing Bible-thumper, then you're a fucking commie. It's the crap like his that the Progressives cherry-pick and then use to slander all Conservatives. I must have missed that part. Projector.

389 Angienc, who is scared of anyone on the right's ethnicity, and who gives a flying fuck that McCarthy was Irish or from WI?

390 265. The Founders were the true revolutionaries. They freed us from the European aristocracy which is the system the so called progressives of today want to take is back to. Posted by: teej

Yes.

I'm reminded of the English who killed their king for a civil war only to give it up and "reset" the monarchy to rule the roost. So, what was the point of their civil war to empower Parliament more directly connected with "the people" when monarchs demanded absolute power? Oh, so long as the monarch budges on "absolutism" or authoritarianism, be grateful for Big Brother in charge.

The truly authentic genius of our Founders has been revised in the telling. But those who appreciate the value of a pearl, even if tossed into mud, won't give up the real thing for a fraud.

391 365 Miss Margarita - RE "contrast" In "Liberty & Tyranny", Levin referred to today's progressives as counter revolutionaries. I had to think about that one for a minute. He was right. The Founders were the true revolutionaries. They freed us from the European aristocracy which is the system the so called progressives of today want to take is back to. Posted by: teej at February 16, 2013 01:53 PM (4Zmpq) -------------- I understand his point, but this is not the 18th century. (Besides, the Founders were very conservative and traditionalist in many ways, more secessionist than "revolutionary" in the modern sense. Note their opposition to the Jacobins of the French Revolution.) The revolutionaries of OUR age are pre-eminently the Marxists and neo-Marxists, although the Nazis and Fascists (rightly) considered themselves revolutionaries as well.

392 And btw, the progressive movement of today started getting its claws in a hundred years ago. I posted an abbreviated quote from Israel Cohen's (commie) "A Racial Program for the 20th Century" circa 1912, a couple days ago. The "white guilt" we see today, yup, it's in there.

393 "If the economy is in a complete shambles people will not hear what she says about not repudiating the policies of Obama the same way they heard the words of the faux messiah the first time." The economy was already in a shambles when the re-elected him. The same percentage of voters heard his words twice and bought what he was selling both times. The paradigms for what people will vote for have obviously changed. Carter had better numbers in many respects and they threw him out on his ear.

394 We've got a few morons here that are paired up with polar opposites. I dated a lib once for about a month. She was astounded to hear opinions different from her indoctrination. I married one. Californian, hippie chick, in the "arts community" She's more of a conservative than I am now. Not sure if it was the steady diet of derision or Laura Ingraham that finally pulled her to the dark side.

395 385. Posted by: The Political Hat at February 16, 2013 02:02 PM (Vk2pI)

You're ignoring the forms of governance NOT being the same.

And don't think it was the first time the British or any other monarch overtaxed his subjects to finance wars, or boarded soldiers in the homes of subjects or confiscated the homes in foreign lands on conquests, or confiscated weapons from the subjects in question, or refused to allow free market in order to monopolize on special interest vprofits.

396 phoenixgirl @356 said, "i'm too lazy to look up thread, what are you talking about?"

Sorry, thought it would be obvious.  I'm talking about CharlieBrown's Dildo.  His article is peppered with tinyurl links to a PDF of Rules for Radicals.  A commenter would be one thing, but someone with posting rights doing that shit just ain't going to end well. It isn't legally defensible.  Somebody with access really need to fix that before a legal situation develops.

397

<i>"A vote for a Republican is a vote to return to those failed policies we've been working so hard to correct these past 8 years."</i>

 

The "Bush tax cuts for the rich caused the deficits and the financial crisis" storyline has been etched in stone in the Narrative.  The Democrats will be able to run again on this Lie in 2016,  And 2020.  And probably 2024.

 

Not contesting the Narrative was the worst thing G.W. and crew ever did.  The Bush administraiton is the Gift that Keeps on Giving for progressives.

398 283 Hispanics prefer and vote for big government and high taxes. As they stay longer in the USA, they get married less and go to church less


chasing after them is pointless, fruitless, and f*ckin stupid

I've been wondering for while if we aren't going after the wrong Hispanics.  We keep thinking "Hispanic...Catholic...conservative."   That might have been true 40 years ago, but not now. 

Maybe, instead, we should be trying to pick up Hispanic Evangelicals, who are a significant minority.  We generally do well with Evangelicals.  And while I have enormous respect for the Roman Catholic church, it is, after all, a Big
(Ecclesisastical) Government church.  People who left the RC for a small, independent church might be much more receptive to our way of thinking.  The Dems might still carry the majority of Hispanics, we could shave a good number off their share.

399 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 16, 2013 01:46 PM (673KB) It all comes back to cash money. When your royal portraitist doles out NEA grants to your brothers in arms, you're incentivizing enrollment. And yeah, it's relatively few people, but they take their cues from Sxrlrod and fake a grassroots movement. It works, too. A majority of Americans believe 24% of the country is gay, as opposed to the actual 3%, by the time the media is done with them. Suddenly, refusing to redefine marriage to accommodate their sensitivities is the same as denying them AIDS care. Mind you, people like Andrew Sullivan want a widespread AIDS epidemic.

400 No; I'm talking about complete shambles-economic collapse. in which case it's all a moor point. They may have a hard on for Obama Chavez wanna be in which case the election will just be window dressing/

401 Angienc, who is scared of anyone on the right's ethnicity, and who gives a flying fuck that McCarthy was Irish or from WI?

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at February 16, 2013 02:07 PM (7h5MH)

Since you named me in your post, I'm responding out of politeness.

But seriously -- way to entirely miss the point asshat.

I'm done wasting my breath on you.

402 You're ignoring the forms of governance NOT being the same. And don't think it was the first time the British or any other monarch overtaxed his subjects to finance wars, or boarded soldiers in the homes of subjects or confiscated the homes in foreign lands on conquests, or confiscated weapons from the subjects in question, or refused to allow free market in order to monopolize on special interest vprofits. Posted by: panzernashorn at February 16, 2013 02:13 PM (MhA4j) I'm not confusing anything. The colonies had their own legislatures, and continued to have them after independence. The changes were evolutionary, not revolutionary. It was the British who tried to upsurp the old order, and violate their ancient English liberties; the colonists were angry at the taxes because they were internal taxes being imposed from the outside, as compared to taxes approved at home, of good taxed based on their transportation to/from the colonies.

403 364 Protip: People who accuse you of "not caring" about children being shot are not your friends. Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 16, 2013 01:52 PM (Y5I9o) The correct response is "Fuck you." I no longer have any liberal friends. The hell with them. Since Nov. 6, they can starve in the gutter for all I care.

404 Quit going after groups. Micro target districts and especially the cities. Bring the fight onto their turf, and don't wait till the last few weeks of a presidential race,

405 The French revolution was not about freedom. It was about replacing one aristocracy with another. See Russian Revolution; also Mao Political Hat - Then someone forgot to tell "the crown" that the colonies were free to rule themselves without paying tribute.

406 "Besides, the Founders were very conservative and traditionalist in many ways, more secessionist than "revolutionary" in the modern sense."

That's because the term revolutionary didn't mean what it does now, what we call a revolution and revolutionaries was actually based on the French Revolution of 1789. We were secessionist, not revolutionaries.

407

What Carter largely suffered from was the economic stagnation of the '70's as a decade, compared to the high growth decade of the 60's.  People knew the difference.

That, and the Federal Reserve was cranking up the prime rate to fight inflation.  That can't happen today because the National Debt is so high, if the interest rates went up, the Federal budget would be broken.  Fun times just around the corner.

And of course, the Iranian hostage debacle.

A friend bought a new house in 1980, and people praised him because he got a fixed rate of  12% on the 30 year home loan.  People in those days were talking about multigenerational 60 year loans to be able to buy houses, because the interest rates were climbing out of sight.

408 Sorry-"Moot " point.

409 Since you named me in your post, I'm responding out of politeness. But seriously -- way to entirely miss the point asshat.I'm done wasting my breath on you. Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 02:17 PM (w3JGl) All the dreams we held so close Seem to all go up in a smoke Let me whisper in your ear, Angie Angie, where will life lead us from here?

410 "The revolutionaries of OUR age are pre-eminently the Marxists and neo-Marxists, although the Nazis and Fascists (rightly) considered themselves revolutionaries as well."
__

Yes. And the distinction of what "we" are attempting to conserve should be clarified. We want our Constitutional Governance and rights as US citizens respected by our own constitutional governing officials.

Our Founders amalgamated the conservative and revolutionary ideals when formulating our Constitutional Government, classically and symmetrically balanced/separated powers, the government to be ruled by The People, the voting literate citizenry.

In the 18th century, the old guard was conserving the rights of absolute monarchies which effected authoritarian governance. In that, today's Marxist revolutionaries would return to the glory days of authoritarianism. And as the Jacobites wanted all the power and rights formerly attributed to the French monarchy, so the socialists today would have absolute powers over the populace seen by them to be "subjects" -- NOT citizens and certainly without any Bill of Rights.

411 So if anyone's "moderate" it would be today's so-called fiscal conservative that eschews authoritarianism.

412 From Lawrence Auster (whose dying from brain cancer, BTW) about the terminology of our Revolutionary War.

"It meant revolution in the sense of the revolution of the earth around the sun in which the earth returns to its starting place. That was the meaning given to the English Revolution of 1688-89. The English felt that by toppling James II they were returning to the true order from which James had departed. The American revolutionists saw themselves in the same light. George III had departed from the true order by claiming a power over the colonies that had never been claimed before, and they were returning to the true order in which the colonies governed themselves."

413 Political Hat - Then someone forgot to tell "the crown" that the colonies were free to rule themselves without paying tribute. Posted by: teej at February 16, 2013 02:19 PM (m4AUe) That "someone" was Parliament. And yes, their sudden interest in meddling with the colonies internal affairs, when previously the colonies had been left to grow and develop on their own, was the crux of the matter.

414 /off usagimimi sock

415 To tell the truth, my wife was a liberal until Beslen. It shook her up. Through misty eyes she said, Fuck em, fuck em all.

416 Was the Parliament the final ruling authority in 1776 or was it the king? Were the founders being seen as "traitors" to the Parliament or to the crown? And please don't see any questions I ask as sarc.

417 404 I'm not confusing anything.
__
I didn't say you were. I noted what you were ignoring, the distinction between the British and American determination.

The British fought their civil war only to return to the old ways, and have yet to desire abandoning their tradition of maintaining a Monarch. And America wasn't the only colonial entity being abused by the British Monarch and Parliament, as Ireland was abused ferociously.

Americans got over that desire for a monarch by 1776. Our own unfortunate civil war "four score and seven years" subsequent was not to reinstate any monarchy, but regarded the US Constitution's protection of rights, namely States rights (and civil rights). The Federal taxation system at that time resembled the practices of the British leading to our secession from that Empire, as Northern industrialists got the Congressional votes to impose an unfair taxation/tariff system on the Southern agrarian states, avoiding their own equal responsibility to contribute to the federal treasury. And of course, the morality of slavery was very significant, and is not being glossed over by my main point regarding constitutional rights, whether economic or civil as both intertwine.

418 223 Flounder,

Not according to the preamble to the Constitution.

If they come from men then they can be denied by men, and we return to might makes right.

Such sloppy thinking us fucking pathetic, and the desire to be free from the moral constraints of natural law is the very rot that has so harmed the Republic.

Posted by: Hopeless at February 16, 2013 12:31 PM (lhNul)

Ugh - preamble merely states what the guys who wrote it believed at the time regarding God and religion.  It is by no means a treatise on religion, the origin of man and his rights, or anything else that supports your various premises and conclusions. Fucking pathetic indeed.

You can wish there was more God in the country all you want.  I have a strong sense that a primary focus on religion is one of the primary things that is killing the chances of our more viable, and more widely palatable, platforms of individual liberty, strong national defense, and fiscal conservatism.

Why do you hate gays?  Why do you want to force rape victims to bear their attacker's children?  

See how easy that is?  Your not helping your cause, and your derailing the rest of ours.

Your morality play may be the way to go in the bible belt of deep red states. The founders intended that each state be a social experiment unto itself.  You might find it surprising that people can be moral without believing in any god, or while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved. 

But your insistence on moral purity regarding government's role in our lives (whether real or perceived) has a good chance of killing off any hope of saving this country from the shift away from fiscal conservatism and individual liberty.

419 How about we not be so hasty to flush "squishes" down the toilet? We need a couple more million votes. Or...are you telling me a bunch of conservatives sat out the election because Romney wasn't pro-family values for them to get behind?

420 Was the Parliament the final ruling authority in 1776 or was it the king? Were the founders being seen as "traitors" to the Parliament or to the crown? And please don't see any questions I ask as sarc. Posted by: teej at February 16, 2013 02:35 PM (wIEXv) Parliament was in the drivers seat since the beginning of the reign of George I.

421 Posted by: angienc at February 16, 2013 12:54 PM (w3JGl) Have you read his books or watched his interviews? Saul Alinsky didn't invent anything new and would be the first to admit he didn't invent anything new. He was just shrewd enough to adapt proven, centuries-old organizing and messaging techniques to his situation, which was the American political scene in the 50's and 60's. Another thing, too: Alinsky didn't demand absolute 'unity' in the sense most people mean 'unity'. He was more interested in bringing disparate groups together by highlighting common interests and objectives. Leftist lockstep ideological and organizational conformity--especially that practiced by the hardcore Maoists and Leninists on the far-Left--annoyed him no end because Alinsky knew internecine conflicts over fine points of dogma and rigid adherence to Party Logic destroy more leftist 'movements' than conflict with The Man. Read the guy. His ideas are as old as Machiavelli. Older.

422 207 -- That's a great idea.

423 You might find it surprising that people can be moral without believing in any god, or while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved. Posted by: assault flounder at February 16, 2013 02:40 PM (Kkt/i) I was an atheist once (for much of my adult life). I don't remember being a patronizing asshole who automatically assumed people of faith were complete idiots. Is it a requirement now?

424 No, assault flounder--Jefferson himself believed profoundly in a Creator, and said (approxiamtely) "If we forget that our rights come from the Creator, and not from ourselves, we are lost." It is central to the Declaration and the Constitution that our rights are not given by man. If our rights come from man, then we really are slaves of the government. What you said, "Ugh - preamble merely states what the guys who wrote it believed at the time regarding God and religion" leads straight to a "living Constitution", which in the end is no Constitution at all. John Adams said, "This constitution was made for a moral and religious people, and none other." Events seem to be proving him right.

425 I was an atheist once (for much of my adult life). I don't remember being a patronizing asshole who automatically assumed people of faith were complete idiots. Is it a requirement now?

Posted by: troyriser at February 16, 2013 03:02 PM (ptcFO)

Your probably taking something out of context and then poorly alluding to something that is making me an asshole in your eyes.

Care to elaborate?

I know I can be an asshole and all, but in a thread about getting the country back on track, going Alinsky an all, the solution is to get right with God?  I begged to differ.

426 OT: Presentation Matters: Senator Rubio vs. Senator Rubio http://politicalhat.com/?p=1463

427 Those of us who are Christian should be humble enough to know we don't always set a good example.   Quite often this is the case,  which is a shame.

Atherists should probably realize that often their position is borne of pride, seeing themselves as people who do not need God and perhaps also think they are smarter than the average Christian.

The problem before us right now is one of preserving a republic in which people are free to believe (or NOT believe) as they wish.  In case both sides don't realize this,  take a look around.   Obama is currently attempting to make the Church bow to the will of the state,  and his minions will not be happy until everyone (and that includes you atheists) is forced to worship Obama as the savior of the world.

I suggest coming to terms with the fact that all of us have different beliefs which should be put to use preserving our country, whether through prayer or action. I say this as a practicing Catholic.

428 John Adams said, "This constitution was made for a moral and religious people, and none other." Events seem to be proving him right. . . .

I am done here.  All I am saying that turning off a large number of people by appeals to "more religion please" is not helpful here in blue or purple America.  Our last few elections, we had a gubernatorial and a senate candidate lose by only a few thousand votes with more than a million voting.  That may play in red America, but it is a recipe for disaster elsewhere. And as a consequence of national elections, we lost what could have been the deciding vote on Obamacare. 

Regardless of what the FF said or believed, I reject the notion that a refusal to acknowledge that there needs to be more religious-based morality in the US leads inexorably to a living Constitution or none at all. We can, with all logical consistency, use what the FF said and wrote at the time the Constitution was drafted ABOUT ACTUAL SUBSTANTIVE LAW (the Articles, the Amendments) to fix what the Constitution meant at the time it was adopted, while simultaneously rejecting the notion that more religion is what we need to right this country (and rejecting any appeals to the FF's writings on religion and its basis in the formation of the Constitution for support of the former).

429 Thanks Miss Marple.  Also realize that there are atheists and agnostics - they are not the same.  Being either of those does not necessarily make one hostile to religion or religious practices (despite any of my prior comments indicating otherwise). I agree more often than not with religious conservatives on matters of social policy. It's just that these positions are motivated by different concerns.

430 "....and his minions will not be happy until everyone (and that includes you atheists) is forced to worship Obama as the savior of the world. I suggest coming to terms with the fact that all of us have different beliefs which should be put to use preserving our country, whether through prayer or action. I say this as a practicing Catholic." AMEN The cult like devotion accorded Obama- and the suggestion that anyone who doesn't "worship" him is a heretic-ought to seriously concern anyone-religious or non religious. He's one his way to being the perfect dictator-life size statues and posters on buildings and all.

431 Meant-ought to concern anyone who's not already part of the cult.

432 assault flounder @430 said, "I reject the notion that a refusal to acknowledge that there needs to be more religious-based morality in the US leads inexorably to a living Constitution or none at all."

Sorry dude, that just means you haven't though it through very well.  Since we lack a complete philosophical system based entirely upon pure reason all of our political systems have certain axioms at their base which are simply taken as such on faith.  One of ours is the whole "... endowed by their Creator with certain Rights..." part.  As an agnostic myself this does bother me a bit but as an agnostic instead of an atheist I can just say "Well we don't know enough yet to have a complete philosophy" and take a longer view.

But if you take the externality of a Creator away you do lose any brake on devolving to a rule of men, living Constitution situation.  There currently isn't any purely rational replacement for "because God said so." backing up our inalienable rights.  Until you sit down and think it out, and realize that Truth, are you ready to decide whether you, as an Atheist, can still buy into the whole American philosophy.

And hint: Objectivism is still incomplete enough it can't supply a basis either.  (yet?)

433 Why go from not fighting at all to fighting underhanded?  Why not just go from not fighting at all to fighting?  Calling Obama out when he lies, pointing out he's a demagogue, daring to mention his ties to anti-American nutjobs, pointing out the MSM is a bunch of partisan hacks doesn't require a Republican party that fights dirty.   All it requires is a Republican party that fights.

434 CBD, you nailed it.  Kudos.

435 are to elaborate?I know I can be an asshole and all, but in a thread about getting the country back on track, going Alinsky an all, the solution is to get right with God? I begged to differ. Posted by: assault flounder at February 16, 2013 03:17 PM (Kkt/i) You invoked multiple straw men, which seems to be your specialty in argument. For one thing, I didn't 'go Alinsky'. I responded to a poster who claimed that employing Alinsky's tactics required complete unity, a lockstep approach to achieving the objective, which--based on Alinsky's own writings and interviews, is not the case. Nor did I claim the solution to our political problem is to 'get right with God', although I do believe our rights are endowed by our Creator, whom Jefferson called 'Nature's God' and whom Washington referred to as 'Providence'. The key seems to be understanding 'Creator' to mean 'That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves'. Your implicit argument seems to be that atheism/agnosticism is the pathway to Reason and Enlightened Thinking. The death camps and gulags of the 20th Century were perpetrated almost entirely by those sharing your non-belief. Mao, a famous atheist, murdered more people in a slow week than the dreaded Spanish Inquisition wrongly persecuted in 200 years. Thus, it doesn't follow that non-belief is the default 'reasonable' stance when given a choice between believing or not believing in God. I have little patience with atheists. They can rarely defend their position without coming across as pompous assholes.

436 "But the voters are more ignorant than ever, and they are being manipulated more effectively than ever." how do you know the public isn't just more liberal today out of their own convictions

437 Populism is the main thing that is wrong with politics.

438 how do you know the public isn't just more liberal today out of their own convictions Posted by: JDP at February 16, 2013 05:36 PM (8HhF2) 'Convictions' imply deeply held beliefs resulting from intellectual rigor and prolonged and principled moral examination. I doubt those to whom we refer to as 'low-information voters' hold such down-to-the-bone political beliefs. Many are more liberal for the same reason they prefer Brand A detergent over Brand B detergent. Of course, it helps that the company that owns Brand A also owns the network.

439 If you are serious about fighting tyranny in our time: Join the ranks of patriots speaking out and announce your position as a conscientious objector. As such we refuse to provide the IRS with our private health care information, we refuse to be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine for refusing to do so and we willingly accept the possibility of being jailed for our refusal. Obamacare violates our religious beliefs, our right to privacy, our right to make our own decisions on how best to provide for the well being of ourselves and our families. Conscientious objector status is most often associated with resistance to war. Well, war has been declared on our most fundamental rights to religion, privacy and individual freedom. Can we count on you?

440 Conscientious objector status is most often associated with resistance to war. Well, war has been declared on our most fundamental rights to religion, privacy and individual freedom. Can we count on you? Posted by: Devan at February 16, 2013 06:07 PM (w3cmD) Conscientious objector status is exclusively associated with war and likely to remain so, given that it is an official categorization for a certain class of individuals seeking and/or granted noncombatant status in the event of military conscription. What you're describing is good, old-fashioned nonviolent resistance. Such an approach sometimes works, as Gandhi and MLK could attest; that is, if both hadn't been assassinated.

441 440 well OK but some of the people who voted for Bush the second time weren't deeply conservative but agreed with him on national security. it's a question of convincing people and the GOP didn't do that last go around, partially because Romney was mostly either trying to shore up conservative support or talking about how he "knows business" without making an ideological case. i don't discount media impact but i think some of it's overstated and wouldn't matter so much if Republican candidates presented their case better.

442 Bush reference, i mean that he had "soft support" from certain voters and that doesn't make them idiots. Kerry just failed to convince such people, and Romney didn't either vs. Obama. deflecting blame to the media/voters is misguided

443 "Most younger people are also pro gay marriage and pro choice. " former yes. latter no. also how are you certain that either was the absolute deciding factor in the states that matter? if you think a pure Paul Ryan strategy of numbercrunching is going to bring the GOP back, you're a maroon and just operating from your own biases

444 @434 Sorry dude, that just means you haven't though it through very well. - - - I don't think you follow. - - - But if you take the externality of a Creator away you do lose any brake on devolving to a rule of men, living Constitution situation. There currently isn't any purely rational replacement for "because God said so." backing up our inalienable rights. Until you sit down and think it out, and realize that Truth, are you ready to decide whether you, as an Atheist, can still buy into the whole American philosophy. - - - I am not an atheist. I am agnostic, and I don't begrudge men of faith. Can we not agree that as rational men, men of history, men of science, etc. that we could agree that there are certain things that deserve protection in our society, a society that is formed based on a contract between its members and its government? Just because our nation may have been founded on Judeo-Christian principles, it does not mean that is the only way a nation such as ours can be formed, nor does it doom such a nation into a rule of men, living Constitution system. What you offer as a Truth, I see as a post-hoc justification for continued insistence that religion play a central role in the governance of man. As far as taking the "externality of a Creator away" causing you to "lose any brake on devolving to a rule of men, living Constitution situation . . . ," I ask, "how has that creator helped keep us on the straight and narrow, lately, and how did that help those that were living under monarchs laying claim to divine right?"

445 I have little patience with atheists. They can rarely defend their position without coming across as pompous assholes. Posted by: troyriser at February 16, 2013 04:50 PM (ptcFO) Yeah, I think I either misidentified the post that I was referring to when discussing with Hopeless, or you misunderstood my response was to Hopeless (check it). I might be mistake, but I never addressed you, except when asking for clarification when you called me out. Also, when referring to Alinsky, I was referring to the OP topic, not anything you were undertaking in this thread or advocating. In any event, I might apologize for my tone, because considering the medium, it is easy to be misunderstood. Otherwise, recognize that one can be an atheist or agnostic, respect people of faith and their rights to practice, not be leftists, liberals, or advocate or participate in genocide. Perhaps I am getting the wrath for all the pent up hate that the aforementioned types have ginned up within people of faith. But I can assure you, you should check your fire, because I am not the agnostic you are looking for.

446 He deserves our obedience, and our subservience. He has been sent to humble this out of control nation, this rogue state, this bastion of racism and violence. He has been sent to lead us back to the community of humanity.


All should praise the name of Barack Obama.

447 But I can assure you, you should check your fire, because I am not the agnostic you are looking for. Posted by: assault flounder at February 16, 2013 07:49 PM (Kkt/i) You wrote to 'Hopeless', "You might find it surprising that people can be moral without believing in any god, or while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved." I don't know of anyone of faith and possessed of a reasonable amount of intelligence who believes one must be religious in order to be moral. I won't presume to speak for 'Hopeless', but I've heard that accusation made before and find it abrasive and patronizing. Since very few religious people think that way, what you're doing is arguing a straw man, a construct pulled from the air in order to give your argument a validity it does not otherwise possess. Further, I wasn't arguing that you advocated genocide and other atrocities because you shared non-belief with some who did. What I was arguing is that non-belief is not the default 'reasonable' position since--at least in the 20th Century--atheists managed to kill more people than those killed by religionists of one sort or another in all other previous centuries combined. Your last argument, "people can be moral...while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved" is another straw man since you're essentially positing another aspect of agnosticism that--insofar as I can see--was never offered up as a subject for debate. Further, use of the term 'acknowledging' implies that the premise, 'the existence of God can neither be proven or disproved' is settled, a self-evident, proven fact. Whether or not God's existence can be proven is still very much an open question, and is yet another argument. You can break out Wittgenstein's truth tables if you like and diagram the daylights out of it. If you did, you'd find your argument doesn't hold up there, either. Few doubt the ability of agnostics to make moral decisions and lead ethical lives. History is full of such men and women. The core argument we're having here regards the source of our rights. If our rights are not endowed by 'Our Creator'; that is, a higher Natural Law aka That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves transcending humanity, then our rights are derived from men, which means those rights can be given or taken away at the whim of men powerful enough to give them or take them away. The central Founders such as Jefferson, Adams and Washington were not conventionally religious men, by and large. They were Sons of the Enlightenment, for lack of a better term. They were also possessed of enough humility to recognize there exists a Power greater than they from whence our rights are derived.

448 @223 Flounder, Not according to the preamble to the Constitution. The preamble to the constitution says nothing about where rights come from: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

449 @450

Thanks jbarntt.

450 @449 But I can assure you, you should check your fire, because I am not the agnostic you are looking for.
Posted by: assault flounder at February 16, 2013 07:49 PM (Kkt/i)

You wrote to 'Hopeless', "You might find it surprising that people can be moral without believing in any god, or while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved."

I don't know of anyone of faith and possessed of a reasonable amount of intelligence who believes one must be religious in order to be moral. I won't presume to speak for 'Hopeless', but I've heard that accusation made before and find it abrasive and patronizing. Since very few religious people think that way, what you're doing is arguing a straw man, a construct pulled from the air in order to give your argument a validity it does not otherwise possess.


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Wrong.  You either do not know what a strawman is, or you failed to comprehend what was being discussed.  I might recommend that you read and understand a conversation before chiming in and insinuating that someone is being a patronizing or pompous asshole.

I'll lay it out for you.  

Hopeless writes "This Republic can only flourish in a Christian society, with a Christian people.  All attempts to do otherwise will fail. Ace is a great example of why this is so. As a professed atheist he is unable to accept that there are moral absolutes, and so even when he advocates for conservatism, he advocates for soft-leftism.  It's that very rot, even a little bit of moral relativism, that enters the field and spoils the whole crop."

Boil that down, you get that atheism = soft leftism, with Ace as an example, or that any morals that are not aligned with religiously-dictated doctrine (which are all relative to the particular denomination) is moral relativism, where one is "unable to accept that there are moral absolutes."  That's the base premise that is being discussed.  

Although your proposition that extends such a premise to making a moral equivalence between all atheists/agnostics and genocidal dictators comes after the fact, it illustrates perfectly that rather than being "a construct pulled from the air in order to give your argument a validity it does not otherwise possess . . . ," my purportedly patronizing strawman exactly addresses the premise at issue, without exaggeration of the premise.

Also note that when you are going to attempt to give your argument the air of legitimacy by throwing out scare-words like "strawman," you might want to avoid being so sloppy in your own argument.  

You wrote: "I was an atheist once (for much of my adult life). I don't remember being a patronizing asshole who automatically assumed people of faith were complete idiots. Is it a requirement now?"  You also write: "I don't know of anyone of faith and possessed of a reasonable amount of intelligence who believes one must be religious in order to be moral."

So, in the first instance, you group me with people who have automatically assumed that people of faith were idiots (shorthand - those that think you cannot be moral without God).  Realize that wasn't ever said.  That is your own strawman.  I was addressing Hopeless and his premise. Then, to refute what is presumptively my premise (your strawman), you construct a group of people (faithful and possessed of a reasonable amount of intelligence), which could reasonably be said to include only non-idiots.  And, finally, you argue from this subset of the faithful (the non-idiots) to conclude that there are only a few idiots (only a few that, in shorthand, believe one cannot be moral without God) that are faithful.  

Your conclusion is a non sequitur and is based on an artificial group of non-idiots.  That is, you exclude idiots from your artificial group (those having a reasonable amount of intelligence), and then you argue from that artificial group that there are very few people of faith that are idiots in the real world.  Either it is very circular (a group of non-idiots has very few idiots), or the conclusion does not follow from the premise, and just asks us to rely on your anecdotal experience.

I understand that you can find such propositions made about entire populations (or generalizations) to be "abrasive and patronizing," but you fail to comprehend that your ire is misdirected.  I was talking to one person about one particular thing said.  Perhaps you would take your own cue and avoid making moral equivalences between non-believers and genocidal dictators.  
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Further, I wasn't arguing that you advocated genocide and other atrocities because you shared non-belief with some who did. What I was arguing is that non-belief is not the default 'reasonable' position since--at least in the 20th Century--atheists managed to kill more people than those killed by religionists of one sort or another in all other previous centuries combined.

Your last argument, "people can be moral...while acknowledging that the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproved" is another straw man since you're essentially positing another aspect of agnosticism that--insofar as I can see--was never offered up as a subject for debate. Further, use of the term 'acknowledging' implies that the premise, 'the existence of God can neither be proven or disproved' is settled, a self-evident, proven fact. Whether or not God's existence can be proven is still very much an open question, and is yet another argument.

You can break out Wittgenstein's truth tables if you like and diagram the daylights out of it. If you did, you'd find your argument doesn't hold up there, either.


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I am not engaging you in argument. I was discussing with Hopeless, his premises and conclusions.  You jumped in, and based on an unsupportable presumption (that I was painting all faithful with a broad brush) and insinuated that I was being a patronizing or pompous asshole.  I asked for clarification, and because you provided that, I thank you.

However, due to the sloppiness with which you read, comprehend and/or make a point, I consider it pointless to continue.

Nice walk-back on the genocide moral equivalence.  There is no argument that many of the perpetrators of genocide have been non-believers. Continued insistence on discussing this illustrates that you don't understand that this is beside the point. In addition, for one so intent on pointing out perceived strawmen, I find it disappointing how readily you employ argumentum ad Hitlerum to make a point.

I will give you the point about the premise of agnosticism (that existence cannot be proven nor disproved is accepted) being open for debate.  Again, not every flaw (or perceived flaw) in argumentation is a strawman.  There are many other types.  However, in this instance, that statement was merely intended to describe categories of types of people (atheists and agnostics) that might be able to fall into a group of moral people (if we could ever get that far) that don't believe in a god.  That it did.  It was not used to misrepresent or exaggerate any of Hopeless' premises or conclusions.


I'll leave the truth tables to you, but I am not convinced that you can carefully state the point at issue, given the above.
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Few doubt the ability of agnostics to make moral decisions and lead ethical lives. History is full of such men and women. The core argument we're having here regards the source of our rights. If our rights are not endowed by 'Our Creator'; that is, a higher Natural Law aka That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves transcending humanity, then our rights are derived from men, which means those rights can be given or taken away at the whim of men powerful enough to give them or take them away.


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Again, nobody is arguing anything with you, because, for one, you're out of the gate with patronizing or pompous asshole. And while I endeavored to unravel for your what is being discussed, between Hopeless and I, I don't have any faith in your ability to argue cleanly and clearly without resorting using fallacies as both a sword and a shield.

Witness: "Few doubt the ability of agnostics to make moral decisions and lead ethical lives."  Hopeless appeared to do just this or nearly so.  You just employed argumentum ad populum to support my point.  Please leave this to me.

Then you state, that the "core argument we're having here regards the source of our rights."  Wrong.  At best, this was subsidiary to, or used as a premise, ex post facto, to support the original supposition, to wit: any morals that are not aligned with religiously-dictated doctrine is moral relativism, where one is "unable to accept that there are moral absolutes."  Otherwise it was ancillary to or inapposite to the topic being discussed.
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The central Founders such as Jefferson, Adams and Washington were not conventionally religious men, by and large. They were Sons of the Enlightenment, for lack of a better term. They were also possessed of enough humility to recognize there exists a Power greater than they from whence our rights are derived.


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And here is an appeal to authority (Founders had humility . . . ) to support the subsidiary proposition that rights devolve from a deity only.  Aside from the fact that this is not the point of discussion, but was raised (whatever exactly for I forget now) as a remotely supporting proposition, it matters not whether the Founders believed or did not.  It is beside this subsidiary point.

One can still recognize that rights are respected in a society, whatever their provenance, and can endeavor to create a document that is the foundation of a central government that is designed and limited so as to protect those rights.

Hope this helps.
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