Ace of Spades HQ

September 10, 2013

Speaking of Our Dishonest and Stupid Political Culture, Here's Mitch McConnell
— Ace

Why am I picking on him?

It's not that what he's doing is so exceptional here. There will be 70 other Republicans making the same basic case: The reason I'm against this war is that I'm so pro-war and Obama's being all weak about war and stuff.

There is a silly tradition of claiming both sides of a debate in America. Why be the anti-war candidate when, like Barack Obama, you can be both the anti-war candidate (brb not negotiatin' an SOF with Iraq) and also the super pro-war candidate (brb gonna really take it to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan).

Every once in a while there's an issue where you really can take both sides of it, or attack your opponent from both sides on it, but as a general rule, this whole "I'm voting for Peace because I'm such a Super Hawk" (or, I suppose, I'm voting for War because I'm so pro-Peace) is just a bit of stupid nonsense for LIVs.

So here's McConnell's too-cute-by-half-stupid formulation that annoys me. He objects to the limitation on the duration of force specified in the now-shelved AUMF:

Â“There is absolutely no reason, no reason to signal to the enemy when and how and for how long you plan to strike them. None. As IÂ’ve said before, you donÂ’t send out a Â‘save the dateÂ’ card to the enemy.Â”

Really? Did you want an unconditional AUMF for a war none of us particularly wish to be involved in the first place? (Caveat: Some people say he meant that we shouldn't telegraph our punches. I answer that in a comment.)

I don't believe he believes that. I believe the only circumstances he'd entertain approving an AUMF in this particular case -- a minor war of choice in which the goal is, apparently, to "send a message" and "preserve credibility" -- if there were in fact some limitation on presidential authority to call up the reserves and mount a full invasion.

At least I hope that's what he thinks.

Here's an idea:

Why don't politicians just try telling the truth ? Why get cute about it? I'm sure Mitch McConnell has some genuine and defensible reasons for opposing this war.

Such as: The Free Syrian Army is increasing dominated by Al Qaeda.

Such as: Obama hasn't specified exactly what is plan is. Like, does he plan to take out Syria's airplanes, airports, and artillery brigades? If so he should say so, so we could make an... what's that old term that no one uses anymore? Oh, right... an Informed Decision upon an important matter in a democratic system of government.

There is no particular problem with an end-date for an AUMF. Here's the thing: If there's a good reason to continue the war, the President could always come back to Congress to get a fresh authorization, and, assuming there's a good reason for such an extension, then Congress would presumably grant it.

Why does everything have to be cute?

You know what's a really cute and powerful method of persuasion? The Truth. The truth, and talking to American citizens as if they're adults.

Just telling them what you actually think. Just leveling with them like adults level with each other, once in a while, when there aren't cameras on them.

Again, this isn't McConnell's sin per se. This infects every aspect of public communication. Everything is cutesy messaging and stagey posturing.

Not only is it false, but worse yet, people know it's false. We see through it. It's silly.

So who is the show for, exactly?

How about we start doing what Americans used to do when we were so thrilled to have a free democratic republic two hundred years ago? Where we just explain our Actual Positions and Genuine Beliefs and trust that the truth will win the day 7 or 8 times out of Ten?

Actually, Like Most Things, This is Probably John McCain's Fault. McCain's idea of war is that you never fight a war halfway.

I guess he gets this from Vietnam. I understand that.

But he's always the guy pushing the idea that we must have Boots on the Ground if we're going to take any military action at all.

That is, that military action is a binary thing: We either have None of it, or All of it.

Can this possibly stand up to scrutiny? It's a fun thing to shout and you feel self-righteous yelling it, but is there really no place in American War-Planning for a few cruise missiles and B-2 bombings as an attack which is neither "Nothing" nor "Everything"?

Isn't it more reasonable to say that there will be some threats or harrassments that demand a deterring, punishing strike, and yet are not quite so severe as to require the Full Faith and Credit of the entire American Armed Forces?

Was Reagan a girly-girl for just bombing Tripoli a little and letting Qaddafi understand he could, and would, attempt to kill him if he didn't learn to mind his manners?

I was always baffled by McCain's insistence that we must be willing to put Boots on the Ground in Kosovo, a war I barely even supported. (Or, actually, didn't support, but so long as it was a nearly cost-free air campaign I didn't get loud in my opposition.)

Why would I wish to compound the error by doubling down on it?

Worse yet, I picked up the hue and cry for Boots on the Ground from McCain, myself. I wanted a way to oppose the war, and McCain's SuperHawk "Let's commit 100%!" mantra sounded good.

But it was opportunistic and I never believed it. It let me pose as a Kosovo Super-Hawk, which, I guess, felt "good" or something, while actually opposing the operation as Not My Concern.

I guess we all have our vanities. John McCain more than most. But we shouldn't let our vanities and our cheap political slogans be confused with our Real Beliefs and Actual Opinions and Real Thoughts.

I don't want to go through this process again where I pick up on some convenient political sloganeering again -- like Bush's Idealistic talk of bringing democracy to foreign shores -- and, by dint of sheer repetition, begin thinking it's Real.

It's not. It's a slogan. And slogans are for bumpers, not for brains.

Posted by: Ace at 02:21 PM | Comments (235)
Post contains 1075 words, total size 6 kb.

1 1ish

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at September 10, 2013 02:22 PM (HVff2)

2 McConnell is a phony, he pretends to be a conservative, but makes deals with Biden & Reid behind closed doors. I hope he loses his reelection. I donÂ’t care if a dem takes his place, heÂ’s got to go.

Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 02:24 PM (z4WKX)

3 A true dyed-in-the-wool politician.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:24 PM (DmNpO)

4 To any politicians who may read this or hear about it. Leave Syria the fuck alone. Tomorrow is the 9/11 anniversary. Do you really want to help al Qaeda. Fucking wake up you dopes

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at September 10, 2013 02:25 PM (HVff2)

5 There is no particular problem with an end-date for an AUMF. Here's the thing: If there's a good reason to continue the war, the President could always come back to Congress to get a fresh authorization, and, assuming there's a good reason for such an extension, then Congress would presumably grant it. Why does everything have to be cute? ************* Well no general would want this artificial date constraint--you understand that--right?

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:25 PM (r2PLg)

6 Ed Henry ‏@edhenryTV 55s McCain called Putin demand of mil action off table "unacceptable" & sounds like President agrees, not talking mil action off table tonite

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:25 PM (DmNpO)

You know what's a really cute and powerful method of persuasion? The Truth. The truth, and talking to American citizens as if they're adults.

I fear you're overestimating the American public.

Over and over again it's been demonstrated (see: Barack Obama) that lies, 'triangulation', deceit, being vague and taking both sides of any given issue works.

Being honest and telling people they can't have and eat their cake too? Prepare for torches and pitchforks.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 10, 2013 02:26 PM (SY2Kh)

8 I'll take McConnell's too-cute-by-half-stupid formulation over Boehner's and Cantor's complete capitulation any day.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 10, 2013 02:26 PM (7Nq2G)

9 Assad waits till day 89. Makes a major attack--if he could. Then what? A military planner wouldn't want to rely on whatever this administration would do with that. Benghazi being the most recent thing.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:26 PM (r2PLg)

10 I'll take McConnell's too-cute-by-half-stupid formulation over Boehner's and Cantor's complete capitulation any day. *** It galls me that the House continues to allow that asshat to speak for us.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:28 PM (DmNpO)

11 if they want it to be popular, they'll have to talk about nuking both sides.

Posted by: X at September 10, 2013 02:28 PM (KHo8t)

12 Ed Henry ‏@edhenryTV 1m Senior official says on Hill POTUS sd admin to "work w/members of Congress on authorizing language" -- as in NOTtaking mil action off table

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:28 PM (DmNpO)

13 The Syrian Military Rest, Rearm, and Reorganize Act of 2013.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (81XGr)

14 No, no, really, we are moderate and support democracy and freedom.

Posted by: Khalid petting his collection of heads at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (Aif/5)

15 or, you know, as a war weary hawk, be like sure if you want a war...the guy did use WMD's on his own people.

Posted by: oeJay44incday at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (QxSug)

16 Voter: Just be straight with us. Give us the plain truth.

Politician: OK. Medicare and Social Security are going to bankrupt the country if changes aren't made soon.

Voter: BURN THE HERETIC.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (SY2Kh)

17 Lowandslow McConnell is guilty of capitulation as well. I would wager to say he and McFucknuts are the GOP champs in the senate

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (HVff2)

18 13 The Syrian Military Rest, Rearm, and Reorganize Act of 2013.

Oops. "brought to you by personal courtesy of Vladimir Putin."

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:29 PM (81XGr)

19 To put an artificial end by date--for war or an act of war--where we then go back to debate phase is the lie. It's not how the real world happens. Artificial.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (r2PLg)

20 Whoa! Darrell Issa ‏@DarrellIssa 14s The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (DmNpO)

21 Everything has to be cute, Ace, because that's the Twitter culture we find ourselves in now.

Posted by: Null at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (xjpRj)

22 we don't really have very many "generals" these days...

mostly we have political hacks with stars on their uniforms, who will spout whatever silliness they are told, just so they can move up another rung before they retire into consulting.

Posted by: Mayor George Zimmerman at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (q+fqH)

23 McConnell always reminds me of Droopy.

His problem is that Droopy has him beat in the smarts department.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (vd7A8)

24 Because the TRUTH really worked wonders for Mittens!

Posted by: Oscar Meyer at September 10, 2013 02:30 PM (+kafi)

25 20 The @StateDept has until Sept 24

Shit, does he also know SMODÂ™ comes on the 23rd?

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (81XGr)

26 The point that McConnell made was one of the things that outraged me too, but it may be because of my perspective (former military). Listening to a president give away his own battle plans was surreal to say the least.

Posted by: baldilocks at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (RFl8c)

27 Where we just explain our Actual Positions and Genuine Beliefs and trust that the truth will win the day 7 or 8 times out of Ten? Because it doesnÂ’t. Under that scenario, in an election with two sides, the truth will win approximately 50% of the time, and lose approximately 50% of the time. In 100% of elections, the truth wins for only one side. Also, the truth just isnÂ’t so hot. ItÂ’s a lot harder to walk back the truth than it is to walk back something youÂ’ve never believed in. Further, the truthÂ—that we donÂ’t know everything, that progress goes in fits and spurts, and that sometimes we should just plain not do anythingÂ—is often not what people want to hear, and itÂ’s easier to make fun of.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (QF8uk)

28 Obamas out there now telling Congress to postpone any vote because it could "undermine"the "agreement."

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (9+ccr)

29 truth?

pfft, why that won't do when honing my skills and acting for hundreds of millions.

anyway yeah, no one wants to actually make the case to the world? that syria not only has a horrid dictator , but also half the rebels are al qaeda the dictator is fighting.
They didn't even Attempt to actually make the case of Assad using CW. they didn't think Americans needed too much information right?

and putin wants the pipelines .
and saud's doesn't want that much Russian influence over the energy market
Don't cut into Their pie!

poor europe , china wanting the energy and the saud's do not want to fight their own battle they would like to use Our guys and gals blood to fight for Them.

honesty might kinda screw up the whole
No blood for Oil! dealeo they've had a monopoly on for a decade.

Posted by: willow at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (nqBYe)

30 Not only is it false, but worse yet, people know it's false. We see through it. It's silly. So who is the show for, exactly? The Media. You've seen it time and again. Some talking head will credulously report something Obama said that everyone knows is a lie. Right after that they will report something inoffensive a Republican said and act as if it's the DUMBEST THING EVER! The people who are watching at home then take their cues from the emotional display and mimic their reaction.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 10, 2013 02:31 PM (yETln)

31 The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet --------- And ignored.

Posted by: @StateDept at September 10, 2013 02:32 PM (Aif/5)

32 wow this "invitation" to tonights' BO speech is . . special, isn't it? https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/377557842586116097/photo/1 It looks like he's the President of Syria for some reason . . . dammit at this point I'd switch

Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 10, 2013 02:32 PM (2up3Q)

33 Now how do you expect consultants to get paid if politicians treat the electorate like grownups? *clings to connection* nooooo don't leave me

Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at September 10, 2013 02:32 PM (oJIV4)

34 The media makes the truth less liberating than it should be, if it is heard at all. That's problem number one.

Posted by: KG at September 10, 2013 02:33 PM (IPz9m)

35 How about this for a reason why to oppose it, Mitch: We're only in this because Captain KickAss let his freak flag fly and went off teleprompter.

Every time this asshat deviates from a Valerie Jarret Approved script and starts going off on his own it ends up being a clusterfuck starting with "the police acted stupidly" and on from there for the last five years running.

What happened was he finally went off script on something really important like foreign policy. I just can't believe its taken this long given that he can't shut the fuck up for five minutes.

Posted by: B at September 10, 2013 02:33 PM (6iEQd)

36 Why be true
when No Labels
can work for you?

Posted by: adams crowning porn at September 10, 2013 02:33 PM (gQKHE)

37 Assad did it, , we said so, and You guys don't need evidence.

(OT but still about syria) so shoot me.

Posted by: willow at September 10, 2013 02:34 PM (nqBYe)

Eh,

I'm not going to beat McConnell up for one statement out of a 4 minute speech without more context. If you're listing the myriad of shit Obama's screwed up on Syria alone, I could see chucking this one in even if it's your weakest one.

Posted by: tsrblke at September 10, 2013 02:34 PM (GaqMa)

39
Obama was and is the champ at this cutesy stuff, never ever taking a stand on anything and then claiming credit for the good and pointing fingers for the bad. Then one day he shoots his mouth off and its almost WWIII.

How I would love for politicians to just say what the hell they think, but they have all learned to play parlor games with language and legislative games with laws.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 10, 2013 02:34 PM (sj9LN)

40 Congresscritters are convinced the cute shit gets them elected. How many times has every little procedural amendment pulled by either side gotten breathlessly covered by political blogs? Yeah, sometimes, it matters...but on the average? They'd probably be better off screwing their aides.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:34 PM (YNK3y)

41 My parents always exacted an extra toll on me when I lied. That was regardless of the offense. Surprisingly (not), I taught my children the same lesson --- don't lie about it, and it will go much easier on you. A family needs a level of trust on both sides.

I'm sure most of the parental morons here have similar stories. Ace has touched on my biggest gripe by far about our leaders; they lie to us all the fucking time. So, then I am practically forced to hate them for what are, liars. This applies to both sides of the political divide.

Though I gotta admit, TFG has raised the bar since I believe NOTHING that the Festering Carbuncle of Lies says.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 02:34 PM (ccXZP)

42 "The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet"

And if State doesn't? Will there be arrests and imprisonment? If the answers are yes and yes, then this date is worth waiting for.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at September 10, 2013 02:35 PM (vd7A8)

43 *clings to connection* nooooo don't leave me

Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at September 10, 2013 06:32 PM (oJIV4)

Quick! Someone text message AtC some decadent fudge brownies!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 10, 2013 02:35 PM (sGtp+)

44 What happened was he finally went off script on something really important like foreign policy. Posted by: B at September 10, 2013 06:33 PM (6iEQd) And the kicker is that his baller SecState fucked him up with the EXACT SAME MOVE!

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:35 PM (YNK3y)

45 Putin and Assad are laughing their asses off right now. Planning to have Hawaiian Shirt Day this Friday.

Posted by: mpfs at September 10, 2013 02:35 PM (UDY9u)

46 The only thing I know for sure - is what I won't be doing at 9pm.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:36 PM (81XGr)

47 eh, our leaders can NEVAH let Foreign Powers know that we are all too tired and played out to fight whenever wherever...jesus what ridiculous pose to have to strike and keep but there you have it.

Posted by: Lady Billingsgate (of the North) at September 10, 2013 02:36 PM (A+FbE)

48 >>So who is the show for, exactly? Unless I missed something, you answered your own question. >>Every once in a while there's an issue where you really can take both sides of it, or attack your opponent from both sides on it, but as a general rule, this whole "I'm voting for Peace because I'm such a Super Hawk" (or, I suppose, I'm voting for War because I'm so pro-Peace) is just a bit of stupid nonsense for LIVs. Ignore the LIVs at your peril. They are legion.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2013 02:36 PM (g1DWB)

Yeah I listened to it, and I think the "save the date" reference is more related to Obama giving Assad so much heads up about the attack.

"We're going to attack you, put your stuff away!" "No really, soon."

If Obama did attack (which is less likely) it'd have destroyed the efficiency. Hell, I think Obama's told Assad everything he knows, the rest is just random.

Posted by: tsrblke at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (GaqMa)

50 Please see update...

Just had some more thoughts. I don't want to say they're important, but I guess they're important to me.

Posted by: ace at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (/IWYB)

51 A politician will often make a statement so fuzzy that it can later be interpreted any number of different ways, depending on how public opinion changes post-statement

c'mon man this is Politics 101

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (8sCoq)

52 I hate to keep banging away at this but there are a lot of parallels between this and the run up to Benghazi. It was run by the State Department. The State Department is naive as hell. The State Department did not want to listen to the military advisors or the lower level staff--in country--closest to the scene. They wanted to keep it--"small" and do it with the least concern for the worst case scenarios. When the shit hit the fan--the Obama Administration went into debate mode, assumed the CYA position and didn't even spin up-FEST. So---I don't know--I am having a hard time getting outraged with McConnell's reasoning here. I get that it easier to be mad at him because he might actually care about what the hell we think. Obama doesn't.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (r2PLg)

53 I am for anything as long as little boys are still on the table

Posted by: Harry Reid is a pederast at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (Pr6hk)

54 Plain Dealing vs Sophistry. Fight! ... Sophistry wins. Again.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 02:37 PM (ZPrif)

55 50 Please see update... Just had some more thoughts. I don't want to say they're important, but I guess they're important to me. Posted by: ace at September 10, 2013 06:37 PM (/IWYB) *********** Okay-

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:38 PM (r2PLg)

56 And if State doesn't? Will there be arrests and imprisonment? If the answers are yes and yes, then this date is worth waiting for. **** I like that he didn't release a string of cutesy tweets or try to be too clever. His to-the-point tweet has an air of I've had enough of this shit to it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:38 PM (DmNpO)

57 At the end of the day, the GOPs strategy of fielding inoffensive milquetoasts will win over the undecided moderates. We just haven't got to the end of the day yet.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 10, 2013 02:39 PM (HPNED)

58 I must be allowed to fulfill my destiny and live-up to my family's military legacy

Posted by: John McCain at September 10, 2013 02:39 PM (Pr6hk)

59 Bring back Plain Dealing! Down with Sophistry! Unless that would help our side win! In which case ... use slightly less Sophistry than the other side ... just enough to win ... not so much it's too annoying! I demand marginally more Plain Dealing, and marginally less Sophistry! Unless the other side starts winning, of course. Then, yeah, go back to the Sophistry thing.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 02:39 PM (ZPrif)

60 Is McConnell a weasel? Sure. Are most politicians now a days weasels? Yeah But having said that, I give you 2 words: obama kerry Dumb and Dumber We're all gonna die

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 02:40 PM (9Xc5j)

61 I believe these bipartisan reforms will be progressively and decisively implemented to a certain and reasonable - yet meaningfully quantifiable - extent.

Wow, I just said nothing. Neat.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:40 PM (81XGr)

62

How about we dust off the old Wing Attack Plan R

Posted by: General Ripper at September 10, 2013 02:40 PM (Pr6hk)

63 How about we dust off the old Wing Attack Plan R Posted by: General Ripper at September 10, 2013 06:40 PM (Pr6hk) About fucking time

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 02:41 PM (9Xc5j)

64 Let's work up a Number 6 on 'em

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 02:41 PM (8sCoq)

65 Well again the last template we have from this administration is Libya. To counterbalance their "small footprint" maybe you have to go Big Foot. It's a negotiation process and you end up with at least more than-- "unbelievably small." Hopefully.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:42 PM (r2PLg)

66 Valerie, what should we do?!!??

Posted by: Barky McBamastain at September 10, 2013 02:42 PM (Pr6hk)

67 How about we dust off the old Wing Attack Plan R Posted by: General Ripper at September 10, 2013 06:40 PM (Pr6hk) I am awaiting the "survival kit contents check"

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at September 10, 2013 02:42 PM (qnqMM)

68 I'd bet pre-emptive nuclear barrages are getting a lot more attention in the minds of strategic planners than they did last month.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:42 PM (81XGr)

69 90 days my ass. As soon as a 90 day thing would pass, it would be revised.

Posted by: UWP at September 10, 2013 02:43 PM (r98SZ)

70 I should have taken a position in the State Department, random groping is SOP

Posted by: Bob Filner at September 10, 2013 02:43 PM (Pr6hk)

71 Let me show you on the Satan doll where I touched them.

Posted by: Richard Dawkins at September 10, 2013 02:43 PM (Dwehj)

Any other political party would be salivating at the thought of 2014.

But we're the stupid party.

Posted by: CAC at September 10, 2013 02:43 PM (W11lu)

73 I'd bet pre-emptive nuclear barrages are getting a lot more attention in the minds of strategic planners than they did last month. Posted by: akula51 at September 10, 2013 06:42 PM (81XGr) Nah, Barky is busy trying to figure out how to decommission more of our nuclear arsenal on the down low.

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (XdnQT)

74 ace, your updated mindthought are all thinky and True and stuff.

Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (VJ3+p)

75 but they have all learned to play parlor games with language and legislative games with laws. You're welcome.

Posted by: Harvard Law, for example at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (FcR7P)

76 72 But we're the stupid party.

Are we counting the votes yet?

Not sure there's a reason to bother otherwise.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (81XGr)

77 But Valerie, I want a want a war-time consigliere

Posted by: Captain Kick-Ass at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (Pr6hk)

78 Plus you never want to be the family of the guys that get to be-- "the small foot print".

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:44 PM (r2PLg)

79 ace, your updated mindthought are all thinky and True and stuff. Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at September 10, 2013 06:44 PM (VJ3+p) High praise, indeed.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at September 10, 2013 02:45 PM (qnqMM)

80 Should have sent in the ATF when we had the chance

Posted by: David Koresh at September 10, 2013 02:45 PM (Pr6hk)

81 BuzzFeedBenny ✔ @bennyjohnson

This Obama speech invitation is beyond words. pic.twitter.com/o6qsPXvA36

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 02:45 PM (8sCoq)

82 73 Nah, Barky is busy trying to figure out how to decommission more of our nuclear arsenal on the down low.

Certainly wasn't referencing any strategic planners in this country...lol Not sure we have any of those left. It's all news cycle management now, and that shit has a 15 second lifespan. No need for strategy there, it's 100% tactical.

Posted by: [/i][/s][/b]akula51 at September 10, 2013 02:45 PM (81XGr)

83 I was always baffled by McCain's insistence that we must be willing to put Boots on the Ground in Kosovo, a war I barely even supported /// Interesting thing about Kosovo - one particular Tomcat squadron, VFA-41, got a lot of credit for winning the war with their pioneering air-to-ground techniques (including use of FLIR). It was the first war, in fact, that was actually won entirely from the air.* *of course, we were supporting partisans on the ground, so this isn't entirely accurate. Their story is covered well in "Black Aces High."

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:46 PM (YNK3y)

The Affordable War Act.

Pwned by a London Ophthalmologist and a KGB agent. hahahahahahha.

Yhis is gonna b great

Posted by: dr kill at September 10, 2013 02:46 PM (o9V+x)

85

I didn't like this movie either.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 10, 2013 02:46 PM (TIIx5)

86

Mitch McConnell - The Warlord of Atlantis

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 10, 2013 02:46 PM (kdS6q)

87 Brit Hume on for extra Obama mocking. Bringing the hammer. The droopy dog hammer.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 02:46 PM (ZPrif)

88

An intellectual is a man that uses more words than necessary to tell more than he knows

Posted by: Dwight D Eisenhower at September 10, 2013 02:47 PM (Pr6hk)

89 Certainly wasn't referencing any strategic planners in this country...lol Not sure we have any of those left. We have a metric shit ton of them. It's just that they're all Majors and Lieutenant Colonels and therefore....do not count.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at September 10, 2013 02:47 PM (qnqMM)

One problem with the tell the truth strategy...

http://tinyurl.com/oqdyd74

Posted by: Warden at September 10, 2013 02:47 PM (HzhBE)

91 Although I know why the politician scum don't want to argue a Declaration of War (because it would contain pretty clear unwafflable language), I think that should be the standard for almost any military action overseas. Pin the political bastards down and make them own it and have thier re-election riding on it! Then, once you have a Declaration of War, go balls to the wall, define victory, and win by any means necessary.

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 02:48 PM (XdnQT)

92 I bought into a lot of Bush's bullshit over the years, too. I still really like the guy, but I think he was part of the problem.

Posted by: Eton Cox at September 10, 2013 02:48 PM (q177U)

93
Here's a good policy that anybody in DC can feel free to call their own: Let's not get involved in a civil war where both sides hate us.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 10, 2013 02:49 PM (sj9LN)

Here's an idea:

Why don't politicians just try telling the truth?

Heh, another funny sarcastic comment from Ace.

Posted by: ExSnipe at September 10, 2013 02:49 PM (57ubW)

95 Now this one says RESET, right?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at September 10, 2013 02:49 PM (Pr6hk)

96 You *should* wage a war to win. So in that sense I don't disagree with McCain. The problems with Obama's war are: 1. there is no clear national security issue at stake; 2. the humanitarian grounds for going in are debatable, at best (otherwise the "international community" would be on board with it), and require us arguing that Syrians being killed by Assad's chemical weapons is worth risking US lives for but Syrians being beheaded or blown to bits etc etc is not; 3. the military goals are too vague to be able to define success; if they are "get rid of chemical weapons" they would require a lot more than an Unbelievably Small effort; 4. a partial effort is likely to make things worse in the region as signaled by Iran and as evidenced by Obama's other Arab Spring efforts.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 02:49 PM (5H6zj)

97 If McConnell "only" meant that we don't telegraph our punches...

Is he saying the President shouldn't delay a week or two to *let a democratic republic have a democratic republic debate on war*?

Is he saying Obama's sin was that he should have just asserted plenary constitutional authority to start lobbing missiles on his own say-so?

That sounds bad to me.

Posted by: ace at September 10, 2013 02:50 PM (/IWYB)

98 Pretty much for all recorded history we've had people asking for politico types to quit the sophistry, say what they mean, and just, for fuck's sake, be honest for once. But the same incentives thousands of years ago apply today. Politicos lie and fudge and weasel and half-truth it because .. it works.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 02:50 PM (ZPrif)

99 Noooo I'm missing Brit being a wee bitch that is one of my favorite things.

Posted by: alexthechick - Here SMOD SMOD SMOD at September 10, 2013 02:50 PM (VJ3+p)

100 20 Whoa! Darrell Issa ‏@DarrellIssa 14s The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 06:30 PM (DmNpO) Hans blix is starting to chuckle at the blustering of Issa.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 10, 2013 02:50 PM (S+6IC)

101 Does anyone remember what McCain said during the first Gulf War when HW Bush left so much of Saddam's capability intact?

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 02:50 PM (5H6zj)

102 Hard not to like Bush. He meant what he said and wasn't swayed by political bullshit. He also achieved victory in Iraq, although starting that war in the first place is a questionable decision in hindsight.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:51 PM (YNK3y)

103 Why don't politicians just try telling the truth ? Because that's the defining characteristic of politicians. They have to be "cute" and as inoffensive as possible. Why get cute about it? I'm sure Mitch McConnell has some genuine and defensible reasons for opposing this war. There are at least a half-dozen good ones. But if he lists them, then some constituency will be offended by at least one. This also preserves his credibility when it comes to supporting future military action. Such as: The Free Syrian Army is increasing dominated by Al Qaeda. Yeah, but McCain says they're not. And here's the thing: McConnell is the Majority Leader. So he also has to keep his caucus together. Such as: Obama hasn't specified exactly what is plan is. Hell, a plan only stands up until it meets the enemy. Obama doesn't even have an *objective* in all this.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 10, 2013 02:51 PM (T0NGe)

104 why does everything have to be so cute? ask the super twitter man ?
just wow.

Posted by: Dread Zeppelin at September 10, 2013 02:51 PM (qQk+U)

105 >>>You *should* wage a war to win. So in that sense I don't disagree with McCain.

but win what? A war doesn't have to end in regime change. A military strike could result in a change of the regime's behavior.

Does every attack -- not a war, but an attack; and history is loaded with punitive attacks; the Punitive Expedition of 1908 or so taught Santa Ana and Mexico a lesson -- have to be with the goal of regime change and rebuilding?

Posted by: ace at September 10, 2013 02:51 PM (/IWYB)

106 Shhh! Watch closely now. President Sir Bedevere is about to lay some knowlege on us.

Posted by: Count de Monet at September 10, 2013 02:52 PM (BAS5M)

107 By the way, the bombing in Kosovo had he support of every single NATO member with the exception of Greece. And it wasn't an unbelievably small pinprick, it was a month of constant aerial bombardment including Cruise missiles. People can disregard the importance of an alliance all they want but Clinton at least had a coalition. Obama has Obama and nobody else.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 10, 2013 02:52 PM (g1DWB)

108 pic.twitter.com/o6qsPXvA36

c'mon, I thought you guys would eat this alive

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 02:53 PM (8sCoq)

109 but win what? A war doesn't have to end in regime change. /// I mean, in this case, anything short of regime change is kind of pointless.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:54 PM (YNK3y)

110 97 If McConnell "only" meant that we don't telegraph our punches... Is he saying the President shouldn't delay a week or two to *let a democratic republic have a democratic republic debate on war*? Is he saying Obama's sin was that he should have just asserted plenary constitutional authority to start lobbing missiles on his own say-so? That sounds bad to me. Posted by: ace at September 10, 2013 06:50 PM (/IWYB) **************** I was half paying attention to him in the Senate-- I thought it was about an artificial 90 day limit. I doubt the transcript is up yet.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)

111 Politicians lie and evade and weasel-word it because ... those who don't don't stay in office for long. Survival of the fittest. Politicos are selected on the basis of slipperiness. Voters like the image of honesty, but the reality of sophistry.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 02:55 PM (ZPrif)

112

The most interesting thing about the book 1984 is that it isn't good enough to kill Winston Smith. He has to believe, really believe, that 2+2 is whatever Big Brother says it is.

Because there's far more power in making a man believe a lie than in killing him for being defiant.

Posted by: Warden at September 10, 2013 02:55 PM (HzhBE)

113 I still don't know what the fuck a "muscular" strike intentionally designed to not tip the balance of power is accomplishing. Besides killing more women and children, of course. And we all know that happens with almost any use of airpower.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 02:55 PM (YNK3y)

114 #marketdrivensmartpolitik

Posted by: Your Betters in DC at September 10, 2013 02:56 PM (EZl54)

115

Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"

Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "

Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"

Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!" Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price."

McConnel is haggling over the price...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 02:56 PM (lZBBB)

116 Â“And IÂ’ve also thought a lot about the context, about this PresidentÂ’s vision, and his record, and what it says about whether we should be confident in his ability to bring about a favorable outcome in Syria. Because how we got to this point says a lot about where we may be headed. Â“And thatÂ’s why, before announcing my vote, I think itÂ’s important to look back at some of this PresidentÂ’s other decisions on matters of foreign policy and national security, and then turn back to what heÂ’s proposing now in Syria, because, in the end, these things canÂ’t be separated ********** Benghazi.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:58 PM (r2PLg)

117

Kerry announced he will not allow Benghazi survivors to made available to Congress

fucker

Posted by: thunderb at September 10, 2013 02:58 PM (zOTsN)

118 but win what? A war doesn't have to end in regime change. A military strike could result in a change of the regime's behavior. ------- I think we're in agreement on that. Obama has not defined a goal that is attainable using the Unbelievably Small attack he claims he wants. If his goal is to eliminate Assad's chemical weapons usage - but not the rebels', for some reason - then what I've read suggests he'd need to do a lot more than lob a few cruise missiles in there. So I'm not defending McCain's desire to go to war, because I don't think it's in our interests to commit to a war in Syria, but I'm just defending the principle that you go into a war to win it. Frankly, if McCain & Obama really think that Syria needs to be eliminated as a threat, they should stop holding the reins on Israel and/or commit to using nuclear weapons. But they won't do that.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 02:59 PM (5H6zj)

119 Krauthammer slicing like a fucking hammer. "The future of the world depends on this very small strike." Hahahaha. Juan Williams tried to make sense of this but couldn't sell it. Is it true the Russians refused the deal they offered? I've seen it no where but here.

Posted by: Truck Monkey,Trying out for ESPN at September 10, 2013 02:59 PM (jucos)

120 They all be just a buncha SCFOAMF

Posted by: sharon at September 10, 2013 02:59 PM (k0bWj)

121 Kerry announced he will not allow Benghazi survivors to made available to Congress *** Which is what, it appears, Issa was responding to.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 02:59 PM (DmNpO)

122 Man this is depressing. Catch you all later.

Posted by: tasker at September 10, 2013 02:59 PM (r2PLg)

123 Oh, but Slogans are very much FOR the brain - Soviet-style slogans are the Left's version of thinking. New-speak, new-think, Forward with Slogans!

Posted by: ButwhaddaIknow? at September 10, 2013 03:00 PM (5aT64)

124

The Founding Fathers were clear that they did NOT want one fallible Man to be able to take this Nation to War...

Why does everyone in Washington think its OK that he can?

This is NOT a case of self defense.... but an outright act of war that is being talked about... this is the bombing of a UN Member State...

If Obama bombs without Congressional OK.... (and no, it won't be a few missiles lobbed in, look at the recent Air and Ship Movements)... someone needs to take this to court.

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:00 PM (lZBBB)

125 In a May 16, 2013 meeting between TFG and Erdogan, this was part of the joint press conference:

They agreed that Â“Assad needs to go,Â” said Mr. Obama, and that they will do everything possible to assist the opposition on the ground in Syria.

So how does that statement square with the current strategy? Face it, he makes mouth noises and no one holds him to any of it, including himself.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 03:01 PM (ccXZP)

126 Ace: "Not only is it false, but worse yet, people know it's false. We see through it. It's silly."

Is this true? Really? Sure, morons and those who might traffic here know this, but do we as a people view things this way? We incessantly install and incumbetize (good word, eh?) these people who play this game and then voters, when interviewed on the street, generally cannot name their own representatives.

So, yeah, we bitch and moan about the games, misrepresentations, and lies that go on, but "we" fall for it. Turns out politicians are exceedingly professional about this charade. It's like they're the brain surgeons of controlling herds.

The body politick just asks for more... and it never hurts to have some Brawndo thrown in.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 10, 2013 03:01 PM (eHIJJ)

127 although starting that war in the first place is a questionable decision in hindsight. Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 06:51 PM (YNK3y) So was every battle fought in WW2 on Yada Yada Yada. Ultimately there is no right or wrong, just victory or defeat

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 03:01 PM (9Xc5j)

128 >If Obama bombs without Congressional OK.... (and no, it won't be a few missiles lobbed in, look at the recent Air and Ship Movements)... someone needs to take this to court.

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 07:00 PM (lZBBB)

we can't- he's part black

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 03:02 PM (8sCoq)

129 Does every attack -- not a war, but an attack; and history is loaded with punitive attacks; the Punitive Expedition of 1908 or so taught Santa Ana and Mexico a lesson -- have to be with the goal of regime change and rebuilding? Who are we to punish anyone? Part of this is due to our own success. When we were a nobody agrarian nation, we could do punitive military action because, hell, they could do it to us. Now we're the 6'5" 200# sixth grader. And he's got to sit and take it when the kids pick on him.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 10, 2013 03:02 PM (T0NGe)

130 >>we can't- he's part black And he cured polio.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (5H6zj)

131 Report: While Obama Was Campaigning For Re-Election On Defeating Al-Qaeda He Was Being Told Terror Group Was Rapidly Growing In StrengthÂ… (Gasp!) Obama wasnÂ’t being truthful with us? Weasel Zippers

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (9Xc5j)

132 Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 07:01 PM (ccXZP) What, he actually said that? Well...okay then. ?????

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (YNK3y)

133 Also, it's important to remember -- we are *already* at war with Syria. And have been for a while. US taxpayers are, right now, funding the Syrian rebels. And training them, and arming them. We are debating whether to start bombing them directly instead of through proxies. The war started long ago. Without any vote. Without any debate. And without the awareness of most Americans.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (ZPrif)

134 People can disregard the importance of an alliance all they want but Clinton at least had a coalition. Obama has Obama and nobody else. I absolutely demand an international coalition when it comes to enforcing "international norms" such as a prohibition on WMDs. I am not going to send Americans to war so that Europeans can do a little moral preening.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (T0NGe)

135 "...slogans are for bumpers, not for brains."

Isn't that a slogan?

Posted by: Demosthenes at September 10, 2013 03:03 PM (c5AtG)

136

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 06:49 PM (5H6zj)

Awwww .... come on.... Obama's wars always have a clear goal...

In Libya? it was War for FRENCH and BRITISH oil...

In Syria? its War for a Saudi Pipeline...

ohhhh.... you mean OUR goal.... /facepalm

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:04 PM (lZBBB)

137 I mean, in this case, anything short of regime change is kind of pointless.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 06:54 PM (YNK3y)

And everything that accomplishes regime change stirs up a hornet nest that we don't want.

Thank you LIVs for electing this nincompoop.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 10, 2013 03:05 PM (oY6Yp)

138 If we really want to start bending nations like Syria to our will, we need to end the ban on assassination and starting threatening the dictators' individual lives.

I fully support a ban on secret assassination of foreign leaders. But as a publicly declared Congressionally-approved way to strike at nations like Syria, it could be useful, and certainly more humane than killing some random Syrian soldiers.

Posted by: sandy burger at September 10, 2013 03:05 PM (4dy3y)

139 130 >>we can't- he's part black And he cured polio. Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 07:03 PM (5H6zj) & rumor has it he hails from Peruvia, home of the micromanaged & land of the kaboom

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at September 10, 2013 03:05 PM (HVff2)

140 The entire debate about whether to start a War With Syria is a joke. The question is whether to escalate the war. The war's been going on a long time now.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 03:05 PM (ZPrif)

141 135 "...slogans are for bumpers, not for brains." Isn't that a slogan? Posted by: Demosthenes at September 10, 2013 07:03 PM (c5AtG) Someone should stick it on a bumper sticker.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 10, 2013 03:06 PM (IYB4D)

142 134 People can disregard the importance of an alliance all they want but Clinton at least had a coalition. Obama has Obama and nobody else. --- I absolutely demand an international coalition when it comes to enforcing "international norms" such as a prohibition on WMDs. ---- Completely agree with both of you.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 03:06 PM (5H6zj)

143

we can't- he's part black

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 07:02 PM (8sCoq)

Can we sue his White Half then?

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:06 PM (lZBBB)

144 How many hundreds of millions, or even billions, have already been spent funding, arming, and training the Syrian rebels?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 03:06 PM (ZPrif)

145 Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 07:01 PM (9Xc5j) In hindsight, we just didn't have enough troops to achieve victory in both countries at the same time. There wasn't really any way to know that in 2003, but that's the way it turned out.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 03:07 PM (YNK3y)

146 How many hundreds of millions, or even billions, have already been spent funding, arming, and training the Syrian rebels? *** You mean, the freedom fighters?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:08 PM (DmNpO)

147 142 134 People can disregard the importance of an alliance all they want but Clinton at least had a coalition. Obama has Obama and nobody else. --- I absolutely demand an international coalition when it comes to enforcing "international norms" such as a prohibition on WMDs. ---- Completely agree with both of you. Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 07:06 PM (5H6zj) I should add that if it's about defending vital US national interests, a coalition is not necessary.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 10, 2013 03:08 PM (T0NGe)

148 Posted by: Eton Cox at September 10, 2013 06:48 PM (q177U) See 91.

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:08 PM (XdnQT)

149 This is holdover rationalization from the Bush years and really sunk Republicans in 2008 and even carried over to weakness in 2010 (Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell used this as their foreign policy stance). Even Mitt Romney would dip into this sort of logic at times. It maybe worked for a few years, but it's way, way, way past time to be using this sort of thinking.

Posted by: JonathanEllis at September 10, 2013 03:08 PM (BdzEV)

150 138 If we really want to start bending nations like Syria to our will, we need to end the ban on assassination and starting threatening the dictators' individual lives. I fully support a ban on secret assassination of foreign leaders. But as a publicly declared Congressionally-approved way to strike at nations like Syria, it could be useful, and certainly more humane than killing some random Syrian soldiers. Posted by: sandy burger at September 10, 2013 07:05 PM (4dy3y) I don't. If we started doing that the dictators would live to be 105 and be in power for 60 years. See Castro, Fidel.

Posted by: Buzzion at September 10, 2013 03:08 PM (IYB4D)

151 132 Yoshi,

Here's a link to The Globe and Mail article quoting him:

http://tinyurl.com/pglc3rg

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 03:09 PM (ccXZP)

152 You mean, the freedom fighters?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:08 PM (DmNpO)

Yup.... they are just like Fire Fighters fight AGIANST Fire.... in the same way they ARE Freedom Fighters...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:09 PM (lZBBB)

153 In hindsight, we just didn't have enough troops to achieve victory in both countries at the same time. There wasn't really any way to know that in 2003, but that's the way it turned out. **** Thank God we've never before had to fight a war on multiple fronts/

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:09 PM (DmNpO)

154

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 10, 2013 07:01 PM (eHIJJ)

Yes, 'incumbetize' is a good word. It is an excellent word: mnemonic, forceful, and to the point. It also explains my former Senator Dick Lugar to a T, and explains why I voted against him in the primary even though I knew Mourdock was a weak candidate not ready for the big leagues: Dick Lugar had become incumbetized. I really like your new word. I intend to use it in sentences whenever the opportunities present themselves. And no, I'm not being snarky or facetious.

Incumbetize.

Posted by: troyriser at September 10, 2013 03:09 PM (2jF2B)

155 Okay. Now I'm giggling thinking of Michael Caine in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels running the scam about the freedom fighters.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:10 PM (DmNpO)

156 144 >> How many hundreds of millions, or even billions, have already been spent funding, arming, and training the Syrian rebels?

Flatbush, yesterday I saw a figure quoted of just over one billion.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 03:10 PM (ccXZP)

157 McConnell is so detached from the base. Kind of like me and this blog. Thanks Maetenloch!

Posted by: FUBAR at September 10, 2013 03:11 PM (Cs2tJ)

158 You mean, the freedom fighters? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:08 PM (DmNpO) Yes, they fight for the freedom to impose sharia on all non-believers and to kill infidels (and non-conforming muz) as "necessary"!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:11 PM (XdnQT)

159 I fully support a ban on secret assassination of foreign leaders. But as a publicly declared Congressionally-approved way to strike at nations like Syria, it could be useful, and certainly more humane than killing some random Syrian soldiers.

Posted by: sandy burger at September 10, 2013 07:05 PM (4dy3y)

Public assassination isn't much better an idea. At the very least, it's not in the Congress critters' self-interest.

If a foreign nation's leaders are fair military targets - then so is the US's leaders - AKA Congress.

We might get away with it with our current technological lead, but it sets a precedent for another time when that may no longer hold true.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 10, 2013 03:11 PM (v3pYe)

160 I should add that if it's about defending vital US national interests, a coalition is not necessary. -- Agree. Look, if the Israelis told the world that they have determined an Assad-led Syria is an imminent threat, I would support a joint U.S.-Israeli effort. But the goal would have to be conquest. Or a glass parking lot.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 03:11 PM (5H6zj)

161 In hindsight, we just didn't have enough troops to achieve victory in both countries at the same time. There wasn't really any way to know that in 2003, but that's the way it turned out. Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 07:07 PM (YNK3y) Actually i disagree with that somewhat. In Iraq i would have gone in heavy, very heavy, and also kept Saddams Army intact for the most part. And in Afghanistan I would have gone in on the ground very light and stayed that way, but heavy from the air when needed. But then got out fast with the implied message that we will go back in of the Taliban do not control Al Quada. We should NEVER have gone heavy into Afghanistan. But again hindsight is 20-20

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 03:12 PM (9Xc5j)

162 Incumbetize.

Posted by: troyriser at September 10, 2013 07:09 PM (2jF2B)

LOL... theres a Hypnotist, who uses a Dummy at the Colorado Ren Faire... the Dummy is named Bob.... so when they are hypnotized.... they are

Bobmatized.... and become Bob Zombies...

Soooo Incumbetized Washingtonians are Incumbent Zombies?

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:12 PM (lZBBB)

163

128 > If Obama bombs without Congressional OK.... (and no,
it won't be a few missiles lobbed in, look at the recent Air and Ship
Movements)... someone needs to take this to court.

we can't- he's part black

You misspelled "we don't have standing".

Posted by: Anachronda at September 10, 2013 03:12 PM (FzhYM)

164 Shep Smith is suck a prick.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 10, 2013 03:12 PM (ZPrif)

165 Darrell Issa ‏@DarrellIssa 14s The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 06:30 PM (DmNpO) September 24? I will believe it when I see them. I hope Issa means this.

Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 03:12 PM (z4WKX)

166 Thank God we've never before had to fight a war on multiple fronts/ Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:09 PM (DmNpO) I don't really see the point of this snark. Unless you're arguing we needed to conduct mass bombing runs on civilian centers, or that the Iraqi attitude toward defeat is the same as the Japanese, or that we should have invaded Pakistan and Iran or at least bombed them to the Stone Age as we threatened. Without at least one of those changes in policy there was really no way to do much better than we did.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 03:13 PM (YNK3y)

167 So I did a quick look and McCain *did* want HW Bush to oust Saddam. And I kind of think he was right. I mean, that war was justified. He'd invaded an allied country without provocation. IIRC Bush's rationale for pulling out and leaving much of Saddam's stuff intact was so Iraq could hold off Iran, but my recollection he wound up using his helicopters to kill his own people. So we probably should've just finished the job.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 03:14 PM (5H6zj)

168

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 07:11 PM (5H6zj)

And we spend how many American lives... and borrow how much money from China... for how many years... to control another worthless patch of desert where everyone hates us?

Sorry... I think I'd pass on that one...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:14 PM (lZBBB)

169 She must be a democrat: http://goo.gl/Wdmg27 Evil, psycho woman.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman at September 10, 2013 03:15 PM (WdWRd)

170 Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 07:12 PM (z4WKX) Sorry, my friend, Issa (like all his Republican ilk) is not even trying to be full of sound and fury, yet he still signifies nothing!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:15 PM (XdnQT)

171 Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 07:12 PM (9Xc5j) Hmm, I didn't think about that. Changing the our goals would have made a pretty big difference. Of course, that was never on the table.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 03:15 PM (YNK3y)

172 And we spend how many American lives... and borrow how much money from China... for how many years... to control another worthless patch of desert where everyone hates us? ---- If our only solid ally in the region's existence is at stake, I'd support it. And glass parking lots are easy to control.

Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 03:17 PM (5H6zj)

173 An adult, honest conversation with an electorate that elected TFG not once, but twice?

Good luck with that.

Posted by: butch at September 10, 2013 03:17 PM (EV3Uf)

174 20 Whoa! Darrell Issa ‏@DarrellIssa 14s The @StateDept has until Sept 24 to make #Benghazi survivors available otherwise subpoenas will be issued #PJNet Sorry NDH Many of us have grown weary of Issa's posturing. Not much different than the Chisen One. Buncha blather about nothing.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at September 10, 2013 03:17 PM (/djtm)

175 Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 07:15 PM (YNK3y) The goals you set heavily influence the actual end results!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:17 PM (XdnQT)

176 Man, they must be handing out advil in DC by the boatload. Tomorrow they're hosting bikers and the million muslim march.

Posted by: ..... at September 10, 2013 03:18 PM (/b8+5)

177

You misspelled "we don't have standing".

Posted by: Anachronda at September 10, 2013 07:12 PM (FzhYM)

Isn't it interesting that the Fed Government (through the courts) made rules (not law) that made it so we can't hold the Fed Government Accountable for following their own rules?

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:18 PM (lZBBB)

178 Peggy Noonan actually makes a lot of sense in her article in the WSJ.

http://tinyurl.com/ph4tjwq

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 10, 2013 03:18 PM (gqgiP)

179 160 >> ...But the goal would have to be conquest. Or a glass parking lot.

Face it y-not, the US will never be the first (again) to use nukes on civilians. I highly doubt that any US leader would even agree to use a nuclear bunker buster on Iran's Qom complex.

It's just not going to happen. It's a fantasy.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 03:18 PM (ccXZP)

180 Posted by: Y-not at September 10, 2013 07:17 PM (5H6zj) You may think we have a solid ally in the area, but Obumbles, Kerry, and ValJar don't!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:19 PM (XdnQT)

181 >Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 07:12 PM (lZBBB)

dude you went to a renaissance fair?

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 03:19 PM (8sCoq)

182 Man, they must be handing out advil in DC by the boatload. Tomorrow they're hosting bikers and the million muslim march.

I'm counting on epic beat downs.

Posted by: FUBAR at September 10, 2013 03:19 PM (Cs2tJ)

183 I don't really see the point of this snark. Unless you're arguing we needed to conduct mass bombing runs on civilian centers, or that the Iraqi attitude toward defeat is the same as the Japanese, or that we should have invaded Pakistan and Iran or at least bombed them to the Stone Age as we threatened. Without at least one of those changes in policy there was really no way to do much better than we did. **** You said we did not have enough troops. I pointed out, half-assedly, that we have, in the past, had the necessary military to respond to multiple threats.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:19 PM (DmNpO)

184 Place you bets, place your bets, kerry versus issa, place your bets.

Posted by: ..... at September 10, 2013 03:20 PM (/b8+5)

185 "Not only is it false, but worse yet, people know it's false. We see through it. It's silly."

Ace,

If this were true, then Obama would not have won a second term, let alone a first term.

America has the attention span of an amoeba, and for some reason this debacle caught their attention.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 10, 2013 03:20 PM (gqgiP)

186 Isn't it interesting that the Fed Government (through the courts) made rules (not law) that made it so we can't hold the Fed Government Accountable for following their own rules? Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 07:18 PM (lZBBB) Ah yes, the soft tyranny of absolute tyranny!

Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 03:21 PM (XdnQT)

187 What time is this "address"?

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at September 10, 2013 03:22 PM (9+ccr)

188 Posted by: Hrothgar at September 10, 2013 07:15 PM (XdnQT) Most of the republicans in congress are pussies and donÂ’t do anything productive. Today they are planning a special resolution to defund Obamacare, itÂ’s alone, and not tied to the CR. Of course the senate is going to vote against it! I think that genius Cantor had that idea.

Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 03:22 PM (z4WKX)

189 What time is this "address"? *** I think it's at 9

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:22 PM (DmNpO)

190 BTW the 9/11 DC Bikers now have the DC cops' cooperation

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 03:23 PM (8sCoq)

191 181 >Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 07:12 PM (lZBBB) dude you went to a renaissance fair? Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 07:19 PM (8sCoq) Girls with big boobs dressed up as serving wenches!

Posted by: EC at September 10, 2013 03:23 PM (doBIb)

192 I wish we would stop the "killed own people" phrase/theme. We had a little civil war ourselves. If Syria had attacked another nation with wmd would that have been less of a provocation? Saddam gassed the kurds who you can argue weren't "his people". Saddam also invaded another country and we used that as a reason for Gulf War I.

Posted by: SamIam at September 10, 2013 03:23 PM (HMI9a)

193 I think it's at 9 Thanks... Not that I'll watch it but I'll come here and get others reactions...

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at September 10, 2013 03:23 PM (9+ccr)

194 BTW the 9/11 DC Bikers now have the DC cops' cooperation *** I love that they refused to be deterred.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:23 PM (DmNpO)

195 I pointed out, half-assedly, that we have, in the past, had the necessary military to respond to multiple threats. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:19 PM (DmNpO) Our doctrine used to be to fight 2 wars simultaniously, they it morphed to fighting one War and a holding pattern in the second, Now?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (9Xc5j)

196

dude you went to a renaissance fair?

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 07:19 PM (8sCoq)

I do Elizabethan Fencing... so yeah....

Besides... its really fun to laugh at all the guys dressed up like Pirates... who don't know how to use a sword AND I can ask my favorite question of...

Have YOU ever taken over a Merchant ship? Because I have.... in REAL Life.... LOL

(besides.... Swords, booze, and girls with Cleavage, whats not to like.... LOL)

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (lZBBB)

197

Thanks, Ace...for helping to keep me sane.

So much hooey going on, it's like we are adrift in a sea of it.

The Sea of Hooey.

We're there.

Posted by: wheatie at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (LMuJE)

198 >I love that they refused to be deterred.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:23 PM (DmNpO)

they can be ornery when challenged

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (8sCoq)

199 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:19 PM (DmNpO) Well, not to beat you or another horse too much, but we still do. Just not with one hand tied behind our back.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (YNK3y)

200

at this point there is only two safe bets:

1 ace will never understand teh suck that was the Thompson Twins

2 Da BEARS will win it all!!!

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (1MCcX)

201

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 07:24 PM (9Xc5j)

Now??? Its a Bitch Slap and call it a day?

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 10, 2013 03:24 PM (lZBBB)

202 Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 07:24 PM (9Xc5j)

One small war and a slap fight.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 10, 2013 03:25 PM (gqgiP)

203 Thanks... Not that I'll watch it but I'll come here and get others reactions... **** It will be a speech for the ages. No matter what he says, we will know, in real-time, that we are watching our POTUS lie through his teeth and will know that all the world knows it too.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:25 PM (DmNpO)

204 they can be ornery when challenged

Ornery is good.

Posted by: FUBAR at September 10, 2013 03:25 PM (Cs2tJ)

205

Hmmm what to watch on TV tonight?

President Side Show Bob or US Men's Soccer vs Mexico?

Going to be a lot of bad acting either way.

Posted by: simplemind at September 10, 2013 03:26 PM (BmWNr)

206 It will be a speech for the ages. No matter what he says, we will know, in real-time, that we are watching our POTUS lie through his teeth and will know that all the world knows it too. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 07:25 PM (DmNpO) Unless he says:" Hey I have no idea what I am doing, but hell, you assholes elected me so suffer. Now I got to get to bed early since I have a 6 AM Tee Off tomorrow"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 10, 2013 03:26 PM (9Xc5j)

207

205 ink master

tatu baby is hot

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 10, 2013 03:27 PM (1MCcX)

208 Separated at birth.
http://tinyurl.com/ntbbsuk

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at September 10, 2013 03:27 PM (74gkr)

209 Unless he says:" Hey I have no idea what I am doing, but hell, you assholes elected me so suffer. Now I got to get to bed early since I have a 6 AM Tee Off tomorrow" *** That kind of honesty has never before been witnessed in DC.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 10, 2013 03:27 PM (DmNpO)

210 we will know, in real-time, that we are watching our POTUS lie through his teeth and will know that all the world knows it too. Minus 100 or so million low information US voters. Oh yeah. And the US press.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at September 10, 2013 03:28 PM (/djtm)

211 #188 Levin is going ballistic on Cantor and Boehner and will have Mike Lee on shortly to explain how those two cocksuckers are about to give Reid everything he wants on funding FockerCare.

Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPhone at September 10, 2013 03:28 PM (uizr/)

212 OT

What time do the polls close in Colorado?

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at September 10, 2013 03:29 PM (MnSla)

213 Video: Help Kickstart World War III http://youtu.be/z-sdO6pwVHQ

Posted by: BornLib at September 10, 2013 03:30 PM (zpNwC)

214 You mean like 'Let Allah sort it out' sometimes slogans mean something, but Senator Splunge is utterly unmemorable,

Posted by: Jeffrey Pelt at September 10, 2013 03:31 PM (Jsiw/)

215 209 >> That kind of honesty has never before been witnessed in DC.

NDH, remember his expressed 'wish' that he could go the full Bulworth?

Apparently you never go the full Bulworth.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 10, 2013 03:31 PM (ccXZP)

216 Cantor. Cocksucker. Another fake vote.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at September 10, 2013 03:32 PM (mSF1z)

217 troyriser@154,

Thank you and wear it out if you like. Seemed apropos and nothing else popped into my head faster.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 10, 2013 03:32 PM (eHIJJ)

218 NDH, remember his expressed 'wish' that he could go the full Bulworth? Apparently you never go the full Bulworth. It would just be more of the same from his "You Didn't Build That" speech. It would sound just like a Cambridge Professor of Humanities. It would not change a single bit of his image.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 10, 2013 03:34 PM (yETln)

219 Peggy Nonnan is over paid, as is George Will, and David Brooks.

Who wants pie? and ice cream. Ooops sorry, no ice cream so topping?
It's pumpkin...oops, sorry, no topping...

so who want's pumpkin pie, it's that time of year.
Don't worry about the other stuff, it will be over with in a few years.

Would you rather have cheesecake?

Posted by: Pie Man at September 10, 2013 03:36 PM (wE9RS)

220 "McConnell is a phony, he pretends to be a conservative, but makes deals with Biden & Reid behind closed doors. I hope he loses his reelection. I don't care if a dem takes his place, he's got to go."

You might get that wish.

I somehow ended up on the blast e-mailings from EMILY's List.

They are extremely het up over what they see as an opportunity to take out Mitch using Alison Grimes as the lever. They see it as one of their few bright opportunities in the next Senate election cycle, and they're turning the fundraising pitch dial up to eleven.

Mitch has a shit-ton of money, but he's also got high negatives, and he's got a history of getting re-elected in photo finishes. Grimes is going to be a much tougher opponent than Puffy Face Judd would have been.

Posted by: torquewrench at September 10, 2013 03:37 PM (gqT4g)

221 Obama didn't say "Go the full Bulworth." He mumbled the last word and the reporters misheard him. In reality, he said "Go the full bullshit." Which he truly seems to have done.

Posted by: zombie at September 10, 2013 03:38 PM (TZ7GJ)

222

"the Punitive Expedition of 1908 or so taught Santa Ana and Mexico a lesson"

and by God I'm gonna teach Mexico another lesson tonight

Posted by: Landon Donovan at September 10, 2013 03:39 PM (BmWNr)

223 Mitch has a shit-ton of money, but he's also got high negatives, and he's got a history of getting re-elected in photo finishes. Grimes is going to be a much tougher opponent than Puffy Face Judd would have been. Posted by: torquewrench at September 10, 2013 07:37 PM (gqT4g) Some Hollywood fool vowed to give huge amounts of money and fundraisers for Grimes last week. I couldnÂ’t remember her name. I hope Bevin sneaks in instead.

Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 03:43 PM (z4WKX)

224 Administration officials clarified that Obama is not canceling the congressional votes

Obama can do that? Cancel congressional votes? (according to an unnamed administration official who did not want to be associated with that claim but felt it was important that the American People knew what the administration was thinking)..but wasn't there news earlier that Harry Reid (blessed protector of young boys) had something...something..stopped the vote in the senate because something something . .

http://preview.tinyurl.com/qeng8yw

Well, it makes sense, take a little pause that refreshes. Give John Kerry, Vietnam War Veteran and experienced peace negotiator, time to negotiate peace with Russia. But apparently the war hawks in congress are going to vote for war anyway to protect our credit rating or something .

Posted by: Pie Man at September 10, 2013 03:44 PM (wE9RS)

225 Levin is going ballistic on Cantor and Boehner and will have Mike Lee on shortly to explain how those two cocksuckers are about to give Reid everything he wants on funding FockerCare. Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPhone at September 10, 2013 07:28 PM (uizr/) I will put the radio on at 8. I usually listen to Levin live online but IÂ’m not today. He is on local radio show from 7 to 10. Watch them interrupt him for The JEF. Thanks. I love it when Levin goes off about those two.

Posted by: CarolT at September 10, 2013 03:48 PM (z4WKX)

226 So Obama's plan can be as ethereal as his college transcripts, existing only in the dreams of magic unicorns, but McConnell must be specific in opposing it?

I wish all the whiners would go ahead and start their loser third party. They may kick some elections to Democrats, but it would save the rest of us from listening to your incessant whining like a room full of spoiled yuppie bitches with permanent PMS.

Posted by: Vlad at September 10, 2013 03:51 PM (473jB)

227 Remind me again why we think making this Cretin MAJORITY leader will change one thing?

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at September 10, 2013 04:02 PM (yL0v8)

228 #226 It should be on at 8:30 on your station.

Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPhone at September 10, 2013 04:07 PM (uizr/)

229 the Punitive Expedition of 1908 or so taught Santa Ana and Mexico a lesson --

umm,,,,Santa Ana?

Pancho Villa?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at September 10, 2013 04:11 PM (qvify)

230

"Slogans are for bumpers not for brains."

That's kind of a contradictory statement. Like "There are no absolutes"

Posted by: Bill Gates looking at the Rammifications of the Gramschian March through the institutions at September 10, 2013 04:29 PM (dSE0q)

231 Ace builds his case on THIS: "The Free Syrian Army is increasing dominated by Al Qaeda." Now, how the FUCK would Ace know THAT? Answer: He doesn't. See, it's like a whole lot of shit Ace just says when he's 'building a case': basically indistinguishable from the Bush administration's often 'fixing the facts around the policy'.

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at September 10, 2013 04:38 PM (w45V0)

232 "But [McCain's] always the guy pushing the idea that we must have Boots on the Ground if we're going to take any military action at all."

Don't much care for the crazy old fart, but he's kinda right - if you're contemplating military action you had damned well better be prepared for the eventuality of having to put some boots on the ground. If you're plan doesn't go there, you're not planning, you're wishing. You're Hope 'n Changey-ing.

And, no - I still don't like McCain.

Posted by: No Freakin' Way at September 10, 2013 04:38 PM (rz0yi)

233 so shoot me.
Posted by: willow at September 10, 2013 06:34 PM (nqBYe)

***********
BANG!

Posted by: No Freakin' Way at September 10, 2013 04:41 PM (rz0yi)

234 Oh great, the GOP is now home to Code Stupid...

Any stupid thing you can do, we can do stupider...

Posted by: Seipherd at September 10, 2013 10:11 PM (kxy9p)

235 thanks Ace, I was wondering when people would begin to notice that the GOP leadership is, yet again, clearly at odds with the base.

Posted by: Shoey at September 11, 2013 08:37 AM (jdOk/)

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