Ace of Spades HQ

February 14, 2014

First Gay NFL Player Comes Out of the Closet, During His Career
— Ace

This guy isn't quite in the NFL yet, but he's a prospect. Assuming he does get drafted, he'd be, as far as I know, the first acknowledged active gay NFL player.

Good, actually.

I know some people will say "Why tell anyone? Why put it in our faces?"

I think the answer to that is severalfold:

First, unless you acknowledge you're gay, you have to lie an awful lot to every day sort of questions -- "Would you be interested in meeting my friend's sister?" People get tired of lying, even if those lies are considered socially-acceptable (to the extent that some would rather be told a lie than be told that someone is gay).

Second, it's not as if there is no chatter about a gay person's sexual preferences unless he publicly announces it. It's not as if it's only his public declaration that makes the matter one of social interest.

"Is he gay?" is a very common question to ask about someone who seems gay. I know liberals; they ask this a bunch. They don't mean it an a bad way or anything, but yeah, people pick up on subtle signals and then speculate, among friends, if someone is gay or not. Conservatives of course ask it too.

Another argument that I think is misplaced is the claim that by saying he's gay, he's offering up lascivious details of his sex life and putting it "in people's faces." Well, saying he's gay implies gay sex, but as far as I know he's not talking about gay sex. If I say I'm straight, that implies straight sex or, alternately, alas, an appetite for straight pornography. But no one would take a statement of "I'm straight" as getting into the precise details of one's sexual practices and appetites.

I'm not "celebrating" the fact that this guy is gay, no more than I would celebrate my own unfortunately-disclosed enjoyment of Busty Lesbian Porn. I don't think any sexual appetite is really worthy of celebrating. These are animal impulses. I don't think they should be criticized, either. But I also don't consider being gay some kind of Ethical Choice to be praised. Gay say they're born that way, and I agree with that. So I don't praise someone for being gay, anymore than I praise someone for being tall.

But when I say "Good," I do mean this: I think lies are bad. I think someone feeling as if he has to lie, or should lie, is bad. There are some socially-acceptable "necessary lies" in the world -- the media gives itself a pass, for example, on what it considers a necessary lie, claiming to be "objective" and "nonpartisan" -- and while I would not rule out the necessity or acceptability of any lie, I certainly think that any lie begins on very infirm ground, as far as claiming the "necessity" of it.

Some lies may be so important as to be justified, but any lie must bear a heavy burden of proof to establish it as truly "necessary" and thus acceptable or advisable.

I don't think the pretense of gay people either claiming to be straight or resorting to clumsy evasions about their sexual interest is sufficiently vital to fall into the "necessary lie" category.

We should all have -- and I'm sure we all do have -- a heavy bias towards truth as the best policy, with lies limited to only those most absolutely necessary to spare someone's feelings or avoid serious conflict and the like. A gay guy, who probably has been identified by 90% of his teammates as probably gay, saying "Yes I'm gay," does not seem to me to be a breach of a social norm. Sure, he could lie; what would be the point, though? His teammates would still chatter; there would be the occasional article in the gay press suggesting he might be gay.

And at some point there might be an outing, some guy he picked up one time announcing to the press that this guy is gay and he can prove it, despite his public denials. And then he gets attacked for lying, when he never really wanted to lie in the first place. He would have been lying to spare other people the discomfort of his mentioning his homosexuality, but now (in my hypothetical) he gets nailed as a Huge Gay Hypocrite Liar.

From his point of view, I can certainly see the value of just saying "Yeah, if you're wondering if I'm gay, I am."

The strongest argument against his statement regards the unfortunate environment we find ourselves in: That as gay rights increase, the left, and the government, has decided that other people's rights must diminish.

If a photographer does not wish to take pictures at a gay wedding for religious, ethical, and moral reasons, the state is now routinely forcing that photographer to either abandon his livelihood or else violate his religious tenets.

I think that is outrageous. But I do not think that fight gets won by criticizing this guy's right to speak the truth about himself.

One can consistently argue in favor of maximum freedom for both parties-- the religious photographer, and the gay athlete who says he's gay -- with no contradiction. In fact, the two things tend to reinforce each other. The gay guy has the right to be gay, and express himself as being gay; the photographer has the right to find homosexuality to be against his principles, and has the right to decline to participate in gay weddings.

And in fact I think this path will more likely lead to the photographer being free to exercise his own conscience -- that is, by adopting a live and let live attitude, the conservative movement can contrast itself with the controlling, You Must Abide By Our Cultural Preferences In Every Last Detail attitude of the left.

As I've said before, I think the conservative side is losing on these issues not because the issues (such as state compulsion to force a religious baker to make a gay wedding cake) aren't, on their own, persuasive, and therefore, on their own, political winners.

I think the trouble is that these issues often come wrapped with a political loser -- a general sort of negative feeling about gays -- which the public, largely, does not share.

People do not think about issues carefully; reason is merely the justifier of decisions made already in the gut. And when two issues come along, one which requires reason (that religious people have the right to opt out of such things) and one which requires no reason, as it it originates in the gut (the public's increasing tolerance for homosexuality, and increasing intolerance for what it considers "anti-gay" sentiment), then the latter, being the easier snap decision to make, will win out, and pull the public towards the leftist, statist position on the other, much more winnable, issue as well.

This is why I frequently urge a cleaving between the one issue (a political winner) and the other issue (a political loser). Even if you don't agree with my analysis, for political reasons, it makes sense to separate a winning issue from a more powerful losing one. If the winning issue is weighed down by a more powerful losing one, it will be dragged down to the bottom of the lake with it.

Even if you disagree sharply with me on the social corrosiveness of homosexuality (and openly admitted homosexuality), you probably have noticed that this position, in terms of pure political strength, has weakened substantially in the past ten years, moving from something that was a 50/50 proposition to something more like a 30/70 losing issue.

Anyway, that's my take. I want this gay football player to feel free to say he's gay, just as I want the religious photographer to feel free -- and not suffer government penalty -- to speak his belief that homosexuality is a sin.

I would like, to the extent possible, to have an arrangement in which the most people possible are as free as possible to do what they think is right without coming to social -- or legal -- grief over it.

Posted by: Ace at 11:41 AM | Comments (703)
Post contains 1389 words, total size 8 kb.

He's not an NFL player.

Yet.

Posted by: The Draft at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (TOk1P)

2 Please tell me more about the power glutes on these American Football players...

Posted by: Andi Sullivain at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (Q6pxP)

3 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 11:44 AM (PYAXX)

4 In many ways Michael San's story is Obama's story, especially the gay stuff.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 11:44 AM (38LLM)

5 "Why tell anyone? Why put it in our faces?" I think the answer to that is severalfold: 8. Someone might suck it.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 11:44 AM (RhERp)

6 >>He's not an NFL player. Yet. ... ah yes, I should correct that. Hm, not sure what I should say. I'll figure it out.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (/FnUH)

7 So unless someone lands another plane on the Hudson, or Rush calls someone else a name, I guess we have Moochelle's seat buddy for the 2015 SOTU.

Posted by: Baldy at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (2bql3)

8 I really don't give a shit what people do in their own homes. But I am damn tired of gay this and gay that shoved in my face every hour, every day, every week, and all year.

This is something everyone knew about but did not TALK about when I was a kid. It needs to go back in the damn closet.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (T2V/1)

9 I've got a lot more respect for Mr. Sam, than Jason Collins, formerly of the NBA, who, as a Stanford Alum, appears to have 'come out' to make money on the rubber chicken circuit...

Posted by: phreshone at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (Q6pxP)

10 Oh, severalfold!? ...I thought you said 'sevenfold'.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (RhERp)

11 The tasteless self-revelation comes to the NFL.
Yet another reason not to pay any attention whatsoever.

Gun thread?

Posted by: Criminal Reactionary Element, with a primordial nuclide at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (1/4XQ)

If I say I'm straight, that implies straight sex or, alternately, alas, an appetite for straight pornography.

This guy.

I luffs this guy.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (fsLdt)

13 Wasn't it fairly common knowledge back in the 70s that Roman Gabriel was teh ghey? I know he wasn't publicly "out" or anything but I thought it was a thing. Or am I mis-remembering?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (7ObY1)

14 They're only trying to get past me to the QB because I'm gay!

Posted by: Uh huh at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (tv7DV)

15 The forecast for this thread is: Pain

In before people who claim they don't care if he's gay demonstrate that they can't stop talking about him being gay.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (SY2Kh)

16 I'm transgendered. Now the truth can be told.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (SMP3h)

That being said, I think this if fine. For him.

What many of us are going to have a problem with is the media's reaction, up to and all through the draft. Will his draft position be penalized (shut up!), will it hurt his chances of making an NFL roster?

He's a marginal player. Small lineman, not a very effective linebacker.

I wish him well, but he's going to struggle in the NFL, and that has nothing to do with his gayness.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (TOk1P)

18 The latest Sports Illustrated 'swimsuit addition' cover is kinda gay, but in a really good way.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (CnA98)

19 Well we can disagree on his announcement but I think one thing we can all agree on, he's going to be the happiest guy on the field during breast cancer awareness month.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (g1DWB)

20 >>> I really don't give a shit what people do in their own homes. But I am damn tired of gay this and gay that shoved in my face every hour, every day, every week, and all year. yeah I get that but... we are in a period of change. While this remains "controversial," it will, by necessity, continue to create headlines.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (/FnUH)

21 Barry is soooo happy right now.

Posted by: Reggie Love at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (Q6pxP)

My gripe is not with this guy being gay. Mine is with the effing circus espn is going to turn this into, and the rest of the media herd following their lead in the crusade.

Although I will say that Sam took some spectacularly bad advice by turning his soul over to espn. They own him now.

And my question - What's going to happen the first time Sam bleeds on somebody? You can bet there are players throughout the nfl thinking about that right now. By what factor is your risk of hep or aids going to rise being on the same field with a full-on gay guy?

Posted by: rickinstl at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (0AEWQ)

23 >>>He's a marginal player. Small lineman, not a very effective linebacker. ----------- Light on his feet, though.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (SMP3h)

>> no more than I would celebrate my own unfortunately-disclosed enjoyment of Busty Lesbian Porn

But to your point nobody should make you feel as if you have to *lie* about it.

I would never do that to you.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (WvXvd)

25 If we are going to talk about gays, why can't it be lesbian pron? Why?

Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (nsOJa)

26 Can someone write that much about a guy coming out without actually coming out themselves? This is the question that may lead to me actually reading this.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (RhERp)

27 IRS? A local story. Now this is big news.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (Q6pxP)

28 so I'm gay for liking to watch a chick eating another out while she is getting it in the ass?

Posted by: The Dude at February 14, 2014 11:48 AM (bStrg)

29 anyone need anything cut/pasted?

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (x3YFz)

30 >>If we are going to talk about gays, why can't it be lesbian pron? Why? See the comment above regarding the new SI swimsuit issue. Fap.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (g1DWB)

31 I was gay when it wasn't cool to be gay.

Posted by: Zombie Liberace at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (SMP3h)

32 How busty are we talking about here?

Posted by: Russ Meyer at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (kI8sg)

Goody for him. Shall we give him a medal?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (hLRSq)

34 >>>The forecast for this thread is: Pain

In before people who claim they don't care if he's gay demonstrate that they can't stop talking about him being gay.

Too late! See #8.

No really, I'm already breaking my retirement rules here. I'm done. Guten abend, all.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (ewYO6)

35 Like everyone didn't know Kordell Stewart was gay.

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (x3YFz)

36 Maybe he came out because there was video of him dancing topless at a gay club back in October: : http://tinyurl.com/mqocu3n

Or he could have done for the potential endorsements his agent says have been coming his way.

Or maybe he's just a hero.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (38LLM)

37 If we are going to talk about gays, why can't it be lesbian pron? Why? Because the pole is the new poon?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (GjYxB)

38 Welcome to the New Ghey NFL "And he's flouncing over the fifty-yard line, and prancing all the way down to the 45 yard line. Now he's sashaying over to the sidelines...and yes, there is a penalty on the play. The referee is signalling for an Unfabulous Conduct penalty. Seems that the linebacker's pink shoes are clashing with his green mascara. That'll be ten yards and a swat on the bum from the opposing QB. These Washington Foreskins are going to have to keep a lid on those penalties, Steve. We'll be right back after these showtunes..."

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (7ObY1)

39 Any morons have a recommendation for a decent, not too expensive progressive reloading machine? I want to do more pistol shooting and I've heard the Lee Progressive does just fine. Morons? Anyone?

Posted by: Criminal Reactionary Element, with a primordial nuclide at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (1/4XQ)

40 Ace is yet another tragic victim of the fag agenda.

Posted by: Realist, Man. I'm a Realist! at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (SMP3h)

41 30 comments and no 'tight end' jokes? I DO NOT KNOW you people!

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (DLu2s)

Posted by: Russ Meyer at February 14, 2014 03:49 PM (kI8sg)

busty enough to make Super Pochaco blush

Posted by: The Dude at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (bStrg)

43 But Ace, this is precisely what conservatives have been complaining about all along. The Double Standard. Leftists get to scream at the top of their lungs their beliefs and everyone else shut up and sit down ya racist homophobic womyn-haters.

Posted by: John Teh Libertarian at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (qmTBz)

Eventually there will be no more *firsts* in the gay world. I am looking forward to that time.

Unfortunately there will still be the left handed club footed triple breasted bi-polar lesbians we have to deal with.....Sigh.

Posted by: Registered Voter at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (0DC/m)

45 38 Welcome to the New Ghey NFL

The referee is signalling for an Unfabulous Conduct penalty. Seems that the linebacker's pink shoes are clashing with his green mascara. That'll be ten yards and a swat on the bum from the opposing QB.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 03:50 PM (7ObY1)

now that's funny.

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (x3YFz)

46 Too late! See #8.

Yeah, I figured that I'd be proven wrong in the time it took to type the comment.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (SY2Kh)

47 Nice couple of posts and all, but when are we gonna talk about Syria?

Posted by: Tee09 at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (uJFYb)

48 Can he a) tackle and b) get to the QB? If yes, then proceed.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (659DL)

49 Wasn't he outed by someone else? That has always seemed incredibly heartless.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 11:51 AM (jOumW)

23 -

That made me laugh. Damn you.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (TOk1P)

51 Does this mean we have to have gay comme tators for Olympics hocky as well as figure skating?

Posted by: bergerbilder at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (8MjqI)

52 41 30 comments and no 'tight end' jokes? I DO NOT KNOW you people! Too obvious. This is a smart military blog, after all...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (7ObY1)

>> ah yes, I should correct that. Hm, not sure what I should say. I'll figure it out.

He announced he will enter the draft.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (WvXvd)

54 This is such a crock of shit and a PR stunt by his agent. EVERYONE on his college team knew he was a fudge packer, wow, now it's news. Give me a break

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (0FSuD)

55 He's a projected NFL draft pick. I've heard as high as third round, but never seen him that high in anyone's mock drafts, rankings,including one's that hadn't yet updated with the gay info. I do see him from 4-7th these days. If he's truly a sixth or seventh round talent, I think he's in trouble draft wise. A lot of the guys in that range don't make the final cut, does a GM want a media circus and inevitable charges of homophobia if Sam just doesn't work out? If he's a fifth round or above, in my calculation, you could probably make the case for picking him. Or he could go somewhere that actually wants a progressive circus, I know lots of these owners are big Libs.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (ZshNr)

56 Here's my politoco-social manifesto:

"I don't give a shit what you do as long as you're not trampling someone else's rights, costing me money or expecting applause."

Gay and you want to marry? Mazeltov. If a Christian baker doesn't want to make your cake, don't sue him. Find another goddamn baker.

Wanna get stoned? Have fun. But your unemployment/welfare benefits need to be drug-tested.

Let your freak flag fly. Don't expect me to buy it or salute it.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (celt+)

57 >>Maybe he came out because there was video of him dancing topless at a gay club back in October: : He came out to his team last summer. There was no way he was going to keep this secret after that.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (g1DWB)

58 Pete Carroll will draft him.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 11:53 AM (celt+)

59 I guess in a society that celebrates Obama's "unprecedented election", infanticide, and Miley Cyrus adding the NFL to the gay mafia is a small thing. But we are watching another institution of what was American dying. In my lifetime I've seen the end of America and while we cannot stop it, we sure as hell should not be celebrating it.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 11:53 AM (M3hAT)

60 It's like Lois Lerner getting to extol her wonderful virtues and then hiding behind the 5th so everyone else has to shut up.

Posted by: John Teh Libertarian at February 14, 2014 11:53 AM (qmTBz)

61 An interesting argument, ace. Some good points there. You do think about things a lot. Just throwing that out there.

Posted by: Still trying to find a sig to call my own at February 14, 2014 11:53 AM (q177U)

62 You're absolutely wrong on this. You're attitude of "good" is what is driving the wholesale suppression of religious rights and bullying of others who don't follow your "example". So we are seeing bakers force to bake cakes, people who are against gay marriage be called "haters" and "bigots" while people like you wine in the middle "can't we just get along?". People like you are thus part of the problem and as much as an enemy as the mushy middle of everything else. What someone does in their own privacy is their own business, but social acceptance of what is by definition sexual deviancy does not further societal aims. I will call this guy and anyone who shoves it in my face a pervert, just like he is.

Posted by: dm at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (++uBO)

63 >>>But to your point nobody should make you feel as if you have to *lie* about it. I would never do that to you. ... hah. I declare it proudly. I still can't believe I did that. yes, I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (/FnUH)

64 Anyway, that's my take. I want this gay football player to feel free to say he's gay, just as I want the religious photographer to feel free -- and not suffer government penalty -- to speak his belief that homosexuality is a sin. But that's not the world we live in, so why does the gay football player get to go first? However, I take issue with your entire premise. It is one thing to be openly gay with those immediately around you. Letting the guys in the locker-room and in the back office and your friends and family know- okay, fine, no problem. In fact, I applaud that because there is some cost to you- especially in a locker room with a bunch of other guys. Where it becomes "shoving it in your face" is when they feel the need to make a press release out of it. The likelihood of any fan ever saying, "Hey, dude, you wanna date my sister!?" (and expecting a reply) is somewhere between slim and none. Moreover, he's not doing it "during" his career. He's doing it prior to a draft in which he was projected to go in about the middle- 3rd to 5th round is what I've heard. There are reasons for this which have absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality. Yet, now, every coach is under pressure to draft him early- regardless of his talent and regardless of his "fit" (if I may) with the rest of the team. Even if young Mr. Sam did not intend to bring such pressure, he has done so. Any coach who *fails* to take him if he's still around in the 5th round opens themselves (and the whole NFL if he just goes undrafted) to claims from the Harridan Left of "homophobia." All coaches will *also* be under pressure to take him early to "prove" that they're "down with the gay lifestyle." Again, his intent is immaterial here- the effects are there anyway. I have no desire that he should have to "live a lie," but what he has actually done (intended or not) is to wave the "gay card" around and say, "Hey, I was one of the best defense men in the SEC. Whether or not I fit with your defense doesn't matter. You'd better draft me, or I'll call you out." (Again- intended or not. I actually believe this move was probably prompted by his agent- for these very reasons). And then, once drafted, how do you get rid of him if he doesn't work out? Him having waved the gay card around, and all.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (PYAXX)

49 -

No. He in fact, told his college teammates months ago, at the beginning of the season. For the most part, other players were supportive, and from all accounts there were no incidents.

Apparently people suspected before he told them.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (TOk1P)

66 For most of US History, Homosexuality was regarded as equivalent to non compos mentis. Since 1973, it has slowly become the rest of society. This too will end when the burning times come.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (bb5+k)

67 Personally it doesn't matter to me if a player is or is not gay. Power to you, buddy! MY problem is with the inevitable media insanity that will ensue when this guy gets drafted, and which will follow him throughout his career. Any time he doesn't get a big enough raise in his contract: "HOMOPHOBIA!" Anytime a team trades him away: "HOMOPHOBIA!" Anytime he doesn't win some award for which he was in the running: "HOMOPHOBIA!" If he doesn't make it into the Hall of Fame: "HOMOPHOBIA!" That's where my problem is. Not with the player, but with the media harpies who will make this guy's entire existence solely about his sexual orientation. They're as bad as, and worse than, the fucking feministas.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (CA2NO)

68 >>>You do think about things a lot. Just throwing that out there. thank you, I do try.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (/FnUH)

69 It's not whether he can tackle and get to the QB. It's whether he ever gets off the QB.

Posted by: John Teh Libertarian at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (qmTBz)

70 Nice couple of posts and all, but when are we gonna talk about Syria?

We did. You missed it.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (SY2Kh)

71 I love trivia, so this from @blackrepublican Ξ BLACK REPUBLICAN Ξ ‏@blackrepublican #MichaelSam 's (gay football player) aunt, Geraldine Sam, was the first Black female mayor (Republican) in Galveston County in 2009. (The aunt did not play football)

Posted by: tmitsss at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (7Rx8v)

72 This is something everyone knew about but did not TALK about when I was a kid. It needs to go back in the damn closet.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2014 03:45 PM (T2V/1)

----------------------------------------------

I'd like to see a lid put on everyone's private sex life. I really don't want to hear about it.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (nFviW)

73
You're attitude of "good" is what is driving the wholesale suppression of religious rights and bullying of others who don't follow your "example". So we are seeing bakers force to bake cakes, people who are against gay marriage be called "haters" and "bigots" while people like you wine in the middle "can't we just get along?". People like you are thus part of the problem and as much as an enemy as the mushy middle of everything else.

Posted by: dm at February 14, 2014 03:54 PM (++uBO)

Um. Who are you talking to?

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (x3YFz)

74 If I don'ts gets the pick I wants its because of ghey prejudice. I know that in my heart, I should be the number one draft pick. After that. I am sad for my country and I know my friends will all be upsets.

Posted by: Sam I Am, ghey "tailback" at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (0FSuD)

75 Let your freak flag fly. Don't expect me to buy it or salute it *** You are aware that the American government strongly disagrees with you right? American society will now, if it has to, throw you in prison if you don't want to pay for a stoner to light up on the dole or serve a gay "wedding". The libertarian argument in the social space makes a lot of sense...but only after Leviathan is rolled back which isn't happening anytime soon.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (M3hAT)

76 Draft : to enter the slipstream of another.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (RhERp)

77 I like fudge.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (SMP3h)

78 This guy is projected as a 3rd or 4th round pick. Better fit as an outside LB in a 3-4. He will play in the NFL.

Posted by: Muad'dib at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (sjdRT)

79 The sports guys were getting suspicious when they saw that his dorm room had posters for Rent and The Birdcage

Posted by: Anderson Cooper at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (Q6pxP)

80 Meanwhile, better players who are not waving flags are ignored.

Posted by: --- at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (QPh7W)

81 My understanding of the situation is that Sam was known to be gay by various people and it was a question as to whether he'd publicly come out or someone would out him, as opposed to him attention-whoring like Jason Collins.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (/Crba)

82 "yes, I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day. " Have you submitted your resume to one of our many government offices? You seem like just our type of employee!

Posted by: Washington D. C. at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (jOumW)

83 #67, I expect that circus to start with his draft selection. If he goes any lower than the second round, the cries of HOMOPHOBIA will be overwhelming. Call me cynical, but I suspect that Sam "came out" to improve his draft position, and set himself up to file a lawsuit if he doesn't get the spot he wants.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (7ObY1)

84 As the ole' saying goes, "Shut up and sing"
Or in this case "Shut up and play ball"

Posted by: RonUSA at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (EaqMa)

85 If Ogabe had a son, he would look like this potential draft-pick... and he would be into same sex age play, too.

Posted by: Criminal Reactionary Element, with a primordial nuclide at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (1/4XQ)

86
Just because I have a beard doesn't mean I have ever had a ghey experience. I am as straight as Debbie Wasermanly Schultz' hair.

Posted by: Charlie Crist at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (nQjHM)

Ace is yet another tragic victim of the fag agenda.

He's grown man. I think he have opinions about things all on his own.

I guess my question is why coming out to your teammates isn't enough. Why go public?

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (fsLdt)

88 What someone does in their own privacy is their own business, but social acceptance of what is by definition sexual deviancy does not further societal aims. I will call this guy and anyone who shoves it in my face a pervert, just like he is.

Sorry about the election, Mr. Akin

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (SY2Kh)

89 On the other hand, there's good reason to lie in this case. Perhaps more people should follow their natural instinct to lie about such things. This is my way of nicely saying I'm sick of discussing homosexuality. I'm sick of it being a subject of discussion when it deserves it not. We as a society spend an awful lot of time on this nonsense. Has it occurred to anyone this is a whole big Nothing foisted upon us as an important issue. It's not; it's just a political issue couched as a social issue that shouldn't even be a political issue.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (VLyds)

90 Homosexuality has been part of the human condition since pretty much the dawn of recorded time. The NFL is a pimple on a boil of an excrescence. I don't care that he's gay, or that he's not gay, I wish him success, but I'm not a fan of any pro sport that doesn't involve a steering wheel.

Posted by: JEM at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (o+SC1)

91 This is very much the story of Obama

Posted by: David Axlerod at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (Q6pxP)

92 This is going to hurt his draft status because most teams don't want the drama.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (38LLM)

93 This too will end when the burning times come. *** As someone else pointed out, if we get the sort of "transformational" change the Left wants, homosexuality will become "capitalist decadence" and punished harshly...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 11:57 AM (M3hAT)

94 Ok, dammit, I admit. I'm a male lesbian. Whew, I feel so liberated!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (o9Rp5)

95 @39 I'd like to shoot service pistol with a .45 I have. The rules require 230gr hard ball rounds at all ranges, so I don't expect to need a lot of bells and whistles.

Posted by: Criminal Reactionary Element, with a primordial nuclide at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (1/4XQ)

96 I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day. 'Making the Bombs' by The Circle Jerks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDp2XZpSy9k

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (RhERp)

97 Not all lies are evil, a good marriage is supported by many lies. If you ask me if you are too fat, or too thin, or too old or whatever, I'm going to lie like a dog.

Posted by: toby wan kenobi at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (QupBk)

98 >>>That's where my problem is. Not with the player, but with the media harpies who will make this guy's entire existence solely about his sexual orientation. They're as bad as, and worse than, the fucking feministas. true. But of course that's not actually this guy's fault. Nor would any purpose be served by pressuring him to just shut up about it. I will stand with you exasperation-by-exasperation regarding the media's relentless cheerleading for homosexuality qua homosexuality. But in terms of gay people themselves -- eh, let them find their bliss. It's not my problem, and I have enough problems without going on a hunt for even more problems.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (/FnUH)

99
I drive a blue Prius with a rainbow flag decal, Obama bumper sticker, and a manly NFL logo.

Posted by: Michael Sam at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (nQjHM)

100

yes, I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day.

You magnificent bastard.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (fsLdt)

101 This was exactly the worst outcome of the "public accommodations" provisions of civil rights laws. It is one thing, and right and proper, that government and government-sponsored or sanctioned activities which use public property (utilities and the like) should be prohibited from discrimination, all citizens should be treated with equality before the law and when their taxes or public ownership is being used.

But to tell private individuals who they must serve is an affront to freedom. Perhaps society feels it was necessary to blast open "white only" restaurants and hotels, but the fact of the matter is that eventually market forces would have done the same thing IF it was an economically desirable thing to do.

Now, in effect, government is saying they can extend that power to any favored group. You no longer own your own labor.

Posted by: Adjoran at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (QIQ6j)

102 I guess my question is why coming out to your teammates isn't enough. Why go public?

Because if he didn't there would be rumors about it until he did?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (SY2Kh)

103 When somebody comes out the only proper response is "meh". And then point and laugh at the people who make a bigger stink over it than it is-- either the scolds or the social cons.

Posted by: MMW at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (kt/h1)

104 I get your point, and generally agree with it. My worry is in what you correctly term the public's "increasing intolerance for what it considers 'anti-gay' sentiment."

Look at what happened when the fake hillbilly Duck guy quoted 1 Corinthians. FIRST CORINTHIANS, for crying out loud. I don't mean all the network crap. I mean the public reaction.

We went from the most liberal state in the union passing Prop 8 to having half the country consider the Bible "hate speech" in the space of FIVE years.

Odds on how long it will be before churches are forced to perform gay marriages or lose their tax exempt status?

I can hear it now: "Well, they shouldn't be tax-exempt anyway."

And bam. The government suddenly controls religion.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (vgIRn)

105 I've told this story before. I've worked with worthless straight people, worthless gay people, great straight people and great gay people.

What you do on your own time is your business.

As far as the religious side of it, that's not my job to judge. No opinion.

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (x3YFz)

106 yes, I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 03:54 PM (/FnUH) Wait the HQ has a pron channel. Fuck I knew I should have bought the premium package. Can I still re up? Or is the HQ pron for the horde? I am so confused.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (0FSuD)

107 >>>I guess my question is why coming out to your teammates isn't enough. Why go public? once you tell 54 guys, in what sense isn't it public yet? Obviously someone in the media will hear of it, and then ask.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (/FnUH)

108 The libertarian argument in the social space makes a lot of sense...but only after Leviathan is rolled back which isn't happening anytime soon. Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 03:55 PM (M3hAT) It has long been my belief that the Libertarian argument only appears to make sense because it is deliberately limited by short-sightedness, which for them, is a feature, not a bug. In the longer scale of things, the Libertarian argument falls apart. Societies do not prosper when they are morally neutral.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (bb5+k)

109
yes, I was cruising for porn in the middle of the work day.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 03:54 PM

Tumblr has pretty much become Instagram for porn

Whatever floats your boat, somebody put it on Tumblr

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (aTXUx)

110 C'mon.. there's a little bit of swishiness in all of us, right? Wouldn't you agree? Yes?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (Z7PrM)

111 "One can consistently argue in favor of maximum freedom for both parties-- the religious photographer, and the gay athlete who says he's gay -- with no contradiction. In fact, the two things tend to reinforce each other."

-------------------------------

Everything we know about human nature makes me conclude that only this scenario is a stable equilibrium. The moment maximum freedom is curtailed in some way, the system starts to break down and fall out of equilibrium until eventually there's war. It happens literally every fucking time and some people, i.e. busybody liberal anti-social assholes who just have to get their way on everything, just do not learn from it.

Posted by: Sudden Clarity Clarence at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (3kFw2)

112 >
I guess my question is why coming out to your teammates isn't enough. Why go public?

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 03:57 PM (fsLdt)<

He said that all the NFL scouts knew because of interviews they did with his teammates. With so many people in the know, there was no way it wasn't going to leak out. He said he didn't want it to leak - as if he wasn't proud of who he was. His exact words were "I want to own my truth". I kind of like the kid based on what he said in that interview.

Posted by: Muad'dib at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (sjdRT)

113
Light on his feet, though.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 14, 2014 03:48 PM (SMP3h)

And in his loafers

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:00 PM (FE/sZ)

114 I guess my question is why coming out to your teammates isn't enough. Why go public?[]

Supposedly a news reporter was about to out him

Posted by: Anderson Cooper at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (Q6pxP)

115

for political reasons, it makes sense to separate a winning issue from a more powerful losing one. If the winning issue is weighed down by a more powerful losing one, it will be dragged down to the bottom of the lake with it.

I sense a recent trend around here. Conservatives should chose winning issues. And maybe argue potentially losing issues in a way that will make them winning ones. ThatÂ’s just crazy enough to work. (Though it could be crazier just to be safe.)

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (9KqcB)

116 I'd like to see a lid put on everyone's private sex life. I really don't want to hear about it.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 03:55 PM (nFviW)

No!! You must learn to celebrate all of the diverse wierdnesses that are out there or you are a h8er and inhibited!

(sarc off)

Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (hLRSq)

117 If Jadeveon Clowney came out of the closet, then we'd be able to gauge the impact, with this guy there's no way to know what scouts/ GM's thought about him or why before/after announcement. There is no consensus to be upset.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (ZshNr)

118

Posted by: Anderson Cooper at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (Q6pxP)

119 I would protest the homophobia and gay hate in this thread, but I know better than to waste my effort from you RethugliKKKans.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (dqSmk)

120 I am proudly HETEROSEXUAL! I love PIV sex and getting BJ's. Celebrate my choice everyone! Laud me and praise my courage for coming out.....

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (jucos)

121 Shut up and sing? OK. http://tinyurl.com/pmf9m8b

Posted by: Madeline Kahn at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (0FSuD)

122 all citizens should be treated with equality before the law and when their taxes or public ownership is being used. However, we've arrived at a point where holding conservative viewpoints on Islam can get one thrown in jail, conservative activism can get the FBI/IRS/ETC sic'ed on you, and asking the president uncomfortable questions can have the whole government-media complex attempt to destroy you. We have never as the American people been as unfree as today.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (M3hAT)

123

>>>anymore than I praise someone for being tall.

He's tall.

Posted by: Kenny Mayne at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (9TK8E)

124

Don't care.

Anyways, around me ALL men are gay.

I'm just that goddamned good looking.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (jqHOY)

125

Not all lies are evil, a good marriage is supported by many lies. If you ask me if you are too fat, or too thin, or too old or whatever, I'm going to lie like a dog.

So I'm fat? I hate u.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (fsLdt)

126 Hey, I was feeling pretty darn special wearing pantyhose under my pants in Super Bowl III. Don't I get a special mention or something??

Posted by: Joe 'Broadway the Hard Way' Namath at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (DLu2s)

127 I have no problem with the guy being gay or even "coming out". I don't understand why it is national news or why I should care.

Posted by: Chris Vaughn at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (h+2SD)

128 So has he been asked by Michelle yet for fashion advice?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (+lpuZ)

129 Ghey NFL more interesting than shooting sports?
You mean this is not the Bullseye-L Forum?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6tl899w

Posted by: Criminal Reactionary Element, with a primordial nuclide at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (1/4XQ)

130

>>>Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 14, 2014 03:54 PM (CA2NO)

Coming out certainly hasn't helped Jason Collins' career...

Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (9qDRl)

131 Is it really a loud & proud coming out when you TEXT your father? Shouldn't you, like, get your family together and tell them?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (GjYxB)

132 Well, I saw that Michael Sam's father is none too pleased about this. I guess Sam's father is a homophobic h8ter?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (7ObY1)

133 I lie and tell people that I am tall.

Posted by: Billy Barty at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (kVfSG)

134 >>Because if he didn't there would be rumors about it until he did? Probably even more than that. Teams these days do incredible amounts of background research on players they are thinking of drafting. His whole team knew and there are reports that he dated at least one dude at school. He was either going to come out or be outed. If I was him I wouldn't have wanted to live a lie. This isn't like some 9-5 job where you work with people and then go home. Sports make you practically live with other guys for months on end. How realistic is to think that even if he wasn't outed during the pre-draft digging this guy was going to remain celibate for the next X number of years?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (g1DWB)

135 As to the football player, he's one of those kids who is great in college but lacks the size/speed ratio needed for the pros. While he is one of the best at college ball, he was never projected to be an early draft choice. 3rd round earliest, 4th round probable, this revelation may push him to 5th round or later or not at all.

For football teams, it's about what is best for your team, not doing social work.

I suspect the young man was told about his poor prospects and that influenced his decision to come out. Now he can plan to react to a poor selection position as "discrimination by NFL homophobes" or some such nonsense.

Posted by: Adjoran at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (QIQ6j)

136 I don't know how you choose man toes over vagina.

Posted by: Rex Ryan at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (RhERp)

137 You no longer own your own labor. ___ I'm gonna spread the wealth around.

Posted by: Barky O'Precedent at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (M3hAT)

138 What I'm wondering is why ESPN and Roger Goodell are so worried about how Sam is treated in NFL locker rooms

The NFL is 75 percent African-American. Aren't black people free of any hate or bigotry, and known to be immensely tolerant?

Hey Roger, Tebow is out of football now so you don't have to worry that Sam will be tormented by white Christians

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (aTXUx)

139 According to liberal statistics, half the people who comment here are probably gay.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (38LLM)

140 I guess Sam's father is a homophobic h8ter?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 04:03 PM (7ObY1)

___________________

And a RAYYYYYYCIST!!!!

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (jucos)

141 once you tell 54 guys, in what sense isn't it public yet? Obviously someone in the media will hear of it, and then ask. There's a difference between answering a question and volunteering the information. And I get (from other comments) that this kid was in a tough situation. Everyone who needed to know already knew- but it was going to "leak out" anyhow, so what do you do? So I'm not upset at him for saying it, but I am upset that a) the Left is going to find some way to use this as a bludgeon against i) conservatives, ii) the NFL, or iii) both, and b) that somehow *I'm* the bad guy if I tell them to knock it off.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (PYAXX)

142 Longshot exit question: if not drafted, is it grounds for suing NFL owners?

Posted by: 13times at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (fGPLK)

143

One thing: this guy was projected as a third-fifth rounder before he came out. I've heard at least one Sports Guy trying to out-PC everyone else by suggesting this projection is a result of bigotry.

Don't do that. Don't no one suggest we need to draft him higher because gay.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (9KqcB)

144 >>From his point of view, I can certainly see the value of just saying "Yeah, if you're wondering if I'm gay, I am." I have no problem with this. The problem is when he gets undue attention for coming out. Who really cares? Can he play well? That's what matters.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:05 PM (r+7wo)

145 Michael Sam is openly gay. Yay, celebrate! Historic! Let's declare his birthday a national holiday!

Tim Tebow is openly Christian. We can't have guys like that openly expressing beliefs that are offensive to so many Americans!

Posted by: ESPN at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (aTXUx)

146 "once you tell 54 guys, in what sense isn't it public yet? Obviously someone in the media will hear of it, and then ask. " Is that true though? Let's take Anderson Cooper as an example. Surely everyone he worked with and associated knew that he was gay, but was he ever openly asked about it before he decided to come out? Yes, people speculated on it, but I don't recall him ever being "called out" publicly. If he did want discretion, surely his publicist could tell reporters that questions regarding his sexuality were off limits or that sort of thing. Not that he should do any of that, but I don't think him being open with his team mates necessarily means he has to be open with the whole world.

Posted by: Washington D. C. at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (jOumW)

147 For football teams, it's about what is best for your team, not doing social work.

Posted by: Adjoran at February 14, 2014 04:04 PM (QIQ6j)

He just self identified. Not as gay, but as a media circus liability for anyone who drafts him.

He didn't burn the bridge, he blew it.

(I just said that, didn't I? lol Was unintentional but I'm leaving it there)

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (x3YFz)

148 Does this mean our post can be resurrected from pixy's neverland?

Posted by: Gay Hipster Slapfight Guys at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (Q6pxP)

149 Anyway, back to what Ace said: It's really hard to argue that conservatives can dislike gay marriage while still not hating gays when that's obviously not the case for a large segment. And that's why gay marriage will go national in the next two years.

Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (9qDRl)

150 Ahhhh go away horrible, horrible, dirty, horrible sock

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (jOumW)

151 I heard somewhere that in Shakspere's time, actors were considered one step about prostitutes and pickpockets. I am thinking we do back to that and add professional athletes to that strata. True, but if the acting troupe gained Royal sponsorship (Shakespeare's company was the Lord Chamberlain's Men and then upon the crowning of King James, became The King's Men) they were magically elevated to Star Status. Kinda like what's happening today. Our Royals in DC anoint you as acceptable. Come to think of it, King James was teh ghey. Just like...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 12:06 PM (7ObY1)

152 Say some guy on the team likes his goats a lot more than most. Is he a hero if he stands up and says "yep, Coprophile. Every night its me and nanny!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (zfY+H)

153 >>>Is that true though? Let's take Anderson Cooper as an example. Surely everyone he worked with and associated knew that he was gay, but was he ever openly asked about it before he decided to come out? it was relentlessly speculated about, yeah. Hell, a lot of commenters here were suggesting he was gay.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (/FnUH)

154 I agree. I also agree lies are bad. Of course, even on the Right, there are certain truths, at least things that evidence sure seems to indicate are truths, that people are forced to either not acknowledge or lie about. Hence the Dark Enlightenment. Steve Sailer seems to write articles based almost entirely on data that he finds interesting, yet he's mostly Derbified on the Right as a non-person because some of his data seems icky and touches on issues of race and ethnicity that make some feel uncomfortable. I understand, but I also believe that if something is true ... then it's true. And it's good to discover and know true facts about the universe. Even if those true facts are something we wish wasn't true. Razib Khan also writes about similar issues. Yet he is much less vilified. Probably because he's a dark-skinned Bangladeshi and Sailer is a pale white guy. I hate the Who/Whom aspect of truth-telling. If something is true then it is true. Regardless of who said it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (ZPrif)

155 ESPN and all of the sports shows will fall all over him. Any plays he makes, no matter how average, will be broadcasted as the greatest ever. It will be nothing but propaganda which makes me watch football less and less

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (FE/sZ)

156 According to liberal statistics, half the people who comment here are probably gay. ___ I'm not gay...but the guys I make out with? Total queens.

Posted by: Barky O'Precedent at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (M3hAT)

157 But just imagine, now this is all people'll think about when he's tackling dudes

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (vd6Gd)

158 A point about Sam making this a public issue, there was no question whatsoever it would come out soon. It was just a question of when and how. Sam was voted Co-Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC and had told his teammates openly that he was gay. With the NFL draft combines coming up, there are literally hundreds of scouts asking him and his teammates every conceivable question, including his sexuality. All Sam did was get out of in front of the issue, otherwise it would have been some splashy headline in a month or two.

Posted by: Kaisersoze at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (ak/ho)

159 Yeah, Sam's mizzou teammates knew for a long time but he just told his parents right before he told The World (for some inexplicable reason...cough...someone prodded him for political reasons).

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (VLyds)

160 Someone get Mr. Sam a front row seat for next years show.

Posted by: Grammy Awards at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (Q6pxP)

161 I mean look: People frequently suggest Shep Smith is gay, right here in these comments. No one takes offense at that. People sort of giggle about it. So if Shep Smith one days says "Yes I'm gay," how is he causing a social breach? How is he doing something wrong what people right in these comments have long said about him?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (/FnUH)

162

I have no problem with the guy being gay or even "coming out". I don't understand why it is national news or why I should care.

This, basically.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (fsLdt)

163 Shit, this place is turning into HotAir.

Posted by: John Brown at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (bSenX)

164

The NFL is 75 percent African-American. Aren't black people free of any hate or bigotry, and known to be immensely tolerant?

Must be. Because I never hear about such bigotry. So, it doesnÂ’t exist.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (9KqcB)

165 " It's really hard to argue that conservatives can dislike gay marriage while still not hating gays when that's obviously not the case for a large segment."
I'll never get over being annoyed and weary at people who equate "do not like the behavior of" with "hate that person."
Ethics are not determined by majority vote or emotional appeal.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (zfY+H)

166 >>Tim Tebow is openly Christian. We can't have guys like that openly expressing beliefs that are offensive to so many Americans! Nobody, but nobody, got more free PR for being a very mediocre player than Tebow. The only backup QB ever to have his own press conference when he went to the Jets and the place was a mob scene. And now he works for ESPN so not too much hate.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (g1DWB)

167 Michael Sam is openly gay. Yay, celebrate! Historic! Let's declare his birthday a national holiday!

Tim Tebow is openly Christian. We can't have guys like that openly expressing beliefs that are offensive to so many Americans!

Posted by: ESPN at February 14, 2014 04:06 PM (aTXUx)

Exactly

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (FE/sZ)

168 103 When somebody comes out the only proper response is "meh".

And then point and laugh at the people who make a bigger stink over it than it is-- either the scolds or the social cons. Posted by: MMW

--------------

Amen. I'm tired of both the social cons and the progs telling me that I have to give a shit about someone's sexual orientation.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (celt+)

169 The NFL is 75 percent African-American. Aren't black people free of any hate or bigotry, and known to be immensely tolerant? My guess, this is not going to end well for Mr Sam. He has broken the code. There are no ghey brothers in the hood. Just saying he'll get injured and he'll cry about it, but he won't play more than three years at the most. All is injuries will be hate injuries, cause no other rookie every gets hurt, unless they are the ghey rookie.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (0FSuD)

170

His announcing being Gay and the MSM over-reacharound that occurred after violates my principle of destroying what bores me.

Other than that, who cares, really?

Posted by: Bigby's Helping Hands at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (3ZtZW)

171 @92 Dr Spank "This is going to hurt his draft status because most teams don't want the drama." Bingo. No team wants that plublicity. I have a friend who played for the Eagles in the mid-70's for a year (6 games). He told me, he was suprised about the amount of homosexuality in the NFL. He estimated it likley higher than the general population. I asked him, why he thought that was so (I didn't doubt him). He said, "the amount of pain at the NFL level is undescribable. It takes you an hour or more to get out of bed after a professional game. And you do the day after is heal. Most people, inlcuding the wives and girlfriends, have no idea or could relate. Some guys start bonding with other teammates for support and for some it takes them to the physical level."

Posted by: Lee Harvey Oswald at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (y6xal)

172 We as a society spend an awful lot of time on this nonsense. Has it occurred to anyone this is a whole big Nothing foisted upon us as an important issue. It's not; it's just a political issue couched as a social issue that shouldn't even be a political issue. Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 03:57 PM (VLyds) And which is of interest to specifically about ~ 2% of the population which have an over-representation in the broadcast and entertainment media. It also ignores the fact that that 2% of the population tends to be the largest reservoir of sexual transmitted diseases within the population. I think there are very good reasons why society has, for thousands of years, regarded this behavior as undesirable, and it's because of previous experiences with bad consequences. But only the burned finger teaches nowadays.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (bb5+k)

173 it was relentlessly speculated about, yeah. Hell, a lot of commenters here were suggesting he was gay. There was no speculation. And I don't even have decent gaydar.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (RhERp)

174 When Ellen Degeneres came out, it was a big effing deal or whatever, but it meant that after that, her show was about being gay, instead of about being funny, and since gay is in no way funny at all, that meant the show ceased to be funny. Problem was, it was a comedy. As long as the show stay about football, it will probably be okay. But if they make it about being gay instead of being about football, it is going to suck.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (4+AaH)

175 I've heard at least one Sports Guy trying to out-PC everyone else by suggesting this projection is a result of bigotry. Dale Hansen? F*cker, I wanted to punch him in the mouth when I heard his comments.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (PYAXX)

176 So what if his arrow is all wonky when it comes to Chicks and Dicks.

Still not going to be a lock on starting for any team. Lets see DUI or drug bust. Get his bell rung or in training camp blow his knee out. Or he is arrested with someone underage.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (+lpuZ)

177 Hey, it "Black History"month, Sam just wanted to get in the wiki about it.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (0FSuD)

178 I hope he joins the Miami Dolphins! What this young man needs at this crucial point in his life and career is a mentor, and I've got a boatload of practice at it!

I'll have him squared away and sh*tting silver cufflinks in no time. Hell, he'll probably drop a few four-slice toasters once I'm done with him!

Posted by: Richie Incognito at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (DLu2s)

179 162 I mean look: People frequently suggest Shep Smith is gay, right here in these comments.

No one takes offense at that. People sort of giggle about it.

So if Shep Smith one days says "Yes I'm gay," how is he causing a social breach? How is he doing something wrong what people right in these comments have long said about him?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:08 PM (/FnUH)

Well, there's Gay and there's "gay."

The first has to do with just being a flimsy little girly man, the second has to do with sexual orientation.

I see Shep Smith as the former.

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (x3YFz)

180 What if he's gay like Manti Te'o has a hetero girlfriend? Won't that be embarrassing for all.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (9KqcB)

181 Its not the gay athlete that is the problem, I'm sure he just wants to play ball. Its the predacious lick-spittles in the media just frothing at the mouth to catch someone saying something off-color to the kid. Then they'll pounce and make a BFD about a stupid joke or gesture. Fuck the NFL too, I'm sure they won't waste this opportunity to prove to the world how wonderfully tolerant they are, while waving the pink flag of the hypocrites at Susan G. Koman.

Posted by: Imus in The Mornin and the evenin at February 14, 2014 12:10 PM (NpXoL)

182 And totally OT: but Instapundit revealed what supplements he takes here http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/183989/ Insty seems to be very productive and energetic for a middle-aged guy so I find it interesting to read what he takes.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:10 PM (ZPrif)

183 Also, as to the gay guy, so what? That stopped being courageous a long time ago. It just is. Okay, you won on that one. But the people who want to make him into Jackie Robinson - err, no. Not even close.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 12:10 PM (4+AaH)

184 You know what pisses of a lot of gay people?
It's when they tell you that they're gay, and every external indicator is that you find that utterance as fascinating as someone announcing that they have brown hair.
Some of them will even repeat themselves if you fail to respond with the desired degree of shocked face.

It's like "Dude, I get it. You're gay. It's no big deal. Your sexual orientation is normal. Welcome to normal....it's boring"

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2014 12:10 PM (DHj6D)

185 "Nobody, but nobody, got more free PR for being a very mediocre player than Tebow. The only backup QB ever to have his own press conference when he went to the Jets and the place was a mob scene.

And now he works for ESPN so not too much hate. Posted by: JackStraw"

------------

No shit. For a poor persecuted Christian he got a lot of money and mileage out of less-than-mediocrity.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:11 PM (celt+)

186 look I dont' get how people can tolerate a bunch of jokes about gay sex (like the various barney frank jokes about tea-bagging people, or mumbling because of a dick in his mouth), and then when a gay guy says "Yes I'm gay," say "Now you're putting details of gay sex right in my face!!!" Obviously the Barney Frank "mumble mumble" joke is a much more explicit declaration about a specific sex act. So why isn't that "offensive" or "putting it in your face"?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:11 PM (/FnUH)

187 The lie argument is the most persuasive. I use to have to run interference for gay friends-- For example: "Aye he's looking for a Japanese Jewish gal--so if you have a girl like that in mind--hook him up!" The problem I have with this story is the inordinate and disproportionate media coverage of it. He's not even in the NFL yet.

Posted by: tasker at February 14, 2014 12:11 PM (RJMhd)

188

>>>He just self identified. Not as gay, but as a media circus liability for anyone who drafts him.

Let's trade up for him!

Posted by: The Oakland Raiders at February 14, 2014 12:11 PM (9TK8E)

189 I proud to be the "first" ghey graduate of the University of Mississippi. Ha ha ha ha

Posted by: Shep at February 14, 2014 12:11 PM (0FSuD)

190 I think some journalist tried to out him, apparently his preferences were pretty well known in his college town.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (WdbF7)

191 Longshot exit question: if not drafted, is it grounds for suing NFL owners? The NFL has a shield wall of antitrust around it. Unless one could uncover evidence of active collusion--a longshot--it would be a difficult case to prove. The more interesting case would come if he is drafted...and then cut by an individual team.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (659DL)

192

>>"This is going to hurt his draft status because most teams don't want the drama."
.

.Sorry but Gay and Drama go together in todays world. They cant be separated now. It has been decreed by the MSM to be that way from now on.

Posted by: Registered Voter at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (0DC/m)

193 And Ace, this guy did it wrong.

If you come out as gay prior to the draft, you're just a media whore. If you come out after you've been drafted and signed a contract, you're a hero.

Timing. He gets an "F"

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (x3YFz)

194 Well, the next step of course is magazine covers! We'll see how people feel after that shit is indeed shoved into people's faces just so one man can avoid lying to a few people. Yeah, the Shoving Into Our Faces hasnt even begun yet..

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (VLyds)

195 But, despite the protestations about live and let live, the gay agenda is all about forcing that Christian baker to bake the dick cake for the homosexual wedding. Sorry but that is the bottom line on things. You can't sit there and say no problem because it doesn't end with having no problem with gays.

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (GXvSO)

196 >>>He's not even in the NFL yet. apparently he was voted one of two defensive players of the year by someone, so, you know. He would be expected to not only be drafted, but drafted rather early.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (/FnUH)

197 155 Sailer can be interesting, and certain "respectable" conservatives are aware of his writing. That being said, the amount of emphasis he puts on genetics as the end all of human behavior is stupid, and reduces different racial groups entirely to hive mind behavior where there's no truth, just ethnic competition.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:13 PM (vd6Gd)

198 Eeew and old Imus sock...Really?

Posted by: dananjcon at February 14, 2014 12:13 PM (NpXoL)

199 187 look I dont' get how people can tolerate a bunch of jokes about gay sex (like the various barney frank jokes about tea-bagging people, or mumbling because of a dick in his mouth), and then when a gay guy says "Yes I'm gay," say "Now you're putting details of gay sex right in my face!!!" Obviously the Barney Frank "mumble mumble" joke is a much more explicit declaration about a specific sex act. So why isn't that "offensive" or "putting it in your face"? Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:11 PM (/FnUH) ************* Apples to oranges-- The media isn't running around leaving that as the headline during the Olympics for gawd's sakes as the number one USA Sports Story.

Posted by: tasker at February 14, 2014 12:13 PM (RJMhd)

200 But in terms of gay people themselves -- eh, let them find their bliss. It's not my problem, and I have enough problems without going on a hunt for even more problems. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 03:58 PM (/FnUH) I have studied this subject for a couple of decades, and from my reading, the term "Gay" is about the worst misnomer ever. Happiness seems to be very elusive for most "Gay" people, and they generally end up dying young of suicide. (number one cause of death.) I'm pretty sure you aren't interested in wanting to know more than what you garner from your social circles, but I think it would behoove you to read up on the knowledge base humanity has compiled regarding the condition known as homosexuality. It is often a mask for more serious psychological issues.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (bb5+k)

201 Of course yesterday all the sports reporters were gushing over how Sam was "a perfect fit for Teams A,B,C,D,X,Y,Z...". Like an out of position, undersized mid-rounder is a "perfect fit" for anyone.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (ZshNr)

202 Jerry Smith, longtime tight end (no jokes, please) of the Redskins in the late 60s to mid 70s was a homo and subsequently died of AIDS. This was fairly widely known.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (c3zQp)

203

"Dale Hansen?"

'Zacktly. I kept thinking, "Who is he lecturing to?" His colleagues are tripping over themselves celebrate this JackÃ©e Robinson moment and he boldly stands up and declares, "ME TOO!!"

And then he implied Sam was a special talent, top rounder, a victim of bigotry. What a dick.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (9KqcB)

204 Obviously the Barney Frank "mumble mumble" joke is a much more explicit declaration about a specific sex act. So why isn't that "offensive" or "putting it in your face"?

Posted by: ace

Because it is a joke.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (38LLM)

205 Obviously the Barney Frank "mumble mumble" joke is a much more explicit declaration about a specific sex act. *** Barney Frank traded defending Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac for a boy toy...and is there by the individual most singularly responsible for both the current depression and the increasingly authoritarian government we have. Its not your point, but Frank deserves all the jokes and scorn that we can generate...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (M3hAT)

206 "then when a gay guy says "Yes I'm gay," say "Now you're putting details of gay sex right in my face!!!" "
Get back to us when we have a huge press conference with national media and make Barney Frank dick jokes about mumbling.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (zfY+H)

207 People joke about Barney Frank because he is a disgusting human being and a pervert.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (VLyds)

208 >>apparently he was voted one of two defensive players of the year by someone, so, you know. He would be expected to not only be drafted, but drafted rather early. By the SEC. But he was only a mid-round draft choice before he came out because of his size. He was a fairly good sized DE in college but not big enough for the NFL. He's going to get moved to OLB in the pros and that will be a project for some team and projects in the NFL are a luxury longshot.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:14 PM (g1DWB)

209 I have no problem with the guy being gay or even "coming out". I don't understand why it is national news or why I should care.

I can't remember which pinko site was all angry this morning that "social cons" weren't coming out to denounce Mr. Sam. Slate? Salon? They all read the same to me.

The whole thing just feels like a Soviet exercise where they'd observe who did not cheer exuberantly enough and have them shot.

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (ZKzrr)

210 Collins came out, no job. Kluwe comes out strongly in support of gay's, cut and no job. I am slightly curious to see how this one comes out. You can easily get rid of a couple of old has beens without much blowback. But this guy is young.

Posted by: oc joe at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (5fkya)

211 197 >>>He's not even in the NFL yet. apparently he was voted one of two defensive players of the year by someone, so, you know. He would be expected to not only be drafted, but drafted rather early. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:12 PM (/FnUH) ********** Eh--still found the coverage disproportionate--particularly with the Olympics going on.

Posted by: tasker at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (RJMhd)

212

I was really surprised when Ellen came out.

I thought she was completely asexual.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (fsLdt)

213 " So if Shep Smith one days says "Yes I'm gay," how is he causing a social breach? How is he doing something wrong what people right in these comments have long said about him? " I don't think he'd be doing anything wrong. Heck we may even get headlines like "Evil KKK Faux News has a *gasp* gay anchor!" If he went on to say that the evil KKK faux news people were kind and good to him the exploding liberal heads would be delicious to watch. However, I don't think that he *has* to come out. Everyone who knows him in real life knows the truth about his sexuality. There's no reason for him to tell the world about it unless he wants to.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (jOumW)

214 Some player on the 49ers is probably pretty pissed he got beaten to the punch.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (WdbF7)

215 Look nobody ever heard of this guy prior to his announcement. Then he was top billing on ESPN for a whole week (over the Olympics - sure, WINTER Olympics, but still) going into the draft. No such thing as bad publicity unless you are a Republican. Think about it - for a week leading up to the Heisman Trophy award last time, CNN was headlining the eventual winner's sexual assault and whether he was going to be indicted for it or not.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (4+AaH)

216 >>>By the SEC. But he was only a mid-round draft choice before he came out because of his size. He was a fairly good sized DE in college but not big enough for the NFL. He's going to get moved to OLB in the pros and that will be a project for some team and projects in the NFL are a luxury longshot. ah okay. Sorry tasker, I appear to be wrong, and you appear to be right. He's not in the NFL yet, and whether or not he will be is in doubt.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (/FnUH)

217 >The NFL has a shield wall of antitrust around it. Unless one could uncover evidence of active collusion--a longshot--it would be a difficult case to prove. Nope. That's baseball. It's an exemption dreamed up by the supreme court in 1922. Even though the NFL only had to pay $3 to the USFL for anti-trust violations, they *were* found guilty of anti-trust violations.

Posted by: Ace's liver at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (8T0N0)

218 And when the top THREE stories on the CNN sidebar the other day were about Michael Sam coming out? And the fifth story, below them, was about America targeting an American citizen as a terrorist?

How does this analysis hold up when confronted with a nation that has its news priorities as out-of-whack as THAT?

Yes, I said a nation, not a news media. These are presumably the stories CNN thinks we want to read, and the chatter on every mainstream social media site sadly bears out that point of view.

Posted by: Demosthenes at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (c5AtG)

219 Don't care as long as he's not running around snapping towels, slapping ass and dropping soap in the locker room.

Posted by: Peyton Manning at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (wAQA5)

220 If Michael Sam prefaces every postgame interview with, "As a gay man and a gay football player...", I will be officially annoyed. As annoyed as I am with the "First of all, I want to give glory to God..." players who think the Supreme Being of Time and All Creation gives a fuck about them throwing an oblong air-filled bag of pigskin.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (celt+)

221 The media will scour the country looking for some guy to say "Them fags shouldnt play in the NFL!" and then it will be broadcast nightly as to offer up proof that the right doesnt support this poor brave soul. Its nothing more than a tool for the left.

Why should we care? Why is this news? Like Digital Underground said, Doowutchyalike!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fbHOAbOcNI

Posted by: SicknTired at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (1rEHE)

222 I don't give a shit if he is Ghey or not. I believe we, as a people, are more than where we cram our junk or punch our tongues.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (jucos)

223 apparently he was voted one of two defensive players of the year by someone, so, you know. He would be expected to not only be drafted, but drafted rather early. Not true. Prior to the revelation, rounds 3-5 were mentioned. That's pretty solid "middle" (if he was the first pick of the 5th round, he'd be the 129th pick of the draft). And even then people had doubts that he'd make it onto any team's "final 54." He's one of many great collegiate athletes whose prospects in the NFL are considerably less rosy.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (PYAXX)

224 213 I was really surprised when Ellen came out. I thought she was completely asexual. --- When I first saw Ellen, I thought it was David Spade after being neutered over the Hollywood Minute jokes about guys like Eddie Murphy. Same hair, no laughs.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (/Crba)

225

It is often a mask for more serious psychological issues.

Or the psychological issues are caused by having to wear a mask.

This issue became easy for me once I concluded that orientation is genetic.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (9KqcB)

226

Did Sam go public to push himself up the draft board?

Before Sam went public I'd be surprised if NFL teams didn't know that he was gay). Sam came out to his college team last year, so it wasn't a state secret. With the background checks that NFL teams do on potential draft picks, they had to have known. Sam probably learned of this and realized he might not get drafted.

(When the Patriots drafted Tony Gonzalez, they knew that was a gang banger but not a murderer. It's why Gonzalez got passed over in the early rounds until Belichick saw too good a gamble not to take).

The NFL now has a PR problem if Sam isn't drafted in one of the early rounds. But no individual team will want the agita.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (EPEqj)

227 @183 Glen is a strange bird. Libertarian gun loving state employee teaching law with a hot wife. Well acceptable, maybe not hot. He does have a lot of energy, does the state of TN ever get his services in the classroom? Just saying he's on my must read. Eclectic? Yep.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (0FSuD)

228 I simply do not care. I wish him success just like I wish most non a holes success. If this announcement can move us closer to the day where we really don't care then good. If he wants to announce it fine. I think most people don't care.

Posted by: SH at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (tonYs)

229 And I get (from other comments) that this kid was in a tough situation. Everyone who needed to know already knew- but it was going to "leak out" anyhow, so what do you do?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 04:05 PM (PYAXX)

----------------------------------------------------

Can we please have better word choices than "leak out" when talking about someone who likes buttsecks.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (nFviW)

230 ~snore....~

Posted by: backhoe at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (ULH4o)

231 Lets put it this way: sex isn't secret, but its private. People should keep it to themselves, not make a big front page issue out of it. What sick crap you get up to in the bedroom is none of my business, is what most people believe and want it to stay at.
But I suspect this is more about leveraging victim status than anything else.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (zfY+H)

232 56 Here's my politoco-social manifesto: "I don't give a shit what you do as long as you're not trampling someone else's rights, costing me money or expecting applause." This. You have a right to expect my tolerance. You don't have the right to demand my enthusiastic support.

Posted by: That SOB van Owen at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (8bBsO)

233 And why do you hate-filled morons have to drag brave media pioneers like Shepherd Smith and Anderson Cooper into this? Shepherd is the only person at Fox who isn't a slutty bimbo or a male racist homophobe.

LEAVE SHEPHERD ALONE!!!!

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (dqSmk)

234 187 look I dont' get how people can tolerate a bunch of jokes about gay sex (like the various barney frank jokes about tea-bagging people, or mumbling because of a dick in his mouth), and then when a gay guy says "Yes I'm gay," say "Now you're putting details of gay sex right in my face!!!"
Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:11 PM (/FnUH)

Yeah, some of the comments in this thread are... well, what they are. They speak for themselves.

We can't call the left intolerant if we act like a frat house.

so where's the bewbs again? ; )

Posted by: tangonine (Space Shuttle Door Gunner) at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (x3YFz)

235 Couldn't care less if he's gay. Y'no, he doesn't have to lie. If, to use ace's example, someone asks him if he'd like to go out with Susie, he could smile and say, "No, thanks. I happen to be gay." Not a bad idea if he wants to discourage the matchmakers, etc., etc., and doesn't want to "live a lie." Or he could call a press conference, put up billboards and place an ad in the NY Times. Whatever. His prerogative. But this much I know. The belief that you can separate the celebration of homosexuality from the attacks on traditional religious liberty is to misunderstand the Left. The liberation of gays is only a means to an end. Hey, hey, ho, ho.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (dfYL9)

236 I watched '42' last night which, if you haven't seen it, you'd probably like. It is the comparisons that Sam has drawn to truly courageous men, such as Robinson, that rubs me the wrong way. Sure, coming out of the closet requires you to face potentially unpleasant biases and circumstances, but every straight person I know has faced bias and unpleasant circumstance in their life as well. Coming out of the closet, in 2014, a full 30 years after Billie Jean King professed her sexuality, is hardly "courageous" and is damn sure not "inspiring". It is the insistence by many, including our own FLOTUS, which irritates me. Not the man himself.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2014 12:17 PM (DmNpO)

237 I imagine TIME is pissed Sam didn't tell everyone his penis preference a few months ago.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (VLyds)

238 apparently he was voted one of two defensive players of the year by someone, so, you know. He would be expected to not only be drafted, but drafted rather early. Posted by: ace

Not likely. He's a tweener which means he doesn't really have a position that fits his size. Plus drama.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (38LLM)

239 Meh, it's been done, way back in my time. Nobody made a big deal about it, that's all.

But I'm gonna crochet the boy a nice ballsack as a 'welcome to the club' gift if the Rams draft him!

Posted by: Roosevelt Grier at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (DLu2s)

240

>>>But, despite the protestations about live and let live, the gay agenda is all about forcing that Christian baker to bake the dick cake for the homosexual wedding. Sorry but that is the bottom line on things. You can't sit there and say no problem because it doesn't end with having no problem with gays.

But you just don't get it! They arrived at this conclusion after years of degredation and soul-searching, decades of building up their inner courage - - - to recognise! what was the essential reality of the very being right from the start!

None of your soul-searching and plumbing of inner depths to find courage to support your [ha!] "faith" thing can hold a candle to that!

Posted by: Bigby's Helping Hands at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (3ZtZW)

241 "This issue became easy for me once I concluded that orientation is genetic. "
Except when its not, and there's zero evidence for it being so. People are literally working around the clock to find the "gay gene" and they have found zip.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (zfY+H)

242 216 Look nobody ever heard of this guy prior to his announcement. Then he was top billing on ESPN for a whole week (over the Olympics - sure, WINTER Olympics, but still) going into the draft. ********** ^This. Plus I am all about the Winter Olympics damn it. If one of you blow the damn USA v. Russia hockey results here-- Imma gonna type in ALL CAPS or somethin'. Plus I might even ram exclamation points though here. And take a rage shit. And give you the deets. Consider yourselves WARNED!

Posted by: tasker at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (RJMhd)

243 It's like "Dude, I get it. You're gay. It's no big deal. Your sexual orientation is normal. Welcome to normal....it's boring"

Parade Chanting: We're here, we're queer, get used to it!
Lisa: You do this every year, we are used to it.
Guy: Spoil sport!

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (ZKzrr)

244 SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY.

Posted by: Ben Roethisberger at February 14, 2014 12:19 PM (9TK8E)

245 BTW, there's an unintentionally hilarious article in The Nation whining that there hasn't been a conservative backlash to this guy.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 14, 2014 12:19 PM (102Hx)

246 I think I should point out again that when Britney Griner came out as a lesbian around the time she was drafted #1 overall in the WNBA, no one gave it a second thought. Then again, it IS the WNBA. Being a straight female basketball player is like being the white guy on an NBA roster... there are some but they're few and far between.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:19 PM (/Crba)

247 Like I've said before, teams already knew he was gay. They have their own security teams to do pretty thorough background checks. Most GM's knew of this months ago.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (WdbF7)

248 128 I have no problem with the guy being gay or even "coming out". I don't understand why it is national news or why I should care. Posted by: Chris Vaughn at February 14, 2014 04:02 PM (h+2SD) Wait till pedophilia gets it's turn at the national admiration for courage spotlight. And if you don't think that's coming, you haven't been keeping up with the news regarding it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (bb5+k)

249 "Anyway, that's my take. I want this gay football player to feel free to say he's gay, just as I want the religious photographer to feel free -- and not suffer government penalty -- to speak his belief that homosexuality is a sin. I would like, to the extent possible, to have an arrangement in which the most people possible are as free as possible to do what they think is right without coming to social -- or legal -- grief over it." /agree

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (BOBhx)

250 Could we have a lengthy, more descriptive post about the large breasted lesbians?

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (hpgw1)

251

Kluwe got cut by the Raiders for being less good than the other guy.

I think he got cut in Minny because he's an insufferable ass. And he is so average he's easy to replace.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (fsLdt)

252 In the longer scale of things, the Libertarian argument falls apart. Societies do not prosper when they are morally neutral.

Posted by: D-Lamp

-----------------

What do you consider the "longer scale of things"? The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start. Doesn't seem to have been a bug.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (celt+)

253 When I first saw Ellen, I thought it was David Spade after being neutered over the Hollywood Minute jokes about guys like Eddie Murphy.

Same hair, no laughs.

Ellen was and is the most unfunny person not named Margaret Cho. Her old standup routines used to range from mildly amusing to tediously boring.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 14, 2014 12:20 PM (c3zQp)

254 TNR had an article talking about the silence of conservative pundits on this. It was pretty lame.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (vd6Gd)

255 D-Lamp nobody wants to admit or recognize that, but its coming down the pipe. Multiple marriage partners is first, but yeah. 10 years on the outside.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (zfY+H)

256 I think pedofiles are born with an unusual attraction to children. Do you encourage them to come out as well? I ain't tryin' to be mean, but the only qualitative difference is the legality of the act, and as long as we aren't talking about the actual sex, then it isn't illegal to be a pedofile. One cannot help the urges they were born with.

Posted by: Immolate at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (AaHJC)

257 Oh, how awful, we laugh about Barney Frank, the guy whose boyfriend ran a callboy ring out of his basement and who helped destroy the American housing market for a piece of ass at Fannie/Freddie. How awful. For that sin, Christian bakers deserve to have their deeply held beliefs defecated on.

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (GXvSO)

258 Those photos of him at the gay club screams I'm talking about sex.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (vAjpf)

259 253 OK D Lamp is insane but lol@that analogy

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:21 PM (vd6Gd)

260 What is the mental illness rate of gay dudes vs straight dudes? Is it elevated? Is that a question we're allowed to ask? Left-handers have higher mental illness rates than right-handers. This would seem to be just an empirical fact about the universe that we could investigate. And there are some studies. It appears that gay men have at least 2x the rate of mental illness as straight men.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (ZPrif)

261 ESPN's football no-it-all asshole predicted that he would go in the 4-6th round.

And....just don't legislate social acceptance and you can call yourself whatever you want.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (QFxY5)

262 You don't think Goodell is getting pressured to pressure league owners to draft Sam? You bet your ass he is. I'll bet obama himself or someone high up in the White House is pressuring Goodell to make this historic "first" occur while the equally historic obama is in office.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (VLyds)

263 I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots draft him, if they think he has the talent/upside. Patriots players and coaches are under a perpetual virtual gag order so the press circus impact would be minimal. He'd be playing smack in the middle between Northampton and Provincetown in the State that imposed gay marriage by Judicial fiat, Belichick has no problem moving guys to new positions if he sees something there.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (ZshNr)

264 But this much I know. The belief that you can separate the celebration of homosexuality from the attacks on traditional religious liberty is to misunderstand the Left. The liberation of gays is only a means to an end. Hey, hey, ho, ho. Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 14, 2014 04:17 PM (dfYL9) So true. Their agenda is not tolerance but celebration, domination and extinguishing dissent. No thanks. If a baker doesn't want to bake a cake for your wedding, you could just cuss him/her out and badmouth him/her. Then look for another baker who actually wants the job. They are not hard to find. This is why so many of us have a problem with the movement.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (r+7wo)

265 252 Kluwe got cut by the Raiders for being less good than the other guy. I think he got cut in Minny because he's an insufferable ass. And he is so average he's easy to replace. --- He's also got a rep as a bonehead. He nearly got canned by the Vikings a few years ago after he didn't listen to coach Brad Childress and kept punting to Reggie Bush on MNF, giving up two punt returns for TDs and nearly giving up a third. He's not Ray Guy or even Daniel Sepulveda.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (/Crba)

266 When the Patriots drafted Tony Gonzalez, they knew that was a gang banger but not a murderer.

Tony Gonzalez is not a gang banger. (But he is a vegetarian. *shudder*) He's also never played for the Patriots.

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:22 PM (ZKzrr)

267 Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 04:17 PM (nFviW) For those who don't know me, I'm AllenG (Dedicated Tenther). I'm here today to reveal to you a secret I have kept since I was very young. Yes, this afternoon I'm coming out as a congenital punster. I just can't help it; it is a part of who I am.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (PYAXX)

268 211 Collins came out, no job. Collins already had no job when he came out. Bad analogy.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (7ObY1)

269 245 SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY.

Posted by: Ben Roethisberger at February 14, 2014 04:19 PM (9TK8E)

thanks man... *sniff*

Posted by: teary-eyed Kordell Stewart at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (x3YFz)

270 Nobody, but nobody, got more free PR for being a very mediocre player than Tebow. The only backup QB ever to have his own press conference when he went to the Jets and the place was a mob scene. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 04:08 PM (g1DWB) He was a starting QB with a playoff win and a former Heisman winner who could have unseated Capt Buttfumble. It wasn't Tebow's idea to have the huge press conference, it was the idiot sportswriters who created the circus to troll for viewers. Good for him for getting a job, and do I detect a little envy that someone parlayed his "controversial beliefs" into a good paying job? Tebow is what he is. If he gets paid well for it I have no problem with it. I don't have problems with guys who get paid very well to shill for the GOP establishment either. I have a problem with them pissing on my back and telling me it's raining

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (aTXUx)

271 250-except that ain't how it works and you know it. The latter is going to get and is getting destroyed. You can have some fantasy about how we will all agree to disagree and leave each other alone but that's not the gay agenda.

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (GXvSO)

272 "The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start."
Just a hint: the amount of that going on wasn't nearly as much as modern historians (who just MIGHT have an agenda) often claim. It wasn't societally embraced, it was more or less shunned but tolerated.
And a long look at Greek culture shows that the civilization was a wreck for most of that time with a few minor bright spots for short time periods. Its not like they were the Roman Empire or anything.
To make a long story short: fallacious argument.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (zfY+H)

273 Comparing gays to pedophiles is like comparing gun owners to the freaks who shoot up public schools and theaters.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (BOBhx)

274 Left-handers have higher mental illness rates than right-handers.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 04:22 PM (ZPrif)

Fuck you! I'm left-handed.

I'm going to hunt you down and tear off your head and shit down your neck!

[uh...do I need to say that I am joking?]

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (QFxY5)

275 Kluwe got cut by the Raiders for being less good than the other guy.

I think he got cut in Minny because he's an insufferable ass. And he is so average he's easy to replace.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 04:20 PM (fsLdt)

__________________

And he is a punter.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (jucos)

276 210
The whole thing just feels like a Soviet exercise where they'd observe who did not cheer exuberantly enough and have them shot.

< That.

Some gay guy is caught up in this. He doesn't want it. Manhattan media carry the key to the stocks and affix the scarlet letter.

Posted by: 13times at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (fGPLK)

277 And, yeah, as others have said. This guy is a tweener who lacks NFL size and speed. So coming out publicly might help/save his career.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (ZPrif)

278 I know very little of football but have heard of him for weeks. Was it speculation? O/T - Has OJ starved to death yet? I forgot about that until football was mentioned.

Posted by: Carol at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (IS2o0)

279 ESPN is just trying to make headlines, just like with this Martin/Incognito story today. They don't have the Olympics so covering it isn't really worth it to them. They really aren't about sports coverage anymore.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (WdbF7)

280 I don't think the "deeply held beliefs" is always a good defense. Mormons used to have "deeply held beliefs" about blacks. JWs have them about transfusions. These are different of course but it's good to intellectually back up a religious belief when engaging with the world.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (vd6Gd)

281 The BSA is now allowing gay Scouts. Fine. I wouldn't join the BSA because they required an oath to G_d, an entity in which I don't believe. But they are not, at this time, allowing openly gay scout leaders.

So I saw an article a couple of days ago about the first gay Eagle Scout. And guess what? He wants to be a Scout Leader.

http://tinyurl.com/p4q9t3c (LA Times)

You see, all barriers must fall. There can be no concern about the boys that might feel uncomfortable about being viewed as a sex object by another boy, in an environment where the focus is on achievement and not have sex as a subtext.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (cHZB7)

282 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (zfY+H)

Wow...you seem to be an expert in a lot of things.

First, molecular genetics, and now ancient Greek social history.

Impressive.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:24 PM (QFxY5)

283 I'm not sure about how much the Greeks embraced homosexuality, but I do know the Roman poet Cattulus frequently made "anti-gay" jokes about senators and other enemies. And he was very popular. So while I don't know Greece it does seem that in Roman culture, such practices were not entirely socially acceptable.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (/FnUH)

284 This has been on sports talk radio for the past week and TODAY is the first time anyone here has heard about it?

Posted by: smellbo at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (ascb8)

285 >>Or the psychological issues are caused by having to wear a mask. We all wear masks, metaphorically speaking.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (g1DWB)

286 ESPN's football no-it-all asshole predicted that he would go in the 4-6th round. --- Mel Kiper? I'm pretty sure he's also the guy who had Jimmy Clausen as one of the highest picks on the board a few years ago, going from an expected second round spot to all the way into the fourth round, on the third day of the draft.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (/Crba)

287 "Wait till pedophilia gets it's turn at the national admiration for courage spotlight. And if you don't think that's coming, you haven't been keeping up with the news regarding it."

-----------

Oh, bullshit. You can get on a lifetime sex-offender list for being 19 and having a 16-year-old girlfriend. This society is FAR less tolerant of anything that smacks of pedophilia than at any point in its history.

I know you guys think that shrugging shoulders at homosexuality is opening the floodgates to bestiality and Satanic ritual orgies being forced upon Baptist Sunday Schools, but it's not. Seriously.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (celt+)

288 "The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start." Just a hint: the amount of that going on wasn't nearly as much as modern historians (who just MIGHT have an agenda) often claim. It wasn't societally embraced, it was more or less shunned but tolerated. It also wasn't man-to-man. A lot of it was..."mentorship".

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (T0NGe)

289 Ellen was mildly funny at times, the kind of comedian that makes you smile once in a while during the routine. She wasn't Margaret Cho level unfunny, but she wasn't very good at her job, either.
Now she's trying to leverage her sexuality into being the next Oprah.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (zfY+H)

290 "In the longer scale of things, the Libertarian argument falls apart. Societies do not prosper when they are morally neutral. " I'll be glad if you can point me to a sustainable and moral centrally-planned society where government needs to protect consenting adults from doing "naughty things".

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (BOBhx)

291 Collins already had no job when he came out.

Bad analogy.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (7ObY1)

Chris Collinsworth?

Cuz that who I instantly thought of... because he's a fag.

And "fag" is different than "gay." He's just a fag.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (x3YFz)

292 Left-handers have higher mental illness rates than right-handers.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 04:22 PM (ZPrif)

Fuck you! I'm left-handed.

I'm going to hunt you down and tear off your head and shit down your neck!

[uh...do I need to say that I am joking?]

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (QFxY5)

__________________

I am ambidextrous. Sometimes I really like you and other times I want to rip of your face and piss in your eye sockets.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (jucos)

293 In defense of the Hoard. My understanding is that ace lets things roll. We all accept Gabe. Those that don't get the hammer. Barney jokes I think are open season, if not ace, you should say something. Most of the ghey jokes here are attacks on the PC of the media. I don't think we have much hate here. We have too must hate for the democrats to give a shit about any other group. Mostly the hoard are libertarians as best I can tell. GET OFF MY FUCKING LAWN!

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (0FSuD)

294 Like most people, I couldn't care less about the guy or his sexual proclivities. Or anyone else, for that matter. My worry lies in that fact that he has now chosen to let this small aspect of his life define him. He has now made his gayness the most important thing about his being (along with every other fame-seeker that ours themselves publicly). It's really sad if you ask me. But you didn't, so I'll stir that pot of beans...

Posted by: shredded chi at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (z65A/)

295 Ellen was and is the most unfunny person not named Margaret Cho. Okay, I guess we'll call that mild for someone named Captain Hate. But her sitcom was actually kind of funny. Not Seinfeld level, but maybe as funny as Night Court (though not in the same way). But when she came out, it became the gay show. And then it was no longer funny. Though there was some gag they were attempting that got that Joely Fisher chick or whatever her name is in a bra, so there is that.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (4+AaH)

296 The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start. Doesn't seem to have been a bug. *** IIRC, this particular relationship structure usually included an older man with a boy of around 12. I don't think the modern gay movement wants to argue this is the sort of relationship they are looking to emulate.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (M3hAT)

297 The first player to say he is uncomfortable showering or otherwise in stages of undress in front of this guy will be the one ostracized and called a homophobe . That's my issue.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (pJB7q)

298 O/T: Dumb ass county has sent a snow plow to clear our road. Too bad all the snow has melted off of it already and all they are doing is destroying the plow and road. The guy is too stupid to know the road doesn't need plowing?

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (T2V/1)

299 I'll be proud to throw the ball to this fine young man no matter what NFL team he's playing defense with!

Posted by: Jay Cutler at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (DLu2s)

300 I know you guys think that shrugging shoulders at homosexuality is opening the floodgates to bestiality and Satanic ritual orgies being forced upon Baptist Sunday Schools, but it's not. Seriously. As long as the courts don't get involved, you're right.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (T0NGe)

301 Damn, this thread is getting hot!

Posted by: Harry Reid at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (RhERp)

302 "Wow...you seem to be an expert in a lot of things."
Thank you for your substantive and complete refutation of my point, I stand humbled before you. Clearly you are the better man as demonstrated by your deeply informative and researched rebuttal.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (zfY+H)

303 278 And, yeah, as others have said. This guy is a tweener who lacks NFL size and speed. So coming out publicly might help/save his career. Posted by: Flatbush Joe

I think it hurts, coaches hate distraction and Sam is going to be big one. Plus there's the cocks#cking angle.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:26 PM (38LLM)

304 All I know is I think I'd rather hear about the random gay college football player than Derek Jeter retiring. We get it, MLB radio. We get it.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (jOumW)

305 211 Collins came out, no job.

Collins already had no job when he came out.

Bad analogy.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (7ObY1)

Collins only lasted as long as he did in the league because of the hard ons NBA GMs have for big men. It's why Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie were drafted ahead of Jordan.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (c3zQp)

306 >>>Oh, how awful, we laugh about Barney Frank, the guy whose boyfriend ran a callboy ring out of his basement and who helped destroy the American housing market for a piece of ass at Fannie/Freddie. How awful. For that sin, Christian bakers deserve to have their deeply held beliefs defecated on. I am bewildered at how you made that connection, and how you so badly misinterpreted my point. I didn't say it was "oh so bad." I said, if it's explicit mention of gay sex acts which is the problem, I'm not understanding how so many can pass here without anyone being offended at having it "put in my face."

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (/FnUH)

307 So, what is his favorite 'position'? Not that I care. I haven't watched an nfl game in 4 years.

Posted by: Erowmero at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (OONaw)

308 The comparison is to a mal-adaptive sex drive. There is some decent evidence that gay dudes have more fecund sisters. So the same genes that make the son gay make the daughter have more babies, so the genes are selected for. Also the language games are dumb. Being left-handed is abnormal. Most people are righties. Being gay is abnormal. Most people are striaght, 98% are. Calling an abnormal trait abnormal isn't a hate crime. At least it shouldn't be. Someone can be abnormally tall or abnormally short. Doesn't imply we hate that person.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (ZPrif)

309 296 Ellen was and is the most unfunny person not named Margaret Cho.
Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 04:26 PM (4+AaH)

He does have the Margaret Cho thing right. Quite possibly the most repulsive human being I've ever heard speak. Ex wife included, and that says a lot.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:27 PM (x3YFz)

310 Roger Goodell is no doubt turning cartwheels in his office right now...

Posted by: OregonMuse at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (I8YZX)

311

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 04:18 PM (zfY+H)

Maybe Â“geneticÂ” isnÂ’t the right word. Or it is and the gene hasnÂ’t be isolated yet.

But you canÂ’t change your orientation. I could not under any circumstance be gay. IÂ’m just not wired that way. And to have to live as a homosexual would mess me up big time.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (9KqcB)

312 >>>He's a marginal player. Small lineman, not a very effective linebacker.

-----------

Light on his feet, though.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 14, 2014 03:48 PM (SMP3h)

Well done

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (nTgAI)

313 he's just trying to make sure that he's drafted.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 13 days (1wk 6days) until spring training at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (u8GsB)

314 The problem here is that if you state that you have ethical objections to certain behavior, people are so conditioned by modern society that they think you secretly mean "... and I want the government to force people to behave a certain way by rule of law."
You can oppose something morally without needing the government to fix things.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (zfY+H)

315 Collins only lasted as long as he did in the league because of the hard ons NBA GMs have for big men. It's why Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie were drafted ahead of Jordan. --- Hakeem was a slam-dunk pick as 1st overall that year and one of the best big men of all time. Bowie, OTOH? Portland should have fucking known better because he'd already missed a lot of time with leg problems at Kentucky. The official excuse was "we've already got Drexler, we don't need Jordan", though.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (/Crba)

316 There can be no concern about the boys that might feel uncomfortable about being viewed as a sex object *** Isn't it odd that society sees a problem with girls and boys put into such a scenario, but not with say a homosexual and straight boy in the same situation?

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (M3hAT)

317 Just a quick update. When I am writing comments, would the rest of you take a break. I can not keep up and then I am lost. Do this for the elderly, Vic and I.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (0FSuD)

318 Kluwe comes out strongly in support of gay's, cut and no job.

Kluwe got cut because 1) his stats were trending sharply suck-ward and 2) his 'football intelligence' wasn't great - he insisted on kicking/punting to really dangerous returners, even when told not to.

Notably one game he joked on Twitter beforehand about how he shouldn't punt to Devin Hester, then did it anyway during the game, and Hester set the NFL all-time record for most yards on a punt return.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (102Hx)

319 holy shmokes, the ad for Kevin Costner's new movie 3 Days To Kill looks like garbage. Looks like a Steven Seagal movie with Steven Seagal corny cheesy lines.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (VLyds)

320 NFL Logo Soap on a Rope Sales are poised to skyrocket.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (RhERp)

321 196 But, despite the protestations about live and let live, the gay agenda is all about forcing that Christian baker to bake the dick cake for the homosexual wedding. Sorry but that is the bottom line on things. You can't sit there and say no problem because it doesn't end with having no problem with gays. Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 04:12 PM (GXvSO) Yup. The claim of Social Acceptance for gays strikes me the same as "I'm only going to put it in a little bit." If you think this shit stops with tolerance, then you don't really understand the nature of the force confronting you. It's like Islam.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:28 PM (bb5+k)

322 How do we really know that gay marriage is as popular as some folks around here think it is? When put to a vote, it usually loses, pretty comfortably, even in the bluest of blue areas. What we have had lately is a rash of local-level Dem AGs refusing to do their jobs and defend their state DOMA laws,allowing federal judges to impose SSM. This is a 10th amendment issue if there ever was one.

Posted by: Biff Boffo at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (YmPwQ)

323 Calling an abnormal trait abnormal isn't a hate crime. At least it shouldn't be. Someone can be abnormally tall or abnormally short. Doesn't imply we hate that person. --- HATE CRIME!

Posted by: Abby Normal at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (/Crba)

324 Dr. Spank, you made me laugh with your comment, I think it was #3 & even more so with the gay part.

Posted by: Carol at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (IS2o0)

325 >I don't care that he's gay, or that he's not gay, I wish him success, but I'm not a fan of any pro sport that doesn't involve a steering wheel.

Sport? Steering wheel? I hate to break it to you sir...

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (ZWvOb)

326 "I know you guys think that shrugging shoulders at homosexuality is opening the floodgates to bestiality and Satanic ritual orgies being forced upon Baptist Sunday Schools, but it's not. Seriously." Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (BOBhx)

327 >>Collins only lasted as long as he did in the league because of the hard ons NBA GMs have for big men. That sounds kind of gay.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (g1DWB)

328

Yes, this afternoon I'm coming out as a congenital punster. I just can't help it; it is a part of who I am.

Which is worse than Hitler.

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (fsLdt)

329 "I'm not sure about how much the Greeks embraced homosexuality..."

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:25 PM (/FnUH)

Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized.

If you paint it on a vase, presumably for sale, then it is at least in the neighborhood of mainstream.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:29 PM (QFxY5)

330 So coming out publicly might help/save his career.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

No. No way.

Why draft drama? The kid fucked up his chances. No GM/Head Coach/Owner combination is going to invite this media circus to town.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (x3YFz)

331 First, better to get this out of the way as early as possible. That's what good political campaign managers advise.

Second, assuming he did it for publicity -- so effing what? He's a projected 5th rounder; he's not entitled to try to improve on that? I had never heard of him before now.

Third, trust. If a guy is man enough to come out of the closet, do you think he's going to intentionally whiff on a block? Ok, the guy's on D, but it's an analogy. Ask Steve Young about macho straight guys whiffing on blocks.

Fourth, why encourage otherwise-small-c-conservative gays from voting Dem just because Dems don't publicly bash their sexuality?

BTW, disclaimer: I have a cat. I'm straight. There.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (S1ANu)

332 "But you canÂ’t change your orientation. I could not under any circumstance be gay. IÂ’m just not wired that way. And to have to live as a homosexual would mess me up big time. "
I agree for most cases. I consider it to be an innate inclination (like people who eat too much or prefer hot climates, a part of you) but everyone thinks all of humanity can be reduced to DNA.
There are more than a few cases, however, where people think they're one way and then grow out of it or learn they aren't really in the end. I've seen it happen. Not by some program or indoctrination but just growing up and realizing something in their lives wasn't right.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (zfY+H)

333 If you paint it on a vase, presumably for sale, then it is at least in the neighborhood of mainstream. Or at least the Castro District.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (4+AaH)

334 Ask Steve Young about macho straight guys whiffing on blocks. --- Yeah, i don't think he remembers much about that these days.

Posted by: Lawrence Phillips at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (/Crba)

335 "If you paint it on a vase, presumably for sale, then it is at least in the neighborhood of mainstream."
By that argument the internet proves Goatsie is mainstream.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (zfY+H)

336 274 Comparing gays to pedophiles is like comparing gun owners to the freaks who shoot up public schools and theaters. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (BOBhx) except when you compare the ghey harvey milk to a pedaphile, because he actually was.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 13 days (1wk 6days) until spring training at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (u8GsB)

337 What do you consider the "longer scale of things"? The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start. Doesn't seem to have been a bug.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:20 PM (celt+)

------------------------------------------------

So, how long was the decline? We're still considered the USA, but since the 60's we've been in a long spiraling decline. And it started (in the 60's) with the national motto, "If it feels good, do it". Immorality has a price. And it's a bitch to pay going toward the end of that decline.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (nFviW)

338 85 -It's when they tell you that they're gay, and every external indicator is that you find that utterance as fascinating as someone announcing that they have brown hair.
Some of them will even repeat themselves if you fail to respond with the desired degree of shocked face.

I've posted this before, I live in Hollywood and about 10% of the Gay Community here are exactly like that, every conversation begins and ends with their sexuality. But the other 90% is the opposite, they just want a normal existence, normal conversation and would much rather talk about sports or the weather.

Posted by: Kaisersoze at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (ak/ho)

339 Ace have you seen this from the morning thread?

Another Obamanite outrage against the constitution. Not satisfied with the press fellating him every hour of the day, he plans to send FCC agents into the newsrooms to "monitor" the press. I suspect Fox will get a lot of these "agents".

http://tinyurl.com/m9ml6m6

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (T2V/1)

340 Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection. Hahahahahajajaja! Yep.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (VLyds)

341 "It's like Islam." I'm sorry but I've been friends with gay conservatives and what you are saying is absurd. There's no comparison between gays and Islam. This sounds like the liberal pundits who compare gun rights advocates to anti-gov timothy mcveigh terrorists.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (BOBhx)

342 >>Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized. Or just watch The Bird Cage. Try the soup.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:31 PM (g1DWB)

343 >>>Because it is a joke. joke or not, that image is still put in your head (or you yourself put that image into someone else's head), so if the problem is having explicit gay sex acts mentioned, why is there no consternation about it here? Why is it that when you (or someone else) makes a dick-in-the-mouth mumble-mumble joke, that's NOT about explicit gay sex acts, but if a guy just says "i'm gay," that IS about explicit gay sex acts? Look, none of us are naifs. We all know the basics of what gay people do as far as sex. Why this pretending that if a gay guy says he's gay it's only then that we suddenly realize that gay sex involves gay sex?

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (/FnUH)

344 O/T: Dumb ass county has sent a snow plow to clear our road. Too bad all the snow has melted off of it already and all they are doing is destroying the plow and road. The guy is too stupid to know the road doesn't need plowing? Posted by: Vic ------------- Happens all of the time. Hell on the asphalt and machinery. I'm not going to blame the operators too much. I suspect it is the lack of discretionary latitude that is allowed to public employees these days.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (aDwsi)

345

On the born that way thing or choice, I think both are most certainly true. Just have to look at prisons to see that.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (n0DEs)

346 Breaking News: Cowboys QB Tony Romo Traded To Houston Texans For #1 Overall Pick

http://tinyurl.com/mdyybhb

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (38LLM)

347 Also in re: to above post: hahahaha!

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (VLyds)

348 343 >>Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized. Or just watch The Bird Cage. Try the soup. --- It appears to be little Greek boys playing leapfrog!

Posted by: Mother Coleman at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (/Crba)

349 311 Roger Goodell is no doubt turning cartwheels in his office right now...

Posted by: OregonMuse at February 14, 2014 04:28 PM (I8YZX)

Now that. That right there. That's funny.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (x3YFz)

350

278 -

This isn't even one of those things where people are speculating. It's well known that linemen in college can be very effective pass rushers, and have little chance of succeeding in the pros. He's one of them.

And, he WAS tried at the linebacker position, and is known to not be very good at it. Pass rushing from the line is a very different skill set from the all-purpose linebacker position.

Contrary to the joke made up-thread, he's NOT very quick on his feet, the way you need a linebacker to be. Some team in the NFL might take a chance on him, but he's not going to be a star, and probably not even starter material. More likely a special teams kind of guy.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (TOk1P)

351 As has been pointed out, Sam had no choice about it coming out. He went to post-season events and scouts walked up to him and asked him about it. I'm sure local sports media knew and were deciding how long to hold it for full dramatic effect.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (ZshNr)

352 BTW, disclaimer: I have a cat. I'm straight.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (SY2Kh)

353 >>Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized. ----------------- Then, go witness the greatness of the surviving Greek culture.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (aDwsi)

354

I know some people will say "Why tell anyone? Why put it in our faces?"

I think the answer to that is severalfold:

I'm cynical enough to think that this is all about trying to game the draft. No matter what his skills on the field, if he doesn't get drafted high in the first round, the Mauve Mafia will go to the mattresses against the NFL. Bank on it.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (TIIx5)

355 Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized. Ancient Greece included about five hundred years of history* and many wildly different societies, arguing about whether homosexuality/pederasty were supported overall is hard to really answer either way. *Say Greek dark ages until the rise of Macedon?

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (M3hAT)

356 The problem Republicans/conservatives/the right has is an inconsistency in their principles. I think ace's views are typical of the problem, so I'll pick on him, but the problem is much more widespread, probably even majority-held on the right.

ace, I believe, holds the following views:
1. it should be ok under the law for a photographer to refuse to work a gay wedding. He specifically mentions religious objections, but I think he would also want the photographer to be able to refuse on non religious reason, just a personal morality.
2. It should not be ok for a photographer to refuse to work a mixed race wedding because the photographer has some prejudice against blacks marrying whites.

In the past, many on the right have been ok with treating things like race differently than something like homosexuality, arguing that race is something they are born with, while sexuality is about behavior and is controlled by the choices one makes. The left has objected to the legitimacy of this attempt at a distinction, arguing that sexuality is something that is as much an unchangeable part of who an individual is as race is, and that is unfair to punish people for being who they are.

Now, many on the right are starting to decide that they can't maintain the sexuality is a choice point of view, so they are falling back to the position that while we want to be more accepting of gays, we should also be accepting towards those that have objections. Let the religious have their objections. For now.

The logic does not work. If homosexuality is as integral to a person's makeup as is race, than how can it be that it is unacceptable to have a prejudice based on race, but it is ok to have a bias based on sexuality? The left will insist, and the right will eventually acquiesce, that it is just as unacceptable, so the laws must also match. Goodbye freedom to object.

If we really want to protect our individual freedom of association, we must also protect it for businesses. Even if some businesses have some ugly prejudices, with liberty, we must accept the good with the bad.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (IN7k+)

357 311 Roger Goodell is no doubt turning cartwheels in his office right now... Posted by: OregonMuse at February 14, 2014 04:28 PM (I8YZX) Goodell's openly gay brother is ... http://tinyurl.com/ma7cp2u

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (aTXUx)

358

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 04:13 PM (vd6Gd)

Dear Sir or Madame, you are a fool.

Posted by: dr kill at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (EfXcQ)

359 ' "This issue became easy for me once I concluded that orientation is genetic. " Except when its not, and there's zero evidence for it being so. People are literally working around the clock to find the "gay gene" and they have found zip. ' Gay people are happy with the ambiguity. They don't want it to be definitively a choice, because then legal restrictions aren't as problematic. On the other hand, they don't want it to be definitively genetic, either, because they're worried about parents aborting their would-have-been-gay kids. Or worse, the possibility a cure could exist. In reality, there aren't many people looking into this question, because academics aren't at all encouraged to look into it.

Posted by: Ace's liver at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (8T0N0)

360 257 I think pedofiles are born with an unusual attraction to children. Do you encourage them to come out as well? I ain't tryin' to be mean, but the only qualitative difference is the legality of the act

-----------------

And the rather salient difference that a child cannot give consent. You may have noticed that society has many rules limiting the ability of children to engage in particular activities for their protection until they have the mature ability to make decisions.

All of the "tolerate homosexuality and you have to tolerate bestiality and pedophilia" arguments fall apart because children and animals can't consent.

Tolerating adult consumption of alcohol doesn't mean children will be allowed to drink. In fact, our society has severely RESTRICTED the drinking age compared to the past.

None of the "if X than inevitably Y" arguments hold any water.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (celt+)

361 It's been said before, but if this kid is well-behaved in public and monogamous, then I have less of a problem with him than with the various baby daddies, armed robbers, and sex offenders in pro and college sports. They're why I stopped watching big time sports except for my hometown Spurs, and that is a team that consciously tries to recruit well-behaved players.

Posted by: stace at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (9PXzx)

362 Homosexuality used to be the sin that dare not speak its own name. Now it is the sin that will not shut the hell up.

Posted by: navybrat at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (AW7Gr)

363

347 -

Wow! Seriously?

If so, Houston is really really stupid.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (TOk1P)

364 Wanna get stoned? Have fun. But your unemployment/welfare benefits need to be drug-tested.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto

Hey Taro, does this work the same way if we substitute "drunk" for stoned? Yes? Glad to see at least you're a consistent drug warrior. Good to know.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (S1ANu)

365 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 04:26 PM (zfY+H)

Multiple causes for homosexuality. It's a complex behavior, and the theories are that many genes contribute.

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

And I refuted your other blather already.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (QFxY5)

366 "The official excuse was "we've already got Drexler, we don't need Jordan", though."
Well that and Jordan wasn't as spectacular in college as he was in the pros. Yes it was a dumb move but at the time it looked smart, objectively. Clyde Drexler was amazing, just not Michael Jordan.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (zfY+H)

367 Breaking News: Cowboys QB Tony Romo Traded To Houston Texans For #1 Overall Pick http://tinyurl.com/mdyybhb *** that's a satire site

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (DmNpO)

368 Isn't it odd that society sees a problem with girls and boys put into such a scenario, but not with say a homosexual and straight boy in the same situation? Actually, the rape of boys is a source of comedy in our culture. From Airplane! to your favorite Seth McFarlane cartoon.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (T0NGe)

369 I think it's fine for people to say they're gay. It's certainly better than being in the closet. However, the way it's handled now with "celebrity" gays it's as if we should worship their gayness or pretend that they're big heroes for simply coming out. Michelle Obama thinks Robin Givens (? ) TV personality who makes millions a year and whom is surrounded by the left is a hero? I don't think so. You might be more courageous if you came out to some of your evangelical Christian family. A number of people have come out to me. I loved them before I knew (and yes, I thought some of them were gay before but I didn't ask) and continue to love them. Some of these people are ministers in denominations that don't ordain practicing gays.,but there's no comparison between these people whose careers might be on the line and Pro football plays making millions a year. Seriously, where's the risk except from some ribbing from your teamates?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (XyM/Y)

370 You are delusional, Ace.

People don't do this kind of rational, neutral principle balancing. You are either in the in-group or the out-group.

This dude isn't coming out as some moral act. He's doing it to support his ideological team. His coming out will do jackshit to help Christians preserve their rights. It will help the people who are trying to marginalize us as wierd and to use state power against us. You know this, or ought to know this, except that Team Celebrate the Sexual Revolution is your team too, so you pretend you don't.

I could care less if this guy wants to let the world know that he likes to suck cock. But let's not pretend its some kind of moral stance that will stop our secular high priests from persecuting Christians.

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (ZMzpb)

371 Actually, you may or may not be a fool, but you certainly sound foolish.

Posted by: dr kill at February 14, 2014 12:34 PM (EfXcQ)

372 podcast thread up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (DmNpO)

373 Okay, when the opposing team tackles this guy, did they do it to win the game, or did they do it because they're homophobes? You know that's coming.

Posted by: Null at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (DuH+r)

374

289...It also wasn't man-to-man. A lot of it was..."mentorship".

Yeah. The ancient Greeks had those coming-of-age ceremonies...whereby the men would bugger teenage boys, as a way of "imparting their knowledge to the boy".

I don't know if the boys had a choice in their participation in that.

But the whole idea of it is creepy.

Posted by: wheatie at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (eCZwh)

375 Hakeem was a slam-dunk pick as 1st overall that year and one of the best big men of all time.

Bowie, OTOH? Portland should have fucking known better because he'd already missed a lot of time with leg problems at Kentucky.

I liked Hakeem a great deal but the only championships he won was when Jordan was on his baseball hiatus (including when he came back in the late season). Portland also took Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant; you'd think they'd learn after a while.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (c3zQp)

376 "And the rather salient difference that a child cannot give consent. "
That's a red herring. Consent is only an issue because that's what the law has been constructed around. Homosexual behavior used to be illegal, too.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (zfY+H)

377 Well, he can come here and play, and be welcome. Everybody already knows we suck!

Posted by: The Chicago Bears at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (DLu2s)

378 368 Breaking News: Cowboys QB Tony Romo Traded To Houston Texans For #1 Overall Pick http://tinyurl.com/mdyybhb *** that's a satire site --- I figured that out when I saw that it said Romo came out of the closet about his relationship with Jason Witten.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (/Crba)

379 Or the psychological issues are caused by having to wear a mask. This issue became easy for me once I concluded that orientation is genetic. Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 04:17 PM (9KqcB) If you believe this, then you need to be informed regarding the high incidence of molestation regarding people who later claim to be "gay." Here's a good place to start with the Journal of the American Medical Association. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=188232 There may be a genetic component for some, but the evidence indicates for others it's trauma.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (bb5+k)

380 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (BOBhx) I don't believe he was comparing the acts but the fact that both are innate to those individuals. They feel they were born that way.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (r+7wo)

381 Sexual orientation clearly can be changed. It's not true that it's set in stone from birth. Evidence is rife that being molested by a man as a young boy will increase your sexual attraction to men. We can give a person hormones at various stages in your life and significantly adjust their sexuality.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (ZPrif)

382 Posted by: ace

Making the occasional, harmless, gay reference hardly puts ghey sex front and center in our minds, it's a passing thought. What we're about to see with Mr Sam is a full court homosexual press, in sports, which most people watch to get away from social, political, home, work, health, and other issues.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (38LLM)

383 So, a ghey player will be playing next autumn. Let's all dance and CELEBRATE because, whatever .... But God as my witness, if this has any effect on the ELBOW pictures, there's going to be an insurrection!!

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (aTXUx)

384 Is that a Rick roll? I don't trust the Romo story, but am soooo curious.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (ZshNr)

385 "Then, go witness the greatness of the surviving Greek culture. Posted by: Mike Hammer"

--------------

So you believe it is possible for a society to maintain greatness for eternity as long as they follow particular moral strictures? Really?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:36 PM (celt+)

386 One thing that always puzzles me are sex changes. How many regret it later? What is the suicide rate afterwards? Where are those statistics because you know having your weenie whacked off or breasts off will soon be a right that we have to pay for.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (rfCrI)

387 Let your freak flag fly. Don't expect me to buy it or salute it

Yeah, that's what those bakery ladies thought, too, before a court FORCED THEM.to provide a cake for a homosexual wedding.

It's gone from "leave me alone" to "you're not clapping loud enough, citizen."

All in the space of 3 decades.

Posted by: OregonMuse at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (I8YZX)

388 Mmost historical societies that accepted and celebrated male homosexuality specifically celebrate the NAMBLA statutory rape version of male homosexuality involving an adult man and young teenage boy. From ancient Greece to modern Afghanistan, the accepted form was an adult male taking on a young partner around 14 or so. Not two 18+ adult males. If you want to argue that something is ok because it is natural, the not uncommon practice of man-teenage boy relationships has been widely observed in many different human societies and cultures. That doesn't mean we should accept it. Of course, most human societies also accepted adult male, young teenage girl relationships. And society has to fight hard against this "natural" attraction as well.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (ZPrif)

389 How do we really know that gay marriage is as popular as some folks around here think it is? I know it isn't what you mean, but I'm still surprised it gets support from gays, what with marriage being the ultimate in heteronormativity. You'd've been called homophobic 20 years ago for suggesting gays should get married. Why? Because they're so promiscuous? H8r! Of course, I think a lot of them are under the impression that marriage is optional. Heh.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (T0NGe)

390 Second, assuming he did it for publicity -- so effing what? He's a projected 5th rounder; he's not entitled to try to improve on that?

Most guys do that by training hard (and smart) and putting on a good show at the combine, not going on the TV to talk about their personal life.

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (ZKzrr)

391 I can't believe nobody got my Mask reference. Pearls to swine.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:37 PM (g1DWB)

392 There's no comparison between gays and Islam. *** Most Muslims don't support the Salafism yet most are willing to let the Salafists speak for Islam as a whole. I have no idea if most homosexuals support the homosexual political movement or not, but if any significant number oppose it they are doing rather less then Muslims are doing to follow up on that opposition. Hell, I remember when most homosexuals would tell you "gay marriage" was a joke...and now apparently opposing it is a hate crime...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (M3hAT)

393 Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection. And get a license from the state, of course.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (T0NGe)

394 Last stat I saw was that over 1/3rd of sex change patients commit suicide. Their problem is not their gender, it's their mental illness.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (ZPrif)

395

"I consider it to be an innate inclination (like people who eat too much or prefer hot climates, a part of you) but everyone thinks all of humanity can be reduced to DNA."

Probably more than a consumption-like inclination, but could be less than all out DNA wiring. But it's not a choice, in most cases.

Posted by: CJ at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (9KqcB)

396
ha ha.

related to Ace's post from #347:

http://www.empiresports.co/tony-romo-and-jason-witten-admit-to-homosexual-romance/

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (n0DEs)

397 That would've been a hell of a sports story. Manziel still slated to go number one to Houston, speaking of undersized players and media circuses.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (ZshNr)

398 I may not know who the first homo is to come out in the NFL, but I damn sure know who the fat-fingered imbecile is who's spending the rest of Valentine's Day in the barrel.

Posted by: Fritz at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (UzPAd)

399 Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 04:33 PM (M3hAT)

I'll defer to you on this one, but I think that my point still stands. There was a significant time period during which Greek art included depictions of homosexuality.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (QFxY5)

400 Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:29 PM (BOBhx)

Anyone going to the hetro day parade this year? Oh that's right we don't have parades about who we're screwing including all assorted fetishes and perversions. If they want people to stay out of their bedroom perhaps a bit of discretion would be advised.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (FE/sZ)

401 Funny how few protestations of shock I have heard relative to his means of satisfying his sexual urges. Not much about "in your face" either, nor have I heard of any socon having the vapors over the development. Most folks, with the exception of the media (liberal media), could care less about him coming out.

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (GXvSO)

402 I liked Hakeem a great deal but the only championships he won was when Jordan was on his baseball hiatus (including when he came back in the late season). Portland also took Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant; you'd think they'd learn after a while. --- Hakeem had the bad fortune to play when several great dynasties existed. Lakers and Celtics of the 80s / early 90s, Bulls of the 90s, Pistons of the late 80s / early 90s, etc. And as far as Portland goes, they also drafted Bill Walton and he had chronic leg and foot problems while playing there. If Portland makes it deep in the playoffs this year, "Sideshow Rob" Lopez better watch out for a sudden injury to his legs.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (/Crba)

403 >>>Let your freak flag fly. Don't expect me to buy it or salute it ... >>>Yeah, that's what those bakery ladies thought, too, before a court FORCED THEM.to provide a cake for a homosexual wedding. It's gone from "leave me alone" to "you're not clapping loud enough, citizen." All in the space of 3 decades. ... I agree with this as I said. What I don't agree with is that the fight for the photographer's rights will be aided by some general negative social messaging about homosexuality. In fact, that is why I think we lose on winner issues like the baker or photographer. I think people just decide, in their gut, "Oh they hate gays, what bigots," and then we lose on meritorious issues.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (/FnUH)

404 Are you saying Romo isn't gay with Jason Witten? That's why the story has legs in my mind.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (38LLM)

405 360 ' "This issue became easy for me once I concluded that orientation is genetic. "

Except when its not, and there's zero evidence for it being so. People are literally working around the clock to find the "gay gene" and they have found zip. '

Posted by: Ace's liver at February 14, 2014 04:34 PM (8T0N0)

In the military, I served in a field that was 70% lesbian (low end estimation). Many became good friends. Some *became* lesbian right in front of my eyes (not literally).

Many came from abusive families. Abusive fathers, uncles. They just hated men so...

I didn't see a genetic thing in that group, more of a behavioral thing.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (x3YFz)

406 Re 39 Lee's progressive reloaders are okay and cheaper than the competition. They do take some tinkering with to get them to run reliably especially if you prime using the press or change calibers much. Instead, I would suggest the Lee Classic Turret that loads much faster than a single stage loader but is about half the productivity of a good progressive-about 150 rounds per hour. I have one because I reload for a bunch of different cartridges including odd caliber rifles. You can buy the die plate for about $10 and leave the dies on each plate as adjusted. That way, you don't have to constantly adjust dies when reloading. Much more useful and cheaper than a progressive if you reload a multiplicity of cartridges--also can use as a single stage for load development if necessary. Even Lee bashers generally admit that the Classic Cast is probably the best of Lee's presses. But, if you want progressive, I would get the Lee Loadmaster over the Lee 1000 because of the flexibility with the two extra die stations-just be sure to go online for videos on how to tweak it for best performance. Lee 1000's can be hit or miss. If you are reloading just one pistol caliber, try the Dillon Square Deal--changing calibers though is a pain and expensive. I am currently evaluating buying one just for 9mm as it has proven more problematic for me. If you like multiple calibers and rifle rounds, most folks that I know recommend the Dillon 550 progressive but expect to pay about 5-6 bills when fully tricked out and about one hundred for each additional caliber. Imho, RCBS progressive are not that good for the cost (about the same as Dillon, and I have heard Hornady's LNL progressive is also good if you don't like Big Blue but it is also similar in cost to the Dillon. Lyman and Redding also make turret presses but Redding is about as expensive as a progressive and I have only seen an old Lyman T press in operation--so no opinion about current ones T-mag. Try thehighroad.org firearms discussion group and go to the reloading section. There a lot of real experts there as well as average Joes with opinions and helpful advice about presses.

Posted by: wg at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (NexNz)

407 A few things here: 1. Team scouts pretty much all knew he was gay. 28 of 32 teams surveyed indicated as much. 2. There is a great likelihood that this information would come out as part of the draft process, so I think this is about getting in front of things rather than any victim thing. 3. When you talk about your girlfriend, you are not rubbing sex in anyone's face. When Sam talks about his boyfriend, he is not rubbing sex in anyone's face.

Posted by: EM August at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (be7oN)

408

Clyde the Glide was Jordan before Jordan was Jordan. He was fun to watch.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at February 14, 2014 12:39 PM (jucos)

409 What do you consider the "longer scale of things"? The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start. Doesn't seem to have been a bug. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:20 PM (celt+) The Greeks practiced Man-Boy sex. They discouraged Man-Man sex. As for being a bug, where is their civilization now?

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (bb5+k)

410 Hey Taro, does this work the same way if we substitute "drunk" for stoned? Yes? Glad to see at least you're a consistent drug warrior. Good to know.
Posted by: SFGoth

-----------------

Yes, it does. Any other questions?

I've got one for you - alcohol is a demonstrably deadly, family-destroying drug. Far worse than pot by several orders of magnitude. It is legal and pot is not. Do you likewise support consistent laws between the two?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (celt+)

411 We can give a person hormones at various stages in your life and significantly adjust their sexuality.

You saw the study that showed that women who take hormonal birth control like wussier men than women who don't?

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (ZKzrr)

412 Hakeem was one of the all-time greats. Not a good example of a bad draft pick.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (ZPrif)

413 Mentorship, because math,m right? Men sure as hell tore something.

Just kidding. Greeks openly mocked anal sex. They had a [whole] different notion.

Romans never thought of themselves as anything but an outgrowth and footnote of Greek culture. They did all their important writing in Greek, and had sort of a complex about that. Did they "conquer" Greece? Yeah sure. But they never presumed to supersede it.

Already at the time of our founding, the matter of Rome was much more about avoiding their decline than aspiring to their rise. They were already rotters before the Republic ended, and with few exceptions, never got any better. Are they just as interesting as hell, historically? Hell yes. But you wouldn't want to be them.

You can't make much of their writings about sex, gay or not, because it is all masked behind layers of ironic mockery, their finest art form. Plus, slavery. It has recently been declaimed rather forcefully that all the anti-sexual attitudes of early Christianity grew out of the moral union of sexual activity, all of it, with the experience of slavery in Rome. The Greeks may have been little better, but there's no way you can portray them as effete and decadent compared to Rome.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (xq1UY)

414 Couldn't have said it better myself, Ace. Nice post. Another reason this is good, besides all of what you said, is that the political left uses these wedge issues by dripping out one example of gender, race, sex, what have you just to bait and catch. "Oh look at this obscure comment embedded and buried way deep in that 1-viewer blog that says mean things against gays..." But, it is blown up out of proportion in reality to stir up sh*t for the votes. Bring it on. Let it all hang out. Sick of the exploiters.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: ♥♥♥ Day at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (IXrOn)

415 "So you believe it is possible for a society to maintain greatness for eternity as long as they follow particular moral strictures? Really?"
In theory, but we always mess it up. We'll never know.
"It's gone from "leave me alone" to "you're not clapping loud enough, citizen."
Or, "I didn't get a Harrumph from that guy!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (zfY+H)

416 "Anyone going to the hetro day parade this year? Oh that's right we don't have parades about who we're screwing including all assorted fetishes and perversions. If they want people to stay out of their bedroom perhaps a bit of discretion would be advised." You're right. You should have told MLK to just shut up and stop drawing attention to Black people with his complaints about racism. The best way to deal with oppression is to be quiet and submissive! Gay people have to do this because society tries to place unfair laws against them. Just because some gay culture is gross doesn't mean all gay culture is, just like the existence of the violent Black Panthers hardly means that all Blacks are crazy.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (BOBhx)

417

Breaking News: Cowboys QB Tony Romo Traded To Houston Texans For #1 Overall Pick
http://tinyurl.com/mdyybhb

Holy shit for reals?

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (fsLdt)

418 I think he's trying to improve his draft status. It's a rather canny move. Someone will go out on a limb and draft him higher than what his talents and upside would suggest. But frankly, I don't care. There are exactly two groups of people whose sexual orientation and proclivities matter to me: 1. those I want to have sex with 2. those who want to have sex with me

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (1hM1d)

419 Hey, maybe we could work a discussion pro v. con circumcision in here. That should be a real traffic builder

Posted by: Tim 'The Florida Clipper' Tebow at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (EfXcQ)

420 >>>Making the occasional, harmless, gay reference hardly puts ghey sex front and center in our minds, it's a passing thought. What we're about to see with Mr Sam is a full court homosexual press, in sports, which most people watch to get away from social, political, home, work, health, and other issues. true but what it will not be about is 'putting it in your face" regarding explicit sex acts. Again, to the extend that that's the problem, supposedly, I'm still not sure why his statements which do NOT reference sex will be claimed to be putting it in someone's face, whereas a mumble-mumble joke puts no imagery at all in your head about specific gay sex acts.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (/FnUH)

421 257 I think pedofiles are born with an unusual attraction to children. Do you encourage them to come out as well? I ain't tryin' to be mean, but the only qualitative difference is the legality of the act, and as long as we aren't talking about the actual sex, then it isn't illegal to be a pedofile. One cannot help the urges they were born with. Posted by: Immolate at February 14, 2014 04:21 PM (AaHJC) If we are going to discuss the legality of it, Homosexuality also used to be illegal. As a matter of fact, in the early part of our nation's history, it was a DEATH PENALTY OFFENSE. Pedophilia is where Homosexuality was in the 1950s, and heading towards the same sort of acceptance if you've been following the various news articles regarding it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:41 PM (bb5+k)

422 I ran into Mutombo in the Atlanta airport last year. Holy shit he is one enormous human. Nice guy too. Stopped about every five feet to greet everyone who wanted to say hi.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (g1DWB)

423

Coming out certainly hasn't helped Jason Collins' career...

His 1.2 pts and .5 rebounds a game probably didn't help much. He just isn't that good. The Wizards have done quite well without him.

Posted by: puddleglum at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (+voRh)

424 if/when he's drafted you all better buy his jersey or you're all homophobes!!!!!!

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 13 days (1wk 6days) until spring training at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (u8GsB)

425 371-bingo.

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (GXvSO)

426 418 Breaking News: Cowboys QB Tony Romo Traded To Houston Texans For #1 Overall Pickhttp://tinyurl.com/mdyybhb Holy shit for reals? --- Nope, joke site. Seems like exactly what the Texans would do, though, which is why everyone believes it.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (/Crba)

427 My .02 on the "born with it" thing is both. I knew the little boy I used to babysit would be gay since he was a toddler. Now he's an adult, and yes, is gay. However, some people's sexual attraction is the result of their life experiences. At the end of the day, does it really matter?

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (jOumW)

428 You know, I was gonna request a boobs thread so we can reset ourselves straight so to speak. The Podcast post will do, I suppose.

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (VLyds)

429 "It has recently been declaimed rather forcefully that all the anti-sexual attitudes of early Christianity grew out of the moral union of sexual activity, all of it, with the experience of slavery in Rome."
Allow me to quote to you from Paul of Tarsus, early Christian:
3 A husband should satisfy his wifeÂ’s sexual needs. And a wife should satisfy her husbandÂ’s sexual needs.
4 The wifeÂ’s body does not belong only to her. It also belongs to her husband. In the same way, the husbandÂ’s body does not belong only to him. It also belongs to his wife. 5 You shouldnÂ’t stop giving yourselves to each other except when you both agree to do so. And that should be only to give yourselves time to pray for a while. Then you should come together again.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:42 PM (zfY+H)

430 And the rather salient difference that a child cannot give consent. But if a pedophile is born that way, what can they do? What kind of life are you condemning them to?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (T0NGe)

431 423 I ran into Mutombo in the Atlanta airport last year. Holy shit he is one enormous human. Nice guy too. Stopped about every five feet to greet everyone who wanted to say hi. --- Not today!

Posted by: Dikembe Mutombo at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (/Crba)

432 oh shit what a cockup that turned out to be

Posted by: Soothsayer in Ten Forward at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (VLyds)

433 You're right. You should have told MLK to just shut up and stop drawing attention to Black people with his complaints about racism. The best way to deal with oppression is to be quiet and submissive!

Gay people have to do this because society tries to place unfair laws against them. Just because some gay culture is gross doesn't mean all gay culture is, just like the existence of the violent Black Panthers hardly means that all Blacks are crazy.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:41 PM (BOBhx)

Because marching for civil rights is the same as guys in leather gyrating on a float.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (FE/sZ)

434 260 253 OK D Lamp is insane but lol@that analogy Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 04:21 PM (vd6Gd) And if you think you are not, you are. I suspect insanity is a given when dealing with the human mind.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (bb5+k)

435 Sexual orientation clearly can be changed. It's not true that it's set in stone from birth. *** Yep. It has been clearly observed that when separated from members of the opposite sex for extended periods of time some otherwise heterosexual people will have homosexual relationships. That basically invalidates the notion that homosexuality is primarily genetic, as either those people are gay...or not...and yet it appears far more fluid then that.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (M3hAT)

436 'putting it in your face"

Pleas use another reference, cuz that's putting weird images in my mind.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (38LLM)

437 Holy shit for reals?

Posted by: eleven at February 14, 2014 04:41 PM (fsLdt)

no. It's an "onion" type site.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (x3YFz)

438 "Pedophilia is where Homosexuality was in the 1950s, and heading towards the same sort of acceptance if you've been following the various news articles regarding it. " That's absurd. I personally know a church youth mentor who is in the Federal pen for more than 10 years for having sex with a 16 year old guy. They certainly butt-f*cked him with every inch of the law.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (BOBhx)

439 253 Taro Tsujimoto What do you consider the "longer scale of things"? The Greeks seemed to have no problem prospering for quite a very long time while actively engaging in man-to-man sex from the start. Doesn't seem to have been a bug. There's a book, "Greek Homosexuality", ISBN-13: 978-0674362703, that draws up existing Classical Greek writings, to discuss "Greek" views. There are quotes of contemporary sources (430-404 B.C.) that indicate that the Athenians (and many other Greeks) were rather conflicted and more than slightly embarrassed about their ... hobby(?). Some Athenian playwrights of the time made fun of homosexual conduct. Note that, as the Greeks became increasingly exposed to the non-Greek world, the social acceptability of homosexual conduct declined greatly, more or less retreating to the shadows and the bad parts of town ... all of this pre-Christianity. Recall Philip II's words about the Theban Sacred Band (which he has just eradicated in battle). "Homosexuals are born that way". There's evidence that many are indeed born this way. There are some very small sample sizes of cadaver brains of homosexuals that indicate that certain parts of the brain are of the type/size/formation/etc., found in females. But there's also evidence that abuse, when young, can be the cause. In either case, the subject has/had essentially no choice in the matter. Whose fault? Not the individuals ... but not mine either. Entitled to the usual equality before the law ... ok. A special, protected class, entitled to special protection / consideration / rights not available to others ... due to a certain preference / behavior? I say "no".

Posted by: Arbalest at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (FlRtG)

440 "Gay people have to do this because society tries to place unfair laws against them."
If you think huge parades of disgusting perverts prancing around trying to be as shocking and lewd as possible has the slightest connection to these alleged laws, I have a health care plan for you...

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (zfY+H)

441 428 My .02 on the "born with it" thing is both. I knew the little boy I used to babysit would be gay since he was a toddler. Now he's an adult, and yes, is gay. However, some people's sexual attraction is the result of their life experiences. At the end of the day, does it really matter? --- That's what my next wager is intended to find out!

Posted by: Randolph Duke at February 14, 2014 12:45 PM (/Crba)

442 I ran into Mutombo in the Atlanta airport last year. Holy shit he is one enormous human.

Nice guy too. Stopped about every five feet to greet everyone who wanted to say hi.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 04:42 PM (g1DWB)

______________

Not in my house..... No no no no.....

Posted by: Dikembe Mutumbo at February 14, 2014 12:45 PM (jucos)

443 I suspect insanity is a given when dealing with the human mind.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 04:43 PM (bb5+k)

If you meet someone directly in the center of "Normal," run.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:45 PM (x3YFz)

444 Human sexuality is always tied in with disgust. It's why it's called "talking dirty". Our brains are designed to find human excretions gross. We evolved that as a way to avoid disease. But to procreate we have to exchange excretions. So the I'm Horny neural circuitry actively dampens the Avoid Gross Bodily Excretions circuitry. Sometimes the wires get crossed. Which is how people end up peeing on each other. Or worse. But feelings of Disgust and Ew, Gross will always be right next Sexy Times feelings. Cause that's how the human brain is built.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:45 PM (ZPrif)

445 If homosexuality is genetic how are Christian Scientists able to turn gay people straight, even get them to marry for a short period of time?

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:46 PM (38LLM)

446 "Because marching for civil rights is the same as guys in leather gyrating on a float." If you're going to unfairly generalize that this tiny % of gays represents gay culture, then you can't complain when secular liberals think Westboro represents rightwing Christians, or that gun owners and Tea Party members are deranged anti-gov loons.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:46 PM (BOBhx)

447 Ezera Tuaolo played for the Chicago Bears. He is openly gay but I don't know if he came out before or after he retired

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at February 14, 2014 12:46 PM (z+4T3)

448 What kind of life are you condemning them to?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 04:43 PM (T0NGe)

You should have been a lawyer.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:46 PM (QFxY5)

449 The gay:black thing has some use but as an analogy I think it's limited People'll probably always be put off by homosexuality to some degree, especially guys. Even if that might not mean anything.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:47 PM (vd6Gd)

450 "Human sexuality is always tied in with disgust. It's why it's called "talking dirty"."
I disagree. There's nothing innately disgusting about sexual acts per se, only some of them. At least that's how its always been for me.
Talking dirty was about it being naughty, not disgusting.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:47 PM (zfY+H)

451 Gay people have to do this because society tries to place unfair laws against them *** Homosexuality is an action, race is basically a proxy for the amount of melanin in one's skin. These two things are in no way equivalent in any consideration of law or ethics. I don't believe the homosexuality should be criminalized, but somehow now we are rapidly advancing in the direction of criminalizing opposition to the normalization of homosexuality. Prior to the triumph of the new left it was possible for society to oppose something without banning it legally...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:47 PM (M3hAT)

452 Why would a straight boy molested by a man be inclined to become gay? I don't understand that.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 12:47 PM (S1ANu)

453 "If you're going to unfairly generalize that this tiny % of gays represents gay culture"
Talking about "gay pride" parades in the context of "gay pride" parades is hardly generalizing about a tiny portion of a group.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:48 PM (zfY+H)

454 But if a pedophile is born that way, what can they do? What kind of life are you condemning them to? Posted by: AmishDude

--------------

Goddamn, but you social cons sure do have a fucking obsession with specious universality.

There are people born with a proclivity to torture and murder people. We do not let them do that. Try real, real hard to figure out why that might be. Go ahead. Pray for some guidance to work that poser out in your head.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:48 PM (celt+)

455 446 If homosexuality is genetic how are Christian Scientists able to turn gay people straight, even get them to marry for a short period of time?

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 04:46 PM (38LLM)

**walks up to Dr Spank**

You see that?

It's a rabbit hole.

Choose wisely.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:48 PM (x3YFz)

456 447 some tea parties are Cassandras. Westboro Baptist church tho represents nothing in comparison to other stereotypes. It's just one weird family.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:48 PM (vd6Gd)

457 447 "Because marching for civil rights is the same as guys in leather gyrating on a float."

If you're going to unfairly generalize that this tiny % of gays represents gay culture, then you can't complain when secular liberals think Westboro represents rightwing Christians, or that gun owners and Tea Party members are deranged anti-gov loons. Posted by: Roadrunner

Mostly agree but would point out that when given serious political clout in San Francisco the place seems to be a bit of a freak show.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (38LLM)

458 "For football teams, it's about what is best for your team, not doing social work." Posted by: Adjoran at February 14, 2014 04:04 PM (QIQ6j) Uhh, if only that were currently true. The entire month of October is a pink flurry of shoes, towels, and decorated helmets. Now that the gay mafia has a newly annointed spokesmodel to be embedded in the NFL, watch for November to have the rainbows a'flyin. Free tickets for all registered members of GLAAD. Uniforms uniquely designed by gay designers(yes, I know that' s redundant) featuring rhinestones and feathers.

Posted by: Jen at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (o985y)

459 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 04:45 PM (ZPrif)

So....because I won't cross the street to pee on Harry Reid even if he were on fire, does that mean I have a highly evolved neural circuitry for sanitation?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (QFxY5)

460 I believe young greek noble men were encouraged to show affection and have sex with young boys. I don't believe it was acceptable for everyone in greek society and it was something they were expected to grow out of. I always thought it was a way to have sex and no issue before marriage.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (rfCrI)

461 "Why would a straight boy molested by a man be inclined to become gay? I don't understand that"
Since it happens, I can only speculate that it has to do with why girls who are molested as children often turn out to be either extremely frigid or total skanks.
Their minds and bodies aren't ready for that kind of thing and it messes you up for life.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (zfY+H)

462 25% of all gay men have aids. Sports players bleed once in a while. Not so different from the non-gay Majik basketball player who had aids and decided (or was asked) to stop playing. Maybe he's clean now (or maybe not, who knows), but is he going to have a pregame test every time?

Posted by: P Mike at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (6P+gF)

463 Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 04:43 PM (T0NGe)

Hey, AD, since you're here: apologies for last night.

I shouldn't have said what I said or the way I said it.

T9

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (x3YFz)

464 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:48 PM (celt+)

Feel that tugging? That's your chain being yanked.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (QFxY5)

465 BTW, some of you guys need to get a clue that not all gay men are effeminate. Ever heard of bears?

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (S1ANu)

466

431 -

I really like this line of thinking. I was born with a preference for super hot, statuesque brunette wimmins.

I think society should stop getting in the way of me satisfying my urges.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (TOk1P)

467 453 why do abused people sometimes become abusers? Not saying I buy that theory BTW. Just that psychology is weird.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (vd6Gd)

468 Ace, I agree with pretty much your whole essay. I agree that it doesn't make any difference in my life how other people live their lives, so if other people are gay it doesn't matter to me.

I consider myself a "minarchist libertarian" and from what I can tell, you are also one. We want the government to be small and only do the things government needs to do, and otherwise leave people alone to live their lives. I agree 100% that gay people should be left alone, but small business owners should also be left alone.

As for the lying... in chess, they talk about a "fork", and that's the perfect term to describe the situation Michael Sam is in. If he tells us he is gay, people can slam him for being in our faces about it; if he lies about it now, people can slam him for lying. He might as well tell us.

I heard speculation on the radio that he announced it because he figured it was going to be revealed one way or the other, and it would be better for him to just bring it up and get it over with than for it to come out as a big surprise later.

Rush Limbaugh commented that Michael Sam will now be less attractive in the draft, not because he's gay but because he's in the news. According to Rush, anyone who is in the news is less attractive for the team owners; they want a well-knit team, and team members who are famous and in the news may not knit in with the others as well. I believe Rush said that Tim Tebow is less in demand for this same reason of being famous.

Posted by: mr_jack at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (TMG3G)

469 Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:29 PM (BOBhx) If all they wanted was for the government to keep its nose out of the bedroom, no problem, I'm in complete agreement But that's not what they want. They want the government to force everyone else to watch them in the bedroom and applaud like the Politiburo did for Stalin or else face complete ruin and possibly prison time

Posted by: kbdabear at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (aTXUx)

470 I think he came out cause he had to yesterday photos surfaced of him dancing shirtless at a gay bar in MO last year out yourself or be outed

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 12:50 PM (zOTsN)

471 If a baker doesn't want to bake a cake for your wedding, you could just cuss him/her out and badmouth him/her. Then look for another baker who actually wants the job. They are not hard to find. This is why so many of us have a problem with the movement. Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 04:22 PM (r+7wo) When I was young, they MADE ME go to church. I didn't much care for it and stopped going when I got older, but I remember some of it. I remember two examples in the old Testament. 1. The Attempt by the men of Sodom to rape the Angels. 2. The Attempt by the men of the City of Benjamin to rape the traveler. In both cases, the Homosexuals dominant in that community thought it was perfectly reasonable to force participation in their sexual acts. I think much of the bible is probably accurate as to history, and I think these two examples provide insight into the mindset of a homosexually dominant society. Oh, in the first case God destroyed the city with fire and brimstone, and in the Second, all the other tribes of Israel gathered together and wiped out the city of Benjamin.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:51 PM (bb5+k)

472 I'll just put it this way. I work in a wretchedly leftist university, and I hear talking-heads parrot all day long the same absurd generalizations about "evil" republicans and tea party members. These people confidently assert that all opposition to Obama is because of racism, and all republicans are just closet racist who hate the government and want anarchy. These beliefs are obviously absurd, but people believe them because they are cocooned from interacting with republicans, and their only image of republicans is what the media presents them with. The same is true of you guys with gays. If you really think the typical gay is some bondage freak who dances naked in public marches, you are crazy. You have cocooned yourself, and you don't even know what you are talking about because your only image of it is what is seen on tv or the internet in its most sensationalized and crazy form.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:51 PM (BOBhx)

473 I'm really sick of Ace feeling like he needs to lecture us conservatives every week or so about how we need to shed our values and get with the times.

If I wanted to be sneered at and condescended to, I could watch MSNBC.

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at February 14, 2014 12:51 PM (ZMzpb)

474

463 -

That is complete and utter nonsense. I don't know where you pulled that 25% number from (and I don't want to know!), but it certainly isn't based on anything remotely resembling reality.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:52 PM (TOk1P)

475
3. When you talk about your girlfriend, you are not rubbing sex in anyone's face. <<<<<<<<

Totally untrue. I am rubbing my sex in her face.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 14, 2014 12:52 PM (n0DEs)

476 Comparing gays to pedophiles is like comparing gun owners to the freaks who shoot up public schools and theaters. --------------------- As an aside. I weary of the use of the term 'pedophile' when applied to homosexual predators. It is purposeful deflection to imply that, well, this is a person who perversely likes young children, and who might well be an abuser of little girls. That isn't the case, and more specifically, it has not been the case with the various Catholic Priests. To the best of my knowledge, they all engaged post-pubescent boys, which is to say that they were not pedophilic acts. They are/were all homosexual predators. Why is that so difficult to acknowledge when it is a simple fact? GLAAD was *very* quick to inform all of the major news outlets that all references to the Priest(s) should be as 'pedophiles', rather than 'homosexuals', because..., why? Well, because it is deflection from what they actually are/were, homosexual predators. It implies that they have acted no differently than any pedophile, whether heterosexual or homosexual. The point being that what is wrong with them is that they are 'pedophiles' (they are not) rather homosexuals preying on young boys.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 12:52 PM (aDwsi)

477 Roadrunner, who the fuck are you talking to? Is there some mythical icky socon in your head?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:52 PM (ZPrif)

478 "But that's not what they want. They want the government to force everyone else to watch them in the bedroom and applaud like the Politiburo did for Stalin or else face complete ruin and possibly prison time " I've been personally friends with multiple gay people, several of them politically conservative, and what you are saying could not be further from the truth. This sounds like something Martin Bashir would say about gun owners.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:52 PM (BOBhx)

479 458-Tiny minority? The pride parades are the same in every city. If all tea party members acted like anti-gov loons, one could draw that conclusion. The center of gay culture is San Francisco-ever watch the zombietime videos for what happens there?

Posted by: ejo at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (GXvSO)

480 361 >> And the rather salient difference that a child cannot give consent.

That's a strictly legal concept. As a matter of fact, judges frequently take into account whether there was consent or not when passing sentence on adults having had sex with a minor.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (cHZB7)

481 I really like this line of thinking. I was born with a preference for super hot, statuesque brunette wimmins.

I think society should stop getting in the way of me satisfying my urges.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 04:50 PM (TOk1P)

/long parental type stare

Ruck up, cupcake. We'll march that out of you.

Nono... not the M4. The M240. 10 miles. Let's go.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (x3YFz)

482 Posted by: Roadrunner

You need to leave your leftist university because you've obviously become infected.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (38LLM)

483

I don't think the primary reason he announced it was to avoid lying about his sexual preferences in the future, I think he did it for attention and the hope that the notoriety would earn him more money. He could have announced years ago or after he was drafted - but, he seems to have timed the announcement to coincide with the NFL draft. He is an entertainer after all and in the biz public attention often = money.

If I am correct, then he is a sleazy opportunist and the fact that an announcement of his sexual preferences could make him more money says terrible things about our country. Question, should all people who prefer anal make more money, or just people in to same sex anal?

Posted by: Brian at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (Hd5n8)

484 "But that's not what they want. They want the government to force everyone else to watch them in the bedroom and applaud like the Politiburo did for Stalin or else face complete ruin and possibly prison time "
That's the problem here. In terms of law and culture, I'm fine with people doing in private what they choose to, if they keep it to themselves.
But its gone beyond that, to the point that acceptance and even support is being demanded, with legal consequences if you do not.
And for some strange reason, conservatives have a problem with that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:53 PM (zfY+H)

485 I have a dream. I have a dream that one day, the alliance of libertarians, fiscal conservatives, constitutionalists and social conservatives will utterly defeat and destroy the forces of leftism and the Democratic party. And on that glorious day, we can split into two different parties and I can finally cut loose from these Jeebus-screaming Church Ladies.

And I hope they feel the same about me.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (celt+)

486

455 -

More stupidity.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (TOk1P)

487 If homosexuality is genetic

The discussion about aborting children with genetic disorders is going to get a whole lot more interesting.

Or they'll go back to claiming it's a lifestyle choice.

Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (ZKzrr)

488 You're right. You should have told MLK to just shut up and stop drawing attention to Black people with his complaints about racism. The best way to deal with oppression is to be quiet and submissive! Gays make 20%(!) more than the general population. Now that's some oppression I want to be a part of.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (T0NGe)

489 Seems like most people here are agreeing with Ace. Not seeing many "icky gay-bashing socons" that need to be purged.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (ZPrif)

490 274 Comparing gays to pedophiles is like comparing gun owners to the freaks who shoot up public schools and theaters. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:23 PM (BOBhx) And this just demonstrates you have little knowledge of Homosexuals and Pedophiles. Yes, it's an icky subject, but I suggest you read up on it starting with the missing child incidence in San Francisco. Cory Feldwood and Cory Heim can tell you something about it in Hollywood. http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles /1020901/corey-feldman-details-sickening- hollywood-sexual-abuse

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:55 PM (bb5+k)

491 Taro, why the needless dickery? Are you ok?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 12:55 PM (ZPrif)

492

We talk about this all day, I'm sure. But however we look at this, it comes down to one thing. There's an agenda to all of this. And it's mostly the marxist MFM (sports networks included) that are driving this.

It's nothing but the marxists destroying, or, at least degrading to the point of irrelavence, another truly American tradition.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 12:55 PM (nFviW)

493 I guarantee that if a test is developed to determine whether a child will be gay, while in the womb, liberals will be aborting them at record rates.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 12:56 PM (38LLM)

494 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:51 PM (BOBhx)

Go grab a pillow to cry into

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 12:56 PM (FE/sZ)

495 If you really think the typical gay is some bondage freak who dances naked in public marches, you are crazy. *** Can you show me the homosexual groups that that are fighting Obama and his minions to protect Christians from being forced to service gay marriages? The central problem isn't the percentage of homosexuals who've gone full Folsom, it is the percentage that have gone full Leftist. What you want to do in your bedroom is your business - but the gay political movement currently exists as nothing more then a hammer for the Left as a whole to go after its opponents. And there is very little opposition to the gay political movement from homosexuals...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 12:56 PM (M3hAT)

496 Some topics bring out the social conservative hate that seethes barely beneath the surface in a few people. Its like a scream waiting to happen and when the opportunity arrives, out it comes.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:56 PM (zfY+H)

497 Go to any significant museum with a good collection of Ancient Greek vases and you will see that homosexuality was not shunned or minimized. If you paint it on a vase, presumably for sale, then it is at least in the neighborhood of mainstream. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 04:29 PM (QFxY5) So it was not shunned in the Greek artist community?! Why, I'm shocked!

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 14, 2014 12:56 PM (bCEmE)

498

482 -

10 miles? That's nothing. Used to do more than that, almost literally, in my sleep. Carrying the SAW, along with a drum or two of ammo... and often an ammo belt or two for the M60.

Well, I was a bit younger then, but hey, it's like riding a bicycle..... right?

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 12:57 PM (TOk1P)

499 I know you guys think that shrugging shoulders at homosexuality is opening the floodgates to bestiality and Satanic ritual orgies being forced upon Baptist Sunday Schools, but it's not. Seriously. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:25 PM (celt+) Where can I send the links I have compiled which demonstrate you to be wrong? Obviously you do not keep current on this issue.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:58 PM (bb5+k)

500 Try real, real hard to figure out why that might be. Go ahead. Pray for some guidance to work that poser out in your head.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:48 PM (celt+)

Attacking people that have faith just because you don't have any isn't going to do anything constructive.

You can't mock a group for their beliefs with an argument that they mock others. It's not logical, and it's not what a man of character does.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 12:58 PM (x3YFz)

501 "Well, I was a bit younger then, but hey, it's like riding a bicycle..... right? "
Keep telling yourself that when you're doubled up puking on the side of the road with your legs screaming in pain.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 12:59 PM (zfY+H)

502 I'll be glad if you can point me to a sustainable and moral centrally-planned society where government needs to protect consenting adults from doing "naughty things". Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:25 PM (BOBhx) You Libertarians still screaming your version of "RACISM!!!!" How about you point out to me a Libertarian society in History? I can do so. It didn't end well either.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:59 PM (bb5+k)

503 So it was not shunned in the Greek artist community?! ___ That's right wingnuts, in 1000 years people will think I'm a perfectly good example of modern Westerners.

Posted by: Morissey at February 14, 2014 12:59 PM (M3hAT)

504 Some topics bring out the social conservative hate that seethes barely beneath the surface in a few people. --------------------- Please. Quote a few lines of 'hate'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 12:59 PM (aDwsi)

505 Not much from Bradley Manning these days. Are they letting him wear a bra?

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 14, 2014 12:59 PM (rfCrI)

506 486 the problem with this dream is libertarians are stupid and a minority for a reason. At least liberalism has some vision of the common good, not just solipsism.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:00 PM (vd6Gd)

507 Posted by: Tami at February 14, 2014 04:56 PM (bCEmE)

Look, that's not what I meant, and stop twisting my words so that....

Oh, never mind.

Well done!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 01:00 PM (QFxY5)

508 >>>How about you point out to me a Libertarian society in History? in victorian england, prostitution, drugs, and carrying a firearm were all permitted. It was simultaneously a moral society.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 01:00 PM (/FnUH)

509 seriously he is about to be drafted I bet whoever took that photo of him dancing shirtless at the MO gay bar told him he was gonna sell it or something so he outed himself

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:01 PM (zOTsN)

510 lol there have been plenty of successful civilizations thatve done things we'd consider repressive, wtf

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:01 PM (vd6Gd)

511 When I began reading this, I though Ace was going to come out of the closet.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 14, 2014 01:02 PM (rfCrI)

512 in victorian england, prostitution, drugs, and carrying a firearm were all permitted. It was simultaneously a moral society. *** The ability for society to frown on something while not banning it is something we lost with the rise of the modern left. Now things are more and more required or banned...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 01:02 PM (M3hAT)

513 497 Some topics bring out the social conservative hate that seethes barely beneath the surface in a few people. Its like a scream waiting to happen and when the opportunity arrives, out it comes.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 04:56 PM (zfY+H)

Perhaps.

It's also an opportunity for some of us that have manged to scrabble up a tiny bit of wisdom over the decades to pass on the idea that we're all in this together, none of us make it out alive, and being nice is always the first option.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:02 PM (x3YFz)

514 Yup; gay people are just adults who want the government to keep its nose out of their bedroom. You would think small-government conservatives would see the connection. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:29 PM (BOBhx) Till they show up at the health clinic wanting their shots of penicillin and their cipro tablets.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:03 PM (bb5+k)

515

502 -

Oh, I don't expect my knees would let me get far enough to tire myself out.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 01:03 PM (TOk1P)

516 there have been plenty of successful civilizations thatve done things we'd consider repressive, wtf ___ Partial birth abortions? Fuck you guys even we wouldn't do that.

Posted by: The Phoenicians at February 14, 2014 01:03 PM (M3hAT)

517 The United States: not a world power in the 50s

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:03 PM (vd6Gd)

518 "You Libertarians still screaming your version of "RACISM!!!!" How about you point out to me a Libertarian society in History? " I'm not a "Libertarian", I vote for Republicans. There aren't any "libertarian" societies because the default for so long has been statism, and we've only just begun to come out of it. You might as well sneer at someone during the dark ages and say "where is your science, how useful it is? why aren't there any scientists?", as if somehow that discredits science.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:04 PM (BOBhx)

519 "in victorian england, prostitution, drugs, and carrying a firearm were all permitted. It was simultaneously a moral society." Because women were moral. I originally was going to joke about this, but thinking about it for 30 seconds, I really do think it's the deciding factor. Of course, then there's Islam so who knows? Probably needs more than 30 seconds of thought.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 01:04 PM (jOumW)

520 Re: the Victorians as both libertarian and moral: the UK (and with it the British Empire) getting into WWI led to more bad consequences than any other single decision in history. And for what? For BELGIUM?!

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:04 PM (4Eaz/)

521
Oh, I don't expect my knees would let me get far enough to tire myself out.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 05:03 PM (TOk1P)

Excuses are like...!

I know. Shit, I can barely drive 10 miles without a nap. Get in the back, we'll hit Taco Bell on the way in.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:05 PM (x3YFz)

522 except when you compare the ghey harvey milk to a pedaphile, because he actually was....... Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 13 days (1wk 6days) until spring training at February 14, 2014 04:31 PM (u8GsB) I think they all are. Any one having intercourse with 10 people in a day, isn't very likely to be picky about age.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:05 PM (bb5+k)

523 Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:00 PM (/FnUH)

A disingenuous argument, because both drugs and prostitution were not discussed in polite society, and were savagely repressed in public.

Although, the end result was relatively free access, but certainly not social approbation, so in a way.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 01:05 PM (QFxY5)

524 Victorian England also had a shared Christianity, sharply reduced legal rights for women, and was proudly racist. A strong shared culture and moral outlook in a society allows many things to be policed by social mores rather than legal ones.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 01:05 PM (ZPrif)

525 Conservatism has only ever been about small govt as it relates to economic policy, whatever you think of that. govt size is a misnomer anyway. The real debate's about its necessary functions.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:05 PM (vd6Gd)

526 Well we just had the gayest Super Bowl of all time so his timing is perfect.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at February 14, 2014 01:06 PM (dvRYt)

527 >>> Because women were moral. I originally was going to joke about this, but thinking about it for 30 seconds, I really do think it's the deciding factor. we will at some point have to have a discussion about from whence morality arises, and if it is better that it be encouraged, and arise from within, or be compelled from without.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 01:06 PM (/FnUH)

528 " I'm really sick of Ace feeling like he needs to lecture us conservatives every week or so about how we need to shed our values and get with the times." I'm really sick of losing fucking elections because socons open their mouth when the election should be focused on fiscal issues that actually have a chance of winning.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:06 PM (BOBhx)

529 But that's not what they want. They want the government to force everyone else to watch them in the bedroom and applaud like the Politiburo did for Stalin or else face complete ruin and possibly prison time " I've been personally friends with multiple gay people, several of them politically conservative, and what you are saying could not be further from the truth. This sounds like something Martin Bashir would say about gun owners. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:52 PM (BOBhx) Then like conservatives do, they ought to smack down the gay mafia for misrepresenting them on a daily basis. I've had two gay hair stylists who talked of nothing but partying, drinking, dancing, and hooking up at every appointment. I had a lesbian health care provider who made a point of hanging rainbows in her windows of her office, and dressed in the most mannish uniform you could imagine...I thought she was a he the first time I went to the office. I had the misfortune to work with a lesbian coworker, who from the day she was hired spoke of nothing but her sex life to the point that we filed a complaint with management-she ended up quitting and we all waited for the lawsuit. I don't care about someone's sexual proclivities as long as they keep it to themselves. But I have YET to meet a homosexual who doesn't spend 90% of their time talking and acting out their sexual fantasies, desires, and activities in front of others. It's part of the screwed up chemistry they have. For those who have found peace with being homosexual and have replaced the constant obsessive complusive behavior with productive activities, I applaud them. In my experience, they are rare.

Posted by: Jen at February 14, 2014 01:07 PM (o985y)

530 "A disingenuous argument, because both drugs and prostitution were not discussed in polite society, and were savagely repressed in public."
And not technically legal, either, just ignored like illegal immigration today.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:07 PM (zfY+H)

531 519 wtf are you talking about? Recent weed laws are an "anti-statist" revolution or something?

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:07 PM (vd6Gd)

532 411 Hey Taro, does this work the same way if we
substitute "drunk" for stoned? Yes? Glad to see at least you're a
consistent drug warrior. Good to know.

Posted by: SFGoth

-----------------

Yes, it does. Any other questions?

I've got one for you - alcohol is a demonstrably deadly, family-destroying drug. Far worse than pot by several orders of magnitude. It is legal and pot is not. Do you likewise support consistent laws between the two?
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto

LOL, Taro, I'm not familiar with your name so perhaps you're new here. If so, Irashaimasu!!! Then, you should probably know that most morons consider me to be the resident stoner here. I think we indulge alcohol consumption too much and without strong enough penalties.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 01:07 PM (S1ANu)

533 "we will at some point have to have a discussion about from whence morality arises, and if it is better that it be encouraged, and arise from within, or be compelled from without." The paternalists want to stimulate morality from without by banning anything from violent video games to butt secks. I've had enough with paternalism.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:08 PM (BOBhx)

534 "...arise from within, or be compelled from without."

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:06 PM (/FnUH)

First we will need to define "morality," because I don't think that it can be compelled.

Perhaps moral behavior can, but that is different.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 01:08 PM (QFxY5)

535 I'm sorry but I've been friends with gay conservatives and what you are saying is absurd. There's no comparison between gays and Islam. This sounds like the liberal pundits who compare gun rights advocates to anti-gov timothy mcveigh terrorists. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:31 PM (BOBhx) And yet demands for obedience to the gay agenda just keeps advancing incrementally, And with the force of the government behind it too!

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:08 PM (bb5+k)

536 arise from within, or be compelled from without.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:06 PM (/FnUH)

Yeah.... interesting discussion. I'm certain a thesis or dissertation or 20 lie in there somewhere.

Nothing like tackling the largest human question, though right?

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:08 PM (x3YFz)

537 "Victorian England also had a shared Christianity, sharply reduced legal rights for women, and was proudly racist." Indeed: it was very far from perfect. It was, however, despite its flaws, both the freest and most prosperous society in the history of the world up to that point, and the two were certainly related.

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:09 PM (4Eaz/)

538 Of course, any Libertarian types that want to purge the icky so-cons, policing the comments section here isn't very ambitious. Try purging over at Red State, lot more icky so-cons to purge there. I'm gonna go bravely defend atheism over at Reddit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (ZPrif)

539 I have a theory, that's supported by personal observation, that if you start out fiscally conservative but socially leftist (Libertarians, in an oversimplification) you eventually end up fiscally liberal. The cultural leads to and informs the fiscal.
However, those who start out socially conservative too often are also fiscally leftist; they have social norms they want enforced by law, and that ends up being tyranny and destroys America just as much as the other.
Both sides have to be there, or you fall off one side of the horse or the other, to mix metaphors. Its a blending of a single consistent philosophy on all topics rather than picking and choosing what makes you feel better or what you'd like to see, no matter what it takes.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (zfY+H)

540 Look, none of us are naifs. We all know the basics of what gay people do as far as sex. Why this pretending that if a gay guy says he's gay it's only then that we suddenly realize that gay sex involves gay sex? Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:32 PM (/FnUH) I don't think you do. Read up on the San Fransisco bath houses. I think you may very well be surprised about what the typical "Gay" person does regarding sex. Sexual partners numbering in the thousands is not rare in this group.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (bb5+k)

541 529 yeah the American public is all about the Ryan Medicare plan. Fiscal issues FTW

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (vd6Gd)

542
And for what? For BELGIUM?! <<<<<<

Who's being naive now Kay?

Posted by: Worldwide Coreleone Bankers and Trust at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (n0DEs)

543 I don't care about someone's sexual proclivities as long as they keep it to themselves. But I have YET to meet a homosexual who doesn't spend 90% of their time talking and acting out their sexual fantasies, desires, and activities in front of others. It's part of the screwed up chemistry they have. For those who have found peace with being homosexual and have replaced the constant obsessive complusive behavior with productive activities, I applaud them. In my experience, they are rare. Posted by: Jen at February 14, 2014 05:07 PM (o985y) this is true in part. SIL is a bi sexual, polyamorous, vegan anarchist and lord does she love to tell anyone and everyone all about it all. the. time.

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (zOTsN)

544 No, Taro, alcohol is not order of magnitude worse than pot. Comparing raw #s is retarded. You have to look at rates of abuse per user.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (ZPrif)

545 Look up "Felching." Tell me if you expected that.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (bb5+k)

546 we will at some point have to have a discussion about from whence morality arises, and if it is better that it be encouraged, and arise from within, or be compelled from without. *** The concern here is that the left has built its own moral structure, originally based on Christianity but more and more structured on the divinity of its own political movement. Those who have a problem with Christianity as a political force (and I'm not pointing to you here Ace) should consider that there will be a choice as to what informs the moral compass of society. A society can choose various flavors of Christianity, or Islam, or the Holy State of Liberalism. But it will choose one of them and if you have any understanding of political history it is clear which one a libertarian should want...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (M3hAT)

547 I would like, to the extent possible, to have an arrangement in which the most people possible are as free as possible to do what they think is right without coming to social -- or legal -- grief over it.-ACE Unfortunately, it won't be that way. It will be shoved down my throat. SoCon, ConChristian here. Libertarian, if you allow me to live my life I'll let you live yours. I don't see Ace's perfect scenario working out.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 01:11 PM (HVff2)

548

534 -

You sound like a petulant teenager. Perhaps you should have this discussion with your actual, you know, father.

It might do you some good, and it would spare us your silly arguments.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 01:12 PM (TOk1P)

549 534 suburban moms worrying about their kids playing too much GTA omg what fascists

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:12 PM (vd6Gd)

550 546 Look up "Felching." Tell me if you expected that. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 05:11 PM (bb5+k) Rule #1, Rule #1! No, no, no, no! Will NOT! And especially NO on this topic.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 14, 2014 01:12 PM (bCEmE)

551 546 Look up "Felching."

Tell me if you expected that.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 05:11 PM (bb5+k)

No.
Fn.
Way I google that.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (x3YFz)

552 Until there is a "three-point conversion" with the QB ass fucking the center, there is no reason to know the sexual orientation of any NFL player

Posted by: Ultra Man at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (e8kgV)

553 >>>Indeed: it was very far from perfect. It was, however, despite its flaws, both the freest and most prosperous society in the history of the world up to that point, and the two were certainly related. it was also quite Christian and in addition, very charitable. The Victorians did a lot of private charity, of a sort which is highly advisable but now illegal: They would fund homes for the striving poor, but impose moral strictures on them for continued right to live there. (Like, no prostitution, obviously, no alcoholism, etc. Church might have been necessary, too.) They thus handled the problem of the poor themselves, taking charge of it in terms of both paying for it and also adding the moral guidance they believed necessary. I do not believe that a "Libertarian" society is incompatible with morality. Indeed, I tend to think that freedom, respect, autonomy, and morality travel together, like a pack of virtuous wolves.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (/FnUH)

554 "if it is better that it be encouraged, and arise from within, or be compelled from without" I would say the former, by far. However, these days we seem to be compelling immoral behavior. It is odd though, isn't it? No parent, no matter how liberal (ok, maybe the 1% crazy liberals) encourage their children to be "immoral". We all tell our kids to roughly keep the 10 commandments, even if we're secular. However the left then turns around and pushes these very vices on society in general, but then acts shocked when their kids take that message instead of the one that they're taught at home.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (jOumW)

555 Morality, defined as a shared sense of right and wrong a culture develops, can be enforced from the outside. It happens in every culture, from the beginning of civilization. We're seeing it right now with political correctness, and we did in the past when Father Knows Best was on TV. You can make people behave in a certain way, even repeat the correct lines and affirm that as right, in public and as a culture through pressure such as shame, laws, and so on.
But you can't make people good. You can't make people ETHICAL (an absolute standard of right and wrong that is objective and external). People can only be made right inside from inside.
You can get people to say they support slavery, or women's rights, or homosexual marriage, or wheelchair ramps, or gassing Jews - or whatever example you choose for good or ill - as a culture through pressure, education, laws, and so on. But you can't MAKE them actually good on the inside.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:14 PM (zfY+H)

556 Libertarianism isn't incompatible with morality, except in the modern world.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:14 PM (vd6Gd)

557 Is there good data on gay male promiscuity? My anecdotal data is that it's much higher, but I haven't seen good data. The few gay dudes I've known well were all at above the promiscuity level of the most horndog straight dudes I knew. Meanwhile the few lesbians I've known well were less promiscuous than the avg straight chick. But perhaps my samples were skewed.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 01:14 PM (ZPrif)

558 530
But I have YET to meet a homosexual who doesn't spend 90% of their time talking and acting out their sexual fantasies, desires, and activities in front of others.
Posted by: Jen

Yes you have Jen. They just didn't tell you and you don't have the secret gay detector decoder ring. It's like saying "I've never met a competent, fully-employed, functional person who uses cannabis!" With an attitude like that, is it any wonder that the people you know who are competent, fully-employed, and functional hide it from you?

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 01:15 PM (S1ANu)

559 First we will need to define "morality," because I don't think that it can be compelled.

Perhaps moral behavior can, but that is different.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 05:08 PM (QFxY5)

--------------------------------------

My definition of morality? Taking total responsibility for all of one's actions, speech, and decisions.

No welfare.

No "free" healthcare.

No special treatment.

Posted by: Soona at February 14, 2014 01:15 PM (nFviW)

560 I've had enough with paternalism.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:08 PM (BOBhx)

You prefer unguided "teenagerism" as the alternative?

*ring*
*ring*

one sec.. it's Natural Selection.

Hello?
Yeah.
I know.
Bye.

yer fucked.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:15 PM (x3YFz)

561 >>And yet demands for obedience to the gay agenda just keeps advancing incrementally, And with the force of the government behind it too! If you could would you demand obedience to your version of a conservative agenda with government force behind it? I mean you already demand obedience to your conservative agenda you just don't have the government backup. I don't think that makes you a Muslim.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 01:15 PM (g1DWB)

562 >>>I'm really sick of losing fucking elections because socons open their mouth when the election should be focused on fiscal issues that actually have a chance of winning.

Socons, on the other hand, are sick of winning elections and then seeing their policy prferences ingnored. Hmm... That whole thing where they get the same results whether they win or lose... Do you suppose that might have something to do with how they will sometimes just sit out an election?

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 14, 2014 01:16 PM (IN7k+)

563 558 pretty sure dudes tend more toward "open" setups but D Lamp is using dated 70s pre-AIDS data

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:16 PM (vd6Gd)

564 No. Fn. Way I google that. Posted by: tangonine ----------------- Good instincts.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 01:16 PM (aDwsi)

565 "I've never met a competent, fully-employed, functional person who uses cannabis!" ___ You know I didn't read my autobiography but I thought you wingnuts did.

Posted by: President Choom at February 14, 2014 01:16 PM (M3hAT)

566 Goddamn, but you social cons sure do have a fucking obsession with specious universality. I wouldn't call myself a social con, but I hate stupid "logic". However, if you believe that sexuality is innate and, in parallel, that this causes deep divisions between people so that they can be placed in well-defined boxes, then you have a problem with the pedophiles, don't you? There are people born with a proclivity to torture and murder people. They're called people. I know that you seem to see yourself as a "good person" and the people who do things you don't like are "bad people" (or just "others" in the case of homosexuals) but life isn't quite that way.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:17 PM (T0NGe)

567 Prior Topic correction for atc

the minor fact that batteries discharge faster when it's cold out.

It's actually exactly opposite. The chemical reaction doesn't work when they're cold so they can't generate any power.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at February 14, 2014 01:17 PM (DL2i+)

568

546 -

You've been around here long enough to know this site is not full of a bunch of shrinking violets. People who don't know precisely what the term means can guess accurately enough.

Gays have a lot of gay sex. Yeah, we get it. And what goes where??? Yes, they get creative about it. I don't think anybody hanging around this thread is going to be quite as shocked as you think they will.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 01:17 PM (TOk1P)

569 Yes you have Jen. They just didn't tell you and you don't have the secret gay detector decoder ring. I dunno about that the same bi sexual, poly amorous vegan anarchist SIL thinks everybody is gay her "gaydar" includes everybody

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:17 PM (zOTsN)

570 All of the "tolerate homosexuality and you have to tolerate bestiality and pedophilia" arguments fall apart because children and animals can't consent. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:34 PM (celt+) Prior to the relaxation of the laws, Homosexuals couldn't give consent either. So your argument that "The Law of Consent" is pertinent, is just nonsense. As for animals giving consent, they damn well can. It's my understanding that the Netherlands still produces porn in which Male Animals demonstrate quite a lot of consent. Now if you are arguing "Legal Consent", I direct you back to that fact that neither could homosexuals back in the 1950s. It was against the law, period. Please stop with the bogus "Consent" argument. It is nonsensical and irrelevant to the history of what happened.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:17 PM (bb5+k)

571 You should have been a lawyer..... Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 04:46 PM (QFxY5) I think it's why I dislike them so much. I see through their tricks and I'm not impressed.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (T0NGe)

572 "Splendid isolation" had served Britain exceedingly well over the century since Waterloo. Sending a whole generation of its best into the meat-grinder and trillions in today's dollars with them is something from which they have STILL not recovered, and never conceivably can. The free Britain born in the English Civil War and the Glorious Revolution of 1688 DIED in the trenches.

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (4Eaz/)

573 >>>Those who have a problem with Christianity as a political force (and I'm not pointing to you here Ace) should consider that there will be a choice as to what informs the moral compass of society. i happen to believe that Christianity is a strongly pro-social, pro-progress, pro-rule-of-law, pro-freedom force that has tended to shape Christian societies in politically desirable ways. I scoff at those who call it a negative force. Compare Victorian England to... any one of a dozen hellholes. Compare it, if we wish to avoid the tricky question of ethnicity, to the bloodbath horrorshow of officially-dechristianized Revolutionary France. That said, I do not have to agree down to the letter of every single detail of what a particular expression of Christianity, at a particular point in history, says the law ought to be. Frankly I find all this endless chatter about homosexuality to be silly. Less than 5% of the population are gay. There is some fraction who could "Go either way," depending on moral suasion and social antipathy, but this is a fraction of that fraction; perhaps 1% are potential swingers who could go this way or the other depending on the social climate. To spend this much energy on this 1% of the population seems crazy to me.

Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (/FnUH)

574 I'm really sick of losing fucking elections because socons open their mouth when the election should be focused on fiscal issues that actually have a chance of winning. ___ That whole 47% thing that may have turned the election? My bad. Oh well I wasn't going to beat Obama anyway.

Posted by: Mittens Romney at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (M3hAT)

575 Way to jump into the conversation 4 1/2 days later, Ace.

Still, I'm glad you posted, and I'm pretty much in agreement with your take.

Posted by: logprof at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (X3GkB)

576 It does seem that homosexual women and men largely define themselves through their sexual preferences (at least in conversation and behavior) but I'm not sure that's necessarily part of their sexuality. It might be cultural or an angry reaction to the society around them, or some other force at work.
People are very strange and difficult to predict individually. Most of the time we don't even know why we do what we do. Almost no one lives an examined life.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (zfY+H)

577 My older relatives were on the tale end of that sort of charity. WW2 era Catholics. They all took in boarders -- often young men from broken families. The Church would arrange all this. It was basically foster care. But it was strict. My older relatives all talk about having strange kids being moved in with them for a some time period -- and often being kicked out if they screwed up. Which they did. None of the modern generation take in these sorts of kids. Though a couple did adopt Chinese babies. i think the State has pushed the Church out of that sort of informal foster care.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 01:18 PM (ZPrif)

578 Consent is a thin argument. Theres a lot of fucked up things you can consent to.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:19 PM (vd6Gd)

579 "Frankly I find all this endless chatter about homosexuality to be silly. Less than 5% of the population are gay. "
The conversation and energy isn't on homosexuals, its on the attempts to change culture and enforce a whole new morality on everyone else for that tiny percentage.
We aren't upset that people are homosexual any more than we are people are any other oddity. We're upset they're trying to replace the culture with one that they think will make them feel better about themselves.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:20 PM (zfY+H)

580 Hey, AD, since you're here: apologies for last night. I shouldn't have said what I said or the way I said it. T9 Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 04:50 PM (x3YFz) Well, thanks. Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe I left a thread? The Internet goes one ear and out the other for me. I sometimes forget that people take stuff personally. I don't at all. As for me, I apologize if I offended you in some way. If you feel I say something out of line, you shouldn't think you're hurting my feelings by saying so. You won't.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:21 PM (T0NGe)

581 There have been gay players probably since inception. Ah fuck it, I am coming out of the closet. Ace I like peanut butter I mean I REALLY like peanut butter.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 14, 2014 01:21 PM (TE35l)

582 >>Frankly I find all this endless chatter about homosexuality to be silly.

Put up a new thread!

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 01:21 PM (38LLM)

583

564 -

Yep. Much of it gleened no doubt, from the book "And the Band Played On," which I would highly recommend.

One of the things that happened with the onset of AIDS is that gay men started taking more responsibility. Oddly enough, because their lives depended on it!

These days, it's probably true to say on average, gay men are no more (or not much more) promisuous than heterosexuals of comparable ages and marital status.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 01:22 PM (TOk1P)

584 So you believe it is possible for a society to maintain greatness for eternity as long as they follow particular moral strictures? Really? Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:36 PM (celt+) Uh yeah. In electronics this is known as "Resonance", and there is a "Q" factor associated with it. Any change loses signal level because it goes off resonance.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:22 PM (bb5+k)

585 Theres a lot of fucked up things you can consent to.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 05:19 PM (vd6Gd)

I have no idea what you're talking about, I don't know who those women were and have no clue as to how the 3 of them and me fit into that wall locker.

....but....that was a memorable night ; )

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:22 PM (x3YFz)

586 in victorian england, prostitution, drugs, and carrying a firearm were all permitted. It was simultaneously a moral society. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:00 PM (/FnUH) It's curious. It was very much a matter that things in public were to be treated different than things in private. It's decorum, not hypocrisy.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:22 PM (T0NGe)

587 This study compared prevalence rates of most common sexually transmitted diseases (STD) in heterosexual and homosexual men who made respectively 12,201 and 5324 visits to an STD clinic over 18 months. Overall, homosexual men were significantly (p < 0.001) more likely than heterosexual men to have gonorrhea (30.31% vs. 19.83%), early syphilis (1.08% vs. 0.34%) and anal warts (2.90% vs. 0.26%) but less likely to have nongonococcal urethritis (NGU) (14.63% vs. 36.40%, p < 0.001), herpes genitalis (0.93% vs. 3.65%, p < 0.001), pediculosis pubis (4.30% vs. 5.35%, p < 0.005), scabies (0.42% vs. 0.76%, p < 0.02), and genital warts (1.68% vs. 6.69%, p < 0.001). In most cases the differences in rates remained significant (p < 0.05) when corrected for age and race. It is speculated that higher rates of gonorrhea and syphilis result from a larger mean number of sexual contacts, more potential sites of infection, and more hidden and asymptomatic disease, while the lower rates of the other STD result from a lesser susceptibility of anal mucosa to the causative agent(s) of NGU, herpes genitalis, and venereal warts or from a lack of pubic apposition (pediculosis pubis). this in pre-aids 1980

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:23 PM (zOTsN)

588 395 Last stat I saw was that over 1/3rd of sex change patients commit suicide. Their problem is not their gender, it's their mental illness. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 04:38 PM (ZPrif) Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:24 PM (bb5+k)

589 584 I dunno about that. Although it may be more just that they have a looser attitude re monogamy.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:24 PM (vd6Gd)

590 At the National STD Prevention Conference on Wednesday, the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) released some astonishing data regarding rates of infection among MSM (Men who have Sex with Men). The data indicate that rates of HIV infection among gay men and other men who have sex with men (MSM) are more than 44 times higher than rates among heterosexual men and more than 40 times higher than women. Rates of syphilis, an STD that can facilitate HIV infection and, if left untreated, may lead to sight loss and severe damage to the nervous system, are reported to be more than 46 times higher among gay men and other MSM than among heterosexual men and more than 71 times higher than among women. (Full presser here). from 2010

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:25 PM (zOTsN)

591 Rush Limbaugh commented that Michael Sam will now be less attractive in the draft, not because he's gay but because he's in the news. He'll get drafted. If nothing else, a team can make him a practice squad guy. But I disagree with Rush, the PR benefit will be positive for the team. And he doesn't seem to be a problem in the locker room. I think the problem with the "famous" guy is that you tend to scrutinize their weaknesses too much. I've seen it with hiring. I tend to pick apart the most popular candidate.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:25 PM (T0NGe)

592 While the heavy toll of HIV and syphilis among gay and bisexual men has been long recognized, this analysis shows just how stark the health disparities are between this and other populations," said Kevin Fenton, M.D., director of CDC's National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention. "It is clear that we will not be able to stop the U.S. HIV epidemic until every affected community, along with health officials nationwide, prioritize the needs of gay and bisexual men with HIV prevention efforts.

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:26 PM (zOTsN)

593 In Victorian England, a gentleman wouldn't be out of place with his revolver...and yet never expect to use it. In modern England, handguns are banned...yet crime runs amok. "Progress."

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4Eaz/)

594 "These days, it's probably true to say on average, gay men are no more (or not much more) promisuous than heterosexuals of comparable ages and marital status."
I think there was a time during the 90s when it slowed down out of shock and fear, but I doubt that's lasted. My guess is things are moving back toward the older pattern than not, but I have no data.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:26 PM (zfY+H)

595 Their problem is not their gender, it's their mental illness. ----------------------- Yes, but their proclivities are not a reflection of that. They are normal and healthy

Posted by: The APA at February 14, 2014 01:27 PM (aDwsi)

596 So you believe it is possible for a society to maintain greatness for eternity as long as they follow particular moral strictures? Really?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 14, 2014 04:36 PM (celt+)

What moral code you follow is your own. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not likely.

I know 1 good man for every 100 bad.

Character, integrity, honesty, courage. All wrapped up in 1 person? Very hard to find.

Hell, I often find myself deficient.

Doesn't mean you don't fail, then pick yourself up, ruck up, learn and press.

you're young, obviously. I hope you learn, doubt you will.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:27 PM (x3YFz)

597 I agree with this as I said. What I don't agree with is that the fight for the photographer's rights will be aided by some general negative social messaging about homosexuality. In fact, that is why I think we lose on winner issues like the baker or photographer. I think people just decide, in their gut, "Oh they hate gays, what bigots," and then we lose on meritorious issues. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 04:39 PM (/FnUH) And of course you disregard the cause of societal change towards the support of homosexuality. How about something like 87 television shows portraying them in a normal and non-twisted light? Of course they don't show anything objectionable on shows like "Glee", because after all, it would queer their propaganda efforts. Check out Zombies Blog to see how homosexuals behave when they aren't worried about who sees them.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:27 PM (bb5+k)

598 Guns were not very common in Victorian England. You can get a sense of this with the Sherlock Holmes stories; they didn't carry a gun even though they were on dangerous work except in special occasions (Watson's 'trust service revolver' naturally). Most had a set of pistols in their home as gentlemen, but they were sort of tradition from the dueling days, as I understand it, more than a tool to be useful.
And the poorer classes couldn't afford guns.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:28 PM (zfY+H)

599 I heard this rumor Liberace and Freddie Mercury might be gay...... See my issue here is not with his dick sucking it is with his likey being a dick. I get th seaking suspicion if he is not drafted it will now be b/c "gay".... Like I said when he "came out" wonderful how precisely does your ice cream preference impact your closing speed on the bal carrier. For fuck's sake Glee Mafia let it go the absence of sing-a-longs breaking out like a musical when you announce your pecadillos sort of belies the idea you're gonna get lynched. Another brick in the fuck you Roger Goody wall.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 14, 2014 01:29 PM (TE35l)

600 He'll get drafted. If nothing else, a team can make him a practice squad guy. But I disagree with Rush, the PR benefit will be positive for the team. And he doesn't seem to be a problem in the locker room.

I think the problem with the "famous" guy is that you tend to scrutinize their weaknesses too much. I've seen it with hiring. I tend to pick apart the most popular candidate. Posted by: AmishDude

It's a distraction. It will hurt his draft stock. Every news outlet in the nation will be sending reporters to cover this story and asking endless questions of the coach, players and management day after day after day. If he was Lawrence Taylor than then it wouldn't have much if any effect.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 01:29 PM (38LLM)

601 If the Liberals ever turned their "If it saves one child" spotlight onto the massive incidence of AIDS and syphillis among homosexual men, they'd be sterilizing them en masse. Especially since "kids" are 26 years old these days.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 01:30 PM (ZshNr)

602 As the trial phase of the constitutional battle to overturn the Proposition 8 ban on same-sex marriage concludes in federal court, gay nuptials are portrayed by opponents as an effort to rewrite the traditional rules of matrimony. Quietly, outside of the news media and courtroom spotlight, many gay couples are doing just that, according to groundbreaking new research. A study to be released next month is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many. Some gay men and lesbians argue that, as a result, they have stronger, longer-lasting and more honest relationships. And while that may sound counterintuitive, some experts say boundary-challenging gay relationships represent an evolution in marriage Â— one that might point the way for the survival of the institution. New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years Â— about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners from the NYTimes

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:30 PM (zOTsN)

603 If you feel I say something out of line, you shouldn't think you're hurting my feelings by saying so. You won't.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 05:21 PM (T0NGe)

It's not about hurting your feelings. I made a comment that was wrong. Please accept my apology.

Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 01:30 PM (x3YFz)

604 True, guns might have been expensive, but they weren't licensed by the government, let alone banned. Such a thing would've been utterly inconceivable.

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:30 PM (4Eaz/)

605

595 -

You may be right. There is anecdotal evidence (which isn't really evidence, of course) to support that. Supposedly these "kids" today aren't quite so scared of HIV and AIDS.

Maybe not so scared, but also not living in a culture that EVER knew a time before condom use was expected. The daredevils are out there, and sometimes people get duped by them, but people are people, which means MOST of us tend to do what is in our own best interest, including protecting ourselves from icky diseases.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 14, 2014 01:31 PM (TOk1P)

606 >>It's a distraction. It will hurt his draft stock. Every news outlet in the nation will be sending reporters to cover this story Just took the dog out and picked up the mail. Guess who is on the cover of SI? He was also the cover story on ESPN today. Not bad for a mid-round draft choice.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 01:31 PM (g1DWB)

607 598 the question isn't your personal theories, it's how issues like the photographer/baker can be "won" in a society that equates it to racism (hint: it's impossible)

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:31 PM (vd6Gd)

608 Roger Goodell made more than $44 million last year.

The highest annual average salary in history is Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers at $22 million. Goodell doubled that in a 12-month period ending on March 31 of last year.

How about a little income equality for this lefty douchebag

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 14, 2014 01:31 PM (FE/sZ)

609 The ability for society to frown on something while not banning it is something we lost with the rise of the modern left. Now things are more and more required or banned... Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 05:02 PM (M3hAT) Reminds me a bit of the fact that schools always have to call in the cops to enforce discipline. Everything has to go to court.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:32 PM (T0NGe)

610 439 "Pedophilia is where Homosexuality was in the 1950s, and heading towards the same sort of acceptance if you've been following the various news articles regarding it. " That's absurd. I personally know a church youth mentor who is in the Federal pen for more than 10 years for having sex with a 16 year old guy. They certainly butt-f*cked him with every inch of the law. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:44 PM (BOBhx) Your ability to read and understand is astounding. In the 1950s, they would have locked up Homosexuals just like that.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:32 PM (bb5+k)

611 Ahhh, yes, the Victorians. Women in corsets make my organs flutter.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 01:33 PM (S1ANu)

612 I trust Rush Limbaugh on football more than I do politics, he really is good on analysis of the game and he has background info on the sport. He's a better sports analyst than political these days when you can get the story and 500 takes on it, plus background material before he can even start broadcasting.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:33 PM (zfY+H)

613 " Women in corsets make my organs flutter." And ours squished.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 01:33 PM (jOumW)

614 I'm really sick of losing fucking elections because socons open their mouth when the election should be focused on fiscal issues that actually have a chance of winning. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:06 PM (BOBhx) We've discovered, however, that some of the most fiscy of fiscons are the freest spenders we have.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:34 PM (T0NGe)

615 Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 04:52 PM (aDwsi) Good point. Mike. I think most of the RC clergy abuse of males was of males 13-17 was which wouldn't make it pedophlila. It would make it epibophilia or how ever that word is spelled)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 14, 2014 01:35 PM (XyM/Y)

616 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 04:46 PM (BOBhx) You need to read Zombie's blog. If anything, the prevalent notion of homosexuality as resembling anything like monogamy is completely false. The very essence of Homosexual practice is promiscuity with many homosexuals having 1000+ sexual partners.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:35 PM (bb5+k)

617 614 " Women in corsets make my organs flutter."

And ours squished. Posted by

Then you aren't wearing a custom-fitted corset and you're not wearing it properly.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 01:35 PM (S1ANu)

618 The Edwardian perfected corsetry above and beyond even their Victorian parents...just sayin'.

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:36 PM (4Eaz/)

619 Posted by: JackStraw

Are you responding to my point or making a totally unrelated point of your own?

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 01:37 PM (38LLM)

620 >>We've discovered, however, that some of the most fiscy of fiscons are the freest spenders we have. And some socons are the biggest sinners. Hypocrisy is a pretty universal trait.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 01:37 PM (g1DWB)

621 One of my old Common Knowledge posts, the first one ever, was on corsets. They weren't as squishy as popular media would indicate, although I still wouldn't wear one.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (zfY+H)

622 It's like saying "I've never met a competent, fully-employed, functional person who uses cannabis!" Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 05:15 PM (S1ANu) I know you're talking about yourself, but I would point out that you are a lawyer, so...

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (T0NGe)

623 People above have asked something to the effect of "then were are the gays who are conservative?" As a scientist working in academia I'd say it's about the same as "where are the scientists who are conservative?" The creationists and anti-evolution crowd amongst the socons so repulse them that it creates a sort of political filter whereby everyone incrementally becomes to the left. Of course the sad thing is there's just as much anti-science lunacy amongst the earth-hippies of the left, but much of the media are experts at spinning and portraying these things such that for every crazy hippy you see 10 crazy creationists.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (BOBhx)

624 "Then you aren't wearing a custom-fitted corset and you're not wearing it properly." *resisting the urge to make comment that I will later regret*

Posted by: Totally not ACORN at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (jOumW)

625 "And some socons are the biggest sinners.
Hypocrisy is a pretty universal trait."
Aint that the truth. But when Senator Smoot the social conservative is caught with his pants down in the park bathroom, that doesn't affect law or policy.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (zfY+H)

626 453 Why would a straight boy molested by a man be inclined to become gay? I don't understand that. Posted by: SFGoth at February 14, 2014 04:47 PM (S1ANu) To convince himself that the traumatic event he experienced was okay. It's a lie he tells himself to save himself from his own feelings of disgust at what happened to him. Some people deal with trauma by convincing themselves they suffered no trauma because what happened to them was normal.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (bb5+k)

627 Damn it. Stupid sock from the new thread. Oh, and btw, nood.

Posted by: Lauren at February 14, 2014 01:39 PM (jOumW)

628 To spend this much energy on this 1% of the population seems crazy to me. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:18 PM (/FnUH) Bad cases make bad law. The courts are involved and there will be precedents.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:39 PM (T0NGe)

629 The thing is, obviously an Akin Effect existed, but the idea that GOP econ ideas are particularly popular/that Obama didn't destroy his rep early on with the "evil plutocrat" ads is delusional. People are against Obamacare. They're not really for any specific Republican econ idea, tho.

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:39 PM (vd6Gd)

630 new threads up.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 01:40 PM (38LLM)

631 624 ever think your perspective might be limited by your environment

Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 01:41 PM (vd6Gd)

632 Why would a straight boy molested by a man be inclined to become gay? I don't understand that. Posted by: SFGoth it happens. I have seen it first hand. When an adolescent boy is molested it makes him question his sexuality for the rest of his life

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:41 PM (zOTsN)

633 >>Are you responding to my point or making a totally unrelated point of your own? Agreeing with you. When you are the lead story on the two leading sports machines in the country kind of a big deal, no?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 01:42 PM (g1DWB)

634 "Of course the sad thing is there's just as much anti-science lunacy amongst the earth-hippies of the left, but much of the media are experts at spinning and portraying these things such that for every crazy hippy you see 10 crazy creationists."
And the hardcore evolutionist scientists can be daffy in their own right without becoming hippies. Its one thing to interpret data through a certain theoretical lens, we all have to do that. Its another to hammer everything into that evolution shaped hole no matter how hard you have to twist and invent and theorize. And some are worse at proselytizing than Ken Hamm. EVERYTHING is about "evolution" and "developed" and "evolved."
Good science is about being curious and working hard, not forcing the world to fit your pattern, be it creationist or not.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:42 PM (zfY+H)

635 "We've discovered, however, that some of the most fiscy of fiscons are the freest spenders we have." There effectively aren't any fiscons in office. It's either big government spending or diet-big government spending, all the way down to oblivion.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:43 PM (BOBhx)

636 The point being that what is wrong with them is that they are 'pedophiles' (they are not) rather homosexuals preying on young boys. Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 04:52 PM (aDwsi) If you look up the stats for molestation, you quickly discover molested boys make up about 40% of all molestations. Given that 2% of the population is homosexual, they are greatly overrepresented in terms of child molestation. By a factor of about 20.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:43 PM (bb5+k)

637 "633 Why would a straight boy molested by a man be inclined to become gay? I don't understand that. Posted by: SFGoth it happens. I have seen it first hand. When an adolescent boy is molested it makes him question his sexuality for the rest of his life" I've personally known someone who was molested by a man at a very young age, and he grew up to be straight. This is all anecdotal as hell.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:44 PM (BOBhx)

638 "If you look up the stats for molestation, you quickly discover molested boys make up about 40% of all molestations. Given that 2% of the population is homosexual, they are greatly overrepresented in terms of child molestation. By a factor of about 20. " And blacks commit a majority of the crimes, but I doubt you'd use that statistic to argue for racism against blacks or treatment of blacks as a 2nd class citizen.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:45 PM (BOBhx)

639 >>Aint that the truth. But when Senator Smoot the social conservative is caught with his pants down in the park bathroom, that doesn't affect law or policy. True to a point. But many people love to pushback on socons because they view them as huge scolds. When they are shown to be hypocrites it really damages the socon agenda.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 01:45 PM (g1DWB)

640 That is true, the pushback causes bad policy by reaction or by having Senator Smoot replaced by Senator Malak, the hard left freak.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:47 PM (zfY+H)

641 "I've personally known someone who was molested by a man at a very young age, and he grew up to be straight. This is all anecdotal as hell."
You're right, it is anecdotal, but the question was why does it happen, and the answer is to speculate, not to try to come up with some universal absolute.
Anecdotal support is merely to show that it can happen, not that it must.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 01:48 PM (zfY+H)

642 "True to a point. But many people love to pushback on socons because they view them as huge scolds. When they are shown to be hypocrites it really damages the socon agenda." Well personally as an atheist I think the secular socialists are the most obnoxious scolds in society, by orders of magnitude.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:49 PM (BOBhx)

643 in victorian england, prostitution, drugs, and carrying a firearm were all permitted. It was simultaneously a moral society. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:00 PM (/FnUH) And quite uptight and proper. Dirty deeds were done behind closed doors. Contrast this with the Previous era, the "Georgian era." Mass death due to sexually transmitted diseases. In fact, it is rather an easy conclusion to reach that the Victorian era (England's greatest rise to power and prestige) was a consequential backlash of the Georgian era.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:49 PM (bb5+k)

644 One of the things that happened with the onset of AIDS is that gay men started taking more responsibility. Which is why, all of a sudden, marriage (or at least the hypothetical idea of potential possible marriage that won't be really taken all that seriously but there'll be an official License from the Almighty State) is a thing now.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:49 PM (T0NGe)

645 "And quite uptight and proper. Dirty deeds were done behind closed doors. " The dirty deeds were done dirt cheap.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:50 PM (BOBhx)

646 The ability for society to frown on something while not banning it is something we lost with the rise of the modern left. Now things are more and more required or banned... Posted by: 18-1 at February 14, 2014 05:02 PM (M3hAT) My recollection is that Queen Victoria banned male homosexuality. She did not pass a law banning female homosexuality because she could not conceive such a thing was possible.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:50 PM (bb5+k)

647 the Victorians prosecuted homosexuals, some of them literary greats

Posted by: thunderb at February 14, 2014 01:51 PM (zOTsN)

648 521 Re: the Victorians as both libertarian and moral: the UK (and with it the British Empire) getting into WWI led to more bad consequences than any other single decision in history. And for what? For BELGIUM?! Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 05:04 PM (4Eaz/) The Victorians were not Libertarian. They were morally uptight in the best manner of the icky socons.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:52 PM (bb5+k)

649

Still waiting to hear that Jonathan Martin is Ghey.

Still waiting for the first openly Ghey ESPN 'personality'.

Still waiting for the first openly Ghey Head Coach.

Posted by: Not Holding My Breath Though at February 14, 2014 01:52 PM (nbGZj)

650 we will at some point have to have a discussion about from whence morality arises, and if it is better that it be encouraged, and arise from within, or be compelled from without. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:06 PM (/FnUH) I offer Edmund Burke's opinion, which I also share. "Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, Â— in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, Â— in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, Â— in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:55 PM (bb5+k)

651 It's not about hurting your feelings. I made a comment that was wrong. Please accept my apology. Posted by: tangonine (Commander, 3d Squirrel Brigade) at February 14, 2014 05:30 PM (x3YFz) I will, of course, but you have nothing to apologize for as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 14, 2014 01:57 PM (T0NGe)

652 Geeze O'Pete... some commielib sleeper agent has been feeding Ace too much tofu.

Tofu is full of gayness ya' know...

...cause that's the only explanation for this totally outta left field shit getting posted this week.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at February 14, 2014 01:57 PM (lJaja)

653 I'm really sick of losing fucking elections because socons open their mouth when the election should be focused on fiscal issues that actually have a chance of winning. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:06 PM (BOBhx) Oh, I see your problem. You don't understand what's happening, and think the problem is the socon message. Sorry dude, it's the media. It is only the media, and it is nothing but the media. They "fish" for these stupid comments such as Akin made (supported by Democrats in the primary precisely because he was a known social mouth-off) and then they gleefully report them dialed up to eleventy!

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 01:57 PM (bb5+k)

654 "The Victorians were not Libertarian. They were morally uptight in the best manner of the icky socons." The principal point of invoking the Victorians was to point out a society with the maturity to say those things worthy of personal disapproval do not merit prohibition at the point of a gun, nor the creation of a state apparatus large and intrusive to effective such prohibitions. The Victorians ran their entire empire with, I would guess, fewer bureaucrats and armed men in uniform alike than currently answer to the Mayor of New York City.

Posted by: Dave J. at February 14, 2014 01:59 PM (4Eaz/)

655 Great Burke quote, but did he ever say anything lame or regrettable? Not that was recorded, at least.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 02:00 PM (zfY+H)

656 >>Well personally as an atheist I think the secular socialists are the most obnoxious scolds in society, by orders of magnitude. Yep.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 02:00 PM (g1DWB)

657 As a scientist working in academia I'd say it's about the same as "where are the scientists who are conservative?" The creationists and anti-evolution crowd amongst the socons so repulse them that it creates a sort of political filter whereby everyone incrementally becomes to the left. Of course the sad thing is there's just as much anti-science lunacy amongst the earth-hippies of the left, but much of the media are experts at spinning and portraying these things such that for every crazy hippy you see 10 crazy creationists.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:38 PM (BOBhx)

Oh, a scientist. An mocking the creationists. But, not with science. What a surprise.

So, scientist, let's hear the science. How did we come into being? I suppose you will talk about the theory of evolution (but probably not emphasizing that whole part about it being a theory). OK, let's say that's the case. Man evolved from lower life forms, who evolved from still lower ones, etc. All the way back to that very first life form, some kind of single cell organism. OK, where did that first one come from? The theory of evolution does not say. But, some may speculate, lightning hit some pond and energized, blah, blah, blah. What is the science behind whatever theory you have about that first life form coming into existence?

Answer: none. Not one little speck. The creationists have just as much science as you behind them when they talk about where that very first life form came from.

Well, let's set that aside for a minute and go bigger. How did the universe come into being? I suppose you will say the big bang. OK, let's say it is so. Some creationists will agree with you. But, what is more interesting is, what caused the big bang. Please, lay out the science. We know the creationists will say someone (God, for example) made it so. But, you will mock them for their ignorant superstitions. So, what is your science? That first there was nothing, and then spontaneously, there was a big bang, and then there was everything? What is your evidence, man of science?

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 14, 2014 02:00 PM (IN7k+)

658 Since this is the ghey thread, can anyone 'splain why Putin is letting the men's curling team where ghey pants?

Posted by: olddog in mo at February 14, 2014 02:01 PM (EKOIc)

659 I think its a law that Curling outfits have to be even more hideous than golfing.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 02:03 PM (zfY+H)

660 The few gay dudes I've known well were all at above the promiscuity level of the most horndog straight dudes I knew. Meanwhile the few lesbians I've known well were less promiscuous than the avg straight chick. But perhaps my samples were skewed. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 05:14 PM (ZPrif) Nope, that is indeed the norm among both groups. But male homosexual promiscuity is easy to understand. Imagine that every time you went to a bar there were dozens of attractive young girls who all wanted to have sex with you and had just as strong of a sex drive as a man. That is the situation homosexuals find themselves in, except the attractive young girls are other males.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:03 PM (bb5+k)

661 "Well, let's set that aside for a minute and go bigger. How did the universe come into being? I suppose you will say the big bang. " Nope. I think the big bang is about like catastrophic global warming theory; a bunch of gobbledy-gook with no serious experimental evidence. As an atheist I don't need to "prove" anything about the origins of man. The burden of proof is on a theist to prove the existence of God. But I'm not Richard Dawkins, so I'm not going to call you an idiot for believing in God, and I think the debate is often useless :-D

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:05 PM (BOBhx)

662 564 558 pretty sure dudes tend more toward "open" setups but D Lamp is using dated 70s pre-AIDS data Posted by: phantom at February 14, 2014 05:16 PM (vd6Gd) Using what I remember from back when I was researching this subject.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:05 PM (bb5+k)

663 "But male homosexual promiscuity is easy to understand. Imagine that every time you went to a bar there were dozens of attractive young girls who all wanted to have sex with you and had just as strong of a sex drive as a man. " I will agree with this. The woman is usually the limiting factor in a man and woman having sex. In gay relationships that limiting factor is removed, so amongst young gay men who felt repressed in the past there is an explosion of sex that is often destructive to their lives. That's what I saw with my gay friends. It's a sad problem with their culture.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:07 PM (BOBhx)

664 To spend this much energy on this 1% of the population seems crazy to me. Posted by: ace at February 14, 2014 05:18 PM (/FnUH) Yeah, Castro's just one guy. What can he do?

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:08 PM (bb5+k)

665 But I'm not Richard Dawkins Thank you, God. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 14, 2014 02:09 PM (XyM/Y)

666 "Nope. I think the big bang is about like catastrophic global warming theory; a bunch of gobbledy-gook with no serious experimental evidence. "
Good scientists don't mess with metaphysics. But these days its all we hear about: theories and making stuff up trying to explain what actual work cannot.
God love Stephen Hawking and I'm sure he's a brilliant scientist but most of what he talks about in his books and publicly is just fantasy, not science. Its theories built on speculation, based on guesswork.
Maybe its right, maybe its wrong. Nobody knows and nobody can know. That kind of thing is fun to talk about over lunch but its not science any more than saying the moon is made of cheese.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 14, 2014 02:12 PM (zfY+H)

667 Dude, Ace is gay?

Posted by: cyrus pants at February 14, 2014 02:13 PM (yiXGm)

668 Have to go. Have no further time for this.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:13 PM (bb5+k)

669 It'd be damn funny if, in the middle of the lefty media frenzy, he came out as gay AND conservative.

Posted by: ChicagoXile at February 14, 2014 02:17 PM (K0QSo)

670 "Good scientists don't mess with metaphysics. But these days its all we hear about: theories and making stuff up trying to explain what actual work cannot. God love Stephen Hawking and I'm sure he's a brilliant scientist but most of what he talks about in his books and publicly is just fantasy, not science. Its theories built on speculation, based on guesswork. " As a physicist let me assure you that popular physics reporting is terrible; more incredibly terrible than you can imagine. For every 200 physicists doing real research on things like giant magnetoresistance (which gave you sexy magnetic hard drives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_magnetoresistance ) there will be maybe 1 kook studying nonsense like string theory or speculative unprovable theories about black holes. When the news magazines need a sexy superficial science story, who do you think they go to? The dry realistic guy talking about gritty real things, or the smoked-out sci-fi Micho Kaku hyper-dimensional crap?

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:17 PM (BOBhx)

671 Yeah that's a fact. Imagine that, applied to religious reporting too. They get something right once in a while, by accident, and pick the most bizarre and wild eyed guy they can to interview.

Posted by: The Goat at February 14, 2014 02:21 PM (zfY+H)

672 IS it really gay-gay if he's into really effeminate thai trannies?

Posted by: Burnt Toast at February 14, 2014 02:29 PM (80R0X)

673 I have no duty to call mental illness a normal state of being. I simply hope for a cure for the sick ones. Of course, I expect to be forced to make such admissions "up is down", "2+2=5" eventually in the camps' version of Room 101.

So I have that to look forward to.

Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at February 14, 2014 02:32 PM (5ikDv)

674 In the 90s I would've picking considered very pro-gay. I grew up with gay neighbors had gay friends I was always a believer in gay tolerance as a libertarian. However keep on pushing the bar with their gay agenda. I personally feel that it still is a perversion and it's not normal. The science is still not there for it being genetic despite what the gay lobby says. Twin studies have shown that is not concordant. I'm just sick of the politically correct it reeducation camp style enforcement of the gay agenda.

Posted by: Avi at February 14, 2014 02:57 PM (p/izY)

675 I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you homos touch me, and I'll kill you.

Posted by: Psycho at February 14, 2014 03:26 PM (2+bRt)

676 I'm going to come right out and say it. I'm not gay. That felt good.

Posted by: MostlyRight at February 14, 2014 03:33 PM (iArf4)

677

"One can consistently argue in favor of maximum freedom for both parties".

Yeah, before you even realize it you will be jailed for owning a bible. But the ghey overlords will be kind to you, knowing how well you've been sucking their cocks.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 14, 2014 03:45 PM (rnV3B)

678 "Why tell anyone? Why put it in our faces?" Thanks, Ace, for exhaustingly (sic) going through the arguments in favor in order to demonstrate there is in fact no good reason to issue a press release about your personal habits. I did not ask him. He does not need to tell me until I do, which will be roughly never.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 14, 2014 04:03 PM (ZG3Fa)

679 I don't give two sh$ts if he's gay or not. Whatever works for him. Yet I think teams will shy away from drafting him due to the distraction, and it will be a huge distraction, of the media breathlessly reporting on every "first" he does. "First" time an openly gay player starts training camp, "First" time an openly gay player practices in pads. It will take away from his team and I don't think the coaches or players want a preventable distraction when it's hard enough to win in the NFL.

Posted by: RaiderJoe at February 14, 2014 04:05 PM (+mmjH)

680 "Comparing gays to pedophiles is like comparing gun owners to the freaks who shoot up public schools and theaters." Comparing their predelictions is not. They both have deviant sexual impulses that are biologically counterproductive. As long as they are not indulged, they are quite comparable.

Posted by: immolate at February 14, 2014 04:48 PM (AaHJC)

681

And ladies and gentlemen when the left will finally crush any form of religion (except their beloved Islam of course) and you will ask yourself why you lost your job for saying that you wish your son would grow straight, remember to thank fifth columnists like roadrunner, after all, she only wanted to protect her ghey friends in order to feel morally superior.

Hey champ, I read all your ramblings. One post you have chastised someone who said gays have only sex on their minds, on another you agree that they fuck like rabbits because of availability. Do you realize how pathetic you sound? Don't you have some other more useful hobby rather than being an active anabler for the new fascists?

Useful idiot. When it will be over you will not do much with your rainbow pin. They are using you

Posted by: fromabroad at February 14, 2014 05:10 PM (rnV3B)

682 Send him to the NFL team with the ugliest uniforms. If he can fix that, he can stay.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 14, 2014 05:12 PM (XO6WW)

683 Oh and in the UK they have suspended a school teacher because she did not want to read Heather has two mommies. Where are the legions of your moderate ghey friends rallying in the streets to protect freedom of conscience? Where are the numerous publications of the immense legion of your ghey moderates opposing the lynching of the Christian florist?

Posted by: fromabroad at February 14, 2014 05:16 PM (rnV3B)

684 "And ladies and gentlemen when the left will finally crush any form of religion (except their beloved Islam of course) and you will ask yourself why you lost your job for saying that you wish your son would grow straight, remember to thank fifth columnists like roadrunner, after all, she only wanted to protect her ghey friends in order to feel morally superior." I believe in individual rights and think that what consenting adults do in their bedroom is not our or the government's business. Can you tell me how your belief in individual rights and limited government justifies writing laws that ban gay marriage or adult gays having consensual sex? Also, I'm a guy. "Hey champ, I read all your ramblings. One post you have chastised someone who said gays have only sex on their minds, on another you agree that they fuck like rabbits because of availability." Their sexual activity is no greater than any young man's would be if women were as aggressively open towards sex as hetero men. Let's not entertain any silly fantasies of "decency" here. The young hetero college frat culture is about as hedonistic and nihilistic and empty of any intellectual value as any culture in America. If young women were equally sexually aggressive, they would fuck like rabbits too. "Do you realize how pathetic you sound? Don't you have some other more useful hobby rather than being an active anabler for the new fascists?" The only pathetic thing I see is Obama being president for 8 years in a row because the republicans are too weak to mount a consistent defense of individual rights and fiscal sanity, and they therefore are unable to broadly appeal to what commonsense middle class Americans remain. Keep pimping social conservatism, and keep losing elections.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:30 PM (xMSfj)

685 "They both have deviant sexual impulses that are biologically counterproductive." Masturbating to pictures of naked women also is not biologically productive. Do you have a problem with that?

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 05:32 PM (xMSfj)

686 Eeeh, roadrunner... Has anyone ever told you that you do a great impersonation of Maude? Sure, you are talking up your gay friends, where she would be espousing the virtues of her "black friends" in a condescendingly defensive manner... but otherwise, comedy gold.

Posted by: phil at February 14, 2014 06:54 PM (QzdcC)

687 "I believe in individual rights and think that what consenting adults do in their bedroom is not our or the government's business. Can you tell me how your belief in individual rights and limited government justifies writing laws that ban gay marriage or adult gays having consensual sex? Also, I'm a guy. " your ghey friends can fuck a cow for all I care, there are biological reasons why we allow widow women get the deceased husband's pension, namely the woman taking time off her career to give birth, an issue that does not reproduce between 2 MEN. Anything else can be regulated with a trip to a solicitor/lawyer. No need to grant them any special right to 'marry'. Also marriage itself is not the stabilising factor, the FEMALE companionship is. Again something missing between your 2 ghey friends. Why do we say China is a minebomb? because they have altered the ratio male-female and there will be unrest if legions of male do not find a chance to create a family unit. Same goes with the muslim world and polygamy. The WOMAN is the stabilizing factor in a couple, not MARRIAGE. "Their sexual activity is no greater than any young man's would be if women were as aggressively open towards sex as hetero men." Which isn't for said biological reasons. You are wrong and you are too dense to understand it. You cannot hold a logical argument because all you care is being 'emotional' in protecting your ghey friends. "Let's not entertain any silly fantasies of "decency" here. " I wasn't but you are too stupid to understand it. " If young women were equally sexually aggressive, they would fuck like rabbits too. " Which will not happen in any point of history of humanity. You cannot bring your 'ifs' as FACTS. What a waste of space you are. Have you ever heard about a 'logical' argument? "The only pathetic thing I see is Obama being president for 8 years in a row because the republicans are too weak to mount a consistent defense of individual rights and fiscal sanity" I am not American, so frankly, it is your problem. In my country we don't have this lunacy of 'ghey marriage' and letting them buy children and thank god for Putin. Thinking that just because of ghey marriage people will start voting republican is like thinking Hispanics will vote republican if granted amnesty. A false assumption. Courting gheys and their idiotic supporters is useless. You will never win an election again without social conservative as much as you find them icky. In most eastern Europe opposition to gheys and their whining is NOT because o religious reasons because those places are still atheist. Same goes for Korea, Japan, China etc. The majority of people that worldwide are against homosexuality are non-religious. The same can be true in the USA. At that point you lose all your arguments, you are so used to say that the church suck and you are stupid to read the bible that once presented with non-religious FACTS about why your ghey buddies do NOT DESERVE marriage you don't know what to say. You are the true bigot and I wouldn't be surprised if freedom of conscience is severely curtailed because of people like you and Ace. At that point go back to your ghey friends and ask their support and see them flipping the bird to you. You are truly stupid. You are investing emotions and ideals in a bunch of narcissistic sel-serving people that will never like you completely because they cannot FUCK YOU. "Masturbating to pictures of naked women also is not biologically productive. Do you have a problem with that?" Idiot, the people masturbating are not demanding social acceptance and the people's applause, nor to elevate their practice to an IDENTITY. Get a grip, you are so stupid.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 12:06 AM (rnV3B)

688 1. Where are your moderate ghey friends in condemning that buffoon DAn Savage (who calls Christians retarded) 2. Where are your moderate ghey friends in condemning that buffoon Andrew Sullivan (AIDS ridden and permanently living in Sarah Palin's uterus)? 3. Where are your moderate ghey friends in condemning the idea that a child is well off even without a mother? Rupert Everett in the UK said that publicly and there was a backlash from USA ghey orgs. NOT ONE PROMINENT GHEY came out in his defence 4.Where are your moderate ghey friends in condemning the couples suing the florist, the bakery and the photographer? 5. both boy George and pete burns said marriage is NOT for gheys, where are your moderate ghey friends commenting that they might be right and they are free to express their opinions? 6. Where are your moderate ghey friends not goosestepping out of the party line. It is not necessary to vote republican, just a dissenting voice would be enough to understand they really have the diversity they always brag about. All of the above is not going to happen because they are bunch of self-serving narcissists hell bent on taking away dissenting voices and enablers like yourself are giving them cover because they are your 'friends'. Why don't you challenge them with any of the above questions? are you afraid of hurting their sensibilities? that they will not talk to you anymore? so you wont be able to brag again about your ghey friends? You let this crap go too far. Now it is even shameful thinking a child needs a mother and a father, thanks also to people like you. And it will get worse and worse. You have helped creating the atmosphere described here by ace in another post 'many products are not sold strictly on utility. Many products are sold much more on the suggestion that they signal a cultural affiliation. Starbucks isn't just selling coffee, of course. The coffee they sell you costs a buck; the rest of the cost represents the sale of "The Starbucks Lifestyle." You have helped creating the cultural affiliation of pro-ghey marriage = smart, pro-traditional marriage = stinky and icky. Thanks for nothing idiot. You will realize you signed up for doom. You decided to protect the nastiest, most self-serving group in the history of humanity, able to brainwash masses with the complicity of academia and pop culture. They have succeeded where marx failed. You don't have to appeal to money (rich=bad, poor=good), cos money is an abstract entity, you have to appeal to the association of tradition=icky and anti-tradition=cool. Stupid enabler.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 12:40 AM (rnV3B)

689 oh oh wonderful timing "An openly gay Libertarian mayoral candidate in Washington, D.C., received an especially low rating from the districtÂ’s Gay and Lesbian Activists Alliance (GLAA) because he espouses limited government and does not support taxpayer funding of the groupÂ’s special interests agenda." Where are your ghey small government types? why they don't speak up against this lack of diversity within their ranks? Why are you supporting the new fascists?

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 04:13 AM (rnV3B)

690 If fromabroad and others here represents the intellectual firepower of the conservative movement, we are doomed.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 15, 2014 05:18 AM (xMSfj)

691 "Where are your ghey small government types? why they don't speak up against this lack of diversity within their ranks? " Where are the socons speaking out against the Westboro Baptist crowd and their ilk who would openly want a Christian theocracy? Republicans will never court immigrated hispanics because those people were brought up in nations that are thoroughly socialistic compared to America. But gays are raised here in America, and are capable of being swayed to any political spectrum depending on what happens in their life. From personal experience of being raised in an extremely small conservative farm town in the Bible belt, young gay men feel repressed and disrespected by social conservatives, and that feeling is valid. If you came out as gay in high school in a small social conservative farm town people would maliciously ruin your life. Gay-accepting liberal cities represent a utopia for them where they can live without repressing who they are. If team A says you are vile and compare you to pedophiles, while team B says you are different but good, which team are you going to cheer for?

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 15, 2014 05:41 AM (xMSfj)

692 " If fromabroad and others here represents the intellectual firepower of the conservative movement, we are doomed." then learn how to suck cocks, you're gonna need it. I still see no sign of the questions I asked, you are such a coward you wouldn't even dare ask those to your many ghey friends. god forbid they call you homophobe

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 06:07 AM (rnV3B)

693 "Where are the socons speaking out against the Westboro Baptist crowd and their ilk who would openly want a Christian theocracy" asshole, I am FROM ABROAD because I have nothing to do with a few paid deranged employed in a false flag operation. Nobody outside the USA ever heard of the wesboro Baptist church, they don't even represent the Baptist branch of Christianity. They just speak for themselves. On the other hand, asshole Dan savage speaks for the ghey community. Gladd speaks for the ghey community. It is not my fault that the 'moderate' gheys are even more cowards than the moderate muslims. "But gays are raised here in America, and are capable of being swayed to any political spectrum depending on what happens in their life." What part of GLAD supports socialism you do not understand? There is more chance than native from Italy or Hungary votes conservative than a local ghey. And Immigrants from Italy and Hungary are in higher numbers. "From personal experience of being raised in an extremely small conservative farm town in the Bible belt, young gay men feel repressed and disrespected by social conservatives, and that feeling is valid. If you came out as gay in high school in a small social conservative farm town people would maliciously ruin your life." tell them to grow a pair of balls and simply wear them not only when they are cruising bathhouses. Young people feel lonely and isolated for a series of matters, physical unattractiveness, poverty, peers' perceptions etc, YET you are telling us only the precious feelings of gheys are worth defending. You are a fraud. Everywhere there are acts of bullyism towards pretty much every kid, because they are mentally retarded, they are fat, they are poor, bad acne, some girls are called sluts and what not and some of them even took their lives. NOT A FUCKING PEEP from people like you. Yet, homos kill themselves and we are supposed to make laws JUST FOR THEM. NOT A PEEP from the fucking homo crowd about their ilk insulting Trig Palin. NOT A SINGLE VOICE!!! Wasn't a ghey 'artist' the one hanging a puppet resembling Sarah Palin? "If team A says you are vile and compare you to pedophiles, while team B says you are different but good, which team are you going to cheer for?" I just wish they would fuck off and die. If we are talking about gheys, they are a ridiculous number, not a demographic worth courting. It's the fucking idiots like yourself protecting them that will doom us. It's this fucking hysteria of protecting them from the world where NO OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE received the same level of protection and cuddling. The mass brainwashing that is going on is never before seen in history. Thanks to enablers like you. I repeat my questions Where are the dissenting voices in the ghey block? Remember, they do not have to vote republican, it would be enough that they stop goosestepping with the commies and leftists. But they do not exist, their goal is the same of the commies, destroy the traditional family so that they can buy children and call themselves 'normal' because normality as we know it will be destroyed. I don't fucking care about supporting your delusion and theirs. Let it burn, when push come to shove the muslims will take care of this useless bunch and maybe then will regret throwing stones at Christian churches and Mormon temples because it was thanks to those people that they could engage in their narcissistic lifestyle scot-free. Or maybe they are so self absorbed that they will not even realize and blame republicans. That's the typical cop out of the idiots you so warmly support.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 06:24 AM (rnV3B)

694 "This is why I frequently urge a cleaving between the one issue (a political winner) and the other issue (a political loser). Even if you don't agree with my analysis, for political reasons, it makes sense to separate a winning issue from a more powerful losing one. If the winning issue is weighed down by a more powerful losing one, it will be dragged down to the bottom of the lake with it." I wish Republicans would read this, and read it again, then read it again. It's not about whether you like gays, or whether you should like gays. It's about not sinking your election chances by tying your platform to an increasingly unpopular issue. It's like gun control for Democrats.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 15, 2014 06:51 AM (xMSfj)

695 he's historic for another reason too ... he's the first NFL prospect who's black, has has a type O negative blood type and is left handed ... HISTORIC I tell ya ... good f****ing lord ...

Posted by: JeffC at February 15, 2014 07:19 AM (84L5/)

696 Another add to the scrap pile blog. A fake conservative one.

Ace, you are out of your mind. Nobody cares. Nobody "straight" talks about themselves being that or not. It's not a factor in this setting, regardless of views on same sex marriage, etc.

This 24-7 Ellen Page crap is absurd. He's not even on a team yet, and the first real contact is to announce his sexual preferences and not about business matters?

Give us a break.

Worse is people like Ace who play the game of progressives to a T.

I have an idea for you Ace. Why not come out as a liberal?

Posted by: Mehow at February 15, 2014 07:37 AM (2bVKF)

697 Really. Now do Dems, regardless of popularity, back away from gun control???

Very recently, at least, public opinion was on the SIDE of no same sex marriage. And our weak so called supporters are such wimps to their values they want to back away from previously WINNNG ISSUES which our wimpy side manage to reverse to a loser, from overwhelming support FOR the no-same sex marriage side to complete reversal, and our libertarian and social lib "Republicans" are all too eager to throw in the towel.

The difference between progressives and "our" side is they fight a all costs 24-7 for their views and the type of society they want to reside in. Uncompromisingly.

They do not care how long it takes, they take unpopular (currently) views without regret and without taking polls or worrying about the next election. Yet time and again, people on our side take whatever issue they deem as "risky" and back away and say "that ship has sailed, we will lose so we better not talk about anymore" and that is WHY (one big reason anyway) that we lose.

Soon, after all the gun clubs are gone from schools, after all the kids are tossed out for pop tart guns, and polls shift, the same "Republican" moderates and scaredy-cat conservatives will say we need to keep quiet about guns, too.

It's just a matter of time...

Posted by: Mehow at February 15, 2014 07:45 AM (2bVKF)

698 I see that idiotic roadrunner prefers to run away to uncomfortable questions rather than answering them and use cheap rhetoric to advance his dooming agenda. Let's assume for sake of argument that you are right. Republicans embrace all the crap social ideology of the democrats and gain a whopping 0.02% chances more to be elected. At this point you cannot fault social conservatives who have been putting up with compromise all their existence stop voting delivering a net -20%. But let's suppose even more absurdly that for some strange miracle Republicans win the elections because they managed to sway those all-important homosexuals that can change the course of elections. After we have granted ghey marriage, stated the superiority of the homo-sapiens-homosexual, cave to all their demands, let them take away children from bible thumpers to raise them in urban socialist paradises. Where do we stop for the sake of having the big tent? multiple toilets for all the transgender types? job quotas? On Facebook now you an assign yourself your preferred gender, including agender, bigender, cisgender, fluid, nonconforming and I stop the lunacy here, but they are 51. What do you reply when one of those subgroups demands something? We agreed to the homosexual lunacy, why not to the agender lunacy? Where do you draw the line? Because if conservatives throw principles to the wind (do you still know what is a principle?) there is nothing preventing all sexual subgroups demanding anything and everything in between and BOTH parties caving into them. The issue is 'unpopular' because of pansy asses like yourself who hold a grudge about their countryside upbringing. The issue is widely popular in China and Russia. Even cheese eating surrender monkeys in france manage to stop gheys from adopting and buying children from surrogates. What does it tell you about American inability to do the same. You have only yourself to blame. Instead of wasting your time here where you are not convincing everybody of the fabulousness of gheys why don't you proselytize among them telling them the virtues of fiscal conservatisms or what an asshole Obama is. I bet you believe that no matter how clever you think you are they will still prefer to suck from the government tits and that said governments locks down churches and silence anybody who dares not to bow down.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 07:45 AM (rnV3B)

699 "yeah I get that but... we are in a period of change."

No, Ace. You are.

The proggies use media and stuff like this to advance their brainwashing agenda. They know what they doing. It's all activism, all the time for them. That's why nearly every tv show known to man has a "gay" character in it, since lefties wear their activism on their sleeves, and yours, too.

It's homosexual. Not gay. Stop adopting their terms. That's part of the problem. Homosexual is correct, and it's not even a slur, but clinical. Just as Heterosexual is correct for the typical, opposite sex attraction.

From Redstate, to HotAir, to this, conservatives show why they lose all the time. They accept lefty premises and labels, on down to calling the only constitutional opinion of separate funding for the government as being a "CLEAN" debt ceiling bill or not. If you keep using their lying language, you lose over time.

We are not changing. It happened through marketing, 24-7 from TV shows to this junk. It's been rammed down throats even though no more homosexuals exist today than at any other time in history. But you'd never know that by watching TV...

Posted by: Mehow at February 15, 2014 07:53 AM (2bVKF)

700 "The difference between progressives and "our" side is they fight a all costs 24-7 for their views and the type of society they want to reside in. Uncompromisingly. " see roadrunner? silly social cons know the answer. It's just idiots like you who do not get it. Thanks to the brainwashing of Hollywood and academia they have managed to brainwash the gullible population. When we point out how full of crap they are we are called by the fifth columnists like you icky socons. But we predicted all of this a long ago. Known communist Antonio Gramsci said that to turn a country communist you only need to have by your side school, mass media and the justice system. Bingo, homos and their friends have all of them, thanks to people like you. It is beyond me how 1% of the population managed to enslave the rest so easily. Putting up some resistance wouldn't have hurt. Now it is too late, I wish you other obamas in the future, knowing that you are part of the problem, not of the solution.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 15, 2014 07:56 AM (rnV3B)

701 I tend to agree roadrunner is one of the typical fi-con only types who just does not see the big picture. Leftists look at every opportunity to advance the ball to shape the culture. It's why they teach moral proggie value lessons inside every tv show. It's why they stealthily remove gun clubs from schools over a period of years, mega react and suspend kids over pop tarts shaped as guns in harmless fun. They realize they can mold kids from day one to eventually vote AGAINST the 2nd amendment and lick their master's heels for them banning guns.

Acting afraid to argue social issues, sticking only to fi, is unbelievably stupid in the long run. You cannot so fear Akin you stop clearly showing your moral values and logic on specific issues are the way to go for the general public. Leftists argue even unpopular social issues (for them) without apology and total patience that if they keep pounding away for years, eventually their combined efforts will flip polls and they will incrementally control the dialogue and culture. They did not get that way by accident. They lost repeatedly on "ghey marriage" ballots. They tried 103 times since the 1st 102 times they lost. They went to court and shopped for judges who wanted to win at any cost. They eventually in a short period of time won the entire ball game. If it had been reversed, all the fi cons would have said long before now that "we need to stop demanding marriage for gheys, it's a losing issue at the polls, look at Gallup and the bill results in the states, how stupid can you get!" And we, make no mistake, because of our split opinions from fi-cons and libertarians, etc. would NEVER have won if WE had been the side fighting FOR ghey marriage. It's easy to see why. The left is totally relentless. They never take no for an answer.

At the end of the day, it's about the type of society you want and know is healthy to live in for yourself and children. So-cons get it. And no, we are NOT mere reversed versions of liberals, looking to run everyone's lives. We just know some things are proven by history to actually keep gov. small. When a neutral attitude exists across the board, it fails in praxis. Somebody has to pay for all the irresponsibility. And most even on the religious spectrum of the so-cons (and not all so-cons are religious, believe it or not) only have a few issues like abortion and such that they think cannot be left alone. The social liberal left not only wants to spend into oblivion, disregards property rights, but also wants to regulate every aspect of your life down to light bulbs and toilet trap sizes. Most so-cons have a modified libertarian streak in them to begin with, anyway.

Right now the NFL situation is a trial balloon for more social experimentation. Leftists will use as a tool to divide depending upon who will or won't take him, and how long it takes, to suggest the league is homophobic, etc. Then, they will bring up the Incognito case to claim they need sensitivity training. They will claim it's a hostile workplace. And on and on. Soon the NFL will be a wasteland of PC, unrecognizable. Many on the left want football banned anyway, since many of them hate sports and are exploiting the concussion story and never miss a chance now to tell people brain injuries are automatic from just playing.

The left views each of these tactical battles as a step in their goal of silencing dissenting views, punishing them so much so cleverly that they can even avoid admitting speech codes de facto are in place. Then they can say it's only a violation of that according to the Constitution IF the gov. ITSELF bans speech directly. But when NBA plays kid and say "no homo" and face fines and obliteration in the press, soon nobody can even criticize homosexuality by merely opposing SMM or personally disagreeing with it.

Russia's law on limiting the propaganda options to children may have troubling free speech aspects that are hard to thread the rope with, but at least Putin and company RECOGNIZE their culture is being undermined, and they are trying to stop it by hardball action.

We could use a little more of that kind of spirit here in the states...

Posted by: Mehow at February 15, 2014 01:07 PM (2bVKF)

702 Mehow is very wise. 'Moderate' leftists never denounce hardline commies like our 'libertarians' badmouth social cons. This is why we lose elections.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 16, 2014 12:27 AM (rnV3B)

703 And that's precisely right fromabroad!

One big factor of the success of the left in America is that their tool party the Dems consist of different constituency groups, each having somewhat different fingers in the entitlement pie, but none of the pieces of their electoral puzzle base openly attack the other-each is happy they are getting their part of the return on investment.

Effectively they are all acting as on united front, sharing the common goal of winning since they all think they are getting a ROI if the collective wins.

In contrast, the GOP has so-cons, fi-cons, and mods, almost strung out on their individualism, they fight intra-party. Particularly fi-cons and some mods want the so-cons, without whom winning elections will be tough for the right wing, to sit at the back of the bus an shut up, at most pandering to their language and offering nothing of substance in terms of doing anything when they get in office.

Backing down and apologizing for your own side's factions is losing strategy. Just because Akin had foot in mouth does not mean you allow the left to dominate the culture and avoid "social issues" (all issues are social issues anyway, including so-called economic ones, BTW) by shutting up and apologizing for your party's own guys, you attack 24-7 the enemy in unison. That way, you have a better chance to define the message and narrative.

I'm a so-con. But I am not trying force fi-cons out of the party. I do not highlight their stumbles and give aid and comfort to the proggies. I do not demand they receive no ROI on election wins. Of course, I'm not arguing so-cons are perfect angels to the other constituent groups for winning GOP elective office, etc.

Folks like roadrunner and those on sites for polls like Hedgehog Report are always *blaming* the so-cons instead of uniting, so the GOP loses by force since a house divided cannot stand. Libertarians have some clear degree of shared general insight into smaller gov, but also are taking their toys and going home by supporting the Ron Pauls which further fragments the votes and causes mod GOP Establishment types to win primaries such as Romney.

The so-cons are mad at them, so they take their toys and go home.

The result is Dems win, and now we have sensitivity training coming over homosexuals and soon you will not be able to even disagree over their lifestyle...

Posted by: Mehow at February 16, 2014 07:17 AM (2bVKF)

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