1 Well said, and an excellent point.

Too many people disassociate themselves from the reality of abortion. And the Left, because it is wise in the ways of manipulation, has used that and amplified that to reach the point where we are having a discussion about whether an abortion is okay at 30 weeks.

2 Very well said, Humpstress. I have no compunctions about rubbing the pro-infanticide crowd's nose in the results of their "choice." Fuck letting them pretend anymore.

3 I've posted before that if ever there were a potential tipping point to swing the culture and the body politic back towards our side, it is the butchery of Kermit Gosnell, as well as the shameless attempt by the MFM to sweep it under the rug. We shall see...

4 We can see the absolutists on the other side so clearly, but on our own? Well that's a sticky wicket. The self-defeating effect is the same, though.

5 Yes, well said.  And, because we can be very ideological on the right, too, we often fail to push back at abortion in the same way they pushed in on us, by small steps.  The low hanging fruit here is inspecting ALL abortion clinics and holding them to standards as high as hospitals for cleanliness, regulations and paperwork.  Abortionists are whining that this would put many out of business.  And, after Gosnell, I don't think the masses are going to worry too much about that.  I live in PA and I promise you I will work to make sure we push back as hard as we can.

6 Thank you

7 Good Morning Morons.  Woke up this morning and turned on the news.  Thought initially "score" Molly Line is on, then got the story.


Pray for Boston

8 4 We can see the absolutists on the other side so clearly, but on our own? Well that's a sticky wicket. The self-defeating effect is the same, though. Posted by: lauraw at April 16, 2013 07:32 AM (yGblt) I consider myself conservative with certain libertarian beliefs. I believe in liberty, freedom and the civil society - absolutely. If that makes me "absolutist," so be it.

9 Posted by: lauraw at April 16, 2013 07:32 AM (yGblt)

Life begins at conception is an absolute. How does one moderate that view?

10 The biggest reason liberals don't care is that all of these aborted babies were black. Liberals are the greatest racists in the world, and they have inflicted a genocide on the black race that even the KKK would never have dared try.

11 I rarely make insightful of funny comments on the Internet,... But when I do it is on a dead thread.

12 When you have people who insist that it's not a "baby" until it comes down the birth canal (What was "it" before it descended-a cabbage? a cucumber?) and you have that "ethicist" Singer from Princeton who believes babies should be allowed to be killed through the first year, you have people who want NO limits on abortion-and the killing fields will get bigger and bigger-old people, suicidal people, anyone just not like them or in their circumstances that are not "convenient"

13 11 I rarely make insightful of funny comments on the Internet,... But when I do it is on a dead thread. Posted by: Endeavor to Persevere at April 16, 2013 07:39 AM (zZJJp) The irony cuts like a hammer...

14 I've been thinking about this a lot lately and come to the conclusion that there is a large swath of Pro-Abortion wolves hiding among the Pro-Choice sheep (I know...Duh, huh?). These are the most radical abortion rights voices urging the herd to bleat louder every and any time anyone raises the issue of responsibility inherent in choice. Some people are unflinchingly Pro-Life and have no wiggle room for circumstances that might justify ending a pregnancy and a life. Then there is 50 shades of grey (to borrow a term) of Pro-Choice down the slippery slope to those who would support (quietly) Kermit Gosnell's operating a virtual abattoir. Pro-Choice means you have the power to make a decision, but you must also face up to the responsibility of consequences. That means you should really have a good idea and vision of what it is you're deciding. That is what the Pro-Abortion crowd doesn't want. They want knee jerk, reactional decisions to end lives for reasons of 'convenience' that people can convince themselves are 'normal' based on our changing societal mores. Those are the people that really fear the discussion and sunlight that cases like Gosnell will bring their way. They need to be identified, named and shamed and made to defend their position on infanticide. I count President Obama in this group, although he's a squish with little real conviction. No real fear of him being asked the question by the lap dog media, but wouldn't it be interested if he got the question and proceeded to talk off teleprompter to reveal his real position on this? We can only hope.

15 "On the lady's word, that which would otherwise be considered a child, lives or dies." Not to belabor the obvious, but there's an influential faction of pro-choicers who outright celebrate this point. An empowered woman knows that it's their baby/fetus, dammit, and they can chop off it's head whenever they want 'cause we are not the boss of them. And still more who happily use this argument, knowing it's stupid, as a source of feigned outrage to shut down any debate. I suspect these folks are more or less in agreement with Sanger's eugenic principles, and they really don't want anyone asking too many questions about the suspicious demographics of the abortion industry's most heavily targeted customer base.

16 Sorry' Make that comes "ˇthrough" the birth canal. These nutcases wouldn't consider a baby viable till it comes out into the hospital room. And yes, I'm talked with people like that on political forums.

17 13 This is exactly how Gosnell killed so many.  He did not allow a 24 hour waiting period (PA law).  There was even testimony in the trial from one woman who said she changed her mind, crying "I want to keep my baby".  But Gosnell strapped her down and administered put an IV in her and the next thing she knew, she was waking up not pregnant.  Gosnell was making millions on his baby butchering mill, he was not talking these girls into making a "choice" for life.

18 Pure evil. The man and those who support this travesty are pure evil. How could those employees just follow his instructions? Who doesn't know that snipping the spine of a live baby is wrong? Murder? Evil? This is why I weep for humanity.

19 Gosnell II now happening in Delaware. Reports of conveyor belt abortions, women rushed to the emergency room, unsanitary conditions and no inspections. Gosnell has torn the lid off this horrible business model.

20 CBD, I just don't know how to answer that. No one does. And yet, like all practical evil, abortion is as old as antiquity, and will continue.

I do believe it will eventually slow to a bare-minimum in most developed parts of the world, because better medical technology will clearly and unmistakeably show that the baby is a baby much earlier than most people currently assume. And also that medical technology will make abortion nearly obsolete as a necessity too. Like, something a man could take, to make him temporarily shoot blanks.

You get the idea.

21 Guys, I'm in a state with no extradition to the US. I will tell you the true. If my wife killed my baby, I would hang her upside down in the desert, with an IV drip to make the pain last longer. I would get a couple opium smoking A holes with blow torches and Tweezers to peel her like an onion, layer by layer and make her suffering legendary even in Hell! Does that make me a bad person? Do you know, they never ask the Dad, if that baby needs to live. But if that baby lives, they demand child support. How fucked up is that? Hey I will pay, where is the equality, the fairness you libtard assholes talk about? It only exists in your tiny minds!

22 The low hanging fruit here is inspecting ALL abortion clinics and holding them to standards as high as hospitals for cleanliness, regulations and paperwork. It is so patently apparent, yet the liberals will want to fight that tooth and nail. I see the downside of inspection and cleanliness and assurance of sterility of instruments to be legions of woman now stripped of their ability to ever conceive again. I'm a little ambivalent about whether that is punishment enough for murdering their own children.

23 James Taranto has a great op-ed in the Wall Street Journal this a.m. "From Roe to Gosnell - Time for Regime Change on Abortion" worth a read.

24 My call would be this - "Thou shalt not abort a foetus which any competent neonatal unit could routinely save if delivered intact by Caesarean section." I agree that this causes a grey area somewhere between 20 and 26 weeks, but it's better than nothing. I would ideally prefer that elective terminations (i.e. NOT done to immediately preserve the life of the mother, as happens in eclampsia and other nasty conditions) be restricted absolutely to the first trimester but for example, the 13 year old who's raped by some male family member and keeps (or is forced to keep) it a secret until she starts showing might be past that cut-off already, and I think this is one of the cases where it's eminently fair NOT to force her to carry that child to term. I do not think an absolute ban on legally available abortion is feasible any more. The GOP has to either proactively purge or be prepared to disown (immediately) any of its sitting members or candidates who puts this line forward as representing anything but their own explicit viewpoint.

25 "I do not think an absolute ban on legally available abortion is feasible any more. The GOP has to either proactively purge or be prepared to disown (immediately) any of its sitting members or candidates who puts this line forward as representing anything but their own explicit viewpoint."

What?

26

22 I have compassion for the young, poor girls getting these abortions in Philly.  Watch the video documentary "3801 Lancaster" on YouTube.  Most of them did not grow up with the values that I did.  They had poor parenting, are hanging out will the wrong crowds and are being advised by so called "medical professionals" that they best thing to do is abort.

 

Also look at the protestors in this doc.  They are all black pro-life supporters from the Philly neighborhoods.  The GOP says elections are won or lost in PA in the Philly burbs.  Well here are your new constituents - go talk to them for crying out loud.  They need our support.

27

sooner or later, life in the womb is an American life - endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights.

 

silver lining is that  aborted Americans (and all aborted human beings)  die in grace, pass go, collect two hundred dollars and beat their "mother" to the next plane of existence. if there is one, ofcourse. i believe there is.

28 One very important law the abortion clinics are ignoring is the consent of parents for minors. This "power" that "adults" keep giving children, the supposed "rights" kids have against their parents, against including their parents in important decisions, whether it be at school, at home, and in the abortion clinic is preposterous. So many young girls -- and they are getting pregnant younger and younger, have no clue as to the distinction between a human being and the "glob of cells." They are too immature to process this, they are more driven by fear, and if they are hiding this from their parents, and getting away with it, the parents have no way to advise, nurture and help. Granted, parents should talk to their children as they mature, but we all know kids. Empowering immature kids makes this battle all the more difficult. Let alone the brainwashing they are receiving outside the home.

29 4 -

Amen, Laura.  It's on both sides, and it covers a large number of issues these days.  We won't budge, because we're afraid of what they'll do if we do. 

It's not a recipe for civil society.  It's  how wars start. 

30 Eric Holder's wife co-owner of Gosnell's abortion clinic? Someone with more detective skills check this out? Story in handle.

31 Steaming dual  Molly Line and Molly Henneberg

32 This is an Ace-caliber post, Laura. 

And I mean that as high compliment.  Thank you.

33 Very well-done, Laura. Taranto yesterday is also worth a read: http://tinyurl.com/cn43k4d

34 As long as you use their preferred term " pro choice" instead of the true term " pro abortion" they win. The media always uses" anti abortion" never" pro life"

35 Can't we at least regulate these places as tightly as a tattoo parlor?

36

The pictures of the Boston Marathon look eerily like those at the back room of Gosnell's clinic.  The only difference is the age of the victims. And the media coverage.

37 I thought a baby wasn't a baby until it was fingerprinted by The Stork Man.

38

28 What the left really hates is putting any stigma on the "hooking up" culture that leads to this.  Watch them go ape-shit if a school wants to teach chastity.  If, like you say, these kids are too immature to understand what abortion does to a baby, they have no maturity to have sex either.  The nonsense of Obamacare covering our 'kids' until they're 26 on the parents insurance, but parents not being allowed to know if their 16 year old is getting birth control or an abortion tells you who the left is.  If there ever was a 'war on women', the battleground is here.

39 Empowering immature kids makes this battle all the more difficult. Let alone the brainwashing they are receiving outside the home. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 16, 2013 07:58 AM (XYSwB) And I cannot help but believe that letting them act in such an "empowered" manner at these ages (well below what any rational person would consider them to be competent) must screw them up for decades!

40 "I do believe it will eventually slow to a bare-minimum in most developed parts of the world, because better medical technology will clearly and unmistakeably show that the baby is a baby much earlier than most people currently assume."

Posted by: lauraw at April 16, 2013 07:49 AM (yGblt)

I don't share your optimism. I believe that the world is entering a dark time, where the selfishness inherent in an areligious society is going to roar to the front.

There is birth control available seemingly everywhere we turn, yet the carnage in these abortion mills is unabated by this access. The issue seems to be a total insensitivity to the possibility of conception, and no concern for exactly how momentous that event is.

41 Abortion can be reduced via school prayer.

42 Eric Holder's wife co-owner of Gosnell's abortion clinic? Not the same clinic. Gosnell is in Philadelphia, Pa. Holders wife's abortion clinic is in Georgia.

43

Lately I have been able to turn a blind eye to this murder. I tell myself the country's future lies in the balance of a quiet war we're having with the Left. That aborting these tots limits the number of future liberals and their dependents.

 

Nothing new about that observation, just my willingness to buy into it. And certainly not every child that gets the Cuisinart would have grown up to be a liberal or a dependent, but that's just collateral damage, right? Can't be helped.

44 Note that the difference between a) and b) is merely the emotional whim of one parent. This is what distinguishes this killing as 'abortion' and not infanticide, to the extremist end of the pro-choice crowd.

Yeah, this is why Gosnell is not news, while a medical practitioner killing premature newborns in the maternity ward would be--he was acting on the instructions of the mothers.

Except in the case of the teenager who was restrained and drugged so the baby could be killed against her will...that one's really bothering me.  Underage teens have the "right" to kill their baby without parental knowledge or consent, but if they want to give birth against parental consent...that's the apparently only time the pro-abortion folks agree that the parents should be involved in the "choice."

This all kind of feeds into my theory that "family courts" are all about the egos of the adults and have jack shit to do with the best welfare of the children.

45 CharlieBrown'sDildo 40

These abortionists should be tried and sen to jail. They are killers of innocent life.

46 This is just not a thing I want to devote any thought to right now. See ya's for now, have a good day

47

35 Tattoo parlors, nail salons, hair salons, spas, summer camp kitchens, charity events that sell food to the public, ALL regulated harder in PA than abortion clinics. 

 

Many people reported on the horrors of the Gosnell clinic and top officials at the PA state Dept of Health covered it up.  There are layers of sickening illegalities here.  Mary Chastain at Breitbart wrote a series of articles on the negligence at the highest levels. 

 

It makes me sick.

48 A couple of observations: 1 - Gosnell's charnel house of horrors is just a preview of operating theaters once Obamacare is fully operational. 2 - Planned Parenthood's founder, Margaret Sanger, sought the extermination of Blacks and other mongrel races (as well as the poor, handicapped and chronically ill) in order to purify the white race. She was greatly admired by the Nazi doctors who used her work to start up the T-4 Program or euthanasia and ultimately the Final Solution. That Gosnell is black and that blacks continue to support the liberals/Democrats/leftists for this reason alone beggars the imagination.

49 Steaming dual Molly Line and Molly Henneberg

Posted by: Vic at April 16, 2013 08:03 AM (53z96)

This is the post you choose for this comment?

50 "the assumption that abortion primarily kills very tiny, unviable blobs, is the very thing that keeps abortion legal."

Most abortions are performed at that unviable stage. Mine certainly was. What keep it legal is the right to choose, especially when birth control fails, which is what happened to me.

Years ago, there were two options for a woman: back alley abortions, or if you were wealthy, a discreet doctor. Teenaged girls were ostracized and forced to leave town. Now that it's available and affordable for everyone, there's moral outrage. Late term abortions should be illegal, unless there's a severe medical condition or the life of the mother is in danger. This is because by that stage of the pregnancy, she should have determined whether or not she would carry it to birth. Abortion foes tend to lose concern for the child after it's born, except to complain about the number of children in families who don't bother with birth control and thrive on welfare.

There are mental midgets out there who seriously believe that it is a form of abortion, because you're preventing the fertilization of an ovum and sperm, and therefore, "killing" potential life. I'm not kidding. Teenage pregnancy has gone through the ozone. Sex education in the public schools should include (if it already hasn't) the responsibility of the teenage boy, as well. Too many of them get off scott-free.

As for the likes of Gosnell, hang that mutherfucker up and beat him like a pinata.

51 48 Should read "OF euthanasia.

52 50 sfcmac

He should be stoned.

53 A significant part of three generations of the youth of America have been vacuumed from their mothers' wombs; millions of children destroyed, never to be named or known. A mortal sin I'm not sure we can ever wash clean. Slavery pales in comparison.

54

According to the CDC's numbers on abortion, we've selectively killed 85,000,000 Americans.
My grandfather fought the Nazi's, whom he described to me as the "most morally bankrupt movement to ever see the light of day" due to what he saw when they found the concentration camps. The Nazi's, depending on the numbers you want to use, killed 6,000,000 jews. So, how is it that we can kill 14 times more people in the name of "reproductive choice" and feel we're more noble than the butchers that killed in Dachau in the name of "racial purity?"

 

55

LauraW,

 

Excellent post. But it doesn't just apply to abortion. It applies to adults as well.

 

Remember Terri Schiavo? She was an inconvenience to her husband and when her feeding and water tubes were removed it took 13 days for her to die. The outrage then was lacking like it is now with Gosnell.

 

When we have so little regard for the lives of the not yet born or those who might be a "burden", who will be next? Well history has shown who will be next.

56 Great post. A long time ago I read "The Pink Flamingo" by Stephan Jay Gould, and he posited the notion that stupid people (i.e. fly-over evangelical types) were not well educated and didn't understand that biological development was a continuum and couldn't not be shoe horned into a model of discrete stages. He was making a pro-choice argument saying that saying that declaring a fetus was a person at three or six months was arbitrary, and the notion that at conception a zygote was a human being was ignorant. On reflection his was projecting his own Harvard liberal bias on others. Basically the "human at the point of conception argument" is a conservative argument, that concedes that we really don't know when a blob becomes human, so the rational thing to do is choose a point in development that is absolute. (i.e. conception). It was Gould's crowd who support late term abortions are the ones who are ignorant and asserting arbitrary stages of development. That a fetus in the womb minutes away from being born is not human, as deemed by the mother, no less. Funny how they are so good at doing this projection stuff.

57 I don't see the line where a "fetus" becomes a baby. Nobody has ever been able to make the distinction scientifically. Why is there no baby when fertilization takes place? Why is there no baby when implantation takes place? Why is there no baby, and yet, if the child is wanted, the woman is pregnant?


IMO, and that of science and the church, if you are pregnant, then there is a baby. Abortion is murder, straight up.

58 50 Teenage pregnancy has gone through the ozone. Sex education in the public schools should include (if it already hasn't) the responsibility of the teenage boy, as well. Too many of them get off scott-free. Posted by: sfcmac at April 16, 2013 08:13 AM (TLbgU) This is my line of attack against libs who shove Sandra Fluke's rancid pudenda in my face. "Oh, so by demanding free contraception, you are consenting to allowing yourself to be a cum-dumpster for every Tom, Dick and Harry you meet and that YOU are now responsible if you get pregnant or diseased? Is that how low you consider yourself? How does that "empower" women? It only makes them sex objects." Silence from their mouths.

59 We need a pro-life Amendment.

60

47
35 Tattoo parlors, nail salons, hair salons, spas, summer camp kitchens, charity events that sell food to the public, ALL regulated harder in PA than abortion clinics.

 

 

I asked my barber one time if he would give me an old-timey shave. Hot towels, boar brush with soap, straight razor. He said " I'm really not supposed to do this. The health department won't let me". Two adults contracting with each other is squashed by some idjit in the health department? He did, in fact, give me the best shave i have ever had in my entire life. I was baby-smooth for three days. Viva la Anarchy Barber!

61 The issue seems to be a total insensitivity to the possibility of conception, and no concern for exactly how momentous that event is.

Live birth is a "lifestyle choice"...like biking to work or eating paleo.  Even women who can't conceive or can't bring a baby to term, or for some other reason just don't conceive (no husband, husband with medical issues, etc) are assumed to have intentionally "chosen" a childless lifestyle.

The 21st century is a barbaric place.

62 60 I was baby-smooth for three days. Viva la Anarchy Barber! Posted by: Cicero Kid at April 16, 2013 08:18 AM (026j9) Don't your balls itch?

63 What should happen from this incident is that a national consensus should form to eliminate the practice of late-term abortions. And in the process we should also have a good, healthy discussion on whether the national standard first established by Roe is really the way to go, or whether this is a matter that should be sent back to the states (see Taranto's column mentioned above). Yet the people who'd naturally be expected to lead the charge insist on eliminating all abortions now! or none of them. So they get the latter. We need to learn from the left's incrementalism. Take what we can get when we can get it and then resume the fight before the ink on the bill is dry.

64 55 Posted by: ExSnipe at April 16, 2013 08:15 AM (PBm/l) The Terry Schiavo incident is somewhat different. She did not leave a living will or a DNR and so there was a battle between the husband and the parents about what she wanted, or would have wanted. A fetus does not have any say or choice. Whatever you think about abortion, you are taking a life and there is no getting around that.

65

And we know in our bones there are more Kermit Gosnells out there, don't we?

__

He also had a practice in Delaware, with a partner. That clinic was shut down on the news of his indictment.

66 If, like you say, these kids are too immature to understand what abortion does to a baby, they have no maturity to have sex either. Posted by: Liberty Lover at April 16, 2013 08:08 AM (eQ4W/) Exactly. 8, 9 years old having sex? WTF?

67 I see the downside of inspection and cleanliness and assurance of sterility of instruments to be legions of woman now stripped of their ability to ever conceive again.

Repeat customers are the bread and butter of any small business, you'd think they'd be meticulous about their use sterile instruments just for that reason.

68 Absolution for Absolutism

69 Live birth is a "lifestyle choice"...like biking to work or eating paleo.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at April 16, 2013 08:19 AM (hO8IJ)

Except it's not. At least for people with some modicum of morality. But we have been buried beneath an avalanche of post-modern narcissism and selfishness.

70 63 Posted by: Andy at April 16, 2013 08:22 AM (OZPoa) Agree, wholeheartedly. Trouble is we are no longer that masters of the culture, nor of the media/academia/political complex that controls that aforementioned culture. Uphill battle. But the fact that the Gosnell story is getting out there (even if wildly skewed to focus on the clinical aspect and not abortion itself) is encouraging. As I had said, if ever there were a tipping point to swing politics and culture back to our side, it is this. This is political dynamite. We know it and the leftists know it. They will desperately try to bury this and minimize it going forward.

71 Doesn't barring inspection of abortion clinics specifically relegate them to 'the shadows?'

72 We need to learn from the left's incrementalism. Take what we can get when we can get it and then resume the fight before the ink on the bill is dry.

Posted by: Andy at April 16, 2013 08:22 AM (OZPoa)

Exactly. And use Gosnell as the poster boy for the entire abortion industry.

They throw Akin in our faces? We throw a mass murderer in theirs.

73 I understand the reality of this world and that compromise is often necessary to get things done. I understand the hard reality that sometimes you have to put up with shit you don't like, in order to avoid a worse outcome. But here, on this, I will not budge an inch. I can't. I won't. When it comes to slaughtering children, they will get no compromise from me.

74 most women went there because he was the cheapest and taht ws all tehy could afford. It is often very difficylt and time consuming for a woman to save 400 to 1000 dollars for an abortion. It often takes months.

75 74 Gosnell made it up in volume, I suppose.

76 73 Posted by: BCochran1981 at April 16, 2013 08:30 AM (da5Wo) That's why I don't like political compromise because the other side seeks our destruction/subjugation. Why would I compromise any aspect of my freedom as laid out in the Constitution for any reason at all, least of which some sort of political expediency which will only result in the eventual loss of some or all of said freedom. NO.

77 Years ago, there were two options for a woman: back alley abortions, or if you were wealthy, a discreet doctor. Teenaged girls were ostracized and forced to leave town. Or putting the child up for adoption. This is because by that stage of the pregnancy, she should have determined whether or not she would carry it to birth. It's because killing a human being is wrong. The mother's 'choice' is irrelevant.

78 74, 75 I cannot believe that the cost of abortions, especially in the inner city, was not subsidized to a large extent or entirely by the government and/or Planned Parenthood.

79

64

J.J. Sefton,

 

Terri Schiavo didn't have a choice and neither did her parents. They were willing to take care of her but the courts basically said so what, let her die.

80 Teenage pregnancy has gone through the ozone. Sex education in the public schools should include (if it already hasn't) the responsibility of the teenage boy, as well. Too many of them get off scott-free. Agreed. And, the parents of the boy probably will never know. Again, the parents are left out of the picture. But, I also have known men who want the woman to abort. Many young men do. But, this also made me think of a (sort of) contradiction in thought. Single women who choose to have the child, are not choosing abortion. And, we rail against single motherhood.

81 Except it's not. At least for people with some modicum of morality. But we have been buried beneath an avalanche of post-modern narcissism and selfishness.

Yeah, I should have put more words into that.  For hundreds of years babies were miracles--God blessed you, or he didn't--and now they're just hobbies, or accessories. You know that's wrong, I know that's wrong, but that's the prevailing attitude.

And conservatives/the Horde buy into that attitude all the time when they bash "childless women", as if the only possible reason any woman could reach middle age without a live birth is "choice."  Endometriosis is not a choice; a series of stillbirths is not a choice; I guess "not whoring around with deadbeats and jerks for their sperm" was a choice but I'm tired of defending it.

82 Excellent post, LauraW.   And dead-on accurate.

83 Absolutist. Thats me, though in the other direction. The harder the fucking country pulls to the left, the harder I turn to the right. Until my views seem/are extreme. Though to give perspective, my views were mainstream only 50 years or so ago. I don't consider my views extreme just because I resist the groupthink that wants to turn the bus off a cliff. Rinos compromise, and the bus goes just a little farther down the road before going over the same damn cliff. Their stupidity is thinking you can compromise on the direction, and the cliff looming over the left side of the bus is not really there.

84

Fantastic post.

 

As Reagan pointed out, an unborn child can inherit property in probate. 

 

How can an unborn baby have rights to property, but no right to life?  Could the mother kill the unborn baby in order to inherit the entire estate.

 

True murder for profit.  Under today's laws, yes.

85 Also, is what just happened in Boston any less terrible than what happened in Philadelphia?

86
All your blobs are belong to us!
Obamaco Inc.

87 All you people insisting that cutting babies' heads off is wrong is why we can't win elections.

88 Botanists get it. When a seed is fertilized and sprouts, life has begun. Does this administration and era of public education teach children gardening science from seed, or merely transplants from the "nursery"? The only grounds for argument lay with responsibility. Irresponsible people demand the right to remain irresponsible at the expense of the US taxpayer, kill whatever gets in the way. There are plenty of willfully irresponsible people who refuse to cultivate the seed to fruition, and only care about getting fucked or whatever distractions from duty. If they don't want to bear and raise children, then voluntarily get sterilized so as to stop demanding that society provide termination of life from the "mistake" and burden of pregnancy, whether or not due to "unsafe sex". After all, it isn't as if the sperm/eggs can't be harvested and stored for later use if there is a change in mind to desire a future pregnancy/child.

89 Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at April 16, 2013 08:36 AM (hO8IJ)

And I should have made it clear that I was agreeing with you, and simply expanding your point.

90 79 Posted by: ExSnipe at April 16, 2013 08:35 AM (PBm/l) I'm not up on the Schiavo case, but did she leave some sort of living will? If there was none, then the issue of what to do with someone who is in a persistent vegetative state is another issue entirely, though admittedly related. In this case, it was the battle between who had power of attorney over her and, more to the point, what to do with her in the condition she was in. I don't have the answer; just raising the question.

91 True murder for profit. Under today's laws, yes. Posted by: Prescient11 at April 16, 2013 08:37 AM (LI1Kh) Thats a thinker.

92 84 Posted by: Prescient11 at April 16, 2013 08:37 AM (LI1Kh) Well, under the law, an unborn child regardless of what stage of pregnancy is recognized as a human being. If a fetus is killed during the commission of a crime, that is one count of murder or manslaughter.

93 The thing that pissed me off the most about Schiavo is that a fucking probate judge was passing a death sentence. Probate is to decide who gets Grandma's silverware, not who lives or dies.

94 i've never understood the argument for abortion......as the parent of 4 children.....only one of them was actually "planned" three of them just happened and i would trade none of them......

95 85 Also, is what just happened in Boston any less terrible than what happened in Philadelphia? Posted by: Body Builder at April 16, 2013 08:37 AM (DrC22) Um, no. Your point is?

96

I recall years ago the argument was "what's the difference between killing a child in the womb and one that's just been born?"

 

I never imagined that it would become a distrinction without meaning.

 

97 A judge is a judge. They have absolute power. You know what they say about that.

98 I one time cruelly said to a liberal democrat pregnant coworker, "The difference between you carrying that baby and the woman aborting is choice. You choose to carry to term."

Still went over her head.  Abortion in its current form is about convenience. As the President said about his daughters of not being a mistake to burden them.  Only thinking in selfish terms which lead to this 'problem' in the first place.

99 86 All your blobs are belong to us! Obamaco Inc. Posted by: The Departtment Of Govoenment Acuracy at April 16, 2013 08:38 AM (+I8Mq) Fuck you!

100 True murder for profit. Under today's laws, yes. Posted by: Prescient11 All your blobs are belong to us! Obamaco Inc. Posted by: The Departtment Of Govoenment Acuracy Yep.

101 The Terry Schiavo incident is somewhat different. She did not leave a living will or a DNR and so there was a battle between the husband and the parents about what she wanted, or would have wanted. ____________________ The thing that bothered me about that case (other than the exceptionally cruel way she died) was the fact that her "husband" had long since moved on. He had been living in a (de facto) marital relationship with another woman for years, even had several children with her. Yet he was still allowed to claim the marital right to make health care decisions for Terry, even though he'd had no meaningful contact with her for years. He had, in essence, abandoned the marriage. That fact was never recognized by the court, although it certainly should have been. The husband had a clear conflict of interest that should have precluded him from being legally able to make decisions about Terry's health care.

102 Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 16, 2013 08:42 AM (GVxQo)

Not even for an ampersand?

If we could do it over, we would have as many kids as possible. The more the merrier.

I see the casual attitude toward pregnancy and I despair for our country.

103 96 I recall years ago the argument was "what's the difference between killing a child in the womb and one that's just been born?" I never imagined thatit would becomea distrinction without meaning. Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 16, 2013 08:43 AM (WvXvd) That's why I always order veal when eating with libs. "If only we could have pulled it out and whacked it on the head when the cow's vulva dilated, it would be cool. Just a mass of tissue. Tasty, though." Heads always explode.

104 Life is becoming cheaper and cheaper everyday.

105 Virgil Hilts sock off!!

106 An incremental win would be limiting abortions after the child develops its own heartbeat. When your heart stops, you are declared dead. It makes sense that when it starts, you are alive. I'd take that as compromise, and we could sell it, too.

107 But, this also made me think of a (sort of) contradiction in thought. Single women who choose to have the child, are not choosing abortion. And, we rail against single motherhood.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 16, 2013 08:36 AM (XYSwB)

 

I don't see it that way.   I have no problem with single motherhood.   A lot of single mothers work very hard for their children to ensure they have a good life.        And while     sex out of wedlock may be frowned upon by many different religions,     I can think of few (with the exception of       fringe extremists,    and Islam)   that would turn a young mother away if she sought guidance   and    help from them. 

 

My problems   lie solely with those single mothers who    portray themselves as victims.   "I'm a single mom and    my   job won't let me work from home.  I'm a victim!"    "I'm a single mom and I have to work three jobs to pay the bills.  I'm a victim!"   "I'm a single mom and they won't give me more food stamps.  I'm a victim!"

 

No.  They are NOT victims.  They are living the consequences of their choices.   As I said, many single mothers -- and single fathers, not that anyone gives a rat's ass about them --   work very hard to give their children every opportunity to    succeed.   Whether they're single because they got pregnant out of wedlock, or because they got a divorce, or because they were widowed,   doesn't matter to these parents.      What they care about is their children.   They will swallow   their pride if needs be   and work in a profession or series of professions    from which they'd otherwise abstain    if they feel that doing so     will give    their children    the best chance    to grow up and have a good life.

 

Selfish   single parents    care less about their children and more about themselves.   Their life choices aren't about what will make lives better for their children, but what would make life better for THEM.   THESE are the single mothers (and fathers) who earn nothing but scorn from me.   They are the spoiled children    of the adult class,     and unfortunately these are the single parents who    are   becoming the face of the group as a whole.  

108 OSP, hey!

Benghazi proved that.  Four Americans dead and the American public hit the snooze button and went back to sleep.

109 We need to learn from the left's incrementalism. Take what we can get when we can get it and then resume the fight before the ink on the bill is dry. This x 1000. The Gosnell incident could lead to increased regulations, making it more difficult to get an abortion. That should be a start. Fewer abortions is better.

110 104 Life is becoming cheaper and cheaper everyday. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamelessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at April 16, 2013 08:47 AM (l86i3) Jeez, why the hell did we end slavery? (/Sarc)

111 108 OSP, hey! Benghazi proved that. Four Americans dead and the American public hit the snooze button and went back to sleep. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 08:49 AM (IF6dz) More like SCOAMF hit the snooze bar and the MFM chloroformed the Low info crowd. I, and everyone here, was fully awake. Still am.

112 This is why I have no qualms about posting the Gosnell pictures. I give a warning, but that's it. You want to be pro-baby killing? Then look at what you have created and support.

113 I've noticed there's very little SOCON bashing on AoS. Every social issue thread on HA turns into an immediate flame war.....even abortion topics. Is AoS full of SOCONs or do the libetarian conservatives simply choose to remain silent on these threads?

114 97. You know what they say about that. Here come da Judge! http://tinyurl.com/brlvo4p

115 Thank you, Laura. If we as a culture can hold the left accountable to their own absolutism, I'm fine with that. I guess I am an absolutist myself, as I never understood the "clump of cells" bit. We are ALL nothing but a clump of cells and as for us living as 'sentient beings,' well, in the blink of an eye any of us could be struck by an illness or happening which turns us into a non-sentient being -either temporarily or permanently. Life likes to give us lots of inconvenient messes, many of which seem insurmountable at first. I don't see how killing another human benefits anyone at any time. I am with the Catholic Church on this : Either life is valuable and must be defended always, or it isn't worth anything. It is the slipperiest of slopes.

116 Let's get one thing straight right now...
The authorities in PA didn't turn a blind eye to Gosnell because they were protecting an ideology. They wanted as much death and mayhem heaped upon the poor as possible. If you talk to one of these "Choice" true believers they will tell you they want these poor black children dead. period. They don't want them around to bother their comfy little world.

117 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 08:49 AM (4df7R) Well said! The irresponsible single parent flaunting their victim status is what I dislike. Responsible single (for a variety of reasons) parents have chosen a hard row to hoe, but I wish them and their offspring the best.

118 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 08:49 AM (4df7R)


You do realize that the likelihood of you paying for a drink at the Meet Up is miniscule, right? Hell, the unattached Rons may end up Thunderdoming for the right to buy your dinner.

119 Botanists get it. When a seed is fertilized and sprouts, life has begun. Posted by: panzernashorn at April 16, 2013 08:40 AM (MhA4j) Therein lies the hypocrisy on the left. They scream SCIENCE to the high heavens, but, conveniently ignore when life begins because it doesn't fit their narrative and ideological goals. Another inconvenient truth.

120

I've noticed there's very little SOCON bashing on AoS. Every social issue thread on HA turns into an immediate flame war.....even abortion topics.

 

Oh, there's plenty of SoCon bashing.  But it's usually not right out of the gate, and generally we SoCons give as good as we get.

121 I awoke this morning and while still in bed, my thoughts drifted to this inconceivable horror that has unfolded with Gosnell, the sick and twisted barbarity, the shock, the sadness, and the scum that look the other way or worse, advocate for such procedures.  This is simply murder.  Murder of innocent babies.  And there's no other way around it.  My mind can't sufficiently reconcile how anyone could possibly believe this tragedy came about because late term abortions should be legal.  And strong chances are, most people would recoil at this notion.  But like all things, the pro choice zealots, the left, the progressives have manipulated the narrative and the language to remove all humanity from the act.  A clump of cells, a fetus, a specimen.  Gosnell's story is a huge, huge threat to their narrative.  Hence, the media blackout.  It's hard for me to believe this America I live in is really America. 

Laura, this is the best post you've ever done, imho. 

122 Let's get one thing straight right now... The authorities in PA didn't turn a blind eye to Gosnell because they were protecting an ideology. They wanted as much death and mayhem heaped upon the poor as possible. If you talk to one of these "Choice" true believers they will tell you they want these poor black children dead. period. They don't want them around to bother their comfy little world. Posted by: The Dept. of Acuracy at April 16, 2013 08:52 AM (+I8Mq) I'm surprised they haven't traded their Che T-shirts for Maggie Sangor T-shirts.

123

Icedog, there's nothing unlibertarian about hating abortion. Nothing. Do some research and come back.

 

Or better, don't.

124 Recall, that supporting Schiavo, was the one thing that Obama does apologize for, in his memoir, not the Born Alive Act veto, that Ezekiel Emmanuel has
qualms about the hippocratic oath.

125 BF  Barry  had  a  restful  night  and  woke  up  much  refreshed.  Thankfully  as  a  couple  we   don't   have   to   worry   about   this   pregnancy/abortion   ickyness.  But  we  do  want  to  be  married!

126 I've noticed there's very little SOCON bashing on AoS. Every social issue thread on HA turns into an immediate flame war.....even abortion topics. I wouldn't know. I haven't darkened their door in over a year.

127 The husband had a clear conflict of interest that should have precluded him from being legally able to make decisions about Terry's health care. Plus all that settlement money which he used to get an RN license so he could care for her. He is a cold calculating narcissist and possibly may have been the cause of her brain damage in the beginning.

128 112 This is why I have no qualms about posting the Gosnell pictures. I give a warning, but that's it. You want to be pro-baby killing? Then look at what you have created and support.

Posted by: RWC at April 16, 2013 08:51 AM (fWAjv)

I've found that pro-choicers really get upset when they see pictures of the after-effects of abortion. They claim to be offended, though I've never understood why. You're more offended by pictures of the practice than the practice itself? That makes sense. Though, I suspect the thing they are really offended by is the fact that someone disagrees with them and is attempted to change minds.

129 ((*)(%#$!@%#@!!!

What in the blue hells is wrong with people?  Someone just posted picture of the guy with no legs from Boston.  There is blood all over the sidewalk around him.  Another person to his right laying on their back with blood under that person's leg.  And what looks like a first responder in the picture. 

And some are still claiming because he is showing no emotion on his face, the photo is a fake.  That he is a fake.

SMOD now!

130 i've never understood the argument for abortion......as the parent of 4 children.....only one of them was actually "planned" three of them just happened and i would trade none of them...... Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 16, 2013 08:42 AM (GVxQo) Out of sight, out of mind for many, I suppose.

131 You do realize that the likelihood of you paying for a drink at the Meet Up is miniscule, right? Hell, the unattached Rons may end up Thunderdoming for the right to buy your dinner.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at April 16, 2013 08:52 AM (da5Wo)

 

lol!   Well I not much of a drinker,    so    the point is probably moot.  

132 OSP, Sanger never dreamed her policies would be so enshrined in public! I hope she is keeping a seat warm next to her for Gosnell.

133 Is AoS full of SOCONs or do the libetarian conservatives simply choose to remain silent on these threads? What says libertarians are pro-choice?

134 Hell, the unattached Rons may end up Thunderdoming for the right to buy your dinner. Posted by: BCochran1981 at April 16, 2013 08:52 AM (da5Wo) Honing krav maga skills just in case the meet up is a gun free zone.

135 And some are still claiming because he is showing no emotion on his face, the photo is a fake. That he is a fake.

SMOD now!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 08:54 AM (IF6dz)

Shock, how does it work?

136 And some are still claiming because he is showing no emotion on his face, the photo is a fake. That he is a fake. SMOD now! Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 08:54 AM (IF6dz) Yeah, it's a little crazy. That would be called shock. Something the pampered ones have never seen, yet.

137 Posted by: BCochran1981 at April 16, 2013 08:56 AM (da5Wo) Jinx, buy me a coke............and Makers Mark.

138 lol! Well I not much of a drinker, so the point is probably moot.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 08:54 AM (4df7R)

We'll fix that problem.

139 113 Posted by: Icedog at April 16, 2013 08:51 AM (9ScGj) The left has very effectively framed the debate about social issues for years. Aside from painting us as knuckle-dragging misogynists and homophobes, they have made a lot of people fear that if in power, they would take away people's rights and impose some sort of neo-theocracy on America. I think social issues are intimately entwined with everything else because the left seeks our destruction and the imposition as the state as G-d. In order to do that, you must destroy the institutions of the family (Mellissa Harris-Perry, anyone?), marriage and G-d from whom we get our unalienable rights. In point of fact, the left are the ones who seek to impose a fundamentalist/sharia-like crypto-religion on us and subjugate us in order to create their paradise on earth. By my account, that endeavor has cost upward of 300 million lives over the course of a century.

140 one point that I think a lot of people miss The philly butcher did late term abortions, which is not that unusual. (late second trimester). what is unusual is that instead of dismembering them before delivery, he delivered the babies using labor inducing drugs, and then killed them. So the difference between his method, and what goes on every day in many clinics throughout the country is just a mater of location. The left has avoided this trial for the simple fact that it lays bare the horror of what they are pushing. It is so horrible, that I doubt most of them can face it. It is pure defense mechanism of avoidance. We can argue about age of the fetus all day long, but it takes a black heart to look at what is on trial, weather we are discussing 24, or 12 weeks, and say that it is an acceptable thing to allow.

141 Been thinking about it.  As a taxpayer, deadbeats are using my body to live, and I don't think that's right -- it's my body & I ought to be able to live how I want so...

142 it would be called keeping one's head while those around you are losing theirs......

143 lol! Well I not much of a drinker, so the point is probably moot. If you are not yet a functioning Alky, you are of strong stock.

144 The terminology has been intentionally twisted. That which is presented as "choice" has very little to do with the life part that any true 'choice' would engender. It's not about making any choices, it's only about ensuring the "guilt-free" termination of any pregnancy, at any point, for whatever reason, on demand. That's clearly pro-abortion.

Which is why abortion zealots scream and howl and curse when people opposed to them speak out, and hold signs saying "choose life".

145 They wanted as much death and mayhem heaped upon the poor as possible. If you talk to one of these "Choice" true believers they will tell you they want these poor black children dead. period.

--

We've probably all heard how they think abortion (early, mid, late, hell even born alive) is preferable to living a life of poverty.  Just kill them and there's one less human that won't wind up in prison.  I've heard these exact words.

146 Tempted to post on the picture.  Remember in the movie Saving Private Ryan the guy getting his arm blown off?  And him trying to reattach it?  Shock does strange things to humans.

147 Morning all

148 Honing krav maga skills just in case the meet up is a gun free zone.

Posted by: RWC at April 16, 2013 08:55 AM (fWAjv)

I believe the term you're looking for is "Weapons Free!"

......hmmm? Oh. Not what you meant? Well, what did you expect? We're Morons.

149 Selfish single parents care less about their children and more about themselves. Their life choices aren't about what will make lives better for their children, but what would make life better for THEM. THESE are the single mothers (and fathers) who earn nothing but scorn from me. They are the spoiled children of the adult class, and unfortunately these are the single parents who are becoming the face of the group as a whole. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 08:49 AM (4df7R) Well said, but I would add, even a married couple can act the same in this case. There are so many couples that should never have had a child, imo. And, most couples end in divorce nowadays. The entire fabric of the family unit is being torn apart. Hence, society.

150 Arguing 2A stuff on thehill the other day and Gosnell somehow came up. The person stated that the child is a 'parasite' until it's born.

151 We do have incrementalism. Tons of it. Waiting.periods, informed consent, clinic regulations gestational age cut offs ect. ect. ect.

152 Pre-order this. 

http://www.hlj.com/product/NEC35433/Act

Annoy the liberals when you put it on display and they complain by innocently saying "But I like the game."

153

"We've probably all heard how they think abortion (early, mid, late, hell even born alive) is preferable to living a life of poverty. Just kill them and there's one less human that won't wind up in prison. I've heard these exact words."

 

I would't want my daughter punished with a baby.

154

And some are still claiming because he is showing no emotion on his face, the photo is a fake. That he is a fake.

 

 

Oh for God's sake.   Has everyone in the world     suddenly turned into Alex Jones?   WTF?    Next they'll be saying that    ball bearings don't shred flesh, just like fire doesn't melt steel.

 

SHOCK, dipshits.     DO YOU SPEAK IT?    

 

How about we    chop off your*    legs with a violent explosion and we'll see how you handle the situation.   Odds    are your body would shut down THE SAME DAMN WAY, because the body is smart enough to realize, "Holy shit, this is bad.  Uh,    don't panic.  Shit, can't run.   Uh... uh...   Okay, I'm just... I'm just going to turn off for a while.   This   shit is heavy."

 

 

*I expect the   Horde    understands that the   "you" in this situation is   meant to indicate the dumbass conspiracists, not anyone here at teh HQ.

155 Posted by: spongeworthy at April 16, 2013 08:53 AM (r5w1L) Guess you missed the fact I intentionally italicised the word 'libertarian'. Those on the right who are opposed to social conservatism use a multitude of words to describe themselves...I just used the most common. So chill the fuck out.

156 Hey MWR, want to hear more of Sluggor?  I managed to get just over a thousand words cranked out yesterday in spite of everything.  Something to distract however imperfectly.

157 This is why the pro-choice side uses the terms 'fetus,' or 'clump of cells.'

Of course, the purpose is to dehumanize the human, and the only reason that's ever done is to facilitate the mental gymnastics necessary to kill whatever it is we're talking about.

And you are absolutely right. The reason abortion remains such a volatile topic in this country is that cases like Roe, essentially drew lines. Rational people ask, "why draw the line at that spot?" The absolutist crowd won't answer that question, because it can't. There is no rational basis for drawing a line anywhere, if the end result is the death of a human being. Thus, do the Marcotte's of the world rise up to defend even a Gosnell, for fear that any movement of the line will lead to a massive rational re-examination of the question in it's entirety, and lead to a result they do not want.

158 IRAN: QUAKE KILLS AT LEAST 40 NEAR PAKISTAN BORDER Well at least some good news

159 ot, but this is killing me. There is a hint that there was suspicion of a bomb threat (see http://tinyurl.com/cwcs3db ) at the marathon. They told the participants that it was just a training exercise. If they did know, they should have cancelled the race, or at the very least, let the people decide whether they wanted to remain there or not. If all (what 8?) bombs had gone off as planned, there could have been thousands, if not more dead and maimed.

160 Hey MWR, want to hear more of Sluggor? I managed to get just over a thousand words cranked out yesterday in spite of everything. Something to distract however imperfectly. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 09:03 AM (IF6dz) Hey MWR? How about Hey OSP? I would like to read also.

161 Posted by: BCochran1981 at April 16, 2013 08:52 AM (da5Wo)

Is the pole set up for the dancing?

162 IRAN: QUAKE KILLS AT LEAST 40 NEAR PAKISTAN BORDER Well at least some good news Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 16, 2013 09:04 AM (9Bj8R) Prolly UN troops that ran inside a building for safety.

163 OSP if I posted all 16k words in a comment box Pixy-misa and her zombie hamsters would be after me for collapsing the place.  Not to mention the Moron Horde. 

164 OK, call me an absolutist. On the side of life. And the Constitutionally protected right to life, even for a blob of tissue that has all the genetic programming inherent to grow and develop into a fully formed human being. Unless it is vacuumed out of the womb to clean the lady up for another round of drinks and dancing and fucking. That is so abhorrent to me, that a woman cannot suspend her boudoir entertainment for even a few months and then give that person inside of her their life before resuming her irresponsible behavior.

I have strong Libertarian tendencies. But I disagree with most Libertarians on this issue.  The rights of the mother do not override the rights of the fetus/forming human being. Both have the right to life. The mother has the inconvenience of her error. BFD.

Let me ask you this, all of you reasonable middle of the road pro choice-to-a-certain-point people: Where do you draw the line? When does a blob of tissue quit being a Thing and begin being a Human Being?  Hmmm?  6 months?   7 months?  8 months? The moment the woman's water breaks?

165

 "As I said, many single mothers -- and single fathers, not that anyone gives a rat's ass about them -- work very hard to give their children every opportunity to succeed. Whether they're single because they got pregnant out of wedlock, or because they got a divorce, or because they were widowed, doesn't matter to these parents. What they care about is their children"Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 08:49 AM (4df7R)

 

 

Exactly! I was a single mother after my first husband passed away.  I was 30 yrs old and had a 2yr old son when I became a widow. I was not my choice.  The only thing that kept me sane was my son. I focused on keeping his life upright even if mine had been turned upside down. I had no interest in what was most convenient or fun for me. It took 5 yrs before I found Hubbymayhem and it wasn't easy trusting anyone with my kid. He had to love the boy as much as he loved me.  My son is 18 now and will graduate from H.S. in about a month. He is the commander of his NavyJROTC unit, member of the National Honor Society, active in the American Legion, volunteers for numerous events and is hoping for the appointment to West Point. Everyone tells us the boy is awesome and says "I just love that kid." He did not get this because of luck. He had parents to guide him and teach him.  Some single parents still do that.

166 The entire fabric of the family unit is being torn apart. Hence, society.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 16, 2013 09:01 AM (XYSwB)

 

So true.   And a solid chunk of the   blame for that can be laid right at the feet of the bastards and whores who are currently running this country,   and who got their baptism by leftist fire in the    protest culture of the 60s.  

 

Also, i'd be in favor of reanimating LBJ's rotted corpse JUST to kill him again for the genocide his so-called "Great Society" has levied against the American family, not least of all against the black family.

167 Is the pole set up for the dancing?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 16, 2013 09:05 AM (/WLC3)

I'll have to speak with Bannion. Btw, I voted for the restaurant who's upstairs private area referred to the table as "The Stage". Alas, it was not to be.

168 "I'm glad you raised that, because it gives me a chance to make a point I've felt strongly about," said Frank. "In this terrible situation, let's be very grateful that we had a well-funded, functioning government. It is very fashionable in America, and has been for some time to criticize government, belittle public employees, talk about their pensions, talk about what people think ... of [their] health care. Here we saw government in two ways perform very well. ... I never was as a member of Congress one of the cheerleaders for less government, lower taxes. No tax cut would have helped us deal with this or will help us recover. This is very expensive." What dumb cock sucker ( ok in this case it actually fits- not that there is anything wrong with that?). But he loves gutting the Military? What the Fuck?

169 Is the pole set up for the dancing? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 16, 2013 09:05 AM (/WLC3) Have you been practicing?

170 And another thing...the reason ordinary outpatient facilities inspections were suspended for abortion facilities, is because people in government were afraid that these inspections would be used as a political cudgel by pro-lifers in government. Why did they fear this? Because that is precisely the kind of official bullying shit they are always doing to businesses THEY don't like.

171 Anyone else notice that the stock market tanked before the bombing in Boston. Almost as if they knew it was gonna happen. And you know what kind of people work on Wall Street, right? That's right, J00s. And may I remind you, fire doesn't melt marathons. On the topic of abortion, you gonna eat that clump of cells?

172 150Arguing 2A stuff on thehill the other day and Gosnell somehow came up. The person stated that the child is a 'parasite' until it's born.

Posted by: RWC at April 16, 2013 09:01 AM (fWAjv)

 

 

Lets take that logic a step farther: A lot of the sons of bitches are parasites 35 years later, and the leftards think they are just great, because they vote for leftards. If its ok to kill them in the womb because they are parasites, why can't we kill the fucking proven parasites walking around sucking the life out of society?

173 163 OSP if I posted all 16k words in a comment box Pixy-misa and her zombie hamsters would be after me for collapsing the place. Not to mention the Moron Horde.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 09:06 AM (IF6dz)

Actually, we would probably just dismiss it as another Ace movie review and comment away totally ot

174 OSP if I posted all 16k words in a comment box Pixy-misa and her zombie hamsters would be after me for collapsing the place. Not to mention the Moron Horde. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 09:06 AM (IF6dz) Um, you have my E-mail?

175

 Arguing 2A stuff on thehill the other day and Gosnell somehow came up. The person stated that the child is a 'parasite' until it's born.

Posted by: RWC at April 16, 2013 09:01 AM (fWAjv)

And did you use the opportunity to get clarification on the status of our nation of rent-seekers who live off the sweat and labor of their neighbors, friends, family and countless countrymen unknown?  Why, I was under the impression that 'parasites' were a protected class.

176 RWC, the parasite argument can be taken to apply to the person saying the unborn are parasites.

Simply ask if they can live without breathing?  When they say no.  Inform them that they are a parasite taxing poor Gaia for air.

177 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamelessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at April 16, 2013 09:07 AM (l86i3)

On a day with very little good news; thanks for the chuckle.

178

Posted by: madamemayhem at April 16, 2013 09:06 AM (S2RnE)

 

You, Madame,    are a testament to the    benefits of being a good parent regardless of circumstance.  It sounds like your son is    already an excellent young man!

179 SoCon = Pro Life Pro "Choice" = Devil-worshipper Moloch demands this sacrifice. Moloch is an angry and fiery god. Moloch rules the Blue Cities. Moloch is the left hand of the Devil. Way to go, Laura!

180 FBI agents could be seen through one window. It was not clear what, if anything, they found. But Revere fire officials said they were called out to support bomb-squad officers as part of an investigation of a “person of interest” in the marathon attack. At the hospital, investigators seized the man’s clothes to examine whether they held any evidence that he was behind the attack. The law-enforcement sources also told The Post that the man was not free to leave the medical center. He had suffered shrapnel wounds to the back of a leg but was not likely to die, a source said. As of last night, investigators had not yet directly asked the man whether he had set off the bombs. But they had asked him general questions, such as what he was doing in the area. The potential suspect told police he had dinner Sunday night near Boston’s Prudential Center, about half a mile from the blast site, the sources said. He also said that he went to the Copley Square area yesterday to witness the finish of the race. The sources said that, after the man was grabbed by police, he smelled of gunpowder and declared, “I thought there would be a second bomb.” He also asked: “Did anyone die?”

181 On a day with very little good news; thanks for the chuckle. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 16, 2013 09:09 AM (/WLC3) :-), it's really not a stretch to see rons pole dancing for the ettes.

182 It's a 'choice' until the pictures come out and the testimonies are shared. Then it's simply brutal murder. And there's no where to hide and no parsing of politics. It's murder.

183 *fights to keep breakfast down as an image comes unbidden*

Full monty pole dancing Morons.

184 172 150Arguing 2A stuff on thehill the other day and Gosnell somehow came up. The person stated that the child is a 'parasite' until it's born. Posted by: RWC at April 16, 2013 09:01 AM (fWAjv) Lets take that logic a step farther: A lot of the sons of bitches are parasites 35 years later, and the leftards think they are just great, because they vote for leftards. If its ok to kill them in the womb because they areparasites, why can't we kill the fucking proven parasites walking around sucking the life out of society? Posted by: maddogg at April 16, 2013 09:07 AM (OlN4e) Perfect.

185

Here we saw government in two ways perform very well. ... I never was as a member of Congress one of the cheerleaders for less government, lower taxes. No tax cut would have helped us deal with this or will help us recover. This is very expensive."

 

Oh?   It performed well in two ways?   What two ways are that?   Are you talking about the first responders?   B/C newsflash, asshole, those are funded by STATE taxes, not    federal.     If the grand solons in DC had chosen to cut taxes instead of raise them over and over again then there'd be more money in State economies to pay those police and firefighters' salaries,   probably even hire more of them.    Maybe then there'd have been   just one policeman on the scene who noticed something odd    and   discovered teh bombs before they went off.    Maybe then these people wouldn't have died or been injured and maimed.   Maybe this would have been a cautionary tale instead of a nightmare.

 

So guess what, jerkass punk bitch ho:    you chose to never fight for lower taxes and lower spending,    so     THIS IS YOUR FAULT.

 

Go shove a piece of shaved ginger up your ass, you fat fuck.

186 *fights to keep breakfast down as an image comes unbidden* Full monty pole dancing Morons. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 16, 2013 09:11 AM (IF6dz) Imagine the squeek as the ball sack catches then releases over and over while sliding down the shiny pole.

187 Go shove a piece of shaved ginger up your ass, you fat fuck. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 09:15 AM (4df7R) Game, set and match.

188

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at April 16, 2013 09:09 AM (4df7R)

 

Thank you. This bias against all single parents really steams me. It is the reason (well one of them anyway) I left FreeRepublic.  I used to like that place until the single mother bashing went nuclear.  It was as if those people never heard of a young widow who didn't become a hooker for fun and profit.

 

189 the 13 year old who's raped by some male family member and keeps (or is forced to keep) it a secret until she starts showing might be past that cut-off already, and I think this is one of the cases where it's eminently fair NOT to force her to carry that child to term. Posted by: perturbed at April 16, 2013 07:54 AM (u6Ueb) Sorry, but if an unborn child is an innocent life, then it is ALWAYS an innocent life- no matter how it was conceived. Aborting the child is giving it the death sentence for the crime of the father. The true victim here is the 13 year old. But delivering the baby and giving it up for adoption is far healthier for her than suffering the emotional aftermath of an abortion. I know because my raped mother-in-law decided to give birth to my husband 49 years ago. And she says she'd do it again because of the the three grandkids she's got today.

190 The 8-year-old boy killed in the Boston Marathon terror attack has been identified as Martin Richard, the son of a local community leader. Martin's father, William Richard of Dorchester, Mass., was running in the race as family members watched near the finish line, the Boston Globe reported. The boy's 5-year-old sister lost a leg in the attack, and his mother suffered a brain injury, according to reports. Tragic

191

Imagine the squeek as the ball sack catches then releases over and over while sliding down the shiny pole.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamelessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at April 16, 2013 09:15 AM (l86i3)

Suddenly, I've got the urge to play tether ball.  Anyone up for a game?

192 With all due respect, Andy, incrementalism will not work on abortion. For one thing, it's impractical due to the binary nature of the "choice": Baby lives / Baby dies. It's not like you can say, "Starting in 2015, babies past 20 weeks may not be killed, but you can punch them in the face. After 2017, you phase out the punching and now they are fully protected." Another problem is that for those of us who recognize that abortion is murder, it's asking for our imprimatur for lesser amounts of murder. I know that seems "practical" but I will not burden my soul with having given my approval based on some inhumane calculus. Lastly, and most relevant - this is the other side's 2nd Amendment. They compromise as much on restricting abortion as we compromise on the right to keep and bear arms: not at all. Because they recognize what compromise on this issue means, the eventual abolition of the liberal sacrament.

193 Wat a sec, isn't MWR a shaved ginger?

194 Tragic Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 16, 2013 09:17 AM (9Bj8R) Yeah, the deaths get all the news but maybe, in some cases, they are the lucky ones.

195 Perfectly stated EOJ.  Gracias.

196 News dump up.

197 It's Dickheads on Parade on the THC this morning.

198 Imagine the squeek as the ball sack catches then releases over and over while sliding down the shiny pole. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamelessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at April 16, 2013 09:15 AM (l86i3) ---------------------- And that is why you are such a hotshit author.

199

I have to go to work,

 

But I remember about a year ago when the PoMos on the academic side started pushing for "post-birth abortion."

Never mind their reasoning (it was just Peter Singer rehashed.)

What was important was their language (as LauraW points out.)

The noted in the paper that they specifically rejected "infanticide" because that term had too much weight with it.

Somehow it never clicked to those morons that there was a reason that term had so much weight (and that merely "renaming" it "Post birth abortion" didn't change the act itself.)

200

>>>  Because they recognize what compromise on this issue means, the eventual abolition of the liberal sacrament. <<<

 

Yeah, but they don't get all the say in the deal. And we get to call them "extremists" for not compromising.

 

I get your other objections. Don't really agree, but understand.

201 And that is why you are such a hotshit author. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 09:22 AM (JunLs) Thanks, new cover on the way for you to look at, will send it to you E-mail.

202 "This is what happens in the case of unrestricted late-term abortion:

a) If a woman wants her baby, he is her precious newborn son, a patient of the hospital, and even if prematurely delivered he will receive humane medical care.

b) If the woman does not want her baby, cut his head off and toss the body in the bin with the others.

Note that the difference between a) and b) is merely the emotional whim of one parent. This is what distinguishes this killing as 'abortion' and not infanticide, to the extremist end of the pro-choice crowd."

 

***

 

It's not just late term abortions.   How many of us have been in our offices and one of our colleagues shows us the picture of the ultrasound of their baby?   At 8-12 weeks?   We all go "goo-goo-gah-gah," and congratulate him or her and say pleasant things about the child's features and little fingers and toes or, if we know the fellow well enough, joke about the size of the infant boy's penis, etc.  

 

We all, in other words, assume that the first-trimester baby is, in fact, a baby.   BUT ONLY IF OUR FRIEND HAS SUBJECTIVELY DECIDED THAT IT IS A BABY.   If our friend instead has decided that it's not a baby, then he can decide to kill it.  

 

Orwell.   Double.   Think.

 

 

203

A significant part of three generations of the youth of America have been vacuumed from their mothers' wombs; millions of children destroyed, never to be named or known.

 

Or hugged. Or   had a bedtime story    read to them. Or taken fishing. Or played pitch with.

 

Or  loved.

 

While it's not a perfect solution, I'd like to see the emphasis shifted  from abortion to adoption. It could be done. I'd rather err on the side of life.

 

Gosnell is a subhuman and   the more that we find out about   his  house of horrors, the better for the nation. I also hope the   merchants of death on the left squirm  when their hypocrisy  is shown.

204 So a child is the property of the community - unless it's unwanted by the mother - in which case the community must allow for its killing.

205 113. You ask, having not troubled yourself during the '12 campaign to read in order to know before casting an informed vote. Notice a parallel between the Public and Congress, reading is such a bother. Icedog, "libetarian"? Of course you'd acknowledge, it's a mistake to assume that constitutional integrity requires either anarchy and/or atheism. If asking for a typical answer from an association of individualist free thinkers, first research their own representative leadership. Throughout his career and life, being a devout Christian, Ron Paul (retired) enabled life and was against abortions. Now, as to the role of government protecting life, again there is a vast chasm dividing the neoconservative authoritarian approach to power which assumes its divine right to dictate who lives and dies without constitutional due process (Patriot Act plus revisions per extension, and the nefarious DHS), and the libertarian support to implement our Constitutional Government. Abortion? Violent crimes against a person (regardless of developmental stage) are constitutionally designated to each State wherein an act of violence occurs, to determine due process according to the Constitution of each State, trial by jury in a court of law. It wasn't that long ago when a State would request facility from the FBI laboratories to test evidence for prosecution during criminal investigations. But getting FBI lab tests did not result in turning the prosecution of the crime within a State over to federal authorities. Given the DHS/Patriot Act, however, the federal authoritarians assume all rights to seize all powers and to function autonomously. Today, where are the separation of powers? Hell, where is the fulfillment of duty per branch within our government? Congress without a budget..."Because I Could" as Clinton excused his impeachable crimes when asked "WHY". That word sticks in the craw. As Obama announced yesterday, there are no longer Republicans or Democrats. Speaker Pelosi's phrase stated Shared Values. The 2010 electoral results mandated the repeal of ObamaCare. The Republican Leadership swore to never fund ObamaCare. Today, regardless of party platform and campaign promises, the "compassionate" Republican Leadership scold us with "the law of the land." Corruption. And what is the Republican Leadership doing about their own corruption? They've already usurped the Tea Party, branding neoconservative socialism (fascism) as if the alternative to socialist liberalism (communism). And we're mulligan, re-experiencing 1930s, deja vu here rather than "over there" in Spain or Germany. Only it's different, having been there, done that. Except that was then, this is now? The Road to Serfdom, brought to you by the obese ego -- Federal Reserve, complements from politicians including the malleable revisionist SCOTUS. Debt Is Wealth: Arbeit Macht Frei

206 EoJ, I understand that position. How many abortions has it prevented since Roe?

207

JJ Sefton, yeah, I've never understood why someone doesn't make a defense that a fetus is not a baby so how can they be charged with murder.

 

It is the ultimate irony.  You commit a crime and harm a pregnant woman where she loses a baby = murder.

 

Woman walks into abortion clinic to kill same baby = choice.

 

The disconnect is beyond strange.  I think a lot of cynics consider themselves pro choice because it keeps minority populations down. 

 

It's just a bad business altogether.  I would consider myself prolife except in the case of rape, incest and the life of the mother.  I was very surprised to learn that Roger Ebert was staunchly prolife and only if the mother's life was at risk was his only exception.

208 I think a lot of cynics consider themselves pro choice because it keeps minority populations down. /abortion is a hill worth ignoring

209 Yeah, we have never, ever, ever compromised on Second Amendment rights, amiright ? Never even a little, can I get a "Hallelujah" ? And the pushback when they try has given us 50 state concealed carry of supressed SMG's and ammo sales in convenience stores and vending machines, woohoo ! Is enough irony dripping yet ?

210 Thanks for writing this, laura.

211 206 EoJ, I understand that position. How many abortions has it prevented since Roe? Ouch.

212 Regarding traumatic amputees and blank faces - I am a trauma surgeon (in flyover country, so I have no inside info on the bombing). Patients with these injuries routinely are eerily, blessedly calm. I have not seen one amputee who wasn't calm. I think the brain's got a safety switch for some injuries As for the actual thread topic - amen, LauraW. I find all elective abortion to be murder. I will take any incremental limitation that comes along, though, because it will save lives. (Let's hear it for the frozen chosen in North Dakota!)

213 Excellent job Laura.  Well written.  Excellent comments too. 

214 I'll try to get to the "abolutism" issue later. First this: "When innocent little babies are in danger, most human beings - not deranged mutants like Amanda Marcotte, but actual, decent people - feel an imperative to intervene. If you tried to harm a child within the sight of most people, they would hasten to reduce you to 'a clump of cells.' [...] And this is also why the pro-life forces are constantly trying to show those gory photos of very tiny aborted babies. Because they are trying to smash the sterile concept that keeps people from caring about abortion as a moral issue." Thanks for raising this: this is really important. It's certainly the case that people are less likely to support late-term abortion if they're not in the dark (or able to fool themselves) about what they really involve. However it is *much too complacent* for opponents of late-term abortion to assume that if the Gosnell trial (or whatever) really raises the public consciousness, really gets it in people's faces what late-term abortion is about, that society at large is sure to turn decisively against it. This week would be a *really good time* to read /The Black Stork: Eugenics and the Death of "Defective" Babies in American Medicine and Motion Pictures since 1915 / by Martin S. Pernick. (I've only been able to read excerpts myself so far.) http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Stork-Eugenics-Defective/dp/0195135393/ Here's the opening sentences of the blurb: "In the late 1910s Dr. Harry J. Haiselden, a prominent Chicago surgeon, electrified the nation by allowing the deaths of at least six infants he diagnosed as "defectives". He displayed the dying infants to journalists, wrote about them for the Hearst newspapers, and starred in a feature film about his crusade. Prominent Americans from Clarence Darrow to Helen Keller rallied to his support." So the American public knew perfectly well exactly what Haiselden was doing to disabled children, because he was keen to tell them about it. I won't be spoiling the ending too badly if I say that, while Haiselden's trot was eventually stopped, the public was very far indeed from swiftly and unanimously condemning his actions or his beliefs. In fact, the US eugenics movement rumbled on cheerfully after Haiselden's early death, in time directly inspiring Nazi Germany's systematic murder of disabled adults and children (which in turn directly led to the Jewish Holocaust). Going beyond recent times, infanticide was completely routine more or less everywhere in the ancient world (with one obvious exception). People knew what they were doing when they abandoned their own newborn children to starve or be eaten by wolves, and they did it anyway. So the upshot is this: let's assume that Gosnell really does force itself into everyone's consciousness, so that everyone is fully aware that late-term abortion means driving screwdrivers through the spines of screaming infants, or some other act every bit as murderous. It would *not* inevitably mean that society would reject late-term abortion: it would mean that, stripped of the luxury of not knowing or not-wanting-to-know, society would be forced to a decision. It would either reject the "snip"; or it would embrace and accept it (probably with a bit more anaesthesia thrown in), and God knows where we go from there. The conclusion, for anyone who is firmly opposed to late-term abortion, is that Gosnell going huge does not mark the start of any kind of victory: it marks the opening of a likely decisive battle. This is SHOWTIME. /Wachet auf./ (PS. It has to be said again: if al-Zawahiri sent AQ agents into US hospitals to sever the spines of several hundred newborns, how angry would you be? How ready for action?)

215

Laura, you wrote, "If the absolutist pro-choice crowd tries to expand upon the definition of a disposable fetus to include what are obviously big healthy babies, they will ultimately break the social stalemate on abortion, to the detriment of their own cause."

 

I once read a book called "The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing And The Psychology Of Genocide", about the German physicians who worked in concentration/labor/death camps. Interesting book--one of the most interesting I've ever read--but to the point: do you know why the Nazis settled on Zyklon B gas, formerly a cyanide-based pesticide, as the means of disposal?

 

Early in the Eastern war, the SS sent out units called Einsatzgruppen in the wake of front line infantry and armored units to mass murder Jews, Gypsies, and other undesirables. They killed these people--thousands of them--by machinegunning them on the edges of large pits, which were then bulldozed over as mass graves. The problem? Even the most hardened and fanatical SS men started developing psychological problems, having nervous breakdowns and the like. Turns out most human beings, even the most well-indoctrinated, aren't emotionally cut out for mass murder.

 

The solution? Sanitize the killing process. Reduce the number of people with direct exposure to the actual slaughter. Keep it as bloodless as possible and away from the eyes of even most of those most directly involved in the killing. Hence Auschwitz.

 

You see where I'm going here. They'll start performing officially sanctioned post-birth abortions (aka infanticide) soon, and--as long as they maintain control of the media--they'll probably get away with it. I write 'probably' because I have hopes the Gosnell case will energize and possibly radicalize the pro-life movement and put the abortion issue at the forefront, where it belongs. More and more, I'm seeing that abortion, like slavery before it, is THE issue, all else aside. We cannot reconcile the mass murder of babies with 'Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness' any more than we could reconcile slavery with 'All Men Are Created Equal'.

216 206 EoJ, I understand that position. How many abortions has it prevented since Roe? Ouch. Posted by: lauraw at April 16, 2013 10:07 AM (rjLMx) --------------------------- Witholding my approval of abortion in certain circumstances does not make me culpable for any that have been performed. That's on the biological father, mother and the abortionist. We're not going to prevent a single abortion until we change the culture. That's only going to happen until the true nature of what abortion really is gets dragged into the open. As far as how many abortions have been prevented? Hard to say. I know there have been plenty of women who have had a change of heart after being counseled beforehand.

217 hmmmmm what just happened here?

218 >>>Posted by: LauraW. at

F* yeah. I've got nothing to add. You've said it. This is the humpback I know and love right here.

219 "This is not a game, this is a nation. And absolutism simply fails to thrive in American politics." Thanks, Lauraw. Needed a hearty gut-laugh this morning.

220 ...back on top?

221 He's scared he'll get a Gosnell question. I bet he takes no questions.

222 is obama saying anything or just trying to make it all about himself?

223 There are absolutists on both sides.

224 He pretended to care, but he is fearful they will ask about Gosnell.

225 If I could get a little credit here, I never used ball bearings. Because I'm a humanitarian!

226 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 11:28 AM (4sTLj)

Well said, EoJ.    It is dishonest to take the increase in abortion and lay it at the feet of those who absolutely push against abortion, while ignoring the efforts of those who push for mass serial murder of the helpless, or those who just want to ignore the "ick".  

Compromise solutions have worked so well in debates over fiscal matters.   Clearly we need to adopt it in moral debates such as abortion. 

How long did that 3/5 compromise for slavery last, again?   

227 Since when did Abortion come off Ace's list of Shit That Will Get You A Lead Pipe To The Head If You Bring It Up?

228 I see all these medical shows showing how operations are performed. Have they ever done one of those showing an actual abortion?

229 Posted by: tangonine at April 16, 2013 11:38 AM (x3YFz) Gosnell woke many up to the evil that is abortion. Without pictures it was not real.

230 Was there a time-warp? Also, did Obama say anything of interest?

231 Jenna Lee is a pretty lady.

232 From my weekend anthropology study, WaPo in the Mist, as a French anthropologist,  everything Laura states has been mentioned. They are "clumps of cells" (I would state how inconvenient some of them had lungs, beat the digoxin and other drugs Gosnell gave them, and lived anyway prior to having spinal columns snipped). I even would throw in a dash of "Michelle Obama's bangs got more attention than the murdered premie babies and filthy clinic of Gosnell's segregated slaugher house." Or, "baby seals have more rights than baby humans." Most of this was met with::crickets::

You are correct, too Laura. They are in total fear that this may shut down abortion everywhere. When they cry, "this will make it illegal!Eleventy!!" I tell them to look at the Philadelphia map, which shows many, many abortion clinics in Philadelphia, surrounding Gosnell...but that people came to him, some forcably (they do not seem to care about that sticky wicket: the girls against their will and tied down to the filthy stirrups). I ask, what about the segregation? More cricket chirping.

When they would wail that late term abortion is "rare" I would do the math for them: per Grand Jury report, Gosnell performed 3-4 late term abortions 24+weeks gestational age, once a week. Records were destroyed. There are no current records on abortion for the country to the CDC for numbers or demographics since 2009 (and their preznit was elected).

When they would state how "rare" it is to have a dirty slaughter house clinic, I would link the recent closure of Planned Parenthood clinic in Delaware, and throw in stats like in 38 states there are NO regular inspections by the state, it is sort of up to Planned Parenthood to maintain sterile environments and quality procedures. More crickets chirp.

What about the fact they were mostly teen black girls (I got called racist). They are afraid. And I mock relentlessly. Have taken a break due to being sad about Boston and losing my edge. But I will be back in the game soon to mess with their scrambled brains.

233 madamex,  I get it, but the conversation rarely changes anyone's mind one way or the other, it usually leads to knife fights in phone booths.

234 The clump of cells becomes a baby at five months, two weeks, three days, sixteen hours, four minutes and twenty-two seconds after conception. People who claim it's after that moment are deranged pro-choice absolutist ideologues; people who claim it's before are deranged pro-life absolutist ideologues. Those who believe it happens at exactly that moment are reasonable, non-ideological centrists.

235 BTW, it's not that I don't understand where you're coming from with this incrementalist approach. I certainly don't condemn you for it. This is just one of those areas where my conscience will not allow me less than absolute opposition to the unnecessary termination of human life. I can live with your opinion on the subject, but I also have to live with myself.

236 I was pro-life, but not hardcore pro-life, until I saw my son on his first ultrasound.  He was definately NOT an undifferentiated blob of tissue.

237 You see where I'm going here. They'll start performing officially sanctioned post-birth abortions (aka infanticide) soon, and--as long as they maintain control of the media--they'll probably get away with it.

We have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
We swear we just wanted to gin up some debate not push an agenda!

238 226 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 11:28 AM (4sTLj) Abortion is a money making empire. They give many young, irresponsible females low dose birth control that is easy to screw up, then they get them for the abortion. Never do they teach self-control. For women to have 3, 4, 5 or 6 (like Whoopie Goldberg) they have to be mental cases and/or low information voters.

239 Representative Steve King of Iowa, a prominent House conservative, says Congress should be cautious about rushing immigration reform, especially after Monday’s bombing in Boston, where three people were killed. “Some of the speculation that has come out is that yes, it was a foreign national and, speculating here, that it was potentially a person on a student visa,” King says. “If that’s the case, then we need to take a look at the big picture.” On immigration, King says national security should be the focus now, and any talk about a path to legalization should be put on hold. “We need to be ever vigilant,” he says. “We need to go far deeper into our border crossings. . . .We need to take a look at the visa-waiver program and wonder what we’re doing. If we can’t background check people that are coming from Saudi Arabia, how do we think we are going to background check the 11 to 20 million people that are here from who knows where.” On Monday, the Senate’s Gang of Eight postponed a planned press conference on its bill because of the events in Boston. Its legislation, however, will be unveiled today. Of course that makes perfect sense, which is why he will be ignored and made fun of

240 Gosnell did his deliver-then-murder abortions because he was an Affirmative Action case and too technically incompetent to actually perform the partial birth abortion. So he'd just deliver the baby then stab it, rather than stab it in the womb. Legally it makes all the difference where you kill the baby. A game of inches.

241 I'm for post-birth, pre-natural death abortions of Jihadis, does that count?

242 Posted by: Average Joe at April 16, 2013 11:42 AM (bN5ZU) -------------------- Oh, look. It's the cocksucker.

243 Republican Homeland Security leaders are knocking the Homeland Security Department’s decision to extend a trusted traveler program to Saudi Arabia before countries like the United Kingdom and France. Secretary Janet Napolitano reached an agreement in January with a top Saudi official to begin work on granting Global Entry status to Saudi Arabian citizens, allowing “pre-approved, low-risk travelers” to pass through customs more quickly in the United States at major U.S. airports.

244 “If that’s the case, then we need to take a look at the big picture.” Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture anyways? If there were NOT a bombing would you have been free to vote stupidly?

245 What little room in Hell has been reserved for Dr. Mengele Gosnell?

Bet it's really, really warm....

246 Was there a time-warp? Also, did Obama say anything of interest?

Posted by: Baldy at April 16, 2013 11:40 AM (opS9C)

 

 

--- Yes, and no

247
Oh, look. It's the cocksucker.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 11:45 AM (4sTLj)


My ex wife is here!?

248

Am I given to understand that Eric Holder's wife owned Gosnell's building?

 

Christ, if John Ashcroft's wife owned Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment building, we'd still be hearing about it.

 

 

 

249 Off off Eugenics covered Sock

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 11:42 AM (4sTLj)


I see your point EoJ.  But I wonder to what extent this is internally consistent.

Saying "I want that law it moves in the right direction (while being woefully inadequate) is not the same as saying "I support those cases not restricted by the law."

I tend to think of it the following way "damn it, I can't save them all, but at least this round I can save some while not stopping my agitation!"

250 Oh, look. It's the cocksucker. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 16, 2013 11:45 AM (4sTLj) My ex wife is here!? Posted by: tangonine at April 16, 2013 11:46 AM (x3YFz) She sucks cock and you got rid of her?

251 I think that we as a country are rather like the ordinary Germans during the Third Reich.  We know something bad is going on but we choose to avert our eyes.  I once heard Albert Speer talk about his use of slave labor to build armaments.  He basically said that he knew that the amount of food provided to the slave labor was inadequate but he just didn't think about it. 

252 Without constant care, a newborn will die just like a 'clump of cells' will. Perhaps 'viability' is a bad metric. I saw my son's heartbeat when he was 2mm in size. He was human and alive.

253 She sucks cock and you got rid of her?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 16, 2013 11:47 AM (9Bj8R)

I had to take a number.

254 Am I given to understand that Eric Holder's wife owned Gosnell's building? Christ, if John Ashcroft's wife owned Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment building, we'd still be hearing about it. Posted by: @JohnTant at April 16, 2013 11:46 AM (tVWQB) No not his building, just another building and another abortion clinic

255 The first rule of abortion club, is don't talk about abortion.  The details tend to undermine the position.

256 Who killed more, Gosnell or the terrorist(s) yesterday?  Just saying...

257 Posted by: @JohnTant at April 16, 2013 11:46 AM (tVWQB)

No, she owns stake in a different building with a doc under investigation for different stuff.

258

She sucks cock and you got rid of her?

 

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 16, 2013 11:47 AM

 

 

Never said it was *his* cock.

 

259 Also, did Obama say anything of interest? He plead for clarity.

260 So, can we agree now that rape and incest provisions are morally wrong, or can someone explain to me which picture of a headless baby is morally justified by how it was conceived?

261 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 16, 2013 11:47 AM (iANqq)

No shit viability is a bad metric.  It's philosophically unsound on multiple levels.

Setting aside the obvious thing you pointed out, "viability" is often determined by how much medical care we give a child and what medical tech we have.  It's a target moving ever closer to conception (although it may never hit there).  (I think it's at like 24 weeks now.  even 15 years that would have been unheard of.)

262 Republicans are dropping the ball politically. They should be out there with a clear message: Obama failed and Napolitano failed.

263 How long did that 3/5 compromise for slavery last, again?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 16, 2013 11:37 AM (rm+Am)

That 3/5 agreement in the Constitution wasn't about slavery so much as it was about getting the vote count in the South up and getting more delegates to congress.  The South would have been glad to count ALL of them for census purposes.

As for the abortion debacle it originally was illegal in most States to perform an abortion after the first trimester. Indeed for the really early history of the nation abortion after "quickening" was a felony in all the colonies.

264 I tend to think of it the following way "damn it, I can't save them all, but at least this round I can save some while not stopping my agitation!" ---------------------- I get it. I really do. And I would not bitch about any law that restricted abortion in any meaningful way, because let's face it, there are effectively none in this country.

265 Also, did Obama say anything of interest? He plead for clarity. You mean a bold and presidential "Let me be clear"? He's awesome.

266 If I had a son he would look like Baracka Obama and Gosnell..................Thank You !!!

267 Republicans are dropping the ball politically. They should be out there with a clear message: Obama failed and Napolitano failed. The Republicans don't even know there's a ball. The thing that troubles me a little: where is Mitt Romney? He could have Breitbarted Obama's mic.

268 Great observations, LW. Difficult to be concise about the larger issues made apparent by your points, but we need to find a way to address them - comprehensively, soonest, and as an integral part of an alternative to our current, broken public education system. In no particular order, these are: 1. Perennial compromise with the recurring socially suicidal demands of moral adolescents is ultimately socially suicidal in its own right. Morally mature conservatives have become experts at compromising away society's future (see also: Toomey). This has to stop. 2. Moral adolescents relentlessly demand compromise from others - it's their pseudo-mature way of eventually getting everything they want. And it works. See #1. 3. Appeal to Emotion fallacies, like citing "the children" in the context of (ultimate) total gun confiscation, can NOT be squared with this attitude that *some* children don't count when moral adolescents don't want to count them. This is why Gosnell is ignored by the liberal media and why detestable moral adolescents like Marcotte react to the issue as they do. 4. Moral adolescents are drawn to the socially suicidal ideology we refer to as "liberal" or "socialist", and which they refer to as "progressivism", this is clinically demonstrated in all cultures. As such, liberals don't demand socially suicidal policy because they've *chosen* to be liberal based on some rational, intellectual evaluation; they demand socially suicidal policy because they have not matured, morally, to the point where they can think rationally through to the real-world consequences of their demands, and they simply hang with the tribe that shares this disability. These are each broad topics in their own right, but IMHO they are "first principles" that need to be part of any framework which addresses individual wedge and non-wedge issues like abortion. The key point is this: in "debating" issues like abortion with the left, we are not opposing well-considered ideas promoted by mature individuals who simply have a "different point of view" from ours, as might be the case for issues of faith, for instance. This is we have a First & Second Amendment, but no mention of a right to abortion (or equivalent) in the Bill of Rights. As you reveal, Gosnell makes this point perfectly clear which, again, is why his crimes are being ignored or dismissed by the left as "local crime" or irrelevant to the larger issue. The larger issue is this: unrestricted abortion is a non-negotiable demand of the left because restrictions on abortion would ALSO require attendant social policy that would reduce the millions of unwanted pregnancies produced by the social constructs they relentlessly promote. And that opens the can of worms the left dare not open, because ANY social program that instills individual responsibility with respect to pregnancy will, by definition, raise the level of individual responsibility generally. And individual responsibility, as well as the rest of the morally mature mindset that goes with it, is anathema to the entitled mindset, pathological/generational dependency, general ignorance and all the other social ills upon which the left depends to promote their Utopian agenda of wealth redistribution and bigger, more totalitarian government.

269 238 "Abortion is a money making empire." Yes. In fact I wonder a little if the ridiculous fandance of performing partial-birth abortions rather than just doing a Gosnell deliver-and-"snip" isn't partly about money as well as being a PR and legal dodge. Inducing labour and then severing the spine - that sounds almost like something a midwife could do. Where's the need for a surgical specialist in that?

270 I think that in the light of the Gosnell horrors, Republicans, conservatives and pro-lifers should politicize this. They need to approach this just like the gun banners approach any shooting incident. They need to look at the left's playbook, and hang Gosnell on Obama and Holder. ESPECIALLY since it now appears Holder's wife owns the building Gosnell used for his clinic. They should be running ads with the pictures of Gosnell's victims.
Anything that can roll back this culture of death is a good thing.
Abortion is the "sacrament" that allows sex to be consequence free for all. It allows men to walk away and it allows the left to grow government to support those left behind by dirtbag guys.

271 Got this off of google before it got too clogged up. 2006 Mumbai train bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Mumbai_train_bombings Pressure cookers were used in this bombing and other recent explosions to increase .... On 14 July, Lashkar-e-Qahhar, a terrorist organisation possibly linked to ...

272 You guys make excellent points. Of course zero abortions is the perfect world. But we live in the world which is imperfect- shoot, not just that, but fallen and brutal. Zero-tolerance policies which allow no exceptions have their own inherent brutality, and cause their own problems. We can be totally opposed to the slaughter- but acknowledge that saving some children is better than none. And that a political overreach can be worse for our cause than doing nothing. As it is for the other side.

273

"As long as the belief persists among most reasonable people that the child has not been formed yet, and will not suffer, they will tolerate this practice even if they think it is wrong."

I agree with this. I think many of the people who think of themselves as "pro-choice" just don't think about it much. They don't want viable fetuses aborted, but they believe most abortions are done early, and are just a clump of cells. They don't want victims of rape or incest to be forced to have a baby. They don't want a mother's life to be threatened by giving birth. They've never seen a picture of a 7 week old fetus. They don't really know the statistics on why the vast majority of abortions (including late-term) are performed, i.e., convenience and financial reasons.  You force them to think about it, and look at the reality of it, that support disappears.

274   That 3/5 agreement in the Constitution wasn't about slavery so much as it was about getting the vote count in the South up and getting more delegates to congress. The South would have been glad to count ALL of them for census purposes. 

Posted by: Vic at April 16, 2013 11:54 AM (53z96)

And the North wanted none.   It was a bandaid compromise on the issue of slavery (and how it played into political representation) to get the United States off the ground.   

Later fights over the inclusion of new slave/non-slave states were also about political representation - if the majority of new states were non-slave states, that would change the balance of power in the Senate.  To say it was "only politics" is to ignore the purpose of the political power sought.  

As far as the relation of the 3/5 compromise to absolutism, I don't think there is a clean or easy way to resolve this issue.   There will be a tipping point and a choice in either direction, much like on the issue of slavery.  

275

President Obama and Congress should pass a law that requires people to register pressure cookers so what happened in Boston does not re-occur.

276 I've noticed that abortion proponents don't even emphasize "lump of cells" as much as they did during the nineties.  Now they emphasize "women's rights" and try to scare women with transvaginal ultrasound.

277 Some days I just want to say "Let it burn!!" This is one of them.

One end of the birth canal or the other? One moment or the next? Who the hell cares? They want a dead clump of cells? Let them have their dead clump of cells. And what's so magical about birth? Two year old clumps of cells are still pretty non-viable in lots of ways, not to mention inconvenient. Why should a woman be punished with one of those?

Let's just say "Clumps of cells are fair game!". As long as their demise is ensured in a humane manner, of course -- we're not monsters, after all. Until the clump of cells can pry the scissors from its mother's hand on its own and move out of its room in the basement and get a job and stop being a burden, hey, what the hell. Gimme mine.

They're right! Gosnell is a f***ing hero. Standing up for the rights of poor disadvantaged women. Well, most of 'em anyhow. Omelets, eggs, you understand. OK. Fine. Let 'em have it their way.

One day, the worm will turn.

Or SMOD. Or something.

Now excuse me. I have to go hug  my grandkids.

278 test

279 I wish the person posting as Moral Majority would have been aborted. He or she is nothing but static. I bet he or she would suddenly become pro-life if it involved his or her own neck. Funny how that works, isn't it?

280 I think I got here late. I usually do. The parade has gone by. Many of the posts here are so much more persuasive than the typical pro-abortion editorials put forth by most newspapers. Of course, not needing to distort reality to suit an agenda does make the task easier. If every person in this country knew all the relevant facts pertaining to abortion, the overwhelming push would be to ban it in 99.9+% of cases and all the deceptive, obfuscatory language of the pro-abortion crowd would be revealed to be the empty wordplay that it is. Unfortunately, with the press made up of who it is, that's unlikely to happen any time soon. I do think there may well come a time when those who ignored the rights of the unborn will be viewed with scorn by the overwhelming majority. None of us will be here to see that, though, at least in our current bodies. We have to settle for being on the side of the defenseless. I guess that's something. God bless most of you here. It did my ole heart good to read so many compassionate, rational comments. Those are hard to come by on TV or in the newspapers or magazines.