Ace of Spades HQ

January 11, 2014

"Compassionate Conservatism" ... Kill It With Fire!
— andy

Ben Domenech's "compassionate conservatism" piece at The Federalist is a good read. It begins with a takedown of Michael Gerson and Peter Wehner's renewed call for slightly smaller big government, since we apparently didn't learn the lesson of how poorly this works during the GWB years.

As you can see, though, Gerson and Wehner have identified the real cause of our problems:

Â“One of the main problems with an unremittingly hostile view of government Â— held by many associated with the tea party, libertarianism and Â“constitutionalismÂ” Â— is that it obscures and undermines the social contributions of a truly conservative vision of government. Politics requires a guiding principle of public action.Â”
Â“For popular liberalism, it is often the rule of good intentions: If it sounds good, do it. Social problems can be solved by compassionate, efficient regulation and bureaucratic management Â— which is seldom efficient and invites unintended consequences in complex, unmanageable systems (say, the one-sixth of the U.S. economy devoted to health care). The signal light for government intervention is stuck on green. For libertarians and their ideological relatives, the guiding principle is the maximization of individual liberty. It is a theory of government consisting mainly of limits and boundaries. The light is almost always red.Â” (emphasis added)

According to these guys, if you're reading this blog, you are the problem.

You want a government of limits and boundaries? Are you nuts?

I really wish Gerson and Wehner would have the courage to admit that this worldview isn't appreciably different than that of the left. Although they mouth the right words against it to frame their argument, deep down they're fine with the basic structure of the left's governing vision (i.e., centralized control over every aspect of your life, for your own good) and their main differentiator appears to be that "conservatives" like them will use this unbounded power benevolently, while the left will go to extremes. Vote for Conservative Brand™ Big Government and all your problems will be solved!

James Madison (old dead white guy, demonstrably constitutionalist, fan of the original tea party) eloquently stated the real issue that eludes big government fanbois like Gerson and Wehner, who threw some quotes from the Federalist Papers into their essay but strangely missed this one.

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

Gerson and Wehner fail to grasp that second part. What they call "compassionate conservatism", I call "laying the groundwork for left's lawless SuperState". Madison was smart enough to know that you can't depend on "angels" like Gerson and Wehner to govern you, so you'd better focus on guarding against the devil ...

... which makes for an awkward segue to Marco Rubio (R-Amnesty), but I'm going to do it anyway.

... Senator Marco RubioÂ’s proposal this week for an anti-poverty reform agenda is a useful example of the problem these compassionate conservative assumptions run into when you attempt to put them into practice. While consolidation and block-granting are all well and good, Rubio doesnÂ’t stop there:

Â“Mr. Rubio will also propose Wednesday to replace the Earned Income Tax Credit, which was used by 28 million tax payers in 2011, with a new Â“wage enhancementÂ” system that directs federal money towards supplementing the income of people who work in Â“qualifying low-income jobs.Â”
RubioÂ’s motivations here are noble, and almost certainly pass GersonÂ’s Â“public goodÂ” test: wage stagnation is indeed a problem, and the EITC is a warped system which has racked up a roughly 25% fraud percentage over the past decade. But think for a moment about what heÂ’s proposing here: a future of long fights over what a Â“qualifying low-income jobÂ” is, a definition ripe for unions to exploit under future Democratic administrations. And letÂ’s not even get started on the audits and oversight. I thought that limited government advocates would want to get government out of businesses, not further integrating them. ...

To the left, ever to the left, never to the right, always to the left ...

This is how the "ratchet" works, and Rubio just lurches from disappointment to disappointment on these issues. And it's not just him ... the GOP as a whole hasn't exactly been a bulwark against the creeping advance of statism.

We'll be hearing a lot about "income inequality" in the runup to the 2014 midterms, since that's apparently what the Democrats want to talk about instead of Obamacare. You can rest assured that "solutions" to this non-problem offered by the GOP will reflexively leap in the direction of "compassion" and not in the direction of STOP!

Come to think of it, I'm really not sure what Gerson and Wehner are complaining about. Their wing of the party has pretty much gotten what it wants at every turn, and look at all we have to show for it.

Posted by: andy at 11:00 AM | Comments (233)
Post contains 882 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Ratchet to the left. Nicely put.

Posted by: Sphynx at January 11, 2014 11:04 AM (OZmbA)

2 Stop indeed. Even the discussion of income equality is ridiculous. We now openly call for crap that in the past was rightly shouted down as communism. Or any other crank ideology you could name.

Posted by: Pfffffffttttttt at January 11, 2014 11:08 AM (A98Xu)

3 The income inequality between 2004 garrett and 20014 garrett is unacceptable.

Posted by: garrett at January 11, 2014 11:09 AM (q3g5v)

4 "Income inequality?" Oooh, goody. That's my favorite topic too. They can make my income equal to Bill Gates'. Thanx.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 11, 2014 11:10 AM (0HooB)

5 If the answer to every problem or even most problems is the SS SuperState I am gonna vote democrat.

What Dr. Pants Crease Appraiser wants is the power to be referee. His judgement was Obama is t3h aw3som3 still unretracted.

Hey Dave howsabout you be a fucking Republican before you fix the fucking Republican party asshole?

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:11 AM (TE35l)

6 {Ahem} Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

Posted by: George Washington at January 11, 2014 11:12 AM (sdi6R)

7 I honestly don't see myself voting again in the near future. Or in the far future. The only candidates out there espouse Liberalism, more Liberalism, and even more Liberalism.

I say it's voting for Liberals, and I say the hell with it.

Posted by: Null at January 11, 2014 11:13 AM (P7hip)

8 I mean for the love of God TIBERIUS CAESAR understood you can't have unlimited power and rely on men to be angels as Augustus strove for.

"Trust us we'll make Obamacare work!"

Fuck you progressive Republicans.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:13 AM (TE35l)

9 "Wage enhancement"?! Sweet Anubis' flea collar.

Look, I'm sorry you're incapable of contributing $20/hr worth of value to your employer, but you're contributing $0/hr worth of value to the rest of us, there's no reason we should be paying you for anything.

Posted by: HR at January 11, 2014 11:14 AM (hO8IJ)

10 9 HR at January 11, 2014 03:14 PM (hO8IJ)

"because freedom"

"because justice"

//F$A Sub Altern Laquisha Largesse

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:15 AM (TE35l)

11
Compassionate Conservatism = Just The Tip Socialism/Social Engineering

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:15 AM (gYIst)

12 The last election was my last time voting for anyone. Totally burned out.

Posted by: backhoe at January 11, 2014 11:15 AM (ULH4o)

13 12 backhoe at January 11, 2014 03:15 PM (ULH4o)+

Sans Amnesty I'll vote in '14...sans Christie or Crist or any of Obama's pet GOP I'll vote in 16...

but I am done pulling the lever for communist lite...

there is no such thing their bullshit all winds up in tyranny.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:17 AM (TE35l)

14
Do you know I really resent 'compassionate conservatism'?

Because the phrase implies that conservatism is merciless.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:18 AM (gYIst)

15 Compassionate conservatism: no more than three concentration camps.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 11:18 AM (E+uky)

16 Gerson must think long term planning is ordering lunch. This slightly smaller spending path still leads to huge government entitlement spending and a military the size of the Coast Guard. No disrespect to the Coast Guard.

Posted by: Smilin' Jack at January 11, 2014 11:20 AM (Xzj0B)

17
Plus, the Left has exhausted a lot of energy conflating conservatism with capitalism.

Phrases such as 'compassionate conservatism' only help cement that false perception.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:20 AM (gYIst)

18 14 soothsayer at January 11, 2014 03:18 PM (gYIst)

It is a slap at Ronald Reagan and Dubya would need to stand on the Empire State Building to kiss Ragan's ass and he was the BEST of the "Compassion Corps"

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:20 AM (TE35l)

19 15 WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 03:18 PM (E+uky)

They wanted Stalin

They settled for Kruschev

They got Brezhnev

Huntsman 2016

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:22 AM (TE35l)

20 All these people scheming away. Making plans, left and right. I wish I could articulate better the way I view things, that is, Good enough is good enough. Localize government more than downsize it, though the latter I think can be inferred from the former. People have the right to be stupid in their polity and make bad choices. The goal, as I see it, is to limit the reach of that stupidity. Shit happens and the best we can hope for is to muddle through. Expecting things to work perfectly if we could just get the rules right, and then spending our time in constant and violent arguments about what those rules should be, is a problem with all sides in this argument.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:22 AM (QupBk)

21 Speaking of senseless: compassionate conservatism.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 11:23 AM (E+uky)

22 Communism is the abolition of private property. Fascism is state control of private property. Compassionate conservatism is paternal scolding about your private property.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at January 11, 2014 11:23 AM (Gf8ao)

23 The only way to find how how much government is too little is too bring the power and reach of government to as close to zero as possible. Wait a few centuries and then increase the power and reach of government as experience suggests.

Posted by: eman at January 11, 2014 11:23 AM (AO9UG)

24 Vote for Conservative BrandÂ™ Big Government and all your problems will be solved! Yep, as I've said before, in England the "conservatives" merely claim that they can administer the NHS better than the liberals. At no point do they ever argue for abolition.

Posted by: rickl at January 11, 2014 11:23 AM (sdi6R)

25 20 toby928Â© at January 11, 2014 03:22 PM (QupBk)

Devolution to local rule at least enables the punishment of the person who torments you if inclined without "destroying the ozone."

The Federal Government is destroying the ability of people to earn a living with its stupid top heavy alphabet rules generating societies.

Devolve power.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:24 AM (TE35l)

26

ah, yes, toby, the Central Planners

bullwhips cracking...screaming...running..

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:24 AM (gYIst)

27 The problem Andy is that there are too few conservatives in the Republican Party to get anything real done. We though Rubio was one but he sold out on amnesty. Now the entire party leadership i selling out on amnesty and it looks like they are actually going to advertise doing what we have been complaining about.

They believe in socialism as well, just not as far left as the Dems. So ultimatley what happens is the Dems get control and pass some more socialism. The Repubcicans come and shift their stance to the left so they will not get as many curses from the MFM. So the Dems shift their policies even further to the left.

Indeed, the Democrat platform is now identical to the Communist Party platform of a few years ago.

Glenn Beck calls this the Overton Window, and he is right. It has shift continuously to the left since the progressive era started.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 11, 2014 11:24 AM (T2V/1)

28 >>>What they call "compassionate conservatism", I call "laying the groundwork for left's lawless SuperState".<<<

I'm pretty sure it's an unchecked proliferation of crack smoking Canaliens from the Great White North, eh?

Posted by: Fritz at January 11, 2014 11:25 AM (UzPAd)

29 The donks are the true fiscal conservatives. Name one executive on team R that can take credit for budget cuts anything like Detroit this year.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at January 11, 2014 11:25 AM (kxSZr)

30
btw, toby, did you ever see CRANK (2006)?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:26 AM (gYIst)

31 Compassionate conservatism: less freedom, more equality.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 11:26 AM (E+uky)

32 29 SpongeBobSaget at January 11, 2014 03:25 PM (kxSZr)

Joker 2016 Burning It All Down Is Fair!

paid for by citizens for Occupy Wall Street

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:26 AM (TE35l)

33 I hate Bush! Bush lied and I lost my job over 5 years ago and haven't found one since. I have a High School Diploma, but employers told me that was OK but you need more education. This is stooped and all because Bush lied about our Black President.

Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at January 11, 2014 11:26 AM (iB0Q2)

34 It's too late. "Compassionate Conservatism" has already won.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:27 AM (Wp8ly)

35
"Last Vegas" is available for DL, btw
Do Not Want

As is Captain Phillips. Do Not Want.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:27 AM (gYIst)

36 If they take your money to redistribute they have confiscated your property. Or your ability to pay and own it.

Posted by: Pfffffffttttttt at January 11, 2014 11:27 AM (A98Xu)

37 Madison's 'if men were angels' phrase is, in my view, the single most eloquent political statement in history.

Posted by: Seamus at January 11, 2014 11:27 AM (/UivR)

38 Rubio sounds like he got his ideas from a Rolling Stone op-ed.

Posted by: --- at January 11, 2014 11:27 AM (MMC8r)

39 The donks are the true fiscal conservatives. Name one executive on team R that can take credit for budget cuts anything like Detroit this year. - And they're getting ready to Detroit New York.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 11:28 AM (wOWPb)

40 34 Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 03:27 PM (Wp8ly)

It is a lot like the show life goes on.

The GOP signaling to America that Corky Bush was okay mainstreamed the idea that handing keys to Derp Ogabe was permissible as well.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:28 AM (TE35l)

41 Devolve power. It's my one guiding light. Take abortion for instance. If we would go back to a states rights pov, we would have free states and slave states, just like 1972. I would feel sad for the feti in Massechusetts but little more than I would about the ones in France. Moreover, with a state, if a city wanted to zone abortion clinics out of town, I think they should be able to that as well, or pass Blue Laws, or create a red light district or whatever. Right choices, wrong choices, big or little. People will vote with their feet.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:28 AM (QupBk)

42 Our Founding Fathers understood that government is a necessary evil. That's why they created a system of LIMITED government.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at January 11, 2014 11:29 AM (5fSr7)

43 People like what they like, and dislike what they don't. Let's roll with that.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:29 AM (QupBk)

44 You have nothing to fear from Obama in the White House

Posted by: John McShitty - real Republican at January 11, 2014 11:29 AM (T2V/1)

45 Proposing a "big government" solution that is not as great an empowerment of government, with further proposals limiting that power, towards the ultimate goal of limited government, is a plausible strategy and mirrors that used by the Left. But we have no one that can be trusted to do it. The not-as-bad "big government" solution just becomes more fodder for the Left. The alternate method, of outright fighting for limited government is becoming less and less popular as society is fundamentally transformed into one of dependency. Solution? SMOD

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 11, 2014 11:30 AM (AymDN)

46 You people need to shut the fuck up. You have no idea how things work or how to govern. We have a surefire plan: Christie/Bush 2016

Posted by: GOP at January 11, 2014 11:30 AM (8YLt4)

47 41 toby928Â© at January 11, 2014 03:28 PM (QupBk)

It is why I support break-up frankly.

The left will not stop until they destroy the designated villain, and it is a variable and never unfilled seat.

Ask Chrispy Chreme how much fun being their pet is.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:30 AM (TE35l)

48 btw, toby, did you ever see CRANK (2006)? I have not. I have a copy of Captain Phillips, but I haven't watched it yet. I can say with great certainty that Alien Uprising (2012) sucked donkey balls.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:31 AM (QupBk)

I'm discouraged about ever electing the conservative we need. Look at what happened in 2012: after four years of a Socialist President, what was our best response? What did we offer as an answer to Obama's hard liberalism? Who did we send up in response?

Mitt Romney.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:32 AM (Wp8ly)

50 On my trip to the store this morning I realized there is a great fat inequality amongst the population.

Posted by: Mr. Wizard at January 11, 2014 11:32 AM (MhA4j)

51 If we just fired all the government employees who administer those poverty programs and just give the money to the poor there wouldn't be any poor people.

Posted by: General Consensus at January 11, 2014 11:32 AM (ykD2d)

52 You either believe in slef-government, or you don't. People have the right to be wrong. Governance should be about persuasion rather than force.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:33 AM (QupBk)

53 I guess it's too late to call it "Roll up your sleeves and help pull the damn barge you slackers" conservatism.

Posted by: Seamus at January 11, 2014 11:33 AM (g4TxM)

54 self-government dammit

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:33 AM (QupBk)

55 If income inequality is going to get lots of play in 2014 I suppose those "food deserts" that cause vast swathes of our population to be obese, yet hungry, will also be getting a starring role. O/T but can someone please explain to me how my one reliable not-liberal show, Blue Bloods, has fallen off the wagon and become just another place for Hollywood to beat me over the head with liberal thought = good and conservative thought = bad?

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at January 11, 2014 11:33 AM (RZ8pf)

56 49 Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 03:32 PM (Wp8ly)

Second election in a row where the base was not charged until the Veep selection..(who is a Compassionate Guy too it turns out)

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:33 AM (TE35l)

Christie/Bush 2016

-----

How scary is it that this might happen?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:34 AM (Wp8ly)

58
In case any of you are bored and waiting for new movies, here are some older movies I watched recently and enjoyed:

-Crank
-Crank II: High Voltage
these were both fun action flicks with Jason Statham

-Four Brothers starring Mark Wahlberg. This is a mediocre flick but worth watching if you're in the mood for gun fights and inanity.

-HITMAN starring Timothy Olyphant. Action flick based on a video game. Good stuff for a rainy/lazy afternoon.

-The Bank Job - a very good Brit flick based on a '70's bank robbery. Very colorful.

- A Man Apart starring Vin Diesel - meh-to-good

- The Italian Job - half serious, half goofy, entertaining enough to watch

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:34 AM (gYIst)

59 I would like to see us return to a Confederacy in a lot of ways, rather than a unitary Republic.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:34 AM (QupBk)

60 51 General Consensus at January 11, 2014 03:32 PM (ykD2d)

Cut, Jib, Newsletter...

Cut the (over)head...

just send FREESHIT cash to all

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:35 AM (TE35l)

61 On my trip to the store this morning I realized there is a great fat inequality amongst the population. - I'll give you all the fat you want.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2014 11:35 AM (QWLFC)

62 55 Paranoidgirlinseattle at January 11, 2014 03:33 PM (RZ8pf)

Baby you screwed up...you trusted us...

//Writers Local 957

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:36 AM (TE35l)

63
If the Onion was funny, which it is not, they'd do a piece on traffic inequality and why it's important to spread the traffic around.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 11:37 AM (gYIst)

64 I'll vote for any candidate that supports the following: Flat tax/fair tax (simplifies tax code, defangs the IRS) Repeal Obamacare Transparent NSA oversight/surveillance reform Enforce immigration laws Absent that, I'll support the GOP when they demonstrate they reduced the size of the federal government.

Posted by: Marmo at January 11, 2014 11:40 AM (pcgW1)

65 Madison dumbed down for the LIV: "Think of your bullshit job and asshole coworkers. Most people can't be trusted with too much authority. They either slack off, and drop the ball when you need them not to, or become drunk with power and make everyone else's lives miserable. Same with government. You dont want your pointy haired boss calling the shots in your off- hours life, do you?"

There, even an idiot can relate to that .

Posted by: gushka can has browncoat at January 11, 2014 11:40 AM (f858s)

2016 should be great for us. Obamacare is now a reality and people are pissed. The economy is still awful and Osama is already dead. The citizenry should be ready for a conservative message. Its our time. The Dems are going to offer Hillary. We should answer with a smart, lucid champion of the Conservative cause. We'd have a willing audience. The stars are aligned. Will we offer the country a real alternative? No.

Christie/Bush 2016.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:41 AM (Wp8ly)

67 Rubio's plan sounds like the perfect way to integrate 20 million low wage instant new citizens into our Democracy during the worst employment crisis since the great depression. I mean the only objection is how they'll fit in right? Top. Men.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 11, 2014 11:42 AM (EGq3p)

68 Frankly I blame the teenage granddaughter "Nikki" she is a brain dead liberal twit on the show, always doing stupid things and arguing the socialist point of view and pushing back on their religious upbringing. It is like all the episodes are now written to appeal to her instead of Tom Selleck. And he just seems to be going along with it. "here I will say this really dumb lib infested idea because at least it is a paycheck."

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at January 11, 2014 11:42 AM (RZ8pf)

69 Because the phrase implies that conservatism is merciless.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 03:18 PM (gYIst)

Conservatism isn't merciless. We are.

Posted by: Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 11, 2014 11:42 AM (yh0zB)

70 okay I'm going to be a contrarian for a moment.

When I read Rubio's wage-enhancement proposal, I viewed it as an incrementalist step towards abolishing the minimum wage. Which, from this point of view, would be *awesome*.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 11:43 AM (9GG/0)

71 And just why in the fuck does the GOP sit back and let progressives create the Next Crisis like "income inequality"? Why can't they create their own imaginary crisis?

Posted by: Marmo at January 11, 2014 11:44 AM (pcgW1)

72 Madison dumbed down even further for the LIB: Let's play a game of "who can punch the softest", you go first.

Posted by: Seamus at January 11, 2014 11:44 AM (t+Lfa)

73 When's the football thread up?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:46 AM (Wp8ly)

74 The GOP is not and never really was about small government. It kinda fell into small government after outright socialists took over the Dems.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 11, 2014 11:46 AM (HJcb1)

75 and also, I think we ought to think about adopting the incrementalist tactic more, that has been very successful for the left.

after all the left did not bring us to the brink of single-payer all in one fell swoop. they did it in small steps over the course of many decades.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 11:46 AM (9GG/0)

76 10th Amendment or secede. It's the only way.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 11, 2014 11:47 AM (Yu+KI)

77
It is a theory of government consisting mainly of limits and boundaries. The light is almost always red

Well they sure the hell got me pegged.

But hey if they want govt in every part of their lives, the govt can start with them.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 11, 2014 11:47 AM (n0DEs)

78
Conservatism isn't merciless. We are.

Posted by: Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 11, 2014 03:42 PM (yh0zB)

I was raised by a DI who used to come back at me when i complained something wasn't fair. "Think of all the things you get away with. Thank God life's NOT fair. You would HATE it if it really was. You don NOT want what you deserve."

I think about that sometimes, now. Especially when people complain of unfairness. What they really mean is "I think I deserve a more special deal than this."

Posted by: gushka can has browncoat at January 11, 2014 11:47 AM (f858s)

79 56 Second election in a row where the base was not charged until the Veep selection..(who is a Compassionate Guy too it turns out) Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 03:33 PM (TE35l) I remember an article at PJM awhile ago that suggested that the Palin nomination was somewhat akin to "The Producers". i.e., the R establishment thought they were nominating a nobody, and were taken aback when she turned out to be a smash hit.

Posted by: rickl at January 11, 2014 11:49 AM (sdi6R)

80 77 Guy Mohawk at January 11, 2014 03:47 PM (n0DEs)

Since they refuse to concede that red is ever the answer the only solution is to get the far the fuck away as possible from the assholes.

Have fun in New England fellas.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:50 AM (TE35l)

81 Hey Marco, there is a very simple solution to wage decay. It's the opposite of amnesty. Deport a few million illegals and get serious about reducing the influx of new illegal entries. Businesses can only pay lousy wages if there is a ready supply of labor willing to do the job at that level of compensation.

Posted by: Epobirs at January 11, 2014 11:50 AM (bPxS6)

82 I would like to see us return to a Confederacy in a lot of ways, rather than a unitary Republic.

Posted by: toby928Â© at January 11, 2014 03:34 PM (QupBk)

--------------------------------------------

Well, I wouldn't go that far. What I'd like to see is a group of states seceding, and then returning to the US Constitution. I still think the idea of a true republic is the best.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 11:51 AM (rbTfA)

83 >> When I read Rubio's wage-enhancement proposal, I viewed it as an incrementalist step towards abolishing the minimum wage. It's not.

Posted by: Andy at January 11, 2014 11:51 AM (+NYjg)

>>"Come to think of it, I'm really not sure what Gerson and Wehner are complaining about.>>

They're scared. That's what all this is about -- fear. They see the emerging insurrection.

Posted by: rrpjr at January 11, 2014 11:51 AM (s/yC1)

85 the govt can start with them *** But there is the rub. They don't want the government to start with them. Remember laptop dude from the OWS nonsense? "Abolish private property yaaayy! Hey, that's my laptop!"

Posted by: Seamus at January 11, 2014 11:52 AM (g4TxM)

>>"Rubio just lurches from disappointment to disappointment..."

to political oblivion, with all hope.

Posted by: rrpjr at January 11, 2014 11:52 AM (s/yC1)

87 Which, from this point of view, would be *awesome*. Posted by: chemjeff I read it as political elites talking to each other over the heads of the populace through the media.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 11, 2014 11:53 AM (qeF5L)

88 #70

Problem: This isn't eliminating the minimum wage. It's just giving it a new name and making the government the payroll manager.

Posted by: Epobirs at January 11, 2014 11:54 AM (bPxS6)

89 >>"Rubio just lurches from disappointment to disappointment..." to political oblivion, with all hope. If he wants to be President, he'll have to go back and get elected governor of Florida for a couple of terms. I can state with metaphysical certainty that he will not go from the Senate to the Presidency.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 11:54 AM (QupBk)

90
the GOP as a whole hasn't exactly been a bulwark against the creeping advance of statism.

By donating thousands of dollars to Democratic candidate in Georgia, I think I'm supporting Republican conservative -- in the broad sense.

Posted by: Sen. Richard "Dick" Lugar

Ditto.

Posted by: Sen. John "John" Warner

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 11, 2014 11:54 AM (kdS6q)

91 83 Andy at January 11, 2014 03:51 PM (+NYjg)

Correct if it were he would be arguing for turning welfare into a per diem with less oversight,

He just wants to be the paymaster for the welfare state.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 11:55 AM (TE35l)

92 Fuck income equality. I worked my ass off to get where I am. Why should some hipster douchebag with a BA in womyn's studies make what I make? You want live like millionaire then work like one.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 11, 2014 11:55 AM (edRK0)

93 Posted by: Seamus at January 11, 2014 03:52 PM <<<<<

Ha! I forgot about laptop guy. Thanks for the re-chuckle.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 11, 2014 11:55 AM (n0DEs)

94 Pick a winner of the first game Joffen, if you're right, move on to pick in the second game. Right now it's just me and soothsayer disagreeing on one game, hardly a tournament, but if a few people participate, it might last until tomorrow night.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 11:56 AM (ZshNr)

95 @78 DI speaks the truth. Can't believe I never heard that or thought about fairness that way before in that context.

Posted by: Beagle at January 11, 2014 11:56 AM (sOtz/)

96
"Rubio just lurches from disappointment to disappointment..."

to political oblivion, with all hope.
Posted by: rrpjr

Into oncoming traffic, I hope.....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 11, 2014 11:56 AM (kdS6q)

97 From the Denver Post this morning - headline of an article in the Business section:

" Reich warns of peril of income inequality "

In the body of the article:

" People have run out of coping mechanisms, Reich said, and the country needs to tackle the problem. His antidotes include raising the minimum wage, boosting public spending on education and infrastructure and raising taxes on the highest earners ... "
- - - - -

Yup, the journewlistas have gotten together and established their new Talking Points. And anybody anywhere saying "Hold on, wait a minute, let's think this through" is going to be pilloried as "wanting to make ordinary Americans suffer".

Damn. Them. All,

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at January 11, 2014 11:57 AM (D7I32)

98 I think about that sometimes, now. Especially when people complain of unfairness. What they really mean is "I think I deserve a more special deal than this."

Posted by: gushka can has browncoat at January 11, 2014 03:47 PM (f858s)

I had a Chief who used to tell me that fair is a weather condition.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 11, 2014 11:58 AM (yh0zB)

99 This girl in the food court has given me concrete proof that Ronald McDonald would not in fact look good in dreads with the bright red hair

Posted by: The Dude at January 11, 2014 11:58 AM (pm/oS)

100

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 03:56 PM (ZshNr)

And I do this when the football thread is up?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 11:58 AM (Wp8ly)

101 My pick for the first game is Sea Birds.

Posted by: Ronster at January 11, 2014 11:58 AM (kj1eu)

102 Do it now, might as well.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 11:59 AM (ZshNr)

103 83 >> When I read Rubio's wage-enhancement proposal, I viewed it as an incrementalist step towards abolishing the minimum wage.

It's not.

Posted by: Andy at January 11, 2014 03:51 PM (+NYjg)

It could be.

Here is Rubio on the minimum wage: it doesn't work.

http://tinyurl.com/ll7ts28

Now you can say he is lying and insincere, just like he was with amnesty. That's fine. But once this idea is out there, then it's out of Rubio's hands.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 11:59 AM (9GG/0)

104 Ronster down for Seattle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 11:59 AM (ZshNr)

105 Â“Mr. Rubio will also propose Wednesday to replace the Earned Income Tax Credit, which was used by 28 million tax payers in 2011, with a new Â“wage enhancementÂ” *** If Rubio is truly concerned about "income inequality" why is he also trying to flood the market with low/no skill immigrants? The surest way to raise the salaries of the those making low salaries is to reduce the number of people available for that position. If someone is working as say a day laborer, bringing in people from Latin America to compete with him will lower the salary he can negotiate with his prospective employers. The Republicans should be calling for strict enforcement of immigration laws as the "cure" for "income inequality"...but the Republican leadership wants their cheap serfs as much as the Democrats do.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 11, 2014 12:00 PM (M3hAT)

106 79 rickl at January 11, 2014 03:49 PM (sdi6R)

I think so too. The decision was made in the wake of '06 to "move to the middle." Never understanding that the democrats would keep "lurching to the left" on an almost weekly basis. McCain was the "next in line" and the two guys left standing at the end of the 08 ramp up were both Brooks/Frum wing guys.

The GOP has this fantasy that if it runs to the middle it can compete in New England and Cali regions it has not had genuine competitiveness in in 20 years.

The answer of course cannot be selling the case that won the GOP back power in 1994 or anything no sir it is to let a minority of the country's HARD preference for subsidy and hyper-interventionist Federal power destroy their party in the rest of the nation by mandating the Redder States go more purple.

Memo to Rinzo Preeboso- FUCK YOU

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 12:00 PM (TE35l)

107 PS- I agree with Sven 10077 way up at the top: " ... I am done pulling the lever for communist lite "

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at January 11, 2014 12:01 PM (D7I32)

108 Birds.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 12:01 PM (QupBk)

109 Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at January 11, 2014 03:33 PM (RZ8pf) ------ It's a cop show - my mom and I used to watch it but she got on some other kick and stopped. One would think they would know their audience, but maybe they don't care.

Posted by: Baldy at January 11, 2014 12:01 PM (2bql3)

110 'Fair' is the word a doctor uses to describe your condition when what he really means is "Don't but any green bananas."

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:01 PM (r+Vaf)

111 I guess here is another way to phrase the question.

If you wanted to get rid of the minimum wage, and the direct approach -i.e., just repealing it outright - wasn't going to work, what strategy would you undertake in order to get it repealed?

I see what the left did with health care, and what they did was, they gradually replaced the private sector with government-run health care in small chunks. Why can't we adopt a similar tactic with some of our initiatives?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 12:02 PM (9GG/0)

112 But = buy

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:02 PM (r+Vaf)

113 His antidotes include raising the minimum wage, boosting public spending on education and infrastructure and raising taxes on the highest earners *** And another idea for the Republicans...since federal public sectors workers make significantly more then private sector workers...a tax on federal public sector employees. Seriously, make the Democrats argue why they oppose taxes on "the rich".

Posted by: 18-1 at January 11, 2014 12:02 PM (M3hAT)

114 Toby has Seattle. So far, soothsayer is the outlier.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:02 PM (ZshNr)

115 'Fair' is the word a doctor uses to describe your condition when what he really means is "Don't but any green bananas." Ha!

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 12:03 PM (QupBk)

116 When you say "income inequality" what you are saying is the high school dropout, the felon, all should have the same wages as i with a doctorate degree. Otherwise, you will have to admit there are differences in skill and intelligence. If that is that is not reason to pay differently, what is?

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 11, 2014 12:03 PM (Bek89)

117 The poor you will always have with you.

Posted by: Yeshua Hamashiach at January 11, 2014 12:03 PM (36Rjy)

118 Tea party and libertarians are hostile? Who stripped the conservative house members of there chairs after the last election? That would be speaker boehner ... Who refused to help the conservative members of the senate with the filibuster of rand paul and the filibuster of Ted Cruz and mike lee? Who went on to call the conservatives coo koo birds? Extremists? That was senate minority leader mcconnel & sen insane McCain so hostile? Thy name is Rino

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 11, 2014 12:03 PM (2segR)

119
I always like to pick an underdog, makes it more interesting for me, so which one....hmmm.....

ok, Saints are the biggest dog, them and the Patriots.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 11, 2014 12:03 PM (n0DEs)

120 95 @78

DI speaks the truth. Can't believe I never heard that or thought about fairness that way before in that context.

Posted by: Beagle at January 11, 2014 03:56 PM (sOtz/)

it was a seriously chilling thought for a snippy teenager who was always pushing limits... I think it has made me a more humble and grateful adult. He also told me while i was doing shit jobs "work sanctifies. There is no job beneath you if it needs to be done. Thank God for the people who clean up shit, load trucks, and take out garbage. they make civilized life possible."

Usually this counselling to me, on the occasion of me having to scrub out the eight horse trailer after a show. But i have to admit as an adult there is no job on this farm i dont know how to do, if i need to do it. (except fix the truck or electrical stuff, that would be instant death or loss of fingers, im sure)

but i think our problem being hooked on illegal labor comes from so many perfectly good Americans thinking "im too good to do that crap job."

Posted by: gushka can has browncoat at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (f858s)

121 I'm for the Birds as well.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (Wp8ly)

122 There = their can't read my iPhone very well sorry

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (2segR)

123 Toby has Seattle. So far, soothsayer is the outlier. Take no comfort. I seem to be a contra-indicator. I managed to end this year's PickEm 9 games under random chance.

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (QupBk)

124

Hey y'all...cheers!

Way OT:

Got a question for the math majors and science-y folks out there. At what rate of speed would a Honda Civic have to be traveling for all four of its wheels to leave the ground after hitting a speed bump? There's a really crazy story behind that question....

I'm sure there's some sort of equation I could look up but I'm pretty sure we can count on the Horde to help us out. Thanks for thinking about it!

Posted by: NC Ref at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (Myqtp)

125 Guy Mohawk takes New Orleans, guaranteeing a second round.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:04 PM (ZshNr)

126 Why can't we adopt a similar tactic with some of our initiatives?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 04:02 PM (9GG/0)

Because... we don't trust them to actually follow through to the end goal? That what is more likely to happen is that they do this, but keep the minimum wage as well. Then we're even more screwed.

Posted by: KG at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (IPz9m)

127 Am trying to determine the Super Bowl matchup that would make Goodell cry the most. Put me down for Indy-Carolina, with Seattle being a close 2nd.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (HBIUw)

128 The GOP has this fantasy that if it runs to the middle it can compete in New England and Cali regions it has not had genuine competitiveness in in 20 years. *** Every year the Republicans have won big they have run on a specifically conservative line - 1980, 1984, 1988, 1994, 2004. Of course the problem is that they've been as likely to abandon their so-called agenda after winning as sticking to it. Anyway though, give people a stark ideological choice and they will generally vote for the conservative. Run liberal lite against liberals and the State Media will make sure the full fledged liberals will win the election as a popularity contest.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (M3hAT)

129 Joffen has Seattle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (ZshNr)

130 111 chemjeff at January 11, 2014 04:02 PM (9GG/0)

There is no way the media allows that to happen Jeff...

the reality is for gradualism and incrementalism to work you have to have a collusive media...

we have to sell our case to the people over the media....that requires skill and work.

Something the current GOP crop lacks in spades.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (TE35l)

131 sorry i suck at formatting apparently

Posted by: NC Ref at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (Myqtp)

132 Butt = buy I'm Bullish on butt, too.

Posted by: Sir Mix-a-lot at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (8XnRu)

133

My main worry for 2014? Election integrity. I keep getting this creeping feeling that the progs have already got the voting system rigged.

The 2014 elections will be the litmus test for me whether or not this country has any chance of being free again. I'm already looking at options other than living in the US if it all goes south in the mid-terms. There's other countries right now that will be more free than the United States if the progs prevail in 2014.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:05 PM (rbTfA)

134 PPS-
Saw this new campaign slogan at Karl Denninger's market-ticker.org:

"Cthulhu 2016 --
Because you're sick and tired of trying to pick the lesser of two evils."

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at January 11, 2014 12:07 PM (D7I32)

135

133 My main worry for 2014? Election integrity. I keep getting this creeping feeling that the progs have already got the voting system rigged.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 04:05 PM (rbTfA)

Wont happen. GOP will hold steady, at the least.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 12:07 PM (Wp8ly)

136 I always like to pick an underdog, makes it more interesting for me, so which one....hmmm.....

ok, Saints are the biggest dog, them and the Patriots.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 11, 2014 04:03 PM (n0DEs)

Panthers, ALL! THE! WAY!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 11, 2014 12:08 PM (yh0zB)

137 I don't fit in this world anymore.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 11, 2014 12:08 PM (jTKU5)

138 128 18-1 at January 11, 2014 04:05 PM (M3hAT)

They've tried, I'll be polite "Conservatism light" the last 5 swings at the bat. Conservatives because Gore scared the fuck out of us and Clinton enraged us gave Bush the benefit of the doubt. Only the GOP could look at the results and say "well the batting average is 2 out of five, or 3 out of zix(if you count Bush the elder as anything other than reagan's 3d term) whiffing the last two swings... LET'S KEEP DOING THE SAME THING!"

It's a time for choosing, and given the chamber of commerce means more to Rove than voters I am afraid I may have to choose to quit voting or vote Democrat from spite.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 12:08 PM (TE35l)

139 And I certainly did not mean that as a slam to the informed Horde in any way. I meant that the Old Guard is always signaling their willingness to appease through the media. "We are very interested in Comprehensive Immigration reform" Is them adopting the Left's language in public which means that what they propose is going to help the Left. That is not an accident. They float balloons about legislation often. The Graham/Cornyn bill that would allow medical records to be used to deny gun ownership is the establishment GOP talking to the Democrats. But I digress.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 11, 2014 12:09 PM (bJe+C)

140 N'awlins beats Seattle.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:10 PM (EZ3wo)

141 About 20 minutes for anyone to get their Game One picks in for knockout tourney. Pick only the upcoming Seattle/New Orleans game, no other team mentions matter.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:11 PM (ZshNr)

142 Because... we don't trust them to actually follow through to the end goal?

But we don't have to trust them. We can just regard Marco Rubio as a useful idiot to pave the way for the conservatism that we really want.

If Rubio presents a flawed idea that can be transformed into something we actually want, then let's just pat him on the head, use him to get his idea through, and then dump him overboard at the first opportunity?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 12:11 PM (9GG/0)

143 139 Daybrother at January 11, 2014 04:09 PM (bJe+C)

The McCain gang is why we are losing and suck along with the former "independent" Snarlin' Arlen, Liza "Snow Queen" Murkanakasaki....

Snarlin' Arlen is a pluperfect asshole and I hope Ted Kennedy is fucking him now in hell.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 11, 2014 12:11 PM (TE35l)

144 I don't fit in this world anymore.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 11, 2014 04:08 PM (jTKU5)

--------------------------------------------

I don't either.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:12 PM (rbTfA)

145 Seamus has New Orleans.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:12 PM (ZshNr)

146 Soona .... When ENTIRE precincts voted 100% for the scoamf and our side says "meh, that's how those districts vote" & expect us to believe that a statistical impossibility is possible & has been for years when these same people forget to feed their children, check their kids homework hell they have to be reminded what day school begins.... We are doomed

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 11, 2014 12:12 PM (2segR)

147 #95

P.J. O'Rourke has a similar piece in a recent book:

In DonÂ’t Vote!, he slams a culture of Â“gimme rightsÂ” and demands personal responsibility. When his 12-year-old daughter complains that life isnÂ’t fair, he tells her: Â“Honey, youÂ’re cute. ThatÂ’s not fair. YouÂ’re smart. ThatÂ’s not fair. You were born in the United States of America. ThatÂ’s not fair. Darling, you had better get down on your knees and pray to God that things donÂ’t start getting fair for you.Â”

Posted by: Epobirs at January 11, 2014 12:13 PM (bPxS6)

148 There is no way the media allows that to happen Jeff... the reality is for gradualism and incrementalism to work you have to have a collusive media... *** Yep

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:13 PM (g4TxM)

149 Pick only the upcoming Seattle/New Orleans game, no other team mentions matter.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 04:11 PM (ZshNr)

Seattle. Cause wtf not.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 11, 2014 12:13 PM (yh0zB)

150 GGE takes Seattle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:14 PM (ZshNr)

151 When are we going to address 'sex inequality'? It's not really fair that Jessica Alba's husband gets to have sex with her 100% of the time and I'm victimized and impoverished with 0%.

Would 25% be asking too much from the greedy bastard?

Posted by: Icedog at January 11, 2014 12:14 PM (uZ6Ul)

152 Seattle, based on what I said above.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 12:14 PM (HBIUw)

153 N.O.

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 11, 2014 12:14 PM (2segR)

154 "Fair" is the place you go in the fall to ride substandard roller coasters and try to outwit the carnies cheating you while gorging on cotton candy and peanuts.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 11, 2014 12:15 PM (T2V/1)

155 Vendette also on the Seattle train.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:15 PM (ZshNr)

156 compassionate conservative aka christian socialist

Posted by: obamuh at January 11, 2014 12:16 PM (2whSJ)

157 Phoenix rises up in defense of New Orleans.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:16 PM (ZshNr)

158 Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change the direction of a ratchet? A: Only one, but it has to want to change.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:16 PM (yEEDz)

159 Seattle. No struggle.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:17 PM (rbTfA)

160 I got Seattle.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at January 11, 2014 12:17 PM (jucos)

161 I'm only repeating all these to be sure I get them right and can easily make a list.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:17 PM (ZshNr)

162 I stand for Seattle

Posted by: Chuck at January 11, 2014 12:17 PM (jucos)

163 Soona and Truck Monkey double-teaming Seattle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:18 PM (ZshNr)

164 Vic, the fair is were I go when I really want to feel good about myself. I'm a friggin Adonas!

Posted by: Icedog at January 11, 2014 12:18 PM (uZ6Ul)

165
If Rubio presents a flawed idea that can be transformed into something we actually want, then let's just pat him on the head, use him to get his idea through, and then dump him overboard at the first opportunity?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 11, 2014 04:11 PM (9GG/0)

Ok... the problem is that *we* do not have enough representation in Congress for such a strategy to work. His ideas are far more likely to be co-opted the other side than our own fraction of one side. Hell, our own side will work against us on this....

Posted by: KG at January 11, 2014 12:18 PM (IPz9m)

166 As with Chuck, Seattle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:19 PM (ZshNr)

167 Cfuk the GOP. That's all I got. I'm sitting out if we get another.... Well cfuk 'em; I'm out.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 11, 2014 12:19 PM (LP0Fj)

168 Looks like Seattle is pulling a train! Woo-woo!!!

Posted by: Joe Biden at January 11, 2014 12:20 PM (Myqtp)

169 I am with the Icedog on the Sex equality thing. I need to have Padma Lakshmi at least 30% of the time to do sex to. Otherwise I am being denied unfairly.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at January 11, 2014 12:20 PM (jucos)

170 I'm a conservative whose future votes will all be for a Democrat, any Democrat. The more radical the better. Not that there are any conservatives to vote for in Washington state. But let the GOP burn, then scatter the rancid ashes, and let the country have what it wants, good and hard.

Posted by: Born Free at January 11, 2014 12:20 PM (xL8Hf)

171 Were, where, whatever...

Posted by: Icedog at January 11, 2014 12:20 PM (uZ6Ul)

172 Joe Bidden for the Jets.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:21 PM (ZshNr)

173 Bidden, Biden, whatever

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:21 PM (ZshNr)

174 Bidden, Biden, whatever

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 04:21 PM (ZshNr)

Bidet...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 11, 2014 12:22 PM (yh0zB)

175 I find the Fox pregame comedy bit to be pointless.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 12:22 PM (HBIUw)

176 >> But once this idea is out there, then it's out of Rubio's hands. If you replaced the EITC with this, it would come in on top of the minimum wage just like the EITC does now. I can't guess what's in his mind as far as a 3D chess move goes, but, yeah, it's hard to give that big a benefit of the doubt to Mr. "'path to citizenship' is just another word for 'amnesty'l

Posted by: Andy at January 11, 2014 12:22 PM (qvsl/)

177 N.O. by a field goal.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 11, 2014 12:22 PM (bxpf3)

178 My Chuck sock above was the one Joey Biden told to stand up

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at January 11, 2014 12:23 PM (jucos)

179 You know what else ratchets?

The rack.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 11, 2014 12:23 PM (ZqlGu)

180 I find the Fox pregame comedy bit to be pointless.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 04:22 PM (HBIUw)

----------------------------------------------

You mean "senseless", don't you?

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:23 PM (rbTfA)

181 Maybe we could have a football thread? With pointy elbows and such? Pretty please?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 12:24 PM (Wp8ly)

182 CrotchetyOldJarhead takes New Orleans. Closing minutes, now, get your picks in, folks.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 11, 2014 12:24 PM (ZshNr)

183 Hey, DiT. We need some cheerleader tittehs.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:25 PM (rbTfA)

184 Every state that requires voter ID went for Romney, despite his white rice blandness. Every state that doesn't have voter went for the communist. The game is rigged as surely as the fair midway is.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 11, 2014 12:25 PM (Yu+KI)

185 When you say "income inequality" what you are saying is the high school dropout, the felon, all should have the same wages as i with a doctorate degree. Posted by: RoyalOil I have mentioned this before but I had a professor in school that had grown up in the Soviet Union and he told me the best thing about financial freedom in the West was that even though in Russia he had an MD and a PhD and a high position in the military the train conductors were paid far more than he was because: Central Planning and Party Priorities. The Soviet fucking Union is now our model. Winning!

Posted by: Daybrother at January 11, 2014 12:26 PM (r1isO)

186 You mean "senseless", don't you? Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 04:23 PM (rbTfA) That too.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 12:26 PM (HBIUw)

187 Am I the only one who is thankful to the Libs for destroying Christie?

Did the DNC lose their playbook? First, you support the squishy RINO (see Bush, McCain, Romney) to ensure he is the primary winner (and all conservatives are demoralized), and THEN you attack and destroy.

Posted by: Icedog at January 11, 2014 12:27 PM (uZ6Ul)

188 Damned libertarians always ruining things!!!

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at January 11, 2014 12:28 PM (E8IHS)

189 When you say "income inequality" what you are saying is the high school dropout, the felon, all should have the same wages as i with a doctorate degree. Posted by: RoyalOil To be fair, getting a PhD is the mark of a sucker.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at January 11, 2014 12:30 PM (E8IHS)

190 Every state that requires voter ID went for Romney, despite his white rice blandness.

Every state that doesn't have voter went for the communist.

The game is rigged as surely as the fair midway is.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 11, 2014 04:25 PM (Yu+KI)

---------------------------------------------

Yup. The marxists are in the process of destroying the most basic of the American traditions: The vote.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:31 PM (rbTfA)

191
Cowboys.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 11, 2014 12:31 PM (SAMxH)

192 Football thread has arrived.

Posted by: Vendette at January 11, 2014 12:31 PM (HBIUw)

193 You're not a true modern conservative unless you bitch about all the moanin-groanin during the National Anthem, so...in first.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 11, 2014 12:31 PM (xq1UY)

194 Football thread up.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2014 12:32 PM (Wp8ly)

195 Did the DNC lose their playbook? First, you support the squishy RINO (see Bush, McCain, Romney) to ensure he is the primary winner (and all conservatives are demoralized), and THEN you attack and destroy.

Posted by: Icedog at January 11, 2014 04:27 PM (uZ6Ul)

------------------------------------------

Sometimes they can't help themselves. Repub blood in the water drives them crazy. Their hate compells them.

Posted by: Soona at January 11, 2014 12:34 PM (rbTfA)

196
nood asses 'n elbows

Posted by: soothsayer at January 11, 2014 12:34 PM (gYIst)

197 Icedog and Truck Monkey- it looks like the line for socialized supermodel sex starts down the block and around the corner. And you need to sign up on the website first.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 11, 2014 12:35 PM (g4TxM)

198 Yup. The marxists are in the process of destroying the most basic of the American traditions: The vote. Posted by: Soona I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. New Orleans by 10.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 11, 2014 12:36 PM (Ti8/O)

199 If we all could agree on something like Marmo at 64 above outlined, and further agree to disagree on all of our other issues for an election cycle or two, we could win this. " I'll forgive your legalized dope if you'll forgive my prolifeism, and we'll both cut the Ayn Rand guy over there some slack .... " We are the opposition party we are all wishing for, if we would just focus on the most crucial issue: keeping a country where we can have the discussion. The Republican party was a fringe in 1856, but elected a President in 1860, and where are the Whigs today ? Time to quit playing Battered Wife to the Republican party. Scary to get out into the unknown with your ass on the line, but srsly, is it really scarier than where we perfectly well know we'll be in a few moar years ? WE are the Opposition Party !

Posted by: phrastic array at January 11, 2014 12:36 PM (gUoN4)

200 The voter ID and Romney wins correlate only because the red States are the only ones who were able to get voter ID (picture) passed.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 11, 2014 12:41 PM (T2V/1)

201 Vic, I hope you're right. I fear that you're not. hope vs fear ? a tossup, who knows. maybe we will get some more data later this year.

Posted by: phrastic array at January 11, 2014 12:45 PM (gUoN4)

202 "the EITC is a warped system which has racked up a roughly 25% fraud percentage over the past decade."

I've got a previously voiced thesis about why the Obamacare Web site exchange systems are taking in so many people's info and then coming back and saying that they're being slotted into Medicaid.

The Medicaid eligibility algorithms look among other things at how many dependent children you claim to have. But guess what? So does also the algorithm for determining how much EITC money you receive if filing for that.

So, people who have been claiming phantom dependent children in their household (who may not exist, or who may live elsewhere as nondependents) in order to game the system and get more EITC credit are now, as a side effect, being Medicaid-classified because of those phantom kids.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 11, 2014 12:45 PM (gqT4g)

203 Also keep in mind that a lot of those States who had passed voter ID could not implement it because Holder halted it illegally and drug his feet in court so that it would be delayed until after the election. e.g. SC, TX etc.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 11, 2014 12:46 PM (T2V/1)

204 #111

Because it achieves none of the goals. The workers are still receiving the same amount and the businesses are still paying for it. The only difference is filtering the money through the IRS instead of paying it directly to the labor.

A genuine incremental approach would be to give specific classes of employers an exemption from the minimum wage and then expanding the range of employers exempted a little bit every year. That opens up opportunity for teenagers in entry level jobs, a sector severely hurting right now.

Remember, the original intent of minimum wage was to exclude certain types of people from the workforce, not to ensure their survival. The same brand of progressives who were big on eugenics pushed minimum wage as a way to suppress undesirables, the rationale being that "they cannot outperform whites but can compete by underliving them at lower wages." Thus minimum wages were intended to exclude those persons from the labor market as they would supposedly be unable to perform at the level required to justify that amount of pay.

http://www.princeton.edu/~tleonard/papers/Eugenics.pdf

Long and a bit of a slog but a real eye-opener in terms of leftist history.

Posted by: Epobirs at January 11, 2014 12:48 PM (bPxS6)

205 "...it obscures and undermines the social contributions of a truly conservative vision of government."

In other words, "We are not men, we are angels."

Posted by: The Liberty Dude at January 11, 2014 12:49 PM (iAWQF)

206 One of the main problems with an unremittingly hostile view of government Â— held by many associated with the tea party, libertarianism and Â“constitutionalismÂ” Â— is that it obscures and undermines the social contributions of a truly conservative vision of government. I think that puts it very well. Conservative principles work more by watchful inaction rather /b]than direct action. Progressive LI[b/]bEralsim cannot function in a state of inaction or passivity. It's why they are genetically unable to understand the invisible forces of the intelligently overseen and common-sense regulated marketplace. Created victim(s) need to see their faux-victimhood rationalized and soothedby repetitively failed legislative policies enacted or re-enacted because, as we all should know, history only started last week. That being said, start marching the little twinkle-toed cocksuckers to the Wal-Mart camps, STAT!

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 11, 2014 12:49 PM (szQwq)

207 DAMMNIT!!

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 11, 2014 12:50 PM (szQwq)

208 Interesting point. I tend to think that the algorithm favors Medicaid because of the cost recovery part - once they've got you on Medicaid you are lined up for at least partial confiscation of your estate when you die. Confiscating Capital = Moar Fairness !

Posted by: phrastic array at January 11, 2014 12:50 PM (gUoN4)

209 Fixed before the barrel *whew*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 11, 2014 12:50 PM (szQwq)

210 Great 1776 quote.

I've always thought that was a strangely prescient bit.

Posted by: Veeshir at January 11, 2014 12:50 PM (dKqLR)

211 I would like a well-run government at all levels staffed by people who considered themselves true servants of the public. It gets tiring when conservatives insist that 'gummint' can never do anything right, when this is something that we the people have control over. We could have accountability from those unelected bureaucrats. We could have the government services we want, tailored to local needs, not some centralized garbage. We could have decent, functional government. But there's no way to get there by arguing 0% government is optimal and that any disagreement with that=wanting 100% government.

Posted by: The Unreal Woman at January 11, 2014 01:45 PM (MPNFs)

212 The intense reaction to any suggestion that Republicans support any minor form of supporting/encouraging families / that any tax credit amounts to socialism seems like weird resentment politics. the idea that Bush failed because he was a big-govt. conservative is BS anyway. Sure, he got a new Medicare expansion through (which he may have lost 2004 without,) and...that's about it. People turned on him for entirely unrelated reasons.

Posted by: the kid at January 11, 2014 01:48 PM (TP6sz)

213 Yeah, I'm a big old honking natalist. Right now the federal and state governments overwhelmingly discourage marriage if you aren't making over 100k/yr (thanks Obamacare!). Government should be people in your society, who live and work and fellowship with you, not a bunch of faceless distant powertripping thuglets. I'm also for subsidiarity (which is letting the most local government unit have control to maximize accountability).

Posted by: The Unreal Woman at January 11, 2014 01:51 PM (MPNFs)

214 _______________________________

Ace,

Again, with all due respect, why would we expect politicians elected to wield and influence power within our giant Federal Government to be truly uncomfortable with the Federal Government's scope and power?

By and large, Republican Senators and Republican Congressional Representatives have never been truly disturbed by how huge and powerful the Federal Government (of which they play a significant part in running) has and continues to become.
And they never EVER will be. - It's power they get to enjoy too!

Posted by: _Dave_ at January 11, 2014 02:02 PM (07UzX)

215 Ace,

There is only one way to reign in control of the Federal Government: a cutting edge Constitutional Amendment that explicitly and greatly curtails the Federal Government's (especially Congress's) power of taxation.

Believing that winning the next election cycle will turn things around is simply naive. If we were to win both it and then the subsequent presidential election cycle HUGE: this would merely have the effect of tapping the breaks on a locomotive that is barreling toward a hairpin curve.

The tracks will be jumped.

A couple of well placed break-taps isn't going to make a difference in damage when derailment commences.

Posted by: _Dave_ at January 11, 2014 02:10 PM (07UzX)

216 With all this "Income inequality" where do I get my "TIME" back, do we have "Time inequality?" Which ***** is going to give me back the 40 years that I have spent working, away from friends, away from family, away from my hobbies? Here is an idea, you want free shit, donate a kidney, have yourself neutered or spayed, do something to compensate for my time. I just wish I could say how I really feel

Posted by: Rob in Katy at January 11, 2014 02:19 PM (PiTBB)

217 So supposedly the Tea Party is full of anarchists. I guess Ben Franklin was an anarchist too. Ridiculous.

Posted by: Emily at January 11, 2014 03:00 PM (7Rn+/)

218 It's not "wanting limited government" that makes you nuts, it's expecting it to happen overnight and cursing every Republican who doesn't think that's realistic as a "RINO traitor."

GWB was never about limiting government or cutting spending. Which 2000 or 2004 campaign did YOU watch? Bush ran on NCLB and Medicare D. And barely won at that.

Sometimes our problem is we want Reagan to come back and explain things and win again, but we romanticize him a bit too much. For instance, he NEVER said he would cut spending (other than waste and abuse, which he couldn't cut either), he ran on reducing the rate of growth of discretionary spending.

Posted by: Adjoran at January 11, 2014 03:07 PM (473jB)

219 people also seem to think questioning the wisdom of drastically cutting spending during a recession/slow recovery is a sign of RINOism too. it's all very silly.

Posted by: the kid at January 11, 2014 03:52 PM (TP6sz)

220 >>I don't fit in this world anymore.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 11, 2014 04:08 PM (jTKU5)>>

That's my line. God bless you, wherever you are.

Posted by: rrpjr at January 11, 2014 05:01 PM (s/yC1)

221 Good piece. Many important distinctions made. Thanks Andy

Posted by: theworkerbeesaregettingtired at January 11, 2014 05:53 PM (GJIFF)

222 Isn't "wage enhancement" just another term for Friedman's negative income tax? Friedman only proposed this as a stepping stone to eliminating the welfare state. It's a move in the right direction without throwing the system into chaos. I would have to read more about Rubio's proposal before I made a judgment, but this might actually be a move to the right.

Posted by: I want to high5 your face at January 11, 2014 06:04 PM (DTBbS)

223 Michael Gerson, chief speech writer of GWB. The GWB Administration, the gift that keeps on giving.

Posted by: MlR at January 11, 2014 06:12 PM (evbjR)

224 Conservatives supported Bush for around 6 years minus the Miers hiccup and then invented the "he spent too much, Medicare Part D is socialism, blahabfslasbfsaf" rationale for why he wasn't actually a conservative. it's bullshit.

Posted by: the kid at January 11, 2014 06:40 PM (TP6sz)

225 224 dunno if this is related but Reagan dropped a bunch of low-income people off the income tax rolls too. Of course now this makes them government leeches. b. s.

Posted by: the kid at January 11, 2014 06:41 PM (TP6sz)

226 people also seem to think questioning the wisdom of drastically cutting spending during a recession/slow recovery is a sign of RINOism too. How's that working out for you?

Posted by: toby928© at January 11, 2014 06:58 PM (QupBk)

227 Income inequality?

Whatever happened to UPWARD MOBILITY?

Anyone here that term lately?

Anyone?

Yeah, I know.

Posted by: Beverly at January 11, 2014 09:17 PM (iqtg0)

228

Everyone from Mike Lee, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz will be doing exactly what Rubio is doing. Thing is it doesn't matter because the GOP ain't going to pass jack about "income inequality" this is just talk to neutralize the Democrat Talking Points.

Posted by: midwestconservative at January 11, 2014 09:37 PM (eFTkY)

229 Income is the world's way of denoting a person's relative value. The more value a person creates, the greater their income. Better people have a better income, it is as simple as that. Those who produce little of value have low incomes.

This would be a tragedy if we lived in a country where people were prevented from making the most of themselves. But we don't. We live in country where everyone is entitled to 12 years of free and public education. We live in a country where anyone and everyone is free to be just about anything within their ability.

Yet we are continually scolded about individuals designated as "the poor" and told that they are the result of our greed or our lack of compassion.

Horseshit! The poor are failed human beings. Losers. People who can't cut it. People who have continually made such horrible choices in life that the weight of those bad decisions is crushing them. They have no one to blame but themselves. There are no excuses.

There are no political solutions to the problem of inferior human beings.

Posted by: Lee Reynolds at January 12, 2014 02:43 AM (0bC+U)

230 Will someone not ask why it is just to tax a taxi driver who works a 16 hour day at a higher rate than a cab driver who only works an 8 hour shift? Can someone justify why it is compassionate to steal the money from my family to give to someone else's? If a mugger steals your wallet and puts it in a poor box is it any different than the government doing the same?

Posted by: Veritas at January 12, 2014 08:30 AM (w9drt)

231 ...the GOP as a whole hasn't exactly been a bulwark against the creeping advance of statism.

Neither have conservatives.

"It may be inferred again that the present movement for womenÂ’s rights will certainly prevail from the history of its only opponent: Northern conservatism. This is a party which never conserves anything. Its history has been that it demurs to each aggression of the progressive party, and aims to save its credit by a respectable amount of growling, but always acquiesces at last in the innovation. What was the resisted novelty of yesterday is today one of the accepted principles of conservatism; it is now conservative only in affecting to resist the next innovation, which will tomorrow be forced upon its timidity and will be succeeded by some third revolution; to be denounced and then adopted in its turn. American conservatism is merely the shadow that follows Radicalism as it moves forward towards perdition. It remains behind it, but never retards it, and always advances near its leader. . . . Its impotency is not hard, indeed, to explain. It is worthless because it is the conservatism of expediency only, and not of sturdy principle. It intends to risk nothing serious for the sake of the truth, and has no idea of being guilty of the folly of martyrdom. It always when about to enter a protest very blandly informs the wild beast whose path it essays to stop, that its 'bark is worse than its bite,' and that it only means to save its manners by enacting its decent role of resistance: The only practical purpose which it now serves in American politics is to give enough exercise to Radicalism to keep it 'in wind,' and to prevent its becoming pursy and lazy, from having nothing to whip. No doubt, after a few years, when womenÂ’s suffrage shall have become an accomplished fact, conservatism will tacitly admit it into its creed, and thenceforward plume itself upon its wise firmness in opposing with similar weapons the extreme of baby suffrage; and when that too shall have been won, it will be heard declaring that the integrity of the American Constitution requires at least the refusal of suffrage to asses. There it will assume, with great dignity, its final position."

Posted by: Robert Lewis Dabney at January 12, 2014 10:20 AM (Ow1TJ)

232 I am a proud reader of this blog. Anything else I can do to help?

Posted by: Ruth H at January 12, 2014 02:40 PM (AoUdG)

233 What are the tumblers, levers, pins and ratchets of this Progressive machine? It seems to function like handcuffs on the mind itself. Because the machine is BF Skinners. Whose machine of course is: Animal Training. The most important American educator of the 20th century. Progtards are tards because of course they are not educated at all, they are conditioned . Of course all they can answer is Â“WowÂ…justÂ…WowÂ…Â”. They expect to utter the Prog bark and tail wag and get the reward from teacher. This was of course exhaustively detailed in Â“Dumbing DownÂ”. Warning Â– Christian motives. EVIL . Lower Status White STUPID . And yet they found and exhaustively detailed it. Also Â– and this was stupid Â– fought it at the PTA level across the country, naturally with at best mixed success. No Town Hall ever assembled beat a mere Castle, never mind a Crown. The free peasants of Europe made serfs never gained neither jack or shit by their pleas. They gained them in principle by Cluny being sponsored by the Pope and in practice by warmaking. The march of liberty was Knight == ) Archer ==) Pikeman==) Musketeer. The Church helped for itÂ’s own reasons. The English Church for instance enforced Magna Carta by pain of excommunication. Because it was a landholder. The Saxon and Norman Kings used the Fyrd Saxon militia and later local gentry to gain men and swords other than the Nobility. The Crown extended itÂ’s power through the local gentry. It was never the local free assemblies of peasants challenged the Castle and Crown and won anything, ever. There are lessons in the Battle for the Mind in America for anyone seeking to challenge the Prog machine. Lessons such as above, lessons on the great limitations of reason, the very lesson that you are not only conflicting with interest, you are in conflict with drones whoÂ’s very reason has been conditioned out of them. I mean..Wow. Just Wow. ItÂ’s entirely possible the Red Pill has no chance until theyÂ’ve either been bruised or see their own ruin looming Â– such as a college student looking at his bills. If it were free as in Europe or other places, would there be 5 reactionaries on this continent under 50? NO. And yes as the saga of the battle for reason itself lost in favor of animal training shows..the great limits of democracy, town hall meetings and all the rest including the Tea Party. The Tea party is the beginning of a journey, not a destination. It was never going to get us home. The important part is They Said NO . The rest of the Journey can be found in History. Anglo-Saxon and European History. If only we had a ChurchÂ….

Posted by: VXXC at January 13, 2014 02:11 AM (GeriL)

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