October 19, 2013

"War on women", the real one
— Purple Avenger

Pretty shocking stuff

El Salvador has one of the toughest anti-abortion laws in the world. A side-effect is that women who suffer miscarriages are sometimes suspected of inducing an abortion - and can even be jailed for murder.
Last year when Maria Teresa Rivera suffered a miscarriage, she was sentenced to 40 years in jail for aggravated murder.
Quintanilla was found guilty and sentenced to 30 years in jail..."The medical reports couldn't explain why the baby died, but the prosecutor made me out to be a criminal who could have saved my baby even though I had passed out in pain," she says.
Suicide was the most common cause of death in 2011 among 10-to-19-year-old girls, half of whom were pregnant, according to Health Ministry figures.
El Salvador is one of five countries with a total ban on abortion, along with Nicaragua, Chile, Honduras and Dominican Republic. Since 1998, the law has allowed no exceptions - even if a woman is raped, her life is at risk or the foetus is severely deformed.
So, when you're giving amnesty and what not, how do you sort the kooky proponents of jailing women for 40 years who had a miscarriage from those who aren't so extreme?

My mom miscarried 3 or 4 times before my bro and I managed to make it out alive, then miscarried again a few years later before our parents gave up trying, so this is a question of particular interest to me.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at 06:34 AM | Comments (268)
Post contains 251 words, total size 2 kb.

1 The world is a fucked up place.

Posted by: toby928© blurts at October 19, 2013 06:38 AM (QupBk)

2 True

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 06:39 AM (aDwsi)

3 A nest of lawyers

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 06:39 AM (aDwsi)

4 Drudge has a link to a horrific story about Syrian snipers targeting pregnant women in the war zone. If you go to the link, there's an X-ray pic of what looks like a baby with a bullet lodged in its brain. Upon closer examination, I have to say this pic is clearly a fake. Don't be shocked by the pic. It looks staged to hell and back.

Posted by: EC at October 19, 2013 06:41 AM (doBIb)

5
cf.  This: 

https://tinyurl.com/pu7prqo

Posted by: GSP at October 19, 2013 06:41 AM (YBusZ)

6 saying that these abortionists "provide health care services to women" is like saying timothy mcveigh "provided building demolition services in oklahoma city"

Posted by: sound awake at October 19, 2013 06:42 AM (pk/NG)

7 I don't think the Democrats have any idea of the nature of what they're so eager to import is.  "Hispanic" is not, and never has been, the homogenous monolithic thing they think it is.

Republicans make the same mistake too.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 06:43 AM (l5zzX)

8 Watch Animal Cops Houston and savor the wonders of cockfighting that these same folks call sport. That's much more of a legitimate problem for the US than them importing archaic abortion laws.

Posted by: Y-not, evil hobbit at October 19, 2013 06:46 AM (5H6zj)

9 7.  Amen to that.  The hatred and outright racism within the Hispanic world is quite shocking.  Many Mexicans and Cubanos have little use for each other and a lot of that enmity is racial.



Posted by: Gaspart at October 19, 2013 06:48 AM (YBusZ)

10 Upon closer examination, I have to say this pic is clearly a fake. Don't be shocked by the pic. It looks staged to hell and back.

100% fake.  A rifle bullet like that should have make a hydrostatic shock wave that would have pulped the kid's skull.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 06:48 AM (l5zzX)

11 do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked a man reaps what he sows they sow the wind AND REAP THE WHIRLWIND

Posted by: sound awake at October 19, 2013 06:50 AM (pk/NG)

12 So, when you're giving amnesty and what not, how do you sort the kooky proponents of jailing women for 40 years who had a miscarriage from those who aren't so extreme? --- Let John McCain sort them out.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 06:51 AM (PjgvN)

13 Upon closer examination, I have to say this pic is clearly a fake. Don't be shocked by the pic. It looks staged to hell and back. *mumbles* My friends, you having nothing to fear from entering into war with anyone, anytime, for any reason whatsoever. Watch me tomorrow on the Sunday morning news programs while I display my civility toward that wacko bird Ted Cruz.

Posted by: John McCain on last flickering brain cell [/i] at October 19, 2013 06:52 AM (U2UQk)

14 Many Mexicans and Cubanos have little use for each other and a lot of that enmity is racial.

The "pecking order" as I've seen it applied out in the street goes like this:

Cuban > Mexican > Central American
Lighter > Darker
Spanish lineage > native

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 06:54 AM (l5zzX)

15 I have never understood why feminist groups in the US do not take up the cause of women being treated like chattle in other cultures. Girls being denied education, raped for showing their ankles,sold to old men to pay a debt, murdered for daring to kiss in public, being jailed in their homes unable to travel or drive a car. Half of the brain power of entire societies being reduced to the life of a 7th century peon. Yet these groups that are consumed with fighting for the right to kill babies as they are being born, enforcing pc rules that don;t allow a coworker to compliment a woman, or claiming a phoney war on women to help their chosen party prevail at all costs pay no attention to the true atrocities happening all over the world.

Posted by: Sharon at October 19, 2013 06:55 AM (DtEq4)

16 do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked a man reaps what he sows God will not be mocked. This is not one nation under God. It never was. Freemasons wrote the Constitution.

Posted by: Senate Stenographer [/i] at October 19, 2013 06:56 AM (U2UQk)

17 Re story at #5. Had not heard that.

Posted by: scottst at October 19, 2013 06:56 AM (EMr2t)

18 Saying someone is 'Hispanic' because they come from south of the Mexico/Texas border is the same as saying someone is Russian because they come from east of Poland. The libtards/progs/socialists all are of the same mindset when it comes to importing 'refugee's, they think they will all vote D because their welcoming benefactor's are running the goverment and are giving out welfare goodies. Someone might want to point out that the Somali's in MN and the Arab's in Dearbornistan are patiently waiting for critical mass.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming taxational singularity at October 19, 2013 06:57 AM (IanLz)

19 Watch Animal Cops Houston and savor the wonders of cockfighting that these same folks call sport.  That's much more of a legitimate problem for the US than them importing archaic abortion laws. Posted by: Y-not, evil hobbit at October 19, 2013 10:46 AM

So far as I recall, the Bible made no mention of cockfighting. The problem in the heavily Catholic "Hispanic" countries, IMO, comes when men -- priests and government-types alike -- force their knee-jerk, overly rigid interpretations of the Bible on everyone else as "law."

The effects can be as bad as reliance on Sharia law, as interpreted by a bunch of mad mullahs.

So we seem to have a choice: embrace the screwed-up beliefs of the Muzzies, as Choom Boy intends for us to do, or open the borders and bring in people who will insist on a no-exceptions, no-mercy attitude like the one that governed in the countries they left.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 06:57 AM (kaGpp)

20
The BBC.  When one is need of reporting that is sure to be free from any sub rosa political agenda, the Beeb is where to go. </sarcasm off>

Assuming the women of El Salvador miscarry at rates no less than women elsewhere, should not the jails in El Salvador be crammed to overflowing?

Posted by: Dupester at October 19, 2013 06:58 AM (YBusZ)

21 >>cf. This: https://tinyurl.com/pu7prqo

My hubby was the result of a freshman's fling and given up for adoption, joining a large family. He tracked down his birth mom in his 30's and it's been so great. If there's one thing that's clear, it's that what was understandably shameful, terrible thing at the time (unwed pregnancy) was not such a big deal after all when compared to the joy she provided to so many of us (and now her) by having him. People underestimate what they can handle, life-crisis wise. We manage to deal with so many of life's lovely curve balls, so why not an unplanned pregnancy?

Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 06:58 AM (JRmiD)

22 I have never understood why feminist groups in the US do not take up the cause...

Because their whole cause is fundamentally a lie.  It has nothing to do with women and everything to do with political power and alliances.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 06:59 AM (l5zzX)

23 Wow, way to bury the lede with that story. The woman in question for this "shocking" article was full term and yet claimed to have no knowledge that she was pregnant. I find that very hard to believe. That's quite different than someone coming in to the ER with a miscarriage. I've had 3, and honestly it wouldn't be at all difficult to do a blood test for Methotrexate. I'd certainly like to see much more information on the women profiled than is presented in an article clearly designed to try to overturn abortion laws. While I favor jailing doctors, not women, to call this a "war on women" simply plays into the hands of those who support abortion until the latest dates.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:00 AM (ELdpj)

24 should not the jails in El Salvador be crammed to overflowing?

I guess you missed the public vs private part, eh?

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:00 AM (l5zzX)

25 17.  Of course not.  Since it rather undermines a core abortion debate gambit used by liberals.

Posted by: GSP at October 19, 2013 07:00 AM (YBusZ)

26 "Morena Herrera from Citizens' Association for the Decriminalization of Abortion" Completely nonbiased source, I'm sure.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:02 AM (ELdpj)

27 We manage to deal with so many of life's lovely curve balls, so why not an unplanned pregnancy?
Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 10:58 AM

The women in Purp's piece weren't necessarily "dealing with an unplanned pregnancy" in the wrong way (i.e. abortion). For whatever reason, they had miscarriages, which can happen even with planned pregnancies. They were not teen moms who carried dead babies around in their purses.

The Bible admonishes us to "judge not..." (at least not without facts), which is a lessen those goons in El Salvador seem not to have learned.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 07:02 AM (kaGpp)

28 I find that very hard to believe.

Happens all the time with overweight women.  You periodically see stories here about a woman who goes to the emergency room with "abdominal pains", and drops a baby.

Some people just aren't terribly aware or smart.  These are all poor women with little education. 

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:04 AM (l5zzX)

29 20 The DR is on the list. No hookers ever get preggers via Secret Service or Congressmen there.

Posted by: scottst at October 19, 2013 07:04 AM (EMr2t)

30 The Bible admonishes us to "judge not..." (at least not without facts), which is a lessen those goons in El Salvador seem not to have learned.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 11:02 AM (kaGpp)



Pretty sure it also says something about not murdering, particularly giving over one's children to Moloch, and then there's that 10 commandment thingy.

Posted by: tcn at October 19, 2013 07:04 AM (fwcEs)

31 Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 11:02 AM (kaGpp)

I was referring to a link in comments to s story about a homecoming queen who is the product of a sexual assault. Her birth mom chose to have her and put her up for adoption rather than abort.

Not passing judgment on the women who miscarried, though Lauren makes some interesting observations about potentially biased reporting.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 07:05 AM (JRmiD)

32 My point us that to cast these countries' abortion laws as a concern for the US in the context of immigration is a hyperbole. The pro-abortion movt has control in this country for the foreseeable future. We are at greater risk of adopting polygamy and child brides than we are of adopting these abortion laws. And we are already fighting the 'cultural' problems if drunk driving and blood sports from these immigrants.

Posted by: Y-not, evil hobbit at October 19, 2013 07:06 AM (5H6zj)

33 Double-check the truthiness of such stories. The NYT once reported on a woman charged with murder in some Latin country for what the NYT called "abortion" in month n (forgot the month). She had actually delivered the baby full term and then killed it. She committed infanticide (i.e., murder), pure and simple. And the NYT mis-reported, pure and simple. Imagine that.

Posted by: Randall Hoven at October 19, 2013 07:07 AM (YOq1v)

34 Pretty sure it also says something about not murdering, particularly giving over one's children to Moloch, and then there's that 10 commandment thingy.
Posted by: tcn at October 19, 2013 11:04 AM

If you equate a miscarriage with committing murder, knock yourself out.

I make a big distinction between a miscarriage -- especially in a country where nutrition, health education and medical care are somewhat less than optimal for many people -- and abortion.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 07:09 AM (kaGpp)

35 My point us that to cast these countries' abortion laws as a concern for the US in the context of immigration is a hyperbole.

Because everyone who comes here embraces our laws fully, right?

Cock fighting, honor killings, indentured servitude...none of that shit happens.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:10 AM (l5zzX)

36 ". These are all poor women with little education. " No, I'm sorry. I've been pregnant 7 times. There is no way in hell that any of the "I didn't know I was pregnant!" types actually didn't know they were pregnant. They may have been in denial of their pregnancy, but that is very different than actually *not knowing*. But woman walks into the hospital at full term and claims that she had no idea she was pregnant? Yeah, that's suspicious. Also left out? Her partner claimed that she intentionally killed the baby. Now they say that he's abusive and that his testimony isn't valid, but clearly this is more complex then "woman goes into the hospital for a miscarriage, gets arrested" which is how you presented it. Considering that's what we can gather from an article specifically designed to overturn abortion laws, I'd definitely like to see the rest of the story.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:10 AM (ELdpj)

37 Frankly, I think it's odd to hold up countries that outlaw abortion as being backward.  It's not the fact that they outlaw it, it's the fact that people are often cruel and stupid. 

Some of us happen to think that killing babies is wrong, and the way you present it here, I have no reason to change my  thinking.  I have no idea whether  these women who "miscarried" and are being given prison sentences did NOT  willfully  abort their babies, and neither do you. 

Posted by: BurtTC at October 19, 2013 07:10 AM (BeSEI)

38 Miscarriage is to abortion as Struck by lightening is to a .45 to the cranium.


Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 19, 2013 07:12 AM (kA9q2)

39 Those     women     aren't      pregnant       pregnant.

Posted by: Whoopi Goldberg at October 19, 2013 07:12 AM (/1ATA)

40 Two last pts befire I dash (too hard to comment on the phone) 1) A+!to Lauren for using a critical eye on this story 2) I don't see hiw it's relevant to drag the Bible into this. I thought the pt of this post was to point out concerns about a flood of immigrants, but perhaps that wasnt the purpose.

Posted by: Y-not, evil hobbit at October 19, 2013 07:12 AM (5H6zj)

41 Double-check the truthiness of such stories.

You're disputing the part about the allegations being made by the hospital personnel where the miscarriages happened?

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:12 AM (l5zzX)

42 Ok clearly the point is to rail against bitter clingers who oppose abortion. Got it.

Posted by: Y-not, evil hobbit at October 19, 2013 07:14 AM (5H6zj)

43 There is no way in hell that any of the "I didn't know I was pregnant!" types actually didn't know they were pregnant.

Some people really are that clueless, particularly if its a first and they have no idea what's involved.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:15 AM (l5zzX)

44 24.  Guess you missed the critical thinking part, eh?

"Not a single criminal case originated from the private health sector where thousands of abortions are believed to take place annually."

"Are believed". 

Note the reporter's calculated use of the passive voice.   No explanation or supporting data are provided to support that "belief". 

However,  from the story we know that participating in an unlawful abortion is a serious crime that carries with it substantial jail time.  Notwithstanding that risk, BBC reporter, Nina Lakhani, expects her readers will gullibly infer, as you did, that "private health sector" physicians and nurses who do those thousands of illegal procedures just happened to share that fact with her, though she never exactly says that.  That's a lot of confidence for an El Salvadoran doctor to put in a British reporter.


Posted by: Dupester at October 19, 2013 07:16 AM (YBusZ)

45 7 "Hispanic" is not, and never has been, the homogenous monolithic thing they think it is. Republicans make the same mistake too. Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 10:43 AM (l5zzX) --------------------------------- When I first came to the US in the 1970's, I was just a regular (legal) immigrant. The designation "Hispanic" had not yet been invented. True, there were the Oppressed-Victim chicanos and Puerto Ricans; and there were Cubans, who were never designated as OVs. But no "Hispanics." I was no different from an immigrant from Italy or Bulgaria. Not a freak. Not "special." Ironically, I never experienced the least discrimination or hostility --- until this "Hispanic" crap was promoted.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 19, 2013 07:16 AM (dfYL9)

46 Ok clearly the point is to rail against bitter clingers who oppose abortion.

I'm going to tell you up front right now that people who put words into my mouth I didn't write are one of my ban hot buttons.

Don't go there.  STOP NOW. Please.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:18 AM (l5zzX)

47

15 I have never understood why feminist groups in the US do not take up the cause of women being treated like chattle in other cultures. Girls being denied education, raped for showing their ankles,sold to old men to pay a debt, murdered for daring to kiss in public, being jailed in their homes unable to travel or drive a car. Half of the brain power of entire societies being reduced to the life of a 7th century peon. Yet these groups that are consumed with fighting for the right to kill babies as they are being born, enforcing pc rules that don;t allow a coworker to compliment a woman, or claiming a phoney war on women to help their chosen party prevail at all costs pay no attention to the true atrocities happening all over the world.

 

----

 

Trying to change other countries is hard work.  Far easier to just keep complaining in the U.S., where it is comfortable.  Same thing goes for Unions and similar organizations.  Why doesn't the UAW or the AFL-CIO, etc, try to unionize China or India, or other countries, in order to jack up their labor cost, and mitigate the labor cost in the USA?  Because that's hard.  Better to push for protectionist measures in the USA.

Posted by: Revenant at October 19, 2013 07:18 AM (kol4S)

48 33.  You lost me.  The problem is ....?

Posted by: Peter Singer, "ethicist" at October 19, 2013 07:18 AM (YBusZ)

49 The Left is confident that 1) Third World immigrants will bring and hold onto their love of Socialism and 2) Third World immigrants either won't bring or won't hold onto their icky religious beliefs. The Left trusts the schools and media to reinforce the socialism and crush icky religiousness, I guess.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 07:19 AM (ZPrif)

50 Purp, you cant ban people just for upsetting you. Wtf, dude, chill out.

The put words in people's mouth thing happens a lot here, and to commenters who don't have the banhammer.

Really, chill.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 19, 2013 07:20 AM (IPz9m)

51 Ok, but this wasn't her first, Purp. She had a 4 year old as well. So you're telling me that a woman who's given birth is somehow completely unaware of her pregnancy for 9 months? That doesn't strike you as suspicious? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. I'm not saying that she should be arrested for murder on the basis of this, but it's clear that such a situation would raise eyebrows *anywhere*. If, in America, a woman walked into a hospital with fetal demise, claiming to be unaware of the pregnancy, with a partner who accused her of killing the baby, she would likely face legal complications as well. And this case is their prime evidence of the horror of women being arrested for miscarriage. If it were so widespread as to be a "war on women" surely they have hordes of women who've gone into the hospital with heavy bleeding only to be carted out in chains.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:20 AM (ELdpj)

52 Speaking of misanthropy, I have a case in which a step grandfather has been diddling his brand new step granddaughter. He has money so his son, the victim's stepfather, told him that if he put a big enough stack of bills in his hand, the whole thing would go away. Gramps is charged with multiple counts of SAOC and dad is charged with extortion.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 07:20 AM (PjgvN)

53 46 -

You are threatening to ban someone because you don't like how they argue with you?

This isn't your website, dude. 

Posted by: BurtTC at October 19, 2013 07:21 AM (BeSEI)

54 thousands of illegal procedures just happened to share that fact with her, though she never exactly says that.

And there's no videos on YouTube of dope dealers and such talking about their criminal activities either.

And of course no journalist has ever gone to jail to protect the identity of a source.  They all give'em up in a heartbeat.

Get real

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:23 AM (l5zzX)

55 The Left has had some success with their plans. They've imported tons of pretty anti-gay Mexicans into California and yet Cali leads the way on gay marriage. They bring in tons of Gulf oil drilling Mexicans, and yet convince them to leave the Cali coastal views unsullied for the benefit of the rich anglo and asian ruling class.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 07:24 AM (ZPrif)

56 One of the remarkable things we see when the discussion of abortion comes up is how close-minded abortion proponents tend to be, when compared to abortion opponents. 

They also tend not to like it when you point it out to them. 

Posted by: BurtTC at October 19, 2013 07:24 AM (BeSEI)

57 One of the funniest exhibitions of the leftist "Hispanic" crap I have witnessed is Obama's reflexive support of Argentina over the UK. Argentina is actually more white European than Britain is. But they are oppressed "people of color" because----Hispanic!!!! Then there was %*&%$ Reid's assertion that no Hispanic could possibly vote for the GOP. All Hispanics must naturally agree. So how come Spain and Mexico even bother with elections?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 19, 2013 07:24 AM (dfYL9)

58 47
15 I have never understood why feminist groups in the US do not take up the cause of women being treated like chattle in other cultures...

***

Cognitive dissonance.  The are incapable of processing two conflicting beliefs. 

For the left, the third world of color has historically been shat upon by European white men and therefore are presumptively noble and virtuous.

That belief of course conflicts with actions like child rape marriages and clitorectomies which the left would vehemently condemn were they being done in uncivilized places like Alabama or Arkansas.

They resolve the conflict in favor of the people of color because they are the more politically visible and therefore more palatable option.

Posted by: Karen at October 19, 2013 07:24 AM (YBusZ)

59 And there's no videos on YouTube of dope dealers and such talking about their criminal activities either.

And of course no journalist has ever gone to jail to protect the identity of a source. They all give'em up in a heartbeat.

Get real

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:23 AM (l5zzX)

Dude, what did you just threaten Y-not with a ban for? What you just did there, putting words in someone's mouth.


I think you need to step back from this topic, it's quite emotional for you.


Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 19, 2013 07:25 AM (IPz9m)

60 If it were so widespread as to be a "war on women" surely they have hordes of women who've gone into the hospital with heavy bleeding only to be carted out in chains. Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 11:20 AM

I'm not going to argue with someone who has actual experience with the subject (I'm not quite that dumb, though some will disagree) but I have read enough to have seen stories of women who at least claimed not to know they were preggers.

It has always seemed far-fetched to me, but you can't get to my advanced age without learning to be unsurprised by the stupidity of people.

Posted by: MrScribbler at October 19, 2013 07:25 AM (kaGpp)

61 Thank you, Lauren. This story smells.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at October 19, 2013 07:25 AM (2up3Q)

62 15 I have never understood why feminist groups in the US do not take up the cause of women being treated like chattle in other cultures.


Posted by: Sharon at October 19, 2013 10:55 AM

Once you understand that their goal is communism and not true feminism, it becomes crystal clear

Posted by: kbdabear at October 19, 2013 07:26 AM (aTXUx)

63 Had a colleague who didn't know she was pregnant for the first trimester. It was because she had toxic shock syndrome in college, and had been told she'd never have kids (and only menstruated 3x a year). Only went to the doctor because of what she thought was a persistent stomach flu. She had just gotten married so it was the best possible news (and she's since had a 2nd kid).

I can imagine not knowing what's going on for the first few months, but by the 3rd trimester there is just so much going on - the baby is sqirming and kicking, and your body is experiencing so much crazy stuff (and even if you're fat, that solid, protruding mass should be alarming) - I would imagine one would have to be seriously dumb or in serious denial not to notice.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 07:26 AM (JRmiD)

64 You are threatening to ban someone because you don't like how they argue with you?

Taking false positions FOR ME, which I do not hold or have advocated is not "arguing", that's straight up LYING.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:27 AM (l5zzX)

65 4 Drudge has a link to a horrific story about Syrian snipers targeting pregnant women in the war zone.

Posted by: EC at October 19, 2013 10:41 AM

You'll see Amanda Marcotte doing that when she finally goes postal

Posted by: kbdabear at October 19, 2013 07:27 AM (aTXUx)

66 Purp I posted a link on the other thread that kind of shows the different thinking in regards to people of the anglosphere vs the rest of the western hemisphere.

Won't repost the whole thing but here's the link

http://tinyurl.com/qh5wpgv

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 19, 2013 07:28 AM (MnSla)

67 Taking false positions FOR ME, which I do not hold or have advocated is not "arguing", that's straight up LYING.

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:27 AM (l5zzX)

-- We are not allowed to lie here?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at October 19, 2013 07:28 AM (R8hU8)

68 Taking false positions FOR ME, which I do not hold or have advocated is not "arguing", that's straight up LYING.

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:27 AM (l5zzX)


Again, you did it yourself in comment 54. 


Really, take a break.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 19, 2013 07:28 AM (IPz9m)

69  Impressions from New Jersey.There is certainly a pecking order in the "Hispanic" world and the one's with the most Spanish (white) are the at the top. Puerto Ricans-aside from being annoyingly chauvinistic about their nationality, hate Mexicans, are often in competition with Dominicans, and distrust South Americans.  Cubans here in New Jersey are often indistinguishable from Italian-Americans, and Peruvians here (especially the ones with plenty of European blood) always marry outsiders ( Italians, Irish, German etc.).  The common , dark skinned Mexicans from certain areas of Mexico--the ones "who do the jobs Americans won't do"-are universally looked down upon by all of the above. Yes racism is and has always been a big part of the culture, but here's the kicker--the white Hispanics who are part of the elite in those countries, can  and  usually do take full advantage of the freebies that our Affirmative Action programs offer. Your family owns a sugar plantation in Guatemala? No problem, get to the front of the line...

Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 19, 2013 07:28 AM (hzWDG)

70 Btw it's "chattel" Or perhaps u meant "cattle"?

Posted by: BlackOrchid at October 19, 2013 07:29 AM (2up3Q)

71 Look, these articles are designed to be appalling because they're written to gin up international pressure against countries who've had the audacity to stand up against the spread of legalized abortion. I'm sure that there are many, many aspects of El Savadorian life that are offensive to our first world sensibilities, but if the BEST example of this that they can come up with is Glenda Xiomara Cruz, well that tells me that this is much more about the Citizens' Association for the Decriminalization of Abortion than anything else.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:29 AM (ELdpj)

72 Mexico exported their race problem to America.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 07:29 AM (ZPrif)

73
My mom miscarried 3 or 4 times before my bro and I managed to make it out alive, then miscarried again a few years later before our parents gave up trying, so this is a question of particular interest to me.

So Purp and his bro started life as vaginal escape artists.

Interesting.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 07:30 AM (tOkJB)

74 "Morena Herrera from Citizens' Association for the Decriminalization of Abortion"

This trophy in the shape of a golden nose, for best detection of bullshit in a comment thread, goes to.... LAUREN!

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at October 19, 2013 07:30 AM (d7tB2)

75 Again, you did it yourself in comment 54.

Nope.  Language is a scalpel, not a blunt instrument.  Read it again.  Carefully.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:30 AM (l5zzX)

76 They resolve the conflict in favor of the people of color because they are the more politically visible and therefore more palatable option.
Posted by: Karen at October 19, 2013 11:24 AM

That's why the same people who fight for gay marriage are the same people who fight for the importation and special treatment of muzzies

Posted by: kbdabear at October 19, 2013 07:31 AM (aTXUx)

77 Nope. Language is a scalpel, not a blunt instrument. Read it again. Carefully.

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:30 AM (l5zzX)


Sorry, but you did. You drew equivalencies to positions that commenter did not take.

Posted by: KG[/i][/b] at October 19, 2013 07:32 AM (IPz9m)

78 The Syrian sniper article also strikes me as dubious propaganda. Every war produces a lot of that on all sides.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 07:32 AM (ZPrif)

79 55 The Left has had some success with their plans. They've imported tons of pretty anti-gay Mexicans into California and yet Cali leads the way on gay marriage. They bring in tons of Gulf oil drilling Mexicans, and yet convince them to leave the Cali coastal views unsullied for the benefit of the rich anglo and asian ruling class. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 11:24 AM (ZPrif) ---------------------------- They have indeed had success but not really through convincing chicanos to agree on those issues. They win the automatic D vote the old-fashioned way, by buying it with free sh*t. And by demonizing the GOP with the booga-booga of raaaaaacist. If chicanos were to vote on specific issues like oil-drilling or gay marriage, the Left might not like the results.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 19, 2013 07:33 AM (dfYL9)

80 Wow.

Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 07:34 AM (Vg/fl)

81 I think that the same people who push for gay marriage AND special rights for Muslims do so because they are basically setting themselves up in opposition to the real or perceived "conservative" stance on those issues.  Sarah Palin is  for it? I'm against it!

Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 19, 2013 07:35 AM (hzWDG)

82 There is no such thing as "people of color" it's a bullshit, racist term designed entirely to make white people an object of scorn, to define them based on what they lack. Lacking color, like someone who is ill, sick, or dying. Never saw a translucent white person. Pretty sure they have color. Do we have other terms for "everybody but ethnic group X"? Do we have "person of lightness" for everybody but black people? We do have the slur "round-eye", which everybody recognizes as a slur and would proudly use. "Speaking as round-eyed, person of lightness ..."

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 07:36 AM (ZPrif)

83 And here's how the author of the article describes herself on Twitter: "Freelance journalist reporting & relaxing in Mexico & Central America, every word a gold nugget. Ex-@Independent, ex-psych nurse, current Lefty & cricket fan" I'm sure that someone who proudly announces themselves as a "Lefty" would never try to push a leftist agenda.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:36 AM (ELdpj)

84 The story I was talking about was by Jack Hitt in the NYT in 2006. It was about El Salvador. The NYT initially reported it as an abortion/miscarriage in the 18th week. In fact, the baby was born full term. Read the Editor's Note on this story, if the link works.

http://nyti.ms/1i4ljXp

Posted by: Randall Hoven at October 19, 2013 07:37 AM (YOq1v)

85 64 -

Another word for it would be "inferring." 

I can understand how one could find  another person's inference to be inaccurate, but to assume they are being willfully dishonest is an inference to far on your part, I would think. 

One might even go so far as to suggest you are putting words in their mouths. 

Posted by: BurtTC at October 19, 2013 07:37 AM (BeSEI)

86 Al Pacino (as Cuban, Tony Montana, in 'Scarface') "I fuckin' hate Colombians!"

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 07:37 AM (aDwsi)

87 How come we can say "people of color" but not " colored people"?

Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 07:38 AM (Vg/fl)

88 82, the best part is that the concepts you describe were  dreamed  up  and pushed by round-eyed translucent people of non-color....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 19, 2013 07:38 AM (hzWDG)

89 Look, Purp, I do understand why this story would get to you, especially given your mother's history. I've just been active in the pro-life movement for long enough to come across these sorts of stories time and again, and they are NEVER as they seem. There's always an agenda, and that agenda is the legalization of abortion until birth.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 07:38 AM (ELdpj)

90 And of course no journalist has ever gone to jail to protect the identity of a source. They all give'em up in a heartbeat.

Get real
Posted by: Purp

****

Yeah, a female British journalist is going to risk a stint in an El Salvadoran jail to protect an El Salvadoran abortionist.  Speaking of getting real.

Posted by: Dupester at October 19, 2013 07:39 AM (YBusZ)

91 83 -

Did she SAY  she was pushing a leftist  agenda, Lauren? 

Or are you simply INFERRING? 

Posted by: BurtTC at October 19, 2013 07:39 AM (BeSEI)

92 speaking for one that often has a communication issue while typing,

arguing with a poster or /commenter  is rather normal on this type of forum, where ideas/thoughts are often presented in angst, and we usually understand /accept we are all coming at an issue from different perspectives.

Posted by: willow at October 19, 2013 07:39 AM (nqBYe)

93 Wow, I had a flashback , for a while  I thought I was back at LGF

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at October 19, 2013 07:40 AM (R8hU8)

94 Clearly Hispanic women have faulty sperm exclusion units

Posted by: Todd Akin at October 19, 2013 07:41 AM (6TB1Z)

95 You drew equivalencies to positions that commenter did not take.

Facts have no "positions", they just are.

The original commenter seemed to want to claim that the BBC reporters couldn't possibly get people performing illegal procedures to comment on them, yet this exact thing demonstrably happens ALL THE TIME. 

I simply provided counterexamples that prove the original contention to be false.

All it takes to demolish a false proposition is a single actual counterexample.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:42 AM (l5zzX)

96 69 -the white Hispanics who are part of the elite in those countries, can and usually do take full advantage of the freebies that our Affirmative Action programs offer. Your family owns a sugar plantation in Guatemala? No problem, get to the front of the line... Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 19, 2013 11:28 AM (hzWDG) --------------- Hell, King Juan Carlos is an Oppressed Victim. And with "Hispanic" morphing into "Latino," which is done to include those from Portuguese-speaking countries, Giselle Bundchen is too. I actually met Tony Pena, the first!!!Hispanic!!! mayor of Denver way back when. Imagine my surprise when I discovered he couldn't speak a word of Spanish. I really, really, really wish conservatives would drop the word "Hispanic" altogether.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 19, 2013 07:42 AM (dfYL9)

97 Now I realize the Y's remark was explicitly not directed at me, and was formed in a more general manner.  My bad.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 07:43 AM (l5zzX)

98 alrighty than,  guess i will mosey into the kitchen to find comfort food.

after first hiding the knives.


later

Posted by: willow at October 19, 2013 07:45 AM (nqBYe)

99

Wendy Davis for President (of El Salvador).

Those pink tennis shoes will show em.

Posted by: drowningpuppies at October 19, 2013 07:47 AM (012vu)

100 I now realize that my remark was explicitly directed towards Columbians, and fuck them.

Posted by: Tony Montana at October 19, 2013 07:47 AM (aDwsi)

101 Incidentally, this is a good time to remind everyone to read or re-read SCREWTAPE LETTERS. The Deceiver has never been more active and influential than now.

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 07:48 AM (wUfzt)

102 Latinos, Hispanics = oppressed victims of American racism stretching from Castillan Spain, to Portugal, to the tribes of the Andes Mountains

"Hispanic" is to be applied to anyone with a Spanish surname, Democrat politicians or celebrities with at least 1 Spanish ancestor

NOT Hispanic = Ted Cruz, George Zimmerman

Posted by: kbdabear at October 19, 2013 07:48 AM (aTXUx)

103 87.   How come we say "blue jeans" but not "jeans of blue"?

I was taught the passive voice was a signal of weak thinking and weaker writing.  "People of color" would seem to be both.

Posted by: Lesde at October 19, 2013 07:49 AM (YBusZ)

104 93 Wow, I had a flashback , for a while I thought I was back at LGF Posted by: Velvet Ambition at October 19, 2013 11:40 AM (R8hU *munches popcorn while waiting for creation vs. evolution thread*

Posted by: rickl at October 19, 2013 07:50 AM (sdi6R)

105 I think that would be waste of your time. Lewis has no idea what he is talking about.

Posted by: Wormwood at October 19, 2013 07:50 AM (aDwsi)

106 Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:10 AM (l5zzX)

This speaks to the debate over exactly who should be allowed into the country.

There was something to be said for the large quotas of Western and Northern Europeans....it tended to reinforce the society we had built over 300 years.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 07:50 AM (oJ5Fd)

107 Sophie - That old bastard had a good run at Sodom and Gomorrah, but he's really quadrupling his output in recent years.

Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 07:51 AM (Vg/fl)

108 Cheeks of tan?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 07:51 AM (aDwsi)

109 Thread of football?

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 19, 2013 07:52 AM (ZshNr)

110 97 Now I realize the Y's remark was explicitly not directed at me, and was formed in a more general manner. My bad.
Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:43 AM

Remember that with Great Power comes Great Responsibility

Posted by: Ace's Uncle Ben at October 19, 2013 07:52 AM (aTXUx)

111 That old bastard had a good run at Sodom and Gomorrah, -------------------- A mere headwind..., a bump in the road. Things are proceeding nicely. Thank you.

Posted by: Wormwood at October 19, 2013 07:52 AM (aDwsi)

112 Soothie not Sophie. Stupid Apple product.

Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 07:52 AM (Vg/fl)

113 Elbows of point?

Posted by: pep at October 19, 2013 07:53 AM (6TB1Z)

114 Purp. Not gonna lie, you managed to grab hold of two third rails that somehow coexist in the same physical space. impressive. And just enough vagueness in your writing that I can't tell what the actual argument is and/or what other arguments are being carried through with it (many/all arguments also carry with them sub arguments.) Now then, if your argument is that during the amnesty phase we can't sort out the extreme anti-aborts who came here from the more moderate, thus fundamentally altering our countries make up (oddly in a way that is decidedly anti-progressive). I think two things: 1) Yeah, jailing people who have miscarriages is a bit extreme. Frankly, if we ever get substantial pro-life legislation in this country I'd rather see it focused on the doctors moreso than the patients for a whole host of reasons. (But those are side points #2 is more important) 2) The main argument though (again IF I'm reading it right) is a bit weak. I'm not 100% the people supporting these laws will be the ones coming here. (But maybe I'm wrong, maybe they support the laws but lack economic means. ) If I'm not even in the ballpark of your argument feel free to point out where I'm off.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 07:54 AM (GaqMa)

115 87 How come we can say "people of color" but not " colored people"? Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 11:38 AM (Vg/fl) Only racists say, "Colored people, " anymore. Didn't you get the memo sometime back in the 80's?

Posted by: Benjamin Todd Jealous is the 17th President and CEO of the NAACP at October 19, 2013 07:54 AM (EJ/Tn)

116 We feared (briefly in the aftermath of WWII) that we may have lost, but ever since we co-opted the Kennedys, things have been going swimmingly.

Posted by: Wormwood at October 19, 2013 07:55 AM (aDwsi)

117 Remember that with Great Power comes Great Responsibility Posted by: Ace's Uncle Ben -------------- Uneasy lies the head that bears the Crown.

Posted by: Wormwood at October 19, 2013 07:56 AM (aDwsi)

118 And now for something more pleasant. I am referring, of course, to train wrecks. One of my earliest memories is when there was a train wreck near the town where lived. A coal train derailed in a valley spilling coal cars and coal into the river. My father and I went down and crawled all over the wreckage.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 07:57 AM (PjgvN)

119 No true Scotsman.......

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 19, 2013 07:57 AM (kA9q2)

120 I was trying to suss out why Kelly Ayotte would go out of her way not once but twice and rail against her well-meaning colleague and side with obama. The only explanation is The Deceiver has her ear.

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 07:58 AM (wUfzt)

121 7 Purp at October 19, 2013 10:43 AM (l5zzX)

Purp I grasp that but a few points.

1) the best the GOP can hope for is social conservatives, that are socialist

2) the 2d gen immigrants will be bombarded by racial grievance mongering bullshit their whole lives.

ie

the schools...we have to defang that hate they are teaching in schools.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 19, 2013 07:58 AM (9jfyN)

122 115 87 How come we can say "people of color" but not " colored people"? Posted by: Mama winger on her iPad at October 19, 2013 11:38 AM (Vg/fl) Only racists say, "Colored people, " anymore. Didn't you get the memo sometime back in the 80's? --- Because form is always more important than substance.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 07:59 AM (PjgvN)

123
I'm with Lauren on this one.

I this this is a propaganda piece, much like the bogus stories of back-ally coat hanger abortions we were fed by the press in the 1960's.

I'm sure most morons are familiar with the story, but if you're not I suggest you read up on the propaganda campaign preceding the Roe v Wade decision.

Also, consider the story's source -- the BBC.

I'm much more concerned about the genital mutilations (and other barbaric acts) performed on women by radical Muslims than the propaganda concocted for this story.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 07:59 AM (tOkJB)

124 101
Incidentally, this is a good time to remind everyone to read or re-read SCREWTAPE LETTERS.

The Deceiver has never been more active and influential than now.

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 11:48 AM (wUfzt)


One of my favorite books, Try to read it once a year.

Timeless advice.

Posted by: Dandolo at October 19, 2013 08:00 AM (0XBx+)

125 123 Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 11:59 AM (tOkJB)

Nothing to worry about there...we're importing plenty of Jihadi Jim...we'll be well acquainted with EUrabia in 5-10 years.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 19, 2013 08:00 AM (9jfyN)

126 I'd also note that just as a commentary on the article itself. It seems that a really crappy judicial system is also to blame for this whole mess. Our system is far from perfect, but I'd like to believe that it's at least better than the BBC author makes it sound. Now here is the rub though, if we suddenly import Xmillion new people (the numbers always change and I can't keep up) and start putting them in the jury pool, that is going to radically change our judicial system now doubt (at least the first line of the judicial system, hopefully the appellate system will stay reasonable, but let's face it, the appellate system is poor justice for someone wrongly convicted.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:01 AM (GaqMa)

127 70
Wrote cattle and then thought chattel was more appropriate so mistakenly added an H causing the misspelling. Cattle are animals so probably do not understand that they are "owned". Chattel are slaves and understand that their rights have been taken away and have lost control of their fate.

Posted by: Sharon at October 19, 2013 08:01 AM (DtEq4)

128 jailing people who have miscarriages is a bit extreme. --- Unlike the US's moderate position of ruining people's reputation and career for a joke they told thirty years ago.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 08:03 AM (PjgvN)

129 "The Deceiver has never been more active and influential than now. " I could do it better.

Posted by: BHO at October 19, 2013 08:03 AM (6TB1Z)

130 Speaking of inferring, our Community Association President loves to speak in flowery sentences which are full of descriptive words.  He can spend 15 minutes at a time using words which describe a duck, and nothing but a duck.

And at the end of the discussion, will blame the audience for assuming he was referring to a duck.
Because he never explicitly stated it was a duck.

Besides other types of people which I hate, there are these two types.
Motherf*ckers that lie, and lying motherf*ckers.
Those two,I really hate.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at October 19, 2013 08:03 AM (kA9q2)

131 White people really do need to flood the court system until Affirmative Action and racist hiring laws are overturned. It's insane that King Juan Carlos and Obama's kids and Beyonce's kids get Affirmative Action and some white kid who grows up in a trailer park does not. Tiger Woods kids will qualify for minority set-asides.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 08:03 AM (ZPrif)

132 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:01 PM (GaqMa)

I'm not a PhD, so I have no clue what the point of this post is.

Yes, there is savagery in upholding draconian laws that don't recognize human failings (if we actually have anywhere near the information to assume that).

But extrapolating this to an issue for US immigration selection is a bit far-fetched.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:04 AM (oJ5Fd)

133 Buddy of mine went to an elite law school. The "Affirmative Action" black slots were filled with guys like .. the son of the Nigerian defense minister. That's how they meet a lot of the quotas -- the children of the African ruling class. You know, the ones who sold the slaves to the Europeans in the first place.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 08:07 AM (ZPrif)

134 But extrapolating this to an issue for US immigration selection is a bit far-fetched. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:04 PM (oJ5Fd) That's what I was thinking. Then again, every excuse for showing amnesty isn't what it is, a free ride for criminals is also a bit far fetched. Maybe we'll have to have the battle of the Far Fetched.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 19, 2013 08:07 AM (XIxXP)

135 Eagerly awaiting the War on Elbows thread

Posted by: kbdabear at October 19, 2013 08:08 AM (aTXUx)

136 It's insane that King Juan Carlos and Obama's kids and Beyonce's kids get Affirmative Action and some white kid who grows up in a trailer park does not. Tiger Woods kids will qualify for minority set-asides. Posted by: Flatbush Joe ------------------- See: 'Frank Lautenerg'

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:10 AM (aDwsi)

137 Okay - 'Lautenberg'

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:11 AM (aDwsi)

138 *looks out window, notices that no one is out there mowing the grass*

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:12 AM (aDwsi)

139
118 And now for something more pleasant. I am referring, of course, to train wrecks. One of my earliest memories is when there was a train wreck near the town where lived. A coal train derailed in a valley spilling coal cars and coal into the river. My father and I went down and crawled all over the wreckage.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 11:57 AM (PjgvN)

If that had happened where my Father grew up during the Great Depression he would've been in the river loading his toy wagon with coal until he was chased away. Then he would've come back at night.

When I was in fifth grade a train full of marbles used to manufacture fiberglass derailed nearby. For some reason some people actually showed up with shovels and filled their car trunks with them. Every kid in school had pockets full of them. Finally, a classroom full of kids volleyed their marbles at a homework assignment written on a blackboard, shattering the blackboard. If the school caught you with fiberglass marbles after that you were in *BIG* trouble.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 08:12 AM (tOkJB)

140 Grambling's players are having a war on themselves. Team basically went on strike, refused to travel for today's game. They forfeit and have to pay Jackson State 20,000 dollars.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 19, 2013 08:12 AM (ZshNr)

141 So, while there's an on-going, global campaign on the left to force El Salvador to legalize abortion, you're just going to accept a BBC report as true in all particulars?  Come on, guys, you're vastly better than that - you know the BBC has got it at least partially wrong as the BBC is a premier member of the leftwing MSM. 

Posted by: Mark Noonan at October 19, 2013 08:12 AM (UI/5X)

142 See: 'Frank Lautenerg'

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 12:10 PM (aDwsi)

Nicely done....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:13 AM (oJ5Fd)

143 95.  Purp, you're putting words in my mouth. 

The point of my original post was that the left-leaning bias and agenda of the BBC is well known.  On a subject like the one being reported here, where the reporter openly acknowledges the political agenda being advanced, the risk of the BBC's bias infecting its reporting is especially great. (Did you even think to question how exactly it was that BBC reporter Nina Lakhani came to find the women reported in the story?)

That BBC bias makes it even more important to critically examine and question all the facts being reported in the story.

For one more example, the story reports that in eleven years there were just 129 prosecutions out "more than 200". Setting aside the reporter's use of the squishy "more than", that means that there was something less than the a 64 percent prosecution rate. 

Of those 129 prosecutions, just 49 resulted in convictions for some crime with the other 80 cases presumably resulting in acquittal.

That means there was a conviction rate of just under 38 percent.

Compare that with the 95 percent plus conviction/plea rate enjoyed by prosecutors in the U.S.

Looked at that way, the El Salvadoran prosecution of illegal abortions is a comparative paragon of justice.

Posted by: Dupester at October 19, 2013 08:13 AM (YBusZ)

144

Don't worry Purp after the Democrats and the Imperial President import the third world you won't have a voice.  You will either shut up and accept your new rulers or learn your new place in society via the re-education  internment camp.

We are aiding Muslim countries that stone women to death that were raped.  These women can at least appeal the sentence, the Muslim women get no appeal as their brains were smashed in by a rock.  Those of them that come here accept welfare, bomb us and vote Democrat.

Bringing up the nut-ball third world loons in a conversation about abortion is not an honest conversation when dealing with our situation.  People know how babies are born and the best ways not to have a baby is to avoid the practice or take precautions.   If abortion were banned people would simply have to take responsibility for their actions and keep and eye on their kids/young adults.

 

 

Posted by: Africanus at October 19, 2013 08:14 AM (tx+Jq)

145 If that had happened where my Father grew up during the Great Depression he would've been in the river loading his toy wagon with coal until he was chased away. Then he would've come back at night. --------------------- I have elderly friends who still speak of walking the tracks to pick up lumps of spilled coal. I guess under Obama, we won't have to worry about doing that.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:15 AM (aDwsi)

146

Mrs hutch & I had a few  failed pregnancies. My Paternal G-ma died when my dad was 14. On my mothers side her uncle was a priest. We picked him up at the "old priests' home" when he was 80+. He thanked us for giving up a recent "Angel" for grandma Nana to watch over.

There was not a dry eye in the car as we went down the street.

Posted by: hutch1200 at October 19, 2013 08:15 AM (57/w2)

147 There is not one scintilla of sincerity in Any idea, program, or cause perpetrated by the Left.

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 08:16 AM (wUfzt)

148 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:04 PM (oJ5Fd) Well there is a secondary argument to be made there (and I'm not sure if this is the argument Purp is making, so just throwing that out there.) That secondary argument is: When you import a group of people you also import their cultural milieu. So if El Salvador has a habit of enforcing draconian laws in really crappy ways and we import a bunch of El Salvadorians (not those fleeing the draconian laws but just a bunch of them) it stands a good possibility of changing at the very least, a local level politics. The more you import the greater the level of change (state, national.) Perhaps a different example: Here we've had a large contingent of Bosnians settle down. Bosnians like to smoke meats and build smokehouses. Now the city is quite compact (relatively, not NYC compact, but not the burbs either) and these smoke houses were illegal for a variety of reasons (Fire risk, smell, etc.) For a while they cracked down, but now the Bosnian population is at a high enough level that the smoke houses have been made legal. Now I recognize that it's a far cry to jump from "meat smoking" to "draconian abortion laws" but not an impossible jump I would suspect. (Although the chance that we'd import a critical mass of El Salvadorians is probably pretty low.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:18 AM (GaqMa)

149 How do you sort out????

Amnesty is not about helping people.  It's about getting more voters for your party.

Posted by: gastorgrab at October 19, 2013 08:18 AM (FX38i)

150 Nice. Rh incompatibility can cause repeated miscarriages and stillbirths. I doubt these poor women have access to that diagnosis, let alone the vaccine for it. But for the Rhogam shot I received during my four pregnancies I could have been like my grandmother and suffered eleven miscarriages. But for the grace of God and all that.

Posted by: Republic of Texas 2: Electric Boogaloo at October 19, 2013 08:19 AM (Gk2GE)

151 Speaking of "war on women" I just saw some lefty bitching that Texas' voter ID laws discriminate against women because it requires that you have your ID in your legal name. But...but...they stutter....what if you haven't gotten your name changed for your driver's license? Uh, you're an incompetent idiot. It's not exactly difficult.

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 08:20 AM (ELdpj)

152 and yet The Deciever has Kelly Ayotte convinced supporting Amnesty, she's doing 'good'

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 08:21 AM (wUfzt)

153 Speaking of wars on women, did we all read this?
http://is.gd/oiCJ0q

Posted by: HeatherRadish™, drinking heavily at October 19, 2013 08:21 AM (hO8IJ)

154 64 You are threatening to ban someone because you don't like how they argue with you?

Taking false positions FOR ME, which I do not hold or have advocated is not "arguing", that's straight up LYING.

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:27 AM (l5zzX)

 

How about you just stop whining about it.  Explain yourself better instead of banning someone in your eyes incorrectly interpreting what you have said.

 

I think you need a time out on banhammer priveleges honestly.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 08:21 AM (LI48c)

155 And just enough vagueness in your writing that I can't tell what the actual argument is and/or what other arguments are being carried through with it

I try to avoid taking firm position on things I have no definitive answer for. 

If I'm not arguing for something, perhaps that's intentional. 

I do believe prison sentences for actual miscarriages is very extreme.  As I stated in the OP, my mom had several.  These prison sentences are not outside the long term norms of human behaviors though.  They're outside OUR norms, but not outside a 5,000 year sample of human behaviors.

I'm also not naive enough to believe that the remedies, practices, and behaviors of current western civilization variants are necessarily "the best" just because we're more evolved than some dude thousands of years ago.  The spectrum of "what works" in long term human behaviors and mores is far broader than what is practiced in the US currently. 

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 08:22 AM (l5zzX)

156 buzzion: fuck off. the matter was resolved and here you are trying to start shit.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 19, 2013 08:23 AM (As/N8)

157 How about you just stop whining about it.

I guess you missed the apology for reading to generally, eh?

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 08:23 AM (l5zzX)

158 I do believe prison sentences for actual miscarriages is very extreme.

I don't believe there's a single person in the U.S. pro-life movement who takes that position.

Strawman, dead ahead!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™, drinking heavily at October 19, 2013 08:25 AM (hO8IJ)

159 The natives, they are restless.

Posted by: soothie at October 19, 2013 08:25 AM (wUfzt)

160 138 *looks out window, notices that no one is out there mowing the grass* Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 12:12 PM (aDwsi) That's funny; nobody is mowing my lawn either. We must be neighbors or something. It looks like I only have one cut left this year. I'm trying to decide whether to do it today or wait until the rest of the leaves finish falling. "Putting it off" is always my default position.

Posted by: rickl at October 19, 2013 08:27 AM (sdi6R)

161 157 buzzion: fuck off. the matter was resolved and here you are trying to start shit.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at October 19, 2013 12:23 PM (As/N

 

Well first off I hadn't seen that the matter was "resolved,"  because when I saw it going on I was so incredibly pissed off at the threatened abuse of power.

 

It all could have been resolved without the threat of a ban.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 08:27 AM (LI48c)

162 When you import a group of people you also import their cultural milieu.

If I'm making any argument it is that.  immigrants show up with more than just luggage, interesting new recipes, and talking funny.

If that "other stuff" is incompatible with your social mores, then there's gonna be problems.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 08:28 AM (l5zzX)

163 Lauren - In their fight against the new NC voter ID laws, which has now been joined in a suit by Holder, the noisesome coalition of usual suspects, managed to find *one* person who *might be* inconvenienced in obtaining an ID. She is the basis for the lawsuit. The reason? Here: ""Mrs. Eaton (age 92), who was born at home, has a current North Carolina driver's license, but the name on her certified birth certificate does not match the name on her driver's license or the name on her voter registration card," the lawsuit notes. "Mrs. Eaton will incur substantial time and expense to correct her identification documents to match her voter registration record in order to meet the new requirements."

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:28 AM (aDwsi)

164

"Amnesty is not about helping people. It's about getting more voters for your party."

 

Not to get off topic, but it's important for the people on our side to nail down the definitions.  We are headed for some sort of legislation on immigration, and we could waste a whole lot of time and energy if we're unclear with the terms.

 

There is a difference between granting someone permanent residency and giving them citizenship.  Although it may not matter to some of the purists, the end result of what we're going to end up with is going to make a big deal out this distinction.

 

A lot of smart conservatives are going to jump on the permanent residency train as a way around kicking in doors and deporting their next door neighbors.  Liberals will be all about citizenship. 

 

It's going to be a tough fight, but it will be impossible if our side doesn't even understand the language. 

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:29 AM (u2a4R)

165 21 >>cf. This: https://tinyurl.com/pu7prqo My hubby was the result of a freshman's fling and given up for adoption, joining a large family. He tracked down his birth mom in his 30's and it's been so great. If there's one thing that's clear, it's that what was understandably shameful, terrible thing at the time (unwed pregnancy) was not such a big deal after all when compared to the joy she provided to so many of us (and now her) by having him. People underestimate what they can handle, life-crisis wise. We manage to deal with so many of life's lovely curve balls, so why not an unplanned pregnancy? Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 10:58 AM (JRmiD) --- I'd like to introduce you to my curveball sons, Big, 19; Little, 9. And my husband, who was an accidental pregnancy, given for adoption into one of the kindest, most loving families I have ever had the pleasure to know. His biological mother hired a PI to find him and they met just a few days before our wedding. We call her Bonus Mom and it's been a mostly wonderful experience knowing her and her family as well.

Posted by: Gingy at October 19, 2013 08:29 AM (jt8G9)

166 Mike, if the name on her driver's license matches the name on her voter registration card then what's the problem?

Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 08:29 AM (ELdpj)

167 149.   Ding! Ding! Ding!  Ding!  

Truth.

Posted by: Janice at October 19, 2013 08:30 AM (YBusZ)

168 The original commenter seemed to want to claim that the BBC reporters couldn't possibly get people performing illegal procedures to comment on them, yet this exact thing demonstrably happens ALL THE TIME.

Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 11:42 AM (l5zzX)

Not to worry. It's the BBC, run by Communists. If they can't find a witness with the story they want, they will simply make it up. Make.It.Up.

I have been to Nicaragua several times. Big billboards everywhere with photos of Daniel Ortega, proclaiming him to be "Socialista, Cristiano". He added the "Cristiano" appellation after quite cynically instituting the full abortion ban to curry favor with the RC church. There are also quite a few Evangelicals in Nicaragua.

I am pro-life, but I am also opposed to a total ban on abortion, because I concede there may be circumstances where it is the least-worst option for the persons involved. I would support a total ban on third-trimester abortions, save for those incredibly rare cases in which not doing one would ensure the death of the mother.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at October 19, 2013 08:31 AM (8Fl6F)

169

Article II of the 1987 Philippine Constitution says, in part, "Section 12. The State recognizes the sanctity of family life and shall protect and strengthen the family as a basic autonomous social institution. It shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception

 

Add Philippines to the list.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at October 19, 2013 08:31 AM (DHQv9)

170 "Putting it off" is always my default position. Posted by: rickl ------------------------------- Procrastination can resolve a multitude of inconveniences. Actually, I have to get oil for the mower before I can mow. If I am going to go out, then I may as well wait a little bit, and have lunch while I am out. I could take the garbage out, but I may as well wait until I am leaving for lunch..., etc. etc.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:31 AM (aDwsi)

171 Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 12:29 PM (u2a4R)

If you think we conservatives will be allowed to define the terms, you are smoking gooood stuff!

The RINOS have already bought into liberating the "Dreamers" among us, currently forced into the shadows by harsh Draconian attempts to establish borders.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 19, 2013 08:33 AM (XdnQT)

172 Liberals will be all about citizenship.

Which many illegals care not one whit about...particularly the central Americans who have a lot of intrinsic distrust of government. 

Here in south FL the Guatemalans, Salvadorans, etc all wander around with their life savings in the pockets becuase they distrust banks, and when robbed (which is often) they won't report it to the police, because they don't trust the police.

That is a group not very keen on becoming citizens, they are interested in not getting deported though.

The Mexicans and Cubans have a somewhat different perspective and do use the police and banks.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 08:35 AM (l5zzX)

173 Posted by: Lauren at October 19, 2013 12:29 PM (ELdpj)

Think NC gives away driver's licenses as party favors, so that the DL is not much of a proof of anything.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 19, 2013 08:35 AM (XdnQT)

174 If the r's, like the senile old fool McCain, don't care that Amnesty is punishing the working poor with more competition and increasing our debt at the same time, there is no way to fight it. What happened to "jobs, jobs, jobs"?

Posted by: NeverEvermore at October 19, 2013 08:36 AM (YHMeQ)

175 Very cool, Gingy!
I know doesn't always go well when birth moms and adopted kids reconnect, so it's good to hear another success story. It's worth the awkward moments.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 19, 2013 08:36 AM (JRmiD)

176

Jwest's plan for immigration is really quite simple.

 

Do whatever Chuck Shumer wants as long as he's got his hand shoved up Rubio's ass and is using him like a ventriloquist's dummy.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 08:36 AM (LI48c)

177 I could not find the part where the BBC reporter reports any attempt to contact a defender of the current law, a government prosecutor, or anyone on the opposite side of the issue that the reporter clearly favors.

I am sure it's in there.  Can someone direct me to it?  Purp?


Posted by: Roscoe at October 19, 2013 08:36 AM (YBusZ)

178 Mike, if the name on her driver's license matches the name on her voter registration card then what's the problem? Posted by: Lauren ----------------------------- Heh. You're asking me ? Eric Holder is the guy with the answers. And, Mrs. Eaton is a black lady. Now, see..., that should not be relevant in any way..., but we all know that it is very relevant to Holder and the other players.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:37 AM (aDwsi)

179 I just got back from the market. A dude was open carrying.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 19, 2013 08:38 AM (ujMoa)

180 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:18 PM (GaqMa)

The slippery slope begins to get greased with a single bad decision.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 19, 2013 08:38 AM (XdnQT)

181 175.  That driver's licenses are given away like party favors sure is proof that government has abandoned its most elemental function -- protecting the borders.

Posted by: Joe Shea at October 19, 2013 08:39 AM (YBusZ)

182 Both the Clinton and Obama administrations have targeted NC. They have gone out of their way to make trouble here.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:40 AM (aDwsi)

183

"If you think we conservatives will be allowed to define the terms, you are smoking gooood stuff!"

 

Immigration reform could be the best thing that has happened in this country for the conservative cause since welfare reform.  All we need to do is write it and promote it so that every reasonable person will support it.

 

Right now, people pour across the borders, but in far, far greater numbers they come in legally and overstay.  Illegals can immediately access all our welfare programs, get free medical care and even higher education.  If an illegal commits a crime, we have to go through a crazy long procedure to deport them.

 

Immigration reform could change all of that.  It all depends on how the law is written.  We have the House of Representatives and that's where the law will come out of.  All we have to do is avoid the knee jerk reaction of having any who mentions  "immigration reform" be immediately primaried and declared "dead to me" by his unthinking constituents.

 

 

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:41 AM (u2a4R)

184

We should just conquer Mexico down to the Panama Canal.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 19, 2013 08:41 AM (ujMoa)

185 That driver's licenses are given away like party favors sure is proof that government has abandoned its most elemental function -- protecting the borders. Posted by: Joe Shea ------------------------------------ When there has been Democratic control of a state for most of 150 years, that is what happens. Much to the chagrin of the Dems, Republicans now have the Governorship and State House. The struggle to clean up the left-over filth is on. Naturally, the Democratic machine is squealing like a stuck pig.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:43 AM (aDwsi)

186 Immigration reform could change all of that. It all depends on how the law is written. Well duh. The problem, of course, is that it will not be written in a manner that is beneficial to our country. The chance is less than zero.

Posted by: toby928© blurts at October 19, 2013 08:44 AM (QupBk)

187 BTW, CBD, if you're still here, speaking of Immigrants and culture, my Sauerbraten turned out on the "OK" side. A few things lead me to buying a bigger bottom round than I wanted so I think I should have upped my vinegar mix (and perhaps time beyond 4.5 days of soaking) but I didn't want to screw with it to much. As a result it's quite mild, mostly beefy with only a limited wine vinegar overtones (if any).

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:45 AM (GaqMa)

188 I am sure it's in there. Can someone direct me to it? Purp?

Nope.  Nothing there.  

The piece is obviously slanted (after all it is not under a "news" heading, rather "magazine" ), but I ignored that and looked to the specific declarative points it made.

Just because something is slanted or propaganda does not mean its DEVOID of actual fact.  People make that mistake all the time and miss a lot of detail and background because of it.

You just need to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 08:45 AM (l5zzX)

189

" The problem, of course, is that it will not be written in a manner that is beneficial to our country. The chance is less than zero."

 

So, if Ted Cruz writes the immigration reform bill, you believe he's going to fuck the conservatives and do exactly what Schumer wants?

 

 

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:45 AM (u2a4R)

190 So, if Ted Cruz writes the immigration reform bill ... Is he writing the reform bill?

Posted by: toby928© blurts at October 19, 2013 08:47 AM (QupBk)

191

How about Trey Gowdy?  If he sat down to write an immigration reform bill, would he automatically turn into a liberal?

 

Is there something about writing the word "immigration" that makes them communists?

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:48 AM (u2a4R)

192 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:18 PM (GaqMa)

On the question of Sutti:

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

Posted by: Sir Charles Napier at October 19, 2013 08:49 AM (oJ5Fd)

193 How about Trey Gowdy? Is he writing the reform bill?

Posted by: toby928© blurts at October 19, 2013 08:49 AM (QupBk)

194 If Ted Cruz wrote the immigration reform bill, Chuck Schumer would end up being deported.

Posted by: Iblis at October 19, 2013 08:49 AM (jljrr)

195 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:45 PM (GaqMa)

Whose recipe did you use?

Alton Brown has done it, and I would trust his stuff for a dish such as this.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:50 AM (oJ5Fd)

196 Posted by: Sir Charles Napier at October 19, 2013 12:49 PM (oJ5Fd) Different time, not sure it's as relevant as it was back then. Post Moderism does strange things.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:51 AM (GaqMa)

197 If

Posted by: toby928© tries laconic at October 19, 2013 08:51 AM (QupBk)

198

195 How about Trey Gowdy?

Is he writing the reform bill?

 

I don't know.  Maybe  he and Ted Cruz will get together and write a joint house/senate version.

 

The point is, a bill can be written by a conservative, using conservative principles.

 

Bills aren't always liberal things.

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:52 AM (u2a4R)

199 Is there something about writing the word "immigration" that makes them communists? Posted by: jwest ----------------- No. But there is something about the word 'reform' that makes them progressives.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:52 AM (aDwsi)

200 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:45 PM (GaqMa)

Volume increases more quickly than surface area, so the ability of the meat to absorb the flavors of the marinating liquid decreases as the size increases.

liberal

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:53 AM (oJ5Fd)

201 The point is, a bill can be written by a conservative, using conservative principles. I'm sure lots of bills could be written by a conservative. In fact, I'm sure many are. The problem, of course, is those will not be the ones passed.

Posted by: toby928© tries laconic at October 19, 2013 08:53 AM (QupBk)

202 Volume increases more quickly than surface area, so the ability of the meat to absorb the flavors of the marinating liquid decreases as the size increases. liberal Posted by: CharlieBrown ------------- The cube, rather than the square.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:53 AM (aDwsi)

203 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:51 PM (GaqMa)

Would you support charging a physician with murder if let a pregnant woman die in order to protect her unborn child?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:54 AM (oJ5Fd)

204 I'm sure lots of bills could be written by a conservative. In fact, I'm sure many are. The problem, of course, is those will not be the ones passed. Posted by: toby928 ----------------- 16 (?) CR's.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 08:54 AM (aDwsi)

205

"No. But there is something about the word 'reform' that makes them progressives."

 

If you want to "reform" our current immigration policies so that illegals can't get welfare or a free college education, is that "progressive"?

 

Back when we wanted to "reform" welfare to require work, was that progressive?

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:54 AM (u2a4R)

206 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:50 PM (oJ5Fd) It was In fact AB's recipe. I didn't think the sauce would turn out, but surprisingly it did quite well and complimented the dish. However the sauce doesn't hold (and already started looking weird as it cooled off) so we dumped it rather than trying to save it. As I said, I think it might have been meat size, the recipe called for a 3.5-4lb roast, I only had a 5lb one. (Which probably required either more brine or more soak time or both.) Also Brown loves searing things all the time, I think I'll just forgo that next time (as I'm not sure it ads much in the name of flavor to something like sauerbraten.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:54 AM (GaqMa)

207 Back when we wanted to "reform" welfare to require work, was that progressive? Could that be passed today?

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 08:56 AM (QupBk)

208

"I'm sure lots of bills could be written by a conservative. In fact, I'm sure many are. The problem, of course, is those will not be the ones passed."

 

So, a conservative bill written in the House wouldn't pass the House?

 

And once a "immigration reform  bill" passes the House, do you think that the republicans and red/purple state dems in the senate would vote it down?

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:56 AM (u2a4R)

209 You know the disaster of Obamacare give Republicans the perfect excuse to go piecemeal on immigration reform. Small specifically targeted bills. They can say "We've learned from Barry's mistakes. We going to move forward, and we're not going to be rushed." Then they put in all the enforcement and streamlining for legal immigrants first. No amnesty. Stall, delay and drag it out until Barry's out of office. And here is where Marco Rubio can redeem his sorry ass. Because he can give cover to Republicans, and criticize O-Care all in one. "How can we do comprehensive immigration reform when we've failed at comprehensive healthcare reform?" There's no pressing need for immigration reform. Especially before an election. Just don't take it up.

Posted by: Iblis at October 19, 2013 08:57 AM (jljrr)

210 What's wrong with the legislation in El Salvador, as opposed to maybe the behaviour of prosecutors? If the woman is innocent of deliberately seeking an abortion, then of course she should be acquitted or not prosecuted in the first place. If she is guilty, of course she should be prosecuted and sentenced. It's like complaining that the Trayvon Martin case shows the necessity of legalising the murder of black people in the US.

Posted by: anonymous irishman at October 19, 2013 08:57 AM (DJgfL)

211 Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 12:53 PM (aDwsi)

V=

A = 4πr2

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:57 AM (oJ5Fd)

212 Gotta go.

Posted by: jwest at October 19, 2013 08:57 AM (u2a4R)

213 Well, that didn't work. The damned software doesn't recognize anything nowadays!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 08:58 AM (oJ5Fd)

214 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:54 PM (oJ5Fd) Absent much more context, I honestly don't know. What do you mean by "let" are we talking delayed treatment? Just out and out left her there? What was the woman's role in this. Lots of people do what I would consider supererogatory things to try to protect even their unborn child. (If a woman decides to delay cancer treatment to give birth and that risk ends up having a bad outcome, I'm not exactly up for charging anyone.) I do believe we need to rehabilitate the notion of "triage" in these cases (Which seems to be lost to the argument.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 08:58 AM (GaqMa)

215 So, a conservative bill written in the House wouldn't pass the House? It would not, or it would have already done so. It's not like the Republican leadership doesn't know our thinking on this. Immigration reform is a code word for amnesty. It's what the big money donors want. It simply is.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 08:59 AM (QupBk)

216 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:54 PM (GaqMa)

The difference in size isn't that significant. But the searing is important. The browning really adds to the flavor.

How about a traditional German cook book?

I'm sure there are hundreds of recipes floating around.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 09:00 AM (oJ5Fd)

217 Comprehensive is another code word for 'The country will be screwed'.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:00 AM (QupBk)

218 'Comprehensive' means log-rolling. A comprehensive anything is made up of smaller, simpler actions. How about we just do those one at a time?

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:02 AM (QupBk)

219 or is it like fractal images? No matter how much you zoom in, it just stays complicated?

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:02 AM (QupBk)

220 I put this in the wrong thread, I guess. -- UFC Heavyweight championship fight tonight. Cain Velasquez vs former champ Junior Dos Santos Dos Santos is the Brazilian striker. Velasquez is the American wrestler. Velasquez also rocks a giant, uber-racist "Brown Pride" tattoo across his entire chest. Fight is in Houston and has sold out the Toyota Center (the NBA arena). Velasquez was born in California, raised in Arizona, got a full scholarship to Arizona State in wrestling, and has become a millionaire in the UFC. He also speaks crap Spanish. He comes to the ring to mariachi music, draped in the Mexican flag. Meanwhile Dos Santos, the Brazilian, who has a much darker complexion than the kinda pasty-faced Velasquez -- comes to the ring to theme from Rocky. UFC likes to market Velasquez as their first Mexican champion. Even though he's never lived in Mexico. And speaks bad high school Spanish. But he's got a giant Brown Pride tattoo. Which is really easy to read cause he's so light-skinned. Seriously, he's paler than pretty much every Italian I've ever known.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 09:03 AM (ZPrif)

221 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 12:58 PM (GaqMa)

Triage -- good point.

For better or worse, there has to be a hierarchy. That is one of liberalism's greatest failures; that it does not recognize the inherent drive in man to define his place in the world.

It seems as though we have two positions -- total equality, and contemptible  and undeserving of anything.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 09:04 AM (oJ5Fd)

222 This is why jwest is a delusional fucking loon.  He does not live in reality.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 09:05 AM (LI48c)

223
A = 4πr2

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:57 PM (oJ5Fd)

I think you left out an important variable in that equation.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 09:06 AM (tOkJB)

224 He does not live in reality. 'If' is for children.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:06 AM (QupBk)

225 Back when we wanted to "reform" welfare to require work, was that progressive? Different context. My observation has to do with 'reform' when used with immigration, which is the topic. ----------------------- If you want to "reform" our current immigration policies so that illegals can't get welfare or a free college education, is that "progressive"? Do you think that is what the populace thinks when the word 'reform' is used? The media? The Democrats? No. Moreover, I DO reject the idea that 'reform' is necessary. The administration has simply refused to enforce existing law. Enforcement that is what is needed rather than reform. Arguing the semantics of 'reform' is just a distraction.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 09:06 AM (aDwsi)

226 How about we just do those one at a time?

If legislation is small, people might be tempted to actually read it.  Can't have that kinda shit happening...

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:07 AM (l5zzX)

227 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 01:00 PM (oJ5Fd) Eh, but the flavors were all good, the interesting thing was they didn't seem to incorporate into the meat itself. My cooking vessel may have also been a problem, I had to borrow an 8.5qt dutch oven from a friend. This meant only the bottom of the meat was actually cooking in the brine (I soaked it in something else.) I could have used my little 6 qt dutch oven, but it has silicone handles and while it says it's oven safe to 350, I really didn't want to ruin it (the roast cooks at 325 for 4 hours.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:07 AM (GaqMa)

228 If legislation is small, people might be tempted to actually read it. Can't have that kinda shit happening... We should allow only one piece of pork per bill. HR251 - A Bill to Deny Welfare to Illegal Immigrants and to Provide $400 Million Dollars for the Completion of Spur I795 In Jacksonville Florida.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:09 AM (QupBk)

229
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 12:57 PM (oJ5Fd)

Never mind -- the lack of superscripts (and a brain fog brought on by recent events) screwed me up. The radius is in there.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 19, 2013 09:10 AM (tOkJB)

230 This is why jwest is a delusional fucking loon. He does not live in reality. Posted by: buzzion ----------------- I believe that Mr. West is an informed, intelligent fellow, but he lives in a world of affluence that distorts his perspective. I suppose that those of us at lower rungs on the ladder have our own skewed perspective..., it is the perspective of those who are being more heavily trodden on by progressive policies.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 09:11 AM (aDwsi)

231 227 Moreover, I DO reject the idea that 'reform' is necessary. The administration has simply refused to enforce existing law. Enforcement that is what is needed rather than reform. Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 01:06 PM (aDwsi) Exactly. What is the point of passing new laws, regardless of who writes them, when the administration gets to decide whether or not they feel like enforcing them?

Posted by: rickl at October 19, 2013 09:11 AM (sdi6R)

232 I believe that Mr. West is an informed, intelligent fellow, but he lives in a world of affluence that distorts his perspective. Perhaps, but If doesn't belong in an argument no matter one's background.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:12 AM (QupBk)

233 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 01:04 PM (oJ5Fd) I'm trying to make sense of your last statement, but can't quite. Missing comma perhaps? In any case, back when I did my Catholic ethics work I latched on to this idea of Triage and was working it through with a friend. It's tricky though and I would argue it requires a metaphysics of sort. detached from anything you end up with a crude utilitarianism (proportialism more specifically if we're using the Tradition's terms). Tethered to a metaphysics it works at times but still requires great care to avoid falling into the proportionalistic trap. (I'm a bit of a Proportionaist by nature, having been raised on the work of McCormick, so perhaps I'm especially prone to it.) But liberalism, being a creature of postmodernity, lacks any metaphysic. So they can't even comprehend such a notion or know how to apply it. (I'd note by the way this this is not a knock against agnostics and atheists, I know lots of nominal Catholics who have sort of abandoned metaphysics and anthropology and fit this description quite well.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:12 AM (GaqMa)

234 If my grandmother had wheels she would be a buggy.

Posted by: toby928© at October 19, 2013 09:13 AM (QupBk)

235 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 01:07 PM (GaqMa)

I think you identified the problem.

325 won't hurt those handles.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 09:13 AM (oJ5Fd)

236 In my experience, neither the left or right owns the semantics of "reform".  

Both sides sell reform as "current shit don't work", "this new shit will".

Reform just means "a change".  The actual utility of that change is usually misrepresented.

The title of legislation is always a clue.  Apply newspeak and you'll get the real meaning.

ex. Affordable Care Act

Newspeak translation: will raise prices and has nothing to do with actual healthcare

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:13 AM (l5zzX)

237 If legislation is small, people might be tempted to actually read it. Can't have that kinda shit happening... Posted by: Purp --------------------- Again..., like the CR's. Every one of those should have published on the front page of all of the newspapers, so the people could see what the Dems were rejecting.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 09:13 AM (aDwsi)

238 Exactly. What is the point of passing new laws, regardless of who writes them, when the administration gets to decide whether or not they feel like enforcing them?

Posted by: rickl at October 19, 2013 01:11 PM (sdi6R)


New laws provide new loopholes, more business for lawyers, and more graft for your representatives, win-win!



This country has moved so far beyond the non-political enforcement of laws that it is unrecognizable as a Constitutional Republic.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 19, 2013 09:17 AM (XdnQT)

239 What is the point of passing new laws, regardless of who writes them, when the administration gets to decide whether or not they feel like enforcing them? --- And yet we're the anarchists.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 19, 2013 09:18 AM (PjgvN)

240 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 19, 2013 01:13 PM (oJ5Fd) Hmmm. Well then if that's the case then we'll give it a go next time. Plus it means I can soak and bake in one vessel. I have most of the ingredients to make a second batch (but also 3lbs of this batch left over.) The wife and I aren't due for a sam's trip until next month, I'll probably pick up the last of the ingredients then and try again sometime in November. (Right now I have Rye and Munster for sandwiches to finish the rest off.) The only other thing that's a bit frustrating is my carving skills aren't the best so I couldn't get very thin slices. (My parents own a meat slicer maybe I'll borrow it next time.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:19 AM (GaqMa)

241 I believe that Mr. West is an informed, intelligent fellow, but he lives in a world of affluence that distorts his perspective.

I suppose that those of us at lower rungs on the ladder have our own skewed perspective..., it is the perspective of those who are being more heavily trodden on by progressive policies.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 01:11 PM (aDwsi)

 

Some of his intelligence has included the following:

 

We should like the Senate Immigration law because Marco Rubio is the one that is the face of it and he's conservative so its a conservative bill.

 

Detroit can be fixed if you just give people $25k worth of school vouchers if they moved there.

 

The way to fix congress is to increase their salary much more than it currently is.

 

You should let old sick people just die because that's what their bodies want.

 

Having it written down that someone owes you money is just as good as actually having them pay you the money owed.

 

 

Oh yeah those are the ideas of an intellectual heavyweight.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 09:19 AM (LI48c)

242 Oh yeah those are the ideas of an intellectual heavyweight. If wishes were horses ...

Posted by: toby928© yeah, if is a bugaboo of mine at October 19, 2013 09:21 AM (QupBk)

243

And I didn't have compatibility mode on so let me repeat but formatted properly.

 

I believe that Mr. West is an informed, intelligent fellow, but he lives in a world of affluence that distorts his perspective.

I suppose that those of us at lower rungs on the ladder have our own skewed perspective..., it is the perspective of those who are being more heavily trodden on by progressive policies.Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 01:11 PM (aDwsi)

 

Some of his intelligence has included the following:

 

We should like the Senate Immigration law because Marco Rubio is the one that is the face of it and he's conservative so its a conservative bill.

 

Detroit can be fixed if you just give people $25k worth of school vouchers if they moved there.

 

The way to fix congress is to increase their salary much more than it currently is.

 

You should let old sick people just die because that's what their bodies want.

 

Having it written down that someone owes you money is just as good as actually having them pay you the money owed.

 

Oh yeah those are the ideas of an intellectual heavyweight.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 09:22 AM (LI48c)

244 Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 01:19 PM (LI48c) You know. jumping in with the horde has at least humbled me. And if I may step out of that humbleness for one second, I'm a pretty smart cookie (and I've got test scores to back that shit up.) Yet still, I've had my ass handed to me on more than one occasion here and had to seriously reconsider my tactics (my position, NEVER! ). Yet, he gets sent round and round the barrel here and still thinks he's as smart as he was the day he walked in. Color me perplexed.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:24 AM (GaqMa)

245 buzzion - 'Intelligent' does not equate to 'insightful', or even 'intellectual'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 09:24 AM (aDwsi)

246 Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 01:22 PM (LI48c) By the By, ever since getting IE11, I haven't lost a space yet & as a bonus: &.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:24 AM (GaqMa)

247 Another thing that reveals deceptive legislation along with titling is its format.

Stuff that looks like a 1,000 command EDLIN editing session changing individual words and punctuations is being intentionally opaque and deceptive.

Straight forward legislation look like "strike paragraph (3)(c) and replace with: "blah, blah, blah"

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:24 AM (l5zzX)

248 Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 01:24 PM (l5zzX) I'm not even sure I like that. The ACA for example was full of tons of "Strike section 4 paragraph 2 of 99USC1000 and replace with..." And that just made it hard to read. Real straightforward law would mean that everything is either superseded or added to and everything must be able to be read in the bill being passed without any cross referencing. (i.e. either add a section or replace whole one.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:27 AM (GaqMa)

249 Straight forward legislation look like "strike paragraph (3)(c) and replace with: "blah, blah, blah" That is so true. I would think you could make an internet driven app that could show a bill complete by filling in the blanks from the original bills. It might require that all bills be written to a certain standard, perhaps xml-ish, but that would be all to the good. An EDI for law, as it were.

Posted by: toby928© yeah, if is a bugaboo of mine at October 19, 2013 09:28 AM (QupBk)

250 BTW, I read/skimmed all of ACA years ago.  It was a lot of that 1,000 command EDLIN format stuff. 

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:28 AM (l5zzX)

251 Word for today - Emend

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 19, 2013 09:28 AM (aDwsi)

252 By the By, ever since getting IE11, I haven't lost a space yet & as a bonus: &.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 01:24 PM (GaqMa)

 

I hated the look and feel of IE 10 and went back to 9,  I haven't had the desire to look beyond it.

Posted by: buzzion at October 19, 2013 09:32 AM (LI48c)

253 Again, liberal priorities shouldn't be our priorities. its time for Congress to flex its muscle. "Oh, immigration reform is a nice idea Mr. President, but first we have to straighten out the budget, and then we have to straighten out O-Care. We have to make sure the law is implemented as written for everyone, before we can take up something as important as immigration reform." The libs are freaked that we're trying to move the debate to ground friendlier to our arguments like the budget and O-Care's failures. That's why they're trying to rush back to immigration. They're flailing for an issue to hammer us with in 2014

Posted by: Iblis at October 19, 2013 09:32 AM (jljrr)

254 I'm not even sure I like that.

Yea, even that's horrible. 

We shouldn't be surprised that a government that can't even embrace the "radical new notion" of document change bars for legislation can't produce a web site.

New shit be scary, yo!

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:32 AM (l5zzX)

255 The military embraced change bars quite a while ago...before computers even.

The legislative?  Nope, we gonna stick with them stone tablets!

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:35 AM (l5zzX)

256 Posted by: Purp at October 19, 2013 01:35 PM (l5zzX) Just to channel AtC a bit though. It's really hard to write a decent summary of a law when everything is just "empowers the Secretary to make regulations."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at October 19, 2013 09:40 AM (GaqMa)

257 Great post Purp.

Posted by: MTF at October 19, 2013 09:41 AM (Wp/g8)

258 What a dumb post. I thought the knock on Hispanics was that they were too Democratic. Orrr...maybe people should make better arguments against amnesty than politics-based ones.

Posted by: Jerec at October 19, 2013 09:50 AM (8HhF2)

259 After the collapse/reformation, we'll need to deal with that fiat regulation shit.

I propose all "regulation" be considered as defacto bills that MUST be passed explicitly by legislature and signed into actual law.  The legislature and president need to be on the hook for explicitly approving anything.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:52 AM (l5zzX)

260 120. Kelly A -- Rap back up dancer.

Posted by: gracepmc at October 19, 2013 09:56 AM (rznx3)

261 Orrr...maybe people should make better arguments against amnesty than politics-based ones.

Your concern is duly noted.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 19, 2013 09:57 AM (l5zzX)

262 55 The Left has had some success with their plans. They've imported tons of pretty anti-gay Mexicans into California and yet Cali leads the way on gay marriage. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 19, 2013 11:24 AM (ZPrif) Actually, not. In 2008, Prop 8--deeming that marriage is between one man and one woman--won overwhelmingly, with black and Mexican-descended voters putting it over the top. The ninth circus, however, overruled the voters, just like it did with Prop. 187--denial of state welfare services to illegal aliens. That last usurping of the will of CA voters was the death of CA.

Posted by: baldilocks at October 19, 2013 10:53 AM (Tnlh/)

263 Part of my husband's family came to the US in the 1920's. Having a good Slavic name, it went through several iterations before it found a settled form here in the US. Over the years, various people in the family have had to get notarized statements for jobs, etc, clarifying that they are the same person as stated on birth certificate, naturalization, etc. Somehow they made it work. I'm sure Mrs. Eaton can get this cleared up as well, even though it might be an INCONVENIENCE.

Posted by: Katja at October 19, 2013 10:57 AM (YWt3A)

264 This sounds like the divorce laws of Taiwan where both husband and wife have to agree for a divorce to happen. The law was passed because they want families to make all effort to stay together, a noble goal. The unintended consequence of course is that if you marry someone who is crazy or vindictive, they can hold the marriage hostage so you can never divorce them an move on with your life. So-cons who love the idea of using the state to further their good intentions should think hard on the potential unintended consequences.

Posted by: sexypig at October 19, 2013 01:15 PM (dZQh7)

265 So-cons who love the idea of using the state to further their good intentions should think hard on the potential unintended consequences. Of course. But hard cases make bad law, and a polity has the right to make the calls, otherwise self government is a fiction.

Posted by: toby928© Alabama Alumnus and Native Texan, now with twice the insufferability at October 19, 2013 01:56 PM (QupBk)

266 "Of course. But hard cases make bad law, and a polity has the right to make the calls, otherwise self government is a fiction." Its not a hard case. Its what any person who has experience in relationships knows. This is not some rare situation but a common one. In fact, if both parties were reasonable enough to come to an understanding they would not need assistance from the law! You don't need Nanny State to force counseling - family, church, etc. do that better anyways. The polity can do whatever it wants but it can be stupid just the same. Better to stay away.

Posted by: sexypig at October 19, 2013 02:59 PM (dZQh7)

267 I agree: abortion is the real war on women. More than 25 million unborn female children have been intentionally killed in the past 40 years in the U.S.

Makes the Shoah look like a child's play.

Posted by: Percy Gryce at October 19, 2013 06:16 PM (/JTkz)

268 Primary sources.  They are your friend.  And this lengthy BBC article links to not a one.  Failing grade.

Posted by: Sojourner at October 19, 2013 07:14 PM (NkGGv)

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