May 02, 2014

"Gospel of Jesus' Wife" Turns Out to Be a Fraud
— Ace

Just a few weeks ago, some scientists declared the fragment of papyrus was not a fake, and of course the media rushed to promote the story.

A team of scientists has concluded that a controversial scrap of papyrus that purportedly quotes Jesus referring to "my wife," is not a fake, according to the Harvard Theological Review.

"A wide range of scientific testing indicates that a papyrus fragment containing the words, 'Jesus said to them, my wife' is an ancient document, dating between the sixth to ninth centuries CE," Harvard Divinity School said in a statement.

Scientists tested the papyrus and the carbon ink, and analyzed the handwriting and grammar, according to Harvard.

Radiocarbon tests conducted at Harvard and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology produced an origination date for the papyrus of 659-859 CE, according to Harvard. MIT also studied the chemical composition of the papyrus and patterns of oxidation.

Other scholars studied the carbon character of the ink and found that it matched samples of papyri from the first to eight century CE, according to Harvard.

"None of the testing has produced any evidence that the fragment is a modern fabrication or forgery," the divinity school said.

I almost posted on this story when it was current, three weeks ago. I was curious how the claimed dating of the papyrus to the 6th-9th centuries AD proved it "wasn't a fake."

There have been fake religious texts for so long as there have been religions. After all, any atheist of course considers the whole of the Bible a hoax. Popular books claim that almost the entirety of the Bible is "Forged," as one book title puts it.

Intriguingly, the same CNN Religion Blog which now promotes the idea of antiquity being the equivalent of authenticity also was pretty psyched about the findings of that Forged book.

Kind of a contradictory impulse, when you think about it: When an academic says "basically, everything in the Bible is a forgery," the CNN Religion blog gets engorged and throbby about it.

But then someone comes forward with what is purportedly a papyrus containing Jesus' words and they're very credulous in claiming it's "real."

There are no shortage of acknowledged forged religious texts in the world.

Among Christians, there are dozens of texts which purport to be divinely inspired but which have long been considered Apocrypha, false texts, hoaxes. Some number of apocryphal would-be books of the Bible, for example, are rewrites of Aesop's ancient animal fables.

Thus it was very strange to me that the finding that this fragment could be dated to the 6th to 9th centuries AD (obviously long after Jesus' actual life) established, per these scientists, that it wasn't a "fake."

It could still be fake. Most religious texts are in fact spurious -- even religious people think most "religious texts" are false, apart from the few they acknowledge as real.

There have been multiple "new" books of the Bible "discovered" over the years. People invent such things for political purposes, or for intellectual gamesmanship (a prank), or to get rich.

So, someone writing 600-900 years after the fact... purporting to report on words directly spoken by Jesus noted by no other source in the world?

Maybe a little skepticism here, guys?

Yesterday a scholar wrote that it the "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" is conclusively a forgery.

In September 2012, Harvard Divinity School professor Karen King announced the discovery of a Coptic (ancient Egyptian) gospel text on a papyrus fragment that contained the phrase "Jesus said to them, 'My wife . . .' " The world took notice. The possibility that Jesus was married would prompt a radical reconsideration of the New Testament and biblical scholarship.

Yet now it appears almost certain that the Jesus-was-married story line was divorced from reality. On April 24, Christian Askeland—a Coptic specialist at Indiana Wesleyan University and my colleague at the Green Scholars Initiative—revealed that the "Gospel of Jesus' Wife," as the fragment is known, was a match for a papyrus fragment that is clearly a forgery.

Almost from the moment Ms. King made her announcement two years ago, critics attacked the Gospel of Jesus' Wife as a forgery. One line of criticism said that the fragment had been sloppily reworked from a 2002 online PDF of the Coptic Gospel of Thomas and even repeated a typographical error.

But Ms. King had defenders. The Harvard Theological Review recently published a group of articles that attest to the papyrus's authenticity. Although the scholars involved signed nondisclosure agreements preventing them from sharing the data with the wider scholarly community, the New York Times was given access to the studies ahead of publication. The newspaper summarized the findings last month, saying "the ink and papyrus are very likely ancient, and not a modern forgery." The article prompted a tide of similar pieces, appearing shortly before Easter, asserting that the Gospel of Jesus' Wife was genuine.

Then last week the story began to crumble faster than an ancient papyrus exposed in the windy Sudan. Mr. Askeland found, among the online links that Harvard used as part of its publicity push, images of another fragment, of the Gospel of John, that turned out to share many similarities—including the handwriting, ink and writing instrument used—with the "wife" fragment. The Gospel of John text, he discovered, had been directly copied from a 1924 publication.

"Two factors immediately indicated that this was a forgery," Mr. Askeland tells me. "First, the fragment shared the same line breaks as the 1924 publication. Second, the fragment contained a peculiar dialect of Coptic called Lycopolitan, which fell out of use during or before the sixth century." Ms. King had done two radiometric tests, he noted, and "concluded that the papyrus plants used for this fragment had been harvested in the seventh to ninth centuries." In other words, the fragment that came from the same material as the "Jesus' wife" fragment was written in a dialect that didn't exist when the papyrus it appears on was made.

Mark Goodacre, a New Testament professor and Coptic expert at Duke University, wrote on his NT Blog on April 25 about the Gospel of John discovery: "It is beyond reasonable doubt that this is a fake, and this conclusion means that the Jesus' Wife Fragment is a fake too." Alin Suciu, a research associate at the University of Hamburg and a Coptic manuscript specialist, wrote online on April 26: "Given that the evidence of the forgery is now overwhelming, I consider the polemic surrounding the Gospel of Jesus' Wife papyrus over."

If you can't follow that, this "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" is part of a collection of fragments, including a "Gospel of John." The Gospel of John is itself proven to be a fake, making the Gospel of Jesus' Wife-- written in the same ink, in the same handwriting, on the same sort of papyrus --also almost certainly a fake.

And now even CNN's Religion blog concedes as much.

It turns out that many phrases are copied directly from a gnostic text called "The Gospel of Thomas," which is widely available -- and one of the first texts people read when they study gnosticism.


More specific issues arose in the perceived familiarity of the document.

The text of the Jesus’ wife fragment is remarkably close to published editions, available online, of another Coptic Christian text, called the “Gospel of Thomas.”

So close, in fact, that one of the typographical errors in an online edition of the “Gospel of Thomas” is replicated, uniquely, in the Jesus’ wife fragment.

CNN also mentions something that was always a massive strike against the authenticity of the fragment:

The papyrus, along with a few other ancient papyri of lesser novelty, had been passed to King by an anonymous figure.

Anonymity, in the world of antiquities, is often a bad sign, compounding the inherent uncertainty when dealing with texts that are bought and sold rather than discovered in a firm archaeological setting.

This is huge grounds for intense skepticism, as almost any scholar or treasure-hunter or anyone who had discovered such a thing would certainly wish to have his discovery associated with his name.

Instead, he passes it along... anonymously?

Why? Why would anyone not want the world to know they'd discovered something huge?

The only possible scenario I could imagine here was the Dan Brown Scenario:

An honest priest discovers the Church-destroying fragment in the deepest crypt of the Vatican's "Black Books" library. Shortly before being murdered by an Argentine hunchback with a penchant for poison, he slips the paradigm-shifting scrap into a mundane book at a local lending library in Rome.

Rock-n-Roll archeologist Karen King had no idea she was about to set the world on fire when she slipped the Italian-translation of "50 Shades of Gray" from the shelf at her library...

I mean, as silly as that sounds, that's the only semi-plausible scenario I can see for someone slipping this fragment to King anonymously -- that the fragment is Banned by the Vatican, and he's a priest who wants the Truth About Jesus 'n His Gal to Come Out, but is afraid to do so himself.

But no-- no skepticism. The people who tell us we should be intensely skeptical of our religions seem to be incapable of rousing the slightest bit of doubt about their own.

Incidentally, the whole notion that if something is "written on old papyrus it must be authentic" is staggeringly naive. Forgers routinely use old paper and old materials to execute their modern forgeries.

This is such an obvious thing I'm surprised anyone even has to say it.

If you want to read more about all this, this article from the Harvard Theological Review -- calling the fragment, flat-out, a forgery copied with minor changes from the gnostic Gospel of Thomas -- is pretty interesting.

He notes that the first thing a would-be forger of paintings does is go out and buy and old piece of wood or canvas for the job.

He also notes that he finds it unlikely that in only seven lines of text, this "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" is suspiciously action-packed with Dan Brown-style Sacred Feminine agitation. It's not just the "My Wife" line; in just seven lines, the document pushes multiple feminist-oriented heresies (such as agitating for female priests).

I thought this was amusing:

he second fact—which I owe directly to Mark Goodacre, who noticed it independently even if others may have too—is that t = a (my) in the expression t = a-hime (my wife) is written in what looks like bold letters. To be clear, using bold letters for emphasis to my knowledge never occurs in ancient Coptic literary manuscripts; I have never seen it in any documentary texts that have come to my attention. As a student of Coptic convinced that the fragment is a modern creation, I am unable to escape the impression that there is something almost hilarious about the use of bold letters. How could this not have been designed to some extent to convey a certain comic effect? The effect is something like: “ My wife. Get it? MY wife. You heard that right.”


Posted by: Ace at 01:49 PM | Comments (332)
Post contains 1878 words, total size 12 kb.

1 first?

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 01:52 PM (bJm7W)

2 Said this on this blog when it came out. I guess I am now qualified to be on the Harvard faculty.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 01:53 PM (yz6yg)

3 Golden Oldies good news/bad news joke: The good news -- Jesus is coming back The bad news -- he's really, really pissed off

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at May 02, 2014 01:54 PM (j1NwQ)

4 The gnostics have been a plague on the church since the beginning. The thirst for 'secret knowledge' and, conveniently, texts that let you do what you want, is a perennial attraction.

Posted by: toby928© Generic Gun Snob at May 02, 2014 01:54 PM (QupBk)

5 I heard a Jewish scholar this past weekend saying the same thing. Fake.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 01:54 PM (oMKp3)

6 so that Dan Brown book about the woman who was descended from Jesus is really just fiction?

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 01:55 PM (bJm7W)

7 Anything must be believed rather than the Carpenter from Nazareth was indeed who He said He was.

Posted by: Jmel at May 02, 2014 01:55 PM (cfFqn)

8 so that Dan Brown book about the woman who was descended from Jesus is really just fiction? Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 05:55 PM (bJm7W) You forgot to close your sarc tag there.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 01:55 PM (yz6yg)

9 Apropos of nothing, a friend of mine is some type of gnostic and was teaching a 'forbidden knowledge' class at the local Methodist church until the minister figured out that it wasn't an art class. He's crushed to be so ejected.

Posted by: toby928© Generic Gun Snob at May 02, 2014 01:56 PM (QupBk)

10 I remember reading a book some years ago by a guy who claimed someone had found a 'document' of some sort supposedly written by Jesus that indicated that Jesus had died (maybe with a family) at Masada c 70.

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 01:56 PM (bJm7W)

11 I'm thrown by this Gospel of John forgery. It's in the canon.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 01:56 PM (Ua6T/)

12 Sean came and got us. Everyone except Willow.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at May 02, 2014 01:57 PM (kZVsz)

13 Given the Italian legal system, I can buy the. Dan Brown scenario

Posted by: Jean at May 02, 2014 01:57 PM (Aqvh6)

14 "The papyrus, along with a few other ancient papyri of lesser novelty, had been passed to King by an anonymous figure." Boy. Check your sources.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 02, 2014 01:57 PM (gOoFi)

15 So the "Jesus Was Gay" Meme remains alive, right?

Posted by: Atheist Leftist Wankers Around the World at May 02, 2014 01:57 PM (MMC8r)

16 Jesus founded a Church.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (9W+0f)

17 It's weird though that people who don't even care about the canonical books of Scripture go into fantastically frothy fits of fascination when stuff like this pops up.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (oMKp3)

18 Funny, the carbon dating places that text around the same time as the start of another fake religious text that started with a paedophile hallucinating an angel in a cave.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (GW/jL)

19 Should not have used the Official Dukes of Hazzard stationery, even if it was on sale.

Posted by: Opus at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (RwwCT)

20 So, we're supposed to believe that Jesus was...Unsullied?

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (l/M30)

21 I'm kinda surprised no fraud ever tried to foist the 'Missing 18* years' of Jesus' life on the public. That book could sell a few copies. * Not sure the exact number, somewhere around there.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (j1NwQ)

22 The Church wrote the Books and decided which Books to include.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 01:58 PM (9W+0f)

23 >>> 14 "The papyrus, along with a few other ancient papyri of lesser novelty, had been passed to King by an anonymous figure." Dan Rather

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (Ua6T/)

24 >>>Should not have used the Official Dukes of Hazzard stationery, even if it was on sale. hah

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (/FnUH)

25 Science has become a fucking joke. Soon they will want to unionize.

Posted by: BEL at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (thLL8)

26 11 I'm thrown by this Gospel of John forgery. It's in the canon. Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 05:56 PM (Ua6T/) I think they mean another Gospel of John.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (oMKp3)

27 Other mistakes made in "Jesus' Wife" forgery... Mistakenly references Biggie Size Fries, which were not invented until the tenth century

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (/FnUH)

28 You should hear Dr. Stephen A. Hoeller's knowledge on the subject, he being the leading living exponent of Christian Gnosticism.

His lecture years ago is available (free access) online. I understand there are only a few (five?) partial sentences referencing "Jesus' wife" retrieved from the surviving Nag Hammadi scrolls.

See  gnosis.org/lectures

http://tinyurl.com/ybvz7dz

October 5, 2012 JESUS SAID "MY WIFE"
A Gnostic looks at the presumed evidence indicating that Jesus was married. Principal source will be Karen King¹s article in the forthcoming Harvard Theological Review, issue for January 2013. Available free at bcrecordings dot net.



Posted by: panzernashorn at May 02, 2014 01:59 PM (gmrH5)

29 "Dan Rather" Fake but accurate.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 02, 2014 02:00 PM (gOoFi)

30 'm kinda surprised no fraud ever tried to foist the 'Missing 18* years' of Jesus' life on the public. That book could sell a few copies. Dude.

Posted by: the rosicrucians at May 02, 2014 02:00 PM (QupBk)

31 Luther then got butt hurt about the Church not listening to his whining.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 02:00 PM (9W+0f)

32 And Jesus said, Take my wife... Please... Oh wait, that was Henny Youngman. Nevermind.

Posted by: real joe at May 02, 2014 02:00 PM (xXhgd)

33 Sean came and got us. Everyone except Willow. Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at May 02, 2014 05:57 PM (kZVsz) That's what the SOP is. Right here on page 357 of the AoSHQ Guide to the Moron Lifestyle

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:00 PM (yz6yg)

34 Oh here we go...

Lookie.  Massive universe didn't just decide to exist.  So there's a God.

Yer tiny.  Not just tiny but holy fucking cow you're tiny, tiny.  1 speck on a planet revolving 1 of a trillion suns in a galaxy of suns surrounded by a trillion galaxies.

Insignificant.

Except you're also part of the universe.  Once a star exploded and the atoms that make up you have been around since time began.

There is a creator.  Worrying about nonsense like this... well... you figure it out.  Not my job to explain any more than I have.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (x3YFz)

35 Oh wait, that was Henny Youngman. Nevermind. In fairness, also a Jew.

Posted by: toby928© at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (QupBk)

36 The Left: "Your book of fairy stories is a fraud!" "The Story of Jesus' Wife is like totes authentic, kwazy kwistian!"

Posted by: --- at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (MMC8r)

37 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." Mattew 7:15. I won't even look that nutty Dan Brown / Last Temptation of Christ crap. If you want to know about Jesus life, read the Bishop Sheens "Life of Jesus" or better yet read the Gospel.

Posted by: Havildar - Major at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (kduZC)

38 22 The Church wrote the Books and decided which Books to include. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 05:58 PM (9W+0f) The church wrote the Pentateuch? Who knew?

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (oMKp3)

39 >>> I think they mean another Gospel of John. Glad I'm not Roman Catholic. There seems to be a Saint John for every day of the week.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 02:01 PM (Ua6T/)

40 21 I'm kinda surprised no fraud ever tried to foist the 'Missing 18* years' of Jesus' life on the public. That book could sell a few copies. * Not sure the exact number, somewhere around there. Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 02, 2014 05:58 PM (j1NwQ) --I believe it's the apocryphal Gospel of James that portrays Jesus as kind of a dick as a boy, picking on other children with miracles.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:02 PM (GW/jL)

41 The Church wrote the Books and decided which Books to include. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 05:58 PM (9W+0f) Ummmm....not quite.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:02 PM (yz6yg)

42 >>> Yesterday a scholar wrote that it the "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" is conclusively a forgery. Neal Caffrey is involved somehow, I just know it!

Posted by: LizLem at May 02, 2014 02:02 PM (yRwC8)

43 31 Luther then got butt hurt about the Church not listening to his whining. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 06:00 PM (9W+0f) Please stop. Thanks .

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:02 PM (oMKp3)

44 "Take my wife. Please." The Gospel according to Rodney Dangerfield

Posted by: DM at May 02, 2014 02:02 PM (Ztudx)

45 Dude it's been over 2000 years!

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at May 02, 2014 02:03 PM (9+ccr)

46 Wuuut?! A Hah-vad scholar doing crap work and a reaching some paradigm shifting conclusion. Say it isn't so... I'm shocked.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 02, 2014 02:03 PM (WCi6Q)

47 On the other hand, harming Christendom is a good deed and definitely what God wants. Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at May 02, 2014 02:03 PM (9W+0f)

48 >>> Yer tiny. Not just tiny but holy fucking cow you're tiny, tiny. 1 speck on a planet revolving 1 of a trillion suns in a galaxy of suns surrounded by a trillion galaxies. You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 02:04 PM (Ua6T/)

49

44 "Take my wife. Please."

 

The Gospel according to Rodney Dangerfield

 

--------

 

Wasn't it Henny Youngman who did that first?

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:04 PM (l/M30)

50 44 "Take my wife. Please." The Gospel according to Rodney Dangerfield Posted by: DM at May 02, 2014 06:02 PM (Ztudx) Sorry, no rimshot due to a lack of drummers down to the local.

Posted by: DM at May 02, 2014 02:05 PM (Ztudx)

51 49 44 "Take my wife. Please." The Gospel according to Rodney Dangerfield -------- Wasn't it Henny Youngman who did that first? Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 06:04 PM (l/M30) No respect...

Posted by: LizLem at May 02, 2014 02:05 PM (yRwC8)

52 I so want the Raptors to close out the Nets. Half the fans of the Nets seem just to be there for celebrity-spotting and are bandwagoners. I hope Rihanna or some other celeb airhead is there to watch the Nets eliminated wuth their pals Jay-Z and Bounce.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:05 PM (GW/jL)

53 Frauds have many times been accepted in archaeology.I give you : Piltdown Man.

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:05 PM (zqvg6)

54 >>>Oh here we go... Lookie. Massive universe didn't just decide to exist. So there's a God. Yer tiny. Not just tiny but holy fucking cow you're tiny, tiny. 1 speck on a planet revolving 1 of a trillion suns in a galaxy of suns surrounded by a trillion galaxies. Insignificant. Except you're also part of the universe. Once a star exploded and the atoms that make up you have been around since time began. There is a creator. Worrying about nonsense like this... well... you figure it out. Not my job to explain any more than I have. ... oh please, that's not the subject of the post, give it a rest already.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:05 PM (/FnUH)

55

Dude, that was like 2000 years ago.

 

 

/sorry, couldn't resist

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (l/M30)

56 You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 06:04 PM (Ua6T/)

Correct.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (x3YFz)

57 Turtles, all the way down.

Posted by: toby928© at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (QupBk)

58 I sold my diary to Time Magazine; that was fun

Posted by: A. Hitler, who never went to a military academy at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (JyjXt)

59 Take my wife, please!

Posted by: Jesus Youngman Christ at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (r9IFY)

60 49 44 "Take my wife. Please." The Gospel according to Rodney Dangerfield -------- Wasn't it Henny Youngman who did that first? Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 06:04 PM (l/M30) You may be right. (Writes a check for $0.25 to send as a royalty) Whats the address?

Posted by: DM at May 02, 2014 02:06 PM (Ztudx)

61 Yeah curious why anti religionists would get excited about Jesus possibly having a wife. Assume Karen King has some book coming out or something or needed to earn extra money on the lecture circuit. Hard to believe she is an innocent bystander in perpetuating the fraud.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 02:07 PM (+0txR)

62 I learned a new word: APOCRYPHAL ...always an edumacational experience here at the HQ!

Posted by: CanaDave at May 02, 2014 02:07 PM (40DZn)

63 <i>I mean, as silly as that sounds, that's the only semi-plausible scenario I can see for someone slipping this fragment to King anonymously -- that the fragment is Banned by the Vatican, and he's a priest who wants the Truth About Jesus and His Gal to Come Out, but is afraid to do so himself.</i>

I would add one other possibility, just so I can be argumentative. If the anonymous person had info he believed that was true, but thought that if it was known to come from him in particular, its believability would be reduced. Like if Michael Mann was the guy, there would be plenty of people who would dismiss it automatically if they knew it came from Mann (including me). No reason to even give it a serious look, if it came from Mann, it must be a hoax.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at May 02, 2014 02:07 PM (IN7k+)

64 >>> I give you : Piltdown Man. Sorry, got no room in the basement for it.

Posted by: fluffy at May 02, 2014 02:08 PM (Ua6T/)

65 I learned a new word: APOCRYPHAL ...always an edumacational experience here at the HQ! Posted by: CanaDave at May 02, 2014 06:07 PM (40DZn) Tomorrow's word is "metanoia"

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:08 PM (yz6yg)

66 Gospel of Jesus' Wife = A cook book

(for sammiches)
((made from the multiplied loaves of bread))

Posted by: yeah, I went there at May 02, 2014 02:08 PM (Q2bPn)

67 Grrr... Square brackets instead of angle brackets.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at May 02, 2014 02:08 PM (IN7k+)

68 Other things that are suspicious about the "Jesus' Wife" fragment... An entire rant about the "difference between men and women" is straight-up copied from an episode of Everyone Loves Raymond.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:08 PM (/FnUH)

69 oh please, that's not the subject of the post, give it a rest already.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:05 PM (/FnUH)

It's a post about religion and the significance of whether or not jesus was married. 

You have a burr up your ass about me, that's fine.  Take it up in e-mail or ban me. 

It's your site, brother.  Your call.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (x3YFz)

70 didn't Reuben take Jacob's wife? Jews always tell the joke first.

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (bJm7W)

71 My first clue it was fake?  A "Bible scholar" going by "Ms." King.

Red flags were flying around my computer.


Posted by: Dang at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (MNq6o)

72 John Prine "The Missing Years"

Posted by: J. Chevers Loophole at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (ahBY0)

73 >>>I would add one other possibility, just so I can be argumentative. If the anonymous person had info he believed that was true, but thought that if it was known to come from him in particular, its believability would be reduced. Like if Michael Mann was the guy, there would be plenty of people who would dismiss it automatically if they knew it came from Mann (including me). No reason to even give it a serious look, if it came from Mann, it must be a hoax. who would have a reputation suggesting that any documents he presents are in fact hoaxes, except for a man known to have previously presented hoaxes to the world?

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (/FnUH)

74 I'm still waiting to see what's in Al Capone's safe...

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (9+ccr)

75 You know how I know these "scholars" are FOS? When they proceed to investigative study with: "Although the scholars involved signed nondisclosure agreements preventing them from sharing the data with the wider scholarly community..." That is what rational, honest, diligent scholars would call "unscholarly". Plebes obviously have a better word. "Bullshit."

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (1CroS)

76 Can we get a blinking GIF to explain this?

Posted by: Jean at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (Aqvh6)

77 Was she planning to reveal another papyrus that put the wife's age at 8 in order to say "see, Mohammed wasn't the only one, it was a thing back then, Swearsies Islam isn't based on the ramblings of a creepy pedophile, but so what if it is, yours was too, so there!"

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (+0txR)

78

Would make a kick-ass sitcom, though.

 

Family Tithes?

 

Naw. that's lame.

Posted by: Artie Cognomen at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (RwwCT)

79 Other things that are suspicious about the "Jesus' Wife" fragment... At the crucifixion John was heard to say, "Yea, verily, shit hath done got real"

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:09 PM (yz6yg)

80 Rigorous examination of sources, methodology and computations.  What does that even mean?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 02, 2014 02:10 PM (WCi6Q)

81 >>>You have a burr up your ass about me, that's fine. Take it up in e-mail or ban me. i don't have a burr up my ass about you.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:10 PM (/FnUH)

82 Tangentially related but if the universe and/or God isn't busy, could he/it cause a cheeseburger to lodge sideways in Bob Beckel's throat?

“Let’s begin with the obvious here, did somebody somewhere decide it would be in the best interest of the presidential campaign to not have this thing out the way it was and that the talking points should be different? Yes, I agree with that… So what?”

Today on The Five.

Posted by: B at May 02, 2014 02:10 PM (6iEQd)

83 DUDE..... That was like 900 years ago.

Posted by: Tommy Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at May 02, 2014 02:10 PM (jucos)

84 >>> didn't Reuben take Jacob's wife? Mom? Gross!

Posted by: Reuben at May 02, 2014 02:10 PM (Ua6T/)

85 wait, doesn't the Book of Mormon cover some of J's missing years? Dunno, just asking from vague recollections.

Posted by: mallfly at May 02, 2014 02:11 PM (bJm7W)

86 Meh. Show me a fragment that proves that the True Messiah, Barack Obama, is actually married and not just hiding behind a "beard", and I will be impressed.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 02, 2014 02:11 PM (EI7kF)

87 Another sign it was fake?  Hello Kitty stationery.

Posted by: Dang at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (MNq6o)

88 other problems with "Jesus' Wife" fragment... Keeps referring to "granularity"

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (/FnUH)

89 Metanoia (psychology), the process of experiencing a psychotic "break down" and subsequent, positive psychological re-building or "healing" It fits!

Posted by: CanaDave at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (40DZn)

90 But "Stuff Jesus Said" was passed to me by a no-shit Roman centurion named Lucius Ramirus!

Posted by: Cerebral Paul Z. at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (7zRva)

91 After all, any atheist of course considers the whole of the Bible a hoax. Popular books claim that almost the entirety of the Bible is "Forged," as one book title puts it. But that's stupid. Nearly every Christian believes each book of the Bible was written by a human hand in the author's native tongue. It would be like saying Dan Brown's work was "forged" because it's bunk. It's easy enough, and perfectly rational, to reject the underlying theology of what's written, but as a historical text, the standards of verification are the same as for any ancient work.

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (T0NGe)

92 Take my wife, please.

I took my wife to the Sinai during a sand storm, told her it was the Sahara, and she still made it back home.

Posted by: Jesus Youngman at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (UzPAd)

93 53 Frauds have many times been accepted in archaeology.I give you : Piltdown Man. Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 06:05 PM (zqvg6) I know.

Posted by: Evolutionary Theory at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (hPiSU)

94 I was recently slipped a Gospel fragment from the perspective of the Archangel Gabriel. As it happens. I think it deals with the Virgin Birth. Translated from the Coptic, I think (the MS is slightly stained) it begins "dear Hustler"

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (gdYzK)

95 Kinds related kinda cool fact about my kinda cool kid. One of his professors at the university he graduated from is one of the scholars who works on the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:12 PM (oMKp3)

96 "Rigorous examination of sources, methodology and computations. What does that even mean?" Sounds like the work of math witches.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 02, 2014 02:13 PM (gOoFi)

97 73>> Jack Sparrow! Youre socking Ace. 

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 02, 2014 02:13 PM (WCi6Q)

98 You have a burr up your ass about me, that's fine. Take it up in e-mail or ban me.


i don't have a burr up my ass about you.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:10 PM (/FnUH)

then what, specifically, is your complaint about that post?

"give it a rest" is a bit vague.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:13 PM (x3YFz)

99 So it's a cover up! He said. So what? He said. No one will do anything about it anyway, he said. So shut up, he said. Sorry, channeling bob beckel there for a minute. I apologize if you have no sense of humor.

Posted by: Maximillius Fail at May 02, 2014 02:13 PM (NU4/6)

100 You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here. And whether or not it is plain to you, the universe is laughing behind your back.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (0HooB)

101 Frauds have many times been accepted in archaeology.I give you : Piltdown Man. Science! Don't question it, you denier!

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (T0NGe)

102 i don't have a burr up my ass about you.

Posted by: ace

A burp in the ass is a fart.

Posted by: Dang at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (MNq6o)

103 Even if the writing had been made in 600 AD, it doesn't make it true. Seriously, you guys, you want people in 30,000 AD reading about an Ewok named Ace and automatically assuming it's true?

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (8c12T)

104

"Everybody Lies" ...we heard this from the Left, when their messiah got caught in bold-faced lies.

 

In fact, the Left uses this "Everybody Lies" excuse whenever one of their own is exposed as a liar.

 

This is what the Leftists want us to believe.

 

Well...if 'everybody lies', then how far back does that go?

Has everybody lied going back thru  the entire history of Man?

 

And if 'everybody lies'...then doesn't it follow that saying "everybody lies" is a lie as well?

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (l/M30)

105 Art forgery is fascinating to read about. They have amazing techniques to make something look old, stuff that can fool even experts sometimes. Interestingly, some art is forged for the uber rich (or the original is replaced with the forgery and the rich have the original). Thomas Crowne Affair, not just a movie...

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (+0txR)

106 >>>then what, specifically, is your complaint about that post? "give it a rest" is a bit vague. ... because the topic of the post is a lot more focused than the general "God is real, all you atheists are stupid morons" rant you want to get into.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (/FnUH)

107 Metanoia (psychology), the process of experiencing a psychotic "break down" and subsequent, positive psychological re-building or "healing" It fits! Posted by: CanaDave at May 02, 2014 06:12 PM (40DZn) Metanoia (theology) a transliteration of the Greek μετἀνοια, many versions of the New Testament translate metanoia/μετἀνοια as "repentance." MetanoiaÂ’s verbal cognate metanoeo/μετανοἐω is translated by the word repent. Jus' sayin'

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:14 PM (yz6yg)

108 It begs the question: Why? Why is it so darned important to establish Jesus Christ had a wife? Answer: So they could say He was banging a broad, that's why. To tarnish His purity and make Him carnal...a mere man.

Posted by: Soothsayer, performance artist at May 02, 2014 02:15 PM (dcmpT)

109 Sam Kinison had it right. NO WAY the guy was married...

Posted by: The DNC at May 02, 2014 02:16 PM (yv+63)

110 >>>Art forgery is fascinating to read about. They have amazing techniques to make something look old, stuff that can fool even experts sometimes. Interestingly, some art is forged for the uber rich (or the original is replaced with the forgery and the rich have the original). Thomas Crowne Affair, not just a movie... yeah I love this shit. Anything involving forgery is interesting. I love learning the stupid little secrets. One secret I learned from that academic post (the last link): Apparently ink made from "lampblack" or "soot" (it's called both) cannot be accurately dated by carbon dating methods, which is why it is the favored "ancient ink" of forgers, and why this guy (at the last link) immediately suspected a forgery. He doesn't explain why it can't be dated, though. I was trying to figure that out.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:16 PM (/FnUH)

111 That one may be a fake but our Gospel of Biggus Dickus looks to blow the doors off the whole issue of celibacy, and whether Jesus engaged in 3-somes.

Stay tuned.

Posted by: Karen King, Jesus Expert at May 02, 2014 02:16 PM (5UteM)

112 108 Of course.

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:16 PM (zqvg6)

113 Why didn't you just say 'repentence'?...I think you're just trying to signalize for positional good

Posted by: CanaDave at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (40DZn)

114 In fact, the Left uses this "Everybody Lies" excuse whenever one of their own is exposed as a liar.

Posted by: wheatie


I remember them having a problem with Bush's lies when they weren't even lies.

Posted by: Dang at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (MNq6o)

115 Posted by: Soothsayer, performance artist at May 02, 2014 06:15 PM (dcmpT) You mean, the lefty scholars have an agenda??! I am flabbergasted.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (oMKp3)

116 Fortunately, my copy of Jesus' high school yearbook is guaranteed authentic.

Posted by: --- at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (MMC8r)

117 A burp in the ass is a fart. Posted by: Dang at May 02, 2014 06:14 PM (MNq6o) You can't light a burp on fire after doing shots. So, no, a burp in the ass is not a fart...

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (8c12T)

118 My niece used to say her butt sneezed when she farted. Cracked me up.

Posted by: J. Chevers Loophole at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (ahBY0)

119 If you like art forgery and crap about antiques, I recommend LOVEJOY, an old BBC series.

Posted by: Soothsayer, performance artist at May 02, 2014 02:17 PM (dcmpT)

120 He stayed out THREE DAYS and then you know what he tried to tell me he'd been doing?

Posted by: Jesus' Wife at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (MMC8r)

121 82 Today on The Five.

They should really call it the 5 1/2. That sanctimonious turd makes me pop a vein every time I see him. I hope they find him like David Caradine with his suspenders around his neck in a bathroom.

But a cheeseburger will do.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (pgQxn)

122 additional signs of forgery in "Jesus' Wife" gospel-- Jesus closes a sermon with Greek words for "Smell ya later"

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (/FnUH)

123 61 Yeah curious why anti religionists would get excited about Jesus possibly having a wife. Assume Karen King has some book coming out or something or needed to earn extra money on the lecture circuit. Hard to believe she is an innocent bystander in perpetuating the fraud. Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 06:07 PM (+0txR) That's pretty obvious. "See the bible is wrong! And all you believe from it is wrong! You are suckers and should renounce your beliefs. "

Posted by: Buzzion at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (JBEAz)

124 The use  of   "integrative complexity"   was another tell.

Posted by: Count de Monet at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (BAS5M)

125 Anyway I think it's hilarious that Karen King got punk't. If they could take Elaine Pagels down too, my day would be complete. Neo gnostic new-age apologists rank very low on my scale of how I esteem biblical scholars.

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at May 02, 2014 02:18 PM (gdYzK)

126 because the topic of the post is a lot more focused than the general "God is real, all you atheists are stupid morons" rant you want to get into.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:14 PM (/FnUH)

I called no one a moron.  I don't want to get into a rant.  My heart rate is about 50 bpm.  Not excited at all.

I'm attempting to make the point, evidently unsuccessfully, that the entire subject is simply getting lost in the weeds.

My delivery was too point blank.  I'll work on it.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:19 PM (x3YFz)

127 My sister gave my son an Easter card that had 3 women riding camels with bumper stickers, one said "my son is an honor student" one said "my son is a doctor" and one said "my son is God" it was funny.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 02:19 PM (+0txR)

128 Popular books claim that almost the entirety of the Bible is "Forged," as one book title puts it. IIRC, current Biblical scholarship supports the idea that 7 of Paul's letters were actually written by Paul, with the authorship of the other 6 letters being in dispute. That hardly adds up to a claim that the "entirety of the Bible" is "forged." I think its fascinating that Paul's authentic writings actually predate the Gospels. (Paul died in about 60 AD, about the time that the earliest Gospel, Mark, was written.)

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2014 02:19 PM (8ZskC)

129  @gretawire  ·  13m

TUNE IN: Rep. Trey Gowdy joins me ‘On the Record’ tonight at 7p ET to talk new #Benghazi docs, Kerry subpoena. #Greta

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at May 02, 2014 02:19 PM (pASf2)

130 Top Men...and Women...from Harvard!!!!

Posted by: Better Feared than Loved at May 02, 2014 02:19 PM (crkWb)

131 The fragmented papyrus was actual an original handwritten selections of jokes written by Rodney Dangerfield. Other small fragments included the words: "take" and "please"

Posted by: seamrog at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (bgtzl)

132 That's not funny.

Posted by: Sillius Soddus at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (gdYzK)

133 121 If he chokes on a cheeseburger Eric Bolling will just save him again.

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (zqvg6)

134 Does this mean he has to give back the wedding presents?

Posted by: --- at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (MMC8r)

135 61 Yeah curious why anti religionists would get excited about Jesus possibly having a wife.
***

Not so strange considering that a lot of so-called "atheists" are atheists simply because their Mom and Dad weren't and thus they spend great amounts of energy talking about something they "don't believe in" trying to convince themselves.  I've heard more about the Lord from atheists over the years than I have from Christians.  Not sure which side reflects the worse on that fact.

And no, I am not slamming atheists who reached their beliefs after a lot of thought, time, and effort on their part.  I may not agree with you but it's your business and your life.  You're in charge of you. 


Posted by: B at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (6iEQd)

136 What I find a little strange is the zeal on display. If atheism isn't a religion, why the zeal?

Posted by: Caliban at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (DrC22)

137 ace,

Lesson learned.  Not kidding.  Thanks.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:20 PM (x3YFz)

138 >>>I'm attempting to make the point, evidently unsuccessfully, that the entire subject is simply getting lost in the weeds. i'm not telling you you can't write whatever you want, but I am saying it's a bit annoying. You say "we're getting lost in the weeds," by which you mean you are not interested in the actual post, and just want to assert that God Is Real. It's not that you're not allowed to do so. I'm not banning anyone over this. But i can say it's annoying.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:21 PM (/FnUH)

139 Jesus was not only married, he was divorced. Twice. Hence his willingness to die for us. Anything to make it stop. Seriously though, need to differentiate between a contemporary (6-900 CE/AD) fragment that was fiction, wrong, deliberately constructed as a fake; versus a modern forgery attempting to represent itself as a contemporary work. It appears this is one of the later. Although it would be more enjoyable if it was a 6-900 CE scammer's work... "Hey buddy! I got an authentic scroll fragment here that says Jesus was married! For you, only 100 silver Scrotaries!"

Posted by: Zsa Zsa Gabor at May 02, 2014 02:21 PM (W7zKe)

140 More importantly, to "prove" Christians incorrectly interpret the Bible. You see, Jesus was in favor of obamacare....it's in the Bible. And Jesus, like obama, was "technically" a socialist. It's right there in the Bible.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:21 PM (dcmpT)

141 KOOLER THAN JESUS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC-SeW7hScU

Posted by: My Life with Thrill Kill Kult at May 02, 2014 02:21 PM (diTQe)

142 Oh and Jesus hated guns. I mean hated them. It's in the Bible.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (dcmpT)

143 Dan Brown probably already finished a novel based on this.

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (zqvg6)

144 105 Art forgery is fascinating to read about. They have amazing techniques to make something look old, stuff that can fool even experts sometimes. Interestingly, some art is forged for the uber rich (or the original is replaced with the forgery and the rich have the original). Thomas Crowne Affair, not just a movie...Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 02, 2014 06:14 PM (+0txR) Yep. Part of the reason I love White Collar. They did an episode about a bible stolen from a church and it was surprisingly respectful of religion. To the point that it kind of made me do a double take. And one of the main characters, FBI agent who is as smart/smarter than the main thief, has a refreshingly solid and supportive marriage. Plus rollicking adventures, smart writing and pretty things; good times. Sad this is the last season.

Posted by: LizLem at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (yRwC8)

145 I should say that when I say stuff like "Give it a rest" it sounds a lot like a threat, as I'm the moderator. I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a command (though I can see how it can be seen that way). I meant "give it a rest" as a cry of frustration at a threadjacking.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (/FnUH)

146 84 >>> didn't Reuben take Jacob's wife? Jacob's wife took a Reuben, but what she really wanted was a salad.

Posted by: Caliban at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (DrC22)

147 For lefties, the only true son of god is jefs. Anything else is blasphemy.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (Q8vlx)

148

108
It begs the question: Why?

 

Why is it so darned important to establish Jesus Christ had a wife?

 

Answer: So they could say He was banging a broad, that's why. To tarnish His purity and make Him carnal...a mere man.

 

Posted by: Soothsayer

 

----------

 

That makes sense.

 

But then...why does having sex with a woman make a man 'impure'?

 

It doesn't bother me to think that Jesus may have had sex.

It doesn't diminish Him in my eyes.

 

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (l/M30)

149 110 He doesn't explain why it can't be dated, though. I was trying to figure that out. Just a guess, but.... the typical dating for that kind of material would be carbon-14 dating, right? We get soot from burning things--directly messing with something's carbon content. So you'd probably get crazy dates that are unreliable because you can't depend on any sort of natural rate of carbon occurrence and breakdown...

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 02, 2014 02:22 PM (qk1L5)

150
"LEAVE JESUS ALONE!111!"


---- Luke 1:31

Posted by: Karen King, Jesus Expert at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (5UteM)

151 Lesson learned. Not kidding. Thanks. Forget it; he's rolling.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (dcmpT)

152 Answer: So they could say He was banging a broad, that's why. To tarnish His purity and make Him carnal...a mere man. Too many people just can't seem to handle the notion of someone actually being a better person than them, so they have to find fault with them. In this case, they picked the Wrong Dude.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (0HooB)

153 Honestly, I thought the FoxNews interview with the "Dude" guy would prompt this video on the blog again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xtNr5-up0U&feature=player_embedded "He is calling you DUDE!"

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (T0NGe)

154 Oh and Jesus hated guns. I mean hated them. OTOH, John the Baptist was huge on the Second Amendment.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (8ZskC)

155
--I believe it's the apocryphal Gospel of James that portrays Jesus as kind of a dick as a boy, picking on other children with miracles.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 06:02 PM (GW/jL)

Really?

Your own fantasy, maybe; or a Hollywood flick.


I could be wrong. But I don't recall reading that from the "other" gospels which the Emperor Constantine and the dogmatic orthodox Christians didn't like, ordering the genocide of the original Christians in order to make the kingdom not of this earth his own personal worldly Empire. Burning records along with believers.


Those who refused the Parables of Christ for not being LITERAL enough, too confusing or something, "Master, what are you saying, what do you mean? -- included his disciples. Until they quit expecting what they'd preconceived as what to expect. "We don't get it" Christians have descendents who also eschew metaphor. Materialism denies the Holy Spirit. And that blasphemy is the only one which is never forgiven, according to Jesus.


I was reading Ezekiel yesterday, wondering about contemporary American Christians expecting the Spiritual heavenly realm and God to look like what European Renaissance artists expressed. Comfort zone and all. I remember a Protestant mother snubbing a Hindu mother for paying homage to Compassion through Lord Ganeshe's festivity. As if any Hindu god looks stranger than what Ezekiel saw and wrote, which btw was paralleled in vision written by John the Revelator.


My dad said to never try to build a fence around God. If nothing else, that's one thing I learned from him which I know to be truth.


Anyway, what will be, will be. Not my job to make anyone deny their own God experience.

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 02, 2014 02:23 PM (gmrH5)

156 I should say that when I say stuff like "Give it a rest" it sounds a lot like a threat, as I'm the moderator.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a command (though I can see how it can be seen that way).

I meant "give it a rest" as a cry of frustration at a threadjacking.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:22 PM (/FnUH)

solid copy.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:24 PM (x3YFz)

157 In many ways, this is the story of Obama.

Posted by: MSNBC at May 02, 2014 02:24 PM (MMC8r)

158 Because: what does God need with a starship... or a piece of tail?

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:24 PM (dcmpT)

159 Reading quickly, I thought Ace wrote 'Argentine lunchbox with a penchant for poison'.  Now that would be a plot device.

Posted by: Joe at May 02, 2014 02:24 PM (QFnhZ)

160 OTOH, John the Baptist was huge on the Second Amendment. John the Baptist. Definitely a moron.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:24 PM (oMKp3)

161 I have been reading the Nag Hammadi Scriptures really compelling, esp St Thomas I like the Gospel of Mary (the Nag Hammadi scroll not the forgery) Several references in Nag Hammadi indicate 7 female apostles and of course Mary Magdalene was an apostle As a lapsed Catholic I am so so happy to have the Gospel of Thomas it is comforting esp while the church continues its devolution (St Malachy baby)

Posted by: ginaswo at May 02, 2014 02:25 PM (VGpgb)

162 It says Jesus had a wife right there in the gospel of St. Hefner.

Posted by: --- at May 02, 2014 02:25 PM (MMC8r)

163 No God?

Explain Kate Upton.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 02, 2014 02:26 PM (5UteM)

164 >>>Just a guess, but.... the typical dating for that kind of material would be carbon-14 dating, right? We get soot from burning things--directly messing with something's carbon content. So you'd probably get crazy dates that are unreliable because you can't depend on any sort of natural rate of carbon occurrence and breakdown... nah I don't think that's it Maybe something like this: A living thing's Carbon 14 to Carbon 12 ratio remains constant during life, as during life it's constantly incorporating new carbon (in both 14 and 12 versions). but when it dies, the carbon 14 begins decaying, so we no how old something is by how much (how little, really) carbon 14 is in it compared to carbon 12. Now, maybe with soot, it's easy enough to find "old carbon" -- maybe you just need to find some scorched wood at the site of a very old fire. Maybe it's relatively easy to find burned things in archeological sites, which will provide you, tehn, with soot with the right age, as far as Carbon 14 decay.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:26 PM (/FnUH)

165 "They say Jesus had brothers and sisters, but I can't buy that. I had enough problems with my older brother being quarterback."

Posted by: Bob Goldthwaite at May 02, 2014 02:26 PM (Ua6T/)

166 When I first heard about this "fragment" I figured it was something from those so-called Gnostic gospels.  And so it was.  I just don't like getting into religious arguments, there's no future in it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:27 PM (T2V/1)

167 Okay, I'll put it another way: It's academia's attempt to fuck with you, and screw with your beliefs. It's a mind-game; they'd love to tell you that everything you believed was wrong.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:27 PM (dcmpT)

168 >>additional signs of forgery in "Jesus' Wife" gospel-- I got suspicious when I saw it started with "I'm a Concerned Christian Conservative, but..."

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 02, 2014 02:27 PM (SUKHu)

169 And how come all this bullshit gets forged in Coptic? Why not Greek? And what's Syriac, chopped liver? ...I mean, other than that millions of people speak modern Greek / had to learn it in school / dealt with it in the ministry. So BS gets called quicker

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 02:27 PM (gdYzK)

170 There's a Brit program called Fake or Fortune that is pretty good. People submit paintings they have and the experts do the research and tests. Ic can get tricky though because there are societies that are considered experts and if you submit your art to them for examination, if they determine it is a fake, they will destroy it. Sort of assholish behavior but what can you expect from the fwench.

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:27 PM (8c12T)

171 Good thread, Ace. I agree with your conclusions. I know you have studied law, but any experience in psychology? I have lots and lots and can boil down my thousands of hours of study and experience to the following knowledge -- the mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (j1NwQ)

172 --I believe it's the apocryphal Gospel of James that portrays Jesus as kind of a dick as a boy, picking on other children with miracles. One of the many gnostic gospels. Gnosticism was a more general philosophy that grafted itself onto Christianity before it was definitively excised by the church. All of the church fathers rejected it but every few years, somebody rediscovers gnosticism all over again and thinks they've uncovered "the real truth".

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (T0NGe)

173 Botched execution.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (ZWnIg)

174 A living thing's Carbon 14 to Carbon 12 ratio remains constant during life, as during life it's constantly incorporating new carbon (in both 14 and 12 versions). but when it dies, the carbon 14 begins decaying, so we no how old something is by how much (how little, really) carbon 14 is in it compared to carbon 12.

Now, maybe with soot, it's easy enough to find "old carbon" -- maybe you just need to find some scorched wood at the site of a very old fire. Maybe it's relatively easy to find burned things in archeological sites, which will provide you, tehn, with soot with the right age, as far as Carbon 14 decay.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:26 PM (/FnUH)

This is only reliable in certain materials, yes?

Crap, now AoS is a chemistry class.  brb.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (x3YFz)

175 I know a lot of Guitar Experts who get paid to authenticate instruments. What they don't know is downright scary.

Posted by: garrett at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (diTQe)

176 Dan Brown probably already finished a novel based on this. Only if someone else wrote it first.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (dcmpT)

177 Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 06:27 PM (gdYzK) You are a very interesting guy. Seriously not kidding.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:28 PM (oMKp3)

178 The Bridal Chamber, the lost sacrament, mentioned in the Canon as well as in the "other" gospels from Christ's apostles -- my guess is that when Jesus said "My wife" he'd have been referencing the relationship he created as the Bride Groom at the Wedding Feast. He told enough parables regarding the coming event. Remember the wise and the foolish virgins, oil supply on hand when THE moment arrives.

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 02, 2014 02:29 PM (gmrH5)

179 Look, you crumb bum, I'm a star. Star, star, star. I don't get a million dollars to act out of a trench. I played Miss St John the Baptist in a trench, and I played Miss Napoleon Bonaparte in a trench, and I played Miss Alexander Fleming in a furrow so if you want this scene played out of a trench, well you just get yourself a goddamn stuntman. I played Miss Galileo in a groove and I played Mrs Jesus Christ in a geological syncline, so don't...

Posted by: Miss Evans at May 02, 2014 02:29 PM (9IMoS)

180 73 >>>I would add one other possibility, just so I can be argumentative. If the anonymous person had info he believed that was true, but thought that if it was known to come from him in particular, its believability would be reduced. Like if Michael Mann was the guy, there would be plenty of people who would dismiss it automatically if they knew it came from Mann (including me). No reason to even give it a serious look, if it came from Mann, it must be a hoax.

who would have a reputation suggesting that any documents he presents are in fact hoaxes, except for a man known to have previously presented hoaxes to the world?

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:09 PM (/FnUH)

++++

Him for sure, but also, anyone who would be suspected of having another agenda, or of being the kind of person who was willing to be dishonest. Say one of those TV preachers. If they somehow came into possession of the real thing, and they thought it was important that the world should know, but was worried that their past words and deeds would throw doubt on it. That if it was known that the evidence had passed through Jimmy Swaggart's hands, for example, there are many people who would not need to hear anymore. They would think, if Jimmy Swaggart is pushing it, it must be bullshit. If Swaggart didn't want himself to be a distraction in getting the truth out, then he could go for anonimity.

Of course, you might point out that my example rests on the laughable proposition that Swaggart could be concerned about anyone or anything beyond himself. But, that kind of just makes my point.


Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at May 02, 2014 02:29 PM (IN7k+)

181 Speaking of authenticating instruments... I enjoyed RED VIOLIN very much, even though I expected to dislike it.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:30 PM (dcmpT)

182 In the Gospel of Jesus' Wife, the wife was the Macguffin.

Posted by: Fritz at May 02, 2014 02:30 PM (UzPAd)

183

173 Botched execution.

 

Heh.

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:30 PM (l/M30)

184 cannot be accurately dated by carbon dating

I'm guessing the dating only tells when the original organic material died.  Not when it was burnt?  With the burning mixing the original C14/C12 with atmospheric C14/C12 at the time of the fire.

Posted by: DaveA at May 02, 2014 02:31 PM (DL2i+)

185 >>>Seriously though, need to differentiate between a contemporary (6-900 CE/AD) fragment that was fiction, wrong, deliberately constructed as a fake; versus a modern forgery attempting to represent itself as a contemporary work. It appears this is one of the later. Although it would be more enjoyable if it was a 6-900 CE scammer's work... ... right. What annoys me is that these people are acting as if they don't know that forgery is not a NEW thing -- there have been forgeries since shortly after they discovered writing. They selectively treated "old" as "accurate" even though, obviously, they do not treat the bible as accurate just because it is provably old. Old does not mean accurate. Frex, there are many fake Rembrants that can be proven to come from almost exactly the time Rembrant was painting. Proves not so much: People were forging Rembrants since Rembrant was making real Rembrants. Or they'd pass off one of his student-imitator's paintings as one of his. Etc.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:31 PM (/FnUH)

186 The Shroud of Turin? It's what's left of the rented tuxedo that Jesus wore at his wedding. It's even got wine stains on it.

Posted by: Karen King at May 02, 2014 02:31 PM (8ZskC)

187 Proves not so much: People were forging Rembrants since Rembrant was making real Rembrants. Or they'd pass off one of his student-imitator's paintings as one of his. Etc. This is why Art is best made in a factory.

Posted by: Zombie Warhol at May 02, 2014 02:32 PM (diTQe)

188 185 Their agenda ace,they jump all over any story like this.Remember James Cameron found Jesus's tomb?

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:32 PM (zqvg6)

189 That anal aperture James Cameron was big into that shroud scam.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 02, 2014 02:32 PM (dcmpT)

190 Other problems with the "Jesus' wife" fragment:

When Jesus heals the paralyzed guy, he says, "Stand up, Chuck!"

Posted by: notropis at May 02, 2014 02:32 PM (bvlUm)

191 Now, maybe with soot, it's easy enough to find "old carbon" -- maybe you just need to find some scorched wood at the site of a very old fire. Maybe it's relatively easy to find burned things in archeological sites, which will provide you, tehn, with soot with the right age, as far as Carbon 14 decay. That would still lead to a consistent age for the Carbon 14 though, right? I take the comment that it's hard to get an accurate date to mean something more like the dates they get are all over the place. I don't think your theory would yield numerous/varying dates. Unless i have an incorrect notion of what he means by that type of ink being hard to date accurately.

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 02, 2014 02:32 PM (qk1L5)

192 Wha? I've waded into the Ben-Hur movie review.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 02:33 PM (T8H6k)

193 My theory is that Jesus was strong with the pimp hand.

Posted by: Anne Elk [Miss] at May 02, 2014 02:33 PM (W7zKe)

194
I'm guessing the dating only tells when the original organic material died. Not when it was burnt? With the burning mixing the original C14/C12 with atmospheric C14/C12 at the time of the fire.

Posted by: DaveA at May 02, 2014 06:31 PM (DL2i+)

I'm spinning up on it again, but yes.

Posted by: tangonine at May 02, 2014 02:33 PM (x3YFz)

195 Remember in Blackadder when Baldrick was selling forgeries of religious objects?

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:33 PM (8c12T)

196 173 Botched execution. Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 02, 2014 06:28 PM (ZWnIg) Double heh.

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:34 PM (T0NGe)

197 Jesus would never "said to them," he would "say unto them". This is obviously a fake to anyone who paid attention in Sunday school.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at May 02, 2014 02:34 PM (LWu6U)

198 192 Wha? I've waded into the Ben-Hur movie review.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 06:33 PM (T8H6k)



On a related score they are doing a remake of that movie.  The asshole that came up with that idea should be flogged in the Roman forum.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:34 PM (T2V/1)

199 Ho-ly Grail!!!

Posted by: Some Asshole with a Warbling Wife at May 02, 2014 02:34 PM (GW/jL)

200 >>>That would still lead to a consistent age for the Carbon 14 though, right? I take the comment that it's hard to get an accurate date to mean something more like the dates they get are all over the place. I don't think your theory would yield numerous/varying dates. Unless i have an incorrect notion of what he means by that type of ink being hard to date accurately. right well no one was very clear on whether soot was impossible to carbon-date or whether it was just easy for a forger to get soot that would sort of match the intended carbon-dating. they weren't clear on it; but they seem to agree that soot/lampblack ink is a forger's favored medium

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:35 PM (/FnUH)

201 Thanks, grammie. Come for the pr0n jokes, stay for the Syriac namedropping... I got another fragment lying around which called JC "ho endiapherotatos anēr en twi kosmwi". Stay thirsty, my friends

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 02:35 PM (gdYzK)

202 >>>I'm guessing the dating only tells when the original organic material died. Not when it was burnt? With the burning mixing the original C14/C12 with atmospheric C14/C12 at the time of the fire. oh interesting -- so you don't need ancient soot, you just need ancient wood! Then you burn it and make ink! Very cool.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:36 PM (/FnUH)

203 198 192 Wha? I've waded into the Ben-Hur movie review. Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 06:33 PM (T8H6k) On a related score they are doing a remake of that movie. The asshole that came up with that idea should be flogged in the Roman forum. Posted by: Vic at May 02, 2014 06:34 PM (T2V/1) You know what's ready for a reboot? Let me give you a hint: "I gave him an offer he couldn't refuse, dude."

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:36 PM (T0NGe)

204 Damn, thousands of fans gathered in Maple Leaf Square (temporarily named "Jurassic Park") to watch the Raptors-Nets game on Jumbotron.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:37 PM (GW/jL)

205 so you don't need ancient soot, you just need ancient wood! Bob Dole can help!

Posted by: Bob Dole at May 02, 2014 02:37 PM (diTQe)

206 Uh-oh. Ace is still around.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 02:37 PM (T8H6k)

207 Next they'll find out that the Gospel of Algore in the Church of Gaia is a big fraud

Posted by: kbdabear at May 02, 2014 02:37 PM (aTXUx)

208 Carbon-14 dating http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/cardat.html click the 'equilibrium' link.

Posted by: Maximillius Fail at May 02, 2014 02:38 PM (NU4/6)

209 One of the nice things about the internet is being able to see a lot of art in high definition and close up.

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (8c12T)

210 Geraldo Rivera said he found Jesus' safe..... stand by....

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (jucos)

211 It was an Original Rodney Dangerfield joke... from when he was young.. The full text was... Take my wife... please...

Posted by: Shecky Rimshot, Historian of Comedy at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (84gbM)

212 At this point, what difference does it make?

Posted by: Future President Cuckoldra at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (b7yum)

213 Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 06:36 PM (T0NGe) Using the old set from West Wing.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (T8H6k)

214 "Hey Buddy! I've got a piece of the True Cross here, stuck under Saint Flebitis' fingernail! For you, just 100 silver Scrotories! I'll throw in a piece of Sister Wargl's sandal for free!"

Posted by: Anne Elk [Miss] at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (W7zKe)

215 Forgers routinely use old paper and old materials to execute their modern forgeries. This is such an obvious thing I'm surprised anyone even has to say it. Not to mention the old counterfeiter's trick of bleaching/removing ink from One Dollar bills and using the paper to print One Hundred Dollar bills. The security strips embedded in bills is one of the best defenses against that technique. The late 90s Jason Patric film "Incognito" takes place in the art forgery world. The film is kind of meh, but the forgery tech stuff is supposed to be pretty accurate, and it's way cool.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (TIIx5)

216 210 good one LOL

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 02, 2014 02:39 PM (gmrH5)

217 Cicero-- I'm not 100% sure about all of Paul's writings predating all of the gospels. I'm inclined to buy the notion that Matthew was written first, not Mark. There are some striking similarities between the Didache and the Gospel of Matthew, and some guesses for the timing of the Didache are as early as the 40's. So the possibility of some version of Matthew in the 40's or 50's is plausible, to me. That said, i'll certainly agree that Paul's writings probably pre-date much of the gospels.

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 02, 2014 02:40 PM (qk1L5)

218 "The papyrus, along with a few other ancient papyri of lesser novelty, had been passed to King by an anonymous figure."

Detective Lucy Ramirez Strikes Again!

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 02, 2014 02:40 PM (XO6WW)

219 Conservatives: We don't like something we don't buy it, look at it or support it. Liberals: We don't like something, NO ONE will be allowed to look at it, buy it and will must support our efforts to rid the world of it! Not sure how that ties in but I thought I'd say it.

Posted by: Seems legit at May 02, 2014 02:41 PM (A98Xu)

220 stop making fun of my husband, Biggus Dickus

Posted by: Incontinentia Buttocks at May 02, 2014 02:41 PM (JyjXt)

221 And say it poorly! Booya!

Posted by: Seems legit at May 02, 2014 02:41 PM (A98Xu)

222

@85 wait, doesn't the Book of Mormon cover some of J's missing years? Dunno, just asking from vague recollections.

------------------

 

No.  Aside from several years at the start (during the reign of Zedekiah), the Book of Mormon is set in the Western Hemisphere.  Christ appears briefly, but only immediately following his resurrection.

 

Posted by: junior at May 02, 2014 02:41 PM (UWFpX)

223 Did someone mention the wanted to date ancient wood?

Posted by: Abe Vigoda at May 02, 2014 02:42 PM (jucos)

224 Yep. Part of the reason I love White Collar. Posted by: LizLem at May 02, 2014 06:22 PM (yRwC But the real reason is Matt Bomer always taking his shirt off.

Posted by: wooga at May 02, 2014 02:42 PM (waJ2a)

225

>>>wait, doesn't the Book of Mormon cover some of J's missing years? Dunno, just asking from vague recollections.

 

Not Jesus' childhood years, if that's what you mean. The BoM has a visit Jesus made to the Americas after his crucifixion. Other sheep so to say.

Posted by: bonhomme at May 02, 2014 02:42 PM (sRGV5)

226 Ace, I don't understand what this article means. Are you saying Barack isn't married to Michele?

Posted by: Havedash at May 02, 2014 02:43 PM (G1XMn)

227 Do you know you start a fire with ancient wood? Friction. LOTS of friction.

Posted by: Anne Elk [Miss] at May 02, 2014 02:43 PM (W7zKe)

228 But the real reason is Matt Bomer always taking his shirt off. Posted by: wooga at May 02, 2014 06:42 PM (waJ2a) Then picture him kissing his real life husband and the mood wanes.

Posted by: Seems legit at May 02, 2014 02:43 PM (A98Xu)

229 Carbon-14 dating \My parents never let carbon date until it was 16.

Posted by: --- at May 02, 2014 02:43 PM (MMC8r)

230 Remember of Lewis where they were ripping out pages from old books at the Bodleian and using it to forge letter by Keats and Mary Shelley and then selling them to unsuspecting Americans?

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (8c12T)

231 Other problems with the "Jesus' wife" fragment:

His last words on the cross: "This is the moment when the rise of the oceans begins to slow, and the planet begins to heal...."

Posted by: notropis at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (bvlUm)

232 Did someone mention the wanted to date ancient wood? Posted by: Abe Vigoda Ok. I LOL'd.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (d0Dmj)

233 hmmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_black maybe he didn't mean that lampblack (or "carbon black") couldn't be radiologically dated -- maybe he just meant it's easy for someone to make this old style of ink. In fact, the guy I linked indicates that that's all he means, here: http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20140411/ NEWS/140419994/religion-papyrus-referring-to-jesus-wife-is-more-likely-ancient I read him wrong; he's not talking about carbon dating at all. He just means the recipe for carbon black ink is very easy.

Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (/FnUH)

234 Wha? I've waded into the Ben-Hur movie review. Posted by: Golfman in NC at May 02, 2014 06:33 PM (T8H6k) On a related score they are doing a remake of that movie. The asshole that came up with that idea should be flogged in the Roman forum. Posted by: Vic at May 02, 2014 06:34 PM (T2V/1) Of course, the totally awesome Heston version of Ben Hur is also a remake, twice over (silent films in 1907 and 1925).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (TIIx5)

235 203  You know what's ready for a reboot?

Let me give you a hint: "I gave him an offer he couldn't refuse, dude."

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 06:36 PM (T0NGe)



That really would be sacrilege.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (T2V/1)

236 Posted by: ace at May 02, 2014 06:31 PM (/FnUH) But there were also a LOT of different sects of Christianity at the time... not all subscribed to the Roman church... or the Council of Nicea's editing of all the religious works... Could be a forgery.... could be some sects view... could be a modern fake...

Posted by: Shecky Rimshot, Historian of Comedy at May 02, 2014 02:44 PM (84gbM)

237 #229 -

That's a good one!

Posted by: notropis at May 02, 2014 02:45 PM (bvlUm)

238 You can play alternative story lines all day about the foundations of Christianity, but mess with the story about Mo, and your life is in danger.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at May 02, 2014 02:45 PM (tmFlQ)

239 You could go nuts trying to figure out the Synoptic Problem. It is fiendishly hard. Markan Priority only really works if you allow for a version of Mark we might not even had. Throw in the Diatesseron and OMGSPIDERSINMYBRAIN.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 02:45 PM (gdYzK)

240 "So close, in fact, that one of the typographical errors in an online edition of the “Gospel of Thomas” is replicated, uniquely, in the Jesus’ wife fragment." Amateurs. This is how kids get caught cheating off other kids' papers.

Posted by: Seems legit at May 02, 2014 02:46 PM (A98Xu)

241

Just because someone doesn't have sex...doesn't mean that they are 'Pure'.

 

I've always had a problem with that concept.

 

A person could be a virgin, and commit all sorts of heinous acts.

And yet they are 'pure' because they haven't ever had sex?

 

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:46 PM (l/M30)

242 Hmmmmmmm..... A guy in his mid thirties, living at home with Mom and Pop, drinking wine with 12 of his buddies? Not married.

Posted by: seamrog at May 02, 2014 02:46 PM (bgtzl)

243 Not Jesus' childhood years, if that's what you mean. The BoM has a visit Jesus made to the Americas after his crucifixion. Other sheep so to say. My granddad told me about that. He said Jesus gave him a sweater.

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren, Who Speaks With No Discernible Aboriginal Accent at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (8ZskC)

244 over in Europe in the 89s and 90s, the "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" thing was big


Jesus married Mary Madgadene, faked his death on the cross, and snuck off the the south of France and then Glastonbury with her--and had a son...



Posted by: Mikey Bagent at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (JyjXt)

245 11 I'm thrown by this Gospel of John forgery. You're thinking of the gospel of John Fogerty, which is in some cannon of something somewhere.

Posted by: Call me Ishmael at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (1mtKP)

246 Hmmmmmmm..... A guy in his mid thirties, living at home with Mom and Pop, drinking wine with 12 of his buddies? Not married. Posted by: seamrog at May 02, 2014 06:46 PM (bgtzl) Heh. You forgot the *mic drop*.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (TIIx5)

247 It is written: No man should be without TP!! http://youtu.be/m98Knl0O0Ek

Posted by: The Almighty Bungholio at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (GW/jL)

248 Posted by: Elizabeth Warren, Who Speaks With No Discernible Aboriginal Accent at May 02, 2014 06:47 PM (8ZskC) That made me giggle.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (oMKp3)

249 A person could be a virgin, and commit all sorts of heinous acts. And yet they are 'pure' because they haven't ever had sex? I think it has to do with being "forever unnagged."

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:47 PM (T0NGe)

250 234  Of course, the totally awesome Heston version of Ben Hur is also a remake, twice over (silent films in 1907 and 1925).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 06:44 PM (TIIx5)


I also have the '25 version but I don't like BnW silent films.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (T2V/1)

251 And yet they are 'pure' because they haven't ever had sex? Posted by: wheatie If they don't keep that thing scrubbed ain't nuthin pure.

Posted by: Mr. Wizard at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (gmrH5)

252 "Where's ya messhiah's wife nowwwwww!"

Posted by: Edward G at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (yv+63)

253 Uh-oh. Ace is still around.
On the bright side, MUMR effed-off after early trolling.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (9IMoS)

254  Hmmmmmmm.....

A guy in his mid thirties, living at home with Mom and Pop, drinking wine with 12 of his buddies?

Not married.

Posted by: seamrog at May 02, 2014 06:46 PM (bgtzl)

_______________

Sounds like..... my kinda guy!  Kind of a "Man's Country" in Judea....

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (jucos)

255 And what shyning said. Reza Aslan gains extra weasel points for just dumping Islamic propaganda on us in "no god but god", and pretending to be an impartial seeker for troof in "zealot"

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 02:48 PM (gdYzK)

256 My granddad told me about that. He said Jesus gave him a sweater. Posted by: Elizabeth Warren, Who Speaks With No Discernible Aboriginal Accent A (small) pox on your house.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at May 02, 2014 02:49 PM (j1NwQ)

257 Matthew, Mark, Luke...and DUCK!

Posted by: Anne Elk [Miss] at May 02, 2014 02:49 PM (W7zKe)

258 A guy in his mid thirties, living at home with Mom and Pop, drinking wine with 12 of his buddies? Not married. Posted by: seamrog at May 02, 2014 06:46 PM (bgtzl) Heh. You forgot the *mic drop*. Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 06:47 PM (TIIx5) don't forget... he had a problem with some Religious leaders... and hung out with a Hooker... And apparently was homeless for awhile...

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 02, 2014 02:49 PM (84gbM)

259 I also have the '25 version but I don't like BnW silent films. Posted by: Vic at May 02, 2014 06:48 PM (T2V/1) Oh brother. That's a hanging curve if I've ever seen one...... :0

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 02:50 PM (TIIx5)

260 @234 And even the first Ben Hur movie was a "remake":  the stage show toured the country with its own train. There was a treadmill for a team of horses, live on stage. The whole stage machinery was said to weigh over 40 tons. And the author (also the man who got Billy the Kid, ambassador to the Ottomans, a boy general in the Civil War) was still alive to collect the royalties.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at May 02, 2014 02:50 PM (xq1UY)

261 The Bookman's Tale  Charlie Lovett     

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at May 02, 2014 02:50 PM (uopHF)

262 When you're in the neighborhood, come see me in Babylon.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at May 02, 2014 02:50 PM (8ZskC)

263 and hung out with a Hooker... Worse. IRS agents.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (oMKp3)

264 Jesus just left Chicago And He's bound for New Orleans Well now, Jesus just left Chicago And He's bound for New Orleans Workin' from one end to the other And all points in between

Posted by: Gibbons, Hill, Beard at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (Fp7JI)

265 I enjoyed RED VIOLIN very much, even though I expected to dislike it.
Great. Now the thread is full of sects and violins!

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (9IMoS)

266 ...and had a temper tantrum and started a fight a temple.

Posted by: Maximillius Fail at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (NU4/6)

267 Hmmm.... and thinking on it... He had a Problem with Bankers.... and some Jews... Damn it!!! Ron Paul???? (I Know... straight ta hell....)

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (84gbM)

268 Up next: The Jesus Was A Fag Papyrus Fragment. Guarantee you the exact same people would be declaring it authentic.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 02, 2014 02:51 PM (oFCZn)

269 don't forget... he had a problem with some Religious leaders... and hung out with a Hooker... And apparently was homeless for awhile... Jesus was a Moron?

Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2014 02:52 PM (d0Dmj)

270 "And thine enemies, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it"

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 02, 2014 02:52 PM (gdYzK)

271 Great. Now the thread is full of sects and violins! And now i'm reminded of a great bumper sticker: Christians have the best sects.

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 02, 2014 02:52 PM (qk1L5)

272 Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 02, 2014 05:58 PM (j1NwQ) They have. Said he was studying Buddhism.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at May 02, 2014 02:52 PM (GDulk)

273 Heh, the dude who got rejected on TV a couple of nights ago at the game trying to kiss the girl just got to kiss her in front of the Jurassic Park crowd. Sweet.

Posted by: The Almighty Bungholio at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (GW/jL)

274 Jesus this, Jesus that. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. You'd think the world had only a single deity or something.

Posted by: Ahura Mazda at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (8ZskC)

275 don't forget... he had a problem with some Religious leaders... and hung out with a Hooker... And apparently was homeless for awhile... Skirted creel limits at least twice.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (Fp7JI)

276 >is suspiciously action-packed with Dan Brown-style Sacred Feminine agitation. This is clearly an attempt to discredit Catholic teaching. Two main elements of the translation include the discussion of the worthiness of Mary, and Jesus declaring, 'My wife...is able to be my disciple.' Take note of how this is a direct attack on Catholicism. In ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS Pope (as he was then) John Paul II lays down this reasoning. He starts quoting Paul VI "'These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men'" he moves on to clarify "In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church" He then brings up Mary "Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe." To which he concludes "Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." Now look go find the papyri translation and see how it in so very few words directly attacks, almost point for point Saint John Paul II reasoning in ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS. The final blow that makes it personal of course. Note how St JPII speaks of the Church in the feminine above "the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church" Well that's no accident. From the Catechism. CCC 796 "796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the "bridegroom."235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride "betrothed" to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236 The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb.237 "Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her."238 He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:239" Not only does the Papyri attack point for point the reasoning behind the Church not being able to ordain women, it also seeks to supplant the Church as the "Bride of Christ" and therefore not an authoritative teacher of Christ.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (0q2P7)

277 oh interesting -- so you don't need ancient soot, you just need ancient wood!

Then you burn it and make ink!

I dunno if that is all of it either, the atmospheric C14/C12 isn't constant either. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

gets confusing real quick

Posted by: DaveA at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (DL2i+)

278 /dumbass sock

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:53 PM (GW/jL)

279 Great, a white chick doing the urban yodeling thing with "O Canada." Barf.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:54 PM (GW/jL)

280 Hey Dack! Check out this Bathhouse Jesus fragment I, er, found. Scribbled in the back of a printed book from the 1700s. No you can't see the original

Posted by: Morton Smith at May 02, 2014 02:54 PM (gdYzK)

281 Jesus was a Moron? When we find the papyrus fragment where he made water into single malt scotch we'll know for sure.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 02, 2014 02:54 PM (8ZskC)

282

271...And now i'm reminded of a great bumper sticker: Christians have the best sects.

 

------

 

Even...butt sects?

Posted by: wheatie at May 02, 2014 02:55 PM (l/M30)

283 I guess James Cameron and Simcha won't be making that documentary after all. As for the woman who peddled this, she needs to be run out on a rail.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 02, 2014 02:55 PM (qMrVs)

284 Forgery has been around since a profit could be made from it. I I loved those old guys who could forge currency in the old days.

Posted by: J. Chevers Loophole at May 02, 2014 02:55 PM (ahBY0)

285 don't forget... he had a problem with some Religious leaders... and hung out with a Hooker... And apparently was homeless for awhile... Jesus was a Moron? Posted by: rickb223 at May 02, 2014 06:52 PM (d0Dmj) Well, there was the Easter spelunking episode. Not to mention the zombie thing.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 02, 2014 02:56 PM (TIIx5)

286 Jesus' overthruster actually worked pretty okay. Took 3 days to boot it up, though.

Posted by: St. John Bigbooté at May 02, 2014 02:56 PM (KAxfl)

287 As for the Dan Brown books, I actually like them.  But they would be much better if he did not put that BS in the frontage about them being based on facts. Even the book the lost Symbol has that in the front and the inaccuracies in his "facts" are easily found.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:56 PM (T2V/1)

288 wheatie, i'll just note that it puts a new spin on "missionary baptist" churches and leave it at that...

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at May 02, 2014 02:56 PM (qk1L5)

289 Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 06:54 PM (GW/jL) The game is starting already?? Thanks!

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 02:57 PM (oMKp3)

290 Got this genuine 8-page Tiajuana bible here...

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at May 02, 2014 02:57 PM (uopHF)

291 I have the original iPapyrus of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus gave it to Pilate as a gift.

Posted by: AmishDude at May 02, 2014 02:57 PM (T0NGe)

292 The Bible and all related materials (and the Koran, etc.) was written by men, copied by men, translated by men, edited by men, and manipulated by men for their own gain. We're lucky it doesn't place Jerusalem in Ethiopia, 125th Street. Despite that, it has some amazing wisdom for those willing to think about some of the lessons passed on.

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 02, 2014 02:57 PM (W7zKe)

293 287 Right,I have no problem with them as fiction.Just don't pretend it is otherwise.

Posted by: steevy at May 02, 2014 02:58 PM (zqvg6)

294 I'm going to guess that ace loved Catch Me If You Can and owns the DVD.

Posted by: buzzion at May 02, 2014 02:58 PM (LI48c)

295 289 Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 06:54 PM (GW/jL) The game is starting already?? Thanks! Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 06:57 PM (oMKp3) --That was from Raptors-Nets. Rangers-Penguins is about to start as well. Clicking back and forth to ensue.

Posted by: logprof at May 02, 2014 02:59 PM (GW/jL)

296 new one

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 02:59 PM (T2V/1)

297 Â… 200 million guns a'load, Satan cries take aim Â…

Posted by: The Prophet John Fogerty at May 02, 2014 03:00 PM (1mtKP)

298 Posted by: OG Celtic-American at May 02, 2014 06:57 PM (W7zKe) There's no wisdom found in anything based on lies and deceit.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 02, 2014 03:00 PM (oMKp3)

299 Matching the default setting of Microsoft Word also kinda gave it away.

Posted by: eman at May 02, 2014 03:00 PM (nGVcJ)

300 The Missionary Position is: A. Man on top. B. Woman on top. C. Missionary on top. Discuss...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 02, 2014 03:00 PM (0HooB)

301

45.

Perfect.

 

Posted by: LASue at May 02, 2014 03:01 PM (pWeX5)

302 Something that is "ironic" is that we are discussing a forge fragment supposedly about the bible and today is the anniversary of the first printing of the King James bible in 1611.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 02, 2014 03:03 PM (T2V/1)

303 The Gospel of Aceus of Spadus, headus quarterus...

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 03:05 PM (8c12T)

304 There's a really good British miniseries called Fake or Fortune? that checks whether paintings can be ascribed to famous artists or whether they're frauds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_or_Fortune%3F

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at May 02, 2014 03:08 PM (9IMoS)

305 Religion is a fraud but co-opting it is an effective method fir getting the plebs to embrace Collectivism. If you doubt it check out the current cover of Time.

Posted by: The Left at May 02, 2014 03:09 PM (dvRYt)

306 OK, are the Rodney Dangerfield references an oblique joke, or does no one know who Henny Youngman is?

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at May 02, 2014 03:12 PM (LWu6U)

307 #170 Crap, Sir Pugg, you beat me to it. Dick.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at May 02, 2014 03:12 PM (9IMoS)

308 "It doesn't bother me to think that Jesus may have had sex. It doesn't diminish Him in my eyes. " Honestly, wheatie, it is a shot at the Catholic church and any of the other credal churches that insist Jesus was unmarried and celibate as a part of his ministry. And this happens every year at Lent/Easter and Advent/Christmas. The media always, without fail, trots out someone who claims to have some BIG NEW EVIDENCE that contradicts two thousand years of church teaching and it always turns out to be a pile of bull. I just roll my eyes at them at this point. If they didn't feel threatened by faith, they would just ignore us.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at May 02, 2014 03:16 PM (qFpRI)

309 Time for Harvard to join the Hide the Decline Club? Cue Mark Steyn in 3, 2, 1 . . .

Posted by: sewer urchin at May 02, 2014 03:18 PM (gI4vL)

310 John the Baptist. Definitely a moron Well, he did lose his head over a stripper, after all.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 02, 2014 03:20 PM (x+Knu)

311 304 There's a really good British miniseries called Fake or Fortune? that checks whether paintings can be ascribed to famous artists or whether they're frauds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_or_Fortune%3F Posted by: andycanuck at May 02, 2014 07:08 PM (9IMoS) Hey! I said that! I really do enjoy the series.

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 03:24 PM (8c12T)

312 >>>Religion is a fraud but co-opting it is an effective method fir getting the plebs to embrace Collectivism. So what? In the absence of a loving creator with objective moral teachings, it really doesn't matter what system we have or use. Rights are a fiction. And in reality I should be on their side because it's winning and it would be better for me to be on the winning side.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at May 02, 2014 03:26 PM (0q2P7)

313 And there's a new 2014 season that I don't think has aired yet in North America. I'm looking forward to that even if I now know the spoilers for it from that Wiki article! With any luck I'll have forgotten by the time it airs here.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at May 02, 2014 03:28 PM (9IMoS)

314 307 #170 Crap, Sir Pugg, you beat me to it. Dick. Posted by: andycanuck at May 02, 2014 07:12 PM (9IMoS) The program was worth noting twice.

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 03:29 PM (8c12T)

315 Mormons have never retracted the teaching that Martha and ex-hoor Mary Magdalene were both wives of Jesus. They don't shout it out really loud. But they don't deny it.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at May 02, 2014 03:33 PM (a5ljo)

316 Kind of obvious that half human time travelers get no respect. Try being your own parent, let us know how that works out. Understandable, forgiven, but that will not save you. Very sad.

Posted by: neal at May 02, 2014 03:34 PM (H5Xyz)

317 313 And there's a new 2014 season that I don't think has aired yet in North America. I'm looking forward to that even if I now know the spoilers for it from that Wiki article! With any luck I'll have forgotten by the time it airs here. Posted by: andycanuck at May 02, 2014 07:28 PM (9IMoS) Ha! I watched them on the internet. My favorites were from an earlier season: the Degas and the Homer.

Posted by: Sir Pug A Lott at May 02, 2014 03:39 PM (8c12T)

318 >>>They don't shout it out really loud. But they don't deny it. Well they believe that John the Apostle is still alive too.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at May 02, 2014 03:39 PM (0q2P7)

319 My theory is that Jesus was actually divorced.  My proof?  He was crucified and then died homeless and penniless.

Posted by: Thatch at May 02, 2014 03:51 PM (qYvEa)

320 2 Said this on this blog when it came out. I guess I am now qualified to be on the Harvard faculty. Yes...but why would you want that penalty inflicted upon you?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at May 02, 2014 04:14 PM (VvOZ5)

321 Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at May 02, 2014 07:16 PM (qFpRI) ***** Come again? Saying Jesus wasn't bangin' chicks is a shot at the Catholic church? Or are you saying that those who say Jesus WAS bangin' chicks are taking a shot at the Catholic church?

Posted by: Taco Shack at May 02, 2014 04:14 PM (C+qQ0)

322 Actually, it's not necessarily true that "almost any scholar or treasure-hunter or anyone who had discovered such a thing would certainly wish to have his discovery associated with his name". That assumes that the owner got hold of it legally, which is an entirely separate question from its genuineness or (a third thing) its truth.

Case in point: In the last few months a papyrus containing a previously-unknown one-page fragment of Sappho's poetry has turned up. She was a great Greek poet, but most of her works are lost, and what survives is quite scrappy, so it was huge news in Classics and Archaeology. The general consensus is that the Sappho fragment is genuine - she wrote it - but its 'provenance' is highly suspicious. It was published by Dirk Obbink, possibly the world's #1 authority on papyri. He says the owner prefers to remain anonymous, and there is a lot of suspicion that it was bought on the black market in Egypt and smuggled out illegally, so the owner can't reveal his name without being sued by the Egyptian government and made to return it.

The same could have been true of the Jesus's Wife papyrus if it were genuine, which it's not. That would have made it suspicious in one way (possibly stolen or illegally exported) but that's an entirely different thing from being forged (=not as old as it pretends to be), which is again an entirely different thing from being untrue. If some 7th-8th century Gnostic had in fact written it, he would obviously have been making stuff up about things that happened in the 1st century that he had no first- or even second-hand knowledge of, so there would be no reason to believe it even if it were genuine, which (to repeat) it's not.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil at May 02, 2014 04:16 PM (g5mwZ)

323 Posted by: Dr. Weevil at May 02, 2014 08:16 PM (g5mwZ) ***** Very true, but still, an anonymous donor, on the whole, is more likely to be passing off a forgery as opposed to a open donor.

Posted by: Taco Shack at May 02, 2014 04:22 PM (C+qQ0)

324 I have a kid in my class named Jesus...coincidence? I think NOT!

Posted by: Guido at May 02, 2014 04:23 PM (GYg/s)

325 Seriously, you guys, you want people in 30,000 AD reading about an Ewok named Ace and automatically assuming it's true? Wait...it's not? that's like finding out the Greedo fired first. And was a really lousy shot.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at May 02, 2014 04:26 PM (VvOZ5)

326 You can bet that something is suspicious if it purports to prove something that's been speculated about in fiction. Big brouhaha about Mary being Jesus's wife a la Dan Brown and then presto-a papyrus saying the same thing miraculously turns up within a few years.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 02, 2014 04:26 PM (XyM/Y)

327 323:
Yes, I should have mentioned that a fake is more likely to lack provenance, because there are three reasons to conceal the source (it could be fake or it could be stolen/smuggled or the owner could just be shy) where a genuine article like the Sappho papyrus only has two reasons (stolen/smuggled or shy owner). My point is that lack of a named source is not proof of fakeness, even if you find the 'shy owner' explanation highly unlikely, because it could be stolen/smuggled. However, though not a proof of fakeness, lack of provenance certainly makes it more likely to be a fake.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil at May 02, 2014 04:28 PM (g5mwZ)

328 Ace, thanks for posting the link to Depuydt's article.  He's widely regarded as a top-shelf Egyptologist.

I've had 4 yrs of *formal* Egyptian --- Old, Middle & Late, never got to Demotic or Coptic, but enough to follow the details of his arguments.  Seems to me he ripped King a new one.  So why is that shameless skank still pushing this?

Posted by: Trotsky with an ice-pick in his head at May 02, 2014 04:34 PM (x0sN7)

329 Ace it's almost like you're saying there are people in scademia and the media who are so eager to discredit Christian teachings that they'll risk their own credibility in the attempt. I find this shocking, absolutely shocking. Of course, what price will those partisan hacks pay for the grossness of their error? Likely none.

Posted by: Feh at May 02, 2014 06:05 PM (g/zj9)

330 A few months ago, the same people hyped about the Jesus wife papyrus were probably convinced that Jesus didn't exist. Next month, he'll be gay.

Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at May 02, 2014 08:53 PM (NBhge)

331 So the earliest possible dating for the papyrus at least is the 7th century? I seem to recall another religious text written about then. Something about Mo', Big Guy Al, jihad and stuff...

Posted by: JohnAGJ at May 03, 2014 07:01 AM (6HcgJ)

332 This site REALLY needs to find a way to upvote or like comments. Some of these are brilliant!

Posted by: frogmouth at May 03, 2014 12:40 PM (lo0NG)

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