January 23, 2014

Global Warming Scientist Cross-examined Under Oath [2nd Amendment Texan]
— Guest Blogger

In the off chance you morons don’t regularly stalk the Superior Court of the District of Columbia in search of noteworthy cases, Professor Michael Mann of Penn State filed suit in 2012 against, among others, National Review and Mark Steyn for something Mark wrote and NR published on its website (full disclosure – I am an occasional contributor to several publications, including NRO’s Bench Memos). As NR’s capable lawyers have confirmed, there seems to be no case here.

But even if there was a case, who in their right mind would want Mark Steyn as a defendant? He beat the rap when hauled up in front of the Canadian Thought Police Human Rights Commission and thatÂ’s the guy they pick to bully into silence? It brings to mind the thousands of air traffic controllers who were fired for walking off the job in the middle of a labor dispute with President Reagan: Even though we have no legal case, lets try to intimidate the only president who has served as head of a labor union. He wonÂ’t know how to negotiate with a union and will buckle under the pressure! We canÂ’t lose!

This suit has echoes of a similar controversy in Australia. Four scientists who had not been persuaded by Mr. MannÂ’s hockey stick asserted thus:

The scientific community is now so polarised on the controversial issue of dangerous global warming that proper due diligence on the matter can only be achieved where competent scientific witnesses are cross-examined under oath and under the strictest rules of evidence.

I never dreamed we would be able to get Mr. Mann to actually take the stand. NRÂ’s Rich Lowry nicely summarized this line of thinking:

Usually, you donÂ’t welcome a nuisance lawsuit, because itÂ’s a nuisance. It consumes time. It costs money. But this is a different matter in light of one word: discovery.

If Mann sues us, the materials we will need to mount a full defense will be extremely wide-ranging. So if he files a complaint, we will be doing more than fighting a nuisance lawsuit; we will be embarking on a journalistic project of great interest to us and our readers.

It appears from the complaint that Mr. Mann is demanding a jury trial. He might get it yet – after 18 months of procedural absurdity the judge refused to dismiss the case. For 1st Amendment legal observers, this is the cue to get the popcorn because there is a smack down coming. In fact, charging people to have their photo taken outside the courthouse with Mr. Steyn could be part his fundraising to cover the crushing legal costs of defending the 1st Amendment (Mr. Steyn is being represented by different counsel than the other parties involved). I don’t know if the DC Superior Court allows cameras, but I for one would pay to watch Mr. Mann being cross examined about global cooling or global warming or climate change or climate collapse or whatever it is being called this week.

If science has proven that global warming is real, that its man’s fault, and that man can fix it, why keep the proof a secret? In 2004, a scientist trying to recreate the data behind this hockey stick and other global warming claims met a brick wall by the keeper of the data. Climatic Research Unit’s Phil Jones famously responded to the request by asking “Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?”

So it seems that the exercise of independently verifying a scientific discovery has turned into just taking the scientistsÂ’ word for it. Because Science. And also, Shut up.

Let the discovery begin.

The 2nd Amendment Texan writes and speaks about energy security, among other things, and has experience in both the traditional and renewable energy fields. You can follow him on Twitter: @MichaelJames357

Posted from draft by Andy

Posted by: Guest Blogger at 06:03 AM | Comments (317)
Post contains 669 words, total size 5 kb.

1 * hic *

Posted by: Justin Beaver at January 23, 2014 06:04 AM (Dwehj)

2 Oh, this is gonna be gooooood.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:08 AM (DrWcr)

3 I wanna be the popcorn vendor for this one...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at January 23, 2014 06:08 AM (lJaja)

4 Ahhhhh!!!! My car says its 62!!!!! Blasting the heater now May have to go home and hide under the comforter

Posted by: Navycopjoe at January 23, 2014 06:08 AM (9cjF1)

5 I like curved poles. Mmmmmmmm.

Posted by: Michael Mann at January 23, 2014 06:09 AM (Aif/5)

6 Doesn't the AOSHQ style guide require Dr. Manford Mann to be referred to as Nobel-winning Dr. Mann?

Posted by: Fritz at January 23, 2014 06:09 AM (UzPAd)

7 “Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?”

-----


Well.... how hard would it be to hide the tree rings from seven trees in the Ukraine???

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:10 AM (nELVU)

8 Mmmmm.  Steyn.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:10 AM (ZKzrr)

9 I can't drive 155.

Posted by: Justin Beaver at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (Dwehj)

10 note: Steyn has separated himself from the National Review who wished to take the low road. http://www.steynonline.com/6025/trial-and-error

Posted by: lonetown at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (ScVPC)

11 Four out of five tree rings surveyed were rejected.

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (AO9UG)

12 Discovery is a bitch.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (gHDMy)

13 http://youtu.be/cQ5ZIP82FDI



Posted by: EC at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (doBIb)

14

Too bad it won't be on Pay Per View.

 

 

 

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (PFy0L)

15 Typed out a nice, long comment and boom, hit the phone banned ISP. Bah.

Posted by: DangerGirl Telecommunications at January 23, 2014 06:11 AM (KuUy9)

16
*** Throws a sub zero ice ball at NCJ.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:12 AM (nELVU)

17 As long as Mann's sex tape isn't leaked, it's all good.

Posted by: eman at January 23, 2014 06:12 AM (AO9UG)

18 I don't know why I feel the need to sue people who write negative things about my research.

Posted by: Michael Mann (small peen) at January 23, 2014 06:13 AM (Aif/5)

19 What are the odds it'll be delayed due to blizzard conditions at the courthouse?

Posted by: Navycopjoe at January 23, 2014 06:13 AM (9cjF1)

20 Bring on the discovery!Ah,who are we kidding,all the revelations so far ( and the obvious evidence against) have done nothing to end this scam.

Posted by: steevy at January 23, 2014 06:14 AM (zqvg6)

21 In the off chance you morons don¡¯t regularly stalk the Superior Court of the District of Columbia in search of noteworthy cases, Sorry. It was my week off. Thank you though.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:14 AM (xZxMD)

22 Mann will drop the case before anyone sits down in the courtroom.

Posted by: Dang at January 23, 2014 06:14 AM (MNq6o)

23 Mann looks like a pigman.

Posted by: steevy at January 23, 2014 06:14 AM (zqvg6)

24 Oh, goody. It's cases like these that almost make me wish I were a lawyer. Almost.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:15 AM (0HooB)

25 >>Doesn't the AOSHQ style guide require Dr. Manford Mann to be referred to as Nobel-winning Dr. Mann? "Nobel" "winning" "Dr." "Mann" would work.

Posted by: Mama AJ at January 23, 2014 06:15 AM (SUKHu)

26

http://tinyurl.com/m4lne4k

 

For MPPPP or anyone else who needs to lower the stress.  (ocean sounds)

Posted by: Infidel at January 23, 2014 06:15 AM (6bvBO)

27 Doesn't the AOSHQ style guide require Dr. Manford Mann to be referred to as Nobel-winning Dr. Mann? Posted by: Fritz at January 23, 2014 10:09 AM (UzPAd) Don't forget 'And His Nitty Gritty Warming-Earth Band.'

Posted by: --- at January 23, 2014 06:15 AM (MMC8r)

28 12 Discovery is a bitch. Posted by: Golfman in NC at January 23, 2014 10:11 AM (gHDMy) And the History channel has gone way downhill

Posted by: MikeH at January 23, 2014 06:15 AM (136wp)

29
So.....  Mr Mann......  please give us your view on the effects of the climate on human emotions vis a vis human interaction.


"When the Quinn the Eskimo gets here, everybody's gonna jump for joy."

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:16 AM (nELVU)

30 What are the odds it'll be delayed due to blizzard conditions seven snowflakes at the courthouse?

FIFY.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:16 AM (ZKzrr)

31 And the History channel has gone way downhill Posted by: MikeH at January 23, 2014 10:15 AM (136wp) And way way way to many commercials

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2014 06:16 AM (t3UFN)

32 Blinded by the light. Wrapped up like a douche, another commie in the night. 

Posted by: Manfred Mann at January 23, 2014 06:17 AM (Dwehj)

33

>>>Oh, this is gonna be gooooood.

 

How good?

Well, if there are NO news stories, then that's really really good.

Posted by: Bigby's Semaphore Hands at January 23, 2014 06:17 AM (3ZtZW)

34

note: Steyn has separated himself from the National Review who wished to take the low road.


---------------------

 

At the link  Steyn mentions the big reason why I stopped donating to NR years ago:

 

"I'm not the first to discover too late that the American court system is no place for wee unsuspecting foreigners. Although I was the only one on the NR side who's actually won a free-speech battle (and so decisively that the law was eventually repealed), I was prevailed upon through the course of last year to leave it to the experts. The result is that we blew through half a million bucks, and have nothing to show for it - other than what even Judge Weisberg calls a "convoluted procedural history" that utterly buried the real issues at the heart of the case."

 

So people who donated to the legal defense fund for NR basically had their money wasted by a strategy that was trying to sweep this whole thing aside instead of nailing Mann to the wall.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 06:18 AM (PFy0L)

35 The best part of all this so far is how "Piltdown" Mann asserted that Steyn and NR had insulted him, a "Nobel laureate".

Which his counsel had to hastily withdraw, after the Nobel Committee confirmed that the Nobel in question, which had been awarded to the IPCC of which Mann is a member, in no way authorizes individual members of the IPCC to refer to themselves as Nobel laureates.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 06:18 AM (gqT4g)

36 "Global Warm Mongers" - Steyn

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 06:18 AM (aDwsi)

37 Anyway, one of the great things about the scientific method is that it is (supposed to be) open to peer review at every stage of the process. That includes, hypotheses, observation, procedure, data and data collection, analyses and conclusions. Obviously, Dr Mann and his colleagues either don't believe in the scientific method as process(which should invalidate their findings) or they have something to hide.

Posted by: DangerGirl Telecommunications at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (KuUy9)

38 Dr. Mann, did you or did you not win a Nobel prize?; Dr Mann please explain how you data could possibly be correct with the Tijlander data upside down?   How many trees in the Yamal Peninsula were used in your study? Do you know what red noise is?  Do you have any financial interests in carbon traders, alternative energy or transportation companie?, or other green ventures?  Just a start.

Posted by: Jean at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (4JkHl)

39 Doesn't the AOSHQ style guide require Dr. Manford Mann to be referred to as Nobel-winning Dr. Mann? Doo Wa Diddy Dum Diddy Doo?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (xZxMD)

40 "When the Quinn the Eskimo gets here, everybody's gonna jump for joy."

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 10:16 AM (nELVU)

 

You ain't seen nothin' like the Mighty Quinn!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (DrWcr)

41 climatedepot.com dump yeah, this is interesting Do they really think they have a case? Do they think just "taking someone to court" will cleanse their lies and turn enough people from the truth? If we take them to court, enough people will believe us mentality. Are they creating this "limbo" of thought to push something critical through, right now, even though they know they will lose? So much money is invested in this new voodoo. Or, is it really just intimidation (which I tend to agree with; we are seeing this everywhere, now, in all issues where someone is losing the argument)? Mann's reputation has been shattered, as the university in the UK was. They need a way to crawl out. And, a lot of money has been put on hold, or retracted due to the truth coming out. In the end, it's sad it has come to this. Money laundering and a thug power vacuum sucking out every brain cell of the human race.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (IXrOn)

42 35 The best part of all this so far is how "Piltdown" Mann asserted that Steyn and NR had insulted him, a "Nobel laureate". Which his counsel had to hastily withdraw, after the Nobel Committee confirmed that the Nobel in question, which had been awarded to the IPCC of which Mann is a member, in no way authorizes individual members of the IPCC to refer to themselves as Nobel laureates. Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 10:18 AM (gqT4g) White devils speak with forked tongue about me too!

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (136wp)

43

>>>Mann looks like a pigman.

 

[ha ha charade you are]

 

OK, never mind.

 

I kinda want Ace to do a anti-Longbow post in french

Posted by: Bigby's Semaphore Hands at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (3ZtZW)

44 This is a very large fault line in the Democrat party that--if there were a party interested in being an opposition party--could be easily exploited.

Toward the end of the fracking article in the news dump, they mentioned how all of the unions were in favor of the LPG export terminal because of the jobs and all the leftists were against it because "psy-ience."

As I recall, no Republican was out there talking about "all the unions--the machinists, the metal workers, the teamsters--of working men and women who are in favor of Keystone."
Instead, they were always talking about this abstract "hundreds of jobs" it would create.

Why is it so hard for the Stupid Party to put a face on the policies it seeks to advance--or oppose?

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 06:19 AM (VjL9S)

45 The best part of all this so far is how "Piltdown" Mann asserted that Steyn and NR had insulted him, a "Nobel laureate".

Heh.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at January 23, 2014 06:20 AM (Dwehj)

46 Actually, this should've been done years ago. Think of the trillions of dollars we could've saved.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:20 AM (0HooB)

47 Blinded by the light. Wrapped up like a douche, another commie in the night.

Posted by: Manfred Mann at January 23, 2014 10:17 AM (Dwehj)

 

Dammit, almost spit out my coffee!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:20 AM (DrWcr)

48 Michael Mann walks  over  a  scientific  bar  set  really, really  low.

Posted by: polynikes at January 23, 2014 06:20 AM (m2CN7)

49 ManBearPig is real! Cereal, you guys!

Posted by: Al Gore at January 23, 2014 06:20 AM (DrWcr)

50
Heh..... everytime Mann says something stupid..... defense should say "Watt's Up" with that???

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:21 AM (nELVU)

51 In the off chance you morons donÂ’t regularly stalk the Superior Court of the District of Columbia in search of noteworthy cases
.............
We think that's Gabe who stalks the Superior Court.. but we're not sure because of the disguise...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 23, 2014 06:21 AM (f9c2L)

52 We must bear in mind that the heart of Mann's suit is Libel. This is going to be stickier than some might imagine. However much we may agree, a jury faced with “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change” (as Steyn remarked) might be inclined to think Steyn went overboard.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 06:23 AM (aDwsi)

53 Reality is knocking, will the echo chamber open the door? Of course, National Review is sure that Mann has no case, but what matters is a court's opinion, not the defendants. Clearly Steyn's allegations of fraud are contrary to fact, and the malice in comparing Mann to Jerry Sandusky is evident too. So just like Romney's "surprising" loss, Steyn may get slapped in the face by reality too. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/09/03/2564711/climate-scientist-mann-defamation-case/ " In addition, whether the NR Defendants induced the EPA to investigate Plaintiff is not critical to this analysis because it is not disputed that the NR Defendants knew that the EPA and several reputable bodies had investigated Plaintiff and concluded that his work was sound. The evidence before the Court indicates the likelihood that “actual malice” is present in the NR Defendants’ conduct...But beside Penn State, Mann has also been exonerated by a veritable avalanche of other bodies, including the EPA, the National Science Foundation Inspector General, the U.K. House of Commons, the University of East Anglia, and the Department of Commerce Inspector General."

Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 06:24 AM (L+Mit)

54 Mann will drop the case before anyone sits down in the courtroom. Posted by: Dang at January 23, 2014 10:14 AM (MNq6o) I have my doubts. As Ezra Levant in Canada keeps pointing out, there is a lot of money and influence behind the eco-industry -- especially from the Tides foundation, which funds green activism, and will probably throw it's money and weight behind Mann & Co. as well. It's deep pockets. Almost like Saudi oil influence..

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 23, 2014 06:24 AM (IXrOn)

55 Oh, ho, ho...it's magic!

Posted by: Pilot Mann at January 23, 2014 06:24 AM (Dwehj)

56 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:24 AM (PYAXX)

57 Whew, it's chilly!  Are you sure the planet's really warming up?

Posted by: First Amendment at January 23, 2014 06:25 AM (DrWcr)

58 This could be our future...

http://is.gd/cWar5w

...sadly, it doesn't reach the Beltway mob.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at January 23, 2014 06:25 AM (lJaja)

59 So, is TommyVee that rarest of rarities, an articulate troll?

Posted by: Grey Fox at January 23, 2014 06:25 AM (vPvKb)

60
.....  and the calliope crashed to ground...

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:26 AM (nELVU)

61 It appears from the complaint that Mr. Mann is demanding a jury trial. Heh. So did Oscar Wilde.

Posted by: rickl at January 23, 2014 06:26 AM (zoehZ)

62

I'm sure swearing in on a Bible will ensure he tells the truth...

 

Perhaps we should have  him  swear to Algore with his hand on a copy of  Earth  in the Balance

Posted by: Icedog at January 23, 2014 06:26 AM (2zsKz)

63 Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 23, 2014 10:24 AM (IXrOn) I disagree- for the very reasons you cite. Mann will back down *because* of the money & influence behind the eco-industry. If it gets proven in court that "everything that guy just said is bullshit," they'll take a huge loss. Huge. So as it gets down to time, that influence will be brought to bear on Mann to step down. Then he can claim "the deep pockets of NRO and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy ensured that I did not get the justice I sought..." and keep lying.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:26 AM (PYAXX)

64 57 -- FA -- Get set for more...

http://is.gd/SL05d0

Posted by: CPT. Charles at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (lJaja)

65 Clearly Steyn's allegations of fraud are contrary to fact

Meth is a helluva drug.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (ZKzrr)

66 Doesn't the AOSHQ style guide require Dr. Manford Mann to be referred to as Nobel-winning Dr. Mann?

Posted by: Fritz at January 23, 2014 10:09 AM (UzPAd)

No, it's "Dr. 'Piltdown' Mann"

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop posting from work at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (T6MoX)

67 90% of new wells in America are fracked. Because those kinds of deposits, while expensive to produce, are what's left. It's not going away or everyone is going to be quite cold.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (1Y+hH)

68 59 So, is TommyVee that rarest of rarities, an articulate troll? Posted by: Grey Fox at January 23, 2014 10:25 AM (vPvKb) Possibly but considering his dislike for Romney, he got burned in the hash dept.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (bCEmE)

69 So people who donated to the legal defense fund for NR basically had their money wasted by a strategy that was trying to sweep this whole thing aside instead of nailing Mann to the wall. I own an edition of The Family Legal Advisor that's older than I am. In it, there's a cartoon of two people haggling over a bull with a lawyer in the middle: each one ends up holding a horn while the lawyer walks away with the rest of the bull.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:27 AM (0HooB)

70 "As Ezra Levant in Canada keeps pointing out, there is a lot of money and influence behind the eco-industry -- especially from the Tides foundation, which funds green activism, and will probably throw it's money and weight behind Mann & Co. as well."

Tides are up to their elbows in all kinds of progtardedness.

And they throw around some seriously big money.

They are an entirely suitable retort whenever you hear a liberal begin to blather about the supposedly unprecedented financial influence upon politics of the Koch brothers.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 06:28 AM (gqT4g)

71 As a consensus to allow the Keystone XL Pipeline from Canada draws closer, the claws get longer and sharper.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 23, 2014 06:28 AM (IXrOn)

72 Just two teaspoons a day will cure whatever ails you. It will make you faster, stronger, smarter and will give you the vision of an eagle.

Posted by: Michael Mann's Magical Tonic at January 23, 2014 06:28 AM (Aif/5)

73 This could be the equivalent of the Scopes Monkey Trial. Popcorn, at the ready.

Posted by: AMDG at January 23, 2014 06:28 AM (t7OO0)

74 I'm sure swearing in on a Bible will ensure he tells the truth... Perhaps we should have him swear to Algore with his hand on a copy of Earth in the Balance There's a rule for lawyers- never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer. That's what discovery is about. What that means is that if Mann lies under oath, he'll be caught. I'm fairly certain that Steyn & NRO would pitch a fit to ensure he was charged with perjury at that point.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:28 AM (PYAXX)

75 I am so sick and tired of global warming, not to mention cold

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2014 06:29 AM (t3UFN)

76 Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2014 10:29 AM (t3UFN) I would love me some global warming! 100 degree days in March? Sign me the F up!

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:30 AM (PYAXX)

77 //charging people to have their photo taken outside the courthouse with Mr. Steyn could be part his fundraising// +1

Posted by: stutterk at January 23, 2014 06:30 AM (95gQx)

78 Didn't Mann say he wanted to or would kick Pat Michaels` ass. I would love to be Pats friend at that confrontation. Get me some Mann ass.

Posted by: rightlysouthern at January 23, 2014 06:30 AM (uOxBm)

79 Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 10:24 AM (L+Mit) I wouln't rely on the EPA, green-head. It has brought 3 suits against fracking and had to drop each before finishing discovery. That's because their "facts" turned out to be non-existent once examined.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 23, 2014 06:30 AM (1Y+hH)

80 I disagree- for the very reasons you cite. Mann will back down *because* of the money & influence behind the eco-industry. If it gets proven in court that "everything that guy just said is bullshit," they'll take a huge loss. Huge. So as it gets down to time, that influence will be brought to bear on Mann to step down. Then he can claim "the deep pockets of NRO and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy ensured that I did not get the justice I sought..." and keep lying. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 10:26 AM (PYAXX) It's easy to buy off and/or threaten SC Justices, these days.

Posted by: John Roberts at January 23, 2014 06:31 AM (IXrOn)

81

 Get me some Mann ass.

 

Ooo, baby!

Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at January 23, 2014 06:31 AM (DrWcr)

82 The only stuff I read I attach any credence to seems to point to cooling. Which would be very bad.

Posted by: backhoe at January 23, 2014 06:31 AM (ULH4o)

83 Clearly Steyn's allegations of fraud are contrary to fact, and the malice in comparing Mann to Jerry Sandusky is evident too.

Evident?  Srsly?  How so? 

You have actual evidence supporting that contention?  No?  Didn't think so. 

See, proof, not the opinion of an internet troll is what's required here.  So unless you have video of Mark Steyn in his secret underground lair plotting with malice (actual malice!) to trash Mann's work, you got nothing.

Malice is very difficult to prove in libel/slander cases.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:31 AM (JpC1K)

84 Posted by: John Roberts at January 23, 2014 10:31 AM (IXrOn) Civil, not criminal court, yes? SC virtually never takes those cases.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:32 AM (PYAXX)

85 Mann may or may not  prevail.     Making an indirect comparison to another flawed character is a very weak cause of action for libel especially if that comparison is based on  a set of facts.    In anyevent,  win or lose,  the point is that discovery and direct testimony will  bring out the fact that Mann is a liar as much as Sandusky was a liar and hider of the truth.   If the jury wants  to find in his favor,  it won't be the first or last time a jury renders a tragically flawed decision.

Posted by: polynikes at January 23, 2014 06:32 AM (m2CN7)

86 "Mr. Mann, can you tell us one thing that would demonstrate to you that AGW is false? Anything?"

Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2014 06:32 AM (POpqt)

87 That's because their "facts" turned out to be non-existent once examined.

That's what happens when facts collide with ideology in a court.

As Mann is about to find out.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:32 AM (JpC1K)

88 This is going to be stickier than some might imagine. However much we may agree, a jury faced with “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change� (as Steyn remarked) might be inclined to think Steyn went overboard. At least he didn't call him subhuman. Whew!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:33 AM (xZxMD)

89 You have actual evidence supporting that contention?

Testimony of co-conspirators is totally evidence, or something.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:33 AM (ZKzrr)

90 I wouldn't be celebrating this yet. Steyn is going to be held to the same rules as all other defendents as far as testimony goes. It won't be the no holds barred discourse he usually dishes out in op eds(which I am a fan of his). This is the DC court after all. Packed with ultra libs who believe the same nonsense Mann does. I personally think this is going to be an uphill climb. Sorry to rain on the parade, but I am very concerned about this.

Posted by: Jen at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (4t/Y9)

91 Civil, not criminal court, yes? SC virtually never takes those cases. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 10:32 AM (PYAXX) lol you made my point which was my point off to make bread and start some stuffed cabbage... /wave

Posted by: John Roberts at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (IXrOn)

92 53 Tommy Vee, Hey TP! How ya doing? The place needed a libtard troll cocksucker glad you dropped by. Mann's HorseHockey stick is a fucking fraud and the East Anglia e-mail dump show the conspiracy. Fuckhead moonbats have a solution desperately looking for a problem. Hot, cold, wet, or dry somehow the answer is *always* undermining inexpensive energy, industry, and increasing taxes. Have a fucking day.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (TE35l)

93 It will give you the seductive prowess of Lothario, the speaking abilities of Lincoln, the writing abilities of Twain. The possibilities are endless with just two teaspoons a day!

Posted by: Michael Mann's Magical Tonic at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (Aif/5)

94 There's a lot of snow in DC today, right? Hahahahaha!

Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (POpqt)

95 Clearly Steyn's allegations of fraud are contrary to fact, How are they "contrary to fact?" Did or did not Mann and his allies try to "hide the decline?" Hiding (not just "not providing" but actively seeking to hide) evidence which could help determine whether or not to engage on a multi-trillion dollar enterprise would be fraud, would it not?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (PYAXX)

96 I grew up a poor black child in a trailer court.

Posted by: Mann, Michael Mann, man at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (ZS1LI)

97 He made the Sandusky comparison because mann was also at Penn State.He never suggested Mann was a pederast.

Posted by: steevy at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (zqvg6)

98 It's easy to buy off and/or threaten SC Justices, these days. Posted by: John Roberts Two Irish kids. Cheap.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:34 AM (xZxMD)

99 I put a cold spell on you
Because you're mine
Stop the things you do
Heheheh
I ain't lyin'

Posted by: Nobel-Laureate Manfred Mann at January 23, 2014 06:35 AM (UzPAd)

100 O/T Signing up for the Twitter is worth it just to get pat Sajak's tweets. Dude brings it. Every. Day. Pat Sajak ‏@patsajak 8m Bio update: took penicillin, didn't discover it. Admired Gandhi, but never arm wrestled him. Dad was Polish, not Comanche.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2014 06:35 AM (Bd6GP)

101 Mommy's calling me but I don't want to go downstairs.

Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 06:35 AM (Aif/5)

102 Testimony of co-conspirators is totally evidence, or something.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 10:33 AM (ZKzrr)

Co-conspirators.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (JpC1K)

103 90 Jen, It's another good canary in the coal mine. I figure it is 60/40 the court goes into "protect the AGW con" mode.... My dream outcome would be SCotUS declaring AGW a religion.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (TE35l)

104 The result is that we blew through half a million bucks, and have nothing to show for it - other than what even Judge Weisberg calls a "convoluted procedural history" that utterly buried the real issues at the heart of the case."
==========
Which is a legitimate and common trial strategy if--IF--you've any doubt of your case; wear them down, get them to settle.

Typical defense attorneys.

Wonder if Styen filed any counter-claims. If he did, Mann dismissing his case doesn't make those go away.
If I was, I sure as hell would have--at the very least a counterclaim for sanctions for bringing a baseless suit.
And since he is/was an employee of a governmental unit, I'd probably stretch and throw in a 1st Amendment civil rights violation.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (VjL9S)

105 Now that was a great post. And I'm freezing my ass off here.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (4Mv1T)

106 The other less well remarked aspect of this case is that it was initially heard by Clinton appointee Judge Natalia Combs-Greene, who is apparently one of the dimmest bulbs on the bench, and demonstrated a less than firm grasp of the facts of the case.

She couldn't even manage the elementary cognitive task of keeping the alleged actions of the individual defendants straight.

Combs-Greene has now taken early retirement, but the confusion she managed to create during her brief involvement is considerable.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (gqT4g)

107

I can sue if I want to

I can leave my brains behind

If the ice don't melt

Well, if it don't melt then it's

No friend of mine.

Posted by: Mann Without Hats at January 23, 2014 06:36 AM (zF6Iw)

108 Another Oscar Wilde quote Steyn could use: "Why was I born with such contemporaries?"

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 23, 2014 06:37 AM (QE1xU)

109 This is going to be stickier than some might imagine. However much we may agree, a jury faced with “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change (as Steyn remarked) might be inclined to think Steyn went overboard. Huh? What does "overboard" have to do with it. Despite what we say about people, juries tend to take their responsibilities fairly seriously- and going "overboard" with an insult is not defamation. No, I tend to think this is fairly open-and-shut, and that (like the EPA and their anti-fracking lawsuits) Mann will drop this before discovery is complete.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:37 AM (PYAXX)

110 "Mr. Mann, can you tell us one thing that would demonstrate to you that AGW is false? Anything?"

Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2014 10:32 AM (POpqt)

 

Indeed.  Global warming is their answer for everything. Hot?  Global warming.  Cold?  Global warming.  Hurricanes? Snow?  Global warming.  Drought? Global warming.  The heartbreak of psoriasis?  Global warming.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:37 AM (DrWcr)

111 There's a lot of snow in DC today, right? Hahahahaha!

Unpossible!  "Snow is so scarce today that most Virginia children probably don't own a sled."

http://is.gd/IHgNVK

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:38 AM (ZKzrr)

112 Fuckhead moonbats have a solution desperately looking for a problem.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 23, 2014 10:34 AM (TE35l)

------


The solution is "take everybody's money".


Good look finding a problem for that.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 23, 2014 06:38 AM (nELVU)

113 Malice is very difficult to prove in libel/slander cases. Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 10:31 AM (JpC1K) I can't speak to the fraud claims because I forget what exactly they were, but the Sandusky one's certainly cannot be seen as Malice. They fall clearly into the "metaphor/hyperbole" part of the 1st amendment. So sayeth the guys at Volokh and Popehat as well IIRC. If the DC Anti-SLAPP laws had worked as written, Mann would already be out a ton of money and kicked out of the courts system.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:38 AM (GaqMa)

114 AGW? Very entertaining.

Posted by: Zombie Karl Popper at January 23, 2014 06:38 AM (JQuNB)

115

It's  a shame Michael Crichton has passed away.  He'd enjoy this one.

Posted by: Icedog at January 23, 2014 06:39 AM (G0ITZ)

116 What's most amazing is that Mann's principal attorney is a guy whose day job is lobbying. In New Jersey. On its face, that's laughable. He should get real lawyers at least.

Posted by: MTF at January 23, 2014 06:39 AM (F58x4)

117 Indeed. Global warming is theiranswer for everything.Hot? Global warming. Cold? Global warming. Hurricanes? Snow? Global warming. Drought? Global warming. The heartbreak of psoriasis? Global warming. You know... there's one experiment that would settle this conclusively. If there were no more humanity, we could judge what effect that has on the environment. I say we start with the greenies- since they're the ones so sure we're doing damage to begin with.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:39 AM (PYAXX)

118 Despite what we say about people, juries tend to take their responsibilities fairly seriously- and going "overboard" with an insult is not defamation.

To a liberal, "Overboard" and "beyond the bounds of polite society" are terms that mean, "you don't agree with me."

As if that's a requirement for humanity.

Or something.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:39 AM (JpC1K)

119

The other less well remarked aspect of this case is that it was initially heard by Clinton appointee Judge Natalia Combs-Greene, who is apparently one of the dimmest bulbs on the bench, and demonstrated a less than firm grasp of the facts of the case.

 

----------

 

John Lott just wrote a fantastic book where he makes an interesting case...the trend toward nominating and confirming stupid judges is a feature, not a bug.  The power brokers don't want an independent judiciary thinking for themselves, but rather a pliable one easily led by the nose.

 

And I have to say, it's hard for me to disagree with him given the empirical evidence.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (eytER)

120 9 degrees and snowing in southern Colorado.

I feel the urge to burn some fossil fuels.

Posted by: wisenheimer at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (kidco)

121 87 Sean Bannion, Courts are singularly ill-equipped to adjudge science or tech and judges tend to defer to credentialism. Add in the court packing Ogabe and Reid engaged in and we may be about to get an overt lesson on unequal jurisprudence.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (TE35l)

122 Global warming is theiranswer for everything.Hot? Global warming. Cold? Global warming. Hurricanes? Snow? Global warming. Drought? Global warming. The heartbreak of psoriasis? Global warming The agony of defeat?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (xZxMD)

123 Ah, good ol' "ThinkProgress." Which is neither.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (VjL9S)

124 "Performance Art is the last refuge of the untalented." - TV's Andy Levy

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 06:40 AM (7ObY1)

125 >>So, is TommyVee that rarest of rarities, an articulate troll? Posted by: Grey Fox No, he is more a cut & paste kind of troll.

Posted by: Aviator at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (jSUU1)

126 I say we start with the greenies- since they're the ones so sure we're doing damage to begin with.

If the greens actually had the courage of their convictions, they'd all commit suicide.

So if they don't even believe their own shit, not really sure why the rest of us should.


Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (JpC1K)

127 In an off topic smack down of Angela Corey, Zimmermans second painting is her portrait. http://tinyurl.com/lndy26a The bitch will flip.

Posted by: UWP at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (2hQRj)

128 By the way, I am not in any way, shape, or form associated with KidCo.

Harry Reid owns that outfit.

Posted by: wisenheimer at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (kidco)

129 It's as cold as ice I'm willing to sacrifice my glove

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (7ObY1)

130 AGW? Very entertaining.

Posted by: Zombie Karl Popper at January 23, 2014 10:38 AM (JQuNB)

He's dead?  I thought he was still touring with Blues Traveler.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (DrWcr)

131 Well it's almost my shift at the glory hole, I'll catch you wingers later.

Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (Aif/5)

132 The solution is "take everybody's money". Good look finding a problem for that. Obamacare!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 06:41 AM (xZxMD)

133 127 He captured her very well.

Posted by: steevy at January 23, 2014 06:42 AM (zqvg6)

134 Not just depositions, but: 1) VIDEO depositions. I do expert testimony for lawyers every so often. I've been deposed. There's a trend towards doing these with video recording -- useful for the lawyers since they can review at their leisure and share with their team. Even better, they can USE the video during trial -- like, for example, to impeach the witness. If I'm deposing Mr. Mann I want to do a video deposition. 2) Interrogatories. These are questions the defense can pose to the plaintiffs (and vice versa) that the other side MUST answer. Questions can be stricken by a judge and a number will be, but the ones that survive can be gold. The answers are provided PRIOR to deposition so that lawyers have them when they depose people. If I'm defending Mr. Steyn I have pages and pages of interrogatories for Mr. Mann. Oh, and unless there's a settlement that seals all the records, the video, depositions, and interrogatories become part of the public record. What Ace could do with a video of Mr. Mann's deposition and a Wookie ... well, I shudder.

Posted by: Steve White at January 23, 2014 06:42 AM (D14J4)

135 Four out of five tree rings surveyed were rejected.
And I don't think any survey had anything more than 24 trees to begin with either so it's not like it was 10,000 trees from all over Asia.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at January 23, 2014 06:42 AM (vuh7l)

136 Ooooh, this IS going to be good.  I think I'll buy stock in Orville Redenbacher.

Posted by: no good deed at January 23, 2014 06:42 AM (vBhbc)

137 They fall clearly into the "metaphor/hyperbole" part of the 1st amendment. So sayeth the guys at Volokh and Popehat as well IIRC.

I know.  But...shhhhh....don't harsh their mellow.

I certainly looking forward to Mann's suit crashing and burning.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:42 AM (JpC1K)

138 131 Well it's almost my shift at the glory hole, I'll catch you wingers later. Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 10:41 AM (Aif/5) That's not all you're going to catch. But I'm sure 404Care has a plan for those STDs.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 06:43 AM (7ObY1)

139 Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 10:41 AM (JpC1K) I don't know if they'd all commit suicide- but they'd engage in actual violence (as, say, ELF does). Which would be almost as good, really, since then we could shoot back.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:43 AM (PYAXX)

140 If the greens actually had the courage of their convictions, they'd all commit suicide.

Their convictions would lead them to kill the rest of us.  Faster than they already are with their CAFE standards and their bans on producing oil for heating homes and their rolling blackouts from coal plant closures.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 06:43 AM (ZKzrr)

141 >>It's a shame Michael Crichton has passed away. He'd enjoy this one.

I bet he would be called as a witness.

And yes, I was also shoveling some of that global warming off my walk a few minutes ago.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2014 06:44 AM (POpqt)

142

Greetings from Sydney Down Under

 

Can't sleep as we've been deluged with sick people and cats this week -a worry - BIL in ICU after major heart surgery, another BIL has oesophageal varices and is bleeding so needs blood transfusion and MIL is crook with constant TIAs - 89 years old and not really a candidate for surgery plus my very favourite kitty is in cat ICU tonight after becoming very sick

However...

 

The debate rages on Down Under as well

 

Not being confident in tinying anything after a few flops

 

If anyone is interested in climate science fraud I recommend a couple of Aussie sites

Andrew Bolt's blog - just google/bing Andrew Bolt - he has been onto this con for many years and there are plenty of great posts on his blog

 

Tim Blair's blog - with a touch of humour added for your enjoyment

Posted by: aussie at January 23, 2014 06:44 AM (kNqWd)

143 In an off topic smack down of Angela Corey, Zimmermans second painting is her portrait.
http://tinyurl.com/lndy26a

The bitch will flip.

Posted by: UWP at January 23, 2014 10:41 AM (2hQRj)

 

It's not a bad likeness. 

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:44 AM (DrWcr)

144 Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 10:42 AM (JpC1K) I look at this, as well as other cases pending all over the US and I truly wonder if it will though. There seems to be no acknowledgement of the 1st Amendment anymore.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:44 AM (GaqMa)

145 I don't know if they'd all commit suicide- but they'd engage in actual violence (as, say, ELF does).


Nope!  Sorry.  Just using greenie logic here.

Mankind is a cancer.  Cancers must be eradicated.  They are part of mankind.

Ergo, they should kill themselves.

Syllogisms don't get much more basic than that.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:44 AM (JpC1K)

146 "John Lott just wrote a fantastic book where he makes an interesting case...the trend toward nominating and confirming stupid judges is a feature, not a bug."

Well, they certainly got what they were after with Combs-Greene.

The comments from those who have appeared before her are scathing.

http://www.therobingroom.com/dc/Judge.aspx?ID=3789

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 06:45 AM (gqT4g)

147 G'day, aussie!  Sorry to hear about the illnesses in the family. Best wishes for everyone's recovery (even the cat)!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:46 AM (DrWcr)

148 Looking forward to discovery on this issue as well as a formal inquiry into the events leading to the stranding of the Antarctic expedition ship Akademik Shokalskiy.

In a place like Antarctica, where one can die of exposure in less than 10 minutes, poor decisions can lead to all sorts of fatal mishaps.

Prof. Turney willfully disregarded orders from co-leader Mortimer to evacuate Hod. Islands thus endangering the lives of the crew and passengers on the expedition.

Posted by: 13times at January 23, 2014 06:46 AM (fGPLK)

149 Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 10:42 AM (JpC1K) I should clarify. I think if it went to higher courts the suite will eventually explode. But it shouldn't have to be that way.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:46 AM (GaqMa)

150 -6F with -35 windchill. I want to burn Mann just to warm up the atmosphere.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at January 23, 2014 06:46 AM (hpgw1)

151 Y'all see the backstory on the Amazing Zimmer-Man's Angela Corey painting? Zimmerman dedicated the painting to Ronald Thompson, a 65-year-old disabled veteran who is serving time in prison for firing two warning shots into the ground to protect an elderly neighbor from her grandson and three of his friends. Thompson was 62-years-old in September 2009 when he visited a friend of his, an elderly woman in Keystone Heights, Florida, at the womanÂ’s daughterÂ’s home. During his visit, his friendÂ’s 17-year-old grandson, who had been violent toward her in the past, came by with three friends, and wanted to go into his motherÂ’s home. Having been instructed by her daughter not to let him into the house, ThompsonÂ’s friend refused them entry. Her grandson began yelling and cursing at his grandmother. Events escalated to the point where Mr. Thompson felt his friend was in danger. He grabbed his pistol (for which he had a conceal-carry license) and fired two warning shots into the ground to scare off the 17-year-old. Thompson was charged with four counts of aggravated assault Â… Thompson was convicted. ThompsonÂ’s prosecutor: Angela Corey.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 06:46 AM (7ObY1)

152 There seems to be no acknowledgement of the 1st Amendment anymore.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 10:44 AM (GaqMa)

 

The First Amendment means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.

Posted by: Eric "Humpty Dumpty" Holder at January 23, 2014 06:47 AM (DrWcr)

153 did the same PSU administrator who cleared Sandusky clear Michael Mann? yes. case closed.

Posted by: X at January 23, 2014 06:47 AM (KHo8t)

154 -6F with -35 windchill. I want to burn Mann just to warm up the atmosphere.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at January 23, 2014 10:46 AM (hpgw1)

 

Render his body down for lamp oil, it'll last longer.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 06:48 AM (DrWcr)

155

 Events escalated to the point where Mr. Thompson felt his friend was in danger. He grabbed his pistol (for which he had a conceal-carry license) and fired two warning shots into the ground to scare off the 17-year-old.

 

----------

 

Gotta say, if the situation calls for firing a warning shot, it calls for firing an actual  stop-the-perp shot. 

 

 

 

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 06:48 AM (eytER)

156 The Humpty dance is your chance to do the hump!

Posted by: steevy at January 23, 2014 06:48 AM (zqvg6)

157 90 I wouldn't be celebrating this yet. Steyn is going to be held to the same rules as all other defendents as far as testimony goes. It won't be the no holds barred discourse he usually dishes out in op eds(which I am a fan of his).
=====
Sure he can.
He's also a witness.
And on the stand, he can say what he wants.

All that can stop him is the "objection!" of Mann's lawyers. But, the words are already in the jury's ears.
And if the answer is topical to the questions, the objection will be over-ruled.
So, they're not going to be able to shut Steyn up through mere procedure.
And a motion in limine to restrict what Steyn can say would be a 1st Amendment violation. 

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 06:49 AM (VjL9S)

158 There isn't enough popcorn in the world for this. 

Posted by: dfbaskwill at January 23, 2014 06:49 AM (fA3u5)

159 Huh? What does "overboard" have to do with it. Despite what we say about people, juries tend to take their responsibilities fairly seriously- and going "overboard" with an insult is not defamation. ------------------------------- It is their responsibility is to decide whether or not Steyn went 'overboard'. There is no reason to assume that they will not be just as concerned (more concerned, in fact) for Mann than Steyn, Mann being the offended party.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 06:49 AM (aDwsi)

160 Fuck Michael Mann!  Spotlight grapping bitch needs to get his own  con.

Posted by: Algore at January 23, 2014 06:49 AM (GYTqM)

161 Kindest regards, aussie. I have spent a lot of time with sick relatives in hospitals. It does wear you down.

Posted by: backhoe at January 23, 2014 06:50 AM (ULH4o)

162 did the same PSU administrator who cleared Sandusky clear Michael Mann? yes. case closed. Posted by: X at January 23, 2014 10:47 AM (KHo8t) I've said it before I'll say it again. Even if a totally unbiased group cleared Mann of Falsification or Fabrication, it doesn't mean he's innocent. He's clearly doing fundamentally dishonest science. It may be (but probably isn't) technically correct, but that doesn't make it right. There's lots of people doing that these days. Experiments designed to have a predetermined outcome. It's not Falsification or Fabrication, but it may as well be. Models are the worst for that, because you can basically build the model to whatever specs you want.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:50 AM (GaqMa)

163 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 10:44 AM (GaqMa) Well, unless you're a Democrat... Snark aside, the problem isn't that there's no regard for the 1st Amendment, but that we (as a society) allowed the 1st Amendment to get so muddled. There were no 1st Amendment issues with (for instance) the Phil Robertson interview, or with when the Dixie Chix got kicked off the national stage, or- quite frankly- with this. Defamation is not a 1st Amendment issue; it is a property rights issue. That is, the allegation behind a defamation claim is not "he's not allowed to say that," but that "he said that in order to harm me financially." That is "to infringe upon my Right to Property by making it artificially more difficult for me to accumulate same." The GOVERNMENT isn't involved here except as a (supposedly) neutral 3rd party, and the 1st Amendment only constrains the government.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:50 AM (PYAXX)

164 So people who donated to the legal defense fund for NR Republican Party basically had their money wasted by a strategy that was trying to sweep this whole thing aside away the issues instead of nailing Mann to the wall actually doing something that advances freedom. Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 10:18 AM (PFy0L) FIFY

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at January 23, 2014 06:51 AM (pginn)

165 It is their responsibility is to decide whether or not Steyn went 'overboard'. There is no reason to assume that they will not be just as concerned (more concerned, in fact) for Mann than Steyn, Mann being the offended party. Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 10:49 AM (aDwsi) No, it's not. There is no Overboard in the 1st Amendment until you hit Brandenberg incitement. I can compare my local DMV agent, hardware store owner, whatever to Kim Jun Un if I want, in all seriousness, and since it's clearly and opinion there's not much they can do about it. (Provided I make no false factual assertions).

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:53 AM (GaqMa)

166 This is exciting stuff. Readying the corn popper.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2014 06:53 AM (DmNpO)

167 In an off topic smack down of Angela Corey, Zimmermans second painting is her portrait. http://tinyurl.com/lndy26a The bitch will flip. Posted by: UWP at January 23, 2014 10:41 AM (2hQRj) It's nota bad likeness. --------------------- But is it libel?

Posted by: Lawfare Inc. at January 23, 2014 06:53 AM (aDwsi)

168 It is their responsibility is to decide whether or not Steyn went 'overboard'. No, it is their responsibility to decide if Steyn made knowingly false statements with the malicious intent of harming Mr. Mann's career. Whether he went "overboard" with an insult is not germane- unless the insult itself constituted defamation. Now, if they *do* find for the plaintiff, then the "overboard" portion would be germane when determining an award, but it is not germane to the verdict itself.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 06:54 AM (PYAXX)

169 "Events escalated to the point where Mr. Thompson felt his friend was in danger. He grabbed his pistol (for which he had a conceal-carry license) and fired two warning shots into the ground to scare off the 17-year-old."

Andrew Branca of "Law of Self-Defense" fame, who occasionally checks in here at the HQ, has a lot to say about the legality of warning shots in various jurisdictions.

Laypersons tend to assume that a warning shot is always OK and will not place them in any legal jeopardy, because hey, it's a major step down from deadly force, it's merely demonstrative, right?

Wrong!

Really, there should be clearly codified statute law regarding such warning shots, because there are times when they genuinely are a reasonable option to have open. But until such time as the law is cleaned up in that regard, fire such shots at your own potential criminal peril.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 06:55 AM (gqT4g)

170 tsr, whether Mann's science is good or bad is irrelevant. it's bad by the way. Steyn said Mann was investigated and cleared by the same guy who cleared Sandusky, which is a fact, leaving it to the reader to decide if that's a bad thing. Mann seems to think it is, so what is his point?

Posted by: X at January 23, 2014 06:55 AM (KHo8t)

171

147 insomniac

 

Thanks (fellow insomniac)!

The vet just called (it's 2.45am Friday morning here) to let me know kitty is comfortable and purring madly with all the attention - 1/2 hourly obs, drip insitu, heat cocoon and 2 hourly turns so she doesn't get pressure sores!

 

It's a wonderful pet hospital - the ICU looks just like the ICU my dear BIL is in right now

 

Great start to 2014..

Posted by: aussie at January 23, 2014 06:56 AM (kNqWd)

172 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 10:50 AM (PYAXX) It seems to me that some are clearly trying to extend libel laws into an arena of "offended me." Which, since the government does control libel laws, does bring the government into it. You are correct that Robertson or the Dixie Chicks were not 1A issues (and AFAIK there were no court actions in either of those.) But because this one is going through the courts it does become an 1A issue, and that's what I"m speaking about. It seems less and less that there's any respect for the 1st Amendment in the courts. They're willing to expand the definition of libel to pretty much anything and let any claims past.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:56 AM (GaqMa)

173 "Snow is so scarce today that most Virginia children probably don't own a sled." -RFK Jr. http://is.gd/IHgNVK Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 10:38 AM (ZKzrr) I need to keep that quote because A) It is a more recent damming quote than the 2000 article about how snow is becoming a thing of the past and B) said article was British and by a nobody. This is RFK Jr., a famous American Democrat that we can tie to lots of people.

Posted by: JJ Stone at January 23, 2014 06:56 AM (4oSMi)

174 Potentially the most useful discovery will be the emails on  public servers that Mann has successfully kept from public view with the collaboration of various institutions (including U.Va. and Penn State).  They likely contain conversations about how to specifically falsify data and graphs to keep their grant gravy flowing.

If Mann hoped to silence critics through waging "lawfare," he certainly chose poorly.

Posted by: Adjoran at January 23, 2014 06:57 AM (473jB)

175 The "Coexist" pic from the March for Life was genius. Nice twist on a lefty meme.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 23, 2014 06:57 AM (ZPrif)

176 Models are the worst for that, because you can basically build the model to whatever specs you want. I hope someone in this trial dares to compare Mann's model to actual weather data. And I hope they also include all the wild-eyed accusations of climate disasters that failed to materialize. That would take months just by itself.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 06:58 AM (0HooB)

177 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at January 23, 2014 10:58 AM (0HooB) My wife used to do Dark Matter modeling. She used to joke that with the right keystrokes she could model a universe made of chocolate with the data they were using.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 06:59 AM (GaqMa)

178

161 backhoe

 

Hi, and yes - now we have to add the pet hospital to our hospital visiting ...luckily I'm on a 5 week holiday from work!

Posted by: aussie at January 23, 2014 06:59 AM (kNqWd)

179

First Sandusky, now Mann?  I don't think PSU needs this.

 

Posted by: burt at January 23, 2014 06:59 AM (1+kJ5)

180

Dear Mr. Steyn,

 

Two words:  1.Anthony  2.Watts

 

I am sure he is not unknown to you, but Mr. Watts would be of inestimable assistance in helping you tear Dr. Mann a new one, an orfice that the world is in dire need of servicing.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at January 23, 2014 07:00 AM (Dxb1S)

181 LilMissCapitalist @LilMissRightie Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 23, 2014 07:00 AM (ZPrif)

182 I hadn't seen the full quote from the Steyn Online piece posted yet: As readers may have deduced from my absence at National Review Online and my termination of our joint representation, there have been a few differences between me and the rest of the team. The lesson of the last year is that you win a free-speech case not by adopting a don't-rock-the-boat, keep-mum, narrow procedural posture but by fighting it in the open, in the bracing air and cleansing sunlight of truth and justice.

Posted by: lawdvd at January 23, 2014 07:01 AM (d3clc)

183 One thing is apparent. Mann is an idiot.

Posted by: maddogg at January 23, 2014 07:01 AM (xWW96)

184 "Models are the worst for that, because you can basically build the model to whatever specs you want."

Worthy of note that Dr. Freeman Dyson is a dissenter from the AGW nonsense.

Because if there's one thing he understands at an absolutely meticulous level, it is the inherent peril of modeling large complex physical systems mathematically and computationally.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 23, 2014 07:01 AM (gqT4g)

185

Models are the worst for that, because you can basically build the model to whatever specs you want.

 

--------

 

Yep, it's why I got into an argument over whether meteorology is an actual "science."  My point was that given the mass of an object, the angle of its initial trajectory, and its velocity, I can calculate its landing spot pretty damned closely   -   but give an identical data set to ten different weathermen and you'll get ten different responses, and the differences will usually hinge on that weatherman's "gut."

 

Sorry, but when you have to include a subjective gut feeling, you don't have science...just like figure skating isn't a sport.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 23, 2014 07:01 AM (eytER)

186 You ain't seen nothin' like the Mighty Quim!

Posted by: Wendy Davis wears Prada at January 23, 2014 07:02 AM (GeVLX)

187 Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg **** Nicely done

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 23, 2014 07:02 AM (DmNpO)

188 The vaunted consensus seems to now consist of several factions shouting at one another.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 23, 2014 07:03 AM (659DL)

189 Doo Wa Diddy Diddy[[/b] Dum Diddy Doo? Posted by: rickb223 FIFY.... IIRC....

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:04 AM (VyRoX)

190 Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg As one commenter said, and I agree, "We need bumper stickers of this everywhere!"

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:04 AM (xZxMD)

191 Wait a minute! NR is looking for new lawyers, and as of today, Steyn seems to be representing himself. Mann caused them to spend something on the order of a half million bucks, according to Steyn, and right now they don't seem to have any lawyers. What happened?

Posted by: MTF at January 23, 2014 07:05 AM (F58x4)

192 181 LilMissCapitalist @LilMissRightie Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 23, 2014 11:00 AM (ZPrif) Awesome!

Posted by: rickl at January 23, 2014 07:05 AM (zoehZ)

193 Doo Wa Diddy Diddy[ Dum Diddy Doo? Posted by: rickb223 FIFY.... IIRC.... Yeah. I missed one.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:05 AM (xZxMD)

194 My wife used to do Dark Matter modeling. She used to joke that with the right keystrokes she could model a universe made of chocolate with the data they were using. Hmm, that sounds intriguing, a universe comprised of dark chocolate. Now I want some dark chocolate. BRB...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:06 AM (0HooB)

195 And Adam Baldwin loved the Coexist pro-life sign too!

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at January 23, 2014 07:06 AM (vuh7l)

196 I can't speak to the fraud claims because I forget what exactly they were, but the Sandusky one's certainly cannot be seen as Malice.
=====
Malice has a very set legal definition.
The leftists want everyone to think "malice = mean."
It does not.

Here is what the Supreme Court has held: "A public figure may not recover damages for a defamatory falsehood without clear and convincing proof that the false statement was made with "actual malice" -- that is, with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." Sullivan v. NYT.

Note: That means a statement of fact (See the Hustler Opinion)--not a "person X is like evil person Y." That's an opinion. AN OPINION.

For the Sandusky thing to be malice it would have to be Steyn saying, "Mann is another Jerry Sandusky--a child rapist who covered it up for years." A statement of FACT.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 07:07 AM (VjL9S)

197 What happened? Posted by: MTF at January 23, 2014 11:05 AM (F58x4) It wasn't the hill to die on

Posted by: Hoby eyes, hobo skin, hobo heart, hobo parts wear Prada at January 23, 2014 07:07 AM (GeVLX)

198 >>Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg

Love it!
Not only clever, but a lovely graphic to combat their ugliness.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2014 07:07 AM (POpqt)

199 Hmm, so what you're saying is that the Republicans need to trick President Obama into suing them over Fast and Furious, the IRS scandal, Benghazi, and Obamacare....

Posted by: runningrn at January 23, 2014 07:08 AM (o6g4X)

200 On the current status, the DC Court of Appeals did leave the door open for Steyn to appeal this latest ruling. The issue is whether a denial of a Motion to Dismiss can be appealed under the anti-SLAPP statute at this point. I expect they will appeal and the Court of Appeals will decide first whether an interlocutory appeal (appeal while the case remains pending below) can be heard and if so, whether the motion was properly denied. Interlocutory appeals are generally not allowed, but there are a few exceptions and it is possible that, since the anti-SLAPP statutes are meant to keep defendants from the burdens of a lengthy process, the Appeals Court will hear the appeal on the merits.

Posted by: lawdvd at January 23, 2014 07:08 AM (d3clc)

201 Suing Mark Steyn is a foolish idea. Jumping into the tiger cage at the zoo will be easier on your dignity.

Posted by: fluffy at January 23, 2014 07:08 AM (Ua6T/)

202 Court finds house is legally haunted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stambovsky_v._Ackley

Just saying.  Finding that particular CO2-related AGW claims are unsubstantiated, backed by falsified data, fraudulent, etc. is one thing.   I would expect some hoopla to a court finding CO2-related AGWis not real, but I would not place any more importance on that than what we already know.

Thanks for the update on this case.

Posted by: flounder at January 23, 2014 07:09 AM (Kkt/i)

203 I wish I could be in that courtroom when America's Undocumented Radio Host takes the stand. That will be epic. Plus he'll look good too (Mark Steyn is a very natty dresser not to mention pretty easy on the eyes, and that voice....)

Posted by: runningrn at January 23, 2014 07:10 AM (o6g4X)

204 Love it! Not only clever, but a lovely graphic to combat their ugliness. Agreed. Add that to Brit Hume's brilliant comments on abortion from yesterday: full of win.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:10 AM (0HooB)

205 Dark Matter modeling

We don't even know what dark matter is much beyond calling it "stuff".

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at January 23, 2014 07:11 AM (zxsxA)

206 Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg Love it! Not only clever, but a lovely graphic to combat their ugliness. Succinct class is in session.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:11 AM (xZxMD)

207 $500,000 in legal fees at this point, given what has gone on so far, seems huge to me. But I'm not in a place whether they charge $600-$800/hr like they do in DC.

Posted by: lawdvd at January 23, 2014 07:11 AM (d3clc)

208

He made the Sandusky comparison because mann was also at Penn State.

 

As a proud Nitwit Lion I would like a lot more pop-cult references to the mighty JoePa, who though he may have been flawed graduated more scholar athletes than anyone in history and who inculcated the game with values.  Also used his mojo to build a world class library on campus, not a sports facility. 

 

I know I'm just baying in the wind, but it sucks that PSU is now known for Piltdown Mann and Sandusky.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 23, 2014 07:12 AM (A0sHn)

209 Just two teaspoons a day will give you more vigor, it will make you more handsome, more rugged and better endowed.

Posted by: Michael Mann's Magical Tonic at January 23, 2014 07:12 AM (Aif/5)

210 better endowed.

Posted by: Michael Mann's Magical Tonic at January 23, 2014 11:12 AM (Aif/5)

 

All it does is hide the decline.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (DrWcr)

211 One thing is apparent. Mann is an idiot. Posted by: maddogg ----------------- You'll be hearing from us....

Posted by: Mann Lawyers at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (aDwsi)

212 We don't even know what dark matter is much beyond calling it "stuff". I'll go old-school/steampunk and call it "ether."

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (0HooB)

213 I used to get a bad case of global warming on dates in high school?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (t3UFN)

214 Yep, it's why I got into an argument over whether meteorology is an actual "science." Oil patch folks used to joke about geologist and meteorologist switching jobs for a month and no one noticed

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (R8hU8)

215 Did someone say dark matter modeling? I am tanned, rested, and ready to go!

Posted by: Helen Thomas's Dead, Rotting Cooter at January 23, 2014 07:13 AM (o6g4X)

216 It would be kind of funny if the Global Warming Mann got burned.

Posted by: Caliban at January 23, 2014 07:14 AM (DrC22)

217 Oscar Wilde just called. He advises "Piltdown" Mann against it

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 23, 2014 07:14 AM (OEuV/)

218 Most libel Plaintiffs w/ bogus cases eventually get it through their thick heads that the stuff that comes out about them at trial will make them look much worse than the orginal article, and they settle or drop the case.   But this arrogant little pr*ck may be just crazy enough to take it to trial, so yeah, pass the popcorn. 

Posted by: Bud Norton at January 23, 2014 07:15 AM (6cOMd)

219 I know I'm just baying in the wind, but it sucks that PSU is now known for Piltdown Mann and Sandusky. I feel your pain. My brother and my sister both went there. My sister was there in some of the glory years of the football program (Todd Blackledge, Curt Warner, etc.) They won major bowl games despite the media prognosticating against them and fawning all over Marcus Allen, Hershel Walker, etc.

Posted by: runningrn at January 23, 2014 07:16 AM (o6g4X)

220 Sometimes I lament being so old, when I realize how the very language changes, in ways I resist. Like when "bad" meant bad, not good. Or, when being "chivalrous" was a good and welcome and admirable thing. Or when "scientific method" (largely the process of falsification) didn't mean "Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?” Just don't understand the way these kids talk today.. !

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:16 AM (rMZgH)

221 This thread still all science-y? I'll have to check back later.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 07:17 AM (7ObY1)

222 I'll go old-school/steampunk and call it "ether." Posted by: BackwardsBoy --------------- Aether

Posted by: Older School at January 23, 2014 07:17 AM (aDwsi)

223 Like when "bad" meant bad, not good.

Or, when being "chivalrous" was a good and welcome and admirable thing.

Like when "gay" meant "happy"?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:17 AM (6T8Ay)

224 Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 23, 2014 11:17 AM (7ObY1) To my knowledge, no one has posted pointy elbows, yet.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 23, 2014 07:18 AM (PYAXX)

225 Just don't understand the way these kids talk today.. ! Well, shizzle my nizzle.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:18 AM (0HooB)

226 Aether Duly noted.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:20 AM (0HooB)

227 215 - Crap! Coffee spit.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:20 AM (aDwsi)

228 OT,  but do most people know  now that  DD, Phil Robertson started at QB ahead of Terry Bradshaw at Louisiana Tech?    Gave up his senior year to duck hunt.    

Posted by: polynikes at January 23, 2014 07:20 AM (m2CN7)

229 We don't even know what dark matter is much beyond calling it "stuff". I'll go old-school/steampunk and call it "ether." In my time we very scientifically called it the orgone.

Posted by: Zombie Wilhelm Reich at January 23, 2014 07:20 AM (JQuNB)

230 its getting so cold in Houston tonight I'm wondering if Al Gore is coming to town. Gonna get some ice

Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 07:21 AM (zOTsN)

231 I'm going to watch this from a cornfield so I have enough popcorn on hand.

Posted by: dogfish at January 23, 2014 07:22 AM (NuPNl)

232 You know... there's one experiment that would settle this conclusively. If there were no more humanity, we could judge what effect that has on the environment. I say we start with the greenies- since they're the ones so sure we're doing damage to begin with. Bumper sticker on libtard teacher's car at my daughter's grade school: "Overpopulation is the single greatest threat to the planet today" I really wanted to ask her to start by euthanizing herself. You know, for the planet. And chirrens.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2014 07:22 AM (Bd6GP)

233 Bumper sticker on libtard teacher's car at my daughter's grade school:
"Overpopulation is the single greatest threat to the planet today"
I really wanted to ask her to start by euthanizing herself. You know, for the planet. And chirrens.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 23, 2014 11:22 AM (Bd6GP)

 

That really only applies to poor, dark-skinned people.

Posted by: Margaret Sanger at January 23, 2014 07:23 AM (DrWcr)

234 Mann's appearance will be postponed due to the worst blizzard of the year. I get my climate info from WattsUpWithThat. From what I read, there has been some warming, but nothing that hasn't happened many times in the recorded past. The idea that man is responsible for the warming is wrong, not least because increases in carbon dioxide don't coincide with warming, but lag the warming by 800 years - it is a symptom, not a cause. Finally, a look at the deep historical climate record shows that the earth is much cooler and starved of carbon dioxide than at any time in the past, and that a warmer earth with more CO2 would benefit all life. Humans might have to make slight adjustments, but nothing we haven't done many times before.

Posted by: whoever at January 23, 2014 07:23 AM (zu9Ee)

235 I really wanted to ask her to start by euthanizing herself. You know, for the planet. And chirrens. Posted by: Brave Sir Robin ----------------- She would regard herself as one of the people 'worth saving', because concerned.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:24 AM (aDwsi)

236 Bumper sticker on libtard teacher's car at my daughter's grade school:
"Overpopulation is the single greatest threat to the planet today"

Ask her how many of her students she thinks should never have been born.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 07:24 AM (ZKzrr)

237 gonna be hard to make AGW believers after this winter. They've become a punch line.

Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 07:24 AM (zOTsN)

238 Posted by: aussie at January 23, 2014 10:44 AM (kNqWd) Aussie, Prayers for you and your family members including your cat.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2014 07:25 AM (7kkQJ)

239 Ask her how many of her students she thinks should never have been born. Posted by: HR -------------- And more specifically, which ones.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:25 AM (aDwsi)

240 206 Buuuuuurn! RT @VictoriaTaft: Somehow I don't think the left expected the
pro lifers to borrow this. ;-) pic.twitter.com/kcF7wvZvPg

Love it!
Not only clever, but a lovely graphic to combat their ugliness.

Succinct class is in session.
=========
That really does need to be a bumper sticker.
Love how it stuffs their pretend tolerance right back in their faces.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 07:26 AM (VjL9S)

241 We don't even know what dark matter is much beyond calling it "stuff". I'll go old-school/steampunk and call it "ether." In my time we very scientifically called it the orgone. Ah, fuck it. Just humor me.

Posted by: Hippocrates at January 23, 2014 07:26 AM (JQuNB)

242 Ah, fuck it. Just humor me. Posted by: Hippocrates --------------------- ISWYDT

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:27 AM (aDwsi)

243 And more specifically, which ones.

I've no doubt she'd have a list.  This one has more than one sibling, that one has parents who take her to church...

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 07:27 AM (ZKzrr)

244 Posted by: Purp at January 23, 2014 11:11 AM (zxsxA) I never understood her research. Something something, universe expansion, something, dark matter.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 07:28 AM (GaqMa)

245 Next up : Radical Moistures - Where do they go during the winter?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:28 AM (aDwsi)

246 I used to get a bad case of global warming on dates in high school? -Nevergiveup Some day I must set down the burned-into-memory story of a double blind date with a buddy of mine. Upshot was, the passenger side of my Mustang had to be defrosted afterward, while my buddy's date in the back seat left scorch marks. Feminigenic Auto Climate Chaos

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:30 AM (cdYeu)

247 speaking of radical moisture looks like Wendy Davis got fired from her first law job

Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 07:30 AM (zOTsN)

248 I never understood her research.  Something something, universe expansion, something, dark matter.

This is the same person who voted for Obama twice, right?

Are you sure she understands her research?

Jus' sayin'

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (6T8Ay)

249 looks like Wendy Davis got fired from her first law job Her uterus is wandering all around her body, pining for a husband.

Posted by: Hippocrates at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (JQuNB)

250 Next up : Radical Moistures - Where do they go during the winter? Judging from the numbers of people in shorts here when it's 40 degrees outside, I'd say Florida.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (0HooB)

251 looks like Wendy Davis got fired from her first law job Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 11:30 AM (zOTsN) The patriarchy has never walked a mile in her shoes.

Posted by: Hobo parts wear Prada at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (GeVLX)

252 Huh....the things you learn about people from Twitter. @Ruth_A_Buzzi Maybe we should email one another the Constitution so the government would read

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (bCEmE)

253 looks like Wendy Davis got fired from her first law job Posted by: thunderb ---------------- Probably because the patriarchy was intimidated by the awesomeness of her feminist being.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (aDwsi)

254
including the.... the University of East Anglia...

Heh.  One of the better laughs I have had in a while.  The climategate fraudsters are gonna back him up.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 23, 2014 07:32 AM (n0DEs)

255 Her uterus is wandering all around her body, pining for a husband ATM.

Posted by: Hippocrates at January 23, 2014 11:32 AM (JQuNB)

 

FIFY.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 23, 2014 07:33 AM (DrWcr)

256 Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 11:32 AM (6T8Ay) I can only confirm she voted for Obama once, and given that she said "I regret that." I think not a second time. She's learning

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 07:33 AM (GaqMa)

257 Just don't understand the way these kids talk today.. ! Posted by: webworker They should also get off your lawn.

Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 23, 2014 07:33 AM (fk1A8)

258 I suspect they've logged some miles on her cooter tho

Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 07:33 AM (zOTsN)

259 248 speaking of radical moisture looks like Wendy Davis got fired from her first law job Posted by: thunderb at January 23, 2014 11:30 AM (zOTsN) Following the Hillary Clinton path, I see: Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy’s chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s 17-year career. Why? “Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.”

Posted by: MikeH at January 23, 2014 07:33 AM (136wp)

260 Her uterus is wandering all around her body, pining for a husband.  Posted by: Hippocrates at January 23, 2014 11:32 AM (JQuNB)

I wish she'd pine for the fjords.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:34 AM (6T8Ay)

261 We don't want her, either.

Posted by: The Fjords at January 23, 2014 07:35 AM (ZKzrr)

262 its getting so cold in Houston tonight I'm wondering if Al Gore is coming to town. Gonna get some ice And Dallas is going to be dry. Go figure.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:36 AM (xZxMD)

263 She's learning  Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 11:33 AM (GaqMa)

On behalf of the 91.8 million who are no longer in the workforce, please extend my thanks.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:36 AM (6T8Ay)

264 The patriarchy has never walked a mile in her shoes. Can't. I wear a size 12.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:37 AM (xZxMD)

265 Bumper sticker on libtard teacher's car at my daughter's grade school: "Overpopulation is the single greatest threat to the planet today" In no way do I endorse or condone even seemingly trivial and "harmless" vandalizing. But were I of such a frame of mind, I might think about the application of an additional sticker, "I want to kill myself!" (Did I get that phrase right? On the cell, too lazy/hasty to check the archives. The works with any cartoon thing.)

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:37 AM (DgUzc)

266 Art imitates life. Sure wish Mr. Crichton was still around to see this.

Posted by: Cornfed at January 23, 2014 07:38 AM (Hoy9u)

267 On behalf of the 91.8 million who are no longer in the workforce, please extend my thanks. Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 23, 2014 11:36 AM (6T8Ay) Yes, well keep in mind, I'm one of those 91.8 million . And for a while there, we thought she might become one too! Our savings only tide us over for about 3 months before we have to start digging into 401Ks

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 07:39 AM (GaqMa)

268 A lot of current and former NHL players are wearing false  teeth due to   the  damn hockey stick. Mann needs to watch out.

Posted by: Roy at January 23, 2014 07:40 AM (VndSC)

269 It's starting to look like Wendy's wearing clown shoes.

Posted by: Dang at January 23, 2014 07:40 AM (MNq6o)

270 What is this "work" you all keep referring to? Would it be related to that other "money" thingy I hear so much about?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:41 AM (0HooB)

271 I would like to see a chart of what the future climate is supposed to be.

Posted by: Mega at January 23, 2014 07:41 AM (hHFOx)

272 Every time someone says you can't make it on minimum wage jobs, hit them back with the "How I Saved $10,000 in 10 Months (at an Entry Level Job)" article.


Posted by: RoyalOil at January 23, 2014 07:42 AM (VjL9S)

273 hat is this "work" you all keep referring to?

Chumps do it so people who hate us can get free shit.

Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 07:42 AM (ZKzrr)

274 270 It's starting to look like Wendy's wearing clown shoes.

Yes, it does. All she needs is a honkable red nose....

Posted by: backhoe at January 23, 2014 07:43 AM (ULH4o)

275 And for a while there, we thought she might become one too! 

Elections have consequences.

She chose....poorly.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:44 AM (6T8Ay)

276 Chumps do it so people who hate us can get free shit. Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 11:42 AM (ZKzrr) I know. What's hilarious is how the free shit always flows away from me. Out of work: Don't qualify for the unemployment even it gets extended. Student loans: My interest rate fixed before congress was subsidizing it into the 2-3% range. Fancy ass tax credits: always expire before I have a chance to use them. I'm getting hosed

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 07:44 AM (GaqMa)

277 It's starting to look like Wendy's wearing clown shoes. Yes, it does. All she needs is a honkable red nose.... Moar valu-rite.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:45 AM (xZxMD)

278 Some day I must set down the burned-into-memory story of a double blind date with a buddy of mine. Upshot was, the passenger side of my Mustang had to be defrosted afterward, while my buddy's date in the back seat left scorch marks. Feminigenic Auto Climate Chaos Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 11:30 AM (cdYeu) Yup now that is global warming- the globes of her ass at least

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 23, 2014 07:46 AM (t3UFN)

279 I'm getting hosed Posted by: tsrblke You forgot the lotion again, didn't you?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 23, 2014 07:46 AM (xZxMD)

280 " but I for one would pay to watch Mr. Mann being cross examined about global cooling or global warming or climate change or climate collapse or whatever it is being called this week." Here in Michigan I'm calling it winter. You know, extreme snow and cold? Winter.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 23, 2014 07:46 AM (wVAX5)

281 Posted by: HR at January 23, 2014 11:42 AM (ZKzrr) I forgot HAMP: I was renting because I didn't want to buy a house I couldn't afford. This "living morally" shit is costing me a ton of money!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 23, 2014 07:47 AM (GaqMa)

282 Yup now that is global warming- the globes of her ass at least

Flaming globes, Sigmund!  Flaming globes!

Posted by: Larry David[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 23, 2014 07:47 AM (6T8Ay)

283 We also get global warming in Michigan in July. Temperatures in the eighties and nineties, some thunderstorms. Only we call it summer.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 23, 2014 07:47 AM (wVAX5)

284 Nood

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 23, 2014 07:50 AM (bCEmE)

285 97 He made the Sandusky comparison because mann was also at Penn State.He never suggested Mann was a pederast So, when did Mann stop having sex with children?

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 23, 2014 07:51 AM (tcK++)

286 Yup now that is global warming- the globes of her ass at least - Nevergiveup Speaking of globes, the best line if the evening was my buddy's date saying, mind if I take off my coat, as she was doing it. We did not object. Did I mention she was Italian? (His date. Mine was dark scandi or something.)

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:53 AM (DgUzc)

287 Will they use the climate gate materials as a guide to what to ask for in discovery? Has noone in the "scientific community" watned Phil that his arrogance is about to bring them all down? If he is proven to be a fraud can Congress sue to get all that taxpayer money back and would the UN's IPCC be viewed as RICO eligible (no, I don't expect prosecution merely redefinition in the public square).

Posted by: Donavon PfeifferJr at January 23, 2014 07:55 AM (w/J7i)

288 And that one night (only a few hours, thanks, Mom!) that my buddy & I spent in jail, between the psycho killer and the guy with the DTs? That was at my climate chilling date's father's insistance, over protests of the officers. Completely unrelated to the blind date years earlier. High school. Good times. Good times.

Posted by: webworker at January 23, 2014 07:59 AM (pEOD8)

289 While I really, really, really want to see Mann taken down a few rungs - hell, I want to see the f'in ladder split right down the middle like an old Road Runner cartoon, with Mann pulling a 'Help!' sign from his pocket as he dangles in midair like Wile E Coyote before plunging thirty feet to a painful crash - I can understand Steyn's frustration. One's ability to get 'justice' from the US court system is fairly directly related to the amount of money one's side can pour into the process. And Mann is the keystone in the warmist dam - if he tumbles, the whole billion-ton mass of bovine excrement may just wash away behind him. So I can well imagine money oozing in from throughout the toxic heap of academic fraud and corporate rent-seeking that's invested so much in perpetuating the statistical misconduct of him and his fellow-travelers that they may not survive his fall.

Posted by: JEM at January 23, 2014 07:59 AM (o+SC1)

290 This is going to be stickier than some might imagine. However much we may agree, a jury faced with “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change” (as Steyn remarked) might be inclined to think Steyn went overboard.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 23, 2014 10:23 AM (aDwsi)


No, Mike. Mann has no case there. The article in question did not in any way compare Michael Mann to Jerry Sandusky. The analogy was drawn between the way that Penn State handled the allegations in each instance.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2014 08:02 AM (pFqpP)

291 Incidentally, to go OT, anyone see that horrible "Planet Hillary" pic on the sidebar? It's just crying for a "Hillary Moon" parody, with a skanky, cellulite-laden ass. And anal leakage. Can't forget that.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2014 08:04 AM (pFqpP)

292

Seems like Mann is going to find out "discovery"  is a bitch

Posted by: The Jackhole at January 23, 2014 08:05 AM (nTgAI)

293 Mr. Mann is demanding a jury trial. ************** I'd love to be on that jury.

Posted by: Trivial Pursuer at January 23, 2014 08:05 AM (/sohm)

294 This is going to be such fun!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/b] [/s] at January 23, 2014 08:33 AM (71bXH)

295 It's funny how astronomers seek planets in the habitable zone of their stars, while climate scientists insist that the sun has absolutely no effect on climate.

Posted by: whoever at January 23, 2014 08:36 AM (zu9Ee)

296 @294 - yeah, me too. But I suppose I'd be unlikely to get on the jury in the first place. "Oh, we don't need a trial, let's just award the defendants treble costs right now." Part of the problem here is where this trial's being held, you've probably got a lot of institutional warmists and the lowest of the LIVs in the jury pool.

Posted by: JEM at January 23, 2014 08:42 AM (o+SC1)

297 I would love to see Mann on the stand being asked to justify his hockey-stick. I'd even pay admission.  Don't see it happening though.

Posted by: Jenny2 at January 23, 2014 08:54 AM (2dN+R)

298 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/noaa-world-in-2013-was-4th-hottest-on-record/ "Last year was tied for the fourth warmest year on record around the world. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration on Tuesday released its global temperature figures for 2013. The average world temperature was 58.12 degrees (14.52 Celsius) tying with 2003 for the fourth warmest since 1880. NASA, which calculates records in a different manner, said Tuesday that 2013 was the seventh warmest on record, with an average temperature of 58.3 degrees (14.6 Celsius). Both agencies said nine of the 10th warmest years on record have happened in the 21st century. The hottest year was 2010. A global insurance firm says there were 41 billion-dollar weather disasters last year. Unlike 2012, most of the heat and disasters were outside the United States."

Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 08:58 AM (L+Mit)

299 I don't doubt the existence of Mann-made climate change.

Posted by: dirks strewn at January 23, 2014 08:58 AM (kfcYC)

300 http://www.desmogblog.com/national-science-foundation-vindicates-michael-mann "The National Science Foundation (NSF) Office of the Inspector General, having conducted a thorough review and investigation into all allegations of impropriety or scientific misconduct against Penn State University Prof. Michael Mann, has dismissed all of those allegations for lack of evidence and closed the case (attached and/or here)." So disagreeing about scientific conclusions is a valid part of scientific inquiry. However, accusing people whose conclusions have a factual basis of "fraud" with no evidence sounds a lot like libel to this engineer (not lawyer). Not to mention the pederast reference.

Posted by: TommyVee at January 23, 2014 09:01 AM (L+Mit)

301 "today's school systems are fool of " Oh my.

Posted by: whoever at January 23, 2014 09:10 AM (zu9Ee)

302 What happened to Steyn at NRO? He recycled an old Rat Pack joke and hasn't been heard from since.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at January 23, 2014 09:19 AM (QZkRD)

303 Apologies. Just read a couple of comments. Carry on.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at January 23, 2014 09:20 AM (QZkRD)

304 Mr. Mann, are those your real eyesockets and if so, how closely are your parents related to marmots? Do you store wheat in those round, round, round, round cheeks of yours? Can you chirp for us? Just a little.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at January 23, 2014 09:27 AM (UfYXk)

305 Dear Old State http://tinyurl.com/3gkp9pp

Posted by: occam's brassiere at January 23, 2014 09:34 AM (QZkRD)

306 There's no case here, and I know no legally literate person who thinks there is who isn't also a partisan hack.

There was no charge of "fraud," firstly--at least not in any legally actionable sense. The use of the term fraud in the NRO piece is an example of rhetorical hyperbole, which is protected speech under 1st Amendment precedent. Even if we were to pretend otherwise, the NRO piece merely offers opinion based on interpretation of on-the-record facts--also protected speech. See Partington v. Bugliosi, 56 F.3d 1147, 1156–1157 (9th Cir.1995). The factual validity of Mann's research is actually entirely irrelevant to the legal controversy. Mann wouldn't have a case even if he weren't a public figure. However, since he is, his counsel will have to show actual malice (not to be confused with common law malice, i.e., hatred or spite). To show actual malice, it will be necessary to show that NRO published a factual allegation they knew was false. The Sandusky comparison is not probative in this matter, obviously.

If there's one thing I've learned about juries over the years, it's that they're volatile. But it ultimately won't matter. Albert Snyder thought he had a case against the Westboro Baptist Church on an IIED claim. A Maryland jury agreed. Good for Snyder. Good for the legally illiterate Maryland jury. The Supreme Court reversed 8-1. The same will happen to any judgment Mann gets at the trial court level.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at January 23, 2014 10:27 AM (TWZ2J)

307 charging people to have their photo taken outside the courthouse with Mr. Steyn could be part his fundraising to cover the crushing legal costs of defending the 1st Amendment Hilarious. Yep, I'd pay for that.

Posted by: m at January 23, 2014 11:35 AM (omrQI)

308 The human capacity for self-delusion never ceases to amaze me. Reality check folks: Steyn and company aren't even TRYING to claim (in court) that Mann actually committed fraud. Rather, their argument has been that when they published articles calling him a fraud, saying he manipulated data, et cetera they were not making factual statements but rather only meant that they disagreed with Mann and using "hyperbolic speech" to express that. Those were just 'over the top' exaggerations that no reasonable person would take as assertions of fact and thus are 'protected speech'. Of course, given that their readers (cf - MANY comments above) clearly thought they really were saying that Mann committed fraud, this defense is complete nonsense... and has now been rejected as such by two different judges. As to discovery... if this is going to be such a wonderful thing for the 'global warming is fake' crowd, why are Steyn and his co-defendants filing motion after motion desperately trying to stay discovery or avoid it entirely, while Mann is fighting to begin the discovery process ASAP?

Posted by: CBDunkerson at January 24, 2014 04:24 AM (upD3U)

309 Viva Steyn !!

That Mark Steyn is quite a guySay admirers with a quiet sighThen comes Mike Mann
(Who could use a tan)
Sueing Steyn who just spits in his eye

There's pseudo-scientist Mann
No more than a flash in the pan
Sueing Steyn wasn't cool
So he proved he's a fool
Who'll wind up in the court's trash can

The pseudo-scientist Mann
Who's hockey stick graph was a sham
Though he found minor fame
Much to his shame
Steyn's take-down hit a grand slam


Posted by: nannieboobot at January 24, 2014 01:58 PM (CUiZA)

310 Pay Per View, please!!  I want to see Mark have at him.

Posted by: Rachel at January 25, 2014 03:00 AM (LkS95)

311 The worst part of a suit like this is even after Steyn and NR win, they lose because no court will make Mann pay their attorney fees.

Posted by: Jack Straw at January 25, 2014 04:01 AM (sNg45)

312 Hilarity ensues. Warm mongers should be lined up and shot. You know, since there's no cure for stupid. Science these days is about as serious as Joe Biden. Little activists out of junior high with liberal hyper inflated egos and god complexes get into science not to study, but to go to war against evil western culture and capitalism. Of course there's never more than one solution: communal life. These little morons leave public school with Stockholm Syndrome, sympathizing and throwing in their lot with their public school teacher captors. It's repulsive. A couple of generations is lost. Right them off. If you want to save the next generation, send in hostage rescue teams and get them out of these leftist government cabals.

Posted by: Jonny be good at January 25, 2014 05:20 AM (ybydQ)

313 Steyn just linked this item from SteynOnline.  Now go buy a Viva Steyn t-shirt and help him out.

Posted by: Born Free at January 25, 2014 09:44 AM (xL8Hf)

314 oh for discovery.

Posted by: geronimo at January 25, 2014 01:06 PM (BkSRF)

315 Obviously Steyn wanted to be the one to cross examine Mann, which is why he is taking this course. The danger he faces is that the judge is obviously so completely in Mann's camp that he may severely limit any questions Steyn can ask. I am sure that if it weren't for the public scrutiny he would already have decided the case in Mann's favor. On a separate note, with the recent sun activity (you know - that big yellow ball in the sky that Mann thinks has no effect on climate) we are much more likely to see significant global cooling rather than global warming.

Posted by: RobertW at January 25, 2014 01:15 PM (cv1EW)

316 Do you think he'll take the 5th?

Posted by: cjorach at January 26, 2014 12:48 PM (6Hftl)

317 Shills like Mann are aided and abetted in the Senate like Moron Whitehouse, who would like nothing better than to criminalize the speech of "climate change deniers" - check this out: http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=53269

Posted by: Siouxsan at January 30, 2014 03:31 PM (HkLXP)

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