Ace of Spades HQ

June 06, 2013

The Apple E-Book Trial, Day Three
— Ace

A little background.

People (including myself) have asked why the price of an ebook is so high, and and why it's gone up the past few years. When Kindle first came out, ebooks were super-cheap. Now they're not.

This trial is about that.

Apple proposed, and negotiated with the five biggest publishing houses, a different pricing model specifically intended to raise the price of e-books.

Previous to this agreement, e-books had been sold outright to retailers, as goods intended for resale usually are. That is, Manufacturer X sells a Widget to Retailer Y for $10. Retailer Y now owns the Widget outright, and may sell it for any price it likes, whether for $20, or for $10.50, or even for $6, if it wants to sell it at a loss (or must sell it at a loss, due to poor sales).

This is why Amazon usually offers such low prices (or had previously offered such low prices). They buy books from the publishers at the wholesale price. Usually a retailer would add, I don't know, a 50% markup. Instead, Amazon prices at a much smaller markup (maybe 5%), and sometimes even at cost and sometimes even at a loss. I suppose they do the latter with things like the last Harry Potter book, as a loss-leader to essentially buy new customers by offering them a price they can't refuse.

Now the publishing houses don't like this. Why, I'm not sure, as they're still getting the price that they themselves set for their wares. But for some reason, especially with e-books, they felt the low prices were threatening in some way. Perhaps they felt the low prices of e-books would threaten their main business of selling physical books.

Apple proposed a different pricing scheme: The publishing houses would not sell the book to Amazon, but rather permit Amazon to act as the agents of sale. Now, in this "Agency model," the publisher sets the price of the book, and then gives Amazon an "agent's fee" of 30% for each sale.

Now Amazon can no longer set the price, as the publisher still owns the book until the moment of sale to the customer, at which point 70% of the publisher's price goes to the publisher and 30% goes to Amazon.

So, Old Model: We sell a book to Amazon for $8, expecting them to charge something like $14. But they don't charge $14; they only charge $9. Amazon decides to make less money per sale in an effort to expand its business, and for some reason the publishers don't like this.

Thus the New Model: The publisher sets the price at $14, period. Amazon cannot raise or lower the price because it doesn't own the book; it merely has an agent's right to sell it at that quoted price. Now the book sells for $14, as it must. 70% to the publisher, 30% to Amazon.

This is why Amazon has been so insistent about saying "This price has been set by the publisher" regarding all those books with inflated prices.

Now, the trial against Apple isn't about a new pricing model, per se; it's about the Bigs of the Industry getting together to mutually agree to set prices, using the Agency Model as the vehicle for doing so -- that is, it's about price-fixing by major players in the industry.

The five publishing houses implicated in this scheme have all settled independently with the government. For some reason, no article gives me a straight answer as to whether this means the agency model is retired, or what.

I think the agency model is not retired, as I just looked up Dan Brown's lame new book and it costs $13 and carries the advisory, "This price was set by the publisher." I think then all they agreed to do is not insist on actual price fixing (they had wanted to escalate the retail price of books between $13 and $15).

So the US government is suing people and extracting agreements and yet not undoing the Agency Model scheme that raised prices.

Apple insists it's done nothing wrong. Furthermore, their big trial strategy is to put Amazon on trial, claiming Amazon illegally sought to fix prices itself (albeit at a low level). This claim seems to concern Amazon negotiating for best-offered prices (a Most Favored Nation clause, that is, whatever the lowest price is that you offer to any other seller, you offer to Amazon). I'm not sure why this fairly-common clause constitutes price fixing or illegal behavior; I suppose it might be that when a company has near-monopoly position, things they had been permitted to do as non-monopolists become, by law, illegal. Whatever the theory, that's Apple's story and they're sticking to it.

Apple also insists that they're going to embarrass Amazon by having evidence introduced that Amazon itself thinks that its Kindle format is inferior to Apple's format. The supposed legal consequence of this is to prove that Apple needs to have higher prices to support its supposedly-superior format, but that seems absurd; this is rote, mostly automated coding. How many times does a human hand enter the process of turning a computer file of a manuscript into an ebook? A tweak here and there, a read-through; but it's not like there's a lot of work going into this process.

Yes, the iPad has a neat "turning the virtual page" animation when you turn the virtual page. But this is the product of software coded into the iPad -- it's not something that's coded into each and every new book. There's no justification for charging more per book for a cute bit of code you bought once with the iPad.

The real point of this, it seems to me, is for Apple to crow that "Even Amazon thinks the Kindle sucks!"

Which it doesn't, by the way. If I wanted an iPad I'd've bought an iPad. But Apple seems to think it can win some PR by trash-talking the Kindle at a trial about its own behavior.

Sorry to be so biased here. All I know is that one company wants to sell me a book for $8.67 and another company has arranged it so that it is impossible for anyone to sell me the same book for less than $12.99. And no, the iPad's page-turning animation isn't worth $4.32 per book to me.

The trial will last about three weeks, it's expected.

Posted by: Ace at 11:00 AM | Comments (166)
Post contains 1084 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Ace, we are all below planning for the camps and you distract with a new post? We need to plan, dude.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, radicalized Redneck Queen at June 06, 2013 11:03 AM (baL2B)

2 No worries Ace. When all the new and higher taxes on any shit sold on the intertubes hits all will be well.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2013 11:06 AM (/tc03)

3 Asked: People (including myself) have asked why the price of an ebook is so high, and and why it's gone up the past few years.

Answered: "Corporations are people, my friend."

Posted by: Mitt Romney at June 06, 2013 11:07 AM (MACNq)

4 heh heh... simpletons! You can buy these " apple books" all you want to, but they'll be stripped from you at camp and given to our citizens in Cleveland...

Posted by: NSA Camp Coordinator at June 06, 2013 11:07 AM (/jHWN)

5 The trial will last about three weeks at which point they'll be found guilty.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:07 AM (CRyse)

6 I hate Apple. Okay, I'm typing this on an iPad, but all my ebook dollars are going to Kindle and Kindle only.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 06, 2013 11:07 AM (dh83Q)

7 But will they publish my novel?

Posted by: Body Builder at June 06, 2013 11:07 AM (DrC22)

8 So if Amazon wins this dealio then ebook prices will finally reflect the real value of ebooks?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 06, 2013 11:08 AM (dh83Q)

9
Apple dies at the end of the movie?

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:08 AM (Fely/)

10 at which point they'll be found guilty.>>

Not so quick, let me check the donor amount$ to dems first.

Posted by: Judge at June 06, 2013 11:09 AM (wrS2o)

11 I'm waiting for Apple to get bitch-slapped again in the courts. I switched to an e-reader because of the lower pricing, and the next thing you know, amazon had to raise the pricing of new releases to prop up the brick and mortar sales of hardback books.

Posted by: no good deed at June 06, 2013 11:09 AM (mjR67)

Speaking of trials, Zimmerman picked the wrong lawyer.

Low keyed, unwilling to seize on the "moments" that present themselves during testimony, someone who would be far better qualified to represent a guilty murderer as opposed to an obviously innocent victim of racial politics.

Where is the silver belt-buckled, Stetson wearing trial lawyer who could tell the court and the public who the villian is?

Oh great, now Zimmerman's genius lawyer is interviewing an audio expert they found. Too bad the cocksucker doesn't speak english.

Plus, would someone tell Megan Kelly at FOX to spend about 3 minutes learning the facts of this case? Fucking aggravating to have someone on the right reporting who doesn't know the first thing about it.

Posted by: jwest at June 06, 2013 11:09 AM (u2a4R)

13 Ace, you're bringing your Kindle to the camp?!?!

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 11:09 AM (GQ8sn)

14 The really funny part is

The publishers would probably sell more ebooks if the prices were lower

shocking, I know. everyone has figured it out but them

Posted by: Gaff at June 06, 2013 11:10 AM (jPS2y)

15 A Moron, a duck and Bronco Bama walk into a bar. ... and the moron says, yeah, I'm just testing out this apple E-book for a few days..

Posted by: Yip at June 06, 2013 11:10 AM (/jHWN)

16 Stories like this are why I like that many e-readers have the option to read any PDF file you feed it, not just the mass-marketed ones sold by the various retailers and e-tailers.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:10 AM (zA7Zp)

@11

they always tell you how much you saved though.......

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 11:10 AM (jJA/4)

18 How many times does a human hand enter the process of turning a computer file of a manuscript into an ebook? A tweak here and there, a read-through; but it's not like there's a lot of work going into this process. I have been told by people who are not me that calibre is a helluva thing.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (VtjlW)

19 I ate an apple once. It didn't turn out well for me.

Posted by: Adam at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (MnSla)

20 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (/PCJa)

21 Discount bookstores have followed this model since, well, the creation of books for sale to the public.

Wanna pay full pop -- or a premium -- for a book? There are stores that will do that, too.

So you can pay the $7.99 on the cover, or $5.99. Or, I suppose, $10.99 at a hoity-toity store.

Or you can wait a couple months and buy a "used" copy for two bucks.

Since I rely on printed books, I'm not too perturbed about prices for Kindle (or any other e-reader) books.

What I am perturbed about is the Choom Boy regime's unrelenting assaults on us. I remember reading (in a printed-on-paper book) about the rights guaranteed us by the Constitution. President Historic FirstÂ© and his co-conspirators are wiping out our rights by the day, and it won't be long before we can't read anything but the lyrics to "Barack Obama, mmmmm mmmm mmmmm...."

Posted by: MrScribbler at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (mHrip)

22 >>>So if Amazon wins this dealio then ebook prices will finally reflect the real value of ebooks? no, because whatever settlement was struck with the government by the big 5 publishing houses, the agreement did not include a return to the old model. Book prices are still set by the publisher, at a higher level. I think they've merely agreed they will not seek a specific price-level or such.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (LCRYB)

23
Where is the silver belt-buckled, Stetson wearing trial lawyer who could tell the court and the public who the villian is?

Dead, I think.

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (+oin+)

24 so in other words boycott the books with the new model. or steal them from torrent somewhere. I want a kindle but i'll be damned if i'm going to pay higher prices to a cartel of publishers who won't be around in 20 years time.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (HEa5q)

25 I hate Apple and wish nothing but suffering upon them. They no longer innovate they just sue everybody into the dirt. Fuck Apple. Control freak, left-wing fucktards.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 06, 2013 11:11 AM (ZPrif)

26 Below cost? I thought there was evidence that Amazon's been pimpin' eBooks as a loss leader for years.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at June 06, 2013 11:12 AM (AJAHg)

27 14 The really funny part is The publishers would probably sell more ebooks if the prices were lower shocking, I know. everyone has figured it out but them --- I don't think they give a shit. They'd rather have control than more money, much like the music industry and other groups. They're too stuck on the existing distribution methods to break out of them because a new format obliterated the need for them.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:12 AM (zA7Zp)

28 Let's get back to talking about camp..

Posted by: Yip at June 06, 2013 11:12 AM (/jHWN)

I despise Apple and always have. Hipster douchebags.

Fuck Ebooks, when they cost more than a hard copy whats the point. You cant wipe your ass with the pages of an Ebook. ( that and another 1000 uses )

Posted by: The jackhole at June 06, 2013 11:12 AM (nTgAI)

30 High priced books from major publishers are probably the best thing that's ever happened to Amazon's self publishing business.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at June 06, 2013 11:13 AM (+lsX1)

31 One of my favorite things to make libby heads splode is when they talk about fair wages and taxes. For some reason most libs are appleheads. (Yes I like their products too) But I was having a conversation, actually I was being lectured at by a lib. And the topic of fair wages and fair taxation got brought up. I let he rant and then said. You realize you're holding an iPad, right? I then said, you realize it was made by someone in some shitty Chinese sweatshop by a worker that makes pennies by corporation that pays hardly any corporate taxes right? The look on her face was priceless.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2013 11:13 AM (/tc03)

32 I despise Apple and always have. Hipster douchebags.

Fuck Ebooks, when they cost more than a hard copy whats the point. You cant wipe your ass with the pages of an Ebook. ( that and another 1000 uses )

Posted by: The jackhole at June 06, 2013 03:12 PM (nTgAI)

Oh yeah, Steve Jobs: asshole extroadinaire

Posted by: The jackhole at June 06, 2013 11:13 AM (nTgAI)

33 KUM BA YA

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 11:14 AM (jJA/4)

34 >>> I thought there was evidence that Amazon's been pimpin' eBooks as a loss leader for years. which isn't illegal, unless you're declared to be a monopoly. Selling some items below cost to get customers in the door is time-honored tradition. There's nothing wrong with loss-leaders.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 11:14 AM (LCRYB)

35 Oh yeah, Steve Jobs: asshole extroadinaire Posted by: The jackhole

you left out pretentious

Posted by: Yip at June 06, 2013 11:14 AM (/jHWN)

36 This isn't about "price fixing" at all. It's about the fact that major retailers (of all varieties) hate Amazon. Amazon is destroying the "brick and mortar" store for all kinds of things, but especially for books and electronics. I think what Apple is really trying to assert, though, is that the Amazon Kindle is akin to Microsoft bundling IE with Windows (which, if you'll recall, is what those monopoly trials were about). It has exactly as much validity (which is to say: none, but idiots might accept it if you say it fast enough). Oh. And yet one more reason for me never, ever to buy an Apple product. I'm sure Steve Jobs would love to hear that.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:14 AM (/PCJa)

37
woah, some of you are exhibiting irrational hatred!

after all, Apple is not the Baltimore Ravens

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:14 AM (vzLhi)

38 Where is the silver belt-buckled, Stetson wearing trial lawyer who could tell the court and the public who the villian is? Dead, I think. Richard Racehorse Haynes. Yeah.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:15 AM (CRyse)

Two words: "library" and "card"

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 06, 2013 11:15 AM (Z2Bkq)

40 Books should be free!

Posted by: Completely Moobs at June 06, 2013 11:15 AM (rCS6C)

41 Oh yeah, Steve Jobs: asshole extroadinaire Posted by: The jackhole you left out pretentious And: still deader than a door nail.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:15 AM (CRyse)

42 This sounds a bit like the old 'fair trade' laws of the fifties when the producer set the retail price, and *everyone* had to sell the thing at that price.

Then came WalMart, et al.

This is the publishing business trying to stay in business before Amazon puts them out of business. Glenn Reynolds 'Armies of Davids' need to take down Hollywood also.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at June 06, 2013 11:16 AM (xMXFN)

----------

You see something similar in the (non-computer) RPG/Wargaming industry. Instead of e-books, though, its internet discounters undercutting brick and mortar stores. The game publishers get annoyed about it because, for many of them, the biggest way to get your game "noticed" by the public is for people to spot it on the shelf of the store and pick it up to take a closer look at it. That doesn't happen with the internet discounters.

There are other reasons as well. Brick and mortar stores often provide table space for people to play games in. And even the ones that don't will put up bulletin boards for people to put "Opponents Wanted" notices up on. These are all important because people tend to (unsurprisingly) naturally gravitate toward games that other people are playing (it sucks to spend a lot of money on a brand new game, and the miniatures to go with your favorite army in that game, only to discover that you can't find anyone to play that game with). But the "spontaneous sales to shelf browsing" market is still a signficant portion of sales. And it's much more difficult to do on an on-line website than it is in a brick and mortar store.

Posted by: junior at June 06, 2013 11:16 AM (UWFpX)

44 I thought there was evidence that Amazon's been pimpin' eBooks as a loss leader for years.

Not the books, but the readers themselves.

Posted by: no good deed at June 06, 2013 11:16 AM (mjR67)

45 Apple v Amazon is somewhat like the Iraq/Iran war to me. I'd like to see both sides bleed to death in a long drawn out tie.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 06, 2013 11:16 AM (fCkqS)

46 19 I ate an apple once. It didn't turn out well for me. STILL bitching about that, are we? Next you'll start going on and on about losing that rib,

Posted by: Eve at June 06, 2013 11:16 AM (7ObY1)

47
What about that other defense lawyer who wore those suede suits with tassles?

Kn-something??

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:17 AM (39q3n)

48 This is the publishing business trying to stay in business before Amazon puts them out of business. Glenn Reynolds 'Armies of Davids' need to take down Hollywood also. --- I have no issue with the publishing giants being taken out, nor the music distribution giants being taken out. Digital distribution and print-on-demand services like Lulu are taking away a lot of the old barriers to getting books to the marketplace, as well as a lot of the ingrained costs in that old distribution model which should no longer apply.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:18 AM (zA7Zp)

49 I like my iPod Touch, but it's no better than android clones. I also hate the "app" model that requires approval from Apple. Fuck that. Pretty sure they're not gonna approve my Fuck Steve Jobs app.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 06, 2013 11:18 AM (ZPrif)

50 What about that other defense lawyer who wore those suede suits with tassles? Kn-something?? Khaaaaaaaan???

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:18 AM (CRyse)

51 Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 03:11 PM (LCRYB) Well that sucks. On the plus side, it'll make my self-published novel look marginally more attractive yeahhhhhhhhh

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 06, 2013 11:18 AM (dh83Q)

52 >>>What about that other defense lawyer who wore those suede suits with tassles? colorado defense lawyer, wish I could remember his name. I just thought of him like a month ago.... Gerry something.... Gerry Spence, I think.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 11:19 AM (LCRYB)

48
"What about that other defense lawyer who wore those suede suits with tassles?

Kn-something??"

I remember that dude. He had a big yacht off of Louisiana and a Gulfstream. Lot's of liability money.

Posted by: jwest at June 06, 2013 11:19 AM (u2a4R)

54 I still can't see what illegal thing has even been aledged...

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 11:19 AM (SO2Q8)

55 The Pen may be mightier than the sword but the bottle beats the pen in the end.

Posted by: Beto at June 06, 2013 11:20 AM (VWfCN)

# 44 Junior. I agree. Browsing a bookstore exposes readers to books and categories of books that they might otherwise not have considered-- as well as to gift items.

So my guess as to the Publisher's motive is that they fear the popularity of ebooks, and the death of brick and mortar bookstores, will ultimately result in people reading few books. They are probably correct.

Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 11:20 AM (i/s89)

57
yeah, that's it -- Gerry Spence
he was a character

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:20 AM (vzLhi)

58 55 I still can't see what illegal thing has even been aledged... --- Price-fixing. It is illegal collusion for major players in a market to get together and conspire to raise prices.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:21 AM (zA7Zp)

59 I love to read but still prefer hard copy to a $9 e-book. The only ones I've read were downloaded free, just to kill time. So, I go to the library every week.

Prolly $5 and I'd go for it.

Posted by: Jeanne of the North at June 06, 2013 11:21 AM (GdalM)

60 The defense is a typical legal defense: clever, perhaps novel, but really fucking stupid sounding to actual human beings who, unlike lawyers, don't have a psychic connection to Satan.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:21 AM (z4m16)

61 Fuck Ebooks, when they cost more than a hard copy whats the point. You cant wipe your ass with the pages of an Ebook. ( that and another 1000 uses ) Exactly. Here's the deal. Apple already has some pretty sweet deals to offer ebooks (only in their format, natch) for text-books (especially in High Schools and Colleges). They don't want Amazon reaping any of that. So Apple wants to destroy Amazon's method of making money with an ebook: selling for only a very small profit to a much larger number of people. Thus, Apple creates this "agreement" that allows publishers to set their own prices- and the publishers set ebook prices higher than paper book prices. I'm still not sure how/why the publishers think they benefit from this, unless it worked like this (which is possible): An ebook is an electronic file. So let's say I'm Amazon. I don't by "1000 copies" of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in ebook format, instead (again- speculation, here, but it's the only thing I can think of that might make sense), I buy rights to sell HPSS as an ebook for... $1,000,000. Now, I can sell as many copies of that book as I want, at whatever price I want. If I think I'm going to sell 1,000,000 copies, I might sell it for $2.00 (making a 50% profit per copy). If I think I'm going to sell 10,000,000 copies, I might sell it for $0.50 per copy. This hurts the publisher's bottom line (they think) because they think they could have sold those million copies themselves. So instead of making 1,000,000 on the ebooks, they would have made $14,000,000. They don't pause to consider that one of the main drivers behind ebooks (which are good for them in more ways than I can easily recount) is the price.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:21 AM (/PCJa)

62 This isn't about "price fixing" at all. It's about the fact that major retailers (of all varieties) hate Amazon.

They're suing Apple because they hate Amazon?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at June 06, 2013 11:22 AM (ZKzrr)

Gerry Spence is from Wyoming, though...not Colorado.

He's in his 80's now, and not very active anymore.

Posted by: wheatie at June 06, 2013 11:22 AM (ZiafE)

64
wait, Gerry Spence is still alive

brb..

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:22 AM (LVtr+)

65 60 I love to read but still prefer hard copy to a $9 e-book. The only ones I've read were downloaded free, just to kill time. So, I go to the library every week. Prolly $5 and I'd go for it. --- I used to prefer hard copy but, between kids and a lack of storage space, I've been forced to move to ebooks. A copy of the Hunger Games trilogy for $5 that fits on my iPhone is a much better deal than paying three times as much for 1-2 of the books that I've got to store when I'm done.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:22 AM (zA7Zp)

66 48 Gerry Spence: Attorney from Jackson Hole Wyoming.

Posted by: Matt in Maine at June 06, 2013 11:22 AM (wOdJE)

Ace,

If memory serves, the publishers were angry because Amazon's sheer size allowed them to more or less set the price they paid the publisher (in a similar fashion to walmart.)

Apple came in and offered a way out of this (via competition of a sorts) and then there was some legal wrangling I don't understand which forced the model upon amazon.

(I think there was also the argument that by selling the books at such low prices, amazon was effectively devaluing the market.)

That's why the publishing houses were afraid. I know Roc tried to pull some shit like this so Amazon won't sell Roc ebooks IIRC (which is why The Dresden Files Books are always for sale hardback only.)

Ironically I've paid less Hardback the last 2 books than my ebook buying friends.

The old model worked because printed books tied up investiment, so the sellers wanted to move them quickly to someone else's balance sheet. Not so for ebooks, so the publishers want to change the market dynamics.

Posted by: tsrblke at June 06, 2013 11:23 AM (GaqMa)

Meant to type "fewer books".

And another point: There are LIV readers just as there are LIV voters. They are the ones who are not going to browse Amazon the same way they would browse a bookstore. And there are a lot of them.

Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 11:23 AM (i/s89)

69 Browsing a bookstore exposes readers to books and categories of books that they might otherwise not have considered-- as well as to gift items. Also exposes one to creepy smelly winos & hobos & shify & shady characters. Oh, you meant a different kind of book store, didn't you?

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:24 AM (CRyse)

70 Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 03:20 PM (i/s89)

My local Barnes and Noble is so unfriendly to people who want to browse for books it's amazing. It's chock full of toys and chocolate and coffee table books and crap. And it isn't arranged to make browsing pleasurable; it's arranged to drive traffic to high-margin areas.

So...while I like physical books, I am warming to my Kindle.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:24 AM (z4m16)

71 Of course, if they try to fix high prices they run the risk of people just downloading the books for free. Digital books are just another form of digital media. An incredibly small form that can be downloaded in a split-second.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 06, 2013 11:25 AM (ZPrif)

Gerry Spence: Attorney from Jackson Hole Wyoming.

-----------------

And quite a lefty, IIRC.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 06, 2013 11:25 AM (Z2Bkq)

73 It's thought that quotes from Steve Jobs' official biography have been cited as evidence in the case, including a quote in which the ex Apple CEO says, "We'll go to the agency model, where you set the price, and we get our 30 [percent], and yes, the customer pays a little more, but that's what you want anyway." I have 15 full length novels available as ebooks on Amazon priced at $3.99 and below - I sold 17,000 copies in May and pocketed $27k.

Posted by: louisbille at June 06, 2013 11:25 AM (9QZej)

74 We own two Kindles and an iPad in our household. The Kindle and iPad are two separate animals, living in two separate cages. When I read a book, I reach for my Kindle. When I want to read AOSHQ, I reach for my ThinkPad. When my husband needs to enter his weight training for the day, he reaches for his iPad. When my husband wants to read a book, he reaches for his Kindle. *Is Steve Jobs legacy about to be tarnished?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 06, 2013 11:25 AM (XYSwB)

Even if Gerry Spence was dead, he'd be better than this Mark O'Meara.

O'Meara is like the GOP. All the sparkle and glitter that makes republicans the choice of the people.

Posted by: jwest at June 06, 2013 11:25 AM (u2a4R)

76 They're suing Apple because they hate Amazon?

Posted by: HeatherRadishÂ™ needs a beer at June 06, 2013 03:22 PM

It's complicated. Borrow Ace's time machine....it will help.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:26 AM (z4m16)

77
Kunsler??

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:26 AM (8dspl)

78 It's complicated. Borrow Ace's time machine....it will help. --- Can someone travel back and give a gal named Stanley a condom some 40+ years back?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (zA7Zp)

79 The publishing industry is scared stiff by ebooks and self-publishing. They desperately want to protect paper books because they have a massive amount of capital sunk into producing and distributing them. Thus they want ebooks to be no cheaper than physical books so they can protect their investment. Apple was at war with Amazon for the ebook business, saw that the publishers wanted somebody to be their white knight against Amazon, and gathered the publishers in for the big fix in order to put a thumb in Amazon's eye. Love Apple's products, hate their strategies.

Posted by: joncelli at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (RD7QR)

80 Sure, you pay more but the State makes up for it in volume. Seems a fine business model for Russia or O'Bumble's fundamentally changed nation.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (ndlFj)

81 There are two other sets of people this hurts, of course: the consumer and the author- specifically independent or little-known authors. The consumer is hurt through a combination of higher prices and physical limitations (you can only have so many hard-copy books). The author is hurt by reduced sales and higher barrier to entry. Take a look at our own OSP. Amy Lynn (if you haven't bought it: do, it's worth it) is a first novel, self-published (sort of) via Amazon. It costs (IIRC- not looking at the moment) $15.00 in paperback, and $10.00 in ebook. Now, I'm willing to pay that price (well, for the ebook), because a) I "know" OSP and b) I like to support the Morons. But I'm sure there are lots of people who looked at it, thought "what else has he done? Nothing? How much? Na, I'll pass." Now, I don't know if OSP set his own price or not. What I do know is, if he wanted to sell more books, a lower price would have helped.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (/PCJa)

82 They're suing Apple because they hate Amazon? I don't think its the retailers doing the suing.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (/PCJa)

83 Ace,

You're using the term "own" informally throughout the piece, but a separate part of the problem is that you never actually own the book. You're just a licensee with no right to subsequently transfer the book. So the changeover to the agency model is more insidious than it appears at first glance. I believe there was just a case that stated that a deceased individual couldn't transfer their MP3 library through their will, which emphasizes the point.

Posted by: Xander Crews at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (HbmXA)

84 It's complicated. Borrow Ace's time machine....it will help.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 03:26 PM (z4m16

Wear something comfortable

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (jJA/4)

85 Regarding the camps, I posted this below:

UGH.

I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, et al?

Posted by: Dr. Jane D'oh at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (lVPtV)

86 A movie about ebooks? Sounds pretty boring. I'll bet the book version is better anyway.

Posted by: mugiwara at June 06, 2013 11:27 AM (+Prk3)

87 Libraries. Still free.

Posted by: huerfano at June 06, 2013 11:28 AM (bAGA/)

It is illegal collusion for major players in a market to get together and conspire to raise prices.

-----

It's just a book. They can offer for sale for any dang amount they want. It's THEIR book. Either i agree to buy it or i don't. I don't ever have to buy a book.

And it's different than gasoline or hamburger, as all the different books are unique. The book on do-it-yourself-cat-vasectomies doesn't directly compete with the book on marinating hobos.

Screw the government deciding how much people can charge for their stuff.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 11:28 AM (SO2Q8)

89
William Kuntsler (no offense, ladies)

Despised is an understatement to describe how people felt about him.

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:28 AM (BUcLz)

90 Love me my Kindle Fire, I lurk you morons at night with it, from the comfort of my couch. Also runs all the videos from my fave adult entertainment site. However, Adobe flash videos are a big problem.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:28 AM (jvd3N)

"Also exposes one to creepy smelly winos & hobos & shify & shady characters.

Oh, you meant a different kind of book store, didn't you?"

Heh. Yeah. A very different kind of bookstore. My husband managed a Christian bookstore.

Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 11:29 AM (i/s89)

92
make that Kunstler

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:29 AM (LVtr+)

93 And another point: There are LIV readers just as there are LIV voters. They are the ones who are not going to browse Amazon the same way they would browse a bookstore. And there are a lot of them.

Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 03:23 PM (i/s89)

----------------------------------------------

I won't. I love having a book in my hand. There's something soothing in it for me. Same could be said when I walk into a bookstore. The smell of new books, the browsing, the new discoveries........I hope bookstores never go away.

Posted by: Dr. Soona at June 06, 2013 11:29 AM (6mRoM)

94 Libraries. Still free.

Icky meat-space.

Posted by: eleven at June 06, 2013 11:29 AM (KXm42)

88 " Libraries. Still free."

Man, you don't know where those books have been.

Do they ever disinfect those things?

Posted by: jwest at June 06, 2013 11:29 AM (u2a4R)

96 Can someone travel back and give a gal named Stanley a condom some 40+ years back?

Tried that, she claimed she'd never use one because it didn't "feel natural".

Posted by: John Titor at June 06, 2013 11:30 AM (jGsIV)

97 And quite a lefty, IIRC.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 06, 2013 03:25 PM (Z2Bkq)

I would guess that most successful attorneys who do his kind of law are lefties. Attacking big corporations, looking out for the little guy...that kind of shit.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:30 AM (z4m16)

98 @91 DOJ is Watching...its also runs all my fave non adult entertainment sites

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 11:30 AM (jJA/4)

99 just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards
are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith
Olbermann, et al?

Posted by: Dr. Jane D'oh at June 06, 2013 03:27

Sounds like the cast of a really bad 70's porno.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2013 11:31 AM (/tc03)

100 I love having a book in my hand. There's something soothing in it for me. Hardbacks throw better.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:31 AM (CRyse)

101 I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards
are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith
Olbermann, et al?

Posted by: Dr. Jane D'oh at June 06, 2013 03:27 PM (lVPtV)

Then we'd be Hogan's Heroes.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:32 AM (jvd3N)

102

Just wait till they start putting Ads in e-books.

Turn a page...and there's another Ad.

Maybe they're doing it already? I don't use e-books, so I wouldn't know.

I like the tactile sensuousness of holding a book, and turning the paper pages.

Posted by: wheatie at June 06, 2013 11:32 AM (ZiafE)

103 Get Calibre e-book management. Then find the DeDRM plugin for Calibre. Then the book you paid for stays yours.

Posted by: Iblis at June 06, 2013 11:32 AM (9221z)

104 Also, Apple can go eat a bag of dicks. I liked Job's Howard Roark style personal, but everything that Apple does comes off as condescending. I'd probably be a big Apple fanboy right now if it wasn't for the I'm a Mac commercials.

Posted by: Xander Crews at June 06, 2013 11:32 AM (HbmXA)

105
>>> I think what Apple is really trying to assert, though, is that the Amazon Kindle is akin to Microsoft bundling IE with Windows (which, if you'll recall, is what those monopoly trials were about). It has exactly as much validity (which is to say: none, but idiots might accept it if you say it fast enough).

First of all, this is a case against apple, not amazon. What apple is doing here by bringing amazon into it is a PR stunt.

Secondly, the Microsoft monopoly case was not about bundling IE and Windows, it was that the two were wired together to give an unfair advantage to IE over other internet browsers. There was plenty of validity to that case.

Posted by: dan-O at June 06, 2013 11:32 AM (D0bIN)

106 my teenager wants to know what a book is.

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 11:33 AM (jJA/4)

107 96 88" Libraries. Still free."
Man, you don't know where those books have been.
Do they ever disinfect those things?

Posted by: jwest at June 06, 2013 03:29 PM (u2a4R)

Why am I not surprised you're afraid of ... contamination ... from the dirty masses?

I hope you're using a mouth filter - some of that air was exhaled by a mouth-breather!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 06, 2013 11:33 AM (oY6Yp)

108

I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards
are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith
Olbermann, et al?

---

The day of the riot when we turn on them will be so very sweet. Yeah, like that crew has the balls to shot us down (well, maybe Rachel...)

pound them into blood puddles

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 11:33 AM (SO2Q8)

109

96 88" Libraries. Still free."

Man, you don't know where those books have been.

Do they ever disinfect those things?

Thanks. You just ruined libraries for me forever. Now I'll feel like I'm swimming in someone's toilet every time I walk in the door.

Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 11:33 AM (i/s89)

110 Posted by: Dr. Jane D'oh at June 06, 2013 03:27 PM (lVPtV)

Well, except for Maddow, I think I could take any of them, or maybe any two of them.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:34 AM (z4m16)

111 I like the tactile sensuousness of holding a book, and turning the paper pages.

Wheatie I find you strangely arousing.

Posted by: eleven at June 06, 2013 11:34 AM (KXm42)

112 I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, et al? Posted by: Dr. Jane D'oh at June 06, 2013 03:27 PM (lVPtV) We're guaaaards. Guards. -Marionette Martin Sheen and Tim Robbins.

Posted by: Mainah at June 06, 2013 11:34 AM (659DL)

113 Maybe they're doing it already? I don't use e-books, so I wouldn't know. I love ebooks. I wish I had a "real" tablet for all the tablety goodness and a Kindle anything-but-the-fire for my reading pleasure. I like the tactile sensuousness of holding a book, and turning the paper pages. So... Adult bookstores then?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:34 AM (/PCJa)

114 I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards
are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith
Olbermann, et al?

Brings to mind the theme song to the movie M*A*S*H.

Posted by: HH at June 06, 2013 11:34 AM (XXwdv)

115 Maybe they're doing it already? I don't use e-books, so I wouldn't know.
I like the tactile sensuousness of holding a book, and turning the paper pages.

The Kindle does it. You can pay a higher price for a Kindle with no ads, or pay a discounted price for one that pops an ad up from time to time.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 11:35 AM (GQ8sn)

116 @91 DOJ is Watching...its also runs all my fave non adult entertainment sites

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 06, 2013 03:30 PM (jJA/4)

I could give two shits...if they want to out me for watching MILF videos let em' At least I've never ate dog.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:36 AM (jvd3N)

117 pops an ad up from time to time.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 03:35 PM (GQ8sn)

I thought the ads were only on the start screen.

So...they pop up when you are reading? That's sucks.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:36 AM (z4m16)

118 Posted by: girldog at June 06, 2013 03:33 PM (i/s89) Oh believe me many a library book has been marinated in the comfortable aroma of a John Doe's bathroom...

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 06, 2013 11:36 AM (dh83Q)

119 First of all, this is a case against apple, not amazon. What apple is doing here by bringing amazon into it is a PR stunt. First off: any port in a storm. I suspect they know they're about to get hammered, and are thus crying "SQUIRREL!" Secondly, the Microsoft monopoly case was not about bundling IE and Windows, it was that the two were wired together to give an unfair advantage to IE over other internet browsers. There was plenty of validity to that case. What unfair advantage? Does IE not come bundled with Windows today? People had been downloading (and using) Netscape for the better part of 10 years before those charges were brought.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:36 AM (/PCJa)

120 I could give two shits...if they want to out me for watching MILF videos let em'

They can have my MILF when they pry her from my cold, dead hands.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 11:37 AM (GQ8sn)

121 Well, except for Maddow, I think I could take any of them, or maybe any two of them.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 03:34 PM (z4m16)

---

I would wager 100 quatloos that Maddow has taken more than one dildo in her day...

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 11:37 AM (SO2Q8)

122 I just had a horrible thought. What if our camp guards are Martin Bashir, Chris Matthews, Rachel Madcow, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, et al?

Like most of the useful idiots, they'll be some of the first against the wall. But at least you won't have to look at their idiotic grins anymore.

Posted by: John Titor at June 06, 2013 11:37 AM (jGsIV)

123 At least I've never ate dog.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:36 PM (jvd3N)

Ever eat in NYC's Chinatown?

If so....I'll bet you have eaten dog. And cat. And maybe something worse.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:37 AM (z4m16)

124 I thought the ads were only on the start screen.

So...they pop up when you are reading? That's sucks.

They did on the older model Kindles, the home screen and sleep screen. Don't know about the newer ones.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 11:37 AM (GQ8sn)

125 So...they pop up when you are reading? That's sucks. I've never seen it, so if they do on any books I've purchased, they're so non-invasive that they might as well not exist.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:38 AM (/PCJa)

126 I just loved it when Apple made Amazon change their app so you couldn't buy books through Amazon on the iPad. Assbites, they need a good bitchslap. And I still don't understand why a book that's in paperback can't be cheap as well on the Kindle.

Posted by: Mrs Compton at June 06, 2013 11:38 AM (dX4hn)

127 101I love having a book in my hand. There's something soothing in it for me.

Hardbacks throw better.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 03:31 PM (CRyse)

---

Ever try to burn an E-book?

Posted by: nazi with a match at June 06, 2013 11:38 AM (SO2Q8)

128 Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 03:37 PM (SO2Q

Well, I laughed, but I am going to be discrete and not share the reason with everyone who heard me chuckle.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:39 AM (z4m16)

129 124 At least I've never ate dog. Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:36 PM (jvd3N) Ever eat in NYC's Chinatown? If so....I'll bet you have eaten dog. And cat. And maybe something worse. --- There's a cat in the kettle at the Peking Moon Where I go to eat my lunch at noon

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 06, 2013 11:39 AM (zA7Zp)

130 Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 03:37 PM (SO2Q

LOL LOL LOL LOL

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at June 06, 2013 11:39 AM (dh83Q)

131 My local Barnes and Noble is so unfriendly to people who want to browse for books it's amazing. It's chock full of toys and chocolate and coffee table books and crap. And it isn't arranged to make browsing pleasurable; it's arranged to drive traffic to high-margin areas. So...while I like physical books, I am warming to my Kindle. That B & N switch to becoming half a toy store is just so odd. Ours is right next door to a Toys R Us, which makes it even odder since B & N's prices for the same toys are way higher. I still go there ONLY for a couple of Brit music mags that can't be found anywhere else, and cost too much to have shipped from Merrie Olde.

Posted by: Eve at June 06, 2013 11:40 AM (7ObY1)

132 That B & N switch to becoming half a toy store is just so odd. Ours is right next door to a Toys R Us, which makes it even odder since B & N's prices for the same toys are way higher. They saw what happened to Borders, and they're pretty sure they're next. That's why, for quite a while (though I think I read they're abandoning it now), B&N stores were essentially Nook stores with some books you could look at.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 06, 2013 11:41 AM (/PCJa)

133 At least I've never ate dog.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:36 PM (jvd3N)

Ever eat in NYC's Chinatown?

If so....I'll bet you have eaten dog. And cat. And maybe something worse.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 03:37 PM (z4m16)

Closest to NYC Chinese food was shrimp toast from a vender at the P.A. bus terminal...almost didn't make it home alive.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:41 AM (jvd3N)

134 I hope you're using a mouth filter - some of that air was exhaled by a mouth-breather! Same thing I say when I break wind.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 06, 2013 11:41 AM (CRyse)

135 Just remember many libraries have music cds and video dvds and a thing called inter-library-loan, if they don't.

Posted by: Iblis at June 06, 2013 11:41 AM (9221z)

136 Ace, I'm not sure you would know this if you don't favor an ipad for an e-reader, but FWIW the Ipad scrolls like a kindle too, if you want it to.

I have used both and have a decided preference for my Pad. I'm not down with the pricing model - and both models are dirty - but it hasn't affected my use, since my library is filled with things that are free or very low cost, I only rarely go for new non-fiction.

Apple does have the better e-reader - the contrast, backlighting, are easier on my (of a certain age) eyes, the illustrations are of course better on the retina display, and I can squinch 'em or enlarge for detail easily. I also like my little portable internet so if I get bored of Mr. Darcy I can do something else with the machine.

Posted by: SarahW at June 06, 2013 11:41 AM (LYwCh)

137 sock off

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at June 06, 2013 11:42 AM (7ObY1)

138

Well, I laughed, but I am going to be discrete and not share the reason with everyone who heard me chuckle.

---

I should just call it a day. Gotta know when you've peaked.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at June 06, 2013 11:42 AM (SO2Q8)

139
Amazing how the brain works. My memory of 'William Kunstler' was like a folded up piece of paper. As I tried to recall the name, the paper unfolded -- I remember 'knussel' and then slowly the proper name was revealed.

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:42 AM (KeJAW)

140 Posted by: Eve at June 06, 2013 03:40 PM (7ObY1)

I think they'll be gone in a few years. The stores are huge, and they can't have the sales necessary to support that kind of footprint. That's the advantage of a traditional bookstore....density. 10,000 products on 5,000 square ft.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:42 AM (z4m16)

141 >>I have used both and have a decided preference for my Pad. I'm not down with the pricing model - and both models are dirty - but it hasn't affected my use, since my library is filled with things that are free or very low cost, I only rarely go for new non-fiction. I have no doubt the iPad is more action-packed with capability-- it's a computer without a keyboard. but for now I dig the Kindle, for price reasons. I don't mind that it's a text-reader that only reads text. The only problem, of course, is with illustrations. But I can see those on the computer (books download to your cloud which can be viewed on the computer, too), if I want to.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 11:44 AM (LCRYB)

142 I remember Kuntsler always appearing with Andrea Dworkin all the time in the late 80's and 90's. Are they both dead now?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 06, 2013 11:44 AM (RNhbC)

143 Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:41 PM (jvd3N)

You're a braver man than I.

That vendor got your shrimp toast from the garbage behind the place in Chinatown that got shut down for excessive rodent feces in the food.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:44 AM (z4m16)

144 The consumer is hurt through a combination of higher prices and physical limitations (you can only have so many hard-copy books). *weeps* Why must you point out horrible reality? *weeps*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at June 06, 2013 11:44 AM (VtjlW)

145 I could give two shits...if they want to out me for watching MILF videos let em'

They can have my MILF when they pry her from my cold, dead hands.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)

Give me MILF or give me death.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:45 AM (jvd3N)

146 as I spend all day (12, 14 hours) staring at an LCD screen, at the end of the day, in bed, I'd like to look at a non-LCD screen.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 11:46 AM (LCRYB)

147 I'd like to look at a non-LCD screen.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 03:46 PM (LCRYB)

So....the whole "girlfriend--fiancÃ©e--wife" thing is out for you?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 11:47 AM (z4m16)

148 Give me MILF or give me death.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:45 PM (jvd3N)

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of MILF's.

Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 11:48 AM (GQ8sn)

149 Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 03:41 PM (jvd3N)

You're a braver man than I.

That vendor got your shrimp toast from the garbage behind the place in Chinatown that got shut down for excessive rodent feces in the food.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 06, 2013 03:44 PM (z4m16)

You're probably right...It was in the 80's, couldn't have been more that 16yrs old didn't know any better. Thats what happens when you have desperate munchies after a iron Maiden show. lessons learned.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:49 AM (jvd3N)

150 I would like to add a reference to the Calibre E-book free reader.

http://calibre-ebook.com/

And Project Gutenberg and all of the free books in multiple formats.

http://www.gutenberg.org/

This seems an appropriate place to plug them.

Posted by: Ron at June 06, 2013 11:50 AM (rN9ev)

151
I think both Max and Andrea Dworkin are dead.

Posted by: soothsayer, malicious communicator at June 06, 2013 11:51 AM (FC8Yl)

152 145 >> The consumer is hurt through a combination of higher prices and physical limitations (you can only have so many hard-copy books).

*weeps* Why must you point out horrible reality? *weeps*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at June 06, 2013 03:44 PM (VtjlW)

Won't there be plenty of space for a library in Alextopia after the burning?

If I may be so bold, my sister has some training in Library Science and would gladly help you sort (and read) your magnificent book collection!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 06, 2013 11:51 AM (v3pYe)

153 as I spend all day (12, 14 hours) staring at an LCD screen, at the end of the day, in bed, I'd like to look at a non-LCD screen.

Posted by: ace at June 06, 2013 03:46 PM (LCRYB)

Some days my i can feel my eyes throbbing.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 06, 2013 11:53 AM (jvd3N)

154 Posted by: Ron at June 06, 2013 03:50 PM (rN9ev)

Project Gutenberg saved my butt once doing research!

Posted by: Iblis at June 06, 2013 11:53 AM (9221z)

155

*weeps* Why must you point out horrible reality? *weeps*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at June 06, 2013 03:44 PM (VtjlW)

My wife has so many books I had to warn her not to double shelf them on the 6X9 bookshelf in her office (on the second story) even when she was able to do that at the townhome, she filled that, plus several boxes (and still had boxes we hadn't collected back at her parents house, which we now have in the basement.)

Posted by: tsrblke at June 06, 2013 11:55 AM (GaqMa)

156 The Kindle does it. You can pay a higher price for a Kindle with no ads, or pay a discounted price for one that pops an ad up from time to time.
Posted by: EC at June 06, 2013 03:35 PM (GQ8sn)

Actually, that isn't true. The special-offer Kindles only show ads on the screen saver and at the very bottom of the home screen (which is so unintrusive I don't even notice it.)

There are no ads that pop up while reading a book.

Posted by: Dr. DangerGirl Ph.F.D., B! @deadlyestrogen at June 06, 2013 11:57 AM (GrtrJ)

157 As a small publisher, I despise Baker & Taylor.
I abhor Ingram.
I love Amazon.

They all take 55% but Amazon actually sells books.

And doesn't steal from you.

Posted by: Adam B at June 06, 2013 11:58 AM (phUqH)

158

My local Barnes and Noble is so unfriendly to people who want to browse for books it's amazing. It's chock full of toys and chocolate and coffee table books and crap. And it isn't arranged to make browsing pleasurable; it's arranged to drive traffic to high-margin areas.

-----------

Mine is the exact opposite. It even has chairs scattered throughout the store that people can curl up in with their favorite book (and frequently do). The only really annoying thing is the progressive groups that get permission to stand out in front of the store and try to drum up support for whatever cause they're working for at the moment.

Posted by: junior at June 06, 2013 12:00 PM (UWFpX)

159 Speaking as someone who has experience in the field, a fair amount of work goes into making a quality e-book but it is not different for Apple than it is for Amazon. Apple uses EPUB, which nearly everything on the planet except the Kindle uses.

The nature of the task is such that I develop in EPUB format and convert that to Kindle. There are vastly more and better tools for manipulating the code within EPUB files. But the fact remains that Amazon sells more than all of the other e-book outlets combined. By a large margin. When I do an e-book conversion job, the author is nearly always intent on getting it on Amazon with all of the other venues, including Apple, being an afterthought. It's like VHS vs. everything else in 1982.

Personally, I don't buy books from any online store. I obtain files for my Kindles and Nooks from torrents and send money directly to the authors if I think the book was good.

Posted by: epobirs at June 06, 2013 12:07 PM (kcfmt)

160 '.... Apple needs to have higher prices to support its supposedly-superior format....'

Would this be a format Apple based on Samsung patents it infringed upon?

Posted by: Rip VanBullwinkle at June 06, 2013 12:08 PM (qlIZh)

161 I hope Apple fails miserably in this trial and Amazon is forced to refund all the extra money I paid for ebooks under the Agency model.

Posted by: Ted at June 06, 2013 12:10 PM (rLWJ8)

162 We should also drop in a reference to Baen, which besides being better priced (they give some books away for free as introductions; typical books are $7-$10, but you can advance buy all 6+ of a single month's releases for $1

have a lot of authors that might fit in here to some degree (Correia, Williamson, Hoyt, Ringo, Kratman...).

http://www.baenebooks.com/c-1-free-library.aspx

Posted by: CD at June 06, 2013 12:25 PM (aqyej)

163 This isn't that complicated. It's the old story of middlemen no longer being needed to the extent they once were. Neither Apple nor Amazon is the culprit in this tale of survival and greed. Just as in the music industry, where retail CD costs haven't fallen to the actual costs of production and supply, so too with ebooks, which are much more comparable to digital downloads of music.

ebooks are a paradigm changing technology for the publishing and book selling industries. They are resisting those changes in a manner designed to maintain and even increase their profits at the expense of the consumer. Their motivation for doing so is a combination of survival and greed.

There are little to no publishing costs with ebooks, no wasted overruns with thousands of books languishing on shelves. There are no shipping costs and little marketing costs. ebooks represent a tremendous savings for publishers and every ebook sold at the cost of a physical book results in an enormous increase in profits for the publisher, who has actually done little to nothing.

But a successful, well known author can hire an editor and then put out an ebook and completely cut out BOTH the publisher and the brick and mortar stores and chains. Amazon, the media and other internet sellers would promote their book for free and only fail to do so because of pressure from the publishing houses. In an increasingly internet connected world of devices, an established ebook author's lost sales on physical book sales is exceeded by the increased profits they gain by cutting out the middlemen.

Thus ebooks are a mortal threat to brick and mortar stores and chain book sellers AND to the publishing houses. The publishers are looking to protect Barnes and Noble, et al who are major outlets for their product. They are looking to protect their revenue stream. That's what the high prices for ebooks are all about.

Posted by: Geoffrey Britain at June 06, 2013 12:29 PM (YJxqx)

164 Don't forget the huge plus for BAEN books. No DRM and multiple formats.

Posted by: almost too shy to post at June 06, 2013 06:36 PM (mJzeH)

165 This is the same Apple that filed for a patent on having rounded corners on their iDevices. Sadly, the Patent Office awarded it. Hey, Apple, rounded corners have been around for quite a while. Here's an example: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kaab7qc

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at June 07, 2013 05:07 AM (1hM1d)

166 I don't understand the gov't case vs Apple at all. The US SC already ruled recently, in Leegin v PSKS that manufacturers [in this case publishers] and retailers can set minimum retail pricing. They specifically ruled that such parties can collude to maintain minimum retail pricing.

They also specifically noted that such accords may help: develop new products and markets [ebooks would seem to qualify], and also customer service [no comment on the that one.]

So, whilst as a consumer I would prefer prices be lower than higher, it doesn't seem that Apple has broken the law given recent precedent. Perhaps that's why they have spent time attacking Amazon as noted by Ace?

Posted by: naj at June 07, 2013 11:44 AM (GM7k5)

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