November 05, 2013

Tom Harkin Admits: "Better Coverage" In Obamacare is a Redistributive Tax
— Ace

He said this about 20 minutes ago, in the Health Care hearing.

He began by noting people's objections to paying for maternity care, despite being 60 years old. He first claimed to find some validity in that objection. But then added, "But then I got to thinking about it."

He analogized the forced payment for health care you don't need to Property Taxes. He said something like, "Well my wife and I aren't having more kids, and our kids are all grown up. So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?"

He added, in a Stage Whisper, that we are living in a "Society," which to him constitutes some kind of argument about our responsibility to pay for others' needs.

Now, Obama and the rest of the Democrats are claiming, falsely, that people are "getting better coverage," which is their answer to why people are being forced to pay double or triple what they used to pay.

The suggestion is that this "better coverage" benefits them personally -- that they themselves are reaping the benefits from this alleged "better coverage."

But Tom Harkin just justified the skyrocketing premium rates honestly -- but too honestly, in a way that exposes the fiction of Obama's claims.

The maternity care costs imposed on 60 year olds does not benefit those 60 year olds. It is not "better coverage" for them. What it is, of course, is a forced subsidy towards 28 year old women, taking from one group to redistribute wealth (in the form of subsidized health costs) to someone else. The 60 year old, who has no need of maternity care, pays for it, so that the 28 year old woman, who does need it, can pay less.

In the case of a property tax -- or any tax -- we understand that that money is being taken from taxpayers to pay for general government spending, which may or may not (and probably will not) benefit the taxpayer himself.

But Obamacare's "better coverage" is explicitly not supposed to be tax on the healthy for the benefit of the unhealthy, or on the infertile for the benefit of the fertile. He keeps selling this "better coverage" not as a hidden tax, but as a boon that personally benefits the recipient.

Tom Harken, accidentally, just exposed this as lie.

Obama swore up and down he wasn't taxing people in order to pay for his boondoggle. Tom Harkin just admitted that's precisely what he's doing.

Furthermore, Harkin's only justification for the soaring costs of premiums is that it is a tax intended to benefit other people, redistributing money from some to pay for others. It can only be justified as a redistributive tax.


Posted by: Ace at 08:31 AM | Comments (293)
Post contains 472 words, total size 3 kb.

1

He analogized the forced payment for health care you don't need to Property Taxes. He said something like, "Well my wife and I aren't having more kids, and our kids are all grown up. So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?"

 

 

Thank you, Mr. Harkin, for making the conservative point so succinctly.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:33 AM (4df7R)

2
I cant be first???

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 08:33 AM (nELVU)

3 Sorry, fixerupper.  I think I stole that from you.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:34 AM (4df7R)

4 Oh, Mr. Harkin, what makes you fucking think I'm happy about the "property confiscation or pay tax" scheme that produces such stupid dolts that they vote for people like you?

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 05, 2013 08:34 AM (VjL9S)

5 Even better, your improved insurance will cover luxury body bags for when the death panel decides it's too expensive to treat you!

Posted by: Tom Harkin at November 05, 2013 08:34 AM (+H/11)

6

Didn't members of the CBC refer to it as Reparations?

Pretty sure I recall that.

Posted by: garrett at November 05, 2013 08:34 AM (vO9wV)

7 Of course. This was always about redistribution of wealth and also the conversion of a Capitalistic American into a socialistic/communist shit hole. Not that I have an opinion on that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (t3UFN)

8 (Stage Whisper): It's called socialism.

Posted by: t-bird at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (FcR7P)

9 I'd like to support Mr. Harken in his push to eliminate public schools. I too haven't any children, yet the schools eat up 2/3 of my property tax bill.

Posted by: mugiwara at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (hpYnL)

10 Got my letter of health insurance cancellation yesterday. Thanks, Nancy.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (mETGQ)

11 The fact that a Democrat can inadvertently make a better case for the Conservative position than Republicans can......yeah.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (da5Wo)

12
Yeah???  Well whaddid I say???

Posted by: Chief Justice Roberts at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (nELVU)

13 5 Even better, your improved insurance will cover luxury body bags for when the death panel decides it's too expensive to treat you! I would laugh if it wasn't the truth...

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (9+ccr)

14 I cant be first??? No one really cares. Now, onto the article. Ironically enough, Harkin is making a legitimate argument. What he isn't addressing is whether it's legitimate to redistribute income to that extent, or, of course, the complete cataclysmic clusterf*ck that he's talking about.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 05, 2013 08:35 AM (PMGbu)

15 Well both the Dems and many Repubs still refer to social security as social "insurance". This particular style of Orwellian language abuse has been going on nearly a century.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:36 AM (ZPrif)

16 See? SEE?!

Posted by: Chief Justice Roberts at November 05, 2013 08:36 AM (FcR7P)

17 Thank you Mr. Harkin. Property taxes are direct taxes. What is said about those in the Constitution?

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 08:36 AM (ldkXG)

18 So I was right? It really is a tax?

Posted by: Justice Roberts at November 05, 2013 08:36 AM (t3UFN)

19 My wife has her tubes tied so why should my rates go up $170? (just for my part)

Posted by: Vic at November 05, 2013 08:37 AM (zZbNF)

20 ((crickets))

Posted by: "mythical GOP establishment" at November 05, 2013 08:37 AM (5ikDv)

21 Hey Tom, property taxes for schools have a direct effect on the value of the property's resale value regardless of the age of the home owner or the number of children. Transforming is hard.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (oDCMR)

22 I told you people it was a tax.

Posted by: John Roberts at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (bmp0d)

23 Has Obama bragged about all the jobs he's gonna create in the hospice industry yet? So many, in fact, that we need amnesty so you can have an annoyed, illiterate Somali change your bedpan.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (ZPrif)

24

5 Even better, your improved insurance will cover luxury body bags for when the death panel decides it's too expensive to treat you!

 

....OH, but the    luxury   body bags won't be for YOU.   They'll be for that other guy down the street.   Sorry,   did you think we meant you?   Nah, you get to buy your own body bag with whatever pocket change you've got left after we soak you dry to pay for  Manuel/Henrietta/Emily/Chad/Alfonse/etc.  

 

What,   you have a problem   with that?      You have a problem with showing some common decency towards the less fortunate by providing luxury body bags for them when they shuffle off this mortal coil?   You uncaring bastard. 

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (4df7R)

25 My wife has her tubes tied so why should my rates go up $170? (just for my part) Posted by: Vic at November 05, 2013 12:37 PM (zZbNF) Because the 14 year old girl in detroit did not yet, that is why

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (t3UFN)

26 The property tax analogy is bullshit. You can move to a low property area. States give retires "homestead" exemptions. You can't move away from Obama care. Of course, the dumb fuck is even dumber than he admits. People over 65 aren't affected at all by Obama care. They have Medicare, you stupid shit.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 08:38 AM (0FSuD)

27
Question.

Are we still covered when we reside in the FEMA camps???

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 08:39 AM (nELVU)

28 What's next? They are going to admit, hey, we just did all this so we could tell you what to do. And then someone will hold them accountable, right? They couldn't possibly decide, hey, blame Republicans for this.

Posted by: blaster at November 05, 2013 08:39 AM (W6bkf)

29 I don't care what stupid retroactive reasoning these guys are employing now. At the time (when we correctly called B.S.)--her was the trifecta from the left: A. We're going to cover everyone. B. The coverage will be qualitatively better. C. The coverage will cost less. None of those things were true then, they are not true now, and Tom Harkin "thinking about things" is right up there with "demonic possession" on my list of scary things.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 05, 2013 08:39 AM (659DL)

30 Just spreading it around.

Posted by: Barakhenaten I at November 05, 2013 08:39 AM (vO9wV)

31 Have you seen the plans for our new Kentucky dam?

Posted by: MItch McConnell at November 05, 2013 08:39 AM (5ikDv)

32 9 I'd like to support Mr. Harken in his push to eliminate public schools. I too haven't any children, yet the schools eat up 2/3 of my property tax bill.

Posted by: mugiwara at November 05, 2013 12:35 PM (hpYnL)


We passed a 2 cent sales tax to eliminate the school tax to satisfy a court recommendation for uneven funding of school.



As soon as the tax passed our county immediately added a "fee" to the property tax bills that was equal to the school tax.  So we got both.

Posted by: Vic at November 05, 2013 08:40 AM (zZbNF)

33 My Cost Curve bends up and to the left.

Posted by: Obamacare at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (vO9wV)

34 This morning, a friend of mine referred to whingeing about the ChoomCare website as "complaining about the color of the paint on the time bomb."

The actual operation of the scheme, and the financial disasters that are certain to result, are a different matter.

But nothing short of impeachment and a massive public revolt against Choom Boy's "plan" will stop it.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (kaGpp)

35 On the Michelles Mirror blog (link in my nic) a commenter read that the Obamacaid rules stipulate that you are reduced to healthcare located in areas that are in close proximity to where you live-not statewide. Has anybody else heard this?

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (gxtMZ)

36 The really fucked up part is a 28 year old woman isn't forced to buy a policy that covers maternity. Anyone under 30 has the option to buy catastrophic only insurance, that does not cover maternity. So a 58 year old man has to have maternity. But a 28 year old woman has the option to go without. This is the fucked upness of Obamacare.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (QI9SE)

37
..... and then..... we exempted OURSELVES.!!  **snicker**

Posted by: Congress Critters Everywhere at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (nELVU)

38 i want to send a big "fuck you" to chief justice roberts......who is using a racist title to boot.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (8JJ6O)

39 But remember, if you DO have children and you want to be able to channel your property taxes via a voucher...that's bad or something.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (659DL)

40

Tom Harkin  ---  

 

Well , I thought about it and my flights to the Phillipines from Japan of recently repaired aircraft  doesn't really  count as combat missions over Vietnam .   They did though allow for other pilots  to get a combat medal  and that is what is important. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (m2CN7)

41 Some say Harken, others say, correctly, Harkin; maybe just use "lying dickweed".

Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (p748t)

42 Now, Obama and the rest of the Democrats are claiming, falsely, that people are "getting better coverage," which is their answer to why people are being forced to pay double or triple what they used to pay. At some point, you'd expect them to get sick from all of the spinning....

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (pHivF)

43 27 Question. Are we still covered when we reside in the FEMA camps??? Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 12:39 PM (nELVU) Of course, silly one. All those being "re educated" get only the finest medical care we can provide with our dedicated staff. Now clean that toilet again.

Posted by: NORK "reeducation camp" director at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (0FSuD)

44 Are we still covered when we reside in the FEMA camps??? Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 12:39 PM (nELVU) In the camps we will all get to participate in the latest experimental medicine.

Posted by: blaster at November 05, 2013 08:41 AM (W6bkf)

45 DRUDGE REPORT ‏@DRUDGE_REPORT Toronto Mayor: 'Yes I smoked crack'... http://drudge.tw/17Knkad He's seen the videos and admits that it was him. His excuse for why he previously lied and denied smoking crack is that he only smokes crack when gets blackout drunk, so he doesn't actually remember smoking the crack.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (ZPrif)

46 29 I'd also add they explicitly said it was not a tax--not a tax on income, not a tax on anything. It points out the basic perfidy of the Democratic party, and the media and academic institutions that both guide and support it. They respect none but themselves.

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (ldkXG)

47 People over 65 aren't affected at all by Obama care. They have Medicare, you stupid shit. Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 12:38 PM (0FSuD) Not so sure about this. $700 BILLION was cut from Medicare to fund Obamacare. It's going to affect them.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (bCEmE)

48

He analogized the forced payment for health care you don't need to Property Taxes. He said something like, "Well my wife and I aren't having more kids, and our kids are all grown up. So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?"

 

Guess what genius.   You are getting a break from paying property taxes if you are over a certain age. 

Posted by: polynikes at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (m2CN7)

49 The really fucked up part is a 28 year old woman isn't forced to buy a policy that covers maternity. But men do. The fractal clowness of this entire episode is breathtaking.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (659DL)

50

Has Obama bragged about all the jobs he's gonna create in the hospice industry yet?

 

In Soylent  Green , those  euthanasia   clinics were called "Home."

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 08:42 AM (0HooB)

51 "So a 58 year old man has to have maternity. But a 28 year old woman has the option to go without. This is the fucked upness of Obamacare." Haven't you heard? Those folks are children now. And wittle bitty babies don't need maternity care.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 05, 2013 08:43 AM (qFpRI)

52 Oh yeah, I'm stoked to pay for some dumb asshole's birth control who lives in a Dem toilet Society Slum on the other side of the continent.

Posted by: wth at November 05, 2013 08:43 AM (wAQA5)

53 35 On the Michelles Mirror blog (link in my nic) a commenter read that the Obamacaid rules stipulate that you are reduced to healthcare located in areas that are in close proximity to where you live-not statewide. Has anybody else heard this? Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 12:41 PM (gxtMZ) ___________ I don't know about the closeness part, but my kid's doctor who lives just across the state line from me, is not in any PPO plans under Obamacare. Seems like there is no doctor outside of my state available with any O-Care plans I have available. Mind you this doctor is 7 miles from my house. And she's been our doctor since the birth of the kid. No more.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 05, 2013 08:43 AM (QI9SE)

54 And I can hardly wait until next year when the company taxes go up.  They will probably cancel my insurance.  After that I can choose bankruptcy or death.

Posted by: Vic at November 05, 2013 08:43 AM (zZbNF)

55 In Soylent Green , those euthanasia clinics were called "Home."


You are guaranteed 20 mins of nature footage.


Posted by: EC at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (GQ8sn)

56 And, it's a clunky analogy. At least with the school tax there is, in theory, a benefit to society as a whole: An educated populace. Of course, in reality, the school taxes that we all pay has little to do with "education" itself. Just like the increased insurance premiums have little to do with "healthcare". Hey. Maybe it isn't so clunky after all.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (DmNpO)

57

Honest and Heroic Tom:

"While running for his Senate seat in 1984, and again while running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1992, Harkin has faced criticism for claiming that he had flown combat missions over North Vietnam. In a 1979 round table discussion with other Congressional military veterans, Harkin said of his service as a navy pilot: "One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions". These comments were later published in a 1981 book by David Broder. After subsequent inquiries by Barry Goldwater and The Wall Street Journal, Harkin clarified that he had been stationed in Japan and sometimes flew recently repaired aircraft on test missions over Vietnam. His service flying F-4s and F-8s was later, while he was stationed at U.S. Naval Base Guantánamo Bay, Cuba."

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (oDCMR)

58 I thought this was obvious. The whole gross-overcharge-offset-for-some-by-massive-subsidy is, nakedly, wealth redistribution.

Posted by: wooga at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (ffesT)

59 An analogy to what Obamacare really is....It's a law akin to forcing every taxpaying American to go to the store and purchase one of every item on the shelves.  You don't need or want every item in the store, but are being forced into purchasing them anyway so that they can literally be given to someone else that does want them. 

Posted by: Lady in Black at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (XB5Ak)

60 Villains, the whole lot.  I swear, these people are trying to make an anarchist out of me, but I've still got too much sense to be one.

Posted by: Cato at November 05, 2013 08:44 AM (i+Vw2)

61 This is such a colossal cluster*cuk.

Posted by: furious at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (A98Xu)

62 On the Michelles Mirror blog (link in my nic) a commenter read that the Obamacaid rules stipulate that you are reduced to healthcare located in areas that are in close proximity to where you live-not statewide. Has anybody else heard this?

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 12:41 PM (gxtMZ)

 

Medicaid and Medicare both operate on a county-by-county basis (at least that's how it is in NH).   That means if you move    from one county to another    your plan doesn't necessarily follow you,  and you may not find a plan in your new county that is the same as your old county.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (4df7R)

63 Harkin also forgets that you have the option of moving to a smaller house and paying less property tax. Or moving to a county that has lower property taxes. Or renting. With O-Care you're forced to buy insurance simply by virtue of breathing and you have no choice.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (QI9SE)

64 What he isn't addressing is whether it's legitimate to redistribute income to that extent, or, of course, the complete cataclysmic clusterf*ck that he's talking about.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent

The thing is the Right hasn't fought the culture wars smartly enough to interrupt their narrative. Were we to have a vote on whether or not it is ok in the US have 'redistributive' taxation, a significant chunk of the voters would be ok with it.

It's not enough to blame the media; the Right and which ever party is to represent it needs to figure out how to lay the predicate for each of these big picture concepts.

Why is it wrong to have government run redistribution? Why is unchecked immigration bad for everyone? Why is redefining marriage bad?

In each of these areas, not enough work was done to interrupt the Left's drum beat of More, More, More.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (xz0nG)

65 The solution , my friendsh , is to legalize , millions of unemployed foreigners and their accompanying third world diseases and give them full access to America's bounty.



Posted by: Senator John McCain at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (5ikDv)

66 35 On the Michelles Mirror blog (link in my nic) a commenter read that the Obamacaid rules stipulate that you are reduced to healthcare located in areas that are in close proximity to where you live-not statewide. Has anybody else heard this? Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 12:41 PM (gxtMZ) Well, if having to stipulate what COUNTY you live in is any indicated....yeah, maybe.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (bCEmE)

67 In Soylent Green , those euthanasia clinics were called "Restaurants."

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 12:42 PM (0HooB)


FIFY

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 08:45 AM (nELVU)

68 When my daughter was born I took a pile of dead Presidents to the hospital to bail my wife and her out. When my son was born I took a pile of dead Presidents to the hospital to bail my wife and him out. Now I gotta pay for everyone elses kids to be born? All the pain, none of the pleasure, that's socialism for you.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 05, 2013 08:46 AM (U2UQk)

69 Not so sure about this. $700 BILLION was cut from Medicare to fund Obamacare. It's going to affect them. We'll still have Medicare, the only way it will affect us? We're going to fuck the young ones again with inflation to pay for it. That and the death panels. It will work out.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 08:46 AM (0FSuD)

70 An analogy to what Obamacare really is....It's a law akin to forcing every taxpaying American to go to the store and purchase one of every item on the shelves. You don't need or want every item in the store, but are being forced into purchasing them anyway so that they can literally be given to someone else that does want them.

Posted by: Lady in Black at November 05, 2013 12:44 PM (XB5Ak)

 

Or giving them to someone who doesn't want them and doesn't particularly need them, but who the gubmint has decided MUST have them.   See: young, healthy adults who'd chosen to forego insurance.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:46 AM (4df7R)

71 The other problem with the property tax for schools analogy, at least in my state, is that I get to vote on whether those rates are raised. No such luck with O-care, as the Feds decide what we'll pay and what we get for that expenditure.

Posted by: RS at November 05, 2013 08:46 AM (YAGV/)

72

You are guaranteed 20 mins of nature footage.

 

Which also directly answers the question, "How does my ass  taste?"

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 08:46 AM (0HooB)

73 Furthermore, if we live in "Society"--which we do--and if we have some kind of obligation to the *particular* welfare of others (of which no amendment has ever been passed, but which question is a worthy one), then what is the obligation of those currently in Society to those who invited themselves into it, in defiance of Society? If you crash my party, must I not only give you drink and food, but a place to stay for the night, clothes for the morning, and gas for the trip home?

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (ldkXG)

74 i'd like to see a certain male go thru a d&c..it's covered now, right?

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (8JJ6O)

75 An analogy to what Obamacare really is....It's a law akin to forcing every taxpaying American to go to the store and purchase one of every item on the shelves. You don't need or want every item in the store, but are being forced into purchasing them anyway so that they can literally be given to someone else that does want them. **** The morons get anchovies! Like it or not!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (DmNpO)

76 So a 58 year old man has to have maternity. But a 28 year old woman has the option to go without. ---------- Ironically, or not, that same 58 year old will be advised to just take a pill if he/she needs a hip replacement or heart surgery in 20 years time. Even after he/she has paid for other's maternity care for those 20 years.

Posted by: flmom at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (nSjrf)

77 On the Michelles Mirror blog (link in my nic) a commenter read that the Obamacaid rules stipulate that you are reduced to healthcare located in areas that are in close proximity to where you live-not statewide. Has anybody else heard this?

--

I heard this yesterday.  I think it was Dan Bongino (subbing for Chris Plante) who said people would not be able to use healthcare services out of their area or state. 

Posted by: Lady in Black at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (XB5Ak)

78 39 But remember, if you DO have children and you want to be able to channel your property taxes via a voucher...that's bad or something. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 05, 2013 12:41 PM (659DL) Yeah, a property tax break for home schoolers would be nice, too. But no. I'm forced to pay for our crap-tactic (which are genuinely crap-tastic, as I live in a nice area but for whatever reason the local schools here are rated as some of the lowest in the state) local schools in addition to the time, effort, and yes $$$$ I put in to home school my kids. The books and curriculum for home school aren't free. But the county says I have to suck it up and eat a. Dick on my property taxes because I'm one of those creepy folks that doesn't want my children stuck in an indoctrination center all day.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 05, 2013 08:47 AM (qFpRI)

79 like the "free" education you did or didn't get whether you went to public school or not, you'll overpay for it forever.

Posted by: X at November 05, 2013 08:48 AM (KHo8t)

80 The morons get anchovies! Like it or not! Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 05, 2013 12:47 PM (DmNpO) I am good with that. I like anchovies, but they do give me the gout.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 08:49 AM (0FSuD)

81 from an OFA email two or three days ago:

"We're hearing a lot of hot air out of Washington these days about some insurance plans that are changing -- for the better -- because of Obamacare. It can be pretty confusing to follow, and some people on the other side aren't making it any easier by being intentionally misleading.

Let's be clear: What they're talking about is the fact that if insurance companies decide to downgrade or cancel an insurance plan that doesn't include the minimum consumer protections legally required, they must offer you an alternative plan that does include those protections -- like the guarantee that you won't run up against lifetime caps on coverage, you won't have to pay for preventive care, and you can't be denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition."

juts the crap we've come to expect: it's not the law, it's the insurance companies!

and it continues with a quote from King Barky:

"nobody is losing their right to health care coverage. And no insurance company will ever be able to deny you coverage or drop you as a customer altogether."

Oh, how carefully parsed that is! They can't deny you coverage? Even if you can't afford it? And look at that word "altogether" -- an insurance company can't "drop you as a customer altogether" - so they can drop you to some extent but not altogether?


Posted by: Mallfly at November 05, 2013 08:49 AM (bJm7W)

82

23 Has Obama bragged about all the jobs he's gonna create in the hospice industry yet?

 

.....................

 

 

About that, I am a hospice nurse. CMS just pulled "debility" aka old age from their diagnosis that will qualify you for hospice. I expect many other qualifiers  to be pulled as well. Lung cancer? You probably smoked. NO HOSPICE FOR YOU!

Posted by: Molly k. at November 05, 2013 08:49 AM (TvFAZ)

83 After that I can choose bankruptcy or death. ItÂ’s been a few years since I began talking about AAG and reverse mortgages, and since then AAG has helped thousands of American homeowners convert the equity in their homes into money they can use right now.

Posted by: Fred! Thompson [/i] at November 05, 2013 08:50 AM (U2UQk)

84 You are guaranteed 20 mins of nature footage.


Posted by: EC

And Beethoven (not the dog).

Posted by: mrp at November 05, 2013 08:50 AM (HjPtV)

85 The Sanford Police Department is backing off a proposal to ban Neighborhood Watch members from carrying guns, but it still wants volunteers to leave their firearms at home and will make that recommendation at a community meeting Tuesday night, police Chief Cecil Smith said Monday. "We originally came out with a stern, 'You should not,'" Smith said. "We took a second look at it." Smith now recommends that people forgo their guns while they are performing their Neighborhood Watch duties. Smith said he could legally have dictated a ban, but he decided it was better to include people rather than to exclude them.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 05, 2013 08:50 AM (8CWgp)

86 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandating maternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 08:51 AM (oDCMR)

87 And this is just for the solo people insurance.

When the employer mandate kicks in you will hear the screaming from everywhere.

Where the fuck is Allen G with his mantra I miss it so..

Posted by: Everyday Joe at November 05, 2013 08:51 AM (DVC2D)

88 You know, now that health insurance is going to be ridiculously expensive and    deductibles are going to skyrocket, I'll have every reason in the world to give in to my lazy nature and quit getting regular physicals.   I can't afford them anyway, and if they discover a disease I've got no way to pay for treatment.  

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:51 AM (4df7R)

89
So, 28 years of incumbency tends to make one somewhat detached from the concerns of the average citizen.

Who knew?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 05, 2013 08:51 AM (kdS6q)

90 Let's not forget that the feral government will need to dip its beak too Conferences, trip, layers of bureaucracy, union jobs, pay for play

Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 08:52 AM (zOTsN)

91 @85 I think a Super Black Eagle 12 Ga on a sling would certainly be a good show of force while patrolling. That and if any geese get up you could shoot one.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 08:52 AM (0FSuD)

92 NPR was running heavy propaganda today about all those "canceled" plans. Turns out, according to NPR, those are just inferior scam plans that being replaced with *real* insurance. Thanks government radio!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:52 AM (ZPrif)

93 "Smith now recommends that people forgo their guns while they are performing their Neighborhood Watch duties. Smith said he could legally have dictated a ban, but he decided it was better to include people rather than to exclude them." So they want people to patrol their neighborhoods, which could mean putting their own lives in danger if something goes down and they see it or whatnot, but they can't be prepared to defend themselves. Greeeeaaaaat. I see folks rushing to join that program.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 05, 2013 08:53 AM (qFpRI)

94 When the employer mandate kicks in you will hear the screaming from everywhere.

----

Yep..... those letters should be going out about this time next year..... just in time for the election.   And I fully anticipate getting one of those letters.   I feel sorry for one of my coworkers with 11 kids.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 08:53 AM (nELVU)

95

"nobody is losing their right to health care coverage. And no insurance company will ever be able to deny you coverage or drop you as a customer altogether."

 

That reminds me of the Ron White    routine wherein he recounts getting thrown out of a bar whilst  somewhat intoxicated. "I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability."

 

Healthcare is   not a right,   or at least   it wasn't prior to the Reign of Error of King Putt.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 08:53 AM (0HooB)

96

Are we still covered when we reside in the FEMA camps???

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 12:39 PM (nELVU)

No. Our stay in the "mental health clinic" is covered, though.

 

All of us.

Posted by: burmatar at November 05, 2013 08:53 AM (G/XBU)

97 Those Vegas hot tubs aren't gonna heat themselves, plebs

Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 08:53 AM (zOTsN)

98 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandatingmaternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 12:51 PM (oDCMR)

 

And    25%   interest rates on loans    used to be considered loan sharking.   Try telling that to your average credit card company.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:54 AM (4df7R)

99 WSJ is confirming the worse case. The "death spiral". Only the sick and old are buying Obama care and 2/3 of the applications are going to Medicaid, a REALLY inferior product.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 08:55 AM (0FSuD)

100

Here is something to think about...

 

Yes, there is a group of people in the U.S. who don't have health insurance.

 

However, this doesn't mean that everyone in the U.S. hasn't been receiving treatment. 

 

Right now, as it stands, with exactly what we've been paying in health insurance and taxes, every person in the country, whether citizen or illegal, old, young, rich, poor, whatever, has been getting all the treatment they need.

 

A lot of this treatment has been the most expensive imaginable, in the emergency room.

 

So, if we're already paying for everything at current rates, why would costs go up for anyone?  Theoretically, instead of treating the poor in an emergency room we would give them an aspirin at the doctor's office for a 2000% reduction in cost.

 

This should give people who pay for insurance a refund, not an increase.

 

Why is this costing more?

Posted by: jwest at November 05, 2013 08:55 AM (u2a4R)

101 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandatingmaternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud. Also uneaqual treatment/access under the law.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 08:55 AM (pHivF)

102

Yeah, well, you know.  Whatever.   There is absolutely nothing  about    socialism  that is sustainable, tax or no tax.   It will eventually crash.

 

This economy as it is now is already on it's deathbed.  That strange sound we keep hearing?  It's a death-rattle.  

Posted by: Soona at November 05, 2013 08:55 AM (JvRFW)

103 Wait, what? You can be excluded from hospice? I thought the main you "qualified" was by being in the proces of, you know, dying. There are some types of dying that don't qualify for hospice?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:55 AM (ZPrif)

104 The maternity care costs imposed on 60 year olds does not benefit those 60 year olds. It is not "better coverage" for them. What it is, of course, is a forced subsidy towards 28 year old women, taking from one group to redistribute wealth (in the form of subsidized health costs) to someone else. The 60 year old, who has no need of maternity care, pays for it, so that the 28 year old woman, who does need it, can pay less. No, the 28 year old is paying nothing and the 60 year old is paying all of it. In further fuck it news, tell you what, since I have to pay for other people's children, I no longer plan on feeling a second's worth of guilt when student loan forgiveness goes through and everyone else has to pay for my student loans.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (VtjlW)

105 Hey, Harkin is exactly correct, and he's honest. I don't like him, but I respect his honesty.

So, blame the voters. They wanted something for free. They'll be disappointed in Obamacare because it's not what they were told it would be. But they voted for what they THOUGHT it would be -- free health care! Yippee!

To think they'll become conservatives because of their disenchantment with Obamacare is a misread. They lesson, they think, isn't that getting lots of free stuff from the govt (i.e. liberalism) is bad, it's that next time they're gonna make damn sure they get what they were told they'd get.

Bank it. Avg lifespan of a democracy is 200 years. We're there, baby.  

Posted by: Cornfed at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (Hoy9u)

106 Where the fuck is Allen G with his mantra I miss it so.. New job. Busy working so illegals can come out of the shadows.....

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (pHivF)

107 What I really meant is that it is I who was, is, and always shall be FIRST, you damn wingers.

Posted by: barry soetoro at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (5aT64)

108 The Progressives could have made the argument for a redistributive (progressive) tax to provide health insurance to the have nots but they didn't. They could have worked on arguments, models, trials, test cases but they didn't. They could have worked out possible problems but they didn't. They didn't because they are lazy, lying, thieving, con men who want what they want without working for it. The most hilarious (unidentified) comments coming out the Spite House is they were afraid that the Republicans would criticize them and find out what they were doing. Who is afraid that someone, anyone will find out what they are doing? A sneak, a thief, a con, a liar that's who.

Posted by: Lester at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (qTsuK)

109
Why is this costing more?

Posted by: jwest at November 05, 2013 12:55 PM (u2a4R)


-----

I believe you need to direct your inquiry to Joe the Plumber.   He received an answer on that front.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 05, 2013 08:56 AM (nELVU)

110 Well...that sucks. Turns out my chimney doesn't look all that good after all. They said "we're hopeful everything looks great." But then once the camera got up there it was cracked in several places. Stupid clay. Cost to repair: uhhh more than it cost to take down a 25 foot oak tree. That ain't happening.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 08:57 AM (GaqMa)

111 Where the fuck is Allen G with his mantra I miss it so.. Posted by: Everyday Joe at November 05, 2013 12:51 PM (DVC2D) Burn Scatter Salt That? No more of that from AllenG. Apparently it's an incitement/approval for violent action.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 05, 2013 08:57 AM (da5Wo)

112 There are some types of dying that don't qualify for hospice?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:55 PM (ZPrif)

 

If there weren't before, there are now.  

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 08:57 AM (4df7R)

113 No shit, Tommy. Take from the middle class and give to Obama voters, including the Federal bureaucrats. Where have we seen this before?

Posted by: Peregrine Took is blaming someone else for this post at November 05, 2013 08:57 AM (42ZAm)

114 I voted against anything today that meant my local government would be able to spend my property tax tax money on any of their wet dreams.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (t3UFN)

115 JWest think of ACA as Health care voucher program

Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (zOTsN)

116 Cost to repair: uhhh more than it cost to take down a 25 foot oak tree.
That ain't happening.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 12:57 PM (GaqMa)



Slather some plaster over everything and you'll be gold!



Posted by: EC at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (GQ8sn)

117 The maternity care costs imposed on 65 year olds does benefit those 65 year olds. When they are 85, drooling and wearing Depends, the 20 year olds whose mothers had ob/gyn coverage 20 years earlier will be the ones cleaning them up.  Question is do they want to pay for it at 65 and should they be forced to do so?
It used to be easier with a tax free benefit implemented during WWII to get around wage and price controls - company supplied health insurance. From small to large, companies have since provided health insurance and it often included maternity coverage, even for the post-kids employees. Offsetting that, the childbearing age employees benefits cost more to account for the greater likelihood of serious illness befalling the older employees. I don't know if this is more socialist or fascist, but it did work for a long time in what used to be a high trust society with high employment rates.

Posted by: chuckR at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (n1exz)

118 NPR was running heavy propaganda today about all those "canceled" plans. Turns out, according to NPR, those are just inferior scam plans that being replaced with *real* insurance. Who knew heavily regulated Aetna could sneak in scam plans???

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (pHivF)

119 This is, rather than giving poor people food stamps, just doubling or tripling the cost of food to everyone else. You'd go to the grocery story. Load up a cart of groceries, and when you went to pay you'd have to first enter your IRS-verified income. Some would pay $20 for a box of Cheerios. For others it would be free.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (ZPrif)

120 Kinsley's Law: A gaffe has occurred when a politician inadvertently tells the truth.

Posted by: joncelli at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (RD7QR)

121 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 12:57 PM (GaqMa)

Be very careful. Many of these guys are crooks.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 08:58 AM (oJ5Fd)

122 Catch my Obamacare apology tour on your local channel!

Posted by: Almost President Mitt Romney at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (5ikDv)

123 I have an 8 inch flue liner and the cracks are 10 feet up. Plaster ain't happening.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (GaqMa)

124 give in to my lazy nature and quit getting regular physicals. I can't afford them anyway, and if they discover a disease I've got no way to pay for treatment. You and tens of millions others, I'm afraid. Which is why I think self-insurance (aka no insurance) is the wisest choice for many. Even paying the stupid penalty is cheaper then some outlandish monthly amount. Bank the money, pay for regular physicals out of pocket, and pray. Also, do the right things, avoid the wrong things.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat [/i] at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (U2UQk)

125 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandatingmaternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud. *** AND CHARGING FOR IT! This is the thing, they will never ACTUALLY pay out maternity coverage for men or little old ladies, so they are not spreading the costs. They are collecting for something they will never pay out on. I would love to see the money-trail for this debacle.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (DmNpO)

126 Burn Scatter Salt That? No more of that from AllenG. Apparently it's an incitement/approval for violent action. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 05, 2013 12:57 PM (da5Wo) i disagree with the policy...as much as i miss dagny posting here....which is a lot

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (8JJ6O)

127

Oh, it gets even better - Kathy and the Clown Posse have declared that the exchanges aren't a "Federal Health Care" system, so now they are exempt from anti-kickback laws:

 

...but the Obama administration has ruled that neither the federal insurance exchange nor the federal subsidies paid to insurance companies on behalf of low-income people are “federal health care programs.”

The surprise decision, disclosed last week, exempts subsidized health insurance from a law that bans rebates, kickbacks, bribes and certain other financial arrangements in federal health programs, stripping law enforcement of a powerful tool used to fight fraud in other health care programs, like Medicare.

The main purpose of the anti-kickback law, as described by federal courts in scores of Medicare cases, is to protect patients and taxpayers against the undue influence of money on medical decisions...

 

 

 

http://is.gd/4EIvfI

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (PZ6/M)

128 Plaster ain't happening.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 12:59 PM (GaqMa)



Duct tape?


Posted by: EC at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (GQ8sn)

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (PZ6/M)

130

100 Here is something to think about...

Why is this costing more?

 

Simple, Obama is building a National Chicago Machine you silly goober. This requires oodles of swag and constant purges.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (oDCMR)

131 Uh oh....barrel.

Posted by: EC at November 05, 2013 08:59 AM (GQ8sn)

132
And for the nostalgic among you, you might remember Tom Harkin was the loon who pushed the government to investigate bee pollen as a cure for all illnesses.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 05, 2013 09:00 AM (kdS6q)

133 NPR was running heavy propaganda today about all those "canceled" plans. Turns out, according to NPR, those are just inferior scam plans that being replaced with *real* insurance. Who knew heavily regulated Aetna could sneak in scam plans??? Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (pHivF) And they are lying their asses off about those supposed "Substandard" plans: as if they had $6,000 lifetime limits????/ Bullshit. Those ignorant assholes have no idea what they are talking about

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 09:00 AM (t3UFN)

134 If plans in ACA are actually taxes, then they are public monies. Why then do they not go through the Treasury, and why are public monies being spent without direct regular appropriation by Congress, and regular statements and accounts published? Have we gone back to the old Roman system of tax collectors collecting taxes for profit (by skimming a little off the top)? Jesus may have set down with them, yes--this does not mean we should employ those methods.

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 09:00 AM (ldkXG)

135

Some would pay $20 for a box of Cheerios. For others it would be free.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (ZPrif)

Don't give them any ideas.

Posted by: burmatar at November 05, 2013 09:01 AM (G/XBU)

136 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (oJ5Fd) We used this company to tuckpoint the outside. they've got good BBB ratings and an A+ angies list rating. And our friend knows the owner. I was there when the camera went up it and saw the live feed. I'm not surprised the liner is cracked though, it's old and clay. Plus there's no benefit to them telling me it's broken, they get paid for the inspection in either case, and since it's busted I'll be converting to ventless gas most likely (which they don't do, they only tuckpoint.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:01 AM (GaqMa)

137 Who knew heavily regulated Aetna could sneak in scam plans??? Better...Kaiser Permanente...wait for it...nonprofit greed.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 05, 2013 09:01 AM (659DL)

138 This is, rather than giving poor people food stamps, just doubling or tripling the cost of food to everyone else. You'd go to the grocery story. Load up a cart of groceries, and when you went to pay you'd have to first enter your IRS-verified income. Some would pay $20 for a box of Cheerios. For others it would be free. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (ZPrif) I know people who quite seriously believe that should be the case.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 09:01 AM (VtjlW)

139

Oh, it gets even better - Kathy and the Clown Posse have declared that the exchanges aren't a "Federal Health Care" system, so now they are exempt from anti-kickback laws:

 

I love that.  LOVE IT.   My God,   if it wasn't so brazenly fascistic    I'd be nominating them for    the    Nobel Prize for Best Bullshitting.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:02 AM (4df7R)

140 Senator Harkins isn't paying, I bet he forgot to tell the crowd that part.

Posted by: madamex at November 05, 2013 09:02 AM (zEl2z)

141 He added, in a Stage Whisper, that we are living in a "Society," which to him constitutes some kind of argument about our responsibility to pay for others' needs.

Why does the money always flow in one direction? 

When are other people going to start paying for my needs?

I have a metric shit-ton of stuff that needs to be paid for, and so far, no one's stepping up! 

Posted by: Phinn at November 05, 2013 09:02 AM (yc4Nt)

142 Plaster ain't happening.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 12:59 PM (GaqMa)

Steel liners that can be dropped from the top and inserted into a firebox liner.

I got a bid for that last year for about $1,200.

The guy said I didn't really need it, that my chimney was fine, but that if I did install it the fires would probably burn better.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 09:02 AM (oJ5Fd)

143 When we pay for other people’s kids to get an education, we do it through TAXES paid to the government. Obamacare, which has been a corporatist dream since Obama cut a deal with Big Pharma (even Air America called him a ‘Fascist’ at the time), results in people paying higher PREMIUMS to an insurance company.

My now-cancelled policy was not ‘junk.’ I didn’t need paediatric dental and vision care since I didn’t have children. But, the pointy-headed pricks in DC believe that they know what is best for me and every other American. That they have had to lie about their real intentions says even more about Obamacare.

Do not be misled: Americans KNOW that Barack Obama looked them in the eye and flat out lied to them. This breach of the public trust will not be forgotten and he will pay a dear price for it.

Posted by: Predictable History at November 05, 2013 09:02 AM (ontxX)

144 Just to make your day. The socialist grab is just beginning. Dowd Frank bill has now declared Prudential Insurance a "systemic" institution. What does that mean? The Fed can now run them. Met Life is fighting the same fight right now. Your going to love socialism, getting your life insurance paid? Well, that might be a problem, see you greedy pig you saved money and others didn't. That's just not "Fair".

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:03 AM (0FSuD)

145 This is where the talk inevitably turns to single payer. If this all just a redistributive tax anyway, why not just do it in an honest and straightforward manner. It'd be more efficient than this backassward Obamacare shit. That'll be the argument, at least.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 09:03 AM (ZPrif)

146 I love that. LOVE IT. My God, if it wasn't so brazenly fascistic I'd be nominating them for the Nobel Prize for Best Bullshitting. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at November 05, 2013 01:02 PM (4df7R) I am seriously regretting my life choices that led me to not being the PR spokesperson for some Leftist piece of shit. So tempted to bust out the alter ego. So tempted.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 09:03 AM (VtjlW)

147 I know people who quite seriously believe that should be the case. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 01:01 PM (VtjlW) [comment redacted to avoid banning]

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 05, 2013 09:03 AM (da5Wo)

148 That and if any geese get up you could shoot one. Might want to look up migratory bird protection legislation before shooting a Canadian Goose.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:03 AM (sByIH)

149 To paraphrase Stalin:

'One uninsured person is a tragedy; many millions of newly uninsured people is a statistic.'

That is exactly how these assholes think.

Posted by: Predictable History at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (ontxX)

150

Some would pay $20 for a box of Cheerios. For others it would be free.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

 

Pretty sure those people with EBT Cards are paying nothing, already.

Posted by: Obamacare at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (vO9wV)

151 This is, rather than giving poor people food stamps, just doubling or tripling the cost of food to everyone else.

You'd go to the grocery story. Load up a cart of groceries, and when you went to pay you'd have to first enter your IRS-verified income. Some would pay $20 for a box of Cheerios. For others it would be free.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:58 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

Excellent analogy.  Yes, this is exactly what is happening  with Ocare.

Posted by: Soona at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (JvRFW)

152

"Well my wife and I aren't having more kids, and our kids are all grown up. So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?"

 

==============

Well, gee, dum-dum, your county is not the federal government and you actually have the option to sell your house and rent and therefore not pay property taxes.

Real, real complicated.

Posted by: Jay in PA at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (3LaGb)

153  101 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandatingmaternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud.


Also uneaqual treatment/access under the law. Equality before the law is an affront to Social Justice. Never bring it up if you wish to avoid the guillotines, gulags or Death Panels. It inflames the Ivy Leaguers.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (oDCMR)

154

103 Wait, what? You can be excluded from hospice? I thought the main you "qualified" was by being in the proces of, you know, dying.

There are some types of dying that don't qualify for hospice?

............................

 

 

If you are old and "shutting down" with no specific diagnosis to blame it on Medicare will not pay for you to be in hospice. Hospice's all over the country had to cut staff when this one little requirement went into law.

Posted by: Molly k. at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (TvFAZ)

155 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 01:01 PM (GaqMa)

You aren't as dumb as you sound (for a millenial)!


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 09:04 AM (oJ5Fd)

156 isn't democracy great? We finally get to debate a law that was passed (in the middle of the night via deem n' pass) 3 years ago?

Posted by: joeindc44 is totally not on Soros's pay now...right? at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (QxSug)

157

I am seriously regretting my life choices that led me to not being the PR spokesperson for some Leftist piece of shit.


So tempted to bust out the alter ego. So tempted.

 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 01:03 PM (VtjlW)

 

You could make a mint.  

 

Hell, a fair few of the commenters here could make some good money doing that very thing.   We know lefties better than they know each other,   and we have better spelling.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (4df7R)

158 So they want people to patrol their neighborhoods, which could mean putting their own lives in danger if something goes down and they see it or whatnot, but they can't be prepared to defend themselves. Greeeeaaaaat. I see folks rushing to join that program. It's like volunteering to be a mall cop. Everybody hates you, you can't do anything if you have a problem, and the pay sucks.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (sByIH)

159 Bloop. A tiny little air pocket of truth bubbled to the top. But, what difference does it make, now?* VA voters? Pay attention.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (IXrOn)

160 I am seriously regretting my life choices that led me to not being the PR spokesperson for some Leftist piece of shit Conservative whatever. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 01:03 PM (VtjlW) Had my chance to get in the door and missed it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (da5Wo)

161 @118 Rick No mention, of course, that all those plans are state regulated. That means fifty-seven states were allowing fraud to be perpetrated on their citizens.

Posted by: RS at November 05, 2013 09:05 AM (YAGV/)

162 Might want to look up migratory bird protection legislation before shooting a Canadian Goose. Posted by: bonhomme at November 05, 2013 01:03 PM (sByIH) Legal during season everywhere, WITH a license. Many states now have an early season to kill the fucking geese that don't leave, aka golf course geese. Probably NOT legal in the city limits.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:06 AM (0FSuD)

163 If you look at every Democrat plan as a way to suck money from people to buy votes, I think you'll have almost all of them covered.

Posted by: Null at November 05, 2013 09:06 AM (P7hip)

164 I know people who quite seriously believe that should be the case. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 01:01 PM (VtjlW) [comment redacted to avoid banning] Amen. Started many replies only to delete them.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 09:06 AM (pHivF)

165 The Medicaid funds come from the state so the states will be bankrupt, that is the big plan. Everyone under the fed umbrella, even though the scoamf is incapable of opening an umbrella.

Posted by: madamex at November 05, 2013 09:07 AM (zEl2z)

166 So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?" And, furthermore...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:07 AM (IXrOn)

167 The good thing about food stamps is, as welfare programs go, it's not that market distorting. You have a normal functioning market, and we just give money to a certain class of poor people. Education and health care would be much better if we did the same. Vouchers for the poor, normal market for everybody else.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 09:07 AM (ZPrif)

168 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 01:02 PM (oJ5Fd) They actually just left, and he suggested that I look into spray lining. They don't do it because they don't think it's as good, but he said it might be cheaper. As I said, they're primary business is tuck pointing so they may not have as many options (and they were open about that fact and suggested I get quotes elsewhere in addition to theirs.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:07 AM (GaqMa)

169 I'm not going to read things here anymore. They make my head hurt.

Posted by: Low Info Mofo at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (1Y+hH)

170 If you are old and "shutting down" with no specific diagnosis to blame it on Medicare will not pay for you to be in hospice. Hospice's all over the country had to cut staff when this one little requirement went into law.

Posted by: Molly k. at November 05, 2013 01:04 PM (TvFAZ)

 

Oh, wonderful.  

 

Well, that's one way to cut down on Medicare payouts:  just tell the people for whom Medicare is paying out    that   being old isn't enough anymore.    Might as well just stay home and put a shotgun in your mouth, it'll be cheaper.

 

Liverpool Care Pathway, here we come.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (4df7R)

171 so that the 28 year old woman, who does need it, can pay less.

Except that she may have chosen the option for just a very minimum amount or no insurance.  She no longer has that choice.  So she probably will also be paying more.  She will also lose doctors, but its for her own good. or something.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (nKUHR)

172
Better...Kaiser Permanente...wait for it...nonprofit greed.
Posted by: Circa



Ah ah -- not "non profit" but rather "not for profit".

Different set of rules.  Which allows Kaiser to shelter all that sweet "for profit" Permanente MG money.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (kdS6q)

173 The good thing about food stamps is, as welfare programs go, it's not that market distorting. You have a normal functioning market, and we just give money to a certain class of poor people. Education and health care would be much better if we did the same. Vouchers for the poor, normal market for everybody else. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 01:07 PM (ZPrif) Every Agriculture bill ever says hi. (That's not a slam at you btw)

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (VtjlW)

174 Since we are going all Fascist, can we at least get the snappy uniforms and the stompy boots. Chicks dig that stuff.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 09:08 AM (oDCMR)

175 Fawk.  Back hurts and was going to skip this election but there is a bond measure for the school district that amounts to $1000, per person.  Don't know how much that is per taxpayer.  Oh hell no.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at November 05, 2013 09:09 AM (epxV4)

176 Also uneaqual treatment/access under the law.Equality before the law is an affront to Social Justice. Never bring it up if you wish to avoid the guillotines, gulags or Death Panels. It inflames the Ivy Leaguers. Like I give a rats' ass. Ivy leaguers better pray I don't break out the flames.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 09:09 AM (pHivF)

177 Speaking of killing, I am about to get my 22 out and shot some fucking crows. They are fucking with the Red Tailed hawk in the next lot.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:09 AM (0FSuD)

178

Harkin is rather dim witted.  We can thank each and every dummycrap in both houses for this law.  Without their unanimous support, we would not be rending our garments now.  Thanks JEF and Dummy's everywhere!!

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 05, 2013 09:09 AM (32Ze2)

179 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 01:07 PM (GaqMa)

You could do the steel liner yourself. I can't imagine that it is too difficult.

http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 09:09 AM (oJ5Fd)

180 166 The argument there is that one benefited from the system growing up. But here, it is all brand new, and is thus a new social compact. But Article V clealry states what the requirements for new social compacts are. They are not transient majorities and reconciliations. Therefore, no matter what court, pol, or poll says, this new social compact is ilegitimate.

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 09:10 AM (ldkXG)

181

Rush saying that  Gallup  has  TFG's approval  at 39%.

 

Soon to be released...and waiting for Wolf  Blitzer's breathless, on-the-top-of-every-hour reportage on this amazing development.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 09:10 AM (0HooB)

182 The morons get anchovies! Like it or not! Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 05, 2013 12:47 PM (DmNpO) Hey! Anchovies are good for you! Ironically, I am making a Pissaladier (from the Cote d'Azur region) tonight. Onions, garlic, anchovy fillets and black Nicoise olives. Yum.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:10 AM (IXrOn)

183 It's   a   tax!

Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at November 05, 2013 09:11 AM (q4QfH)

184 NPR was running heavy propaganda today about all those "canceled" plans. Turns out, according to NPR, those are just inferior scam plans that being replaced with *real* insurance.

Thanks government radio!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 12:52 PM (ZPrif)




All of these years of having medical and dental coverage it was all just a scam? Who knew?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 05, 2013 09:11 AM (1Jaio)

185 Rush saying that Gallup has TFG's approval at 39%. Still do damn high.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:11 AM (IXrOn)

186 I don't care about Teh JEF's approval numbers.  He is free to do whatever the hell he wants to do in the next three years.  No one is going to stop him.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 05, 2013 09:11 AM (32Ze2)

187 There's a very simple solution to all of this. Pay for your own shit. Can't pay for your own shit? Too fucking bad. Maybe you should have thought about that before you told your parents that they were stupid, spent oodles of money you don't have on a degree that is worthless, developed a drug habit, and turned your nose up at that janitor job. None of that is true for you and you still can't afford shit? Fine. Plenty of charities available. If the government would get the fuck out of it, there'd be more available. Here's the real kicker- businesses don't stay in business by not selling shit. If you want to buy something and it's too expensive for you for now, wait. Someone will realize that you and others like you make up a large enough market to do things a differently and sell shit cheaper. Yeah, your idiot college professor who's never done anything was wrong. It's not about racism or sexism, or the other bullshit. If there is a enough of a market, people will sell to you, no matter how much they despise your worthless, smelly, hippie ass. There problem solved. Let me know when the burning times are complete and we'll start over.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 05, 2013 09:12 AM (j0wOO)

188 Well, if it really is a tax (and it is) the whole thing was 'negotiated' in bad faith and people need to have that thrust in their faces everytime some detrimental consequence is exposed. The MSM and the Democrats need to pay a heavy price for this. 

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at November 05, 2013 09:12 AM (vzfrq)

189 Since we are going all Fascist, can we at least get the snappy uniforms and the stompy boots. Chicks dig that stuff. Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 01:08 PM (oDCMR)
Why, yes, yes, I do. http://bit.ly/1b9sxFE For MWR because: http://bit.ly/16DliaM

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 09:12 AM (VtjlW)

190 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 01:09 PM (oJ5Fd) I am afraid of heights actually. So no, I couldn't put in a chimney liner in a two story house. Also as a general rule I don't like to futz with things that if done wrong can burn the house down Flood, sure, burn, no. We'll see what the quote shows, and then we'll get other quotes and options. Actually the fireplace company they recommended (if we converted to gas) also does chimney liners so they may have options too. As I said, I'm not worried they lied, and it's not urgent to fix so I can just sit on it. Ironically, if I get a job money problems are suddenly less of an option and we can just start throwing money at the problem.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (GaqMa)

191 So, since it's a tax, did Harkin send John Roberts flowers and candy?

Posted by: Marcus at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (GGCsk)

192 Still can't quite comprehend a bunch of lawyers mandatingmaternity coverage for a class of people that cannot legally or physically access said coverage. This used to be considered fraud. It's a redistribution of wealth and morals.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (IXrOn)

193 Food Stamps have tons of problems, of course, but much less than other welfare programs. Most of the economic analysis I've read says the best way to run welfare programs is straight cash, or vouchers as 2nd best. You do incredible damage once you start massively distorting the market. Rent control causes more damage than just letting the rental market be free and just paying the rent for poor people. The overall cost to society is greater once you start distorting market signals for 95% to help the bottom 5%.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (ZPrif)

194 185 Rush saying that Gallup has TFG's approval at 39%. Still do damn high. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 01:11 PM (IXrOn) Take out the 14% Black and 14% Hispanic. You have a 11% approval rate among Whites. Those Yankees.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (0FSuD)

195 I am about to get my 22 out and shot some fucking crows. Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 01:09 PM (0FSuD) --- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - Wear a mask. They will remember your face and hound you mercilessly after you shoot one of the "murder" as a group of crows is called.

Posted by: Low Info Mofo at November 05, 2013 09:14 AM (1Y+hH)

196 Well, that's one way to cut down on Medicare payouts: just tell the people for whom Medicare is paying out that being old isn't enough anymore. Might as well just stay home and put a shotgun in your mouth, it'll be cheaper.

Liverpool Care Pathway, here we come.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea at November 05, 2013 01:08 PM (4df7R)

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

The mobile euthanasia units of the federally run "Poppy Fields, Inc" will be in your area soon.

Posted by: Soona at November 05, 2013 09:15 AM (JvRFW)

197 I am afraid of heights actually. So no, I couldn't put in a chimney liner in a two story house. Also as a general rule I don't like to futz with things that if done wrong can burn the house down See, see how I was nobly fixing your problem earlier today! *buffs nails* You're welcome.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 09:15 AM (VtjlW)

198 The problem isn't that gubbermint is forcing us to pay for stuff we don't want or need. They do that all the time. The problem is this is a stealth tax.

Posted by: Caliban at November 05, 2013 09:15 AM (DrC22)

199 I would like to remind everyone that in 2008, when Iowans had an opportunity to vote this weasel out, the state GOP refused to help out the candidate who won the primary (Chris Reed) and ENCOURAGED voters to keep Harkin in office.

I don't think I'll ever forgive them for that.

Posted by: pookysgirl at November 05, 2013 09:15 AM (kMnHs)

200 Ironically, I am making a Pissaladier (from the Cote d'Azur region) tonight.

Onions, garlic, anchovy fillets and black Nicoise olives.

Yum.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette

Tapenade sounds much better than Piss salad.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 05, 2013 09:15 AM (xz0nG)

201 No mention, of course, that all those plans are state regulated. That means fifty-seven states were allowing fraud to be perpetrated on their citizens.

Posted by: RS at November 05, 2013 01:05 PM (YAGV/)


And those plans were approved by their State Insurance Commissioner (like Sebelius did in Kansas, back in the day). 


Why isn't she up on charges for foisting those crappy plans upon the citizens of her state?


Oh wait, I bet the (D) has something to do with it!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 05, 2013 09:16 AM (XdnQT)

202 The maternity care costs imposed on 60 year olds does not benefit those 60 year olds. It is not "better coverage" for them. What it is, of course, is a forced subsidy towards 28 year old women, taking from one group to redistribute wealth (in the form of subsidized health costs) to someone else. The 60 year old, who has no need of maternity care, pays for it, so that the 28 year old woman, who does need it, can pay less. Conversely, the 28 year old woman probably doesn't need skilled nursing home care, but gets to pay for it anyway. You pick your poison.

Posted by: toby928© at November 05, 2013 09:16 AM (QupBk)

203 @195 Funny you should mention that. I do and usually I sneak up on them. After I popped a few, months ago, the little bastard will immediately take off if they see me with the rife. Don't even need to shot them now, they just get the fuck out of here.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (0FSuD)

204 Well, Tom Harkin is a long time socialist, if not out-right Communist.

Posted by: iowaan at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (crTpS)

205 If we keep the house and win the senate we could stop or slow some things

Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (zOTsN)

206 businesses don't stay in business by not selling shit

Can I get that in raised letters on a baseball bat?  There are some in management around here that need that message kinetically impressed into their skulls.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (epxV4)

207 The Gallup poll sample is comprised of "national adults". Just released - Disapprove 53%  Approve 39%

Posted by: mrp at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (HjPtV)

208

I don't care about Teh JEF's approval numbers. He is free to do whatever the hell he wants to do in the next three years. No one is going to stop him.

 

I kinda do. If  there's a bright spot  to be found  to this (surprising as I have yet to commence drinking yet), maybe, just maybe, a couple of the LIV's  will start to wake up. If they wake up,  then there may be a bit more resistance to the Fundamental Transformation.

 

Which won't stop it, but may slow it down. Come to think of it, that might be worse. It's like falling over the cliff just a bit more slowly: the bottom is still there, waiting.

 

Oh  well...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 09:17 AM (0HooB)

209 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at November 05, 2013 01:15 PM (VtjlW) I like burning things don't get me wrong. Oh well, if it stays warmish, there's still the outside fire pit for a while.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:18 AM (GaqMa)

210 The problem is this is a stealth tax. Posted by: Caliban at November 05, 2013 01:15 PM (DrC22) Except this is about as stealthy as a B-29 with boom boxes attached to the outside of the fuselage playing Blood Sweat and Tears

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 09:18 AM (t3UFN)

211 By the way, Mr. Harkin, we call that type of forced redistribution "socialism". Look it up.

Once a democratic republic undertakes the whimsical causes of utopian statists as their premise for existence, without intellectual interruption, replacing easily predicted factual outcomes with hopes and dreams, you've lost and lost big. None of this is wise or sustainable.

Posted by: Marcus at November 05, 2013 09:18 AM (GGCsk)

212 that's ok- the chief wookie is holding a party for the hindu god of trunk junk.

Posted by: tully sempronicus at November 05, 2013 09:18 AM (lB/5N)

213 207 The Gallup poll sample is comprised of "national adults". Just released - Disapprove 53% Approve 39% National adults, AKA we are polling illegals.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:18 AM (0FSuD)

214 Tapenade sounds much better than Piss salad. Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 05, 2013 01:15 PM (xz0nG) lol I misspelled, pissaladiere. It's a tart, baked with sauteed onions and garlic, the anchovies and olives on top. Homemade yeast bread. Not even close to a salad, haha. But, we are having it with soup. You'ld love it.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:19 AM (IXrOn)

215 Obama swore up and down he wasn't taxing people in order to pay for his boondoggle. Tom Harkin just admitted that's precisely what he's doing.

This redistributive tax thingy just makes Obama's supporters love it even more.  Stickin' it to whitey, or richie, or whatever.

Conservatives don't get the hit of dopamine from watching the success of others get punished that proggs do.  I mean, the fascist scrunt who sits behind me--who makes a fairly decent salary for a 26-year-old and seems to own a lot of toys and has decent employer-provided health insurance--got a stiffy last week when he was ranting about how "the wealthy" need to have more of their income confiscated by government.  It wasn't just the old "fairness" canard; destroying people's lives (instead of trying to build up your own life, or the lives of others not as successful) gives some people a psychological rush of pleasure. 

Crabs in a bucket.  And there's more of them than there are of us.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ is sick at November 05, 2013 09:19 AM (ZKzrr)

216 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 01:14 PM (GaqMa)

I had a poured cement liner installed in my cracked brick chimney.  I have no idea how they did it, but the house hasn't burned down yet. The flue is used for a wood-burning fireplace insert, FWIW

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 05, 2013 09:20 AM (XdnQT)

217 In our utopian future, everyone who it now rich will be poor and everyone who is now poor will still be poor, but will have bitchin' 22" chrome spinner rims.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 05, 2013 09:20 AM (j0wOO)

218 Don't even need to shot them now, they just get the fuck out of here. Posted by: Nip Sip Yep. Wiley they are. And they know how to use noise as a psyops weapon.

Posted by: Meremortal, Low Info Mofo at November 05, 2013 09:20 AM (1Y+hH)

219 The ObamaCare speech he never gave By Rich LowryNovember 5, 2013 | 6:24am http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/the-obamacare-speech-he-never-gave/ Worth the read: Funny and true

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 05, 2013 09:21 AM (t3UFN)

220 My primary problem with the Roberts decision on Obamacare is exactly what Harkin is stating. By inventing law that qualified this as a "tax", Roberts has opened up a huge door for the legislative branch to drive a Mack Truck through and justify the worst, most destructive things these people can dream of under the guise of being a "tax".

Posted by: Marcus at November 05, 2013 09:21 AM (GGCsk)

221 I don't care about Teh JEF's approval numbers. He is free to do whatever the hell he wants to do in the next three years. No one is going to stop him. I kinda do. If there's a bright spot to be found to this (surprising as I have yet to commence drinking yet), maybe, just maybe, a couple of the LIV's will start to wake up. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at November 05, 2013 01:17 PM (0HooB) And, maybe, just maybe, a Republican will grow a spine.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:21 AM (IXrOn)

222
you actually have the option to sell your house and rent and therefore not pay property taxes.

Renters actually do pay the property taxes, its included but not broken out in the rent they pay.  Renters should understand this when they vote to increase property taxes "for the children and the schools".

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 05, 2013 09:21 AM (nKUHR)

223 Didn't members of the CBC refer to it as Reparations? Pretty sure I recall that. --- I wouldn't be surprised if one did. Maxine Waters would probably have screamed it from the rooftop to her voters. Sheila Jackson-Lee probably would have said it by accident while putting off one of her white constituents on a town hall while talking on a cell phone.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 05, 2013 09:21 AM (/Crba)

224 About those low approval numbers. Some of that's coming from slugs who think they aren't getting enough free shit.

Posted by: Meremortal, Low Info Mofo at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (1Y+hH)

225 that's ok- the chief wookie is holding a party for the hindu god of trunk junk. #twerking. Because I #care.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (pHivF)

226 businesses don't stay in business by not selling shit When I worked at Siemens a big part of their business was selling things to other groups within Siemens for an inflated price. Then the individual groups would post a "loss" and take a tax credit. It's similar to how movies are never technically profitable.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (sByIH)

227 #199 I'm starting to think these Republican fellows don't have our interests at heart. Perish the thought.

Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (p748t)

228 Considering that ComTom Harkin sees us all as government property, the property tax analogy isn't that far off.  After all, the owner may have some say in how property is taxed, but the property itself does not.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (4WhSY)

229 Posted by: Hrothgar at November 05, 2013 01:20 PM (XdnQT) Ventless fireplaces don't need the flue (in fact you have to cap it off) but can also get pricey. As I said, they need 3 days to put together the report and estimate (they do a nice report with pictures and such) and then I'll fish that report to a few other places for quotes as well go visit a few really well know fireplace shops around here and see what they think. Worst case scenario, we have a fireplace that looks pretty (it's brick) but can't be used. (Actually my wife's aunt suggested we just load it with candles.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (GaqMa)

230 >This redistributive tax thingy just makes Obama's supporters love it even more. Stickin' it to whitey, or richie, or whatever.<

They are gunna love it even more when the adults are back in charge.

Posted by: Marcus at November 05, 2013 09:22 AM (GGCsk)

231

194 185 Rush saying that Gallup has TFG's approval at 39%.


Still do damn high.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 01:11 PM (IXrOn)

Take out the 14% Black and 14% Hispanic. You have a 11% approval rate among Whites. Those Yankees.

------

Think the numbers are black: 13%, Hispanic 16.5%, Jews 2.2% = 31.7% giving you 7.3% Whites approving. The amazing demo is the 2.2% directly control 22% of the Legislative seats in the US Congress. Might explain some of our domestic and foreign policy decisions. Fix that and see what America looks like.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at November 05, 2013 09:23 AM (oDCMR)

232 And fuck Tom Harkin with a seed auger.

(I really do not want to drive back to Iowa for Thanksgiving.)

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ is sick at November 05, 2013 09:23 AM (ZKzrr)

233 Direct vent gas fireplace insert They are awesome

Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 09:24 AM (zOTsN)

234

There is an argument that paying property taxes has certain second hand benefits to the person paying.  In addition, everyone is paying property taxes - landowner and renter.

 

For the ObamaScare sleight of hand?  The secondary benefits are not there they are with a property tax.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet - Your Stop for ThanksMas Squabbles and Festivus Grievances at November 05, 2013 09:24 AM (hLRSq)

235 Old and Busted: "We'll bend the cost curve down."

New Hotness: "Better coverage costs more, you know."

Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at November 05, 2013 09:24 AM (ylG8S)

236 205 If we keep the house and win the senate we could stop or slow some things Posted by: Thunderb ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Not with Tortuga McConnell at the helm...

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 05, 2013 09:24 AM (LSJmV)

237 Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 01:14 PM (GaqMa)

That's how I feel about electricity. I can change out an outlet or a switch, but that's about it, and even then I am extremely worried that I will electrocute myself.

I change light bulbs with the best of 'em though!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 09:25 AM (oJ5Fd)

238 Roberts ruling, like so many other black robe rulings, destroys the link between the government and consenting citizens.  Basically, there is no limit to the Realpolitik justification to tax anyone for any reason on any action or inaction.

Thanks Barry and John.

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 05, 2013 09:25 AM (XdnQT)

239
It's a tart, baked with sauteed onions and garlic, the anchovies and olives on top.

Homemade yeast bread.

Not even close to a salad, haha. But, we are having it with soup.

You'd love it.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette

Ah, i gottcha. Does sound good.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 05, 2013 09:25 AM (xz0nG)

240 @186 The JEF is free to do as he pleases unless we get majorities in both houses that are veto proof and also ready to hand up articles of impeachment.

Posted by: chuckR at November 05, 2013 09:25 AM (n1exz)

241

This is the biggest fuck up in the history of the human race, period.

And all thanks to Affirmative Action and idiot GOPers.

Fuckin hell.


Posted by: Rev Dr E Ed Shults, Esq at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (PcMDG)

242

Commercials, if Romeo was running the GOP...

 

Commercial 1. Obama saying you can keep your health insurance... PERIOD...

cut to a graphic saying "what else has he lied about?"

 

Commercial 2.  Obama saying you can keep your Doctor...

Same graphic, 'what else has he lied about?'

 

Commercial 3.  Obama saying he won't raise taxes on the Middle Class... cut to John Roberts... "its a Tax".... cut to graphic saying average insurance is going up 41%....

Same graphic.... 'what else has he lied about?'

 

Commerical 4.  Obama saying Benghazi was in response to the movie.... cut to report saying it was a well planned terrorist action....

 

Gee.... guess what Graphic?

 

Commercial 5.  Obama saying he is for an all the above Energy Policy... then cut to EPA action on Coal, and something about we are STILL not really drilling in the Gulf.....

 

Graphic....

 

 

I can go on and on.... but you see the meme..... make it simple, short, and use Obama's own words..... go after his CREDIBILITY....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (lZBBB)

243 219 heh, fi Hello, St. Paul! It is so good to be back in the great state of Minnesota. Go Golfers! [We love you!] I love you back! [Stomping, cheers.] [insert special effects sound track with photo shop of crowd that never materialized]

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (MhA4j)

244 "....if the fruit basket you picked up 10 minutes before arriving is gonna work."

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 05, 2013 01:23 PM (OWjjx)

And if you are overdressed?

That's the worst!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (oJ5Fd)

245 >>>you actually have the option to sell your house and rent and therefore not pay property taxes. >>>Renters actually do pay the property taxes, its included but not broken out in the rent they pay. Renters should understand this when they vote to increase property taxes "for the children and the schools". ... But, but... that's why we need rent controlled apartments! *sigh* Yup, let's keep electing the geniuses who can't comprehend that there is no free lunch, you can't spend the same dollar twice, and eventually tax rates exceed the value of the dollar... then you have nothing.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (j0wOO)

246 Thought for the day: We're not just paying to subsidize someone else's insurance, we're paying to subsidize someone else's morality.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, puttin' a hit out on Pixy at November 05, 2013 09:26 AM (naUcP)

247 Property Tax - Rent paid to the state. If you do not pay it, men with guns will come and take the property from you.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 05, 2013 09:27 AM (aDwsi)

248

When I lived in Manitoba we had a government owned and operated automobile insurance company. Every vehicle owned in Manitoba had to be insured through the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation.

The common perception was that public insurance was cheaper than privately-provided insurance. But when we moved to Alberta and had to buy car insurance from a private provider our car insurance costs were pretty much cut in half.

The thing is, in Manitoba good drivers subsidized the insurance costs of poor drivers. In public health insurance healthy people subsidize unhealthy people. People who don't need a particular type of coverage subsidize people who do need it.

Posted by: Northernlurker at November 05, 2013 09:27 AM (Xmw9g)

249 223 Oh, that is certainly part of it. Eventually, when the other arguments diminish in force, those chestnuts will start to come out. It would have been grand if their had been reparations in 1865, or 1877, or 1964. But there weren't. The Earth belongs to the Living, not memories of the dead.

Posted by: T. at November 05, 2013 09:27 AM (ldkXG)

250 This is the biggest fuck up in the history of the human race, period.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Ed Shults, Esq at November 05, 2013 01:26 PM (PcMDG)

I beg to differ....

Posted by: Hitler Invading Russia at November 05, 2013 09:27 AM (oJ5Fd)

251 Old and Busted: "We'll bend the cost curve down." New Hotness: "Better coverage costs more, you know." Newest Hotness: "We'll bend it & break it off in your ass!"

Posted by: rickb223 at November 05, 2013 09:27 AM (pHivF)

252 we're paying to subsidize someone else's morality hedonistic self-indulgence. Posted by: Brother

Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 05, 2013 09:28 AM (aDwsi)

253 You gotta love how the Democrat's get togather to repeat the same lie, I first heard New Jersey Congressman a real a-wipe state how everyones current policy was a rip off and how we were finally getting a insurance plan that was worth something. Then repeated by every Democrat talking head, what Harkin didn't get the memo?

Posted by: MarkyMark at November 05, 2013 09:28 AM (FuBM5)

254 I can go on and on.... but you see the meme..... make it simple, short, and use Obama's own words..... go after his CREDIBILITY.... Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 01:26 PM (lZBBB) Good stuff, but, we have to link it to the entire Democrat Party.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (IXrOn)

255 251 This is the biggest fuck up in the history of the human race, period. No that would be a married woman during menopause.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (0FSuD)

256 Several people in my family are actually quite talented at spending the same dollar twice. Or three times. Some months even up to 4 times. Ironically it is always someone else's fault they don't have any money. These are the same people who LOVE obamacare because they seriously believe it will solve all their problems.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (RZ8pf)

257 OT - 1 percent more woke up. TFG approval at 39.

Posted by: RWC at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (fWAjv)

258 Posted by: Thunderb at November 05, 2013 01:24 PM (zOTsN) Also a possible option, but I'd really rather not have a hole cut in my gorgeous brick chimney Maybe there's some way they can vent out the bottom foundational part. We shall see. Report by Friday over the weekend we'll take it to various places and see what they say.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (GaqMa)

259

One of the things that torques my jaw about this "distributed cost" BS is bogus *MATH*

If  54 yr old Joe pays $XXX dolars for health insurance, and 25yr old Suzy the slut pays $XXX plus $YY for maternity coverage, then the distributed cost would be both of them paying $XXX plus $YY/2  assuming equal distributions of Joes and Suzys, which ther isn't.

In ZERO instance would anybody pay more than Suzy.

So the increase in cast is most certainly *NOT* the BS improved coverage for shit you can't use but someone else might need.

Come on Republicans, you are supposed to be the folks who can do math. Figure out what the real added cost *beyond the BS improvments* are and how much they are.

 

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at November 05, 2013 09:29 AM (xcAaF)

260 Tsrblke, My house is 100 years old, but when I had a new boiler furnace put in a few years ago, I was told that the new furnace does not use the chimney, so it could be removed. I kept it for ascetic reasons, but you might want to check the age of your furnace. If it was replaced before you bought your house, you may not need your chimney.

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 09:30 AM (gxtMZ)

261 Actually my wife's aunt suggested we just load it with candles. That can look surprisingly nice, in a new-age sort of way. ItÂ’s especially effective at Christmas, along with a few poinsettias.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 05, 2013 09:30 AM (QF8uk)

262 So dillweed Harkin kinda makes a conservative point but totally misses the tree through the forest. Yeah, property taxes are redistributive, but at least you have some fucking local control, and hopefully some benefit, to paying property taxes for your town! Yeah, you don't have kids anymore, but you can still benefit from a decent school in your town: go to a sports game, see the high school concert or theater, etc. If I pay into a federal healthcare racket in Maine, I could be subsidizing some bint I'll never meet in Sacramento. LOCAL CONTROL HARKIN! LOCAL CONTROL!

Posted by: Brass Bancroft at November 05, 2013 09:31 AM (2iHnw)

263 O/T (because there ain't an open thread in sight, apologies): So, Jaimie Alexander, who plays Sif in the Thor movies, wore this to the premier for Thor 2: http://tinyurl.com/kf6oxr8

Posted by: Brother Cavil, puttin' a hit out on Pixy at November 05, 2013 09:31 AM (naUcP)

264 You gotta love how the Democrat's get togather to repeat the same lie, -------------------- WH issues talking points.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at November 05, 2013 09:31 AM (aDwsi)

265 New one!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit Chelsea [/i][/s][/u][/b] at November 05, 2013 09:32 AM (4df7R)

266 Posted by: Chilling the most at November 05, 2013 01:30 PM (gxtMZ) The chimney is for a wood burning fireplace. So I don't "need" it except for the aesthetic awesomeness of a fire. So my current cost is 0 (well the $200 inspection) until I choose to act, which is nice. There's no urgency. The house was built in the 60s, so we have a central flue for the furnace and hot water heater. The outside was going to need to be tuck pointed regardless (and it looks awesome now.)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:32 AM (GaqMa)

267 Send Sibelius to test drive* a fact finding mission to Saudi Arabia. How's medical insurance working there? *best left to Wahhabi law

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 05, 2013 09:32 AM (MhA4j)

268

With property taxes if you have a bigger house you pay more for it.

But with Obamacare everyone gets the same house but some people get a subsidy to live in the big house,  And lot's of people are paying for big empty houses they don't want or need. 

Posted by: petunia at November 05, 2013 09:33 AM (DAcBA)

269 Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at November 05, 2013 01:30 PM (QF8uk) Given their concern over the chimney was smoke and CO2, Candles should be OK.

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 05, 2013 09:33 AM (GaqMa)

270 Speaking of Somali, I went to make a withdraw from the ATM and my choices were English, Spanish, and Somali.

Posted by: Chris at November 05, 2013 09:34 AM (aBOfW)

271
"Hitler Invading Russia"

It ain't over yet my Commie Kraut friend.


Posted by: Rev Dr E Ed Shults, Esq at November 05, 2013 09:35 AM (PcMDG)

272

Let's face it.  We are now living in a fascist/marxist  country. 

 

I  also read earlier (again I can't remember;  probably Tepid Air) that Dear Leader is preparing for a campaign.  A campaign for what?  I can only think of one.

Posted by: Soona at November 05, 2013 09:35 AM (JvRFW)

273 Hello, Roberts figured this out a while ago.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 05, 2013 09:35 AM (dakZo)

274

Posted by: Brother Cavil, puttin' a hit out on Pixy at November 05, 2013 01:26 PM (naUcP)

 

What we are seeing is the end result of using 'Fairness' as a bludgeon to force the individual to support the collective...

 

We have a Trifecta of forces moving which they are using to destroy the idea of Natural Rights.... Safety (take out 9/11, and you are more likely to die being shot by an American cop, than a Terrorist), Fairness (where the Minorities are given an advantage over the Majorities), and Stateism (where decision makers are so far removed from the populace, that what the populace wants does not matter... like making the EPA in charge of LOCAL water rights).

 

These three forces are destroying any power the Individual has to affect change.... or even control their own destiny..... short of drastic measures.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 09:37 AM (lZBBB)

275

It would be wonderful if, instead of backtracking and saying that his remarks were "taken out of context" (which will happen in 5...4...3...2...1...), Harkin (and other highly visible dems like him) tells the American people that he meant what he said, and that after thinking about it some more, obamacare and so many other dem ideas like it are just flat out wrong for America.  You would hope some of them would have an epiphany, a Zell Miller moment...You'd hope that there'd be a tipping point.

Posted by: Uncle Jefe at November 05, 2013 09:37 AM (25KoS)

276 Sometimes I think the Left is just fucking with me. Trying to get a rise out of me, get me super pissed so I'll mess up. Stuff like this...takes real effort to think of a calm and reasoned reply that doesn't involve shouting and a very red face.

Posted by: Fred at November 05, 2013 09:40 AM (Os+6p)

277 Posted by: TSgt Ciz at November 05, 2013 01:29 PM (xcAaF) Hide posts from (xcAaF) I have no idea what you are saying here. Are you saying that everyone is getting equal value for their insurance dollar, which is clearly not true in the case of maternity coverage for the male or postmenopausal inusured.

Posted by: toby928© at November 05, 2013 09:41 AM (QupBk)

278

I see arguments like this in comment sections all the time.  These people have a fundamental misunderstanding of insurance and what it is supposed to do. 

 

Under Harkin's construct, we all benefit from paying for maternity coverage because the teeny-tiny number of women who don't have it will still go to the hospital to have their babies, "and we will all pay for that."  But that is an argument that just is not going to sell to the 60-year-old man whose premium just tripled.  And exactly how much is my share of the cost of maternity care for those handful of women who don't have insurance now?  I'm guessing somewhere south of the $400 a month extra I'm being asked to pay now.

 

Instead of directly helping the people with no insurance to get it, these geniuses decided it made more sense to raise everyone's premiums and force people to buy coverage they don't need or want, and that everyone would be just hunky-dory with that. 

Posted by: rockmom at November 05, 2013 09:42 AM (NYnoe)

279 I have to admit though, that me giving birth would be the kind of unexpected expense that insurance is for.

Posted by: toby928© pale penis person at November 05, 2013 09:44 AM (QupBk)

280

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 01:37 PM (lZBBB)

 

Upon further research... I must tell you I was wrong....

 

Cops kill between 400 and 500 people per year in this country... ergo, since 9/11 Cops have killed MANY more US Citizens, than we have lost to terrorism in this country.... as 9/11 killed 2,996 people...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 09:44 AM (lZBBB)

281 Except that young lady wont be paying less for maternity care because at the same time she is paying more for prostate exams and other treatments.

Posted by: Wodun at November 05, 2013 09:50 AM (fbqZE)

282 Except that young lady wont be paying less for maternity care because at the same time she is paying more for prostate exams and other treatments. I have a pretty low unit-cost though.

Posted by: The Finger Wave at November 05, 2013 09:51 AM (QupBk)

283 Tom, if you are so for these "redistributive taxes", why in the hell did you exempt yourself and your staffers from paying them?

Posted by: TexBob at November 05, 2013 09:54 AM (ag6so)

284 Tell me again why the numbers of enrollees seems to be so hard to divulge? Oh, yeah. To propel more lying democrats like Terry-boy into office so there will be more servants to the king. Mother fuckers. I cannot believe people tolerate this!!!!!

Posted by: DefendUSA at November 05, 2013 10:01 AM (nAHMK)

285 Cops kill between 400 and 500 people per year in this country... ergo, since 9/11 Cops have killed MANY more US Citizens, than we have lost to terrorism in this country.... as 9/11 killed 2,996 people...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 05, 2013 01:44 PM (lZBBB)

 

And about a 100 cops are killed  in this country each year.  

Posted by: polynikes at November 05, 2013 10:01 AM (m2CN7)

286 These cancellations were planned for. How else would they get their 7 million suckers to sign up and subsidize 404Care?


Posted by: PJ at November 05, 2013 10:09 AM (ZWaLo)

287 It's so fucking stupid.
60 year old males subsidizing 28 year old females, 28 year old females in turn subsidizing 60 year old males...

just let everyone keep their own money and spend it as they see fit... but then again - there is no way to demagogue that by turning it into a war on womenz! or don't kill grandpa.

Posted by: Reality Man at November 05, 2013 11:27 AM (obXkJ)

288 "Not so sure about this.

$700 BILLION was cut from Medicare to fund Obamacare.

It's going to affect them.

Posted by: Tami at November 05, 2013 12:42 PM (bCEmE)"

Billy Jeff said that JEF saved medicare by cutting $700 billion, still can't understand why only medicare could be saved by cutting funding.

Posted by: Jukin at November 05, 2013 11:39 AM (WGm5T)

289 Commercial 6. Obama saying raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean you have more debt... $500 billion in new debt in two weeks...
cut to a graphic saying "what else has he lied about?"

Posted by: Jukin at November 05, 2013 11:44 AM (WGm5T)

290 So my coverage is "better" if it helps someone else while hurting me?

Posted by: John T at November 05, 2013 11:48 AM (JvdZv)

291 So, does this mean that gays are being forced to subsidize "breeders"*? *"breeder"s is the pejorative name for heteros

Posted by: Vera at November 05, 2013 12:01 PM (x1cqT)

292 "Well my wife and I aren't having more kids, and our kids are all grown up. So why should we pay property taxes for schooling children?"


Ah... SO ITS A TAX.

Yes, it is - a tax on America for the stupidity of electing progressive socialists like Obama.


Posted by: Patrick M at November 05, 2013 12:49 PM (oNqbW)

293 "Well, that's one way to cut down on Medicare payouts: just tell the people for whom Medicare is paying out that being old isn't enough anymore. Might as well just stay home and put a shotgun in your mouth, it'll be cheaper."

Obamacare - bending the cost curve lower, one Soylent Green contributor at a time.

Posted by: Patrick M at November 05, 2013 12:52 PM (oNqbW)

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