Ace of Spades HQ

February 14, 2013

Ron Swanson and the Arrested Development of Masculinity
— Ace

I don't know if I buy this, but, it has three points in its favor:

1) It's about an interesting subject.

2) It references a Popular Fictional Character.

3) I'm eating.

Posted by: Ace at 01:35 PM | Comments (143)
Post contains 47 words, total size 1 kb.

1 I'd hit the link but it would interrupt me watching you eat.

Hey, chew with your mouth closed.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2013 01:37 PM (w+Dvf)

2 Foist?

Posted by: Eurw at February 14, 2013 01:37 PM (l3ABL)

3 I blame Holden Caulfield.

Posted by: pep at February 14, 2013 01:38 PM (6TB1Z)

4 He came out against gun's and for gun control in that celebrity's against gun propaganda. Swanson is dead to me.

Posted by: Saar at February 14, 2013 01:38 PM (ryT1J)

5 100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2013 01:38 PM (53z96)

6 And Jim Stark.

Posted by: pep at February 14, 2013 01:39 PM (6TB1Z)

7 napkin on your lap, not tucked into collar.

not the spoon! a fork dear.

Posted by: ette channeling ace's mom at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (nqBYe)

8 100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18.

And turn the money over to their fathers until they were 21.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (/kI1Q)

9 Choose and renounce throwing chains to the floor Kill or be killing faster sins correct the flow Casting giant shadows off vast Penetrating force To alter via the war that seen As frictions spans the spirits' wrath ascending to redeem

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (QupBk)

10 Yes, Offerman is a gun control advocate. And is on NBC. Two strikes.

Posted by: EC at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (doBIb)

11 Only gays know how to be masculine these days.

Posted by: lonetown at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (ScVPC)

12 >>>Hey, chew with your mouth closed. whoah! How did you know? Do you have my computer's camera on?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (LCRYB)

13 I was 21 - I'd had three years in the USAF with 2 in Korea. My 17yo son (freshman in college) has been informed that he's expected to have his collective shit together and that I'm available to help him get his collective shit together should he need help/advice. I'll pony up chewing tobacco money for him or if he's going to a brothel. You know, manly stuff.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 14, 2013 01:41 PM (J8DGo)

14 I hate girly men. They are worthless like metrosexuals. Grow the heck up.

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2013 01:42 PM (O/fK8)

15 swipes elbow off the table.

Posted by: ette channeling ace's mom at February 14, 2013 01:43 PM (nqBYe)

16 Posted by: ace

I don't need no camera in your closet.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2013 01:43 PM (w+Dvf)

Horseshit.... what happened was that the expectation of Men, was LOWERED to that of Women...

Women wanted us to be just like them.... so many Males became dependent Girly Guys... because being strong and honorable was NOT rewarded.... it was derided... being self sufficient? why? no one else is....

Now Women are complaining.... that Men aren't around....

But we are around.... we are just busy going our own way, and laughing at those women....

And with that... I've got to go jump in the Camaro for a hot date, with a Redhead who DOES appreciate that I'm a Man... and is willing to put up with all the it entails.... LOL

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2013 01:44 PM (lZBBB)

18 I don't need no camera in your closet.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2013 05:43 PM (w+Dvf)

ok now that is scary!

Posted by: ette channeling ace's mom at February 14, 2013 01:44 PM (nqBYe)

19 What is best in life?!?!?!

Posted by: cajun carrot at February 14, 2013 01:44 PM (UZQM8)

20 Many women I know/knew didn't want to be "subjected" by men in seemingly traditional male roles.

"You're not my father!"
"You can't tell me what to do!"
"You don't own me!"
"You're not the boss of me!"

They cried.

So you bang'em and show them to the door.

Posted by: Fritz at February 14, 2013 01:44 PM (UzPAd)

21 Scary and rich.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2013 01:44 PM (w+Dvf)

22 Best Ron Swanson moment was when he was helping the little girl write her essay on "How Government Works," and she ended up turning in one sentence: "It doesn't."

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 01:45 PM (4pNjZ)

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 14, 2013 05:41 PM (J8DGo)

My Son.... 21... is currently stationed in Guam, for the US Navy.... been in 2 years...

Not ALL of that generation is lost... but its an uphill battle....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2013 01:46 PM (lZBBB)

24 then again, I made my kid watch "The Rockford Files", Mannix, and "Banacek" during his impressionable years.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 14, 2013 01:46 PM (J8DGo)

25 If you've ever encouraged your darling little boy to embrace his "feminine side".... #ThankAFeminist

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 01:46 PM (piMMO)

26 7 ette channeling ace's mom at February 14, 2013 05:41 PM (nqBYe) napkin on your lap, not tucked into collar. not the spoon! a fork dear. This sounds suspiciously like AtC, trying, once again, to establish etiquette most severe amongst the commenters ...

Posted by: Arbalest at February 14, 2013 01:46 PM (7z9RL)

27 then again, I made my kid watch "The Rockford Files", Mannix, and "Banacek" during his impressionable years. *** Funny. When I think of manly-men, James Garner and Jim Rockford come to mind.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (piMMO)

28 8 100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18.

And turn the money over to their fathers until they were 21.

Posted by: HeatherRadishÂ™ needs a beer at February 14, 2013 05:41 PM (/kI1Q)

And then turn it over to their wives after 21.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (Zd/NW)

29 This would be much longer post but I am on my phone and well.... The change in men's roles is due to a number of factors. Entertainment media, 'women's rights', etc. Quite frankly, for the single male with moderate to liberal values and a decent income, life can be pretty easy and fun. No commitment, low expectations, lots of of occasional hookups. But if a guys has any honor, morals, and character.... Well that is a different discussion.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (dMSey)

30 25 then again, I made my kid watch "The Rockford Files", Mannix, and "Banacek" during his impressionable years. Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 14, 2013 05:46 PM (J8DGo) Dad made sure I watched Conan: The Barbarian, Heavy Metal, and Dune.

Posted by: cajun carrot at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (UZQM8)

31 Another screed on what's wrong with men and a sycophantic self righteous paen (probably hoping to score with someone by having written it) on how accurate and pertinent the screed is.

No one gets that young men have come to understand (due to experience, either vicariously from TV or the internet or their friends) that growing up means enslavement to a killing and somewhat pointless lifestyle.

Go to college for a degree in something you find out later you don't like or that the people and politics in it you don't like and can't win at.

Get married and find you've signed your life away, even if you're lied to or manipulated and then cast off) for at least 18 years or you wind up working hard just to stay in poverty.

Finally succeed only to have all your reward taxed, declared illegal or repossessed because of debt, divorce and or rapacious daddy government.

Who needs it?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (qyv02)

32 Arbalest , nah, atc would bring smod along!

Posted by: ette channeling ace's mom at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (nqBYe)

33 The author makes a lot of good points, but ignores the elephant in the room: "committing to a serious, long-term relationship" is simply a risk too great, where a guy can lose half of everything for the slightest whim. Plus, why bother chancing it when the milk is free?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (vU7KM)

then again, I made my kid watch "The Rockford Files", Mannix, and "Banacek" during his impressionable years.

I loved those shows. Quincy too.

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2013 01:47 PM (O/fK8)

35 I'm a logger!

Posted by: Ray Stevens at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (UrENZ)

36 If you've ever been yelled at for daring to hold a door open for a woman.... #ThankAFeminist

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (piMMO)

37 The essay was not bad until this sentence:

"Men have to take the lead on this. I had to in my own life, and although some of the effects of my extended adolescence still linger, itÂ’s made all the difference."

--Wrong. Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses. Try it ladies: Men will come to understand what it takes to get the girl.

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (4pNjZ)

38 If you've ever encouraged your darling little boy to embrace his "feminine side"....

I did. He strangled the bitch.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (xKC/c)

39 I loved those shows. Quincy too. **** I still remember the opening, with him, ahem, inspecting a body.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (piMMO)

40 5 100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18.

They also died at 60.

Posted by: Naes at February 14, 2013 01:48 PM (r4dYV)

41 I told my boys the rules for college: 1. You pay 1/3 of the tuition. Money in my hand when the statement comes, in full, or you don't go. 2. Flunking out, withdrawal, or a leave greater than one semester ends our support. 3. You must choose your major carefully as you will be expected to earn a living with your degree. There will be no more support past undergrad. Grad school is on their own. Thankfully, the two oldest seem to be in good shape as they aren't suffering from unemployment. They may be disgruntled employees, but they're drawing paychecks every two weeks. Like men.

Posted by: EC at February 14, 2013 01:49 PM (doBIb)

42 >>>Wrong. Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses. meh, why is it on women?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 01:49 PM (LCRYB)

43 Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 05:47 PM (qyv02) We have a winner.

Posted by: cajun carrot at February 14, 2013 01:49 PM (UZQM8)

44 TL

R But basically, all social trends since the 1950s have been toward curtailing male impulses and popularizing female ones. Discuss.

Posted by: zsasz at February 14, 2013 01:49 PM (MMC8r)

45 if this has something to do with the generation of delta males being raised, I concur

Posted by: soothsayer at February 14, 2013 01:49 PM (wAng0)

Yeah my father was in the Marines at 17 and in the Korean War at 18. It screwed with me a bit during my college days because my brain would not let me whine more than 2 seconds before thinking about that. Stupid brain.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 01:50 PM (m2CN7)

47 Is this going to be another AoSHQ Styleguide thread?

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2013 01:50 PM (Ug9zL)

48 If you've ever told your little boy that real men aren't afraid to cry.... #ThankAFeminist

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 01:51 PM (piMMO)

49 love the character of ron swanson.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl, happy St. Valentine's Day at February 14, 2013 01:51 PM (GVxQo)

50 40 If you've ever encouraged your darling little boy to embrace his "feminine side"....

I did. He strangled the bitch.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at February 14, 2013 05:48 PM (xKC/c)

I'm sooooo stealing that.... LOL

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2013 01:51 PM (lZBBB)

51 meh, why is it on women? Civilization is always on women. To a young single guy, long term is next payday.

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:51 PM (QupBk)

52 fwiw - Sledge Hammer! could use a reboot.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (J8DGo)

53 25 then again, I made my kid watch "The Rockford Files", Mannix, and "Banacek" during his impressionable years. Mannix? I miss ol' rubber head ( he would get KOed in every show) as well as Barnaby Jones having a glass of milk in every bar.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (dMSey)

54 Wrong. Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses.

meh, why is it on women?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 05:49 PM (LCRYB)

Because men are controlled by what women want. Has been that way since one of them launched a thousand ships.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (m2CN7)

55 Speaking of manly men, Die Hard is on one of the Cinemax's right now. Oh Hans Gruber, you sexy bitch you.

You want to know why there's a Die Hard 'verse and why there have been five movies over four decades and two centuries? Because John McClane is a manly man and isn't ashamed of it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (Gk3SS)

56 listen I'm just as concerned about mens feelings as i am his sitting down to urinate .

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (nqBYe)

57 my screensaver is ron swanson's pyramid of greatness

Posted by: phoenixgirl, happy St. Valentine's Day at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (GVxQo)

58 44 >>>Wrong. Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses.

meh, why is it on women?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 05:49 PM (LCRYB)

--Women are the gatekeepers of civilization and virtue.

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 01:52 PM (4pNjZ)

59 leaving my 20s, I was married, in the Army Reserve after five years of active duty, had an M.A. in a low-sucess-rate field, and was heading into a doctoral fellowship

and at the time, felt like an Underachiever

Posted by: Lt. Col. Bat Guano at February 14, 2013 01:53 PM (Dll6b)

60 425
100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18.

They also died at 60.

Posted by: Naes

So?

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 14, 2013 01:53 PM (0WLla)

61 men are controlled by what women want?

bahahahaha

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 01:53 PM (nqBYe)

62 Because John McClane is a manly man and isn't ashamed of it. McClane is Everyman, or Everyman as we would like to imagine ourselves. He always ends the movie beaten and bloody, but victorious.

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:54 PM (QupBk)

63 alex, refill of tea.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 01:54 PM (nqBYe)

64 100 years ago boys were considered adults and expected to find work between 16 and 18. And you could buy a big Hershey's bar for a nickel!

Posted by: soothsayer at February 14, 2013 01:54 PM (FC8Yl)

65 http://tinyurl.com/bku59zu this is the pyramid of greatness

Posted by: phoenixgirl, happy St. Valentine's Day at February 14, 2013 01:54 PM (GVxQo)

Posted by: toby928Â© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 05:54 PM (QupBk)

Best thing about the last Movie... was the whole 'what makes you that guy' schtick...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (lZBBB)

67 50 If you've ever told your little boy that real men aren't afraid to cry....

#ThankAFeminist

Men can't cry. Never seen it. I cried last when I 14 yrs ago and my dog dropped dead suddenly. That was 14 years ago. Now anger is the predominant emotion.

Posted by: Naes at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (r4dYV)

68 And you could buy a big Hershey's bar for a nickel! You called them Bees, right?

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (QupBk)

69 I worked with a guy who was in his mid-twenties, had a college degree and had to be shown how to use a screwdriver.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (tOkJB)

70 Men abstaining from marriage is just a little bit of going Galt. The government set up the rules so that women do the work on behalf of the government of taxing a working man to the impoverished position of a wage slave. Women can get a divorce on a whim. They can nail the man for what he's earned and will earn. All this is thanks to the rules the government created. But instead of a tax that is then redistributed by Big Daddy Government to the proud independent womyn, the rules just let the women take directly, with a little help from the courts (and if necessary, the police).

Marriage these days is for people with more money than they could spend in their lifetimes, or the extremely daring.

Posted by: shillelagh at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (hRzu2)

71 >>>Civilization is always on women there is truth in that, BUT based on myself and my male friends, we males are really stripping out anything we consider to be of less than optimal utility. And so we're cutting a lot of stuff people used to just be expected to do. This is where I disagree with the article I linked-- the Ron Swanson character represents the ne plus ultra of this, where he's pared his life down to the three things he likes, meat, guns, and sleep. If most of the male gender is doing this to one extent or another, and not bothering "putting on airs" or observing previously-required social niceties, what are women supposed to do?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 01:55 PM (LCRYB)

72 Ya I was just thinking that I am sure the Navy could have delivered a shit load of MREs to that stranded cruise line ship, well I mean if so many ships were not stuck in port because of budget cuts!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (9Bj8R)

There you crackas go again. 100 years ago I wouldn't have been able to play golf with Tiger Woods!

Adulthood? Starts at 26!

Posted by: Lord God King Zero at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (YmPwQ)

74 Actually the age at which men die has not changed very much in the past 100 years. The life expectancy has gone up almost totally because of fewer deaths while young.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (53z96)

75 snort.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (nqBYe)

76 Thank you, ette.

McClane is Everyman, or Everyman as we would like to imagine ourselves. He always ends the movie beaten and bloody, but victorious. Posted by: toby928Â© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 05:54 PM (QupBk)

Yup.

Shit, someone did a Snape Hard mashup that I forgot to bookmark that was hilarious.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Take us away. at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (Gk3SS)

77 men are controlled by what women want?

bahahahaha

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 05:53 PM (nqBYe)

You laugh but if it appears women want thugs or metrosexuals, that's what you are going to get. When women start rejecting these type of men, you may see a change.

Maybe I should have said men are controlled by what women accept.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 01:56 PM (m2CN7)

78 If most of the male gender is doing this to one extent or another, and not bothering "putting on airs" or observing previously-required social niceties, what are women supposed to do?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 05:55 PM (LCRYB)

--Well, let's see if Xena gets to him.

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 01:57 PM (4pNjZ)

79 he's pared his life down to the three things he likes, meat, guns, and sleep. I hope at least two of those are euphemisms for pussy.

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:57 PM (QupBk)

80 Quinn-Martin prductions were great. Always featured an "epilogue" scene at the end of every episode to reflect on lessons learned and to show everything was gonna be alright.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 14, 2013 01:57 PM (KwX0v)

81 "meh, why is it on women?" Because women are the ones who say no. Or they used to when they had to deal with the results of sex.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 01:58 PM (wsGWu)

82 Yay just found out my County Clerk who always struck me as eh, cool is now going to release public info of all County permit holders! She is providing a means to opt out if I request a form that isn't available yet. This is Monroe County, NYS. All morons should be keeping an eye on this crap.

Posted by: Bigby's Burnt Hands at February 14, 2013 01:58 PM (C9WKQ)

83 Men without women is all Lord-of-the-Flies and dirty socks.

Posted by: toby928© presents another finely crafted comment at February 14, 2013 01:59 PM (QupBk)

84 "what are women supposed to do?Â " Stop sleeping with hipsters, "artists", and assorted beta males.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 01:59 PM (wsGWu)

85 Women make the rules. The rule right now is that they aren't willing to make an investment of their DNA until their careers are in decline and their chances of procreation are only slightly north of zero. Males have adapted and now women don't like the adaptation. Same old, same old.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at February 14, 2013 01:59 PM (feFL6)

86 Marriage these days is for people with more money than they could spend in their lifetimes, or the extremely daring.

Posted by: shillelagh at February 14, 2013 05:55 PM (hRzu2)

My poor fraternity brother is going through that now. Inequitable is not a strong enough word to describe the financial situation he has been put in.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 02:00 PM (m2CN7)

87 Some have said that giving women the vote, ruined the country.

I say that developing the birth control for women is the culprit.

It changed the sexual and dominance balance between men and women.

Until a men's contraceptive is invented, that imbalance will continue.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 02:01 PM (qyv02)

88 Maybe I should have said men are controlled by what women accept.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 05:56 PM (m2CN7)

or men are whatever and eventually there is a woman that will aceept it?

kidding aside, I more blame fatherless households for guys that have issues with their lack of belief in their masculine virtues.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:01 PM (nqBYe)

89 on women leading the way etc: Confounding data such as abortions affecting breeding stock makes this doubtful as a premise

Posted by: Bigby's Burnt Hands at February 14, 2013 02:01 PM (C9WKQ)

90 44 >>>Wrong. Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses. meh, why is it on women? Posted by: ace at February 14, 2013 05:49 PM (LCRYB) The first 5 or so years of a child's life are spent with Mom, very much more than Dad, and this is standard over all human cultures. For boys, this changes considerably over the next several years, and this too is standard over all human cultures. Then there are the teens and 20's ... What sort of behavior, during these years, do women reward ... a young man, who works at a job and brings home money, provides shelter, food, etc., ... or some perpetual 12-15 y.o., who is still an unreliable whiner, still dependent on his parents for money, food and shelter ... This is a civilizational choice. Choose wisely.

Posted by: Arbalest at February 14, 2013 02:01 PM (7z9RL)

91 --Women are the gatekeepers of civilization and virtue. **** We are in deep doo-doo!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 02:02 PM (piMMO)

92 or men are whatever and eventually there is a woman that will aceept it?
kidding aside, I more blame fatherless households for guys that have issues with their lack of belief in their masculine virtues.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 06:01 PM (nqBYe)

--Which raises the question as to why those households are fatherless.

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 02:02 PM (4pNjZ)

93 We can hate the Betas and metros but the fact is that they're winning. Actual Men prop up society so these horn-rimmed glasses, pube-shaving, poetry-writing fags can spit on us and tell us we are responsible for all of society's ills. I'm beginning to think: why bother? Why work like suckers when 1/3 of what I earn (at least) ends up in a parasite's hands. Christ I wash there was city like Bioshock's Rapture... without the zombie monsters.

Posted by: Naes at February 14, 2013 02:02 PM (r4dYV)

94 93 --Women are the gatekeepers of civilization and virtue.

****

We are in deep doo-doo!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 06:02 PM (piMMO)

Whatever.

Posted by: Lena Dunham at February 14, 2013 02:03 PM (4pNjZ)

95 Oh, please. Marriage isn't scary. Just avoid the Women's Studies majors and anyone who talks about "household equality".

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 02:03 PM (wsGWu)

96 I say that developing the birth control for women is the culprit. It changed the sexual and dominance balance between men and women. Until a men's contraceptive is invented, that imbalance will continue. *** It used to be that you didn't have sex with anyone you weren't prepared to marry and raise children with.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 02:03 PM (piMMO)

97 logprof, i'm sure we could lsit a thousand reasons blaming either the guy or the gal.

and that's just for starters

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:04 PM (nqBYe)

98 i'll go for the standard , lack of civilty, boredom ,finances?

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:05 PM (nqBYe)

99 Women file for over 60% of the divorces.

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 02:05 PM (m2CN7)

100 >>>"Men abstaining from marriage is just a little bit of going Galt. The government set up the rules so that women do the work on behalf of the government of taxing a working man to the impoverished position of a wage slave. Women can get a divorce on a whim. They can nail the man for what he's earned and will earn. All this is thanks to the rules the government created. But instead of a tax that is then redistributed by Big Daddy Government to the proud independent womyn, the rules just let the women take directly, with a little help from the courts (and if necessary, the police)." This, pretty much. Women want the bad boy until they want to settle down, and then they look for the beta provider. Guys are waking up to this.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at February 14, 2013 02:06 PM (vU7KM)

101 2 good examples of good but different male role models: 1. Marshall Matt Dillon (James Arnes) 2. Tom Selleck as Magnum. Completely different men in attitude and demeanor. But they share in common courage, honor, and decency. Raylan Givens, on the other hand, is no Matt Dillon. And I'm still trying to figure oht why he's the "good guy" I'm supposed to root for. Maybe because Raykan is good relative to other the shit-heel characters.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 14, 2013 02:06 PM (+oin+)

102 It used to be that you didn't have sex with anyone you weren't prepared to marry and raise children with.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 06:03 PM (piMMO)

and both partners were expected to be monogamous, and work for the families ultimate good.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:07 PM (nqBYe)

103 "It used to be that you didn't have sex with anyone you weren't prepared to marry and raise children with." Ding. Dind. Ding. This is exactly the.issue, and why my simple advice to my kids will be "don't sleep with someone you wouldn't raise a child with tomorrow...because that very well might be case the next morning"

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 02:07 PM (wsGWu)

104

Our society does not value manliness. If you do you are a dinosaur. In oour society men are superfluous, never better than a woman, and many times inferior. Men are drones in the colony, performing the drudgery of a duty dance with death as they are manipulated to fulfill the dreams of others.

All null minded persons today agree with the preposition: "A woman can do anything a man can do!" Would anyone state the converse with the same conviction?

This is part and parcel of the Marxist project. Men and women are the same so why have any all-male institutions, especially in our military. Men and women are interchangeable, so why should there be any approbrium towards perversity and homosexuality? Men and women are the same, so the biological realities of motherhood are inherently unfair to women; therefore, the State should take up the slack to raise children to realize the full benefits of cradle to grave liberal totalianarianism.

Posted by: Minuteman at February 14, 2013 02:07 PM (tfXsJ)

105

Heard an old man say one time "Women rule the world- they have half the money and all the pu^%*."

Truer words were never spoken.

Posted by: weirdflunky at February 14, 2013 02:08 PM (tlhtD)

106 Who said marriage is scary?

What's scary is that marriage is the voluntary surrender of a man's rights to the fruit of his labor and the future of any offspring to a person who can take any of it at a moment's notice for any reason whatsoever and he HAS NO RECOURSE. (or very little. Now and then their are "victories" but over all once the children are out of his daily routine, a man has lost all that was of value. The possessions of monetary value being taken are just the icing on the cake of crap.)

Aided an abetted by the State.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 02:08 PM (qyv02)

107 marriage is ok if you take their shoes and keep em preggo, like god told ya

Posted by: Bigby's Burnt Hands at February 14, 2013 02:08 PM (C9WKQ)

108 Women are the gatekeepers of civilization and virtue. And the poontang. Don't forget the poontang.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2013 02:08 PM (NEIxp)

109 and both partners were expected to be monogamous, and work for the families ultimate good.

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 06:07 PM (nqBYe)

What's your point?

Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 02:08 PM (m2CN7)

110 Ron Swanson's ringtone on his phone is a gun firing.

Posted by: Ktgreat at February 14, 2013 02:09 PM (UN/ME)

111 The balanced perspective is needed. After having our lunch eaten, then regurgitated for a dog to eat right in front of us, due to our lack of engagement in culture, I am a little tepid on the whole "If you don't have a REAL career" meme that was part of my youthful upbringing. When our nation finally excises us from it's collective consciousness, our final epitaph will be written as a prolonged disinterest in shaping the culture of society through the market of ideas.

For generations we have believed that actions speak louder than words. It is simply not true on some scales. On some scales actions go beneath notice, and only the eye-popping graphic, custom theme song, and catchy meme that get noticed. Do we remember acts of heroism like Clinton Romesha or do we remember "Good...? Bad...? I'm the guy with the gun" spoken by a B rate actor in a B rate movie playing a parody of a manly man? In truth despite the gallantry of Romesha, we wouldn't remember him at all if no citation had been written.

So to the idea that actions speak louder than words, it is simply not true when actions directly affect only a few, and words can reach inspire, and often times manipulate millions. Our position, including the virtue of manliness, is compromised by not respecting the value of ideas.

So on the idea that we need a "return" to getting married, having kids and being a "responsible adult" with a known career with steady income by the time you turn 25, is certainly not a prescription of success for conservatives. As we need to be getting into the riskier fields of the idea marketplace, which is a lot easier to do while younger, when failure doesn't make a family go hungry.

So the call to manliness in my mind is taken with grain of salt.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 14, 2013 02:09 PM (0q2P7)

112 You all do realize that all the examples of MEN that have been used here are fictional characters?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 02:10 PM (qyv02)

113 39 ---"Women need to lead the way. If they really want manly, decent men, they need to hold out for them and not indulge jackasses. Try it ladies: Men will come to understand what it takes to get the girl." Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2013 05:48 PM (4pNjZ) They may hold out forever. My daughter doesn't "indulge jackasses." She wants an old-fashioned guy more or less like her dad. And then, she thinks sex is a Big Deal and has to really care about a guy (and have him care about her) before proceeding. She's a beautiful young woman but doesn't date much.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 14, 2013 02:10 PM (C8mVl)

114 105 "It used to be that you didn't have sex with anyone you weren't prepared to marry and raise children with."

Ding. Dind. Ding. This is exactly the.issue, and why my simple advice to my kids will be "don't sleep with someone you wouldn't raise a child with tomorrow...because that very well might be case the next morning"

There are 900,000 abortions (we call them "murders" where I'm from) so the old rules no longer apply. Liberals have succeeded in infantilizng the entire culture into one with no consequences. Somehow 16 ounce sodas are bad, sucking a baby's brain's out good. Genie's already out of the bottle.

Posted by: Naes at February 14, 2013 02:10 PM (r4dYV)

115 I blame "Animal House".

The retardation of maturity has been major theme in the downfall of Western Civ.

Posted by: Al at February 14, 2013 02:10 PM (V70Uh)

116 polynikes , we were discussing reasons for divorce , or ideas, that help marriages sustain themselves

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:10 PM (nqBYe)

117 Fuck Ron Swanson or Nick Offerman or whoever. Just another gun grabbing hollywood liberal asshole.

Posted by: Snackeater at February 14, 2013 02:12 PM (3+PV/)

118 ette at February 14, 2013 06:10 PM (nqBYe)

YOU might. I'm not sure about anyone else.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 02:12 PM (qyv02)

119 Yeah, no fault divorce is idiotic, but "going Galt" and refusing to marry is just as childish as wearing skinny jeans and growing an ironic mustache. It's also a horribly skewed view of a relationship. Your wife isn't stealing the fruits of your labor, you're contributing to the support of your family. There's plenty of blame to lie at the feet of women, and I do. That doesn't mean that all marriage is a death trap.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 02:13 PM (wsGWu)

120 Bitter, than perhaps before you decide to commit an actual conversation with the person
where do you want to be in 20 years.

do you have a shared goal .

maybe that is old fashioned. but what can it hurt?

Posted by: ette at February 14, 2013 02:15 PM (nqBYe)

121 101----" Women file for over 60% of the divorces." Posted by: polynikes at February 14, 2013 06:05 PM (m2CN7) Or 80% or 90% or whatever number somebody wants to throw around. But the person who files is not necessarily the person who breaks up the marriage. The woman down the road finally filed for divorce. Her husband celebrated their toddler's birthday by telling her he was "just tired" of being married. Total shock. Then he left and moved in with another woman. My own observation is that the chief instigation is about 50-50, men and women. But who knows?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 14, 2013 02:20 PM (C8mVl)

122 and then there's the guy in love with his inflatable pool toys..... http://tinyurl.com/ae3n8fz

Posted by: phoenixgirl, happy St. Valentine's Day at February 14, 2013 02:23 PM (GVxQo)

123 Dudes. I just opened my fortune cookie and received this message: http://flic.kr/p/dUUqZG

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 02:23 PM (piMMO)

124

Fuck Ron Swanson and his cunt of a wife.

Fucking leftist pieces of shit. I do love his character but I boycott the rest.

Posted by: Prescient11 at February 14, 2013 02:24 PM (tVTLU)

125 lol niedermeyer

Posted by: phoenixgirl, happy St. Valentine's Day at February 14, 2013 02:24 PM (GVxQo)

126 "Yeah, no fault divorce is idiotic, but "going Galt" and refusing to marry is just as childish as wearing skinny jeans and growing an ironic mustache."

The moochers must decry the producers who stop enabling their system of looting. There is nothing childish about a rational, risk-avoiding decision.

"It's also a horribly skewed view of a relationship. Your wife isn't stealing the fruits of your labor, you're contributing to the support of your family."

It's not "contribution" if it is done under ultimately the threat of force and by the barrel of a gun. And that's only if there ARE kids. And what are the odds he gets to see them in amounts commensurate to his financial contribution? Most of the time, this isn't about supporting a family. It's about a woman turning her disappointing first spouse into a "starter husband" and augmenting her income.

"There's plenty of blame to lie at the feet of women, and I do. That doesn't mean that all marriage is a death trap."

Not all, just about half. Not great odds. No one thinks their sweetheart will do that to them. They are wrong half the time.

Posted by: shillelagh at February 14, 2013 02:26 PM (hRzu2)

127 Fuck Ron Swanson or Nick Offerman or whoever. Just another gun grabbing hollywood liberal asshole. *** I don't watch the show but I'm beginning to wonder is this Ron guy isn't a caricature of the right.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 02:27 PM (piMMO)

128 I obviously don't know the extent or sources of your experience.

I personally have watched people go from madly in love, to seriously approaching a partnership, to having children and then to a vicious, nasty divorce.

Repeat all the cliches and marriage advice until you're blue in the face, if one party can reek havoc and personal devastation on another party for their own personal advantage and emotional vengeance without justification or proof, then their will be plenty who at some point will choose to do so.

The State has made cooperation between marriage partners an unbalanced equation and of little value. There is no reason for a female who feels put upon to exert any effort to the retention of the marriage. In fact there is plenty of reason not to.

This is particularly true after the children have reached a certain age and interestingly enough, that time frame is when the majority of divorces are instigated (by women to the tune of 60-80%).

That is an imbalance that only the blind or terminally stupid could ignore.

Talk all you want about the discussion of practicalities that should take place before a marriage is initiated (most do cover the obvious points), the fact is that people and circumstances change and there is not incentive for the female to continue a relationship she feels isn't in her best interest.

Therefore, every man has become intensely aware that HE must make a decision, without sufficient information, at the outset.

For a man it's a gamble. For a woman, it's an investment.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 02:27 PM (qyv02)

129 lol niedermeyer **** I got robbed!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 02:28 PM (piMMO)

130 Nick Offerman is pussy whipped. He made that awful anti gun ad post Sandy Hook with alot of his fellow aholes.

Posted by: Waldo Truth at February 14, 2013 02:31 PM (ZzS+r)

131

Meh, another article about how men aren't doing their part. The societal incentives have been changed (I'l looking at you feminists and liberals), so men, particularly young men, are adapting. Lamenting the change is blaming the cough, while not recognizing the disease.

Sure, it could be fixed with 1000s of men raising their computer mice above their head and declaring that they have the power (ala HeMan, for the 80s impaired). But without the impetus or incentive to do so, you can't really expect them to. In fact, if it did happen, they'd be bashed endlessly for their Evil Patriarchy Conspiracy to Deprive Womyn of their Power ... or something.

Posted by: David in Dallas at February 14, 2013 02:34 PM (LNYzO)

132 Repeat all the cliches and marriage advice until you're blue in the face, if one party can reek havoc and personal devastation on another party for their own personal advantage and emotional vengeance without justification or proof, then their will be plenty who at some point will choose to do so. The State has made cooperation between marriage partners an unbalanced equation and of little value. There is no reason for a female who feels put upon to exert any effort to the retention of the marriage. In fact there is plenty of reason not to. This times 1000. This is pretty much what happened in my marriage.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2013 02:38 PM (NEIxp)

133 I've only been married for 8 years but we have 4 kids. Have I seen women take advantage of a divorce situation? Yes. I've also seen a man cheat on his devoted wife while their child was on a ventilator in the PICU. It cuts both ways. However, marriage really isn't about romance and feelings. It's about raising a stable family. Animosity and suspicions don't help to foster that goal.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 02:51 PM (wsGWu)

134 I don't watch the show but I'm beginning to wonder is this Ron guy isn't a caricature of the right. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2013 06:27 PM (piMMO) --- Yeah, he is. And Amy Poehler's character is supposed to be a caricature of the Left. I saw the show a few times in the first season, and it wasn't too bad. I mean, if you could ignore the fact that they structured it so that Ron was technically a hypocrite sitting in a plum government job, you'd find yourself rooting for him as he threw wrenches into the works at every step. In other words, Ron showed why govt doesn't work by behaving precisely like 99% of govt workers actually do.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at February 14, 2013 03:01 PM (Y5I9o)

135 I've also seen a man cheat on his devoted wife while their child was on a ventilator in the PICU. It cuts both ways.

But did he take her house and her kids away from her and then have the State enforce a ridiculous child care payment plan on her and then refuse to let her see her kids and then moved out of state?

NO. It doesn't cut both ways. One does not equal the other.

Besides. I would bet there are more incidents like what I related than what you related. The statistics show that. It's the non normal that is reported on. The commonplace (i.e. the man getting screwed) is not reported on because it's seen as "normal" or justified.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 14, 2013 03:34 PM (qyv02)

136 I have seen it all change right before my eyes. The rise of metrosexual, feminine sissy-boys is a combination of things that I don't even feel like spending the effort to write about.

In short, it's the libs + media.

This damned annoying PC Matic commercial says it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMP4PF3DNg8

Posted by: ElKomandante at February 14, 2013 03:48 PM (fmZa4)

137 I was married for 17 years. It ended when she decided it wasn't enough for her anymore (translation: She was bored, and I didn't earn enough for her to have all the trinkets she wanted.) So she dumped me and our two kids. It's been eight years now, and I'm just now at the point where I think about dating again...and I'm still wary, because I know that, all things considered, I was lucky. I didn't have to deal with custody hearings, get soaked by child support, or watch as my kids moved halfway across the country.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at February 14, 2013 03:48 PM (5J54Q)

138 This damned annoying PC Matic commercial says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMP4PF3DNg8 Posted by: ElKomandante at February 14, 2013 07:48 PM (fmZa4) === Yeah, that one drives me nuts, too. But, to be fair, there's a later commercial where the dad tells his college-aged daughter about the product, and he isn't portrayed as a doofus.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at February 14, 2013 03:50 PM (5J54Q)

139 There's plenty of blame to lie at the feet of women, and I do. That doesn't mean that all marriage is a death trap.

No, but there sure is a whole damn lot of risk depending on where you live. Not only are the laws skewed, but women are constantly bombarded with this "empowering" bullshit and movies that romanticize cheating with the long-haired 36 year-old guitar player.

Of course not all marriage is a death trap, but the stakes are high and the risk is not insignificant.

Posted by: ElKomandante at February 14, 2013 03:53 PM (fmZa4)

140 Yeah, that one drives me nuts, too. But, to be fair, there's a later commercial where the dad tells his college-aged daughter about the product, and he isn't portrayed as a doofus.

Yep. I think they felt a little blowback from the first ad. But still, what assholes.

Posted by: ElKomandante at February 14, 2013 03:56 PM (fmZa4)

141 Oh, you're right. Men never cheat on their stay at home mom wives. That's just crazy talk! A woman whose husband leaves her for some floozy is just as screwed financially as a husband who gets "taken to the cleaners" if the man refuses to maintain his responsibility to the family he just abandoned.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2013 03:59 PM (wsGWu)

142 "But basically, all social trends since the 1950s have been toward curtailing male impulses and popularizing female ones. Discuss." Because the 1950s were an anomaly. Up until then women helped run the family business, be it farm or shop, and the only completelty home bound women were the upper middle class or wealthy. In the 50s families moved to the suburbs and most activities revolved around child rearing and other people doing the same. For some, maybe even most, women this was fine. There were a sizable amount who, especially after being active in the work force during the war, were feeling isolated and unfulfilled - this led to the 60s.

Posted by: Ann NY at February 15, 2013 04:09 AM (rBfVW)

143 He lost me the moment he quoted Kay Hymowitz. Here's the thing, folks: marriage as currently practiced in the USofA is an inherently raw deal for men. You pay a shit load money to access to some vajayjay. And may God have mercy on your soul if you put a bun in the oven. Because at that point, what's hers is hers, and what's yours is hers, too. As Socrates is supposed to have said, by all means, get married. If you find a good wife, you will be happy. If you don't, you'll become a philosopher. Otherwise, you may be at the mercy of a shrew who has recourse to government enforcement to take your money, and can make any number of false accusations against you without an repercussions, and you'll be the one being looked at very carefully. For the children, you see.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at February 15, 2013 05:20 AM (1hM1d)

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