March 19, 2013
— Gabriel Malor Above-the-Post Update: Byron York asked Sen. Paul's office for clarification and it seems, the key difference for Paul's plan isn't on whether a path to citizenship will exist, but simply when it will. Paul's plan emphasizes that border security must come first and be annually certified by Congress.
I like the idea of securing the borders, since handing out benefits before the borders are secure simply incentivizes bad behavior. But, I'm not all that keen on a plan that requires an annual show-down in Congress.
Republicans should have learned from the last ten congressional show-downs with Democrats -- over things like the Bush tax cuts, the debt ceiling, the budget CRs -- that we never walk away from them having gained appreciably. More often Congressional and GOP favorability numbers plummet and the Democrats throw a big party because we almost always end up beclowning ourselves over a GOP wedge issue.
Note, Democrats aren't divided over immigration, just like they weren't divided over spending increases. But the GOP is divided on the issue. So actually programing in another annual occasion for the Democrats to hit the GOP on a wedge issue seems like a terrible idea to me.
Original Post:
Full text of the speech, as prepared, is below the fold. There is some discussion on whether Sen. Paul wants a path to legalization, a path to citizenship, and how these paths relate to his proposal for border security.
Sen. Paul's office is saying right now that Paul does not endorse a path to citizenship.
Some notable excerpts:
On outreach:
Republicans need to become parents of a new future with Latino voters or we will need to resign ourselves to permanent minority status.The Republican Party has insisted for years that we stand for freedom and family values. I am most proud of my party when it stands for both.
On English language:
Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake.
His plan:
The first part of my plan – border security – must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished.
[...]
My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work.
[...]
It would also enable us to let more people in and allow us to admit we are not going to deport the millions of people who are currently here illegally.
[...]
Conservatives, myself included, are wary of amnesty. My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line.
[...]
My plan will not impose a national ID card or mandatory E-Verify, forcing businesses to become policemen."
He's mum on whether, after having legalized by means of a visa, he proposes that the aliens in question be allowed to become lawful permanent residents and, eventually, naturalize like other LPRs.
Por favor disculpen mi Espanol. Como creCI en Houston -es un poco ‘espanglish y un poco Tex Mex.I lived, worked, played and grew up alongside Latinos. As a teenager I worked alongside immigrants mowing lawns and putting in landscaping around businesses.
I remember once asking one of the immigrant workers how much he was being paid. “Cuanto le Pagan por el trabajo?
He responded “tres dolars.”
I responded, “Yo tambien. Tres Dolars, por hora . . . ?”
He shook shook his head, “No tres Dolars, por dia!”
At a young age, I came to understand that it makes a difference whether you are a documented immigrant or an undocumented immigrant, that the existence was not easy for the undocumented but that opportunity in America somehow trumped even the poor living conditions and low pay.
I wondered what circumstances must have been like in his country to choose an admittedly tough life in the shadows.
Growing up in Texas I never met a Latino who wasnÂ’t working.
In school, everyone took Spanish. I sometimes wish I had paid more attention in class. As a teenager, I was not always the model citizen that I am todayÂ…
In my middle school Spanish class, my exuberance sometimes overcame my restraint and I would be asked to go to the principalÂ’s office. My Spanish teacher would scold me,
“En boca cerrada no entran moscas!”
Cuando no lo escuchaba, I would often be sent to the PrincipalÂ’s office.
In those days we had corporal punishment. After a few such trips to the principalÂ’s office, I discovered that my Spanish teacher was married to the Assistant Principal and they were getting a divorce.
So when I was sent to the principalÂ’s office, I would make the decision to go instead to the Assistant PrincipalÂ’s office. He and I would commiserate: Oh man sheÂ’s crazy! YouÂ’re right kid, just sit here today and go back tomorrow.
As a consequence, I never became as proficient with my Spanish as I would have liked because I spent a great deal of time in detention.
I read Miguel de Unamuno in college. I think he gives Republicans some good advice,
He wrote, “Miremos más que somos padres de nuestro porvenir que no hijos de nuestro pasado”
Republicans need to become parents of a new future with Latino voters or we will need to resign ourselves to permanent minority status.
The Republican Party has insisted for years that we stand for freedom and family values. I am most proud of my party when it stands for both.
The vast majority of Latino voters agree with us on these issues but Republicans have pushed them away with harsh rhetoric over immigration.
Immigration is a contentious issue in American politics. In our zeal for border control, we have sometimes obscured our respect and admiration for immigrants and their contribution to America.
Republicans have been losing both the respect and votes of a group of people who already identify with our belief in family, faith, and conservative values. Hispanics should be a natural and sizable part of the Republican base.
That they have steadily drifted away from the GOP in each election says more about Republicans than it does about Hispanics.
Whether we are discussing hard work, respect for life or the quest for freedom, immigrants bring with them the same values that previous generations of immigrants did.
Defense of the unborn and defense of traditional marriage are Republican issues that should resonate with Latinos but have been obscured by the misperception that Republicans are hostile to immigrants.
Somewhere along the line Republicans have failed to understand and articulate that immigrants are an asset to America, not a liability.
My German great-grandparents didnÂ’t speak much English when they came to America. They didnÂ’t have much, but they also didnÂ’t ask for much-all they wanted was an opportunity.
They began in America peddling vegetables. They finally got that opportunity when they started a dairy business in their garage, scraping together a living, raising a family, and constantly working to give their children a better life than they had.
My great-grandfather came to America in the 1880′s. His father died after only six months in America. At 14, my great-grandfather was alone.
He survived and ultimately thrived in his new country with a new language. In their home and their church they spoke German.
Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake.
As the son of immigrants, my grandfather, who only had an 8th grade education, would live to see his own children all go to college. They became ministers, professors, doctors and accountants and one of them became a Congressman.
My familyÂ’s story is like that of millions of others who came to this country. Every generation of immigrants wants these opportunities.
Many have faced intolerance and bigotry. It was not always easy to be German American in the face of two world wars started by Germans. Intolerance is not new, and it is not limited to one language or skin color.
But through our rich history, and for many millions of immigrants who came to America, such sacrifice and hardship was worth it. They wanted what all Americans want-better lives for themselves, their children and grandchildren.
For the American Dream to be achievable for all, we have to have an educational system that believes that all students have the capability to succeed.
Unfortunately, the education establishment seems to casually discard Latinos, blacks, and others into crummy schools with no hope.
I argue that the struggle for a good education is the civil rights issue of our day.
I love the story of Jaime Escalante.
In the area of East Los Angeles, in 1982, in an environment that values a quick fix over education and learning, Escalante was a new math teacher at Garfield High School determined to change the system and challenge the students to a higher level of achievement.
Escalante was at first not well liked by students, receiving numerous taunts and threats.
As the year progressed, he was able to win over the attention of the students by implementing innovative teaching techniques.
He transformed even the most troublesome teens into dedicated students. While Escalante was teaching basic arithmetic and algebra, he realized that his students have far more potential.
He decided to teach them calculus. To do so, he held a summer course in pre-calculus.
Despite concerns and skepticism of other teachers, who felt that “you can’t teach logarithms to illiterates,” Escalante nonetheless developed a program in which his students can eventually take AP Calculus by their senior year.
Taking the AP Calculus exam in the spring of their senior year, his students were relieved and overjoyed to find that they have all passed, a feat done by few in the state.
My dream is that we transform the education monopoly into a thriving, competitive environment where Hispanic students get to choose what school they attend and that no student is forgotten or ignored.
AmericaÂ’s strength has always been that we are a melting pot with room for those who dare to dream. IÂ’ve seen firsthand what it is like for new immigrants in Texas.
IÂ’ve never met a new immigrant looking for a free lunch.
The question is: How do we now reflect this in our 21st century immigration policy?
It is absolutely vital for both the success of our immigration policy and for the purposes of national security that we finally secure our borders.
Not to stop most immigrants from coming-we welcome them and in fact should seek to increase legal immigration.
The Republican Party must embrace more legal immigration.
Unfortunately, like many of the major debates in Washington, immigration has become a stalemate-where both sides are imprisoned by their own rhetoric or attachment to sacred cows that prevent the possibility of a balanced solution.
Immigration Reform will not occur until Conservative Republicans, like myself, become part of the solution. I am here today to begin that conversation.
LetÂ’s start that conversation by acknowledging we arenÂ’t going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants.
If you wish to work, if you wish to live and work in America, then we will find a place for you.
In order to bring conservatives to this cause however, those who work for reform must understand that a real solution must ensure that our borders are secure.
But we also must treat those who are already here with understanding and compassion.
The first part of my plan – border security – must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished.
This is what I call, Trust but Verify.
With this in place, I believe conservatives will accept what needs to come next, an issue that must be addressed: what becomes of the 12 million undocumented workers in the United States?
My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work.
A bipartisan panel would determine number of visas per year. High tech visas would also be expanded and have a priority. Special entrepreneurial visas would also be issued.
Fairness is key in any meaningful immigration reform, but this fairness would cut both ways:
The modernization of our visa system and border security would allow us to accurately track immigration.
It would also enable us to let more people in and allow us to admit we are not going to deport the millions of people who are currently here illegally.
This is where prudence, compassion and thrift all point us toward the same goal: bringing these workers out of the shadows and into being taxpaying members of society.
Imagine 12 million people who are already here coming out of the shadows to become new taxpayers.12 million more people assimilating into society. 12 million more people being productive contributors.
Conservatives, myself included, are wary of amnesty. My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line.
But what we have now is de facto amnesty.
The solution doesnÂ’t have to be amnesty or deportation-a middle ground might be called probation where those who came illegally become legal through a probationary period.
My plan will not impose a national ID card or mandatory E-Verify, forcing businesses to become policemen.
We should not be unfair to those who came to our country legally. Nor should we force business owners to become immigration inspectors-making them do the job the federal government has failed to do.
After an Inspector General has verified that the border is secure after year one, the report must come back and be approved by Congress.
In year two, we could begin expanding probationary work visas to immigrants who are willing to work. I would have Congress vote each year for five years whether to approve or not approve a report on whether or not we are securing the border.
We should be proud that so many want to come to America, that it is still seen as the land of opportunity.
LetÂ’s make it a land of legal work, not black market jobs. LetÂ’s make it a land of work not welfare. Our land should be one of assimilation, not hiding in the shadows.
On immigration, common sense and decency have been neglected for far too long. LetÂ’s secure our borders, welcome our new neighbors, and practice the values of freedom and family for all to see.
Some say to generalize about any ethnic group is be a racist. There is a hilarious Seinfeld episode where Jerry admits that he loves Asian women but he frets and worries, “Is it racist to like a certain race?”
So it is with trepidation that I express my admiration for the romance of the latin culture. I am a fan of Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
In Love in the Time of Cholera, Marquez gives some advice that Republicans might consider,
“. . . human beings are not born once and for all on the day their mothers give birth to them, . . . life obliges them over and over again to give birth to themselves.”
Likewise, Republicans need to give birth to a new attitude toward immigrants, an attitude that sees immigrants as assets not liabilities.
No one captures the romance of the Latin culture more than Pablo Neruda.
I love how Neruda in “Si tu me Olvidas” issues a passionate threat but ends by saying,
“Pero
si cada dÃa,
cada hora,
sientes que a mà estás destinada
con dulzura implacable,
si cada dÃa sube
una flor a tus labios a buscarme,
ay amor mÃo, ay mÃa,
en mà todo ese fuego se repite,
en mà nada se apaga ni se olvida”
How can we not embrace such passion. How can we not want that culture to merge with and infuse the American spirit. They are not called the romance languages for no reason.
As we move forward on immigration reform, I for one will work to find a solution that both adheres to the rule of law and makes room for compassion.
My hope is that today we begin a dialogue between the GOP and Latinos.
A dialogue that shows that the GOP sees all immigrants as assets and that Latinos can come to see the GOP as the party of opportunity, the party of the American Dream, — El partido del sueňo Americano.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at
05:50 AM
| Comments (238)
Post contains 2733 words, total size 17 kb.
Well his office may say no citizenship but what does that mean? I say it is absolute bull shit. Hispanics are never going to vote for Republicans in mass and if the Republican Party is going to become Democrats in order to attract them why do we need it? One Democrat Party has managed to destroy the country I grew up in. What will two do?
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 05:56 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 05:56 AM (FsUAO)
Strait out of the Republican Party leadership talking points. And it is pure unadulterated crap. They have got to him.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 05:58 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 05:59 AM (FsUAO)
---
We'll find a place for them? They can't find their own?
Posted by: RioBravo at March 19, 2013 06:00 AM (eEfYn)
Posted by: H. at March 19, 2013 06:01 AM (zCQAZ)
Posted by: Eddie Baby at March 19, 2013 06:02 AM (0eQrv)
You know that's Sen. Rubio's plan too, right?
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at March 19, 2013 06:03 AM (jZUEZ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 09:59 AM (FsUAO)
Of course they are coming, they are about to create 30 million new Democrats.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:03 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:04 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: clemenza at March 19, 2013 06:04 AM (HMQ8k)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:05 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:06 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Eddie Baby at March 19, 2013 06:06 AM (0eQrv)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:06 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: clemenza at March 19, 2013 06:07 AM (HMQ8k)
Serious question.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 10:05 AM (FsUAO)
Stockpile food, ammo, and LIB. Personally I think it is already too late to do anything even if the government wasn't so corrupt that they never will intend to do anything.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:08 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:09 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:09 AM (FsUAO)
==========
A strawman used by people too chickenshit to just call you a racist.
Fact is, it isn't speaking two languages that is the problem and nobody is "criticizing" that--it's speaking Spanish only with, at best, a little broken English and expecting everyone else to cater.
But let us surrender another bit of our common culture because all the "smart people" tell us it's a good idea.
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 19, 2013 06:10 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at March 19, 2013 10:03 AM (jZUEZ)
Except for the fact that Rubio's plan grants a) instant legalization for all before any new enforcement, and b) a path to citizenship.
Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at March 19, 2013 06:11 AM (CfjR/)
Posted by: andycanuck at March 19, 2013 06:12 AM (ORGYc)
Posted by: WMCB at March 19, 2013 06:12 AM (jjsXL)
Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake.
Unadulterated bullshit. Why is it a mistake to ask that people coming to live in a country whose founding fucking documents are in English learn the goddamn language?
Is it because of some mythical "majority" of Hispanics that makes "press 1 for English" mandatory? Then, by that logic, when my ancestors were part of the largest ethnic group in America, we should have been bilingual in Gaelic.
Pandering to Spanish speakers by accomodating their language in national everyday dealings sends the unspoken message that they don't need to assimilate; that the US will bend to their needs rather than they to it.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 19, 2013 06:12 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:13 AM (FsUAO)
>>Growing up in Texas I never met a Latino who wasnÂ’t working.
That's similar to what I saw when I lived in Texas.
>>I see too much National Pride here by Mexicans, Salvadorans, Central Americans etc
After 2 years of living on the border, my son saw a Mexican flag and asked what it was, because he hadn't seen it before.
Not that American flags were most popular. Texas flags, "hook 'em horns" flags, then maybe American flags...
Posted by: Mama AJ at March 19, 2013 06:13 AM (SUKHu)
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 06:13 AM (wR+pz)
Posted by: Andy at March 19, 2013 06:14 AM (OZPoa)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 19, 2013 06:14 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: Jess1 at March 19, 2013 06:14 AM (lbiWb)
Posted by: chique d'afrique at March 19, 2013 06:15 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: naturalfake at March 19, 2013 06:15 AM (G9qZk)
Posted by: clemenza at March 19, 2013 06:15 AM (HMQ8k)
Posted by: DangerGirl at March 19, 2013 06:16 AM (U7Ivf)
Posted by: Sandra Fluke's award-winning solid gold diaphragm at March 19, 2013 06:16 AM (7xeJQ)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:16 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: chique d'afrique at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: clemenza at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (HMQ8k)
Posted by: H. at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (zCQAZ)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (71LDo)
What about the millions of Filipinos that want to come to America?
Racists!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rand Paul hates Asians!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (UrENZ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (FsUAO)
---
Is he that stupid?
59% of latino voters support gay marriage.
74% of latinos support full choice on abortion
Or does he assume other Republicans are?
Posted by: RioBravo at March 19, 2013 06:17 AM (eEfYn)
Does Rand Paul not know that poet Pablo Neruda was a slimy little communist propagandist who wrote quasi-religious odes to Stalin that oozed with nearly unreadable adoration?
Panderers pandering pander. And some of you want to make him president. Geez Louise.
Posted by: troyriser at March 19, 2013 06:18 AM (vtiE6)
Yes we need immigration reform, but NOT what has been rolled out the last half dozen times. Every bill that has come out since the first major rewrite in 1965 has basically been amnesty and open invitation for illegals to flood across the border.
We are no longer the country of the 19th century with vast open areas in the West. Our cities are overcrowded shit holes run by corrupt communist hacks AND there is no longer a vast area open for the inhabitants to flee to and take up farming.
This is not to mention that we have entire towns in CA with a population > 20,000 in which none of the citizens speak English. The current crew of "immigrants" do not appear to desire to assimilate and the current crowd of liberals do not think they should. The schools have gone from teaching America as a mixing pot to America as a salad bowl where "diversity" is celebrated and heritage counts for all, unless you have a European heritage then you are a racist.
Yes, there are a lot of things that need to be done to "fix" our immigration laws. The first one of these should be to repeal that POS of Amnesty Round I that got us where we are today.
We need immigration law that does the following AND that is enforced:
1. Eliminate the BS anchor baby interpretation by providing a definition of what the term “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means, which is not dashing across the border to deliver a baby. Personally, I would require that at least one of the parents of any child born in the U.S. be a citizen before that child was eligible for “birthright” citizenship. If not, then the child would have to undergo naturalization.
2. Provide a reliable means for employers to check the status of employees.
3. Provide severe punishments for knowingly hiring illegals (or reckless disregard). That punishment should include jail time for repeat violations.
4. Eliminate ALL benefits for illegals including schools for children.
5. Rewrite legal immigration to allow in immigrants with a desirable education and/or skill set and arrange the waiting list to have the most skilled/educated at the top of the list. (Australian system) Also include a check for communicable diseases (as we did in the past) and provide for immunization. Immigrants from countries on the list of terror support need not apply.
6. For groups that already have large populations in the U.S. who have not assimilated, reduce the allowable numbers until they do (eliminate whole towns that do not speak English)
7. Provide severe penalties for mules.
8. Provide the death penalty for people involved in sex slavery.
9. Eliminate all forms of asylum. That system has been abused to the point of making it a joke. Any true case that needs to be let in should be a case by case special act passed by congress. Get them on record.
10. Immigrants who become involved in any serious crime prior to becoming a citizen should be deported back to their home country.
11. Absolutely no dual citizenship allowed.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:18 AM (53z96)
#36 - What about people like him?
What about? He (seemingly) followed the lawful steps which lead to that result.
Oh, you were wondering "how could he stay"? Easy. Ignore the process. Stay anyway.
Posted by: Jess1 at March 19, 2013 06:18 AM (lbiWb)
Posted by: andycanuck at March 19, 2013 06:18 AM (ORGYc)
Posted by: naturalfake at March 19, 2013 06:19 AM (G9qZk)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:19 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:19 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:20 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: Andy at March 19, 2013 06:20 AM (OZPoa)
#53,
Excellent idea. Perhaps Andy could include commentary on some Eastern European arms makers as well...
Posted by: Jess1 at March 19, 2013 06:20 AM (lbiWb)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 06:20 AM (XYSwB)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:21 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: H. at March 19, 2013 06:21 AM (zCQAZ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:22 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 19, 2013 06:22 AM (zF6Iw)
16It's not Hispanics, it's poor and unskilled. Importing poor people will not make your nation wealthy.
And Unions will NEVER allow large numbers of skilled labor into this country. See 'nusing shortage' viewed thru the lense of teh union goon and compare it to ten-thousand nurses graduating in Cebu City, Philippines each year and desiring a job abroad.
Ten thousand English-speaking, 4-year college grads. With traditional, conservative values.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 06:22 AM (UrENZ)
Posted by: Horrified Observer at March 19, 2013 06:23 AM (/sohm)
61 -
What if it's a job working in a Mexican restaurant?
I want to know what cilantro is, and nobody who speaks English seems to know.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 06:23 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Infidel at March 19, 2013 06:23 AM (O/fK8)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 06:23 AM (XYSwB)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:24 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:25 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:25 AM (FsUAO)
Unfortunately that hispanic family values includes a lot of prison families and drug cartel families and gang families. Again its a tale of two citizens.
Admittedly there are many, many fine upstanding Hispanic families. Sadly what I see there too is a hesistancy to assimilate to become American. These same fine families will go to a Mexico-USA soccer game and root for Mexico.
Its hard to support even legal immigration when you see things like that. I don't like it but I believe a majority of immigrants from the South could give a shit about America the country but only about what America can give them.
That said, we do need to address our illegal immigration problem with identification, process to make them legal or deportation and border security. It will all be for nil though unless we can convince them to want to be Americans instead of vistors taking advantage of Amercia's charity.
Posted by: polynikes at March 19, 2013 06:25 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:26 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:26 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 19, 2013 06:26 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:26 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:27 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 06:27 AM (XYSwB)
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:27 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:27 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 19, 2013 06:28 AM (EWKEr)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 19, 2013 06:28 AM (6zgse)
"Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake."
Game over. The greatest strength this country has had historically was a single tongue that immigrants HAD to learn in order to function. It was the language that made from out of many, one even possible.
Posted by: Radeaminnit at March 19, 2013 06:29 AM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:29 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (XYSwB)
83 -
72-28
Republicans are counting the votes. It's that simple. Your brother, and people like him are not going to make up that gap. It's not about what's right, it's about getting power, keeping power, and preventing the other team from taking your power.
These are politicians. That is all.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (FsUAO)
:::Republicans who criticize the use of two languages make a great mistake.:::
We're not criticizing the use of two languages, asshole. We're criticizing the use of ONE language, when that language is not English. If native Spanish speakers, or Cantonese, Mandarin, Tagalog, German, French - whichever - learn English when they move here, then there is no problem with them retaining their native language. Because they're assimilating.
We're criticizing assholes like Fruitbat, Jr., who imply that we're racists for not Hispandering as hard as he does.
FUCK YOU, RAND PAUL. I never liked or trusted you or your retard daddy. You're fucking Libertarians who have made the realization that your personal ambitions can't be satisfied by running as what you are, so you cloak yourself in the GOP and tell us we're the problem. Eat a bag of tortilla-wrapped dicks, you fucking jagoff.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (CJjw5)
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (wR+pz)
have you seen the videos of the creative ways the mexicans breach border fences? they are on youtube......
I viewed a video of a man riding an elephant alongside a mariachi band crossing the border.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 06:30 AM (UrENZ)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:31 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 19, 2013 06:31 AM (XYSwB)
It is a lie that they won't get citizenship even if the original legislation says no. In a few years they'll be whining about being made an official second class, and they'll get on citizen trac because compassion.
At least when we become Mexico 2.0 we'll lose that Respect Teh Law!!1 stiff hair that characterizes the anglo-german sphere.
Since we've embraced corruption on the federal level, it might not be such a bad trade.
Posted by: Ook? at March 19, 2013 06:31 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 06:31 AM (CBCxo)
Posted by: WMCB at March 19, 2013 06:32 AM (jjsXL)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 06:32 AM (xN73L)
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 06:33 AM (9+ccr)
Posted by: no good deed at March 19, 2013 06:33 AM (oB7O2)
Let's start that conversation by acknowledging none of us here give a flying fuck about the rule of law. My German forebears? First thing they did when they got here was obey the law. Chico here? First thing he did was break it.
FIFY.
Posted by: Okey dokey at March 19, 2013 06:33 AM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:33 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 06:33 AM (9Bj8R)
Posted by: DangerGirl at March 19, 2013 06:34 AM (L2I78)
have you seen the videos of the creative ways the mexicans breach border fences? they are on youtube...... Posted by: phoenixgirl
Make the fences out of 2 ft. solid titanium, that goes a quarter mile deep into the ground, and reaches 200 feet high above ground.
Are illegal immigrants any more determined to breech the border than the Palestinians were to get past the West Bank barrier?
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:34 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:34 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 06:34 AM (xN73L)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:34 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 19, 2013 10:33 AM (9Bj8R)
Wonder where they go those?
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at March 19, 2013 06:35 AM (9+ccr)
Posted by: L, elle at March 19, 2013 06:35 AM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:35 AM (GVxQo)
If you used it to bribe that sack of shit McCain to retire and get Jan Brewer to appoint a Hispanic or black, we'd get more votes than that $10 million ever would.
But of course, the "consultants" wouldn't get paid.
Fact is, the Republican Party's problem starts, begins and ends with one thing: Old White Men.
In every state in the country there are young, strong, committed and proud minority Republicans.
It is time to make them the face of the party and fuck the Old Guard.
John McCain 1987
Chuck Grassly 1981
Mitch McConnel 1985
Thad Cochran 1978
Orrin Hatch 1977
You all see the problem there? All but Chuck would be automatic GOP holds and Mitch would have to serve out his term-- do we really need those old shitstains around any more?
McCain, Cochran and Hatch could retire tomorrow and we could have $100 million in free minority outreach and millions in votes merely by appointing a minority.
Yeah, it's affirmative action. Yeah, it sucks and shouldn't be that way. But, that's reality and the minorities care about that shit. And they are not going to listen to what we have to say until they see someone like them saying it. Ask them, talk to them, that's what they will tell you.
And amnesty has fuck-all to do with reaching the minorities. They'll say, "That's nice. So, I fill in the oval after the guy with a 'D' next to his name, right?"
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 19, 2013 06:36 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: andycanuck at March 19, 2013 06:36 AM (ORGYc)
Demand that for every Latino put on the path to citizenship one Eastern European and one Asian be let in and put on the same path.
THEN you'll see just what a lie their commitment to impartial immigration really is.
Fuckwit traitors. All of them.
Posted by: Okey dokey at March 19, 2013 06:36 AM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:36 AM (FsUAO)
111 -
Chemical weapons? I was told there ARE no chemical weapons in that part of the world. Why, wherever would the Syrians have gotten chemical weapons from? That's crazy talk, is what it is.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 06:36 AM (TOk1P)
And another thing. Rand Paul is 50 years old. He's saying that his illegal alien buddy was making $3/day circa 1978?
FUCKING. LIAR.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 19, 2013 06:37 AM (CJjw5)
usdebtclock just passed $16.7 Trillion for the National Debt and 106.7% debt to GDP ratio which was just 69.35% on this date in 2008.
Math will end up solving the illegal immigration problem sooner than anyone in Washington. At the rates above, the free shit's going to be gone.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at March 19, 2013 06:37 AM (AC0lD)
Much of the landscaping, farm labor, and day labor construction work are cash paying jobs under the table
These used to be the jobs our teenagers did.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 06:38 AM (UrENZ)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 19, 2013 06:38 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:38 AM (e8YyI)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 19, 2013 06:39 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 06:39 AM (xN73L)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 19, 2013 06:39 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:40 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 10:38 AM (UrENZ)
Soon they will be jobs robots do instead.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:40 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:41 AM (GVxQo)
These used to be the jobs our teenagers did.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 19, 2013 10:38 AM (UrENZ)
Soon they will be jobs robots do instead.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 10:40 AM (UypUQ)
While the teenagers are busy trying to hack the software on the family sexbot.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 19, 2013 06:42 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:42 AM (FsUAO)
Earlier this morning:
"Well, anyway, Paul is signing on to the "pathway to citizenship" camp, though there's no indication he's part of the bipartisan reform talks currently taking place in D.C."
Just now:
"Sen. Paul's office is saying right now that Paul does not endorse a path to citizenship. "
Posted by: @JohnTant at March 19, 2013 06:42 AM (tVWQB)
:::Meanwhile in Canada re. illegal immigration... see the sock. (Hat tip Blazing Cat Fur):::
Vic Toews is one crusty old bastard. I like him.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 19, 2013 06:43 AM (CJjw5)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 06:43 AM (xN73L)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 06:43 AM (CBCxo)
Posted by: Infidel at March 19, 2013 06:43 AM (O/fK8)
Posted by: Danny at March 19, 2013 06:44 AM (ddO/k)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:44 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:44 AM (GVxQo)
Instead, it's proposal after proposal to cater to people who DON'T vote Republican.
If our ideas are correct, if our party platform is correct, then let's act like it!
Otherwise, let's get on with amnesty, queer marriage and tax increases.
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 19, 2013 06:45 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 06:45 AM (GVxQo)
Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:46 AM (e8YyI)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:46 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: Baldy at March 19, 2013 06:46 AM (opS9C)
Posted by: Horrified Observer at March 19, 2013 06:47 AM (/sohm)
Also, we don't have the manpower to patrol the border barriers the way the Israelis do. Quite simply, there's too much border.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at March 19, 2013 06:47 AM (jZUEZ)
We do not have enough money to build a fence from Baja, CA to the Gulf of Mexico. We also don't have enough money to hire border guards to guard that length with.
Which is why I said that the database and hiring enforcement is the only way to stop it. And anyone who doesn't have that in their plan is not serious.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:47 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:47 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Jenny hates her phone at March 19, 2013 06:48 AM (e8YyI)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:48 AM (1V6Pv)
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:49 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:49 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: chique d'afrique at March 19, 2013 06:49 AM (6zgse)
"My plan will not impose a national ID card or mandatory E-Verify, forcing businesses to become policemen.
We should not be unfair to those who came to our country legally. Nor should we force business owners to become immigration inspectors-making them do the job the federal government has failed to do."
This is libertarian nonsense. We already require businesses to collect payroll taxes. Is is so much more of a burden to ask them to pass along verifiable credentials?
"After an Inspector General has verified that the border is secure after year one, the report must come back and be approved by Congress.
In year two, we could begin expanding probationary work visas to immigrants who are willing to work. I would have Congress vote each year for five years whether to approve or not approve a report on whether or not we are securing the border."
Great! Lets have a vote year-after-year guaranteeing the issue remains front and center in future elections. And what happens to those who aren't willing to work or who are but can't find work? What exactly happens if the border is never secured? What good does the bill do in that case?
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 06:50 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:50 AM (FsUAO)
"There are various accounts of how many amnesties were expected with passage of the 1986 amnesty. Figures range from 300,000 (Gingrich, who voted for it) to about 2.1 million. Some reasonable estimates center around 1.2 million. The actual result was 2.7 million. Close to one third of the amnesties given were based on document fraud."
Posted by: RioBravo at March 19, 2013 06:51 AM (eEfYn)
Posted by: chique d'afrique at March 19, 2013 06:53 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: Ook? at March 19, 2013 06:54 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: CJ at March 19, 2013 06:54 AM (9KqcB)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:54 AM (FsUAO)
Really not sure what to make of that. It seems functionally wrong to me. As a matter of policy unfettered immigration is doomed to failure. Obviously our current system is horrifically broken, but I'm not sure that the correct response is to declare we must replace it with an "everybody in" approach.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 06:55 AM (ULkyQ)
Posted by: chique d'afrique at March 19, 2013 06:55 AM (6zgse)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 06:55 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at March 19, 2013 06:55 AM (feFL6)
Posted by: Thorvald at March 19, 2013 06:55 AM (1V6Pv)
But special interests want their cheap labor, with health care subsidized by taxpayers. Mexicans will come work cheap because they get everything else free, and pay no taxes. And they have whole black market communities that escape any kind of policing.
Given the huge money in the drug trade, and Obama's Chicago background, it really seems even the criminal element is part of why Obama wants to keep this as a wedge issue, while "dealing" with the cartels.
It is true that capable immigrants are assets. And we can verify and biometric ID them, and get them paying into the system rather than working as subsidized cheap labor for drug runners or certain farmers. Those people see Mexicans as a slave asset, not a free market asset.
Powerful people cling to their slavery religion and their drugs ... while also claiming the wedge issue.
Posted by: Illini Bill at March 19, 2013 06:57 AM (4Dp50)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 10:50 AM (FsUAO)
It wasn't today's post. You have to filter through weeks.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 06:57 AM (53z96)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:00 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Horrified Observer at March 19, 2013 07:00 AM (/sohm)
There are millions and millions of Republican votes to be had in the world.
If the Dems get to import their voters, we should start importing ours.
Let's go back to the immigration policy before that "now roasting in hell" shitheel Kennedy changed it.
There is nothing more moral, nothing better, nothing sacred about Hispanic immigrants--so why should our immigration policy focus on them?
For every Hispanic who qualifies under this plan, the law should allow an Indian, a European, an Asian the same.
A one-for-one in any new law will guarantee the border gets locked down.
Soon as the Dems see their new voters from the South are adding new voters from the East and West to the GOP--they'll be the ones calling for deportation.
Posted by: RoyalOil at March 19, 2013 07:01 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: L, elle at March 19, 2013 07:01 AM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:01 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:02 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 07:04 AM (CBCxo)
Posted by: WMCB at March 19, 2013 10:32 AM (jjsXL)
[coughs] The USA takes in more legal immigrants than any other nation on earth, IIRC.
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 19, 2013 07:05 AM (BAS5M)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:05 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: Ook? at March 19, 2013 07:06 AM (OQpzc)
Posted by: Beagle at March 19, 2013 07:06 AM (mLEf3)
I don't think that "self-deportation" is real. Also, the 20 million number was what they were using almost 10 years ago during the last amnesty round so 30 to 40 million is certainly feasible.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 07:06 AM (53z96)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 07:07 AM (CBCxo)
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at March 19, 2013 10:47 AM (jZUEZ)
More like not enough will. If we don't have enough manpower can we not develop robots that can do the job? Seriously, if we can have a rover exploring Mars years on end I don't see how similar innovation can't be applied here.
Look, its a matter of tweaking the formula of risk/reward to comming here illegally:
Rewards...
j = job market
w = welfare benefits
Risks...
p = punishment for getting caught
e = difficulty getting around e-verify screen
b = physical challenge of getting past border, drones, patrols.
( j + w ) - ( p + e + b ) = y
When y is below zero the stem of new undocumented workers wanes and those here start to return home.
Seriously, all we need to do is make it easier to get an income in their home countries than it is here and the problem fixes itself.
Posted by: Serious Cat at March 19, 2013 07:07 AM (UypUQ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:07 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: eman at March 19, 2013 07:07 AM (64rcm)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:08 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: TooCon at March 19, 2013 07:08 AM (f+yEj)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 07:09 AM (CBCxo)
Posted by: L, elle at March 19, 2013 07:09 AM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 19, 2013 11:05 AM (BAS5M)
Not per capita, but I think you're right over all.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 11:05 AM (FsUAO
Even if true, the system is pretty f'ing broken. My professor's son just got married while stationed in Mexico (or something, I don't remember the whole story of how they met. Salient points, solider, Mexican wife.)
The part I do remember is the hell my professor went through trying to get his new daughter-in-law a green card so she could come live with her husband (before he deployed again.) I remember at one point he said "it'd be easier and cheaper just to pay a Coyote to smuggle her across the boarder."
So yeah, it's a messed up system that needs to be fixed, like every other federal government system.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at March 19, 2013 07:09 AM (ULkyQ)
This is about Latinos being a special interest group. Again, why the hate for non-Latino foreigners?
Because the Latino is more likely to vote Democrat. See also: "Hall, Tammany."
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 19, 2013 07:09 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at March 19, 2013 07:10 AM (UU0OF)
We're looking at maybe 12 million "new citizens" in about 12+ years at the earliest, of which only a fraction will vote.
That's not as apocalyptic as some are making out.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 10:42 AM (FsUAO)
That's before the family chain migration. Once you are a citizen, you can bring in your spouse, children, siblings. 1986 amnesty recipients each brought in an average of 3 relatives.
Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at March 19, 2013 07:11 AM (CfjR/)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:12 AM (FsUAO)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 19, 2013 07:14 AM (FsUAO)
There is nothing more moral, nothing better, nothing sacred about Hispanic immigrants--so why should our immigration policy focus on them? For every Hispanic who qualifies under this plan, the law should allow an Indian, a European, an Asian the same.
Europeans? But the Left's whole plan is to turn the US into a European nation without all those lame European Americans. How we going to reach that glorious day of atonement if they never die off?
Posted by: CJ at March 19, 2013 07:16 AM (9KqcB)
Posted by: eman at March 19, 2013 07:18 AM (64rcm)
"Ok, if this is an unstoppable freight train, then let's get on board and drive."
LOL. You seem to think this runaway freight train is "driveable". It's not. It's run by short-sighted management, overladen, and ill-maintained. As is, it won't stop moving until the last of the hot slag on the burning, twisted heap of rusted steel settles into the ash.
No. The sane thing to do when trapped on a one way ticket to doom is to jump off the train and take your lumps in the process.
We need a divorce. Soon.
Posted by: Jaws at March 19, 2013 07:20 AM (4I3Uo)
I feel for their plight but allowing illegals or a massive influx of uneducated physical laborers into the country is asking for chaos and reduced wages. Even in good economic times.
If you can't understand that OR don't want to acknowledge that, then your just pandering to the hispanics for the same reasons the Democrats do so.
And also that "drift" away from the GOP is also BULLSHIT. They do not have the same attitudes about government and it's role. They have a good work ethic because in their country if you don't work, YOU DIE.
But that doesn't mean they share other ethos and morals and attitudes.
A lot of people may not realize that the Roman Empire's main cause of demise is that they ALLOWED TOO MANY FOREIGNERS TO BECOME CITIZENS.
That's what brought down Rome and it's bringing down the US.
With Democrat blessing. Every time the GOP agrees to once more legalize those who snuck in since the last flood, the Democrats come another step closer to having a lock on reelection. The almost have it now. And we're going to help them go the rest of the way?
On what planet does that make any sense?
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 19, 2013 07:21 AM (Kpn/z)
Posted by: booger at March 19, 2013 07:21 AM (HI6wa)
Posted by: Beagle at March 19, 2013 07:23 AM (mLEf3)
Posted by: BSR at March 19, 2013 11:09 AM (CBCxo)
Math and human nature will make it happen. We're on the cusp of a world wide economic collapse and every "other" in every country will be driven out to protect the few remaining jobs available. If the legal authorities refuse to act the population will act for them, violently. Something American expats should keep in mind.
The idiocy of talking about importing millions of unskilled workers from a failed narco-state during a world-wide depression demonstrates how just corrupt both parties are. Only payoffs from special interests wanting cheap slave labor can explain the Republican's desire to commit political suicide. Fuck Rand Paul with the barbed cock of satan.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at March 19, 2013 07:28 AM (rXcBX)
Any immigration reform must include English as official language and ban to issue any government papers or voting ballots in other languages. Citizenship English exam should be change, current on is joke (I now, I took one)
Posted by: redmonkey at March 19, 2013 07:35 AM (2R6mJ)
Posted by: Beagle at March 19, 2013 07:37 AM (mLEf3)
Posted by: LeBron Steinman at March 19, 2013 07:40 AM (jfWE9)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 19, 2013 07:44 AM (bcLhD)
Posted by: wooga at March 19, 2013 07:46 AM (14yYa)
Posted by: blindside at March 19, 2013 07:47 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: GnuBreed at March 19, 2013 07:48 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: JJ Stone at March 19, 2013 07:48 AM (33gJp)
Posted by: H. at March 19, 2013 07:54 AM (zCQAZ)
Posted by: Beagle at March 19, 2013 08:03 AM (mLEf3)
There seems to be this idea that the illegals streaming across the border are harmless kittens. I have a bunch of neighbors that would disagree. If you are a female or elderly, you are a target for car theft, robbery, or worse.
We actually had a running body count going here in Cochise County just a few years ago. Rob Krentz was only one of the losses. It calmed down for a while after that, but its ramped up again now that amnesty is on the table.
And judging by the sheer numbers I have seen coming across the borders in the 20 years I've lived here, anyone who says we only have 11 million illegals here is way underestimating the numbers. My sector alone was racking up 1 million plus arrests per year in the last decade. And they were only catching 1 in 3. It slacked off for the last few years, but again, it is picking up in a big way.
Posted by: AZ Hi Desert at March 19, 2013 08:04 AM (IUt84)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at March 19, 2013 08:04 AM (EWKEr)
Please let me know: are you against a "path to citizenship?"
Now, before your answer consider the following: there already is a path to citizenship. it's open to every human being on the planet. It's called "apply for a visa and follow the path to green card, then continue towards naturalization."
Given that a path already exists, are you against a path to citizenship?
So here's a better question: who is for a path to citizenship that starts with the following:
Step 1: Violate our immigration laws by sneaking over our borders.
Step 2: Violate our employment laws by taking a job without a right to work here.
Step 3: retroactively prove that you "really are a great guy/gal," and cut right to the front of the line that the law abiding applicants are following.
Is this what you want? Because that's what Rand Paul seems to be asking for.
Nice job, Rand. Just like your filibuster, another stupid idea.
Posted by: RobM1981 at March 19, 2013 08:34 AM (FgxCS)
It's not the amnesty, it's what it will take to maintain hispanic loyalty. Expanding social programs, entitlements, Spanish as a required language. Why be Republican at that point? You've dropped your conservative values, you may as well join the now entrenched winning side.
Also, I live in what used to be Rand's father's district. Did he notice while growing up in Texas how many break ins are done by illegal immigrants? How many drunk driving fatalities are cause by illegal immigrants? How many cop killings? Did he notice how many perpetrators flee to sanctuary cities, where the police can't aggressively pursue?
Posted by: Advo at March 19, 2013 08:35 AM (7vbG1)
Posted by: infovore at March 19, 2013 08:39 AM (0llFJ)
If you can provide a plan for deporting twelve million people that doesn't involve a) the Army OR the National Guard, b) separation of families [unless you're willing to deport American citizens just because their parents are here illegally, which...well, no], or c) packing people into cattle cars...as I said, if you can provide a plan that doesn't involve any of that, I'd love to hear it.
If you can't, then maybe you might not want to start kicking people off your "I'd consider him/her for President list"*...in 2013...before we know who's running and what the major issues might be.
* Except Christie. That mother-hugger's been gone from my list since Sandy.
Posted by: Demosthenes at March 19, 2013 09:43 AM (c5AtG)
We should be trying to take everyone of them we can.
Posted by: notsothoreau at March 19, 2013 10:18 AM (5HBd1)
Posted by: lurker #11 at March 19, 2013 10:24 AM (hB4H1)
Here's your plan ...
Make the electronic transfer of funds to central american countries a federal felony, unless the recipient is an American citizen. Bye-bye illegals.
Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at March 19, 2013 10:27 AM (CrJzY)
And anyone that thinks that 12-20 million illegals are actually going be deported has a very childlike view of reality.
I am a constitutional conservative. But I also believe that there should be a pathway to legalization, but NOT CITIZENSHIP.
If
you can here illegally and are not a felon then you should have to pay a
large fine, Learn english, and then you can apply for a green card.
But
you should not be allowed become a citizen and vote because you should
not end up with the exact same status as someone that followed all the
rules and came here legally(like my parents)
That is a fair solution.
Posted by: Muddywood at March 19, 2013 10:48 AM (/lJXC)
Posted by: Horrified Observer at March 19, 2013 12:08 PM (/sohm)
Posted by: nip at March 19, 2013 12:09 PM (11Tdq)
Posted by: nip at March 19, 2013 12:11 PM (11Tdq)
So your plan is to take away a liberty of American citizens, just to catch illegal immigrants. Further, your plan would possibly involve adding an additional layer of government-enacted bureaucracy to our financial system.
Yeah. No.
Next?
Posted by: Demosthenes at March 19, 2013 02:27 PM (c5AtG)
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 10:18 AM (53z96)
This list, (only one I'm a little shaky on is the asylum one, being of Ukrainian descent) plus:
- States are required to check citizenship status before granting a business licence or food handlers permit. If you're illegal, no licence or permit.
- Federal employees who know or have a reasonable suspicion that a person is applying for aid and is not legally qualified to do so and still approve them for govt assistance are fired, have their pension stripped and thrown in jail.
With unemployment at nearly 8% do we REALLY need tons of unskilled labourers anyway?
I had a good friend (software tester) who was nearly deported when he was made redundant; his two kids were born in the US and he is more patriotic than most natural born citizens I know but he was days away from being tossed back to Canada and he and his family were beside themselves with worry. I have NO SYMPATHY for people who come here illegally, with a hand out, and are disrespectful to this country (don't learn the language, etc). And frankly I am fucking SICK AND TIRED of the GOP with regard to this. They make excuses, they pander (and it's racism because its directed at ONE GROUP), and they don't focus on the fact that if the Hispanic pop is growing as an 'electorate' it's illegal and they shouldn't be voting so lets focus on making sure illegals don't vote!
Posted by: Linlithgow at March 19, 2013 11:53 PM (Gim9y)
Demosthenes (re: sending kids back)
I don't think the kids are legal in the first place.
Second, if magically they are deemed to be Americans, they can live with their parents in their home country and return (if they want), when they reach 18.
Posted by: Linlithgow at March 20, 2013 12:19 AM (Gim9y)
But let's agree for the purposes of debate that in fact, they are Americans, and that the standard interpretation of Wong Kim Ark is the correct one. What you're saying is that you would actually support the forceful (albeit temporary) expulsion of an American citizen from this country, if they were the dependent of someone who was here illegally. One wonders in what other ways you would be willing to compromise the freedoms and privileges of American citizens, solely to gratify your sense of justice.
Posted by: Demosthenes at March 20, 2013 04:16 AM (c5AtG)
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Is that a case of (1) Paul backtracking, (2) Politico lying or (3) AP lying?
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2013 05:52 AM (53z96)