1 Rove(spit)

2 Karl Rove is a sideshow. And one I might add that the dems are glad to sit back and watch. Let's move on

3 Speaking of someone trying to stay relevant........

4 I have an open mind too.

5 Jumbo Shrimp. Military Intelligence. Conservative Victory...   SIGH!

6 So, the garbage was extra-sticky and slightly sweet today?

7 Lets remember what Karl Rove's main stratagem is: The evangelicals and professional, working middle class have no choice but to vote for republicans. So lets run republicans that are, doctrinally, just to the left of center. It's possible that he could achieve a republican majority. But that republican majority will function like democrats. That's the result of Karl Rove politics.

8 Abandon?  They are the abused wives that won't go away.  We desperately NEED to drive these big spending liberals from the party in order to bring the hard core fiscal conservatives back home.

9 Let's elect more fierce leaders like Mitch (Wooden Chin) McConnell. 
Fucking tool. 

10 The story of America in a Baroke Owebama nation.......

http://scoamf.us/6K

Chickenfoot

11 *looks around*



No coed tits?



Fuck it. Going back to the other thread.

12 If you consider George W Bush a conservative , then Karl Rove is the man for you.

13 Karl--Yes, let's drive out the big spending liberals and replace them with big speding Republicans-like George Fucking Bush. 

14 I've stopped paying attention to what Rove has to say.  Rove claimed he was heavily involved with the Reagan campaign in TX in 1980.  Michael Reagan says he's full of shit.

15 #11 Save the Coed Tits

16 This is interesting though. If you want to win elections, Karl Rove is your man. If you want to save the country, Forget him.

17 Any " Protest Candidate" whose election would result in the removal an establishment politician - the go along-to-get-along types who have gotten us into the mess we are in today - is BY DEFINITION a "Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change."

Lather, rinse, repeat.

18 Eh.  At  this  point,  all  they're  struggling  over  is  who  gets  to  steer  the  Titanic  those  last  fifteen  feet  before  it  plunges  down  into  the  icy  death  grip  of  the  Atlantic.

19 I've stopped paying attention to what Rove has to say. Rove claimed he was heavily involved with the Reagan campaign in TX in 1980. Michael Reagan says he's full of shit.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at February 13, 2013 03:53 PM (kqqGm)

Someone involved with politics lies out his ass?  SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!!

20 So, which stalwart establishment republican who WON AN ELECTION (which is over so very fucking important) has done a single fucking thing that has helped people who work for a fucking living?

21 Fuck Rove. He's not my countryman, because he puts his personal swish & power above the clarity of the Constitution and the good of the country. Rove, like every other motherfucking leftist, can go directly to hell.

22 nuance

23 I agree with not wanting to win so completely that we alienate half the party but, really, isn't the party divided already? What we forget is to focus on those things about which we tend to agree: cutting the deficit, reforming entitlements, the 2nd amendment...

24 >>>ny " Protest Candidate" whose election would result in the removal an establishment politician - the go along-to-get-along types who have gotten us into the mess we are in today - is BY DEFINITION a "Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change." yes we're purging ourselves to fitness, rather like an anorexic

25 OT:  Pope to canonize Gabby Giffords before he steps down.  Choirs singing. 

26 Does the Tea Party actually field candidates and hand select them? Did the Akins and Angles losers just decide to run on their own, and the Tea Party hastily get behind them bc they said the right things and sounded good at first?

27

Ahem, I'm reposting my hot young blonde post below.  Such an awesome picture and a lift for guys getting older.

 

Anyway, who the fuck says that Rove is such a genius.  He had GWB campaigning in fucking CA instead of focusing on real battlegrounds and almost lost the fucking election.  His addition to the equation was microtargeting.  And that's pretty much it.

 

If GOP was smart, they would be moving much more to shoring up everyone to get them on the same page, reaching out (as they have been) to latinos, and go hard after the libertarian vote/small government/individual freedom.  That's where 5-6% of an easy to get vote is.

 

 

----------------------

 

Ace,

I am a firm believer in the nation of islam rule. Divide your age by half, add 3 or 4 years, and that is who you can bang.

I don't think this guy qualifies, but who knows. And who in the fuck in TN elected this idiot.

28 I'll repeat my position on this, I have no problem with Rove's group trying to get its candidates elected. I also have no problem with the Tea Party trying to get its candidates elected. Tell you what, I hereby offer my services as a media trainer to the candidate for both sides. I am reasonably confident that once a candidate passes the final examination given by Miss Alex's School Of Manners, Charm And Shutting My Fucking Pie Hole And Not Saying Massively Stupid Shit Outside My Own Head, that candidate will be well suited to represent the GOP.

29 Honestly, right or left, who gives a flying fuck WHAT Chris Matthews says?  Seriously......

30 It's not water, ace, it's hydroxyl acid. Did you know that hydroxyl acid has a higher pH than any other known acid? Do you know it's used in fracking? It's a greenhouse gas. It's found in almost all industrial waste.

31 At one point I had envisioned the two parts of the GOP -- the establishment and the Tea Party -- finding common ground and working together somehow. I guess that was utopian. It's more important to control the party than defeat the DemonRats, apparently.

32 O'Donell's suicide run sure did move the Republicans to the right.  Yep, that sure did happen.  The non-Establishments are perfect in every way.

33

Four dead Americans in Libya? Ehhh, who cares. You see Rubio take a sip of water in the middle of that rebuttal...what a fuckin clown

34 If Rove really wanted to make a difference, he'd start a candidate boot camp. Regardless of ideology, the candidates learn how to sell their ideas and present them in the right way.

35
Crap I wish I could get elected to congress, I'd love to have first hand knowledge of that pit of corruption.  Funny thing is I could never get elected, because I haven't lived a perfect life and I am not a democrat.

But going to the floor and calling pelosi an unmitigated bitch would be worth the slap on the wrist.  And another reason why I couldn't get elected.

36 Lets remember why we're having this fight. The Republican Party is a club. The reason for the club's existence is to win elections and keep those seats. The Republican Party does not exist to benefit America or Americans. It does not exist to lower taxes. It does not exist to protect the constitution. It exists to win elections. In this sense, Rove is perfect. He doesn't care whether you're a goddamned commie. He prefers it, actually. And because our system provides a big advantage to incumbent politicians, he prefers to work for them. So the perfect candidate for rove is a liberal incumbent republican. That makes Rove the most money. Which is what you would expect Rove to want-- to make the most money. And there's no shame in that. Rubio's failure to reject Rove's group speaks either to Rubio's inner lefty coming out, or his insecurity in holding on to that office of his. Either way, it says more about Rubio than it does about Rove.

37 We desperately NEED to drive these big spending liberals from the party in order to bring the hard core fiscal conservatives back home.

So, there were enough hard core fiscal conservatives who stayed home for the last two presidential elections, that had they voted, we would have been spared Obama?  Really?  Did they stay home this time because the damage O was doing just wasn't worth showing up to stop?  You dream, general.  Whether you like it or not, we need the mushy middle. 

But since this is the roughly millionth time we've had this argument, I don't suppose there's any reason for me to continue to make the point.

38 All I care about in the short term is the GOP making a concerted effort to win the Senate. I don't think that means a one-size-fits-all approach. Now in Utah, we SHOULD HAVE dumped Hatch. The challenger was perfectly good and there was ZERO risk of losing that seat to a Democrat. So I was pissed when many (iirc, most) of the punditry and leadership types backed Hatch... particularly given the laughable reasoning that he would be the senior member of Finance (when we won the Senate... how'd that work out?!). But in other states we may have to put up with a Scott Brown type just to get the numbers to get the majority. I'd certainly rather that than not running anyone. I still have not seen an analysis of the last election that addresses if the individual states' GOP orgs were in place but not used properly by Romney or if they were in as much disarray as Team Romney was. Politics are local. The solution that is right for Utah or Texas is not the one that is right in Massachusetts or Maine.

39

O'Donell's suicide run sure did move the Republicans to the right. Yep, that sure did happen. The non-Establishments are perfect in every way.

 

How well did that Moderate Mitt guy work out for you?

40

El Moderada! Yi! Yi! Yi!

41 Dunno, we tried the east coast 'moderate' R plan how many times?  What was the results?  Even when we 'win' we join hands with the Ds and in a 'bi-partisan' fashion do exactly what the Progs want, if perhaps a little slower.

Goldwater - Conservative.  Lost but generally credited with setting up Reagan's win.

Nixon - RINO.  'Won' but gave us the EPA, etc.

Ford. - RINO loser.

Reagan.  Nuf said.  But all he managed to do was slow the rate of growth of big govt.

Bush I - We read his lying lips and didn't want another round.

Dole.  RINO loser.

Bush II - Sorta conservative, except when he wasn't.  Sold as a 'compasionate con' though.

McCain - RINO Loser

Romney - RINO Loser.

Same pattern goes downticket.  'Winning' with a RINO is often almost as bad as losing with a conservative.  Except the conservatives have a better win/loss record.  Sooner or later we need to look at the numbers and reality, it is telling us something.

42 Unemployment over 8 %...? Ehhh, racism, yeah racism. But Rubio sweating and drinking water during a speech. We'll ride this horse to death.

43

I'd be all for a "vetting" of candidates.  I mean what the fuck is with the rape shit.

 

Demorats are not that smart.  It should be easy to defeat them in every way.  But these fucking candidates are not educated in how to do so, nor to articulate positions to fit the soundbyte media who are all out to destroy our candidates.

 

WE MUST ADAPT AND TAKE THE FIGHT TO THE FIELD ON WHICH WE FIND OURSELVES.

 

Perhaps a boot camp, where candidates can be vetted and educated and shown some fucking media savvy as to mistakes made in the past by well intentioned individuals.  With conservatives and "establishment" types overseeing it.  No coercion, but attendance is mandatory if you want monetary support....

44 Rubio is going to go down in political history for his uncanny impersonation of Al Franken impersonating Lyndon LaRouche.

I'm entirely serious.

Back in the late '80s, LaRouche was running for President, and Franken did a skit on SNL in which he played LaRouche delivering a longwinded policy address that became steadily more unhinged as it went on.

I loathe Franken, but it has to be admitted that he precisely nailed certain LaRouche mannerisms, such as reaching for a glass of water off camera, and drinking it, and putting it back, while not deviating his monomaniacal stare into the lens by even one millimeter.

What does Rubio do in his big SOTU rebuttal last night? The same strange gig of staring steadily at the camera while reaching for water, as though afraid to avert his gaze. He looked incredibly weird. As incredibly weird as Al Franken doing an impression of Lyndon LaRouche, which was itself incredibly weird. Incredibly weird squared.

When will the GOP get some media coaches and some skilled handlers to ensure that these kinds of amateurish failures stop happening? A little bit of professional polish in the presentation goes a long way.

45 Obama's SOTU clearly wasn't very good if all that anyone can seem to talk about is how some dude took a drink of water afterward.

46 Obamacare causing premiums to sky rocket? A non-story. But you know what's a story....that Rubio guy taking a sip of bottled water. What a fool.

47

Ace,  I  don't  disagree  with  your  general  point.   I   think  this  battle  is  good   and  I welcome  it.   I  think  it  will  make the  base  get  better  at picking  candidates,  but it is  good  that  the base doesn't  just  settle  for candidates  either.

 

That  being  said,  you  stated  "but I'm losing confidence in the Tea Party's ability to distinguish Protest Candidates from Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change,"  what  examples   exist  that  give  you  less confidence  in the  tea  party's   ability?  There  are  many  from  2010,  but  that  was  two  elections  ago, and  basically  the  tea  party's  first  go  at it.   What  examples  exist  from   2012?   I  don't  think  it  fair  to  say  the  the  tea  party   overreached  on  Mourdock.   At  the time, he  looked  like a  good  choice.

 

I'm  just  curious.  There  may  be  many  that I'm  not thinking  of.

 

 

48 And did you hear? Rubio drinks water. Holy mackerel, there's your headline.









Squid fuck in water. No thank you.

49 Drone strikes killing American citizens? He's the Commander-in-Chief. You see that Rubio clown take a sip of water....wow, and he thinks he can be President

50

John Morris,

 

I could not agree fucking more.  For national elections, it's as much about the CANDIDATE as the message.  Reagan was middle class, humble beginnings to stardom.

 

No more richie rich fucking RINOs.  FUCKING PERIOD.  And no old men codgers.

 

Amen.

51 It's possible that he could achieve a republican majority. But that republican majority will function like democrats.

Todays House Republicans.

52 Sure, I want the heat and fire of the Tea Party, but I'd also like that tempered by some cold numbers-based decisionmaking. Are you suggesting that is what Rove has been providing? It has not been working out so well.

53 Rubio's failure to reject Rove's group speaks either to Rubio's inner lefty coming out, or his insecurity in holding on to that office of his. Either way, it says more about Rubio than it does about Rove. .... There are those who speak of Rubio delivering Florida in 2016 but, frankly, he acts a little like a man who isn't secure in holding his own.

54 yes we're purging ourselves to fitness, rather like an anorexic Straw man, ace. What's the point of being healthy when healthy means "we'll screw you slightly less than Democrats on most days, and only slightly more on others"? Kill it. A smart guy on the Internet said we have 8-16 years of wandering in the wilderness anyway. Let's make sure the RINOs are extinct on the other side.

55 I don't trust The Establishment to actually do anything, but I'm losing confidence in the Tea Party's ability to distinguish Protest Candidates from Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change. --- I trust The Establishment to completely fuck things up. The Tea Party has probably gotten as many things right as things they've screwed up, which puts them ahead of the curve compared to the RNC, RNSC, et all.

56

I'd prefer the Tea Party to be a negative incentive, rather than the source  for picking candidates.

 

In other words, if you are running and the Tea Party doesn't like you, I'd like you to be sweating bullets, and to be thinking of ways to win their favor. 

 

So yeah, I don't mind a few idiots having been Tea Partied, only to have some doofus who doesn't really have a chance to win being nominated.  In the long run it's better, even if we lose some.  It's where we are now, I think. 

57 It's a greenhouse gas.
It's found in almost all industrial waste.

It supports the growth of dangerous micro-organisms.

58

And off we go!  Down the same old road.   I'm wondering if this tired old  70's Ford LTD  can make it.   Hate to give it up.  It's taken us down this road so many times  before.  

59 I wonder if O'Bumbles could pass one of his own Universal Background Checks?

60 :::yes we're purging ourselves to fitness, rather like an anorexic/:: You have to empty the stomach to find out what's in it.

61 &&& bite me &&& Thanks to Alex for this wonderfulchrome extension.

62

Yes  it  is  superficial,  but  optics  are  so important  with  respect  to politics, and  Rubio  failed  at  that  last  night.   His  optics  rendered  the content  of his  speech  immaterial.   Frankly,  I'm  not sure why  he  agreed  to do the  rebuttal.   It  is  such  a  difficult  thing  to do  because  the  setting  sucks.   It  has  high  risks  for  very   little  reward.   Ultimately,  I don't  think  it  will  hurt  him  too  much,  but  it  certainly  didn't  help  him.

63 Jose Antonio Vargas, an illegal immigrant and former reporter, scolded a congressional panel on Wednesday, saying that he should not be called illegal, and saying it is an insult to his family who brought him here. “When you inaccurately call me illegal, you not only dehumanize me, you’re offending them,” he said. “No human being is illegal.” 'No human being is illegal"--No? Maybe not, but they do illegal things, so go fuck yourself and stop trying to change English just to suite your political purposes asshole.

64 Heh, just heard Czaben's take on Dorner. It was good.

65 45 Obama's SOTU clearly wasn't very good if all that anyone can seem to talk about is how some dude took a drink of water afterward. "The Most Gifted Rhetorician in American History" has yet to deliver a memorable SOTU. Compare and contrast with Bush 43, who gave several.

66 “When you inaccurately call me illegal, you not only dehumanize me, you’re offending them,” he said. “No human being is illegal.” --- No matter how you slice it, you're a goddamn criminal. That sound better to you, asshole?

67
If you find actual conservatives on the ballot, you should vote for them, otherwise they are all really in the big govt party.

68 “No human being is illegal.”

How about "lifelong criminal", fuckhead? How's that grab you?

69 Thanks to Alex for this wonderfulchrome extension. Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at February 13, 2013 04:05 PM (1sQYD) Glad you like it! I look forward to adding more features, and maybe even one day helping HeatherRadish realize her Moron Dream. But, until then: &!

70 "No more richie rich fucking RINOs. FUCKING PERIOD."

Here in Commiefornia, in the 2010 election cycle, we had multiple wipeouts with wealthy former chief executives running on the GOP ticket: Fiorina and Whitman.

The local Democrats played the class warfare card about "heartless CEOs" and, hey presto, whaddaya know, that card still works like a charm with average-Joe low information voters. Fiorina and Whitman were destroyed at the polls.

Did the national GOP pay attention to this? No, and they went ahead and nominated a guy who shared the same fatal vulnerability, and then were surprised when the national Democrats pulled out the same card and played it again successfully.

Not only doubling down on failure. Tripling and quadrupling down on failure.

71 The noted Race Detective Charles Icarus Johnson is also strangely silent on Tingles calling Rubio "primitive."

72 No matter how you slice it, you're a goddamn criminal. That sound better to you, asshole? .... 'Criminal Immigrant' it is then

73 so, it's like that, then?

Keep calm
and
ampersand on.....

74

OT: Pope to canonize Gabby Giffords before he steps down. Choirs singing.

 

 

You have got to be kidding.

75 @37 pep

I thought that Obama got reelected because the conservatives and Socons stayed home.

Now you are saying that there weren't enough of them that stayed home to cause an issue.


so which is it?

76 OT, but not really.../

As it stands, my order of voting preference for nominee for prez...

Carson
Walker
Martinez
Rubio
Nikki Haley
R. Paul
Jeb Bush
Christie

77 I'm getting an exorbitant lag time loading due to some site called damnlol.com here.

Anyone else getting that?

78 75 OT: Pope to canonize Gabby Giffords before he steps down. Choirs singing. >>You have got to be kidding. Yes. She's not dead, for one thing.

79 Speaking of RINOs, this is who the MA GOP establishment is touting for Kerry's Senate seat: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/us_politics/2013/02/former_seal_joins_race_for_senate I appreciate his service to country, but the dude's a Democrat.

80 @philipaklein RT @bdomenech: RT @WAOW: MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Republican Gov. Walker rejects voluntary Medicaid expansion for Wisconsin under federal law.

81 gee.  Thats kind of racist of Mr. Mathews

82

Karl Rove's an intelligent man. As an intelligent man, he knew the circumstances of Akin's primary nomination in Missouri, where McCaskill's people used an old Chicago trick by encouraging Democratic crossover voting in the primaries to get Akin, far and away the weakest candidate in the field, nominated, thus increasing her chances of reelection. The Tea Party was not to blame.

 

Rove also knew that now former Senator Dick Lugar--my Senator--had become a Democrat in all but name. One look at his voting record and committee and confirmation hearing remarks would make Lugar's conversion clear to anyone. Whenever Democrats talked about Republicans they could work with, Lugar was invariably the Republican mentioned. Yes, Mourdock was inexperienced at national-level politics. Yes, Mourdock is completely devoid of anythng remotely resembling charisma, but he is a genuine Republican conservative. Besides, Dick Lugar hasn't lived in Indiana for over 20 years. The people of Indiana deserve a Senator who is at least a resident of our state. Whoever he was representing in the Senate, it wasn't us. Let Virginia have him.

 

My point? Rove is acting in bad faith. He's more or less identified the Tea Party as the party responsible for the GOP's fortunes, which also allows him to  conveniently pass the blame from the Country Club Republican Establishment to those he considers hicks comprising the conservative base.

 

Rove views us as a greater threat than the socialist weasels now occupying the White House. He's a divisive, malicious bastard whose greasy, porcine mug has become the face of the Republican Party. Given Rove's animosity to the base, there will be no coming together under one big happy tent while he holds a leadership position, de facto or otherwise, in the GOP.

83

Serious  Cat   -   that  is  much  better  than  the  list  we  had  last  go  round.

84 No one likes the name Tea Party?  Then call  it the Freedom Party.  There.  Fixed.

85 And anyway, why rag on the Tea Party for a spotty record of picking candidates?  At least they are trying, don't see anyone else doing that much.  Just continuing to run the same damned losing gameplan over and over is insanity.

Reality check:  WE ARE LOSING.  WE ARE LOSING BIGTIME.  WE HAVE BEEN LOSING FOR A CENTURY.  Our best shot, the Sainted Reagan, only slowed the growth curve for the all powerful fedgov.  While he did end the Soviets he did exactly zero to curb the larger menace within.  If now isn't the time to call some risky plays then when exactly is?  When the storm troopers are banging on our doors in a not so far away night?

We need to try things.  Some won't work.  We can learn to not do those again.  But with luck some will work and we can do more of those things.  But again, what exactly is the other option?

Yes, up on the east coast we probably need to be willing to support people like Scott Brown and Chris Christie.  But there is zero reason to settle for RINOs in actual red states.

86 Did everyone take the day off over at the "Conversation"?

87 Walker  is  slowly   moving  up  my  list  of  candidates  for  2016.  I  don't  think  Rubio  is the lock  he  probably  thinks  he is.

88 is he primative because he is from a recently immigrated family

89 ...McCaskill's people used an old Chicago trick by encouraging Democratic crossover voting in the primaries.... ----- It really pisses me off that there's been no effort I can see of the Party fixing our friggin' primaries. They need to close them. AND they need to consolidate them so that NH and IA don't have such a ridiculously huge impact on things. And NO MORE DEBATES RUN BY THE ENEMY.

90 is he primative because he is hispanic?

91

She's not dead, for one thing.

 

Yea, should have figured that out.  It just seems nothing would suprise me anymore.

92 is he primative because he is swarthy?

93 What the RINOs don't know:  They can never bow low enough to appease the left.

What the left doesn't know:  They can never bow low enough to appease Islam.

94 So its more "fun time at the circular gun range" or co-ed tits... let me think which one of these is better.

95

OT: Pope to canonize Gabby Giffords before he steps down. Choirs singing.

Seriuosly? Not to be insensitive and I mean God bless her, but getting shot now get's you canonized?  Whatever. There's many reasons I left the Catholic church. Hopefully the new Pontiff can right their ship.

96 is he primative because he looks short?

97 I'm getting an exorbitant lag time loading due to some site called damnlol.com here.

Anyone else getting that?

Posted by: © Sponge at February 13, 2013 04:11 PM (xmcEQ)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

LOL!

98 Y-Not,  all  good  points.  And  I'd  say   different  debate  formats.  

99 Primitive and dreamy.

100

"I'm losing confidence in the Tea Party's ability to distinguish Protest Candidates from Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change."

 

Stop it, ace. You never had confidence about the above, and you are simply reinforcing what you have thought for quite some time.

 

I'm not saying this to defend those few candidates that you just can't move past, just noting what I observe.

 

And now I'm ready to move on toward making a difference, rather than beating each other up over a difference.  

 

Regards

MM

101 73 No matter how you slice it, you're a goddamn criminal. That sound better to you, asshole? .... 'Criminal Immigrant' it is then Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 13, 2013 04:09 PM (TK19Y) I've been using the contraction "crimmigrant" for years.

102 Yes, up on the east coast we probably need to be willing to support people like Scott Brown and Chris Christie. But there is zero reason to settle for RINOs in actual red states. --- This to a degree. My stance is that NE RINOs can get some support, but NOT the kind of overwhelming financial support given to former Sen. Linc Chafee when he was openly flipping the bird to the party. That guy was such a crapweasel that he claims he'd have caucused with the Dems if he'd actually gotten re-elected that year.

103 Have to be dead to be cannonized.

104 Primitive = snowbillie, only from FL where there ain't no snow.

105 92 is he primative because he is hispanic? Posted by: thunderb at February 13, 2013 04:14 PM (Dnbau) --Well, the Miami Sound Machine had a hit album called Primitive Love.

106 Mr. Matthews needs to explain what he means by "primative"..sounds like a code word to me

107 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

108
"I think the concern that people have is that somehow people in Washington in the Beltway are going to decide that someone canÂ’t get elected. ThatÂ’s the argument they used against me and I donÂ’t believe thatÂ’s Karl RoveÂ’s intention... "




Actually Marco, that's exactly his intention.  He SAID that's his intention.

109 what does Mr Matthews have against hispanic men?

110 Chris Matthews saying "primitive" is his siren song for "crush my shart blossom, big daddy!"

111

MSNBC's Matthews calls Latino US Senator "primitive"???????????

 

 

Please please please do a post about this or an article.  Seriously.  Don't you see every narrative and hilarity in just the headline that can be sent around!!!!

 

I mean the piece writes itself.  "MSNBC's Chris Matthews is well-known for racial dogwhistles.  This term means that certain words are actually code words for racial statements.  He has gone so far as to assert that the word "Chicago" code be one of these so-called offensive "code words."

 

But what does it mean when Matthews refers to Marco Rubio as a "primitive." Mr. Rubio is a Hispanic American whose parents were immigrants to this country.  Is it fair for Matthews to lambast the word "Chicago" as a code word, and yet denigrate a prominent Latino as a primitive.

 

Chris Matthews of MSNBC has some explaining to do, as according to his standards, this is blatant racism on his parts.  Or perhaps his "standards" only apply to those critical his tingle-hero, President Obama.  Matthews should be careful of his dog-whistle labels, or otherwise legitimate criticisms (mentioning cities, for example) could be misrepresented as racist.  For Matthews to denigrate minorities as primitives is the ultimate case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Oh wait, was that racist?  I guess I will have to wait for double-standard, dog-whistle tingle Matthews to let us all know, after he is done calling minority US Senators "primitive." 

112 this fact doesn't delegitimize his criticism, which is pretty much on-point when you have select Senate candidates fragging themselves over two cycles. This ignores that multiple establishment candidates lost Senate races by similar margins during this time period. The solution isn't with the leadership that gave us electoral defeat in 2006, 2008, and in the case of Romney, 2012. The TEA party is young and has flaws. However Rubio, Cruz, and Rand are all examples of senators that would have been shut out by the establishment. Hell, even Scott Brown won through huge TEA party goodwill and lost without it (although he was doomed anyway). The TEA party will put forth bad candidates on occasion. But then, so does the GOP and so do the Dems.

113 I mean, just because he is not a tall blond Irish drunk like Mr Matthews.. primative?

114 1. Elect "electable" R's who function as D's. 2. ???? 3. Conservative win!

115 “When you inaccurately call me illegal, you not only dehumanize me, you’re offending them,” he said. “No human being is illegal.”

Illegal and alien is the language used in current US law.

116   Gabby's Husband:  Here's one -- nine pence.
  St. Gabby:  I'm not dead!
  Papal Rep:  What?
  Gabby's Husband :  Nothing -- here's your nine pence.
  St. Gabby:  I'm not dead!
  Papal Rep:  Here -- he says he's not dead!
  Gabby's Husband:  Yes, he is.
  St. Gabby:  I'm not!
  Papal Rep:  He isn't.
  Gabby's Husband:  Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
  St. Gabby:  I'm getting better!
  Gabby's Husband:  No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment.
  Papal Rep:  Oh, I can't take him like that -- it's against regulations.
  St. Gabby:  I don't want to go in the cart!
  Gabby's Husband:  Oh, don't be such a baby.
  Papal Rep:  I can't take him...
  St. Gabby:  I feel fine!
  Gabby's Husband:  Oh, do us a favor...
  Papal Rep:  I can't.
  Gabby's Husband:  Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes?  He won't
      be long.
  Papal Rep:  Naaah, I got to go on to Robinson's -- they've lost nine
      today.
  Gabby's Husband:  Well, when is your next round?
  Papal Rep:  Thursday.
  St. Gabby:  I think I'll go for a walk.
  Gabby's Husband:  You're not fooling anyone y'know.  Look, isn't there
      something you can do?
  St. Gabby:  I feel happy... I feel happy.
      [whop]
  Gabby's Husband:  Ah, thanks very much.
  Papal Rep:  Not at all.  See you on Thursday.

117 "Rubio Drinks".
There, that's what a good editor is for.

118 Speaking of NE RINOs, Susan Collins has said she won't support Hagel. So that's something, anyway.

119 I vote for AtC... anyone that wears stompy boots to kick the shit out of a liar is a winner in my book!

I prostrate myself before you, Oh Mistress of the Stomp!!!

120

And anyway, why rag on the Tea Party for a spotty record of picking candidates? At least they are trying, don't see anyone else doing that much. Just continuing to run the same damned losing gameplan over and over is insanity.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

What some people fail to realize is that we've had some successes with the Tea Party.  Which, considering the DC leviathon, isn't a bad record.

121

I'm with ace.  I want a party somewhere between the Die Rinos Vic Party and the FrumBrook Party. 

 

Also, in the catergory of not ever being pleased,  conservatives on this site calling for a fiscal conservative should love Christie but he apparently lost them because of other issues.  I'm glad they have seen the light but the point is, everybody is going to disappoint you at some time.  

122 If through the MSM's blatant and silly overreaching of "Water-gate", we can change even one liberal's mind, we should.

123 I   just  want  to know  the  examples  from  2012  where  the  tea  party  was  more  interested  in  protest  candidates  than  winning.   Seems  like  we  are  still  talking  about  2010  which  was  the tea  party's  first  election.  

124 Protest Candidates from Candidates who Can Actually be Put Into Position to Make Change.

Like Akin and Mourdock?  Waaaaaait a minute!

The problem isn't that the tea party "Can't distinguish" it's that there is rather a dearth of available options.  It Has Been Decided that the Establishment oiks won't do anything (and they won't), and a good definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."  So the Tea Party is trying something different.

And, in places, its working.  In others, it's not.  It is in the interest both of the Republican Good Ole Boys' club and the Liberals to paint everyone in the Tea Parties (and especially anyone seeking to become a citizen-legislator) with the broad brush of some of the more spectacular explosions- including Akin and Mourdock- neither of whom were "Tea Party" candidates.

125 is he primative because he is hispanic?

He's primative because he has an ACU rating higher than 0.

126 The MA GOP can go eat a bag of dicks. Whether its Winslow or Gomez, they are going to suck all the money out of the state that should be going to winning off-year state house and senate seats. Those fucking morons. And still no word on the third republican senate candidate anywhere in the press, which makes me happy. He has t announced yet, but he's going to have the backing of he liberty people.

127 If Karl Rove had had his way Senator Charlie Crist would have given the Republican rebuttal to the president. So yeah lets listen to that genius.

128 OT - Soopermexican has video of the shootout yesterday

129 Test 0 o

Why does pixy turn all my zeroes into ohs?

130 Ace: "If you completely win, you've won the right to have the losing party abandon you."

Well, as a racist, baby-killing Tea Party advocate, I've seen how this particular street runs. Turns out it's one way. I'm supposed to sit down, shut up, and sacrifice my principles... for the pragmatism. I've paid my dues to that fallacy long enough. For decades as it turns out. I'm not the one who did the abandoning while we, as the Right of Center, kept moving the Overton Window left. I went along. Again for decades as it turns out. But when a Tea Party "freak" (by whatever metric gets bandied about, honestly or dishonestly by The Powers That Be) wins, that candidate is immediately scorned to oblivion and used as the representative sample to demonize everyone who doesn't cow to the very Powers That Be that exist to destroy any challenge.

Nope. Not playing anymore. When winning is still losing, I'm out. I used not to be. I am now. Out. Pragmatism and "moderation" is the New Capitulation. Screw that. We've all seen exactly where that gets us. It gets us SCoaMF and wannabe-SCoaMFs. It's time for the pragmatists to sit down and shut up for a while and follow different leaders. My ideology has been sabotaged enough.

131
"Karl Rove was one of my earliest supporters even when I was thirty points down in the polls he wrote me a check, he told people he was supporting me, he helped me in my race and I was thirty or forty points down. ThatÂ’s important for fairness to say that. Ultimately, when I was the nominee American Crossroads came in to Florida and spent a lot of money on my candidacy and weÂ’re grateful for that."




Open the door for your -- ah! -- Mystery Date....

132 Also, in the catergory of not ever being pleased, conservatives on this sitecalling for a fiscal conservative should love Christie but he apparently lost them because of other issues. I'm glad they have seen the light but the point is, everybody is going to disappoint you at some time.

Posted by: polynikes at February 13, 2013 04:20 PM (m2CN7)

The fat bastard was attacking republicans for not giving him pork.

133  Gabby's Husband: Here's one -- nine pence.
St. Gabby: I'm not dead!
Papal Rep: What?
Gabby's Husband : Nothing -- here's your nine pence.
St. Gabby: I'm not dead!
Papal Rep: Here -- she says she's not dead!
Gabby's Husband: Yes, she is.
St. Gabby: I'm not!
Papal Rep: She isn't.
Gabby's Husband: Well, she will be soon, she's very ill.
St. Gabby: I'm getting better!
Gabby's Husband: No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment.
Papal Rep: Oh, I can't take her like that -- it's against regulations.
St. Gabby: I don't want to go in the cart!
Gabby's Husband: Oh, don't be such a baby.
Papal Rep: I can't take her...
St. Gabby: I feel fine!
Gabby's Husband: Oh, do us a favor...
Papal Rep: I can't.
Gabby's Husband: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? She won't
be long.
Papal Rep: Naaah, I got to go on to Robinson's -- they've lost nine
today.
Gabby's Husband: Well, when is your next round?
Papal Rep: Thursday.
St. Gabby: I think I'll go for a walk.
Gabby's Husband: You're not fooling anyone y'know. Look, isn't there
something you can do?
St. Gabby: I feel happy... I feel happy.
[whop]
Gabby's Husband: Ah, thanks very much.
Papal Rep: Not at all. See you on Thursday.

134

Torquewrench,  Absolutely!!!

John Morris:  You are wrong about Reagan.  Revenues and expenditures were balanced under Reagan.  Aside from one glaring issue.

 

The debt service interest payments were out of fucking control thanks to Paul Volcker.  Imagine what the deficit would look like right now with 13% Fed rates.

 

Even under Clinton's 8 years, which most of the time had balanced budgets if not surpluses, THE DEBT STILL WENT UP BY OVER A TRILLION.  It is because interest on the debt is the killer.  And it will kill us all.

 

Can we back away from ZIRP?  I have no idea.

135 I don't know where this Giffords canonization rumor got started, but it is ludicrous.

136 Akin  wasn't   tea  party,   and  Mourdock  was   a   good  candidate  who  didn't  help  himself,  but  nor  did it help  that  Luger  and  his  supporters  decided  not  to support  him.  Dewhurst  supported  Cruz.   It  is  possible  to  support  your  party  after  you  lose.  

137 The Tea Party is absolutely to blame for the trouncing that the Republican Party took in 2006. Wait. What?

138 Rove needs to join forces with Meggers McCain to form a support group - "Desperately Seeking Attention". Call me!

139 "The solution isn't with the leadership that gave us electoral defeat in 2006, 2008, and in the case of Romney, 2012." It's just fucking comical these days that the proven losing strategies from losing strategists is something we're supposed to back, because...well...we'll win the next one by golly! Just keep doing the same old shit guys, and expect a different result. The Dems can swing further and further left with no electoral penalty, and we have to swing left too?? If that's what's necessary, count me out.

140 Why does pixy turn all my zeroes into ohs? Posted by: Radish at February 13, 2013 04:21 PM (/kI1Q) Rationing.

141 Truman North: "This is interesting though. If you want to win elections, Karl Rove is your man. If you want to save the country, Forget him."

Bingo. Except for the Rove actually winning elections thing. Turns out his record is rather dubious overall.

And Rove, you need to meet Satan's Barbed C*ck.

142 I refuse to believe that needing water during a speech can lead to someone suddenly being unworthy for political office, but the MSM is doing their best to make it so. Van Jones certainly has Rubio in his crosshairs now. Too bad they did not put as much ink and screen time investigating Benghazi as they have a bottle of water; utter fail. Probably not saying anything that other, cleverer morons have not already said today, but I needed to vent.

143 I think we should focus on abortion and gay marriage to help win elections. Because the Republican platform on those issues is so popular.

144 could not disagree more. Look at the caliber of the tea party senators compared to anyone else in congress of either party. if those are the protest candidates then yeah sign me up. it's the tea party/common sense vs. the washington establishment. I couldn't care less what Carl Rove or the other Republican bluebloods have to say about it.

145 I'll argue that the 'heat and fire of the Tea Party' is not only the right prescription for the nearly-dead GOP, it's the only prescription. The challenge facing the GOP has nothing to do with wonky policy; it's solely about selling a brand to an electorate with an extraordinarily short attention span.

146

lets try this exercise.... what if someone on Fox called the President "primative", can you imagine the howling, the screams of "racism!!"? 

 

Primative?

147 If it were up to Karl Rove, Marco Rubio wouldn't even be a senator right now. 

148 There's a generational auctorial tic writers especially around our age very often display where what the writer will do to look like he's Serious People is he'll feign perplexity at a simple- and dualistic-seeming judgment and pretend to have deferred really deciding anything about it because Things Can't Be That Simple, Can They? and he makes it like what you're doing as you read along, over whatever temporal or textual length he's doing this thing over, is you're watching him in the process of becoming Solomon and so then at the end when he very judiciously reaches the judiciously deferred time when finally he'll allow himself finally and judiciously to choose the side he was always on already, suckers and people who are also inclined to pretend they're not like they really are will go man, that guy's thinkin'--like I do.

...

I'm just noting this.

149 I think Van Jones is "primative"

150
BTW - The CBN interview rhis all jumps off from: http://tinyurl.com/bjcm5ou

151

Posted by: Eaton Cox at February 13, 2013 04:24 PM (q177U)

 

Liar.

152 Demorats are not that smart. It should be easy to defeat them in every way.

Posted by: Prescient11 at February 13, 2013 04:01 PM (tVTLU)

Patently not true.  It's this sort of underestimation that gets us kicked in the balls then repeatedly suckerpunched in political arenas.  They are smart, and they know how to play politics.  We need to be smart and play politics better.

153 Again,  I  don't  disagree  with  Ace's  primary  point,  which  I  interpret  to be  that  this  tension  is  probably   good  for the party.   But  Ace  seems  to  be  leaning  away  from   the  Tea  Party.   I  go  the  other  way.   I'm  much  more  impressed  with  the  Tea  Party's  victories  lately  than  the  establishments.   So   rather  than  the  Tea   Party  being  the brake,  I'd  rather  the  establishment  be  the  brake.   Maybe  that is  what  Ace  is  saying.   I  guess  I'm  just  not  as  down  on  them  (whoever  they  are)  as  much  as  Ace.   I  think  this  has  a lot  to do  with  living  in Texas  and  being  a  Ted  Cruz  supporter  from   the  get-go,  when  few  gave  him a  chance.

154 Karl Rove should retire.  HIS  presidential  candidates always lose.  Why, in the name of all that's holy and unholy, should we be listening to this douche.

155  If it were up to Karl Rove, Marco Rubio wouldn't even be a senator right now.

Posted by: buzzion at February 13, 2013 04:25 PM (GULKT)

 

So what was posted at Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 13, 2013 04:21 PM (kdS6q)  help reconsider what you just posted.?

156
This ignores that multiple establishment candidates lost Senate races by similar margins during this time period

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 13, 2013 04:18 PM (kdfQ/)

But rarely in states that the GOP had been expected to win easily. 

157 I'm   with  soothsayer  on  this.

158 including Akin and Mourdock- neither of whom were "Tea Party" candidates.

Mourdock was a less-spending alternative to Obama's Favorite Republican Senator, who had been elected and re-elected to a statewide office.

None of the people who can't stop cursing "tea party" for putting him on Indiana's ballot said shit about him during the primaries.

159 I'm putting my marker down now, by the way: Rand Paul wins the 2016 MA Republican presidential primary.

160 It's this sort of underestimation that gets us kicked in the balls then repeatedly suckerpunched in political arenas. They are smart, and they know how to play politics. We need to be smart and play politics better.

This.

Even if they're not "smart" they are certainly canny (and those aren't always the same thing).  Underestimate them to your own (and, unfortunately, mine too) peril.

161

Heralder and AllenG:

 

I would just read the rest of my post.  An educated person could simply destroy each and every argument of the left on gun control.

 

The people behind the scenes are smart for the demorats, but your average MSM lickspittle follower is not.  See Soledad O'Brien; Piers Morgan, Wolf Blitzer, etc.

162 I think this has a lot to do with living in Texas and being a Ted Cruz supporter from the get-go, when few gave him a chance.

Posted by: SH at February 13, 2013 04:28 PM (gmeXX)

 

I'm neither a tea party advocate or dissenter but I would say the first person to really notice Ted Cruz on a national level and give him a chance for big things was Jay Nordlinger from National Review.  He is not a tea partier.   

163 Mourdock was a less-spending alternative to Obama's Favorite Republican Senator, who had been elected and re-elected to a statewide office.

I'll admit all I know about Mourdock I learned on Ace o' Spades.  So I might have missed something.  But my point was the one you made- Mourdock was a "career politician" who had held state-wide elective office.   Had that seat been open (instead of him winning a primary against the incumbent), it's likely that Rove's new group would support him vociferously. 

Sometimes you just can't predict a dick-stepping moment.

164 JDP @ 145 wrote: "however i do think someone like Akin feeds into a certain opposing narrative used against the GOP that other losing candidates didn't, even though the impact on votes is the same."

So?  The Party Media already had their War on Women storyline written, they were only looking for the stock footage to flesh it out.  If the only way we win is if NOBODY NOWHERE on our team EVER says anything epic stupid during an election cycle... well we can all just get our 'sporting goods' out now and suck the business end because we are boned.

We SAY we want citizen legislators instead of polished poll tested, focus group sound bite spoon fed politicians.  Then we scream and shout "Fie!" when some unpolished citizen aspires to the legislature.  Pick.  Normal people, who sometimes turn out to be less than perfect... hell sometimes less than bright or even sane; or you can have career politicians.  But we know how that ends.

165 If Karl Rove were really serious about Republicans winning and retaining seats shouldn't he have a word to the sitting members about doing the right thing by their voters instead of antagonizing them.  It's the behavior of the sitting members that is fuelling the Tea Party.

166 An educated person could simply destroy each and every argument of the left on gun control.

Sure they could.  Even barely literate Morons like us can.  And if the majority of the population operated on logic and reason, we'd win every election.  They don't, so we don't.

167 Patently not true. It's this sort of underestimation that gets us kicked in the balls then repeatedly suckerpunched in political arenas. They are smart, and they know how to play politics. We need to be smart and play politics better.

Posted by: Heralder at February 13, 2013 04:28 PM (+xmn4)

They're not that smart , they win on being completely immoral. Anything goes, anything.  Just take the case of Zimmerman.

168 Sometimes you just can't predict a dick-stepping moment. --- It isn't always what you do but how it's covered. Who the fuck had ever heard the term "macaca" before the WaPo decided to do a full-court press to kill Sen. George Allen's career?

169

I would just read the rest of my post. An educated person could simply destroy each and every argument of the left on gun control.

----

 

Prescient,  I  agree,  but  I  think  we  make  a mistake  trying  to  win  on   logic.   We  should  simply  stick  with  they are coming  to  take  away  your  guns.   Nothing  else.   That's  how  you  get the  masses  to  vote.   They  don't  care  about  logic.   The  people  who  claim  they  do,  the  educated,  the hipsters,  the  college  kids  are  simply  lying.   Nohting  willl get  them  to change  their  minds  about  guns.   The  GOP  should  simply   say,  we will not let those  liberals  take away  your  guns.   Nothing  fancy.

170 Re Rubio's sip of water.

You would think he did this.

http://bit.ly/WJBl29

The press needs an intervention.

171

SH:

 

Yes, the tea party is an excellent phenomenon.  But there is something happening underneath the surface.  From the reddit founder's suicide, to now the atlantic writing about "unlocking phones" and the drone strikes.

 

There is an undercurrent brewing on both the liberals and the tea party that we are sick of having our rights trampled by our government overlords.  We are sick of being felons for owning guns or smoking weed or assisting in the free flow of information.  we are sick of getting our crotches felt up or our electronic devices seized near border crossings.

 

THIS IS THE RON PAUL PHENOMENON.  THIS IS THE MOVEMENT THAT IS GROWING.  THIS IS WHAT WE MUST!!!! TAP IN TO.

 

If we do this, we will win.  And win in large fashion.

172 FYNQ

Repubs feel the need to answer every liberal trick question even if they don't know what they are talking about.

The mindset with Dems is not to answer questions with "how do I tell the truth?" but rather "BS BS what would my attorney tell me to say BS BS ?"   

or FYNQ

173 But rarely in states that the GOP had been expected to win easily. If Romney had not been our nominee in 2012, the dominant meme today would be that he would have won. The GOP establishment candidates lost their primaries despite in general massively outspending their opponents. They were not good candidates.

174 Polynikes  -  I  agree  with  you  completely.   Those  against  the  Tea  Party  bring  up  O'Donnell and  those  who   support  it use  Cruz.   Both  are  kind of  unfair  IMO.   O'Donell  was  an exceptionally  weak  candidate  in  all  respects,  but  Cruz  was  an  exceptional  candidate  in  all respects.   Plus  the  states  couldn't  be  any  different.  Anyway,  I'd  simply  learn  lessons  from  both  their  candidacies  and  move  on.

175

The challenge facing the GOP has nothing to do with wonky policy; it's solely about selling a brand to an electorate with an extraordinarily short attention span.

 

Sooth, it's the opposite, Republicans are in trouble because conservatives have long memories. 

176

Somtimes  I enjoy these discussions and sometimes I don't.  Most of the time we have no idea what the electoral atmosphere is going to be even a year down the road.

 

Which reminds me.  Shouldn't  we be putting our focus on  2014 instead of trying to divine  future candidates for 2016?  I know  where the dems focus is now.

 

 

177

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 13, 2013 04:33 PM (AWmfW)

You can be smart and wrong or smart and progressive (but I repeat myself).  It's really not giving them too much credit, as fun as it is to just universally malign our political enemies, it doesn't help us win.

And yes, as Allen said, even if it's not smarts it's canny politics.  They appeal to emotion when they know emotion will win while we're busy boring people with bar graphs.  The bar graphs are important, but not if no one is listening in the first place.

 

178

SH:

 

I agree.  But underneath the theme one needs to be able to back it up with absolute facts and argument.

 

That's what we need.  Themes to hammer home again and again.  And then the ability to back up the fucking argument.  Usually we can do the latter, somewhat, but the former we are not very good at.

179 The ARCHITECT!! backed Oompa-Loompa over Rubio and Sphincter over Toomey

Both switched to the Dem party after being primaried

Way to pick 'em Karl. Go fuck yourself

180 THIS IS THE RON PAUL PHENOMENON. THIS IS THE MOVEMENT THAT IS GROWING. THIS IS WHAT WE MUST!!!! TAP IN TO.

If we do this, we will win. And win in large fashion.

Posted by: Prescient11 at February 13, 2013 04:35 PM (tVTLU)

 

I don't think pissing on the graves of dead heroes is going to bring in the votes. Fuck Ron Paul.

181 @177  Prescient  -  I  don't  disagree  with  any  of  that.   Call  it   a  libertarian  push,  or  what.   Its  why  I  like  Rand  Paul  -  at  least  so  far.  You   are  right,  there  is  something  there,  and  we  should  tap  into  it  somehow. 

182 And did you hear? Rubio drinks water. Holy mackerel, there's your headline.







4 Americans killed in Benghazi wasn't a story but the MFM will run with this for weeks

183 THIS IS THE RON PAUL PHENOMENON. THIS IS THE MOVEMENT THAT IS GROWING. THIS IS WHAT WE MUST!!!! TAP IN TO.

If we do this, we will win. And win in large fashion.

Posted by: Prescient11

***

 

You've been smoking sea slug penis.

184 190 And did you hear? Rubio drinks water. Holy mackerel, there's your headline. --- He didn't spit it into the air, making a fine mist, did he? Next thing you know, he'll start carrying a sledgehammer and porking the boss's daughter too!

185

I agree. But underneath the theme one needs to be able to back it up with absolute facts and argument.

 

----

 

I   don't  know  about  that.   I  think  we  should  simply   argue  with  emotion.  Facts  ultimately   don't  matter  to  voters.   Emotion  is  how you get people  to  vote.

186 ....sh and prescient are paulians...what a surprise

187 Let's give Dick Lugar some more time. after all he's only 81 and its early in his 6th or 7 th term. he's still chalk full of new ideas to make government smaller. If Karl Rove says to support Dick, that's good enough for me.

188

Posted by: SH at February 13, 2013 04:36 PM (gmeXX)

 

The difference between me and a lot of posters here is that once McDonnell (or any tea party person) was our candidate or once McCain was our candidate,  the mission was set and from then on it was full 100% propagandizing , over the top support.  Unfortunately the vote depression rhetoric continued on our side which surely also went beyond just our intertubes. Same thing happened with Romney.

 

189 THIS IS THE RON PAUL PHENOMENON. THIS IS THE MOVEMENT THAT IS GROWING


WASF

190

but Cruz was an exceptional candidate in all respects.

 

So why did the establishment push someone else instead of him?  In my estimation Rove and his coterie are no better at picking winner than anyone else. 

191 phoenixgirl  --  don't  insult  me  by  calling  me a  Paulian.  I have  never  supported  the  guy.  

192 if this happens i'm joining the crotchety young fogie party as i am strongly anti-choom

Posted by: JDP at February 13, 2013 04:37 PM (60GaT)

 

 

-----------------------------------

 

 

I am too.   The  choomers for legalization are just another   future useless group that'll be  eventually  begging for government cheese. 

193 JDP @ 179 said, "sorry i just don't share this fatalistic view"

Reality.  Our enemy isn't Obama.  Our enemy isn't the senile botoxed fool Pelosi.  They wouldn't last five minutes without the Party's media machinery.  We try new tactics until we find some that are effective against that opponent.  Newt knows this and can fight them but his methods require very rare skills to employ.  We need to find more universal ways to attack them.  They are dying; but not nearly fast enough to save us unless we can start seeing them as THE enemy and bend our every effort to the problem of finding some attacks that can work against them to hasten their demise.

Either that or give up and suck the barrel.  And that ain't my style.

194

So why did the establishmentpush someone else instead of him?In my estimation Rove and his coterie are no better at picking winner thananyone else.

 

----

 

That's  it.   By  not  supporting  Cruz,   the  establishment  continues  this   us  v.  them  mentality.  If  the  establishment  had  supported  them,  I  think  they  would  better  be able to  claim  that  they  know  what  they  are  doing.

195 but Cruz was an exceptional candidate in all respects.

So why did the establishmentpush someone else instead of him?In my estimation Rove and his coterie are no better at picking winner thananyone else.

Posted by: Decaf at February 13, 2013 04:44 PM (NmvvV)

 

Again with the establishment schtick.  Rick Perry supported Cruz's opponent so is Rick Perry the establishment now?

196 "I agree with you completely. Those against the Tea Party bring up O'Donnell and those who support it use Cruz. Both are kind of unfair IMO. O'Donell was an exceptionally weak candidate..."


Why can't the Tea Party and its supporters own up to that?  Instead we get "Oh, but her suicide run helped out in the long term."  No it didn't.  We're back to whining about RINOs and Teh Establishment. 

O'Donell was a failure.  So is the Tea Party so far.  I don't see the Tea Party being our savior if it's going to whine about how nice a guy it is.  Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

197 Polynikes  -  No  I  don't  think  Perry  is,  but  obviously   the  establishment  is a  loose  term,  just  as  the  tea  party  is a  loose  term.

198

Shouldn't we be putting our focus on 2014 instead of trying to divine future candidates for 2016?

 

Yes, yes, yes.  We've done enough autopsying of the last election, let's bury the dead and get on with it.  Without a win in 2014 there won't be a 2016.  Obama will run a scorched earth operation that there will be nothing left of the Republican party or even conservatives to matter in 2016.

199 We likely wouldn't have Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, or Ted Cruz in the Senate if we'd had listened to our betters. Maybe if the "establishment conservatives" Rove is leading could, oh, I dunno, perhaps explain their love of Charlie "I'm Orange" Crist in 2010 maybe I'd give them some credence...

200 Primitive? One word you would associate with that is--fear. The Democrat's bread and butter is demographics and the resentment card. The Democrats have the black vote nailed down--and some viable black candidates. Now-when it comes to the latino vote and latino candidates it gets a little less secure. Dems have Salazar--who is kind of out to pasture, some mayor in LA and--Eva Longoria. I'm pretty sure they hope Eva Longoria doesn't get any ideas.... So the word 'primitive" is really a projection of what Rubio makes Matthews feel-- fear. (kind of the antithesis of a tingle.)

201 oops--not Biden.

202 polynikes @ 203 said, "Rick Perry supported Cruz's opponent so is Rick Perry the establishment now"

No, Perry gets a pass.  A Governor is kinda required to support his Lt. Gov.  Politics has rules and traditions ya know.  Conservatives of all people should respect that.

203 SH: "Emotion is how you get people to vote."

A lot of truth in that statement. As sophisticated as this country has become via technological advances, I'm convinced it's much more stupid than it has ever been. Logic and tangible knowledge (which is different than modern credentialism) has deteriorated as evidenced by, for example, student performance thorough time, the introduction of Ebonics, and SOTU speeches. We are dumbing our country down to the point of dysfunction. When logic and facts are inadequate to persuade, you have to try something else since actual education takes years and years of development. We are a developing Idiocracy. Consequently, we need different tactics

We have an acute problem. Our immediate political response does indeed need to be an appeal to emotionalism and how people "feel" as opposed to "think". Sure, we can introduce logic and facts into the argument, but it cannot be the sine qua non.

204

Again with the establishment schtick. Rick Perry supported Cruz's opponent so is Rick Perry the establishment now?

 

Yes.  How much more establishment can you get than a long term governor?

205

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at February 13, 2013 04:49 PM (1hM1d)

 

again, does Rubio's own words mean nothing?

 

Karl Rove was one of my earliest supporters even when I was thirty points down in the polls he wrote me a check, he told people he was supporting me, he helped me in my race and I was thirty or forty points down. ThatÂ’s important for fairness to say that. Ultimately, when I was the nominee American Crossroads came in to Florida and spent a lot of money on my candidacy and weÂ’re grateful for that."

206

Why can't the Tea Party and its supporters own up to that? Instead we get "Oh, but her suicide run helped out in the long term." No it didn't. We're back to whining about RINOs and Teh Establishment.

O'Donell was a failure. So is the Tea Party so far. I don't see the Tea Party being our savior if it's going to whine about how nice a guy it is. Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

 

----

 

I   think  you  undercut  your  argument  in  your  two  paragraphs.   Let  me  flip  it  on you.  Why  can't  you  admit  that  the  tea  party  fueled   the  success  of  2010?   Both  the  Tea   Party  and  the  Establishment  have  successes  and  failures.  And  both  are  very   loose  terms  as  to  who  belongs  to  what  group,  but  I think  we generally  understand  it.   I  hope  both  can  learn   and  understand  that  some  candidates  are  better  than   others  and  some  states are  easier  to back  more  conservative  candidates.   In  essence,  for  lack  of  a  better  rule,  the  Buckley  Rule.

207 Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

exactly!

208 Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

no doubt!

209

Posted by: Decaf at February 13, 2013 04:52 PM (NmvvV)

 

So the establishment is any Republican who opposes who you want as a candidate. Got it.

210 Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

perfectly stated!

211

I think we should simply argue with emotion. Facts ultimately don't matter to voters. Emotion is how you get people to vote.

 

It's worked for Democrats in the last three elections.  How long does it take us to twig to it?  Enough with the Sheldon Cooper approach.

212 Primitive --that really is a telling word choice.

213 Decaf,  I  agree  we  should  be  putting  our  focus  on  2014.  I  would  do that  by  keeping  gun  control  in  the  news  for the next 18  months.

214 Primitive --that really is a telling word choice.

Posted by: tasker at February 13, 2013 04:55 PM (r2PLg)

 

The comments on this issue made me think of the scene in Animal House.

215 Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner.

C'mon! I'm groovy with those Tea Party whippersnappers !

216

Karl Rove was one of my earliest supporters even when I was thirty points down in the polls he wrote me a check, he told people he was supporting me,

 

Who did Rove tell that he supported Rubio if nobody knew about it?  I don't remember his mentioning it during any of his appearances on Fox.

217 Rubio drinks water? Clearly it isn't distilled or rainwater, since it clearly corrupted his purity of essence of his bodily fluids during his rebuttal yesterday...

218 Shoot me @ 204 said, "Oh, but her suicide run helped out in the long term." No it didn't.

I'd say it did.  In the end we weren't likely to seat ANY Republican in that state.  Reality check time.  But rejecting the party approved RINO sent a shock wave across the political landscape that told every incumbent Republican everywhere that that the natives were restless and they couldn't take renomination for granted.  In other words it got their attention and forced them to stop worrying about what the NYT thought about them quite as much because they now had to worry about what the base thought about them.  Worse was the thought the base was thinking about them at all instead of just showing up to punch the ballot from habit.

In short we lost a virtually unwinnable seat, that even had we won with the RINO would have only really voted for our team once (for the leadership position) and more than likely would have Chaffe'd before the first term expired.  In exchange we got frightened RINOs from sea to shining sea and a lot more people jumping into primary races.  Don't know how you score than as anything other than a win.

Akin and Mourdock were losses since those seats were winnable.  Oh well, learn and move on.

219

Decaf, I agree we should be putting our focus on 2014. I would do that by keeping gun control in the news for the next 18 months.

 

Yes, an emotional and a clear cut issue.

220 "Whining about an invisible enemy like Teh Establishment doesn't strike me as the behavior of a winner."

We donÂ’t need a lot of Jim DeMint disciples. As soon as they get here, we need to co-opt them [the Tea Party].

221 Boehner, whatever you think of him, =/= Maine sisters

this is a very wide net of RINOism

lots of glass in the Overton window.

There are degrees of utter failure, I'll give you that.

222 polynikes, that's great that KR supported Marco when it was nothing but an uphill climb the looked more like Everest than a hill in Tallahassee. But KR wasn't the RSCC, and the RSCC was firmly behind Orange Charlie. Gosh, one might even say that KR was...a Tea Party member. He certainly was cutting against the grain. And while I don't blame Marco for the kind words to KR, it wasn't KR's doing that flipped Orange Charlie out of the party. There was wide spread discontent in the local party groups, on the county level.In straw polls they conducted, Orange Charlie was routinely and soundly whipped time and time again. The RPOF didn't want Charlie, and the RSCC could go pound sand.

223 Decaf,  the  other  thing  we  should  start  doing  is  moving  all   govenor  elections  to  non-Presidential  years.  

224 JDP @ 221 said, "the "how dare you" bombast he occasionally did against legit questions, though, not a really good strategy."

Agreed.  Newt was a flawed candidate in many ways.  I'd have supported him in a general had he somehow got through but he wasn't my choice.  But I don't deny his skills and we should be trying to learn from him.

225 Rove got his candidate of choice in Romney.  Romney lost. Why does  Rove (or anyone else) think he can do better than the Tea Party? He LOST. He had his chance and he LOST.

226 228: This is idiotic. Yes, a republican can win statewide in Delaware. Mike Castle did, over and over again. That "one vote" for leadership is an incredibly important vote (not to mention the fact that he would likely vote with us a lot more than just that once). Also why on earth would he "go chaffee" when he hadn't all the rest of his time as a statewide official. That is a hell of a strawman. We need a state by state approach. For being federalists we don't seem to understand the concept of different states being different when it comes to candidate selection.

227 236  I  don't  think  it  idiotic.  Its  a  reasonable  argument  that  you  can  certainly  rebut  against.   But  its  not like  that  one  seat  cost   us  a  majority.   I  agree with you  there  should  be  a  state  by  state  approach.   But  I   also  do  believe  that  a  message  needed  to  be  sent.  Now  maybe  the  Tea  Party   overshot  the message,  but  to  simply  say  it  had  no  effect  is   wrong  IMO.  But  I  do  think  the  message  has  been  sent  and  both  sides  should  be  using  the Buckley  Rule  (for  lack  of   a  better  rule)  here  on  out.

228 JDP @ 237 said, " because of the impossibility of overriding a Democrat in the WH"

Now who is fatalistic.  The House has the absolute power of the purse, in other words to tax and spend.  Should they ever discover the courage to use it.  Tip knew.  Nancy knows.  When Boehner figures that secret out they will discover their power.  THE issue we say we care about is the out of control Federal Budget.  Of the House, Senate and POTUS which one has the power over that subject?  Right.

Boehner needs to simply give a short speech and say something like this:

"The President has many powers, he sets foreign policy, wages war, etc.  The Senate advises and consents to Supreme Court appointments, Treaties, etc.  But to us in the House was given the power to tax and to spend money.  If we continue to spend trillions we do not have it is NOT the President's fault.  It is not the Senate's fault, heck they won't even discuss opening debate on a budget so it certainly can't be their fault.  No, it is ours. No say no more; it ends and it ends today.

We will pass a budget and the Senate is free to debate it and send it back with their changes and we will meet them in conference.  But the top line revenue and spending numbers will not be debatable anymore.  WE are going to accept our responsibility and stop this madness, we will set a path to solvency.

And the Senate WILL pass a budget and the President WILL sign it.  Because we are resolved that there will be no more continuing resolutions.

We shall either pass a budget or give up on this experiment in self government and stick a fork in the country.  We have a spending and deficit crisis, if we can't even agree that an actual budget is the first step in solving a spending crisis then there isn't really any point in continuing the farce any more."

229

I love how Rove points out the Tea Party failures of  O'Donnell, Angle,  Akin,   etc while ignoring the  Establishment's failures of Romney, McCain, Dole, etc. The Establishment has lost The Big One how  many times  now?

 

Oh, and I love how Rove calls O'Donnell, Akin, etc failures when he himself played the biggest   Self-Fulfilling Prophecy  role in   causing those  two  to lose. He bitched and moaned (and threatened  to murder  Akin) all during the campaign so,  if Rove is as powerful as he'd like us to think, he single-handedly made  them lose.

230 John  Morris,  I   like  the  approach.  I  know  there  will  be  political   fall-out  including  a  government  shutdown,  but  that  has  never  bothered  me.  But  I  wouldn't  simply   put  the  blame  on  Boehner  for  this.  I doubt  he  could  ever  hold  the  house  together.   Still  I  would  applaud  this  approach.

231

Sheila Jackson Lee.  That is primative.  For real.

232

Sigh.  I am not a Ron Paul guy.  I thought that comment re Chris Kyle was fucking reprehensible.

 

If you can't see the point I'm making then fuck it.  LIB right.  Let our children inherit this fucked up mess.

 

Limited government is the fucking point.  Limited POWER.  That is where true liberals and conservatives are converging.

 

But carry on with your inability to see the bigger fucking picture.

233 "Rove got his candidate of choice in Romney. Romney lost. Why does Rove (or anyone else) think he can do better than the Tea Party? He LOST. He had his chance and he LOST."


Yeah, if only Romney would have embraced true conservative idea like Tardisil and finding Muslims under every rock and nine nine nine affairs.

God, it's not like 2011 was that long ago.  True Cons made such fools of themselves trying to push a Not-Romney. 

234 Prescient  -  there are  a  lot  of  people  on  this  board  who  think  anything  libertarian  is  awful.  I  guess they   prefer  the  regulated  government  we  have.   Its  much easier  to  just  say  Randian  and  move  on.  

235

SH:

 

Reagan was very libertarian.  I'm with Reagan.  There is no one perfect candidate on every issue.  But the principle is the fucking same.

236 bridging the massive ideological divide

Rested and ready!

237

Yeah, if only Romney would have embraced true conservative idea like Tardisil and finding Muslims under every rock and nine nine nine affairs.

God, it's not like 2011 was that long ago. True Cons made such fools of themselves trying to push a Not-Romney.

--

 

Not  sure  what  any  of  this  means.   I  don't  think  Romney  could  have  embraced  true  conservative  ideas,  because  I  don't  think  he  believes  them.  And  I'm  not sure  when  Tardisal  became  a true conservative  idea. 

 

How  did  true  cons  make  fools  of  themselves  by  pushing  Not-Romney.  Everything  we  said  came  true.   There  is  no  doubt  that  there  was  not  a  great  non-Romney  candidate  to  elect.   Nor  could  we  every  prove  that  Santorum  would  have  done  better.   Santorum  wasn't  my   first  choice,  but  once  it  was  basically   between  him  and  Romney,  the  choice  was  easy.   When  Romney  won,  I went  all in  with  Romney. 

 

I'm  guessing  the  only  thing  we  may  possibly  agree  on  was  that  we  had  a   lously   slate  of  candidates  in  2012.   I  suspect  2016  will be  much  better.

 

 

238 polynikes Animal House scene... which one?

239 Rove is a pig. Take his chalk boards and stick it up his fat ass!

240

Prescient  -  I  think  that  commentor  obviously   missed  your  larger  point, and  it  is a  very   good  one,  one  that  conservatives  should  get  behind.   We have  too  many  laws  in this  country.   When  everyone  is a criminal,  then  people  start  losing  respect  for  the law.   This  has  happened  because  regulations  have  made  too  many  crimes.   Most  people  don't  know  they  are  committing  crimes.   We  have  taken  intent  out  of  committing  a  crime.   This  is  all  bad  for  society.   Its  unconstitiutional,  bad   policy, and  immoral. 

241  polynikes

Animal House scene...

which one?

Posted by: tasker at February 13, 2013 05:39 PM (r2PLg)

 

Where they took the girls to the black night club and one of the guys asks Brunella what her major was and she said Primative Cultures and then they cut to the band and lead singer.

242

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 13, 2013 05:28 PM (qiXMt)

 

My point  is   BOTH  sides   have put forth losers but Rove acts like   it's unique to the Tea Party. 

 

And I agree w/you that most of the True Cons who ran in '11 were idiots. I only liked Perry and could   barely stand Gingrich.

243 Further,  I'm   much  more  libertarian  when  it  comes  to  federal   issues.   There  are  way  too  many  things  that the  federal  government is involved  in  that  should be left  to the states,  particularly  related  to  drugs.

244

Posted by: SH at February 13, 2013 05:37 PM (gmeXX)

 

Romney would have made a great conservative President.  Its a shame we will never be able to benefit from a Romney presidency.

245 Conservatives need to figure out if they actually want to try and change things or simply be dead right.  I'd settle for pointing the country in at least a better direction.

Right now there seems to be an attitude of "Let's field protest candidates that can't actually win, then when everything blows up and we'll be on the right side of history and the electorate will then beg for Christine O'Donnell/Sharon Angle Republicans"  It's delusional, what will likely happen if we keep fielding dingbats is one day the US will just be 50 states of California where the real contest will simply be the Democrat primaries.

Everyone loves to trot out the Rubio example for anti-establishment/Tea Party success, but Rubio was a mainstream Republican that was a former Speaker of the House for Florida.  He's about as Establishment as you get, and if anything I find his politics on the border to be awfully close to full blown open borders Amnesty.  But he'll most likely be our nominee and despite being a consensus Establishment Republican, he'll be a hell of an improvement over what we have now.

I find the perfect is usually the enemy of the good.

246

Polynikes  -  he  may  have.   I'm  very  sad  he  lost.   I  supported  him  (not  in  the  primary, but  once  he  won).   My  biggest  doubts  about  him  were  with  respect  to  judicial  appointments.  I  probably   don't  think  he  was  as   conservative  as  you  do,  but  he  certainly   could  have  surprised  me.   I  wish  he  had  that  opportunity.  But  I  did  have  strong  doubts  that  he  could  have  won.   Maybe  none of those  nominees  could  have  won.   One  reason  I   liked  Santorum over  Romney  was  I  thought  his  populism  was  better  suited  to  this  election.   In  the  end,  I  just  think  we  had  a  lousy  choice  of  candidates.  And  it  doesnt'  matter  how  you  would  have  governed  if you can't  win.

247 Conservatives need to figure out if they actually want to try and change things or simply be dead right.[i/]

RINO.

248 "yes we're purging ourselves to fitness, rather like an anorexic"

More like chemo to remove a cancer.

249

Right now there seems to be an attitude of "Let's field protest candidates that can't actually win

 

Where  did  this  attitude  display   itself  in 2012?

250 SH @ 249 said, "I suspect 2016 will be much better."

Why?  The party establishment will put up Christie or another RINO and order us to vote for them.  Or do you see some towering figure on the horizon ready to ride to the rescue?  Unless we can stop the party from setting the rules such that they are but certain to get their way we won't win.  And who is even worrying about fixing the nominating process?

Close our primaries.  Get more of the early ones out blue states and into purple and red ones.  And never allow Party Media type to have any speaking part in our process, most certainly not in a debate.  Unless the other team is ok with National Review or AEI hosting a Democratic debate or something in trade, shut em out.  So what if they refuse to air our debates, that is an empty threat.  If a Republican can't find C-SPAN or Youtube they are useless.  And end in end they HAVE to carry them anyway, otherwise the jig is up for em.

251

John  Morris  -  Because  I'm  hoping  that  Walker,  Christie,  Jindal,  Ryan,  Rubio,   Paul,  Perry (or  some  combination  of  those  run),  and  I find  them  all  more  impressive  than  the  slate  of candidates  we  had  last  time.   We  shall  see.

 

I  don't  disagree  with  your  final  paragraph  at  all. 

252 78 OT, but not really.../

As it stands, my order of voting preference for nominee for prez...

Carson
Walker
Martinez
Rubio
Nikki Haley
R. Paul
Jeb Bush
Christie

No more motherfucking Bush's and that includes Jeb and his idiot son George P.

253 SH @ 265 said, "Because I'm hoping that Walker, Christie, Jindal, Ryan, Rubio, Paul, Perry (or some combination of those run), and I find them all more impressive than the slate of candidates we had last time."

I like all of those too except Christie, although support for Rubio is provisional until we see his Amnesty^W Immigration plan.  But can any of those muscle past the party machine and take the nomination away from Jeb Bush, Chris Christie or whatever well connected blueblood loser the Party demands we nominate?  Remember that the 'next in line' rule doesn't apply to conservatives so Ryan gets nothing from being our Veep nominee last time.

Christie is ok for NJ, he is only really right on one issue, spending, but it is the one most important to NJ and anyway no actual conservative could even get nominated there, forget getting elected.

254 263 Right now there seems to be an attitude of "Let's field protest candidates that can't actually win

Where did this attitude display itself in 2012?

It was displayed by the fact that the Primary almost became a brokered Convention when the alternatives were people like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, basically joke protest candidates, one of which was a former Freddie Mac lobbyist that married his intern mistress and was on a book tour, the other just came off a 20 point loss in his home state and wanted to make the dangers of birth control among married people a major part of his platform.

I'm all for a bloody primary if it's with "titans" that can win, but instead it was just one long temper tantrum with morons that Romney came out of broke and bruised. 

255 "And did you hear? Rubio drinks water."

He certainly carries it. Good little apparatchik. Can you feel the Jebmentum?

256 "The evangelicals and professional, working middle class have no choice but to vote for republicans."

Not true. When faced with a Democrat on one side and a Republican shit sandwich on the other, one can choose not to vote for either.

That is exactly what I will do if the Republicans nominate another shit sandwich in 2016.

257 Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww, Ace: R U having a SAD because Senate Rubio wet himself all over national TV? Don't have a SAAAAAAAAD over that: he wasn't going to win anyway. (On the other hand, this Gomez guy in Massachuslowly is lookin' pretty good; too bad he chose that state for the final resting place of his national political career. Shoulda gone to Florida, or Texas; at least then we'd get a Republican Senator that knows how to regulate intake.