1 1st?

2 First? No way. What time is it again?

3 That method doesn't allow for graft though.  And giving money to the "navigators," i.e. Democrat operatives to get voters to the polls.

4 Nope. Second. Too slow.

5 First moron commenting from a car wash. $2200/yr is over 400 car washes. Just sayin.

6

How dare you advocate for socialized medicine and free cars?

 

7 I bet the $2200 doesn't allow for enough contraception, either.

8 Canadians pay less than half that per-person for their lame CannuckCare coverage.

Yeah, but they don't have 116 new federal agencies, half of which discriminate against providers AND patients by race and gender. O_o  That shit adds up.

9 Do they teach math in the re-education camps? I'm guessing math isn't part of the curriculum.

10 Are you advocating this??!?

11 ~$2,200/yr/person

A shiny new AR-15 and a lot of range time....

12 So what your saying is you want Socialist health care performed by Marxist doctors with Nazi medical devices?!?!

13
Its the medical equivalent of cash for clunkers.

14 9:  Math is racist.   You'll learn that 2+2=3 or 5, or 7, whatever your betters in the elite leaders cadre say it equals at that instant. 

15 Can I haz twinty too hundred a year and mine Obama fone?

16 For $2200 the government could give each man, woman and child 7 hospital toothbrushes!

17 So I'm guessing that the Affordable Handgun Act really could be funded without too much strain on the economy.

I mean, here we are, looking at every American that has lived past the age of eligibility for a fourth trimester abortion, and it's less then 3K a year.

Now, if we look at helping those who really can't afford to own a handgun. I think the numbers would be far less, and the total cost to taxpayers would also drop.

18 The only people this line of reason and logic and math will potentially be interesting to are those who contribute tax dollars rather than consume them, and that ratio of contributors to consumers is headed in an unsustainable direction.

19

Do they teach math in the re-education camps? I'm guessing math isn't part of the curriculum.

 

The only math taught would be subtraction.

20 Right. Re-education is the key word. I need to learn socialist math, not like, you know, real math.

21
$2200 per person per year?  You wish. Cost estimates from the WaPo a couple of days ago:

The federal government spent an average of $4,362 on each non-disabled adult on Medicaid in 2011, the most recent year for which data are available.

By contrast, the Congressional Budget Office projects that the average government subsidy in the exchange marketplace will hover around $5,500.

22
so there is a top of page headline at drudge about a dem advocating for a law to force doctors to treat medicaid etc patients.

that's right, a dem legislator calling for slavery.



ps - I don't want to be treated by someone who doesn't want to be treating me, somehow I don't think I will get quality care.

23 Is stimulus money now baked into the fed budget due to the continuing resolutions?

24 $2200 additional per year. Someone must be getting $4400, because I'm just paying more.

25 Is stimulus money now baked into the fed budget due to the continuing resolutions?

Yea, its been included each year since its inception. It's why Obama has ballooned the debt so fast.

26 So the Obamacare architect is at least admitting now that the whole point was to eliminate the individual insurance markets.

27 You say you're not advocating socialist policies then quote some Rooskie at the end as a dog whistle to your commie buddies. Pinko!

28 23 Is stimulus money now baked into the fed budget due to the continuing resolutions?

Posted by: Johnd01 at November 03, 2013 12:50 PM (v5Bv+)

It's why Harry Reid hasn't worried about a budget, they've got the extra $700 Billion in graft, why pass a budget which would massively cut spending

29 Basically the debt-driven stimulus spending has largely gone to individual payments and proxies for individual payments and crony business payments to disguise the fact that we're in a depression. Everyone is afraid of what would happen if it stopped, thus the CRs keep being passed.

30 I would endorse this type of insurance. Everyone gets $180/mo from the govt that must be used to buy PRIVATE insurance which is used at PRIVATE health care providers/clinic/hospitals. Anything above $180/mo is up to you. If you want the $500/mo version of insurance, you pay the rest.

31

Is stimulus money now baked into the fed budget due to the continuing resolutions?

 

Yup. And all these CR's are in  violation   of   the Cliton-era law that requires yearly budgets.

 

Go figure. And TFG yesterday urged the unreasonable   Republicans to drop their "manufactured crises" and "self-inflicted wounds" to get   together with the wholesome, Mom-and-apple-pie Dimocrats to pass a budget.

 

If I was Boehner, I'd submit one that was balanced  and eliminated whatever departments  needed to  balance it and   go home.  But that's just me.

32 Goldman Sachs is enjoying it.

33 Do they teach math in the re-education camps? I'm guessing math isn't part of the curriculum.
The only math taught would be subtraction.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 03, 2013 12:49 PM (0HooB)
Also division.

34

Guy Mohawk, that insane suggestion re compelling medical service is just logical reductio ad absurdum of all this unconstitutional, ridiculous, unworkable and demonstrably disastrous shit that's now widespread in the US.

 

But to focus on Purp's central illustration. 

 

To organize one's thoughts on this entire question of medical costs and insurance, I think everyone needs to keep the central facts in mind:

 

1)  costs of medical care are, in general, vastly greater than they need to be due to the separation of consumers and prices, i.e. there is very little price discipline in the field (what is provided by insurers acting as aggregators who negotiate prices is inferior to what a normal market with millions of negotiators would achieve, as illustrated by cost curve comparisons between non-insured areas like cosmetic elective procedures/most veterinary care and "normal" insured mainstread medical costs)

 

2)  the federal tax code since WWII has distorted things by subsidizing employer-provided care - just one more thing that, everything being equal, will increase final costs by impeding price discovery achieved by millions of free agents acting rationally

 

3)  the mostly state-level mangling of insurance through mandates etc. essentially making it a frankenstein of some insurance mingled with cost-shifting and subsidies (welfare for others), as well as the limitations on cross-border competition, has taken the already-flawed model of third-party payer (you show your insurance card to the receptionist and get your portion of the bill later) and boosted all its deleterious effects significantly

 

4)  the medical portion of the liability/shake-down industry (that's what it is) boosts all costs almost enitrely without benefit; the "benefits" of safety and accountability in medicine derived from the current shake-down industry are all achievable through intelligent regulation (yes, Martha, there ARE places where regulation can play a positive role), whose down-sides are real but a fraction of the economic impact of the ridiculous system that has evolved, which inserts hidden liability taxes at every stage of "defensive medicine"

 

So O-care basically takes a system almost entirely distorted by government interference in what otherwise would resemble any other marketplace and amps up the pathologies many-fold.

 

And, so .... the "alternative" to O-care is stunningly clear.  Major moves to get govt. interference out of the way, cut off the rent-seeking parasites in the liability industry, and re-connecting consumers, producers, and prices (imagine car repair or house remodeling jobs or any other service market where third-payers separated you from the service provider).

 

Alas, this probably requires a level of intelligence and responsibility that will elude today's stunning dumbed-down and irresponsible populace and elites.

 

35 So Purp, if I read this right, you are advocating for socialized medicine and cars for all immigrants, legal or not?

36 More Fun with Math - What is the Human Costs of 'Stimulus Spending'

GIVEN: Stimulus Spending = $700 Billion / Year

ASSUMPTIONS:
$10 / hour, 40 hours / week, 50 weeks / year, 50 years / working life.

Most of the units cancel out giving us
$1,000,000 / working life.

$700 Billion / Year divided by $1,000,000 / working life shows us that
'Stimulus Spending' is costing us 700,000 working lives / year

37 I was going to point out that direct payments don't allow for the skim but I see it was mentioned by #3. Morons, cutting straight to the bone.

38

12 So what your saying is you want Socialist health care performed by Marxist doctors with Nazi medical devices?!?!

 

In the back seat of the new Gremlin.

39 One of the unintended consequences I see really cratering any of this garbage is that doctors who were willing to work with Medicaid on a charity basis are now going to have punitive government boondoggles.  My area has (had?)excellent charity care willing to work with Medicaid but I really see most of that drying up.  There is no way that I can thank the doctors who did the surgery on one of my kids eye that would not correct with glasses and exercises, but their kindness and charity given freely is something I could never repay.  My children were on Medicaid for six years (deadbeat dad).

40 Hi Purp, we Canadians do pay a direct medical premium to the government --as shown in the page you linked to -- but in addition to that, our governments pour billions into the system. So the full cost of our health care is somewhat hidden from the consumer. The BC provincial government spends 42% of tax revenues on health care and we are on an unsustainable path as the baby boomers grow old. Our medical and pension costs are growing faster than the economy. Nobody wants to know, of course.

41 Why is Purp advocating socialized medicine and socialized transportation?

I thought he was a conservative?

42 If you don't like your socialized medicine, you get to keep it anyway.

43 You must understand that the entirety of the federal government is a money racket. And we the makers are the marks.

44 KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

45


We have nothing to fear with Barack Obama in the White House

46 Love the Drudge story about requiring doctors to take Medicare and Medicaid at a loss. There is no famous failure of socialism progtards will not gladly duplicate with hilariously fatal results. History, how does it.work?

47 New hash? Odd. Still here.

48 $180 a month? My birth control costs like $180 a DAY, buddy! What am I supposed to do, pay for it myself?!

49 http://twitchy.com/2013/11/02/we-dont-have-to-show-you-any-stinkin-famousobamamoviequotes/ These are pretty funny - in the Alinsky ridicule department.

50 So a Fed appeals court is suggesting that the Citizens United ruling may also mean a religious exemption from the employer mandate.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/ fed-appeal-panel-says-citizens-united-might-end-obamacares-hhs-mandate/ article/2538368 [space before "fed" and "article"]

Pleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease...

If this were to happen the left would absolutely lose its shit.  Seriously.  We're talking MSNBC level 12 crazy.

51 A little back of the envelope math tells me Tony Romo is the lowest paid quarterback per sack.  Just an FYI.

52 Purp,.

Someguy's presence on another thread reminded me that he was banned by ace years ago.

Can you take care of him? He adds nothing to this site but ceaseless complaining.

53

Hahaha there once was a poser here who was identified by the hive as a "troll" (natch) because he kept insisting on the innocence of Amanda Knox.  Peals of outrage burst forth from all right-minded citizens about his trolly trollishness and calls for banning filled the air from all these staunch defenders of freedom and the first amendment.

According to Purp in the sidebar, looks like he was RIGHT

People go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one

54 >>48 $180 a month? My birth control costs like $180 a DAY, buddy! What am I supposed to do, pay for it myself?! Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 03, 2013 01:41 PM (1WdJ6) No, have your Johns .... er boyfriends pay for it.

55
What?  $2200 each year buys a lot of MD 20-20, ganja, and udder chit.  What wit the church food, panhandlin', and strokin' the 7-11 for the stuff I be needin', life be good.  It be velly good 'ceptin for the suckers what be workin' and payin' the taxes what supports us.

56 By all means you should preemptively ban people lest they eventually offend. Not for anything they're doing; that would be too simple.

57 Hahaha there once was a poser here who was identified by the hive as a "troll" (natch) because he kept insisting on the innocence of Amanda Knox. Peals of outrage burst forth from all right-minded citizens about his trolly trollishness and calls for banning filled the air from all these staunch defenders of freedom and the first amendment.
According to Purp in the sidebar, looks like he was RIGHT
People go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one

Posted by: DAve at November 03, 2013 01:55 PM (b7yum)

 

He kept on insisting on her guilt.  Not her innocence. 

58 DAve, if that's a reference to someguy, he was already banned by ace himself.

He slunk back in a few months back.

59 What ever happened to the billion dollars california was given to market obamacare? They are straight up picking our pockets!

60 Consequences bitches. Bill Fullner has reached his breaking point. It started with the letter from his health-insurance company informing him it was canceling his plan and offering him a new one that’s nearly twice as expensive. Then the 60-year-old retiree from Mount Vernon heard about more people like himself with canceled plans and soaring premiums. Finally, he spent hours on the phone and computer trying — and failing — to find a new option that he likes. “This whole experience has converted a lifelong Democrat into a foot soldier for the Republican Party,” Fullner said.

61 Yeah, DAve, pretty sure you are remembering that wrong. Everybody's known she was innocent for years.

62 I look at it this way. 310 million people in the US. 634 million wasted on the BS OCare site.
Common sense. Give every American 2 million bucks. Require it be put in a health care savings account to pay for premiums. Make it like a Dynastic trust.  What doesn't get spent on health premiums and care goes to the kin...Simplistically speaking... it could lower the costs because all Americans would then have coverage. More doctors would happily train because they are beholden to no one and voila, job creation and more competition!! By law, that money will be required to be used for health care as an allocation of taxpayer dollars. You fraudulently spend it and get caught...go directly to jail and make the family members accountable for payback. No loopholes. A simple thing maybe five pages long.
And what could we have done with the 3.7 billion we were bilked out of through fraud EIC? Oh, the possibilities....fucking government waste.

63 I'm asking if we're getting good value for it.

Graft, rent seeking, self dealing and keeping all those 401Ks fat for harvest.  We don't see a problem.

64 from gateway pundit, relative to Purp becoming a socialist (hope the spacing doesn;t get messed up): 

    BILL MAHER, HOST: IÂ’m just saying the Democrats have moved to the middle.

    CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ (D-FLORIDA): We have.

    MAHER: Unfortunately, the other people have moved way over there. So now the middle isnÂ’t the middle anymore.

    ROB REINER: Obama right now, where Obama is is right around where Reagan was, right around where Nixon was. There, heÂ’s no more left than those, those, those Republicans.

    MAHER: Hardly a socialist. HeÂ’s barely, barely a liberal.

    REINER: No, as Bob Dole said, he could not getÂ…

    MAHER: Right.

    REINER: Â…anywhere in this Republican Party. And so ObamaÂ’s right around where Bob Dole is. TheyÂ’re very similar, you know? ThereÂ’s not much of a difference there.

    MAHER: Whenever they say, “Oh, heÂ’s the most radical president ever,”

    REINER: No, no, no, no.

    MAHER: Â…right, because theyÂ’re such experts on history. What they mean is, “HeÂ’s black.” ThatÂ’s whatÂ’s the most radical thing about him.

65 Finally, he spent hours on the phone and computer trying — and failing — to find a new option that he likes. Whoever said ANYthing about a plan that you like? Where'd you get that idea?

66 As a potential recipient of some of those "health care provider" funds, I'm sure that the payout will be way less than CanuckCare doctors receive. We will soon have a doctor shortage far in excess of anything Ezekiel Emmanuel  ever wet-dreamed of. Prick.

67

Hell half the people here have been banned at one time or another.  If he "slunk back in" it was allowed or maybe you feel it's your responsibilty to exercise the blog's due diligence???

61 I believe I am very correct about this

68 61 I believe I am very correct about this

Posted by: Prisoner of your own mind at November 03, 2013 02:34 PM (b7yum)

 

You are very incorrect about this.  Tom Sawyer was obsessed with her being guilty.  Going on and on about how ace's posts about her being innocent was wrong. 

69 yup, buzzion is right

70 67
Hell half the people here have been banned at one time or another.

*****

Not even close to being true. It's only recently that ace has given people timeouts. It used to be that a ban was forever. And you had to be a colossal cocksucker, like someguy, to receive one.

I remember exactly what he got banned for--marching in here and calling co-blogger, Dave in Texas, a stupid motherfucker because he didn't care for one of his posts.

He has a history of being aggressively assholish. So, yeah, I'm gonna make sure he gets fucking bounced.

71 61 I believe I am very correct about this
Posted by: Prisoner of your own mind at November 03, 2013 02:34 PM (b7yum)

You are very incorrect about this. Tom Sawyer was obsessed with her being guilty. Going on and on about how ace's posts about her being innocent was wrong.

Posted by: buzzion at November 03, 2013 02:36 PM (LI48c)

69 yup, buzzion is right

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 03, 2013 02:37 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

See today's sidebar about confirmation that knife had nothing to do with anything and the circus was a nasty pointless show trial.

72 First moron commenting from a car wash. $2200/yr is over 400 car washes. Just sayin. Posted by: Johnd01
--------------

I may have to call for a ruling on this.
Can one be a moron, and drive a clean car too?
Mine only gets washed when it rains, so I need some clarification.

73 Screw Amanda Knox, not a bad lay from the looks. Obamacare is screwing you now, and for the forseeable future until it gets ripped to shreds by a majority of angry Americans. "All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple." -- Mikhail Kalashnikov You can bet your ass that they'll be using his simple tool to do it to. Goverment never willingly surrenders power, ever.

74 lil' DAve fucks up again.

75 Tom Sawyer was obsessed with her 'guilt' and would ignore my questions about the Rudy guy who did it and was convicted for it. That case was about hating America and Knox was a pinata.

76 $700 billion can buy a lot of bacon. Not enough, but a lot.

77 MAHER: …right, because they’re such experts on history. What they mean is, “He’s black.” That’s what’s the most radical thing about him.
Posted by: mallfly
--------------------

And yet..., and yet..., it is *always* the Left/Progressives who point that out. Projection/Self-loathing on steroids.

78 re 72: he said "at the car wash", not "getting the car washed".  
Maybe he's one of those people fascinated by the sight and sound of really big brushes.

79 $700 billion can buy a lot of bacon.

Not enough, but a lot. Posted by: eman
---------------

That which is not useful is not bacon.
That which is useful is bacon.

80 According to Purp in the sidebar, looks like he was RIGHT
People go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one

Posted by: DAve at November 03, 2013 01:55 PM (b7yum)

I was here then, too. Tom Sawyer was annoying as hell because he was obsessed with the Amanda Knox case, and dragged it into every discussion. It was an idee fixe with him. It didn't matter whether he was right or wrong about it; it was that he was like a broken record, constantly playing the same few bars. Little Tommy One-Note.

81 he said "at the car wash", not "getting the car washed".
Maybe he's one of those people fascinated by the sight and sound of really big brushes.
Posted by: mallfly
-----------------

An excellent point!
That  would most certainly qualify as a certified moron activity.
Also, may not be a bad spot to locate hobo's.

82 77 MAHER: …right, because they’re such experts on history. What they mean is, “He’s black.” That’s what’s the most radical thing about him. Posted by: mallfly -------------------- And yet..., and yet..., it is *always* the Left/Progressives who point that out. Projection/Self-loathing on steroids. Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 03, 2013 02:49 PM (aDwsi) If the next Black person running for President isn't a street-hustling retard with delusions of grandeur, I could easily vote for him or her.

83

Per Drudge, the Democrats are starting their push to force all doctors to treat Medicare/Medicaid patients. 

 

"All is proceeding as I have foreseen." -- F. Hayek

 

84 anybody here want to discuss the Amanda Knox case....i think she's guilty as hell. if it's the same people as last night on here, i apologize, but i assuming some new folk are here and some might be interested in talking Knox. thanks. Posted by: Tom Sawyer at April 07, 2013 10:17 AM (7zSvv)

85 Did I say Ouch? Because I meant to say Ouch.

86 The crazy thing is: For the first time in my adult life, I'm actually sort of proud of my lame CanuckCare coverage.

No deductible (for most things), no co-pay (for most things), no limits (except finding the damn services in the first place), no restriction on what doctor I can see or what hospital I can use... and all this for well under $100/month (plus a honkin' whack of my income tax, of course -- but even that isn't so bad since the "conservative" government came to power).

What's happening to what I always thought was the best health care system in the world is just shocking... and really disheartening... Sorry folks...

87 why not give the $700B to GS bankers, union thugs, and donors ... form a leftist plutocrat regime, and have the proles finance their own enslavement?

That seems most efficient, unless you're assuming the intent of the Democrats is actually to make life better for the little people, like they did in Detroit?

88 Per Drudge, the Democrats are starting their push to force all doctors to treat Medicare/Medicaid patients.

"All is proceeding as I have foreseen." -- F. Hayek

Posted by: OCBill at November 03, 2013 02:53 PM (VCCXE)

Come on guys, you totes KNEW that this was coming.  The kicker will be that any doctor that cannot prove to the IRS that is treating enough Medicare and Medicaid patients at a loss will have his drug prescription writing privileges revokes by the DEA, stat.

89 Obamacare was not intended to work. It was poorly planned from start to finish, and that was the intent. Now the Repubes and the Dumbos will sit in Congress and argue about how to "fix it" and make it "better." This will ultimately end with all of us being on some single-payer monstrosity that will make going to the DMV seem like a great way to spend an afternoon. I am sure they didn't intend it to be embarrassing, but they certainly didn't intend it to be workable.

90 Even before the ACA, America had an effectively comprehensive social welfare state. For reasons, it was patchwork and hodgepodge and at odds with itself.

If you add up Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid all the other poverty-relief programs, and all the things a Libertarian would call 'middle-class welfare' (tax expenditures, USG backed loans, grants, education aid, etc.) it sums to about 3 Trillion dollars per year. There are just about 300 million Americans. That's 10k per person. Which is just under the poverty line for an individual, and easily over it for any household of 2 or more. It'd be like a Homestead Act for the 21st century.

The second-order arguments a Conservative/Libertarian/Republican makes against the social welfare state are that it's currently organized/implemented  inefficiently (disability/UI pay people to pretend they can't work; at certain near-poverty thresholds slight increases in income are effectively negative after withdrawn aid and increased taxes), and that "Red-state" client groups don't get choice seats at the table of corruption (few republican voters in college or big-city government administration).

A national minimum income (i.e. every citizen who asks gets 10k per year no questions asked) would cost the same as the current system, be equitable and without preference or bias, removing work disincentives eliminates a corrosion to the national morals, it avoids corruption through transparency (no need to filter funds through the press, or crony capitalists, or academia, or state/municipal governments), not require a super-complicated database and network interface (are you a citizen? where do you reside? where would you like the checks deposited?; can all be done on paper forms). By reducing paperwork/compliance/avoidance burdens elsewhere, it'd be a shot in the arm to the national economy.


If an aid recipient has to show up in person, with documents, once a year, to get thier aid, it'll be hard to fraud (especially once the central database gets up and running, a few years after the paper forms are in use) and also a jobs program, you need several million bodies to hand-process 300 million applications each year.

Also, a flat excise on coal/gas/oil/uranium (at the mine/well) could replace the income/payroll/corporate tax, and alleviate compliance/avoidance burdens on the national economy.

91 And yet for all that it sucks, Canuck Care is what you need, backed by the option of your private insurance of choice for those who desire it and can afford it. What you then have is what Australia has. Which is not without its own problems, true, but infinitely better than the monstrous clusterfuck Obama is visiting upon you now.