February 10, 2014

Do We Care If The Poor Don't Work?
— LauraW

Well, we should. Some of us don't. But we should.

But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work. The important thing is just making sure they have a decent standard of living, full stop, and if they choose Keynesian leisure over a low-paying job, thatÂ’s their business.

No, actually. No. It is not possible to argue this in front of anyone with a functioning brain, for more than three seconds.

Here's why: first of all, even conceding the very strange new notion that we are so wealthy we can let much of the population loaf, there is a thing on this planet we call adversity. Bad things happen. Industrial accidents, floods, economic devastation, massive crop failures, earthquakes, terrorist attacks. And so on.

Stores of excess wealth and widespread economic independence are good and necessary attributes to possess, when adversity strikes.

Douthat's assumption is that this is a time of plenty and things will carry on this way forever. This assumption has had a 100% guaranteed failure rate over the entire course of human history and will fail quite reliably in the future, probably very much sooner than we would like.

Dependents, or 'poor people' in Douthat's formulation, are absolutely defined by their inability to handle adversity. They have no stores of wealth. They cannot do a thing to help themselves, and this is a problem when adversity inevitably happens and the hands of capable people are full.

While the enormous wealth of a rich country may be able to keep millions of people floating on the dole for a good while in good times, bad times are another thing entirely. What you want when the sh*t hits the fan is a lot of scrappy individualists with skills and instincts and a productive acumen. People who are independent and helping themselves, their communities, and each other, directly.

Not a massive burden of helpless dependents, and its attendant slow, resource-hogging bureaucracy. The presence of a lot of dependents is not helpful when the prosperity of the country is not-so-prosperous, never mind downright endangered.

But against Douthat's central assumption is this; we are massively in debt as a nation. How can he say we can afford for people to loaf, when at the same time we are counting on their future productivity to pay down these bills? I'm at a loss to explain this massive oversight of logic.

And Douthat doesn't refer to these people as actually unable to work. He just says they are poor. So he's not talking about the profoundly disabled or infirm - people for whom publicly financed social services were originally intended. He's just talking about people who don't have enough money. Well how are they supposed to ever elevate themselves from this condition, unless they are encouraged or incentivized to work?

Douthat's assertion is nothing less than a green light for the continued willful and wide destruction of human potential. As if we haven't had enough of that in the last fifty years! Incentive is the mother of achievement, for almost all people. Remove the incentive, you destroy the potential greatness of the individual, and the future society that depends on such individuals, right in the cradle.

Finally there is the implicit insult in Douthat's assertion. The best way for me to elucidate this insult is to ask a question.

Faced with choosing between work, or being perpetual state-financed layabouts, what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do?

This is where cute philosophical fancies about 'the masses' crash with personal reality. Does anyone seriously think someone like Douthat would portray a life on the dole as an attractive lifestyle choice, to his own kids? I sincerely doubt it.

If some can be counted on to tell their own kids to go forth and achieve, while simultaneously telling others that they can sit home and collect a check, what is the real message here?

That it is hunky-dory if *you* never grow, earn, or discover the boundaries of your own success. We never really thought you had it in you, anyway.

Very sh*tty sentiment. Extremely so.

__________________

Just an aside: I asked the cobs what they thought of the Douthat column.

Dave in Texas:

Near as I can tell, the only point of this column is to be something that's supposed to sound smart to readers of the NYT. It's smart-sounding gibberish.

Gabriel:

I'm sorry, I couldn't really concentrate on it. I have no idea what it's about. It was boring.

Andy:

Rabbish!!!

When you realize you wasted hundreds of words on nothing.
Oh well.

At least it kept you and me occupied for a minute, right? Right.

Posted by: LauraW at 04:38 PM | Comments (335)
Post contains 808 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Idiots like Ross Douthat are *paid* to do this. Proof right there that there is no justice in the world. That motherfucker should be freezing, naked, on a corner in Red Hook, going through a dumpster for scraps. That's how much he contributes to society.

Posted by: grognard at February 10, 2014 04:39 PM (Be2Wn)

2 Good is bad, up is down, right is left, there is no God or ethics or morality, every action is just as good as any other action.

Just another work day at the NYT.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 04:42 PM (AW7Gr)

3 The idiot who wrote that piece should take a good solid look at what this approach has done for the UK. Able-bodied people who provided with a comfortable life with need to make any effort are going to be very bored. What they do to alleviate that boredom turns ugly in little time.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 04:43 PM (bPxS6)

4 I was going to read your article, but that was too much work.

Posted by: fluffy at February 10, 2014 04:43 PM (Ua6T/)

5 What he's advocating is something akin to Arab countries -- even the wealthy ones depend on foreign assistance to build big things, manage projects, train a military, etc.  They simply cannot run things on their own.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 10, 2014 04:43 PM (Guupx)

6 Shit is Shinola!

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 04:43 PM (bPxS6)

7 This should work out fine so long as the FSA has a very low fertility rate and you plan to kill off a lot of excess old people soon.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 04:45 PM (bPxS6)

8 Kieth Laumer's Retief stories cover this a lot. Devil makes work for idle hands.

Posted by: Huggy at February 10, 2014 04:46 PM (4WPfa)

9 The FSA is also violent.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 04:46 PM (6bMeY)

10 #3

Argh! What is happening to my typing?

That sentence should be : Able-bodied people who are provided with a comfortable life with no need to make any effort are going to be very bored.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 04:46 PM (bPxS6)

11 That picture of the penguin in the sidebar reminds me of a famous photo of an East German soldier defecting by tossing aside his rifle and stepping over the barbed wire in Berlin.

Posted by: fluffy at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (Ua6T/)

12 Right. Good post, LauraW. It makes an excellent companion piece to Monty's post earlier today. What is so hard to grasp about the necessity for people to produce before they can consume? You might as well argue for repeal of the law of gravity.

Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (sdi6R)

13 An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows

Posted by: Dwight D Eisenhower at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (Q6pxP)

14 Fuck the poor!

Posted by: The Roman Senate at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (wjJGE)

15 Does anyone seriously think someone like Douthat would portray a life on the dole as an attractive lifestyle choice, to his own kids?

Not the single-mother-in-Section-8 dole, no, but the one that gives people with good teeth and Ivy League degrees in largely worthless subjects six-fig publicly-funded salaries (and slush funds) to do nothing productive (indeed, to spend their time making life harder for the producers)? 

I absolutely believe he will be advising his kids to do that.

Posted by: HR at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (hO8IJ)

16 What do you do with people who don't want to work? I mean, there's no issue until adversity hits, like you said, but what then? I am not in favor of starving or freezing them. Maybe that encourages more of it, but I gotta draw a line somewhere.

Posted by: Stan at February 10, 2014 04:47 PM (MHgGF)

17 If being a layabout is an option. Why should I work? And what will be lost if I don't? Maybe nothing from me specifically. But in the billions of ideas exchanged by those that do work the loss is likely problematic. And pride self worth etc...

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 04:48 PM (TI3xG)

18 I think Mr. Douthat's article is right on the money.  My name is Nancy and I have 4 cats.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at February 10, 2014 04:48 PM (x/lJo)

19 Any chance of getting Ross Douchehat and other NYT writers to go on the dole and keep them from writing bullshit like this?

Posted by: Mike at February 10, 2014 04:49 PM (Q6lW+)

20 This tactic by the democrats has gone beyond vote buying. Now they are getting into brown shirt recruitment.

Posted by: New Cookies for Old! at February 10, 2014 04:49 PM (0iQNh)

21
It is not possible to argue this in front of anyone with a functioning brain, for more than three seconds.





Are you daring to disagree with noted National Review columnist Ross Douthat on the way forward for conservatism?

If so, then good day to you, Sir!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 10, 2014 04:50 PM (kdS6q)

22 Of course the poor should know the dignity of work. Hunchbacks, on the other hand...

Posted by: Jenny Likes Her Phone at February 10, 2014 04:50 PM (QULHk)

23 Able-bodied people who are provided with a comfortable life with no need to make any effort are going to be very bored.

I wouldn't be.

Posted by: HR at February 10, 2014 04:50 PM (hO8IJ)

24 Why would they work when I'm working for them? I mean, really, who's smarter here?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 04:51 PM (GEICT)

25 I absolutely believe he will be advising his kids to do that. And Heather is correct. He would not want his own children actually working-working or anything! kind of like dear ol' dad

Posted by: Black Orchid at February 10, 2014 04:51 PM (pS66t)

26 Like everything else  on any given day, I have a quota of words I can read.  I like coming here and using up some  of them on the nonsense that gets said.

I'm not going to waste any on this guy's article. 

Oh, and it's douchie to say "full stop."  Just use a damn period, jerk. 

Posted by: BurtTC at February 10, 2014 04:51 PM (BeSEI)

27 Are you daring to disagree with noted National Review columnist Ross Douthat on the way forward for conservatism? If so, then good day to you, Sir! Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 10, 2014 08:50 PM (kdS6q) Harumph!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 10, 2014 04:52 PM (oFCZn)

28 In an extremely productive society ... ample goods and services are available to even the least productive. They can survive on the margins. In an unproductive society ... the least productive die. No surplus exists to enable them. Which society do you think we live in ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 04:52 PM (6/+vz)

29 Remember how the parasitical FSA just sat like pigs waiting for their free swill during Katrina? Imagine a nationwide catastrophe?

Posted by: Avi at February 10, 2014 04:52 PM (p/izY)

30 When I get slow (and it's been a while! but I kind of remember it) omg I get craaaaazy! and I shop online a lot no work = shop a lot + watch tv + get paranoid + sex well that last part is pretty much always a given!

Posted by: Black Orchid at February 10, 2014 04:53 PM (pS66t)

31 Someone needs to teach Douchehat about that whole fish/fishing saying.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 04:53 PM (GrtrJ)

32
Ross Douthat ‏@DouthatNYT Feb 8

The ending of "Devil Wears Prada" never fails to infuriate me.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 10, 2014 04:54 PM (kdS6q)

33 In our society the most intelligent women have the fewest kids, While the least productive are subsidized to lower the gene pool one baby at a time.

Posted by: Avi at February 10, 2014 04:55 PM (p/izY)

34 28 In an extremely productive society ... ample goods and services are available to even the least productive. They can survive on the margins. In an unproductive society ... the least productive die. No surplus exists to enable them. Which society do you think we live in ? Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 08:52 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------- The one I'm fundamentally transforming.

Posted by: That F'n Guy at February 10, 2014 04:55 PM (DtNNC)

35 But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work. The important thing is just making sure they have a decent standard of living, full stop, and if they choose Keynesian leisure over a low-paying job, thatÂ’s their business. It's a foolproof plan!

Posted by: European Muslims on the dole at February 10, 2014 04:56 PM (S0eIZ)

36 29 Remember how the parasitical FSA just sat like pigs waiting for their free swill during Katrina? Imagine a nationwide catastrophe? Posted by: Avi at February 10, 2014 08:52 PM (p/izY) Oh yeah. Seared into the brain. I remember seeing a bunch of fat black people sitting around in the shade while white people scurried around getting them shit they needed. But forget about white, black, whatever. My girlfriend, watching the carnage unfolding on television, said, "Fuck that. We'd walk out of there." These fucking parasites couldn't even get off their fat asses and fucking walk out of there. Hell, they couldn't get out of there before the fucking storm hit. Zero sympathy.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 10, 2014 04:57 PM (oFCZn)

37 Remember how the parasitical FSA just sat like pigs waiting for their free swill during Katrina? Imagine a nationwide catastrophe?
Posted by: Avi at February 10, 2014 08:52 PM (p/izY)


I just jizzed my pants.

Posted by: Rhambo at February 10, 2014 04:57 PM (3a584)

38 The FSA is also violent.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 08:46 PM (6bMeY)

But also ill-organized, and unskilled in the use of arms or in self-defense. If the FSA goes on the warpath, it will be easy to shoot them down in droves.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 10, 2014 04:57 PM (pFqpP)

39 I haven't accomplished a lot today, but I never have to pay the least bit of attention to Ross Douthat again. So that's something, I guess.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 10, 2014 04:58 PM (JQuNB)

40 and the more people that stop being productive, the more sweat from my brow will be taken. I wonder... is there a word for a person who works while others enjoy the fruits of his labor?

Posted by: weew at February 10, 2014 04:58 PM (0tmLY)

41

But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work.




What's the successful ratio of workers to drones in a beehive?  Bet it's not the 1:1 our society is orbiting around.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 10, 2014 04:58 PM (kdS6q)

42 36 I remember seeing a bunch of fat black people sitting around in the shade while white people scurried around getting them shit they needed. Enabling. The word for that is Enabling. It's not just for Wives of Alcoholics.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 04:59 PM (6/+vz)

43 In this next segment I will play the role of The Devil.


We say they should work, but we forget that most of them are inept. At anything. And everything. That is WHY they are poor. So what do we do? Tell them to dig holes and then fill them in? 

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 04:59 PM (AW7Gr)

44 I can't believe supposedly smart, serious people are even debating this idea.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 10, 2014 04:59 PM (g1DWB)

45 40 I wonder... is there a word for a person who works while others enjoy the fruits of his labor? Posted by: weew at February 10, 2014 08:58 PM (0tmLY) Yeah, I know what you mean. It's on the tip of my tongue...

Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 05:00 PM (sdi6R)

46 You might as well argue for repeal of the law of gravity. Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 08:47 PM (sdi6R) Obama already did that by executive order.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at February 10, 2014 05:00 PM (zT0DN)

47 39 I haven't accomplished a lot today, but I never have to pay the least bit of attention to Ross Douthat again. So that's something, I guess. That would be a mistake, unless you like your Bliss via Ignorance. It Sucks ... but we're not immune from Politics. Not anymore.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:00 PM (6/+vz)

48

Windy City Help Out ‏@Bro_Pair Feb 9

Ross Douthat milked 4 years at Harvard for a stupid memoir and parlayed it into being a beardy boat shoe at the NYT.

He has never worked, ever




Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 10, 2014 05:01 PM (kdS6q)

49 Enabling. The word for that is Enabling. Many of those helping out were from the dreaded religious right

Posted by: Avi at February 10, 2014 05:01 PM (p/izY)

50 Douthat?? Why the fuck should I?

Posted by: FSA at February 10, 2014 05:01 PM (DtNNC)

51 If the poor don't work to provide their own material security they will resent or feel superior to those which do work and provide their financial security through taxation. This attitude in conjunction with an abundance of free time will lead to lives full of meaningless vice and crime against the other productive members of society. People that get through life living without earning a thing usually wind up being complete scumbags. Be it trustfund brats at the wealthy end of the spectrum or welfare sucking thugs on the bottom.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at February 10, 2014 05:01 PM (A1Dcl)

52 I can't believe supposedly smart, serious people are even debating this idea.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 10, 2014 08:59 PM (g1DWB)


This isn't a debate, we are being told that some people don't have to work.

Posted by: New Cookies for Old! at February 10, 2014 05:02 PM (0iQNh)

53 I think the reason why NBC isn't showing live coverage is so they can see who wins and do the human interest stories. The commentators are probably doing voiceovers after the event is over. That is how they know everything before it happens. This isn't Olympic coverage. This a series of shitty movies about the Olympics.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:02 PM (6bMeY)

54 Liberals are convinced that freeing people from work is a good idea. This begs the question though: when no one is working, how will the bills be paid? "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 10, 2014 05:02 PM (R+XDI)

55 I'd actually kinda prefer that Ross Douthat stop "working" if this garbage is the result.

Posted by: Weirddave at February 10, 2014 05:02 PM (N/cFh)

56 43 In this next segment I will play the role of The Devil. We say they should work, but we forget that most of them are inept. At anything. And everything. That is WHY they are poor. So what do we do? Tell them to dig holes and then fill them in? I'll play the role of Reality in this one. When your pantry is bare ... you really won't give two shits.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:03 PM (6/+vz)

57 I wonder... is there a word for a person who works while others enjoy the fruits of his labor? Posted by: weew at February 10, 2014 08:58 PM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't say it, or I will talk about pooping in your mouth.

Posted by: M. Bashir at February 10, 2014 05:03 PM (DtNNC)

58 Someone needs to teach Douchehat about that whole fish/fishing saying.>>

This one?

  No one in this town could catch any fish except this one man. The game warden asked him how he did it. The man told the game warden that he would take him fishing the next day. Once they got to the middle of the lake the man took out a stick of dynamite, lit it, and threw it in the water. After the explosion fish started floating to the top of the water. The man took out a net and started picking up the fish. The game warden told him that this was illegal. The man took out another stick of dynamite and lit it. He then handed it to the game warden and said " are you going to fish or talk".  

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:03 PM (TI3xG)

59 What is a slave Alex?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:04 PM (6bMeY)

60 Not a massive burden of helpless dependents, and its attendant slow, resource-hogging bureaucracy. This is something I have been touching on in regards to the three quarter million peeps in Pa who lost power in below threads. I looked at the WU radar map moments before we lost power. Clearly, the ice/rain line was north of Philadelphia. Yet thousands of residents of Philly called PECO (the major local provider) and claimed to be 'out'. Scarce resources -- which should have been used to bring people north of the ice/rain line back on line went to people who have become 'habituated' to demanding (and accepting) benefits from being 'victims' of the latest weather issue. They yell, and they get rewarded. After HC Sandy checks were handed out like candy to people who were not affected. Tonight a bunch of people who legitimately lost power north of the ice/rain border are going to endure 10 degree temps and have their plumbing systems destroyed or lose their lives while crews in Philly chase down the liars. Their vote is worth just as much as mine, but f*ck the FSA and its enablers.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at February 10, 2014 05:04 PM (CnA98)

61 when no one is working, how will the bills be paid?

Oh, there will be people working. It won't be their choice, either.

Posted by: New Cookies for Old! at February 10, 2014 05:04 PM (0iQNh)

62 Douthat's piece is the kind of hardcore, challenging conservatism I like to hear from writers like David Brooks.

Posted by: logprof at February 10, 2014 05:04 PM (X3GkB)

63 i'm glad laura dug this up for one big reason: a lot of people have been slobbering on douthat's knob lately. i've seen it all over twitter that righties seem to think there might be some brain activity at the nyt for what douthat has been bringing. so, maybe douthat has been playing the sensible type so he can then drop communism in people's laps like the post-scarcity bit laura quoted and they'll still think he's a jolly good guy to agree with.

Posted by: obamuh at February 10, 2014 05:04 PM (2whSJ)

64 I wonder... is there a word for a person who works while others enjoy the fruits of his labor?

Never in any human society has that person been considered the "privileged" class while the people with the leisure have been the "oppressed", until now.

Posted by: HR at February 10, 2014 05:05 PM (hO8IJ)

65 i just don't trust that the nyt has good people working for them.

Posted by: obamuh at February 10, 2014 05:06 PM (2whSJ)

66 They're really going all in on this "not having a job is a GOOD thing" aren't they? I hope all the garbage men, gardeners, machinists, waiters, janitors, plumbers, electricians ect all take this advice. Who needs em, right libs?

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:06 PM (hFL/3)

67 "post-scarcity society" not when we run out of other peoples money, and the printing press quits working.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 10, 2014 05:06 PM (gUoN4)

68 "This begs the question though: when no one is working, how will the bills be paid? " You are talking about people that think the government just creates money and wealth by printing paper and putting zeros on spreadsheets. They have no concept that a government declaring something doesn't just make it a reality. Why do you think Krugman is still taken seriously and given awards for declaring infinite debt is the solution to everything and perfectly sustainable, when anyone which has ever made a loan to a deadbeat friend or family members knows damn well it isn't.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at February 10, 2014 05:06 PM (A1Dcl)

69 What ever happened to the good old fashioned boot in the ass?  And shame?

Posted by: Fritz at February 10, 2014 05:07 PM (TKFmG)

70 49 Enabling. The word for that is Enabling. Many of those helping out were from the dreaded religious right. I'm sure that's true. If the shit ever truly hits the fan - don't look for me to bail out the local Baptists.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:07 PM (6/+vz)

71 What if we run out of the imaginary money that Chinese slaves love so much?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:07 PM (6bMeY)

72 64 Never in any human society has that person been considered the "privileged" class while the people with the leisure have been the "oppressed", until now. Posted by: HR at February 10, 2014 09:05 PM (hO8IJ) Sorta like the way modern American poor tend to be obese rather than emaciated.

Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 05:08 PM (sdi6R)

73 The poor should not have to work, but first they will blow me.

Posted by: wooga at February 10, 2014 05:08 PM (MqAB/)

74 What they do to alleviate that boredom turns ugly in little time.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 08:43 PM (bPxS6)

Is that the origin of the adult baby craze?

Posted by: Mindy at February 10, 2014 05:09 PM (mQwL2)

75 We also believe that people don't need to work. Please come down to Soylent Corp dorms where we will feed you lots of nice, fattening food.

Posted by: Soylent Corporation at February 10, 2014 05:10 PM (4+AaH)

76 Anyone have a good TV series I may have overlooked?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:10 PM (6bMeY)

77 The poor should not have to work, but first they will blow me.>>

Wait a minute with the right controls I might be convinced to a compromise on this subject.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:10 PM (TI3xG)

78 Is that the origin of the adult baby craze? Among other things, yes

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (gUoN4)

79 71 What if we run out of the imaginary money that Chinese slaves love so much? Then Money Saved won't be worth near as much as Money Spent - assuming you invested in the right Commodities.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (6/+vz)

80 I fear that Douthat's column is a harbinger of future bullshit at National Review itself.

Posted by: pst314 at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (T4dRn)

81 basically said that Wall-E shit was a Prophecy

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (FCHPk)

82
   Wonder what old Rossboy will do when Atlas shrugs?

Posted by: irongrampa at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (SAMxH)

83 The devil will find work for idle hands to do...

Posted by: Morrissey at February 10, 2014 05:11 PM (hFL/3)

84 Anyone have a good TV series I may have overlooked??

Just ended but Almost Human is pretty good so far.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:12 PM (TI3xG)

85
I wonder what percent of the population really understands that our standard of living (including those great society programs) is only possible because of that vast amount of debt.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 10, 2014 05:13 PM (n0DEs)

86 From each according to their ability to each according to their need is fantastic if you have needs but awful if you have abilities. Less philosophically if I am keeping someone it will be someone I both want to and am banging like a screen door in a hurricane.

Posted by: alexthechick SMODlings ho! at February 10, 2014 05:13 PM (7LEMD)

87 Dumbf*ck Douthat: "But it's also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work."

Yep. You could argue that. You could also argue that the moon is made of blue cheese. And that's how you get called Dumbf*ck by those in polite society. Those in less polite society would call you names not even fit for a Smart Military Blog.

Incomprehensible that this Dumbest of F*cks is employable. I'm just glad he's giving all of his money to charity and random dudes walking the street. He is doing that, right? 'Cause that would be "their business" and he wouldn't be a hypocrite.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 10, 2014 05:13 PM (eHIJJ)

88 84 I think I will give that a try. http://stream-tv.me/watch-almost-human-online/

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:14 PM (6bMeY)

89 I got obamaphone, I got EBT card, I got free obamacare, I got rent assistance, I got free dis and free dat, and soon I gonna get free everthing coz OBAMA gonna gimme everthing I wants. So go bang yo head on sidewalks cracker muthers. And ax yoself why yo ain't got nothin free.

Posted by: Obamaphone Bitch at February 10, 2014 05:14 PM (hpgw1)

90 BTW this kind of sentiment is exactly the type you would expect to hear while everything collapses.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 10, 2014 05:14 PM (vaY6j)

91 Anyone have a good TV series I may have overlooked??

The BBC Endeavor series and their Sherlock series also are pretty good.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 10, 2014 05:15 PM (n0DEs)

92 The Douhat endgame: http://tinyurl.com/k8llroj

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at February 10, 2014 05:16 PM (vJEpl)

93 86 Less philosophically if I am keeping someone it will be someone I both want to and am banging like a screen door in a hurricane. I hope you've got some non-law skills. Jurisprudence is going to be pretty down on the list.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:17 PM (6/+vz)

94 So I must conclude that the left and rino-right believe we can run this country as a giant ponzi-scheme, sucking our government-given paychecks from all the new formerly-illegal-and-now-tax-paying citizens from Mexico. Hopefully the new citizens won't catch on to our scheme and imitate it.

Posted by: irright at February 10, 2014 05:17 PM (DtNNC)

95 I have to say, when I move back up north (which I both dread and look forward to) I'm going to look into getting some of that sweet free shit for me.  It's time for me to get mine and stop watching my money bleed into everyone else's hands.

The only question is if my pride can handle it.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 05:18 PM (GrtrJ)

96 I'm starting to think attention whoring is a first world problem with "journalists."

Posted by: Seems legit at February 10, 2014 05:18 PM (A98Xu)

97 "Stores of excess wealth and widespread economic independence are good and necessary attributes to possess, when adversity strikes."

And we don't have even that. We have a bit of an illusion of that at the moment, but as times passes, the illusion will succumb to another reality: We're the most indebted nation the planet has ever seen. That store of wealth? We don't actually have it if we plan on paying our full obligations.

But people credit us with having it (wealth)... until they don't. And then what?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 10, 2014 05:18 PM (eHIJJ)

98 What ever happened to.... shame? Posted by: Fritz ------------------- That. There was a time in my memory when people were ashamed to be 'on the dole'.

Posted by: John Roberts at February 10, 2014 05:19 PM (aDwsi)

99 I skimmed the post; it's the best I can do. From what I gleened, the alternate post title can be: Is Conservativism Dead?

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:19 PM (Ti8mM)

100 95 The only question is if my pride can handle it. I bet not.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:20 PM (6/+vz)

101 Cripes, if these people had to live like people in the middle class, they would be advocating for a return to the status quo. He's just pissed that the NYT doesn't pay him double for his insights sound like some 3rd graders report on how to be fair. I wonder if he would be willing to take the job of a garbageman while the garbageman opined in the pages of the NYT. It would be the first time that the NYT had an editorial piece that would actually make sense,

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly known as MrCaniac at February 10, 2014 05:20 PM (HxSXm)

102 What's funny is that back in college I had some class where the professor was blathering on about the fact that despite all the social programs, the unemployment rate in England was similar to that of the US. Yes, I ventured, but what does the participation rate look like? Stutter, stutter, stutter. Now they have a response ..."that's a good thing! Glad we could match it!"

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:20 PM (hFL/3)

103 Anyone have a good TV series I may have overlooked?? ** What are you looking for? Comedy, drama?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 10, 2014 05:21 PM (DmNpO)

104 I was gonna go write some stuff, but then I got high Write a column for the New York Times, but then I got high Now I don't make a lick of sense, and I know whyyyyyy...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 10, 2014 05:21 PM (m9V0o)

105 I bet not. Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 09:20 PM (6/+vz)


Yeah, I bet not as well.  Maybe if I drink enough...

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 05:21 PM (GrtrJ)

106 84 -

Find the FX channel on your system.  Start watching.  You probably won't go wrong that way. 

That  being said, I've given up on Archer for the season.  Maybe they're just having a bad stretch.  I'll catch  up later, if need be.  If not, it's 22 minutes of my day I can spend doing something else. 

Posted by: BurtTC at February 10, 2014 05:22 PM (BeSEI)

107 99 I skimmed the post; it's the best I can do. From what I gleened, the alternate post title can be: Is Conservativism Dead? Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 09:19 PM (Ti8mM) Better would have been this; Welfare Queens: All Fruits of Your Labor Belong to Us

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 10, 2014 05:22 PM (R+XDI)

108 "But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work." This is so clueless I can barely respond. This imbecile seems to think that it is only the rich who are paying a buttload of taxes to support lazy bums who make a career out of sitting on their butts in front of the tv and having welfare babies. I worked my way through college, had a job that paid a moderate salary and benefits. Since I had no children, and therefore no deductions I paid taxes up the ass. Meanwhile my neighbor who was a career welfare recipient with 3 welfare children did nothing with her life but sit on her butt. The thing is, what I did, going to college without parents able to pay for it, can be accomplished by these welfare people, if they would just work harder instead of screwing around and making babies. My niece and nephew managed to go to college without help from their parents. I'm not ranting against people who have worked for years, found themselves out of work, and need foodstamps to feed their kids until they get their next job. My resentment is toward the people who make a career of doing nothing, and the liberals who encourage them to be bums.

Posted by: nerdygirl at February 10, 2014 05:22 PM (wf9Ji)

109 I have already accepted the fact that I'm a dinosaur soon to be extinct in this world. And when us dinosaurs are gone, the rest will soon follow. This civilization is on an unsustainable path.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:22 PM (Ti8mM)

110 "...I'm at a loss to explain this massive oversight of logic."

See #87 above.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 10, 2014 05:22 PM (eHIJJ)

111 95 The only question is if my pride can handle it. Your pride can not handle it.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 10, 2014 05:23 PM (hpgw1)

112 Probably for most of us here. Not working is a foreign concept. Yes we dream of having more control of our production. But do not dream of a life that produces nothing and only takes. Concepts that were engrained in us as children. But not everybody got that.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:23 PM (TI3xG)

113 That. There was a time in my memory when people were ashamed to be 'on the dole'. Posted by: John Roberts at February 10, 2014 09:19 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------ Until he got those pills, it was a bit embarrassing.

Posted by: Elizabeth Dole at February 10, 2014 05:23 PM (DtNNC)

114 103 Those are both good. There is still funny stuff?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:24 PM (6bMeY)

115 Bob's Burgers is very funny.

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:25 PM (hFL/3)

116 Every time I encounter someone who feels that the public should be *coerced* into taking care of *anyone*, I ask them if they have a spare bedroom, or a sofa. If 'yes', and it invariably is 'yes', then I tell them that the moment they personally make the sacrifice of having someone live with them for free, then they will have a moral basis for *asking* others to do the same. *Asking* mind you, not demanding. Until then they are just projecting their own guilt.

Posted by: John Roberts at February 10, 2014 05:25 PM (aDwsi)

117 99 From what I gleened, the alternate post title can be: Is Conservativism Dead? No more than Math or Human Nature. The Review Lesson, however, is going to be a motherfucker.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:25 PM (6/+vz)

118 Damn Roberts sock.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 05:26 PM (aDwsi)

119 When pride and character have been replaced by shameless and unaccountable, you know things are bad.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:26 PM (Ti8mM)

120

Meh

 

Kitteh > Douthat !!!

Posted by: The Awkward-Turtle at February 10, 2014 05:26 PM (o9JGc)

121 "But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society"

The _only_  respect in which today's USA is a "post-scarcity society" is in that there is no longer any need to worry about a scarcity of dollars. With the Federal Reserve eagerly standing ready to magic into existence every month however many tens of billions in new dollars are required to prop up the system.

That unfortunately does not scale. Nor will it last. The Fed has not discovered economic perpetual motion. At some point their magicking of new virtual money out of thin air will have to stop. At which time, life inside the financially engineered Manhattan luxodome where _Times_ op-ed people live will suddenly look very very different than how it does right now.

There will be no more talk of "post-scarcity" once the printing presses stop.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 05:26 PM (gqT4g)

122 119 -

The man is advocating for sloth.

They did not classify that  as one of the  seven deadly sins for nothing. 

Posted by: BurtTC at February 10, 2014 05:28 PM (BeSEI)

123 There was a time in my memory when people were ashamed to be 'on the dole'. Posted by: John Roberts There's no shame when it's just a tax!

Posted by: John Roberts at February 10, 2014 05:28 PM (S0eIZ)

124 what about people who just enjoy work? like the feeling of being productive? too bad, sit on your butt

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (UPEUp)

125 94 So I must conclude that the left and rino-right believe we can run this country as a giant ponzi-scheme, sucking our government-given paychecks from all the new formerly-illegal-and-now-tax-paying citizens from Mexico. Hopefully the new citizens won't catch on to our scheme and imitate it. Posted by: irright at February 10, 2014 09:17 PM (DtNNC) Every one of these illegals are paid under the table because they don't have the documentation to file their withholding taxes. So why in the hell do they think they will be contributing to Social Security or payroll taxes.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly known as MrCaniac at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (HxSXm)

126 >I am not in favor of starving or freezing them.

Don't worry, it won't be you doing it.  It will be Reality, and he is a notorious motherfucker.

Posted by: DanInMN at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (Z0Wdv)

127 When on a daily basis you're arguing abortion, income equality, free health care, and, yes, men having husbands, you know the civilization is FUNDAMENTALLY screwed up.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (Ti8mM)

128 Bob's Burgers is very funny. *** It's really grown on me. I like it. I need to catch up on my Showtime series: House of Lies and Episodes

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (DmNpO)

129 I don't want to have to pay for any of my things!

Posted by: Peggy Joseph at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM (Aif/5)

130 There will be no more talk of "post-scarcity" once the printing presses stop. No ... that's the problem. Once the tractors stop, and the turbines stop, it doesn't fucking matter how much they print. You can't eat enough of those bills to get full. You can't burn 'em fast enough to stay warm. It's coming.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 05:30 PM (6/+vz)

131 121 The Fed has not discovered economic perpetual motion. At some point their magicking of new virtual money out of thin air will have to stop. At which time, life inside the financially engineered Manhattan luxodome where _Times_ op-ed people live will suddenly look very very different than how it does right now. Today obamacare postponed, tomorrow Zimbabwe.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 10, 2014 05:30 PM (hpgw1)

132 I have already accepted the fact that I'm a dinosaur soon to be extinct in this world. And when us dinosaurs are gone, the rest will soon follow. This civilization is on an unsustainable path. Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 09:22 PM (Ti8mM) "And the Gods of the Copybook Headings with fire and slaughter return !"

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 10, 2014 05:31 PM (gUoN4)

133 Preach what you practice

Posted by: Not Prager at February 10, 2014 05:31 PM (R6JT1)

134 105 Yeah, I bet not as well. Maybe if I drink enough... Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 09:21 PM (GrtrJ) Extreme levels of alcoholism seems to be a recurring theme in heavily socialist societies.

Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 05:31 PM (sdi6R)

135 Ugh, this society just plain old disgusts me.  We are due for a reckoning.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 05:31 PM (GrtrJ)

136 It's almost as if the left is planning for some kind of massive food shortage and wants an ample supply of urban cattle so they can keep the soylent green factories running around the clock.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 05:32 PM (bPxS6)

137 The House of Smug: Welfare is Coming

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 10, 2014 05:32 PM (R+XDI)

138 how is it possible to be "post-scarcity"?

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 10, 2014 05:32 PM (wZwG0)

139 what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do? The perfect way to expose any Liberal argument. Sorry if this has already been said.

Posted by: tbodie at February 10, 2014 05:32 PM (L2I78)

140 Apparently there are plenty of giraffes to kill and eat, so we have that going for us, which is nice.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:33 PM (Ti8mM)

141 139 what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do?

The perfect way to expose any Liberal argument. Sorry if this has already been said. Posted by: tbodie at February 10, 2014 09:32 PM (L2I7


See comment #15.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 05:33 PM (GrtrJ)

142 Someone has got to pay for these kids.

Posted by: Angel Adams at February 10, 2014 05:34 PM (Aif/5)

143 Apparently there are plenty of giraffes to kill and eat, so we have that going for us, which is nice. >>

Do you live in Busch Gardens?

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:34 PM (TI3xG)

144 See comment 15: I should have known. Guess I'll go read the comments now.

Posted by: tbodie at February 10, 2014 05:35 PM (L2I78)

145 For every $5 in coins and currency there is another $95 in zeros on a banks computer.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:35 PM (6bMeY)

146 No but I think I have a Toys R Us near me.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:35 PM (Ti8mM)

147 Ugh, this society just plain old disgusts me. We are due for a reckoning. Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 09:31 PM (GrtrJ I am not joking that I am rooting for SMOD. At least then the reckoning will be fast rather than lingering and viciously brutal.

Posted by: alexthechick SMODlings ho! at February 10, 2014 05:35 PM (JsoNA)

148 >>what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do? >>The perfect way to expose any Liberal argument. Sorry if this has already been said. >>Posted by: tbodie at February 10, 2014 09:32 PM (L2I7 >>See comment #15. Better yet, read the post.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (g1DWB)

149

I hate these fuckers.  I had to go on foods stamps years ago for a few months.  Had a little one.  It was when they still had the actual 'stamps.'  I would go at 6 in the am when they opened and no one was there.  I didn't buy junk, milk, bread, eggs, cheese, veggies, burger.

 

I hate what our Country has turned into.

Posted by: Infidel at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (6bvBO)

150 This is actually a SoCon issue. The fact is that DOH!hut's column would never have been written when the country as a whole more fully shared real Christian values.

Christianity teaches that sloth is a sin and work a virtue. Once we were sufficiently unified in faith that those things need not be debated in the public square. The negative feedback for sloth was to be looked down upon by your fellows. In other words they JUDGED you to be in error. The resulting shame motivated people to better themselves.

But now JUDGING is the only sin.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (IVgIK)

151 Apparently there are plenty of giraffes to kill and eat, so we have that going for us, which is nice. I make for a delightful amuse bouche.

Posted by: Clubbed Baby Seal at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (S0eIZ)

152

[from quoted text:] ... if they choose Keynesian leisure over a low-paying job, thatÂ’s their business.

 

"Keynesian leisure"...?

 

So in their minds, they're creating a 'leisure class' out of the poor.

Because, Social Justice.

 

So we've got a leisure class at the bottom...and a leisure class at the top.

Problem is, the leisure class at the top is much smaller, and at least they pay some taxes into the system.

 

Another problem, is that many of the 'leisure poor' engage in all sorts of activities to make money...off the radar...that add to the crime rate.

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (eCZwh)

153 I hope you've got some non-law skills. Jurisprudence is going to be pretty down on the list. Posted by: ScoggDog at February 10, 2014 09:17 PM (6/+vz) Were you trying to be insulting there?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (GEICT)

154 139 what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do? The perfect way to expose any Liberal argument. Sorry if this has already been said. Posted by: tbodie at February 10, 2014 09:32 PM (L2I7 It has but it deserves an answer. He would tell his children to work, in the sense of a NYT writer, which is to say not at all. They will earn money, but not wealth, for they contribute nothing to the greater good. What wealth they do obtain will be from others who did produce, who they will demand that they transfer more of their wealth to the poor because fairness and economic justice as Marx meant it.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 10, 2014 05:36 PM (R+XDI)

155 >>> ""I am not in favor of starving or freezing them.""

"Don't worry, it won't be you doing it. It will be Reality, and he is a notorious motherfucker."

I just delivered a fresh new shipment of "global warming" to all those whiny little blue-state liberal nitwits, too.

Wonder how they're going to take it a decade from now when it becomes clear that what I'm showing up with next is a full blown Maunder Minimum.

Enjoy those solar panels and windmills when they're perpetually buried in ice!

Posted by: Reality, a notorious motherfucker at February 10, 2014 05:37 PM (gqT4g)

156 No but I think I have a Toys R Us near me.>>

What kind of beans did they fill Beany Babies with? I know a collector that may be a food source if they are edible.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 10, 2014 05:38 PM (TI3xG)

157 113 That. There was a time in my memory when people were ashamed to be 'on the dole'. Posted by: John Roberts at February 10, 2014 09:19 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------ Until he got those pills, it was a bit embarrassing. Posted by: Elizabeth Dole at February 10, 2014 09:23 PM (DtNNC) I don't often say this, in fact I think this Is the 1st time, but thread fuckin' winner.

Posted by: Weirddave at February 10, 2014 05:38 PM (N/cFh)

158 I don't give a tinkers damn if they work or not. I also don't care if the starve or freeze to death. Their choice.

Posted by: Javems at February 10, 2014 05:38 PM (c8xU9)

159 When on a daily basis you're arguing abortion, income equality, free health care, and, yes, men having husbands, you know the civilization is FUNDAMENTALLY screwed up.
Posted by: Soothsayer
--------------------------

At the molecular level.

Your statement is most profound, and yet to simple.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 10, 2014 05:39 PM (4Mv1T)

160
   If it all stopped tomorrow, our family could survive. Not luxuriously, but comfortably.

   Because collectively, we have the skills needed. 

   Why?

   Because of the manner in which we were brought up.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 10, 2014 05:39 PM (SAMxH)

161 I like the story of how you trap wild pigs.  If you shoot one, the rest run away.
But, start feeding them. Every day put out some food.
Now, erect a section of fence close to the food. They will still come and eat.
Next week, erect another section of fence.
And next week, do the same for a third section of fence. All the while, keep the food coming.
Finally erect the final section of fence with a one way door.
You got your herd.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 05:39 PM (AW7Gr)

162 Apparently we're the bad guys. Of course. Infuriating link in sig

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:39 PM (hFL/3)

163 When a group of political academics can successfully rebrand an obvious fraud such as global warming with a simple name change, you know the human race has seen better days.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:40 PM (Ti8mM)

164 I see a few people have already mentioned Katrina and New Orleans, but missed this -- Interviews with people who didn't leave before the storm had a consistent theme. They didn't get out because they couldn't. No car, no gas money, no credit card to rent a car or hotel room, couldn't figure out a way to get their pets out with them, and so on. So they stayed....and many drowned.
 
They had no resources but their gubmint checks. No savings, no plan. Waiting for the next installment of the easy life. And when things went tits up, they went a lootin'. That included some cops, btw.
 
NO's recovery was also a very slow affair compared to the MS Gulf Coast, which took the brunt of the storm. The main reason imho is that the outlook of the people which reside in each area was different. Git-r-dun vs wait for the gubmint.
 
There was also the fact that there was a tremendous influx of volunteers here (I don't know how big this was in NO) that made a huge difference. They chose to come here and labor for free and live in primitive conditions for weeks on end. They came and gave a hand up, and didn't need a gubmint to tell them to do so. Your contributions have not been forgotten.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 10, 2014 05:40 PM (cHZB7)

165 "But now JUDGING is the only sin."

It's always fun to mention to liberals how when they say they "don't believe in being judgmental," that they are thereby unavoidably engaging in an act of judgement.

Eyes spinning like a one-armed bandit in Vegas, I tell you. It's a jackpot of embarrassed realization at their own cant. If only it had a negotiable cash value.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 05:40 PM (gqT4g)

166 so simple. not to simple


Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 10, 2014 05:41 PM (4Mv1T)

167 155 That's the one I can never remember. The Maunder Minimum and the Medieval Warm Period are the Sun and Moon of climate science.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 05:41 PM (6bMeY)

168 The thing is, what I did, going to college without parents able to pay for it, can be accomplished by these welfare people, if they would just work harder instead of screwing around and making babies. My niece and nephew managed to go to college without help from their parents. I'm not ranting against people who have worked for years, found themselves out of work, and need foodstamps to feed their kids until they get their next job. My resentment is toward the people who make a career of doing nothing, and the liberals who encourage them to be bums. Posted by: nerdygirl at February 10, 2014 09:22 PM (wf9Ji) My brother in law married some idiot skank who had a bunch of kids. The oldest daughter upon graduating from high school was accepted into a nursing program run by the local hospital. They would pay for her nursing degree if she would work parttime for them while in school, and then for 3 years after graduation. She declined. That was 6 years ago, she has now had 2 babies, not married, living in Section 8 housing, getting WIC, EBT and everything else all while not even being able to hold a part time job. 24 years old and a welfare queen. Her younger sister graduated high school last year, I told my wife, MIL and FIL that she would be pregnant within a year. She was pregnant 2 months out of high school, and she doesn't have a job. Care to guess who Obama appeals to?

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly known as MrCaniac at February 10, 2014 05:41 PM (HxSXm)

169 107 99 Welfare Queens: All Fruits of Your Labor Belong to Us Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 10, 2014 09:22 PM (R+XDI) Corollary: The laborers are not entitled to the fruits of their own labor.

Posted by: Mindy at February 10, 2014 05:42 PM (mQwL2)

170 OK, I slept horribly last night and so gonna head to bed and read for a bit before sacking out.

See you way too early in the morning, Horde.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 10, 2014 05:42 PM (GrtrJ)

171 From that link .... " Workcarries an inherent dignity, but just incase that isn’t enough, the GOP seems tobe saying, let’s make joblessness as painful as possible, and let’s lock people into jobs sothat theycan’t leave them—even if theywant to." *head spins in circles * No, fuckbrains. The problem is that Obamacare is costing people their jobs and Obama's pathetic economy means there is no way to replace them. It isnt freedom. *spews peasoup vomit*

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:43 PM (hFL/3)

172 Evening all. So my girls are out of town this week, and they got me a present to enjoy during my temporary bachelorhood - a bottle of Balvenie 17 year Doublewood. I am a very lucky man.

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 05:44 PM (eQJwb)

173 165 "But now JUDGING is the only sin." Evan Sayet was brilliant on this in his speech at Heritage. It's a must see if you consider yourself "conservative". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c

Posted by: Weirddave at February 10, 2014 05:44 PM (N/cFh)

174 At least then the reckoning will be fast rather than lingering and viciously brutal. SMOD will not be required. We're getting what we deserve for letting it get this bad.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 10, 2014 05:45 PM (m9V0o)

175 *sidles over to DC* Hi. How you doin'

Posted by: alexthechick SMODlings ho! at February 10, 2014 05:46 PM (ro5dE)

176 A few points:

1. The left seems to be of the opinion that work in and of itself has no real value. I disagree. All honest work has value, in the you are becoming productive and learning a variety of skills.

2. In a society of "leisure" where no one works, society IMHO will regress because there is no incentive to progress. You have your allotted luxuries, and you will get them, no matter what. So why try? Just sit home all day, take your SOMA, play video game and masturbate.

3. In a post work society, there is only one benefactor: the ruling class who doles out the rewards. Who ever promises the proles the most will be in power FOREVER.

/so, are we now transitioning into Communism? If so, I think I probably need to work on becoming some sort of "protected class Czar" so I can live better than the proles.

Posted by: shibumi at February 10, 2014 05:46 PM (25HWz)

177 " Because of the manner in which we were brought up" A country boy can survive.

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:46 PM (hFL/3)

178 Maybe Ace scored a Screener of 'Winter's Tale'?

Posted by: garrett at February 10, 2014 05:46 PM (JaET6)

179 I am old enough to remember a time where, if you did not like your job or thought you could do better, you just gave your notice and quit. You headed out for greener pastures.

These days, there are so few jobs that I think that option may indeed be rare. But I hardly blame Republicans for that fact.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 05:46 PM (AW7Gr)

180 I'm not a Douthat fan, but I think what he's doing, albeit poorly, is presenting two ways of looking at the issue.  He even says "There are hints of a division within the liberal mind on this issue."  He ends with this (I think "our allies" is the key phrase):

"On the conservative side, things are somewhat clearer. There are libertarians who like the basic income idea, but only as a substitute for the existing welfare state, not as a new expansion. Both “rugged individualist” right-wingers and more communitarian conservatives tend to see work as essential to dignity, mobility and social equality, and see its decline as something to be fiercely resisted.

The question is whether tomorrowÂ’s liberals will be our allies in that fight."



Posted by: Stinkylegs at February 10, 2014 05:47 PM (an0nj)

181 Poor is a modifier used to describe things like posture, breath, or grammar. We don't have poor people in this country, but we do apparently have poor columnists, and a large nimber of those are gainfully employed at the NYT, where there seems to be enormous generosity of spirit to the misguide and confused.

Posted by: ontherocks at February 10, 2014 05:47 PM (/sleM)

182 177 A country boy can survive. Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 09:46 PM (hFL/3) Damn right!

Posted by: Daryl Dixon at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (UAMVq)

183 remember, it all started with that idiotic fabricated celebration of 'single moms' and don't you judge them!!

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (Ti8mM)

184 "I see a few people have already mentioned Katrina and New Orleans, but missed this -- Interviews with people who didn't leave before the storm had a consistent theme. They didn't get out because they couldn't. No car, no gas money, no credit card to rent a car or hotel room, couldn't figure out a way to get their pets out with them, and so on."

For decades, literally decades before Katrina, the federal hurricane authorities consistently said that New Orleans was indefensible against a direct hit by even a Cat 1 cane.

And, the feds said, the total evacuation was going to be required. Of everyone, including the urban poor with no wheels and no cash.

The NOLA municipal authorities and the Louisiana state authorities both said, "Of course. Message received. No worries. We got this. Could you send us some more money to help with those preparations? Thank you kindly."

Then when Katrina showed up on the satellites, Max Mayfield of the NHC made the call, and he said to Nagin and Landrieu, "OK, this is the big one. It's time to go to the plan. The way we always discussed it. Get everyone out of the city the way you said you were ready to. You have forty-eight hours, go."

Oh! Guess what? No organized evac plan existed. The federal money meant for same had quietly lined ten thousand pockets instead.

You can't fix stupid and you can't cure crazy. New Orleans is crazy AND stupid, and completely corrupt all the way down to the lowest level official.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (gqT4g)

185 But itÂ’s also possible to argue that as a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work. *** Isn't that analogous to saying that a well fed healthy body shouldn't worry about that cluster of rapidly growing cancer cells?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (g4TxM)

186 No need for schools in Loaferfville. Cut out there Dem school system and magic loafer money.

Posted by: madamex at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (1zsKV)

187 Garrett, I literally laughed out loud. Loudly.

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (hFL/3)

188 ....a very large nimber

Posted by: ontherocks at February 10, 2014 05:48 PM (/sleM)

189 Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly known as MrCaniac at February 10, 2014 09:29 PM (HxSXm) Which is why the ones I know won't apply for citizenship if amnesty goes through. I'm a contractor and, while I don't ploy illegals. Many of the subs do. I think the biggest misconception is that they are making slave wages. They are not. What they make under the table would equal about 50 or 60k if they were paying taxes, etc. Add that to the wives & kids getting welfare, food stamps, med care, etc & you're now up to about 70k. Then there is the fact that they are workaholics and work many side jobs & you up to god knows how much. Just go to a Walmart & see them buying everything that's not nailed down. Nice folk who work like mules and can't blame them for taking advantage of our stupidity.

Posted by: EdMorrissey'sweatyballsack at February 10, 2014 05:49 PM (b9+ZZ)

190

171...The problem is that Obamacare is costing people their jobs

 

Oh, haven't you heard?

New IRS rules prohibit employers from laying off people...or reducing their hours...because of ObamaCare!

 

Megyn Kelly was just talking about this.

 

So now, employers must prove to the IRS that any layoffs or firings or reductions in hours...is *not* due to ObamaCare.  

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 05:49 PM (eCZwh)

191 Those three fellows you queried at the end of your post have good bullshit detectors. All those poor sods on the dole will always vote Democrat so Obozo and the boys don't give a flying fling that they can't find work.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at February 10, 2014 05:49 PM (wdHk6)

192 106 84 - Find the FX channel on your system. Start watching. You probably won't go wrong that way. That being said, I've given up on Archer for the season. Maybe they're just having a bad stretch. I'll catch up later, if need be. If not, it's 22 minutes of my day I can spend doing something else. Posted by: BurtTC at February 10, 2014 09:22 PM (BeSEI) --Isn't The Americans about to return? Also The Vikings (History)?

Posted by: logprof at February 10, 2014 05:49 PM (X3GkB)

193 >>>175 *sidles over to DC* Hi. How you doin' Does this mean I can have a smallpox-free blanket in Alextopia? *pours a double onto ipad* *pours a double into self*

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 05:49 PM (eQJwb)

194 You can't fix stupid and you can't cure crazy. New Orleans is crazy AND stupid, and completely corrupt all the way down to the lowest level official. very true and yet I have a friend who worked for a Dem mayor of NO . . . then left and came up here to work for Philly's Mayor John Street . . . and learned what REAL corruption was all about.

Posted by: Black Orchid at February 10, 2014 05:50 PM (pS66t)

195 First you make it damn near impossible to hire someone legally, then you try to change public opinion as to how this is a good thing.

Gotta love Dems. Or not.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 05:51 PM (AW7Gr)

196 179 I am old enough to remember a time where, if you did not like your job or thought you could do better, you just gave your notice and quit. You headed out for greener pastures. These days, there are so few jobs that I think that option may indeed be rare. But I hardly blame Republicans for that fact. Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 09:46 PM (AW7Gr) Job lock is when Democrat policies have caused such a severe contraction in the job market that you are afraid to quit the job you hate because the probability of finding any other job, much less a better one, is so low.

Posted by: Mindy at February 10, 2014 05:52 PM (mQwL2)

197 Wheatie, I..just..what..SO.MUCH.STUPID.

Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 05:53 PM (hFL/3)

198 Yes, Archer has jumped the shark, the Americans are coming back in two weeks,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 10, 2014 05:54 PM (Jsiw/)

199 Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 09:48 PM (gqT4g) Crazy in more ways than one. Two of my best sex romps were in Westwego and Chlamette (sp)

Posted by: EdMorrissey'sweatyballsack at February 10, 2014 05:55 PM (Op+RR)

200 I can't help but think of "The Time Machine" future of two societies. The Eloi were a leisure class having everything provided for them by the Morlocks who lived below. Works fine until you consider the diet of the Morlocks...

Posted by: Bookdoc at February 10, 2014 05:55 PM (Opyrm)

201 Reality - Ah yes..., Solar! I don't know if you understand how the solar scam works, but basically it is this (with variations); A greenie homeowner buys a PV array from a company, to which are assigned the rights to the Renewable Energy Credits. Those credits are in turn sold either to a wholsaler, or directly to a power company. The PV vendor, in turn agrees to share the money he gets with the homeowner. I attach here a note I received from my uber-Lib friend who has been smuggly touting his panels for about a year now. The note is actually from a friend of my friend, who was a part of setting up the original deal. What happened is, the PV vendor used the assigned RECs as collateral, borrowed cash from a bank, and scarpered. Heh, heh. So now friend has $20,000 in solar panels, and nooooo payback. ------------------------------------------------- xxxx, I heard from a colleague that the doors are closed and the payrolls bounced. Very sad state of things. I don't know what to tell you John. I think he'll probably be arrested for the payroll infraction but that doesn't get you control of your SRECs. You could try the MHIC. (Maryland Home Improvement Commission) as well as the PSC (Public Service Commission) I think you will be able to get control eventually. I heard from one of the employees something about the banks having loaned him money against the SRECs so that is probably what is going on with your money being tied up. A nightmare for everyone. I am so glad I left a year ago, but feel really bad for you and the customers that entrusted your business to Greenspring and all the employees that did not receive their pay. Im sorry there is nothing else I can think of to help you. xxxxx

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 05:56 PM (aDwsi)

202

Job lock is when Democrat policies have caused such a severe contraction in the job market that you are afraid to quit the job you hate because the probability of finding any other job, much less a better one, is so low.

 

^^^^THIS

 

There is no way I would quit my job right now.  Nothing to replace it with and I have a morgage to pay.

Posted by: Infidel at February 10, 2014 05:56 PM (6bvBO)

203 Alright enough with the sidling. You're wearing out the couch cushions.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 05:56 PM (Ti8mM)

204 Does this mean I can have a smallpox-free blanket in Alextopia?

*pours a double onto ipad*

*pours a double into self* Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 09:49 PM (eQJwb)


Why, yes, yes, it does.


*sticks mouth under usb port*  Mmmmmm.


Megyn Kelly was just talking about this.

So now, employers must prove to the IRS that any layoffs or firings or reductions in hours...is *not* due to ObamaCare.

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 09:49 PM (eCZwh)


I just let out a torrent of profanity and blasphemy so long and intense I'm rather surprised that I wasn't hit by lightning. 




Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 05:56 PM (Gk3SS)

205 "Does this mean I can have a smallpox-free blanket in Alextopia?"

A blanket? Luxury! Even with the smallpox.

We 'ad to make do with a frayed 'and towel. Full of bubonic plague. The thirty of us would take turns sleeping under it. Two minutes each every hour.

Posted by: Four Yorkshiremen at February 10, 2014 05:57 PM (gqT4g)

206 Does anyone seriously think someone like Douthat would portray a life on the dole as an attractive lifestyle choice, to his own kids? Sadly, yes.

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 10, 2014 05:58 PM (XvHmy)

207 Maybe Douthat needs to consider not working.

Posted by: --- at February 10, 2014 05:58 PM (MMC8r)

208 mortgage.  Geez my spelling sucks tonight.

Posted by: Infidel at February 10, 2014 05:58 PM (6bvBO)

209 Ah Empress, this entails being fluent in other languages like Spanish, to fully enunciate the sentiment,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 10, 2014 05:59 PM (Jsiw/)

210 Problem is, most ficons act like as if that choice actually exists.

Those who lost their jobs or are unable to find work during the last 6 years can't find a job to offset the loss of government benefits.

But Ficons demand that the welfare tap be turned off now despite their being little available work now for those affected.

Somehow they think that the poor will find work if they just give them incentive enough.

But that's not true and the ficons should admit that. But it's just too easy to cast the blame for our deficit on those who have little influence over it and ignore the real welfare queens; top heavy defense industries and DOD procurement procedures that are conducive for graft/overpayments, gov't contracts bid out without notice or awarded without bidding, welfare benefit payment systems that reward the administrators of them with no oversight on inspections and investigation, myriad special laws/rules, payments slipped into irrelevant legislation earmarked for certain Reps districts, rules/laws written to favor certain participants over others, the list goes on. There's plenty of waste and fraud in gov't, just that most of it's not where they're looking.

Ever notice how when it's time to cut the budget, the Dems always go for DOD stuff first and the Reps always go for the welfare first.

Somehow none of the other waste ever gets cut.

Interesting that.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Lone Wolf Lunatic) at February 10, 2014 05:59 PM (LSDdO)

211 This is also the underlying thread to the Laura Ingraham/ George Will divide; Will claims we are in international competition for labor while straight-facedly ignoring the numbers of unemployed, particularly the 18% unemployed black males.

Will and the other blue bloods seem to have written off black Americans. And this DOH!hut column is another nail in the coffin. If you squint real hard between the lines you might see some stereotypin goin on.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at February 10, 2014 05:59 PM (IVgIK)

212 #184

And don't forget the greatest symbol of New Orleans leadership: The Graveyard of Drowned Buses.
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2005/10/04/never-flooded-n.php

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 05:59 PM (bPxS6)

213 By the way, Douthat and his ilk are fine with people living indefinitely off money taken out of our paychecks. Any bets as to whether he would ever in a million years live in the neighborhood of welfare people, or better yet, send his kids or grandchildren to schools where the majority of the kids are from welfare families? Most people like this wouldn't touch a welfare recipient with a ten foot pole. And they sure as hell don't want them in their own neighborhoods.

Posted by: nerdygirl at February 10, 2014 06:00 PM (wf9Ji)

214 Eh.  Douthat writes:

"There are hints of a division within the liberal mind on this issue. Across the left and center-left, thereÂ’s agreement that an unequal society requires a thicker social safety net, and that as technological changes undercut low-wage work, government should help those left behind."

He's discussing the fissure within liberaldom.  And with political Dems staring Oblivion in the face, you can bet there's plenty of discussion going on behind closed doors on "where do we go from here?"  Ross Douthat is no liberal. The MSM loves to play up TP vs. Establishment, but when it comes to the harpoon in the guts of the Great Liberal Whale - well -crickets-.  Good for Douthat for writing this too short column.

Posted by: mrp at February 10, 2014 06:00 PM (JBggj)

215 Since I'm bored, I typed "I'm bored" into google, and promptly got lost down the rabbit hole. Here's one cool site. I did it 6 times and it was right every time. crazycardtrick.com

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:00 PM (eQJwb)

216 And don't forget the greatest symbol of New Orleans leadership



They were eating people in the Superdome!!!!

Posted by: Shep Smith at February 10, 2014 06:00 PM (Aif/5)

217

197 Wheatie,

 

I..just..what..SO.MUCH.STUPID.

 

---------

 

Oh it's worse than 'stupid'...it's diabolical lawlessness.

 

These new IRS regulations will enable Barky and the Donks to say:

"See! There are no firings and layoffs due to ObamaCare!"

 

The employers have to "Swear under penalty of perjury" that any layoffs, firings or reductions in hours...are not due to ObamaCare.

 

And they've now turned the IRS into a new Lawmaking Body.

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 06:00 PM (eCZwh)

218 and another state gives up on marriage Nevada is okay with men having husbands. God help us. Gov Sandoval (R) threw in the towel.

Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 06:01 PM (Ti8mM)

219 I disagree. The poor should not be forced to work. They (the unworking poor) should be deported to Belize or the Congo and see what it really means to be poor.

Posted by: RoadRunner at February 10, 2014 06:02 PM (kw1xk)

220 I'm confused. I thought that the article was FOR the poor working. The quote which Laura W used was describing possible liberal arguments if one was to adopt a liberal perspective, which Ross doesn't. This isn't twaddle. It's just a very tactful way of critiquing the left.

Posted by: darii at February 10, 2014 06:02 PM (/8gIB)

221 If I were made temporary dictator people would want 'off the dole' w/o having to actually force them to work or starve/freeze to death.   I would do away with EBT cards, section 8 housing,  SSDI,  everything where they have any control over money they didn't earn.     Food program is a soup kitchen.  Well not literally a soup kitchen but it would be a school type cafeteria.  Come in,  select from very limited choices and eat in the cafeteria.     Shelter would be army barracks style, with dorm rooms for folks with young kids.   etc etc.     Recreation is CSPAN and some educational documentaries,  maybe cartoons for the kids and a library with books but no porn. 

 I think wanting choices, privacy etc etc would incentive almost everyone to get themselves off that system as fast as they could.   But what we have now is that if you are on welfare  uncle Sam will punish you for wanting off the plantation by taking away a full dollar for every dollar you earn.   Takes extra ambition and extra ability to see oneself in the future with a good job that allows an actual better lifestyle to slog through entry level work for no immediate increase in discretionary income. 

Posted by: palerider at February 10, 2014 06:02 PM (dkExz)

222 Douthat Means Asshat in Peruvia.

Posted by: Gerry Owen at February 10, 2014 06:03 PM (4ABat)

223 and another state gives up on marriage Nevada is okay with men having husbands. God help us. Gov Sandoval (R) threw in the towel. Posted by: Soothsayer at February 10, 2014 10:01 PM (Ti8mM) Heaven forbid that a state's officials defend that state's Constitution!

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 10, 2014 06:03 PM (XvHmy)

224 >>A country boy can survive. Posted by: Lauren at February 10, 2014 09:46 PM (hFL/3) You sem to be kind of a girly boy. Â…Â…NTTAWWT

Posted by: ontherocks at February 10, 2014 06:03 PM (/sleM)

225 crazycardtrick.com Posted by: DC --------------- WTF?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 06:04 PM (aDwsi)

226 Posted by: GnuBreed at February 10, 2014 09:40 PM (cHZB7)

A great many people in New Orleans stayed because storms always turned north at the last minute. Locals, like myself, never really expected it to hit the city. They just never did. We evacuated just because we didn't want to suffer through the expected power outages. Recovery was slow for many reasons, not the least of which was 150,000 to 200,000 damaged housing units. Lot of bad things happened as did a lot of good.

Posted by: Javems at February 10, 2014 06:04 PM (c8xU9)

227 "I attach here a note I received from my uber-Lib friend who has been smuggly touting his panels for about a year now. The note is actually from a friend of my friend, who was a part of setting up the original deal. What happened is, the PV vendor used the assigned RECs as collateral, borrowed cash from a bank, and scarpered. Heh, heh. So now friend has $20,000 in solar panels, and nooooo payback."

Around here, a huge number of liberal yuppie environmentalists shelled out five grand each as "deposits" on their new rooftop solar systems to the guys with the neatly trimmed uniforms and clean white trucks.

The guys with the neatly trimmed uniforms and clean white trucks who NEVER SHOWED UP AGAIN. Nothing. Just vanished completely with the cash.

There's an old adage among con men that half the con is picking the right mark. These guys chose their marks with absolutely exceptional accuracy.

Sometimes con men will sell their contact lists to buddies who will call up and purport to be attorneys pursuing a class action to get the lost cash back. They just need a bit of earnest money up front to establish the client's bona fides. You can imagine what happens next. (Such double marks are called "reloads", appropriately enough.)

I would injure myself laughing if someone pulled that with these same indignant liberal prats who never got their solar crap. And I'm absolutely certain that it would work.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 06:04 PM (gqT4g)

228

They think they're creating a "leisure class" of unemployed layabouts.

 

 

No, what they're creating is a "target class" of unprepared parasites.

 

 

Those of us with skills, experience and preparation won't be on the losing side of that equation.

 

 

 

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at February 10, 2014 06:05 PM (vvk2F)

229 219 should be deported to Belize or the Congo and see what it really means to be poor. Congo, Zimbabwe, or Detroit yes, not Belize. Belize limps along on tourism and the expats who choose to live out their golden years in a tropical setting. Leave Belize aloneÂ…. its lovely and even the poor in Belize eat well.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 10, 2014 06:05 PM (hpgw1)

230 "if they choose Keynesian leisure over a low-paying job, thatÂ’s their business"

As is their starving to death.

Posted by: Dang at February 10, 2014 06:07 PM (MNq6o)

231 What the left seems to forget... constantly... Is that if you have less people working, you have less people paying taxes... Thus more burden, on less people... Which is to my mind... not only patently unfair... but unworkable...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 10, 2014 06:07 PM (84gbM)

232 Crazycardtrick.com worked four straight times. Incredible site. But then I said "ObamaCare" twice out loud and ObaCare is still here. Mega fail.

Posted by: MTF at February 10, 2014 06:07 PM (7ynIk)

233 If one doesn't want to create more than they need, fine by me. Just don't demand assistance when the time comes.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 10, 2014 06:07 PM (E8IHS)

234 crazycardtrick.com Posted by: DC --------------- WTF? Posted by: Mike Hammer I didn't write it down to verify but I assume all the cards are removed (ie. they just changed all the suits...numbers stay similar to the original mix)

Posted by: Clubbed Baby Seal at February 10, 2014 06:08 PM (S0eIZ)

235 Off tasty sock!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 10, 2014 06:08 PM (S0eIZ)

236 It's amazing to me that people are paid for opinions like these, but it's gobsmacking that people pay to read them. The comments section is full of people of equal retardation.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 10, 2014 06:09 PM (0jFxY)

237 Belize is pretty nice. And if you want, you can buy a Belizan passport for about $150k, last time I checked.

Could come in handy.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 06:09 PM (AW7Gr)

238 You know... this is something that feminists got right. Or at least our mothers got right when they fussed about working outside of the home. Yes, domestic work is important, but it used to be part and parcel to an economic system that was *centered* in the home... or farm... not only wives, but children, were directly vital to the economic well being of the family because the economy of the family, including the husband's work, was all there together. Change it up to men, mostly, going off to work and bringing home paychecks and women taking care of children and trying desperately to ape the rich by having an immaculate house and throwing dinner parties and then being treated as if they were being "kept" by their husbands... And maybe they were. The stay-at-home culture is different now as moms (or the occasional dad) often homeschool or run home businesses. But being *kept* is soul killing to nearly anyone. Working and getting paid contributes to feelings of self-worth in ways that volunteering or pretending to clean the house does not. You can be a nincompoop who accomplishes nothing and not get sent home from your bored housewives charity organization. Compare that to the lowliest employment and you know that you at least are personally worth having there every day.

Posted by: Synova at February 10, 2014 06:09 PM (7/PU+)

239 "Job lock is when Democrat policies have caused such a severe contraction in the job market that you are afraid to quit the job you hate because the probability of finding any other job, much less a better one, is so low."

Bingo. Bravo. And yet you never hear this case stated so baldly and directly by the Beltway Republicans.

It's because they themselves, inside the Imperial orbit, simply don't get it. It's invisible to their eyes. They don't realize the horrible grind of this incredibly bad job market in the rest of the country because jobs are plentiful where they are.

Same-same with Mitt Romney in 2012. I was tearing out my hair saying, "Where are the ads about Obama's sky-high gasoline prices?"

Mitt didn't pick that up as an issue because he simply did not see it. The wrong set of eyes. To someone with a net worth of several hundred million bucks, no matter what the price sign in front of the gas station says, it's merely a rounding error.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 06:09 PM (gqT4g)

240 >>>I didn't write it down to verify but I assume all the cards are removed (ie. they just changed all the suits...numbers stay similar to the original mix) I didn't think of that, I just assumed the internet was magic. *back down the rabbit hole*

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:09 PM (eQJwb)

241 Ok, you're right Mr. Clubbed Baby Seal. The collective knowledge of the Horde is really impressive. Also, it frequently makes me feel really stupid.

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:11 PM (eQJwb)

242 Im sorry there is nothing else I can think of to help you.
xxxxx

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 09:56 PM (aDwsi)

Heh. Pretty hard for me to feel sorry for someone who got snookered into buying solar panels on the premise that he would be paid money raided from the pockets of utility customers forced to pay the higher rates needed to support the crazy feed-in tariffs for the damned panels.



Solar panels are undoubtedly useful where there is no grid. Or for tiny amounts of power  for which running grid power is needlessly complex, e.g. solar garden lights. But as a prime mover for the grid itself, no way, Jose.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 10, 2014 06:11 PM (pFqpP)

243 Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:11 PM (eQJwb) Hmmm.... theres crowd sourcing.. And Brain storming... Moron Sourcing? Horde Storming?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 10, 2014 06:12 PM (84gbM)

244 Its quite fashionable to claim that every job will be automated...how about we wait until a robot comes to fix your plumbing before imagining these scenarios?

Posted by: sexypig at February 10, 2014 06:13 PM (dZQh7)

245 I didn't think of that, I just assumed the internet was magic.

*back down the rabbit hole* Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:09 PM (eQJwb)


I think you're confusing magic with boobehs again.


Here, let the internet magically mash up boobehs and rabbits for you.


And by you I mean me.

http://youtu.be/uUfW2UJphIM


Yes, I will post that link at any possible opportunity.  I mean, DUH. 

Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:14 PM (Gk3SS)

246 Ok, you're right Mr. Clubbed Baby Seal. The collective knowledge of the Horde is really impressive. Also, it frequently makes me feel really stupid. Yeah, well who's the one drinking fine whiskey provided by the ladies of the house? *Two thumbs pointed at you* I think you win.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 10, 2014 06:14 PM (S0eIZ)

247 Whats up with Ace?

Posted by: Still no sign of sig at February 10, 2014 06:14 PM (q177U)

248 Alberta - I actually knocked out a quick paper regarding the economic hopelessness of a particular solar installation. This one in fact, which the blogger so breathlessly describes: http://blog.thesietch.org/2006/10/26/brockton-brightfield/

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 06:15 PM (aDwsi)

249 "A great many people in New Orleans stayed because storms always turned north at the last minute. Locals, like myself, never really expected it to hit the city. They just never did."

There was an article written by a woman who stayed behind in NOLA with her husband and a couple of friends. They had every expectation that the storm would hit.

So, um, why did they stay?

Because they were junkies. With active habits to feed. And they didn't know where or when or how they would be able to find smack if they left their comfortable customary haunts in New Orleans, where getting a fix is normally as easy as ordering a coffee.

They did not expect it would be as bad as it was. The local heroin pipeline dried up as the city got wet. They ended up looting pharmacies for opiates, but the stuff they got were pills. Bad bad bad things happen to junkies who crush pills and then inject them.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 06:15 PM (gqT4g)

250 New IRS rules prohibit employers from laying off people...or reducing their hours...because of ObamaCare!

fascism

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 10, 2014 06:16 PM (n0DEs)

251 And if 'job lock' was the problem, why not look at McCain's solution from 2008 to give the tax benefits to the individual rather than the employer?? But no, McCain was a senile old fool (well, yeah), but America's hip new black friend had a GREAT idea....

Posted by: --- at February 10, 2014 06:16 PM (MMC8r)

252 I guess the NYT is using the Salon model of trolling the internet. Things must be bad up there.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 10, 2014 06:16 PM (0jFxY)

253 >>Mitt didn't pick that up as an issue because he simply did not see it. The wrong set of eyes. To someone with a net worth of several hundred million bucks, no matter what the price sign in front of the gas station says, it's merely a rounding error. Did you miss the whole "I'll build the Keystone pipeline with my own hands if I have to" part of every stump speech he gave? He talked about gas prices a lot. Don't confuse the msm not reporting with things not happening.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 10, 2014 06:16 PM (g1DWB)

254 Let the grasshoppers starve. And Ross shouldn't doo- that kind of article.

Posted by: seamrog at February 10, 2014 06:16 PM (VZxqT)

255 http://youtu.be/uUfW2UJphIM Yes, I will post that link at any possible opportunity. I mean, DUH. Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 10:14 PM (Gk3SS) I see what you're doing there. http://tinyurl.com/nbosnuy

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:17 PM (GEICT)

256 Synova YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Remember, that thing where men left their families to go work really far away, not just down the road, or in town a little bit away, or on their own store, business or farm? that was a short, very recent, very unworkable development!!! and at the same time the wives were separated with the extended family - teh f*kc??! still hopeful that telecommuting gets better and better and families can be together more (even if I work for Microsoft or something)

Posted by: Black Orchid at February 10, 2014 06:19 PM (pS66t)

257

I don't think  Laura W. read the whole column.

 

Wait  for the ending.  I do not   think it means what she thinks  it means.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 06:19 PM (jbdp1)

258 The Venezuela vid in the sidebar may be a glimpse into our future.

Posted by: --- at February 10, 2014 06:20 PM (MMC8r)

259 I see what you're doing there.

Watching Kate Upton hop up and down?   Yes.   Yes, I am.


http://tinyurl.com/nbosnuy Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 10:17 PM (GEICT)


Oh GINA.   *paws at screen*

I'll just be a minute, I have to go watch Danica shoot All The Things for a bit.  I'll be fine.  Really.  


That incipient brown out is not my fault! 



Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:20 PM (Gk3SS)

260 The Venezuela vid in the sidebar may be a glimpse into our future. Posted by: ---

Or a Christmas season Ghetto Walmart's past.


Posted by: Dang at February 10, 2014 06:21 PM (MNq6o)

261 >>>Yes, I will post that link at any possible opportunity. I mean, DUH. Stupid YouTube, I'm not registering for any damn thing. Here's a nice consolation prize, Olympic style: http://tinyurl.com/o24g4wq

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:22 PM (eQJwb)

262 a rich, post-scarcity society, we shouldnÂ’t really care that much about whether the poor choose to work. To me that says, "we have a surplus of adults".

Posted by: t-bird at February 10, 2014 06:23 PM (FcR7P)

263 So now, employers must prove to the IRS that any layoffs or firings or reductions in hours...is *not* due to ObamaCare.

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 09:49 PM (eCZwh)

This could be interesting.  My maximum allowable hours as a part-time adjunct community college instructor were reduced from 35 hrs to 28 hrs to comply with ObamaCare.  Wonder who I should bring this up to?

Posted by: Mindy at February 10, 2014 06:23 PM (mQwL2)

264 257 I don't think Laura W. read the whole column.

Wait for the ending. I do not think it means what she thinks it means.

Good point. Your post led me to actually read the column. It's not just the ending. The whole column, if you read carefully, is basically "Really, leftists? Really? Work doesn't matter any more? Are you really on board with that? And are you going to stick to that as a position?"

Of course the answer is "no." It's just the tactic of the moment, which is where a leftist's focus usually is.

Posted by: Splunge at February 10, 2014 06:25 PM (qyomX)

265 "On the conservative side, things are somewhat clearer. There are libertarians who like the basic income idea, but only as a substitute for the existing welfare state, not as a new expansion. Both “rugged individualist” right-wingers and more communitarian conservatives tend to see work as essential to dignity, mobility and social equality, and see its decline as something to be fiercely resisted. The question is whether tomorrow’s liberals will be our allies in that fight." Laura, YOU HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE THING. Damn, everyone needs to stop shitting on Ross Douthat. Glad to see 256 noted the same thing. I guess the coblogs didn't read the whole thing either.

Posted by: darii at February 10, 2014 06:25 PM (/8gIB)

266 >>>I see what you're doing there. Yeah. I never get tired of that. Hot like the center of the sun.

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:25 PM (eQJwb)

267

Better yet, read the post.

 

Even  better,  someone  read the friggin  we're commenting about.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 06:26 PM (jbdp1)

268 Here's a nice consolation prize, Olympic style: http://tinyurl.com/o24g4wq Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:22 PM (eQJwb) http://tinyurl.com/oen9but

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:26 PM (GEICT)

269 Fucking aye, CJ.

Posted by: darii at February 10, 2014 06:27 PM (/8gIB)

270 I would injure myself laughing if someone pulled that with these same indignant liberal prats who never got their solar crap. And I'm absolutely certain that it would work. Posted by: torquewrench at February 10, 2014 10:04 PM (gqT4g) I laughed so hard reading your post that I pulled a muscle in my chest...which sucks but damn that is some funny shit.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 10, 2014 06:27 PM (oFCZn)

271 BC - See? You line up a bunch of women, hose 'em down, and they all look about the same. * runs for cover *

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 10, 2014 06:28 PM (aDwsi)

272 So many choices, BC. This needs further investigation. I'll be back in 4-17 minutes.

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:28 PM (eQJwb)

273 What's all this reading the article talk? Where am I, the fucking NRO Tea Room or something?

Posted by: --- at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (MMC8r)

274 Stupid YouTube, I'm not registering for any damn thing.

Here's a nice consolation prize, Olympic style:

http://tinyurl.com/o24g4wq Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:22 PM (eQJwb)

Oh hello nurse.


Let's see if the embed works:


http://bit.ly/1aPnUa0

Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (Gk3SS)

275 So many choices, BC. This needs further investigation. I'll be back in 4-17 minutes. Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:28 PM (eQJwb) You doing it twice or something?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (GEICT)

276 Which is why the ones I know won't apply for citizenship if amnesty goes through. I'm a contractor and, while I don't ploy illegals. Many of the subs do. I think the biggest misconception is that they are making slave wages. They are not. What they make under the table would equal about 50 or 60k if they were paying taxes, etc. Add that to the wives & kids getting welfare, food stamps, med care, etc & you're now up to about 70k. Then there is the fact that they are workaholics and work many side jobs & you up to god knows how much. Just go to a Walmart & see them buying everything that's not nailed down. Nice folk who work like mules and can't blame them for taking advantage of our stupidity. Posted by: EdMorrissey'sweatyballsack at February 10, 2014 09:49 PM (b9+ZZ) 10 years ago I was in a field that relied heavily on foreign workers for staffing, can't say exactly, but hink of an Olympic Winter games sport that is played professionally in the US. Those employees had to be brought in legally, and it is expensive as shit. very expensive. While I was writing checks to immigration attorneys and the INS, all while contractors and restaurants are hiring illegals left and right. I would bet a million dollars that if my employees weren't from our neighbor up north or not dirty Scandis or Czechs that the INS and the taxing agencies wouldn't have given a shit. And yes, we did get checked by all those agencies to make sure we were in compliance,

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly known as MrCaniac at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (HxSXm)

277

Glad to see 256 noted the same thing. I guess the coblogs didn't read the whole thing either.

 

I don't think so. They're constantly  asked to read a ton of stuff and offer quick commentary. It's  understandable  they might whiff on a few.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (jbdp1)

278 Maybe it would be different if I was assured of a minimum income and health care but I had no work today and was bored out of my mind.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (bPxS6)

279 253 Don't confuse the msm not reporting with things not happening.

I think I know all these words, but when you put them together, what you're saying makes no sense at all. How can those two things be different?

Posted by: Low-Information Voter at February 10, 2014 06:29 PM (qyomX)

280

263...My maximum allowable hours as a part-time adjunct community college instructor were reduced from 35 hrs to 28 hrs to comply with ObamaCare. Wonder who I should bring this up to?

 

-------

 

I dunno, Mindy....this apparently has just happened.

So I don't know if it is applied retroactively to reductions in hours that have already happened...or just to ones from here on out. 

 

Megyn Kelly was so gobsmacked by this new IRS rule that she said she was putting the 'IRS document' up on her Facebook page.

Maybe you could find out more about it there?

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 06:30 PM (eCZwh)

281 I'll be back in 4-17 minutes. Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:28 PM (eQJwb)


I thought the doctor told you that your heart would explode if you keep triple dosing like that.

Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:31 PM (Gk3SS)

282 http://bit.ly/1aPnUa0 Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 10:29 PM (Gk3SS) I raiseÂ…. http://i.imgur.com/3v6PZRF.gif

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:32 PM (GEICT)

283 >>>You doing it twice or something? I'm a fookin athlete. And upon further review, the winners are third from the right and far left. Have them sent to my tent forthwith.

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:32 PM (eQJwb)

284 190 Oh, haven't you heard? New IRS rules prohibit employers from laying off people...or reducing their hours...because of ObamaCare! Megyn Kelly was just talking about this. So now, employers must prove to the IRS that any layoffs or firings or reductions in hours...is *not* due to ObamaCare. Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 09:49 PM (eCZwh) So, Directive 10-289 is real? http://www.conservapedia.com/Directive_10-289

Posted by: rickl at February 10, 2014 06:32 PM (sdi6R)

285 I don't think so. They're constantly asked to read a ton of stuff and offer quick commentary. It's understandable they might whiff on a few.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 10:29 PM (jbdp1)


Well, a lot of us won't follow a link to the NYT, just as a matter of principle, so there's that.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 10, 2014 06:32 PM (pFqpP)

286
   So maybe everything WILL go south.  Can't tell thus far.

   All I know is that I will be trying to save my beloved country until it's clear there isn't any use.

    Just call me Eddie Willers The 2nd.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 10, 2014 06:34 PM (SAMxH)

287 I raiseÂ…. http://i.___ur.com/3v6PZRF.gif Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 10:32 PM (GEICT)


Out of idle curiosity, at what point, exactly, will you remember that the hamsters eat part of those links?



Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:35 PM (Gk3SS)

288 I followed the link and read until I could read no longer.

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 06:35 PM (AW7Gr)

289 Universal Basic Income? That was an idea? Good Lord help us if they get that into their heads again.

Posted by: t-bird at February 10, 2014 06:35 PM (FcR7P)

290 Out of idle curiosity, at what point, exactly, will you remember that the hamsters eat part of those links? Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 10:35 PM (Gk3SS) Probably the the same point at which I even notice that those portions are even in the link. I keep forgetting that Im not really at a functioning site.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:38 PM (GEICT)

291 This IRS deal is a real thing. Tinyurl isn't working with me, but it's called the "The Employer Shared Responsibility Provision". Newspeak is here, and they're naming it as such to blame employers for it. Holy shit.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at February 10, 2014 06:38 PM (ojnk6)

292

284...So, Directive 10-289 is real? 

 

-------

 

Yeah...sort of.

 

Employers can still fire, layoff or reduce someone's hours...as long as they "Swear under penalty of perjury" that it wasn't because of ObamaCare.

Posted by: wheatie at February 10, 2014 06:38 PM (eCZwh)

293 Thanks, Wheatie.  Maybe I'll highjack my husband's FB and look it up.

Posted by: Mindy at February 10, 2014 06:38 PM (mQwL2)

294 >>>I thought the doctor told you that your heart would explode if you keep triple dosing like that. See, there you go, being all mean again. She agrees with me. http://tinyurl.com/lze6gwy

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:39 PM (eQJwb)

295 Is the thing about not being able to fire people or cut their hours for Obamacare real?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 10, 2014 06:40 PM (6bMeY)

296 Some people say Ross Douthat didn't say what he said because at the end he said something different, kind like Obama does

"Sure you can build coal fired generating plants. . ."
"Sure you can keep your insurance
"Sure you can keep your doctor
"Sure you can . . . .Don't call my bluff. If you send a bill up here for me to sign that delays the employer mandate, I'll veto it. I am the president, and I am the only person who can delay the employer mandate. I can do what I what."


Posted by: Erma Foreit at February 10, 2014 06:40 PM (ulJ9/)

297 I keep forgetting that Im not really at a functioning site. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 10:38 PM (GEICT)


It's retro.   Retro.   That's what it is.



See, there you go, being all mean again. She agrees with me.

http://tinyurl.com/lze6gwy Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 10:39 PM (eQJwb)


You know, I could say something about how my links work but the boys' links don't but I am above saying such a petty, alternately nice thing.

Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:41 PM (Gk3SS)

298 #289

One of the reasons McGovern got slaughtered in 1972 was a 'universal minimum wage' as part of his platform.

After reading the whole thing, Douthout raises some good points but the text is rather more work than it should be to understand properly. A similar piece could written that made the same points but was less prone to being misinterpreted. Especially by hunchbacks.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 06:42 PM (bPxS6)

299 His link worked just fine for me, AtC.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:42 PM (GEICT)

300 Also, it frequently makes me feel really stupid. Posted by: DC in Towson Boy, oh boy! Are you telln' me!

Posted by: Yogi Berra, Moron philosoper king at February 10, 2014 06:43 PM (+1T7c)

301 Well, a lot of us won't follow a link to the NYT, just as a matter of principle, so there's that.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 10, 2014 10:32 PM (pFqpP)

 

That's cool.  But I don't agree with it. Because then you can't comment on it.  It's not a bad column. Even more, you can't work to undermine what remains the single  most powerful news outlet in the world if you  refuse to see  what they're putting out.  You sideline  yourself.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 06:43 PM (jbdp1)

302 Just what we need more of, laws passed by people who could not stop lying on a bet, penalizing us for lying to them.

Hey, dickhead, lying weasels. You lie to me. I lie to you. Let's just leave it that way, m'kay?

Posted by: navybrat at February 10, 2014 06:44 PM (AW7Gr)

303

76 Boss moss, I'm late to the party, but Black Books is an amusing series. Good Neighbors is a hoot.

 

Posted by: Emily at February 10, 2014 06:44 PM (7Rn+/)

304 ONT up....

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at February 10, 2014 06:45 PM (ojnk6)

305 Night y'all. Stupid alarm clock needs to be punched in its stupid green numbers,

Posted by: DC in Towson at February 10, 2014 06:45 PM (eQJwb)

306 265 . Damn, everyone needs to stop shitting on Ross Douthat.
Posted by: darii at February 10, 2014 10:25 PM (/8gIB)
It's usually a pretty safe bet to do so.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 10, 2014 06:46 PM (juDHN)

307 His link worked just fine for me, AtC. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 10:42 PM (GEICT)


I get a tiny url cannot redirect page.  *kicks computer*


Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 06:46 PM (Gk3SS)

308 if you refuse to see what they're putting out.

Kinda like Obama's story.
There he is right in front of you and if you refuse to see him for what he is, how can you stop him from doing what he's doing.

Posted by: Erma Foreit at February 10, 2014 06:46 PM (ulJ9/)

309 A similar piece could written that made the same points but was less prone to being misinterpreted. Especially by hunchbacks.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 10:42 PM (bPxS6)

 

True, but remember his  audience.  It's useless  for him to come out guns blazing.  You have to give both sides and then tilt the  conclusion to the right.  Small  incremental persuasions.

 

If you ain't persusading, you ain't no use.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 06:47 PM (jbdp1)

310 Um, guys? I'm no big fan of Douhat, but I think y'all are misreading his column. It seems like you're making the mistake of shooting the messenger. At least the way I read it, he's not talking about this "post-scarcity" argument with approval. He's merely pointing out that the logic of liberalism could eventually lead certain liberals to make this argument. He's saying that, *assuming one accepts the basic premises of the leftist worldview,* this is a plausible idea which might appeal to some on the left. He's not saying he thinks this is terrific and that he heartily approves. Go back and read the last two sentences: "Both 'rugged individualist' right-wingers and more communitarian conservatives tend to see work as essential to dignity, mobility and social equality, and see its decline as something to be fiercely resisted. The question is whether tomorrowÂ’s liberals will be our allies in that fight." I don't see how that squares with the interpretation some of y'all are pulling from his column. If I'm wrong, please feel free to point out to me what I'm overlooking.

Posted by: Wes at February 10, 2014 06:47 PM (R1mDg)

311 So seeing as how layoffs will continue apace thanks to Obamacare, regardless of any IRS directives, which companies do you think the IRS will target for investigation? They won't be able to go after all of them, limited resources and all...

Posted by: mugiwara at February 10, 2014 06:48 PM (3a584)

312 I get a tiny url cannot redirect page. *kicks computer* Posted by: alexthechick - We beseech thee of great SMOD at February 10, 2014 10:46 PM (Gk3SS) Now that's just too bad.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 10, 2014 06:49 PM (GEICT)

313 That's cool. But I don't agree with it. Because then you can't comment on it. It's not a bad column. Even more, you can't work to undermine what remains the single most powerful news outlet in the world if you refuse to see what they're putting out. You sideline yourself.

Posted by: CJ at February 10, 2014 10:43 PM (jbdp1)

If you noticed, I avoided commenting directly on the column, and slagging Douthat, simply because I hadn't read it. Such comments as I made were in response to other questions that arose out of the discussion, and stand on their own merit, or lack thereof.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 10, 2014 06:54 PM (pFqpP)

314 Raising my kids myself isn't nearly as boring as the proof reading work I did for years, Synova. And my sense of accomplishment is doing just fine.

Posted by: LadyS at February 10, 2014 06:55 PM (tMTsS)

315 #310  You're right.  I'll read one of his columns when it's linked on a conservative site, but I avoid the NYT, mostly.  WaPo, at least the op-ed, is heating up a bit.
#214 is my POV on the column.

Posted by: mrp at February 10, 2014 06:57 PM (JBggj)

316 The IRS directive is merely the latest step in making everybody a criminal who awaits prosecution.

Also, guess who get to be the new kulaks?

Posted by: Epobirs at February 10, 2014 07:02 PM (bPxS6)

317 I'm retired, own my house and land free and clear, been stacking silver for years, have plenty of food stored, etc.; so I can't go Galt, but all others in the daily fray out there producing goods and services need to go Galt. Let the trucks and the trains stop delivering goods, let the oil and gas wells stop producing, let the sheeple line up for medical-dental care when the doctors and dentists refuse to work under ocare. Let the power stations lay idle. Starve and freeze them out and the horse they rode in on.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 10, 2014 07:07 PM (hpgw1)

318 >>>I would bet a million dollars that if my employees weren't from our neighbor up north or not dirty Scandis or Czechs that the INS and the taxing agencies wouldn't have given a shit.


I remember the big news of the Bush Admin making a huge immigration bust. Thousands of Walmart contractors (cleaners) mopped up for being illegal.

They were Slovacs.

Bush got to look tough on immigration and dodge the racism bullet.

Posted by: typo dynamofo horrible judgy SOCON of doom and whatnot at February 10, 2014 07:09 PM (IVgIK)

319 This guy doesn't know what a post scarcity economy is.  We are a rich nation, at least relative to the rest of the world, but a we are not a post-scarcity nation by any means.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 10, 2014 07:10 PM (qJPSp)

320

I  was  going  to  say  "Katrina,"  but  I  think  now  I'll  just  say  F5  tornados,  Category  5  hurricanes,  and  the  SMOD--all  unarguably  caused  by  global  warming--are...  uh...  oh,  nevermind... you  Morons  already  sayd  it.

@peeteysdee

 

Posted by: Peter S. Dee at February 10, 2014 07:25 PM (M1pME)

321 Oh, what a wicked thing you did, forcing me to read Douthat’s exercise in stupidity that somehow, in some places, passes for what was once known as journalism. To begin, Keynes was such an idiot, that I cannot fathom why he is considered a leader of economics, for he obviously had no connection with reality. For instance, the suggestion that three hours of labor each day is sufficient…REALLY??? It takes longer than three hours each day to prepare meals, clean the kitchen afterwards, make the bed, clean the house, do laundry (not to mention extra time for country folks to create the crops & livestock that account for daily food, clothing, linens…). Did no one clean his toilet? Who grew the tobacco and rolled his cigars? Who pressed his shirts and polished his boots? Who built the house he lived in or dug the trenches to supply clean water and dispose of sewage? Who harvested the silica, created the glass, and hung the windows that he would smash? Clearly the man thought too much of himself and very little of the people around him that made his life one of ease and rumination. Keynes enjoyed his leisure on the backs of hard-working people around him. Look around you Douthat. What low-skilled, low-wage jobs do you see that have been replaced by robotics? I would argue that mechanization has replaced moderate- to high-wage jobs (note – wage, not salary) that required more repetitive motion than decision-making, jobs where machines could provide more horse-power for longer periods of time without rest, or those that were just too dangerous for mortal beings. Douthat speaks of society as something that is rich and post-scarcity. What an arrogant presumption! In a society where more people are living in debt, surviving paycheck to paycheck, or living off of other’s resources, increasing amounts of money are spent on basic necessities. Resources that may seem abundant do not last long in the face of disaster, whether it be natural or man-made, inflicted from within or without. It’s true – Obamacare is perverse – not potentially, not probably, not purportedly, but is implicitly and inherently perverse. Man was created for work, and work for man. Even if you do not believe in a Creator, the fact that mankind is not a single-celled slime or sluggish creature, but made of muscle, sinew and bones with an upright posture, is enough to convince that it takes effort (AKA work) to combat gravity. Even scientists in the healthcare community are bemoaning the fact that a sedentary lifestyle limits life expectancy. Work is not a necessary evil; it is necessary to provide for ourselves and our families, to care for our homes and our communities, to create culture and society. The pursuit of happiness is not a promise of happiness. Pursuit implies a chase, not waiting for your prey to come to you. Leisure is a thing of dreams, but without work leisure is simply sloth and laziness. Leisure without work is a slave to desires, and just like an addict, will require more from others to support the habit while providing less for themselves or society.

Posted by: Aunt Nancy Webb at February 10, 2014 07:30 PM (ZzOoB)

322

Oh,  and  what  are  the  odds  Ross  Douthat  has  never  been  called  "douche  hat",  "ass  hat",  "Token RINO",  "David  Brooks",  or  "Jen Rubin"  while  in  the  threos  of  the non-fapping style  of  orgasmic  pleasure?

Taking  bets. 

It's  a  trick  question,  btw.

@peeteysdee

 

 

Posted by: Peter S. Dee at February 10, 2014 07:32 PM (M1pME)

323 I didn't get the memo on the post-scarcity thing.  Is that settled science? 

Posted by: RightKlik at February 10, 2014 08:30 PM (IEpte)

324

"if they choose Keynesian leisure over a low-paying job, thatÂ’s their business."

This HAS to be tongue-in-cheek. It's not simply "their business" if I'm paying and my kids pick up the Keynesian portion of the bill.

Posted by: RightKlik at February 10, 2014 08:38 PM (IEpte)

325 Douthat's name is not on NRO's masthead.   IOW he's not active there. Previously he was editor at the Atlantic, hardly a repository of conservatism.  Once upon a time he was an NR on Dead-Trees film critic, but that's long ago and far away.

That said, it's amazing to read the comments to Douthat's article.  Many treat him as making a nefarious conservative arguments!


Posted by: Anna Keppa at February 10, 2014 08:49 PM (BYZzw)

326 If we are living in a "post-scarcity" world, then why have prices for food, energy and gasoline gone up so much?  

If nothing's scarce, then it ought to be "too cheap to meter", right?


Posted by: Anna Keppa at February 10, 2014 08:55 PM (BYZzw)

327 I may be late to the party, but I think this is a profound issue and you nailed it but good. It's a way for the elite to make themselves feeeel better about enslaving the Dependent Class: make 'em into semi-human stereotypes like the antebellum *cough* field workers or the *cough* rail bed builders. ...or the Irish. It is not only contemptuous, but dangerous. Very dangerous.

Posted by: Running Hobo at February 10, 2014 08:59 PM (l1oyw)

328 Douthat thinks we live in a 'post-scarcity society.' Maybe the stupidest words I have ever seen in print.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at February 10, 2014 10:43 PM (kTTUz)

329 The Ross Douthat piece struck me in in a couple of ways.

First, it had the feel of the Star Trek: Next Generation episode when the crew defrosted a bunch of folks from the 21st century, only to inform them that the persuit of money had no value any more.  I noticed that this theme was never again used  in any Star Trek episode across all of the franchises.
It must have raised more questions than could be answered, like .. why would anybody be a "serf" in such an enlightened age ?  Who would want a dangerous task ?  Why wouldn't they all want to be Captain of a Star Fleet vessel ?


On the conservative side, things are somewhat clearer. There are libertarians who like the basic income idea, but only as a substitute for the existing welfare state, not as a new expansion. Both “rugged individualist” right-wingers and more communitarian conservatives tend to see work as essential to dignity, mobility and social equality, and see its decline as something to be fiercely resisted.

... this brings me to the second point, on the conservative side, things are somewhat clearer.  Who would be able to survive a Zombie Apocalypse ?
In the such an event, the Progressive bastions, the cities, who look like "World War Z."  None of them would survive.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 11, 2014 12:19 AM (e8kgV)

330 328 Douthat thinks we live in a 'post-scarcity society.' Maybe the stupidest words I have ever seen in print.

... Isn't the whole underlying political point of AGW that oil is scare ?  .. notice that in the AGW mindset of politicians, it isn't that carbon is completely bad, it's that fossil fuels aren't renewable.

'post-scarcity society' fits in the Obama-esque world that is also post-partisan and post-racial ... these fit so well in the world with unicorns.
Which world that is ? .. I have no idea.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 11, 2014 12:26 AM (e8kgV)

331
The lack of a work ethic is closely associated with a lack of self-worth, which, the last time I looked, is something that is fundamental to the pursuit of happiness.

Posted by: Levin at February 11, 2014 04:31 AM (cQ4Va)

332 "Faced with choosing between work, or being perpetual state-financed layabouts, what do you think Mr. Douthat would encourage his own children to do?" If Mr. Douthat's children chose not to work and be lay-abouts, my question for Mr. Douthat is, "Since you are working and making a fair amount of money, are you willing to split your total earnings equally between yourself and each of your children and their families and continue this arrangement in perpetuity??

Posted by: Hangtown Bob at February 11, 2014 04:48 AM (JEiD+)

333 This is the Cloward-Piven strategy, and they're not even trying to hide it.

What sort of Marxist revolutionaries footsoldiers do they think they'll get from people who have been taught idleness and dependence?


Posted by: Lee Reynolds at February 11, 2014 07:33 AM (0bC+U)

334 This doesn't matter. The CBO said 2-2.5m hours (not jobs) will be affected by this which is under 5,000 actual jobs. This article doesn't even describe that. We do want people to work but this isn't going to affect anything significant.

Posted by: Matthew Cupples at February 11, 2014 07:39 AM (w1Mph)

335 This is not at all how I read the Douthat article. I read the quoted paragraph as his description of an argument made by some liberals. The conservative position (which he refers to as "our") is:

conservatives tend to see work as essential to dignity, mobility and social equality, and see its decline as something to be fiercely resisted.

Posted by: Elise at February 11, 2014 09:39 AM (7sza2)

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