Ace of Spades HQ

December 15, 2013

Sunday Morning Book Thread 12-15-2013: The Rise of the Machines [OregonMuse]
— Open Blogger

Good morning morons and moronettes and welcome to the award-winning AoSHQ's prestigious Sunday Morning Book Thread.

Get Ready For SkyNet

Well, here we go. From the sidebar earlier this week, we're supposedly on the verge of creating devices with human-level intelligence, and the implications, a new book by James Barrat claims, are not good. The progression from 'normal' human-level intelligence to artificial super intelligence will be lightning fast and impossible to stop.

Me, I'm skeptical. Keep in mind that Barrat is not an AI specialist, but rather a filmmaker whose work, according to his website, mainly focuses on Mideast archeology. I don't believe in exclusive professional "guilds" where outsiders are shut out completely, and that gifted amateurs can certainly contribute, but on the other hand, there is a tendency for the amateur, who may know just enough to be dangerous, to latch on to a theory and then cherry-pick evidence from the experts who are sympathetic and discount or explain away contrary evidence from those that aren't. I've seen this happen, among other places, in the flap over Y2K preparedness. So what you get is not science, but rather some form of ideology or belief masquerading as science, impervious to refutation, even theoretically.

I went to one of the links in the review article and learned that this issue is referred to as the "AI foom" debate, that is, if generally intelligent AIs could undergo a Â“foomÂ” in which they very rapidly improve their own capabilities with little or no warning. For those interested in looking more into this, they even have an eBook of a foom debate by two AI experts, Robin Hanson and Eliezer Yudkowsky, free for downloading. You can get it in pdf, ePub or Mobi formats.

Sgt. Mom on Sale, This Week Only, Save 15%

She e-mails:

I usually do three or four Christmas sales events at this time of year, but this year one was cancelled and another absolutely wrecked by insanely cold weather. I am going to have a one-week long sale of print books through my own website, through the 19th in order to recoup some of what I might have earned.

It's 15% off, and a special deal for five of my print books at $50 - autographed, personal message if requested.

Here is the order page at her website.

When Bad Sex Is Good Sex

OK, so the British magazine Literary Review gives out a prize every year to the novel with the worst sex scene. It was started in 1993 to "to draw attention to the crude, tasteless, often perfunctory use of redundant passages of sexual description in the modern novel, and to discourage it." This year the prize went to a book I had never heard of and have no interest in reading, so I'm not going to go into any detail about it. But what caught my eye was this:

Past winners include Tom Wolfe, Rachel Johnson, Giles Coren, AA Gill and Norman Mailer, and in 2008 John Updike was awarded a lifetime achievement prize.

The last bit about Updike is pretty funny, but... Tom Wolfe? Really? Wolfe wrote a bad sex scene? I Googled around a bit and sure enough, it turns out that Wolfe won the prize in 2004 for his novel I Am Charlotte Simmons

Wait a minute.

I read that book. I remember the sex scene they're talking about. The main character makes a poor decision and gives up her virginity to a worthless, entitled douchebag. She is left with nothing but loss. Yes, it's bad sex. Yes, it's spectacularly unerotic. But that's the whole point. Wolfe deliberately wrote it that way. It's not every erotic to be talked into doing something you really don't want to do with some scummy guy you really don't want to be with, for reasons that turn out to be more or less pointless. Charlotte Simmons' first experience with sex is one big negative, and I think the non-erotic deflowering scene communicates this very well.

There's a difference between trying to be sexy, and failing, and trying not to be sexy, and succeeding. I think the Literary Review unwisely conflated the two.

Another thing I learned here is that the rat bastard commie folksinger Woodie Guthrie wrote a book. It made the bad sex prize short list:

His book House of Earth, written in 1947, was published for the first time this year - with an introduction by the actor Johnny Depp, and a love scene lasting 30 pages that is literally a roll in the hay: "Back and forth, side to side, they moved on their bed on the hay. Back and forth, side to side, they moved their hips, their feet, their legs, their whole bodies. Their arms tied into knots like vines climbing trees, and the trees moved and swayed, and there was a time and a rhythm to the blend of the movement."

Yeah, that's pretty bad. If the movie Plan 9 From Outer Space had a sex scene, it would probably look something like that.

Book Bleg Results

Thank you to 'Nash Rambler' and the other morons who identified my book bleg as Anything Can Happen by George and Helen Waite Papashvily, first published in 1945. Commenter 'Alifa' describes it as "a wonderful immigration-to-America story; it has both humor and sadness." I gotta get me a copy. The title sounds like an earlier version of the comedian Yakov Smirnoff's signature exclamation 'What a country!'

Books For Morons

One of the fans of the book thread e-mailed me this week and wants me to mention that her husband, who has won Emmy and Peabody awards for his writing on cartoons such as Animaniacs, Pinky & the Brain, and Freakazoid, has written a funny little story, Jury Doody available on Kindle for 99 cents.

___________

So that's all for this week. As always, book thread tips, suggestions, rumors, threats, and insults may be sent to OregonMuse, Proprietor, AoSHQ Book Thread, at aoshqbookthread, followed by the 'at' sign, and then 'G' mail, and then dot cee oh emm.

What have you all been reading this week? Hopefully something good, because, as I keep saying, life is too short to be reading lousy books.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 AM | Comments (107)
Post contains 1056 words, total size 7 kb.

1 Read the fault in our stars. Depressing.

Posted by: NCKate at December 15, 2013 07:09 AM (R2eVV)

2 Working on Once an Eagle on the Kindle. This is probably one of the best military novels ever written.

This despite being infused with all kinds of liberal trash.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 15, 2013 07:09 AM (T2V/1)

3 One of the 'ettes ref'd the best short short SF stories collection, and that made me think of one of my favorite collections, Asimov's "Microcosmic Tales", one hundred shorties by the greats - Niven, Clarke, Asimov, et al. It's old and out of print, but the stories are pretty timeless.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at December 15, 2013 07:15 AM (QBm1P)

4 The AI debate is interesting from a philosophical perspective. Ethics is, of course, a major category of philosophical inquiry, but that presupposes some sort of moral compass innate to humans. Can an artificially created intelligence have a "morality" or will it be, by definition amoral in the extreme? The debate really says more about the nature of Man and his unending desire to assume the mantle of the Creator, than it does about what we're building, I think.

Posted by: RS at December 15, 2013 07:15 AM (YAGV/)

5 I read a sample from Raiders by Ross Kemp and then bought the full book because the sample description of the British raid on Italian warships at Taranto was a really great read. I really like when an author can recount factual incidents like that in a way that is as gripping as a good novel. Those Brit naval pilots flying the Swordfairy sp? bi-planes to drop the bombs and torpedoes had heaping measures of old time British gallantry.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 15, 2013 07:17 AM (cQZV0)

Back and forth, side to side,

****

Wait, slow down, I'm trying to take notes here. Back and forth? That doesn't sound right.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 15, 2013 07:18 AM (N/Sup)

7 Regarding AI: Roger Penrose's "The Emperor's New Mind" has quite a bit to say about the possibility of true machine intelligence. He concludes that basically we don't even know the branch of reality that a true understanding of sentience requires. It's not physics, mathematics, chemistry, etc. There was a followup book that had a bit of a round robin discussion of the topic, but I forget the name of that one.

Posted by: alo89 at December 15, 2013 07:19 AM (IacRz)

we're supposedly on the verge of creating devices with human-level intelligence,

***

I'm not sure that is setting the bar very high.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 15, 2013 07:19 AM (N/Sup)

9 Robots as the new FSA? Scary.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at December 15, 2013 07:27 AM (IPz9m)

10 "...we're supposedly on the verge of creating devices with human-level intelligence,"

Made much easier by the proliferation of the LIVs and dumbed Dem base.

Posted by: George Orwell at December 15, 2013 07:28 AM (Vv4Go)

11 A writer buddy of mine named Mike Baker who reviewed horror novels back in the day collected "bad cussing" examples. His favorite (from some book I don't recall the name or author of) was "You fucking shit of God!"

Posted by: jwpaine @PirateBallerina at December 15, 2013 07:31 AM (2oU2+)

12 I recently read Robopocalypse, a relatively recent addition to the rise of the machines genre. Not bad. Supposedly, Spielberg is going to turn it into a movie.

Posted by: Jorge at December 15, 2013 07:31 AM (ZRPb2)

13 9 Robots as the new FSA? Scary. No electricity no peas! No electricity no peas!

Posted by: Your friendly neighborhood sentient robot farmer at December 15, 2013 07:31 AM (U82Km)

14 With the centennial of the Great War approaching, can any morons recommend any books on it?

Posted by: extra at December 15, 2013 07:33 AM (XTlIj)

15 Cartoon Network showed last night the anime movie Summer Wars about a high school kid who is almost smart enough for the math Olympics. While pretending to be a girl's boyfriend at the big family gathering, he thinks he cracks a super hard mathematical problem. And then the whole global Internet falls victim to a smart hacker program. So comes down to him, her, and her whole family to rally and battle online to save the globe. What makes it a very good story is the humanity in it. As I said they have gathered to celebrate their grandmother's 90th birthday and she is the glue and wisdom holding them together, even as they battle Love Machine.

Rise of the machines has been done long before War Games or Terminator. In movie format there is The Forbin Project where the US and USSR defense computers take the world hostage. In the literary there is the Hugo winning short story by Harlan Ellison called I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and also the short novel The Adolescence of P-1.

Last night in the ONT I mentioned the book 100 Great Science Fiction Short Short Stories.
Science Fiction for Telepaths by E. Michael Blake.
Aw, you know what I mean.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 07:35 AM (vjloV)

Science Fiction for Telepaths by E. Michael Blake.

****

No need to mention it Anna.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 15, 2013 07:39 AM (N/Sup)

17 15 In movie format there is The Forbin Project where the US and USSR defense computers take the world hostage. In the literary there is ... Colossus: The Forbin Project was a book before it was a movie. There's even a sequel, in which the humans manage to free themselves from the machines, albeit with a little outside help.

Posted by: Anachronda at December 15, 2013 07:40 AM (U82Km)

18 Thanks for the link, OM! (Hey, over here, guys - I've got books!_ Myself, I just finished a rather amusing book by T.H.E Hill -"Reunification". A former army linguist returns to Berlin to write a history of the East German Secret Police (the Stasi), thirty years after his first posting here and finds out that someone in his unit was a Stasi informer. Lots of amusing anecdotes - and a rather touching travelogue of various once-significant places in divided Berlin. Currently reading Erik Larson's "In the Garden of Beasts" - about the family of the American ambassador to Germany in the thirties. He was a nice, well-meaning man, an academic who spoke the language, and seems to have been appointed in a fit of absentmindedness by Roosevelt - and because none of those higher on the list wanted it. I'm only in the first chapters, though.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at December 15, 2013 07:42 AM (Asjr7)

19 "Can an artificially created intelligence have a "morality" or will it be, by definition amoral in the extreme?"

I expect their morality will be simple.

Humans bad. Kill them all.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 15, 2013 07:43 AM (V70Uh)

20 Oops. I confused them with Earth Firsters.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 15, 2013 07:44 AM (V70Uh)

21 Wait, there is such a thing as bad sex?

Posted by: chemjeff at December 15, 2013 07:44 AM (Tl6G3)

22 we're supposedly on the verge of creating devices with human-level intelligence,

***

I'm not sure that is setting the bar very high.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 15, 2013 11:19 AM (N/Sup)

Yeah... Is this Moron smart or LIV smart?

Finished reading "Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader" yesterday. It's a history of North Korea and the Kims, and is every bit as awful as you can imagine, and then some. It's from around 2005, so current events have overtaken it; the last chapter is speculation about who would succeed Kim Jong-Il, with the author expressing fervent hope it wouldn't be Kim Jong-Un... who of course it was.

Lots of interviews with defectors. The horror stories almost get redundant after a while, especially the ones from the mid 90's, when the country had a horrific famine and people were literally eating grass and tree bark.

It's in the same category as Rudolf Hoess' autobiography: I'm glad I read it, but the subject matter is so depressing and awful that I don't know if I'd recommend it to anyone else.

Posted by: Secundus at December 15, 2013 07:45 AM (ZwjWK)

23 This week I actually read a couple of books. It's getting rare that I read that many any more as I'm more into current affairs stuff.

They were limited time Kindle freebies from Amazon links posted by morons. The titles are A Distant Eden and Adrian's War by Lloyd Tackitt. There are two more books in the series now; all are $3.99 for the Kindle. I'm contemplating buying the last two, and I'm a well known cheap bastard.

What he does is interweave survival skills, prepping, military tactics and a story together. It's entertaining and sends me to the web to look up stuff like plant pictures. I learned quite a few things from the first two books.

On the downside, his editing and proofing leaves a bit to be desired. He does make a few continuity mistakes and even contradicts himself in a couple of spots. But I'm nitpicking, I suppose.

Overall, if you're interested in prep type stuff in a SHTF fictional story, I recommend giving the first one a try.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 15, 2013 07:46 AM (cHZB7)

24 Made some progress in Gibbon this past week by finishing a very short chapter on the Paulicians, a weird little sect which rejected the Old Testament and any representation of Christ on the cross. Needless to say, this didn't go over very well with quite a number of people in the Byzantine empire so there was quite a bit of persecution, as in destroying villages where it was practiced, in parts of Armenia where this was prevalent; until they were physically relocated into Thrace, where they continued to be a presence and even spread their weird word into Italy and France. Gibbon ends the chapter with some words about the Reformation which, surprising to nobody, he criticizes for not being more radical. He then indulges in his standard Christian bashing by ridiculing transubstantiation. I began the next chapter where he starts out talking about the Bulgarians, who under Simeon conducted a successful siege of Constantinople which was settled in his favor. Previous to that the Bulgarians had killed Nicephorus when he unwisely attacked them and then cut him off when he foolishly ventured too far into their territory. They displayed his head on a pike and subsequently used his skull as a repository for captured gold. Gibbon gets things spectacularly wrong on his views of the Bulgarians being Slavs, which the subsequent editors gleefully correct him in the updated footnotes.

I began "Red Fortress: History and Illusion in the Kremlin" by Catherine Merridale. In the introduction she mentions that Stalin narrowly followed Nicholas I as the greatest name in Russian history. There's something seriously wrong for a country to think that way.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 07:46 AM (37Azy)

25 "The First World War" by John Keegan and "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman are great books about The Great War... enjoy!

Posted by: tomc at December 15, 2013 07:46 AM (avEuh)

26 The Great War? I am happily sucked into "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman, which covers the month of August, 1914. About half way through. Holy Moley. These assholes had been planning it for years.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 15, 2013 07:48 AM (V70Uh)

27 "Gibbon gets things spectacularly wrong on his views of the Bulgarians being Slavs"

?

I'm a little lost. What the hell are they then?

Posted by: AD at December 15, 2013 07:51 AM (nuiAZ)

28 Next project is to finally finish "Gargantua and Pantagruel" by Rabelais. Six hundred twenty five pages of dick and fart jokes. I'm only finishing it out of a sense of obligation; it may have been hilarious in Middle French, but the joke gets old a lot faster in English.

Posted by: Secundus at December 15, 2013 07:51 AM (ZwjWK)

29 I read Keegan's book on WW1. I don't enjoy his writing style as much as I do that of other historians but he effectively gets across just what a clusterfuck the start of the war was and the technological changes that made it very different from every previous war.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 07:53 AM (37Azy)

30 Well, the book isn't going to read itself.

bbl

Posted by: Jimbo at December 15, 2013 07:55 AM (V70Uh)

31 I'm a little lost. What the hell are they then?

Posted by: AD at December 15, 2013 11:51 AM (nuiAZ)

Originally Huns. They subsequently united with Slavonics but he was erroneously describing them at a point in time prior to that.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 07:57 AM (37Azy)

32 In the introduction she mentions that Stalin narrowly followed Nicholas I as the greatest name in Russian history. There's something seriously wrong for a country to think that way.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 11:46 AM (37Azy)

Funny thing, he wasn't even a Russian. In addition to the whole 'mass murdering genocidal spawn of Satan' thing. Speaking of which, Simon Sebag Montefiore's "Young Stalin" is well worth a read. Follows Uncle Joe from birth the the October Revolution, and has lots of stuff from old Soviet archives that apparently hadn't seen daylight before.

Posted by: Secundus at December 15, 2013 07:58 AM (ZwjWK)

33 Well shucks we've been able to create machines with the intelligence of the SCOAMF ever since the first etch a sketch. Changes all the time and you just wipe out what you said a few minutes ago. Yup---a kid's old 60's etch a sketch is at least as bright as Da Bamstuh.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at December 15, 2013 07:58 AM (VAche)

34 yeah, Keegan is pretty dry but it tells it like it is... truly amazing how nuts the European powers were at the time... some would say they still are--

Posted by: tomc at December 15, 2013 07:59 AM (avEuh)

35 Going through The Discoverers by Daniel Boorstin now. A good overview.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 15, 2013 08:01 AM (u82oZ)

36 Posted by: Secundus at December 15, 2013 11:58 AM (ZwjWK)

Yes I'm sure the Georgian gimp was mistrusted by a lot of European leaning Rooskis, which he rewarded by liquidating a significant number of which.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 08:02 AM (37Azy)

37 Notice that two of the greatest mass-murdering national leaders were not native to the nation they led. Hitler was Austrian and Stalin was Georgian. Note: pbho is culturally leftist Indonesian. Good thing the populous owns guns and pbho is so lazy.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 15, 2013 08:08 AM (u82oZ)

38 Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 12:02 PM (37Azy)

Yeah. A lot of the other Bolshies didn't like him, either-- one of his principal jobs was fundraising for the movement via theft, extortion, gun running, piracy (the hijacking boats kind, not the RIAA kind), kidnapping for profit and bank robbery. Trotsky and Co. seemed to think he was giving them a bad name... Which he was, of course, but by the time they realized he was also building a network of buddies who had more guns and fewer scruples than them, it was too late.

Posted by: Secundus at December 15, 2013 08:10 AM (ZwjWK)

39 President Etch-a-Sketch. Now, that's gooood.

Posted by: jwpaine @PirateBallerina at December 15, 2013 08:10 AM (2oU2+)

40 "Outside help?" As in rebel humans or aliens? Learn something new everyday.

Seamus, I could fortell you would say that.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 08:14 AM (vjloV)

41 This summer TNT is supposed to air a series based on William Brinkley's 1988 post-nuclear-apocalyptic novel "The Last Ship." I've read TNT is only using about 10% of the book. That will be a good thing. I read about half of his book when it came out then threw it away. A book with a thousand blank pages would be a better read than The Last Ship.

Posted by: ExSnipe at December 15, 2013 08:14 AM (57ubW)

42 If the 404Care site is the beginning of AI, I foresee great problems ahead.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 15, 2013 08:14 AM (0HooB)

43 Second verse, same as the first...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 15, 2013 08:16 AM (0HooB)

44 The fact that we cannot detect evidence of, nor have they visibly visited this solar system, any AI von neumann machines is a decent argument that we are in fact alone in this galaxy.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 15, 2013 08:17 AM (cHZB7)

45 Most people probably think Custer's Last Stand was the worst defeat inflicted on the US Army by Indians. I just got an Osprey book, "Wabash 1791, St. Clair's Defeat". About 1,700 US troops, including the 2nd US (regular) Infantry were decisively beaten, and nearly wiped out by a roughly 1,400 strong coalition of eastern woodland Indians in Ohio. As in all Osprey books, the artwork is great, and many photos of artifacts and the present day battlefield.

Wiley Sword also wrote a book that covers this, "President Washington's Indian War" that covers the campaigns in detail, with some chilling recollections from survivors. Highly interesting and recommended if you have any interest in the subject.

Posted by: JHW at December 15, 2013 08:20 AM (fP7ld)

46 Started "The Great Deformation" by David Stockman and boy, is he pissed. And I can't really argue with him. I'm reading right now about the AIG bailout and I am completely with him. I wished at the time that they would just let AIG go. Among other things, it would have had a beneficial effect on the wonderful world of insurance, and it would not have wasted money on people who were too stupid to breathe, i.e., the part if AIG that was selling credit default swaps. And I'm still reading "The everything book about socialism" or whatever the hell the title is. Every single time some socialist scheme goes wrong there is one of two causes (and I'm only up to the 19th century). Either they try to act based on the idea that humans can be made to behave perfectly and without sin, or they try to take a private arrangement and inflict it on society at large including those who think it's a giant pile of shit. Every day, monasteries live lives of internal communism. No one owns anything personally and all are given what they need and all work for the good of the monastery. And it works. But it's a purely private internal arrangement and I don't believe they would ever expect it to work outside, nor, beyond asking for donations, do they expect anyone to go along with how they organize their lives. So in small entirely voluntary groups, this can work. But try to expand and enlarge, and all that results is endless misery.

Posted by: Tonestaple at December 15, 2013 08:21 AM (B7YN4)

47 About a month ago I read Ray Kurzweil's "The Singularity Is Near: Where Humans Transcend Biology". He explains how achievements in "GNR" (genetics, nanotechnology, and robotics) will be used to enhance humans so that they have greater intelligence, memory. longevity, etc. He believes that humans will have to have these enhancements to keep up with the ever faster changes in information. He tries to sell this as a good thing. I'm not buying it.

Posted by: Zoltan at December 15, 2013 08:21 AM (RXos3)

48 Nicholas 1, he presided over the war with Persia, and the Crimean conflict,
some early episodes of the Caucasus war, but not much of note, as compared to Catherine or Peter the Great.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 15, 2013 08:22 AM (Jsiw/)

49 Plug your brain into the Internet and get hacked. Wave of the future.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 08:22 AM (vjloV)

50 Posted by: Tonestaple at December 15, 2013 12:21 PM (B7YN4)

The difference is, this time you've got me.

*TFG*

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 15, 2013 08:25 AM (cHZB7)

51 *pauses and has a brainstorm*

A non-Ghost in the Shell story idea with no relation to nano-technology just popped to mind. A crime drama, really muse? Well let me scribble it down.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 08:25 AM (vjloV)

52 I don't have any reading material to add to this week's discussion, but I do have a product for your perusal. If you would like to have a very nice leather cover for your Kindle, Nook, iPad etc., Oberon Designs makes a great product. I had a tough time deciding which one to choose. Here is the website if you are interested. www.oberondesign.com

Posted by: no good deed at December 15, 2013 08:26 AM (HsJeN)

53 Frederick Pohl, "Gateway": a 1970s-era classic. Here's a picture from the book cover:
http://tinyurl.com/kn3vzba

Okay, okay; my book cover looked like this:
http://www.saltmanz.com/pictures/Cover%20Scans/Book%20Covers/Gateway.jpg.php

But the former is more true to the text, given that no-one actually pilots any ships. . .

Gateway is (supposedly) the sequel to the (horrible and evil) "Merchants of Venus", but more like the way the first Summer Glau "Terminator" season was a sequel to "Terminator 2". Namely: it's a rewrite of the same material.

These stories are about alien-tech prospectors. The aliens who left this tech are the mysterious Heechee (read "Merchants" for why). If they go someplace interesting and come back alive with information and/or tech, the survivor(s) get a royalty.

In "Gateway" the prospectors are doing their work in outer space. The guys on Venus found a ship that went to a space-station, the Gateway - actually, the first Gateway; there exist more. On the Gateway(s) are many Heechee ships that go... wherever you tell them to go. But there isn't an instruction manual, so . . . luck helps.

"Merchants"'s point was about how capitalism was just dumb luck so SOCIALISMO O MUERTE (as in "Merchants"). Here Pohl offers more an in-depth look at survivor-guilt.

So, here is where the 1970s hilarity comes through. There are references to transcendental meditation and EST. People here go to confessional by shrink, and Freud is his Prophet. It is further assumed that everyone is bisexual to X percent (yay, Alfred Kinsey!). On that topic what the prospectors do in their spare time is to fuck each other. I was literally surprised that the London Boys didn't make a cameo. The story's "hero" also porks a 16-year-old girl, which even her family doesn't seem to mind. (He then breaks up with her, and leaves her and his other ex-gf stranded near an event-horizon. But he feels really bad about it.)

Pohl's mean streak, stronger in "Merchants", does come out from time to time. For instance one of the earlier destinations for a Heechee ship was Barnard's Star, but that voyage came up empty. Nerds of the late 1970s would have associated this with the then-ongoing debunking of Peter van de Kamp's planet. Maybe some people laughed at the time. Me, I thought "what an ass".

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at December 15, 2013 08:27 AM (Nsoq9)

54 Posted by: RS at December 15, 2013 11:15 AM (YAGV/) "They told you I had developed morality did they?" --"The Moment" AKA "Bad Wolf" from the recent Doctor Who.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at December 15, 2013 08:29 AM (GaqMa)

55 Elbows!

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 15, 2013 08:32 AM (R8hU8)

56 Boy, I sure could use some of that artificial intelligence for myself.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at December 15, 2013 08:32 AM (Dwehj)

57 Boulder Toilet Hobo the sequels were not much better. Especially when they found a consciousness inside a black hole where Heechee electronic recording were pointing to. Thus was the fate of the Heechee and humans, to become ghosts in the machines. Sic transit the flesh.

But it has been years since I have read any of those books, perhaps should purge them from the shelves. Though for some odd reason one line from the short story The Extrapolated Dimwit has always stuck in my mind - "I would go back to mother if she wasn't a six fingered lizard!"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 08:33 AM (vjloV)

58 I've been reading "Lawrence In Arabia" by Scott Anderson. The main subject is TE Lawrence, aka Lawrence of Arabia, who finds himself and a cast of colorful characters in Syria, 1914, when WWI and all hell broke out. It's a well written book and a page-turner, perfect for your armchair historian.

Posted by: Cowboy at December 15, 2013 08:33 AM (tFH99)

59 Pompoms!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 15, 2013 08:34 AM (0HooB)

60 Hey BB how's the new gig going?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 15, 2013 08:37 AM (R8hU8)

61 The novels more or less stand alone and are fun reads.

Posted by: The Albino Freckled Desert Sand-Breathing Fish at December 15, 2013 12:25 PM (KBvAm)

I read Iron Sunrise and enjoyed it, along with Accelerando, a great deal; he incorporates a lot of interesting concepts effectively. He's a fucking lib nut when it comes to politics and unfortunately inserts them sporadically in his work.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 08:39 AM (37Azy)

62 Posted by: GnuBreed at December 15, 2013 12:25 PM (cHZB7) Still ain't gonna work and, if anything, it will fail more explosively than before.

Posted by: Tonestaple at December 15, 2013 08:41 AM (B7YN4)

63 The whole A.I. thing drives me nuts.
There simply is no conflating processing power with intelligence, and that's what the prophets of A.I. always do.
My autistic child has every bit as much processing power as I do, running on similar hardware architecture, yet she is (and I say this with all the love in my heart) a drooling idiot.

To the best of our current knowledge (or, current when I was last keeping up with it, anyway) neurons transmit information by using 6 independent channels, all conveying different information simultaneously, all of which can be modulated in intensity. Digital information is processed in a single binary channel, with no modulation.

If artificial intelligence came to exist, it would be utterly alien to us, and we almost certainly wouldn't recognize it as such.

But the benchmark we use is the Turing Test, or to what degree output from a computer program resembles reactions from a human.
I've "met" several people online who could be easily simulated by a short program in BASIC. Whoopie. Artificial Stupidity has been achieved.
I don't think anyone would argue that this would be an efficient use of resources. But it's pretty much what we're attempting to do: make a computer use thought processes similar to our own. You might as well try to teach a goldfish to sing.

Posted by: Luke at December 15, 2013 08:41 AM (2MUaT)

64 Nicholas 1, he presided over the war with Persia, and the Crimean conflict,
some early episodes of the Caucasus war, but not much of note, as compared to Catherine or Peter the Great.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 15, 2013 12:22 PM (Jsiw/)

I was surprised that neither of them were one or two. Inscrutable Rooskis.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 15, 2013 08:42 AM (37Azy)

65 With the centennial of the Great War approaching, can any morons recommend any books on it? - A World Undone by Meyer is a good single volume history of the war. I found The Sorrow and the Beauty by Englund very moving. It is true stories of a number of ordinary people caught up in the war but it helps if you have a good understanding of the war generally.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 15, 2013 08:43 AM (E+uky)

66 I am further in "the Big Book of Christmas Mysteries" a collection by Otto Penzler. I am really liking it now. It is a great collection of Christmas themed mysteries by some of the greats, like Agatha Christie, Ellery Queen, Sherlock Holmes, Damon Runyon. If you are looking for a different sort of Christmas book and you like mysteries I would highly recommend this one.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at December 15, 2013 08:44 AM (RZ8pf)

67 Pretty good, VA. The work is intricate, interesting and very precise. Now I just need to get over this bout of bronchitis which is kicking my ass...had to make a visit to the ER Thursday night.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 15, 2013 08:44 AM (0HooB)

68 If you have constant pain or like being high.. You should check out http://americascivilwar.blogspot.com/2013/12/kratomcom-premium-commercial-kratom.html?m=1 A completely legal and safe high!

Posted by: Darian Elliott at December 15, 2013 08:44 AM (pCf+a)

69 So robots are getting smarter and people are getting stupider. Let's meet in the middle at, say, washing machine intelligence.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 15, 2013 08:52 AM (E+uky)

70 The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer. Short and sweet. Back later.

Posted by: baldilocks at December 15, 2013 08:52 AM (36Rjy)

71 This just in: Mandela Funeral Signer signed "POTUS = 2 Illegit 2 Quit"

Posted by: MtTB at December 15, 2013 08:53 AM (xehjI)

72 "71 So robots are getting smarter and people are getting stupider. Let's meet in the middle at, say, washing machine intelligence. Posted by: WalrusRex at December 15, 2013 12:52 PM"
But who would vote for Democrats, then?

Posted by: MtTB at December 15, 2013 08:56 AM (xehjI)

73 Maybe I should write a short story about how Lace Wigs and Farm Machinery took over the Internet.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 08:56 AM (vjloV)

74 J. Barrat - OMG The Machines Will Kill Us! A. Gore - OMG The Planet Will Burn! C. Little - OMG The Sky Is FallinG! First of all I would be *shocked* if it was 2020. Whole teams spend years building something a tiny percentage as complex as a human brain. IMHO you can't *build* and AI you will have to grow one, simply because you don't have the time. Secondly, what's with the paranoia? Why is someone smarter than you automatically evil? These freakout episodes sound like kids hating on nerds, it's like the great Crabs Pulling Other Crabs Back Down Into The Bucket metaphor. I do not think it will be long before the mentally ill start obsessing on machines controlling their lives and ranting about it - assuming it hasn't already happened.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 15, 2013 09:05 AM (qyfb5)

75 Sequel to "Colossus: The Forbin Project" is "Fall of Colossus." Outside help = ET. I liked it.

British aircraft used for raid at Taranto: Fairey Swordfish. Obsolete (heh) biplanes, nicknamed "Stringbag." Remained in service until VE Day.

Posted by: butch at December 15, 2013 09:08 AM (EV3Uf)

76 The Christmas Mysteries book sounds great, Paranoidgirl. I'm a mystery junkie, so I'll have to check it out. Just finished The Drunken Botanist by Amy Stewart. The first book of hers that I've read, and it's really interesting - everything you wanted to know about the botanicals that go into our adult beverages. Love the info and the author's curiosity. Finished Joyland by Stephen King. Lightweight, but not bad. Rereading The Blessing Way by Tony Hillerman. Loved it when I first read it at least 20 years ago, but having trouble getting into it this time. Bedtime reading is currently England's 1,000 Best Houses - wishing for more pictures.

Posted by: Bookaday at December 15, 2013 09:11 AM (+HEUC)

77 Merovign, yep it took V'Ger traveling across the universe for centuries amassing information before it became self aware.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 15, 2013 09:12 AM (vjloV)

78 Thanks to whomever recommended the book "Endurance" about Shackleton's misadventures on the Antarctic. It was riveting. While talking about it to my sister in law she told me we were related to one of his crew.
Anyway, love this weekly discussion, and my lurking often pays off.

Posted by: Gidget at December 15, 2013 09:15 AM (tfg7i)

79 21 Wait, there is such a thing as bad sex? Posted by: chemjeff at December 15, 2013 11:44 AM (Tl6G3) There is nothing as over rated as bad sex, or as under rated as a good s*it.

Posted by: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth at December 15, 2013 09:21 AM (52lgb)

80 Just a reminder. Vince Flynn. I consume more fiction than non and just finished re-listening to all his novels via Audible.
What a great loss.

Posted by: Gidget at December 15, 2013 09:27 AM (tfg7i)

81 Bookaday, the book has an awesome cover and the stories are formatted in double columns on paper that feels like old pulp fiction paper. Honestly it just adds to the enjoyment of reading it. Only problem is the print is kind of tiny. Son just subscribed to the Alfred Hitchcock Mystery Magazine because of the school magazine drive. There are some good short story writers out there. And some not so good. Makes me wonder why the editors decide on some of the stories they include. And suspect it is political in some way

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at December 15, 2013 09:28 AM (RZ8pf)

82 *Finally* got through Les Miserables on TTS. The reader is rarely at a loss as to Hugo's opinion on any given topic mentioned, that's for sure. Started War and Peace on TTS and am surprised at how much better I like it than Les Miz. I don't know if that will continue, but so far (other than confusing a couple of characters for a bit) I've found it to generally be faster paced and the characters more interesting. There's a lot less author insertion as well, which I suspect has a lot to do with my enjoying it more. I also read a lesser known Scarlet Pimpernel book called I Will Repay. It's set between the murder of Murat and before Robespierre's execution. I hadn't intended to have so many books set in a continuum like that, but it makes for interesting contrasts in point of view.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 09:39 AM (GDulk)

83 *Finally* got through Les Miserables on TTS. The reader is rarely at a loss as to Hugo's opinion on any given topic mentioned, that's for sure. Started War and Peace on TTS and am surprised at how much better I like it than Les Miz. I don't know if that will continue, but so far (other than confusing a couple of characters for a bit) I've found it to generally be faster paced and the characters more interesting. There's a lot less author insertion as well, which I suspect has a lot to do with my enjoying it more. I also read a lesser known Scarlet Pimpernel book called I Will Repay. It's set between the murder of Murat and before Robespierre's execution. I hadn't intended to have so many books set in a continuum like that, but it makes for interesting contrasts in point of view.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 09:39 AM (GDulk)

84 Hm, first double post. No idea how I did it either.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 09:50 AM (GDulk)

85 Finished "Manson", by Jeff Guinn. I was worried that it would get boring, like his book on Bonnie and Clyde did. (Yes, the whole point was that it was dirty and anti glamorous. That doesn't make it any less tedious to read about.) But it would take a far worse writer than Guinn to make Manson boring. He tries to exonerate the counter culture - this is His Generation, after all - but nope, not buying it. I left with far more sympathy for the ordinary people trying to clean up after those filthy scuzzes and pre empt the damage than the scumbags themselves - even though I would've exploded with rage and frustration if I'd had to live through the 50s. I'm on "Five Star Billionaire", by Tash Aw. I was a little wary, because I've had bad experiences with a certain school of Anglo Indian, English language fiction (I hate writers like Rohinton Mistry, Jhumpa Lahiri and Kiran Desai) and an instinctive racism, coupled with a feeling that anything that has the like of the Guardian and my socialist friends drooling has to be middlebrow tosh, kicked in. But it is very, very good. I mean, very very good. The people behave like real, flawed people who act with some internal consistency - not as obvious attempts to make wider political and religious points. (Why yes, Mr Mistry, yes I AM talking to you. Why do you ask?) And the self help guide format to it really brings the story along.

Posted by: Lizzie at December 15, 2013 09:53 AM (cfDJS)

86 87 *Finally* got through Les Miserables on TTS. The reader is rarely at a loss as to Hugo's opinion on any given topic mentioned, that's for sure. Started War and Peace on TTS and am surprised at how much better I like it than Les Miz. I don't know if that will continue, but so far (other than confusing a couple of characters for a bit) I've found it to generally be faster paced and the characters more interesting. There's a lot less author insertion as well, which I suspect has a lot to do with my enjoying it more. Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 01:39 PM (GDulk) ======================== Yup. There are parts of Les Miz that would make novels I'd read gladly, the introduction to the convent being one. Others, like the blow by blow account of the Battle of Waterloo, er, not so much. Overall, however, it badly needs an editor. (Or maybe it was a bad translation? I read the black Penguin edition.) I don't mind author insertion as a rule. Someone like Thackeray or Balzac can pull it off, because they make it serve a purpose and, more importantly, know when to STFU. With Hugo, there's always the frame of a rollicking good story, but his insertions reek of padding and a sense that, by Jove, he's done all this research and not one comma of it's going to waste.

Posted by: Lizzie at December 15, 2013 09:59 AM (cfDJS)

87 With Hugo, there's always the frame of a rollicking good story, but his insertions reek of padding and a sense that, by Jove, he's done all this research and not one comma of it's going to waste. Posted by: Lizzie at December 15, 2013 01:59 PM (cfDJS) It was a free Kindle version and I did wonder if a different translation would be an improvement (but not enough to find out). Whatever the cause, he came across as preachy on pretty much every topic. Oddly, I didn't mind the Waterloo battle part as much as some of the others (like extolling China's use of human waste as fertilizer which we now know causes e. coli) but that might be due to having read Georgette Heyer's Infamous Army so that much of the material was familiar.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 10:17 AM (GDulk)

88 With the centennial of the Great War approaching, can any morons recommend any books on it?

Posted by: extra at December 15, 2013 11:33 AM (XTlIj)

Depends on what you are trying to understand. Books that place it in long-term historical context are different from books that deal with the diplomatic maneuvering that immediately preceded the war or books that narrate the progress of the war itself. Here is a short list that includes titles from each category:

The Long Fuse Laurence LaFore
July 1914 Sean McMeekin
The Great War Cyril Falls
A History of the Great War John Buchan
The Eastern Front 1914-1917 Norman Stone
The World Crisis Winston Churchill

I specifically do not recommend Tuchman's Guns of August. She was a pretty good writer, but more of a simple narrator than a good historian and gets a lot of the backstory wrong. Churchill was an excellent writer, but actually participated in the events, so he is more of an entertaining read than an unbiased and reliable analyst.

Posted by: HTL at December 15, 2013 10:41 AM (hhBXE)

89 Read Tom Clancy's newest -- "Command Authority." IMHO, much better than many of his recent books -- until the last 50 pages or so. A bit of shark jumping in the end. First 650 or so pages rip right along. Last bit is mildly disappointing, but overall it is good. Got it from the library because I wasn't sure it would be worthwhile. I'd actually recommend it for purchase by techno thriller fans.

Posted by: Doug at December 15, 2013 10:48 AM (zTUQR)

90 Posted by: HTL at December 15, 2013 02:41 PM (hhBXE) Are Churchill's WWI books easier reading than the WWII ones? I found those to be a horrible slog (couldn't finish Gathering Storm, but that may be due to reading it while waiting for John's radiation therapy), which was disappointing since I'd heard so many of his one-line zingers that I had expected his books to be similar.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 10:50 AM (GDulk)

91 A World War I book I read a couple of years ago is "The Marne, 1914" by Holger H. Herwig. It draws in part on German records that until the fall of the Iron Curtain were unavailable to Western researchers. It covers much of the same ground as Tuchman but is focused more on the military campaign. At the moment, at least, I'm particularly interested in the opening months of the war, when it was still a war of maneuver before the trench lines solidified. There are two new books about the origins of the war which are getting good reviews: "July 1914" and "The Sleepwalkers", but I have not read them yet.

Posted by: rickl at December 15, 2013 10:53 AM (sdi6R)

92 Latest reads: Gravity Kills and A Man Disrupted by Steve Rzasa and Vox Day, Highway to Tartarus by Holly Chism and the last Westerly Gales book Into Uncharted Seas by E.C. Williams. All pretty good books, but Tartarus can get confusing to those of us who aren't experts on Greek and Norse gods and their interrelations.

Currently reading A Throne of Bones by Vox Day, not far into it but good so far. Up next is Wardogs Coin and The Last Witchking, also by Vox Day in the same 'verse as Throne of Bones, and The Irrational Atheist, also by Vox Day. Kind of on a Vox Day kick lately I guess.

Vox Day has the distinction of being the only writer to be thrown out of the SFWA, so he has that going for him.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 15, 2013 11:08 AM (yh0zB)

93 Vox Day has the distinction of being the only writer to be thrown out of the SFWA, so he has that going for him. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 15, 2013 03:08 PM (yh0zB) What's the story on that?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 11:13 AM (GDulk)

94 Are Churchill's WWI books easier reading than the WWII ones?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 02:50 PM (GDulk)

I would say they are very similar. I guess Churchill's writing style is an acquired taste (at least to a modern audience...back in the day he was quite a popular author).

On the bright side, the WWI book is shorter. Even the "special edition director's cut" only ran to five volumes.

Posted by: HTL at December 15, 2013 11:15 AM (hhBXE)

95 Vox Day got booted for being an asshole. Of course they can't boot people just for being assholes, or else Pohl (at least) would have gotten the shoe decades ago. So the SFWA Fascists made up some shit. I do believe Vox Day would have a strong legal case, if we had an independent and serious legal system.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo says, free toby at December 15, 2013 11:19 AM (iQxYV)

96 There are two new books about the origins of the war which are getting good reviews: "July 1914" and "The Sleepwalkers", but I have not read them yet.

Posted by: rickl at December 15, 2013 02:53 PM (sdi6R)

I have not read The Sleepwalkers yet, but it is on my list. July 1914 is excellent, however, and contains significant details that other histories on the subject have either overlooked, glossed over or deliberately ignored.

Posted by: HTL at December 15, 2013 11:23 AM (hhBXE)

97 What's the story on that?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 15, 2013 03:13 PM (GDulk)

He's a dick. He got into some big argument with the PTB at SFWA and they booted him. I don't know what the argument was over.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 15, 2013 11:25 AM (yh0zB)

98 HTL: Do you have any suggestions for books that fill the gap between the end of the Marne campaign to the end of the year?

Posted by: rickl at December 15, 2013 11:31 AM (sdi6R)

99 He's a dick. He got into some big argument with the PTB at SFWA and they booted him. I don't know what the argument was over.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 15, 2013 03:25 PM (yh0zB)

According to Wiki he made some racist statements.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at December 15, 2013 11:33 AM (T2V/1)

100 40 i noticed on Amazon that there were sequels to the novel version. Has any moron out there read them? I read and enjoyed Fall of Colossus. It sets things up for a third "out of the frying pan and into the fire" sequel, but I've never encountered it (don't even know if it was written).

Posted by: Anachronda at December 15, 2013 11:43 AM (U82Km)

101 HTL: Do you have any suggestions for books that fill the gap between the end of the Marne campaign to the end of the year?

Posted by: rickl at December 15, 2013 03:31 PM (sdi6R)

In the west that period is known as "The Race to the Sea", which culminated in the First Battle of Ypres. It does get a mention in most general histories (Falls, Buchan), and in Buchan gets more attention than most, but that's because he wrote 8 volumes and had a lot of space to fill. He is also a less than neutral observer, but at least covers all of the battles. There is a book about 1st Ypres by Ian Beckett which I have not read, but it probably has more detail about this period than any other. The Osprey book on 1st Ypres is also probably pretty good.

For the east that period is covered in The Eastern Front by Stone, and since that is almost the only history that covers the eastern front in any detail at all, that's going to be about it.

Posted by: HTL at December 15, 2013 12:08 PM (hhBXE)

102 WHEN HARLIE WAS ONE by David Gerrold is a pretty decent A. I. novel. Gerrold writes a good stick but I am *still* waiting for the fifth novel in the "Chtorr" series. Going on two decades now...

Posted by: Jafo at December 15, 2013 12:41 PM (FIvA6)

103 In response to queries about the Colossus novels: There was a third book called "Colossus and the Crab." The mini-lot summary at Amazon says: "In all his illustrious career, Charles Forbin has never faced a challenge as awe-inspiring, and as hopeless! As the man who mediates between Colossus, the Super Computer, and the rest of humanity, Forbin holds the key to Earth's fate. Now he has voluntarily used his power to switch off the machine, and thus turned over mastery of the planet to alien invaders. Will Forbin turn out to be the universal Judas, or can he prevent these strange beings from taking their horrendous tribute? The invaders are wise beyond mankind's conception, and Forbin meets his match in this thrilling third book in the Colossus series."

Posted by: Kermit the Forg at December 15, 2013 03:23 PM (tsz5J)

104 Barrat comes to the same conclusion as several dozen others have in the past. Save yourself the time and just watch the last 10min of `I Robot`. Same punch line.

Posted by: JohnMc at December 15, 2013 04:09 PM (RHBWt)

105 Another take on the Vox Day kerfuffle: http://tinyurl.com/n4f9t4w If you are interested the comments are especially good.

Posted by: former lurker at December 15, 2013 07:32 PM (1rVuA)

106 If we have a super human AI, why would we need government? I also think this is the first question the AI will ask.

Posted by: George at December 16, 2013 08:35 AM (rdFOT)

107 The idea of an AI foom is completely wrong. The overpowering fact about all AI right now is how very, very stupid it all is.

Posted by: Rollory at December 18, 2013 01:30 PM (iWqAg)

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