1 first?

2 Fuck Iraq.  Our expectations that it would rise to anything more than urban warlordism were naive.

3 And Iraq was unworthy of the men and women who sacrificed for it.

4 Stories you NEVER hear from the MFM.  In fact, since the Obamanites took over you hear NOTHING about Iraq or Afghanistan.


If Bush had any balls he would have brought every troop we have home from both of those shit holes before Obama took office.


He is using their lives as a political tool.

5 Of course the lib-lefty MSNBC crowd will continue to villify and never give credit where it is due.

Another point related to this is why the hell hasn't Hollywood taken any of these stories from Iraq or Afghanistan and made a movie? There are hundreds of them.

Of course, we continue to get the warfighters are evil sons of bitches, anti-war message movies (Zero Dark Thirty a surprising exception).

6 Iraq? Come now. Unless Hussein and Cankles can stand beside coffins for photo ops, it's no more important than the White House Easter Egg Roll. Less, actually. The Egg Roll is exercise, to fight the planetary threat of obesity.

7 God bless them.  And God damn the politicians who placed them in harm's way. 

8 I have to wonder how many of the chemical weapons being fired in Syria have "Made in Baghdad" stamped on them.  You know, the WMDs that never existed according to the left.  Despite their caterwauling over the years, I have never believed that the great work our servicemen did there was all based on a lie.

9 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

10 3 And Iraq was unworthy of the men and women who sacrificed for it.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 20, 2013 01:18 PM (8ZskC)

Not just Iraq...

11 In the very few interviews I happened to see of ZERO DARK THIRTY's stars, not one did I hear a kind word or appreciation for the real-life warriors serving our nation. Did anyone else hear diiferently; maybe I missed it?

12

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 20, 2013 01:17 PM (8ZskC)

 

Unfortunately some people will never consider what the world would be like if we had never gone into Iraq.   You can't prove the consequences of not doing something.   So there will always be those that say  Fuck  Iraq.  

13 In the very few interviews I happened to see of ZERO DARK THIRTY's stars Recall the furor over that movie was that some might infer the director approved of *gasp*... WATERBOARDING! There was a run on smelling salts.

14 #5  Yes.  And thanks to Kathryn Bigelow for showing the stark contrast between the heroes in the military and the gutless politicians whose  politically motivated decisions have caused so much bloodshed and loss. 

15 A friend's son is in Kuwait, awaiting transfer home after a tour in A-stan with the National Guard. Nephew is heading there in may as part of the Marine Reserves. The place will be on my mind every day for another year at least. Sick of that.

16 Go read the stories.  Appreciate the sacrifice and heroism.  And save the screaming for other threads.

17

All honor the these guys. The test of life is individual. It isn't their fault we, as a nation, are fucked up beyond all repair. They met their test with honor and valor.

 

18
Bumper Sticker:  I'd rather be waterboarded than aborted

19 Why do I suspect that the Easter Eggs are plastic eggs with an apple slice in it? Because that would be the dumbest thing ever, and thus, exactly what Moochie would insist upon.

20 re 5: Yahoo thinks this is important news, though:

An Iraq War veteran who joined the U.S. Army two days after 9/11 has written a powerful open letter to former President George W. Bush and ex-Vice President Dick Cheney accusing them of war crimes, "plunder" and "the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole."

21 You can't prove the consequences of not doing something. So there will always be those that say Fuck Iraq.


The military destruction of the existing regime was a worthy operation.  The nation-building aspect that followed was a waste of time, money and lives given the limited potential of the population to exploit the opportunity.

22 Why do I suspect that the Easter Eggs are plastic eggs with an apple slice in it? Because that would be the dumbest thing ever, and thus, exactly what Moochie would insist upon.

Each White House Memorial Easter Egg will contain a thumb drive filled with Obama speeches.

You're welcome, kids!

23

Nothing but respect and the highest admiration for the men and women who    have    served in Iraq    and Afghanistan.    God bless them for their service and heroism.

 

And since this is a thread for celebrating our armed services, I'm going to go back to the previous    thread    to continue swearing like a drunken sailor.

24

Related:  Yahoo feels it's necessary to headline a scathing open letter from an vet injured in Iraq to teh eevil Boooosh and his master Darth Cheney today.

 

 

25 Last I checked, when you start a war and lose that war, and sign a surrender agreement to abide by rules dictated to you by the victor of the war you started, and then never abide by the rules, you get your ass stomped. Not sure why that rule should have been waived for Iraq. Maybe a libtard can explain it, because here in the states, if I break a law, and then break probation, I'd get my ass handed to me.

26 The military destruction of the existing regime was a worthy operation. The nation-building aspect that followed was a waste of time, money and lives given the limited potential of the population to exploit the opportunity.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at March 20, 2013 01:23 PM (8ZskC)

 

Considering how shitty their chain of command was/is, they did amazing things.

27 Maybe a libtard can explain it, because here in the states, if I break a law, and then break probation, I'd get my ass handed to me. Rape someone, then youÂ’ll have CNN on your side.

28 Honor the heroes. Debate the wisdom of the war in another thread.

29

"The military destruction of the existing regime was a worthy operation. The nation-building aspect that followed was a waste of time, money and lives given the limited potential of the population to exploit the opportunity."

 

Yup.  Not every society on this planet has the same upside potential of Germany and Japan.  In fact, most are unfixable and  unworthy of our blood and treasure to rebuild.  Let 'em rot - they were going to rot anyway.

30 I think one thing we now know that we didn't before is that you can't impose civilization on people who don't want it.  Iraq and Afghanistan are the death knoll for nation building.  From now on, war is going to be nation destroying.

31 When Nixon was elected in 1968, the Democrats and media immediately turned Viet Nam into Nixon's quagmire. Politically a brilliant move. To this day people (not you...well, maybe some of you) associate Viet Nam with Richard Nixon, not Johnson (and Kennedy). We should've done the exact same thing on January 21, 2009. We should've made Afghanistan Obama's quagmire. Demanding timetables, tabulating costs, and never ever allowing a single casualty go unnoticed. Instead, on Jan 21, 2009, Afghanistan became the invisible war that poor Obama inherited from Bush. We suck at politicking.

32 P.S.  I see everybody's favorite Republicans, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, say we need to "take action " in Syria.  I guess we need to make the world safe for Islam.

33 29 "Not every society on this planet has the same upside potential of Germany and Japan."

Most people forget that Germany and Japan had successful modern societies, if somewhat feudal, monarchical, and militaristic, before they went batshit crazy in the 1930s and 1940s.

Point out that advanced society in Iraq or Afghanistan, for that matter

34

Clicked through on the story about "Killer Chick", the A-10 pilot.  There were pictures of the damage her plane took during the mission.  There  is no fucking way another type of plane could have sustained that much  damage and still been  able to fly 100 miles back to base.  What a pilot.

35 Shorter version: The Republicans should've immediately demanded full withdrawal from Afghsnistan as soon as Obama's term began. By 2012, it wouldve been a huge liability around Obama's neck. Instead, Afghanistan wasn't even an issue in 2012.

36 28 Honor the heroes. Debate the wisdom of the war in another thread. Posted by: joncelli at March 20, 2013 01:29 PM (RD7QR) Thank you.

37 Liberals pretend to support the troops, while calling them "baby murderers" and stone-cold killers.

38 I read that stuff and I will be sobbing at work. Maybe tonight.

39 I think Winston Churchill's quote applies to the American Serviceman in Iraq. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few". Let's hope the Iraqi's don't fuck up what these men and women have gifted them with.

40 We should've vehemently opposed action in Egypt and Libya, too. Instead, the Republicans approved Obama's meddling and warmongering.

41 Glad to see NCIS last night honoring our non-human heroes in combat - K9s.

42

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 20, 2013 01:22 PM (ZshNr)

 

The Guard, and Reserves, were supposed to be here, Guarding America...

 

That we have used them to occupy Foreign countries, without even a real decleration of War?  still astounds me....

43

Magnificent heroes.

 

"Where do we get such men?" - Rear Adm George Tarrant, The Bridges at Toko-Ri

44 There is no fucking way another type of plane could have sustained that much damage and still been able to fly 100 miles back to base. What a pilot. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 01:36 PM (CJjw5) What a pilot and what a plane.

45 Re the "Killer Chick" story, they definitely don't build the A-10 for looks, and thank God for that.

46 Clicked through on the story about "Killer Chick", the A-10 pilot. There were pictures of the damage her plane took during the mission. There is no fucking way another type of plane could have sustained that much damage and still been able to fly 100 miles back to base. What a pilot.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 01:36 PM (CJjw5)

 

But unmanned aircraft are the FUTURE, man.      Using   humans   in the cockpit is sooooo     stone age.

 

[/sarc]

47 Iraq was a mistake, based on (possibly deliberate) false intel info. Much of the info we relied on was from an Iraqi who finally admitted he made it all up in 2011. But British and American intel experts had good cause to question his reliability 10 years ago. But someone in the political elites or intel services in Britain and/or America wanted a war. Having dragged NATO with us all the way to Af-Pak, we ditched our war there, the real war over 9/11, and went Crusading for "democracy" in Iraq. Not that there was any indication that Iraqis then or now place such a high value on democracy or were really pining for it. And democracy isn't that popular in America where voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012, despite spending $6 billion in the 2012 election. So we were not actually "welcomed with open arms as liberators" if you recall how this war was sold to the public. Given our unbroken record of losing essentially every war since WW II and with generally poor results from any attempt at meddling, I just don't see how people can regard Iraq as some blazing success of the American way. In addition, this record of lost wars or wars with middling results (Korea) does nothing to create much respect or affection for America around the world. We are seen as violent and as meddlers. Not as the saviors of humanity as we like to imagine ourselves. We manage to make ourselves too often into Ugly Americans. If America were one of the stars of Survivor, we'd get voted off the island first. In many ways, we made things far worse in Iraq by installing a sharia constitution there, obliterating the rights widely given to Jews and Christians and other dissenters; in addition Iraq was far more laid back religiously than the Saudis or Iranians. Baghdad used to be the Las Vegas of the entire region because Saddam wasn't a Koran-thumper (even though he was quite brutal to dissenters or suspected subversives). Now we have tucked tail and run, have few basing rights there (having spent billions on those bases), didn't get the oil flowing (or bring it to market to drive prices down), and we have been instrumental in the decimation of the ancient Christian and Jewish communities in Iraq and across the region, well, the list just goes on and on. Then we get to the 4,500 soldiers whose lives were sacrificed there (3,500 in combat) and the many thousands more who are so grievously maimed that they will never leave a hospital again. Not to mention all the multiple amputees and the hardships they face. I'm grateful for their service but I think our troops were horribly misused. And it's about time we admitted it and repudiate the Iraq war. When we face the facts, maybe the voters will come one step closer to seeing that we are no longer the Party Of Bush. If we don't admit it and change, we will continue to leave a lot of votes on the table. And letting warmongers like McStain and Graham dominate the foreign policy discussion is the worst thing we can do as the public already thinks the GOP is a bunch of warmongers, just like McCain and Graham are. Romney didn't help much when he promised to subcontract our foreign policy to Israel and rattled sabers toward Iran in a number of speeches. So while we admire the dedication of our soldiers, maybe we should recognize when a war was unworthy of their sacrifices of life and limb. There is also the matter of $2 trillion we spent on the Iraq war ($1 trillion according to the Right, $3 trillion according to the Left). Our military and the Iraq war didn't cause our debt but it was significant contributor and leaves us with an economy too oriented toward continuous guns-and-butter warfare which creates a problem in and of itself in policy, politics and local economies, as is evident when we see when certain weapon systems get cancelled. Our military procurement system has been a scandal for decades and both parties are equally awful at managing the Pentagon. And the ones who pay the price most for this ongoing scandal are the soldiers we all claim to admire so much. Our admiration isn't that helpful to their needs for things as simple as adequate body armor or armor plates on their vehicles so they don't get pointlessly maimed or killed by some jihadi with an IED. We Republicans and conservatives still won't talk honestly about these wars. And it will be hard to win elections if we don't. Well, I suppose I'll get banned from AoS now. But fire away.

48

Posted by: Jaws at March 20, 2013 01:30 PM (4I3Uo)

 

In both Germany, and Japan.... we flat out outlawed the philisophical cause of the War.... ie... Nazism, and Shintoism.

 

In Iraq, and Afaganistan, we did not outlaw Islam...

 

That is why we will fail.... Democracies cannot stay at war for long periods... historicly they are good for about 4 years of war, then they weary of the cost.  We have now been at war for more than 10.... and did not combat the root cause of the conflict.

49 On the AR15 forum they are discussing Mr. Young's emotional and whiny little screed.  They are not impressed.
http://tinyurl.com/d9e2ldv

50

As scary as it is to say, the country that nurtured Nazism, a genocidal philosophy, and the brutal military regime of Japan were still more highly evolved than any Islamic country. 

51 "Re the "Killer Chick" story, they definitely don't build the A-10 for looks, and thank God for that."

Posted by: Ian S. at March 20, 2013 01:44 PM (B/VB5)
=============

Sadly, they don't build them at all anymore...

52 :::But unmanned aircraft are the FUTURE, man. Using humans in the cockpit is sooooo stone age. :::: I dare you to start that shit with me. In a bikini. In a baby pool filled with Jello.

53

After a roadside bomb disrupted their routine patrol in Fallujah, an Iraqi woman flagged the group, repeating over and over, “Baby. Baby sick.” The girl, Mariam, was born with her bladder outside her body.

 

Obama would have let the baby die in a garbage pail.

 

Harry Reid would molest it.

 

Our soldiers save lives.

54 It is a good thing FDR had our WWII troops learn sensitivity to our enemies even before we won  the war. If he'd failed to suck German and Japanese dicks, they might have resisted more.

55 Ace up

56 Uhm no.  Shintoism is not outlawed in Japan.  It is still practiced along with various denominations of Christianity and Buddhism.

57

Can I get a witness??!! 

 

A poll released Tuesday by the Club for Growth and the Senate Conservatives Fund finds that our friend Rep. Tom Cotton leads Senator Mark Pryor by 8 points in a projected 2014 contest for the PryorÂ’s Arkansas Senate seat. The poll also finds that Pryor is viewed favorably by only 36 percent of Arkansas voters."

 

You heard it here first folks.  You can be cool.  And as far as the censorship of unbroken text or whatever, that is very annoying.

 

Marco Rubio Tom Cotton 2016!!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!

58 But unmanned aircraft are the FUTURE, man. Using humans in the cockpit is sooooo stone age.

[/sarc]

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at March 20, 2013 01:45 PM (4df7R)

 

Battleships will always rule the seas.

59 I read the stories.  Damn this pollen in  my eyes, gets blurry.

60 God bless those who served and are serving for their service and sacrifice.

61 56 Uhm no. Shintoism is not outlawed in Japan. It is still practiced along with various denominations of Christianity and Buddhism.  
 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 20, 2013 01:51 PM (tkWnt)

 

But they forced the emporer to say he was not Divine... which broke the chain...

62 I dare you to start that shit with me. In a bikini. In a baby pool filled with Jello. Tease.

63 It makes me sick how our military is now being treated like a political bouncing ball. We'll need them when we need them is the progressive view. Let's let the international community protect us all. A current example of placing ideology over national safety is the North Korea/missile defense issue in Alaska, etc. From IBD on obama's flip-flop: The announcement, which coincides with the 30th anniversary of President Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative speech, comes as Adm. James Winnefeld, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at the Pentagon on Friday that North Korea's new, road-mobile KN-08 ICBM has emerged as a threat "a little bit faster than we expected." This raises our concerns regarding administration assurances about the pace of Iran's nuclear and missile programs, which have included cooperation with and technical aid from North Korea. Iran's Shahab missiles are really Tehran's version of the North Korean Nodong missile. Working with North Korea, Iran developed the Shahab-3 missile that can deliver a one-ton payload over a distance of 1,000 miles and is developing missiles that can target Europe and the U.S. — as well as Israel. bless my family and the rest of those that have/do serve

64 For more in this vein, I heartily recommend Bill Ardolino's book, "Fallujah Awakens: Marines, Sheikhs, and the Battle Against al Qaeda."  He's been to Iraq and A-stan several times now.

Some of you also might remember Bill from the RatherGate story.  He was one of the few of us morons to take the initiative to find a typography expert and get his opinion.

He's also my erstwhile co-blogger, but try to forgive him.

65 If you had said the constitution that MacArthur and his experts had written for Japan had removed the divinity of the Emperor I would not be correcting you for painting with too broad a brush.

66

 My friend was deployed twice, to Iraq and Kuwait. I never asked about his activity there. But he gave a hint the other day and the enormity of his sacrifice and that of those who served hit me. They cannot unsee what has been seen; they cannot undo what has been done. This is the burden they carry until they die.

 

I can only speak for myself, the way I've dealt with our engagement there is to go in a sort of denial. The families of the wounded and the fallen do not share that luxury.

67 And no senator, particularly warrior McCain and warrior Graham, has called out Reid for his noxious emissions. 

68 Sgt. Jake Demand KIA in Mosul September 2004. Fought exposed on the ramp of a Stryker until everyone else could get back in. Emptied eight magazines. Hit 18 times. Left behind a daughter and two little boys. RIP Jake.

69

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 20, 2013 01:57 PM (tkWnt)

 

sorry for not writing a disertation.... Key point is that we meddled in the philisophical structures that led to War....

 

And put in place an American style Bill of Rights...

 

Neither of which were done in Afganistan, or Iraq...

70 Fuck Iraq.

No FUCK YOU for not getting the point.

71

Hats off to all of these heros who went in harms way. Hats off to my son who went twice and came home with a broken body but not a broken spirit.

 

72

"In both Germany, and Japan.... we flat out outlawed the philisophical cause of the War.... ie... Nazism, and Shintoism.

In Iraq, and Afaganistan, we did not outlaw Islam...

That is why we will fail.... "

 

True enough.  We did go through the motions of "de-Baathifying" the government though - a halfassed, PC effort if there ever was one.  Oddly enough, Our Betters often run their mouths about  DeBaathification  being a giant mistake because it took "capable" people out of positions of power.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.  But these are also the same blowhards that pushed "You break it / You bought it" so what do you expect?

 

The US government gave up on fighting to win anything ever again  the instant the ink dried on the surrender instrument in Tokyo Bay.

73 The legacy of the war?? 50% of the Iraqi christians forced to flee. The new regime we put in is best friends with Iran. 5000 dead 30,000 wounded 200 waiting on facial transplants and 500 waiting for genital reconstruction. 40% leaving now claiming a disability. maybe 50 TRILLION in total costs over the next 50 years (remember that we are still paying off the last 2 dependents of civil war vets) there is a valid reason why NEITHER political party wants to bring that hot mess up. Really how many think that the preemptive attack on Iraq was a good idea. Or even an OK idea? How many think that giving George TEnnent the highest US civilian award for cooking the intelligence for Cheney was a good idea? The Iraq bubble popped 10 years ago.

74

nic

and this little girl grew up and raised 4 jihadis

75 I remember OIF 1. I was there as part of the 4th Infantry Division. It is to early for history to tell us if it was right or wrong, good or bad. In other words, I have no problem tacking my Ranger Tab to some naysayer's forehead with my CIB. IZ was more fun than my time in AFG, not that it means anything.

76 Another brave corpse-man of the US Military.

77 To all the stupid fuckers who criticize the Iraq/Afghanistan war:
I'm a veteran of Desert Storm (First Armored Division) and OIF (101st Airborne Division).
ThereÂ’s still a contingent of people with selective amnesia, who question the validity. Saddam Hussein was a megalomaniac in violation of U.N. Resolutions, including UN Resolution 1441, which gave us the specific authority to use force if he did not comply with the dismantlement and discontinuation of his WMD program. We found WMD (http://tinyurl.com/78tm5y) as well as hundreds of mass graves of people he killed for belonging to different religious sects, and those who opposed his regime. He attacked every neighboring country except Syria from 1979-1991, and gave safe haven and support to terrorists.
Our mission was clear; to overthrow and defeat SaddamÂ’s Baathist regime; kill or capture him, and help Iraq build an infrastructure through which it could stabilize and govern itself. Iraq isn't perfect but it's a damn sight better off than it was when Saddam had an iron grip. As for Afghanistan, the invasion was prompted by the fact that Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda used the country as a training base for the 9/11 attacks, among others. They still do, because we haven't bothered to wipe them all out enmasse.
Are Americans willing to pay the price for this war against Islamofascism? If they donÂ’t want another 9/11 they had damned well better be. The only viable Â’exit strategyÂ’ is to ensure that Islamic extremists and any other malefactor, will think twice about the worth of attacking the United States. To accomplish that will take more than just a piecemeal war in two muslim countries. It will take making William Tecumseh Sherman look like a Boy Scout. We could pull every American military member out of the Middle East and muzzie extremists would still come here and try to kill us, because their avowed goal is to destroy the West; America in particular. Terrorists are bred, funded, indoctrinated, supported, and trained throughout  the Islamic cesspool. We should have finished it the next day.  IÂ’d have rocked their fucking Casbah with neutron bombs and put a quick end to their  quest for a new Caliphate. But then, I'm a former Soldier, not a politician.

78 SFC MAC: "To accomplish that will take more than just a piecemeal war in two muslim countries. It will take making William Tecumseh Sherman look like a Boy Scout. " This is the part the Pentagon and the pols won't understand. And it is why we keep losing these wars, even if we manage to pretend they were a "victory" for a while. We would do better to decide that the next time we use our military to intervene that there are virtually no survivors. Knock them back to the seventh century and interdict any meddlers. We need to Hamburg and Hiroshima our enemies and make no apologies for it.

79

" We must remember that the men and women who fought in Iraq are heroes who are worth inheritors of a line that dates back through Vietnam, two world wars and many other fights all the way to George Washington and the American Revolution."

Absolutely.

Thank you for saying this.

80

Iraq was a massive mistake.  Not as bad as Vietnam but still a ridiculous stupid pointless waste of lives and money.  That's all.

81 And we still don't have the guts to name the enemy. It's Islam. Not radical Islam, not jihadis, Islam. That's the enemy. We can never repay our servicemen and women. Hell, we are not even trying. Makes me feel like we deserve this national misery. By the way, I did 22 years. If I was able, I'd do some more. Who knows, I might get the opportunity right here in America.