Ace of Spades HQ

July 07, 2013

The Case of Marissa Alexander and the Overzealous State's Attorney - [Niedermeyer's Dead Horse]
— Open Blogger

With the George Zimmerman trial in full swing, my mind wanders to another self-defense case: The case of Marissa Alexander, sentenced to 20 years in prison for Aggravated Assault.

Now, this case is not as neat and clean as is Zimmerman's but that makes it an even more interesting case.
On August 10, 2010, Marissa Alexander claims to have fired a warning shot to protect herself from her husband, Rico Gray. Her husband claimed at first that she fired into the air then changed his story to say that she fired at him. The hanging factor came down to the fact that she left the room where he was, went to the garage and retrieved her gun from the car, then returned to the room to fire the shot. The state argued that when she left the room, she could have fled, and thus was not eligible for immunity under the state's Stand Your Ground defense.

Oh, but why did she return? First, her children were in the room with her husband and, second, Gray himself claims the garage door was locked.

Again, this case is by no means perfect.

Alexander violated her bail by returning to the home a few months after firing the shot. Many will question why a woman who had been previously abused by her husband, who had fired a shot in fear, would return to the scene.

Angela Corey charged Alexander with Aggravated Assault and offered a plea deal of 3 years. Alexander refused to take the deal as she argued she had done nothing wrong. The case went to a jury where she was found guilty and sentenced, under Florida's mandatory sentencing guidelines, to 20 years.

Something about the case feels, off.

Does someone who fires a warning shot in protection of her children and herself deserve 20 years in prison? What if that person had violated bail? What if that person had left the room then returned to fire the shot?

Was Alexander, as Corey is want to do, overcharged in the instance or, perhaps, this case says something about mandatory sentencing. Or.... is the sentence just right?

I'm curious about your take.

Read here a 2012 article on the subject and let me know your thoughts.

It should be an interesting discussion.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 01:32 PM | Comments (207)
Post contains 398 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Well, this is depressing.

Posted by: Vendette at July 07, 2013 01:34 PM (bgZok)

2 Why depressing?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:34 PM (jjvz+)

3 It's tricky, too, because isn't the state claiming that she could have hit one of the children when she fired at the ceiling? Warning shots seem like a bad idea. If you're really in fear of your life, shooting something which is not the bad guy doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: VKI at July 07, 2013 01:35 PM (TKoA3)

4 I could easily be wrong about this but didn't it turn out that the "warning shot" was actually fired into a wall? I seem to remember that and the idea that an errant bullet could have gone somewhere it should not have.

Posted by: Daybrother at July 07, 2013 01:36 PM (PdKpD)

5 So is this the de facto gun thread?

Posted by: logprof at July 07, 2013 01:36 PM (fOFYL)

6 Warning shots are appropriate. If aimed at center of mass.

Posted by: another fapping moron at July 07, 2013 01:37 PM (EV3Uf)

7 SO THIS is the gun thread? Finally! What cal was the pistol, how many times did she shoot. Did she hit anyone?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 01:37 PM (wR+pz)

8 sounds like Marissa got fucked. she probably would have done less time if she'd killed the bastard. just my 2 cents.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 01:37 PM (8lmkt)

9 Twenty years seems like a very long time in the absence of prior convictions and in cases where no physical harm was actually perpetrated. Question: if the genders were reversed, that is, if the male fired the warning shot, would it make a difference?

Posted by: Juan de Hattatime at July 07, 2013 01:37 PM (CqZmo)

10 Warning shots seem like a bad idea. If you're really in fear of your life, shooting something which is not the bad guy doesn't make sense to me. *** My CC instructor informed us to never fire a warning shot. That if you are truly in imminent danger, fire to stop the danger. Then again, I can understand not wanting to shoot a man in front of the children, too.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (jjvz+)

11 Someone recently mentioned how malicious Corey haz been in some previous prosecutions. Apparently there are many horror stories out there - i just never made time to read up in them. Thanks for this one, NDH.

Posted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (CbiPs)

12 No gun thread today? This makes me feel... itchy.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (IN7k+)

13 Never, ever fire a warning shot. Ever. And, yes, I guess this can be the de facto gun thread. Will be back in full force next Sunday.

Posted by: Andy at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (li+aS)

14 Is Angela Corey the same FL DA going after Zimmerman?

Posted by: logprof at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (fOFYL)

15 Oh, read the story. Obviously racist!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 01:38 PM (wR+pz)

16 SO THIS is the gun thread? She went to the garage to put on her body armour and her assault magazine.

Posted by: Daybrother at July 07, 2013 01:39 PM (PdKpD)

17 Warning shots seem like a bad idea. If you're really in fear of your life, shooting something which is not the bad guy doesn't make sense to me. Posted by: VKI at July 07, 2013 05:35 PM (TKoA3) Exactly. If you are going to shoot in self-defense (or in defense of your children), then you are only doing so if you or your children's life is in danger. If you or your child's life is in danger, you shoot to kill. While a warning shot might seem like a way to prevent anyone from dying, this turns out to not be so, as we see with the case above. At this point the best anyone can do is petition the Governor for a pardon or a reduction of sentence.

Posted by: The Political Gun at July 07, 2013 01:39 PM (Vk2pI)

18 Yep, same angela corey

Posted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 01:39 PM (CbiPs)

19 Is Angela Corey the same FL DA going after Zimmerman? *** Yes

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (jjvz+)

20 If you draw your gun, shoot. If you shoot, hit the target. If you hit the target, kill the target. It's much simpler that way.

Posted by: George S. Patton at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (Pr6hk)

21 Well, I used to work in a federal prison. 70% of the inmate population were low level black and hispanic drug dealers who were busted as young men in their early 20's. Because of mandatory sentencing, they all got 25 yrs. I thought it was unjust.

Posted by: L, elle at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (0PiQ4)

22 Is Angela Corey the same FL DA going after Zimmerman?

yup

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (8lmkt)

23 Why depressing? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 05:34 PM (jjvz+) I think it's best summed up in what you said,, that something feels off about the whole thing.

Posted by: Vendette at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (bgZok)

24 It seems to me that she could have been charged with a lesser offense, something like unlawful discharge of a firearm.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:40 PM (jjvz+)

25 Warning shots seem like a bad idea. If you're really in fear of your life, shooting something which is not the bad guy doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: VKI at July 07, 2013 05:35 PM (TKoA3)

This. If you aren't in fear for your life (or of someone elses) you have no reason to fire, if you have reason to fire don't waste it on a "warning shot".

Does she deserve to be in jail for 20 years? I don't think so, but that's more a commentary on mandatory sentencing. Bottom line is we don't have a justice system, we have a legal system.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at July 07, 2013 01:41 PM (yh0zB)

26 Admittedly, I am predisposed to think Angela Corey is a bit in love with her own ideas about power and prosecution. I don't think that the sentencing under a jury trial should exceed the penalty offered in a plea bargain. I think that plea bargaining has become a blunt instrument by which the state bludgeons those it fears it might be able to convict.

Posted by: Juan de Hattatime at July 07, 2013 01:41 PM (CqZmo)

27 same DA

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2013 01:41 PM (gXLJL)

28 Well, IF you were going to fire a warning shot, would you take Biden's advice and fire off a couple of rounds of a 12 GA? Hey, sounds logical to us.

Posted by: MSM Editors at July 07, 2013 01:42 PM (wR+pz)

29 22 Is Angela Corey the same FL DA going after Zimmerman? yup Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 05:40 PM (8lmkt) Angela Corey. One more "r" in her last name and she gets a CAT bulldozer. Deserves one anyway.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 07, 2013 01:43 PM (+98Gb)

30 The Law sucks sometimes. My advise: Try your best never to get caught up in it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2013 01:43 PM (gXLJL)

31 At this point, it's fair to question any case that Angela Corey was involved with.

Posted by: toby928© at July 07, 2013 01:43 PM (QupBk)

32 #26 dang.... Should read: fears it might NOT be able to convict.

Posted by: Juan de Hattatime at July 07, 2013 01:43 PM (CqZmo)

33 28 - straight through the door and at the nieighbors house!

Posted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 01:44 PM (CbiPs)

Were both she and her husband of the same race? Or was this a mixed race relationship? Considering Corey's behaviour toward the Z trial, it might be a factor......or not.

I find it sad that I even have to consider this question.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 01:44 PM (xrA3k)

35 Please allow me to introduce myself. Just wait for the zimmerman verdict. All part of the plan.

Posted by: satan at July 07, 2013 01:44 PM (V+Pei)

36 My cousin's murder got 8 years. So yes, 20 is excessive.

Posted by: Lauren at July 07, 2013 01:45 PM (ikxXh)

37 34 Were both she and her husband of the same race? Or was this a mixed race relationship? Considering Corey's behaviour toward the Z trial, it might be a factor......or not. Dog Whistle!!!

Posted by: MSM Editors at July 07, 2013 01:45 PM (wR+pz)

38 At this point, it's fair to question any case that Angela Corey was involved with. *** The case of Ronald Thompson is another interesting case. ALso fired a warning shot and got 20 years. The prospect of defending yourself in Angela Corey's domain is becoming a risky one indeed.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:46 PM (jjvz+)

39 It's always been my understanding that, if a situation devolves to the point where you are aiming a loaded firearm at another human being, the time for fucking around is over. You shoot to kill. I hope I never have to find out if I can do that.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 01:46 PM (8lmkt)

40 NDH Was that you that brought up this topic last week in a GZ thread? Someone did, and i guess there are more cases like this (or worse)

Posted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 01:46 PM (CbiPs)

41 Her husbands name was Rico? Shame it wasn't Juan. Everyone is happy when they score a hole in Juan.

Posted by: Lace Wigs [/i] at July 07, 2013 01:46 PM (U2UQk)

42 WTF nobody died or was wounded and she got 20 years? What do DUI cases get down there?

Posted by: McGregor at July 07, 2013 01:47 PM (qo244)

43 Was that you that brought up this topic last week in a GZ thread? Someone did, and i guess there are more cases like this (or worse) *** Perhaps. She made a point of saying that she was going to be very aggressive in pursuing gun crimes, and she has been.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:48 PM (jjvz+)

If I was her Lawyer, I would have taken her to the range... with witnesses...

See how well she can shoot...

Then introduce her target into evidence, and point out her accuracy, AND the fact she only SHOT ONCE.

Just as in the Zimmerman case... if she was really trying to kill him, she WOULD have shot more than once.

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 07, 2013 01:49 PM (lZBBB)

45 Another case of the DA overcharging. Hell we had a case here where a man shot and killed another man because their sons were fighting over a dirt bike.

The killer was sentenced to 7 years for manslaughter and was out walking around on work release after two years.

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2013 01:50 PM (lZvxr)

46 She made a point of saying that she was going to be very aggressive in pursuing gun crimes, and she has been. It would be better if she concentrated more on actual crimes and less on cases of lawful use of a weapon that she disagrees with.

Posted by: zsasz at July 07, 2013 01:50 PM (MMC8r)

From everything I have read, this woman was not a thug or career criminal, three years for what she did was useless in deterring her or anyone else. 20 years is a travesty.

I think Angla Corey, the prosecutor in this case and the Zimmerman case is a vicious, power hungry person that should not be in her position. That said, she is "Tough on Crime." And many of us suuport her or people similar to her.

Looking at the prosecutors through the Zimmerman case and Duke Lacrosse case; and the police in multiple cases (Why does Minneapolis MN spend $14 million on paying off police abuse cases?) and others, I am not sure I support the police and prosecutors in many cases.

We need reform of the police and prosecutors. And if someone other than the race-pimps and bleeding hearts would lead it, I'd get on board.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 01:53 PM (D+lxs)

48 We got new politicians for the scene today, although they make a lot of noises, they got nothing to say
I try to look amazed, but it's an act, the movie might be new but it's the same soundtrack

Posted by: Carter Chipman Hull at July 07, 2013 01:55 PM (e8kgV)

All this said, Where is the GOVERNOR?

Rick Scott has the power of the pardon for a reason. Like mitigating the abuse of office by over-zealous prosecutors.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 01:56 PM (D+lxs)

50 if she was really trying to kill him, she WOULD have shot more than once.

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 07, 2013 05:49 PM (lZBBB)

didn't someone say her children were in the room? you don't want to just spray lead in that situation. sounds like she has piss-poor legal representation. because this Corey bitch has done an excellent job of establishing the defense's case in Zimmerman, from what I have gleaned.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 01:56 PM (8lmkt)

51 Corey does it again. As Corey put it, "She discharged a gun to kill them, and she has to answer for that." Corey is FOS. One shot that missed, and she didn't fire again, does not show intent to kill, it supports her claim of a warning shot. If she was trying to kill him (them! Is there any evidence at all she was trying to kill her children?) she would have emptied the gun. This case should have been the equivalent of a reckless endangerment or FL's equivalent. A year or two, max.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 01:56 PM (PD2ad)

Was her husband abusive? It doesn't say in the post. If he was, she should have left town and never come back. I really don't understand women who put up with that shit to begin with. In my mind, women who go back to abusive husbands are setting themselves up for situations exactly like this.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 01:56 PM (xrA3k)

53 Without looking at the other comments: What seems to have been overlooked is the tort Gray did: false imprisonment, in the bathroom, presumably using force or the implication of force. Alexander is said to have had to "push past him". This means restraint by Gray, which is an assault I should think. After that, what duty does Alexander have to abandon a place where she has the legal right to be. I know what the answer would be where I live, but do not in Florida. But if they have the Castle doctrine... So...We have admitted false imprisonment and assault by the "victim" that directly led to his being "assaulted". Admitted. Why did this go to trial? This is a bad case, and my guess it is anti-gun animus on the part of the prosecutor. Corey has certainly allowed men to shove women around, and all they can do is leave. Maybe. After all, Gray had already blocked Alexander's movements once. She had legitimate reason to fear he might do so again, and then does it not depend upon Gray's past history? How does he act when he has total physical control? It might be that firing a shot defused the situation better than anything else could have. As far as the 20 years--cruel and unusual. No harm was done of any permanent nature, and the "victim", Gray, had already committed a crime.

Posted by: T. at July 07, 2013 01:57 PM (PknDr)

54 There are way too many prosecutors out there who have higher political ambitions, and are willing to use people like this as steppingstones to power. I see it over and over again.

Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 01:57 PM (sdi6R)

55 Well if I were to argue the merits of this case as if I were a leftist, I would demand that she be set free. Because fairness. And she's an oppressed wymyn. And down with the patriarchy.

Posted by: chemjeff at July 07, 2013 01:58 PM (9GG/0)

56 Was her husband abusive? It doesn't say in the post. If he was, she should have left town and never come back. I really don't understand women who put up with that shit to begin with. In my mind, women who go back to abusive husbands are setting themselves up for situations exactly like this. *** Yes. I believe he had previously put her in the hospital.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 01:58 PM (jjvz+)

57 Was her husband abusive? It doesn't say in the post. If he was, she should have left town and never come back. I really don't understand women who put up with that shit to begin with.

Soona, I don't think anyone can actually understand that without walking a mile in their shoes. It's a very complicated emotional situation and there are usually financial considerations as well. I never judge those gals . . . everybody does, but there are nuances that are completely incomprehensible.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 01:58 PM (8lmkt)

58 Another of Corey's victims, Ronald Thompson, gets a new trial. http://bit.ly/180Ud0B

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:00 PM (jjvz+)

59 hopefully, this trial will be Angela Corey's downfall. she sounds like 9 miles of bad road to me.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:00 PM (8lmkt)

60 NDH, perhaps Angela Corey has dreams of being the next Janet Reno. Look what that woman did in Florida before becoming the Attorney General.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 02:00 PM (hciUg)

61 more people complained about a cop shooting a dog in LA then they do about shooting down an unarmed yute. Job done here. Moving on up.

Posted by: satan at July 07, 2013 02:01 PM (V+Pei)

62 Â“We have a problem in our country when a faith-based group that accounts for less than two percent of the American population is responsible for almost 85 percent of terrorist attacks and plots against the United States,Â” Gabriel said. Â”ThatÂ’s a problem that our nation has to address. Our government was selling the lie that there is nothing to worry about, everything is fine.Â”

Posted by: Carter Chipman Hull at July 07, 2013 02:01 PM (e8kgV)

63 Pilot tried to abort the landing on the Asiana flight, moments before it crashed.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 07, 2013 02:03 PM (ZPrif)

64 Soona, I don't think anyone can actually understand that without walking a mile in their shoes. It's a very complicated emotional situation and there are usually financial considerations as well. I never judge those gals . . . everybody does, but there are nuances that are completely incomprehensible.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 05:58 PM (8lmkt)

---------------------------------------------

I must be lucky. I've never known, dated, or married any woman that would have put up with any physical abuse. As a matter of fact, each of those women would have never even considered a warning shot if I had hit them.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:04 PM (xrA3k)

65 Remember my post about the child-killer, Christian Fernandez? Charged as an adult for the murder of his baby brother. Also Corey. The child is an evil monster but she over-stepped in charging him as an adult. I don't think the jury would have bought it and the risk was that he could be set free. As it is, they negotiated a deal.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:04 PM (jjvz+)

66 So Corey to run for Governor, when?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:05 PM (wR+pz)

more people complained about a cop shooting a dog in LA then they do about shooting down an unarmed yute. Job done here. Moving on up.

Posted by: satan at July 07, 2013 06:01 PM (V+Pei)

The dog was innocent, and defending his idiot master. Trayvon was trying to kill or injure that creepy ass cracker that was disrespecting him.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 02:05 PM (D+lxs)

68 Niedermeyer (sorry if this is a stupid question), is Corey elected or appointed?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:05 PM (8lmkt)

69 The penalty for aggravated assault in FL is 5 years. Using a gun makes it a minimum of 3 years. So how did she get 20 years?

This doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2013 02:06 PM (lZvxr)

70 The verdict, of course, is entirely dependent on skin color. Black=innocent. White=guilty. Duh.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at July 07, 2013 02:06 PM (xjpRj)

71 Was her husband abusive? It doesn't say in the post. If he was, she
should have left town and never come back. I really don't understand
women who put up with that shit to begin with.>>

Never in fear of my life but I stayed way longer than I should have with an ex that abused my bank account and house. Even for guys relationships that involve sex are complicated and hind sight is 20/20.

Posted by: McGregor at July 07, 2013 02:06 PM (qo244)

72 So Corey to run for Governor, when? *** She wouldn't dare.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:07 PM (jjvz+)

73 If she wants to go after gun crimes, she can spend her days dealing with the gangs in Miami.

Posted by: zsasz at July 07, 2013 02:07 PM (MMC8r)

74 Overcharging is a now-common tactic of prosecutors. It is unjust, but there is no easy way to stop it.

Mandatory sentencing is insane. Many states are already being forced to release or parole violent offenders because of overcrowding since they cannot release less violent or nonviolent inmates serving mandatory sentences for drugs, possession of drugs or guns in proximity to schools, smoking on the sidewalk, etc.

Mandatory sentencing came into being due to judges and parole boards letting dangerous people off easy or out early. Of course, legislatures refused to deal with that problem directly by removing incompetents and liberals and replacing them with better judges and parole boards. Instead, they thought it brilliant to keep the bad officials on the job and just limit their options instead.

The Alexander case is an example of both problems. But she is no innocent, firing a "warning shot" is crazy. If there is no imminent threat, don't shoot. If there is, aim.

Posted by: Adjoran at July 07, 2013 02:08 PM (473jB)

75 The penalty for aggravated assault in FL is 5 years. Using a gun makes it a minimum of 3 years. So how did she get 20 years? *** 10-20-Life She used a gun in the commission of a felony.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:08 PM (jjvz+)

76 Posted by: BeckoningChasm at July 07, 2013 06:06 PM (xjpRj) In this case, the defendant is Black... IN other news, Theresa Heinz Kerry has been taken to the hospital in critical but stable condition. No further details. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/john-kerry-wife-93799.html

Posted by: Ragamuffin at July 07, 2013 02:09 PM (fzFF6)

77 Penalties for Aggravated Assault

Aggravated Assault is classified as a Third Degree Felony and assigned a Level 6 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.

If convicted of Aggravated Assault, a judge can impose any combination of the following penalties:

Up to five (5) years in prison.Up to five (5) years of probation.Up to $5,000 in fines. Firearm Enhancement: Aggravated Assault with a Firearm

Aggravated Assault with a Firearm is technically the same offense as Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon. However the allegation that the "deadly weapon" was a firearm triggers a three (3) year minimum-mandatory prison sentence if convicted as charged.

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2013 02:10 PM (lZvxr)

78 So how did she get 20 years?

my money is still on a spectacularly incompetent defense. which is grounds for appeal in most states, who knows about fuckin' flahrida, though.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:10 PM (8lmkt)

79 Doing a quick search on Florida Castle Doctrine--it would seem Alexander had every right to be in the house where she was with free movements within said house. Further, the Doctrine says, if I understand it correctly, that she thus does not have a duty to leave the house. None whatsoever. Gray used both physical force to confine Alexander and made a comment that can easily be considered to arouse fear in the reasonable person--"If I can't have you nobody can." Thus, this, to me, with the law degree I got in the CrackerJack box, is not "Stand Your Ground", but Castle Doctrine, for Gray, though he had a lawful right to be there, did not have a lawful right to impede other's lawful rights to do the same--free transit in the house. Or to assault them. This: Open fire, ladies, if the guy forgets himself.

Posted by: T. at July 07, 2013 02:11 PM (PknDr)

80 OT: Should I post this in the Saipan thread?

http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/selection-du-weekend-43-9.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 02:11 PM (hciUg)

81 Theresa Heinz Kerry has been taken to the hospital in critical but stable condition. It was... Ketchup... poisoning...

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:11 PM (PD2ad)

82 Microsoft said that its MSN TV service will be closing down at the end of September, in a post on its Web site and in an email to users.

MSN TV, of course, was born of WebTV, which was thought up by well-known entrepreneur Steve Perlman. The software giant bought it at the height of the Web 1.0 boom in mid-1997, paying $425 million.

Posted by: Steve Jobs at July 07, 2013 02:12 PM (e8kgV)

83 O/T Drudge says Kerry and Terri in hospital, critical condition. Sounds like food poisoning to me.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:12 PM (wR+pz)

84 Theresa Heinz Kerry has been taken to the hospital in critical but stable condition.

If they still have her at the hospital in Nantucket and haven't flown her out to Boston, she's fine. Probably just too much chardonnay and prescription meds. Just a fuckin' distraction.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:12 PM (8lmkt)

85 And I have no faith left in the justice system, my career for 30+ years. None. Need drink.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:13 PM (PD2ad)

86 She used a gun in the commission of a felony.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 06:08 PM (jjvz+)

---------------------------------------

Okay. The way I've read this up to now was that it was self-defense (a warning shot) against an abusive husband. How is this a felony. Or is this part of the case's mystery.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:13 PM (xrA3k)

87 real joe!!!! you're looking well tonight!

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:13 PM (8lmkt)

88 Okay. The way I've read this up to now was that it was self-defense (a warning shot) against an abusive husband. How is this a felony. Or is this part of the case's mystery. *** Aggravated assault is a felony.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:13 PM (jjvz+)

89 47 I think Angla Corey, the prosecutor in this case and the Zimmerman case is a vicious, power hungry person that should not be in her position. That said, she is "Tough on Crime." And many of us suuport her or people similar to her. --- We need reform of the police and prosecutors. And if someone other than the race-pimps and bleeding hearts would lead it, I'd get on board. Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 05:53 PM (D+lxs) That's true. The fact is that for decades "law-and-order conservatives" have reflexively supported prosecutors and the police and given them the benefit of the doubt. It's mostly liberals and libertarians who have been saying, "Hey, wait a minute. What about individual rights? What about 'innocent until proven guilty'?" We've seen it in the War on Drugs which conservatives have generally supported. Yet it is the War on Drugs which has led directly to the militarization of local police and increases in 'no-knock' raids. In the last few years I've seen signs that conservatives are starting to wake up, but I fear it may be too little, too late.

Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (sdi6R)

90 Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of US Secretary of State John F. Kerry, was taken to a hospital on Nantucket this afternoon, according to a person close to the family. Heinz Kerry, 74, was stricken with an unspecified medical condition while at the familyÂ’s vacation home on the island, said the person, who asked not to be named. Her husband was at the home at the time. No further information was immediately available.

Her husband, Secretary of State, John Kerry, was unavailable on his yacht.

Posted by: Henry Kissinger at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (e8kgV)

91 An aggravated assault - a felony.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (PD2ad)

92 Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:12 PM (8lmkt) And this is why I usually stick to ABC (Anything But Chardonnay)

Posted by: Ragamuffin at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (fzFF6)

93 See the circular logic forming?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (jjvz+)

94 So the Secretary of State and his wife had the fish? Did Moochelle prepare it for them?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 02:14 PM (hciUg)

95 Her husband, Secretary of State, John Kerry, was unavailable on his yacht.

Posted by: Henry Kissinger at July 07, 2013 06:14 PM (e8kgV)

Oh, snap!!!

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:15 PM (8lmkt)

96 And this is why I usually stick to ABC (Anything But Chardonnay) Posted by: Ragamuffin at July 07, 2013 06:14 PM (fzFF6) ::fist bump::

Posted by: Vendette at July 07, 2013 02:15 PM (bgZok)

97 Daily reminder: We are doomed.

Posted by: JohnKerryIsADoucheBag at July 07, 2013 02:15 PM (6sqK6)

98
Drudge says Kerry and Terri in hospital, critical condition.

Sounds like food poisoning to me.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 06:12 PM (wR+pz)

-------------------------------------------

Probably swallowed their ball-gags.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:15 PM (xrA3k)

99 Check the herring ...

Posted by: the angel of death in a funny hat at July 07, 2013 02:16 PM (QupBk)

100 Pilot tried to abort the landing on the Asiana flight, moments before it crashed.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 07, 2013 06:03 PM (ZPrif)

CNN has amateur video of the actual crash. It's also on The Blaze. It's from a low angle, so you can't tell much about the strike. It did get briefly airborne as it was sliding, though. It did not "cartwheel".

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at July 07, 2013 02:16 PM (1hekh)

101 Good lord, the big drudge link to ABC about why Z-man won't be convicted of manslaughter. Perhaps because they didn't actually CHARGE him with manslaughter. Ain't no cure for stupid, still, eh?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:17 PM (8lmkt)

102
The wife of the gigolo, John Kerry, is in the hospital. Why this is 'news,' who knows and who cares.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 07, 2013 02:17 PM (ZgBZU)

103 Yeah nice post NDH, basically Corey was discussed at length by some FL 'rons back around the time GZ was on Hannity.

She's a piece of work. Lives up to every negative connotation of out of control Southern Prosecutors under the sun, but with an arguably different gender.

Check out her behavior in the Cristian Fernandez Case...

http://tinyurl.com/6uj6dkz

also on the ethics front...though probably a laugher in the Age of Obama is this gem...

http://tinyurl.com/lacnkqx

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:17 PM (LRFds)

104 CNN has amateur video of the actual crash. It's also on The Blaze. It's from a low angle, so you can't tell much about the strike. It did get briefly airborne as it was sliding, though. It did not "cartwheel". *** It was close to it. About a 45 deg angle there. Somewhere between a flat spin and a cartwheel.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:17 PM (jjvz+)

105 OT: Should I post this in the Saipan thread?>>

Since I grew up a poor child who's toys were mostly dirt and rocks the closest I got to that kind of fancy toy was 2 stolen bolts and a nut. Same bang without the fancy dressing.

Posted by: McGregor at July 07, 2013 02:18 PM (qo244)

106 Check out her behavior in the Cristian Fernandez Case... *** I put up a post on that case a few months ago. It got the blood pressure up around here.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:18 PM (jjvz+)

107 101 Peaches,

It also sort of lapses over the whole concept of "proof of intent"...

OTOH you can't fix stupid.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:18 PM (LRFds)

108 It did get briefly airborne as it was sliding, though. It did not "cartwheel". The fact that the wings were intact and even fairly unmolested would prove that it didn't. CNN, like most news media, though, can't add 2 + 2, and simply parrot whatever catch-phrase that comes across their plate.

Posted by: zsasz at July 07, 2013 02:18 PM (MMC8r)

109 67 rd My post wasn't about trayvon. But about the misplaced feeling's the public has about police and the massive militarization that is taking place on the street's And how the liv accept most anything they are told. Please spy on me, it's good. Again, job done. Wake up a sheeple in your family, make the country a better place.

Posted by: satan at July 07, 2013 02:19 PM (V+Pei)

110 Perhaps because they didn't actually CHARGE him with manslaughter. Manslaughter might be a lesser included offense, with no need for a separate charge. IANAL, nor do I play one on TV.

Posted by: Fox 2! at July 07, 2013 02:19 PM (XFTOV)

111 We can only pray that this is Kerry's fate. http://tinyurl.com/cpbx77v

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:20 PM (wR+pz)

112 106 NDH,

I thought so, yeah she's shady...of course she bats on the right side of the aisle to be able to engage in the very gymnastics she does...

I was on the phone with my Combat Engineer buddy from high school...

reflecting on the futility of our foreign policy efforts our entire adult lives has my blood up.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:20 PM (LRFds)

113 if that fuckin' plane had cartwheeled, it would not still have attached wings and they would have needed a lot more body bags.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:20 PM (8lmkt)

114

Pilot tried to abort the landing on the Asiana flight, moments before it crashed.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at July 07, 2013 06:03 PM (ZPrif)

CNN has amateur video of the actual crash. It's also on The Blaze. It's from a low angle, so you can't tell much about the strike. It did get briefly airborne as it was sliding, though. It did not "cartwheel".

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at July 07, 2013 06:16 PM (1hekh)

That airplane is amazing. If the fuselage had broken up or the wings broke off, there would have been a massive instant fire. And we would be mourning a lot more deaths. Maybe all of them.

Boeing did a good job with this plane.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 02:21 PM (D+lxs)

115

It was close to it. About a 45 deg angle there. Somewhere between a flat spin and a cartwheel.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 06:17 PM (jjvz+)

-----------------------------------------

From what little I saw of the video, they were lucky not too strike the sea wall further foward on the fuselage. Total destruction if that would have happened.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:21 PM (xrA3k)

116 Manslaughter might be a lesser included offense, with no need for a separate charge. Correct. The jury may get the option of considering manslaughter if they acquit on murder.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:22 PM (PD2ad)

117 108 Zsasz,
not to be brag but several of us here, yours truly included, reasoned out the most likely chain of events as soon as we saw the fuselage....

it dragged its ass and skidded suffering oscillatory motion along the fuselage and warping the right wing as the "bite" that took her off the runway....

if the media had a better grasp of math and science they'd be qualified to be finger painters.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:22 PM (LRFds)

118 115 Soona,
Yup probably would have lost at least 2/3d the passengers minimum.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:23 PM (LRFds)

119 Now, let us put ourselves n the mind of the true victim here--Alexander. She has already been falsely imprisoned by a man with a history of violence, and had to use force to free herself. A threat has been issued--"If I can't have you nobody can.", issued by a man with a history of violence. By the Castle Doctrine, Alexander is under no obligation to vacate the premises. This man with a history of violence refuses to leave--and the threat has been uttered mere moments before, by a man with a history of violence. The Cadtle Doctrine does not require the assaulted who is rightfully in a house to call the cops first, and the assaulted woman--for Mr. Gray has admitted his false imprisonment of Ms. Alexander, and his utterance of a clear threat--had no guarantees of what might happen should she let down her guard. And the Castle Doctrine does not require one flee in terror. It seems to me that Mr. Gray, who started this entire thing by torting Ms. Alexander, should be thankful he is alive, rather than aggrieved. In firing a shot, Ms. Alexander quickly ended any further escalation that might have occurred had Mr. Gray been so foolish to try.

Posted by: T. at July 07, 2013 02:23 PM (PknDr)

120 Manslaughter might be a lesser included offense, with no need for a separate charge.

Correct. The jury may get the option of considering manslaughter if they acquit on murder.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 06:22 PM (PD2ad)

Even if it's not charged? I ask because the abogados were arguing this very point at the bar on Wednesday and they seemed pretty certain. Can the judge offer them the lesser charge if they lock on the others?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:23 PM (8lmkt)

121 20 years on an agg assault with no injuries seems pretty excessive.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 07, 2013 02:23 PM (6RkVc)

122 RE: Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 06:14 PM (sdi6R)

You are so right. For so long I have given the benefit of the doubt to the police and now starting to question that. My little sister (she is in her 40's but dont tell her I told you) has sent me a number of recorded encounters with the police and they actually behaved as fn' Brownshirts.

The state has gotten too big and as in the words of the political genius Axlerod, "The government is too big for one man to manage", or something like that.

Posted by: Taiwan_Joe at July 07, 2013 02:24 PM (O7aw+)

123 When I watched the video, I sort of thought that the plane might have cartwheeled, but I couldn't see it clearly enough. Look at this still photo. The right wingtip is clearly bent downward. http://tinyurl.com/ny5zk76 I think it at least did a semi-cartwheel.

Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 02:25 PM (sdi6R)

124 It seems to me that Mr. Gray, who started this entire thing by torting Ms. Alexander, should be thankful he is alive, rather than aggrieved. In firing a shot, Ms. Alexander quickly ended any further escalation that might have occurred had Mr. Gray been so foolish to try. *** She would have been better off had she killed him.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:25 PM (jjvz+)

125 It's funny how under this administration that whenever the SoS may have to answer some uncomfortable questions about their conduct, they're befellen by some personal crisis.

Posted by: lowandslow at July 07, 2013 02:25 PM (Fz2C7)

126 Correct. The jury may get the option of considering manslaughter if they acquit on murder. Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 06:22 PM (PD2ad) Even if it's not charged? I ask because the abogados were arguing this very point at the bar on Wednesday and they seemed pretty certain. Can the judge offer them the lesser charge if they lock on the others? Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:23 PM (8lmkt) Isn't this the very problem that the Casey Anthony jury had....they could NOT charge her with anything less because it had not been included in the original charge?

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 07, 2013 02:26 PM (X6akg)

127 Angela Corey-Nifong is in imperative need of disbarment.

Posted by: torquewrench at July 07, 2013 02:27 PM (gqT4g)

128 Only quasi-O/T, 'cause it's about overly aggressive LEO's - http://tinyurl.com/l68pe5y

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 07, 2013 02:28 PM (0HooB)

129 Did this 777 have a relief flight crew? From today's initial release of the CVR sounds like the crew got behind the power curve on landing. And one thing that will do that is improper crew rest leading to fatigue.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 02:28 PM (hciUg)

130 So did you see I put a bug in one of my old client's ear. Gonna bring back the gas chamber, god I love suffering. Lousy stinking bastards are lucky to get even that.

Posted by: satan at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (V+Pei)

131 @129 Yes, two crews on plane.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (wR+pz)

132 121 Purp,

she is ostensibly Republican....

her type of Republican makes it a less painful notion to leave the party.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (LRFds)

133 Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval http://tinyurl.com/lwddclw

Posted by: The Political Gun at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (Vk2pI)

134 It seems to me that Mr. Gray, who started this entire thing by torting Ms. Alexander, should be thankful he is alive, rather than aggrieved. In firing a shot, Ms. Alexander quickly ended any further escalation that might have occurred had Mr. Gray been so foolish to try.

Posted by: T. at July 07, 2013 06:23 PM (PknDr)

-------------------------------------------

Another sad part about this is the fact that now the husband is free to abuse another woman. Marissa should have killed him.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (xrA3k)

135 Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder which I thought was "reaching".

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (lZvxr)

136 129 Did this 777 have a relief flight crew? From today's initial release of the CVR sounds like the crew got behind the power curve on landing. And one thing that will do that is improper crew rest leading to fatigue. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 06:28 PM (hciUg) From what I've heard they had 2 crews.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (X6akg)

137 Isn't this the very problem that the Casey Anthony jury had....they could NOT charge her with anything less because it had not been included in the original charge?

Posted by: Tami at July 07, 2013 06:26 PM (X6akg)

Good point, Tami!! That's what I'm asking here. If it hasn't been charged, is it really within the presiding judge's purview to offer another option?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:29 PM (8lmkt)

138 125 lowandslow,

It's just the democrats relying on the media to let them wave their dicks in the people's faces..

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:30 PM (LRFds)

139

Correct. The jury may get the option of considering manslaughter if they acquit on murder.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 06:22 PM (PD2ad)

Even if it's not charged? I ask because the abogados were arguing this very point at the bar on Wednesday and they seemed pretty certain. Can the judge offer them the lesser charge if they lock on the others?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:23 PM (8lmkt)

Isn't this the very problem that the Casey Anthony jury had....they could NOT charge her with anything less because it had not been included in the original charge?

Posted by: Tami at July 07, 2013 06:26 PM (X6akg)

If the prosecutors do not include lesser included offenses, it is their own damned fault if their case tanks. It is hard on the victim, but from what I have seen, FL prosecutors are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 02:31 PM (D+lxs)

140 Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval

Prison guards' union basically runs this state. They don't need all those paternity suits and child support payments. It's for the greater good.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:32 PM (8lmkt)

141 This is sobering video. FedEx MD-11 Flight 80 making a very bad landing at Narita. Notice it hits, bounces, and then rolls over, snaps off a wing, and then bursts into flames.

http://youtu.be/VZvbPyt8n20

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 02:32 PM (hciUg)

142 Even if it's not charged? I ask because the abogados were arguing this very point at the bar on Wednesday and they seemed pretty certain. Can the judge offer them the lesser charge if they lock on the others? Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:23 PM (8lmkt) Yes m'am in NY for sure. your state may vary.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:32 PM (PD2ad)

143 135 Vic,

That's my view as well. Of course, in my opinion there's no manslaughter case either. This really is a sham of a trial being done under coercive threat of violence.

If the ethnic identities of the actors was reversed this would be seen as a sequel to Mississippi Burning.

It's an abomination.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:32 PM (LRFds)

144
They keep dragging that Newtown Youth Choir around, don't they.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 07, 2013 02:33 PM (BUcLz)

145 Oh, but why did she return? First, her children were in the room with her husband ----- Game-changer. That's all I need to hear. Parent always has right/requirement to protect their children.

Posted by: Y-not at July 07, 2013 02:33 PM (5H6zj)

146 129 Did this 777 have a relief flight crew? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at July 07, 2013 06:28 PM (hciUg) This article says it did. http://tinyurl.com/khhorng You have to scroll down pretty far, but it did apparently have four pilots on board.

Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 02:33 PM (sdi6R)

147 140 Peaches,

Quite, we're almost back to 1936 ethically IMHO on the matter of EUgenics, coupled with social justice theory once again.

Wheee

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:33 PM (LRFds)

148 It's funny how under this administration that whenever the SoS may have to answer some uncomfortable questions about their conduct, they're befellen by some personal crisis.

Posted by: lowandslow at July 07, 2013 06:25 PM (Fz2C7)

----------------------------------------------

Yup. It's becoming SOP. And fuck the docs and the hospital if this is a scam.

Posted by: Soona at July 07, 2013 02:33 PM (xrA3k)

149 "It seems to me that Mr. Gray, who started this entire thing by torting Ms. Alexander, should be thankful he is alive, rather than aggrieved. In firing a shot, Ms. Alexander quickly ended any further escalation that might have occurred had Mr. Gray been so foolish to try." Exactly. I don't agree with some that shooting to kill is the only proper and rational way to use a firearm. Especially not in self-defense situations like this, where you're shooting someone you know. If not shooting the gun at all solves the immediate problem, then that's great. If shooting and not injuring solves the immediate problem, also great. If shooting and not killing solves the immediate problem, that's great too. The point is that you've solve the immediate problem. The other complications, thug prosecutors and cops, are a different problem.

Posted by: GalosGann at July 07, 2013 02:34 PM (vW1n3)

150 They might not get the downcharge if they are locked, may need to come to a verdict on that first.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:34 PM (PD2ad)

151 Yes m'am in NY for sure. your state may vary.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 06:32 PM (PD2ad)

So, wait. What you're saying is that a jury can come in with an acquittal and the judge can go, hey, how 'bout this other charge, whatta y'all think about that?!? Doesn't sound remotely constitutional to me, but of course, I do know that is an old, tired, outmoded document. But, doesn't double jeopardy come into play, if the jury has acquitted on the charged offenses? I am, apparently, not drinking enough! who knew?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:35 PM (8lmkt)

152 MD-11 Piece of shit plane. The do cargo, cause they are so unsafe.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:36 PM (wR+pz)

153 she left the room where he was, went to the garage and retrieved her gun from the car, then returned to the room to fire the shot. Done. Go To Jail. I don't care who the Prosecutor is. If that is what a jury believes to be the sequence of events on or about... beyond a reasonable doubt then who am I to armchair-quarterback their decision when I didn't have to be stuck in deliberations with a bunch of fucking morons.

Posted by: Deety at July 07, 2013 02:37 PM (sETtQ)

154 The downcharge does not need to be in the indictment because the defense has the right to request that the jury consider it. Again, NY... state procedures can be different.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:37 PM (PD2ad)

155 Fuck a 9mm. I'll take my SW 45 or FN 57 any day.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:37 PM (wR+pz)

156 Piece of shit plane. The do cargo, cause they are so unsafe.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 06:36 PM (wR+pz)

That's why they gots to get real cowboys to fly 'em, not little prissypants dipshits like what slammed that plane into the seawall yesterday cause the 'lectronics weren't doing their job for them.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:38 PM (8lmkt)

157

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:35 PM (8lmkt)

IANAL, but in my understanding, the judge has to instruct the jury on the charges being considered. And the prosecution and defense both get to review the judge's instructions. If the judge does not properly instruct the jury, then the case is appealable too.

and I could be completely wrong?

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 02:39 PM (D+lxs)

158 So, wait. What you're saying is that a jury can come in with an acquittal and the judge can go, hey, how 'bout this other charge, whatta y'all think about that?!? Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 06:35 PM (8lmkt) They hammer out what the jury gets to vote on before the judge instructs them, before deliberations. Both sides can request downcharges, the judge has to decide if there is a reasonable view of the evidence that would support a downcharge. If the defendant stood over the victim and shot him 7 times, he is not getting a manslaughter instruction.

Posted by: real joe at July 07, 2013 02:40 PM (PD2ad)

159 @153 she left the room where he was, went to the garage and retrieved her gun from the car, then returned to the room to fire the shot. -------- Done. Go To Jail. --------- Does the fact that her kids were left behind change your opinion? Because if he was a threat, it seems to me she was obligated to go back and defend the kids.

Posted by: Y-not at July 07, 2013 02:40 PM (5H6zj)

160 The right wingtip is clearly bent downward.

That's just cuz the plane listed a little to the right as it was sliding to a stop and the wing tip dug in.

The strength in wings is concentrated towards the center. The tips will be significantly weaker to save weight and improve roll response. The amount of stress and lift on a wing is usually concentrated in the middle 70% (unless its a very odd configuration). Tips don't do much lifting, nor does a couple of feet near the wing root/fuselage junction due to more turbulent airflow there.

On a tapered wing, there's significant outflow near the tips which wrecks their efficiency. Normal airflow in front/back, outflow is when the airflow starts to bend in a curve towards the tip.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at July 07, 2013 02:42 PM (6RkVc)

161 if this case were less of a media hotbutton, and the little scrote what died was not barky's son (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), there would have already been a directed verdict of not guilty. this is a fuckin' mess right here.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:42 PM (8lmkt)

162 MD 11 in cornfield. http://tinyurl.com/k575sjs

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:43 PM (wR+pz)

163 151 Peaches,

It varies state by state but has stood the test of time. In the event a person is found not guilty based on evidentary presentation in some states there is an automatic body of concurrently charged by inference lesser charges. It is not considered double jeopardy because it is facing the charge on an accused action once per set.

Less risky IMHO for misuse than if the DA goes back after an acquittal for a lesser charge as a double jeopardy violation really.

Alternative verdict must be offered in capital cases, "because."

GZ is not on Capital trial, but Florida is a lesser included offense state by nature anyway.

http://tinyurl.com/cl6wujp

write up on it by Florida firm.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:43 PM (LRFds)

164 Is there a hole in the ceiling or not? Not that I am a fan of shooting in a house, ceiling or not. But it may be evidence of her intent. I might have cut her a break since she had a kid just 9 days earlier.

Posted by: waldo at July 07, 2013 02:44 PM (vDjkK)

165 I think this says more about the corruption and vindictiveness of Corey than anything else. I think BOTH cases do.

Posted by: Bets at July 07, 2013 02:44 PM (tDvvM)

166 @160 Also note none of the wing fuel tanks ruptured. Course after 10 hours they were probably pretty empty

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:45 PM (wR+pz)

167 thanks, sven and real joe! the only thing I know for sure is that it isn't just the weather that is fucked up in Florida

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:46 PM (8lmkt)

168

@153 she left the room where he was, went to the garage and retrieved her gun from the car, then returned to the room to fire the shot.
--------
Done.

Go To Jail.
---------

Does the fact that her kids were left behind change your opinion? Because if he was a threat, it seems to me she was obligated to go back and defend the kids.

Posted by: Y-not at July 07, 2013 06:40 PM (5H6zj)

Advice, If you are ever in a similar situation: CALL 911!!!

The cops will be pre-disposed to think you are a victim.

Call the cops.

Make a brief statement of what happened.

Point out evidence, especially things the bad guy has done or has in his possession (weapons, shell casings, blood, scrapes, damage).

Point out witnesses

DEMAND A LAWYER AND STOP TALKING.

Posted by: rd at July 07, 2013 02:46 PM (D+lxs)

169 " ... when I didn't have to be stuck in deliberations with a bunch of fucking morons. " Actually, you are kinda voluntarily in deliberations with a bunch of fucking morons right now. Just sayin'

Posted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 02:46 PM (CbiPs)

170 Contact Governor Scott Office of Governor Rick Scott State of Florida The Capitol 400 S. Monroe St. Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001 (850) 488-7146 Under Florida law, all correspondence sent to the GovernorÂ’s Office, which is not exempt or confidential pursuant to Chapter 119 of the Florida Statutes, is a public record. All public record electronic mail sent through this website will be posted to Project Sunburst at http://www.flgov.com/sunburst , and will be accessible to the public. If you do not want the public record contents of your e-mail or your e-mail address to be published on this website or to be provided to the public in response to a public records request, please do not send electronic mail to this entity. Please be aware that personal information sent in your correspondence, such as home addresses and telephone numbers, may be posted to the Sunburst public records website. http://www.flgov.com/contact-gov-scott/

Posted by: Chris Balsz at July 07, 2013 02:46 PM (XIFYm)

171 Theresa Heinz Kerry has been taken to the hospital in critical but stable condition. No further details. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/john-kerry-wife-93799.html Posted by: Ragamuffin at July 07, 2013 06:09 PM (fzFF6) *** I'm guessing it was Colonel Mustard.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 07, 2013 02:47 PM (pxDth)

172 That airplane is amazing. If the fuselage had broken up or the wings broke off, there would have been a massive instant fire. ----- I can see why people thought it had cartwheeled. It sure came close. Amazing that the wing stayed on. In terms of fire, there *was* a fire while the plane was still moving. I had had the impression yesterday that the fire was after plan had stopped and ppl had started escaping, but this video clearly shows fire before that. Miraculous that there were so few immediate casualties. Has anything been made of the "glide path technology" that Reuters reported has been out of service at that airport for several weeks? Saw some initial downplay - although not so much from Scully - but to me it's clear the guy's glide path was wrong. Warning would have helped.

Posted by: Y-not at July 07, 2013 02:47 PM (5H6zj)

173 I might have cut her a break since she had a kid just 9 days earlier.

Posted by: waldo at July 07, 2013 06:44 PM (vDjkK)

holy shit, and they didn't play the "post partum crazy" defense? no no no no no, this girl needs some good lawyering and she needs it stat. hard to believe . . . and the kids, what, they're with crazy guy? great job, Angela fuckstick.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:47 PM (8lmkt)

174 If the jury believes she chooses to have a rocky relationship with this guy and tried to shut him up by firing a gun off during an argument, then she's guilty of a crime, and the jury gets to pick which one they think fits. At that point you're just begging for an exception to be made, and you can do it to Governor Scott.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at July 07, 2013 02:48 PM (XIFYm)

175 Terrsa Kerry in hospital. Obviously allergic to boat captain's sperm.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 07, 2013 02:48 PM (wR+pz)

176 167 Peaches,

always happy to help...

navigating the various states interpretations on law is a chore.

I learned that WRT tax law hard.

Posted by: sven10077@sven10077 at July 07, 2013 02:48 PM (LRFds)

177 Any guy with the last name Gray should immediately be suspected of bad deeds.

Posted by: Dorian at July 07, 2013 02:49 PM (BoDpj)

178 osted by: shredded chi at July 07, 2013 06:46 PM (CbiPs)

LOL!!!! you are quickly turning into a fave for me, buddy.

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:50 PM (8lmkt)

179 Theresa Heinz Kerry has been taken to the hospital in critical but stable condition. No further details. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/john-kerry-wife-93799.html Posted by: Ragamuffin at July 07, 2013 06:09 PM (fzFF6) ... John Kerry, in The Galley, with the Glass Ketchup Bottle ...

Posted by: Arbalest at July 07, 2013 02:50 PM (FlRtG)

180 great job, Angela fuckstick. *** Had she escaped and left her children behind, imagine what would have been said about her. Had he done anything to them, she would have been charged with child endangerment.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:50 PM (jjvz+)

181

Mandatory sentencing is a stupid idea dreamed up by a bunch of do-gooders whose only connection with the court system is watching re-runs of Perry Mason. It's amazing to me how we allow people in this nation not connected to the real world to make our laws. We get stupid laws because we elect stupid people to write them. Then we get stupid people enforcing the stupid laws. Then we get stories like this.

Meanwhile, people die in Benghazi and the president is allowed to stonewall, lie, and cover it up. People die in Mexico due to Fast and Furious and the same president gets by with doing the same thing as he is doing with the Benghazi investigation. But fire a warning shot and you get 20 YEARS! WTF?

Posted by: ThisNationIsDoomed at July 07, 2013 02:50 PM (NP8ek)

182 #171

Hmm, didn't the State Department recently get caught lying about the whereabouts of her husband? This makes the lie less interesting than the reason for the lie.

Posted by: epobirs at July 07, 2013 02:51 PM (kcfmt)

183 new thread up. don't bother trying for "firsties"

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:52 PM (8lmkt)

184 It's just really been a confusing weekend. Rite -Aid had rolling rock for 6.49 a 12 pack. What was that?

Posted by: the mission here was new in 1776 at July 07, 2013 02:52 PM (V+Pei)

185 >>>So the Secretary of State and his wife had the fish?<<<

Sometimes it's hard to judge the freshness of Egyptian clams.

Posted by: Fritz at July 07, 2013 02:53 PM (G9Mmf)

186 BTW, here's the link to the post I put up about Christian Fernandez, a 12 year old who killed his baby brother. Corey charged him as an adult. He is a monster, but charging him as an adult would not have flown with a jury. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/337378.php#337378

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 07, 2013 02:54 PM (jjvz+)

187 Rite -Aid had rolling rock for 6.49 a 12 pack. What was that?

Posted by: the mission here was new in 1776 at July 07, 2013 06:52 PM (V+Pei)

Oh, sure, now you tell me!! That is amazing . . . bottles or cans?

Posted by: Peaches at July 07, 2013 02:54 PM (8lmkt)

188 Just ordered a fried clam strip platter. I'm so ashamed. I'm a full belly clam guy. But apparently these seabillies don't do clams with bellies.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 07, 2013 02:54 PM (qbVkk)

189 One thing that I realize from the Marissa Alexander case, and the George Zimmerman case ... ... A lawyer who is willing to go on offense, have difficult / lying witnesses held in contempt and charged, and at least try to have the prosecutor(s) (and affiliated lawyers) suspended from the bar for withholding / suppressing / tampering with evidence, coaching witnesses, mischarging, etc., etc., etc. ... is a requirement. No tolerance.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 07, 2013 02:54 PM (FlRtG)

190 The FAA is gonna spend the next two plus years spending a zillion dollars to figure out what the average moron can determine from Drudge and an amateur YouTube video... Too low, too slow. Yeah, it's great when the pilot stalls the plane at exactly 100 feet past the runway and kisses the tarmac at a couple mph above stall speed, leaving a couple thousand feet of runway unnecessary. Except when he's off by 100 feet, and places everyone in danger of a fiery death.

Posted by: Lace Wigs [/i] at July 07, 2013 02:56 PM (U2UQk)

191 Here is the thing about plea bargains - the prosecution offers a reduced sentence in exchange for a guaranteed conviction.

If the case goes to trial the prosecution makes you pay for having a 10% chance of going free by getting a much increased sentence.

So 100% chance of doing 3 years or a 90% chance of doing 20 years are your two options at trial. The plea bargain is a pretty good deal for the guilty, which is why they often accept them - but those two options you are being given suck royal ass if you are innocent.

Since you are not guilty - agreeing to a plea bargain is just plain lying. So most innocent people opt for a trial. It is only after they are convicted that they find out that prosecution works just as well on innocent defendants as it does on guilty ones.

Posted by: [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] An Observation at July 07, 2013 02:56 PM (ylhEn)

192 181 Mandatory sentencing is a stupid idea dreamed up bya bunch of do-gooders whose only connection with the court system is watching re-runs of Perry Mason. Posted by: ThisNationIsDoomed at July 07, 2013 06:50 PM (NP8ek) Uh, I believe that mandatory sentencing also began with the War on Drugs. See #74 and #89. It, too, was strongly supported by conservatives at first.

Posted by: rickl at July 07, 2013 02:58 PM (sdi6R)

193 IANAL, but in my understanding, the judge has to instruct the jury on the charges being considered. Yeah, but they won't listen, and don't GET it unless someone puts all of the charges up on the whiteboard in back and white without the 2-3 paragraphs of descriptive argle-bargle to be conveniently referenced in the juror handbook.

Posted by: Deety at July 07, 2013 03:00 PM (sETtQ)

194 T'was the salmon mousse.

Posted by: Moron of Morgoth at July 07, 2013 03:06 PM (1Wfj5)

195 Does the fact that her kids were left behind change your opinion? Honestly? No. The fact that this "mother" put her kids in such close proximity to such a threat makes her a bit less sympathetic to me on an emotional level but that's neither here nor there. I'm not gonna argue that the dude didn't need some ventilation, just... Time and Place Unfortunately, we can't just poke holes into dirt-bags, no matter how much they deserve them, willy-nilly, any old time.

Posted by: Deety at July 07, 2013 03:21 PM (sETtQ)

196 It seems to me that Alexander got 3 years for Aggravated Assault and 17 years for Pissing Off The Judge. Gray himself didn't want the full 20 years for Alexander:

http://www.loop21.com/life/marissa-alexander-husband- rico-gray-speaks?page=2
[delete the space]

btw, that link notes that Grey had been violent toward Alexander... and that Alexander had herself been violent toward others. A match made in heaven!

So. I'd have put her in the pokey for the 3 years of assault, because it looks like she *is* in fact a menace, and maybe another 2 for bringing it to court. Gray's punishment is that the whole Internet knows that Gray is violent himself, so hopefully he won't be getting too many more dates in future.

Mandatory sentencing is abominable, though; we are agreed on that.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at July 07, 2013 03:37 PM (QTHTd)

197 we can't just poke holes into dirt-bags

Or we could call them each "Mr and Mrs Sieve"

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at July 07, 2013 03:39 PM (QTHTd)

198 Or we could call them each "Mr and Mrs Sieve" See! THIS ^ is why I don't shoot people! I would most likely wind up defending myself and trying to convince the jury that just because it made ME smile that pun was objectively funny.

Posted by: Deety at July 07, 2013 03:48 PM (sETtQ)

199 20 years is the problem, I think, not necessarily that she was convicted. Not that I'm saying that she ought to have been, just that him being abusive doesn't automatically mean she's a saint and I've no way of knowing either way. Still, 20 years is obscene. There's a number of reasons that women (or men, I suppose) stay in abusive relationships. One of those reasons is that some people seem to need the emotional upheaval. I've known women who left the *good* guy because he was too nice and too stable in order to be with someone who was jealous and an emotional train wreck. My theory... because the sane fellow didn't *need* her... and being needed was more important than being treated well. We all know guys who are jerks and treat their girlfriends like crap and they *always* have a girlfriend. My theory... because it signals status when he doesn't *have* to be nice. So sure... it's a mess. And women can find themselves in an abusive situation, like a frog in slowly heated water, and they don't know how to get out. Women can find themselves in an abusive situation they won't leave (and I've had this told me) because "he knows where my family lives" so they stay to protect their fathers and brothers. And women can find themselves in an abusive situation because, when he says, "If I can't have you no one can!" what she hears is that "he NEEDS me, he really NEEDS me..." In any case, it seems she must have had terrible representation because no matter why she was where she was or how foolish it was to wave a gun around at him and either have it go off, fire a warning shot, or aim at him and miss... 20 years is just wrong.

Posted by: Synova at July 07, 2013 03:49 PM (7/PU+)

200 Her atty can't stop her from going to trial. And if convicted and there are mandatory minimums and enhancements, there is nothing an atty can do about the sentence, either. I don't believe her when she said she felt her life was threatened. I think she was mad that he was kicking her out for texting her ex husband. She shouldn't have shot the gun inside the house. If she had taken the deal, she would have been out by now. I still have no idea if she shot at him or the ceiling. The fact that there are a dearth of facts makes me reluctant to express any opinion on this case.

Posted by: waldo at July 07, 2013 04:11 PM (vDjkK)

201 20 years is the problem, I think, not necessarily that she was convicted. Sometimes I think that there really should be more judicial discretion when it comes to sentencing and then I read about that Texas judge who was text-messaging the prosecutor to offer tips on how to better direct the witness' testimony. Soo...

Posted by: Deety at July 07, 2013 04:15 PM (sETtQ)

202 Can't load the post above, but here's some good music for it. Phish live at SPAC, just opened with AC/CD Bag

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/autumnahlers

Posted by: mugiwara at July 07, 2013 04:15 PM (hpYnL)

203 test

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] . An Observation at July 07, 2013 04:28 PM (ylhEn)

204 I would need specific details to really enter an opinion.

Posted by: Mekan at July 07, 2013 04:32 PM (zG16+)

205 153 she left the room where he was, went to the garage and retrieved her gun from the car, then returned to the room to fire the shot.

Done.

Go To Jail.

I don't care who the Prosecutor is.

THEN AGAIN - It does seem to be a bone fide home invasion.

Posted by: Obamao at July 07, 2013 07:02 PM (e+pdj)

206

Big difference. Not even close. She returned with a gun to shoot her husband because he was angry with him. She was not protecting herself. She was not protecting her children. She was angry and decided to shoot someone.

Zimmerman was defending himself from an unprovoked racist attack from a man with a long violent criminal record. Even the idiot he was on the phone with admits that Trayvon initiated the verbal contact and she admitted that she did not know who threw the first punch.

Trayvon's only physical injuries, aside from the gunshot wound, was injuries to his knuckles consistent with striking Zimmerman.

This chick was not acting in self-defense, but out of anger and desire to kill someone. She is fortuneate that she did not get charged with 1st Degree Murder.

Posted by: Federale at July 08, 2013 07:24 AM (NAlbk)

207 Something just doesn't totally sound right about this and given the situation I think 20 years is WAAAAYYY too harsh! She was a victim of domestic violence, had the protective order, but didn't think things through. I don't understand why he wasn't charged with anything when at that time she had a protective order against him. If things were that bad, when he showed up, she should have alerted the police (that's what the PO is for). Being a legal gunowner/CC, there comes a level of responsibility and knowledge of the law. She was wrong when she went to her car and RETURNED with the gun, that's clearly in violation of the law because she exited the "danger zone" and unfortunately for her, she didn't think and returned and ended up firing the warning shot. I was taught to NEVER fire a warning shot, but to eliminate the life-threatening situation. Our justice system is flawed and so are many, many, members of the system and mandatory sentencing is a MAJOR flaw because different cases have different circumstances.

Posted by: SylentThunda70 at July 15, 2013 09:20 AM (lft1V)

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