1 Oneth?

2 The perfect/only solution: more money!!!

Right, Steny Hoyer???

3 Ahh, my day is complete. Good thing too, since I'll have to  surrender our only working laptop  to B'Gal here shortly.

4
Sargasso Sea?  Is that a Mexican Band?

Sombreros all around!

5 At least NASA had their shit together for a while.

6

Yet all of the   Barrycade signage was ready to go the day of the   partial gubmint shutdown.

 

Priorities.

7 So the ObamaCare IT wildfire is still out of control. Watch it burn, baby.

8 The plan information from healthcare.gov is available at www.valuepenguin.com in an easily searchable format. They even estimate your subsidy. Apparently no one knows about this site, but it can blow Obamacare wide open by bringing all the information into the light.

9

CNN quietly admits the Zerocare site, better known as 404care, is doomed.

 

http://tinyurl.com/k8o86ld

10 Double shot of Doom . Nice .

11 If you are bleeding out, press 6...

12
... did anybody go get Willow???????

13 8 The plan information from healthcare.gov is available at www.valuepenguin.com in an easily searchable format. They even estimate your subsidy. Apparently no one knows about this site, but it can blow Obamacare wide open by bringing all the information into the light.

Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:05 PM (ELdpj)

And, outside of righty blogs, nobody will hear a thing about it.

14 I would say it is more like the Black Hole of Calcutta of federal projects.

15 That pirate ship out there hasn't moved an inch in, like, forever. We've been stuck in that disgusting sargassum -- which, by the way, no matter how you cook it, still tastes like hot sargassum -- it's been like, ten years.

Ghost Pirate Captains can impart awesome wisdom from time to time.

16 I'm pretty sure Vic knows Pascal. Personally.

17 At least NASA had their shit together for a while. Back when they used slide rulers...

18 All we need is more time. Maybe a 5 year plan.

So sorry...you didn't give us enough time to do this right, because we SO coulda done it perfectly, you guys.

19

A lot of the kids doing the programming of these systems have never worked with legacy stuff written in COBOL and stored on mainframes. In fact, the agencies themselves often have no idea how to modify the mainframe stuff -- all the programmers who wrote that stuff retired years ago. It might as well be written in Sumerian cuneiform for all they know.

 

---

 

When I took COBOL in college, after the end of the Y2K bubble, everyone I knew who was a programmer asked why it was a requirement for my degree.

 

Turns out that an ability to understand COBOL and write in Visual Basic ended up getting my my current job, as we had to move a ton of legacy shit over from COBOL into a new system written in VB using SQL Server.

 

Of course, the agency I work for had also been training its own programmer, in-house, how to do COBOL for years to maintain that beast in part because few schools out there still teach it.

20 i have zero sympathy for anyone who voted for the scoamt.....

21 When I was active duty USAF, the civilians that wrote our mainframe software were very talented and the technical writers were outstanding.  Too bad they all retired.  Some of those old guys could, and WOULD have pointed out the mistakes in the Obamacare implementation, likely to deaf ears.

22

You have to deal with civil-service lifers who are "in charge" of the project, but have absolutely no computer or IT management background. You run into inter-service turf battles, procurement headaches, long delays in communicating with project principals...Christ, the list is endless.

 

THIS.   This is why I've been saying since this monstrosity "passed" that there was no way in hell they'd have a system up and running by this year.   It was absolutely ludicrous to believe otherwise. 

 

And to now have people throwing out estimates of,  "They've got four weeks to fix this," I have to laugh.   The bureaucratic oversight by luddite civil servants was bad enough during the initial development phase.  It will be several orders of magnitude WORSE now, because this rollout has made the gubmint   Look Bad.   People are scrambling to save face and look involved,   which means they will   micromanage every damn detail    even more than they did before.      It will be excruciating for the programmers;   if they don't go insane it will be a   miracle.

23

A lot of federal agencies (Immigration, IRS, etc.) have a huge amount of legacy data sitting in mainframe databases. And these mainframe systems are, in many cases, a decade or more behind the technology curve. It's not just a matter of "implementing an interface" to the data -- it requires an enormous amount of heavy-lift to just extract the data and make it visible to the outside world in a usable form.

 

 

 

Old and Busted: We're from the government and we're here to help you!

 

The New Hotness: We're from the government and we'd really be able to muck things up if we could only figure out how!

 

24

15 That pirate ship out there hasn't moved an inch in, like, forever.
We've been stuck in that disgusting sargassum -- which, by the way, no
matter how you cook it, still tastes like hot sargassum -- it's been
like, ten years.

Ghost Pirate Captains can impart awesome wisdom from time to time.

 

---

 

Now that we're done with that... what happened to the spirit of Major Tom?

25 We used to write database routines through software with SQL that would interface with our mainframes. Will that not work with the government legacy shit or is even beyond that?

26 That's not true. Just because the data is on the mainframe and maintained via COBOL programs, doesn't mean the data is inaccessible. If the data is in DB2 databases, the data is accessible. I happen to know from personal (recent) experience that at least some CMS data is in DB2.

27 did anybody go get Willow??????? Backwards Boy paged her....

28 "And, outside of righty blogs, nobody will hear a thing about it. Posted by: joncelli at October 23, 2013 02:07 PM (RD7QR) Well, I'm not sure even bloggers know about it right now. It's literally invisible on Twitter. It's a game xhanger. We just need to spread the word and start publicizing plans.

29

And if you, as an external entity, want a data feed from these systems and request a SOAP or REST web-service interface to the data, you're certain to get a blank stare or a "Huzzat?"

 

Yeah I can relate to that.

30

No need to go down and get Willow. I sent my little buddy down to herd her north.

 

http://tinyurl.com/lk4tm4x

31 Anyone ever heard of the concept of multi-valued fields?  Fun stuff.

32

A lot of federal agencies (Immigration, IRS, etc.) have a huge amount of legacy data sitting in mainframe databases. And these mainframe systems are, in many cases, a decade or more behind the technology curve. It's not just a matter of "implementing an interface" to the data -- it requires an enormous amount of heavy-lift to just extract the data and make it visible to the outside world in a usable form. And that's before you start worrying about things like security, normalization, or data-transformation.

 

This isn't just fed data either, though    fed databases are certainly huge.   All of the states also ahve to transform their legacy data.   When I worked at NH DHHS, the data system was so old and dated it was considered too expensive and too time-consuming to update.   And that was just FINANCIAL data.  

33 Willow's in Peruvia with ace.

34 22 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at October 23, 2013 02:09 PM (4df7R)


And just think of the daily staff meeting where every ignorant asshole has to pop in with crap they know nothing about but what they think will make them look good to their boss.

35 It might as well be written in Sumerian cuneiform for all they know. And if you, as an external entity, want a data feed from these systems and request a SOAP or REST web-service interface to the data, you're certain to get a blank stare or a "Huzzat?"

-----------------


I can relate. 

Time to go to the outlet mall. 

36 I'd like to feel a shred of pity but I think I threw that out with the recycling on Tuesday.

37 There is 'server side' processing and there is 'client side'. I've seen the 'client side' code and it's a mess. I can only imagine what the server side looks like. // I wrote a few programs in Cobol, and dismissed it as overly tedious, excessively wordy, and demanding.

38
IF: Vote for Obama = TRUE
THEN: "Fuck Off Choad"
ELSE: Carry On

39 8 The plan information from healthcare.gov is available at www.valuepenguin.com in an easily searchable format. They even estimate your subsidy. Apparently no one knows about this site, but it can blow Obamacare wide open by bringing all the information into the light. Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:05 PM (ELdpj) Lauren, were you able to estimate your insurance payment on that site?

40 The FAA went through a lot of this when the century mark was approaching as they quickly had to rustle out several retired computer technicians to search old code... and they barely got it done in time.

I can attest to Monty's point.. there is very poor sharing of info when problems are fixed unless someone decides to try and fight the system and share.  Even then, you run into complaints of trying to steal a job down the road from someone else on a similar contract. 

The Government sloth-inertia is strong.  The known issues aren't to be fixed, they are to be slowly fixed by Govt' contractors ( unless safety is involved, then they pay through the nose to fix lickidy-split ). 

41 Vacuum tubes and punch cards.

42 All of this presents a near perfect opportunity for someone with bad intentions to get involved in the mix and cause all sorts of confusion and damage.


Game on...

43 And just think of the daily staff meeting where every ignorant asshole has to pop in with crap they know nothing about but what they think will make them look good to their boss. Yup. Bureaucratic committees that can't define what they want plus project managers who can't manage...

44 " Lauren, were you able to estimate your insurance payment on that site? Posted by: Tami - GO CARDS !!! at October 23, 2013 02:13 PM (bCE" Yep. Best deal is $200/month than we currently pay for 70/30 insurance with a higher deductible...and that's with a subsidy.

45 The Government sloth-inertia is strong. The known issues aren't to be fixed, they are to be slowly fixed by Govt' contractors ( unless safety is involved, then they pay through the nose to fix lickidy-split ). Best WAG on the fix timeframe? Second Tuesday after never?

46 Best deal is $200/month than we currently pay for 70/30 insurance with a higher deductible...and that's with a subsidy.

Is that $200 more?

47 "God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States -- a total failure, losing all credibility with the American people on the economy, on the war, on energy, you name the subject," Pelosi told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in an exclusive interview.

48
Just think.   This is just the ENROLLMENT they've botched up badly.

Just wait till they are running all the heart by-passes, chemo treatments and liver transplants.

49 "Is that $200 more?" Yes, sorry. $200/month more. We currently pay $550. This plan is $750.

50 Yep. Best deal is $200/month than we currently pay for 70/30 insurance with a higher deductible...and that's with a subsidy. Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:15 PM (ELdpj) Do you trust the site? Do you know who put it together?

51 OT


I just saw an ad for a Glock 24C.  I did not know they made this version.

This is the long slide with the ports cut into the barrel.  $500 used.

Is this a good deal for a rare pistol?

52 If it's anything like the IT dept of my employer, it'll go something like this:

Hello, IT.  Here are the specifications for the app we want you to develop.

*six months later*

OK, here's the app you requested.

Umm, IT?  This app is broken and not what we specified.

Really?  Looked good to us but we'll fix it.  Just send $5 million our way to cover the costs of correcting our fuckup.

53 And, outside of righty blogs, nobody will hear a thing about it. Posted by: joncelli at October 23, 2013 02:07 PM (RD7QR) And this is because the Liberal Democrats have Studios, Sound Stages, Production teams, Transmitters, Cables, Satellites, actors, and microphones while we sit around with party-line versions of soupçons and strings.

54 Didya get the memo about the new cover sheets for the TPS reports?

55 There must be some way to repurpose that old joke: Q: Wohat did Jesus say to President Obama? A: Don't get that website working until I return!

56 Yeah, I got call back as a consultant when the IT department witch drove off all of the VAX/COBOL people and was stuck with no one to run the legacy systems that still ran the company. (She said six months to get rid of it. It took ten years) The Indians she brought in were absolutely baffled by flat files, especially ones with multiple record types. Still loved coming back from a couple of days off with operations telling me they rebooted the VAX because something wasn't working right. Luckily it didn't screw anything up.

57

The real problem is that they still want to use the Legacy crap, instead of getting people in to do a Data Migration.

 

Data is Data.... its just 1's and 0's.... its pulling it from one format into another that 'can' be a challenge.... so you need to go into the project with THAT mindset.... ie... that you are going to pull the legacy data out and get it into a modern format... not figure out some way for your Middleware to access that legacy date, on legacy equipment... in an old format...

58 Anyone elses' comments acting glitchy ? Loading wise ?

59 pixy taking a coffee break?

60 >>>Vacuum tubes and punch cards. Posted by: wooga<<< Once you read in the punch card, you can send the data over via FTP.

61 Institutional memory be old school. We be da new school

62 26 That's not true. Just because the data is on the mainframe and maintained via COBOL programs, doesn't mean the data is inaccessible. If the data is in DB2 databases, the data is accessible. I happen to know from personal (recent) experience that at least some CMS data is in DB2. Posted by: Lynne at October 23, 2013 02:10 PM (8oCSY) Messed around a bit with DB2 and DBXL but found it bored me to tears. All I do anymore is C++ and Assembly.

63 WHo b0rked the blog?

64 Yeah, I'm getting a glitchy load too.

65 I started my career as a systems programmer with an Army agency in 1990 and have worked at many different levels throughout the beast and with several contractors extremely close to the public trough. In the last ten years, I have been working in an area about as far from government as it is possible to get in this industry. The retardedness is everywhere. The one common thread I have noticed is competitive pressure. Organizations able to kick back and charge rent as their main line of business will do stupid things on purpose because there is no benefit to being smart. So, a federal agency within DoD that operated a service center that competes with other DoD service centers for transactional business on a bill-back (funny money) basis had a much more agile IT department than a multinational retailer I am working with that happens to have a lock on their market here. About fifteen years ago, I was working a tiny part of a major project underway at an iconic American brand. The major project was a huge clusterfuck with consultants from four out of the big six (at the time) occupying cube space in the customer's IT department. The company employee assigned as my contact told me over beers that it didn't matter how well or how poorly the implementation went because the brand would sell enough product year after year to book a profit.

66 It's as though millions of Pixy's  computer hamsters cried out  in anguish   and were then silenced. I fear  something terrible has happened.

67 WHo b0rked the blog?

I blame Baldilocks.

68 "Do you trust the site? Do you know who put it together?" Yeah, it looks pretty solid. You don't have to give any identifying information, just basic age/family size/income.

69 Not all the COBOL programmers have retired--as a matter of fact about 100,000,000 lines of new COBOL code gets written every year and about the same modified.  About five years ago, the big banks and other businesses with huge transactional processing needs recognized that there was a talent shortage with regards to COBOL/CICS and mainframes.  Unfortunately for them, the computer science student of today has been completely sold the "mainframe is dead", so you don't have to know anything about them bill of goods.

I attended a Computer Associates/IBM seminar where they discussed trying to figure out how to get young people interested in COBOL/CICS.  Both companies pointed out that any young CompSci major should learn both client/server and mainframe and that anyone who did could get a job with either one of them.  One thing CA was funding was taking inner city students who had demonstrated an aptitude for programming and completely funding their education with the caveat that they attend a CA mainframe course of study and complete it successfully.

The leap to client server neatly ignored the fact that transaction programming is far more efficient on huge mainframes than client/server farms.  COBOL was designed to process business rules.  CICS was designed to process transactions.  Java and other languages were designed for other things.  That does not even address the orders of magnitude in how much difference the efficiency is for storing enormous databases in DB2 or Oracle than in SQL Server, etc.

70 AoSHQ Comments: Glitchy Healthcare.gov: Completely hosed

71 You must have missed Eugene Robinson opining on Morning Joe how if the government knows one thing, it's computers. The sheer stupidity was amazing.

72 Yeah, I'm getting a glitchy load too Sounds gross .

73 I'll post some details of the plans available to me. First, this hilarious option. "Deductible 0% Coinsurance 50% (!!!!!!!) Out of Pocket Maximum $6,350 More Details Monthly Cost $976.40 Premium: $1,115.94 Subsidy: $139.54

74 Just wait till they are running all the heart by-passes, chemo treatments and liver transplants.

Posted by: fixerupper at October 23, 2013 02:17 PM (nELVU)

I quit drinking and I'm going to start running today!

75 Yeah, it looks pretty solid. You don't have to give any identifying information, just basic age/family size/income. Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:29 PM (ELdpj) Ok, thanks.

76 About fifteen years ago, I was working a tiny part of a major project underway at an iconic American brand. The major project was a huge clusterfuck with consultants from four out of the big six (at the time) occupying cube space in the customer's IT department. The company employee assigned as my contact told me over beers that it didn't matter how well or how poorly the implementation went because the brand would sell enough product year after year to book a profit.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at October 23, 2013 02:29 PM (V3kRK)

Yep, have been on many of those projects at Fortune 50 companies.

77 I worked on a giant government IT project (15 year contract) and it had many of the issues described above. Not to mention the agency had a 40 year data retention policy. They had data on media that they had to keep machines around in the warehouse to run.... Remember in Apocalypse Now, the bridge at the Cambodian border, how they said that every day they would build the bridge, Charlie would come around every night and blow it up? That is how this project was. I called hte night shift Charlie. We would set it all up, the night shift would come around and blow it all up and we would have to fix it again. As a taxpayer I was appalled at it.

78 Obamacare Website Has 10 Times More Code than WindowsXP Healthcare.gov has about 500 million lines of code Windows XP has about 45 million lines of code Mac OSX 10.4 has about 85 million lines of code Breitbart: http://tinyurl.com/lafb8s7

79 The Obamacare website is Pixy, no?

80

I quit drinking and I'm going to start running today!

 

You'll just die tired.

 

And sober.

81 Or perhaps: Deductible $3,000 Coinsurance 20% Out of Pocket Maximum $6,350 More Details Monthly Cost $896.17 Premium: $1,035.72 Subsidy: $139.54

82 Dang it finally loaded. You cleaned up the loose shit.

83 41 Vacuum tubes and punch cards. Posted by: wooga at October 23, 2013 02:14 PM (i1C6X) Stone knives and bearskins...

84 Yeah, it looks pretty solid. You don't have to give any identifying information, just basic age/family size/income. Which is the way 404Care should have been designed. Give the customer the information, let him shop, THEN when the customer is satisfied, start hitting him up for information. Bass ackwards govmint will always do things bass ackwards.

85 I quit drinking and I'm going to start running today!

You'll just die tired.

And sober.

Posted by: eleven at October 23, 2013 02:33 PM (GXZgZ)

And miles and miles from home.

86 Five hundred million lines of code can't be wrong!

87 Sargasso    Tea?     Never      heard      of      it.

88 Let's drop down to the $700's shall we? Deductible $5,000 Coinsurance 30% Out of Pocket Maximum $6,350 More Details Monthly Cost $799.07 Premium: $938.61 Subsidy: $139.54

89 Holy Sh!t, over at Drudge...Dear Leader spied on Angela Merkel's phone and Merkel is pissed. Lower das boom on him, Angela!

90
I just saw an ad for a Glock 24C. I did not know they made this version.

This is the long slide with the ports cut into the barrel. $500 used.

Is this a good deal for a rare pistol?



Posted by: EC at October 23, 2013 02:21 PM (GQ8sn)

Probably. A buddy of mine has a Glock 17L that was valued at $900.

91 Obama thought it was 500 million lines of coke...

92 "I've been on government IT projects where no one can even find the source code to the systems we were asked to maintain."

======

Or worse:

Real Programmers are reluctant to actually edit a program that is close to working. They find it much easier to just patch the binary object code directly, using a wonderful program called SUPERZAP (or its equivalent on non-IBM machines). This works so well that many working programs on IBM systems bear no relation to the original Fortran code. In many cases, the original source code is no longer available. When it comes time to fix a program like this, no manager would even think of sending anything less than a Real Programmer to do the job-- no Quiche Eating structured programmer would even know where to start. This is called "job security"

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

93 Federal IT systems are at least 10-20 years behind everyone else usually from my experience.  DOD still uses a MS DOS based system for pay accounts.  Master Military Pay Account (MMPA) is a beast and has about 60 pages of "verbs" that you need to memorize to get to the screen you need.  JJAA, AMF1, etc.  It is literally stuck in the 1980s with no replacement in sight.  I do think the USMC uses something different now though, not sure.

94 ObamaCare, I hand the "Blue Screen of Death" Crown and Sceptre over to you. I am no longer worthy to have them.

95 And just think of the daily staff meeting where every ignorant asshole has to pop in with crap they know nothing about but what they think will make them look good to their boss. Heh. I was thinking about going Galt by going back to school. I took a vendor's technology class back in March (I hadn't been in a classroom since the late '90s), and I had my nose rubbed into why I cannot stand being in school before we broke for lunch on the first day. The punkass little challenge-everything bitches are even worse now than I remembered.

96 "Which is the way 404Care should have been designed. Give the customer the information, let him shop, THEN when the customer is satisfied, start hitting him up for information. " But they didn't want the customer to see the numbers I'm now posting...

97
I've ordered Secretary Sebelius to continue speaking with the media about the glitches, but in her spare time, she's to polish the turd with greater speed and vigor. 

98 88 I vote none of the above.

99

Your first paragraph is completely. Most data in most Fortune 500 companies is on what you call lagacy mainframes. They support all kinds of applications from Linux to Web servers to traditional DB2/CICS/etc workloads. You can run thousands of Linux guests on one mainframe. I've support mainframes and midrange and find balnket statements such as yours are never accurate about any environment.

I do really enjoy your web site though, everyday!

100 That's not true. Just because the data is on the mainframe and maintained via COBOL programs, doesn't mean the data is inaccessible. If the data is in DB2 databases, the data is accessible. I happen to know from personal (recent) experience that at least some CMS data is in DB2. My FiL was a system maintenance guy for a [ large recognizable hospital group near San Fran ]. Their software was a custom job that didn't USE a modern database. It was all written using BTrees.

101 The pressing issue is all of this legacy data ( and functions ) and transference to new platforms.   The Govt ( even State Govts' ) need it done and it will cost money and time, but the way the system is set up, it seems everyone benefits from dragging it out. 

Contracts are let and maintained and Govt leviathans get to blame inefficiencies on old systems, therefore they ask Congress for moar money!  Rinse, cycle, repeat.  No one loses except the sanity of the contractors or Govt employees with sense of honor and of course, the tax paying pubes.

102 BRUSSELS (AP) -- European lawmakers on Wednesday called for the suspension of an agreement that grants U.S. authorities access to bank data for terror-related investigations, marking a sharp official rebuke of Washington's surveillance programs. http://tinyurl.com/mfbqgfr Way to go, Obama!

103 600's? Deductible $3,000 Coinsurance 20% Out of Pocket Maximum $9,000 More Details Monthly Cost $675.69 Premium: $815.24 Subsidy: $139.54

104 Should have said 'completely false'.

105

Well, I'm not sure even bloggers know about it right now. It's literally invisible on Twitter. It's a game xhanger. We just need to spread the word and start publicizing plans.

----------------

 

Yup.  Let everyone know about the ACA calculations website.  I stuck a friendly link on my Facebook page, obviously because I merely wanted my friends to be able to plan ahead and figure out how much their new insurance plan was going to cost.

 

*cough*

 

106 99 Your first paragraph is completely. Your explanation is totally.

107 103 That's more than my Effin rent.

108 Real Programmers are reluctant to actually edit a program that is close to working. They find it much easier to just patch the binary object code directly, using a wonderful program called SUPERZAP (or its equivalent on non-IBM machines). This works so well that many working programs on IBM systems bear no relation to the original Fortran code. In many cases, the original source code is no longer available. When it comes time to fix a program like this, no manager would even think of sending anything less than a Real Programmer to do the job-- no Quiche Eating structured programmer would even know where to start. This is called "job security"

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

Posted by: Nighthawk at October 23, 2013 02:35 PM (OtQXp)

You laugh, but, back in the day, my husband managed a group that changed object code on a Fortran geophysical mapping program for which the source was long gone.  They would change the object code and submit the job.

109 Great post, Monty. 

In addition IT has more levels of bureaucracy than almost any other department in any organization.

And given that we're talking about IT in government, the level of bureaucracy must be stunningly petrifying to any project.

The clients that use my software range from small mom & pop shops to really big financial institutions, and some banks.  The banks are ungodly difficult to work with because of federal privacy laws.  The users of the PC's that run the software we write have no rights to do nearly anything on their own PC's!

So.. I can imagine a federal project of the size of Obamacare must have way more people watching compliance with regulations than the actual programmers!

110 Im just waiting for Barry to do a new "I wanna know whose ass to kick" speech

111

89Holy Sh!t, over at Drudge...Dear Leader spied on Angela Merkel's phone and Merkel is pissed.

Lower das boom on him, Angela!

 

---

 

Gott im Himmel... dummkopf.

112 Those deductibles were all for the individual, btw. Double them or more for the family deductible.

113 103 I think all your premiums are missing a zero.

114

Yeah....I took one college class as an adult.

 

 

ONE.

115 Im just waiting for Barry to do a new "I wanna know whose ass to kick" speech


RUN!!!!

116 Lots of technical posts today. Could somebody toss the horde a bone - a bewbs post or a movie review or something?

117 86 Five hundred million lines of code can't be wrong!  
 

Posted by: Levin at October 23, 2013 02:34 PM (Hq48F)

 

 

We make it up with volume...

118 67 WHo b0rked the blog?

I blame Baldilocks.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 23, 2013 02:29 PM (SY2Kh)

 

 

 

Lemme guess - she wanted  to make it "Juuuust right"?

119 The Indians she brought in were absolutely baffled by flat files, especially ones with multiple record types. WTH were you using flat files? With multiple record types? Are you insane? When did the Navigational Database come into play? The freaking sixties?

120 *bangs head into VT-100 keyboard*
Our 'betters' in DC are trying to pass the blame buck around so much in regards to 404Care that the blame gets lost.  According to the NY Slimes, its not really Sebelius' fault since she was too immersed in the policy and well it was the White House who was keeping tabs on the web development.

http://tinyurl.com/mvdsqsg

121 Those deductibles were all for the individual, btw. Double them or more for the family deductible.


Oh my goodness, are you serious???

122 Let me be clear, inter-agency turf wars are cool, cut my teeth on them. Hey, got an extra cigarette?

123 "That's more than my Effin rent." Now you see why Obama hid that info behind the paywall of doom.

124 Moo Moo?

125 That's not true. Just because the data is on the mainframe and maintained via COBOL programs, doesn't mean the data is inaccessible. If the data is in DB2 databases, the data is accessible. I happen to know from personal (recent) experience that at least some CMS data is in DB2.

My FiL was a system maintenance guy for a [ large recognizable hospital group near San Fran ]. Their software was a custom job that didn't USE a modern database. It was all written using BTrees.

Posted by: bonhomme at October 23, 2013 02:36 PM (sByIH)

I never said it was inaccessible, our WebSphere guys and gals access it every damn day.  But, the data is generated by enormous COBOL/CICS systems on DB2 databases.  My only point, which usually gets missed is that COBOL/CICS is far from dead and the so called "death of the mainframe" has not happened, nor is it likely to do so.

126 Jeebus, Monty. It's like you're in the cube next to me.

127 Y2K remediation on a mission-critical Navy communications system that ran on a Unisys 1100 mainframe... Good news: We have the source code! Bad news: The ink in the printout has faded and the paper has browned to the point where print and paper are nearly indistinguishable. Good news: We've got an address for one of the original programmers! Bad news: it's a residential care facility specializing in dementia and Alzheimer's care.

128 "Oh my goodness, are you serious???" Yep. For example... Deductible (Individual) $6,000 Deductible (Family) $12,700 Coinsurance $0 Out of Pocket Maximum (Individual) $6,000 Out of Pocket Maximum (Family) Data Not Available

129 Somebody get the backhoe. We need to dig up some COBOL programmers.

130 Lauren -

That's insane. 

131

None of this applies to the 0Care website. Its not converting some ancient database, its creating a new one from scratch.

 

The root cause is that JavaScript is shit and they poured it on thick.

132

130Lauren -

That's insane.

 

---

 

And you wondered why they wanted the true cost of this piece of shit hidden by the amount of the subsidy.

133 No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible.  Money down the toilet.

134 They think they can fix it by Thanksgiving?

It'll take at least that long just to decide where everyone involved with the problem is going to sit

135 Mama winger, indeed it is. This is a gold mine. Everyone get on and check out your rates and then post them everywhere. Obama DOES NOT want this information out, so let's spread it like wild fire. I mean, $12,700 family deductible. Are you fucking kidding me?

136 I sent this write-up to Ace and Drew, but I don't know if they're going to do anything with it. I'm directly addressing a likely source of back-end problems like garbled data:  http://t.co/GZo95XnuU8  I'd like to post it as a contribution to this post as it directly bears on the topic of discussion, but my thoughts are entirely too lengthy for a blog comment.

The link is really my first and only blog post since 2008, so I doubt I'm dipping into the regular blogging pool, but allows me to contribute something to the common pool of knowledge about what's likely happening behind the scenes.

137 I guess, like C and RPG before it, a language - Java - was dragooned into doing things it was never intended for.

138 And you wondered why they wanted the true cost of this piece of shit hidden by the amount of the subsidy. So the torches & pitchforks don't come out.

139

If I get Health Insurance I will have to sleep in the woods. The policy is still unlikely to pay for anything.

140 speaking of tech and programming... Charles V Payne ‏@cvpayne 3m What the...phone looking out for me but my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 doesn't allow me to curse on emails. Not that I do (wink) but like options

141 Do you trust the site? Do you know who put it together? I donÂ’t know how accurate it is, but I just went through it and it doesnÂ’t ask for any personal information. It asks for state, age of each covered person, whether you (or the covered person) smokes, and income.

142 No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible.

I think that's kind of the point.

143 So, what you are saying is.....we are screwed? Minor understatement.

144 You laugh, but, back in the day, my husband managed a group that changed object code on a Fortran geophysical mapping program for which the source was long gone. They would change the object code and submit the job.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at October 23, 2013 02:37 PM (kXoT0)
======

Oh, I believe it all right- "back in the day" when I worked on systems for the gov't we had systems software that had been "hand changed" to the point that nobody knew what the source would have looked like, but it worked.

We also fixed software problems by switching memory boards around in the system chassis, but that is another story...

145 So it's possible to pay out of pocket a total of 24k per year before anything is reimbursed. 


Brilliant.

146

And you wondered why they wanted the true cost of this piece of shit hidden by the amount of the subsidy.

 

And this is what I hope will sink the entire   fiasco.

 

Along with the vague remembrances of the LIV's  of  things like, "If you like your plan/doctor, you can keep it" and "Your premiums  will go down 3000%."

147 The root cause is that JavaScript is shit and they poured it on thick. Atwood's Law: Any application that can be written in JavaScript will eventually be written in JavaScript.

148 Manual review of the applications by insurers allows them to deny applicants with pre-existing conditions. Let's say you are looking at two applications: one from a poor 60 year old woman with a heart condition and diabetes and another from a middle-class married couple with five kids aged 16, 18, 20, 22 and 24 and both applications are nonconforming. As an insurance agent, which application are you going to reject and which application are you going to try your hardest to fix? The dearth of enrollees may very well reflect this additional industry screening on top of all the other problems.

149 If I get Health Insurance I will have to sleep in the woods. The policy is still unlikely to pay for anything. *** I wonder if Ted Cruz should propose some sort of group-home project to house all the folks who will be displaced after paying for their mandatory health insurance.

150 I'd like a Sargasso Salad with a Soupçon of Hubris, please.

151 102 BRUSSELS (AP) -- European lawmakers on Wednesday called for the suspension of an agreement that grants U.S. authorities access to bank data for terror-related investigations, marking a sharp official rebuke of Washington's surveillance programs.

http://tinyurl.com/mfbqgfr


Way to go, Obama!

Posted by: Tami - GO CARDS !!! at October 23, 2013 02:36 PM (bCEmE)

 

 

 

It's all part of the plan.  If you take a completely objectionable look at everything obama's done/is doing, it becomes clear that he is trying to destroy this country.  He hates America.  He was raised by rabid American hating people.  Michelle hates America.  Valerie the Iranian hates America.  The left hates America.  What else can you expect of an Alinski, Cloward/Piven, community organizer?

152 The technical problems are the least of our worries in this pile of shit.   

Pardon my language.  But shit it is.

153

Isn't Java Script the one they keep compromising?

I am going to self insure. Much cheaper.

154 Holy Sh!t, over at Drudge...Dear Leader spied on Angela Merkel's phone and Merkel is pissed. Lower das boom on him, Angela! --- Gott im Himmel... dummkopf. Stiener...

155 Thanks Jazz... going to read ....

156 No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible. I think that's kind of the point. Like Social Security when it was first implemented. Most people died before they reached the age necessary to collect.

157 Jazz: I added your link at the end of my post.

158 Der Fuhrer is pissed.

159 This all sounds like good new except for the fact that Big Gov™ would never let this crisis go to waste by not wasting millions nay BILLIONS to fix the problem.



I'm going long on Doom.
And pixelated Mongolian tentacle pron.

160 No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible. I think that's kind of the point. PONZI!

161

154The technical problems are the least of our worries in this pile of shit.

Pardon my language. But shit it is.

 

---

 

We know it's a piece of shit.  They know it's a piece of shit.  The fact that it's such a piece of shit is raising the profile of everyone so that they might actually give a shit about it and possibly not step in it.

162 Like Social Security when it was first implemented. Most people died before they reached the age necessary to collect. **** safety.net.

163 I would take a $10,000 or even $12,700 deductible, but my premiums had better be, like, $50 month. That would actually make sense. My theory, upon seeing the scope of the project desired, is that it not only was it not "easy", it wasn't even possible. Sure, you could set up a health insurance exchange easily--but you're gonna connect to these other agencies? Yeah. No. Can't be done. The government reminds me of a worse version of Microsoft from the '80s and '90s. They made so many stupid decisions and put out enough crappy software to kill any other company. (Less bad decisions did kill: Borland, Lotus, WordPerfect, etc.) But they had an infinite supply of money from their DOS monopoly. (Which the Press fully encouraged, despite the better products out there.) Point is, it isn't just government. Any organization that is insulated from bad decisions will continue to make them until they're forced to stop. And every organization, even the government, ultimately is.

164

162No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible.

I think that's kind of the point.


PONZI!

 

---

 

If Ponzi had been a politician instead of an investment guru, he'd have gotten the Congressional Medal of Freedom.

165 They arrested a woman in Woodbridge for pulling a Biden.

166

Posted by: Adam B at October 23, 2013 02:46 PM (MQpNQ)

 

Fun part is that we really don't know how many of the people who have signed up through the system, actually HAVE Health Insurance.

 

And THEY don't know either... because it looks like all the site does is submit your info to an insurance carrier.... and that info in many cases is incorrect.

 

Thus we will have many people, who sign up... think they are covered.... but do not have health insurance...

 

Key is.... you don't have it until you pay a Bill....

167 I mean, $12,700 family deductible. Are you fucking kidding me?


What they aren't telling you is that you are supporting not just your family, but multiple other families with that deductible.


Which was the whole damn idea all along.

168 Holy Sh!t, over at Drudge...Dear Leader spied on Angela Merkel's phone and Merkel is pissed. *** but, but, but... the world will admire and respect us again!

169 "The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid ‘dens of crime’ that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result.

But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.

Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern. "


 ---  C.S. Lewis

170 Just remember folks, it was the US government, in an attempt to create a language to handle all things, that gave us ADA.  And then promptly abandoned it.

171 Rush said it quite well yesterday:  These people routinely demonize the private sector, but now when they have to do what it does (the ACA website), they realize that not only is it not easy, but now they're responsible.

Of course, as we've known since the beginning, this is merely the prelude to Taxpayer-Gifted Healthcare (f.k.a. single-payer).

172 Oh, by the way: Blaming Javascript for HealthCare.gov is like blaming guns for Aurora. Or World War II.

173

>>No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible. Money down the toilet.

.

.That has been my point from day one.  A Typical family of 4 will never meet their deductible unless someone in that family gets a serious catastrophic illness or is involved in some sort or accident.  That only happens to about 1% of the population a year. 

 

Along about May or June, people are going to start to say....hey, why am I still paying out of pocket for this plan?

174 If Ponzi had been a politician instead of an investment guru, he'd have gotten the Congressional Medal of Freedom. It'a a cross between Ponzi & Hotel California. Everyone pays in & no one can take out......

175 So, the shit's all retarded and talks like a fag?

176 They arrested a woman in Woodbridge for pulling a Biden.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 23, 2013 02:51 PM (ujMoa)

The lady was dumb, she should have just brandished it and stopped the whole thing.  Once you shoot, you'd better be telling a cop your life or someone else's was about to end if you hadn't.

Related:  do not buy expensive guns for defensive carry.  Most likely, you will never get it back from the cops.  Has Zimmerman gotten his back?

177 A straight man would have spied on Angela Merkel's humongous boobs -- not her cell phone.

178 Smart Diplomacy

179 "... all the programmers who wrote that stuff [COBOL] retired years ago."

Nope.  My rates are $250/hr.  Plus travel expenses.

180

133 No way is the average person even going to meet their deductible. Money down the toilet.

Correct. Its really too bad that Individual HSA are not allowed to accumulate monies beyond a year. Catastrophic Insurance combined with HSA that allow lifetime savings would have been the way to go when combined with national marketing of insurance. Imagine having a HSA with $50K in it and then shopping for a high deductible Cat policy.

181 Along about May or June, people are going to start to say....hey, why am I still paying out of pocket for this plan?

Posted by: Registered Voter at October 23, 2013 02:52 PM (nUbHY)

Yup.  95% of the time it'll be like having car insurance with a deductible equal to the value of the car.  In other words:  none.

182 Nobody knew what she was saying anyway. Who speaks Austrian these days?

183 Healthcare.gov has about 500 million lines of code

IBM's rule of thumb, proven by years of experience, is that ~12 bugs per thousand lines of code will be discovered once that code enters system/integration testing.  A few more will be encountered in the field after release.

Obamacare is clearly not even ready for that stage of testing, so we could expect to see a minimum of ((500M/1,000)*12) bugs yet to be discovered.

500M / 1,000 = 500,000
500,000 * 12 = 6M bugs

Fixing even 50,000 bugs is a herculean task that would take hundreds of programmers several years.

184 It's all part of the plan. If you take a completely objectionable look at everything obama's done/is doing, it becomes clear that he is trying to destroy this country. He hates America. He was raised by rabid American hating people. Michelle hates America. Valerie the Iranian hates America. The left hates America. What else can youexpect of an Alinski, Cloward/Piven, community organizer? Posted by: Havedash at October 23, 2013 02:47 PM (BRhGr) The main flaw in your theory is the assumption that Obama can do anything right. My theory is that he is a FUCKING IDIOT! If It was Obama's PLAN to destroy America, we would be seeing a great Renaissance of American prosperity.

185 A straight man would have spied on Angela Merkel's humongous boobs -- not her cell phone.



http://tinyurl.com/llt5l4v



My name is....Evinrude.

186

OK, code monkeys, I  gotta give the   laptop to B'Gal for the day.

 

Y'all have fun and try not to trash the place, 'k?

187 Nope. My rates are $250/hr. Plus travel expenses.

Posted by: John W. at October 23, 2013 02:55 PM (PVBzL)

Better add a zero to that number if you are gonna get involved with this fluster cluck.

188 Here's a the plan that most closely resembles what we currently have. We currently pay $550/month. Deductible $1,500 Coinsurance 20% Out of Pocket Maximum $3,500 More Details Monthly Cost $1,101.81 Premium: $1,241.36 Subsidy: $139.54 It meets the "ever so slightly less than our house payment" criteria, so there's that. Seriously, I'd laugh it it weren't actually happening to me.

189

Posted by: moviegique at October 23, 2013 02:50 PM (7zeA4)

 

The numbers don't add up.... because this is nothing more than a cost shift from Government, to the Insurance payer...

 

We spend on average $8500 a year on Health care as a Nation.  30% of healthcare costs come in the last year of Life... which is mainly Medicare folks.

 

The Government does not have the money to fully fund those costs.... so they are trying to get the Medical industry to cost shift to 'Healthy' clients... ie... they will charge more to the insurance companies of younger regular insurance folks than they will charge for the same thing for the elderly.

 

Thus, HEALTHY folks will be paying more than what the pool of healthy folks should, so the entire Health industry can survive.

 

Which is why you are seeing Health insurance rates, HIGHER than the average cost of healthcare for healthy people.

190 My daughter's policy has a $10,000 deductible. That's okay. She's young and healthy and it only cost her $40/mo. Of course, that went up to $60/mo when she had to start paying for Sandra Fluke's birth control. But now that her old policy is being discontinued, I think she'll be able to get close to the same coverage for about $500/mo. Even after subsidies (aka welfare,) it looks like it will be 3X what she paid before.

191

181 "... all the programmers who wrote that stuff [COBOL] retired years ago."

 

COBOLers are around for $50/hr. 

192 FUBARnado

193 ((mama winger)) how are you doing?

194 It meets the "ever so slightly less than our house payment" criteria, so there's that. Seriously, I'd laugh it it weren't actually happening to me.

Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:56 PM (ELdpj)

--------------

I am so truly and sincerely sorry. 

195 Related: do not buy expensive guns for defensive carry. Most likely, you will never get it back from the cops. Has Zimmerman gotten his back? I don't think so. There are a couple of things the police like to do to seized weapons. If it's used they fingerprint the gun and put it in a locker with no climate control. The powder is corrosive and what that doesn't destroy the rust will. The weapon is usually not salvageable. The other thing is, if it's an unused, but very nice gun, they'll have a "paperwork snafu" and "destroy" it. In actuality the Chief of Police or one of his buddies has a nice new weapon.

196 The Breitbart article has this quote from Jay Carney on the Merkel phone spying:

In Washington, White House spokesman Jay Carney said "the United States is not monitoring and will not monitor the communications of the chancellor."

is not.. will not..

notice he didn't say "has not"?

197 Spend the Premium on lottery tickets. You would be far more likely to ever see your money again.

198 I wrote some COBOL programs years ago.  I also know what a BALR and TRT are.

 wonder what the going rate for 370 assembler programmers in these days?

199 @195

I'm doing great, phoenixgirl!  Sadly, no more vacation trips to AZ for me though.  We moved my folks back to the area last month, after them being out in Tucson for the past 20 years.  Health issues necessitating the need for them to be closer to family again.

So there goes my tan. 

200 *hugs* thanks, mama winger. I'm trying the "laugh so you don't cry" approach. What a mess.

201 I took some UCSD Pascal in high schrool.

202 The main flaw in your theory is the assumption that Obama can do anything right. My theory is that he is a FUCKING IDIOT! If It was Obama's PLAN to destroy America, we would be seeing a great Renaissance of American prosperity. the main flaw in YOUR theory is that he got elected president twice in a center right country dont confuse diabolical and cunning and values completely opposite to yours as idiotic go to you tube and watch all the videos of obama himself calling for single payer health care its all over the place the obamacare rollout failure is not a bug its a feature they will use this to say we tried and it doesnt work its too hard to coordinate all this stuff between the private sector and the government so the government is just going to do it all now just sit back and watch this is all theater its all contrived

203 168: "Thus we will have many people, who sign up...think they are covered...but do not have health insurance..." My guess is that the ones with no pre-existing conditions who can pay will find themselves with insurance and the poor, sick ones won't. At least, that's how I would do it if I was processing applications and could reject or accept them at my discretion...which is what will happen if applications are manually reviewed.

204

Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:56 PM (ELdpj)

 

Note.... add premium, plus out of pocket total... and you get $17,900.... which is just a bit above the average healthcare cost of $8500... for 2 people...

 

Which tells me THEY expect there to be a LOT of Uncovered people out there...

205 I wrote some COBOL programs years ago. I also know what a BALR and TRT are.

wonder what the going rate for 370 assembler programmers in these days?

Posted by: Purp at October 23, 2013 03:00 PM (l5zzX)

You should pimp yourself with cut rates to get hired on with an outfit that is trying to salvage the website and db.  Once you're in, then have fun!

*evil grin*

206

190 Here's a the plan that most closely resembles what we currently have. We currently pay $550/month.

Deductible $1,500
Coinsurance 20%
Out of Pocket Maximum $3,500
More Details
Monthly Cost
$1,101.81
Premium: $1,241.36
Subsidy: $139.54


It meets the "ever so slightly less than our house payment" criteria, so there's that. Seriously, I'd laugh it it weren't actually happening to me.

Why don't you contact Candy Crowley with this info. I'm sure she would want to do a human interest story, especially one that makes Obama a liar. At $13,200/yr, it would be best to self insure and pay the premium to yourself. How much equity do you have in your house? You could set up a Line Of Credit for real emergencies while investing $13K/yr in British Pounds or real estate or ammo.

207 I think I need to update my resume to state I know COBOL.

208 Thanks, Monty & Yid.  I appreciate the eyes and linkage.

209 I took some UCSD Pascal in high schrool. Is that anything like Quaaludes?

210 "Nobody's madder than me about the fact that the website isn't working as well as it should, which means it's going to get fixed." (Laughter, applause.) I get why his audience is laughing but why are they applauding? Are there still people who believe he can also make the oceans recede?

211 211 With more semicolons.

212

206 Posted by: Lauren at October 23, 2013 02:56 PM (ELdpj)

Note.... add premium, plus out of pocket total... and you get $17,900.... which is just a bit above the average healthcare cost of $8500... for 2 people...

Which tells me THEY expect there to be a LOT of Uncovered people out there...

 

Reminds me of Social Security setting the age of retirement to the average age of death. FDR was a compassionate man.

213 Lemme guess - she wanted to make it "Juuuust right"?

No, for some reason I forgot that she's half Kenyan, not Nigerian.  Bad joke on my part.

214 off topic off the cuff comment So, got back from my errands and such, and perusing headlines... What I'm wondering is, what country hasn't the SCOAMF pissed off? Israel - check Saudi - check Egypt - check EU - check Russia - check China - check Anyone have the Preezy Meter for India? I suppose Mexico's meter is pretty high right now.

215 Monty Yid?

I meant "Monty & Yid"!

Typos are why I do not code.

216 Holy Sh!t, over at Drudge...Dear Leader spied on Angela Merkel's phone and Merkel is pissed.

Lower das boom on him, Angela!

**


Heh...Barack Obama, Making friends and influencing the next cold war.

217 What I'm wondering is, what country hasn't the SCOAMF pissed off?


Add in Britain and Canada to the list.

218 Really? The damn "and" sign doesn't show in comments?  Well, then, "thanks to Monty AND Yid."

Geez.

219 The Saudis are pissed because the'Bamster is too radical Islam, the Germans are pissed because the 'Bamster is too Gestapo, and what's next? The Brits pissed because we're too homo or the Chinese pissed because we're too commie?

220 What I'm wondering is, what country hasn't the SCOAMF pissed off? Add in Britain and Canada to the list. *** Yes. He just.couldn't.wait. to offend Britain.

221 the obamacare rollout failure is not a bug its a feature

they will use this to say we tried and it doesnt work its too hard to coordinate all this stuff between the private sector and the government so the government is just going to do it all now

just sit back and watch this is all theater its all contrived

Posted by: sound awake at October 23, 2013 03:01 PM (pk/NG)

 

 

 

Absolutely!  And  Rubio, McCain, Graham, Boehner, et all will be marching along in lockstep.

222 Really? The damn "and" sign doesn't show in comments? Well, then, "thanks to Monty AND Yid."

Geez.

Posted by: Jazz at October 23, 2013 03:05 PM (roO4n)

Ampersands are only available to Platinum Level members.

223 All your ampersands are belong to us.

224 New one.

225 &&&&&&&

226

unless ( $Applicant == 'Democrat')
       $set_IRS_audit_flag = 1;


    

227 i've been blessed with & capability

228 "Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 23, 2013 03:02 PM " I wish we could. Unfortunately, my husband has an auto immune disease so we're forced to buy insurance of some sort. Our only alternative is to do Samaritan Ministries. That might be an issue because we're heathens who don't ever go to church... What's funny is that we're just the people who Obama DOESN'T want on his plan. *laughs maniacally* *sobs*

229 Ampersands are only available to Platinum Level members. &&& Joe Biden pleasure face. &&&

230 Jazz,,   Good write-up.  Highly recommend, though about halfway through I started thinking I might need a drink.. heh.  If I didn't have to get outside and paint the house, I might have.  I joke, but thanks for a good extrapolation on the hidden complexity of corralling all those databases.  In fact, how in the hell did they think they could even do that in 3 years, much less 6 months?   Shit on this will leak out.  Probably some are trying to leak shit but MSM agents are not biting..  my guess.

231

219 What I'm wondering is, what country hasn't the SCOAMF pissed off?

Indonesia?

232 The damn "and" sign doesn't show in comments?

Ampersands are for closers.

233 Ampersands are only available to Platinum Level members. And cardboard level members with sticky fingers. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

234

Add in Britain and Canada to the list.

 

 

Posted by: EC at October 23, 2013 03:04 PM (GQ8sn)

 

 

And a Grenade that went through Fast and Furious, was just found in Mexico, at the site of the triple homicide by Cartel members..

 

Mexico?.... check...

235 You forgot on that list -

Honduras
Colombia
Republic of China

236

BCBS Choice Silver PPO 003 TX for myself and 4 teens:

 

(all amounts in network)

 

Indiv Deduct  $6,000

 

Family Deduct  $12,700

 

Coinsurance  $0

 

Out of Pocket Max  (Indiv)  $6,000    (Fam = Not Available)

 

Primary Care / Specialist Office Visit  $0  CoPay

 

In Patient Hosp Services  $250 CoPay  (I guess that's each time one steps through the doorway)

 

ER Services  $500 CoPay

 

Labs/X-Ray/Diagnostics  $0 CoPay

 

Generic Rx  $0 CoPay

 

 Preferred Brand Name Rx  $50 CoPay

 

Non Preferred Brand Name Rx  $100 CoPay

 

Specialty Drugs Rx  $150 CoPay

 

Full Premium  $1,060

 

Subsidy  $565   (Thanks, US Taxpayers!)

 

My Monthly Cost  $495

 

 

My God!  It's full of stupid.  The maths will never ever ever never ever work.

237 You know what IBM's standard productivity expectation used to be for COBOL/BAL programmers?

~20 lines of fully documented tested code/day by the time a product shipped.

That was on average.  Rockstars would beat that by 10x or more.  The slugs might be lucky to crank out 10 lines that worked.

238 &&&&&

239 Ve haff vays to listen to you talk.

240 In order for this undertaking to be successful we must proactively repurpose efficient leadership skills, objectively innovate magnetic intellectual capital, and professionally re-engineer customized innovation. Emphasis on rapidiously strategizing leading-edge process improvements with a close eye on collaboratively synthesizing 'go forward' content.

241

Whatever you do, don't let anyone from "our side" help out in fixing this CF - we want it gone, we didn't vote for it, let their side own it completely.

 

Right-wing programmers who work on this are the equivalent of people digging their own graves right before the people making them dig put a bullet in the back of their head.

 

Obama owns this - it's his signature piece of legislation; his legacy.

 

Like everything else he touches, it's turning to shit.

242 221 The Saudis are pissed because the'Bamster is too radical Islam, the Germans are pissed because the 'Bamster is too Gestapo, and what's next? The Brits pissed because we're too homo or the Chinese pissed because we're too commie?

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 23, 2013 03:05 PM (m6P+7)

 

 

 

To me, it was very telling that al-obama was oh so hot for him some Mo-Bros in Egypt, al-qaeda in Syria, etc., but totally refused to support the green revolution in Iran  in any way.  Seriously, what does that say?  "The most beautiful sound he ever heard was the muslim call to prayer".

243 Related: do not buy expensive guns for defensive carry. Most likely, you will never get it back from the cops. Has Zimmerman gotten his back?

I don't buy expensive guns for concealed carry simply because mine tend to get all banged up.  Or in the case of my Kel Tec, accidentally spilling salt on it with predictable results.

I'd be pissed if I scratched up an $800 H&K.  A $370 Kahr or $230 Kel Tec- not so much.

244 And COBOL programmers are/were loathe to code themselves obsolete.

Have fun dickheads!

245

230 "Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 23, 2013 03:02 PM "

I wish we could. Unfortunately, my husband has an auto immune disease so we're forced to buy insurance of some sort. Our only alternative is to do Samaritan Ministries. That might be an issue because we're heathens who don't ever go to church...

What's funny is that we're just the people who Obama DOESN'T want on his plan. *laughs maniacally* *sobs*

------

Lauren, I am sorry for your situation. May I ask how much does his condition cost per year to treat?

246 Our only alternative is to do Samaritan Ministries. That might be an issue because we're heathens who don't ever go to church...

----------------



I don't think the Samaritan did either, Lauren.


Just sayin'.



Praying for you and your family.  I have an auto immune disease myself.  So I know how it is.  {{{ hugs }}}

247

For me   here in NH -- 34 year old non-smoker -- the cheapest bronze plan I can get is   this one:

 

Premium: 215.40/month (153.89 with a subsidy)

Deductible (Individual) $5,500

Deductible (Family) $11,000

Coinsurance $0

Out of Pocket Maximum (Individual) $6,350

Out of Pocket Maximum (Family) $12,700

248 I'd be pissed if I scratched up an $800 $1000 HK.


Fixed.

249 So instead of the "Big Dig" we can call it the "Big Gig"  (or maybe Big Byte)?

250 If you can't log on to the website, try calling the Kelp Line.

251 we need an institutional memory czar

252 I'm not sure I can sit still for this maligning of the venerable mainframe, or Enterprise Server as the dinosaur prefers to be called now. At least since OS/390, and certainly in the z/OS system, the mainframe does everything the toy boxes do, and better.

253 Ref 251... I still like 404care.gov

254 "May I ask how much does his condition cost per year to treat?" It varies based on what meds he's put on. Right now meds alone are about $500 (without insurance, but we pay more like $200) and he has a specialist visit and blood draws every other month. That would be doable, but if he moves onto Humira or Embrel, then the monthly med cost would sky rocket to about $1800/month, and that's a very likely scenario because right now his condition isn't well controlled. Both those drugs have savings programs, but the catch is that you have to have insurance to qualify for them, so if you're uninsured you're just on the hook for the full amount unless you can beg it from their charity programs which aren't all that reliable because funding fluctuates.

255 the main flaw in YOUR theory is that he got elected president twice in a center right country Posted by: sound awake at October 23, 2013 03:01 PM (pk/NG) He got elected because the people who run the News and Entertainment industries are Liberal Democrat Propaganda Agents who covered up his stupid shit, and viciously attacked his opponents. No. Obama is fucking idiot and so are his ideas, and so are most of the people who voted for him. That small percentage of non-idiots in the middle who were persuaded to vote for him were fed bad data fed to them by Democrat Propaganda agents pretending to be entertainers and journalists. MEDIA Sabotage of the elections is HOW this IDIOT got elected, but never forget, he is STILL an idiot.

256 Thanks both for the kind words and for taking the time to read, Yip - and I'm sorry I got your name wrong above.

FU, AMPERSAND!!!

257

The issues with the Obomacare system are only a visable aspect of the challanges in working with Federal IT programs.  I have been involved, to a greater or lesser degree with a few and the Obomacare is NOT the worst.  It has all the earmarks of bad, but if you wan to see real institutional anarchy and failing to see reality look at the DFAC's push to replace the military HR and Payroll sytems with SAP.  This has been going on for about 20 years with still no closure, to the best of my knowledge.  I do not want to think how much money has gone down that rathole.  Selecting the product first is always a bit of a challange

However, the Obomacare project does have the earmarks of the classis 'it will not be allowed to fail' project, which will just suck more and more resource.  I am likely kidding myselft to think that someone in 'managment' will step back and look at other options.  Given that this is LAW - yikes- I am not sure there are any other options. 

Al

258 I know how to fix it!

First, pick it up by the clean end...

259 I vaguely remember cutting cobol classess in high school circa 1986.

260 >>>What I'm wondering is, what country hasn't the SCOAMF pissed off?

**


We're just happy to be right-side up.

261 249

NH plans are actually close to real plans, minus the deductible. I think we're one of the only two states that have plans in the exchange that aren't insane per that list of average rate increases on NPR.

262

256 "May I ask how much does his condition cost per year to treat?"

It varies based on what meds he's put on. Right now meds alone are about $500 (without insurance, but we pay more like $200) and he has a specialist visit and blood draws every other month. That would be doable, but if he moves onto Humira or Embrel, then the monthly med cost would sky rocket to about $1800/month, and that's a very likely scenario because right now his condition isn't well controlled. 

My basic calculation is that you are experiencing at a minimum $7,800 per year Med costs with possible spikes to $16,800. The policy you quoted as coming nearest to your current policy will cost $13,800/year. In this analysis I assumed you would spend $500/month on medicine instead of $200. So it really boils down to you spending $13.8K to insure $3,000 of cost above your annual premium. I don't know if this is a good deal or not. Notice that I did not calculate co-pays and deductibles. Clearly it would make some sense if your husband's condition will deteriorate, but if this is the worst of it, a self insuring path may make sense. Your real risk is between $7.8 and $16.8 annually provided you have no other med expenses. Should you run two years at $7.8k costs sans Insurance and saved the remaining premium, you would have a self insurance account worth $12k earning interest.

263 @ 262  If you take on anymore rain this month,  that may change.

264 Thanks, Chaos. That's the sort of calculations I've been doing. The risk is that he is almost certainly going to need multiple joint replacements. When? Could be next month, could be 10 years. It just depends on how well he responds to the disease modifying drugs and if we can get him into remission. So many variables, it is hard to plan.

265 I get the sense from this that we are approaching the limits of information technology...that is, as the speed of change and upgrades accelerate, the more information becomes obsolete, not because of content, but because of format. It's the same in my field, Finance. You reach a point where inefficiencies like two people doing the same work in parallel negates any gains in speed.

266 designing, testing and implementing software is hard, doing it for the government must be it's own special kind of hell. 

267

266 Thanks, Chaos. That's the sort of calculations I've been doing. The risk is that he is almost certainly going to need multiple joint replacements. When? Could be next month, could be 10 years. It just depends on how well he responds to the disease modifying drugs and if we can get him into remission. So many variables, it is hard to plan.

-----

In the old days (prior to Obama) Cat plans were actually cheap and were cheaper with higher deductibles. Today you are forced to select from overpriced Cat plans due to Obama legislating mandatory coverage with community risk rating (age and sex). The other element that was distorted was MED IRAs being capped and not allowing savers to actually save their Med money but rather being forced by imminent Fed seizure to spend them all at the end of each year. The Dems have been fighting individual rights relative to Medical Care for some time. Now you know why.

268 Moving data from one format to another is one issue. The other is the ability to get or work with the data off the legacy system. Older hardware just isn't designed to communicate with newer systems.

269 The "Use it or lose it" crap with regards to HSA or Medical IRAs is an abomination and perversion of the law.  I can't believe it hasn't been struck down by the courts.

270 The "Use it or lose it" crap with regards to HSA or Medical IRAs is an abomination and perversion of the law. I can't believe it hasn't been struck down by the courts. Doesn't that only apply to FSA's?

271 I'll tell you now that in my experience, real world data is just messy. A properly designed interface with pulldowns, checkboxes and pre-filled out fields go a long way to mitigating the mess. Once you get to user supplied input...

272 The whole thing is designed to fail, they only have to keep up the illusion that they are trying to "fix" the problem until the critical point where insurance companies no longer have stable systems in place and can be "bailed out" and "re-organized" to where we all go to get health care from the government motors equivalent of an inusrance provider.  Not once has anyone in this administration acted as if the success of the roll-out matters; because it doesn't.  This is playing out exactly like they intended it. 

273 Screw with our social security and us boomers will forget every bit of COBAL  we haven't already forgotten.

274 They would be better off just creating a new database then reconciling for outliers that might be fraudulent against the historical stuff.

275 It's not just that its in COBOL, the data itself is in old DBMS that may no longer have any programmers who use it.  Like SuperNatural or VAX RMS

276 MEDIA Sabotage of the elections is HOW this IDIOT got elected, but never forget, he is STILL an idiot. World English Dictionary idiot (ˈɪdɪət) — n 1. a person with severe mental retardation 2. a foolish or senseless person [C13: from Latin idiōta ignorant person, from Greek idiōtēs private person, one who lacks professional knowledge, ignoramus hes not an idiot any more than bush was an idiot just because they called him that to call him an idiot is to underestimate him he cunning he is diabolical he is not unintelligent he is just a leftist in every sense of the word and a very VERY good con man he even conned oprah winfrey and as much as i disagree with her shes no idiot either hes actually smarter than a lot if not a majority of republicans in washington dc right now he is a master of his game yes the media got him elected so did the entertainment industry and the educational system there was a significant amount of voter fraud as well which probably made the most difference in 2008 and 2012 the obamacare rollout failure is not a bug its a feature this is all theater it is contrived it isnt reality this or anything else should not be viewed by any as an indicator of his intelligence or competence

277 Whatever you do, don't let anyone from "our side" help out in fixing this CF... Count on that happening.

278 john conyers>idiot dick durbin>idiot john mccain>idiot lindsey graham>idiot hank johnson>idiot sheila jackson lee>idiot obama>not an idiot valerie jarrett>not an idiot joe biden>idiot and dumbest man in the senate maybe ever

279 I work in the benefit enrollment industry. Here's an interesting implication from the in depth tech discussions - the file process Healthcare.gov is using (the 834) has been around FOREVER. It's antiquated as hell too. All of the insurers have 834 testing protocols. They were either complicit in approving untested interfaces or they were coerced into accepting them. Remember those phone calls from Sebelius a few months ago? Icing on the cake. Obamacare requires the whole healthcare insurance industry to use only HIPAA approved data feed processes. The only HIPAA approved spec that exists today is the 834.

280 Monty...hate to call you out, but you don't know shit about mainframes.


A mainframe system programmer.

281 42 All of this presents a near perfect opportunity for someone with bad intentions to get involved in the mix and cause all sorts of confusion and damage.

Game on...

Posted by: EC at October 23, 2013 02:15 PM (GQ8sn)

I think the President has done enough already, don't you?

282 June 20, 2005

Bloomberg News

FBI's computer update a case study of errors

By: Laurence Arnold

'They made all the classic mistakes,' UC-Irvine prof says

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's three-year, $170 million effort to modernize its computer system has become a case study in all that can go wrong. The bureau's second attempt will test whether it learned from experience.

In one college classroom, the failed bid by the bureau and its contractor, Science Applications International Corp., to make millions of investigation files accessible in the bureau's computer system is presented as an example of a "spectacular" failure of an information-technology project.

"They made all the classic mistakes," said Susan Elliott Sim, an assistant professor at the Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Sciences, part of the University of California at Irvine.

Of the $170 million the FBI spent on the project it abandoned in April, about $105 million was lost on services and equipment that can't be reused, FBI Director Robert Mueller told a Senate appropriations subcommittee in February. Last month, he told the same subcommittee that the bureau would avoid repeating its mistakes in its next effort, dubbed Sentinel.

'Money down the drain'

"Our effort to enhance our information technology during the past several years has provided us with much-improved understanding of program management, as well as technical expertise," Mueller said.

Mueller declined to discuss a price estimate for Sentinel.

Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said lawmakers want to make sure "this is not money down the drain like the last time."

....

http://tinyurl.com/n2266vu

283 When do we blame "wreckers" for derailing The Lightworker's Glorious Three-Year Plan?

284 There is a technical term for this: FUBAR (F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition) Remember the first rule of computing: GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) And the second: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)