January 01, 2013

Senate Tax Bill Passes House
— DrewM

257-167, 172 Dems and 85 Republicans voting yes, 151 Republicians and 16 Democrats voting no.

Here's the roll call of votes.

Big votes: Boehner vote yes as a sign of solidarity with the team. Cantor and GOP Whip McCarthy voted no but only after the bill had enough yes votes.

Voting yes....Paul Ryan. He'll undoubtedly say he was voting to keep 98% of the tax cuts but Rubio was a no in the Senate. If the GOP can't deliver big on spending cuts, a yes vote is going to look pretty bad in a few years.

Tomorrow lots of GOP apologists will tell you how great and/or necessary this vote was. Keep in mind two Republicans spoke in favor of the bill during debate...Dave Camp, Chair of Ways and Means and Ed Royce.

No Boehner, Cantor or McCarthy.

The GOP turned control of the House over to Nancy Pelosi tonight and hid.

Disgraceful.

Swell....

Obama now speaking. Says we need more spending and taxes. He won't negotiate over debt ceiling. Balance, blah, blah, blah.

When the Team Happy GOP starts telling you how great this is, remember Obama got $600 billion in taxes for free but they want you to believe in two months the GOP will get a trillion plus in cuts for no additional taxes. This is a fairy tale.

And while not getting a tax hike is good personally for a lot of people, shielding 98% of Americans from the fiscal reality of their big government votes is going to kill the country.

Posted by: DrewM at 07:09 PM | Comments (378)
Post contains 297 words, total size 2 kb.

1 1st maybe? See ya Repubs enjoy the wilderness!

Posted by: Oldcrow at January 01, 2013 07:11 PM (b6OH8)

2 Fuck them Ryan disgraced himself

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 07:12 PM (lD8ju)

3 I'm basically a party loyalist but Boehner's ability to lose as much face as possible at every opportunity means he needs to go.

Posted by: Paul at January 01, 2013 07:13 PM (g4Saz)

4 Can't wait to see what new gun control laws the Jellypubs pass in the house! It's going to be a fun 4 more years! NOT!

Posted by: Oldcrow at January 01, 2013 07:14 PM (b6OH8)

5 Boehner should have been shitcanned after the 2006 debacle He's dead meat

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 07:14 PM (lD8ju)

6 anyone have a link to the tally by member?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 01, 2013 07:14 PM (l3vZN)

7 What did this buy anybody? We'll be right back with the messed up brinkmanship real soon.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 07:15 PM (WcgMM)

8 HQ beats the NY Slime for news again. Still no post over there

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 07:15 PM (Cydud)

9 puzzy whupped, hope they enjoy themselves when the ball is spiked by obozo

Posted by: snotso at January 01, 2013 07:18 PM (9v+a9)

10 It doesn't fuking matter....a meltdown is baked in the cake....plan accordingly

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 07:18 PM (OZtuG)

11 Which is worse? Voting for the guy who tells you that he wants to raise taxes or voting for the guy who says he won't but does "for the good of the country"?

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:19 PM (0PiQ4)

12 I'm following you on Twitter Drew, and I think your big problem is that, despite yourself, you still think the country can be saved. The public *does not want* ANY spending cuts, and they will punish and drive out those who offer them. They want Free Stuff and they don't want to pay for it. Full stop. This has been made clear again and again. Just accept that it will all collapse and there is nothing you, I, the GOP, or some hypothetical conservative third party can do about it now.

Posted by: Paul at January 01, 2013 07:19 PM (g4Saz)

13 NYSE futures +250 (at time of posting) http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures/

Posted by: Moron Labe! at January 01, 2013 07:19 PM (HQX6o)

14 Drudge is asleep too

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 07:19 PM (Cydud)

15 Thank God we still have the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment..... ..wait.......what?

Posted by: Bacon Industry at January 01, 2013 07:21 PM (wqm5e)

16 Sorry, I don't get the anger.  They were supposed to do what exactly?  Taxes are going up for EVERYONE if they didn't pass this.  This limits the damage.  As to spending cuts, they can't get them, period.  They wouldn't pass the Senate and Obama would veto them.  Let's face it, this was a shit sandwich.  Unless you really think "Let it burn" i.e., let taxes go up on everyone would somehow be great for conservatives.  It wouldn't, the Dems and the MSM (birm) would just blame the GOP for tax hikes as would the public (and frankly, justifiably).  Just let it go folks, it sucks, but it is what it is.  Per Phillip Klein's column today, it's objectively bad, but relatively good.

Posted by: Bob at January 01, 2013 07:21 PM (s/Ukz)

17 I want to thank the GOP faithful for folding up a like cheap suit tonight. The measure passes in the house. Now maybe, you folks will begin to realize there ain't one thread of difference between their side and yours. It's all one mongrel dog party but then...a few of us have known that for quite awhile.

Posted by: Frankenstein Government at January 01, 2013 07:21 PM (GOG1H)

18 Well first things first, was this a bad deal yes it was and yes Boehner needs to be told the only way he even thinks he might get to keep his seat is to step aside gracefully. Next stop spending money...period!! We need to crash the economy and make sure that there is little to no economic growth as long as Obama and the Dems hold power. If you employ people find out if any are lefties and fire them. Make sure that you avoid doing any business with anyone you know is a Democrat or any business that supports Democrat candidates or causes. We need to go Galt as much as possible.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at January 01, 2013 07:23 PM (RmKKm)

19 Ryan continues his career as a smooth-talking, limited government fraud. (Medicare D, No Child Left Behind, TARP, debt ceiling, etc.)

Posted by: MlR at January 01, 2013 07:23 PM (vR2l5)

20 Oils up Dow up The dumbasses think that bankruptcy is good for business

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 07:24 PM (lD8ju)

21 So there are 151 more or less people worth a shit in the House Im not including Cantor He's a worm

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 07:25 PM (lD8ju)

22 We will all be equal soon. That's the good news. Crafty people will rise again. That's how this works.

Posted by: Uncle Mcnasty's boxer briefs at January 01, 2013 07:26 PM (Ferl1)

23 https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO has the votes

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:27 PM (piMMO)

24 Pissed off muthakuck here already...and then, this morning, when I heard on the radio (KFI 640) where they was playing an excerpt of a recent Obama speech, where he said, not quoting here - something like "...the brave men and women of _____ (insert branch of service here) FIGHTING ON MY BEHALF..." Did anyone else here this or of it? Sorry, still typin with shaking hands and raging heart.... We are so screwed

Posted by: Bacon Industry at January 01, 2013 07:27 PM (wqm5e)

25

Ryan's "yes" is all you needed to know about Romney, but were afraid to ask.  But I digress.

I just turned anti-GOP tonight.  Before this, I was only disdainful.  They've thrown every fight.  Let the "yessirs" burn in the primaries, but even that's too little, too late.

Posted by: Born Free at January 01, 2013 07:27 PM (jnJcf)

26 A mail-in campaign once monthly until 2014: http://t.co/lhndXqJ0

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:28 PM (piMMO)

27 BWAHH..

"good for the middle class"?!?  They will the first one screwed!  The payroll tax increase is the easiest and most obviously thing people will see, and it will be reflected in the FIRST paycheck they get this year!

Can't wait to hear complaints from lefties who see their paychecks shrink, and it will be within the next 2 weeks!

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 07:28 PM (3Kxux)

28 21 So there are 151 more or less people worth a shit in the House

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 11:25 PM (lD8ju)


Most of those 151 would have voted yes if their votes were needed.

Posted by: schizoid at January 01, 2013 07:29 PM (nVrSX)

29 I REPEAT IT IS BAKED IN THE CAKE!!! if by some miracle we could even get we want it wouldn't be enough. We are past the financial point of return. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. And it'd be cool if NIU would beat Fl State..

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 07:30 PM (OZtuG)

30 The dumbasses think that bankruptcy is good for business Not necessarily true. They may think that inflation is coming to cover the debt.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at January 01, 2013 07:30 PM (CeNUw)

31 Good to see that these sphincters extended the redistribution of wealth through the "un"earned income tax credit.

Posted by: TexBob at January 01, 2013 07:31 PM (pUOpM)

32 John Boehner reminds me of Bucky LaGrange. He hasn't had a hit in EVER.

Posted by: major major major major at January 01, 2013 07:31 PM (utCAk)

33 Oh, also, Happy New Year! and since this is AoS, a big F U too!

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:32 PM (0PiQ4)

34 A. B. Stoddard: "We will be at the brink...all the time."

That's the result of all this nonsense.

And sooner rather than later, the brink will win.

Posted by: PJ at January 01, 2013 07:33 PM (ZWaLo)

35 More bad news - swell finally shows tomorrow and I gotta be at the office by 9:30 am....Fuck 2013 already

Posted by: Bacon Industry at January 01, 2013 07:33 PM (wqm5e)

36 27 said this but for whatever reason neither side cared about extending the payroll tax cut

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 07:34 PM (8HhF2)

37 cares

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 07:35 PM (8HhF2)

38 Not necessarily true. They may think that inflation is coming to cover the debt.


Don't be timid about it. Interest rates will rise with inflation. Best to go for double digits!!

Posted by: fluffy put the "nom" in economics at January 01, 2013 07:35 PM (z9HTb)

39

"Keep in mind two Republicans spoke in favor of the bill during debate...Dave Camp, Chair of Ways and Means and Ed Royce."

 

Boehner didn't step up and speak for it? Not exactly a profile in courage. At least be man enough to own it, you fucking tool. That's what leaders do.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 07:35 PM (vtiE6)

40 a big f u to you to you too!!! I think i'll have a double crown and coke

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 07:37 PM (OZtuG)

41 The strange minds of the leftists are telling them that Obama caved on this. That's of course preposterous (what did the GOP win here, at all?). But this reaction is yet another symptom of how unhinged from reality they've become. It is really dangerous when a party becomes so divorced from reality as the left has become. There's almost a duty in opposition, to keep the train from totally going off the rails when the bend comes. From where I sit, it seems we're hurtling along nicely, completely unchecked. On all fronts, not just uneconomic. Can't be good.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 07:37 PM (WcgMM)

42 ROFL @ Paul Ryan, wow

Posted by: Andrew at January 01, 2013 07:38 PM (HS3dy)

43 All part of the 100 year long plan to end the two party system and make it one. So it does not matter who you vote in or out you get the same results.

How about the rightosphere write its own bill over themes it wants. There is no conservative creed. The left has Alinsky the right has nothing but Grover and that sucks. One group sees this bill as just fine for their copy of conservative creed and others not quite sure. If they they voted No, over the cliff and blame we go. There was no other bill to vote for this or cliff that will win that is part of the system they have made. If they put in the amendment and sent it back to the senate over the cliff and blame we go as they would not vote for it. The House still is the weakest camber of the three. The Senate is where bills go to die. Remember that when a RINO loss is what prevernted a GOP takeover of the Senate in 14'

Posted by: White Cat at January 01, 2013 07:38 PM (Ea64Y)

44 obama just finished his speech, last senrtance he managed to mention gun control and global warming/climate change.

Posted by: Buffalobob at January 01, 2013 07:39 PM (x+7qA)

45

A big victory for the Middle Class.  Yay us.

 

Why do I feel sick about this?

 

Heading for the wall, and they all jump on the accelerator.

 

Forward!!

 

Thud!

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes.... at January 01, 2013 07:40 PM (Md8Uo)

46 "When the Team Happy GOP starts telling you how great this is, remember Obama got $600 billion in taxes for free but they want you to believe in two months the GOP will get a trillion plus in cuts for no additional taxes. This is a fairy tale."

But a good night for the Purists. Tea Party 2013.

Posted by: mrp at January 01, 2013 07:40 PM (HjPtV)

47 I'll try not to become a broken record, but you can argue all you want about how our representatives should vote and what steps should be taken legislatively, but until we make our case to the public none of that will ever happen. The public voted for this. The public wanted this. The public wanted even more than this given that Obama ran on tax increases for people making +250k. Yes, they voted for our guys in the House too, but in doing that they voted for a bunch of moderate squishes who acted accordingly. Remember Milton Friedman: The solution to our problems is not to elect the right men. It's to create an environment where we intimidate the guys we elect into doing the right thing. A portion of the Republican Party is intimidated into doing the right thing. Another portion isn't because their constituents don't get it. Their constituents intimidate them into doing the wrong thing. Until we convince their constituents, nothing will change. Yeah, I know media bias is a hell of a hurdle, but our leadership isn't even trying to make this argument. *That* is what John Boehner deserves blame for, not this vote.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 07:40 PM (9S5LR)

48 The only thing encouraging about this is that Boehner was in a minority.  Now we need to work hard to get all 85 of those men removed from office in 2 years.  And any man that voted no and doesn't vote to remove Boehner, add them to the list too.

Posted by: Andrew at January 01, 2013 07:41 PM (HS3dy)

49 fluffy, interest rates can't rise again. Not in the foreseeable future. Not with $360B per year in interest payments, and $1T in new borrowing expected per year. We're boxed in.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 07:41 PM (WcgMM)

50 "Sorry, I don't get the anger. They were supposed to do what exactly?"

People just cope differently.  It's clear the country wants this crap, or at the least still blames Bush more than the left, but some are still clinging to the idea that the country is center-right and all that it'll take is a savior from heaven to save the GOP.

Posted by: Shoot Me at January 01, 2013 07:42 PM (qiXMt)

51 Fucking commies.  It seems we don't have to wait for the house to turn D in 2014 after all... we already have one-party rule.  Sure, the ostensibly small-government reps will fight hard on the debt ceiling nyuk nyuk.

Instead of doing the right thing we get a fistfuck.  At least the sequester cut fucking something.  SOMETHING.  Should have refused to play and let it burn.

Posted by: the botnet at January 01, 2013 07:42 PM (6PDiu)

52 Big swinging package, Double crown and coke, comin right up.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:43 PM (0PiQ4)

53 a Pyrrhic victory for an economically illiterate village idiot in the WH. 

Lower growth, less real jobs, bigger govt, uncle Ben and the Fed print the US dollar into oblivion  to make up for the lost revenue, lowering standard of living massively for everyone who works.

Let the whole thing burn faster. There is no way of saving this anymore.

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 07:44 PM (3Kxux)

54 fluffy, interest rates can't rise again. Not in the foreseeable future. Not with $360B per year in interest payments, and $1T in new borrowing expected per year.We're boxed in.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 11:41 PM (WcgMM)

There comes a time when the Fed has no say in interest rates.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at January 01, 2013 07:44 PM (nZvGM)

55 "When the Team Happy GOP starts telling you how great this is, remember Obama got $600 billion in taxes for free but they want you to believe in two months the GOP will get a trillion plus in cuts for no additional taxes. This is a fairy tale." The GOP needed the Dems' cooperation to keep any tax cuts this time around. They need nothing two months from now. They just sit on their ass and they get those cuts. Yeah, I'm not going to bet a cent on it yet, because te media firestorm will be hell, but it's a different dynamic--they actually get something two months from now by not acquiescing in addition to letting it burn.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 07:45 PM (9S5LR)

56

They broke it, we bought it. Every person that voted for it should be voted out of office. It was done one before and it can be done again until we get it right.

Posted by: harleycowboy at January 01, 2013 07:45 PM (+9AX9)

57 Most of those 151 would have voted yes if their votes were needed. ***** I am reminded of Tim Scott laying back on a vote last year, stating aloud that he was waiting to see if his vote was needed before casting it. I developed a bad taste for him at that moment.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:45 PM (piMMO)

58 Republican no votes were political cover.  They indicated long ago they were going to go for this.  I'm not all that optimistic about the spending cut negotiations, but I will wait to pass judgment on this whole deal until then.

Posted by: Hey-Zeus at January 01, 2013 07:48 PM (5Jhmf)

59 Re[publicans are flat on their back.  They might as well just shut up and quit pretending they have any balls.  Conservatives have no champions.

Posted by: Ohio Dan at January 01, 2013 07:48 PM (JKNDp)

60 (54) There comes a time when the Fed has no say in interest rates.

Posted by: somebody else, not me

That'd be TSHTF moment. Which can, and likely will, happen, yes.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 07:48 PM (WcgMM)

61 Oh well, buckle up, the ride's about to get a little bumpy.

Posted by: Gmac - Waiting for the revolution at January 01, 2013 07:49 PM (IanLz)

62 Ditto NDH on Tim Scott. Sigh. It doesn't even hurt to sigh anymore like it used too. Improvement!

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:49 PM (0PiQ4)

63 Whatever
h
o

C
a
r
e
s
?

Posted by: Typical American voter at January 01, 2013 07:49 PM (u3N3z)

64
Cool.  Where's my free stuff?

Posted by: Typical Democrat at January 01, 2013 07:51 PM (u3N3z)

65 I wrote in a earlier entry to go to Speaker.Gov and tell Boehner how much we republicans are upset with this caving and suggested to him that someone else do the debt ceiling debate instead of him. I wasn't as nasty as I could have been. I should have told him that TFG is our enemy and we have to fight and that someone with balls has to say NO to any increase in the debt ceiling. I read ONOT and didn't comment, our government is going bankrupt after it was translated w/o billions into household incomes.

Posted by: CarolT at January 01, 2013 07:51 PM (z4WKX)

66 You do, Typical American Voter. That's why you post here.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:52 PM (0PiQ4)

67 interest rates can't rise again. Not in the foreseeable future. Not with $360B per year in interest payments, and $1T in new borrowing expected per year.We're boxed in.


Never say never. It would make a bad situation worse, but as somebody else said, There comes a time when the Fed has no say in interest rates.


We have always been in debt to Eastasia.

Posted by: fluffy put the at January 01, 2013 07:52 PM (z9HTb)

68 Chavez said to be in coma, near death.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 07:52 PM (ZPrif)

69 Chavez said to be in coma, near death.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 11:52 PM


I'm beyond cheering up, but thanks for trying.

Posted by: huerfano at January 01, 2013 07:53 PM (bAGA/)

70

I don't get all the angst. If you didn't know this basic deal was coming all along, where have you been hiding?

 

 

And if you are still registered Republican, I don't get that either. Can't you at least do a tiny protest and send a message by registering as an independent. You can still vote for any  Republican  you  favor.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 01, 2013 07:54 PM (1Y+hH)

71

The debt ceiling is going to be raised.  Better get used to that idea.  The only question is: what will the Republicans get in return?

Posted by: Hey-Zeus at January 01, 2013 07:54 PM (5Jhmf)

72 I just changed my party affiliation on my voter registration online. I suggest everyone do the same. Changed it from "Republican" to "Conservative". I no longer want to be associated with spineless cowards.

Posted by: Sho Nuff at January 01, 2013 07:54 PM (jo0fs)

73 Here comes the hose again!

Posted by: fluffy puts the lotion on his sock puppet at January 01, 2013 07:55 PM (z9HTb)

74 And if you are still registered Republican, I don't get that either. Can't you at least do a tiny protest and send a message by registering as an independent. You can still vote for any Republican you favor. **** The close primary system in my state has something to do with that

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:55 PM (piMMO)

75 Flatbush Joe gets 1st best news for 2013! Yay Flatbush Joe! And thank you. God is alive, I know this now.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 07:55 PM (0PiQ4)

76 closed

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:56 PM (piMMO)

77 We must selectively pick which people to purge from the party. In this case it needs to be Boehner. We need to have a Tea Party person ready to go, with money. We need to be ready to loss the seat...we need to be more then ready we need to shout it from the roof tops that we are willing to lose the seat just to make sure Boehner is gone! That will put the fear of God into them. Next as I have stated before we must all actively do everything we can to crash the economy now on our own terms so that by 2014 we can point to the disaster and blame it all on the left. That means shut of your personal non essential spending and economic activity. Let it burn!!!!!!

Posted by: southdakotaboy at January 01, 2013 07:56 PM (RmKKm)

78 What maddens: this was a debate about the BUSH tax cuts, that goblin of Democrat dreams. They hated them from day one. The only reason they weren't permanent was because of the Dems. They blamed the Bush recession on them. Kerry ran against them in 2004. They even blame the Great Recession on them. When Obama extended them two years ago, he did so reluctantly and with apologies to his left (who were furious). Word was, the prosperity of the Clinton years would return but for the Bush tax cuts. And in the end those tax cuts wound up being YET ANOTHER Bush policy the Dems have seen fit to largely uphold. It is amazing what a bugaboo, dopplenganger Bush is to them. November's exit poll found Dems still blaming the current climate on him. Yet they never saw a Bush policy they didn't embrace. And where they have messed up (Arab Spring, the Green Economy, etc), is where they haven't had Bush's blueprints to guide them. Amazing, really. Defies belief.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 07:56 PM (WcgMM)

79 Ran into Pelosi, asked her about deal. “I’m very pleased,” she said. “It’s a victory for Democrats, and the president and the middle class.”— Rebecca Berg (@rebeccagberg) January 2, 2013

Considering the amount of time Biden spent twisting the arms of Senate and House Democrats, I doubt her sincerity.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 07:56 PM (YjDyJ)

80 Here comes the hose again! **** I shouldn't laugh, but I did

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 07:57 PM (piMMO)

81 "Voting yes....Paul Ryan"

No one should have been looking at or thinking of Ryan as a 2016 shot anyway.

The GOP has developed an irritating habit of tolerating and promoting failure.

The new rule should be: fail, and be driven weeping into outer darkness.

In 2012, for President, the GOP decided that their champion to run against Obama would be the guy who lost the 2008 primaries to the guy who lost to Obama. Worked out great, huh? Retreads FTW!

There have been times in the past that Democrats have recycled failures, and it didn't work out well for them, either. Walter Mondale served as VP to Carter just as Ryan would have done for Romney. After Carter-Mondale lost in 1980, Dems recycled Mondale in 1984 rather than looking for a fresh face. Mondale was then beaten like a rented mule by Reagan.

If people know that their entire careers and futures ride on a single election, and that they'll face disgrace and obscurity if they don't win that single grab at the ring, then they will, count on it, start to compete with much greater intensity.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 07:57 PM (gqT4g)

82 Son of a Gun! Frank Wolf R-10th Virginia voted no.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 01, 2013 07:57 PM (l3vZN)

83 A nice FUCK YOU to all the dumbasses in Congress and their supporters here who blocked the $1 million cut off last week. Romney's getting 330+ right? RIGHT?????

Posted by: Jaydee at January 01, 2013 07:57 PM (E5DLT)

84

From Politico breaking news email a few minutes ago:

 

"However, he [President Obama] warned Congress that there could be "catastrophic" consequences for the global economy if there was not an agreement reached on the debt ceiling.

"While I will negotiate over many things, I will not have another debate with this Congress over whether they should pay the bills for what they've racked up," Obama said. "We can't not pay bills that we've already incurred.""

 

'What they've racked up,' he said, and presumably when he said 'this Congress' he meant 'these Republicans'. Inhale its bouquet. Roll it around on your tongue. Savor the flavor of wormwood and gall. Swallow.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 07:58 PM (vtiE6)

85 Knock me over with feather : both my previous congressman and my current one voted 'no'. (Census redistricting, ya know)

Every time I'm ready to write either of them off as useless wasters of oxygen they pull off something laudatory like that.

Posted by: Lessons from the Ceramic Throne at January 01, 2013 07:58 PM (rz0yi)

86

"The close primary system in my state has something to do with that"

 

 

 

Lucky dawg. You can change registration at will though, so think about it. Register in time to vote the primary, and then back to indy the rest of time. They aren't going to worry unless their numbers shrink.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 01, 2013 07:58 PM (1Y+hH)

87 Well, I guess we couldn't have expected much, given the libs control half of CONgress and the White House. Like much of the next four years, I will wish it just to be over, like I m glad this is over. What's the point? Oh geez this is going to be a LONG four decades (the tenure of Obozos coming SCOTUS picks).

Posted by: Baldy at January 01, 2013 07:58 PM (opS9C)

88 I'm on my 3rd double crown and coke and since a niu win over the Seminole hot dog gangsters looks unlikely I am clicking over to Tosh.O on comedy channel or storage wars marathon on A&E..Life is good. fuck politics

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 07:59 PM (OZtuG)

89 That'd be TSHTF moment. Which can, and likely will, happen, yes.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 11:48 PM (WcgMM)

Ahh yes.  And it will be so interesting and pafuckingthetic to witness the finger pointing.  Of course it will be the teathuglican who didn't allow the commies to spend enough to save us all.  

Maybe the whole thing could've been averted if only we built a high-speed train from Utica to Schenectady.  Damned mouth-breathers hate them some inframastructure, and prevented that whole panacea of revenue from the choo-choo and shit.

Posted by: the botnet at January 01, 2013 07:59 PM (6PDiu)

90 I don't care what you say. I will be supporting Rand Paul should he chose to run.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:00 PM (piMMO)

91 Guys, we've all known Americans were never going to own up to their share of the government they keep demanding we expand.  Let It Burn doesn't work; even when the shit hits the fan, we will be blamed and those in power will see to it they keep getting theirs at our expense.  They can do that for a very long time; look at North Korea. 

We either secede and fight now, or we live forever with Obama's boot on our necks.  After this, nobody should be stupid enough to think a solution lies within the political system, and Let It Burn is a crisis this government will not let go to waste, at our expense. 

Fight, or accept this way of governing forever.  If anyone has an actual alternative that doesn't involve us going to the hills and magically coming back to a world that would let us rebuild, I'm all ears. 

Posted by: Aaron at January 01, 2013 08:01 PM (Tlix5)

92

No prob Neid, we each get to do things our own way.

 

 

 

For now. 

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 01, 2013 08:02 PM (1Y+hH)

93 Next as I have stated before we must all actively do everything we can to crash the economy now on our own terms so that by 2014 we can point to the disaster and blame it all on the left.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at January 01, 2013 11:56 PM (RmKKm)

 

Er, southdakotaboy? We can point in any direction we want but the Left owns the press. Blame for any negative outcome falls on the Republicans.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 08:02 PM (vtiE6)

94 Ryan's statement RE his aye vote- http://1.usa.gov/12X45qg

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 08:03 PM (YjDyJ)

95

"'What they've racked up,' he said, and presumably when he said 'this Congress' he meant 'these Republicans'. Inhale its bouquet. Roll it around on your tongue. Savor the flavor of wormwood and gall. Swallow."

 

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 11:58 PM (vtiE6)

 

And the piece of shit media will not call him on it.

Posted by: Hey-Zeus at January 01, 2013 08:03 PM (5Jhmf)

96 90 I don't care what you say. I will be supporting Rand Paul should he chose to run. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 02, 2013 12:00 AM (piMMO) It's really funny to compare what I would have thought of somebody who said "I support Ron Paul's son for President" in 2008 vs. now.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 08:04 PM (9S5LR)

97 Venezuela is now officially denying the rumors. Reports are Chavez is in a coma and they are debating whether to pull the plug. His henchmen say, no, Chavez is conscious and in a "delicate" condition.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 08:04 PM (ZPrif)

98

Ah well, time to forget politics, crank up my Fender Bass and make a little thunder...

 

 

Push on, morons.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 01, 2013 08:05 PM (1Y+hH)

99 43
How about the rightosphere write its own bill over themes it wants. There is no conservative creed. The left has Alinsky the right has nothing but Grover and that sucks.
Posted by: White Cat at January 01, 2013 11:38 PM (Ea64Y)

You might try the Sharon Statement:
http://www2.fiu.edu/~yaf/sharon.html

Posted by: Lessons from the Ceramic Throne at January 01, 2013 08:05 PM (rz0yi)

100 Well would it make any difference if they voted just the tax cuts in one bill but then in another completely different bill voted for the spending and then some. Becuse that is what they do all the time.

They won and make them own it. Well this is still one way.

Posted by: White Cat at January 01, 2013 08:06 PM (Ea64Y)

101 38 Not necessarily true. They may think that inflation is coming to cover the debt. Don't be timid about it. Interest rates will rise with inflation. Best to go for double digits!! Posted by: fluffy put the "nom" in economics at January 01, 2013 11:35 PM (z9HTb) I toldya we needed a repeat of my policies.

Posted by: I'm jimmy, a peanut farmer at January 01, 2013 08:06 PM (/b8+5)

102 "We either secede and fight now, or we live forever with Obama's boot on our necks. After this, nobody should be stupid enough to think a solution lies within the political system, and Let It Burn is a crisis this government will not let go to waste, at our expense.

Fight, or accept this way of governing forever. If anyone has an actual alternative that doesn't involve us going to the hills and magically coming back to a world that would let us rebuild, I'm all ears."

Posted by: Aaron at January 02, 2013 12:01 AM (Tlix5)

 

Secession isn't the answer since loyalties are not, by and large, state-based. Must admit I liked the fight part, though.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 08:06 PM (vtiE6)

103 Son of a Gun! Frank Wolf R-10th Virginia voted no. Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 01, 2013 11:57 PM (l3vZN) There was a whole assfull of votes that were face savers after the whips got the count. It is impossible to tell any of their hearts when they are all trying to play us.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:07 PM (l86i3)

104 "I will be supporting Rand Paul should he chose to run."

I'd back Aqua Buddha, to be sure. (And he might get some of the collegiate stoner vote.)

He has some sharp edges on him for Democrats to beware. Hasn't been emasculated yet by the bland consultantocracy. His comments on Ashley Judd proposing to run for the Senate from Kentucky, about how he thought she was going to be standing for Parliament in Scotland (where she spends half her time) were both funny and seriously politically damaging to her.

I doubt that Rand would have sat there passively while Uncle Joe went off his meds in the VP debate, the way that Paul Ryan did. That behavior would have been called out by Rand.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 08:07 PM (gqT4g)

105 OT: Has Obama issued  statement about Hillary's health? He isssues statements or makes speeches about EVERYTHING, but I seem to have missed this one.

Posted by: Baldy at January 01, 2013 08:08 PM (opS9C)

106 It's really funny to compare what I would have thought of somebody who said "I support Ron Paul's son for President" in 2008 vs. now. **** I know! Seriously!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:08 PM (piMMO)

107 Collapse, its what's for dinner.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 08:09 PM (hc3eM)

108 Seems to me we are all worked up after the first round of a three round fight. GOP had the weak hand here. Do nothing and taxes skyrocket on everyone, compromise on a few Trillion of change in outyear spending and 60 days of sequestration delay and we get: Permanent Bush tax rates for 87% of the population Permanent fix for the AMT (A GOP Dream for a long time) In round two and three of this fight (Sequestration and Debt Ceiling) the GOP hold the cards where doing nothing cuts spending. The Dems will be much more desperate for a deal then and with Joe Public's tax drama out of the limelight, the House can be a LOT more persnickety... might even get back some of the money they spent today... Save judgement on the GOP until all three rounds are over

Posted by: Canyon Matt at January 01, 2013 08:09 PM (EfkW2)

109 Wolf's no was surprising because he represents increasingly blue NoVa-- land of government employees.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 01, 2013 08:10 PM (l3vZN)

110 Save judgement on the GOP until all three rounds are over Posted by: Canyon Matt at January 02, 2013 12:09 AM (EfkW2) When you get knocked out in the first round, there is no two or three.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:10 PM (l86i3)

111 Save judgement on the GOP until all three rounds are over Posted by: Canyon Matt at January 02, 2013 12:09 AM (EfkW2) I recently acquired a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn, it's old but mint would you consider purchasing it, I'll give you a good price?

Posted by: Caustic at January 01, 2013 08:11 PM (/b8+5)

112 "Ryan's statement RE his aye vote- http://1.usa.gov/12X45qg"

I thought Ryan's statement was already voiced by Wally:

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1997-12-25/

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 08:12 PM (gqT4g)

113
Ha.  This is almost comical.  TFG tells them right up front no negotiation on the debt ceiling.  The repubs will pretend they didn't hear it and give away more to him.

My prediction, an even $1.6T in debt ceiling raise.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 08:12 PM (69Mdf)

114 what OSP said.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 08:13 PM (0PiQ4)

115

The Republicans haven't been knocked out.  I agree with Matt.  They lost the election and had to negotiate a deal as best they could under the circumstances.  LIB was never an option.  They conceded the first round a long time ago.  Let's see how they do in the coming rounds.

 

I do think a change in leadership is in order, however (replace Boehner).

Posted by: Hey-Zeus at January 01, 2013 08:14 PM (5Jhmf)

116 @robertcostaNRO As I'm writing my post, look who shows up in press gallery for impromptu bipartisan Sandy presser pic.twitter.com/b2e5Fe2P

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:15 PM (piMMO)

117 New motto: "If it's broke, don't fix it."

Posted by: USS CONSTITUTION at January 01, 2013 08:15 PM (KqwSL)

118 Boehner should be kicked out on his ass, and reduced to making a living shaking farts out of bed sheets at a chinese laundry.

Posted by: Berserker at January 01, 2013 08:16 PM (FMbng)

119 Happy New Year! By Happy New Year, I mean, make it suck less than last year.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (0PiQ4)

120 Remember Milton Friedman: The solution to our problems is not to elect the right men. It's to create an environment where we intimidate the guys we elect into doing the right thing.

A portion of the Republican Party is intimidated into doing the right thing. Another portion isn't because their constituents don't get it. Their constituents intimidate them into doing the wrong thing.

Until we convince their constituents, nothing will change. Yeah, I know media bias is a hell of a hurdle, but our leadership isn't even trying to make this argument. *That* is what John Boehner deserves blame for, not this vote.

Than how do you explain my outgoing Congressman Brian Bilbray (voted out, by the way) voting for this abomination of a bill?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (kqqGm)

121 So, I guess this clears Obama's schedule to work nonstop on gun control.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (Rwrs+)

122 Well you could always run west in America before. The political machines were all in the east and that's as far as their reach could effectively reach. De Tocqueville was amazed at how well half of America used to work, with no sign of the federal governement in sight. That geographic escape valve is gone now. Maybe Alaska. Maybe. Hawaii sure as hell is out. As is California, Oregon, Washington (ie., the whole west coast). Colorado's toast. Arizona's on the way (good God, Napolitano?). Harry Reid's Nevada? How about Idaho, Montana, Utah? All half owned and operated by the feds anyway. They're equivalent to W. VA., TN or KY at this point. These are the days of interior frontiers. But we'd good to find them where they are. That's a more defensible (and offensive) position than being scattered about as red cell isolates among the sea of blue urban orbits.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (WcgMM)

123 We need a second party.

Posted by: Moron Labe! at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (wNsNP)

124 I doubt that Rand would have sat there passively while Uncle Joe went off his meds in the VP debate, the way that Paul Ryan did. That behavior would have been called out by Rand. **** He has a way of cutting to the quick and doing so with such charm and humor that it can almost escape you that he's doing it. And...I will never forget him talking about low-flow toilets on the Senate floor.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:17 PM (piMMO)

125 Don't complain. You supported and voted for this treatment. Pragmatism.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 08:18 PM (CCHli)

126 I just read Ryans statement, "Had to make the tough Choices", "Did the best for the most people", "Americans chose divided government" "We must exercise prudence", Really? Well pretty boy, you just took 600 billion of our money and shoved it up a hogs ass while we were screaming no. Many people lost there jobs with your vote today, but your families ok, right? Fuck you Paul Ryan.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:19 PM (l86i3)

127 I think someone posted this (here?) a day or two ago, worth repeating: Bob Owens: What You'll See in the Rebellion http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/12/what-youll-see-in-the-rebellion/ On another board, some folks are discussing the secret merits of pig farming. I'll spare you all the details.

Posted by: Moron Labe! at January 01, 2013 08:19 PM (wNsNP)

128 Keep supporting them and they'll do the same until you recognize the pattern. Threaten them and they'll shit on your face like you're 'tea party' scum. You moved left. You called it strategy. You called it enlightenment. You called it the path to victory. Lick your arm, and tell me what flavor you are, you big 'individually wrapped and packed in a bag' suckers.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 08:21 PM (CCHli)

129 The point of preventing any "deal" was to make everyone pay some taxes and get some skin in the game whether they like it or not. People who don"t pay federal taxes think an incompetent federal govt won't effect them. Make all pay, make all bleed, make more people pay attention to what Barry and his pals are doing- making THEIR rich ever richer via crony capitalism, all at the expense of the private sector.

Posted by: DanL60 at January 01, 2013 08:21 PM (qcJ8O)

130 "The Republicans haven't been knocked out. I agree with Matt. They lost the election and had to negotiate a deal as best they could under the circumstances. LIB was never an option."

What was an option was to start playing media politics.

The GOP have opted over and over again for closed door negotiations with Obama and they've limped out bleeding from the ass every time.

How about, for starters, stopping doing that? Insist on fully public negotiations. Remind the public that Obama loves to promise exactly that and then renege. Insist that he live up to the promise of transparency.

And then force them to swallow some poison pills in exchange for concessions.

Here's a great one. The refusal of the Senate to pass a budget since the spring of 2009 actually violates federal law. And the Democrats don't find it easy to agree on Senate budgeting. Obama's last budget he sent up to the Hill failed 99-0.

So make them chew on that. The House could have put up a proposal to amend the 1974 budget act that requires a budget, so that it will henceforth contain federal criminal penalties for noncompliance. Harry Reid can't get a budget in on time? Harry goes to federal prison.

Of course the Democrats would have to vote that down. And then live with the bad PR of being serial lawbreakers.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 08:22 PM (gqT4g)

131 I live in an up-scale town that voted for the Jug-Eared-Fuck over Romney. Buncha hankey-sniffing smahties, all sucking off the public tit one way or the other.

I plan to unfriend every Obama voter I know.

I started by turning down an annual Xmas eve dinner invitation to Chez Sonweed from a witless liveral [as in Low Information Voter] drone.

She's someone who has never held a responsible position in her life,  and suffers from the political version of Tourette's syndrome; every year she spoils dinner by flinging snot at conservatives and Republicans (all the same to her), irrespective of her guests' point-of-view.

[Her husband, OTOH, is smart, funny, a genuine nice guy --- and an achiever.  He obviously married down.]

Christmas Eve night, with half her usual guests AWOL, I hope she muttered into her plate about the lack of conviviality (due to the Sonweeds' absence) as she wolfed down a third helping of her usual undercooked hand-made linguini.

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at January 01, 2013 08:22 PM (HVtRc)

132 @BailofRights Hey girl, it's @PaulRyan, and I just voted to increase your taxes.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:22 PM (piMMO)

133

He won't negotiate over debt ceiling.

 

Then all Boehner needs to do to redeem himself and the GOP is not turn up to any 'negotiations'.  He should announce that there is no point whatsoever.

 

Yes, I know, I live in the land of Oz.

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 08:23 PM (TJQ3a)

134 Boehner's anus is big enough to drive a train through. He got reamed sooooooooooo bad. Screw the rat bastard. His legacy is cast in concrete as just another douche-bag Washington insider who is in way over his head. This is one more sad day for the republic.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 01, 2013 08:25 PM (n8LUb)

135 OSP, I repeat myself, which is worse? Voting for the guy who tells you he wants to raise taxes for the good of the country or voting for the guy who tells you he won't raise taxes but has to for the good of the country? it's hard to tell the difference anymore.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 08:25 PM (0PiQ4)

136 OSP, I repeat myself, which is worse? Voting for the guy who tells you he wants to raise taxes for the good of the country or voting for the guy who tells you he won't raise taxes but has to for the good of the country? it's hard to tell the difference anymore. Posted by: L, elle at January 02, 2013 12:25 AM (0PiQ4) Hmm, liars that give us hope vs a truth teller, Hmm.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:27 PM (l86i3)

137 I am so angry and frustrated that there is nothing I can do! Boehner is counting on folks forgetting he is a traitor and Obama is dancing on our heads and delighted he has taken down the Republican Party. I hate Obama and I hate Boehner. I hate all the rest because they would have voted yes if need be. They were just given cover! The frustration at having no way to fight this is killing me.

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 08:27 PM (aT/Cc)

138 AnnaS, the fight was lost in November.

Posted by: Hey-Zeus at January 01, 2013 08:28 PM (5Jhmf)

139

A. B. Stoddard: "We will be at the brink...all the time."

 

And every few days/weeks another Republican will be thrown over the edge to keep the MSM fed.  What does this remind me of?  Oh, yeah, the Moloch and the Eloi.

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 08:29 PM (TJQ3a)

140

Chavez said to be in coma, near death.


No doubt Barack and Michelle are busy choosing their wardrobe for the state funeral.


Have to show the proper mourning and respect to the dead, after all.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 01, 2013 08:31 PM (o1kXv)

141 1) This is a 4th down situation...punt or go for it. Punt was the correct decision. Now nobody can claim that the GOP didn't work with Obama and nobody can bitch about taxes...they have been dealt with. DONE. 2) Now, when we start hitting debt ceilings, there should be no more discussion about taxes. Those were "done" and everything should be about spending cuts. The public will be far more agreeable to the GOP saying "we already compromised on taxes" Obama will not look good asking for MORE taxes, either, because people will start to figure it out that they are NEXT. Right now Obama could claim that no, naw, never would he raise taxes except on the rich. 3) If we run into a recession now, the GOP can say they played ball and it must be Obamacare, high deficits, and regulations that caused it, not some mythical fiscal cliff. 4) We would never have gotten Let It Burn. That would require extreme balls. 5) After the election it has become clear to me that the public has no idea what's going on. I don't think that dying on this hill right now would have made things clearer. I know I am being optimistic, so when we cave on the debt ceiling, I'll be slitting my wrists with the rest of you. I don't think anyone but political junkies cares who did what or got what out of this "deal"

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 08:31 PM (dZQh7)

142 The frustration at having no way to fight this is killing me. Posted by: AnnaS at January 02, 2013 12:27 AM (aT/Cc) It's ok, we are out of money, Obama and the crew are writing bad checks. Soon reality will catch up. You can't get something for nothing in perpetuity. When it crashes we will be on the side of the riotous and well armed.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:31 PM (l86i3)

143 Posted by: torquewrench at January 02, 2013 12:12 AM (gqT4g)

He has challenged the SCOAMT to his face, has been a strong advocate of certain reforms while a majority of the party chose to hide behind their desks, and is responsible for dragging the party right on entitlement reform. You cannot do all those things without a spine.  

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 08:31 PM (YjDyJ)

144 I can no longer believe that the Republicans are an opposition party. They are the good cop in the room and nothing more. It's a scam.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 08:31 PM (CCHli)

145 So... the Death Panels have started and the Republicans have voluntarily signed up? Good for them.

Looking forward to a new party.

Hate politics, and will hate the next four years.

Posted by: shibumi at January 01, 2013 08:32 PM (z63Tr)

146
"And while not getting a tax hike is good personally for a lot of people, shielding 98% of Americans from the fiscal reality of their big government votes is going to kill the country. "

Keep in mind that this is what America wants.
This is why The One was reelected.
Don't be so hard on the politicians in Washington as they are doing precisely what their constituents elected them to do.
This is what "Let them burns" means: that they get exactly what they deserve

Posted by: RayJ at January 01, 2013 08:33 PM (LYiL5)

147 Damn, there is a band on Leno that sounds like early eighties new wave. Whats old is new again.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:33 PM (l86i3)

148 Hey, look at what I just passed.

Posted by: Boehner's Anus at January 01, 2013 08:34 PM (QeXjy)

149 He won't negotiate over debt ceiling. Then all Boehner needs to do to redeem himself and the GOP is not turn up to any 'negotiations'. He should announce that there is no point whatsoever. ------ THIS. They have miscalculated and fallen into traps on the fiscal cliff. I am hoping these negotiations were like giving up a field goal, and they have done some thinking for a change on how to negotiate. Doubtful. I have to say I think the issue has to do with the voters not knowing what they want. Its still not clear. And if many of the taxes going up were payroll taxes that is a good thing...dude you cannot stop funding social security.

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 08:34 PM (dZQh7)

150 To the voices saying today's debacle was an unavoidably unfortunate move during a larger game in which the GOP is going to deliver: where can I get some of what you are smoking? Even when the GOP had Reagan (and they actually fought NOT to have him), victories came at the margin in terms of stemming the progressive tide. Never in my life has the government spent even one penny less during one year than  it did the year before, or done anything but concentrate ever more power into Washington, DC. They are going to spend more, to regulate more, to tax more, to redistribute more, to get involved in our lives more and more. They're already knee deep in: housing, finance, education, industrial policy, commerce, transportation, energy, land use, family law and, coming soon, health care. Already the expected reaction to every problem is to seek federal programs, grants, loans, etc. We are not on a vector to contain the federal government, not today, not tomorrow, not in 10 years. That's why folks dream of SMOD, or secession, or something. Some kind of different thing happening which changes that dynamic by external means. Because it is obvious that dynamic isn't going to change via political means.

Posted by: Cowboy at January 01, 2013 08:34 PM (WcgMM)

151 Dude, get over it already. We're fucked either way. The idea that ANYONE in Washington gives a SHIT about the inevitable fiscal calamity is a joke

Posted by: deadrody at January 01, 2013 08:35 PM (aT8Zk)

152 Yeah, Poet. Boys have feathered hair again. It is the late 70's 2.0 in many strange ways. I wonder if Sean Cassidy posters will come back in style. Is Justin Bieber the Sean Cassidy 2.0 ?

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 08:35 PM (CCHli)

153 I don't think anyone but political junkies cares who did what or got what out of this "deal"

Posted by: sexypig at January 02, 2013 12:31 AM (dZQh7)

 

Most of the people in my circle--family, friends, acquaintances--are apolitical. I suspect they'll be getting political with a quickness soon enough. It takes a little while for the body to register pain after impact.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 08:35 PM (vtiE6)

154 Its time to bang the phone lines of your Repub congresscritter...Boehner must not be re-elected Speaker. Not only did he screw the fiscal cliff up beyond what seemed possible, it sounds like there was a dust-up with Cantor after the vote (per twitter) about adjourning before Sandy relief bill could be considered. Now, R's will be blamed for that as well...Boehner would fuck up a one float parade.

Posted by: Tony253 at January 01, 2013 08:36 PM (3yMFT)

155 Of all the damage Obama is doing, tax rates are the easiest to undo. Nationalizing Health Care. Nationalizing the mortgage industry. Nationalizing the student loan industry. Killing off the coal industry. Gutting the defense industry. Those are all much harder to undo.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 08:37 PM (ZPrif)

156

RayJ, "Keep in mind that this is what America wants.
This is why The One was reelected."

No dumbass, The One was reelected because shithead GOP operatives made sure that we nominated an Obama clone to try to appease what they thought was a moderate electorate.  Shithead GOP operatives are the right wing of the socialist party and we should have nominated someone willing to distinguish himself from the big government loving, healthcare mandate President we did have.  Instead we nominated the same thing and then accepted a VP nominee who wanted to balance the fucking budget 2 decades down the road and no sooner.

Posted by: doug at January 01, 2013 08:37 PM (uJ8q7)

157 132 @BailofRights Hey girl, it's @PaulRyan, and I just voted to increase your taxes.

Our taxes increased when the Bush tax cuts expired 24hrs ago.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 08:37 PM (YjDyJ)

158

I do think a change in leadership is in order, however (replace Boehner).

 

With whom?  Both Cantor and Paul Ryan just nobbled themselves.  Any suggestions?

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 08:37 PM (TJQ3a)

159 I think there is also an image problem. Obama just re-elected. Most voters are low-information ones, and if they hear in Jan. 1 that Congress just refused to blah blah blah, well, they won't blame Obama. We need to take what deals we can get now, make it look like compromise is indeed possible with the GOP (yes, yes, I know) and now that taxes are "done" refuse to discuss them, unless its for major, revenue-neutral flattening and simplification. I doubt Obama will take that bait, and the media can't complain because the GOP can say "hey we took it in the ass, and now its time for the reach-around."

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 08:38 PM (dZQh7)

160 Yeah, Poet. Boys have feathered hair again. It is the late 70's 2.0 in many strange ways. I wonder if Sean Cassidy posters will come back in style. Is Justin Bieber the Sean Cassidy 2.0 ? Posted by: Cackfinger at January 02, 2013 12:35 AM (CCHli) At least Sean Cassidy had good songs written by Eric Carmen. I got no idea what the little shit beebs is singing about.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:38 PM (l86i3)

161 Also reverting to the original payroll taxes...is that really a tax increase, or is it getting rid of a tax holiday that was stupid in the first place?

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 08:38 PM (dZQh7)

162 If America is gong to destroy itself what the fuck did we do all that training and planning for?

Posted by: The Legion of Shadows at January 01, 2013 08:38 PM (SkyIE)

163 Lemme tell ya, saving $38.50 is a big friggin' deal. You should be proud.

Posted by: Joey Biden at January 01, 2013 08:38 PM (FcR7P)

164 #141 I have to laugh! Obama is already saying tonight he wants to spend more and wont budge for the idiotic Republicans-- he WON. The Republicans will cave in and do whatever he wants or they might not get re-elected or might be talked bad about. Stop with the Pollyanna thinking!

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 08:39 PM (vN3Mm)

165 Our taxes increased when the Bush tax cuts expired 24hrs ago. *** It's still funny

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:40 PM (piMMO)

166 Don't be so hard on the politicians in Washington as they are doing precisely what their constituents elected them to do. They were not elected to do what somebody else's constituents wants them to do.

Posted by: t-bird at January 01, 2013 08:40 PM (FcR7P)

167 Nope this was not let it burn, it was let everybody boil.  Always on edge, always worried, that way they won't look to DC to change, but do more of the same.

Most of the country will not lift their heads and look towards DC until it hits their paycheck, and that is what we needed now, even if it got solved in March and went retroactive, people needed to be awakened.  But now.....

ITS A COOKBOOK!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 08:40 PM (69Mdf)

168 Some more hard to undo things: Supreme Court judges. Federal judges in general Land seizure through "monument" and "park" declaration. Is there anything Repubs do that is permanent? Other than some judges, what of Bush's legacy has Obama now not completely reversed? Dems get the ratchet effect. Everything they do while in office is permanent -- except for tax rates. Almost everything we do gets undone the moment a Dem takes back the White House.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 08:41 PM (ZPrif)

169

I don't think anyone but political junkies cares who did what or got what out of this "deal"

 

It's political junkies like us who volunteer, doornock and get others to move.  You demoralize that section of your party and you've destroyed your infrastructure.

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 08:41 PM (TJQ3a)

170 It's political junkies like us who volunteer, doornock and get others to move. You demoralize that section of your party and you've destroyed your infrastructure. Posted by: Decaf at January 02, 2013 12:41 AM (TJQ3a) Yep, we are the ones that turn states red and attempt to keep the ravenous beast in check.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:43 PM (l86i3)

171 I checked the roll call and found that my GOP rep voted for this package of crap. Well John Kline (R), you are about to get ZERO support from our local caucus. You barely survived last November in blue MN so you decide to tack left. Good riddance.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 01, 2013 08:44 PM (n8LUb)

172 FlatbushJoe, Dems play the long game. We think we won when we get elected and do nothing.

Posted by: L, elle at January 01, 2013 08:45 PM (0PiQ4)

173 165 It's still funny

Criticizing the deal is one thing but using false arguments to do so is wrong, even in jest. The same goes for people supporting the deal the same way.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 08:46 PM (YjDyJ)

174 Flatbush, I agree. The Dems can do so much Fabian Socialism...small bites each time. We need to do Fabian Small Government. My suggestion: move tax day to one week before election day. That's a small move, but could have huge effects on how people vote. Another suggestion: find a couple of small programs, and then KILL them. Then when no one dies from doing so, people will realize they don't need the super state. Any other ideas? I think the state GOPs have been doing far better in this regard, see Union power waning.

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 08:47 PM (dZQh7)

175 #98 Screw this shit and play with your instrument every chance you get!!! I just got a new C&C drum ki.t Banging on that is the best therapy ever!! and i just ant to say this "fuck you ,you fucking fuck!!!! try it it feels good

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 08:48 PM (OZtuG)

176
It was not a tax cut.  It was the same rate as 1 day ago, except for the high earners which got a tax increase.  I do not care to play 1 day semantic games just so a bunch of right wing democrats that call themselves republicans can try to save face.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 08:48 PM (69Mdf)

177
"They were not elected to do what somebody else's constituents wants them to do."

You'd be surprised at how many of those "red state" constituents want the gravy train to keep going. Leftists don't back redistribution because they give a shit about people, they do it because it keeps people in line.
And it works.

Posted by: RayJ at January 01, 2013 08:49 PM (LYiL5)

178 Criticizing the deal is one thing but using false arguments to do so is wrong, even in jest. The same goes for people supporting the deal the same way. **** I think she was going more for humor than historical accuracy.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 08:49 PM (piMMO)

179 "Other than some judges, what of Bush's legacy has Obama now not completely reversed?"

As I've said before, with ample justification, the legacy of the Bush family is that they foolishly squandered the legacy left to them by Ronald Reagan. That's it. That is the thing for which they will be remembered. Father-son failures.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 08:50 PM (gqT4g)

180 130 Posted by: torquewrench at January 02, 2013 12:22 AM (gqT4g) - I like the sentiment, but that would require  Constitutional Amendment (the thingie that says Congressmen can't be arrested for most things, all of the time).

Posted by: Baldy at January 01, 2013 08:50 PM (opS9C)

181 Chavez replacement Nicolas Maduro looks like a Saddam Hussein clone.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 01, 2013 08:51 PM (ZPrif)

182 Nobody is going to feel a damn thing in the "low information" group- they saw to that tonight. No one who voted for Obama will notice the difference!

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 08:51 PM (uYSWH)

183

BREAKING NEWS.....

 

Commie IL state senator Cullerton to introduce bill in Illinois banning all modern firearms.  Just in on Breitbart.

 

You wanna do something constructive, please melt the fucking phone lines of Illinois state reps and senators and the governor.

 

Rise up.  All that is needed is a fucking phone call.  Thanks for any help.

Posted by: prescient11 at January 01, 2013 08:52 PM (xnYHG)

184 Well, we still have Mitt Romney to lead us.

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 08:53 PM (lD8ju)

185 146
"And while not getting a tax hike is good personally for a lot of people,
shielding 98% of Americans from the fiscal reality of their big
government votes is going to kill the country. "

Keep in mind that this is what America wants.
This is why The One was reelected.
Don't be so hard on the politicians in Washington as they are doing precisely what their constituents elected them to do.
This is what "Let them burns" means: that they get exactly what they deserve
xx

My new tactic when people talk about taxes is to look confused and say, "well, if you have European style Socialism, you have to have European style taxes. That's what America voted for."

Posted by: shibumi at January 01, 2013 08:54 PM (z63Tr)

186
Illinois already got slapped 9 to 0 by this supreme court for another ban, not to worried about this one, but it would be ironic to see them ban these and watch the gun violence there continue in that already highly regulated state.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 08:56 PM (69Mdf)

187 Well, we still have Mitt Romney to lead us. Posted by: TexasJew at January 02, 2013 12:53 AM (lD8ju) LoL, yeah, he's a regular fucking Ghandi. That useless fuck, we all knew it to but we let them bullshit us and bullshitted ourselves into believing.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:56 PM (l86i3)

188 This battle was lost when they punted by creating the fiscal cliff instead of shutting the government down... They were afraid of losing an election after getting a mandate to stop the spending, and thus they lost the election anyway by being squishes.

This deal was the best that could happen... Now will the House GOP bounce Boehner and put in a real wartime consigliere...  The government must be shut down the next time we hit the debt ceiling... massive cuts, or nothing gets paid but social security...

Posted by: phreshone at January 01, 2013 08:56 PM (0SXI6)

189 JUST SCREAM "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCK " TRY IT IT FEELS GOOD

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 08:58 PM (OZtuG)

190
btw, this isn't about 98% either, another pet peeve, 47% don't even pay income taxes.  So its about 51%.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 08:58 PM (69Mdf)

191 Posted by: big swingin package at January 02, 2013 12:58 AM (OZtuG) Can't, kids are sleeping.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 08:59 PM (l86i3)

192 "I just got a new C&C drum ki.t Banging on that is the best therapy ever!!""



What the hell is a C&C drum kit?

Posted by: Berserker at January 01, 2013 08:59 PM (FMbng)

193 “It’s part medicinal, part placebo, and part treating the symptoms but not the underlying pathology.” -- Rep Trey Gowdy http://nyti.ms/WcK1Jv

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 09:00 PM (piMMO)

194 Every day that Boehner is the Speaker, the Pubbies die just a little more..

Posted by: TexasJew at January 01, 2013 09:00 PM (lD8ju)

195 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 02, 2013 01:00 AM (piMMO) Trey, thats your leader, that's the one I want.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 09:01 PM (l86i3)

196 182 Nobody is going to feel a damn thing in the "low information" group- they saw to that tonight. No one who voted for Obama will notice the difference!" People living paycheck to paycheck follows those paychecks closely. I'd bet the payroll tax increase isn't something they're going to enjoy.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 09:01 PM (9S5LR)

197 So, after all the wailing and whining by Buffett and every other Democrat about the tax rate on capital gains, did Congress change them?

Posted by: Jimmy Doolittle at January 01, 2013 09:02 PM (OA8sl)

198 Any other ideas?

Posted by: sexypig at January 02, 2013 12:47 AM (dZQh7)

 

We could stop pretending Marxists and small-r republicans (as in 'supporters of the Republic and the Constitution') can share the same country peacefully. The divergence in viewpoint is too great. They want a one-party socialist superstate. We want a representative democracy. There is no middle ground upon which the two can meet.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 09:03 PM (vtiE6)

199 Trey, thats your leader, that's the one I want. **** I've been a fangirl since he was elected. He is a rock star.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 09:04 PM (piMMO)

200 All spending bills shall originate in the House.


Another rule dies quietly.


Fukkit, I'm just along for the ride.


Later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 01, 2013 09:04 PM (xa1/W)

201 Later roonz and roonettez! Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 02, 2013 01:04 AM (xa1/W) Later, be safe.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 09:07 PM (l86i3)

202 178 I think she was going more for humor than historical accuracy.

I have no problem with her mocking him (or any other politician) so long as she is accurate. The law is what it is.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:07 PM (YjDyJ)

203 @John_Scotus The Fiscal Cliff Explained: This is by far the best illustration IÂ’ve seen of the current budget crisis: http://bit.ly/Z9THeK

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 09:07 PM (piMMO)

204 Surprise! Not......Screw them all... Boehner is not going to be replaced. The whole Republican Congress stinks...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at January 01, 2013 09:08 PM (9+ccr)

205 "BREAKING NEWS..... Commie IL state senator Cullerton to introduce bill in Illinois banning all modern firearms. Just in on Breitbart."

Because the heavy duty gun ban in Shitcargo has done _such_ a great job in reducing gun crime in that city.

Are they putting homicide forecasts in the Shitcargo weather report yet? Ought to.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 09:10 PM (gqT4g)

206 200 All spending bills shall originate in the House. Another rule dies quietly.

The Senate amended a full tax cut extension bill which was passed by the House on August 1st.

Text of H.R.8 as passed by the House: http://1.usa.gov/12VNt1X

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:10 PM (YjDyJ)

207
I am still waiting for somebody to tell me how this bill, supposedly written in a day, includes rum subsidies, hollywood tax credits, and scooters.

It was quite the kabuki theater.  Popcorn is extra.  But acted well, they must have been practicing for weeks.

What a scam.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:11 PM (69Mdf)

208 188 This battle was lost when they punted by creating the fiscal cliff instead of shutting the government down...

This battle was lost when the Bush tax cuts were passed with a sunset provision rather than being enacted as permanent tax cuts.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:13 PM (YjDyJ)

209 #192 C&C Drums Custom made in the show me state.They are the shit.....google it

Posted by: big swingin package at January 01, 2013 09:13 PM (OZtuG)

210 The true indicator of the corruption of the MSM: They never call O on his "building roads and bridges" or "green jobs" lines that he pulls out of his standard speech generator.


Posted by: PJ at January 01, 2013 09:15 PM (ZWaLo)

211 Posted by: torquewrench at January 02, 2013 01:10 AM (gqT4g) I don't know about Chicago, but when I lived in Milwaukee, we had a dead pool at work. I never won, my number was always too low.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 09:15 PM (l86i3)

212 http://ferfal.blogspot.com/ It's just a matter of time.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:15 PM (bxiXv)

213 permanent tax cuts. Posted by: 80sBaby at January 02, 2013 01:13 AM (YjDyJ) You know what the difference is between a sunset bill and a permanent bill on taxes is? Nothing. The sunset ones always come up for a vote, the permanent ones can too. So, in either case, it's just saying we'll vote on it later. There's no permanent in politics.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:17 PM (bxiXv)

214 The vote was a Kobayashi Maru scenario. Either way the GOP would have lost. Yes, the death tax for >5M estates was raised and deductions for high earners was raised. But strategically that is preferable to letting higher rates hit for most Americans in order to protect a small number of high earners would have been much worse. The Democrats would have been able to turn the Middle Class solidly against the GOP with their class warfare tactics -- and it would have worked despite the Middle Class being the next target for Obama. The GOP has gained at least one thing: the Sword of Damocles over taxes is now gone. Instead of a jugular wound, the GOP now only has a deep gash. The Democrats have lost their main weapon against the GOP. Taxes are now off the table, and the GOP have much firmer ground on which to stop any further advance. They will probably screw that up, but long term greater threat from Obama when it comes to legislation is now diminished.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 09:17 PM (Vk2pI)

215 What is with all these conservative commentators suddenly embracing the idea that tax cuts cost the government money? We have never accepted that argument and with good reason.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:18 PM (YjDyJ)

216 140 Chavez said to be in coma, near death.

No doubt Barack and Michelle are busy choosing their wardrobe for the state funeral.

Have to show the proper mourning and respect to the dead, after all.

*********************

I'm sure Barack will wear his funeral thong.

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at January 01, 2013 09:18 PM (HVtRc)

217

Trying to look on the bright side, most of the Bush tax cuts are permanent now, right? So no more concessions to keep extending them.  The tax hikes at the high end don't amount to much, in terms of revenue, and hopefully aren't so extreme that they have a huge effect on unemployment and the economy. So the beast is still being starved. There's still a chance to do a little about spending, with the debt ceiling limit coming up.

 

 

As to the 2012 election, people read too much into it.  That was our Idiocracy election. Minorities voted for the "black" man/celebrity because he was just that - they don't even know what the issues are, or where he stands on them. The white and the independent vote was to throw the bum out. It would have been by a big enough margin, but those guys have plenty of Idiocracy going on within them too.

 

The economic policy situation right now is remarkably similar to how the guy in the movie has to tell everybody something that EVERYBODY used to know "to make crops grow, you need to water them". If you want more people employed, you don't do it by squeezing the job creators, while making it more expensive to employ people.

 

Posted by: Optimizer at January 01, 2013 09:18 PM (Mxt9o)

218 If you want more people employed, you don't do it by squeezing the job creators, while making it more expensive to employ people. Posted by: Optimizer at January 02, 2013 01:18 AM (Mxt9o) Yep, that's what happened today, a whole bunch of people just lost jobs. They will show up on Wednesday and "Bazinga" no work for you.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 09:20 PM (l86i3)

219 "and the media can't complain " Hasn't recognized the pattern yet.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:21 PM (CCHli)

220

Our only hope is in strong challenges to the establishment in the mid-terms.  Support the TEA party candidates in the primaries and send 50 more conservatives to invade the RNC.  Pretty thin soup but I need something to hang on to. 

Posted by: Ohio Dan at January 01, 2013 09:22 PM (JKNDp)

221 "The Democrats have lost their main weapon against the GOP. Taxes are now off the table, and the GOP have much firmer ground on which to stop any further advance. " Also hasn't recognized the pattern yet.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:23 PM (CCHli)

222 Evening 'rons and 'ronettes.  Another night working.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 09:23 PM (ga+7c)

223 Dems: If they paid us a bit of danegeld now, then they'll pay a lot more in the spring. Cowards die a thousand deaths. Repubs: Whew! That hill wasn't worth dying on. Now that the town is safe we can relax. If we could only silence those tea party types we could have peace in our time...

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:27 PM (CCHli)

224 215 What is with all these conservative commentators suddenly embracing the idea that tax cuts cost the government money? We have never accepted that argument and with good reason. Posted by: 80sBaby at January 02, 2013 01:18 AM (YjDyJ) Tax cuts (starting from where we were) are a good thing. But given our debt and spending, it's like opening an umbrella to stop an asteroid. It's almost more the rhetoric being wrong. We talk about convincing the public, but the R's go on TV and submit to the opposition vocabulary and assumptions.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:28 PM (bxiXv)

225 Primary every last motherfucker.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 09:28 PM (6H6FZ)

226

" the Sword of Damocles over taxes is now gone"

To be replaced with another debt ceiling debacle.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 09:28 PM (ga+7c)

227 "The Democrats have lost their main weapon against the GOP. Taxes are now off the table, and the GOP have much firmer ground on which to stop any further advance. " ---------- Lol. These people man. They will just demand MORE taxes in two months, and the media will dutifully carry their water, and the Republicans will get scared and cave, and you'll keep saying this over and over.

Posted by: Rich at January 01, 2013 09:29 PM (Aq251)

228 174
Another suggestion: find a couple of small programs, and then KILL them. Then when no one dies from doing so, people will realize they don't need the super state.

Any other ideas?

**************
Have you ever heard the folk tale that ends with this line:

"Who will bell the cat?"

WHO will "find" such programs, and WHO will have the power to kill them?

And if they are "small programs", why will "people" realize anything??   Why will they even hear about their termination? 

What's the connection between "small programs" and entitlement programs?


Posted by: Jim Sonweed at January 01, 2013 09:31 PM (HVtRc)

229 213 You know what the difference is between a sunset bill and a permanent bill on taxes is?

Nothing. The sunset ones always come up for a vote, the permanent ones can too.

Just because they can does not mean they will, at least not anytime in the near future. I would also argue that the sunset provision gave the politicians incentive to tinker.


Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:32 PM (YjDyJ)

230

This battle was lost when the Bush tax cuts were passed with a sunset provision rather than being enacted as permanent tax cuts.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 02, 2013 01:13 AM (YjDyJ)

 

-

 

Yes. The battle was lost over a decade ago.  Unfortunately that leadership's long gone, so there's noone to punish.  Nevermind the convenience of that meme for the current GOP leadership.  Carry on as before, helots.

 

No, the battle was lost when the current GOP leadership forfeited the most advantageous circumstances that fiscal conservatives had had for decades, precisely in order to set up the current fiscal cliff pseudo-emergency.

Posted by: MlR at January 01, 2013 09:33 PM (vR2l5)

231 THEOCRAT! INEVITABLE! SMART!

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:34 PM (CCHli)

232 Just because they can does not mean they will, at least not anytime in the near future. Posted by: 80sBaby at January 02, 2013 01:32 AM (YjDyJ) In either case. It's symbolic. As in the "victory" was symbolic, not actual. Not permanent.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:34 PM (bxiXv)

233 We are going to get slaughtered in 2014. Outside of a few pockets where Rs stood their ground and delivered on what they promised (Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana), its going to look very ugly. Thank God I have a wife, art, a job and whiskey. Otherwise I'd be pretty depressed right now. Get ready for a lot of blue blue blue maps for 2014.

Posted by: CAC at January 01, 2013 09:34 PM (uJbx5)

234 There is potentially one redeeming thing in the events of the past 2 months: It seems very likely that we will have a new and different Speaker of the House ... and preferably, one who does not get weepy ...

Posted by: Arbalest at January 01, 2013 09:34 PM (9oUZv)

235 If you want more people employed, you don't do it by squeezing the job creators, while making it more expensive to employ people.

Posted by: Optimizer at January 02, 2013 01:18 AM (Mxt9o)

 

Just spitballing here, but what if one of the ways you maintain (and even perpetuate) your power base is to enact measures, programs and policies deliberately designed to keep unemployment high because when people go on the dole, they automatically expand one of your key constituencies? Further, what if the media was nearly completely under your control and you could successfully blame this high unemployment on your political opponents?

 

Win-win scenario, especially since the only way to stop you would be if your political opponents stopped playing. As it is, they can't stop playing. They're marks who know they're marks but are sure that this time--this time--they'll beat you. Truth is, they only win when you allow them to win. You're that good. They're that pathetic.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 09:35 PM (vtiE6)

236 "Lol. These people man. They will just demand MORE taxes in two months, and the media will dutifully carry their water, and the Republicans will get scared and cave, and you'll keep saying this over and over." Sure, in two months everyone will have forgotten about these tax hikes and be willing to pay more, because after these its getting down to 250k and that means two income families in New York state...yes, those people who blissfully thought all problems were solved will now pony up...NOT. From now on, asking for more taxes will look like asking for more taxes, unless the plan is just to hit 400k and up...good luck with that. Those people will find ways to evade, thus no more funds for the spending. I am being a little optimistic, but I don't think people will be so happy to hear in 60 days that we need to RAISE TAXES AGAIN. "Didn't we just do that?"

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 09:37 PM (dZQh7)

237 I am SOOOO looking forward to John Boehner crying himself to sleep into his feculent pillow, from now and through all Eternity.

Posted by: Sideshow Bob at January 01, 2013 09:37 PM (HVtRc)

238 Oh yeah, and then did everything possible, purely by accident of course, to undermine their leverage in those eventual kabuki negotiations.

Posted by: MlR at January 01, 2013 09:37 PM (vR2l5)

239 2014 is two years away. Obama can make more errors in two years. Also after 6 years people will be fatigued. If we truly lose the House, then that means America wants to be Europe for reals, and thus - who cares. LIB.

Posted by: sexypig at January 01, 2013 09:39 PM (dZQh7)

240 The Democrats have won enough since 2010 that they really don't think they can be beaten. This doesn't affect that. They really don't have much in the way of opposition.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:41 PM (bxiXv)

241
Its hard to gauge from a website certainly, but I think the repubs just lost alot more people that aren't coming back.

As for the actual 'revenue' that comes in from this it will be interesting to see, it makes a lot more sense at the higher numbers for people to let the govt finance their taxes than actually pay them in, which can be offset with a future year loss by taking a big gamble.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:42 PM (69Mdf)

242 224 Tax cuts (starting from where we were) are a good thing.
But given our debt and spending, it's like opening an umbrella to stop an asteroid.

That does not excuse the conservative sites claiming that these tax cuts add $4T to the deficit. It is not the government's money.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:42 PM (YjDyJ)

243 "The Democrats have lost their main weapon against the GOP. Taxes are now off the table, and the GOP have much firmer ground on which to stop any further advance. " ---------- Lol. These people man. They will just demand MORE taxes in two months, and the media will dutifully carry their water, and the Republicans will get scared and cave, and you'll keep saying this over and over. Posted by: Rich at January 02, 2013 01:29 AM (Aq251) Two very different things. Taxes were automatically raising for everybody. The Democrats could threaten to let taxes raise for the Middle Class unless they got what they wanted simply by walking away... and then not only blame the GOP, but get away with it. They can no longer do that. Preventing taxes raising no longer requires Obama or the Senate. It only requires the House to say no. The Democrats can no longer threaten the GOP with those tax hikes or the blame that would go with it. The Democrats held the Middle Class hostage, and had the ability to blame the GOP for it. The Democrats just let those hostages go. Though the House GOP will probably blow it, the GOP's hand is much stronger now, and they are in a far better defensible position. It is better for the GOP to be placed in the position to explain why taxes for a small number of high earners went up, then that alternative: Explaining to the Middle Class why their taxes being raised is so much more important then the inheritance of multi-millionaires or smaller deductions for those better off then them.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 09:43 PM (Vk2pI)

244 239 will 2016 then be the for really reals election

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 09:45 PM (8HhF2)

245 Well CAC, we didn't predict 2006 from the 2004 election and we sure as hell didn't predict 2010 from 2008. President's historically lose many seats in their second term in congress. But I guess we will see. This Republican party is so goddamned stupid.

Posted by: NWConservative at January 01, 2013 09:45 PM (9jK1Z)

246 "Sure, in two months everyone will have forgotten about these tax hikes and be willing to pay more, because after these its getting down to 250k and that means two income families in New York state...yes, those people who blissfully thought all problems were solved will now pony up...NOT. " So Romney must have won in your world. Or you ran someone better. Either way congratulations. We elected the Z-RO Man again after four years of his crap. Good to know that the people in your reality haven't lost their minds yet.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:46 PM (CCHli)

247 There were no tax cuts.  Only tax rate increases.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:46 PM (69Mdf)

248 If Boehner steps down as Speaker, and lets Cantor, who voted no, to take the Speakership, then much of the the blame can be directed to just Boehner, who is acting like a lightning rod. I doubt it will play out this way, but it is a way to limit the damage.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 09:47 PM (Vk2pI)

249 SurferDoc 225 I could not agree more! Everyone that voted no would have said yes if needed to do so! They need to all be replaced! I am so angry and frustrated I am just bouncing off walls.

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 09:48 PM (cueQQ)

250 "The Democrats can no longer threaten the GOP with those tax hikes or the blame that would go with it. " Uh huh. Watch 'em do it anyway.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 09:48 PM (CCHli)

251 If we get a 2008/2012 retread or a Goddamn Bush, I will be done with the party. Heck after tonight, if Boehner is put back in on Thursday, I am done locally and nationally.

Posted by: NWConservative at January 01, 2013 09:50 PM (9jK1Z)

252 That does not excuse the conservative sites claiming that these tax cuts add $4T to the deficit. It is not the government's money. Posted by: 80sBaby at January 02, 2013 01:42 AM (YjDyJ) You know that, I know that, but apparently a lot of people on both sides of the aisle are so stupid that we're going to have an economic collapse. And enough of the population is that stupid that we can't get past the powermongers and saboteurs that think they either know better or want us so diminished they can do whatever they want afterward, wherever they want. Too bad.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 09:50 PM (bxiXv)

253
Those tax hikes just passed were only passed by the GOP, straight party line, not bi-partisan at all.  -  The MFM, next week.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:50 PM (69Mdf)

254 "The Democrats can no longer threaten the GOP with those tax hikes or the blame that would go with it. " Uh huh. Watch 'em do it anyway. Posted by: Cackfinger at January 02, 2013 01:48 AM (CCHli) How? Before they could do it by simply doing nothing. Now they can't do that. The bill is bad, but voting no would have been a long term strategic disaster. The GOP would have lost the Middle Class and given the Democrats the ability to gain total power in '14.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 09:51 PM (Vk2pI)

255 I wonder if the RNC and other Republicans will notice the lack of donations or if folks will continue to pony up?

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 09:53 PM (oEOlM)

256 247 There were no tax cuts. Only tax rate increases.

Our taxes reset to the higher rates after the Bush tax cuts expired.

SEC. 102. TEMPORARY EXTENSION OF 2003 TAX RELIEF.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Section 303 of the Jobs and Growth Tax
Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 is amended by striking ‘‘December
31, 2010’’ and inserting ‘‘December 31, 2012’’.

http://1.usa.gov/hzEytF 

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 09:53 PM (YjDyJ)

257

"President's historically lose many seats in their second term in congress."

 

And President's aren't typically reelected with 8% unemployent.

 

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 09:54 PM (ga+7c)

258
If the debt ceiling isn't raised and we don't get a new VAT(ax), children will starve, SS payments will dry up, hospitals will close.....

- the dems and the mfm *birm* next month -

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:54 PM (69Mdf)

259 217 Trying to look on the bright side, most of the Bush tax cuts are permanent now, right?

------------

No, the Bush tax cuts are over. We're now in the brave new world of Obama tax cuts.

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at January 01, 2013 09:55 PM (1c58W)

260

And we need to nominate more squishes along the line of McCain and Romney, right Political Hat?  Who's your next best favority, Lindsey Graham?  How about that fricken liberal who wants to balance the budget in 25 years, what's his name, yeah, Paul Ryan?

 

 

Posted by: doug at January 01, 2013 09:56 PM (uJ8q7)

261 So the spin is that this turd was actually something other than a turd.  Good to know.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 09:56 PM (ga+7c)

262
Sorry 80's baby, I am not playing the technical semantics, 1 day later is not a tax increase and then a tax cut just to save republicans face.  If it went to March and the same deal happened it still would not have been a tax cut.

2013 income taxes are the same as 2012 for most brackets, except the ones that went up.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 09:58 PM (69Mdf)

263 Hat: you make a good case for your conclusions. Unfortunately, you use LOGIC. You lose. We all lose.

Posted by: Arbalest at January 01, 2013 09:58 PM (9oUZv)

264 Look at Greece and Spain-- they have been predicting economic collapse for several years now. This is not really likely to happen anytime soon, so the free stuff crowd can go on believing...........and then elect Hillary or Joe Biden in 2016!

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 09:59 PM (zfJo7)

265

Note the numbers in the house vote at the beginning of the post. 257-167, 172 Dems and 85 Republicans voting yes, 151 Republicians and 16 Democrats voting no. The thing passes with a majority of Dems, not republicans.Nearly twice as many Republicans voted against it as for it. Some held to principal. Some voted no for shelter, since it was going to pass anyway.  You can see Pelosi reaching out from the grave her fist clenched in victory.  Wanting her precious the Speakers Gavel.  Conservatives have to bounce more RINOs and the only vehicle for that I see is the TEA party.

I no longer use the term SCOAMF because the commie jug-earred f**k and his minions are kicking our ass.  They intend to destroy America and remake it the way they want it.  They're doing a damned good job of it.

Posted by: Ohio Dan at January 01, 2013 09:59 PM (JKNDp)

266 260 this reduction of everything to a squishes vs. true-blue cons Manichean struggle is moronic we lost the election for certain reasons that have nothing to do with whether Romney was "too moderate" or "too extreme"

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 10:00 PM (8HhF2)

267
We're now in the brave new world of Obama tax cuts increases.

FIFY.

Seriously we have got to get this verbiage correct.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:00 PM (69Mdf)

268 "AnnaS, the fight was lost in November." Really? Why? The Republicans have a majority in the House. All they had to do was vote this down.

Posted by: Ace's liver at January 01, 2013 10:02 PM (1+XRG)

269 also saying someone like Ryan who's been willing to put out several different proposals that'd completely overhaul the entitlement system is a "liberal" just because he isn't kamikaze pushing for massive spending cuts now now now, gimme a break

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 10:03 PM (8HhF2)

270 And we need to nominate more squishes along the line of McCain and Romney, right Political Hat? Who's your next best favority, Lindsey Graham? How about that fricken liberal who wants to balance the budget in 25 years, what's his name, yeah, Paul Ryan? Posted by: doug at January 02, 2013 01:56 AM (uJ8q7) We need hard core conservatives. But we need conservatives that understand that decreasing rates for most people is not an increase in others. The higher rates for the top earners was already the law in effect. Failing to lower them again was not a tax increase. If we had gone with Plan B we could have avoided that AND avoided blame for being responsible for Middle Class tax increases. We could have passed that and then just walked away. You would have gotten everything you wanted in a NO vote on the "compromise," AND avoided defenestrating the Middle Class WITHOUT actually raising any taxes. Instead, we got put into a no-win situation. The GOP would not have been able to claim they were AGAINST tax hikes to the Middle Class when their NO vote would have resulted in the Middle Class having HIGHER taxes. It was a tactical loss, but could be a strategic victory.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:04 PM (Vk2pI)

271 Unless someone here can do something about it, there's not much point in fighting.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 01, 2013 10:04 PM (bxiXv)

272 The problem is the Republicans in office don't want to do anything that will risk their seats. Until the voters are willing to punish them for this sort of thing it's going to keep happening.

Posted by: Ace's liver at January 01, 2013 10:04 PM (1+XRG)

273 " How? Before they could do it by simply doing nothing. Now they can't do that. " How? They'll merely kick the GOP pussies in the press until the GOP gives in to 75% of whatever the original outrageous proposal was and calls it a bipartisan proposal. Just like always. And the GOP pussies will fold, call it a compromise, and then act all surprised the next time it happens.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 10:05 PM (CCHli)

274 "I wonder if the RNC and other Republicans will notice the lack of donations or if folks will continue to pony up?"

Not to worry.  The Ruling Class takes care of its own.  The Dems will need at least a token "opposition" to mask the iron fist long enough to break the rest of us.

Posted by: mrp at January 01, 2013 10:05 PM (HjPtV)

275
Of course it was a tax increase, Obama campaigned on increasing those very taxes.  Are you really saying if this passed on Dec 31 that it would be an increase, but on Jan 1 its a tax cut?  You want the dems and Obama to get away with that?

No wonder the repubs lose every public political argument.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:07 PM (69Mdf)

276

As a practical matter, Team Republican just took 10ks to 100ks out of the pockets of their donor base. So, they be less able to fund the party next cycle, even if they were still so inclined.

So, smart move.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:08 PM (kdS6q)

277 262 Sorry 80's baby, I am not playing the technical semantics, 1 day later is not a tax increase and then a tax cut just to save republicans face. If it went to March and the same deal happened it still would not have been a tax cut.

I'm not going to tell you that this deal is wonderful (it's not) or that I like everything in it (I don't). But I'm not going to ignore the law for the sake of convenience. Taxes increased on all of us as soon as the tax cuts expired.

 

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 10:10 PM (YjDyJ)

278 Sexypig, my thoughts exactly.....

Posted by: prescient11 at January 01, 2013 10:10 PM (xnYHG)

279
It was a tactical loss, but could be a strategic victory.
Posted by: The Political Hat




Please feel free to put some numbers around this "strategic victory". Number of predicted net House and Senate seats gained in 2014.

Go.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:11 PM (kdS6q)

280 How? They'll merely kick the GOP pussies in the press until the GOP gives in to 75% of whatever the original outrageous proposal was and calls it a bipartisan proposal. Just like always. And the GOP pussies will fold, call it a compromise, and then act all surprised the next time it happens. Posted by: Cackfinger at January 02, 2013 02:05 AM (CCHli) There is a huge difference between trying to get the GOP to raise taxes from scratch, and threatening to automatically have taxes raised coupled with that blame being placed on the heads of the GOP. They are totally different things. It is far easier to say NO to tax increases then to somehow get Obama to agree to tax cuts. I've made myself clear: The bill was BAD. I am only arguing that we were screwed regardless, and that the long term damage of reducing some deductions for high earners and a 5% increase in the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires is FAR less then voting to let tax rates on the vast majority of Americans go up and get all the blame for it.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:13 PM (Vk2pI)

281 This is the end of the Republican party.  The Media will demonize the Reps and the Dems will take over the House in 2014.  The Media know how to play the game now, 2010 won't happen again.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 01, 2013 10:14 PM (xjpRj)

282
Don't ignore the law, but check it with reality.

2013 taxes - 2012 taxes =

If that is a positive number in any tax bracket it is an increase, but if you want to call them the Obama tax cuts that is of course your prerogative.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:15 PM (69Mdf)

283 Political Hat says things better than me

Posted by: JDP at January 01, 2013 10:16 PM (8HhF2)

284

264 Look at Greece and Spain-- they have been predicting economic collapse for several years now. This is not really likely to happen anytime soon, so the free stuff crowd can go on believing

They both have 20+% unemployment and Greece got hit with a selective default.  They might have something that looks functioning but it is pretty much collapsed on the inside. 

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:16 PM (ga+7c)

285 Please feel free to put some numbers around this "strategic victory". Number of predicted net House and Senate seats gained in 2014. Go. Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 02, 2013 02:11 AM (kdS6q) Probably 100 House seats saved that the GOP would have lost due to the Middle Class turning on a party that voted for a higher tax rate on them in order to protect some deductions and multi-million inheritance on the few. It's hard to convince people you are anti-tax hikes when you effectively voted for them to have higher taxes.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:18 PM (Vk2pI)

286
heh. Jobs saved.  Seats saved.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:19 PM (69Mdf)

287

It was a tactical loss, but could be a strategic victory.
Posted by: The Political Hat

Kind of like the Tet Offensive for the Viet Cong, is that it? Sorry, but the MSM (wearing the face and using the voice of Walter Cronkite) came down from the airwaves and miraculously saved their godless commie asses from certain defeat.  No similar deus ex machina for us, I'm afraid.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 10:21 PM (vtiE6)

288 The WaPo just admitted that there was no need for the House Rs to try to pass a Sandy bill.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 10:21 PM (YjDyJ)

289

Guy-

The 2% reduction in the social security tax was left out (an Obama tax cut!), so taxes will go up on most everyone. 

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:22 PM (ga+7c)

290 Sexypig, my thoughts exactly.....

Posted by: prescient11 at January 02, 2013 02:10 AM (xnYHG)

 

Don't see that phrase every day.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 10:22 PM (vtiE6)

291

Jobs saved. Seats saved.
 lol.  Lets make it a campaign slogan.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:24 PM (ga+7c)

292 284 They both have 20+% unemployment and Greece got hit with a selective default. They might have something that looks functioning but it is pretty much collapsed on the inside.

They refuse to believe what they have seen with their own eyes.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 10:26 PM (YjDyJ)

293
157 pages in this bill. One. Five. Seven.
Mongo is rapin us twice.  He like rape.

and

I know Rich, yet some people still want to call them cuts.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:26 PM (69Mdf)

294 heh. Jobs saved. Seats saved. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 02, 2013 02:19 AM (69Mdf) Tell me how you convince the Middle Class that the GOP votest against tax hikes when their voted insured that that same Middle Class pays more? The Democrats would just say that the GOP sacrifice the middle class to protect a small number of the well-off. They would play their class warfare card and permanently grab the Middle Class. The ability of the Democrats to do that has disappeared. The tax hikes are horrible and the GOP will suffer for it. But the alternative would have been worse.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:26 PM (Vk2pI)

295 70
I don't get all the angst. If you didn't know this basic deal was coming all along, where have you been hiding?


And if you are still registered Republican, I don't get that either. Can't you at least do a tiny protest and send a message by registering as an independent. You can still vote for any Republican you favor.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 01, 2013 11:54 PM (1Y+hH)


Too pissed off to read the entire thread.  I knew this day was coming.  I have held off changing, because if a bunch of us quit the Republicans immediately after they surrender, it makes a statement; as little as they care.  Part of that bunch paying a visit to the county clerk tomorrow to change registration will be my family.  We Conservatives need our own party, because Republicans are as much the enemy as the open Leftists.



Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at January 01, 2013 10:28 PM (aXM7M)

296 Political Hat is correct the Repubtards probably prevented another 2006 by doing this. They have a very weak hand probably even weaker than 2008. At least in 08 there was the idea this train wreck had an expiration date. Now what do we have? One half of one third of government. This position requires guerrilla warfare and sound tactics. I hope Cantor unseats him and Mike Lee undercuts McConnell because if they cave on the debt ceiling and spending cuts Repubtards are in for their own hellish version of 2010. Veto proof in both houses for dems meaning kiss your guns and gold goodbye.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 01, 2013 10:28 PM (gkfSV)

297 Well TPH, if we actually had a "Republican Party", they would pass a bill that
KEEPS the top 2 brackets the same as 2012 and then CUTS taxes for the middle class to increase economic activity to try to jump start the economy.

See.  MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS, NO TAX RAISES, THE PARTY OF SMALL GOVT.

Thats how I would convince the middle class that I was looking out for them.

Let Obama explain for once why he would rather punish success than reward those who are working to become a success.

That couldn't pass the senate you say, well I say this travesty never should have passed the house.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:33 PM (69Mdf)

298

They both have large and growing grey market economies and there banks can only get funding from the ECB.  Argentina has been in collapse since 2001(?) and they've only now started to loot the grocery stores.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:33 PM (ga+7c)

299 Veto proof in both houses for dems meaning kiss your guns and gold goodbye.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 02, 2013 02:28 AM (gkfSV)

 

Guns aren't going anywhere unless they use one of the two legal, constitutional mechanisms to repeal or revise the 2nd Amendment. Cold, dead hands and all that.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 10:33 PM (vtiE6)

300
if they cave on the debt ceiling and spending cuts

That's a surety.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:38 PM (69Mdf)

301 I understand that there was no way to have a practical victory on this. But the GOP's biggest problem is that it doesn't know how to extract strategic victories from shit-sandwich policy defeats. I'm certain that a sufficient number of LIB people here and elsewhere would have been far less pissed off at this surrender if only Boehner and everyone else had taken every opportunity to shove down the media and the public's throat how all of this is the fault of Obama and the Dems going back on promises and lying about the fiscal state of the country. The presidency may still be the "bully pulpit", but in this day and age of 24/7 instant media coverage, it doesn't have to be the ONLY one. Remember how much Pelosi and Reid were all over the tv in the final days of Bush? Where was Boehner doing the same? Oh yeah, behind closed doors in the white house trying to be an "adult" negotiating with a guy whose only intent was to string him along while playing the media. I'm with Sowell on that; the GOP deserved to lose with that strategy.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 01, 2013 10:39 PM (Y5I9o)

302 Why didn't Repubs vote present and let it pass? When the economy now tanks, Republicans went along with it.

Posted by: Liontooth at January 01, 2013 10:39 PM (xk0Xg)

303

carp ** there banks** their banks...

But isn't it necessary at some point for "the middle class" (which already votes dem) to feel the pain for the government they want.  Until people feel it in their pocketbook they'll keep voting for the free shit army because "someone else is paying of it".

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:39 PM (ga+7c)

304 if they cave on the debt ceiling and spending cuts

No if about it.  Still waiting for the 1997 Medicare cuts to take effect (they are stopped with the "doc fix" every year since).  The Reps are going to get beat in the head with a debt downgrade when the debt limit debacle is negotiated.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 10:42 PM (ga+7c)

305 I think so Rich thats why I was on the let it burn team, let everybody see what it costs to pay for what they want.  It may, just may have turned 5 or 10% of the public around.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:45 PM (69Mdf)

306 Well TPH, if we actually had a "Republican Party", they would pass a bill that KEEPS the top 2 brackets the same as 2012 and then CUTS taxes for the middle class to increase economic activity to try to jump start the economy. See. MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS, NO TAX RAISES, THE PARTY OF SMALL GOVT. Thats how I would convince the middle class that I was looking out for them. Let Obama explain for once why he would rather punish success than reward those who are working to become a success. That couldn't pass the senate you say, well I say this travesty never should have passed the house. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 02, 2013 02:33 AM (69Mdf) Splended plan. I would have been wonderful it that Bill became law. But Obama and Reid would not have allowed the tax rates to have been lowered from what they were (i.e. the rates for 2013 and beyond that were already in the books). The Democrats would have voted against it and simply claimed that the GOP was holding the Middle Class hostage in order to protect the rich. Plan B would have been a pure cut of the Middle Class taxes and inoculated the GOP against ANY claim that they would defenestrate the Middle Class to protect the "evil 1%." It would have failed, but the House passing a Plan B that the Senate kills through inaction, and voting NO on the compromise, would have resulted in the same outcome on taxes, but the former would be a strategic win for the GOP, while the later would have been a strategic loss.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:45 PM (Vk2pI)

307 200 dollar excise taxes, value added taxes, liability insurance, military style action bans, sin taxes on ammo, food storage taxes, limits on metal purchases, "safety program" requirements. there are plenty of constitutional "taxable" ways to limit guns in this country. also plenty of ways for people to out themselves as potential owners and possible search targets. the only thing still differentiating repubtards from dems is guns. the only reason left to not go full libertarian party.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 01, 2013 10:48 PM (gkfSV)

308 "It was a tactical loss, but could be a strategic victory"

Exactly. The "recovery" is the weakest ever and Obamacare hits next year. I believe the historical average for recessions is once every 5-6 years. There's about a 90% chance there will be a recession in Obama's second term. Even if policies were good right now it would probably happen. With these tax increases (which don't even touch the vast majority of the electorate anyway) Obama could be branded forever for having caused another recession by raising taxes.

Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party for this message to ever get across.

Posted by: andrew at January 01, 2013 10:49 PM (5PdYy)

309 It doesn't matter what the dems would have claimed.  You keep saying something to that effect.  They will claim anything they want no matter what happens and the MFM will let them.  I can tell you right now, this bill will become known as the Repub Tax Increase that killed the Economy Bill.  That is with Odickhead signing and it being the dem senate plan.

There are no strategic wins anymore.

The point is to have some backbone and stand up for your beliefs, unless of course it just all politics and someone wants to keep their phony baloney jobs.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:52 PM (69Mdf)

310 Why didn't the house even attempt to flatten rates? Move the highest up to 39 then bracket everyone else between 10 and 25 but make sure to bring the bottom one back up so even the working free shitters have to pay. That's why I'm in favor of the payroll tax expiring. Everyone pays that! Anyone on the right that parrots the 77% tax increase needs to shut their yaps. That's skin in the game for everyone especially the ssdi crowd.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 01, 2013 10:53 PM (gkfSV)

311 308:Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party for this message to ever get across. Posted by: andrew at January 02, 2013 02:49 AM (5PdYy) But when was this case EVER made by Boehner and other elected officials. It does no good to make this argument unless it's concurrently being made 24/7 in public by our visible and audible party leaders. All you hear from Boehner is...??? Whereas all you hear from Obama is a constant stream of easy-to-remember branding. Who's going to be more persuasive to more of the public?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 01, 2013 10:55 PM (Y5I9o)

312 With the House passing the "compromise," now taxes will be higher for some, but lower for others. If the House had defeated the measure, then now taxes would be higher for some, but lower for others. It is a no win situation. Either which way, taxes for some would be higher, but taxes for others would be lower. The only difference is which outcome would be strategically preferable. I simply maintain that lower tax rates for the Middle Class, with a 5% increase in inheritance taxes for multi-millionaires and smaller deductions for high earners, is less worse than the higher tax rates for the vast majority of Americans and higher deductions for the well off. I have seen NO argument to the contrary that holds ANY credence.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 10:56 PM (Vk2pI)

313 The tax rates aren't where the problems are with this deal. It's in the damn carve outs and credits that are now permanent. Freaking rum? Indian coal mines? Hollywood tax credits? Why not gut that shit to raise revenue?

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 01, 2013 10:56 PM (gkfSV)

314 The lower earners get their payroll taxes offset by the EITC.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:57 PM (69Mdf)

315 309 It doesn't matter what the dems would have claimed. You keep saying something to that effect. They will claim anything they want no matter what happens and the MFM will let them. I can tell you right now, this bill will become known as the Repub Tax Increase that killed the Economy Bill. That is with Odickhead signing and it being the dem senate plan. There are no strategic wins anymore. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 02, 2013 02:52 AM (69Mdf) You're right on the first part, but the only reason it looks like "there are no strategic wins anymore" is that the GOP has never tried for them. I mean, I don't hold out a ton of hope for that to immediately start happening now...

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 01, 2013 10:58 PM (Y5I9o)

316 "I have seen NO argument to the contrary that holds ANY credence." Yeah. That's really impressive coming from a guy trying to pass off what just happened as a deep and wise strategy instead of intimidation, surrender, and defeat.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 11:01 PM (CCHli)

317
Here was my thinking TPH, yes what you say is of course preferable in that situation, however, my hope, maybe naively was that if this 'cliff' went on for a few months the public would come to understand the consequences of taxes and spending which our current deficit spending innoculates them from seeing.

That was my hope.  I really don't care about the parties anymore, as I believe they are 2 sides of the same coin.  I would like a true conservative party to emerge someday, if its the repubs, great, but it can't happen until reality kicks alot of people in the face.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:03 PM (69Mdf)

318
Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party....
Posted by: andrew




Your party now.  Be sure and write and tell us how the next election turns out.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 11:04 PM (kdS6q)

319 Ha.  Good on, LDC.

Anyway I'm out for the night, here's hoping day 2 of 2013 is much better.

Night all.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:08 PM (69Mdf)

320 "Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party for this message to ever get across. " Yeah. This kind of "stupid party caves again in exchange for strategic maneuvering room, an IOU for some defeatist bipartisan brownie points that the press will supposedly honor someday, and a handful of magic beans " shit isn't dividing or undermining the party. No way. It's the people who expect the party to stick to their own platform and professed goals. They're the problem. They won't continue to vote, support, and praise after two years of retreat and screw-job. That's some real funny stuff brother. You guys are awesome. Keep up the great work giving Obama 75% of whatever he wants, apologizing for people who don't want you to do that, and then demanding that they support you in your treachery and ineffectiveness !

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 11:09 PM (CCHli)

321 Here was my thinking TPH, yes what you say is of course preferable in that situation, however, my hope, maybe naively was that if this 'cliff' went on for a few months the public would come to understand the consequences of taxes and spending which our current deficit spending innoculates them from seeing. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 02, 2013 03:03 AM (69Mdf) The problem is that the GOP demonstrated that it can not win that argument. The people would not come to understand that because the Dems would just blame the "evil 1%." The Dems proved in November that this works for them. They would have loved for the Middle Class to suddenly have to pay for the benefits they want, because the Democrats would successfully shift the blame on "the rich" not paying their "fair share" and destroy the well off. The Dems would then go after the Middle Class, but by then that Middle Class would be decimated and largely replaced by a growing dependency class. The longer that argument goes on, the worse the outcome for the GOP. Minimizing that argument even starting is the best move they can make, IMHO.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:12 PM (Vk2pI)

322 Yeah. That's really impressive coming from a guy trying to pass off what just happened as a deep and wise strategy instead of intimidation, surrender, and defeat. Posted by: Cackfinger at January 02, 2013 03:01 AM (CCHli) Dunkirk was a retreat. Picket's charge was a bold attack. Which was the better choice.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:14 PM (Vk2pI)

323 The dems "argument" is no less founded in reality now than it was in September. It's a 'stir 'em up' sales pitch not an accurate and rational suasion. It will be no less effective now than it was before the FC-cave. Nobody is keeping score here in any objective sense.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 11:15 PM (CCHli)

324 "Which was the better choice." This wasn't Dunkirk or even the Phillipines This was more like the Munich agreement.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 11:18 PM (CCHli)

325 Don't worry folks. Neville's got it all under control.

Posted by: Cackfinger at January 01, 2013 11:21 PM (CCHli)

326 What has been forgotten in all this is that some of the GOP members complaining about the lack of cuts are the very same people who refused to support the spending amendment.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 11:22 PM (YjDyJ)

327

Do not interfere with an army that is returning home.

When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.

Do not press a desperate foe too hard.

Such is the art of warfare.

Posted by: RichatUF at January 01, 2013 11:25 PM (ga+7c)

328 Don't worry folks. Neville's got it all under control. Posted by: Cackfinger at January 02, 2013 03:21 AM (CCHli) How did refusing to give up Stalingrad go for the German army? The top rates were not going to go down from where they were scheduled to be. Sacrificing even more to "fight the good fight" in a loosing battle insanity.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:26 PM (Vk2pI)

329 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw5LaEzEcJw

Posted by: Kenny Rogers at January 01, 2013 11:28 PM (Vk2pI)

330 Excalibur - O Fortuna
http://youtu.be/t6Hp2WANepc

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:33 PM (TCGmg)

331 I just want to point out the obvious.

Other than the fact that the republicans are just a bunch of spineless pussies who are more worried about thier jobs on the hill than saving this country...

and its this.

How Ironic that a Guy named Boner is Gobbling Obamacock!


Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 01, 2013 11:34 PM (+OTLF)

332

Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party for this message to ever get across. "

 

"Your party now. Be sure and write and tell us how the next election turns out."

 

Yeah, letting ourselves be consumed with rancor and division when facing down fucking Leviathan strikes me as a singularly bad idea.

 

If there's blame to be had (and there's enough to go around), I blame lack of leadership. Oh, we have leaders. They just won't fight. As it happens, that was the same problem with the Whigs back in the day. When confronted by the expansion of slavery to the territories, Whig leadership quailed at confronting the Democrats, fearing where it might lead. The Republican Party coalesced and confronted the Democrats, knowing where it might lead but going forward anyway. In his Cooper Union speech, Lincoln said, "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, do that duty as we understand it." 

 

So there's historical precedent. It would probably be a good idea right now to write and call and remind GOP members of the House and in the Senate of that history. Finally, don't any of you get it? Underlying all of this wheeling and dealing and reaching across the aisle bullshit is the fear very privately held by the Republicans that passions are too high and that Something Bad might happen. They're afraid, and that particular fear has been ingrained in our national DNA since 1865. The Democrats are afraid too, of course. Why do you suppose there's all of this panicky chatter about gun control and confiscation? The deaths of those children and other victims of random gun violence by maniacs are just an excuse for them. That isn't the real reason why they want our firearms. You know the real reason.

Posted by: troyriser at January 01, 2013 11:36 PM (vtiE6)

333 seriously...i miss the good old days, when you could burn these mother fuckers at the stake!

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 01, 2013 11:36 PM (+OTLF)

334 they want gun control to make sure they dont get shot by the people when they finish fucking up the country.

Gun Control is self preservation for shitty politicians intent on destroying this country.

Hopefully every last one of them gets colon cancer and dies in a pool of there own bloody feces as they choke on their own chemo induces vomit - chemo ofcourse paid for by their golden health insurance package that they get that is not subject to the fuckshit obamacare they foisted on the rest of us.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 01, 2013 11:39 PM (+OTLF)

335 They voted to extend the Hollywood tax cuts. Tax breaks for an industry that devotes a not inconsiderable chunk of its energy to demonizing the GOP. That's just sad.

Posted by: Chicagorefugee at January 01, 2013 11:52 PM (MbXOQ)

336 An industry (film) that vociferously demands higher taxes for "the rich" and the GOP voted to give them a tax break. Absolute insanity.

Posted by: Chicagorefugee at January 01, 2013 11:55 PM (MbXOQ)

337 The tax rates aren't where the problems are with this deal. It's in the damn carve outs and credits that are now permanent. Freaking rum? Indian coal mines? Hollywood tax credits? Why not gut that shit to raise revenue? Posted by: Exasperated Expat at January 02, 2013 02:56 AM (gkfSV) THIS! Every last one is a give away to a Democratic constituency. Every. Last. One.

Posted by: Chicagorefugee at January 02, 2013 12:00 AM (MbXOQ)

338 THIS! Every last one is a give away to a Democratic constituency. Every. Last. One.

Posted by: Chicagorefugee at January 02, 2013 04:00 AM (MbXOQ)

 

Tree, forest, no one hears it. You know the drill.

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 12:30 AM (vtiE6)

339 335 They voted to extend the Hollywood tax cuts. Tax breaks for an industry that devotes a not inconsiderable chunk of its energy to demonizing the GOP. That's just sad. - If the Republican Party ever comes to its senses it will have to prove it has had a change of heart by ending the Hollywood tax cuts.

Posted by: Chromoly Man (formerly The Lightworker) at January 02, 2013 12:36 AM (FXyTr)

340 I just love how TFG is now prepositioning himself on the debt ceiling. 'He won't negotiate for paying for stuff that Congress has already agreed to do'.
 
They play for yards and we play for inches. Expect that particular argument to be made ad nauseam by the whole Progressive crew (yes that includes the MFM) right up until the vote.
 
Oh, and expect the ceiling to be thrown in with extending the budget 'continuing resolution', due to expire at the end of March. This is the fantasy budget that Dingy Reid refers to as 'we did pass a budget'.
 
Finally, I want to note the not discussed much anywhere yet but fun fact -- the farm bill got a 9 month extension in this pact. This means, mainly, that there will be no cuts to food stamps or price supports or any fucking thing. At least milk will still be cheap as The Dairy Cliff was averted as part of this too.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 02, 2013 12:36 AM (ccXZP)

341 Anyone taking bets on when the crash comes? After all, the thing about an unsustainable model is that it's, well, unsustainable. Two years? Three? Five? Or are Krugman and the New Keynesians right? Can we keep spending in perpetuity, forever kicking the can down the road to our grandchildren then they to their grandchildren and so on until the sun burns out and the debt never comes due?

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 12:57 AM (vtiE6)

342 You do realize all your bashing of Ryan and every other GOP member is exactly what the President wants..he not only wants to fracture the GOP, but America and now y'all are playing right into that. Yes, go third party and get 10% of the vote and hand the DNC the keys to everything from now on...bravo...

Posted by: StevefromMKE at January 02, 2013 01:11 AM (TnjNu)

343 341 troy,
 
I dunno, the Japs have managed to kick the can for well over a decade now; their debt to GDP ratio is somewhere around 250%. making our little old 105% ratio look like a rubber ducky.
 
One trick they use is vastly lower 10 year interest rates.....they pay around 0.7% interest on their bonds whereas we pay close to 1.7%. But now they have new leadership, which is recycled old leadership very similar in nature to the Gov. Brown in CA situation.
 
What's really going to hurt the Japs is the loss of almost all trade with China. That situation could even heat up into a shooting war.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 02, 2013 01:15 AM (ccXZP)

344 You do realize all your bashing of Ryan and every other GOP member is exactly what the President wants..he not only wants to fracture the GOP, but America and now y'all are playing right into that. Yes, go third party and get 10% of the vote and hand the DNC the keys to everything from now on...bravo...

Posted by: StevefromMKE at January 02, 2013 05:11 AM (TnjNu)

 

There was once a major American political party called the Whig Party. It was supplanted by the Republican Party when the Whigs refused to deal forcefully with the Democratic Party over the expansion of the institution of slavery into the territories. Now, the GOP refuses to confront the Democrats over their intended transformation of the United States into an authoritarian socialist welfare state. Republican leaders even refuse to use the word 'socialist' or 'socialism' when describing patently obvious socialistic policies promoted by the Obama Administration. So you tell me: if an opposition party refuses to oppose, then what good is it? What's it for?

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 01:25 AM (vtiE6)

345 << You do realize all your bashing of Ryan and every other GOP member is exactly what the President wants.>>

SO what? Does that translate to more presidential power?

Fuck the GOP. Let it burn.

Let it all burn.

Held my nose for a shitty presidential candidate that lost anyway. Boehner, Ryan, et al.

To hell with the National GOP.

At least the evil of the Left is right out there front and center.

Remember when they used to be the spineless liars, and the GOP was the party of responsible honesty?

Posted by: Sgt. York at January 02, 2013 01:32 AM (00GSz)

346

342You do realize all your bashing of Ryan and every other GOP member is exactly what the President wants..he not only wants to fracture the GOP, but America and now y'all are playing right into that. Yes, go third party and get 10% of the vote and hand the DNC the keys to everything from now on...bravo...

 

Looks like exactly what we have already done, we handed them the House even though we have the majority. The sissies are afraid to stand up to Obama. What happened to the GOP House of 2011? The same people have gone totally tax and spend washingtonian.

The susbidies to hollywood and windfarms just shows how hard the tea party has crashed.

We are all socialists now.

Special thanks to the ideologically pure who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Romney/Ryan. Well done assholes!

Posted by: cn at January 02, 2013 01:32 AM (4oEbR)

347 OT: I slept with  a girl 30 years ago. She was late. I told her I would marry her. I was a drunk and  a pothead. I am also gay (which she probably knew, growing up near NYC, contrary to most girls that threw themselves at me). Later, she had the baby, and said the child was not mine. I didn't think much of the situation for nearly 30 years, and lost touch with the woman. Lately, for some reason, I have been thinking she might have lied to me then (wishful thinking as I have no kids and now can't easily father any due to health issues and feel sad about that). Question: given I would be calling her a liar, should I contact her, or should I let sleeping dogs lie?

Posted by: Baldy at January 02, 2013 01:35 AM (opS9C)

348 Question: given I would be calling her a liar, should I contact her, or should I let sleeping dogs lie?

Posted by: Baldy at January 02, 2013 05:35 AM (opS9C)

 

Talk about it with a friend, a family member, someone whose advice you trust. No one on the Internet whose face and name you don't know is your friend.

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 01:45 AM (vtiE6)

349 342 Posted by: StevefromMKE at January 02, 2013 05:11 AM (TnjNu) I hate to break it to you but the GOP is fractured. The last 2 presidential elections prove it, along with the aftermath of the 2010 midterms. The party is controlled by people who are essentially slow-motion progressives. They benefit from big government and also crave power and control. The only difference between them and the SCOAMF crew is that they are not anti-American, but have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Conservatives stayed home on election day this year, in '08, '96, and '92. And "W" won only by a red pubic hair in '00 and slightly more 4 years later. The Tea Party candidates handed them a massive, historic victory in 2010 but the establishment subverted them, with predictable results as witnessed with this shameful display. They hate conservatives and conservatism. Can we take the party back? Who knows. I don't know about a third party but I am registered Independent and will contribute only directly to candidates. The GOP is dead to me.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 02, 2013 01:47 AM (XkWWK)

350

Loathe is a good word; describes my feelings for this feckless bunch of republicans. At least I'm glad to see Ryan is out of the 2016 running.  He was just a party tool. 

Posted by: Panther at January 02, 2013 01:48 AM (wrcD1)

351 350 Loathe is a good word; describes my feelings for this feckless bunch of republicans.At least I'm glad to see Ryan is out of the2016 running. He was just a party tool. Posted by: Panther at January 02, 2013 05:48 AM (wrcD1) You are right. I am bitterly disappointed in Paul Ryan. I understand that politics is politics, but this is core principles that not only define the so-called "brand" of the GOP but are fundamental economic laws that are irrefutable. You do not raise taxes and borrow during recessions/depressions. Now, SCOAMF, with the direct aid and comfort of the RINO's, has succeeded in getting us to admit that conservatism was the problem for the past 30 years and that a socialist welfare state is the answer. Well-played, Boehner and company. Go to hell.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 02, 2013 01:53 AM (XkWWK)

352 Among households with incomes between $500,000 and $1 million, taxes would go up by an average of $14,812. And I voted for these guys. Thanks, GOP. After being a max donor during both Bush runs, I refrained this time around because I could see they weren't going to hold the line on taxes and spending. I see now that analysis was justified. They can expect the same from me in the next election cycle. What's sad about this is that the goal of the left's policies is more than simply taking money from folks like my wife and I and giving it to others they think are more deserving. They actually want to hurt us. To make us feel pain so that we know how the other half lives even though we both already know that because we grew up that way. But in reality we aren't are going to change anything significant yet in our personal lives as a result of this persecution; instead we will just give less and less to those around us because the government is now stealing and redistributing our discretionary income. That means the church gets less, the diocese probably gets nothing, the arts get next to nothing, and all these local charities that have been putting the touch on us will get a "sorry, no thanks" at a time I'm sure they could really use it. So basically, local pets and vets groups will still get our help, but pretty much everyone else can call Barack Obama. It's too bad because we're otherwise inclined to help, but being in the low end of the range of those most directly affected by this change I don't see how that's possible anymore without changing our standard of living, and that's something I'm frankly not yet willing to do. The Mrs. and I are not bad people. We didn't do anything wrong. We went to school, got good jobs, paid off our debt, pay all our taxes and are living our lives the way we planned. God forbid. And for this the government is pursuing us night and day for ever-greater amounts of money.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 02, 2013 01:58 AM (bS6uW)

353 85 GOP Ayes.  So little time - so many primaries.


Posted by: Credo at January 02, 2013 02:15 AM (JEWG5)

354 352 Posted by: Blacksheep at January 02, 2013 05:58 AM (bS6uW) Amen. These people are a dangerous mix of ideologues and power-mad tyrants. We are becoming less free now almost by the day, (today, the 75 watt incandescent bulb has been banned) and there is precious little we can do about it. If there is any way at all you can do your business in cash, do it. Declare less income and pocket as much as you can. To hell with this tyrannical government. If our elected officials cannot or will not kill the Leviathan at our behest, then somehow we are going to have to do it ourselves. I am fundamentally an honest person, but I have had enough. Time to go Greek.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 02, 2013 02:15 AM (XkWWK)

355 All this fucking hand wringing over $60 Billion dollars in new taxes?

Yes, Drew extends it out over ten years - using the trick each side is wont to use to make it all seem SO FUCKING BIG.

But, it's not $600 Billion.  It's $60 Billion in new revenue in 2013.

Drew and all the rest of you going apeshit over $60 Billion dollars is fucking laughable.  The Hurricane Sandy Relief bill is $60 Billion fucking dollars!  I've seen a few mentions of that, but where is the equal outrage?

Me?  I think it's a pretty good deal to make these tax rates permanent.  We got 90% (maybe more..) of the Bush tax rates made permanent last night!  We don't have to do this fight any longer. We had to compromise on a measly $60 Billion.. Big Fucking Deal.  Yes, maybe it's a BFD to Blacksheep, but compromises (and losing elections) have consequences.

Now, we go on to the spending fight.  If the House GOP can show some balls, we can shut the gov't down.  We tie spending to the debt limit fight.. and simply sit in the snow.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 02:16 AM (UTq/I)

356 baner, can'ter, and the ryanater are rinos.

When I said that over two years ago, as baner was about to be speaker, everybody said I was looney.

Howz my ass taste now?

Posted by: Blacksmith8 at January 02, 2013 02:21 AM (Yzu6e)

357 355 Now, we go on to the spending fight. If the House GOP can show some balls, we can shut the gov't down. We tie spending to the debt limit fight.. and simply sit in the snow. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 06:16 AM (UTq/I) Jerry, G-d bless you buddy, but you are missing the picture. SCOAMF just got us to concede that fundamental laws of economics are wrong and that socialism and big government are the answer. They proved that class warfare works. This is what will be taught and written in the history books. THAT was the endgame. And if you think that suddenly Boehner and McConnell are going to take an axe to the Leviathan - and that the Dems are going to willingly go along with spending cuts - you are deluding yourself. You're a good man, but you are dead wrong about this.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 02, 2013 02:23 AM (XkWWK)

358

If I thought for one second the GOP had the balls to tell Obama to go fuck himself on the debt ceiling, I could accept this.

But they will cave - and we all know it.

Posted by: DRayRaven at January 02, 2013 02:23 AM (kM8yp)

359 I'd vote to deport Paul Ryan. He must be purged. We'd also be better off with Pelosi as House Speaker. That way we'd stop losing slower. It's like when the docs gave me a choice of radical chemo or death. I chose death. That showed 'em. I stayed pure, proved my point, sent my message and defeated all of 'em. Harumph.

Posted by: Christine Angle Paladino at January 02, 2013 02:28 AM (r2PLg)

360 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 06:16 AM (UTq/I) ...you are actually arguing that, since our deficits are so unbelievably stratospheric, 60 billion isn't a lot of money? Pulling 60 billion dollars out of the economy is ruinous and doesn't pay for a month of our spending. Increasing taxes on employers will mean fewer employees. This bill guarantees a deeper recession and more misery.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 02, 2013 02:33 AM (uhAkr)

361 SCOAMF just got us to concede that fundamental laws of economics are wrong and that socialism and big government are the answer. They proved that class warfare works. This is what will be taught and written in the history books. THAT was the endgame.
..........
Bah..  I don't see that at all.  I see the GOP made a small compromise in a very bad situation - a situation that they themselves are largely responsible for creating.

The GOP has been counting on a Repub Prez for four years.  They thought that would solve all their problems, and so have been unwilling to stand their ground on the debt ceiling.  They have been all too happy to pass one and two year extensions to the Bush tax cuts.. all timed to expire at points in time that would be advantageous politically only if a Republican would be elected president.

So, we get Barky elected and we are fucked.  The choice? The GOP can stand on principles and I have to pay another $4000 plus in taxes this year, or they compromise and Blacksheep has to pay more.  Sorry, I can't afford $4000 more this year.. I am up to the hilt in debt and medical expenses.

Excuse me if I think we did the best we could under really bad circumstances.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 02:34 AM (UTq/I)

362 Posted by: Christine Angle Paladino at January 02, 2013 06:28 AM (r2PLg) Shouldn't you be masturbating to footage of Scott Brown voting for Dodd-Frank at this time in the morning?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 02, 2013 02:35 AM (uhAkr)

363 Pulling 60 billion dollars out of the economy is ruinous and doesn't pay for a month of our spending. Increasing taxes on employers will mean fewer employees.

This bill guarantees a deeper recession and more misery. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk
..............
Ya see.. it's this kind of sharp analysis I come to AoSHQ for..

So, you would rather have stood on principle and allowed ALL the tax rates to rise, right?  You would rather have seen not $60 billion per year in extra revenues, but $600 Billion per year being sucked out of the economy?  Do I get that right?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 02:37 AM (UTq/I)

364 So, you would rather have stood on principle and allowed ALL the tax rates to rise, right? You would rather have seen not $60 billion per year in extra revenues, but $600 Billion per year being sucked out of the economy? Do I get that right? I would rather make the argument to the American people that raising taxes during a recession is ruinous, because it is. You are doing a snoopy dance because we are getting a little less ruin.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 02, 2013 02:46 AM (uhAkr)

365 A little less?  A whole LOT less.. might I suggest a remedial math course?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 02:51 AM (UTq/I)

366 Is Boehner still crying about how his Plan B From Outer Space didn't get enough votes?  Maybe the slack jawed fool should contemplate that it isn't smart policy to purge members of his own fucking party in the eleventh hour of a major confrontation.  Fucking idiot.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at January 02, 2013 02:53 AM (J11mV)

367 363 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 02, 2013 06:37 AM (UTq/I) Jerry, the rates will eventually go up on everyone because even taxing the wealthiest at 100% of income (assuming they want to work for free) will not make any difference. But this is not the point I am making. It never was about the money/taxes. It was about a political endgame to demonize fiscal conservatism and destroy the GOP, who sadly, are more than willing to allow that to happen. Yes, I agree with you, that we should have stood on principle last year, but Boehner and company pissed in the face of the people who put the gavel in his hand in the 2010 midterms. They are not conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Going forward now, any talk of cutting taxes and spending will be thought of as irresponsible an wrong, despite historical and factual evidence to the contrary. The pain and suffering of the average American has only been delayed. We have gained nothing. The GOP has gained nothing. And if you think that they are going to suddenly grow a pair on the coming debt ceiling or mythical spending cuts, you really are kidding yourself. Sorry.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 02, 2013 02:55 AM (XkWWK)

368 600 billion here, 600 billion there - pretty soon you are talking real money.  Also, if you seriously think there is a "permanent" tax cut for the middle class you are insane.  Unless you are saying we will eventually declare bankruptcy. 

Posted by: Panther at January 02, 2013 02:55 AM (wrcD1)

369 365 A little less? A whole LOT less.. might I suggest a remedial math course? We are increasing the tax burden on the people who pay the most already while a massive portion of the population pays in nothing. This bill just reinforces the mindset that 'the rich' need to get soaked. I get it Jerry - your taxes didn't go up, so it's a great deal. Fuck the other guy who already pays for everything. 60 billion is a paltry sum to him. Small business owners don't need protection or anything. I somehow imagine that if the cutoff were below you, you would suddenly be a paladin for tax cuts. That's sad.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 02, 2013 03:00 AM (uhAkr)

370 If the GOP can't deliver big on spending cuts, a yes vote is going to look pretty bad in a few years.

What do you mean, "if"?

Posted by: Dodd at January 02, 2013 04:01 AM (KmoFg)

371 311 308:Unfortunately, the TRUE CONSERVATIVES are too busy undermining and dividing the party for this message to ever get across. Posted by: andrew at January 02, 2013 02:49 AM (5PdYy) Really? Do you recall the convention wherein Mr. Romney and his henchmen chose to exclude Sarah Palin and Ron Paul. Do you not recall all the drama that was averted on the convention floor by not including these two people? The point wasn't that Palin and Paul were not included, they could have been anyone else. The point was that the American people got to see the "big tent party" close the tent door to some who might want to enter. They figured in their American Idol brains that if the big tent party could do it to such luminaries as Palin and Paul, they could do it to them, Ms or Mr ordinary American citizen. That's where they lost their election.

Posted by: Caustic at January 02, 2013 05:12 AM (/b8+5)

372 370 If the GOP can't deliver big on spending cuts, a yes vote is going to look pretty bad in a few years. What do you mean, "if"? Posted by: Dodd at January 02, 2013 08:01 AM (KmoFg) You mean "when".

Posted by: Caustic at January 02, 2013 05:20 AM (/b8+5)

373 That's where they lost their election.

Posted by: Caustic at January 02, 2013 09:12 AM (/b8+5)

 

There are hundreds of variables determining a given outcome and maybe that was one of them, but--although it may seem so to Palin and Paul supporters--the non-invitation of Palin and Paul was not the deciding element, in my view. If Romney's son was telling the truth, his father wasn't keen on a 2012 presidential run. A candidate unenthusiastic about his own campaign cannot expect to infuse his supporters with the drive needed to win. You've got to want it.

Oh, and yeah: about Ron Paul. By refusing to endorse the Romney/Ryan ticket, Ron Paul gave his own special brand of approval to those supporters of his leaning toward staying home on election day. Screw Ron Paul.

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 05:54 AM (vtiE6)

374 I think we at least need to be intellectually honest here and admit that tax cuts for the rich is not a popular political position.  And raising everyone's taxes in order to protect 1% of tax payers would have been even worse. 
Of all the hills to die on, this one was the worst. 

I wanted to go over the fiscal cliff, but I'll admit that it was almost purely emotional, I just wanted Americans to see what they were buying into, but it probably would have lasted only a couple weeks before something likely even more "progressive" would have passed.

I honestly think that the deal itself is actually a good one.  It's a massive tax cut compared to the Clinton rates, and locks in about 98% of taxpayers to the Bush rates.  It also gives tax relief to those at the very top.

I believe in trickle down economics and I'm a member of the 1%, but the GOP needs to be very careful that it doesn't look like the caricature the Left has drawn where it doesn't seem to care about the Middle Class.  Making everyone get a giant tax increase unless millionaires got a tax break too would at best have been a push for the GOP.

Posted by: McAdams at January 02, 2013 06:46 AM (QTX4Z)

375 Boehner tells Reid to go fuck himself, and then turns around and grabs his ankles.

What a piece of shit.

Posted by: Michelleisacrackwhore at January 02, 2013 06:49 AM (qBLA2)

376 Boehner tells Reid to go fuck himself, and then turns around and grabs his ankles.

What a piece of shit.

Posted by: Michelleisacrackwhore at January 02, 2013 10:49 AM (qBLA2)

 

Boehner's biggest mistake was not cutting a deal. The GOP's position is too weak to do anything more than minimize the damage. No, Boehner's biggest mistake was cutting a deal in private, behind closed doors. The President cultivates an image as the most reasonable man in the room, not the rigid, unyielding demogogue we know lurks just under the surface. Transparency in negotiation would've shown his true face.

Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 07:53 AM (vtiE6)

377 Posted by: troyriser at January 02, 2013 09:54 AM (vtiE6) I'm not a Paul, nor a Palin supporter. For many Romney was a reluctant vote. In the last month or so prior to the election, romney caused enough voters to have "hair on the back of your neck rising" moments, those folks either stayed home or didn't vote the presidential line. The onus for that falls completely on the republican party. How angry Santorum, Bachman, Gingrich, Paul, Perry, Huntsman and Cain must have been to hear that Romney didn't want the job? When they knew they wanted it and would have given their all and then some. If the American people got a sense that Romney didn't want or wasn't up to the job, perhaps their non voting behavior might have been justified as they saw the candidate they supported thrown to the wolves in an over dramatic debate spectacle designed to eviscerate the other participants future presidential prospects. What they didn't see was the collateral damage that occurred during this fiasco, the republican party was also abandoned by many. Those who supported any one of the other candidates were angry and reluctantly signed on to romney in accordance with the "party loyalty" meme. But, having watched Boehner and his behavior of late and having seen yet another holiday vote with which many are not entirely happy, the republican party may have sealed the deal with many constituents and they are headed toward whatever third party arises or towards "independent". Guess the republicans will have to put up millionaire candidates henceforth since they won't have the donations to give money to any candidate, that is, if the constituency behaves the way they are thinking and that is to starve the republicans of their money, their donation.

Posted by: Caustic at January 02, 2013 08:58 AM (/b8+5)

378 The Democrats have much more power, hold the Senate and the White House. They have the press, education and entertainment on their side.


Taxes are still going up, the debt is still going up spending is still going up. Sigh.... It's ugly but they voted for a reduction in tax increases.


Prager is right, the progressives steal from the future to pay for the present.


So... moving right along. If the conservatives could wheel and deal, the next question might be: How much are we lowering the debt ceiling? Let's start with $3.5 Trillion. That's with the elimination of the military sequester and without any reduction to the national security budget or any tax increase. We have to reduce spending. We get that for free.





Posted by: OldHardHead at January 02, 2013 09:19 AM (hTkdz)

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