Ace of Spades HQ

December 28, 2013

Saturday Car Thread 12/28/13 - [Niedermeyer's Dead Horse]
— Open Blogger

Happy last-Saturday-of-2013!

It's astonishing how this year has flown by.

Now, a personal letter to Jeep from this guest blogger:

To the folks at Jeep,
I wish I were writing to you under happier circumstances but such is not the case as, just this week, I laid eyes upon the travesty that is the 2014 Grand Cherokee.
Presently, I own a 2008 Grand Cherokee, purchased new in 2008. And, I don't think I would be overstating it to say that I love my truck. I love the looks, the ride, the dependability.... I love my Jeep. That being said, I had thought that I might trade up to a newer version this coming year. I can now assure you that such is no longer the case.
What the hell were you thinking?
Jeeps have long appealed to a certain type of auto buyer; those seeking rugged good looks with the ability to handle conditions which leaves competitors in the dust.
My affection for Jeeps goes back decades and I even wrote a post at Ace.mu.nu about the thrill of purchasing my first in 2008.
Now, I am left befuddled and, frankly, hoping that my current Jeep (and my patience) hold out long enough for the NEXT generation of Grand Cherokee to arrive because, frankly, there is simply no way I am going to spend one red cent on the 2014 model.
The 2014 Grand Cherokee could provide a ride so thrilling that only a rocket on rails could compete and I still would not purchase it.
It could possess the ability to pull a Hummer out of waist-deep mud and I still would not purchase it.
Why?
Because you have stripped any evidence of its rugged nature from its appearance. Worse, not only have you feminized it beyond belief, you have done so such a way as to create a devastatingly unattractive vehicle.
It is, put plainly, ugly.
Really, really ugly.
No matter how well it drives/pulls/feels the first thing one must desire about a personal vehicle is its aesthetics and the 2014 version leaves me more than cold. In fact, it leaves me boiling at the notion that Jeep would compromise the integrity of the brand in attempt to, what...appeal more to female-buyers rather than "Jeep" buyers? Well, this female buyer isn't biting.
As my sister remarked upon seeing it, "Well wouldn't that be just precious with some false lashes and a little bit of mascara?"
Indeed.
Here's to hoping that the folks at Jeep will remember their heritage, and their loyal fans, when designing the NEXT generation Grand Cherokee.
Just. Wow!
Sincerely,
A Jeep Owner in Jacksonville

Now, a look back...

As we approach the fifth anniversary of President Obama's signature legislation to make us greener whilst growing the economy, let's take a moment to remember the Cars Allowance Rebate System (CARS), more affectionately known as 'Cash for Clunkers'.

How well did it work out? Not very. This recent article from Mother Nature Network wants, desperately so, to argue for its success but just can't make the case. Indeed, they get props for telling both sides of the story here despite their claim that it "could" be a viable program.

Cash for Clunkers got 700,000 polluters off the road, added $2 billion to the GDP, and created more than 2,000 jobs as it involved nearly every auto dealer in America. The average car clunked had 15.8 mpg combined; the average one bought to replace it had 25.4. This was, and is, exactly the kind of program of government stimulus program that economists like the New York TimesÂ’ Paul Krugman said we needed at the time Â— a persistent recession, which among other things drove car sales down from 11 million annually to 9 million.
Jesse Toprak, vice president at Truecar.com, says that the program Â“accomplished what it set out to do, which was to get consumers back into the showrooms and to jump-start new-vehicle sales.Â”
Could it have been handled better? You bet, and thatÂ’s the conclusion of a new Brookings Institution analysis by Ted Gayer and Emily Parker. They say that Cash for Clunkers...

It's a pretty good article and is worth your time to read it in full.

Still... nothing shows the short-sightedness of the program nor the complete and utter lack of awareness of how the ~~auto market~~ economy works more than this simple video, awe-inspiring if not tear-inducing, for the sinful waste of a functioning, useful piece of machinery.

Years from now I will still look back upon this particular video as the very symbol of failure that was this atrocious piece of legislation.

This week's video is enough to make progressive heads explode. Remember when smokestacks were a symbol of industry and progress in America?

Nope. Nothing exceptional whatsoever about America.

Now, for the moronettes, a classic:

And, for the morons, rock n' roll, cars, and a sassy gal:

See ya next year!

Feel free to send complaints, comments, and suggestions to me at teh Twitter.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:48 PM | Comments (245)
Post contains 843 words, total size 6 kb.

1 So they are trying to make the Aztek feel loved?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 12:51 PM (zb54T)

Nice letter, NDH.

I admire your restraint, in not using any profanity.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 12:53 PM (1ScqE)

3 Cash for Clunkers by destroying engines with caustic chemicals and legally requiring dealers not to recycle parts filled the landfills with even more waste.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 12:54 PM (zb54T)

4 MacGyver drove a jeep. It didn't have doors. Made him look even more badass.

Posted by: Flyguy at December 28, 2013 12:55 PM (p7ikO)

5 Looks like every other SVU.. they are all morphing into that shape.

But.. they will be successful. More and more women want those.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 28, 2013 12:55 PM (b/lt+)

6 That's not a Grand Cherokee, its a Cherokee. This is a Grand Cherokee. http://tinyurl.com/n2zlebr

Posted by: JackStraw at December 28, 2013 12:56 PM (g1DWB)

'Atrocious legislation' is what the Dems do best.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 12:56 PM (1ScqE)

8 I have a 1994 Cherokee...how do you think I feel. The buyer of the 2014 Cherokee wouldn't be caught dead in mine and me in theirs.

Posted by: BobJustBob at December 28, 2013 12:56 PM (0Ed5d)

9 That looks like a Cherokee, not a Grand Cherokee. Granted, the Grand Cherokee doesn't look much better.

Posted by: Wyfaggro at December 28, 2013 12:56 PM (PuwD/)

10 OT, but since there's not OT thread I don't feel too bad.

Had to send my 14 year old shepherd to Valhalla this morning.

The world is down one warrior dog.

Drink a beer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM5aW83L_DE

I'll see you on the other side.

Posted by: tangonine at December 28, 2013 12:57 PM (x3YFz)

11 That Grand Cherokee looks like those butt-ugly crossovers that Buick sells.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 12:58 PM (Ua6T/)

12 Yeah, that pic is definitely a baby Cherokee. And they do look hideous.

Posted by: Hate Miser at December 28, 2013 01:00 PM (2ljO9)

13 That photo is of the new Cherokee, not a Grand Cherokee... Based on the description of the vehicle, it appears NDH pulled up one the letter writer meant, but the GC is certainly still the a workhorse.

Posted by: phreshone at December 28, 2013 01:00 PM (Pr6hk)

14 Posted by: tangonine at December 28, 2013 04:57 PM (x3YFz) Condolences.

Posted by: Vendette at December 28, 2013 01:00 PM (Y6+7w)

15 I stand corrected. I think that is a photo of the Cherokee, rather than the Grand Cherokee, but the one I saw in person was the Grand and it was ugly too.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:01 PM (DmNpO)

Condolences, tango9.

It's rough to lose an old friend.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:01 PM (1ScqE)

17 >>Had to send my 14 year old shepherd to Valhalla this morning. Sorry for your lose.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 28, 2013 01:01 PM (g1DWB)

18 I personally know people who would have been able to buy a new car without a problem who took advantage of Cash for Clunkers just because they could.

Posted by: Vendette at December 28, 2013 01:02 PM (Y6+7w)

19 Well, jeep isn't alone in doing this sort of thing.

Car companies have been clueless about what makes a car a success for decades.

Take the Mustang. Thin, lean stylish. They then loaded it up with crap and added 500 to 1000 lbs and also made it look like crap in the bargain. Ditto GTO or any of the SS pony cars from the '60's.

One thing to keep in mind is that they do design next years cars way before the last one of the previous year gets sold so they can be behind the curve by a few years.

Still. A designer's got to design and repeating a success from the previous year only goes so far.

I bought an '87 ranger. Loved it. On the basis of that went and bought a brand new '03 ranger. Hated it until the day it died.

They just can't help themselves. It's a disease of Car Designers.

They're trying to make us believe we're driving stuff from the future when we're still putting wheels on the pavement.

Plus they're building for different demographics. Which is why they're getting smaller and more rounded. And it's also the fuel standards that limit them too.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:02 PM (LSDdO)

20 And to think, the big dispute about new vs old Jeeps was once "Headlights: Round vs Rectangular"

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 28, 2013 01:03 PM (c2oll)

21 NDH, Perhaps you should snatch up a 2013 model if it is at all possible? I agree the 2014 model looks like it should be a Toureg, or maybe the Volvo 'suburban' model, it does not have the classic Cherokee look at all.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 28, 2013 01:04 PM (ql12X)

22 5 Looks like every other SVU.. they are all morphing into that shape.

I think that's right. The car isn't ugly as such, it's just that it looks like 40 other cars. I've never been a fan of Jeep, so I won't shed any tears for it, and besides, anything GM or Chrysler is simply a non starter. I was listening to the outgoing head of GM on CSPAN an hour ago, and the guy was slick, but everything he said was complete crap, starting with the notion that UAW-shop labor costs are in line with the Southern, nonunion transplants. Also, he tried to maintain that although it looks like taxpayers lost $10B on the GM bailout (it was actually much more), it really saved us $30B because unemployment and pensions and blah blah blah. So really, we should be thanking GM.

Posted by: pep at December 28, 2013 01:05 PM (6TB1Z)

23 6 That's not a Grand Cherokee, its a Cherokee. This is a Grand Cherokee.

http://tinyurl.com/n2zlebr

Posted by: JackStraw at December 28, 2013 04:56 PM (g1DWB)

I beg to differ... http://tinyurl.com/q3sxpld

Posted by: Mingo at December 28, 2013 01:06 PM (rn0EN)

24 Testing

Posted by: pep at December 28, 2013 01:06 PM (6TB1Z)

25 Wups...it suddenly got very white in here.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:07 PM (1ScqE)

26 For a second there, all the comments disappeared.

de do de do de do de do

Dah dah dah dah

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:07 PM (LSDdO)

27 So I was driving home from NH yesterday. Going through the Bedford tolls, one must slow to 25 MPH if you have the EZ Pass transponder. I almost hit the driver in front of me that interpreted that to mean 5 MPH. What is stupider than a Masshole in Prius? A genius from VT driving 'Smart' car.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:08 PM (Ua6T/)

28 Well, there's always the SRT8 Grand Cherokee if you're wanting something a little more badass.

Just a liiiiiiiiiiiitle bit more costly, though.

Posted by: Hate Miser at December 28, 2013 01:08 PM (2ljO9)

29 Have to admit that the GC looks ugly in white...

Posted by: phreshone at December 28, 2013 01:09 PM (Pr6hk)

30 Hah! A Eurojeep trying to look like a Cadillac.

Posted by: Fritz at December 28, 2013 01:09 PM (TKFmG)

31 Have to admit that the GC looks ugly in white... *** It's much less attractive in person.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:10 PM (DmNpO)

32 I could be a greenie plot to have all vehicles look the same so that they can do away with the choice of cars so no one feels demeaned by what they drive.

you know. socialist utopia and all that.

One style family car, one style utility car, ~~one style fun car~~ nope no fun car in a socialist utopia.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:10 PM (LSDdO)

33 26: I think that was the side effect of NDH changing pics to have an actual Grand Cherokee, which is definitely ugly, more so than the baby Cherokee picture which was sissified and generic looking but not quite so butt ugly IMO.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 28, 2013 01:10 PM (ql12X)

34 ...you have done so such a way as to create a devastatingly unattractive vehicle... {*Whew!*} The sound of the Pontiac Aztek, gladly relinquishing its seat as "Most Unattractive Vehicle, Ever!"

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/b] [/s] at December 28, 2013 01:11 PM (HsTG8)

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 05:08 PM (Ua6T/)

In Texas there is no slowing down with either 'TollTag' in North Texas or TxTag in Houston. In fact, they'll just send you a bill if you don't have the tag (but at a 50% premium)

Posted by: phreshone at December 28, 2013 01:12 PM (Pr6hk)

36 The sound of the Pontiac Aztek, gladly relinquishing its seat as "Most Unattractive Vehicle, Ever!"

Not even close. The Aztec looked like it was designed by Helen Keller.

Posted by: pep at December 28, 2013 01:12 PM (6TB1Z)

37 >>>31 Have to admit that the GC looks ugly in white...
***
It's much less attractive in person.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:10 PM (DmNpO)<<<

HOW dare you?

Posted by: Suckagawea Waren at December 28, 2013 01:12 PM (2ljO9)

38 Good thread NDH. Cherokee 4x4 or soccer moms vehicle. Ugh. I like my 98 Chevy 4x4 pick up

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:12 PM (HVff2)

39 What cracks me up about the SUV's, RTV's, UTV's is that they all LOOK tall but have less road clearance.

One of the good things about a truck or utility vehicle is their height above the surface.

It's how you get OVER stuff.

These days most of them couldn't climb a curb without scrapping something.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:13 PM (LSDdO)

40 That's hideous NDH. I never would have guessed either of those models were of the Jeep line. Blech.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:14 PM (JpFMR)

41 Cash for Clunkers was the Krugtron Broken Window Fallacy writ large. An economy never profits by the systematic destruction of valuable assets.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 28, 2013 01:14 PM (N1dAS)

42 Posted by: tangonine at December 28 Sorry about your loss. I like dogs better than most people

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:14 PM (HVff2)

43 Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 05:14 PM (HVff2)

From your nic, somehow we knew that.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:15 PM (LSDdO)

44 >>> In Texas there is no slowing down with either 'TollTag' in North Texas or TxTag in Houston. NH has that on 2 of 3 toll roads. Massachusetts, where toll taker is a career job, probably does not.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:16 PM (Ua6T/)

45 On a side note, it's good to see somebody finally got the opportunity to knock up that blondie Simpson chick, - a ring and a couple of kids.

Posted by: Fritz at December 28, 2013 01:16 PM (TKFmG)

46 That Jeep is perfect for picking up a pallet of pajamas and hot chocolate.

Posted by: eman at December 28, 2013 01:16 PM (EWsrI)

47 Even though the 2014 refresh isn't as good looking (damn audi style lights)... you can get it with the 3.0L turbo diesel... 28+mpg highway, more torque than the Hemi

Posted by: phreshone at December 28, 2013 01:16 PM (Pr6hk)

48 I do think that the fiat 500 commercial is cute. Little sexist in the back seat

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:18 PM (HVff2)

49 >>> I like my 98 Chevy 4x4 pick up I saw a Chevy Tahoe on a lift kit yesterday. It looked too clean and out of place. Maybe the owner got it dirty later on.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:18 PM (Ua6T/)

50 UFC fight in a couple hours. Pretty excited. UFC also expected to officially launch their new digital network at a 6 pm news conference. UFC Fight Pass is the name. UFC and WWE both are launching subscription digital networks this year. Media landscape is changing in interesting ways.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 28, 2013 01:20 PM (ZPrif)

51 On a side note, it's good to see somebody finally got the opportunity to knock up that blondie Simpson chick, - a ring and a couple of kids.
Posted by: Fritz

Yeah, I always like to see folks get on with the important things in life, and not sidetracked on the fame gerbil wheel. She got heavy for awhile, and IMO looked quite bodacious.

Posted by: pep at December 28, 2013 01:20 PM (6TB1Z)

That 1st video is hard to watch...

It took a long time for that poor car to die.

Reminded me of that scene in Star Wars, where they were torturing the droids.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:21 PM (1ScqE)

53 Yes, take the Mustang. I loved the 05-09 body style, but wasn't too crazy about the 10-12, and it was bigger than the Fox or the SN95 that followed. The 10-12 grew on me (I own an 11) but then the 13/14 had a front end I wasn't too crazy about. The new generation is smaller, but they are part of the Europeanization of the Ford line up, and I hateses it (the Europeanization, that is). If you want a Eurotrash car buy a f'n BMW, leave the Mustang alone. Just my opinion.

As far as the 15 goes, I'm not crazy about the rear window shape and I wish they had left the scoop indent in front of the rear wheels, but the rest of it...I don't know, I think I'll have to see one in person to decide for sure. I'm not ready to trade my 11 in yet at any rate.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:22 PM (yh0zB)

54 Cash for clunkers really fucked up the used car market.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:22 PM (HVff2)

55 Sorry for your loss Tangonine.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 28, 2013 01:23 PM (ql12X)

56 CfC fucked up the used parts market as well

Posted by: phreshone at December 28, 2013 01:24 PM (Pr6hk)

I have a similar problem with Ford. I own a 1990 F350 4x4 which I bought brand new. I also own a 2006 F350 4x4 which I bought brand new. Looking at the 2014 Super Duty I just had to laugh.

They don't offer a manual transmission or a gas V-10 anymore and have completely screwed up the front suspension. So if you want any power at all you have to buy the diesel with automatic transmission. Ugh. And expensive......... I have dubbed them the Super Doody.

Posted by: wth at December 28, 2013 01:24 PM (wAQA5)

58 That 1st video is hard to watch... It took a long time for that poor car to die. Reminded me of that scene in Star Wars, where they were torturing the droids. *** I would have rather the government give the damn cars away for free than to destroy them. Imagine how much that car would have meant to someone catching the bus in the rain and snow. It was a sinful level of waste of machinery and resources.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:24 PM (DmNpO)

59 54 Cash for clunkers really fucked up the used car market.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 05:22 PM (HVff2)

Mission Accomplished.

Posted by: UAW at December 28, 2013 01:24 PM (rn0EN)

60 Cash for Clunkers was absurd. A buddy of mine has been a finance manager for multiple dealerships. "Yeah, great, you got older cars off the road. Congrats. You just price a whole shit load of people out of car ownership."

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:25 PM (JpFMR)

61 They're selling everyone they can build, at lightspeed. I like 'em.

Posted by: dick at December 28, 2013 01:26 PM (GrtrJ)

62 "Yeah, great, you got older cars off the road. Congrats. You just price a whole shit load of people out of car ownership." *** Exactly.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:26 PM (DmNpO)

63 Newman was 54 when that picture taken. The Chevy film: When men were men. I'd like to see Pajama Boy working that crank forge. For the rail fans, if there are any, you probably noted that the loco's were Heislers, lateral V-twins.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:28 PM (aDwsi)

64 And, if you look at the graphs in the article, the number one brand of car that was traded in was Toyota. First, Toyota's aren't exactly known for being gas-guzzlers. Second, they were still running because they last forever.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:28 PM (DmNpO)

65 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:24 PM (DmNpO) The money spent on CfC you could have given the poor & down trodden a flipping car

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:29 PM (HVff2)

66 The Chevy film: When men were men. I'd like to see Pajama Boy working that crank forge. For the rail fans, if there are any, you probably noted that the loco's were Heislers, lateral V-twins. *** I love that film. It's about the grit and perseverance of America.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:29 PM (DmNpO)

67 "Yeah, great, you got older cars off the road. Congrats. You just price a whole shit load of people out of car ownership."
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 05:25 PM (JpFMR)

I'm thinking that was not a bug for the fucks who wrote the law.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at December 28, 2013 01:29 PM (IPz9m)

68 >>This recent article from Mother Nature Network Link? Not that we'll click it or anything, but still, I demand a link not to click.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 28, 2013 01:30 PM (SUKHu)

69 {*Whew!*} The sound of the Pontiac Aztek, gladly relinquishing its seat as "Most Unattractive Vehicle, Ever!" Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling StarsÂ™ at December 28, 2013 05:11 PM Nope. I think the Aztek still takes first.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 01:30 PM (teFlO)

70 It was a sinful level of waste of machinery and resources.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:24 PM (DmNpO)

Made even more so by seeing some of the cars that were destroyed (the two that stand out in my mind are a 7 series BMW and a 'vette). Meanwhile, I had a POS 92 Pontiac Grand Am and a bigger POS 82 Dodge Rampage, and neither one of them qualified for the CfC guidelines...wtf??? (both too old, FWIW)

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:30 PM (yh0zB)

71 Tango - Sorry my friend. Allergies acting up just to write this. I know the feeling...

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:31 PM (aDwsi)

72 Nope. I think the Aztek still takes first.

The Aztek took ugly to a metaphysical level previously unknown to humans.

Posted by: pep at December 28, 2013 01:31 PM (6TB1Z)

58...It was a sinful level of waste of machinery and resources.

Exactly so, NDH.

"A sinful level of waste"...This can be said of the entirety of this administration.

Or..."Let's Fuck Up The Country And Call It 'Reform'".

I pray that our country survives the Zero Years.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:32 PM (1ScqE)

74 69 The sound of the Pontiac Aztek, gladly relinquishing its seat as "Most Unattractive Vehicle, Ever!" Maybe I'm dating myself, but, anyone ever see an AMC Pacer? Or Grmlin?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:32 PM (HVff2)

75 Where did the thread go?

Posted by: Weirddave at December 28, 2013 01:32 PM (N/cFh)

76 The grand cherokee is chic. I've got to talk mommy and daddy into buying one for me as long as it comes with a built in hot chocolate maker and seat warmers to heat up my pj's. All the guys will be so jealous.

Posted by: pj boy pouting at December 28, 2013 01:32 PM (hpgw1)

77 Second, they were still running because they last forever.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:28 PM (DmNpO)

Top Gear (the brit one) attempted unsuccessfully to destroy a 4WD Toyota pickup. They blew it up, dropped it off of cliffs, drowned it, crushed it and even burned it...and it would not die.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:33 PM (yh0zB)

78 3 Cash for Clunkers by destroying engines with caustic chemicals and legally requiring dealers not to recycle parts filled the landfills with even more waste. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 04:54 PM (zb54T) Really. Junkyards are most certainly a form of recycling, and a very good one at that. Cash for Clunkers reduced the number of used cars on the market, thus increasing the prices of the ones that remained. This directly hurt the poorest buyers in the car market. Although, if the real intent was to reduce the number of people driving cars and force the poorest into public transportation, then I guess you could call it a success.

Posted by: rickl at December 28, 2013 01:33 PM (sdi6R)

79 This recent article from Mother Nature Network Link? Not that we'll click it or anything, but still, I demand a link not to click. *** thanks for bringing it to my attention. I messed up the link there.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:33 PM (DmNpO)

80 speaking of cars, tonight I'll be watching Richie Cunningham's RUSH I'll give my opinion of it tomorrow.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 01:34 PM (b1O1M)

81 Anybody else lose the post there for a minute?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:35 PM (JpFMR)

82 The sole positve consequence of Cash for Clunkers: Thousands of Obama bumper stickers off the road.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:35 PM (aDwsi)

83 We now return to our regulae programming.

Posted by: itchytriggerfinger at December 28, 2013 01:35 PM (XwN3V)

84 >>> Where did the thread go? I thought NDH was flushing the mindless drivel, but my comments are still in place,

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:36 PM (Ua6T/)

85 Maybe I'm dating myself, but, anyone ever see an AMC Pacer? Or Grmlin?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 05:32 PM (HVff2)

uh...no, never seen either one of them...don't know what an AMC Eagle is either...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:36 PM (yh0zB)

86 Anybody else lose the post there for a minute? *** I apologize. I had to repair the link to the CfC article.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:36 PM (DmNpO)

87 Please don't fix me again

Posted by: The Thread at December 28, 2013 01:36 PM (rn0EN)

88 Aaaaannddd, we have Jeep ads.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:37 PM (Ua6T/)

89 81 Anybody else lose the post there for a minute? Yep. I was wondering if Ace was a fan of the new Grand Cherokee

Posted by: itchytriggerfinger at December 28, 2013 01:38 PM (XwN3V)

90 From the wonderful link that wonderful NDH provided for us: >>Cost as much as $1.4 million per every job created Lovely. Just lovely.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 28, 2013 01:39 PM (SUKHu)

91 Do you realize how difficult it is to argue with the mindset that believes every $ of govt spending is exactly equivalent to a $ of GDP expansion? I mean, this type of simplistic inaccurate bullshit is precisely why we're losing to the Big Govt Totalitarians.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 01:39 PM (b1O1M)

92 Dodge Omni? Anyone? Plymouth Horizon? Bueller?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:39 PM (aDwsi)

They've come a long way since the Willis Jeep.

That show, 'Wheeler Dealers', did an episode about a restoration of an old Willis Jeep.

It was heartening to watch Ed China's hands at work on it, respectfully caressing it and giving it a new life in the UK.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:40 PM (1ScqE)

94 Maybe I'm dating myself, but, anyone ever see an AMC Pacer? Or Grmlin? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian You bet. My brother owned an ugly green Gremlin. I was terrified it was going be handed down to me. Yet, knowing they made the Pacer and Gremlin should have been enough reason not to design the Aztek.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 01:41 PM (teFlO)

95 Dodge Omni? Anyone? Plymouth Horizon?
Bueller?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 05:39 PM (aDwsi)

Dodge Rampage. Same chassis.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:41 PM (yh0zB)

96 Do you realize how difficult it is to argue with the mindset that believes every $ of govt spending is exactly equivalent to a $ of GDP expansion? ------------- Simply explain that every dollar spent by the government costs the economy $1.64.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:41 PM (aDwsi)

97 Maybe I'm dating myself, but, anyone ever see an AMC Pacer? Or Grmlin?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 05:32 PM (HVff2)

I owned a Plymouth Horizon or Dodge Omni (I forget which). That's close right?

If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:41 PM (LSDdO)

98 Elizabeth Warren is a grand Cherokee.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 28, 2013 01:42 PM (4vQmk)

99 Who the hell needs a girly Jeep! I bought (still have) a 2006 Liberty but they ruined that car by 2008 so I wont be repeating. Thought about upgrading to a Cherokee but for sure it wont be the 2014! Also loved the Dukes of Hazzard. I lived in Georgia for 18 years and the movie was only slightly over the top

They wrecked alot of vintage Chargers making that movie.

Posted by: small town girl in wyoming at December 28, 2013 01:42 PM (TCmPs)

100 The burden on Us is providing the counterargument to an idiotic oversimplified premise. It takes a lot of time and effort to explain to the average Dumb Voter the basics of economics and a balance sheet. The Left knows this is an impossible task. And this is why our Rendezvous With Destiny is now fascism.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 01:42 PM (b1O1M)

101 Simply explain that every dollar spent by the government costs the economy $1.64. Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 05:41 PM (aDwsi) *sniff* Liar. And they consider the argument over. You can offer whatever facts you want, they'll claim you're lying and that's the end of that for them.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:42 PM (JpFMR)

102 They've come a long way since the Willis Jeep. ** pssssst **

Posted by: Willys at December 28, 2013 01:42 PM (Ua6T/)

103 If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base? Posted by: Bitter Clinger ------------------ Instruction available on the ONT.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:43 PM (aDwsi)

104 Anybody else lose the post there for a minute? *** As ugly as the Grand Cherokee is, I now think the Cherokee is even uglier.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:43 PM (DmNpO)

105 The new Cherokee is not only fugly, its rollout has been delayed a number of times due to transmission and powertrain software bugs.

Posted by: Heh at December 28, 2013 01:44 PM (U4z8a)

106 Also loved the Dukes of Hazzard. I lived in Georgia for 18 years and the movie was only slightly over the top They wrecked alot of vintage Chargers making that movie. Posted by: small town girl in wyoming at December 28, 2013 05:42 PM (TCmPs) Loved the show. Loved the car. I own a 1968 Dodge Charger, which is only 1 year off the DoH car. Only real noticeable difference is shape of taillights.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:44 PM (JpFMR)

107 Simply explain that every dollar spent by the government costs the economy $1.64. That does not compute! And now You're the dummy.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 01:45 PM (b1O1M)

108 103 If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base? You have won today's internet.

Posted by: fluffy at December 28, 2013 01:45 PM (Ua6T/)

109

*testing*

Damn autocorrect. ...I typed Willys and it changed it.

Posted by: wheatie at December 28, 2013 01:45 PM (1ScqE)

110 Like everything else, they're trying to make us hate everything about America. (or not care about it anymore I know I'm losing my sense of outrage.)

They're succeeding in some areas.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:45 PM (LSDdO)

111 The new Cherokee is not only fugly, its rollout has been delayed a number of times due to transmission and powertrain software bugs. *** And ever buy the first-year model of a new design. In my eagerness to see/buy the new GC, I almost forgot that rule.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:46 PM (DmNpO)

112 All during 2009-2012 a lot of you kept saying "don't worry, math will win the day." Guess what? No it won't. Math, like Truth, is irrelevant today.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (b1O1M)

113

Only real noticeable difference is shape of taillights.

'69 had a split grill, which I didn't care for.

Posted by: Ronster at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (Rru72)

114

Because you have stripped any evidence of its rugged nature from its appearance. Worse, not only have you feminized it beyond belief, you have done so such a way as to create a devastatingly unattractive vehicle.

It is, put plainly, ugly.

Really, really ugly.

I saw an ad for this monstrosity during the Rutgers/Notre Dame bowl game this afternoon ... and I gasped at the appearance. NDH, thanks for putting that gasp into words so well.

I grew up with - and sometimes in - a Cherokee. (I don't remember how Grand it was or wasn't.) During lean times we would camp in it. It was so cool that the Cherokee could drive into bootleg campsites anywhere at all, and certainly far from where lower-clearance vehicles would dare go. Yeah, it squeaked and rattled and burned oil. But I've never owned anywhere near as good an off-road vehicle as that Cherokee. And it looked the part, too.

Now it's a soccer-mom-mobile. Pity.

Posted by: crisis du jour at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (QHUpb)

115 95 Dodge Omni? Anyone? Plymouth Horizon? Bueller? Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 05:39 PM (aDwsi) See them every once in a while around these parts. Wife and I used to just yell out "Omni" or "Horizon" when we would see one. Kids thought we were nuts

Posted by: itchytriggerfinger at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (XwN3V)

116 As far as I'm concerned, any "Off Road" vehicle that has software is not an Off Road Vehicle.

It's a marketing ploy. Sadly and tragically, there will be some who think they can off road in these things.

Over/under in how far "off road" you can take one of these pussies?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (LSDdO)

117 It looks like the 2014 Cherokee is trying to be my 2013 Ford Explorer. It seems like a strange aesthetic to chase. It was a quick fall from off-road capable to mall parking lot capable. It just looks fragile.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 28, 2013 01:47 PM (XLoA6)

118 If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 05:41 PM (LSDdO)

http://youtu.be/GMQzfncqOQc

(Don't look surprised, you knew it was coming)

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:48 PM (yh0zB)

119 If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base? *** Well, you could hope for the next two batters to succeed you will each hit a single, or that the next batter will hit a double but, preferably, you will hit a triple on your first time at bat.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:48 PM (DmNpO)

120 Guess what? No it won't. Math, like Truth, is irrelevant today. Nuts.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2013 01:48 PM (Bcm4u)

121 >>>If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base?<<<

This was covered on the blog 10 years ago... It requires some high quality lubricants, - at least two, - a cheater bar and a pharmaceutical cocktail that makes roofies look like Flintstones' vitamins.

Posted by: Fritz at December 28, 2013 01:49 PM (TKFmG)

122 Nuts. That wasn't supposed to post...

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2013 01:49 PM (Bcm4u)

123 '69 had a split grill, which I didn't care for. Posted by: Ronster at December 28, 2013 05:47 PM (Rru72) Nice catch.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:50 PM (JpFMR)

124 It looks like the 2014 Cherokee is trying to be my 2013 Ford Explorer. It seems like a strange aesthetic to chase. It was a quick fall from off-road capable to mall parking lot capable. It just looks fragile. *** How do you like your Explorer? I drove the 2007 version for a weekend before deciding once and for all on the Jeep and, frankly, I hated it. It looked terrific and drove nicely, but the ergonomics were for crap. It just felt as if every single thing I reached for was somewhere it shouldn't have been.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:51 PM (DmNpO)

125 The 2014 Jeep headlights look like eyelashes

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at December 28, 2013 01:51 PM (e8kgV)

126 What is with the headlights on the 2014 Jeep ? *** ~~She's~~ It's winking at you.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:51 PM (DmNpO)

127 I saw a 69 Charger in Lenoir the last time I went up there that was NOT painted orange, nor did it have a Rebel flag on the top.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:52 PM (yh0zB)

128 I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee with a little over 76K on it. I plan to keep it for a long while yet. Although you are correct that the new ones are ugly, I will never buy a Chrysler or GM product again for reasons that should be obvious. And I live in the metro Detroit area.

Posted by: Bill R. at December 28, 2013 01:52 PM (QnRSM)

129

Once again, the Obama adminstration screwed the young by taking a lot of old clunkers off the road. Those are the cars you can afford when you're in your late teens and early '20's off the road unless you're Pajama Boy from Chicago's Gold Coast and got a new sports car on your 16th birthday.

And yet the youth voted for him again in '12. Some of them had to put the Obama bumper sticker on their knapsack instead of their (non-existent because unaffordable) car, so everyone on the bus could admire it.

Posted by: Donna V. at December 28, 2013 01:52 PM (R3gO3)

130 81 Anybody else lose the post there for a minute? Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 05:35 PM (JpFMR) Yup, but it's back I think or my meds have me goofy

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:52 PM (HVff2)

131 Picture it with a set of these: http://www.eyelashes4cars.com/

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:53 PM (DmNpO)

132 http://www.eyelashes4cars.com/ *curbstomps*

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 28, 2013 01:54 PM (JpFMR)

133 I had a1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee that threw a rod about 6 miles from the dealer I as it was on it's way to being traded in. Instead of $3500, they gave me $500

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at December 28, 2013 01:54 PM (e8kgV)

134 The wussification of America.

Next up:

Railroad Locomotives with rounded edges, headlight wipers, sunshade vanity mirrors and a horn that goes beep beep.

Oh and a bud vase on the dash.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:54 PM (LSDdO)

135 These days I just start with the assumption that I'm not going to buy anything from an American auto manufacturer. I don't think I can go wrong with that philosophy.

Incidentally, whenever I see a modern Cadillac, I have a hard time determining whether it's a Caddy or just a run of the mill Chevy... until I see the hood emblem. Seriously, what's the difference between a Cadillac sedan and a Chevy Malibu?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 28, 2013 01:55 PM (BeSEI)

136 That Cherokee--or whatever it is, looks like the love child resulting from miscegenation (ooh racist word there--Jesse Jackson will be all over me like flies on meadow muffins) and an illicit relationship between a Ford Explorer and a GMC Arcadia. What were the boys at Chrysler Jeep thinking?

Posted by: Comanche Voter at December 28, 2013 01:55 PM (VAche)

137 It's winking at you. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse --------------- Heh. One of my cousins had a '64 Stingray Coupe. Dark Green, 365 hp 327. One of the headlight actuaters failed..., it looked just like it was winking at you as it came down the road. One lens open, the other closed.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 28, 2013 01:55 PM (aDwsi)

138 The young lady in the Dukes / ACDC video is good looking and seems healthy.

MOAR.

Posted by: Bob (codename: Sayuri) at December 28, 2013 01:56 PM (ImIys)

139 I want my flying car
http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/selection-du-weekend-68-21.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 01:56 PM (zb54T)

140 118 If you're dating yourself, how do you get to 3rd base? Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 05:41 PM (LSDdO) http://youtu.be/GMQzfncqOQc (Don't look surprised, you knew it was coming) Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 05:48 PM (yh0zB) Woody Allen, nothing wrong with masturbation, at least it's sex with someone I love. & I still think Pacers are ugly :-)

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 01:56 PM (HVff2)

141 How do you like your Explorer? I love it. The week I bought it*, I loaded up my family, bike and all of our luggage and drove all over Colorado, Wyoming and South Dakota. Great on the highway. The rear facing camera was a feature I didn't know was required...until I had it. The electronics were handy, w/o being a distraction. Ford is making really good cars right now. *I traded in a 2004 Volvo XC90. Volvo are not the cars they used to be.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 28, 2013 01:56 PM (XLoA6)

142 That's what back in the '60's they called the "White Flash".

That's when you took a trip so far yet so fast that it was over before it started.

I always thought it was just a dealer's way of explaining why nothing happened to the 'heads.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:57 PM (LSDdO)

143 That's not a Jeep....

THIS

http://preview.tinyurl.com/oewv8u9

is a Jeep
-----------------

New vehicles look pretty much all alike now---like oversized FisherPrice toys and sometimes available in the same garish colors!

Posted by: JeanQ at December 28, 2013 01:57 PM (82lr7)

144 It's a pretty good article

It's utter fucking nonsense and everybody involved should be time travel deported to 30s Siberia.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at December 28, 2013 01:57 PM (DL2i+)

145 I'm with the Saudis. Perhaps some women shouldn't be allowed to drive. http://bit.ly/1cdqe81

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 01:57 PM (DmNpO)

146 Picture it with a set of these: http://www.eyelashes4cars.com/

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:53 PM (DmNpO)

Why would you do this to a poor defenseless automobile?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 01:57 PM (yh0zB)

147 132 Picture it with a set of these: http://www.eyelashes4cars.com/ Eek! They had a pair on a Jeep Wrangler. Wrong. Just wrong.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 01:58 PM (teFlO)

148 Posted by: BurtTC at December 28, 2013 05:55 PM (BeSEI)

About 15 grand.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 01:58 PM (LSDdO)

149 Anyone out there have experience with the Ford Transit Connect? Mrs. Chronda is talking about a new vehicle. The concern is schlepping the mother-in-law around; she's scooter-bound. We took her on a trip last year, for which we rented an SUV. Had a heck of a time getting her into and out of the thing, because of the height; it was actually much easier to get her into and out of my little Civic. I've had my eye on the Transit Connect for a while, thought being that since it's low, it shouldn't be much harder to get her into and out of that than my Civic. Add a hoist on the back for her scooter, and we should be shiny.

Posted by: Anachronda at December 28, 2013 01:59 PM (ddb4x)

150 filled the landfills with even more waste.

And landfills (which we have plenty of good space in) are a great place to put stuff til there's another profitable use for it.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at December 28, 2013 01:59 PM (DL2i+)

151 The Cherokee is supposed to be the boxier, utilitarian looking 4x4 that you wouldn't mind throwing a lift kit on and big mudder tires, take off roading, and have fun in.

The Grand Cherokee is the softer, more "refined" SUV that can get you through whatever weather comes your way, but pretty much lives on civilized roads.

This new Cherokee looks softer than the Grand. Perfect for cradling your mom jean covered backside on the way to Whole Foods.

Shouldn't be called a Cherokee. If they called it a Santa Fe or Murano, no one would care. But to put the Cherokee badging back on that "truck" is really sad.

Posted by: Hate Miser at December 28, 2013 02:01 PM (2ljO9)

152 146 I'm with the Saudis. Perhaps some women shouldn't be allowed to drive. http://bit.ly/1cdqe81 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 05:57 PM (DmNpO) Death penalty worthy

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 02:01 PM (HVff2)

153 Seriously, what's the difference between a Cadillac sedan and a Chevy Malibu?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 28, 2013 05:55 PM (BeSEI)

The price tag.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:01 PM (yh0zB)

154 Shouldn't be called a Cherokee. If they called it a Santa Fe or Murano, no one would care. But to put the Cherokee badging back on that "truck" is really sad. *** Yes. It is sad.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:02 PM (DmNpO)

155 Thanks for the kind thoughts, folks. As critter caretakers you know it's going to happen eventually. Till Valhalla.

Posted by: tangonine at December 28, 2013 02:02 PM (x3YFz)

156 149 -

That's an awfully expensive hood ornament.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 28, 2013 02:02 PM (BeSEI)

157 Cadillac lost every shred of dignity it ever had when it agreed to put its badge on a Cavalier. Once it is gone...well, it's kind of like what they call you if you suck just ONE cock...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:05 PM (yh0zB)

158 150 Anyone out there have experience with the Ford Transit Connect? No. But it could take a run at the Aztek and Pacer for #1 ugly. However, it sounds like you more function than form. My mom had bad knees and when family wanted to take her for car ride they borrowed my X5. Not too low. Not to tall.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:05 PM (teFlO)

159 92 Dodge Omni? Anyone? Plymouth Horizon? I see a Dodge Omni driving around town every now and then. Always startles me "what? it's still going?"

Posted by: Anachronda at December 28, 2013 02:05 PM (RFl8c)

160 I foresaw a lot of bad things happening with this administration but I admit I never saw the blatent destruction of the American automobile industry/market on the horizen. And that was one of the first things.

Posted by: small town girl in wyoming at December 28, 2013 02:06 PM (UOnC3)

161 Heh...that Volvo I traded in had a funny malfunction: The seat heater element burned through the side bolster of the drivers seat...my wife reported smelling something funny...I looked at the seat, it was all crunchy. She's skinny, so she didn't get burned. Volvo, (Safest Car In The WORLD!!) actually tried to get me to foot the bill. ME: "So my Volvo, (S.C.I.T.World!), can set my ass on fire?? And YOU want ME to fucking pay for it?!!" Service Manager: "We'll fix it for free..."

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 28, 2013 02:07 PM (XLoA6)

162 And... on the photo of the white elephant aka Grand Cherokee... why does it look like there is a tow strap on the front end? Did it break down on the way to the photo-shoot?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:07 PM (zb54T)

163 Oh wait, just the weeds in the foreground messing up things. So who was the photographer? Never heard of Photoshop?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:08 PM (zb54T)

164 Cadillac lost every shred of dignity it ever had when it agreed to put its badge on a Cavalier. Once it is gone...well, it's kind of like what they call you if you suck just ONE cock... **** One of the biggest WTF were they thinking! ever

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:08 PM (DmNpO)

165 There is no way I'm going to register so I can comment at Mother Nature Network but is somebody going to bring it to their attention that Krugman's approval is a sure sign that a political initiative is a really, really bad idea?

Cash for Clunkers was an utter joke from an environmental standpoint, and it was garbage even from a Keynesian perspective. The only thing stimulated was a sector that didn't need stimulation. Car sales were down by a couple million units? In the worst economic period of my adult life? Shock, surprise. How to fix it? Could we start by not making things worse by using tax dollars and debt to give gifts to the UAW and their cronies?

Posted by: Epobirs at December 28, 2013 02:08 PM (bPxS6)

166 The wussification of America. Next up: Railroad Locomotives with rounded edges, headlight wipers, sunshade vanity mirrors and a horn that goes beep beep. Oh and a bud vase on the dash. That pretty much happened when the diesel-electric locomotives replaced steam.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2013 02:09 PM (Bcm4u)

167 Never heard of Photoshop?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 06:08 PM (zb54T)

or Toro?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:09 PM (yh0zB)

168 Oh wait, just the weeds in the foreground messing up things. So who was the photographer? Never heard of Photoshop? *** The are, I suppose, trying to show it off in its natural habitat

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:10 PM (DmNpO)

169 Saw lashes on a car the other day. My friend wants the new Grand Cherokee. She has a 06 Durango and for her that would work, as it has the best gas mileage. Now, while she was looking at that car I was scoping out the Wranglers which she doesn't like. I have an 07 FJ which I love but next year is the last year for that car and I will need something new in the next couple of years.

Posted by: California Witch at December 28, 2013 02:10 PM (Xcvk0)

170 >>>And... on the photo of the white elephant aka Grand Cherokee... why does it look like there is a tow strap on the front end? Did it break down on the way to the photo-shoot?<<<

Heh. Looks like a few blades of grass or weeds, right in front of the camera as they stalk the beast on that paved savannah trail.

Posted by: Hate Miser at December 28, 2013 02:10 PM (2ljO9)

171 That pretty much happened when the diesel-electric locomotives replaced steam.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2013 06:09 PM (Bcm4u)

Oh please. The J class N&W is the most beautiful railroad locomotive ever produced, ever, by anyone. By comparison the GP series, from the GP7 on up to the GP40, are not handsome locomotives.

The EMD locos, on the other hand...they were rather rounded, weren't they?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:12 PM (yh0zB)

172 Cadillac lost every shred of dignity it ever had when it agreed to put its badge on a Cavalier. ***** No redemption for the Escalade? I thought it was classy.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:12 PM (teFlO)

173 So did Marlin Perkins send Jim in to snap the pictures of the wild beast?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:12 PM (zb54T)

174 The Cherokee, yeah that's very bad. It will sell in the urban NE and CA though, and they can have them.

Posted by: Meremortal, in 4 wheel low at December 28, 2013 02:13 PM (1Y+hH)

175 Norfolk and Western J class...haven't upgraded to the platinum yet, so no ampersands for me...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:14 PM (yh0zB)

176 Oh please. The J class NW is the most beautiful railroad locomotive ever produced, ever, by anyone. By comparison the GP series, from the GP7 on up to the GP40, are not handsome locomotives. The EMD locos, on the other hand...they were rather rounded, weren't they? *** I see we have a foamer amongst us.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:14 PM (DmNpO)

177 Got a 1991 jeep wrangler for Christmas, private party sale. The guy we bought it from was jimmy Stewart, right out of its a wonderful life. Had 6 kids under 15, had lost his landscape business due to rheumatoid arthritis at the age of 35. Foreclosed house, renting now. A really good looking man and beautiful family. It was his fathers hunting vehicle, and it appeared to be well maintained (except for some electrical grounding issues he made known). Rugged. Good looking. Well cared for. It became clear to me after settling the transaction in his home that this man was desperate. He was trying to remake himself as a teacher, but had a journey before him to get the requisite credentials. There is no doubt in my mind that he is example #1 of the lower middle class being crushed to death under this administration. During the time we were test driving and purchasing the jeep, a snow storm was intensifying, and was peaking during our tag team drive home, 60 miles away. We got it 30 miles, and smack in the middle of the two lane hi way, dark and snowing, the jeep just up and died. We believe wiring issues related to the fuel pump. It started right up after we filled the tank, though it had a 1/2 tank of gas when it failed. Or perhaps a bowed tank. We got it home and to the mechanic for the big once over and he confirmed it was a well maintained rig but wiring issues can be a bugger to identify and fix. We'll see. Regardless, I know this man's Christmas was made because of this sale. I could see the relief in his eyes. Somehow, I know things will turn out right. Bells rang and an angel got his wings. I'm sure of it.

Posted by: Derak at December 28, 2013 02:14 PM (uRdN/)

178 so no ampersands for me... Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 06:14 PM (yh0zB) You can has some of mine. &&&&&&&&

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:15 PM (teFlO)

179 No redemption for the Escalade? I thought it was classy. *** Individual vehicles have been nice, but they really screwed the pooch on that Cimarron.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:15 PM (DmNpO)

180 "Remember when smokestacks were a symbol of industry and progress in America?"

Now, whenever any network, including Fox, wants to show pollution, they grab a photo of condensate from a cooling tower. That "white smoke" they show is almost always water vapor. It just comes pouring out, and gradually evaporates into nothingness, totally unlike real smoke.

Posted by: MechDoc at December 28, 2013 02:15 PM (IZJA5)

181 Yes, it's ugly. Jeeps are very popular around here, but we've had more than one person tell us they'd rather buy a used 2011 than this hideous thing. We've been really happy with the 2011. We did a head-to-head comparison with a new 2010 (hoping we'd like the 2010 b/c it would have been cheaper) and it was like night and day, especially in terms of ride quality, but also the interior trim. The 2011 also turns on a dime, for a fairly large vehicle. Only wish we could have afforded the Overland version before they effed up the styling.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at December 28, 2013 02:16 PM (zDsvJ)

182 Pajama Boy wanted a Jeep. What's so hard to understand here?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at December 28, 2013 02:17 PM (EKiYg)

183 No redemption for the Escalade? I thought it was classy.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 06:12 PM (teFlO)

No. Cadillac should not make trucks. Ever. It's f'n stupid.

To be fair, Cadillac does NOT make trucks, any more than Lincoln does - another mistake IMO - Chevy makes them and Cadillac puts their names on them...you would have thought they would have learned.

This, BTW, illustrates perfectly what I've always said about the term "SUV". It was created by the advertising department to get women and girly men to drive trucks.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:17 PM (yh0zB)

184 Individual vehicles have been nice, but they really screwed the pooch on that Cimarron. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse Agreed and duly noted.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:17 PM (teFlO)

185 There is no doubt in my mind that he is example #1 of the lower middle class being crushed to death under this administration. Gosh damn right. That's why for the life of me I cant understand why the R's arent seizing on this. oh wait, now I remember..

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:18 PM (b1O1M)

186 I have a relative getting ready to sell the real deal: 1977 International Scout. Canary Yellow of course. And a 304 V8. Had a lot of fun in that thing.

Posted by: Meremortal, low at December 28, 2013 02:18 PM (1Y+hH)

187 We've been really happy with the 2011. We did a head-to-head comparison with a new 2010 (hoping we'd like the 2010 b/c it would have been cheaper) and it was like night and day, especially in terms of ride quality, but also the interior trim. The 2011 also turns on a dime, for a fairly large vehicle. Only wish we could have afforded the Overland version before they effed up the styling. *** the 2010 is the same generation as my 2008 and I love it, but do know that their were some refinements made in 2011.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:18 PM (DmNpO)

188 >>he J class NW is the most beautiful railroad locomotive ever produced *sulks*

Posted by: Thomas the Tank Engine at December 28, 2013 02:19 PM (SUKHu)

189 My Lincoln Navigator is quite rugged.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:20 PM (b1O1M)

190 Unless it gets an air leak. Then it's useless.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:20 PM (b1O1M)

191 I see we have a foamer amongst us.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 06:14 PM (DmNpO)

I'm sure I have no idea what you mean. >P

You can has some of mine. &&&&&&&&

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 06:15 PM (teFlO)

showoff.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:21 PM (yh0zB)

192 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 06:17 PM My BIL has an Excursion. Drives like a truck. Wifey has Escalade EXT and he always wants to take her car when we take trips together due to comfort. Now, as a man who says he will never buy a GM or Chrysler, you may wonder why wife has an Escalade. To put it in her words, "It's cheaper than a divorce."

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:22 PM (teFlO)

193 New thread, Gabe is trolling for all your meta-data outrage.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:22 PM (zb54T)

194 Now, as a man who says he will never buy a GM or Chrysler, you may wonder why wife has an Escalade. To put it in her words, "It's cheaper than a divorce." *** tee hee

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:23 PM (DmNpO)

195 My Lincoln Navigator is quite rugged.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 06:20 PM (b1O1M)

That's cause it's a Ford.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:23 PM (yh0zB)

196 Ford - For Old Redneck Drivers or Fix or Repair Daily or First on Race Day.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:24 PM (zb54T)

197 I'm in no mood for that ninny today.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:25 PM (b1O1M)

198 My BIL has an Excursion. Drives like a truck. Wifey has Escalade EXT and he always wants to take her car when we take trips together due to comfort.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 06:22 PM (teFlO)

GMC Denali. Same as Escalade under the sheetmetal, but cheaper. Also, the much vaunted Hummer H2? Yeah...GMC Denali with a really ugly body.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 02:26 PM (yh0zB)

199 Found On Road Dead

Posted by: Meremortal, fard at December 28, 2013 02:27 PM (1Y+hH)

200 Fix
It
Again
Tony

Posted by: JeanQ at December 28, 2013 02:29 PM (82lr7)

201 The only vehicle Lincoln offers with a V8 today is the Navigator. What a shame to see the Lincoln line turn into crap.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:30 PM (b1O1M)

202 GMC Denali. Same as Escalade under the sheetmetal, but cheaper. Also, the much vaunted Hummer H2? Yeah...GMC Denali with a really ugly body. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 06:26 PM Tell me about and about 15k less. I got wife to test one but she didn't like it. I don't think it had the "squishy, blue-haired" feel she likes.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:30 PM (teFlO)

203 Ford - For Old Redneck Drivers or Fix or Repair Daily or First on Race Day. *** Fix Or Repair Daily is an old one. Boy, that sure has changed. My ex-boyfriend bought his first ever new truck the day before our very first date; a 1993 F-150 XLT extended cab (Maroon w/gray trim along the bottom). He kept it for years and in all that time all he ever had to do to it was maintenance and brakes. He nearly cried when he traded it in.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:30 PM (DmNpO)

204

Just
Empty
Every
Pocket

Posted by: JeanQ at December 28, 2013 02:30 PM (82lr7)

205 okay now do Pontiac! no not really

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:31 PM (b1O1M)

206
   I drive an 87 Ramcharger, so styling is obviously not an issue for me.

   Makes me grin to read about the dislike for new car styling. I've long maintained new vehicles have all the appeal of a dead stump because THAT has been engineered right out of them.

    The only Jeep I ever encountered that was a true winner was the '45 MB my dad purchased as surplus.

   We still had it when I went into the Army.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 28, 2013 02:32 PM (SAMxH)

207 Sorry, soothsayer...didn't have any problems with Pontiac. Lol

Posted by: JeanQ at December 28, 2013 02:32 PM (82lr7)

208 One of the best movie scenes ever is Chuck Norris buried in a Dodge Ram and digging himself out. BREAKER! BREAKER!

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:34 PM (b1O1M)

209 Piece
Of
Nasty
Trashy
Idiotic
Auto
Crud

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:35 PM (zb54T)

210 Against
Naughty
Naughty
Autos

Punking
USA
Makers
Again

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 28, 2013 02:38 PM (QFxY5)

211 oh I just want everyone to know tonight I'll be on the Kukkamoogatz Show to discuss the scourge of monkeys

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:40 PM (b1O1M)

212 Monkeys and the Eighth Amendment, that is.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:41 PM (b1O1M)

213 I have discovered the perfect motor vehicle lubricant.

Pizza cheese grease.

A drop landed on my desk here and will. not. wipe. off.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 28, 2013 02:42 PM (4Mv1T)

214 It's part of a series Primates And The Constitution.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 28, 2013 02:43 PM (b1O1M)

215 I drive an 87 Ramcharger, so styling is obviously not an issue for me. Makes me grin to read about the dislike for new car styling. I've long maintained new vehicles have all the appeal of a dead stump because THAT has been engineered right out of them. The only Jeep I ever encountered that was a true winner was the '45 MB my dad purchased as surplus. *** My favorite Jeep ever. http://bit.ly/1cxSfZ7 Although this '72 is beautiful. http://bit.ly/JAuRyy

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:44 PM (DmNpO)

216 NDH, I had a 2003 Grand Cherokee Wagoneer for 5 years. Favorite car ever.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 28, 2013 02:45 PM (teFlO)

217 NDH has the right car, that IS the Grand Cherokee.

This is the new Cherokee: http://daewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-New-Wallpaper.jpg

Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at December 28, 2013 02:46 PM (Nk6GS)

218 CBD, I have reason to punk US car makers. Had a 2000 Pontiac Firebird with a failing transmission. And the dreaded cowl leak that can flood the passenger compartment of any 05 and later Mustang.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 28, 2013 02:48 PM (zb54T)

219 This is the new Cherokee: http://daewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-New-Wallpaper.jpg *** I can't even bear to cast my eyes upon it. As bad as the GC is, the Cherokee is worse.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 02:50 PM (DmNpO)

220 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 06:17 PM (yh0zB)

I think it was mainly so they wouldn't argue when their SO wanted to buy one.

It was supposed to be an excuse but of course they went to far.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at December 28, 2013 03:02 PM (LSDdO)

221 Ford-Found On Road Dead

Posted by: BobJustBob at December 28, 2013 03:42 PM (0Ed5d)

222 I loved my 86, 92, 96 Jeep Cherokees. Still made in China, alas no longer with the 2.5 pushrod 4, but a Nissan 2.0 litre engine now. http://www.carnewschina.com/2012/04/27/jeep-cherokee-is-still-in-production-in-china/

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 28, 2013 03:43 PM (l3vZN)

223 GMC: Gotta mechanic coming?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 28, 2013 03:47 PM (l3vZN)

224 Wow .. the 2014 Cherokee looks like it was designed by a Range Rover fetishist on an acid trip! That is *UGLY*! . Fortunately for me, I've no need for a Jeep Cherokee .. I've got a Toyota Tundra. . Mew

Posted by: acat at December 28, 2013 04:03 PM (gGEmy)

225 Old Dog in mo @ 69- Aztec vs Avalanche. Toss-up. Throw in the Juke for a trifecta.

Posted by: EROWMER at December 28, 2013 04:07 PM (OONaw)

226 Maybe I'm dating myself, but, anyone ever see an AMC Pacer? Or Grmlin?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 28, 2013 05:32 PM (HVff2)

Naw. Both those cars had some sort of style, and the style elements were consistent throughout the vehicles. The Aztek has a grab-bag of incompatible style elements all glommed together somehow. It's like a well-built, but ever-so-poorly designed custom car. What were they thinking?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 28, 2013 04:08 PM (60Q+L)

227 Calling the Cherokee feminine but at the same time admitting your main criteria is looks regardless of performance? Who is the girl here.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 28, 2013 04:14 PM (u+9Sb)

228 My favorite Jeep ever.

http://bit.ly/1cxSfZ7

Although this '72 is beautiful.

http://bit.ly/JAuRyy

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 06:44 PM (DmNpO)

Designed by Brooks Stevens, who also designed the sliding-roof station wagon (Wagonaire) for Studebaker. And the similarities between the two cars are huge.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 28, 2013 04:26 PM (60Q+L)

229 Calling the Cherokee feminine but at the same time admitting your main criteria is looks regardless of performance? Who is the girl here. *** Right. Because we know so well how men are not visual creatures.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2013 04:38 PM (DmNpO)

230 172 That pretty much happened when the diesel-electric locomotives replaced steam. Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2013 06:09 PM (Bcm4u) Oh please. The J class NW is the most beautiful railroad locomotive ever produced, ever, by anyone. By comparison the GP series, from the GP7 on up to the GP40, are not handsome locomotives. The EMD locos, on the other hand...they were rather rounded, weren't they? Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 28, 2013 06:12 PM (yh0zB) Sounds like we could use a locomotive thread. I don't know all that much about them, so I don't have much to contribute, but I do have an old B&O hood ornament in my attic. It's about three feet in diameter and apparently made of iron.

Posted by: rickl at December 28, 2013 05:03 PM (sdi6R)

231 Oh, c'mon....it's a bit subpar -- but it ain't no Aztek.....

*squints*

....is it?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 28, 2013 05:22 PM (T1005)

232 @229, Gord now I am sure that is you.

Brooks Stevens said of the Jeep Wagoneer, once you had a customer you knew they'd come back for another one, and another one after that. The car's only problem was that sooner or later the customers died.

I had a Wagonaire, oh boy did I. We had a great trip the day we bought it, a great trip every time we took her out, and a great trip (and made a new friend) when I delivered it to the guy I sold it to. It made you wish it was always the week before Christmas, made you want a new refrigerator every year.

Once I put bias-ply tires back on it, it didn't handle half-bad either. And we did more off-roading with it than most people do with their 4WD SUV's.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 28, 2013 05:22 PM (xq1UY)

233 Paul Newman showed up on more than one occasion in my hometown in Massachusetts. He raced with a guy who lived across the street from my best friend. Looked in vain for Coors there (wasn't for sale at that time, but he ran into a guy who happened to have a case at home). They drank in the kitchen while the guy's wife was at the hairdresser all afternoon, and you can bet he got an earful when she found out what she'd missed out on!

Posted by: Miley's Tongue at December 28, 2013 05:48 PM (R+h7Q)

234 You guys are obviously insecure in your masculinity. It's a pretty good looking wagon, feature rich, exceeding pimp-able.

Maybe you just can't afford one tricked out.

If your self-image is tied up in a 2008 Jeep, you need therapy.

Posted by: bigjack at December 28, 2013 05:49 PM (kFv+v)

235 My dad bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee back in '78 - he and my brothers loved it. I was on the left coast at the time, so I missed out on driving it.

Posted by: Miley's Tongue at December 28, 2013 05:50 PM (R+h7Q)

236 204 Fix Or Repair Daily is an old one. Boy, that sure has changed.

My ex-boyfriend bought his first ever new truck the day before our very first date; a 1993 F-150 XLT extended cab (Maroon w/gray trim along the bottom).

My '98 Contour went through three alternators, a serpentine belt, the idler pulley for the serpentine belt, and there was the day that I pulled out of the driveway, heard a clunk, got out and discovered that one of the tie rod ends had separated (!). Good thing that didn't happen while I was heading down the road!

Posted by: Anachronda at December 28, 2013 06:48 PM (U82Km)

237 Poor Old N***** Thinks It's A Cadillac. Racist, but couldn't resist....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at December 28, 2013 06:54 PM (Usdw3)

238 It had a vag in 08

Posted by: IthadtheGayin08 at December 28, 2013 07:21 PM (zij/Q)

239 I had a pre-Lee (198

Jeep Cherokee. It was awful. Not much torque, and couldn't hold the road. Never tried it off-road, but how many of us do our daily driving off-road?

Posted by: Otto Zilch at December 28, 2013 08:00 PM (5uQlQ)

240 In 2013 my son went out looking for an FJ and came home with a new Jeep Sahara. Six weeks ago I went out looking for a Jeep and came home with a 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser.

We have each driven the others vehicle and like them both though he prefers his Jeep and I prefer my FJ.

I had a 1996 Jeep Cherokee and though it was a reliable vehicle that served us well I have to say that my impression is that the FJ is more than twice the vehicle that jeep was. One expects a 4wd to go on slick roads, snow and ice and the FJ does that but what surprised me is just how well it stops in slick conditions. It has the best ABS and traction control system I have come across. Handling is well, very handy, and the 5 speed automatic shifts exceptionally smooth. The V6 gives it plenty of zip and towing power for it's size. On the down side if you don't know how to use side mirrors then you have to learn or rear visibility will be a problem for you with that small rear window and the spare tire covering part of it. It does have a back up camera who's screen pops up on the windshield mounted rear view mirror and that helps along with the warning sensor for backing up. If you wanna haul four adults around comfortably for long distances then the FJ is not the vehicle for you. The back seat is plenty adequate for kids or for hauling two good sized adults for short distances but I wouldn't wanna be one of the two grown ups in the back seat over the long haul.

It is amazing how a seemingly small detail can change the looks of a vehicle. I didn't like the looks of the FJs I had seen before. But put a roof rack on the thing and get it in white so that darn white roof isn't sticking out like a sore thumb and the whole look of the vehicle changes. It is just one of those vehicles people generally really like the looks of or really hate it.

This is the last year their making FJs. They sold less than 19,000 of them in 2013 so Toyota is discontinuing them after the 2014 model year.

Posted by: RAH at December 28, 2013 10:53 PM (qx1UM)

241 That Jeep Cherokee looks sweet in the 2014 Hello Kitty Edition.

Posted by: Brendon Carr at December 29, 2013 12:48 AM (/wNYl)

242 Not all women are interested in cupholders and trim. Personally I think the whole 'rounded look' of vehicles is downright ugly. It also cuts down on cargo space. My problem with the Jeep brand is it's record of reliability. Loved the old styling, but not in love with the idea of repairs.

Posted by: tired at December 29, 2013 05:19 AM (adOUE)

243 To a Jeep owner in Jacksonville: So, you owned a 2008 huh, and consider yourself a Jeep loyalist. I have owned one of almost every Cherokee and GC version that jeep has put out since 1984. yes, 1984. My first was a white Cherokee Chief. My last grand Cherokee was an overland 2004, before they put out that hideous 05 WK models ( I think that is the one you have) that resembled a Hummer. Its awkward headlights and slab sided rear made me hold on to my WJ for 130,000 miles. Now the WK2 was good looking to me, but it still had the 5 speed. But the new '14's? sorry chief, but ugly that isn't. It may not be "rugged' enough for you, but to a real jeep owner, you know, one that has bought 24 different jeeps over 30 years time, it is a fine looking automobile, and still a bargain compared to the European wannabes (save Land Rover, but they are too pricey). Now that new Cheorkee? I am having a difficult time digesting that one, we shall see.

Posted by: Trippy at December 29, 2013 06:53 AM (SBULa)

244 So, you owned a 2008 huh, and consider yourself a Jeep loyalist. I have owned one of almost every Cherokee and GC version that jeep has put out since 1984. yes, 1984. My first was a white Cherokee Chief. My last grand Cherokee was an overland 2004, before they put out that hideous 05 WK models ( I think that is the one you have) that resembled a Hummer. Its awkward headlights and slab sided rear made me hold on to my WJ for 130,000 miles. ** Congrats, Trip. You could afford to buy a Jeep back when I had barely surpassed the legal driving age.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 29, 2013 07:14 AM (DmNpO)

245 None of the women in my family would be caught anywhere near the 2014 Jeep anything. That's ugly beyond all chance of forgiveness.

I'll just keep my paid for 2007 Grand Cherokee, thanks.

Posted by: Arkay at December 29, 2013 02:41 PM (VXXkx)

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