Ace of Spades HQ

May 03, 2013

Teh Krugman Swerves Into A Point On The Oregon Medicaid Study
— andy

... of course, it wasn't one he intended to make.

Courtesy of Phillip Klein, who Ace also linked in today's earlier post on the Oregon Medicaid study, comes this excellent pummeling of Former Enron Adviser Paul Krugman (emphasis added):

In attempt to mock conservativesÂ’ reaction to the landmark study finding that Medicaid coverage did not improve physical health outcomes, Paul Krugman snarks that Â“Fire Insurance is Worthless! After all, thereÂ’s no evidence that it prevents fires.Â” Actually, fire insurance would be a pretty good model for health insurance.

Bingo!

Bing-f'n-o!

As Klein notes, conservative health reform plans have, for years, sought to make health insurance more like a real insurance product and less like a healthcare prepayment plan. This is why we've favored tax-preferred health savings accounts (HSAs) coupled with high-deductible catastrophic health insurance plans.

As Klein states,

Free market health care policy analysts have long argued for a catastrophic approach to health insurance. If health insurance were like other types of insurance, it would protect beneficiaries against financial strain due to unexpected medical expenses, but it wouldnÂ’t cover routine costs. Monthly premiums would be much lower in this case and individuals could put money in health savings accounts to pay for qualified medical expenses.
If anything, the findings in the Oregon study make the case for such an approach much stronger. ...

Why yes. Yes they do.

But leftists like Krugman have long played a cutesy little game where they conflate comprehensive health insurance coverage with actual healthcare services as if the two things are the same.

They are not.

The dollar one-coverage "health insurance" product that the Krugmans of the world have been advocating for interferes with the market pricing mechanism for health care services. Since the consumer of healthcare doesn't bear the cost of providing it, this lack of transparent pricing drives costs ever higher without being bounded by anything even approaching a cost/benefit approach to the services being consumed.

Meanwhile, the market pricing mechanisms for elective healthcare services like cosmetic surgery and Lasik, where health insurance isn't involved and the consumer has a cost/benefit decision to make, work to produce the right quantity and quality of these services at appropriate prices.

Why, it's almost like they're being guided by an invisible hand or something. Almost.

So, to counteract the forces of Econ 101,

Unfortunately, President ObamaÂ’s national health care law takes the opposite approach. Starting next year, Americans will be mandated not just to obtain health insurance, but to obtain insurance thatÂ’s comprehensive enough to meet the specifications of the federal government.

Of course. Of. Course.

Posted by: andy at 12:30 PM | Comments (74)
Post contains 452 words, total size 3 kb.

1 "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it's free".
- the Peej

Posted by: navybrat at May 03, 2013 12:32 PM (2ZO++)

2 I like to imagine Paul Krugman being slowly filleted by harpies wielding Samurai swords.

...That's just me.

...Your Mileage May Vary

Posted by: Slapweasel at May 03, 2013 12:34 PM (7gwGw)

3 If you like your current $100/mo. catastrophic plan, well you're just a selfish bastard aren't you!

Posted by: Up With People! at May 03, 2013 12:35 PM (FmFB3)

4 Kludgeman.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 03, 2013 12:35 PM (XYSwB)

5 Health insurance used to be real insurance and not what we have today. Even as late as the Seventies, most people wrote a check when they went to the doctor. It was only after unions started negotiating for 100% coverage that people began to believe they shouldn't have to pay anything for medical care. That change in attitude is biting us in the ass now.

Posted by: RS at May 03, 2013 12:36 PM (YAGV/)

6 We're still pretending this is important? Christ, how long will this have to go on? Once "HappyBarry PlayTime In America" is over we can go back to being adults, right? Only idiots will suffer from this nonsense. And idiots always suffer. So...

Posted by: occam's brassiere at May 03, 2013 12:37 PM (65Fed)

7 So, if I burn my house down, I can haz good Obamacare? If I'm up-to-date with my "protection money", that is?
-You Don't Say?

*all in*

Posted by: Slapweasel at May 03, 2013 12:38 PM (7gwGw)

8 Krugman. What a fucking joke he is.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 03, 2013 12:38 PM (8ZskC)

9 Employer based health insurance is the product of democrat price and wage freezing laws in the past. Employers couldn't raise wages so they started adding things like free health insurance to attract good employees.

Posted by: Up With People! at May 03, 2013 12:39 PM (FmFB3)

10 Krugman: the ultimate troll.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 03, 2013 12:39 PM (XYSwB)

11
File this under: That's crazy talk, so shut up, now.

Deval Patrick reaches new low, which is pretty low for a midget such as himself.

We have a state rep up here, Shauan OConnell, who has [literally] single-handedly led the fight to expose the EBT card fraud. Deval Patrick quickly sealed he records of the bombers, as you might have heard.

OConnell isn't giving up, though. She received info from someone inside the Patrick admin. Deval Patrick comes out and slanders O'Connell: Shauna O'Connell is known to make things up.

That's bullshit and pure libel.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 03, 2013 12:39 PM (DlaLh)

12 In order to jump start the economy, we need to employ gang members to drive around (in govt provided Chevy volts) and break factory windows. By putting money in the hands of otherwise unemployed gang members, we get a 1.25 return on each dollar. The window replacements provide an even greater modifier.

Posted by: wooga at May 03, 2013 12:40 PM (CbCus)

13 I always enjoy this economists take on Paul Krugman: "Krugman in wonderland" http://krugman-in-wonderland.blogspot.com/

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 03, 2013 12:40 PM (INYkK)

14 None of this is going to be fixed. It's going to groan under the weight of Obamacare and skyrocketing costs. The real question is: Single-payer or collapse?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at May 03, 2013 12:41 PM (xAtAj)

15 We're going to need a bigger boat....

Posted by: Chief Brody 1975 at May 03, 2013 12:42 PM (/jHWN)

"The real question is: Single-payer or collapse?"

Why not BOTH!

Posted by: Jaws at May 03, 2013 12:42 PM (4I3Uo)

17 So I can buy home insurance after my house burns down and then get a new house? Stellar!

Posted by: Dang at May 03, 2013 12:43 PM (R18D0)

18 I remember when "insurance" meant, just plain ol' insurance. Who decided that "pre-existing conditions" magically turned things into ..."PAY FOR MY SHIT. ALL MY SHIT. I GAVE YOU FIVE BUCKS YESTERDAY, GURNEY-HOP!"

Posted by: Slapweasel at May 03, 2013 12:43 PM (7gwGw)

19 Look the central issue here is the socialist mantra that Healthcare is a natural right. The proles buy into this almost to a man, it *sounds* so good doesn't it. But it's false and only when you understand that will you be able to see how wrong the existing systems are. The socialists make up these "rights" to further their agenda. This also weakens any protections on the natural rights that we do enjoy - a double edged sword. It's not a right, and if you want it you have to pay for it. That's right, that means get a fucking job, and if you don't get a job then you will be screwed if you break your arm. Oh and by the way you don't have a right to eat at Ruth's Chris either. The socialists just will not accept that, nothing we do or say will make them. It's the proles who have to be educated, and that's probably impossible on the large scale. We are well and truly fucked.

Posted by: BlearyTruth at May 03, 2013 12:43 PM (sYLzD)

20 If it's going to go to single payer I hope it goes to it quickly. I have a world record in medical expenses to try and set.

Posted by: Up With People! at May 03, 2013 12:44 PM (FmFB3)

all I know is that the health coverage for my kid, which used to be pretty much everything, not a dime out of pocket, thanks to the fact his father works at a rather large technology company, now seems to be costing me a lot of up front money every time I have to take him to the doctor or dentist. Oh, and apparently the doctor and dentist's office both overcharged me for the services provided because in theory the insurance company had negotiated a fee for what they or the people they cover would pay. But, that is not what I was charged.

If I was paying out of pocket--not using the supposed "insurance negotiated" fee scale, it would have cost me straight up less money.

yeah, this universal health insurance is working just dandy.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at May 03, 2013 12:44 PM (RZ8pf)

this excellent pummeling of Former Enron Adviser Paul Krugman

Nice.

Posted by: AoSHQ Stylebook at May 03, 2013 12:44 PM (evdj2)

23
I love it when people give that whore Krugman a back handed bitch slap from the invisible pimp hand.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 03, 2013 12:45 PM (jKWYf)

24 My cheap ass fire insurer doesn't even pay for run-of-the-mill preventative measures like landscaping and floor joist moisture testing. Fucking bullshit insurance companies.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 03, 2013 12:45 PM (+lsX1)

25 The real question is: Single-payer or collapse?

Posted by: HoboJerky

I'm thinking 'collapse' simply because if the money doesn't exist at this point, it won't exist when the whole thing goes catawumpus.

Although I think they may opt for the UK fusterclark: import crappy doctors from India, Paki, and other 3rd world locales for minimum wage care.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at May 03, 2013 12:45 PM (Yr6sH)

26 "Why, it's almost like they're being guided by an invisible hand or something. Almost." De-lurking to admire the grade-A snark. I wish I could think fast enough to come up with material like this when confronted with prog-tards and LIVs...

Posted by: ycrt at May 03, 2013 12:45 PM (OpG/P)

27 3000% is a lot of savings

Posted by: Garrett at May 03, 2013 12:46 PM (8Bcc1)

28 I TOLD YOU TO PAY FOR MY RUBBERS TOO, WET-NURSE!

Posted by: Occupy Your Wallet at May 03, 2013 12:46 PM (7gwGw)

or, and this was the best part, if I had the credit card for health insurance that my ex-husband was given. He is reluctant to part with said credit card because it magically just deducts money straight from his paycheck. And while he isn't saying he doesn't trust me, well, he kind of is saying he doesn't trust me because he won't give it to me.

Like I'd rack up a bunch of shoe purchases or something. Geesh.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at May 03, 2013 12:48 PM (RZ8pf)

30 "You have city hands, Mr. Hooper. You been countin' money all your life."

Posted by: Quint 1975 at May 03, 2013 12:48 PM (/jHWN)

31 Once "HappyBarry PlayTime In America" is over we can go back to being adults, right? ===== Unfortunately, no. Getting rid of Obama is just one step. "The problem is not that Obama is the Prince of Fools; it is that so many fools want him to be their prince." It's going to be a long haul.

Posted by: fluffy, ray of fucking sunshine at May 03, 2013 12:49 PM (hL8OS)

32 At least fire insurance doesn't have a panel decide which people get rescued from which bedrooms during a fire.

Posted by: Roy at May 03, 2013 12:49 PM (VndSC)

33 I got disability insurance years ago and it was really cheap to start out with. After a few years the rate jump up like crazy and I called to ask why. The government mandated they HAD to cover psychiatric stuff. I said I didn't want it and they said it wasn't an option to decline that coverage. So I got stuck buying something I didn't want , or need, because the government was looking out for the little guy with mental issues.

Posted by: Dang at May 03, 2013 12:50 PM (R18D0)

34 Free shit is gonna be the downfall of us all

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 03, 2013 12:50 PM (jE38p)

35 De-lurking to admire the grade-A snark. I wish I could think fast enough to come up with material like this when confronted with prog-tards and LIVs...

Keep hanging around here, and keep commenting. The give and take here is good practice for the real world.

And by "give and take" I mean utterly merciless bashing of stupidity.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at May 03, 2013 12:51 PM (xKC/c)

36 Actually compare it to car insurance, which covers accidents, verses an optional (or included on upper end cars) which cover everything. Could you image what car insurance would cost with the Obamacare model?

Posted by: I'm the honey Badger, BITCH! at May 03, 2013 12:51 PM (Wy05x)

37 Paul Krugman...broken clock.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 03, 2013 12:51 PM (jvd3N)

38 "Front, bow. Back, stern. If ya don't get it right, squirt, I throw your ass out the little round window on the side."

Posted by: Quint 1975 at May 03, 2013 12:52 PM (/jHWN)

39 Nothing's going to change until kneecaps start to be challenged.

Posted by: Soona at May 03, 2013 12:52 PM (ymDPi)

40 On a related note: President Obama, in each of his last three State of the Union addresses, spoke urgently of the need to cut through the "red tape" in Washington. But regulatory costs for the American public and business community, it turns out, soared during his first term. A new report by the conservative Heritage Foundation estimates that annual regulatory costs increased during Obama's first four years by nearly $70 billion -- with more regulations in store for term two. "While historical records are incomplete, that magnitude of regulation is likely unmatched by any administration in the nation's history," the report said.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 03, 2013 12:52 PM (jE38p)

41 but to obtain insurance thatÂ’s comprehensive enough to meet the specifications of the federal government I made the comparison to computers a while back (see link in name for your federally-approved state-exchange laptop): The problem isnÂ’t just about cutting costs. ItÂ’s about advancing the field of medicine. Amazing innovations happen when there is an incentive to cut costs imposed by the end-user. We wouldnÂ’t have the computers we do today if it werenÂ’t for companies like Radio Shack on one end and AppleÂ’s Steve Wozniak on the other trying to make computers for people who were buying on their own budget. Remember the huge luggable portables of the eighties? If we bought our computers like we do our health care, instead of going to the computer store and choosing what we want, we would have a computer plan from our employer. Our employer would hire the purchaser, who would be answerable to our employer, not to us. We would tell our employer-funded purchaser that we needed a portable computer. The purchaser would go down a checklist of government-mandated features that all computers must have and then tack Â“portableÂ” onto the list. And the result would be a computer as big as a suitcase costing thousands of dollars. Where is the incentive to cut down that computer in this scenario? Where is the incentive to innovate? Sure, the person who ultimately gets the computer would want one thatÂ’s easier to carry. But theyÂ’re not paying for it. And then when some conservative suggests that people ought to buy their own computers, weÂ’d complain that the average family canÂ’t afford thousands of dollars.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at May 03, 2013 12:52 PM (QF8uk)

42 Will Fire Insurance keep the deer from eating my hostas? If so, I'm in.

Posted by: olddog in mo at May 03, 2013 12:52 PM (A9na/)

43 At the food pantry today, a very sad young woman who had a roomate who took off without paying her for the rent, and stole all of her food from her freezer and pantry, as well as cosmetics and clothes and other things.

She wastrying to get some food (I also sent her over to the Salvation Army after I filed her bag) and she said she had applied to St Vincent de Paul for rent help because she had been transferred to another store and her hours had been cut from 40 to 16.

I said, "It's the healthcare law, isn't it?"

She said it was.

I sai, "I am so sorry. This is not anything like they promised. In fact, it seems the exact opposite. You are not the only one. I hope things get better."

Posted by: Miss Marple at May 03, 2013 12:53 PM (GoIUi)

44 My cheap ass fire insurer refuses to buy me new garden hoses. Hello! I could put out a fire with a new hose and it would save like a shitload of money.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 03, 2013 12:54 PM (+lsX1)

45 Krugman is a punk ass bitch that sucks cock by choice.

Posted by: © Sponge at May 03, 2013 12:54 PM (xmcEQ)

46 "It's so fucked up, only single payer will do."

- President Whoever, 2018

Posted by: occam's brassiere at May 03, 2013 12:55 PM (65Fed)

Every other country that has National Socialized Healthcare...has put Caps on medical lawsuits.

Canada has Caps on medical lawsuits, for example.

That's why drugs are cheaper, and healthcare costs are cheaper.

If Barky's long term plan is total Socialized Healthcare...then, Caps on lawsuits will be coming here as well.

They will have to.

Of course, it would've made more sense to just go with Caps on medical lawsuits in the first place.

And skip the Socialized Healthcare part.

Posted by: wheatie at May 03, 2013 12:56 PM (3B3wv)

48 If a former Enron adviser is telling me that prison healthcare is a swell deal should I be alarmed?

Posted by: Fritz at May 03, 2013 12:56 PM (G9Mmf)

49 My cheap ass fire insurer refuses to replace my son's car even though it's a piece of shit fire hazard and he parks it right in front of our house. Hey idiots, a new car is a lot cheaper than a whole house!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 03, 2013 12:57 PM (+lsX1)

50 "It's so fucked up, only single payer will do."

- President Whoever, 2018
Posted by: occam's brassiere

Maybe someone will keep track of how many people Obama kills with this clusterfuck.

Posted by: Dang at May 03, 2013 12:57 PM (R18D0)

51 As I said in the other thread about this. Ocare's only purpose is to destroy America's economy and bring more people under government control.

Posted by: Soona at May 03, 2013 12:57 PM (ymDPi)

52 I've had home owners insurance for 15years, have never used it. It only costs 600.00 a year. If I need to replace a window or repair the roof, I don't put in a claim. Now if the 100ft pines around my house decided to take out my bedroom and torture chamber then I'm on the phone with my agent in an instant.

Duh.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 03, 2013 12:57 PM (jvd3N)

53 Okay, here's my plan: Government-provided schooling is abolished. Instead, all 17-year-olds are given a test to see that they have acquired the knowledge and skills necessary to support themselves. If they fail the test, they and their parents take a tour of the soylent green factory.

You can send my Nobel check (keep the shitty-looking medal) c/o Gen. Del., Hartsel, CO.

Posted by: Aloha Akhbar - philosophunculist jihad at May 03, 2013 12:57 PM (/lWM8)

54 All trolls are Krugman.

Posted by: © Sponge at May 03, 2013 12:58 PM (xmcEQ)

55 Now if the 100ft pines around my house decided to take out my bedroom and torture chamber

Is this one room or two?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at May 03, 2013 01:00 PM (/kI1Q)

56 Unfrozen Krugman Columnist finds your free-market economy strange and confusing...

Posted by: zsasz at May 03, 2013 01:00 PM (MMC8r)

57 If Barky's long term plan is total Socialized Healthcare...then, Caps on lawsuits will be coming here as well.
They will have to.

Of course, it would've made more sense to just go with Caps on medicallawsuits in the first place.
And skip the Socialized Healthcare part.

Posted by: wheatie at May 03, 2013 04:56 PM (3B3wv)

------------------------------------------

It was a point that Dear Leader emphatically made to a room full of physicians leading up to the Ocare vote: "Tort laws will NOT be affected by this. They will remain the same".

Posted by: Soona at May 03, 2013 01:02 PM (ymDPi)

58 "The real question is: Single-payer or collapse?" Single-payer. THEN collapse.

Posted by: zsasz at May 03, 2013 01:02 PM (MMC8r)

51 As I said in the other thread about this. Ocare's only purpose is to destroy America's economy and bring more people under government control.

Yep.

All we needed were a few simple reforms.

But Barky and the Dems preyed on the situation, to pass a control freak bill that takes over complete control of our lives.

Posted by: wheatie at May 03, 2013 01:03 PM (3B3wv)

60 Wait, if the government doesn't control people's healthcare decisions, then who will condemn old people, the handicapped, and newborns to ~~death~~ the Liverpool Care Pathway?

Posted by: Der Todaußchuß des Obama at May 03, 2013 01:03 PM (XvHmy)

61 My cheap ass fire insurer refuses to pay for good quality fireworks even though I very patiently explained that the cheap shit I buy is way more dangerous.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at May 03, 2013 01:03 PM (+lsX1)

62 Obamacare supposedly bans HSA with high deductible...but my HSA with high deductive from Kaiser is supposedly complying with Obamcare. Though it is closed to any new members. Am I grandfathered in?

Posted by: sexypig at May 03, 2013 01:04 PM (dZQh7)

63 Mare loves Andy...nailed it again, Andy. I have catostrophic insurance now, high deductible, high premiums $489/month, 2 adults, no pre-existing conditions, excellent health and we expect our costs to soar. Self employed. Makes you juggle the decision to gamble on your health like all the other assholes. Seriously, we've never spent a penny of the insurers money.

Posted by: Mare at May 03, 2013 01:06 PM (8BXgk)

64 If I need to replace a window or repair the roof, I don't put in a claim. Now if the 100ft pines around my house decided to take out my bedroom and torture chamber then I'm on the phone with my agent in an instant.

Duh.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 03, 2013 04:57 PM (jvd3N)

Your policy probably wouldn't cover window replacement or roof repair. A Tornado took the roof off my house. It took me 2 days to get a tarp over my roofless house. Insurance covered the roof but not the insulation inside the house that got wet. It was my "fault" that I didn't cover the house with billboard sized tarps to prevent subsequent water damage. Silly me. But at least I had "insurance."

Posted by: olddog in mo at May 03, 2013 01:06 PM (A9na/)

57...It was a point that Dear Leader emphatically made to a room full of physicians leading up to the Ocare vote: "Tort laws will NOT be affected by this. They will remain the same".

Which means that the Caps on medical lawsuits will come later...in separate legislation.

They will *have to* do it.

Every other country has had to...after they implemented National Healthcare.

You can't have people suing government doctors for multi-million-dollar judgments.

Posted by: wheatie at May 03, 2013 01:08 PM (3B3wv)

Actually Fire Insurance does help prevent fires.

In order to be insured, you have to meet certain criteria which includes many fire safety standards.

Posted by: polynikes at May 03, 2013 01:10 PM (m2CN7)

67 In order to be insured, you have to meet certain criteria which includes many fire safety standards. So the possibility of being denied coverage prompts personal responsibility? Hmmm...

Posted by: zsasz at May 03, 2013 01:12 PM (MMC8r)

Posted by: olddog in mo at May 03, 2013 05:06 PM (A9na/)

read your policy. Also if you did everything reasonable to prevent further damage then you could have taken the insurance company to arbitration at no cost to you.

Posted by: polynikes at May 03, 2013 01:12 PM (m2CN7)

69 Am I grandfathered in?

Posted by: sexypig at May 03, 2013 05:04 PM (dZQh7)

Not sure, but Sebellius is going to lauch a TV campaign (tax payer funded) in June to 'splain it to us when it goes into effect in October.

Posted by: olddog in mo at May 03, 2013 01:17 PM (A9na/)

70 Agree with Posted by: polynikes at May 03, 2013 05:10 PM (m2CN7)

Actually, there is some evidence that fire insurance does decrease the both the frequency and severity of fires due to fire related building codes and the ability of the insurer to adjust the premium on a poorly rated property.

The left does not want either of these rational approaches to intrude upon their control on the populace via mandated one size fits all health insurance.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 03, 2013 01:19 PM (Cnqmv)

71 We need fire insurance legislation where you won't be denied coverage due to preexisting conditions.

Posted by: Pual Kurgman at May 03, 2013 01:34 PM (nnkXw)

72 I love it when I get to pay extra to buy fire insurance with the provisions to vacuum the carpets and paint the house.

I love it when I get to pay extra to buy auto insurance with the provisions to change my oil and rotate my tires.

Wait..... I don't do that. Never mind.

Posted by: jc at May 03, 2013 01:44 PM (i8c5b)

73 But this wasn't a health insurance study. It showed that the prepaid services of Medicaid still did not make a health impact for these groups, or at least a negligible one. In other words, these are unhealthy people who don't manage themselves, even when they have meds, and other uninsured people (that is, those not under the Medicaid program), still find a way to get healthcare.

Posted by: holmes at May 03, 2013 01:55 PM (YbDDd)

74 I've always liked being on Medicaid because they don't cover a lot of the treatments I need. I hate going to the doctor. I'm also a big fan of unemployment insurance benefits, because those are a lot better than waking up each morning and going to work.

Posted by: Urban Tribal Democrat Voter at May 03, 2013 03:04 PM (pmsMR)

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