June 13, 2013

Top Headline Comments 6-12-13
— Gabriel Malor

Happy Thursday.

So. ...So. Now that we've got that out of the way, a question keeps popping up in whenever Edward Snowden's claims get questioned. It is important, easy to answer, and gets right to the heart of the problem with Snowden's claims: "If you don't believe Snowden's claims, how do you explain the U.S. government's determination to prosecute?"

Easy. He provided classified information to journalists. At a minimum, we know he provided the PRISM slides -- which, if you will recall, were marked Top Secret -- and the secret Verizon warrant to Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald also said Snowden gave him "thousands" of other documents. So there's no doubt Snowden broke the law (as well as his oath). Of course he should be prosecuted.

My skepticism extends to the claims he makes that go beyond the content of the PRISM slides. His claims are utterly uncorroborated and, indeed, have been resoundingly denied by everyone in a position to know. I have no reason to believe the word of Snowden, a man I had never heard of before last week. I have no reason to believe the word of Clapper, a man with his own credibility problems. Quite simply, I'm not willing to devote my attention to half-formed, possibly half-baked accusations. There'll be an investigation. Let it do its thing.

Besides, the secret phone warrants is a much juicier scandal. First, the existence of the program has actually been confirmed and we definitively know it targeted Americans. Second, and here's the horrifying part, it might even be legal. Which brings me back to the point I made when these scandals broke: the fix isn't going to merely be whacking NSA on the nose and telling it to follow the law. The law appears to be the problem. If you want to fix this, the ultimate goal has to be putting NSA and the FISA court on shorter leashes, which will take congressional action.

In the meantime, I believe there are just a few other things on our plate. The EPA scandals are my area of emphasis because I dislike that particular agency's actions over the years more than most and, as with the IRS, we have evidence that the EPA's actions were taken to intentionally disfavor conservative groups and to benefit liberal groups. That type of corruption is far more likely to result in a correction than a simple nonpartisan, bureaucratic "oops." Why do you think the Democrats spent so much time lying about the IRS scandal just being the fault of some rogue agents in Cincinnati?

In other news, SCOTUS will release opinions at 10 AM in one or more cases argued this term. Possible topics include: affirmative action in college admissions, the Voting Rights Act, Prop 8, DOMA, and gene patents.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:30 AM | Comments (333)
Post contains 470 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Morning Morons.  Probably not first....

Posted by: zeera at June 13, 2013 02:31 AM (3dXwx)

2 Psst, pass the donuts and we'll let you in on an early scoop on the opinions.

Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 02:32 AM (KTytI)

3 Damn Gabe is early and I slept late.


I got nothing yet

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 02:35 AM (lZvxr)

4 DAY 219 1,236 to go (1,321 to Inauguration Day 2017) Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Mau-Maus, MFM's, Moochelle, McCain's, MIRV's, mutants, malcontents, malthusians, maniacs, malignant medical mandates, miscreants, maladjusted masochistic multiculturalists, momzers, mamalukes, mooks, mariuoli, meeskeits, maricons, marauders, malodorous militants, menstruating mons veneri and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:38 AM (+98Gb)

5 It's a good day to do Quaternions.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 02:39 AM (KTytI)

6 Long term, Democrats are going to win their fights on any number of things crucial to them...mainly of the social variety, which I think is the key for most. The question is, do they wish to win with honor, or not? Benghazi and the IRS do not fit into that category if they just ignore it. The tendency of Progs to become a thought-stifling mob has got to be addressed. I like government, but I do not like autocratic or authoritarian ones. This is what Democrats are enabling, simply because they hate the GOP more. It simply has to stop, as does the idea that color trumps ethics. It doesn't. And yet right now in America, it does. It appears we decided to just go from one extreme pre-1963 to the other. Right now, Democrats are simply not that which new orders of integrity are made, because they sacrifice good people to expediency and cant. They simply must do better.

Posted by: T. at June 13, 2013 02:40 AM (+GDxM)

7

I'm dreading SCOTUS decisions. Ugh.

 

In other news, I got RT'd by Ann Coulter last night for my tweet about  her epic   Hannity appearance. I was pretty  excited, lol! So much so, I'm bragging to you guys about it

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at June 13, 2013 02:40 AM (KL49F)

8 In other news, SCOTUS will release opinions at 10 AM in one or more cases argued this term. Possible topics include: affirmative action in college admissions, the Voting Rights Act, Prop 8, DOMA, and gene patents.


Prediction:


The blatantly unconstitutional VRA will be affirmed once again with a 5-4 decision.


AA will get a new lease on life after being shot down before.  This despite the fact that is flagrantly violates the CRA of 1964.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 02:40 AM (lZvxr)

9 I don't give a shit (for the moment) about Snowden. I give a shit about the instrumentalities of government being used to spy on and persecute We the People. There is plenty of time to stand Snowden up in front of a firing squad. But we must focus the debate on the tyranny NOW.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:40 AM (+98Gb)

10 New name for the GOP: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:41 AM (+98Gb)

11 So Clapper didn't commit perjury? I'm so sick of his disgusting idolaters.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 13, 2013 02:41 AM (uhAkr)

12 On this day in 1966 the Supremes took a shit and Miranda squirted out.


So don't look for anything good from the robed turds today.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 02:43 AM (lZvxr)

13

So there's no doubt Snowden broke the law (as well as his oath). Of course he should be prosecuted.

HAHAHA. God that made me laugh so hard. I thought that breaking the law and oaths didn't matter anymore these days. We need a brand new jail just to house all the politicians who have broken the law, not to mention their oaths.

Posted by: spypeach at June 13, 2013 02:44 AM (0n1+D)

14 >> So Clapper didn't commit perjury? Huh? Who said that?

Posted by: Andy at June 13, 2013 02:45 AM (li+aS)

15 #6

It has to do with the 'wave of the world' - which is a similar phenomenon that will now manifest itself in various places like Hollywood, the Internet, and so forth. They, being a worldly movement, can only rise so high before their own weight brings them down. The corruption that is now utterly rampant reveals that because they were losing momentum, they got desperate and tried to 'cheat' a little more than usual.

According to the shape of a sine wave, the acceleration will begin to taper as you reach the top; it's disconcerting if you suspect cycles but want to believe in linear progress.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 02:46 AM (KTytI)

16 The Transfomers movie franchise curse continues.  Seems they pretty much torched a 100 yr old house in Texas this time.
http://tinyurl.com/kpq3dlk

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 02:46 AM (brJMf)

17 If Bill Maher is happy with his present orifice count, he better stay out of the same room as Sarah Palin.

Posted by: AE at June 13, 2013 02:47 AM (HYceo)

18 So far every asshole in this administration who has testified to congress has lied to them.  Not all committed perjury though because some (Hillary) were not sworn in.


But that doesn't matter, lying to congress now is a felony.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 02:47 AM (lZvxr)

19

I got nothing, either.  I am having an increasingly difficult time keeping my - frankly - murderous rage at this gangster administration, its media enablers and its willing GOP collaborators in check.  It's best for my mental health and for Ace's peace of mind that I stop commenting beyond just a morning story and absent myself from the HQ for a while to concentrate on my writing.  So I'm going to shut down until I can get better control of myself.

 

I'll just leave you with two quick Shirley Temple stories:

 

TempleÂ’s career stumbled – and finally crashed – in the 1940s, as she grew up, because her fans (like Mary PickfordÂ’s nearly three decades previously) didnÂ’t want to face the fact that she wasnÂ’t a little girl anymore.  When watching a sneak preview of 1947s That Hagen Girl, as soon as co-star Ronald Reagan asked the 19 year-old Shirley, “I love you, will you marry me?” the audience broke out in groans and cries of “Oh, no!”  The producers ended up cutting the line before releasing the film.

 

 

Another anecdote:  in the late 1960s when Temple ran for office in California, one of her campaign posters was a large picture of her as a child star, with the words If you donÂ’t vote for me, IÂ’ll hold my breath!”

 

 

Hope you all have a wonderful day.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 13, 2013 02:49 AM (zF6Iw)

20 6 Posted by: T. at June 13, 2013 06:40 AM (+GDxM) Long term they will win because they subverted academia, the media and the culture for the past 50-100 years, effectively brainwashing several generations of Americans into believing this country as founded, its values, ideals and magnificence are all a lie. The Democrats were, are and always will be traitors, hell bent on the destruction of the republic and the enslavement of its people. No more, no less.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:51 AM (+98Gb)

21 Hang in there MPPP.  So will there be a dense flatfoot as comedic relief in the new version?  Wise cracking news hounds looking for a date and a scoop, not in that order?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 02:52 AM (brJMf)

22 Morning all. Everyday when I get up, I find the news filled with more and more liberal outrages. I wish they'd all just disappear.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 02:53 AM (9Bj8R)

23 *pauses as odd thought pops to mind*

Gaylord Focker's administration as My Lying Ponies : Power Corrupts.

Joe Biden is Pinkie Pie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 02:53 AM (brJMf)

24 Somebody coined a great phrase the other day; cyanide waffles, or something like that? Was it you, Anna P. or was it Mama Winger?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:55 AM (+98Gb)

25 Take a look at the wonderful jurors in the Travon case.  After all, it is FL


http://tinyurl.com/q9gr8bv

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 02:55 AM (lZvxr)

26 Good morning, government minders! Make yourselves comfortable and listen in. You might even enjoy it and perhaps you'll even want to lurk and laugh!

Posted by: Juan de Hattatime at June 13, 2013 02:56 AM (CqZmo)

27 Nothing about cyanide waffles.  Though I did make a joke about Kafka waffles being made of sawdust and arsenic.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 02:57 AM (brJMf)

28 hello morons

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 13, 2013 02:58 AM (jJA/4)

29 Snowden, if nothing, reveals that the Democrat/Progressive plan failed and will ultimately fail.

This is because, just when they need the apparatus of power and secrecy the most, their own children will turn on them, just like they taught them to do.

Like many of its forms of art, it auto-destructs. You can't undermine culture, civilization and liberty to such an extent and not get some good old blowback.

This guy, I call him the inevitable American. We're not really a people, we're a nation of laws. The problem then is, if we ignore those laws in spirit and in letter, we abandon the only basis of our legitimacy as an entity.

Our generation seems to take the whole 'liberty/coercion', 'bully/victim' idea very seriously, as it was taught to by the culture.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 02:58 AM (KTytI)

30 27 Nothing about cyanide waffles. Though I did make a joke about Kafka waffles being made of sawdust and arsenic. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 06:57 AM (brJMf) YES!!! "Kafka waffles." Been driving me nuts trying to remember that.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 02:58 AM (+98Gb)

31 Temple’s career stumbled – and finally crashed – in the 1940s, as she grew up, because her fans (like Mary Pickford’s nearly three decades previously) didn’t want to face the fact that she wasn’t a little girl anymore. But she was so HOT....!

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 02:59 AM (MMC8r)

32 Morning!

Legal, Gabe? No.  Section 215 of the Patriot Act only allows for gathering of records for specific persons.  Secondly, no records can be sought of people pursuing 1st Amendment activities - I believe my personal phone calls fall into that category.

Just because they have judges in their pocket who will "approve" this shit does NOT make it legal.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:00 AM (UTq/I)

33 #23

Don't insult Pinkie Pie like that.

Does that make Obama into Spike? Or would that be Jay Carney?

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:00 AM (KTytI)

34 Blind China Tong gets the boot from liberal university because they like commies.


http://tinyurl.com/o928mdz

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 03:00 AM (lZvxr)

35 RiverC if you got a better idea of a line-up.  Have at it. 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:01 AM (brJMf)

36 Take a look at the wonderful jurors in the Travon case. After all, it is FL http://tinyurl.com/q9gr8bv Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 06:55 AM (lZvxr) You don't know the half of it: Leftist Member Of Pro-Trayvon Martin Group Tries To Sneak On To Zimmerman Jury… Shockingly, he’s an “unemployed painter and musician” (along with being a member of a “progressive” group “dedicated to seeking justice for Trayvon Martin”). Via NY Daily News: This is gonna be a mess

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 03:01 AM (9Bj8R)

37 And JJ Sefton why was Kafka waffles so haunting you??

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:01 AM (brJMf)

38 34 Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2013 07:00 AM (lZvxr) Vic, the guy lives right across the street from me. Anyway, this is not surprising considering they fawn all over Rashid Khalidi and Kathy Boudin. Sad, tragic, but not surprising.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:02 AM (+98Gb)

39 Along those lines...Democrats need to understand that folks are willing to lend a helping hand, but they are limits to how much they are willing to sacrifice. This has been an issue the time of Christ. Americans simply are not going to accept being only lower middle class until all black and brown are raised up. And yet, that basically becoming the nub of many Progressive policies, as we are going to see with ObamaCare. If everybody can't have it all, nobody apparently can. I'm sorry, that just needs to be rejected. It is nobody's job to pick someone up and carry them on their back all the way to the finish line. There have to be limits, and the idea that people who do not enlist in the Great Progressive Crusade to End It All In This Generation are evil has got to end. Moderation in all things. Let the middle class have theirs, and for that matters, let the "rich"** have theirs. Lending a hand now and then does not mean coming over everyday as your batman. All that matters is if the improvement slope is positive. Once again, color does not trump ethics in America. It is the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Class Obligation to those below. Let each man concentrate on his own as his *primary* obligation--that way, by taking care of himself and his, he can occasionally help out others. But only if they are taking care of themselves too as best able. **if you no longer worked a day in your life and could maintain lifestyle, you are rich. If you can't, you are prosperous. Progressives prey on the prosperous and say they are making the "rich" pay their share.

Posted by: T. at June 13, 2013 03:02 AM (+GDxM)

40 I know I've posted it before, but just seems right. Miranda Lambert - Time to get a gun (or two http://youtu.be/HN56BFDsPK0 via @youtube

Posted by: spypeach at June 13, 2013 03:02 AM (0n1+D)

41 Take a look at the wonderful jurors in the Travon case.

"None of the jury candidates who were questioned said it would be a hardship to serve on the panel."

They're already picking out ghostwriters.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ drinking beer at June 13, 2013 03:03 AM (hO8IJ)

42 I am NOT going to help the Obama Administration and the Establishment in the trashing of Snowden. They are afraid he might have something embarrassing on them.

Posted by: perdogg at June 13, 2013 03:04 AM (ziD3M)

43 I would tend to believe that Obama is Owlalicious, with Valerie Jarret as Twilight Sparkle. That leaves Moochelle as Rarity. Biden definitely could be Pinkie Pie.

This works fine because all Owlalicious says is, 'who?'


Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:04 AM (KTytI)

44 I still can't figure out who would be Jacuzzi Splot, I mean, Fluttershy.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:06 AM (KTytI)

45 RiverC, If you're a "brony," just start running now.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 03:06 AM (JDIKC)

46 37 And JJ Sefton why was Kafka waffles so haunting you?? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 07:01 AM (brJMf) I just loved the concept and envisioned it joining the pantheon of AOSHQ terminology, like pudding, ewoks, etc.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:07 AM (+98Gb)

47 As the anti Fluttershy...  Susan Rice?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:08 AM (brJMf)

48 Levin was going crazy about Paul Ryan last night.  Just what the fuck has happened to him along with nearly every other fucking Repuke that conned us into thinking they were really really conservative.  I ordinarily can't stand that blowhard and Romney shill Hewitt, but after the GOP took control of the House in 2010 he grilled Ryan on how much of the promised spending cuts they were really gonna do.  All Ryan would say was "trust us" and meanwhile they haven't done a fucking thing to adhere to their campaign promises.  And now they're committed to immigration reform?  We've all been sold out.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 03:10 AM (2wg/Q)

49 JJ Sefton, why thank you.  Would you like some Kafka waffles along with a super-sized hate shake?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:11 AM (brJMf)

50

I've been hearing a bunch of talking heads in the media and the administration justifying all the snooping because it has stopped/prevented/disrupted dozens of terrorist attacks. Of course they won't give some examples. That would let the terrorists know our capabilites.

 

Since I don't believe a word from this administration I'm doubtful dozens of attacks have been prevented.

 

Earlier this week some fool was on Fox saying there has not been a successful terrorist attack in this country since 9/11. I guess she never heard of Boston or Hasan, or any of the other attacks by muzzies acting alone.

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 03:12 AM (PBm/l)

51 48 Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 07:10 AM (2wg/Q) Listening to the rewind now. He all but burned Ryan to the ground, scattered the bones and salted the earth where he stood. As he should have.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:12 AM (+98Gb)

52 Clapper was set up by Wyden.  He had already provided the answer in closed session, and he couldn't repeat it in open testimony without violating at least two laws.  If he declined to answer, that tips the answer and leaves speculation to be even wilder than it has.

But anyone who accepts at face value the work product of either Greenwald or Wyden is at best a fool.  Both have proved themselves dishonest and disreputable.

Posted by: Adjoran at June 13, 2013 03:12 AM (473jB)

53 @EoJ

You like things I don't like, I like things you don't like. I ain't gonna make no deal of it.

Also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGI6mhfJyA


Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:15 AM (KTytI)

54 Completely off topic: If anyone out there is a usenetserver dot com customer, I'd love to throw you a referrer bonus. Mailto in my signature below.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at June 13, 2013 03:15 AM (a5ljo)

55 50 Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 07:12 AM (PBm/l) The only thing the NSA has prevented is... nothing. It will prevent the citizenry from speaking out against the regime.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:16 AM (+98Gb)

56 Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 07:10 AM (2wg/Q) I did my best to talk Ryan up once he was the VP candidate, but he's everything I hate most in politicians. He's had less private sector experience than fucking Obama. Everything he's done in his life has been geared towards a life as a politician. Anyone who dreams of being President all his life is someone I don't want anywhere near elected office. This motherfucker isn't a public servant. He's a Self Servant.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 03:17 AM (JDIKC)

57 I hope that they can find a way to punish anyone in receipt of materials that were clearly not intended for their eyes. It is wrong to receive stolen sheep, or bubble gum, and it should be flat wrong to receive Top Secret (or even Confidential) information. I hope the stuff was all marked with the good ol' Title 17 warnings. Sue the suckers for copyright infringement, at a minimum, since there is obviously no "fair use" for Secret materials.

Posted by: and irresolute at June 13, 2013 03:17 AM (DBH1h)

58 52 Clapper was set up by Wyden. He had already provided the answer in closed session, and he couldn't repeat it in open testimony without violating at least two laws. If he declined to answer, that tips the answer and leaves speculation to be even wilder than it has. So he broke the law and lied under oath to prevent 'speculation.' Got it. Funny how some people can do that and others can't.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 13, 2013 03:17 AM (uhAkr)

59 Clapper was set up by Wyden. He had already provided the answer in closed session Posted by: Adjoran at June 13, 2013 07:12 AM (473jB) And you know that how?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 03:18 AM (9Bj8R)

60 RiverC or this video
http://tinyurl.com/kpq3dlk

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:19 AM (brJMf)

61
So he broke the law and lied under oath to prevent 'speculation.' Got it.

Funny how some people can do that and others can't.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 13, 2013 07:17 AM (uhAkr)


It for our own good!!

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 03:19 AM (AWmfW)

62 What Wyden did was classic politics. Clapper had an option to answer truthfully but possibly raise suspicion. He chose to lie. It's not really a Sophie's choice at all; it was a choice that only a child should fail; thinking he can lie about taking cookies from the cookie jar and get away with it.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:20 AM (KTytI)

63 Shirley Temple had some great roles as a young adult: Bachelor And The Bobby Soxer, Honeymoon, and of course Fort Apache. Plus, she was very pretty.

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at June 13, 2013 03:22 AM (IlZPo)

64 I just heard that the chocolate ration has been increased to 15 grams. Fuck it--I'm going to Disneyworld!

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 03:23 AM (JQuNB)

65 #60

wrong tinyurl?

Viraus2 (the guy who did the video work) also did one using Beastie Boys, which ain't half bad either. He's got a good talent for matching the animation to the vocals.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:24 AM (KTytI)

66 Go Spurs Go!!!! (Had to get that out) Morning all. Will be interested to see if Parker plays tonight, he has a hamstring pull.

Posted by: SAT Rose at June 13, 2013 03:24 AM (ZOPA0)

67 Zimmerman is a dead man.  He will never get a fair trial.  This is all just a show for the television crowd, ie, the idiots who can be counted on to vote because of race.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 13, 2013 03:25 AM (xjpRj)

68 Morning Morons. Morning NSA analysts. Who made coffee?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 13, 2013 03:25 AM (/znCo)

69 I've had it with republicans fine with shreadding the 4th admendment. The founding fathers would had a quisling like gab shot for suggestioning it's fine to spy on smericans. If the republicans don't end this Nazi domestic spying program or stop amimasty then there won't be a GOP in 2016.

Posted by: jimmy at June 13, 2013 03:25 AM (7iiiQ)

70 Basically, as I free verse--I am a classic liberal Democrat. I thus vote Republican. For the moment. I think what the modern Democrats need to understand is that, amongst their many demands, is that people cheerfully accept a hit to their quality of life in the cause of "social justice". This would be problematic most of the time--Christianity has never bern able to make it a universal act, even with the promise of eternal life--but I think that with the new addition to the American family of large numbers of folks who invited themselves over, we have reached a ethical and moral limit on the sacrifices people who are doing okay can be expected to make. There has just got to be some level of virtue in those who make requests for aid upon others. As we are about to see with health care, Progressives would willingly destroy it all lest none be without it, and I say moderation in all things. For while Rome was not built in a day, it was burnt in one.

Posted by: T. at June 13, 2013 03:25 AM (+GDxM)

71 The words "warrant", "4th Amendment", and "NSA" should not appear in the same sentence together. NSA is not a law enforcement agency. It is an agency created to monitor and collect the various voice and non-voice signals emitted by foreign nations. The USA is not a foreign nation. If said monitoring and collection is needed here in the USA, the FBI (a law enforcement agency) was given that tasking. The FISA court has no jurisdiction over US citizens who are not in communications with known or suspected terrorists, so any blanket collection order is invalid. No matter how many Congresscritters or Constitution 'experts' nod their heads sagely and say it keeps us safe.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at June 13, 2013 03:26 AM (ial2b)

72 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 07:17 AM (JDIKC)



I was conned also because he said all the right things that appealed to me.  Even now I have to catch myself to make sure I'm not being swayed by my image of what I thought he was rather than what his actions prove him to be.  I'm not sure what these Repukes' game plan is where they think they can lie to the base and there not be any negative consequences.  Maybe strategic geniuses like that turd Rove think they can shit all over us and "where are they gonna go" but that's just as dumb as every other fucking thing he's done that make him a major loser on election day.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 03:26 AM (2wg/Q)

73 Greetings from sunny Norway! Being a neighbor to the Soviet Union growing up I, and I guess pretty much the rest of the population, always assumed our electronic coms where being monitored. Either by the Soviets, you (the SigInt-ships permanently patrolling outside our coast) or our own intelligence agencies. Don't know what the US and A or the Russkies was up to, but the norwegian Lund Commission (set up in the 1990s) did indeed establish that our own police secret service had monitored and wiretapped local commies and whoever they associated with. Anyone with a 'file' was given a generous compensation for the breach of privacy and the agencies promised to never do that again. But guess what? That was all that was to it. The 60 years with monitoring, blanco canvassing, wiretaps, the surveillance? It didn't lead to a single instance of prosecution or even a raid! No one was harmed either mentally or bodily. So Americans, just relax. It'll all work out OK.

Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 03:26 AM (24Q8U)

74 Damn, got a serious line of thunderstorms streaking across Pennsylvania right now. We've already had a month and a half's worth of rain the past week so flood warnings are everywhere. Lightning strikes all over the WU map. Baton down the hatches eastern PA peeps.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 03:27 AM (U2UQk)

75 73 So Americans, just relax. It'll all work out OK. Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 07:26 AM (24Q8U) Norway. The country of Vidkun Quisling and the daily Joo-hatred from the Aftenposten. Yes, go back to sleep and call me of your burqa is too tight.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:30 AM (+98Gb)

76 So Americans, just relax. It'll all work out OK. Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 07:26 AM (24Q8U) -------------- We found a Scandi! May we keep him?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 03:30 AM (JDIKC)

77 Good morning!  As I posted at the end of the ONT, the State Department is interviewing in Indianapolis today because there is a shortage of foreign service officers.

We could speculate all day about why there is a shortage of people willing to take good-paying government jobs like that.

Posted by: Miss Marple at June 13, 2013 03:31 AM (GoIUi)

78 I want my Soma, dammit.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 03:31 AM (JQuNB)

79 Name withheld - we had that come through yesterday evening.  It did not stop thundering for a solid hour straight.  Luckily the worst of it passed south a little so all we got was the noise.  The dog was not happy!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:31 AM (UTq/I)

80 I sure hope things don't go bad after the Zimmerman trial.

Posted by: Reginald Denny at June 13, 2013 03:32 AM (WVMUQ)

81 #74

I saw that one awhile ago. Busted out when I realized how perfect the whole 'twilight campaign' line is.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 03:32 AM (KTytI)

82 JJ and EoJ it seems this one is like a socialist-progressive programmed Furby.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:34 AM (brJMf)

83 RiverC the Pinky and Brain one is a guilty little I really like it

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:35 AM (brJMf)

84 83 JJ and EoJ it seems this one is like a socialist-progressive programmed Furby. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 07:34 AM (brJMf) Meh. Just a lute-fisk suckin', valbiff eating fool and coward.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:36 AM (+98Gb)

85 I sure hope things don't go bad after the Zimmerman trial. Posted by: Reginald Denny at June 13, 2013 07:32 AM (WVMUQ) meh, thanks to the training program provided by the Korean Grocers Association we are prepared for such things.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 03:38 AM (XIxXP)

86 I always point to Norway or Denmark when talking to libtards about all the "freebies" they want government to provide.  Yes, there are lots of benefits.  But even the lowest wage worker pays up to 50% or more of their salaries for all the "freebies".

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:38 AM (UTq/I)

87 Michelle bachman was on Levin and said that comprehensive immigration reform is being fast tracked and that no one is feeling any heat over this, meaning the people are not burning up the phone lines like they were in 2007 when they tried to shove this turd down our throats. She called out boener, Ryan and rubio. Boener has even said his number one priority is this immigration POS, not fighting obamacare, not reigning in spending, not fighting the debt ceiling, not getting to the bottom or using the various scandals swirling around this administration to advance the GOP - immigration reform! We've been sold out plain and simple. The only way to stop this is to put a million people on the steps of the capitol, put a few thousand right outside the homes our supposed GOP leaders. It's the only way because the GOP has apparently adopted the jonsetown strategy for advancing conservatism.

Posted by: kreplach at June 13, 2013 03:38 AM (eiJIn)

88 Hey, where's Vic?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:38 AM (UTq/I)

89 Oh.. I just saw Vic's got nuthin today.. yeah, Gabe was early.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:39 AM (UTq/I)

90 yeah, Gabe was early. He wanted to gloat.

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 03:40 AM (MMC8r)

91 87 I always point to Norway or Denmark when talking to libtards about all the "freebies" they want government to provide. Yes, there are lots of benefits. But even the lowest wage worker pays up to 50% or more of their salaries for all the "freebies". Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 07:38 AM (UTq/I) Norway has a population of about 8 million yet is as big as most of the west coast of the US. Plus they are swimming in Brent North Sea crude. Denmark has cheese.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:40 AM (+98Gb)

92 Almost forgot, Denmark has the best vintage porn. I blame bush.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:41 AM (+98Gb)

93 More NSA talking points from Washington.

Posted by: Dale Gribble at June 13, 2013 03:42 AM (xm1Dn)

94 Early was late.

Posted by: Elisha Hunt Rhodes at June 13, 2013 03:42 AM (mw0FO)

95
Sesame Street to teach kids how to cope when Mommy or Daddy goes to prison

The long-running PBS childrenÂ’s education show launched the "Little Children, Big Challenges: Incarceration" educational program earlier this week. Organizers say the campaign is aimed at helping kids aged three to eight...

DailyMail




"One, two, three -- three consecutive life terms for premeditated murder!"

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 13, 2013 03:42 AM (kdS6q)

96 88 Posted by: kreplach at June 13, 2013 07:38 AM (eiJIn) National fucking strike and sit in on Capitol Hill. You won't need the NSA to figure it out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:43 AM (+98Gb)

97 The only way to stop this is to put a million people on the steps of the capitol, put a few thousand right outside the homes our supposed GOP leaders.

It's the only way because the GOP has apparently adopted the jonsetown strategy for advancing conservatism.
Posted by: kreplach
.................
The Dems have the optics on this in their favor.  A million people protesting it are simply labeled "racists".

That's why I agree with many who say the GOP is done.. finis...  They are going to lose their base over this in attempting to bring in more Latinos - which they will never get anyway.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:43 AM (UTq/I)

98 Ok.. off to work.. laters!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 03:44 AM (UTq/I)

99
Sesame Street to teach kids how to cope when Mommy or Daddy goes to prison



Well there are only so many ways to do the 26 letter alphabet and count to 12.

Gotta do something to justify their phony baloney jobs.

Posted by: Reginald Denny at June 13, 2013 03:45 AM (WVMUQ)

100 I blame bush. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 07:41 AM (+98Gb) ISWYDT

Posted by: joncelli at June 13, 2013 03:45 AM (vh67+)

101 off poor broken sock

Posted by: typo dynamofo at June 13, 2013 03:45 AM (WVMUQ)

102 Nonviolent noncooperation is looking better all the time.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 03:45 AM (JQuNB)

103 101 ISWYDT Posted by: joncelli at June 13, 2013 07:45 AM (vh67+) Bialyshtock und Blooom?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:46 AM (+98Gb)

104

Theo,

 

Maybe in Norway it wasn't a big deal and everything worked out fine, but here in the Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave it hasn't.

 

There are plenty examples of those with the "wrong" beliefs getting Soviet style treatment.

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (PBm/l)

105 "Springtime for some bad bush!"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (brJMf)

106 94 More NSA talking points from Washington.

Posted by: Dale Gribble at June 13, 2013 07:42 AM (xm1Dn)


It's for the children!

Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (AWmfW)

107 What would happen if millions of Americans made a firm decision to become ungovernable?

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (JQuNB)

108 Well there are only so many ways to do the 26 letter alphabet and count to 12. Gotta do something to justify their phony baloney jobs. I always piss off liberals when I ask why Sesame Street needs to make new epsiodes. Or why a show that's supposed to be for pre-readers needs to be close-captioned.

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (MMC8r)

109 Chinese and Spanish : the wave of the future

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 13, 2013 03:47 AM (/znCo)

110 It's for the children! Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 07:47 AM (AWmfW) One! One cell phone records search! Ahahahahaha!

Posted by: NSA and PBS, together at last at June 13, 2013 03:48 AM (vh67+)

111 110 Chinese and Spanish : the wave of the future Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 13, 2013 07:47 AM (/znCo) Fuck. Just wasted good money on Rosetta Stone Austrian...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:49 AM (+98Gb)

112 That's why I agree with many who say the GOP is done.. finis... They are going to lose their base over this in attempting to bring in more Latinos - which they will never get anyway.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 13, 2013 07:43 AM (UTq/I)


It's not for the GOP , it's for the political class.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 03:49 AM (AWmfW)

113 @98 I don't care about the optics, we do something or else we consign ourselves to the political wilderness - forever.

Posted by: kreplach at June 13, 2013 03:49 AM (eiJIn)

114 What would happen if millions of Americans made a firm decision to become ungovernable? Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 07:47 AM (JQuNB) I think that's called Detroit, Chicago, LA, etc.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 03:49 AM (XIxXP)

115 Wow, reading Paul Ryan's latest words on amnesty (just read the recap on Levin's rant), it's shaping up to really show the fix really is in, even in the House.  He doesn't appear concerned at all for what his own party's base is saying, how angry we are.  I'm living in the Twilight Zone. 

Posted by: Lady in Black at June 13, 2013 03:50 AM (ovWeo)

116 OSP, that is the wrong type of ungovernable.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:51 AM (brJMf)

117 115 What would happen if millions of Americans made a firm decision to become ungovernable? Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 07:47 AM (JQuNB) I think that's called Detroit, Chicago, LA, etc. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 07:49 AM Oddly enough, I think Chicago, Detroit and LA are being governed exactly as intended. Not by the honest citizens trapped there, mind you.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:51 AM (+98Gb)

118 So I'm at the Postal Service site wanting to cut my mail service for a couple of days. Required fields -- phone number and email address. Fuck em, they can get that from the NSA.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 03:53 AM (U2UQk)

119 OSP, that is the wrong type of ungovernable. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 07:51 AM (brJMf) Oh, OK then, good morning.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 03:53 AM (XIxXP)

120 Would be nice to see a very large number of people show up next Wednesday in DC. Not sure I can make it, but will try. Maybe a national, or at least, mass east coast Moron Meet-up on the Mall????

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 03:53 AM (+98Gb)

121 101 I blame bush. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 07:41 AM (+98Gb) Hee hee, snicker, snicker. This is why I lurk here!

Posted by: 'Ette in training, a striving wannabe at June 13, 2013 03:54 AM (zvxqj)

122 I always piss off liberals when I ask why Sesame Street needs to make new epsiodes.

The oldest episodes have labels warning parents that they're not suitable for children.  They show monsters "modeling bad behavior" by having fun and eating cookies.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ drinking beer at June 13, 2013 03:55 AM (hO8IJ)

123 NSA's mission is to monitor. They can never monitor everybody's communications but they'll do their best. That's the 'mission'. As long as they can monitor as many as possible they are satisfied. It doesn't follow from that that any individual american gets hurt.

Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 03:56 AM (24Q8U)

124 Hey OSP 

Looks at Amazon tracking history for Limits of Power.  Wonder if I hit up local post office this afternoon I could intercept and snag it tonight.  Then lose myself back in Moon's universe.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 03:56 AM (brJMf)

125 Someone tried to sneak on the Zimmerman jury claiming he has reached no conclusions yet he had a website in which he declared that Zimmerman ought to be shot in the head. As a commentatorr on "Legal Insurrection" notes: Juba Doobai! | June 13, 2013 at 2:32 am "No matter the evidence, Zimmerman will be found guilty and jailed. In prison, it is unlikely he will live safely or long. When Obama stuck his oar in and declared “if he had a son…”, at that point, it became pretty much impossible for Zimmerman to receive fair treatment at the hands of the law. The case was then no longer a legal matter but a political one, and everything has been done and is being by the prosecution to ensure that Zimmerman is railroaded. When people are marching up and down demanding “justice”, regardless of the facts, there is an implicit threat that if their demands are not met Zimmerman and others will not be safe. That is not rule of law; that is rule of man. What is happening in FL vis-a-vis Zimmerman is consistent with what is happening all across America, and the lawlessness comes from the White House on down."

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 03:57 AM (E5Yns)

126 I see that the postal service accepts 867-5309 and JohnDoe@ as valid phone number and email addresses. Though I probably just committed my first felony of the day. Before 8:00 a.m. -- a new record.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 03:58 AM (U2UQk)

127 91 -

Gloating because Ace agreed with him for once?

These guys are spilling lots of words, just to tell us this Snowden character is shady. 

Thanks boys, we got it.  I'm not sure who is arguing with you, but the question you don't seem to be answering is, so what?   Are you down with government spying on American citizens or not?  Or are you fine with the Obama administration's explanations on all this, because, as we know they  have completely and utterly earned our trust in this matter, and in all others. 

Posted by: BurtTC at June 13, 2013 03:58 AM (BeSEI)

128 No Vic news. No coffee yet. This day has already gone wrong. Whachoo all talkin bout?

Posted by: mindful webworker waves hi at June 13, 2013 04:01 AM (7KxSm)

129 What is happening in FL vis-a-vis Zimmerman is consistent with what is happening all across America, and the lawlessness comes from the White House on down."

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 07:57 AM (E5Yns)



And it featured another gutless Repuke, Rick Scott, selling Zimmerman out to the race hustlers instead of letting the system work just like it does for every other citizen.  Great conservative values, Rick!

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 04:01 AM (2wg/Q)

130 124 NSA's mission is to monitor. They can never monitor everybody's communications but they'll do their best. That's the 'mission'. As long as they can monitor as many as possible they are satisfied. It doesn't follow from that that any individual american gets hurt.

Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 07:56 AM (24Q8U)


Woooord!!

Posted by: IRS at June 13, 2013 04:01 AM (AWmfW)

131 No Vic news. No coffee yet. This day has already gone wrong. Whachoo all talkin bout? Posted by: mindful webworker waves hi at June 13, 2013 08:01 AM (7KxSm) We think Gabe has the hots for this Snowden guy.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:02 AM (XIxXP)

132 129 No Vic news. No coffee yet. This day has already gone wrong. Whachoo all talkin bout? Posted by: mindful webworker waves hi at June 13, 2013 08:01 AM (7KxSm) All I got out of this is vintage Danish bush and Sesame Street, which is probably deeply wrong. Too tired to care, though.

Posted by: joncelli at June 13, 2013 04:02 AM (vh67+)

133 Has their been a SCOTUS session without a VRA case?

Posted by: Jean at June 13, 2013 04:03 AM (CMlD4)

134 All I got out of this is vintage Danish bush and Sesame Street, This post is brought to you by the letters 'V' and 'D'!

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 04:04 AM (MMC8r)

135 And it featured another gutless Repuke, Rick Scott, selling Zimmerman out to the race hustlers instead of letting the system work just like it does for every other citizen. Great conservative values, Rick!

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 08:01 AM (2wg/Q)


It would have been a great moment to reach out to hispanics too. 

But he chose to follow the anti freedom policy of Washington DC.


Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:04 AM (AWmfW)

136 We found a Scandi! May we keep him? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 07:30 AM (JDIKC) Better the Scandi than the Brony.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:04 AM (da5Wo)

137 What the jury wants to know joncelli, was Elmo amused?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:05 AM (brJMf)

138 We found a Scandi! May we keep him? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 13, 2013 07:30 AM (JDIKC) I think more people pretend to be scandis than there are actual scandis.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:06 AM (XIxXP)

139 Here ya go BCochran since you refuse to admit to your inner Broniness
http://youtu.be/n9aYrURLHh0

The Brain analyses history in order to conquer the world.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:06 AM (brJMf)

140 Vintage Danish bush on Sesame Street? Wow. They have changed things up since my kids watched it.

Posted by: mindful webworker scratches head, yawns, sips coffee at June 13, 2013 04:07 AM (7KxSm)

141 For the first time, America's racial and ethnic minorities now make up about half of the under-5 age group, the government said Thursday. It's a historic shift that shows how young people are at the forefront of sweeping changes by race and class. snip Fueled by immigration and high rates of birth, particularly among Hispanics, racial and ethnic minorities are now growing more rapidly in numbers than whites. Time for an 'affirmative action' program for people with low melanin content.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 04:07 AM (U2UQk)

142 58 Bevel L, Scooter Libby went to jail for NOT outing Val Plame.... I don't give a fuck how noble Clapper is in lying we need a scalp or three...

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:07 AM (aid28)

143

 ....It doesn't follow from that that any individual american gets hurt.

Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 07:56 AM (24Q8U)

 

 

Ha...Ha...Ha.

 
Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning.

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 04:07 AM (PBm/l)

144

Good morning Horde - and little NSA people *waves*

 

In all seriousness, could this be true? 

 

http://tinyurl.com/klnv2n8

 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 04:08 AM (zFUKI)

145 The thing about Snowden is, no matter why he did what he did, he represents a failure on the part of the Obama administration. Even if he is a sketchy luap nor supporter radical libertarian type who only took the job to look for abuses he already believed to be occurring and steal documents to embarrass the US--it was Obama's admin that gave him access to the stuff.

We would be far better off directing our ire toward the administration. Snowden the man whether he is a traitor or a hero is Obama's problem, make him deal with it (while taking the opportunity to strip some bark off Barry's ass for incompetence).

BTW, We always wonder how come the government leaks like a sieve when there is a GOP Pres but no one flips on a Dem--I got a pretty good idea why that is.....




Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at June 13, 2013 04:08 AM (Nl4r1)

146 1 more day and off to Disneyworld! from some of what I read, this should not be celebrated, but feared So now Dempsey says there was no stand down order regarding Benghazi. WTF. 9 months and the story still s a changin'.

Posted by: RWC at June 13, 2013 04:09 AM (Wl/Ht)

147 Today's scandalous court procedures were brought to you by Juror E-7. Say it with me, kids....

Posted by: arugula monster at June 13, 2013 04:10 AM (7KxSm)

148 Fueled by immigration and high rates of birth, particularly among Hispanics, racial and ethnic minorities are now growing more rapidly in numbers than whites. What happens when you have 50%+ of the population raised on a diet of grievance and entitlement and groupthink?

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 04:10 AM (MMC8r)

149 72 Captain Hate, Where am I gonna go? Probably to the democrat party. I hate the race baiting ecotards but they are szupposed to be scum it's why I hate them. Rove ismaking ME scum.

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:11 AM (aid28)

150 What happens when you have 50%+ of the population raised on a diet of grievance and entitlement and groupthink? Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 08:10 AM (MMC8r) Greece is the word.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:11 AM (da5Wo)

151 Top story on Drudge...Congress slimes complaining about the effect of Obamacare on their own hospitalization costs.   Yep, they won't have us paying 75% of their bill any more.  They have to go on the exchanges and their premiums will go up 30%.  I guess some staff are  talking about leaving. If they change that,  it will be political suicide.

Posted by: Deanna at June 13, 2013 04:12 AM (KL8DP)

152 Your mileage may vary if you got a guzzler
http://tinyurl.com/mklnzg8

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:12 AM (brJMf)

153 Greece is the word.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:11 AM (da5Wo)

 

 

 

Nicely played, sir. 

 

Early threadwinner

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 04:13 AM (zFUKI)

154 There is absolutely no reason to doubt Snowden's first set of claims.

By going after a generic anonymous leaker immediately on release of the story about PRISM the government confirmed that the story was true. Furthermore the POTUS - by immediately doing what he did - confirmed that he knew what PRISM was, and that he used it regularly.

It is a violation of federal wiretap laws to intercept private electronic communications without a specific warrant. The Internet is a point to point communications media - if Charlie intercepts an email from Adam meant for Beverly that is a violation. PRISM represents trillions of felony counts of wiretap law violations. It is utterly lawless behavior on a breath taking 1984 level. To ignore it - as the original poster seems to urge us to do is to acquiesce to tyranny of the worst possible sort.
 


Posted by: [/i] An Observation at June 13, 2013 04:13 AM (ylhEn)

155 Greece is the word. Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:11 AM (da5Wo) And the Homonym.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:14 AM (XIxXP)

156 Edward Snowden has the biggest set of balls in America. This patriot gave up a cushy job, life in Hawaii, his family, his friends, his girlfriend, all to protect YOUR liberty and freedom. This man is willing to sacrifice his own life, liberty and sacred honor for ours. Kind of reminds me of a particular group of American patriots in the late 18th century.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 04:15 AM (7ObY1)

157

In all seriousness, could this be true?

http://tinyurl.com/klnv2n8

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 08:08 AM (zFUKI)


 

Why not? We are supporting the muzzies that helped spawn Bin Laden and carried out many terrorist attacks.

 

Wouldn't want to upset our "allies."

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 04:15 AM (PBm/l)

158 Do to recent unforeseen circumstances, we will no loger be reading your emails or listening to your phone calls, were just gonna have an agent move into your homes with you.  Thank you for your patience in this matter.

Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 04:15 AM (jJA/4)

159 Government Printing Office to issue updated version of the Constitution.  Cover to contain President Obama's trademarked "Forward" logo.  Also, First and Fourth Amendments will be deleted.   

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at June 13, 2013 04:15 AM (wbmaj)

160

Finally, an article on PRISM that makes sense, and goes further to the root.

 

The issue, indeed, appears to be the laws themselves.

 

Protecting the American People is job #2.  Protecting the Constitution is job #1.  It wasn't that long ago that people understood this.  Schools taught it.  Adults discussed it. 

 

If we don't fix this, we're in real trouble...

Posted by: RobM1981 at June 13, 2013 04:16 AM (lV1tZ)

161 124 NSA's mission is to monitor. They can never monitor everybody's communications but they'll do their best. That's the 'mission'. As long as they can monitor as many as possible they are satisfied. It doesn't follow from that that any individual american gets hurt. Posted by: Theo at June 13, 2013 07:56 AM (24Q8U) Is that a swastika on your arm or are you just happy to see me?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 04:16 AM (+98Gb)

162 1 more day and off to Disneyworld! June 3-9 is 'Gay Days' this year. So you're gonna miss out on all the fun. Funny how they hid the actual date in a graphic element, not as an easily searchable text field.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 04:16 AM (U2UQk)

163 We covered yesterday's events at the Zimmerman trial at length at Legal Insurrection, including screeen-caps of the "Coffee Party Progressives" site (wonder if they are a 503?). In addition to the crazy Prog who tried to sneak onto the jury, there was another guy who believes that killing is always murder, even if done in self-defense,. There was also woman who says she can't imagine ever owning a gun or shooting someone, which might make for an awkward juror on a case that is likely to center on armed self-defense by a licensed CCW civilian. Check it out: http://bit.ly/19uoQ16

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at June 13, 2013 04:17 AM (iZ0BY)

164 I imagine that Zimmermann's attorneys made a motion to move the trial to another location?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2013 04:18 AM (+98Gb)

165 You can bet when Hildog becomes President she will be going over any and everything NAS and other government spies can supply her with.  (She has done it before)

Posted by: Case at June 13, 2013 04:19 AM (o00SF)

166 Marybeth, A commentator to the article notes: "In the FBI doc that was linked (which I bet no one read), there is no mention of "mosque", "Islam", or "Muslim". There are, however, 26 references to religion. Here's one: "Race, ethnicity, religion, or national origin alone can never constitute the sole basis for initiating investigative activity. Although these characteristics may be taken into account under certain circumstances, there must be an independent authorized law enforcement or national security purpose for initiating investigative activity." In other words, Christian churches are also exempt." Supposedly anyway

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 04:19 AM (E5Yns)

167 Me. Your mouth. My schlong. Trust me.

Posted by: M. Rubio at June 13, 2013 04:21 AM (VrVBw)

168 157 Edward Snowden has the biggest set of balls in America. This patriot gave up a cushy job, life in Hawaii, his family, his friends, his girlfriend, all to protect YOUR liberty and freedom.

This man is willing to sacrifice his own life, liberty and sacred honor for ours.

Kind of reminds me of a particular group of American patriots in the late 18th century.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 08:15 AM (7ObY1)


I think so too. It's not a small thing. 

He could have stayed in his cubicle, or sold the stuff to china without telling anyone.

But jealous pundits are reminded of their cowardice and starts to snipe at Snowden.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:21 AM (AWmfW)

169 167 Fenlon Spoke, Uncle JAN N has an app for that.... Your Church hae veerans in it? There's your probable cause remember?

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:22 AM (aid28)

170 there was another guy who believes that killing is always murder, even if done in self-defense,. There was also woman who says she can't imagine ever owning a gun or shooting someone,
Posted by: Law of Self Defense at June 13, 2013 08:17 AM
========================================================

Lots of times people in jury pools say stuff to get out of serving. Don't know if that's the case here but I saw it when I served on a jury in a murder trial.


Posted by: Deanna at June 13, 2013 04:23 AM (KL8DP)

171 159 Do to recent unforeseen circumstances, we will no loger be reading your emails or listening to your phone calls, were just gonna have an agent move into your homes with you Awesome, I knew they'd get around to fucking with the Third Amendment eventually.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 04:23 AM (Vgn84)

172 Steven Spielberg on Wednesday predicted an "implosion" in the film industry is inevitable, whereby a half dozen or so $250 million movies flop at the box office and alter the industry forever. What comes next -- or even before then -- will be price variances at movie theaters, where "you're gonna have to pay $25 for the next Iron Man, you're probably only going to have to pay $7 to see Lincoln." He also said that Lincoln came "this close" to being an HBO movie instead of a theatrical release. Cannes: Oscar Rivals Steven Spielberg, Ang Lee Bury Hatchet for Jury Duty George Lucas agreed that massive changes are afoot, including film exhibition morphing somewhat into a Broadway play model, whereby fewer movies are released, they stay in theaters for a year and ticket prices are much higher. His prediction prompted Spielberg to recall that his 1982 film E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial stayed in theaters for a year and four months. http://goo.gl/nZLB6 [These guys are nuts if they think people will pay $25 for a ticket or wait a year for release to DVD.]

Posted by: A Broken Hearted Ewok at June 13, 2013 04:24 AM (RZwdH)

173 I think so too. It's not a small thing.He could have stayed in his cubicle, or sold the stuff to china without telling anyone. But jealous pundits are reminded of their cowardice and starts to snipe at Snowden. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 08:21 AM (AWmfW) Didn't Bradly Manning do the same shit for basically the same reasons? He didn't like what was going on. Now he's a traitor.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:24 AM (XIxXP)

174 Veterans even.... The donks are being handed power en perpetual by team Elephant ass.... Time for plan B

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:24 AM (aid28)

175 So, do you want your coffee black or with cream. Mr. Agent?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 04:24 AM (E5Yns)

176 I hope someone is keeping track of this shit. At some point in the future, an opposition party will rise. These progressive statists will fall. And every time the new party steps in shit, we can play their game. Repeat after me: "Remember that guy Obama? Yeah, well, shut the fuck up..."

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 13, 2013 04:25 AM (qpah5)

177 The house will vote today on partial dream amnesty

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 13, 2013 04:25 AM (R8hU8)

178

BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 08:15 AM (7ObY1)

 

Hyperbole much?

 

Dude worked there for three months, and based on the timeline, it's fair to say he started at BAH for the express purpose of finding documents that fit his predetermined narrative.

 

He lied about his "special forces" training. 

 

If anything, he's a narcissist poser wannabe.  Comparing him to the likes of Hamilton, Jefferson, et al is to insult them.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:25 AM (tVWQB)

179
The issue, indeed, appears to be the laws themselves.

Protecting the American People is job #2. Protecting the Constitution is job #1. It wasn't that long ago that people understood this. Schools taught it. Adults discussed it.

If we don't fix this, we're in real trouble...

Posted by: RobM1981 at June 13, 2013 08:16 AM (lV1tZ)


There are no laws when judges are chosen to be activists.

Look at David Gregorys gun crimes white wash.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:26 AM (AWmfW)

180 Steven Spielberg on Wednesday predicted an "implosion" in the film industry is inevitable, whereby a half dozen or so $250 million movies flop at the box office and alter the industry forever. He hasn't figured out that those of us that can spend 80-100 bucks on a movie with their family don't want to be lectured to poltically. Instead we go see those little films made by Christians for $500,000.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:26 AM (XIxXP)

181
Hyperbole much?

Dude worked there for three months, and based on the timeline, it's fair to say he started at BAH for the express purpose of finding documents that fit his predetermined narrative.

He lied about his "special forces" training.

If anything, he's a narcissist poser wannabe. Comparing him to the likes of Hamilton, Jefferson, et al is to insult them.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 08:25 AM (tVWQB)


He's been working for NSA at least since 2009.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:27 AM (AWmfW)

182 If an Agent moves in, I expect the said Agent to paid half the mortgage plus a monthly stipend to cover food expenses and electricity.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:27 AM (brJMf)

183

@176  Cream and 10 sugars please, helps me stay observant

Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (jJA/4)

184 "If anything, he's a narcissist poser wannabe. Comparing him to the likes of Hamilton, Jefferson, et al is to insult them." I agree.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (E5Yns)

185 A production company got nailed for not paying their "interns" a wage. These people make millions yet they can't pay people min. wage for a couple of months. Another example of Hollywood overpaying themselves millions and stiffing everyone else and then pretending that they are not the 1% -- and the leftards buying into their bullshit.

Posted by: waldo at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (RZwdH)

186
Why not? We are supporting the muzzies that helped spawn Bin Laden and carried out many terrorist attacks.

Wouldn't want to upset our "allies."

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 08:15 AM (PBm/l)

 

 

I know.  Our gut tells us it's indeed likely with this regime. 

 

But if someone could get their hands on some concrete proof?

 

Polls are already indicating that Americans are increasingly disturbed about the privacy invasion. 

 

If churches & synagogues are also exempt from the data collection, then probably not much of a case can be made. 

 

But if they are not exempt? 

 

Big potential for backlash against the man-child and his henchmen.

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (zFUKI)

187 @183  You will receive a free phone and LIKE IT

Posted by: NSA at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (jJA/4)

188 Didn't Bradly Manning do the same shit for basically the same reasons? He didn't like what was going on. Now he's a traitor.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 08:24 AM (XIxXP)


No .

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:28 AM (AWmfW)

189

He's been working for NSA at least since 2009.

 

Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 08:27 AM (AWmfW)

 

Doing what.....?  

 

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:29 AM (tVWQB)

190 Dude worked there for
three months, and based on the timeline, it's fair to say he started at
BAH for the express purpose of finding documents that fit his
predetermined narrative.


I Do Not Care.  What the government is doing is dangerous at best, and tyrannical at worst.


He lied about his "special forces" training.


I Do Not Care.  What the government is doing is dangerous at best, and tyrannical at worst.


If anything, he's a narcissist poser wannabe.

I Do Not Care.  What the government is doing is dangerous at best, and tyrannical at worst.

Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 04:29 AM (sxq57)

191 Hammer the EPA for all its worth, Gabe.   That's a scandal -- not a strong enough word, but it'll do in a pinch -- that needs MUCH more play.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at June 13, 2013 04:29 AM (4df7R)

192 A Texas high school principal threatened to sabotage a valedictorian’s appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy after the student delivered a speech that referenced God and the U.S. Constitution, Fox News has learned. FOLLOW TODD ON FACEBOOK FOR CULTURE WAR NEWS. CLICK HERE TO JOIN! Hiram Sasser, director of litigation with the Liberty Institute, said Joshua High School principal Mick Cochran threatened to write a letter to the U.S. Naval Academy disparaging the character of Remington Reimer. “It was intimidating having my high school principal threaten my future because I wanted to stand up for the Constitution and acknowledge my faith and not simply read a government approved speech, the teenager said. Sasser is now representing the teenager and is calling for the Joshua Independent School District to issue a public statement exonerating him of any wrongdoing. He said the speech was edited and reviewed by four different school officials – including an officer in the JROTC. Sasser said the censorship violated federal and state laws. “All he did was simply follow state law and Joshua ISD policy,” he said. Reimer, a senior at Joshua High School, made national headlines on June 6 when officials cut off his microphone in mid-speech after he strayed from pre-approved remarks and began talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ. Reimer, who has received an appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy, thanked God for “sending His only son to die for me and the rest of the world,” the Joshua Star reported. The following day the principal met with Reimer’s father and informed him “that he intended to punish Remington for his perceived misdeed.” “Specifically, he threatened to send a letter to the United States Naval Academy advising them that Remington has poor character or words to that effect,” Sasser told Fox News. After consulting with a school attorney, the principal temporarily retracted the threat, Sasser said. “The principal said he wanted to try to ruin him for what he did – for talking about the Constitution and his faith,” Sasser said. “I don’t know if he’s going to be able to continue to be the principal of that school.” The people who run our public schools are out of control and need to be reigned in. That principal is a asshole and a bully.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 04:30 AM (9Bj8R)

193 179 John Tant, I think the guy is a scumball, I also think Clapper and the NSA have no fucking business trying to put the entire United States under defacto surveillance.... The two aren't mutually exclusive and I think the American experiment is cming to an end pretty much guaranteed. Ogabe and Schumer will keep importing as much non Euro thirs world scum as it takes to get their Marx on. The GOP will clap and cheer so the GOP is also the enemy

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:30 AM (aid28)

194 171 there was another guy who believes that killing is always murder, even if done in self-defense,. There was also woman who says she can't imagine ever owning a gun or shooting someone, Posted by: Law of Self Defense at June 13, 2013 08:17 AM ======================================================== Lots of times people in jury pools say stuff to get out of serving. Don't know if that's the case here but I saw it when I served on a jury in a murder trial. Posted by: Deanna at June 13, 2013 08:23 AM (KL8DP) I've heard the same bs from people not on juries. They also can't understand simple legal concepts.

Posted by: waldo at June 13, 2013 04:30 AM (RZwdH)

195 The Hollywood movie industry will implode? Thank God.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at June 13, 2013 04:30 AM (JQuNB)

196 --->Didn't Bradly Manning do the same shit for basically the same reasons? He didn't like what was going on. Now he's a traitor.


Manning gave operational stuff that may have gotten people killed.

Jury's out on Snowden.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at June 13, 2013 04:31 AM (WVMUQ)

197

June 3-9 is 'Gay Days' this year. So you're gonna miss out on all the fun.

Funny how they hid the actual date in a graphic element, not as an easily searchable text field.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request  at June 13, 2013 08:16 AM (U2UQk)


 

In the late 90s a friend was going to spend a long weekend at Disneyworld with his and several other families. He came to work that Monday still in a rage. That's when we first heard about 'gay days'.

 

Disney kept it secret then and did not impose any behaviour or dress code limits. The families and their kids were treated horribly. He demanded, and recieved full refunds. He's never been back since.

Posted by: ExSnipe at June 13, 2013 04:31 AM (PBm/l)

198 Spielberg's overlooking the possibility that the theater model might be what goes.

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 04:31 AM (MMC8r)

199 BTW Happy Birthday George HW Bush.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:31 AM (brJMf)

200 http://tinyurl.com/ksam6rf

Sweet Lord Almighty. What is with this?

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 04:32 AM (KTytI)

201 If an Agent moves in, I expect the said Agent to paid half the mortgage plus a monthly stipend to cover food expenses and electricity. It's a tax!

Posted by: Supreme Overlord John Roberts at June 13, 2013 04:32 AM (MMC8r)

202

I Do Not Care

 

GMan at June 13, 2013 08:29 AM (sxq57)

 

------------

 

You do not care that this guy is being lionized by someone?

 

You know, it's entirely possible, probable even, that there are no angels here.  I can vilify the guy without losing focus of the ball game here.  Lots of people can.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:33 AM (tVWQB)

203 Let us draw an analogy to the phone system. Tracing a phone call legally requires the permission of at least one of the parties to the conversation. The FBI would need a warrant to get the 'meta data' from the phone system - they couldn't install computer equipment to record the mechanical switch setting showing  who is calling who and when they called without such a warrant.  Tracing all calls on the system is clearly illegal.

Even if PRISM is exploiting back doors in routers each warantless intercept is a felony wiretap law violation.





Posted by: [/i] An Observation at June 13, 2013 04:33 AM (ylhEn)

204

I'm thinking the only realistic positive outcome from this Zimmerman case will be a hung jury and GZ's midnight flight out of this country.  There's no other way he lives long enough to see another birthday whether  he's convicted or not.

 

The cities will burn regardless.  Innocent people will die at the hands of thugs.  Nothing will be done.  We will sit there on our fat asses and rot.

 

I absolutely hate what this nation has become.

Posted by: Jaws at June 13, 2013 04:34 AM (4I3Uo)

205 You do not care that this guy is being lionized by someone?

You know, it's entirely possible, probable even, that there are no angels here. I can vilify the guy without losing focus of the ball game here. Lots of people can.

Nope, I don't care one bit about Snowden.  I do not care WHO leaked this stuff.  I do not care what kind of person they are, why they did it, what they had for lunch, how much money they make or anything else about them.  What I DO care about is that the government is spying on all of us.

Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 04:34 AM (sxq57)

206 Manning gave operational stuff that may have gotten people killed. Jury's out on Snowden. Posted by: typo dynamofo at June 13, 2013 08:31 AM (WVMUQ) My point is that both men took an oath and signed some paperwork saying they would keep secrets. Both men disagreed with the secrets they were supposed to keep. Both men divulged those secrets. If everyone that is in a position similar to theirs decided they didn't agree with what was going on and divulged the info, we would all be in some really deep shit.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:35 AM (XIxXP)

207 173 [These guys are nuts if they think people will pay $25 for a ticket or wait a year for release to DVD.]

They are truly nuts... I might pay 25 but instead of going to see 1 or 2 movies a month I'll see one or 2 a year. ..

Posted by: ET at June 13, 2013 04:35 AM (YpjaN)

208 If only only Snowden had some underage Dominican crack whores to back up his claims

Posted by: occam at June 13, 2013 04:36 AM (XrIHk)

209 June 3-9 is 'Gay Days' this year. So you're gonna miss out on all the fun.

Funny how they hid the actual date in a graphic element, not as an easily searchable text field.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request at June 13, 2013 08:16 AM (U2UQk)



"Hey mommy look over there, that guy has a sign above his head that says he is a human urinal, what does that mean?"

Posted by: Samuel Adams at June 13, 2013 04:36 AM (cK0tU)

210

5 It's a good day to do Quaternions.


Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 06:39 AM (KTytI)

What are you using quaternions for? A matrix is always faster...

Posted by: McStool at June 13, 2013 04:36 AM (rxnpE)

211 Oh look our non-Scandi has crawled out from under a moss flecked stone bridge in Lower Revolta.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:36 AM (brJMf)

212 >My skepticism extends to the claims he makes that go beyond the content of the PRISM slides. His claims are utterly uncorroborated and, indeed, have been resoundingly denied by everyone in a position to know.<

You either don't read enough or you're a circus clown in disguise.

The NSA knows what Snowden has in his possession. They track access, printing and just about anything done on their systems better than anyone.

The NSA is in the process of briefing Congress on what Snowden has to eliminate the surprise factor. Suffice to say the most common word used to describe these revelations is "stunning".

First, I hope we are able to mitigate whatever damage this traitor is doing- because to me it seems like quite a bit. Second, he's in Chinese territory and revealing the extent of our ops against the Chinese. I can think of fewer actions more traitorous or damaging. He is providing avenues and keys for our enemies to investigate potential access/sources and mitigate any intelligence value. In the process, both he and Greenwald are putting us all at risk for increased danger. That's not speculation it's fact.

Personally, I hope he hangs on a rope for what he's done.

As to the legal and Fourth Amendment issues, we will obviously get to that. But there were other ways to litigate Snowden's concerns beside revealing to our enemies the extent of our intelligence operations. I am certainly uncomfortable, if proven true, with the scope and extent of this data gathering on Americans. If found to be true and unconstitutional the perpetrators should spend the rest of their lives in prison. But that is separate and distinct from Snowden's means of revealing this and the apparatus supporting his disclosure. 

Posted by: Marcus at June 13, 2013 04:37 AM (GGCsk)

213 Nope, I don't care one bit about Snowden. I do not care WHO leaked this stuff. I do not care what kind of person they are, why they did it, what they had for lunch, how much money they make or anything else about them. What I DO care about is that the government is spying on all of us. Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 08:34 AM (sxq57) Your shocked, shocked I say, that the Gov is spying on us? Were you born yesterday? Spare me the indignation. Snowden violated every secrecy oath he ever took and then ran to an enemy country. Not to mention he left a hot as hell girl friend behind, which goes to his judgement and state of mind.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 04:37 AM (9Bj8R)

214 Changing my nick in honor of the feeling that while I slept my fellow countrymen were changed by the body snatchers into people who are just fine with socialism and a surveillance state.


Posted by: rip van winkin at the 80s at June 13, 2013 04:37 AM (WVMUQ)

215 Snowden is as much a hero as serial philanderer,  Bill Clinton.

Take an oath, keep an oath.

Posted by: Fritz at June 13, 2013 04:37 AM (UzPAd)

216

Nope, I don't care one bit about Snowden. I do not care WHO leaked this stuff. I do not care what kind of person they are, why they did it, what they had for lunch, how much money they make or anything else about them. What I DO care about is that the government is spying on all of us.

 

GMan at June 13, 2013 08:34 AM (sxq57)

 

----------------

 

Well, since I made my comment in response to someone who likened him to the Framers, I'm not sure how where you're coming from is relevant to what I had written.

 

 

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:38 AM (tVWQB)

217 My point is that both men took an oath and signed some paperwork saying they would keep secrets. Both men disagreed with the secrets they were supposed to keep. Both men divulged those secrets. If everyone that is in a position similar to theirs decided they didn't agree with what was going on and divulged the info, we would all be in some really deep shit.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 08:35 AM (XIxXP)


Both eat food! They're the same!

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 04:38 AM (AWmfW)

218 Nope, I don't care one bit about Snowden. I do not care WHO leaked this stuff. I do not care what kind of person they are, why they did it, what they had for lunch, how much money they make or anything else about them. What I DO care about is that the government is spying on all of us.

Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 08:34 AM (sxq57)

 

 

Call me dense but - although I don't think Snowden is an angel, I still do NOT understand what this guy has leaked, other than the process by which the government is spying on everyone in this country. 

 

Terrorists are not the brightest bulbs in the lamppost, but I think they'd be able to figure that much out. 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 04:38 AM (zFUKI)

219 Yeah... um... about that "take an oath, keep an oath" thing, does that apply when you uncover information that the Government is doing something massively illegal or unethical?

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 04:39 AM (QXlbZ)

220 Both eat food! They're the same! Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 13, 2013 08:38 AM (AWmfW) I think the trees are blocking your view of the forest.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:39 AM (XIxXP)

221 it's not about snowden.....it's about our gov't spying on us..... baby, bath water, thud

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl..back home at June 13, 2013 04:39 AM (8JJ6O)

222 More Spielberg: "People simply have a limited amount of time, said Spielberg. "We can't expand the week. We can't expand the 24-hour cycle. So we're stuck with so many choices." The enormous amount of available content has pushed movie studios to be more conservative, banking on the power of event films to break through the white noise of a crowded marketplace. "You're at the point right now where a studio would rather invest $250 million in one film for a real shot at the brass ring," he said, "than make a whole bunch of really interesting, deeply personal — and even maybe historical — projects that may get lost in the shuffle because there's only 24 hours." For such a crowded marketplace, how come there are so many crappy films?

Posted by: waldo at June 13, 2013 04:39 AM (RZwdH)

223 Your shocked, shocked I say, that the Gov is spying on us? Were you born yesterday? Spare me the indignation. Snowden violated every secrecy oath he ever took and then ran to an enemy country. Not to mention he left a hot as hell girl friend behind, which goes to his judgement and state of mind.

Are you an idiot?  I didn't think so...but now, not so sure.  I'm amazed at the apologists is all.


Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 04:39 AM (sxq57)

224 214 NeverGiveUp, Imagine if this had broke under Bush.... I'm tired of the Feds EVER getting the benefit of the doubt... Break it down, scatter the rubble.

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:40 AM (aid28)

225 Gosh I can't wait for the SCOTUS to overturn DOMA because of federalism.  And then take federalism bend it over and fuck it right up the ass by finding that gay marriage is a civil right and nullify all bans in state constitutions.

Posted by: buzzion at June 13, 2013 04:40 AM (LI48c)

226 The cities will burn regardless. Innocent people will die at the hands of thugs. Nothing will be done. We will sit there on our fat asses and rot. I'm wondering what kind of dampening effect record gun sales will have. People remember the OJ riots, and I don't think they're not planning ahead. Of course, captive residents in 'gun-free' communities, it sucks to be you.

Posted by: zsasz at June 13, 2013 04:40 AM (MMC8r)

227 Careful folks, by claiming Snowden should suffer consequences you're treading into Nazi territory...

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:40 AM (da5Wo)

228 Careful folks, by claiming Snowden should suffer consequences you're treading into Nazi territory... Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:40 AM (da5Wo) No no, that's just you, boxcar willy.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:41 AM (XIxXP)

229 Ugh, USD to JPY exchange rate is horrible.  $1USD gets just 94Yen.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:41 AM (brJMf)

230 I keep hearing alot about Oaths but not the one to protect and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC



Snowden aside- If the secret you must keep is wholesale raping of the Constitutional rights of your fellows you have already violated an oath.

Posted by: rip van winkin at the 80s at June 13, 2013 04:42 AM (WVMUQ)

231 No no, that's just you, boxcar willy. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 08:41 AM (XIxXP) Oh. I'm special? *claps hands*

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:42 AM (da5Wo)

232 Take an oath, keep an oath. Posted by: Fritz at June 13, 2013 08:37 AM ***** It worked for Dachau.

Posted by: Beto at June 13, 2013 04:42 AM (VWfCN)

233 Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:40 AM (da5Wo)

Bourbon for breakfast?

Snowden should be held responsible for his actions. Why can't we also be thankful that what he exposed is important?

Two competing ideas! It's difficult, but manageable with some effort.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 04:42 AM (WW8xK)

234 230 Anna Puma, "Mission accomplished!" //Obama, Geithner, Bukakke, EPA, Occutards

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:43 AM (aid28)

235

Ugh, USD to JPY exchange rate is horrible. $1USD gets just 94Yen.

 

-------------

 

Wow.  I haven't looked in several years, but that's just shameful.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:43 AM (tVWQB)

236 This comment coming to you from a lead-lined room in an undisclosed location.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 13, 2013 04:44 AM (659DL)

237 Sooooo any idea why PRISM didn't catch Snowden?

Posted by: occam at June 13, 2013 04:44 AM (XrIHk)

238 Bourbon for breakfast? Snowden should be held responsible for his actions. Why can't we also be thankful that what he exposed is important? Two competing ideas! It's difficult, but manageable with some effort. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 08:42 AM (WW8xK) I wish. Sick as crap. Short of breath this morning. Which is fun. They're not even really competing.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:45 AM (da5Wo)

239 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 08:42 AM (WW8xK) I don't think anyone here is sure what he exposed yet. If he exposed our tools to combat Chinas rape of our civillian and military intellectual property, maybe thats no so good.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:45 AM (XIxXP)

240 231 Rip Van Winkin, Quite...and Boner, Reid, and Ogabe are importing 30 milion people with no deference to the notion... 240ish yeas was a good run

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:45 AM (aid28)

241 Are you an idiot? I didn't think so...but now, not so sure. I'm amazed at the apologists is all. Posted by: GMan at June 13, 2013 08:39 AM (sxq57) Yeah great idea, let every freaken individual in the Military and the Intel Community decide ON THEIR OWN when to violated any and all secrecy oaths and laws. Yeah that will work out great.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 04:45 AM (9Bj8R)

242 I like how the only group excluded from NSA snooping are mosques.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (pT3XC)

243 It has crossed my mind Ace's  published ruminations on the "badness" of NSA spying on domestic citizens,  or characterization of that spying as something likely to be perceives as "going too fart to protect America against terrorist attacks"  is a wagon circle around something bad Republicans (Bush?  Some other guy? "our guys"? have done, or  authorized, or didn't stop.)

Is it?  Because the NSA spying tails into the meta-wrong here,  of government turning its powers on domestic citizens,  and accruing new powers to abuse.

My worst fear is Ace is trying to protect against the culpability of our own,  and for that reason trying to frame the spying as kinda ok and ought to be taken as kinda ok,  because everyone will take it as kinda ok...lets get back to things that are bad and more directly the other guy's (TFG's machines)  fault....

Here's what -  I think it perfectly plausible that Snowden is not the lone gunman on the story,  that someone might have rolled him out  as a kind of trap.   The thing is,  he could be fake and his story made of squirrels moths and ulterior motives and it doesn't matter.   If he were perfectly unimpeachable it also wouldn't matter because we still wouldn't know what is going on  - scope, capabilities,  targets,  future plans. 

The thing is,  if any Republicans are conniving with the Utah facility or Bush did more than he admitted  it isn't important.  What's important is to stop any general warrant -type spying on the domestic population.    Know about,  stop,  forestall,  prevent -  to draw the line.

Posted by: SarahW at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (LYwCh)

244 By the way; it is informative to remember, for the coming riots, that the bastard that broke Reginald Denny's skull in 91 places and sentenced him to a lifetime of trouble with walking and speaking did only 4 years in prison.


Should be interesting times.

Posted by: rip van winkin at the 80s at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (WVMUQ)

245 Damn, the dollar going all tango-uniform and the fucked up spying going on, not to mention the Zimmerman stuff. Wow, some of us thought this "let it burn" stuff was hyperbole.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (cK0tU)

246

127 I see that the postal service accepts 867-5309 and JohnDoe@ as valid phone number and email addresses. Though I probably just committed my first felony of the day.

Before 8:00 a.m. -- a new record.....................................

 

 

Just make sure to remember when they call to answer with "Hello this is Jenny"

Posted by: Molly k. at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (WgeYS)

247 Going too far to.   So, I'm starting my day out right.

Posted by: SarahW at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (LYwCh)

248 meh, thanks to the training program provided by the Korean Grocers Association we are prepared for such things.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 07:38 AM (XIxXP)

 

retweeted! lol!

Posted by: and irresolute at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (DBH1h)

249 I am not sure why anyone is mad at Snowden.  It seems perfectly clear that the intent and letter of the Constitution prevents blanket warrants of the sort that would allow private information to be seized about every single American and who they associate with.  The entire purpose of requiring the issuance of warrants was that a specific charge must be alleged against a specific individual before searches can be conducted.  The government concedes the information is private by pursuing a warrant but they do not allege a crime on anyone's part.  The people running this thing need to be imprisoned.

Gabe seems to think because judges have arrogated to themselves the power to shitcan the Constitution that this somehow constitutes legality.  It does not.  It just proves our government is no longer a legitimate entity operating within the confines of its foundational documents.  When you reach that point it is EVERY decent person's duty to stand up and put an end to it.  That the courts conspired with our legislators to violate our rights  does not give their actions any more legitimacy.  I don't care if Snowden is a Chinese agent, or if he did it for money or attention.  I am going to be pissed at the party who has denied me my rights, not the person who informed me of those violations.

WTF do we even need a Constitution for other than as a handy substitute for toilet paper if we let our government get away with shit like this?


Posted by: Thatch at June 13, 2013 04:46 AM (qYvEa)

250 243 Vashta Narada, Clapper takes care of his homies...

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:48 AM (aid28)

251 If the secret you must keep is wholesale raping of the Constitutional rights of your fellows you have already violated an oath. Excellent. I'm going to borrow that.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 04:48 AM (7ObY1)

252 Morning y'all!

What's going on?

Posted by: EC at June 13, 2013 04:48 AM (GQ8sn)

253 WTF do we even need a Constitution for other than as a handy substitute for toilet paper if we let our government get away with shit like this? Posted by: Thatch at June 13, 2013 08:46 AM (qYvEa) Nice argument, but revealing classified information and running off to Communist China ain't the way to go about it. Sorry

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 04:48 AM (9Bj8R)

254 BCochran go back to bed and let the wife take care of you.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 04:48 AM (brJMf)

255 Not to mention he left a hot as hell girl friend behind, which goes to his judgement and state of mind. Hot as hell? You musta loved the 80 pound Karen Carpenter. Seriously, the 'girlfriends' body fat is so low she probably doesn't menstruate. Might even be stuck in some perpetual PMS -- which would be a pretty valid reason for *him* to flee the country.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 04:49 AM (U2UQk)

256 234 It's difficult, but manageable with some effort. Aka, "Common Sense". Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons - is still the wrong thing.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 04:49 AM (Vgn84)

257 Nice argument, but revealing classified information and running off to Communist China ain't the way to go about it. Sorry Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 13, 2013 08:48 AM (9Bj8R) Yep, that's the part folks seem to be skipping over.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:49 AM (XIxXP)

258 255 BCochran go back to bed and let the wife take care of you. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 13, 2013 08:48 AM (brJMf) No can do. Boss man (dad) is on vacay, which means I'm in charge. Buahahahahahaha

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:49 AM (da5Wo)

259

Sooooo any idea why PRISM didn't catch Snowden?

 

------------

 

Because he's just like James Madison, and shut up, and what, you approve of the government spying on us!?!?!?!11!/?

 

 

/s

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 04:50 AM (tVWQB)

260 They're not even really competing.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:45 AM (da5Wo)

Sure they are blueboy. Snowden exposed (or may have exposed) government malfeasance and overreach. He did this by breaking the law.

He should be made to suffer the consequences of his actions. Trial by jury would be nice. If they think what he did was deserving of punishment? Great. If not? Great.

Shortness of breath is not a good thing. Put your name on the list to see a physician. I think that you belong on list 6B: white professional males. That should get you an appointment sometime in December.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 04:50 AM (WW8xK)

261 Boss man (dad) is on vacay, which means I'm in charge.


...and the Cochran family business legacy collapses in a single day!

Posted by: EC at June 13, 2013 04:50 AM (GQ8sn)

262 "Nope, I don't care one bit about Snowden. I do not care WHO leaked this stuff.... do not care what kind of person they are, why they did it, what they had for lunch, how much money they make or anything else about them.... - GMan But what about the pole-dancing girlfriend?

Posted by: Master of Minutia at June 13, 2013 04:51 AM (5SlKF)

263 He hasn't figured out that those of us that can spend 80-100 bucks on a movie with their family don't want to be lectured to poltically. Instead we go see those little films made by Christians for $500,000.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 08:26 AM (XIxXP)



Or to be insulted with a pile of garbage that nobody in their right mind would inflict upon themselves.  There have been trailers for Grown Ups 2 all over tv recently and, assuming they only show the best scenes to generate interest, there is nothing in it that isn't blatantly obvious and unfunny.  The only more misleading title would be Good Script; although an honest title would be Waste of Time and Money.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 04:51 AM (2wg/Q)

264 Surprisingly I'm really really bored with PRISM/Snowden food fight at HQ.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 13, 2013 04:51 AM (X4HxX)

265 265 Surprisingly I'm really really bored with PRISM/Snowden food fight at HQ. Now, who benefits from folks feeling this way?

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 04:52 AM (Vgn84)

266 #211

Rotating models, of course. Now, I convert it to a matrix before sending it to the GPU, but still; smaller footprint.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 04:52 AM (KTytI)

267 Now, who benefits from folks feeling this way? Posted by: akula_51 at June 13, 2013 08:52 AM (Vgn84) Mitt Romney? Oh wait, I can get this...

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 13, 2013 04:52 AM (X4HxX)

268 Hyperbole much? Dude worked there for three months, and based on the timeline, it's fair to say he started at BAH for the express purpose of finding documents that fit his predetermined narrative. He lied about his "special forces" training. If anything, he's a narcissist poser wannabe. Comparing him to the likes of Hamilton, Jefferson, et al is to insult them. For the last time, I do not fucking care how long he worked there. I do not fucking care how much money he made, what his education was like, or what videos his girlfriend made. I do not fucking care if he has a mole on his neck, I do not fucking care about any of these fucking DISTRACTIONS. He has offered up his very life for his country. Hyperbole? Do you have any fucking idea what the Founders faced? Hanging by the neck until they were dead. Tell me again about hyperbole. The majority of Americans agree with me, and it crosses all political boundries. But you just go ahead supporting Obama's Big Brother nation.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 04:52 AM (7ObY1)

269

"By the way; it is informative to remember, for the coming riots, that the bastard that broke Reginald Denny's skull in 91 places and sentenced him to a lifetime of trouble with walking and speaking did only 4 years in prison.


Should be interesting times."

 

Define "interesting".

 

Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die?

Posted by: Hoban Washburn at June 13, 2013 04:53 AM (4I3Uo)

270 258 OSP, Who's skipping over that.... The "need" of the right to only use data given by abgels is killing us.... Snowden could be Jon Benet's killer for all I care is the NSA acting as a potential domestic spying agency to hand metadata to OFA? That matters more than barn doors and horses

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:53 AM (aid28)

271

Showing off my brand-new shiny knowledge, courtesy of Mark Levin: 

 

Doesn't this whole data collection scandal remind you of the Writs of Assistance - which was one of the grievances of the American colonists against British soldiers? 

 

They had a general warrant, too.

 

Which is why we now have a 4th Amendment. 

 

I'm just a lowly CPA, not fluent in legalese, double-speak and nuance, but it seems pretty clear - at least to me - that the government is overstepping its bounds here. 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 04:53 AM (zFUKI)

272 Just make sure to remember when they call to answer with "Hello this is Jenny" They haven't called yet but I just had two utility trucks parked in front of my house for the past half hour. Just sitting, doing nothing. But the storm is approaching so I guess they decided being parked under 100 foot tall trees goofing off wasn't such a great idea.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request [/i] at June 13, 2013 04:54 AM (U2UQk)

273 "By the way; it is informative to remember, for the coming riots, that the bastard that broke Reginald Denny's skull in 91 places and sentenced him to a lifetime of trouble with walking and speaking did only 4 years in prison.



IIRC didn't Denny even forgive him in front of some cameras?

Posted by: Samuel Adams at June 13, 2013 04:54 AM (cK0tU)

274 Sure they are blueboy. Snowden exposed (or may have exposed) government malfeasance and overreach. He did this by breaking the law. He should be made to suffer the consequences of his actions. Trial by jury would be nice. If they think what he did was deserving of punishment? Great. If not? Great. But see, they aren't. (Here's where I get called a Nazi) Rule of Law matters. That includes the Constitution and the federal laws. The govt (potentially) violated the Constitution with spying on American citizens wholesale. The govt itself pissed on the Law. Snowden then broke, likely, a multitude of laws by revealing classified info. Pissed on the law. Both deserve the consequences of their actions. Shortness of breath is not a good thing. Put your name on the list to see a physician. I think that you belong on list 6B: white professional males. That should get you an appointment sometime in December. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 08:50 AM (WW8xK) I'm feeling a bit better. And zero time to go wait around at a doc's office today. I'm hitting a doc in the box on my way home.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 04:55 AM (da5Wo)

275 Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons - is still the wrong thing.

Posted by: akula_51 at June 13, 2013 08:49 AM (Vgn84)

Agreed. And he should be held accountable. But he is much less important than the malfeasance he exposed.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 04:55 AM (WW8xK)

276

"Should be interesting times"

 

Interesting times call for a holtered pistol, a couple spare mags, and your favorite flavor of rifle tucked behind the truck seat.

Posted by: Jaws at June 13, 2013 04:55 AM (4I3Uo)

277 That matters more than barn doors and horses Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 08:53 AM (aid2 Um, you need to decode that. I didn't understand a word of it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 13, 2013 04:55 AM (XIxXP)

278 272 Marybeth, All the King had to say was "trust us" and maybe add in..."That Ben Franklin Guy is a horndog who speaks to Fwance and Spain..." We+e unworthy of our liberty

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 04:56 AM (aid28)

279

http://tinyurl.com/ mnbjswp


Remember when gay marriage advocates still pretended that they weren't interested in legalizing polygamy.


By the way, I love that this appears in Slate's feminist blog.  Because polygamous societies throughout history have been so good for women.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 13, 2013 04:57 AM (lr3d7)

280 the scoamf and every member of congress vowed to uphold the Constitution of the United States......they have broken their oaths....we are upset someone broke their oath exposing them?

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl..back home at June 13, 2013 04:58 AM (8JJ6O)

281 Both deserve the consequences of their actions.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at June 13, 2013 08:55 AM (da5Wo)

Yes. The part where Snowden is judged by a jury of his peers would cover that part.

We, the people need to do the "holding the government accountable" part.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 13, 2013 04:58 AM (WW8xK)

282 I guess the whistleblower at the State Department should have kept her mouth shut about the ambassador to Belgium looking for prostitots.

And I guess whoever blew the whistle on the IRS should have just kept his bitch mouth shut, too.

And I guess whoever blew the whistle at the EPA should have shut up, too.

And those Border Patrol agents who go public with the DHS's neglect of the border, they're traitors.

Now, let's just hope everybody who knows what really happened at Benghazi keeps their mouths shut.

After all, how can The State operate efficiently if people are constantly mouthing off about its activities?


/sarc

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 04:58 AM (QXlbZ)

283 The same information that Google, Yahoo, and every other major supporter of the Obama administration, that the NSA obtained through a vague and general search warrant, was most likely GIVEN to the 'Reelect Obama' campaign, and used in much the same way.  It allowed the Obama team to identify the conservative network and attack it.

And why wouldn't major Obama supporters hand over this information willingly?  It's in their best interest to do so.  It makes them eligible for all kinds of 'taxpayer funded opportunities' that are just not available to political opponents.

Have we only see a search warrant for Verizon because it was all that was necessary?  Were the other service providers willing participants who only thought that the information they provided to the Obama team would be used to reelect their favorite sugar-daddy?

Posted by: gastorgrab at June 13, 2013 04:58 AM (FX38i)

284 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/13/us-markets-global-idUSBRE88901C20130613 Global sell-off, dollar slumps, liberals sure to blame "austerity".

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 13, 2013 04:58 AM (X4HxX)

285 I'm excited that I'm going to the "Audit the IRS rally" on Wednesday/ I hope that we have a good turnout.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (E5Yns)

286 Dump up

Posted by: Mrs Mittens, de lurking at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (1VA3B)

287 Attacking Snowden misses the point, as always. Like Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the thing itself (its content) is less interesting than the reaction to the content and the reason for the content's emergence.

In short, a country is either a people or a law, or both. We were never a people except locally, (we destroyed that for Mammon and Safety) And so long as we returned to our law and took it seriously even though we bent it like crazy, we still remained a real entity.

Snowden is just following the logic: If America doesn't honor liberty, what is it other than a collusion of deceptions made to force compliance to a particular group of power holders? It's not a people, so there's no loyalty to blood, and it's then no longer a law since its law is ONLY made legitimate on the concept of Life, Liberty and Property (Pursuit of Happiness)

People forget the problem with the South's slavery idea was that it didn't groove with our general law; you can't say all people are equal in that they cannot be denied life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and then take over half your population and do just that. It was bound to fail eventually because of the cognitive dissonance.

Without a blood, a people, you can't survive a contradiction of law.

He just woke up from the delusion and decided to become an outlaw.

Posted by: RiverC at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (KTytI)

288 278 OSP, The dumbass Luap Nor bot version 2.0 blowing op data to China is out the barn it is also RATHER secondary to an administration that refuses to cast a wary focused eye on Radical Islam deciding it is entitled to spy on everyone but Mosques..... Pretending that the meta issue is tied into Snowden is how giggles is gonna get another pass. You can't unspill milk, you can and probably should break NSA eggs

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (aid28)

289 As to the legal and Fourth Amendment issues, we will obviously get to that. But there were other ways to litigate Snowden's concerns beside revealing to our enemies the extent of our intelligence operations. I am certainly uncomfortable, if proven true, with the scope and extent of this data gathering on Americans. If found to be true and unconstitutional the perpetrators should spend the rest of their lives in prison. But that is separate and distinct from Snowden's means of revealing this and the apparatus supporting his disclosure.

Everyone who argues like this is ignoring the oath to preserve and protect the Constitution which Snowden, as a trusted contract employee of the Federal government, had to take before he ever got a security clearance. How do you resolve a conflict between those two oaths?  Are you comfortable with people violating that first oath so they can obey their secrecy oath? If the general answer is "yes" then there is no constitution to preserve and protect with those secrets and we have become the Soviet Union.

..."if proven true"... Of course the charges are true; the feds admitted they were true when they started the search to find who leaked them. If the charges weren't true the feds wouldn't have known what the guy was talking about and would have placed him in the ring of kooks who think people from mars are tapping our brains.

 

Posted by: [/i] An Observation at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (ylhEn)

290 For the last time, I do not fucking care how long he worked there. I do not fucking care how much money he made, what his education was like, or what videos his girlfriend made. I do not fucking care if he has a mole on his neck, I do not fucking care about any of these fucking DISTRACTIONS. He has offered up his very life for his country. Hyperbole? Really? He has offered up his very life for his country? This wannabe takes a breathtaking amount of US secrets that reveal an enormous amount of cutting edge detail about our intelligence gathering capabilities, he runs off to that bastion of free speech and constitutional liberty Red China, he grandstands on the covers of international papers in order to see his name in lights and to feed his enormous ego, and he has offered up his life to his country? I think he is just as much of a narcissist as Barack Obama, he just didn't feel like putting in all the hard work and time that Barack did to get to his level of fame. He is a traitor and should be tried as one.

Posted by: David, infamous sockpuppet[/i][/u][/b][/s] at June 13, 2013 05:00 AM (jvdNh)

291 Football Williams was released from prison and went on to murder a couple of people. Currently, he is residing in Pelican Bay and won't be eligible for parole until 2047. Then again, a donk or libertarian governor could release prisoners early. It's happening right now. As to that forgiveness bullshit - it made me want to pick. Don't forgive the guy who attacked you in court and then sue the cops because the guy attacked you.

Posted by: Waldo at June 13, 2013 05:01 AM (RZwdH)

292 286 I'm excited that I'm going to the "Audit the IRS rally"
on Wednesday/ I hope that we have a good turnout.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 09:00 AM (E5Yns)

 

 

Is this only in DC? 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 13, 2013 05:01 AM (zFUKI)

293

For the last time, I do not fucking care how long he worked there. I do not fucking care how much money he made, what his education was like, or what videos his girlfriend made. I do not fucking care if he has a mole on his neck, I do not fucking care about any of these fucking DISTRACTIONS.

He has offered up his very life for his country. Hyperbole? Do you have any fucking idea what the Founders faced? Hanging by the neck until they were dead. Tell me again about hyperbole.

The majority of Americans agree with me, and it crosses all political boundries.

But you just go ahead supporting Obama's Big Brother nation.

 

BlueStateRebel at June 13, 2013 08:52 AM (7ObY1)

 

------------------

 

I see.  So you liken a lying hipster to the Framers and that means I'm supporting a Big Brother nation?

 

Since you keep applauding him for giving up "a cushy job, life in Hawaii, his family, his friends, his girlfriend" you obviously do care about how long he worked there, how much money he made, what videos his girlfriend made, etc., since you mentioned it all as a way to lionize him.

 

Say what you will, but I do know one thing...when those great fellows signed the Declaration of Independence, they didn't run to fucking China immediately afterward.

Posted by: @JohnTant at June 13, 2013 05:01 AM (tVWQB)

294 In other news, since Snowden is a waste of  time...

The Arizona House passed the Medicaid expansion bill.

Posted by: Deanna at June 13, 2013 05:01 AM (KL8DP)

295 The harm he has done will be intangible and debatable right up to the point where some bad guy that would have been stopped, isn't stopped because said bad guy learned about something not to do regarding his communications. The snot should have gone to see a judge or a district attorney or a senator or a congressman and made his whine, not to some un-cleared newsman. There are mechanisms for whistle-blowing, and there are mechanisms for treachery and self-aggrandizement. He chose the latter. Bad choice for him, bad choice for us.

Posted by: and irresolute at June 13, 2013 05:02 AM (DBH1h)

296 282 CBD, Quite...I fear that ship has sailed.... I warily tolerated the foreign targeted NSA antics under Bush, this is if anything worse and Chicago Jesus is gonna get a pass because "black" "democrat"

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:03 AM (aid28)

297 @nevergiveup "Yeah great idea, let every freaken individual in the Military and the Intel Community decide ON THEIR OWN when to violated any and all secrecy oaths and laws. Yeah that will work out great." We disagree on this, and I'd like to better understand your position. Please elaborate. What level of extralegal official activity /should/ trigger your oath? Does this situation not go to the root of the "illegal orders" doctrine? At the decision point it's always here. It's always now. And there's only you. You have to decide. Here. Now. Frankly, I pray that many, many good men and women lay awake in a cold sweat, considering their oath, their honor, their future. And that of the Republic, if any.

Posted by: phunctor at June 13, 2013 05:04 AM (ifs2t)

298 So, all the people attacking Snowden... are you saying you wish you *didn't* know what the NSA was up to vis-a-vis massive data collection on hundreds of millions of innocent Americans?

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 05:06 AM (QXlbZ)

299 284 GastorGrab, Indeed... Have said here for years we need to "reverse engineer the mule web"... Guess what the people that misused the IRS for partisan purposes have the entire nations metadata..... Yeah I give two fucks about Snowden... "Nope"

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:07 AM (aid28)

300 And to elaborate... at what level of illegality does the blame shift to the issuer of the illegal orders?

Posted by: phunctor at June 13, 2013 05:07 AM (ifs2t)

301 299 Gregory of Yardale, No I think they wish the guy were a 22 year vet of No Such Agency who followed the Horrywood script.... Can I have a mulligan on Atergate finally since it was launched by a butthurt FBI hack who "unfairly got passed over?"

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:10 AM (aid28)

302 The Arizona House passed the Medicaid expansion bill.

Posted by: Deanna at June 13, 2013 09:01 AM (KL8DP)



Just like Ohio and Florida did; in all cases with 'conservative" governors who can't seem to understand that expanding the state's reach is *not* a good thing to do.  They're about as "conservative" as that glorified bean counter Voinovich was.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 13, 2013 05:10 AM (2wg/Q)

303 303 Cpt Hate, Yup let it burn, dry out the kindling.... My parting gift to Ohio is gonna be straight ticket D voting.... If the OH Gop refuses to prosecute cheating at the polls if the GOP Governor wants to govern like a mule I'll help Ohio get their donk on

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:14 AM (aid28)

304 I feel like the Snowden attackers are doing the Obama straw man thing. "Some say our country should have no secrets and every activity should be out in the open regardless of consequences."

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 05:16 AM (QXlbZ)

305 Thankfully there is the FISA court to provide checks and balances. That they supposedly approved 100% of requests proves that the Regime is on the up and up (highly unlikely). Or that the FISA court is compromised in some way. Bush's people supposedly lied at least 75 times to FISA, IIRC. Does anyone think Obama would be more honest?

Posted by: Baldy at June 13, 2013 05:18 AM (tyDFN)

306 Not just like Florida did, FWIW... On Friday, the legislature concluded without passing a budget that includes funding for expanding Medicaid. That means Florida wonÂ’t expand Medicaid in 2014 unless lawmakers convene a special session sometime later this year. Quickest best confirmatory link's from ThinkProgress, and I ain't linking that shit.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 05:19 AM (Vgn84)

307 I think there is an implied contract here. One side vows to protect the state's secrets; and the state vows not to violate the law or the Constitution. When the State fails to uphold its part of the deal, the contract is broken.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 05:19 AM (QXlbZ)

308 Just a note here, folks-Because people think that Snowden may not be a hero and that there are a lot of unanswered questions does not mean that one supports government overreach (I think everybody here agrees that what the NRA was definitely that, as well as absolutely wrong) or endorses a police state, or wants to invite Obama and the NSA over for some BBQ and beer. Just realize that people can disagree on certain things and still be on the same "team". Please stop sniping at each other on this. It makes the statists happy!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:19 AM (E5Yns)

309 Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 09:06 AM (QXlbZ) Nope; I don't think anybody is saying that.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:21 AM (E5Yns)

310

You know what would be helpful right now?

 

Considering all the scandals and other things plaguing the Obama administration, it would be great if social conservatives made a big push against abortion and started a discussion about the definition of rape.

 

Just so we have something else to talk about.

Posted by: jwest at June 13, 2013 05:21 AM (u2a4R)

311 309 Fenlon Spoke, Gabe is right where he usually is sating that Ogabe's "mistakes" are legal

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:23 AM (aid28)

312 Sweet, when the going gets tough, the tough guys encourage intra-conservative warfare. Must have been painful holding that one in for 310 whole comments.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 05:24 AM (Vgn84)

313 "Must have been painful holding that one in for 310 whole comments." Not really; I was having breakfast. Have a good day.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:27 AM (E5Yns)

314 311 jwest, Good morning Fuck you Mr. "Nobody cares about these scandals and my wife wants your guns"

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:27 AM (aid28)

315 Whoever is shocked that your internet activity including Facebook, Gmail, site visits, purchases, etc. is being tracked please raise your hand...

OK, everyone with their hands up go drown yourselves.

There are marketing and metadata firms fully devoted to building a profile on you based on all that information- which is publicly available.

Every wonder why you get these targeted emails for products you would probably buy? How about messages from social network sites to connect with someone where you stop and think WTF- how did they make that connection?

It's already being legally done and yo thought the NSA would just...skip that?

LMFAO

Posted by: Marcus at June 13, 2013 05:28 AM (GGCsk)

316 314 Not really; I was having breakfast. LOL - you held yours in for 309 comments, as yours was the 310th. Carry on.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 05:29 AM (Vgn84)

317 306 Baldy, Hey "trust us" they rejected 2....ever...... Wanna bet they were Ayers types or Islamic Radicals?

Posted by: Esteban 10077 at June 13, 2013 05:31 AM (aid28)

318 Nope; I didn't read most of the comments because I was having breakfast. Carry on. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:32 AM (E5Yns)

319
Nope; I don't think anybody is saying that.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 09:21 AM (E5Yns)


NGU is...
"Let every freaken individual in the Military and the Intel Community decide ON THEIR OWN when to violated any and all secrecy oaths and laws. Yeah that will work out great."

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 05:33 AM (QXlbZ)

320 >>>Yeah... um... about that "take an oath, keep an oath" thing, does that apply when you uncover information that the Government is doing something massively illegal or unethical?<<<

There are procedures for investigating unethical behavior.  If you choose not to follow those procedures, resign.

Posted by: Fritz at June 13, 2013 05:34 AM (UzPAd)

321

'Sup Horde,

I'll be in an our today as I'm trying to clean my deck in anticipation of staining it this weekend (if it ever stops raining here.)

Posted by: tsrblke at June 13, 2013 05:37 AM (GaqMa)

322 The snot should have gone to see a judge or a district attorney or a senator or a congressman and made his whine, not to some un-cleared newsman. There are mechanisms for whistle-blowing, and there are mechanisms for treachery and self-aggrandizement. He chose the latter. Bad choice for him, bad choice for us.

The legal whistle-blowing mechanism is to report violations to law enforcement personnel only. Not judges, district attorneys, senators, or a congressman - all of whom would be illegal to contact.

That legal method is correct and suffices for cases of normal import -  a supervisor orders you and others to steal government property for him.

However in this case because the entire chain of command - up to and including the POTUS was part of the illegal conspiracy - there are no legal whistle-blowing paths. A whistle not heard by the public is a whistle not blown.

The argument about whether such a public whistle-blower is a traitor or a patriot will be determined by whether or not the Constitution means anything.

If it does and the people involved in the conspiracy to violate it are convicted and sentenced a public whistle-blower can be a patriot.

If the Constitution means nothing there is no country against whom treason has been committed - since the Constitution is the sole authorizing document for the existence of this country. Either way it is difficult to see a Public whistle-blower falling in the 'traitor' category.

Sorry your State Uber Alles argument is one Stalin might have approved - but as for me, not so much.


Posted by: [/i] An Observation at June 13, 2013 05:37 AM (ylhEn)

323 321 There are procedures for investigating unethical behavior. If you choose not to follow those procedures, resign. Yeah, one can certainly stop cashing the checks if one feels *that* strongly about it.

Posted by: [/i][/b]akula_51 at June 13, 2013 05:39 AM (Vgn84)

324 No doubt the NSA knows a lot about me if they want to but I happily don't do Facebook and have never regretted it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 13, 2013 05:40 AM (E5Yns)

325 There are plenty of ways the GOP can use Snowden's revelations against the Democrats. For example, a Tepid-Air comment (via Instapundit: The real effect of the NSA stories is to cement a narrative about Obama that will likely become part of his legacy: the liberal senator and constitutional law professor who, like the pigs in “Animal Farm,” metamorphosed into what he had so notoriously opposed. Guantanamo remains open. Drones still rain down on Pakistan, Yemen, and anywhere else the president sees fit. Leaks are prosecuted vigorously and reporters are investigated to uncover their sources. And now, the president is affirming the surveillance practices he once mused could be unconstitutional. In light of these actions alone, it seems that Barack Obama has learned that George W. Bush got a lot of things right. The GOP has to come out very loudly, reminding the public that when Obama ran in 2008 he said "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." There's plenty of hypocrisy here to point out and mock -- a very effective weapon if the GOP had the gumption to use it. Another effective strategy for the GOP to remind Americans about the IRS abuses and then ask "do you really trust this administration to only use the massive amounts of data they've collected to only to fight terrorists? According to James Taranto, the NSA revelations have the far left so pissed they're red-baiting. Any sane political party is gonna take advantage of that kind of internecine warfare by its opposition. Fuck it if Snowden's background is a bit shaky. So were the backgrounds of Gary Sick (of Poppy Bush and his fictitious SR-71 trip) and James Hatfield's (who "exposed" W Bush's "cocaine use"). Regardless of Snowden's veracity, as long as the fact remains that Obama expanded the surveillance program started by Bush, the very program he earlier excoriated, we have powerful political fodder that can be used very effectively against Obama. If, that is, the GOP had the brains and balls to act as ruthlessly as Democrats.

Posted by: Ed Anger at June 13, 2013 05:41 AM (tOkJB)

326 There are procedures for investigating unethical behavior. If you choose not to follow those procedures, resign.

And what do you do when the people committing the crimes are in charge of the people investigating the crimes?

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 13, 2013 05:42 AM (QXlbZ)

327 There are procedures for investigating unethical behavior. If you choose not to follow those procedures, resign.

By resigning you are violating your over-ridding fundamental oath to Preserve and Protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic - which federal contract employees have to take as part of the "Trusted employee of the Federal Government" program.

The legal procedures assume that at some point in the chain of command the corruption stops - when the entire chain is corrupt those legal procedures fail and an extra-legal procedure is the only one available.

 

Posted by: [/i] An Observation at June 13, 2013 05:59 AM (ylhEn)

328 Who has more credibility? An administration and government so beset with scandals that no one can really keep track of them? ...or... An American citizen, whom the administration and the MSM are trying to discredit with every means at their disposal? You Morons keep asking the wrong questions. (and you keep believing what the MSM tells you) It's an on/off, yes/no, ones or zeros type of thing. Either the government is corrupt and out of control (which the evidence supports) or Snowden is a lying liar. Either the government has abandoned The Constitution (and Snowden's revelations, among others, has made that plain for all to see) ...or Snowden is a lying traitor to the government - a government which has abandoned the Constitution. So, do you support an acknowledged and quite open government tyranny, or do you support an American citizen who has made that tyranny plain for all to see? From your own words, you have chosen to support government tyranny.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at June 13, 2013 06:12 AM (klGLB)

329 Sooooo any idea why PRISM didn't catch Snowden?

Posted by: occam at June 13, 2013 08:44 AM (XrIHk)

-------------

It's not about catching Snowden (or the bombers of Boston) before he does the deed, it's about *catching up to* the guy(s) what done the deed and *their associates*, after the fact.


Think back to Sept12th, 2001. We knew who they were the same day(!), within hours, and within days the feds detained or interviewed everyone associated with them. There was a reported comment said to be from some holy warrior who said (more or less) we had more attacks planned but didn't think you could react so quickly.


Posted by: Skandia Recluse at June 13, 2013 06:27 AM (lKm28)

330

A few years down the line when someone in a democrat administration orders a mid-level employee to order the automatic IRS audits of all taxpayers who are known to own guns, I sure hope it is Snowden that is the mid-level employee, at least I know that he won't follow the illegal orders given to him.

 

Oh wait, this just in from the establishment...we must prosecute and hang him and give everyone in the administration a pass on their crimes.

Posted by: doug at June 13, 2013 06:48 AM (uJ8q7)

331 Hey guys! I got tied up but I'm on my way and I'll be there soon. Never early but always on time, right? No worries, though; I hear my crew has already started to arrive. And don't wait up--I'll let myself in. Keep your heads up, too--235+ years is nothing to sneeze at!

Posted by: Judgment at June 13, 2013 07:25 AM (t0N5a)

332 I'm a bit unconvinced Gabe. Yes, those who "have the primacy to know" dismiss Snowden's claims. They also claim only 40 people had the documents Snowden turned over to Greenwald, and Snowden wasn't one of them... so he can't have had the documents he had. Clearly he had them, as he showed that he had them... so the people who would know; didn't know and are wrong. I can prove they're wrong; because Snowden had a document they claim he can't have... we can't prove them right without showing everything... i.e. giving Snowden back his job so he can prove what he claims. Yes it's entirely possible the rest of Snowden's claims are wrong; but trusting those "in the know" who have already been proven wrong seems questionable... why would I do that?

Posted by: gekkobear at June 13, 2013 08:42 AM (nYHRn)

333 Ok...maybe this is just me, but can you show me which law, specifically, that allows the NSA to collect on US citizens on US soil? I mean, the last I checked, it was totally illegal. The FBI can do it, but not NSA. Just askin'.

Posted by: Bets at June 13, 2013 02:49 PM (tDvvM)

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