January 26, 2014

Gun Thread (1-26-2013)
— andy

Fundamentals

Reader 'cowboyup' sent in the following photo and commentary:

I recently bought a Savage Mark II .22 on a hunting trip for various reasons (hunting, plinking, etc.). After getting back to camp and setting up the gun, I sighted in at 25 yards. I was really impressed with the shot group that a .22 straight out of the box had. In no time I had a group of 5-6 shots inside of a dime. Mind you, i did have to dial the scope in, it was only bore sighted from the factory. I am not bragging over 25 yards by no means, if I can't hold a good group at that range, I have serious shooting issues. The purpose of this e-mail is to see what others have experienced with their rifles and how good of a group they hold and what other types to look at. One thing I do like is a good shooting gun, whether it be low range to high range on the price scale. (emphasis added)

CUTarget.jpg

We talk a lot in these posts about various makes and models of firearms, and the big manufacturers .. Ruger, S&W, Remington, etc. ... always get a lot of attention. But there are many, many manufacturers out there like Savage that don't get the headlines but continue to churn out quality firearms year after year.

The best shooting gun I have, bar none, is a little Savage M72 falling block single shot .22. If I had to pick "just one gun" out of the safe, it'd probably be that one, as it's deadly accurate and its simple mechanism will last forever with little to no maintenance required.

And it's probably also the cheapest gun in that safe. At the end of the day, quality isn't judged by what you paid ... it's judged by targets like the one above.


As Goes California ...

A new gun law proponents say helps law enforcement has driven Smith & Wesson and Sturm Ruger out of California, and affirmed the suspicions of firearms rights advocates that the measure is really about making handguns obsolete.

You mean requiring manufacturers to do something patently ridiculous causes them to choose to abandon a market? Shocking.

Also, c'mon Fox News ...

... a law that requires some handguns to have technology that imprints a tiny stamp on the bullet so it can be traced back to the gun ...

The microstamp doesn't go on the bullet, it goes on the primer and/or cartridge case.

In related news, sales of brass catchers are soaring (not to mention revolvers, which are exempt from this idiocy).


Gun Of The Week

gotw20140126.jpg

(answer below) Marksmanship Award


Gun Of The Week - Answer

Via 'Taro Tsujimoto', that's the Beretta Model 38 (or "Modello" 38 in the Italian lingo). Taro says:

The Italian forces and weapons of World War II come in for some mockery, but this certainly doesn't. As beautifully made a weapon as you would expect from Beretta. Reliable, effective, accurate (especially with hot-loaded Italian 9mm) and favored not only by Italian elite forces (stop chuckling) but by the Germans and the Allies as well, who prized captured examples. I'd rank it about even with the Thompson, slightly ahead of the PPSh-41 and MP38/MP40, and far ahead of the Sten.


A Supreme Court Case To Watch

Should the "straw purchaser" doctrine apply if an initial purchaser of a firearm and an immediate transferee are both legally eligible to own firearms?

I say no. The government's argument that the initial buyer's name is critically important falls apart when you consider that there are absolutely no documentation requirements for resale. Back to the safe ... I'm probably named on the 4473 for about half my guns. Most of the others were bought by my dad before I was age-eligible and there are a few that were just bought used from individuals.

The "straw purchaser" law should be used to charge someone who had intent to commit a crime. Using the government's logic, this kid's dad is bound for a cell:

ChristmasGun.jpg

The case is Abramski v. US

California State Senator Knows a Gun Does 30 Somethings

These are your betters, people ...


Still Laughing About This

Well done, Jeff Bezos. Well done.


Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 09:55 AM | Comments (233)
Post contains 845 words, total size 7 kb.

1 BastARDS

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 09:56 AM (kFCo1)

2 My next purchase will be a 30 magazine clip.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 26, 2014 10:01 AM (QFxY5)

3 Andy,

What is that rifle the fool from California is holding?

It looks like a AR platform with a big barrel shroud. What's so special about it, other than it has a mind of its own and murders babies in their cribs?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 26, 2014 10:06 AM (QFxY5)

4 Andy, how old is that Savage M72 you own?

Posted by: Seems legit at January 26, 2014 10:07 AM (A98Xu)

5 Back when you could "grandfather" full-auto weapons with ATF a cop friend located a Mod 38 that had been smuggled home. No, I do not know the guy's name and he changed his mind. They are nice weapons.

Posted by: backhoe at January 26, 2014 10:07 AM (ULH4o)

6 It is just a sexed up AR Mr .30 caliber clip is holding I'll also bet someone put a 'AR Pistol' upper on a rifle lower because the barrel looks shorter than 16"

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:08 AM (zELMe)

7 I thought a magazine clip was that thing that held the National Geographic at libraries.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 26, 2014 10:09 AM (gAyZv)

8 Of course politicians don't have to follow gun laws like the rest of us. any of us with a short barreled rifle and now paperwork = $10k and 10 years. Dianne Feinstein also seems to have the same ability to break the law to platform for more laws

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (zELMe)

9 Nice group, Andy.  Offhand or from a rest?

Posted by: mrp at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (JBggj)

10 My first gun (~12yrs old) was a Winchester model 67 Purchased used for $10. I could hit a nats ass with that thing with just iron sights. It is the perfect gun for a young boy since it is single shot which gives an incentive to actually aim. Wish I still had it and my 12yr old eyesight.

Posted by: The Hickster at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (TI3xG)

11 >> What is that rifle the fool from California is holding? It's some kind of AR. But it apparently has a rate of fire in excess of that of a minigun, so there's that.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (vGQV1)

12 Some good news in the jakeman household this week: The 2.1k of Federal .22 and ammo box, ordered in November 2012(!) finally showed up from Cabelas. I would see some plinking in my future...were it not for that damn leaky canoe.

Posted by: jakeman at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (vH4YP)

13 I am a little confused. Why isn't CA's law a violation of interstate commerce act? Same reason they get away with separate fuel rules?

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:11 AM (0FSuD)

14 Errr, cowboyup

Posted by: mrp at January 26, 2014 10:12 AM (JBggj)

15 Anyone have any idea where to find a brass catcher for a PS 90? I've been on back order at midway for almost a year and over a year at some other place.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:12 AM (0FSuD)

16 I once owned a Savage bolt action, cannot remember the model, .243. It was a very accurate rifle, and cost me under 200$.

Posted by: Anthony L. at January 26, 2014 10:13 AM (34n6F)

17 >> Andy, how old is that Savage M72 you own? Roughly ... 37 years? I got it when I was 8, IIRC, and I'm 45 now.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:13 AM (vGQV1)

18 Is .22LR ammo still hard to find?

Posted by: mrp at January 26, 2014 10:13 AM (JBggj)

19 You know what's scarier than a jet black murderin' assault rifle?

That jet black hair on the top of de Leon's pointy head.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2014 10:13 AM (TKFmG)

20 My M03A3 is like a laser beam at 100 yards and closer.

Posted by: toby928© at January 26, 2014 10:14 AM (QupBk)

21 18 Is .22LR ammo still hard to find? yep

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:14 AM (0FSuD)

22 Kudos to Taro on that GOTW, by the way. I don't think I'd have gotten that one without looking.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:15 AM (vGQV1)

23 " 2 My next purchase will be a 30 magazine clip." Does a 30 magazine clip outperform a high capability magazine clip? What if it comes in a color other than black?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 26, 2014 10:15 AM (XO6WW)

24 Where is everyone? Watching NHL? nah.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:16 AM (0FSuD)

25 My contribution for today is this. A drill. If God forbid, you ever actually need to use your tool you are not going to be taking great care to take aim. So practice that way. Here is what I do, when nobody is home, with my unloaded gun. Unload, check it unloaded, check it unloaded again. Aim (with finger off trigger) intuitively without sighting with the sights, at something in your house at various distances, a picture about head height, a door knob, clock on the wall. Now, hold that pose. Then check your sights to see how close your aim really is. If you do this a lot you can get really good at just putting the aim where you want it without looking down the sights. If you can use a laser, even better, but remember, when the adrenaline is pumping, unless you have done a lot of high stress training to slow things down, you might not even see that little dot of light.

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 10:16 AM (I6CHb)

26 AR SBR.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:16 AM (Q6HBD)

27 6 It is just a sexed up AR Mr .30 caliber clip is holding I'll also bet someone put a 'AR Pistol' upper on a rifle lower because the barrel looks shorter than 16" Barrel looks missing is what it looks in other photos.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 26, 2014 10:17 AM (XO6WW)

28 This Supreme Court case is the most troubling yo me. You never know what 5 of those jokers could do. You could literally make "felons" out of millions of Americans, instantly. Hell, the Boss Lady has broken the law by this reasoning every Christmas for the last three years.

Posted by: weirdflunky at January 26, 2014 10:17 AM (F+RpO)

29 I'll bet the asshole politician can't even find the flint on that doohickey.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 26, 2014 10:18 AM (XO6WW)

30 If you do this a lot you can get really good at just putting the aim where you want it without looking down the sights. If you can use a laser, even better, but remember, when the adrenaline is pumping, unless you have done a lot of high stress training to slow things down, you might not even see that little dot of light. Yeah, that's how I kill doves and burglars.

Posted by: Mr Model 12 at January 26, 2014 10:18 AM (0FSuD)

31 Every kid should be given a good single shot .22 and yes, that includes the girls.  They should be taught gun safety and how to care for the gun.  And most especially that it is not a toy.


When they get older they can move up to more power ones, assuming that all those lessons took hold.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 26, 2014 10:18 AM (T2V/1)

32 And I doubt the dipshit knows the hoops you have to jump through for the SBR.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:18 AM (Q6HBD)

33 whoever sent in that pic of the target, it is aparently real wet there

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:18 AM (zELMe)

34 Those jet black murder toys have dropped precipitously. I went by the store yesterday looking for a holster, checked out everything, several of the lower cost murder makers were tagged sub $600. I was glad they were all cable locked to the stand so they didn't jump up and murder me.

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 10:19 AM (I6CHb)

35 Alas, poor CA.  It used to be a "Western State".  And if you get away from that 50 mile swatch along the coast it still is.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 26, 2014 10:19 AM (T2V/1)

36 Anybody know where I can find a brass catcher for a Third Model Dragoon? Just to mess with their heads.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 26, 2014 10:20 AM (XO6WW)

37 Illinois is difficult, innit? Move here from out of state, you had your CCW elsewhere, you got your guns, a little ammo, but all must be mothballed, because . . . Going to a range requires the IL FOID card. Buying a 50 ct box of 22LR rounds requires a FOID card. Buying a gun of any kind at all requires a FOID card. And the backup for FOID card issuance by the state cops is over a year. You cannot get the FOID card without first having a drivers license, and to get the license, you gotta turn in the one you had from elsewhere. Meanwhile, if you keep your old DL from elsewhere, you can buy ammo, and shoot at a range, because IL only requires RESIDENTS to produce the FOID card for using a range, buying ammo, buying guns.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 26, 2014 10:21 AM (tmFlQ)

38 And I doubt the dipshit knows the hoops you have to jump through for the SBR. Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 02:18 PM (Q6HBD) or his staff either, I'll bet that is out of some police impound cage. They confiscated it. plus that vertical forgrip is way to close to the muzzle for me

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:21 AM (zELMe)

39 On the "how good a group" question, the best I have ever done was with an 03-A3 Springfield with the original iron sights at about 75 yards.  I had a three shot group that would fit in about a dime size.  I wish I still had that rifle.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 26, 2014 10:22 AM (T2V/1)

40 Thinking more about that straw purchaser piece as it applies to my guns ... my AR was bought in very nearly the exact same scenario as described in this case. When the Clinton AWB was being debated, my dad called and said, "I found a good deal on ARs. Want one?" Of course I said yes and a week or so later I went to his house and picked up a brand new Colt AR-15 HBAR. He got a CAR-15 (the collapsible stock one) at the same time.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:22 AM (vGQV1)

41 I read that of the two million or so guns and mags that are required to be registered in Conn , only about 40,000 or so have actually been accounted for . Good news on the gun front . If the gun pussies in Conn. can't get any better cooperation from the folks in that state imagine them trying the same routine in say , Idaho or Georgia .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 10:23 AM (WK8VM)

42 I wish I still had that rifle. Posted by: Vic at January 26, 2014 02:22 PM (T2V/1) Unfortunate boating accident? That's been happening a lot lately.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 10:25 AM (LIQGY)

43 41 I can't speak for Idaho but down here in Ga., that dawg won't hunt!

Posted by: weirdflunky at January 26, 2014 10:25 AM (F+RpO)

44 Thinking more about that straw purchaser piece as it applies to my guns ... my AR was bought in very nearly the exact same scenario as described in this case. Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 02:22 PM (vGQV1) but the case hopped a state line VA to PA if I remember. gotta go through a FFL per GCA1968 for citizens of other states.

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:26 AM (zELMe)

45 This day in history: 1907 – The Short Magazine Lee-Enfield Mk III is officially introduced into British Military Service, and remains the second oldest military rifle still in official use.

Posted by: rickl at January 26, 2014 10:26 AM (sdi6R)

46 That gun has two triggers so it can shoot twice as fast. Banned in California.

Posted by: California at January 26, 2014 10:27 AM (8wLlW)

47 1907 – The Short Magazine Lee-Enfield Mk III is officially introduced into British Military Service, and remains the second oldest military rifle still in official use.

Posted by: rickl at January 26, 2014 02:26 PM (sdi6R)


What would it still be used for, ceremonial occasions? And what's the oldest?

Posted by: joncelli at January 26, 2014 10:27 AM (RD7QR)

48 I haven't seen Federal .22 (which is the only thing my Ruger MkIII eats properly, though the 10//22 will take anything) at the local Wallyworld in something like 18 months. That's why I was so thrilled the Cabela's order finally came.

Posted by: jakeman at January 26, 2014 10:27 AM (vH4YP)

49 If the gun pussies in Conn. can't get any better cooperation from the folks in that state imagine them trying the same routine in say , Idaho or Georgia . Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 02:23 PM (WK8VM) I'd like to waltz in to one of those offices and produce a pop-tart eaten into the shape of a gun and ask them to register it.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 10:29 AM (LIQGY)

50 >> On the "how good a group" question, the best I have ever done was with an 03-A3 Springfield with the original iron sights at about 75 yards. I had a three shot group that would fit in about a dime size. My favorite deer rifle is a Remington 700 Classic in .250 Savage. I glass bedded it in a fiberglass stock, and it regularly put 3 shots into one ragged hole at 100 yards back when I bothered to take it to the range before the season.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:29 AM (vGQV1)

51 42  Unfortunate boating accident? That's been happening a lot lately.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 02:25 PM (LIQGY)


Actually I traded it to my little brother who still has it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 26, 2014 10:31 AM (T2V/1)

52 Andy, Kinda nice to have the gun thread in the afternoon when the weather is too cruddy to go actually shooting

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:31 AM (zELMe)

53

CA is at the mercy of the "judicial" system to preserve or restore any sanity or constitutionality in the area of firearms.  Yes, a bad place to be.  There is a case against the handgun roster that is in its 1,345th year or something, I think it might even be getting close to some kind of decision at a lower level.   Pena vs. Cyd, I believe is the case.

 

May be that the S&W and Ruger decisions may help the case, as it shows pretty clearly that the law (absurd on its own terms, as it is based on "safety" even though no benefit can be shown, and the pure mishief is obvious from things like considering guns with different finishes - stainless vs. blue or olive-drab, for example - as "new" designs whose "safety" must be tested) is preventing access to firearms in widespread use (as in, everywhere on the planet except CA).  No, I'm not kidding.  THAT is how degraded America is, that such a transparent attack on freedom and commerce and a pure waste of taxpayer's money is allowed to go forward at all.

 

The legal warriors have pulled off some important successes in recent years, so I am hoping against hope that the roster falls (another case against the 10-day waiting period is closer to resolution), and beyond that that MacDonald and Heller start to filter down to the state level in CA.

 

It's all up to a few unaccountable people in black, because the ignorance, bigotry, indifference to liberty of others, low practical intelligence, and plain stupidity of "educated" coastal Californians are far beyond repair.

 

Posted by: non-purist at January 26, 2014 10:31 AM (afQnV)

54 My MkIII likes the Winchester 36 gr. plated hollow points. But I haven't seen them around lately.

Posted by: Frankly at January 26, 2014 10:32 AM (8wLlW)

55 My favorite gun is also a Savage, in this case a Model 110 in .270 cal.  I know Savage came out with an adjustable trigger in recent years, which is good, because their triggers used to be simply horrible.  When I originally purchased that rifle - 175 bucks at a pawn shop in Gulfport, MS, and it included a cheap Tasco scope and a hard case - the trigger had what felt like a half inch of travel before it set up and broke.  And it broke hard, too.  That's just impossible to shoot well, no matter how good of a shot you are.

However, that's easy to remedy.  $300 bucks for a premium trigger (I forget the brand now, sadly) and an hour of tinkering, and I had a trigger that breaks crisp, easy and light.

On a good day, if I'm feeling right and haven't had too much coffee that morning or booze the night before, and with a solid bench to shoot from, it will put the first two shots basically right on top of one another at 100 yards.  The third shot flies a little bit, a third to a half an inch, high and to the right.

That's with a factory barrel, no glass bedding, and cheap ammo (Remington Core Lokt 130 gr.).  Savage just makes an extremely accurate rifle.  I'm not surprised to hear similar thoughts from other shooters/hunters.

Posted by: andrew at January 26, 2014 10:32 AM (+qblF)

56 We can haz guns? Yay! Nice job Andy.

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at January 26, 2014 10:33 AM (/T5EP)

57 Posted by: JB1000 at January 26, 2014 02:31 PM (bzVvg) well that would be a problem if you didn't take a file to the firearm first

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:33 AM (zELMe)

58 Posted by: JB1000 at January 26, 2014 02:31 PM (bzVvg) I'm sure they thought the law through. Their our betters and understand the nuance which we subjects fail to comprehend.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:34 AM (Q6HBD)

59 >> Kinda nice to have the gun thread in the afternoon when the weather is too cruddy to go actually shooting Yep. We're going back to the non-NFL season schedule.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:35 AM (vGQV1)

60 Damn autocorrect.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:35 AM (Q6HBD)

61 2 My next purchase will be a 30 magazine clip. Assault post!

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula51 at January 26, 2014 10:35 AM (R5qgD)

62 58 Posted by: JB1000 at January 26, 2014 02:31 PM (bzVvg) well that would be a problem if you didn't take a file to the firearm first Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 02:33 PM (zELMe) "Oops, I must have accidentally scratched it when I was cleaning it."

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 10:35 AM (LIQGY)

63 It's all up to a few unaccountable people in black, because the ignorance, bigotry, indifference to liberty of others, low practical intelligence, and plain stupidity of "educated" coastal Californians are far beyond repair. Posted by: non-purist at January 26, 2014 02:31 PM (afQnV) don't forget Barrett stopped shipping/selling their heavy rifles to CA LEO's once they banned .50BMG rifles in CA

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:35 AM (zELMe)

64 >>>I would not touch one of those guns, if anyone actually makes one,if you paid me. <<<

Not even with a metal file?  I dropped my microstamping firearm and the firing pin broke.  This third party aftermarket firing pin doesn't microstamp, but it'll work for now.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2014 10:36 AM (TKFmG)

65 After banning weapons that have never been used in crimes, imaginary weapons and movie props can only be next. Sigh... That blaster and the hip holster was coming back any year now too.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula51 at January 26, 2014 10:36 AM (R5qgD)

66 I have two Savages chambered for 22 WMR. Both are heavy barrel, one with a synthetic stock, the other with a beautiful Monte Carlo style laminate stock. Both guns will, if I do my part, put every round inside a nickel at 100 yards.

Posted by: Blake at January 26, 2014 10:38 AM (rvVUZ)

67 Does anyone remember the gun of the week, a couple of months ago, it was a handgun I think it was made for special ops in European theater after ww2? It looked like a good candidate for a CCW application. Unique safety mechanism. I can't find thread about it. Thanks.

Posted by: bopiddy at January 26, 2014 10:38 AM (G/GHo)

68 I can't find thread about it. Thanks. Posted by: bopiddy at January 26, 2014 02:38 PM (G/GHo) search on 'the liberator' or something similar

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:39 AM (zELMe)

69 Straw purchases? My son lives in GA. He can walk into any store, show his GA DL and buy any fucking thing he wants. NC still has stupid pistol permits, left over from Jim Crow era when whites didn't want blacks to get pistols. Funny, democrats that passed the law 80 years ago, still don't want it repealed. Gun safety and all that.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:39 AM (0FSuD)

70 I think the fine young Senator is 52% right: Democrats shouldn't own guns.

Posted by: t-bird at January 26, 2014 10:40 AM (FcR7P)

71 I have a British No. 5 MKI Lee-Enfield "Jungle Carbine". It is not a great rifle for accuracy but some stuff I buy just to collect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jungle_Carbine.jpg

Posted by: The Hickster at January 26, 2014 10:40 AM (TI3xG)

72 If anybody has $99,450 laying around they could have bought Bonnie Parker's 1902 Colt .38.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:41 AM (Q6HBD)

73 "Oops, I must have accidentally scratched it when I was cleaning it." Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 02:35 PM (LIQGY) Big time felony, don't fuck with serial numbers. They can really not be removed, so why bother.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:41 AM (0FSuD)

74 mrp I was using a jeep hood with a folded up coat for a rest. It is a really good gun and fun to shoot. My only regret is that it does not have iron sights. Mr Model 12 When i was younger(about 25 years ago) i could actually shoot a .22 like that. Now, not so much. One Ping Only Yes, it did rain a little that morning but cleared up the rest of the day. Vic Thanks for the info., just looking for input on good shooting guns out there and what to possibly look for. I do realize that many factors can affect the accuracy of a gun that could give different results from gun to gun of the same make.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 10:41 AM (wG6KW)

75 FP-45 Liberator is what wikipedia has that ww2

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:42 AM (zELMe)

76

The Abramski "straw purchase" case was caused by the guy keeping very meticulous records.  His uncle sent him a check for $400 with "Glock 19" in the memo space for buying the gun BEFORE he bought it.  BATF says that is proof that it was a straw purchase.  If the guy did not keep a copy of the check, there would likely be no case. 

 

And the whole thing started because he was erroneously suspected in a bank robbery or some other crime, and his gun records were found in a search of his house.  Desiring to nail him for something, anything, the BATF came up with this straw purchase charge. 

 

 

Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 10:42 AM (D+lxs)

77 Your finger prints on the casings, Who touches their ammo with a bare hand? Thin cotton gloves. And never buy a microstamped gun. (If that vaporware ever gets made) But I have had your same thought, which is why I don't touch my ammo. (In my scenario it was "what if someone steals my stuff then shoots a government official)

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 10:43 AM (I6CHb)

78 Big time felony, don't fuck with serial numbers. They can really not be removed, so why bother. Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 02:41 PM (0FSuD) no the micro stampin, not the serial#

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:45 AM (zELMe)

79 And never buy a microstamped gun. (If that vaporware ever gets made) It has been pointed out that destroying the micro stamp is a very simple process. That is why the entire idea is stupid.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:45 AM (0FSuD)

80 If microstamping ever really happens in California, touchup with a very fine sharpening stone, to deburr the various internal gun parts, should also render the stamp illegible. Naturally, such deburring should be done slowly and carefully, and with a 3x magnifier and frequent inspections to make certain all burrs are properly removed.

Posted by: Arbalest at January 26, 2014 10:45 AM (FlRtG)

81 Not even with a metal file? I dropped my microstamping firearm and the firing pin broke. This third party aftermarket firing pin doesn't microstamp, but it'll work for now.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2014 02:36 PM (TKFmG)


That won't stop them, unfortunately. When prosecutors smell blood, it's all the way to the end.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at January 26, 2014 10:46 AM (IPz9m)

82 @79 Misunderstood. A few cleaning with your brass bore cleaner should take care of mr micro stamp.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:46 AM (0FSuD)

83 Ahhhh... the fresh smell of a new gun thread.

Well, finally finished my AR build. After putting a middy upper on my Smith and Wesson, I had the Smith upper left over. A couple months ago I built a Stag lower, so last weekend I took the barrel and BCG off of the Smith and put them on an A2 upper receiver. This was a "just for fun" build, so because I dig the looks of the XM177 I put a CAR-15 stock on the lower and a slip-over simulated moderator on the upper (sadly, after installing it I realized the simulated moderator doesn't simulate much of anything XM177-wise. Still looks kinda neat, though). And since I'm a total honk for anything Israeli, I put some IDF doodads on it as well. Here she is:

http://tinyurl.com/q39xrqh

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 10:47 AM (celt+)

84 76 FP-45 Liberator is what wikipedia has that ww2 Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 02:42 PM (zELMe) I don't think that is what bopiddy is looking for. At least I hope not.

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 10:47 AM (Q6HBD)

85 Fuckin' California . I have two firearms I'd like to gift to my sisters in Ca . I can't just hand them to 'em when they come to S. Carolina for a visit . I have to transfer them to a dealer in Ca. before they can take possession. One is a Ruger No. 1 in .270 , obviously ,the preferred weapon of the serious drive by shooter . Fuckin' California .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 10:47 AM (WK8VM)

86 @86 I don't see why they can not take possession of the guns and claim they were grandfathered in. The guns were given to them by your father and you have been holding them for them. EAT ME.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 10:49 AM (0FSuD)

87 Andrew My brother owned a Savage 110C 30-06 back in the '80's. It was a damn good rifle that was pretty accurate. To bad he sold it.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 10:50 AM (wG6KW)

88 And the whole thing started because he was erroneously suspected in a bank robbery or some other crime, and his gun records were found in a search of his house. Desiring to nail him for something, anything, the BATF came up with this straw purchase charge.

Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 02:42 PM (D+lxs)


Exactly. Once they've got *any* reason to go after you, they will go after you.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at January 26, 2014 10:50 AM (IPz9m)

89 A new gun law proponents say helps law enforcement has driven Smith & Wesson and Sturm Ruger out of California, and affirmed the suspicions of firearms rights advocates that the measure is really about making handguns obsolete. Like another gun manufacturer did, they need to inform every law enforcement agency in the state that they cannot sell guns to them because the weapons are illegal in that state. Loopholes for cops are not acceptable You know they most likely won't do it since LE is a big moneymaker for Smith & Wesson

Posted by: kbdabear at January 26, 2014 10:51 AM (aTXUx)

90 86 Fuckin' California . I have two firearms I'd like to gift to my sisters in Ca . I can't just hand them to 'em when they come to S. Carolina for a visit . I have to transfer them to a dealer in Ca. before they can take possession. One is a Ruger No. 1 in .270 , obviously ,the preferred weapon of the serious drive by shooter . Fuckin' California . Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 02:47 PM (WK8VM) What are the rules that prohibit taking them apart and shipping them in pieces?

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 10:51 AM (LIQGY)

91 If anybody has $99,450 laying around they could have bought Bonnie Parker's 1902 Colt .38. Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 02:41 PM (Q6HBD) it may have one in the chamber, no-one has ever checked.

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:53 AM (zELMe)

92 I was given a single shot Stevens bolt-action 22 when I was ten. Christmas present. Shot a lot of porcupines and chickadees with that thing. I remember being about twelve and having no problem buying ammo at the hardware store, alone, no note from Mom. This, way up in Essex county, NY, county population then prolly about 15,000.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 26, 2014 10:53 AM (tmFlQ)

93 BTW, if a klutz like me can basically assemble an AR-15 from parts, anybody can. Just make sure you have the right tools, go slow and take some time to watch videos and absorb some knowledge from AR forums.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 10:55 AM (celt+)

94 Andy, if you don't mind, I'm gonna bother the fine folks here with the question I bugged you and DiT with yesterday. Cool?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 10:55 AM (GEICT)

95

Ruger, S ampersand W, California Microstamping. 

 

If they can get Glock, Sig, and Beretta to agree, one way to stop it from spreading would be to tell CA that they will not sell any handguns to CA Law Enforcement that they cannot sell to CA regular citizens.  If the guns are unsafe and dangerous for CA people, they are unsafe for CA Police. 

 

Law enforcement is <10% of the handgun market and CA is <10% of the LEO market.  (More like 0.05% of the total market IMO)  And the first handgun company that bans sale of their equipment to EVERYONE in CA will be swamped with orders from 2nd Amendment fanatics. 

Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 10:56 AM (D+lxs)

96 Sure

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 10:56 AM (vGQV1)

97 >>>Who touches their ammo with a bare hand? Thin cotton gloves.<<<

You must have missed the memo.  Our firearms compensate for our wedding tackle and are a measure of our libido, hoss.  Cotton gloves aren't always a suitable countermeasure for teh sticky DNA.

Posted by: Fritz at January 26, 2014 10:56 AM (TKFmG)

98 Nip Sip , as far as my reading goes , in Ca , the only people that can hand over guns are mother and father , siblings , no , cousins , hell no . If they drive out for a visit , I'll hand them over , but if they fly and have to check them as luggage and run the TSA gauntlet , I think it'd be a bad idea .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 10:56 AM (WK8VM)

99 Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 26, 2014 02:53 PM (tmFlQ) When I was about that age, I blasted a little tweety bird with my single shot 20 gauge shotgun, and immediately felt like an asshole. Killing something that didn't need to be killed, I guess. But I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an intruder at all. That's something that is practically begging to be killed.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 10:58 AM (LIQGY)

100 Thanks for the GOTW honor, Andy. And thanks for the time you take to do this. We gun nuts look forward to our Sunday cordite clatch.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 10:58 AM (celt+)

101 Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 02:47 PM (WK8VM)

Didn't you give them to your sisters years ago?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 26, 2014 10:58 AM (QFxY5)

102 has anyone every owned or shot a Springfield 1911 V10 ultra? just paid for one yesterday, will get it in 15 days

Posted by: navycopjoe at January 26, 2014 10:59 AM (At8tV)

103 What are the rules that prohibit taking them apart and shipping them in pieces? Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 02:51 PM (LIQGY) Gun Control Act of 1968. citizens must go through a FFL for the part that has the serial number.

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 10:59 AM (zELMe)

104

And the first handgun company that bans sale of their equipment to EVERYONE in CA will be swamped with orders from 2nd Amendment fanatics.

 

And if Ronny Barrett ever starts making handguns or 22 rifles, he will get my business. 

 

 

 

 

Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 11:00 AM (D+lxs)

105

model_1066......  the only part you can't mail is the receiver, that's what's got the serial number on it, and is considered "the gun".  Everything else, is just parts.

 

As I see it, if awkward davies is either driving to CA, or his sisters making a drive to see him, then the guns can just be ferried overland, with no one the wiser.  Yep, dear ol' Dad gave 'em the rifles while he was still alive, you see.

 

And I've got a simple logic which I've not seen argued in the "Straw Purchase" case.  It is this:  "The 4473 asks if I'm the actual user of the firearm(s) in question.  My answer is YES.  And, my "USE" of this firearm, is to offer it as a gift to my _________, for Christmas/Birthday/Promotion, whatever.  I bought the gun for a specific USE, and in gifting that gun, have ACCOMPLISHED that USEAGE."

 

Maybe some of you more lawyerly types can put that paragraph through the wringer?

 

 

 

Jim
Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

 

 

Posted by: Jim at January 26, 2014 11:02 AM (vvk2F)

106 Model 1066 , I don't think taking them apart would make transfers any easier or more legal . By their definition the frame or reciever or the lower , in the case of the AR , would be considered a firearm .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 11:03 AM (WK8VM)

107 103 has anyone every owned or shot a Springfield 1911 V10 ultra? just paid for one yesterday, will get it in 15 days Posted by: navycopjoe at January 26, 2014 02:59 PM (At8tV) I have a Springfield 1911, but haven't heard of that specific item. Sounds exotic.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 11:03 AM (LIQGY)

108 As I see it, if awkward davies is either driving to CA, or his sisters making a drive to see him, then the guns can just be ferried overland, with no one the wiser. Yep, dear ol' Dad gave 'em the rifles while he was still alive, you see. no family exemptions in GCA1968

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:03 AM (zELMe)

109 Alright my fine firearm friends, here's the deal. I'm in the market for a new gun. Leader in the clubhouse is Ruger LC380. Headed to a range that's not far from where I work and I knew they had a LC380 that I could rent. So I'm on the range putting rounds through itÂ….and it keeps stove piping. Probably 4 or 5 times in the first 30rds. So I take it back to the counter and talk to the gun. He gives it a cursory inspection, grabs 5 rounds from behind the counter and back to the firing line we go. He puts the 5rds through it as fast as he can pull the trigger and it doesn't malfunction. He gives me "the look", says "Your limp wristing it. Firm up your grip." and walks away. Ooook. Now I've put plenty of rounds through various .40s and 9mms. Never an issue. But ok, I can take a bit of criticism. I make a concerted effort to firm up the grip and put the final 20rds through it. It stove piped several more times and the slide failed to lock open once. Now, my question. Is it me that's the problem? This particular gun? Or is this a common issue with this particular model? Thanks for the help.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 11:03 AM (GEICT)

110

When it comes to accuracy, I'd say my (somewhat tricked out) Ruger 10-22 is the most accurate piece I own. I gave it a trigger job and Volquartsen match hammer, put a red-dot scope on it, and consistently hit quarter-sized groups at 50 yards. Insofar as the most accurate handgun is concerned, I own a Smith and Wesson K38 Model 14-2 38 SPL Target Masterpiece revolver. It has, without doubt, the best single and double action trigger of any handgun I've ever fired. I've used it to teach a number of people how to shoot handguns with it, knowing that whatever patterns they shoot are caused by them, not the gun. I'm giving it to my son when he turns 21 next year.

 

Truth to tell, pinpoint accuracy isn't a big concern to me when it comes to handguns. My carry weapon is a Seecamp .32, and it doesn't have sights so it's an entirely point-shooting affair. If I can get a fist-sized group with it one-handed anywhere in center mass on a silhouette at 5-7 yards, then I consider it accurate enough for the purpose it serves.

Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2014 11:04 AM (ptcFO)

111

Posted by: Jim at January 26, 2014 03:02 PM (vvk2F)

 

 

It was not a gift, the uncle paid him for the gun BEFORE he bought it.  That also eliminates the "I did not like it, so I sold it defense" too. 

 

And with the case at the US Supreme Court, all the "facts" have been found. 

Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 11:05 AM (D+lxs)

112 no family exemptions in GCA1968 Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 03:03 PM (zELMe) edit if you will no family exemptions in GCA1968 for citizens of diffrent states

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:05 AM (zELMe)

113 Hmm CBD , you may be on to something .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 11:06 AM (WK8VM)

114 Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 03:03 PM (GEICT) Did he use the same ammo?

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 11:06 AM (LIQGY)

115 Did he use the same ammo? Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 03:06 PM (LIQGY) No, he did not.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 11:07 AM (GEICT)

116 It looks like 'gun control' is going to be piece meal, state by state, item by item, and places like Chicago will blame outlying areas for Chicago's gun problem.

#threemoreyears.

Posted by: Yukin Flambeau at January 26, 2014 11:07 AM (lCW46)

117 I wish their was a way to hand one of these fools a bogus gun and let them do a rant. Like a Brown Bess with a "30 round clip".

Posted by: YIKES! at January 26, 2014 11:07 AM (mETGQ)

118 On the Cali microstamp(MS) and Leos. Law-fair needs to be used to sue so Leos have to use MS guns and nothing else. Argue that when several officers are involved in a shooting the MS can be used to sort out who shot and how many times. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Posted by: The Hickster at January 26, 2014 11:07 AM (TI3xG)

119 Now, my question. Is it me that's the problem? This particular gun? Or is this a common issue with this particular model? Thanks for the help. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 03:03 PM (GEICT) could be that is is too small for your biomechanics if you can shoot fullsize pistols ok. try another type of pocket gun like the Walther not the PPK the other polimerone that they released a few years ago

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:08 AM (zELMe)

120 gaming thread is up

Posted by: The Dude at January 26, 2014 11:08 AM (bStrg)

121 BC1981 I have had issues like that but only with reloads bought at gun shows. As soon as i went to factory ammo, no more stove pipes.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 11:09 AM (wG6KW)

122 Argue that when several officers are involved in a shooting the MS can be used to sort out who shot and how many times. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Posted by: The Hickster at January 26, 2014 03:07 PM (TI3xG) nice!

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:10 AM (zELMe)

123 BC - Maybe it simply isn't the best choice for you. When I have problems like that with something, I generally fall back on what my gut tells me. Whether it's your handling, the design, or wear and tear, I would do some more shopping. Don't try to force yourself to buy something that has superficial appeal. If a date doesn't go well, no matter how attractive the gal is, it's time to reconsider. Doesn't mean she's a bad person, just not a good fit.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 26, 2014 11:10 AM (aDwsi)

124 could be that is is too small for your biomechanics if you can shoot fullsize pistols ok. I've typically avoided smaller "pocket" pistols for this reason. But I felt very comfortable with this gun. It had the, technical term here, little magazine extender pinky finger thing on it that was a nice bonus. I never felt like I needed to adjust my grip or fumble to get comfortable with it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 11:10 AM (GEICT)

125 Now, my question. Is it me that's the problem? This particular gun? Or is this a common issue with this particular model?

Thanks for the help.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 03:03 PM (GEICT)

Several years ago, I bought two Ruger LCPs, one for me and one for my girlfriend. Mine was a problem child, with extraction problems and stovepipes and so on, which made shooting it a frustrating ordeal. And no, I didn't limp wrist the thing although I was at times tempted to toss it in a lake. Hers, on the other hand, has never had an FTF of any sort. I sold mine. She's kept hers, although she doesn't like the recoil inherent to a medium caliber fired from a compact frame. It's a reliable and accurate piece. For her.

 

I know this is purely anecdotal but I think Ruger LCPs are hit or miss. I wouldn't buy another one.

Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2014 11:11 AM (ptcFO)

126 Don't some other states (I'm thinking Maryland) use the Cali "safe gun" list as well? Dropping off (or not even bothering to list) the CA list may affect sales there, too. And IIRC, MD also wants the microstamping thing, as well.

Posted by: Fox2! at January 26, 2014 11:11 AM (cHwSy)

127 BC- I would say this about that. If that gun is misbehaving for you, and even if for you alone, it just isn't the one for you. I sold another 380 this week for unexplained misbehavior myself, and waiting on an LC380 to come in this week from TX. If this is going to be your primary carry weapon, and you have the least but of doubt in its performance, it will nag you forever.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 11:12 AM (4Mv1T)

128 I wish their was a way to hand one of these fools a bogus gun and let them do a rant. Like a Brown Bess with a "30 round clip". Posted by: YIKES ----------------- You did see the AP picture of the Enfield .303 as an example of an 'assault weapon', no?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 26, 2014 11:12 AM (aDwsi)

129 124 BC - Maybe it simply isn't the best choice for you. When I have problems like that with something, I generally fall back on what my gut tells me. Whether it's your handling, the design, or wear and tear, I would do some more shopping. Don't try to force yourself to buy something that has superficial appeal. If a date doesn't go well, no matter how attractive the gal is, it's time to reconsider. Doesn't mean she's a bad person, just not a good fit. Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 26, 2014 03:10 PM (aDwsi) That's the frustrating thing. I really enjoyed the gun. If it wasn't for the stove piping, I would have walked away pleased as all hell and looking forward to making a purchase. Now I'm antsy about it. And that annoys the crap out of me. It was a rental gun and cheap ammo, so I'd like to chalk it up to that. But I don't want to fork over the cash and then be unhappy, and uncomfortable, with my purchase.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 26, 2014 11:12 AM (GEICT)

130 It was not a gift, the uncle paid him for the gun BEFORE he bought it. That also eliminates the "I did not like it, so I sold it defense" too. And with the case at the US Supreme Court, all the "facts" have been found. Posted by: rd at January 26, 2014 03:05 PM (D+lxs) basically it comes down to is it a straw purchase if both are legally able to purchase

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:13 AM (zELMe)

131
How in the hell that could count as a straw purchase I will never know.  But then again I think all gun laws are unconstitutional.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 26, 2014 11:13 AM (n0DEs)

132 122 BC1981 I have had issues like that but only with reloads bought at gun shows. As soon as i went to factory ammo, no more stove pipes. Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 03:09 PM (wG6KW) And also directing this comment at= Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 03:08 PM (zELMe) I bought a Walther P22 brand new and had lots of problems with using cheap ammo until I had about 500 rounds through it. After that, it would take any kind of ammo without a problem. Maybe the rental gun was newish and was fussy about ammo? Or maybe because it's a rental the maintenance was a bit lax?

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 11:14 AM (LIQGY)

133 Gun threads give me wood.

Posted by: Lloyd Loar at January 26, 2014 11:14 AM (9u2hL)

134 Posted by: BCochran1981 If it is a carry gun, I don't think the source of the issues even matter. You have already had the grain of "if I NEED it this tool might not work." Can't have that in a carry piece. If you are only going to take it to the range and you like the gun get it, you will figure out over time what works and what doesn't. I have several handguns that have certain issues, mainly no steel cases, they just don't leave the house on my hip.

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 11:15 AM (I6CHb)

135 more of a synthetic stock man myself

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:15 AM (zELMe)

136 Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2014 03:04 PM (ptcFO) I'm a relative newb, having grown up in an anti-gun household, but my 10-22 was stunningly accurate right out of the box. The only upgrade I've made was a Volquartsen extractor. Next time I'm feeling rich, I'm tempted to treat myself to one of their Takedowns.

Posted by: jakeman at January 26, 2014 11:15 AM (vH4YP)

137 BC1981, model_1066 I'm betting it was the cheap ammo just mentioned in #131. Try a different ammo and see what happens then. Everyone of us has probably at one time or another, known of a gun that was finicky with the ammo shot through it.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 11:17 AM (wG6KW)

138 Next time I'm feeling rich, I'm tempted to treat myself to one of their Takedowns. Posted by: jakeman at January 26, 2014 03:15 PM (vH4YP) not a .22 pistol? Buckmark S&W M&P22 Ruger mkiii ?

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:20 AM (zELMe)

139 99 Nip Sip , as far as my reading goes , in Ca , the only people that can hand over guns are mother and father , siblings , no , cousins , hell no . If they drive out for a visit , I'll hand them over , but if they fly and have to check them as luggage and run the TSA gauntlet , I think it'd be a bad idea . Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 02:56 PM (WK8VM) I misunderstood, thought they were driving. Still the TSA should not be a problem, buy cases for them and check them in. TSA is not going to be enforcing CA gun laws. Put a note in there from your long lost dad, enjoy these guns, dad.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 11:20 AM (0FSuD)

140 jakeman I think the next .22 i buy will be the Henry U.S. Survival AR-7. Any body have any thoughts or knowledge on this? http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 11:20 AM (wG6KW)

141 Cochrane , guns are weird like that . I used to have a high end Colt 1911 that was finicky as hell for me . It pained me to do it , but I got rid of it . Now , I have a Springield loaded 1911 that runs like a sewing machine . The trigger is kinda' stiff but that can be dealt with .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 11:20 AM (WK8VM)

142 121 gaming thread is up Meh!

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 11:22 AM (0FSuD)

143 BC - yeah, I second the 'try other ammo' suggestion. Someone I know got a new HK45 and had a lot of trouble with the ammo at first.He did some research and found that it was indeed an issue with the OAL on some ammo. Now using the right stuff and it works every single time.

Posted by: Mr. HK at January 26, 2014 11:23 AM (8HiDF)

144 I have a Browning Buckmark .22 pistol that shoots like a dream...when it functions. The problem is the top plate where there is a hole machined for one of the two screws that mounts it to the body, near the rear sight. After not too many rounds, a crack develops between the hole and the edge nearest the shooter, which makes it loose enough to cause it to seriously misfeed to where shooting it is almost impossible. Sent it back to Browning for repair, and the replacement they put on did the same thing in less than 200 rounds. Its been years since I shot it, but maybe now they pulled their heads out of their asses and now machine the part out of metal instead of wimpy plastic?

Posted by: model_1066 at January 26, 2014 11:25 AM (LIQGY)

145 I think the next .22 i buy will be the Henry U.S. Survival AR-7. Any body have any thoughts or knowledge on this?

http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 03:20 PM (wG6KW)

 

The AR-7 Henry Survival Rifle was the first rifle I bought for my son when he was of age. He loved the whole supercool James Bond aspect of the assembly. He's incredibly accurate with it.

 

It's a good little rifle but needs to be lubricated prior to shooting it, every time. Do that, no FTFs. Don't do that, you'll spend half your time cursing with frustration. It's also a little picky on ammo. CCI Stingers do the trick, while cheap generic plinker stuff doesn't.

Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2014 11:25 AM (ptcFO)

146

84 Look at this guy changing out barrels himself.  Toldya you could do it dude

When it comes to fixing cars and guns youtube can't be beat

Posted by: MAx at January 26, 2014 11:27 AM (b7yum)

147 So I bought myself a shoulder rig for my 1911 at 11PM last night while drinking scotch and talking to a holster maker here in NC. Never do that. Drink too much booze with a credit card close by

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 11:29 AM (4Mv1T)

148 not a .22 pistol? Already own a Ruger MkIII.

Posted by: jakeman at January 26, 2014 11:29 AM (vH4YP)

149 I am asking for some advice about a carry gun from fellow morons. I sold off an odball gun and was going to use the money to buy a Ruger LCP for pocket carry. After all, that is what Rick Perry used to kill a coyote that was threatening his dog. Anyway, before money changed hands, I was shopping at various gun stores where somebody showed me a Ruger LC9. It is a little bit bigger than the LCP but it is 9mm instead of .380 and I can get all my fingers on the grip. It is exactly the same size as a Walther PPK/S. I laid them on top of each other. The LC9 is considerably lighter than the James Bond gun, though. Any way, yesterday I was out with money burning a hole in my pocket but everybody is either sold out of the LC9 or else they only have them with the laser which adds another hundred bucks. One guy showed me a SCCY (pronounced sky) pistol. It is also 9mm and also the size of a PPK although a little thicker because it holds 10 rounds in the magazine. I didn't buy it on the spot because I had never heard of them before. The internet reviews seem to indicate that they used to have a lot of problems but that they are now much improved and that their warranty and customer service are excellent. They are also selling for $10 less than the Kel-Tec A3AT. I just wanted to get some thoughts before I spend my money.

Posted by: Obnoxious A Hole at January 26, 2014 11:29 AM (TKk/U)

150 O. A. Hole- I think you'l find that the LC-9 is a little snappy for that small frame with 9mm. That's why I ordered it in 380.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 11:32 AM (4Mv1T)

151 I think Browning has been dining out on 'ol John M's" reputation for too long . The A5 and the High Power are the last good widely available products they made . imho . The sporting BAR ,the modern one , not the military one is real hit or miss . The over and unders are still nice .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 26, 2014 11:32 AM (WK8VM)

152 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 02:47 PM (celt+) Nice build Taro. For a nod to Israel you can add a tactical bottle opener. http://tinyurl.com/ljdqvyt

Posted by: RWC at January 26, 2014 11:34 AM (Q6HBD)

153 @142 Nice. I have a Marlin Ducks Unlimited back pack 22LR. It is accurate as hell. http://tinyurl.com/q76x9n5 Henry is expensive.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 26, 2014 11:34 AM (0FSuD)

154 Never do that. Drink too much booze with a credit card close by Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 03:29 PM (4Mv1T) ha, at least you remember.....nothing like a box showing up and then going "oh, yeah..."

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:34 AM (zELMe)

155 BCochran1981-- I had a Taurus that turned out to be very picky about what ammo it was fed. It would stovepipe on me every so often, cleaned it, had "the talk", even sent it back for inspection, nothing wrong with it. Needed a little extra oomph for extraction. Once I went to P+ ammo it was happier.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at January 26, 2014 11:34 AM (2buaQ)

156 151 Do you really want to be the one doing their beta testing?

Posted by: MAx at January 26, 2014 11:35 AM (b7yum)

157 151 Sometimes a little more weight is preferable due to less recoil. If the guns are the same size and weight is not a big issue, all other things considered such as price, preference, etc. it would be something to consider.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 11:36 AM (wG6KW)

158 Got a question for the Moron Horde.  I'm planning on buying a target pistol soon to start getting my 13 YO daughter used to guns.  I want a pistol that handles pellets (not just BBs, since accuracy seems to suck with those) and I'm indifferent between CO2 and pump.  I want it for a couple reasons - first, because she should be exposed to guns as a general principle of things. Second, because her mother would freak out if I got a "real" gun, so this is a good "camel's nose in the tent" strategy.  Finally, I just want to have the damn thing to plink cans (and varmints, and the occasional Liberal, but I repeat myself) just for the hell of it  it's a reminder of my childhood.

Any recommendations/thoughts/smartassed comments?

Posted by: RightWingProf at January 26, 2014 11:38 AM (RtR5I)

159 Has anyone seen "Capt. Phillips"? The whole time I was watching it, I could not help but think to myself, gee, give me any basic varmint rifle, even a .17, and I could keep these assholes from boarding. For want of the most elementary type of self defense, a freighter was captured. The whole premise is astounding. But then I had to remind myself that this idiocy actually happened.

Posted by: navybrat at January 26, 2014 11:38 AM (AW7Gr)

160 ha, at least you remember.....nothing like a box showing up and then going "oh, yeah..." Posted by: One Ping Only ------------------------------------- As I was sending the Paypal funds, I was saying to myself I had lost my mind. It's $200, and for a gun that stays in my safe. This morning I started posting other gun crap up for sale on the local gun forum to assuage my guilt.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 11:38 AM (4Mv1T)

161 148
84 Look at this guy changing out barrels himself. Toldya you could do it dude

-------------------

MAx, you must be the old DAve, right?

Yeah, it was fun. The hardest part was re-installing the gas tube - the bastard didn't want to worm its way through the receiver and barrel nut. Had to finagle it.

I used a Wheeler upper receiver block that has a nifty gas-tube locater insert (loved it), a Tapco multi-tool (I had to grind off some of the thick paint on the tool to get the barrel nut wrench to bite), and of course quality roll punches. I didn't bother with a handguard removal tool - I just braced the receiver and pulled on the delta ring with my hands while my wife pulled off the handguards.

After cannibalizing the MP15 Sport for this build and my middy build, all I have left is the receiver and the flash hider. So of course I need to build another upper! Since the Smith receiver doesn't have a dust cover or forward assist, that's a great reason to do a lightweight upper. I just ordered a lightweight profile barrel. It's an addiction now.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 11:39 AM (celt+)

162 >> I just wanted to get some thoughts before I spend my money. My little brother has an LC9 that I'd love to steal from him. I like it a lot.

Posted by: Andy at January 26, 2014 11:39 AM (vGQV1)

163 I own an AR-7. I love it. Good little shooter. And it floats. So get a bigger canoe.

Posted by: navybrat at January 26, 2014 11:42 AM (AW7Gr)

164 "For a nod to Israel you can add a tactical bottle opener.

http://tinyurl.com/ljdqvyt Posted by: RWC"

------------------

Would you believe I have one of those sitting in my Midway USA "wish list"? I think they're hilarious.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 11:42 AM (celt+)

165 165 I own an AR-7. I love it. Good little shooter. And it floats. So get a bigger canoe. Posted by: navybrat

--------------------

Dammit, you guys just reminded me that Cabelas had them on sale and I forget all about it. I don't need one, but I'm a sucker for folding/stowing/takedown guns.

Also, I believe James Bond shot down a helicopter with one in "From Russia with Love."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 11:47 AM (celt+)

166 On Gunsense Twitter, has report from cdc that says defensive gun use by civilians is common and results in lower numbers of injuries to those who use a gun for defensive purposes. Science. Don't be a denier.

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 11:47 AM (I6CHb)

167 Why does that photo of that Beretta Model 38 show two triggers?

Posted by: sr1911 at January 26, 2014 11:52 AM (+WFYA)

168 woohoo 3 more days till hpd lets me get my storm damn commies

Posted by: navycopjoe at January 26, 2014 11:53 AM (At8tV)

169 151 I am asking for some advice about a carry gun from fellow morons. I sold off an odball gun and was going to use the money to buy a Ruger LCP for pocket carry. I was shopping at various gun stores where somebody showed me a Ruger LC9. It is a little bit bigger than the LCP but it is 9mm instead of .380 and I can get all my fingers on the grip. This is the same process I went through -- wanted a small carry gun, saw a picture of the LCP, got interested, actually picked one up, found it didn't really fit my hand, tried the LC9 and found it was a much better fit. I wound up buying the LC9 and I'm happy I did. Even though it's small and fairly lightweight, it's not bad to shoot. I have a Colt Government Model in .380 and the LC9 recoil doesn't seem any worse than it. I recommend the LC9.

Posted by: Iowa Bob at January 26, 2014 11:53 AM (SREVj)

170

163 Hahaha funny how that works...  and the right tools, tho seemingly a significant investment at first, bring you to the realization that you can build any ar you want any way you want any time you want yourself.

So much better (and cheaper!!) than hotrodding cars and I think that's the closest comparison

Yeah I changed my nick.  Trying to think 10 years ahead these days

Posted by: MAx at January 26, 2014 11:55 AM (b7yum)

171 169 Why does that photo of that Beretta Model 38 show two triggers?

-------------------

One for semi, one for full auto.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 11:56 AM (celt+)

172 Why does that photo of that Beretta Model 38 show two triggers? ------------------- One for semi, one for full auto. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 03:56 PM (celt+) I'l no-one ever, never hit the wrong bang switch there....

Posted by: One Ping Only at January 26, 2014 11:58 AM (zELMe)

173 > 173 169 OK... It doesn't look like too much room for man-sized fingers to fit between them. Do you squeeze extra hard on the semi to get to auto?

Posted by: sr1911 at January 26, 2014 12:01 PM (+WFYA)

174 Another oddity of the Model 38 is that it ejects to the left. Perfect SMG for southpaws.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 12:04 PM (celt+)

175 "OK... It doesn't look like too much room for man-sized fingers to fit between them.

Do you squeeze extra hard on the semi to get to auto? Posted by: sr1911"
 
------------------

The front trigger in that photo is set back farther than normal. There's usually plenty of room (though a gloved finger might be a problem.)

The semi trigger is smooth and the auto trigger is grooved, so you can tell by touch which one you're on.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 12:08 PM (celt+)

176 Holy smokes, anybody see this? About a week old. 12 year old and 14 year old home, break in, takes CT cops 1.5 hours to respond. http://tinyurl.com/kttrk87

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 12:13 PM (I6CHb)

177 > 177 Thanks! Although somewhat odd, it makes much more sense than double-set triggers.

Posted by: sr1911 at January 26, 2014 12:14 PM (+WFYA)

178 178 break in, takes CT cops 1.5 hours to respond when seconds matter, the police are only 90 minutes away and goddamn it, the fool at the gunshop yesterday said the rifle range was closed...according to the newspaper its open

Posted by: navycopjoe at January 26, 2014 12:16 PM (At8tV)

179 53 Hypothetical situation. You own a gun with the magical microstamping technology. You go to the gun range and put a few hundred rounds through it. When you leave, you leave behind a few hundredspentshellswith your gun's 'signature' on it. The range owner is involved in a dispute with a business partner. He walks over to the lane you just used andpockets a few spent shells. Later that evening, he ventilates his business partner, with a revolver, in such a way that the bullets can't be recovered. (Solid jacketed rounds with the ocean as a backdrop, let's say.) He drops your spent casings beside the body then goes on his merry way. Your finger prints on the casings, your gun fired those casings. But I am certain the police and the courts will understand that is not proof you shot that guy. I would not touch one of those guns, if anyone actually makes one,if you paid me. Too fancy a plan. Just use a brass catcher for your own rounds, as stipulated earlier.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 26, 2014 12:27 PM (XO6WW)

180 Hey, been meaning to say this for weeks - Howdy, Richard McEnroe! Good to see a familiar face from the Tim Blair glory days. You have fine taste in blogs.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 12:32 PM (celt+)

181 My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a whoopin.' I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed. I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place. I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world. I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world. I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government. I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared. I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon. I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy. I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love. I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate... I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me. Police protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess. Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an "ass" whoopin'....

Posted by: traye at January 26, 2014 12:33 PM (I6CHb)

182 NJC, Did you ever ge a chance to shoot your wife's new Kimber?

Posted by: lindafell at January 26, 2014 12:35 PM (PGO8C)

183 Got a question for the Moron Horde. I'm planning on buying a target pistol soon to start getting my 13 YO daughter used to guns. I want a pistol that handles pellets (not just BBs, since accuracy seems to suck with those) and I'm indifferent between CO2 and pump. I want it for a couple reasons - first, because she should be exposed to guns as a general principle of things. Second, because her mother would freak out if I got a "real" gun, so this is a good "camel's nose in the tent" strategy. Finally, I just want to have the damn thing to plink cans (and varmints, and the occasional Liberal, but I repeat myself) just for the hell of it it's a reminder of my childhood.

Any recommendations/thoughts/smartassed comments?

Posted by: RightWingProf at January 26, 2014 03:38 PM (RtR5I)



RightWingProf, my CCW instructor had a "green gas" - powered pistol with the same weight and feel of a 1911, made in Taiwan, A-something ... Apex maybe?

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 12:41 PM (5i94q)

184 I got a savage axis 2 years ago, with factory shitty scope. paid 350.  This gun will put 4 .308's into a target the size of a quarter at 100 yards, all day long.  Of course I had to sight it in, could not hit paper at 50 yards as shipped.

Posted by: Stephana at January 26, 2014 12:41 PM (y67N4)

185 @151 Hold out for the Ruger LC....my wife has the .380 and it is a fine little carry piece. Oh, and bought it in TX in about 15 minutes...we left Cali last year. You can actually get a CHL here - not so in CA. God bless TX.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 26, 2014 12:41 PM (pb1ij)

186 Hey Steck, how you doing? When are you coming to visit again?

Posted by: lindafell at January 26, 2014 12:42 PM (PGO8C)

187 Linda!  Probably a few months.  (Just shot you an e-mail.)

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 12:46 PM (5i94q)

188 Appleseed news, for anyone looking for a new .22 rifle:  Marlin is making a special model specially tweaked to take to your Appleseed event, and the rifle includes a gift certificate for the event!



Ruger's new 50th-anniversary model (not in production yet IIRC) was designed by an Appleseeder as well.

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 12:49 PM (5i94q)

189 Got it Steck!

Posted by: lindafell at January 26, 2014 12:53 PM (PGO8C)

190 Navycopjoe, who's the better shot, you or T ?

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 12:55 PM (5i94q)

191 Horde, any opinions on Kahr for CCW ?

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 01:01 PM (5i94q)

192 Hey!

Did I mention that Mrs VIA is STILL waiting for the paperwork on her S&W?

But, am ordering the CMMG upper 16" M4 LE in 22lr tomorrow for her.
And looking at a Sig Mosquito for her to plink with as well.

Was considering the S&W MP in 22, but held one yesterday, and it felt like a toy.
And the Mosquito had a much nicer feel to it.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 01:06 PM (kFCo1)

193 I have a CM9, in retrospect I would have spent the extra for t.he PM9. It's small and light, easy to conceal. Shoots fine, a bit hard on the hands after a few mags. I'd rather shoot my Kimber but it's harder for me to conceal and much heavier

Posted by: lindafell at January 26, 2014 01:07 PM (PGO8C)

194 VIA, that's horrid that Mrs VIA is still waiting.

Too bad the .GOV is, well, being .GOV

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 01:08 PM (5i94q)

195 "RightWingProf, my CCW instructor had a "green gas" - powered pistol with the same weight and feel of a 1911, made in Taiwan, A-something ... Apex maybe?"

GreenGas is generally used by Airsoft platforms.

Some of them can't be distinguished between them and the real thing in your hand without actually looking.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 01:09 PM (kFCo1)

196 Linda, I tried wearing my Kimber for a day, ugh!

I'm looking at the PM45 for CCW. 

Any thoughts on the Springfield XD-S ?

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 01:11 PM (5i94q)

197
   2 questions.

  Why is it necessary to have government permission to exercise an inalienable right?  (2A for example here)

   Why are there not multiple lawsuits dealing with this right now?

Posted by: irongrampa at January 26, 2014 01:11 PM (SAMxH)

198 Steck I own a XDS .45 and love it. Depending on the clothes i wear i have carried it in the pocket of my shorts and it was not readily noticeable. Other times i carry it in an ankle holster in my boots with no trouble. I am planning on upgrading to an XDM .45 compact though as it holds a few more rounds in the mag and is only slightly larger than the XDS.

Posted by: cowboyup at January 26, 2014 01:19 PM (wG6KW)

199 Packing up my original Springfield XD 45 4" to take to my FFL to send to a (till-now) gunless friend.

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 01:48 PM (5i94q)

200 For those of you who haven't held a Savage lately, go to your dealer I ask to dryfire one of their models (most of them now I think) with the AccuTrigger.  Wow!

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 01:50 PM (5i94q)

201 I own a XDS .45 and love it. Depending on the clothes i wear i have carried it in the pocket of my shorts and it was not readily noticeable. Other times i carry it in an ankle holster in my boots with no trouble. I am planning on upgrading to an XDM .45 compact though as it holds a few more rounds in the mag and is only slightly larger than the XDS. Posted by: cowboyup ----------------------------------- I had the XDS and thought it was too heavy for pocket carry. Plus it had feed issues. Plus it had a recall. I traded for an XDm45compact. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but the range officer could shoot it well. I still sold it.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 01:52 PM (4Mv1T)

202 TR, I can't hit squat with this original XD, away it goes.  My friend wants it, it'll be a good first simple pistol for him.  Not the Rubik's cube of a 1911.

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 02:05 PM (5i94q)

203 Picked up a Savage in 30.06 at Bass Pro a few months ago. It has the accu-trigger and it really is nice. Mounted a scope and was drilling holes at 75 yards with no adjustments. Very accurate rifle.

Posted by: Pilot141 at January 26, 2014 02:20 PM (eb70/)

204 I collect milsurps for the history and most of them are 2-4 MOA rifles. The exceptions are my M-39 Finns, K-31 Swiss, 98/29 mauser, and Russsian sniper Mosin. I have some 22 trainers that are decent on accuracy. WZ78 and M69 Romanian. I hear them kimbers were good too but I don't have one yet. I ordered an old enfield trainer (.303 converted to a .22 trainer) but have not received it yet. I cant wait to take it to the range, where evereyone expects it to go boom, and it ends up sounding like a mosquito farting.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at January 26, 2014 02:27 PM (uYcVO)

205 I know you're all gone now and the thread is dead, but I went to the range today and busted fluffy's cherry good and proper.  97 rounds.  Gonna be hurtin' in the morning.  Grand fun and I also shot an AR and a 22. long and a couple little pocket guns (which I LOVED) and I saved my targets and gonna write "Peaches and Fluffy" on them. 

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2014 02:33 PM (8lmkt)

206 That's awesome Peaches!

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 02:34 PM (4Mv1T)

207 Mazel tov, Peaches!!

Posted by: speedster1 on the iPad at January 26, 2014 02:35 PM (noB3y)

208 Peaches, ya gotta post your targets

Wasn't it FUN ?!?!

Posted by: Steck at January 26, 2014 02:35 PM (5i94q)

209 Most all of my guns are good shootin' irons, but .....

A few years ago I scored a Harrington & Richardson M12 .22 match rifle when the CMP was selling them. I stripped and refinished the stock, added an Olympic front sight, an REG rear sight with Anschutz diopter, and (just for the future) a Vianni scope rail. At 25 yards, with a sandbag and my old eyes, I'll put 5 rounds in a target so that the holes touch.

I really like shooting .22 (I have 2 rifles and 2 pistols. The other rifle is a Mossberg M144US). A while ago the CMP was selling cases of Remington surplus .22 sealed for long-term storage (somewhere around $120 per case, if I remember right). Scored two of them.

Posted by: The Neon Madman at January 26, 2014 02:38 PM (iBNqN)

210 It was MAD fun!!!!  I counted the holes in my paper targets, there were 59 and since I blew off 15 or 20 on the metal targets (no plinks) and had 3 left when I quit, I think I did pretty good.  No 10's but some 9's and 8's and, well, the paper is quite small!  I was happy!  Still am!

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2014 02:39 PM (8lmkt)

211 It was MAD fun!!!! I counted the holes in my paper targets, there were 59 and since I blew off 15 or 20 on the metal targets (no plinks) and had 3 left when I quit, I think I did pretty good. No 10's but some 9's and 8's and, well, the paper is quite small! I was happy! Still am! Posted by: Peaches ---------------------------- Have you decided which defense boolets you're going to carry in you little cannon?

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 02:41 PM (4Mv1T)

212 Yay, Peaches! I knew there was a reason I was hanging around on a dead thread. Congratulations to you and Fluffy. May you have many more fun play dates.

Posted by: lizardbrain at January 26, 2014 02:46 PM (EXDjY)

213 TR, today I shot 97  .38 specials.  It'll take a 357 round but I'm not sure I need to do that to my wittle body.  Plus, my buddy gave  me an other box of 50 .38s, so I'm good.

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2014 02:47 PM (8lmkt)

214 Peaches- I am quite sure I am not the first to suggest this, but just in case, shoot .38 at the range, but feed little Fluffy some .357 JHP (jacketed hollow points) to carry for defense.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 02:49 PM (4Mv1T)

215 Peaches,
If you do carry, either use premium .38 Special or some downrated .357 Magnum.  Corbon makes a .38 +P round that duplicates the old Treasury round except it uses Barnes DPX Copper Hollow Points.  Expands extremely well and only some recoil even when shot in a snubbie.  Otherwise, if your .357 is a 4 inch or heavier, consider the old FBI load of 158 SWC Lead Hollow Point at +P.  Both Remington and Winchester make it.  For a very low recoil load, see if you can find Federal's 125 grain Nyclad in .38 Special. 

Favorite light loads for a .357 Magnum is the 100 Grain Powerball which has only a bit more recoil but smokes out of the barrel at 1400 fps or so.  Also the 125 Grain Remington Golden Saber is a good, slightly derated .357 Round.  Stay away from old police loads in .357 as they can be hard on some guns, have plenty of blast, and more recoil.  Remember, you will probably be shooting without hearing protection in an emergency--something that deafens and partially blinds you when firing might have substantial effects on firing accurate subsequent shots. 

Make sure that you fire enough .357s if you carry them to be comfortable with the blast and recoil.  If you flinch, then stick with the .38 specials. 

Posted by: wg at January 26, 2014 03:14 PM (A3VN4)

216 One last thing, the Savage 64 semi-automatic is an underrated, accurate, cheap .22 with ten round magazines.  Major issue is aftermarket stuff, however, it will do the dime sized group with the ammo that it likes. 

Posted by: wg at January 26, 2014 03:16 PM (A3VN4)

217 No carry, this is strictly home defense.  And, at least in CA, it's very hard to find the hollowpoints these days.  And, apparently, .22s are almost impossible to come by (not that I need 'em, but that was the scuttlebutt).

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2014 03:25 PM (8lmkt)

218 And, apparently, .22s are almost impossible to come by (not that I need 'em, but that was the scuttlebutt). Posted by: Peaches ---------------------- That's not peculiar to CA. Hard even here in NC

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 26, 2014 03:28 PM (4Mv1T)

219 Way to go Peaches.

How did you like the AR?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 03:35 PM (kFCo1)

220 the AR was surprisingly easy, although I heard later that the bff had his hands on my shoulders/back when I pulled.  it's possible that I was so beat up by then, it didn't register.  although I was told later at the pub that i'd be firing it a lot more times, next time.  did LOVE the laser scope.  want one for fluffy, so bad.

Posted by: Peaches at January 26, 2014 03:39 PM (8lmkt)

221 Glad to hear that you liked it.
AR's tend to have a surprisingly light felt recoil when compared to the rather loud muzzle blast.
If it felt easy to you, it probably actually was.

Can't wait to get Mrs VIA to try our "Big Fluffy"

Yes, she has named her 9mm  "Fluffy" as well.
So we call the AR "Big Fluffy".

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 03:45 PM (kFCo1)

222 Peaches, AR's are like tiramisu to the ladies. But without the calories.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 26, 2014 03:46 PM (celt+)

223 I love shooting AR's and I'm a girl. They just get heavy after a while. Congrats on getting Fluffy broken in Peaches!!!😃

Posted by: lindafell at January 26, 2014 04:07 PM (PGO8C)

224 "194 Hey!

Did I mention that Mrs VIA is STILL waiting for the paperwork on her SW?

But, am ordering the CMMG upper 16" M4 LE in 22lr tomorrow for her.
And looking at a Sig Mosquito for her to plink with as well.

Was considering the SW MP in 22, but held one yesterday, and it felt like a toy.
And the Mosquito had a much nicer feel to it.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 05:06 PM (kFCo1)"



I got a Mosquito for my daughter.  It feels nice and it has the same controls as a big kids SIG.   It is absolutely reliable with CCI Mini-Mags and absolutely unreliable with anything else.  If that sort of extreme ammunition sensitivity is acceptable, go ahead and get one.  It is a nice shooter.  On the other hand, it is not really a .22 pistol.  It is a CCI .22 Mini-Mag pistol.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 26, 2014 04:10 PM (BcCwi)

225 "I got a Mosquito for my daughter. It feels nice and it has the same controls as a big kids SIG. It is absolutely reliable with CCI Mini-Mags and absolutely unreliable with anything else. If that sort of extreme ammunition sensitivity is acceptable, go ahead and get one. It is a nice shooter. On the other hand, it is not really a .22 pistol. It is a CCI .22 Mini-Mag pistol."

Reading a bunch of reviews, I am noticing that they do suffer a CCI dependency issue.

I still have to get the CMMG upper first, so it gives me a little bit of time to ponder it.

But it did feel good in my hand.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 26, 2014 04:14 PM (kFCo1)

226 Thanks everybody for recommendations.  I am leaning towards the SCCY pistol.  It comes with two 10 round magazines and is almost a hundred dollars less than the Ruger.  Unloaded it is two ounces lighter than the Ruger but I suppose that the extra bullets might raise the weight up over that of the Ruger.


I have noticed that a lot of the reviews mention how unpleasantly flippy the LC9 is while reviews of the SCCY tend to mention that recoil is not as bad as expected. 


Reviews of both mention the long DAO trigger pull but people seem to find the SCCY trigger lighter than the actual measured weight.  When I dry fired it in the store, I was very pleased with it.  While there is nothing wrong with the LC9, it seems that the SCCY is a somewhat better gun for less money.  If there are reliability issues, I guess I will get to find out just how good is there customer service.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 26, 2014 04:45 PM (BcCwi)

227 I bought a Marlin 795 and it's been a very nifty little .22LR The "good" 25 round magazines for it seem expensive to me. I'm not wild about the plastic trigger ring. But over all I like it a lot. When it's empty the bolt stays open. It's very light. The stock sites are pretty cheap though. And I would have preferred a Papoose if I could find one. But for $150 it's great.

Posted by: cackfinger at January 26, 2014 05:38 PM (OsCtd)

228 So a question for the horde: I have a Remington 742 Woodmaster in 30.06, an absolutely gorgeous rifle that I picked up at a gun show. There is a problem however. Though it is a semi-automatic rifle, it does not fire reliably. Out of its 4-round magazine, it'll only fire the first and third rounds, though the second and fourth rounds will cycle into the chamber and will work perfectly fine once reloaded back into the weapon. My guess is that it's something to do with the firing pin. I'm somewhat torn. On the one hand, it is a very beautiful rifle, which makes me lean towards bringing it into a gunsmith to figure out the problem and fix it, but on the other hand, if it costs more to repair it than I actually paid for the rifle/is unable to be repaired, I'd almost rather get a new rifle. Thoughts?

Posted by: FGCU_James at January 26, 2014 06:29 PM (if2JC)

229 cackfinger, put a set of Tech Sights on it. The only thing I don't like about my 795 is the synthetic stock, I prefer wood, but it's a great shooting little rifle.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 26, 2014 06:31 PM (xa1/W)

230 Thoughts?

Posted by: FGCU_James at January 26, 2014 10:29 PM (if2JC)




It almost sounds like it's not going all the way back into battery on the follow-up shots. Take it apart and clean it thoroughly and see if that helps, if it doesn't take it to the gunsmith and have it checked out. It may have a weak recoil spring that isn't seating the bolt all the way. Disclaimer: I am not familiar with that firearm in particular.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 26, 2014 06:35 PM (xa1/W)

231 I'm somewhat torn. On the one hand, it is a very beautiful rifle, which makes me lean towards bringing it into a gunsmith to figure out the problem and fix it, but on the other hand, if it costs more to repair it than I actually paid for the rifle/is unable to be repaired, I'd almost rather get a new rifle.

Thoughts?

Posted by: FGCU_James at January 26, 2014 10:29 PM (if2JC)

 

If I like a rifle or a handgun, I'll spend serious money to get them up and running, but that's just me. I don't have a gun collection, per se, since only one of them has any real collector investment value, but I make sure they're all good shooters. For example, I just bought a 100-year-old Colt Army Special in .41 Long Colt. It's an old, well-used beater of a revolver by the looks of it, but I intend to put some work into it, load my own ammo for it (since .41 Long Colt is ludicrously expensive), and shoot the hell out of it for as long as it lasts. Before all is said and done, it's certain I'm going to be spending more on it than it's worth, but I'll have fun doing it.

Posted by: troyriser at January 26, 2014 06:39 PM (ptcFO)

232 Does that Remington 742 use a detachable magazine? The mag is the first thing to check with feeding issues. Try another mag if you can. The fact that the misfires occur on alternate shots may mean a feed-lip problem on one side if it's a double-column magazine.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 27, 2014 12:13 AM (celt+)

233 Peaches, your BF probably had his hand on your shoulders due to your stance. I've noticed a lot of people who are new to firearms tend to lean way back to counterbalance their arms being out in front of them. It's not a very stable stance. If you're holding a heavy object up to your shoulder, you may have been leaning way back from your waist and he was concerned that you might overbalance. As you found, you can definitely handle the recoil - you just need more range time. I'm glad you had fun! The best group I ever shot was when I was working up hand loads for my wife's Savage 110. We bought this used from a shop in GA and we know nearly nothing about it. But it's a tack driver with the right loads. I stumbled across my current recipe when I put five shots into a 0.66" hole at 100 yards. She loves it and now wants to compete!

Posted by: Darkmage at January 27, 2014 05:57 AM (T5FtP)

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