November 18, 2013

Rorschach Test: Police Fire At Car Filled With Kids, But Only After Mother Attempts to Flee Routine Traffic Stop Multiple Times
— Ace

Firing the weapon at the car is definitely a fireable offense.

But everything up to that? It seems like the mother kept escalating things.

They were trying to give her a speeding ticket. That's all. I assume she was speeding, given her subsequent, you know, high-speed flight from police.

And she just kept driving away from the stop or trying to drive away.

I don't know how the police can be faulted for their actions before the discharge of the weapon (which, again, is a fireable offense). What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop? If you support the rule that they're supposed to just let the person flee (in order to reduce the number of potentially-deadly confrontations), you've just incentivized fleeing police.

It's a pretty riveting. The mother seems insane to me. It's never occurred to me to flee the police over a speeding ticket.

Posted by: Ace at 10:53 AM | Comments (332)
Post contains 209 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Last

Posted by: Grover's at November 18, 2013 10:54 AM (lBCzj)

2 Oooh....a video.

We'll stop beating up jwest in the preious thread.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2013 10:54 AM (oJ5Fd)

3 Next?

Posted by: Grover's at November 18, 2013 10:55 AM (lBCzj)

4 Would it be wrong to suggest that she has a sense of entitlement now that The Annointed One is Prezident? We need to get Oprah on this one.

Posted by: torabora at November 18, 2013 10:55 AM (3UruS)

5 I think the issue is here is what justifies use of deadly force by Police?

Don't think a traffic ticket qualifies.

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 10:56 AM (6Q9g2)

6 The 14-year old looked to be as big as the cop.

Posted by: --- at November 18, 2013 10:56 AM (MMC8r)

7 Those kids looked like Tea Partiers.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2013 10:57 AM (8ZskC)

8 So she gets arrested for child endangerment now? When is the Prezident going to weigh in on this? Will he have a beer with the cops?

Posted by: torabora at November 18, 2013 10:57 AM (3UruS)

9 Holy moly. That is a firing offense. No one was in direct danger at all.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at November 18, 2013 10:57 AM (09o/X)

10 >>>I think the issue is here is what justifies use of deadly force by Police? yes I don't see deadly force as being justified. Note, however, the woman's 14 year old son came out to fight with police before that. So the shooting followed an assault on a cop.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2013 10:58 AM (/FnUH)

11 trayvon?

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at November 18, 2013 10:58 AM (HEa5q)

12 She didn't listen to Chris Rock.

Posted by: --- at November 18, 2013 10:58 AM (MMC8r)

13 Drugs.

Posted by: Lauren at November 18, 2013 10:58 AM (hFL/3)

14 hahahaha @ educational road trip!

Posted by: soothsayer at November 18, 2013 10:59 AM (AoGUl)

15 There was a 13 year old playing with a toy gun in the SF Bay area....the cops put seven rounds into him 10 seconds after they exited the car. The eighth missed.

Posted by: torabora at November 18, 2013 10:59 AM (3UruS)

16 YOU ALL SEE THAT CREEPY ASSED CRACKA WITH THE GAT????  IF DAT AIN'T RACIST, I DON'TS KNOW WHAT IS!!!!

Posted by: Preezy Barrycade O'Choomer at November 18, 2013 10:59 AM (Jls4P)

17 New Mexico? That whole family is in for a ton of free enemas.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 10:59 AM (+lsX1)

18 If you defy a police instruction it will escalate until you are dead. If police defy your instruction, you must file a grievance with the dept. and have it looked at. Seems a little lopsided to me.

Posted by: UWP at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (fdXMW)

19 Okay. Mom fucked up. Repeatedly. The kid was lucky he didn't get zapped or worse. Shooting at the vehicle by the one cop? Very hard to justify.

Posted by: --- at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (MMC8r)

20 61 in a 55? Is that what he said?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (IXrOn)

21

5 I think the issue is here is what justifies use of deadly force by Police?

Don't think a traffic ticket qualifies.

 

Winner in #5 post.

 

She drove off and surrendered to the cops a little later on.  Fer gosh sakes, she's not friggin' Dillenger.  She's not gonna go on some inter state rampage.  No reason for weapon firing.  No reason to beat the c___ out of the windows either, IMO.  What the h___ did that accomplish anyway?

Posted by: odd.. at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (kduZC)

22 10 >>>I think the issue is here is what justifies use of deadly force by Police?

yes I don't see deadly force as being justified. Note, however, the woman's 14 year old son came out to fight with police before that. So the shooting followed an assault on a cop.
=====

You might argue that while being attacked by an unarmed teenager, the cop in question could have legitimately shot his assailant.   I don't think that would have been the correct response, but I think there is room for debate on that one, and it could (maybe) be justified.

But shooting at the back of the van while it was driving away?    What was the point of that shooting?  IE who was the cop in question shooting at, and why?








Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (6Q9g2)

23 Angry Black Woman Syndrome!

Posted by: Assman at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (GBl2T)

24 As regards the cop who shoots, I think the issue is what did he know at the time that he shot. Mom was nuts.  I don't know whether the cop knew there were young kids in the car and he may have suspected there was a gun.  There needs to be a lot of investigation done to determine to determine who is legally culpable and who was acting reasonably.

My prediction: Pain! And also that Reverend Al et al. will stir this up as much as possible in their pursuit of justice money and power.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:00 AM (XUKZU)

25 So....what's up with these cops in New Mexico? First it's full body cavity searches for all and now it's shooting at a car full of kids? Hmmm....and in a state that has a fairly liberal mindset. What gives?

Posted by: resist we much at November 18, 2013 11:01 AM (u0wJh)

26 She didn't listen to Chris Rock. Posted by: --- at November 18, 2013 02:58 PM (MMC8r) no kidding

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:01 AM (IXrOn)

27 As the subjects grow more lawless, the police become more authoritarian. 

Posted by: db at November 18, 2013 11:01 AM (mSFuM)

28 They were fleeing the ObamaDoesn'tCare penalty/tax .. whatever

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi's evil twin (Star Trek at November 18, 2013 11:01 AM (e8kgV)

29 What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop? Spike stips/stop strips.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2013 11:01 AM (ndIek)

30 When you can't take a load of dirty laundry on top of your minivan on an educational road trip to New Mexico without having your windows broken by police batons, then the terrorists have already won.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (8ZskC)

31 She's probably wanted for other crimes and/or is out on parole or probation.

I'll watch the video now and make a more enlightened comment in a minute.

Posted by: Dang at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (YWXTN)

32
61 in a 55?

Is that what he said?
-
I heard 71.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (XUKZU)

33 what the fuck was officer fat ass thinking?

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (HEa5q)

34 The whole Rorschach test aside: The officer who shoots at the back of the minivan while it's driving away. WHAT THE HELL was he hoping to accomplish?

Posted by: JPS at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (zhYNo)

35 Black "Thug culture" strikes again.

All she and her 14 yr old Boo saw was police, a camera and dollar signs.









Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (5ikDv)

36

Speaking of  making cops perfect,  did anyone watch Almost Human?   Was it any good?

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:02 AM (m2CN7)

37 After she pulled over again, the stupid cop shoulda told her to shut off the engine and him the keys.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 18, 2013 11:03 AM (AoGUl)

38

Horrendous judgment all around. The mother put her entire family in danger -- but the police did nothing to de-escalate the situation. There are  other things they could have done short of bashing in windows and shooting at her car.

I do wonder if the mother has outstanding warrants or some other issue that led her to try and flee the police.

Posted by: nc at November 18, 2013 11:03 AM (fkBVg)

39 Unless we learn otherwise, this looked like a decent family. The mom looked frightened, and a bit freaked out. She shouldn't have pulled away, no doubt about it, but the violence was uncalled for.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:03 AM (IXrOn)

40 Hope every single one of those cops are fired and she sues the hell out of them and the city. Speeding tickets are bullshit, just another way to confiscate peoples money, fleeing should be encouraged and if the cops don't like it they can stop handing out bullshit tickets.

Posted by: booger at November 18, 2013 11:03 AM (xRDdL)

41 What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop

You have to shoot at them to protect the kids inside the car from a dangerous driver. It's just common sense.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 11:03 AM (+lsX1)

42 New Mexico? That whole family is in for a ton of free enemas. Pro Tip: Avoid New Mexico.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (ndIek)

43 That white cop is a racist for stopping that Black Princess in the first place. s/

Posted by: 1sttofight at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (PsWwj)

44 ace, do you think you'd merely be fired or put on paid leave from the HQ for doing that?

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (KHo8t)

45 Also , shooting at a fleeing vehicle was rank stupidity.

Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (5ikDv)

46 They say people don't believe in heroes anymore. Well damn them! You and me, Max, we're gonna give them back their heroes!

Posted by: Fifi at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (kduZC)

47 but yeah, hello Drug Mules

Posted by: soothsayer at November 18, 2013 11:04 AM (AoGUl)

48 Sheboonnika and her chillum just keepin it real yo......I see savages like this everyday and they endanger themselves, the cops and anyone who is unlucky enough to be in their vicinity. Buy ammo and train hard.

Posted by: IrishEd at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (D0NZx)

49 Speaking of making cops perfect, did anyone watch Almost Human? Was it any good?

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 03:02 PM (m2CN7)


just okay for a pilot but enough meat there to make you keep watching

Posted by: The Dude at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (vJdyz)

50

Apparently the patrolman saw a pot-pipe on the front seat...or somewhere that was visible.

 

That was one of the ingredients in the escalation.

 

Still...firing at a car with minors in it, and breaking out the window, was totally unnecessary.

 

Wtf is going on with cops in NM these days?

That's where those anal-probing stories happened.

Posted by: wheatie at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (c87DZ)

51 I don't know about anybody else here, but I've scratched New Mexico from any of my travel plans.

After the body searches were heard about last week, and now this ... this "Land of Enchantment" looks like anything but

Posted by: Gov Susana Martinez at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (e8kgV)

52 >>>>As the subjects grow more lawless, the police become more authoritarian.<<<<

That works both ways actually.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (P/gm7)

53 >>I don't know whether the cop knew there were young kids in the car and he may have suspected there was a gun.
====
He damn well knew or should have known, since the car in question was pulled over by the police, and the first thing cops do in such a situation is take inventory of who is in there.

If the cops in question legitimately suspected there was a gun in play, they would have secured the gun, unloaded it, taken everyone out of the car, and cuffed them.  That's SOP.

But even assuming there was a gun in the van (which, by the way, nobody alleges that there was), what justified the cop shooting at the van?   




===
There needs to be a lot of investigation done to determine to determine who is legally culpable and who was acting reasonably.
===
Yeah, who are you going to believe, the police internal investigators or your lying eyes?

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (6Q9g2)

54 We had to shoot at the minivan to find out was was in it.

Posted by: Sgt. Muldoon Pelosi, Police Spokesperson at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (8ZskC)

55 As I've posted previously,  I could never be a cop and they should never let me be a cop because I believe that  in every car chase the cops should be able to shoot at the car and when its over they should be able to beat the crap out of the perp.     I've been prejudiced by watching the World's Wildest Police Chases. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:05 AM (m2CN7)

56 Gristle Encased Head, #41: "You have to shoot at them to protect the kids inside the car from a dangerous driver. It's just common sense." Nice one.

Posted by: JPS at November 18, 2013 11:06 AM (zhYNo)

57
After she pulled over again, the stupid cop shoulda told her to shut off the engine and him the keys.

I thought he did. She didn't comply.

Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:06 AM (5ikDv)

58 Also the shooting of the vehicle was rank stupidity. by noone I really do not know who qualifies any more? Marksmanship? @00 rounds fired and none hit the target.

Posted by: 7 Days in May at November 18, 2013 11:06 AM (j6DTo)

59 41 What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop
==

Well, lets see.

You already have a copy of their drivers license, home address, car description and license plate.

What do you think they should do?



Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:06 AM (6Q9g2)

60 What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop? If you support the rule that they're supposed to just let the person flee (in order to reduce the number of potentially-deadly confrontations), you've just incentivized fleeing police.



That is exactly what most States do.  They get the tag number and break off chase.  No matter how fast the car they can not outrun the radio and once they have the tag number, they have the culprit or at least someone who knows who the culprit is.


There is no excuse for firing at a car full of kids.  And note here that once again this was NM.  It apparently has turned into FL for insanity.

Posted by: Vic at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (FTQyq)

61 what the fuck was officer fat ass thinking? "I wonder if I look like Riggs from Lethal Weapon."

Posted by: resist we much at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (u0wJh)

62 I got pulled over on that same road, if memory serves. The cop didn't shoot at me though.

Posted by: MTF at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (F58x4)

63 He had her out of the car. I cant believe he didnt also have the keys.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (AoGUl)

64 Maybe the cop from Terminator 2, but that would be futile.  Maybe the cops thought they had a puppy in the car.  They like to use those for target practice.  There might have been one of those bobble pups in the back window.   Generally big support of police, but they've got to stop shooting people's pets.

Posted by: dirks strewn at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (kfcYC)

65 Ah, yea 71, in a 55. Bad.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:07 AM (IXrOn)

66 These came cops know that if you sustain a head injury, you put a tourniquet around the injured person's neck.

Posted by: Gov Susana Martinez at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (e8kgV)

67 If there are young kids in the car, maybe a high speed chase shouldn't be an option for a speeding infraction.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (xlX1p)

68 Hope every single one of those cops are fired and she sues the hell out of them and the city. Speeding tickets are bullshit, just another way to confiscate peoples money, fleeing should be encouraged and if the cops don't like it they can stop handing out bullshit tickets.
--

Ha as much respect fr the law as Barry O!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (XUKZU)

69 Drugs.

Warrants.

Posted by: Phinn at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (KOGmz)

70 That was standard operating procedure

Posted by: Farva at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (Ums2E)

71

Looked like the cop doing the shooting might have been going for the tires; I'm not sure he knew what had happened up until that point.

 

Regardless - you get pulled over by the cops, you stop your car and you take your ticket.  NEVER leave the scene.

 

And she didn't attempt to leave once, she tried to leave TWICE  - the second time leading police on a 5-mile chase.

 

Her son shouldn't have gotten out of the car - if she had done as the officer asked, she would have been fine, and this never would have escalated.

 

SHE is at fault for everything that happened after she pulled away the first time.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 18, 2013 11:08 AM (PZ6/M)

72 I'm staying the hell away from New Mexico.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (pj6Nr)

73 Posted by: wheatie at November 18, 2013 03:05 PM (c87DZ)

I'm no fan of drugs, but firing up a bowl shouldn't give the cops license to shoot you.

The stop was conducted very badly, and that's a big part of the problem.

The second cop to arrive should have blocked the minivan with his patrol car.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (oJ5Fd)

74

I must read more of HL Mencken.

 

Yeah, what are the protocols for deadly force when kids are involved.  Same question with that woman in DC who was shot to death.  Kid in her car too.

 

And btw, fuck Paul Ryan and the horse he rode in on.  I was rah rah for the last election like everyone here.  Posted incessantly.  I literally read every night the Clark County early returns in NV.

 

I am beginning to think we DODGED a HUGE FUCKING BULLET.  More big govt socialists, except this time they are called fucking Rs.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (tVTLU)

75 The officers acted stupidly.

Posted by: Barky O'Genius at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (8ZskC)

76 I never found out, but when the third officer (shooter) shows up, did anyone tell him there were passengers in the van (kids)?  As far as he knows, it's just the driver and the kid who assaulted the first cop.  He doesn't know there are children in the back of the van.


The cop had no idea and was shooting.


He should be reprimanded or fired for that.


Posted by: EC at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (GQ8sn)

77 A van full of kids as young as 6.

Human shields.

Posted by: Palestinian Liberation Organization at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (5ikDv)

78 As far as the events go, I think they could easily have simply followed her to the hotel and arrest her. That's eventually what they had to do anyway, after busting up her car, tasing the boy, taking three shots at a mini-van full of kids and earning a lifetime of bad karma.

Posted by: MTF at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (F58x4)

79 Saw the video yesterday, and the shooter fired off a few rounds, one of them hitting the ground because you can see a puff of dust, so I'm thinking he's either a real bad shot, or firing at the rear tire. Since you can see it on video, I'm sure the explanation will evolve to that regardless if he was shooting at the tailgate and is just a bad shot. But I half expected the lady to invoke Obama being president.

Posted by: UWP at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (fdXMW)

80 That car was full of people who really want some of that Obamacare.

Posted by: Dang at November 18, 2013 11:09 AM (YWXTN)

81 Well, first thing I noticed is the cops are racist.  They shot at the van's tires because they were black.

Posted by: Bronco Bama at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (1I4sj)

82 Apparently the patrolman saw a pot-pipe on the front seat...or somewhere that was visible.

In that case, those cops are lucky to be alive. They should put that pot pipe on a trailer and take it around to all the area high schools to serve as chilling lesson to the local youth.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (+lsX1)

83 I'm staying the hell away from New Mexico.


That ship has already sailed, Earthling.

Posted by: The Aliens at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (8ZskC)

84 I do my best trying to stay away from New Mexico

Posted by: Sen Martin Heinrich at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (e8kgV)

85 Id guess obama and the Democrats are really upset this happened...and no kids were killed.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (AoGUl)

86 Fire the shooty cop, lock the mother away.

The cop was dumb, but this fucking moron of a cunt put her own damned kids in danger driving away from a traffic stop and creating a chase. Laws still apply to you, bitch.

Posted by: YourPoopyPants at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (Y/HG5)

87 Mother of the Year?

Or just a Nobel Peace Prize?

Posted by: Dang at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (YWXTN)

88 Fleeing a traffic stop with deadly intent begets this type of treatment.

When she decided to ignore police and use her car as a weapon she puts other people in danger.

If she, God forbid,  ran over one of your family members or otherwise killed them, I suggest you would have much less empathy for her.

Thankfully, that didn't happen to anyone. But what that leaves is all this second guessing of police actions.

I frankly don't see anything that blatant. But then, I am not going to pass judgement- I wasn't there. So i'll await the investigation and facts. Thank you.

Posted by: Marcus at November 18, 2013 11:10 AM (GGCsk)

89 84 I do my best trying to stay away from New Mexico
Posted by: Sen Martin Heinrich


Me too !!

Posted by: Sen Tom Udall at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (e8kgV)

90 Beer Summit!

Posted by: Bronco Bama at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (1I4sj)

91 OK, son was not "defending" mother. He was interfering with a lawful arrest. Mother endangered kids and others through her actions. Obviously shooting at van was wrong. And I would also ask why the officer chose to smash in the passenger side window instead of the driver side window. But my sympathy is largely with the first officer who was in a very precarious situation before backup came and who did not use much force on mom imho.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (zDsvJ)

92

There were...five...kids inside the mini-van?

 

Five kids onboard?

 

That's what the guy in the video says.

I hadn't heard that before.

Posted by: wheatie at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (c87DZ)

93 That was the part that got me to go "Huh?"  You get a traffic ticket and suddenly you are racing off from the traffic stop?  As Chris Rock said, 'If you make the police come and get you they're bringing an ass-whoopin with them.'

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (hLRSq)

94 The occupants of that car deserve everything they got.

Posted by: AAA at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (hQJ+o)

95 FUCK LE.

Posted by: Obama's Worn Out Tip at November 18, 2013 11:11 AM (Cs2tJ)

96 I wonder what was in that bundle of stuff on the roof of the car, btw, and/or what else was going on that caused the mother to behave the way she did.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:12 AM (zDsvJ)

97
I agree up until the shots, I am ok with the police including the smashed window.  He is obviously trying to shoot the tires, but where the hell does he think the gas tank is, dumbass.

if one shot cause the leak and one shot creates a spark you are talking 7 dead people.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 18, 2013 11:12 AM (iGPSR)

98 What country is New Mexico?

Posted by: Bronco Bama at November 18, 2013 11:12 AM (1I4sj)

99 Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 11:12 AM (xlX1p)

100 It still gives me the creeps watching the video  of the Texas State Trooper who  pulled over a car with three hispanic males and as he was doing a search , one jumped him and  the other joined in,  took his gun and shot him.    Its used as a training video now.     

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:12 AM (m2CN7)

101 They should put the officers in the van and let the kids shoot at it.

Posted by: Lt Gov John Sanchez at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (e8kgV)

102 That car needed killin'.

Posted by: Roy at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (VndSC)

103 Why chase at all?Send a unit to the persons home and arrest them when they arrive?No incentive to do it,you get slapped with felony charges.

Posted by: steevy at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (zqvg6)

104 Just wow.

Posted by: @JohnTant at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (eytER)

105 5 I think the issue is here is what justifies use of deadly force by Police? Don't think a traffic ticket qualifies. -- To be fair, her actions were consistent with a kidnapper or some other sort of serious felon. She WAS endangering those kids by driving off. I still don't think they should have shot at the car, but it wasn't about a traffic ticket at that point.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (zDsvJ)

106 Fleeing from a stop is now a felony in most states. And the mother definitely put herself and her children at great risk by refusing to obey lawful officer demands.
 
But the cop that fired on the vehicle? He needs to be criminally indicted as well. Absolutely no justification at all for his actions.
 
Jail time and criminal records for just about everyone involved.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (wNF3N)

107 Am I allowed to invoke the spirit of Charles Darwin on everyone on both sides of that rolling Charlie Foxtrot? 'cause I'm not seeing anyone in that above the age of 13 that doesn't qualify as "too stupid to live".

Posted by: Brother Cavil, no love for the Cloud at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (naUcP)

108 And I still blame the insane militarization of our police this type of shit.  The insane war on drugs has created a thug police force.  I am surprised these cops didn't shoot a neighbor's dog that was close by as well.


Sure this woman was stupid.  But normally being stupid is not punishable by instant trial and execution by cop.

Posted by: Vic at November 18, 2013 11:13 AM (FTQyq)

109 Looked like the cop doing the shooting might have been going for the tires; I'm not sure he knew what had happened up until that point. Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 18, 2013 03:08 PM (PZ6/M) Yeah, it did look like he was aiming for the tires, on one side of the car.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (IXrOn)

110 Here in Oregon, I'd politely accept the ticket and tell the officer to have a nice day.

However, were I to somehow find myself in New Mexico, I'd never allow the Buttrape Patrol to take me alive.

Posted by: innominatus at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (tq6K2)

111 Maybe in Tennessee all traffic stops are voluntary.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (8ZskC)

112 The white cops acted stupidly. 

Posted by: Bath House Barry at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (hmMJD)

113 Bad idea:  stepping out of your vehicle to confront the police.


Posted by: EC at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (GQ8sn)

114 Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes? Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 03:12 PM (xlX1p) ---- I'm thinking they got their moneys worth on an education on what NOT to do if you get a ticket.

Posted by: UWP at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (fdXMW)

115 Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 03:12 PM (xlX1p)

During the school year.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (oJ5Fd)

116 >>61 in a 55? I heard 71

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (zDsvJ)

117 Thank God that everybody in the van was Black.

If they had been Navajo, the cops would have started out by shooting at the van.

Posted by: Oprah at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (e8kgV)

118 Everybody was wrong from what I can see. The mother shouldn't have fled; the kid shouldn't have attacked; the cops should have grabbed the keys when they had the chance; the cop shouldn't have fired on the fleeing car. The problem is that the cops could have killed children. They reacted emotionally to a frustrating situation instead of thinking it over. A cop shouldn't think like a soldier.

Posted by: joncelli at November 18, 2013 11:14 AM (RD7QR)

119 >>I don't know whether the cop knew there were young kids in the car and
he may have suspected there was a gun.
====
He damn well knew or should have known, since the car in question was pulled over by the police, and the first thing cops do in such a situation is take inventory of who is in there.
-

All I'm saying is that the shooter pulled up to a hot situation. Regardless of procedure, we don't know what he knew or what he thought he knew.  there needs to be more investigation.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (XUKZU)

120 You have to shoot at them to protect the kids inside the car from a dangerous driver. It's just common sense.

Tell me about it.

Posted by: That gal that got gunned down by DC police during the shutdown at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (hO9ad)

121 Hope every single one of those cops are fired and she sues the hell out of them and the city. Speeding tickets are bullshit, just another way to confiscate peoples money, fleeing should be encouraged and if the cops don't like it they can stop handing out bullshit tickets.

Posted by: booger at November 18, 2013 03:03 PM (xRDdL)

 

 

Yes, that certainly sounds like a wise course of action to me.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (hLRSq)

122

Posted by: Sgt. Muldoon Pelosi, Police Spokesperson at November 18, 2013 03:05 PM (8ZskC)

 

You is the funny!!

Posted by: Cheri at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (G+Wff)

123 Look, when my kids need knowledge I head to one place, New Mexico. Then Las Vegas.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (xlX1p)

124 Perhaps she was smuggling bootleg Coors from Texarkana to Atlanta.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (659DL)

125 Just remember, without video, the "report" would explain that she repeatedly tried to ram the cops with her car, necessitating the use of deadly force. We wouldn't even be having this discussion, because the cops would all work out their lies to cover for each other.

Posted by: Phelps at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (iXRJM)

126 They also tried to beat the windows out of the van for a traffic offense. there are lots of things they could have done. Given that they had her license number and her image on film, they could have approached her at her home later on, rather than firing into a van full of children.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (DmNpO)

127
I smell a strong ganja component to this arrest, or a possible screw whitey I've got my rights moment?

Posted by: Doctor Fish at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (pJF+c)

128 >>She drove off and surrendered to the cops a little later on. Wrong way through traffic in Taos, which is a town with narrow streets and lots of tourists. She endangered a lot of folks.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:15 AM (zDsvJ)

129 most cops can barely hit a stationary target if officer chunk was shooting at that minivans tires he's spends to much time on his ass watching cop shows on tv. At least he didn't kill any kids.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (HEa5q)

130 I was holding my breath the cop didn't get run over by an oncoming car as he had to go to her door more than once.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (IXrOn)

131 I just talked to Mrs. Bronco Bama.  She says no to the Beer Summit.  The runaway mom in the minivan is too hot for her taste, darn it.

Posted by: Bronco Bama at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (1I4sj)

132 Posted by: Vic at November 18, 2013 03:13 PM (FTQyq)

Exactly.

This situation is a result of years of ridiculous drug policy and the militarization of the police.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (oJ5Fd)

133 New Mexico became a state on January 6, 1912.

Now, after 100 years .. they all go insane

Posted by: Jared Loughner at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (e8kgV)

134 Ace why are you asking us morons when the Attorney General is the 2nd smartest man in the land.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (HVff2)

135 However, were I to somehow find myself in New Mexico, I'd never allow the Buttrape Patrol to take me alive.

Posted by: innominatus at November 18, 2013 03:14 PM (tq6K2)

 

Unless you were a known meth dealer who previously hid drugs up your kiester,  you probably don't have to worry about an anal raping. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (m2CN7)

136 If they had been Navajo, the cops would have started out by shooting at the van.


SOP with the Indians is to toss in a smallpox blanket and come back in a week.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (8ZskC)

137 Don't think a traffic ticket qualifies.


That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh.

Posted by: Dang at November 18, 2013 11:16 AM (YWXTN)

138 My ex-wife ran from the cops during a traffic stop. The cop chased her to our home and there he asked her WTF she was thinking. She said she thought she could not get a ticket if she got home first. You know, like hiding from a vampire in a church. In the end the cop issued no ticket and wished me luck.

Posted by: eman at November 18, 2013 11:17 AM (NVDqM)

139 @99
"Matelo!"

I've watched that one a lot. Bad stuff all the way around.

Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:17 AM (5ikDv)

140 How much you want to bet that the police report claimed she tried to run over an officer, forcing them to fire?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 18, 2013 11:17 AM (SY2Kh)

141

For all people who live near a city.  And for all people that actually know how to drive.

 

71 in a 55 = slow.

 

Christ, maybe some on here actually want to ban anal sex.  Anything under 75 is slow people. 

 

Did you know that the 55 mph limit was imposed to SAVE ENERGY IN THE FUCKING 1970s!!!!

 

Has nothing whatsoever to do with safety.  So please get off this "high crimes and misdemeanors" kick for a fucking speeding ticket that is nothing more than a revenue driver for our mandarin overlords...

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:17 AM (tVTLU)

142 #97

New Mexico is the "Land of Enchantment". . .says so right on the license plate.

Anyway, to my mind cops are OK to shoot their guns under two circumstances:  To protect THEIR lives, or to protect the lives of the public.

Don't see how shooting here meets either criteria. 

Stipulating that the cuckoo mother was endangering her kids here, AND that there was drug paraphernalia in the car, throwing bullets at her vehicle didn't exactly make anyone any safer, did it?





Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:17 AM (6Q9g2)

143 this looked like a decent family Decent families don't generally flee cops during a routine traffic stop and then assault cops. And the kid looked like a thug. I hate cops. I'll admit it. They're thugs and bullies in service of an extortive government. But I treat cops the way I do dangerous dogs. I don't make sudden movements, I don't make eye contact, and I cuss them out only after they're out of earshot. This mother put her kids in harm's way. Both she and her son assaulted a police officer first -- after driving away twice. Then, she went on another high-speed chase. I bet she or the kid has wants/warrants somewhere or something in the car that she got panicked they would find and she acted stupidly. But the cops aren't going to be careful. They are NEVER going to de-escalate. You want to protect your family from cops, it is on you. You can't trust their good nature.

Posted by: sunny-dee at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (EBoCD)

144 Fleeing a traffic stop with deadly intent begets this type of treatment.

Fleeing with deadly intent is a serious crime. It's almost as bad as Ignoring With Extreme Prejudice. Avoiding Arrest With Intent To Humiliate is another big one that doesn't get enough attention from the lamestream media.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (+lsX1)

145 The optics of children in the car makes it look bad.

But to be mean and cold hearted, the mother endangered the children by her reckless actions.  She is the one who turned a simple traffic stop into Bad Cops 4 - the NM Beatdown.

Detroit 7 News about a woman who took the police on a high-speed chase.  She was involved in an auto accident where a 7yr old boy was injured.  She fled the cops with her two little girls in the SUV.  And when finally pulled over attacked the police.  And in the back of the police car, was still freaking out.
http://youtu.be/9MUnYb1Ntnk

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (M5zr6)

146 A traffic stop is also how they caught Ted Bundy.

Posted by: Dang at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (YWXTN)

147 >>>In the end the cop issued no ticket and wished me luck.

Posted by: eman <<<

 

 

 

 

Was  your ex-wife a natural blonde?

Posted by: Roy at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (VndSC)

148 She may have been able to lead cops on a (relatively) high speed chase into Taos, but once she got there, there would have been no high speed possible.  That place is a rolling traffic jam.

Posted by: huerfano at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (bAGA/)

149 >>That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh.  [Traffic ticket]

Did they pump a couple of bullets into his car along the way?

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (6Q9g2)

150 Let me get this straight. It's October, every public school in the nation is in session. This is not a holiday weekend. So why is a Black woman from TN speeding around NM with FIVE school age children in the car? This story has a long way to go. Obviously the cop should not have fired into the car, but note that the window did not shatter, which means he was shooting at the rear tires. I smell drugs and WTF is that on the roof of the car?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (0FSuD)

151 She had Sammy Hagar on the stereo, didn't she.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 18, 2013 11:18 AM (LwqhW)

152 If you like your shot up minivan, you can keep your shot up mini van & your payments will be lower

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (HVff2)

153 I just saw the video on FNC.  I think I see the problem here.  The driver has  black democratium, therefore  she thinks she's immune to the law.

Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (66ULQ)

154 Sounds like she got caught in one of those "safety: corridors where the cops pull you over for barely going over the speed limit.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (b9K4P)

155 >>A traffic stop is also how they caught Ted Bundy.

Did the cops shoot at his car too?

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (6Q9g2)

156 eman,

How much longer did she stay your wife after that episode?



Posted by: EC at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (GQ8sn)

157 @137. eman, I don't know her, but your ex sounds dumb as a stump.

Posted by: sunny-dee at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (EBoCD)

158 Posted by: sunny-dee at November 18, 2013 03:18 PM (EBoCD)

Sadly, I can't argue with anything you say.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (oJ5Fd)

159 Fleeing with deadly intent is a serious crime. It's almost as bad as Ignoring With Extreme Prejudice. Avoiding Arrest With Intent To Humiliate is another big one that doesn't get enough attention from the lamestream media. Sadly, "Stupid With Intent To Further Stupid" doesn't seem to have made it on the books yet.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, no love for the Cloud at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (naUcP)

160 145 A traffic stop is also how they caught Ted Bundy. --- The dude from All My Children?

Posted by: Beavis at November 18, 2013 11:19 AM (/Crba)

161

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:17 PM (tVTLU

 

So cops in your area ignore people doing 71 in a 55?  

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:20 AM (m2CN7)

162 Baby momma and her son - stupid for not complying in the first place and escalating the issue. Son's lucky that the first officer didn't fire off the taser on his ass for getting all gansta and attempting a beatdown on the POPO.

As for the three officers - WTF were they thinking?  I wonder how many procedures they violated during the two stops?

Looks like the State of New Mexico is gonna be paying some money out to Miss Baby Momma of 2013 for "pain and emotional distress".

Posted by: Pimp Daddy Welfare at November 18, 2013 11:20 AM (Jls4P)

163 .. haven't I seen this movie before ??

Channel 9 has confirmed George Zimmerman has been arrested on domestic violence charges in Seminole County on Monday.

The disturbance was at a residence on Topfield Court in unincorporated Apopka, although authorities havenÂ’t said what exactly happened.

The Seminole County SheriffÂ’s Office said Zimmerman will be booked into the John E. Polk Correctional Facility.

No other details have been released.

Posted by: Trayvon Martin at November 18, 2013 11:20 AM (e8kgV)

164 Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes? Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 03:12 PM (xlX1p) Mecca for obamacare addicts on drugs. It's a kick @$$ art scene, and everyone can be an artist, now.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (IXrOn)

165 That's how they caught Timothy McVeigh. [Traffic ticket]

Did they pump a couple of bullets into his car along the way?

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 03:18 PM (6Q9g2)

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

Nope.  He ran out of gas. 

Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (66ULQ)

166

Are those decoy bags on the roof?

That reminds me, I need to get my huntin' license.

Posted by: John Kerry at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (ALOVq)

167 Taos is at the opposite end of New Mexico from Deming ( anal probe land ). 

Taos is like Austin meets Berkley.  If the cops there are Tense, man, that's whack


see many White 14 year olds charging a cop?

Posted by: stuff Sun Tzu said but didn't write down at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (omBWL)

168 Wrong way through traffic in Taos, which is a town with narrow streets and lots of tourists. She endangered a lot of folks. Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 03:15 PM (zDsvJ) I read that as "Tacos". I denounce myself.

Posted by: dIb at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (aRwtY)

169

Polynikes,

 

All damn day.  If they want to bust you, sure they can pull you out.  But it's the flow of traffic.  55 mph limit on a highway is ridiculous and a fucking crime.  Something from Jimmy Carter that should immediately be repealed.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (tVTLU)

170 rorschach test indeed. a lot of instant death penalty fans here.

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (KHo8t)

171 I don't GAS if the woman endangered her own children in this scenario. I don't GAS if she was fleeing the scene. Neither scenario justifies an officer firing into a van full of children. They are separate crimes. The police are supposed to be more collected and capable of making judgement calls when under pressure.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (DmNpO)

172 Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 03:12 PM (xlX1p)




Say my name.


Posted by: Heisenberg at November 18, 2013 11:21 AM (GQ8sn)

173 And I still blame the insane militarization of our police this type of shit. The insane war on drugs has created a thug police force. I am surprised these cops didn't shoot a neighbor's dog that was close by as well. Sure this woman was stupid. But normally being stupid is not punishable by instant trial and execution by cop. ^^this^^

Posted by: Pttdu Apiptix at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (jYxCp)

174 And to think that my wife and I are unable to have children.
Mysteries of the universe.
And shit.






Posted by: dananjcon at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (wmU4G)

175 All I'm saying is that the shooter pulled up to a hot situation. Regardless of procedure, we don't know what he knew or what he thought he knew. there needs to be more investigation.
====

So you subscribe to the "When in doubt, start firing your gun at a minivan" model of policework?

But I agree with you, I'm all for asking the police officer in question to state for the record what the f^^^he was thinking at the time.

 

Posted by: looking closely at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (6Q9g2)

176 I suppose shooting at a fleeing vehicle is easier than obtaining a search warrant for her mommy parts. Plus it was at the end of shift & dunking donuts had a sale going

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (HVff2)

177 Better that minivans full of people should die, than one person should avoid a speeding ticket. I think Ben Franklin said that.

Posted by: Not Claude Akins at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (eaocc)

178 Paultard detected.

Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (5ikDv)

179

Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes?

 

Scared Straight Program?

Posted by: John Kerry at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (ALOVq)

180 This vanload is clearly not the sharpest cutlery in the drawer. I can think of cops who'd have introduced the son to the sights and smells of the back seat of the cruiser in about ten seconds, and IMO they'd have been acting quite reasonably to do so. But gunfire...it's like the cop did it out of frustration - we've been giving you all these breaks and this is what we get in return?

Posted by: JEM at November 18, 2013 11:22 AM (o+SC1)

181 FDA approved the untested vaccine for Princeton. Man, the FDA moves fast when the Ruling Class orders them to. None of this years and years of testing and dying patients being told they can't try unapproved drugs cause it's "too risky". FDA normally is very, very slow to act. Not in this case.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (ZPrif)

182 How long before Oprah cries the cry of racists everywhere?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (DmNpO)

183 Issue 1: original responding officer attempts to tase the teen (you see he has the taser drawn). When the kid jumps back in the front seat, he holsters his taser, and starts swinging his collapsable baton like it's a sledgehammer and he's John Fucking Henry. Glass spalls all over the place but he's still swinging. Did no one teach this guy how to pop a window safely and efficiently? Seriously, he's holding his baton with both hands! Whap the glass once with the baton in your left hand and tase the subject with your right. Assuming he doesn't have a glass breaking cap on the butt of the collapsible baton, that is. And the fatass who started firing at the vehicle- what, precisely, is your plan, Officer? Even if he didn't know about the occupants of the vehicle, what did he think was going to happen if he'd hit it? Idiots all. Some serious retraining should happen, IMHO.

Posted by: Louis Farizee at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (PQR9n)

184 Once she was out of the car after fleeing the first time, she should have been in cuffs, and the cop should have used as much force as necessary to get her in those cuffs.

The cop that shot the fleeing car screwed up.  I hope he's fired.  On the other hand, I don't want this woman or her kids to get any sort of payment from the State.  Ultimately, no one was harmed.  That's mostly good luck in that scenario, but even still, without an injury (from the shooting, not for the cop putting hands on her), there's nothing to justifiably compensate.  At most, she might be owed car repairs. 

Posted by: shillelagh at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (hRzu2)

185 They also tried to beat the windows out of the van for a traffic offense.
-
It wasn't for a traffic offense.  It was because a large male attacked the cop and may have been armed.  The cop was trying to protect himself and the public.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (XUKZU)

186 In fairness flatbush joe, it's Princeton.  Our rulers must have the very best...

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (tVTLU)

187  I've been to Taos

Posted by: Sam McCloud at November 18, 2013 11:23 AM (e8kgV)

188 Five kids?  Hasn't that woman heard about abortion?

Posted by: Bronco Bama at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (1I4sj)

189 this looked like a decent family Decent families don't generally flee cops during a routine traffic stop and then assault cops. And the kid looked like a thug. I get this, and I do need to hear the facts. Either she was truly afraid of the police officer, or she was on drugs and afraid of the police officer - while being ultra paranoid. One thing that stands out, however... No dad around.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (IXrOn)

190 Oh, and lock the mother up for child endangerment, too.

Posted by: Louis Farizee at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (PQR9n)

191 Oh, hey, let's pick and choose which laws we can follow. That's so conservative!

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (zDsvJ)

192 If I'd driven five children from Tennessee to New Mexico, I'd be nutty too. After stopping her for the second time, the cops should quite clearly have blocked her car from moving with the three cops they had available. If they wanted to torture her for having put them to the troublemaker they could have taken her keys and had the van towed while giving her a lecture on the danger of leaving a traffic stop. Busting up the car, shooting at people and turning this into a felony doesn't help anybody. Maybe the cops should drive those kids back home as punishment for their bad policing.

Posted by: MTF at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (F58x4)

193 Ah, yes, I remember when we got pulled over in our Ford LTD II wood-sided station wagon back in '78, on an educational trip to NYC. I don't remember shots being fired, and I don't think I tried to jump the cops or got Tasered.

Posted by: jakeman at November 18, 2013 11:24 AM (vH4YP)

194 But normally being stupid is not punishable by instant trial and execution by cop. Yeah. If it were, we'd have a lot less stupid people.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (ndIek)

195 So why is a Black woman from TN speeding around NM with FIVE school age children in the car?

Yeah, what the hell is a black woman doing crossing state lines? Probable cause for sure.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (+lsX1)

196 Remember, only police have the requisite training and experience to carry firearms.

Posted by: @JohnTant at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (eytER)

197 Has nothing whatsoever to do with safety. So please get off this "high crimes and misdemeanors" kick for a fucking speeding ticket that is nothing more than a revenue driver for our mandarin overlords...

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:17 PM (tVTLU)

 

 

I couldn't agree more.  Those signs that read 'School Zone - 25 mph when Light Flashing'?  I ignore those - just another example of creeping fascism.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (hLRSq)

198

Oh god, I hate siding with authority.

 

Mom is guilty of a whole slew of things, and junior needs to do some time in juvie for going after the cop.

 

I'm actually okay with smashing the window.  The cop got assaulted and the perp ran back into the van and locked the door.  Was he going for a weapon?  The cop can't tell through tinted windows.

 

Opening fire though?  Firable and indictable in this situation.

Posted by: LibertarianJim at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (XMDuf)

199 Clearly the police just need more MRAPs. That's the new thing. All the SWAT teams are getting themselves some surplus MRAPs now that Obama won all the wars and ended all the terrorism. That did happen, right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (ZPrif)

200 In FL the second officer always pulls his vehicle in front of yours so you can't flee. Maybe New Mexico should try that.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (P/gm7)

201 You have three cop cars, pray tell why didn't one of the dumb SOB's pull his car in FRONT of the van? Most HP officers when they think there is a flight risk angle their car in front of the stopped car.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (0FSuD)

202

Oh my gosh, she's driving an overloaded gas hog, a greenhouse gas nightmare, shoot the gas tank,, shoot the gas tank!.....wait, I'm pretty sure that one cop on the right has been bitten by a zombie and he just wants to get into that window for some human flesh. 

Posted by: doug at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (uJ8q7)

203 So you subscribe to the "When in doubt, start firing your gun at a minivan" model of policework?
-

No, I subscribe to the get as much information as you can before you decide school.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (XUKZU)

204

Mikey - your sarcasm is hilarious.

 

But facts are hard, ain't they.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:25 AM (tVTLU)

205 It looks bad.

I'll still wait for the unedited version.

Posted by: noone, really at November 18, 2013 11:26 AM (5ikDv)

206 Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes? Protologists?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2013 11:26 AM (ndIek)

207 The mother looks like she should be charged with interstate securities fraud

Posted by: Ivan Boesky at November 18, 2013 11:26 AM (e8kgV)

208 The family is from Tennessee and was "taking an educational trip" in New Mexico?  Doesn't this seem a bit odd?  Do you take your five kids on a road trip halfway across the country in the middle of the school semester?  Methinks there is more to this story.

Posted by: Mayday at November 18, 2013 11:27 AM (eHc+1)

209 Somewhere I read about a device that shoots a homing device, with great attachment capabilities, at a fleeing vehicle. Someone is selling them for huge bucks to L.E. departments. It saves the hazard to all of a high-speed chase.
Then the officers can make the arrest where they deem it safe (as in the maternity ward of a Milwaukee hospital recently).
I am struggling to imagine how the officer involved thought discharging his weapon was justified. From the news photo, it's not clear how far away the kids were from the probable trajectory, but there are clearly to muzzles visible that are pointing at him.

Posted by: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), sucks! at November 18, 2013 11:27 AM (1/4XQ)

210

My interactions with law enforcement has been either really good with professional and polite police or really poor with small weenied assholes with a chip on their shoulder.  Growing up and driving in southern California you learn real quick not to make any sudden moves if pulled over.

Posted by: Cheri at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (G+Wff)

211

Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes?

 

-----------

 

People who want to provoke cops into doing something stupid and get a payday.....?

Posted by: @JohnTant at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (eytER)

212 I'm sure things like this never happened  any time before dashcams came on the scene. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (m2CN7)

213 I'm thinking a transition to decaf may be necessary.

Posted by: Fritz at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (TKFmG)

214 I couldn't agree more. Those signs that read 'School Zone - 25 mph when Light Flashing'? I ignore those - just another example of creeping fascism. --- I take the speed bumps in my neighborhood like I was in an episode of Starsky and Hutch. At 75 mph. Every time. For FREEDOM!

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (zDsvJ)

215 Has anyone asked this family if they are really related?  Could this be a real life We're the Millers???

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (M5zr6)

216 55 mph limit on a highway is ridiculous and a fucking crime Since IÂ’m in the process of moving from San Diego to Texas, I have to drive a bit through New Mexico. Their speed laws are ridiculous. That said, when IÂ’m in a 55 there, I donÂ’t go 71, more like 65. ThereÂ’s never enough traffic to justify going faster, and it just reminds me how awesome Texas is.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 18, 2013 11:28 AM (QF8uk)

217 Yeah, what the hell is a black woman doing crossing state lines? Probable cause for sure. Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 03:25 PM (+lsX1) Well, Taos is Injuin country. Maybe she's a Black Cherokee on an Educational mission with five truant kids? Mission, find me some pot!

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 18, 2013 11:29 AM (0FSuD)

218 I am struggling to imagine how the officer involved thought discharging his weapon was justified. From the news photo, it's not clear how far away the kids were from the probable trajectory, but there are clearly to muzzles visible that are pointing at him.


What's the number 2 rule about shooting? 


Know your target and what's behind it.



This cop was dumb and has no business carrying firearms.  Give him a billyclub made of foam rubber.

Posted by: EC at November 18, 2013 11:29 AM (GQ8sn)

219 But I'm protected by the union

Posted by: Quick Draw McGraw at November 18, 2013 11:29 AM (HVff2)

220 Mayor Rob Ford knocks over Councillorhttp://tinyurl.com/lk8dhd8

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 11:30 AM (xlX1p)

221

What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop? If you support the rule that they're supposed to just let the person flee (in order to reduce the number of potentially-deadly confrontations), you've just incentivized fleeing police.

 

The use of deadly force, as I understand it, is only justified in a situation where the officer or another person are in danger of being hurt or killed.  This would include, IMO, an individual who is known to be dangerous who is running away from police; for example, a person who's just robbed a convenience store.  

 

A speeding ticket?    No.  Not even close.  

 

The officers have their dashcam footage of the stop.  They have the license plate.    If you don't want to incentivize fleeing police, then there should be an additional penalty levied against the offender for doing that very thing.    You can pay the ticket or you can have a warrant out for your arrest for failure to comply with a traffic stop. 

 

The only time I find this difficult would be in the (increasingly frequent) situations where an officer has no qualms about administering an invasive search of someone's vehicle or person, including the horror stories we keep hearing about grossly     inappropriate cavity searches    or seizures of private property that is    perfectly legal and in no way related to criminal activity.         Such overstepping    by   LEOs of their authority needs to be censured with EXTREME prejudice.  

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 18, 2013 11:30 AM (4df7R)

222

 Somewhere I read about a device that shoots a homing device, with great attachment capabilities, at a fleeing vehicle. Someone is selling them for huge bucks to L.E. departments. It saves the hazard to all of a high-speed chase.

 

But   that  would eliminate all of the cool pit  maneuvers.    Thumbs down. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:30 AM (m2CN7)

223 The officer who fired shots was in the wrong. I don't care if he was shooting at the tires or the passenger compartment, it was wrong. I don't have a problem with the smashing of the window. The kid had assaulted the officer at that point. You don't get to go hide after that. Police seem to have a really hard time with multiple subjects, even if one is just a manling.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 18, 2013 11:30 AM (sByIH)

224

Y-Not and Mikey,

 

Are you people stupid?  Let me slowly explain it for you.  I'm typing slowly now.

 

The 55 mph speed limit on highways has NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY.

 

It was to save on gas in the 70s and federally mandated.

 

Anything else idiots, or maybe we should lower all speed limits to 25 mph.  For the children.

 

I mean seriously, WTF??  Let's make speeding 5 mph or more a felony.  Right fucking now.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:31 AM (tVTLU)

225 219 Mayor Rob Ford knocks over Councillorhttp://tinyurl.com/lk8dhd8 Time for a Nip! MNF in town!

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 18, 2013 11:31 AM (0FSuD)

226 This cop was dumb and has no business carrying firearms. Give him a billyclub made of foam rubber.

Plastic tomahawk and a rape whistle.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 18, 2013 11:31 AM (+lsX1)

227
Bitch was speedin' and texting her pimp! 

"If I'm lying, may lighting strike my mother."

Posted by: Joe Isuzu at November 18, 2013 11:32 AM (pJF+c)

228 obviously the woman had just finished shearing several sheep, with the wool clearly visible on top of the minivan.


Sheep-shearers are a quickly bunch, easily excited and quick to flee

Posted by: stuff Sun Tzu said but didn't write down at November 18, 2013 11:33 AM (omBWL)

229 I couldn't hear what was being said to the first cop, but in my experience, cops who pull vehicles over always tell people to remain in the vehicle. If you get out after they've told you to stay put, there will be a confrontation, and things can escalate out of control very quickly. It was stupid for the one back-up cop to fire at the vehicle, but the teenager who got out and tried to attack the first cop also did a very stupid thing. They were all lucky nobody got seriously hurt or killed.

Posted by: Trivial Pursuer at November 18, 2013 11:33 AM (/sohm)

230

Fuck using sidearms.  The state should issue cops RPG's.

Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 11:33 AM (66ULQ)

231 So we are all agreed. Obama voters now have an entitlement to speed when a White cop pulls them over because, Racism.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (0FSuD)

232 but the teenager who got out and tried to attack the first cop also did a very stupid thing.


Taze him or shoot him if he continues advancing.


Posted by: EC at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (GQ8sn)

233 I'm thinking a transition to decaf may be necessary. And plain doughnuts. Lay off the sugar.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (ndIek)

234 177 noone, really Yeah pro pot-anti cop unleash the Luap Nor

Posted by: sven10077 at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (9jfyN)

235

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:31 PM (tVTLU)

 

you get off calling  regular  commentors stupid?  fucking armchair warrior.  

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (m2CN7)

236 But facts are hard, ain't they.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:25 PM (tVTLU)

 

 

Yes they are.  And some speed limits are set up as speed traps.  So I don't speed there.  I also don't think that if I disagree with a law I'll just do whatever I feel like.  You want to  break the law because you disagree with it?  Fine, but get ready to take your lumps when you do.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (hLRSq)

237
The cops were remiss, they should have blown the car up.

Posted by: NBC Dateline at November 18, 2013 11:34 AM (iGPSR)

238


It was stupid for the one back-up cop to fire at the vehicle, but the teenager who got out and tried to attack the first cop also did a very stupid thing.

 

Who lets that kid get back in the van is my question.   That's flat out assaulting an officer.   Cuffs and cruiser.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/i][/u][/s][/b] at November 18, 2013 11:35 AM (4df7R)

239 Since IÂ’m in the process of moving from San Diego to Texas, I have to drive a bit through New Mexico. Their speed laws are ridiculous. That said, when IÂ’m in a 55 there, I donÂ’t go 71, more like 65. ThereÂ’s never enough traffic to justify going faster, and it just reminds me how awesome Texas is.
--

Texas IS awesome.  I live in a neighborhood literally walking distance to a highway with a 70 mph speed limit.

Posted by: Mayday at November 18, 2013 11:35 AM (eHc+1)

240 Fuck using sidearms. The state should issue cops RPG's. Nothing more complex than FUDGE. They could do real damage with a hardcover book.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, no love for the Cloud at November 18, 2013 11:36 AM (naUcP)

241 >>Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:31 PM (tVTLU) Sweetie, I'm well-aware of when (and why) 55 mph went into effect, having lived through it. What does that have to do with deciding to ignore laws just because you find them inconvenient? If you want to drive fast, drive where the speed limits are higher. There are plenty of them in the West.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:36 AM (zDsvJ)

242 Oh, hey, let's pick and choose which laws we can follow. That's so conservative!

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 03:24 PM (zDsvJ)

Laws are no more legitimate than the government that seeks to impose them, and it/their legitimacy is dependent entirely on our consent.


This is kind of basic, dude.

Posted by: Methos at November 18, 2013 11:37 AM (hO9ad)

243

Who goes to New Mexico for educational purposes?

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

Proctologists?

Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 11:37 AM (66ULQ)

244 I think she was fleeing not because of the speeding but because she had two pipes and weed in the car.

Posted by: merig00 at November 18, 2013 11:37 AM (iXEJ5)

245 Utah adds 289 miles of roads with 80 mph speed limits (link in nick)

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:37 AM (zDsvJ)

246

Nope, it's just frustrating as if I am the one being unreasonable here for saying these speed limits are arbitrary, bullshit, etc.

 

I like both of these commenters, but these ones I didn't understand.  Highway speed limits should be abolished or significantly raised.  You speed above 30 over in some states that makes you a serious criminal.

But that could be just above 80 which is simply a traveling speed.

 

I get touchy on this issue and can't believe the commenters on this of all blogs would be so in favor of such ridiculous limits.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:37 AM (tVTLU)

247 More from Detroit 7.

Old Ford Econoline van runs a red light and gets hit in the rear by a brand new Ford Escape.  The impact is so powerful it sends the rear-axle of the van flying down the road.   An 11yr old was ejected from the van because he was not wearing a seat belt and taken to the hospital.  The boy's grandmother was also taken to the hospital but died.

And then it gets weird.  The driver of the van is the boy's father. And he actually chambered a round in a gun.  Luckily he was removed without gunfire.  And other weapons were found in the van.

http://youtu.be/Oi7Ic-EIlzM

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 18, 2013 11:38 AM (M5zr6)

248 Did no one teach this guy how to pop a window safely and efficiently? Seriously, he's holding his baton with both hands! Whap the glass once with the baton in your left hand and tase the subject with your right. I don't know what your experience is with this, but I've seen a lot of people try this maneuver. The standard nightstick will not smash a window on first try. They make a special endcap for flashlights and nightsticks that is a cone skull smasher type object. That thing will pop a window no problem. A rounded stick takes several hard swings to do the same thing.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 18, 2013 11:38 AM (sByIH)

249 219 Mayor Rob Ford knocks over Councillorhttp://tinyurl.com/lk8dhd8

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 18, 2013 03:30 PM (xlX1p)


Whoa. This guy really, really needs to lay off the pipe.

Posted by: joncelli at November 18, 2013 11:38 AM (RD7QR)

250 Laws are no more legitimate than the government that seeks to impose them, and it/their legitimacy is dependent entirely on our consent. This is kind of basic, dude. Posted by: Methos at November 18, 2013 03:37 PM (hO9ad) Then when you decide to break the law, face the consequences. Dude.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:38 AM (zDsvJ)

251 Laws are no more legitimate than the government that seeks to impose them, and it/their legitimacy is dependent entirely on our consent.
This is kind of basic, dude.

Posted by: Methos at November 18, 2013 03:37 PM (hO9ad)

 

Well if the laws  are on the books and then by process, it is with  our  consent. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:38 AM (m2CN7)

252 I am not seeing any video or photos at the linked article. I assume you can identify the suspect as African American.
The facts don't add up somehow, as at least one other moron as seen. Marijuana pipes were in the minivan: had they smoke it all already? With the kids? The Rio Grande? Why, it doesn't strike me as especially scenic. Low gradient, easy to swim or wade in most places... still, they evade the NM State PD and then hazard Los Federales?
Col. Mustard in the library.

Posted by: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), sucks! at November 18, 2013 11:39 AM (1/4XQ)

253 237 MWR, Entitled are entitled....if we played the Polar Bear game in reverse we'd get more than 18 months for a homicide..... TRAYBON OR SOMETHING!

Posted by: sven10077 at November 18, 2013 11:39 AM (9jfyN)

254

And I love driving fast.  Sorry for the rhetorical insult, but your comedy routine was pissing me off!!!  lol.

 

Of course I drive slow near schools.  The highway speed limit makes us all criminals.  And for no reason.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:39 AM (tVTLU)

255 I highly encourage you freedom fighters to go 30 or 35 mph above the speed limit. Preferably after an evening of drinking and smoking. Don't forget that seat belts and headlights are also facist, so make sure to disable those.

Posted by: Y-not at November 18, 2013 11:40 AM (zDsvJ)

256 Traffic stops are only second  to  a  response to a domestic call in being the most dangerous things cops  will  do.

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:41 AM (m2CN7)

257

Poly,

 

Not really.  The tyranny of the majority is no bueno.  When we have that constitutional convention, an 80 mph on all fourlane plus highways is a must in the bill of rights.  lol.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:42 AM (tVTLU)

258 I won't excuse this, but I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. The cops have to deal with these scum-of-the-earth underclass people day in and day out with nothing ever getting any better. I can't stand being around that sort for mere moments, let alone every day for hours on end. How the cops resist the temptation to wipe them out amazes me.

Posted by: Reactionary at November 18, 2013 11:43 AM (Xs4a/)

259

Y-not,

 

Seatbelts are not fascist.  Making me a criminal for not wearing one.  In other words, putting a gun to my head and saying you must wear a seatbelt.

 

That's fascist.  Right there.  Can't smoke on your private property.  Again, fascism.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:43 AM (tVTLU)

260 The speed limit used to be set on a given stretch of highway by highway engineers taking the average of the rate of travel over it.
When radar guns came in, the insurance companies gave them away to PDs for obvious reasons.
Then Preznit Jimmeh found he could no longer reach his peanut from the pockets of his cardigan, and decided to get even with the rest of us.
Traffic cams and mailed violations.
"Security" cameras and the surveillance society.
Facial recognition software. Social media. NSA snooping.
Pretty soon, with Socialized medicine, you get "Gattaca" (1997).

Posted by: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), sucks! at November 18, 2013 11:44 AM (1/4XQ)

261  Traffic stops are only second to a response to a domestic call in being the most dangerous things cops will do.

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 03:41 PM (m2CN7)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

 

Almost all of OK's state troopers have been shot doing routine traffic stops.   Almost always, unbeknownst to the  trooper, there's drugs involved.

 

Paranoia.  It's what drugs do.

Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 11:44 AM (66ULQ)

262 I like both of these commenters, but these ones I didn't understand. Highway speed limits should be abolished or significantly raised. You speed above 30 over in some states that makes you a serious criminal.
But that could be just above 80 which is simply a traveling speed.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:37 PM (tVTLU)

 

 

Thirty over?  That is dangerous, you are putting a lot of difference out there in speed between the vehicles.  Going thirty under is just as dangerous, a lot of drivers are not prepared for that much variation in speeds and their reactions can be way off in consequence.

 

I get that you don't like speed limits and want them to be faster.  You bust them, prepare for a ticket.  Call it B.S. all you want, work to get it changed, but it is what is and if you break it prepare to pay.  Civil Disobediance isn't costless, after all.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Reprehension, Condemnation, and More at the Outrage Outlet! at November 18, 2013 11:45 AM (hLRSq)

263 that mom might of been crazy but all those black kids in the van learned first hand that the cops will try and kill you over a traffic ticket. So i don't think they're going to grow up respecting law enforcement.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at November 18, 2013 11:46 AM (HEa5q)

264 Soona, yep, cops have to be on their guard big time on traffic stops.  Tough frigging job.  But I do have a big problem with the militarization of cops.  They used to help people and could differentiate the scum from not scum, but I think they have become a bit too trigger happy and hard at times.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:47 AM (tVTLU)

265 Most cities operate with 5-10% of their annual budgets from revenue from traffic tickets, traffic tickets have nothing to do with safety, they're all about confiscation of money, they're a tax by another name. And when a city is counting on 5-10% of it's budget form traffic tickets they're going to be handing them out whether they're deserved or not.

Posted by: booger at November 18, 2013 11:47 AM (xRDdL)

266 @260 Yeah, it bears repeating.
Sworn officers I know I would trust with my life.
In fact, those are the people who will pull you from your wreck and resuscitate you when your mouth is full of blood.
They're not quite Marines (who stop bullets for civilians), but they deserve respect and the benefit of the doubt.
And a raise, in many cases.

Posted by: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), sucks! at November 18, 2013 11:48 AM (1/4XQ)

267 The facts don't add up somehow, as at least one other moron as seen. Marijuana pipes were in the minivan: had they smoke it all already? With the kids? The Rio Grande? Why, it doesn't strike me as especially scenic. Low gradient, easy to swim or wade in most places... still, they evade the NM State PD and then hazard Los Federales?
Col. Mustard in the library.
Posted by: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), sucks! at November 18, 2013 03:39 PM


It sounds as if the mother was taking them to the Rio Grande Gorge bridge, which is a few miles west of Taos.  It's over 500 feet above the river and is considered one of the most beautiful steel arch bridges in the country.

Posted by: huerfano at November 18, 2013 11:49 AM (bAGA/)

268 "Almost all of OK's state troopers have been shot doing routine traffic stops."

-----------------------

Today??? I didn't see anything on Drudge.

Posted by: irright at November 18, 2013 11:49 AM (pMGkg)

269

Mikey:

 

Interesting study was done in Sweden.  Several road studies were done.

 

One road had signs everywhere.  Draconian speed limits, curve limits, etc.

 

One road had a moderate amount of signage and a moderate speed limit.

 

One road had absolutely no signage whatsoever and no speed limit.

 

Guess which one had less accidents.  The road with nothing on it.  Researchers postulated that drivers were much more cautious because they had no gauge on which to speed or anticipate what was coming up ahead.

 

Very interesting result.  But as Y-Not stated, Utah is putting up 80 mph highways all over.  So is Texas.  But in those states you're a good citizen and in other states your a misdemeanor defendant.

 

Doesn't make much sense.  That plus the autobahn.  Socialists have been trying to end that too, bit by bit, district by district.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 11:51 AM (tVTLU)

270 They used to help people and could differentiate the scum from not scum, but I think they have become a bit too trigger happy and hard at times.

Posted by: prescient11 at November 18, 2013 03:47 PM (tVTLU)

 

Speed limits aggravate you.   This is what aggravates me.   People think that its just been recently that the incidents of bad police work have increased and it was never like this before.   Dashcams, video cameras,  outside advocate groups and agitators  have just  made it seem worse. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 11:51 AM (m2CN7)

271

There were kids in the car. Mom was crazy. Kids should not be shot at because Mom was crazy. And, marijuna pariphenia is not an excuse for shooting.

The 14 year old kid was stupid -- but he is 14 and trying (stupidly) to protect Mom. He did not pull a gun or a knife, so he did not deserve getting shot at either. Should he be charged for a juvenile offense -- yeah, he should. But those cops took a bad situation and made it much worse. They are lucky was no one was seriously injured or killed.

And yes, Mom brought it on herself -- but the cops could have de-escalated. The kids did not ask to have a crazy mom.

Posted by: nc at November 18, 2013 12:00 PM (fkBVg)

272 I don't like the people in the car, but I have had it with fascist cops. The cop assaulted the woman first. The boy came out to defend his mother and was then assaulted. The cops' sense of entitlement was wounded, so they tried to kill the family. Charge the cops with attempted murder AND sue them into debtors prison.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 12:01 PM (yUY1h)

273 And yes, Mom brought it on herself -- but the cops could have de-escalated. ...and then potentially been shot and killed. Yeah, I can't excuse their actions, but I can sure as hell see why they happened.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, no love for the Cloud at November 18, 2013 12:03 PM (naUcP)

274

The backup officer is a frackin' moron. When you have a "fleeing police" situation, you don't park your crusier way out in the far traffic lane, you park it so the vehicle can't frickin' flee again! Any half-wit should be able to see that coming a mile away! (I'm basing this totally on the screen cap that the video uses - I can't watch the video right now.)

Like most "police abuse" cases, it is primarily the fault of the person not doing what the police say. I'm not a big cheerleader for the police anymore, but this was a simple one: don't run away, don't struggle after you have run away. Those who do so... I really don't feel any pity for them, whatsoever. I feel pity for this woman's children. They need to be inprotective custody ASAP.

I wouldn't have even struggled with the woman at the second stop. I would have declared "you need to get out of the vehicle or I will remove you. If you struggle, that is why I'm issued" pull the taser "this." Then, when she again refused, I would have summarily tased her, then calmly reached in and unbuckled her and removed the keys from the vehicle. When she fell twitching out of the van, I would have cuffed her and taken her to my squad car. I would have called CPS for the kids, then mirandized my felony arrest. No more chases.

 

Posted by: GWB at November 18, 2013 12:03 PM (kEVTZ)

275 Police really need a better option for stopping vehicles. Their handguns are poor choice for many reasons.

Posted by: Jean at November 18, 2013 12:05 PM (CMlD4)

276 The problem here is that the mom was driving a car powered by nuclear fusion and could have driven until the tires wore out.  There was no chance that the cops could have just followed her until she ran out of gas or went home.  Damn that fusion.

Posted by: OCBill at November 18, 2013 12:06 PM (rFipM)

277 Well . .  I fled once because I knew we were going to jail otherwise.

But I didn't use the CAR to flee.


That'd be stupid. 

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at November 18, 2013 12:06 PM (LSDdO)

278 "What are police supposed to do if someone keeps fleeing after a traffic stop?" She fled once, then the assault by cop began. Under the circumstances, getting the hell out of there (instead of sitting and getting beaten Rodney King style) is at least understandable.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 12:06 PM (yUY1h)

279 Thirty over? That is dangerous, you are putting a lot of difference out there in speed between the vehicles. Going thirty under is just as dangerous, a lot of drivers are not prepared for that much variation in speeds and their reactions can be way off in consequence.
***
My experience is that on a posted 55 MPH road the average speed driven is 65-75 with obvious speed bands per lane (ie 75 in the left, 70-75 in the middle,  65-70 in the right)

So for someone doing the posted speed, which is nominally the limit, is already doing 20 MPH less then the flow of traffic if said driver is in the left lane.

Posted by: 18-1 at November 18, 2013 12:07 PM (P3U0f)

280 Posted by: Jean at November 18, 2013 04:05 PM (CMlD4)

We're working on that.

Posted by: TSA, NSA and FBI Team Up with Black Box Makers. at November 18, 2013 12:07 PM (LSDdO)

281 "199 In FL the second officer always pulls his vehicle in front of yours so you can't flee. Maybe New Mexico should try that."

Ding ding ding!!!  We have a winner.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 18, 2013 12:07 PM (9CBig)

282

Unfuckingforgiveable. But firing weapons at nutty women in cars with kids seems like the new police standard.

Cro-magnon cops. Morons. I can't call them fascists because they're too fucking stupid to earn the label. My entire attitude about LEOs has changed in the last five years. Both from personal experience and cultural observation.

Posted by: rrpjr at November 18, 2013 12:08 PM (Bonfl)

283 260 Traffic stops are only second to a response to a domestic call in being the most dangerous things cops will do. Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 03:41 PM (m2CN7) ----------------------------------------------------- Almost all of OK's state troopers have been shot doing routine traffic stops. Almost always, unbeknownst to the trooper, there's drugs involved. Paranoia. It's what drugs do. Posted by: Soona at November 18, 2013 03:44 PM (66ULQ) Being shot isn't the real danger in a traffic stop, it's getting hit by another car.

Posted by: Jean at November 18, 2013 12:10 PM (CMlD4)

284 I didn't see where the kid assaulted the cop, if he even so much as pushed him Robo Barney would have zapped him and mom both. He's 14 and got out of the car to argue with the cop, but I guess looking funny at Robo Barney constitutes assault nowadays. Notice that before junior gets out of the car, Robo Barney is screaming like he's in roid rage.

Robo Barney get the taser out and junior got back into the car and locked the doors. Then Robo Roscoe and Robo Enos decide to take batting practice on the windows since "them ------s are disrespectin' mah authoritah. "

At that point, mama is scared shitless and not being someone with a lot of sense in the first place and being a black woman from Memphis in the middle of the desert she goes into a blind panic. Then Robo Bubba decides to enact the little known Death Penalty for Disrespectin' Authoritah statute by following training and emptying his service weapon at anything that moves

Mama Memphis didn't exactly shine here, taking off after arguing with the cop the first time over whether to pay the fine now or head into town, and then the chase through streets at high speed

71 in a 55 in the desert? Tell me none of you have done 80 in a 55 on an open highway

I agree that the other cops should have blocked her off. It's not like they have to pay out of their own pockets if mama dents their nice shiny patrol cars

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 12:13 PM (aTXUx)

285 Let's be honest.... Stupid entitled black bitch thinks she is being picked on because she is a negro. No. Nobody cares anymore. She is an Obama voter, thus entitled to the royal treatment. All hail the welfare recipient, she rules us! Too bad the cop did not shoot her stupid ass in the head. Fuck her, i hope she dies soon from crack abuse.

Posted by: jasonj at November 18, 2013 12:14 PM (Cq0ow)

286 I don't know how the police can be faulted for their actions before the discharge of the weapon You mean like failing to box her in the second time they got her to stop, so she couldn't go any where?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at November 18, 2013 12:14 PM (1hM1d)

287 Ah, yea 71, in a 55. Bad. ====== Pretty much normal. Speed limits are almost all set irrationally low to generate ticket revenue. I've seen boulevards wide enough for Saddam Hussein to hold a parade posted at 25mph. It's a racket by corrupt politicians and their willing gestapo.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 12:14 PM (yUY1h)

288 a moving vehicle is a deadly weapon to anyone on the ground near it...

if the cop shot out the tires, etc, i don't have a problem with him shooting.  if they just generally fired up the crew compartment, then yeah, it's likely poor judgement on his part, as well as piss poor training & supervision by his department...

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 18, 2013 12:17 PM (q+fqH)

289 I live in AZ 8 miles from the NM boarder. The local saying of a fleeing motorist heading into NM is if they don't stop, they'll be shot.

Posted by: Bufalobob at November 18, 2013 12:17 PM (r8ENS)

290 272 And yes, Mom brought it on herself -- but the cops could have de-escalated.

...and then potentially been shot and killed.

Yeah, I can't excuse their actions, but I can sure as hell see why they happened. Posted by: Brother Cavil, no love for the Cloud at November 18, 2013 04:03 PM

So every citizen out there who doesn't immediately sprawl out on the ground is a potential cop assassin? It seems to be the attitude anymore with cops seeing how many people they're executing who were holding nothing but toy guns, cell phones, their wallet, or a sub sandwich

If a cop is that paranoid then maybe law enforcement isn't the right career for them.

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 12:20 PM (aTXUx)

291 71 in a 55 in the desert? Tell me none of you have done 80 in a 55 on an open highway

I agree that the other cops should have blocked her off. It's not like they have to pay out of their own pockets if mama dents their nice shiny patrol cars

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 04:13 PM


They were kind of in the mountains there south of Taos, but I have driven 80 between Taos and Tres Piedras on a fairly straight, fairly flat highway many times.  I used to drive through there about four times a year on my way to visit my parents.

Posted by: huerfano at November 18, 2013 12:20 PM (bAGA/)

292 I just deleted a super long, super detailed post. Instead I'll say this. If you are truly, honest-to-God interested in law enforcement matters, use of force stuff, etc, ignore the media, the politicians and movies. Put out feelers with your friends and relatives; I guarantee someone knows a cop or deputy. Go do a ride along with them and ask them your questions. If you don't come off like a douche, I bet you'll get frank and relatively-informed answers. Any patchouli-scented Occupier could tell you the shooting cop in that video was off the reservation. Go get an expert opinion on why (and I don't mean the "expert" on CNN who hasn't worked the street in twenty years). The most insane thing about law enforcement is how totally obsessed the public is with it as a form of entertainment, and how totally indifferent they are to it as reality. I have a lot of intelligent, non-cop friends and relatives (all of whom watch movies, TV, and news about police work), but I can count on two fingers the number of them who have ever asked me a single relevant question.

Posted by: 10 year police veteran at November 18, 2013 12:23 PM (arYBc)

293 284 Let's be honest.... Stupid entitled black bitch thinks she is being picked on because she is a negro. No. Nobody cares anymore. She is an Obama voter, thus entitled to the royal treatment. All hail the welfare recipient, she rules us! Too bad the cop did not shoot her stupid ass in the head. Fuck her, i hope she dies soon from crack abuse. Posted by: jasonj at November 18, 2013 04:14 PM

Your stormfront attitude aside, there IS different treatment of black motorists than white, I've seen it many times with my own eyes

I remember being pulled over by a Glendale CA cop who was in constant roid rage just because he was an asshole who thought screaming was thoughtful police work.

Luckily I wasn't black or Mexican or I would have been cuffed while Officer Roid Rage searched my car over an expired registration sticker

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 12:24 PM (aTXUx)

294 Given all the carrying on, I would have thought this was a typical news report from Albuquerque. Goofy shit's always happening there and we get to see it on the evening news all the time. Taos is close enough...

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 18, 2013 12:27 PM (PMGbu)

295 Any patchouli-scented Occupier could tell you the shooting cop in that video was off the reservation. Go get an expert opinion on why Posted by: 10 year police veteran why?

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 12:28 PM (KHo8t)

296 DO NOT copy and paste a vile comment into yet another comment.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 18, 2013 12:33 PM (DmNpO)

297 293 Given all the carrying on, I would have thought this was a typical news report from Albuquerque. Goofy shit's always happening there and we get to see it on the evening news all the time.

Taos is close enough... Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 18, 2013 04:27 PM

From news reports it seems that Albuquerque isn't all that vigilant with their background checks before hiring their cops.

One just got busted for child porn

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 12:33 PM (aTXUx)

298 Sorry, this woman is crazed and silly, but the police are endangering others by firing at her car.  What if they killed one of the children inside?  They have to respect innocent life even if she doesn't.  I can understand if she was a convicted killer on the loose.  This was a bloody traffic ticket.

Posted by: Cory C at November 18, 2013 12:35 PM (DEWip)

299 95:" I wonder what was in that bundle of stuff on the roof of the car,"  That was Imogene Cocha, wrapped in plastic.

Posted by: Todd Bridges, first to go bad, last to go down at November 18, 2013 12:35 PM (HWgnC)

300 207 The family is from Tennessee and was "taking an educational trip" in New Mexico? Doesn't this seem a bit odd? Do you take your five kids on a road trip halfway across the country in the middle of the school semester? Methinks there is more to this story. Posted by: Mayday at November 18, 2013 03:27 PM (eHc+1) ========================= Are all you folks kidding about it understanding the "educational" aspects to New Mexico travel? Really? I did this with my kids to visit the Navajo, to travel the old road from Taos to Santa Fe and to stay in Santa Fe. It was an outstanding trip and gave our family a chance to learn of some of the earliest European settlements in America. There are churches in some of the small villages claiming to date from the 16th century. It's a fantastic trip. And, by the way, when I got pulled over for going 75 in a 55 the cop ended up giving me a warning and led me into Taos. Incredibly congenial cop. Do people here really think the fuzz should treat citizens like serfs? This woman screwed up, badly, but busting up her car and shooting at her kids is an astounding thing to do. Those cops should hire lawyers and the so should the state patrol. Totally unnecessary force, employed without reason and at great danger to the lives of anyone in the car or on the road, or a quarter mile down the road for that matter.

Posted by: MTF at November 18, 2013 12:35 PM (F58x4)

301 Any patchouli-scented Occupier could tell you the shooting cop in that video was off the reservation. Go get an expert opinion on why Posted by: 10 year police veteran why? Google the law on use of force in New Mexico and see if it applies. If you don't think it does based on the things you see in the video, try to imagine what facts would be necessary to make it justified. The point of my post was this: find someone to talk one on one about this, not posts on the internet or chat boards or something. There are a lot of law enforcement employees out there. This shouldn't be like discussing Delta Force or something.

Posted by: 10 year police veteran at November 18, 2013 12:42 PM (arYBc)

302

Do people here really think the fuzz should treat citizens like serfs?

 

Is that you Huggie Bear?

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 12:43 PM (m2CN7)

303 55 mph limit on a highway is ridiculous and a fucking crime. Something from Jimmy Carter that should immediately be repealed. ===== The "National Speed Limit" was repealed long ago. But 55 lives on in many places because it's such a great bullshit excuse to extort money from people.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 12:47 PM (yUY1h)

304 The Double Nickel isn't one stupid law you can blame on Jimmah. That one is on Tricky Dick Nixon

Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2013 12:50 PM (aTXUx)

305 Those kids will all be in prison one day

Posted by: Shonuff at November 18, 2013 12:54 PM (gaxli)

306 He was shooting at the tires. Still wrong but it is a whole lot different from what some here think he was doing.

You know how this could have been avoided? I the chick didn't act entitled and was cooperative. She almost got herself and the kids killed.

Posted by: Shonuff at November 18, 2013 12:58 PM (gaxli)

307 "Do people here really think the fuzz should treat citizens like serfs?"

No but it sounds like you think citizens should treat cops like criminals.

Posted by: Shonuff at November 18, 2013 01:00 PM (gaxli)

308 "Well if the laws are on the books and then by process, it is with our consent." Obamacare is the law of the land.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 01:04 PM (yUY1h)

309 Well if the laws are on the books and then by process, it is with our consent."

Obamacare is the law of the land.

Posted by: whoever at November 18, 2013 05:04 PM (yUY1h)

 

Yes and we are trying to repeal it.  Until then it  is the  law.   If you want to show civil disobedience and not follow it,  then pay the fine or shoot the IRS agents for taking your money. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 01:06 PM (m2CN7)

310 It's a pretty riveting. The mother seems insane to me. It's never occurred to me to flee the police over a speeding ticket. If someone was simply speeding and they fail to pull over, is it proper to shoot at them? I'm not sure that the answer to that is an unequivocal yes. Now if the person that refused to stop had robbed a bank or shot and killed someone, that would be different.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 18, 2013 01:14 PM (vd7A8)

311 polynikes, if I am on a jury I will judge the law too as is my right.

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 01:14 PM (KHo8t)

312 it must be sweet to be a cop and just like Obama have a percentage of the population that will give you a total pass no matter what you do including breaking laws.

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 01:20 PM (KHo8t)

313 99 It still gives me the creeps watching the video of the Texas State Trooper who pulled over a car with three hispanic males and as he was doing a search , one jumped him and the other joined in, took his gun and shot him. Its used as a training video now. It still gives me the creeps watching that TX state trooper give those two ladies full cavity searches when they were pulled over for a traffic infraction. I promise, I don't see cooperation with cops as a moral imperative any longer.

Posted by: Miss Scarlett at November 18, 2013 01:28 PM (uDAyD)

314 I used to respect police, but unfortunately have heard and experienced enough so that I no longer do.  I do think that there are some well-meaning officers.  However, their credibility has been destroyed... it is too bad that many, if not most, officers have the intellect, good-will, and common sense that matches criminals'. 

Again, it is unfortunate. Whereas they once were looked up to because they really did serve and protect, now they are mostly revenue collectors who are no where to be found when really needed (you're on your own!).  Whereas they once were calming agents that could diffuse tense situations, now they intensify. 

It is not their sole fault.  Uninformed city councils dictate revenue needs and rules that do not help.  Also, why would good ones stick around when they are compensated poorly.  Plus, I believe the overall character of the country has diminished, and the police are a microcosm of that.  We can't expect servants to continue out of sense of duty when so few people in any profession do.

So, I do not hold police to a higher expectation than I would anyone else, but they are the first line in our increasingly "big brother" society. So, yeah, they kind of suck these days, and, collectively, I wish them the worst.  Society would be better off with many many fewer police officers, and at this point, I would trade what we have now for none.

All this from someone who is well known amongst friends for being a goody-good puritan, whose worst offense is a driving citation.  (But, in full disclosure, I have received more than one.)

Posted by: galled at November 18, 2013 01:34 PM (shp1e)

315

 polynikes, if I am on a jury I will judge the law too as is my right.

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 05:14 PM (KHo8t)

 

No you will be ignoring the judge who will instruct you in the law.  If you decide to ignore it ,   that would be a cause for a mistrial if you state that you purposedly ignored the judge's instructions.   

 

Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 01:44 PM (m2CN7)

316 Gov. Martinez for President in 2016!

Posted by: New Mexico Police Union at November 18, 2013 01:45 PM (nbGZj)

317 314 polynikes, if I am on a jury I will judge the law too as is my right. Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 05:14 PM (KHo8t) No you will be ignoring the judge who will instruct you in the law. If you decide to ignore it , that would be a cause for a mistrial if you state that you purposedly ignored the judge's instructions. Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2013 05:44 PM (m2CN7) I don't think so. I think that is just jury nullification and it's common and moral. There are times the law is an ass. Since we elect asses at the ballot box (or they steal the election with their own trunk boxes), we sometimes have to defend our rights in the jury box.

Posted by: Miss Scarlett at November 18, 2013 01:59 PM (uDAyD)

318 polynikes feel free to do as you're told, and I'll do what I think is right, which is my right.

Posted by: X at November 18, 2013 02:06 PM (KHo8t)

319 New Mexico law enforcement is pretty much getting it's a$$ kicked in the news lately.

Posted by: socalcon at November 18, 2013 02:09 PM (vHlQ5)

320 306 "Do people here really think the fuzz should treat citizens like serfs?" No but it sounds like you think citizens should treat cops like criminals. Posted by: Shonuff at November 18, 2013 05:00 PM (gaxli) ========================== What a dipshit thing to say, that doesn't even make sense in the context of what I said, or at all.

Posted by: MTF at November 18, 2013 02:10 PM (F58x4)

321 Probably been said, but it looks like he was trying to shoot out her rear tire. Also, did he know the car had kids in it? Reason I ask is it appears he walked up after they were in the van. 

Not excusing anything, just askin' . . .

Posted by: TRO at November 18, 2013 02:43 PM (jHEiO)

322 Mr Tire Shooter is a dangerous moron, but the mom crossed into oncoming traffic in a high speed chase. Hard to pick a winner here.

Posted by: TexasDan at November 18, 2013 02:43 PM (OKrkW)

323 the kid should have been blown away when he attacked the cop. Period. And X, a jury doesn't judge the law. You seem like a mouthbreathing redneck. Bet you use the N word frequently

Posted by: Earl Turner at November 18, 2013 02:50 PM (VrVBw)

324 I don't know how the police can be faulted for their actions before the discharge of the weapon ========== The cop bashing in the window with the baton was both useless and unnecessary and it escalated the situation. I'd say that idiot is at great fault.

Posted by: Jay in PA at November 18, 2013 04:18 PM (WSgyE)

325 She may be technically "insane". That is no reason to open fire. The same thing happened recently in DC. Is this what they are trained to do? What ever happened to spike strips and choke holds? Creeping police state.

Posted by: Cluebat at November 18, 2013 04:39 PM (Nz3Yx)

326 My brother was a sheriff's deputy for 21 years and worked a shithole neighborhood gangster beat in SoCal. He never once pulled his billy club, beat suspects or fired his weapon at fleeing vehicles. That's not what he claimed to be true, that's what his coworkers told me.

Cops lived by the credo: to Protect and Serve but that's changed to: I go hope alive, no matter the cost. Hey, that's great for soldiers shooting Tabliban in the face with a machine gun, it's not so good for you and me.

We cannot allow cops to execute civilians on the basis of minor traffic violations - including - fleeing the scene of a minor traffic.

As to the son and his questionable behavior? He's probably aware that his mom is nuts and did the only thing a young lad would do, protect momma bear. Not saying he shouldn't be in trouble for what he did, just noting how mammals react in these sort of circumstances.


Posted by: 13times at November 18, 2013 06:09 PM (fGPLK)

327 Chris Rock lays it down: "How Not to Get Your Ass Kicked by the PO-lice!"

http://tinyurl.com/o9aw489

Posted by: Beverly at November 18, 2013 10:04 PM (2l4TD)

328 Aren't the police supposed to be the level-headed ones in a world of chaos? Is it really worth accidentally killing a kid over a speeding violation? They didn't even shot O.J. for gosh sakes! Why not follow her until she runs out of gas, put of a road block or block her in?

The police should be in prison for attempted murder. If you want to talk about deterrents for bad behavior, let's see them mingle with the other prisoners in the yard, and then check how often police open-fire on citizens.

Posted by: Cornryn at November 19, 2013 03:30 AM (TV6FE)

329 More crazy behavior by black people.  Remember, blacks consider themselves above the law.  They don't have to stop for the police.  White cops are racist, etc.  Note it was a black cop who fired.

Posted by: Federale at November 19, 2013 07:30 AM (aO1W9)

330 Test test

Posted by: Policy channel at November 21, 2013 03:51 AM (F58x4)

331 test

Posted by: Police channel at November 21, 2013 03:52 AM (F58x4)

332 test

Posted by: Police channel at November 21, 2013 03:52 AM (F58x4)

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