1 Don't ask me, I'm not a Republican.

2 McConnell and Boehner need to make a rap video. /s. I got nothing.

3 It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem.

4 Put another way: why the hell would anyone want to join our party when we're so obviously miserable? When the largest voting block identifies as being conservative, and we nominate a candidate who -- upon close examination -- does not appear to be conservative, what do you expect? A happy dance?

5 What fresh hell will this day bring?

6 Good Morning Morons.  Today is Wednesday, March 20, 2013. On this day in 1919 Einstein published his General Theory of Relativity.   One wonders what would have happened if the “General Theory of Global Warming” had followed the same course.

7 It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem. It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem. It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem. It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem. It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem.

8 The press finds some headlines to help Democrats cut veteran benefits.

http://is.gd/LR2POy

9 Do you think you have gun rights because of the second amendment?  Think again.  And remember this, you have zero rights in family court.   And gun grabbers will use anything the law allows and then some.

http://is.gd/pmSSdk

10 see also; Einstein, Albert; definition of insanity

11 AmericaÂ’s 10 best beers.  This is why I think all polls suck.  Anything that assigns Bud Light a position other than piss bucket filler is bull shit.

http://is.gd/jPKggC

12 Your writing assignment is to figure out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public AND for GOP voters.

This is where noted blowhard Bill O'Reilly has a point.  It's about culture.  The GOP is always going to be a punchline because tye-dyed 60s hippies have made it their life's work to make it so.  They have corrupted the culture.

No one likes to be told to eat their peas - yet this is the function of the GOP, to be the adult in the room. 

So this is going to go on, until it all burns, and then the Great Re-Learning will occur.  I suggest you all stock up on liquor.

13 Worthless sucker of cock uses Marine deaths to attack “evil sequester”.  There is no limit to the hate I have for this evil SOB.

http://is.gd/gHIWRB

14 Yes, Boner is going to sell us out on Amnesty.  Hell why not, he does that on everything else.

http://is.gd/nbxnEE

15 We are starting to see some of CarlsonÂ’s  positions now.

http://is.gd/xWHRxq

16 OFA shows its non-partisan tax exempt bonafides.

http://is.gd/2F2aLS

17 AZ is in court fighting the corrupt DOJ on motor voter and vote fraud.

http://is.gd/VC0Svx

18 As expected Sanford wins primary for district 1 seat.  Be advised, this run-off is the election.

http://is.gd/zQUF48

19 The best American beer is Anchor Steam.

*crouches and prepares to fight*

20 How bad is Rand Paul?   The WaPo columnists support him.


http://is.gd/CMTT58

21 House GOP says it is closer to selling us out on amnesty.

http://is.gd/sRLDgP

22 It's an old story. Vietnam was just fine until Nixon was in charge. An electorate with daddy issues will assign all bad results to the daddy party. Also, MSM delenda est.

23 Democommies complain because the sequester is cutting their staff budgets.

http://is.gd/P1XFAv

24 I'm not miserable.

25 Why does the government pay people to take care of their relatives and children at home?   So unions can scam the money is why.

http://is.gd/xnMYAW

26 IBD is kinder to Republcan Party bosses than I am.

http://is.gd/9g69Hf

27 DAY 134 1,326 to go (1,401 to Inauguration Day 2017) Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Mau-Maus, MFM's, Moochelle, McCain's, MIRV's, mutants, malcontents, malthusians, maniacs, malignant medical mandates, miscreants, maladjusted masochistic multiculturalists, momzers, mamalukes, mooks, mariuoli, meeskeits, maricons, marauders, malodorous militants, menstruating mons veneri and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

28 Kindle Daily Deal


http://is.gd/k4wCtQ



And thatÂ’s it for March 20, 2013.

29 I'm not miserable. Posted by: NCKate at March 20, 2013 06:58 AM (OfPTF)

Kate, I need to send you that liberal Golden Oldie - the "If You're Not Outraged You're Not Paying Attention" bumper sticker.

For the children....

30 I'm on the road, so no links today. Your writing assignment is to figure out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public AND for GOP voters.



Why?  I am looking for a new non Democrat Party, not a Democrat lite Party.

31 I got it. Take over the media, take over the schools, take over the culture, purge the party and then, voila! Success. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

32 Best American beer on basis of value is Yuengling. There's a reason it's been around for a couple hundred years. Less then twenty dollars a case.

33 Sean, I'm paying attention, unfortunately. I'm just also keeping perspective.

34 Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 20, 2013 07:00 AM (tqLft

That's why I say that the shortest route is to let it burn.

People are stupid.  But when they're not working...and not eating....they get smart real quick.  At that point you won't need the Long March through the institutions.

35 There is a rather quick solution: which profession is universally unpopular? Lawyers. Who's the party of lawyers? Just sayin'

36 Your writing assignment is to figure
out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public
AND for GOP voters.

Make it more of a type of moderate Libertarian party and stop nominating people who wanna argue the legitimacy of rape. Oh and let's not just shit on everything people some guys on the radio told us to.

37 Sean, I'm paying attention, unfortunately. I'm just also keeping perspective. Posted by: NCKate at March 20, 2013 07:02 AM (OfPTF)

I hear you.  I get my perspective every morning at 6:30 Mass.

38 Hillary's in the Oval now, things will get better, don't worry.

39 A messaging problem,  Keep banging that monkey.  The same POS consultants that drove that fucking beater off the road stay employed with that line of garbage.

40 Still liking the "invade D.C." idea best. Party will get you nothing. It's them against us. It's the weasels guarding the chicken coop. It's "I will guard your daughter's honor. I have this huge cocked fashioned from Randy 'Macho Man' Savage's arm, and I will keep it unsheathed at all times when I'm with her." It's Michael Moore escorting and safekeeping pizza deliveries. It's...

41 My perspective is pretty basic: every morning I wake up, I've won.

42 cocked? COCK. DAMMIT!

43 Morning all. As I suffer through insomnia, please remind me it's a good thing I quit drinking. *puts head down on desk in exhaustion*

44 "Your writing assignment is to figure out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public AND for GOP voters."

My suggestions (in order of declining importance)

-Demonize the opposition
-Pick a message
-Stick to the (SAME) message, no matter what.

It works for the other side, we should be able to make it work for us.  Granted it's way easier for them since they have Hollywood and the media in their pockets...

45 Morning all....



Just heard on the news that one of the Marines killed in Nevada was from the town where we used to live.  He was a classmate of my daughter through grade school.  He did two tours in Afghanistan.


May he RIP and prayers to all the families.  So sad.....

46 AmericaÂ’s 10 best beers. This is why I think all polls suck. Anything that assigns Bud Light a position other than piss bucket filler is bull shit. http://is.gd/jPKggC this list is a joke

47 Messaging?  This is not the hill to die on.

48 22 -

It's pretty much that.  If you tell libs to trace the history of their favorite things, from environmental nonsense, to affirmative action, to  anti-capitalism, once they get to the source and find out it's Nixon, all they can do is scramble for excuses, and then find ways to pin it on Kennedy or Roosevelt or whomever. 

49 DangerGirl, don't know how far along you are in the process of letting go, but it does get easier. You will feel better, stronger, healthier...it's worth it.

50

Forget Frankenfeinstein's "assault" weapons defeat.  Last night Beck reported that the U.N. was finalizing a new arms treaty in NYC.  Word is he has enough senate dems to do a treaty deal, and of course, Obysmal will sign it.  The details were in turn fascinating and nauseating.

 

I know I sound like a commercial, but please consider subscribing to The Blaze TV.  His research staff ties stuff together that no one else does.  (One other tidbit, he asked them to look into gun ownership in Cyprus.  Handguns are illegal, but you can own a shotgun and TWO WHOLE SHELLS.)

 

And as Levin pointed out last night, we have seven dead marines, but the dogeater tweeted about Mooch and kids eating apples.  Whitney Houston's death got the flag at half staff.  Let's see if these troops get any kind of remembrance.

I'm out to the bus stop.

51 Is Ashley Judd in mourning since her Methcats lost to Robert Morris in the NIT first round?

52 No one likes to be told to eat their peas - yet this is the function of the GOP, to be the adult in the room. So this is going to go on, until it all burns, and then the Great Re-Learning will occur. I suggest you all stock up on liquor ammo. Fixed. If we are the adults in the room, what do adults do with unruly children? You whip their ass. Time outs are for pussies.

53 51 bless you, I wanted to point that out too.

54

Good morning, all. I had a very clever and witty off-topic post. I can't figure out how to post it. This will have to do instead. It had to do with phasers and a play on the word 'boob'. You all would have loved it.

 

 

 

So instead, I'll try to think of a meaningful response to the assignment.

 

 

:::: acts like Pooh bear, scratches head, mumbles 'Think, think, think...' ::::

 

 

Perhaps we should demand that politicians at the national level explain in small words how each of their proposals either reduces the amount of money the government needs to run or increases individual liberty. Bonus points for any policy that does both. Shaming and rejection for any policy that does neither. Three strikes and you're out...

55 Its not a messaging problem, its a problem for those dudes who kidnap people out of weird cults and deprogram them.

56 Is Ashley Judd in mourning since her Methcats lost to Robert Morris in the NIT first round? Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 07:18 AM (79k3T) feels like I've been raped

57 49 DangerGirl, don't know how far along you are in the process of letting go, but it does get easier. You will feel better, stronger, healthier...it's worth it. Posted by: TheLastOne at March 20, 2013 07:13 AM (MDQQ7) Thank you. My last drink was Saturday. No cravings so far but I just can't sleep. It's enough to drive me batty. My body will thank me in the long run...of that I'm sure.

58 51 bless you, I wanted to point that out too.

Posted by: NCKate at March 20, 2013 07:19 AM (OfPTF)

Her face must be puffier than usual.

59 If we are the adults in the room, what do adults do with unruly children? You whip their ass. Time outs are for pussies. Posted by: rickb223 at March 20, 2013 07:18 AM (d0Dmj)

Cut.  Jib.  Newsletter?

60

@43

 

One day at a time. Hang in there.

61

Messaging is easy.  Simply be on the offensive instead of always being on defense.

 

Take the opposition's issues and use them as clubs to beat them bloody.

 

Education:  Run commercials that show only 20% of inner city utes get through school, and of that small percentage, only a few can actually read.  Hammer on the fact that kids who get vouchers do great in school.  Distill it all into the message that democrats traded the education and future of black kids for teacher's union votes.

 

Immigration:  Run commercials that say that millions of seniors have worked and paid into the system their whole lives, and now democrats want to bring in millions of foreigners and give them Social Security at a time when money is tight, all to buy votes.  Show young people applying to college and being turned down while illegals get accepted. 

 

Medicare:  Run commercials showing how Medicare is going bankrupt.  Show the republican budgets and how they save it, while democrats let it go broke.

 

Nobody will give a shit about abortion, gay marriage or anything else if we hit these topics hard.  Every election, pussycons just concede these issues to the left and engage in interviews with a media that is bent on destroying them.  Time to turn things around.

62 Its not the 10 best beers you guys, its the 10 best perceived beers. But I guess it all depends on what your definition of '10' is.

63 It would also help if we stopped letting the other side pick our nominees.

64 It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem.

Yep. The "message" is whatever they say it is. Last cycle it was, "We're going to outlaw birth control, and also tax you and give the money to your boss." The second half of that was made easy by the ticket's unfamiliarity with the rhetoric of (and fundamental hostility to) free-market economics, and the first half was made up.

You can't fix made up, and the GOP isn't a free-market party. They want to tax you and give the money to your boss. For their own dishonest other-partisan purposes, the media often accidentally-truthfully points that out. But if it weren't true, they'd still say it, and it would still be your "message."

You're stuck.

65 Maybe I should buy a Michelle Shocked cd today because her fans who loved her because she was so controversial and edgy now don't like her because she's even more controversial and edgy.  I'm sure the irony escapes those dumbfucks.

66 Yep. The "message" is whatever they say it is. Last cycle it was, "We're going to outlaw birth control, and also tax you and give the money to your boss." The second half of that was made easy by the ticket's unfamiliarity with the rhetoric of (and fundamental hostility to) free-market economics, and the first half was made up Krauthammer said it's so easy to marginalize and demonize ('Alinsky' in other words) roughly half the US population. He was wrong on that one.

67

ItÂ’s Wednesday, fellow commenters at this award-winning blog. 

 

Here’s a story Vic missed – subhuman slime throws down the race card:

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/czl7tb5

 

 

Now, letÂ’s wash that sick taste out of our mouths.  TodayÂ’s story is about the great director Cecil B. DeMille:

 

 

On an early sound film (IÂ’m afraid I donÂ’t know which one), DeMille was directing a scene in which the high point was when a cowboy would fall off his horse after a rifle shot.  “Now, no matter what happens,” he told the cameraman, “I want you to keep shooting.  DonÂ’t stop for anything.  Understand?”

 

 

The cameraman nodded that he understood, and the scene went on.  As a band of cowboys thundered across the plain, a shot rang out and one of the cowboys toppled off his horse.  His acting was so realistic that a studio doctor, on location for the first time, thought the actor really had been hurt and rushed out to give first aid.

 

 

DeMille blew his top when he saw what was happening.  He popped out of his chair and ran towards the doctor, shaking his fist in rage and screaming expletives at the top of his voice.  The doctor ran away, scared to death of the directorÂ’s anger, and DeMille returned, huffing and puffing to his chair for another take.

 

 

The next day, watching the previous dayÂ’s rushes, DeMille was astonished to see the doctor run across the screen followed by a bald man shouting a torrent of abuse.  “Who in the world is that?” he asked.  “ThatÂ’s the studio doctor,” replied his assistant.  “I know that,” the director snapped.  “I mean, who is that man using that awful language?”

 

 

“That’s you, sir,” the puzzled assistant replied.

 

 

“Young man,” DeMille replied, ice in his voice, “that may appear to be me, but I assure you it is not.  I never use language like that!”

 

And that's it for me.  Hope you all have a wonderful day.

68 Congrats to the Robert Morris Colonials!! That was a good win for them. Yeah, its just the NIT but they beat big bad Kentucky. Big schools like that don't play at tiny commuter schools outside of Pittsburgh never the less lose to them. A damn entertaining game too. I'm a little bias because I grew up about 40 minutes from RMU. I can't say I ever been to the campus though. I drove past it once.

69 66 "Krauthammer said it's NOT so easy...." Crap. coffee not working

70 We need to switch labels. Get rid of the word "Conservative". Look at how Liberals morphed into Progressives. They never label themselves except by what the public will accept and promote. This is smart branding.

71 9 And remember this, you have zero rights in family court. No kidding, the divorced guy in NJ says. The most Orwellian line in the linked article was from the spokeswoman for the NJ Dep't of Children and Families: “You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” So iow anyone - oh, let's just say an aggrieved ex - can basically SWAT someone they don't like by calling the NJ Dep't of Children and Families and alleging ... abuse, endangerment, anything. Didn't ever happen? Matters not. This particular story centered around a photo of a kid with a gun, but it doesn't take a gun-grabber to abuse the family court system here in the Garden State. Sounds like the dad did the right thing in this case by getting his attorney on the phone with the cops while they were still outside his house. That line separating us from anarchy and/or dictatorship is getting closer every day, methinks.

72 Its not the 10 best beers you guys, its the 10 best perceived beers. But I guess it all depends on what your definition of '10' is.

Posted by: Urban Achiever at March 20, 2013 07:22 AM (IJHzz)

I was a bit confused because Sam Adams is a brewery with lots of different brews and seasonals and they rated them as #1 yet made the point of differentiating between Bud and Bud Lite (both of which I hate).  Or when you just say "Sam Adams" does that mean their Boston Lager?

73 Maybe I should buy a Michelle Shocked cd today because her fans who loved her because she was so controversial and edgy now don't like her because she's even more controversial and edgy. I'm sure the irony escapes those dumbfucks.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 07:26 AM (79k3T)

 

What happened?  Did she say something totally out of line like, "let's not put all Rethuglicans into death camps" ?

74

Danger Girl,

 

It's been almost two years since I last had a drink. No longer enjoyed it. The only hard part is being around friends or family who ask why. I simply tell the truth. I just don't want to.

75 Democrats won in 2012 despite having produced the worst economy evah, and that's what is pissing off the GOP Washington establishment. So they're flopping around, trying to figure out what pretzel-like maneuver will get them elected, and the rank and file is staring, slack-jawed and astounded, watching the ugly unmasking of their "leaders" as mere Pav-Rovian careerists. The GOP just needs an ideological leader and will win; after all, it's not like Americans are actually pro-socialist.

76 ::::Your writing assignment is to figure out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public AND for GOP voters:::: Simple. Just wait. Because when unemployment remains high, when the eventual rationing and price controls have failed, when the money is all gone and the country burns, the laughing will stop. And all the Occupiers and Free Shitters and race pimps will clutch at our pristine white spats from the gutter and scream, "Save us!" And as we press down upon their hand with the tip of our silver-headed walking stick and feel the fragile bones of their hand splinter, we'll whisper, "That's funny."

77 Your party, your problem, dude. McCain was the last "mainstream" Republican I'll ever vote for. No more.

78 We need to switch labels. Get rid of the word "Conservative". Look at how Liberals morphed into Progressives. They never label themselves except by what the public will accept and promote. This is smart branding. I know! how about the "Metal Snakes" ....no?

79 Edited (Damn autocorrect):

Make it more of a type of moderate Libertarian party and stop nominating people who wanna argue the legitimacy of rape. Oh and let's not just shit on everything our guys come up with just because some guys on the radio told us to

There

80 I was a bit confused because Sam Adams is a brewery with lots of different brews and seasonals and they rated them as #1 yet made the point of differentiating between Bud and Bud Lite (both of which I hate). Or when you just say "Sam Adams" does that mean their Boston Lager? Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 07:30 AM (79k3T) I think we've put much more thought into that article than the person who wrote it.

81 Is anyone else having a lot of trouble with Firefox v19.0.2? Mine updated itself overnight and has crashed half a dozen times in the space of 30 minutes this morning.

82

When the LIV voted Obama in the first time I figured give them 4 years and they will see what a big mistake they made. 

 

Then they voted him in a SECOND time!

 

Now I figure the majority of the population is just too frickin' stupid to save.

83 What happened? Did she say something totally out of line like, "let's not put all Rethuglicans into death camps" ?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 20, 2013 07:32 AM (zF6Iw)

Check the thread from yesterday afternoon.  Pay close attention to the comments where ace shows a Bill Maher level of understanding of Christianity as he insults morons of faith.  Plus as an added bonus Jeff B acts like a bloviating asshole and we have a return of seattle slough illustrating he's still a fucking retard.

84 Posted by: Urban Achiever at March 20, 2013 07:35 AM (IJHzz) How about the Regressive Party (back to the Good Old Days)!

85 Losers after Reagan, this guy wrote that book, summarizes why Limited Government is best (more politely than I do): http://preview.tinyurl.com/c3oeejh 1. Most politicians are whores. 2. If you give government power, they will use it to fuck you.

86 Gabe, is the answer Gay Marriage?

87

Your party, your problem, dude.

McCain was the last "mainstream" Republican I'll ever vote for.

No more

 

THIS x1000.

 

The only thing I want from a candidate now is somebody who will Preston Brooks the media.  And not metaphorically.

88 1. Most politicians are whores. 2. If you give government power, they will use it to fuck you. Posted by: Thorvald at March 20, 2013 07:37 AM (1V6Pv) Wasn't those reasons pretty much the basis for the Constitution as originally written?

89 I blame Bush. http://preview.tinyurl.com/codhsgp

90

Let's do some documentaries that illustrate fiscal conservatism (positive and negative).  Here's a couple:

1) Detroit - how it went from MotorCity to burned out and bankrupt.

2) North Dakota - why it has the lowest unemployment rate in the country and how gas drilling creates jobs

91 I am outraged. 


Fox just showed a Kansas City Bus driver who was suspended for taking a call from her Marine son in Iraq to wish her a happy birthday.  There was  nobody on the bus but her.


Kansas city voters, there are some assholes who need to go!

92 Do the right thing for Liberty, and you'll have to beat the chicks off with a stick. Liberty is sexy! Liberty sells! Liberty, not license.

93 There was nobody on the bus but her. Was the bus moving?

94 Messaging is easy. Simply be on the offensive instead of always being on defense.

It isn't quite that simple, but your prescription is the biggest and most easily fixed problem.  Boehner and McConnell both are good tacticians of their respective chambers, but seem to have no clue how to publicly take the fight to the other guys.  If nothing else, this dispirits our side.  More importantly, though, it allows the left to implement their plans without worrying that they'll be flanked.  We need a Patton, if not as SOH or majority leader, then as the designated point man for strategy. 

l'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace.

95 Obama and Messina's plan to burn down the GOP worked.

96 A party that cannot think of an approach to getting more votes that hasn't been created and approved by Karl Rove and his merry band of consulting thieves does not deserve to exist!

97 And as we press down upon their hand with the tip of our silver-headed walking stick and feel the fragile bones of their hand splinter, we'll whisper, "That's funny." Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 07:33 AM (JDIKC)

Will you be dressed up like a million dollar trouper, trying hard to look like Gary Cooper?

98

Check the thread from yesterday afternoon. Pay close attention to the comments where ace shows a Bill Maher level of understanding of Christianity as he insults morons of faith. Plus as an added bonus Jeff B acts like a bloviating asshole and we have a return of seattle slough illustrating he's still a fucking retard.

 

Is that the thread where the consensus was that proponents of gay marriage are on the side of the angels and Christians have no right to object because - well, because "progress!" and "bigots!" ?  No thanks.  I bailed out of that one fast.

 

I love the head Ewok, but Catholicism is one of his blind spots.

99 86 Gabe, is the answer Gay Marriage? Posted by: Truman North and his shiny new website

I tried not to laugh.  I did not succeed.

100 Check the thread from yesterday afternoon. Pay close attention to the comments where ace shows a Bill Maher level of understanding of Christianity as he insults morons of faith. Plus as an added bonus Jeff B acts like a bloviating asshole and we have a return of seattle slough illustrating he's still a fucking retard.  Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 07:37 AM (79k3T)

Which thread exactly?  Annnnnd that would not be the first time Ace did that.

Or even the sixth....

101

Will you be dressed up like a million dollar trouper, trying hard to look like Gary Cooper?

 

Super duper!

102 Congrats to the Robert Morris Colonials!! That was a good win for them. Yeah, its just the NIT but they beat big bad Kentucky. Big schools like that don't play at tiny commuter schools outside of Pittsburgh never the less lose to them. A damn entertaining game too. I'm a little bias because I grew up about 40 minutes from RMU. I can't say I ever been to the campus though. I drove past it once.

Posted by: puddleglum at March 20, 2013 07:28 AM (fI05/)

Since they're using Rupp Arena this weekend in March Madness (where Louisville will play which must really chafe Ashley's puffy scamper if she's as much of a fan as she claims to be) it was a home game for the Colonials.  What does that arena hold?  3k?

103 The GOP must never ever ever choose its battles. It should holler and scream about every minute topic the base believes in, no matter how trivial.

104 86 Gabe, is the answer Gay Marriage?

Actually, it kind of might be. The new, libertarian brand of the party might be "It's Your Life." The other guys want to tell you what to do, what to buy, how much soda you can have, etc. We won't.

You want to marry a dude--fine with me.*

* For the purposes of this post, I am assuming that you are a dude as well.

105 1) Detroit - how it went from MotorCity to burned out and bankrupt.


Take a look at Shorpy.  Detroit used to be a thriving city BEFORE the auto industry took over.

106

The best beer in the world is the one you make for yourself.

 

Switching gears...

 

How can Gabe now say "And, yes, this is a messaging problem, not a policy one" when he's been arguing for policy changes in the GOP platform?  Hasn't he been agitating for the GOP to embrace SSM? 

 

Trying to co-opt Democratic policies isn't the answer, and it never has been.  Ronald Reagan had the answer back in 1975 when he spoke in front of CPAC:

 

-----

It was a feeling that there was not a sufficient difference now between the parties that kept a majority of the voters away from the polls. When have we ever advocated a closed-door policy? Who has ever been barred from participating?

Our people look for a cause to believe in. Is it a third party we need, or is it a new and revitalized second party, raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people?

Let us show that we stand for fiscal integrity and sound money and above all for an end to deficit spending, with ultimate retirement of the national debt.

-----

 

Seems to me to be a good plan.  Don't sacrifice first principles in a vain attempt to just "win elections."  That will sacrifice the party's soul and hasten its demise.

107 @19 Surly Furious Ale, but you can't get it unless you come here (not pasteurized).

108 Now I figure the majority of the population is just too .... stupid to save.


We have a solution.  Well, soon anyway.
http://tinyurl.com/aon5ar4

109 Was the bus moving?

Posted by: Regular Moron at March 20, 2013 07:41 AM (feFL6)

They didn't say.

110 Trey Gowdy on Fox beating the shit out of Ice asshole.


Why is nobody pushing him for President?

111 Why can't we change policy again? There's tons of low-hanging fruit.

112 I love the head Ewok, but Catholicism is one of his blind spots. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 20, 2013 07:42 AM (zF6Iw)

I never mind when people don't understand it.  Or don't want to know about it.  I don't care.  To each his own.  That's what makes this a great country.

What I mind is when people can't keep a civil tone about this one issue (religion) close to people's hearts, but I'm somehow supposed to keep a civil tone as we discuss two guys publicly cornholing each other during the Folsom Street Fair.

113

The GOP must never ever ever choose its battles. It should holler and scream about every minute topic the base believes in, no matter how trivial.

 

How about they actually listen to the base, instead of swallowing every bit of garbage that spews out from the MFM?

114 Which thread exactly? Annnnnd that would not be the first time Ace did that.

Or even the sixth....

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 07:43 AM (sbV1u)

The 3:59 one with Michelle Shocked in the title.

115 Messaging is easy. Simply be on the offensive instead of always being on defense.

Yup.  After W. got elected in 2000 it became conventional wisdom amongst GOP insiders that you should sit back and let the media and Dems define you, even when that's a flat out lie.  I have no idea what they think they gain by not doing that, but I know what they lost: Congress in '06, and the Presidency in '08 and '12.

'12 in particular was totally winnable if Romney had done any pushback at all about "Republicans want to ban tampons" and had cut up some of the testimonial speeches from the RNC into handy "Yes, he's a great guy" soundbites.

116

There is nothing wrong with Republican philosophy.  Where the party has gone wrong is in its constantly nominating these tired old warhorses rather than groom a young attractive candidate for the presidency.  If Republicans decide to become Democrats it will certainly be its death knell.

 

The media is certianly a problem, but the media must be faced up to.  Hardly anyone believes the bullshit coming off the tube anymore so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to expose it for the farce that it is.

117 The Robert Morris game was great entertainment. I missed the NCAA play-in games, but I see that NC A&T has advanced to the main event. NC A&T is All Qaeda's favorite mid-major.

118 The best American beer is Founder's Dirty Bastard

119 The 3:59 one with Michelle Shocked in the title. Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 07:47 AM (79k3T)

TY

120 They didn't say. Here's the link to Daily Mail UK article. The bus was moving. I think 5 day suspension is severe but I think anyone driving a vehicle with gross vehicle weight over that of a car on a cellphone should be punished. There's a reason they don't need seat belts on buses; in an accident the vehicle with greater mass almost always wins. http://tinyurl.com/cnqzq2s

121 People like winners, but they'll love a loser if he puts up a fight.

The Republican party is both a loser and a quitter. Every time the Dems attack, the Republicans cave.

Why should anyone respect a party that doesn't even bother to fight for what it believes in?

122 I don't remember who said it, but we need to be the Party of More. More money in Your pocket. More freedom. More success. More respect. More. More is cool. Don't worry how we do it. Just elect us, and you will get More.

123 For Gabe, the answer is always Gay Marriage.

124 Will you be dressed up like a million dollar trouper, trying hard to look like Gary Cooper?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 07:41 AM (sbV1u)

How many Morons recognize that song from Taco?

125 >> Simple. Just wait. That's really the only option. A top-down approach to changing the culture won't work, and a long march style approach takes longer than we have. The whole "win the culture" thing strikes me as a big Underpants Gnomes scheme anyway, when people on our side are promoting jumping on every lefty fad that comes down the pike (*cough* Girls *cough*) to try and do that. Just buy plenty of marshmallows and relax.

126 1. Thank you for your support. 2. Damn you bastards for getting that awful Taco cover of POTR stuck in my head.

127 How many Morons recognize that song from Taco? Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 07:51 AM (53z96)

Taco covered it.

He didn't create it.

128 Is anyone else having a lot of trouble with Firefox v19.0.2? Nope, it's solid for me. Nagged me to update my Flashplayer, which I did.

129 How many Morons recognize that song from Taco?

My car radio is glued on Sirius/XM 80s on 8.  Except when it isn't.  So yeah, I recognized that right away.

130 As for what's wrong with the Republican party, all you have to do is look at how the party failed to protect a potential superstar like Allen West to realize the answer to the question.  That it was a "bipartisan" redistricting commission, as Hollowpoint never tires of pointing out, just means that RINOs and donks combine to shitcan a conservative.  That would've never happened if West was a donk.  They know how to look out for their own.

131 The answer is more free shit. Look, the mother effer's gonna' burn anyway so make sure you're on the top of the pig pile when it does.

132 Even the LOW information voters will come aboard as we see the effectiveness of the Nanny Obammy..

133 127 -

I'm ashamed of all of you for even remembering  a recording artist with the name Taco.

Some things need to be forgotten. 

134 I love the head Ewok, but Catholicism is one of his blind spots. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 20, 2013 07:42 AM (zF6Iw)

Wow.  Ace was quite the douche in that thread.

I don't mind having my assumptions questioned.  I think Ace does though.

135 Rogue Chocolate Stout? I know, right? They talked me into it, and it was really good! Very well balanced, long taste, and delicious!

136 Here I am to save you wingnuts!

137

Ah, I've seen the Michelle Shocked story now.  I think Insty had a link yesterday to it that I couldn't get to and figured Pete Seeger had finally let the rats eat what was left of his brain.

 

Meh.  Only ever heard one song of hers - Anchorage.  After that, kind of figured she wasn't my type.

138 When I hear people who have been involved with the Catholic Church their whole lives make grand pronouncements about the Faith, the Church, the faithful themselves, I usually roll my eyes. No matter how expert one may be, there are still hundreds of miles of filled bookshelves on the topic that he or she has never even seen. That's the nature of something that has been written about for millennia. When I hear non-religious, non-Catholics make the same kind of pronouncements I don't even bother with the eye roll, just chalk them up as fools and/or bigots.

139 That would've never happened if West was a donk. They know how to look out for their own.

Contrast Hollowpoint's constant denigration of West and his military service because West is outspoken with the DNC's ultimately successful "Re-Elect Progressive Champion Alan Grayson" campaign.  Note that they consider "ideologically outspoken" a virtue.

140 And yeah, I don't know how many of you actually communicate with liberals on a regular basis, but I do.  They're not in love with Barack Obama.  They weren't in November of last year.

They voted for him because they think rich people are out to get them.  And they think all capitalists  are rich because they took from the poor. 

Messenger.  Not message.

Nominate someone in '16 who is clearly not a rich guy, and you'll win. 

Or nominate Jeb and see how that goes. 

141 GOP: "Vote for us! We'll get the economy going and get you back to work!" Dems: "Fuck that noise! Stay home...get high! We'll give you all you need" Yep, good luck.

142 Taco covered it.

He didn't create it.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 07:55 AM (sbV1u)

I suspect even fewer people recognize the original which was written by Irving Berlin and popularized by Fred Astair.

143 But, srsly, if you haven't read Augustine's Confessions, don't bother me until you have. "Dear God, make me good. Just not yet." The human condition, brothers and sisters, the human condition.

144

2. Damn you bastards for getting that awful Taco cover of POTR stuck in my head.

 

Actually, I've got the Club Des Belugas version running through my mind.

145 Morning Jolt: A cup of coffee and Levin. http://tinyurl.com/ccjgqrn Mark calling Reid a shriveled up mental case. Worth it.

146 137 -

There are dozens of great female singers out there, that most people never heard of.  She's not one of them.  And neither is Ani Defranco.

Try PJ Harvey for starters.  Or if that's not your style, look up Patty Griffin.  Not Nancy Griffiths, Patty Griffin. 

Go ahead.  I'll wait... 

147 When I hear people who have been involved with the Catholic Church their whole lives make grand pronouncements about the Faith, the Church, the faithful themselves, I usually roll my eyes. No matter how expert one may be, there are still hundreds of miles of filled bookshelves on the topic that he or she has never even seen. That's the nature of something that has been written about for millennia. When I hear non-religious, non-Catholics make the same kind of pronouncements I don't even bother with the eye roll, just chalk them up as fools and/or bigots.  Posted by: Lincolntf at March 20, 2013 07:59 AM (ZshNr)

^^^THIS.

The only thing a MA in Theology got me was a larger bookshelf and the realization that there is absolutely no frickin' way way to get through this in a lifetime.

And the bigots and fools thing?  That's a given.  I'll talk to anyone about theology who seems interested, yet skeptical.  What I won't do is talk to someone who's cocksure that that have it all figured out.

Because they are morons - and not in a good way.

148 I have to say that I really like Ben Carson. I read his book a few years ago, and he is a good man. Now everyone complain about what he said about guns...

149 I suspect even fewer people recognize the original which was written by Irving Berlin and popularized by Fred Astair. Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 08:00 AM (53z96)

Yup.

The Astaire version is on YouTube

150

@92 and @104

 

I agree.

 

I think most people get a little more conservative once they have responsiblity for their own actions. Responsibility should be the handmaiden of liberty: if you're free to do what you want, then you should have to live with the choice. Remove responsibility by changing a "safety net" into a catch-all, and failure results.

151 @145 He left out "pederast". Anonymous sources have told me Reid is a pederast.

152

The answer is ridiculously simple.  Be the party of conservatism.  If you're having trouble with what this means, Mr.s Preibus, Bush et.al, just read the last chapter of Mark Levin's book on Liberty & Tyranny.

Step two is to put accomplished people font & center of your party who can articulate that message. 

Step three is to go after the throats of the Democrats with a straight razor.  Stop playing nice.  We have a party that shows up to a gunfight with a g-ddamn checker board.

153 Follow-up


Your writing assignment is to figure out how to make the GOP less of a punchline for both the general public AND for GOP voters.



Easy Peasy -  fire everyone in the Republican Party leadership positions.

154 "Responsibility should be the handmaiden of liberty" Every conservative argument ever made is summed up by this simple statement. Your next drink is on me.

155 So iow anyone - oh, let's just say an aggrieved ex - can basically SWAT someone they don't like by calling the NJ Dep't of Children and Families and alleging ... abuse, endangerment, anything. Didn't ever happen? Matters not. There is your answer to why guys aren't getting married or remarried. Divorce court rape rape.

156

Hey, here's an example of the type of piece we need to get into popular magazines on a regular basis-- the happy warrior article.

We need to see these every week in every magazine on the checkout aisle.

http://tinyurl.com/c5cf9yh

157 @152 This! "We have a party that shows up to a gunfight with a g-ddamn checker board." "I spat out a mouthful of Schaefer's on the bar."

158 The GOP's messaging is a problem because of their policies. What does the GOP stand for today? I'm not sure, but they seem to be pandering to those who haven't voted for them and probably never will, which prompted me to post this thought on last night's ONT. Reading the GOP's "Autopsy Report" and listening to many of the talking heads saying they need to change their positions to get more voters reminds me of when I was a kid in school. Occasionally I would say or do something I didn't really want to so I could be friends with some cool kids. I found that most of the cool kids were really dumb ass shallow jerks and I would end up feeling dirty and stupid, and sometimes lose real friends by doing so.

So the GOP seems to be doing the same thing. "Okay we'll change our positions and our beliefs on A,B,C,.....X,Y,Z. Now won't all you cool kids vote for us? Oh, and all our long time friends/voters, suck it up. Where else are you going to go?" Well GOP, you just might find out.

I'm not naive. I know that living within the confines of the constitution, valuing the individual more than the collective or "group", wanting a smaller, less intrusive, more responsible government will be painful (as if what's being done now isn't already painful) and probably isn't even possible with today's society. Friends and family have called me a cold-blooded hard-hearted s.o.b. because of my beliefs. But that's okay. If compromising my beliefs means I get to sit with the cool kids, then no thanks. I'd rather sit at the far corner
table by myself.

159

@154 That's very kind. TY.

160 The best American beer, is the one somebody else is buying for me...

161

"A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers."

 

 

-Ronald Reagan

162 Must fill out bracket in the next half hour or so.... Can't decide how far to send the Blue Devils, otherwise I think I'm ready.

163 My incarcerated business partner's gay retarded niece is a republican.

164 Best Beer: Ubu Ale from Lake Placid Brewery.  English style Ale, ABV 7.8%.  Good floral and spice hoppiness, crisp but smooth.  The kind of beer you drink two growlers of and then slowly pass out.

165 Serious question...are our GOP leaders actually stupid, smarter than all of us (because they can see "the big picture" we're simply not privy to), or are we all dupes?

166

@162

 

I can't tell how far to send the Blue Devils, either. I do have a sugestion as to where, though...

 

Go 'Heels.

 

 

167

Or if that's not your style, look up Patty Griffin.

 

One Big Love is the song that always cheers me up.  The only way it could have been better is if Phil Spector had produced it.

168 "Responsibility should be the handmaiden of liberty"

Posted by: Icedog at March 20, 2013 08:09 AM (9ScGj)

It sounds good, but I disagree. Liberty as we have come to understand it is a set of rules, evenly applied, that does not restrict natural (or God-given) rights.

I doubt the founders expected us to be responsible.

They expected us to be free.

169 That would've never happened if West was a donk. They know how to look out for their own.

I disagree.

170 Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 07:51 AM (53z96)

Awful. Just awful.

Grating and slightly off key and the singer's voice is irritating.

You're correct...the original is much better.

171 165 No one who gets to the point of power in government is going to be dedicated to reducing the power of government. It's pure self-interest.

172 @164 Let's do 'er! Say the word, and I'll have 'em fuel 'er up, and we'll file the FP. http://preview.tinyurl.com/c5xlukf

173 Left side of bracket complete, now onto the much trickier right side.

174 Posted by: Barney Frank at March 20, 2013 08:18 AM (YXmuI)

Why? You had a long and illustrious career fucking hookers and running a prostitution ring out of your apartment, and nothing happened to you.

Sounds like Democrat business as usual!

175 ::::98 Check the thread from yesterday afternoon. Pay close attention to the comments where ace shows a Bill Maher level of understanding of Christianity as he insults morons of faith. Plus as an added bonus Jeff B acts like a bloviating asshole and we have a return of seattle slough illustrating he's still a fucking retard. ::::: This is exactly the reason why I haven't done my annual donation to the site. Arguing out of ignorance and arrogance like that is fine, I guess, but I am not going to pay a premium for having my beliefs misrepresented and my faith insulted.

176

Barney Frank held down what is naturally a fairly Republican area in southeastern MA for 30 years.

When he was ready to go, they had him sign on to the banking takeover on his way out the door.

Then they replaced him with perhaps the most charismatic and institutionally-advantaged person Mass has seen in 40 years:  Joe Kennedy.

Again, a fairly Republican area held down by the democrats.

177 EoJ, send me a check instead.  My donation page is up and running.

178 Posted by: Icedog at March 20, 2013 08:15 AM (9ScGj)

I think "our leaders" have an inflated sense of their own intelligence, but also have a clear idea of their own end game, which is to become wealthy.

And yes....we are dupes.

179 Go ahead. I'll wait...

Posted by: BurtTC at March 20, 2013 08:03 AM (BeSEI)

Lucinda Williams, Sarah Borges, Sunny Sweeney, Lydia Loveless, Eilen Jewell...

180 The best American beer, is the one somebody else is buying for me... The absolute best beer I ever had was the first one out of the tap (Yuengling) the day my daughter got married and someone else had to start paying her bills. You couldn't have wiped the smile off my face with a backhoe. Free at last. What a beer. It still took a couple years to pay off the orthodontist, the college, the automobile, the furniture, the clothing, and all the other credit card debt she had helped me amass.

181 That goes for the rest of you.  I'm doing what we all say needs to be done.  Support the cause.

182 Friends and family have called me a cold-blooded hard-hearted s.o.b. because of my beliefs. But that's okay. If compromising my beliefs means I get to sit with the cool kids, then no thanks. I'd rather sit at the far corner table by myself. I'll save you a seat.

183 but I am not going to pay a premium for having my beliefs misrepresented and my faith insulted.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 08:20 AM (JDIKC)

Ace was making an interesting point about religion. I don't think he was correct, but he wasn't being abusive or insulting.

184 You're correct...the original is much better.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:18 AM (3Mkrp)

CBD, will the car page make a comeback?

185 "I doubt the founders expected us to be responsible." CB, I disagree. If you recall, only property owners were allowed to vote. That didn't mean you had to be rich, but they believed only those with skin in the game should be allowed to define the nation. The greatest government or society possible will always collapse once you allow the irresponsible to make the rules.

186 OK time to go actually do some work. Catch up with y'all in a bit.

187 annual donation to the site

****

It's OK. I gave Mitt Romney $75. There's no shame attached.

188

Individual positions aren't the problem.  The people who don't vote GOP because of its stance on gay marriage will find another excuse not to vote GOP.  Ditto amnesty. 

Republicans need to be aggressive in their beliefs.  Conservatives need to be unapologetic about their conservatism, and liberal Republicans need to stand up for Federalism and states' rights.

We need to start pushing back in the cultural arena.  We can't just win in the news media; we also need to win victories in the prime time sitcom arena.  We need to take advantage of the internet and the digital revolution to find young conservative talent and start producing shows that reflect conservative values and distribute them through alternative channels such as YouTube, Amazon, and Netflix.

We need to start cutting out the left from our daily lives.  Don't associate with the hardcore left, and more importantly don't let your children associate with theirs.  Pull you children out of public school and send them to private school or homeschool, even if it requires sacrifice to your lifestyle. 

189 My brother used to give me money to go away. He still sends me five bucks at Christmas which is good for the whole year.

190 >> Posted by: Barney Frank at March 20, 2013 08:18 AM (YXmuI) The difference there is that MA was losing a seat. A donk was going to lose no matter what. Florida actually gained 2 seats and managed to squeeze West out at the same time.

191 Cowboy Junkies -- Misguided Angel

http://tinyurl.com/7397hr6

Margo Timmins has a wonderful voice, and is not unpleasant to look at.

192 And, yes, this is a messaging problem, not a policy one. - No, it's a policy problem. The Democrats appeal to identifiable groups and actually deliver the loot to those groups. The GOP approach to its 90% white base is: promise them anything, but give them anti-white policies. (Meaning more mass immigration, anti-white preferences, affirmative action, quotas, set-asides, "disparate impact" and so on.) To get a favorable hearing in a polarized identity politics environment (which is what the left has created with multiculturalism and mass immigration), you need some substantial body of people to regard you as, at worst, their bastards. The GOP prefers to dissolve its base and import a new base. There is no way to get a favorable hearing while doing that. There is also no way to get a favorable presentation from the leftist mass media. So buy up mass media to oppose them, and repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!

193

@168

 

Icedog was quoting me, so any disagreement is with me, but perhaps we don't disagree? I agree with you that the founders intended us to have liberty. But they could only so intend for responsible adults. As a silly example, I'm pretty sure the founders did not intend for children to have the right to keep and bear arms. Liberties cannot be exercised without accountability, that is, without holding folks responsible for their actions, which necessarily assumes a responsible group of people who can hold one another accountable.

 

 

  

194 Posted by: Icedog at March 20, 2013 08:25 AM (9ScGj)

But the Constitution was written for all, not just those who voted.

The hope was that as a group we could be responsible. But there was no expectation that the individual would demonstrate that responsibility.

And look at the design of the government. Checks and balances wouldn't be needed if the assumption was that we would act intelligently all the time.

195 I don' want no gop, godammit! I'm a Dapper Dan man!

196 @191 Yes! I heard the Junkies do "Crossroads" on the radio in the car one night when I was bringing my kids back to their mom's. I'd be grateful if someone could post a link to that performance, as I haven't been able to find it on my own.

197 Coors Light?! No thanks.....I like my water un-tinted.

198 Ace was making an interesting point about religion. I don't think he was correct, but he wasn't being abusive or insulting. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:24 AM (3Mkrp)

I didn't take it that way.  YMMV.

199 :::Ace was making an interesting point about religion. I don't think he was correct, but he wasn't being abusive or insulting.::: Now, that would be in the eye of the beholder, wouldn't it?

200 They need to do what the Dems would do with a messaging problem when they have to face a hostile media (say fox or bloggers) wage total war on it. And don't go all weepy about the first amendment that things designed to protect and promote and free and independent press, we don't have that. Not even close. What we've got is a corporate run media that has willingly made it self subservient to the government and the party of government the democrats. But their parent companies are all corporations so every opportunity to damage those corporate entities should be taken. The tax code and regulations are wielded as a weapon by the Dems the GOP should do the same when it comes to the corporate parents of the MSM. After all these news divisions and news papers don't make money damage the networks ability to subsidies them. Force the cable companies to offer à la carte programming, MSNBC, current, and CNN will disappear from most cable customers homes. Make the copyright laws sane again Disney will lose most of their iconic IP so less money for them to keep ABC afloat.

201 Ace was making an interesting point about religion. I don't think he was correct, but he wasn't being abusive or insulting.

His point was neither novel nor interesting.  And yes, he was being insulting and hectoring.

I think the subtext of these freakouts is that he really needs to get himself laid and stop worrying about what we all think about it (I'm pretty sure even the strictest socons on the site would chip in for a party if he announced successful deployment of pancakes, IYKWIMAITYD).

202 I think Ace gets pissy whenever someone gets nasty with a co-blog. I think some 'Genl Woundwart' said something to Gabe yesterday morning that got deleted so I can't quote, but reaction from other morons seems to indicate it was pretty vile. I'm guessing a gay-bash.

203 195 This blog is a geographical oddity.

204 Elite Eight: Louisville, Duke, Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Kansas, Georgetown, Indiana and Miami. An eclectic group.

205 We had an ex make an accusation and it took months and thousands of dollars to clear it, and still all the parties involved are kind of skittish (the school got all in our business) and now everyone is afraid to even hug my stepdaughter which makes for really healthy relationships. The CPS framework is the Stasi. You are guilty until proven innocent, you cannot face your accuser, you may not even see the evidence against you, and some faceless (and not that there is anything wrong with that gay and childless) bureaucrat has the power to break up families and permanently ruin reputations. And the administrative actions based on no rules of evidence or due process become the basis for judicial actions. It is terrible what we have created. My family is well educated and had the resources to defend against the machine of the State. I imagine those with less available to them get bulldozed. It's criminal.

206

5What fresh hell will this day bring?

 

 

You'll get warmed-over hell and like it!

207 @196 et voila! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JntBcjzGkgs

208 I don't think he was correct, but he wasn't being abusive or insulting.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:24 AM (3Mkrp)

I don't agree.  I'm not gonna go back and find specific quotes but I thought he was being a real prick to Grey Fox, for example.

209 Posted by: MarkW at March 20, 2013 08:28 AM (NVDWF)

Yes, I realize he was quoting, and praising you.

I disagree that the founders expected us, as individuals, to behave responsibly (see #194).

Liberties can absolutely be exercised without accountability. It happens all the time. Free speech is a powerful tool, and it is misused all of the time, with almost no accountability (ignoring yelling fire in a crowded theater).

210 >> Liberties cannot be exercised without accountability, that is, without holding folks responsible for their actions, which necessarily assumes a responsible group of people who can hold one another accountable. From Federalist No. 51: "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." Some things are timeless.

211 But the Constitution was written for all, not just those who voted.


The Constitution was written to make sure that the government did not have the power to abuse anyone.



Too bad the Democrats and early Republicans trashed it in the name of "freedom" so that it no longer meant a damn thing.

212 We are all, to a great degree; a product of our culture. Ace lives in the NYC area. You have to expect some cultural bias no matter how clever he is. And he is clever. Just don't pay attention to the crap you don't like.

213 GOP needs to fight not cower. Why do you think lefties all of a sudden started liking Rand Paul. Anthony.Weiner will be back.

214 Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 08:33 AM (79k3T)

Very possible. I didn't read everything he was responding to, so he could have been a rancid douchebag.

He does get touchy when we talk about religion, especially Christianity.

215

"It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem"

As long as you believe that, then you can whimper yourself to sleep at night thinking that you're "right" and everyone else "just doesn't get it".

Pathetic.

Brietbart would be embarrassed.

Get in the media's face. Smile at their stupid questions, and turn them around. Tell all why, and disagree with good cheer. Or go home and cry. Unfortunately, the current GOP would rather have a good cry...

216

11AmericaÂ’s 10 best beers. This is why I think all polls suck. Anything that assigns Bud Light a position other than piss bucket filler is bull shit.

 

 

That poll was ten best perceived beers. Sorta like, Odogbreath is in the top ten perceived presidents of the world. Bud Light isn't even beer. I have actually tasted water with more flavor. (Mineral waters of Red Boiling Springs, TN).

217

OK, gonna go do work.  Be back later.

 

Warning.  Not promise.

218 I think some 'Genl Woundwart' said something to Gabe yesterday morning that got deleted so I can't quote, but reaction from other morons seems to indicate it was pretty vile. I'm guessing a gay-bash.

Posted by: Regular Moron at March 20, 2013 08:33 AM (feFL6)

It wasn't just a "gay bash".  It was a vile repeated attack and would not shut up.  He was banned. And I think he needed to be banned.

219 "And, yes, this is a messaging problem, not a policy one." As long as you persist in believing that, the GOP has no future to speak of.

220 Obama calls us racists ,slave owners , tax , women haters, but he's a great guy.

Vote for us.

221 As a silly example, I'm pretty sure the founders did not intend for children to have the right to keep and bear arms. They also didn't define them as children until they were 26.

222 Some things are timeless.

Posted by: Andy at March 20, 2013 08:34 AM (OZPoa)

The conceit of modern man: "We are the smartest people to ever walk the earth!"

Madison would just chuckle.

223 I disagree with Gabriel. It IS a policy problem. The GOP is supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility and smaller, less intrusive government, yet they grow the debt and the size of governmen whenever they're in power.

Plus these bitches cave on every single showdown with the Democrats. Even with Obamacare, there was little hell raising and serious attempt to kill the other side politically for ramming that piece of shit through. Fine, you can't stop it--MAKE THEM PAY THE PRICE FOR IT.

They don't fight for our interests; they believe in nothing; they stand for nothing. This party is shit. And I am not a part of it anymore.

224 Oops. My bad.

225 Stop chasing the tail of popularity with the media centroid in DC and NY. We'll never be popular with those who vote 90-10 against, no matter how much we would change our policies or messaging - it'll never be enough. Do take principled stands that the vast majority of those in your own party, and a clear majority of Americans, can agree with.

226 CBD, no arguments on your 'checks and balances' point. I think our founding fathers had a true understanding of man's evil nature. Obviously not a FF, but good quote from Einstein, "You can't have freedom without having responsibility. Once you're fully responsible for yourself in every way, you can have freedom. If there's any area in which you're not responsible for yourself, there's room for you to be dependent on other people or other conditions, which take away from your freedom."

227
Cowboy Junkies - Crossroads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JntBcjzGkgs

228 I think it funny every time I see someone complain about the tone of comments anyone (Ace) makes on this blog. There seems at some times to be no limit at all to the vile invective one can hurl at a commenter until you touch just the right person's special spot and then get banned.

229 Or if that's not your style, look up Patty Griffin. Thanks for the tip. Never heard of her, and I collect a lot of female vocals.

230 Back to the CPS. There is no accountability or recourse. You can't sue your accuser. There is no cost to the agency or individual that makes the wrong call. They are immune by law. It's a scary world. I am in meatspace a pretty reserved individual. Talking about CPS makes me sound like a foam flecked hysteric, people don't believe what I tell them because it sounds too crazy.

231 :::177 EoJ, send me a check instead. My donation page is up and running. Posted by: Truman North at March 20, 2013 08:21 AM (I2LwF)::; I will definitely do that, you beautiful, doomed bastard.

232 MPPP: I asked you this yesterday but the thread was already dead. Got any interesting stories about Jack Webb or Broderick Crawford?

233 Look, this is simple and the essentials were worked out thousands of years ago. To be persuasive, you must have an audience willing to give you a hearing. If the audience is against you, you're done before you begin. The GOP has cooperated for decades with leftist efforts to make America more and more like Somalia, Mexico and the more anti-American parts of Asia. It defines those people as "natural conservatives". The GOP has had zero tolerance for efforts to keep America like the parts of America that will give conservative arguments a hearing. You don't hear GOP politicians talking about how whites are "natural conservatives" or talking about the importance of appealing to whites specifically with policies that favor them and politicians that look like them, the way they do with Hispanics. Racial politics are fully mainstream in the Republican Party - just never in favor of whites. In a super-politicized environment where it's hard for any substantial body of people to have a future without someone in government on their side, whites, without the political cover that other races have, have been in decline, and are now going into a minority. And it's harder for the GOP to get a favorable hearing. Gee. Who could have imagined that? Yes this is a policy problem. No slapping a media blitz band-aid on the problem won't fix it. It took half a century to get things this screwed up. Specifically it took since 1965. It will take another half century to right the ship, at least - and that's if the GOP starts trying, which it is not inclined to do.

234 I will definitely do that, you beautiful, doomed bastard.  Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 08:42 AM (l+kmq)

Hey!  It's Bristol County!  What could go wrong?!?!

235 When the media will either filter, ignore, or distort any message you try to make, it doesn't matter what you do until you get the media out of the way.

236 http://preview.tinyurl.com/7phoc5k http://preview.tinyurl.com/2ktbnz Laugh, if you can, and the world laughs with you. If, however, they look like they're going to stck their thumb in your eye, launch. Massive retaliation. Makes 'em gun shy.

237 Cowboy Junkies I was playing them, just two days ago or so. Love them.

238 Posted by: blaster at March 20, 2013 08:41 AM (/1U3u)

A taste of life behind the Iron Curtain.

My SIL got CPSed by someone unknown. And she was super-mom, so it made no sense. But the process was vile.

239 Blaster- I have knowledge of family courts through a relative who works in family law. People who know don't think you are nuts.

240 We've fucked up as a country in the past, and eventually figured it out... Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on January 16, 1919 Twenty-first Amendment to the United States Constitution on December 5, 1933 Fourteen fucking years of Prohibition.

241 Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 20, 2013 08:41 AM (WVMUQ) Just shrug it off. It doesn't matter.

242 Messaging has nothing to do with it: it's a principles problem. The GOP is supposed to be the adult in the room; it isn't acting that way. What are adults supposed to do? Figure that out and then do it. While Republicans are at it: how do adults talk? how do adults talk to misbehaving children and/or other adults who are acting childishly? Hint: pretending that the whole world needs to be like the set from Leave It to Beaver ain't it, but neither is trying to be the class "cool" Mom and Dad...we're talking how real adults act here, not messaging and PR (which, how's that workin' for ya by the way?)

243

"Plus these bitches cave on every single showdown with the Democrats"

Exactly right. I'd add: where are the GOP proposals? What is the GOP moving on? Or is today's GOP just a pile of simpering cowards, warming themselves w/their own p*ss as the worry about what "the press" will say about them today?

Anyone?

Beuller?

Stand for something, or you stand for nothing.

244 223 I disagree with Gabriel. It IS a policy problem. The GOP is supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility and smaller, less intrusive government, yet they grow the debt and the size of governmen whenever they're in power.

Plus these bitches cave on every single showdown with the Democrats. Even with Obamacare, there was little hell raising and serious attempt to kill the other side politically for ramming that piece of shit through. Fine, you can't stop it--MAKE THEM PAY THE PRICE FOR IT.

They don't fight for our interests; they believe in nothing; they stand for nothing. This party is shit. And I am not a part of it anymore.

Posted by: Warden at March 20, 2013 08:38 AM (0DlnM)

 
They are complicit , look how they attack Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.

They want their bloated government positions.

245 Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 20, 2013 08:44 AM (XYSwB)

Yup!

I can listen to Trinity Sessions for hours.

246 @227 THANKS!

247 There seems at some times to be no limit at all to the vile invective one can hurl at a commenter until you touch just the right person's special spot and then get banned.

Is this the "g-spot"?

248 I can listen to Trinity Sessions for hours. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:45 AM (3Mkrp)

I always thought that album title sounded like the name of a porn star from Indiana.

249 And when I say, "take a pricipled stand", see Warden at 223.

250 Messaging has nothing to do with it: it's a principles problem.

It's both.  The messaging is sub-par, and they have no principles other than "save my phoney baloney job".

251

expect some cultural bias no matter how clever he is. And he is clever.

 

Indeed. 

Trapping Ewok is not for the feeble minded.  They are crafty little critters. In fact if it wasn't for their only weakness, the garbage of a sitting Senator, they'd be near impossible to keep in check.

252 Putting on the Ritz is indelibly linked to Young Frankenstein

253 Fourteen fucking years of Prohibition. And 80 years of Kennedys.

254 We need the "One Dollar Less" party. You know, the one that actually advocates cuts in Government spending. Because the messaging won't be that hard on that one. It's only when we keep playing the "cut this spending, but spend more on our stuff (including the planned increases on what we just cut)" game that it gets all out of whack. Cut all the damned, pork, not just "theirs". We just cut $85B from future planned increases. And the sitting President of the United States directed public servants to make the citizenry pay for those cuts (via his sequester) through the most painful means possible. The end of the world, etc. If we (over here right of center big we) can't figure out a way to fight that battle (complicit media or not), well...LiB becomes MiB real quick.

255

#244: "They want their bloated government positions"

There's more truth in that single line than most realize.

256 When the fundamental issue facing the country is 2+2=4 and the media responds with "7 or possibly 16," the party leadership with "yes, but let us come up with another number and get back to you," the congressional black caucus with "racist," you with "gay marriage," Gabe, and the President with "fore!" the country is going to get the reckoning it deserves.

Elections have consequences.  Having no core principles has consequences.  Willful intellectual dishonesty has consequences.

I'm all out of deep strategic thinking for the future when the die is already cast.

257 The New GOP:  "We're Just Not Wally and Beaver Anymore."  We are now "The Jeffersons" and "Chico and the Man"as well.    

258 They want their bloated government positions. Beats working for a living.

259 Until the leftards recognize the destructiveness of their policies, the fact that they're unhappy with their Magic Negro Messiah means naught. Can't tell you how many times I've heard one of those imbeciles say something like, "Obama actually has governed more like a moderate republican". I don't what they expect to see....work camps?.....

260 Or is today's GOP just a pile ofsimpering cowards, warming themselves w/their own p*ss as the worry about what "the press" will say about them today?
Anyone?
Beuller?
Stand for something, or you stand for nothing.

Posted by: Jess1 at March 20, 2013 08:45 AM (lbiWb)

It's difficult to overstate what a miserable disappointment Boehner has been.  I have no idea why he even wanted the fucking job because he shows no sign of being comfortable in a leadership position.  For being an egomaniacal asshole, Newt at least understood the soapbox that he possessed and didn't shrink from articulating Republican (and, unfortunately, ultimately other) positions to any place where there's a camera.  Of course that offended the RINOs who formed a common cause with the donks to get him the fuck out of there.  Boehner just wants to chain smoke Pall Malls, drink Kesslers and golf.  To Hell with him.

261 "The GOP is supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility and smaller, less intrusive government, yet they grow the debt and the size of government whenever they're in power." That's because the establishment doesn't want smaller government. they didn't go to all the trouble of getting elected to reduce their power. The bulk of the GOPs base is there because the democrats are the official party of government. Most of the GOP doesn't understand that, they want badly to be part of the ruling elites club but they've been mostly banished because the conservatives rocked the boat. So the GOP is clueless about their own supporters. the Dems understand their's and what it takes to turn their client groups and grievance industries out. The basic democrat tactic is to scare the fuck out of their base with stories of what the evil repubs will do to them, the GOP has tried to copy that tactic post Reagan but guess what it doesn't work on their base.

262 :::228 I think it funny every time I see someone complain about the tone of comments anyone (Ace) makes on this blog. There seems at some times to be no limit at all to the vile invective one can hurl at a commenter until you touch just the right person's special spot and then get banned. Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 20, 2013 08:41 AM (WVMUQ):;;; Zip it, whore.

263 They want their bloated government positions.

That's because they truly don't believe it could all come crashing down...at least within their lifetimes where they'd care.

Empires such as ours, collapse very fast once it starts.

264 I keed, typo. I keed.

265

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama said at the start of his first official visit to Israel on Wednesday that the U.S. commitment to the security of the Jewish state was rock solid and that peace must come to the Holy Land.

"I see this visit as an opportunity to reaffirm the unbreakable bond between our nations, to restate America's unwavering commitment to Israel's security and to speak directly to the people of Israel and to your neighbors," Obama said at a welcoming ceremony at Tel Aviv airport.

"We stand together because peace must come to the Holy Land," Obama said.

Barry, that line of bullshit only works here.

266 The GOP needs to become more moderate on social issues, tell extreme hawks like Graham and McCain to cool it, and hold the Democrats responsible for their extremists. That would go a long way toward improving the image of the party and hurting that of the Dems.

267 Zip it, whore.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 08:52 AM (l+kmq)

Papist.

268 #260 = spot on.

269 Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 20, 2013 08:41 AM (WVMUQ) I hear what you are saying, but the banhammer was earned on this one. I was on the thread when it happened, and it basically went down like this: Gabe: "I prefer cheerios over cornflakes" GenW: "Fuck you and your faggoty cheerio-eating lawyer ass Gabe. You fucking limp-wristed cocksucking bastards are what's wrong with this country." Note: Not word for word quotes, but damn close.

270 12 This is where noted blowhard Bill O'Reilly has a point. It's about culture. The GOP is always going to be a punchline because tye-dyed 60s hippies have made it their life's work to make it so. They have corrupted the culture. - And because no publicly identifiable important mass of people can say of the GOP "they may be bastards but they are our bastards, and they deliver the goods for us." The GOP does not deliver the goods. Pro-lifers have supported it since Reagan to get Roe v. Wade struck down. At what point may they expect results, please? If you have a strong, united, important mass of people who for sure know you deliver the goods for them, you have more resistance (not immunity) to media corrosion. If nobody (other than millionaires with a taste for cheap illegal labor) really has much of a stake in you anyway, getting a consensus that you are creepy and evil is much easier.

271 O/T on Drudge: Bethlehem rioters set fire to pictures of Obama. Go Team Israel!

272 U.S. President Barack Obama said at the start of his first official visit to Israel on Wednesday that the U.S. commitment to the security of the Jewish state was rock solid and that peace must come to the Holy Land.

Then why did the White House put out an official trip map showing about 70% of current Israel as belonging to various Arab states?

273 Go Team Israel!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 20, 2013 08:56 AM (GFM2b)

It was the Pallies.

274 CBD: You'd think the Pallies would realize Obama was on their side.

275 Obama , I'm your father.

276 All ACC Finals. Duke vs. Miami, with Duke beating Miami. Doesn't sound so good now that I post it out loud but the sheet has already been turned in.

277 Then why did the White House put out an official trip map showing about 70% of current Israel as belonging to various Arab states? Wishful thinking?

278 Screw the GOP. But I saw that Me-262 in the sidebar at an airshow in Tyler last weekend, awesomely cool! It's going to be seen at airshows around Texas the next couple of months, and other places where Collings sends it's planes. btw, it's traveling with a B-17, B-24, and the most beautiful P-51 I've ever seen.

279

@209 CBD

 

I still think you and I are in agreement after all. I agree with your point that the founders did not expect every individual to exercise liberty in a responsible way. If they had that expectation, there would have been no reason for a Constitution, or even a government. I believe they expected that there would be individual consequences for individual behavior, which I am calling responsibility. Where consequences of poor choices fall on someone other than the one who exercised the poor choice, responsibility is lacking and liberty dies. E.g., "To each according to his need..."

280 I couldn't agree mire with Skylia's sidebar post. Also I didn't follow the case closely but there were some cons who were following it, focusing on how wrong it was that the jock's cheerleading squad were harrassed or whatever by the media. And citing the Duke case as proof this was an effed up case as if the Duke case typified rape cases. Who gives a fuck about anyone who shared the vids or laughed along with the perps? They are part if the problem. Pack mentality animals.

281 Posted by: Ian S. at March 20, 2013 08:56 AM (OevbG)

Because if it was up to Obama and the state department they would be building gas chambers in Israel and inviting the Arabs to drop the first Zyklon B pellet.

282 Papist. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:55 AM (3Mkrp)

That's "Filthy Papist" to you, bub.

283

"The GOP does not deliver the goods"

Exactly so. "Hey, we didn't let the Dems take all your stuff, just 90% of it" isn't going to win diddly, regardless of any "messaging" or "social media plans" or whatever.

Here's my challenge - can anyone list for me the top say, five priorities of the GOP today (and "battling the democrats on whatever doesn't count)?

What does the GOP stand for? I honestly do not know. Do you?

284 CBD: You'd think the Pallies would realize Obama was on their side.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 20, 2013 08:58 AM (OevbG)

When was the last time those vermin ever did anything in their self interest?  Take your time because it will be a difficult search.

285 It was the Pallies. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 08:57 AM (3Mkrp)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

286 How to make the GOP less of a punchline? Support the creation of Broadcast media which is not under the control of Democrats.

287   The 'John Boehner Syndrome' could be construed as a messaging problem.

288 Scores of protesters gathered near Manger Square and threw shoes at a US diplomatic vehicle as it arrived at the scene as part of preparations for ObamaÂ’s visit to the city later this week.

The protesters also set fire to signs posted in the city earlier this week reminding Obama that Palestinians still donÂ’t have 3G communications technology.

Similar anti-Obama demonstrations are expected to take place in Ramallah and other Palestinian cities in the coming days.





The MFM gleefully reported this stuff when it was anti-Bush let's see how the ignore it now that it's about their boyfriend

289 Has the JEF asked the Israelis to wear gold stars when they meet with him?

290 When was the last time those vermin ever did anything in their self interest? Take your time because it will be a difficult search.

I forget who said that the Pallies "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity", but I'm still amazed at how oblivious they are sometimes.

291 Re# 269 The truth can be a bitter pill.

292 As soon as we lost in 2008, a lot of people - especially bloggers, started wailing about how if we didn't be come donk-lite we would be out of power for 30 years or for-evah!!!11!! Bullshit. This country swings from republican to democrat commie, every 2-3 election cycles. Demanding a sea change or wallowing in despair is silly.

293 Pretty tough to rebrand "crap" Crap stinks no matter what you do with it. Once it gets on you the you stink until you get rid of it. The Republicans are willing participants for a reason, they get something out of their submission in the form of pork so they get re elected. Once we get treated like Cypress and can no longer borrow, then things will change. I would watch Carson, Rubio, Paul, and Cruz. If these guys can't show a better life for people than what welfare has to offer, and make that image stick, then all the CRAP floats away.

294 Posted by: MarkW at March 20, 2013 08:58 AM (NVDWF)

Then we have a simple disagreement with the word "responsibility."

Now get off my lawn!

295 :::Because if it was up to Obama and the state department they would be building gas chambers in Israel and inviting the Arabs to drop the first Zyklon B pellet.::; It's got what Jews crave.

296

Its not just a media problem, it is also that we put the same dick lickers in power ourselves. Look at boner and mclame. This house had a chance to get a new speaker, but they pussed out and let the weepy bastard stay. Ya, we did that to ourselves.

 

297 Posted by: Ian S. at March 20, 2013 09:01 AM (OevbG)

Abba Eban...I think.

298 The GOP needs to become more moderate on social issues, tell extreme hawks like Graham and McCain to cool it, and hold the Democrats responsible for their extremists. That would go a long way toward improving the image of the party and hurting that of the Dems. Posted by: Jon at March 20, 2013 08:55 AM (jr5Bn) The problem with GOP election prospects has nothing to do with the stand of it's membership on the issues. It has to do with the fact that everyone who works in the News and Media industries is a partisan Democrat, who refuses to let the GOP message reach the voters without being accompanied by distortion and/or ridicule. Trying to make the GOP "Democrat-lite" is not only not going to help the nation, it is going to guarantee losses to the real Democrats. We are being riddled by machine gun fire from the Democrat Media complex, and some of you think we just need to move to a different position, like they aren't going to shoot at us in that location too?

299 213 GOP needs to fight not cower. Why do you think lefties all of a sudden started liking Rand Paul. Anthony.Weiner will be back. Posted by: blaster at March 20, 2013 08:36 AM (/1U3u) So he's standing for what he believes in... makes him a coward. Ok. He's a libertarian, what did you expect? Oh that's right, you expected duplicitous red meat throwing.

300 Got any interesting stories about Jack Webb or Broderick Crawford?

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 08:42 AM (tOkJB)

I used to like Highway Patrol even though they drove those ugly Buicks in the show.  But the show didn't last long because Crawford was an alcoholic and could not stay sober long enough to do the show.

301 @269 Jeez, sorry I missed that. What's really wrong with this country started when the nuclear family got dissed out of style. All kinds o' s**t comes in to replace it. "Marry" your ice machine? Why not? What's really wrong with this country started when they were able to convince the American housewife that they could make a better cake in Minneapolis, put it in a box and send it over the rails, and make her use the eggs of her own hens to add to their powder, than she could at home. We are a people with a government, and not the other way round. You want people, you don't get them from the ice machine.

302 CBD and Bannion,

Did you guys find any .45 ACP ammo using that bot page I linked yesterday?

303 Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 09:00 AM (sbV1u)

Defacing a photo of Obama.

Isn't that drone-strike worthy?

304 This is why I think all polls suck. Anything that assigns Bud Light a position other than piss bucket filler is bull shit. http://is.gd/jPKggC Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 06:55 AM (53z96) Bud Light, the piss you drink after all the good shit is gone.

305 Isn't that drone-strike worthy? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:07 AM (3Mkrp) Good enough for a signature strike.

306 Posted by: EC at March 20, 2013 09:06 AM (GQ8sn)

Yes, but it was 230 grain FMJ.

I'm looking for 185 or 230 HP.

The site is great though...thanks for the link.

307 161 "A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers." -Ronald Reagan - Practically everybody who has been important in the GOP since Reagan opposed him when we was a live issue. Including Mitt Romney. A lot of people in the GOP base would like it to be the party of Reagan. But it's not.

308 We don't have a messaging problem, we have an electorate problem. The votes just aren't there. It's going to get much worse.

309 Did you guys find any .45 ACP ammo using that bot page I linked yesterday? Posted by: EC at March 20, 2013 09:06 AM (GQ8sn)

Yup!  Ordered some yesterday at about half the cost of what my previous order was.  Thanks very much.

310 FWIW, excellent bit by Michael Walsh @ The Corner. While I don't agree w/every name he drops, his central message is spot on. Whimpering like whipped curs in a darkened corner crying about "low information voters" or "FSA" shows the GOP as deserving of every drop of scorn possible...

311 The GOP's image problem is a result of liberal control of the MSM. So any strategy to change the GOP's image has to deal with that fact.

312 I used to like Highway Patrol even though they drove those ugly Buicks in the show. One of the UHF channels in D/FW was showing Highway Patrol at 4:00 am. Thanks Mr. Insomnia.

313 I used to like Highway Patrol even though they drove those ugly Buicks in the show. But the show didn't last long because Crawford was an alcoholic and could not stay sober long enough to do the show. Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:05 AM (53z96) I'm surprised anyone remembers that show.

314 @303 Sadly, Bethlehem these days is a target-rich environment for drones. People who know me well know what nearly happened to me in the mall in downtown Bethlehem. (And, imho, you'd have to be crazy to think you'd want to attack me, from looking at me.) Those kids that sliced up the hikers were from Bethlehem.

315 Posted by: Jess1 at March 20, 2013 09:08 AM (lbiWb) We alternate between chest thumping and nihilism like a pendulum.

316 Practically everybody who has been important in the GOP since Reagan opposed him when we was a live issue. Including Mitt Romney.

A lot of people in the GOP base would like it to be the party of Reagan. But it's not.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at March 20, 2013 09:08 AM (hiqUE)

The country clubbers hated Reagan and are determined that nobody like him will ever happen again.

317 I'm surprised anyone remembers that show.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 20, 2013 09:09 AM (bb5+k)

I just dethatched my lawn so nobody can get on it.

318 Yup! Ordered some yesterday at about half the cost of what my previous order was. Thanks very much.

You guys are welcome!  Glad you found some stuff.

319 ::::So he's standing for what he believes in... makes him a coward. Ok. He's a libertarian, what did you expect? :::/ If he was so brave about standing for what he believes in, then he'd be running as a Libertarian candidate, instead of taking advantage of the GOP brand, wouldn't he?

320 Republican leadership never fights. Ever. It's all compromise so they make it look like they have no bedrock principles. And because it's obvious they have no principles the Dims can assign any value to Republicans they wish because the Dims actually fight tooth and nail, hammer and tong for every single crummy bit of legislation they support. Boehner got the leadership of the House by promising to stop Obamacare. Has he made step one(defunding) toward that effort? No. Remember when Boehner told Obama to forget his gun bill cuz it was dead on arrival? Neither do I. The Dims do what they say they're going to do. The Republican leadership fights the base tooth and nail hammer and tong to avoid doing what they were voted in office to do. We're led by cowards and liars. You want a Republican party that's not a joke? Vote out every Boehner/Cornyn/McCain/Lindsay Dim-lite in the primaries and find someone conservative who will fight. Defeat every Karl Rove candidate possible in the primaries to show his style of big spending compromise is unwelcome. Don't be a party of whipped dogs. Fight. And win.

321 I just dethatched my lawn so nobody can get on it. Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:10 AM (53z96)

So you're saying people could get on it before?

Not that I'd try or anything....

322

@EoJ CBD, et al.

 

Ace started out making a good point about religion.  Then some of us pushed back with nuance, and he lost it, and just started lashing out in really weird ways. He took something I said generally speaking and turned it in to basically "well you want to make laws about everything!"

 

Which, given many of the posts I've made here is...well...fundamentally misunderstanding my basic position. (Which is that the law actually harms morality, blah blah blah.)

 

This seems to be a recurring theme in my life however, people decrying that's "bullshit." and my response of "well actually it's nuance."

If this theme holds (like it did for my soon to be former job) I expect a banning in about 3 weeks .*

 

*I don't actually expect that, I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of the other half of my life.

323 - Practically everybody who has been important in the GOP since Reagan opposed him when we was a live issue. Including Mitt Romney. A lot of people in the GOP base would like it to be the party of Reagan. But it's not. Posted by: Chromoly Man at March 20, 2013 09:08 AM (hiqUE) And it started with GW Bush. Thanks for that Reagan quote. It is so common sensical that it is readily apparent that Reagan said it. Where did that common sense go?

324 The country clubbers hated Reagan and are determined that nobody like him will ever happen again.

Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 09:10 AM (79k3T)

Yes, they wouldn't want to emulate a failure like that. Best to go with winners like Dole, McCain, etc.

325 We don't have a messaging problem, we have an electorate problem. The votes just aren't there. It's going to get much worse. Posted by: Closing time at March 20, 2013 09:08 AM (/0DF2) We have both an Electorate problem, and an inability to get our message TO the electorate without going through the gauntlet of Democrat Media operatives intent on obscuring, ridiculing or twisting our message. If we could take over a media outlet and then refuse to work with any of the others, many of our electoral problems would solve themselves.

326 The GOP needs to change its name to get rid of its baggage. It worked when a branch of the Communist party changed themselves into "Progressives".

327 If he was so brave about standing for what he believes in, then he'd be running as a Libertarian candidate, instead of taking advantage of the GOP brand, wouldn't he? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:11 AM (l+kmq) He has not been coy at all with respect to this, other than not openly bashing conservatives. He openly talks about bringing in more libertarians. And you're worried about libertarians abusing the GOP "brand"? You mean ever since Bill Buckley made the fusion long ago? Or since the GOP is complete sell outs when it comes to big govt?

328 298 The problem with GOP election prospects has nothing to do with the stand of it's membership on the issues. It has to do with the fact that everyone who works in the News and Media industries is a partisan Democrat, who refuses to let the GOP message reach the voters without being accompanied by distortion and/or ridicule. - And the GOP is absolutely fine with that. It even keeps encouraging the leftist mass media to rule its debates. Instapundit, who's a genius even if he is a libertarian, keeps pushing "Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!" and related memes. That's exactly right. The GOP has displayed no interest. That's a party that deserves to lose.

329 @325 Christie's not only a fat bottom, he rims, too! You'll love him.

330 So you're saying you just don't want any libertarian ideas in the GOP? That's abuse right?

331 I used to like Highway Patrol even though they drove those ugly Buicks in the show. Heh. I loved those big old ugly cars "with holes in them." They made the show for me.

332 The GOP's image problem is a result of liberal control of the MSM. So any strategy to change the GOP's image has to deal with that fact. Posted by: JohnJ at March 20, 2013 09:09 AM (Tt6ky) Yes. People keep thinking the Democrat Media complex will stop hurting them if they just change positions. They do not understand the nature of Liberal sadists.

333 310 I agree. I'm pretty sick of the wallowing, too. The best thing I can think of for messaging is to take back some of the words the left has stolen, and use them properly. Empower is a good one. Hammer on the way that school choice empowers parents to educate their kids, how Dem policies trap poor and minority students.

334 If he was so brave about standing for what he believes in, then he'd be running as a Libertarian candidate, instead of taking advantage of the GOP brand, wouldn't he? -------- ^This. The filibuster was a good gesture, but on the whole he seems to be pandering to certain people the way his dad did.

335 I guess the terrorists Democrats have won then.

336 Republican leadership never fights. Ever. Posted by: naturalfake at March 20, 2013 09:11 AM (G9qZk) And anyone who does gets called hobbits and wacko birds.

337 #310  Low information voters exist because of the following:

1. No cable news.  (People like some in my family who have gone to Netflix or Roku and opted out of the monthly bill to Comcast.)

2. People who are too darn busy to watch news or look it up on the internet. (These are soccer moms, people working 2-3 jobs, people working long hours.)

3. People who are poorly educated who do not understand the connection between politics and their daily lives.  They instead invest their time in learning all of the Kardashian trivia or sports scores.

The problem we have is getting the message out to these people.  Obama appeared on a lot of non-political shows and in magazines like Ladies Home Journal and Sports Illustrated (which the magazines were glad to provide).

Kurt Schilchter's article on a "Bite Me" coalition is sort of like what I said a few days ago.  The country is made up of people of all stripes who basically do not like to be bossed around, no matter their income level or ethnicity.  We need to reach those low information voters with that message,  and we need to do it without contempt for their lack of knowledge.

338 You can disagree with a libertarian without maligning his/her intentions. I don't malign SoCon's intentions. Do me a favor and reciprocate.

339 Over at Denninger's place: CNBC now talking about confiscation in US (Cyprus style) http://tinyurl.com/d7xvoza

340 The country clubbers hated Reagan and are determined that nobody like him will ever happen again. Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 09:10 AM (79k3T) This I believe. They hated Reagan. And they have fucked up everything they've touched since Reagan.

341

@Sean Bannion,

 

Re: Master's in theology.

I personally never thought we were supposed to understand it alone .  I have at least 3-4 interlocutors on these topics I'm regularly arguing with.

Arguably we all specialize in different things and try to get somewhere closer to the truth with each argument.

Ironically I'm more of a self-trained theologian in this regard (although it works because my particular specialty is the intersection of faith and secularism in this group.)  When we go to the big CHA meeting (in 4 hours no less) I will inevitably be looked down upon by everyone there for lacking my MA though.

It's OK, I return the favor by constantly reminding them how naïve and insulated they are in their little bubble.  Who predicted the Levathan Government stabbing us in the back after we "helped them?" This guy.  Who predicted the use of palliative care methods to push euthanasia on the unwilling (i.e. the crap over in Britain with the Liverpool protocol?)  This guy. I'm 2 for 2 baby! The MA crowd can suck it.

342 I know this trick. I start a reply late in the thread and by the time I hit post, everybody has moved to the next thread. I'm not falling for it. No comment!

343 I asked you this yesterday but the thread was already dead.

Got any interesting stories about Jack Webb or Broderick Crawford?

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 08:42 AM (tOkJB)

 

Crawford, no.  I do have some bits about Webb, though, especially his transformation from second-string lead in Sunset Boulevard to Dragnet.  Let me see what I can do.

344 I just dethatched my lawn so nobody can get on it. Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:10 AM (53z96) Ha! Do you happen to remember a show called "Whirly Birds"?

345 Reagan dealt with the MFM.  Hell he was a staple of "All in the Family" as Archie Bunker's idea of a good candidate (he pronounced him "Reegan") after he offended the party swells by running in the 1976 primary against that hapless dunce Ford.  So he took his message directly to the people and stressed the optimism that conservatism brings to peoples' lives.  I think Romney tried to use the optimistic approach; he just wasn't a very popular candidate otherwise and was shackled by RomneyCare which he could never convincingly refute.

346 Instapundit, who's a genius even if he is a libertarian, keeps pushing "Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!" and related memes. That's exactly right.

The GOP has displayed no interest. That's a party that deserves to lose.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at March 20, 2013 09:15 AM (hiqUE)

Lot of low hanging fruit GOP fumbles away. Almost like it's intentional.

347 316 The country clubbers hated Reagan and are determined that nobody like him will ever happen again. - They've certainly done their bit to ensure that the next super-conservative Republican president won't be from that right-wing stronghold, California.

348 Ironically I'm more of a self-trained theologian in this regard (although it works because my particular specialty is the intersection of faith and secularism in this group.) When we go to the big CHA meeting (in 4 hours no less) I will inevitably be looked down upon by everyone there for lacking my MA though. Posted by: tsrblke at March 20, 2013 09:18 AM (GaqMa

I consistently find that the best apologists for the faith are exactly that....self-trained.

349 Posted by: tsrblke at March 20, 2013 09:12 AM (GaqMa)

I don't know Ace's background, but if he grew up around here, his animosity toward religion is understandable.

I see it everywhere, and I find it maddeningly ignorant.

The first Born-Again Christian I ever met was a man from the Central Valley of California. he would go out every day onto the streets of Berkeley, find a bum, bring him to our student co-op for dinner, and then help him wash up and try to get him presentable.

No preaching or proselytizing: just demonstrating kindness toward his fellow man.

So when I hear people reflexively bad-mouth religion, I get pissed off.

350 I do not disagree that the leftist media and weak representatives like Boehner are a big part of the problem, but some of it does have to do with the party's positions. That's the uncomfortable truth.

351 The GOP needs to change its name to get rid of its baggage. It worked when a branch of the Communist party changed themselves into "Progressives". Posted by: Pyrocles at March 20, 2013 09:14 AM (cv5Iw) The Democrat Media complex won't allow our side to get away with it. Hell, they're still reminding the public about the Birchers. They will make sure everyone knows that we are still the same ole evil party in spite of the new name.

352 Hey Gabe, eat something while you are on the road, you skinny little asshole.

353 I am not obviously miserable. Hey, I finally bought the famed SAS Survival Guide. It's pretty good, although I already wish I had bought one that only covered American terrain, trees, plants, etc. I don't plan to ever bug out to Europe or Africa. All that info I'll never use gets in the way of the useful info. And the damned thing weighs about 3 pounds. I understand that it's meant to survive plane wrecks, etc. but that's a LOT of weight for the pack. If I'm gonna put something that heavy in my pack, I'd better be able to eat it or wear it.

354 He's probably vegan. Needs moar bacon.

355 The GOP's problem is that they keep trying moving left. This is not the first time they've done this, nor will it be the last. But one thing is true, every time they try it they end up losing hard. Take a look back, to the pre Reagan 70s and then go forward. When the GOP stands on limited government, free market, sound fiscal policies. They win. When they start doing the Bush/McCain/Romney "Well it's only a little bit more government" shtick...they lose. Only a blind man can't see it.

356 ::::Ace started out making a good point about religion.:::: Actually, I thought he made a good point about human nature as regards religion: that people are complicated. That they often knowingly contradict their professed values. It's not novel, but it's central to the basis of Christianity - that man is imperfect and needs Christ's sacrifice to redeem us. So far, nothing shocking going on. All men are sinners, even the Christian ones. Everyone freely admits this. How then, do you turn around and start saying shit like, "We'll if Teh Ghey is so bad, then how come YOU'RE still sinning, huh? HUH?!!!11!1!11" There are plenty of commenters willing to discuss their theology with him, but on this one particular issue, he seems to think that his humanistic understanding of Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, is sufficient to the task of defining morality. He's insulting to the very people who bend over backwards to share their beliefs respectfully.

357

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:22 AM (3Mkrp)

 

With all due respect CBD, the band wagon effect is no excuse for the award winning blogger when we're busy trying to stop that nationally.

 

Also, re: the other half of your story: heh I wish I had that much trust in my fellow man.

358 I see it everywhere, and I find it maddeningly ignorant. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:22 AM (3Mkrp)

Yeah, I'd agree that when Ace goes after religion that he's maddeningly ignorant.

Which is odd, because when he opines on other topics of which he is similarly ignorant, he's usually pretty humble in listening to the feedback from people with an expertise.

359 337 Those are great points. We do need to work more with entertainment media, and fight the urge to separate off into little bubbles of Certified Christian Conservative Media. The tendency to form bubbles is part of why I get annoyed when people (especially those without kids) start yammering about how all.of us should home school. Not that I have a problem with homeschooling in general; it's great for lots of people, but the bubble thing is a risk

360 Trying to make the GOP "Democrat-lite" is not only not going to help the nation, it is going to guarantee losses to the real Democrats. We are being riddled by machine gun fire from the Democrat Media complex, and some of you think we just need to move to a different position, like they aren't going to shoot at us in that location too? Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 20, 2013 09:04 AM (bb5+k) - I just wanted to say, that was really well said, DiogenesLamp.

361 It's not a messaging problem. It's a media problem.
Posted by: mugiwara at March 20, 2013 06:52 AM (hpYnL)

^^^^^  This


It IS a messaging problem in that the Media distorts and censors the actual message.

None of what Republicans say is presented in the same way that liberal Ideas and plans are presented.

We all know from reading that our opinions and feelings about the characters in a book can be manipulated by a skilled writer.

Double Ditto for a skilled Director/writer of a video/movie.

Why wouldn't anyone suspect that the reason for the Republicans bad reputation and their low opinion by others isn't a function of purposeful misleading framing by a liberal media.

Forget the messaging, the GOP needs to concentrate on ways to minimize or eliminate this disparity. Until then they are fighting an overwhelming adversary that speaks to the pubic 24/7 and has no compunction about the distortion and lies it spreads about the GOP and conservatism.

362 And the GOP is absolutely fine with that. It even keeps encouraging the leftist mass media to rule its debates. Instapundit, who's a genius even if he is a libertarian, keeps pushing "Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!" and related memes. That's exactly right. The GOP has displayed no interest. That's a party that deserves to lose. Posted by: Chromoly Man at March 20, 2013 09:15 AM (hiqUE) You are right about Glenn Reynolds. Though I dislike Libertarians, he makes a lot of sense when he's not on his Libertarians soapbox. It is long past time for us to have gone after our Political enemies supporters by using the power of the congress and the law to hurt them financially. He is exactly right. We should repeal the Hollywood tax cuts, and we should make sure everyone knows that we are simply restoring things to the way they were before Hollywood received that massive tax break. People who advocate high taxes for others should not be shielded from the consequences of their own ideas.

363 Maybe when people start believing in themselves again things will turn around.  That and term limits.  There are some in DC that are good and decent people, but when I can only tick off a handful, they need to be sent packing without lifetimes crazy benefits none of us can afford to gift them.

Right now there is pride in getting what is not rightfully yours - top to bottom.  How do you right that ship when shame is gone and pride is demonized?

364

So when I hear people reflexively bad-mouth religion, I get pissed off.

 

 

ORGANIZED religion, for the most part, sucks and falls far short of it's intended purpose: a place to come together in order to formulate a battle-plan for taking the Message into the world. Individually, as you demonstrated through your example, is in my opinion, far more powerful these days.

 

We stopped attending when the pastor chastised our very young daughter for walking in the aisle during his sermon. She was interfering with the video of himself.

365 The epitome of ugly


The HP car; the 1955 Buick Century.



http://is.gd/AfC2fq

366

"Lot of low hanging fruit GOP fumbles away. Almost like it's intentional."

It apparently is. Hey, I've got an idea - instead of telling people what we're for, let's argue about the roles of gays and religion in society! That'll win some votes...

367 ::: So you're saying you just don't want any libertarian ideas in the GOP? That's abuse right?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 20, 2013 09:15 AM (FsUAO) :::

 

No, I meant exactly what I said.  And I did not say he "abused"  the GOP brand, but that  he "took advantage"  of it, as in "made use of its advantages."

 

How many Libertarians have been elected to the US Senate?

368 Well for those who partake in such games of chance that do not include such words as 'Go Fish,' tonight's Powerball jackpot should be big enough for a good supply of liquor, booze, Ewok pr0n, moonshine, ammo, bacon, guns, and more pr0n.

Tonight's jackpot is worth an estimated $260 million split over 30 years of payments.  Or a pre-tax lump sum of $161.1 million.

369 I consistently find that the best apologists for the faith are exactly that....self-trained.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 09:22 AM (sbV1u)

 

True story:

I'm at the annual bioethics conference 1-2 years ago (I forget which one was presenting).

They bring in someone (whose fairly well known moral theologian) with MA's PHDs credentials out the wazoo, who gets up and starts talking some gibberish obviously informed by Liberation Theology (it was suggested later to me, that it was also informed by stanley hauerwas)

Anyway, so she gets to this point where some Ivy League College won't give this professor a $50k microscope for his charity clinic in some 3rd would country.  So he just packs up one from his lab and sends it down there, bam stolen. Just like that.

She says "this act of nonviolence..." at which point the crowd is all like.. "wait what? Theft is violence, how can you not understand that.  Violence isn't necessarily physical."

I've seen her 3 times since then (and she's at the conference today) to this day I still don't think she gets it. (A fellow panelist when posed the question just said "we have 10 commandments, this falls under one of them.")

370 the party is a party of rinos now....so i guess they aren't rinos..... i get a call a day from some group affiliated with them begging for money....they are all surprised when i tell them i'm not a republican, i'm a conservative...and then they blab on about how they need my support so they can stop the scoamf......lol.....stop the scoamf? the republicans have enabled him at every turn! LET IT BURN

371 So you're saying you just don't want any libertarian ideas in the GOP? That's abuse right? Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at March 20, 2013 09:15 AM (FsUAO) Libertarians which advocate for allowing States to make up their own minds don't bother me. Libertarians who are in favor of Federal intervention on Social issues do. It is axiomatic that New York and Texas are going to have differences of opinion regarding social issues, and I can live with the fact that New York wants to do things differently. It's this notion that the Feds want to force a universal immoral system on all of us to which I object.

372 FWIW, my impression is that Ace has become much more libertarian/social liberal since the election and DrewM has become more conservative. Guess which shift I prefer.

373 We stopped attending when the pastor chastised our very young daughter for walking in the aisle during his sermon. She was interfering with the video of himself. Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 20, 2013 09:28 AM (UrENZ)

You wouldn't see that in a Catholic Church.

Jus' sayin'

My FIL came back to the Catholic Church after a decades long stint in a megachurch after I asked him a simple question.

"Ever see a Catholic priest driving a Mercedes SLK350?"

374 You can disagree with a libertarian without maligning his/her intentions. ----- I disagree with them on plenty and I am a libertarian. I think on a personal level they're a flaky bunch. Wouldn't really want to hang out with one but thats mainly because preaching to choirs isn't my bag baby.

375 Looks like I lucked out by missing the threads yesterday afternoon and evening when my power went out.

376 Hey CBD, no Ben dump so might as well do a car thread!

377 Two problems. 1. Dishonest media 2. Dishonest party leaders Solution: Torch 'em both and start over from scratch. Sorry, but I'm not interested in trying to save what's already gone.

378 GOP - Grow a freakin' backbone.

379 How many Libertarians have been elected to the US Senate? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:30 AM (CJjw5) How many elected Republican senators are actually standing up to the SCOAMT and the progressives? 3? 4? Does that include Rand? GOP is a fusionist party. You don't like it? Good luck with <40% of the vote each year. Maybe the GOP can codify its corporatism tendencies and make it part of their platform.

380 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:24 AM (l+kmq)

His point was based on an assumption that there is a hierarchy of sins, and that the ones most of us have no intention of committing (homosexual sex) has magically become the worst one.

My knowledge of Christianity is incomplete, but I think his assumption is incorrect. However is arguments were interesting from my perspective of passive observation after the fact.

But...he is obviously anti-religion, and he veers into emotionalism very quickly.

381 Ha! Do you happen to remember a show called "Whirly Birds"? Yep. There's no IMDB listing for it but I remember watching it. It lasted one or two seasons -- I think it was a follow on to Sky King but didn't work. IIRC the pilot flew an H-13. Or maybe a Hiller Killer.

382 "Ever see a Catholic priest driving a Mercedes SLK350?"

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 09:31 AM (sbV1u)

 

Yes actually, but he's the President of a certain university (With a high NCAA ranking, but not on the coast), well known to be crazy/drunk on power, and even has a parody twitter account devoted to him (which hasn't been active since November making me think the administration finally got to the guy running it.  Which is sad.)

 

I'm being coy because I know Marcomm people there, they have a google search set up for this shit so they can come in swoop down and attack.

383

"GOP is a fusionist party. You don't like it? Good luck with <40% of the vote each year. Maybe the GOP can codify its corporatism tendencies and make it part of their platform"

 That's gold right there.

Heh.

384 Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:32 AM (53z96)

Yeah, about that.

I took unwitting advantage of some gaps in the coblogger's posting schedule.

I'm just a guest, and need to show a bit more respect for the cobs.

Maybe on the weekend.....

385 Posted by: Captain Hate at March 20, 2013 09:20 AM (79k3T) Reagan had a rare talent for this. I think much of his skill was the result of his experience as an actor. I have no doubt he worked to hone his ability to communicate what he wanted so as to make himself a better actor, and the skills translated perfectly into politics. His like will not come along again soon. Charleton Heston was also pretty good at this.

386 *starts to actually read what is posted as comments and sighs*

Circular firing squad again? 

http://youtu.be/fuMnHItjNEs

387 Tsrbike, can you give me a hint? I love coaches gone wild stories. Reference to team mascot should be enough. Maybe conference if it's a common one.

388 376 Hey CBD, no Ben dump so might as well do a car thread!

Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:32 AM (53z96)

You spoke too soon....Ben hath dumpest.

389 375 Looks like I lucked out by missing the threads yesterday afternoon and evening when my power went out. Posted by: Vic at March 20, 2013 09:31 AM (53z96) Truer words were never written. Even I got really vulgar and got into some really nasty name calling. But it was at Mr. Moo, which makes it okay.

390 I think it was a follow on to Sky King but didn't work. IIRC the pilot flew an H-13. Or maybe a Hiller Killer.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 09:33 AM (tOkJB)

I remember Sky King.  I actually met the star of that show (Kirby Grant) once down in Daytona Beach.  But I don't remember Whirley Birds. 

My lawn still vacant except for a shit ton of red red robins all bob bob bobing along.

391 Oh, duh, President not coach. Never mind....Got hoops on the brain this morning.

392 Even I got really vulgar and got into some really nasty name calling. But it was at Mr. Moo, which makes it okay. Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 09:37 AM (tOkJB) Hah. That dude loves to be punished for saying stupid stuff.

393 had a diocesan priest who drove a corvette in the late 70's

394

"Circular firing squad again"

Nope. Some of us are willing to shoot at the other side. Others however (mainstream GOP, for example) do seem willing to include us in that description...

395 With all due respect CBD

Posted by: tsrblke at March 20, 2013 09:25 AM (GaqMa)

Do I have to cut a bitch?

This is AOSHQ.

Respect?

396 This x11110000 Eleventy!

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/343320/fight-michael-walsh

397

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:33 AM (3Mkrp)

 

I think as EoJ noted this is an interesting point he made on human nature as it mixes with religion.  (I just shortened that to "religion" tomayto/tomahto).

 

But you're right, he assumed a doctrinal basis for this.  I commented that I think it's more how flawed individuals approach the problem.  We could do a comparison here about the law.  How the laws I don't like are the "most useless" laws that have nothing to do with holding society together." (Blah blah blah) but that's for another day.

 

Point is, upon being told "yeah this doctrine thing doesn't work like you think it does. He (put less nicely than you did) lashed out into "well aren't you just holier than thou!" mode.  Which made absolutely no sense, especially since many of conceded our vulnerability to the thought process in general, but thought it a) wasn't isolated to religion and b) didn't really affect the final logical outcome.

398 Ace did start out with a decent point, and he wasn't (at that point) talking about what the RCC or any Christian faith teaches, but about how Christians, both as a group overall and as individual morons, were coming across. There are those who do seem to be saying that gay sex is a bigger/worse/less forgivable sin. He did get a little heated and emotional, but he was in good company on that.

399 "Ever see a Catholic priest driving a Mercedes SLK350?"Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 20, 2013 09:31 AM (sbV1u) Yes actually ------ I grew up going to a hippy dippy parish (in commie MD, natch). We had wacky priests, mostly Jesuits, who were very "worldly." One owned a speedboat for cripes sakes. That's what's so impressive about Pope Francis. A Jesuit who's taken a vow of poverty and submitted himself to the poor and needy is really rare.

400

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:39 AM (3Mkrp)

 

Erg... Go screw yourself with your cartoon character phallus?

 

How's that one working?

 

(Meh, I'm trying to be good today, I have to get into ass kissing mode if I want to find a new job during the conference today.)

401

::::GOP is a fusionist party. You don't like it? Good luck with <40% of the vote each year. Maybe the GOP can codify its corporatism tendencies and make it part of their platform::::

 

Ok, then.  That's what I'll do.  Sit in my big corporation building and  act all corporationy and...  make money and stuff.

402 In the seventies and eighties our parish priests all shared a cream-colored Lincoln Town Car. You could spot them coming a mile away, liquor store parking lot was always a safe bet, as was the "old people's restaurant" nearby.

403 At this time it would be wise of the GOP to take up another of Reagan's comments "trust but verify". You want to win social issues? Take up the banner of "I will trust you (with more social/fiscal freedoms) when you can prove to me that your intentions all along are good, in all ways. If you cannot verify this to me, then I'm afraid you are not to be trusted." Same goes for foreign policy. No more name calling, no more stuff like that -- that's bush league Alinsky stuff and it's a big loser; if you're going to play that game with the Dems, then you need to do it the right way, the way that wins. Start behaving like the adults in the room. Grow a real pair and then get out there (it's what Reagan did; he was the adult in the room -- even the much maligned W was capable of that; pick candidate who display that quality). It also fixes your messaging problem; even the media will not be able to run around this with complete success. One caveat: if the GOP itself cannot pass this test, then it will fail with the voters (in fact, this is its problem right now, and yes Romney most definitely didn't help -- because the man could not pass the trust but verify test...and he also has no real balls). And just remember: Obama will not be the opponent in '1; most likely it will be Hillary. A woman who is on record as having communed with the spirit of zombie Eleanor Roosevelt...(come on people).

404 Hey you guys, there's a new post up!

405 Sit in my big corporation building and act all corporationy and... make money and stuff. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:40 AM (CJjw5) Ok guess I better be more clear: Fascism. Crony capitalism. Whatever you want to call what both parties love.

406 That's what's so impressive about Pope Francis. A Jesuit who's taken a vow of poverty and submitted himself to the poor and needy is really rare in the United States.

Posted by: Y-not at March 20, 2013 09:40 AM (5H6zj)

 

FTFY.  I'm told that it's not so rare abroad.  And that Jesuits who reject liberation theology are more common than you'd think.

407 Lib-progs do not think there are any absolutes in cultural and moral areas.  Once you start arguing based on that concept, they have won the debate.

408 Most impotant story of the day is in the sidebar. Pay no attention to my name, there is no bias here.

409 Please don't push Ace too much on religion... I don't want to see Ace become the next Charles Johnson.

410 I have no doubt he worked to hone his ability to communicate what he wanted so as to make himself a better actor, and the skills translated perfectly into politics. He also was under some sort of speaking contract with General Electric and would give speeches at rubber chicken dinners at their many locations. Back in the days before teleprompters. According to my neighbor who attended one he gave an awesome speech, standing ovations from everyone.

411

Hey CBD, no Ben dump so might as well do a car thread!

 

One of my dream cars - the 1933  Isotta-Fraschini:

http://tinyurl.com/c9v3kee

412 In the seventies and eighties our parish priests all shared a cream-colored Lincoln Town Car. You could spot them coming a mile away, liquor store parking lot was always a safe bet, as was the "old people's restaurant" nearby. ---- I was at a catholic school in the 70's. And speaking of cars, the nuns shared an old black car with fins on the back. How we found that out was, a freind and myself were walking down the street when he decided to reach up to an overhanging limb and strip the leaves off a tree for no reason. At that moment a nun was driving past and saw this happen. Pulled over and bitched us out right on the street. Then the following Monday bitched us out again in school in front of the class.

413 I'm told that it's not so rare abroad. And that Jesuits who reject liberation theology are more common than you'd think. --- Maybe, but I've read Francis was chosen as Cardinal specifically because they wanted him to rein in the Jesuits in Argentina. My impression is that the Jesuits have seen themselves as apart from and superior the other orders. They have this reputation as intellectuals and I think that makes them think that virtues like humility do not apply to them.

414 "Ever see a Catholic priest driving a Mercedes SLK350"

I saw a Franciscan monk walking down the street in Assisi wearing Gucci shoes and a very flash Rolex.  Does that count? 

A Catholic Church in my area owns some of the most expensive real estate (a vast swath of it) on which the priest lives in a very nice walled in mansion.  No vows of poverty or living among the most needy there.

415

::::His point was based on an assumption that there is a hierarchy of sins, and that the ones most of us have no intention of committing (homosexual sex) has magically become the worst one.::::

 

Yes, it's an interesting point if you believe that   he's really that stupid.  I don't.

 

Do you honestly think he believes Christians see homosexuality  as the worst sin in the spectrum, simply because we have no intention of committing it?

 

What  about rape?  Murder?  Enslavement?  Are those not worse sins?  Do  Christians see those as lesser sins than  hitting up some boy pussy?  Of course not, and he knows this.  But he argues as if he doesn't, just to score some cheap points off  the very people who won't stoop to the same.

416 On to new fresh thread and abandon old smelly one.

417 Empire of Jeff bringing the Truth Hammer this morning. I like.

418 "And, yes, this is a messaging problem, not a policy one." ...What we got here, is failure, to communicate... Actually, denying policy problem is a foundational fault. Messaging problem? Yes, absolutely when the message is meaningless at best. As if slapping on another coat of paint over the rotten planks helps to sell Republicanism. The problem with the Republican Party is what it became, and despite voter opposition from Republican voters (2010), what the party leadership insists on perpetrating for their own corrupt and fraudulent profiteering, pirating tax funds for their own personal benefits, pocketing bribes from globalist corporations to sponsor legislation against the US citizenry, never sustaining the constitution. When the constitution is so meaningless to the creators of the too-big-to-fail authoritarian DHS & Patriot Act, why would an American citizen, Republican or any Independent, think that those incumbent Republican Leadership politicians support rule of law, or that the old guard Republicans abide by our Bill of Rights and Constitutional Governance while overtaxing the working American citizens, employed or not? Ex: The insanity of denying vitamins available "over the counter" prove McCain and Graham mentally infirm for office, not to mention perverted GOP Leadership. There is a uniting plank, regardless of party affiliation. "Cut My Taxes." Even the most libtard of all Lefties are crying that the biggest corporations not only enjoy tax benefits never afforded small and local businesses, but big businesses fail to pay those taxes owed literally. And the corporate response when caught? "We didn't know there was a tax. We didn't know we had to pay THAT tax." When there is no loophole, act as if there is. It worked for Geithner. -- as if the elitist corporate tax attorneys are ignorant of the law -- as if ignorance of the law is any excuse when the government assails a poor man who is late paying taxes. 'CUT MY TAXES' is every voter's concern every day, every payday, and at the polls. Now that the translation in real life of "tax the rich" hit home across the board to mean, once again, tax everyone except the most wealthy who have always had the financial/legal clout to buy immunity from prosecution, "Cut MY Taxes" messages well. And with that, the obligatory "cut spending" -- cut federal bureaucracies, beginning with the most unconstitutional, offensive AND useless: the TSA lacking "seniority" on the list that includes the EPA, etc. Recall, unpleasant as memory is, that the Republicans prepped the grounds for Obie's "inherited" whiplash vs. ignorant public expectations. Before Obama's election, the GOP doubled the size of our federal debt during the GWB administration. Not only did the GOP make more socialism in government benefit programs (medical -- as if to buy Florida in Bush's re-election, and as if to stave off "universal healthcare initiative"), but the GOP established the federal tax payed financing of the biggest bureaucracy top heavy DHS, two "never ending wars" in the Middle East -- when or if the troops are gone, our drones drone on -- propping up the most corrupt and invalid Karzai government and promoting the most brutal Muslim Brotherhood new Islamist Sunni-Wahhabi theocratic governments throughout the Middle East, destabilizing rather than securing world peace. And then there was TARP. Clueless: When the policy is wrong and the shit hits the fan, micromanage "messaging". That's what ensured the "electability" of McCain's and Romney's potus victories. 225. "Principled Stands" Constitutional Integrity, and Fiscal Integrity.

419 I grew up going to a hippy dippy parish (in commie MD, natch). We had wacky priests, mostly Jesuits, who were very "worldly." One owned a speedboat for cripes sakes. Posted by: Y-not at March 20, 2013 09:40 AM (5H6zj)

I would argue that's not a common occurrence.  (Although with American Jesuits....one really never knows).

However, it is a common occurrence with mega-churches which are more about how to feel good about yourself while making someone else rich, than it is about anything remotely involving God.

That's why my question brought my FIL back.  He knew in his gut that, for all its flaws, the Catholic Church puts most of its money toward necessary programs.  This is doubly true at the parish level.  I've never seen a parish priest live any way other than "modestly." 

420 But he argues as if he doesn't, just to score some cheap points off the very people who won't stoop to the same. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:48 AM (CJjw5)

Why...it's....it's almost as if he's arguing like.....a liberal.

::: gasp :::

Also spot effin' on, EoJ.

421

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:48 AM (CJjw5)

 

 

I just kinda assumed that he figured all of those others sins we at least had a non-zero percentage change of falling into the trap of committing them. (And I sorta boiled them down to their base layers so "murder" is a subset of "rage." which I certainly do have a non-zero temptation for.)

 

To be honest though when his argumentative power drops to mere point scoring I can never follow his logic at all, he might as well be posting "You're wrong, I own the blog so you're wrong" over and over again, because that's all I gathered from his doubling down on his reasoning there.

422 I am a Catholic convert,  who finally came to the decision the year Pope Benedict was elected.  I don't care what anyone else says,  when that little German guy came out on the balcony,  a man who I thought was dour glowed with the love of Christ.

I had bounced from church to church,  various Protestant denominations,  both mainline and independent,  small churches and mega-churches. 

Catholicism has the 2000-year history going right back to Peter and furthermore has a Magesterium so that crackpot ideas do not get widespread dissemination to the faithful.  (I once had a Methodist pastor tell my Bible study group that Jesus had girlfriends.)

Faith is a personal thing,  and while I am happy with the Catholic Church,  I realize that others are walking a different path.  Christianity has to be looked at in the entire history of its existence,  not judged on what views or statements a few people out of billions say.  When looked at historically,  the world is a better place because of Christianity.

423 No preaching or proselytizing: just demonstrating kindness toward his fellow man. So when I hear people reflexively bad-mouth religion, I get pissed off. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 20, 2013 09:22 AM (3Mkrp) And this is the best way to do it. Talking doesn't work. Actions speak louder than words.

424 I do not disagree that the leftist media and weak representatives like Boehner are a big part of the problem, but some of it does have to do with the party's positions. That's the uncomfortable truth. Posted by: Jon at March 20, 2013 09:22 AM (jr5Bn) The only problem with the party's positions is the result of the fact that the Democrat Media complex (I include Liberal Hollywood) have been demonizing it for many decades. The positions reflect natural law, and changing them will not solve the nation's problems.

425 The Jesuits are nothing to scoff. Rather, far more to respect. From a distance... To argue with a Jesuit is to expose one's own ignorance, and to be schooled.

426 I just wanted to say, that was really well said, DiogenesLamp. Posted by: Chromoly Man at March 20, 2013 09:26 AM (hiqUE) Thank you. I make every effort to come up with a better way to explain what I see. Communication is not always so easy as I would wish.

427 To argue with a Jesuit is to expose one's own ignorance, and to be schooled. Posted by: panzernashorn at March 20, 2013 10:00 AM (MhA4j)

Yeah.  Not so much.

I guess you've never heard of the Dominicans.

American Jesuits post-1965 are not the force they used to be.  In fact, they're a joke.

Your argument holds much more water when applied to Jesuits outside of the U.S.  They are, in fact, the real deal.

428 Forget the messaging, the GOP needs to concentrate on ways to minimize or eliminate this disparity. Until then they are fighting an overwhelming adversary that speaks to the pubic 24/7 and has no compunction about the distortion and lies it spreads about the GOP and conservatism. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at March 20, 2013 09:26 AM (Kpn/z) They have a Media Air Force, and we have ground troops. We keep getting strafed by their "Air" force, and we have nothing to knock down their plans, or do the same to their troops. Till we get our own "Air" force, or knock down some of their planes, we are going to continue suffering badly from the withering fire they direct at us.

429 I would argue that's not a common occurrence. (Although with American Jesuits....one really never knows). However, it is a common occurrence with mega-churches ---- Sorry I wasn't clear, I actually agree with your basic point. I just have a somewhat jaded view of American Jesuits, but they are not the sum total of the Catholic Church. And I agree with Miss Marple that Benedict was a good pope. Quite a few people (especially non-Catholics) that I've spoken with seem to assume he wasn't, but I think he was. I guess the anti-RC media really took hold. Pope Francis looks like he'll be very good. I'm hopeful.

430 >>I guess you've never heard of the Dominicans. Heh. Beat me to it.

431 #429  Pope Francis will be a good pope,  but the media will convince a large section of the people that he isn't,  just like they did with Benedict.

I take my Catholicism seriously,  and I am not going to allow it to be defined by Anderson Cooper or Ezra Klein.

432 And I agree with Miss Marple that Benedict was a good pope. Quite a few people (especially non-Catholics) that I've spoken with seem to assume he wasn't, but I think he was. I guess the anti-RC media really took hold. Pope Francis looks like he'll be very good. I'm hopeful. Posted by: Y-not at March 20, 2013 10:04 AM (5H6zj)

My standard for judging good Popes is to do the exact opposite of whatever non-Catholics think.

I kid, but only just barely.

I think Benedict was exceptional, and since he was a peritus at Vatican II, he was the right guy at the right time to keep putting the brakes on all the post-Vatican II BS that had infected the Church....and ruined the American Jesuits.

433 I love the head Ewok, but Catholicism is one of his blind spots.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 20, 2013 07:42 AM (zF6Iw)

 

Amen, I say to you.

434 FWIW, my impression is that Ace has become much more libertarian/social liberal since the election and DrewM has become more conservative. Guess which shift I prefer. Posted by: Y-not at March 20, 2013 09:30 AM (5H6zj) A lot of people are believing the Democrat Media message that Republicans need to change their stances on issues which that same Democrat Media complex spends enormous amounts of time demonizing Republicans about. Yes, the problem is our stance on issues which is the same stance we have had for the last 50 years, and not the fact that the Democrats who run the media have worked very hard to portray anyone that has this stance as a horrible person motivated by stupidity and ignorance. They are simply doing to the Republican Base what they did to Sarah Palin.

435 As David said: "Why doesn't someone go out and shut up that loud mouthed Philistine?"

436 FWIW, my impression is that Ace has become much more libertarian/social liberal since the election and DrewM has become more conservative.

Alllllllll aboooooaaaaarrrrrddddd!

All aboard the train to Charles Johnson!!!

437 #432  My priest  actually knew Benedict,  and took classes from him when he was at the North American Pontifical Academy.

As a consequence, my priest's homilies are full of history and explanations of why things are the way they are in the Church,  which I greatly appreciate.

His message to us was that we should appreciate the different skills and emphasis each man brought or will bring to the papacy.

I always thought Benedict's gift was in teaching.  I used to get a lot out of reading his lessons in the weekly audiences.

Pope Francis seems to me to be more of a doer, but that may just be the contrast given that Pope Benedict seemed so frail at the end.

438 Sean, got a lot of barracks reelitiginous scholars cluttering up the thread.  Pontificating upon what they know not.

Geez all the Moriarties harshing the mellow.

439 Yep. There's no IMDB listing for it but I remember watching it. It lasted one or two seasons -- I think it was a follow on to Sky King but didn't work. IIRC the pilot flew an H-13. Or maybe a Hiller Killer. Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 09:33 AM (tOkJB) I used to love watching that show. I also remember one with Lloyd Bridges, but I can't think of the name of it.

440 427. Vatican II and all... American this or that, since WWII particularly, isn't anything like it used to be. And that applies to Catholics as well as anyone else. Our best friend's uncle is a Jesuit priest. I wouldn't criticize him. And that's saying a lot considering my tendency. The traditions of the Jesuit training disciplines are to be respected. Point remains, the new Pope Francis IS an American Jesuit, South American Argentinian of Italian immigrants. I consider that all a magnificent combined heritage, and wish (and pray) him all the best in this horrid world.

441 I always thought Benedict's gift was in teaching. I used to get a lot out of reading his lessons in the weekly audiences. Posted by: Miss Marple at March 20, 2013 10:12 AM (GoIUi)

When I was doing my MA, I really came to appreciate Benedict's writing.

His books are right up there with de Lubac and Congar.  He is absolutely brilliant and most importantly with such a difficult subject....accessible.

442 Even I got really vulgar and got into some really nasty name calling. But it was at Mr. Moo, which makes it okay. Posted by: Ed Anger at March 20, 2013 09:37 AM (tOkJB) Some people cannot disagree without being disagreeable.

443 Message discipline. Pick a theme and stick to it. Every time a Republican gets in front of a microphone or a camera he should say, "Harry Reid needs to do his job." (Insert your suggested message.)

444 "impression is that Ace has become much more libertarian" And with that laugh, going now.

445 The traditions of the Jesuit training disciplines are to be respected. Point remains, the new Pope Francis IS an American Jesuit, South American Argentinian of Italian immigrants. I consider that all a magnificent combined heritage, and wish (and pray) him all the best in this horrid world.  Posted by: panzernashorn at March 20, 2013 10:14 AM (MhA4j)

Francis is not an "American" Jesuit in the manner of which one would commonly speak of an "American."  Therefore, he's exempt from my criticism of Jesuits.  He is a "Latin American" Jesuit.  In fact, he's a living embodiment of what a Jesuit is supposed to be regardless of nationality.

Jesuit training disciplines are to be respected?  Agreed.  Very much agree, in fact.  It's just a shame that American Jesuits do not respect their own rule anymore.  I realize this is a blanket statement and that there are many excellent Jesuits of the "old school."  In fact, I was sad to hear one of them, Fr. James Schall S.J., just retired from teaching at Georgetown.

But...go ahead and read America magazine for a year, and then come back and tell me these Jesuits are upholding their own tradition.  

They are not.

446 In my opinion, the GOP should do everything it can to bypass the dinosaur media. Take the message to people at the personal level. Screw the media.

But honestly, I care more about America than I do about the GOP. I will always promote what I believe to be in America's best interest first.

447

You're asking how do we keep the GOP from being a punchline?

We keep talking to a bunch of fools and buffoons as if they were meant to be taken seriously. THAT makes us a punchline.

We are dealing with an electorate that saw the US government effectively criminalize Catholicism when it dictated free birth control under penalty of law for those who did not comply. Not only did the electorate NOT view this as a civil rights violation they applauded. Then when conservatives did point out that it was a civil rights violation the Left screamed that Romney was going to illegalize birth control

AND THE FUCKING IDIOTS LAPPED IT UP!

Facebook was drowned in posts of people lamenting that if Romney was elected birth control would be a thing of the past. There was no mention of just paying your own $20/month, they were convinced birth control -- period -- would be taken away.

You want to know how to deal with fucking idiots?

First, you call them fucking idiots to their fucking idiot faces.

That's when they stop laughing at you and listen to the next thing to come out of your mouth.

Then, once you have their attention you explain to them why they are idiots. You tell them why they are not free and more importantly why they do not deserve to be free.

Tell them that as long as they insist on being dependent the person who buys them their food, housing, education, healthcare -- and birth control -- will ultimately rule their fate. It may be Obama, Pelosi and Reid in the interim but what will those 3 stooges do once the producers and taxpayers have decided they've more than contributed more than their fair share.

"Do you think Pelosi is going to write a check from her bank account?

"What will you fucking idiots do when the inevitable comes? What have your masters taught you?

"They have taught you to that hard work is the hallmark of greed so you ridicule industry. They have taught you families are suffocating slavery so you have growth and no basis for your society. They have taught you the military is an object of unthinking violence and bigotry so you are defensless and unarmed. They have taught you to embrace meaningless terms such as 'progess' so that you remain blinded to the lessons of history. They have taught you indulgence, not so that you might cherish the joys of life but that you might squander your meager hours with self-indulgence.

"And for no reason other than to buy your votes.

"You don't want to be free? Fine. Whatever you work towards you will have earned. You want to be ruled? You want to depend on another for your every morsel?

"You may hate us but we do not care. We have endured this entire time with your hate when all we wished was your independence. Now it is time for your betters to assume what they have earned. You're free to seek your independence at the time of your choosing though everything thus far tells me you're incapable.

"Do you hate me for my words? Good! It's the sting of the lash that makes the slave forget about food and shelter, sending him scrambling barefoot into the night after his freedom.

"You are too stupid to live by your own devises.

"You are too lazy to secure your own dinner.

"You are too cowardly to accept the burdens of freedom.

"If that's too harsh for you fucking idiots please feel free to prove me wrong."

Go ahead and say that -- and mean it -- and then see who's laughing.

448 148 I have to say that I really like Ben Carson. I read his book a few years ago, and he is a good man. Now everyone complain about what he said about guns... Your 2nd Amendment rights mean nothing to you, but those same rights apply to me and they do mean a great deal to me. If you can pick and choose which of your Constitutional Rights matter to you, good for you. But those same rights apply to all of us. Some of us prefer to fight for all of our rights.

449 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 20, 2013 09:48 AM (CJjw5)

Do I have to crawl through the intertubes and arm-bar you?

I said that I think he is incorrect. But I also think he does see homosexuality as being perceived by the religious as the worst sin, because of the media's portrayal of the religious, not because of reality.

It's an emotional response from a usually rational man.

450

The problem is the brand, he said, stating the obvious.

 

How to fix the brand? Coach GOP spokespeople to stop talking so much about geeky complicated shit like numbers (the budget, the deficits, spending, fiscal doom) and start talking about freedom. People like freedom, at least in theory. Freedom sells. Even the Free Shit Army likes the freedom to do whatever they want with their free shit.

 

Point out that the Democrats want to control every aspect of our lives, a point which has the benefit of being true. Use Bloomberg as a poster child. (Wait, you say, Bloomberg's not a Democrat. My answer? The hell he isn't.) Talk about the Bill of Rights, with emphasis on the 1st Amendment. Talk up our right to say, write, and think whatever we like.

 

Freedom, freedom, freedom. Make it a beat people can dance to.

 

Of course, the reason the brand is damaged in the first place is the complete lack of media savvy exhibited by Republican leadership every chance they get. The Romney campaign spent millions on those completely worthless high-priced consultants of theirs when I can make a better political ad on my 8-year-old PC with fucking MovieMaker and Photoshop, at 1/1000th of the cost.

451 Frankly, I don't understand the argument that Republicans have a policy problem when the people Republicans are losing to are Democrats. Seriously? Republican policies aren't perfect, but how does that explain losing to Democrats?

No, I don't understand that at all.

I agree with Andrew Klavan: http://is.gd/WbUxT1

452 449 Homosexuality isn't considered a grievous sin for nothing (I am a cradle Catholic and was taught by both Jesuits and Dominicans -- many of them are not as hippy dippy as people are led to believe, and they are not to be tangled with lightly). One thing that must be remembered: it isn't the person so much as the active promoting to the point of celebration of the sin that is considered the danger (after all, we are all sinners, but are nonetheless given assurances of God's love and forgiveness if we are open to it -- that's what I was taught anyway). Not every gay person is a goody two shoes, and gay lifestyle isn't always like as seen on Will and Grace -- some of them are right nasty rotters. Tell me...if the LGBT community is so on the up and up (and truly, I'm not saying that some individuals aren't, but things have to be taken as an entirety rather than pointing to specific individuals in matters such as this)...why will they not renounce, rebuke, go after NAMBLA? (this could go back to that "trust but verify" messaging thing-y I proposed too) How about polygamy? Will they go after it? How about some sort of in writing agreement that they will not force the Church to bend to their demands? Why will they not give some sort of in good faith signs that their intentions can be completely trusted? After all, it may turn out to be in the long run beneficial for that community (and the individuals within it) if they don't get everything they think they want now (if they get their freedoms, well then, others should get theirs -- and some groups' ideas of "freedom of oppression" is to hang people of a homosexual persuasion from cranes...would be a not so good thing for homosexuals if the door was opened to get a plurality of those in the country, now wouldn't it?). This is but one example. There are others -- on the right as well as the left, who could probably also stand for some better scrutiny as to just what exactly are their intentions and principles (and if those really benefit society and the individual people within it).

453 434 They are simply doing to the Republican Base what they did to Sarah Palin. - And it works on them for the same reason it worked on Palin. Her fellow Republicans, including Republican governors, did not stand up for her. Not at all. They willingly gave the leftist mass media an assisted kill - which will also make the leftist mass media more effective against them if they stray from liberalism, or just when they run against a Democrat, as John McCain found. It's easy to demonize the Republican base because nobody stands up for them, including Republican politicians.

454

OK - not to bring back a dead and buried subject before its time (after all, it's only been 1 day).... (SWIDT?)

Read through yesterday's discussion and while I do think Ace was being obtuse, didn't find it offensive. BUT.....

There was one issue that he pointed out that I don't think was ever properly addressed and that was the focus on male homosexuality vs. female homosexuality, but there is a broader context that relates the issue to the human condition, specifically the male condition as it relates to sexuality and that bears on society and sexual culture generally.

The problem is this: men, generally as compared to women, have a much higher libido during pubescense extending into early adulthood. Men also are less risk averse and can be disdainful of the consequences of their actions; again, this condition is aggravated due to hormonal condition, andthe relative youth/lack of wisdom of individuals in this cohort.

In a heterosexual man, this condition is tempered by societal mores AND by the (historically) less lebidinous, more concerned with CONSEQUENCES heterosexual female (after all, she can't walk away from pregnancy). If it makes sense to you, consider the male/female condition as paired sine/cosine waves.

In a homosexual relationship however, there is the potential for AMPLIFICATION (sine-sine paired wave, or cosine-cosine paired wave) of what might be considered less-desireable traits in either homosexual pairing; men who engage in random, unemotional, unattached sexual encounters vs. the tradional lesbian second date, complete with U-Haul. Additionally, by engaging in a homosexual lifestyle the individual has already thrown off traditional societal mores, so there is no well-known guidebook for youthful individuals to proceed. This unbounded condition has the potential to result in extremes, some of which would be considered to be directly harmful to society; this might include the spread of STDs, but could also include public displays of nudity and outright sexuality that occur in San Francisco (and occasionally in P-Town).

The thing is, you can also see this unbounded behavior occuring in heterosexual males when societal mores are disregarded; see Steubenville Rape. Similarly, you also have the unfettered fapping brigade.

One of the points of Christianity at least as I've learned to understand it is that one of the reasons that these acts are sinful (aside from the obvious, rape) is that the actor can be subsumed by the act and become subservient to his own lusts and desires, and in that sense, we are not free to be the best people that we can be. If you're spending an inordinate amount of time dialed in on sex then you're not spending time being Christianly to your neighbors; you aren't making the world a better place. You're simply satisfying a desire with an act that becomes empty because it has no meaning or purpose.

Now, having said all of this, I am minorly conflicted on one point and that is the issue of homosexual marriage. Where two men become married and maintain a monogomous relationship there seems to be societal benefits of stability, health (less spread of STDs), and the potential for the sexual act to have a similar effect in heterosexual sex of creating and nurturing a loving bond. Not trying to be offensive or obtuse, but speaking in a bit of ignorance here so feel free to chime in - I simply don't know if the sexual act between men can have precisely the same physio-chemical responses that result in a strengthening of a loving relationship the way they do in hetero sex. Again, this question has more to do with how women are different and what they bring to the table. To the extent that there exists a gradation of sexuality, perhaps some men are more closely wired to the feminine responses and this result could be effected.

Next, why would I even be open to this line of questioning or doubt on this issue based on what is fairly explicitly in the Bible? Ultimately it is not for me to judge. Also, with Christ the rules changed. A number of the laws and rules from Lev. et al., while commanded, seem to have been primarily for the purpose of protecting the society from problems with infection, dysentery, etc. (the food laws). Once hygiene and food preparation methods improved, these laws could reasonably be dismissed. Would homosexual marriage effectively deal with the societal ills that are associated with homosexuality? Would it lead to relationships where the individuals were able to devote time to their friends, relatives and neighbors? In other words, on the spectrum of being the best person they can be, does a marriage advance that goal? Perhaps. (I've also seen conflicting evidence, including a propensity for homosexual marriages to be 'open' thus negating some ofthe societal benefits.)

What I don't like is that no one wants to have an actual *discussion* on these issues. You're either a religious bigot or a sexual bigot.

And to answer your question Ace, the reason that the focus is on male homosexuality is that it is within that sphere that most of the negative connotations/societal ills are evidenced.

Now if you don't mind, it's time for my daily dose of 'Too many dicks on the dancefloor'. Best Regards, NED

455 I'm thinking of the NRA here. Every time some jackhole in Congress tries to pass a bill to confiscate firearms Wayne LaPierre gets on the talk shows comes out swinging takes a hard line and BAM donations skyrocket and memberships soar in the NRA. Perhaps the RNC should try that rather than mealy mouth compromises. Conservatives like strength. They follow strong leaders.

456 Next, why would I even be open to this line of questioning or doubt on this issue based on what is fairly explicitly in the Bible? Ultimately it is not for me to judge. Also, with Christ the rules changed. A number of the laws and rules from Lev. et al., while commanded, seem to have been primarily for the purpose of protecting the society from problems with infection, dysentery, etc. (the food laws). Once hygiene and food preparation methods improved, these laws could reasonably be dismissed. Would homosexual marriage effectively deal with the societal ills that are associated with homosexuality? Would it lead to relationships where the individuals were able to devote time to their friends, relatives and neighbors? In other words, on the spectrum of being the best person they can be, does a marriage advance that goal? Perhaps. (I've also seen conflicting evidence, including a propensity for homosexual marriages to be 'open' thus negating some ofthe societal benefits.)

Those dietary laws aren't dismissed.   Those who wish to be in God's favor by being a perfect Jew are just as bound by them as the Israelites during Moses' time.   (And are condemned by them due to their inability to follow them totally)  

The Christian does not approach God through obedience to Jewish law, but by grace through Christ.   

Your premise is flawed, God's rules are not based on their utility to us.  

457 The Christian does not approach God through obedience to Jewish law, but by grace through Christ.

Your premise is flawed, God's rules are not based on their utility to us.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 20, 2013 03:35 PM (oY6Yp)

 

Thanks for reading. I do appreciate that.

 

I am not convinced that my premise is flawed. We certainly require Grace, but God's laws do promote good and healthy living; there are real and tangible benefits, and I believe that our world is constructed such that His law reaps those benefits. Throughout the Bible there are references to being blessed if you follow the law. I also believe that God deals with us where we are in our capacity to realize or comprehend His full revelation. For this reason, it was necessary for Him to gather His people into a nation; and at the appropriate time, it was then time for fuller revelation when the people were prepared to accept it. Was the revelation complete with Christ? Obviously Christ was necessary regardless of His additional revelations to us; but are there not finer points of understanding that we can continue to learn? Since revelation was gradual and incomplete in the past, I don't see why the revelation of His will could not continue?

458 That guy you thought was inevitable wasn't but something else was. Too bad it was the party's suicidal slide to the left and divorce from too large a chunk of their own base to survive.

459 " Put another way: why the hell would anyone want to join our party when we're so obviously miserable? " Better question: Why would anybody want to vote for your party that surrenders to their opponents, bad mouths and ignore their constituents, and sneeringly pisses on their own grass roots?

460 Sorry, you are wrong.  It is a policy problem when the gop has no principles and no spine.  I'm done with them.  I'm not the only one.  Cruz better start his own party or he will go nowhere.  The gop will make damn fucking sure of it.  Because commiecrats=republicoms.