1 first

2 Spit and a wad of bubblegum?

3 and you gotta read this one: http://tinyurl.com/dx8ukq6

4 Where are the extra votes going to come from? By putting a stop to Dem voter fraud, for starters.

5 What Is Holding The GOP Coalition Together? Derision?

6

What is holding the democrats together?

 

They have their own grievance groups too. 

 

Politics will evolve - IF the media is reformed. 

7 I think a good word for the Repubs to use is "bankrupt" as in, "if you're under forty, forget about collecting from Social Security, because... Bankrupt..."

8 I can haz disvention?

9 It isn't a coalition so much as a loose conglomeration of disparate ideologies and desperate hangers-on.  Scrap it.

10 What is holding the democrats together?

Free shit and hate.

11 Obviously a big national party is never going to agree on everything, but what's the issue that gets 75-80% support?

I think we should go with venal self interest.  It seems to work for the Dems.

12

Romney did not move right on immigration.  He stayed right where he was as Governor.

 

But you are right in that immigration and gay marriage are two single issue items that may cause any coalition to dissolve.  I know that as a defender of having a single Republican party,  if they cave on these two issues I will join the people that I have been criticizing.  Heinz 57 may help the crow go down easier.

13 When I say Romney was forced on us, it's more a recognition that there's an extremely high barrier to entry in either party.  To pretend that just anybody can compete is just ludicrous; and I'm not saying that having a gazillion choices is a good thing.  But having a "none of the above" choice is terrible.


For whatever reason, Romney was never a popular candidate.  We fooled ourselves by the JEF being a miserable failure meaning that would translate into Willard being a good candidate by default.  That didn't happen.

14

If those of us opposed to amnesty don't come up with a better plan, it will happen and we'll be in even deeper trouble.

 

 

How about "NO!"?  Isn't "NO!" to amnesty a good plan?  Any tinkering or surgery to "NO!" makes it something less than "NO!", and I could not support that.

15 If you can't stand for something you'll fall for anything.  Clearly the only goal they have is to get more power or holding on to what they have.  If they espoused actual principles, any principles, they'd have a starting point for a conversation.  Instead they change position because they think it will give them more votes (and more power). 

16 A bad plan may trump no plan, but it is not better than no plan.  I would rather have no plan and make it up as we go along than have a bad plan that everyone pushes to defeat!

17 What's holding the GOP together? That's easy: a common enemy.

18 People are stupid. People vote. That's pretty much it.

19 I am ready for a new party myself. I just don't know how feasible that is.

20 I know that as a defender of having a single Republican party, if they cave on these two issues I will join the people that I have been criticizing. Heinz 57 may help the crow go down easier.

polynikes-
After a long stretch of defending him, I wrote off Boehner this weekend, not because he said he trusts O (he has to say that to sound reasonable to the LIVs) but because he said the country didn't face an imminent economic crisis.  I find that some fava beans and a nice Chianti make it easier to swallow.

21 Embedded crotch tasers triggered by anything less than 80% base approval, or SMOD.

22 Eccentrifugal force. http://preview.tinyurl.com/cn3oy9v

23 The need for Amnesty and another President Bush?

24 ...or Racism. 

25

What is holding the democrats together?

Free shit and hate.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at March 19, 2013 12:01 PM (/kI1Q)

 

 

True, but as the economy tanks and debt grows, the free shit is going away, and the hate is turning inward.  "I want M INE, so fuck you!"  Most of the dem coalition would fracture if the dem LIV realized what they are voting for. 

But the media is blocking the message and lulling us idiots to sleep.  ACE is right, we need to reform or replace the existing liberal statist friendly media. 

26 @DrewM,

People have suggested: "Boarder control first, combined with a strengthened e-verify, leading to no path to citizenship (i.e. visa's only.) but still allowing worker's permits down the road."

Why is that not an alternative plan?  What's so wrong with it that it can't hold the party together? It gives the dems what they purport they want (fairness) without opening the door to a wave of citizens.

A rational defense of this could easily sway over half the nation.  Especially if you dispel the idea that the GOP wants nighttime raids.

27

The fundamental problem isn't the Republican Party, or even the Democratic one.  The problem is that we have generated a government with almost unlimited power, and frankly, you don't want <em>anybody</em> in charge of something like that.

Listening to Republicans say they can run a powerful centralized authority better than the Democrats doesn't really change anything.

Start reducing that power.  Start decentralizing government so local and state authorities matter again.  I want to get back to where, as Pournells says, most people worried more about who the mayor was than the president.

I want to get to the point where it doesn't <em>matter</em> if an idiot is in Washington.

28 RE: Immigration My plan = E-Verify & Border Drones

29 How about "NO!"? Isn't "NO!" to amnesty a good plan? Any tinkering or surgery to "NO!" makes it something less than "NO!", and I could not support that. Unfortunately, “no” rarely works. We need “yes” to win. Reagan won against Carter on “yes”. Romney lost to Obama on “no” (though admittedly it wasn’t a very strong “no”). So the choices are (a) make it not an issue, so we don’t have to say no, or (b) find a solution which voters hear as “yes”. I’d argue that there is a “yes” in “reform for the immigrants who are following the law”.

30 If only we just followed the law. We wouldn't be in this situation. Illegal is illegal. Borders are there for a reason. No tax dollars to illegal aliens. No voting rights. No driver's licenses. No free education. No food stamps. This would have staved them off.

31 You mean "let it burn" is not a plan?  That really seems like the only viable alternative short of having a charismatic figure come along like Reagan.  And the press just will not allow that to happen these days.  There is not even anyone in the mainstream press who can understand the concepts on which the country is based let alone any who believe they are worth preserving. 

We are on the downhill slope.  ALL governments become tyrannical over time and the only way out is to reset through revolution.  No one wants to pay that price yet and the outcome could easily be far worse than the status quo.  So we wait for the country to come to its senses bearing in mind it is not likely to happen.

All we really have on our side is math... and the math says all of this will come to an end one way or another soon enough.  We are probably well past the point of no return so to quote a great philosopher... "what difference does it make now?"

32

Posted by: pep at March 19, 2013 12:05 PM (YXmuI)

 

Yeah count me in as awestruck that Bohner could say such a thing when he didn't have to.  That is also my straw that broke the elephants back.

33

As long as the left controls almost all media, we have little chance of winning.

No matter what we do or who we bring out they will be assassinated politically and image wise. We will not receive a fair shake.

In one of the links here yesterday, 65% of people polled trusted the dems more than the GOP on the economy. How that can still be is beyond me.

Maybe America does have too many halfwits now to to be saved.

34

#4 and #6 already nailed two key aspects of the problem.

 

I hope this isn't too simplistic, but we need candidates who are:

A. Articulate and savvy enough to lead their own campaigns, not relying too much on "experts" who have losing records.

B. Able to frame conservative issues like voter fraud, media corruption, crony capitalism, taxes, blah blah blah as the national existential issues they really are, and get people up in arms about them.

C. Able to generate optimism and even enthusiasm about our ability to solve those issues.

 

I know this might sound like "if a frog had wings...", but it may also be something achieveable and effective.

35 What Is Holding The GOP Coalition Together?

Centripetal force.

Duh.  Next question?

36 A big tent will always have a fair share of clowns,  and lots of manure.

37

What is so f'n hard about some form of: Seal the border first for real, then we'll try to handle the rest of it in a fair and humane manner that does not reward illegals for sneaking in illegally?

 

I really try not to be insulting on this site - I respect my fellow morons. But anyone who believes the GOP will, in any of our lifetimes, EVER attract a majority or near majority of Hispanic voters by supporting amnesty, is a total blithering idiot.

38

Since GOP is not fiscally conservative that can't be what holds it together?

Neoconservative foregin policy? Ya, that ain't working either.

 

39

Good post, Drew, but honestly I think it's more about the messenger(s) than it is about the message.  At least it has been these last two elections.

 

Right now the bigger problem appears to be our method of killing the messengers who come along, trying to take the mantle.  We have litmus tests for them, and pretty much no one  survives the process. 

 

Until somebody does.  We'll see.  2016 is still  (kind of)  far away. 

40 Mark Levin and Tammy Bruce both have the way to victory but the fuckheads in Repuke central would rather kill the whole clown car party than listen to them.

41 Can you say "huge Reagan landslides"? I think you can. Start with a "Two Tens Pledge": make every candidate swear to uphold the Ten Commandments and the Bill of Rights. And hold their feet to the fire. All the time. We need to start with something as simple as this b/c nominals (aka RINOs) don't even get that much, in many cases.

42 This reminded me of that piece (was it PJ Media?) where it said: The people agree with the Republican ideas, until they find out they are Republican ideas... How do you beat that?

43 ::::Right now people think we can do addition by subtraction. They are willing to throw 'the other guys" overboard in hopes of bringing in new voters in greater numbers than we might lose. We need to find a way to add by adding.

 

It's time we accept that our problems require more than tinkering and do major surgery. If those of us opposed to amnesty don't come up with a better plan, it will happen and we'll be in even deeper trouble.:::

 

That's it.  We just need to find the right  dick to suck.  Why not start with the Mexicans?  Everyone likes  Mexican food, right?  Look at how popular Taco Bell is.

 

Never mind that the GOP has never attracted any significant  proportion  of the Hispanic vote, or that Central Americans  have a historical  tendency to embrace Communism,  populist strongmen, and conspiracy theories blaming white gringos for all of their problems.  They are obviously  a natural constituency for us.

44 I just got some crap propaganda from the DEM lites (Republicans). It will be a cold day in hell before I give them 1 more dime. Stick a fork in me I'm done. Let it fucking burn and rebuild from the ashes.

45 Recall that Richard M.Nixon was all for an outright ban on hand guns. Was a Keynesian. Instituted wage and price controls. Was a "Republican".

46 Either we are doing status quo on immigration, or some sort of Visa/Citizenship deal is going to happen. The status quo, while it may be better in some ways, is a really hard sell politically. That's the pickle conservatives are in. Figure it out.

47

What's holding it together? 

 

Mortal fear of a fully unchecked Democrat / Socialist government.

48 By putting a stop to Dem voter fraud, for starters. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at March 19, 2013 11:59 AM (7ObY1) effin' this x a million. The Left wants everyone to get a permit/license/whatever to own a firearm, but requiring a picture ID to vote is racist? Maybe fraud didn't account for the sole reason why Obama won, but anyone who says it doesn't happen and that it doesn't happen on a fairly large scale is delusional.

49 If Hispanics (thanks Nixon for inventing that word) are natural born conservatives, then we should have won every election for the past 25 years by wide margins. Am I wrong?

50 or that Central Americans have a historical tendency to embrace Communism, populist strongmen, and conspiracy theories blaming white gringos for all of their problems. They are obviously a natural constituency for us. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 19, 2013 12:10 PM (CJjw5)

Ahem.

You mean they are a natural constituency for Alex Jones.

Then again, some people here think Alex Jones is a frickin' genius.

51 tsrblke said it well in 26.

52 What's holding the GOP together? momentum and duct tape, but mostly momentum. but a bad plan will usually trump no plan It depends on how bad the plan is. If it is a choice between shooting one's self in the foot and no plan, let me get back to you on that...

53 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

54 "Plenty of people will say that Romney was "forced on us" by "the establishment""

Not "forced on us" but the establishment repeatedly backs the "electable" candidate while the conservative vote is split amongst 3 or 4 others. They're grooming Jeb for 2016 right now when we'll split our votes between Paul, Rubio, Walker etc.

55 ::Centripetal Centipedal force.::
Fixed.

56 We opposed to amnesty actually have a plan, a simple, though not simplistic, plan. Or at least I do. To wit: We are a rule-of-law society that endeavors to treat all people as people, with no demographics getting special breaks or special power, where we have majority rule but not mob rule, and this society either gets back to pursuing that ideal--race blind, color blind--or we who wish it to be that kind of society take up arms. I think this a better plan than anything John McCain is offering.

57 As long as the left controls almost all media, we have little chance of winning.
No matter what we do or who we bring out they will be assassinated politically and image wise. We will not receive a fair shake.
In one of the links here yesterday, 65% of people polled trusted the dems more than the GOP on the economy. How that can still be is beyond me.
Maybe America does have too many halfwits nowto to be saved.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 19, 2013 12:08 PM (uhftQ)

But what's stopping you or anyone else from purchasing a major media outlet?

58 17---" What's holding the GOP together? That's easy: a common enemy." Posted by: major major major major at March 19, 2013 12:05 PM (MUhs0) ------------------------------- I call the Left the Left. They do include groups that may occasionally have competing interests, but they are uniform in their basic principles and ideology. I call "the Right" the Contras. We are a coalition united only (or at least mainly) by our opposition to the Left. What we need to do is to clarify what it is that all or most of us hate about the Left. Are there things we ALL hate?

59 The problem isn't with the stands on various issues, the problem is that the Republicans have no skill whatsoever in "framing the debate."  The Democrats, with the willing assistance of the Media, are masters at this.  The Dems know whatever position they take will be expertly framed as the "only sensible course of action" by the Media.  The Republicans have no chance to do the same. 

I don't have a solution to this problem.

60

Caving on Immigration and amnesty citizenship will not win us the Hispanic vote.

 

A fair immigration system will win us about 50% of the Hispanic vote.  Polls show that about 1/2 the hispanic citizens hate the current system and dislike all the criminal illegals too. 

 

Enforce the law, secure the border, and provide for legal and protected guest workers. 

61 What is so f'n hard about some form of: Seal the border first for real, then we'll try to handle the rest of it in a fair and humane manner that does not rewardillegals for sneaking in illegally?

I really try not to be insulting on this site - I respect my fellow morons. But anyone who believes the GOP will, in any of our lifetimes, EVER attract a majority or near majority of Hispanic voters by supporting amnesty, is a total blithering idiot.

Posted by: RM

***

 

You are wildly correct.

62 Romney was elected by the party AFTER he was forced on us by the establishment.  The establishment's choices of primary/caucus state schedules and debate formats and moderators saw to that.

63 The Republican Party will never be successful,   as long as it keeps running against  both  the Democrat Party  and the Republican Party.   Divide and conquer.

64 Wtf a bad plan is NOT better than no plan! That's some prog "thinking" for sure

65 Here is the post: Poll: Majority Back Republican Ideas Until They Hear that the Ideas Came From Republicans Shortly after the November election, I joked that maybe Republicans should all switch parties en masse just to confuse everybody. The media wouldnÂ’t know whom to attack, other Democrats wouldnÂ’t know whom to smear, and maybe the public would vote on ideas instead of party ID and other factors. Unexpectedly, a new Hill poll backs up the soundness of the old switcheroo... http://tinyurl.com/che4y8f

66 :::You mean they are a natural constituency for Alex Jones.

Then again, some people here think Alex Jones is a frickin' genius.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 19, 2013 12:13 PM (sbV1u) :::

 

US government spraying chemtrails to mind-control its citizens. 

 

US government  killing Hugo Chavez with its  cancer beam weapon.

 

Yep,  you are talking a match made in heaven.  Heaven for idiots.

67 I want more than 25% of the Hispanic vote when it inevitably comes. Is that too much to ask?

68 Turn off your tv and listen on the radio... democrats dont look and sound like communists then.

69 Why Hispanics DonÂ’t Vote for Republicans http://preview.tinyurl.com/d328r9f Write this link on your hand so you don't forget it. Try to prove her wrong, why don't you?

70 7 I think a good word for the Repubs to use is "bankrupt" as in, "if you're under forty, forget about collecting from Social Security, because... Bankrupt..."
Posted by: mallfly at March 19, 2013 12:00 PM (bJm7W)


Agree, and would be a good way to stick the financial crisis in the faces of the younger generation. I've known for years not to expect any SS when I retire, and anyone my age paying attention to more than the Kardashians knows this. If the left can have their global warming fearmongering tantrums bear fruit, surely we on the right can start up the bankruptcy fearmongering? After all, SS having been raided to pay for other stuff is an absolute fact, and everyone knows it.

71 Poll: Majority Back Republican Ideas Until They Hear that the Ideas Came From Republicans Somewhere in Hell, Walter Cronkite just declared victory.

72

Ability     to     change    postions?     Runs    in    my    family.

73 Vying for the Hispanic vote is a losing proposition.  They like their free stuff.  Poll after poll shows that.  And so do all the other ethnic groups.  Asians loves them some free stuff even more.  Wanna bet you will find as many illegal Asians come forward as Hispanics if amnesty is passed?  Indians, Pakistanis, etc. have come over on visas and simply stayed here with relatives.

Anyway.. we are not going to get those votes.

What we can get is women back.  We lost women big time.. double digits.

To moderate women, the GOP looks like a bunch of Neanderthals..  Akin and Mourdock and the stupid ass Congressman that introduce new bills every year to try to force the abortion issue are killing us.

Concentrate on women, first.. and then push the gun rights issue.. we make a big push that Dems are Big Brother.

74 US government killing Hugo Chavez with its cancer beam weapon. I thought Romney promised to only use that domestically?

75 I don't have a solution to this problem.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm

***

 

We need to take over at least half the media.

76 Are there things we ALL hate?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 19, 2013 12:15 PM (C8mVl)

 

Spiderclowns.

77

You know who had a bad plan?  Marshall Applewhite.

 

I think  it is not unreasonable to point out  that his bad plan produced worse results than no plan would have.

78 What is with this quaint notion that the truth belongs in politics?  If you ain't lying your teeth off thru your ass, you're gonna lose.

79

I don't see how the party thinks trading my vote for 0.3 Mexican votes is a win, but whatever.

 

The thing to do now it to join the Dems and get some sweet cash while it stll has value. Hopefully they won't hold voting for not on single pos fucking nation killing, traitor, sell-out, whore Dem in my entire fucking lifetime until now against me.

80
All I know is I am a conservative without a political party.  I don't know that I will find one the rest of my life.

81 The question is moot. Dread Lord Math is coming and the party ostriches have their heads buried and their asses in the air. Sic ludos incipiunt.

82 20 After a long stretch of defending him, I wrote off Boehner this weekend, not because he said he trusts O (he has to say that to sound reasonable to the LIVs) but because he said the country didn't face an imminent economic crisis.

"We do not have an immediate debt crisis. But we all know that we have one looming. And we have-- one looming-- because we have entitlement programs that are not sustainable in their current form. They're gonna go bankrupt. Washington has responsibility-- to our seniors and our near seniors-- that we firm up these programs so that they're there for the long term. Because if we don't do it, not only will they not get benefits, we will have a debt crisis right around the corner. We have time to solve our problems. But we need to do it now."

http://abcn.ws/ZBQXDK

83

76 -

 

That made me laugh.  Until I thought about it. 

84

If those of us opposed to amnesty don't come up with a better plan, it will happen and we'll be in even deeper trouble.

 

Conservatives want to blame everyone but ourselves.

 

No politician - Republican or Democrat - will support an idea fraught with risk. Conservatives have done a shitty job at removing that risk. (Liberals have the media and academia  on their side to make liberal ideas palpable. We don't.)

 

On  immigration, our ideas are deemed "racist" because of our half-hearted defenses. On gay marriage, we're losing not because of changing views of homosexuality, although  that is part of it, but rather because we've let  the institution of mariage die a slow death for 40 fucking years. No one cares about marriage. Period. We never made a solid defense of it, outside of "moralty" and  now we have Big Daddy Government and Marriage for Everyone as a result.

 

American voters will not accept alternatives to amnesty. Period. We had 30 fucking years since the last amnesty to win border control and we didn't do it.

If we want to win we have to reframe the  issues. That means cutting the bullshit and calling out race-based open borders groups like La Raza for  the racial hucksters they are. It means  reminding the media, everytime the issue comes up, that  almost all immigrants lean left when they come here and then move right, and that we're going to treat Hispanic  voters the same as the others and wait for them to change, not our principles.

 

If you want Republicans to vote the way you want, make it safe for them to do so and not lose suburban moderates  and the elections those people swing.

85 crap. sit ludos incipiunt Misspelling takes all the gravitas out of Latin.

86 What I'm finding frustrating is that a lot of the Obama voters that I talk to, not just independents, but also democrats, don't like a good share of what Obama does. This includes his getting tax increases and not giving spending cuts. They hold the view that gun control will do nothing toward slowing the murder rate. They want people pushed harder to get off welfare. Many of them are against abortion. And here in Michigan most people I know do not believe in pandering to illegal aliens. And most of them are concerned about what effects Obamacare will have on their insurance rates, or its being supplied by their employers. These people are voting for candidates who don't support their own views on issues. I just think that the voters are too easily influenced by the media's constant beating up on any GOP candidate. Any Republican candidate is going to be beaten to a pulp by the media.

87 That made me laugh. Until I thought about it.

SyFy movie of the week.

88 @ 58 Hell yeah, I hate RINO's, commies, gun bans, big "gummit", any daytime bullshit TV talk show, Obama, Illegal aliens, fags, Liberals in general, city folk in general. Pick 3 out the list and lets concentrate on them.

89 RE: Immigration

The best thing to do now is just shut-up about it and let the issue fade.  Rubio and Rand are only playing into the dems' hands by trying to take on the issue.  Wasn't the whole lesson of Clinton era politics that who controls the top 2-3 issues is the side that is winning?  Talk about something else.  (Such as 2nd amendment rights). But NOT immigration.

90

How do you deport 20 million criminals?

91 If your views on immigration are actually popular, then you will see GOP candidates caving, much like they did in '08 and '12. If not? Get the best deal you can. If we pass up a visa scheme and get saddled with unsecured borders and unlimited citizenship for hispanics, don't come crying to me.

92

87 -

 

I'll be sticking with Lifetime, thank you. 

93 Cyprus could never happen here. Why would it? We can print our own currency. Our government will just steal 10% through inflation. Same outcome, but we'll feel much superior.

94
There is of course a better plan than amnesty but the repub establishment would not accept it, they find it easier to roll over for the dems.  Because in the end, its all about their phony baloney jobs.

95 Rust and duct tape? Or is that a rhetorical question?

96 Poll: Majority Back Republican Ideas Until They Hear that the Ideas Came From Republicans

Somewhere in Hell, Walter Cronkite just declared victory.

Posted by: Ian S.

***

 

Yup. Their decades of hateful propaganda in non-political entertainment and the media has finally bore fruit. They repeated a lie often enough and it has become true in the minds of LIVs who now seem to be the majority of voters.

97

Major surgery doesn't help when the cancer is terminal.  Actually a more apt metaphor would be the many knives sticking out of the patient's back.

 

We are boned.  The last hope for anything even close to a soft landing evaporated in 2012.  A country that couldn't even bring itself to vote for Mitt Freaking Romney is not a country interested in the kinds of reforms needed to prevent economic catastrophe.  We're past the tipping point, and no amount of navel gazing is going to change that.

 

No amount of pandering to illegals who could give a shit about Enlightenment ideals such as self-determination will change that.

 

No number of gay "marriages" will be changing that.

 

No pandering to the lowest common denominators of society in the vain hope that one day they'll see the light is going to change that.

 

 

 

Sorry for the downer speech.

98 Hispanics are natural conservatives?....maybe, in the broader sense....but the immigrants want the free shit...and if they can vote for it...they will.

99 Seal the border first for real, then we'll try to handle the rest of it in a fair and humane manner that does not rewardillegals for sneaking in illegally? Define "seal the border?" How will we know when that goal is accomplished? Are we looking for 100% control? 90%? 80%? Who determines when it has been "sealed?" The reason this is important is that the Democrats have successfully defined this for us (because we refused to do it ourselves for fear of being "caught") as "100% control of the border," which they can then say "That will never happen, so what they're really saying is they're for deportation." At risk of going long... I just found and picked up (on impulse) a Graphic Novel about Maj. General Patrick Cleburne (the man for whom my home town was named, and the first man publicly to advocate freeing the slaves in the Confederacy). It was a good read, and the writer went to some lengths to make the known stuff (what battles he was in, etc.) historically accurate. That said, I want to use some of Gen. Cleburne's logic: if the point, to us, is not mass deportation- and it isn't- why not take some steps to remove that talking point from the public discourse? It costs us nothing to accept Sen. Paul's first step in his plan: "Seal the border. The border is sealed when the Border Patrol, the IG assigned to the Border Patrol, and Congress all agree that the border is as sealed as we can get it." I don't think we're going to get better than that. Then lay out, at least in general terms, our next steps. We know the other side's plan- complete amnesty. If we don't want that accepted by the general populace as the "reasonable answer," we have to give them a real reasonable answer.

100 If you want to win more Hispanic votes, find more Hispanic candidates. The party needs to be more diverse (and it's becoming more diverse, with Tim Scott, Marco Rubio, Suzanna Martinez, Nikki Haley, Mia Love, Bobby Jindal, Ted Cruz, and others) not because there's any inherent value in diversity, but because it will help win elections.

101 Posted by: 80sBaby at March 19, 2013 12:21 PM (YjDyJ)

Right.
but how much of that do you think CNN, MSNBC, et al aired last night?
(I'll give you a hit, I saw CNN Erin Burnett cut it off after sentence 1.)

102 Oh--since I'm just thinking on the fly--add in a Constitutionally-restrained government able to only exercise powers granted, where sovereignty truly resides in the people, not the state, and where neither the people, the Federal government, the States, and certainly not someone like Mie Bloomberg are uncheckable, able to do as they will solely by having power. That's what I'm willing to fight for.

103 I'll be sticking with Lifetime, thank you.


Ahh...the channel where all the villains, rapists, murderers, child molesters, and general no-goods are all men!

104 I want more than 25% of the Hispanic vote when it inevitably comes.

Add two things to the GOP platform:

1) the nationalization of the entire economy, and

2) the destruction of all non-Hispanic black Americans and all white Americans who aren't on TV.

You pragmatic or not? Hispanics don't vote on Hispanic immigration. There's nothing you can do about it that will give you even .001% more of their vote.

It's a racist, socialist demographic. Be a racist, socialist party, or you won't be theirs.

105 I said yesterday that if the RNC wrote a report on how to improve the Boston Red Sox, their conclusion would be "we've got to get Yankee fans to love us"

106 I've thought this same thing... I think we need to focus on what we can agree on and pull people toward. The Republican Party should be the party of personal responsibility and deference to local community standards. Are we for or against immigration reform? Well we are first for personal responsibility so if you have broken the law in coming here you must return home and get in line before you are eligible for benefits but we also believe that every person should take care of their own family so we understand the desire to come to America for a good living. So liberally grant work permits going forward but guard citizenship for those who follow the law (or demonstrate personal responsibility by joining the military) Are we for or against same sex "marriage" We believe that local communities set local community standards and that communities that desire to maintain traditional marriage should be honored. Should you get to use your EBT card at jack in the box? Of course not personal responsibility says we do not subsidize situations where people are not working. We understand economic dislocations happen and we desire. To provide basic foodstuffs to our fellow citizens in need but their is no way a standard of personal responsibility says you get money for KFC. Should Obamacare be repealed? Absolutely. Obamacare tramples the rights of local communiies to set their own expectation for behavior related to health. We recognize that local communities may desire to require their citizens to have health insurance and its not a bad idea to encourage personal health insurance responsibility but we must allow communities to set their respective local standards. Are we for big government giveaways to federal employees? We believe that their needs to he greater individual responsibility in the federal workforce as such we opposed non merit based increases and employee evaluations etc. And so on...

107 90 How do you deport 20 million criminals? The same way you deal with n number of anything. One at a time, starting with #1.

108

Its almost funny that none of you guys consider that youve been had. That every Republican politician with at least two brain cells knows that this limited government crap cant work in a modern society. Its election folklore for hillbillies! A society needs a strong state to be prosperous, but you neanderthals will spend at least one decade to wrap you feeble brains around this obvious truth.

 

 

Your time is over. Dont take it too hard!

109 Also, the battle over gay marriage is over, and we lost. It's time to move on. Get the FedGov out of marriage entirely and leave family law in the hands of the states where it belongs.

110 The Federal Government is irretrievable broken. Concentrate on the states.

111 Posted by: oblig. at March 19, 2013 12:27 PM (cePv Straw man, or you're a defeatist. Either way you aren't helping anyone.

112 Silly putty?

113

88 -

 

If you want an honest response, and I'm not sure you do, the problem with your suggestion is your first two words: "I hate..."

 

Republican ideas are not the problem.  Everybody who is not a Republican thinking Republicans hate them,  is the problem.   Personally, I don't hate anybody.  But that's me. 

114 Burn it down.

115 we've let the institution of mariage die a slow death for 40 fucking years. No one cares about marriage. Period. We never made a solid defense of it
..........
Bullshit.. it's not the GOP's fault that the institution of marriage has gone into the toilet. Nor, is it the GOP's responsibility to save it.  It is what it is.. cultural shift.

And, anyway, that's exactly the attitude that is WRONG with the GOP.  It's none of the federal government's business to defend marriage or any other social construct.  Its responsibilities are severely limited. And, that's what the GOP should be running on.

116 We need to eliminate abortion and gay marriage as weaknesses without necessarily adopting them as platforms. Not sure how to pull that off.

117 How do you deport 20 million criminals?

Posted by: garrett

***

Trebuches. Lots and lots of trebuches.

118 LET IT BURN

119 A society needs a strong stateto be prosperous Name one prosperous state, by American standards, with strong central control. Bonus points if you can find one without a homogenous ethic population.

120 Concentrate on women, first.. and then push the gun rights issue.. we make a big push that Dems are Big Brother.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 19, 2013 12:18 PM (f9c2L)

I'm very concerned about the women vote for the 2016 election. It's a given that Hilary will be the nominee, and the liberal entertainment hoi polloi have already christened her as the smart, sophisticated choice for heir apparent to the presidential throne. The stupid Fey/Pohler joke at the Golden Globes, where they gushed over being excited to see Mr. Hilary Clinton or whatever, is a good indicator of how things are going to go; they are already in campaign mode for her. We have to punch back against that ASAP or getting women to vote for any Republican we put up will be an uphill battle.

121 Washington will not allow itself to be changed from the inside. If you can get yourself elected to national office, you've already compromised enough to work within their system. The GOP has been thoroughly infected by big government advocates (the Democrats have been lost to this for decades). The populace has been brainwashed over four generations that big government is necessary (even the staunchest of mainstream conservatives wont even consider that Social Security and Medicare are blatant violations of the 10th Amendment). True constitutionalists are marginalized and called kooks. The GOP can serve itself best by removing themselves from the fight and let the Democrats own it. They can either wait for everything to collapse or start fostering secession movements in the few states that still see themselves as sovereign.

122 And I am against amnesty because it elevates "social justice" to the highest ideal of the American nation, when social justice is really just organized thievery and official favoritism, where some groups get made into official saints, and others into official devils.

123 101 Right. but how much of that do you think CNN, MSNBC, et al aired last night? (I'll give you a hit, I saw CNN Erin Burnett cut it off after sentence 1.)

Boehner should have done a better job of explaining of his point. That said, it does not help that Levin, Cavuto, and others are parroting the MFM line.

124 I have had it with all the motherfuckin' snakes in this motherfuckin' party!

125 Republican ideas are not the problem. Everybody who is not a Republican thinking Republicans hate them, is the problem. Personally, I don't hate anybody. But that's me. Posted by: BurtTC at March 19, 2013 12:29 PM (TOk1P) And where do people get these ideas? They get them from Movies and Television in which everyone on the screen spews hatred about Republicans and the ideas in which they believe. All of our entertainment and news is just one big propaganda machine with it's purported task only being a sideline.

126

If you read Drew's posts or his Twitter feed, you get used to seeing how he frames his points. Spoiler: He does it like Lefties do.

 

Yesterday, he Tweets that Romney has now been proven to not be the only candidate that could win for us. Never does he explain his logic there, how this has been proven since it cannot be proven.

 

Conservatives cannot really unify behind smaller government becuase some supported Huck, and he likes government church or some shit. So we can just write that off because of Huck? End of argument? Please.

 

I don't even disagree with Drew most of the time, but the way he gets there is, at times, either nonsensical or manipulative.

127

Also, the battle over gay marriage is over, and we lost.

 

Eh? How so?

128 What I'm finding frustrating is that a lot of the Obama voters that I talk to, not just independents, but also democrats, don't like a good share of what Obama does. This includes his getting tax increases and not giving spending cuts. They hold the view that gun control will do nothing toward slowing the murder rate. They want people pushed harder to get off welfare. Many of them are against abortion. And here in Michigan most people I know do not believe in pandering to illegal aliens. And most of them are concerned about what effects Obamacare will have on their insurance rates, or its being supplied by their employers.

Just the opposite, some of them who I talk to are blatant socialists.  They hate people who are marginally more wealthy than they are.  If you have money, then it means that you got "rich off the backs of poor people".  They are living stereotypes of the left.  They look at someone like Mitt Romney and think he could really do better if he just gave more of his money to the govt so that more poor people don't have to go without.  They look at his bank account and wonder "how do we more of that?" after I tell them that's what he has left AFTER he's paid all his taxes.  They don't understand that and think that as long as someone like him has an account with money in it, they need to come up with more tax laws to get it down to zero.

It's fucking depressing.  Put it this way, I'd rather take my chances in a pit of spider-clowns.

129 "deeper trouble" Like, the Messcans'll get advanced degrees in engineering?

130

I've got an issue that EVERYONE can agree on.  Legislation IMMEDIATELY introduced by GOP to prevent any bank deposit confiscation.

 

First it happened in Cyprus.  Now they are talking about it in New Zealand.  THIS SHOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY.

 

Appears Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit had the exact same idea I had yesterday:

 

 "Just more reason for the GOP to offer anti-confiscation legislation now."

 

 I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING????????  Tax Hollywood and pass a law protecting people's bank deposits.

 

DO IT NOW!!!!!

131

103 -

 

...but NOT spiderclowns. 

132 The winning combination is plain to see: For small business, against big business, for small government, against nanny-state tyranny, for robust defense, against interventionism AND isolationism. For defense of religion, against imposition of social values. Will the GOP do that? Not a chance. It would require championing the rights of people unpalatable to the so-con base (e.g. gays), treating the military as a defense force and not a GOP jobs program, and telling the farm lobby (aka Iowa) to stop expecting handouts. Like I said, never going to happen. They could try something simple like moving the first primary contest to Ohio, the pivot point for electoral votes. (I know: not a chance.) So, short answer, we're just waiting for the country to get sick of Democrat bullying again. Hope it's not 30 years this time.

133 Don't worry, wingnuts.  We've got four generations of Bush presidencies in the pipeline.

134 It dawned on me back in the 80s (I was born just after they invented fire) I realized the pure genius of limited government. It's manifold genius. Succinctly: Most politicians are whores. If you give government power, they will use it to fuck you. The GOP has not been making the case for limited government since Ronaldus Magnus. And, with the exception of Bush 41 (Reagan III) in '88, we've only eked out victory. (h/t to Jeffrey Lord @ American Spectator.)

135 109 Also, the battle over gay marriage is over, and we lost. It's time to move on. Get the FedGov out of marriage entirely and leave family law in the hands of the states where it belongs.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at March 19, 2013 12:27 PM (KSjsb)

I think it would be smart to have state elections over Gay marriage just to prove a point.  It's not so popular as Vichy GOP and MSM claim.

Guns and Immigration are hills to die on , I dont think so about gay marriage.

136 Life boat politics. The debt crisis is so serious those in charge are trying to talk it back. Tens of trillions in unfunded entitlements with GDP flatlined and another bubble, this time in stocks. This with EPA about to drop the hammer on the only real growth sector. Very Randian times, as in Ayn.

137 Eh? How so? No fault divorce. That was the the death blow against Marriage.

138 End withholding, stand back and watch it burn, then rebuild. Nothing else matters in the long run, if we don't starve the beast. Then call and Art5 convention to fix things like the commerce clause, balanced budgets, the Fed, incorporation of amendments, citizenship, personhood, etc.

139

We know the other side's plan- complete amnesty. If we don't want that accepted by the general populace as the "reasonable answer," we have to give them a real reasonable answer.

 

This applies to every major political issue.

 

But it's not as easy as blaming  "those damn D.C. Republicans!" so....

140

"How do you deport 20 million criminals?"

 

 

Give each of them a 30-round magazine and right-to-life T-shirt.

141 Posted by: nerdygirl at March 19, 2013 12:23 PM (ERh5p) Yep, agreed 100%. It's the, "well I don't agree with what he's doing but at least he's not a scary racist woman-hater Republican" syndrome and there are way too many out there who suffer from it. The Republican brand is damaged...perhaps irretrievably so. and they aren't doing much to help their own cause.

142 This applies to every major political issue. But it's not as easy as blaming "those damn D.C. Republicans!" so.... Posted by: CJ at March 19, 2013 12:32 PM (9KqcB) Any time the wind blows against conservatives, brace yourself for a lot of chest thumping at the HQ.

143 How do you deport 20 million criminals?

Posted by: garrett at March 19, 2013 12:24 PM (0XbhE)

You make it near impossible to find work or get benefits to live comfortably.  Not all, but a lot will conclude they have a better life and chance at finding work waiting back home.

144 "We do not have an immediate debt crisis. But we all know that we have one looming. And we have-- one looming-- because we have entitlement programs that are not sustainable in their current form. They're gonna go bankrupt. Washington has responsibility-- to our seniors and our near seniors-- that we firm up these programs so that they're there for the long term. Because if we don't do it, not only will they not get benefits, we will have a debt crisis right around the corner. We have time to solve our problems. But we need to do it now."

http://abcn.ws/ZBQXDK
Posted by: 80sBaby

Boehner agrees with Obama, "We do not have an immediate debt crisis". 
-what voters everywhere will see, courtesy of big media. 

Boehner had a bit of a point, but that's beside the point.  If he isn't smart enough to see the danger in his statement, he isn't smart enough to be speaker.

145 We can whine all we want, but until we gain more "media" presence  we ain't gonna win squat...  Marshall McLuhan was right ... the medium is the message...

146
   Instead of blabbering about immigration reform, why not try something new and different? 


    Like vigorously enforcing EXISTING law?  Do this, and you will see the deportation issue will self-solve. Along with the other issues.

    Or does that make too much sense?

147

125 -

 

Yes.  And that gets up back to the Breitbart approach.  Challenge them, to their faces, every day and every way. 

 

Right now though, we have one channel the LIVs think is Evil Central, and on the other channels we have mewling "conservatives" who nod and say "yes, but..." to the worst accusations. 

 

It is possible to get the message out, but again, as I said earlier, the problem is the lack of messengers.

148 well hobo....in all fairness.....this blog did win the CPAC blog of the year.....

149

No fault divorce.

That was the the death blow against Marriage.

 

He was saying that we lost the battle against gay marriage. Losing, I can buy. Lost? Not yet.

150 And, anyway, that's exactly the attitude that is WRONG with the GOP. It's none of the federal government's business to defend marriage or any other social construct. Its responsibilities are severely limited. And, that's what the GOP should be running on. Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 19, 2013 12:29 PM (f9c2L) It most certainly is. However, the greatest damage government does to marriage is subsidizing illegitimacy. Sex without consequences makes marriage far less attractive to most men. Back when government threw you in jail for adultery or cohabitation, Marriage was a lot more desirable. It is in the best interest of every government to insure their society is made up of stable and prosperous married families.

151 Boehner agrees with Obama, "We do not have an immediate debt crisis".
-what voters everywhere will see, courtesy of big media.

Boehner had a bit of a point, but that's beside the point. If he isn't smart enough to see the danger in his statement, he isn't smart enough to be speaker.

Posted by: pep at March 19, 2013 12:34 PM (YXmuI)

Boehner's better answer would have been "I'm defining Immediate much the same way the administration is for drone strikes."

152 147 well hobo....in all fairness.....this blog did win the CPAC blog of the year..... Posted by: phoenixgirl,commenter on a conservative award winning blog at March 19, 2013 12:35 PM (GVxQo) I love the HQ. Been here for eons. But we love us some circular firing squads. Especially after two disastrous presidential elections. I welcome the fight for ideas though. It's what separates us from the "liberals"

153 what's not holding the gop together is duct tape.....it would be too ouchie when it was ripped off......blue tape too.....

154

A society needs a strong stateto be prosperous, but you neanderthals willspend at least one decade to wrap you feeble brains around this obvious truth.

 

I know right!  All those 'strong states' of the 20th century really made  their  societies  prosperous.

 

By 'prosperous' you do mean 'liquidated  or starving' right?

155 @141 Did you just see a Discovery Channel thing on great apes or something?

156

90
How do you deport 20 million criminals?

----

You just need an archipeligo and 20 million informers

157 Second look at the New Whig Party?  Or has the GOP already co-opted that niche?

158 I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING???????? Tax Hollywood and pass a law protecting people's bank deposits. DO IT NOW!!!!! Posted by: prescient11 at March 19, 2013 12:31 PM (AKrrY) I second the motion.

159 see that hill? let's all picnic at the bottom and then nap

160 How did we lose the gay marriage battle? It's a great tool to drive a wedge between the white liberals and black working class elements of the Dims coalition. Look at the votes, they got their ass kicked in California on this. Who is walking away from this ... gimmie some dark money, make their commitment to identify politics a liability. Then exploit the black vs Hispanic rift. Then union vs immigration reform. Then ....

161

@142

 

Cut off welfare, social programs, free shit in general. They, for a lack of a better term, deport themselves.

162 Janet, O4A-Heroine at March 19, 2013 12:27 PM (2X94d) LOL. Do you have the track marks to prove it?

163

132 -

 

Amen!  Wait until Jeb's brown kids get here, then we'll REALLY clean up!!

164 "I know right! All those 'strong states' of the 20th century really made their societies prosperous.

By 'prosperous' you do mean 'liquidated or starving' right?"

Never fails.  Scratch a leftist, find a fascist.

165

One at a time is certainly the answer.

Look, someone gives you a job to do you figure out a way to do it. 

 I am sure the first guy that picked up a shovel on the banks for the Colorado river  thought that daming that thing and building a hydro-electric dam was a pipe dream...it is certainly easier to deport 20 million people than  it is to build another  Hoover Dam.

  

166 let's all picnic at the bottom and then nap

We approve of this plan ...

167 actually a combination of modern feminism and the welfare state destroyed marriage. Hell the great society destroyed the black community, marriage and all.

168 Is DC corrupt or not?
Is Big Biz receiving unfair advantages via Federal/State governments or not?
Is a low-interest rate regime bad for retirees?
Is ever-increasing levels of Fed intrusion into education helping students?

There are a host of things out there that are just waiting to be picked out of the populist playbook that have conservative solutions.

But Noooo, we gotta hold tight to our three-piece, stuffed shirt attitude, protect those that don't need protection, and ignore the average person's concerns.

The Left's long march through the institutions was a grand assault on traditional values of individualism and limited governance. If we are going to reverse the tide we have to discredit the central government as much as they have undermined our institutions.

Every bit of corruption exposed, punished, and made a spectacle is a bit of destruction of the deification of Big Government.  Big Gov needs to be made into the enemy and it has already provided a good reason why that is true.

Corruption.

169 I think it would be smart to have state elections over Gay marriage just to prove a point. It's not so popular as Vichy GOP and MSM claim. Guns and Immigration are hills to die on , I dont think so about gay marriage. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at March 19, 2013 12:32 PM (AWmfW) You are making an erroneous assumption when you believe them to be separate hills. It's all one big hill. Cede any part of it, and you have ceded the rest.

170 59 The problem isn't with the stands on various issues, the problem is that the Republicans have no skill whatsoever in "framing the debate." The Democrats, with the willing assistance of the Media, are masters at this. The Dems know whatever position they take will be expertly framed as the "only sensible course of action" by the Media. The Republicans have no chance to do the same.

I don't have a solution to this problem.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at March 19, 2013 12:16 PM


I don't think the Dems are masters at framing the debate, in fact I think they are for the most part as inept as the Repubs.  It's just that they know they can do or say anything because the media will frame it for them for the ignorant masses.  Until we get a charismatic leader that can actually articulate a message AND be able to fend off the media we're stuck. 

171 "deeper trouble" Mexicans with advanced degrees in engineering. End of civilization.

172

Immigration reform, just like education, could be the big issues that propel the GOP  to big wins in the midterms and next presidential elections.

 

Trouble is, republicans are too fucking stupid and scared to run the commercials that would turn the tide.

 

As long as the big money relies on people like Steve Schmidt and Karl Rove to shape the message, we're going to take it in the ass every cycle. 

 

 

173

Posted by: Janet, O4A-Heroine at March 19, 2013 12:27 PM (2X94d)

Weak sock or dumb troll? Sometimes is hard to tell. Ask the states with Republican governors and legislatures how terrible that limited government is going for them. Yeah, Texas, Wyoming and Utah are soooooo hurting right now.

Republicans are the party of success with a bad PR campaign; the product is sound, but it needs repackaging to make its message sing. Step 1: Fire the current GOP PR campaign leaders, just saying. . .

174 No one cares about marriage. Nah. That viral video from a day or two ago tugged at everyone's heartstrings. That is why it went viral. (The newsman, on bended knee, proposing.) And, gay "marriage." marriage is not dead

175

Driveby:

 

You are so correct.  It's as simple as pie.  But I think the establishment GOP doesn't even know what the fight is about.  They have no knowledge of the Glorious Revolution or what this fucking country was founded on.

 

The individual versus the state.  That is it.  That is all.  You can be conservative socially, very conservative, and yet at the same time say with all truth that it is not GOVERNMENT'S place to regulate morals to everyone else.  Especially at the federal level.  Questions of abortion, civil unions, even gay marriage are ALL TO BE LEFT TO THE STATES.

 

I can be against abortion and pro-life, but at the same time say that it is none of the federal government's business.  And the matter should be left to the states.  If the people want the federal government to address abortion, prolife or prochoice, then the way to do it is via constitutional amendment.

 

 

176

wow, once again what spews forth from Drew's mouth is nothing but liberal shit.

 

Where to begin?

1) Drew, you and all the bloggers that had a love affair with Romneycare are the GOP establishment, those that pretend that their opinions of who the GOP should nominate are more important than others and so spread their opinion to the widest people possible - that is 'establishment'. 

2)  'Romney had to move right on immigration'.  What kind of sick person are you?  Heck, for that matter, any issue where a candidate 'moves right'.  The candidate has to have a principled belief in his positions.  Just because he decides to say something different than he believes for a couple months, doesn't mean he's 'moving right'.  It means he's lying out of his mouth and can't be trusted.  The GOP establishment was just trying to get their way by having him pretend to be something he wasn't.

3) Huckabee/Santorum, really?  You use those two names as GOP folks who don't represent smaller government, but you leave out ROMNEYCARE, himself.  Yes, you are establishment GOP, you and they have firmly established yourselves as the RIGHT WING OF THE SOCIALIST PARTY.

4)  We don't need to tinker, we need to stand on principle.  Quit giving us liberal nominees that keep the base at home.  What you are espousing is to continue the same, trying to grab more of the liberal side of the independents by changing our positions.  NO!  You grab them by the bushels by nominating a candidate that stands by their principles.

Romney didn't lose because the GOP was too conservative on specific issues.  He lost because he was no different than Obama on the main issues.  He was a big government, We're Going To Run Your Lives from Washington DC, politician.....and that is what the GOP establishment wants - only they want to be the ones in power when it happens.

177

170 "deeper trouble"

Mexicans with advanced degrees in engineering.

End of civilization.

 

 

 

They did wonders with those obsidian knives.

178

"Seal the border. The border is sealed when the Border Patrol, the IG assigned to the Border Patrol, and Congress all agree that the border is as sealed as we can get it." I don't think we're going to get better than that.

This seems reasonable. It may need some massaging (Democrats are going to hammer that the border is already as sealed as it can get or need to be and would pull out the stops to pressure agreement) but I like the broad idea as a way forward.

179 A charismatic leader what can connect to the common and bitchslap the elite would win regardless.

180

It's time to stop pretending that the GOP at the national level, or even most of the state levels, is at all interested in representing what the base actually is interested in and cares about.

It's also time to stop pretending that the GOP deserves to continue to exist.  It's time for anybody who cares about liberty, fiscal discipline, and traditional values (and, btw, those three things are not mutually exclusive) to secede from the GOP, even if it means the Democrats win a couple of more elections while we're getting our act together.  I'm tired of the GOP "leadership" using the "but the Democrats will win if you don't vote for us!!!!" argument. 

The Democrats still win, even when we vote for the Republicans, even when the Republicans win the election.  The Democrats still win.

181 Cut off welfare, social programs, free shit in general. They, for a lack of a better term, deport themselves.

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 19, 2013 12:38 PM (t06LC)

Unfortunately, it seems the current way of passing laws in Washington, where everything is "comprehensive" such small, sensible new laws are not likely to happen.

182 How do you deport 20 million criminals? Posted by: garrett Call them white, old, businessmen.

183 The root of our problem is the media. If we don't confront the media we lose forever. Traitor Roberts even was swayed by what the media would say about him. All our positions are twisted by the media. All democrat corruption is hidden or downplayed by the media. We are labeled as racist instead of discussing our national problems while Occupy bridge bombers are hidden by the media. Boycott, buyout, replace the media or die.

184 Okay, seriously now: What holds Republicans together is Democrats. So long as Democrats look like they are a threat to everything most of us believe in, we hang together rather than hang separately. It's not actually a good thing, since we really need a set of positive beliefs and goals to get people to come over to us, but I think that's the primary thing.

185
can be against abortion and pro-life, but at the same time say that it is none of the federal government's business. And the matter should be left to the states. If the people want the federal government to address abortion, prolife or prochoice, then the way to do it is via constitutional amendment


 That's all good and well but the obama administration is systematically taking away States rights...

186 Rush is losing me as a fan. Second day in a row I had to turn him off.

187

Get the GOP out of marriage and call it a states right issue. Same with abortion.

Believe it or not that would help with women.

188

"I can be against abortion and pro-life, but at the same time say that it is none of the federal government's business. And the matter should be left to the states. If the people want the federal government to address abortion, prolife or prochoice, then the way to do it is via constitutional amendment."

 

Exactly.  I pretty much think abortion and gay marriage are the only *real* social issues that we ought to deal with at a governmental level, period.  And these should be at the state level, federalism and all that.

189 Like vigorously enforcing EXISTING law? Do this, and you will see the deportation issue will self-solve. Along with the other issues. Yeah, like when Romney talked about self-deportation? And every legal Mexican in my office freaked the fuck out over it?

190 Roland Martin also "too ethnic" for CNN?

John Nolte ‏@NolteNC

Whoa --> Roland Martin Tells Twitter Followers He's Out at CNN http://shar.es/eAdqE  via @BreitbartNews

191 However, the greatest damage government does to marriage is subsidizing illegitimacy. Sex without consequences makes marriage far less attractive to most men.

Paying unmarried women to have babies, then taking away the payments if they get married, makes marriage far less attractive to a certain subset of women, too.

192 I am might happier since Presdent Obama has come into my life. Under Bush I had less benefits and Presdent Obama is a God Send for people like me. The Republicans hate the middle class and just want to make Presdent Obama look bad for the next electron. The numbers about The Affartable Hellth care Act, Unemployment, GPD and other stuff our just lies about hem. We still blame Bush and call for his arrest for crimes agianst the peeple of America of all colars.

193 What holds Republicans together is Democrats.


Fear of a stupid planet.


wurd.

194 What Is Holding The GOP Coalition Together? Hate, and (fingers crossed, fingers crossed, lots of deep prayer every night before bedtime) a Huge Terrorist Attack. We're baaaaack.

195 Why. Bother? Repubs. Dems. It's all Kabuki theatre. Why would Boehner do this? How come McConnell did that? Sure Bush did some things we didn't like but he was basically a good man wasn't he? It won't matter if the GOP wins folks. And not just because of the math.

196 No fault divorce. That was the the death blow against Marriage. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at March 19, 2013 12:32 PM (xN73L) World War II. World War II took so many men out of the American Work force that a large segment of Women were pulled into it. The Women looked around and saw few guys with which to form a relationship and they had to fight for a dwindling supply of potential mates. They lowered their previously stricter standards as a result of this competition, and thereby changed the acceptable standards of behavior to a lesser common denominator. Add to this the development of Penicillin and other anti-biotics (thereby alleviating the fear of STDS) and the Development of the birth control pill in the 1950s, and you have all the ingredients necessary to initiate a sexual revolution. (Took place in the 1960s.) Ubiquitous Promiscuity made marriage far less necessary for men than in the past, and it made Divorce far more palatable. It started with World War II, and the societal changes wrought as a result of it.

197

"How do you deport 20 million criminals?"

 

One at a time.  The trick is not letting them get back in once they've been deported.

198

Traitor Roberts even was swayed by what the media would say about him.

 

I was simply paying a media tax!

199 "How do you deport 20 million criminals?" Start with 1000, next week 2000. I'm sure there's a learning curve. First, you streamline the process. The current legal protections granted to aliens are insane. Let them appeal, after they are sent home. The embassy can accept the paperwork in the consular section. If they were wrongly deported, mea culpa and pay some compensation.

200 End withholding, stand back and watch it burn, then rebuild. Nothing else matters in the long run, if we don't starve the beast. Then call and Art5 convention to fix things like the commerce clause, balanced budgets, the Fed, incorporation of amendments, citizenship, personhood, etc. Posted by: Jean at March 19, 2013 12:32 PM (S4AQU) I agree with this methodology, however I don't think Modern Americans are competent enough to run an Article 5 convention. I shudder at the thought of what they would incorporate into a new Constitution. Perhaps survivors of the deluge can be trusted?

201 Then call and Art5 convention to fix things like the commerce clause, balanced budgets, the Fed, incorporation of amendments, citizenship, personhood, etc.

Posted by: Jean at March 19, 2013 12:32 PM (S4AQU)

 

I could live with that. Do you think you could find 10 good Rs in Sodom to go along with it?

202

"Yeah, like when Romney talked about self-deportation? And every legal Mexican in my office freaked the fuck out over it?"

 

Of course, this brings up the issue of whether we should let our own foreign policy be determined by ourselves, or by a bunch of anti-American foreigners.  Because if they support illegal immigration, even if they themselves are here legally, then they're anti-American.

203 End withholding, stand back and watch it burn, then rebuild. Nothing else matters in the long run, if we don't starve the beast.
 

Full on reset.  All the way back to Clovis culture.

204 CNN is now whiter than a Klan rally.

205

Conservatives cannot really unify behind smaller government becuase some supported Huck, and he likes government church or some shit. So we can just write that off because of Huck? End of argument? Please.

 

Funny thing....Obama  opposed Bush's national  security measures, then supported them for political expediency. Obama opposed gay marriage, then supported it for political expediency. The mainstream  Left didn't care. Because he won, and they won, and they let him do what he needed to do politically, knowing it was better  for the cause and, in their mind, the country.

 

Now, He is different, of course. The Chosen One. But these political purity tests can become silly.

206

folks--

Just say eff it.
Hillary 2016 is a shoe in.

Let IT burn...  pick up the char'd pieces afters...

Not sure why you folks don't get this concept...

 

207 Roland Martin also "too ethnic" for CNN? John Nolte ‏@NolteNC Whoa --> Roland Martin Tells Twitter Followers He's Out at CNN http://shar.es/eAdqE via @BreitbartNews Posted by: kbdabear at March 19, 2013 12:43 PM (mCvL4) first soledad then, roland such racists h8ting, h8ter, racists

208 "Rush is losing me as a fan. Second day in a row I had to turn him off." What's he doing? I'm not a listener. Only briefly listened a few months ago when I did a lot of traveling by car.

209

This "tops down" control of the GOP is absurd.  The GOP brain wizards  do not have control and the belief that they will get it back soon is pure fantasy.  My dollars and votes (albeit limited) are not going to the GOP. 

 

Going through a 're-branding' and doing more consultant studies is all just a bunch of self examination B.S.   Let's face the fact that the current group of leaders for national office in the GOP have stunk.  We all held our noses in 2008 and 2012 and unless something changes will do so again in 2016.

 

So what worked in 2010 that got that 'historic' change in the House? The Tea Party worked from a standpoint of going out and kicking butt in local elections.   The 2014 cycle will be a test to see if they can do it again. 

 

 

210 "Seal the border. The border is sealed when the Border Patrol, the IG assigned to the Border Patrol, and Congress all agree that the border is as sealed as we can get it And the Border Patrol Union Reps sign on as well, because after it is sealed we can stop expanding their funding ...

211 Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 19, 2013 12:44 PM (bb5+k) I'm not sure that holds up. A very similar thing happened in WWI, including women in the workforce. Why not assume it started then? Women entered the workforce in the Civil War (while the men were largely off fighting and dying), why not then? I grant you that it is the societal changes, but I think those were on the way anyway. WWII may have been what allowed them to start gathering some steam, but it might not, too. However, there is nothing intrinsically bad for marriage for the woman to work outside the home. It happened in other cultures for millennia, and the idea of Marriage between one man and one woman didn't suffer terribly. Heck, Lydia (in the Bible) was the head of her own household. OTOH, No Fault Divorce gave State Approval to destroy any instance of that tradition/institution "just because." Once that happened, the Government really ceded any right to control what marriage means.

212 RE: Deportation

That word should be dropped from the GOP lexicon.  Call it "reverse migration" or "right of return" . But just emphasize that no physical effort will be made to round people up.  But rather conditions of legal employment and benefits eligibility will be toughened up enough whereas returning to their country of citizenship becomes more attractive than sticking around.

Its not brain surgery.

213 Get the GOP out of marriage and call it a states right issue.

The full faith and credit clause is being printed on pink ribbons just in case you think this would work.

214 What's holding it together?

Mortal fear of a fully unchecked Democrat / Socialist government.

Posted by: Jaws at March 19, 2013 12:11 PM (4I3Uo)

 

That's it right there. A winning message would be STOP THE COMMIE BULLSHIT NOW.

 

Democratic Party leadership has been suborned by its most far Left, extremist Marxist-socialist elements, and we--you and me and those of us who prize individual freedom, free markets, and a less-is-better form of government--are the only thing standing in their way.

 

Ted Cruz was right for calling those Marxist college professors Marxists. Call them out for what they are.  Let them squawk about witch-hunts and McCarthyism. Point out that Joe McCarthy, that broken-down, publicity-seeking alcoholic from Wisconsin, was absolutely right about communist infiltration of key industries and the federal government--specifically the State Department--and the Venona intercepts of Soviet transmissions from Washington prove he was right.

 

We're talking about communists here: real-deal, hardcore, old-school, Lenin-loving assholes, many of whom are now highly placed in the federal government. So go on the attack. Take the initiative. Put them on the defensive, for a change.

 

If the Republican Party can't stand up to a pack of slimy, low-rent communists, it needs to go the way of the Whigs.

215 It most certainly is. However, the greatest damage government does to marriage is subsidizing illegitimacy. Sex without consequences makes marriage far less attractive to most men. Back when government threw you in jail for adultery or cohabitation, Marriage was a lot more desirable.


It is in the best interest of every government to insure their society is made up of stable and prosperous married families.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp
............
Absolutely no disagreement there at all.  And here's the thing.. we have allowed Dems to turn illegitimacy into an institution.  We got Clinton to do welfare reform, but they simply replaced it with Earned Income Credits.. The father of the kids of the mom receiving "credits" could be sleeping in the same bed, but we'll never know it.. because welfare is now run through the IRS who never makes a house call.

Obamacare will be more of the same.. Mom and her 4 kids (or more) will get 90% subsidies on health insurance while the father(s) is unknown and paying nothing.

216 Diogenes, the founders weren't exactly saints. A selection of reps, selected by the States and a population that has had to write big checks to the Feds for a few years, might look a lot different then the current assortment of clowns and parasites.

217 @  188

    Why would legal immigrants freak over enforcing existing law?  I don't get that--no snark, can you expound  a bit?

218 The only thing holding the GOP together is the fact that we have no real alternative.... Pretty much every option leads to something worse, with only a couple having any chance at something better afterwards... And so we wait, trying to plug the holes in the ship as best we can, but knowing that its only a matter of time, and there are no more lifeboats left... If a truly viable alternative presented itself, the GOP would be dead almost overnight...

219

"The full faith and credit clause is being printed on pink ribbons just in case you think this would work."

 

They've already tried that in court, and failed.

220 Yeah 188, you sure they're legal?

221 It is a real problem that the current GOP leadership looks at the conservatives and Tea Party with contempt. I, for one, have had enough of that. I voted for McCain, not because of him, but because he chose a conservative running mate. I voted for Romney because at least Paul Ryan was offering ideas to get the debt under control. I will not vote for another candidate that I don't fully support.
 If that means the republicans never win the white house again, so be it. I'll probably be dead within 20 years anyway.
One thing I didn't hear from the autopsy report, is how the GOP is going to get their message out despite the MSM.

222 @ 217... Agree.

223 I think it starts by taking a look at what repels people from the GOP if we're trying to build a governing coalition.

The anecdotes I've run into almost exclusively are from people who aren't religious feel it's the "Christian Party", and since they're not Christians, they vote Democrat because they don't want "Church Lady" type politicians.  But on the real issues, these people are usually right-leaning in their views. 

Much of this is definitely the media making the Religious Right joined at the hip to the GOP, but it's not a complete fabrication, there are many "conservatives" that aren't any different than the Left, they just want authoritarian, nanny-government in their image.

There's no good reason why affluent women or white collar professionals should vote Democrat, but the GOP has badly lost this vote over the years.

We're not going to get everyone, personally I think it's foolish to try and win over inner city blacks or impoverished illegal immigrants, that seems to always be the focus, and it's fools' gold.  How about instead we start with more open groups like suburban women? 

The GOP gets something like 70-80% of white males.  If we came even close to that with white women, every election would look like 1984.

224 TC, I loved my PALIN/McCain bumper sticker

225 My plan:  Move to Costa Rica.  This place is fucking toast.

226

Of course, this brings up the issue of whether we should let our own foreign policy be determined by ourselves, or by a bunch of anti-American foreigners.

 

That's extremst rhetoric!

 

"Who should decide which foreigners are allowed into the United States, the foreigners or the United States? In a responsible society, the question would answer itself. But that's not the way things now work in the United States."

 

-- Jack Rosenthal, Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial writer for the New York Times, 1982.

 

Nevermind.

227 For the past two Presidential elections we have not been doing as good of a job of getting out the voters as the other side. It's just that simple. Of course, breaking it down more, our two candidates in those elections were both stinkers that made a lot of people want to stay home. There is no need to pander to any block of voters that will overwhelmingly reject the notion of limited government. Pandering to voters only gets us trillion dollar a year deficits for as far as the eye can see.

228

Use the immigration issue to secure a national identification card (they are called "passports") for all U.S. citizens.  If anyone wants to come to the U.S. to live or work, fine - glad to have them.  Everyone who comes in gets an identification card as a permanent resident if they want it.

 

Once we sort out who is a citizen and who isn't, use tax reform to switch to the Fair Tax Plan.  Citizens all will start receiving Prebates, non-citizens wouldn't.  The economics of the situation would be that every non-citizen is paying a 30% sales tax on everything they buy to help finance actual citizens.  It's a good deal for us.

 

If a permanent resident wants to become a citizen, they can go ahead and apply consistent with the laws and quotas established.

 

 

229 What should be holding the coalition together is a belief in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and federalism. Unfortunately we have a credibility problem there because of Bush, Rove, and company, and their "compassionate conservatism" bullshit. Like Medicare part D, No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act, DHS, an economic house of cards built on artificially low interest rates, endless military adventurism (with no concern for it's human, economic, military, or political costs), "deficits don't matter", bailouts for any entity deemed "too big to fail" (we need a policy plank that says any entity "too big to fail" should be broken up), corporate whoredom, green energy subsidies, and the rest of their stupid fucking nonsense. Obuttfuck is just a socially liberal version of Bush.

230 Burn the Witch.. I won't get much sympathy from anyone here but second day in a row he is mocking and making fun of gays.  Keeps harping the the study on why lesbians are fat and now I guess same study trying to figure why lesbians are drunks.  He just throws it out there every so often... makes him look small and petty and hey!! guess what Rush!! Ya ain't winning any hearts and minds you fucking douchebag.  Jesus, no wonder my kids won't listen to him.

231

We can't even get our federal government heroes to not allow ChiCom nationals to work on bleeding edged military research.

 

My federal government arms our enemies and supresses our voices if we protest an invasion from the south.

 

We re-elected a marxist,  pro-infanicide president twice.

 

What is there to save?

232 Because if they support illegal immigration, even if they themselves are here legally, then they're anti-American. Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at March 19, 2013 12:47 PM (YYJjz) Yes and the fact is, even with a GOP cave to amnesty, or a messaging about self-deportation or much of anything else in the way of an immigration discussion, for a large group of immigrants, nothing will ever be good enough coming from the Repubs. After the self-deportation freak out I asked what the problem was. The answer? "Well, if they can make better money here and live better then they shouldn't have to go home!" Yeah, dole out amnesty now thinking that it will get you more voters and you'll sadly see that these people won't vote Repub anyway because those nasty Repubs won't let the NEXT group of folks who come here illegally become citizens.

233

I don't have a solution to this problem.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm
***

 

We need to take over at least half the media.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 19, 2013 12:19 PM (uhftQ)

 

And hang the other half.

234 >>>Whoa --> Roland Martin Tells Twitter Followers He's Out at CNN http://shar.es/eAdqE via @BreitbartNews

The Roland Martin demographic represents, what, three viewers?

235 McAdams, white males + a few points higher among white women + 5% of African Americans = Victory. Go after the suburban and rural minorities, start at church: "the sexual fetish of white liberals is not a civil right, it's not the same as your struggle" sell it.

236 Posted by: jewells45 at March 19, 2013 12:56 PM (l/N7H) Ugh. Usually his instincts seem to be pretty good from what I've read, but that's just stupid.

237 You just need an archipeligo and 20 million informers

Posted by: Joe Stalin at March 19, 2013 12:36 PM (SO2Q

I'd call that a Great Leap Forward.

238 And yes they are legal.

239 143 Boehner had a bit of a point, but that's beside the point. If he isn't smart enough to see the danger in his statement, he isn't smart enough to be speaker.

It is not beside the point, because some conservative pundits bought the spin instead of actually watching the entire clip or reading the transcript and were criticizing him for the wrong reason. As for his communication problems, he either needs to memorize some simple talking points or let someone else do the talking.

240

Posted by: jewells45 at March 19, 2013 12:56 PM (l/N7H)

 

Rush didn't just make that stuff up about lesbian weight.  He made a point at the time about the absurdity of the reports and how it doesn't jive with gay men not being overweight.

 

The only people who believe Rush takes potshots at gays are Media Matters readers.  If you're going to listen to Rush, try to keep up, but if you don't, don't assume worst by adopting the liberal line.

241 234.

The problem with "starting at the Church" is I believe overtly trying the appeal to religious voters often times turns off secular voters.  If you turn up the volume to try and eke out a few more religious voters (like say a Huckabee) you're turning off large swaths of America.

Look, if there was one test to know where this nation stands on social issues, it was 2012 where Obama overtly supported gay marriage and taxpayer funding of abortion and birth control, and he won.  And many Republican Senators running even in Bible-belt Red States lost because they went too far on certain social issues that should have been easy lay-ups. 

We live in a secular country, and we either try and figure out how to win with the voters we have, or we just lose election after election but try and take comfort in the fact that we're "right" on these hot button issues that usually politicians have very little to effect one way or another.

242 jwest.. I can keep up just fine.  But thanks for your concern.

243 Drew: "Right now people think we can do addition by subtraction. They are willing to throw 'the other guys" overboard in hopes of bringing in new voters in greater numbers than we might lose. We need to find a way to add by adding." Great points all.

244

The problem with "starting at the Church" is I believe overtly trying the appeal to religious voters often times turns off secular voters.

 

Every "conservative" issue can be defended and advanced without ever having to mention religion.

245 I want a new base. Rove, get on it.

246 Here is an idea.  Why not reclaim the word "liberal" as a matter of re-branding?  The left has completely abandoned it.  They abandoned it in principle long before they abandoned it in name, but it would let the right plausibly back in the door with many on the center-left. 

Just make it plain that we stand for truly liberal values (in the classical and only meaningful sense).  What scares people out of voting for Republicans?  They are afraid the right will legislate morality.  They are so scared of it that they let the left regulate them to death and legislate a secular morality.  Give them the choice of not having to give up any of their freedoms if they just let us have ours as well.  It is a win-win and it is a symptom of the decline of our political class that no one can make that argument because they are afraid of giving up their own source of graft.

I think everyone is tired of having to worry about which idiot is in charge.  The only way to stop that is to limit the power of the political offices.

247 243 The problem with "starting at the Church" is I believe overtly trying the appeal to religious voters often times turns off secular voters.

Every "conservative" issue can be defended and advanced without ever having to mention religion. Posted by: CJ

On the issues that really matter and we can actually "do something" about, I agree. 

But on many SoCon issues, I disagree.  How do you argue against gay marriage if you think there's nothing wrong with homosexuality?  Most of the non-religious arguments I've heard are pretty weak.

248

249 "If those of us opposed to amnesty don't come up with a better plan, it will happen and we'll be in even deeper trouble." It's reversible. By which I mean, there was a period of time where Robert E. Lee and 11 million other natural-born citizens couldn't vote without doing paperwork. Some of them didn't and weren't enfrancished.

250 A lot of the GOPs problem are related to poor choices made by or around Romney. 

For starters, Romney's basically a money guy -- knows how to handle money, get folks together and move forward on stuff.  Who did he choose for VP -- Ryan, a budget guy who is about as close to a money guy as one can get without wearing the same pants. 

Problem with this is the 6th article in the Bill of Lefts -- Deficits and debt only matter to those with money.  If the government gives you a credit card for anything, the more you use it, the more free stuff you can expect in the future". 

The GOP LOSERship has totally ceded the Social Marketplace concept to the Obamacrats.  The LOSERship is all about getting folks together and moving forward, leaving something behind in their pockets to help them retain power.  The LOSERship is not about new ideas nor is it about principles.  It's all about getting money and power in their pockets. 

Meanwhile, out here in Bubbaville, Romney was percieved a decent candidate, but he narrowed, rather than expanded, the tent by choosing one of his own kind.  If Romney had chosen someone more in tune with the Social Conservatives with a touch of Ronulanism, we'd be talking about President Romney balancing the budget instead of a decade of higher spending. 

In other words, the GOPs problem is their LOSERship lives in a old man's tent that is surrounded by a moat of mumbojumbo when it comes to articulating clear and concise messages on what it stands for on any topic including, but not limited to how to individualize any social marketplace so it runs largely outside of gubermint management.  

For example, the LOSERship hasn't figured out how to leverage it's mumbojumbo to design a reasonable plan to evolve Planned Parenthood into a private charity free from direct government support.  Nope, the LOSERship just sits on it's hands when the Social Conservative scream 'defund Planned Parenthood'.   Instead, if there were leaders within the LOSERship, they'd be talking to the Social Conservatives about how 'defunding' doesn't market to many voters, while "private charity" probably would, and would end with the same result of getting Planned Parenthood (aka the abortion social marketplace) out of taxpayers pockets.   A truly inspired leader might at the same time push the development of a private charity for woman's health (a womans health social marketplace) to compete with a private charitized Planned Parenthood. 

In other words, Social marketplaces is where modern politics is and has been for decades in the land of Bubbaville.  The GOP LOSERship, not so much.   It's just so much mumbo jumbo to them... 

251 @249 A Republican House majority doesn't need to build a 60% majority in the polls to defund Planned Parenthood. It just stops voting to fund it, and then points out how women aren't flooding into back alleys without taxpayer funding.

252

The GOP LOSERship has totally ceded the Social Marketplace concept to the Obamacrats.

Posted by: Seipherd at March 19, 2013 01:45 PM (y9L1G)

 

You're right. It should be noted that social conservatives are not 'conservatives' in that they're attempting to preserve the status quo since the status quo is controlled by liberal Democrats, and has been for quite some time. The status quo is abortion. The status quo is the ongoing disintegration of the two-parent household. The sstatus quo is the semantic reengineering of the term 'family' to mean anything they want it to mean.

 

Social issues are only loser issues to the GOP leadership because many in leadership positions don't believe in these issues strongly enough to fight for them. They keep claiming this or that hill isn't the one to die on. Okay, fine: then let's play Name That Hill. Show me where you, the leaders of our party, will say, 'This far and no farther'.

 

They haven't found it yet, evidently.

 

 

253 Addition by subtraction. Um. Yeah. Small government. Fiscal conservatism. Personal responsibility. Personal liberty. These are my guiding principles. Any GOP hopeful whom deviates from these, into the Huckabee=big-government-in-your-bedroom or intrusive-government-legislating-morality-or-religion need not apply. I will not, ever, support a candidate, or a party, with my dollars, or my efforts, who pushes large government, intrusive bullshit like that. That means pretty much all socons are toast IMO. If this means that a tax and spending liberal epic failure, like what we have now, is the opposition, and all we have is a Santorum or Huckabee like candidate? I'm gonna sit that one out. Immigrants, legal and illegal are here for a better life, because we have a better system for moving ahead than other nations. Because we attract the most ambitious. Because we give everyone a chance. I appreciate we are a nation of laws. And those laws must be followed. They must be enforced. We cannot selectively choose to enforce them. Which means we need to simplify them so that they are enforcable. Yet we cannot enforce them because the laws are too large and complex to be enforceable. I appreciate that there are immigrants who follow procedures and the law to get here. And there are those that don't. Some in this party want to punish those who come here illegally. That is, fundamentally, stupid. Admit them here, as guest workers, and apply a fine to them equal to the taxes they would have paid had they been legal workers here for the duration of their time here. These are the hardest working sons-of-bitches you can imagine, trying to keep as much of their earnings as possible, because they ARE FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE and are ENTREPRENEURIAL. I tell everyone with half a brain in this party that they are our NATURAL allies, if only we would stop trying our damnedest to get them to vote for the idiots who want to keep them in chains. Of all the mindblowingly stupid crap I see coming out of this party, this is one of the top two issues that we have to fix. Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz have it right, as does Rand Paul. If you are on a different side of them, chances are you are stupid. The other issue, the issue that defines our generation of socons, is gay marriage. Anathema to some, it is a defining dividing line between people with a clue, and people seeking to foist their belief system on others. The latter, I have no use for, and will never support. Homosexuals are again, better educated on average, have higher incomes on average, are taxed more heavily than the union thugs that their taxes support ... and again, as with all immigrants, they are our natural allies. As long as we have the collective brains not to try to deny them their pursuit of happiness, because our religious imperatives incline us in that direction. I am not a homosexual, I have worked with them, I've interacted with them, and generally speaking, I like most of those whom I met. They are good solid, and fiscally conservative people for the most part. Our allies. And yet we demand that they not pursue their happiness in order to deal with our own insecure sensibilities. Seriously folks? Seriously? You can't add by subtraction ... only true if the thing you are subtracting is a net positive and not a net negative. In the case of those demanding gays be denied things that would make them happy, or that we punish the shit out of illegal aliens, yeah, subtracting their net negative sorry asses would be a strong positive for us. /sigh Somehow I think this is going to get lost though. And we are going to keep losing to real winners like Obama until we figure out how to actually treat people, and abandon asinine concepts. How many more election cycles is this? How much more damage do we have to accept before we can rid ourselves of this liberal big government tax and spend massive deby disease and get on to healing? Keep up with Santorum and Huckabee, and it will be "in perpetuity". We have hard choices to make, and if that means we have to grow the tent by removing the noisy assholes who are trying to keep the rest of the folks out of the tent ... then so be it.

254 One thing holding the GOP coalition together is disgust with people like Harry Reid. http://bit.ly/ZQKJhH Focusing on problems dividing us is stupid. Focus instead on our agreements. Don't be such a downer. Have a little more fun.

255 Since 5 justices of the Supreme Court say that abortion is a general liberty right, and there's bipartisan support in congress to fund it out of the federal budget, what's the mechanism by which the issue is left to the states? Or are you just finding a losing position that feels easier?

256 "On immigration and same-sex marriage the committee was essentially saying, the base of the GOP needs to move on to survive." - No, the base will not survive amnesty and continued mass immigration fueled by the prospect of amnesties to come. Chronic mass immigration plus forced integration is white genocide. It means that in the long run, by design, all white people are going away. That means the white conservative base is going away. What the party leaders are saying is, the party needs to dissolve the base and import a new base so that the party and the leaders can continue to thrive, without needing to indulge a white conservative base that they despise, because they the leaders are influenced by a mass media and academic culture that has been making working class whites stink in the nostrils of the elite. I am trying to put this as starkly as possible, because the reality is stark. The leadership of the party is committing to policies that imply the elimination of the base, and by "elimination" I mean in demographic terms, not just conceptually. There is not compromise to be had in this issue. It is not even "surrender or die". It is "surrender and die".

257 6 What is holding the democrats together? - The mainstream leftist media which herds the cats, academia which teaches highly educated young whites to hate their fellow whites, and loot. White America is being looted for the benefit of non-white America, through preferences and targeted government policies. Men are being looted to support women and single mothers. (Because gender is still important, even though race has proved more important). And America as a whole is being looted. In a country that was built well and is not being plundered, you can have an economy for a while that runs on the moral equivalent of copper thieves, digging up and selling the wires that keep the electrical grid going. You can't have it forever. And things are running down.

258 In a country that was built well and is now being plundered... This is what's happening, and it's a vast shame.

259 27 Listening to Republicans say they can run a powerful centralized authority better than theDemocrats doesn'treally change anything. - Right. They don't want to change the looting system. They want to be the top looters, that's all.

260 33 As long as the left controls almost all media, we have little chance of winning. - Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!

261 (b) find a solution which voters hear as “yes”. I’d argue that there is a “yes” in “reform for the immigrants who are following the law”.
The "solution", I think, is to grant amnesty to illegals who have, yes, broken the law by working under a phony SS# and have therefore contributed to the retirement of we legals, with no benefits for themselves. This, to me, qualifies as having paid a substantial fine, depending on how many years they've worked off/on the books. I'd require that anyone receiving amnesty under this rationale, have at least five years of an illegal work history and SS contributions to the system, but who has no criminal record, otherwise. However, I will note that its also fairly common to "borrow" a citizen's or legal resident's SS card or # which clearly negates any concept of the illegal worker having paid a fine into the general fund. Clearly, one would need to have a documented work history and any SS freeloaders, witting or otherwise, would need to have their unearned SS contributions remanded to the general  fund. I know I could accept this as a fairly just solution and I suspect most Americans could accept it as such as well. Now, the only problem with this is that it leaves out those who worked truly under the table as housekeepers, childcare workers or day laborers with no fake SS card. Ironically, their failure to acquire a fake SS could hurt them under my otherwise rational plan. A retroactive fine amounting to what would have been their estimated SS contributions might be in order prior to granting them legal status. Again, contingent on no felonies, etc.

262

If the Republican Party wants to move its position to match the progressives, then any rational conservative who actually believes in the primacy of liberty and personal responsibility is going to have to find common ground with libertarians (or at least libertarians of a Christian persuasion).

 

If they aren't willing to consider such a move, then the Republican Party needs to vanish into the nothingness toward which it has been heading since Nixon.