December 02, 2013

Top Headline Comments 12-2-13
— Gabriel Malor

Happy Monday.

WaPo's Goldfarb notes the emergence of a more populist strain among Democrats, particularly Sen. Liz Warren, and ties it to Election 2016. Of course, Goldfarb misstates what chained CPI would do in the first sentence (it reduces the growth rate of Social Security payments, not anyone's individual payments), but the gist is worth a read. A populist-flavored example from the right would be Sen. Lee and his proposed bump in the child tax credit.

Coehlo Speaks has some long and interesting posts (one and two) about the future of the GOP and whether a "transformative realignment" is coming. This is an area ripe for speculation (certainly, we see enough comparisons of the GOP to the Whig Party these days) and I encourage you to read it, but not because I think it's necessarily correct.

As I have argued a couple times on the podcast, things in existence have a tendency to stay in existence, and that goes for both the political parties and their significantly less-than-dependable voters. The story of political transformation is evolutionary, not revolutionary, as even Coehlo admits. The attempt to tie our current situation to three prior unusual revolutions in U.S. politics relies on extraordinary circumstances that don't exist here -- an actual revolution (aka the Civil War), the Great Depression and subsequent Second War, and the Vietnam War.

Or let me put it this way. Those who thought 2004 ushered in a decades-long era of Republican primacy were foolish. Those who thought 2008 would usher in a decades-long era of Democratic governance were foolish. And those who think 2016 can provide a decades-long era of Republican dominance are also foolish.

Our present circumstances don't even meet Coehlo's own terms for realignment. From his second post:

There are three essential factors that precipitated the dawning of new political eras of the past. The first is rather obvious: an unpopular incumbent President from the party that has been dominant in an era. Second, a transcendent event or confluence of events must take place that serve to undermine the governing philosophy of the party in power. The third and final factor is an oft overlooked one. There must be a burgeoning new base already developing for the party to expand into, a region in a state of political flux that the other two factors push into the opposite camp. Each factor has been present in the 3 realignments outlined Friday, and they can be seen in today's political climate as well.

We certainly have an unpopular incumbent President, but not from a party that has been dominant in an era. There has been no dominant party for decades. Instead, we've seen an ebb and flow as fickle voters merely turn against the last group they've voted for. Modern elections are poo-flinging contests and it's easier for voters to simply vote for the guy wearing the least amount of poo at the end of the fight--and usually, that's members of the incumbent party.

Moreover, while Obamacare certainly undermines the entire liberal progressive project, there's no indication that Coehlo's third condition is met. Voters dissatisfied with Obama and the Democrats are more likely to vote for Republicans next time, sure. And they're also likely to change their vote at the following election if they become dissatisfied with Republican incumbents. These persuadable voters aren't ideological. They're not going to settle on one party and then stick for decades.

That's the lesson that populism advocates, like, say Warren and Lee, need to learn. You don't buy an electorate forever with a one-time-only give-away. You have to keep giving to keep getting them. And, to borrow an idea from Lady Thatcher, eventually you run out of other people's money to give away.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:53 AM | Comments (313)
Post contains 628 words, total size 4 kb.

1 First!!!!!!!

Posted by: southdakotaboy at December 02, 2013 02:54 AM (Baypg)

2 Second!!!!!!

Posted by: southdakotaboy at December 02, 2013 02:54 AM (Baypg)

3 Good Morning Morons.  Today is Monday, December 02, 2013.  On this day of infamy in 1970 the EPA was established.  It was established in response to the over-hyped love canal media frenzy.  Both were frauds then and both are still frauds now.  The first thing the EPA did was ban DDT by direction of the mass murderer Rucklesnot appointed by Nixon.  It started out as a political agency and remains so.


The story of the DDT scam can be read on the publication Facts versus Fears

http://tinyurl.com/8tvpv

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:54 AM (YowqD)

4 Thir.....oh you get the point!

Posted by: southdakotaboy at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (Baypg)

5 The NTSB is investigating the cause of the train crash in NYC.  I predict excessive speed will be blamed and not the sharply curving track.


http://tinyurl.com/om3sy24

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (YowqD)

6 NY Cardinal Dolan does not like his shit sandwich after supporting universal healthcare since 1990.  This shows the naivety of church leaders.  Did they think that supporting a Democrat health program would not bring in mandatory contraception and abortion (which will be coming despite promises).  There is an old saying that is applicable here.  When you sup with the Devil you need a long spoon.


http://tinyurl.com/qf6fn7o

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (YowqD)

7 Unions are targeting IL Democrats for a plan to prevent State bankruptcy by ending the golden parachute retirement plans of government workers.  The irony is sublime.  You got in bed with these dogs now get up with the fleas.


http://tinyurl.com/nz9sg5h

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (YowqD)

8 Movie review length in the a.m.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (X/4E9)

9 They are closing the last of the Dirty Dancing resorts in NY.  The prediction made at the end of the film was spot on.


http://tinyurl.com/pfvsdlf

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:55 AM (YowqD)

10 OH family in court fighting a trespasser who has moved into their house and claimed a "quite title" possession.  What I want to know is why is this asshole not in jail?  If it were my house he would be filing on a plot.


http://tinyurl.com/pm8w7f7

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:56 AM (YowqD)

11 Houston educator slammed for saying some of the HS girls dress like hoes.  Well, do they?


http://tinyurl.com/pjlzywx

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:56 AM (YowqD)

12 In a clear case of "no shit Sherlock" L.A. officials say speed was a "factor" in the Walker car crash.


http://tinyurl.com/pxgq8ds

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:56 AM (YowqD)

13 NYT article "Fast Food Strikes Called in 100 cities".  What they don't say is that only 20 of these protesting goons work at the fast food outlets.  The rest are union paid axelturfers.  This is why you don't hear about a mass of firings at the local burger heavens, they don't work there to begin with.


http://tinyurl.com/psu39c9

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:57 AM (YowqD)

14 Stores say they had record crowds in the stores this weekend but nobody was buying anything.  I see two things that impacted this.  One is uncertainty over the massive increase in health insurance costs that are coming in next year and two, judging from what I saw in the papers Thursday, there were few real deals being offered on the so-called "Black Friday".


http://tinyurl.com/k6swzmm

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:57 AM (YowqD)

15 More indications that we are headed into a mini-ice age as The Old Farmer's Almanac predicted.  Al Bore, the MFM, and Democrats hardest hit.


http://tinyurl.com/ogxyfl7

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:57 AM (YowqD)

16 Those "FOO" (friends of Obama) who rolled out the shitty program for Obamacide have already been involved in a previous government program failure in Iraq.  Yet they got a $600M no-bid contract, which is never done.  Do you smell crony corruption?


http://tinyurl.com/lyo78pu

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:58 AM (YowqD)

17 Greetings, pixel people. Warren is hardly a "populist." She's a Progressive/Communist and her agenda seeks only more power and control over our lives, not a return to a limited government as our Founders intended. SNAFU, y'all.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 02, 2013 02:58 AM (0HooB)

18 Kirsten Powers talks about her conversion from atheist Democrat to Christian "conservative".


http://tinyurl.com/q6sqky9

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:58 AM (YowqD)

19 Obamacide is a stealth minimum wage hike.  Kill it, kill it dead and drive a stake through it.


http://tinyurl.com/lz6ygf7

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:58 AM (YowqD)

20 Obama has no shame as he sends out a picture of himself sitting in the Rosa Parks bus.  What exactly has this asshole done for "blacks" besides turn race relations back 100 years?


http://tinyurl.com/no9q45p

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:59 AM (YowqD)

21 Obama has lost the WaPo.  They say he is lying about the Iran deal.  If they had been truthful they would say he lies every time he opens his ugly pie hole.


http://tinyurl.com/lroy7bp

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:59 AM (YowqD)

22 George Will says all hell is going to break lose when employers dump health insurance due to Obamacide.   I predicted there will be blood in the streets because we are looking at hundreds of millions losing insurance.  Of course that will provide the "reason" the government must step in to become "single payer" and nationalize the healthcare industry.  And that has been their intent all along.


http://tinyurl.com/kvg967r

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 02:59 AM (YowqD)

23 In an end-run around congress Obama is using the EPA to kill bullet making by closing the last lead smelter in the US.


http://tinyurl.com/m7zxaut

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:00 AM (YowqD)

24 Clinched a playoff berth in Fantasy football. Have to wait until tonight's game to know where I'm seeded. Most likely third. 700 bucks right before Christmas would be nice.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 03:00 AM (ZshNr)

25 If I came home and found a stranger living in my home, he would soon find himself outdoors. And since he doesn't believe in rule of law or whatever the hell his philosophy is, I can shoot him inside or outside my house or in the middle of the street, since laws are moot.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 03:00 AM (X/4E9)

26 Bitch McConnell shows his true RINO attitude.


http://tinyurl.com/oevenmk

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:00 AM (YowqD)

27 Racism and sexism are A-OK for the MFM if the victims are conservatives.


http://tinyurl.com/owxpf8c

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:00 AM (YowqD)

28 Interesting photo on Shorpy this morning.  The 1952 Hamlet, NC football team.  I used to drive through Hamlet a lot on the way to Raleigh on buisness.  If you blink you will miss it.


http://www.shorpy.com/node/16594?size=_original#caption

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:01 AM (YowqD)

29 Kindle Daily Deals

It's cyber Monday for book deals!


http://tinyurl.com/ovhfg58



That's it for today folks.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:01 AM (YowqD)

30 The thought of fast food workers being unionized is the dumbest fucking thing I've heard recently

Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone at December 02, 2013 03:01 AM (kEIun)

31 Teen girls don't dress as nicely as whores.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 03:03 AM (X/4E9)

32 Chained CPI is a lie which I am against.  Why do I say that?  Because the CPI has always been a lie as it misstates the actual rate of inflation.


Right now the lying Obmanites are saying inflation is around 7 to 8 percent.  It is closer to 20%, especially on food.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:04 AM (YowqD)

33 DAY 393 1,068 to go (1,139 to Inauguration Day 2017) Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Mau-Maus, MFM's, Moochelle, McCain's, McConnell's, McAuliffe's, MIRV's, mutants, malcontents, malthusians, maniacs, malignant medical mandates, martial law, miscreants, maladjusted masochistic multiculturalists, momzers, mamalukes, mooks, mopes, mariuoli, meeskeits, maricons, marauders, malodorous militants, menstruating mons veneri and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:04 AM (olDqf)

34 Hello rons. Up early for job orientation. Hmm. You mean she got tired of being passed around at dem cocktail parties like a pocket vagina? "people who were like me: very progressive-minded politically but also very conservative theologically.” “the media is not the most Christian-friendly place in the world for the most part, at the same time, a lot of these Christians bring it on themselves.” OOps read the article, she's still a whore.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:06 AM (XIxXP)

35 The idea that, according to McConnell, the GOP must defeat the conservatives proves beyond any doubt that that party is the enemy, same as the Democrat-Socialists. Take it back or take it down. No alternatives.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:06 AM (olDqf)

36 Warren's a marxist, the closest thing since H. Stuart Hughes ran in '62, DeBlasio in a skirt, I know goggles do nothin; ahead of time,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 03:06 AM (Jsiw/)

37 There's a kitten fight going on in my personal airspace. One of them just used my face as a launching pad and met the other mid-air in their classic Kirk-Spock type battle that still rages down by my feet.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 03:06 AM (ZshNr)

38 Coehlo Speaks has some long and interesting posts (one and two) about the future of the GOP and whether a "transformative realignment" is coming. This is an area ripe for speculation (certainly, we see enough comparisons of the GOP to the Whig Party these days) and I encourage you to read it, but not because I think it's necessarily correct.


For the future of the GOP see post 26.  There is no future as long as people like Bitch McConnell are in charge.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:07 AM (YowqD)

39 For the future of the GOP see post 26. There is no future as long as people like Bitch McConnell are in charge. Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:07 AM (YowqD) Amen. and WTF is a Coehlo?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:08 AM (XIxXP)

40 LOVED that NFL 1961 starting QB photo in last night's ONT. Ass-kickers, the lot of them!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:08 AM (olDqf)

41 The attempt to tie our current situation to three prior unusual revolutions in U.S. politics relies on extraordinary circumstances that don't exist here -- an actual revolution (aka the Civil War), the Great Depression and subsequent Second War, and the Vietnam War.


Perhaps one day Gabe will read some history.  The so-called civil war was not a revolution as nobody in the South wanted to depose the government in Washington.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:08 AM (YowqD)

42 Or... voters will realize that they were lied to and "free" stuff is never really free. This is particularly galling when they learn THEY'RE the ones having to pay for the "free" stuff, as is the case now (or soon will be). Young voters were taken to the cleaners with obamacare; and if they haven't figured that out yet, they will by next year. You really think that very hard lesson won't stick with them for years to come? Because I kinda think it will.

Posted by: elaine at December 02, 2013 03:09 AM (GNZ0/)

43 39 For the future of the GOP see post 26. There is no future as long as people like Bitch McConnell are in charge. Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:07 AM (YowqD) Amen. and WTF is a Coehlo? Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 07:08 AM (XIxXP) See mine @ 35. Coelho is Latin for "sky."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:09 AM (olDqf)

44

NY Cardinal Dolan does not like his shit sandwich after supporting universal healthcare since 1990.

 

Dolan is an asshole who should have been stripped of his cardinal's hat years ago.

 

That being said - no story today, 'rons and 'ronettes.  Got a lot of my own writing done, then had a couple of Makers Marks to celebrate.  Results are as one might imagine.

 

Hope you all had a lovely Thanksgiving.  I'm looking forward to any stories about slapping down Obot relatives during the feast.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 02, 2013 03:10 AM (zF6Iw)

45 The Tea Party is that force, which was suppressed by the Administration, and derided by Top Men, or did you forget, that paper that upends the 'conventional wisdom' about the Huntress's impact on that pitiful campaign, that the likes of Ford O'Connell, use as a credential is worth noting,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 03:11 AM (Jsiw/)

46 See mine @ 35. Coelho is Latin for "sky." Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:09 AM (olDqf) Oh, OK. I thought it was latino for some kind of unnatural sex act.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:12 AM (XIxXP)

47 Young voters have short attention spans like the LIVs.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 03:12 AM (X/4E9)

48 Populism isn't one give away after another. The Republican party could use a little populism. A flat 10% tariff, a halt to virtually all immigration for about 20 years (tighten labor markets and help raise wages), defend the borders, and far less adventures abroad.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 03:12 AM (crkWb)

49 42 You really think that very hard lesson won't stick with them for years to come? Because I kinda think it will. Posted by: elaine at December 02, 2013 07:09 AM (GNZ0/) A lesson can only be learned when the one who made the mistake is actually shown that he made that mistake and how. AND how to correct it. We do not have a political party or movement that is giving that lesson, save for people like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. And a media/culture/academia that stands in the way ain't no help either. But maybe, just maybe, this will sink in.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:12 AM (olDqf)

50 Coelho is Latin for "sky". ---- And Portuguese for "rabbit".

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at December 02, 2013 03:13 AM (KUUWO)

51 46 Oh, OK. I thought it was latino for some kind of unnatural sex act. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 07:12 AM (XIxXP) That would be "coehlo-lingus." And I always got a kick out of the airline Air-Lingus. Sort of like what Gene Simmons used to do at Kiss concerts, no?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:13 AM (olDqf)

52 A lesson can only be learned when the one who made the mistake is actually shown that he made that mistake and how. AND how to correct it. Any lessons I have ever learned came with pain. Massive soul crushing pain. Otherwise I can call it an abnormality or someone elses fault. I can rationalize the FK out of any mistake on my part. I am human.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:15 AM (XIxXP)

53 44 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 02, 2013 07:10 AM (zF6Iw) Dolan ain't no Cardinal Cooke or Bishop Sheen, that's for sure. Good morning, good morning to you, MP4! (channeling Gene Kelly and Debbie Reynolds)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:15 AM (olDqf)

54 That would be "coehlo-lingus." And I always got a kick out of the airline Air-Lingus. Sort of like what Gene Simmons used to do at Kiss concerts, no? Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:13 AM (olDqf) By golly, I think your right. But then I guess it's too early to explain the blood.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:16 AM (XIxXP)

55 The party today, would go with that young upstart John Connelly, or Howard Baker, why rustle up trouble with the likes a Reagan,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 03:18 AM (Jsiw/)

56 Okay, just what the hell is the difference between Partly Cloudy and Mostly Sunny? This meteorological shit is some sort of dodge, am I right?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:18 AM (olDqf)

57 You really think that very hard lesson won't stick with them for years to come? Because I kinda think it will. If we can't spank them any more, maybe some self-inflicted pain in their wallets might get their attention. There's one thing children excel at: rebellion. Give them enough oppressive government and at some point, they'll say "Enough." If we had a real opposition party, we'd be blaming the Dims for the shitty economy and everything else it causes, because it's the truth. "Don't have a decent job with a future? Thank a Dim. Can't move into a place of your own or buy a new car? Thank a Dim." The GOP could be all over this, if they chose to. The fact that they aren't is telling. They like big government and want to control it and us.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 02, 2013 03:18 AM (0HooB)

58 Okay, just what the hell is the difference between Partly Cloudy and Mostly Sunny? Attitude.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:18 AM (XIxXP)

59 55 The party today, would go with that young upstart John Connelly, or Howard Baker, why rustle up trouble with the likes a Reagan, Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 07:18 AM (Jsiw/) Please, if the GOP could run Bob Michael it would.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:19 AM (olDqf)

60 "WaPoo's Goldfarb" is a dimwit.

Lieawatha Warren isn't riding the wave of some New Trend. She is the embodiment of Massachusetts politics, where the cure for everything is Moar Gubmint Money to be spent -- by a big, heavily-staffed agency -- on Free Shit.

Remember: Ted Kennedy, Jawn Kerry, Bawney Fwank, etc., etc., etc. They are the norm here, not exceptions or Strange Mutations. They win big on election day, and have hordes of noisy supporters.

If you aren't here soaking up the bullshit, it's hard to understand how ingrained liberalism is in this state. This may be the only place that approaches California levels of knee-jerk lefty reactions guiding everything.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 02, 2013 03:21 AM (csjXD)

61 Any lessons I have ever learned came with pain. Massive soul crushing pain. Otherwise I can call it an abnormality or someone elses fault. I can rationalize the FK out of any mistake on my part. I am human. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 07:15 AM Which is why I said what I did above. Young voters got royally screwed and will bear a lot of the costs of obamacare. Many are already saddled with massive college debt they can't get out from under and having to work crappy, low-pay jobs. Add to that massive health insurance premiums. This will hurt them a lot. The party that promised free birth control is making them pay a buttload of money for all that "free" stuff. If they can't see which party screwed them on this deal, then we've lost this nation; so kiss it goodbye.

Posted by: elaine at December 02, 2013 03:21 AM (GNZ0/)

62 The current Republican leadership believes that their future lies in two directions.  (1) Generate up 20 million new voters for the Democrats from the illegals in the country and (2) eject those awful conservatives from the Party.



They are one step away from being abandoned by most of those awful Republicans.  I will vote in the Primary next year, and possibly in 2016.  But  am not guaranteeing any more votes for "electable moderates" who never get elected and only stab us in the back when they do.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:21 AM (YowqD)

63 Okay, just what the hell is the difference between Partly Cloudy and Mostly Sunny? ---- Optimists' days are Mostly Sunny, pessimists' days are Partly Cloudy. Like the half-empty/half-full glass. Of course, morons just say the glass is full---of DOOM! and want to let it burn.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at December 02, 2013 03:23 AM (KUUWO)

64 If they can't see which party screwed them on this deal, then we've lost this nation; so kiss it goodbye. Posted by: elaine at December 02, 2013 07:21 AM (GNZ0/) I think the pain comes when these kids drain the parents 401K, there is no one to pay the bills and they lose the comfort of the basement.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:23 AM (XIxXP)

65 "Obama has lost the WaPo. They say he is lying about the Iran deal." Now see, these sorts of comments trigger my compulsion to click through to the comments section knowing I'm going to be dumbfounded by the stupidity. Can't...stop...

Posted by: Adolf H. at December 02, 2013 03:24 AM (D1w3d)

66 #51 *chuckle* Morning all. Mini moron slow to get up this morning. Days off from school makes for a grumpy kiddo. Starting to see the drug violence expand here. First murder case for Palmhurst, down around McAllen. Drug cartel related. Welcome to the new century, Palmhurst get used to it.

Posted by: SAT Rose at December 02, 2013 03:24 AM (TRCPu)

67 whoops, off nasty little sock

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 02, 2013 03:24 AM (D1w3d)

68  >>> Perhaps one day Gabe will read some history. The so-called civil war was not a revolution as nobody in the South wanted to depose the government in Washington. Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:08 AM (YowqD) That was a stupid and gratuitous insult, Vic. General Washington and the rest of the founding fathers weren't trying to depose King George either. That doesn't mean it wasn't a revolutionary war. 

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 02, 2013 03:26 AM (c2hk0)

69 Whew, couldn't readily find the direct WaPo link.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 02, 2013 03:26 AM (D1w3d)

70 Oh and I saw no evidence of massive black Friday crowds in my wanderings Friday through Sunday. We live kinda sort've close to a big mall here in town anchored by a Bass Pro Shop. All was pretty normal.

Posted by: SAT Rose did not shop at December 02, 2013 03:27 AM (TRCPu)

71 OK, I gotta go get ready for my first day at the new job. Y'all have fun and try not to trash the place, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at December 02, 2013 03:27 AM (0HooB)

72 68  That was a stupid and gratuitous insult, Vic. General Washington and the rest of the founding fathers weren't trying to depose King George either. That doesn't mean it wasn't a revolutionary war.�

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 02, 2013 07:26 AM (c2hk0)


It is only stupid and an insult if you believe the Northern written history which is not correct.


It was not a civil war or a revolutionary war. It was several States saying they had had enough and were executing their option to nullify the contract that the North had decided not to follow 50 years previously.



And guess what, Washington is still not following it.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:29 AM (YowqD)

73 #68 Ouch Gabe ! Wrong side of the bed this morning?

Posted by: SAT Rose comments at December 02, 2013 03:29 AM (TRCPu)

74 I suppose if you wanted to nit-pick, the Revolutionary War was an insurrection with the aim of independence and not with the intention of overthrowing the crown. That would be kind of hard from 3,000 miles away in the 18th century.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:29 AM (olDqf)

75 Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 02, 2013 07:26 AM (c2hk0) Vic's right, your wrong. Put down "History for Libtards" Paperback. The south didn't fight to conquer, they fought to be left alone. It was after all the war of northern aggression.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:30 AM (XIxXP)

76 #67, BackwardsBoy -- The simple truth of the matter is that everyone who aspires to a career in "public service" is a curious blend of greedy welfare recipient and spinster schoolmarm. They desire, quickly adapt to, and then demand royal treatment for themselves; it is their right to have servants, palaces and all the amenities of the Good Life, because they Work So Hard For Us.

And of course they believe that their status gives them some special wisdom denied to us proles. They know what is right for us, know that we can't manage to live without their guidance. We are immature and uneducated  children for them to mold.

There is not a single member of Congress who wouldn't sell us down the river in return for personal gain. Not one. It is not only a failure of character (though they are not good people), it is a twisted sense that we are unworthy and they are the ultimate products of our system, favored by G*d to rule.

Every person holding an elective job in D.C. should be removed from office, and all their appointees should be fired. No one outside the District of Columbia would notice any ill effects from that.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (csjXD)

77 The problem doesn't begin nor end with trampy clothing.  Girls (and boys) are not being brought up to respect their bodies, and  the need to protect themselves from the bad consequences of early sexualization.

If you see teenagers in trampy clothes, chances are it's too late to reverse the trend. 

Posted by: BurtTC at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (BeSEI)

78 Went to see The Book Thief yesterday.

All these children dressed in their NAZI school uniforms singing like a church chorus about how great Germany is and how it will break free of the shackles and against Jews. It is Kristalnacht and the SA are shown dragging Jews out of their homes and being brutalized.

Rudi, the 'boy with the lemon colored hair,' has a puppy dog infatuation with Liselle but he grows into being her best friend. He is a sprinter who sees nothing wrong in wanting to be like Jesse Owens so daubs himself in black polish that leads to him being hauled to his parents by a neighbor. And his father Alex is reduced to telling him why he can't be like Jesse Owens is because the father says so.

At one point Rudi thinks of running away - 'See I am prepared!' as he holds up a bulging knapsack, Liselle answers 'probably has your soccer ball.' So him and Liselle are at a lake all alone and they scream "I hate Hitler!" before eventually going back home

Rosa, played by Emma Watson - you won't recognize her, is 'the woman wrapped in thunder.' She is gruff and with a sharp tongue but you find as the movie goes on its because she cares too much for her husband Hans and eventually Liselle.

Hans, the painter who refuses to join the NAZI party. The NAZIs finds out one of his neighbors is really a Jew. They are dragging the man into a car. As everyone else stands there as the man screams he is a good German, Hans rushes to try and help his friend. He is knocked violently to the curb. Later at home as Rosa tries to mend his wounds, Hans breaks down at the kitchen table crying and wondering what had he done. Later Liselle tells him he had merely done what people do.

And there is Max. A Jew on the run after Kristalnacht. Hans owes a life debt to Max's family. Max's father died in WWI instead of Hans. One night after Max regains some of his strength he and Liselle are in the bedroom upstairs. Max sleeping in the bed that would have been where Liselle's brother slept if he had not died. And they are giggling imaging letters to Hitler from his mother. Both have lost their mothers - Liselle's had given her up because she could not care for the girl. And when the SA came for the Jews on Kristalnacht, a friend helped Max escape but he had to leave his mother.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (ofljX)

79 I would say that the revolutionary war truly was a revolution because the colonists were deposing the royal governors in each of the colonies.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (YowqD)

80 So per Vics comments if we the people rise up this time it would really not be a "war"??? Just a random flash mob?

Posted by: SAT Rose getting popcorn out at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (TRCPu)

81 Well, whatever you want to call that war, I blame Bush. And teh Jooz.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:31 AM (olDqf)

82 And guess what, Washington is still not following it. Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:29 AM (YowqD) I can't believe he sticks around after throwing stink bombs in our room.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:32 AM (XIxXP)

83 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 02, 2013 07:31 AM (ofljX) OK AP, do I take the daughter to see this or is it Bullshit?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:33 AM (XIxXP)

84 81 So per Vics comments if we the people rise up this time it would really not be a "war"??? Just a random flash mob?

Posted by: SAT Rose getting popcorn out at December 02, 2013 07:31 AM (TRCPu)


I did not say it wasn't a war.  I said it wasn't a revolution.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:34 AM (YowqD)

85 One of the things that Ronald Reagan is famous for saying is that he did not leave the Democratic Party - the party left him when it veered off to the left.


I am wondering if there is not a similar phenomenon currently going on in the Republican party if that Mitch McConnell thinks that the priority ought to be driving conservatives and TEA party activists out.  Of course, he is being targeted by them for the primary so that is likely to influence his thinking on the matter so what he says should probably be taken with a grain of salt.


Nevertheless, with the folks who gave us two "moderate, electable candidates"  in 2008 and 2012 firmly in control of the Republican Party now pushing Chris Christie for a hat trick in 2016, I am wondering if there is any point in my continued participation in the Republican Party.  The difference between Chris Christie and Bill DeBlasio is really a matter of subtle distinction from what I can see and I don't know why it would be worth the effort to go to the polls to vote for somebody like that.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at December 02, 2013 03:34 AM (BcCwi)

86
Obama has no shame as he sends out a picture of himself sitting in the Rosa Parks bus. What exactly has this asshole done for "blacks" besides turn race relations back 100 years?


http://tinyurl.com/no9q45p

His narcissistic need to inject his ugly face into -everything- notwithstanding, keeping the country divided racially works in the left's favor, and is being pushed intentionally. Expect much more of this as the 2014 elections draw closer. 

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at December 02, 2013 03:34 AM (0IhFx)

87

EPA, IRS, HHS, DHS

 

 

Four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Posted by: Beefy at December 02, 2013 03:34 AM (bUmSq)

88 #85 Oops! Okay got it now Vic! Thanks!! Still can it be a random flash mob thingie?? Because the twentysomethings have no clue they might have to fight in a revolution to win back their country. They are happily going down the pathway to Hell. Accompanied by their Xboxes and PS4s.

Posted by: SAT Rose getting it straight at December 02, 2013 03:36 AM (TRCPu)

89 Vic, by that standard, the American Revolution wasn't a revolution because it didn't want to depose the British government.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 03:36 AM (crkWb)

90 90 Vic, by that standard, the American Revolution wasn't a revolution because it didn't want to depose the British government.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 07:36 AM (crkWb)


As I said, they were deposing the royal governors of the individual colonies.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:37 AM (YowqD)

91 And guess what, Washington is still not following it.

Obama has united the country through heavy handed use of unconstitutional and illegal force and thuggery.

Just like Lincoln.

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 03:38 AM (5ikDv)

92 About the only difference between Chris Creosote and Bill De Bolshevik (™) is that the latter hates America and what it stands for, and is open about it or at least does not deny it. The former is just a crook who wants to utilize power for his own enrichment and ego. He loves America about as much as Michael Corleone.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:38 AM (olDqf)

93 @90: That's correct, the American Revolution wasn't a true revolution for exactly that reason.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 02, 2013 03:38 AM (102Hx)

94 As I said, they were deposing the royal governors of the individual colonies.
Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:37 AM

Not a bad plan for today, Vic-meister.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 02, 2013 03:39 AM (csjXD)

95 So.  We have a great opportunity here with the Left shedding the working class.  The Dems could be split in half if we could convince the working class that the Free Shit army is their enemy.

However, we appear to be too busy breakup apart as well.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 03:39 AM (V70Uh)

96 I read that story about that Ohio squatter rat-scum. How in the world would you be able to track people being away from their homes for an extended period vs. just away for a weekend or a week's vacation. Odd.

Posted by: ghostofhallelujah at December 02, 2013 03:39 AM (XvrTA)

97 Well kids, must do something today I havn't done since June 2008. No not that....... Go to work. Later.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at December 02, 2013 03:40 AM (XIxXP)

98 P.S.

Let's not rehash the American Civil War.    Please.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 03:41 AM (V70Uh)

99 96 So. We have a great opportunity here with the Left shedding the working class. The Dems could be split in half if we could convince the working class that the Free Shit army is their enemy. However, we appear to be too busy breakup apart as well. Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 07:39 AM (V70Uh) With so much manufacturing, mining and other industrial occupations being forced overseas, there won't be much of a working class Reagan Democrat base left before too long. If there still is.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:41 AM (olDqf)

100 The Dems could be split in half if we could convince the working class that the Free Shit army is their enemy. My understanding is that the blue collar Ohio voters who stayed home on 2012 were waiting for R-money to make precisely that case and prove he was actually different from TFG. He didn't, of course.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 02, 2013 03:41 AM (102Hx)

101 Morning!

.....................
This will hurt them a lot. The party that promised free birth control is making them pay a buttload of money for all that "free" stuff.

If they can't see which party screwed them on this deal, then we've lost this nation; so kiss it goodbye. Posted by: elaine
..................

And this should be the message of every Republican up for election next year.  "It ain't free if you are paying for it up front!"

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 03:42 AM (b/lt+)

102 Houston educator slammed for saying some of the HS girls dress like hoes. Well, do they? http://tinyurl.com/pjlzywx Posted by: Vic Hoes sue for defamation. "We would lose customers if we dressed that skanky!" Good morning, children of the Revolution. What's with all that verbiage in the post?

Posted by: mindful webworker - tllll;dih2r? at December 02, 2013 03:42 AM (YLiN/)

103 99 P.S. Let's not rehash the American Civil War. Please. Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 07:41 AM (V70Uh) I blame the slaves. And Neil Young for "Southern Man."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:42 AM (olDqf)

104 Modern elections are poo-flinging contests

If only they were that dignified.



His narcissistic need to inject his ugly face into -everything- notwithstanding, keeping the country divided racially works in the left's favor, and is being pushed intentionally.

Stamping the Dear Leader's face on -everything- for his subjects to fear or worship as appropriate is a time-honored tactic.  And effective, right up until he finds himself hanging upside down after being dragged through the streets.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 03:42 AM (hO8IJ)

105 Well OSP.  I went to a 12:55 screening on a Sunday.  And there was not a single teen or child in the seats.  As the credits rolled everyone was still in their seats and some where making quiet comments on how good it was.

So I am not sure if that answers any of your questions.  I have seen reviews that say it is watered down.  But the fear of discovery runs throughout the book.  Rosa is constantly telling Liselle to never say a word.  Even inside their house she is afraid one of the close by neighbors like Rudi's parents might learn they are hiding someone.

The book Liselle rescues from the book burning is H.G. Wells' The Invisible Man.  It is still smoldering when Hans finds her and starts taking her home.  He asks if she is okay because she is coughing.  The book is still on fire and from under her coat see these little puffs of smoke come out and choke her.  Hans finds out what she did, puts the book out, hugs her, and says they must never mention this.  And that book is the first one Liselle reads to Max.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 02, 2013 03:43 AM (ofljX)

106 105 Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 07:42 AM (hO8IJ) You make my mouth water. Good morning, NSA minders!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:44 AM (olDqf)

107 I'd like to see a targeted philosophical assault on the feel-good Dem voters who think they're 'helping the poor and downtrodden' with every liberal vote. Make them question that and see that the government doesn't solve problems and only perpetuates them and you'll break the 'compassion' vote.

Posted by: --- at December 02, 2013 03:44 AM (MMC8r)

108 Here's my not at all thought through position on realignment.


Party loyalty will begin to dissipate as large cities collapse.   After all, in many cities, you had to be a reliable Democrat in order to keep that sweet, sweet city/county job.   Well see re:  Detroit.   Once the machine doesn't keep up its part of the bargain, there's no need to play the game.


Of course, that doesn't mean flipping to the other side.   I am concerned that the response of those losing such sinecures will be to seek out a party that guarantees they will get them back. 

Posted by: alexthechick - Really Universe Really? at December 02, 2013 03:44 AM (Gk3SS)

109 Looking back at history the upcoming election in 2016 could follow the "corrupt bargain" election of 1824.  In that election there were 4 major candidates and the election was thrown into the House of Representatives.


The "bargain" was that Clay told his followers in congress to vote for Adams and they made him President despite the fact that Calhoun got more electoral votes.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:44 AM (YowqD)

110 Good morning, NSA minders! We've just cracked this week's password for the Brazzers mainframe. You guys don't merit the kind of attention you think.

Posted by: Jim, your NSA minder at December 02, 2013 03:45 AM (102Hx)

111 103 Hoes sue for defamation. "We would lose customers if we dressed that skanky!" Good morning, children of the Revolution. What's with all that verbiage in the post? Posted by: mindful webworker - tllll;dih2r? at December 02, 2013 07:42 AM (YLiN/) Remember when hoes and spades were garden tools?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:46 AM (olDqf)

112 Let's not rehash the American Civil War. Please.

It's sort of like a team-building exercise around here, since we can't go out for paintball. 

Refighting WWII is more fun, though, because we're all on the same side.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 03:47 AM (hO8IJ)

113

@14.  "Stores say they had recored crowds in the stores this weekend but nobody was buying anything."-Vic

 

I remember back in the Carter years when the president would not light the national Christmas tree.  And the economy sucked.  Charities were hit hard by parents trying to get presents for their kids.  Churches had recored numbers of people getting free Christmas meals.  Yeah, this president has a lot in common with Carter.  Thanks, 52%.

 

Good Morning, Evening Shade, Arkansas!

 

Posted by: Case at December 02, 2013 03:47 AM (o00SF)

114

>>Chained CPI is a lie which I am against. Why do I say that? Because the CPI has always been a lie as it misstates the actual rate of inflation.


Right now the lying Obmanites are saying inflation is around 7 to 8 percent. It is closer to 20%, especially on food.

.

.I could agree with a Chained CPI for Social Security if they quit playing games with "core" inflation.  Put everything in the mix, yes even the chicken, and chain it to that.

Posted by: Registered Voter at December 02, 2013 03:47 AM (nUbHY)

115 111 Good morning, NSA minders! We've just cracked this week's password for the Brazzers mainframe. You guys don't merit the kind of attention you think. Posted by: Jim, your NSA minder at December 02, 2013 07:45 AM (102Hx) Let me know when you get the password for the lactating transexual midget lesbian grannies.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:47 AM (olDqf)

116 113 Refighting WWII is more fun, though, because we're all on the same side. Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 07:47 AM (hO8IJ) "And that's Uncle Joe, he's a'moving kinda' slow at… Stalingrad?"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:49 AM (olDqf)

117 Refighting WWII is more fun, though, because we're all on the same side. Also more opportunities to randomly yell "Steiner!"

Posted by: Ian S. at December 02, 2013 03:50 AM (102Hx)

118 The story about the Educator telling the girls not to dress as "hoes" was funny.  If she had told the girls not to dress like "prostitutes", she would have been accused of "talking white" and some of  the girls would not have understood the word.  She made sure that she was understood.  If you are taking flat, you must be over the target.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 03:50 AM (V70Uh)

119 More indications that we are headed into a mini-ice age -Vic "Mini" -- maybe for short term, but if they haven't changed geologic records since I was in college, chances are strong that we're still on the cooling side of the 25,000-year ice ages cycle, so expect those 'mini' down spells to never quite warm back up as much for a few generations....

Posted by: mindful webworker - need a geologist to know which way the wind blows at December 02, 2013 03:50 AM (YLiN/)

120 The current model simply isn't working, and I think the voters are starting to get pretty hacked off at both sides, because no matter who they put in charge, problems don't get solved.  The political class doesn't want to solve the problems, though.  Just look at the mileage that the Democrats have gotten out of making sure that no Republican can touch Social Security.  Once you solve a problem, you can't use it as an issue in the next election.

Posted by: Cato at December 02, 2013 03:51 AM (J+mig)

121 "These persuadable voters aren't ideological. They're not going to settle on one party and then stick for decades."

This is the crux of the problem, but for reasons other than Gabe's.

A non-ideological voter is a voter not tethered to a political philosophy, and one who is incapable of voting based on anything other than a shallow and hazy image of what his candidate de jour will provide.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 03:51 AM (oJ5Fd)

122 With so much manufacturing, mining and other industrial occupations being forced overseas, there won't be much of a working class Reagan Democrat base left before too long. If there still is.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton
..............
I agree we are losing tons of jobs to other countries.  And regulations can perhaps account for some small part of it.  But most of this is done willingly.  Foreign workers, while less productive, simply charge less for their labor.  A lot less.

Obamacare will worsen this trend.  But up til now, I think, it has mostly been the draw of cheap labor.   Cost of labor does include payroll taxes, medicare, etc..  But those costs have been fixed for many decades.  China, South Korea, etc. have simply come into their own as labor providers.

The problem with Obamacare is that foreign labor was starting to increase in costs and some manufacturing and assembly was starting to come back.   The labor cost O'Care adds has squashed that trend.

So, I wouldn't say "forced" as much as the gov't is not helping one bit.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 03:52 AM (b/lt+)

123 I do think there is a new political wave brewing, yet I don't think it benefits republicans as presently constructed. Were I not on a phone I would speak more towards that. Suffice to say for now that it may not benefit dems either, except by default. And that the tea party is of little consequence in the long term.

Posted by: Bigby's Thumb at December 02, 2013 03:52 AM (1gyVd)

124 Over at Breitbart, Allen West warning about the price of ammo skyrocketing as the EPA forces a lead smelter to go out of business in Missouri. Back door gun control, as promised by Barack Mussolini. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/01/Allen-West-EPA-Engaging-in-Backdoor-Gun-Control

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:53 AM (olDqf)

125 And speaking of "history" I went to check something in my Walter Edger history of SC book the other day and it is missing.


Evidently I loaned it to someone and I don't remember who.  It will cost $31 plus shipping to replace it. 

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:53 AM (YowqD)

126 Refighting WWII is more fun, though, because we're all on the same side.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 07:47 AM

What you mean "we"?

Posted by: Isoruku Yamamoto at December 02, 2013 03:53 AM (csjXD)

127 >>Party loyalty will begin to dissipate as large cities collapse. After all, in many cities, you had to be a reliable Democrat in order to keep that sweet, sweet city/county job. Well see re: Detroit. Once the machine doesn't keep up its part of the bargain, there's no need to play the game. Already starting to happen in Chicago where the unions are going after the incumbent Dems for trying to unwind the unworkable pension plans. >>Of course, that doesn't mean flipping to the other side. I am concerned that the response of those losing such sinecures will be to seek out a party that guarantees they will get them back. I'm actually not as concerned about this on the national level. It's the same challenge the Republican party has been facing, first with Libertarians and now the Tea Party. Neither of the spinoffs is big enough to win nationally and Republicans aren't strong enough to win without them.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 02, 2013 03:54 AM (g1DWB)

128

>>>Just look at the mileage that the Democrats have gotten out of making sure that no Republican can touch Social Security. Once you solve a problem, you can't use it as an issue in the next election.

.

.

.Social Security if fixin to solve it's own problems in the near future.  Say about 2023 per the last SS projections is nothing changes.

Posted by: Registered Voter at December 02, 2013 03:54 AM (nUbHY)

129 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:53 AM (olDqf)


No need to go to BB, I covered it at 23.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 03:55 AM (YowqD)

130 That's pretty thin gruel there Vic. The South was overthrowing the legitimate authority of the Federal government. Hence, it can be termed a revolution. Now, before you go off on your Southern revisionism, I am just going to say that for the sake of peace on pixy, that is all I am going to say on the subject. However, I am tired of your constant bomb throwing about the Civil War and your slanted view of the subject. All of those wonderful Southern states rights/nullification people were pretty upset when several Northern states violated the fugitive slave acts. I guess it only worked one way. Simply put, the Civil War happened because the South acted like a bunch of children when they lost a presidential election. Lincoln wasn't even in office and they seceded. They fired the first shot. They were the first to introduce conscription. They also violated habeas corpus and suppressed the pro-Northern press. So, simply put, you are welcome to your incorrect opinion, but I prefer not to hear it here unless you want to get it thrown back at you every time.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 03:55 AM (crkWb)

131 123 So, I wouldn't say "forced" as much as the gov't is not helping one bit. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 07:52 AM (b/lt+) And then there is the EPA. To say nothing of OSHA, the NLRB, ICC, BLM and the IRS. Overseas/illegal alien labor is cheap because of the above. And when the illegals become legal they won't be working for peanuts anymore. Surprise!!!! National minimum wage!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:56 AM (olDqf)

132 I blame the slaves. And Neil Young for "Southern Man."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:42 AM (olDqf)

One of his better songs.

http://tinyurl.com/26gj2rj

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 03:56 AM (oJ5Fd)

133 130 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:53 AM (olDqf) No need to go to BB, I covered it at 23. Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 07:55 AM (YowqD So you did, Vic. The problem with all your great posts is that there are too many to take in at once. Like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:57 AM (olDqf)

134

@104. - "And Neil Young for "Southern Man"."-J.J.Sefton

 

Well, it's like Lynyrd Skynyrd said- "Shove it up your ass, Neil."

Posted by: Case at December 02, 2013 03:57 AM (o00SF)

135 !35th! I'm sure I will be 139 after I post this!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 02, 2013 03:58 AM (Cdwx/)

136 The problem with Obamacare is that foreign labor was starting to increase in costs and some manufacturing and assembly was starting to come back. At the same time, it's become a big thing with hipsters to make stuff in the US. This often happens mostly/entirely with robots in order to largely avoid the various ways Dems have ruined things with respect to hiring people, but the customers don't care as long as it says "Made in the USA".

Posted by: Ian S. at December 02, 2013 03:58 AM (102Hx)

137 I just knew it!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 02, 2013 03:58 AM (Cdwx/)

138 133 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 07:56 AM (oJ5Fd One of the ones of his that I don't like. But, to each his own.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 03:59 AM (olDqf)

139 "The tea party stole my mojo," said a random democrat slob.

Posted by: Things you will live to hear at December 02, 2013 03:59 AM (xAwpo)

140 131  However, I am tired of your constant bomb throwing about the Civil War and your slanted view of the subject.



The find somewhere else or don't read them.  Especially since everything you wrote there is BS.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:00 AM (YowqD)

141 Hey my wifes ma (Chinese) just got her green card! Wooo hooo! Bite me illegal aliens who never want to follow the rule of law!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 02, 2013 04:00 AM (Cdwx/)

142 /raises hand Let's see...Thailand and the Ukraine are boiling, Iraq is teetering, Syria is a big ole Lebanon, Libya is a slightly smaller Lebanon, Iran is Iran, Egypt is unanimously annoyed with the U.S., China is Japan circa 1931, Japan is Japan circa 1905, Venezulea is going down the tubes, and North Korea is still cray cray. Meanwhile, we're broke, we're at the mercy of a media that thinks the root problem of Obamacare is a faulty website, we're willfully ignoring the economy, we're probably going to have to choose between a Clinton and a Bush, and we're having trouble supressing all those memories of normalcy like budgets and laws. At least it's still 1963 and all this is just because of racism.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:00 AM (659DL)

143 One of the ones of his that I don't like. But, to each his own.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 07:59 AM (olDqf)

Oh, I'm not a big fan of him at all. I listen very infrequently, and at the end of 15 or 20 minutes I question why I liked him in my teens and 20s.

Although....I saw him live at The Greek Theater in Berkeley in the mid-1980s, and the performance was great.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:01 AM (oJ5Fd)

144 I really like Allen West.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 04:01 AM (olDqf)

145 47 Young voters have short attention spans like the LIVs. Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 07:12 AM (X/4E9) That's because many of them have been brought up in amoral environments, where mommy and daddy didn't know the word no. Also, it's a result of our current instant-gratification society. Morning, 'rons.

Posted by: DangerGirl at December 02, 2013 04:01 AM (bxpf3)

146 Especially since everything you wrote there is BS.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:00 AM (YowqD)

Then refute it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:02 AM (oJ5Fd)

147 The South drew first blood.  They attacked Sumter.  It was all downhill  from there, and only a matter of time before they would be conquered.

Call it whatever you want, but it's folly to romanticize an action that was doomed from the start. 

Consequences happen, and if you are going to start a Civil War, have a plan that has a chance of succeeding, and stick with it.  Otherwise sure, the other side is going to get to write the history books. 


Posted by: BurtTC at December 02, 2013 04:02 AM (BeSEI)

148 143 Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 08:00 AM (659DL) Now if we can only get Billy Joel to put that into a songÂ… Win!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 04:03 AM (olDqf)

149 Call it whatever you want, but it's folly to romanticize an action that was doomed from the start.

Aber...Steiner!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 04:04 AM (hO8IJ)

150

126 Vic

 

"Evidently I loaned it to someone and I don't remember who."

 

Always loan books with the resignation you will probably never see it again.  My humble opinion while looking at my depleted personal library.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 04:04 AM (xAwpo)

151 Little known fact: The longest straight section of railway track in the U.S. runs from Hamlet, NC to Wilmington, NC.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 02, 2013 04:05 AM (aDwsi)

152 I really like Allen West.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 08:01 AM (olDqf)

Walker/West 2016

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:05 AM (oJ5Fd)

153 Consequences happen, and if you are going to start a Civil War, have a plan that has a chance of succeeding, and stick with it. Otherwise sure, the other side is going to get to write the history books.

I totes agree.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at December 02, 2013 04:05 AM (5ikDv)

154 And then there is the EPA. To say nothing of OSHA, the NLRB, ICC, BLM and the IRS.

Overseas/illegal alien labor is cheap because of the above. And when the illegals become legal they won't be working for peanuts anymore. Surprise!!!! National minimum wage!!! Posted by: J.J. Sefton
..................
Yes.. of course all those agencies add to the cost of labor.  But would you do away with OSHA?  Would you do away with ALL labor safety laws?  Do away with child labor laws?

Would you have our skies filled with the soot and crud they were filled with in the 60's and 70's?

All of these agencies have gone too far and are now out of control.  But, most labor-related laws are based on principles Americans, in the main, are in favor of.  And, yes, they add to the cost of labor.

The countries that put 10 yr olds in factories and spew soot into their air so bad you can't see a block are the ones taking our jobs.  "Free Market" at work, right?

Some would argue we should charge a tariff to make up for these differences.  But it would only increase the costs to the consumer, not really force reforms in those countries.  And Americans loves them some cheap goods.. look no further than "Black Friday" sales.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 04:05 AM (b/lt+)

155 Always loan books with the resignation you will probably never see it again. My humble opinion while looking at my depleted personal library. Posted by: Buckeye Abroad ----------------- That annoys me no end. I have had it happen many times. I have taken to putting a sticky note inside the cover with my name, address and telephone number, just as a reminder.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 02, 2013 04:07 AM (aDwsi)

156 The flipped script on the Civil War is a pet project for many historians. It also has a conveniently profitable niche in the publishing industry, meaning there will always be "Southerners as perpetual victims" books and articles coming out. Frankly, the Japs bitch less and we nuked their asses.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:07 AM (ZshNr)

157 On the other subject: 1. Slavery was wrong. Period. Any discussion of Southern actions before, during, and after the Civil War has a really high normative hurdle to clear because of that. 2. Davis, Lee, and the Confederate leadership were every bit as inept in most respects as the Union brain trust. Plus, they had no real chance because it was a really uneven match. 3. If you will read Shelby Foote's entire three volume set, it really does come down to those two points.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:07 AM (659DL)

158 Ok.. off to work.. have a good day all!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 04:08 AM (b/lt+)

159

Hey it's the way, China and Russia, are doing it, emulating our own 'robber barons', thanks a lot Josephson, Do you think this country was built on clean energy, heck no, it was built on coal and steel.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 04:09 AM (8sqvd)

160 "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary...

Guess Lincoln and Obama had the same view on that ragged old piece of paper. 

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:10 AM (5ikDv)

161 @ 148, BurtTC, From my limited understanding of civil war history, I think the South just wanted to break away and be left alone. So they fired on Fort Sumter. They did not want to conquer the North. They just wanted a clean break. But it was not well thought out. All the manufacturing base was in the North. So the North came after them like a jilted abusive boyfriend and exacted the revenge. Fast forward t 2013...How much manufacturing left up North now ? Its all Non-Union manufacturing concentrated down south. I think its time to start whistling Dixie again!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 02, 2013 04:10 AM (Cdwx/)

162 Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 08:07 AM (ZshNr)

And that revisionism never addresses the South's "Peculiar Institution."

Sorry Vic, but the South kept human beings in bondage. You have no moral authority to criticize the North's conduct of the war, or the political situation leading up to it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:11 AM (oJ5Fd)

163 147  Then refute it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:02 AM (oJ5Fd)




BION the first shots were not fired at Ft Sumpter (look it up)


Civil War happened because the South acted like a bunch of children


Stupid comment

when they lost a presidential election. Lincoln wasn't even in office and they seceded.


They had already said BEFORE the election if he won they were leaving AND every State in the union at the time believed that session was a right of the States.  The South was, in fact, not the first area to talk about session because they disagreed with the national government.  Look up the Hartford Convention.


They came close to seceding in 1850 over the unequal and unfair Tariffs of Abomination in which the South was funding 75% of the federal government for building railroads in the North.


They fired the first shot.


First shots were fired in FL by invading Northerners long before Ft Sumpter.  And the Ft Sumpter episode was a tactic by Lincoln to start the war.


They were the first to introduce conscription.


Has nothing to do with the subject here.


They also violated habeas corpus and suppressed the pro-Northern press.


Did they jail 2,000 newspaper editors and the entire State delegation of any State as Lincoln did?





Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:11 AM (YowqD)

164 @157

So Southern Americans = Japanese.


Good to know.

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:11 AM (5ikDv)

165 "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary... Guess Lincoln and Obama had the same view on that ragged old piece of paper. Counterpoint: That "piece of paper" does not oblige the other side to let go peaceably, now does it?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:12 AM (659DL)

166 156  That annoys me no end. I have had it happen many times. I have taken to putting a sticky note inside the cover with my name, address and telephone number, just as a reminder.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at December 02, 2013 08:07 AM (aDwsi)



I have those in all my books already but I still will probably never see that book again.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:13 AM (YowqD)

167 Yes, they did, but then again it took fools like Fuller and Grey, to forget that fact, and greenlight Jim Crow, and they were not Southerners,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 04:14 AM (8sqvd)

168 What part of the word "please" don't you understand?

Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 04:14 AM (V70Uh)

169 Ok, see y'all later.

Posted by: DangerGirl at December 02, 2013 04:15 AM (EYfcP)

170 Jim DeMint caused the Civil War. Gleeglefurg biddity splurn.

Posted by: Alvin Greene at December 02, 2013 04:15 AM (JDIKC)

171

@156 Mike Hammer

 

"That annoys me no end. I have had it happen many times. I have taken to putting a sticky note inside.."

 

 

Good luck with that.  I spent my youth mulling through used book stores.  I used to write my name inside the cover.  Once visited an old acquintnace, pulled a book off his bookshelf and saw where he crossed my name out and replaced it with his own.

 

 

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 04:16 AM (xAwpo)

172 Fort Sumter was blockaded, ships fired upon before Lincoln was inaugurated, by months. The South fired on US resupply ships while Buchanan was still President. If that's part of your argument, you should probably get the basic timeline correct.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:16 AM (ZshNr)

173 That was a stupid and gratuitous insult, Vic. General Washington and the rest of the founding fathers weren't trying to depose King George either. That doesn't mean it wasn't a revolutionary war. Posted by: Gabriel Malor Depends in what the definition of 'revolt' is. -B Clinton Let's you & him fight. - Wimpy I for one have never heard the recent unpleasantness referred to by anyone as a revolution. Gabe adds new meanings to our vocabulary because he's a giver. ____ Let's not rehash the American Civil War. Please. Posted by: Jimbo Um, you haven't been around AoSHQ long/much? Wars get rehashed frequently here. With my erratic history knowledge, I appreciate the education.

Posted by: mindful webworker - need a geologist to know which way the wind blows at December 02, 2013 04:16 AM (WgBz9)

174 Before I post this, I am not a bot, I am a certified Grade A moron. UNIQLO has some great Cyber Monday deals (dress socks for $1) http://goo.gl/ShgfES change "mens" to "womens" in the url to see women's deals

Posted by: Jose at December 02, 2013 04:16 AM (zc/sw)

175 Morning all. What ever this tread is about is way to cerebral for an early Monday AM

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 04:18 AM (t3UFN)

176 Or... voters will realize that they were lied to and "free" stuff is never really free. This is particularly galling when they learn THEY'RE the ones having to pay for the "free" stuff, as is the case now (or soon will be). Young voters were taken to the cleaners with obamacare; and if they haven't figured that out yet, they will by next year. You really think that very hard lesson won't stick with them for years to come? Because I kinda think it will. Posted by: elaine at December 02, 2013 07:09 AM (GNZ0/) Last night, I read an article about how the voters had agreed to raise the minimum wage at Sea-Tac airport to $15/hr. It was sold as a minor expense for the airlines to cover. I commented that it was easy for the taxpayers to agree to something like this if they believed that they wouldn't be paying for it. A libtard replied back asking what the taxpayers had to do with it. When I explained that, one, the taxpayers had voted for it and, trwo, the taxpayers would end up on the hook either through higher ticket prices or parking or concessions or taxes to make up any shortfalls that the airlines didn't cover, I never heard another word. "There is all the difference in the world, however, between two kinds of assistance through government that seem superficially similar: first, 90 percent of us agreeing to impose taxes on ourselves in order to help the bottom 10 percent, and second, 80 percent voting to impose taxes on the top 10 percent to help the bottom 10 percent -- William Graham Sumner's famous example of B and C decided what D shall do for A. The first may be wise or unwise, an effective or ineffective way to help the disadvantaged -- but it is consistent with belief in both equality of opportunity and liberty. The second seeks equality of outcome and is entirely antithetical to liberty." Milton Friedman

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at December 02, 2013 04:18 AM (nj9sX)

177 The Republican party could use a little populism. A flat 10% tariff, a halt to virtually all immigration for about 20 years (tighten labor markets and help raise wages), defend the borders, and far less adventures abroad.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 07:12 AM (crkWb)



This sounds like some of the dumbass pandering that BOR does.  I understand the need to restore some level of respect for the citizens of the country as to be contrasted to the sucking up that the JEF does to illegals but getting away from free market principles continues the scams that we've been stuck in for too damn long.  That includes the Repukes and their crony capitalism.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 02, 2013 04:20 AM (kEIun)

178 Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 08:16 AM (xAwpo) And?

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 04:20 AM (gHDMy)

179 When the new england states wanted to secede in 1812, the Southern States response was, take your happy asses on then.  Because they had the right to secede, if they wanted.

Posted by: Case at December 02, 2013 04:21 AM (o00SF)

180 Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:11 AM (YowqD)

Probably the first shots were fired at the supply ship(s) going to Ft. Sumter. I think it was cadets at The Citadel who fired.

The Hartford Convention? Give me a break. You are cherry-picking. It was dominated by moderates. Very few people ever considered secession, and even fewer took it seriously.

The other stuff is misdirection.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:22 AM (oJ5Fd)

181 Counterpoint: That "piece of paper" does not oblige the other side to let go peaceably, now does it?

Nope.

Point is Lincoln couldn't be king without resources. The South's resources. His deification is as ridiculous as Obama's.

Slavery was dead already. It is a childish joke to say that hyper-prescient Lincoln rode in to free the slaves from the mean old meanies in the South. It helps lincolntf sleep so enjoy whatever fable gets you through the night.

The South took the same path as the American Revolutionaries and the North successfully stopped multiple states from exercising their rights under the Constitution.

And then played the " free da slaves" ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY CARD .


Lincoln was a greedy tyrant. Follow the money. 

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:22 AM (5ikDv)

182 A tariff you say, could we get someone from Utah, and someone from the South, to front it, that always works out. (I'm guestimating where Hawley was from,)

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 04:22 AM (8sqvd)

183 The only rights you have are those that you can enforce. Ergo, the South did not have the right to secede from the Union. And their cause was the worst one for which men had ever taken up arms. Louisiana boy. We're not all living in some romantic dream of a past that never was.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 02, 2013 04:22 AM (JDIKC)

184 Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 08:18 AM (t3UFN)

THE JETS SUCK!

FIRE REX RYAN!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:24 AM (oJ5Fd)

185 Yeah, noone, you really nailed that. You still sad because great-great-great Granny was reduced to sucking cock for pinto beans after Sherman rode through?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:24 AM (ZshNr)

186 Gleeglefurg biddity splurn.

Posted by: Alvin Greene at December 02, 2013 08:15 AM (JDIKC)

I bet spellcheck played hell on that post.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 04:25 AM (gHDMy)

187 THE JETS SUCK! FIRE REX RYAN! Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:24 AM (oJ5Fd) yeah what can I say. Go Yankees!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 04:25 AM (t3UFN)

188 Hey how about them Knicks?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 04:26 AM (t3UFN)

189 "And their cause was the worst one for which men had ever taken up arms."

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 02, 2013 08:22 AM (JDIKC)

Not much else to say.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:26 AM (oJ5Fd)

190 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:22 AM (oJ5Fd)


The first shots were fired at Ft Baracus (?) in FL  contrary to popular myth.  Of course the North claims the South fired the first shots there too. 


The Hartford Convention was called specifically to discuss secession.


Is it cherry picking when I show the NE wanted it first.  They only backed down because the war of 1812 was essentially over before they finished.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:26 AM (YowqD)

191 I commented that it was easy for the taxpayers to agree to something like this if they believed that they wouldn't be paying for it.

Usually I assume it's the non-taxpaying voters signing the taxpayers up, because they know they definitely will not be paying for it, but places like Seattle it's kind of blurry.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 04:26 AM (hO8IJ)

192 Interesting point of view , lincolntf.

You still mad because with an 8 year headstart Magic Underpants couldn't manage to beat EEObama?

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:27 AM (5ikDv)

193 Last week, a BIG libtard I know went on a rant about a website. He complained that he refused to do business with any site that made him provide a bunch of personal information before it would show him the price of the item he wanted. I said, "you mean like HealthCare.gov?" He didn't seem to think that was too funny.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at December 02, 2013 04:27 AM (nj9sX)

194 And then played the " free da slaves" ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY CARD .

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 08:22 AM (5ikDv)

Why yes! That's called an Ace High Straight Flush.

Unless you disagree with the proposition that slavery is an absolute evil.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:28 AM (oJ5Fd)

195 Tariffs make as much sense today as supporting high speed stagecoaches.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:28 AM (659DL)

196 However, I am tired of ... your slanted view of the subject. .... Simply put, the Civil War happened because the South acted like a bunch of children ... -Chris Glad Vic is the only one with a slanted view.

Posted by: mindful webworker - from a state that was not involved at December 02, 2013 04:29 AM (7KxSm)

197 The Hartford Convention was called specifically to discuss secession.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:26 AM (YowqD)

No it wasn't.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:29 AM (oJ5Fd)

198 Hawley was from Oregon, probably a top men of his day. the RFC was the TAARP of it's day, for all they good it did.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at December 02, 2013 04:29 AM (8sqvd)

199 Unless you disagree with the proposition that slavery is an absolute evil.

Lincoln NEVER made that statement. The North did not believe that statement.

The South was potentially shutting down the cheap , slave made goodies that the North was rejecting and boycotting...

oh wait...

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:29 AM (5ikDv)

200 Ft. Barrancas where Southern militia demanded the Fort be surrendered to them and soldiers in the fort fired some warning shots. They eventually abandoned the fort for an easier to defend fort. It happened the night before Sumter was bombarded. That is your defense Vic? A few warning shots in defense of a Federal fort the night before Sumter. Yeah, I know about all of the discussion about secession options. That doesn't change the fact that it isn't in the Constitution and a contract without a separation clause is prone to acrimonious results. Conscription does have a point here. Just like pointing out the South violated habeas corpus just like the North. The South wasn't some region of angels fighting the demonic North. They were just as willing to break certain rules to achieve their goals.

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 04:30 AM (crkWb)

201 By the way I don't know who that movie "Star" was who died in that car accident the other day, but I am kinda sick and tired about how his fan's are lionizing him. He and his pal were obviously driving illegally and speeding as if their "fame" gave them that right?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 04:30 AM (t3UFN)

202 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:28 AM (oJ5Fd)


The problem is by Lincoln's on statements he did not start the war to "free the slaves".  He said that many times. 


Slavery would have died out with a lot less animosity within a few more years as it really had gotten to be an unprofitable enterprise.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:30 AM (YowqD)

203 155 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 08:05 AM (b/lt+) Jerry: Of course I would not do away with any REASONABLE laws. But I think that it is now evident that these agencies exist to stifle, stymie and intimidate anyone who comes under their purview. See Vic's link to the story at Breitbart about how the EPA is kicking up standards by orders of magnitude to force a lead smelter out of business (they'd need to spend $100 million dollars to retrofit) so that they can now destroy ammunition manufacturing in the States. Back door 2nd Amendment nullification. And then as you know, there's the IRS. Besides, there are laws on the books in each state that deal with all the issues that these federal agencies deal with, so it's a redundancy that usurps the state's authority. Plus, I believe in the civil society; to wit, that most people and institutions will do the right thing because a) it's the right thing to do and b) it's in their self-interest to do so. I believe in the rule of a just law, administered justly. I do not believe in tyranny by bureaucracy which is what we have right now.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 04:30 AM (olDqf)

204 Holy shit some of you guys are perpetually cranky. It's the morning after a great 4 day weekend and this place is in full fuck you mode by 8:30. Lighten up you bunch of Francises.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 02, 2013 04:31 AM (g1DWB)

205

The attempt to tie our current situation to three prior unusual revolutions in U.S. politics relies on extraordinary circumstances that don't exist here -- an actual revolution (aka the Civil War), the Great Depression and subsequent Second War, and the Vietnam War.

 

 

 

The  Great  Depression  will  seem  mild  when  the  debt  bomb  that  has  been  growing  worldwide  goes  off.  By  the  back  of  the  envelope  math  it  looks  to  exceed  the  last  depression  by  a  factor  of  three. 

 

 

Or  you  can  choose  to  believe  that  massive  bubbles  in  every  asset  class  can  continue  forever  despite  the  lessons  of  history. 

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 02, 2013 04:31 AM (rXcBX)

206 ........"These persuadable voters aren't ideological"........
Lifted from the morning screed. Translation - these voters have no sense of any values except what they perceive of as their momentary self-interest. They're the mob, in other words, and getting their vote involves promising them shit, and making them believe you have delivered on your promise.

Posted by: tubal at December 02, 2013 04:31 AM (YEQ2h)

207 "113 Let's not rehash the American Civil War. Please. It's sort of like a team-building exercise around here, since we can't go out for paintball. Refighting WWII is more fun, though, because we're all on the same side. Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 02, 2013 07:47 AM (hO8IJ)" Except for Joe Kennedy - who was a NAZI sympathizer. And FDR, who through his inaction and choice of fronts allowed half of Europe to become a communist hell hole for 50 years. Why is it that democrats area always on the wrong side, always liking our enemies and their totalitarian philosophies more than Liberty? Never mind, we already know that answer....

Posted by: Brendan at December 02, 2013 04:32 AM (8YVZT)

208 My Shariah Moor started his new job on Saturday and no one has seen him since. Perhaps he's being held and forced to service young starlets? Maybe, we should go rescue him before it's too late?

Posted by: The Commenting Software at December 02, 2013 04:32 AM (kkbgQ)

209 From Wiki

Despite radical outcries among Federalists for New England secession and a separate peace with Great Britain, moderates outnumbered them and extreme proposals were not a major focus of the debate



NE was calling for Session.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:32 AM (YowqD)

210 So we're talking about the Civil War here? Well there are some real nice restaurants in Charlestown.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 02, 2013 04:33 AM (t3UFN)

211 Time for a new topic as we have once again exhausted this rehash.


And please note that I did not start this one.  Gabe started it in the main post. My comment was that it was NOT a revolution. But once again it just opened the flood gates.

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:36 AM (YowqD)

212 Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:30 AM (YowqD)

You are correct that Lincoln saw the secession as more than just a slavery issue. But slavery was by far the most contentious issue the country had ever seen, and to pretend otherwise is silly. States Rights is vitally important, but come on.

Thomas Sowell has written extensively on the economic underpinnings of slavery, and the ultimate failure of any society that uses slave labor.

But should we have waited? How long? 20 years? 100 years? 152 years?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:36 AM (oJ5Fd)

213 Better get the dump up quick.

This thread is gonna disintegrate and take everybody with it.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 04:36 AM (gHDMy)

214

@147 Golfman

 

You mean what happened next?  Embarassment on his part after pointing it out and "he letting me have my property back." 

 

Point is most people tend to be lazy about giving back low value items after they receive them and conveniently forget where they came from.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 04:37 AM (xAwpo)

215 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:36 AM (oJ5Fd)



I never said any of that. You are arguing with yourself.  I said that LINCOLN said the war was not being fought to "free the slaves".

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:38 AM (YowqD)

216 Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:32 AM (YowqD)

Wiki is crap. But even Wiki supports what I said.

Moderates vastly outnumbered the few radicals who even wanted to discuss secession.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:38 AM (oJ5Fd)

217 204 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 02, 2013 08:05 AM (b/lt+) Further to my longish post, the regulatory state is unelected and yet they pump out tens of thousands of regulations every year that have the force of law behind them. They have no constitutional authority to do this - we did not elect them and they cannot be fired, and yet here we are. If we're going to have laws, let's let those whom we elect pass them, if that is the will of the people. The EPA alone is a leftist rogue agent that is destroying our economy and forcing a warped social-engineered plan down our throats against our will. HUD is planning to relocate many of us to massive urban centers, taking away our cars and our mobility. The coal industry is being shut down. And then there's Obamacare - nationalizing our health care and insurance sectors. This is NOT law. It is law-fare. They use the laws and our system against us and with the courts packed with hacks in black robes, we're fucked.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 04:38 AM (olDqf)

218 Read my book n I will show you how to win a revolutionary war in modern America. Hint: nukes.

Posted by: Earl Turner at December 02, 2013 04:38 AM (VrVBw)

219

@182. noone.  That was a really good post.  Lincolntf had to resort to name calling.  The truth hurts.

 

Bet Grant didn't think after he won the war he would have to free his slaves.

Posted by: Case at December 02, 2013 04:39 AM (o00SF)

220 I'm more worried about zombies than the civil war. Still can't believe you can talk a group of people into attacking another group with women and children on the sole claims of a stranger to your group.

Posted by: The Commenting Software at December 02, 2013 04:39 AM (kkbgQ)

221 Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 08:37 AM (xAwpo)

Awkward, I'm sure.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 04:39 AM (gHDMy)

222 Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 08:38 AM (YowqD)

Secession--->War.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:40 AM (oJ5Fd)

223 It was Lee's foolhardy use of crossbows against the Union's longbows that doomed the Southern cause.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at December 02, 2013 04:40 AM (Q8Wa9)

224 So, we are relitigating the Civil War now? The HQ....where everything old is new again. Could be worse. DELAWARE SENATE.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:41 AM (659DL)

225 Secession is still being bandied about by radicals in New England. Vermont still manages to get it on the ballot once in a while. Back in the Eighties, some town/neighborhood in Greater Boston tried to secede and found the nation of "Mandela", I've always figured Obama would've been in that movement if the timing was right.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:41 AM (ZshNr)

226 Further to my longish post, the regulatory state is unelected and yet they pump out tens of thousands of regulations every year that have the force of law behind them. They have no constitutional authority to do this - we did not elect them and they cannot be fired, and yet here we are. If we're going to have laws, let's let those whom we elect pass them, if that is the will of the people. The EPA alone is a leftist rogue agent that is destroying our economy and forcing a warped social-engineered plan down our throats against our will. HUD is planning to relocate many of us to massive urban centers, taking away our cars and our mobility. The coal industry is being shut down. And then there's Obamacare - nationalizing our health care and insurance sectors. This is NOT law. It is law-fare. They use the laws and our system against us and with the courts packed with hacks in black robes, we're fucked. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 08:38 AM (olDqf) Yep. The federal courts and the Greens (code for commies) managed to kill agriculture in the Central Valley.

Posted by: The Commenting Software at December 02, 2013 04:41 AM (kkbgQ)

227 *pops head in, sees Civil War, exits quietly*

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 02, 2013 04:42 AM (zDsvJ)

228 Vermont still manages to get it on the ballot once in a while. On that one--who would notice?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:42 AM (659DL)

229 New topic


Obama is giving $600M to cronies in the railroad.  Where is the press? (other than Fox)


http://tinyurl.com/o8o7w4h

Posted by: Vic at December 02, 2013 04:42 AM (YowqD)

230 A straight tariff isn't crony capitalism. We aren't going to have a manufacturing base left at this rate. All those service and support jobs will disappear as well. You do realize that Intel and AMD got to where they are today because the US created a massive import tax on foreign micro chips through the 80's and I believe some of the 90's?

Posted by: Chris at December 02, 2013 04:42 AM (crkWb)

231 I use name calling because I don't take him seriously. Or anyone else who can't discuss history without all sorts of emotional, political baggage woven into it. Useless shit.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:42 AM (ZshNr)

232 Bet Grant didn't think after he won the war he would have to free his slaves.

Posted by: Case at December 02, 2013 08:39 AM (o00SF)

Learn some history.

He freed his slaves (I don't know if he had many...maybe just one) before the war.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:43 AM (oJ5Fd)

233 I hate Mondays with a f*cking passion.  Especially when coming off a long holiday weekend. 

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 04:43 AM (DrWcr)

234

182  noone, really

 

"Lincoln was a greedy tyrant. Follow the money."

So what was his cut?  Could you put that in monetary terms or tangible assets?

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at December 02, 2013 04:43 AM (xAwpo)

235 I thought Han shot first.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 04:44 AM (X/4E9)

236 JJ

Regulations with comments due within the next 90 days at regulations.gov  - 1,054

Pretty much sums it up, don't you think?

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 04:44 AM (gHDMy)

237 Bacon.  Boobehs.  Beer.  Discuss.

Posted by: NC Ref at December 02, 2013 04:44 AM (Myqtp)

238 I thought Han shot first.

Posted by: NCKate at December 02, 2013 08:44 AM (X/4E9)

 

Yes he did, and no amount of revisionist history by George f'n Lucas or anybody will ever change it.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 04:45 AM (DrWcr)

239 Happy 2nd Day of Advent to those people in churches which celebrate that season. A ninth century hymn that is still popular is "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" It was translated by Rev. John Mason Neale-an Anglican Priest. Neale was strongly in his sympathies, and had to endure a good deal of opposition, including a fourteen years' inhibition by his bishop. Neale translated the Eastern liturgies into English, and wrote a mystical and devotional commentary on the Psalms. However, he is best known as a hymn writer and, especially, translator, having enriched English hymnody with many ancient and mediaeval hymns translated from Latin and Greek. The lyrics echo a num­ber of pro­phet­ic themes. The ti­tle comes from the well known Isai­ah 7:14: “Be­hold, a vir­gin shall con­ceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Im­man­u­el.” Im­man­u­el is He­brew for “God with us.” The “Rod of Jesse” refers to Isai­ah 11:1: “There shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jes­se”; Jesse was the fa­ther of Da­vid, se­cond king of Is­ra­el. “Day-Spring” comes from Za­cha­ri­as, fa­ther of John the Bap­tist, in Luke 1:78: “The day­spring from on high has vis­it­ed us.” “Thou Key of Da­vid” is in Isai­ah 22:22: “The key of the house of Da­vid will I lay up­on his shoul­der,” which in turn re­fers to Isai­ah 9:6 “The gov­ern­ment shall be up­on His shoul­der.” A lovely modern version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgTBugqbHc. Grace and peace be with you. Happy Hanukkah to our Jewish friends here and may God bless and protect the State of Israel.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 04:45 AM (BC6cY)

240 Bacon. Boobehs. Beer. Discuss.

Posted by: NC Ref at December 02, 2013 08:44 AM (Myqtp)

 

I think you have them listed out of order, in terms of importance.  Boobehs come first.  Always.  Let bacon and beer slug it out for second place.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 04:45 AM (DrWcr)

241 I have been around here long enough to know that nobody changes anyone's mind regarding the Civil War.  You might as well be arguing longbows vs. crossbows.


Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 04:46 AM (V70Uh)

242 Bacon. Boobehs. Beer. Discuss.

Posted by: NC Ref at December 02, 2013 08:44 AM (Myqtp)




What are three things that make a moron's day perfect?



Posted by: EC at December 02, 2013 04:46 AM (GQ8sn)

243 Make that Neale was "strongly high church" in his sympathies.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 04:46 AM (BC6cY)

244 FenelonSpoke, your upbeat spirituality is always a breath of fresh air. 

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 04:46 AM (DrWcr)

245 Posted by: NC Ref at December 02, 2013 08:44 AM (Myqtp)

Bacon: I approve wholeheartedly, but prefer thick over thin.

Boobehs: shape is far more important than size.

Beer: Yes.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:46 AM (oJ5Fd)

246 Posted by: Jimbo at December 02, 2013 08:46 AM (V70Uh) Yep; I always check out when these arguments start.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 04:47 AM (BC6cY)

247 Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 08:45 AM (DrWcr) Eh, they aren't unrelated. My wife loves bacon....so..yeah you see where this is going.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at December 02, 2013 04:47 AM (GaqMa)

248

Bacon: I approve wholeheartedly, but prefer thick over thin.

 

Wright brand bacon FTW.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 04:47 AM (DrWcr)

249 The South had the purest of motives, which is why when the Southern States got some semblance of self-rule back, they promptly reverted back to as close to slavery as possible, enacting utterly racist laws for which there was no "historical" excuse.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:47 AM (ZshNr)

250 Yes he did, and no amount of revisionist history by George f'n Lucas or anybody will ever change it.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 08:45 AM (DrWcr)



I remember seeing the version where Greedo shot first before I was ever aware that this was a scene involved in some dispute (to put it lightly).  Much later on in life, when I heard that Han had shot first, I thought I was mistaken so many years ago when I had clearly seen Greedo shoot first.



Posted by: EC at December 02, 2013 04:48 AM (GQ8sn)

251 Happy Hanukkah to our Jewish friends here and may God bless and protect the State of Israel.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 08:45 AM (BC6cY)

Thank you!

If you are in Northern NJ in the next three days, join us for the lighting of our menorahs (Yeah...we light more than one....it's fun).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 04:48 AM (oJ5Fd)

252 Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 08:46 AM (DrWcr) Thanks, and I empathize with your Insomniac. tendencies. God bless you. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 04:48 AM (BC6cY)

253
"Southerners as perpetual victims" books and articles coming out. Frankly, the Japs bitch less and we nuked their asses."

You still sad because great-great-great Granny was reduced to sucking cock for pinto beans after Sherman rode through?

I use name calling because I don't take him seriously. Or anyone else who can't discuss history without all sorts of emotional, political baggage woven into it.




*snort*

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:49 AM (5ikDv)

254 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 08:48 AM (oJ5Fd) Anything with fire is fun! Even small amounts of fire!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at December 02, 2013 04:50 AM (GaqMa)

255 I'm not unpopular. Just misunderstood, that's all. I want what's best for La Revolucion.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at December 02, 2013 04:51 AM (Dwehj)

256 Fenelon -  That is one of my very favorite Christmas hymns.  God with us.





Posted by: mama winger at December 02, 2013 04:51 AM (P6QsQ)

257 MA electing Lizzie Warren is like Caligula putting a horse in the Senate.  We are doomed.

Posted by: End O' Times at December 02, 2013 04:52 AM (yhJhK)

258 @236

So what was his cut? Could you put that in monetary terms or tangible assets?

Sure. Half a nation's GDP for starters.

Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 04:52 AM (5ikDv)

259 Slavery was dead already? I'm sure this would have come as a huge surprise to those still living in slavery.



And we have lost more jobs to Robbie the Robot than we have to Chin the Chinaman. Look at farming, for instance. Due to heavy mechanization one farmer can now produce much more than his predecessors, and much of the remaining manual farm work is seasonal now.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 02, 2013 04:54 AM (yh0zB)

260 I came here looking for the War of 1812 Rehash Thread. Is this the right place?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 02, 2013 04:54 AM (D1w3d)

261 Dolly Madison was a thief!

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 04:55 AM (ZshNr)

262 254 Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 08:46 AM (DrWcr)

Thanks, and I empathize with your Insomniac. tendencies. God bless you. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 08:48 AM (BC6cY)

I have to say that I do appreciate your contributions to the blog, even though I, as an unrepentant hard determinist Calvinist, am light-years separated from your religious viewpoint (assuming your nic is referencing "that" Fenelon). Your positivism brightens up my dour fatalism, on lots of mornings!

Posted by: tubal at December 02, 2013 04:55 AM (YEQ2h)

263 A straight tariff isn't crony capitalism. A straight tariff in an economy where "foreign" is a meaningless concept is unworkable.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 04:55 AM (659DL)

264 Vlad called. I'm to thumb my nose and fart in the general direction of the Chinese.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at December 02, 2013 04:58 AM (Dwehj)

265 Also, a huge Hanukkah hug to all my Jewish friends!  Feast of Dedication blessings to you!

Posted by: mama winger at December 02, 2013 05:00 AM (P6QsQ)

266 Never let it be said that I'm not capable of decisive action.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at December 02, 2013 05:00 AM (Dwehj)

267 Never let it be said that I'm not capable of decisive divisive action.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at December 02, 2013 09:00 AM (Dwehj)




FIFY




And now, off to slumberland I go. Later roonz and roonettez, fear no evil.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 02, 2013 05:04 AM (yh0zB)

268 So the 'living wage' argument is being brought up again by the usual folks. Listen, if you want to bitch about your lot in life and that you aren't making enough don't use a single mother with four kids as your poster child okay.

Posted by: RWC at December 02, 2013 05:04 AM (fWAjv)

269
Today's celebrity birthdays:

John Breckinridge (US AG #5)
Georges Seurat (park pic)
Charles Ringling (circus acts)
Bill Erwin (Seinfeld and Seymour)
Maria Callas (http://youtu.be/A60tQ--67MY )
Alexander Haig (he's in charge, dammit)
Edwin Meese (US AG #75)
Harry Reid (he loves kids?)
Cathy Lee Crosby (where?)
Dan Butler (woof woof)
Lucy Liu (45 today)
Monica Seles (40 today)
Nelly Furtado (35 today)
Britney Spears (comeback?)

Posted by: Gran at December 02, 2013 05:04 AM (mw0FO)

270 Cold front's acomin'.

Posted by: Fritz at December 02, 2013 05:04 AM (TKFmG)

271 *wanders in* Yup. Boring fight remains boring. *wanders out*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 02, 2013 05:06 AM (VtjlW)

272 Hanukkah is a festival, celebrating a great victory and a miracle from G-d. May that same miracle deliver us, against all odds, from the forces of tyranny in our own land and abroad. Hag s'mayach and a Happy Hannukkah!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 05:07 AM (olDqf)

273 Posted by: Gran at December 02, 2013 09:04 AM (mw0FO)

...and Golfman in NC (experienced lurker - apprentice commenter @AoSHQ)

Posted by: Golfman in NC at December 02, 2013 05:07 AM (gHDMy)

274 272 Posted by: Gran at December 02, 2013 09:04 AM (mw0FO) I wanted to schtup Monica Seles. Hesitate to use the word sexy or pretty, but there was just something very appealing about her.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 05:09 AM (olDqf)

275

Honest question here, so don't jump on my ass.

 

For the argument that slavery was a dying institution and would have petered out without the civil war, were there any signs of it dying out in the South before the war started?  In the North, sure, but I mean in the deep South.  How was the writing already on the wall?

 

 

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 02, 2013 05:09 AM (eytER)

276 Happy Birthday, Golfman!

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone but Loves Birthdays at December 02, 2013 05:09 AM (e/SmK)

277 @276 Happy Birthday Golfman!


Posted by: Gran at December 02, 2013 05:10 AM (mw0FO)

278

I'm back.  That had to be the worst morning meeting I've ever been to.  Everything, and I mean everything was fucked up.  It's always great to get the CMO pissed off first thing in the morning.  And I can't even have a cup of tea, because I've got blood work this afternoon.

 

I really hate working for a living.  I should have been a Democrat.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 02, 2013 05:10 AM (zF6Iw)

279 If all of your money is going to your rent and your utilities, how do you feed yourself and your four children? I get food stamps. I get about $543 a month. Yep. No fucking sympathy from me whatsoever.

Posted by: RWC at December 02, 2013 05:10 AM (fWAjv)

280 Thanks, Tubal. Kind of you to say so. I'm not actually Roman Catholic. I just love the writings of Francis Fenelon and appreciate a number of Catholic mystics. Francis Fenelon was rather deterministic himself in the sense of God's sovereignity. If you mean that in the sense of predestination he doesn't remark on that, but Calvinists as well as Roman Catholics and other Christian can appreciate that he was quite firm about our relationship to God: "God is not satisfied by the sound of our lips, nor the position of our bodies, nor external ceremonies. What he asks is a will which will no longer be divided between him and any creature, a will pliant in his hands, which neither desires anything nor refuses anything, which wants without reservation everything he wants, and which never, under any pretext, wants anything which he does not want."

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 05:11 AM (BC6cY)

281 You're welcome, Mama Winger. It's one of my favorites too. I hope you had a lovely time away and a Happy Thanksgiving.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 05:13 AM (BC6cY)

282 Importation of slaves had been banned back in 1807, but 50 years later, slavery was still a major driver of their agricultural economy. Was it dying? Maybe it had a little cough.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 05:13 AM (ZshNr)

283 So the 'living wage' argument is being brought up again by the usual folks.

Listen, if you want to bitch about your lot in life and that you aren't making enough don't use a single mother with four kids as your poster child okay.

Posted by: RWC at December 02, 2013 09:04 AM (fWAjv)

 

The "living wage" argument is all bullshit designed to benefit the unions anyway.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 05:13 AM (DrWcr)

284 I am sitting in an ethics CE....can we go back to arguing about the mostly peaceful armed incident from 1860 to 1865....it was more interesting.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 02, 2013 09:13 AM (OWjjx)

 

Ethics CE?  What line of work are you in, if you don't mind my asking?

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 05:15 AM (DrWcr)

285 Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 09:13 AM (ZshNr)

I mentioned to Vic that Thomas Sowell wrote that it would fail eventually. But your point is valid. It didn't look like it was going anywhere in 1860.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 02, 2013 05:17 AM (oJ5Fd)

286 The "living wage" argument is all bullshit designed to benefit the unions anyway. It's a mange-ridden squirrel from the administration. ANYTHING to change the subject.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 02, 2013 05:18 AM (659DL)

287 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 09:07 AM (olDqf) Hello, Sefton I read the story of Hanukkah to my congregation yesterday. I think a number of them had heard of the miracle of the lamp for the oil but didn't know about Judah Maccabee-the "Hamme"r and his brothers and the fight against Syrian control of their land and faith. So interesting how the history of Israel repeats itself over the centuries. I have been earnestly praying for the country which gave us the prophets as well as Jesus.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 05:18 AM (BC6cY)

288

This "living wage" thing reminds me of a buddy of mine defending his thesis.

 

He did a lot of work showing that minimum wage hikes resulted in higher overall prices, especially for goods produced by low-skilled labor.  His thesis was that there is a cycle, where a minimum wage hike results in a new equilibrium.

 

The profs on the board asked him when, exactly, he could see the new equilibrium.  He said "it will exist when politicians start trying to buy votes with a new minimum wage hike."

 

He got his degree. 

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 02, 2013 05:18 AM (eytER)

Posted by: tubal at December 02, 2013 05:19 AM (YEQ2h)

290 I do tax law. Yes, it is boring, but it pays the college bills and the Catholic High School bills.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 02, 2013 09:16 AM (OWjjx)

 

Gotcha.  I practice law as well.  Not tax, though, although some of my best professors in law school were in tax. 

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 05:19 AM (DrWcr)

291 Friday, lunch, chomped on a corn chip and realized the hard bit was a piece of tooth. A big chunk of a tooth the dentist had drilled & filled just days before. That was annoying. Then I felt the broken tooth. Discussions here have mentioned how one fellow can take several mortal hits and keep coming, while others with non-fatal wounds die from shock. I believe the latter. I felt that hole in my tooth and passed out from hard shock. Took me a long time to wake up. When I did, finally, I realized I'd pissed myself, and even better in waking up I had flailed about and smashed a toe into my desk. Prob broken, prob lose the nail. Pity the Mrs who had to watch me in all that. Know why I'm so happy? 1. It didn't happen during Thanksgiving. 2. I live in the age of modern dentistry where I'll get maybe a nice crown that will last me the rest of my life. Can't imagine walking around with broken teeth like much of humanity historically probably has had to do. Did this long one induce the next post, as usual?

Posted by: mindful webworker - because I don't tweet at December 02, 2013 05:19 AM (Bfbpz)

292 Dump is ump.

Posted by: mama winger at December 02, 2013 05:20 AM (P6QsQ)

293 Did this long one induce the next post, as usual?

Posted by: mindful webworker - because I don't tweet at December 02, 2013 09:19 AM (Bfbpz)

 

Nah, the dump was up already.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 05:21 AM (DrWcr)

294 So the living wage argument is being brought up again by the usual folks. ----- In happy related news, I recently managed to finally pound it into someone's head that it is mathematically impossible for a minimum wage to be a living wage. The thing that finally worked was pounding on the daycare issue, since it's an easy transfer of money from one minimum wage worker to another. Somehow it clicked that a babysitter has to get one-third of the minimum wage from each family if she is to make min. wage herself while maintaining a ratio of 1 worker to 3 babies Unfortunately this just led to "daycare should be subsidized!" Still. I'm calling it mostly sunny. Of course, that

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone but Loves Birthdays at December 02, 2013 05:22 AM (e/SmK)

295 Well, Insomniac....don't tell Amish Dude. If he ask, tell him you play piano at a brothel.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 02, 2013 09:21 AM (OWjjx)

 

Heh.  Yeah, I know, it's far more respectable...

Posted by: Insomniac at December 02, 2013 05:22 AM (DrWcr)

296 Man, I take mini Moron to school and miss the whole Civil War thing! Ya'll have a good day back in the salt mines.

Posted by: SAT Roseback from kid run at December 02, 2013 05:25 AM (TRCPu)

297 Posted by: mindful webworker - because I don't tweet at December 02, 2013 09:19 AM (Bfbpz) Sorry for your trouble, MWW.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 02, 2013 05:25 AM (BC6cY)

298 a major driver of their agricultural economy.

The Holy Northern Empire enjoyed the bounty from that economy as well.

Except during the Great Northern Slavery Protests and Boycotts of 1800-1861, of course. 

Interesting use of "their".  Was great great grandpa a rapist carpetbagger? 


Posted by: noone, really at December 02, 2013 05:26 AM (5ikDv)

299 296 Did this long one induce the next post, as usual? 297 Dump is ump. Works every time. Nah, the dump was up already. Posted by: Insomniac Not when I started composing. So, that counts.

Posted by: mindful webworker - or facebook at December 02, 2013 05:27 AM (Bfbpz)

300 Book marks, etc. One of the best ideas I have ever seen came from a friend (refugee Iranian Jew), when he put the owner's name on the bottom of the clamped pages of a book. Couldn't cross it out or just tear out a single page -- it was across all the pages.

Posted by: Mustbequantum at December 02, 2013 05:28 AM (MIKMs)

301 New POST

saved by Ben!

Posted by: willow at December 02, 2013 05:28 AM (nqBYe)

302 Hag s'mayach and a Happy Hannukkah!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 02, 2013 09:07 AM (olDqf)

_______________________

Happy Hannukkah to you.  Yes, we need a miracle to turn this around.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 02, 2013 05:33 AM (32Ze2)

303

Lincoln said "The South had the purest of motives",

 

Yeah, and so did the North, right?

 

As a southerner, I'll agree that slavery was wrong.  As a jackass, will you agree that the resulting continuing, overbearing and unconstitutional growth of the Federal government caused by the North's win is a pretty stiff price to pay?

 

The North destroyed the Constitution in order to preserve the Union.  Now we have a country divided where its citizens HATE one another, with no recourse to solve the problem peacefully.

 

Some win, Yankee  

Posted by: FITP at December 02, 2013 05:39 AM (U/nWH)

304 @28 Hamlet, NC? Famous for what??? One of the largest RR switching towns in the nation. Still is. http://tinyurl.com/k2zgjho

Posted by: Nip Sip at December 02, 2013 05:40 AM (0FSuD)

305 In regard to the healthcare.gov web site, Mr. President
We know "you didn't build that" but that was part of your job.

Posted by: Warren's Chinese Buffet at December 02, 2013 05:41 AM (e8kgV)

306 Sorry for your trouble, MWW. -FenelonSpoke Thank you, FS. I am okay. I've certainly survived far worse. Wounding does reinforce the awareness of our fragility and mortality. It's a nice world to pass through, but I don't think I'll make it my permanent residence!

Posted by: mindful 'happy' webworker at December 02, 2013 05:43 AM (AMsS5)

307 263 I came here looking for the War of 1812 Rehash Thread.
Is this the right place?
Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 02, 2013 08:54 AM

264 Dolly Madison was a thief!
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 02, 2013 08:55 AM
You lost. Get over it.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at December 02, 2013 05:54 AM (4NEdy)

308 could it happen in a microcosm? For example, purple states turning red or blue? Red or blue states turning purple?

Posted by: Jeff at December 02, 2013 06:00 AM (MOSsR)

309 @ 259 Joe Biden, Does this mean we can now ditch the TSA as useless people who couldn't even qualify to hold a job at Mc'D's? And furthermore , can every household in the US be provided with a full auto AK like they let the camel bangers have in Iraq and Afghanistan? We Likey that down in Texas being the southern secede types we are.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at December 02, 2013 06:03 AM (Cdwx/)

310 Gabe's post reveals he is very much worried about transformative forces.

Posted by: eman at December 02, 2013 06:19 AM (AO9UG)

311 Considering Point 2: The Dems have indeed been the dominant party. Theirs the energy, the lockstep advances against civil and cultural liberties the GOP either outright embraced or refused to take a meaningful stand against. I call that political dominance. By now we have one two-tier political party -- the Statists -- with a rump caucus -- "the tea party -- which isn't a party at all.

Posted by: herbork at December 02, 2013 06:20 AM (t1s5e)

312 Thank you, Gabe. You're appreciated more than you know.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbitt, but you must call me Chelsea at December 02, 2013 06:42 AM (vVMIQ)

313

Malor wrote, "The attempt to tie our current situation to three prior unusual revolutions in U.S. politics relies on extraordinary circumstances that don't exist here -- an actual revolution (aka the Civil War), the Great Depression and subsequent Second War, and the Vietnam War. "

 

First off, extraordinary circumstances do exist because the traditional Democratic Party no longer exists. Its radical leadership is more or less a Marxist cabal intent upon the stealth authoritarian-socialist transformation of the country. Meanwhile, Republican Party leadership has deluded itself into thinking the back-and-forth pendulum swing between the parties is a perpetual motion machine, and are completely unable to cope with or understand these new 'transformative' Democrats. They are, in fact, behaving in a manner nearly parallel to the behavior of Whig Party leadership in 1852, and have forgotten their purpose as an opposition party. The situation is ripe for a GOP split.

 

Secondly, we face economic catastrophe. There's no avoiding it at this point, in my view, and whatever's going to happen will probably happen within the next three years, almost certainly while Obama is still president.

 

Lastly, the cadre of hardcore, old-school transnational socialists who are currently running the federal government have spent decades acquiring power by executing a march through the insitutions. They own or directly control most of the media, academia and all big city governments, most of which are notoriously corrupt. The entire voting process, at least on a national level, is now suspect. These are not the type of people to give up power as the result of free and fair elections.

 

So tell me, are these events 'extraordinary' enough for you?

Posted by: troyriser at December 02, 2013 07:03 AM (gNlvW)

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