February 20, 2014
— Ace Sarah Hoyt, a one-time member in the SFWA, tells her tale the way writers have been doing since the dawn of mankind: In gifs.
Another writer (I think) describes the meltdown at the SFWA in text. Warning: Contains sexist, offensive language such as "Glittery Hoo Haa Brigade" and "Whiny Tw*T."
Oh and she's a she, I think, but you know, Patriarchy.
Both writers make a point: The people doing all the kvetching, agitating, and purging are mostly n00bs without many books to their credit who are using political correctness to go after older, more established people in the field.
More: Another writer (I think) digests some of this meltdown. Apparently the SFWA wanted to shut down its quarterly magazine Bulletin until it could guarantee that nothing that wasn't up to its "standards" -- by which it means was PC-approved -- would be published therein.
Here are some of the writers who signed a petition objecting to this censorship:
Notice who has signed the petition, names included at the bottom of the petition. They include (but arenÂ’t limited to) Gregory Benford, David Brin, Amy Sterling Casil, C. J. Cherryh, Jack Dann, Harlan Ellison, David Gerrold, Janis Ian, Nancy Kress, Mercedes Lackey, Barry N. Malzberg, Jack McDevitt, Larry Niven, Dr. Jerry Pournelle, Mike Resnick, Robert Silverberg, Norman Spinrad, Allen Steele, Harry Turtledove, Vernor Vinge, Gene Wolfe.Maybe youÂ’ve heard of a few of them?
Only some of the biggest names in the field.
The only name I recognized (other than Gould) who has come out publicly in favor of the oversight committee is C. C. Finlay. The rest are people like Natalie Luhrs (who?) and Angela KorraÂ’ti (again, who?). No disrespect to these ladies intended, but IÂ’ve never heard of them, and I make an effort to keep up with new authors in the field. Obviously, there will be some new authors that I miss.
What I do find interesting (and disturbing) is that there seems to be a generational war going on in SFWA. At least it appears that way from the outside. (IÂ’m not a member, have no desire to be a member, but thatÂ’s a post for another day.)
The generational war, it seems, is less about the generations than the values each generation holds dear. The older writers are liberal in temperament (by which I mean, they object to censorship, and believe in free expression), and the newer writers appear leftist (and they believe speech must be managed and censored by a Oversight Committee of some sort, say, a Vanguard).
Thanks to TV. No not the TV. I'm just calling the tipster TV.
Correction: It was not the SWFA's "bulletin board" which was shut down, as I claimed; it was their quarterly magazine Bulletin.
Thanks to @rdbrewer4 and a guy who claims to be a pirate for that correction.
More: Merovign offers some thoughts below.
Okay, this is one I actually know something about, though there are many others who are more deeply involved with these peeps because I Saw This Coming Miles Away.Part of it is the Long March, the need of the left to seek to be in charge when more that three people gather. I've seen "professional managers" take over fan clubs and turn them into propaganda organs. They don't even have an interest in the subject, they just live to turn as many groups as they can get their hands on into platforms for their ideology.
But since this is writing, there's another (similar) layer to it, that I've mentioned before - some people in genre fiction have an inferiority complex because they're not considered as prissy and neurotic as they would be if they were writing "literature."
There is a serious desire, especially when you get to the organizational level, to be "more like the literature writers," and by "literature" I mean the non-genre writers who have their books in the front of the store, get on daytime TV, and generally get lots of beejers from academics and reviewers.
"Literature" is supposed to be the highest quality, most insightful, and most challenging writing. Actually it's often the most turgid, over-complicated, and predictable writing. It has become the Home Of The Politically-Correct in writing.
Some writers have been rebelling against that for a while - for a variety of reasons. One of my extremely lib acquaintances, as a writer, objects strongly to the movement, despite the fact that they are a *lot* closer to its ideals than I am, for some of the reasons in the previous paragraph.
Reason #X why I don't belong to SFWA.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith
I've noticed this inferiority-complex showing itself via politically correct messaging. For example, when people interview Stan Lee about Marvel Comics -- well, look, it's a bunch of silly melodrama and pointless fights with costumed Luchador wrestlers, isn't it?
So how does he sell that Marvel was important? He always makes note of Marvel's forays into "serious" issues, whether it's Luke Cage as a symbol of black empowerment (actually-- look, blaxploitation; he's a super-powered Shaft ripoff), Captain America's denunciation of the United States after Watergate, and so on.
Similarly, whenever anyone talks about DC... if I have to hear one more time that the Green Lantern/Green Arrow partnership explored "political questions" and was "socially relevant" and that it was really a landmark event that Green Arrow's partner Speedy became addicted to heroin, well, I will hang myself.
It's not that they don't have the right to tell these stories, or to be proud of them.
It's just that they're really trying to sell the idea that what redeems these frivolous four-color fantasias is that they occasionally Check That Box when it comes to trendy political (usually politically correct or left-leaning) thought.
Is that all it takes? Can I write something that is nothing but pure trash and then toss in some "themes" about the Occupy movement and now my trash has become a treasure?
Sci-fi and fantasy have long labored under the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, that they constituted a branch of children's literature. This suspicion no doubt sings. But children's literature does not become adult literature just because you throw in a "Socially Relevant Theme."
Frankly, that's how children think.
Posted by: Ace at
09:29 AM
| Comments (396)
Post contains 1081 words, total size 7 kb.
Posted by: MTF at February 20, 2014 09:32 AM (F58x4)
>>>Michelle Kwan shouldnÂ’t be allowed to do advertisements for Coca-Cola while sitting on a presidential fitness and nutrition council, a leading healthcare nonprofit said Wednesday.
The D.C.-based Center for Science in the Public Interest lambasted the Obama administration over the former Olympic figure skaterÂ’s ad, arguing that allowing her to endorse the sugary drink undermined the integrity of President ObamaÂ’s Council on Fitness, Nutrition and Sports.<<<
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at February 20, 2014 09:32 AM (DLu2s)
Posted by: ejo at February 20, 2014 09:32 AM (GXvSO)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 09:32 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at February 20, 2014 09:33 AM (R8hU8)
Posted by: MTF at February 20, 2014 09:34 AM (F58x4)
Posted by: Beagle at February 20, 2014 09:37 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: soothie at February 20, 2014 09:37 AM (0zKHM)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 09:37 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 20, 2014 09:38 AM (HVff2)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 1 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 09:38 AM (IXrOn)
We can make this political, or we can ignore it until our choice is to think only allowed thoughts or be sent to camps.
Either way.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 20, 2014 09:39 AM (AskuI)
Posted by: The Jackhole at February 20, 2014 09:39 AM (nTgAI)
We all know this, but it bears repeating anytime you see someone cite them as an authority--"Center for Science in the Public Interest" is one joyless crank with a fax machine.
Posted by: HR at February 20, 2014 09:39 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 09:40 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 09:40 AM (WZQdF)
Posted by: nnptcgrad at February 20, 2014 09:40 AM (3VyOy)
Posted by: Jean at February 20, 2014 09:40 AM (4JkHl)
Posted by: HR at February 20, 2014 01:39 PM (ZKzrr)
The longer the name of your organization, the bigger asshole you are
Posted by: The Jackhole at February 20, 2014 09:41 AM (nTgAI)
Posted by: tangonine (Entropy sucks) at February 20, 2014 01:18 PM (x3YFz)
...and speaking of not politicizing everything...i'm looking forward to next weeks Justified so we can discuss and enjoy something that's good in life.
Posted by: concrete girl at February 20, 2014 09:41 AM (LhAqq)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 01:40 PM (WZQdF)
Pat ?
Posted by: The Jackhole at February 20, 2014 09:42 AM (nTgAI)
Posted by: blaster at February 20, 2014 09:42 AM (4+AaH)
Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at February 20, 2014 09:43 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: HypnoToad at February 20, 2014 09:43 AM (jjaLl)
Posted by: Nynaeve al'Meara at February 20, 2014 09:43 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: Zombie Lavrentiy Beria at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Nynaeve al'Meara at February 20, 2014 01:43 PM (Xdn8D)
Then I'm getting the hell outta here!
Posted by: Rand Al Thor at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (jjaLl)
Posted by: Null at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (P7hip)
Geeks who couldn't get laid in a woman's prison with a handful of pardons got their rocks off vicariously through ME
Even Spock liked to raise a leering eyebrow when Janice Rand turned to leave the bridge
Posted by: Capt. James T Kirk at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (aTXUx)
To answer your lengthy thought, I agree, from sports to SciFi to tits, and anal if you're into that, there's a lot OTHER than politics to life. A lot.
The problem we have is thus: You know you're reaching the danger zone when you can't get fucking politics or govt out of your everday life if you try to. The leftists are trying to impose their shitty views and will on all of us, every fucking day, every hour.
In my view, it has come down to where we tell them just to fuck off. How much more of this bullshit can we put up with?? It is getting to the point to where we refuse to abide by their ridiculous edicts. Civil disobedience is coming.
Posted by: prescient11 at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 1 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (IXrOn)
Your reminder that there is a generational war occurring is a big deal.
I wonder if there is an untapped reservoir of baby boomers who are a little put off by the incessant demands for lockstep.
Probably not, but isn't it pretty to think so?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 20, 2014 09:44 AM (QFxY5)
Either way.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 20, 2014 01:39 PM (AskuI)
^^^^^This. I know that I've reached the tipping point and lately pissed off a few people by calling out their bullshit.
Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 20, 2014 09:45 AM (RQDhf)
Womyn On Wyverns Unite Against The Partriarchy!
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 09:45 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 1 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 09:45 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 20, 2014 09:45 AM (659DL)
Posted by: blaster at February 20, 2014 09:46 AM (4+AaH)
Posted by: Zombie Lavrentiy Beria at February 20, 2014 01:44 PM (O66NZ)
And I learned well.
Posted by: Nikita Khrushchev at February 20, 2014 09:46 AM (QFxY5)
Leftists infiltrate institutions and organizations in order to use the legitimacy of the institution to promote Leftist ideas. Unfortunately, that hijacking of the institution leads to the demise of the institution as the purpose it was created for is ignored. Without heavy outside subsidy the institution crumbles.
Example: Liberal Arts and the MSM survive due to heavy government and corporate subsidies. Mainline Protestant Churches have withered away because they have had no subsidies.
Leftism is a destructive thing - the only thing it can do is destroy.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 09:46 AM (hLRSq)
I'm not a huge Sci Fi fan but I do know that at its finest, sci fi can explore sociopolitical ideas in an interesting and enlightening way. (Philip K. Dick comes to mind.) But if the shackles of conformity are to bind writers, what is the purpose of sci fi?
A few days ago there was a thread about how Blazing Saddles could not be made today. Of course, that's true and it does not compliment Hollywood. I haven't noticed a lot of great or good or even reasonably good movies or TV shows coming out of Hollywood lately. Much of the reason is that the universe of acceptable ides is continuing to shrink. Only certain people can be bad guys. All good guys must believe in certain things. The self conscious self conformity of our artist who consider themselves free spirits and free thinkers is an indictment of the shallowness of their thought.
P.S. Movies suck.
Posted by: WalrusRex at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (XUKZU)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: jwest at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (u2a4R)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 01:40 PM (WZQdF)
Pat ?
Posted by: The Jackhole at February 20, 2014 01:42 PM (nTgAI)
Or, J.K.
So "Butch Steele" is right out then, isn't it?
Posted by: Blanco Basura at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (YEelc)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (5xmd7)
Fine...fight it by taking your mother's last name, which is your mother's father's name.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (QFxY5)
Posted by: Al Gore at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: The Dude at February 20, 2014 09:47 AM (bStrg)
Posted by: blaster at February 20, 2014 09:48 AM (4+AaH)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 09:48 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 01:45 PM (kXoT0)
Has to be the classic porn movie of our generation.
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 20, 2014 09:48 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: Buzzion at February 20, 2014 09:49 AM (xmQQR)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 20, 2014 09:49 AM (659DL)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: phreshone at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (Q6pxP)
Or TL
R- a heroine (rarely hero, but sometimes) who is utterly clueless. In a bad situation she's about as useful as a pogo stick in quicksand. She is gullible and falls for the most idiotic traps, repeatedly. And yet, she posesses a "glittery hoo-ha", so that when our hero (who is strong, smart, all the ladies drop their panties at his passing, etc) first takes a dip into said hoo-haa, he is completely blind to the girl's many faults and would do anything for her.
Go to the link for a better explanation.
(side note: weird when my blog worlds collide. I've been following this meltdown at SFWA for weeks now.)
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: HR at February 20, 2014 01:39 PM (ZKzrr)
And a PO Box and probably a PayPal account.
Got to make sure the important bases are covered!
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: P. C. naturalfake at February 20, 2014 09:50 AM (0cMkb)
Posted by: Dr Spank at February 20, 2014 09:51 AM (hn70M)
Posted by: Andrew Breitbart, reading comments (and motions) from heaven at February 20, 2014 09:51 AM (Wxdhz)
Posted by: Ian S. at February 20, 2014 09:51 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 09:52 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Dr Spank at February 20, 2014 09:53 AM (hn70M)
Or feminist.
Just thought I would throw that out there--before I completely stroke out.
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 01:52 PM (RJMhd)
Not feminist, because the supreme human being who could go to place where no woman could go, transmute the Water of Life and survive, was a male.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 09:54 AM (GQ8sn)
Take away teh bewbs, and ComiCon could be held in a 7-11 parking lot
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 09:54 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 20, 2014 09:55 AM (PYAXX)
At first they only boycotted businesses who were owned by Repub donors, but they ran out of those too fast. So then they called for boycotts of businesses who had an employee who had donated to the Repubs. The low point came when I saw on their FB page that they added a Christian bookstore to the list. The reason given? Because Christians are probably Republicans.
Over time, even the teacher true believers realized that politicizing local commerce to this extent was alienating even non-partisans to the point where they wanted nothing to do with them any more. And so it gradually died out. If you create a True-Con Business app, it will not just be used for the positive purpose of driving fellow travelers to those businesses. The left will use it to try and drive business away from those companies. So please, if you do this, I opt out. I am partisan. My business is not.
Posted by: Muad'dib at February 20, 2014 09:55 AM (sjdRT)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 09:55 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 01:48 PM (VtjlW)
If
F.U. McEvil
is not taken, that will be my pen name hencefortheth....
If it is taken, that I shall be-eth
S.T.F.U. McEvil
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 09:55 AM (kXoT0)
Take away teh bewbs, and ComiCon could be held in a 7-11 parking lot
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 01:54 PM (aTXUx)
Absolutely true.
Look at how women are drawn in comic books.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 09:56 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: redenzo at February 20, 2014 09:56 AM (WCnJW)
Posted by: thunderb at February 20, 2014 01:54 PM (zOTsN)
No
Posted by: The Jackhole at February 20, 2014 09:56 AM (nTgAI)
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at February 20, 2014 09:56 AM (Kksa8)
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 01:54 PM (aTXUx)
Behold the power of fully operational boobehs!
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 20, 2014 09:56 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: Ray Rice at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (PYAXX)
Guys power struggles are messy and stupid too, but have their own, different flavor.
That one was distinctly female.
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (J79eW)
Posted by: Roy at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (4Oa1/)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (HVff2)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 09:57 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: Nip Sip at February 20, 2014 09:58 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 09:58 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 20, 2014 01:56 PM (QFxY5)
They wanted a girl from House Atreides to marry off to House Harkonnen and mix both bloodlines to make a female Kwisatz Haderach that they could control as a Sister.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 09:58 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (kXoT0)
Because men in comic books are never drawn in an anatomically impossible manner.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Jean at February 20, 2014 09:59 AM (4JkHl)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 20, 2014 10:00 AM (HVff2)
This.
I gave up the Hollyweird habit a while back. Was and am glad of it.
However, others continue to watch the dreck. And observe its idiosyncrasies. I was struck by a comment from one of the Horde about how they had taken in several straight seasons of a TV crime drama set in Los Angeles, and how they had never previously realized how the vast majority of the crime in L.A. is being committed by pale hillbillies.
Of course, rural whites are acceptably Other-able in the view of media leftists and are thus approved for being made into boo-hiss stock baddies, even when the premise is inherently ridiculous.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 20, 2014 10:00 AM (gqT4g)
Posted by: The Vaginator at February 20, 2014 10:00 AM (FcR7P)
SHOCKINGLY, most of the people in the twat-waffle union have sold very few books. I think Scalzi is an exception. There's probably others, though the majority are hangers on who desperately want to be excepted as One Of The Gang.
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:00 AM (qWES6)
Leftism destroys everything, doesn't it?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 10:00 AM (POpqt)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (WZQdF)
My wife can do it. She uses the Voice.
And by the Voice, I mean she lifts up her shirt.
"Take out the recycling!"
"Ok!"
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: jwest at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (u2a4R)
Posted by: Buzzion at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (xmQQR)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 02:00 PM (POpqt)
----
Well... how else are they gonna remake everything in "their" image.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 20, 2014 10:01 AM (nELVU)
http://tinyurl.com/lmvca84
http://tinyurl.com/k5364zk
http://tinyurl.com/mppw3s5
http://tinyurl.com/l9tavcs
http://tinyurl.com/lzhyalk
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 10:02 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 10:02 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 20, 2014 10:02 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:02 AM (RJMhd)
Wiping the sweat from her brow, Charlie the Runner ran into her Eco-Dome to escape the fierce heat of global warming just as a Joshua Tree burst into flame.
"Hot today." she said to her life partner, Randy Annie.
"Hot everyday" growled Randy Annie "Thanks to Global Warming and the Dark Patriarchy Rising."
"Yes." hissed Charlie. She could feel her anger rising. Rising just like the Rising Dark Autarch's Rising Dark Patriarchy.
Suddenly, there was a knock at the entrance portal to the Eco-Dome...
GUESS I'M GONNA HAVE TO FINISH THIS MYSELF...
unnnnhhhh!
Posted by: FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (jjaLl)
Whedon has actually repeatedly denounced Mal's politics even though he co-created them. (Tim Minear, who was also involved and wrote a few episodes, has admitted to lurking at the HQ, so you aren't far off about Mal being a Moron).
Posted by: Ian S. at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: steevy at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (Kksa8)
Posted by: Ian S. at February 20, 2014 01:59 PM (B/VB5)
There are more variations in how male characters are drawn than female ones. 99% of female characters are busty, super-proportional bodies. Male characters run the gamut from super-steroid freaks to fat bastards.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: t-bird at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: zombie at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (+cx5n)
Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (5ikDv)
Posted by: D-Lamp at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (bb5+k)
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at February 20, 2014 10:03 AM (2buaQ)
Posted by: tangonine (Entropy sucks) at February 20, 2014 10:04 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Stuff the Bene Gesserit said at February 20, 2014 10:04 AM (NF2Bf)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 10:04 AM (IXrOn)
Now the trainer, trains you!
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 02:02 PM (RJMhd)
Her older sister must be an Adept because she drove her husband to flee to another state on the other side of the country.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:05 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 10:05 AM (Xdn8D)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:05 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at February 20, 2014 10:05 AM (5ikDv)
Posted by: D-Lamp at February 20, 2014 10:05 AM (bb5+k)
I say attempt, as I don't think it will go the way they think it will go, regardless how many police departments have military-style assault weapons and vehicles.
Posted by: Sharkman at February 20, 2014 10:06 AM (TM1p8)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:06 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 10:06 AM (IXrOn)
http://gawker.com/some-nude-college-girls-filmed-a-feminist-porno-in-colu-1515084075
again, not safe for work
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 0 at February 20, 2014 02:02 PM (IXrOn)
Frat Boys and Leisure Suit Larrys everywhere wish to encourage this assault on the patriarchy.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 10:06 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: TimothyJ at February 20, 2014 10:07 AM (ep2io)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 20, 2014 10:07 AM (PYAXX)
Is he still hetero?
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 02:06 PM (RJMhd)
Have not heard from him in over 8 years. Who knows?
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:07 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:07 AM (qyfb5)
You'll know the country is lost when comic book broads are drawn to resemble Janet Napalitano instead of Jessica Rabbit.
Then we're fucked.
Posted by: prescient11 at February 20, 2014 10:08 AM (tVTLU)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 10:08 AM (WHRca)
So, I gaily waded in to what I thought was a rational discussion on how and if Science Fiction should address the evils of racism. The poster's premise was that ALL science fiction would be improved by inclusion of racial disparities and racial tension, and naturally I defended the genre as something that had readily addressed racial issues in the past, but by no means would be improved by including racial issues in every single story (Yeah, " The Cold Equations" would totally be a better story if race had been injected...)
The discussion pretty much ended there as I was immediately hounded off the site as a knuckle dragging unrepentant racist.
So, F- Scalzi, his fanbois, and the leftist PC pricks who hang out at his site. Not to mention that in every book since OMW, Scalzi has let his leftist freak flag fly (I.e., he is pretty much a cookie cutter, non-imaginative Lefty, all the usual tropes, Global Warming, The Evils Of Capitalism, The glories of World Governance, etc., etc.)
I can guess which side of the petition Scalzi was on.
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 10:08 AM (1Rgee)
Posted by: garrett at February 20, 2014 02:08 PM (WHRca)
"Put your hand in the box."
"What's in the box?"
"Pain."
=O
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (GQ8sn)
Let us just presume mewling quim has been used and proceed for there.
I'll open with vapor ridden twat waffles.
RE: Hoyt's post, it does prove me view that nearly everything in life is better with some k-pop in it.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 01:37 PM (VtjlW)
*makes self comfortable*
Tea? Scones?
*flips through index card file of mix-and-match insults*
I'll see your "vapor-ridden twat waffles" and raise you "vaginal cavity burp flap crab farmers."
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (4df7R)
Sheesh.
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (BZAd3)
Zombie that is unreal! Do you have any say over who the galleys are sent to for blurbs?
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (POpqt)
<Ah, context. Thanks Jenny.
Posted by: Muad'dib at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (sjdRT)
Posted by: Sharkman at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (TM1p8)
Then we're fucked.
Speak for yourself!
Posted by: The New Head of the Fed, I forgot my name... at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (jjaLl)
OMW was interesting, but I did not want to read the rest of the series when I found out how the story went.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (GQ8sn)
-------------
Gollies I hope you didnÂ’t get what I managed to get New YearÂ’s Eve at NivenÂ’s party. Whatever my flu shots inoculated me for when I got them last fall, it wasnÂ’t this! Today out at Kaiser as I was getting the stitches removed from my face (yeah, another problem on top of the flu) I was told thereÂ’s a new flu shot I ought to get. I suspect itÂ’s for what I have, and they could make a vaccine out of my serum, but what the hell.
In any event I enjoyed your unique account. You canÂ’t possibly be the worst person in the world because you arenÂ’t a Rabid Weasel, and we have it on good SFWA officer authority that we Weasels are the worst people in the world and we should STFU and resign. So there. You canÂ’t be the worst person in the world.
Thanks for being around and IÂ’m glad you werenÂ’t too sick to do that.
Jerry Pournelle
Posted by: Dave in Fla at February 20, 2014 10:10 AM (ViC0h)
Total concentration on the task at hand. Not to mention that 'weirding' thing.
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 10:11 AM (1Rgee)
Posted by: WalrusRex at February 20, 2014 10:11 AM (XUKZU)
Fuck John Scalzi.
That is all.
Posted by: cool arrow at February 20, 2014 10:11 AM (Dqdyh)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 20, 2014 10:12 AM (oFCZn)
Posted by: Iblis at February 20, 2014 10:12 AM (9221z)
Reality is harsh.
Posted by: zombie at February 20, 2014 02:03 PM (+cx5n)
Ugh. Yea, a lot of that. This is how the left censors. They do it aggressively and instinctively.
They also know that right-minded folks tend to be less verbally confrontational. (in our heads, we call it "being polite") so they get away with it.
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:12 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: steevy at February 20, 2014 10:13 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 1 at February 20, 2014 10:13 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 20, 2014 10:14 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: WalrusRex at February 20, 2014 10:14 AM (XUKZU)
12: I'll open with vapor ridden twat waffles.
Heh!! Dammit! I wish I was a chick so I could use this in public. Since I don't want to be out of a job or sent to ze campz I guess won't.
Posted by: puddleglum at February 20, 2014 10:14 AM (cz2Zm)
Posted by: Hate Miser at February 20, 2014 10:14 AM (cDSCB)
Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 20, 2014 10:15 AM (hpgw1)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 10:15 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 1 at February 20, 2014 10:16 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: zombie at February 20, 2014 10:16 AM (+cx5n)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 1 at February 20, 2014 02:16 PM (IXrOn) <<<
No OT. No Shoot out. God willing.
Oh damn... so close to an empty net.
Posted by: Hate Miser at February 20, 2014 10:18 AM (cDSCB)
That is all.
Posted by: cool arrow at February 20, 2014 02:11 PM (Dqdyh)
Maybe, but his recent "Redshirts" was hilarious.
Posted by: Sharkman at February 20, 2014 10:19 AM (TM1p8)
Naked logical fallacy called Appeal to Experts. The exact and sole method of argument of your average dumbshit insisting that "GLOBAR WARMENING is gunna kill us all!!"
The nub of the contention is understood but sci-fi writers should know better than to use bullshit points in debate. Especially sci-fi writers.
Or mebbe it's just universal irony showing off.
Oh, and I guess I should thank Ms. Lackey for crossing herself off my list of writers to be read. Ass.
Posted by: weft cut-loop[/i] [/b] at February 20, 2014 10:19 AM (xrX4n)
Posted by: steevy at February 20, 2014 10:19 AM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:19 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: B at February 20, 2014 10:19 AM (twiRb)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:20 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: D-Lamp at February 20, 2014 10:20 AM (bb5+k)
Posted by: Muad'dib at February 20, 2014 10:21 AM (sjdRT)
I just barely managed to wade through it. Not worth the effort, IMO. YMMV.
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 10:21 AM (1Rgee)
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 02:08 PM (1Rgee)
Yep. Scalzi has been a vocal member of the Glittery Hoo-Haa brigade since the beginning. IIRC, he's the one who kicked out his opponent in the election for SFWA president after taking office. Yes, really.
If it makes you feel better, the exact same thing that happened to you also went down with Larry Correia a week or two ago. Except, in his case, someone was advocating that writers remove all gender from their writing, and he responded with a blog post explaining (in hilarious form) why that would be a really stupid idea.
Which earned him the title "Cismale Gendernormative Fascist" from the GHHes.
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:21 AM (qWES6)
Yeah, I'll second the recommendation there even though it kind of broke my brain towards the end. Good sci-fi has that effect though.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 20, 2014 10:21 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 10:22 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Kirk at February 20, 2014 10:22 AM (GBnWt)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:22 AM (RJMhd)
http://voxday.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 02:16 PM (POpqt)
I think the author needs to stop masturbating on his website re: ancient civilization and its supposed glory.
Got a news flash for the man; society was always full of fools. Back then, it was bloodier. Nowadays, it is PC. Is it PC because of women, or Marxism?
Marxism had its roots with a deadbeat husband/father, not a woman. The article is magnificent in its stupidity and self-gratification.
Where certain segments of society get this worship of ancient culture, as though the Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, or the British Empire were so glorious so as to survive the dustbin of history, I know not, but it is stupefying.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 20, 2014 10:23 AM (9LuAk)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 10:23 AM (VtjlW)
Fuck John Scalzi.That is all.
Posted by: cool arrow
Pretty much. He had one good book in him, even though the book was basically "The Forever War" with a different font.
Aside from that, everything else he's touched has been a mess.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 10:23 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 02:19 PM (qyfb5)
The only one that I know of (in the Sc-fi world) who isn't full of PC poopies is Baen.
They care about selling books and that's pretty much it.
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:24 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: ace at February 20, 2014 10:25 AM (/FnUH)
Damn That means I have to leave the hovel and self promote, and I hate that
Hello Amazon?
Posted by: Skandia Recluse at February 20, 2014 10:25 AM (YvEcU)
Pretty much. He had one good book in him, even though the book was basically "The Forever War" with a different font.
Aside from that, everything else he's touched has been a mess.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 02:23 PM (kdS6q)
-He's been accused of "borrowing" from other writers more than a few times.
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:25 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: ace at February 20, 2014 10:26 AM (/FnUH)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 20, 2014 10:26 AM (XCfYI)
Posted by: grognard at February 20, 2014 10:27 AM (/29Nl)
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at February 20, 2014 10:27 AM (Kksa8)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 10:27 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:27 AM (qyfb5)
To make matters tougher for a guy like me, the field is largely dominated by women as well. Female publishers, female editors, female agents. They are all looking for chick lit, strong female characters, womyn-centric stories, and grrl power teen fiction.
There are good people working in the field, people who don't let their politics warp their work but there are a lot who do, and they have a lot of power.
Oh, and get this: they constantly complain about how there aren't enough women in the field and that men dominate writing. Not enough girls being published.
I know this will get me Summers-ed for whispering it but maybe, just maybe, the reading public likes these male writers better. Just a possibility.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:28 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at February 20, 2014 10:28 AM (kxSZr)
Sci-fi and fantasy have long labored under the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, that they constituted a branch of children's literature. This suspicion no doubt sings. But children's literature does not become adult literature just because you throw in a "Socially Relevant Theme."
Frankly, that's how children think.
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” ― C.S. Lewis
Posted by: Saber Alter at February 20, 2014 10:28 AM (DNu5Y)
Read Old Man's War and stop after that.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:28 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 10:28 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: The Political Hat at February 20, 2014 10:29 AM (XvHmy)
Yes, and immaterial. That they are on the 'right' side of an argument is all the more reason to call it out.
It only takes one lone and unqualified individual to point out a wrong.
I fucking hate bullshit argumentation. I loath it when it is employed by our side.
Posted by: weft cut-loop[/i] [/b] at February 20, 2014 10:29 AM (xrX4n)
Posted by: irright at February 20, 2014 10:29 AM (pMGkg)
http://tinyurl.com/mnuz4qh
http://tinyurl.com/mlumc8p
http://tinyurl.com/mbt3zcd
http://tinyurl.com/kahugvg
http://tinyurl.com/logts2k
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 02:28 PM (aTXUx)
No way a guy drew those. No way at all.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:29 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 10:30 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 02:15 PM (VtjlW)
** Canst anyone play? **
Mercurial mons moaners
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 10:30 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: grognard at February 20, 2014 10:30 AM (/29Nl)
Posted by: Saber Alter at February 20, 2014 02:28 PM (DNu5Y)
I love that quote, it never gets old... the man was a visionary.
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 20, 2014 10:31 AM (9LuAk)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:31 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 10:31 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: grognard at February 20, 2014 02:30 PM (/29Nl)
It's almost like Starship Troopers in a way.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:31 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at February 20, 2014 10:31 AM (tK+t5)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:32 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 10:32 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 02:31 PM (7ObY1)
She thought TFG would pay her gas and mortgage too?
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:32 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 10:32 AM (7ObY1)
For something they wouldn't even have to sell were it not for you.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:33 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:33 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:34 AM (RJMhd)
I am no expert by any measure.
But I do like Heinlein's stuff.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:34 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 10:34 AM (7ObY1)
From the update: It's just that they're really trying to sell the idea that what redeems these frivolous four-color fantasias is that they occasionally Check That Box when it comes to trendy political (usually politically correct or left-leaning) thought.
I'm just gonna put in a shout out for David Mack's "Kabuki" series. Dude tackles serious issues, but not political issues. Art, identity, nature of the universe stuff. And the characters, good and evil, are really hot.
Also he is facile with multiple art styles, from manga to collage to painting, and uses the shift of medium to match the shifts in story.
Just saying that actual meaning in fantasy doesn't have to be crammed in with a pry bar.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 20, 2014 10:34 AM (A0sHn)
Anyway, I would add at the very end that good science fiction and fantasy is often *childlike* literature. Certainly not always, though it's what I aim for.
I'm not trying to settle major world issues or tell you how to live your life, I just want to tell you about this cool idea I had.
Christopher Taylor brings up a side angle to this as well, the industry has been at least as thoroughly "feminized" as education, largely because it's the same people (the crossover between writing and academia is high - at a recent NaNo I noticed about 8 of 30 people who worked in academia and another ten or so who were students).Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 02:31 PM (zfY+H)
Yes, I don't get why some authors want to piss me off to the point that I will never buy their future books. Most people in business kinda sorta know that if you make a big enough percentage of the buying public hate your facking guts, then, even if you get 100% of the folks left, you have blundered big time.
The other thing is today's cause celebre is tomorrow's faux pas.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (b6koZ)
Posted by: TenthJustice at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (qB8lN)
Posted by: Vin Weasel at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (iReEb)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: joncelli at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 20, 2014 10:35 AM (HVff2)
And we read sci fi to *escape* current events and political discussions (duh!).
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 10:36 AM (POpqt)
Sci-fi and fantasy have long labored under the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, that they constituted a branch of children's literature.
Posted by: Saber Alter
Ah, the "we're not Sci-Fi, we're SF! No, we're Speculative Fiction!" gutterfights of days past.
Of course, what happens is as soon as the genre claws it way up to some respectability as books for adults, then everyone starts writing plucky girl heroine YAs for the quick buck, because they want some of that sweet sweet Harry Potter cash them damned selves.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 10:36 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at February 20, 2014 02:15 PM (VtjlW)
** Canst anyone play? **
Mercurial mons moaners
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 20, 2014 02:30 PM (kXoT0)
I got one!
Volatile vulva vilifiers.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:37 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: irright at February 20, 2014 10:37 AM (8GKDa)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:37 AM (RJMhd)
Uhh..."Final Countdown"?
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:38 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:38 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, also known as MrCaniac at February 20, 2014 10:38 AM (HxSXm)
New Trek vs the older Trek's?
Yeah, that was me. I did not like JJ Abrams' new Trek at all.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:39 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: puddleglum at February 20, 2014 10:39 AM (cz2Zm)
Posted by: Spock at February 20, 2014 10:39 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:40 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Scott M at February 20, 2014 10:40 AM (AdBfq)
Posted by: grognard at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (/29Nl)
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 20, 2014 02:31 PM (9LuAk)
I like tossing it out every chance I get. I usually prefer using my own words, but when he expressed an idea with more wisdom than I'll ever have, well, I defer to the greater writer.
Posted by: Saber Alter at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (DNu5Y)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 20, 2014 02:36 PM (POpqt)
It's like you have to ask "Which part of 'fantasy fiction' do you not get?" with some people. And what is worse - they think they are the intelligent and insightful ones when they are only whiny and tiresome.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (hLRSq)
They're easy to hate, but clearly readers love it and they make good money. Olive Garden has the crappiest Italian food I've ever eaten but they make tons of money, and more power to them. Not everything has to be objectively great.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 20, 2014 02:31 PM (7ObY1)
Captain. sensors are picking up a massive schadenboner in our sector of the galaxy. Readings I've never seen before
Posted by: Spock at February 20, 2014 02:39 PM (aTXUx)
Must be looking for the missing humpbacked whales.
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 10:41 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:42 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, also known as MrCaniac at February 20, 2014 10:42 AM (HxSXm)
========
All my Sci-Fi is high-brow shit.
Like Cowboys and Aliens I watched last night.
Or Ancient Aliens I watch whenever I scan by . . . .
(ONT I quit watching Lost Girl on account of always pushing the lesbo shit. Break out the double-ended dildo for gawd's sake already.)
Posted by: RoyalOil at February 20, 2014 10:42 AM (VjL9S)
Posted by: t-bird at February 20, 2014 10:43 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Scott M at February 20, 2014 02:40 PM (AdBfq)
Oooh... swing and miss!
Posted by: Book at February 20, 2014 10:43 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:43 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 02:31 PM (zfY+H)
I have a rule i follow assiduously after being burned too many times. I f a book mentions Global Warming" or any related environmental disaster, upset, or catastrophe, I toss it out immediately.
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 10:43 AM (1Rgee)
My fantasy novel is about water elementals attacking Texas because fracking is destroying the ozone layer and the seas are rising up in fury! Its urban fantasy like Dresden Chronicles, but not fun or readable. DAMN YOU I WILL BE HEARD!!!!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:44 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:44 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: kbdabear at February 20, 2014 10:44 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: Paul Zummo at February 20, 2014 10:44 AM (Ud5vq)
Posted by: thunderb at February 20, 2014 10:45 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: tasker at February 20, 2014 10:46 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 20, 2014 10:46 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Votermom at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (GSIDW)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Keith Olbermann at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (Kksa8)
Posted by: irright
Authority exists. Authorities can help in finding data, raw facts. However, if one uses *status* as the predicate to an argument, one loses. That's the only point of pointing out the logical fallacy.
Which is to say, I need to find a fucking hobby. And if that dog doesn't stop barking, I'm going to look up recipes.
Posted by: weft cut-loop[/i] [/b] at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (xrX4n)
My fantasy novel is about water elementals attacking Texas because fracking is destroying the ozone layer and the seas are rising up in fury! Its urban fantasy like Dresden Chronicles, but not fun or readable. DAMN YOU I WILL BE HEARD!!!!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 02:44 PM (zfY+H)
Sonofabeech, I think i read that one before I started strictly applying said rule.....
Oh, yeah, second part of rule is that the author goes on my blacklist.
Posted by: West at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (1Rgee)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:47 AM (IXrOn)
I prefer sudden death to shoot outs
I opposed all shoot outs all the time in all sports until last Saturday. Why play a game for 60 or 90 minutes and then when you can't settle things switch to a different game?
Then Oshie vs. Russkies made me a hypocrite.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 20, 2014 10:48 AM (A0sHn)
There was a time during 2003-2006 that every book about modern events HAD to be about an evil oppressive government using the DHS to tyrannize private citizens, trample on civil rights, and brutalize the law. Cop books, detective books, suspense novels, they just around the bend.
None of it was remotely valid, but who cares, they had a point to make about BOOOOOSH!!!!!1!1!!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:48 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: thunderb at February 20, 2014 10:48 AM (zOTsN)
I read SF voraciously as a child but rarely read science fiction any more even though one of my fiction credits is co-authorship of a science fiction novel (available for sale here: http://tinyurl.com/lgycto5). I rarely read for enjoyment anymore, just for the sheer fun of it. With lots of personal projects and life stuff going on, there's just no time and I can feel the lack.
Anyway, color me unsurprised that a writer's organization has taken a decidedly Stalinist turn. PEN went that route decades ago. Fine Arts were co-opted by the Left even before that.
As a great man once said, 'Politics is downstream of culture.' Control the arts and you shape the culture. Shape the culture and--along with dominance and de facto control of media--you can manipulate the public into thinking, doing, feeling what you want them to think, do, and feel.
We don't want the political to be personal. However, what we want and what is (and what will be) are entirely different things.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 10:49 AM (O66NZ)
And speaking of politics in SF. Note that David Gerrold is a signer of that petition.
Read a number of his works back in the day, met him at book signings. Never picked up that he was gay. Even though he got into a well know dust-up with the Star Trek TNG suits over an AIDS analogy script he wanted to do. Just assusmed he was a writer exploring an idea, rather than someone pushing an agenda.
Which is how professionals should act.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 10:49 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette: USA 2 Canada 2 at February 20, 2014 10:50 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Count de Monet at February 20, 2014 10:50 AM (BAS5M)
Posted by: Votermom at February 20, 2014 10:50 AM (GSIDW)
Logical fallacies aren't necessarily wrong. Its an ad hominem fallacy to call your opponent a hapless poltroon, but that may very well be true.
Its a fallacy because it is offered in the place of an actual argument that supports your position. Simply saying "an expert agrees with me" doesn't actually defend your point. Its a substitute for an argument not an actual argument.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:51 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 10:52 AM (qyfb5)
Posted by: Count de Monet at February 20, 2014 02:50 PM (BAS5M
That requires talent and hard work, something hacks are never interested in.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - KaBoom- The Cereal of Settling Now at the Outrage Outlet at February 20, 2014 10:55 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: jwest at February 20, 2014 10:55 AM (u2a4R)
In the writing group I am in I try to gently nudge eager young writers to avoid jamming their politics and modern trendy topics du lefty into their stories. Why?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
Example, Chris Farnsworth's President's Vampire series. Entertaining take on the trope, *cough* Hellboy *cough* and well written. But damn, he shoehorns in Evil Kinda President Bush and Noble Pretty Much President Obama to pull you right out of the story.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 10:56 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 10:57 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: blaster at February 20, 2014 10:57 AM (4+AaH)
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2014 10:57 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at February 20, 2014 10:57 AM (0KmDt)
. . . because men should spank women when they need it . . .
Yes, yes, you must spank all of us. And after the spanking, the oral sex!
Posted by: Zoot at February 20, 2014 10:59 AM (BAS5M)
Posted by: eman at February 20, 2014 10:59 AM (a4lq6)
Posted by: ace at February 20, 2014 11:01 AM (/FnUH)
Posted by: jwest at February 20, 2014 11:01 AM (u2a4R)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 20, 2014 11:02 AM (MUZDl)
Posted by: eman at February 20, 2014 02:59 PM (a4lq6)
No one's done that before!
Posted by: EC at February 20, 2014 11:02 AM (GQ8sn)
Few things annoy me more than the super girl character that delivers some zinger and all the guys stand around going "wow, what a Womyn!" Its so obviously staged and fake. And, to use the old feminist reversal technique: if a guy did it, usually it would result in screaming and fingernail scratches.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:03 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Chef Obama at February 20, 2014 11:04 AM (aTXUx)
Which is weird, because he's one of the people who got rooked by the Clinton PAC a few years back.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:05 AM (zfY+H)
Few things annoy me more than the super girl character that delivers some zinger and all the guys stand around going "wow, what a Womyn!" Its so obviously staged and fake. And, to use the old feminist reversal technique: if a guy did it, usually it would result in screaming and fingernail scratches.
I've done it for 20 plus years on film.
Posted by: Bond . . . James Bond at February 20, 2014 11:06 AM (BAS5M)
@160 I can guess which side of the petition Scalzi was on.
------------------
Scalzi's currently head of the SWFA. Some of the comments I've seen indicate that part of the reason for the current nonsense is that Scalzi hasn't been fulfilling his oversight responsibilities to reign in the current nonsense. Additionally, it's been suggested that he's allowing it all to continue in order to avoid calling attention to his lack of responsibility.
Posted by: junior at February 20, 2014 11:08 AM (UWFpX)
And there's always the possibility that he sees no problem here.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:10 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 20, 2014 11:11 AM (MUZDl)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 11:11 AM (qyfb5)
Hey, Scifi Writers, here is a suggestion for a new book. It's about a society that burns books.
Posted by: eman
No, They burn books, but only books by WOMEN.
Wait, I think I can actually sell that one. A dystopian that is so evillll and sexist that it destroys all artwork by women to oppress them.
But one plucky girl inherits a books from her grandmother or finds an abandoned library or something, and --- um -- uses it as the foundation to over-though society or something.
Don't steal this, I want to buy a house.
(c) ) (c) (c)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 20, 2014 11:13 AM (kdS6q)
At the start of Australian author Birmingham's stellar debut novel, a United Nations battle group, clustered around the U.S.S. Hillary Clinton (named after "the most uncompromising wartime president in the history of the United States")
There is now WAY I could read this.
Posted by: Patrick Fom Ohio at February 20, 2014 11:13 AM (b6koZ)
Posted by: Nicholson in As Good As It Gets at February 20, 2014 11:17 AM (A/lC4)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 11:23 AM (qyfb5)
***
I can easily see Hillary as a battleship. Or axe.
Posted by: B at February 20, 2014 11:27 AM (twiRb)
Few things annoy me more than the super girl character that delivers some zinger and all the guys stand around going "wow, what a Womyn!" Its so obviously staged and fake. And, to use the old feminist reversal technique: if a guy did it, usually it would result in screaming and fingernail scratches.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 03:03 PM (zfY+H)
Depends on what you're writing. If you're writing in the fantasy genre then who gives a damn if the action chick heroine is equipped with superpowers AND a great rack AND a rocket scientist intellect? It's fantasy.
All genre writing is 'staged and fake'. It's pure make-believe. The only thing that matters is the internal logic of the story and the external logic of the plot: would characters behave and talk the way they behave and talk given the constraints of setting and situation placed upon them?
Hearing genre writers kvetch about this or that seemingly insurmountable problem is a laugh, and it's especially funny when they talk about coaching other writers new to the field. Here's the deal: no one changes in a genre novel. It's all about the plot, and all the plot does is move the readers to the desired destination, the big payoff, where the hero gets the girl or whatever the hell the McGuffin is in that story.
Don't get me wrong: some genre stuff is worthwhile, even life-changing. However, 99% of genre fiction (and contemporary mainstream fiction for that matter), is just page-turning diversion, with most of it crap. Science fiction writers stand out only because they happen to be the clubbiest, noisiest, and most clique-ish of the bunch.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 11:28 AM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at February 20, 2014 11:31 AM (klGLB)
They're actually not that bad despite a lot of PC, anti-Hoover, etc. crap. It's an interesting what-if with a bunch of well I wouldn't have done it that way but ok situations.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at February 20, 2014 11:31 AM (DL2i+)
And just consider President Gore's reaction to 9/11; a good case can be made for a likely scenario of a couple of nuke strikes on Afghanistan and calling it a day. Gore was a major hawk before he got into the climate cult.
And LBJ in Vietnam? Carpet bombing, Agent Orange, napalming villages, 'hey hey LBJ how many kids did you kill today?'
Lefty Democrats seem very comfortable with killing anybody that really gives them grief on a very large scale.
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at February 20, 2014 11:32 AM (DLu2s)
This is a great post...great Original Topic and excellent comments as well.
*claps furiously*
Kbdabear should get some sort of Award for all those links to SciFi Boob Art.
Posted by: wheatie at February 20, 2014 11:33 AM (DEUoo)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 11:34 AM (5xmd7)
Fine see if I care ever again!!
There is another dynamic to this schism that one SFWA rule promotes. If an author gets three stories published in magazines, does not matter what type of magazine IIRC, just as long as it meets SFWA guidelines, that person can become a member.
Meanwhile if you have only written novels, even best selling ones, in this broad genre, you can't become a member of the SFWA.
So you got hot house writers churning away stuff that no one reads who are members while the likes of David Weber aren't.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 20, 2014 11:36 AM (QDvfw)
Posted by: --- at February 20, 2014 11:37 AM (MMC8r)
And...Yes!...the leftists have inserted their political views into everything.
No wait, I should say "have inserted their unified political views into everything".
Because variation is not permitted.
They have become more fanatical about it than the worst villains that are portrayed in their novels.
They have become that which they rail against as 'evil'.
Posted by: wheatie at February 20, 2014 11:39 AM (DEUoo)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 11:44 AM (qyfb5)
When was "Ender's Game" written?
I agree, though, not much good has come out for decades. Fantasy is in the same rut though, lots of utter crap and gigantic epic 9-part blah.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:46 AM (zfY+H)
Just glad am not in one of the local writer groups. About fourteen members. Including two who are published romance novelists. And they in the group are trading via email 5,000 word story snippets and expecting the others to help them with the writing.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 20, 2014 11:47 AM (QDvfw)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 20, 2014 11:48 AM (qyfb5)
I think a lot of people have this idea of fantasy, and I suppose there's a place for ridiculous nonsense fantasy. I mean, comic books are silly fun - or at least they used to be before everyone became so grim and angry and brutal all the time.
But fantasy isn't a total suspension of all plausibility and reason, its the addition of something different and implausible, then rendered in a believable manner.
At least, it should be. Conan wasn't invincible in a loin cloth in the books. He wore armor and got hammered and beat up and lost and jailed. It was the challenges he overcame, not his continuous superman powers to demolish everything in sight.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:49 AM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 20, 2014 11:50 AM (yT22V)
Posted by: --- at February 20, 2014 11:56 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 11:56 AM (zfY+H)
http://minx.cc/?post=336328
Posted by: HR at February 20, 2014 11:56 AM (ZKzrr)
In the fantasy genre, Elizabeth Moon in the Paksenarrion books serves up believable characters struggling with doubts, enemies, and just day to day things. Good gosh in the first book of The Deed of Paksenarrion, Paks the main character is spelled, assaulted, bruised, tossed into jail, and almost expelled until the real culprits are found. And they are found not by magic but solid detective work by her sergeant.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 20, 2014 11:59 AM (QDvfw)
But fantasy isn't a total suspension of all plausibility and reason, its the addition of something different and implausible, then rendered in a believable manner.
At least, it should be. Conan wasn't invincible in a loin cloth in the books. He wore armor and got hammered and beat up and lost and jailed. It was the challenges he overcame, not his continuous superman powers to demolish everything in sight.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 03:49 PM (zfY+H)
There's a reason why people get their crazy, wacky, zany notions about fantasy being, you know, fantasy. Because it's fantasy. Not real. Does not pertain to the real world. Whether a story is perceived as silly nonsense fantasy depends entirely upon the author's skill and intent. Could be he or she wants to write silly nonsense fantasy. The late, great Douglas Adams did all right with silly nonsense fantasy, for example, and good for him.
I did note that a story, however fantastical, had to be internally and externally consistent to plot, character and milieu. It has to be in order to suspend disbelief. Creating that little bubble of suspended belief and immersing the reader into the story is what it's all about.
I'm not denigrating genre fiction, although I can't help but be a little sarcastic about the pretensions assumed by some of its practitioners. I am saying that genre fiction comes with built-in limitations that (counterintuitively) do not so constrain mainstream, literary fiction.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 12:03 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 20, 2014 12:04 PM (2xMFK)
Posted by: sixoh1 at February 20, 2014 12:07 PM (RQocz)
None of these break the basic requirements of good writing by being in a certain genre. And like Anna Puma points out: if your main character is invincible, its boring and your book sucks. Even if its a girl, and even if its a fantasy.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 12:08 PM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 04:08 PM (zfY+H)
I've heard that 'it's all genre fiction' argument countless times, and it's an argument invariably made by people writing or championing a particular kind of genre fiction. However passionate you may feel about it, passion does not equal truth, and the truth is that genre novels--science fiction, mysteries, and so on--are always--always--driven by plot and bound by the conventions of the genre. Your argument only works if you include 'literary fiction' as a genre, but then you've muddied the word 'genre' to encompass all fiction everywhere, and so have negated the purpose of the word in the first place.
I have a favorite short story, written by Carson McCullers, entitled 'Madame Zilensky and the King of Finland'. It's a good example of straight-up, mainstream, literary fiction, the kind I consider not genre fiction. That little story reveals more truth about the human condition than anything ever written by any past and current member of the SFWA, and it doesn't rely on space ships or murder victims or femme fatales or anything else not found in the day to day life of the narrator, a college professor convinced his colleague is a phony.
No, not all fiction is genre fiction. That's a rationalization employed by hacks to reconcile their aspirations with their abilities.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 12:31 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 20, 2014 12:31 PM (9eDbm)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 01:20 PM (5xmd7)
Posted by: bleck at February 20, 2014 01:23 PM (b6Qog)
Posted by: random thought generator at February 20, 2014 01:33 PM (Rpc5w)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 05:20 PM (5xmd7)
I'm a big Heinlein fan. His novel, 'Starship Troopers' (not to be confused with the Verhoeven film of the same name), was one of the reasons I became a paratrooper, believe it or not. But no, Heinlein was not a heavy hitter in purely literary terms, as any reading of the truly awful 'Time Enough For Love' would demonstrate. Good God, that was a bad book.
Heinlein was/is the science fiction equivalent of Louis L'Amour: great characters, interesting stories, and often perceptive insights. But a great American literary figure equal to, say, William Faulkner or Flannery O'Connor or Mark Twain? Nope. And, to his credit, I think Heinlein would agree.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 01:41 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: DrDrill at February 20, 2014 02:20 PM (sOFZs)
Posted by: Jamie Wilson at February 20, 2014 02:40 PM (u+7Y6)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 02:53 PM (5xmd7)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 06:53 PM (5xmd7)
I like Heinlein, but come on: 'Huckleberry Finn' is, in fact, as great a novel as likely ever to come out of the United States. Nothing Heinlein's written comes close. 'Stranger in a Strange Land'? Trendy and fun but not exactly as earth-shatteringly transcendent as Heinlein fans like to proclaim. 'Starship Troopers'? A good idea novel exploring the nature of citizenship and responsibility in a free society. These are (worthwhile and well-written) entertainments, nothing more.
Don't even get me started on Faulkner. He was a big discovery for me when I first read his novels as a kid and didn't know fiction could be that fine.
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 03:51 PM (O66NZ)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 04:38 PM (5xmd7)
Posted by: troyriser at February 20, 2014 06:29 PM (ptcFO)
You don't want me to get cranky!
Posted by: Sarah Hoyt at February 20, 2014 06:51 PM (CQklY)
You don't want me to get cranky!
Posted by: Sarah Hoyt at February 20, 2014 06:51 PM (CQklY)
Posted by: dagmar krauss at February 20, 2014 07:49 PM (NGd12)
Every book is. All books are in genres. All books follow patterns and rules. All books - literary or not - are working within a genre, whether War and Peace, The Cherry Orchard, Lord of the Rings, Treason's Harbor, or A Tale of Two Cities.
That's just a fact. You just happen to like some genres more than others and therefore consider them superior. That's fine, like what you want, but don't act like the stuff you do not care for is lesser for it. A historical novel set in 1870 New Mexico is no less literature or more genre for its setting than one set in 1870s Russia or 1920s France.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 20, 2014 08:24 PM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 20, 2014 09:52 PM (M33Mf)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 21, 2014 12:24 AM (zfY+H)
Nope, sorry. Yours is the talentless hack argument made by talentless hacks. All writers who make that argument are doing so defensively.
Posted by: troyriser at February 21, 2014 06:20 AM (2jF2B)
One more thing, Taylor: I'm not denigrating genre fiction. I've written the stuff. Twice a year I get royalty checks from a small publishing house in London and get a big kick out of cashing checks in British pounds in my small town Indiana bank. However, I don't flatter myself in thinking my little science fiction novel is in the same class or category as truly great fiction written by truly great writers.
In painting and sculpture, there's a thing called 'elevation', that feeling of transcendence and closeness to God (or the World Soul or whatever) evoked in a person experiencing great art. Think Sistine Chapel, for example. It is the mental, spiritual, emotional state to which all great art aspires. Art that aims to entertain or offer sucrease from the stress of day-to-day life is not great art, and occupies a separate but distinct category from that which aims higher.
I just can't make it any plainer.
Posted by: troyriser at February 21, 2014 07:03 AM (2jF2B)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 21, 2014 01:52 AM (M33Mf)
Raymond Chandler rocks. So does James M. Cain.
Posted by: troyriser at February 21, 2014 07:09 AM (2jF2B)
Bleah. Plus que ca change.
Posted by: Sarah Hoyt at February 21, 2014 08:17 AM (CK4Et)
Posted by: Tim Kyger at February 21, 2014 01:07 PM (7jRKh)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 21, 2014 05:08 PM (5xmd7)
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Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at February 20, 2014 09:31 AM (BcCwi)